424: Kid Politics - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #424 | January 13, 2012 424: Kid Politics Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 424 集 | 2012 年 1 月 13 日 424：儿童政治 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass This is an amazing documentary called Please Vote for Me about an election in a third grade class by a filmmaker named Weijun Chen.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这是一部精彩的纪录片，名为《请为我投票》，讲述的是一位名叫陈伟军的电影制片人在三年级班级的一次选举。
It takes place in a city called Wuhan in central China.
它发生在中国中部一个叫武汉的城市。
The eight year olds are told that they are going to vote to decide who is going to be the class monitor.
八岁的孩子们被告知，他们将投票决定谁将担任班长。
It's the first election in their school ever.
这是他们学校有史以来的第一次选举。
None of them has ever witnessed or taken part in anything like this at all.
他们中没有人亲眼目睹或参与过这样的事情。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] "Isn't this new?" their teacher asks them.
[说中文]“这不是新鲜事吗？”他们的老师问他们。
And one of the three candidates, a little butterball of a kid named Cheng Cheng, turns out to be a natural politician.
三位候选人中的一位，名叫程程的小屁孩，竟然是一位天生的政治家。
With no adults prompting him, he immediately starts button-holing his classmates and making promises.
在没有大人提示的情况下，他立即开始对同学们进行扣扣并做出承诺。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] "Vote for me," he tells a little boy, "I'll make you steady committee officer." Quickly the parents get involved, coaching the kids, helping write their speeches.
[说中文]“投我一票，”他对一个小男孩说，“我会让你成为稳定的委员会官员。”很快，家长们就参与进来，指导孩子们，帮助他们写演讲稿。
One dad who's with the police department basically wins the election for his son by arranging for a class trip on the city's monorail, which the kids love, and by giving his son little presents to hand out to every kid in the class moments before they vote.
一位在警察局工作的父亲基本上为他的儿子赢得了选举，他安排班级乘坐孩子们喜欢的城市单轨列车旅行，并在投票前给儿子一些小礼物，让他们分发给班上的每个孩子。
But the kids own instincts are really interesting to watch too.
但孩子们自己的直觉也很有趣。
There's this scene where one of the candidates-- a girl named Xiaofei is about to do a flute recital as part of the competition.
有这样一个场景，其中一位候选人——一个名叫小菲的女孩即将进行长笛演奏，作为比赛的一部分。
Her two friends are going to dance a ballet with red scarves around her as she plays.
当她表演时，她的两个朋友将围着她跳芭蕾舞。
Before she starts, though, Cheng Cheng tells a friend, "After Xiaofei performs, you must shout, that's terrible, got it?"
不过在开始之前，程程对朋友说：“小飞表演完后，你一定要大喊，太可怕了，明白吗？”
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Which results in a whole group of kids, including Cheng Cheng and Luo Lei-- Luo Lei's the other candidate in this race-- taunting her, "Xiaofei, Xiaofei, slowest eater.
[说中文] 结果一群孩子，包括程程和罗雷——罗雷是本次竞选的另一位候选人——嘲笑她：“小飞，小飞，吃得最慢。
Xiaofei, Xiaofei, rotten gossip."
小飞，小飞，烂八卦。”
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Xiaofei looks around confused-- nothing like this has ever happened.
[说中文] 小飞困惑地环顾四周——从来没有发生过这样的事情。
And she's little, right, her feelings are right on her face.
而且她还小，对吧，她的感情都表现在脸上。
She blinks, she looks over to her teacher for help, she looks down and winces and starts crying.
她眨了眨眼，向老师寻求帮助，她低下头，皱起眉头，开始哭泣。
Another little girl in pink, at her desk, she starts crying too, witnessing this.
另一个粉红色的小女孩，在她的办公桌前，看到这一幕，她也开始哭泣。
The teacher calls a break, ushers Xiaofei from the room.
老师宣布休息，把小飞从教室里引出来。
Cheng Cheng then goes to Xiaofei in the hallway and say, "I apologize to you for Luo Lei." As if Luo Lei was the one who organized the chanting, not him.
程程走到走廊里对小飞说道：“我为罗蕾向你道歉。”就好像组织诵经的人是罗雷，而不是他。
Then he gets Luo Lei to apologize.
然后他让罗雷道歉。
And then, not only is Xiaofei crying, both the little boys, they both burst into tears also.
然后，不只是小飞哭了，两个小男孩，也都哭了起来。
Remember, they're all just eight years old.
请记住，他们都只有八岁。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] The camera moves down the aisle of the classroom, and we see lots of other kids are crying as well.
[说中文] 镜头沿着教室的过道移动，我们看到很多其他孩子也在哭泣。
It's like they accidentally invented negative campaigning, on their own, in their own classroom, tried it out, and then realized just how mean and wrong it is.
就好像他们在自己的教室里无意中发明了负面运动，尝试了一下，然后意识到这是多么卑鄙和错误。
Something adults seem to forget sometimes.
成年人有时似乎会忘记一些事情。
Today on our show, we have stories of children thrust into the world of politics-- a world that was really built for adults with thicker skins.
今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了孩子们被推入政治世界的故事——这个世界实际上是为脸皮厚的成年人建立的。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our show in three acts, these children take up presidential politics, global warming, and in our last act, they're put in charge of their own school-- make all the rules, including discipline.
我们的演出分三幕，这些孩子们讨论了总统政治、全球变暖，在最后一幕中，他们被安排负责自己的学校——制定所有规则，包括纪律。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Trickle Down History.
第一幕，传承历史。
Now we move to a group of teachers in California, teachers who are sending their students out to understand a very American kind of politics-- presidential politics.
现在我们转向加利福尼亚州的一群教师，他们派学生出去了解一种非常美国式的政治——总统政治。
Starlee Kine tells the story.
斯塔莉·凯恩讲述了这个故事。
When I was in high school, my class took a trip to the Richard Nixon Library.
当我上高中时，我的班级参观了理查德·尼克松图书馆。
I remember putting on a pair of large headphones that whispered snippets of the Watergate recordings into my ears.
我记得戴上一副大耳机，将水门事件的录音片段低声传入耳中。
I remember being shown into this little carpeted room.
我记得被带进这个铺着地毯的小房间。
Our teacher tells we're in luck, there's a very special guest there for us that day.
我们的老师说我们很幸运，那天我们有一位非常特别的客人。
We hope it's someone good.
我们希望这是一个好人。
A man with a flattop haircut enters.
一个留着平头发型的男人走了进来。
His name is H.R.
他的名字是 H.R.
Haldeman.
霍尔德曼。
He has something important to tell us.
他有重要的事情要告诉我们。
We hope he wants to tell us that he is not the real special guest.
我们希望他想告诉我们他不是真正的特邀嘉宾。
We have no idea who he is.
我们不知道他是谁。
If your history's a little foggy, H.R.
如果你的历史有点模糊，H.R.
Haldeman was President Nixon's Chief of Staff.
霍尔德曼是尼克松总统的幕僚长。
He was a pal and a confidante.
他是一个朋友和一个红颜知己。
When recordings of Nixon in the White House were released, there were hours and hours of recorded conversation between the two of them on the phone, like a couple of mean girls plotting how to take over the rest of the school.
当尼克松在白宫的录音被公布时，他们两人在电话里进行了长达数小时的录音对话，就像几个卑鄙的女孩密谋如何接管学校的其他人一样。
After Watergate broke, it became clear that Haldeman was involved, and he turned in his resignation.
水门事件爆发后，霍尔德曼显然参与其中，他递交了辞呈。
It was a big enough deal that Nixon went on TV to announce it.
这是一个足够大的交易，尼克松在电视上宣布了它。
Today in one of the most difficult decisions of my presidency, I accepted the resignations of two of my closest associates in the White House-- Bob Haldeman, John Erlichman.
今天，我接受了白宫两位最亲密的同事鲍勃·霍尔德曼和约翰·埃利希曼的辞职，这是我总统任期内最困难的决定之一。
Nixon threw his good friend H.R.
尼克松抛弃了他的好朋友 H.R.
Haldeman under the bus.
霍尔德曼在公共汽车下。
Haldeman was convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and perjury.
霍尔德曼被判犯有共谋罪、妨碍司法公正罪和伪证罪。
He served 18 months in prison, passing the time by working as a chemist in the prison's sewage treatment plant.
他在监狱里服刑18个月，靠在监狱污水处理厂当化学家打发时间。
Once he was released, he got involved in various business ventures.
出狱后，他开始涉足各种商业活动。
He became the owner of eight Sizzler steak houses.
他成为八家 Sizzler 牛排馆的老板。
He receded into normal life, apparently only to resurface for the occasional public appearance in front of a room full of high school students.
他回归了正常的生活，显然只是偶尔在一屋子高中生面前公开露面才重新出现。
That day in the library, we didn't know about any of Haldeman's history.
那天在图书馆，我们对霍尔德曼的历史一无所知。
I, for one, would have appreciated being told about the Sizzler steak house part up front.
就我个人而言，如果能提前告诉我 Sizzler 牛排馆的部分，我会很感激的。
I remember clearly that Haldeman seemed like this sad, broken man.
我清楚地记得霍尔德曼看起来是一个悲伤、破碎的人。
He wasn't wearing a suit, he didn't seem like someone with any authority, someone who was a part of history.
他没有穿西装，看起来不像有任何权威的人，也不像历史的一部分。
It seemed clear that Haldeman was there that day to get us to stand in his shoes and see Watergate from his perspective.
很明显，霍尔德曼那天在那里是为了让我们站在他的立场上，从他的角度看待水门事件。
It was a very freaky Friday kind of moment-- see how hard it is to be an adult for a day.
这是一个非常奇怪的星期五时刻——看看作为一个成年人一天有多难。
And if you'll allow me this tangent, I was reminded of all this recently when I heard about something similar happening now in Simi Valley, California.
如果你允许我切题的话，最近当我听说加利福尼亚州西米谷正在发生类似的事情时，我想起了这一切。
That's where the library is for California's other Republican president, Ronald Reagan.
这就是加州另一位共和党总统罗纳德·里根的图书馆所在地。
On a sunny Friday morning, I watch a class of fifth graders climb down off their school bus in their especially nice field trip clothes.
在一个阳光明媚的星期五早上，我看到一群五年级学生穿着特别漂亮的实地考察服装从校车上下来。
They're here because the library does these reenactments where the students actually get to play Ronald Reagan and his various staff members-- stand in Reagan's shoes for the day.
他们来到这里是因为图书馆进行了这些重演，学生们实际上可以扮演罗纳德·里根和他的各种工作人员——当天站在里根的立场上。
The kids file inside where a cheerful woman who works for the library stands in front of a large map with countries either red or blue.
孩子们列队进去，一位在图书馆工作的开朗的女士站在一张大地图前，地图上标有红色或蓝色的国家。
Who wants to tell me about the map?
谁想告诉我地图的事？
What do you know about the map?
关于地图你了解多少？
Yes?
是的？
All of the red countries are the Communist countries.
所有红色国家都是共产主义国家。
Excellent.
出色的。
Very good.
非常好。
Is this a map of what it looks like today?
这是今天的地图吗？
No?
不？
When is this map?
这地图是什么时候的？
What're we looking at?
我们在看什么？
What time period?
什么时间段？
Yes, sir?
是吗，先生？
The 1980s.
20 世纪 80 年代。
Tour Guide Very good.
导游很好。
Actually 1983.
其实是1983年。
And in 1983 who was president?
1983 年谁担任总统？
Ronald Reagan.
罗纳德·里根。
Starlee Kine It's obvious the kids have been studying Ronald Reagan all week, and in particular, the invasion of Grenada.
斯塔莉·凯恩 很明显，孩子们整个星期都在研究罗纳德·里根，特别是对格林纳达的入侵。
One of the great things about tagging around on an elementary school field trip is you re-learn all the history lessons that you'd not only forgotten, but question whether you ever learned in the first place.
跟随小学实地考察旅行的一大好处是，你可以重新学习所有你不仅忘记了的历史课程，而且会质疑自己是否曾经学过。
Do you remember anything at all about the invasion of Grenada?
您还记得有关入侵格林纳达的任何事情吗？
Don't worry, they'll explain to us.
别担心，他们会向我们解释的。
In 1983, Grenada is what color?
1983年的格林纳达是什么颜色？
Everyone tell me?
大家告诉我吗？
Red.
红色的。
Tour Guide Very good, it's red.
导游很好，是红色的。
That means it's a Communist country.
这意味着它是一个共产主义国家。
The kids go on to talk about the rebels who overthrew the Grenadian government in 1983 and about the group of 800 hundred or so American medical students who were stranded there and who became instant pawns in US Cold War politics.
孩子们继续谈论 1983 年推翻格林纳达政府的叛军，以及被困在那里并立即成为美国冷战政治的棋子的 80 万名左右美国医学生。
But why do we really care about what's going on in Grenada?
但为什么我们真正关心格林纳达正在发生的事情呢？
There's a specific reason why we're so concerned-- specifically, why President Reagan was concerned.
我们如此担心是有具体原因的——具体来说，就是里根总统如此担心的原因。
Yes, sir?
是吗，先生？
Because they might have joined armies and taken over the US.
因为他们可能已经参军并接管了美国。
OK, so we have Cuba, we have Grenada, and there's also Nicaragua at the time that are all Communist, and they're kind of close to the United States.
好吧，我们有古巴，我们有格林纳达，还有当时的尼加拉瓜，它们都是共产主义国家，而且它们与美国有些接近。
So it could be that it causes a problem for the United States if they were to come to us and wanted to maybe make us Communist, right?
因此，如果美国来找我们并想让我们成为共产主义者，这可能会给美国带来问题，对吗？
That's right.
这是正确的。
We were afraid Cuba, Grenada, and Nicaragua, with their collective population of 13 million would come over, defeat the largest military in the world, and turn us all Communist.
我们担心拥有 1300 万人口的古巴、格林纳达和尼加拉瓜会过来，击败世界上最强大的军队，让我们所有人都成为共产主义者。
And then, just in case there's any doubt in the kids minds about how terrible this would be, a staff member gives them a quick primer on the evils of Communism.
然后，为了防止孩子们对这有多可怕有任何疑问，一名工作人员会给他们快速介绍共产主义的罪恶。
Very good.
非常好。
In a Communist country, you have limited rights and freedoms.
在共产主义国家，你的权利和自由是有限的。
If you wanted to go and get a job and earn a living, could you keep your money?
如果你想出去工作谋生，你能保留你的钱吗？
Could you?
您可以...吗？
Who has all the money in a Communist country?
在共产主义国家谁拥有所有的钱？
What do you think?
你怎么认为？
The government.
政府。
Tour Guide The government, very good.
导游政府，很好。
Now if you wanted to buy some land, or you wanted to buy a home, you wanted to buy property, could you do that in a Communist country?
现在，如果你想买一些土地，或者你想买一套房子，你想购买房产，你可以在共产主义国家这样做吗？
Who owns all the property?
全部财产归谁所有？
Everyone?
每个人？
The reason for all this studying up is that the kids are going to reenact the invasion.
所有这些学习的原因是孩子们要重演入侵。
The class is divided up, with one third playing members of the Oval Office, one third playing the press, and one third playing the military.
班级被划分，三分之一扮演椭圆形办公室成员，三分之一扮演媒体，三分之一扮演军队。
And one kid will play Ronald Reagan himself.
一个孩子将扮演罗纳德·里根本人。
The staff begin to hand out badges designating which kid is what.
工作人员开始分发徽章，标明哪个孩子是什么。
The military commanders are next, followed by the press.
接下来是军事指挥官，然后是新闻界。
The naming of one little girl as White House Bureau Chief prompts a classmate to mutter, "I knew it," under his breath.
任命一名小女孩为白宫局长，一名同学小声嘀咕：“我就知道”。
I ask him why, and he tells me that one time when they were in kindergarten, she played a news anchor, so-- his voice trails off.
我问他为什么，他告诉我，有一次他们在幼儿园的时候，她扮演一名新闻主播，所以——他的声音逐渐减弱。
Without fail, the kids ooh and aah over every position that is called out.
毫无疑问，孩子们对每一个被叫出的位置都发出惊叹声。
The kids are ushered to a room with three closed doors.
孩子们被带到一个三扇紧闭的门的房间。
The library's really fancy.
图书馆真的很别致。
Flat screen TVs flash on, and actors playing nondescript officials explain the kids' mission, and the potential consequences of their actions.
平板电视开始闪烁，演员们扮演不起眼的官员，解释孩子们的使命，以及他们行为的潜在后果。
When you walk through these doors, you will no longer be students.
当你走进这些门时，你就不再是学生了。
You will make history.
你将创造历史。
Lives are at stake.
生命危在旦夕。
Adult staff members are not here to answer questions or help you.
成年工作人员不会在这里回答问题或帮助您。
The responsibility is entirely yours.
责任完全由你承担。
President Reagan, please report to the Oval Office and find your desk.
里根总统，请到椭圆形办公室报到并找到您的办公桌。
The three doors swing open in unison revealing three different sets-- the Oval Office, the press room, and the command center of a battleship.
三扇门同时打开，露出三个不同的房间：椭圆形办公室、新闻发布室和战舰指挥中心。
Everyone goes to their assigned room.
每个人都去自己指定的房间。
The battleship is amazing-- it's dimly lit with lots of flashing lights and a gadget with toggle switches in front of every chair.
这艘战舰太棒了——灯光昏暗，有很多闪光灯，每张椅子前面都有一个带有拨动开关的小工具。
And if there's anything a kid loves, it's toggle switches.
如果说有什么是孩子喜欢的，那就是拨动开关。
Oh my Jesus.
哦天哪。
Starlee Kine The press corps is led through another door.
斯塔莉·凯恩 记者团被引导穿过另一扇门。
A staff member flat out lies to them by telling them that the press room is every bit as exciting as a battleship.
一名工作人员公然对他们撒谎，告诉他们新闻发布室就像战舰一样令人兴奋。
It looks like a hotel conference room.
看起来就像是酒店的会议室。
The best selling point the staff can muster is that the room is large.
工作人员可以聚集的最大卖点是房间很大。
In fact, the press room is bigger than the press room in the White House, so that's pretty exciting.
事实上，新闻发布室比白宫的新闻发布室还要大，所以这非常令人兴奋。
The President and his cabinet head into a replica of the Reagan era Oval Office, complete with a jar of jelly beans on the desk, which the kids are instructed to not even think about eating.
总统和他的内阁走进里根时代椭圆形办公室的复制品，桌子上放着一罐软心豆粒糖，孩子们被告知不要想吃它。
Secretary Weinberger.
国务卿温伯格。
Starlee Kine Today's President Reagan is a blond fifth grader with an athletic build.
斯塔莉·凯恩 今天的里根总统是一位金发碧眼的五年级学生，身材健壮。
My guess is he's a popular kid, but a benevolent one.
我猜他是一个受欢迎的孩子，但也是一个仁慈的孩子。
He seems to take being named leader of the free world in stride, as though it's the sort of thing that happens to him often.
他似乎对被任命为自由世界领袖泰然自若，就好像这种事情经常发生在他身上一样。
Here's how it all works.
这就是它的运作方式。
The invasion is broken down into a series of A or B options.
入侵被分解为一系列 A 或 B 选项。
For instance, A, have diplomatic talks with Grenada, or B, evacuate the medical students.
比如A，与格林纳达进行外交谈判，或者B，撤离医学生。
A, evacuate the medical students, or B, overthrow the Communist government.
A，撤离医学生，或者B，推翻共产党政府。
Each kid gets a vote, but President Reagan has final say.
每个孩子都有投票权，但里根总统有最终决定权。
Well, both of the options are-- well, I considered both of the options, but I think a smaller, faster force-- let's say the smaller, faster force is over powered, we have very small chances.
嗯，这两种选择都是——嗯，我考虑了这两种选择，但我认为更小、更快的力量——比方说更小、更快的力量被压倒了，我们的机会很小。
And if we have a big army coming there, then we have better chances and it will take quicker, so I go with A.
如果我们有一支大军前往那里，那么我们就有更好的机会，而且时间会更快，所以我选择A。
The President inputs his answer into a dramatic red phone located right next to the jelly bean jar on his desk.
总统将他的答案输入到他办公桌上果冻豆罐旁边的一部引人注目的红色电话中。
Before they start, the kids were told that there aren't right or wrong answers, but the whole thing's rigged to make what Ronald Reagan did in 1983 look like the most appealing option.
在开始之前，孩子们被告知答案没有正确或错误之分，但整个事情都经过精心设计，让罗纳德·里根 (Ronald Reagan) 在 1983 年所做的事情看起来是最有吸引力的选择。
Each time the kids choose to do what he did, a bell goes off as though they've won a tropical vacation in Grenada, instead of an invasion.
每当孩子们选择做他所做的事情时，铃声就会响起，就好像他们赢得了格林纳达的热带假期，而不是入侵。
Nicely done, that is another correct response according to President Reagan.
干得好，这是里根总统的另一个正确回应。
Excellent work, President Reagan.
干得好，里根总统。
Ordering a large invasion ensured that we would get the job done.
下令大规模入侵确保我们能够完成任务。
Again and again, President Reagan makes the same decisions as, well, President Reagan.
里根总统一次又一次做出与里根总统相同的决定。
Everything is going great until there's a news flash.
一切都很顺利，直到有新闻报道。
Apparently the kids in the press room have been hard at work.
显然新闻发布室里的孩子们一直在努力工作。
An actress playing a reporter appears on the screen.
一位扮演记者的女演员出现在屏幕上。
All right, I'm not sure what this is, let's take a look.
好吧，我不知道这是什么，让我们看一下。
Confidential sources tell this reporter that two US aircraft carriers headed to Lebanon have been rerouted to Grenada.
知情人士告诉记者，两艘前往黎巴嫩的美国航母已改道前往格林纳达。
Wait a minute, how did they get this information?
等一下，他们是怎么得到这些信息的？
President Reagan, have you talked to the press?
里根总统，您接受过媒体采访吗？
Not yet.
还没有。
Tour Guide Any of you talk to the press?
导游 你们有人接受媒体采访吗？
No. Tour Guide This is top secret information.
否。 导游 这是绝密信息。
I'm not sure how the press got this story, but this is going to cause some problems for us.
我不确定媒体是如何得到这个故事的，但这会给我们带来一些问题。
Here's how it went down.
事情是这样的。
In real life 1983, the press was somehow tipped off about the story in Grenada.
在 1983 年的现实生活中，媒体不知何故获悉了格林纳达的故事。
President Reagan and the military had been planning a surprise attack.
里根总统和军方一直在计划发动突然袭击。
And so when the news got out, they had to decide whether to go ahead with the invasion, even though Grenada would be waiting for them, or to abort.
因此，当消息传出时，他们必须决定是继续入侵（尽管格林纳达正在等待他们）还是中止。
President Reagan, again, like his predecessor President Reagan, decides to stick with the plan.
里根总统再次像他的前任总统里根一样决定坚持该计划。
The red phone dings.
红色电话铃声响起。
The US goes to war for three days.
美国开战三天。
After it's over, the staff does a little debrief with everyone.
结束后，工作人员向大家做了一些汇报。
They talk with the kids about what happened, pointing out how it was especially bad when they lost the element of surprise.
他们与孩子们谈论发生的事情，并指出当他们失去惊喜时，情况尤其糟糕。
And how did we lose the element of surprise?
我们是如何失去惊喜的呢？
What happened?
发生了什么？
Yes, sir?
是吗，先生？
Reporters somehow figured out the information, which was top secret, and ruined the surprise.
记者不知何故弄清楚了这个绝密信息，破坏了这个惊喜。
All right, so President Reagan, now that we know it was the reporters-- we saw the report-- what are you going to do to them for releasing this information?
好吧，里根总统，现在我们知道是记者干的——我们看到了报道——你打算对他们做什么来释放这些信息？
The staff ask the kids if the press had a right to tell the public.
工作人员问孩子们媒体是否有权告诉公众。
They go over the nuts and bolts of what freedom of the press means, and decide that what the reporters did was legal.
他们仔细研究了新闻自由的具体含义，并认为记者的行为是合法的。
They can't have any consequences for what they did.
他们不能为自己的所作所为承担任何后果。
However, just because they have the freedoms, do all of you think that they should have used that freedom today?
但是，仅仅因为他们有自由，你们认为他们今天就应该利用这个自由吗？
No. Tour Guide Now we did lose some military lives.
不，导游现在我们确实失去了一些军人生命。
I'm here to inform you that we lost 19 soldiers in the fighting.
我来这里是为了通知您，我们在战斗中损失了 19 名士兵。
Now we can't directly say that's because of the press, but did it help that they released the story?
现在我们不能直接说这是因为媒体，但是他们发布这个故事有帮助吗？
No. Tour Guide No, it certainly didn't help.
不，导游不，这当然没有帮助。
No one pointed out the those 19 soldiers might have lived if the Oval Office had done things differently, or that invading countries is a dangerous business and casualties tend to come with the territory.
没有人指出，如果椭圆形办公室采取不同的做法，这 19 名士兵可能会活下来，或者入侵国家是一件危险的事情，伤亡往往会随着领土而来。
Instead, one by one, you can see it on the kids' faces-- how it could have been perfect if only it wasn't for the press.
相反，你可以在孩子们的脸上一一看到这一点——如果不是媒体的话，它多么完美。
And then the staff tells the kids they're going to rejoin their classmates, the ones that were in the other room playing reporters.
然后工作人员告诉孩子们，他们要重新加入他们的同学，那些在另一个房间里扮演记者的同学。
Now it is time for me take you into the press room for a press conference.
现在我带你们去新闻发布室参加新闻发布会。
That means you're going to see the press.
这意味着你会见媒体。
I ask you to be polite, but point out to them that maybe their actions had some consequences today.
我要求你们保持礼貌，但要向他们指出，也许他们今天的行为会产生一些后果。
Come on in.
进来吧。
Did you guys hear our story?
大家有听过我们的故事吗？
Did you like our story?
你喜欢我们的故事吗？
No. Adult Staff Member 2 So you guys saw our story, but you don't like it?
否。 成人工作人员 2 那么你们看过我们的故事，但不喜欢它？
No. You destroyed our plan.
不，你破坏了我们的计划。
Adult Staff Member 2 We destroyed your plan?
成人工作人员2 我们破坏了你的计划？
Yes!
是的！
Starlee Kine Everyone is trying to get in as much glaring and as much head shaking as possible.
Starlee Kine 每个人都试图尽可能多地瞪视和摇头。
The phrase element of surprise and 19 dead comes up again, and again, and again.
“意外因素”和“19人死亡”这句话一次又一次地出现。
The kids seem genuinely upset.
孩子们似乎真的很沮丧。
I don't understand, what plan did we destroy?
我不明白，我们破坏了什么计划？
One representative.
代表一名。
Yes?
是的？
Well, the reason why we really didn't want it to go out was because if they didn't know, we would still have the 19, and we would still have-- it just, it ruined our plan our action.
好吧，我们真的不想让它消失的原因是因为如果他们不知道，我们仍然会有 19，我们仍然会有 - 只是，它破坏了我们的计划和行动。
It's a strange experience watching little kids struggling to become adults before their time.
看着小孩子努力提前长大，这是一种奇怪的经历。
They were too young to understand exactly what had just happened, but old enough to feel guilt about the blood on their hands.
他们还太年轻，无法准确理解刚刚发生的事情，但也足够老了，可以为自己手上的鲜血感到内疚。
It surely must have been the first time in their lives that they'd been accused of causing a person's death, and yet they took to it so naturally.
这肯定是他们一生中第一次被指控造成他人死亡，但他们却如此自然地接受了。
I know Reagan isn't Nixon and Grenada isn't Watergate.
我知道里根不是尼克松，格林纳达也不是水门事件。
And that difference is particularly stark when you've been to both their respective libraries like I have.
当你像我一样去过他们各自的图书馆时，这种差异尤其明显。
In Reagan's, he's celebrated as a winner.
在里根时代，他被视为胜利者。
In Nixon's, the tone is apologetic.
尼克松的语气是歉意的。
But both libraries are saying the same thing-- see it my way.
但两个图书馆都在说同样的事情——以我的方式看待。
I recently called up the Nixon Library to ask them about the day my class met H.R.
我最近打电话给尼克松图书馆，询问他们关于我的班级遇到 H.R.
Haldeman.
霍尔德曼。
They dug up an old program and they also sent me a list of questions the adults gave us to ask him.
他们挖出了一个旧程序，还给我发了一份大人给我们问他的问题清单。
They might as well have been lifted straight off the transcript of the Watergate hearings.
它们还不如直接从水门事件听证会的笔录中删除。
Why didn't you burn the White House tapes?
你为什么不烧掉白宫的录音带？
How do you think the 18 and a half minute gap occurred?
您认为18分半钟的差距是如何发生的？
Why did your critics want you out?
为什么你的批评者要你离开？
Are you sorry?
对不起吗？
From the second Haldeman opened his mouth, we could tell he was angry, and that this wasn't like any field trip we'd ever been on before.
从霍尔德曼一开口，我们就看出他很生气，而且这与我们之前进行过的任何实地考察都不一样。
He hadn't prepared a speech or anything like that.
他没有准备演讲或类似的东西。
He would start barking his answers at us before we had even finished getting the questions out.
在我们还没把问题问完之前，他就开始对我们咆哮他的答案。
An LA Times article about the visit quotes him as saying, "For Pete's sake, don't believe what you read in history books just because of the fact that those words are printed."
《洛杉矶时报》一篇关于这次访问的文章引用了他的话说：“看在皮特的份上，不要仅仅因为这些文字被印刷就相信你在历史书中读到的内容。”
He told us he was improperly convicted and never had a chance during his trial because of the so-called judge.
他告诉我们，由于所谓的法官，他被不当定罪，并且在审判期间从未有机会。
He kept reminding us of all the good Nixon had done, that we shouldn't be mad at Nixon for Haldeman's downfall-- it wasn't his fault.
他不断提醒我们尼克松所做的一切好事，我们不应该因为霍尔德曼的垮台而对尼克松生气——这不是他的错。
Even the proximity of where he was standing felt off.
就连他站的地方也离他很近，也让人感觉不舒服。
He was too vulnerable and close, as though he was practically sitting down on the floor with us.
他太脆弱了，也太亲密了，就好像他几乎和我们一起坐在地板上。
Despite his gruffness, I do actually remember feeling really sorry for him.
尽管他很粗暴，但我确实记得我对他感到非常抱歉。
He seemed to care more about what we thought about him than what our teachers or any other adults did.
他似乎更关心我们对他的看法，而不是我们的老师或任何其他成年人的看法。
They had already formed their opinions.
他们已经形成了自己的意见。
He meant nothing to us, and that meant something to him.
他对我们来说毫无意义，但这对他来说却很重要。
It meant someday, when we told our kids about Bob Haldeman, history wouldn't have to win just because those words are printed.
这意味着有一天，当我们告诉我们的孩子有关鲍勃·霍尔德曼的事情时，历史不会仅仅因为这些话被印出来而获胜。
And it worked.
它奏效了。
I liked him.
我喜欢他。
I didn't think he was innocent, but I felt bad he wasn't.
我不认为他是无辜的，但我为他不是无辜的而感到难过。
Different school groups cycled through the Reagan Library throughout the day.
不同的学校团体全天在里根图书馆骑自行车。
I have to wait until the last one before I get to see what happens when a kid tries to alter the script.
我必须等到最后一部才能看到当一个孩子试图改变剧本时会发生什么。
Secretary Baker?
贝克秘书？
Starlee Kine That kid is William Miller, a skinny boy with glasses who's playing Ronald Reagan this time.
斯塔莉·凯恩那个孩子是威廉·米勒，一个戴着眼镜的瘦男孩，这次扮演罗纳德·里根。
The way his suit jacket hangs on him reminds me of the kind of movie where the kid is turned into an adult, and then back into a kid.
他身上挂着的西装外套让我想起那种电影，孩子变成了成年人，然后又变回了孩子。
William is quite and thoughtful.
威廉很安静，也很体贴。
Each time he is called upon to make his decision, he adds his own special touch.
每次他被要求做出决定时，他都会添加自己的特殊风格。
He insists on consulting with the little girl playing Vice President Bush.
他坚持要咨询扮演布什副总统的小女孩。
It's hard not to see it as half sound political strategy on the President's part and half crush.
很难不将其视为总统的一半明智的政治策略和一半的粉碎。
And Vice President, may I please ask you a quick question?
副总统，我可以问你一个简单的问题吗？
Why do you personally think that it should be B?
为什么你个人认为应该是B呢？
OK.
好的。
Starlee Kine This group tackles the same questions as the first group-- whether to discuss or evacuate, and then whether to evacuate or invade.
Starlee Kine 这个小组解决与第一组相同的问题——是讨论还是撤离，然后是撤离还是入侵。
As the theatrics start to pick up, William looks worried.
随着戏剧性的进展，威廉看起来很担心。
He quietly reads the library's instructions to himself.
他静静地给自己读图书馆的说明。
The decision is not to be taken lightly.
这个决定不是轻易做出的。
Using military force for any reason is risky and may cost innocent lives.
出于任何原因使用军事力量都是有风险的，并可能导致无辜者丧生。
There's a beeping sound like a time bomb is about to go off.
一声“嘟嘟”的声音就像定时炸弹即将爆炸。
President Reagan again consults his VP, shooting a look at the clock.
里根总统再次咨询他的副总统，并看了一眼时钟。
Well, I think I'm going to go with vote A, and the reason for that is if we do go to war with Grenada, there's also the threat that other Communist countries like the Soviet Union could also come in and help to try to defeat us, and I don't think that that's necessary, to have that.
嗯，我想我会投 A 票，原因是如果我们真的与格林纳达开战，还有苏联等其他共产主义国家也可能介入并帮助试图击败我们的威胁，我认为没有必要这样做。
That sensible argument he just made about the Soviet Union wasn't fed to him by an adult-- he came up with it on his own.
他刚刚提出的有关苏联的合理论点并不是由成年人灌输给他的——他自己想出来的。
And it's at this point that William goes off script.
正是在这一点上，威廉脱离了剧本。
He goes against the real Reagan.
他反对真正的里根。
He decides not to invade, to just get the Americans out.
他决定不入侵，只是把美国人赶出去。
Feeling good about his choice, President Reagan picks up the red phone and punches in A.
里根总统对自己的选择感到满意，拿起红色电话，拨通了 A。
The sound that comes out of the phone is one that anyone who ever watched a game show on TV will immediately recognize as the sound of being wrong.
任何看过电视上的游戏节目的人都会立即从手机中发出的声音认出这是错误的声音。
The US government will only overthrow the government of another nation if it believes that nation poses a direct, specific threat to American safety.
只有当美国政府认为另一个国家对美国安全构成直接、具体的威胁时，美国政府才会推翻该国政府。
In 1983, President Reagan decided that Grenada presented such a threat, and ordered a full scale military operation to replace Grenada's hostile Communist government with a friendly democracy, a government similar to our own.
1983年，里根总统认定格林纳达构成了这样的威胁，并下令采取全面军事行动，以友好的民主政府（类似于我们自己的政府）取代格林纳达敌对的共产党政府。
President Reagan soldiers on, despite now knowing that he'll be overtaken by the tide of history, no matter what he does.
里根总统继续前进，尽管现在他知道，无论他做什么，他都会被历史的潮流所淹没。
Soon the same fake reporter comes on again, saying that the press has leaked the story.
很快，同一个假记者又出现了，说媒体泄露了这个故事。
The kids rush to the President's desk.
孩子们冲向总统办公桌。
Abort the mission.
中止任务。
Abort the mission.
中止任务。
Abort the mission.
中止任务。
Abort, abort, abort, abort.
中止，中止，中止，中止。
Everyone says abort.
大家都说放弃。
William agrees.
威廉同意。
They should abort the mission.
他们应该放弃任务。
He figures they can go back to the original plan of just evacuating the students, and then invade later when they've gotten the element of surprise back.
他认为他们可以回到最初的计划，即疏散学生，然后在他们获得惊喜后再入侵。
He warily inputs his answer into the red phone.
他小心翼翼地将答案输入到红色手机中。
OK, let's see what President Reagan did in 1983.
好吧，让我们看看里根总统在 1983 年做了什么。
Let's see, it sounds like they continued on the mission.
让我们看看，听起来他们似乎仍在继续执行任务。
Sometimes in the heat of the moment, even the best leader can lose sight of what's most important.
有时，即使是最好的领导者，在情绪激动的时候也会忽视最重要的事情。
In this case, the safety of the American students, and the freedom of the Grenadian people.
在这种情况下，关系到美国学生的安全，关系到格林纳达人民的自由。
President Reagan looks stricken.
里根总统看起来很震惊。
His coat seems bigger than ever.
他的外套看起来比以前更大了。
Again the class files out.
班级再次列队出发。
Again it's the press kids versus everyone else.
这又是新闻界的孩子们与其他人之间的较量。
Again there's the chaos and blame.
再次出现混乱和指责。
All through the library's lobby are clusters of ten year olds fighting to the death.
整个图书馆的大厅里都是一群群十岁的孩子在打架。
You killed people.
你杀了人。
You killed 19 soldiers.
你杀死了 19 名士兵。
How would you like to be killed?
你想怎样被杀？
President Reagan is slowly getting swallowed up by the crowd.
里根总统慢慢地被人群吞没了。
Adults can sometimes put on this big show, letting you make the decisions, letting you be in charge, when what they really want is to convince you that their way is best, that they're not bad people, that the decisions they made were the right ones, and that if you were in their position, you'd have done it the same way.
成年人有时会上演一场大戏，让你做决定，让你负责，而他们真正想要的是让你相信他们的方式是最好的，他们不是坏人，他们做出的决定是正确的，如果你处于他们的位置，你也会这样做。
They'd really like you to believe that, maybe so they can believe it too.
他们真的希望你相信这一点，也许这样他们也能相信这一点。
Starlee Kine, lives in Los Angeles.
斯塔莉·凯恩（Starlee Kine）住在洛杉矶。
Coming up, children vote to decide all the rules in their school, including can they play video games while at school?
接下来，孩子们将投票决定学校的所有规则，包括他们可以在学校玩电子游戏吗？
What they decide in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台他们会在一分钟内做出决定。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, kid politics.
今天的节目是儿童政治。
Stories or what happens when adults-- usually educators-- put kids in the hot seat and tell them to grapple with adult political decisions.
故事或当成年人（通常是教育工作者）让孩子们陷入困境并告诉他们应对成年人的政治决定时会发生什么。
We've arrived at act two of our show.
我们已经到了演出的第二幕了。
Act Two, Climates Change, People Don't.
第二幕，气候变化，人们却没有。
I met this really great, really smart kid who's into politics this summer.
今年夏天我遇到了一个非常优秀、非常聪明的孩子，他投身于政治。
All summer I was watching a lot of Glenn Beck, and I went to that rally that he had in Washington D.C. And so I'm at the rally and I'm wandering around, and I'm talking to people in the crowd.
整个夏天我看了很多格伦·贝克的比赛，我去了他在华盛顿特区举行的集会。所以我在集会上四处闲逛，与人群中的人们交谈。
How old are you guys?
你们几岁了？
Erin Gustafson I'm 14.
艾琳·古斯塔夫森 我 14 岁。
16.
16.
Ira Glass Did you want to be here or are you being dragged along?
Ira Glass：你是想来这里还是被拖着走？
No, I wanted to be here.
不，我想来这里。
I'm the one who watches Glenn Beck every day at five, so.
我是每天五点钟看格伦·贝克的人，所以。
That's Erin Gustafson, high school freshman, with her older sister, Sarah, and her mom, Michelle.
这是艾琳·古斯塔夫森，高中一年级学生，和她的姐姐莎拉以及她的妈妈米歇尔。
They've driven up from the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia for the rally.
他们从弗吉尼亚州的谢南多厄山谷开车来参加集会。
Why do you like Glenn Beck so much?
你为什么这么喜欢格伦·贝克？
What do you like about his show?
你喜欢他的节目什么？
Well, for me it's like a jumping off point.
嗯，对我来说这就像一个起点。
And I know that it's an opinion show, but I will hear what he says and the history behind it, and then from there I can do my own research.
我知道这是一个观点节目，但我会听听他所说的以及背后的历史，然后我可以做自己的研究。
We talked about the kinds of things that you talk about at a Glenn Beck rally.
我们谈论了你在格伦贝克集会上谈论的事情。
is the President a socialist?
总统是社会主义者吗？
The Gustafsons don't think he is.
古斯塔夫森一家不认为他是。
Are they alarmed over the direction the country's going in?
他们对国家的发展方向感到震惊吗？
They definitely are.
他们绝对是。
They are free market, small government types-- against saving big banks, against the deficit.
他们是自由市场、小政府类型——反对拯救大银行、反对赤字。
And then I got on the subject of global warming with 14 year old Erin.
然后我和 14 岁的艾琳谈论了全球变暖的话题。
Global warming is propaganda.
全球变暖是宣传。
That's what I believe.
这就是我所相信的。
Do they teach you that in school?
他们在学校教你这个吗？
About global warming, I mean?
我的意思是关于全球变暖？
Yes, they teach you about global warming.
是的，他们教你有关全球变暖的知识。
Not openly.
不公开。
I try and keep it respectful.
我尽力保持尊重。
And I will answer just by, this is what the book says, I may not agree with it, but this is what the book says, so this is what I have to answer.
我会简单地回答，这是书上说的，我可能不同意，但这就是书上说的，所以这就是我必须回答的。
The number of Americans who believe that global warming is real has fallen, and the decline is dramatic.
相信全球变暖确实存在的美国人数量已经下降，而且下降幅度非常大。
Back in 2006, according to a Pew Research Center study, 79% of the public said there's solid evidence that the Earth is getting warmer.
早在 2006 年，根据皮尤研究中心的一项研究，79% 的公众表示，有确凿的证据表明地球正在变暖。
In just three years, the number fell to 57%.
短短三年内，这一数字下降至57%。
Other polls show a similar drop.
其他民意调查也显示出类似的下降。
So climate change activists and scientists are trying to turn it around in a bunch of different ways, and part of that fight is in the classroom.
因此，气候变化活动人士和科学家正试图通过多种不同的方式扭转这一局面，而这场斗争的一部分就是在课堂上进行的。
They want to win over kids Erin's age.
他们想赢得与艾琳同龄的孩子们的青睐。
The National Science Foundation and NASA are each developing curricula to teach climate change in schools.
美国国家科学基金会和美国宇航局都在开发在学校教授气候变化的课程。
Meanwhile, on the other side of the fight, bills have been introduced in Kentucky, Oklahoma, and passed in South Dakota-- Texas, by the way, has this too-- urging teachers to teach both sides in the climate change debate.
与此同时，在这场斗争的另一边，肯塔基州、俄克拉荷马州提出了法案，并在南达科他州通过了法案——顺便说一句，德克萨斯州也有这样的法案——敦促教师在气候变化辩论中向双方进行教学。
The South Dakota bill declared carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, but rather a highly beneficial ingredient for all plant life.
南达科他州法案宣布二氧化碳不是污染物，而是对所有植物生命非常有益的成分。
And with that fight for the hearts and minds of people like Erin and all of her peers in mind, we booked Erin into a studio last week at public radio station WMRA in Virginia.
考虑到为像艾琳和她所有同龄人这样的人的心灵和思想而进行的斗争，我们上周为艾琳预订了弗吉尼亚州公共广播电台 WMRA 的一个工作室。
One, two three.
一二三。
Hey, Erin?
嘿，艾琳？
Erin Gustafson Hello.
艾琳·古斯塔夫森 你好。
Hi.
你好。
How are you?
你好吗？
Erin Gustafson I'm wonderful, and yourself?
艾琳·古斯塔夫森 我很棒，你呢？
At the same time that we had her, we had in a studio in Colorado, at public radio station KGHU, a scientist named Roberta Johnson who develops curricula as Executive Director of the National Earth Science Teacher Association, and who studies the climate at the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
在我们邀请她的同时，我们在科罗拉多州公共广播电台 KGHU 的一个工作室里邀请了一位名叫罗伯塔·约翰逊的科学家，她作为国家地球科学教师协会的执行主任开发课程，并在国家大气研究中心研究气候。
Hi Erin.
嗨艾琳。
Erin Gustafson Hello, Dr. Johnson.
艾琳·古斯塔夫森 你好，约翰逊博士。
Nice to meet you.
很高兴见到你。
Ira Glass Dr. Johnson and Erin Gustafson agreed to come into the studio to do a little experiment that we proposed to both of them.
艾拉·格拉斯·约翰逊博士和艾琳·古斯塔夫森同意进入工作室做一个我们向他们两人提议的小实验。
Dr. Johnson would run through the very best material that she thinks teachers have to convince students that global warming is real.
约翰逊博士会用她认为教师必须使用的最好材料来说服学生全球变暖是真实的。
And Erin would tell her and us if it was convincing, if it won her over.
艾琳会告诉她和我们这是否令人信服，是否赢得了她的支持。
Was there anything a scientist could say to convince a kid who's already skeptical?
科学家能说些什么来说服一个已经持怀疑态度的孩子吗？
Up until now, Erin says, her schools haven't devoted a lot of time to teaching climate change, and it's not really a big subject for Glenn Beck, she says, so most of what she knows is based in her own curiosity, reading she's done poking around the internet.
艾琳说，到目前为止，她的学校还没有投入大量时间来教授气候变化，这对格伦·贝克来说并不是什么大课题，所以她所知道的大部分内容都是基于她自己的好奇心，她在互联网上查了一下资料。
They both actually were pretty psyched for this.
他们俩实际上对此都很兴奋。
So Dr. Johnson, we can't give you a full semester here on the radio to walk through all of the arguments one might do, but you're going to lay out some of this case for Erin.
所以约翰逊博士，我们不能给你一个完整学期的时间来在广播中讨论人们可能会做的所有论点，但你将为艾琳阐述一些这个案例。
And I understand you're going to break this down into two parts.
我知道你要把它分成两部分。
So can you walk through the first part of your presentation?
您能浏览一下演示文稿的第一部分吗？
Well, I think the first part is that when we look at measurements taken around the world, we have an overwhelming amount of evidence that the climate is warming.
嗯，我认为第一部分是，当我们查看世界各地的测量结果时，我们有大量证据表明气候正在变暖。
And we know that from the increase in temperature that we observe in the land, the oceans, and the sea.
我们从陆地、海洋和海洋中观察到的温度升高得知这一点。
We know that ice and snow cover are decreasing.
我们知道冰雪覆盖正在减少。
Permafrost is thawing.
永久冻土正在融化。
Sea level is rising.
海平面正在上升。
All of those things are indicators of a warming climate.
所有这些都是气候变暖的指标。
Now, then the question becomes, how do we know that that has an association with carbon dioxide and greenhouse gases?
现在的问题是，我们如何知道这与二氧化碳和温室气体有关？
And the other piece of that evidence is that we also know that carbon dioxide is increasing in the atmosphere dramatically.
另一个证据是我们还知道大气中的二氧化碳正在急剧增加。
OK, so that's the first part of your presentation, what's the second part?
好的，这就是您演讲的第一部分，第二部分是什么？
I understand it has to do with something called ice cores?
我知道这与一种叫做冰芯的东西有关？
Yeah, so there's these really cool ice cores-- cool, I meant as a pun, actually-- they have drilled these things now for decades in a number of different places-- there's got to be at least 20 or 30 of them that have been drilled in the Antarctic or in Greenland.
是的，所以有这些非常酷的冰芯——酷，我的意思是双关语，实际上——几十年来，他们已经在许多不同的地方钻探了这些东西——其中至少有 20 或 30 个冰芯是在南极洲或格陵兰岛钻探的。
These things are like two or three inches across, and they drill these things down, and down, and down.
这些东西大约有两三英寸宽，他们将这些东西向下、向下、向下钻。
And each ice core records a nice annual record of the temperature, the atmospheric composition.
每个冰芯都记录了年度温度和大气成分的良好记录。
It gathers dust, it gathers volcanic debris.
它聚集灰尘，聚集火山碎片。
So they take these things out, they take them back to laboratories, and they can analyze them.
所以他们把这些东西拿出来，带回实验室，然后进行分析。
And those records show very clearly temperature and CO2 have been very closely correlated for over 420,000 years.
这些记录非常清楚地表明，42 万年来，温度和二氧化碳一直密切相关。
So as temperature goes up, CO2 goes up.
因此，随着温度升高，二氧化碳含量也会升高。
And what we know is that the overall oscillation in temperature and CO2--
我们知道的是温度和二氧化碳的整体振荡——
OK, at this point Dr. Johnson got into some details that both Erin and I took awhile to grasp, so I'm going to just summarize for you to move things along.
好的，此时约翰逊博士已经介绍了一些艾琳和我花了一段时间才掌握的细节，所以我将总结一下，以便您继续推进。
Basically, Roberta Johnson was saying we can explain the way temperature and carbon dioxide rose and fell over 420,000 years by looking at how the Earth was tilting-- its position relative to the sun.
基本上，罗伯塔·约翰逊是说，我们可以通过观察地球如何倾斜（即地球相对于太阳的位置）来解释 42 万年来温度和二氧化碳升降的方式。
When the Earth would wobble towards the sun, there'd be more heat and carbon dioxide.
当地球向太阳摆动时，就会产生更多的热量和二氧化碳。
When the Earth would wobble away a little bit, less heat, less carbon dioxide.
当地球稍微摆动时，热量就会减少，二氧化碳就会减少。
It all matched up until now.
到目前为止一切都匹配。
Just based on the Earth's tilt and orientation, the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere should now be a lot lower than it is.
仅根据地球的倾斜和方向，现在大气中二氧化碳的含量应该比实际情况低很多。
We are 35% higher than we should be.
我们比应有的水平高出了 35%。
What's the cause?
原因是什么？
The logical culprit, she says, is human beings and the machines we've made that spew carbon dioxide-- CO2.
她说，逻辑上的罪魁祸首是人类和我们制造的排放二氧化碳的机器。
You can analyze the CO2 itself, and that's what scientists have done.
你可以分析二氧化碳本身，这就是科学家所做的。
And they've found that the carbon in the carbon dioxide gas is lighter in its isotopic ratio than it should be if it was from a natural source.
他们发现二氧化碳气体中的碳的同位素比比天然来源的碳要轻。
So what that tells us is that there's a direct tie from the CO2 we're seeing to a fossil fuel source.
这告诉我们，我们看到的二氧化碳与化石燃料来源有直接联系。
OK, so I feel like some of this has gotten actually a little bit technical.
好的，所以我觉得其中一些实际上已经变得有点技术性了。
So Erin, before I ask you if any of this is convincing, I want to ask you, do you have questions about any of this?
所以艾琳，在我问你这些是否令人信服之前，我想问你，你对此有疑问吗？
I think I understand most of it, so I'm going to go with no.
我想我明白了大部分，所以我不会。
OK, that's the way I feel too, I feel like I understand most of it.
好吧，我也是这么觉得，我觉得我明白了大部分。
And so, Erin, do you find any of this convincing?
那么，艾琳，你觉得这些有说服力吗？
Not particularly, not any more than what I've previously read.
不特别，不比我以前读过的更多。
How come?
怎么会？
Erin Gustafson Because I feel like there are still holes in the theory.
艾琳·古斯塔夫森 因为我觉得这个理论仍然存在漏洞。
Like the arguments that the highest temperatures that they've discovered have been in the 12th century.
就像他们发现的最高温度是在 12 世纪的论点一样。
And that the satellite images that have taken, that have shown the shrinking of the ice caps, were not entirely correct.
所拍摄的显示冰盖缩小的卫星图像并不完全正确。
And that they've taken other pictures that show that there isn't nearly as much melting as they thought.
他们还拍摄了其他照片，显示融化程度并没有他们想象的那么多。
What Erin's talking about are arguments against global warming that you read.
艾琳所说的是你读过的反对全球变暖的论点。
That the Earth got really warm back in the 12th century, and it wasn't greenhouse gasses causing that-- maybe that's just happening again.
早在 12 世纪，地球就变得非常温暖，而且并不是温室气体造成的——也许这种情况正在再次发生。
And that satellite photos showed Arctic ice melting in one set of photos, but in another, didn't look so bad.
卫星照片在一组照片中显示北极冰层正在融化，但在另一组照片中，情况看起来并没有那么糟糕。
She also asked, why have winters been colder and snowfall greater, if climate change is already, supposedly, taking effect.
她还问，如果气候变化据称已经发生，为什么冬天更冷、降雪量更大。
And she very delicately asked Dr. Johnson about Climategate.
她非常微妙地向约翰逊博士询问了气候门的情况。
Well, if we've learned so much about-- I'm sorry if this comes off as, with the way I started that, as disrespectful-- but if we've learned so much about this--
好吧，如果我们已经了解了这么多——我很抱歉，如果按照我开始的方式，这看起来是不尊重的——但如果我们已经了解了这么多——
One by one, Dr. Johnson answered each of these questions.
约翰逊博士一一回答了这些问题。
Yes, it got warmer in the 12th century, but for reasons that we can name, and it was nowhere near as warm as today.
是的，12 世纪天气变暖了，但由于我们可以说出的原因，它远没有今天那么温暖。
Yes, it might be colder in any given winter, but that is just the randomness of weather, that's not the climate.
是的，任何一个冬天都可能会更冷，但这只是天气的随机性，而不是气候。
Yes, there's more snow now, because a warmer planet means more water vapor trapped in the atmosphere, which means storms of all kinds become more intense including snow.
是的，现在雪更多了，因为地球变暖意味着大气中滞留的水蒸气更多，这意味着包括雪在内的各种风暴变得更加猛烈。
Yes, climate scientists said some things in their stolen emails that might seem at first to be damning, but several different commissions working independently all verified that they did not tamper with the data or the peer review process.
是的，气候科学家在被盗的电子邮件中说了一些乍一看似乎很糟糕的事情，但几个独立工作的不同委员会都证实他们没有篡改数据或同行评审过程。
Yes, the Arctic ice in photos might fluctuate, but the overall trend is clear.
是的，照片中的北极冰可能会波动，但总体趋势是明确的。
So, Erin, this explanation of what happened in the satellite pictures, do you find that credible, convincing, does this change your picture of it-- what the doctor is saying?
那么，艾琳，卫星图片中所发生的事情的这种解释，你觉得可信、令人信服吗？这会改变你对医生所说的看法吗？
I can see where there would then be discrepancies between the sets of pictures, but, meh.
我可以看到这组图片之间会存在差异，但是，呃。
You don't sound won over.
听起来你并没有被说服。
Erin Gustafson I wouldn't say that I'm won over, it's just it opens more questions.
艾琳·古斯塔夫森（Erin Gustafson） 我不会说我被说服了，只是它提出了更多问题。
Erin, do you feel like any of the arguments that Dr. Johnson makes-- about the 12th century, about these satellite pictures, on any of these subjects-- is the way that you hear, you feel like, well, sure, that's a perfectly good argument, but you're just getting one side of the picture, and that there's another side too?
艾琳，你是否觉得约翰逊博士提出的任何论点——关于 12 世纪，关于这些卫星图片，关于任何这些主题——是你听到的方式，你觉得，嗯，当然，这是一个非常好的论点，但你只是得到了图片的一面，而且还有另一面？
Yes, that is pretty close.
是的，那非常接近。
And it's like, I get that climate does flux and change, and that we as people affect the climate.
就像，我知道气候确实在变化和变化，而我们人类会影响气候。
But it's all kind of back and forth, because you can find plenty of examples to go with global warming, or climate change, and then a lot to go against it.
但这都是来来回回的，因为你可以找到很多支持全球变暖或气候变化的例子，也可以找到很多反对它的例子。
You feel you feel you're caught up in a kind of a he said, she said argument?
你觉得自己陷入了一种他说、她说的争论中吗？
Kind of, yes.
有点，是的。
Ira Glass But Dr. Johnson, from your point of view, you don't feel like this is something where, OK, there's two sides to this argument.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：但是约翰逊博士，从您的角度来看，您并不觉得这个争论有两个方面。
You feel like the data is in and we have an answer now?
您觉得数据已经输入并且我们现在有了答案吗？
Yes, I do.
是的，我愿意。
My point is that this is really not a question of belief.
我的观点是，这确实不是一个信仰问题。
This is a question of science.
这是一个科学问题。
We look at the evidence, we use our scientific knowledge, and we come to science based conclusions.
我们查看证据，运用科学知识，并得出基于科学的结论。
Hey, Erin, is there anything that any science teacher could say that could convince you of this?
嘿，艾琳，有什么科学老师可以说的话可以让你相信这一点吗？
Quite possibly.
很有可能。
If I saw both sides of the argument, arguing for both for and against global warming-- see those two arguments, completely side by side, laid out, then maybe I could see how it would be true.
如果我看到争论的双方，支持和反对全球变暖——看到这两个论点完全并排地摆出来，那么也许我就能明白它是如何正确的。
Or even, more definitely, how it isn't true.
或者更确切地说，这不是真的。
I just personally feel like this is kind of almost like evolution.
我个人觉得这有点像进化。
Where you'll have people who will say that, yes, this is fact, and this is what happened.
人们会说，是的，这是事实，这就是发生的事情。
And then there'll be other people who will say, this is theory, it could go one way, it could go the other.
然后会有其他人说，这是理论，它可能会朝一个方向发展，也可能会朝另一个方向发展。
And then there'll be the people who say that this is completely untrue.
然后就会有人说这完全是不真实的。
Dr. Johnson, can I ask you-- I feel like the question this seems like it points to from your side of this-- and I hope you feel like you can answer this honestly-- is do you think it's hopeless to reach certain people once they're already skeptical?
约翰逊博士，我可以问你吗——我觉得这个问题似乎从你的角度来看——我希望你觉得你能诚实地回答这个问题——你是否认为一旦某些人已经持怀疑态度，就没有希望接触到他们了？
Once someone is skeptical of this and they see it as a he said, she said argument, is it possible to ever get through to them?
一旦有人对此表示怀疑，并且他们将其视为“他说，她说”的争论，是否有可能说服他们？
Well, we're certainly going to keep trying.
嗯，我们当然会继续努力。
I think there's only so far you can go.
我想你能走的也只有这么多了。
I do tend to think that unfortunately-- you know, there's a spectrum of belief-- I have to remain hopeful that when people have open minds and are equipped to analyze evidence, that they'll come to rational conclusions.
我确实倾向于认为不幸的是——你知道，有一系列的信念——我必须保持希望，当人们拥有开放的思想并有能力分析证据时，他们会得出理性的结论。
[MUSIC - "FREEDOM OF CHOICE" BY DEVO]
[音乐 - DEVO 的“自由选择”]
Act Three, Minor Authorities.
第三幕，次要权威。
What if you ran a school and you had the kids vote and decide on all the rules?
如果您经营一所学校并让孩子们投票并决定所有规则怎么办？
They decide on all the discipline, decide which classes should be taught, what would happen if you don't show up for class, can you nap in school.
他们决定所有的纪律，决定应该教授哪些课程，如果你不来上课会发生什么，你可以在学校午睡吗？
Not to be harsh, but what if the inmates ran the asylum?
无意严厉，但如果囚犯管理收容所怎么办？
Well, there's a movement in alternative education called the free school movement.
嗯，另类教育中有一场运动，称为免费学校运动。
Typically there are no courses.
通常没有课程。
Each kid studies what he or she wants independently.
每个孩子独立地学习他或她想要的东西。
At The Brooklyn Free School, for instance, a teacher can offer a class, or the kids can vote for some class they want created.
例如，在布鲁克林免费学校，老师可以开设课程，孩子们也可以投票选择他们想要创建的课程。
There are no tests, no homework, there aren't even grade levels-- you know, first grade, second grade, all that.
没有考试，没有家庭作业，甚至没有年级——你知道，一年级，二年级，所有这些。
And the kids decide everything about how the school is run.
孩子们决定学校如何运作的一切。
If this sounds nuts, you should know that since The Brooklyn Free School was started seven years ago, nearly all its graduates have gone on to normal accredited colleges.
如果这听起来很疯狂，那么您应该知道，自从布鲁克林免费学校七年前创办以来，几乎所有毕业生都进入了正规认可的大学。
We wanted to see what happens when the kids make all the decisions, so we headed over to The Brooklyn Free School.
我们想看看孩子们做出所有决定时会发生什么，所以我们前往布鲁克林免费学校。
First agenda item is This American Life.
第一个议程项目是《美国生活》。
Naturally, to record at the school, we had to get permission from the authorities there-- the kids themselves.
当然，要在学校录音，我们必须获得当地当局——孩子们自己的许可。
The proposal is that This American Life project goes forward.
建议继续推进“This American Life”项目。
I third.
我第三。
Ira Glass Glad we got that six year old on our side there.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）很高兴我们有那个六岁的孩子站在我们这边。
We're in the school gym, it's about 50 kids, which is the whole school, age four to 19.
我们在学校体育馆，大约有 50 个孩子，这是整个学校的，年龄在 4 岁到 19 岁之间。
A mix of kids who didn't do well in other schools, some behavior problem kids, some kids of professionals and crunchy parents.
其中包括在其他学校表现不佳的孩子、一些有行为问题的孩子、一些专业人士的孩子和脾气暴躁的父母。
It's actually very diverse.
它实际上非常多样化。
There's a short discussion about whether they want to have us in the school.
我们就他们是否想让我们进入学校进行了简短的讨论。
I don't mean to be a pain about it.
我无意为此感到痛苦。
I don't know, I just don't really see the whole point of being on the radio if nothing really exciting is going to happen.
我不知道，如果没有什么真正令人兴奋的事情发生，我真的不明白参加广播的全部意义。
OK, all for?
好吧，一切都是为了？
38.
38.
All against?
都反对？
One, two.
一，二。
OK, so that's two against.
好的，所以这是两个反对。
And all abstain?
并且全部弃权？
That's three?
那是三个？
Or four.
或者四个。
OK, so that passes.
好的，这样就过去了。
And because that passed, Jyllian Gunther has this story.
因为那件事过去了，吉利安·冈瑟就有了这个故事。
Meetings are so central to The Brooklyn Free School that the only requirement at the school besides showing up is that once a week you attend what is known as the all school democratic meeting.
会议对于布鲁克林自由学校来说是如此重要，以至于除了出席之外，学校的唯一要求是每周参加一次所谓的全校民主会议。
But there are other meetings too.
但还有其他会议。
Meetings for teens, meetings for younger kids, impromptu meetings.
青少年会议、年幼孩子会议、即兴会议。
Meetings can be called by anyone, and they are-- sometimes as many as six a day.
任何人都可以召集会议，而且有时一天多达六次。
At times it can feel like a constant session of Congress, which is by design.
有时，这感觉就像是一场持续不断的国会会议，这是有意设计的。
Free schools are modeled after our country's approach to government.
免费学校是仿照我国政府的做法而建立的。
Give each person a vote and the collective decisions will be what's best for everyone.
给每个人投票权，集体决定将是对每个人都最好的决定。
So how does it work when the voters are kids?
那么当选民是孩子时，它是如何运作的呢？
There was the meeting where the whole school decided that a boy who was always acting out should get constant supervision, so kids signed up for hourly shifts to watch him and keep him in line.
在一次会议上，全校上下决定，一个总是表现不好的男孩应该受到持续的监督，因此孩子们报名参加每小时轮班的活动，以监视他并让他遵守纪律。
Or the one where the kids called a meeting on the school's director for eating in a no food zone.
或者孩子们因为在禁食区吃饭而召集学校校长开会。
Or the time a student called a meeting-- get this-- on herself for missing too many days of school.
或者有一次，一个学生因缺课太多天而召开会议——明白这个——对自己进行指责。
She was asked by her peers to present a case for why she shouldn't be kicked out of school.
她的同龄人要求她提出一个理由，说明为什么她不应该被学校开除。
I happen to know all this because my close friend Katherine is a co-founder and social worker at the school.
我碰巧知道这一切，因为我的好朋友凯瑟琳是学校的联合创始人和社会工作者。
The first thing you notice about The Brooklyn Free School, it doesn't look anything like a school.
关于布鲁克林免费学校，您首先注意到的第一件事是，它看起来一点也不像一所学校。
It's a five story brownstone.
这是一座五层的褐砂石建筑。
The gym used to be the living room, the dining room is a library, a former bathroom is the band room.
健身房曾经是客厅，餐厅是图书馆，以前的浴室是乐队室。
There's an art room and a handful of classrooms, which all look like a cross between a preschool and a teenager's rec room.
这里有一间美术室和几间教室，看起来就像是幼儿园和青少年娱乐室的混合体。
In the teen lounge, teenagers lie on the floor reading The Brothers Karamazov out loud.
在青少年休息室，青少年们躺在地板上大声朗读《卡拉马佐夫兄弟》。
It is well known that there were frequent fights between husband and wife, but according to tradition.
众所周知，夫妻之间经常吵架，但按照传统。
Some other kids go to the store to buy Tic Tacs.
其他一些孩子去商店购买 Tic Tacs。
Some kids are playing cards.
有些孩子正在打牌。
On the second floor, Kai was bothering Martin and the younger kids are having a meeting to resolve it.
在二楼，凯正在打扰马丁，年幼的孩子们正在开会来解决这个问题。
If you do it again, we're going to call an all school meeting, come up with a consequence.
如果你再这样做，我们将召开全校会议，提出结果。
So don't do it again.
所以不要再这样做了。
The first few meetings I watched were not impressive.
我观看的前几次会议并不令人印象深刻。
One Wednesday I went to an all school meeting.
一个星期三，我参加了一次全校会议。
The topic of the day was the art room.
今天的主题是美术室。
Specifically, the age old problem of kids making a mess and not cleaning up.
具体来说，这是孩子们弄乱而不清理的老问题。
There was a long debate about how to fix this, some proposals, and a lot of finger pointing.
关于如何解决这个问题，人们进行了长时间的争论，提出了一些建议，并进行了大量的指责。
The kids mostly seem bored.
孩子们大多看起来很无聊。
An hour later, nothing was decided and the meeting was adjourned.
一个小时后，会议没有做出任何决定，会议休会。
To me, the whole thing just looked like a waste of time.
对我来说，整件事看起来只是浪费时间。
I wondered how much math, and science, and reading could these kids be doing instead of all these meetings?
我想知道这些孩子可以做多少数学、科学和阅读来代替所有这些会议？
I needed to see more, and I did.
我需要看到更多，我做到了。
Over a month I saw all kinds of meetings at the school, and the one that really tested the question, if kids are in charge, do they make the best decisions, was the meeting about the no screens week rule.
一个多月以来，我在学校看到了各种各样的会议，而真正检验这个问题的会议是关于“无屏幕周规则”的会议，如果孩子们负责，他们是否会做出最好的决定。
OK, so Ari, you're the chair, and [UNINTELLIGIBLE], you're the co-chair.
好的，阿里，你是主席，[无法辨认]，你是联合主席。
To understand the no screens week rule, you should know that for the staff it's a badge of honor.
要了解无屏幕周规则，您应该知道这对于员工来说是一种荣誉徽章。
A few years ago, the entire school outlawed using any electronic device with a screen.
几年前，整个学校禁止使用任何带屏幕的电子设备。
No computers, no cell phones, no video games.
没有电脑，没有手机，没有电子游戏。
The kids thought they were too distracting.
孩子们认为他们太分散注意力了。
The little ones were addicted.
小孩子们都上瘾了。
And so to break the addiction, every other week would be a no screens week, and if you wanted to get on a computer to do some research on a no screens week, you needed special permission from a staff member, which was a hassle.
因此，为了戒掉这个瘾，每隔一周就是一个无屏幕周，如果你想在无屏幕周上用电脑做一些研究，你需要得到工作人员的特别许可，这很麻烦。
At a teens only meeting, a 15 year old named Malia dropped this bomb.
在一次仅限青少年的聚会上，一位名叫玛利亚的 15 岁女孩投下了这枚炸弹。
Malia?
玛丽亚？
Malia So I was thinking we take down no screens week for like, I'm thinking people like 13 and older.
Malia 所以我想我们每周都不要关闭屏幕，我想是针对 13 岁及以上的人。
I just think that we need to be able to work and do what research we need to, so that's like a proposal or whatever.
我只是认为我们需要能够工作并进行我们需要的研究，所以这就像一个提案或其他什么。
The no screens rule has been challenged before, but never successfully.
无屏幕规则以前曾受到挑战，但从未成功。
Those in favor were quick to speak up, like [?
赞成的人很快就发声了，比如[？
Aran, ?] a 19 year old in an evolution t-shirt depicting a monkey, a human, and a robot.
Aran，？] 一名 19 岁的年轻人，穿着一件描绘猴子、人类和机器人的进化 T 恤。
Yeah, ?] I think it's pathetic basically.
是啊？]我认为这基本上是可悲的。
I mean, with the no screens week, basically when you do research, you're breaking a rule.
我的意思是，在无屏幕周，基本上当你进行研究时，你就违反了规则。
School is for learning, and it's so pathetic that when you do research-- I mean it should be encouraged, but it's so pathetic that when you do research you break a rule.
学校是用来学习的，当你做研究时，这太可悲了——我的意思是应该鼓励它，但当你做研究时，你违反了规则，这太可悲了。
So I think this should just be totally gone with.
所以我认为这应该完全消失。
The adults don't agree, they want the restriction on the screens to stay.
大人们不同意，他们希望继续保留对屏幕的限制。
But they're outnumbered by the kids by a three to one margin.
但他们的人数比孩子们多出三比一。
Lily, a teacher at the school, tries to rein them in.
学校的老师莉莉试图控制他们。
I was a teacher and an adviser of the high school when we made this rule, and there was a lot of conversation about the positive things that it would bring for highschoolers.
当我们制定这条规则时，我是一名老师和高中的顾问，并且有很多关于它将为高中生带来的积极事物的讨论。
We also talked a lot about the effects that a lot of screen time has on sleep, which is a huge thing for people your age, and we talk about that a lot in attendance meeting.
我们还讨论了很多屏幕时间对睡眠的影响，这对于你这个年龄段的人来说是一件大事，我们在出席会议上也讨论了很多这个问题。
So I wanted to bring that up some.
所以我想提出一些。
And then also, I just wanted to say that, of course, no screens week doesn't mean no research, and sometimes you can do better research without a screen.
然后，我只是想说，当然，没有屏幕周并不意味着没有研究，有时没有屏幕你可以做更好的研究。
Is that it?
是这样吗？
[?
[？
Aram, ?] [?
阿拉姆，？] [？
Aran, ?] whatever.
阿兰，？] 无论如何。
Aran.
阿兰.
?] Aran Yeah, ?] first of all, I have some things to say.
？] Aran 是啊，？] 首先，我有一些话要说。
In response to what Lily said, even though screen may not be the only way to research, it definitely is the easiest way to research.
回应Lily所说，虽然屏幕可能不是唯一的研究方式，但它绝对是最简单的研究方式。
I mean, the internet you can get more information than from a book.
我的意思是，通过互联网你可以获得比书本更多的信息。
That is definitely the truth-- I mean, a book you have to like look, look, look, the internet, you can just search, so yeah--
这绝对是事实——我的意思是，一本你必须喜欢的书，看，看，看，在互联网上，你可以搜索，所以是的——
I should say here, as the meeting is happening, two kids are texting and one is playing a game on his Nintendo DS, which is fine, it is a screens week.
我应该在这里说，在会议进行时，两个孩子正在发短信，一个正在他的任天堂 DS 上玩游戏，这很好，这是屏幕周。
[?
[？
Aram, ?] 12, is Malia's younger brother, and he thinks his sister's proposal is risky.
Aram, ?] 12 岁，是 Malia 的弟弟，他认为姐姐的求婚有风险。
I ?] don't know how many of you were students here when-- it was like two years ago-- that no screens week was taken down for like a three week time period.
我？] 不知道你们中有多少人是这里的学生，就像两年前一样，大约三周的时间内没有放映周被取消。
And it was like really chaotic.
感觉真的很混乱。
No one did anything.
没有人做任何事。
The only thing anyone did was just sit there using screens.
人们所做的唯一一件事就是坐在那里使用屏幕。
Then a student says that all this is besides the point, because the rule itself is completely inconsistent with the school's philosophy.
然后一个学生说这一切都不是重点，因为规则本身完全不符合学校的理念。
If you can trust someone to learn what they need to know without encouraging them, shouldn't you trust them to know when to turn a computer off?
如果您可以相信某人能够在不鼓励他们的情况下了解他们需要知道的内容，那么您难道不应该相信他们知道何时关闭计算机吗？
After 20 minutes of debate, a vote is taken.
经过20分钟的辩论后，进行投票。
Six people abstain, three people vote against, 11 for.
6 人弃权，3 人反对，11 人赞成。
The result of this meaning-- all screens, all the time-- is this an example of kids knowing what's best for them?
这种含义的结果——所有屏幕，所有时间——是孩子们知道什么对他们最好的一个例子吗？
Seems like a potential disaster to me and every other adult in the room.
对我和房间里的其他成年人来说，这似乎是一场潜在的灾难。
And right after the meeting, when I ask [?
会议结束后，当我问[？
Aran, ?] the kid who was most vocal about needing his computer to do research, he confided, well, he'd also be playing some video games.
阿兰，？] 那个最直言不讳地表示需要计算机进行研究的孩子，他透露，好吧，他也会玩一些电子游戏。
A few weeks later, I check in with Lily, a teacher who'd voted against the policy to find out how things were going.
几周后，我联系了投票反对这项政策的老师莉莉，了解事情的进展情况。
Everyone's been really responsible.
每个人都非常负责任。
There're very few students who have changed how much they use screens since before that was passed.
自该法案通过以来，很少有学生改变他们使用屏幕的频率。
I think it's an interesting thing when you give them that permission, I guess, or that responsibility, like, OK, you're voting this through, you're all making this decision, you know, you're all saying, we can handle this.
我认为，当你给予他们许可或责任时，这是一件有趣的事情，比如，好吧，你们投票通过，你们都在做出这个决定，你们知道，你们都在说，我们可以处理这个问题。
And I think that a lot of the teenagers have been very careful not to cause any problems since that rule got passed, because they know it's something that they put their stamp on.
我认为自从该规则通过以来，很多青少年都非常小心，不要造成任何问题，因为他们知道这是他们打上烙印的东西。
Like technically, there could be movies played all day long now, every single day, but they're not.
从技术上讲，现在可以每天整天播放电影，但事实并非如此。
Which means the system's working, for now.
这意味着系统目前正在运行。
Late one Wednesday near the end of school everyone's cleaning up and getting ready to leave, and suddenly word goes up and down the stairs that someone's calling an impromptu all school meeting, a big deal in the arsenal of democratic meetings.
周三晚些时候，临近放学，大家都在打扫卫生，准备离开，突然楼上传来消息，有人要召开一次临时全校会议，这是民主会议中的一件大事。
Anyone can interrupt the whole school at any time and hold court.
任何人都可以随时扰乱整个学校并开庭。
I called this meaning because someone said something that is not appropriate to me again.
我之所以称之为这个意思，是因为有人又说了一些不适合我的话。
Confusion sets in.
混乱开始出现。
A 10 year old says, "I don't think you should waste our time on this, it's crazy to call this meeting." And another student asks, "Why not call a smaller meeting with whoever did it?" Despite the fact that I heard a lot from Malia in the short time I was at school, she's not known for calling meetings or crying wolf.
一个 10 岁的孩子说：“我认为你不应该在这上面浪费我们的时间，召开这次会议太疯狂了。”另一名学生问道：“为什么不与干这事的人召开一次小型会议呢？”尽管我在学校的短时间内就听到了很多玛利亚的消息，但她并不以召开会议或喊“狼来了”而闻名。
Malia says it's about two brothers, [?
玛丽亚说这是关于两个兄弟的，[？
Cruz ?] and [?
克鲁兹？]和[？
Seoul.
汉城。
?]
？]
Because I want to show [?
因为我想展示[?
Cruz ?] and [?
克鲁兹？]和[？
Seoul ?] that this is an important-- that this is not something that they can just do.
首尔？]这很重要——这不是他们能做的事情。
You cannot say a bad word to someone and just get away with it.
你不能对某人说一句坏话然后就侥幸逃脱。
So I'm making it an all school thing now.
所以我现在把它变成了全学校的事情。
Infinity?
无穷大？
Infinity What did they say to you of that was so bad?
Infinity 他们对你说了什么这么糟糕？
Was that a direct question?
这是一个直接的问题吗？
They called me a whore, both of them, like twice.
他们都骂我是妓女，两次了。
I mean, I didn't even do anything to them.
我的意思是，我什至没有对他们做任何事。
I asked them to stop annoying me and Bennett because we are talking quietly in the library, and they came up and they said, oh, whatever, you're a whore, or whatever.
我让他们不要再烦我和贝内特，因为我们正在图书馆里小声交谈，他们走过来说，哦，不管怎样，你是个妓女，或者别的什么。
[?
[？
Kirren?
基伦？
?] Kirren What ?] the hell is a whore?
？] Kirren 什么？] 到底是个妓女？
That's [?
那是[?
Kirren, ?] seven.
基伦，？]七。
He and everyone else look over at [?
他和其他人都看着[？
Cruz ?] and [?
克鲁兹？]和[？
Seoul ?] waiting for an answer, but [?
首尔？]等待答案，但是[？
Cruz ?] is only just nine himself, and [?
克鲁兹？]自己才九岁，而且[？
Seoul ?] is 10.
首尔？]是10。
And sitting in Katherine's lap, the brothers appear even younger than they are, and they look a little lost and embarrassed.
而坐在凯瑟琳的腿上，兄弟俩显得比实际年龄还要年轻，神情有些失落和尴尬。
Katherine breaks the silence.
凯瑟琳打破了沉默。
I'd love for [?
我喜欢[?
Seoul ?] and [?
首尔？]和[？
Cruz ?] to talk right now, but they also don't know what the word means.
克鲁兹？]现在就说话，但他们也不知道这个词的意思。
And it doesn't matter what the word means, but it was very offensive and upsetting to Malia, and I'm glad you brought this up, Malia.
这个词的含义并不重要，但这对玛丽亚来说是非常冒犯和不安的，我很高兴你提出这个问题，玛丽亚。
Malia offers a tasteful and purposefully vague explanation of the word whore.
玛丽亚对妓女这个词做出了有品味且故意含糊其辞的解释。
The kids get that the word is bad.
孩子们知道这个词不好。
While it's clear that Malia's angry, it's not entirely clear what the purpose of the meeting is.
虽然玛利亚显然很生气，但我们并不完全清楚这次会议的目的是什么。
Does she want them punished?
她希望他们受到惩罚吗？
Does she want an apology?
她想要道歉吗？
Lily tries to gently steer Malia to a conclusion.
莉莉试图温和地引导玛丽亚得出结论。
I wondered, Malia, what you are hoping to get out of this.
我想知道，玛丽亚，你希望从中得到什么。
If it would be helpful, do you think, to maybe talk in a smaller meeting with them after this?
您认为在此之后与他们举行小型会议是否有帮助？
Or if there's something else that you're looking for?
或者您是否还有其他需要寻找的东西？
I didn't really come with the idea of a proposal, I just think that when people do something wrong, they need to see that it's something bigger than just them.
我并没有真正提出提案的想法，我只是认为当人们做错事时，他们需要看到这不仅仅是他们自己的事情。
But I think it needs to stop.
但我认为它需要停止。
People don't know what they're saying, and they say it all the time, and that's not even a good way to use the word.
人们不知道他们在说什么，而且他们总是这么说，而这甚至不是使用这个词的好方法。
It's like, if you're going to use the word, don't just use it when you don't know what it is randomly.
就像，如果你要使用这个词，不要在你不知道它是什么的时候就随意使用它。
Then Malia improvises something remarkable.
然后玛利亚即兴创作了一些非凡的作品。
She turns the focus of the meeting away from herself.
她将会议的焦点从自己身上转移开。
And I'd like to ask to see a raise of hands-- I'd like to see how many people have been called something.
我想请大家举手——我想看看有多少人被称为某事。
See, it's just so many people.
你看，就这么多人。
And I think--
我认为——
I think that like a lot of kids do that to me also, and I hate it.
我想很多孩子也会这样对我，我讨厌这样。
We understand that these words are derogatory, so I think we should think of a consequence or proposal next time somebody curses at somebody else.
我们知道这些词是贬义的，所以我认为下次有人咒骂别人时我们应该考虑一下后果或建议。
Whoever the hell made up these curse words was really wrong.
这些骂人的话到底是谁编出来的，确实是错误的。
Malia proposes they meet again tomorrow to come up with consequences for calling someone a bad name.
玛利亚建议他们明天再次会面，讨论辱骂某人的后果。
They all agree.
他们都同意。
But they didn't do it.
但他们没有这么做。
In the end, no new rules went into effect, they didn't even meet.
最终，新的规则没有生效，他们甚至没有见面。
When I found out, I was genuinely surprised.
当我发现时，我真的很惊讶。
One day, this was a big deal to everyone, the next day forgotten.
有一天，这对每个人来说都是一件大事，第二天就被遗忘了。
In the weeks I was at the school, a lot of meetings ended this way.
我在学校的那几周里，很多会议都是这样结束的。
One proposal about kids being too noisy outside and bothering the neighbors, a smaller meeting about the democratic meetings themselves and how to improve them, and a bigger meeting where those improvements were struck down all together.
一项关于孩子在外面太吵闹并打扰邻居的提案，一次关于民主会议本身以及如何改进民主会议的小型会议，以及一次更大的会议，这些改进被全部否决。
Another about kids in the kitchen not eating other kids food.
另一个是关于厨房里的孩子不吃其他孩子的食物。
That first meeting I attended about cleaning the art room.
我参加的第一次会议是关于打扫艺术室的。
A lot of talk with no conclusion.
说了很多，没有结论。
When I asked my friend Katherine about this, she says that's part of the plan.
当我向我的朋友凯瑟琳询问此事时，她说这是计划的一部分。
You know, so what if there's no resolution?
你知道，如果没有解决办法怎么办？
The point is they're left with something to think about.
关键是他们还有一些事情需要思考。
What are you going to do about it?
你打算怎么做？
You know, that's more interesting to me than somebody deciding that this is the way it should be.
你知道，这对我来说比有人决定事情应该是这样更有趣。
And then it's all easier, and it all goes nicer.
然后一切都会变得更容易，一切都会变得更好。
When I see Malia a few days later, I ask her what happened.
几天后，当我见到玛丽亚时，我问她发生了什么事。
Why no follow-up meeting?
为什么没有后续会议？
She explains, another meeting wasn't necessary.
她解释说，没有必要再召开一次会议。
She'd said what she had to, everyone listened, other people spoke up too, and she feels better.
她已经说了她必须说的话，每个人都听了，其他人也都发言了，她感觉好多了。
And it was kind of different from in a real school, you'd say, I have a problem, and then you get a teacher to deal with it.
这和真正的学校有点不同，你会说，我有一个问题，然后你找老师来处理它。
Or instead of everybody getting together and saying that this is a big problem, and that everybody should deal with it, and we should work together to change it.
或者不是每个人聚在一起说这是一个大问题，每个人都应该处理它，我们应该共同努力改变它。
I don't know, it's like I've gotten so used to deciding everything.
我不知道，好像我已经习惯了决定一切。
Like I've had moments where I'll think about something outside of school, and think, oh, I should vote on it.
就像我有时会思考学校之外的事情，然后想，哦，我应该投票。
And then I can't vote on it.
然后我就不能投票了。
I feel bad that a lot of people don't have the power in their environment like we do.
我感到难过的是，很多人在他们的环境中没有像我们一样拥有权力。
Because we get to change anything about the school that we want to.
因为我们可以改变学校的任何我们想要改变的事情。
When she came into the school five years ago, Malia was scared to say what was on her mind.
五年前，当玛利亚进入学校时，她不敢说出自己的想法。
Over the years, she's learned to speak up, and she's seen that lead to change.
多年来，她学会了大声说出来，并且她看到了这会带来改变。
She admits the meetings can be boring and frustrating, but she takes the authority she's given by the school very seriously.
她承认这些会议可能很无聊和令人沮丧，但她非常重视学校赋予她的权威。
All the kids do.
所有的孩子都这样做。
Malia feels bad for adults, she said, because they can't just call a meeting and take a vote at their jobs, or wherever, to fix something that bothers them.
玛利亚对成年人感到难过，她说，因为他们不能只是召开会议并在工作中或任何地方进行投票来解决困扰他们的问题。
I get that.
我明白了。
Once you're grown up, democracy is not so pure.
一旦你长大了，民主就不再那么纯粹了。
Jyllian Gunther.
吉莉安·冈瑟.
She's a filmmaker currently finishing a film about an new public high school in Brooklyn.
她是一名电影制片人，目前正在完成一部有关布鲁克林一所新公立高中的电影。
[MUSIC - "IF THE KIDS ARE UNITED (THEY'LL NEVER BE DIVIDED)" BY SHAM-69]
[音乐 - SHAM-69 的“如果孩子们团结起来（他们就永远不会分裂）”]
Our program was produced today by Sarah Koenig, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Lisa Pollak, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Nancy Updike.
我们今天的节目由 Sarah Koenig 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Jane Feltes、Lisa Pollak、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp、Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Senior producer for our show is Julie Snyder.
我们节目的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Seth Lind is our production manager.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的生产经理。
Emily Condon's our office manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的办公室经理。
Production help from Shawn Wen and Eric Mennel.
Shawn Wen 和 Eric Mennel 为制作提供帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] That amazing film, Please Vote For Me, about the third grade election, originally aired on Independent Lens on PBS.
[鸣谢] 这部关于三年级选举的精彩电影《请为我投票》最初在 PBS 的独立镜头上播出。
You can buy a copy online.
您可以在线购买副本。
We link from our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们从我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 链接。
We say goodbye this week to our intern, Shawn Wen, who's been great to work with, and who we wish the very best.
本周我们要向实习生 Shawn Wen 告别，与他共事非常愉快，我们祝愿他一切顺利。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who's been puzzling over the every-changing FCC rules, until he finally arrivede at this:
我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的节目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他一直对不断变化的 FCC 规则感到困惑，直到他最终得出以下结论：
Whoever the hell made up these curse words was really wrong.
这些骂人的话到底是谁编出来的，确实是错误的。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。