406: True Urban Legends - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #406 | April 23, 2010 406: True Urban Legends Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 406 集 | 2010 年 4 月 23 日 406：真实都市传奇 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass If you grew up in a big city, you may have heard the urban legend alligators in the sewers.
序言 Ira Glass 如果你在大城市长大，你可能听说过下水道里的鳄鱼的都市传说。
They got there when people brought back baby alligators from vacations in Florida and flushed them down the toilets.
当人们从佛罗里达州度假带回小鳄鱼并把它们冲进厕所时，他们就到达了那里。
That's the kind of thing that, once you turn 12, you don't believe in anymore.
一旦你满12岁，你就不再相信这种事情了。
Well, New York Times , February 10, 1935, reports three teenagers were shoveling snow into a manhole on East 123rd Street.
纽约时报 1935 年 2 月 10 日报道，三名青少年正在东 123 街的沙井里铲雪。
They look down and see an alligator, which they pull out.
他们低头看到一条鳄鱼，就把它拉了出来。
It's not very healthy.
这不太健康。
And they carry it to the Lehigh Stove and Repair Shop at 441 East 123rd.
他们将其运至 441 East 123rd 的 Lehigh Stove and Repair Shop。
Lots of neighbors witness it.
很多邻居都见证了这一幕。
People are quoted by name.
引用人们的名字。
Best guess?
最好的猜测？
The gator came off a boat in the Harlem River.
鳄鱼从哈莱姆河的一艘船上下来。
Or, take this urban legend.
或者，以这个都市传说为例。
I'd heard this one, but I'd never believed it.
我听过这句话，但我一直不相信。
Turns out to be true.
事实证明这是真的。
Ian Meyer in Portland, Oregon, three years ago, walks home one night with his girlfriend from a party, where he'd had a couple of beers, three beers.
三年前，俄勒冈州波特兰市的伊恩·迈耶 (Ian Meyer) 一天晚上和女友参加完一场派对后步行回家，他在派对上喝了几瓶、三瓶啤酒。
Gets to his house, goes in the bathroom
到了他家，进了浴室
Start unzipping with one hand, lifting the lid with the other hand, and, you know, I get the lid maybe halfway open.
开始用一只手拉开拉链，用另一只手提起盖子，你知道，我可能会把盖子打开一半。
And there was this wet, beady-eyed rat in the toilet just looking up at me.
厕所里有一只浑身湿淋淋、眼睛圆睁的老鼠，正抬头看着我。
Right?
正确的？
Maybe you heard stories like this that don't seem they could possibly be true about somebody.
也许你听过这样的故事，但关于某人的故事似乎不太可能是真的。
They go in their bathroom late at night.
他们深夜去卫生间。
They sit down.
他们坐下来。
They get bit by a rat that came up through the pipes into the toilet.
他们被一只从管道里爬进厕所的老鼠咬了。
Here it is.
这里是。
The lid was down, so he must have come up through the sewer pipe somehow and swum through the lines and popped up into our toilet.
盖子是开着的，所以他一定是从下水道里爬出来的，然后游过管道，跳进了我们的厕所。
Was the rat trying to get out of the toilet?
老鼠是想从厕所里出来吗？
No, I think he was just as-- almost as stunned as I was.
不，我认为他和我一样——几乎和我一样震惊。
No, he was just sort of perched in the bowl, looking up when I opened the lid.
不，当我打开盖子时，他只是坐在碗里，抬起头来。
OK.
好的。
Horrifying.
太可怕了。
Ian, of course, quickly closes the lid, stands there dumbstruck.
当然，伊恩很快就合上了盖子，呆呆地站在那里。
What's his next move?
他的下一步行动是什么？
It's obvious.
这是显而易见的。
I took a minute, gathered myself, and then flushed.
我花了一分钟时间才镇定下来，然后脸红了。
Cracked the lid just a little bit, and he's still there.
盖子稍微破裂了一点，他还在那里。
He's just more wet now, and he's probably a little more alert now.
他现在只是更湿了，而且现在可能更警觉了一些。
Now he's mad.
现在他生气了。
Ian Yeah, now he's ready to get out of there.
伊恩：是的，现在他准备离开那里了。
He's ready to take action.
他已经准备好采取行动了。
Ian picks up the magazine rack by the toilet, which is heavy with three-years-old National Geographics .
伊恩拿起厕所旁边的杂志架，里面沉甸甸的，里面放着三年前的《国家地理》杂志。
He puts this on top of the toilet lid, leaves the bathroom to figure out his next play.
他把它放在马桶盖上，离开浴室去思考他的下一个游戏。
His girlfriend, Chelsea, is outside.
他的女朋友切尔西在外面。
I don't want to kill the rat because I've never killed an animal.
我不想杀老鼠，因为我从来没有杀过动物。
It should be easy enough to just catch him and let him go outside.
抓住他并让他出去应该很容易。
Sure Ian What I told myself that I needed in order to accomplish that plan, one, was some music.
当然，伊恩，我告诉自己，为了完成这个计划，我需要的是一些音乐。
I had to--
我不得不——
That was step one actually.
这实际上是第一步。
And that was Chelsea's job.
这就是切尔西的工作。
She had to turn some loud music on.
她不得不打开一些吵闹的音乐。
This was kind of to psych me up.
这有点让我兴奋。
[LOUD MUSIC PLAYING] Ira Glass Ian puts a leather garden glove on one hand and puts a rubber kitchen glove on top of that figuring, the rat's wet, that's going to be better.
[大声的音乐播放] Ira Glass Ian 将一只花园皮革手套戴在一只手上，然后将一只橡胶厨房手套放在那个数字上，老鼠湿了，这样会更好。
So I gear up, go in the bathroom, shut the door.
于是我做好准备，走进浴室，关上门。
And then I guess I must've just kind of stood in there for five minutes or so because the next thing I know, Chelsea has the music turned down, and she's asking me, what's going on in there.
然后我想我一定是在那里站了五分钟左右，因为接下来我知道，切尔西把音乐关小了，她问我，那里发生了什么事。
I don't know what she thought had gone on, but she was worried and was checking on me, making sure that everything was OK.
我不知道她认为发生了什么，但她很担心并正在检查我，确保一切都好。
And once she checked on me I think that kind of triggered the man instinct, like, OK, come on dude, get it together.
一旦她检查了我，我认为这触发了男人的本能，就像，好吧，来吧伙计，振作起来。
Yeah, time for some pride.
是的，是时候感到自豪了。
Ian It's just a rat.
伊恩 这只是一只老鼠。
At this point, I take the magazine rack off of the toilet lid, crack the seat, and, somehow, before I know it, he's halfway out of the toilet.
这时，我把杂志架从马桶盖上取下来，打开马桶座圈，不知怎的，在我意识到之前，他已经出了一半了。
Not good.
不好。
Ian drops the lid, leans his weight on it, which catches the rat half-in half-out of the toilet.
伊恩打开盖子，将身体的重量压在上面，把老鼠半对半地从马桶里抓了出来。
Its head and front arms are sticking out, waving around.
它的头和前臂伸出来，四处挥舞。
Now he just feels sorry for the little thing.
现在他只是为这件小事感到遗憾。
But this is his chance to set it free.
但这是他释放它的机会。
And so I'm thinking, OK perfect, I've got him caught here.
所以我想，好吧，完美，我把他抓到了。
He can't move anywhere.
他哪儿也不能动。
I'll reach down, grab him, carry out the plan.
我会伸手抓住他，执行计划。
Right when I reach down, he bites me.
当我伸手时，他就咬了我。
He bites my finger.
他咬我的手指。
I'll spare you the gory details that follow.
我就不给你讲接下来的血淋淋的细节了。
Let's just say that after another couple grabs, Ian comes to realize that he cannot capture the rat.
这么说吧，在另一对夫妇抓住之后，伊恩开始意识到他无法抓住老鼠。
He's going to have to kill him while he's trapped there halfway out of the toilet bowl.
当他被困在马桶外面时，他必须杀死他。
Which Ian does with his not-bare hands.
伊恩用他的双手来做这件事。
It was terrifying for months after that, maybe a year after that.
在那之后的几个月，也许一年后，这都是可怕的。
Chelsea and I, we would just be extremely paranoid about sitting on the toilet especially at night.
切尔西和我，我们对坐在马桶上非常偏执，尤其是在晚上。
Ian says half the people he tells this story to don't believe it.
伊恩说他讲这个故事的人有一半不相信。
He thinks they just don't want to believe it.
他认为他们只是不愿意相信。
But it turns out that the pipes that lead from your house to the sewer are not full of water.
但事实证明，从你家通向下水道的管道并没有充满水。
They're mostly empty unless you're doing your wash or something else that's sending a lot of water down.
它们大多是空的，除非你正在洗衣服或做其他会流下大量水的事情。
So rats can climb up through the pipes, and the only time that they actually need to hold their breath is when they get into the little reservoir in the toilet trap.
因此，老鼠可以通过管道爬上去，而它们真正需要屏住呼吸的唯一时间是当它们进入厕所存水弯的小水库时。
In a way, it's surprising it doesn't happen more often.
在某种程度上，令人惊讶的是这种情况并没有更频繁地发生。
Ian says he's found another rat in his toilet since then.
伊恩说，从那以后他在厕所里发现了另一只老鼠。
He now flushes when he walks into the bathroom just to send water down the pipes as a precaution against vermin.
现在，当他走进浴室时，他会冲水，只是为了将水送入管道，以预防害虫。
As for Chelsea?
至于切尔西？
I think it was worse for Chelsea because she didn't actually really ever see the rat in the toilet.
我认为这对切尔西来说更糟糕，因为她实际上并没有真正看到厕所里的老鼠。
I got to see it, and I came to terms with it somewhat.
我看到了它，并且在某种程度上接受了它。
For her, it was just-- it was still just sort of a myth.
对她来说，这只是——这仍然只是一个神话。
Chelsea was left with the urban legend that rats could come up into the toilet.
切尔西留下了老鼠会爬进厕所的都市传说。
I mean, now she knew it was true.
我的意思是，现在她知道这是真的。
So when she went into the bathroom, her imagination could just go wild.
所以当她走进浴室时，她的想象力就会变得疯狂。
Well, today on our radio show, we tried to wave away the smoky vapor of illusion and myth.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目中，我们试图挥走幻想和神话的烟雾。
We dive into a few stories, a few urban myths to see what is real and what is not so our imaginations don't have to run wild anymore.
我们深入研究一些故事、一些都市神话，看看什么是真实的，什么不是，这样我们的想象力就不必再胡思乱想了。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
We bring you today three stories of real urban legends.
今天我们为您带来三个真实的都市传说故事。
Act One, What's That Smell, in which a retired millionaire tries to understand the reality of a tough, seedy inner city neighborhood.
第一幕“那是什么味道”，一位退休的百万富翁试图了解一个艰难、肮脏的内城社区的现实。
Act Two, Fleeing Is Believing.
第二幕，逃离就是相信。
Foreigners come to the US who believe all kinds of misinformation about us that turns out to be true.
来到美国的外国人相信有关我们的各种错误信息，但事实证明这些信息都是真实的。
Act Three, Sleeper Cells.
第三幕，沉睡细胞。
Is it an urban myth that your cell phone gives you brain tumors?
手机会导致脑瘤，这是一个都市神话吗？
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
What's that smell?
那是什么味道？
The way Steve Poizner sees it, he did something admirable, something daring, something unusual.
在史蒂夫·波兹纳看来，他做了一些令人钦佩的事情，一些大胆的事情，一些不寻常的事情。
And when I read his account of what he did, he seemed sincere about it too.
当我读到他对自己所做事情的描述时，他似乎也很真诚。
He's a bit of a corny writer.
他是一个有点老套的作家。
Though even that, you can kind of forgive him.
尽管如此，你还是可以原谅他。
He's not a professional author.
他不是专业作家。
At the age of 45, after starting one Silicon Valley company that he sold for $30 million and a second one that sold for $1 billion, Poizner didn't need to work anymore.
45 岁时，普伊兹纳在硅谷创办了一家公司并以 3000 万美元的价格出售，又以 10 亿美元的价格出售了第二家公司，之后他不再需要工作了。
He says, he wanted to do some good for people.
他说，他想为人们做一些好事。
And so he called a dozen public high schools and volunteered to be a guest teacher of some sort.
于是他给十几所公立高中打电话，自愿成为某种形式的客座老师。
One called him back, a high school called Mount Pleasant.
一所名叫芒特普莱森特的高中给他回了电话。
And Poizner got into his car, drove the 15 miles from his neighborhood in Los Gatos in Silicon Valley to East San Jose.
波兹纳上了车，从他位于硅谷洛斯加托斯的社区驱车 15 英里到达东圣何塞。
I passed nearby my neighborhood French bakery and the local Ferrari dealership.
我经过附近的法国面包店和当地的法拉利经销店。
This is Steve Poizner reading from the book he wrote about this.
这是史蒂夫·波兹纳在读他写的有关此事的书。
"Several miles and a couple of highways later, I took the Capitol Expressway exit and drove into what felt like another planet.
“几英里和几条高速公路后，我从国会高速公路出口驶入感觉就像另一个星球。
Signs advertising janitorial supply stores and taquerias.
清洁用品商店和墨西哥快餐店的广告牌。
Exhaust hung over 10 lanes of inner city traffic.
市区内 10 条车道上弥漫着尾气。
Yellowing, weedy gardens fronted many of the homes, as did driveways marred by large oil spots or broken-down cars."
许多房屋前面都是泛黄、杂草丛生的花园，车道上也被大片油污或抛锚的汽车破坏了。”
When he sees the sound walls that separate California homes from the highway, he asks, were they keeping out the city's grit and noise or hiding profoundly sad lives?
当他看到将加州住宅与高速公路隔开的隔音墙时，他问道，它们是阻挡了城市的沙砾和噪音，还是隐藏了极度悲伤的生活？
He's allowed in the school to teach one US government class for one semester under another teacher's supervision.
他被允许在学校在另一位老师的监督下教授一门美国政府课程一个学期。
What he finds in the school are leaky roofs, hardened, unresponsive students, gangs and violence, a drop-out rate twice the national average.
他在学校里发现的是漏水的屋顶、顽固、反应迟钝的学生、帮派和暴力，辍学率是全国平均水平的两倍。
He worries that one student is going to punch him.
他担心一名学生会打他。
And later, that this student and his thug friends are going to push him up against a wall.
后来，这个学生和他的暴徒朋友要把他推到墙上。
He wonders if the students are "too busy ducking bullets to consider their careers." At the end of his first visit to school, he's relieved to find his Lexus still in the parking lot where he left it.
他想知道学生们是否“忙于躲避子弹而无暇考虑自己的职业”。第一次去学校结束时，他欣慰地发现他的雷克萨斯仍然停在他停放的停车场里。
"The shadows grew longer and the surroundings became a bit scary.
“影子变长了，周围变得有些恐怖。
Opening the door to my car, I notice a residential street just over the school's parking lot's fence.
打开车门，我注意到学校停车场围栏上方有一条住宅区街道。
There was an old Cadillac resting on two flat tires, something smelled rotten like trash that had sat around for too long, and a dog's raspy bark sounded uncomfortably close."
有一辆旧凯迪拉克停在两个瘪了的轮胎上，有什么东西闻起来像放置太久的垃圾一样腐烂，狗的刺耳吠声听起来很近，令人不舒服。”
And the only problem with this is a lot of it might not be true.
唯一的问题是很多内容可能不是真的。
Good evening.
晚上好。
Steve Poizner released a new book today.
史蒂夫·波兹纳今天发布了一本新书。
It is about his time as a substitute teacher at a high school in East San Jose.
这是关于他在东圣何塞一所高中担任代课老师的故事。
And what he put in print is drawing a lot of heat.
他发表的文章引起了很大的热度。
ABC7's Lisa Amin Gulezian is live tonight to explain.
ABC7 的丽莎·阿明·古勒齐安 (Lisa Amin Gulezian) 今晚将进行直播解释。
Steve Poizner's book got more attention than most do because in the seven years since he spent one semester at Mount Pleasant High School, Steve Poizner ran for assemblyman and lost, ran for a statewide office, California Insurance Commissioner, and won.
史蒂夫·波伊兹纳的书比大多数人都受到更多关注，因为自从他在芒特普莱森特高中度过一个学期以来的七年里，史蒂夫·波伊兹纳竞选议员但失败，竞选加州保险专员，并获胜。
He's in his fourth year in that job now.
现在是他担任该职位的第四个年头。
And today, he's one of two front-runners to become the Republican candidate for the governor of California.
如今，他是加州州长共和党候选人的两名领先者之一。
And right after publication, his book, which is titled Mount Pleasant, jumped to number 5 on The New York Times Best Seller list.
他的书《快乐山》一出版，就在《纽约时报》畅销书排行榜上跃居第五位。
Mount Pleasant High School students, teachers, parents, and alumni are outraged.
芒特普莱森特高中的学生、老师、家长和校友都感到愤怒。
Tonight, we are here to denounce Steve Poizner's comments.
今晚，我们来这里是为了谴责史蒂夫·波兹纳的言论。
Well, you know, it got very heated inside of Barnes and Noble before Steve Poizner's book signing.
嗯，你知道，在史蒂夫·波兹纳签名售书之前，巴诺书店内部的气氛非常热烈。
Eddie Garcia, the president of the East Side Union School Board, got in Poizner's face, challenging him about things that are written inside Mount Pleasant.
东区联合学校董事会主席埃迪·加西亚（Eddie Garcia）当着波兹纳的面，对普莱森特山里面写的东西提出质疑。
I heard about Steve Poizner and the controversy over whether his book got things wrong when a publicist for the book contacted our radio program.
当这本书的一位公关人员联系我们的广播节目时，我听说了史蒂夫·波兹纳以及关于他的书是否有问题的争议。
She wrote an email describing the incident at the bookstore this way, "Liberal activist took offense at how he describes the school, accurately, as plagued by gangs, teen pregnancy, and disrepair.
她写了一封电子邮件，这样描述书店发生的事件：“自由派活动家对他准确地描述学校的方式感到愤怒，因为学校受到帮派、青少年怀孕和年久失修的困扰。
They are trying to shut him up and discredit his argument about charter schools." Poizner makes a case for charter schools late in the book.
他们试图让他闭嘴，并质疑他关于特许学校的论点。”波兹纳在本书的最后提出了特许学校的案例。
"This is a classic case of liberals refusing to listen to simple facts and rational solutions."
“这是自由主义者拒绝听取简单事实和理性解决方案的典型案例。”
So I read the excerpt of his book online.
所以我在网上阅读了他的书的摘录。
There's a full chapter, and Poizner links to it from his campaign website.
有一个完整的章节，波兹纳从他的竞选网站链接到该章节。
You can read it yourself.
你可以自己读一下。
And it raised more questions than it answered.
它提出的问题多于它回答的问题。
It's a very odd chapter, all about Poizner's first days teaching a class at Mount Pleasant.
这是一个非常奇怪的章节，讲述的是波兹纳在普莱森特山教书的第一天。
There's scene after scene where he's floundering, standing in front of the class asking big, abstract questions.
在一个又一个的场景中，他举棋不定，站在全班同学面前问一些大而抽象的问题。
"Would you want to live in a country where the leader didn't want to lead, if the money issued by the government wasn't any good, or people were treated unfairly?" None of the students respond.
“如果政府发放的钱没有任何好处，或者人们受到不公平的对待，你愿意生活在一个领导人不想领导的国家吗？”没有一个学生回应。
He's a rookie teacher.
他是一位新老师。
He doesn't know how to engage them yet.
他还不知道如何吸引他们。
Nothing unusual there.
那里没有什么不寻常的。
But here's the strange thing.
但奇怪的是。
The conclusion Poizner comes to, again and again, during these scenes isn't that he's doing anything wrong, or he has anything to learn as a teacher.
在这些场景中，波兹纳一次又一次得出的结论并不是他做错了什么，或者作为一名老师他有什么需要学习的。
Instead, he blames the kids.
相反，他责怪孩子们。
They're tough.
他们很强硬。
They're unmotivated.
他们没有动力。
They lack ambition.
他们缺乏野心。
They're wired differently.
它们的接线方式不同。
The students, meanwhile, in every scene in the book-- I've read the whole book-- seem utterly lovely.
与此同时，书中每一个场景中的学生——我读完了整本书——看起来都非常可爱。
Polite, they don't interrupt, they don't talk back.
他们很有礼貌，不打断别人的话，也不顶嘴。
They just seem a little bored.
他们只是看起来有点无聊。
His very worst student is a graduating senior, who's hoping to go into the Marines.
他最差的学生是一名即将毕业的高年级学生，他希望加入海军陆战队。
Checking school records, I learn that Poizner's unmotivated, unambitious class included one of the school valedictorians, Charles Rudy, who graduated and went to college.
检查学校记录后，我了解到波兹纳的班级没有动力、没有雄心壮志，其中包括一位学校告别演说者查尔斯·鲁迪（Charles Rudy），他毕业并上了大学。
Could he be getting this so completely wrong, I wondered?
我想知道他会不会完全错了？
Could he have written an entire book misperceiving so thoroughly what was happening in front of his own eyes and was now trying to use that book to run for governor?
难道他写了一整本书，对自己眼前发生的事情有如此彻底的误解，现在却试图用这本书来竞选州长吗？
It seemed too incredible.
似乎太不可思议了。
And that's what brought me to San Jose last week to visit the school and its neighborhood.
这就是我上周来到圣何塞参观学校及其社区的原因。
My eyes were rolling throughout the entire book.
我的眼睛在整本书中翻来覆去。
This is Joe Lovato.
这是乔·洛瓦托。
He teaches English at Mount Pleasant.
他在芒特普莱森特教英语。
His Dad taught English at Mount Pleasant before him.
他的父亲在他之前在芒特普莱森特教英语。
Well, in the book, he tells stories of crossing the valley from his local Ferrari dealership, past his local French bakery, crossing town, getting off the freeway into my neighborhood and passing the taquerias and then wondering about the profoundly sad lives of the people who live behind the sound walls along the highway there.
好吧，在书中，他讲述了从当地的法拉利经销店穿过山谷，经过当地的法国面包店，穿过城镇，下高速公路进入我的社区，经过墨西哥小餐馆，然后想知道住在高速公路沿线隔音墙后面的人们的悲惨生活的故事。
That's me.
这就是我。
I live there.
我住在那里。
I can tell you, I have the white picket fence.
我可以告诉你，我有白色的尖桩篱栅。
I have two--
我有两个——
Literally?
从字面上看？
Joe Lovato Yeah, literally.
乔·洛瓦托 是的，字面上的意思。
A very well-manicured lawn.
修剪得非常好的草坪。
My Infiniti is in the front.
我的英菲尼迪在前面。
And I've got a real cute dog.
我还有一只非常可爱的狗。
I've got two kids running around in the front yard with my wife chasing them around.
我有两个孩子在前院跑来跑去，我的妻子在后面追着他们。
The derogatory statements to our students, the inaccuracies, the exaggerations, that's the part we're upset about.
对我们学生的贬损言论、不准确、夸大的言论，这就是我们感到不安的部分。
Mark Holston is one of Joe's colleagues in the English department.
马克·霍尔斯顿是乔在英语系的同事之一。
In his book, Poizner talks a few times about wishing that he could have a Stand and Deliver moment with his students.
在他的书中，波兹纳多次谈到希望他能与学生们一起度过一个“站立并交付”的时刻。
And Mark says, that's a problem right there.
马克说，这就是问题所在。
There's a narrative he had in his mind.
他的脑海里浮现出一段故事。
He saw teacher movies, and that was the narrative he had.
他看过老师的电影，这就是他的叙述。
And it fits his narrative to show that this school is a horrible school.
这符合他的叙述，表明这所学校是一所可怕的学校。
I wouldn't work at the school he described.
我不会在他描述的学校工作。
I'd be afraid to work in the school that he described in the thing.
我害怕在他在事情中描述的学校工作。
It's almost like he's stepping over bodies, and there's gun shots as he goes to his classroom every day.
他几乎就像踩着尸体一样，每天去教室时都会听到枪声。
And it's completely inaccurate, but it fits his narrative.
这完全不准确，但这符合他的叙述。
It fits promoting himself for the governor.
这很适合为州长推销自己。
And if anybody hasn't-- and some people say, well, it's not true, we know it's not true, it's exaggeration.
如果有人没有——有些人会说，好吧，这不是真的，我们知道这不是真的，这是夸大其词。
But anybody else outside of East San Jose reads this book, that's the truth.
但东圣何塞以外的任何人都读过这本书，这是事实。
Driving around the neighborhood, it is hard to disagree with the teachers who say that it is a perfectly nice middle class and working class area.
在附近开车，很难不同意老师的说法，他们说这是一个完美的中产阶级和工人阶级区域。
Occasionally you'll see a house in bad shape, but overwhelmingly it's nicely tended yards, garages, decent cars and SUVs in the driveways.
有时你会看到房屋状况不佳，但绝大多数都是精心照料的院子、车库、车道上停着像样的汽车和SUV。
It's suburban.
这是郊区。
I was surprised to learn that when Poizner taught here in 2003, there was a golf course just a couple blocks from the school.
我惊讶地发现，2003 年 Poizner 在这里任教时，距离学校仅几个街区就有一个高尔夫球场。
There's still a lake and the Raging Waters water park.
这里还有一个湖和 Raging Waters 水上乐园。
He doesn't mention those in the book.
他在书中没有提到这些。
We called a half dozen local real estate agents who confirmed what the teachers told us.
我们给六名当地房地产经纪人打电话，他们证实了老师告诉我们的事情。
That the neighborhood looks the same today as it did back in 2003.
今天的街区看起来和 2003 年时没什么两样。
If anything, they said, with the recession, it's gotten a little worse.
他们说，如果说有什么不同的话，那就是随着经济衰退，情况变得更糟了。
Average house price in 2003 near the school was $457,000.
2003年学校附近的平均房价为457,000美元。
Today, it's $317,000.
今天，它是 317,000 美元。
Well, it's 4:45, and I'm standing in the staff parking lot where Steve Poizner used to park his car, I suppose.
好吧，现在是 4 点 45 分，我正站在员工停车场，我想史蒂夫·波兹纳曾经在那里停过车。
And I am hearing the raspy sound of a dog's bark.
我听到狗叫的刺耳声音。
I can't see any beat-up, old cars over the fence.
我看不到栅栏外有任何破旧的汽车。
Mainly, it's incredibly lush and green and beautiful.
主要是，它非常茂盛、绿色和美丽。
There are little purple flowers.
有紫色的小花。
There are palm trees.
有棕榈树。
And it's just-- it's lovely.
这真是——太可爱了。
And it smells nice.
而且闻起来很香。
Though there is the dumpster for the school right by the parking lot.
虽然停车场旁边有学校的垃圾箱。
Conceivably, on some day that he was out here, that's what was making the trash smell was the school's own trash.
可以想象，有一天他来到这里，垃圾的味道就是学校自己的垃圾。
Now we went to the neighborhood and were told it hasn't changed that much since 2003 when you were there and--
现在我们去了附近，被告知自 2003 年你在那儿以来，这里没有太大变化，而且——
So I ran all this by Steve Poizner, the tidy houses, the golf course, what I did not smell in the parking lot.
所以我由史蒂夫·波兹纳管理这一切，整洁的房子，高尔夫球场，还有我在停车场闻不到的味道。
Are you overplaying the desperate poverty of this neighborhood?
你是否夸大了这个社区的极度贫困？
No, I don't think so.
不，我不这么认为。
I mean, it's definitely not like some inner city areas.
我的意思是，它绝对不像一些内城区。
And I don't know what-- what you described doesn't strike me as the neighborhood I was at.
我不知道——你所描述的情况并不像我所在的社区那样让我印象深刻。
I mean, at least in 2002 and 2003.
我的意思是，至少在 2002 年和 2003 年是这样。
I mean, the neighborhood is rough and tumble in that there's definitely a lot of crime and, no question, lower income.
我的意思是，这个社区很混乱，犯罪率很高，毫无疑问，收入也较低。
And there's a lot of signs that people were struggling economically.
有很多迹象表明人们在经济上陷入困境。
That's why the crime statistics for surrounding the school, you can get those from the San Jose Police Department like I did.
这就是为什么学校周围的犯罪统计数据，你可以像我一样从圣何塞警察局获得。
And we definitely documented that not only did it appear to be kind of a rough up-and-coming area, but the police will tell you that too.
我们确实记录了，它不仅看起来是一个粗糙的新兴区域，而且警察也会告诉你这一点。
So we went to the police.
于是我们就去报警了。
And they informed us that no, the neighborhood around Mount Pleasant High School is not especially dangerous or crime ridden.
他们告诉我们，不，芒特普莱森特高中周围的社区并不是特别危险或犯罪猖獗。
It's average for San Jose.
对于圣何塞来说这是平均水平。
And while San Jose might have a reputation in the richer suburbs around it for being sketchy and definitely was more dangerous in the '70s and '80s, a police spokesman told us that that view is out of date, an urban myth.
虽然圣何塞在其周边较富裕的郊区可能因粗略而闻名，并且在 70 年代和 80 年代肯定更加危险，但警方发言人告诉我们，这种观点已经过时，是一个城市神话。
According to FBI statistics, San Jose is one of the safest cities in the country.
根据联邦调查局的统计，圣何塞是全美最安全的城市之一。
There are 371 violent crimes per 100,000 people in San Jose in 2003, the year Poizner was there.
2003 年，也就是波兹纳任职的那一年，圣何塞每 10 万人就有 371 起暴力犯罪。
You'd be more likely to be a victim of violent crime in Austin, Texas or Seattle or Phoenix or Columbus, Ohio or San Francisco.
在德克萨斯州奥斯汀、西雅图、菲尼克斯、俄亥俄州哥伦布或旧金山，您更有可能成为暴力犯罪的受害者。
When it came to property crime that year, you were more than twice as likely to have something stolen from you in Honolulu, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco or nearly any big city you can name.
就那一年的财产犯罪而言，在檀香山、丹佛、西雅图、旧金山或几乎任何你能说出名字的大城市，你的东西被盗的可能性是你的两倍多。
In his book, Poizner plays up the violence at the school itself.
波兹纳在他的书中渲染了学校本身的暴力行为。
He mentions a shooting at the school that happened all the way back in 1990 where a Vietnamese student from another school shot a Mount Pleasant freshman.
他提到了 1990 年学校发生的一起枪击事件，当时另一所学校的一名越南学生枪杀了芒特普莱森特的一名新生。
And Poizner tells a story of a student of his who let him know that she wouldn't be at class for a couple of days because her boyfriend was on trial for being the driver in a bank robbery.
波兹纳讲述了一个故事，他的一名学生告诉他，她有几天不能上课，因为她的男朋友因银行抢劫案的司机而受审。
There's another student in Poizner's class that Poizner assumes must be in a gang.
波兹纳班上还有一名学生，波兹纳认为他一定是一个帮派成员。
Though confusingly in the book, Poizner never actually goes to the trouble to find out if the student is in a gang.
尽管书中的内容令人困惑，但波兹纳实际上从未费尽心思去查明该学生是否加入了帮派。
That's the student who Poizner worries will hit him or get his thug friends and push him against a wall.
波兹纳担心这个学生会打他，或者让他的暴徒朋友把他推到墙上。
So is the school dangerous?
那么学校危险吗？
Well, I checked with the man who knows, Christopher Schroeder, the associate principal at Mount Pleasant in charge of discipline.
嗯，我咨询了一位知情人士，克里斯托弗·施罗德（Christopher Schroeder），他是芒特普莱森特学校负责纪律的副校长。
There is a gang presence in the area.
该地区有一个帮派存在。
They've been here for-- we're into the second and sometimes third generation of gang families.
他们一直在这里——我们已经进入了黑帮家族的第二代，有时甚至是第三代。
We know this.
我们知道这一点。
But at school, we don't have gang problems per se.
但在学校，我们本身不存在帮派问题。
Our students are able to sit next to each other in a classroom and not have conflicts.
我们的学生能够在教室里坐在一起，不会发生冲突。
We don't have fights in the classroom.
我们在教室里不会打架。
We don't have fights on campus.
我们在校园里不会打架。
We have few fights.
我们很少吵架。
Off the top of my head, I think we've had about a dozen fights this year.
我突然想到，今年我们已经吵了十几次了。
That's about the number of fights that you would get at any high school even in a fancy neighborhood.
这大约是你在任何一所高中，甚至在高档社区里发生的打架事件的数量。
There are no metal detectors in the school's entrances.
学校入口处没有金属探测器。
Mr. Schroeder says, the total number of gang members among the 1,900 students here?
施罗德先生说，这里1900名学生中，一共有多少帮派成员？
50 at most.
最多50个。
They are aware that we know who they are.
他们知道我们知道他们是谁。
But we also have gang intervention specialists who work with them every day.
但我们也有帮派干预专家每天与他们一起工作。
Almost every day, we have a gang intervention specialist out there with those guys, talking about their problems, talking about what's happening on the street, making sure that we have peace on campus.
几乎每天，我们都有一名帮派干预专家与这些人在一起，谈论他们的问题，谈论街上发生的事情，确保我们校园里有和平。
When it comes to the drop out rate, Steve Poizner also seems to be choosing his statistics very selectively.
当谈到辍学率时，史蒂夫·波兹纳似乎也非常有选择性地选择他的统计数据。
Mount Pleasant's dropout rate, including the year he was there, is consistently better, sometimes far better than the state and national dropout rates, which is a huge achievement for a school like Mount Pleasant that is 2/3 Latino.
芒特普莱森特的辍学率，包括他就读的那一年，一直都比较好，有时甚至远远高于州和全国的辍学率，这对于像芒特普莱森特这样 2/3 拉丁裔学生的学校来说是一项巨大的成就。
Nationally, Latino dropout rates are much higher than those of other students.
在全国范围内，拉丁裔学生的辍学率远高于其他学生。
In his book, Poizner doesn't mention any of those numbers.
波兹纳在他的书中没有提到任何这些数字。
And he doesn't mention the school's stats at all, but instead quotes a number for the district that the school is in, the East Side Union High School District.
他根本没有提到学校的统计数据，而是引用了学校所在地区东区联合高中学区的数字。
Even here, he cherry-picks.
即使在这里，他也会精挑细选。
In 2003, the year Poizner was at the district, its dropout rate was slightly lower than the state and national averages.
2003年，也就是普伊兹纳就读该学区的那一年，该学区的辍学率略低于该州和全国的平均水平。
Poizner instead chooses to quote the number for one of the two years during the past decade, 2005, when the district had twice as many dropouts as the state and national numbers.
相反，Poizner 选择引用过去十年中两年中的一年（2005 年）的数字，当时该学区的辍学人数是州和全国数字的两倍。
Statistically, Poizner did not teach at a terrible school in a terrible neighborhood, but an average school in an average neighborhood.
据统计，波兹纳并不是在一个糟糕社区的一所糟糕学校任教，而是在一个普通社区的一所普通学校任教。
Oh, we got trouble.
哦，我们遇到麻烦了。
Student Right here in River City.
学生就在河城。
Right here in River City.
就在河城这里。
Student With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool.
Student 大写的 T 与 P 押韵，代表台球。
That stands for pool.
那代表游泳池。
Student We surely got trouble.
学生 我们肯定遇到麻烦了。
These are the dangerous toughs of Mount Pleasant High School rehearsing The Music Man in the brand new auditorium that the school just built.
这些是芒特普莱森特高中的危险人物，他们在学校刚刚建成的全新礼堂里排练《音乐人》。
The school has 150 students studying animation in a special studio with rows of Macs and animation stands.
学校有 150 名学生在一个专门的工作室里学习动画，工作室里有一排排 Mac 电脑和动画摊位。
This was all going on when Poizner was at the school too.
当波兹纳还在学校时，这一切都发生了。
There are 19 AP classes.
有19个AP课程。
There's a vocational program teaching metal and woodworking and computer-aided design plus a variety of special projects and programs to close the achievement gap and get less-priveleged kids to college.
有一个教授金属和木工以及计算机辅助设计的职业课程，以及各种特殊项目和计划，以缩小成绩差距并让贫困的孩子进入大学。
School attendance is 95%.
学校出勤率为 95%。
All right.
好的。
"Iowa Stubborn." Everyone into place.
“爱荷华州固执。”大家都就位。
Some things about the school though clearly could be better.
学校的一些事情显然还可以做得更好。
The school doesn't hit its goals in statewide testing.
学校在全州范围内的测试中没有达到目标。
It ranks in the 40th percentile of all California schools partly because a fourth of Mount Pleasant student body is rated "not proficient" in English.
它在加州所有学校中排名第 40%，部分原因是 Mount Pleasant 学生中有四分之一的英语被评为“不熟练”。
But measured against schools with similar demographics, it's in the 70th percentile.
但与人口统计数据相似的学校相比，它处于第 70 个百分点。
For years, I was a reporter in the Chicago Public Schools for NPR's daily news programs.
多年来，我一直在芝加哥公立学校担任 NPR 每日新闻节目的记者。
I've been in great schools.
我曾在很棒的学校就读。
I've been in dangerous schools, urban schools, suburban schools.
我曾在危险学校、城市学校、郊区学校上过学。
Mount Pleasant is definitely one of the better public high schools I've ever visited.
芒特普莱森特绝对是我访问过的最好的公立高中之一。
And I know that it may seem like I'm belaboring all this, putting this one book under a microscope point by point, but so many of the political discussions in our country just seem so disconnected from reality.
我知道，我似乎在对这一切进行详尽的阐述，将这本书逐点放在显微镜下，但我们国家的许多政治讨论似乎与现实脱节。
Every year, there are egregious examples of politicians and commentators who believe that if they repeat some non-fact over and over, it becomes true.
每年都有一些令人震惊的例子，政客和评论员相信，如果他们一遍又一遍地重复一些非事实，那么它就会成为事实。
And the more I looked into Poizner's book, the more it seemed like one of those rare cases that is so obviously and provably untrue.
我对波兹纳的书研究得越多，就越觉得它像是那些明显且可证明不真实的罕见案例之一。
Though in Poizner's case, what made this especially interesting was that from his book, it seemed very possible that he really is just a well-meaning, idealistic guy who wants to help people who just got a lot of this wrong.
尽管在波兹纳的例子中，让这件事特别有趣的是，从他的书中来看，他很可能真的只是一个善意的、理想主义的人，想要帮助那些犯了很多错误的人。
Though when I asked Steve Poizner if that's what happened here, that it is not a dangerous, bad school, he stuck by his guns.
尽管当我问史蒂夫·波兹纳（Steve Poizner）这是否是这里发生的事情，这不是一所危险、糟糕的学校时，他坚持自己的立场。
You write really honestly in the book about how you aren't from a neighborhood like this and how naive you are going in.
你在书中非常诚实地写到你不是来自这样的社区，而且你进来时是多么天真。
I mean, you write really, really honestly about it.
我的意思是，你写得非常非常诚实。
Do you think it's possible that you went into this neighborhood, and you just misperceived how dangerous and tough it is?
你是否认为你有可能走进这个社区，只是错误地意识到它有多么危险和艰难？
And that's what people are pointing out?
这就是人们所指出的？
Well, most people who are reading the book, just don't have that reaction.
好吧，大多数读这本书的人都没有这种反应。
There are some--
有一些——
Well, no, but I'm not talking about-- I'm talking about the people in the neighborhood, who know the neighborhood.
嗯，不，但我不是在谈论——我是在谈论附近的人，他们了解这个社区。
I don't think it's a surprise that people who are in that neighborhood bristle at blunt observations.
我认为附近的人们对直率的观察感到愤怒并不奇怪。
By the way, I just said-- Ira Glass Do you think it's possible-- I mean, you talk so honestly about this in the book-- do you think it's possible that you just misperceived it because you weren't used to that kind of neighborhood?
顺便说一句，我刚才说——艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），你认为这有可能吗——我的意思是，你在书中如此诚实地谈论了这一点——你认为你可能只是因为不习惯那种社区而误解了它吗？
Well, this is a book about my experience.
嗯，这是一本关于我的经历的书。
And so that's all the book is about based on my background.
这就是这本书根据我的背景讲述的全部内容。
So I'm taking it-- so are you saying you do think it's possible?
所以我接受——那么你是说你确实认为这是可能的吗？
No, I'm not saying that.
不，我不是这么说的。
Mark Holston What upsets me from the beginning and even now is his intent.
马克·霍尔斯顿 从一开始甚至现在都让我感到不安的是他的意图。
Soon after his experience at Mount Pleasant, he ran for assemblyman.
在芒特普莱森特的经历结束后不久，他就竞选议员。
And I think what kind of turned me off to him was I got some of his campaign literature, and on there he had, businessman/teacher based on his one semester teaching.
我想是什么让我对他产生了反感，因为我得到了他的一些竞选文献，在那里他有一个基于他一学期教学的商人/老师。
And he claimed he was a teacher by profession.
他声称自己的职业是教师。
And right away, that's what kind of offended me.
马上，这就是冒犯我的地方。
The centerpiece of his campaign was his experience at Mount Pleasant High School.
他竞选活动的核心是他在芒特普莱森特高中的经历。
Even in his commercials, he said, I've taught in schools, I know what it's like to work at the schools, I can fix the problems and things like that.
即使在他的广告中，他也说，我在学校教过书，我知道在学校工作是什么感觉，我可以解决问题之类的。
From my understanding, it was obvious that he was there to exploit our students, to exploit our school.
据我了解，他显然是为了剥削我们的学生、剥削我们的学校。
He came there saying, he had no political ambitions.
他到那里说，他没有政治野心。
He told our principal, this is not about politics, I just want to give back to the community, I just want to see what it's like to teach in a school and get a better understanding what the schools are like.
他告诉我们的校长，这与政治无关，我只是想回馈社会，我只是想看看在学校教书是什么感觉，更好地了解学校是什么样的。
Even in his book, he says, I had no intention of running for office when I went there.
他说，即使在他的书中，我去那里时也无意竞选公职。
Poizner still insists on that.
波兹纳仍然坚持这一点。
It was two months after he stopped teaching at the school that he filed papers to start fundraising to run for assemblyman.
在他停止在学校任教两个月后，他提交了文件，开始筹款竞选议员。
In the spring after that, his campaign came back to Mount Pleasant to shoot a commercial with testimony from teachers and students about what Poizner had done for the school.
此后的春天，他的竞选活动回到芒特普莱森特拍摄了一个广告，其中有老师和学生的见证，讲述了波兹纳为学校所做的一切。
The videographer set up a camera and lights in one of the classrooms during seventh period.
第七节课时，摄像师在其中一间教室安装了摄像机和灯光。
And students were ushered in one at a time.
学生们一次又迎来一位。
In campaigning, including in one of his campaign biographies-- a biography which, by the way, calls Mount Pleasant "an inner city high school"-- Poizner also touts the fact that the principal of Mount Pleasant named him Rookie Teacher of the Year.
在竞选活动中，包括在他的一本竞选传记中——顺便说一下，这本传记称芒特普莱森特为“内城高中”——波兹纳还吹捧芒特普莱森特校长授予他年度新秀教师这一事实。
Oh, the Rookie of the Year thing, it was--
哦，年度最佳新秀，是——
Mark Holston and Joe Lovato explained that at the end of school that year, the principal quickly wrote up a bunch of certificates on his computer for a staff party.
马克·霍尔斯顿和乔·洛瓦托解释说，那年放学时，校长很快在电脑上为员工聚会写了一堆证书。
Lots of people got them for all kinds of things.
很多人为了各种各样的事情而得到它们。
And that's the other part that really incensed me when he put out his press release as a result of his he received the Rookie of the Year award as if it was voted on statewide, and there was a board, and there was a panel, and essays were written about great he was.
这是真正激怒我的另一部分，当他发布新闻稿时，因为他获得了年度最佳新秀奖，就好像它是在全州范围内投票的一样，有一个董事会，有一个小组，并且写了关于他伟大的文章。
It was a certificate printed out.
那是一份打印出来的证书。
Everybody that was leaving was getting certificates.
每个离开的人都获得了证书。
And that was a certificate of appreciation.
那是一份感谢状。
The reason I've been wanting to talk to people about the book is just because I hate to see somebody's character get assassinated unfairly, which is my judgement that was what's been happening.
我一直想和人们谈论这本书的原因只是因为我讨厌看到某人的角色被不公平地暗杀，这是我的判断，那就是正在发生的事情。
Todd Richards is the social studies teacher who supervised Steve Poizner in classroom 612 back in 2003.
托德·理查兹 (Todd Richards) 是一位社会研究老师，他于 2003 年在 612 教室指导史蒂夫·波兹纳 (Steve Poizner)。
He's still there.
他还在那里。
Well, it's still largely as it would have been when Poizner was here.
嗯，基本上还是和波兹纳还在的时候一样。
You can see there's the usual whiteboard in front.
你可以看到前面有一块常见的白板。
There's a screen for the LCD projector.
液晶投影仪有一个屏幕。
In the debate among Mount Pleasant teachers over whether Steve Poizner was a Machiavellian schemer, who used them, or a sincere, perhaps slightly naive guy, who actually wanted to help out, Mr. Richards is a principled agnostic.
在芒特普莱森特的老师们关于史蒂夫·波兹纳是否是一个利用他们的马基雅维利式阴谋家，或者一个真诚的、也许有点天真的、实际上想提供帮助的人的争论中，理查兹先生是一个原则上的不可知论者。
We can't know what he was thinking, Richards says.
“我们不知道他在想什么，”理查兹说。
So let's judge his actions.
那么让我们来评判他的行为吧。
Richard says that he was as suspicious as anybody when this millionaire showed up in his classroom.
理查德说，当这位百万富翁出现在他的教室时，他和其他人一样感到怀疑。
But over the course of the year--
但这一年来——
I came to think that he was someone who cared deeply about the students.
我觉得他是一个非常关心学生的人。
I'd had people from the business world come in and really talk down to students, not put any effort into it, speak to them in jargon.
我让来自商界的人进来，用居高临下的态度与学生交谈，不花任何精力，用行话与他们交谈。
I mean, it just-- I never want you back kind of thing.
我的意思是，我从来不希望你回来之类的事情。
Poizner clearly worked very, very hard on this class.
显然，波兹纳在这门课上非常非常努力。
He was a rookie.
他是个新人。
He made rookie mistakes.
他犯了菜鸟错误。
But he clearly wanted the kids to have a valuable experience.
但他显然希望孩子们能获得宝贵的经历。
And he clearly cared that they graduate and do well.
他显然很关心他们毕业并表现出色。
When I recorded Mr. Richards teaching a class, his sixth-period college-level macroeconomics class for seniors--
当我录制理查兹先生的课程时，他为高年级学生开设的第六节大学水平宏观经济学课程——
He asked me if I would like to take five minutes and ask a few questions of the students.
他问我是否愿意花五分钟时间问学生几个问题。
He left the room, so his presence wouldn't bias anybody.
他离开了房间，所以他的存在不会影响任何人。
I asked the class if there was anything that they would want me to ask Poizner on their behalf or to say to him.
我问全班同学是否希望我代表他们向波兹纳询问或对他说些什么。
One senior raised his hand and said that he'd just heard from colleges.
一位高年级学生举手说，他刚刚收到大学的消息。
I'm going to Berkeley.
我要去伯克利。
Take that Poizner.
以波兹纳为例。
[LAUGHTER] Student No, seriously.
[笑声] 学生 不，说真的。
Because it's like how is he going to talk about us the way he did when we had almost nine people get into Berkley this year?
因为这就像今年我们有近九个人进入伯克利时，他将如何像他那样谈论我们？
That's ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
Yvette Rodriguez, another senior, spoke up.
另一位高年级学生伊维特·罗德里格斯（Yvette Rodriguez）发言。
A lot of things that he said is something that you would expect someone who doesn't live in this neighborhood to think of us.
他说的很多话，你会期望不住在这个街区的人也会想到我们。
He was just really quick to judge.
他的判断速度非常快。
He didn't grow up here.
他不是在这里长大的。
And he says it in his book.
他在他的书中这么说。
Where he grew up, they don't have any of this, so how is he just going to-- I'm not going to go judge him and say, oh, you know, he's like a rich white guy and doesn't know.
在他长大的地方，他们没有这些，所以他怎么会——我不会去评判他，说，哦，你知道，他就像一个富有的白人，但他不知道。
Because I don't know him.
因为我不认识他。
But yet he's over here judging us.
但他却在这里评判我们。
That's stereotyping.
这就是刻板印象。
So I think he needs to come out and say-- apologize I think, at least, because a lot of us felt really offended by it.
所以我认为他需要站出来说——至少我认为道歉，因为我们很多人都感到被冒犯了。
When I visited the school, I went to Mr. Richards' class.
当我参观学校时，我去了理查兹先生的班级。
And I asked the students if they had questions for you or anything that they would like me to say to you.
我问学生们是否有问题要问你，或者有什么想让我对你说的。
And they had one request.
他们有一个要求。
One senior girl said, she'd like you to admit you got things wrong.
一位高年级女孩说，她希望你承认自己做错了。
She'd like you to apologize.
她希望你道歉。
What do you want to say to her?
你想对她说什么？
Well, no. I appreciate her feedback.
嗯，不。我很欣赏她的反馈。
And I appreciate their passion.
我很欣赏他们的热情。
And by the way, it's been pretty interesting to see how much school spirit has emerged as some people at the school were concerned about whether their school was being fairly characterized.
顺便说一句，当学校里的一些人担心他们的学校是否具有相当的特色时，看到学校精神的出现是非常有趣的。
Let's just step back for a second and just think about what I've done and what I'm doing.
让我们退后一步，想一想我已经做了什么和正在做什么。
So here, I sell my last company for a lot of money.
所以在这里，我以很多钱卖掉了我的上一家公司。
And I'm pretty financially well-off.
而且我的经济状况相当富裕。
And I decide to go into Mount Pleasant High School.
我决定进入芒特普莱森特高中。
And then after I teach at the school for an extended period of time, I then go back to the school every year to do guest teaching.
然后当我在学校教书一段时间后，我每年都会回到学校做客座教学。
And then my wife and I get all kinds of requests from teachers and students about certain projects.
然后我和我的妻子收到了老师和学生关于某些项目的各种请求。
And we end up donating over $80,000 to the school over a period of many years.
多年来，我们最终向学校捐赠了超过 80,000 美元。
I love the school.
我爱这所学校。
And then I write this book about my experiences at the school.
然后我写了这本书，讲述我在学校的经历。
And the purpose of the book-- even the critics at the school, I guess, seem to understand-- the purpose of the book is to zero in on the fact that Mount Pleasant High School is underperforming.
这本书的目的——我猜，连学校的批评者似乎都明白——这本书的目的是把芒特普莱森特高中表现不佳的事实归零。
Huge opportunities to improve.
巨大的改进机会。
The school is in the bottom 40%.
学校排名垫底 40%。
And I guess you can argue about my characterizations of the school.
我想你可能会争论我对学校的描述。
I stand by them.
我支持他们。
But no one seems to be arguing with the conclusions of the book.
但似乎没有人对这本书的结论提出异议。
Well, sort of.
嗯，有点像。
Some conclusions, obviously, people do argue with.
显然，人们确实对某些结论存在争议。
But this particular conclusion-- that being at the 40th percentile among California public schools is not good enough-- is one that's kind of gotten lost in the shuffle in a lot of the discussion at the school.
但这个特殊的结论——在加州公立学校中排名第 40% 还不够好——在学校的大量讨论中被忽视了。
And that's the part that kind of frustrates me.
这就是让我感到沮丧的部分。
Sudhir Karandikar created the AP calculus program at Mount Pleasant.
Sudhir Karandikar 在 Mount Pleasant 创建了 AP 微积分课程。
He teaches four classes of AP calculus.
他教授四门 AP 微积分课程。
He's the only teacher I saw at school who could be described as dapper.
他是我在学校见过的唯一一个可以用衣冠楚楚来形容的老师。
And the only one wearing a suit, a charcoal gray pinstripe.
唯一一个穿着炭灰色细条纹西装的人。
He's been at Mount Pleasant 14 years.
他已经在芒特普莱森特工作了 14 年。
And he says, sure, Poizner got it wrong when he wrote that this is a dangerous school.
他说，当然，当波兹纳写道这是一所危险的学校时，他错了。
The whole ducking bullets and the kid is going to hit him and his Lexus is going to get stolen, it was either a gross exaggeration for the sake of making a dramatic book, or he just misread it.
整个躲避子弹，孩子会击中他，他的雷克萨斯会被偷，这要么是为了写一本戏剧性的书而严重夸张，要么他只是误读了它。
Let's move on.
让我们继续吧。
We know he got the safety issue wrong.
我们知道他在安全问题上搞错了。
As far as academic performance of this school, he was dead-on.
就这所学校的学习成绩而言，他是完全正确的。
Academically, I don't find anything wrong in his conclusions or assessments of our school academically.
从学术上来说，我没有发现他的结论或者对我们学校学术上的评价有什么错误。
"We should be doing a better job with these kids," Mr. Karandikar said.
“我们应该更好地对待这些孩子，”卡兰迪卡先生说。
"That's what we should move the discussion to now." A few teachers told me that they agreed with Poizner, that academically the school should be better.
“这就是我们现在应该讨论的问题。”一些老师告诉我，他们同意波兹纳的观点，即在学术上学校应该更好。
And they like the fact that Poizner gives lots of details in his book to help his readers understand the money problems that the school faces and that he shows some of the everyday teaching problems they're up against, stuff that isn't really talked about in the news or normal political discussions about schools.
他们喜欢波兹纳在书中提供的大量细节，帮助读者了解学校面临的资金问题，并展示了他们遇到的一些日常教学问题，这些问题在新闻或有关学校的正常政治讨论中没有真正谈论过。
Here's English teacher Vivian Bricksin.
这是英语老师 Vivian Bricksin 的报道。
He talks about one student that tells them, "I don't think I want to do that," when he's trying to encourage them to work a little harder.
他谈到一名学生，当他试图鼓励他们更加努力地学习时，他告诉他们“我认为我不想这样做”。
And that is a kind of a surprising challenge to face as a teacher.
作为一名教师，这是一个令人惊讶的挑战。
"No, I don't think I want to do that." And the lack of motivation is a daily challenge, I think, for teachers in the school even if they're veterans.
“不，我想我不想那样做。”我认为，对于学校的老师来说，缺乏动力是每天面临的挑战，即使他们是退伍军人。
Steve Poizner says, this is exactly what he hopes readers will take from his book.
史蒂夫·波兹纳说，这正是他希望读者从他的书中学到的东西。
He wants it to lead to a better discussion about how to improve schools.
他希望这能引发关于如何改善学校的更好讨论。
In the book, he talks mostly about charter schools as being a good laboratory for new ideas.
在书中，他主要谈论特许学校是新思想的良好实验室。
In his gubernatorial campaign, he also talks about cutting down on the central school bureaucracy in California, giving more control of the curriculum and more money to local schools, two things that teachers like, of course.
在他的州长竞选中，他还谈到要削减加州中央学校的官僚机构，给予当地学校更多的课程控制权和更多的资金，当然，这两件事是老师们喜欢的。
Many of Mount Pleasant's teachers are less keen on two of Poizner's other big proposals, to make it easier to fire teachers and suspend rules at the bottom 40% of California schools and to expel from public schools all the students who are in the country illegally, which would, of course, affect students at Mount Pleasant.
普莱森特山的许多老师不太热衷于普伊兹纳的另外两项重大提议，即更容易解雇教师、暂停加州排名最后 40% 的学校的规定，以及将所有非法居留的学生从公立学校开除，这当然会影响芒特普莱森特的学生。
Poizner told me that, in the end, it doesn't matter if he got facts wrong about the school.
波兹纳告诉我，最终，即使他对学校的了解有误，也没关系。
Because everywhere, but at Mount Pleasant itself, this is the discussion that he hopes his book will engender.
因为在任何地方，除了芒特普莱森特本身，他希望他的书能够引发这样的讨论。
Most Californians have absolutely no idea what goes on in a classroom, what goes on in the public education system.
大多数加州人完全不知道教室里发生了什么，公共教育系统中发生了什么。
And so, at the end of it all, a month from now or a year from now, when people are debating this book, they're not going to be debating whether my characterization of the smells in the neighborhood are the same as yours when you went there.
因此，最终，一个月后或一年后，当人们讨论这本书时，他们不会争论我对附近气味的描述是否与你去那里时的描述相同。
I mean, the purpose of the book is to improve the public education system.
我的意思是，这本书的目的是改善公共教育体系。
English teacher Mark Holston sees this one differently.
英语老师马克·霍尔斯顿对此有不同的看法。
He says for Poizner to misread what this school and this neighborhood are all about says a lot about his judgment.
他说，波兹纳误读了这所学校和这个社区的全部内容，这很大程度上说明了他的判断力。
And that does mean something.
这确实意味着一些事情。
Half the state of California, who he's trying to represent, looks like our neighborhood.
他试图代表的加利福尼亚州的一半看起来像我们的社区。
Our neighborhood looks more like California than the neighborhood he comes from.
我们的社区看起来比他来自的社区更像加利福尼亚州。
So I think he's completely out of touch.
所以我认为他完全脱离了现实。
I hate to think that somebody, even getting this far, could be that naive, and be that clueless.
我讨厌认为有人即使走到了这一步，也可能那么天真，那么无能。
That's even scarier.
那就更可怕了。
Because I'm sure he's going to run for something else.
因为我确信他会为了别的事情而竞选。
And he can't be that way off.
他不可能走得那么远。
It's terrifying he's that way off.
可怕的是他离得那么远。
Again, this is an average high school.
再说一遍，这是一所普通高中。
And if he was the governor, he'd be the chief educator for the state of California.
如果他是州长，他将成为加利福尼亚州的首席教育工作者。
And if he could misinterpret what he's sees in this school and portray a school as one of the toughest when it's an average high school in California, it's scary for our future in California if he ever got elected.
如果他能够误解他在这所学校中看到的情况，并将这所学校描绘成加州最艰难的学校之一，而这只是加州的一所普通高中，那么如果他当选，我们加州的未来就会很可怕。
One week after Poizner's book made it to number 5 on the best seller list, it dropped to number 33.
波兹纳的书在畅销书排行榜上排名第 5 后一周，又跌至第 33 位。
The campaign declined to give sales figures for the book and declined to say whether it bought enough copies itself in that first week to put the book on the best seller list.
该活动拒绝透露该书的销售数据，也拒绝透露该公司是否在第一周内购买了足够的书籍以将该书列入畅销书排行榜。
The principal at Mount Pleasant told me she now finds herself with an awkward dilemma.
芒特普莱森特的校长告诉我，她现在发现自己陷入了一个尴尬的困境。
Poizner has donated the profits from the book sales to the school.
波兹纳已将图书销售的利润捐赠给了学校。
And she's not sure that they should take it.
她不确定他们是否应该接受它。
He got so many things wrong about Mount Pleasant and offended so many people.
他对芒特普莱森特的看法有很多错误，冒犯了很多人。
But at the same time, with budgets being slashed, it's hard for her to turn her back on any money that might help her students.
但与此同时，随着预算被削减，她很难拒绝任何可能帮助学生的资金。
[MUSIC - "GANGSTA'S PARADISE" BY COOLIO]
[音乐 - COOLIO 的“GANGSTA'S PARADISE”]
Coming up, what refugees halfway around the world know about us thanks to Chevy Chase and other true urban legends.
接下来，世界各地的难民通过切维·蔡斯和其他真实的都市传说了解我们。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, True Urban Legends.
今天的节目是《真实的都市传奇》。
We're wading into the vapory shadows of urban myth to see what is real and what is not.
我们正在涉入都市神话的虚幻阴影，看看什么是真实的，什么不是。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, Fleeing is Believing.
第二幕，逃离即是相信。
Refugees often spend decades in camps waiting, waiting for wars to end back home, waiting to be resettled, some of them to the United States.
难民经常在难民营里等待数十年，等待战争结束回到家乡，等待重新安置，其中一些人去了美国。
This leaves a lot of time to think about what the future might hold and makes for a huge rumor mill fed by third cousins and friends of friends who get to the United States and send back word of what it's like.
这就留下了很多时间来思考未来可能会发生什么，并导致了一个巨大的谣言工厂，这些谣言由远房表兄弟姐妹和朋友的朋友传播，他们到达美国并传回美国的情况。
And that's where the confusion begins.
这就是混乱开始的地方。
Mary Wiltenburg, a reporter who has spent years documenting refugee life in America, has this story.
玛丽·威尔滕伯格（Mary Wiltenburg）是一名记者，多年来一直记录美国难民的生活，她有这样的故事。
Say you're a refugee.
假设你是难民。
Once you've survived whatever hell you fled plus 10 more years in a crowded camp, there are rumors about the US you want to believe.
一旦你从逃离的地狱中幸存下来，再加上在拥挤的营地里呆了十年，就会有关于美国的谣言让你相信。
America is the land of easy money, endless food, plentiful jobs, machines that cook and clean for you.
美国是一片轻松赚钱、源源不断的食物、充足的就业机会以及为你做饭和清洁的机器的土地。
Still, it's not like you'll believe just anything.
不过，你并不是什么都会相信。
The refugees I've talked with say a lot of the rumors they hear seem way too far-fetched to be true.
与我交谈过的难民说，他们听到的很多谣言似乎都太牵强，令人难以置信。
Some people are very fat.
有些人非常胖。
You cannot imagine how fat they are.
你无法想象他们有多胖。
Kissing in public and all of that is normal.
在公共场合接吻，这一切都是正常的。
You shouldn't look.
你不应该看。
You shouldn't be surprised by it.
你不应该对此感到惊讶。
When people grow old in America, as they become seniors, they send them to nursing homes to live in.
在美国，当人们变老时，当他们成为老年人时，他们会把他们送到疗养院居住。
When they go to the beach, they dress up in this swimsuit, which I call it underwear.
当他们去海滩时，他们会穿着这种泳衣，我称之为内衣。
In America, they say white people kiss their dogs, they hold it.
在美国，他们说白人亲吻他们的狗，他们抱着它。
And it's like, that is crazy.
这就像，这太疯狂了。
How can anybody kiss a dog?
怎么会有人亲吻狗呢？
What makes these rumors so unbelievable often is how inscrutable or frightening or taboo they would have been back home.
这些谣言之所以如此令人难以置信，是因为它们在家乡会是多么难以理解、令人恐惧或禁忌。
I never, never thought people would show affection in public.
我从来没想过人们会在公共场合表达爱意。
It was just unbelievable.
这真是令人难以置信。
Faiza Mohamed is Somali and grew up as a refugee in Kenya where the whole idea of PDA was unimaginable especially among unmarried people.
Faiza Mohamed 是索马里人，作为难民在肯尼亚长大，在肯尼亚，PDA 的整个想法是不可想象的，尤其是对于未婚人士来说。
When refugees like her are accepted for resettlement in the US, they're bombarded with information about the country in these three-day orientation marathons that cover everything from fire safety to banking, sexual harassment to how to use an airplane toilet.
当像她这样的难民被接受在美国重新安置时，他们会在为期三天的定向马拉松中受到有关该国的信息轰炸，这些信息涵盖从消防安全到银行、性骚扰到如何使用飞机厕所等各个方面。
Faiza's orientation leader actually mentioned that it's common for American couples to express affection in public.
Faiza的迎新引导者实际上提到，美国情侣在公共场合表达爱意是很常见的。
No, because the person that was giving us the orientation was Somali herself.
不，因为为我们提供指导的人是索马里本人。
So I really didn't even think that she knew the reality of it.
所以我真的不认为她知道事情的真相。
Another problem is Hollywood, the source of some of the most enticing images of America and some of the most exaggerated.
另一个问题是好莱坞，它是美国一些最诱人的形象和一些最夸张的形象的来源。
Sinisa Milovanovic, a refugee from the former Yugoslavia, spent years waiting in Germany before coming to the US.
来自前南斯拉夫的难民西尼萨·米洛万诺维奇 (Sinisa Milovanovic) 在来到美国之前在德国等待了数年。
In Berlin one Christmas, a movie came on TV, National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.
柏林的一个圣诞节，电视上播放了一部电影：《国家讽刺的圣诞假期》。
In case you've been spared the pleasure, it features Chevy Chase as a guy who's, let's say, intense about seasonal decorating.
如果你没有享受到这种乐趣，它以切维·蔡斯为主角，比如说，他热衷于季节性装饰。
He's covered every inch of his house with lights, nests of sparking extension cords, Santa-related [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
他家的每一寸地方都布满了灯光、一排排闪闪发光的延长线，这些都是与圣诞老人有关的[难以理解]。
We're going to have the best looking house in town, Russ.
我们将拥有镇上最漂亮的房子，拉斯。
And when you look at the spoof movies or comedies, they overblow out of the proportion many things just to make it funny.
当你看恶搞电影或喜剧时，他们会夸大很多东西，只是为了让它变得有趣。
And when I saw it, I just thought, oh, this cannot be true.
当我看到它时，我只是想，哦，这不可能是真的。
This is too much light.
这光线太多了。
That's a lot of lights, Dad.
爸爸，那儿有很多灯。
Clark W.
克拉克·W.
Griswold You want something you can be proud of, don't you?
格里斯沃尔德：你想要一些能让你感到自豪的东西，不是吗？
A few after they watched this, Sinisa and his wife moved to Fargo, North Dakota.
观看此视频后不久，西尼萨和他的妻子搬到了北达科他州的法戈。
One night their first winter there, Sinisa got home, and his wife told him she had something to show him outside.
在那里的第一个冬天的一天晚上，西尼萨回到家，他的妻子告诉他，她有东西要给他看外面。
And I didn't know what was it, so we got into the car, and we went around a couple of neighborhoods, residential area.
我不知道那是什么，所以我们上了车，绕了几个街区、住宅区。
And all of a sudden, I saw the whole row of houses.
突然间，我看到了整排房子。
And to me, it seems like every single one of them had some kind of lights on it.
对我来说，似乎每个人身上都亮着某种灯。
Oh Clark, it's so lovely.
噢，克拉克，真是太可爱了。
Sinisa Milovanovic And some people had not only the lights, but they also had the props, snowmen or reindeer and things like that.
Sinisa Milovanovic 有些人不仅有灯光，还有道具、雪人或驯鹿之类的东西。
And we said to each other, they really do decorate their houses as Chevy Chase did.
我们互相说，他们确实像切维·蔡斯那样装饰自己的房子。
You taught me everything I know about exterior illumination.
您教会了我关于外部照明的一切。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Even years later, former refugees recall these moments with incredible clarity.
即使多年后，前难民仍清晰地回忆起这些时刻。
The shock or bewilderment or comedy of realizing, that's true?
意识到这是真的，是震惊、困惑还是喜剧？
People here don't follow soccer?
这里的人不关注足球吗？
Men really date other men?
男人真的和其他男人约会吗？
Americans sleep in bed with their cats?
美国人和他们的猫睡在床上？
A lot of times, the reaction is, whoa, OK.
很多时候，反应是，哇，好吧。
But once in a while, the moment changes a person's whole image of America.
但有时，这个时刻会改变一个人对美国的整体形象。
Hazem Taee, an Iraqi refugee, had heard back home that ordinary Americans could go into stores and buy guns.
伊拉克难民哈齐姆·泰伊 (Hazem Taee) 在家乡听说普通美国人可以去商店购买枪支。
But that seemed incredible.
但这似乎令人难以置信。
How could a country keep law and order if its civilians were armed?
如果一个国家的平民武装起来，如何维持法律和秩序？
Then one day, not long after his family arrived in Phoenix, they pulled up to a stoplight next to a guy on his motorcycle.
然后有一天，就在他的家人到达凤凰城后不久，他们把车停在红绿灯前，旁边是一个骑摩托车的人。
He didn't look like a policeman, but for some reason he had a gun on his belt.
他看起来不像警察，但不知为何他的腰带上别着一把枪。
We looked at him.
我们看着他。
He had a tattoo, a leather jacket with a bird on it on the back and a ponytail.
他有纹身，穿着一件背后有一只鸟的皮夹克，扎着马尾辫。
He didn't look official to us.
在我们看来他并不正式。
Who were you with?
你和谁在一起？
Hazem Taee Me, my wife, and three kids.
Hazem Taee Me、我的妻子和三个孩子。
And I'm advising them not to look, not to look, don't bring his attention, just take a quick look, and don't turn your face.
我建议他们不要看，不要看，不要引起他的注意，只是快速地看一眼，不要转过脸去。
And then, my kids started asking me, why would he have a gun, what is he planning to do?
然后，我的孩子们开始问我，他为什么会有枪，他打算做什么？
And I said, I don't know.
我说，我不知道。
One especially scary rumor, one that refugees from all over the world told me they heard, but couldn't fathom, is that in America, people without homes sleep on the streets.
来自世界各地的难民告诉我，他们听说过但无法理解的一个特别可怕的谣言是，在美国，无家可归的人露宿街头。
When you come from someplace where it would be unthinkably shameful to let that happen to a relative, it's hard to believe.
当你来自一个让这样的事情发生在亲戚身上会是难以想象的耻辱的地方时，你很难相信。
When Haider Hamza arrived in the US from Iraq four years ago, he was sure this was a myth.
四年前，当海德尔·哈姆扎从伊拉克抵达美国时，他确信这只是一个神话。
Then late one night, he went walking in Central Park.
然后一天深夜，他去中央公园散步。
And there was a bench, and I saw an older woman not looking very happy, sleeping on that bench.
那里有一张长凳，我看到一位老妇人睡在长凳上，看上去不太高兴。
And she looked in a pretty bad shape.
而且她的状态看起来很不好。
So I got close, I tried talking to her.
所以我靠近了，我试着和她说话。
And she started asking for help and things like that.
她开始寻求帮助之类的事情。
And I didn't know why she was there.
我不知道她为什么在那里。
I didn't know what happened, so I didn't know what to do.
我不知道发生了什么事，所以我不知道该怎么办。
I picked up the phone, I called 911.
我拿起电话，拨打了911。
A lady answered, and I gave a description of the woman.
一位女士接了电话，我对这位女士进行了描述。
And she said, "Well, is the woman bleeding?" And I went to check, and I said, "No, she's not." And so she said, "Is she naked?" I said, "No, actually." She paused for a second and said, "Well, is she homeless?" And I said, "I don't know." So I walked up to the woman, I said, "Excuse me, ma'am, are you homeless?" And she said, "Of course I'm homeless." So I got up on the phone and said, "Yes, she's homeless."
她说：“那个女人流血了吗？”我去检查了一下，然后说：“不，她不是。”于是她问道：“她赤身裸体吗？”我说：“不，实际上。”她停顿了一下，问道：“那么，她无家可归了吗？”我说：“我不知道。”于是我走到那位女士面前，说道：“请问，女士，您无家可归吗？”她说：“我当然无家可归。”于是我拿起电话说：“是的，她无家可归了。”
No matter who tells you that there are people who are homeless here in the United States, it's impossible to believe.
无论谁告诉你美国有无家可归的人，都难以置信。
That's Hazem, who saw the guy on the motorcycle with the gun.
那是哈泽姆，他看到摩托车上拿着枪的人。
Now he works as a case manager at a resettlement agency, helping fellow refugees transition to American life.
现在，他在一家安置机构担任案件经理，帮助其他难民过渡到美国生活。
A couple of years ago, he told a group of clients that if they missed rent payments or couldn't find a job, they could wind up homeless and have to live in a shelter.
几年前，他告诉一群客户，如果他们拖欠租金或找不到工作，他们可能会无家可归，不得不住在避难所里。
They thought he was lying.
他们认为他在撒谎。
Frustrated, he loaded them into a van and drove them past a homeless shelter in downtown Phoenix with a line out the door.
他沮丧地把他们装进一辆货车，开着他们经过凤凰城市中心的一个无家可归者收容所，门口还排着队。
They were shocked.
他们很震惊。
And they asked me what it is, "Are those really homeless people?
他们问我这是什么，“那些真的是无家可归的人吗？
And I said, "Yes, and you could easily lose your home or apartment.
我说：“是的，你很容易就会失去你的家或公寓。
If you don't pay, you'll be evicted after a few months."
如果你不付钱，几个月后你就会被驱逐。”
It happens so fast.
它发生得太快了。
You come here lost as can be and within a couple of years, you're the ambassador, the friend of a friend fielding calls from overseas in the middle of the night.
你来到这里可能会迷失方向，几年之内，你就成为大使，成为朋友的朋友，在半夜接听来自海外的电话。
You're showing around dazed new arrivals and watching their astonishment at the guns in Walmart, the dogs in handbags, the couples kissing in the park.
你带着茫然的新来者参观，看着他们对沃尔玛里的枪、手提包里的狗、公园里接吻的情侣感到惊讶。
And you're the one telling them, "Don't worry.
而你就是那个告诉他们：“别担心。
Don't stare.
别盯着看。
That's normal here."
这在这里很正常。”
[MUSIC - "BANKING ON A MYTH" BY ANDREW BIRD]
[音乐 - 安德鲁·伯德的《银行神话》]
Act 3, Sleeper Cells.
第三幕，休眠细胞。
The scariest urban myths are the ones that are about stuff that is everywhere, that we use every day, that we can't avoid, that our drinking water might be impure, that there are toxins in our food, that killer earthquakes might be coming to the west coast, that the polar ice caps might melt.
最可怕的城市神话是关于无处不在的、我们每天使用的、我们无法避免的东西的神话，我们的饮用水可能不纯净，我们的食物中含有毒素，西海岸可能会发生致命的地震，极地冰盖可能会融化。
Oh, wait a second, some of those are actually confirmed by scientists.
哦，等一下，其中一些实际上已经被科学家证实了。
Which brings me to cell phones.
这让我想到了手机。
There was an article in GQ Magazine recently about cell phones about whether they're bad for us.
最近《GQ》杂志上有一篇关于手机是否对我们有害的文章。
"The only honest way to think of our cell phones," the article says, "is that they are tiny, low-power microwave ovens, without walls, that we hold to the sides of our heads." Which is true.
文章称：“对我们的手机的唯一诚实的看法是，它们是微型、低功率的微波炉，没有墙壁，我们把它放在头的两侧。”这是真的。
Cell phones and ovens both use the same kinds of waves, microwave frequencies.
手机和烤箱都使用相同类型的波、微波频率。
But, of course, microwave ovens use much, much, much more power, enough to cook meat.
但是，当然，微波炉使用的电力非常非常多，足以煮肉。
And there's lots of research out there that's found no negative effects on our bodies from cell phones.
大量研究发现手机不会对我们的身体产生负面影响。
In fact, there's another article in Harper's Magazine just this month about the same thing, are cell phones bad for us?
事实上，本月《哈泼斯》杂志上还有另一篇文章谈到了同样的事情，手机对我们有害吗？
And that article points out that for all the research that's found that cell phones make us lose sleep, make us think slower, break apart our DNA, cause brain damage in children, there are just as many studies, if not more, that say that cell phones make us more sleepy, make us think faster, don't break our DNA, and don't affect children one way or another.
那篇文章指出，尽管所有研究都发现手机会让我们失眠，让我们思考得更慢，破坏我们的 DNA，对儿童造成大脑损伤，但也有同样多的研究（如果不是更多的话）表明手机会让我们更困，让我们思考得更快，不会破坏我们的 DNA，也不会以某种方式影响儿童。
Other countries, especially in Europe, take the possible threat of cell phones much more seriously than we do here in the US.
其他国家，尤其是欧洲国家，比我们美国更重视手机可能带来的威胁。
Health ministries in Canada, Russia and Finland have asked for restrictions on sales of cell phones to children.
加拿大、俄罗斯和芬兰的卫生部已要求限制向儿童销售手机。
France is trying to ban cell phones in schools.
法国正试图禁止在学校使用手机。
Some European governments are trying to ban wifi in government buildings and on campuses.
一些欧洲政府正试图禁止在政府大楼和校园内使用无线网络。
Wifi also uses those microwave frequencies.
Wifi 也使用这些微波频率。
And the National Library of France already got rid of it.
法国国家图书馆已经摆脱了它。
People have protested and torn down cell towers in Spain, Ireland, Australia, and Israel.
西班牙、爱尔兰、澳大利亚和以色列的人们抗议并拆除了手机信号塔。
In 2007, the European Union's environmental agency warned that cell phone technology "could lead to a health crisis similar to those caused by asbestos, smoking, and lead in petrol." The operative word there, of course, is "could." The weird word is "petrol."
2007年，欧盟环境机构警告称，手机技术“可能导致健康危机，类似于石棉、吸烟和汽油中的铅造成的危机”。当然，这里的关键词是“可以”。奇怪的词是“汽油”。
So what should we believe?
那么我们应该相信什么呢？
Are they bad for us?
它们对我们有害吗？
Or aren't they?
或者不是吗？
Christopher Ketcham, who wrote the GQ article, talked me through some of the most troubling studies.
《GQ》文章的作者克里斯托弗·凯查姆 (Christopher Ketcham) 向我讲述了一些最令人不安的研究。
Now in your article, you lay out a lot of data, a lot of studies.
现在，在你的文章中，你列出了很多数据、很多研究。
What's the most alarming evidence you have?
你拥有的最令人震惊的证据是什么？
Go ahead, scare us.
来吧，吓唬我们。
All right.
好吧。
Well, there's a lot.
嗯，有很多。
There is something called Interphone, which is a 13-country study, European wide and also including Israel, that has been looking at the incidence of brain tumors and tumors generally as related to cell phone use.
有一项名为 Interphone 的研究，是一项针对欧洲 13 个国家（包括以色列）的研究，一直在研究与手机使用相关的脑肿瘤和肿瘤的发病率。
And the big conclusion from that study is that for those users of cell phones who use cell phones for 10 years or more on the same side of the head, there's a 40% increased chance of getting a brain tumor.
这项研究得出的重要结论是，对于那些在头部同一侧使用手机 10 年或更长时间的手机用户来说，患脑瘤的几率会增加 40%。
On that side of the head.
就在头的那一侧。
Probably shaped like a cell phone.
大概形状像手机。
So the--
所以——
All right.
好吧。
That last part you're just making up.
最后一部分是你编造的。
I'm just making it up.
我只是在弥补。
I'm just making it up.
我只是在弥补。
There is an independent Swedish study a couple of years ago found that there was a 420% increased chance of getting brain tumors for those who were using cell phones at age 20 or earlier.
几年前瑞典的一项独立研究发现，20 岁或更早使用手机的人患脑瘤的几率增加 420%。
So four times more chances?
那么四倍的机会？
Christopher Ketcham Yeah, four times more.
Christopher Ketcham 是的，四倍多。
The speculation is that this is because children's or young people's brains are not fully formed.
据推测，这是因为儿童或青少年的大脑尚未完全形成。
Their skulls are thinner so that they absorb more radiation.
他们的头骨更薄，因此可以吸收更多的辐射。
Allan Frey, the neuroscientist who, in many ways, shepherded me through a lot of the early studies, when he was working for the Office of Naval Research in the 1970s, he found that cell-phone-type radiation could cause blood brain barrier leakage.
神经科学家艾伦·弗雷 (Allan Frey) 在很多方面指导我完成了许多早期研究，20 世纪 70 年代他在海军研究办公室工作时，他发现手机类型的辐射可能会导致血脑屏障渗漏。
That is, it could cause perforations in the barrier between the circulatory system and the brain.
也就是说，它可能会导致循环系统和大脑之间的屏障穿孔。
Now that's really bad news.
现在这真是个坏消息。
OK, give me another.
好的，再给我一个。
Christopher Ketcham Well, for example, a researcher biologist named Henry Lai at the University of Washington found that after two hours of exposure to microwave frequencies--
克里斯托弗·凯查姆 (Christopher Ketcham) 举例来说，华盛顿大学一位名叫亨利·赖 (Henry Lai) 的生物学家研究员发现，在暴露于微波频率两个小时后——
At the level that comes out of a cell phone.
达到手机的水平。
At the level that comes out of a cell phone, you can have DNA damage.
在手机中产生的水平上，您可能会受到 DNA 损伤。
After two hours, it's double-strand breakage in DNA.
两个小时后，DNA双链断裂。
Now so these are the studies that show that we do have reason to worry.
这些研究表明我们确实有理由担心。
Aren't there a lot of other studies on the other side saying, like, no, no, no, we don't have to worry.
不是有很多其他研究在说，不，不，不，我们不必担心。
Oh yeah, there are lots and lots of studies showing that.
哦，是的，有很多很多研究表明这一点。
And the really interesting thing to me is that if you divide the many, many studies on this subject about the biological effects of cell phones radiation--
对我来说真正有趣的是，如果你把关于手机辐射的生物效应这个主题的很多很多研究分开——
It's hundreds of studies, hundreds of studies over the years.
多年来有数百项研究。
When you look at these studies and divide them by funding, you'll find that 75% of those studies that were independently funded-- that is, that had no funding from industry--
当您查看这些研究并将其按资助情况进行划分时，您会发现 75% 的研究是独立资助的（也就是说，没有来自行业的资助）
The Nokias, the Ericssons, just the telecom industry generally.
诺基亚、爱立信，一般来说就是电信行业。
You find that 75% of those studies show some type of effect.
您发现 75% 的研究显示出某种类型的效果。
Those studies--
那些研究——
Wait, wait.
等等，等等。
Let me just-- So in other words, if there's no funding from telephone companies or people associated with them, 75% of the studies show, yes, the electromagnetic signals out of cell phones actually do affect our cells.
换句话说，如果没有电话公司或相关人员的资助，75% 的研究表明，是的，手机发出的电磁信号确实会影响我们的细胞。
They have a biological effect.
它们具有生物效应。
OK.
好的。
Yes.
是的。
Now if you pool the studies that are funded by the industry, you find that only 25% of those studies show a biological effect.
现在，如果您将行业资助的研究汇总起来，您会发现其中只有 25% 的研究显示出生物效应。
So there appears to be-- and the argument has been among the scientists who I interviewed-- there appears to be a skewing, a data skewing, that is related to the source of funding.
因此，似乎——我采访的科学家们一直在争论——似乎存在与资金来源有关的偏差、数据偏差。
Now the EPA used to look into this to see the environmental effect of this kind of radiation.
现在美国环保局曾经对此进行调查，以了解这种辐射对环境的影响。
But you're right that it stopped.
但你说得对，它停止了。
Talk about why it stopped.
谈谈为什么停止了。
Well, what happened is in the 1970s, there was serious laboratory research into the biological effects of microwave radiation.
嗯，发生的事情是在 20 世纪 70 年代，实验室对微波辐射的生物效应进行了认真的研究。
EPA was foremost in this.
EPA 在这方面处于领先地位。
You also had NIOSH.
你也有 NIOSH。
National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health?
国家职业安全与健康研究所？
Yes.
是的。
And also FDA, Food and Drug Administration.
还有FDA，食品和药物管理局。
These were all agencies that were studying these effects.
这些都是正在研究这些影响的机构。
And then the Reagan administration came into office, Star Wars, these huge radar-operated--
然后里根政府上台，星球大战，这些巨大的雷达操作的——
This is all the 1980s, yeah.
这就是整个 20 世纪 80 年代，是的。
Christopher Ketcham This is all the 1980s.
Christopher Ketcham 这就是整个 20 世纪 80 年代。
Radar-operated missile defense systems were to be implemented.
将实施雷达导弹防御系统。
And military interests-- Westinghouse and Boeing and huge-- that produce all sorts of the radar systems for the military-- along with the military pressured Congress to pressure EPA to stop this kind of research.
军事利益集团——西屋公司和波音公司——为军队生产各种雷达系统——与军方一起向国会施压，要求美国环保局停止此类研究。
This is what your sources inside the EPA told you?
这是你的环保局内部消息人士告诉你的吗？
Yes, this is what my sources inside the EPA said.
是的，这是我在 EPA 内部的消息来源所说的。
And funding was taken away from the EPA.
美国环保署的资金也被取消。
Funding was taken away from the FDA.
FDA 的资金被取消。
And those researchers, those civilian scientists who were looking into this, were told, listen you don't need to look into this anymore, we're going to handle it in the Air Force.
那些研究人员，那些正在研究这个问题的民间科学家被告知，听着，你不需要再研究这个问题了，我们将在空军中处理它。
And right now, which federal agency is responsible for making sure that our cell phones aren't killing us?
现在，哪个联邦机构负责确保我们的手机不会杀死我们？
And Slesin is?
斯莱辛是吗？
Christopher Ketcham Louis Slesin is the publisher of Microwave News.
克里斯托弗·凯查姆·路易斯·斯莱辛是《微波新闻》的出版商。
He's, I think, one of the foremost experts on the various studies.
我认为他是各项研究领域最重要的专家之一。
Let me just read what he said.
让我读一下他说的话。
He said, "The committees setting the EM-- the electromagnetic-- safety levels historically have been dominated by representatives from the military, by companies like Raytheon and General Electric, by the telecom companies, and now by the cell phone industry." Slesin tells me that it is basically a Trojan horse for the private sector to dictate public policy.
他说：“历史上，制定 EM（电磁）安全级别的委员会一直由来自军方、雷神公司和通用电气等公司、电信公司的代表主导，现在则由手机行业的代表主导。”斯莱辛告诉我，这基本上是私营部门决定公共政策的特洛伊木马。
OK.
好的。
So I remember when cell phones first came out, and there were scare stories about whether or not they were harmful and whether they might cause brain tumors.
所以我记得当手机刚问世时，有关于它们是否有害以及是否会导致脑肿瘤的恐怖故事。
And at that point in the '90s, it was all very speculative.
在 20 世纪 90 年代的那个时候，这一切都充满了猜测。
And then it seemed like those stories went away.
然后这些故事似乎就消失了。
And I, as somebody just like reading the news, I just thought like, well, I guess that means that there's nothing to worry about.
而我，作为一个喜欢阅读新闻的人，我只是想，好吧，我想这意味着没有什么可担心的。
Are you saying, yes, we now know cell phones do give us brain tumors?
您是说，是的，我们现在知道手机确实会导致脑肿瘤吗？
Or are you saying, yes, we now know we need to worry that there's not enough research to know they're safe?
或者你是说，是的，我们现在知道我们需要担心没有足够的研究来知道它们是安全的？
The latter.
后者。
Listen, even the FDA will tell you.
听着，即使 FDA 也会告诉你。
Their official notice on this issue is that we, the FDA, are not certain about the safety of these devices.
他们关于这个问题的官方通知是，我们 FDA 不确定这些设备的安全性。
But at the same time, the FDA will say, but, there doesn't appear to be a risk either.
但与此同时，FDA 会说，但是，似乎也不存在风险。
So they hedge it.
所以他们对冲它。
So if the safety isn't clear, but then they have like hundreds of millions of them out being used, so it's just like a big science experiment.
因此，如果安全性尚不清楚，但他们已经有数亿个这样的产品被使用，所以这就像一个大型科学实验。
Huge science experiment.
巨大的科学实验。
One of the scientists who I interviewed, Leif Salford, this Swedish neuroscientist, said, This is the largest human biological experiment ever because we really don't know what the effects are going to be, what the long-term effects are going to be, what the short-term effects are going to be.
我采访的科学家之一、瑞典神经科学家莱夫·索尔福德 (Leif Salford) 说，这是有史以来最大规模的人体生物实验，因为我们真的不知道会产生什么影响、长期影响会是什么、短期影响会是什么。
And is this one of these things where we don't know the answer, but lots of people are looking into it, and a lot of money is going into it to figure this out?
这是否是我们不知道答案但很多人正在研究它并且投入大量资金来解决这个问题的事情之一？
Or is this one of these things where we don't know the answer?
或者这是我们不知道答案的事情之一？
And really nobody-- like, not much money is really going into this to figure this out?
真的没有人——比如，没有多少钱真正投入到这个问题上来解决这个问题？
In this country, there is almost-- there is nothing is going on.
在这个国家，几乎什么都没有发生。
There's just almost no research.
几乎没有研究。
In Europe, there's a lot of research.
在欧洲，有很多研究。
In Israel, which has one of the highest per capita uses of cell phones, there's a lot of research.
以色列是人均手机使用量最高的国家之一，这里有大量的研究。
In Sweden, home of Ericsson, a lot of research.
在爱立信的故乡瑞典，进行了大量的研究。
Now how did you get into the subject?
现在你是如何进入主题的？
Did you know somebody who-- How did you get into this?
你认识的人——你是怎么进入这个行业的吗？
My daughter's grandmother bought her a cell phone in France, in Paris.
我女儿的祖母在法国巴黎给她买了一部手机。
And at the same time, I saw a little notice in Le Monde about-- it was a little, tiny notice buried deep in the paper about possible risks from cell phones.
与此同时，我在《世界报》上看到了一个小通知——这是一个埋在报纸深处的小通知，内容是关于手机可能带来的风险。
And I said, wait a minute, let me start looking into this.
我说，等一下，让我开始调查这个问题。
And given all that you've learned, have-- your daughter is a teenager?
鉴于您所学到的一切，您的女儿已经十几岁了吗？
She's 14.
她14岁了。
Ira Glass So have you tried to talk her into not using her cell phone?
Ira Glass 那么你有没有试图说服她不要使用手机？
Oh, I talk to her all the time.
哦，我一直和她说话。
I'm always yelling at her.
我总是对她大喊大叫。
And how does that go?
进展如何？
Christopher Ketcham Badly.
克里斯托弗·凯查姆 糟糕。
[LAUGHTER] Christopher Ketcham She now uses it to text most often.
[笑声] Christopher Ketcham 她现在最常使用它来发短信。
But sometimes I catch her on it.
但有时我会抓住她。
And I get really pissed off.
我真的很生气。
And that is, I catch her with it to her ear.
也就是说，我把它放在她耳边接住了她。
And I say, "No, if you're going to use it, you have to use your speaker phone.
我说：“不，如果你要使用它，你必须使用免提电话。
If you're going to keep it near your body, it has to be off."
如果你想让它靠近你的身体，它就必须关闭。”
Well, do you think that she believes you that the cell phone is dangerous?
那么，你认为她相信你手机有危险吗？
I'm not sure.
我不确定。
I'm not sure.
我不确定。
That's the problem.
这就是问题所在。
I don't know if she believes me.
我不知道她是否相信我。
And so, given your success with your own child, how do you feel about your chances of success writing articles and convincing other people to put down their cell phones?
那么，鉴于您在自己的孩子身上取得了成功，您对撰写文章并说服其他人放下手机的成功机会有何看法？
Oh, most people think I'm crazy.
哦，大多数人都认为我疯了。
Most people think I'm absolutely bonkers.
大多数人认为我绝对是个疯子。
They just dismiss outright what I have to say.
他们只是彻底驳回我要说的话。
Dismiss it like won't even listen to the evidence?
像不听证据一样驳回它？
No, they will listen to the evidence.
不，他们会听取证据。
And then they'll call their friend to tell them about it on their cell phone.
然后他们会打电话给他们的朋友，用手机告诉他们这件事。
It's like--
这就像——
[LAUGHTER] Christopher Ketcham So, you know, they don't care.
[笑声] Christopher Ketcham 所以，你知道，他们不在乎。
They just-- One time I was in an elevator coming down, and some guy was pecking away on his cell phone, then put it to his head.
他们只是——有一次我在电梯里下来，有一个人在他的手机上啄食，然后把它放在他的头上。
And I mentioned it.
我提到过。
What did you say?
你说什么？
Wait, what did you say?
等等，你说什么？
I said to him, "You know that device could be very dangerous for you." And I don't know why I said that.
我对他说：“你知道那个装置对你来说可能非常危险。”而且我也不知道我为什么这么说。
I guess I was just being nosy and being tiresome and-- And the whole car just started laughing.
我想我只是多管闲事，很烦人，然后——然后全车都开始大笑。
They just start laughing.
他们只是开始大笑。
They're like, yeah, yeah, you know.
他们就像，是的，是的，你知道。
And I think they were laughing at me.
我认为他们在嘲笑我。
Christopher Ketcham is an investigative reporter.
克里斯托弗·凯查姆 (Christopher Ketcham) 是一名调查记者。
We linked to his GQ article at our website.
我们在我们的网站上链接了他的《GQ》文章。
[MUSIC - "TRUTH IS" BY BROTHER ALI]
[音乐 - 阿里兄弟的《真相是》]
Our program is produced today by Sarah Koenig with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Sarah Koenig 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Jane Feltes、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Seth Lind is our production manager.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的生产经理。
Emily Condon is our office manager.
艾米丽·康登 (Emily Condon) 是我们的办公室经理。
Production help from Brian Reed.
布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 提供制作帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
For this week, you can see the raw data that we think contradicts Steve Poizner's findings at Mount Pleasant.
本周，您可以看到我们认为与史蒂夫·波兹纳在芒特普莱森特的发现相矛盾的原始数据。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss Mr. Torey Malatia, who wants all of us here at WBEZ to get back to our exercise programs, back on the stair machine.
WBEZ 的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的计划进行了管理监督，他希望 WBEZ 的所有人都能回到我们的锻炼计划，回到楼梯机上。
Summer is coming.
夏天来了。
Some people are very fat.
有些人非常胖。
You cannot imagine how fat they are.
你无法想象他们有多胖。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "TRUTH IS" BY BROTHER ALI]
[音乐 - 阿里兄弟的《真相是》]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。