417: This Party Sucks - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #417 | October 29, 2010 417: This Party Sucks Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 417 集 | 2010 年 10 月 29 日 417：这个派对很糟糕 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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Prologue Ira Glass During Bill Jerke's years as a state legislator, the Colorado Union of Taxpayers rated him as one of the biggest enemies of taxes in the state.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在比尔·杰克 (Bill Jerke) 担任州议员期间，科罗拉多州纳税人联盟将他评为该州最大的税收敌人之一。
I think three years out of eight, I was either the outright winner or tied for most conservative legislator.
我认为八年中有三年我要么是彻底的赢家，要么与最保守的立法者并列。
He helped organize the Tea Party chapter in Greeley.
他帮助组织了格里利的茶党分会。
And he was proud to let me know--
他很自豪地让我知道——
I'm a big supporter of Juan Williams.
我是胡安·威廉姆斯的坚定支持者。
Go on.
继续。
The politics this year are so strange that this anti-tax Republican has found himself spending the fall stumping the state, doing something he's never done.
今年的政治是如此奇怪，以至于这位反税共和党人发现自己整个秋天都在困扰该州，做了一些他从未做过的事情。
Did you ever picture that you'd be somebody going out, talking to Republican groups, arguing against tax cuts?
你有没有想过你会成为一个出去与共和党团体交谈、反对减税的人？
It is hard to picture, frankly, that that's a position I would find myself in.
坦率地说，很难想象我会陷入这样的境地。
Jerke is trying to defeat three ballot initiatives that come before Colorado voters next week.
杰克正试图击败下周科罗拉多州选民面前的三项投票动议。
Initiatives 60, 61, and 101 together would strangle most of the ways a government brings in money.
60、61 和 101 号倡议加在一起将扼杀政府筹集资金的大部分方式。
They'd cut Colorado's personal income taxes by a fourth, limit the ability of state and local governments to issue bonds, and force the state government to take over $2 billion in education funding that's now covered by local governments, but without the means to pay for that new cost.
他们将科罗拉多州的个人所得税削减了四分之一，限制州和地方政府发行债券的能力，并迫使州政府接管目前由地方政府承担的超过20亿美元的教育经费，但没有能力支付新的费用。
And so you start to add it up, and you figure out pretty quickly that the state will be short $3 to $4 billion out of a $7 billion general fund.
所以你开始加起来，你很快就会发现，政府将在 70 亿美元的普通基金中短缺 3 到 40 亿美元。
And it's hard to understand how we're going to have a prison system, social services system, and higher education would be all but gone.
很难理解我们的监狱系统、社会服务系统和高等教育将如何消失。
It would have to virtually be all privatized at that point.
到那时它实际上必须全部私有化。
He believes the initiatives would throw Colorado into such an ongoing fiscal crisis that business would leave the state.
他认为这些举措将使科罗拉多州陷入持续的财政危机，以至于企业将离开该州。
What do you think of the people who are trying to get these three initiatives passed?
您对那些努力让这三项倡议获得通过的人有何看法？
I think that they are desperate patriots.
我认为他们是绝望的爱国者。
I think that they sincerely believe that government has gotten too big, and I can't disagree with them there.
我认为他们真诚地相信政府已经变得太大了，我不能不同意他们的观点。
I just think that there are more measured ways of doing it.
我只是认为有更多有节制的方法可以做到这一点。
And they say back to me, "Yeah, but we've heard that for 20 years from you and we're tired of waiting."
他们对我说：“是的，但我们已经从你那里听到这句话 20 年了，我们已经厌倦了等待。”
Do you think that the politics this year are just very strange, where Republicans who in the past saw eye-to-eye and worked together now are opponents on issues just like this?
你是否认为今年的政治很奇怪，过去意见一致、共同努力的共和党人现在却在这样的问题上成为对手？
I have good friends that are on the other side.
我有好朋友在另一边。
They're a little bit surprised to see me on this side, I think.
我想他们看到我在这边有点惊讶。
But when I point out the fatal flaws within these three questions, they don't have much to say to go ahead and defend themselves, either, on it.
但当我指出这三个问题的致命缺陷时，他们也没有太多话可继续为自己辩护。
They kind of get back to just muttering again that something's got to be done to go ahead and slow down government.
他们又开始嘀咕，必须采取一些措施来减缓政府的速度。
This year we have Republicans impatient with the Republican party, and Democrats frustrated with the Democratic party.
今年，共和党人对共和党感到不耐烦，民主党人对民主党感到沮丧。
There's a lot of African Americans that are very disheartened with the Democratic party.
有很多非裔美国人对民主党非常失望。
And they see the abandonment of Barack as the abandonment of black people.
他们认为抛弃巴拉克就是抛弃黑人。
That's Greg Shropshire of Rome, Georgia, a past president of the local chapter of a service organization called The 100 Black Men of America.
那是来自佐治亚州罗马的格雷格·什罗普郡 (Greg Shropshire)，他是一家名为“美国 100 名黑人”的服务组织当地分会的前任主席。
He feels that the Democratic party as a whole has not stood by Barack Obama.
他认为整个民主党并没有支持巴拉克·奥巴马。
The fact that we're still discussing, 20 something months into the presidency, whether Barack is a Muslim or not is just asinine.
事实上，在就任总统 20 个月后，我们仍在讨论巴拉克是否是穆斯林，这简直是愚蠢的。
And the fact that it's allowed, the fact that Democrats even allow people out there to even bring stuff like that up.
事实上这是允许的，事实上民主党甚至允许人们提出这样的事情。
And it's not we're going to sling mud, but the fact that you're not even speaking up for truth.
并不是我们要抹黑，而是事实上你根本就没有为真理发声。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our show, on the eve of this mid-term election, people looking at their own political parties and declaring, "This party sucks." Our show today in two acts.
今天在我们的节目中，在中期选举前夕，人们看着自己的政党并宣称，“这个政党很糟糕。”我们今天的演出分两幕。
Act one, the conservatives.
第一幕，保守派。
Act two, the liberals.
第二幕，自由主义者。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act one, "Patriot Games." With Tea Parties springing up around the country, so many new people are involved in politics for the first time this election, and they are getting into situations that sometimes they don't know how to handle, it's all so new.
第一幕，“爱国者游戏”。随着茶党在全国各地兴起，很多新人在这次选举中第一次涉足政治，他们有时会陷入不知道如何处理的情况，这一切都是新的。
Ben Calhoun has this story of one congressional race and two friends.
本·卡尔霍恩讲述了一场国会竞选和两个朋友的故事。
The day Congressman Bart Stupak's seat came up for grabs was March 21, 2010, a little after 4:00.
众议员巴特·斯图帕克 (Bart Stupak) 的席位争夺日是 2010 年 3 月 21 日下午 4:00 左右。
Stupak is a Democrat from Michigan.
斯图帕克是来自密歇根州的民主党人。
He'd been leading a group of pro-life Democrats who were holding out their votes on the health care bill until there was something in it that prevented federal money from going to abortions.
他一直领导着一群反堕胎的民主党人，他们一直坚持对医疗保健法案投票，直到其中有什么东西阻止联邦资金用于堕胎。
They held out and held out, and then, at 4:06, Stupak announced that President Obama had agreed to issued an executive order, giving in to their demands.
他们坚持不懈，然后在 4 点 06 分，斯图帕克宣布奥巴马总统同意发布一项行政命令，屈服于他们的要求。
And because of that, Stupak's group would provide the rest of the 216 votes needed to pass the health care bill through the House.
因此，斯图帕克的团队将提供众议院通过医疗保健法案所需的其余 216 票。
I am please to announce that we have an agreement, and it is with the help of the President and the Speaker, we were able to come with an agreement to protect the sanctity of life in the health care reform.
我很高兴地宣布，我们达成了一项协议，正是在总统和议长的帮助下，我们能够达成一项协议，以在医疗改革中保护生命的神圣性。
This puts you guys over the top?
这让你们超越了巅峰？
Are you now past 216?
你现在已经过了216了吗？
We're well past 216, yes.
是的，我们已经过了 216 岁了。
Dan Benishek People started calling me on the phone, even as Mr. Stupak was at the podium.
丹·贝尼舍克 (Dan Benishek) 人们开始给我打电话，尽管斯图帕克先生正在讲台上。
That's Dan Benishek, a surgeon, who, just a couple months before all this, had decided to run against Stupak.
这就是丹·贝尼舍克（Dan Benishek），一名外科医生，就在这一切发生的几个月前，他决定与斯图帕克竞选。
The day of the health care announcement, the day that Bart Stupak officially became the congressman who gave the nation Obamacare, Benishek was the only Republican challenger on the books.
在宣布医疗保健计划的那天，也就是巴特·斯图帕克正式成为向全国提供奥巴马医改的国会议员的那天，贝尼舍克是历史上唯一的共和党挑战者。
And there was a good reason for that.
这是有充分理由的。
Because, after 18 years, Stupak was pretty much considered unbeatable.
因为，18 年后，Stupak 几乎被认为是不可战胜的。
Essentially, you ran against him if you didn't mind losing, or if you were a total political novice like Dan Benishek.
从本质上讲，如果你不介意失败，或者如果你是像丹·贝尼舍克这样的政治新手，那么你就可以与他竞争。
You know, he's still there talking, answering questions and blah, blah, blah, and the phone started to ring.
你知道，他仍然在那儿说话、回答问题，然后电话就响了。
And it didn't stop for, I don't know, days.
我不知道，它并没有停止好几天。
It rang all day and all night.
它响了一天一夜。
They were saying, like, "How do we send you money?" [LAUGHTER] Because we didn't even have a website out.
他们说，“我们如何寄钱给你？” [笑声]因为我们甚至没有一个网站。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
I ended up raising a couple hundred thousand dollars in a matter of weeks.
我最终在几周内筹集了几十万美元。
Did that catch you off guard?
这让你措手不及吗？
Dan Benishek Yeah.
丹·贝尼舍克 是的。
I'll say.
我会说。
Unbelievably.
难以置信。
Pretty much overnight, Dan Benishek went from being a political nobody to being a political contender.
几乎一夜之间，丹·贝尼舍克从政治上的无名小卒变成了政治竞争者。
And Bart Stupak went from being the guy who was unbeatable to being the guy who was under 24 hour police protection.
巴特·斯图帕克（Bart Stupak）从一个所向无敌的人变成了一个受到 24 小时警察保护的人。
Then, 19 days after he announced the health care deal, Stupak announced that he wouldn't be running again.
然后，在宣布医疗保健协议 19 天后，斯图帕克宣布他不会再次参选。
At that moment, Michigan's first district, a conservative place we're both Democrats and Republicans are often pro-life and pro-gun, suddenly became one of the hottest commodities you can get in congressional politics-- an open seat in a swing district.
在那一刻，密歇根州的第一个选区，一个保守的地方，我们民主党人和共和党人都经常反对堕胎和支持枪支，突然成为国会政治中最热门的商品之一——摇摆选区的一个空缺席位。
On the Democratic side, a state assemblyman named Gary McDowell jumped in to replace Stupak and ran unopposed in the Democratic primary.
民主党方面，一位名叫加里·麦克道尔（Gary McDowell）的州议员接替了斯图帕克，并在民主党初选中无人反对。
On the Republican side, Dan Benishek's early good luck had given him a head start, but other people climbed in, and things got nasty and contentious.
在共和党方面，丹·贝尼舍克（Dan Benishek）早年的好运气让他取得了先机，但其他人也加入进来，事情变得肮脏且充满争议。
And on election night, it was close.
在选举之夜，结果很接近。
Dan Benishek stayed up late with his family, watching the votes come in.
丹·贝尼舍克 (Dan Benishek) 和家人一起熬夜，看着投票结果。
It was definitely an amazing night.
这绝对是一个美妙的夜晚。
And I ended up winning the primary by 15 votes.
最终我以 15 票的优势赢得了初选。
That's a squeaker.
那是吱吱声。
Dan Benishek You think?
丹·贝尼舍克 你觉得呢？
[LAUGHTER] We call it a "Dan slide." I know.
[笑声]我们称之为“丹幻灯片”。我知道。
The math for this race seems pretty easy.
这场比赛的数学似乎很简单。
Swing district in a Republican year.
民国年间的摇摆选区。
You'd figure after the primary, Dan Benishek would have it made.
你可能会想到，初选结束后，丹·贝尼舍克（Dan Benishek）就会成功。
But it hasn't worked out that way, for pretty much one reason-- Tea Party groups.
但事情并没有这样发展，原因几乎只有一个——茶党团体。
Tea Party groups have been popping up all over northern Michigan for more than a year.
一年多来，茶党团体在密歇根州北部各地不断涌现。
And, just like in other parts of the country, they've been making Republican politics more complicated.
而且，就像在该国其他地区一样，他们一直在使共和党政治变得更加复杂。
Talking to Tea Party activists, you'll find out that most of them went to their first rally in spring of 2009.
与茶党积极分子交谈，你会发现他们中的大多数人都参加了 2009 年春天的第一次集会。
Though they're so sensitive about people saying this is really about Obama and the fact that he's black, that almost always, without fail, they'll tell you that they were upset well before Obama even took office.
尽管他们对人们说这实际上是关于奥巴马以及他是黑人的事实非常敏感，但几乎总是毫无例外地，他们会告诉你，他们在奥巴马上任之前就感到不安。
We started talking about forming a Tea Party even during George Bush's tenure, with the first TARP bail out.
甚至在乔治·布什任职期间，随着第一批问题资产救助计划的救助，我们就开始讨论组建茶党。
Rich Carlson lives in Petoskey, Michigan.
里奇·卡尔森住在密歇根州佩托斯基。
Which, if you imagine Michigan as the back of your left hand, Petoskey would be the tip of your ring finger.
如果你把密歇根想象成你的左手背，那么佩托斯基就是你的无名指尖。
Rich is a tower of a human being, a bulky six foot four.
里奇是一个人的塔，身高六英尺四英寸。
Though, because he's so good natured, he manages to be huge without ever seeming threatening.
不过，因为他脾气很好，所以他能做到体形庞大，却不会显得有威胁。
Rich, who's pushing 50, was born and raised in Petoskey, and for years he made his living there selling construction supplies.
里奇已经 50 岁了，他在佩托斯基出生和长大，多年来他一直在那里靠卖建筑材料为生。
Though in 2009, with the recession, business had gotten really bad.
2009年，随着经济衰退，生意变得非常糟糕。
It was around that time that Rich started talking to his friend, a guy named Tom, about starting a Tea Party.
大约在那个时候，里奇开始和他的朋友汤姆谈论举办茶会的事情。
Tom and I had been friends since kindergarten.
汤姆和我从幼儿园起就是朋友。
And so, how long of a friendship is that?
那么，友谊能持续多久呢？
It's certainly a long time.
这肯定是很长一段时间了。
Many, many fishing stories and deer hunting stories and Boy Scout campfire stories and everything else together.
很多很多钓鱼故事、猎鹿故事、童子军篝火故事等等。
This is Tom Swenor.
这是汤姆·斯韦纳。
Tom Swenor So sometime in March, I said, "We've got to do something." Even if it's just three guys, you know, go do something.
Tom Swenor：所以在三月份的某个时候，我说，“我们必须做点什么。”即使只有三个人，你知道，去做点什么吧。
Protest, something.
抗议，某事。
Something.
某物。
Because I was tired of yelling at my TV.
因为我厌倦了对着电视大喊大叫。
You've probably heard that a lot.
你可能已经听过很多次了。
Like Rich, before the Tea Party, Tom had never really been involved in politics.
和里奇一样，在茶党之前，汤姆从未真正参与过政治。
Unlike Rich, Tom's on the short side, with a lean, stocky build and the mannerisms and personality of a vice grip.
与里奇不同的是，汤姆身材矮小，身材瘦削、粗壮，举止和个性就像老虎钳一样。
From the moment you meet him, he seems honest and practical.
从你见到他的那一刻起，他就显得诚实、务实。
Tom's a land surveyor, and when construction slowed down during the recession, his business, just like Rich's, was drying up.
汤姆是一名土地测量员，当经济衰退期间建设放缓时，他的生意就像里奇的一样，正在枯竭。
So Tom and Rich got together with some people from Petoskey and started planning a Tea Party rally.
因此，汤姆和里奇与佩托斯基的一些人聚在一起，开始计划一场茶党集会。
At some point, someone said, "Look, we need a headliner." They consider Sarah Palin, Ted Nugent, but both charge too much money.
在某个时候，有人说：“看，我们需要一个头条新闻。”他们考虑了莎拉·佩林（Sarah Palin）、泰德·纽金特（Ted Nugent），但两者都收费过高。
Eventually someone thought, "What about Joe the Plumber?" And then one day, Tom says, Rich was reading about a Tea Party rally in the state capital on tax day, and Joe the Plumber would be there.
最终有人想：“水管工乔怎么样？”汤姆说，有一天，里奇正在读到有关纳税日在州首府举行茶党集会的报道，水管工乔也会在那里。
We felt as a group, that's the guy.
作为一个团队，我们觉得这就是那个人。
Nobody has any way of knowing how to get a hold of him, but Rick come up with the idea we could possibly meet him in Lansing.
没有人知道如何联系他，但里克想到了我们可能会在兰辛见到他。
Rich Carlson, you know Rich, he's a lot bigger follow than I, so he couldn't get through the crowd like I could.
里奇·卡尔森，你知道里奇，他的追随者比我多得多，所以他无法像我一样穿过人群。
I'm a little guy, went through there like a-- I mean, ch-ch.
我是个小家伙，走过那儿就像——我是说，ch-ch。
And I went up the stairs and I looked back on that crowd, and I snapped some really cool pictures.
我走上楼梯，回头看了看人群，拍了一些非常酷的照片。
And that really gave me a sense of power, that this is a movement.
这确实给了我一种力量感，这是一场运动。
Something is going on here.
这里正在发生一些事情。
It was exciting to be there, but then it was also exciting because I went up into where Joe the Plumber was at.
去那里很令人兴奋，但也很令人兴奋，因为我去了水管工乔所在的地方。
I asked a security guard.
我问了一个保安。
He says, "Well, he's over here." So I went, and I waited for him to get done speaking.
他说：“嗯，他在这儿。”于是我就走了，等他说完。
I forget if he was talking to television people or whatever.
我忘记他是在跟电视里的人说话还是其他什么。
And as soon as he come towards me, I had to say it as quick as possible, because he's just going to shuffle through the crowd.
一旦他向我走来，我就必须尽快说出来，因为他正要拖着脚步穿过人群。
I said, "We're having a Tea Party on May 1 in Petoskey, and we want you to come to our event." And he goes, "Oh, I like Petoskey."
我说：“5 月 1 日我们将在佩托斯基举办茶会，我们希望你能来参加我们的活动。”他说：“哦，我喜欢佩托斯基。”
Joe the Plumber spoke on May 1, on a sunny Friday afternoon in Petoskey.
5 月 1 日，一个阳光明媚的周五下午，管道工乔在佩托斯基发表了讲话。
For having just started up, the Petoskey Tea Party had hundreds of people at the rally, which is kind of remarkable considering that the city only has 6,000 people in it.
佩托斯基茶党刚开始就有数百人参加集会，考虑到该市只有 6000 人，这有点了不起。
Like other Tea Party rallies, the event wasn't about any candidates, or elections.
与其他茶党集会一样，这次活动与任何候选人或选举无关。
The speakers that day focused on what Tea Party people call "core values" or "core principles," which we should talk about for just a second.
那天的演讲者重点讨论了茶党人士所说的“核心价值观”或“核心原则”，我们应该稍微讨论一下。
The core values are usually a few very basic things.
核心价值观通常是一些非常基本的东西。
Generally they are small government, free markets, natural rights-- meaning life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness-- and this belief that the Constitution should be very narrowly interpreted.
一般来说，它们是小政府、自由市场、自然权利——意味着生命、自由和对幸福的追求——以及认为宪法应该被非常狭隘地解释的信念。
Talking to Tea Party people, these come up constantly, because Tea Partiers again and again go back to the idea that these values are more important than anything, more important than party politics.
与茶党人士交谈时，这些问题不断出现，因为茶党人士一次又一次地回到这样的观念：这些价值观比任何事情都更重要，比政党政治更重要。
A lot of times, Tea Partiers tell each other that they should only support candidates who really, truly represent conservative values.
很多时候，茶党成员互相告诉对方，他们应该只支持真正代表保守价值观的候选人。
An expression that gets used all the time is, "principle over party."
一直使用的一个说法是“原则高于政党”。
So late this summer the race for Michigan's first district was chugging along, and one day Rich Carlson gets a phone call.
今年夏末，密歇根州第一选区的竞选正在如火如荼地进行，有一天，里奇·卡尔森接到了一个电话。
One day I'm the back deck of my condo, beautiful summer day.
有一天，我在公寓的后甲板上，那是一个美丽的夏日。
Cell phone rings.
手机响了。
I answer the phone and I end up listening to about 20 minutes of somebody selling me on the fact of their core values and principles, and what's wrong with the country, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
我接了电话，最后听了大约 20 分钟，有人向我推销他们的核心价值观和原则，以及这个国家出了什么问题等等。
The guy on the phone was a guy named Glenn Wilson.
电话里的那个人名叫格伦·威尔逊。
Wilson is a self-made millionaire who owns a telephone and internet company.
威尔逊是一位白手起家的百万富翁，拥有一家电话和互联网公司。
Basically, Wilson was telling Rich he was thinking about getting in the race as an Independent, running on a lot of Tea Party type ideas.
基本上，威尔逊告诉里奇，他正在考虑以独立人士身份参加竞选，并以很多茶党类型的想法参加竞选。
He was also saying he'd be willing to throw his own money into the campaign, so he wouldn't be some marginal third party guy.
他还表示，他愿意将自己的资金投入到竞选活动中，这样他就不会成为边缘的第三方人物。
At this point, Rich had been appointed President of the Petoskey Tea Party.
此时，里奇被任命为佩托斯基茶党主席。
Not only that, he'd co-founded an umbrella group for Tea Party groups all across northern Michigan, which was called the Northern Michigan Liberty Alliance.
不仅如此，他还与他人共同创立了密歇根州北部茶党团体的保护伞组织，称为北密歇根自由联盟。
That day, Wilson was trying to persuade Rich to join his campaign.
那天，威尔逊试图说服里奇加入他的竞选活动。
And Rich was up for it.
里奇已经做好了准备。
I had a candidate that was viable, that had the financial horsepower to do it, could raise money, and had good core ideals.
我有一个可行的候选人，有足够的财力去做这件事，可以筹集资金，并且有良好的核心理想。
And so I thought, well, game on, potentially.
所以我想，好吧，游戏可能会继续。
Which was fine.
这很好。
And then Dan Benishek won the Republican primary.
然后丹·贝尼舍克赢得了共和党初选。
Which meant that Benishek would be the leading contender to beat the Democrat in November.
这意味着贝尼舍克将成为 11 月份击败民主党的主要竞争者。
And most of Rich's Tea Party friends were excited to support Benishek.
里奇的大多数茶党朋友都很高兴支持贝尼舍克。
They were psyched to have someone who could take back Stupak's seat for the conservatives.
他们很高兴有人能够为保守派夺回斯图帕克的席位。
At the same time, they were worried that Glenn Wilson was going to enter the race, split the conservative vote, and spoil everything.
与此同时，他们担心格伦·威尔逊会参加竞选，分裂保守派选票，破坏一切。
But Rich says he was convinced.
但里奇说他对此深信不疑。
Wilson was just a better embodiment of Tea Party ideals, so he went with the Tea Party philosophy.
威尔逊只是茶党理想的更好体现，所以他遵循茶党哲学。
Principal over party.
校长胜于党。
Forget who's the most electable.
忘记谁是最有可能当选的。
He wasn't worried about losing the seat.
他并不担心失去座位。
There's a tremendous amount of fear of putting a Democrat in this seat.
人们非常担心让民主党担任这个席位。
Not looking through the perspective that there's 435 seats in the US Congress and this is just one of 435 races that are happening November 2.
如果不考虑美国国会有 435 个席位，这只是 11 月 2 日举行的 435 场竞选之一。
Secondly, I believe it's going to be a landslide for the Republicans.
其次，我相信共和党将取得压倒性胜利。
I think that no matter how this race turns out, Independent, Republican, or Democrat, that it's still going to be a Republican-run house and more than likely a Republican-run Senate.
我认为，无论这场竞选结果如何，无论是独立派、共和党还是民主党，它仍然将是共和党管理的众议院，而且很可能是共和党管理的参议院。
Essentially, Rich said, if Wilson split the vote and the Democrats won the race, it might even be a good thing.
里奇说，从本质上讲，如果威尔逊平分选票并且民主党赢得了竞选，那甚至可能是一件好事。
Because Republicans would have to cater more to Tea Partiers the next time around.
因为共和党下次必须更多地迎合茶党人士。
This is one of the ways to return one of the parties closer to Tea Party ideals.
这是让政党回归更接近茶党理想的方法之一。
Putting the ideals first.
把理想放在第一位。
Rich Carlson Definitely principles above party.
里奇·卡尔森绝对是高于政党的原则。
Rich signed on as Wilson's campaign manager, but he didn't tell anyone in the Petoskey Tea Party.
里奇签约担任威尔逊的竞选经理，但他没有告诉佩托斯基茶党的任何人。
He knew none of his friends would like it.
他知道他的朋友不会喜欢它。
They'd all talked about Wilson being a spoiler.
他们都说威尔逊是个搅局者。
But Rich also knew his secret could only last for so long.
但里奇也知道他的秘密只能维持这么久。
Tom, Rich's best friend, says it all came out in the open during the group's first meeting after the primary.
里奇最好的朋友汤姆说，这一切都是在初选后小组第一次会议上公开的。
That first meeting after the preliminary election, and I went to the Tea Party.
预选后的第一次会议，我参加了茶党。
Rich was there and, you know, it was quite a number of people.
里奇也在场，而且你知道，人数不少。
But Rich Carlson got up and walked out of the room, and this other gentleman that's there with his wife followed him.
但里奇·卡尔森起身走出了房间，另一位和他妻子在一起的绅士也跟着他。
That's when I went, that's Glenn Wilson, and they're going out to coach him how to talk to us.
就在我去的时候，那是格伦·威尔逊，他们要出去指导他如何与我们交谈。
Lateron I overheard Rich say to him, Now, don't ever do this, or don't ever do that.
后来我无意中听到里奇对他说，现在，永远不要这样做，也不要那样做。
This is Karen LaCross, vice president of the Petoskey Tea Party, who says that night, at first, she didn't even know why Rich was giving Wilson advice.
这是佩托斯基茶党副主席凯伦·拉克罗斯，她说那天晚上，一开始她甚至不知道里奇为什么要给威尔逊提出建议。
And then it dawned on me, oh my god, he's grooming him for candidacy.
然后我突然意识到，天哪，他正在培养他作为候选人。
And then he introduced Glenn Wilson.
然后他介绍了格伦·威尔逊。
He would speak, and Rich would cringe because he's saying something he's not supposed to say.
他会说话，而里奇会感到畏缩，因为他说了一些他不应该说的话。
And because Rich is my buddy I knew what he was up to.
因为里奇是我的朋友，所以我知道他在做什么。
And I thought, but just two days ago we had this discussion about we hoped he didn't enter the race.
我想，但就在两天前，我们进行了讨论，希望他不要参加比赛。
And I'm like, hm.
我想，嗯。
And then later on, within days, we knew that he was working for him.
后来，几天之内，我们就知道他正在为他工作。
And we were all shocked.
我们都感到震惊。
For days after that meeting, Tom and Karen and others in the Petoskey Tea Party say they tried to get in touch with Rich.
在那次会议后的几天里，汤姆和凯伦以及佩托斯基茶党的其他人表示，他们试图与里奇取得联系。
Tom called him at his house, on his cell, at the campaign.
汤姆在竞选期间给他的家里、手机打电话。
He texted him.
他给他发短信。
One day, he even called a radio show and publicly went after Rich and Glenn Wilson.
有一天，他甚至打电话给一个广播节目，公开追捕里奇·威尔逊和格伦·威尔逊。
Karen LaCross says everyone felt betrayed.
凯伦·拉克罗斯说每个人都感到被背叛了。
But Tom took it especially hard.
但汤姆对此感到特别难受。
Tommy, being the emotional person that is, I think he took it personal.
汤米是一个情绪化的人，我认为他把这看成是针对个人的。
It's hard to detach yourself, especially when you have a friend like that.
很难脱离自己，尤其是当你有这样的朋友时。
I think that because they're like brothers, and because they took different paths, and they think that each one has got, you know, consequences that they can't support, they took it too personal.
我认为因为他们就像兄弟一样，因为他们走了不同的道路，而且他们认为每个人都会承担他们无法承受的后果，所以他们把这看得太个人化了。
Tom's made it very vocal, how disappointed he's been.
汤姆说得非常直白，他感到多么失望。
And how how hurt he's been.
以及他受了多大的伤害。
Rick and Tom went from talking five times a day, to not speaking at all.
里克和汤姆从一天说五次，变成了根本不说话。
Without an explanation from Rich, Tom now thinks the worst-- that Rich didn't take the campaign manager job because he believed in it.
没有里奇的解释，汤姆现在想到了最坏的情况——里奇没有接受竞选经理的职位，因为他相信这一点。
At this point, he says, Rich was unemployed, and he took the job for the money.
他说，此时，里奇失业了，他接受这份工作是为了钱。
Essentially, his theory is now that his best friend is a sellout.
从本质上讲，他现在的理论是，他最好的朋友是一个出卖者。
I guess Rich feels he's doing good in the money game.
我猜里奇觉得他在金钱游戏中做得很好。
I hope to hell it was a lot.
我真希望那是很多。
I hope it was a king's ransom, dude, I hope it wasn't just some chump change.
我希望这是一笔国王的赎金，伙计，我希望这不仅仅是一些零钱。
Because I would hope that my friendship is worth 10 grand.
因为我希望我的友谊值10盛。
A guy that's known him for 40 freaking years.
一个认识他四十年的家伙了。
We did pull an emergency meeting together.
我们确实召开了一次紧急会议。
Petoskey Tea Party Vice President Karen LaCross says, after a week of trying to get a hold of Rich and talk him out of what he was doing, she and the other board members decided enough was enough.
佩托斯基茶党副主席凯伦·拉克罗斯 (Karen LaCross) 表示，经过一周试图联系里奇并说服他停止所做的事情后，她和其他董事会成员决定受够了。
So they called a meeting without him.
于是他们召开了一次没有他参加的会议。
And it was just like, we all called each other and said, "Can you be there?
就像我们都互相打电话说：“你能去吗？
Can you be there?" And we all went into a room at one of the people's offices, and we said, OK, here's the deal.
你能在吗？”我们都走进了一个人民办公室的一个房间，我们说，好吧，事情就是这样。
Rich has been a great leader.
里奇是一位伟大的领导者。
And so we said, all right, we don't want to just blow him out of water here, because he's been an integral part of this.
所以我们说，好吧，我们不想把他从水里吹出来，因为他是这件事中不可或缺的一部分。
And so we symbolically pulled a chair up to the table that was empty and said, OK, that's Rich's chair.
于是我们象征性地把一把椅子拉到空桌子旁，然后说，好吧，那是里奇的椅子。
And all we're going to do is, we're going to swap him out temporarily with one of the regular board members, and that board member will become president pro tem.
我们要做的就是，暂时用一名正式董事会成员替换他，而该董事会成员将成为临时主席。
Tom was there that day.
那天汤姆也在场。
Tom Swenor I was kind of emotionally torn.
汤姆·斯维纳（Tom Swenor） 我的情绪有些撕裂。
Because how much Rick was involved, but we kind of took a stand.
因为里克参与了多少，但我们有点表明立场。
I mean, I don't remember who made the motion and seconded it.
我的意思是，我不记得是谁提出这项动议并附议的。
I think there was only five of us there, six of us there.
我想那里只有我们五个人，我们六个人。
I think I was the last to vote.
我想我是最后一个投票的。
It was unanimous.
大家一致同意。
Even if Tom doesn't remember who it was that seconded the motion to push out Rich, records from the meeting show who it was, and it was Tom himself.
即使汤姆不记得是谁支持了驱逐里奇的动议，但会议记录显示是谁，而且是汤姆本人。
For Rich, this meant he'd just been voted out of the Tea Party group he'd helped create.
对于里奇来说，这意味着他刚刚被选出他帮助创建的茶党团体。
I was notified by just standard minutes of a special meeting that was held.
我只收到了一次特别会议的标准会议记录通知。
That I was going to be-- that an interim president was being appointed until I came off the campaign trail.
我将被任命为临时总统，直到我结束竞选活动。
And at that moment, do you remember what you thought and felt, when you when you read that?
那一刻，当你读到这篇文章时，你还记得你的想法和感受吗？
My initial thoughts were, the GOP has taken over this Tea Party, too.
我最初的想法是，共和党也接管了这个茶党。
That was my initial thought.
这是我最初的想法。
Because it's happening all over the place.
因为这种事到处都在发生。
One of the most confusing things about the Tea Party-- and this gets talked about so much now-- is it's relationship with the GOP.
关于茶党最令人困惑的事情之一——现在人们谈论得很多——是它与共和党的关系。
Is the Tea Party just part of the Republican party?
茶党只是共和党的一部分吗？
Do they want to change the Republican party?
他们想改变共和党吗？
Is the Tea Party rebelling against the Republican party?
茶党是在反抗共和党吗？
In all of this, it seems like the thing that you can really say about the relationship between the Republican party and the Tea Party is that it's really, really awkward.
综上所述，关于共和党和茶党之间的关系，你真正可以说的是，它真的非常非常尴尬。
And it's awkward because there's a split in the Tea Party about how to see Republicans.
这很尴尬，因为茶党内部对于如何看待共和党人存在分歧。
There's Rich's view, which is that the Republican party has been paying lip service to conservative values.
里奇的观点是，共和党一直在口头上支持保守价值观。
They've gone soft and should be viewed with suspicion.
他们已经变得软弱，应该以怀疑的态度看待。
And Tea Partiers should be willing to walk away.
茶党应该愿意离开。
Principle over party.
原则高于党派。
If you get lousy service at a restaurant or a store, and you continue to go there all the time, do you think that that store or restaurant is ever going to change their level of service?
如果您在一家餐馆或商店的服务很差，并且您继续一直去那里，您认为该商店或餐馆会改变他们的服务水平吗？
No. If we just keep on voting the same way and just going with those two choices, are the parties ever going to change?
不。如果我们继续以同样的方式投票并坚持这两个选择，政党会改变吗？
No, they're not.
不，他们不是。
The other Tea Party view is much more pragmatic, and it's the one that Tom has taken.
茶党的另一种观点更为务实，这也是汤姆所采取的观点。
It's pretty much the William F.
这几乎就是威廉·F.
Buckley approach-- that if you want to serve conservative ideals, you find the most electable conservative, and you gather everyone behind that candidate.
巴克利的方法是——如果你想服务于保守派的理想，你就找到最有可能当选的保守派，然后将所有人聚集在该候选人的身后。
And when it comes to the issues that any congressman is likely to vote on in the next two years, the Republican, Benishek, is pretty much the same as Wilson, the Independent.
当谈到任何国会议员在未来两年内可能投票的问题时，共和党人贝尼舍克与独立派威尔逊几乎是一样的。
For Rich and Tom, the split has been so severe that Tom can't even understand where Rich is coming from.
对于里奇和汤姆来说，分歧是如此严重，以至于汤姆甚至无法理解里奇的出身。
And without an explanation from Rich, his theories have gotten pretty harsh.
如果没有里奇的解释，他的理论就会变得相当严酷。
At this point, his theory is that Glenn Wilson is being bribed with stimulus money to spoil the race, and Rich got duped.
在这一点上，他的理论是格伦·威尔逊被刺激资金贿赂以破坏竞选，而里奇被骗了。
Never once did our Tea Party say, we're going to be the spoiler and we're going to help the Democrat win.
我们的茶党从来没有说过，我们将成为搅局者，我们将帮助民主党获胜。
That was never in our discussion.
这从来没有在我们的讨论中。
Shame on you guys.
真为你们感到羞耻。
How come he couldn't see through Glenn Wilson like everybody did the first time we met him?
为什么他不能像我们第一次见到他时那样看穿格伦·威尔逊？
You're a spoiler.
你是个剧透。
You're a spoiler, and you're a spoiler.
你是一个剧透，你也是一个剧透。
Glenn Wilson, you're a spoiler.
格伦·威尔逊，你是个剧透。
You've been put here for a reason, and not all good reason.
你被放在这里是有原因的，但并不都是充分的理由。
I told Tom what Rich said, that there's 435 seats in Congress, and it might be a wake-up call if the Tea Party costs the Republicans a seat or two.
我告诉汤姆里奇的话，国会有 435 个席位，如果茶党让共和党失去一两个席位，这可能是一个警钟。
Tom said Michigan's first congressional district race, it's not just any seat.
汤姆说，密歇根州的第一次国会选区竞选，不仅仅是任何席位。
It's a symbol.
这是一个象征。
Because it was Stupak that allowed the health care bill to pass.
因为正是斯图帕克让医疗保健法案得以通过。
Tom says he has fantasies about Dan Benishek taking a seat and then someday casting the vote that repeals the health care bill.
汤姆说，他幻想丹·贝尼舍克（Dan Benishek）坐下来，然后有一天投票废除医疗保健法案。
"Wouldn't that just be so beautiful?" he said.
“这样不是很漂亮吗？”他说。
And all Glenn Wilson can do is ruin that.
格伦·威尔逊所能做的就是毁掉这一切。
According to the latest poll, the race between the Republican, Dan Benishek, and the Democrat, Gary McDowell, now a dead heat, each of them holding about 40% of the vote.
最新民意调查显示，共和党人丹·贝尼舍克(Dan Benishek)和民主党人加里·麦克道尔(Gary McDowell)之间的竞争目前已势均力敌，两人均拥有约40%的选票。
Rich's candidate, Glenn Wilson, is getting 8% of the vote.
Rich 的候选人 Glenn Wilson 获得 8% 的选票。
Meaning he could actually be a spoiler and throw the race to the Democrat.
这意味着他实际上可能会成为一个搅局者，并将竞选交给民主党。
That fact has become super stressful for a lot of Tea Party type voters, who account for many of the people supporting him.
这一事实对许多茶党类型的选民来说已经变得超级压力，他们在支持他的人中占了很大一部分。
At the beginning of the month, the Tea Party umbrella group that Rich Carlson co-founded, the Northern Michigan Liberty Alliance, got together to talk about all this.
本月初，里奇·卡尔森 (Rich Carlson) 共同创立的茶党保护伞组织北密歇根自由联盟 (Northern Michigan Liberty Alliance) 聚在一起讨论这一切。
About how people were divided, divided over the question about what exactly they should do.
关于人们如何分裂，在他们到底应该做什么的问题上存在分歧。
They met on a Saturday afternoon, at a Quality Inn next to a freeway ramp.
他们于周六下午在高速公路匝道旁的一家品质酒店见面。
OK.
好的。
Thank you for coming.
谢谢您的光临。
This place still cost us money.
这个地方还是花了我们钱的。
Anybody would like to donate a couple of bucks in our can, we would appreciate that.
如果有人愿意在我们的罐头里捐出几美元，我们将不胜感激。
About 40 people from Tea Party groups from all around northern Michigan were there that day.
当天，来自密歇根州北部各地茶党团体的大约 40 人参加了活动。
Within the first half an hour, one guy stood up and stated the whole dilemma pretty plainly.
在前半个小时内，一个人站起来，非常清楚地阐述了整个困境。
He said recently he'd read a book about Libertarianism and in the back of the book, there was a quiz.
他说最近他读了一本关于自由主义的书，书的后面有一个测验。
So he took it.
所以他接受了。
I was surprised to find out that I am 100% Libertarian in philosophy.
我很惊讶地发现我在哲学上是 100% 自由主义者。
My question is, even though I might like to be a Libertarian, I would also like to have an influence.
我的问题是，尽管我可能想成为一名自由主义者，但我也想产生影响力。
And it seems like we've got a problem to really make something happen.
似乎我们在真正实现某件事上遇到了问题。
And so, as such, I don't know anything better I can do at the a moment than to vote Republican.
因此，我现在不知道除了投票给共和党以外我还能做些什么。
I don't like that, but what do we do?
我不喜欢这样，但我们该怎么办？
Again and again, the room felt like a bunch of independent-minded idealists coming up against the hard political reality that the Republican party, the one so many of them resent, is there only real viable way to be relevant.
一次又一次，房间里的人感觉就像一群思想独立的理想主义者正在面对残酷的政治现实，即他们中的许多人所憎恨的共和党是唯一真正可行的方式来发挥作用。
Through all this, Rich Carlson sat at the front of the room, so quiet you wouldn't have known he was there.
在这一切过程中，里奇·卡尔森坐在房间的前面，安静得你根本不知道他在那里。
Then, at one point, Karen LaCross, the Vice President of the Petoskey Tea Party, Rich's old group, spoke up.
然后，有一次，里奇的老组织佩托斯基茶党的副主席凯伦·拉克罗斯（Karen LaCross）发言了。
Karen said it was possible for the Tea Party to take sides with the Republicans without being co-opted.
凯伦表示，茶党有可能在不被拉拢的情况下站在共和党一边。
She singled out Chad Stevens, this really thoughtful Libertarian guy who had co-founded the Northern Michigan Liberty Alliance with Rich.
她特别提到了查德·史蒂文斯（Chad Stevens），这位真正有思想的自由主义者，与里奇共同创立了北密歇根自由联盟。
Do not implode on each other.
不要互相内爆。
That's my concern, is we're all sitting here trying to poke each other and say, "You're wrong.
这是我担心的，我们都坐在这里试图互相戳戳并说：“你错了。
No, you're wrong.
不，你错了。
No, you're wrong." We can't do that any more.
不，你错了。”我们不能再这样做了。
And Chad, if you want to vote for a third-party candidate, you know what?
查德，如果你想投票给第三方候选人，你知道吗？
That's your zen.
这就是你的禅宗。
You know, that's what you're-- But, the bottom line is, don't sit there and poke each other in the eyes.
你知道，你就是这样——但是，底线是，不要坐在那里互相戳对方的眼睛。
We're not making any ground.
我们没有任何基础。
I'd say this, and I agree with what you said.
我会这么说，我同意你的说法。
The attacks on people, people like Rich Carlson have been tarred and feathered for advancing liberty the way he best sees fit.
对人们的攻击，像里奇·卡尔森这样的人，因为以他认为最合适的方式推进自由而被涂上柏油和羽毛。
If we all want to vote for Dan Benishek, the Republican, great.
如果我们都想投票给共和党人丹·贝尼舍克，那就太好了。
But if 10%, 15% want to advance liberty, and they're sick of the two party system?
但如果 10%、15% 的人想要推进自由，而他们厌倦了两党制度呢？
Fine, that's their call.
好吧，这是他们的决定。
The GOP has only itself to blame for people looking elsewhere.
人们把目光投向其他地方，这只能归咎于共和党自己。
For years they have thrown liberty under the bus.
多年来，他们一直将自由置于公共汽车之下。
[APPLAUSE] Ben Calhoun After about five hours if this, someone from the Glenn Wilson campaign-- that's Rich's guy-- they whispered to me that Glenn was outside and he wanted to talk to me.
[掌声] 本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 大约五个小时后，格伦·威尔逊竞选团队的一个人——也就是里奇的人——低声对我说，格伦在外面，他想和我谈谈。
I walked out and around the corner to the parking lot, where Glenn's campaign bus was idling.
我走出去，拐过街角来到停车场，格伦的竞选巴士停在那里。
It's this big silver deal, with a huge photo of Glenn's face, and a big bald eagle on the side.
这是一张大银币，上面有格伦脸部的巨幅照片，侧面还有一只大秃鹰。
A couple days before all this, I'd spent a day on the bus.
在这一切发生前几天，我在公共汽车上度过了一天。
And just to give you a little sense of him, Glenn is in his 40s, but he looks 30.
只是为了让你对他有一点了解，格伦已经 40 多岁了，但他看起来只有 30 岁。
And he drinks Mountain Dew relentlessly.
他不停地喝激浪。
I saw him drink seven or eight cans in an afternoon.
我看到他一个下午喝了七八罐。
Hey, Ben, long time no see.
嘿，本，好久不见。
Ben Calhoun Yeah, hey, how are you?
本·卡尔霍恩 是的，嘿，你好吗？
So the Tea Party break up?
那么茶党就解散了吗？
Ben Calhoun So what's up?
本·卡尔霍恩 那么，怎么了？
Are we on the air?
我们在直播吗？
Ben Calhoun Yeah.
本·卡尔霍恩 是的。
I thought that's what you wanted.
我以为这就是你想要的。
OK.
好的。
In 10 years of covering politics, I've never had any politician do something quite as bizarre as what Glenn Wilson did next.
在我报道政治的十年里，我从未见过任何政治家做过像格伦·威尔逊接下来所做的那样奇怪的事情。
He told me he wanted to fire Rich.
他告诉我他想解雇里奇。
Then he asked me what I thought of it.
然后他问我对此有何看法。
I told him that I didn't have an opinion, and even if I did, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to share it.
我告诉他我没有意见，即使有意见也不适合发表。
And then I told him that if this is why he called me out there, I would need him to say it on tape.
然后我告诉他，如果这就是他打电话给我的原因，我需要他在录音中说出来。
If that's what you wanted to tell me, then we're rolling.
如果这就是你想告诉我的，那么我们就开始吧。
I think I need to relieve Rich of his position as campaign manager and install a new campaign manager.
我想我需要解除里奇的竞选经理职位，并任命一位新的竞选经理。
We need to find a campaign manager that's able to organize and manage in a much more efficient way than Rich can.
我们需要找到一位能够比里奇更有效地组织和管理的竞选经理。
Or has.
或者有。
As soon as he comes out of this meeting.
当他从这次会议中出来时。
After the meeting, Wilson grabbed Rich, and he led him down a hallway past the hotel bar, into a small conference room.
会议结束后，威尔逊抓住了里奇，领着他穿过走廊，经过酒店酒吧，进入一间小会议室。
I waited in the hall.
我在大厅里等着。
Back on the bus, Glenn had shown me the campaign calendar and said he was going to fire Rich because he hadn't set up enough events.
回到公共汽车上，格伦给我看了竞选日历，并说他要解雇里奇，因为他没有安排足够的活动。
What I didn't say to him then was that I had spent time with the other campaigns, and their schedules weren't very different, though maybe Glenn was just too inexperienced to know that.
当时我没有对他说的是，我曾与其他竞选团队一起度过，他们的日程安排并没有太大不同，尽管格伦可能只是太缺乏经验，不知道这一点。
After about 10 minutes, Glenn walked out.
大约十分钟后，格伦走了出来。
As he passed me, he winked and said, "Thanks, have a good one." So I went to talk to Rich.
当他经过我身边时，他眨了眨眼睛说：“谢谢，祝你玩得开心。”所以我去和里奇谈话。
Glenn had taken away Rich's briefcase, computer, and his phone, which all belonged to the campaign, and Rich stood there, packing his things into a plastic shopping bag.
格伦拿走了里奇的公文包、电脑和手机，这些都是竞选活动的物品，里奇站在那儿，把他的东西装进塑料购物袋。
Total surprise to me, so.
让我感到非常惊讶，所以。
It has nothing to do with politics, just organization.
它与政治无关，只与组织有关。
So that's the way it goes.
事情就是这样。
So, can you tell me about the conversation that you just had?
那么，你能告诉我你们刚才的谈话吗？
Maybe in a day or two I can, sure.
当然，也许一两天后我就能做到。
It just happened moments ago, so I'm tired.
事情刚刚发生不久，所以我很累。
I've had a long day, and I'm looking forward to going home.
我已经度过了漫长的一天，我期待着回家。
I have to say, I feel really bad for you.
我不得不说，我真的为你感到难过。
Rich had lost the Tea Party group he'd started the year before.
里奇失去了他前一年创立的茶党团体。
He lost his best friend.
他失去了他最好的朋友。
And now, he'd just lost the job he'd given it all up for.
而现在，他刚刚失去了他为之放弃一切的工作。
I mean, you seem like you've given up a lot to be doing what you're doing right now.
我的意思是，为了现在所做的事情，你似乎已经放弃了很多。
More than what most people realize.
比大多数人意识到的还要多。
But I still believe in the cause.
但我仍然相信这个原因。
What do you mean?
你是什么意思？
Rich Carlson Well, I believe that it's very important to push forth an independent candidate.
Rich Carlson 嗯，我认为推动独立候选人非常重要。
Am I crushed or disappointed?
我是崩溃还是失望？
Yeah, I'm disappointed I couldn't see it to the end, but I'll still be involved.
是的，我很失望我没能看到最后，但我仍然会参与其中。
I'm still supportive of it.
我还是很支持的。
I'm still supportive of the campaign.
我仍然支持这项活动。
I think it's great to give people a viable option besides the normal two party system.
我认为除了正常的两党制度之外，为人们提供一个可行的选择是件好事。
For once they've got somebody that's running that can actually win this thing.
这一次他们有了真正能够赢得这场比赛的人。
A couple days after he got fired, I met with Rich one more time before leaving Michigan, just to talk about how he was feeling and what was happening now.
里奇被解雇几天后，我在离开密歇根之前再次见到了他，只是为了谈谈他的感受以及现在发生的事情。
Then, while we were sitting there, Rich got a phone call.
然后，当我们坐在那里时，里奇接到了一个电话。
The call was from a guy named Tony Cutler, a campaign staffer for the Republican candidate, Dan Benishek.
电话是一个名叫托尼·卡特勒（Tony Cutler）的人打来的，他是共和党候选人丹·贝尼舍克（Dan Benishek）的竞选工作人员。
Tony, how you doing?
托尼，你好吗？
Tony Cutler Richard, what are you doing?
托尼·卡特勒·理查德，你在做什么？
You don't want to know.
你不想知道。
Tony Cutler I heard you were released from the Glenn Wilson campaign.
托尼·卡特勒 我听说你已经从格伦·威尔逊竞选活动中被释放了。
Well, good, how are you?
嗯，很好，你好吗？
Rich Carlson I'm doing great.
里奇·卡尔森 我做得很好。
Released.
释放。
We had a difference of opinions.
我们有不同意见。
How about if I leave it at that?
如果我就这样留着怎么样？
So let's get you out on the side of bashing him by saying you left him and are against his campaign.
因此，让我们通过说你离开了他并反对他的竞选活动来抨击他。
And we'll make you look good for leaving, and we'll spin it.
我们会让你在离开时看起来很好，然后我们会旋转它。
Tony gave me permission to broadcast this conversation, though he asked that I say that he was not calling Rich on behalf of the Benishek campaign.
托尼允许我广播这段对话，尽管他要求我说他并不是代表贝尼舍克竞选团队给里奇打电话。
Which seemed like a strange request, because in the call, it was pretty clear that he was.
这似乎是一个奇怪的请求，因为在电话中，很明显他是这样的。
He was telling Rich that Rich should put out a press release, and he should lie.
他告诉里奇，里奇应该发布一份新闻稿，他应该撒谎。
He should say that he hadn't been fired.
他应该说他没有被解雇。
Instead, he'd quit out of principal because Wilson was going to be a spoiler.
相反，他辞去了校长职务，因为威尔逊将成为搅局者。
Yeah.
是的。
That's something that you and I probably need to talk about.
这可能是你和我需要讨论的事情。
Huh?
啊？
Rich Carlson That's probably something you and I need to talk about.
里奇·卡尔森 这可能是你和我需要讨论的事情。
Well, we need to talk about it right this second, because I've got people writing two stories.
好吧，我们现在需要讨论这个问题，因为我有人写了两个故事。
We've got Benishek people writing the story saying you were fired, to make it look like Glenn Wilson doesn't know what he's doing.
我们让贝尼舍克的人写了一篇报道说你被解雇了，让格伦·威尔逊看起来不知道自己在做什么。
Or we can make it look like you realized that this guy is no good, he has no vision, he's only in it for himself.
或者我们可以让你看起来好像你意识到这个人不好，他没有远见，他只是为了自己。
And you were supporting him on principal, and now that he's abandoned his principals, let's get the GOP elected and the party back on track.
你在原则上支持他，现在他已经放弃了原则，让我们让共和党当选，让该党重回正轨。
I want to try to save your image as much as we can here.
我想在这里尽可能地保存您的形象。
Right.
正确的。
Tony Cutler The article will be written by the news.
托尼·卡特勒 这篇文章将由新闻撰写。
It will read that Wilson fires his top aide, and he'll get to control the story by saying, you know, the guy didn't know what he was doing--
它将读到威尔逊解雇了他的高级助手，他将通过说，你知道，这个人不知道他在做什么来控制整个故事--
Yes.
是的。
Tony Cutler Or you come out-- I can get you in contact with the press people, and you can come out as the guy saying, you know, this is not what it's about.
托尼·卡特勒：或者你出来——我可以让你与新闻界人士联系，你可以像那个人说的那样出来，你知道，这不是事情的重点。
Slowly, over the course of the next 15 minutes, Rich caved.
在接下来的 15 分钟里，里奇慢慢地屈服了。
He said he didn't want to be part of anything that criticized Glenn Wilson, but he would go along with Tony's plan, to put out something saying Wilson was a spoiler for conservatives, and he should drop out.
他说他不想参与任何批评格伦·威尔逊的事情，但他会同意托尼的计划，发表一些言论说威尔逊是保守派的破坏者，他应该退出。
You can craft that, and then are you going to say that the Benishek campaign talked to me?
你可以设计这个，然后你会说贝尼舍克竞选团队跟我谈过吗？
All right, I'll keep in touch with you today.
好的，今天我会和你保持联系的。
After he hung up, I asked Rich about what he'd said to me before, all the things about principal over party.
挂断电话后，我问里奇他之前对我说过什么，所有关于校长高于聚会的事情。
We went back and forth again and again, because he was saying these totally contradictory things.
我们反复讨论，因为他说的是完全矛盾的话。
One minute he'd say the thing he'd been telling me all along.
前一分钟他会说出他一直在告诉我的话。
Tea Party people need to be independent, even if that means spoiling races for Republicans.
茶党人士需要独立，即使这意味着破坏共和党的竞选。
Then, the next minute, he'd say the thing he'd agree to with Tony, that Wilson would be a spoiler and he should get out.
然后，下一分钟，他就会说出他与托尼同意的话，威尔逊会搅局，他应该离开。
First and foremost, I don't want to see the Democrats take this seat.
首先，我不想看到民主党占据这个席位。
But, essentially what you had said to me before was, if an independent candidate with better core values stopped the GOP from winning this race that by the numbers, by the math, they should win, they would have incentive to listen to folks in the Liberty movement.
但是，本质上你之前对我说过的是，如果一位具有更好核心价值观的独立候选人阻止共和党赢得这场比赛，从数字上看，从数学上看，他们应该获胜，他们就会有动力去倾听自由运动人士的声音。
Unfortunately, that-- I'm not being given that opportunity anymore by the Wilson campaign.
不幸的是，威尔逊竞选团队不再给我这个机会了。
Wait.
等待。
I don't understand what you're saying.
我不明白你在说什么。
Well, we've reached a decision that I'm no longer with the campaign.
好吧，我们已经做出决定，我不再参加竞选活动。
So that is not an option for me anymore on a personal level.
因此，就我个人而言，这不再是一个选择。
But that doesn't affect how you feel about it, right?
但这并不影响你的感受，对吧？
Maybe you and I should discuss this a little bit without the microphone being on.
也许你和我应该在不打开麦克风的情况下讨论一下这个问题。
I guess I'm trying to understand which direction you're taking here.
我想我是想了解你在这里的方向。
I'm just trying to rectify what you said to me.
我只是想纠正你对我说的话。
You were saying that you're not saying he should pull out, but essentially what you just told Tony was that he should pull out.
你说你并不是说他应该退出，但本质上你刚刚告诉托尼的是他应该退出。
But I still believe that he probably should stay in the race just to rub it in the Republicans' nose.
但我仍然相信他可能应该继续参加竞选，只是为了激怒共和党人。
Just personally?
就个人而言？
Rich Carlson Yeah, personally.
里奇·卡尔森 是的，就个人而言。
But if I have a future in politics, don't you think it's wise that I say, hey, I got out of it, and he continued on?
但如果我在政治上有前途，你不认为我说，嘿，我退出了，然后他继续前进是明智的吗？
You know what's funny?
你知道什么好笑吗？
I feel like that's the most cynical thing I've heard you say.
我觉得这是我听过你说过的最愤世嫉俗的话。
I think that's reality.
我认为这就是现实。
Ben Calhoun Not 10 hours later, I got an email from the Dan Benishek campaign.
本·卡尔霍恩 不到 10 小时后，我收到了一封来自丹·贝尼舍克竞选团队的电子邮件。
It was a forwarded press release with Rich's name on it.
这是一份转发的新闻稿，上面有里奇的名字。
It read, quote, "Congressional candidate Glenn Wilson is running without the support of his top aide today.
上面写道：“国会候选人格伦·威尔逊今天在没有高级助手支持的情况下参加竞选。
Campaign manager Rich Carlson made the decision to step down from the top post, as a result of a difference in opinions with the candidate."
由于与候选人意见分歧，竞选经理里奇·卡尔森决定辞去最高职位。”
A couple weeks after all this happened, Rich told me he still feels like he did the right thing.
这一切发生几周后，里奇告诉我，他仍然觉得自己做了正确的事。
He said if anything's changed, it's that he's not sure how much he wants to be involved in politics.
他说，如果说有什么改变的话，那就是他不确定自己有多想参与政治。
I asked both Rich and Tom the other day if they'd started talking again, and they both said no. When I asked each of them if they were planning to call, they also gave me the same answer.
有一天我问里奇和汤姆他们是否又开始说话了，他们都说没有。当我问他们是否打算打电话时，他们也给了我同样的答案。
Each said they weren't going to, because they weren't the person who did something wrong.
每个人都说他们不会这样做，因为他们不是做错事的人。
Ben Calhoun in one of the producers of our show.
本·卡尔霍恩是我们节目的制片人之一。
Coming up, to paraphrase Professor Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady , why can't a Democrat be more like a Republican?
接下来，套用亨利·希金斯教授在《窈窕淑女》中的一句话，民主党人为什么不能更像共和党人呢？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show, "This Party Sucks." Stories for this mid-term election of political people who have problems with their own political parties.
今天的节目“这个派对很糟糕”。本次中期选举的故事讲述了与自己的政党存在问题的政治人士的故事。
We've arrived at Act two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, "Mister Hitt Goes to Washington."
第二幕，“希特先生去华盛顿”。
It goes without saying at this point that lots of people around the country are unhappy with the legislation that the President has pushed, the substance of what the President has done.
不言而喻，全国各地的许多人对总统推动的立法以及总统所做的实质工作感到不满。
But when you talk to so many Democrats, whatever qualms they may have with the actual programs the President has, those are overshadowed by their feelings about the President's own inability to sell his programs.
但是，当你与如此多的民主党人交谈时，无论他们对总统的实际计划有什么疑虑，这些疑虑都被他们对总统自己无法推销其计划的感受所掩盖。
A small businessman from Pennsylvania named Walt Rowen, who likes the President's programs, complained about this directly to the President's face at one of his recent town meetings.
来自宾夕法尼亚州的一位名叫沃尔特·罗文（Walt Rowen）的小商人喜欢总统的计划，他在最近的一次城镇会议上直接当着总统的面抱怨了这一点。
Your stimulus package actually funded a very ailing financial system, which was essential for small businesspeople.
你们的经济刺激计划实际上资助了一个非常不景气的金融体系，这对小商人来说至关重要。
You turned around and invested in the auto industry, and I believe saved millions of jobs.
你们转身投资了汽车行业，我相信拯救了数百万个就业岗位。
And yet for some reason, the public just doesn't get it.
但由于某种原因，公众就是不明白。
Because you're losing the war of sound bites.
因为你正在输掉原声摘要之战。
You're losing the media cycles.
你正在失去媒体周期。
On issue after issue, Republicans have catchy, understandable sound bites, and the Democrats seem to have nothing.
在一个又一个的问题上，共和党人都有朗朗上口、易于理解的原话，而民主党人似乎什么也没有。
The stimulus is another one where Democrats are fighting a well articulated, oft-repeated, Republican narrative about deficits and a failure to deliver results with, really, pretty much nothing.
此次刺激计划是民主党与共和党关于赤字和未能取得成果的清晰、经常重复的叙述进行斗争的又一举措，事实上，几乎没有任何成果。
On health care, the lack of any persuasive message has left Democrats running from the issue.
在医疗保健方面，由于缺乏任何有说服力的信息，民主党人回避了这个问题。
It's barely mentioned in TV ads in congressional races around the country.
全国各地国会竞选的电视广告中几乎没有提及这一点。
On finance reform, there's been no understandable explanation for what the hell led us into the recession and what is needed to fix it.
在金融改革方面，对于到底是什么导致我们陷入衰退以及需要采取什么措施来解决这个问题，还没有任何可以理解的解释。
Back in 1930s, FDR used high-profile hearings, Pecora hearings, to create a national consensus about what had gone wrong in the economy and a mandate for what to do next.
早在 1930 年代，罗斯福就利用备受瞩目的佩科拉听证会就经济出了问题达成了全国共识，并规定了下一步行动。
Nothing has played that role for the Democrats today.
如今，民主党还没有发挥过这样的作用。
Jack Hitt, who voted for Obama back in 2008, normally prefers to watch politics on the sidelines.
2008 年投票支持奥巴马的杰克·希特 (Jack Hitt) 通常更喜欢在场外观看政治。
But after witnessing this two-year display of lame-assery, he decided he had to go to Washington to try to understand.
但在目睹了两年来的蹩脚言论后，他决定必须去华盛顿尝试去理解。
What happened?
发生了什么？
These new Democrats who came to power in 2008 were supposed to be such savvy communicators.
这些2008年上台的新民主党人被认为是非常精明的沟通者。
Two years ago, all over the country, Democrats adored Obama's verbal jujitsu, his team's rapid response to attacks and daily messages.
两年前，全国各地的民主党人都对奥巴马的口头柔术、他的团队对攻击和日常信息的快速反应表示赞赏。
When Sarah Palin tried the "palling around with terrorists" shtick, linking Obama to '60s radical Bill Ayers, the rapid response team laughed it off, saying, "Sure, Obama denounced these terrible bombings that happened.
当萨拉·佩林尝试“与恐怖分子打交道”的伎俩，将奥巴马与 60 年代激进分子比尔·艾尔斯联系起来时，快速反应小组一笑置之，说：“当然，奥巴马谴责了发生的这些可怕的爆炸事件。
When he was eight years old." They knew how to do it.
当他八岁的时候。”他们知道该怎么做。
The campaign slogan, "Yes we can," seemed as much about saying that Democrats could create a message machine just as effective as Fox News, the right wing thing tanks, and the weekend echo chamber of deployed pundits.
竞选口号“是的，我们可以”似乎是在说民主党可以创造一个像福克斯新闻、右翼坦克以及部署专家的周末回音室一样有效的信息机器。
Where did that aggressiveness go?
那种攻击性去哪儿了？
When Republicans called the President a Muslim, Barack Obama himself said, "I will always put my money--"
当共和党人称总统为穆斯林时，巴拉克·奥巴马本人说：“我将永远把我的钱——”
On the American people.
对美国人民来说。
And I'm not going to be worrying too much about whatever rumors are floating around.
我不会太担心周围流传的任何谣言。
Really?
真的吗？
I mean, by now even my mother knows that if you don't respond to an attack, then the attack becomes the new reality.
我的意思是，现在连我母亲都知道，如果你不对攻击做出反应，那么攻击就会成为新的现实。
If your enemies insist that you are a Bolshevik and no one responds with a coherent counter message, then people who think you are a Bolshevik will get elected to Congress in disturbing numbers.
如果你的敌人坚持认为你是布尔什维克，而没有人以连贯的反信息回应，那么认为你是布尔什维克的人将以令人不安的数量当选为国会议员。
Which is about to happen.
这即将发生。
Is no one who could call them up calling them up and telling them the obvious?
没有人可以给他们打电话并告诉他们显而易见的事情吗？
Or maybe there's some theory behind the inaction that we're just not seeing.
或者也许在不作为的背后有一些我们只是没有看到的理论。
Maybe this is one of Obama's long game tactics, one of his legendary triple bank shots.
也许这是奥巴马的长期策略之一，也是他传奇的三重银行投篮之一。
For nearly two years I've wondered, what's going on over there?
近两年来我一直在想，那里发生了什么？
What are the Democratic strategists thinking?
民主党战略家在想什么？
To find out, I turn to one of the top insiders.
为了找到答案，我向一位顶级内部人士求助。
Someone who's close to Rahm Emanuel, and talks to David Axelrod.
与拉姆·伊曼纽尔关系密切并与大卫·阿克塞尔罗德交谈的人。
Who meets with the top Democrats in the House and Senate.
谁会见众议院和参议院的民主党高层。
Who writes an occasional candidate speech and also works the media side as a commentator on CNN.
他偶尔撰写候选人演讲稿，也在媒体方面担任 CNN 的评论员。
The former Clinton aide, Paul Begala.
前克林顿助手保罗·贝加拉。
The first thing I learned when we sat down in a conference room in DC was not reassuring.
当我们坐在华盛顿的会议室时，我学到的第一件事并不令人放心。
He's easily as frustrated with the Democrats as I am.
他和我一样很容易对民主党感到沮丧。
Take the recent statement from the President in The New York Times that, quote, "bipartisan cooperation will flower right after the election."
以总统最近在《纽约时报》发表的声明为例，“两党合作将在选举后立即开花结果”。
When monkeys fly out my ass.
当猴子从我屁股里飞出来的时候。
Jack Hitt Anyone who's watched the last 15 years knows how smartly Republicans craft their messages.
杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）任何看过过去 15 年的人都知道共和党人如何巧妙地传达他们的信息。
Grover Norquist or some other leading conservative strategist faxes or emails out the topic of the day and a list of phrases to use in discussing it.
格罗弗·诺奎斯特或其他一些领先的保守派战略家通过传真或电子邮件列出了当天的主题以及讨论该主题时使用的短语列表。
Hence the term "talking points memo." Conservatives everywhere fan out and repeat the talking points in every form of media.
因此出现了“谈话要点备忘录”这一术语。各地的保守派在各种形式的媒体上散布并重复谈话要点。
Everybody's talking about it, so their position seems inevitable.
每个人都在谈论这件事，所以他们的立场似乎是不可避免的。
If the Democrats are attempting anything like this, it's some very subtle jujitsu.
如果民主党正在尝试类似的事情，那么这就是一些非常微妙的柔术。
I put it to Begala, is what looks to me like a lack of strategy, actually a strategy?
我对贝加拉说，在我看来是缺乏战略，实际上是战略吗？
For example, during the health care debate, right, the other side starts shouting "death panels." And the Obama administration and the Democratic party at large has no answer to this, right?
例如，在医疗保健辩论中（右），另一方开始大喊“死亡小组”。奥巴马政府和整个民主党对此没有答案，对吗？
They don't have a theme of the day that they're promoting for health care reform.
他们没有推动医疗改革的当天主题。
You know, the answer is, you want to see a death panel?
你知道，答案是，你想看死亡小组吗？
I will take you to a death panel.
我会带你去死亡小组。
And go to a big private insurance company, stand out in front of their building, and tell the story of the girl-- I can't remember her name now, I think it was Natalie-- there was a little girl who was denied her care and she died.
去一家大型私人保险公司，站在他们的大楼前，讲述那个女孩的故事——我现在不记得她的名字了，我想是娜塔莉——有一个小女孩没有得到照顾，她死了。
That's a real death panel.
这才是真正的死亡面板。
And it happens every day in the private insurance system.
这种情况在私人保险系统中每天都会发生。
That's the real answer.
这才是真正的答案。
That is the real answer.
这才是真正的答案。
So why didn't Democrats hear that two years ago?
那么为什么民主党人两年前没有听到这个消息呢？
Why didn't they say it?
他们为什么不说呢？
Jack Hitt Why didn't they say it?
杰克·希特 他们为什么不说呢？
And what did they say?
他们说什么？
Paul Begala You know, some said, "Sure, fine," and then they went of and did something else.
保罗·贝加拉（Paul Begala） 你知道，有些人说，“当然，很好”，然后他们就离开去做别的事情了。
Others-- there's a real fear in the Democratic party of appearing anti-business.
其他人——民主党真正担心会显得反商业。
And Democrats are not anti-business, but they're really worried about it.
民主党人并不反对商业，但他们确实对此感到担忧。
There's a terrible concern they're going to appear anti-business.
人们非常担心他们会显得反商业。
They worry endlessly.
他们无休无止地担心。
Or take the "Obama is a Muslim" line.
或者采取“奥巴马是穆斯林”的路线。
Rush Limbaugh now regularly refers to the President "Imam Obama." If this were say, Joy Behar, referring to the Republicans as Klan members-- actually that happened.
拉什·林堡现在经常称总统为“伊玛目奥巴马”。如果乔伊·贝哈尔这样说，将共和党人称为三K党成员——那么事实确实发生了。
And the Republican response was one you've seen dozens of times on all sorts of issues.
共和党的反应是你在各种问题上见过数十次的反应。
The pundits fanned out onto the talk shows, turned indignantly to whichever unlucky Democrat happened to be booked on the panel, and demanded, "Tom, I would love to discuss the economy.
专家们分散到脱口秀节目中，愤怒地转向恰好被列入小组成员的不幸的民主党人，并要求：“汤姆，我很想讨论经济。
But before that, I insist that you join me in denouncing Joy Behar for comparing Republicans to the Klan."
但在此之前，我坚持要求你和我一起谴责乔伊·贝哈尔将共和党人比作三K党。”
That's how it's done.
就是这样完成的。
Push back against ridiculous language.
抵制荒谬的语言。
Put the other side on the defensive.
让对方处于防守状态。
Make them cringe.
让他们畏缩。
A standard part of the Republican play book for the last 20 years.
这是过去 20 年来共和党剧本的标准部分。
Why don't Democrats just do that?
民主党人为什么不这样做呢？
Well, Begala actually knows the answer.
好吧，贝加拉实际上知道答案。
He says Barack Obama doesn't want to offend anybody.
他说巴拉克·奥巴马不想冒犯任何人。
There's a billion Muslims in this world, and there's nothing wrong with them.
这个世界上有十亿穆斯林，他们没有任何问题。
And there's a whole lot of Muslims in American, and whole lot in his military who are risking their lives for us.
美国有很多穆斯林，他的军队中有很多穆斯林正在为我们冒着生命危险。
So he can't accept any kind of rubric that suggests that somehow it's a pejorative to call you a Muslim.
所以他不能接受任何表明称你为穆斯林是一种贬义的说法。
I'm just saying for the President himself.
我只是代表总统本人说的。
Now--
现在——
Exactly.
正是如此。
That's where he needs his side, and his party, to put it out.
这就是他需要他的一方和他的政党来解决问题的地方。
In Kentucky, Jack Conway has asserted that Rand Paul, a million years ago, did something that was vaguely non-Christian, and all the Republicans have their petticoats up.
在肯塔基州，杰克·康威断言兰德·保罗一百万年前做了一些有点非基督教的事情，所有共和党人都把衬裙掀起来了。
OK?
好的？
Let me just explain what I'm talking about here.
让我解释一下我在这里所说的内容。
Jack Conway is the Democrat running for Senate in Kentucky, and he ran a TV ad about his opponent, Republican Rand Paul, about how when he was a student at a Christian college, Rand Paul was a member of a secret society that mocked Christianity.
杰克·康威是竞选肯塔基州参议员的民主党人，他投放了一则关于他的对手、共和党人兰德·保罗的电视广告，广告中讲述了兰德·保罗在基督教大学读书时如何成为一个嘲笑基督教的秘密社团的成员。
Conway is being attacked from all sides for questioning his opponent's faith on TV.
康威因在电视上质疑对手的信仰而受到各方攻击。
And Conway may lose the election because he's brought-- because of this issue.
康威可能会输掉选举，因为他因为这个问题而被带来。
When they do show some cojones, there's always someone saying, "Oh, don't do that, don't do that." And I think that-- [INTERPOSING VOICES]
当他们确实展示一些科琼斯时，总是有人说，“哦，不要那样做，不要那样做。”我认为——[插入声音]
I've got to jump in on this.
我必须介入此事。
Paul Begala OK.
保罗·贝加拉 好的。
You're right, Conway had some cojones.
你是对的，康威有一些科琼斯。
But who are the people who jumped on him for running that ad?
但那些因为他投放广告而攻击他的人是谁呢？
Democrats.
民主党人。
Some did.
有些人做到了。
I defended it.
我为它辩护。
I did.
我做到了。
Strongly.
强烈。
No. It just-- it seems like there's always an excuse for why Democrats have to retreat and cringe.
不，只是——民主党人似乎总是有借口不得不退缩和畏缩。
You know, there's always, like, well we don't want to offend the Muslims, so we're not going to engage on the Obama is a Muslim President.
你知道，我们总是不想冒犯穆斯林，所以我们不会讨论奥巴马是穆斯林总统的问题。
We don't want to engage on death panels or health care too much, because it might make us look anti-insurance company or anti-business.
我们不想过多参与死亡小组或医疗保健，因为这可能会让我们看起来反保险公司或反商业。
So there's always an excuse for why they can't push back.
所以他们总是有借口不能反击。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Jack Hitt Then, in early September, Obama and his team seemed to wake up.
杰克·希特 然后，在九月初，奥巴马和他的团队似乎醒悟了。
Obama said that the Republicans were holding, quote, "Middle-class tax cuts hostage to millionaire and billionaire cuts." The next day, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner repeated that line almost word for word.
奥巴马表示，共和党坚持“中产阶级减税受制于百万富翁和亿万富翁减税”。第二天，财政部长蒂姆·盖特纳几乎一字不差地重复了这句话。
A real talking point.
一个真正的话题。
I looked forward to one of those Jon Stewart bits where he quotes a half dozen officials robotically reciting the same sound bite before he rests his face in his open palms.
我很期待乔恩·斯图尔特（Jon Stewart）的其中一篇片段，他引用了六名官员的话说，在他将脸放在张开的手掌上之前，他们机械地背诵了相同的原声片段。
Only this time it would be Democrats, not Republicans.
只是这一次是民主党，而不是共和党。
They want to hold these middle-class tax cuts hostage until they get an additional tax cut for the wealthiest 2% of Americans.
他们希望将这些中产阶级减税作为人质，直到他们为最富有的 2% 的美国人提供额外的减税。
Hold middle-class tax cuts hostage to make permanent tax cuts that go to just the top 2% of earners in the country.
以中产阶级减税为条件，对国内收入最高的 2% 人群进行永久性减税。
$700 billion to give a tax cut worth an average of $100,000 to millionaires and billionaires.
7000亿美元为百万富翁和亿万富翁提供平均10万美元的减税。
To have us go out and borrow $700 billion from our children.
让我们出去向我们的孩子借7000亿美元。
And it's a tax cut economists say would do little to add momentum to our economy.
经济学家表示，这项减税举措对增加我们的经济动力无济于事。
Little impact on job creation and years of stagnation in middle-class wages.
对创造就业机会影响不大，中产阶级工资多年来停滞不前。
I thought, OK, this election is on.
我想，好吧，这次选举开始了。
The Democrats would force the issue to the floor and make Republicans vote against a middle-class tax cut weeks before an election.
民主党将在大选前几周迫使共和党人投票反对中产阶级减税方案，从而迫使这一问题落到实处。
We do have a two party system, and the system is working.
我们确实有两党制度，而且这个制度正在发挥作用。
Predictably, the Republicans pushed back with classic rapid response.
不出所料，共和党以典型的快速反应予以反击。
Senator John Kyl distilled this into two words: class warfare.
参议员约翰·凯尔将其浓缩为两个词：阶级斗争。
The Democrats' response?
民主党有何反应？
They panicked, and went into their usual crouch.
他们惊慌失措，像往常一样蹲下。
A day later it was decided, the issue would be shelved until after the election.
一天后决定，这个问题将被搁置到选举之后。
They would not run on tax cuts, the most effective political issue in America.
他们不会就减税这一美国最有效的政治问题进行竞选。
I can't.
我不能。
I can't defend it, put it that way.
我无法捍卫它，这么说吧。
Explain it, because they let the senators who are up in this election cycle make the decision on whether they voted on it.
解释一下，因为他们让在这个选举周期中上升的参议员决定是否投票。
And the ones who were up in the cycle said, "You know, I'd just as soon just go home and run my campaign, rather than have the tax issue up." I think it was a colossal mistake.
那些在周期中排名靠前的人说，“你知道，我宁愿回家继续我的竞选活动，也不愿讨论税收问题。”我认为这是一个巨大的错误。
I cannot imagine the Republicans leaving an issue on the table that they win by two to one, eight weeks before an election.
我无法想象共和党人会在选举前八周将他们以二比一获胜的问题摆在桌面上。
I cannot imagine that.
我无法想象这一点。
It is a divisive issue, by the way, but it divides two to one for the Democrats.
顺便说一句，这是一个存在分歧的问题，但对民主党来说，它是二比一的分歧。
It really infuriated me.
这真的激怒了我。
But, see, that's what I mean.
但是，你看，这就是我的意思。
There are people in my party-- and, believe me, I was involved in meetings with strategists, not politicians, where we were screaming and I was hurling foul language about this.
我的政党中有一些人——相信我，我参加了与战略家而不是政客的会议，我们在会议上尖叫，而我对此大骂脏话。
And the view was, Democrats can never win a race on taxes.
人们的观点是，民主党永远无法赢得税收竞赛。
We can never win if the issue is taxes.
如果问题是税收，我们永远无法获胜。
I just don't agree.
我只是不同意。
I went to them.
我去找他们。
I gave them a chart out of The Wall Street Journal that tracked the tax issue during the '08 election.
我给了他们一张来自《华尔街日报》的图表，该图表追踪了 08 年大选期间的税收问题。
On Labor Day, John McCain and Barack Obama were tied on the question of who do you trust on the issue of taxes.
劳动节那天，约翰·麦凯恩和巴拉克·奥巴马在税收问题上该相信谁的问题上争论不休。
Barack Obama went out every single day after that and said, "If you make less than $250,000, I'm going to cut your taxes.
此后，巴拉克·奥巴马每天都出去说：“如果你的收入低于 25 万美元，我就会给你减税。
If you make more, I'm not." Every day.
如果你赚得更多，我就不会了。”每天。
By election day, he was ahead, I think, by 16 points.
我认为，到选举日时，他领先了 16 个百分点。
Maybe 14.
也许14。
So what does that tell you?
那么这告诉你什么呢？
It tells you, if you wage the fight, you can win the fight.
它告诉你，如果你发动战斗，你就能赢得战斗。
But you can't win it if you don't fight.
但如果你不去战斗，你就无法赢得胜利。
I'm going to back to this question.
我要回到这个问题。
So why-- do you have any inside information as to why the Obama administration and the Democratic party at large abandoned a sure thing for this campaign, tactically?
那么，您是否有任何内部消息可以说明为什么奥巴马政府和整个民主党在战术上放弃了这次竞选的确定的事情？
Was there a secret theory that they had that this would work in their favor?
他们是否有一个秘密理论认为这会对他们有利？
They believed that any discussion of taxes would be to their detriment.
他们认为任何有关税收的讨论都会对他们不利。
There's always an excuse.
总有借口。
I had come to Washington to understand the new media strategy of the revived Democratic party.
我来到华盛顿是为了了解复兴的民主党的新媒体战略。
Instead, I discovered something the dated back almost a century, to when Will Rogers first cracked that joke.
相反，我发现了一些可以追溯到近一个世纪前的事情，即威尔·罗杰斯第一次开出这个笑话的时候。
"I'm not a member of an organized party.
“我不是有组织的政党的成员。
I'm a Democrat." I couldn't believe it.
我是民主党人。”我简直不敢相信。
Again, I turned to Begala.
我再次转向贝加拉。
It's not even clear that the Democrats have a messaging machine.
甚至不清楚民主党是否拥有消息传递机器。
Is there a phone call?
有电话吗？
Does a fax go out?
传真出去了吗？
Is an email-- is anybody in touch with anybody every day?
是电子邮件——有人每天都与别人联系吗？
Is there?
有没有？
My guess is it's those three different operations, the House, the Senate, and the White House.
我的猜测是这三个不同的部门：众议院、参议院和白宫。
And they try to intersect as much as they can.
他们尝试尽可能多地交叉。
But, no, I don't think the Democrats have this sort of coordination.
但是，不，我不认为民主党有这种协调能力。
It's looser.
比较宽松了
I've been working toward that goal all my career.
我整个职业生涯都在朝着这个目标努力。
But I don't think we're there.
但我不认为我们在那里。
But it is true, they're never going to be as organized.
但事实是，他们永远不会像现在这样有组织。
Now, there is--
现在，有——
But why is that?
但这是为什么呢？
Paul Begala It's the nature of the culture.
Paul Begala 这是文化的本质。
It just is.
确实如此。
I'm serious.
我是认真的。
I mean, I've done center-left parties all around the world.
我的意思是，我在世界各地举办过中左翼政党。
And in the main, people who tend to be very corporate, very hierarchical, very obedient, tend to be conservative.
总的来说，那些非常有组织性、非常有等级观念、非常顺从的人往往是保守的。
We don't just sit waiting for orders on the left.
我们不只是坐在左边等待命令。
So there is no daily phone call or email that goes out from the White House, saying here's what we want to push today.
因此，白宫不会每天打来电话或发送电子邮件，说这就是我们今天想要推动的事情。
Here's what we want to try to-- Here's what you should be talking about, or alerting the nation to.
这就是我们想要尝试的——这就是你应该谈论的，或者提醒全国注意的。
Right.
正确的。
No, there is definitely is an email that goes out every day to talkers.
不，肯定有一封电子邮件每天都会发送给谈话者。
And there are talkers' calls and so forth.
还有谈话者的电话等等。
I have to say, I don't get on them.
我不得不说，我不喜欢他们。
And I'm a pretty loyal Democrat.
我是一个非常忠诚的民主党人。
And I don't read their talking points on the air.
我不会在广播中阅读他们的谈话要点。
I don't.
我不知道。
That's what I mean, it's a cultural thing.
这就是我的意思，这是一种文化。
Here am I, a total Democrat, and I'm an Obama Democrat, and I get stuff from the White House and I delete it.
我是一个彻头彻尾的民主党人，我是奥巴马民主党人，我从白宫得到了一些东西，然后将其删除。
I was like, I"m not going to read that crap on the air.
我当时想，我不会在广播中读那些废话。
I think for myself.
我为自己思考。
Paul, you were just saying how you were trying to build this infrastructure to mimic the Grover Norquist machine.
保罗，你刚才说你如何尝试构建这个基础设施来模仿格罗弗·诺奎斯特机器。
I mean, if you're not paying attention to your own machine, or the one that you're trying to build, why would any Democrat?
我的意思是，如果你不关注你自己的机器，或者你试图建造的机器，为什么会有民主党人呢？
Right.
对。
That's a good point.
这是一个很好的观点。
But, also, some of it is, I think, as I said, we like to think for ourselves.
但是，正如我所说，我认为其中一些是我们喜欢为自己思考。
Second, you know, you're going to have to bleep this, but my [BLEEP] is better than their [BLEEP], so I don't need their [BLEEP].
其次，你知道，你必须发出哔声，但我的 [BLEEP] 比他们的 [BLEEP] 更好，所以我不需要他们的 [BLEEP]。
Did you get that?
你明白了吗？
Even Begala, who's dream has been to create such a machine, admits that he'd rather hit the delete button and fling is own poo.
就连一直梦想创造这样一台机器的贝加拉也承认，他宁愿按下删除按钮，然后扔掉自己的粪便。
Which explains why the many voices of the Democrats today sound like argle bargle white noise, muttered into a thousand microphones, against which the clarity of the conservative position rings as the only truth anyone can hear.
这就解释了为什么今天民主党的许多声音听起来就像对着一千个麦克风低声嘀咕的白噪音，而保守派立场的清晰听起来是任何人都能听到的唯一真相。
Though Begala told me he actually thinks the Democrats have gotten better in the last few weeks, and that there will be some surprises among the massive losses.
尽管贝加拉告诉我，他实际上认为民主党在过去几周里已经变得更好，并且在巨大的损失中会有一些意外。
Constructive surprises.
建设性的惊喜。
You will find the Democrats who survived are the ones who had some spine.
你会发现幸存下来的民主党人都是有骨气的人。
They're not the ones who ran away saying, "Oh, I didn't vote for health care and I didn't--" you know?
他们不是那些逃跑时说：“哦，我没有投票支持医疗保健，我没有——”你知道吗？
No. They're going to be the ones who stood up.
不，他们将是那些站起来的人。
I'm leaving now, tonight, literally, to go to Ohio to campaign for this guy John Boccieri.
我现在就要离开，今晚，毫不夸张地说，去俄亥俄州为约翰·博切里这个人竞选。
Iraq war veteran, he represents a district that had been Republican for 60 years before he was elected.
他是伊拉克战争老兵，代表的选区在他当选之前已经是共和党人了 60 年。
He cast one of the deciding votes for the health care bill.
他对医疗保健法案投下了决定性的一票。
And he was asked about it in his heavily Republican district.
他在共和党占多数的选区被问及此事。
And he said, "You know, I used to think I was brave and I used to think I was tough.
他说：“你知道，我曾经认为自己很勇敢，也曾经认为自己很坚强。
And I've flown into enemy fire, been on four combat missions.
我曾飞入敌人的炮火中，执行过四次战斗任务。
But I'm just not tough enough to look this lady in the eye who's got breast cancer and tell her I'm going to deny her health care.
但我只是不够坚强，无法直视这位患有乳腺癌的女士的眼睛并告诉她我将拒绝她的医疗保健。
I'm not tough enough to do that.
我还不够坚强，无法做到这一点。
If you want somebody that tough, you've got to vote for a Republican."
如果你想要一个如此强硬的人，你就必须投票给共和党人。”
I love this guy.
我爱这个人。
I think John Boccieri is going to win.
我认为约翰·博切里会获胜。
I hope he does, I'm going out to help him.
我希望他能这么做，我会出去帮助他。
But if he does, people will say, well maybe I ought to be more like that than like some of these, you know, wimpier Democrats.
但如果他这样做了，人们会说，也许我应该更像那样，而不是像其中一些，你知道的，更软弱的民主党人。
Everyone is comparing this year's coming tsunami to the wave election of 1994.
每个人都在将今年即将到来的海啸与 1994 年的浪潮选举进行比较。
That's when the Republicans took control of the House from the Democrats for the first time since 1947.
那时，共和党自 1947 年以来首次从民主党手中夺取了众议院控制权。
But that was only half the story.
但这只是故事的一半。
The Republicans in those days were led by a lethargic bore of a man named Bob Michael.
那时的共和党是由一个名叫鲍勃·迈克尔（Bob Michael）的、昏昏欲睡、无聊的人领导的。
He was rotund in a 19th century cartoon sort of way and spoke in tones that would silence a colicky baby.
他身材圆润，就像 19 世纪卡通片中的人物一样，说话的语气足以让绞痛的婴儿安静下来。
The young punk and back-bencher Newt Gingrich had declared war that year, not only on Democrats, but on Bob Michael.
年轻的朋克和后座议员纽特·金里奇那一年不仅向民主党宣战，还向鲍勃·迈克尔宣战。
Michael's certainty that Democrats would always control the House and that his job was to speak carefully and collect their crumbs was the real corruption Gingrich identified as the rot in the old Republican party.
迈克尔坚信民主党将永远控制众议院，而他的工作就是小心翼翼地说话并收集他们的面包屑，这才是金里奇认为旧共和党中的真正腐败。
One that would welcome conservative ideas.
一个欢迎保守思想的人。
The current Tea Party rebellion is much the same.
当前的茶党叛乱大致相同。
They've primaried and overthrown some of the most establishment old bull conservatives in Congress.
他们在国会中初选并推翻了一些最老牌的公牛保守派。
And next year they'll probably destroy Republican moderates, like Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Olympia Snow of Maine.
明年他们可能会摧毁共和党温和派，比如南卡罗来纳州的林赛·格雷厄姆和缅因州的奥林匹亚·斯诺。
Meanwhile, Democrats live one election at a time, one issue at a time, unaware that they've become electoral wallpaper, in front of which daring conservatives delight in performing, and that the Democrats' only hope is to understand that their real enemy is not the Republican party, but their own imaginations.
与此同时，民主党人一次一次地经历一场选举，一次一次地处理一个问题，却没有意识到自己已经成为选举的壁纸，而大胆的保守派则乐于在这张壁纸前表演，而民主党人唯一的希望就是明白，他们真正的敌人不是共和党，而是他们自己的想象。
Jack Hitt lives in New Haven.
杰克·希特住在纽黑文。
[MUSIC - "WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?" BY G.W.
[音乐-“你站在哪一边？”按毛重
MCLEANNAN]
麦克莱南]
Our program was produced today by Ben Calhoun and our senior producer Julie Snyder with Alex Blumberg, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Johnathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 和我们的高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德 (Julie Snyder) 与亚历克斯·布伦伯格 (Alex Blumberg)、简·菲尔特斯 (Jane Feltes)、莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig)、乔纳森·门吉瓦 (Johnathan Menjivar)、丽莎·波拉克 (Lisa Pollak)、罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien)、艾丽莎·希普 (Alissa Shipp) 和南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 共同制作。
Seth Lind is our production manager, Emily Condon is our office manager.
Seth Lind 是我们的生产经理，Emily Condon 是我们的办公室经理。
Production help from Shawn Wen.
Shawn Wen 提供制作帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by Torey Malatia.
Torey Malatia 对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督。
He's kind of sore with me because we had plans this weekend.
他对我有点生气，因为我们这个周末有计划。
I took a little freelance work instead to make a little money.
我做了一些自由职业来赚点钱。
I hope to hell it was a lot.
我真希望那是很多。
I hope it was a king's ransom, dude.
我希望这是一笔国王的赎金，伙计。
I hope it wasn't just some chump change.
我希望这不仅仅是一些零钱。
'Cause I would hope that my friendship is worth 10 grand.
因为我希望我的友谊值十英镑。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。