418: Toxie - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #418 | November 5, 2010 418: Toxie Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 418 集 | 2010 年 11 月 5 日 418：Toxie 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass It's hard to remember now just how often we were hearing about them.
序言 Ira Glass 现在很难记得我们多久听到一次他们。
How they were being blamed for the entire economic mess, collapsing all around us.
他们如何被指责为整个经济混乱、在我们周围崩溃的原因。
And I think it's hard to remember just what a big deal they were, because we never quite understood, not then, not now, what they are.
我认为很难记住它们到底有多么重要，因为我们从来没有完全理解它们是什么，无论是当时还是现在。
The treasury launched the TARP last fall to help rid the nation's banks of toxic assets.
美国财政部去年秋天推出了问题资产救助计划（TARP），以帮助美国银行摆脱有毒资产。
These toxic assets are the cancer in the balance sheet.
这些有毒资产是资产负债表中的毒瘤。
The President opened up by talking about the importance of dealing with toxic assets.
总统首先谈到了处理有毒资产的重要性。
Banks aren't the only institutions affected by these toxic assets.
银行并不是唯一受这些有毒资产影响的机构。
Toxic assets.
有毒资产。
Ira Glass Our Planet Money team has been covering the financial crisis for two years, and they felt like one way to understand what is happening in our economy-- right now, today-- was to become intimately acquainted with the source of its demise.
Ira Glass 我们的 Planet Money 团队已经报道金融危机两年了，他们认为了解我们的经济正在发生的事情的一种方法——现在，今天——就是深入了解其消亡的根源。
The toxic asset.
有毒资产。
And so back in January, reporters David Kestenbaum and Chana Joffe-Walt convinced three of their colleagues that they should purchase one.
早在一月份，记者 David Kestenbaum 和 Chana Joffe-Walt 就说服了三位同事，让他们应该购买一台。
Purchase one for themselves, pitch in together $1,000.
自己买一个，一起捐1000美元。
All right, you guys each owe me $202.
好吧，你们每人欠我 202 美元。
Pay up.
付钱吧。
No change?
没有改变吗？
Even $202?
甚至202美元？
Chana Joffe-Walt $202.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 202 美元。
There's no change.
没有任何变化。
Ira Glass That's right, buy one of the things that nearly brought down the global financial system.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：没错，买一件几乎摧毁全球金融体系的东西。
That blew up major Wall Street banks, that plunged the world into an economic collapse from which it is still struggling to recover.
这摧毁了华尔街的主要银行，使世界陷入经济崩溃，至今仍在努力恢复。
They wanted to buy one of those.
他们想买其中一件。
I'm writing a check, I have to be precise.
我正在写支票，我必须准确。
I'm putting toxic asset as the memo on my check.
我将有毒资产作为我支票上的备忘录。
Today we're going to be hearing the surprisingly riveting tale of a single toxic asset.
今天我们将听到一个关于有毒资产的令人惊讶的引人入胜的故事。
The Planet Money team has rolled out installments of the story one at a time over the course of the last year, on the Planet Money podcasts and on some of the NPR news shows-- serialized like a Dicken's novel, published one chapter at a time.
去年，《Planet Money》团队在《Planet Money》播客和一些 NPR 新闻节目中一次一篇地推出了这个故事，就像狄更斯的小说一样连载，一次出版一章。
But today for the first time, we bring you the whole story.
但今天我们第一次为您带来整个故事。
Great Expectations , Little Dorrit, Bleak House, the full novel, beginning to end, in one place for the first time, so you can actually follow the entire tale.
《远大前程》、《小杜丽》、《荒凉山庄》，完整的小说，从头到尾，第一次在一个地方，所以你可以真正了解整个故事。
And to kick us off, I am now joined in the studio by David and Chana.
首先，大卫和查纳加入了我的工作室。
Hey, Ira.
嘿，艾拉。
All right, so I brought it in.
好吧，那我就带进去了。
Here it is, this is what we bought.
就是这样，这就是我们买的。
That's chapter one, volume two.
这是第二卷第一章。
It's just a pile of papers.
这只是一堆文件。
David Kestenbaum Written by a lot of lawyers, yeah.
David Kestenbaum 由很多律师撰写，是的。
So technically, this thing is called a mortgage backed security.
所以从技术上来说，这个东西被称为抵押贷款支持证券。
Basically, a bunch of Wall Street guys grabbed up thousands of mortgages from all over the country, threw them in a pile, and sold off pieces to investors.
基本上，一群华尔街的人从全国各地抓起数千笔抵押贷款，把它们扔成一堆，然后把碎片卖给投资者。
So big pension funds bought them, insurance funds bought them, banks bought them.
因此大型养老基金购买了它们，保险基金购买了它们，银行购买了它们。
And you guys bought them?
你们买了它们吗？
Chana Joffe-Walt Well that part happened much later.
Chana Joffe-Walt 嗯，这部分发生得很晚。
We bought ours in January of this year, and by that point, things had degraded so much that they were so cheap even a bunch of reporters could afford one.
我们是在今年一月份买的，到那时，东西已经退化得非常便宜，甚至一群记者都买得起。
And your goal in buying this toxic asset-- I thought of it as somebody who's a fan of these stories when I would hear them-- you're like archaeologists in this project.
你购买这种有毒资产的目标——当我听到这些故事时，我认为它是这些故事的粉丝——你就像这个项目中的考古学家。
You're like forensic doctors trying to reconstruct how the housing market collapsed and the economy died, and truly understand what happened by carefully picking apart the corpse of one financial instrument.
你就像法医一样，试图重建房地产市场崩溃和经济死亡的过程，并通过仔细拆开一种金融工具的尸体来真正了解发生了什么。
And I remember at the beginning, your hope was that this one toxic asset would be like an encyclopedia of the entire financial crisis.
我记得一开始，你希望这一有毒资产就像整个金融危机的百科全书。
Yeah, it has.
是的，有。
This thing has everything.
这东西什么都有。
There are homeowners and foreclosure, there is crime, there are the unintended consequences of bailing out both huge corporations and individual homeowners.
有房主和丧失抵押品赎回权，有犯罪，还有救助大公司和个人房主的意想不到的后果。
There are questions of morality.
存在道德问题。
All right, well let's get to it.
好吧，让我们开始吧。
Our show in five acts.
我们的演出有五幕。
Act One, Fire Sale in Kansas City.
第一幕，堪萨斯城的甩卖。
Take it away.
把它拿走。
So we've got our $1,000, we've got the will.
所以我们已经有了 1,000 美元，我们也有了意愿。
Now we just have to buy one.
现在我们只需要买一个。
But it turns out, it's not so easy to buy a toxic asset.
但事实证明，购买有毒资产并不那么容易。
You kind of need to know a guy.
你需要认识一个人。
But, David, you knew a guy.
但是，大卫，你认识一个人。
Wit Solberg, he used to work on Wall Street, now he'd set up shop in Kansas City, his hometown.
维特·索尔伯格（Wit Solberg）曾经在华尔街工作，现在他在家乡堪萨斯城开店。
He was helping small community banks that got stuck with toxic assets.
他正在帮助陷入有毒资产困境的小型社区银行。
So I called him, and I said, "How can we buy one of these things?" And Wit said, "I can help you.
所以我打电话给他，我说：“我们怎样才能买这些东西呢？”维特说：“我可以帮助你。
Come on down." So we did.
下来吧。”所以我们做到了。
This is it?
是这个吗？
David Kestenbaum Yeah.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 是的。
Hey, Chana?
嘿，查娜？
Yeah?
是的？
David Kestenbaum I forgot my check book.
大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆 我忘记带支票簿了。
So David, you took me to Kansas City to what feels like an abandoned alley.
大卫，你带我去了堪萨斯城，那里感觉像是一条废弃的小巷。
There's no one around, it's like an unmarked brick building.
周围没有人，就像一栋没有标记的砖房。
I feel like we're buying drugs.
我感觉我们是在买毒品。
Wait, this is really it?
等等，这真的是吗？
Just in one of these little buildings?
就在这些小建筑中的一栋吗？
Yeah, it used to be a barber shop I think.
是的，我想那曾经是一家理发店。
So we go upstairs and it looks more legit inside.
所以我们上楼，里面看起来更合法。
There are maybe a dozen guys in a big open office, white boards with numbers and lists.
一间宽敞的开放式办公室里大概有十几个人，白板上写着数字和清单。
And each desk has several computer monitors sort of floating on a sea of crap-- potato chip bags, Snapple bottles, toothpaste, chewing tobacco.
每张桌子上都有几台电脑显示器，上面堆满了垃圾——薯片袋、Snapple 瓶、牙膏、嚼烟。
Chewing tobacco that gets spit out into the Snapple bottle.
咀嚼的烟草会被吐到 Snapple 瓶子里。
That would be Wit.
那就是维特。
Wit Solberg.
维特·索尔伯格。
He's got a blond buzz cut, he's very charming and completely all over the place.
他有一头金色的平头，非常迷人，而且到处都是。
Wit is always telling you several things at once.
机智总是同时告诉你几件事。
Just getting him to sit down and say his name is tough.
只是让他坐下来说出他的名字是很困难的。
OK, so we-- Chana Joffe-Walt What's your name?
好的，那么我们—— Chana Joffe-Walt 你叫什么名字？
Oh, OK, that's a good point.
哦，好的，这是一个好点。
So my name's Wit.
所以我的名字叫维特。
OK, so a bit about what we're buying.
好的，简单介绍一下我们要买的东西。
A long time ago, before toxic assets were toxic, they were called-- and you've heard this phrase-- mortgaged backed securities.
很久以前，在有毒资产成为有毒资产之前，它们被称为——你听说过这个短语——抵押支持证券。
What that means is that these are thousands of mortgages all bundled together.
这意味着这些是数以千计的抵押贷款全部捆绑在一起。
And every month when people send in their mortgage payments, think of that money as going into one big pot.
每个月，当人们缴纳抵押贷款时，请将这笔钱视为存入一个大锅。
And then the money in the pot gets used to pay the investors, the owners of this thing.
然后锅里的钱就会用来支付给投资者，也就是这个东西的所有者。
They each get a monthly payment.
他们每个月都会收到付款。
Of course, we all know what happened.
当然，我们都知道发生了什么。
People stopped paying their mortgages.
人们停止支付抵押贷款。
And the amount of money coming in started to dwindle.
流入的资金量开始减少。
So there was no way investors are going to get all their money back.
因此，投资者不可能收回所有资金。
At this point, the mortgage backed security has officially become a toxic asset.
至此，抵押贷款支持证券正式成为有毒资产。
And now, lots of investors are trying to unload these things at steep discounts, which is a buying opportunity for us.
现在，许多投资者正试图以大幅折扣出售这些东西，这对我们来说是一个买入机会。
We want to make some money on this.
我们想借此赚点钱。
And we can, if we pick the right one at the right price.
如果我们以合适的价格选择合适的产品，我们就可以做到。
So we're sitting here in Wit's office about to start bidding on toxic assets that people are trying to dump.
因此，我们坐在威特的办公室里，准备开始对人们试图抛售的有毒资产进行竞标。
Wit's going to look at the toxic assets, analyze them, and help us choose what to buy.
威特将研究有毒资产，对其进行分析，并帮助我们选择购买什么。
He's got three computer monitors on his desk, and brokers send him emails about what toxic assets are for sale today.
他的办公桌上放着三台电脑显示器，经纪人向他发送电子邮件，介绍今天待售的有毒资产。
Only they don't call them toxic assets, they call them bonds.
只是他们不称其为有毒资产，而称其为债券。
Wit gets lots of emails from guys in New York.
威特收到了很多纽约人发来的电子邮件。
Bobby sends a lot of email.
鲍比发送了大量电子邮件。
And Cliff, and Dwayne, and Adam, and Cliff again, and Chris, and, you know.
还有克里夫、德韦恩、亚当、克里夫，还有克里斯，还有，你知道。
They're guys that sell bonds.
他们是出售债券的人。
David Kestenbaum The emails have subject lines like, super senior steal.
David Kestenbaum 这些电子邮件的主题是“超级高级盗窃”。
One says, cheaper.
有人说，更便宜。
It takes us a long time to even find a bond Wit wants to make an offer on.
我们甚至花了很长时间才找到 Wit 想要报价的债券。
But finally, he picks one he thinks looks good.
但最后，他选择了一个他认为看起来不错的。
And then he asks this guy Rob-- who kind of looks like he stuck his finger in a light socket-- to go and analyze it with a computer model in the back room.
然后他让这个家伙罗布——他看起来像是把手指插进了电灯插座里——去后面的房间里用计算机模型来分析它。
Actually, what Wit specifically says is, "Hey Rob, go back to the bond cave and check this out."
事实上，Wit 具体说的是，“嘿，罗布，回到债券洞穴去看看这个。”
And back in the bond cave, Rob is going to run a bunch of fancy software to try and answer one deceptively simple question.
回到债券洞穴，罗布将运行一堆奇特的软件来尝试回答一个看似简单的问题。
How much should we pay for this bond?
我们应该为这笔债券支付多少钱？
Remember, the bond is a pile of mortgages.
请记住，债券是一堆抵押贷款。
Imagine that pile.
想象一下那堆。
The value of the pile depends on the health of those mortgages.
该抵押贷款的价值取决于这些抵押贷款的健康状况。
As people's houses get foreclosed on, repossessed, and sold for a loss, pop, one of the mortgages disappears.
当人们的房屋被取消赎回权、被收回并亏本出售时，突然，其中一项抵押贷款消失了。
The pile shrinks.
堆收缩。
Right now, whoever owns the bond that Rob is looking at is receiving monthly payments.
目前，无论谁拥有罗布正在考虑的债券，都可以按月收到付款。
But once that pile of mortgages shrinks enough, those payments will stop.
但一旦抵押贷款数量减少到足够多，这些付款就会停止。
This bond will die.
这种纽带将会消亡。
So Rob is trying to figure out, if we spend $1,000 to own a piece of this bond now, will those payments continue long enough for us to make our money back, plus some.
因此，罗布试图弄清楚，如果我们现在花 1,000 美元购买这张债券的一部分，这些付款是否会持续足够长的时间，让我们能够收回我们的钱，再加上一些。
Rob comes back and says, "Yeah, this one could be OK." And then Wit says something that blows me away.
罗布回来说：“是的，这个应该没问题。”然后维特说了一些让我震惊的话。
He says we should bid half a cent on the bond.
他说我们应该对债券出价半美分。
As in one half of one penny on the dollar.
就像一美元的二分之一一样。
Meaning at some point, probably the height of the bubble, say this was worth a full dollar, now we're going to offer to buy it for half a cent-- less than one percent of what someone originally bought it for.
意思是在某个时候，可能是泡沫最严重的时候，假设这个东西值一美元，现在我们将以半美分的价格购买它——不到人们最初购买它的价格的百分之一。
So Wit calls Cliff, one of those brokers who sent him the emails.
于是威特给克里夫打电话，克里夫是给他发电子邮件的经纪人之一。
And he says, "Hey man, half a cent on the bond." That's the way these guys talk when they're bidding on something.
他说：“嘿，伙计，半美分的保证金。”这就是这些人在竞标某物时说话的方式。
Two cents, mid teens, twenties.
两美分，十几岁，二十几岁。
So Cliff says, OK, let me check with whoever's selling it.
所以克里夫说，好吧，让我去看看卖它的人。
We hang up, wait, and wait.
我们挂断电话，等待，等待。
And finally, Cliff calls back.
最后，克里夫回电了。
What's happening?
发生什么事了？
Cliff They're saying high teens on that.
克里夫：他们对此的评价很高。
So what happened now?
那么现在发生了什么？
Somebody bought it for high teens?
有人给青少年买过吗？
No, that's what they're telling the trader.
不，这就是他们告诉交易者的。
And you bid half a cent?
你出价半分钱吗？
David Kestenbaum So there's real disagreement about what these things are worth?
David Kestenbaum 那么对于这些东西的价值确实存在分歧吗？
There's huge disagreement.
分歧很大。
I mean, honestly, this is not uncommon.
我的意思是，老实说，这并不罕见。
Chana, we got outbid by someone offering 30 times more than we did.
Chana，我们的出价比我们高出 30 倍。
You think these toxic assets are plentiful and they're cheap, it should be easy to pick one up.
你认为这些有毒资产数量多而且价格便宜，应该很容易就能买到。
But it's not easy.
但这并不容易。
It takes a really long time because no one really knows what they're worth.
这需要很长时间，因为没有人真正知道它们的价值。
Remember TARP, the government program?
还记得问题资产救助计划（TARP）吗？
A $700 billion dollar toxic asset relief program.
7000 亿美元的有毒资产救助计划。
The government's original plan was to use that money to buy up toxic assets, just vacuum up the whole problem.
政府最初的计划是用这笔钱购买有毒资产，从而解决整个问题。
But it changed its mind.
但它改变了主意。
One reason, it was too hard to figure out what price to buy them for.
原因之一是，很难弄清楚以什么价格购买它们。
Turns out, it's still a problem today.
事实证明，今天这仍然是一个问题。
We're basically buying garbage, and it ends up taking us two full days.
我们基本上都是在买垃圾，结果花了我们整整两天的时间。
So why don't we run the 051MV8.
那么我们为什么不运行051MV8呢？
OK, so the 1030 prime's no.
好的，所以 1030 prime 是第一。
OK, it's now day two of toxic asset shopping, late in the day, Wit says, "I think I found it.
好吧，现在是有毒资产购买的第二天，在当天晚些时候，威特说，“我想我找到了它。
This one looks good."
这个看起来不错。”
And it is a beautiful, totally toxic asset.
这是一种美丽但完全有毒的资产。
Wit shows it to us on the computer screen.
维特在电脑屏幕上向我们展示了它。
It contains mortgages on 2,000 homes.
它包含 2,000 套房屋的抵押贷款。
Wit scrolls through them.
智慧在其中滚动。
There's a house in Arizona, California-- oh, there's a big one, someone paid more than $2 million for that place.
在加利福尼亚州亚利桑那州有一栋房子——哦，有一栋很大的房子，有人花了超过 200 万美元买下了那个地方。
Now this house is located in Florida, and it's a planned urban development in Sarasota.
现在这栋房子位于佛罗里达州，是萨拉索塔规划的城市开发项目。
All right?
好的？
Pretty nice Sarasota place, right?
萨拉索塔很不错的地方，对吧？
You can tell the zip code.
你可以告诉邮政编码。
Wit Solberg Yeah, there's a zip code.
Wit Solberg 是的，有一个邮政编码。
34240.
34240。
Wit Solberg Yeah, golf course community, maybe a cul-de-sac, something.
Wit Solberg 是的，高尔夫球场社区，也许是一个死胡同之类的。
There's another guy in Sarasota, there's another guy in Sarasota, so you can start to get a feel that there was a guy in Sarasota who had a billboard, who gave big loans, and those big loans went into this pool.
萨拉索塔还有另一个人，萨拉索塔还有另一个人，所以你可以开始感觉到萨拉索塔有一个人有一个广告牌，他提供了大笔贷款，这些大笔贷款都进入了这个池子。
This toxic asset, it originally cost $75,000.
这个有毒资产最初花费了 75,000 美元。
We get it for $1,000.
我们花 1,000 美元买到它。
Wit thinks that's a good price.
Wit 认为这个价格很不错。
And it says, right there on the computer screen, that there could be enough monthly payments left in it for us to double our money.
就在电脑屏幕上，它说，里面可能还有足够的每月付款，可以让我们的钱翻倍。
Wit calls a friend at a local bank to make it official.
威特打电话给当地一家银行的朋友，正式宣布此事。
All right, so that's all square-cornered.
好吧，这一切都是方角的。
OK.
好的。
Proud owner of a bouncy little private label mortgage backed security.
自豪地拥有有弹性的小型私人标签抵押贷款支持证券。
We prefer toxic asset.
我们更喜欢有毒资产。
Banker Maturity value purchased for the cheap, cheap value of $1012.09.
银行家到期价值以 1012.09 美元的便宜价格购买。
So if anybody has any questions, holler back at me.
因此，如果有人有任何疑问，请回复我。
Bye.
再见。
Chana Joffe-Walt All right, there it is.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 好吧，就这样。
There you go.
就这样吧。
We will print screen on the settlement, you can take it home with you.
我们将在结算上打印屏幕，您可以将其带回家。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Are you going to affirm?
你要肯定吗？
Can I click affirm?
我可以点击确认吗？
You can click affirm.
您可以点击确认。
Chana Joffe-Walt Here we go.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 我们开始吧。
It's ours.
这是我们的。
At some point, I realized I was the only one clapping, so I stopped.
在某个时刻，我意识到我是唯一一个鼓掌的人，所以我停了下来。
But I am feeling good about our investment.
但我对我们的投资感觉良好。
I figured, everyone's afraid of these things, only a handful of people are analyzing them and looking for bargains.
我想，每个人都害怕这些东西，只有少数人在分析它们并寻找便宜货。
We got it for 99% off.
我们以 99% 的折扣购买了它。
We are definitely going to make money.
我们肯定会赚钱。
I felt confident.
我感到很有信心。
We all did.
我们都这么做了。
Act Two: An Old Man Chooses Between Logic and Morals.
第二幕：一位老人在逻辑和道德之间做出选择。
Logic Wins.
逻辑获胜。
Ira Glass Act Two, An Old Man Chooses Between Logic and Morals, Logic Wins.
艾拉·格拉斯第二幕，一位老人在逻辑和道德之间做出选择，逻辑获胜。
On January 22, David and Chana took their toxic asset back to the New York office, introduced it around to their colleagues, created a place on the corner window sill for the stack of paperwork.
1 月 22 日，David 和 Chana 将他们的有毒资产带回纽约办公室，将其介绍给同事，并在角落窗台上腾出一个地方来放置一堆文件。
And then stared at it, flipped through it.
然后盯着它看，翻阅它。
They considered some questions that in the end took them eight months to answer.
他们考虑了一些问题，最终花了八个月的时间才回答。
What did they just buy?
他们刚刚买了什么？
Who did they buy it from?
他们从谁那里买的？
Whose mortgages were actually in it?
实际上是谁的抵押贷款？
It was time to begin their archaeological investigation of their own toxic asset.
是时候开始对他们自己的有毒资产进行考古调查了。
Somewhere inside there, there were real people, real homeowners, with real houses.
在里面的某个地方，有真实的人，真实的房主，拥有真实的房子。
The stack of 300 pages did not identify who those real people were.
这叠 300 页的书无法辨认出那些真实的人是谁。
It's actually kind of fun having a toxic asset.
拥有有毒资产实际上很有趣。
David set up a live toxic asset web cam so he could stare at it all the time, just gaze at the stack of paper.
大卫设置了一个实时有毒资产网络摄像头，这样他就可以一直盯着它，只盯着那叠纸。
I thought other people might want to see it too.
我想其他人可能也想看。
Sometimes I'd sit things on it, like flowers, or a bottle of Tylenol.
有时我会在上面放一些东西，比如花或一瓶泰诺。
We go to a toxic asset investor conference, we start reading obscure trade publications.
我们参加有毒资产投资者会议，我们开始阅读晦涩的贸易出版物。
And the toxic asset starts to feel like a pet.
有毒资产开始变得像宠物一样。
We ask our listeners what we should call it and it gets a name, Toxie.
我们询问听众应该如何称呼它，它得到了一个名字：Toxie。
And it gets a gender-- we all start referring to it as she for some reason.
而且它有性别——出于某种原因我们都开始用她来称呼它。
Which always seemed completely unfair to me, since the one thing we can be almost 100% sure of is that this thing was created by men.
这对我来说似乎完全不公平，因为我们几乎可以 100% 确定的一件事是，这个东西是由人类创造的。
But whatever, yes, it's nice that people start to connect with her slash it.
但无论如何，是的，很高兴人们开始与她联系起来。
One listener wrote a song for Toxie.
一位听众为 Toxie 写了一首歌。
[MUSIC - "THE TOXIE SONG" BY JAMES GAMMON]
[音乐 - 詹姆斯·加蒙 (JAMES GAMMON) 的“THE TOXIE SONG”]
We spend a lot of time staring at this spreadsheet that came with Toxie.
我们花了很多时间盯着 Toxie 附带的电子表格。
It lists all the mortgages, 2,000 of them, and financial data about the loans, but it doesn't give us what we need-- addresses and names.
它列出了所有抵押贷款（其中 2,000 项）以及有关贷款的财务数据，但它没有提供我们需要的信息——地址和姓名。
It just has zip codes.
它只有邮政编码。
It's sort of like this map that you can't quite read.
这有点像这张你无法完全阅读的地图。
So in the spring, we call an investigative reporter to help us find some of the people in the spreadsheet.
因此，在春天，我们致电调查记者，帮助我们找到电子表格中的一些人。
Michael Braga with the Sarasota Herald Tribune in Florida.
佛罗里达州《萨拉索塔先驱论坛报》的迈克尔·布拉加 (Michael Braga)。
Sarasota, the very city that popped up over and over again when Wit showed us the loans and Toxie on his computer screen.
萨拉索塔，当 Wit 在他的电脑屏幕上向我们展示贷款和 Toxie 时，这座城市一遍又一遍地出现。
So Michael went through public records databases, took him about a day, and he came up with nine names.
因此，迈克尔浏览了公共记录数据库，花了大约一天的时间，想出了九个名字。
Nine precious names of Sarasotans with homes in Toxie.
九个在托克西拥有家园的萨拉索坦人的珍贵名字。
We printed out the list and then stared at it.
我们打印了清单，然后盯着它看。
And then we stared at the phone.
然后我们就盯着电话。
What are we going to say to them?
我们要对他们说什么？
You're part of our toxic asset?
你是我们有毒资产的一部分？
All right, let's call.
好吧，我们打电话吧。
We got wrong numbers, we left a lot of voice mails for people who didn't call us back.
我们接到了错误的号码，我们给那些没有给我们回电话的人留下了很多语音邮件。
We called this one dentist who didn't call us back.
我们给一位牙医打了电话，但他没有给我们回电话。
And we left a voice mail for this one very nice sounding couple.
我们给这对听起来很好的夫妇留下了语音邮件。
Hi, you've reached Sylvia and George, we can't get to the phone right now, but leave a message and we'll get back to you.
您好，您已联系到西尔维娅和乔治，我们现在无法接听电话，但请留言，我们会回复您。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Hi, George and Sylvia, this is David Kestenbaum, I'm a reporter with National Public Radio.
嗨，乔治和西尔维娅，我是大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆，我是国家公共广播电台的记者。
I'm calling to-- I'm calling to see if you own or purchased--
我打电话是为了--我打电话是想看看你是否拥有或购买--
You sound nervous.
你听起来很紧张。
David Kestenbaum Well, there's a lot to explain, right?
David Kestenbaum 嗯，有很多东西需要解释，对吧？
In a voice mail you have to say, oh, I'm a reporter for NPR, which you may not have heard of, and we bought a toxic asset, which, by the way, is a complicated bond, which has mortgages in it, and one of them is yours, and we want to talk to you and-- you know.
在语音邮件中，你必须说，哦，我是 NPR 的记者，你可能没有听说过，我们购买了一项有毒资产，顺便说一句，这是一种复杂的债券，里面有抵押贷款，其中一个是你的，我们想和你谈谈——你知道。
What's so awkward about this is this is probably the first time someone who invested in a toxic asset, who actually owned a homeowner's mortgage as part of one of these massive bonds, actually tried to get in touch with the homeowners.
令人尴尬的是，这可能是第一次有人投资有毒资产，实际上拥有房主抵押贷款，作为这些巨额债券的一部分，实际上试图与房主取得联系。
And think about what that means.
想想这意味着什么。
The genius of these mortgage backed securities was that they connected people with money to people who wanted to borrow.
这些抵押贷款支持证券的天才之处在于，它们将有钱的人与想要借款的人联系起来。
This happen to the tune of $3 trillion.
这发生在价值 3 万亿美元的事情上。
Hundreds of thousands of investors, millions of home buyers, but the two sides never met.
数十万投资者，数百万购房者，但双方从未见过面。
Until now.
到目前为止。
Eventually, we found a homeowner, Richard Koenig.
最终，我们找到了一位房主，理查德·科尼格。
And this was very exciting.
这非常令人兴奋。
Half the homeowners in our toxic asset had stopped paying their mortgages-- half-- and Richard Koenig was one of them--he was not paying us.
我们有毒资产中的一半房主已经停止支付抵押贷款——一半——理查德·科尼格就是其中之一——他没有付钱给我们。
When we got him on the phone, he said, "Sure, come on down." So we flew to Sarasota to meet him and drove to his house.
当我们给他打电话时，他说：“当然，下来吧。”所以我们飞往萨拉索塔去见他，然后开车去他家。
Hi, Richard.
嗨，理查德。
Nice to meet you.
很高兴见到你。
He's getting his mail.
他正在收到邮件。
What if there's a statement from the bank in there.
如果里面有银行的声明怎么办？
Richard Koenig is 81 years old, lives in Sarasota, owes us money, and is nothing like we expected.
理查德·科尼格 (Richard Koenig) 81 岁了，住在萨拉索塔，欠我们钱，而且和我们想象的完全不一样。
First of all, he doesn't look like a deadbeat.
首先，他看起来不像是一个赖账的人。
I don't have horns.
我没有角。
I don't have much hair.
我的头发不多。
Still have a good sense of humor.
还是有很好的幽默感。
My baby.
我的宝贝。
I love my baby.
我爱我的宝贝。
Chana Joffe-Walt I know some dog lovers, I have never met somebody as in love with their dog as Richard is with Muffin.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特（Chana Joffe-Walt） 我认识一些爱狗人士，我从未见过像理查德对松饼那样热爱他们的狗的人。
So Richard Koenig took us to the actual house that is in our toxic asset, the one that we've been looking at on this spreadsheet.
因此，理查德·科尼格（Richard Koenig）带我们去了有毒资产中的实际房屋，也就是我们在电子表格上查看的那栋房子。
We got to see it.
我们必须看到它。
Oh, it's nice.
哦，这很好。
Chana Joffe-Walt Very nice.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 非常好。
You cannot believe what was done to this place.
你无法相信这个地方发生了什么。
Maybe when you think about toxic assets you picture rundown homes falling apart, overgrown lawns.
也许当你想到有毒资产时，你会想到破败的房屋倒塌、杂草丛生的草坪。
Uh-uh, this place is really lovely.
呃呃，这个地方真的很可爱。
It's a condo on a little pond in a tidy housing development.
这是一个位于一个小池塘上的公寓，位于一个整洁的住宅开发区。
It's Richard second home.
这是理查德的第二个家。
He planned to move out of his bigger place with his wife and into the condo.
他计划和妻子一起搬出更大的住处，搬进公寓。
That'd be more manageable as he grows older.
随着年龄的增长，这会更容易管理。
So in 2005, Richard took out a $300,000 mortgage.
2005年，理查德申请了30万美元的抵押贷款。
And then the housing market fell apart, and Richard found he owed more on this house than it's worth.
然后房地产市场崩溃了，理查德发现他欠这栋房子的钱比它的价值还要多。
So he decided to stay in the house he already lives in and walk away from the condo by the pond.
所以他决定留在他已经住的房子里，并离开池塘边的公寓。
After Richard showed us his real live house, we showed him what it looked like from our end.
在理查德向我们展示了他真正的现场演出后，我们向他展示了我们这边的样子。
There he is just this little line in our spreadsheet that reads, CCC36999.
他只是我们电子表格中的一小行，上面写着：CCC36999。
And that nine stands for 90 days delinquent or more, so a bunch of nines in a row means he hasn't been paying his mortgage for a long time.
这 9 代表拖欠 90 天或以上，所以连续的 9 意味着他已经很长时间没有支付抵押贷款了。
So we show him all of the toxic asset paperwork, all 300 pages.
因此，我们向他展示了所有有毒资产文件，全部 300 页。
This is what it looks like.
这就是它的样子。
This is where your mortgage ended up.
这就是您的抵押贷款结束的地方。
Unbelievable, isn't it?
难以置信，不是吗？
My God.
我的上帝。
My eyes couldn't accommodate it.
我的眼睛无法适应它。
I'm not going to live long enough to go through that pile of-- pile of poop.
我活不了多久，就无法经历那堆——一堆粪便。
Did you have a picture of us?
你有我们的照片吗？
Like when you were writing your checks, who you were sending them to?
就像当你写支票时，你要把它们寄给谁？
Oh, you mean at the bank.
哦，你是说在银行。
No. No, to me, banks-- unless I know the individual, a bank is a blank face.
不，不，对我来说，银行——除非我认识这个人，否则银行就是一张空白的脸。
It's a non-living creature.
它是一种无生命的生物。
Of course, it wasn't a bank, or a non-living creature.
当然，它不是银行，也不是非生物。
Yeah, but not you personally.
是的，但不是你个人。
Now, had you been the recipients on a personal basis, after having met you, I'd write you the check.
现在，如果您是个人收款人，在见到您之后，我会给您写支票。
How's that?
怎么样？
And do I feel sorry for the investors?
我是否为投资者感到难过？
Sure I do.
我当然知道。
I'm a sensitive person, you know?
我是一个敏感的人，你知道吗？
I really am.
我确实是。
I love my wife, I love my dog, I love my children and my grandkids.
我爱我的妻子，我爱我的狗，我爱我的孩子和孙子。
Yeah, I'd feel badly.
是的，我会感觉很糟糕。
We don't hold it against you.
我们并不反对你。
Richard Koenig Good.
理查德·柯尼格 好。
Please don't.
请不要。
And really, I don't.
真的，我不知道。
Richard is under water on the house.
理查德的房子被水淹没了。
He owes more than it's worth, and he has a home, so he can walk away from this second house.
他欠下的债超过了其价值，而且他有一个家，所以他可以离开第二套房子。
It's going to kill his perfect credit rating, but he doesn't really need good credit anymore.
这会毁掉他完美的信用评级，但他真的不再需要良好的信用了。
He's 81 years old, he's probably never going to need to borrow money again.
他已经81岁了，可能再也不需要借钱了。
So it makes sense for him to just walk away.
所以他走开也是有道理的。
Well, maybe logically it makes sense, but he did make a commitment.
好吧，也许从逻辑上讲这是有道理的，但他确实做出了承诺。
He gave his word.
他做出了承诺。
That's not nothing, that's what it means to be an adult, someone gives you money, you pay it back.
这不是什么，这就是作为一个成年人的意思，有人给你钱，你还钱。
And if the value of his house kept going up, he probably would have continued to pay it back.
如果他的房子的价值持续上涨，他可能会继续偿还。
That would have been the logical thing to do.
这本来是合乎逻辑的事情。
But the logic changed.
但逻辑发生了变化。
So his morals changed too.
所以他的道德也发生了变化。
David Kestenbaum Was it a hard emotional decision to walk away from that house?
David Kestenbaum 离开那所房子是一个艰难的情感决定吗？
Well, yeah, it went against everything that I was ever taught to believe.
嗯，是的，这违背了我被教导要相信的一切。
You know, you just don't turn your back and say, goodbye, good luck.
你知道，你只是不会转身说再见，祝你好运。
So from that perspective, yes, it did bother me.
所以从这个角度来看，是的，这确实困扰着我。
But if I have to compromise the way I live, I'm really not going to do that.
但如果我必须妥协我的生活方式，我真的不会那样做。
Not at almost 82 years old.
还没有快82岁了。
I really had no choice.
我真的别无选择。
Well, you did have a choice.
好吧，你确实有选择。
You could have kept paying it.
你本来可以继续付钱的。
I could have kept paying for it?
我可以继续付钱吗？
Not really.
并不真地。
You know, at my age, to have payments like that, and a large income no longer a large income, it didn't make any sense at all.
你知道，在我这个年纪，有这样的报酬，大收入不再是大收入，根本没有任何意义。
There are lots of Richards these days.
现在有很多理查兹。
In fact, the moral compass of the entire country is shifting.
事实上，整个国家的道德指南针正在发生变化。
So much so that there is a name for what Richard is doing.
以至于理查德所做的事情有了一个名字。
Walking away from your home like this?
就这样离家出走吗？
It's called a strategic default.
这就是所谓的战略默认。
I'm unaware of strategic default from the residential sector happening on this scale in American history.
我不知道美国历史上曾发生过如此规模的住宅部门战略性违约。
This is Mary Kinsley, a lawyer in Arizona.
我是玛丽·金斯利，亚利桑那州的一名律师。
And Mary talked to our Planet Money colleague and co-toxic asset investor, Alex Blumberg.
玛丽与我们的 Planet Money 同事、同毒资产投资者 Alex Blumberg 进行了交谈。
Mary's job is to answer phones at a help line for people with real estate questions.
玛丽的工作是为有房地产问题的人接听帮助热线电话。
She says just two years ago, people would call up in tears facing foreclosure, agonizing about how to save their homes.
她说，就在两年前，人们在面临丧失抵押品赎回权的情况下会流着泪打电话来，为如何拯救自己的家园而苦恼。
Then, just one year later, everything changed.
然后，仅仅一年后，一切都发生了变化。
Now, it's almost a reverse.
现在，情况几乎逆转了。
I'm speaking to people, for the most part, who want to know, "How can I make the bank foreclose on this faster?" And I talk to quite a few people who say, "Hm, perfect credit score versus $80,000 in my pocket and not upside down on this house anymore." It's really not-- it's a business decision, rather than emotional decisions.
我正在与大多数人交谈，他们想知道，“我怎样才能让银行更快地取消抵押品赎回权？”我和很多人交谈，他们说：“嗯，完美的信用评分，而我口袋里有 80,000 美元，而且这栋房子不再颠倒了。”其实不是——这是一个商业决定，而不是情感决定。
And these are people who could continue to pay their mortgage?
这些人可以继续支付抵押贷款吗？
Yes.
是的。
It's not illegal to breach a contract.
违反合同并不违法。
And that's essentially what it is, it's a breach of contract.
本质上就是这样，这是违反合同的行为。
And one of the dirty little secrets of real estate is businesses do it all the time.
房地产的肮脏小秘密之一是企业一直在这样做。
Strategic defaults are going to happen anytime you have plunging home values.
只要房屋价值暴跌，战略性违约就会发生。
But they were particularly bad because of something else that was going on-- another feature of the housing crisis that also shows up in our toxic asset-- speculation.
但它们尤其糟糕，因为正在发生的其他事情——房地产危机的另一个特征也出现在我们的有毒资产中——投机。
This is one of ours?
这是我们的一员吗？
Michael Braga Yeah, this is one of yours, that's your house.
迈克尔·布拉加（Michael Braga）是的，这是你的一间，那是你的房子。
This is Michael Braga, the investigative reporter who's been helping us.
这是迈克尔·布拉加 (Michael Braga)，一直在帮助我们的调查记者。
This house we're looking at was bought in 2005, at the height of the bubble.
我们看中的这栋房子是 2005 年购买的，当时正是泡沫最严重的时期。
But it seems like no one ever moved in, and unlike Richard's condo, it looks like no one ever intended to.
但似乎从来没有人搬进去，而且与理查德的公寓不同，看起来从来没有人打算搬进去。
Today there are dead palm trees in the front yard with the tops cut off, just eight feet of trunk sticking out of the ground.
今天，前院里有枯死的棕榈树，树顶被砍掉，只有八英尺长的树干伸出地面。
But the house has promise.
但房子有希望。
Yeah, that's Sarasota Bay.
是的，那是萨拉索塔湾。
And the pool is a little green, which means that they haven't put chlorine in it.
而且泳池有点绿，说明他们没有往里面放氯。
And all the blinds are down.
所有的百叶窗都放下了。
I can peek inside.
我可以往里看。
Michael Braga Inside, there's some nice white couches, and a bar that looks into the kitchen, oh, and it looks like a Brady Bunch stair case that leads up to the second floor.
迈克尔·布拉加 (Michael Braga) 里面有一些漂亮的白色沙发，还有一个可以看到厨房的吧台，哦，它看起来像布雷迪·邦奇 (Brady Bunch) 的楼梯，通向二楼。
This house was bought not as a dream home, not even as a second home-- it was bought in 2005 by a man named Derek Taaca.
这所房子并不是作为梦想家园购买的，甚至不是作为第二个家——它是由一位名叫德里克·塔卡 (Derek Taaca) 的男子于 2005 年购买的。
Braga tells us Taaca is a local lawyer, a purple belt Jiu Jitsu martial artist, and a real estate speculator.
布拉加告诉我们，塔卡是当地一名律师、紫带柔术武术家和房地产投机商。
Derek Taaca ultimately defaulted on five loans, totaling $3.6 million, including the $991,000 loan that is in your toxic asset.
德里克·塔卡 (Derek Taaca) 最终拖欠了五笔贷款，总额为 360 万美元，其中包括您有毒资产中的 991,000 美元贷款。
Taaca did not return our phone calls.
塔卡没有回复我们的电话。
But his story is not unusual.
但他的故事并不罕见。
Of the nine people we tracked down in Florida, three were investors like Taaca-- they were speculators.
我们在佛罗里达州找到的九个人中，有三个是像塔卡这样的投资者——他们是投机者。
And it turns out, three out of nine was typical all over the country.
事实证明，九分之三在全国都是典型的。
According to one estimate, a third of homes bought during the bubble were investments.
据估计，泡沫期间购买的房屋中有三分之一是投资。
Waitresses, cab drivers, executives all bought homes, not to live in, but to make them money.
女服务员、出租车司机、高管都买房子，不是为了住，而是为了赚钱。
In Florida, you can see it all over.
在佛罗里达州，你可以看到这一切。
Homes built, dry wall hung, air conditioners installed, and no one ever moved in.
房屋盖好了，挂了干墙，安装了空调，却没有人搬进去。
They were empty in 2005, and they're still empty now.
2005年它们是空的，现在仍然是空的。
So if one third were speculators, that still leaves 2/3.
因此，如果三分之一是投机者，还剩下 2/3。
2/3 of the people in our toxic asset probably bought their homes to live in.
我们有毒资产中 2/3 的人可能买了房子来居住。
Some are still making their payments, some are going through defaults-- not strategic defaults, they don't have a choice.
有些人仍在付款，有些人正在经历违约——不是战略性违约，他们别无选择。
Act Three, Flipper: Not the Dolphin.
第三幕，鳍状肢：不是海豚。
When David and Chana went to Florida to find some of the home owners in their toxic asset, they were not expecting speculators, or an 81 year old with a new set of morals.
当大卫和查纳前往佛罗里达州寻找有毒资产的一些房主时，他们并没有想到投机者，也没有想到一位拥有新道德的 81 岁老人。
And they certainly didn't expect to walk into a crime scene, which is what happened next.
他们当然没有想到会走进犯罪现场，这就是接下来发生的事情。
I should just say that, if you've heard a little bit about mortgage fraud in this crisis, this next story will finally explain exactly what mortgage fraud means.
我只想说，如果您对这场危机中的抵押贷款欺诈有所了解，那么下一个故事将最终准确解释抵押贷款欺诈的含义。
Here's David and Chana.
这是大卫和查纳。
So I'm sitting at my desk, right around the time of our trip to Florida, looking through some court documents, you know, just doing some reporting for our trip.
所以，就在我们去佛罗里达旅行的时候，我坐在办公桌前，浏览一些法庭文件，你知道，只是为我们的旅行做一些报告。
And there's this affidavit filed by an FBI agent listing a handful of mortgages that are apparently fraudulent.
联邦调查局特工提交的一份宣誓书列出了一些明显具有欺诈性的抵押贷款。
There's 202 Island Circle, 1628 Bay Winds Lane-- I'm sort of half paying attention.
环岛路 202 号，湾风巷 1628 号——我有点没注意。
And then I see this one address-- it's George and Sylvia Bobka.
然后我看到这个地址——是乔治和西尔维娅·博布卡。
Remember them?
还记得他们吗？
Hi, you've reached Sylvia and George, we can't get to the phone right now, but leave a message and we'll get back to you.
您好，您已联系到西尔维娅和乔治，我们现在无法接听电话，但请留言，我们会回复您。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I remember you sent me a heavily exclamation pointed text when that happened, David.
我记得发生这种情况时，你给我发了一条带有感叹号的短信，大卫。
It was so surprising.
太令人惊讶了。
I mean there are thousands and thousands of homes in the county, a handful end up listed in this affidavit, and one of them is in our Toxie?
我的意思是，该县有成千上万的房屋，其中少数最终被列在这份宣誓书中，其中一个在我们的 Toxie 中？
We got the court documents from Michael Braga at the Sarasota Herald Tribune .
我们从《萨拉索塔先驱论坛报》的迈克尔·布拉加那里得到了法庭文件。
And it turns out, our Toxie is linked to what could be a $100 million mortgage fraud scheme they've been reporting on.
事实证明，我们的 Toxie 与他们一直在报道的一个可能价值 1 亿美元的抵押贷款欺诈计划有关。
Michael told us the whole thing was masterminded by one guy, a guy the folks at the Herald Tribune called the king of the flip.
迈克尔告诉我们，整件事都是由一个人策划的，这个人被《先驱论坛报》的人们称为空翻之王。
He just may be the biggest case of mortgage fraud in US history.
他可能是美国历史上最大的抵押贷款欺诈案。
And his name is Craig Adams.
他的名字叫克雷格·亚当斯。
And he engineered more than 80 deals, which he has told the FBI about, that were in some way fraudulent.
他已向联邦调查局通报了 80 多笔交易，这些交易在某种程度上都存在欺诈行为。
Those 80 deals, properties, were worth about $200 million.
这 80 笔交易、房产价值约为 2 亿美元。
So Chana, before when I'd heard about mortgage fraud, I always thought of some couple fudging something on their mortgage application, but this is much, much larger.
所以查纳，以前当我听说抵押贷款欺诈时，我总是想到一些夫妇在他们的抵押贷款申请上捏造了一些东西，但这次的规模要大得多。
No, in Florida, mortgage fraud appears to have been pretty widespread and organized.
不，在佛罗里达州，抵押贷款欺诈似乎相当普遍且有组织。
The reporters at the Sarasota Herald Tribune have been looking into this one circle, led by Craig Adams, the king of the flip.
《萨拉索塔先驱论坛报》的记者们一直在调查这个由空翻之王克雷格·亚当斯领导的圈子。
And it was a kind of fraud scheme based on flipping houses back and forth for higher and higher prices.
这是一种基于以越来越高的价格来回炒房的欺诈计划。
So people taking out larger and larger loans from the bank, and dividing that money up amongst themselves, among the people in the circle.
因此，人们从银行提取越来越多的贷款，并将这些钱在他们自己和圈子里的人之间分配。
We're going to look at how this apparently worked by following one house, this is a house on Cove Terrace in Sarasota, Florida.
我们将通过跟踪一栋房子来看看这显然是如何运作的，这是佛罗里达州萨拉索塔 Cove Terrace 上的一栋房子。
This one is not in our toxic asset, but George and Sylvia Bobka's house is connected to the same scheme, and their house is right down the street.
这个不属于我们的有毒资产，但乔治和西尔维娅·博布卡的房子与同一个计划有关，而且他们的房子就在街上。
So the story of what happened at Cove Terrace begins with a man who may be the very last person to have truly loved this house.
因此，海湾露台发生的故事始于一个男人，他可能是最后一个真正热爱这所房子的人。
The last percent to own it before it was sold into the circle of flippers.
在它被卖进炒货圈之前拥有它的最后百分之一。
Fred Bloom is my name.
弗莱德·布鲁姆是我的名字。
Chana Joffe-Walt Fred Bloom?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特·弗莱德·布鲁姆？
Fred Bloom.
弗莱德·布鲁姆。
Isn't Dr. Bloom a perfect name for an allergist?
布鲁姆博士对于过敏症专家来说不是一个完美的名字吗？
Dr. Bloom, the allergist, raised his two daughters in this house.
过敏症专科医生布鲁姆博士在这所房子里抚养了他的两个女儿。
And it's a really nice place, it's on a quiet street, on a cul-de-sac, it's got four bedrooms, red tile roof, it's painted sort of like, you know that Florida, salmoney kind of color?
这是一个非常好的地方，它位于一条安静的街道上，在一条死胡同上，有四间卧室，红瓦屋顶，它的油漆有点像，你知道佛罗里达州的萨姆尼那种颜色吗？
And it has a pool and a boat dock.
它有一个游泳池和一个游船码头。
We had a little boat, and my kids enjoyed water skiing, and fishing, and family activities.
我们有一艘小船，我的孩子们喜欢滑水、钓鱼和家庭活动。
At the time I owned it, it was a two story family room, with windows up above, and you could sit there and watch lightning, and you could watch the sky.
当我拥有它时，它是一个两层楼的家庭房间，上面有窗户，你可以坐在那里看闪电，你可以看天空。
Just a warm, warm feeling room, with the big windows and light.
只是一个温暖、温暖的感觉的房间，有大窗户和光线。
So they were good years.
所以那是美好的岁月。
You can hear them sort of winding up now.
你现在可以听到他们正在结束。
That's right, because the kids grow up, huh?
没错，因为孩子们长大了，不是吗？
Exactly.
确切地。
It was a good time in our lives.
那是我们生命中的美好时光。
And there, appropriately, are the cicadas-- or whatever they are-- right as we get to the drama.
当我们进入戏剧时，那里正好有蝉——或者不管它们是什么。
The drama began the moment Dr. Bloom decided to sell this house that he had loved.
当布卢姆博士决定卖掉他心爱的房子的那一刻起，戏剧就开始了。
It occurred after my wife and I got divorced, and she moved out of town, and I stayed in the house trying to sell it, because she had half equity in the house.
事情发生在我和妻子离婚后，她搬出了城，我留在房子里试图卖掉它，因为她拥有房子一半的股权。
And it didn't sell, and it didn't sell, and it didn't sell.
结果没卖，没卖，没卖。
My wife wanted to get another Realtor, and we did, and she had the house for a three month contract.
我妻子想找另一位房地产经纪人，我们做到了，她得到了房子，签订了三个月的合同。
And then towards the end of her contract, she became very intent on trying to lower the price so we could sell it.
然后在合同即将结束时，她非常热心地试图降低价格，以便我们可以出售它。
What'd you think about that?
你对此有何看法？
Fred Bloom I wasn't happy about lowering the price, but my former wife was saying, I want my money, and the Realtor was saying, let's get it sold.
Fred Bloom 我对降低价格并不满意，但我的前妻说，我想要我的钱，而房地产经纪人则说，让我们把它卖掉。
And I wasn't happy about that, I was not happy about lowering the price.
我对此并不满意，我对降低价格并不满意。
And then we had an offer from Craig Adams.
然后我们收到了克雷格·亚当斯的邀请。
Now, we should just point out here that this was the year 2000.
现在，我们应该在这里指出，这是 2000 年。
Craig Adams was not known at this time as the king of the flip, or as the alleged ring leader of the largest mortgage fraud scheme in Florida history.
克雷格·亚当斯当时并不被认为是翻转之王，也不被认为是佛罗里达州历史上最大的抵押贷款欺诈计划的头目。
People called him something else.
人们叫他别的名字。
They called him real estate genius.
他们称他为房地产天才。
Craig's offer was very good.
克雷格的报价非常好。
It was right on the mark, and when he made the offer it was a fair price.
这是正确的，当他提出报价时，这是一个公平的价格。
It was like, this is good, take it and run.
就像，这很好，拿着它就跑。
It's been enough time.
时间已经够了。
This is a very good offer.
这是一个非常好的报价。
And I resisted as long as I could, and then decided the fight is over, so I caved in.
我尽我所能地抵抗，然后决定战斗已经结束，所以我屈服了。
Dr. Bloom sold the house for $600,000, much less than he wanted for it.
布鲁姆博士以 60 万美元的价格卖掉了这栋房子，远低于他想要的价格。
And then a few weeks later, he's at the grocery store buying groceries, and he runs into his former Cove Terrace neighbors, and he asks them, "Hey, how you doing?
几周后，他在杂货店买杂货，遇到了他以前在 Cove Terrace 的邻居，他问他们，“嘿，你们好吗？
How are the new people on the block?"
新来的人怎么样？”
And they told me that my house had sold again, and he mentioned the price of $725,000.
他们告诉我，我的房子又卖了，他提到价格为 725,000 美元。
And I was really upset.
我真的很沮丧。
I said, that's $125,000 more than I got for it, and that was only a matter of a couple of weeks.
我说，这比我得到的多了 125,000 美元，而且这只是几周的事情。
Oh, it was weeks?
哦，已经几周了？
Fred Bloom It was just a matter of a couple of weeks.
弗雷德·布鲁姆（Fred Bloom） 这只是几周的事情。
I was not happy.
我不高兴。
Dr. Bloom had no idea what was going on, and he didn't for 10 years, until he gets a phone call from one of the reporters at the Sarasota Herald Tribune .
布卢姆博士不知道发生了什么事，他已经有 10 年不知道了，直到他接到《萨拉索塔先驱论坛报》一位记者的电话。
So the Sarasota Herald Tribune was looking into what seemed like a lot of illegal flipping around Florida, and Craig Adams's name came up several times including, on the Cove Terrace house.
因此，《萨拉索塔先驱论坛报》正在调查佛罗里达州发生的大量非法翻转事件，克雷格·亚当斯的名字多次出现，包括在 Cove Terrace 的房子上。
So one of the reporters, Matthew Doig, calls up Dr. Bloom, and he says, "Do you remember the details of selling that house?" Thinking Bloom probably won't remember anything, it's been 10 years.
因此，其中一位记者马修·多伊格（Matthew Doig）打电话给布鲁姆博士，他说：“你还记得出售那栋房子的细节吗？”想着布鲁姆可能什么都不记得了，已经过去十年了。
But Bloom remembered every detail of the sale, he had held onto this resentment and to this mystery for 10 years.
但布卢姆记得这次买卖的每一个细节，他一直怀着这种怨恨和这个谜团长达十年之久。
Why did he try to sell, for over a year, try to sell his house for $700,000, and eventually have to sell it for $600,000, and then weeks later, this guy Craig Adams turns around and sells it for $725,000.
为什么他试图卖掉，一年多了，试图以 70 万美元的价格卖掉他的房子，最终不得不以 60 万美元的价格出售，然后几周后，克雷格·亚当斯这个家伙转身以 725,000 美元的价格卖掉了它。
Here's that reporter, Matthew Doig.
这位记者是马修·多伊格。
After Dr. Bloom is out of the picture, that house is completely controlled by Craig Adams, and every time it is sold, Adams is representing both the buyer and the seller.
布鲁姆博士退出后，那栋房子完全由克雷格·亚当斯控制，每次出售时，亚当斯都代表买家和卖家。
So he's completely controlling the process.
所以他完全控制了这个过程。
And that house sold many, many times.
那房子卖了很多很多次。
And in fact, to Dr. Bloom, it looked like he sold the house to Craig Adams, but Craig Adams actually got his friend Steve Wexler to sign for it.
事实上，在布鲁姆博士看来，他似乎把房子卖给了克雷格·亚当斯，但克雷格·亚当斯实际上让他的朋友史蒂夫·韦克斯勒签了名。
So Steve Wexler buys it from Dr. Bloom, and then Steve Wexler sells it to John Keyworth for $725,000, who sells it to Craig Adams-- who actually buys it at one point-- for $1.1 million, who sells it to Kelly West for almost one and a half million, who sells it again to Charles Scott Abel for close to $2 million.
因此，史蒂夫·韦克斯勒从布鲁姆博士手中买下了它，然后史蒂夫·韦克斯勒以 725,000 美元的价格将其卖给了约翰·基沃斯，约翰·基沃斯又以 110 万美元的价格卖给了克雷格·亚当斯（Craig Adams）——他曾一度购买过它——然后又以近 150 万美元的价格卖给了凯利·韦斯特，凯利·韦斯特又以接近 200 万美元的价格将其卖给了查尔斯·斯科特·阿贝尔。
So it sells five times in four years, and basically triples in price.
所以四年内卖了五次，价格基本上翻了三倍。
Yeah, and Dr. Bloom the whole time is really perplexed about what is happening.
是的，布鲁姆博士一直对正在发生的事情感到困惑。
He still lives in the neighborhood, and the house keeps going up in price, but it doesn't look better.
他还住在附近，房子不断涨价，但看上去也不见好转。
It kind of looks worse.
看起来有点糟糕。
Occasionally I would drive by the house and drive through the neighborhood, and at various times the yard was really in disrepair.
偶尔我会开车经过房子，穿过附近的街区，有时院子确实年久失修。
When it was in disrepair, did it look like no one was living here?
年久失修的时候，看起来好像没有人住在这里吗？
So the way the Tribune lays this out, Keyworth, Wexler, all these guys were connected to Adams.
所以《论坛报》的报道方式是，基沃斯、韦克斯勒，所有这些人都与亚当斯有联系。
They were part of his circle.
他们是他圈子的一部分。
The idea here is that with each sale, the new owner would take out a mortgage loan and use that to pay the previous owner for the house.
这里的想法是，每次出售时，新房主都会申请抵押贷款，并用它来支付前房主的房子费用。
The previous owner has now made money, because he sold it for more than he bought it for.
以前的主人现在赚了钱，因为他卖的钱比买的钱还多。
And that profit, allegedly, gets split among the players.
据称，这笔利润会在玩家之间分配。
So I borrow $600,000 from the bank to buy the house, and then a year later, I sell it to my buddy Keyworth for $800,000.
于是我从银行借了60万美元买了房子，一年后，我以80万美元的价格把它卖给了我的好友Keyworth。
Keyworth gets a loan from the bank, $800,000.
Keyworth 从银行获得了 80 万美元的贷款。
And since we're working together, we now have just made $200,000 to split between us.
由于我们一起工作，我们现在刚刚赚了 200,000 美元，可以在我们之间平分。
That's the allegation anyway, it's still working its way through the legal system.
无论如何，这就是指控，它仍在通过法律系统进行处理。
When the housing bubble popped in 2007, the Cove Terrace house was owned by yet another associate of Craig Adams's, and he defaults on more than $2 million in loans.
2007 年房地产泡沫破灭时，Cove Terrace 的房子归克雷格·亚当斯 (Craig Adams) 的另一位合伙人所有，他拖欠了超过 200 万美元的贷款。
The bank forecloses on the house.
银行取消了房子的赎回权。
And this is when Candy Swick, Dr. Bloom's real estate agent, finally figures out something funny has been going on.
这时，布卢姆博士的房地产经纪人坎迪·斯威克终于发现发生了一些有趣的事情。
She has another client interested in the Cove Terrace house, and for the second time, 10 years later, she pulls up the listing.
她的另一位客户对 Cove Terrace 的房子感兴趣，十年后，她第二次调出了清单。
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
Chana Joffe-Walt What did it look like?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 它是什么样子的？
It looked like it had been sold every couple of years.
看起来每隔几年就会被出售一次。
And I see, Craig Adams, listed and sold.
我看到，克雷格·亚当斯（Craig Adams）已上市并出售。
Craig Adams, listed and sold.
克雷格·亚当斯（Craig Adams），上市并出售。
Craig Adams, listed and sold.
克雷格·亚当斯（Craig Adams），上市并出售。
Craig Adams, listed and sold.
克雷格·亚当斯（Craig Adams），上市并出售。
And it's like, this is not right.
这就像，这是不对的。
Not right and isn't it also stupid?
不对，这不是也很愚蠢吗？
This is the thing that always confused me about this kind of fraud.
这就是我对这种诈骗行为一直感到困惑的地方。
Because at the end of the day, all you've done is inflate the value of a house and take out larger and larger loans.
因为归根结底，你所做的就是抬高房屋的价值并获得越来越大的贷款。
And at the end, you've just got this bigger loan than you started with.
最后，你得到了比开始时更大的贷款。
You've still got to repay that.
你还是要偿还的。
What the hell were the people in this circle thinking?
这个圈子里的人到底在想什么？
Well, in some ways, it could be the perfect crime.
嗯，从某些方面来说，这可能是一次完美的犯罪。
The last guy defaults on the house, as he did with Craig Adams's house, and that guy's credit is ruined, but he and everyone else gets to keep the money from the sales.
最后一个人拖欠了房子，就像他对克雷格·亚当斯的房子所做的那样，那个人的信用被毁了，但他和其他人都可以保留销售所得的钱。
And it's a lot of money.
而且这是很多钱。
Though Guy Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance , says he doesn't think these guys were that methodical.
尽管《抵押贷款金融内部》的出版商盖伊·塞卡拉表示，他认为这些人没有那么有条理。
There wasn't a great exit strategy.
没有一个很好的退出策略。
In hindsight, these weren't geniuses figuring out these plans, because they had a lot of pitfalls.
事后看来，这些计划并不是天才，因为他们有很多陷阱。
Most of them saw quick money right away and weren't figuring out how it was going to play out over time.
他们中的大多数人立即看到了快钱，但没有弄清楚随着时间的推移它会如何发挥作用。
Craig Adams, the king of the flip, is now an FBI informant, helping the feds investigate the circle, according to the guys at the Herald Tribune .
据《先驱论坛报》的人士透露，翻转之王克雷格·亚当斯现在是联邦调查局的线人，帮助联邦调查局调查这个圈子。
The closing agent, who did a lot of the paper work for Craig Adams's deals on this, has been arrested.
为克雷格·亚当斯 (Craig Adams) 的交易做了大量文书工作的成交代理人已被捕。
Adams did not return our calls.
亚当斯没有回复我们的电话。
[MUSIC - "THE TOXIE SONG" BY JAMES GAMMON]
[音乐 - 詹姆斯·加蒙 (JAMES GAMMON) 的“THE TOXIE SONG”]
So, David, I think we can say that our dream that Toxie would be an encyclopedia of the financial crisis, that part's working out.
所以，大卫，我想我们可以说，托克西成为金融危机百科全书的梦想正在实现。
Yeah, she's got a retired guy walking away from his home, speculators, possibly fraud, and of course, some investors who bought the toxic asset without really knowing what the hell they were doing.
是的，她有一个退休的人离开了他的家，投机者，可能是欺诈，当然，还有一些购买有毒资产的投资者，但他们并不真正知道他们到底在做什么。
Us.
我们。
Ira Glass Coming up, why carpenters in New Jersey hate Toxie.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 即将登场，为什么新泽西州的木匠讨厌托克西 (Toxie)。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Toxie.
今天的节目，托克西。
We try to understand the entire economic crisis through the story of a single toxic asset.
我们试图通过单一有毒资产的故事来理解整个经济危机。
The reporters on our story today are Planet Money's David Kestenbaum and Chana Joffe-Walt.
今天报道我们故事的记者是 Planet Money 的 David Kestenbaum 和 Chana Joffe-Walt。
We've arrived at act four of our show.
我们已经到了演出的第四幕了。
Act Four, Villains and How to Sue Them.
第四幕，恶棍以及如何起诉他们。
January, February, these were happy months for Toxie, the toxic asset.
一月、二月，对于有毒资产 Toxie 来说，这是快乐的几个月。
Our team bought it in January for a thousand.
我们团队在一月份花了一千美元买了它。
In February, just like they hoped, first payment came in, a check for $141.
2 月份，正如他们所希望的那样，收到了第一笔付款，一张 141 美元的支票。
And then, things started to take a turn.
然后，事情开始发生转变。
March's check was a lot less-- $44.81.
3 月份的支票少了很多——44.81 美元。
Toxie was getting sick, quickly.
托克西病得很快。
So David and Chana called Wit Solberg in Kansas City, the guy who helped them buy Toxie in the first place.
于是，大卫和查纳给堪萨斯城的维特·索尔伯格（Wit Solberg）打电话，他是最初帮助他们收购 Toxie 的人。
Yeah.
是的。
I imagine you do.
我想你会的。
Ira Glass Questions with no clear answer.
Ira Glass 没有明确答案的问题。
Meanwhile, other things were happening.
与此同时，其他事情也在发生。
Chana got an email.
查娜收到一封电子邮件。
Looked urgent.
看起来很紧急。
Subject, do you know your toxic asset is being sued.
主题，你知道你的有毒资产正在被起诉吗？
Immediate thought, what the hell does that mean?
立即想到，这到底是什么意思？
In a moment of confusion, I thought, wait, are we being sued?
在一瞬间的困惑中，我想，等等，我们是不是被起诉了？
In the end, it turns out the lawsuit is against the creators of our toxic asset.
最后，事实证明，这起诉讼是针对我们有毒资产的创造者的。
And the man doing the suing is as close as we could ever get to Toxie's previous owner.
提起诉讼的男子与托克西的前任主人是最接近的。
When we bought Toxie in Kansas City, we had no idea who we were buying her from.
当我们在堪萨斯城买下 Toxie 时，我们不知道是从谁那里买的。
We pictured a bank, we pictured a Wall Street guy with a nice car driving down the West Side Highway.
我们想象一家银行，我们想象一个华尔街人士开着一辆漂亮的汽车沿着西区高速公路行驶。
And we kept searching for him.
我们一直在寻找他。
We called out for him on national radio, on television.
我们在国家广播电台和电视上呼吁他。
If you owned this bond, please get in touch with us.
如果您拥有该债券，请与我们联系。
We didn't hear anything.
我们什么也没听到。
We put an ad in what we imagined was his favorite publication, a newsletter called Asset Backed Alert, nothing.
我们在我们想象中他最喜欢的出版物上放了一则广告，一份名为“资产支持警报”的时事通讯，什么也没有。
But this law suit, this law suit got us someone close, a toxic asset investor who bought a close sibling of Toxie.
但这起诉讼，这起诉讼让我们找到了一个亲近的人，一个有毒资产投资者，他购买了 Toxie 的近亲兄弟。
His name is George Laufenberg.
他的名字叫乔治·劳芬伯格。
And meeting him, we realized, maybe we were looking in the wrong circles.
见到他，我们意识到，也许我们看错了圈子。
I'm actually a carpenter out of Local 623, Atlantic City, and I've been a member of the Carpenters Union since 1972, which puts me at about 38 years.
我实际上是大西洋城 623 区的一名木匠，自 1972 年以来一直是木匠联盟的成员，也就是说我今年大约 38 岁。
George is the administrative manager of the New Jersey Carpenters Funds.
乔治是新泽西木匠基金的行政经理。
He manages their pension fund, their health benefits, and their vacation fund.
他管理他们的养老基金、健康福利和假期基金。
He bought his Toxie as an investment for the vacation fund.
他购买了 Toxie 作为度假基金的投资。
And that is the last you're going to hear from George, because George, in his effort to sue Toxie's creators, has hired a lawyer, who prefers to speak for him.
这是你最后一次听到乔治的消息，因为乔治在起诉托克西的创造者的过程中聘请了一位律师，他更愿意为他说话。
George owns what you could call Toxie's younger sister.
乔治拥有你可以称之为托克西妹妹的人。
So Toxie's real name is HVMLT2005, that stands for Harbor View Mortgage Loan Trust 2005, because all the mortgages in ours were from 2005.
所以Toxie的真名是HVMLT2005，代表Harbor View Mortgage Loan Trust 2005，因为我们所有的抵押贷款都是2005年的。
The carpenters have HVMLT2006, so they bought the 2006 model with 2006 mortgages.
木匠有HVMLT2006，所以他们用2006年的抵押贷款购买了2006年的型号。
Same people put her together just a year later.
一年后，同样的人把她放在一起。
Though as George's lawyer is quick to point out, George bought his Toxie way back when no one knew she was Toxie.
尽管乔治的律师很快指出，乔治早在没人知道她是托克西的时候就买下了她。
He did not, like us, buy his as an experiment.
他没有像我们一样购买他的产品作为实验。
He didn't go to Kansas City to rifle through the bargain basement.
他去堪萨斯城并不是为了翻遍廉价商品的地下室。
He bought what he thought was a pristine investment grade bond and paid full price.
他购买了他认为是原始投资级债券并支付了全价。
The carpenters spent $100,000, and that investment is now worth just $5,000.
木匠们花了 10 万美元，这笔投资现在只值 5,000 美元。
So George the carpenter is furious, and he's trying to do something we've been trying to do-- figure out what's going on inside a single toxic asset.
所以木匠乔治很愤怒，他正试图做我们一直在尝试做的事情——弄清楚单个有毒资产内部发生了什么。
The only difference is, we have Google and a phone, the carpenters have a team of fancy Manhattan lawyers, including Joel Laitman.
唯一的区别是，我们有谷歌和电话，木匠有一支由曼哈顿高级律师组成的团队，其中包括乔尔·莱特曼。
It's a complex chain of people involved.
这是一个复杂的人员链条。
So is it hard sometimes to figure out who to sue?
那么有时很难弄清楚该起诉谁吗？
You just have to read the offering documents very carefully.
您只需非常仔细地阅读发售文件即可。
Just like 5,000 pages, right?
就像 5,000 页一样，对吗？
Joel Laitman Yeah.
乔尔·莱特曼 是的。
Just read them and read them again.
只需阅读它们并再次阅读它们即可。
We're sitting in this conference room, and in front of Joel Laitman there is a huge stack of papers, almost up to my collar bone, with colored tabs, big blocked out, highlighted sections, basically reconstructing, in more detail than what we have done, who made this monster?
我们坐在这个会议室里，乔尔·莱特曼面前有一大堆文件，几乎一直到我的锁骨，上面有彩色标签，大块的遮挡，突出显示的部分，基本上是重建，比我们所做的更详细，谁制造了这个怪物？
Who is at fault?
谁有错？
He's asking the question most of us would love to know an answer to.
他问的是我们大多数人都想知道答案的问题。
Who is to blame for these things?
这些事情应该归咎于谁呢？
Though, as a lawyer, he's asking that with a definite goal in mind-- who can he sue?
不过，作为一名律师，他提出这个问题时心里有一个明确的目标——他可以起诉谁？
Well, let's run through the possible suspects.
好吧，让我们来看看可能的嫌疑人。
Toxie's life, and the life of her sibling that the carpenters bought, started with a huge subprime mortgage lender, Countrywide.
托克西的生活，以及她被木匠买下的兄弟姐妹的生活，都是从一家大型次级抵押贷款机构 Countrywide 开始的。
Countrywide gave out all the loans in Toxie, all those loans that are going bad.
Countrywide发放了托克西的所有贷款，所有那些坏账的贷款。
But Countrywide collapsed.
但全国崩溃了。
They're not around anymore.
他们已经不在身边了。
OK, so how about the rating agencies?
好的，那么评级机构呢？
They rated this stuff as very good investments.
他们认为这些东西是非常好的投资。
Maybe you can sue them.
也许你可以起诉他们。
The lawyers tried that.
律师们尝试过这样做。
The judge dismissed it.
法官驳回了它。
Like most cases against rating agencies, the rating agencies argue, "We're just like movie critics or restaurant reviewers, we're expressing an opinion protected by the First Amendment."
与大多数针对评级机构的案件一样，评级机构辩称：“我们就像电影评论家或餐厅评论家一样，我们表达的是受第一修正案保护的意见。”
So that leaves the sellers of the toxic asset.
这样就只剩下有毒资产的卖家了。
In this case, the Royal Bank of Scotland, RBS.
在这种情况下，苏格兰皇家银行（RBS）。
They bought mortgages from Countrywide, packaged them into complex securities, and they were the guys who sold them as super safe investments to people like George the carpenter and his pension fund.
他们从 Countrywide 购买抵押贷款，将其打包成复杂的证券，然后将抵押贷款作为超级安全的投资出售给像木匠乔治和他的养老基金这样的人。
The problem with that is you can't just say, look, RBS sold me this thing that's now worthless.
问题是你不能只是说，看，苏格兰皇家银行卖给我的东西现在已经一文不值了。
RBS could always argue, we didn't know it was going to be worthless.
苏格兰皇家银行总是会争辩说，我们不知道它会变得毫无价值。
No, you have to show-- you have to prove-- they misled you in some way.
不，你必须证明——你必须证明——他们以某种方式误导了你。
And so Joel, the carpenters' lawyer, went on a quest for what is the smoking gun of securities lawyerdom-- a misstatement.
因此，木匠的律师乔尔继续寻找证券律师界确凿的证据——但这是一个错误的陈述。
A misstatement.
一个错误的陈述。
Not a bunch of secret emails conspiring against the carpenters, not a clandestine recording of an RBS banker plot.
不是一堆密谋反对木匠的秘密电子邮件，也不是苏格兰皇家银行银行家阴谋的秘密录音。
No, a tiny technical phrase, maybe a couple, buried deep in documents that came with the toxic asset that the lawyers can prove would mislead an investor.
不，一个微小的技术短语，也许是几个，深埋在有毒资产附带的文件中，律师可以证明这些短语会误导投资者。
To find a misstatement or omission, you have to read the whole thing, many times.
要找到错误陈述或遗漏，你必须多次阅读整篇文章。
Where is that, do you actually have that tagged?
那在哪里，你真的有这个标签吗？
Yeah, sure.
是的，当然。
Chana Joffe-Walt So here we're on page 81.
Chana Joffe-Walt 现在我们到了第 81 页。
It starts at 80-- this is mortgage loan origination is the section, Countrywide.
它从 80 开始——这是抵押贷款的起源，是全国范围内的部分。
All of this.
所有这一切。
Yeah, very exciting.
是的，非常令人兴奋。
It actually was exciting.
这实际上很令人兴奋。
Page 81 of the offering document put out by RBS when they sold the toxic asset, Laitman found what he thinks is his misstatement.
在苏格兰皇家银行出售有毒资产时发布的发售文件第 81 页，莱特曼发现了他认为是错误的陈述。
Three lines stating that the underlying collateral in the mortgage backed securities had underwriting guidelines that required a credit check-- a credit check that does not seem to have been performed on all of these loans.
三行内容表明，抵押贷款支持证券的基础抵押品具有需要信用检查的承保指南——似乎并未对所有这些贷款进行信用检查。
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a case.
女士们先生们，我们有一个案例。
There are offices of lawyers throughout the country searching for their page 81 right now.
全国各地的律师办公室现在都在搜索他们的第 81 页。
Because it's not just carpenters in New Jersey who want their money back.
因为想要拿回钱的不仅仅是新泽西州的木匠。
PIMCO, which manages the world's largest mutual fund, does too.
管理着全球最大共同基金的太平洋投资管理公司（PIMCO）也是如此。
So do Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, those huge government sponsored mortgage lenders that ended up with toxic assets.
房利美（Fannie Mae）和房地美（Freddie Mac）也是如此，这些政府资助的大型抵押贷款机构最终拥有了有毒资产。
And the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
还有纽约联邦储备银行。
The Fed, by the way, owns another of Toxie's close siblings.
顺便说一句，美联储拥有托克西的另一个亲密兄弟姐妹。
Investors all over the globe want their money back, potentially, $200 billion they believe they are owed, because somewhere, in some document, someone misrepresented what they were selling.
全球各地的投资者都希望收回自己的资金，他们认为自己可能欠了 2000 亿美元，因为在某些文件中，有人歪曲了他们所出售的资产。
These investors lost a lot of money, and they want someone to pay.
这些投资者损失了很多钱，他们希望有人来赔偿。
If you win, who pays you?
如果你赢了，谁付钱给你？
Joel Laitman It'll be the defendants who are in the case, so we're talking about--
乔尔·莱特曼：本案中的被告，所以我们谈论的是——
And that may sound satisfying, RBS sold these guys a bum investment.
这听起来可能令人满意，苏格兰皇家银行向这些人出售了一项错误的投资。
Who cares if it's a tiny misstatement in thousands of pages that probably no on ever read?
谁在乎这是否是数千页中可能没有人读过的微小错误陈述？
It's like Al Capone getting caught on tax evasion.
这就像阿尔·卡彭因逃税而被抓。
Justice is still being served, the little guy carpenters are getting justice from the big, rich, international bank.
正义仍在得到伸张，小木匠们正在从富有的国际大银行那里得到正义。
But-- David Kestenbaum But there's a but.
但是—— David Kestenbaum 但是还有一个但是。
Guess who owns RBS?
猜猜谁拥有苏格兰皇家银行？
The British taxpayers.
英国纳税人。
RBS, like other big banks, failed.
与其他大银行一样，苏格兰皇家银行也失败了。
RBS failed so spectacularly that the British government ended up taking over the bank, investing billions of dollars of taxpayer money to keep RBS afloat.
苏格兰皇家银行的失败如此惨重，以至于英国政府最终接管了该银行，并投入了数十亿美元的纳税人资金来维持苏格兰皇家银行的运营。
Which means, if this suit is successful, it won't be fat cat RBS bankers paying back the carpenters, it'll be regular British taxpayers.
这意味着，如果这场诉讼成功，偿还木匠费用的将不是苏格兰皇家银行的肥猫银行家，而是普通的英国纳税人。
What pub is this?
这是什么酒吧？
Chris Hayes The Marquis of Westminster, 50 Warwick Way, London, UK.
克里斯·海斯 (Chris Hayes) 威斯敏斯特侯爵，英国伦敦沃里克路 50 号。
You're the manager?
你是经理？
Chris Hayes I'm the owner.
克里斯·海斯 我是老板。
Are you a British tax payer?
您是英国纳税人吗？
Chris Hayes I am.
克里斯·海耶斯 我是。
And what do you know about the bail out of British banks?
您对英国银行的救助了解多少？
What do I know?
我知道什么？
I know that the banks lost money, and we paid-- I think the Royal Bank of Scotland-- 74% we bought them out.
我知道银行赔了钱，我们付了——我想是苏格兰皇家银行——74%的钱买下了它们。
Bought their [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
买了他们的[无法理解]。
You and the guys in your pub?
你和你酒吧里的人？
Chris Hayes Yeah.
克里斯·海耶斯 是的。
How did you feel about it?
你对此感觉如何？
Chris Hayes You know, I think it's outrageous.
克里斯·海耶斯（Chris Hayes）：你知道，我认为这太离谱了。
Because at the end of the day, these guys risk a hell of a lot, and if that risk pays off, they get paid a hell a lot of money.
因为归根结底，这些人冒了很大的风险，如果这种风险得到回报，他们就会得到很多钱。
I think it's disgusting, personally.
我个人认为这很恶心。
Did you feel like it was necessary, though?
不过你觉得有必要吗？
What, that we bailed them out?
什么，我们把他们保释了？
No, I'd let them go under.
不，我会让他们沉下去。
[BLEEP], that's what I say.
[BLEEP]，这就是我所说的。
Chris Hayes, the owner of the Marquis of Westminster pub.
克里斯·海斯（Chris Hayes），威斯敏斯特侯爵酒吧的老板。
And it's actually a lot worse than Chris thought.
事实上，情况比克里斯想象的要糟糕得多。
British taxpayers now have an 84% stake in the bank.
英国纳税人目前拥有该银行84%的股份。
I told him about the carpenters and how they lost so much money, how they were suing RBS, which, as a British citizen, Chris the pub owner now partially owns.
我告诉他木匠们的事，以及他们如何损失这么多钱，如何起诉苏格兰皇家银行，作为英国公民，酒吧老板克里斯现在拥有苏格兰皇家银行的部分股份。
And when I told him that, he got a little more thoughtful.
当我告诉他这一点时，他变得更加深思熟虑了。
When you buy something, I suppose you take the responsibility of what the company's done.
当你买东西时，我想你要对公司所做的事情负责。
So I suppose it's inevitable, really, to a certain degree.
所以我认为这在某种程度上是不可避免的。
We're buying into their mistakes, I suppose.
我想我们正在接受他们的错误。
If it's a bunch of average men on the street trying to get their money back, I suppose I wouldn't mind so much.
如果是街上一群普通人想拿回自己的钱，我想我不会那么介意。
I mean, if American Express or BP or somebody were filing the suit, then I'd be a little bit more reticent in giving the money.
我的意思是，如果美国运通或英国石油公司或其他人提起诉讼，那么我在提供资金方面会更加谨慎。
But, you know, it's a bunch of carpenters.
但是，你知道，这是一群木匠。
And good luck to them.
祝他们好运。
You don't mind if your money goes to them?
你不介意你的钱给他们吗？
No, I don't mind.
不，我不介意。
I mean, it's far removed from me, isn't it?
我的意思是，它离我很远，不是吗？
If I was asked to actually physically put my hand in my pocket and hand the money over, it'd be different, wouldn't it?
如果我被要求实际把手伸进口袋并把钱交出来，情况就会有所不同，不是吗？
That brings us to Act Five, Toxie in a Coma.
这就把我们带到了第五幕，昏迷中的托克西。
I Know, It's Serious.
我知道，这很严重。
After the initial scare in March, when our monthly check was only $44, Toxie looked like she was recovering.
在 3 月份最初的恐慌之后，当时我们的每月支票只有 44 美元，托克西看起来正在康复。
The next check we got in April was for almost double that-- $72.
我们四月份收到的下一张支票几乎是这个金额的两倍——72 美元。
But then, in May, a brutal wake up call from Wit Solberg.
但随后，五月，维特·索尔伯格（Wit Solberg）残酷地敲响了警钟。
Well the patient, Toxie, didn't get a payment this month.
患者托克西本月没有收到付款。
In other words-- so we're supposed to get a check every month, how much is our check for this month?
换句话说，我们每个月都应该收到一张支票，这个月的支票是多少？
Yeah, there wasn't a check.
是的，没有支票。
Chana Joffe-Walt Wait, wait, nothing?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 等等，等等，什么都没有？
We're not getting anything?
我们什么也没得到？
She's sort of in a coma.
她有点昏迷了。
Wit Solberg A dazed state.
维特·索尔伯格 (Wit Solberg) 茫然的状态。
A dazed state.
一种茫然的状态。
Chana Joffe-Walt We have made back half of our money, how should we feel right now?
Chana Joffe-Walt 我们已经赚回了一半的钱，现在我们应该感觉如何？
At least you got half.
至少你有一半。
Right?
正确的？
The glass is half full.
玻璃杯已经满了一半。
Seriously?
严重地？
The glass is half full?
杯子是半满的吗？
We got a check for zero this month.
这个月我们收到了一张零支票。
That's the other half of the glass.
这是玻璃的另一半。
No, that's right.
不，没错。
This wasn't the way it was supposed to happen.
这不是事情应该发生的方式。
Back in the bond cave Rob had explained to us that we'd get checks for roughly the same amount each month, and then one day they'd stop.
回到债券洞穴时，罗布向我们解释说，我们每个月都会收到大致相同金额的支票，然后有一天他们会停止。
They're not supposed to go up and down, and they're definitely not supposed to be for $0.
它们不应该上下波动，而且绝对不应该是 0 美元。
So we spent $1,000.
所以我们花了1000美元。
If Toxie stayed in a coma, we'd be out a lot of money.
如果托克西一直处于昏迷状态，我们就会损失很多钱。
To try to sort out what was going on, we brought in Samir Noriega and Steve Marcus from NPM Capital.
为了弄清楚到底发生了什么，我们请来了来自 NPM Capital 的萨米尔·诺列加 (Samir Noriega) 和史蒂夫·马库斯 (Steve Marcus)。
Samir used to trade Toxie's ancestors at JP Morgan.
萨米尔曾在摩根大通交易托克西的祖先。
And he pulled up Toxie's paperwork and looked at it sort of the way a doctor looks at an x-ray, and pointed.
他拿出托克西的文件，像医生看 X 光片一样看它，然后指了指。
So he finds a loan in Brentwood, California, for $696,000, and he tells us, something big happened to this Brentwood guy this last month.
因此，他在加利福尼亚州布伦特伍德找到了一笔 696,000 美元的贷款，他告诉我们，上个月这个布伦特伍德人发生了一件大事。
In this case, here you have $200,000 that were forgiven, of principal.
在这种情况下，您有 200,000 美元的本金被免除。
So you can see there, so they really just said, "Don't worry about that $200,000, you don't have to pay it."
所以你可以看到那里，所以他们实际上只是说，“别担心那 20 万美元，你不必支付。”
Yeah, that was forgiven.
是的，这被原谅了。
This was deferred.
这被推迟了。
They forgave $200,000?
他们原谅了20万美元？
Samir Noriega That's what it looks like.
萨米尔·诺列加 事情就是这样。
What're they doing?
他们在做什么？
I mean, I feel for that person, but that was money we were supposed to be getting some of.
我的意思是，我对那个人有感觉，但那是我们应该得到的钱。
In essence, because of their forgiving that homeowner that principal balance, it's affecting Toxie.
从本质上讲，由于他们原谅了房主的本金余额，这正在影响托克西。
So their forgiving is at your expense.
所以他们的宽恕是以你为代价的。
Loan modification.
贷款修改。
This was a real surprise to me, because usually you hear, number one, how loan modifications aren't happening enough, and number two, how they're good for everyone.
这对我来说真是一个惊喜，因为通常你会听到，第一，贷款修改如何进行得不够，第二，它们如何对每个人都有好处。
If you modify a loan, you can keep a family in their home-- that's good for them-- and it's good for the lender, who doesn't have to foreclose on the house and sell it for what could be an even bigger loss.
如果你修改贷款，你可以让一个家庭留在他们的房子里——这对他们有好处——对贷款人也有好处，他们不必取消房屋的赎回权并以可能造成更大损失的方式出售它。
But there is one group of people it is not good for-- us.
但有一群人这对我们不利。
And this is where, I'm afraid, we have to dig into the toxic asset paperwork.
恐怕这就是我们必须深入研究有毒资产文件的地方。
We have to explain the line.
我们必须解释一下这条线。
So the way these mortgage backed securities work is that us and all the other investors who collectively own these 2,000 mortgages, we are basically standing in line to get paid.
因此，这些抵押贷款支持证券的运作方式是，我们和所有其他共同拥有这 2,000 笔抵押贷款的投资者基本上都在排队领取报酬。
Every month, money comes in from people's mortgage checks, but that money first gets used to pay the investors standing in front of the line, then the people behind them, then the people behind them.
每个月，人们的抵押贷款支票都会有钱进来，但这些钱首先用来支付站在队伍前面的投资者，然后是他们后面的人，然后是他们后面的人。
And we are standing way at the back of the line.
我们站在队伍的最后面。
And that's why our slice of this thing is toxic, that's why we got it so cheap.
这就是为什么我们的这块东西有毒，这就是为什么我们得到它如此便宜。
The people in the front paid more than us.
前面的人付出的比我们多。
So loan modification's bad for us.
所以贷款修改对我们不利。
This Brentwood, California guy, he's got a smaller mortgage now, which means he's writing a smaller mortgage check each month, which means that pile of mortgages is just a little bit smaller, with less money coming in.
这位来自加利福尼亚州布伦特伍德的家伙现在的抵押贷款规模较小，这意味着他每个月要开的抵押贷款支票较小，这意味着抵押贷款规模会小一点，流入的资金也会减少。
This month, just six mortgages in Toxie got modified, but that was enough so that the money ran out just before it got to us, at the last place in line.
这个月，托克西只修改了六项抵押贷款，但这已经足够了，以至于钱在到达我们手中（排在最后）之前就用完了。
This is one reason why it's been difficult to arrange loan work outs, to help people who can no longer make their payments, because there's a whole bunch of people like us who lose money when you do.
这就是为什么很难安排贷款解决方案，帮助那些无法再付款的人，因为当你这样做时，有一大群像我们这样的人会赔钱。
I ask Samir, do investors like us call the bank and say, "Stop doing these modifications, you're killing me."
我问萨米尔，像我们这样的投资者是否会打电话给银行并说：“停止进行这些修改，你要杀了我。”
You could do that.
你可以这么做。
David Kestenbaum Would you do that if you owned this?
David Kestenbaum 如果你拥有这个，你会这么做吗？
I own some of them, so I do that, but they don't care.
我拥有其中一些，所以我这样做，但他们不在乎。
They might care, but there's a lot of pressure the other way.
他们可能会关心，但另一方面也有很大的压力。
Some investors at the front of the line want the banks to do modifications, because any money that comes in goes to them first.
一些站在最前面的投资者希望银行进行修改，因为任何进来的钱都会首先流向他们。
The government wants banks to do modifications and has programs to encourage it, and homeowners want them, too.
政府希望银行进行修改，并制定了鼓励这样做的计划，房主也希望如此。
So when Samir is looking at Toxie's numbers on the screen, he's pretty pessimistic.
所以当萨米尔看着屏幕上托克西的数字时，他非常悲观。
In fact, there's only one way that things are going to turn around.
事实上，只有一种方式可以扭转局面。
If everyone won the lottery in this pool, however unlikely that is, and they all pay their mortgage entirely, you'd be getting close to $75,000.
如果这个池中的每个人都中了彩票，无论可能性有多大，并且他们都全额支付了抵押贷款，那么您将获得接近 75,000 美元。
Excellent.
出色的。
Then Toxie would be alive and healthy again.
然后托克西就会再次健康地活着。
It's still alive.
它还活着。
As long as you have an outstanding principal balance, there's hope, but it's fading very quickly.
只要您有未偿还的本金余额，就有希望，但它很快就会消失。
September 19, 2010.
2010 年 9 月 19 日。
It was pretty clear where we were headed.
我们的去向非常清楚。
I went through blame, anger, denial, and then we got the call.
我经历了责备、愤怒、否认，然后我们接到了电话。
Well, the day has come.
好吧，这一天已经到来了。
Toxie has officially died.
托克西正式去世。
That means there's no chance we're getting any more checks?
这意味着我们没有机会再收到支票了？
She's dead, Chana.
她死了，查娜。
She's not coming back.
她不会回来了。
We'd bought Toxie for $1,000, and at the time of death, we had made back $449.06.
我们以 1,000 美元的价格购买了 Toxie，在他去世时，我们赚回了 449.06 美元。
In trying to find comfort in that moment, I console myself with this thought-- with Toxie's demise, we are one step closer to the end of this financial crisis.
在试图在那一刻找到安慰时，我用这样的想法安慰自己——随着托克西的去世，我们离这场金融危机的结束又近了一步。
Now we have an answer to that big question, what are toxic assets worth?
现在我们有了这个大问题的答案：有毒资产的价值是多少？
The question that's vexed governments, and big banks, and the world's finance ministers-- at least for our one toxic asset, we now know the answer-- she was worth $449.06.
困扰各国政府、大银行和世界各国财政部长的问题——至少对于我们的一项有毒资产，我们现在知道了答案——她的身价为 449.06 美元。
Although Wit, who sees these things traded every day-- billions of dollars worth-- did not feel like this meant closure.
尽管威特每天都看到这些价值数十亿美元的交易，但他并不觉得这意味着关闭。
We're in like the third inning, if you will, on the toxic asset business.
如果你愿意的话，我们正处于有毒资产业务的第三局。
There's still a lot more that's sitting in people's balance sheets, you know, waiting for the day that they're able to sell.
你知道，人们的资产负债表上还有很多东西等待着他们能够出售的那一天。
They're not going away anytime soon.
他们不会很快消失。
In other words, Toxie is survived by millions of investors and homeowners, who are part of some other toxic asset story.
换句话说，Toxie 幸存下来的是数百万投资者和房主，他们也是其他有毒资产故事的一部分。
We still don't know how those stories are going to end.
我们仍然不知道这些故事将如何结束。
The economy's more stable than it was, but housing is still a big, big unknown thing.
经济比以前更加稳定，但住房仍然是一个非常非常未知的事情。
I turned off the live video cam pointing at the stack of paper that was Toxie.
我关掉了指向托克西那叠纸的实时摄像头。
And Chana, you scattered the remains.
还有查纳，你把遗骸都撒散了。
And by that I mean you handed out the money we got back from Toxie to our colleagues at Planet Money.
我的意思是，你把我们从 Toxie 那里拿回来的钱交给了 Planet Money 的同事。
85, 86, 87, 88, 89.
85、86、87、88、89。
Adam Davidson So this is it?
亚当·戴维森 就是这个吗？
This is what Toxie has come down to?
这就是Toxie的下场吗？
Oh no, wait, here.
哦不，等等，这里。
Adam Davidson She brings out the change.
亚当·戴维森（Adam Davidson）她带来了改变。
And 80 cents, here you go.
80 美分，给你。
Adam Davidson This is so depressing.
亚当·戴维森 这太令人沮丧了。
Wait, does that mean we're all only getting that much back?
等等，这是否意味着我们只能得到这么多的回报？
$89.80.
89.80 美元。
David Kestenbaum We turned your $200 into $89.
David Kestenbaum 我们将您的 200 美元变成了 89 美元。
It's really depressing that this is all that's left of Toxie.
托克西只剩下这一切，真是令人沮丧。
That's it.
就是这样。
Jacob Goldstein So I've been sitting here lurking--
雅各布·戈德斯坦 所以我一直坐在这里潜伏——
That's Planet Money blogger Jacob Goldstein, who wasn't part of the staff when we bought Toxie.
那是 Planet Money 博主雅各布·戈德斯坦 (Jacob Goldstein)，当我们收购 Toxie 时，他并不是我们的员工。
And he was sitting in the room, watching us each get our $89.80.
他坐在房间里，看着我们每人拿到 89.80 美元。
So look, I have a proposition, basically.
所以看，我基本上有一个提议。
It's very safe.
这是非常安全的。
Sounds familiar.
听起来很熟悉。
Jacob Goldstein And it involves you giving me $89.80, each of you.
Jacob Goldstein 你们每人给我 89.80 美元。
You have it there sitting in front of you.
它就在你面前。
Adam, you already said it doesn't feel like a lot of money.
亚当，你已经说过这感觉不是很多钱。
I want you to take that money right now, put it in my hand, because I have-- what for all of history has been-- the very definition of a sound investment.
我希望你现在就拿走这笔钱，把它放在我手里，因为我拥有——对于整个历史来说——合理投资的定义。
Gold.
金子。
Gold?
金子？
Jacob Goldstein One word.
雅各布·戈尔茨坦 一言以蔽之。
We're going to buy whatever, a penny size piece of gold, that will be our rock.
我们要买任何东西，一便士大小的金子，那将是我们的石头。
And you're going to bring in that gold, we're going to see the gold?
你要把黄金带进来，我们会看到黄金吗？
We are going to have what you call a gold.
我们将获得你们所说的黄金。
On October 4, Jacob and I went to the diamond district in New York City with Toxie's remains in a mason jar, and we bought a shiny gold coin.
10 月 4 日，我和雅各布带着装在玻璃罐里的托克西的遗体去了纽约市的钻石区，并买了一枚闪亮的金币。
It cost $419, twice as much as it would have cost three years ago, which means that yes, it might be a bubble.
它的成本为 419 美元，是三年前的两倍，这意味着，是的，它可能是一个泡沫。
But this time, if we lose money, at least we got in on the way up instead of the way down.
但这一次，如果我们赔钱，至少我们是在上涨过程中入场的，而不是在下跌过程中入场的。
[MUSIC - "TOXIC" BY BRITNEY SPEARS]
[音乐 - 布兰妮·斯皮尔斯的《TOXIC》]
Our program was produced today by Alex Blumberg with Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Alex Blumberg 与 Ben Calhoun、Jane Feltes、Sarah Koenig、Jonathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp、Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Senior producer for our show is Julie Snyder.
我们节目的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Seth Lind is our production manager.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的生产经理。
Emily Condon's our office manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的办公室经理。
Production help from Shawn Wen.
Shawn Wen 提供制作帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can get the new This American Life app for Android phones.
[鸣谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中获取适用于 Android 手机的全新 This American Life 应用程序。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by Torey Malatia.
Torey Malatia 对我们的演出进行 WBEZ 管理监督。
I have to tell you, I was shocked to find that he's thinking about replacing me with late night TV host Craig Ferguson.
我必须告诉你，我很震惊地发现他正在考虑用深夜电视主持人克雷格·弗格森取代我。
Craig's offer was very good.
克雷格的报价非常好。
It was right on the mark.
这是正确的。
And when he made the offer, it was a fair price.
当他提出报价时，这是一个公平的价格。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。