358: Social Engineering - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #358 | June 27, 2008 358: Social Engineering Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 358 集 | 2008 年 6 月 27 日 358：社会工程 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Tim wasn't always perfect at his job.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 蒂姆的工作并不总是完美。
A couple years ago, not long after he got the job, he heard about these two gang members who had gotten into a scuffle at a club.
几年前，他刚上任不久，就听说这两个帮派成员在俱乐部里打架。
It began when one of them jumped in front of the other in a line of people who were going to have their pictures taken.
事情开始于一排准备拍照的人中，其中一个人跳到另一个人的前面。
And they got into a big fight.
他们发生了一场大战。
And one of the guys got a black eye and was kind of messed up.
其中一个人的眼睛被打肿了，而且有点混乱。
And he was looking for the other guy to shoot him.
他正在寻找另一个人来射杀他。
Which is how Tim got involved.
这就是蒂姆参与其中的方式。
Tim, I have to say, has one of the greatest job titles ever.
我不得不说，蒂姆拥有有史以来最伟大的职位之一。
In a world where job titles often obscure what the hell a person does for a living, his is remarkably direct.
在一个工作头衔经常掩盖一个人到底靠什么谋生的世界里，他的行为却非常直接。
He's an interrupter.
他是一个干扰者。
An interrupter means to interrupt violence, to intervene, or to mediate potential violent conflict.
中断者意味着中断暴力、干预或调解潜在的暴力冲突。
Years ago, Tim had been a gang member.
多年前，蒂姆曾是一名帮派成员。
He'd risen through the ranks, until finally he got to call the shots for his area on the West Side of Chicago.
他的地位不断提升，直到最后他在芝加哥西区的地区发号施令。
He became an interrupter when he got out of prison a few years back.
几年前出狱后，他成为一名干扰者。
So he gets these two guys together.
所以他把这两个人凑到了一起。
They both knew him from the streets.
他们都是在街上认识他的。
They both respected him.
他们都很尊重他。
But he was so inexperienced at being an interrupter that he held the meeting outside on a corner.
但他在打断人方面缺乏经验，所以他在外面的一个角落里举行了会议。
And each guy brought friends.
每个人都带来了朋友。
What I messed up was, I didn't have control of the environment.
我搞砸的是，我无法控制环境。
I mean, they was instigating.
我的意思是，他们在煽动。
Man, you let him hit you in your eye?
伙计，你让他打你的眼睛吗？
You should do this to him.
你应该这样对他。
I lost control of the mediation.
我失去了对调解的控制。
I was OK as long as I had them two there, right?
只要有他们两个在，我就没事了，对吧？
But when everybody else started putting input in, and everybody starts saying, he ain't going to do nothing to me.
但当其他人开始提出意见时，每个人都开始说，他不会对我做什么。
And they start up in guns, I was the only one there without a gun.
他们一开始就拿着枪，我是那里唯一一个没有枪的人。
And I said, man, I don't have control.
我说，伙计，我无法控制。
They talking, and they was just about to pull it.
他们一边说话，一边正要拉它。
Man, you should shoot him, man.
伙计，你应该开枪打死他，伙计。
And I was like, man, nah, don't shoot him.
我当时想，伙计，不，别开枪打他。
Man, don't shoot him.
伙计，别开枪打他。
Please don't shoot that gun.
请不要开那把枪。
And they were like, man, I ain't scared of you.
他们说，伙计，我不怕你。
I got a gun.
我有枪。
You ain't the only one got no gun.
你不是唯一一个没有枪的人。
And I was like, I ain't got nothin'.
我当时想，我什么都没有。
And so I was like, hey listen.
所以我想，嘿听着。
Let's just get in our cars.
让我们上车吧。
Get in your car, get in your car.
上你的车，上你的车。
Man, get in your car.
伙计，上你的车吧。
Man, the police are going to come.
伙计，警察要来了。
Get in your car.
上你的车。
They finally got in their cars, and they pulled off.
他们终于上了车，出发了。
I said, this mediation ain't going right.
我说，这个调解不太顺利。
And so about two days later, I called these same two individuals.
大约两天后，我给这两个人打电话。
But this time, I had them meet me at the office, individually, one-on-one.
但这一次，我让他们在办公室单独、一对一地与我见面。
And I explained to them, man, listen, man.
我向他们解释说，伙计，听着，伙计。
You don't need to make these decisions that you're making, man.
你不需要做出这些你正在做的决定，伙计。
You're doing well out here in the streets.
你在街上过得很好。
You're not starving.
你没有饿死。
But if you make these decisions that you're going to make, you're going to bring a lot of heat on yourself.
但如果你做出了这些决定，你就会给自己带来很大的压力。
You don't want to hurt dude, he don't want to hurt you.
你不想伤害他，他也不想伤害你。
Y'all was both drunk that night at that party.
那天晚上的聚会上你们都喝醉了。
Ain't nobody dead.
没人死吧
You got a black eye.
你眼睛都黑了
People get black eyes when they get into fights.
人一打架就会眼圈发黑。
But you still can salvage this, man.
但你仍然可以挽救这个，伙计。
And he listened.
他听了。
He had cooled off for a while.
他的心情一时间冷静了下来。
A couple of days had passed, he cooled off.
几天过去了，他的心凉了。
And I had already talked to the other guy.
我已经和另一个人谈过了。
And he said, man, I don't got no problem talking to him.
他说，伙计，我和他说话没有任何问题。
He the one that want to act like he want to-- we had to fight last night.
他是那个想要表现得像他想要的那样的人——我们昨晚不得不打架。
He lost.
他输了。
What he want to do?
他想做什么？
He want to kill me now.
他现在想杀了我。
And I ain't scared of him.
而且我不怕他。
I mean, if he trying to kill me, I'm trying to kill him.
我的意思是，如果他想杀我，我也会想杀他。
So we got to the table, and we talked.
于是我们就坐到了桌子旁，开始交谈。
And we squashed it.
我们把它压扁了。
Because they really both didn't want to hurt each other.
因为他们俩真的都不想伤害对方。
They knew each other from school and everything, but their pride was in the way.
他们在学校里就认识了，但他们的骄傲却阻碍了他们。
Their reputation was in the way.
他们的声誉受到了阻碍。
What do you think they go back and tell their friends about why the fight's over?
你认为他们回去告诉他们的朋友战斗结束的原因是什么？
What do they say?
他们怎么说？
That's what I mean about keep their reputation and their face value.
这就是我所说的保持他们的声誉和面值的意思。
They go back and say, man, I let it go, because Tim, man, you know?
他们回过头来说，伙计，我放手了，因为蒂姆，伙计，你知道吗？
You know Tim stand for peace now, man.
你知道蒂姆现在主张和平，伙计。
So he caught up with me, man.
所以他追上了我，伙计。
So I told him I'd do it for him.
所以我告诉他我会为他做这件事。
I gave dude a pass.
我给了老兄一张通行证。
And the other dude will tell his crew, I gave dude a pass for Tim, man.
另一个家伙会告诉他的船员，我给了那个家伙蒂姆的通行证，伙计。
And so that's what they do.
这就是他们所做的。
It's a favor to you.
这是对你的一个恩惠。
Tim White Yeah.
蒂姆·怀特 是的。
They just give me some favors some time.
他们只是有时给我一些好处。
And I stand on what I say.
我坚持我所说的。
I'm not here to arrest you.
我不是来逮捕你的。
I'm not here to talk about nothing.
我来这里不是为了无事可谈。
We're not there to put them in jail for whatever they're doing.
我们不会因为他们所做的事情而将他们关进监狱。
We don't want to know nothing about your criminal activities, how you get money, how you making your money.
我们不想知道你的犯罪活动、你如何获取金钱、你如何赚钱。
Our component is totally to stop you from shooting each other.
我们的目的是完全阻止你们互相射击。
I met Tim through one of the contributors to our radio show, Alex Kotlowitz.
我通过我们广播节目的撰稿人之一亚历克斯·科特洛维茨认识了蒂姆。
He'd written about Tim and some other interrupters for The New York Times Magazine .
他为《纽约时报》杂志撰写了有关蒂姆和其他一些干扰者的文章。
Tim works for a group called CeaseFire, which this year has stepped in to mediate 78 potential shootings in Chicago.
蒂姆为一个名为“停火”的组织工作，该组织今年已介入调解芝加哥可能发生的 78 起枪击事件。
Tim's in his 40s.
蒂姆 40 多岁。
When he was in prison, he found God.
当他在监狱里时，他找到了上帝。
When we came out, he was ordained as a minister, like his dad, actually, who has a church on the West Side.
当我们出来时，他被任命为牧师，就像他父亲一样，实际上，他父亲在西区有一座教堂。
And though Tim loves the work he does now, he understands how hard it is for the guys he talks to not to take revenge.
尽管蒂姆热爱他现在所做的工作，但他理解与他交谈的人不报复是多么困难。
He's been tested too.
他也经受过考验。
Not long ago, he was in his car.
不久前，他在自己的车里。
He'd just dropped his son off.
他刚刚送儿子下车。
I was riding down Pulaski, and I was behind this young man and a woman in a car.
我沿着普拉斯基骑行，车里我跟在这个年轻人和一个女人后面。
He had to be doing like 20 miles an hour on a busy street.
在繁忙的街道上，他必须以每小时 20 英里的速度行驶。
And he was swerving, just like listening to his music, bouncing up and down.
他在转弯，就像在听他的音乐一样，上下弹跳。
I was kind of tired, and I wanted to get past him.
我有点累了，我想超越他。
And he wouldn't let me pass.
而且他不让我过去。
Purposely, he wouldn't let me pass.
他故意不让我过去。
He was like cutting you off when you try to go around?
当你试图四处走动时，他就像打断你一样？
Yeah.
是的。
So I caught myself going try to get past him, and he hit his brakes real hard and made me almost run into the back of his car.
所以我发现自己正试图超越他，他猛踩刹车，让我差点撞到他的车后座。
And when he jumped out, he started cussing me.
当他跳出来时，他开始咒骂我。
MF, get away from my-- don't be riding so close to my car.
MF，离我的——别骑得离我的车那么近。
I'll beat your woo, woo, woo.
我会打败你的呜呜呜。
And I said, hey man, I just want to get past.
我说，嘿伙计，我只是想过去。
He said, F you.
他说，F你。
Say something else and I'll slap you.
你再说点别的，我就扇你一巴掌。
And I was like, slap who?
我当时就想，打谁？
And he said, I'll slap you.
他还说，我就打你。
Say something else.
说点别的吧。
And I wanted to whoop him.
我想对他大喊大叫。
I believe in my heart I could whoop this guy.
我内心相信我可以为这个家伙欢呼。
I could take him.
我可以带他去。
And I looked at him, I said, man, it's not that serious, man.
我看着他，我说，伙计，事情没那么严重，伙计。
We ain't got to go there.
我们不必去那里。
And he said, man, shut up.
他说，伙计，闭嘴。
I said, shut up?
我说，闭嘴吧？
I said, all right, man.
我说，好吧，伙计。
I just looked at him, and he looked at me.
我只是看着他，他也看着我。
And he seen that he had punked me, so he walked away.
他看到他打了我，所以他走开了。
And then he jumped in the car, and he called me a B.
然后他就跳进车里，并称我为B。
And then he got in his car and pulled off.
然后他钻进车里开走了。
And I stayed there and just sit for a minute.
我就呆在那里坐了一分钟。
And tears started welling up in my eyes, and I was thinking about going on the block and getting a couple of guys.
我的眼里开始涌出泪水，我正在考虑去街区找几个人。
I know the car and stuff.
我知道车什么的。
I wanted to go and ride back around his neighborhood and see could I find him.
我想骑车绕着他的邻居转一圈，看看能找到他。
And I was riding that way, and I'm riding that way.
我就那样骑，我就那样骑。
I said, man, I should kill this guy.
我说，伙计，我应该杀了这个人。
He just disrespected me like that.
他就是这样不尊重我。
Nobody never disrespected me like that.
从来没有人这样不尊重过我。
And then I pulled over, started to cry a little bit.
然后我把车停在路边，开始哭了一点。
And I said, nah, I'm going home.
我说，不，我要回家了。
Tim and the other interrupters are trying to do a kind of social engineering on the West Side, trying to change people's behavior on a mass scale, alter deeply ingrained social rules, make things better for everybody.
蒂姆和其他干扰者正试图在西区进行一种社会工程，试图大规模改变人们的行为，改变根深蒂固的社会规则，让每个人的生活变得更好。
And challenging as that is, it can be even more challenging to do that kind of retooling on yourself.
尽管这很具有挑战性，但对自己进行这种重组可能更具挑战性。
It's hard to do a mediation on yourself.
很难对自己进行调解。
That's harder than doing a mediation for someone else.
这比为别人进行调解更难。
Because I was on the outside, I didn't have the emotions.
因为我在外面，所以没有任何情绪。
When I'm doing it with other people, when they be mad.
当我和其他人一起做的时候，当他们生气的时候。
I had emotions that flared up in my throat.
我的情绪在喉咙里爆发。
It was all up over me, it was everywhere.
它笼罩着我，它无处不在。
And I didn't know how to deal with it.
我不知道如何应对。
And that brings us to today's program.
这就是我们今天的节目。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our show, we have several stories of people who are trying to social engineer their own lives.
今天在我们的节目中，我们有几个关于人们试图对自己的生活进行社会工程的故事。
Act One, we have guys who remake their lives in this way that I think very few of us would ever dare.
第一幕，我们有些人以这种方式重塑他们的生活，我认为我们很少有人敢这么做。
In Act Two, a parent tries to teach a kid a simple lesson, but does it in a way that he regrets for decades later.
在第二幕中，一位父母试图给孩子上一堂简单的课，但他的做法却让他几十年后都后悔不已。
In Act Three, a mom understands that sticks and stones will, in fact, break your bones, but is not so clear if names will ever hurt her kid.
在第三幕中，一位妈妈知道棍棒和石头实际上会打断你的骨头，但不太清楚这些名字是否会伤害她的孩子。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Choosers, Not Beggars.
第一幕，选择者，而不是乞丐。
Gregory Deloatch and Daniel Canada met in a bookstore, and they've had the kind of long-standing friendship where, at the center of things for the last 20 years, they've had a shared goal: to write something great.
格雷戈里·德洛奇 (Gregory Deloatch) 和丹尼尔·卡纳达 (Daniel Canada) 在一家书店相识，他们之间建立了长期的友谊，在过去 20 年里，他们有一个共同的目标：写出伟大的作品。
But all the normal stuff got in the way of that goal, marriages, jobs.
但所有正常的事情都阻碍了这个目标，比如婚姻、工作。
And the dream to write something great became a lower priority, something more like a hobby.
写出伟大作品的梦想变得不那么重要，更像是一种爱好。
When Gregory was in his 20s, he write a sci-fi novel.
格雷戈里 20 多岁时，写了一本科幻小说。
And in their 30s, Gregory and Daniel co-wrote a big historical novel set in ancient Babylon and a second novel together called The Noise .
三十多岁的时候，格雷戈里和丹尼尔共同写了一部以古巴比伦为背景的大型历史小说，以及第二部小说《噪音》。
None of these books were published.
这些书都没有出版。
And it wasn't until their 40s that things really started to change, and they got serious about their writing.
直到四十多岁，事情才真正开始发生变化，他们开始认真对待自己的写作。
And they did this by re-engineering their lives in a pretty unusual way.
他们通过以一种非常不寻常的方式重新设计自己的生活来做到这一点。
Lu Olkowski explains.
卢·奥尔科夫斯基解释道。
It wasn't that Gregory and Daniel decided to become homeless so they'd finally get enough free time to write.
格雷戈里和丹尼尔决定无家可归并不是为了让他们终于有足够的空闲时间来写作。
They slid into homelessness gradually.
他们逐渐陷入无家可归的境地。
Gregory was making good money as a computer tech for a Wall Street firm, but he was drinking way too much, and finally his wife walked out.
格雷戈里在一家华尔街公司担任计算机技术人员，赚了很多钱，但他酗酒太多，最后他的妻子离开了。
He found himself living alone in an apartment in New Jersey.
他发现自己独自一人住在新泽西州的一套公寓里。
His best friend, Daniel, meanwhile, was between jobs and divorced.
与此同时，他最好的朋友丹尼尔正在工作中并且离婚了。
So Gregory offered his couch to Daniel, and for a long while, things were all right.
于是格雷戈里把他的沙发让给了丹尼尔，很长一段时间，一切都很好。
Daniel would write some during the day.
丹尼尔会在白天写一些。
Gregory worked nights, until Gregory lost his job.
格雷戈里晚上工作，直到格雷戈里失业。
And he'd never been unemployed before, not really, not like Daniel.
而且他以前从未失业过，不是真的，不像丹尼尔那样。
He began missing rent payments and couldn't see a way to catch up, and he was freaking out.
他开始拖欠房租，而且找不到补足的方法，他吓坏了。
And at this point, he could have gotten another job, or gone to his family for money.
此时，他本可以去找另一份工作，或者向家人要钱。
But he did nothing.
但他什么也没做。
And then it was the day before they were going to get evicted.
然后就到了他们要被驱逐的前一天。
Here's Gregory.
这是格雷戈里。
I'm like, dude, we're about to hit the street.
我想，伙计，我们就要上街了。
And mister cool as a cucumber here was just relaxed.
冷静如黄瓜的先生在这里只是放松。
He wasn't stressed about anything.
他对任何事情都没有压力。
Daniel felt this way because he'd lived on the streets before.
丹尼尔有这样的感觉是因为他以前曾流落街头。
And then he said, that's survivable.
然后他说，那是可以生存的。
For the first time, it didn't really key in, because you don't think you can survive the streets.
这是第一次，它并没有真正发挥作用，因为你认为自己无法在街道上生存。
When someone says, being homeless, I don't think you can do it.
当有人说，无家可归时，我认为你做不到。
I'm like saying to him, where do you use the bathroom?
我就像对他说，你在哪里上厕所？
I remember that.
我记得。
Gregory Deloatch Where do you take a shower?
Gregory Deloatch 你在哪里洗澡？
How do you get clean?
你如何变得干净？
Where do you get new clothes?
新衣服去哪里买？
I had a million questions, and he carefully answered every last one of them.
我有一百万个问题，他仔细地回答了每一个问题。
This is what you do.
这就是你要做的。
This is what you'll do.
这就是你要做的。
This is what you'll do.
这就是你要做的。
So that when the last day came and just before the county sheriffs came to lock me out, we left.
所以当最后一天到来时，就在县治安官来把我锁在外面之前，我们离开了。
I grabbed what clothes I had on my back and a bag, and we headed to the Port Authority.
我抓起身上的衣服和一个包，然后前往港务局。
Up until he lost his apartment, the Port Authority bus station in New York was just a transfer station on Gregory's route to and from work.
在他失去公寓之前，纽约港务局公交车站只是格雷戈里上下班途中的一个中转站。
But on that night in May 2006, it became shelter.
但2006年5月的那个晚上，它变成了避难所。
A few nights sleeping in the Port Authority turned into weeks.
在港务局睡几个晚上变成了几个星期。
But somehow, because they had each other, being homeless in New York City didn't seem as daunting as it might have.
但不知何故，因为他们有彼此，在纽约无家可归似乎并不像想象中那么令人畏惧。
It was kind of an adventure.
这是一种冒险。
Gregory and Daniel treated it like a game, spending the last of Gregory's money on going to the movies and bars.
格雷戈里和丹尼尔把它当作一场游戏，把格雷戈里最后的钱花在了去看电影和酒吧上。
They wanted to shed the baggage and stress of their old lives, no full-time jobs, no wives, no hassle.
他们想摆脱旧生活的包袱和压力，没有全职工作，没有妻子，没有麻烦。
They wanted to live a little, reevaluate things.
他们想要生活一点，重新评估事物。
And it was during this time that Gregory and Daniel forged a plan, an experiment.
正是在这段时间里，格雷戈里和丹尼尔制定了一个计划，一个实验。
They'd use homelessness to finally get serious about their writing.
他们利用无家可归的机会最终认真对待他们的写作。
Here's Daniel.
这是丹尼尔。
We wanted to eliminate the distraction and maximize the time that we spend in pursuing this.
我们希望消除干扰，并最大限度地利用我们花在追求这一目标上的时间。
We are devoting all our energy to it.
我们正在为此投入全部精力。
This is our life.
这就是我们的生活。
This is our career.
这是我们的事业。
This is our nine-to-five.
这是我们的朝九晚五。
Our particular talent is poetry, open mic, spoken word.
我们的特殊才能是诗歌、开放式麦克风、口语。
And so Gregory and Daniel, without jobs, without homes, got to work.
于是格雷戈里和丹尼尔在没有工作、没有住房的情况下开始工作。
They had a routine.
他们有一个惯例。
If they were writing something together, like their novel or screenplay, they'd work at the New York Public Library.
如果他们一起写一些东西，比如小说或剧本，他们就会在纽约公共图书馆工作。
Otherwise, they'd split up during the day, but meet up every morning for breakfast and every night before bed, just to check in on one another.
否则，他们会在白天分开，但每天早上一起吃早餐，每天晚上睡觉前见面，只是为了互相了解情况。
They'd stay on each other to be productive.
他们会互相依靠以提高生产力。
Daniel is more likely to wander the city, hoping to get an idea for a poem.
丹尼尔更有可能在城市里闲逛，希望得到一首诗的灵感。
Gregory has a laptop, so he spends most days at a Midtown Starbucks, where uses free wifi to write his blog.
格雷戈里有一台笔记本电脑，因此他大部分时间都在市中心的星巴克度过，那里使用免费 wifi 来撰写博客。
And a month after they went on the streets, they hit the poetry circuit.
他们走上街头一个月后，他们开始了诗歌巡回演出。
Two months in, their schedule was packed enough to include three different readings a week.
两个月后，他们的日程安排得满满当当，每周包括三种不同的读物。
Saturday's at Stark on West 43rd Street, Sundays at Smith's Bar in Times Square or at ABC No Rio on the Lower East Side, Mondays downtown at the Nightingale.
周六在西 43 街的 Stark，周日在时代广场的 Smith's Bar 或下东区的 ABC No Rio，周一在市中心的 Nightingale。
On stage, Gregory became Hobo Bob, Daniel was Obsidian.
在舞台上，格雷戈里变成了流浪汉鲍勃，丹尼尔变成了黑曜石。
They were the homeless poets.
他们是无家可归的诗人。
That was their schtick on the poetry circuit.
这就是他们在诗歌巡回演出中的伎俩。
Next up, please welcome our wonderful homeless poet, Hobo Bob.
接下来，请欢迎我们出色的无家可归诗人 Hobo Bob。
[APPLAUSE] Lu Olkowski And this is where I first encountered them, over a year ago in 2007.
[掌声] Lu Olkowski 这是我第一次见到他们的地方，那是一年多前的 2007 年。
It was Obsidian who knew the places they could perform, and Obsidian does most of the MCing when they're on stage together.
黑曜石知道他们可以表演的地方，当他们一起登台时，黑曜石承担了大部分的MC工作。
He's the outgoing one, the one who works the room at intermission.
他是个性格外向的人，在中场休息时在房间里工作。
Gregory's more thoughtful, introspective.
格雷戈里更加深思熟虑、内省。
And at the beginning it was Obsidian, you know, Daniel, who showed Gregory how to live on the street, how to keep warm on a cool night by stuffing their clothes with crumpled up newspaper, where there was a storefront in Midtown with planters that hid them from view, so they could sleep without anyone bugging them.
一开始，是黑曜石，你知道，丹尼尔，向格雷戈里展示了如何在街上生活，如何在寒冷的夜晚通过在衣服里塞满皱巴巴的报纸来取暖，中城有一家店面，里面有花盆，可以将他们隐藏起来，这样他们就可以睡觉而不会有人打扰他们。
Also how to stock up on free necessities.
以及如何储备免费必需品。
Here's Daniel.
这是丹尼尔。
Go into McDonald's, and get you a handful of them.
走进麦当劳，买一把。
And put them in your bag or your pocket when you need napkins.
当您需要餐巾时，请将它们放入包或口袋中。
They're amazing.
他们太棒了。
Daniel Canada They do everything.
丹尼尔加拿大 他们什么都做。
They do everything.
他们做一切事情。
Daniel Canada You'll find so many uses of just a napkin.
Daniel Canada 您会发现一张餐巾纸有很多用途。
If you use a public toilet and can't shut the door you just-- you know some of those stalls, they kind of like swing like swinging doors.
如果你使用公共厕所并且无法关上门，你就会知道其中一些隔间，它们有点像旋转门一样摆动。
The locks are broken, so you need to use it, and the door keeps running open.
锁坏了，所以你需要使用它，但门一直开着。
So you take a couple of napkins, and you just wedge them right in the door.
所以你拿几张餐巾纸，然后把它们塞在门上。
Daniel also taught Gregory the importance of socks.
丹尼尔还教格雷戈里袜子的重要性。
Socks.
袜子。
Your feet go first.
你的脚先走。
When you're in the street, you keep your feet in your shoe all the time.
当你在街上时，你总是把脚放在鞋里。
It doesn't get any air.
它没有任何空气。
And once it smells like hell like that, it contaminates your shoe.
一旦闻起来像地狱一样，它就会污染你的鞋子。
Now your shoe stinks.
现在你的鞋子很臭。
You could hold the bank up with them.
你可以和他们一起撑住银行。
You notice that if you smell an odor around a homeless person, the odor you're smelling is the feet.
您注意到，如果您闻到无家可归者周围的气味，您闻到的气味就是脚的气味。
So you always got to constantly make sure you have a pair of socks on your feet, a pair in the bag.
因此，您必须始终确保脚上有一双袜子，包里有一双。
They get fresh socks at the Bowery Mission, which also provides new clothes and showers for the homeless.
他们在包厘街教会 (Bowery Mission) 获得了新袜子，该教会还为无家可归者提供新衣服和淋浴设施。
Every Tuesday, Gregory and Daniel go there, throw away the old clothes they've been wearing for a week, and each gets a whole new outfit.
每个星期二，格雷戈里和丹尼尔都会去那里，扔掉他们穿了一个星期的旧衣服，每人都会得到一套全新的衣服。
It matters to them that they look good.
对他们来说，自己看起来不错很重要。
They're clean-shaven with proper haircuts, no grime under their nails, dark chinos, and button-down shirts.
他们胡子刮得干干净净，发型得体，指甲下没有污垢，穿着深色斜纹棉布裤和系扣衬衫。
In other words, they pass.
换句话说，他们通过了。
You wouldn't know they were homeless unless they told you.
除非他们告诉你，否则你不会知道他们无家可归。
Which is not true for a lot of the homeless people they see around town, guys they've privately nicknamed Adolph, Scurvy, Coat, Buzzard, Frank 'n Beans, the Marlboro Man.
对于他们在镇上看到的许多无家可归的人来说，情况并非如此，他们私下里给这些人起了个绰号：阿道夫、坏血病、大衣、秃鹰、弗兰克豆子、万宝路人。
They classify the bags homeless people carry from large to small into class A, B, C, or D Starfleet.
他们将无家可归者携带的行李从大到小分为A、B、C或D级星际舰队。
Gregory has a solid class D Star Cruiser, a sensible black wheelie suitcase with a matching computer bag.
格雷戈里有一辆坚固的 D 级星际巡洋舰、一个实用的黑色带轮离地行李箱和一个相配的电脑包。
The longer you're on the street, the bigger your starship tends to get, and the class A Star Destroyer is one of those giant canvas postal carts, overflowing with stuff, with more stuff tied to the sides and on poles.
你在街上待的时间越长，你的星际飞船就会变得越大，而 A 级歼星舰就是那种巨大的帆布邮政车，里面装满了东西，更多的东西绑在侧面和杆子上。
Well, there's three types of homeless people.
嗯，无家可归者分为三种类型。
There's homeless people who are just homeless, and they're trying to make the best they can.
有些无家可归的人只是无家可归，但他们正在尽力做到最好。
And some of them, you can't even tell they're homelessness unless you follow them around.
其中一些人，除非你跟着他们，否则你甚至看不出他们是无家可归的人。
They change their clothes.
他们换衣服。
They upkeep themselves.
他们维护自己。
You see them in the library reading a book or something.
你看到他们在图书馆看书什么的。
That's one.
这是一个。
That's us.
那就是我们。
Then there's a Skeksis, where they'll be very dirty.
然后是 Skeksis，那里会很脏。
Dressed in all kinds of clothes, sometimes many layers and layers of clothes.
穿着各种各样的衣服，有时还穿很多层、多层的衣服。
They'll wear heavy coats in the wintertime-- I'm sorry, in the summertime.
他们在冬天会穿厚外套——对不起，在夏天。
You don't want to smell them when they open up those coats.
当他们打开这些外套时，你不想闻到它们的味道。
And they even talk differently.
他们甚至说话也不同。
Their language has devolved.
他们的语言已经退化。
They don't speak in words anymore.
他们不再用言语说话。
They speak more in sounds, more like [SCREECHING SOUNDS].
他们更多地用声音说话，更像是[尖叫声]。
But that's Skeksis.
但这就是斯克西斯。
He's talking Skeksis.
他说的是斯克西斯。
He's on his way.
他正在路上。
Gregory Deloatch He's talking Skeksis.
格雷戈里·德洛奇（Gregory Deloatch） 他说的是 Skeksis。
And then there's the last one, recently classified.
然后是最后一个，最近被分类。
Skelsis.
斯凯尔西斯。
Skelsi is the living dead.
斯凯尔西是活死人。
It's the undead.
这是不死族。
It's a person who, they're gone, mentally gone.
这是一个人，他们消失了，精神上消失了。
And you'll just see them like sitting on the floor with their feet out maybe, and they're just really filthy.
你可能会看到他们坐在地板上，脚伸出来，而且他们真的很脏。
And they're just scratching themselves, and they're just talking to themselves loud.
他们只是在抓自己，他们只是在大声自言自语。
And they're just gone.
他们就这样走了。
That's it.
就是这样。
That's the last level.
这是最后一个级别。
That's called Skel.
这就是所谓的斯凯尔。
And Skell is the terminology that police use for homeless people.
Skell 是警方对无家可归者使用的术语。
They call them Skells, which is short for skeletons.
他们称它们为 Skells，这是骷髅的缩写。
So whenever they go on the mocrophone, they say we have a Skell here.
所以每当他们打开麦克风时，他们都会说我们这里有一个斯凯尔。
They're referring to a homeless person.
他们指的是一个无家可归的人。
They refer to all homeless people as Skells.
他们将所有无家可归的人称为斯凯尔人。
They don't see a difference.
他们看不出有什么不同。
Maybe the most remarkable thing about Gregory and Daniel is how upbeat they were about all this.
也许格雷戈里和丹尼尔最引人注目的事情就是他们对这一切有多么乐观。
It's hard to imagine being so happy living on the street.
很难想象住在街上会如此幸福。
But when I first met them a year ago, they'd been on the street for a year already, and they were almost always like this.
但当我一年前第一次见到他们时，他们已经在街上呆了一年了，他们几乎总是这样。
Though Gregory said there was one thing he definitely did not like about living on the street.
尽管格雷戈里说有一件事他绝对不喜欢住在街上。
No one told me that being homeless meant celibacy.
没有人告诉我无家可归就意味着独身。
That was the biggest thing.
这是最重要的事情。
I didn't think about it.
我没有考虑。
I didn't think about it at all.
我根本没想过。
I'm like, [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
我想，[无法理解]。
But you know what?
但你知道吗？
Obsidian picked up some.
黑曜石捡起了一些。
It's the magic of Obsidian.
这就是黑曜石的魔力。
Yeah.
是的。
He had two girlfriends since he was homeless.
自从他无家可归以来，他有过两个女朋友。
Two.
二。
It's the Obsidian suave, suave, sua-vay, charisma.
这就是黑曜石的温文尔雅、温文尔雅、sua-vay、魅力。
You know, he's handsome.
你知道，他很帅。
He's young.
他很年轻。
He's got it going on.
他已经搞定了。
He's not afraid to say it.
他并不害怕说出来。
But I'm more rugged looking, more pie-faced, more out of shape.
但我看起来更粗犷，脸更圆，身材更走样。
The two of us standing together, women are going to gravitate to him, and I'm going to be the one going to get the drinks.
我们两个站在一起，女人就会被他吸引，而我将成为那个去拿饮料的人。
They squeaked by with a little money from occasional odd jobs.
他们靠偶尔打零工赚到的一点钱勉强度日。
Gregory wrote reviews of porno films.
格雷戈里写了色情电影的评论。
He didn't get paid, but he got to keep the DVDs, which he sold for $2 apiece to video stores.
他没有得到报酬，但他保留了这些 DVD，并以每张 2 美元的价格卖给了音像店。
Obsidian would take a day here and there doing small construction jobs.
黑曜石会花一天时间到处做一些小型建筑工作。
And Gregory's mom sent him $100 every month.
格雷戈里的妈妈每个月都会寄给他 100 美元。
And they started to make some money from poetry.
他们开始从诗歌中赚钱。
When they were featured together at the East Orange Public Library in New Jersey, they got $100 each.
当他们在新泽西州东奥兰治公共图书馆一起亮相时，他们每人获得了 100 美元。
As for food, they're eating well, gaining weight even.
至于食物，他们吃得很好，体重甚至增加了。
There's no such thing as a hungry homeless person.
世界上根本不存在饥饿的无家可归者。
In this city?
在这个城市？
Daniel Canada You can't be hungry.
丹尼尔加拿大 你不能饿。
That's a joke.
那是个笑话。
Daniel Canada Too many places to eat.
丹尼尔 加拿大 吃饭的地方太多了。
Anyone that has a sign that says, I'm hungry and haven't eaten in three days--
任何人如果有一个标语，上面写着“我饿了，而且已经三天没吃东西了——”
That's a joke.
那是个笑话。
Gregory Deloatch --is lying.
格雷戈里·德洛奇——在撒谎。
It's a scam.
这是一个骗局。
Gregory Deloatch It's a scam.
格雷戈里·德洛奇 这是一个骗局。
The city is littered with soup kitchens, littered.
这座城市到处都是施食处，到处都是。
And the quality of the food is good.
而且食物的质量很好。
They have good quality food, fresh vegetables.
他们有优质的食物，新鲜的蔬菜。
Incredible.
极好的。
It's the churches.
这是教堂。
Most of them are the churches.
其中大部分是教堂。
If it wasn't for the churches, the homeless people would starve to death.
如果没有教堂，无家可归的人就会饿死。
Federal programs suck.
联邦计划很糟糕。
Daniel Canada Suck.
丹尼尔加拿大吸。
Even the quality of the food sucks at the federal program.
联邦计划甚至连食物的质量也很糟糕。
And they give you so little bit of it.
他们只给你那么一点点。
The churches, however, on the other hand, the people go out of their way to cook good food for you, serve you.
然而，另一方面，教堂的人们不遗余力地为你做饭，为你服务。
They want you there.
他们希望你在那里。
They treat you differently.
他们对待你的方式不同。
They perform music for you.
他们为你演奏音乐。
Gregory Deloatch Breakfast there is wonderful.
Gregory Deloatch 那里的早餐很棒。
It's always something great.
这总是很棒的事情。
Corn beef hash, beef stew.
玉米牛肉哈希，炖牛肉。
Gregory Deloatch Chicken, fish, salmon, fresh salmon, fresh whitefish.
Gregory Deloatch 鸡肉、鱼、鲑鱼、新鲜鲑鱼、新鲜白鲑鱼。
Oh man, lamb, steak, beef.
哦天啊，羊肉，牛排，牛肉。
Go around as many times as you want.
你想绕多少圈就绕多少次。
Knock yourself out.
把自己打垮。
They give you a bag of food on the way out.
出去的时候他们会给你一袋食物。
Are you the person this food is meant for?
你是这个食物的目标人群吗？
You could have made a living, you're competent.
你本可以谋生的，你有能力。
Is it meant for us?
是为我们而设的吗？
I mean, do all homeless people have to be disabled?
我的意思是，所有无家可归的人都必须是残疾人吗？
Do all homeless people have to be crazy?
所有无家可归的人都必须疯吗？
It's for the hungry.
这是给饥饿的人的。
There are people who have jobs that eat there too.
有些有工作的人也在那里吃饭。
But do you think people would want to be donating to you?
但你认为人们愿意为你捐款吗？
We're donating to these guys' experiment?
我们要为这些人的实验捐款吗？
Would they donate if they knew it was coming to us?
如果他们知道我们会捐款，他们会捐款吗？
No, no.
不，不。
Though Gregory and Daniel are the rare homeless people who got into homelessness as a lifestyle choice, there's not such a clear line dividing them from some of the more hardcore cases at the soup kitchens.
尽管格雷戈里和丹尼尔是极少数以无家可归作为生活方式选择的无家可归者，但他们与施粥处的一些更顽固的案例并没有明确的界限。
After all, it was alcohol that got Gregory fired from his last job and brought him to the point that homelessness became an option.
毕竟，正是酒精导致格雷戈里被解雇，并使他无家可归成为一种选择。
I was making 60 grand a year, 60 grand not working hard.
我一年赚 60 格兰德，60 格兰德不是努力工作。
If I wanted to push it, I could push it to 70.
如果我想推的话，我可以推到70。
They want you to do overtime in Wall Street.
他们希望你在华尔街加班。
Wall Street judges you by overtime.
华尔街通过加班来评判你。
So yeah, I was raking it in.
所以是的，我正在努力。
I was spending it just as fast on alcohol.
我在酒精上的花费也同样快。
I was downing alcohol like nobody's business.
我像别人一样喝酒。
I would get up around 8:00 at night, take a shower.
晚上8:00左右起床，洗澡。
Have a pint of Jack Daniels on me when I got into my car and drove to work.
当我开车去上班时，请给我一品脱杰克丹尼啤酒。
Finished that pint by the time I got out of Port Authority.
当我离开港务局时，我已经喝完了那品脱啤酒。
Stop, get another pint, go into work.
停下来，再喝一杯，继续工作。
Don't want to drink the pint, because I don't want to blast through it.
不想喝那品脱，因为我不想喝光它。
Put the pint in the drawer, go to the Dakota Road House, and drink shots all night.
把一品脱啤酒放进抽屉里，去达科他路屋，喝了一晚上的酒。
Eight hours later, come back, grab my pint.
八小时后，回来拿我的一品脱啤酒。
Get off work, and go to another bar, Smith's, and drink all day until I got tired, shots.
下班后，去另一家酒吧，史密斯酒吧，喝一整天，直到我累了，开枪。
Counterintuitively, he does less drinking now that he's homeless.
与直觉相反的是，由于他无家可归，他喝酒的次数减少了。
He doesn't have the money to keep up his rigorous Jack Daniels routine.
他没有钱来维持严格的杰克丹尼日常习惯。
And Gregory and Daniel don't beg.
格雷戈里和丹尼尔也不会乞求。
It's a rule.
这是一条规则。
Begging is Skeksi.
乞讨是Skeksi。
Here's Gregory.
这是格雷戈里。
Most benefit to me of being homeless is the fact that it kept me from drinking, kept me from smoking.
无家可归对我来说最大的好处是它让我不喝酒、不抽烟。
And that's not the only self-improvement perk homelessness gave him.
这并不是无家可归给他带来的唯一自我完善的好处。
Therapy, therapy.
治疗，治疗。
The state gives it to you.
国家给你。
You must be nuts if you're on the street.
如果你在街上，你一定是疯了。
So the state has--
所以国家有——
So you say I'm homeless, can I have therapy, and they'll just give it to you?
所以你说我无家可归，我可以接受治疗吗？他们就会给你治疗？
You're homeless, we'll give you therapy.
你无家可归，我们会给你治疗。
You're homeless, we'll give you therapy.
你无家可归，我们会给你治疗。
[LAUGHTER] Lu Olkowski All of this is paid by Medicaid, which also pays for his eyeglasses and his prescriptions.
[笑声] Lu Olkowski 所有这些都是由医疗补助支付的，该补助还支付他的眼镜和处方费用。
Once he started treatment, Gregory learned that the voices he hears in his head sometimes, loud, insistent voices, which he assumed came from drinking so much, were signs that he's bipolar and schizophrenic.
开始治疗后，格雷戈里了解到，他有时在脑海中听到的声音，大声而坚持的声音，他认为这些声音来自酗酒，是他患有双相情感障碍和精神分裂症的迹象。
And now he gets meds to keep that under control, all free.
现在他可以免费获得药物来控制病情。
So there were benefits to being on the street, including for their poetry.
因此，流落街头是有好处的，包括他们的诗歌。
After a few months, Gregory and Daniel decided to start their own open mic night called "The Times Square Shout Out" at one of Gregory's old drinking haunts on Eighth Avenue.
几个月后，格雷戈里和丹尼尔决定在第八大道格雷戈里老喝酒的地方之一开始他们自己的开放麦克风之夜，名为“时代广场大喊大叫”。
They co-hosted, and it was popular enough that they started to dream of being discovered.
他们共同主持，节目非常受欢迎，他们开始梦想被人发现。
A lot of their poetry has to do life on the streets or the lives they left behind.
他们的很多诗歌都涉及街头生活或他们留下的生活。
Here's Obsidian.
这里是黑曜石。
This one's entitled "Where's Daniel?" Of course, you know my real name is Daniel.
这个标题是“丹尼尔在哪里？”当然，你知道我的真名是丹尼尔。
Where's Daniel at?
丹尼尔在哪里？
In alleyways and sleazy barbacks, on cheapened soup lines with hands in pockets against the wind.
在小巷和肮脏的酒吧里，在廉价的汤线上，双手插在口袋里迎着风。
Where's Daniel at?
丹尼尔在哪里？
Daniel, Obsidian, comes on stage with his poetry on scraps of newspaper and napkins.
黑曜石丹尼尔带着他在报纸和餐巾纸上写的诗登上舞台。
But Gregory, Hobo Bob, is the one with the computer.
但格雷戈里，流浪汉鲍勃，是拥有电脑的人。
And he comes onstage with all the poems printed out in crisp sheets, protected in plastic.
当他走上舞台时，所有的诗都被打印在清晰的纸张上，并用塑料保护起来。
This one's, "I'm Hobo Bob." I'm Hobo Bob.
这个是“我是流浪汉鲍勃”。我是流浪汉鲍勃。
And they call me that because I own nothing, insolvent, collateral-less, without liquidity.
他们这么称呼我，是因为我一无所有，无力偿债，没有抵押品，没有流动性。
Me?
我？
Ha ha, I laugh.
哈哈，我笑了。
They say Bloomberg owns Gracie Mansion, but I don't see him out there when I'm sleeping on his lawn.
他们说布隆伯格拥有格雷西大厦，但当我睡在他的草坪上时，我并没有看到他。
I'm Hobo Bob.
我是流浪汉鲍勃。
Neither of these guys will be the next Poet Laureate, but at their readings, and other people's too, they really stood out.
这些人都不会成为下一任桂冠诗人，但在他们和其他人的朗读中，他们确实脱颖而出。
They were popular, and not just because they were homeless.
他们很受欢迎，不仅仅是因为他们无家可归。
A lot of the readers at these amateur open mics, frankly, are pretty boring.
坦率地说，这些业余开放麦克风的很多读者都很无聊。
But Gregory and Daniel are natural performers who play to the crowd.
但格雷戈里和丹尼尔是天生的表演者，他们向观众表演。
And the crowds love them.
人们喜欢他们。
The first one's entitled "A Few of My Favorite Things."
第一个的标题是“我最喜欢的一些东西”。
[SINGING TO THE TUNE OF "MY FAVORITE THINGS" BY RICHARD RODGERS] Waking up achy and out in the open.
[唱着理查德·罗杰斯 (Richard Rodgers) 的《我最喜欢的东西》(My Favourite Thing) 曲调] 醒来时浑身疼痛，却身处露天。
Guard dogs are barking before words are spoken.
在说话之前看门狗就会吠叫。
Wrought iron benches that causes suffering--
造成痛苦的锻铁长凳——
Taking a shower with four dozen others.
和另外四打人一起洗澡。
Moving around in a stench that could smother.
在令人窒息的恶臭中走来走去。
Finding that you are the source of the stink.
发现你就是恶臭的来源。
These are a few of my favorite things.
这些是我最喜欢的一些东西。
When the bottle's dry--
当瓶子干了——
Then about a year after they hit the street, they suffered their first big setback.
在他们走上街头大约一年后，他们遭遇了第一次重大挫折。
The bar where they hosted the shout-out got tired of it and canceled the show, and their dream of being discovered suddenly seemed a little less realistic.
他们举办喊话活动的酒吧厌倦了，取消了演出，他们被人发现的梦想突然显得有点不现实了。
And being on the street was getting old.
流落街头已经变老了。
Here's Daniel.
这是丹尼尔。
You know what?
你知道吗？
It's getting to be tiring.
越来越累了。
At first it started off, it was kind of simple.
一开始，事情很简单。
But then, as you continue to be out there, it wears on you actually.
但是，当你继续在那里时，它实际上会让你感到疲惫。
It wears on you psychologically.
它会给你带来心理上的困扰。
It wears on you physically in various ways.
它以各种方式对你的身体产生磨损。
So now, we're at the point where it's tiring, and we are working our way to get out of it.
所以现在，我们正处于疲惫的地步，我们正在努力摆脱它。
But now, the interesting thing about it is once you go into the streets, it's not so easy to extract yourself.
但现在，有趣的是，一旦你走上街头，你就不再那么容易脱身了。
It's easy to get in, but not easy to get out.
进去容易，出来却不容易。
It's like roach motel.
这就像蟑螂汽车旅馆。
And it was Daniel, Obsidian, the one with more experience on the streets, who took off.
而起飞的正是丹尼尔·黑曜石，这个在街头更有经验的人。
He bailed for his mom's place in South Carolina, leaving Gregory by himself.
他逃到了母亲在南卡罗来纳州的住处，留下格雷戈里一个人。
I caught up with Gregory then.
然后我就追上了格雷戈里。
This is August of last year.
这是去年八月的事。
He looked spent and needed a haircut and fresh clothes.
他看起来很疲惫，需要理发和换衣服。
Yeah, I'm in Skek mode.
是的，我处于 Skek 模式。
Yeah, I'm in Skek mode.
是的，我处于 Skek 模式。
Skek mode, one step down the homeless ladder.
Skek 模式，从无家可归者的阶梯上走下来的一步。
Oh man.
噢，伙计。
It's been a rough one with Obsidian leaving.
黑曜石离开后，这是一段艰难的经历。
We never really had a chance to sit down and talk about it because I don't really talk about a lot of things.
我们从来没有真正有机会坐下来谈论它，因为我并没有真正谈论很多事情。
But he packed up and had to go.
但他收拾好行李，不得不离开。
I can understand, it's a tough life.
我能理解，生活很艰难。
It's not easy.
这并不容易。
I could tell, as we were going along, he was complaining about every little thing.
我看得出来，当我们一起走的时候，他在抱怨每一件小事。
There was more and more discussion about sleeping in a bed.
关于睡在床上的讨论越来越多。
Oh man, crawling into a bed, there's nothing like it.
天哪，爬上床，没有什么比这更好的了。
You need your eight hours of sleep, and it has to be contiguous.
你需要八个小时的睡眠，而且必须是连续的。
It can't be broken sleep.
睡眠不能被打破。
You have no one waking you up.
没有人叫醒你。
You know, da-da-da-da.
你知道，达达达达。
OK, we know this.
好的，我们知道这一点。
I mean, you're preaching to the choir here.
我的意思是，你在这里向唱诗班布道。
[LAUGHTER] But yeah, he would go back and forth with that.
[笑声]但是，是的，他会反复讨论这一点。
And then he's like, my mother, she says she can get the internet for me, and she can do this for me, she could do that for me.
然后他就像，我的母亲，她说她可以为我上网，她可以为我做这个，她可以为我做那个。
So then plans were being drawn.
于是就制定了计划。
When Daniel had been around, everything seemed hopeful.
当丹尼尔在的时候，一切似乎都充满希望。
They were a team, and somehow that made the difference.
他们是一个团队，这在某种程度上产生了影响。
And when Daniel left, Gregory felt abandoned.
当丹尼尔离开时，格雷戈里感到被抛弃了。
He was hurt.
他受伤了。
And finally, in November of 2007, alone after a year and a half on the street, Gregory found permanent shelter at a halfway house in the East Village called the Bowery Resident's Committee with the help of one of his doctors.
最后，在 2007 年 11 月，在流浪了一年半之后，格雷戈里在一位医生的帮助下，在东村一所名为包厘街居民委员会的中途之家找到了永久的庇护所。
He got his own bunk.
他有自己的铺位。
And now he wouldn't shut up about the comforts of a warm bed, about being able to look out the window at people trudging through the cold, while he watches the morning news and eats Cheerios.
现在，他不会对温暖的床的舒适闭嘴，也不会在一边看早间新闻、吃麦片的同时，一边看着窗外在寒冷中艰难前行的人们。
BRC has been around since 1971 and screens and monitors the people staying with them.
BRC 自 1971 年以来一直存在，对与他们住在一起的人进行筛查和监控。
There are rules to living there.
在那里生活是有规则的。
Residents have to help with chores.
居民必须帮忙做家务。
There are regular community meetings to attend, mandated curfew, and regular drug and alcohol testing.
定期参加社区会议、强制宵禁以及定期药物和酒精测试。
Any violation of the rules risks getting kicked out, which seemed fine with Gregory, even welcome.
任何违反规则的行为都有可能被开除，这对格雷戈里来说似乎没什么问题，甚至是受欢迎的。
And when Daniel got bored in South Carolina and moved back to New York, he started taking construction jobs, hoping to work much more regularly, so he could finally get off the street and into an SRO, a single room occupancy hotel.
当丹尼尔在南卡罗来纳州感到无聊并搬回纽约时，他开始从事建筑工作，希望能更规律地工作，这样他终于可以离开街道，住进单间住宿酒店 SRO。
And so Gregory and Daniel's experiment to use homelessness as a way to dedicate more time to their poetry is over.
因此，格雷戈里和丹尼尔利用无家可归作为将更多时间投入诗歌的方式的实验结束了。
And just last week, I asked Daniel and Gregory if it worked.
就在上周，我问丹尼尔和格雷戈里这是否有效。
Here's Daniel.
这是丹尼尔。
Not the way we wanted it to.
不是我们想要的那样。
Like I said at the beginning, we wanted to take this open mic venue beyond Russell Simmons or Def Poetry Jam.
就像我一开始所说的那样，我们希望这个开放麦克风场地超越 Russell Simmons 或 Def Poetry Jam。
We thought that by now we'd be sought by television and driving around in fancy cars, be millionaires.
我们以为现在我们会受到电视的追捧，开着豪华汽车到处走，成为百万富翁。
That was success for us.
这对我们来说就是成功。
We didn't know better.
我们不知道更好。
You're going to make a living off of being a poet?
你打算以当诗人为生吗？
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
We were like, well hey, hard smack of reality there, you know?
我们当时想，嘿，这很现实，你知道吗？
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
Being homeless, was it worth it?
无家可归，值得吗？
Being homeless, was it worth it?
无家可归，值得吗？
Being homeless, I would say, making the choice to spend that time doing something, which is writing poetry and getting into the poetry circuit, that was definitely worth the choice.
我想说，无家可归，选择花时间做一些事情，即写诗和进入诗歌圈子，这绝对是值得的选择。
We got, I guess you can say, the joy of being poets.
我想你可以说，我们得到了成为诗人的乐趣。
Read our poetry in front of a lot of people, be heard by a lot of people, that's an adrenaline rush.
在很多人面前阅读我们的诗歌，被很多人听到，那是一种肾上腺素激增的感觉。
And we did so well that the experiment worked.
我们做得非常好，实验成功了。
If you look back to three years ago, when you were making money, you had a real job making real money, 70 grand, and you have skills.
如果你回顾三年前，当你赚钱的时候，你有一份真正的工作，赚了真正的钱，70盛，而且你有技能。
Does it surprise you that now, three years later, you are dependent on other people to help you find housing and a job, things that you did for 40 years on your own?
三年后的现在，您是否感到惊讶，您依靠其他人来帮助您找到住房和工作，而您自己做了 40 年的事情？
Three years ago, looking in, I would never believe that I would be in social services or have a committee looking for an apartment for me, because I could do all that myself.
三年前，回想起来，我永远不会相信我会从事社会服务工作或有一个委员会为我寻找公寓，因为我自己可以做这一切。
But I wasn't happy.
但我并不高兴。
I wasn't genuinely happy.
我并不是真的很高兴。
I was going through the motions of working a job, and I didn't feel fulfilled.
我只是走过场做一份工作，但我并没有感到满足。
I'm homeless, I'm in the circuit.
我无家可归，我在赛道上。
I'm writing poetry.
我正在写诗。
This is a different life.
这是不一样的生活。
But, to me, it's a far better life than going back to working in computers and networking and all that.
但是，对我来说，这比回到计算机和网络等领域工作要好得多。
I mean, I wouldn't like to go back to that lifestyle.
我的意思是，我不想回到那种生活方式。
And if it takes going through social services and all that to avoid that lifestyle, I would choose no other way.
如果需要通过社会服务和所有这些来避免这种生活方式，我不会选择其他方式。
But in the last few months, something else has changed for Gregory.
但在过去的几个月里，格雷戈里的其他事情发生了变化。
Having Daniel back from South Carolina, seeing Daniel drink and stay out late was a catalyst, he says.
他说，让丹尼尔从南卡罗来纳州回来，看到丹尼尔喝酒并在外面呆到很晚是一种催化剂。
It made him question whether he should stick with a life of curfews and breathalyzers and drug testing.
这让他质疑自己是否应该继续过着宵禁、酒精测试和药物测试的生活。
And two weeks ago, talking to Gregory, I learned that hanging out with Daniel has had an effect.
两周前，在与格雷戈里交谈时，我了解到与丹尼尔一起闲逛产生了效果。
He started drinking secretly, and planning to drink a lot more.
他开始偷偷喝酒，并打算喝更多。
Oh, I know I'm going to slip back into my old habits.
哦，我知道我又要恢复原来的习惯了。
That's a given.
这是既定的。
That's what I'm waiting for.
这就是我在等待的。
That's the party after the war.
那是战后的聚会。
No, I'm totally waiting for that day when I can close the door and lock it.
不，我完全在等待那一天，我可以关上门并锁上它。
And I don't have anyone saying, come here for a minute, I want you to blow into this tube.
我没有人说，过来一下，我要你向这个管子里吹气。
And then I'm going to go outside, and I'm going to buy a nice quart size-- or family size.
然后我要去外面买一夸脱大小的——或者家庭大小的。
I'm going to get the family size, which is a little bit bigger, of Jack Daniels and sneak it upstairs.
我要去买家庭装的杰克丹尼啤酒，稍微大一点，然后偷偷带上楼。
And just pound on that thing for hours and hours and hours and hours.
然后就用力敲打那个东西几个小时、几个小时、几个小时、几个小时。
I'm going to an alcohol therapist too.
我也要去酒精治疗师那里。
She gives me insight into why I drink, and reasons why I drink, and why I shouldn't drink anymore.
她让我深入了解我为什么喝酒，为什么我喝酒，以及为什么我不应该再喝酒。
And I told her that basically I want a healthy relationship with alcohol, if that's possible.
我告诉她，如果可能的话，我基本上希望与酒精保持健康的关系。
I want to be able to drink sociably like everyone else.
我希望能够像其他人一样在社交场合喝酒。
And she's led me to believe that I can't.
她让我相信我不能。
I can no longer drink like everyone else.
我不能再像其他人一样喝酒了。
I don't care.
我不在乎。
And it's not that I don't care.
这并不是说我不在乎。
I really do care, but I can't care.
我真的很在乎，但我无法在意。
This really stunned me.
这着实让我惊呆了。
Just a couple of months ago, he was talking to me about the possibility of enrolling in college.
就在几个月前，他正在和我谈论上大学的可能性。
I think it's easy to assume that what you or I would want for Gregory is what he would want for himself: sobriety, a full-time job.
我认为很容易假设你或我对格雷戈里的期望就是他对自己的期望：清醒，一份全职工作。
But Gregory has had full-time jobs and doesn't want them anymore.
但格雷戈里已经有全职工作了，他不再想要这些了。
And he doesn't want to be sober either.
而且他也不想清醒。
His new dream is to have it all.
他的新梦想是拥有一切。
A roof over his head, like he has now.
他头上有一个屋顶，就像他现在一样。
A job, but only part-time so he has lots of freedom to write.
有一份工作，但只是兼职，所以他有很多写作的自由。
And booze.
还有酒。
And Daniel's dream is pretty much the same, though without such a serious commitment to drinking.
丹尼尔的梦想几乎是一样的，尽管没有如此认真地致力于饮酒。
And because Daniel and Gregory have each other, they make each other believe these dreams are possible.
因为丹尼尔和格雷戈里有彼此，他们让彼此相信这些梦想是可能的。
That's the great thing about their friendship.
这就是他们友谊的伟大之处。
And maybe the worst thing.
也许是最糟糕的事情。
Lu Olkowski in New York.
卢·奥尔科夫斯基在纽约。
Coming up, a kid is sent off on his bike with one simple instruction, just one thing that he has to do for his own good.
接下来，一个孩子在一个简单的指示下被送上自行车，这只是他为了自己的利益必须做的一件事。
But can he do it?
但他能做到吗？
The answer in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台很快就会给出答案。
[MUSIC - "SOWER OF SYSTEMS" BY LUNGFISH]
[音乐 - Lungfish 的“系统播种者”]
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, social engineering.
今天的节目，社会工程。
We have stories of people who are trying to re-engineer their own lives.
我们有一些人们试图重新设计自己生活的故事。
Though actually, in this half of the show, we have parents trying to engineer the lives of their children.
事实上，在节目的这半部分，我们有父母试图设计孩子的生活。
Basically, parenting is actually one long exercise in shaping your children's lives.
基本上，养育孩子实际上是塑造孩子生活的一项长期练习。
In this next act, for instance, which we're calling "Take My Bike, Please," Dave Dickerson recalls a particular bit of parenting that went down in his boyhood home in Arizona.
例如，在我们称之为“请借我的自行车”的下一幕中，戴夫·迪克森回忆起他童年时在亚利桑那州的家中经历的一段特殊的养育过程。
He was 12.
他12岁。
His little brother had just gotten his first bike.
他的弟弟刚刚得到了他的第一辆自行车。
Now Dave was getting one too.
现在戴夫也得到了一个。
I was really excited.
我真的很兴奋。
This was the most money we'd ever had spent on us.
这是我们花在自己身上的最多的钱。
And I never had dreams of biking everywhere, like doing wheelies or all the things that junior high kids, I guess, are supposed to be thrilled about.
我从来没有梦想过骑自行车去任何地方，比如做特技或所有初中生应该感到兴奋的事情。
It was just-- Tucson is a sprawling town.
只是——图森是一个庞大的城镇。
And there's a lot of walking, and a lot of bus riding.
而且有很多步行，也有很多乘坐公共汽车。
And it would just really save time.
这确实会节省时间。
I was really excited about that.
我对此感到非常兴奋。
More free time to actually play video games, or whatever it is that I wanted to do, rather than wasting all my time in transit.
有更多的空闲时间来真正玩电子游戏，或者做任何我想做的事情，而不是浪费我所有的时间在路上。
And at the same time, there was the implied responsibility, like you'd better not mess this up.
同时，还有隐含的责任，就像你最好不要把事情搞砸一样。
Dad said, hop in the car.
爸爸说，上车吧。
Me and my brother got in and went to this used bike store with both my parents.
我和我的兄弟上了车，和我的父母一起去了这家二手自行车商店。
So it was sort of a family outing.
所以这就像一次家庭郊游。
And I got the bike.
我得到了自行车。
It was this nice green bike.
这是这辆漂亮的绿色自行车。
Dad said, so do you want to put this in the back of the car and drive home?
爸爸说，那你要不要把这个放在车后座，然后开车回家？
Or do you want to ride it home?
或者你想骑它回家吗？
And I said, oh, I want to ride it home.
我说，哦，我想骑它回家。
And he said, OK, but don't stop anywhere because we don't have a lock for this thing.
他说，好吧，但不要在任何地方停下来，因为我们没有锁这个东西。
And I said, OK, yeah, no problem.
我说，好的，是的，没问题。
And I drove off while Dad was still paying.
当爸爸还在付钱时我就开车走了。
And Dana went with me, and he was walking along beside me.
达纳和我一起走，他在我身边走着。
And we got maybe a block, two blocks, whatever, when we passed this convenience store that we'd gone to a lot of times and thought, oh my God, we have to play Asteroids , this is so cool.
我们可能有一个街区，两个街区，无论如何，当我们经过这家我们去过很多次的便利店时，我们想，天哪，我们必须玩小行星，这太酷了。
Because I'm kind of an adult now, and I can make decisions like this.
因为我现在已经是一个成年人了，我可以做出这样的决定。
This was sort of the way I pictured my life with this bike, where I would get my allowance and bike to the store and play this game, and so on.
这就是我用这辆自行车描绘我的生活的方式，在那里我可以得到我的零用钱，骑自行车去商店，玩这个游戏，等等。
And I couldn't wait for that to happen.
我迫不及待地希望这一切发生。
So on that basis, I went, OK, let the fun begin.
因此，在此基础上，我说，好吧，让乐趣开始吧。
But we knew we weren't supposed to stop.
但我们知道我们不应该停下来。
We didn't have a lock for the bike, but we decided we'd just take turns looking.
我们的自行车没有锁，但我们决定轮流寻找。
We'd do a two player game, and when I was playing, Dana would watch.
我们会玩一个两人游戏，当我玩的时候，达纳会观看。
And when Dana was playing, I would watch.
当达纳演奏时，我会观看。
So I leaned the bike up against the front of the store.
所以我把自行车靠在商店前面。
But what actually happened, of course, is that it's really hard to have someone playing a game right next to you, and you have to go on the second they die, and not look at the game.
但实际发生的情况当然是，让某人在你旁边玩游戏真的很困难，而且你必须在他们死后继续玩，而不是看游戏。
And then of course, you have to go, oh, be careful with the-- oh look, shields.
当然，你必须走，哦，小心——哦，看，盾牌。
We stopped looking.
我们不再寻找。
We would glance up occasionally.
我们偶尔会抬头看一眼。
And when we came out, the bike was gone.
当我们出来时，自行车不见了。
And we looked at each other utterly horrified.
我们惊恐地看着对方。
I remember we cried.
我记得我们哭了。
And then almost without a word, I remember we just walked home.
然后我记得我们几乎一言不发地走回家。
We realized this is it.
我们意识到就是这样。
We've got to walk the same path we've walked before, but it's going to be in the dark.
我们必须走以前走过的路，但会是在黑暗中。
And I do remember thinking, we're never going to get allowance again.
我记得我当时想，我们再也不会得到津贴了。
We had been entrusted with this great gift at great expense, and we had screwed it up before we had even gotten the bike home.
我们花了很大的代价才得到了这份伟大的礼物，但我们还没把自行车带回家就搞砸了。
The one time, the one time I stepped outside the lines, the worst calamity possible happened.
有一次，当我越过界限的时候，最严重的灾难就发生了。
As we got into our actual neighborhood, about half an hour, 45 minutes later, I just had to sort of walk toward my doom, walk toward judgment.
大约半小时四十五分钟后，当我们进入我们真正的社区时，我不得不走向我的厄运，走向审判。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
We waited outside the door for a little while, gathering the courage to go in.
我们在门外等了一会儿，才鼓起勇气进去。
And I opened the door, and my dad was there.
我打开门，我爸爸就在那里。
So when you came in, and before you could really say much, I just said, the bike is in the back.
所以当你进来时，在你真正能说太多之前，我只是说，自行车在后面。
I brought it home.
我把它带回家了。
Right.
正确的。
Father You had gone inside a Circle K or something and left the bike sitting out.
尤爸爸走进了Circle K之类的地方，把自行车留在了外面。
And I decided to then make the object lesson of stealing the bike, which I just told your mother to take the car home.
然后我决定做一个偷自行车的实物课，我刚刚告诉你妈妈把车开回家。
And I went and grabbed the bike and ran off with it.
我走过去抓起自行车就跑了。
And what's more, somebody saw me do that.
更重要的是，有人看到我这么做了。
And they stopped me and said, why are you stealing this bike?
他们拦住我说，你为什么要偷这辆自行车？
I saw you steal that bike, they said.
他们说，我看到你偷了那辆自行车。
And then I'm talking to this stranger trying to explain why I'm stealing a bike.
然后我和这个陌生人交谈，试图解释我为什么要偷自行车。
Oh my God.
我的天啊。
Father And this guy stopped me.
父亲 这家伙阻止了我。
And then I had to explain to him, and he didn't really buy my story.
然后我不得不向他解释，但他并不真正相信我的故事。
That's funny.
那很好笑。
Father Normally nobody pays any attention to somebody stealing a bike, right?
父亲 通常没有人会注意偷自行车的人，对吗？
I was always bothered about that.
我一直为此烦恼。
I thought I had overdone things.
我以为我做的事情有些过分了。
Why?
为什么？
In what way?
以什么方式？
Father The issue for me was you had to come out of this store and discover the bike that you'd gotten an hour before is now gone and that you had to walk home for an hour, a mile and a half.
父亲 对我来说，问题是你必须走出这家商店，发现一小时前买的自行车现在不见了，你必须步行一个小时、一英里半回家。
And the regret then is just that this took away the pleasure of getting a new possession.
遗憾的是，这剥夺了获得新财产的乐趣。
It just sucks all the joy out of what should have been a really fun, exciting, new thing.
它只是吸走了本应是一件真正有趣、令人兴奋的新事物的所有乐趣。
And it just puts a black cloud over it.
它只是给它蒙上了一层乌云。
One of the things I learned from that was that I had been-- obviously, I was taking the bike for granted.
我从中学到的一件事是，显然，我认为自行车是理所当然的。
It was that long walk home that made me realize-- I had time to think how much money I had squandered and lost by being foolish and gee, walking sucks.
正是那次漫长的步行回家让我意识到——我有时间思考我因愚蠢而浪费和损失了多少钱，哎呀，走路真是太糟糕了。
But I've always told people is that after that happened, I felt safe, safer than I had before.
但我总是告诉人们，在那件事发生之后，我感觉很安全，比以前更安全。
And that I realized that even if you screw up, sometimes you get a chance to-- that it's not over.
我意识到，即使你搞砸了，有时你还有机会——事情还没有结束。
You get second chances in life, even when you can't possibly imagine how they could happen.
你会获得生命中的第二次机会，即使你无法想象它们是如何发生的。
So I told my dad this on the phone, and he was surprised.
所以我在电话里告诉了我爸爸这件事，他很惊讶。
It certainly wasn't what he was trying to teach me.
这当然不是他想教我的。
In fact, it was the opposite of what he was trying to teach me.
事实上，这与他试图教我的相反。
He was trying to demonstrate the world isn't safe.
他试图证明世界并不安全。
And what I learned was yes, it is.
我了解到的是，是的。
Or really I learned both things.
或者说我确实学到了这两件事。
Be careful, and sometimes you do get a second chance.
小心点，有时你确实会有第二次机会。
Knowing what you know now, do you think it worked?
知道你现在所知道的，你认为它有效吗？
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
David Dickerson So are you more OK with what you did?
大卫·迪克森 那么你对自己所做的事情还满意吗？
Yeah, I'm feeling-- just as you felt safer, I'm feeling the same kind of grace, you see, towards me.
是的，我感觉——就像你感觉更安全一样，我也感受到同样的恩典，你看，对我来说。
Of course.
当然。
You could also do what you think is a screw-up, and you get another chance, a different--
你也可以做你认为搞砸了的事情，然后你还有另一个机会，一个不同的——
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
David Dickerson Aw, I love you Dad.
大卫·迪克森 噢，我爱你，爸爸。
OK, I appreciate it.
好的，我很感激。
Ira Glass Dave Dickerson.
艾拉·格拉斯 戴夫·迪克森
Act Three, "Educated Guess." Amy Silverman is like most parents.
第三幕，“有根据的猜测”。艾米·西尔弗曼和大多数父母一样。
She wants whatever's best for her kids.
她想为孩子们提供最好的一切。
Except in her daughter Sophie's case, sometimes it is really hard to figure out what is best.
除了她女儿索菲的情况外，有时真的很难弄清楚什么是最好的。
Here's Amy.
这是艾米。
When Sophie was born, the nurses on the maternity ward all remarked on how mild her features were, that she barely looked like she had Down Syndrome.
苏菲出生时，产房的护士们都评价她的面容多么温和，看起来几乎不像患有唐氏综合症。
It means she'll be really high functioning, one of them said.
其中一位人士表示，这意味着她的工作能力将会非常出色。
And so for a long time, I held out secret hope that Sophie would be some kind of Down Syndrome genius.
所以很长一段时间，我都暗暗希望索菲能成为某种唐氏综合症天才。
How sweet, I thought, when Sophie showed a particular interest in the kiddy doctor's kit someone gave her as a gift.
当索菲对别人送给她的儿童医生工具包表现出特别的兴趣时，我想，这真是太贴心了。
OK, so not a surgeon, but maybe something else in the medical profession?
好吧，所以不是外科医生，但也许是医学界的其他人？
My dream of Sophie being an over-achiever persisted, even as I signed her up for all the therapies I could find and wrote Down Syndrome and mentally retarded on countless school, medical, and insurance forms.
尽管我为索菲报名了所有我能找到的治疗方法，并在无数的学校、医疗和保险表格上写下了唐氏综合症和智障，但我仍然梦想着索菲成为一名优秀的学生。
Even so, I was unprepared for the following scene.
即便如此，我还是对接下来的场景毫无准备。
In early February, I perched my butt on a tiny, navy blue plastic chair in Sophie's preschool classroom and faced her team, Team Sophie: the preschool teacher, speech pathologist, occupational therapist, physical therapist, principal, and school psychologist.
二月初，我坐在索菲学前班教室的一把小小的海军蓝色塑料椅子上，面对她的团队，苏菲团队：学前班老师、言语病理学家、职业治疗师、物理治疗师、校长和学校心理学家。
The shrink was the first to talk.
心理医生最先开口了。
We've called you here today to ask you to sign some paperwork, so we can test Sophie.
我们今天打电话给你，要求你签署一些文件，以便我们可以对索菲进行测试。
We don't think she qualifies as mentally retarded.
我们认为她不符合弱智的资格。
You don't think she what?
你不认为她是什么？
We don't think Sophie qualifies as mentally retarded, the psychologist repeated.
“我们不认为索菲有智障，”心理学家重复道。
We want to test her to find out.
我们想对她进行测试以找出答案。
He shuffled a pile of paperwork.
他翻动着一堆文件。
Immediately, I knew this had to do with money.
我立刻就知道这和钱有关。
Almost all of Sophie's services are paid for by the government.
索菲几乎所有的服务都是由政府支付费用的。
These days, that means two hours a week with a physical therapist, one each with speech, occupational, and music specialists, and more at school.
如今，这意味着每周有两个小时的物理治疗师的帮助，每人一个小时的言语、职业和音乐专家的帮助，等等。
I asked a question I knew the answer to, and what if she doesn't qualify anymore as mentally retarded?
我问了一个我知道答案的问题，如果她不再符合弱智的资格怎么办？
Then, he said, she'll lose her early intervention services.
然后，他说，她将失去早期干预服务。
But why?
但为什么？
Why wouldn't Sophie be retarded?
苏菲为什么不迟钝呢？
He answered, early intervention services boosted her IQ.
他回答说，早期干预服务提高了她的智商。
So here I was, sitting in front of Sophie's team of early intervention specialists while they were saying to me, we intervened in your retarded child's life so early and so well that she may no longer be retarded.
所以我坐在索菲的早期干预专家团队面前，他们对我说，我们对你弱智孩子的生活进行了如此早、如此好的干预，以至于她可能不再弱智了。
And as a result, we may stop helping her.
结果，我们可能会停止帮助她。
The whole thing was absurd.
整件事是荒谬的。
But I couldn't get the questions out of my head.
但我无法摆脱脑海中的疑问。
What if Sophie somehow really isn't mentally retarded?
如果苏菲真的不是智障怎么办？
What if?
如果什么？
I started to worry.
我开始担心。
Maybe I'm not pushing her hard enough.
也许我对她的压力还不够大。
Are my expectations too low?
我的期望太低了吗？
What if I'm underestimating my own kid?
如果我低估了自己的孩子怎么办？
Could she have a much different and better life if I acted like there wasn't anything wrong with her, if I treated her like her sister?
如果我表现得像她没有任何问题，如果我像对待她的妹妹一样对待她，她的生活会不会有很大不同、更好？
After a few weeks, Sophie's teacher emailed me to say the test results were in.
几周后，索菲的老师给我发电子邮件说测试结果已经出来了。
Could we meet again?
我们还能再见面吗？
I emailed back, yes, I could meet.
我回邮件说，是的，我可以见面。
I couldn't wait, I had to ask.
我等不及了，我不得不问。
She still qualifies as mentally retarded, doesn't she, I wrote.
我写道，她仍然符合弱智的标准，不是吗？
I know you can't say.
我知道你不能说。
That's just my prediction.
这只是我的预测。
Services aside, of course, that will still make me a little sad.
当然，撇开服务不谈，这仍然会让我有点难过。
This whole thing has been a little like Flowers for Algernon .
整件事有点像献给阿尔吉农的鲜花。
Did you ever read that story in school?
你在学校读过这个故事吗？
Yes, she'd read the story.
是的，她读过这个故事。
It made her really sad.
这让她真的很难过。
And no, she told me, Sophie does not qualify as retarded.
不，她告诉我，索菲并不属于弱智。
We scheduled the meeting, and the teacher sent home the test results.
我们安排了会面，老师把考试结果寄回家。
Sophie's IQ is 83.
苏菲的智商是83。
The cutoff for mentally retarded is 70.
弱智的分数线是70分。
Sophie, the test said, was able to correctly identify the color of her shoes, pink, and her pants, black.
测试显示，索菲能够正确识别她鞋子的颜色（粉色）和裤子的颜色（黑色）。
When asked her age, she said four, almost five.
当问到她的年龄时，她说四岁，快五岁了。
The test said a lot more and concluded she had below average intelligence.
测试说明了更多内容，得出的结论是她的智力低于平均水平。
That startled me.
这让我吃了一惊。
I was so used to seeing the word retarded, it had lost meaning.
我太习惯看到“迟钝”这个词了，它已经失去了意义。
But how dare someone say my daughter was below average.
但怎么会有人说我女儿低于平均水平。
Retarded you can't do anything about.
迟钝的你无能为力。
It's genetics.
这是遗传因素。
But below average?
但低于平均水平？
Below average is like she's not trying.
低于平均水平就好像她没有尝试。
Or I'm not trying.
或者我不努力。
I sat at the table facing Team Sophie and looked at the psychologist.
我坐在索菲团队对面的桌子旁，看着心理学家。
Instead, the principal spoke first.
相反，校长首先发言。
We all know what will happen if Sophie isn't labeled as mentally retarded, she said.
“我们都知道，如果苏菲没有被贴上智障的标签，会发生什么，”她说。
She'll lose her services, services we all believe got her where she is today.
她将失去她的服务，我们都相信这些服务让她取得了今天的成就。
Then she floored me.
然后她把我摔倒了。
And so you have a decision to make, she said.
所以你必须做出决定，她说。
You tell us what to do.
你告诉我们该怎么做。
You can label Sophie as mildly mentally retarded, and she can keep her services.
你可以给索菲贴上轻度智障的标签，她可以继续提供服务。
Otherwise, she'll lose them.
不然的话，她就会失去他们。
You have to decide today.
你今天必须做出决定。
My jaw dropped.
我的下巴都掉下来了。
Then I clenched it, pushing back the tears.
然后我紧紧地握着它，强忍着泪水。
It's got to be one of the most bizarre moments in a parent's life, being offered the chance to insist, my kid is too retarded.
这一定是父母一生中最奇怪的时刻之一，因为我有机会坚持说，我的孩子太弱智了。
I thought of a little girl I know who's one grade ahead of Sophie.
我想到了一个我认识的小女孩，她比苏菲高一个年级。
Like Sophie, she's got Down Syndrome, and she's smart.
和苏菲一样，她也患有唐氏综合症，但她很聪明。
She didn't test as mentally retarded either.
她也没有被测试为弱智。
That mom didn't hesitate.
这位妈妈没有犹豫。
She was happy to lose the mentally retarded label.
她很高兴丢掉了智障的标签。
Will that little girl have a better life with no label and way fewer services?
那个小女孩会在没有标签和更少服务的情况下过上更好的生活吗？
Would Sophie?
苏菲会吗？
This discussion was futile, and I knew it.
这种讨论是徒劳的，我知道这一点。
For this moment in time, yes, Sophie is smart.
是的，就目前而言，索菲很聪明。
She knows her ABCs.
她知道她的ABC。
She can count to 20.
她能数到20。
She can even count to 10 in Spanish.
她甚至可以用西班牙语数到10。
But that's kindergarten stuff.
但这是幼儿园的事情。
Her vocabulary is good, but the low muscle tone associated with Down Syndrome makes her almost impossible to understand.
她的词汇量很好，但与唐氏综合症相关的低肌张力使她几乎无法理解。
And the occupational therapist isn't sure she'll ever be able to write.
职业治疗师也不确定她是否能够写作。
She hopes someday Sophie will be able to sign her name.
她希望有一天索菲能够签上她的名字。
In another year or two, I know she'll fall behind.
再过一两年，我知道她会落后。
The mild facial features she was born with will become more pronounced.
她与生俱来的温和五官将会变得更加明显。
She'll look more and more like what she is, a person with Down Syndrome.
她看起来会越来越像一个患有唐氏综合症的人。
And whatever we decide today about whether or not to label her as mentally retarded, it won't change any of that.
无论我们今天决定是否给她贴上智障的标签，都不会改变这一点。
I signed the paperwork.
我签署了文件。
The principal was nice enough to write on the forms that the team, including the mother, agonized over the decision.
校长很友善地在表格上写下了包括母亲在内的整个团队对这一决定感到痛苦的信息。
The psychologist left the room and edited the test results.
心理学家离开房间并编辑了测试结果。
The numbers stayed the same, but he added a part about how it was believed the results were inflated due to early intervention services.
数字保持不变，但他补充了部分内容，说明人们认为早期干预服务导致结果被夸大。
I bit my lip, wishing he could write something else.
我咬着嘴唇，希望他能写点别的东西。
My husband, Ray, had a different reaction.
我的丈夫雷有不同的反应。
Well, he said, that was a no-brainer.
好吧，他说，这是理所当然的。
Sophie is retarded.
苏菲是个弱智。
I don't know, I said tentatively.
我不知道，我试探性地说。
I think she's pretty smart.
我认为她很聪明。
You know how I know Sophie's retarded, he asked.
你知道我怎么知道索菲是弱智，他问道。
Because when you play a memory game with her, she gets as excited about the last match when there are only two cards left as she does at the first.
因为当你和她玩记忆游戏时，当最后一场比赛只剩下两张牌时，她会像第一场比赛一样兴奋。
It's true.
这是真的。
Last month, my mom took the girls and me to see the live Sesame Street show downtown.
上个月，我妈妈带我和女儿们去市中心观看芝麻街现场表演。
When the lights went down and the characters came on stage, Sophie was beside herself, squealing, shouting, about as excited as a human being can get.
当灯光暗下，角色们登上舞台时，索菲激动不已，尖叫着，大喊着，几乎达到了人类所能达到的兴奋程度。
It was more fun to watch than Elmo.
看起来比艾莫更有趣。
My mom, Annabelle, and I all grinned at each other.
我妈妈、安娜贝尔和我都相视一笑。
And then suddenly, out of nowhere, it hit me.
然后突然间，不知从何而来，它击中了我。
I'll probably be taking Sophie to see Elmo when she's 20, and she'll be just as excited as she is today.
当索菲 20 岁时，我可能会带她去看艾莫，她会像今天一样兴奋。
I sat back, a little winded.
我往后一靠，有点气喘吁吁。
I swear I'm not making this next part up.
我发誓下一部分不是我编的。
A moment later, I looked up.
过了一会儿，我抬起头来。
And there, in the dim light, I saw the silhouette of a short, squat, adult person.
在那里，在昏暗的灯光下，我看到了一个矮矮胖胖的成年人的轮廓。
The features were unmistakable, the tiny nose, the flat head, the bent posture.
特征是显而易见的，小鼻子，扁平的头，弯曲的姿势。
The person disappeared down a row and into the crowd, but not before he or she had confirmed the future.
这个人消失在一排，消失在人群中，但在此之前他或她已经确认了未来。
Amy Silverman.
艾米·西尔弗曼。
She's the managing editor at the weekly paper Phoenix New Times in Arizona.
她是亚利桑那州周刊《凤凰城新时报》的总编辑。
Our show today was produced by Robyn Semien and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
我们今天的节目由 Robyn Semien 和我自己制作，还有 Alex Blumberg、Jane Feltes、Sarah Koenig、Lisa Pollak、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Seth Lind and Emily Youssef.
Seth Lind 和 Emily Youssef 为制作提供帮助。
Music help from Jessica Hopper.
杰西卡·霍珀的音乐帮助。
Special thanks today to Alex Kotlowitz, Julie Miller, Katie Rolnick, and Andrea Silenzi.
今天特别感谢 Alex Kotlowitz、Julie Miller、Katie Rolnick 和 Andrea Silenzi。
Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org, where this week we are starting a contest where you design our next t-shirt.
我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org，本周我们将在这里举办一场比赛，您可以设计我们的下一件 T 恤。
Details at thisamericanlife.org.
详情请访问 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who says it was just one thing that he did not know was inevitably going to be part of running any big public radio station.
[资金来源] 我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的节目进行了 WBEZ 管理监督，他说这只是他不知道的一件事，这将不可避免地成为运营任何大型公共广播电台的一部分。
Celibacy.
独身。
That was the biggest thing.
这是最重要的事情。
I didn't think about it.
我没有考虑。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。