361: Fear of Sleep - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #361 | May 9, 2025 361: Fear of Sleep Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 361 集 | 2025 年 5 月 9 日 361：睡眠恐惧 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass (HOST) IRA GLASS: As early as I remember, I was afraid to go to sleep.
序言：序言 Ira Glass（主持人） IRA GLASS：从我记事起，我就害怕睡觉。
This began when I was six.
这一切从我六岁的时候就开始了。
My uncle Lenny went off to Vietnam.
我叔叔莱尼去了越南。
And that opened up this chapter in my life where I was obsessed with death.
这开启了我人生的新篇章，我对死亡着迷。
I was scared that uncle Lenny was going to be killed.
我害怕莱尼叔叔会被杀。
But more than that, his absence underscored the fact that some day, no matter what, I was going to be drafted and I'd have to go to Vietnam and I'd be killed.
但更重要的是，他的缺席凸显了这样一个事实：有一天，无论如何，我都会被征召入伍，我必须去越南，然后我就会被杀。
And there was nothing that I or anybody I knew could do to stop that.
我或我认识的任何人都无法阻止这种情况发生。
I knew I was going to be killed because I was chubby and I was terrible at sports.
我知道我会被杀，因为我很胖，而且我的运动很糟糕。
I could barely run half a block.
我几乎跑不了半个街区。
On TV, wars seemed to involve a lot of running.
在电视上，战争似乎需要大量的奔跑。
There was crouching, there was shooting, but there was a disturbing amount of running.
有蹲伏，有射击，但也有令人不安的奔跑。
So I was six and I knew I was going to die and my mom and dad couldn't help me.
所以我六岁的时候，我知道我快要死了，而我的妈妈和爸爸却帮不了我。
Nobody could help me.
没有人能帮助我。
I'll be dead forever.
我将永远死去。
Galaxies would spin.
星系会旋转。
Humans would travel to other worlds.
人类将前往其他世界。
And I would miss all of that.
我会想念这一切。
Nobody would remember me or anybody that I had ever known forever.
没有人会记得我或我永远认识的人。
And I would lie awake at night, scared to fall asleep, because sleep seemed no different than death.
晚上我会彻夜难眠，害怕入睡，因为睡眠似乎与死亡没有什么不同。
You know.
你知道。
You were gone, not moving, not talking, not thinking, not aware-- not aware.
你走了，没有动，没有说话，没有思考，没有意识到——没有意识到。
What could be more frightening?
还有什么比这更可怕的呢？
What could be bigger?
什么可以更大？
And here was the weird part of it, I thought when I was a kid.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我就想，这就是其中奇怪的部分。
Somehow every night all the adults, all my relatives, every teacher, everybody who I'd ever heard of headed off for bed like this was no big deal.
不知何故，每天晚上所有的成年人、我所有的亲戚、每一位老师、每一个我听说过的人都会上床睡觉，就像这没什么大不了的。
Complete annihilation.
彻底歼灭。
No big deal.
没什么大不了的。
For those of us who fear sleep, there is a lot to fear.
对于我们这些害怕睡眠的人来说，有很多事情值得害怕。
And that's what we're going to talk about on today's radio show.
这就是我们今天的广播节目要讨论的内容。
It's a survey of this altered state-- this altered state where we're vulnerable and just gone.
这是对这种改变的状态的调查——在这种改变的状态下，我们变得脆弱，就这样消失了。
Having dreams where anything at all can happen.
拥有一切皆有可能发生的梦想。
Not in control of our own bodies.
无法控制我们自己的身体。
Listen to what happened to this woman.
听听这个女人的遭遇。
Denise.
丹妮丝.
It wasn't until I was maybe, I don't know, eight or nine years old that one day I woke up and it was like my eyes were open.
直到我大概，我不知道，八九岁的时候，有一天我醒来，感觉我的眼睛睁开了。
I was looking around.
我环顾四周。
I just couldn't move.
我就是动不了。
I couldn't move my arms or my legs.
我无法移动我的手臂或腿。
I couldn't turn my head.
我无法转过头。
And I felt this, like, weight on my chest.
我感觉胸口有重量。
And the first thing I thought was, oh my god.
我首先想到的是，天啊。
What happened to me?
我怎么了？
Was I in a car accident?
我出车祸了吗？
It lasted for, I don't know, maybe 30 seconds to a minute.
我不知道，它持续了大概30秒到一分钟。
And then I just kind of snapped out of it.
然后我就突然清醒了。
And I was really freaked out.
我真的吓坏了。
And I went and told my mom, I think something is wrong with me.
我去告诉妈妈，我觉得我有些不对劲。
And my family's Mexican.
我的家人是墨西哥人。
And in Mexico they have this superstition that they say the devil is sitting on your chest when that happens to you.
在墨西哥，人们有一种迷信，认为当这种情况发生在你身上时，魔鬼就坐在你的胸口上。
And she said, oh don't worry.
她说，哦，别担心。
That's just the devil sitting on your chest.
那只是坐在你胸口的恶魔。
Like that's supposed to make me feel better.
好像这应该让我感觉好点。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: As Denise got older, this paralysis has happened more and more.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：随着丹尼斯年龄的增长，这种瘫痪现象越来越多。
And sometimes when she's lying there paralyzed and awake, she hallucinates.
有时，当她瘫痪而清醒地躺在那里时，她会产生幻觉。
She sees family members who aren't there or she hears them.
她看到不在场的家人，或者听到他们的声音。
And sometimes they're mad at her.
有时他们会生她的气。
Though the only time all this happens to Denise is when she takes a nap during the day.
尽管这一切发生在丹妮丝身上的唯一一次是在她白天小睡的时候。
I've definitely avoided taking naps, no matter how tired I was.
我绝对避免小睡，无论我有多累。
I mean, I forced myself to survive on like five or six hours of sleep-- very little sleep.
我的意思是，我强迫自己靠五六个小时的睡眠来生存——睡眠很少。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: It's like that movie where what's his name appears as soon as you fall asleep.
（采访者） IRA GLASS：就像那部电影一样，你一入睡，他的名字就会出现。
Freddy Krueger.
弗雷迪·克鲁格。
Ira Glass (INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: Yeah.
Ira Glass（采访者） IRA GLASS： 是的。
Freddy Krueger.
弗雷迪·克鲁格。
Right.
正确的。
Yeah.
是的。
In college it was happening to me so regularly that I basically survived on Red Bull and not much else.
在大学里，这种情况经常发生在我身上，以至于我基本上靠红牛生存，除此之外别无他法。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Then there's Ron Vagley.
（主持人） IRA GLASS： 然后是 Ron Vagley。
He'd wake up after an hour or two of sleep and find himself, for example, still in bed, there with his wife.
例如，他会在睡一两个小时后醒来，发现自己仍然躺在床上，和妻子在一起。
(SUBJECT) RON VAGLEY: A couple times I had my hands around her neck,, choking her until I came out of it.
（主题）罗恩·瓦格利：有几次我用手掐住她的脖子，掐住她的脖子，直到我清醒过来。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: She would just wake you up?
（采访者） IRA GLASS：她会叫醒你吗？
Is that it?
是这样吗？
(SUBJECT) RON VAGLEY: Well, yeah.
（主题）罗恩·瓦格利：嗯，是的。
She'd start screaming.
她会开始尖叫。
And then I would kind of come out of it.
然后我就会摆脱它。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: Was it hard for you to see this side of yourself?
（采访者） IRA GLASS：你很难看到自己的这一面吗？
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Like you wake up and your hands are around the throat of the person who you love.
就像你醒来，你的双手掐着你爱的人的喉咙。
(SUBJECT) RON VAGLEY: Well, yeah.
（主题）罗恩·瓦格利：嗯，是的。
It was hard.
这很难。
And I was worried that I was going to hurt somebody.
我担心我会伤害别人。
Like hurt my kids or my wife.
就像伤害我的孩子或我的妻子一样。
And I felt miserable in the day thinking about what I did.
想到我那天所做的事情，我感到很痛苦。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: You must have dreaded going to bed?
（采访者） IRA GLASS：您一定很害怕睡觉吧？
(SUBJECT) RON VAGLEY: Yep.
（主题）罗恩·瓦格利：是的。
I mean you're going to sleep, tired, knowing that this is going to happen.
我的意思是你会累得睡着了，因为你知道这将会发生。
Yeah.
是的。
It wasn't much fun.
这并不有趣。
Aaaah!
啊啊啊！
Aaaah!
啊啊啊！
Carlos Schenck (SUBJECT) CARLOS SCHENCK: We have just witnessed a vivid example of a night terror of pavor nocturnus associated with violent behavior.
卡洛斯·申克（主语） 卡洛斯·申克：我们刚刚目睹了与暴力行为相关的夜惊症的生动例子。
This episode arose abruptly from slow wave or delta sleep.
这一发作是由慢波睡眠或三角洲睡眠突然引起的。
Nocturnal seizures--
夜间惊厥——
(HOST) IRA GLASS: This from a DVD put together by Doctors Carlos Schenk and Mark Mahowald of the Minnesota Regional Sleep Disorder Center.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：此内容来自明尼苏达地区睡眠障碍中心的 Carlos Schenk 医生和 Mark Mahowald 医生制作的 DVD。
The number of adults with troubled sleep, they say, is a lot higher than you probably think.
他们说，患有睡眠问题的成年人数量比你想象的要多得多。
4% of all adults have sleepwalking episodes.
4% 的成年人有过梦游经历。
That's 8 million Americans.
那是800万美国人。
Another 2% engage in sleep related violence.
另外 2% 的人参与与睡眠相关的暴力行为。
People eat when they're asleep.
人们在睡觉时吃饭。
They have sex when they're asleep.
他们在睡觉时发生性行为。
And one of the most affecting things to watch on this DVD that they assembled to educate people about various sleep disorders is a 51-year-old Japanese man who was videotaped while having a bad dream.
他们制作的这张 DVD 是为了教育人们了解各种睡眠障碍而制作的，其中最令人感动的内容之一是一名 51 岁的日本男子在做噩梦时被录像。
Oooh!
噢！
[SLEEP CRIES] Ira Glass (HOST) IRA GLASS: The man later told researchers that in this dream he's fighting off snakes.
[睡眠哭泣] Ira Glass（主持人） IRA GLASS：该男子后来告诉研究人员，在这个梦中他正在与蛇搏斗。
And in this kind of grainy, nighttime footage you can see him swat away snakes with his arms.
在这种颗粒状的夜间镜头中，你可以看到他用手臂赶走蛇。
He kicks at one with his foot.
他用脚踢了一个人。
The metal sound you're hearing is the bed frame.
您听到的金属声音是床架的声音。
Finally he picks up a pillow like it's a rock and beats one away.
最后他像捡起一块石头一样捡起一个枕头，把它打掉了。
There's something completely naked about this footage.
这段视频中有一些完全赤裸裸的东西。
It's very strange to watch another person at a moment when they are so totally vulnerable and alone and terrified.
在另一个人如此脆弱、孤独和恐惧的时刻看着他们是很奇怪的。
From WBEZ Chicago it's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our show, Fear of Sleep.
今天我们的节目《睡眠恐惧》。
We have five stories of people who either have a huge fear of sleep or, frankly, they should have a huge fear of sleep.
我们有五个关于人们的故事，他们要么对睡眠有极大的恐惧，要么坦率地说，他们应该对睡眠有极大的恐惧。
Act one, Stranger in the Night, act two, Sleep's Tiniest Enemies, act three, The Bitter Fruits of Wakefulness, act four, Hollywood Induced Nightmare, act five, A Small Taste of the Big Sleep.
第一幕，夜里的陌生人，第二幕，睡眠的最小敌人，第三幕，清醒的苦果，第四幕，好莱坞引发的噩梦，第五幕，长眠的小滋味。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Act One.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：第一幕。
Stranger in the Night.
夜里的陌生人。
There's a poem by Raymond Carver that goes, "I woke up with a spot of blood over my eye.
雷蒙德·卡弗有一首诗写道：“我醒来时眼睛上有一点血。
A scratch halfway across my forehead.
我的额头中间有一道划痕。
But I'm sleeping alone these days.
但这些天我一个人睡。
Why on earth would a man raise his hand against himself, even in sleep.
到底为什么一个人即使在睡梦中也会举手反对自己。
It's this and similar questions I'm trying to answer this morning, as I study my face in the window."
今天早上，当我研究窗外自己的脸时，我正试图回答这个问题和类似的问题。”
Well, that is probably about as good an introduction as you could get for this first story from Mike Birbiglia.
嗯，这可能是迈克·比尔比利亚对第一个故事的最好介绍了。
He told it in front of a live audience at The Moth in New York.
他在纽约 The Moth 现场向观众讲述了这件事。
(SUBJECT) MIKE BIRBIGLIA: About seven years ago I started walking in my sleep.
（主题）MIKE BIRBIGLIA：大约七年前，我开始在梦中行走。
And I would have these recurring dreams that there was a hovering insect-like jackal in our bedroom.
我会反复梦见我们的卧室里有一只像昆虫一样的豺狼在盘旋。
And I was living with my girlfriend at the time.
而且当时我和女朋友住在一起。
And I would jump on the bed and I would strike a karate pose.
我会跳到床上，摆出空手道姿势。
I'd never taken karate, but I had the books from Book Fair.
我从来没有学过空手道，但我有书展上的书。
And I would say, Abby-- that was my girlfriend-- there's a jackal in the room.
我会说，艾比——那是我的女朋友——房间里有一只豺狼。
And she got so used to it, she could talk me down while remaining asleep.
她已经习惯了，可以一边睡觉一边说服我。
She said, "There's not a jackal in the room.
她说：“房间里没有豺狼。
Go to bed." And I would say, "Are you sure?" And she would say, "Yes, Michael.
去睡觉吧。”我会说：“你确定吗？”她会说：“是的，迈克尔。
Go to bed.
去睡觉吧。
There's no jackal." And I would say, "OK." And I would go to bed knowing that there was a jackal.
没有豺狼。”我会说：“好吧。”我上床睡觉时知道有一只豺狼。
And that's trust.
这就是信任。
It was around that time I had a dream that I was in the Olympics for some kind of arbitrary event like dust-bustering.
就在那个时候，我做了一个梦，梦见自己能参加奥运会，参加一些任意的活动，比如除尘。
And they told me I got third place.
他们告诉我我获得了第三名。
And I stood up on the third place podium.
我站在了第三名的领奖台上。
And I'm feeling good about myself.
我自我感觉良好。
I'm new to the sport, you know.
你知道，我是这项运动的新手。
And they say, "You know, actually we reconsidered and you got first place." And I was like, oh, that's a marvelous promotion.
他们说：“你知道，实际上我们重新考虑了，你获得了第一名。”我当时想，哦，这真是一次了不起的晋升。
I got first place.
我得了第一名。
And I move over to the first place podium and it starts wobbling.
我走到第一名的领奖台上，它开始摇晃。
And it's wobbling and wobbling.
而且它摇摇晃晃。
And I wake up.
我醒了。
And I'm falling off the top of our bookcase in our living room.
我从客厅的书柜顶上掉了下来。
And I land on the floor, hard, on top of our Tivo.
然后我重重地落在地板上，落在我们的 Tivo 上。
And it broke into pieces.
它碎成了碎片。
And I'm disoriented on the floor.
我在地板上迷失了方向。
It's like one of these stories where people black out drinking.
这就像其中一个故事，人们喝酒后昏昏欲睡。
And they wake up in Idaho.
他们在爱达荷州醒来。
And they don't know where they are.
而且他们不知道自己在哪里。
And they're like, oh no. Hardee's.
他们就像，哦不。哈迪的。
Or whatever is there.
或者那里有什么。
But it was in my own living room.
但那是在我自己的客厅里。
I was just like, oh no. Tivo pieces.
我当时想，哦不。蒂沃件。
And I went to bed.
然后我就去睡觉了。
And Abby woke me up in the morning and she said, "Michael, what happened to the Tivo?" And I said, "I got first place.
艾比早上叫醒我，她说：“迈克尔，Tivo 出了什么事？”我说：“我得了第一名。
And it's a long story."
这是一个很长的故事。”
So at this point I thought, maybe I should see a doctor.
所以此时我想，也许我应该去看医生。
And then I thought, maybe I'll eat dinner.
然后我想，也许我该吃晚饭了。
Because that seems more convenient.
因为这样看起来更方便。
But a lot of people would say this to me.
但很多人都会这样对我说。
My parents-- you know, my dad's a doctor.
我的父母——你知道，我爸爸是一名医生。
He'd say, "You know you should really see a doctor." And I remember saying, "I'm really busy." Ahhh.
他会说：“你知道你真的应该去看医生。”我记得我说过：“我真的很忙。”啊哈。
And thinking these people were crazy.
并认为这些人疯了。
Like, they don't know how busy I am.
就像，他们不知道我有多忙。
And so I never went to a doctor.
所以我从来没有去看医生。
But I did purchase a book by a doctor named Dr. Dement, which is not the most calming name for a sleep doctor.
但我确实买了一本名叫德蒙特博士的医生写的书，这对于睡眠医生来说并不是最令人平静的名字。
But it's called The Promise of Sleep .
但它的名字叫《睡眠的承诺》。
And I learned-- and these are in Helpful Tips-- I learned turn off cable news or the news before bed, turn off your cell phone, turn off the internet, your computer.
我学会了——这些都在有用的提示中——我学会了关掉有线电视新闻或睡前新闻，关掉手机，关掉互联网和电脑。
You know, don't have big meals, that kind of thing.
你知道，不要吃大餐之类的。
And I came across in the sleep disorders, a disorder that resembled symptoms of mine.
我遇到了睡眠障碍，这种障碍与我的症状相似。
And it was called REM behavior disorder.
它被称为快速眼动行为障碍。
And people who have this have a dopamine deficiency.
患有这种疾病的人患有多巴胺缺乏症。
And dopamine's the chemical that's released from your brain into your body that paralyzes your body when you fall asleep so that you don't do what's in your brain.
多巴胺是一种从大脑释放到体内的化学物质，当你入睡时，它会麻痹你的身体，这样你就不会做大脑中的事情了。
So I thought, maybe I have this.
所以我想，也许我有这个。
And then I thought, maybe I'll eat dinner.
然后我想，也许我该吃晚饭了。
So I never went to see a doctor until about three years ago.
所以直到大约三年前我才去看医生。
I was performing in a college in Walla Walla, Washington.
我在华盛顿州沃拉沃拉的一所大学表演。
I'm a comedian by trade.
我的职业是喜剧演员。
And I was staying at a hotel called on La Quinta Inn.
我住在一家名为拉昆塔旅馆的酒店。
And some people correct me.
有些人纠正我。
No. No. No. It's La Kinta.
不，不，不，这是拉金塔。
That's not fair.
这不公平。
You can't force me to speak Spanish.
你不能强迫我说西班牙语。
I'm at La Kinta Inn in Vwalla Vwalla Washington and I fell asleep watching the news.
我在华盛顿州瓦拉瓦拉的拉金塔旅馆 (La Kinta Inn)，看着新闻就睡着了。
And it was sort of a story about war and something very chaotic.
这是一个关于战争和非常混乱的故事。
And I fell asleep.
然后我就睡着了。
And I had a dream that there was a guided missile headed towards my room.
我梦见有一枚导弹朝我的房间飞来。
And there's all these military personnel in the room with me.
和我一起在房间里的是所有这些军事人员。
And I jumped out of bed and I'm like what's the plan?
我从床上跳了起来，我想计划是什么？
And they say, its come to our attention the missile coordinates are set specifically on you.
他们说，引起我们注意的是，导弹坐标是专门针对你设置的。
And I thought, that's very bad.
我想，这非常糟糕。
Because I don't have a plan for that one.
因为我没有这方面的计划。
So I decided to jump out the window in my dream.
于是我决定在梦中跳出窗外。
And as it turns out, in my life.
事实证明，在我的生活中。
And there are two important details.
还有两个重要的细节。
One, I was on the second floor of La Quinta Inn and two, the window was closed.
一，我在拉昆塔旅馆的二楼，二，窗户关着。
So I jumped through a window like the Hulk.
所以我像绿巨人一样从窗户跳了出去。
And I say that because that's how I described it at the emergency room in Walla Walla, Washington.
我这么说是因为我在华盛顿州瓦拉瓦拉的急诊室就是这样描述的。
I was like you know the Hulk?
我就想你认识浩克吗？
He just kind of jumps through stuff.
他只是跳过一些东西。
So I jump through the window and I scream, aaaaahh!
于是我跳出了窗户，尖叫着，啊啊啊啊！
And what was remarkable is that people of this disorder are capable of doing things they couldn't do in their everyday life.
值得注意的是，患有这种疾病的人能够做他们在日常生活中无法做的事情。
It's like blacking out drinking where you don't feel any pain or inhibition.
这就像喝酒时你感觉不到任何疼痛或抑制一样。
I jumped through a second story window and I landed on the front lawn of the hotel.
我从二楼的窗户跳了下去，降落在酒店前面的草坪上。
I took a spill.
我溢出了。
I got back up and I kept running.
我站起来继续跑。
And I'm running and I'm slowly realizing I'm on the front lawn of La Kinta Inn in Vwalla Vwalla, Washington in my underwear, bleeding.
我一边跑，一边慢慢意识到自己正穿着内衣站在华盛顿州瓦拉瓦拉拉金塔旅馆的前草坪上，流着血。
And I'm like, oh no.
我想，哦不。
And it was one of those rare moments in your life where in retrospect you're like, what the hell?
这是你一生中罕见的时刻之一，回想起来，你会想，到底是什么？
And at the time you're like, I guess I'll walk to the front desk and explain what happened.
当时你会想，我想我会走到前台并解释发生了什么事。
Fortunately the person working at the front desk was mildly retarded.
幸运的是，前台工作人员有轻度智障。
And I say fortunately because he was completely unfazed by what had just happened.
我说幸运是因为他完全没有被刚刚发生的事情所困扰。
It's 3:00 in the morning.
现在是凌晨 3:00。
The phones are ringing off the hook from people staying at the hotel who just saw the guy jump out the window, screaming.
住在酒店的人们的电话响了，他们刚刚看到那个人尖叫着跳出窗外。
I'm bleeding, in my underwear, and I say, "Hello." Because as it turns out, you have to start somewhere.
我穿着内衣在流血，我说：“你好。”因为事实证明，你必须从某个地方开始。
I'm staying at the hotel-- credibility.
我住的酒店——信誉。
I had an incident wherein I jumped out of my window.
我曾经经历过一次事件，我从窗户跳了出去。
I am bleeding and I need to go to a hospital.
我正在流血，需要去医院。
And I'll never forget his reaction because he just goes, uh-unnn.
我永远不会忘记他的反应，因为他只是说，呃-嗯。
And I thought, this is the best possible reaction i could receive at this juncture.
我想，这是我此时此刻能收到的最好的反应。
And so I drove myself to the hospital.
于是我就自己开车去了医院。
I checked myself into the emergency room.
我进了急诊室检查。
I had to explain what happened three times-- the nurse and the doctor and the front desk.
我不得不向护士、医生和前台解释三遍发生的事情。
I'm the Hulk.
我是浩克。
I'm the Hulk.
我是浩克。
I'm the Hulk.
我是浩克。
And the doctor, God bless him, worked on me until about 5:30 in the morning.
上帝保佑他，医生一直在为我治疗直到早上 5:30 左右。
And he put 30 stitches in my arms and in my legs.
他在我的手臂和腿上缝了 30 针。
And he is an emergency room doctor and even he is like, you should be dead.
他是一名急诊室医生，甚至他也会说，你应该死了。
And I was like, no you should.
我当时想，不，你不应该。
I zinged him.
我刺激了他。
And about 5:30 I drove back to the hotel and I checked out.
大约5点30分，我开车回到酒店并退房。
And I actually paid for the window like any good window jumper would.
事实上，我就像任何优秀的窗户跳线者一样支付了窗户的费用。
And it was $300 for the window and about $49 for the room.
窗户的价格为 300 美元，房间的价格约为 49 美元。
And I went back to New York.
我回到了纽约。
And I did what I should have done in the first place when I saw the jackal.
当我看到豺狼时，我做了我应该做的事情。
I went to a doctor who specializes in sleepwalk disorders.
我去看了一位专门治疗梦游症的医生。
And now when I go to bed at night, I take a very strong pill and I sleep in a sleeping bag up to my neck.
现在，当我晚上睡觉时，我会服用一种非常强效的药丸，然后睡在睡袋中，直到我的脖子。
And I wear mittens so I can't open the sleeping bag.
而且我戴着手套，所以我无法打开睡袋。
And so in closing, I think that if it weren't for denial, I wouldn't be a comedian because to be a comedian you have to go on stage those first few years and bomb.
最后，我认为如果不是否认的话，我就不会成为一名喜剧演员，因为要成为一名喜剧演员，你必须在最初的几年里登上舞台并表现出色。
And then walk off stage and think, that went great.
然后走下舞台并想，这太棒了。
Because otherwise you'd never get on stage the next night.
因为否则你第二天晚上就永远不会登上舞台。
You would just think, human beings don't like me.
你可能会想，人类不喜欢我。
But sometimes denial can kill you.
但有时否认会杀死你。
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Mike Birbiglia, performing an excerpt from his one man show, "Sleepwalk With Me".
（主持人）IRA GLASS：迈克·比尔比利亚（Mike Birbiglia）正在表演他的独角戏“Sleepwalk With Me”的节选。
He's about to embark on a national tour where he tells stories and does comedy, from Cape Cod to Los Angeles, starting in August.
他即将开始全国巡演，从八月开始，从科德角到洛杉矶，他会讲故事和表演喜剧。
Catch him before he becomes too famous.
在他变得太出名之前抓住他。
He's all over to the ITunes store and the internet, Google any spelling of his name, or go to our show's website.
他经常浏览 iTunes 商店和互联网，用谷歌搜索他名字的任何拼写，或者访问我们节目的网站。
He was recorded at The Moth, where people tell stories from their own lives on stage.
他是在 The Moth 录制的，人们在舞台上讲述自己生活中的故事。
They have a free podcast-- free.
他们有一个免费的播客——免费。
And a website with all kinds of stories like the one you just heard.
还有一个网站，上面有各种各样的故事，就像您刚刚听到的那样。
They are at themoth.org.
他们在themoth.org。
And OK, one last part here and I'll swear I'll stop.
好吧，最后一部分到了，我发誓我会停下来。
If you have a sleep disorder of the sort we've been talking about so far today, there is very effective treatment.
如果您患有我们今天讨论的那种睡眠障碍，有非常有效的治疗方法。
See a doctor.
看病。
There's a little pill called Klonopin that helps most cases, as Birbiglia said.
正如比尔比利亚所说，有一种名为 Klonopin 的小药丸对大多数情况都有帮助。
The DVD that Dr. Carlos Schenck made explaining sleep disorders that we heard an excerpt of at the top of the show is called Sleep Runners and it is on the web at sleeprunners.com.
卡洛斯·申克 (Carlos Schenck) 博士制作的解释睡眠障碍的 DVD 被称为《Sleep Runners》，我们在节目顶部摘录了该 DVD，该 DVD 位于 sleeprunners.com 上。
Dr. Schenck also has this beautifully put together book about all called Paradox Lost.
申克博士还出版了一本精美的书籍，讲述了一切，名为“悖论失落”。
[MUSIC - "TO GET TO SLEEP" BY BRITISH SEA POWER]
[音乐 - 英国海权公司的《TO GET TO SLEEP》]
We now turn to people who battle at night, but not with their own dreams.
现在我们转向那些在夜间奋战的人，但他们并不是为了自己的梦想而奋斗。
And these people battle critters-- living creatures of the night.
这些人与小动物——夜间的生物战斗。
One of the producers of our show, Nancy Updike, has been looking into this.
我们节目的制片人之一南希·厄普代克一直在研究这个问题。
(HOST) NANCY UPDIKE: I talked to a woman in Baltimore with an unusual name.
（主持人）南希·厄普迪克：我在巴尔的摩与一位名字不寻常的女士交谈过。
And she doesn't want that name linked in anyone's mind with a house full of pests.
她也不希望这个名字在任何人的脑海中与充满害虫的房子联系在一起。
So I agreed to call her Miss M on the radio.
于是我同意在广播中称呼她M小姐。
Miss M has had some very bad nighttime experiences with roaches starting with her old place on Liberty Heights Avenue.
从她在自由高地大道的老住处开始，M 小姐就曾在夜间遇到过一些非常糟糕的蟑螂经历。
(SUBJECT) MISS M: It was about 2:00 o'clock in the morning.
（主题）M 小姐：当时是凌晨 2:00 左右。
I was laying on the couch.
我躺在沙发上。
And I was on the couch because all the rooms was full.
我坐在沙发上，因为所有的房间都满了。
And I just felt something in my ear.
我只感觉到耳朵里有东西。
And so I knew exactly what it was when I felt it.
所以当我感觉到它时，我确切地知道那是什么。
And it was making this sshhusshhusshhu.
它正在制造这个 sshhusshhusshhu。
And I jumped up and I started screaming.
我跳了起来，开始尖叫。
My, my [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
我的，我的[无法理解]。
She came up to the room.
她来到房间。
We told everybody else in the house we were on our way to the hospital.
我们告诉家里的其他人我们正在去医院的路上。
He stuck this thing in my ear about this long.
他把这个东西塞在我耳朵里这么久。
Pulled it out.
把它拉了出来。
It didn't take but a minute to get out.
没过一分钟就出来了。
(INTERVIEWER) NANCY UPDIKE: And he showed to you.
（采访者） NANCY UPDIKE：他向你展示了。
And it was a roach.
那是一只蟑螂。
(INTERVIEWER) NANCY UPDIKE: How big was it?
（采访者） NANCY UPDIKE： 它有多大？
(SUBJECT) MISS M: It was a big one.
（主题）M 小姐：这是一件大事。
It was a big one.
这是一件大事。
No little tiny one.
没有一个小小的。
It cost about $165 to get it out.
取出它花费了大约165美元。
That doctor gonna charge me.
那个医生要向我收费。
(HOST) NANCY UPDIKE: Miss M doesn't live in that place anymore.
（主持人） NANCY UPDIKE：M 小姐不再住在那个地方了。
She lives in a small house in O'Donnell Heights.
她住在奥唐纳高地的一所小房子里。
The house is tidy, but it's public housing and it has serious multiple infestations.
房子很整洁，但是公共住房，而且有多处严重感染。
The mice in Miss M's apartment have abated temporarily this week for some reason, which has left the gluey mouse traps free for armies of roaches to get stuck on.
由于某种原因，M小姐公寓里的老鼠本周暂时减少了，这使得粘性捕鼠器可以自由地被蟑螂大军困住。
Every sticky rectangle has dozens of roaches on it, waving their doomed antennae.
每个粘性矩形上都有数十只蟑螂，挥舞着它们注定要失败的触角。
And yet in spite of the glue traps, the Raid, the Boric acid, there are still roaches in every drawer she pulls open for me, every cabinet, the sink.
然而，尽管有胶水陷阱、突袭、硼酸，她为我打开的每个抽屉、每个柜子、水槽里仍然有蟑螂。
They mill by the hinges of closet doors, they saunter down the walls, absolutely unafraid.
他们在壁橱门的铰链旁转来转去，沿着墙壁漫步，完全无所畏惧。
Nighttime, of course, is the worst.
当然，夜间是最糟糕的。
Miss M's daughter Brittany, without even hearing her mother's roach in ear story, told me she got a roach in her ear too, not just once.
M小姐的女儿布列塔尼，甚至没有听过她母亲耳朵里有蟑螂的故事，就告诉我，她耳朵里也有蟑螂，而且不止一次。
Twice.
两次。
Got in my ear twice.
进了我耳朵两次。
And one had got in my boyfriend's ear.
其中一个传到了我男朋友的耳朵里。
We had to go to the emergency room.
我们不得不去急诊室。
(INTERVIEWER) NANCY UPDIKE: Was it hard to go to sleep after they got in your ear?
（采访者） NANCY UPDIKE：当它们进入你的耳朵后，你会很难入睡吗？
Was it scary?
可怕吗？
I thought of putting tissue in my ear so they can't bother me as much.
我想在耳朵里塞上纸巾，这样它们就不会打扰我了。
But yeah, it was hard to go to sleep.
但是，是的，很难入睡。
They crawled on the bed.
他们在床上爬行。
I didn't like it.
我不喜欢它。
Yeah, it was hard.
是的，这很难。
It was very hard.
这非常困难。
Because it was a lot.
因为数量很多。
(HOST) NANCY UPDIKE: A lot is exactly the problem, Miss M says.
（主持人）南希·厄普迪克：M 小姐说，问题出在很多方面。
(SUBJECT) MISS M: You got to have a lot of roaches in your house to get them in your ear.
（主题）M 小姐：你家里必须有很多蟑螂，它们才会进入你的耳朵。
Because there's one or two they not going for your ear.
因为有一两个它们不适合你的耳朵。
They looking for some food.
他们在寻找食物。
(INTERVIEWER) NANCY UPDIKE: They just end up in your ear by mistake.
（采访者） NANCY UPDIKE：它们只是错误地进入了你的耳朵。
(SUBJECT) MISS M: Yeah.
（主题）M 小姐：是的。
Yeah.
是的。
By mistake.
误。
And then they can't go backwards.
然后他们就不能后退了。
So they can't come out.
所以他们不能出来。
Roaches only crawl one way.
蟑螂只能以一种方式爬行。
(HOST) NANCY UPDIKE: Miss M says she's not looking to move.
（主持人）南希·厄普迪克：M 小姐说她不想搬家。
The neighborhood's pretty safe.
小区还是蛮安全的
There's no gunfire at night.
晚上没有枪声。
The kids can play outside.
孩子们可以在外面玩。
And she's not mad at the city, her landlord.
她并不生这座城市的气，也不生她的房东的气。
She's lived with roaches for a long time.
她和蟑螂一起生活了很长时间。
And her expectations for getting rid of them, pretty low.
她对摆脱它们的期望非常低。
She's gracious letting me ask questions about how many bugs she and her family deal with every night.
她很慷慨地让我询问她和她的家人每天晚上要处理多少虫子。
Is it 500?
是500吗？
--5,000?
——五千？
But she also makes clear that for her the questions are beside the point.
但她也明确表示，对她来说，这些问题不是重点。
(SUBJECT) MISS M: Do you have to say anything about roaches?
（主题）M 小姐：关于蟑螂，您有什么要说的吗？
I don't think about roaches.
我不考虑蟑螂。
It's the normal thing around here.
这是这里很正常的事情。
We just live with it.
我们只是忍受它。
We just live with it.
我们只是忍受它。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: That story from Nancy Updike.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：南希·厄普代克的故事。
And oh, we are not done.
哦，我们还没有完成。
We are not done with the critters that make people scared to climb inside their own beds.
我们还没有结束那些让人们不敢爬进自己床上的生物。
These people that you're about to hear, they all live in the same apartment building.
您将要听到的这些人都住在同一栋公寓楼里。
(SUBJECT) TENANT 1: We didn't know exactly what it was, but something was biting us.
（对象） 租户 1：我们不知道它到底是什么，但有东西在咬我们。
(SUBJECT) TENANT 2: But I always complained to my wife, look at this.
（主题）租户 2：但我总是向我的妻子抱怨，看看这个。
You know what I mean.
你知道我的意思。
You know something biting me.
你知道有什么东西在咬我。
(SUBJECT) TENANT 3: We're pretty sure that they're coming from inside the walls and maybe up through the floorboards.
（主题）租户 3：我们非常确定它们来自墙内，也可能穿过地板。
(SUBJECT) TENANT 4: And I told my husband, I said I seen bed bugs.
（主题）租户 4：我告诉我丈夫，我说我看到了臭虫。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: This July at 349 Saint John's Place in Brooklyn, you would be able to tell that the bed bugs had returned by the amount of furniture being thrown out on the curb.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：今年 7 月，在布鲁克林圣约翰广场 349 号，你可以通过路边扔掉的家具数量来判断臭虫已经卷土重来。
If you walked down the block you'd see mattresses and bookcases spray painted with the words "Bed Bugs-- Do Not Use" in big letters to warn off neighbors who might think of taking the stuff home.
如果你沿着街区走下去，你会看到床垫和书柜上喷有大写的“臭虫——请勿使用”字样，以警告邻居可能想把这些东西带回家。
Robyn Semien, another one of our producers, stopped inside.
我们的另一位制片人罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien) 在里面停了下来。
(HOST) ROBYN SEMIEN: Though Stephanie agreed to talk to me, at first she didn't want to invite me inside her apartment.
（主持人）ROBYN SEMIEN：虽然斯蒂芬妮同意与我交谈，但一开始她并不想邀请我进入她的公寓。
She and her husband and five-year-old daughter never have guests over and haven't for years because of the bed bugs.
她和她的丈夫以及五岁的女儿从来没有接待过客人，而且因为臭虫的原因已经好几年没有接待客人了。
Like Miss M, she asked that we not give her real name.
和 M 小姐一样，她要求我们不要透露她的真实姓名。
Her kids got to go to school and she's got to deal with moms who might hear this on the radio.
她的孩子们必须去上学，而她必须与可能在广播中听到这一消息的妈妈们打交道。
So that's why I'm calling her Stephanie.
这就是为什么我叫她斯蒂芬妮。
Her sleep is interrupted all the time by bed bugs, by the full-grown ones that are brown and easy to spot and the babies, that are just little white specks.
她的睡眠总是被臭虫、成熟的棕色且容易发现的臭虫和婴儿（只是白色的小斑点）打断。
Waking up in the middle of the night, sometimes you'll find them and they're white and then their belly is filled with your blood.
有时半夜醒来，你会发现它们是白色的，然后它们的肚子里充满了你的血。
And sort of their belly is all red.
他们的肚子都是红色的。
And you can see it.
你可以看到它。
But once I realized that there are these little white things and I was sleeping on white sheets with little blue dots.
但当我意识到有这些白色的小东西时，我睡在带有小蓝点的白色床单上。
And then that's when the sheets felt like they were crawling, which is really unmistakable and so hard to sleep in a bed where you feel like the sheets are crawling.
然后就是床单感觉像在爬行的时候，这真的很明显，而且在感觉床单在爬行的床上很难入睡。
When I would wake up with bites, if I found them or didn't find them I knew more bites were coming.
当我醒来时被叮咬，无论我是否找到它们，我都知道还会有更多的叮咬。
So the process of going back to sleep is filled with thoughts of more bugs coming.
所以回去睡觉的过程中充满了更多虫子即将到来的想法。
(HOST) ROBYN SEMIEN: The bed bugs didn't take over the building overnight.
（主持人）ROBYN SEMIEN：臭虫并不是一夜之间占领整栋大楼的。
Like many of the residents, they have been there for years, locked in a tug of war where sometimes the residents are winning and sometimes it's the bugs.
和许多居民一样，他们已经在那里呆了很多年了，陷入了一场拉锯战，有时居民获胜，有时则是虫子。
When the bugs arrived, Stephanie's daughter was just two.
当虫子到来时，斯蒂芬妮的女儿才两岁。
And started waking up in the middle of the night scratching and crying.
然后开始在半夜醒来，抓伤和哭泣。
Stephanie and her husband moved her to a different room and pretty soon had to relocate themselves too, out of their own bedroom to sleep on an air mattress in the living room.
斯蒂芬妮和她的丈夫把她搬到了另一个房间，很快也不得不搬出自己的卧室，睡在客厅的气垫上。
This was a complete failure.
这是一次彻底的失败。
The bugs followed.
错误也随之而来。
It turns out, Stephanie says, they'd simply moved the bugs' food source.
斯蒂芬妮说，事实证明，他们只是转移了虫子的食物来源。
The food source being them.
食物来源就是它们。
And they drove her crazy.
他们让她发疯。
Think about in the middle of the night, there's a lot of adrenaline in the middle of the night.
想想半夜的时候，半夜的肾上腺素就很多。
These like middle of the night bites and trying to figure out where they were.
这些就像半夜咬东西并试图找出它们在哪里。
I mean it's not just sort of you're waking up and scratching and you're sleepy.
我的意思是，这不仅仅是你醒来、抓挠和困倦的情况。
Like I would wake up in full combat mode: Rage, rage, rage, rage.
就像我会在完全战斗模式中醒来一样：愤怒，愤怒，愤怒，愤怒。
And then back to bed.
然后回到床上。
It sucks.
太糟糕了。
I definitely upped my coffee intake during that time.
那段时间我确实增加了咖啡的摄入量。
I mean I was needing to compensate for the fact that I wasn't getting a full night's sleep.
我的意思是我需要补偿我没有睡一整晚的事实。
I think it made me a little more twisted.
我想这让我更加扭曲了。
I was feeling a little twisted-- dark.
我感觉有点扭曲——黑暗。
There's a feeling of, like, I am being assaulted and there's nothing I can do.
有一种感觉，就像我被袭击了，但我无能为力。
(HOST) ROBYN SEMIEN: Stephanie and her husband exterminated.
（主持人）罗宾·塞米恩：斯蒂芬妮和她的丈夫被消灭了。
They bought their own pesticides.
他们自己购买农药。
They put all of their clothes, sheets, towels, pillows, and all of their daughter's toys in clean plastic bags and lived out of the plastic bags.
他们把所有的衣服、床单、毛巾、枕头和女儿所有的玩具都装在干净的塑料袋里，靠着塑料袋生活。
They threw out half the books they owned and then vacuumed the bugs out of each page of the books they kept.
他们扔掉了一半的书，然后用真空吸尘器从他们保留的书的每一页中清除了虫子。
Put them in plastic bags.
将它们放入塑料袋中。
They coated the legs of their beds in Vaseline because Stephanie read somewhere that the bed bugs couldn't climb on Vaseline.
他们在床腿上涂了凡士林，因为斯蒂芬妮在某处读到，臭虫无法爬上凡士林。
They couldn't afford to move.
他们搬不起。
Lately it seems to be working.
最近它似乎正在发挥作用。
And when you visit their apartment you can't tell anything's wrong.
当你参观他们的公寓时，你看不出有什么问题。
It's clean.
很干净。
It's neat.
很整洁。
And when I ask Stephanie if I might see a bed bug somewhere, she doesn't seem sure.
当我问斯蒂芬妮是否会在某个地方看到臭虫时，她似乎并不确定。
But says we might find a stray in the couch she's sitting on.
但说我们可能会在她坐的沙发上发现一只流浪狗。
It has dark brown cushions and a dark wood frame.
它有深棕色的垫子和深色的木框架。
And it's sentimental to Stephanie and her husband, the first piece of furniture they bought when they moved in together.
这对斯蒂芬妮和她的丈夫来说是一种感伤，这是他们搬到一起时购买的第一件家具。
A few years ago to save it from the bed bugs, Stephanie's husband replaced the foam and reupholstered it himself.
几年前，为了避免臭虫的侵害，斯蒂芬妮的丈夫更换了泡沫，并亲自重新装饰了它。
(INTERVIEWER) ROBYN SEMIEN: To be honest, I think I don't really want to know the full extent in the couch.
（采访者）ROBYN SEMIEN：说实话，我想我并不是真的想知道沙发上的全部情况。
Let's take a look.
我们来看一下。
Robyn Semien (HOST) ROBYN SEMIEN: She squats by the couch and starts to pull at the corner of the seat cushion.
Robyn Semien（主持人） ROBYN SEMIEN：她蹲在沙发旁，开始拉座垫的一角。
Oh.
哦。
Oh, no. I may actually have a little freak-out.
哦，不。我可能真的有点害怕。
(INTERVIEWER) ROBYN SEMIEN: What did you see in there?
（采访者） ROBYN SEMIEN：你在那里看到了什么？
So there's a little burgeoning bed bug colony.
所以有一个正在迅速发展的臭虫群。
See these folds?
看到这些褶皱了吗？
This is where like to-- but it's on this side.
这是我想要的地方——但它在这边。
So you can take a peek, if you like.
所以如果你愿意的话，你可以看一下。
(INTERVIEWER) ROBYN SEMIEN: I see nothing.
（采访者） ROBYN SEMIEN：我什么也没看到。
You will.
你会。
Robyn Semien (HOST) ROBYN SEMIEN: To me it doesn't look like much, like brown dust or tobacco that's come out of a cigarette and some white powder mixed in.
Robyn Semien（主持人） ROBYN SEMIEN：对我来说，它看起来并不多，就像从香烟中排出的棕色灰尘或烟草，以及一些白色粉末的混合物。
Oh, my god.
哦，天啊。
Robyn Semien (HOST) ROBYN SEMIEN: But it hits Stephanie much harder, like here we go again.
罗宾·塞米恩（主持人） 罗宾·塞米恩：但这对斯蒂芬妮的打击更大，就像我们又来了。
Like actually it looks mostly like grown bed bugs, with a few white-- I haven't been getting that many bites on the couch.
事实上，它看起来大多像长大的臭虫，有一些白色的——我在沙发上没有被咬那么多。
But the fact that it's in the upholstery makes it-- there's just nothing to be done.
但事实上，它在室内装潢中，这使得我们无事可做。
I'll probably go and get the pesticide that we have just so these guys don't get dinner tonight.
我可能会去拿我们现有的杀虫剂，这样这些家伙今晚就不会吃晚饭了。
And then tomorrow I'll ask my husband to take the couch downstairs.
然后明天我会让我丈夫把沙发搬到楼下。
Yeah.
是的。
Robyn Semien (HOST) ROBYN SEMIEN: A few years ago Stephanie decided to do an experiment to see how long the bed bugs could live without food, without feeding on her family.
罗宾·塞米恩（主持人） 罗宾·塞米恩：几年前，斯蒂芬妮决定做一个实验，看看臭虫在没有食物、不以家人为食的情况下能活多久。
She found two baby bed bugs and kept them in a sealed plastic deli container on her window sill.
她发现了两只小臭虫，并将它们放在窗台上的密封塑料熟食容器中。
Months passed and instead of dying, they bred.
几个月过去了，它们不但没有死亡，反而繁殖了。
She'd grown a colony of bed bugs, in an apartment of bed bugs, in a building of bed bugs.
她在一间有臭虫的公寓里、一栋有臭虫的大楼里养了一群臭虫。
She ended up tossing the whole thing out because she could and because she was scared they might find a way to escape.
她最终把整个东西扔掉了，因为她可以，因为她害怕他们可能会找到逃跑的方法。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Robyn Simeon.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：罗宾·西蒙。
A week or two after this story first aired on our show a year ago, the landlord of 349 Saint John's Place hired a new exterminator who now treats the building regularly.
一年前，这个故事在我们的节目中首次播出一两周后，圣约翰广场 349 号的房东雇佣了一名新的灭虫员，现在他会定期对这栋大楼进行清理。
Stephanie says her apartment has been bug free since.
斯蒂芬妮说，从那以后她的公寓就再也没有出现过虫子了。
Coming up, somebody who consciously trains himself not to fall asleep and then must suffer the consequences.
接下来，一个有意识地训练自己不要入睡的人，然后必须承受后果。
And more.
还有更多。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
From Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，来自芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: It's This American Life.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program of course we choose the theme and bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择主题，并为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today show, Fear of Sleep.
今天的节目是《睡眠恐惧》。
We've arrived at Act Three of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three.
第三幕。
The Bitter Fruits of Wakefulness.
觉醒的苦果。
We have this story from Joel Lovell.
我们有乔尔·洛弗尔的这个故事。
A warning before we start this story to sensitive listeners that this story acknowledges the existence of sex and sexual feelings.
在我们开始这个故事之前，向敏感的听众发出警告，这个故事承认性和性感觉的存在。
I've been told that the insomnia I've struggled with on and off for most of my life comes from drinking too much caffeine or eating too much sugar or sleeping on a bed that's too soft or too hard or too flat.
有人告诉我，我一生中的大部分时间都断断续续地与失眠作斗争，原因是喝了太多咖啡因、吃了太多糖，或者睡在太软、太硬或太平的床上。
That I don't exercise enough or that I exercise too much.
要么是我运动量不够，要么是我运动量太大。
Or that I exercise the right amount, but at the wrong time of day.
或者我锻炼的量是正确的，但是在一天中的错误时间。
Or that it's the result of watching TV or using a computer right before I go to bed.
或者这是我睡觉前看电视或使用电脑的结果。
Though isn't that when everyone pokes around on the computer or watches TV?
但这不就是每个人都在电脑上闲逛或看电视的时候吗？
I've also been told that I should have more sex, which was good to hear.
我还被告知我应该有更多的性生活，这很高兴。
But then I was told I should have less.
但后来我被告知我应该少吃一点。
What my insomnia is really about is being afraid.
我失眠的真正原因是害怕。
I don't mean being afraid of something happening to my daughters or to my wife or to my job or whatever other adult fears.
我并不是说害怕我的女儿、我的妻子、我的工作或其他成年人担心的事情发生。
I mean it's about being afraid when I was a kid.
我的意思是，我小时候很害怕。
Specifically when I was 11 years old, the year I trained myself not to sleep.
特别是在我11岁的时候，那一年我训练自己不睡觉。
It wasn't that hard.
这并不难。
I had all the normal childhood fears to draw on.
我有所有正常的童年恐惧可以利用。
Pops Ferrara, for instance.
例如，流行音乐费拉拉。
He was on my PeeWee football team, a fifth grader just like me.
他是我的 PeeWee 橄榄球队的成员，和我一样是五年级学生。
Though he was the kind of fifth grader who could get the nickname Pops.
尽管他是那种可以得到“爸爸”绰号的五年级学生。
He was squat, and bowlegged, and crazily muscular.
他身材矮胖，罗圈腿，肌肉发达得惊人。
And he had a raspy voice that was indistinguishable from the voice of his father, who was also called Pops.
他的声音沙哑，与他父亲（也被称为波普斯）的声音没有区别。
Once in practice, I reached out to slap hands with Pops, the younger.
有一次练习时，我伸手去和小爸爸拍手。
And he took hold of my wrist and turned my hand palm up.
他握住我的手腕，将我的手掌向上。
And hawked a huge loogie into the center of it.
并把一个巨大的卢吉叫到了它的中心。
He scared the crap out of me.
他把我吓坏了。
It wasn't just Pops, though.
不过，这不仅仅是流行音乐。
I was afraid of the Pawnic twins, with their fantastic breasts and the way they sat on the jungle gym smoking their parents' cigarettes.
我害怕波尼克双胞胎，她们有着美妙的胸部，还有她们坐在攀登架上抽着父母香烟的样子。
I was afraid of not doing perfectly in school and then afraid of being the kid who did perfectly in school.
我害怕在学校表现不佳，然后害怕成为在学校表现出色的孩子。
I was afraid of hobos.
我害怕流浪汉。
This isn't a joke.
这不是玩笑。
We lived on a dead-end street, next to a railroad track.
我们住在一条死胡同里，靠近铁轨。
And one night my father woke up and chased two of them out of our house.
一天晚上，我父亲醒来，把他们两个赶出了家门。
I was afraid of my father having a heart attack because his father had died of a heart attack when he was a kid and had been buried in the cemetery across the street from his house.
我害怕父亲心脏病发作，因为他父亲小时候因心脏病去世，埋在他家对面的墓地里。
And I was afraid that when my father died of his heart attack, it would be on a night when my older brother didn't come home until very late, which was happening more and more.
我担心父亲因心脏病去世的那天晚上，哥哥很晚才回家，这种情况越来越多。
He was 17 years old, a senior in high school, and something bad had come undone in him.
他当时17岁，是一名高三学生，他身上的一些不好的事情已经被消除了。
He'd started going out each night and coming home at midnight and then sometimes at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning.
他开始每天晚上出去，半夜回家，有时在凌晨 2:00 或 3:00 回家。
Wild-eyed and belligerent, saying weird stuff that we attributed to his being drunk or high, but that much later we realized were the first signs of his schizophrenia.
他眼神狂暴，好斗，说一些奇怪的话，我们认为这是他喝醉了或吸毒所致，但很久以后我们才意识到这是他精神分裂症的第一个迹象。
My father would sit in the fake leather recliner in our living room, in his boxer shorts and t-shirt, waiting for my brother to come home.
我父亲会穿着平角短裤和 T 恤，坐在客厅的假皮躺椅上，等待我哥哥回家。
And the moment my brother opened the door, the questions and shouting and occasional furniture-toppling fistfight would erupt.
当我哥哥打开门的那一刻，就会爆发出质问、叫喊，甚至偶尔会发生打翻家具的打斗。
I stayed up those nights and watched out my window, waiting for my brother to suddenly appear beneath the streetlamp on our block.
那些夜晚，我熬夜看着窗外，等待我的兄弟突然出现在我们街区的路灯下。
One night he stopped there and did an impromptu martial arts kata, punching and kicking the air in front of him for nearly half an hour, in the middle of the circle of white light.
一天晚上，他停在那里，在白光圆圈的中央，即兴打出了一套武术式，对着面前的空气拳打脚踢了近半个小时。
As soon as I saw him I'd get out of bed and go into the living room, hoping that my presence there would keep things from escalating, which occasionally it did.
我一看到他，就会起床走进客厅，希望我的存在能够阻止事情升级，有时确实如此。
And so I taught myself not to go to sleep.
所以我告诉自己不要睡觉。
It was mostly just a matter of queuing up the highlight reel of anxiety and letting the images flicker away inside my head.
这主要只是将焦虑的精彩片段排队，让图像在我的脑海中闪烁。
Pops Ferrara pinning me to the ground and spitting in my face.
费拉拉爸爸把我按在地上，朝我脸上吐口水。
Or the hobos, who at that very moment were no doubt sitting on the tracks of above our house waiting for the lights to go out.
或者是那些流浪汉，他们此刻无疑正坐在我们房子上方的铁轨上等待灯光熄灭。
Or my dad's weak heart and what his face would look like when it started to clinch inside his chest.
或者我父亲脆弱的心脏，以及当他的脸开始在他的胸口内紧缩时的样子。
I dialed up all the imaginary drama inside my head, which kept me awake, which then allowed me to dial down the very real drama that existed each night inside our house.
我调出了脑子里所有想象的戏剧，这让我保持清醒，然后我又调低了每天晚上发生在我们房子里的非常真实的戏剧。
And it worked.
它奏效了。
It worked so well in fact that almost immediately there were consequences.
事实上，它的效果非常好，几乎立刻就产生了后果。
By training myself to fear sleep, it became y default mode.
通过训练自己害怕睡眠，它成为了我的默认模式。
I set myself up for a lifetime of late night distress, unproductive self-probing, and troubling discoveries I'd never have made if I hadn't been awake in the middle of the night.
我让自己终生陷入深夜的痛苦之中，毫无成效的自我探索，以及如果我没有在半夜醒来的话我永远不会发现的令人不安的发现。
The first and maybe the biggest came at the end of our PeeWee football season in the fall of 1977.
第一个，也许也是最大的一次发生在 1977 年秋天我们的 PeeWee 橄榄球赛季结束时。
We'd played all the local teams and won all our games.
我们与所有当地球队交手并赢得了所有比赛。
And so we were selected to play in a PeeWee sanctioned Turkey Bowl in Seaford, Long Island, seven hours away.
因此，我们被选中参加 PeeWee 批准的土耳其碗比赛，地点是长岛西福德，距离酒店有 7 个小时的路程。
When our coach gave us the news, all the kids on my team raised their helmets in the air and hooted like they'd seen real players do on TV.
当我们的教练告诉我们这个消息时，我们队的所有孩子都将头盔举到空中并大声叫喊，就像他们在电视上看到真正的球员所做的那样。
What I thought was, oh Jesus, another two weeks of dodging Pops Ferrara, great.
我的想法是，天啊，再躲两周费拉拉，太棒了。
It was worse than that though.
但情况比那更糟糕。
We weren't going to bunk together in motel rooms, which would have been bad enough.
我们不会一起睡在汽车旅馆房间里，那样就已经够糟糕的了。
We were going to stay with the families of players on the opposing team.
我们要和对方球队球员的家人住在一起。
As you might imagine, I was a kid who dreaded sleeping over at anyone's house, much less a stranger's.
正如你可能想象的那样，我是一个害怕在任何人家里过夜的孩子，更不用说陌生人家了。
In part because of garden variety anxiety, and in part because I worried about what might happen in my own house if I wasn't there.
部分是因为花园品种焦虑，部分是因为我担心如果我不在那里，我自己的房子里会发生什么。
I tried every excuse to get out of it, but nothing worked.
我尝试了各种借口来摆脱困境，但没有任何效果。
And so when the time arrived, I ate breakfast in silence as my mother packed my lunch.
时间到了，我默默地吃着早餐，妈妈给我准备了午餐。
Then rode with my father to the parking lot outside Perkins Pancake House, where I boarded our bus and sat as far away from Pops as possible.
然后我和父亲一起骑车到珀金斯煎饼屋外的停车场，在那里我登上了巴士，坐在离爸爸尽可能远的地方。
Three hundred or so miles later we arrived at another parking lot and car after car pulled up and took my teammates away.
大约三百英里后，我们到达另一个停车场，一辆又一辆的汽车停下来，带走了我的队友。
Eventually the family I'd be staying with arrived, a big square-headed man with his two sons, smaller versions of him.
最终，我要住的一家人来了，一个高大的方头男人和他的两个儿子，两个儿子是他的小版本。
One a few years older than I was and the other my age.
一个比我大几岁，另一个和我同龄。
They sat silently on either side of me in the back seat of their station wagon as their father talked about football all the back to their home.
他们静静地坐在旅行车后座的我两侧，而他们的父亲在回到家时一直在谈论足球。
Their mother greeted us on their front lawn.
他们的母亲在他们家前的草坪上迎接我们。
Her face was sweet and chubby and she wore a Fighting Irish baseball cap over her Brillo-y hair.
她的脸甜美而胖乎乎的，一顶爱尔兰战斗棒球帽遮住了她那蓬松的头发。
She put her arm around my shoulders as she led me into their house.
当她带我走进他们的房子时，她用手臂搂住我的肩膀。
It was dark in there, all heavy furniture and curtains and there was Notre Dame paraphernalia all over the place: A Notre Dame blanket and throw pillow on the sofa.
里面很黑，所有的家具和窗帘都很重，到处都是巴黎圣母院的用具：沙发上有巴黎圣母院的毯子和抱枕。
A Notre Dame latch hook rug on the dark-paneled family room wall.
深色镶板的家庭房间墙上挂着圣母院的钩形地毯。
Notre Dame posters all over the bedroom that the brothers shared.
兄弟俩共用的卧室里贴满了圣母院的海报。
The kid my age, the one I'd be playing the next day, he barely talked to me.
这个和我同龄的孩子，也就是我第二天要玩的那个孩子，他几乎不跟我说话。
And his older brother spoke only when he wanted to mock the two of us.
而他的哥哥只有在想嘲笑我们两个的时候才开口说话。
We sat in their TV room and watched a college football game while the father, who was also an assistant coach of his son's team, unleashed an endless commentary about blocking and short pass routes and the wishbone offense.
我们坐在他们的电视房里观看一场大学橄榄球比赛，而父亲，同时也是他儿子球队的助理教练，则对拦网、短传路线以及叉骨进攻进行了无休止的评论。
Before dinner, I stared into my plate as they said grace.
晚餐前，我盯着我的盘子，听他们说恩典。
We had pot roast and potatoes, which my mother cooked all the time.
我们吃了炖肉和土豆，这是我妈妈经常做的。
But this didn't taste like hers.
但这味道不像她的。
Even their ice cubes had a weird smell to them.
甚至他们的冰块也有股奇怪的气味。
And after dessert and more endless football talk we played Atari, which the mother told the two brothers to include me in.
吃完甜点和更多没完没了的足球谈话后，我们玩了雅达利，母亲告诉两兄弟让我也参加。
She must have sensed my discomfort because before bed she looked into my eyes and said that if there was anything I wanted, they were just down the hall.
她一定是感觉到了我的不适，因为睡觉前她看着我的眼睛说，如果我想要什么，它们就在走廊那头。
That it was no bother to wake them if I needed to.
如果我需要的话，不用费心去叫醒他们。
I slept on the floor in a sleeping bag between the two brothers' beds.
我睡在两兄弟床之间的睡袋里的地板上。
They had NFL bedspreads and a Pittsburgh Steelers poster on the ceiling overhead.
他们的天花板上贴着 NFL 床罩和一张匹兹堡钢人队的海报。
We talked for a few minutes about the game the next day.
第二天我们就这场比赛讨论了几分钟。
And the older brother went on about how my team was going to slaughter his brother's, which was kind of him.
哥哥继续说我的团队将如何屠杀他兄弟的团队，他真是太好了。
And then before long we stopped talking and they both drifted off to sleep.
不久我们就不再说话了，他们都睡着了。
I don't know how much time passed.
我不知道过去了多少时间。
In my memory it's hours, though that can't really be the case.
在我的记忆中，已经是几个小时了，但事实并非如此。
I started thinking of home, wondering if my parents were awake and if my brother was still out.
我开始想家，想知道我的父母是否醒了，我的兄弟是否还在外面。
And then I started wondering if the mother here in this house would check on us.
然后我开始想知道这所房子里的母亲是否会检查我们。
When it was clear she wasn't going to, I got up and went to the bathroom and hoped that she'd hear me in there.
当很明显她不打算这样做时，我起身去了洗手间，希望她能听到我在那里的声音。
I turned on the bathroom light and looked in the mirror, flushed the toilet and let the water run for awhile.
我打开浴室的灯，照了照镜子，冲了马桶，让水流了一会儿。
I didn't know what I'd say to her, but I just wanted her to come out and comfort me in some way.
我不知道该对她说什么，但我只是想让她出来以某种方式安慰我。
Maybe give me something to drink or some more pie.
也许给我一些喝的或者更多的馅饼。
Or just talk to me for a while about my parents or school or the wishbone offense for all I cared.
或者只是和我聊一会儿我的父母、学校或者叉骨进攻，不管我关心什么。
I stepped back into the hallway and stood there in my pajamas, listening to the house.
我回到走廊，穿着睡衣站在那里，听着房子里的声音。
The parents were still awake in their room.
父母在房间里还没睡。
A light was on.
一盏灯亮了。
And so I walked to their door and knocked on it, thinking I'd apologize and then ask for a glass of water.
于是我走到他们的门前，敲了敲门，想着我应该道歉，然后要一杯水。
I nudged the door open and there was the mother on her bed.
我轻轻推开门，发现母亲躺在床上。
And behind her the father, red-faced and naked.
她身后是父亲，红着脸，赤身裸体。
I had no idea what I was seeing, just that I shouldn't be.
我不知道我看到了什么，只是我不应该看到。
Her head was bent toward the sheets and she never lifted it.
她的头低向床单，始终没有抬起来。
He looked right at me.
他直视着我。
He was pale and fat and there was a scar that ran vertically from his naval.
他脸色苍白，肥胖，有一道疤痕从他的海军上垂直延伸。
Neither of us said a thing.
我们谁也没说一句话。
I closed the door and hurried back to the boys' bedroom and waited for something to happen, but nothing did.
我关上门，匆匆回到男孩们的卧室，等待着什么事情发生，但什么也没发生。
The next morning the mother would make pancakes and bacon.
第二天早上，妈妈会做煎饼和培根。
And the father would come in from outdoors and tussle my hair and say it was a cold day for a football game.
父亲会从户外进来，揪着我的头发，说天气很冷，不适合踢足球。
Neither of them would hint at what happened in the bedroom.
两人都没有透露卧室里发生的事情。
That was all hours away though.
不过那已经是几个小时之后的事了。
I lay there for a while, listening to the sound of the brothers' breathing on either side of me, simultaneously trying to block out and then bring into sharper focus what I had just seen, to make sense of what it all meant.
我在那里躺了一会儿，听着两侧兄弟的呼吸声，同时试图屏蔽掉我刚刚看到的东西，然后更加清晰地集中注意力，以理解这一切的含义。
I was 11 years old.
那年我11岁。
My brother, who I was closer to than anyone in the world, was turning into someone I no longer knew.
我的兄弟，我比世界上任何人都更亲近的人，正在变成一个我不再认识的人。
I was lying on a floor in the house of complete strangers.
我躺在完全陌生的房子的地板上。
And I'd just opened the door on a large, pale man having sex with his sweet matronly wife, the closest thing to my mother for 300 miles.
我刚刚打开门，看到一个身材高大、脸色苍白的男人正在和他甜蜜的主妇做爱，她是 300 英里内距离我母亲最近的妻子。
You just have no idea what's going on at any moment in any family in any house.
你根本不知道任何家庭、任何房子、任何时刻正在发生什么。
Pretty much everything in life is an absolute frigging mystery.
生活中的几乎所有事情都是一个绝对令人震惊的谜。
There was still a lot of night ahead of me.
等待我的还有很多夜晚。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Joel Lovell, he teaches in the graduate writing program at the University of Pittsburgh and is an editor at GQ Magazine.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell），他在匹兹堡大学教授研究生写作课程，也是《GQ》杂志的编辑。
Hello.
你好。
Seth Lind (INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: Keith, it's Seth.
塞斯·林德（采访者） 塞斯·林德：基思，我是塞斯。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: This is the production manager of our radio show, Seth Lind, calling his uncle Keith about an incident that is actually the subject of this next act, Act Four, an incident that happened to Seth when he should have been sleeping, over 20 years ago.
（主持人）艾拉·格拉斯（IRA GLASS）：这是我们广播节目的制作经理塞斯·林德（Seth Lind），他打电话给他的叔叔基思，讲述了一件事件，这件事实际上是下一幕第四幕的主题，这件事发生在塞斯 20 多年前应该睡觉的时候。
(INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: What I was calling about is I wanted to know if you remembered something, which was there was one night when you were staying over.
（采访者）Seth Lind：我打电话的目的是想知道您是否记得一件事，那是您过夜时的一个晚上。
And I woke up in the middle of the night and you were watching The Shining.
我半夜醒来，你正在看《闪灵》。
The movie?
电影？
Seth Lind (INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: The movie, The Shining.
塞斯·林德（采访者） 塞斯·林德：电影《闪灵》。
Uhuh.
呃。
Seth Lind (INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: Do you remember me watching that with you?
塞斯·林德（采访者） 塞斯·林德：你还记得我和你一起看过这个节目吗？
I do not.
我不知道。
Seth Lind (INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: Really.
塞斯·林德（采访者） 塞斯·林德：真的。
(INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: Yeah.
（采访者） 塞斯·林德：是的。
I watched almost the whole thing with you.
我几乎和你一起看了整件事。
I was six.
我当时六岁。
You were six years old?
你当时六岁？
Seth Lind (INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: I was six.
塞斯·林德（采访者） 塞斯·林德：我当时六岁。
(INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: Do you remember the elevator doors opening and blood rushing out?
（采访者）塞斯·林德：你还记得电梯门打开、血流出来吗？
That I do not.
我不知道。
Seth Lind (INTERVIEWER) SETH LIND: Really.
塞斯·林德（采访者） 塞斯·林德：真的。
Because I remember that was right when I sat down and that happened.
因为我记得就在我坐下的时候，事情就发生了。
And I didn't know what was going on.
我不知道发生了什么事。
And you said, "Do you know what that is?" And I said, "Is it mud?" And you said, "No. It's blood."
你说：“你知道那是什么吗？”我说：“是泥土吗？”你说：“不，是血。”
Honestly I do not recollect.
老实说我不记得了。
Ira Glass (INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: Well, that was totally unsatisfying.
Ira Glass（采访者） IRA GLASS：嗯，这完全令人不满意。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Yeah.
（主题）塞斯·林德：是的。
Ira Glass (INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: I like how he wasn't sorry in the least.
Ira Glass（采访者） IRA GLASS：我喜欢他一点也不后悔。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Yeah.
（主题）塞斯·林德：是的。
Like oh, you want to watch a movie too?
哦，你也想看电影吗？
It's two dudes watching a movie.
这是两个人在看电影。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Seth had a very common childhood experience.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：赛斯有一个非常常见的童年经历。
He saw a film he shouldn't have seen.
他看了一部不该看的电影。
And it had exactly the effect you'd think.
它确实达到了你想象的效果。
After seeing The Shining , he had trouble falling asleep and nightmares every night.
看完《闪灵》后，他睡不着觉，每晚都做噩梦。
And here's where it gets a little extreme, this lasted for most of two years.
这就是有点极端的地方，这种情况持续了两年的大部分时间。
It lasted so long probably because the film was The Shining .
持续这么久可能是因为这部电影是《闪灵》。
A film that is not only truly scary, it starred a six-year-old boy-- the same age as Seth at the time.
这部电影不仅非常恐怖，而且由一个六岁的男孩主演——当时与塞斯同龄。
And if you remember The Shining , the director Stanley Kubrick is constantly shooting from the six year old's perspective.
如果你还记得《闪灵》，导演斯坦利·库布里克总是从六岁孩子的角度进行拍摄。
There are all those amazing shots down from kid-level height, as the little boy speeds down the hallways of this huge hotel on his big wheel.
当小男孩骑着他的大轮子沿着这家巨大酒店的走廊加速行驶时，所有这些令人惊叹的镜头都是从儿童高度下降的。
This made everything in the film seem very, very real to Seth.
这使得电影中的一切对塞斯来说都显得非常非常真实。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: It just made it plausible.
（主题）SETH LIND：这让它变得合理。
I think it was just a really quick decision, like I'm that kid.
我认为这是一个非常快速的决定，就像我就是那个孩子一样。
As simple as that.
就这么简单。
It's like oh, hey look.
就像哦，嘿，看。
I'm on the TV.
我在电视上。
And there's really, really, really terrible things happening to me and my family.
我和我的家人身上发生了非常非常非常可怕的事情。
(SUBJECT) DANNY TORRANCE: Mommy.
（主题）丹尼·托伦斯：妈妈。
I'm scared.
我很害怕。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: And I think that's why it got so far under my skin.
（主题）SETH LIND：我想这就是为什么它让我如此不爽的原因。
(SUBJECT) WENDY TORRANCE: Stop it!
（主题）温迪·托伦斯：别说了！
Stop it!
停下来！
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Over the course of a day, I would-- well, first of all I would feel this extreme pleasure in the morning when I woke up because I had gotten through the night.
（主题）塞斯·林德：在一天的过程中，我会——嗯，首先，当我早上醒来时，我会感到这种极度的快乐，因为我已经熬过了一夜。
And it was like every day was this relief.
就好像每一天都是这样的解脱。
But then as the day went on, I would start to feel this dread because I knew I was going to have to go to sleep.
但随着时间的推移，我开始感到恐惧，因为我知道我必须去睡觉了。
I knew it was going to get dark.
我知道天快黑了。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: It was like you were doomed.
（采访者） IRA GLASS： 就像你注定要失败一样。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Yeah.
（主题）塞斯·林德：是的。
It was like I knew exactly what was going to happen.
就好像我确切地知道会发生什么。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: And just describe, you would be lying there trying to fall asleep?
（采访者） IRA GLASS：请描述一下，您会躺在那里试图入睡吗？
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: I'd lie down and really quickly just one of these images would just pop in my mind.
（主题）SETH LIND：我躺下后很快就会在我的脑海中浮现出其中一张图片。
I mean the blood coming out of the elevator was huge.
我的意思是从电梯里流出来的血是巨大的。
Also there are these twin girls who, in the movie, are sort of spectral characters that only Danny, the little kid, can see.
电影中还有这对双胞胎女孩，她们是只有小孩子丹尼才能看到的幽灵人物。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: And they are sort of shot like Diane Arbus twins, sort of spooky, standing side by side, kind of intoning straight to the camera.
（采访者） IRA GLASS：他们的镜头有点像黛安·阿布斯（Diane Arbus）双胞胎，有点怪异，并排站立，直接对着镜头吟诵。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Exactly.
（主题） 塞斯·林德： 没错。
And they're shot inter-cutting between them speaking and pictures of their chopped up corpses.
他们的谈话和他们被肢解的尸体的照片之间被插切拍摄。
That was the biggest one, the image that would pop into my head the most.
那是最大的一个，也是我脑海中最容易浮现的画面。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: It's interesting you talked to your parents about this on tape a couple weeks ago.
（采访者） IRA GLASS：有趣的是，几周前您在录音中与您的父母谈论了这件事。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Yeah.
（主题）塞斯·林德：是的。
Ira Glass (INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: And it's clear.
Ira Glass（采访者） IRA GLASS： 很清楚。
Like they knew that something was happening, but somehow they don't know how deep it goes.
就像他们知道发生了什么事，但不知何故他们不知道事情有多深。
Hold on.
坚持，稍等。
Let me just push a button here.
让我按一下这里的按钮。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: The protagonist was like a little boy.
（主题）Seth Lind：主角就像一个小男孩。
And I was six.
当时我六岁。
And he must have been around that age or so.
而且他的年纪也一定在这个年纪左右。
(SUBJECT) MRS. LIND: Was there a little girl too?
（主题）夫人。林德：还有一个小女孩吗？
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Well, there were two little girls.
（主题）Seth Lind：嗯，有两个小女孩。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Who were twin sisters, who were murdered.
（主题）塞斯·林德：她们是双胞胎姐妹，被谋杀了。
(SUBJECT) MRS. LIND: Who were murdered.
（主题）夫人。林德：谁被谋杀了。
OK.
好的。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: So they were ghosts.
（主题）Seth Lind：所以他们是鬼魂。
(SUBJECT) MRS. LIND: I guess I need to see it again.
（主题）夫人。林德：我想我需要再看一遍。
(SUBJECT) GRADY TWINS: Come play with us Danny.
（主题）GRADY Twins：丹尼，来和我们一起玩吧。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Come play with us Danny.
（主题）SETH LIND：丹尼，来和我们一起玩吧。
Come play with us forever.
永远和我们一起玩吧。
(SUBJECT) GRADY TWINS: Forever.
（主题）GRADY TWINS：永远。
And ever.
永远。
And ever.
永远。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: I love how your mom's take on this is it's so not deeply sinister, this film.
（采访者） IRA GLASS：我喜欢你妈妈的看法，因为这部电影并不那么险恶。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: There was a little girl.
（主题）Seth Lind：有一个小女孩。
Didn't he have a friend?
他没有朋友吗？
He had a playmate.
他有一个玩伴。
It's not fair for me to expect that someone had to have the same relationship to it as me, feeling like I kind of lived inside of it in a really terrible way.
对我来说，期望有人与我有同样的关系是不公平的，感觉就像我以一种非常可怕的方式生活在其中。
(SUBJECT) MRS. LIND: My most intense memory of the after effects of all that is that I'd wake up in the morning and you'd be sleeping on the floor on the rug beside the bed, all curled up in your quilt.
（主题）夫人。林德：我对这一切的后果最深刻的记忆是，我早上醒来，你睡在床边地毯上的地板上，蜷缩在被子里。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: I remember going to my room during the day.
（主题）SETH LIND：我记得白天去我的房间。
And I would look at our bedroom and sort of prove to myself that it wasn't scary.
我会看看我们的卧室，并向自己证明这并不可怕。
During the day.
白天。
(SUBJECT) MRS. LIND: Oh.
（主题）夫人。林德：哦。
Seth Lind (SUBJECT) SETH LIND: And because I'd say, OK it's light out.
Seth Lind（主题） SETH Lind： 因为我会说，好吧，灯灭了。
This is exactly what it looks like at night.
这正是夜晚的样子。
It's just dark.
天黑了。
There's nothing different about it.
没什么不同。
But I would get this sort of dread as the day went on.
但随着时间的推移，我会感到这种恐惧。
(SUBJECT) MRS. LIND: And I don't remember that you shared any of that at all.
（主题）夫人。林德：我根本不记得你分享过这些。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: I don't think I shared any of it.
（主题）SETH LIND：我认为我没有分享任何内容。
(SUBJECT) MRS. LIND: I mean to everyone else and throughout your growing up, I mean you were to all outward appearances a really joyful, happy child, really loving.
（主题）夫人。林德：我的意思是对其他人以及在你的整个成长过程中，我的意思是，从所有外表来看，你都是一个非常快乐、幸福、非常有爱心的孩子。
And yet it just really shows that children have very involved inner lives that their parents might not know much about.
然而，这确实表明孩子们的内心生活非常丰富，而他们的父母可能不太了解。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Yeah.
（主题）塞斯·林德：是的。
Ira Glass (INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: And why didn't you ask for help?
Ira Glass（采访者） IRA GLASS：那你为什么不寻求帮助呢？
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: I didn't think that anyone could help.
（主题）SETH LIND：我认为没有人可以提供帮助。
The message of the movie is no one's going to help you little kid.
这部电影的信息是没有人会帮助你的小孩。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: The parents in the film just aren't any help to the kid.
（采访者） IRA GLASS：影片中的父母对孩子没有任何帮助。
Like your parents aren't going to help you.
就像你的父母不会帮助你一样。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Right.
（主题） 塞斯·林德： 是的。
The father in the movie is trying to kill you.
电影里的父亲想要杀了你。
The mother wants to save you, but can't.
妈妈想救你，却救不了你。
You have to save yourself.
你必须拯救自己。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: Do you think one of the reasons why you didn't ask for help was because it was-- it's like because it affected your dreams.
（采访者） IRA GLASS：您认为您没有寻求帮助的原因之一是因为它影响了您的梦想吗？
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Yeah.
（主题）塞斯·林德：是的。
Ira Glass (INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: Like in a way it had gotten to a part of you where nobody can go anyway but you.
Ira Glass（采访者） IRA GLASS： 就像在某种程度上，它已经进入了你的一部分，除了你之外没有人可以去。
(SUBJECT) SETH LIND: Right.
（主题） 塞斯·林德： 是的。
There's a certain point where the person who is trying to help you is going to go to sleep.
在某个时刻，试图帮助你的人会去睡觉。
And I would be left alone.
我会独自一人。
Everyone sleeps alone.
每个人都独自睡觉。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Seth Lind.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：塞思·林德。
He's not just our program's production manager, he is also in the comedy troupe, Thank You, Robot.
他不仅是我们节目的制作经理，也是喜剧团《谢谢你，机器人》的成员。
Act Five.
第五幕。
A Little taste of the Big Sleep.
有点大睡眠的味道。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: So I started today's show by talking about how fear of sleeping for me goes hand in hand with the fear of death.
（主持人）IRA GLASS：所以我今天的节目一开始就谈到了对我来说对睡眠的恐惧是如何与对死亡的恐惧密切相关的。
And I used to be surprised that everybody didn't feel that way or regularly have that experience, these moments in bed when they felt so aware that death is really going on happen to them.
我曾经感到惊讶的是，每个人都没有这种感觉或经常有这种经历，在床上的这些时刻，他们感到如此意识到死亡确实发生在他们身上。
And I have found that it is comforting that there are other people who do feel that.
我发现令人欣慰的是，还有其他人也有这种感觉。
Here are some.
这里有一些。
(SUBJECT) JANE FELTES: I will be totally asleep.
（主题）JANE FELTES：我会完全睡着。
And it'll be about 3:00 or 4:00 o'clock in the morning.
大约是凌晨 3:00 或 4:00 点。
I'll just bolt upright.
我会直立起来。
I'm like gasp!
我就像喘气一样！
(SUBJECT) MAN 1: Then it's like a complete instant panic attack where I'm just like clutching the sheets and going oh god, oh god, oh no, oh god, oh no.
（对象） 男人 1：然后，这就像一次完全的瞬间恐慌发作，我就像抓着床单一样，哦天啊，哦天哪，哦不，哦天哪，哦不。
(SUBJECT) JANE FELTES: And I just like kind of hang onto the bed and be like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm just wanting to scream.
（主题）JANE FELTES：我只是喜欢挂在床上，然后说不，不，不，不，不，不，不，不，不。我只想尖叫。
(SUBJECT) MAN 2: Your cornered.
（对象） 男人 2：你已经走投无路了。
You're a trapped animal who's like sweating and waiting for its head to be chopped off.
你是一只被困的动物，满头大汗，等待着被砍掉头。
(SUBJECT) MAN 1: I can feel time whizzing by.
（主题）男 1：我能感觉到时间在呼啸而过。
And I'm trying to hold on to something generally.
我一般都在努力坚持某件事。
So I usually start grabbing the walls or like clinging to the pillow.
所以我通常开始抓住墙壁或者喜欢抱住枕头。
And I'm like this isn't going to go away.
我觉得这不会消失。
I need to hold this.
我需要抓住这个。
I need to hold on to time.
我需要抓紧时间。
I need to stand in this river and just not move.
我需要站在这条河里一动不动。
(SUBJECT) MAN 2: Like it's a kind of very primitive feeling.
（主题）男人2：好像这是一种非常原始的感觉。
You have to just, like, flee from this totally horrible thing that's happening to you.
你必须逃离发生在你身上的这件完全可怕的事情。
But there is nowhere you can flee.
但你无处可逃。
And understanding at the same time that what you're fleeing and trying to run away from is the complete cessation of you.
同时要明白，你正在逃避和试图逃避的是你的完全停止。
(SUBJECT) MAN 1: Like normally I think you go through the day and you don't really think you're going to die.
（对象）男 1：就像平常一样，我认为你度过了这一天，并且你并不真的认为你会死。
Or it seems comforting.
或者看起来很令人欣慰。
Like I'm in traffic this morning, I think, oh I might die someday.
就像我今天早上堵车一样，我想，哦，我有一天可能会死。
I'm like oh, what a relief.
我想哦，真是一种解脱。
I don't have to do this anymore.
我不必再这样做了。
But there's something about being half asleep specifically that causes the realization to actually take effect.
但半睡半醒的状态会导致这种认识真正生效。
(SUBJECT) JANE FELTES: When this wakes me up in the middle of the night it's because I'm right.
（主题）JANE FELTES：当这件事在半夜把我吵醒时，那是因为我是对的。
Like it's going to happen.
就像它即将发生一样。
That's why.
这就是原因。
Because that's reality.
因为那是现实。
And just for some reason I can see it.
只是出于某种原因我能看到它。
(SUBJECT) MAN 2: It's not irrational fear.
（对象） 男人 2：这不是非理性的恐惧。
It's like you understand that you're mortal.
就好像你明白自己终有一死。
Your life is going to be over at some point.
你的生命将在某个时刻结束。
You're fighting like the worst enemy in the world as you lie there in bed, rolling around in your sheet covers-- in your blankets.
当你躺在床上，在床单和毯子里打滚时，你就像世界上最可怕的敌人一样战斗。
And you're rolling around there, trying to fight death.
你在那里打滚，试图与死亡作斗争。
And there's no way you can win.
而且你没有办法获胜。
(SUBJECT) JANE FELTES: I cry.
（主题）简·菲尔特斯：我哭了。
And I just get really sad.
我真的很伤心。
And I just think.
我只是想。
I try to breath.
我试着呼吸。
I breath really deeply.
我深深地呼吸。
And I just think like there's nothing I can do.
我只是觉得我无能为力。
Like the terror is overyaken by just sadness.
就像恐惧被悲伤淹没了。
I just want it to not be true.
我只是希望这不是真的。
(HOST) IRA GLASS: Jane Feltes, Lennard Davis, and DJ [?
（主持人）IRA GLASS：Jane Feltes、Lennard Davis 和 DJ [？
Ectencamp.
埃克滕坎普。
?]
？]
I know that we almost never have poems on our show.
我知道我们的节目中几乎从来没有诗歌。
And I already read one poem today, so whatever.
我今天已经读了一首诗，所以无论如何。
But there's a Philip Larkin poem that is exactly about this subject that we're talking about it.
但菲利普·拉金有一首诗正是关于我们正在谈论的这个主题。
It is in his Collected Poems , which is published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux called "Aubade." And it begins and it's nighttime.
这是他的诗集，由法拉尔、斯特劳斯和吉鲁出版，名为“Aubade”。一切开始了，现在是晚上。
And he writes at nighttime, you can see what's always been there, unresting death holding your now.
他在夜间写道，你可以看到一直存在的东西，不安的死亡抓住了你的现在。
And then I'm just going to pick up in the middle of this, where he describes what he sees.
然后我会继续讲下去，他描述了他所看到的。
--the total emptiness forever, the sure extinction that we travel to and shall be lost in always.
——永远的彻底空虚，我们旅行到的必然的灭绝，并且永远会迷失其中。
Not to be here, not to be anywhere, and soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true.
不在这里，不去任何地方，而且很快；没有什么比这更可怕，也没有什么更真实了。
This is a special way of being afraid no trick dispels.
这是一种特殊的方式，害怕没有任何技巧可以消除。
Religion used to try, that vast moth-eaten musical brocade created to pretend we never die, and specious stuff that says no rational being can fear a thing it will not feel, not seeing that this is what we fear-- no sight, no sound, no touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with, nothing to love or link with, the anesthetic from which none come round.
宗教曾经尝试过，那巨大的被虫蛀的音乐锦缎创造出来假装我们永远不会死，还有一些似是而非的东西，说任何理性的存在都不会害怕它感觉不到的东西，却没有看到这就是我们所害怕的——没有视觉，没有声音，没有触觉，没有味道或气味，没有什么可以思考，没有什么可以爱或联系，没有人可以从中苏醒。
And so it stays just on the edge of vision, a small unfocused blur, a standing chill that slows each impulse down to indecision.
所以它就停留在视野的边缘，一个没有聚焦的小模糊，一种持续的寒意，使每一次冲动都减慢为犹豫不决。
Most things may never happen: this one will, and realization of it rages out in furnace-fear when we are caught without people or drink.
大多数事情可能永远不会发生：这件事会发生，当我们发现没有人或没有饮料时，我们会在炉火恐惧中意识到这一点。
Courage is no good: It means not scaring others.
勇气是不好的：它意味着不吓到别人。
Being brave lets no one off the grave.
勇敢的人不会让任何人脱离坟墓。
Death is no different whined at than withstood.
抱怨死亡和忍受死亡没有什么不同。
Slowly light strengthens, and the room takes shape.
光线慢慢增强，房间初具规模。
It stands plain as a wardrobe, what we know, have always known, know that we can't escape, yet can't accept.
它平淡得像一个衣柜，我们所知道的，一直都知道的，知道我们无法逃避，却又无法接受。
One side will have to go.
一侧必须离开。
Meanwhile telephones crouch, getting ready to ring in locked-up offices, and all the uncaring intricate rented world begins to rouse.
与此同时，电话蹲下，准备在上锁的办公室里响起，所有冷漠而错综复杂的出租世界开始苏醒。
The sky is white as clay, with no sun.
天空像泥土一样洁白，没有阳光。
Work has to be done.
工作必须完成。
Postmen like doctors go from house to house.
邮递员就像医生一样挨家挨户地走访。
Well, our show was produced today by Nancy Updike and myself with Alex Blumberg, Jane Feltis, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, and Alissa Shipp.
好吧，我们今天的节目由南希·厄普代克和我本人以及亚历克斯·布伦伯格、简·费尔蒂斯、丽莎·波拉克、罗宾·塞米恩和艾丽莎·希普共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help Seth Lind and PJ Vogt.
制作人员为 Seth Lind 和 PJ Vogt。
Music help from Jessica Hopper.
杰西卡·霍珀的音乐帮助。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss Mr. Torey Malatia, who explains why he shows up for work sometimes with no shirt, torn pants, no shoes, this way: I'm the Hulk.
我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的节目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他解释了为什么他有时不穿衬衫、破裤子、不穿鞋上班，这样说：我是绿巨人。
I'm the Hulk.
我是浩克。
I'm the Hulk.
我是浩克。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。