372: The Inauguration Show - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #372 | January 16, 2009 372: The Inauguration Show Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 372 集 | 2009 年 1 月 16 日 372：就职典礼表演 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass This was not the most important speech Barack Obama gave in November.

序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这并不是巴拉克·奥巴马 11 月份最重要的演讲。

It didn't get much press coverage.

它没有得到太多媒体报道。

In fact, it wasn't even important enough for Barack Obama to show up in person to deliver.

事实上，这甚至还没有重要到巴拉克·奥巴马(Barack Obama)亲自出面发表讲话的程度。

He pre-taped a video.

他预先录制了一段视频。

But for the people who saw this speech, it was a big, big deal.

但对于看到这篇演讲的人来说，这是一件非常非常大的事情。

This was at the opening session of an international conference on global warming that had been convened in Los Angeles by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

这是州长阿诺·施瓦辛格在洛杉矶召开的全球变暖国际会议的开幕式。

Mary Nichols is in charge of creating California's climate change policies and is close to some people in the Obama camp.

玛丽·尼科尔斯负责制定加州的气候变化政策，与奥巴马阵营的一些人关系密切。

So she was one of the few people attending who knew that the video was on the program.

所以她是少数知道该视频出现在节目中的参加者之一。

Barack Obama had just been elected two weeks before.

巴拉克·奥巴马两周前刚刚当选。

A lot of us were still kind of absorbing the reality that we actually were going to have a new president.

我们中的很多人仍然在接受这样一个现实：我们实际上将有一位新总统。

And I really wasn't expecting much more than a welcome, and congratulations, and I'm so glad you're doing this, kind of message.

我真的没想到更多的只是欢迎和祝贺，我很高兴你能发出这样的信息。

I really wasn't expecting anything of substance.

我真的没有期待任何实质性的东西。

So we're in this gigantic ballroom.

所以我们在这个巨大的舞厅里。

And there's hundreds of people from all over the world.

还有来自世界各地的数百人。

--from, I believe, over 50 states, provinces, and countries.

——我相信，来自 50 多个州、省和国家。

This is Anthony Eggert, a senior policy adviser for the California Air Resources Board.

我是安东尼·艾格特，加州空气资源委员会的高级政策顾问。

Governor Schwarzenegger basically introduced the conference, welcomed the delegates--

施瓦辛格州长基本上介绍了会议，欢迎代表们——

--want to welcome you all to the Governor's Global Climate Summit.

——欢迎大家参加州长全球气候峰会。

This is a historic--

这是历史性的——

--and then said we have a welcome message from our president-elect.

——然后说我们收到了当选总统的欢迎致辞。

--introduce a video from our President-elect Barack Obama, just to show to you--

--介绍我们当选总统巴拉克·奥巴马的视频，只是为了向您展示--

And then the video comes up.

然后视频出现了。

There's Barack Obama just facing the camera and starting to talk.

巴拉克·奥巴马 (Barack Obama) 正对着镜头开始讲话。

When I heard him come on it was really shocking.

当我听到他出现的时候，真的很震惊。

Lucia Green-Weiskel works promoting low-carbon policies in China.

Lucia Green-Weiskel 致力于推动中国的低碳政策。

And she attended the conference with the Chinese delegation.

她并随中国代表团出席了会议。

Because I had been listening really carefully throughout the entire campaign about his position on climate change and frankly hadn't heard a whole lot of very specific commitments.

因为我在整个竞选过程中一直非常仔细地聆听他对气候变化的立场，坦率地说，没有听到很多非常具体的承诺。

And he didn't spend a lot of time on it, from my perspective.

从我的角度来看，他并没有花很多时间在这上面。

And I wanted him to say, this is the most important thing.

我想让他说，这是最重要的事情。

And he didn't say that.

他没有这么说。

But then all of a sudden, he seemed to be saying that.

但突然间，他似乎就这么说了。

Few challenges facing America, and the world, are more urgent than combating climate change.

美国和世界面临的挑战没有什么比应对气候变化更紧迫的了。

The science is beyond dispute and the facts are clear.

科学是无可争议的，事实是清楚的。

Did you have any reaction when he said, "the science is beyond dispute?"

当他说“科学是无可争议的”时，你有什么反应吗？

I thought some people in the Bush White House might be like, hey, wait a minute.

我认为布什白宫的一些人可能会说，嘿，等一下。

That's not what we were saying.

我们不是这么说的。

In fact, everything about the way the speech was heard had to do with the last eight years and President Bush.

事实上，有关演讲方式的一切都与过去八年和布什总统有关。

President Bush, of course, did not acknowledge that human beings had anything to do with global warming until 2005, his second term.

当然，布什总统直到2005年他的第二个任期才承认人类与全球变暖有任何关系。

And even then, he didn't do much to fix the problem.

即便如此，他也没有采取太多措施来解决这个问题。

In fact, his administration tried to block others from taking action.

事实上，他的政府试图阻止其他人采取行动。

When California policymakers like Mary Nichols created regulations to curb greenhouse gases in their own state, the Bush administration went out of its way to strike down those state laws.

当玛丽·尼科尔斯等加州政策制定者制定了限制本州温室气体排放的法规时，布什政府不遗余力地废除了这些州法律。

And all of this informed how everybody in this room heard this speech.

所有这些都告诉了这个房间里的每个人如何听到这次演讲。

I think there was a huge amount of pent-up frustration and anger.

我认为有大量被压抑的挫败感和愤怒。

And now it was actually OK to say, it really is over.

现在可以说，真的结束了。

And once I take office, you can be sure that the United States will once again engage vigorously and help lead the world toward a new era of global cooperation on climate change.

一旦我上任，可以肯定的是，美国将再次积极参与并帮助引领世界进入气候变化全球合作的新时代。

Now's the time to confront this challenge once and for all.

现在是彻底应对这一挑战的时候了。

Part of what's striking about this video is he is very emphatic.

这段视频的引人注目之处在于他的语气非常强调。

He says, now is the time to confront this.

他说，现在是面对这个问题的时候了。

He says, delay is no longer an option.

他说，拖延不再是一种选择。

Denial is no longer an option.

否认不再是一种选择。

When he was saying those things, what did you feel?

当他说这些话的时候，你有什么感受？

Well, it was amazement.

嗯，真是令人惊讶。

Because I never thought that I would hear someone who was the elected president of the United States saying those words.

因为我从来没有想过我会听到一个美国当选总统说这样的话。

It was pretty emotional and pretty stunning in a lot of ways.

从很多方面来说，这都是非常感人且令人惊叹的。

And especially in the context of being among this Chinese delegation, I felt, wow, we elected this guy.

尤其是在这个中国代表团的背景下，我觉得，哇，我们选了这个人。

And I'm proud.

我很自豪。

If I remember correctly, I may have actually done a fist pump.

如果我没记错的话，我可能真的做了握拳动作。

You did a fist pump to a video, a pre-taped video?

你对着一段视频（预先录制的视频）挥拳？

I have to admit that I did, yes.

我必须承认我做到了，是的。

Again, this was really a watershed moment in my career.

再说一遍，这确实是我职业生涯的分水岭。

As a professional, I had never felt that way.

作为一名专业人士，我从未有过这样的感觉。

Because I've only been working as an environmentalist under Bush.

因为我只是在布什领导下担任环保主义者。

There were people crying.

有人哭了。

I had tears in my eyes, too.

我的眼里也含着泪水。

I can't deny it.

我无法否认。

Really?

真的吗？

I have to say, you're a former federal official.

我不得不说，你是前联邦官员。

I mean, you're a hard-boiled government--

我的意思是，你们是一个冷酷无情的政府——

I am.

我是。

Yeah, well, I don't know how hard-boiled.

是的，好吧，我不知道有多冷酷。

But it's true.

但这是真的。

We don't do a lot of crying in public.

我们很少在公共场合哭泣。

But this was a very emotional moment.

但这是一个非常激动人心的时刻。

There's no question about it.

毫无疑问。

It was just a ray of hope.

这只是一线希望。

We clapped.

我们鼓掌。

And they you have to stop really fast.

你必须很快停下来。

Because it's a video.

因为它是视频。

And he keeps talking.

他一直在说话。

And then, you also want to hear what he's going to say.

然后，你也想听听他要说什么。

So it was kind of awkward applause-- very enthusiastic, but then very short.

所以这是一种尴尬的掌声——非常热烈，但很短。

Barack Obama even laid out, in more detail than they'd ever heard, specific targets for reducing greenhouse gases.

巴拉克·奥巴马甚至比他们听过的更详细地制定了减少温室气体排放的具体目标。

And he concluded with just kind of a simple thanks.

最后他只说了一句简单的感谢。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Anthony Eggert And there was a pause.

安东尼·艾格特 然后停顿了一下。

And then everybody just stood up and gave this standing ovation which again, is also, I guess, intriguing.

然后每个人都站起来并起立鼓掌，我想这也很有趣。

Because this is a video address.

因为这是视频地址。

Right.

正确的。

He's on videotape.

他在录像带上。

He doesn't know that you're standing up and clapping.

他不知道你站起来鼓掌。

Exactly, exactly.

完全正确。

But I think it was just everybody was just so enthusiastic they couldn't help themselves.

但我认为只是每个人都太热情了以至于无法控制自己。

All of a sudden, the world seemed like a place where countries could come together and be productive again.

突然之间，世界似乎成为各国可以团结起来并再次富有成效的地方。

In general, people who are drawn to working in the environment are not usually optimistic.

一般来说，喜欢在环境中工作的人通常并不乐观。

They're used to thinking about all the bad things that are going to happen, and fighting for every bit of ground.

他们习惯于思考所有将要发生的坏事，并为每一寸土地而战。

So this is one of those rare opportunities.

所以这是难得的机会之一。

To hear somebody who has the youth and the eloquence of Obama taking on this issue so clearly and strongly was just overwhelming.

听到一个像奥巴马那样年轻、有口才的人如此清晰而强烈地讨论这个问题，真是令人难以抗拒。

There are lots of people waiting for very specific things from Barack Obama.

有很多人在等待巴拉克·奥巴马提出非常具体的事情。

And since November, I think a lot of them have had moments like this one, where they realize, oh my God, this new guy really is president.

自十一月以来，我想他们中的很多人都经历过这样的时刻，他们意识到，天哪，这个新人真的是总统。

And things might change.

事情可能会改变。

And of course, there are other people who do not welcome that change at all.

当然，还有其他人根本不欢迎这种变化。

And so today, the weekend before Barack Obama's inauguration as president, we have collected voices from all over the country, people talking about what's going to happen next with this new president who has raised so many hopes.

因此，今天，在巴拉克·奥巴马就任总统前的周末，我们收集了来自全国各地的声音，人们在谈论这位给人们带来如此多希望的新总统接下来会发生什么。

Where are we heading together, you and me and everybody else in our country, after this January 20?

1 月 20 日之后，你、我以及我们国家的其他所有人，我们将一起前往何处？

Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.

好吧，这是芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

We have many, many people speaking about this today.

今天我们有很多很多人谈论这个。

The show is jam packed.

演出现场座无虚席。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

Act One, All Your Base are Belong to Him.

第一幕，你所有的基地都属于他。

So there are hundreds of thousands of Americans who aren't just getting a new president on Tuesday.

因此，还有数十万美国人不会在周二选出新总统。

People who work for the federal government, people in the military, are also getting a new boss.

为联邦政府工作的人，军队里的人，也有了新的老板。

The newspaper Military Times did a survey of about 2,000 active-duty servicemen and women, which asked about the coming change.

《军事时报》对大约 2000 名现役军人进行了一项调查，询问即将发生的变化。

A third of the respondents said that they were optimistic about Barack Obama as Commander in Chief.

三分之一的受访者表示，他们对巴拉克·奥巴马担任三军总司令持乐观态度。

Another third were uncertain.

另外三分之一不确定。

About 25% were pessimistic.

大约25%的人持悲观态度。

Presented with the statement, as president, Barack Obama will have my best interests at heart, 36% agreed with the statement.

这份声明提出后，作为总统，巴拉克·奥巴马将把自己的最大利益放在心上，36%的人同意这份声明。

43% disagreed.

43% 的人不同意。

President Bush, by the way, does modestly better than Barack Obama on that one.

顺便说一句，布什总统在这一点上比巴拉克·奥巴马（Barack Obama）做得稍好一些。

49% agree that he is their best interests at heart, versus Obama's 36%.

49% 的人认为他将他们的最大利益放在心上，而奥巴马的这一比例为 36%。

Reporter Peter Biello dropped in on the Pro Cuts Barber Shop in Jacksonville, North Carolina, just across the highway from the Marine Corps' Camp Lejeune.

记者彼得·比洛 (Peter Biello) 顺便拜访了北卡罗来纳州杰克逊维尔的 Pro Cuts 理发店，该店位于海军陆战队勒琼营 (Camp Lejeune) 高速公路对面。

Peter talked to some of the Marines who were getting their hair trimmed.

彼得与一些正在修剪头发的海军陆战队员交谈。

At first, I was a little concerned.

起初，我有点担心。

I'm very conservative in nature.

我的性格非常保守。

My father's very conservative, as I am, but my sisters and my mothers are all about the change.

我的父亲和我一样非常保守，但我的姐妹和母亲都支持改变。

So they're pretty up for it.

所以他们已经做好了准备。

So for a while there, it was pretty rough.

所以有一段时间，那里的情况相当艰难。

Election night wasn't a good night in the family.

选举之夜对于这个家庭来说并不是一个美好的夜晚。

There were a lot of arguments and stuff like that.

有很多争论之类的事情。

But it was more on my part.

但这更多是我的事情。

I was upset about them voting for him.

我对他们投票给他感到不安。

But I'm reading his book, and I'm kind of getting a better grasp of what he's really about.

但我正在读他的书，我对他的真正含义有了更好的了解。

And it's a lot more promising than the media made it out to be.

而且它比媒体报道的更有希望。

So--

所以——

Most Marines are against him, just because of the whole Don't Ask, Don't Tell thing that's coming out.

大多数海军陆战队员都反对他，只是因为即将出现的“不要问，不要说”的事情。

But it's his choice so I'll go with it.

但这是他的选择，所以我会同意。

He's my boss, well, soon to be my boss.

他是我的老板，嗯，很快就会成为我的老板。

But I really hope he does well for us.

但我真的希望他为我们做得很好。

I've been to Iraq three times and Afghanistan once.

我去过伊拉克三次，阿富汗一次。

I was in Afghanistan in 2002.

2002年我在阿富汗。

And I was in Iraq in 2003, 2005 and 2007.

2003年、2005年和2007年我都在伊拉克。

And through the deployments, I've seen tons of changes, as far as our equipment.

通过部署，我看到了我们的设备发生了大量变化。

2003, when we were over there, we had no armored vehicles.

2003年，当我们在那里时，我们没有装甲车。

That's for the initial assault all the way up to Baghdad, no armor on anything.

这是对巴格达的最初攻击，没有任何装甲。

And 2005, we started to get armor kits put onto our existing vehicles.

2005 年，我们开始将装甲套件安装到现有车辆上。

And when we were over there in 2007, now the vehicles are coming up armored.

当我们 2007 年去那里时，现在车辆都配备了装甲。

So they're not as cumbersome-- trying to put 5,000 pounds of armor on a vehicle that's not meant to take it.

因此，他们并没有那么麻烦——试图将 5,000 磅的装甲装在一辆本来不应该承受的车辆上。

And there have been advances.

并且已经取得了进展。

I think that those will continue to happen.

我认为这些将会继续发生。

And I don't think that he really has-- if he cuts defense budgeting, I think that money will still flow towards those avenues.

我不认为他真的这么做了——如果他削减国防预算，我认为资金仍然会流向这些途径。

Politicians can say a lot of different things.

政治家可以说很多不同的话。

And it just-- they don't really have as much control as they think they do.

只是——他们实际上并没有像他们想象的那样拥有那么多的控制权。

That was Corporal David Weiss, and before him, Corporal Courtney Godsoe, and Corey Williamson, who is a Lance Corporal, all of them in the Marine Corps.

那是大卫·韦斯下士，在他之前是考特尼·戈德索下士和准下士科里·威廉姆森，他们都在海军陆战队。

We also visited with some military people who have direct contact with policymakers and hope to be dealing with the new White House.

我们还拜访了一些与政策制定者有直接接触并希望与新白宫打交道的军方人士。

Nancy Updike went to the office of a veterans organization called IAVA, the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

南希·厄普代克去了一个名为 IAVA（美国伊拉克和阿富汗退伍军人）的退伍军人组织的办公室。

It was started by a small group of Iraq war vets back in 2004, partly to lobby for body armor and other safety equipment for deploying service members.

它是由一小群伊拉克战争老兵于 2004 年发起的，部分目的是游说为部署军人提供防弹衣和其他安全装备。

Now they take on a range of veterans issues, and they've been fiercely opposed to some of the Bush administration's policies, though the organization is nonpartisan and it's politically diverse, with a core of active and former military service members.

现在，他们处理一系列退伍军人问题，并且强烈反对布什政府的一些政策，尽管该组织是无党派的，政治上多元化，核心是现役和退役军人。

Here's Nancy.

这是南希。

Everyone inside this tiny office is under 35, for instance, Todd Bowers, the Director of Government Affairs, who's 29.

这个小办公室里的每个人都在 35 岁以下，例如政府事务总监托德·鲍尔斯 (Todd Bowers)，他 29 岁。

I have a lot of friends that are Republicans.

我有很多朋友是共和党人。

Myself, I'm a Republican.

我本人是一名共和党人。

Eight years ago, Todd volunteered for the McCain campaign.

八年前，托德自愿参加麦凯恩的竞选活动。

He's a staff sergeant with the Marine Corps Reserves.

他是海军陆战队预备役的一名上士。

He'll be heading to Afghanistan in March.

他将于三月份前往阿富汗。

He described the extensive conversations he had with his dad--

他描述了他与父亲进行的广泛交谈——

Both my father and I tend to lean to the right.

我和我父亲都倾向于向右倾斜。

--all through the election, right up to election night.

——整个选举过程，直到选举之夜。

He would say, who is this Obama guy?

他会说，这个奥巴马家伙是谁？

Like, I don't understand how this is even a competition.

就像，我不明白这怎么会是一场比赛。

What's going on here?

这是怎么回事？

And I remember speaking to him on election night, after Obama was elected.

我记得在奥巴马当选后的选举之夜与他交谈过。

And I called my dad, and I said, hey man, what's going on?

我打电话给我爸爸，我说，嘿，伙计，发生了什么事？

And he said, well, I got to tell you the people have spoken.

他说，好吧，我必须告诉你人们已经发声了。

And my dad is the most right wing guy that's out there.

我爸爸是最右翼的人。

I mean, he's got assault rifles, lifetime NRA membership.

我的意思是，他有突击步枪，并且是全国步枪协会的终身会员。

My dad hasn't been won over by any means.

我父亲无论如何也没有被说服。

I'm not going to say that.

我不会这么说。

But he is definitely stepping back and just going to watch now.

但他现在肯定会退后一步，只是去观看。

He's not going to yell and scream.

他不会大喊大叫。

That sounds like that's a different stance for your dad, that if it had been somebody else, he wouldn't have even given a chance to sit back and watch.

这听起来对你父亲来说是一个不同的立场，如果是其他人，他甚至不会给你坐下来观看的机会。

No, he definitely would be clobbering it and saying, everything's going to fall apart.

不，他肯定会痛斥它并说，一切都会崩溃。

It's done.

完成了。

Like, I can't believe this guy got elected.

就像，我不敢相信这个人当选了。

He's going to screw it all up.

他会把这一切搞砸的。

He's not doing that.

他没有那样做。

Todd is willing to go even further than his dad.

托德愿意比他父亲走得更远。

He's hopeful about the incoming administration, to his own surprise.

他对即将上任的政府充满希望，这令他自己感到惊讶。

But after two tours in Iraq, and almost two years lobbying for veterans issues, he's also got a list of things he wants to see get done fast.

但在两次伊拉克之行以及近两年的退伍军人问题游说之后，他还列出了一份他希望看到快速完成的事情清单。

Number one--

第一——

Mental health injuries.

心理健康伤害。

If I get shot in the field, which I have been, you put a bandage on it.

如果我在战场上中枪——我也曾经历过——你就会用绷带包扎它。

And you heal from your injuries.

你的伤势就会痊愈。

Mental health is the same thing.

心理健康也是一样。

Todd's challenge to the Obama administration is for them to set up mandatory, face-to-face, mental health counseling for all military service members before and after deployment, by the time he gets back from his deployment in December.

托德向奥巴马政府提出的挑战是，在他 12 月退役时，他们必须在部署前后为所有军人提供强制性的、面对面的心理健康咨询。

And mental health in the military is not just some abstract policy issue in this office.

军队的心理健康不仅仅是这个办公室的一些抽象政策问题。

Patrick Campbell sits behind Todd, a few feet away.

帕特里克·坎贝尔坐在托德身后，距离他几英尺远。

When I came home from Iraq, I didn't know I had a problem.

当我从伊拉克回来时，我不知道自己遇到了问题。

And it was only after I lost a couple friends and a couple other, better friends said to me, if you don't get counseling, I'm never going to talk to you again.

直到我失去了几个朋友和其他几个更好的朋友对我说，如果你不接受咨询，我永远不会再和你说话。

And since I've come home, two of my fellow service members have committed suicide.

自从我回家后，我的两名战友自杀了。

Patrick is a 31-year-old combat medic with the DC National Guard, also the chief legislative counsel for IAVA.

帕特里克 (Patrick) 31 岁，是华盛顿特区国民警卫队的一名战地医务人员，也是 IAVA 的首席立法顾问。

He did a yearlong stint in Iraq.

他在伊拉克工作了一年。

He's actually been tapped to be on sick call during the inauguration for the national guardsmen who will be working security.

事实上，他被任命在就职典礼期间为国民警卫队值班，负责保安工作。

After the inauguration, he has a big decision to make.

就职后，他要做出一个重大决定。

I actually have to decide if I'm going to reenlist.

我实际上必须决定是否要重新入伍。

And if I do reenlist, I have to go back to Iraq in March.

如果我真的重新入伍，我必须在三月份回到伊拉克。

I'm going to wait a couple days.

我要等几天。

I've been doing a lot of praying about it, talking to family, and just waiting for the path to become clear.

我为此做了很多祈祷，与家人交谈，等待道路变得清晰。

Before Patrick's possible next deployment in March, President-elect Obama will face his first major test with IAVA and other veterans organizations.

在帕特里克可能于三月份进行下一次部署之前，当选总统奥巴马将面临他与 IAVA 和其他退伍军人组织的第一次重大考验。

He will submit a budget.

他将提交一份预算。

Tom Tarantino is a policy associate at IAVA and a former army captain who served for 10 years, and got through college on an ROTC scholarship.

汤姆·塔伦蒂诺 (Tom Tarantino) 是 IAVA 的政策助理，曾任陆军上尉，服役 10 年，并通过后备军官训练队 (ROTC) 奖学金完成了大学学业。

Tom gets his health care through the Veterans Administration, like a lot of his friends.

和他的许多朋友一样，汤姆通过退伍军人管理局获得医疗保健。

I have several friends who have traumatic brain injuries.

我有几个朋友患有脑外伤。

And the VA is going to be dealing with a very large population of men and women who were injured very early on in their life, and are going to need not just adequate care, but they're going to need to have excellent care for maybe the next 50 or 60 years.

退伍军人事务部将处理大量在生命早期受伤的男性和女性，他们不仅需要足够的护理，而且可能在未来 50 或 60 年里需要得到良好的护理。

Tom wants to see Obama continue full funding for the VA.

汤姆希望看到奥巴马继续为退伍军人管理局提供全额资助。

It's been fully funded for the last two years, but those are the only two years the VA has been fully funded in its entire history.

过去两年一直得到全额资助，但这是 VA 整个历史上唯一获得全额资助的两年。

But besides what the Obama administration does, Tom will be paying close attention to how they work with veterans organizations.

但除了奥巴马政府所做的事情之外，汤姆还将密切关注他们如何与退伍军人组织合作。

He said he's already seeing changes from the way things worked with the Bush administration.

他说，他已经看到布什政府的工作方式发生了变化。

For the last four years, it's been a fight to get anything on their agenda, on the table, get them to support anything.

在过去的四年里，他们一直在努力将任何事情提上议程、摆在桌面上，让他们支持任何事情。

I can't think of one VSO-- or, I'm sorry Veteran Service Organization-- that regularly worked with the White House on any issues.

我想不出有哪个 VSO（或者，对不起，退伍军人服务组织）能够在任何问题上定期与白宫合作。

Really?

真的吗？

Tom Tarantino Yeah.

汤姆·塔伦蒂诺 是的。

I know that the White House had called the VFW a couple times, because they were opposed to the GI bill, and tried to get the VFW to back their position.

我知道白宫曾几次致电 VFW，因为他们反对《退伍军人权利法案》，并试图让 VFW 支持他们的立场。

But no. I think that's one of the things that we're all-- and I think, and I would say it's a pretty safe assumption that the veteran community, the VSO community, as a whole-- we're not going to fight with the administration for the next four years.

但没有。我认为这是我们所有人的事情之一 - 我认为，我想说这是一个非常安全的假设，即退伍军人社区、VSO 社区作为一个整体 - 我们不会在未来四年内与政府对抗。

Right away, the transition team reached out to the Veteran Service Organizations, and asked, hey, who are the 35 people you guys would like to see appointed to the VA?

过渡团队立即联系了退伍军人服务组织，并询问，嘿，你们希望看到谁被任命为 VA 的 35 人？

Which, of course, we almost did a collective spit-take when we got that phone call.

当然，当我们接到那个电话时，我们差点集体吐口水。

Like, really?

真的吗？

God.

上帝。

Which is a complete 180 from the way things have been working.

这与事情的运作方式发生了 180 度的转变。

This administration is looking very engaged.

本届政府看起来非常投入。

They're hungry.

他们饿了。

They're hungry to do things, and actually get down to work, which actually far exceeded, I think, at least my expectations.

他们渴望做事，并且真正开始工作，我认为这实际上远远超出了我的预期。

No one is going to use cautious optimism as their campaign slogan.

没有人会使用谨慎乐观作为他们的竞选口号。

It lacks the inspirational grandeur of hope.

它缺乏鼓舞人心的宏伟希望。

It's not a crowd pleaser.

这不是取悦人群的事情。

But when the crowd goes home, and everyone's back to their day-to-day work and worries, cautious optimism is where people settle down and wait to see what happens.

但当人群回家，每个人都回到日常工作和忧虑中时，人们就会保持谨慎乐观的态度，静下心来静观事态的发展。

Act Two, Playground Politics.

第二幕，游乐场政治。

About a week after the election, the kids who show up after school for homework help and writing projects at the literacy group, 826 Valencia in San Francisco, were so hyped up, still, about the elections, that one of the adults who works there suggested that maybe they should all write letters to the new president, with their questions and their advice and their thoughts, and they would publish it in a little homemade book.

选举后大约一周，放学后出现在旧金山 826 Valencia 扫盲小组寻求家庭作业帮助和写作项目的孩子们，仍然对选举大肆宣传，以至于在那里工作的一位成年人建议，也许他们都应该给新总统写信，提出他们的问题、建议和想法，并将其发表在一本自制的小书中。

Well, this idea took off.

好吧，这个想法起飞了。

And sister groups in six other cities did the same, resulting in a brand new book called Thanks and Have Fun Running the Country.

其他六个城市的姐妹团体也做了同样的事情，出版了一本全新的书，名为“感谢并享受管理国家的乐趣”。

We asked some of the kids to read their letters now.

我们现在请一些孩子读一下他们的信。

Dear Barack Obama, one thing you could fix is the economy.

亲爱的巴拉克·奥巴马（Barack Obama），你可以解决的一件事就是经济。

Something happened to me.

我发生了一些事情。

I went out to lunch at Starbucks and I wanted to buy a cup of whipped cream.

我去星巴克吃午饭，想买一杯鲜奶油。

And normally, it's $0.43, but now, it's $0.74.

通常是 0.43 美元，但现在是 0.74 美元。

The price raised $0.31 for no reason.

价格无故上涨 0.31 美元。

So you should probably try to change things like that from happening.

所以你应该尝试改变类似的事情发生。

You should keep an eye out for things like that.

你应该留意类似的事情。

I wish you good luck.

祝你好运。

PS, I love whipped cream.

PS，我喜欢鲜奶油。

Love, Alexis Feliciano, age nine, Brooklyn.

爱，亚历克西斯·费里西亚诺，九岁，布鲁克林。

My name's Chatham Singh.

我叫查塔姆·辛格。

I'm nine years old.

我九岁了。

I live in Los Angeles.

我住在洛杉矶。

I want to say to President Obama that could you help my family to get house-cleaning jobs?

我想对奥巴马总统说，你能帮助我的家人找到打扫房间的工作吗？

If I were president, I would help all nations, even Hawaii.

如果我是总统，我会帮助所有国家，甚至包括夏威夷。

President Obama, I think you could help the world.

奥巴马总统，我认为你可以帮助世界。

Hi.

你好。

My name is Bushra Habbas-Nimer.

我的名字是布什拉·哈巴斯-尼默。

And I'm eight years old.

我今年八岁了。

And I live in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

我住在密歇根州安娜堡。

Dear Obama, you are going to be a great president.

亲爱的奥巴马，您将成为一位伟大的总统。

My whole religion voted for you.

我的整个宗教都投票给你了。

I wanted to tell you that I am Arabic, and I heard that you were halfway Arabic.

我想告诉你我是阿拉伯人，我听说你有一半阿拉伯血统。

I think that you deserve to be the president because you are going to do smart and good stuff.

我认为你应该成为总统，因为你会做聪明而好的事情。

From Bushra.

来自布什拉。

Dear President Obama, here is a list of the first 10 things you should do as president.

亲爱的奥巴马总统，这里列出了您作为总统应该做的前 10 件事。

One, fly to the White House in a helicopter.

第一，乘坐直升机飞往白宫。

Two, walk in.

二、走进去。

Three, wipe feet.

三、擦脚。

Four, walk to the Oval Office.

四、步行到椭圆形办公室。

Five, sit down in a chair.

五、坐在椅子上。

Six, put hand-sanitizer on hands.

六、将洗手液涂在手上。

Seven, enjoy moment.

七、享受当下。

Eight, get up.

八、起床。

Nine, get in car.

九、上车。

10, go to the dog pound.

10、去狗收容所。

Please enjoy your experience as president.

请享受作为总统的经历。

Sincerely, Chandler Brown, age 12, Chicago.

此致，钱德勒·布朗，12 岁，芝加哥。

Thanks to the 826 literacy groups in Brooklyn, Los Angeles, Chicago, Ann Arbor, San Francisco, and Seattle.

感谢布鲁克林、洛杉矶、芝加哥、安娜堡、旧金山和西雅图的 826 个扫盲小组。

The book, again, is Thanks and Have Fun Running the Country .

这本书再次是《感谢并享受管理国家的乐趣》。

You can find it at the website of McSweeney's Magazine , mcsweeneys.net.

您可以在 McSweeney's Magazine 网站 mcsweeneys.net 上找到它。

We have more of the kids reading their letters at our website, thisamericanlife.org.

更多的孩子在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上阅读他们的信件。

Act Three, Lions and Lambs.

第三幕，狮子与羔羊。

When Barack Obama chose Rick Warren of Saddleback Church to give a prayer at his inauguration, gay and lesbian groups, of course, cried foul because of Warren's past remarks about homosexuality and gay marriage.

当巴拉克·奥巴马选择马鞍峰教堂的里克·沃伦在他的就职典礼上进行祈祷时，同性恋团体当然会因为沃伦过去关于同性恋和同性婚姻的言论而大声疾呼。

But Rick Warren's constituents also got angry.

但里克·沃伦的选民也感到愤怒。

Pro-life groups, like Human Life International and Operation Rescue, condemned the move.

人类生命国际组织和救援行动等反堕胎组织谴责了这一举动。

When David Brody of the Christian Broadcasting Network asked for comments, he was flooded with angry emails about Warren from Christian conservatives.

当基督教广播网的大卫·布罗迪寻求评论时，他收到了大量来自基督教保守派的针对沃伦的愤怒电子邮件。

Here's a call to conservative talk show host Mike Gallagher.

这是给保守派脱口秀主持人迈克·加拉格尔的电话。

George, you're on the Mike Gallagher Show .

乔治，你在迈克·加拉格尔秀上。

Hi.

你好。

Thanks for having me on.

谢谢你邀请我参加。

Mike Gallagher You bet.

迈克·加拉格尔 你敢打赌。

Number one, I don't expect much out of Obama.

第一，我对奥巴马的期望并不高。

I mean, the guy's calculating.

我的意思是，这家伙在算计。

But I've got to tell you something.

但我必须告诉你一件事。

And I'm going to use a harsh word against Pastor Warren.

我要对华理克牧师说一句严厉的话。

I'm going to call him a hypocrite.

我要称他为伪君子。

Because I'm a conservative Christian, and for a man who stands upon a pulpit in front of many people, and sells all these books based on his core values, I just believe he's compromising them for the wrong reasons.

因为我是一个保守的基督徒，对于一个站在很多人面前的讲坛上并根据他的核心价值观出售所有这些书籍的人来说，我只是相信他出于错误的原因而妥协了这些书。

Yep.

是的。

I'm with you.

我和你在一起。

I mean, personally, I wouldn't compromise in any way on the issue of life.

我的意思是，就我个人而言，我不会在生命问题上以任何方式妥协。

I wouldn't give a speech at Planned Parenthood.

我不会在计划生育协会发表演讲。

Back in August, Barack Obama chose as a different pastor, Dr. Joel Hunter, to give the benediction at the Democratic National Convention, and it caused a similar storm among evangelicals.

早在八月份，巴拉克·奥巴马就选择了另一位牧师乔尔·亨特博士在民主党全国代表大会上进行祝福，这在福音派中引起了类似的风暴。

Hunter is the Senior Pastor at the 12,000-member Northland Church in Florida.

亨特是佛罗里达州北国教会 (Northland Church) 的主任牧师，该教会拥有 12,000 名成员。

He's author of the book A New Kind of Conservative .

他是《一种新的保守派》一书的作者。

And just to get this out of the way, on the hot-button issues, he is pro-life, and against gay marriage.

为了解决这个问题，在热点问题上，他支持堕胎，反对同性婚姻。

And he said, watching the reaction to Rick Warren the last few weeks, he's definitely had a sense of deja vu.

他说，看看过去几周人们对里克·沃伦的反应，他确实有一种似曾相识的感觉。

Well, they were calling me a traitor.

好吧，他们称我为叛徒。

They were saying, that you are being duped, you are being used.

他们说，你被欺骗了，你被利用了。

Somehow, you are so naive, you're giving strength to those who want to end babies' lives.

不知何故，你太天真了，你为那些想要结束婴儿生命的人提供了力量。

And this is the most radically-left presidential candidate we've ever had, and so on and so forth.

这是我们有史以来最激进的左翼总统候选人，等等。

And so did you end up losing parishioners over this?

那么你最终会因此而失去教区居民吗？

Absolutely.

绝对地。

But we also ended up gaining parishioners.

但我们最终也赢得了教区居民。

And did you find yourself engaged in pretty heated conversations with people you're very close to?

您是否发现自己与非常亲近的人进行了非常激烈的对话？

Absolutely, absolutely.

绝对，绝对。

And that's the toughest part of it.

这就是其中最困难的部分。

Because people that I've known for years, literally just got up and walked out of the church.

因为我认识多年的人实际上只是站起来走出了教堂。

I have friends that I was shocked when they left.

我有一些朋友，当他们离开时，我感到很震惊。

They listened to all of this stuff about Obama.

他们听了所有关于奥巴马的事情。

And so I think many people are still frightened or very skeptical about President-elect Obama.

因此，我认为许多人仍然对当选总统奥巴马感到害怕或非常怀疑。

But it was more, you're getting out of the category here.

但更重要的是，你已经脱离了这里的类别。

Christians are Republicans.

基督徒是共和党人。

And you're weakening our chances of winning an election.

你正在削弱我们赢得选举的机会。

What about this idea?

这个想法怎么样？

It seems like their premise is that it's damaging for you to even talk to anybody on the other side.

他们的前提似乎是，与对方的任何人交谈都会对你造成损害。

What do you think of that?

你对此有何看法？

Well, I think that it's very harmful to our country.

嗯，我认为这对我们的国家非常有害。

It's very harmful to the faith that we say we believe in.

这对我们所说的信仰是非常有害的。

Because that kind of very narrow, very negative, very combative approach, first of all, does not give a good image to the one we represent.

因为这种非常狭隘、非常消极、非常好斗的做法，首先不能给我们所代表的人一个好的形象。

That was not Jesus-style.

那不是耶稣的风格。

Secondly, if you're ever to make progress as a country, or even as a faith, the very ones you want to talk to are the ones who don't agree with you.

其次，如果你想作为一个国家，甚至作为一种信仰取得进步，那么你想与那些不同意你观点的人交谈。

Well, it seems like a lot of the difference in the way people see this depends on whether or not they see President-elect Obama reaching out as a cynical act or as a sincere act.

嗯，人们对此的看法很大程度上取决于他们是否认为当选总统奥巴马的举动是愤世嫉俗的行为还是真诚的行为。

And I take it that you obviously see it as a sincere act, of reaching out.

我认为你显然认为这是一种真诚的伸出援手的行为。

I do.

我愿意。

Just from my time with him, this is who he is.

从我和他在一起的时间来看，他就是这样的人。

I'm sure there's a political awareness, because he's very politically savvy.

我确信他有政治意识，因为他非常有政治头脑。

But I think this is how he sees the world.

但我认为这就是他看待世界的方式。

And this is how some of the rest of us see the world also.

这也是我们其他人看待世界的方式。

Yeah, let's talk more about that.

是的，让我们多谈谈这个。

Presumably, where you're heading with this is that there would be areas of common ground.

据推测，您的目的是存在共同点。

Now, I know that one area that Barack Obama has pointed out as an area of possible common ground is he says look, there are two sides here that disagree about abortion rights, but probably agree that it's a good thing to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortions.

现在，我知道巴拉克·奥巴马指出的一个可能存在共同点的领域是，他说，看，这里有两方在堕胎权问题上存在分歧，但可能都同意减少导致堕胎的意外怀孕数量是一件好事。

And so can we work together on that?

那么我们可以在这方面共同努力吗？

Do you think that that's something where evangelicals would be open to working together?

你认为福音派人士愿意在这方面合作吗？

Very much so.

非常如此。

Very much so.

非常如此。

There are a number of solutions to this, all the way from sex education-- including abstinence-- to contraception to supporting adoption.

对此有很多解决方案，从性教育（包括禁欲）到避孕，再到支持收养。

So absolutely.

绝对如此。

Let's work the full spectrum.

让我们全面开展工作。

Now, when you talk to friends, and read around what other people are saying, what's your sense of things?

现在，当您与朋友交谈并阅读其他人的言论时，您对事情有何看法？

President-elect Obama reached out to you, and is reaching out to Rick Warren, as a way to reach out to evangelicals partly, and say, come on, let's have this conversation, let's see what we can work together on.

当选总统奥巴马向你们伸出了援手，并且正在向里克·沃伦伸出援手，作为部分接触福音派人士的一种方式，并说，来吧，让我们进行这次对话，让我们看看我们可以共同努力做什么。

Is that working?

这有效吗？

To what degree is he winning some people over?

他在多大程度上赢得了一些人的支持？

It is working.

它正在发挥作用。

It is working slowly.

它正在缓慢地工作。

This is going to be a long-term thing.

这将是一个长期的事情。

You've got to realize that there are organizations that profit from polarization.

你必须意识到有些组织从两极分化中获利。

That's where they get their audience.

这就是他们吸引观众的地方。

That's where they get their money.

这就是他们赚钱的地方。

That's where they get their popularity.

这就是他们受欢迎的地方。

And they're not just religious organizations.

他们不仅仅是宗教组织。

You can take talk radio or television shows that are made to incite battle, combat.

您可以观看旨在煽动战斗的谈话广播或电视节目。

But in a way, this gets to the heart of what Barack Obama was campaigning on.

但在某种程度上，这触及了巴拉克·奥巴马(Barack Obama)竞选活动的核心内容。

He was saying, well, let's do a new kind of politics.

他说，好吧，让我们进行一种新的政治。

And in a way, you're saying the same kind of thing.

在某种程度上，你说的是同样的事情。

Exactly.

确切地。

Exactly.

确切地。

Ira Glass Can I ask you, Barack Obama announced this week that he's also, in addition to Rick Warren, he's chosen an openly-gay Episcopal bishop to also give a prayer at the inauguration.

艾拉·格拉斯 我可以问你吗，巴拉克·奥巴马本周宣布，除了里克·沃伦之外，他还选择了一位公开同性恋身份的圣公会主教在就职典礼上进行祈祷。

What's your take on that?

你对此有何看法？

This isn't a religious service.

这不是宗教仪式。

And so I would be surprised if he didn't include a very broad spectrum of religious leaders.

因此，如果他没有包括非常广泛的宗教领袖，我会感到惊讶。

And it sounds like you see that as a positive thing too.

听起来你也认为这是一件积极的事情。

Well, yeah.

嗯，是的。

It's in the nature of the occasion itself.

这是场合本身的性质。

This is about our country.

这是关于我们国家的。

This isn't about who's right theologically.

这与谁在神学上是正确的无关。

This is about our country and including all the citizens of our country.

这是关于我们的国家，包括我们国家的所有公民。

So the picture I get from you is that I sort of picture you, and a couple people, and right now, Rick Warren, are all in the same position, dragging evangelical friends and neighbors towards the middle, and President-elect Obama dragging non-evangelicals towards the middle, all of them very reluctant, on both sides.

所以我从你那里得到的画面是，我想象你和几个人，现在，里克·沃伦，都处于同样的位置，将福音派朋友和邻居拖向中间，当选总统奥巴马将非福音派拖向中间，双方都非常不情愿。

Well, let me phrase it a little bit differently.

好吧，让我用不同的方式表达一下。

I'm going to give you a different picture.

我会给你一张不同的图片。

There's an old saying that you could always tell the scout on a wagon train because he was the one with all the arrows in him.

有句老话说，你总能认出马车上的侦察兵，因为他身上全是箭。

And I hope I'm not going out of bounds there, being politically incorrect.

我希望我不会越界，政治不正确。

But anytime you try to go to new ground, anytime you try to go to territory that you've not been in before, you're going to have resistance.

但每当你尝试进入新领域，每当你尝试进入以前从未涉足过的领域，你都会遇到阻力。

But there's a whole line of people behind you that are kind of hoping you make it.

但在你身后有一整队人都希望你能成功。

And I think that's what we're seeing right now.

我认为这就是我们现在所看到的。

There are people who are just waiting to get permission to think that way, to get permission to love that way, to get permission to walk out their faith that way.

有些人只是在等待获得许可以这种方式思考，获得许可以这种方式去爱，获得许可以这种方式践行他们的信仰。

And I think that's what our hope is, this growing constituency of people who want to be cooperative.

我认为这就是我们的希望，越来越多的人愿意合作。

Dr. Joel Hunter.

乔尔·亨特博士。

His book, again, is A New Kind of Conservative.

他的书又是《一种新的保守派》。

Act Four, Punching the Clock in the Enthusiasm Factory.

第四幕，在热情工厂打卡。

Well, over two years ago, long before the country chose Barack Obama, a company called Tigereye Design in Greenville, Ohio chose the man.

两年多前，早在这个国家选择巴拉克·奥巴马之前，俄亥俄州格林维尔一家名为 Tigereye Design 的公司就选择了这个人。

The owners liked Obama as a candidate.

业主们喜欢奥巴马作为候选人。

And they approached him, and they asked if they could make buttons and posters and yard signs-- all that kind of stuff-- for the campaign, and for the campaign's online store, which opened for business the day Obama announced his candidacy.

他们找到他，询问是否可以为竞选活动以及竞选活动的在线商店制作按钮、海报和院子标志——所有这些东西——该商店在奥巴马宣布参选的当天就开始营业了。

Well, that turned out to be a very smart business move.

事实证明，这是一个非常明智的商业举措。

If Barack Obama could do for the economy what he did for Tigereye, we would all be very, very lucky in these coming years.

如果巴拉克·奥巴马 (Barack Obama) 能为经济做出像他为虎眼所做的那样，那么我们在未来几年都会非常非常幸运。

The company has been around for decades making promotional materials, mostly for Democratic candidates and for unions.

该公司几十年来一直在制作宣传材料，主要是为民主党候选人和工会制作宣传材料。

But this turned out to be way bigger than anything they had ever gotten involved in.

但事实证明，这比他们参与过的任何事情都要大得多。

With the inauguration a week away, they are still cranking out merch.

距离就职典礼还有一周时间，他们仍在生产商品。

Lisa Pollak dropped by to watch them do it.

丽莎·波拉克 (Lisa Pollak) 顺便过来观看他们这样做。

This is the sound of hope.

这是希望的声音。

Or at least, the sound of hope being printed out on paper, cut into little circles, and stamped onto metal disks with pins on the back.

或者至少，希望的声音被打印在纸上，切成小圆圈，然后印在背面带有别针的金属盘上。

These buttons that you're making looks like a presidential seal?

你做的这些纽扣看起来像总统印章吗？

Yeah.

是的。

These are some of our new ones.

这些是我们的一些新产品。

And it says, I was there, 56th Presidential Inauguration, January 20.

上面写着，1 月 20 日，我参加了第 56 届总统就职典礼。

These are all going to Washington.

这些都要去华盛顿。

This is Lisa Bergman.

这是丽莎·伯格曼。

She's one of about a half dozen women cranking out buttons this afternoon.

她是今天下午大约六名正在制作纽扣的女性之一。

They're in a room that looks more like a crowded basement workshop than a high-volume assembly line for presidential swag.

他们所在的房间看起来更像是拥挤的地下室车间，而不是总统赃物的大批量装配线。

The process of making the buttons is surprisingly low-tech.

制作按钮的过程技术含量低得惊人。

The workers load the button parts into the machine-- printed fronts, metal backs, clear, plastic coating-- and then they hit a foot pedal.

工人们将按钮部件装入机器中——印刷的正面、金属背面、透明的塑料涂层——然后踩下脚踏板。

The machine stamps the parts together, and flips the finished buttons into a box.

机器将零件冲压在一起，然后将成品纽扣翻转到盒子中。

It all happens fast, hundreds of times an hour.

这一切都发生得很快，每小时数百次。

The only thing that changes from day to day is the button's message.

每天唯一改变的是按钮的消息。

And lately, even that only changes so much.

最近，即便如此，也只是发生了很大的变化。

Truckers for Obama, Mohawks for Obama, cat lovers for Obama, bird watchers--

奥巴马的卡车司机、奥巴马的莫霍克发型、奥巴马的猫爱好者、鸟类观察者——

In the last two years, Lisa and her co-workers have made more than 10 million Obama buttons.

过去两年，丽莎和她的同事制作了超过 1000 万颗奥巴马纽扣。

They've supplied the campaign's online store and they company's own website.

他们提供了该活动的在线商店和他们公司自己的网站。

--surfers for Obama, oil tycoons for Obama.

——奥巴马的冲浪者，奥巴马的石油大亨。

Oil tycoons?

石油大亨？

Not many, no. We really didn't.

不多，没有。我们真的没有。

Motorcycles for Obama, scooters--

奥巴马的摩托车、踏板车——

When I ask people here to share their views on Barack Obama, the candidate, I heard everything from passionate support to complete indifference.

当我请这里的人们分享他们对候选人巴拉克·奥巴马(Barack Obama)的看法时，我听到了从热情支持到完全漠不关心的各种声音。

Several people told me they supported Obama, and that that was a plus on the job.

有几个人告诉我他们支持奥巴马，这对这份工作来说是一个加分项。

But they also said they'd have no problem making buttons for McCain.

但他们也表示，为麦凯恩制作纽扣没有问题。

--snake lovers for Obama, totally sweet clowns for Obama, there's cheerleaders for Obama, skaters for Obama, muscle--

——奥巴马的蛇爱好者、奥巴马的可爱小丑、奥巴马的拉拉队、奥巴马的溜冰者、肌肉——

Nobody's ever been this excited about a presidential candidate ever.

从来没有人对总统候选人如此兴奋。

I'm in the printing room now with Justin Hemminger, the company's head of online retail and a guy who measures excitement partly through button sales.

我现在和贾斯汀·海明格 (Justin Hemminger) 一起在印刷室，他是公司在线零售业务的负责人，他部分通过纽扣销售来衡量兴奋程度。

We actually used the popularity of Obama merchandise to move a lot of the other stuff that we had from previous presidential elections that was in our warehouse.

实际上，我们利用奥巴马商品的受欢迎程度，转移了我们仓库里以前总统选举时拥有的许多其他物品。

We had thousands of buttons from John Kerry, Al Gore, Clinton '96.

我们有数千枚来自 John Kerry、Al Gore、Clinton '96 的纽扣。

We put one Obama button in a bag of 50 buttons with all the others on there, and people would buy them.

我们将一颗奥巴马纽扣与所有其他纽扣放在一袋 50 颗纽扣中，人们就会购买它们。

We didn't actually start doing that until after the election.

直到选举后我们才真正开始这样做。

Because we didn't think anybody was going to be buying any of that stuff.

因为我们认为没有人会购买这些东西。

Any of that stuff meaning the Kerry and Gore and--

任何那些意味着克里和戈尔的东西以及——

Anything, actually, at all, after the election.

实际上，在选举之后，任何事情都可以。

We were pretty much sure that the bottom was going to drop out on November 5.

我们非常确定 11 月 5 日就会触底。

And as it turns out, that was, like, the biggest day we had all year.

事实证明，那是我们一年中最重要的一天。

Barack Obama's popularity translated into sales in all sorts of ways that caught Tigereye by surprise.

巴拉克·奥巴马 (Barack Obama) 的受欢迎程度以各种方式转化为销量，这让 Tigereye 感到惊讶。

When the campaign started, the company had 30 employees.

活动开始时，该公司有 30 名员工。

But last fall, at the peak of business, it hired close to 500, many of them temps.

但去年秋天，在业务高峰期，该公司雇佣了近 500 名员工，其中许多是临时工。

And they were running three shifts a day.

他们每天轮班三班。

They moved to a bigger building, built a few additions, and had to get a second warehouse for packing and shipping.

他们搬到了一座更大的建筑，建造了一些附加设施，并且必须获得第二个仓库用于包装和运输。

But after the post-election boom, orders slowed down.

但在大选后的繁荣之后，订单放缓。

The new hires were mostly let go.

新员工大多被解雇。

They're down to a staff of 50 now.

他们现在的员工人数已减少到 50 人。

And even with the inauguration a week away, the office is a lot quieter than it used to be.

尽管距离就职典礼还有一周时间，办公室里却比以前安静了很多。

And with the economy the way is, it could be scary to know that your livelihood is, in some ways, tied to a nation's faith in a candidate.

从经济形势来看，你的生计在某种程度上与一个国家对候选人的信心息息相关，这可能会让人感到害怕。

I'm kind of scared of the day that I'd come and might not see his face being printed on a shirt.

我有点害怕有一天我来了，可能看不到他的脸印在衬衫上。

I mean, that might be selfish, but it is job security.

我的意思是，这可能很自私，但这是工作保障。

And I know there's a lot of people out there who don't have a job right now.

我知道现在有很多人没有工作。

This is Sandy Dehart.

这是桑迪·德哈特。

She's worked at the company five years.

她在这家公司工作了五年。

Do you wear the stuff?

你穿那东西吗？

Sandy Dehart No. I work here.

桑迪·德哈特 不，我在这里工作。

What does that mean?

这意味着什么？

Sandy Dehart That means my paycheck pays my bills.

桑迪·德哈特 这意味着我的薪水可以支付我的账单。

I can't buy Barack Obama shirts.

我买不到巴拉克·奥巴马的衬衫。

We're not banking on this being an income source for too much longer.

我们不会再指望它作为收入来源太久了。

Again, Justin Hemminger.

再次，贾斯汀·海明格。

Justin Hemminger You have to expect at some point the honeymoon's going to be over.

贾斯汀·海明格：你必须预料到蜜月会在某个时刻结束。

There's definitely that element like, you got elected.

肯定有这样的因素，比如你当选了。

You told me a lot of things that you were going to do.

你告诉了我很多你要做的事情。

And now it's time to work.

现在是工作时间了。

Yeah, exactly.

是的，完全正确。

It's like buying a t-shirt for a band.

这就像为乐队购买一件 T 恤一样。

You buy the t-shirt of the tour that they're on.

你买了他们参加的巡演的 T 恤。

And it's the one that you want to see, because you're excited to see them.

这就是你想看到的，因为你很高兴见到他们。

You don't buy the t-shirt of them making the record.

你不会买他们制作唱片的 T 恤。

Justin says the company's in a transition, trying to branch out beyond political work, and expand their pool of clients.

贾斯汀表示，该公司正处于转型期，试图将业务扩展到政治工作之外，并扩大客户群。

They've ridden the wave of hope, just like Barack Obama.

他们就像巴拉克·奥巴马一样，驾驭着希望的浪潮。

And now, just like Obama, they have to figure out what to do next.

现在，就像奥巴马一样，他们必须弄清楚下一步该做什么。

Lisa Pollak is one of the producers of our show.

丽莎·波拉克是我们节目的制片人之一。

She has sworn holy vengeance on all computers, and hers, in particular.

她发誓要对所有计算机，尤其是她的计算机进行神圣的复仇。

Tigereye's website is democraticstuff.com.

Tigereye 的网站是democracystuff.com。

Coming up, a man who's been working on the Obama campaign the last, oh, 76 years.

接下来是一位在过去 76 年里一直为奥巴马竞选工作的人。

That is in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.

距离芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台一分钟后，我们的节目仍在继续。

Well, it's This American Life .

嗯，这就是《美国生活》。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

And today on our program, with just a few days before the inauguration of Barack Obama as president, we wanted to get a sense of how people are feeling around the country, about Obama and his coming presidency.

今天，在我们的节目中，距离巴拉克·奥巴马 (Barack Obama) 就任总统仅几天，我们希望了解全国各地的人们对奥巴马及其即将任总统的感受。

And we have arrived at Act Five of our show.

我们已经到了节目的第五幕了。

Act Five, On the Court with the Clock Running Down.

第五幕，在时间紧迫的法庭上。

Well, Barack Obama's transition team made it clear this week that the incoming president plans to order the closing of Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp on his first full day in office.

巴拉克·奥巴马的过渡团队本周明确表示，即将上任的总统计划在他上任的第一天下令关闭关塔那摩湾拘留营。

It's also likely, they say, that he will immediately suspend the military commissions held there.

他们说，他也有可能立即暂停在那里举行的军事委员会。

These are the special courts that the military has set up in Guantanamo that have been widely criticized as being unfair to the detainees.

这些是军方在关塔那摩设立的特别法庭，被广泛批评为对被拘留者不公平。

Sarah Koenig talked to one of the lawyers currently defending a Guantanamo detainee about all this, what's going on in Guantanamo, and what should happen next.

莎拉·科尼格与目前为一名关塔那摩被拘留者辩护的律师之一谈论了这一切、关塔那摩正在发生的事情以及接下来应该发生的事情。

One of the first things that Bill Keebler learned when he was sent to Guantanamo as a military lawyer was that whatever he was doing there, it couldn't accurately be called practicing law.

当比尔·基伯勒被派往关塔那摩担任军事律师时，他首先了解到的一件事是，无论他在那里做什么，都不能准确地称为执业律师。

Because as a lawyer, you're used to practicing law.

因为作为一名律师，你习惯于从事法律工作。

I mean, when you make an argument, or you make a motion, you think that you're going to get a fair hearing from a judge, that the judge is going to rule based on the law and the facts.

我的意思是，当你提出论点或提出动议时，你认为你会得到法官的公平听证，法官会根据法律和事实做出裁决。

And when you realize that you are perceived as-- and the right word is, a prop in a show, or a theater performance it is frustrating.

当你意识到你被视为——正确的词是，演出或戏剧表演中的道具时，你会感到沮丧。

Keebler doesn't relish saying things like this.

基伯勒不喜欢说这样的话。

He's a military man, a Navy officer, Lieutenant Commander William Keebler, not one of those lefty ACLU lawyers who's gone down to Cuba pro bono.

他是一名军人，一名海军军官，威廉·基伯勒中尉，而不是那些无偿前往古巴的左翼美国公民自由联盟律师。

Keebler describes himself as a conservative.

基伯勒将自己描述为保守派。

He voted for President Bush twice.

他两次投票给布什总统。

And when he volunteered to work as a defense attorney in the military commissions, he thought they were legitimate.

当他自愿在军事委员会担任辩护律师时，他认为这是合法的。

But on his very first visit to Guantanamo, he began to realize how hopelessly stacked the system was against the detainees.

但在他第一次访问关塔那摩时，他开始意识到这个制度对被拘留者来说是多么绝望。

His first client was a Saudi guy named Ghassan Abdullah al-Sharbi.

他的第一个客户是一位名叫加桑·阿卜杜拉·沙尔比（Ghassan Abdullah al-Sharbi）的沙特人。

al-Sharbi didn't want to be represented by Keebler, or any other lawyer, as a protest against the proceedings.

阿尔沙比不想由基伯勒或任何其他律师代表，以抗议诉讼程序。

He wanted to represent himself.

他想代表自己。

In a regular courtroom, he'd have the right to do that.

在普通法庭上，他有权这样做。

And it was Keebler's ethical duty as a lawyer to help al-Sharbi get that from the judge.

帮助阿尔沙比从法官那里得到这一点是基伯勒作为律师的道德义务。

In a regular court, or a real court, when a detainee represents himself, the judge has to go through what's called a Faretta inquiry.

在普通法庭或真正的法庭中，当被拘留者为自己辩护时，法官必须进行所谓的法雷塔调查。

He basically asks the accused, or the defendant, a series of questions that are designed to ensure that he understands that he is giving up his right to counsel knowingly and voluntarily, and he understands what he's doing.

他基本上向被告或被告提出一系列问题，旨在确保他明白自己是在知情且自愿的情况下放弃了获得律师帮助的权利，并且他明白自己在做什么。

And he answered all the questions perfectly.

他完美地回答了所有问题。

He was a fluent English speaker, very well educated, smart guy, and said all the right things.

他英语说得一口流利，受过良好教育，很聪明，说的都是正确的话。

And the judge basically excused us, and said, go back and talk to Commander Keebler-- or then, Lieutenant Keebler.

法官基本上原谅了我们，并说，回去跟基伯勒指挥官谈谈——或者然后，跟基伯勒中尉谈谈。

Make sure you know what you're doing, and come back in here.

确保你知道自己在做什么，然后回到这里。

And we'll finish.

我们会完成的。

And we did that.

我们做到了。

We went back in, and the judge basically said, well, you know, I find this, I find that.

我们回去后，法官基本上说，嗯，你知道，我发现了这个，我发现了那个。

Ah, but I find that the rules don't let you represent yourself.

啊，但是我发现规则不允许你代表自己。

So your request is denied.

所以你的请求被拒绝了。

In other words, in the military commissions, unlike in real courts, there was a rule saying defendants could never represent themselves.

换句话说，在军事委员会中，与真正的法庭不同，有一条规则规定被告永远不能代表自己。

You know, the judge went through this pretend Faretta inquiry, this complete hoax that was designed to make the thing look legitimate.

你知道，法官经历了这个假装的法雷塔调查，这个完全是骗局，旨在让事情看起来合法。

It was a sham.

这是一场骗局。

It was a show.

这是一场表演。

And when realize that--

当意识到——

But who was the show for?

但这个节目是给谁看的呢？

Were there people in the courtroom observing who wouldn't have known the difference?

法庭上是否有人在观察但不知道其中的区别？

I mean, was there press there?

我的意思是，那里有媒体吗？

Yeah.

是的。

The media was there.

媒体在那里。

And the press was there.

媒体也在那里。

Sure, and they're reporting on this stuff.

当然，他们正在报道这件事。

And from the perspective of the outside observer, it looks like something is happening that's not really happening.

从外部观察者的角度来看，似乎有些事情正在发生，但实际上并没有发生。

And that's--

那就是——

And so were you sitting there thinking, what is the judge doing?

那么你坐在那里思考，法官在做什么？

I mean--

我的意思是——

I thought we were about to win the issue.

我以为我们即将赢得这个问题。

Oh, you believed it too?

呵呵，你也信了？

Bill Keebler Yeah.

比尔·基伯勒 是的。

I mean, I was shocked.

我的意思是，我很震惊。

Oh, I was snowed.

哦，我下雪了。

Oh, really.

哦真的吗。

Bill Keebler And I was.

比尔·基伯勒 我也是。

I mean, I was snowed.

我的意思是，我被雪覆盖了。

And that really was, I think, the moment that just did it for me.

我想，那一刻确实为我做到了这一点。

That whole self-representation issue, or a question of forced representation, was a metaphor for the unfairness and really the hollowness of this process.

整个自我代表问题，或者强迫代表的问题，是这个过程的不公平和空洞的隐喻。

That it so lacked legitimacy, that we had to basically force people to participate in it so that it would appear legitimate to the outside world.

它如此缺乏合法性，以至于我们不得不强迫人们参与其中，这样它在外界看来是合法的。

A year and a half ago, Keebler got his second assignment, to defend Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen.

一年半前，基伯勒接到了第二项任务，为加拿大公民奥马尔·卡德尔辩护。

You might have heard about Khadr's case.

您可能听说过卡德尔的案件。

It's gotten a lot of press.

它受到了很多媒体的关注。

He was accused, among other things, of murdering an American soldier, a medic, by throwing a grenade during a firefight in Afghanistan.

他被指控在阿富汗交火期间投掷手榴弹，杀害了一名美国士兵（一名医务人员）。

He was just 15 years old, and badly wounded, when he was captured.

他被捕时年仅 15 岁，身受重伤。

But unlike other kids at Guantanamo, Khadr was never given special treatment, as required both by international law and Guantanamo's own rules.

但与关塔那摩的其他孩子不同，卡德尔从未按照国际法和关塔那摩自身规则的要求得到特殊待遇。

Instead, Keebler says, he was tortured.

相反，基伯勒说，他受到了酷刑。

He was at Bagram and Guantanamo during what Keebler calls the heyday of detainee abuse in both places.

他在巴格拉姆空军基地和关塔那摩监狱期间，被基伯勒称为这两个地方虐待被拘留者的鼎盛时期。

Keebler thinks the government saw Omar Khadr as a potentially great source of intelligence.

基伯勒认为政府将奥马尔·卡德尔视为潜在的重要情报来源。

Khadr's father was an enthusiastic supporter of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and they all lived in the same compound as the Bin Ladens for a while.

卡德尔的父亲是塔利班和基地组织的热心支持者，他们都曾与本·拉登一家住在同一处院落一段时间。

So Khadr's American captors treated him like an adult, and that was one problem.

因此，卡德尔的美国绑架者把他当作成年人对待，这是一个问题。

The other, says Keebler, is that he believes that almost every aspect of the government's story about Khadr's supposed crimes is not true.

基伯勒说，另一个原因是，他认为政府关于卡德尔所谓罪行的故事几乎所有方面都不真实。

So in a proceeding in December, Keebler wanted to introduce photos, photos that show Khadr buried in rubble from a fallen roof at the same time the government says the grenade was thrown, which he says proves Khadr couldn't have killed that medic.

因此，在 12 月的一次诉讼中，基伯勒想介绍一些照片，这些照片显示卡德尔被埋在倒塌屋顶的瓦砾中，同时政府称手榴弹被投掷，他说这证明卡德尔不可能杀死这名医生。

I wanted to use the photographs legitimately, in connection with an argument, for why we needed a particular witness to be produced in Guantanamo Bay at trial.

我想在辩论中合法地使用这些照片，以解释为什么我们需要在关塔那摩湾审判时出示一名特定的证人。

And I was going to use the photographs with the military judge to illustrate what this witness would say, how the photographs would fit into his testimony.

我打算用军事法官的照片来说明这位证人会说什么，以及这些照片如何融入他的证词。

I got up to make that argument, and the judge said, I don't need to see the photographs.

我站起来提出这个论点，法官说，我不需要看照片。

And then we proceeded to get into this debate, or this colloquy, about my need to use the photographs and his desire not to let me show the photographs, and his making arguments to the effect of, well, we don't know that the photographs are going to come into evidence yet.

然后我们开始进行这场辩论，或者说这次对话，关于我需要使用这些照片，他不想让我展示这些照片，他的论点是，好吧，我们不知道这些照片是否会成为证据。

Well, that's the argument-- that's why you don't show things to a jury.

嗯，这就是论点——这就是为什么你不向陪审团展示东西。

But there's no jury sitting there.

但那里没有陪审团。

The only thing that's there is, there are reporters behind the bar who might see this information, and might realize this kid's been illegitimately held for the last five years.

唯一的是，酒吧后面的记者可能会看到这些信息，并可能意识到这个孩子在过去的五年里一直被非法关押。

And so it's this use of quasi-legal arguments and quasi-legal rationales to basically facilitate a cover-up.

因此，正是利用准法律论据和准法律理由基本上促进了掩盖。

And eventually, at some point, I said, Judge, can I at least look at them on my screen?

最终，在某个时刻，我说，法官，我至少可以在屏幕上看看它们吗？

Because the way the courtroom down there works, you've got screens at the podium, and screens at the individual counsel tables, and for the judge.

因为法庭的运作方式是，讲台上有屏幕，个别律师席上有屏幕，法官也有屏幕。

And then when it's published, it goes up on a big screen that everybody can see.

然后当它发布时，它就会出现在每个人都可以看到的大屏幕上。

And I said, well, can I at least show it on my screen so that I can make my argument and kind of walk through the photos verbally?

我说，好吧，我至少可以在屏幕上显示它，以便我可以提出自己的论点并口头浏览这些照片吗？

And he said, sure, and then realized that the photos had come up on the prosecutor's screens, and that the reporters were peering over the bar to see if they could see the photos, and quickly said, no, no, I'll just give you witness.

他说，当然，然后意识到照片已经出现在检察官的屏幕上，而记者们正从酒吧里往外看，看看他们是否能看到这些照片，然后很快说，不，不，我只是给你作证。

I'll just grant the motion so you don't have to show these photographs.

我会批准该动议，这样你就不必出示这些照片了。

And that prosecutors were literally stumbling all over themselves like Keystone Cops to shut off the monitor so that the press couldn't see.

检察官们真的像基斯通警察一样跌跌撞撞地关闭了监视器，这样媒体就看不到了。

And the court personnel were getting up and fumbling all over themselves to unplug the monitor so the photographs didn't come up.

法庭工作人员站起来，摸索着拔掉显示器的插头，以免照片出现。

I mean if it wasn't so consequential, it would have been farcical.

我的意思是，如果这不是那么重要的话，那将是一场闹剧。

For months, Keebler says, the Bush administration had been pushing these cases forward, hoping to make it impossible for the next administration to stop them.

基伯勒说，几个月来，布什政府一直在推动这些案件的进展，希望下一届政府无法阻止它们。

Khadr's trial is supposed to begin just six days after Obama is sworn in.

卡德尔的审判预计将在奥巴马宣誓就职六天后开始。

And there are pretrial hearings scheduled for the days just before and after Inauguration Day.

就职日前后几天将举行预审听证会。

Keebler flew down to Guantanamo the morning after I spoke to him to begin preparing for his trial, even though he anticipates the new president will pull the plug on the military commissions before it can start.

在我与基伯勒交谈后的第二天早上，他就飞往关塔那摩，开始为他的审判做准备，尽管他预计新总统将在审判开始之前终止军事委员会。

He's betting Barack Obama doesn't want to preside over the world's first war crimes trial of a child soldier.

他打赌巴拉克·奥巴马不想主持世界上第一起针对儿童兵的战争罪审判。

Still, if the Bush administration wants to keep the show going for another few days, Keebler will keep doing his job as a prop.

不过，如果布什政府想让这场演出再持续几天，基伯勒将继续履行他作为道具的工作。

We do have to continue to go through the motions.

我们确实必须继续走走过场。

I mean, it's unfortunate.

我的意思是，这很不幸。

You would hope that the outgoing administration could sort of see the handwriting on the wall and say, there's no reason to spend time and money and move dozens of people to Guantanamo and disrupt lives for the purpose of having a trial that's never going to happen.

你会希望即将离任的政府能够看到不祥之兆，并说，没有理由花费时间和金钱，将数十人转移到关塔那摩并扰乱生活，以进行一场永远不会发生的审判。

But the policymakers on that side of things have not done a very good job over the last eight years.

但过去八年里，这方面的政策制定者并没有做得很好。

So I don't know that they would suddenly start making intelligent decisions in the final week.

所以我不知道他们会在最后一周突然开始做出明智的决定。

Keebler says there a lot more people in uniform than we might think who want Guantanamo and the military commissions to end, who want to get out of the business of holding and prosecuting these people, who want things to go back to normal.

基伯勒说，希望关塔那摩和军事委员会结束的人比我们想象的要多得多，他们希望摆脱关押和起诉这些人的麻烦，他们希望事情恢复正常。

And it's not just defense attorneys.

不仅仅是辩护律师。

A handful of military prosecutors assigned to cases in Guantanamo have resigned in protest.

少数负责关塔那摩案件的军事检察官已辞职以示抗议。

One of them, Morris Davis, was the chief prosecutor there, and has now agreed to help in the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the so-called 9/11 mastermind.

其中一位名叫莫里斯·戴维斯 (Morris Davis) 的人是那里的首席检察官，现在他同意协助调查所谓的 9/11 策划者哈立德·谢赫·穆罕默德 (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed) 的案件。

Morris said he'd testify for the defense.

莫里斯表示他将为辩方作证。

And just this week, Susan Crawford, a retired judge in charge of referring cases for prosecution at Guantanamo, became the first senior Bush administration official to say publicly that detainees were tortured there.

就在本周，负责将案件移交关塔那摩起诉的退休法官苏珊·克劳福德(Susan Crawford)成为首位公开表示被拘留者在关塔那摩遭受酷刑的布什政府高级官员。

It feels like the whole thing's unraveling.

感觉整个事情都瓦解了。

If Keebler could offer President Obama one piece of advice, it would be this.

如果基伯勒可以向奥巴马总统提供一条建议，那就是这个。

Make a clean break as quickly as possible.

尽快彻底决裂。

There's nothing extreme or controversial about saying that we as Americans are going to provide fair trials for people in our custody accused of crimes.

作为美国人，我们将为被我们拘留的被指控犯罪的人提供公平的审判，这并没有什么极端或有争议的说法。

Barack Obama recently floated the idea that it could take a year to close Guantanamo, which annoyed a lot of human rights' advocates, including lawyers with the Center for Constitutional Rights, who wrote a recent report laying out how you could do it in three months.

巴拉克·奥巴马(Barack Obama)最近提出了可能需要一年时间才能关闭关塔那摩的想法，这惹恼了许多人权倡导者，其中包括宪法权利中心的律师，他们最近写了一份报告，阐述了如何在三个月内做到这一点。

And even if the new president does close Guantanamo, we still don't know what he'll do about the CIA black sites, about secret prisons, about the prison at Bagram Air Force Base.

即使新总统确实关闭了关塔那摩，我们仍然不知道他会对中央情报局黑点、秘密监狱、巴格拉姆空军基地监狱采取什么措施。

There's more to Guantanamo than just Guantanamo.

关塔那摩不仅仅是关塔那摩。

Sarah Koenig is one of the producers of our show.

莎拉·科尼格是我们节目的制片人之一。

Seven years after the creation of Guantanamo, there are still 248 prisoners there.

关塔那摩监狱成立七年后，那里仍然关押着 248 名囚犯。

Act Six, Vox Obamali.

第六幕，奥巴马利之声。

Last week at the shoeshine stand outside of Sandy's Bar in New Orleans, some guys were talking about what an Obama presidency is going to be like.

上周，在新奥尔良桑迪酒吧外的擦鞋摊上，一些人正在谈论奥巴马总统任期将会是什么样子。

And they got onto the subject of that dog that he's going to adopt for his daughters.

他们谈到了他要为女儿们收养的那只狗。

(SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: Mister Arthur, what's the dog's name?

（主题）新奥尔良男子：亚瑟先生，那条狗叫什么名字？

I don't know.

我不知道。

New Orleans Man (SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: No, they don't have a dog yet.

新奥尔良男子（主题） 新奥尔良男子：不，他们还没有狗。

The dog hasn't made it to the show yet.

这只狗还没有参加演出。

He got it.

他明白了。

New Orleans Man (SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: But he ought to let the public name the dog.

新奥尔良人（主题） 新奥尔良人：但他应该让公众为这只狗命名。

He ought to let the country name the dog.

他应该让国家给这只狗命名。

Let everybody put it, go online--

大家放上来，上网——

But you know, the dog is not that important.

但你知道，狗并不那么重要。

(SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: Well, it's important for the children.

（主题）新奥尔良男子：嗯，这对孩子们来说很重要。

(SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: Where are we going with this country?

（主题）新奥尔良男子：我们这个国家将走向何方？

Yeah, what's going on with the country?

是啊，国家怎么了？

The most powerful place--

最厉害的地方——

(SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: Is that pothole going to be at--

（主题）新奥尔良男子：那个坑洼是在——

--in the world?

——在世界上？

New Orleans Man (SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: --Ursuline and Robinson for the next 20 years?

新奥尔良人（主题） 新奥尔良人：——乌尔苏拉和罗宾逊未来 20 年？

Is that pothole still going to be at Ursuline and Robinson for the next 20 years, or what?

在接下来的 20 年里，乌尔苏拉和罗宾逊的坑洞还会存在吗？还是什么？

(SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: Well, it trickles down from him.

（主题）新奥尔良男子：嗯，它从他身上流下来。

(SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: All that comes from him, and it trickles down.

（主题）新奥尔良人：这一切都来自他，并且滴下来。

That's from the mayor, up there at City Hall.

这是市政厅市长发来的。

(SUBJECT) NEW ORLEANS MAN: Listen at me.

（主题）新奥尔良人：听我说。

That comes from the president.

这来自总统。

It trickles down to the mayor.

它慢慢地流向了市长。

They give them that money to take care of their cities and their states, right?

他们给他们钱来照顾他们的城市和州，对吗？

It's not clear exactly what people are expecting from an Obama presidency.

目前尚不清楚人们对奥巴马总统任期有何具体期望。

We know from polling data that about 2/3 of all Americans say they think he's going to do a good job.

我们从民意调查数据得知，大约 2/3 的美国人表示他们认为他会做得很好。

2/3 also agree that he's very likely, or at least fairly likely, to bring real change in direction to the country.

2/3 的人还同意他很有可能，或者至少相当有可能，为国家带来真正的方向改变。

77% say they like him.

77% 的人说他们喜欢他。

All those numbers from an NBC News, Wall Street Journal poll, by the way.

顺便说一句，所有这些数字都来自 NBC 新闻、华尔街日报的民意调查。

But to get a better sense of what people are thinking, we asked reporters all over the country to go out with microphones and talk to people.

但为了更好地了解人们的想法，我们要求全国各地的记者带着麦克风出去与人们交谈。

From the dozens of hours they recorded, here's some of the voices.

以下是他们录制的数十个小时的一些声音。

No, I never expected to see a black man be elected president.

不，我从没想过会看到一个黑人当选总统。

I didn't think the country was ready for a black man.

我认为这个国家还没有为黑人做好准备。

I live in Whitesburg, Kentucky.

我住在肯塔基州怀特斯堡。

And my name is Tommy Anderson, and I'm 18 years old.

我叫汤米·安德森，今年 18 岁。

And what's your political affiliation, Tommy?

汤米，你的政治立场是什么？

I'm registered Democrat.

我是注册民主党人。

Mia Frederick Very good.

米娅·弗雷德里克 非常好。

But you know what some people say about that?

但你知道有些人对此怎么说吗？

I got this friend who said that he voted Democrat but he registered Republican.

我有一个朋友说他投票给民主党，但他注册为共和党。

And he said somehow that gives the Democrats the advantage.

他说，不知怎的，这给了民主党优势。

Kevin Howard said that.

凯文·霍华德如是说。

He said he just want to make the Republicans look bad, that a registered Republican voted for a Democrat.

他说他只是想让共和党人看起来很糟糕，因为一名登记的共和党人投票给了民主党人。

I voted for Barack Obama.

我投票给巴拉克·奥巴马。

I think there are people in the world that, in general, sort of are untrusting of politicians.

我认为世界上有些人总体上不信任政客。

God, it's just so hard to say some things.

天哪，有些话真的很难说。

I mean, especially when it's someone who is black.

我的意思是，尤其是当这个人是黑人时。

Because there are not a lot of black people around here.

因为这里黑人不多。

And in this county, I don't know of any politician that's black.

在这个县，我不知道有哪个政客是黑人。

You go to the courthouse in Whitesburg and every seat is filled with a white person.

你去怀特斯堡法院，每个座位上都坐满了白人。

I honestly think people just aren't used to that.

老实说，我认为人们只是不习惯这一点。

My name is Ice Life.

我的名字是冰生活。

Glynn Washington How old are you, Ice?

格林·华盛顿 你几岁了，艾斯？

26.

26.

I just turned 26.

我刚满26岁。

Glynn Washington And what do you do for a living?

格林·华盛顿 你以什么为生？

I voted for Obama because I feel like I'd be hating on him if I didn't.

我投票给奥巴马是因为我觉得如果我不投票的话我就会讨厌他。

It's the same reason I buy DVDs from a cat at the gas station.

这和我在加油站从一只猫那里买 DVD 的原因是一样的。

But I didn't vote thinking I'm going to change the world with this vote.

但我投票时并没有想到我会通过这次投票来改变世界。

Is a black man whose father was from Africa that had a baby with a white woman from here, going to an Ivy League college, and then becoming president of the United States the same as Marcus Garvey organizing 6 million Africans around the world?

一个父亲来自非洲的黑人与来自这里的白人妇女生下孩子，进入常春藤盟校，然后成为美国总统，这和马库斯·加维在全世界组织600万非洲人一样吗？

Is it equivalent to Martin Luther King at 25 years old leading bus boycotts?

这是否相当于25岁的马丁·路德·金领导的公交车抵制活动？

Is it the same?

是一样的吗？

And they keep playing this like that.

他们一直这样玩。

It's not the same thing.

这不是同一件事。

It is not.

它不是。

And really what I feel bad about, man, is all the black folks who I think are going to be disappointed as time goes on.

真正令我感到难过的是，我认为随着时间的推移，所有黑人都会感到失望。

They'll be like, what's going to happen with this thing and what is he able to do?

他们会想，这件事会发生什么，他能做什么？

My name is Jordan.

我的名字是乔丹。

I'm 17 years old.

我今年 17 岁。

I think him being president, it makes me feel like I could do whatever.

我认为他是总统，这让我觉得我可以做任何事情。

I could accomplish any goal that I set my mind to.

我可以实现我所设定的任何目标。

I don't have to be like the way other people see us, as a girl in a video, or on a corner, or something.

我不必像其他人看待我们的方式一样，作为视频中的女孩，或者在角落里，或者其他什么。

Is he a little bit of a superhero?

他是不是有点像超级英雄？

Or is he a man in your minds?

或者他是你心目中的男人吗？

He's a superhero man.

他是一个超级英雄的人。

He's a superhuman, like Chris Brown.

他是一个超人，就像克里斯·布朗一样。

He's a superhuman.

他是一个超人。

I'm Stetson Kennedy.

我是斯泰森·肯尼迪。

And I'm in Jacksonville, Florida, where I was born in 1916.

我于 1916 年出生在佛罗里达州杰克逊维尔。

And you were a journalist.

你是一名记者。

I think you're probably best known for going undercover with the Ku Klux Klan.

我想你最出名的可能是与三K党做卧底。

Yes, I did that, and perhaps a score of other homegrown terrorist groups.

是的，我这样做了，也许还有其他二十个本土恐怖组织这样做了。

Stetson Kennedy was speaking at civil rights rallies and writing letters and signing petitions and going to civil rights meetings starting in the '30s and '40s, when Jacksonville was pretty backwards.

从上世纪 30 年代和 40 年代开始，斯泰森·肯尼迪就开始在民权集会上发表演讲、写信、签署请愿书以及参加民权会议，当时杰克逊维尔相当落后。

He told me that during the 1930s, he worked on the WPA's Federal Writers Project in Jacksonville, with the writer Zora Neale Hurston.

他告诉我，20 世纪 30 年代，他与作家佐拉·尼尔·赫斯顿 (Zora Neale Hurston) 一起在杰克逊维尔参与 WPA 的联邦作家项目。

And one of the things she said was that it was Jacksonville that taught me I was just a little colored girl.

她说的一件事是，杰克逊维尔教会了我，我只是一个有色人种小女孩。

Jacksonville was a popular meeting ground for the Ku Klux Klan, for example.

例如，杰克逊维尔是三K党的热门聚会场所。

Whenever the US Supreme Court would occasionally had down a ruling in support of civil rights, our Jacksonville city fathers would basically convene an executive session to overrule the Supreme Court, just as a spite measure, I suppose you'd call it.

每当美国最高法院偶尔做出支持公民权利的裁决时，我们杰克逊维尔市的先辈们基本上都会召开一次行政会议来否决最高法院，我想你会称之为一种恶意措施。

So it was very much that kind of town.

所以这就是这样的城镇。

And so what was it like when Barack Obama came to Jacksonville to campaign?

那么当巴拉克·奥巴马来到杰克逊维尔竞选时情况如何呢？

Yes, well, it was unbelievable.

是的，嗯，这真是令人难以置信。

I'm still having difficulty believing it, you know?

我还是很难相信，你知道吗？

Something like 20,000 people filled the park where he made his address, Memorial Park.

他发表演讲的纪念公园内约有 20,000 人挤满了公园。

There were another 8,000 shuttled off to a nearby park, and stood in the mud.

另有 8,000 人被送往附近的公园，站在泥泞中。

And the very idea that there was that many people anywhere, on the entire peninsula, supportive of the idea of not only an African American in the White House, but all the progressive policies, the democratic things he stood for, I couldn't believe my eyes and ears.

一想到整个半岛上任何地方都有很多人不仅支持非裔美国人入主白宫，而且支持他所代表的所有进步政策和民主事物，我简直不敢相信自己的眼睛和耳朵。

What do you make of that?

你对此有何看法？

Stetson Kennedy Well, I'm glad I lived so long.

斯泰森·肯尼迪 好吧，我很高兴我活了这么久。

It was a far cry.

这是天壤之别。

The Obama gathering was a good antidote for all the Klan meetings which have taken place locally.

奥巴马的聚会是当地举行的所有三K党会议的一剂良药。

And I said to myself that I started working on the Obama campaign about 1932, and worked on it ever since.

我对自己说，我大约从 1932 年开始参与奥巴马竞选活动，从那时起就一直致力于此。

I thought of my grandfather a lot.

我很想念我的祖父。

About how he never thought he'd see a black man get this close, you know?

他从来没有想过他会看到一个黑人离得这么近，你知道吗？

I think it was a beautiful thing.

我认为这是一件美好的事情。

I'm happy I saw it in my lifetime.

我很高兴我在有生之年看到了它。

I don't think my grandparents would quite believe it.

我想我的祖父母不会相信这一点。

Like the walk on the moon, they'd say, I don't think so.

就像在月球上行走一样，他们会说，我不这么认为。

That really didn't happen.

那真的没有发生。

I feel that we, as always, no matter who it is, need to make sure that we are praying for whoever it is that's going in to be the leader of our country.

我觉得我们一如既往，无论是谁，都需要确保我们为即将成为我们国家领导人的人祈祷。

I am Katie Dullar Howard, and 41 and holding, for right now.

我是凯蒂·杜拉尔·霍华德 (Katie Dullar Howard)，现年 41 岁，目前仍在任职。

Kingdom Come Creek, Kentucky.

肯塔基州天国溪。

So I feel concerned yet optimistic.

所以我感到担忧但又乐观。

And there have been a lot of things out there floating in this world.

这个世界上漂浮着很多东西。

And so I pray that I find out that those were lies and that Obama shows me something that I can be very happy and respect him with.

因此，我祈祷我能发现这些都是谎言，祈祷奥巴马向我展示一些让我感到非常高兴并尊重他的东西。

If he tried to change this country into a country founded on Muslim issues, I fear that.

如果他试图将这个国家变成一个以穆斯林问题为基础的国家，我担心。

And I won't deny it.

我不会否认。

I'm Mike Comstock.

我是迈克·康斯托克。

And I'm 48 years old.

我今年48岁了。

I was originally born in Seattle, came out here after a couple years at the University of Washington, decided to go to Montana State University.

我最初出生在西雅图，在华盛顿大学学习几年后来到这里，决定去蒙大拿州立大学。

I'm a software engineer at a local firm.

我是一家本地公司的软件工程师。

I don't belong to any party, but I tend to strongly believe in less government, so I suppose I'd say I tend to lean conservative.

我不属于任何政党，但我倾向于坚信减少政府，所以我想我会说我倾向于保守派。

Man, we're in for a tough next three or four years.

伙计，我们接下来的三四年将会很艰难。

Even now, we see the Israelis invading Gaza, and Barack hasn't said anything in a week.

即使现在，我们看到以色列人入侵加沙，巴拉克已经一周没有说什么了。

And people are worried, like, this is making you look bad.

人们担心，这会让你看起来很糟糕。

You don't even have an opinion on the subject.

你甚至对这个问题没有意见。

And already, there's investigations.

已经有调查了。

What, Bill Richardson stepped down yesterday.

什么，比尔·理查森昨天辞职了。

There's still the Rezko thing.

还有雷兹科的事。

There's already scandals.

已经有丑闻了。

And the guy hasn't even been sworn into office.

这家伙甚至还没有宣誓就职。

So to me, these are big red flags.

所以对我来说，这些都是大危险信号。

I'm going, oh my gosh, this is scary.

我要去，天哪，这太可怕了。

Now, to the average person, they're going, oh, but look, here's pictures of him on the beach in Hawaii.

现在，对于普通人来说，他们会，哦，但是看，这是他在夏威夷海滩上的照片。

And he's so inspirational.

他是如此鼓舞人心。

And the press just loves him.

媒体很喜欢他。

He must be a great guy.

他一定是一个很棒的人。

Could be.

可能是。

But we'll see how long that love affair really lasts.

但我们会看看这段恋情到底能持续多久。

Well, it wasn't my choice to have it go like it did.

好吧，让它这样发展并不是我的选择。

And I keep hearing different, different, different.

我不断听到不同的、不同的、不同的声音。

But the cabinet he's putting together doesn't look very different to me.

但他组装的内阁在我看来并没有太大不同。

It looks very old school.

它看起来很老派。

When, in political discourse, have we assumed that someone who emerged from Chicago politics was a great guy?

在政治话语中，我们什么时候假设从芝加哥政治中脱颖而出的人是一个伟大的人？

I don't see him pulling troops.

我没看到他拉兵。

As far as I'm concerned, they could come home tomorrow.

就我而言，他们明天就可以回家了。

I don't have big hopes.

我没有太大的希望。

And I don't have any fears, because I think it's going to be exactly what it's always been.

我没有任何恐惧，因为我认为一切都会像以前一样。

I'm Adam Marsh.

我是亚当·马什。

I'm with a company called Empire Capital Partners.

我在一家名为 Empire Capital Partners 的公司工作。

My name is Thomas Graff.

我叫托马斯·格拉夫。

I'm a vice president at Northmark Capital.

我是 Northmark Capital 的副总裁。

I would consider myself to be a left-leaning Republican.

我认为自己是一名左倾共和党人。

And what about you, Tom?

那你呢，汤姆？

Thomas Graff I'm a Republican.

托马斯·格拉夫 我是共和党人。

I think the Wall Street people behind the scenes are scared to death.

我觉得幕后的华尔街人都吓死了。

I think that as the government continues to take over the economy, there's a wholesale takeover of the private sector, a plan that Obama has-- we're going to have a --

我认为，随着政府继续接管经济，私营部门将被大规模接管，这是奥巴马的一项计划——我们将有——

I'll tell you.

我告诉你。

Thomas Graff --government owning a substantial portion of major industries?

托马斯·格拉夫——政府拥有大部分主要工业？

Is that what's going to come as an outcome of this?

这就是结果吗？

What's going to happen in its place, is it's going to go back to more of the way, I would imagine, the World War II generation lived-- living within your means, being able to put 30, 40% down on a house, buying a home only when you can afford a home.

取而代之的是，它会回到更多的方式，我想，二战一代的生活方式——量入为出，能够付30%、40%的首付，只有当你买得起房子的时候才买房。

That's in and of itself a scary thought.

这本身就是一个可怕的想法。

Because that whole generation was one week away from being out on the street.

因为那一代人再过一周就要上街了。

There was no safety net.

没有安全网。

There was no savings.

没有积蓄。

Are we going back to that?

我们要回到那个吗？

Well, but is it a safe method also where middle America's been living on their credit cards, and their home equity?

好吧，但是对于依靠信用卡和房屋净值生活的美国中产阶级来说，这也是一种安全的方法吗？

And so I think that everybody will be re-conditioned from the highest earners to the lowest earners in terms of being able to live within your means.

因此，我认为从最高收入者到最低收入者，每个人都将重新适应量入为出的生活。

Look, I've got a--

看，我有一个——

That's a scary thought that the government is going to try to condition us.

政府会试图限制我们，这是一个可怕的想法。

That in and of itself is socialistic Orwellian type of speak that's scaring me now.

这本身就是社会主义奥威尔式的言论，现在让我感到害怕。

But he's-- Thomas Graff I'm scared that they're going to condition me to want to drive a hybrid, that they're going to condition me to use organic toilet paper.

但他——托马斯·格拉夫（Thomas Graff） 我担心他们会限制我驾驶混合动力汽车，他们会限制我使用有机卫生纸。

Next year, they're going to make you hand out eco-friendly candy, too, on trick or treat.

明年，他们还将让你在“不给糖就捣蛋”的活动中分发环保糖果。

Of course, I know you wouldn't normally give candy out to kids, but--

当然，我知道你通常不会给孩子们糖果，但是——

With all due respect, Adam is saying, basically, if I recall correctly, he said, people should live within their means and not spend money they don't have, I believe is what he was saying.

恕我直言，亚当说，基本上，如果我没记错的话，他说，人们应该量入为出，不要花他们没有的钱，我相信这就是他的意思。

And you're taking issue with that.

你对此有异议。

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with using credit.

是的，我不认为使用信用有什么问题。

There's no fun in living within your means.

量入为出并没有什么乐趣。

Look, we're going into, I believe-- and again, it's just one person's view-- I believe we're in unchartered territory.

听着，我相信我们正在进入——再说一遍，这只是一个人的观点——我相信我们正处于未知的领域。

We're in a pretty dark, in a pretty bad place.

我们处在一个非常黑暗、非常糟糕的地方。

And how could you not root for somebody, Democratic, Republican, how could you root against a president?

你怎么能不支持某个人，民主党、共和党，你怎么能反对总统呢？

My name's Jack Halsted.

我叫杰克·霍尔斯特德。

I'm a 64-year-old, well, I guess I could say, retired.

我今年 64 岁了，嗯，我想我可以说，退休了。

I have a very small social security allotment that I'm trying to learn to live on.

我有一笔非常小的社会保障拨款，我正在努力学习如何维持生活。

I voted for Obama.

我投票给了奥巴马。

And I've been learning how to belch the president-elect's name.

我一直在学习如何打嗝当选总统的名字。

Now, there are two ways I can do it.

现在，我有两种方法可以做到这一点。

I can either say Barack with one belch and Obama with another.

我可以说巴拉克打嗝，奥巴马打嗝。

Or if I really dig deep, I can say both words--

或者如果我真的深入挖掘的话，我可以说这两个词——

I want to go for both words.

我想要两个词。

The whole word.

整个词。

All right.

好的。

[BREATHING] I'm close.

[呼吸]我很接近了。

Don't distract me with your laughter.

别用你的笑声分散我的注意力。

[INHALES] Barack Obama.

[吸气]巴拉克·奥巴马。

Maybe we could get him in for three terms.

也许我们可以让他连任三个任期。

He did it, he did it, he did it.

他做到了，他做到了，他做到了。

I was just so proud of him.

我为他感到骄傲。

How do I feel about him?

我对他感觉如何？

I love him.

我爱他。

I just love him.

我就是爱他。

I really, really, really love him.

我真的真的真的真的很爱他。

The interviews for our Vox Obamali were conducted by Davy Rothbart in Central Michigan, Barrett Golding of Hearing Voices in Helena, Montana, Mia Frederick in WMMT in Eastern Kentucky, Glynn Washington of snapjudgmentradio.org in Oakland, California, Katie Reckdahl and Eve Abrams in New Orleans, Michael Olson in Austin, Texas, and Bryan Parras with Nuestra Palabra in Houston.

我们的 Vox Obamali 采访由密歇根州中部的 Davy Rothbart、蒙大拿州海伦娜的 Hearing Voices 的 Barrett Golding、肯塔基州东部的 WMMT 的 Mia Frederick、加利福尼亚州奥克兰的 snapjudgmentradio.org 的 Glynn Washington、新奥尔良的 Katie Reckdahl 和 Eve Abrams、德克萨斯州奥斯汀的 Michael Olson 以及德克萨斯州奥斯汀的 Michael Olson 和 Nuestra Palabra 的 Bryan Parras 进行。休斯顿。

Well, our inaugural show was produced by Alex Blumberg and me, with Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.

嗯，我们的首场演出是由 Alex Blumberg 和我以及 Jane Feltes、Sarah Koenig、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作的。

Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.

我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。

Production help from Andy Dixon and P.J.

Andy Dixon 和 P.J. 提供制作帮助

Vogt.

沃格特。

Today is our very last show with our very capable intern P.J.

今天是我们非常有能力的实习生 P.J. 的最后一场演出。

Vogt, who we are very sorry to see go.

沃格特，我们非常遗憾地看到他离开了。

P.J., we all wish you the best.

P.J.，我们都祝你一切顺利。

Seth Lind is our production manager.

塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的生产经理。

Music help from Jessica Hopper.

杰西卡·霍珀的音乐帮助。

[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org.

[致谢] 我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org。

This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.

《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。

WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who told me that he heard that Barack Obama is going to quadruple the size of public radio.

我们的老板托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 先生对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他告诉我，他听说巴拉克·奥巴马 (Barack Obama) 打算将公共广播电台的规模扩大四倍。

And he has a good source for that.

他有一个很好的来源。

Torey has a totally good source.

托雷有一个非常好的来源。

Kevin Howard said that.

凯文·霍华德如是说。

Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 我是艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。