41: Politics - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #41 | November 8, 1996 41: Politics Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 41 集 | 1996 年 11 月 8 日 41：政治 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Act One: Life in the White House Ira Glass So what was it like after election day this week for the couple who live in the White House?
第一幕：白宫生活 艾拉·格拉斯 那么本周选举日过后，这对住在白宫的夫妇过得怎么样呢？
Every morning, they got up, put on their robes, went downstairs, and jumped in the pool for a swim.
每天早上，他们起床，穿上长袍，下楼，跳进水池里游泳。
And we do that year round.
我们全年都这样做。
And, of course, coffee is very mandatory.
当然，咖啡也是必不可少的。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
And then?
然后呢？
Rosemary Eckersley Well, the usual.
罗斯玛丽·埃克斯利 嗯，平常的事。
I go fight with the face and Max Factor and my husband goes off to the office.
我去和脸打架，蜜丝佛陀和我丈夫去办公室。
The office in this case is not the Oval Office.
本例中的办公室不是椭圆形办公室。
No, she spends more time there.
不，她在那里花的时间更多。
He drives into San Francisco where he has an office for his business in international finance.
他开车来到旧金山，在那里他有一个办公室，负责他的国际金融业务。
The couple who live in this house are named Norman Eckersley and Rosemary Ashley Eckersley.
住在这所房子里的夫妇名叫诺曼·埃克斯利和罗斯玛丽·阿什利·埃克斯利。
Neither is a member of the Democratic Party.
两人都不是民主党成员。
Both have lots more money than the President of the United States.
两人的钱都比美国总统多得多。
And the White House-- this one, anyway-- is about 15 miles south of San Francisco in a suburb called Hillsborough.
白宫——无论如何，就是这一座——位于旧金山以南约 15 英里的希尔斯伯勒郊区。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life .
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, surprising stories of American politics.
今天我们的节目讲述美国政治的令人惊讶的故事。
We have campaign diaries from Michael Lewis, a new theory of politics and television from Henry Jenkins, the Mexican-American self-deportation movement, Joan Jett Black, and we start with Act One, Life in the White House.
我们有迈克尔·刘易斯的竞选日记、亨利·詹金斯的政治和电视新理论、墨西哥裔美国人自我驱逐运动、琼·杰特·布莱克，我们从第一幕《白宫生活》开始。
My tour guide at the Western White House-- this White House-- was the real estate agent who's trying to sell the thing, Ann Riley.
我在西部白宫（这座白宫）的导游是一位试图出售这栋房子的房地产经纪人，安·莱利（Ann Riley）。
And she began the tour with a packet of old photos and press clippings that she'd assembled.
她带着一包她收集的旧照片和新闻剪报开始了这次旅行。
This is really quite a fascinating home, and it has had several lives.
这确实是一个非常迷人的家，它已经经历了好几辈子了。
It started off this.
事情就是从这个开始的。
Originally, this just looks like just a regular big old house.
原本，这看起来只是一座普通的大老房子。
It was a Victorian.
这是维多利亚时代的。
It was an old Victorian.
这是一个古老的维多利亚时代的建筑。
Here it is in the beginning.
这是一开始的情况。
The house has been around for over half the life of the United States.
这所房子已经存在了美国一半以上的历史。
And it's the kind of huge structure that reflects every prevailing fashion over time.
这种巨大的结构反映了随着时间的推移每一种流行的时尚。
It's been redesigned in the neoclassical style, the French Normandy style, as a massive Swiss chalet, as a Mediterranean home with a tile roof.
它被重新设计成新古典主义风格、法国诺曼底风格、一座巨大的瑞士小木屋、一座带有瓦片屋顶的地中海住宅。
And finally, in 1930, George Hearst, the oldest son of newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst, bought this place and hired Julia Morgan, the architect who designed Hearst's castle-- San Simeon-- to turn this house into a facsimile of the White House.
最后，在 1930 年，报业大亨威廉·伦道夫·赫斯特 (William Randolph Hearst) 的长子乔治·赫斯特 (George Hearst) 买下了这个地方，并聘请设计赫斯特城堡圣西蒙 (San Simeon) 的建筑师朱莉娅·摩根 (Julia Morgan) 将这座房子改造成白宫的复制品。
Why?
为什么？
Ann Riley says the best guess anybody has is this.
安·莱利（Ann Riley）说，任何人的最佳猜测就是这个。
Julia Morgan's charge was to deliver a house that he could invite the presidents to stay in when they came to the West Coast.
朱莉娅·摩根的职责是交付一栋房子，供他在总统来到西海岸时邀请他们入住。
So that's the myth.
这就是神话。
And I say it's a story.
我说这是一个故事。
And we actually don't know exactly why he decided.
事实上我们并不知道他为什么做出这样的决定。
There's no documentation or quotes or anything from him saying, "Here is why I'm going to do this."
没有任何文件或引述或任何他说的“这就是我要这样做的原因”。
Well, his father, you know, had all these wonderful Hollywood starlets cavorting all over San Simeon.
好吧，你知道，他的父亲让所有这些出色的好莱坞明星在圣西蒙到处嬉戏。
There was all this great stuff going on.
所有这些伟大的事情正在发生。
And I think George was just trying to rise to the occasion.
我认为乔治只是想应对这种情况。
So what else would be famous besides a movie starlet?
那么除了电影明星之外，还能有什么出名呢？
Well, the presidents of the United States might give him a little muscle in the family feud.
好吧，美国总统可能会在家族争斗中给他一点力量。
It just feels so "mmm."
就是感觉很“嗯”。
And once your dad builds Hearst Castle, what are you going to do?
一旦你爸爸建造了赫斯特城堡，你打算做什么？
It's not an exact duplicate.
它不是完全重复的。
Yes, there's an oval office.
是的，有一个椭圆形办公室。
Yes, there's a rose garden.
是的，有一个玫瑰园。
Yes, the columns in the window bays.
是的，窗台上的柱子。
the fireplace mantles, and the pediments above doors are modeled on those at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
壁炉罩和门上方的山形墙饰均仿照宾夕法尼亚大道 1600 号的设计。
But it's more of a kind of tribute to the White House than a copy.
但这更像是对白宫的致敬，而不是复制品。
From the outside, it reminds you of the White House the way that Madonna resembles Ava Peron.
从外观上看，它会让你想起白宫，就像麦当娜和阿娃庇隆一样。
They're shooting for the same effect.
他们拍摄的目的是相同的。
There's a strong resemblance.
有很强的相似性。
But the copy just doesn't have the gravitas of the original.
但副本却没有原件的庄严。
Now, this is a fun room.
现在，这是一个有趣的房间。
Upstairs play room.
楼上的游戏室。
Painted bright red slashed with silver paint.
漆成鲜红色，并涂有银色油漆。
Ping pong tables, exercise equipment, massage table.
乒乓球台、健身器材、按摩床。
And again, this is, like, a lacquer red room.
再说一次，这就像一个漆红色的房间。
Actually, this is a carpet that lights up.
实际上，这是一块会发光的地毯。
It has lights in it.
里面有灯。
What?
什么？
Ann Riley This carpet lights up.
安·赖利 这张地毯亮了。
I don't know how to turn it on.
我不知道如何打开它。
But do you see all those little pinholes?
但你看到那些小针孔了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Ann Riley Those actually can be turned on.
安·赖利 这些实际上是可以打开的。
The owners of this White House reflect the times just as clearly as the occupants of that other White House back East do.
这座白宫的主人与东部其他白宫的主人一样清楚地反映了时代。
During the last century, they included one of the men who founded banks in California and financed the railroad's expansion through the West.
在上个世纪，其中包括在加利福尼亚州创办银行并为铁路向西部扩张提供资金的人之一。
And the owner of the shoe company that made Buster Browns.
还有生产 Buster Browns 的鞋业公司的老板。
In 1972, it was rumored that John Lennon and Yoko Ono would be moving in.
1972年，有传言约翰·列侬和小野洋子将搬进来。
As for the current owners, they made their money the way people do these days.
至于现在的所有者，他们按照人们现在的方式赚钱。
He comes from the world of international banking, she from Hollywood.
他来自国际银行界，她来自好莱坞。
She was the wife of a studio vice president and the wife of a plastic surgeon before this marriage.
婚前她是工作室副总裁的妻子，也是整形外科医生的妻子。
When I meet her, she descends a staircase telling a slightly off-color and actually very funny joke.
当我见到她时，她走下楼梯，讲了一个有点下流但实际上非常有趣的笑话。
Before an hour's up, she's told me why Jean Harlow used to put ice on her breasts, why there are nude calendar girl paintings of herself over the beds in the house, and some story that Jane Russell told her the other night at dinner.
一个小时前，她告诉我为什么简·哈洛常常在她的乳房上放冰块，为什么家里的床上挂着挂历女孩的裸体画，以及简·拉塞尔前几天晚餐时给她讲的一些故事。
I liked her.
我喜欢她。
You know the old song-- Cyndi Lauper-- "Girls Just Want to Have Fun." That's me.
你知道那首老歌——Cyndi Lauper——“女孩只是想玩得开心”。这就是我。
I think that if we can't enjoy our life-- and I tell my friends, I always have something.
我认为，如果我们不能享受生活——我告诉我的朋友们，我总是有一些东西。
I have a big calendar on my desk.
我的桌子上有一个大日历。
And I always have something that I can look forward to, even if I have to make that date.
我总是有一些可以期待的事情，即使我必须去约会。
If I look down and say, well, I think I'll plan on going to Las Vegas this month.
如果我低下头说，好吧，我想我这个月会计划去拉斯维加斯。
If I have to create something to make that month special, I do it.
如果我必须创造一些东西让那个月变得特别，我就会这么做。
The house itself is a mix of high-brow and low-brow-- incredibly elegant rooms with beautiful furniture and expensive paintings, and here and there, paintings of doe-eyed girls, picked up at sidewalk art sales.
这座房子本身就是高雅和低雅的混合体——极其优雅的房间，配有漂亮的家具和昂贵的画作，到处都是在路边艺术品拍卖会上买到的长着大眼睛的女孩的画作。
The little embroidered pillows that say things like, "Murder, yes.
绣花小枕头上写着这样的话：“谋杀，是的。
Divorce, never" And "Screw the golden years, there's a safari room." In short, it's hard to imagine Bill Clinton living here.
离婚，永远”和“去他的黄金岁月，有一个野生动物园。”简而言之，很难想象比尔·克林顿住在这里。
But it's a place that his mother-- Virginia Kelley-- would probably just love.
但他的母亲弗吉尼亚·凯利可能会喜欢这个地方。
It is impossible to imagine an American building a house today as a duplicate of the White House as a way to lure the president over.
不可能想象今天的美国人会建造一座复制白宫的房子来吸引总统。
People just do not view the presidency with the same respect as they did back in George Hearst's day.
人们不再像乔治·赫斯特时代那样尊重总统职位了。
Witness Rosemary's response when I ask her this question about her home purchase.
当我问罗斯玛丽有关她购房的问题时，请看看她的回答。
Was the fact that it was, in part, a replica of the White House part of what drew you to it?
它在某种程度上是白宫的复制品，这是否是吸引你来到这里的原因之一？
The asking price for this Western White House is $8.5 million.
这座西方白宫的要价是850万美元。
It has 27,000 square feet, 22 rooms.
它有27,000平方英尺，22个房间。
Coldwell Banker real estate agents recently put together an estimate of what the real White House would sell for if it were ever put on the open market.
Coldwell Banker 房地产经纪人最近对真正的白宫如果投放到公开市场上的售价进行了估算。
The real White House, by the way, has 43,000 square feet and 132 rooms.
顺便说一句，真正的白宫有 43,000 平方英尺和 132 个房间。
It sits on 18 acres of prime downtown real estate.
它坐落在市中心黄金地段，占地 18 英亩。
Estimate?
估计？
$64 million.
6400万美元。
Actually, to qualify for the mortgage, you'd have to be able to make monthly payments $600,000 a month.
实际上，要获得抵押贷款资格，您必须每月还款额达到 60 万美元。
$64 million.
6400万美元。
Of course, according to the FEC, candidates Clinton and Dole each spent far more than that for the privilege of just living in the place for four years.
当然，根据联邦选举委员会的说法，候选人克林顿和多尔为了在这个地方住了四年的特权而花费的钱远多于此。
Act Two, Television Man.
第二幕，电视人。
Throughout this election year, we've been bringing you the campaign diaries of Michael Lewis.
在整个选举年，我们一直为您带来迈克尔·刘易斯的竞选日记。
He's been publishing these in The New Republic .
他在《新共和》上发表了这些文章。
And as I've said many times in introducing him, they are among the most surprising and interesting campaign reporting that anyone has done this year.
正如我在介绍他时多次说过的那样，它们是今年最令人惊讶和有趣的竞选报道之一。
Michael Lewis has said in the past that one of the reasons for the dullness and mendacity in modern campaigns is that American politicians still have not adjusted to the presence of television cameras.
迈克尔·刘易斯过去曾表示，现代竞选活动中乏味和谎言的原因之一是美国政客仍未适应电视摄像机的存在。
He got a chance to see the effect of television cameras firsthand on the political process just last month when he momentarily left the unglamorous life of a print reporter for another higher calling.
就在上个月，他有机会亲眼目睹电视摄像机对政治进程的影响，当时他暂时离开了平面记者平淡的生活，转向另一个更高的使命。
October 1.
10 月 1 日。
The Dole campaign treats me so oddly when I arrive this morning for the trip to Cleveland that I find myself looking back over my shoulder to see if there's some other Michael they're talking to.
当我今天早上抵达克利夫兰旅行时，多尔竞选团队对我的态度很奇怪，我发现自己回头看看他们是否还有其他迈克尔正在交谈。
That I have a name is itself unusual.
我有名字本身就很不寻常。
Normally, I'm just checked off the cargo list as The New Republic i.e., another magazine writer who, together with his readership, can safely be ignored.
通常情况下，我只是作为《新共和》从货物清单中划掉，即另一位杂志作家，连同他的读者群，可以安全地被忽略。
But this morning, I am carrying my new Sony Digital Super SteadyShot Handycam DCR-VX1000 millimeter, a palmable grey box that crack technicians from ABC spent nearly an hour teaching me to use.
但今天早上，我带着我的新索尼数字超级稳定拍摄手持摄像机 DCR-VX1000 毫米，这是一个可手掌的灰色盒子，来自 ABC 的技术人员花了近一个小时教我使用。
It is festooned with various stickers that say ABC News.
它贴满了各种写着 ABC 新闻的贴纸。
Yesterday, I mentioned in passing to a Dole staffer that I might do some shooting for Nightline tomorrow, as if I were the sort of person who did shooting for Nightline all the time.
昨天，我向一位都乐工作人员提到，明天我可能会为《夜线》拍摄一些照片，就好像我是那种一直在为《夜线》拍摄的人一样。
Now, a Dole campaign worker named Charlie is standing over me like an old friend.
现在，一位名叫查理的多尔竞选工作人员像老朋友一样站在我身边。
"Hi, Michael," he says.
“嗨，迈克尔，”他说。
"Good to see you again.
“很高兴再次见到你。
You know, you're not allowed to film on the plane."
你知道，你不可以在飞机上拍摄。”
When I step onto the plane, a second Dole staffer tells me the same thing.
当我踏上飞机时，另一位都乐员工也告诉了我同样的事情。
As I take my seat across the coffee table from a radio lady, a third Dole worker stops by and stresses the point.
当我坐在一位电台女士对面的咖啡桌对面时，第三位都乐工作人员过来强调了这一点。
Apparently, the place where the campaign television journalist spends the vast majority of his time is considered outside the bounds of television journalism.
显然，竞选电视记者花费大部分时间的地方被认为不属于电视新闻的范围。
Before all these warnings, it had never occurred to me to film on the Dole plane.
在收到所有这些警告之前，我从未想过要在多尔飞机上拍摄。
Now it does.
现在确实如此。
Just before takeoff, I stand up and take my first shot.
起飞前，我站起来进行第一次拍摄。
A fat cameraman on his way to the toilet squeezes past a skinny stewardess, and I have him in my crosshairs.
一个胖摄影师在去厕所的路上挤过一个瘦骨嶙峋的空姐，我的瞄准镜就是他。
"You're not supposed to do that!" a voice shrieks out at me.
“你不应该这样做！”一个声音对我尖叫。
It's the radio lady playing narc.
这是扮演缉毒警的电台女士。
Charlie appears beside my seat to remind me of "the rule." He does a nice job of not being upset.
查理出现在我的座位旁边，提醒我“规则”。他做得很好，没有感到不安。
The day unfolds uneventfully-- Dole gives a speech in a gym-- except for my peculiar new relationship with the Dole campaign staff.
这一天过得很平静——多尔在健身房发表演讲——除了我与多尔竞选工作人员之间奇特的新关系。
Normally, I have to set off a flare to get their attention.
通常，我必须引爆照明弹才能引起他们的注意。
Today, Charlie takes the seat beside me on the bus and for the rest of the day never seems to be very far away.
今天，查理在公交车上坐在我旁边，在这一天剩下的时间里，查理似乎从未离我很远。
Whatever they think I might do, I don't.
无论他们认为我会做什么，我都不会。
By the time the rally starts, I have busted the sound mechanism, lost the earplugs, and run out of batteries.
当集会开始时，我已经损坏了发声装置，丢了耳塞，电池也用完了。
I put the camera to one side.
我把相机放在一侧。
Charlie vanishes.
查理消失了。
But then we head back to the plane and a fresh battery, which brings us to the episode of the shrimp.
但随后我们带着一块新电池回到飞机上，这让我们看到了虾的情节。
Once we'd settled into our seats, I set about trying to fix all the parts of the camera I'd busted.
我们一坐定，我就开始尝试修理我损坏的相机的所有部件。
In order not to offend the Dole people, I decide to test the thing on what I figure is a declassified object-- a large plate of cold, mottled shrimp that has been laid on the table between me and a pair of radio reporters.
为了不冒犯都乐人，我决定在一个我认为是解密的物体上测试这个东西——一大盘冷的、斑驳的虾，放在我和两个电台记者之间的桌子上。
I hunker right over the little buggers so that the ABC technicians will see I have absorbed what they've taught me about not giving in to the temptation of zoom.
我蹲在这些小虫子旁边，这样 ABC 技术人员就会看到我已经吸收了他们教给我的关于不要屈服于变焦诱惑的知识。
But the moment I'm in place, the radio woman shrieks out to the Dole staff and makes to cover the shrimp with a sheet of paper.
但当我就位时，电台女广播员向多尔工作人员尖叫，并用一张纸盖住虾。
"It's OK," I say gently.
“没关系，”我轻轻地说。
"I'm just seeing if this thing still works." I keep shooting for a good five seconds.
“我只是看看这东西是否还有效。”我连续拍摄了整整五秒钟。
Then I put the camera away.
然后我就把相机收了起来。
Suddenly, a Dole lady is in my face, teeth gritted, breath blowing.
突然，一位都乐女士出现在我面前，她咬紧牙关，气喘吁吁。
"We told you seven times not to film on the plane," she shouts.
“我们已经告诉过你七次了，不要在飞机上拍摄，”她喊道。
"You don't know how serious this is."
“你不知道事情有多严重。”
"But it was just the shrimp," I begin to say before she cuts me off.
“但那只是虾，”我开始说道，然后她打断了我的话。
"We told you." I want to protest that it's not my fault her guy is 20 points down the polls, and she's on the fast track to not being the next Dee Dee Myers.
“我们告诉过你了。”我想抗议的是，这不是我的错，她的家伙在民意调查中落后了 20 个百分点，而她很快就不会成为下一个迪迪迈尔斯。
It's not worth the trouble.
不值得这么麻烦。
I return to the New York Times where Dole's campaign manager, Scott Reed, is quoted as saying that some major event is about to transform public opinion.
我回到《纽约时报》，其中引用了多尔竞选经理斯科特·里德的话说，一些重大事件即将改变公众舆论。
"We deserve a break, and we're going to have one," he explains.
“我们应该休息一下，我们将会休息一下，”他解释道。
Asked to be more specific, he said, "Something.
当被问及更具体的情况时，他说：“有些事情。
World affairs." It's hard to see how the shrimp fit into this scenario.
世界大事。”很难看出虾如何适应这种情况。
October 6.
10 月 6 日。
On the streets outside the debate hall in Hartford, the Super SteadyShot wreaks havoc.
在哈特福德辩论厅外的街道上，超级稳定镜头造成了严重破坏。
Many hundreds of previously listless protesters leap into action at the sight of it.
数百名先前无精打采的抗议者一看到它就立即采取行动。
"Let's have some action for ABC," I shout.
“让我们为 ABC 采取一些行动吧，”我喊道。
And the effect is distinctly more dramatic than if I'd said, "Let's have some action for The New Republic ."
其效果显然比我说“让我们为新共和国采取一些行动”更加引人注目。
They rise as one and proclaim their causes.
他们团结一致并宣布自己的事业。
One moment, they are an undifferentiated jumble of people shivering in the cold.
有一瞬间，他们变成了一群在寒冷中瑟瑟发抖的毫无区别的人。
The next, they are the ardent supporters of Nader and Perot, pro-life and anti-vivisection, anti-deficit and pro-welfare.
其次，他们是纳德和佩罗的热心支持者，反堕胎和反活体解剖，反赤字和支持福利。
Of course, the SteadyShot is not permitted inside the Bushnell Theatre.
当然，布什内尔剧院内不允许使用 SteadyShot。
It is too powerful a weapon to be permitted close to the candidates.
这是一种威力太强大的武器，不允许靠近候选人。
So after a brief altercation with a security guard, I retire to Spin Alley.
因此，在与保安发生短暂争执后，我回到旋转巷。
Spin Alley is what the debate organizers have renamed the Hartford Civic Center until a few journalists start pointing out that only a few years ago, political hacks actually denied that they "spun" at all.
辩论组织者将哈特福德市政中心重新命名为“旋转巷”，直到一些记者开始指出，就在几年前，政治黑客实际上否认他们“旋转”过。
The signs saying Spin Alley are then ripped down, which, when you think about it, is itself a form of spin.
然后，写着“旋转巷”的标志被撕掉，当你仔细想想，这本身就是一种旋转形式。
At any rate, the Super SteadyShot penetrates Spin Alley, emanating its extraordinary forcefield.
无论如何，超级稳定射击穿透旋转巷，散发出非凡的力场。
When she enters the frame, the comely Maureen Dowd dives behind her notepad, and who can blame her?
当她进入画面时，美丽的莫琳·多德（Maureen Dowd）潜入记事本后面，谁能责怪她呢？
Once you're in the camera's eye, you no longer have control of your soul.
一旦你进入镜头，你就不再能控制自己的灵魂。
Truly, it is astonishing the way all of the important people cave in to the camera.
确实，所有重要人物都屈服于镜头的方式令人惊讶。
I point it at White House Spokesman Mike McCurry, then at Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge, then at Labor Secretary Robert Reich.
我把矛头指向白宫发言人迈克·麦凯里(Mike McCurry)，然后是宾夕法尼亚州州长汤姆·里奇(Tom Ridge)，然后是劳工部长罗伯特·赖克(Robert Reich)。
They answer questions that they might ignore if it were just me and mine eye.
他们回答了如果只有我和我的眼睛他们可能会忽略的问题。
How do you feel as you stand there spinning me?
当你站在那里旋转我时感觉如何？
If you truly felt that your candidate had lost, would you say as much?
如果你真的觉得你的候选人输了，你会这么说吗？
They are not talking to me, of course, but to some notional audience-- the American people.
当然，他们不是在对我说话，而是在对一些想象中的观众——美国人民说话。
And whatever they might be thinking, they treat the camera with deference.
无论他们在想什么，他们都会尊重镜头。
In the same way that ordinary people feel obliged to smile when they have their picture taken-- even when they are unhappy-- important people feel pressure to answer sincerely even when they are insincere.
就像普通人在拍照时觉得有必要微笑一样——即使他们不开心——重要的人也会感到有压力去真诚地回答，即使他们不真诚。
I miss the debate entirely.
我完全怀念这场辩论。
I'm too busy taking pictures of people assessing the debate, which they do from the moment it starts.
我正忙着给人们评估辩论的照片，他们从辩论开始的那一刻起就这么做了。
No matter.
不管。
I'm able to track its effect between the lines of Scott Reed's quotes.
我能够在斯科特·里德的引言中追踪其效果。
Tomorrow in the New York Times , Reed will revise his mental picture of the campaign.
明天，里德将在《纽约时报》上修改他对竞选活动的想象。
"This is going to be a steady building process for the next 30 days," he will say.
“这将是未来 30 天内稳定的建设过程，”他表示。
"There's not going to be an overnight shift." All of a sudden, it's looking as if every little shrimp might matter.
“不会有夜班。”突然之间，似乎每只小虾都变得很重要。
Michael Lewis' campaign diaries will be collected in a book called Losers: Real Men Don't Become President Anymore.
迈克尔·刘易斯的竞选日记将收录在一本名为《失败者：真正的男人不再成为总统》的书中。
Stay with us, now.
现在就留在我们身边吧。
We will have another set of campaign diaries from Michael Lewis later in the program.
稍后我们将在节目中提供迈克尔·刘易斯的另一套竞选日记。
This section of our program on television continues.
我们电视节目的这一部分仍在继续。
We have this argument about TV and politics from Henry Jenkins, director of film and media studies at MIT.
我们从麻省理工学院电影和媒体研究主任亨利·詹金斯那里得到了关于电视和政治的争论。
I think what we're dealing with is a kind of crucial transitional moment in American politics.
我认为我们正在面临美国政治的一个关键过渡时刻。
And it's actually change that's occurred over the last couple of elections from an era where network television dominated the political campaign toward a point where cable television is dominating the campaign and looking toward a point when cyberspace or the online communities will dominate.
实际上，过去几次选举中发生了变化，从网络电视主导政治竞选的时代，转向有线电视主导竞选的时代，再到网络空间或在线社区将主导的时代。
Each of those medium have different properties which candidates have to respond to and shape their campaigns around.
每一种媒介都有不同的属性，候选人必须对此做出回应并围绕这些属性制定他们的竞选活动。
So if we go back eight years to Bush versus Dukakis, Bush was a paramount politician of an era of network television.
因此，如果我们回顾八年前布什与杜卡基斯的对决，布什是网络电视时代最重要的政治家。
Network is based on a broadcast model.
网络基于广播模型。
That is, it speaks the same message to multiple publics.
也就是说，它向多个公众传达相同的信息。
There's not a lot of targeting to regional-specific audiences or narrow demographic groups.
没有太多针对特定区域受众或狭窄人口群体的内容。
The strategy that Bush adapted in that campaign is what he called "Story of the Day." "Story of the Day" is you pick a topic that you want to hit your opponent on especially, and you find ways to dramatize that topic through images, through your personal appearances, through the other people who are tied to the campaign who are giving talking points.
布什在那场竞选中采取的策略被他称为“今日故事”。 “每日故事”是你选择一个你想特别打击对手的话题，然后你找到方法通过图像、通过你的个人形象、通过与竞选活动相关的其他提供谈话要点的人来戏剧化这个话题。
And you want one unified message which carries the day.
您想要一个统一的信息来主导这一天。
Classic example is Bush goes to Boston Harbor to attack to Dukakis on his environmental record.
典型的例子是布什前往波士顿港攻击杜卡基斯的环境记录。
All three major news networks gave that top coverage that evening.
当天晚上，三大新闻网络都进行了重点报道。
And what you find is that news cameras use the same soundbites by Bush, they use the same images, the cameras actually do Bush's dirty work by focusing directly on the sewage waste in the Boston Harbor and dramatizing his issues.
你会发现新闻摄像机使用与布什相同的原声片段，他们使用相同的图像，摄像机实际上通过直接聚焦于波士顿港的污水废物并戏剧化他的问题来完成布什的肮脏工作。
And Dukakis' response is simply him talking to the camera.
杜卡基斯的反应只是他对着镜头说话。
So that's the politics of the network era.
这就是网络时代的政治。
Four years pass, and the way America watches television changes fairly drastically over that period of time.
四年过去了，美国人观看电视的方式在这段时间发生了相当大的变化。
More and more people are getting their news and information from cable.
越来越多的人通过有线电视获取新闻和信息。
There's a wider array of options.
有更广泛的选择。
And cable is embracing this narrowcasting notion of specific appeals to specific demographic groups, of targeted messages, of a focused public.
有线电视正在接受这种针对特定人口群体、有针对性的信息和重点公众的特定吸引力的窄播概念。
And Clinton recognizes that there are all kinds of opportunities in cable that were not there in the network broadcast paradigm.
克林顿认识到，有线电视领域存在着网络广播范式所没有的各种机会。
So Clinton uses cable to completely blindside Bush.
所以克林顿利用电报完全出乎布什的意料。
He goes on MTV.
他上MTV。
He goes on Arsenio Hall.
他去了阿森尼奥大厅。
He goes on Larry King.
他继续拉里·金。
He goes on Nashville Network.
他上纳什维尔网络。
He's courting a number of different publics with different messages that are tailored very intensely to the interest of that particular group.
他用不同的信息来吸引许多不同的公众，这些信息是专门针对特定群体的利益量身定制的。
What appears on network TV is simply an image of that appearance-- Clinton answering questions about his underwear on MTV or Clinton playing the saxophone on Arsenio Hall, often images that trivialize those appearances.
网络电视上出现的只是那种外表的图像——克林顿在 MTV 上回答有关他内衣的问题，或者克林顿在阿森尼奥大厅吹萨克斯管，这些图像常常使这些外表变得无足轻重。
But for the constituencies that Clinton is speaking to, such as the MTV audience, he's given an enormous amount of space to frame his issues and his terms to that specific voting block.
但对于克林顿正在讲话的选民，例如 MTV 观众，他给予了巨大的空间来阐述他的问题以及他对特定投票群体的条款。
So what we get is a diffused message from Clinton during that campaign, which motivates voters.
因此，我们得到的是克林顿在竞选期间发出的广泛信息，这激励了选民。
So the largest voter participation of 18- to 27-year-olds of any election in recent memory-- since the 18-year-olds got the right to vote, in fact-- motivated by Clinton's appearance on MTV.
因此，在克林顿出现在 MTV 的推动下，这是近年来 18 至 27 岁选民参与选举最多的一次——事实上，自从 18 岁的年轻人获得了投票权以来。
And Rock the Vote was really pivotal in bringing out that election.
摇滚投票对于这次选举的结果确实至关重要。
And so what have you seen this year in the '96 campaign?
那么您在今年 96 年的竞选活动中看到了什么？
How has this developed this year?
今年的发展情况如何？
Well, Clinton, I think, learned a brutalizing message, which is that you run on cable right now but you have to govern on network TV.
嗯，我认为克林顿学到了一个残酷的信息，那就是你现在在有线电视上运行，但你必须在网络电视上进行治理。
That is, all those diffused messages to multiple publics, which developed intense voter participation four years ago, became scattershot, confused, decentered unfocused when he tried to govern because he was still being evaluated on those three major networks on the evening news.
也就是说，所有这些分散到多个公众的信息，四年前形成了强烈的选民参与，当他试图执政时，这些信息变得散乱、混乱、分散、不集中，因为晚间新闻仍在三大网络上对他进行评估。
And in that space, Clinton's administration seemed completely incompetent.
在这个领域，克林顿政府似乎完全无能。
So Clinton had to retool himself for the evening news.
因此，克林顿必须为晚间新闻重新调整自己。
The same message was learned by Newt Gingrich, who is also a product of cable television.
纽特·金里奇（Newt Gingrich）也获悉了同样的信息，他也是有线电视产品。
And I like to call Gingrich and Clinton the "not ready for prime time players" because they were, in fact, such products of cable that they weren't ready for prime time network news.
我喜欢称金里奇和克林顿为“没有为黄金时段做好准备的球员”，因为事实上，他们是有线电视的产物，他们还没有准备好接受黄金时段的网络新闻。
Gingrich's career begins on C-SPAN.
Gingrich 的职业生涯始于 C-SPAN。
And what Gingrich did as a young representative from a small district in Georgia was realize there was a slot in the day in the early evening hours which historically had been used by representatives to stand up in an empty house and deliver messages which went directly to Congressional Record and were sent out to constituents back home.
作为来自佐治亚州一个小选区的年轻代表，金里奇所做的就是意识到一天中傍晚时分有一个时段，历史上代表们利用这个时段在空荡荡的房子里站起来传递信息，这些信息直接进入国会记录并发送给家乡的选民。
Gingrich recognized that that was free air time on C-SPAN every evening in the dinner hour.
金里奇意识到那是 C-SPAN 每天晚上晚餐时间的免费广播时间。
He went on every night at the same time, the same focused speech on every issue of the day, and said flamboyant things that had a very intense appeal to conservative Americans.
他每天晚上在同一时间发表同样的演讲，针对当天的每个问题发表同样的重点演讲，并发表对保守的美国人具有强烈吸引力的华丽言论。
He graduated from that to The Family Network and to GOP TV, which are even more focused on the conservative constituencies.
他从那里毕业后加入了家庭网络和共和党电视台，这些节目更关注保守派选民。
And he was able to spring from free air time on C-SPAN to a national political constituency.
他还能够从 C-SPAN 的免费广播中一跃成为全国政治选区。
The minute he reaches power, though, he's also being judged by the evening news where those red meat issues that he focused, that got attention on C-SPAN, suddenly seem too intense or too conservative or too reactionary and extreme for middle America.
然而，一旦他掌权，他就会受到晚间新闻的评判，那些他所关注的红肉问题，引起了 C-SPAN 的关注，对于美国中产阶级来说，突然显得太激烈、太保守、太反动和极端。
And so he also failed to be able to govern on network television.
所以他也无法治理网络电视。
So we're seeing is that politicians are being pulled back and forth between the network paradigm of a general message to a general audience and the cable space which opens up a lot of chances for challengers to emerge and to begin to exploit the medium to get messages out and motivate very intensely committed groups of voters.
因此，我们看到政客们在向普通受众传递一般信息的网络范式和有线电视空间之间来回拉动，这为挑战者的出现提供了很多机会，并开始利用媒体传播信息并激励非常忠诚的选民群体。
Have you seen either candidate actually use the cable strategy in this election?
您是否见过任何一位候选人在这次选举中真正使用了有线电视策略？
I think Clinton still uses it, but I don't think either of them are using it as effectively as Clinton did four years ago.
我认为克林顿仍在使用它，但我认为他们中的任何一个都没有像克林顿四年前那样有效地使用它。
I think they are frightened by it.
我认为他们对此感到害怕。
Dole is fairly inept at every medium I can think of.
多尔对我能想到的每一种媒介都相当无能。
There's not a single medium one could say Bob Dole uses well.
没有一种媒介可以说是鲍勃·多尔用得好的。
We've seen him completely misunderstand the nature of this cable politics in the last debate, where he's used to talking on network news, where he talks over the interviewer and delivers his message no matter what.
在上一次辩论中，我们看到他完全误解了这种有线电视政治的本质，他习惯于在网络新闻上谈论，他在采访中谈论并无论如何传达他的信息。
That very first question in the debate when the school teacher asked him about children's innocence and their hopes for the future, and he used it in cynically as a platform to attack Bill Clinton on his ethics issue.
这是辩论中的第一个问题，当时学校老师问他关于孩子们的纯真和他们对未来的希望，他愤世嫉俗地用它作为攻击比尔·克林顿道德问题的平台。
One saw an example where he didn't understand the embodiment of those issues in specific people and specific constituencies and how it matters who you're speaking to and where you're speaking in cable.
有人看到了一个例子，他不明白这些问题在特定人群和特定选区的具体体现，以及你在有线电视中与谁交谈以及在哪里交谈有多么重要。
I asked Henry Jenkins if he wasn't overstating his thesis a little, especially when it came to Bill Clinton.
我问亨利·詹金斯，他是否夸大了自己的论点，尤其是在谈到比尔·克林顿时。
I wondered if Bill Clinton didn't know more about handling the network news when he took office than Jenkins gives him credit for.
我想知道比尔·克林顿上任后是否对处理网络新闻的了解并不比詹金斯所认为的更多。
After all, in 1992, Bill Clinton made four or five cable appearances during the campaign.
毕竟，1992 年，比尔·克林顿 (Bill Clinton) 在竞选期间曾四五次在电视上露面。
But he wasn't just running on cable.
但他不仅仅在有线电视上跑步。
Every day of the campaign, there were staged events for the network news and there was the Clinton message of the day.
竞选活动的每一天，都会有网络新闻的上演活动，还有当天的克林顿致辞。
But those are moments that are probably the most memorable moments in the campaign.
但这些时刻可能是竞选中最令人难忘的时刻。
They are moments they were replayed over and over on those networks.
这些时刻在这些网络上一遍又一遍地重播。
They are moments that I think shaped public perceptions of these candidates in a significant way.
我认为这些时刻极大地影响了公众对这些候选人的看法。
And I think our understanding of Clinton was defined more through those moments than through the evening news.
我认为我们对克林顿的理解更多地是通过那些时刻而不是通过晚间新闻来定义的。
So their impact is much greater than the sheer number of events.
因此，它们的影响远大于事件的绝对数量。
Henry Jenkins is director of film and media studies at MIT and author of two books.
亨利·詹金斯是麻省理工学院电影和媒体研究主任，也是两本书的作者。
The latest is called Science Fiction Adventures: Watching Star Trek and Doctor Who .
最新的名为《科幻冒险：观看星际迷航》和《神秘博士》。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme and invite a wide range of writers and performers and documentary producers to contribute stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，并邀请众多作家、表演者和纪录片制片人就该主题贡献故事。
Today's theme, of course, Post-Election Politics.
今天的主题当然是选举后政治。
We're at Act Three of our program, Losers.
我们正在进行节目《失败者》的第三幕。
In this act, we have a story of an unsuccessful presidential candidate, and this story of a struggling political movement.
在这一幕中，我们讲述了一个失败的总统候选人的故事，以及一场挣扎的政治运动的故事。
Hey, Pedro.
嘿，佩德罗。
Go back to Mexico, stop taking our jobs, and stop looking at my daughter!
滚回墨西哥吧，别再抢我们的工作，别再看我女儿了！
Immigrants, are you tired of being pushed around in America?
移民们，你们厌倦了在美国被摆布吗？
Well, don't sit on your serape.
好吧，别坐在你的纱布上。
Do something about it.
做点什么吧。
Join the conservative political action group HALTO-- Hispanics Against Liberal Takeover.
加入保守派政治行动团体 HALTO——西班牙裔反对自由党接管。
HALTO was formed by Mexicali karaoke lounge sensation Daniel D.
HALTO 由墨西卡利卡拉 OK 酒廊明星 Daniel D. 创立。
Portado as a way to spread California Governor Pete Wilson's message of self-deportation to a national audience.
Portado 是向全国受众传播加州州长皮特·威尔逊自我驱逐信息的一种方式。
I am the chairman of HALTO, Daniel D.
我是 HALTO 的董事长 Daniel D.
Portado.
波塔多。
What is self-deportation, you ask?
你问什么是自我驱逐？
Think of it as a permanent vacation.
将其视为永久假期。
Just imagine, in one easy step, you can avoid all this crazy anti-immigrant harassment in America.
想象一下，只需一个简单的步骤，您就可以避免美国所有这些疯狂的反移民骚扰。
How?
如何？
Self-deportation.
自我驱逐出境。
Just imagine yourself on the beach, in Mazatlan, relaxed, tension-free.
想象一下您自己在马萨特兰的海滩上，放松、无紧张。
Immigrants, join HALTO today and see your homeland tomorrow.
移民们，今天加入HALTO，明天看看你的祖国。
Self-deportation is a trademark of Hispanics Against Liberal Takeover.
自我驱逐出境是西班牙裔反对自由党接管的商标。
Subject agrees to voluntarily repatriate to native land or Mexico, whichever is nearest.
对象同意自愿遣返祖国或墨西哥，以距离最近的为准。
All self-deportations are final.
所有自我驱逐都是最终决定。
No exchanges or refunds.
不予换货或退款。
Tickets are one way only.
门票只是一种方式。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ira Glass Well, listeners to our program in California may be familiar with this advertisement and with the group Hispanics Against Liberal Takeover.
[西班牙语] Ira Glass 嗯，在加利福尼亚州收听我们节目的听众可能熟悉这则广告以及西班牙裔反对自由党收购组织。
They are a militant self-deportation movement encouraging all minorities to leave the United States.
他们是一场激进的自我驱逐运动，鼓励所有少数族裔离开美国。
That's right, all minorities.
没错，都是少数民族。
Its founder, Daniel D.
其创始人丹尼尔·D.
Portado, has appeared on Spanish-language TV.
波塔多（Portado）出现在西班牙语电视上。
I actually saw a video of one of these appearances where basically, the entire Latino studio audience yelled at him nonstop for his entire appearance.
事实上，我看过其中一场演出的视频，基本上，整个拉丁裔演播室的观众在他的整个演出过程中不停地对他大喊大叫。
Mr. Portado says that he started his movement when he read newspaper accounts about Mexican-Americans who were in favor of California's Proposition 187.
波塔多先生说，当他读到报纸上关于支持加州 187 号提案的墨西哥裔美国人的报道时，他开始了自己的运动。
Prop 187 was the proposition that cut off social services to illegal immigrants.
第 187 号提案是切断向非法移民提供社会服务的提案。
He thought these Mexican-Americans-- who were in favor of cutting off those services-- had the right idea but just did not go far enough.
他认为这些支持切断这些服务的墨西哥裔美国人的想法是正确的，但做得还不够。
They just didn't take it to its logical conclusion, and he felt that self-deportation was the only real solution.
他们只是没有得出合乎逻辑的结论，他觉得自我驱逐是唯一真正的解决办法。
We feel that the immigrants are taking too many jobs, are bringing down the quality of life.
我们认为移民抢走了太多的工作，降低了生活质量。
They're not allowing our young American teenagers the character-building experiences of picking fruit and cleaning hotel beds.
他们不允许我们年轻的美国青少年获得采摘水果和清洁酒店床铺的品格培养经历。
So what's your evaluation of this week's election results?
那么您对本周的选举结果有何评价？
Were the election results in California good or bad for your self-deportation movement?
加州的选举结果对你的自我驱逐运动是好是坏？
Oh, well, luckily, Pete Wilson is still with us.
哦，幸运的是，皮特·威尔逊还和我们在一起。
Of course, I was the chairman, originally, of Hispanics for Wilson, the pro-187 group.
当然，我最初是支持 187 群体的威尔逊西班牙裔主席。
Proposition 187 was the California proposition that suggested-- and passed-- saying that illegal immigrants could not receive any social services.
187 号提案是加利福尼亚州的一项提案，该提案提出并通过了非法移民不能获得任何社会服务的规定。
Right, right.
对，对。
And we are also sponsoring for the next election our own initiative, the "Spic and Span Initiative," which stands for Stop Promoting Illegal Culture and Spanish.
我们还为下一次选举赞助我们自己的倡议，即“Spic and Span Initiative”，该倡议代表“停止推广非法文化和西班牙语”。
Basically, we're trying to prohibit any sort of activity which might attract illegals to this country, such as dancing the Macarena, that would now be punishable by four Saturdays of freeway cleanup and a $250 fine.
基本上，我们正在努力禁止任何可能吸引非法移民来到这个国家的活动，例如跳 Macarena 舞，现在将被处以四个星期六的高速公路清理工作和 250 美元的罚款。
Pretty steep.
相当陡峭。
Daniel D.
丹尼尔·D.
Portado And also saying certain words-- or any word-- in Spanish, such as Los Angeles, California, San Diego--
Portado 还用西班牙语说某些单词——或任何单词，例如洛杉矶、加利福尼亚、圣地亚哥——
Burrito.
墨西哥卷饼。
Daniel D.
丹尼尔·D.
Portado Burrito, yes.
波塔多玉米煎饼，是的。
And churrito.
还有西班牙辣酱。
You know, all these traditional-- things like Linda Ronstadt records will now be banned.
你知道，所有这些传统的——比如琳达·朗斯塔特的唱片现在都将被禁止。
Those ones where she sings the Mexican songs?
那些她唱墨西哥歌曲的地方？
Yes, the ones that she doesn't understand what she's singing.
是的，就是那些她听不懂自己在唱什么的人。
But it's very harmful.
但这是非常有害的。
And it's like a yodel out to the immigrants.
这就像对移民唱的约德尔歌。
It's saying, "Are you out there?
它说：“你在外面吗？
Is there anyone out there?
外面有人吗？
Would you like to come to America?" That's what, basically, Linda Ronstadt is saying.
你想来美国吗？”基本上，这就是琳达·朗斯塔特所说的。
When she sings a Spanish-language song, you mean she is pulling people across the border with the power of her voice?
当她唱一首西班牙语歌曲时，你的意思是她正在用她的声音的力量拉着人们跨越国界？
Yes, it is a major conspiracy.
是的，这是一个重大阴谋。
You did not know.
你不知道。
Governor Wilson has discovered that there is a major conspiracy to get all sorts of Indios from remote villages to come over.
威尔逊州长发现，有一个重大阴谋，目的是让偏远村庄的各种印第安人过来。
I mean, when Clinton says it takes a village, he's talking about importing a whole village from Michoacan.
我的意思是，当克林顿说需要一个村庄时，他指的是从米却肯州进口整个村庄。
Don't you know that?
你不知道吗？
[LAUGHS] Daniel D.
[笑]丹尼尔·D.
Portado Also, we have discovered, with the help of Governor Wilson, that the Macarena is actually a very sinister mind control device.
波塔多 此外，在威尔逊州长的帮助下，我们发现玛卡雷纳实际上是一个非常险恶的精神控制装置。
And it is part of a conspiracy to control the white electorate's feeble mind.
这是控制白人选民脆弱思想的阴谋的一部分。
What do you mean?
你是什么意思？
How do you figure?
你怎么看？
What is it doing to the white electorate?
它对白人选民做了什么？
Well, we actually have a translation here by our researchers that we can read for you.
好吧，我们实际上有研究人员的翻译，我们可以为您阅读。
All right, sure.
好吧，当然。
These are the words to the Macarena?
这些是对Macarena说的话？
So my bodyguard, Rudy Rico, will do the translation in English and I will read the original lyrics in the soon-to-be-forbidden Spanish tongue.
因此，我的保镖鲁迪·里科（Rudy Rico）将进行英语翻译，而我将用即将被禁止的西班牙语阅读原始歌词。
So here we go.
那么我们开始吧。
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Rudy Rico Now it's time to pick the fruit and make me rich.
[说西班牙语] Rudy Rico 现在是时候摘水果让我致富了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Rudy Rico Give me the keys to your Volvo, gringo.
[西班牙语] 鲁迪·里科 给我你的沃尔沃钥匙，外国佬。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Rudy Rico Hey, stupid gringo.
[说西班牙语]鲁迪·里科嘿，愚蠢的外国佬。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Rudy Rico See how foolish you look?
[说西班牙语]鲁迪·里科（Rudy Rico）看看你看起来有多傻？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Rudy Rico When you twist and dance to my mind control music.
[说西班牙语] Rudy Rico 当你随着我的精神控制音乐扭动并跳舞时。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Rudy Rico Screw the police.
[西班牙语]鲁迪·里科去他妈的警察。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Rudy Rico Now go cook some food for my friends.
[说西班牙语] Rudy Rico 现在去为我的朋友们做饭。
Stupid gringo, stupid gringo, stupid gringo.
愚蠢的外国佬，愚蠢的外国佬，愚蠢的外国佬。
So as you can see, this is a very sinister device.
正如你所看到的，这是一个非常险恶的装置。
Let's go to other election results here.
让我们看看这里的其他选举结果。
In California this week, voters voted on something called the California Civil Rights Initiative-- Proposition 209-- which was essentially a proposition to end quotas, set asides, and contracts.
本周在加州，选民对加州民权倡议（209 号提案）进行了投票，该提案本质上是一项终止配额、预留和合同的提案。
Basically, it was an anti-affirmative action measure.
基本上，这是一项反平权行动措施。
The fact that Californians voted for this anti-affirmative action measure this week, do you view that as being a positive thing for your movement?
事实上，加州人本周投票支持了这项反平权行动措施，您认为这对您的运动来说是一件积极的事情吗？
Oh yes, I think it will allow these young Latinos and black youth to go back to their roots and traditions of picking fruit and parking cars in Hollywood.
哦，是的，我认为这将使这些年轻的拉丁裔和黑人青年回到他们在好莱坞采摘水果和停车的根源和传统。
I think it's a very positive development for them.
我认为这对他们来说是一个非常积极的发展。
They need character building too.
他们也需要品格建设。
And if we can't deport them, well, we should employ them.
如果我们不能驱逐他们，那么我们就应该雇用他们。
Daniel D.
丹尼尔·D.
Portado, if you actually believe in deportation, what are you, yourself, still doing in California?
波塔多，如果你真的相信驱逐出境，那么你自己还在加州做什么？
Well, I am here to help everyone get out.
好吧，我是来帮助大家出去的。
I hope to look forward to the day where I will stand at the border and say, will the last Mexican out of California please turn out the lights?
我希望有一天我会站在边境说，请最后一个离开加州的墨西哥人关灯吗？
That will be me.
那就是我。
Let me ask you to just look ahead past this election that we just had towards the future.
让我请你们展望一下我们刚刚举行的这次选举，展望未来。
What is next for the self-deportation movement and for HALTO, for Hispanics Against Liberal Takeover?
自我驱逐运动、HALTO、西班牙裔反对自由党接管运动的下一步是什么？
Let me say this here first for you, Mr. Ira Glass, that I will now announce my candidacy for the California senate seat in 1998.
Ira Glass 先生，首先让我在此向您宣布，我现在将宣布竞选 1998 年加利福尼亚州参议员席位。
You have a slogan yet for that campaign?
您为该活动制定了口号吗？
Yes, we do have a slogan for that.
是的，我们确实有一个口号。
The campaign is, "three Macarenas and you're out."
该活动的主题是“三个Macarena，你就出局了”。
[LAUGHS] Now, I understand that you have brought in a song that you want to perform for us.
[笑]现在，我知道你带来了一首想要为我们表演的歌曲。
Yes, this is an old chestnut sung to the tune of "New York, New York." I like to call it "Pedro, Pedro."
是的，这是一个老栗子，唱的是“纽约，纽约”的曲调。我喜欢叫它“佩德罗，佩德罗”。
"Pedro, Pedro." And you're doing this, I understand, karaoke-style, out there.
“佩德罗，佩德罗。”我明白，你正在这样做，卡拉 OK 风格，在那里。
[SINGING] Start spreading the news.
[唱歌]开始传播消息。
You're leaving today.
你今天就要离开。
You're going back to Mexico Pedro, Pedro.
你要回墨西哥了 佩德罗，佩德罗。
Start packing your bags, your Chevrolet too.
开始收拾行李，还有你的雪佛兰。
You're going back to Mexico Pedro, Pedro.
你要回墨西哥了 佩德罗，佩德罗。
You little welfare monkey, take your cousin junkie and pack your trunkie and go.
你这个福利小猴子，带上你的瘾君子表弟，收拾好行李箱走吧。
You're going away--
你要走了——
All across the country, losing politicians are licking their wounds and planning for tomorrow.
全国各地，失败的政客们都在舔舐伤口，为明天做计划。
And one presidential contender who did not win this year's general election is Joan Jett Black.
琼·杰特·布莱克（Joan Jett Black）是一位未能赢得今年大选的总统候选人。
Joan Jett Black first ran for mayor of Chicago in 1990 and this year, ran for president in drag.
琼·杰特·布莱克 (Joan Jett Black) 于 1990 年首次竞选芝加哥市长，今年则变装竞选总统。
In a tasteful Chanel suit, Joan Jett Black gave speeches, made appearances, and lost.
琼·杰特·布莱克 (Joan Jett Black) 身穿高雅的香奈儿 (Chanel) 套装发表演讲、露面，然后失落。
But she has not conceded despite President Clinton's overwhelming showing at the polls and vows she will fight on.
但尽管克林顿总统在民意调查中取得压倒性优势，并誓言她将继续战斗，但她并没有让步。
There's a couple things.
有几件事。
I'm still speaking.
我还在说话。
I've got a couple university things to go do in the near future.
在不久的将来我有几件大学的事情要做。
And I'm kind of like a community spokesmodel out here in San Francisco.
我有点像旧金山的社区代言人。
And then I've also thought of starting the QRA-- the Queer Rifle Association.
然后我还考虑成立 QRA——酷儿步枪协会。
I didn't realize your feelings about the Second Amendment were so strong.
我没有意识到你对第二修正案的感情如此强烈。
Why would that be necessary?
为什么有必要这样做？
Well, you know, because we can't get married, we barely can get housing, we barely can get jobs, so--
嗯，你知道，因为我们无法结婚，我们几乎找不到住房，我们几乎找不到工作，所以——
At least we can buy a gun?
至少我们可以买把枪吧？
Joan Jett Black We'll just start shooting.
琼·杰特·布莱克（Joan Jett Black）：我们刚刚开始拍摄。
Yes.
是的。
But I'm not saying shooting bullets.
但我并不是说射击子弹。
I mean, we could shoot water or something.
我的意思是，我们可以喷射水或其他东西。
I don't know.
我不知道。
That is true, isn't it?
确实如此，不是吗？
I hadn't stopped to think about that.
我没有停下来思考这个问题。
Gays can't get married, but they can buy a gun.
同性恋不能结婚，但可以买枪。
Yeah, and you know what the motto of the QRA will be, don't you?
是的，您知道 QRA 的座右铭是什么，不是吗？
No, I don't.
不，我不。
Joan Jett Black "What did you call me?" So there's that as well.
琼·杰特·布莱克“你叫我什么？”所以也有这样的情况。
You going to be out kissing babies and stuff between now and then?
从现在到那时你会出去亲吻婴儿之类的吗？
Well, I kiss babes.
好吧，我亲吻宝贝们。
I'm not really fond of babies.
我其实不太喜欢婴儿。
But I kiss babes, yeah.
但我亲吻宝贝，是的。
Now, you make a lot of a public appearances and you meet a lot of politicians.
现在，你经常公开露面，会见很多政客。
You know a lot of politicians.
你认识很多政客。
You do a lot of public speaking.
你做了很多公开演讲。
And I know that one of the things that you've said in the past I'd like you to explain a little bit is that you believe that a life in politics-- a politician's life-- is a great deal like a life in drag.
我知道你过去说过的一件事我想让你解释一下，那就是你相信政治生活——政治家的生活——很像变装生活。
Well, it's very interesting that one of the things that they tell a presidential candidate is that you have to look presidential.
嗯，非常有趣的是，他们告诉总统候选人的一件事是，你必须看起来像总统。
You have to walk presidential.
你必须走总统之路。
You have to move presidential.
你必须换总统。
They put on the drag of being the president or the drag of being the governor or the drag of being senator.
他们装出总统、州长、参议员的样子。
And it's very similar.
而且非常相似。
In a way, it's acting.
从某种意义上来说，这就是演技。
It's very similar to what drag is all about.
这与阻力非常相似。
And every little boy who wants to be president, he pictures himself standing in front of a podium speaking to a lot of people.
每个想当总统的小男孩都会想象自己站在讲台前对很多人讲话。
And every little boy who wants to be a drag queen pictures himself standing in front of a microphone lip syncing to a lot of people.
每个想成为变装皇后的小男孩都会想象自己站在麦克风前与很多人对口型。
So it's almost the same thing to me.
所以这对我来说几乎是一样的。
Joan Jett Black, presidential candidate for the year 2000.
琼·杰特·布莱克 (Joan Jett Black)，2000 年总统候选人。
Act Four, Inspiration.
第四幕，灵感。
It is easy to feel dispirited by the way things went this election year.
今年选举年的进展很容易让人感到沮丧。
So we wanted to end our post-election show today with a story of some politics that would inspire us and not depress us, which brought us to this story.
因此，我们想以一个有关政治的故事来结束今天的选举后节目，这些故事会激励我们而不是让我们沮丧，这让我们看到了这个故事。
It was written in May by Michael Lewis.
它是迈克尔·刘易斯 (Michael Lewis) 在五月写的。
It's from his campaign diaries.
这是来自他的竞选日记。
April 19.
4 月 19 日。
I leave my hotel earlier than I need to and walk down from the Washington Monument to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.
我比需要的时间更早离开酒店，从华盛顿纪念碑步行到越战纪念碑。
Even at 7:30 in the morning, the Mall is nearly deserted, the Lincoln Memorial empty.
即使在早上 7:30，购物中心也几乎空无一人，林肯纪念堂也空无一人。
The Vietnam Veterans Memorial, on the other hand, is teeming with people who appear to have been up for hours, walking slowly along the length of the black marble slab bearing the names of the dead.
另一方面，越战纪念碑挤满了似乎已经熬了几个小时的人们，沿着刻有死者名字的黑色大理石板缓慢行走。
For the next 20 minutes, I sit on a bench dodging bird droppings and waiting for Senator John McCain, who has agreed to meet me here.
在接下来的 20 分钟里，我坐在长凳上，躲避鸟粪，等待参议员约翰·麦凯恩，他同意在这里与我会面。
In my attempts to spot him at a distance, I can't help but notice how differently ordinary people behave from politicians.
当我试图远远地观察他时，我不禁注意到普通人的行为与政客的行为有多么不同。
Maybe 50 likely candidates pass through my line of vision, and not one of them could pass for a US senator at 100 paces.
也许有 50 名可能的候选人经过我的视线，但在 100 步的距离内，没有一个人能够成为美国参议员。
They comb their hair in public, scratch themselves, hold hands.
他们在公共场合梳头、抓伤自己、牵手。
At 8:00 on the button, McCain appears at my side, looking very senatorial except for a pair of outrageously wide black aviator sunglasses with some undignified name-- Hobby?
按钮上的 8:00 时，麦凯恩出现在我身边，除了戴着一副宽得离谱的黑色飞行员太阳镜外，麦凯恩出现在我身边，看上去非常像参议员，上面写着一些不雅观的名字——霍比？
Hippo?-- stenciled on the earpiece.
河马？——印在耳机上。
McCain is the Dole surrogate most in demand as a speaker around the country.
麦凯恩是全国最受欢迎的多尔代言人。
And it's not hard to see why.
不难看出原因。
What matters most to the people who wish to see McCain speak for Dole is the formative experience that the two senators ostensibly share.
对于那些希望看到麦凯恩代表多尔发言的人来说，最重要的是两位参议员表面上分享的形成经历。
Both nearly died in a war.
两人都差点在战争中丧生。
Both endured indescribable pain and suffering.
两人都承受着难以形容的痛苦和磨难。
Dole's ordeal is at the center of his national campaign.
多尔的遭遇是他全国竞选活动的核心。
To some extent, it is his campaign.
在某种程度上，这是他的竞选活动。
McCain's trials are less known.
麦凯恩的审判鲜为人知。
On October 26, 1967, when he ejected out of his Navy jet and into a North Vietnamese mob, McCain suffered two broken arms, a shattered knee and shoulder, and bayonet wounds in his ankle and groin.
1967 年 10 月 26 日，当麦凯恩从他的海军喷气机中弹射进入北越暴徒时，他的两条手臂折断，膝盖和肩膀骨折，脚踝和腹股沟被刺刀刺伤。
Robert Timberg's gripping book, The Nightingale's Song, depicts McCain two months later in his first prison cell.
罗伯特·廷伯格（Robert Timberg）的扣人心弦的书《夜莺之歌》描述了两个月后麦凯恩在他的第一间牢房中的情景。
McCain weighed less than 100 pounds.
麦凯恩的体重不到100磅。
His hair, flecked with gray since high school, was nearly snow white.
他的头发从高中起就开始花白，现在已经几乎雪白了。
Clots of food clung to his face, neck, hair and beard.
他的脸、脖子、头发和胡须上都沾满了食物块。
His cheeks were sunken, his neck chicken-like, his legs atrophying.
他的脸颊凹陷，脖子像鸡一样，双腿萎缩。
McCain survived in captivity without medical treatment for the next five years, enduring torture so exquisite that even to read about it causes sweat to pop out on your brow.
在接下来的五年里，麦凯恩在没有接受任何治疗的情况下在囚禁中幸存下来，忍受着如此严酷的酷刑，甚至读到它都会让你额头冒汗。
His captors would hang him by his broken arms from dangling ropes for hours on end, for instance.
例如，绑架者会用绳子吊着他断臂，连续吊几个小时。
But the astonishing part of McCain's experience was its voluntary aspect.
但麦凯恩的经历中令人惊讶的部分是其自愿的一面。
McCain is the third generation of a distinguished military family.
麦凯恩是显赫军人世家的第三代。
His father was an admiral during the Vietnam War.
他的父亲在越南战争期间是一名海军上将。
The North Vietnamese hoped that this famous prisoner of war would violate US military policy, which dictated that prisoners be returned in the order they arrived.
北越希望这位著名的战俘违反美国的军事政策，该政策规定囚犯按照到达的顺序返回。
If he accepted their offer of freedom, McCain would testify to the demoralization of the American troops.
如果麦凯恩接受他们提供的自由，他将证明美国军队士气低落。
For five and a half years, his captors tried to torture him into going home.
五年半以来，绑架者一直试图折磨他回家。
For five and a half years, he refused to go.
五年半以来，他拒绝去。
We walk alongside the black granite slab against the oncoming traffic, then back again.
我们沿着黑色花岗岩板行走，迎着迎面驶来的车辆，然后又返回。
The Park Service says that the memorial has become the second most frequently visited site in Washington after the Capitol.
公园管理局表示，该纪念馆已成为华盛顿第二大参观地点，仅次于国会大厦。
McCain admits that at first, he found it depressing and even faintly antagonistic.
麦凯恩承认，一开始他觉得这很令人沮丧，甚至还有点敌意。
But one day, he was passing through on his own-- he visits often by himself-- and discovered a couple of veterans running their hands across the inscribed names.
但有一天，他独自路过——他经常亲自来访——发现几个退伍军人正在用手抚摸刻着的名字。
Clearly, the two men had never met before, but they had fallen into conversation, swapped war stories, and in a few minutes were clutching each other and weeping.
显然，这两个人以前从未见过面，但他们已经开始交谈，交换战争故事，几分钟后就互相拥抱哭泣。
If that kind of healing goes on, says McCain, well, then it's a good thing.
麦凯恩说，如果这种治愈持续下去，那是一件好事。
Someone once said that an explanation is where the mind comes to rest.
有人曾经说过，解释是心灵休息的地方。
There is a feeling about McCain-- one that seems lacking in Dole-- that he has somehow explained his own experience to himself.
麦凯恩有一种感觉——多尔似乎缺乏这种感觉——他以某种方式向自己解释了自己的经历。
He has assimilated his trauma differently than the candidate he's behind.
他对自己创伤的理解与他支持的候选人不同。
He says, "This is the McCain theory, and I think it's valid.
他说：“这是麦凯恩的理论，我认为它是有效的。
I was an adult when I was shot down.
当我被击落时我已经是成年人了。
31 years old.
31岁。
I'd had a whole life.
我已经度过了一生。
He was 19.
他19岁。
What were you like when you were 19?
你19岁时是什么样的？
I believe that everything Bob Dole has done since the war was dictated by that experience."
我相信鲍勃·多尔自战争以来所做的一切都是由那段经历决定的。”
The Vietnam veteran has achieved a kind of equanimity that is supposed to be reserved only for veterans of good wars.
这位越战老兵获得了一种只有参加过好战的老兵才能拥有的平静。
When Clinton arrived at the White House, for instance, McCain sent him a note saying that any time the president wished to walk down to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, the senator from Arizona would be glad to walk alongside him.
例如，当克林顿抵达白宫时，麦凯恩给他发了一张便条，称每当总统希望步行前往越战纪念碑时，来自亚利桑那州的参议员都会很乐意与他同行。
Clinton sent back a nice note.
克林顿发回了一封友好的便条。
Recalling this exchange causes McCain to break his rhythm.
回想起这段对话，麦凯恩打乱了自己的节奏。
We were walking back towards the bench, and McCain is limping slightly, like a high school football star.
我们走回替补席时，麦凯恩有点一瘸一拐，就像一个高中橄榄球明星。
Hi is remembering something else.
嗨，想起了别的事。
"I don't know if you want to write about this," he begins.
“我不知道你是否想写这个，”他开始说道。
"Back in the mid-'80s, a guy who protested the war came into my office.
“早在 80 年代中期，一个抗议战争的人就来到我的办公室。
He said his name was David Ifshin."
他说他的名字叫大卫·伊夫辛。”
In December 1970, David Ifshin had led a group of American students to Hanoi, where he delivered an antiwar radio address to American soldiers engaged in attacks on North Vietnam.
1970 年 12 月，大卫·伊夫辛 (David Ifshin) 带领一群美国学生前往河内，向参与袭击北越的美国士兵发表反战广播讲话。
Like other anti-American propaganda, his program was piped into McCain's prison cell from 6:00 in the morning until 9:00 at night.
与其他反美宣传一样，他的节目从早上 6:00 到晚上 9:00 一直通过管道传送到麦凯恩的牢房。
But McCain, who can generate anger in a heartbeat, shows not the faintest trace of resentment.
但一瞬间就能产生愤怒的麦凯恩却没有表现出一丝怨恨。
He explains, "Ifshin stood in my office and he says, 'I came here to tell you I made a mistake.
他解释说，“伊夫辛站在我的办公室里说，‘我来这里是为了告诉你我犯了一个错误。
I was wrong, and I'm sorry.' And I said to him, 'Look, I accept your apology.
我错了，我很抱歉。我对他说，‘听着，我接受你的道歉。
We'll be friends.
我们会成为朋友。
But more importantly, I want you to forget it.
但更重要的是，我希望你忘记它。
Go on with your life.
继续你的生活。
You cannot look back.'"
你不能回头。’”
Here he pauses, and I figure he's finished.
说到这里他停了下来，我想他已经说完了。
But he's groping behind his aviator sunglasses for the point of his anecdote, that forgiveness is ultimately less self-destructive than the bitter desire for revenge.
但他在飞行员墨镜后面摸索着他的轶事的要点，即宽恕最终比强烈的复仇欲望更不具有自我毁灭性。
Or perhaps that there is no such thing as revenge.
或者也许根本不存在复仇这回事。
Five months ago, David Ifshin was diagnosed with cancer.
五个月前，大卫·伊夫辛被诊断出患有癌症。
The cancer has proved untreatable and has spread rapidly.
事实证明，这种癌症无法治愈，并且扩散迅速。
David Ifshin is now dying.
大卫·伊夫辛现在快要死了。
He's 47 years old and has a wife and three young children.
他今年 47 岁，有妻子和三个年幼的孩子。
Says McCain, "When I heard about it, it did pass through my mind.
麦凯恩说：“当我听说这件事时，它确实闪现在我的脑海里。
Suppose I had told David Ifshin to get the hell out of my office.
假设我告诉大卫·伊夫辛滚出我的办公室。
How would I feel about myself now?"
我现在对自己感觉如何？”
April 23.
4 月 23 日。
I'm walking out the door of my Washington apartment on my way to find David Ifshin when John McCain calls.
我正走出华盛顿公寓的大门，准备去找大卫·伊夫辛，约翰·麦凯恩打来电话。
I've made the mistake of telling his press secretary what I'm up to, and she's passed it along to the senator, who is seriously concerned.
我错误地告诉了他的新闻秘书我在做什么，她把这件事转达给了参议员，后者对此表示严重关切。
He says, "Look, I don't mean to insult you, but be careful with this.
他说：“听着，我不是有意侮辱你，但要小心一点。
If you wrote anything that hurt David or Gail or the kids, I'd never forgive myself.
如果你写了任何伤害大卫、盖尔或孩子们的东西，我永远不会原谅自己。
I'd forgive you, but I wouldn't forgive myself."
我会原谅你，但我不会原谅我自己。”
It's a half-hour drive out of Washington to the Ifshin's house in the Maryland suburbs, where I find a gaunt, bearded man stretched out on a patio lounge chair, attended by his wife, Gail.
从华盛顿出发，驱车半小时到达马里兰州郊区伊夫辛的家，在那里我发现一个憔悴、留着胡须的男人躺在露台躺椅上，由他的妻子盖尔陪伴。
This afternoon he's tired, and his voice is barely audible as he sketches his political career.
今天下午，他很累，在讲述自己的政治生涯时，声音几乎听不见。
The cover of Life magazine of April 23, 1971 shows David Ifshin, age 22, at a war rally, wearing a collegiate goatee.
1971 年 4 月 23 日《生活》杂志的封面上，22 岁的大卫·伊夫辛 (David Ifshin) 在一次战争集会上留着大学山羊胡。
He's standing directly behind Jane Fonda, who has her fist raised.
他就站在简·方达的正后方，简·方达举起了拳头。
After his war protests, he worked on a kibbutz.
战争抗议结束后，他在基布兹工作。
But when he returned to America, he also returned to national politics.
但当他回到美国后，他也回到了国家政治。
He went on to work on the Mondale campaign and, to a storm of protest, was even tapped to head the Dukakis transition team.
他继续为蒙代尔竞选活动工作，在强烈的抗议声中，他甚至被任命为杜卡基斯过渡团队的负责人。
He spent 10 years as general counsel to AIPAC, the Israeli lobby.
他在以色列游说团体 AIPAC 担任了 10 年的总法律顾问。
He had met Clinton briefly in 1972.
1972年，他曾与克林顿短暂会面。
20 years later, when Clinton ran for president, Ifshin became general counsel for his campaign.
20年后，当克林顿竞选总统时，伊夫辛成为他竞选活动的总法律顾问。
Before he accepted the job, however, he told Clinton he'd been attacked for his war record each time he'd joined a presidential campaign.
然而，在接受这份工作之前，他告诉克林顿，每次参加总统竞选时，他都会因为战争记录而受到攻击。
He says, "I brought it up with Clinton deliberately.
他说：“我故意向克林顿提出这件事。
And he said he knew what I'd done, and he admired it then.
他说他知道我做了什么，然后他很钦佩。
And that he still admired it now."
而且他现在仍然很欣赏它。”
These days, Clinton calls Ifshin two or three times each week, even when he's traveling.
如今，克林顿每周都会给伊夫辛打电话两到三次，即使他在旅行时也是如此。
A few months ago, the Ifshin family spent the night in the Lincoln bedroom.
几个月前，伊夫辛一家在林肯卧室过夜。
In the pictures of Clinton playing with the Ifshin children, the president's ruddy good health seems almost obscene besides Ifshin's drawn face.
在克林顿与伊夫辛孩子们玩耍的照片中，除了伊夫辛憔悴的脸之外，总统红润的健康状况看起来几乎是可憎的。
Yet, when I called him, David Ifshin did not hesitate to rise to the occasion.
然而，当我给他打电话时，大卫·伊夫辛毫不犹豫地挺身而出。
He says, "I'm very proud of this story, and it's never been written," I ask him about his feelings towards McCain.
他说：“我对这个故事感到非常自豪，而且它从未被写出来。”我问他对麦凯恩的感受。
He says, "One of our true political heroes.
他说：“我们真正的政治英雄之一。
He's a giant."
他是一个巨人。”
Ifshin's version of their story differs from McCain's in its important details and in its spirit.
伊夫辛的故事版本与麦凯恩的版本在重要细节和精神上有所不同。
The way McCain tells it, Ifshin is the hero.
按照麦凯恩的说法，伊夫辛是英雄。
He decided he'd made a mistake and bravely took responsibility for his actions.
他认定自己犯了错误，并勇敢地为自己的行为承担责任。
The way Ifshin tells it, McCain is the hero.
按照伊夫辛的说法，麦凯恩是英雄。
As I listened to him, I realized that this is the reverse of the usual Washington investigation in which the reporter visits each interested party to collect the dirt on the adversary.
当我听他讲话时，我意识到这与华盛顿通常的调查相反，在华盛顿的调查中，记者走访每一个相关方，收集对手的丑闻。
Here is a case where each is needed to explain the other's nobility of spirit.
在这个例子中，双方都需要解释对方精神的高贵性。
I have never heard two political allies-- much less two political opponents-- cast each other in a more flattering light.
我从未听说过两个政治盟友——更不用说两个政治对手——对彼此给予更奉承的态度了。
Ifshin begins, "I had always wanted to apologize, but didn't know who to apologize to." His moment to act, he decided, came at an AIPAC meeting around 1986 at the Washington Hilton.
Ifshin 开始说道：“我一直想道歉，但不知道该向谁道歉。”他决定，1986 年左右在华盛顿希尔顿酒店举行的 AIPAC 会议是他采取行动的时机。
Ifshin spotted Senator John McCain at a distance and decided that he was the man who deserved the apology.
伊夫辛远远地看到了参议员约翰·麦凯恩，并认为他是应该道歉的人。
Ifshin says, "I hoisted up my courage and went over to him.
伊夫辛说：“我鼓起勇气走向他。
And before I could get a word out, McCain says, 'I owe you an apology.'"
在我开口说话之前，麦凯恩说，‘我欠你一个道歉。’”
A couple of years earlier, during the 1984 presidential campaign, McCain had given a speech in which he attacked Ifshin's war record.
几年前，在 1984 年总统竞选期间，麦凯恩曾发表演讲，攻击伊夫辛的战争记录。
"Basically, someone had handed him a script," says Ifshin, "and he read it.
“基本上，有人递给他一份剧本，”伊夫辛说，“他读了它。
He was sorry he did it, and said he wouldn't do that kind of thing again.
他很后悔自己做了这样的事，并表示以后不会再做这样的事了。
Then he asked me to stop by his office, which I did, and normally wouldn't do.
然后他让我去他的办公室，我去了，但通常不会去。
It was blind fate, I told him at that time.
这是盲目的命运，我当时告诉他。
I said, 'I owed you an apology, and you robbed me of the chance to make it.' And he was characteristically modest and humble about it." Later that year, McCain and Ifshin, together with a Vietnamese emigre named Doan Van Toai, established the Institute for Democracy in Vietnam.
我说：“我欠你一个道歉，你却剥夺了我道歉的机会。”他对此表现出一贯的谦虚和谦逊。”同年晚些时候，麦凯恩和伊夫辛与越南移民Doan Van Toai 一起在越南建立了民主研究所。
Ifshin shifts painfully in his chair and stops to catch his breath.
伊夫辛在椅子上痛苦地动了动，然后停下来喘口气。
It was at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial that what he calls "the second half of the story" with McCain began.
正是在越战纪念碑，他所说的与麦凯恩的“故事的后半部分”开始了。
On Memorial Day of 1993, Bill Clinton spoke at the site.
1993 年阵亡将士纪念日，比尔·克林顿在现场发表讲话。
Both McCain and Ifshin were present.
麦凯恩和伊夫辛都在场。
Clinton was cheered loudly.
克林顿大声欢呼。
He was also heckled.
他也被质问了。
And one of the hecklers waved a sign that said "tell us about Ifshin."
其中一名质问者挥舞着一块牌子，上面写着“告诉我们关于伊夫辛的事情”。
Four weeks later, Ifshin found himself on a flight to Washington with McCain, who motioned for him to take the seat beside him.
四个星期后，伊夫辛发现自己与麦凯恩一起飞往华盛顿，麦凯恩示意他坐在他旁边。
Ifshin says, "He asked why I hadn't taken a job in the administration.
伊夫辛说：“他问我为什么没有在政府部门工作。
I said this and that.
我说这说那。
We played 20 questions until finally he said, 'It's because of that stupid sign, isn't it?' And I said, "Yes, partly it was.' And he said, 'Come to my office tomorrow morning and we'll settle this thing once and for all.'"
我们玩了 20 个问题，最后他说：“这是因为那个愚蠢的标志，不是吗？”我说：“是的，部分是这样。”他说，‘明天早上到我的办公室来，我们会一劳永逸地解决这件事。’”
The next day, June 30, 1993, David Ifshin turned up in John McCain's office in the Russell Senate Office Building to find that the senator had drafted a letter which he entered later that day in the Congressional Record .
第二天，即 1993 年 6 月 30 日，大卫·伊夫辛 (David Ifshin) 出现在拉塞尔参议院办公大楼约翰·麦凯恩 (John McCain) 的办公室，发现这位参议员起草了一封信，并于当天晚些时候将其记入国会记录。
It began by praising Clinton's Memorial Day address on behalf of Vietnam's veterans.
它首先赞扬克林顿代表越南退伍军人在阵亡将士纪念日发表的讲话。
The veterans, McCain wrote, "were very impressed by Clinton's determination to offer an eloquent tribute to their service when it would have been far easier for him to avoid the event altogether.
麦凯恩写道，退伍军人“对克林顿决心向他们的服务表示雄辩的敬意印象深刻，而对他来说，完全避免参加这一活动本来会容易得多。
McCain decried the behavior of the protesters.
麦凯恩谴责抗议者的行为。
Then he moved on.
然后他继续前进。
"Among the demonstrators that day, one individual held a sign which asked the president to explain his association with a person known to many of our colleagues, Mr. David Ifshin.
“那天的示威者中，有人举着标语，要求总统解释他与我们许多同事都认识的大卫·伊夫辛先生的关系。
'Tell us about Ifshin,' it read.
“告诉我们关于伊夫辛的事，”上面写着。
My other purpose in speaking today is to do just that.
我今天讲话的另一个目的就是做到这一点。
I want to talk about David Ifshin.
我想谈谈大卫·伊夫辛。
David Ifshin is my friend.
大卫·伊夫辛是我的朋友。
This declaration may come as a shock to those people whose perception of David--"
这个声明可能会让那些对大卫有看法的人感到震惊——”
Well, in the weeks after that was published-- it was published in May, by the way, not written in May-- David Ifshin died, and John McCain became a leading vice presidential contender after Jack Kemp.
好吧，在那篇文章出版后的几周内——顺便说一句，它是在五月出版的，而不是五月写的——大卫·伊夫辛去世了，约翰·麦凯恩成为继杰克·坎普之后的主要副总统竞争者。
It was John McCain who nominated Bob Dole, gave the speech for that at the Republican National Convention.
约翰·麦凯恩提名鲍勃·多尔，并在共和党全国代表大会上发表演讲。
And Michael Lewis ran into McCain on Election Day.
迈克尔·刘易斯在选举日遇到了麦凯恩。
It was funny.
这很有趣。
Everywhere you went with the Dole campaign, senators and governors would come out of the woodwork because they wanted to have their picture taken and show support, all the rest.
无论你在多尔竞选活动中走到哪里，参议员和州长都会突然出现，因为他们想要拍照并表示支持，等等。
Until the final day, and they all cleared out.
直到最后一天，他们都散场了。
No senators or governors were traveling with him.
没有参议员或州长与他同行。
There was one person at his side, and it was John McCain.
他身边有一个人，那就是约翰·麦凯恩。
And I was in Russell, Kansas when the Dole campaign came through.
当多尔竞选活动开始时，我正在堪萨斯州拉塞尔。
And I noticed this.
我注意到了这一点。
I saw McCain kind of off to one side.
我看到麦凯恩有点偏向一边。
He had been with Dole all day.
他一整天都和多尔在一起。
And I went up to talk to him.
我就上去和他说话。
And he said to me almost apologetically, he said, "You know I wouldn't be here if I thought he was going to win."
他几乎带着歉意地对我说，“你知道，如果我认为他会赢，我就不会在这里了。”
And I knew that.
我知道这一点。
He was there because he knew that it was Dole's time of need, and it was time for someone to step up.
他在那里是因为他知道现在是多尔需要帮助的时候，是时候有人站出来了。
And this is what's so curious about McCain.
这就是麦凯恩令人好奇的地方。
I think that he continually-- as I covered this campaign-- I was new to politics when I came into this campaign.
我认为，当我报道这场竞选活动时，他一直认为，当我参加这场竞选活动时，我对政治还是个新手。
I had never written about politics.
我从来没有写过关于政治的文章。
I found that McCain sort restored my faith in the process again and again.
我发现麦凯恩一次又一次地恢复了我对这个过程的信心。
There was something about his-- how should I put it?
他身上有某种东西——我该怎么说呢？
It was his willingness to stick his neck out for a losing or an unpopular cause that was so different from most of the people who do what he does for a living-- so different from the ordinary political attitude-- that was refreshing and inspiring.
他愿意为了失败的或不受欢迎的事业而拼尽全力，这与大多数以他为生的人如此不同，与普通的政治态度如此不同，这令人耳目一新和鼓舞人心。
Michael Lewis.
迈克尔·刘易斯.
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Alix Spiegel and myself with Peter Clowney and Nancy Updike, contributing editors Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, and Margy Rochlin.
图片来源：Ira Glass 我们的节目今天由我和阿利克斯·斯皮格尔、彼得·克劳尼和南希·厄普代克、特约编辑保罗·托夫、杰克·希特和玛吉·罗克林共同制作。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Music help from John Connors, Travis Stancil, and Steve Cushing.
[致谢] 约翰·康纳斯 (John Connors)、特拉维斯·斯坦西尔 (Travis Stancil) 和史蒂夫·库欣 (Steve Cushing) 的音乐帮助。
Thanks to public radio stations WBUR, KPCC, and KQED.
感谢公共广播电台 WBUR、KPCC 和 KQED。
If you'd like a copy of this program, it only costs $10.
如果您想要该程序的副本，只需花费 10 美元。
Call us at WBEZ in Chicago.
请致电芝加哥 WBEZ。
312-832-3380.
312-832-3380。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 监督。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。