408: Island Time - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #408 | May 21, 2010 408: Island Time Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 408 集 | 2010 年 5 月 21 日 408：岛屿时间 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago it's This American Life , and distributed by Public Radio International, I'm Ira Glass.
序言 Ira Glass 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行，我是 Ira Glass。
The voices that you are hearing is some children.
你听到的声音是一些孩子的声音。
What are they doing?
他们在做什么？
Joseph-romuald Felix They are just walking.
约瑟夫-罗穆尔德·菲利克斯 他们只是在散步。
Nothing else.
没有别的了。
This week I talked to a Haitian journalist, Romuald Felix, over his cell phone as he recorded himself walking around one of the tent cities where some of the 1.3 million displaced Haitians are still living.
本周，我通过手机采访了一位海地记者罗穆阿尔德·菲利克斯 (Romuald Felix)，他记录了自己在一个帐篷城中行走的过程，那里有 130 万流离失所的海地人，其中一些人仍然居住在这个帐篷城里。
This was a small tent city in a plaza in the Place Saint Pierre crammed with people.
这是圣皮埃尔广场一个广场上的一个小帐篷城，里面挤满了人。
You can see, you know this music that you hear is a man who is putting a big speaker out and some people are dancing.
你可以看到，你知道你听到的音乐是一个男人拿出一个大扬声器，有些人在跳舞。
And you can see a man is just sitting there doing nothing.
你可以看到一个人只是坐在那里无所事事。
He is just watching.
他只是在看着。
Four months after the earthquake, Romuald says that some people were working, selling fruit, charging cell phones for money on the street, but lots aren't.
地震发生四个月后，罗穆尔德说，有些人在街上工作、卖水果、给手机充电，但很多人却没有。
The rainy season-- which everyone has been dreading-- finally started in earnest last week.
每个人都害怕的雨季终于在上周真正开始了。
He was trapped in his office one day by water three feet deep.
有一天，他被三英尺深的水困在办公室里。
Camps get muddy.
营地变得泥泞。
Water gets in the tents.
水进入帐篷。
People have trouble sleeping with it so wet.
人们在如此潮湿的情况下睡觉会很困难。
In this camp, people still have to bathe where everybody can see.
在这个营地里，人们仍然必须在每个人都能看到的地方洗澡。
There are only six toilets for a thousand people, or maybe it's a lot more than a thousand, so lots of people go in plastic bags.
一千人只有六个厕所，或者可能远不止一千人，所以很多人都用塑料袋进去。
And in the six camps that Romuald visited this week, aid agencies had stopped giving out food.
在罗穆尔德本周访问的六个难民营中，援助机构已经停止分发食物。
[ROMUALD SPEAKING FRENCH WITH HAITIAN CHILDREN]
[罗马人和海地孩子说法语]
It was 5:00 at night.
当时是晚上 5:00。
Romuald asked these four children if they'd eaten today.
罗穆尔德问这四个孩子今天吃了没有。
[ROMUALD SPEAKING FRENCH WITH HAITIAN CHILDREN]
[罗马人和海地孩子说法语]
Two of them said, "I ate something today," and the others said, "No I haven't eaten anything."
其中两个人说：“我今天吃了点东西。”其他人说：“不，我什么也没吃。”
When I talked this week to Nan Buzard-- who runs relief operations in Haiti for the American Red Cross-- she was unsurprised to hear that people aren't getting food and services, with over 1,000 makeshift camps, there are a lot of gaps.
本周，当我与为美国红十字会在海地负责救援行动的南·布扎德 (Nan Buzard) 交谈时，她对人们得不到食物和服务并不感到惊讶，因为有 1000 多个临时营地，存在很大的缺口。
She'd just returned from Haiti the day before we spoke and said that now that they're shifting from the immediate disaster relief to the rebuilding of the country, the decisions have gotten very complicated.
我们谈话的前一天，她刚刚从海地回来，她说现在他们的工作重点从立即救灾转向国家重建，决策变得非常复杂。
I know in Haiti already there are some evaluations where it's showing that local farmers don't feel like it's worth buying seed or bringing their crops into market, because people have had free food distributions.
我知道在海地已经有一些评估表明当地农民觉得不值得购买种子或将他们的农作物投入市场，因为人们可以免费分发食物。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass So when should relief agencies stop giving away free food or providing shelter?
Ira Glass 那么救援机构什么时候应该停止免费提供食物或提供住所呢？
When does that become counterproductive?
什么时候这会适得其反？
What should they do about something as basic as water?
对于像水这样基本的东西，他们应该做什么？
Prior to the earthquake, 70% of the water in Port-au-Prince was sold out of water tanker trucks by small commercial firms.
地震前，太子港70%的水都是由小型商业公司通过水罐车出售的。
So do we use aid money to actually put those small, individual companies back in business so that they can then charge money for water?
那么，我们是否可以利用援助资金让那些小型个体公司重新营业，以便他们可以收取水费？
Do we try to support the government to actually create a water policy and plan, an infrastructure that provides a certain amount of water free, and then perhaps over that it's a cost to the government?
我们是否试图支持政府实际制定水政策和计划，提供一定量免费水的基础设施，然后也许超过这对政府来说是成本？
So that seems like an impossible choice.
所以这似乎是一个不可能的选择。
What are we doing?
我们在做什么？
Today on our radio show-- there's been this fantastic outpouring of money and goodwill from around the world.
今天，在我们的广播节目中，来自世界各地的资金和善意源源不断地涌出。
Nearly half of all American households have donated to Haiti, according to one survey.
一项调查显示，近一半的美国家庭向海地捐款。
Haitians and foreigners have dedicated themselves to rebuilding the country.
海地人和外国人致力于重建国家。
And now the question is, how exactly do you do that?
现在的问题是，你到底如何做到这一点？
Even with all this money and expertise, it's incredibly complicated.
即使有这么多的资金和专业知识，它仍然非常复杂。
And today we join the people on the ground as they try to figure out what would be best.
今天，我们和当地的人们一起努力找出最好的办法。
Next.
下一个。
Our show in three acts.
我们的演出分三幕。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, 10,000 Brainiacs.
第一幕，一万名天才。
We're all used to the basics.
我们都已经习惯了基础知识。
Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere, one of the 10 or so poorest countries on earth, with the special designation of being one of the few countries in the world that-- for decades-- has gotten poorer and poorer over time.
海地是西半球最贫穷的国家，是地球上十个左右最贫穷的国家之一，并且被特别指定为世界上少数几个几十年来越来越贫穷的国家之一。
This despite billions in foreign aid, despite the fact that even before the earthquake there were approximately 10,000 non-governmental organizations trying to do good in the country.
尽管有数十亿美元的外国援助，尽管在地震发生之前就有大约一万个非政府组织试图在该国做好事。
Two of the reporters that you hear a lot on our show doing economic stories-- Adam Davidson and Chana Joffe-Walt-- have been trying to figure out how it is possible Haiti is still so poor despite all that.
你在我们的节目中经常听到两位报道经济报道的记者——亚当·戴维森和查纳·乔夫-沃尔特——一直在试图弄清楚尽管如此，海地为何仍然如此贫穷。
They've been traveling back and forth to the country following developments over the last few months and have this story.
过去几个月，他们一直往返于该国，关注事态发展，并讲述了这个故事。
Here's something that happens a lot in Haiti.
这是在海地经常发生的事情。
You meet someone poor and they tell you the sad reality of their life, some challenge they face every day that keeps them poor.
你遇到一个穷人，他们告诉你他们生活中的悲惨现实，他们每天面临的一些挑战使他们陷入贫困。
You hear the details and you just can't believe the magnitude of the problem, not because it's big and complicated, because it is so, so small.
当你听到细节时，你简直不敢相信问题的严重性，不是因为它大而复杂，而是因为它是如此、如此小。
For example, we met a farmer at this farm, a dusty, patchy field, nothing valuable growing on it, except in the corner, mangoes.
例如，我们在这个农场遇到了一位农民，那是一片尘土飞扬、斑驳的田地，除了角落里长着芒果外，上面没有任何有价值的东西。
How many trees do you have?
你有多少棵树？
Farmer [SPEAKING FRENCH]
农民[说法语]
He has two.
他有两个。
Chana Joffe-Walt The farmer tells us, two trees is barely enough to make a living.
Chana Joffe-Walt 农民告诉我们，两棵树勉强够维持生计。
She wants more trees.
她想要更多的树。
She has the space for 100 trees.
她有空间容纳 100 棵树。
She has the time to tend them, but she has no water.
她有时间照顾它们，但她没有水。
Mango trees need water.
芒果树需要水。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Adam Davidson But then we walk across the field.
[说法语] 亚当·戴维森 然后我们穿过田野。
And right at the far end of it is this roaring river.
而在它的尽头就是这条咆哮的河流。
Right there.
就在那里。
Right next to her farm.
就在她的农场旁边。
Why is water a problem if you have water right here?
如果这里有水，为什么水会成为问题？
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Adam Davidson We talked about this question for a long time.
[说法语] Adam Davidson 我们讨论了这个问题很长时间。
It was really confusing.
真是令人困惑。
It just did not make sense to us that she couldn't come up with some way to get water from the river right next to her farm onto her farm.
对于我们来说，她无法想出某种方法将水从她农场旁边的河流引到她的农场，这对我们来说是没有意义的。
At one point I thought, is she lying to us?
有一次我想，她是不是在骗我们？
Why would she lie?
她为什么要撒谎？
Is she just lazy?
她只是懒吗？
Does she not have a bucket?
她没有水桶吗？
So many questions.
这么多问题。
How do you get water now?
现在怎么取水呢？
Chana Joffe-Walt Why don't you have enough water to water these trees?
Chana Joffe-Walt 为什么没有足够的水来浇灌这些树？
Dozens of questions and a consultation with the local mayor--
几十个问题并咨询了当地市长——
Who happens to be a self-proclaimed, amateur, mango specialist.
他恰好自称为业余芒果专家。
Yes, that all ultimately reveals a wildly undramatic truth.
是的，这一切最终揭示了一个极其平淡的事实。
She needs a canal, some guys with shovels to dig a trench, some concrete to protect it.
她需要一条运河，一些人用铲子挖沟，一些混凝土来保护它。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Adam Davidson The world's simplest, shortest canal.
[法语] Adam Davidson 世界上最简单、最短的运河。
It's a little tricky.
这有点棘手。
The water needs to sit in a particular way around the roots of the mango tree, so you need some control over the water.
水需要以特定的方式停留在芒果树的根部周围，因此您需要对水进行一些控制。
But it's not that tricky.
但这并不那么棘手。
It's technology the Sumerians probably took for granted 5,000 years ago.
5000 年前，苏美尔人可能认为这是理所当然的技术。
It would cost-- at most-- $2,000.
最多花费 2,000 美元。
And if she gets a canal, she and her family go from being some of the poorest people on earth to much better off.
如果她修建了一条运河，她和她的家人就会从地球上最贫穷的人变得更加富裕。
This is what kept striking us in Haiti, just a little upfront investment and people could be living so much better.
这就是海地一直让我们震惊的地方，只需一点点前期投资，人们就可以过上更好的生活。
And with 10,000 organizations in the country doing nothing but trying to make people's lives better-- 10,000 organizations whose mission is to do things like building canals-- how come the average Haitian makes half as much as they did 50 years ago?
该国有 10,000 个组织除了努力让人们的生活变得更好之外什么都不做——10,000 个组织的使命是做诸如修建运河之类的事情——为什么海地人的平均收入只有 50 年前的一半？
How come life wasn't improving even before the earthquake?
为什么在地震发生之前生活就没有改善？
Well, to answer that, we have to leave the farm for a couple minutes-- we will be back-- and meet a businessman name Jean-Maurice Buteau and watch him try to work with one of those non-governmental organizations-- NGOs-- to solve one problem for Haitian farmers.
好吧，为了回答这个问题，我们必须离开农场几分钟——我们会回来的——去见一位名叫让-莫里斯·布托(Jean-Maurice Buteau)的商人，看着他试图与其中一个非政府组织——非政府组织——合作，为海地农民解决一个问题。
The story begins two years ago.
故事要从两年前说起。
I heard about Jean-Maurice weeks before we met him.
在我们见到让-莫里斯之前几周我就听说了他。
We'd been going around Port-au-Prince asking, what are the main industries?
我们一直在询问太子港的主要产业是什么？
Who are the main players?
主要参与者有哪些？
And there aren't a lot of big businessmen in Haiti.
海地的大商人并不多。
The ones that do exist all know each other.
确实存在的人都互相认识。
They're unusual Haitians in almost every way.
他们几乎在各个方面都是不寻常的海地人。
They tend to have light skin, they drive cars, have college degrees, speak English.
他们的皮肤往往较浅，会开车，拥有大学学位，会说英语。
Jean-Maurice though, he's the only one known by a special name.
但让-莫里斯是唯一一个有特殊名字的人。
First of all, what do you sell specifically?
首先，你具体卖什么？
Well, we export mangoes.
嗯，我们出口芒果。
Mango is the number one agricultural export from Haiti.
芒果是海地第一大出口农产品。
Are you Mr. Mango?
您是芒果先生吗？
Jean-maurice Buteau That's what they call me.
让-莫里斯·布托 他们就是这么称呼我的。
Just people started calling me like that.
只是人们开始这样称呼我。
We actually found out later that most people call Jean-Maurice "Mango Man," not Mr. Mango.
事实上，我们后来发现，大多数人称让-莫里斯为“芒果人”，而不是芒果先生。
And Mango Man is one of the biggest mango exporters in Haiti.
Mango Man 是海地最大的芒果出口商之一。
Mango Man has a very consistent look.
芒果侠的造型非常一致。
Most any day, any context, he's in a white linen button-down, sunglasses with the strap around the back of his head, and a Bluetooth headset.
大多数时候，无论在什么场合，他都穿着白色亚麻系扣衬衫，戴着太阳镜，将带子系在脑后，戴着蓝牙耳机。
He talks on the Bluetooth a lot, usually while ramming his Jeep through Port-au-Prince's potholes, even while he's talking to you.
他经常通过蓝牙说话，通常是在他的吉普车驶过太子港的坑洼时，甚至是在和你说话的时候。
It's Bluetooth, you, Bluetooth, you, seamless, and confusing if you're you.
这是蓝牙，你，蓝牙，你，无缝，如果你是你，就会感到困惑。
And Mango Man has a problem.
芒果人有一个问题。
Fruit wholesalers in New York and Miami want to buy a lot of his mangoes.
纽约和迈阿密的水果批发商想大量购买他的芒果。
But he can't get enough to meet the demand--
但他无法得到足够的东西来满足需求——
Which is strange, because Haiti actually grows enough mangoes to send to all of the Floridians and New Yorkers who want them.
这很奇怪，因为海地实际上种植了足够的芒果，可以发送给所有想要它们的佛罗里达人和纽约人。
But most of those mangoes aren't grown on big farms.
但大多数芒果都不是在大农场种植的。
They're grown by individual farmers with just two or three mango trees each.
它们是由个体农民种植的，每棵只有两三棵芒果树。
And every season, those farmers pick the mangoes and then store them in a pile outside their houses, or under their beds, where they wait until some middle man-- usually a local guy with a donkey-- comes by and buys them.
每个季节，这些农民都会采摘芒果，然后将它们堆放在屋外或床下，等待中间人（通常是带着驴子的当地人）过来购买它们。
Americans-- as it turns out-- don't like mangoes that have sat under Haitian beds.
事实证明，美国人不喜欢海地床下的芒果。
Those usually have bruises on them, marks.
那些身上通常有瘀伤、痕迹。
And so, two years ago-- long before the earthquake-- Jean-Maurice came up with a solution, a business concept that would double his revenue.
因此，两年前，也就是地震发生之前很久，让·莫里斯提出了一个解决方案，一个可以让他的收入翻倍的商业理念。
The concept is-- the simplest thing is cleaning the fruit, transporting it in a plastic crate, to a facility that is not exposed to the sun.
这个概念是——最简单的事情就是清洁水果，将其装在塑料箱中运输到不暴露在阳光下的设施。
So basically, you lose a huge amount of your crop because people don't use plastic containers?
那么基本上，你会因为人们不使用塑料容器而损失大量农作物吗？
And they don't clean the fruit and they don't transport it correctly.
他们不清洁水果，也不正确运输水果。
The amount of damage we witness-- over 40% to 50% of our production in all sectors-- lost between the field and the table.
我们目睹的损失量——我们所有部门生产的 40% 到 50% 以上——在现场和餐桌之间损失了。
So you are on a mission to get plastic crates to mango farmers.
因此，您的任务是为芒果种植者提供塑料箱。
I mean, it's very self-serving because I'm going to have more product.
我的意思是，这是非常自私的，因为我将拥有更多的产品。
I mean, I'm not a philanthropist.
我的意思是，我不是慈善家。
I'm doing this because I need the product.
我这样做是因为我需要这个产品。
So back two years ago, before the earthquake, the first thing Jean-Maurice did was he took a bunch of crates, drove 45 minutes out of town to a small mango growing village called Casale.
两年前，地震发生前，Jean-Maurice 做的第一件事就是带着一堆板条箱，开车 45 分钟出城，来到一个名叫卡萨莱 (Casale) 的芒果种植小村庄。
And he went to each house one by one.
他也一一走访了每一户人家。
He'd find the mango farmers on some tiny dirt road.
他会在一条小土路上找到芒果种植者。
He'd get out of his jeep and hand out his crates.
他会从吉普车里下来，分发他的板条箱。
Unfortunately, that with an enormous failure.
不幸的是，这是一个巨大的失败。
Well, first they used them as chairs.
嗯，首先他们把它们用作椅子。
They would sit on them.
他们会坐在上面。
They would carry too heavy stuff on it.
他们会在上面搬运太重的东西。
They were being used for different things that is appropriate for them, in school as bookshelves.
它们被用来做适合他们的不同东西，在学校里用作书架。
Right?
正确的？
And they got lost.
他们迷路了。
Jean-maurice Buteau Well, a lot of them got broken.
让-莫里斯·布托 嗯，其中很多都坏了。
When you talk to Jean-Maurice about the crate problem, it seems confusing why this would ever be a problem in the first place.
当您与让-莫里斯谈论板条箱问题时，您似乎很困惑为什么这首先会成为一个问题。
Just tell the farmers, hey, if you pack your mangoes in these crates, everyone will make twice as much money.
只要告诉农民，嘿，如果你把芒果装在这些板条箱里，每个人都会赚两倍的钱。
And then you actually go to the farms and you meet the farmers and you completely get it.
然后你真的去了农场，见到了农民，你就完全明白了。
Because you meet someone like [?
因为你遇到了像[?
Jealin ?] [?
杰林？] [？
Jermouse ?].
杰鼠？]。
[?
[？
Jealin ?] is that mango farmer from the beginning, the one who needs a canal.
Jealin？]从一开始就是那个芒果农民，那个需要运河的人。
And she lives in Casale where Jean-Maurice went and handed out his crates.
她住在卡萨莱，让-莫里斯曾去那里分发他的板条箱。
She didn't know who he was.
她不知道他是谁。
In fact, it's unclear that [?
事实上，还不清楚[?
Jealin ?] even knew that her mangoes are being sent to America.
Jealin？]甚至知道她的芒果将被送往美国。
Here's what she did know.
这就是她所知道的。
Her trees earned her around $600 a year, $2 a day.
她的树木每年为她赚取约 600 美元，每天 2 美元。
And in Haiti, $2 a day gets you a house made out of cinder block and metal sheets with a dirt floor on a dirt road.
在海地，每天 2 美元可以让你在土路上买到一栋用煤渣块和金属板建造的房子，地板上有泥土。
She can only afford to send one of her two kids to school.
她只能负担两个孩子中的一个上学的费用。
She chose the younger one.
她选择了年轻的那个。
She has no electricity, no running water, no doctor, which makes [?
她没有电，没有自来水，没有医生，这使得[？
Jealin ?] precisely the average Haitian.
Jealin？] 正是普通的海地人。
[JEALIN'S LAUGHTER] It's that laugh.
[JEALIN 的笑声] 就是这样的笑声。
She starts every single sentence with it.
她每一句话都用它开头。
People in the neighborhood will say I love to laugh, I love to joke.
邻居们会说我爱笑，我爱开玩笑。
The loudest, laughing mom with the two most sullen, withdrawn teenagers in all of Haiti.
海地最大声、最爱笑的妈妈，和两个最闷闷、最孤僻的青少年。
I tried and tried.
我试了又试。
And here are the only few words I managed to extract from her oldest daughter.
以下是我从她大女儿那里摘录的仅有的几句话。
She's telling me about her sister's school.
她正在给我讲她姐姐学校的事。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Chana Joffe-Walt Again, daughter.
[说法语]查娜·乔夫-沃尔特 女儿，又来了。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Chana Joffe-Walt Mother.
[说法语] 查娜·乔菲-沃尔特 母亲。
[LAUGHTER] Chana Joffe-Walt [?
[笑声] Chana Joffe-Walt [？
Jealin ?] has no car, no bike, no irrigation, no mattress.
Jealin？]没有汽车，没有自行车，没有灌溉系统，没有床垫。
So for some white guy from Port-au-Prince-- that's how she sees Jean-Maurice-- for him to show up at Jealin's in his jeep and start handing out crates, she's not going to say, oh OK, this is a tool to increase my earning capacity.
因此，对于来自太子港的某个白人——这就是她对让-莫里斯的看法——当他开着吉普车出现在杰林家并开始分发板条箱时，她不会说，哦，好吧，这是提高我赚钱能力的工具。
[?
[？
Jealin ?] doesn't mind bruises on her mangoes.
Jealin？] 不介意她的芒果上有瘀伤。
She doesn't know anyone who does.
她不认识任何这样做的人。
She has no way of even conceptualizing a picky, American consumer.
她甚至无法想象一个挑剔的美国消费者。
If Jean-Maurice is at about the level of a US exporter 50 years ago, [?
如果 Jean-Maurice 大约处于 50 年前美国出口商的水平，[?
Jealin ?] is living in the 1700s, well, with a cell phone.
Jealin ？] 生活在 1700 年代，有手机。
Jean-Maurice realized he was going to need an intermediary, someone who could spend the time to train the farmers how to use the crates, to train them why they should want to use the crates.
让-莫里斯意识到他需要一个中间人，一个可以花时间培训农民如何使用板条箱、培训他们为什么要使用板条箱的人。
Basically, someone who can help the farmers accommodate the needs of people living in the 21st century, people these farmers have never met before and can't imagine.
基本上，有人可以帮助农民满足生活在 21 世纪的人们的需求，这些农民以前从未见过也无法想象。
And here is where Jean-Maurice hooked up with one of those 10,000 NGOs in Haiti-- non-governmental organizations.
在这里，让-莫里斯与海地 10,000 个非政府组织之一——非政府组织建立了联系。
Lots of them specialize in training small farmers in agricultural techniques.
他们中的许多人专门为小农提供农业技术培训。
In fact, many are focused specifically on mangoes, because study after study shows that mangoes are one of the greatest areas of potential growth for Haiti.
事实上，许多人都特别关注芒果，因为一项又一项的研究表明，芒果是海地最大的潜在增长领域之一。
So there's lots of money and there's lots of specialists ready to help those mango farmers.
因此，有很多资金和很多专家准备帮助那些芒果种植者。
And here is where we begin to see what those 10,000 organizations are up against.
从这里我们开始了解这 10,000 个组织所面临的挑战。
Now Jean-Maurice-- like a surprising number of Haitians-- does not like those NGOs.
现在让·莫里斯——和数量惊人的海地人一样——不喜欢这些非政府组织。
He says-- and we heard this all the time in Haiti-- those NGOs have been helping for 50 years.
他说——我们在海地一直听到这样的说法——这些非政府组织已经提供了 50 年的帮助。
And every year, Haiti is poorer and the NGOs are richer.
年复一年，海地变得更加贫穷，而非政府组织却变得更加富有。
Well, we are working-- it's the first time I'm working with some NGOs.
嗯，我们正在工作——这是我第一次与一些非政府组织合作。
I've stayed away from them for the longest time, because sometimes I realized that they were causing more damage than good.
我已经远离他们很长时间了，因为有时我意识到他们造成的伤害多于好处。
But throughout the years, I've identified certain ones that seem to want to do some things.
但多年来，我发现某些人似乎想做一些事情。
The one he likes most is called MarChE.
他最喜欢的一个叫MarChE。
Well, it was actually this guy he liked the most, one of the staff named Pierre Brunache.
嗯，实际上他最喜欢的就是这个人，其中一位名叫皮埃尔·布鲁纳什（Pierre Brunache）的员工。
Jean-Maurice liked that Pierre grew up in Haiti, even though Pierre lives in D.C. now.
让-莫里斯喜欢皮埃尔在海地长大，尽管皮埃尔现在住在华盛顿特区。
So Mango Man calls Pierre and says, hey, I can't get these mango farmers to use plastic crates.
因此，Mango Man 打电话给皮埃尔说，嘿，我无法让这些芒果种植者使用塑料板条箱。
You're the expert.
你是专家。
Can you help me?
你能帮助我吗？
And Pierre says-- Pierre Brunache I didn't think it was difficult at all.
皮埃尔说——皮埃尔·布鲁纳什 我认为这一点也不困难。
Jean-Maurice thought, great.
让-莫里斯心想，太好了。
Chana Joffe-Walt And then Pierre went on.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 然后皮埃尔继续说道。
It's just a matter of getting the land, provide the technical assistance.
这只是获得土地、提供技术援助的问题。
I never thought it was something difficult.
我从来不认为这是一件困难的事情。
This is where Jean-Maurice gets nervous.
这就是让-莫里斯感到紧张的地方。
Getting land?
获得土地？
Technical assistance?
技术援助？
Pierre explained.
皮埃尔解释道。
You can't just hand out crates to thousands of dispersed farmers.
你不能只是向成千上万分散的农民分发板条箱。
You need a central place with just a simple structure.
您需要一个结构简单的中心位置。
Picture a carport, a quarter acre of land, with a hose.
想象一个车库，占地四分之一英亩，有一根软管。
Farmers will bring their mangoes, learn how to pack the crates correctly, how to wash the mangoes.
农民们将带来他们的芒果，学习如何正确包装板条箱，如何清洗芒果。
Pierre says, we have some rules about this because we've done this in other places.
皮埃尔说，我们对此有一些规则，因为我们在其他地方也这样做过。
We've seen what works and what doesn't.
我们已经看到了什么有效，什么无效。
And when you team up with an NGO, you have to follow their rules.
当你与非政府组织合作时，你必须遵守他们的规则。
So, if Mango Man wants crates, he has to find a farmer with some land that they can build the mango carport on.
因此，如果芒果人想要板条箱，他必须找到一个有土地的农民，他们可以在上面建造芒果车棚。
To which Jean-Maurice replied, have you ever met a Haitian farmer?
让-莫里斯回答说，你见过海地农民吗？
Just imagine.
想象一下。
You are a small farmer and you own that piece of land.
你是一个小农，你拥有那块土地。
That's all you have.
这就是你所拥有的一切。
To which Pierre replied, and there's one other rule.
皮埃尔回答道，还有另一条规则。
The farmer can't own the land the center will be on.
农民不能拥有中心所在的土地。
They have to donate it.
他们必须捐赠它。
The center will become the economic powerhouse of the community, so you need a neutral place.
该中心将成为社区的经济动力中心，因此您需要一个中立的地方。
You can't let one family own it.
你不能让一个家庭拥有它。
It has to become a cooperative owned by all of the farmers.
它必须成为所有农民所有的合作社。
And so, Jean-Maurice began his campaign to convince some poor farmer to give up some of his precious land.
于是，让-莫里斯开始了他的运动，说服一些贫穷的农民放弃他的一些宝贵的土地。
He called someone he knew in Casale to find out who might have some land.
他给卡萨莱的一个认识的人打电话，询问谁可能拥有一些土地。
The guy talked to his cousin, [?
那家伙和他的表弟说话，[？
Jealin, ?] the one with the laugh.
Jealin，？] 那个笑的人。
[?
[？
Jealin's ?] family has a very nice piece of land in a great spot, near the road and near the mango farms.
Jealin 的 ?] 家族拥有一块非常好的土地，位置优越，靠近道路，靠近芒果农场。
Now, this is where the mission to get some mango farmers a few plastic crates goes from involved to complicated.
现在，为一些芒果农民提供一些塑料箱的任务从复杂变得复杂。
Because the thing is, the land was passed down from a great-great-grandfather.
因为事实是，这片土地是从曾曾祖父那里传承下来的。
Maybe a great-great-great-grandfather, nobody remembers exactly.
也许是一位曾曾曾祖父，没有人确切记得。
The point is, a whole lot of cousins have equal claim to the land.
关键是，很多表兄弟姐妹对这片土地拥有同等的所有权。
[?
[？
Jealin ?] called a meeting, gathered her family together to decide whether or not they wanted to donate the land.
Jealin？] 召开了一次会议，召集了她的家人一起决定是否要捐赠土地。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Translator Where we met, there's a big tree.
[说法语] 翻译 我们见面的地方有一棵大树。
We have a lot of shadow.
我们身上有很多阴影。
It's cool there.
那里很酷。
Then we sit down on some chairs around the tree.
然后我们坐在树周围的一些椅子上。
How many people?
有多少人？
Translator [SPEAKING FRENCH]
翻译[法语]
60 or 80 people all sat under this tamarind tree?
60 或 80 个人都坐在这棵罗望子树下？
Really?
真的吗？
A big, big tree.
一棵很大很大的树。
Adam Davidson Everyone, all the cousins started asking questions.
亚当·戴维森 大家，所有的堂兄弟姐妹都开始提问。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Adam Davidson Who is this white guy from the capital?
[法语] Adam Davidson 这个来自首都的白人是谁？
Why doesn't he buy our land?
他为什么不买我们的土地？
Adam Davidson What if he never does anything with it?
亚当·戴维森（Adam Davidson）如果他从未用它做任何事怎么办？
We're going to give away all our land?
我们要放弃所有的土地吗？
What will we leave for our children?
我们将为我们的孩子留下什么？
Everyone, all the 60, must agree.
每个人，所有 60 岁的人，都必须同意。
And then nine of them will sign for everyone.
然后其中九人将为所有人签名。
There were factions, big disagreements.
派别林立，分歧很大。
For a while, Jealin's brother was a holdout.
有一段时间，杰林的兄弟一直在坚持。
So were the loud cousins, who nobody likes, who left town a while ago but came back when they heard someone was interested in the land.
那些吵闹的表兄弟也是如此，没有人喜欢他们，他们不久前离开了小镇，但当他们听说有人对这片土地感兴趣时又回来了。
So many meetings under that tamarind tree.
那棵罗望子树下有很多会议。
Jean-Maurice drove in for many of them.
让-莫里斯开车送他们中的许多人进来。
It took months.
花了几个月的时间。
It took months.
花了几个月的时间。
I didn't go everyday.
我没有每天都去。
We held meetings here.
我们在这里举行会议。
I went there.
我去了那里。
And their family came here, now they're doing it with the land.
他们的家人来到这里，现在他们正在土地上做事。
So, we've got the land.
这样，我们就有了土地。
We can get those crates here.
我们可以在这里拿到那些板条箱。
Training.
训练。
Those mangoes will be beautiful.
那些芒果会很漂亮。
The farmers will start earning twice as much, so will Jean-Maurice.
农民的收入将增加两倍，让-莫里斯也将如此。
He calls the NGO and says, all right guys, you can start building the center.
他打电话给非政府组织并说，好吧，你们可以开始建设该中心了。
The NGO says, great, we just need to see a copy of the deed.
非政府组织说，太好了，我们只需要看一份契约副本即可。
The deed.
行为。
So, Jean-Maurice goes back to the mango farmer with a quick, simple request.
因此，让-莫里斯回到芒果农那里，提出了一个快速、简单的请求。
The family had acquired the land from somebody else.
这家人从别人那里获得了土地。
They never did the papers, but they had their understanding.
他们从未做过论文，但他们有自己的理解。
So these papers first had to be transferred from the original owner to this family.
所以这些文件首先得从原主人那里转移到这个家庭。
Nobody knew who the original owner was, who sold the land to Jealin's great-great-grandfather.
没有人知道原来的主人是谁，他把土地卖给了杰林的曾曾祖父。
Right.
正确的。
Nobody knew who had the deed now.
现在没有人知道谁拥有这份契约。
But finally, [?
但最后，[?
Jealin's ?] brother remembered, wait, there was that uncle who always kept papers, the guy who left Haiti a while ago.
Jealin的？]哥哥想起来了，等等，还有那个总是保存文件的叔叔，那个不久前离开海地的家伙。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Chana Joffe-Walt The person who had the paper is in New York?
[法语] Chana Joffe-Walt 持有这份报纸的人在纽约吗？
New York.
纽约。
Chana Joffe-Walt How did you get the paper from him?
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 你是怎么从他那里得到这篇论文的？
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Translator Someone who this person-- who is living in New York-- trusts, came with the paper.
[说法语] 翻译 这个住在纽约的人信任的人带来了这张纸。
The brother tells me, that guy sent the paper from his basement in New York with someone he trusts to Haiti.
兄弟告诉我，那家伙把报纸从纽约的地下室和他信任的人一起寄到了海地。
So after weeks and weeks of waiting, they get the paper.
经过几周的等待，他们收到了论文。
But it turns out, to transfer a deed in Haiti involves, literally, hundreds of steps and hundreds of dollars.
但事实证明，在海地转让一份契约实际上需要数百步和数百美元。
Transfer of land deed was not in the budget, and if there's one rule every NGO sticks to it's, you do not change the budget.
土地契约的转让不在预算中，如果每个非政府组织都遵守一项规则，那么您就不会改变预算。
It has to go through this process, it had to go through this process, we had to put it in the budget.
它必须经历这个过程，它必须经历这个过程，我们必须把它放在预算中。
I said, well, we had to put it in the budget, but you know, there are sometimes things that occur that-- you know, I'm not God.
我说，好吧，我们必须把它纳入预算，但你知道，有时会发生一些事情 - 你知道，我不是上帝。
I don't know every little detail of it.
我不知道它的每一个小细节。
It's like, Hilary Clinton has to approve it at the State Department.
就像希拉里·克林顿必须得到国务院的批准一样。
Can I just remind everyone, we're talking about getting some farmers a few plastic crates?
我可以提醒大家，我们正在讨论为一些农民提供一些塑料箱吗？
Crates that they want, that Mango Man wants to just give them, that the NGO wants them to have.
他们想要的板条箱，芒果人想给他们的，非政府组织希望他们拥有的。
But to get those crates to the village of Casale, 60 farmers had to donate some precious land.
但为了将这些板条箱运到卡萨莱村，60 名农民必须捐赠一些宝贵的土地。
And they did it.
他们做到了。
Mango Man had to trust an NGO.
芒果人必须信任非政府组织。
And he did it.
他做到了。
MarChE-- the NGO-- had to be flexible and pay for something that wasn't in the budget.
MarChE——非政府组织——必须灵活地支付预算之外的费用。
And they did it.
他们做到了。
Together, all these people had to overcome more than a century of legal confusion, and they did it.
所有这些人必须共同克服一个多世纪的法律混乱，他们做到了。
Success.
成功。
They get to the final, last step.
他们到达了最后一步。
December, 2009, a year and a half after they began.
2009 年 12 月，即他们开始一年半后。
[?
[？
Jealin ?] and the other farmers form into a cooperative that would own and operate the crate center.
Jealin？] 和其他农民组成了一个合作社，拥有并经营板条箱中心。
They did that.
他们这样做了。
They took all the paperwork, that very final document one last time into Port-au-Prince and delivered it to the government.
他们最后一次将所有文件，即最后的文件带到太子港，并将其交给政府。
This all happened at the very end of last year.
这一切都发生在去年底。
And then on January 12 came the earthquake.
然后1月12日发生了地震。
The document that recognizes them is at the Ministry of Social Affairs.
承认他们的文件位于社会事务部。
The Ministry of Social Affairs has been flattened like a pancake.
社会部已经像煎饼一样被压扁了。
Those certain documents are in the pile of rubble at the ministry, under the rubble.
这些特定文件就在该部的废墟堆里，在废墟下面。
It was several weeks before Jean-Maurice could even bring himself to go back to Casale to visit the farmers.
几周后，让-莫里斯才鼓起勇气返回卡萨莱看望农民。
It wasn't clear if the earthquake destroyed the crates project entirely, or just set it back months, maybe years.
目前还不清楚地震是否完全摧毁了板条箱项目，或者只是让其推迟了几个月，甚至几年。
But as survivors started to think about their future, they started asking this question we'd hear every now and then-- usually after someone apologized for even thinking it.
但当幸存者开始思考他们的未来时，他们开始问这个我们时不时听到的问题——通常是在有人因为这么想而道歉之后。
Was the earthquake the best thing that could've ever happened to Haiti?
地震是海地发生过的最好的事情吗？
The argument goes like this, the world is now focused on Haiti like never before.
争论是这样的，世界现在前所未有地关注海地。
There's lots of money coming in.
有很多钱进来。
Before this, you had those 10,000 NGOs working independently on little projects, making slow progress, maybe, if at all.
在此之前，这 10,000 个非政府组织独立开展小项目，进展缓慢，也许，如果有的话。
But what if now there is an opportunity to take all the attention, all the money, and work together like never before?
但如果现在有机会以前所未有的方式吸引所有的注意力、所有的资金并一起工作呢？
What if this is the shot-- instead of solving one small problem at a time-- to address all the country's problems all at once.
如果这不是一次解决一个小问题，而是一次解决国家所有问题的机会，结果会怎样呢？
Think about [?
想想[?
Jealin ?] and her mangoes.
Jealin？]和她的芒果。
Her problems go way beyond those plastic crates.
她的问题远远超出了那些塑料板条箱的范围。
Remember, she needs a canal.
请记住，她需要一条运河。
And while we're at it, she needs a road.
当我们这样做时，她需要一条路。
Once her mangoes get on the truck, they go down this crazy, choppy dirt road.
一旦她的芒果上了卡车，它们就会沿着这条疯狂、崎岖不平的土路行驶。
In the rainy season, sometimes the road isn't even there.
在雨季，有时甚至没有路。
She really needs a paved road.
她确实需要一条铺好的路。
But then, if there's a lot more trucks carrying a lot more mangoes, the Haitian port can't handle that.
但是，如果有更多的卡车运载更多的芒果，海地港口就无法处理。
Haiti's main seaport is really old.
海地的主要海港确实很古老。
And they'd need to buy new equipment, which means a better banking system to give loans and more professional folks to operate things--
他们需要购买新设备，这意味着有更好的银行系统来提供贷款，以及更专业的人员来操作——
Which means better education to train those professional folks, and while we're at it, health, hospitals.
这意味着需要更好的教育来培训这些专业人员，而我们在这方面的工作，还有健康、医院。
[?
[？
Jealin's ?] brother can't help her on the farm because he's really sick.
Jealin 的？] 哥哥不能在农场帮助她，因为他病得很厉害。
She thinks he has malaria.
她认为他患有疟疾。
Thinks.
认为。
She doesn't know because there's no doctor around to ask.
她不知道，因为周围没有医生可以询问。
If all that seems like a lot for the world to take on, seriously, we went to the place where this is truly the ambition.
如果这一切对世界来说似乎是一个很大的负担，说真的，我们已经到达了真正雄心勃勃的地方。
We're in a conference room in a new hotel on a hill outside Port-au-Prince where experts from all over the world are sitting around foldable tables and trying to figure out how to do every one of those things and more.
我们在太子港郊外一座小山上的一家新酒店的会议室里，来自世界各地的专家围坐在折叠桌旁，试图弄清楚如何做每一件事情以及更多事情。
They're trying to figure out how much it would cost to address all of Haiti's problems at once.
他们正试图算出一次性解决海地的所有问题需要多少钱。
Experts are here from the U.N., the World Bank, from all over the world, doing the thing experts do, staring at Excel spreadsheets and writing assessments.
来自联合国、世界银行和世界各地的专家们聚集在这里，做着专家该做的事情，盯着 Excel 电子表格并撰写评估。
And they're all in these tables divided into groups.
它们都在这些表中，并被分成几组。
There's education, water, infrastructure.
有教育、水、基础设施。
And Adam, you and I go table to table asking, what are you going to do for [?
亚当，你和我挨桌询问，你打算做什么[？
Jealin?
杰林？
?] And everyone has really long, in depth answers.
？] 每个人都有很长、很深入的答案。
Infrastructure.
基础设施。
Well first, if she has a better telephone link in her village, that is the first step to sell her products.
首先，如果她所在的村庄有更好的电话连接，那就是销售她的产品的第一步。
If the roads are improved, again, a better way to sell the products.
如果道路得到改善，这又是销售产品的更好方式。
The health table tells us they're working on a plan for hospitals in her area.
健康表告诉我们他们正在制定她所在地区的医院计划。
Education table?
学历表？
They're working on a plan for more free schools.
他们正在制定一项建立更多免费学校的计划。
At which point, a Trinidadian woman grabs my arm to tell me, kids need more than schools, you know?
这时，一位特立尼达妇女抓住我的手臂告诉我，孩子们需要的不仅仅是学校，你知道吗？
They need activities, dance classes, that we are offering over at this table.
他们需要我们在这张桌子上提供的活动、舞蹈课程。
And over at the environment table, they're offering canals.
在环境表上，他们提供了运河。
So you have-- right here in your grid-- millions of dollars for canals.
因此，就在您的网格中，您有数百万美元用于修建运河。
That's exactly the thing that she wants.
这正是她想要的东西。
She wants a canal.
她想要一条运河。
Yeah, so hopefully she'll get some.
是的，所以希望她能得到一些。
Hopefully.
希望如此。
Hopefully your computer will result in her getting a canal.
希望你的电脑能让她得到运河。
We are hoping so.
我们希望如此。
Chana Joffe-Walt So the people in this room have their plans.
Chana Joffe-Walt 所以这个房间里的人都有他们的计划。
And the world is going to spend billions of dollars on those plans.
世界将在这些计划上花费数十亿美元。
But now that we've seen how complicated it is to do something basic like get some crates into the hands of some mango farmers, it raises the question, what'll it take for all that money to do something?
但现在我们已经看到做一些基本的事情是多么复杂，比如把一些板条箱交到一些芒果农民手中，这就提出了一个问题，需要这么多钱才能做一些事情吗？
To actually result in canals and roads and electricity and crates actually getting to [?
真正导致运河、道路、电力和板条箱真正到达[？
Jealin?
杰林？
?]
？]
So, let's say you're the US government.
假设您是美国政府。
You're committed-- as the US government is-- to spending lots of money rebuilding Haiti.
你们和美国政府一样，致力于投入大量资金重建海地。
You basically have two choices.
你基本上有两个选择。
Chana, the first please.
查娜，第一个请。
Number one.
第一。
You could hire Haitian companies and American companies do build things.
你可以雇佣海地公司，美国公司也可以建造东西。
The Haitian companies will be the Haitian elite.
海天企业将是海天精英。
The American companies will leave after a year or two.
美国公司将在一两年后离开。
And if you're Hilary Clinton, in a year-- the anniversary of the earthquake-- you can point to a bunch of successes, big ones.
如果你是希拉里·克林顿，一年后，即地震周年纪念日，你可以指出一系列重大成功。
Hospitals rebuilt and roads that are way better than any Haiti has seen.
重建的医院和道路比海地任何地方都好。
If you're [?
如果你是[?
Jealin, ?] you probably still don't know how to pack your mangoes into crates and you probably aren't lucky enough to have your tiny piece of land chosen for a tiny canal either.
Jealin，？]您可能仍然不知道如何将芒果装入板条箱，而且您可能也没有足够幸运能够选择您的一小块土地来建造一条小运河。
So, Adam, let's look at number two.
那么，亚当，让我们看看第二点。
Number two, you do what development experts call capacity building.
第二，你要做发展专家所说的能力建设。
You teach the people of Haiti how to do all these things.
您教海地人民如何做所有这些事情。
You use this rebuilding process to give Haiti the ability to build itself.
你们利用这个重建过程让海地有能力自我建设。
Which means, do for [?
这意味着，为 [?
Jealin, ?] what America did for farmers more than 100 years ago, create a class of ag-extension agents who go to farms and figure out the best solution for each one, train farmers and laborers how to do things like build proper canals, create small banks to lend the money to farmers for this kind of investment, and you teach [?
Jealin，？] 美国在 100 多年前为农民做了什么，创建了一个农业延伸代理阶层，他们去农场为每个人找出最好的解决方案，培训农民和劳工如何做一些事情，比如建造适当的运河，创建小银行向农民提供此类投资的贷款，然后你教[？
Jealin ?] how to pack her produce correctly, to wash it and to sell it directly to the exporter.
Jealin ？] 如何正确包装她的产品、清洗产品并将其直接出售给出口商。
This option, capacity building, do I even need to say it?
这个选项，能力建设，还需要我说吗？
It takes a long time and it's really, really hard.
这需要很长时间，而且真的非常非常难。
You need foreign money and you need Haitians to believe in the projects and to participate fully.
你需要外国资金，你需要海地人相信这些项目并充分参与。
And you need NGOs that are willing to stay for as long as it takes, which brings us to a classic problem with NGOs and foreign assistance.
而且你需要愿意长期留下来的非政府组织，这给我们带来了非政府组织和外国援助的一个典型问题。
How you doing?
你好吗？
Jean-maurice Buteau I'm OK.
让-莫里斯·布托 我很好。
I had a long day.
我度过了漫长的一天。
I had a very long day.
我度过了漫长的一天。
Several months after the earthquake, we meet up with Jean-Maurice at his cousin's hotel, the same place where the world's experts gathered together to figure out how much it would cost to build Haiti out of poverty.
地震发生几个月后，我们在让-莫里斯表弟的酒店见到了他，世界各地的专家都聚集在这里，共同探讨让海地摆脱贫困需要多少资金。
The conference room has emptied out and Jean-Maurice-- Mango Man-- told us he got a call earlier in the week from MarChE, the NGO that was helping train [?
会议室已经空了，让-莫里斯（芒果人）告诉我们，他本周早些时候接到了 MarChE 的电话，MarChE 是一个帮助培训的非政府组织 [？
Jealin ?] and the other farmers.
Jealin？]和其他农民。
USAID cut their funding.
美国国际开发署削减了资金。
MarChE is closing their doors.
MarChE 即将关门。
Jean-Maurice shakes his head.
让-莫里斯摇摇头。
Again, that's the habit.
再说一遍，这就是习惯。
It's the norm.
这是常态。
They start something, they don't finish it.
他们开始做某事，却没有完成它。
These NGOs, when they come on the field they make promises and they don't finish up and they don't deliver.
这些非政府组织，当他们来到现场时，他们做出承诺，但他们没有完成，也没有兑现。
This was confusing.
这很令人困惑。
There was just a major earthquake and everyone wants to help Haiti.
刚刚发生了一场大地震，每个人都想帮助海地。
People are sending money, texting money, and USAID is cancelling programs?
人们正在汇款、发短信，而美国国际开发署正在取消项目？
I called USAID and our conversation with confusing too.
我给美国国际开发署打电话，我们的谈话也很混乱。
This is Anthony Chan.
这是安东尼·陈。
He's deputy director for USAID in Haiti, and at first he tells me, technically, they're not closing the program.
他是美国国际开发署驻海地的副主任，一开始他告诉我，从技术上讲，他们不会关闭该项目。
They're just letting its funding run out.
他们只是让它的资金耗尽。
Then he tells me that with all this new money after the earthquake, they need to reassess all their programs and think bigger than little ones like MarChE.
然后他告诉我，地震后有了这些新资金，他们需要重新评估所有计划，并比像 MarChE 这样的小项目思考得更大。
And finally he tells me, OK, the program is going away, but it's not his fault.
最后他告诉我，好吧，该程序即将消失，但这不是他的错。
I mean, it's not us deciding.
我的意思是，这不是我们决定的。
We have bosses in Washington and they are the ones who make those decisions.
我们在华盛顿有老板，他们是做出这些决定的人。
I mean, eventually they're going to communicate that to us and we'll get the money and we'll begin to work in those areas.
我的意思是，最终他们会向我们传达这一点，我们会得到资金，然后开始在这些领域开展工作。
And the response to the farmers, we are not going away forever.
对于农民的回应是，我们不会永远消失。
We are going to be back.
我们会回来的。
Maybe the partners are going to be different, but she shouldn't feel abandoned.
也许合作伙伴会有所不同，但她不应该感到被抛弃。
The actors may change, but the movie and the plot will still go on.
演员可能会改变，但电影和情节仍然会继续下去。
That movie has been going on for more than half a century.
这部电影已经上映了半个多世纪了。
There's this recent report called "Haiti in the Balance," which documents how time after time, USAID programs are started and then-- before they can actually help anyone-- a decision is made in Washington to send aid in a whole new direction.
最近有一份名为《平衡中的海地》的报告，记录了美国国际开发署的项目如何一次又一次地启动，然后在它们能够真正帮助任何人之前，华盛顿做出决定向一个全新的方向提供援助。
The two Marche staff we met left Haiti a couple of weeks ago.
我们遇到的两名马尔凯员工几周前离开了海地。
Mango season has opened without crates.
芒果季已经开始，没有板条箱。
And this, of course, is how you can continue to have 10,000 NGOs in a country that keeps getting poorer.
当然，这就是在一个日益贫穷的国家继续拥有 10,000 个非政府组织的方法。
Chana Joffe-Walt and Adam Davidson are part of the Planet Money team.
Chana Joffe-Walt 和 Adam Davidson 是 Planet Money 团队的成员。
If you like this kind of story-- economics, but interesting.
如果你喜欢这种故事——经济学，但很有趣。
You can be getting it twice a week on the Planet Money podcast and at their blog, www.npr.org/money.
您可以每周在 Planet Money 播客和他们的博客 www.npr.org/money 上获得该信息。
It's a co-production between our program and NPR news.
这是我们的节目和 NPR 新闻的联合制作。
Coming up, a new definition of atheist during an earthquake.
即将推出地震期间无神论者的新定义。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
From Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，来自芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台。
This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
这个美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "Island Time," stories about what happens next in Haiti, now that the world is flooding it with money and help.
今天的节目“岛屿时间”讲述了海地接下来会发生什么，现在世界正在向海地提供大量资金和帮助。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act TWO, Compound Fracture.
第二幕，复合骨折。
According to the US State Department, there are about 40,000 American citizens who live in Haiti year round.
据美国国务院统计，约有4万名美国公民常年居住在海地。
These are business people, NGOs, missionaries.
他们是商人、非政府组织、传教士。
In the 1980s and 1990s, Apricot Irving's family was among them.
20世纪80年代和90年代，杏子欧文家族就是其中之一。
Apricot's parents were missionaries, agricultural missionaries.
杏子的父母都是传教士，农业传教士。
They did erosion control farming, reforestation projects.
他们开展了侵蚀控制农业和重新造林项目。
They lived in a town called Limbe, about 150 miles north of Port-au-Prince.
他们住在太子港以北约 150 英里的林贝镇。
It's been 20 years since her family left, but her parents still go back to the north of Haiti every couple of years.
她的家人离开已经20年了，但她的父母仍然每隔几年回到海地北部一次。
And in March, Apricot went with them to see how people are building a new Haiti and how different that effort is from when she was a kid.
三月份，阿普里科特和他们一起去看看人们如何建设新的海地，以及这种努力与她小时候有多么不同。
The missionary compound where I grew up-- that's what we called it, the compound-- is about 15 miles away from where Columbus sank the Santa Maria in 1492.
我长大的传教士大院——我们就是这么称呼它的——大院——距 1492 年哥伦布沉没圣玛丽亚号的地方约 15 英里。
Columbus was just the first of many foreigners with big dreams of how to improve Haiti.
哥伦布只是众多怀揣着如何改善海地的伟大梦想的外国人中的第一个。
We heard a lot about Columbus growing up on the compound because Dr. Hodges-- who ran the missionary hospital in Limbe-- was a huge fan.
我们听说了很多关于哥伦布在这个大院长大的故事，因为经营林贝教会医院的霍奇斯医生是他的忠实粉丝。
When I was a teenager, the compound had everything we needed, a missionary school, a TV room, friends.
当我十几岁的时候，院子里有我们需要的一切，一所教会学校，一个电视室，朋友。
But when I went back this time to visit, it was like a ghost town, a ghost town with a very loud generator.
但当我这次回去参观时，那就像一个鬼城，一个发电机声音非常大的鬼城。
It is kind of creepy in here.
这里有点令人毛骨悚然。
There's nobody around.
周围没有人。
There's all these houses that used to be full of missionary families and kids running around and there's not really anybody else.
所有这些房子过去都挤满了传教士家庭和跑来跑去的孩子，实际上没有其他人了。
There's Joanna.
那里是乔安娜。
Hi Joanna, how are you?
嗨，乔安娜，你好吗？
You look pretty good.
你看起来不错。
Apricot Irving You look pretty good too.
杏子欧文 你看起来也很不错。
Travelling all over the world.
环游世界。
Feel great as long as I don't walk.
只要我不走路就感觉很好。
Dr. Hodges died 15 years ago, but his wife Joanna still spends a lot of time in Limbe.
霍奇斯医生已于 15 年前去世，但他的妻子乔安娜仍然在林贝度过了很多时间。
She's 87 years old and she's formidable.
她已经87岁了，精神矍铄。
Everyone thought she'd retire in 2004 when three guys with guns broke into her house.
2004 年，当三个持枪男子闯入她家时，每个人都以为她会退休。
She ended up chasing them down the driveway as they tried to steal her car.
当他们试图偷她的车时，她最终沿着车道追赶他们。
One guy broke her arm by beating her with a stick.
一名男子用棍子殴打她，打断了她的手臂。
The watchman later found that the thing that he'd hit me with, it was the walking stick that my husband used to use.
后来看守人发现他打我的东西是我丈夫以前用过的手杖。
But anyway, my arm is OK now.
但无论如何，我的手臂现在已经好了。
You can't even see the scar.
你连伤疤都看不到。
What did you tell the men when they came to your house?
当他们来到你家时，你对他们说了什么？
I told them, if they killed me, that was all right.
我告诉他们，如果他们杀了我，那也没关系。
Because I knew that God would take care of me, and that I'd come to Haiti mainly to tell the Haitians about God.
因为我知道神会照顾我，我来海地主要是为了向海地人讲述神。
And I knew that he had a place for me.
我知道他有适合我的位置。
And I said, "Does he have a place for you?" Because I said, "I don't think he would want you to be doing what you're doing because it's not very nice." They said, "Shut her up," and they tied a cloth around my mouth.
我说：“他有空位给你吗？”因为我说，“我认为他不希望你做你正在做的事情，因为这不是很好。”他们说：“让她闭嘴。”然后他们用一块布封住我的嘴。
[LAUGHTER]
[笑声]
I can't believe she can laugh about this now.
我不敢相信她现在还能笑起来。
But maybe that's what spending 52 years in Haiti will do for you.
但也许这就是在海地度过 52 年的经历。
I'm really fond of Joanna.
我真的很喜欢乔安娜。
I've known her since I was six years old and she's like a grandma to me.
我从六岁起就认识她了，她对我来说就像奶奶一样。
She epitomizes the old way of doing aid work, sort of 19th century benevolence.
她体现了旧式的援助工作方式，有点像 19 世纪的仁慈。
The foreigners-- usually whites-- lead the way, set an example, do whatever they can, and hope the Haitians catch on.
外国人（通常是白人）带路，树立榜样，尽其所能，并希望海地人能够理解。
In other words, the foreigners are always in charge.
换句话说，外国人总是在掌控一切。
It sounds a little crazy, but until a few years ago, Joanna kept the keys to the medical supply storage room on a chain around her neck.
这听起来有点疯狂，但直到几年前，乔安娜还把医疗用品储藏室的钥匙挂在脖子上的链子上。
When the Haitian doctors needed to perform an emergency surgery in the middle of the night, they had to wake her up.
当海地医生需要在半夜进行紧急手术时，他们不得不叫醒她。
And, because she was in her 80s, carry her over the mud puddles to open it.
而且，因为她已经 80 多岁了，所以要把她抱过泥坑去打开它。
The hospital is still run by Joanna's son, even though he now lives in Florida and hasn't been to Haiti in years.
这家医院仍然由乔安娜的儿子经营，尽管他现在住在佛罗里达州，并且已经很多年没有去过海地了。
So with all the different aid organizations coming into Haiti right now to help out with earthquake relief, is there any advice that you would give to somebody who has never been to Haiti before?
那么，随着所有不同的援助组织现在进入海地帮助抗震救灾，您对以前从未去过海地的人有什么建议吗？
I would say that, don't try to change the Haitian people.
我想说的是，不要试图改变海地人民。
Try to deal with him and try to understand them.
尝试与他打交道并尝试理解他们。
And take them as you would other people.
像对待其他人一样对待他们。
They're people and they need help.
他们是人，他们需要帮助。
They look at life differently than we do.
他们对生活的看法与我们不同。
But that doesn't mean that they don't deserve help.
但这并不意味着他们不值得帮助。
Sometimes they're grateful and sometimes they're not.
有时他们很感激，有时则不然。
Far fewer patients come to the hospital now than when I lived here for a few reasons.
由于某些原因，现在来医院的病人比我住在这里时少了很多。
People really loved Dr. Hodges, and when he died, things changed.
人们真的很爱霍奇斯博士，当他去世后，事情发生了变化。
The hospital got rid of its old payment system, where you were offered credit if you couldn't pay right away.
医院废除了旧的支付系统，如果您无法立即付款，就会向您提供信用额度。
Instead, they started charging a fee upfront for a consultation.
相反，他们开始预先收取咨询费用。
It's not much, about $1.
不多，1块钱左右。
But it was more than a lot of people could afford.
但这超出了很多人的承受能力。
People resented it.
人们对此表示不满。
Things got ugly for a while.
一时间事情变得很糟糕。
Graffiti, threats, some protests.
涂鸦、威胁、一些抗议。
Also, there's more competition than there used to be.
此外，竞争也比以前更加激烈。
The number of small Haitian run clinics have opened up that didn't exist 20 years ago.
海地经营的小型诊所数量在 20 年前还不存在。
The hospital feels pretty empty right now.
医院现在感觉很空旷。
But these clinics are jammed with patients.
但这些诊所挤满了病人。
This is Steve James, Dr. Steve James.
我是史蒂夫·詹姆斯，史蒂夫·詹姆斯博士。
I grew up with his kids at the missionary compound in Limbe.
我和他的孩子们一起在林贝的传教士大院长大。
For a while, Steve was Medical Director at the hospital there, the Hodges Hospital.
史蒂夫曾一度担任当地霍奇斯医院的医疗主任。
The work he's doing now is an attempt at something different, a totally different approach to development work.
他现在所做的工作是尝试一些不同的、完全不同的开发工作方法。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Apricot Irving He spends much of his morning greeting people and kissing them.
[说法语] 杏子欧文 他早上的大部分时间都花在与人们打招呼并亲吻他们。
This is how you start the day in Haiti.
这就是您在海地的新一天的开始。
Everyone asks how your family is, how you slept last night.
每个人都问你的家人怎么样，你昨晚睡得怎么样。
You can usually tell who the visiting Americans are, because they're the ones trying to skip the handshakes and get straight to work.
你通常可以分辨出来访的美国人是谁，因为他们是那些试图跳过握手直接开始工作的人。
But not Steve James.
但史蒂夫·詹姆斯不是。
He's been in Haiti 30 years now.
他在海地已经 30 年了。
Every month, he visits 11 small Haitian clinics, including this one.
每个月，他都会去海地 11 家小型诊所，其中就包括这家诊所。
All the clinics Steve visits are faith-based, community-run organizations, meaning the decisions are made by a board of locals.
史蒂夫访问的所有诊所都是以信仰为基础的社区运营组织，这意味着决策是由当地人组成的委员会做出的。
Steve is not on any of the boards.
史蒂夫不在任何董事会中。
It's kind of a new state of affairs here.
这是一种新的情况。
He's a white guy and he's not in charge of anything.
他是一个白人，他不负责任何事情。
Yeah, I'm not a program director.
是的，我不是节目总监。
I don't run anything.
我不运行任何东西。
I just stand by and ask questions and encourage, is all.
我只是站在旁边提出问题并鼓励，仅此而已。
And this is the business office.
这是商务办公室。
He shows me around Ebenezer clinic, which was five miles away from the old missionary hospital in Limbe.
他带我参观了埃比尼泽诊所，该诊所距离林贝的旧教会医院五英里。
It's a small, two story building.
这是一栋小型的两层楼房。
But there are at least 100 people waiting to be seen, both inside the building and outside under a tree.
但至少有 100 人在大楼内和室外的树下等着看。
The clinic has far fewer resources than the hospital.
诊所的资源比医院少得多。
They don't have a surgery wing.
他们没有手术翼。
They don't even have a place for patients to spend the night.
他们甚至没有地方供病人过夜。
But they let you pay what you can and give you credit for the rest.
但他们会让你支付你能支付的费用，并把剩下的部分信用给你。
After the earthquake, they let everyone in for free, not just earthquake victims.
地震发生后，他们免费让所有人进来，而不仅仅是地震灾民。
Even though the clinic was already $8,500 in debt.
尽管诊所已经负债 8,500 美元。
Ah, Dr. Manno, we are on the radio with the medical director.
啊，曼诺医生，我们正在听医疗主任的广播。
Hi.
你好。
Apricot Irving Good morning, Manno.
杏子·欧文 早上好，曼诺。
How was Port-au-Prince?
太子港怎么样？
If anyone's in charge here it's Manno.
如果说这里有谁负责的话，那就是曼诺。
He just got back from doing relief work in Port-au-Prince.
他刚刚从太子港救灾回来。
Manno's a few years older than I am and I've known him since I was 14.
Manno 比我大几岁，我从 14 岁起就认识他了。
Since I last saw him, Manno has become a doctor.
自从我上次见到他以来，曼诺已经成为一名医生。
He's the medical director for this clinic, though some patients still want to see the blonde, the foreigner with the American medical degree, the white guy.
他是这家诊所的医疗主任，尽管有些病人仍然想看金发女郎、拥有美国医学学位的外国人、白人。
It happens while I'm standing there and it's awkward.
当我站在那里时就会发生这种情况，这很尴尬。
A Haitian pastor comes in and asks for an appointment with Steve who's rushing to make another appointment, so he turns to Manno to see if he can do the consultation instead.
一位海地牧师进来要求与史蒂夫预约，史蒂夫正急着进行另一次预约，所以他转向曼诺，看看他是否可以进行咨询。
He doesn't have his chart yet.
他还没有他的图表。
So I don't know if you can see him for me, or--
所以我不知道你能否帮我见见他，或者——
When these people come they want to be seen by you.
当这些人来的时候，他们希望被你看到。
I know, I'm sorry.
我知道，对不起。
Manno Ask him to go home and come when you are here?
曼诺让他回家，你来的时候就过来？
Well, that's the problem.
嗯，这就是问题所在。
I told him today I would be here.
我今天告诉他我会在这里。
Say you are not afraid of, but he has to come back on Monday because--
说你不怕，但他周一必须回来，因为——
You can hear the frustration in Manno's voice.
你可以从 Manno 的声音中听出沮丧。
Because of course, this has happened before.
当然，因为这种情况以前发生过。
It makes Steve uncomfortable.
这让史蒂夫感到不舒服。
I will tell him that I have two doctors better than me, and he can see them.
我会告诉他，我有两个比我更好的医生，他可以看。
Oh here we go, Bonjour, Bonjour.
哦，我们走了，你好，你好。
The baby just came.
宝宝刚来。
A few days before I arrived, Manno had come back to town with a family of earthquake refugees in the back of his truck, including this three-month-old, who Steve's been waiting to see.
在我到达的前几天，曼诺回到了镇上，卡车后座上坐着一群地震难民，其中包括史蒂夫一直在等着见的这个三个月大的孩子。
Her arm looks terrible.
她的手臂看起来很糟糕。
It hangs at a strange angle from her elbow.
它以奇怪的角度悬挂在她的肘部。
She comes in with her aunt and her aunt's sister-in-law.
她和她的姑姑和姑姑的嫂子一起进来。
They said the baby's got diarrhea and they're worried that the baby's dehydrated today.
他们说宝宝腹泻了，担心宝宝今天脱水了。
That's a pretty little baby, baby girl.
这是一个漂亮的小宝贝，宝贝女儿。
Her name is-- she has an unusual name.
她的名字是——她有一个不寻常的名字。
It's Quincy [SPEAKING FRENCH] Kaira.
我是昆西[讲法语]凯拉。
Jacque is her last name.
雅克是她的姓氏。
She was a month old when the earthquake hit and she was trapped under the rebel for two days.
地震发生时，她才一个月大，被叛军困了两天。
Neighbors could hear a baby crying.
邻居们可以听到婴儿的哭声。
What they didn't realize-- until they dug her out-- was that she was cradled in the arms of her dead mother.
他们没有意识到——直到他们把她挖出来——她正被她死去的母亲怀抱在怀里。
Steve thinks she might have survived by nursing.
史蒂夫认为她可能靠护理活了下来。
The women have brought an X-ray of her arm, taken at another rural clinic Steve had sent them to, because Ebenezer doesn't have an X-ray machine.
这些妇女带来了她手臂的 X 光检查，是在史蒂夫送她们去的另一家乡村诊所拍摄的，因为埃比尼泽没有 X 光机。
OK, we don't yet have electricity in the clinic.
好吧，我们诊所还没有通电。
They haven't turned on the generator yet, so--
他们还没有打开发电机，所以——
So in a clinic like this, what do you use electricity for?
那么在这样的诊所里，你用电做什么呢？
Well, for one, right now I need it to look at this X-ray.
嗯，首先，现在我需要它来查看这张 X 光片。
That would be nice.
那太好了。
Otherwise, I have to hold it up to the window here and make my best guess on a window X-ray.
否则，我必须把它举到窗边，通过窗户 X 光来做出最好的猜测。
The X-ray isn't the exact angle he'd asked the technician for.
X 射线并不是他向技术人员询问的确切角度。
So he can't really tell if the elbow's fractured or dislocated, though he suspects both.
所以他无法真正判断肘部是否骨折或脱臼，尽管他怀疑两者都有。
Steve wants to send the baby to another clinic-- an hour and a half away-- to see one of the visiting orthopedic surgeons-- an American who came to help out with earthquake relief.
史蒂夫想把孩子送到另一家诊所——一个半小时的路程——去看一位来访的整形外科医生——一位前来帮助抗震救灾的美国人。
He makes sure to consult with Manno first.
他一定要先咨询曼诺。
What I would like to know is whether-- at this age-- you would want to intervene or you would want to just wait for the baby to be older.
我想知道的是，在这个年龄，您是否愿意进行干预，或者只是等待宝宝长大。
Or, I just would like some help on that.
或者，我只是想要一些帮助。
I guess the best is to have the opinion of the orthopedics.
我想最好是听取骨科的意见。
If Steve had still been director of the hospital in the compound, he could have had everything done at the same place, X-rays, surgery, an overnight room.
如果史蒂夫仍然是院子里医院的院长，他就可以在同一个地方完成所有事情，X光检查、手术、过夜房间。
Instead, he has to send the baby to three different places-- over horrendous roads-- and someone has to pay for all that.
相反，他必须将婴儿送到三个不同的地方——经过可怕的道路——并且必须有人支付所有费用。
It makes you understand why a lot of NGOs still operate the old foreigners in charge way, it's efficient.
这让你明白为什么很多NGO仍然以老外负责的方式运作，效率很高。
This way, the opposite of efficient.
这种方式与高效相反。
But what Steve's doing is that term you heard earlier in the show, capacity building, even though Steve would never call it that.
但史蒂夫所做的就是你在节目早些时候听到的那个术语：能力建设，尽管史蒂夫永远不会这么称呼它。
He calls it, "building community." If you want Haitians to create and sustain their own institutions, this is what it looks like, slow and sometimes cumbersome.
他称之为“建设社区”。如果你想让海地人创建并维持自己的机构，事情就是这样的，缓慢而且有时很麻烦。
But Steve knows the pitfalls of the other model.
但史蒂夫知道另一种模式的缺陷。
When he was in charge of the old missionary hospital, he found the job so stressful that he even considered leaving medicine.
当他负责旧教会医院时，他发现工作压力很大，甚至考虑离开医学界。
He came to a kind of crossroads and had to make a hard choice.
他来到了一个十字路口，必须做出艰难的选择。
We talked about it in the car.
我们在车上谈论了这件事。
The choice really is-- it almost became for me-- an either/or.
选择实际上是——对我来说几乎成了——非此即彼。
On the one hand was that in the face of dysfunction, and in the face of extreme human need, what was required of me was to build a citadel, to become a dictator.
一方面，面对功能失调，面对人类的极端需求，我需要建造一座堡垒，成为一个独裁者。
And in that dictatorship-- benevolent dictatorship-- I could be the cowboy to fix the problems that would bring efficiency, service and security.
在那个独裁统治——仁慈的独裁统治中——我可以成为解决问题的牛仔，从而带来效率、服务和安全。
What's wrong with that?
这有什么问题吗？
Why not become a benevolent dictator?
为什么不成为仁慈的独裁者呢？
The problem that I found with that, is that model creates, in a way, a new slave plantation mentality, where the slaves become dependent on the slave masters.
我发现的问题是，这种模式在某种程度上创造了一种新的奴隶种植园心态，奴隶变得依赖奴隶主。
And in the end, one reaps the fruit of slavery, discontent, anger, violence.
最终，人们收获了奴役、不满、愤怒和暴力的果实。
The choice to then go the other extreme, to purposely work hard at not becoming a dictator-- for the sake of building community-- means that people are going to suffer.
选择走向另一个极端，为了建设社区而刻意努力不成为独裁者，意味着人们将会受苦。
People are going to die.
人们将会死去。
Goods will not be provided.
将不提供货物。
Services will not be rendered.
将不会提供服务。
Here we are praying when there's somebody that needs a C-section and we can't get it for her.
当有人需要剖腹产而我们却无法为她提供时，我们在这里祈祷。
There's a terrible choice.
有一个可怕的选择。
And why is it that, in choosing community, there are these added costs?
为什么在选择社区时会产生这些额外的成本？
Why do people die?
人为什么会死？
Why are the goods not distributed?
为什么货物没有分发？
Because community takes time, perseverance and relationship building.
因为社区需要时间、毅力和建立关系。
Yeah, it drives Americans crazy.
是的，这让美国人发疯。
We're a fix it culture.
我们是修复它的文化。
That's the height of evil probably, from an American cultural point of view, is to not fix a problem when it's right there to fix.
从美国文化的角度来看，最邪恶的可能就是当问题需要解决时却不去解决。
And what's the problem?
还有什么问题呢？
Fix it.
修复它。
The good news-- Steve says-- is that the slow, cumbersome process is working.
史蒂夫说，好消息是这个缓慢而繁琐的过程正在发挥作用。
There's progress.
有进步了。
These clinics are surviving basically on their own, supporting themselves with very little outside help.
这些诊所基本上靠自己生存，几乎不需要外部帮助就能养活自己。
And when the earthquake hit, that progress paid off.
当地震发生时，这些进展得到了回报。
It was Haitians who were on the scene first-- doctors like Manno-- pulling people out of the rubble, distributing water, days before the foreign aid organizations arrived.
在外国援助组织到达的几天前，首先到达现场的是海地人——像曼诺这样的医生——将人们从废墟中救出来，分发水。
Apricot Irving.
杏子·欧文.
She's writing a book about growing up on a missionary compound in Haiti.
她正在写一本关于在海地传教士大院长大的书。
Right now she's looking for a publisher.
现在她正在寻找出版商。
Act Three, "Hait is Destiny." Ben Fountain is a fiction writer who has been going to Haiti two or three times a year for 20 years.
第三幕，“海特就是命运”。本·方丹 (Ben Fountain) 是一位小说作家，20 年来每年都会去海地两到三次。
He has close friends there.
他在那里有亲密的朋友。
He's written short stories set there, based on the things he's seen.
他根据他所看到的事物写了一些短篇小说。
He returned in March to catch up with people.
他三月回来接人。
"Did you think we were dead?" This was the first thing asked me by the 13-year-old daughter of my friend Gary, when I reached them by phone a few days after the quake.
“你以为我们死了吗？”地震发生几天后，当我通过电话联系到朋友加里 (Gary) 13 岁的女儿时，这是他们问我的第一个问题。
"Did you think we were dead?
“你以为我们死了吗？
She said, as soon as she came on the line.
她一接通电话就说道。
And I hesitated, it seemed rude just to say to a child, "Yes, I thought you were dead." But there was a firmness in her voice, a focus and calm that showed she was beyond all the finer points of etiquette.
我犹豫了，对一个孩子说“是的，我以为你死了”似乎很粗鲁。但她的声音里充满了坚定、专注和平静，表明她超越了礼仪的所有细节。
For the past several days, she'd been very possibly dead to her family and friends back in the states.
在过去的几天里，她很可能对她在美国的家人和朋友来说已经死了。
And now she was testing it, probing this other reality, the one where she died on January 12.
现在她正在测试它，探索另一个现实，即她于 1 月 12 日去世的现实。
How would it feel to be dead?
死了会有什么感觉？
What would it mean to exist only in old emails, pictures, the minds of others?
只存在于旧电子邮件、图片或他人的脑海中意味着什么？
Then the phone was passed to her brother, and he wanted to know too.
然后电话就传给了她哥哥，他也想知道。
"Did you think we were dead?" But they hadn't died.
“你以为我们死了吗？”但他们并没有死。
Their house had held and they'd ridden out the quake jammed in a doorway with their parents and uncle, the five of them lurching and pitching in that tight space like shipwrecked survivors tossed in a storm.
他们的房子坚守住了，他们和父母、叔叔一起挤在门口，安然度过了地震，他们五个人在狭小的空间里摇摇晃晃、摇摇晃晃，就像在风暴中遇难的幸存者一样。
But from their front yard, you could look across the neighboring ravine at the remains of 100 houses that hadn't held.
但从他们的前院，你可以看到附近峡谷对面的 100 栋房屋的废墟。
It's like a lobotomy, seeing destruction on this scale.
这就像脑白质切除术，看到如此规模的破坏。
Not just the outsize scale, but the mind-numbing density within the scale.
不仅仅是规模巨大，还有规模内令人麻木的密度。
The sheer sensory overload of detail and texture.
细节和质感的纯粹感官超载。
That football field-sized wilderness of junk and rubble that used to be a trade school, you could find entire geographies of ruin within that expanse.
那片足球场大小的垃圾和瓦砾荒野曾经是一所贸易学校，你可以在这片广阔的土地上找到整个废墟。
Hills, butes, hummocks, valleys and craters, broad flats cut through with twisting gullies, shredded clothes, shoes, papers, mangled furniture, dark oily clumps of decomposing human matter, rebar twisted and raveled like giant spaghetti balls.
山丘、山丘、小丘、山谷和火山口、布满扭曲沟壑的宽阔平地、撕碎的衣服、鞋子、纸张、破碎的家具、腐烂的人类物质的黑色油团、像巨大的意大利面球一样扭曲和散乱的钢筋。
And then something impossible and ridiculous, an easy chair, a thickly upholstered loveseat, perched at the top of a free-standing spiral staircase that spun off into nowhere.
然后是一些不可能和荒谬的东西，一把安乐椅，一张厚软垫的双人沙发，坐落在一个独立的螺旋楼梯的顶部，楼梯旋转到了不知何处。
It didn't make sense.
这没有道理。
Port-au-Prince was making me stupid.
太子港让我变得愚蠢。
"I have a new definition of the word atheist," my friend, a Haitian eye doctor, told me.
“我对无神论者这个词有了新的定义，”我的海地眼科医生朋友告诉我。
"This is the person who doesn't cry out to God in the middle of an earthquake." My friend, the eye doctor, comes from one of the old Mulatto families.
“这个人在地震中不会向上帝呼求。”我的眼科医生朋友来自一个古老的混血儿家庭。
And he may be the one true genius I've known in my life.
他可能是我一生中认识的唯一一位真正的天才。
He's fluent in six languages and proficient in three more, knows long passages of world literature by heart, plays the piano beautifully, and placed third in the Haitian National Chess Championship when he was 12.
他能流利地讲六种语言，并精通另外三种语言，背诵世界文学的长篇文章，弹得一手优美的钢琴，12岁时在海地全国国际象棋锦标赛中获得第三名。
I met him almost 20 years ago, when he was a handsome, young doctor with jet black hair down to his shoulders and the slightly mad eyes of a Rasputin or Houdini.
我大约 20 年前见过他，当时他是一位英俊、年轻的医生，一头乌黑的头发垂至肩头，眼神有点像拉斯普京或胡迪尼的疯狂。
He was brilliant and knew it.
他很聪明并且知道这一点。
On finding out he was a doctor, I made some trite comment about all the good he must be doing in his work.
当我发现他是一名医生时，我对他在工作中所做的一切好事做了一些陈词滥调的评论。
"No," he answered brusquely.
“不，”他粗鲁地回答。
"On the contrary, in Haiti, I'm like a jet pilot without a plane." I went to see him as soon as I arrived in Port-au-Prince and found him living with his family in their backyard.
“相反，在海地，我就像一名没有飞机的喷气机飞行员。”我一到太子港就去看他，发现他和家人住在他们的后院。
Most of their two story house was still standing, though the west wall had sheared away entirely, leaving that side of the house open to the air.
他们的两层房子的大部分仍然矗立着，尽管西墙已经完全被剪掉，房子的那一侧暴露在空气中。
And what remained was too shaky for habitation.
剩下的地方太摇摇欲坠，不适合居住。
So now they were living outdoors, sleeping in tents and a re-purposed tool shed and cooking on the stove they'd dragged outside.
所以现在他们住在户外，睡在帐篷和改造的工具棚里，用拖到外面的炉子做饭。
"And this is luxury," the doctor exclaimed, "We're the lucky ones." He and his wife and one of their sons had been on their small front gallery when the earthquake struck.
“这真是奢侈，”医生惊叹道，“我们是幸运儿。”地震发生时，他和他的妻子以及他们的一个儿子正在他们的小前廊上。
And at first, they thought it was a heavy truck going by, some gargantuan piece of construction equipment.
起初，他们以为这是一辆重型卡车驶过，是某种巨大的建筑设备。
And then they told me something I would hear many times in the coming days, "We thought it was the apocalypse or Armageddon.
然后他们告诉我一些我在未来几天会多次听到的事情，“我们认为这是世界末日或世界末日。
We thought the world was blowing up.
我们以为世界正在爆炸。
We thought this was the end of everything, so we just stood on the gallery hugging one another and waited for it to finish."
我们认为这就是一切的结束，所以我们只是站在画廊上互相拥抱，等待它结束。”
Such were expectations in Haiti, where the apocalypse comes more readily to mind than anything so far-fetched as an earthquake.
这就是海地的期望，在那里，世界末日比地震这样牵强的事情更容易让人想到。
A Danish filmmaker, a long time acquaintance of mine, was on the third floor of his house in Jacmel when the quake started.
地震开始时，一位丹麦电影制片人是我的老熟人，他正在雅克梅勒自家的三楼。
And he simply couldn't process what his eyes were seeing.
他根本无法处理他眼睛所看到的一切。
The room started shaking.
房间开始摇晃。
And then the walls started rippling and bending.
然后墙壁开始波纹和弯曲。
And he wondered, how can the walls be moving like that?
他想知道，墙壁怎么会这样移动？
And there was a hole in the wall, and he wondered why there was a hole in the wall.
墙上有一个洞，他想知道为什么墙上会有一个洞。
And then the balcony was gone, and how could that be?
然后阳台就不见了，怎么可能呢？
He sat on his bed, watching it all unfold in slow motion, but his brain wouldn't accept the information.
他坐在床上，看着这一切以慢动作展开，但他的大脑却无法接受这些信息。
I asked him, did you think you were losing your mind?
我问他，你觉得你疯了吗？
"Yes," he cried, "I did think I was losing my mind, because these things I was seeing just didn't make sense."
“是的，”他喊道，“我确实认为我疯了，因为我所看到的这些东西根本没有意义。”
"You think the one thing that's certain in your life," the eye doctor told me, "Is the ground beneath your feet.
“你认为你一生中唯一确定的一件事，”眼科医生告诉我，“就是你脚下的地面。
You think this one thing at least is solid.
你认为这一件事至少是可靠的。
And when that starts to shake, you experience real terror."
当它开始动摇时，你就会体验到真正的恐惧。”
We sat down at the small kitchen table in their backyard.
我们坐在他们后院的小厨房桌子旁。
So how were they doing?
那么他们表现如何呢？
"We're surviving," the doctor said with a shrug, though this might not seem so obvious.
“我们还活着，”医生耸耸肩说道，尽管这看起来可能不那么明显。
Their teen-aged sons hadn't had a school to go to since January 12.
自 1 月 12 日起，他们十几岁的儿子就没有上学了。
The wife's video rental business was lost in the quake.
妻子的录像带租赁生意在地震中破产了。
The doctor was doing a lot of meetings these days, but he said they were starting to make him feel like a character in a Kafka story.
这些天医生参加了很多会议，但他说这些会议开始让他感觉自己像卡夫卡故事中的角色。
As one of only 50 ophthalmologists in the entire country, he was much in demand by foreign governments and NGOs to consult on health care projects.
作为全国仅有的 50 名眼科医生之一，外国政府和非政府组织非常需要他为医疗保健项目提供咨询。
And after two solid months of meetings, he was going a little crazy.
经过两个月的会议后，他有点疯狂了。
"What happens at these meetings," he said, "Is that they meet to agree to evaluate the situation, so they can meet to agree to evaluate the situation, so they can meet to agree to evaluate and on and on." He'd been at one such meeting that very afternoon.
“在这些会议上发生的事情，”他说，“他们会开会同意评估情况，这样他们就可以开会同意评估情况，这样他们就可以开会同意评估等等。”那天下午他参加了一次这样的会议。
"I told them it was all bull[BLEEP] and bluff.
“我告诉他们这都是胡言乱语和虚张声势。
But even when I insult them, they don't listen to me.
但即使我侮辱他们，他们也不听我的。
They just want a couple of Haitians at the table for decoration.
他们只是想要几个海地人在餐桌上装饰一下。
We're there so they can keep on getting their money.
我们在那里是为了让他们能够继续拿到钱。
"On the plus side," he continued, "There was always plenty of food at these meetings," so he rarely needed to eat at home, which was good because he wasn't making any money these days.
“从好的方面来说，”他继续说道，“这些会议上总是有充足的食物，”所以他很少需要在家吃饭，这很好，因为这些天他没有赚到钱。
His office had been destroyed in the quake and the few pieces of equipment he'd managed to salvage sat in a forlorn little pile in his living room.
他的办公室在地震中被毁，他设法抢救的几件设备就放在客厅里废弃的一小堆里。
These days, his practice consisted of people randomly dropping by his house.
这些天，他的做法是让人们随机拜访他的房子。
Doc, everything's all blurry.
医生，一切都变得模糊了。
Doc, my eyes hurt.
医生，我的眼睛受伤了。
Doc, can you find me some glasses?
医生，你能给我找副眼镜吗？
I lost my glasses in the quake.
我在地震中丢了眼镜。
Several days a week, he hitch a ride out to one of the tent camps and treat people for free.
每周有几天，他都会搭便车前往其中一个帐篷营地，免费为人们治疗。
But otherwise, he sat in his backyard studying Chinese and reading the classics of western philosophy.
但除此之外，他就坐在自家后院学习中文，阅读西方哲学经典。
"You know what I've noticed," he told me that first evening at his house, "God gives you 205 years to do something with Haiti and if you fail, he passes it on to someone else.
“你知道我注意到了什么，”他在家里的第一个晚上告诉我，“上帝给了你 205 年的时间来为海地做点什么，如果你失败了，他会把它交给别人。
The Spanish had it from 1492 to 1697, 205 years.
西班牙人从1492年到1697年，共205年。
Then the French from 1698 to 1803, 205 years.
然后法国从1698年到1803年，205年。
Then the Haitians, from 1804 to 2009, 205 years." So what was coming next?
然后是海地人，从1804年到2009年，205年。”那么接下来会发生什么呢？
"Maybe a revolution," he answered cryptically.
“也许是一场革命，”他神秘地回答道。
"Or maybe Haiti would survive as a sprawling industrial park for the international aid complex.
“或者海地可能会作为国际援助综合体的庞大工业园区而生存下来。
Or maybe it would become a satellite of the United States, a kind of protectorate."
或者也许它会成为美国的卫星，一种保护国。”
And then I brought up the subject of art.
然后我提出了艺术的话题。
The doctor is-- among his many other talents and accomplishments-- an astute critic and tireless promoter of Haitian art.
除了他的许多其他才能和成就之外，这位医生还是一位精明的批评家和海地艺术孜孜不倦的推动者。
When I asked him whether anything had been rescued from the iconic institutions of Haitian art, the National Gallery, the Centre d'Art, or the murals of the Trinity Episcopal Church, his brow drew down and he brooded for a minute.
当我问他是否从海地标志性艺术机构、国家美术馆、艺术中心或三一圣公会教堂的壁画中抢救出任何东西时，他皱起了眉头，沉思了一分钟。
"Art is finished in Haiti," he said abruptly, "After what happened here, art has nothing more to say to us." And he went on, "The philosopher Hegel said that before the end of time there will be the end of history, and before the end of history there will be the end of art, maybe this is what we're seeing here, the enacting of Hegel's theory.
“艺术在海地已经结束了，”他突然说道，“在这里发生的事情之后，艺术对我们没有什么可说的了。”他接着说：“哲学家黑格尔说，在时间终结之前，历史就会终结，在历史终结之前，艺术就会终结，也许这就是我们在这里看到的，黑格尔理论的体现。
Haiti is leading the rest of the world to the end of time."
海地正在引领世界其他国家走向末日。”
Riding around Port-au-Prince during the day, seeing the sheer biblical scale of the destruction, this could definitely put you in an apocalyptic frame of mind.
白天在太子港周围骑行，看到圣经中所描述的毁灭规模，这绝对会让你陷入一种世界末日般的心态。
"Poor Haiti," people say, "So primitive, so backward, so far behind the times." I've been hearing about how backward Haiti is for as long as I've been going.
人们说：“可怜的海地，如此原始，如此落后，如此落后于时代。”自从我去海地以来，我就一直听说海地有多落后。
But how about this, what if Haiti is ahead of the times?
但这样怎么样，如果海地走在了时代的前面呢？
It seems to be on the leading edge of so many current trends, environmental degradation, serial ecological disasters, crumbling infrastructure, a population that exceeds resources, plus a skewed economic order that channels vast wealth to a privileged few while the great majority of people stagnate and struggle.
它似乎处于当前众多趋势的前沿：环境恶化、连续的生态灾难、摇摇欲坠的基础设施、人口超出资源，加上扭曲的经济秩序，将巨额财富输送给少数特权人士，而绝大多数人却停滞不前、挣扎求存。
By any objective measure, Haiti appears well-advanced on the track that the rest of the world seems hell bent on following.
无论以何种客观标准衡量，海地在世界其他国家似乎都热衷追随的道路上都处于领先地位。
The eye doctor proposed yet another alternative for Haiti's feature which was the extinction of the Haitian people.
眼科医生针对海地的特点提出了另一种选择，那就是海地人民的灭绝。
In other words, no future at all.
换句话说，根本没有未来。
And why not?
为什么不呢？
Many countries, many peoples have disappeared over the course of history.
许多国家、许多民族在历史的长河中消失了。
Why should Haiti be any different?
为什么海地应该有所不同？
From a sheer numbers standpoint, the earthquake had been a strong push in that direction.
从纯粹的数字角度来看，地震有力地推动了这个方向的发展。
And now, he pointed to the mountains looming over Port-au-Prince.
现在，他指着太子港上空若隐若现的山脉。
Every year there were fewer trees up there.
那里的树一年比一年少。
Every year the rains loosened the soil a little more.
每年的降雨使土壤变得更加疏松。
Unless drastic changes were made, it was only a matter of time before the mountains crashed down in a kind of land tsunami and buried the city whole like a modern day Pompeii, only with mud and rock instead of volcanic ash.
除非做出重大改变，否则山脉在陆地海啸中崩塌并像现代庞贝一样整个城市被掩埋只是时间问题，只有泥土和岩石而不是火山灰。
"The terrible thing about existence," the eye doctor told me a few days later, "Is not that there is suffering, but that there's no limit to suffering.
几天后，眼科医生告诉我：“存在的可怕之处不是存在痛苦，而是痛苦没有限制。
I think there's going to be an explosion," the doctor confided, a sentiment that was echoed many times by many people over the course of my visit.
我认为将会发生爆炸，”医生透露道，在我的访问过程中，许多人多次表达了同样的观点。
Even Haitians, as resourceful and tough as they are, have their limits.
即使是足智多谋、坚韧的海地人也有其局限性。
They were watching in the camps.
他们在营地里观看。
They were waiting.
他们在等待。
[FRENCH PHRASE] was a line of graffiti you saw everywhere.
[法语短语]是随处可见的一行涂鸦。
[FRENCH PHRASE].
[法语短语]。
We're tired, we've had enough.
我们累了，我们受够了。
We're simply, [FRENCH PHRASE].
我们只是，[法语短语]。
We're here.
我们到了。
That was what people often said when you asked how they were doing.
当你问人们过得怎么样时，人们经常这么说。
[FRENCH PHRASE] we're here.
[法语短语] 我们到了。
Or a sassier variation, [FRENCH PHRASE].
或者更时髦的变体，[法语短语]。
Better that we're ugly and here than not here.
我们丑陋地在这里总比不在这里好。
All those tents in Port-au-Prince, all those thousands of tents, sometimes I'd look at them and imagine an army was massed out there.
太子港的所有帐篷，所有数千个帐篷，有时我看着它们，想象一支军队聚集在那里。
The last time I talked to my friend Gary, the one whose children had wanted to know if I'd thought they were dead, he told me a barricade had been erected outside the gate of the warehouse where he works.
上次我和我的朋友加里交谈时，他的孩子们想知道我是否认为他们已经死了，他告诉我在他工作的仓库大门外竖起了路障。
Gary is a logistics manager for one of the big NGOs, and those his warehouse operation was clearly there to do good, people were protesting, they wanted jobs.
加里是一家大型非政府组织的物流经理，他的仓库运营显然是为了做好事，但人们抗议，他们想要工作。
Gary had hired all the workers he could, but for the people outside it wasn't enough.
加里已经雇佣了所有他能雇佣的工人，但对于外面的人来说这还不够。
For two days running, he'd had to negotiate his way through the barricade to get home.
连续两天，他都必须穿过路障才能回家。
It's getting radical, he told me.
他告诉我，这已经变得很激进了。
And then he added, come back soon.
然后他又补充了一句，你快点回来吧。
Ben Fountain.
本喷泉。
A few of the short stories that he's written, set in Haiti, are in his collection, brief encounters with Che Guevara.
他写的一些以海地为背景的短篇小说《与切·格瓦拉的短暂邂逅》收录在他的文集中。
[MUSIC- "EXHIBIT H" BY JOELL ORTIZ]
[音乐-乔尔·奥尔蒂斯的“Exhibit H”]
Our program today was produced by our senior producer, Julie Snyder with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollack, Robyn Semien, Alyssa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
我们今天的节目由我们的高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德 (Julie Snyder) 与亚历克斯·布伦伯格 (Alex Blumberg)、本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun)、简·菲尔特斯 (Jane Feltes)、莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig)、丽莎·波拉克 (Lisa Pollack)、罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien)、艾莉莎·希普 (Alyssa Shipp) 和南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 共同制作。
Production help from Brian Reed, Seth Lind is our production manager.
Brian Reed 提供生产帮助，Seth Lind 是我们的生产经理。
Emily Condon is our office manager.
艾米丽·康登 (Emily Condon) 是我们的办公室经理。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our program, by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, oh we have complained, do we have to wear these silly This American Life blazers to work every single day?
WBEZ 管理监督我们的项目，由我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生负责，哦，我们抱怨过，我们每天都必须穿着这些愚蠢的“美国生活”西装外套去上班吗？
Can't we stop that?
我们不能阻止吗？
But he just replies,
但他只是回答，
I mean, it's not us deciding.
我的意思是，这不是我们决定的。
We have bosses in Washington and they are the ones who make those decisions.
我们在华盛顿有老板，他们是做出这些决定的人。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。