356: The Prosecutor - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #356 | May 30, 2008 356: The Prosecutor Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 356 集 | 2008 年 5 月 30 日 356：检察官注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Remember that big terrorism case back in 2003?
序言 Ira Glass 还记得 2003 年那起重大恐怖主义案件吗？
The Detroit sleeper cell case?
底特律潜伏牢房案？
In Detroit tonight, closing arguments have ended and a jury is set to deliberate the first case against an alleged terror cell inside the US.
今晚在底特律，结案陈词已经结束，陪审团将审议美国境内第一起针对涉嫌恐怖组织的案件。
This the first terrorism case after the September 11 attacks to go to trial.
这是 9 月 11 日袭击事件后第一起受审的恐怖主义案件。
There were convictions, it was a big deal.
有信念，这是一件大事。
And then something strange happened.
然后奇怪的事情发生了。
The Justice Department-- the very institution that put these guys on trial in the first place-- went out and voluntarily asked the judge to reverse the convictions.
司法部——正是最初对这些人进行审判的机构——主动要求法官撤销定罪。
They undid their own victory, and they didn't stop there.
他们毁掉了自己的胜利，但他们并没有就此止步。
They turned around and brought criminal charges against the very guy who prosecuted their case, their own colleague.
他们转而对起诉他们案件的人、他们自己的同事提出刑事指控。
You're going to hear a lot about this prosecutor today.
今天你会听到很多关于这位检察官的事。
his name is Richard G.
他的名字叫理查德·G。
Convertino.
康维蒂诺。
He used to be a rising star at the Justice Department, with commendations from the Attorney General, the head of the FBI.
他曾经是司法部的后起之秀，受到司法部长、联邦调查局局长的嘉奖。
He sent mobsters and drug gangs and white collar criminals to prison.
他将暴徒、贩毒团伙和白领罪犯送进监狱。
Today we try to answer the question, what the hell happened?
今天我们尝试回答这个问题，到底发生了什么？
What could possibly happen that would make the US government overturn its own successful conviction and then go after its own prosecutor.
可能发生的情况会让美国政府推翻自己成功的定罪，然后追捕自己的检察官。
We're devoting our whole show today to this story.
我们今天的整个节目都在讲述这个故事。
It is This American Life from WBEC Chicago, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是 WBEC 芝加哥的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Petra Bartosiewicz has been covering terrorism prosecutions for a few years, this one included and she tells her story.
佩特拉·巴托谢维奇（Petra Bartosiewicz）多年来一直报道恐怖主义起诉，包括这一次，她讲述了自己的故事。
So what kind of prosecutor was Rick Convertino?
那么里克·康维蒂诺是一个什么样的检察官呢？
Well, that depends on who you ask.
嗯，这取决于你问的是谁。
,
,
He was relentless.
他是无情的。
He was just an excellent prosecutor.
他只是一名出色的检察官。
I really think Mr Covertino is fooling everybody, even his wife and he is a devil.
我真的认为科弗蒂诺先生在愚弄所有人，甚至包括他的妻子，而他就是一个魔鬼。
Rick was sought after.
瑞克受到追捧。
He got things done.
他把事情做好了。
He had the reputation, at least in the legal community, of someone not to be trusted.
至少在法律界，他享有不值得信任的名声。
Call me when you hear him admit to a mistake, would you, please?
当你听到他承认错误时给我打电话，好吗？
Here's some of the undisputed facts about Richard G.
以下是有关理查德·G. 的一些无可争议的事实。
Convertino.
康维蒂诺。
For the 16 years he was a federal prosecutor, he loved standing in front of juries and declaring that he represented the United States of America.
在担任联邦检察官 16 年来，他喜欢站在陪审团面前宣称自己代表美利坚合众国。
He sometimes got to the office before dawn.
他有时天亮之前就到了办公室。
He took on cases other attorneys wouldn't, stayed involved with victims and even sometimes the defendants after a case was over.
他接手了其他律师不会接手的案件，并在案件结束后继续与受害者甚至有时是被告保持联系。
But his supervisor told me that if you didn't see things Rick's way, you were a bum.
但他的主管告诉我，如果你不按照里克的方式看待事情，那你就是个流浪汉。
And woe to the prosecutor Rick caught checking Michigan football draft picks on the internet, or slacking off in the break room.
检察官里克（Rick）在互联网上查看密歇根州足球选秀权，或者在休息室偷懒，这对检察官来说是不幸的。
Rick traveled constantly for trials, even after he and his wife Valerie started having kids.
即使在他和妻子瓦莱丽开始生孩子之后，里克仍然不断地旅行进行试验。
He was away most of Val's second pregnancy, and was out working on a bank fraud trial the day she went into labor.
瓦尔第二次怀孕期间，他大部分时间都在外面，在她临产的那天，他正在外面参与一项银行欺诈案的审判。
I had to drive my oldest daughter to the babysitter, and then I drove myself to the hospital.
我不得不开车送我的大女儿去见保姆，然后我自己开车去医院。
And he didn't get to see her till she was about two days old.
直到她大约两天大时，他才见到她。
He was gone for most of her third pregnancy too.
在她第三次怀孕期间，他也几乎不在身边。
I thought he was doing the right thing.
我认为他做的是正确的事。
I kind of viewed his traveling as being similar to a military family, that the sacrifice that I was making was for my country as well, so that he could do his job.
我觉得他的旅行就像一个军人家庭，我所做的牺牲也是为了我的国家，这样他才能完成他的工作。
We thought the sacrifices we were making meant something, meant a lot.
我们认为我们所做的牺牲有意义，意义重大。
But in retrospect now, for me it's impossible not to be bitter.
但现在回想起来，对我来说，不痛苦是不可能的。
It's conceivable that everything that happened to Rick and to the Detroit sleeper cell case comes down to office politics gone terribly awry.
可以想象，发生在里克身上和底特律潜伏牢房案的一切都可以归结为办公室政治的严重失误。
The office politics at the US Department of Justice are like the office politics anywhere else, except the stakes are higher.
美国司法部的办公室政治与其他任何地方的办公室政治一样，只是风险更高。
You know, justice.
你知道，正义。
The story begins just six days after September 11.
故事要从9月11日后六天开始。
After the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, law enforcement suddenly had this new directive: Stop the next attack.
在世贸中心和五角大楼遭受袭击之后，执法部门突然有了新指令：停止下一次袭击。
Catch the terrorists before they strike again.
在恐怖分子再次袭击之前将其抓获。
Outside of Detroit, agents went out looking for number 27 on the FBI's terrorist watch list: Nabil Al-Marabh, a supposed associate of Osama Bin Laden.
在底特律郊外，特工们出动寻找联邦调查局恐怖分子观察名单上的第 27 号人物：纳比尔·阿尔·马拉布 (Nabil Al-Marabh)，他被认为是奥萨马·本·拉登 (Osama Bin Laden) 的同伙。
They ended up at Al-Marabh's last known address, a dumpy two-story house in Dearborn.
他们最终来到了阿尔马拉布最后为人所知的地址，迪尔伯恩的一栋矮胖的两层楼房子。
The front door had the the name Nabil Al-Marabh on it.
前门上写着 Nabil Al-Marabh 的名字。
An FBI agent knocked on the door and down came one of the defendants, Karim Koubriti, to answer the door.
一名联邦调查局特工敲了敲门，其中一名被告卡里姆·库布里蒂 (Karim Koubriti) 下来开门。
I just came back from work, and I was taking a shower.
我刚下班回来，正在洗澡。
Then I'm done with the shower.
然后我就洗完澡了。
I heard a knock on the door, and somebody calling Nabil, Nabil, Nabil.
我听到有人敲门，有人叫纳比尔，纳比尔，纳比尔。
So I went down to see, because they were knocking hard.
于是我下去看看，因为他们敲得很厉害。
So they asked me for my ID.
于是他们就问我要身份证。
I was in my bath stuff, so I don't have my ID on, so I was like, I'm going to go upstairs to get it.
我当时正在洗澡，所以没有带身份证，所以我想，我要上楼去拿。
As soon as I turn, they follow me.
我一转身，他们就跟着我。
During the protective sweep, they find two airport identification badges for Detroit Wayne County Airport.
在保护性扫描过程中，他们发现了底特律韦恩县机场的两个机场识别徽章。
I used to work in a company called Sky Shift.
我曾经在一家名为 Sky Shift 的公司工作。
This company provided food for airplanes.
这家公司为飞机提供食物。
We were fired because we had a car accident and we didn't go for two days, so they fired us.
我们被解雇了，因为我们出了车祸，两天没有去，所以他们解雇了我们。
But nobody told us to turn over the badges, so they were thrown on the table.
但没有人叫我们交出徽章，所以它们就被扔在桌子上了。
And then they were asked about their work history, and none of them mentioned the airport, which caused concern.
随后被问及工作经历时，他们都没有提及机场，引发关注。
And as soon as they see that Metro Airport, everything changed, like we lied to them or something like that.
一旦他们看到大都会机场，一切都变了，就像我们对他们撒了谎之类的。
And the FBI guy was real hard.
而且那个联邦调查局的家伙真的很难对付。
"Why are you lying to me?" I was like, "Lie to you about what?"
“你为什么要骗我？”我当时想，“骗你什么？”
So they were placed in handcuffs and the agents asked for permission to search the apartment.
因此，他们被戴上手铐，特工请求允许搜查公寓。
Because I just came to the country-- it was like 10 months-- I don't even speak the language.
因为我刚来这个国家——差不多有10个月了——我什至不会说当地的语言。
I don't know, I think I thought it was like a regular thing.
我不知道，我想我认为这就像一件平常的事情。
In the beginning, that's how I think about it, you know?
一开始我也是这么想的，你知道吗？
It wasn't a big deal.
这没什么大不了的。
When they pulled their guns out, I was a little upset.
当他们拔出枪时，我有点沮丧。
During the search of his room, Koubriti told the agents they'd find some fake documents there-- a fake passport, fake social security card, blank birth certificates-- which they did.
在搜查他的房间时，库布里蒂告诉特工，他们在那里发现了一些假文件——假护照、假社会保障卡、空白出生证明——他们确实这么做了。
Then out of a small closet one of the agents pulled down a black suitcase.
然后，一名特工从一个小衣柜里拿出一个黑色手提箱。
In its side pocket she found a day planner.
她在侧袋里找到了一本日程安排表。
Koubriti told the FBI that none of this stuff was his, that it belonged to an ex-roommate.
库布里蒂告诉联邦调查局，这些东西都不是他的，而是属于一位前室友的。
It all looked bad, but the day planner was by far the most disturbing thing the agents found.
一切看起来都很糟糕，但日程安排是迄今为止特工发现的最令人不安的东西。
Flipping through the pages, they saw suspicious looking sketches, simplistic drawings of what looked like airplanes flying into some kind of objects, and then what looked to be an explosion.
翻阅书页，他们看到了可疑的草图，简单的图画看起来像是飞机飞向某种物体，然后看起来像是爆炸。
Remember, this was less than a week since the collapse of the World Trade Center.
请记住，距离世贸中心倒塌还不到一周。
So Rick started to put together this very unusual kind of case.
于是，里克开始整理这个非常不寻常的案件。
He sorted through the evidence from the apartment trying to figure out, not what had happened, but instead, what was maybe going to happen.
他整理了公寓里的证据，试图弄清楚，不是发生了什么，而是可能会发生什么。
He says he showed the day planner to intelligence experts.
他说他向情报专家展示了日程安排表。
This page, as interpreted by the Air Force, was that there were three types of aircraft fighter planes-- the F 16s, the refueling planes--
根据空军的解释，该页面显示了三种类型的战斗机——F 16、加油机——
At first glance, this sketch might look like a drawing your kindergartner would do.
乍一看，这张草图可能看起来像你的幼儿园孩子会画的画。
But if you stare at it a minute or two, you begin to wonder why your kindergartner would draw the three kinds of American planes enforcing the no fly zone over northern Iraq.
但如果你盯着它看一两分钟，你就会开始想知道为什么你的幼儿园老师会画出三种在伊拉克北部执行禁飞区的美国飞机。
It's crude, but you can understand what's so troubling about it.
这很粗糙，但你可以理解它有什么令人不安的。
The words American base in Turkey are written at the top.
美国在土耳其的基地字样写在顶部。
The US does have a single air base in the Middle East, in Turkey, in the town of Incirlik.
美国在中东、土耳其的因吉尔利克镇确实有一个空军基地。
The sketch shows what looks to be three stick figure planes, each drawn slightly differently-- lined up at the end of a runway-- and a squiggly blob on the lower left that some Air Force experts said might have represented a hardened bunker.
草图显示了三架简笔画飞机，每架飞机的绘制方式略有不同——在跑道末端排成一排——左下角有一个波浪形的斑点，一些空军专家说这可能代表了一个硬化的掩体。
So when this was seen by the Office of Special Investigations in the United States Air Force, it was taken very seriously.
所以当这件事被美国空军特别调查办公室看到后，非常重视。
And their flight patterns were altered and the base was-- I believe it was temporarily shut down.
他们的飞行模式发生了改变，基地——我相信它被暂时关闭了。
Because of this crude sketch that your four-year-old daughter might be able to do, the Air Force believe that an attack was diverted.
由于你四岁的女儿可能能够画出这个粗略的草图，空军认为攻击已被转移。
While he was preparing for the trial, Rick went to turkey to see Incirlik for himself.
在准备审判的同时，里克前往土耳其亲自会见因吉尔利克。
He went on to the roof of a nearby bakery that overlooks the runway, the same vantage point the Air Force said the sketch was drawn from.
他走到附近一家面包店的屋顶上，俯瞰着跑道，空军称这幅草图就是从这个有利位置绘制的。
And there was a rickety ladder and there was a rain pipe and there was a rope.
还有一个摇摇晃晃的梯子、一根雨水管和一根绳子。
So I climbed up, I had the sketch in my hand, and I looked out across that field and I saw what was depicted on that sketch.
于是我爬了上去，手里拿着草图，我向田野望去，看到了草图上描绘的东西。
I saw those three types of planes.
我看到了这三种类型的飞机。
I saw what was referenced as the hardened bunker to the lower left.
我看到了左下角所谓的硬化掩体。
So that sketch became real to me.
所以那个草图对我来说变得真实了。
This was exactly what the Attorney General wanted prosecutors all over the country to be looking for.
这正是总检察长希望全国检察官所寻找的。
A would-be terrorist plot in the making, and then we were lucky to capture them when we did.
一场潜在的恐怖阴谋正在酝酿之中，我们很幸运地抓住了他们。
This is Jeffrey Breinholt.
我是杰弗里·布莱因霍尔特。
These days he works at a national security think tank.
如今，他在一家国家安全智囊团工作。
He's on leave from the Justice Department, where he was a top official in the terrorism and violent crime section in Washington.
他正在司法部休假，当时他是华盛顿恐怖主义和暴力犯罪部门的高级官员。
He was one of the people supervising the Detroit sleeper cell case.
他是监督底特律潜伏牢房案的人之一。
Current Justice Department officials in Washington wouldn't talk to us for this story.
华盛顿现任司法部官员不会就这个故事与我们交谈。
It was Breinholt's job to develop these brand new kinds of terrorism cases-- preemptive prosecutions-- where you charge the bad guys with the crime before they hurt anyone.
布莱因霍尔特的工作是开发这些全新类型的恐怖主义案件——先发制人的起诉——在坏人伤害任何人之前指控他们犯罪。
So here Rick's case comes along.
瑞克的案例就到这里了。
It was one of the major early cases of our testing, both our laws and our new philosophy, and we wanted to make sure it got done right.
这是我们测试的主要早期案例之一，无论是我们的法律还是我们的新理念，我们希望确保它能够正确完成。
And we had to make sure that it wasn't an embarrassment.
我们必须确保这不会令人尴尬。
This would be just about the last time Rick and his bosses in DC would see eye to eye on the case.
这几乎是里克和他在华盛顿特区的老板最后一次就此案达成一致意见。
Four men in Detroit were charged with conspiring to provide information to terrorists for a series of attacks on the US and overseas.
底特律的四名男子被指控密谋向恐怖分子提供信息，以实施对美国和海外的一系列袭击。
As the arrests began to get attention, Rick felt that the higher ups in DC were messing with his case.
随着逮捕事件开始引起人们的关注，里克觉得华盛顿特区的高层正在搅乱他的案子。
Someone inside the department leaked the details of the government's case to Fox News before the grand jury had signed off on it-- a huge no no.
在大陪审团批准之前，该部门内部有人向福克斯新闻泄露了政府案件的细节——这是一个巨大的拒绝。
Fox News correspondent Catherine Herridge reports.
福克斯新闻记者凯瑟琳·赫里奇报道。
A Michigan grand jury has handed up an indictment against four men, including Karim Koubriti, Ahmed Hannan--
密歇根州大陪审团已对四名男子提出起诉，其中包括卡里姆·库布里蒂（Karim Koubriti）、艾哈迈德·汉南（Ahmed Hannan）——
The judge on the case, Gerald Rosen, was peeved as well.
该案的法官杰拉尔德·罗森也很恼火。
He wouldn't go on the record for this story, but he talked about it at a recent terrorism forum.
他不愿公开这个故事，但他在最近的一个恐怖主义论坛上谈到了这个问题。
I saw this when I was watching the evening news and the political correspondent of one of the networks was reading the indictment before the grand jury had issued it.
我在看晚间新闻时看到了这一点，其中一个电视台的政治记者在大陪审团发布起诉书之前正在宣读起诉书。
And needless to say, that was disturbing.
不用说，这令人不安。
By the way, I also found out that I had the case when I was watching the evening news.
对了，我也是在看晚间新闻的时候发现自己有这个案子的。
They showed a picture of the indictment on the screen with my name on it.
他们在屏幕上展示了一张起诉书的照片，上面写着我的名字。
From Rick's point of view, it wasn't helpful for them to be irritating the judge before they even began.
在瑞克看来，他们在开始之前就激怒法官并没有什么帮助。
To top it off, the judge had issued a gag order on the case, meaning no one was supposed to talk about it.
最糟糕的是，法官对此案发布了禁言令，这意味着任何人都不得谈论这件事。
But then the Attorney General himself, John Ashcroft, violated it, not once, but twice during the case, saying things that didn't match the facts.
但随后司法部长约翰·阿什克罗夫特本人在案件审理过程中不止一次而是两次违反了这一规定，并发表了与事实不符的言论。
Here's Rick.
这是瑞克。
We were asked if-- I was asked if our case had any connection with September 11 or any of the individuals who are involved in September 11.
我们被问到我们的案件是否与 9 月 11 日或涉及 9 月 11 日的任何个人有任何联系。
And there was absolutely no connection that I saw, or that anyone who was working the case saw, and we said that.
我发现，或者处理此案的任何人都没有看到任何联系，我们是这么说的。
And then there was-- an artificial connection was made publicly by the Attorney General.
然后，司法部长公开人为地建立了联系。
Ashcroft did this in a press briefing a month and a half after the arrests.
阿什克罗夫特在逮捕一个半月后的新闻发布会上这样做了。
Three Michigan men suspected of having knowledge of the September 11 attacks were arrested on charges of possessing false documents.
三名涉嫌了解 9 月 11 日袭击事件的密歇根男子因持有虚假文件而被捕。
In addition to a day planner--
除了日程安排表之外——
And so I was seeing those manifestations of pure politics.
所以我看到了纯粹政治的表现。
Ashcroft had to retract the statement two days later.
两天后，阿什克罗夫特不得不撤回该声明。
The judge formally admonished him for violating the gag order, and ended up threatening him with contempt.
法官正式警告他违反禁言令，最后以蔑视威胁他。
To Rick, it felt like he and his bosses were out of step with each other, like their goals somehow weren't the same.
对于里克来说，感觉他和他的老板们步调不一致，就好像他们的目标在某种程度上并不相同。
Their goal was to disseminate information to the American people that we were kicking ass and taking names in the Department of Justice, in the war on terror.
他们的目标是向美国人民传播信息，让他们知道我们在反恐战争中在司法部表现出色并被点名。
I thought, that's unmitigated bull- [BLEEP].
我想，那是十足的公牛——[BLEEP]。
Meanwhile, Rick thought Justice Department headquarters in Washington-- what's known as Main Justice-- wasn't giving him the resources, or personnel, or logistical support he needed to prosecute this new kind of terrorism case.
与此同时，里克认为位于华盛顿的司法部总部（即所谓的主要司法部）没有为他提供起诉这种新型恐怖主义案件所需的资源、人员或后勤支持。
Sometimes they seemed clueless to him, or completely incompetent, like when he asked them for another lawyer-- a terrorism expert-- to put on his team.
有时，他们对他来说似乎毫无头绪，或者完全无能，比如当他要求他们找另一位律师——一名恐怖主义专家——加入他的团队时。
I mean, my belief was that at the terrorism and violent crime section you can get an expert on prosecuting terrorism-related cases, and I was wrong.
我的意思是，我的信念是，在恐怖主义和暴力犯罪部门，你可以找到一位起诉恐怖主义相关案件的专家，但我错了。
There were no genuine experts there in terrorism.
那里没有真正的恐怖主义专家。
You know, it was a shock to see how little those folks knew.
你知道，看到这些人知道得如此之少真是令人震惊。
The attorney was a good guy, wanted to work hard.
律师人很好，愿意努力工作。
But he was from the tax division.
但他来自税务部门。
So to me it was mind boggling.
所以对我来说这是令人难以置信的。
As far as I could tell, there were no violations of federal income tax.
据我所知，没有违反联邦所得税的情况。
To give you a sense of how personal these fights could get, here's Jeff Breinholt again, the guy at main justice who was helping formulate these new terrorism cases.
为了让您了解这些斗争可能变得多么个人化，杰夫·布莱因霍尔特（Jeff Breinholt）又来了，他是帮助制定这些新的恐怖主义案件的首席法官。
If he's using a tax attorney as a way to describe somebody who is not prepared, he's basically condemning me as well, because that's what I am.
如果他用税务律师来形容一个没有做好准备的人，那么他基本上也是在谴责我，因为我就是这样的人。
And most of the people who we brought in to the counter-terrorism business after 9/11 were people who were very specialized in financial techniques.
9/11之后，我们引入反恐业务的大多数人都是非常精通金融技术的人。
That was exactly what this case needed, I think.
我认为这正是本案所需要的。
That response is astonishing to me.
这个反应令我惊讶。
If the then-- I think-- acting chief of the terrorism and violent crime section doesn't understand a non financial terrorism related case, then I think that speaks for itself.
我认为，如果当时的恐怖主义和暴力犯罪部门代理负责人不理解与非金融恐怖主义相关的案件，那么我认为这是不言而喻的。
There were many squabbles like this, over things that were both petty and sort of fundamental.
像这样的争吵有很多，都是为了一些鸡毛蒜皮的小事。
They couldn't even agree on what kind of help was helpful.
他们甚至无法就什么样的帮助有帮助达成一致。
And really, since it was a new kind of prosecution strategy, nobody could know for sure.
事实上，由于这是一种新的起诉策略，没有人能确定。
There's a class of prosecutor that other federal prosecutors sometimes call true believers.
有一种检察官有时被其他联邦检察官称为真正的信徒。
For them everything is black and white.
对于他们来说，一切都是黑白的。
One described himself to a researcher this way: "We believe in the cause of justice.
其中一位向研究人员这样描述自己：“我们相信正义事业。
People look down on us for our enthusiasm, but we leave no stone unturned." That's like Rick.
人们因为我们的热情而看不起我们，但我们想尽一切办法。”这就像瑞克.
Anyone getting in the way of his case was an enemy of the cause.
任何妨碍他案件的人都是这项事业的敌人。
And Washington was getting in his way.
华盛顿正在妨碍他。
Even the wording of the indictment was reason for a fight.
甚至起诉书的措辞也是争斗的理由。
An indictment lists the formal charges in a case.
起诉书列出了案件的正式指控。
It's what the grand jury votes on.
这是大陪审团投票决定的。
But Rick says Main Justice tried to sensationalize the indictment by adding references to Al Qaeda documents found in training camps in Afghanistan, stuff he says had nothing to do with his case.
但里克表示，大法官试图通过添加在阿富汗训练营中发现的基地组织文件来炒作起诉书，但他说这些文件与他的案件无关。
It was as if they'd forgotten the rules of evidence.
就好像他们忘记了证据规则。
He felt he was being micromanaged by bureaucrats he was coming to respect less and less.
他觉得自己受到了那些他越来越不尊重的官僚的微观管理。
My dad always used to say never trust a man whose ass is wider than his shoulders, and that's good advice.
我父亲总是说永远不要相信一个屁股比肩膀宽的人，这是个好建议。
It is.
这是。
It's good advice.
这是个好建议。
And it was like, you know, Jesus Christ, what's the plan here?
就像，你知道，天哪，这里有什么计划？
In the end, Washington demanded changes to the indictment that the Detroit office didn't make, so Main Justice felt Rick wasn't following orders.
最终，华盛顿要求修改底特律办公室没有提出的起诉书，因此首席法官认为里克没有遵守命令。
Rick felt Main Justice was meddling.
里克觉得大法官在干涉。
Things got so tense that a couple of senior officials from Washington, including the new chief of the entire counter-terrorism section-- a guy named Barry Sabin-- flew out to Michigan for a face-to-face meeting about the case.
事情变得如此紧张，以至于华盛顿的几位高级官员，包括整个反恐部门的新任负责人——一个名叫巴里·萨宾的人——飞往密歇根州就该案召开了一次面对面会议。
And that's where the relationship went from bad to much worse.
这就是关系变得更加糟糕的地方。
Here's Rick.
这是瑞克。
This was not a pleasant meeting.
这不是一次愉快的会面。
It was a constant in your face challenge to why we did things the way we did them.
这是一个持续不断的挑战，问我们为什么要这样做。
And after answering the question regarding the particular way a count was charged a number of times-- I thought-- he asked me again, well, where did you get this from.
在多次回答有关计数收费的特定方式的问题之后——我想——他又问我，好吧，你从哪里得到这个。
Where did you get this from.
你从哪里得到这个。
And in a fit of exasperation, in a not very prudent manner, I told him that I pulled it out of my ass.
在一阵愤怒中，我以一种不太谨慎的方式告诉他，我把它从我的屁股里拉出来了。
And he looked at the US Attorney, who was devoid of words at the time, and then the US Attorney looked at me and told me that was unprofessional, which I agreed it was.
他看着美国检察官，当时他一言不发，然后美国检察官看着我，告诉我这是不专业的，我也同意。
And during the course of the conversation, again, I again imprudently told him that I would like five minutes alone with him, preferably in an alley.
在谈话过程中，我再次轻率地告诉他，我想和他单独呆五分钟，最好是在小巷里。
Which again didn't go over too big.
这又没有太大。
Bear in mind, Barry Sabin at the time is the chief of counter-terrorism section, so that's no small thing.
请记住，巴里·萨宾当时是反恐部门的负责人，所以这不是一件小事。
Again, Jeff Breinholt.
又是杰夫·布莱因霍尔特。
Jeffrey Breinholt It was not a good way to be in dealing with your headquarters component, is to make them feel unwelcome.
Jeffrey Breinholt：与总部部门打交道并不是一个好方法，而是让他们感到不受欢迎。
It's a very unfortunate thing when things get to that point, but I think there was some sense of the time that this case is something we should not have approved.
当事情发展到这个地步时，这是一件非常不幸的事情，但我认为当时有某种感觉，这个案子是我们不应该批准的。
Because of the personal issues or because of the substance of the case?
是因为个人问题还是因为案件的实质内容？
Personal issues.
个人问题。
The trust issue is whether or not this case would be handled the way we wanted it to be.
信任问题是这个案子是否会按照我们希望的方式处理。
On March 18, 2003, exactly a year and a half after the arrests, and the same day US forces started bombing Iraq, jury selection began.
2003 年 3 月 18 日，即逮捕事件整整一年半之后，也就是美军开始轰炸伊拉克的同一天，陪审团遴选工作开始了。
By this time a fourth defendant, the alleged ringleader of the cell, had been added to the case.
此时，第四名被告，即所谓的该组织的头目，已被纳入此案。
The evidence was almost all circumstantial.
证据几乎都是间接的。
Things like the day planner with the suspicious sketches.
比如带有可疑草图的日程安排表。
But there was a lot of it, and each scrap was aggressively contested.
但其中的内容很多，而且每一个片段都引起了激烈的争论。
It wasn't one of those trials where one side seemed clearly in the right and the other in the wrong.
这并不是一场看起来明显是对的，而另一方是错的试验。
Both sides seemed credible, which was especially strange, because often their explanations for what the evidence meant, or where it came from, couldn't even be reconciled.
双方似乎都是可信的，这尤其奇怪，因为他们对证据的含义或证据来源的解释常常甚至无法调和。
For instance, there was this homemade videotape found in the apartment, which the government claimed was shot by would-be terrorists casing Las Vegas and Disneyland for places to attack.
例如，在公寓里发现了这个自制的录像带，政府声称这是潜在的恐怖分子拍摄的，他们正在拉斯维加斯和迪士尼乐园进行袭击。
The defense claimed the tape was shot by some Tunisian students goofing around on holiday.
辩方声称该录像带是由一些在假期闲逛的突尼斯学生拍摄的。
In the Disneyland part, there's this shot of a pond with some ducks swimming along.
在迪士尼乐园部分，有一张池塘的照片，有一些鸭子在游泳。
Someone sings a little song.
有人唱一首小歌。
According to Rick's translator, the words to the song were something like:
根据里克的翻译，这首歌的歌词是这样的：
[BLEEP] them.
[哔]他们。
[BLEEP] the Americans.
[哔]美国人。
Kill them and throw them there.
杀掉他们然后把他们扔到那里。
Bury them there.
把他们埋在那里。
According to the defendant's lawyer Rick Helfrick:
被告律师里克·赫尔弗里克 (Rick Helfrick) 表示：
So it was either kill the Americans or here ducky, ducky.
所以要么杀了美国人，要么就在这里鸭鸭鸭。
And so on through the trial.
等等通过试用。
The trial went on for nine weeks, and in the end, the jury convicted two of the defendants-- Koubriti and the accused ringleader-- of the most serious charge, material support to terrorists.
审判持续了九周，最终陪审团判定两名被告——库布里蒂和被指控的头目——犯有最严重的罪名，即向恐怖分子提供物质支持。
A third guy they found guilty of document fraud, and the fourth, they decided was innocent.
他们认定第三个犯有文件欺诈罪，第四个则被认为是无辜的。
All in all, a good day for the justice department.
总而言之，对于司法部门来说，这是美好的一天。
Attorney General Ashcroft announced the verdict, saying every victory in the courtroom brings us closer to our ultimate goal-- victory in the war on terrorism.
司法部长阿什克罗夫特宣布了判决，他说法庭上的每一次胜利都让我们更接近我们的最终目标——反恐战争的胜利。
You'd think Rick would be the toast of the justice department.
你可能会认为瑞克会成为司法部门的焦点。
He'd worked incredibly hard on this case for years, and finally, he'd won it for the government.
多年来，他在这个案子上付出了难以置信的努力，最终，他为政府赢得了这场官司。
The first jury convictions in a post 9/11 terrorism trial.
9/11 恐怖主义审判后陪审团首次定罪。
Instead, he got a talking to from the top guy in Detroit, the US Attorney.
相反，他得到了底特律最高层美国检察官的谈话。
Here's Rick.
这是瑞克。
He said to me, "I've been ordered to reprimand you." I said, by whom?
他对我说：“我奉命训斥你。”我说，谁的？
He said Washington.
他说华盛顿。
For what?
为了什么？
For the lack of communication between you and Washington.
因为你和华盛顿之间缺乏沟通。
And I said OK.
我说好的。
And he said "OK, I can do it in a number of ways." I said all right.
他说：“好吧，我可以通过多种方式做到这一点。”我说好吧。
And he said, "But I'm going to verbally reprimand you.
他说：“但是我要口头谴责你。
I'm verbally reprimanding you." I said, OK.
我口头上训斥你。”我说，好吧。
Thank you.
谢谢。
And went on my way.
然后继续我的路。
So there were a lot of ruffled feathers after the case.
因此，案件发生后，引起了很多不满。
And at that point in time, when things were just starting to calm down, this contact with the senator comes up.
就在那时，当事情刚刚开始平静下来时，与参议员的接触就出现了。
This contact with the senator managed to re-ruffle every feather that had been smoothed, because it wasn't just any senator.
与参议员的这次接触成功地重新激怒了所有已经被抚平的羽毛，因为这不仅仅是任何一位参议员。
It was Charles Grassley, republican from Iowa.
他是来自爱荷华州的共和党人查尔斯·格拉斯利 (Charles Grassley)。
Let's just say if the Justice Department had its own deck of most wanted cards depicting Capitol Hill enemies, this guy's face would have been on it.
这么说吧，如果司法部有一套自己的描绘国会山敌人的通缉牌，那么这个家伙的脸就会出现在上面。
Grassley was known, and still is, as a champion of government whistle blowers, and he'd been scrapping with the Justice Department for many years.
格拉斯利作为政府举报者的拥护者而闻名，现在仍然如此，多年来他一直与司法部发生争执。
When Rick got the call from Grassley's staffers, Grassley was four months into yet another nasty fight.
当里克接到格拉斯利员工的电话时，格拉斯利已经陷入另一场激烈的争斗四个月了。
Because the DOJ wouldn't allow a couple of FBI employees to talk freely to Congress, Grassley was blocking nominations to some top positions inside Justice.
由于司法部不允许几位联邦调查局雇员与国会自由交谈，格拉斯利阻止了司法部内部一些高级职位的提名。
But Rick knew none of this, and anyway, that's not why the Grassley staffers had called him.
但里克对此一无所知，而且无论如何，这也不是格拉斯利工作人员给他打电话的原因。
They just wanted to talk about the sleeper cell case, for information for a hearing they were putting together about terrorism and document fraud for the Senate Finance Committee, which Grassley chaired.
他们只是想谈论潜伏牢房案，为格拉斯利担任主席的参议院财政委员会准备的有关恐怖主义和文件欺诈的听证会提供信息。
After talking to Rick for a bit, they asked him to testify at the hearing.
与里克交谈了一会儿后，他们要求他在听证会上作证。
And while all this might sound perfectly innocent to you and me, the idea that Rick might cooperate with the Justice Department's arch enemy, even on the topic as neutral as document fraud, really irritated Rick's bosses.
虽然这一切对你我来说可能听起来完全无辜，但瑞克可能与司法部的死敌合作的想法，即使是在文件欺诈这样中性的话题上，也确实激怒了瑞克的老板。
He got a call from a senior Justice official who told him these requests are supposed to go through Main Justice in Washington.
他接到一位高级司法官员的电话，告诉他这些请求应该通过华盛顿的主要司法部门。
And then he told me, Grassley's no friend of ours, and he used some choice words.
然后他告诉我，格拉斯利不是我们的朋友，他用了一些尖酸刻薄的话。
And I think I said, "whatever."
我想我说的是“无论如何”。
"Whatever" wasn't going to cut it.
“随便”并不能解决问题。
There was a strict protocol to this stuff, and Rick wasn't following it.
这件事有严格的规定，但瑞克没有遵守。
Prosecutors in his position simply do not testify before Congress.
担任他职务的检察官根本不会在国会作证。
That was the job with the bigger guns, the US attorneys themselves, or the top guys in DC.
这是由更大的枪手、美国律师本身或华盛顿特区的高层人士负责的工作。
Misreading the politics of this situation, ignoring the office politics completely, was about to have much more serious consequences for Rick than he understood.
误读这种情况的政治因素，完全忽视办公室政治，将给里克带来比他想象的更严重的后果。
Rick's supervisor in Detroit, Keith Corbett, called him.
里克在底特律的主管基思·科贝特给他打电话。
He told me that whatever I did really stoked the fires, and that they were talking about firing me.
他告诉我，无论我做什么，都会火上浇油，他们正在讨论解雇我。
That they believed that I was off the reservation.
他们认为我不在保留范围内。
Off the reservation.
取消预订。
I said, Jesus Christ, I helped build the damn reservation, and now I'm off it?
我说，天哪，我帮助建立了该死的保留地，现在我就离开了？
Well, how'd I get off it?
嗯，我怎么摆脱它？
Because they kicked me off it.
因为他们把我踢掉了。
Two days later, Rick was subpoenaed to testify before congress.
两天后，里克被传唤到国会作证。
He couldn't very well ignore a subpoena, but on the other hand, he could maybe fight the subpoena.
他不能很好地忽视传票，但另一方面，他也许可以对抗传票。
The Justice Department had done that in the past.
司法部过去就这么做过。
Rick called Keith Corbett for guidance.
里克打电话给基思·科贝特寻求指导。
They don't talk to each other any more, but at the time, they were still friends.
他们不再说话，但当时他们仍然是朋友。
Here's Keith.
这是基思。
And I said Rick, why don't you come in the office on Monday morning, and we'll call Main Justice, and we'll see how we're going to handle this.
我说里克，你为什么不在周一早上来办公室，我们会打电话给首席法官，我们会看看如何处理这件事。
Rick said , I can't do that.
瑞克说，我不能这么做。
I've got to catch a plane.
我得赶飞机。
I said Rick, you don't have to catch a plane.
我说里克，你不必赶飞机。
I mean, you're supposed to testify on Tuesday afternoon.
我的意思是，你应该在周二下午出庭作证。
And I said come in in the morning.
我说早上进来。
We'll figure out what the Department wants you to do.
我们会弄清楚部门希望你做什么。
He said, I can't do that; I've got to take the first flight out.
他说，我不能这么做；我得搭第一趟航班出去。
I said, I don't understand that.
我说，我不明白。
I think it was, you know, it was putting your thumb in everybody's eye.
我认为，你知道，这是把你的拇指放在每个人的眼睛里。
I mean, the Department, the US Attorney here.
我的意思是，司法部，这里是美国检察官。
If you know you're not supposed to do something and you go ahead and do it because you want to do it, to me it's like, "I don't know what they're so upset about." Well, you ought to know what they're upset about.
如果你知道你不应该做某事，但你因为想做而继续去做，对我来说就像是，“我不知道他们为什么这么生气。”嗯，你应该知道他们在生气什么。
So I think that that was a significant event, in terms of the perception by the administration as to where Rick was and whether he was totally out of control, and just going off on his own tangent.
因此，我认为这是一个重大事件，就政府对里克所在位置以及他是否完全失控、离题的看法而言。
The truth of it was Rick wanted to testify.
事实真相是里克想作证。
He'd won this big case and all he got was a reprimand.
这场大案子他赢了，得到的只是一顿训斥。
So he flew to Washington.
于是他飞往华盛顿。
The night before the hearing, he had a private meeting with Senator Grassley.
听证会前一天晚上，他与格拉斯利参议员进行了私人会面。
The way Rick tells it, it was supposed to be just a quick introduction, a pro forma courtesy before the next day's hearing.
按照里克的说法，这应该只是一个简短的介绍，是第二天听证会之前的形式礼貌。
But almost immediately Rick found himself talking about all the things his bosses didn't want him talking about-- the in-fighting, the mismanagement-- to the very man they didn't want him talking to.
但几乎立刻，里克就发现自己正在向老板们不希望他谈论的所有事情——内讧、管理不善——谈论的对象正是他们不想让他谈论的人。
He shook my hand and then asked me a question or two.
他握了握我的手，然后问了我一两个问题。
And when I hesitated, I think he understood that there was more there.
当我犹豫时，我想他明白还有更多。
So what did you say to him?
那你对他说了什么？
Rick Convertino I told him that-- when he asked me did you have all the resources you needed, and I said absolutely no, we did not.
里克·康维迪诺（Rick Convertino）我告诉他——当他问我你有你需要的所有资源时，我说绝对没有，我们没有。
Did you have the manpower you needed?
你有你需要的人力吗？
No we did not.
不，我们没有。
He was genuinely stunned, at least that was my impression.
他真的很震惊，至少我是这么印象的。
The meeting ended up going on for a very long time, and I think he cancelled what he had at 5:15, and he asked me some pointed questions regarding the way the trial proceeded.
会议持续了很长时间，我认为他取消了 5 点 15 分的会议，并问了我一些有关审判进行方式的尖锐问题。
Mr. Convertino, we'll begin with your testimony.
康维蒂诺先生，我们将从您的证词开始。
First I want to--
首先我想——
In the hearing room the next morning, a bunch of people from Justice sat themselves down behind Rick, within earshot.
第二天早上，在听证室里，司法部的一群人坐在里克身后，在听得见的范围内。
The move, he says, was meant to throw him off.
他说，此举是为了让他失望。
Sir, this case started-- Senator Charles Grassley Make sure your microphone's on, please.
先生，此案开始了——参议员查尔斯·格拉斯利（Charles Grassley） 请确保您的麦克风已打开。
Yes sir.
是的，先生。
Senator Charles Grassley And maybe--
参议员查尔斯·格拉斯利也许——
And maybe just a little bit closer.
也许只是更近一点。
Yes, go ahead.
是的，继续吧。
Thank you Mr. Chairman, and good morning, sir.
谢谢主席先生，早上好，先生。
Sir, this case started in--
先生，这个案子开始于——
During his testimony, Rick didn't utter one word from his conversation the day before with Grassley.
在作证期间，里克没有说出前一天与格拉斯利谈话中的任何一句话。
He says he never had any intention of complaining publicly, and he told Grassley so.
他说他从来没有打算公开抱怨，他也是这么告诉格拉斯利的。
Instead he just talked about the evidence in the case.
相反，他只是谈论了案件中的证据。
Stuff like this.
像这样的东西。
They talked about acquiring shoulder-held missiles to shoot down airplanes.
他们谈到购买肩扛式导弹来击落飞机。
And this.
还有这个。
Rick Convertino They referred to Las Vegas, Mr Chairman, as the city of Satan.
里克·康维迪诺 主席先生，他们将拉斯维加斯称为撒旦之城。
And this.
还有这个。
Rick Convertino Oh, Allah, kill them all.
里克·康维迪诺 哦，阿拉，把他们都杀了。
Don't give them any-- don't leave them any alive, oh Allah.
不要给他们任何东西——不要让他们活着，哦阿拉。
Be without them, whoever believes--
远离他们，无论谁相信——
If anything, it was actually what Grassley said that got Rick into more hot water.
如果说有什么不同的话，那就是格拉斯利所说的话让里克陷入了更多的困境。
Mr. Convertino, I think you are a model public servant, and as far as I'm concerned, you should be hailed as a hero.
康维蒂诺先生，我认为您是模范公务员，在我看来，您应该被誉为英雄。
I could hear people behind me commenting.
我能听到身后的人在评论。
So I cringed when he said it, myself, because I knew that any time-- the more that type of language was being used, the worse it was going to be for me when I got back to Detroit.
所以当他说这句话时，我自己都感到畏缩，因为我知道任何时候——这种语言使用得越多，当我回到底特律时，情况就会变得越糟糕。
Unfortunately for Rick, there was a lot more of that talk, particularly after Grassley let fly this theatrical flourish.
对于里克来说不幸的是，这样的谈话还有很多，尤其是在格拉斯利放出了这种戏剧性的表演之后。
I also want to note that federal law prohibits any retaliation or any discrimination against any person who testifies to the Congress, 18 USC Section 1505.
我还想指出，联邦法律禁止对向国会作证的任何人进行任何报复或任何歧视，《美国法典》第 18 篇第 1505 条。
I certainly don't expect there to be repercussions, because Mr. Convertino is here to explain how Justice Department is winning the war on terrorism.
我当然不希望产生任何影响，因为康维蒂诺先生来这里是为了解释司法部如何赢得反恐战争。
What's strange is that that's exactly true.
奇怪的是，这确实是事实。
Nobody was publicly embarrassed.
没有人在公开场合感到尴尬。
The Justice Department itself couldn't have scripted it better.
司法部本身编写的脚本再好不过了。
Rick even threw in an Al Qaeda reference.
里克甚至还提到了基地组织。
And Grassley didn't launch any investigation.
格拉斯利没有发起任何调查。
But Rick's testimony violated the way things are done at the Justice Department.
但里克的证词违反了司法部的行事方式。
So just by breaching protocol in this flagrant way, he'd gone from being an irritant to an outright traitor.
因此，仅仅以这种公然违反协议的方式，他就从一个令人讨厌的人变成了一个彻头彻尾的叛徒。
According to Rick, it wasn't just because he'd testified.
据里克说，这不仅仅是因为他作证了。
It was because his bosses now became convinced that he'd been tattling to Grassley all through the case, complaining secretly for months about how Justice had mishandled the whole thing.
这是因为他的老板们现在确信他在整个案件中一直在向格拉斯利告密，几个月来一直在秘密抱怨正义对整个事件的处理不当。
Rick couldn't persuade them it wasn't true.
瑞克无法说服他们这不是真的。
When I came back to the Detroit, it was as if I shot everyone's dog in the office.
当我回到底特律时，就好像我在办公室里射杀了每个人的狗。
I was a pariah, and it was clear to me that their motivations now were to punish me.
我是一个贱民，我很清楚他们现在的动机是为了惩罚我。
Six days after Rick got home, Grassley wrote a formal letter to John Ashcroft and the US attorney in Detroit, the first of a slew of letters warning them not to retaliate against Rick for his testimony.
里克回家六天后，格拉斯利给约翰·阿什克罗夫特和底特律的美国检察官写了一封正式信，这是一系列警告他们不要对里克的证词进行报复的信中的第一封。
That very same day, Rick says the campaign of retaliation began.
就在同一天，里克说报复行动开始了。
His bosses told him he was being reassigned to be a duty AUSA, a position they'd created just for him.
他的老板告诉他，他将被重新分配到 AUSA 值班，这是他们专门为他设立的职位。
It was as close as they could come to making him a secretary.
他们已经非常接近任命他为秘书了。
And that's not all.
这还不是全部。
They told him they'd be reviewing every case he'd ever prosecuted, and they began interviewing judges and other court officials, asking them questions like "Has Convertino ever lied to you?"
他们告诉他，他们将审查他起诉过的每一个案件，并开始采访法官和其他法庭官员，问他们诸如“康维蒂诺曾经对你撒过谎吗？”之类的问题。
I went to court one time after that.
此后我还上过一次法庭。
And there was a defense attorney who I had known for some time.
还有一位我认识有一段时间的辩护律师。
I was always on on friendly terms with him.
我和他一直保持着友好的关系。
he told me that "There's nothing worse than a crooked prosecutor." Those were the only words he said to me.
他告诉我“没有什么比不诚实的检察官更糟糕的了。”这是他对我说的唯一一句话。
I mean, crooked was certainly never an adjective that was applied to me in anything I did.
我的意思是，在我所做的任何事情中，“弯曲”绝对不是一个形容词。
It was abundantly clear to me that I wasn't going to go back in there and ever stand up before a jury and say, "My name is Rick Convertino, and I represent the United States of America."
我非常清楚，我不会回到那里并在陪审团面前站起来说：“我的名字是里克·康维蒂诺，我代表美利坚合众国。”
Coming up, a prosecutor experiences what it is like to be the defendant, with all the power of the federal government like a huge cannon, now pointed at him.
接下来，检察官体验了作为被告的感觉，联邦政府的所有权力就像一门巨大的大炮，现在对准了他。
That's in a minute From Chicago Public Radio, and Public Radio international, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
Act Two: Retaliation Ira Glass It's This American Life.
第二幕：报复艾拉·格拉斯这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, if you're just tuning in, the very strange story of the first terrorism case that came after September 11.
今天，如果您正在收听我们的节目，请收听 9 月 11 日之后发生的第一起恐怖主义案件的非常奇怪的故事。
When Petra Bartosiewicz left off her story before the break, it was fall of 2003.
当 Petra Bartosiewicz 在休息前结束她的故事时，那是 2003 年秋天。
The government had just started its first investigations into the case's prosecutor, Rick Convertino.
政府刚刚开始对该案检察官里克·康维蒂诺(Rick Convertino)进行首次调查。
Four months later, someone inside the Department of Justice leaked details of an internal inquiry into Rick's conduct.
四个月后，司法部内部有人泄露了对里克行为进行内部调查的细节。
The Detroit Free Press published a story that included quotes from anonymous Justice officials, and from defense attorneys who knew Rick from the courtroom.
底特律自由报发表了一篇报道，其中引用了匿名司法官员和在法庭上认识里克的辩护律师的言论。
That was a front page story in January 17, which was the worst day of my life.
这是 1 月 17 日的头版报道，那是我一生中最糟糕的一天。
"Possible misconduct." "Ethical violations." "He believes in trial by ambush." "Rogue prosecutor." That's just some of the stuff printed about Rick.
“可能存在不当行为。” “违反道德。” “他相信伏击审判。” “流氓检察官。”这只是一些有关瑞克的印刷品。
The article said investigators were looking into whether he'd broken the rules in the sleeper cell case, and whether he'd withheld evidence during the trial.
文章称，调查人员正在调查他是否违反了卧铺牢房案件的规则，以及他是否在审判期间隐瞒了证据。
I mean, I don't know how to-- what words to describe what it did.
我的意思是，我不知道如何——用什么词来描述它做了什么。
It ruined the case.
结果就毁了这个案子。
Ruined me, professionally.
毁了我，职业生涯。
We used my daughter's senior year in high school, her tuition, and pooled some money together, and sued the bastards.
我们用我女儿高中四年级的学费，凑了一些钱，起诉了那些混蛋。
By bastards, he meant former Attorney General John Ashcroft, along with a couple of other Department officials.
他所说的私生子是指前司法部长约翰·阿什克罗夫特以及其他几位司法部官员。
He sued because the Detroit Free Press story was based on a confidential investigation that clearly was leaked from inside the Justice Department.
他提起诉讼，因为《底特律自由报》的报道是基于一项显然是从司法部内部泄露的机密调查。
It's actually against the law to leak information like that.
这样泄露信息实际上是违法的。
What upset Rick the most in the article was not something written about him, but something that every single person I spoke to, even inside the Justice Department, agrees is pretty awful.
文章中最让里克感到不安的不是关于他的内容，而是我采访过的每个人，甚至是司法部内部的人，都同意这非常糟糕。
It has to do with a confidential informant named Marwan Farhat, who Rick enlisted to do translation work for the terrorism prosecution.
这与一位名叫马尔万·法哈特 (Marwan Farhat) 的机密线人有关，里克招募他为恐怖主义起诉做翻译工作。
Here's Stephen Kohn, the lawyer Rick hired to represent him in his civil lawsuit.
这是史蒂芬·科恩（Stephen Kohn），里克聘请的律师在民事诉讼中代表他。
In Rick Convertino's case, they leaked the name of one of his critical informants, a person who was of Middle Eastern descent, currently under cover in counter-- in terrorism related and criminal related investigations.
在里克·康维迪诺（Rick Convertino）的案件中，他们泄露了他的一名关键线人的名字，该线人有中东血统，目前正在从事反恐相关和刑事相关调查。
He's actually under cover, and they put his name into the newspapers.
他实际上处于隐蔽状态，他们把他的名字登在了报纸上。
And Rick, when he learned this, flipped out, had to rush over and literally had to get him from his house to save his life, and work with the FBI to put him on a plane back to a Middle Eastern nation.
当瑞克得知此事后，他大发雷霆，不得不冲过去，实际上不得不把他从家里救出来以挽救他的生命，并与联邦调查局合作将他送上返回中东国家的飞机。
"Thank you for your service to the United States." Those people should be in prison, who did that.
“感谢你们为美国做出的贡献。”那些人应该被关进监狱，谁干的。
If I did it, I'd go to jail.
如果我这么做了，我就会进监狱。
Look what they did to try to find in the Valerie Plame thing.
看看他们做了什么，试图从瓦莱丽·普莱姆的事情中找到答案。
Rick's lawsuit didn't stop with the leak to the Detroit Free Press.
里克的诉讼并没有随着向底特律自由报的泄密而停止。
He went on to accuse the Justice Department of mismanaging the war on terror.
他接着指责司法部对反恐战争管理不善。
All the stuff Rick's bosses didn't want him talking to Grassley about was now laid out in a public lawsuit.
里克的老板不希望他与格拉斯利谈论的所有事情现在都在公开诉讼中列出。
What's more, he'd hired Kohn, who happens to run the National Whistleblowers Center.
更重要的是，他聘请了科恩，而科恩恰好是国家举报人中心的负责人。
In other words, an organization in the same camp as the Justice Department's other constant critic, Senator Charles Grassley.
换句话说，该组织与司法部的另一位长期批评者、参议员查尔斯·格拉斯利属于同一阵营。
Rick was now-- publicly-- the enemy of his former bosses.
里克现在在公开场合是他前任老板的敌人。
The Justice Department reacted to the lawsuit the way you might expect.
司法部对这起诉讼的反应正如你所期望的那样。
They did what they do best: Opened more investigations.
他们做了他们最擅长的事情：开展更多调查。
Here's Rick.
这是瑞克。
There was an investigation from the Executive Office of US Attorneys that was launched, where an attorney from Buffalo, New York, and an attorney from Manhattan were teamed together to come and investigate me.
美国检察官执行办公室发起了一项调查，纽约州布法罗的一名律师和曼哈顿的一名律师联手来调查我。
There were investigations by my office of all of my cases.
我的办公室对我的所有案件进行了调查。
There were investigations by the Public Integrity Section.
公共诚信部门对此进行了调查。
There were investigations by the Office of Professional Responsibility.
职业责任办公室对此进行了调查。
There were investigations by the Office of Inspector General.
监察长办公室对此进行了调查。
They subpoenaed my law school records, my college records, my high school records.
他们传唤了我的法学院记录、大学记录、高中记录。
My high school records.
我的高中记录。
They subpoenaed my bank records, my phone records.
他们传唤了我的银行记录和电话记录。
They talked to over 100 people.
他们与 100 多人进行了交谈。
Rick is sure the department expended more money and more manpower on investigating him than they did on the original sleeper cell case.
里克确信，与最初的潜伏牢房案件相比，该部门在调查他身上花费了更多的资金和人力。
Then in December of 2003, six months after the verdict in the sleeper cell case, a very problematic letter surfaced.
然后在 2003 年 12 月，即潜伏牢房案判决六个月后，一封非常有问题的信件浮出水面。
And this was the moment when all the investigations into Rick started to eat away at the substance of the sleeper cell case itself.
就在此时，对瑞克的所有调查开始侵蚀潜伏细胞案本身的实质内容。
The letter had to do with the government's key witness at the trial, a guy named Youssef Hmimmsa who had lived with the defendants, and who said that they were planning violent attacks, that they really were a sleeper cell.
这封信与审判中政府的关键证人有关，他是一个名叫优素福·赫米姆萨（Youssef Hmimmsa）的人，他曾与被告住在一起，他说他们正在计划暴力袭击，他们实际上是一个潜伏的组织。
This letter turned out to be the thread that once pulled, unravelled the entire terrorism case.
这封信成为了整个恐怖案件的线索。
It was big news.
这是个大新闻。
At issue, a letter the prosecution did not turn over to the defense until last month, well after the trial.
有争议的是，控方直到上个月审判结束后才将一封信移交给辩方。
It was written by an imprisoned drug gang leader who says that he was in the jail cell next to Hmimmsa.
这封信是由一名被监禁的贩毒团伙头目写的，他说自己就在赫米姆萨旁边的牢房里。
In it, the gang leader claims that Hmimmsa told him that he quote, "Lied to the FBI how he fooled the Secret Service agent on his case." Sources say Justice officials are very concerned about what the judge will decide, and say they admit the prosecution made a mistake.
在其中，该团伙头目声称赫米姆萨告诉他，他引用了“他对联邦调查局撒谎，如何在他的案件上愚弄特勤局特工”。消息人士称，司法官员非常关心法官的决定，并表示他们承认检方犯了错误。
The judge ordered a hearing.
法官下令举行听证会。
Rick told him he knew about the letter, but that he and his supervisor Keith Corbett discussed it, and Keith said he didn't need to turn it over.
里克告诉他，他知道这封信，但他和他的主管基思·科贝特讨论过这件事，基思说他不需要把它交出来。
"The only thing I can tell you judge, is it slipped through the cracks," Rick said.
“我唯一能告诉你的是，它是从裂缝中溜走的，”里克说。
Then two of Rick's bosses began contradicting each other about who'd ordered whom to do what.
然后，里克的两个老板开始在谁命令谁做什么的问题上互相矛盾。
Basically, it was two people from the Justice Department calling each other liars in open court.
基本上，这是司法部的两个人在公开法庭上互相称对方是骗子。
The judge was so disgusted by the withheld evidence that he ordered the government to do a full review of all the evidence in the case.
法官对扣留的证据感到非常反感，因此命令政府对案件中的所有证据进行全面审查。
"This is the most unpleasant task that I've had an almost 14 years as a judge," he said.
“这是我担任法官近 14 年来最不愉快的任务，”他说。
The Justice Department appointed a prosecutor named Craig Morford to lead the review.
司法部任命了一位名叫克雷格·莫福德的检察官来领导审查。
When it was released, the Morford Report was 60 pages long, a litany of accusations against Rick.
莫福德报告发布时长达 60 页，内容是对瑞克的一连串指控。
That he misrepresented the intelligence.
他歪曲了情报。
That he shopped for expert opinions that bolstered his theory.
他寻求专家意见来支持他的理论。
And most damningly, that he simply didn't turn over evidence that would have been favorable to the defense, breaking the most basic rule prosecutorial conduct.
最可恶的是，他根本没有提供对辩方有利的证据，违反了最基本的检察行为规则。
With the Morford Report, it was as if the government switched sides, and overnight started working for the defense, questioning the veracity of every major piece of evidence in the case.
有了《莫福德报告》，政府就好像转变了立场，连夜开始为辩方工作，质疑该案中每一项主要证据的真实性。
The day it was filed the defense attorneys were actually seen outside the courthouse, giving each other high fives.
提交申请的当天，辩护律师实际上出现在法院外，互相击掌。
They felt vindicated.
他们觉得自己被证明是正确的。
They thought Rick had been holding back evidence all through the trial.
他们认为里克在整个审判过程中一直隐瞒证据。
For example, they say it was many months into the case before they finally got their hands on the day planner, a central piece of evidence.
例如，他们说，案件进行了好几个月后，他们才终于拿到了日程安排表，这是一项核心证据。
So then the Morford Report came out, and pretty soon the defense attorneys got over 1,000 pages of documents that the government said they should have had all along.
于是莫福德报告出来了，很快辩护律师就拿到了政府说他们本来就应该拥有的 1000 多页文件。
Some of the new information was irrelevant, but still.
一些新信息虽然无关紧要，但仍然如此。
Rick Helfrick, one of the attorneys who defended Karim Koubriti, said he and his partners were stunned.
卡里姆·库布里蒂的辩护律师之一里克·赫尔弗里克表示，他和他的合伙人都惊呆了。
If you would have told me that we were going to get turned over to us-- when this was all over-- the amount of material that was turned over to us, that hadn't been turned over, I would have said you were crazy.
如果你告诉我，当这一切结束时，我们将被移交给我们——移交给我们的材料数量，以及尚未移交给我们的材料，我会说你疯了。
That that couldn't happen in this district, with this office, or quite frankly, I wouldn't have thought it could happen anywhere in this country.
这不可能发生在这个地区、这个办公室，或者坦白地说，我没想到这会发生在这个国家的任何地方。
But it did.
但它确实做到了。
One of the main revelations in the 1,000 pages had to do with that blob on the day planner sketch that you heard about earlier in the story.
这 1,000 页的主要启示之一与您在故事前面听说过的日程安排草图中的那个斑点有关。
Remember, the sketch was supposedly of the American Air Force base in Incirlik, Turkey.
请记住，该草图据说是位于土耳其因吉尔利克的美国空军基地。
At trial, Rick's witness said that the Air Force intelligence was unanimous about the blob-- that it depicted a hardened bunker used to house fighter jets.
在审判中，里克的证人表示，空军情报机构对这个斑点的看法是一致的——它描绘了一个用于容纳战斗机的硬化掩体。
But the Morford Report claimed that at least two intelligence officers didn't agree with that analysis and warned Rick that it might not be a bunker, that it might be a map of the Mideast, specifically, the Saudi Arabian peninsula.
但莫福德报告声称，至少两名情报官员不同意这一分析，并警告里克，这可能不是一个掩体，它可能是一张中东地图，特别是沙特阿拉伯半岛的地图。
Here's another defense attorney on the case, Jim Thomas.
这是该案的另一位辩护律师吉姆·托马斯。
He knew that it was a map of the Middle East.
他知道那是一张中东地图。
It wasn't Incirlik.
这不是因吉尔利克。
His own witnesses told him so, and he never told us.
他自己的目击者告诉他这一点，但他从未告诉过我们。
I mean, those things are central.
我的意思是，这些事情是核心。
Rick Convertino intentionally and deliberately withheld evidence.
里克·康维迪诺故意隐瞒证据。
This was the possibility opened up by the Morford Report.
这就是莫福德报告带来的可能性。
Maybe Rick was corrupt, intentionally and deliberately breaking the rules.
也许里克腐败了，故意、故意违反规则。
Rick says there's no question here at all.
里克说这里根本没有问题。
Not only was he not corrupt, he was fair and thorough, even when it came to identifying that blob.
他不仅不腐败，而且公正彻底，即使在识别那个斑点时也是如此。
He says he showed it to three different intelligence experts.
他说他把它展示给了三位不同的情报专家。
No one told us that that was a map of the Saudi Arabian peninsula.
没有人告诉我们那是沙特阿拉伯半岛的地图。
No one ever told me that that was a map of the Saudi Arabian peninsula.
没有人告诉我那是沙特阿拉伯半岛的地图。
They represented it was a hardened bunker.
他们表示这是一个硬化掩体。
In fact, they represented the specific number of the hardened bunker at the airbase.
事实上，它们代表了空军基地硬化掩体的具体数量。
Rick rejects the Morford Report.
里克拒绝接受莫福德报告。
He says the standard Morford is holding him to his ridiculously high, that no other case could survive this kind of scrutiny.
他说，莫福德的标准让他的标准高得离谱，没有其他案件能够经受住这种审查。
And there's not a single mistake he's copping to.
他没有犯任何一个错误。
And he's not denying the mistakes in a knee jerk way, either.
他也没有下意识地否认这些错误。
He can explain every discrepancy, and he does.
他可以解释每一个差异，而且他确实做到了。
The evidence Morford said was purposely withheld was not, or moreover, didn't exist in the first place.
莫福德所说的故意隐瞒的证据实际上并不存在，或者说根本就不存在。
And even if it did, it wasn't significant and so he wasn't required to turn it over.
即使确实如此，也不重要，因此他不需要将其移交。
The people Morford claims said things about Rick did not say those things, and in fact in a couple of cases, were asked to lie.
莫福德声称说过有关里克的事情的人并没有说过那些话，事实上，在一些情况下，他们被要求撒谎。
I asked him about almost every point in Morford, and he did not budge.
我几乎问了他莫福德的每一点，他没有让步。
You know, if somebody-- the intimation is-- and sometimes more direct than that-- the accusation is that I drove this personally.
你知道，如果有人——暗示是——有时比这更直接——指控是我亲自驾驶的。
That a single and sole Assistant United States Attorney on the ground in Detroit, Michigan, drew his own conclusions regarding the viability of the case, the importance of the case and what all of these pieces of evidence meant.
密歇根州底特律的一名唯一助理美国检察官就案件的可行性、案件的重要性以及所有这些证据的含义得出了自己的结论。
And that I brought an indictment solely, And that I prosecuted this case solely, is absurd and ridiculous.
我单独提出起诉，单独起诉这个案件，这是荒谬和可笑的。
These repeated allegations, innuendos continue to come and it's obscene that I have to sit here and answer this crap.
这些反复的指控、影射不断出现，我必须坐在这里回答这些废话，这真是可恶的。
The allegations in Morford could have been hashed out in a court hearing, where the judge would have decided what to do-- maybe grant a retrial, maybe do nothing.
莫福德的指控本可以在法庭听证会上得到讨论，法官将决定该怎么做——也许批准重审，也许什么也不做。
But this didn't happen.
但这并没有发生。
Instead, the Justice Department went for the nuclear option.
相反，司法部选择了核选项。
Dan Rather interrupted his live coverage of the Republican National Convention to report it.
丹·拉瑟中断了对共和党全国代表大会的现场报道来报道此事。
There's been a setback tonight in the war on terror.
今晚反恐战争遭遇挫折。
The Justice Department is now recommending dismissal of convictions in a Detroit terror cell case after admitting to a "quote" "pattern of mistakes and oversights by Federal prosecutors."
在承认“引用”“联邦检察官的错误和疏忽模式”后，司法部现在建议驳回对底特律恐怖组织案件的定罪。
The government voluntarily undoing its first jury trial terrorism convictions after 9/11, and not even bothering with a do-over.
9/11 事件后，政府自愿撤销了首次陪审团审判的恐怖主义定罪，甚至懒得重新做。
Keith Corbett, Rick's supervisor, couldn't get his head around it.
里克的主管基思·科贝特 (Keith Corbett) 无法理解这个问题。
unlike Rick, he agreed with Morford that he and Rick made some mistakes during the trial, though not intentionally.
与里克不同的是，他同意莫福德的观点，即他和里克在审判期间犯了一些错误，尽管不是故意的。
But still, to just dismiss the case like that.
但仍然如此，就这样驳回这个案子。
And no retrial.
并且没有重审。
Why?
为什么？
I don't know.
我不知道。
You probably could have tried that case again within three or four months.
您可能可以在三四个月内再次审理该案。
And I don't understand why that happened.
我不明白为什么会这样。
Rick and his defenders believe the government undid the convictions for one reason.
里克和他的辩护者认为，政府撤销这些定罪是有原因的。
To discredit him, end of story.
为了抹黑他，故事结束。
It defies all logic.
它违背了所有逻辑。
That's not the way the Department of Justice operates.
这不是司法部的运作方式。
They fight tooth and nail to defend cases.
他们竭尽全力为案件辩护。
On every occasion they fight to defend cases on-- I mean wholly egregious cases where discovery was purposefully withheld, they fight.
在每一个场合，他们都会为案件辩护——我的意思是，在故意隐瞒证据的完全令人震惊的案件中，他们会进行斗争。
Why not here?
为什么不在这里？
This is one of the most confusing aspects of this whole story.
这是整个故事中最令人困惑的方面之一。
Again, the Justice Department wouldn't talk to me for this report-- so I couldn't ask them directly-- but it does seem out of character, at least in terrorism cases, for the Justice Department to simply fold.
同样，司法部不会就这份报告与我交谈——所以我不能直接询问他们——但司法部简单地放弃似乎不符合他们的性格，至少在恐怖主义案件中是如此。
Just last year, in the terrorism financing case of the Holy Land Foundation, after two mistrials, the government said it would try the case a third time.
就在去年，在圣地基金会恐怖主义融资案中，经过两次无效审理后，政府表示将进行第三次审理。
The same thing, two mistrials, happened in the case of the Miami Seven.
同样的事情，两次误审，也发生在迈阿密七人队的案件中。
The government plans to retry that case a third time too.
政府还计划第三次重审该案。
True, neither of these involved accusations of prosecutorial misconduct.
诚然，这些都没有涉及检察官不当行为的指控。
But even so, the government's overall position on terrorism cases has been aggressive from start to end.
但即便如此，政府对恐怖主义案件的总体立场自始至终都是强硬的。
Jeff Breinholt, the former terrorism guy from the Justice Department, believes they probably could have retried the sleeper cell case successfully.
司法部前恐怖主义专家杰夫·布莱霍尔特 (Jeff Breinholt) 认为，他们本可以成功重审潜伏牢房案。
And when my producer Sarah Koenig and I asked him about it, he had a hard time explaining why they didn't go back to court.
当我的制片人莎拉·科尼格和我向他询问此事时，他很难解释为什么他们没有回到法庭。
It potentially could have been a circus environment.
它可能是一个马戏团环境。
And a decision was made to cut the losses.
并做出了减少损失的决定。
It sounds almost like you're saying they just wanted to be rid of it.
听起来几乎就像你在说他们只是想摆脱它。
Yeah.
是的。
Sarah Koenig What Rick Convertino will say, and what even colleagues who are mad at him will say, is it looks very much as if the Department of Justice sacrificed this case in order to bring him down personally.
莎拉·科尼格 里克·康维迪诺会说些什么，甚至那些生他的气的同事也会说的话，看起来司法部似乎牺牲了这个案子来打倒他个人。
No, no. Sarah Koenig OK, why is that not true?
不，不。莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）好吧，为什么这不是真的？
We sacrifice cases all the time in the interest of justice.
为了正义，我们总是牺牲案件。
In the interest of justice in this case, according to the people who made that decision, we're to walk away from a case where a jury had found somebody guilty.
根据做出该决定的人的说法，为了本案的正义，我们将放弃陪审团认定某人有罪的案件。
The fact that a case got to this point, it doesn't make this a personal vendetta, or the first time in human history this has ever happened.
案件发展到这个地步，并不意味着这是个人恩怨，也不是人类历史上第一次发生。
I mean, do you understand from where we sit that it looks kind of extreme for the Department to let it go?
我的意思是，从我们的角度来看，你是否明白国防部放手它看起来有点极端？
Perhaps.
也许。
I can see that, but I also think people who think that often don't give the Department credit for doing the right thing.
我可以看到这一点，但我也认为那些有这种想法的人往往不会相信该部门做了正确的事情。
A year and a half after the sleeper cell convictions were reversed, in the spring of 2006, all the investigations into Rick's conduct finally came to fruition.
在潜伏牢房的定罪被推翻一年半后，即 2006 年春天，对瑞克行为的所有调查终于有了结果。
The Justice Department indicted Rick on criminal charges for suppressing evidence in the sleeper cell case.
司法部因在潜伏牢房案中隐瞒证据而对瑞克提起刑事指控。
Now we're at the part of the story Rick calls his:
现在我们正处于瑞克所说的故事的一部分：
If you believe Rick and his lawyer, this was all classic retribution with very suspicious timing.
如果你相信里克和他的律师，这都是典型的报复，而且时机非常可疑。
For a federal prosecutor to be criminally indicted in the line of duty is practically unheard of.
联邦检察官因执行职务而受到刑事起诉几乎是闻所未闻的。
Not that prosecutors haven't misbehaved.
并不是说检察官没有行为不端。
They just don't get called out like this.
他们只是不会被这样叫出来。
If anything, the Justice Department has been criticized for years for failing to police its own.
如果说有什么不同的话，那就是司法部多年来一直因未能自我监管而受到批评。
Rick says that what was most amazing and dispiriting was that the government was setting out to destroy him and there was nobody to stop them, and no one cared.
里克说，最令人惊讶和沮丧的是，政府正着手摧毁他，却没有人阻止他们，也没有人在乎。
Though of course, the defendants in the sleeper cell case might say exactly the same thing about him, and about the Justice Department when they were on trial.
当然，卧铺牢房案中的被告在受审时可能会对他和司法部说同样的话。
That there was a political agenda at work.
有一个政治议程在起作用。
That the evidence against them was viewed in the worst possible light.
对他们不利的证据被从最坏的角度看待。
That no one was giving them the benefit of the doubt.
没有人相信他们是无辜的。
The criminal trial took place in the same courthouse where Rick prosecuted the terrorism case, an irony that wasn't lost on the accused terrorists.
刑事审判是在里克起诉恐怖主义案件的同一法院进行的，这一讽刺对于被指控的恐怖分子来说并没有消失。
One of them showed up just to watch.
其中一人出现只是为了观看。
I walked into that courtroom and the first person that I saw was Karim Koubriti, who was locked on to me, sitting in glory, because the justice system was now transplanting his role for mine.
我走进法庭，我看到的第一个人是卡里姆·库布里蒂（Karim Koubriti），他紧紧地盯着我，坐在荣耀中，因为司法系统现在正在将他的角色移植到我的角色上。
The world was upside down.
世界颠倒了。
I could not believe that I was in there as a defendant.
我不敢相信我作为被告在那里。
The main charges were obstruction of justice and conspiracy.
主要指控是妨碍司法公正和共谋。
He faced a potential prison sentence of 30 years.
他可能面临 30 年监禁。
After all the questions raised by the Morford Report, the only criminal misconduct the government thought it could prove in the trial had to do with some photos that weren't turned over to the defense in the sleeper cell case.
在《莫福德报告》提出了所有问题之后，政府认为在审判中可以证明的唯一刑事不当行为与卧铺牢房案中未移交给辩方的一些照片有关。
The government claimed Rick conspired to conceal them.
政府声称里克密谋隐瞒它们。
An old friend of Rick's, Greg Stejskal, went to his trial almost every day.
里克的一位老朋友格雷格·斯泰斯卡尔（Greg Stejskal）几乎每天都去参加他的审判。
He's an attorney and a former FBI agent.
他是一名律师，也是前联邦调查局特工。
As I sat and listened to the evidence and everything else, I thought, you know, where's the case?
当我坐下来听证据和其他一切时，我想，你知道，案件在哪里？
There has to be something more here.
这里一定还有更多的东西。
There has to-- the government would not criminally prosecute Rick based on what I've heard so far.
根据我迄今为止所听到的情况，政府必须不会对里克进行刑事起诉。
There must be somebody that's going to come in and say "Yeah, I saw Rick look at those pictures, and he told me that we can't let the defense have these pictures," or something.
一定有人会进来说“是的，我看到里克看了那些照片，他告诉我我们不能让辩方拥有这些照片”之类的。
And I sat through the whole thing, and I got to the end, and I thought, that's it?
我经历了整个过程，直到最后，我想，就这样了吗？
That's the best they can do?
这就是他们能做的最好的事情了吗？
And so the final conclusion I came to was, all right, they're either incredibly stupid, which they're not.
所以我得出的最终结论是，好吧，他们要么极其愚蠢，要么事实并非如此。
Or they deluded themselves into believing that there was something there that wasn't.
或者他们欺骗自己，相信那里有一些并不存在的东西。
Almost like a mass hysteria kind of thing.
几乎就像集体歇斯底里之类的事情。
It took the jurors less than a day to acquit Rick on all counts.
陪审团花了不到一天的时间就宣告瑞克无罪。
So Rick sued Ashcroft.
于是里克起诉阿什克罗夫特。
The justice department prosecuted Rick.
司法部起诉了里克。
Koubriti sued Rick.
库布里蒂起诉里克。
Rick sued the newspaper.
里克起诉了该报。
Then Rick sued the Justice Department again, and he's considering a third lawsuit against them for malicious prosecution.
然后里克再次起诉司法部，他正在考虑对他们提起第三次恶意起诉诉讼。
What are we supposed to think about this whole sorry mess of lawsuits?
对于这整堆令人遗憾的诉讼，我们应该怎么想？
Was Rick a rogue prosecutor?
里克是流氓检察官吗？
Was he the victim of a department-wide vendetta?
他是全部门仇杀的受害者吗？
What seems most likely to me, after spending months talking to all sides trying to figure it out, is this.
在花了几个月的时间与各方交谈试图找出答案后，我认为最有可能的是这样的。
Rick withheld information in the case that he should have turned over, but what he did was no different than what federal prosecutors do all the time.
里克隐瞒了他应该移交的案件信息，但他所做的与联邦检察官一直在做的没有什么不同。
Withholding exculpatory evidence is the most common mistake prosecutors make at all levels of the justice system.
隐瞒无罪证据是各级司法系统检察官最常犯的错误。
And the reason it's so common is that it's a judgment call.
它之所以如此普遍，是因为它是一种判断。
Rick says he didn't think he was breaking the law.
里克说他不认为自己违反了法律。
He thought he was playing fair.
他认为自己是在公平竞争。
And that's perfectly believable because there's a gray area concerning what evidence you have to turn over.
这是完全可信的，因为关于你必须交出哪些证据存在一个灰色地带。
Unfortunately for Rick, he's the rare prosecutor who got scrutinized.
对于里克来说不幸的是，他是罕见的受到审查的检察官。
Normally the Justice Department stands behind a prosecutor's choices, even questionable ones.
通常，司法部支持检察官的选择，即使是有问题的选择。
But Rick lost that backup, which was the only safety net that ultimately mattered.
但里克失去了后盾，这是唯一最终重要的安全网。
And he lost that support not because of our national interest, or any high-minded principles of fair play.
他失去这种支持并不是因为我们的国家利益，也不是因为任何崇高的公平竞争原则。
He lost it because of his attitude.
他因为他的态度而失去了它。
I was surprised to hear one of his old bosses, Jeff Breinholt, admit as much.
我很惊讶地听到他的一位前任老板杰夫·布莱霍尔特也承认了这一点。
That is an important factor.
这是一个重要因素。
I always laugh when people say-- people try to equate what happened-- how Bill Clinton was treated compared to Richard Nixon.
当人们说——人们试图将所发生的事情等同起来——比尔·克林顿与理查德·尼克松相比受到的待遇时，我总是笑。
Richard Nixon didn't make it whereas Bill Clinton did.
理查德·尼克松没有成功，而比尔·克林顿却成功了。
And I always say there's a little secret in politics.
我总是说政治中有一个小秘密。
It really matters whether people like you.
人们是否喜欢你真的很重要。
So how you get along with people is going to affect what happens to you.
因此，你与人相处的方式将会影响你发生的事情。
It's going to affect how many people come to bat for you.
这会影响有多少人来为你击球。
There's plenty of ways this thing did not have to get to that point, if he had acted differently.
如果他采取不同的行动，事情有很多可能不会发展到那个地步。
After all, Rick's immediate supervisor on the terrorism case, Keith Corbett, who co-prosecuted the case with Rick, who was in on every decision, was demoted in the wake of the investigations, but he certainly wasn't indicted.
毕竟，里克在恐怖主义案件中的直接上司基思·科贝特（Keith Corbett）在调查后被降职，他与里克共同起诉了该案，并参与了所有决定，但他肯定没有被起诉。
People liked Keith.
人们喜欢基思。
Keith wasn't threatening to punch out his colleagues.
基思并没有威胁要殴打他的同事。
Rick says he doesn't regret anything about the way he handled the case including, he told my producer, mouthing off to his bosses.
里克说，他对自己处理此案的方式并不后悔，包括他告诉我的制片人，向他的老板出言不逊。
You had to know that all these people had egos, and that every time you did that you were burning a bridge.
你必须知道所有这些人都有自负，而每次你这样做都是在自毁一座桥梁。
I did know that.
我确实知道这一点。
But the bridges that were being burnt were small and inconsequential.
但被烧毁的桥梁很小而且无关紧要。
But were they?
但他们是吗？
Rick Convertino They were.
里克·康维迪诺 他们是。
They were and they are to me now, because what are we doing?
他们过去和现在对我来说都是这样，因为我们在做什么？
You take an oath as an Assistant US Attorney, working for the Federal Government in the Department of Justice, for Christ sake.
看在上帝的份上，你宣誓成为美国助理检察官，为联邦政府司法部工作。
What higher plane can an attorney be on?
律师能达到什么更高层次？
But, Rick, come on.
但是，瑞克，来吧。
You'd been in the office.
你当时在办公室。
You knew as well as anyone the politics of this office.
你和任何人一样了解这个办公室的政治。
It just sounds so naive for you to say, like, but we were serving the public good.
你这样说听起来太天真了，但我们是在为公众利益服务。
They're going to come back and slaughter you.
他们会回来宰杀你。
And they did.
他们做到了。
They tried.
他们尝试过。
They tried.
他们尝试过。
And you're right.
你是对的。
I mean, was it imprudent?
我的意思是，这是不谨慎的吗？
Maybe.
或许。
Maybe?
或许？
Rick Convertino Well, listen.
里克·康维蒂诺 好吧，听着。
What you said was naive, I believe.
我相信你说的很天真。
I believe to this day.
直到今天我都相信。
The first time that I saw it was when I was in Washington DC, and had some early success.
我第一次看到它是在华盛顿特区，并取得了一些早期的成功。
I had a case-- the only case I've lost to this day-- was in the early '90s.
我曾经处理过一个案子——迄今为止我唯一输掉的案子——发生在上世纪 90 年代初。
And when I lost it, the attitude of my coworkers seemed to be that they were happy that I lost the case.
当我败诉时，我同事的态度似乎是他们很高兴我败诉。
And in fact, I raised that issue and was told, yeah, yeah, they are.
事实上，我提出了这个问题，并被告知，是的，是的，他们是。
That was the first time I saw it.
那是我第一次看到它。
And I thought, I don't care if you don't like me.
我想，我不在乎你是否不喜欢我。
It's easy to forget there was a terrorism case under all of this.
人们很容易忘记这一切背后隐藏着一起恐怖主义案件。
And maybe either innocent men were convicted or guilty men were freed.
也许无辜的人被定罪，或者有罪的人被释放。
To this day, the Justice Department has made a point of not taking a position on this question.
迄今为止，司法部已明确表示不对这个问题表明立场。
They've never said the men weren't terrorists.
他们从未说过这些人不是恐怖分子。
This in particular angers Karim Koubriti.
这尤其激怒了卡里姆·库布里蒂。
They never apologized to me.
他们从来没有向我道歉。
What, you think I'm a piece of garbage, treating me like that, and just be happy you're out?
什么，你以为我是个垃圾，这样对待我，然后就为自己出去而高兴？
I don't like to be treated that way, really.
我不喜欢被这样对待，真的。
And I don't feel justice was done.
我觉得正义没有得到伸张。
Are you a terrorist?
你是恐怖分子吗？
Karim Koubriti No, I am not.
卡里姆·库布里蒂 不，我不是。
Sometimes I really ask myself this question.
有时我真的会问自己这个问题。
And you guys make me think-- you know, when sometimes you hear stuff about you, you sit and say how you could-- what is this?
你们让我思考——你知道，有时当你听到有关你的事情时，你会坐下来说你怎么能——这是什么？
Is this is joke or something?
这是玩笑还是什么？
I never hurt anybody in my life.
我一生中从未伤害过任何人。
Anybody.
任何人。
I never even think to hurt anybody in my life.
我什至从未想过要伤害我生命中的任何人。
And I don't have any reason to be a terrorist.
我没有任何理由成为恐怖分子。
I am from Morocco.
我来自摩洛哥。
I am not from Palestine.
我不是来自巴勒斯坦。
I am not from Afghanistan.
我不是来自阿富汗。
I'm not an Iraqi.
我不是伊拉克人。
I really didn't have any bad feelings about the United States.
我对美国确实没有什么不好的感觉。
I really don't care about politics.
我真的不关心政治。
I just want to have a good future, that's the only reason I came to the United States.
我只是想有一个美好的未来，这是我来美国的唯一原因。
So what's terrorist mean, a Muslim?
那么恐怖分子意味着什么，穆斯林？
I am a Muslim.
我是穆斯林。
If you want to think I'm a terrorist because I'm Muslim, I can't control that.
如果你因为我是穆斯林而认为我是恐怖分子，那我无法控制。
But if you mean terrorist, that somebody was trying to hurt innocent people, I think he is the terrorist.
但如果你指的是恐怖分子，即有人试图伤害无辜者，我认为他就是恐怖分子。
Rick's the terrorist, Koubriti says, because he knew all along they weren't terrorists.
库布里蒂说，里克是恐怖分子，因为他一直知道他们不是恐怖分子。
That's why he's suing Rick now.
这就是他现在起诉里克的原因。
And I think what enrages Rick the most is that he now lives in a world where someone like Koubriti can accuse him-- a former federal prosecutor-- of being a terrorist.
我认为最让里克愤怒的是，他现在生活在一个像库布里蒂这样的人可以指控他——前联邦检察官——是恐怖分子的世界。
That his credibility has been so eviscerated that he has to defend his most basic beliefs.
他的信誉已被削弱，他必须捍卫自己最基本的信仰。
Beyond all peradventure, there's no question in my mind.
无论如何，我心里毫无疑问。
For Rick this is the bottom line.
对于瑞克来说，这是底线。
His job was to protect people and it was a responsibility he took seriously.
他的工作是保护人民，这是他认真对待的责任。
He was a soldier in the war on terror, and he believes he accomplished his mission.
他是反恐战争中的一名士兵，他相信自己完成了自己的使命。
He shut down a sleeper cell.
他关闭了一个潜伏的牢房。
He prevented the terrorists from striking again.
他阻止了恐怖分子再次发动袭击。
So I weigh that.
所以我权衡了一下。
What personal cost and professional cost did I pay for what may have been preventing a strike?
为了阻止罢工，我付出了哪些个人成本和专业成本？
I think we did a very important thing here.
我认为我们在这里做了一件非常重要的事情。
Now Rick is a criminal defense attorney.
现在里克是一名刑事辩护律师。
So far he's good at it.
到目前为止他很擅长。
Seven for seven.
七对七。
He specializes in law enforcement officers who get in trouble on the job.
他专门研究在工作中遇到麻烦的执法人员。
A state trooper accused of murder.
一名州警被指控谋杀。
A cop charged with assault.
一名警察被控袭击罪。
People whose bosses aren't backing them up.
老板不支持他们的人。
These guys come to him, Rick says, because he's been through what they're going through.
里克说，这些人来找他，因为他经历过他们正在经历的事情。
They know how angry he is, and they want that working for them.
他们知道他有多生气，他们希望这对他们有用。
Petra Bartosiewicz.
佩特拉·巴托谢维奇。
She's writing a book called The Best Terrorists We Could Find on this and other Justice Department cases in the war on terror.
她正在写一本名为《我们能找到的最好的恐怖分子》的书，内容涉及这起案件以及司法部在反恐战争中的其他案件。
It's coming out in spring, 2009.
它将于 2009 年春季推出。
Our program today and our story about Rick Convertino was produced by Sarah Koenig, with Alex Blumberg, Jane Feltes, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp and Nancy Updike.
我们今天的节目以及关于里克·康维迪诺的故事由莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 制作，亚历克斯·布伦伯格 (Alex Blumberg)、简·菲尔特斯 (Jane Feltes)、丽莎·波拉克 (Lisa Pollak)、罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien)、艾丽莎·希普 (Alissa Shipp) 和南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Some music in today's show by Pierre Takal.
今天节目中的一些音乐由皮埃尔·塔卡尔 (Pierre Takal) 创作。
Special thanks today to Bill Davis and Charles De Arman at the National Archives.
今天特别感谢国家档案馆的比尔·戴维斯和查尔斯·德阿曼。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Support for this American Life is provided by the Saab 9-3 family, a sports sedan, sport combi, and all season convertible.
Saab 9-3 系列为这种美国生活提供支持，包括运动轿车、运动组合车和全季敞篷车。
Saab, born from jets.
萨博，诞生于喷气机。
Learn more at Saabusa.com
访问 Saabusa.com 了解更多信息
And by Showtime, bringing a new season of real life stories of television.
Showtime 带来了新一季的电视真实故事。
Namely, the real life stories on the television version of our program: This American Life is now on the air with new episodes Sundays, 10:00.
也就是说，我们电视版节目《美国生活》中的真实生活故事现已在每周日 10:00 播出新剧集。
And they repeat pretty much every day of the week.
他们几乎一周中的每一天都会重复。
1-80o- Showtime, or sho.com.
1-80o- Showtime，或 sho.com。
WBEC management oversight for a program by our boss Mr. Tory Malatea whose been eyeing both my ass and my shoulders lately with one thing running through his head.
WBEC 对我们老板 Tory Malatea 先生的一项计划进行了管理监督，他最近一直盯着我的屁股和肩膀，脑子里闪过一件事。
My dad always used to say never trust a man whose ass is wider than his shoulders.
我父亲总是说永远不要相信一个屁股比肩膀宽的人。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。