354: Mistakes Were Made - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #354 | June 12, 2026 354: Mistakes Were Made Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 354 集 | 2026 年 6 月 12 日 354：犯了错误 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass OK, this just in.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 好的，这就是。
People don't like to admit it when they mess up.
当人们搞砸时，他们不愿意承认这一点。
It's true for little kids, true for adults, and maybe especially true for politicians.
对于小孩子来说是这样，对于成年人来说也是如此，对于政客来说尤其如此。
In just the last few weeks, President Trump has refused to apologize for calling for the deaths of the Central Park Five, even though somebody else admitted to that crime, and DNA evidence confirmed that version of the story.
就在过去几周，特朗普总统拒绝为要求杀害中央公园五人组而道歉，尽管其他人承认了这一罪行，而且 DNA 证据也证实了这个故事的版本。
Joe Biden has refused to apologize for saying this about a segregationist senator back in the '70s, quote, "He never called me boy.
乔·拜登拒绝为 70 年代的一位种族隔离主义参议员的言论道歉，他引用道：“他从来没有叫过我孩子。
He always called me son." Presidential candidate and senator Cory Booker called on Biden to apologize for it.
他总是叫我儿子。”总统候选人兼参议员科里·布克呼吁拜登为此道歉。
Biden refused to apologize, called on Booker to apologize for the very thought that the remark might have been wrongheaded.
拜登拒绝道歉，并呼吁布克为他的言论可能是错误的想法而道歉。
And when politicians do apologize, you know how it goes.
当政客们道歉时，你知道事情会怎样。
It's usually the kind of insincere, I regret the error.
通常都是那种不真诚的，我很后悔这个错误。
I meant no harm, I will do better kind of thing.
我没有恶意，我会做更好的事情。
Like the apology the Prime Minister of Hong Kong issued this month after two million people took to the streets to protest how cozy she is with mainland China.
就像本月香港总理在两百万人走上街头抗议她与中国大陆的友好关系后发表的道歉一样。
As a chief executive she said, I still have more to learn, and to do better to balance diverse interests and listen to people from all walks of life.
她表示，作为行政长官，我还有很多东西要学习，要做得更好，平衡不同利益，倾听各界人士的声音。
Just imagine for a second your partner or your spouse saying something like that to you with that tone.
想象一下，您的伴侣或配偶用那种语气对您说类似的话。
You would not feel reassured that they were really sorry.
如果他们真的很抱歉，你不会感到放心。
OK, so years ago when Barack Obama was still president-- and I remember he was apologizing for some remark he'd made about small town America.
好吧，几年前，当巴拉克·奥巴马(Barack Obama)还是总统时——我记得他为自己对美国小镇的一些言论道歉。
And around the same time, Hillary Clinton was apologizing for saying that she flew into Bosnia under sniper fire, which did not happen-- I was interviewing this guy about something else completely.
大约在同一时间，希拉里·克林顿(Hillary Clinton)为自己在狙击手火力下飞往波斯尼亚而道歉，但这并没有发生——我正在采访这个人，完全是为了别的事情。
And somehow we got into the subject of this whole apology business.
不知怎的，我们进入了整个道歉的主题。
And the guy has two daughters.
这家伙有两个女儿。
They were both around 13 years old back then.
那时他们都在13岁左右。
And he told me that whenever one of his daughters does something to the other, and he tells him to apologize as their parent, usually, the apology is fake-- just pro forma fake, the kid version of the politician's non-apology apology.
他告诉我，每当他的一个女儿对另一个女儿做了什么，他让他作为父母道歉时，通常这种道歉都是假的——只是形式上的假，是政治家不道歉道歉的孩子版。
And what do you do with that?
你用它做什么？
Because how do you make somebody actually feel sorry for something they don't feel sorry for?
因为你如何让某人真正为他们并不感到难过的事情感到难过？
I mean, there they are.
我的意思是，他们就在那里。
And you're like, say you're sorry.
你就像，说对不起。
Say it like you mean it.
说实话。
And they don't mean it, and they're not going to.
他们不是这个意思，他们也不会这么做。
They don't yet have the empathy.
他们还没有同理心。
Trying to explain to one of them, look, the way your sister feels is they go through life, they share with you.
试图向他们中的一个解释，看，你姐姐的感受是他们经历的生活，他们与你分享。
And then when you aren't generous with them, that makes them feel-- you're trying to explain it like this.
然后，当你对他们不慷慨时，这会让他们觉得——你试图这样解释。
And you can see the look on their eye, like this cold steely look.
你可以看到他们眼睛里的表情，就像这种冷酷的钢铁般的表情。
Like I hear what you're saying.
就像我听到你在说什么一样。
I hear your little fable.
我听到了你的小寓言。
I'm just not buying it.
我只是不买账。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
They'll do lip service to it.
他们会做口头上的承诺。
They'll kind of sigh and shrug, and sort of, in a sense, allow that, perhaps that's the case.
他们会叹息、耸耸肩，从某种意义上说，他们会允许这种情况发生，也许情况就是这样。
And then they take another shot at the apology.
然后他们又对道歉进行了一次攻击。
But as a parent, don't you feel like, well, OK, if all I'm going to get is lip service, at least I'm going to get the lip service.
但作为父母，你不觉得，好吧，如果我能得到的只是口头上的服务，至少我会得到口头上的服务。
At least they recognize--
至少他们认识到——
Even if your heart's not in this, I want to watch you go through the motions.
即使你的心不在这上面，我也想看着你走过场。
This is what people do when they really are sorry.
这就是人们在真正感到抱歉时所做的事情。
See, but that makes me feel more sympathetic to politicians or to this act which actually, usually fills me with contempt.
瞧，但这让我对政客或这种实际上通常让我充满蔑视的行为更加同情。
I feel like, well, at least the politician is pretending and acknowledging, yes, there is a moral code.
我觉得，好吧，至少政客假装并承认，是的，有道德准则。
They don't feel sorry, but they'll acknowledge that someone should feel sorry.
他们不会感到抱歉，但他们会承认有人应该感到抱歉。
And I feel like, well, if that's what we're going to get out of our politicians, well, OK.
我觉得，好吧，如果这就是我们要从我们的政客那里得到的，好吧，好吧。
I guess it's not what I want, but I can kind of live with that.
我想这不是我想要的，但我可以忍受。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I don't know if you're familiar with all the details of that Bible story about David and Bathsheba.
嗯，我不知道你是否熟悉关于大卫和拔示巴的圣经故事的所有细节。
And it's almost this funny modern politics story, right?
这几乎就是一个有趣的现代政治故事，对吧？
No, I don't know this one.
不，我不知道这个。
Derek Jones Oh, OK.
德里克·琼斯哦，好的。
Well, so here's King David, powerful king of Israel, and he basically commits adultery in office.
好吧，这是大卫王，强大的以色列国王，他在任期间基本上犯了通奸罪。
He sees a woman that he can have because of his power, who's not his wife, and arranges her to come to the palace and has his way with her.
他看到一个靠自己的力量可以拥有的女人，却不是他的妻子，便安排她来到皇宫，对她为所欲为。
And then, the story's going to break.
然后，故事就会破裂。
And her husband's going to find out.
她的丈夫会发现的。
And he, in a very modern way, tries to quell the story, quash it, before it gets out.
他以一种非常现代的方式，试图在故事传出之前平息、镇压它。
He has her husband sent to the front lines of battle, where he gets killed.
他把她的丈夫送到了前线，但他在那里被杀了。
He does everything he can to hope that he can just actually hide it.
他尽一切努力希望他能真正隐藏它。
He does not feel sorry about it.
他对此并不感到遗憾。
And he really digs himself in deep.
他真的把自己挖得很深。
And time goes on.
时间还在继续。
And a prophet becomes aware of this divinely and comes to confront David on it.
一位先知神圣地意识到了这一点，并就此与大卫对峙。
And what does he do?
他做什么？
He tells him a story.
他给他讲了一个故事。
He gets him engaged in this little fable about somebody who has a pet lamb, a poor man with a pet lamb that he loves like a pet.
他让他参与了这个小寓言，讲的是一个养了一只宠物羊羔的人，一个穷人，养了一只他像宠物一样爱的宠物羊羔。
And that a rich man goes in and gets that lamb and prepares it for a meal.
一个富人进去拿了那只羔羊并准备了一顿饭。
Because of his power, he's able to-- the poor man's like a serf who lives on his land, so the rich man is just like, hey--
由于他的力量，他能够——穷人就像生活在自己土地上的农奴，所以富人就像，嘿——
I'm taking that.
我接受了。
Derek Jones Yeah, because it's-- you know, everything you have is mine.
德里克·琼斯 是的，因为——你知道，你拥有的一切都是我的。
So it's this really awful thing of something that someone else valued very highly was valued very low by the rich man just because of his power.
所以这是一件非常可怕的事情，别人非常看重的东西却被富人仅仅因为他的权力而看低。
And but Nathan's not telling him the story like it's a fable.
但内森并没有像寓言一样告诉他这个故事。
He's telling him like this is happening in your kingdom.
他告诉他，这就像发生在你的王国里一样。
What are you going to do about it?
你打算怎么做？
David gets all enraged on behalf of the victim and says, bring him here.
大卫代表受害者勃然大怒，说把他带到这里来。
We're going to do justice on him.
我们要为他伸张正义。
We're going to see this done right.
我们将看到这件事做得正确。
We're going to bring that rich man here, and we're going to punish him to the full extent of the law.
我们要把那个富人带到这里，我们要依法严惩他。
And so David is demanding justice for the perpetrator.
因此大卫要求为肇事者伸张正义。
And the prophet looks at him and says, you are the man.
先知看着他说，你就是那个人。
And that does it.
就这样了。
Then David really gets it, and he comes apart.
然后大卫真的明白了，他崩溃了。
And he has a very genuine apology and repentance.
他有非常真诚的道歉和悔改。
I mean, but he does really end up paying for it.
我的意思是，但他最终确实为此付出了代价。
And he's a much better king afterward.
之后他成为了一个更好的国王。
And so if you could sit down Clinton or Obama-- and I don't know, you'd have to do something like that, maybe.
因此，如果你能让克林顿或奥巴马坐下来——我不知道，你也许必须做类似的事情。
What's sad is that they both know this story.
可悲的是，他们都知道这个故事。
They're always talking about how they're always going to church.
他们总是谈论他们如何总是去教堂。
Yeah.
是的。
You wonder if one of their pastors will sit them down, tell them that story, and then say, you are the man.
你想知道他们的一位牧师是否会让他们坐下来，告诉他们这个故事，然后说，你就是那个人。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, Mistakes Were Made-- stories of people apologizing in that way that amounts to not apologizing at all, not accepting responsibility for the things they've done.
今天在我们的节目中，我们犯了错误——人们以这种方式道歉的故事相当于根本不道歉，不为他们所做的事情承担责任。
Our show today in two acts-- Act One, You're Cold as Ice.
我们今天的演出分两幕——第一幕，你冷如冰。
Act Two, You're Willing to Sacrifice Our Love.
第二幕，你愿意牺牲我们的爱。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, You're Cold as Ice.
第一幕，你冷若冰霜。
So many scientific advances begin with amateur enthusiasts.
许多科学进步都是从业余爱好者开始的。
Or is that enthusiasts?
或者说是爱好者？
Whatever.
任何。
I'm talking about people who form little groups to explore new scientific ideas like robots, or computers, or just whatever.
我说的是那些组成小团体来探索新的科学思想的人，比如机器人、计算机或其他什么。
This story is about a group like that and the guy who led them.
这个故事是关于这样一个团体以及领导他们的人的。
Sam Shaw tells the story.
萨姆·肖讲述了这个故事。
It was the 1960s, the decade of the first heart transplant and the first working laser.
那是 20 世纪 60 年代，这是第一例心脏移植手术和第一台可用激光的十年。
New antibiotics gave the Surgeon General such a jolt of confidence, he announced to Congress that the time had come, and I quote, "to close the book on infectious diseases." It was against this backdrop of high-flying optimism that a Michigan College professor named Robert Ettinger wrote a book posing a simple question-- what if death itself was just another disease-- generally fatal, but not necessarily incurable?
新的抗生素给了卫生局局长极大的信心，他向国会宣布，现在是时候了，我引用一下，“关闭关于传染病的书”。正是在这种高度乐观的背景下，密歇根大学教授罗伯特·埃廷格写了一本书，提出了一个简单的问题——如果死亡本身只是另一种疾病——通常是致命的，但不一定无法治愈？
His theory went like this.
他的理论是这样的。
If you could freeze somebody at the exact moment of clinical death, maybe, just maybe, in 50 years or 100 years or 1,000, the doctors of the future could bring him back to life.
如果你能在某人临床死亡的那一刻将其冷冻起来，也许，只是也许，50年、100年或1000年后，未来的医生就能让他复活。
This was cryonics or cryonic suspension.
这就是人体冷冻学或冷冻悬浮液。
And groups of enthusiasts began to spring up here and there, which is how Bob Nelson got involved.
一群爱好者开始到处涌现，鲍勃·尼尔森就是这样参与其中的。
I was on the freeway in a traffic jam-- very common here in California.
我在高速公路上遇到交通堵塞——这在加州很常见。
And it came on the radio that there was going to be the first meeting of the Suspended Animation Group at Helen Kline's house.
广播里传来动画暂停小组的第一次会议将在海伦·克莱恩家举行的消息。
And I remember going there thinking that I'm probably not going to be allowed in, because I'm not a scientist.
我记得去那里的时候我想我可能不会被允许进去，因为我不是科学家。
But at least I'll get to see some of the scientists.
但至少我能见到一些科学家。
And I went in.
我进去了。
I was allowed in, and I came out voted president.
我被允许进去，出来后我被选为总统。
Bob had no medical or scientific training whatsoever.
鲍勃没有接受过任何医学或科学培训。
Hadn't even finished high school.
连高中都没念完。
He was a 30-year-old TV repairman with a wife and three kids.
他是一名 30 岁的电视修理工，有妻子和三个孩子。
But he was charming, the kind of charm where you like him because he lets you know in 100 ways that he likes you.
但他很有魅力，那种你喜欢他的魅力，因为他用 100 种方式让你知道他喜欢你。
After a few hours with him, he's hugging you goodbye.
和他在一起几个小时后，他拥抱你告别。
And Bob sincerely believed that cryonics was going to save millions of lives, and that belief was infectious.
鲍勃真诚地相信人体冷冻技术将拯救数百万人的生命，而且这种信念具有感染力。
He did some press, local TV and radio.
他做过一些新闻报道、当地电视和广播节目。
Turned out he was a really good salesman.
事实证明他是一位非常优秀的推销员。
And it did.
确实如此。
It took off like a cyclone.
它像旋风一样起飞。
It was stunning.
太棒了。
I remember once going into a restaurant, and I was at the urinal and overheard two guys talking, saying, you know who that is?
我记得有一次走进一家餐馆，我在小便池旁，无意中听到两个人在说话，说，你知道那是谁吗？
That's the guy that freezes people.
就是那个能把人冻死的家伙。
And the other guy said, why does he do that?
另一个人说，他为什么这么做？
And I thought it was just bizarre to be in that situation where you're famous for something that you don't know quite how it happened.
我觉得在这样的情况下，你因为一些你不知道它是如何发生的事情而出名，这很奇怪。
The members of Bob's group weren't experts.
鲍勃小组的成员都不是专家。
They were just fans of an idea.
他们只是一个想法的粉丝。
As you'd expect, many were older people, some of them sick and thinking about their own deaths.
正如你所料，许多人都是老年人，其中一些人生病了，正在思考自己的死亡。
They set up a non-profit, the Cryonics Society of California.
他们成立了一个非营利组织——加州人体冷冻协会。
And before long, they'd drafted a lineup of scientific advisors.
不久之后，他们就起草了一系列科学顾问。
At this point, nobody had actually been frozen yet, and the scientists set one condition for their participation-- that nobody try, not yet.
此时，实际上还没有人被冷冻，科学家们为他们的参与设定了一个条件——没有人尝试，但还没有。
They wanted to take things slow, conduct research, publish papers.
他们想慢慢来，进行研究，发表论文。
And that was fine with Bob until he got a call from the son of a psychology professor who was dying of cancer, a man who couldn't wait for the research to pan out.
鲍勃对此感到满意，直到他接到一位心理学教授的儿子的电话，这位教授因癌症而生命垂危，他迫不及待地等待这项研究的结果。
His name was James Bedford.
他的名字叫詹姆斯·贝德福德。
Dr. Bedford wanted to be frozen, and he wondered if the Cryonics Society could help him.
贝德福德博士想要被冷冻，他想知道人体冷冻协会是否可以帮助他。
So Bob says he got on the phone with the godfather of the movement.
鲍勃说他和这场运动的教父通了电话。
Well, I called Robert Ettinger that night, and I told him what had happened.
那天晚上我给罗伯特·埃丁格打电话，告诉他发生了什么事。
And he said, oh my god, this is the biggest thing that's happened in the cryonics program.
他说，天哪，这是人体冷冻项目中发生的最重大的事情。
And so Ettinger said, we need to go ahead and do it.
所以埃廷格说，我们需要继续做下去。
And I said, but we'll lose the scientific advisory council.
我说过，但是我们将失去科学顾问委员会。
He said, maybe not all of them.
他说，也许不是全部。
And if we do, we'll get them again.
如果我们这样做了，我们会再次得到它们。
He said, there's nothing that will push the program of cryonics forward than the freezing of the first man.
他说，没有什么比冷冻第一个人更能推动人体冷冻学计划的发展了。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Lost every one of them the next day.
第二天就全部丢失了。
So Bob assembled a team of doctors to carry out the freezing.
于是鲍勃召集了一组医生来进行冷冻。
Though when Dr. Bedford died on January 12, 1967, they were all caught off guard.
然而当贝德福德博士于 1967 年 1 月 12 日去世时，他们都措手不及。
Dr. Bedford's nurse had to run up and down the block collecting ice from the home freezers of neighbors.
贝德福德医生的护士不得不在街区里跑来跑去，从邻居家的冰箱里收集冰块。
Cryonics was still just a theory, and the proceedings had the slightly manic quality of a local theater production forced to open a couple of weeks early.
人体冷冻学仍然只是一种理论，整个过程有点狂躁，就像当地戏剧作品被迫提前几周开放一样。
A half a year later, when a member of their own group turned up at the morgue, wearing a medical bracelet saying she was supposed to be frozen, Bob wasn't much better prepared.
半年后，当他们自己小组的一名成员出现在太平间时，戴着医疗手镯，说她应该被冷冻，鲍勃并没有做好更好的准备。
Her name was Marie Sweet.
她的名字叫玛丽·斯威特。
And among the things she left when she died, there was a photograph someone had taken of her 27 years earlier, along with a handwritten message.
在她去世时留下的东西中，有一张27年前有人为她拍的照片，以及一条手写的信息。
It said, "This is as I wish to be restored."
其曰：“此乃吾所愿复也”。
Bob called a couple of student embalmers with access to equipment at the mortuary college, and they performed the freezing the only place they could, in the Cryonics Society office on two desks pushed together and covered with a sheet.
鲍勃打电话给太平间学院的几位能够使用设备的学生防腐师，他们在人体冷冻学会办公室的两张桌子上进行了冷冻，他们把两张桌子拼在一起并盖上一张床单。
I was a nervous wreck because I'm thinking, I don't know how many violations I'm committing here.
我很紧张，因为我在想，我不知道我在这里犯了多少违规行为。
For example, a dead body legally can only be moved by a mortician.
例如，尸体只能由殡葬师合法移动。
And then I had no idea if I was committing any violations by having the body up in our offices, and putting her on ice there, and then carrying her down the stairs.
然后我不知道我把尸体放在我们的办公室里，把她放在冰上，然后把她抱下楼梯，是否犯了任何违规行为。
It was all just really peculiar.
这一切真的很奇怪。
One challenge with cryonics is that the freezing process itself can do a lot of damage to the body.
人体冷冻学面临的一大挑战是冷冻过程本身会对身体造成很大损害。
Living cells are full of water, and when water freezes, it expands, like a house in winter where the pipes burst.
活细胞充满了水，当水结冰时，它会膨胀，就像冬天的房子水管破裂一样。
To minimize the damage, Bob and his team replace the blood with special chemicals, a process called perfusion.
为了最大限度地减少损害，鲍勃和他的团队用特殊化学物质替换血液，这一过程称为灌注。
Meanwhile, they packed ice around the head and body-- a lot of ice.
与此同时，他们在头部和身体周围敷满冰块——大量的冰块。
The goal was to get Marie into a giant stainless steel container cooled by liquid nitrogen.
目标是将玛丽放入一个由液氮冷却的巨大不锈钢容器中。
A cryonics buff in Arizona had started building capsules for exactly this purpose.
亚利桑那州的一位人体冷冻爱好者已经开始为此目的建造胶囊。
That's where Dr. Bedford ended up, sent there by his son after the first freezing.
这就是贝德福德医生最终到达的地方，他的儿子在第一次冷冻后将他送到了那里。
But it wasn't clear where to send Marie.
但目前还不清楚该把玛丽送到哪里。
The Cryonics Society had no place to keep a frozen body.
人体冷冻协会没有地方保存冷冻尸体。
For all they knew, centuries might pass before she could be thawed out and brought back to life.
据他们所知，可能要过几个世纪才能让她解冻并复活。
Which is to say, they needed someplace really permanent.
也就是说，他们需要一个真正永久的地方。
That was going to cost a lot of money.
那要花很多钱。
Marie Sweet's husband managed to scrape together a few hundred dollars-- that's it.
玛丽·斯威特的丈夫设法凑了几百美元——仅此而已。
And the society was broke.
社会崩溃了。
What the society did have was a lot of enthusiastic members, all of them hoping to be suspended.
该协会确实有很多热心会员，他们都希望被停职。
Bob figured he'd let them decide whether to keep Marie frozen.
鲍勃认为他应该让他们决定是否继续冷冻玛丽。
It wasn't a very tough room.
这不是一个非常困难的房间。
They all said, yeah, yeah, go ahead, Bob.
他们都说，是的，是的，继续吧，鲍勃。
Yeah, go ahead.
是的，继续吧。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
So I should have said, well, is anybody going to help here?
所以我应该说，好吧，有人愿意帮忙吗？
Or is it just me?
还是只有我这样？
And but it turned out it was just me.
但事实证明只有我一个人。
And then I get to the point where I begin to realize that this was me.
然后我开始意识到这就是我。
I had the power, the decision, to say, OK, we're going to give up on Marie, which we should have done in hindsight.
我有权力、有决定说，好吧，我们要放弃玛丽，事后看来我们应该这样做。
But I kept thinking that it's going to work.
但我一直认为它会起作用。
So it just seemed that it was worth going just a little bit further.
所以看来值得再进一步一点。
I never intended with Marie Sweet to forever keep her in preservation at my own expense.
我从来没有打算用我自己的钱来永远保存玛丽·斯威特。
No. I just felt for a while to see what happened next.
没有，我只是感觉了一下，看看接下来会发生什么。
This very reasonable position led Bob into a lot of very unreasonable decisions over the next few years-- decisions he's still explaining decades later.
这种非常合理的立场导致鲍勃在接下来的几年里做出了许多非常不合理的决定——几十年后他仍在解释这些决定。
And what happened next is that another member of the society died.
而接下来发生的事情是，社团的另一名成员去世了。
Now Helen Kline-- let me preface by saying-- was, for me, very special.
现在海伦·克莱恩——让我在序言中说——对我来说非常特别。
This was the lady that introduced me to the concept of cryonics.
这位女士向我介绍了人体冷冻学的概念。
She was the one that had that first meeting.
她是第一次见面的人。
She just somehow put a spell on me.
她只是以某种方式对我施了咒语。
You know?
你知道？
I just loved her.
我只是爱她。
The society already had one body on its hands and no real plan of action.
社会已经只剩下一个机构，却没有真正的行动计划。
Like Marie Sweet, Helen Kline had died more or less penniless, leaving no funds to pay for a proper cryonic suspension.
和玛丽·斯威特一样，海伦·克莱恩去世时或多或少身无分文，没有留下任何资金来支付适当的冷冻暂停费用。
But the truth is Bob liked these people, and he didn't want to let them down.
但事实是鲍勃喜欢这些人，他不想让他们失望。
And who knew?
谁知道呢？
Maybe cryonics would be huge, and there'd be money in it someday.
或许人体冷冻技术将会是巨大的，并且有一天会带来金钱。
Once again, Bob put the question to the group.
鲍勃再次向小组提出了这个问题。
And once again, they all agreed.
他们再一次同意了。
Their friend deserved a shot at a second life.
他们的朋友值得获得第二次生命的机会。
So Helen Kline followed Marie Sweet to a mortuary in the city of Buena Park, where Bob had jerry-rigged a temporary storage container-- basically, a wooden box lined with polyurethane.
于是，海伦·克莱恩跟着玛丽·斯威特来到了布埃纳帕克市的一家太平间，鲍勃在那里临时搭建了一个临时储存容器——基本上就是一个内衬聚氨酯的木箱。
Actually, what the wooden box is, is when they ship a casket, it's the outer box-- the wooden box that they ship them in.
事实上，木箱是什么，当他们运送棺材时，它是外箱——他们运送棺材的木箱。
And we would put styrofoam on the sides and on the top, and they make excellent refrigeration units.
我们会在侧面和顶部放置聚苯乙烯泡沫塑料，它们可以制成出色的制冷装置。
In other words, a giant cooler filled with a lot of dry ice.
换句话说，这是一个装满大量干冰的巨型冷却器。
The problem was dry ice is expensive.
问题是干冰很昂贵。
So he made what seemed like a simple decision at the time.
所以他做出了当时看来很简单的决定。
We had a container with a lady in dry ice already.
我们已经有一个装有干冰的女士的容器了。
It didn't cost anymore to put this little lady in there.
把这个小女人放进去已经不再需要花费了。
Once we put Helen Kline in-- she was a tiny little thing, and so was Marie.
一旦我们把海伦·克莱恩放进去——她就是一个小东西，玛丽也是。
Maintaining the cooler was a big job, but Bob didn't really see an alternative.
维护冷却器是一项艰巨的任务，但鲍勃并没有真正找到替代方案。
Every week or so, he put hundreds of pounds of dry ice in the backseat of his little vintage Porsche and drove two hours from Woodland Hills to the mortuary in Buena Park, where the bodies were stored.
大约每周，他都会在他的小型老式保时捷后座上放上数百磅干冰，然后开车两个小时从伍德兰希尔斯到达布埃纳公园的太平间，那里存放着尸体。
Not in some state of the art permanent facility, remember.
请记住，不是在某些最先进的永久性设施中。
Here's Joe Klockgether, the mortician at the facility.
这是该设施的殡葬师 Joe Klockgether。
It was in the garage that I had them.
我把它们放在车库里。
So I have to say the storage facility because when you say storage facility, you think of something much neater.
所以我不得不说存储设施，因为当你说存储设施时，你会想到更简洁的东西。
But it was the garage, but it didn't make any difference, really, except that, oh, you kept them in a garage.
但那是车库，但实际上没有任何区别，除了，哦，你把它们放在车库里。
That doesn't sound good.
听起来不太好。
But yeah, I was anxious to get them out of here.
但是，是的，我很渴望让他们离开这里。
Bob, come on, I got to use my garage.
鲍勃，来吧，我得使用我的车库。
I got things I want to do.
我有我想做的事情。
I don't want to keep doing this here.
我不想再在这里继续这样做了。
And I don't want to play around with the health department.
我不想与卫生部门玩弄。
See, there's a term, temporary storage.
看，有一个术语，临时存储。
They don't really clarify what temporary means, but you or I know temporary doesn't mean forever.
他们并没有真正阐明暂时的含义，但你或我知道暂时并不意味着永远。
Temporary-- something should be down on the road.
暂时的——应该有什么事情正在发生。
You should have some kind of a date.
你应该有一个约会。
It was at this point, with Bob dodging Joe Klockgether, and Joe Klockgether dodging the health department, that a third member of the society died unexpectedly.
就在此时，鲍勃躲避乔·克洛克格瑟，乔·克洛克格瑟躲避卫生部门，协会的第三名成员意外死亡。
Russ Stanley, a man in a position to solve all of Bob's problems.
拉斯·斯坦利（Russ Stanley），一个有能力解决鲍勃所有问题的人。
Russ Stanley used to call me at home every night and drive me nuts on the telephone for an hour, sometimes two hours-- I couldn't get rid of him-- telling me about every little thing that happened everywhere in the country about cryonics.
拉斯·斯坦利曾经每天晚上给我家里打电话，在电话里让我发疯一个小时，有时两个小时——我无法摆脱他——告诉我全国各地发生的有关人体冷冻学的每一件小事。
To him, there was nothing else in life but cryonics and assuring me always that when he died, the society would be in good, good shape.
对他来说，生命中除了人体冷冻之外就没有别的了，他总是向我保证，当他死后，社会将会处于良好状态。
Russ used to always say, I am loaded.
拉斯过去总是说，我已经满载而归了。
I own my own house.
我拥有自己的房子。
So I expected him to leave a couple hundred thousand dollars or something.
所以我希望他留下几十万美元什么的。
He left his money to his next door neighbor, who was his ex-lover, a Mr. Coco.
他把钱留给了他的隔壁邻居，也就是他的前情人可可先生。
Mr. Coco hated cryonics.
可可先生讨厌人体冷冻学。
So he called me about three or four days after we had Russ in dry-- we put him in the container, too.
所以在我们让拉斯干燥后大约三四天，他给我打电话——我们也把他放进了容器里。
So now we got three people in this dry ice container.
所以现在这个干冰容器里有三个人。
It was big.
它很大。
I couldn't put anymore in there, but I figured, well, this was going to save the day.
我不能再往里面放东西了，但我想，好吧，这会扭转局面。
But Mr. Coco said, Russ Stanley directed me to give the Cryonics Society $5,000 now and $5,000 in three months.
但可可先生说，拉斯·斯坦利指示我现在向人体冷冻学会捐赠 5,000 美元，并在三个月内捐赠 5,000 美元。
It was enough money, at least, to solve Bob's most pressing problem-- to get a legal place to store the frozen bodies he was keeping in the garage.
这笔钱至少足以解决鲍勃最紧迫的问题——找到一个合法的地方来存放他存放在车库里的冰冻尸体。
So he bought a plot of land and built a vault in a cemetery in Chatsworth, 30 miles north of LA.
因此，他在洛杉矶以北 30 英里的查茨沃斯 (Chatsworth) 买了一块土地，并在一个墓地里建造了一个金库。
A 15x20 room dug like a bunker into a gently sloping hillside.
一个 15x20 的房间像一个掩体一样挖在一个缓坡的山坡上。
Now all he needed were stainless steel capsules to hold the bodies into perpetuity.
现在他所需要的只是不锈钢胶囊来永久保存尸体。
But as luck would have it, we got a call from Mrs. Bowers.
但幸运的是，我们接到了鲍尔斯夫人的电话。
Mrs. Marie Bowers was a housewife from Detroit.
玛丽·鲍尔斯夫人是一位来自底特律的家庭主妇。
A few years back her father had died, and she'd arranged to have him frozen by Ed Hope, the same guy who was storing Dr. Bedford in Phoenix, Arizona.
几年前，她的父亲去世了，她安排艾德·霍普把他冷冻起来，他就是在亚利桑那州菲尼克斯存放贝德福德医生的那个人。
Her father had spent a year and a half there in a one-man capsule the size of a standard water heater.
她的父亲在一个标准热水器大小的单人太空舱里呆了一年半。
Now, as it turned out, Marie was in a fix of her own.
现在，事实证明，玛丽也陷入了困境。
She couldn't pay the storage that Ed Hope was charging.
她无法支付埃德·霍普收取的存储费用。
She couldn't pay the liquid nitrogen.
她付不起液氮的费用。
And she says, I owe him $1,500.
她说，我欠他 1,500 美元。
And her exact words, she says, "He threatened to kick the effin' capsule out into the street." So she called me, and I went, wait.
她说，她的原话是：“他威胁要把那个该死的胶囊踢到街上。”所以她打电话给我，我就去，等等。
Well, hmm.
嗯，嗯。
Boy.
男生。
If I could put a couple of people in that capsule, if I could get them all in there-- I didn't know if four people would fit in one capsule-- boy, would that solve my problem.
如果我能把几个人放进那个胶囊里，如果我能把他们全部放进去——我不知道一个胶囊里是否能容纳四个人——天哪，这能解决我的问题吗？
And that would solve her problem.
这就能解决她的问题。
And again, that's probably the only thing that I am somewhat ashamed about-- that I didn't tell her that I was going to put three more people in there.
再说一次，这可能是我唯一感到羞愧的事情——我没有告诉她我要再放三个人在那里。
Why didn't you tell her?
你为什么不告诉她？
Bob Nelson I don't know.
鲍勃·尼尔森 我不知道。
Probably fear.
大概是恐惧吧。
Were you afraid-- was there part of you that was nervous if you did tell her that she might not go for it?
如果你告诉她她可能不会这么做，你是否会感到害怕？
I wasn't worried about that because she had no alternative.
我并不担心这个，因为她别无选择。
She had nowhere else to go.
她无处可去。
Well, I didn't think it was necessary to burden her with that big complex problem of her dad being coupled with other people.
嗯，我认为没有必要让她承受她父亲与其他人交往这个大而复杂的问题。
It might have been a problem for her.
这对她来说可能是个问题。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Maybe it wouldn't have been.
也许本来就不会。
The capsule arrived at the mortuary in Buena Park in the spring of 1969, and Bob was there to greet it.
1969 年春天，太空舱抵达布埃纳公园的太平间，鲍勃在那里迎接它。
A cryonic container is basically a giant thermos, one steel tube inside another with a vacuum in between.
冷冻容器基本上是一个巨大的热水瓶，一根钢管装在另一根钢管内，中间是真空。
So long as you added liquid nitrogen once every few months, the tank stayed really cold.
只要每隔几个月添加一次液氮，水箱就会保持非常冷的状态。
These containers weren't designed to be open and shut again, so when the time came to add the extra bodies, Bob had to improvise.
这些容器的设计不能再次打开和关闭，因此当需要添加额外的尸体时，鲍勃不得不即兴发挥。
He drained the liquid nitrogen and had a welder open the capsule with a blowtorch.
他排空了液氮，并让焊工用喷灯打开了胶囊。
They spent most of the night unsealing the tank and arranging the bodies, which they wrapped head to toe in Mylar.
他们花了大半夜的时间打开水箱并整理尸体，并用聚酯薄膜从头到脚包裹起来。
Joe Klockgether was there, too.
乔·克洛克格瑟也在场。
Here again, I'm just kind of helping them because it's here.
再说一次，我只是在帮助他们，因为它就在这里。
And I'm curious, too.
我也很好奇。
Anybody would be curious just to see.
任何人都会好奇地想看看。
I was feeling excited and nervous because the question was, would we be able to orchestrate the arrangement of these bodies inside that container successfully?
我感到既兴奋又紧张，因为问题是，我们能否成功地将这些尸体安排在容器内？
Well, first of all, you have to see how much room was in there.
嗯，首先，你必须看看里面有多少空间。
Yeah, just to move-- because of the configuration of the container.
是的，只是为了移动——因为容器的配置。
Well, it was round, of course.
嗯，当然是圆的。
But just to get it to fit right, you know?
但只是为了让它适合，你知道吗？
These people were frozen.
这些人都被冻住了。
And when they were frozen, it could have been maybe an elbow out, so you might have to turn them another way to get the other one to slide beside them.
当它们被冻结时，可能是肘部向外，所以你可能必须以另一种方式转动它们才能让另一个滑到它们旁边。
I mean, oh, it was cramped.
我的意思是，哦，它很狭窄。
Yeah, it was cramped.
是的，那里很狭窄。
I had to have gloves on because the body is like steel.
我必须戴上手套，因为身体就像钢铁一样。
And 300 degrees below zero, it's like holding a pot that's 300 degrees above zero.
而零下 300 度，就像拿着一个零上 300 度的锅一样。
It's just, you can't do it.
只是，你做不到。
And it took probably a couple of hours to get them so that everyone was comfortably arranged.
可能花了几个小时才拿到它们，以便每个人都安排得舒适。
Then they sealed the container back up.
然后他们将容器重新密封起来。
It was that simple.
就是这么简单。
Bob told two confidants about the welder and the four bodies in the tank.
鲍勃向两个密友讲述了焊工和罐内四具尸体的情况。
Otherwise, he kept it a secret.
否则，他就保守秘密了。
He'd done what he felt he had to do.
他已经做了他觉得自己必须做的事。
And for the moment, what he felt was relief.
此刻，他感到如释重负。
He'd steered the car back onto the road, secured a working capsule for the four people in his care and a legal vault to keep it in.
他把车开回路上，为他照顾的四个人找到了一个工作舱，并找到了一个合法的保险库来存放它。
From here on out, he'd be practical and businesslike.
从现在开始，他会务实、务实。
No more soft-hearted exceptions.
不再有心软的例外。
No more pro bono freezings.
不再有无偿冻结。
But the capsule Bob had pinned his hopes on needed round-the-clock attention.
但鲍勃寄希望于的太空舱需要全天候的关注。
When you're dealing with equipment that's supposed to last hundreds of years, you want the kind of engineering that goes into building a space capsule.
当您处理的设备应该可以使用数百年时，您需要类似建造太空舱的工程技术。
This was not that.
这不是那样的。
We had to keep a pump, an electronic pump, pulling the vacuum 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
我们必须保留一个泵，一个电子泵，每周 7 天、每天 24 小时抽真空。
At Chatsworth, the temperatures got up to over 100, 110 sometimes.
查茨沃斯 (Chatsworth) 的气温有时会达到 100 华氏度、110 华氏度以上。
And that was death to these vacuum pumps.
这对这些真空泵来说就是致命的。
They couldn't take that heat.
他们受不了那样的高温。
The pumps would burn out, need to be replaced.
泵会烧坏，需要更换。
Then it just got worse and worse and worse.
然后事情变得越来越糟。
I was there, I would say, virtually every day.
我想说，我几乎每天都在那里。
After Bob opened up the tank, it was never quite the same.
鲍勃打开水箱后，情况就不再一样了。
The vacuum was shot, and the liquid nitrogen would boil away to nothing.
真空被抽走，液氮就会蒸发殆尽。
Bob was constantly refilling the tank with coolant at a few hundred bucks a pop.
鲍勃经常以每次几百美元的价格向水箱加注冷却剂。
Sometimes he wrote checks from his personal bank account.
有时他从个人银行账户上写支票。
Sometimes the checks would bounce.
有时支票会被退回。
Meanwhile, he was flying around the country, giving lectures, showing off artist's renderings of the futuristic cryonics facility he planned to build, appearing on radio and TV talk shows-- Regis Philbin, Phil Donahue.
与此同时，他在全国各地飞行，发表演讲，展示他计划建造的未来派人体冷冻设施的艺术家效果图，出现在广播和电视脱口秀节目中——Regis Philbin、Phil Donahue。
The perfusion process-- Sam Shaw Here he is on a local LA newscast.
灌注过程——Sam Shaw 他在洛杉矶当地的新闻广播中。
--protecting the patient biologically for the cold temperatures that he is going to be exposed to.
——从生物学上保护患者免受即将暴露的寒冷温度的影响。
You ever seen or heard the movie Three Faces of Eve?
你看过或听过电影《夏娃的三张脸》吗？
This is the Two Faces of Bob Nelson.
这是鲍勃·纳尔逊的两张面孔。
The dual role of my life was to on the one hand, be a spokesman for cryonics, and then on the other hand was my nightmare responsibility of keeping this antique capsule running.
我一生的双重角色是，一方面是人体冷冻学的代言人，另一方面是我噩梦般的责任，让这个古老的太空舱保持运转。
The publicity worked.
宣传起了作用。
It attracted new people to be frozen, some of them with the ability to pay for it.
它吸引了新的人被冻结，其中一些人有能力支付费用。
Then, in July of 1971, Bob got a call from a Canadian man named Guy, the father of a seven-year-old girl dying of a rare kidney cancer.
然后，在 1971 年 7 月，鲍勃接到了一位名叫盖伊 (Guy) 的加拿大男子的电话，盖伊是一名死于罕见肾癌的 7 岁女孩的父亲。
One day, everything was fine.
有一天，一切都很好。
The next day, doctors were telling him his child had weeks to live.
第二天，医生告诉他，他的孩子还有几周的生命。
The way Guy saw it, it didn't matter if cryonics was a long shot.
在盖伊看来，人体冷冻技术是否成功并不重要。
Bob Nelson presented the only slim hope his daughter had left.
鲍勃·纳尔逊提出了他女儿仅存的唯一渺茫的希望。
Guy didn't have a lot of money, but he managed to fly Genevieve to California, where he got her admitted to a children's hospital.
盖伊没有很多钱，但他设法将吉纳维芙飞往加利福尼亚州，并让她住进了一家儿童医院。
Bob remembers meeting her there.
鲍勃记得在那里见过她。
She was sitting on the bed, and her dad was with her.
她坐在床上，爸爸陪着她。
And she always had the expression of-- it was so sad.
她的表情总是——非常悲伤。
So, so sad.
所以，太悲伤了。
Because she knew how sick she was.
因为她知道自己的病有多严重。
She knew she was dying, and she didn't want to.
她知道自己快要死了，但她不想死。
Did her parents talk to her about the idea of being frozen?
她的父母有没有和她谈论过被冷冻的想法？
Yes, they did.
是的，他们做到了。
And she didn't seem to have much of an opinion one way or the other.
而且她似乎对这一或另一方面没有太多意见。
Because it still meant that she had to die.
因为这仍然意味着她必须死。
And she didn't want to leave her sisters and her family.
她不想离开她的姐妹和家人。
She wanted to go back to school.
她想回学校。
Bob knew he shouldn't be performing another free suspension, but he couldn't help it.
鲍勃知道他不应该再次进行免费暂停，但他无法控制。
He had a daughter of his own just a couple of years older.
他有一个比他大两岁的女儿。
He went to see Genevieve a lot.
他经常去看吉纳维芙。
One day, she made a request.
有一天，她提出了一个要求。
Genevieve only spoke French, so the mother would interpret.
吉纳维芙只会说法语，所以母亲会翻译。
And her mom said, Mr. Nelson, Genevieve wants to ask you a question.
她妈妈说，尼尔森先生，吉纳维芙想问你一个问题。
So I said, what?
所以我说，什么？
And she said, did I know where Disneyland was?
她说，我知道迪士尼乐园在哪里吗？
And I said, yes, I do.
我说，是的，我愿意。
Matter of fact, my buddy Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse work there.
事实上，我的好朋友唐老鸭和米老鼠都在那里工作。
And so she told Genevieve that, and Genevieve, ooh-- like that.
所以她告诉吉纳维芙，吉纳维芙，哦——就像那样。
And I said to her mom, why is-- she said, the doctor said that it'd be OK for her to go because sitting here is not good for her.
我对她妈妈说，为什么——她说，医生说她可以去，因为坐在这里对她不好。
I said, I can't believe it.
我说，我简直不敢相信。
So I said, tell Genevieve, could she be ready to go to Disneyland tomorrow morning?
所以我说，告诉吉纳维芙，她明天早上准备好去迪士尼乐园了吗？
We went the next morning and picked up Genevieve and drove to Disneyland.
第二天早上我们去接了吉纳维芙，然后开车去了迪士尼乐园。
And we got her in a wheelchair and drove her, pushed her around.
我们让她坐在轮椅上，开车送她，推着她四处走动。
And she got in the tea cup and the different things with my young daughter.
她和我的小女儿一起喝了茶杯和不同的东西。
And then, at one point, she was in one of these little kid-- turtle game, I think it was.
然后，有一次，她参加了一场小孩子的乌龟游戏，我想是这样。
And her mom says, Mr. Nelson, Genevieve wants to ask you another question.
她妈妈说，尼尔森先生，吉纳维芙想问你另一个问题。
And I said, sure, what would that be?
我说，当然，那会是什么？
And she said, would I learn French, so that she could talk to me?
她说，我可以学法语吗，这样她就可以和我说话了？
And I said, I will do that just for you.
我说，我会专门为你做这件事。
For a little while, it looked like Genevieve was improving.
有一段时间，吉纳维芙看起来正在好转。
Then one morning, Bob was back at the hospital.
然后一天早上，鲍勃回到了医院。
Guy was sitting on the bed, and he was holding her.
盖伊坐在床上，抱着她。
And oh, I stopped.
哦，我停了下来。
I knew this was a sacred moment.
我知道这是一个神圣的时刻。
And so he looked up, and he said, get the nurse.
于是他抬起头，说，叫护士来。
I think Genevieve has passed.
我认为吉纳维芙已经去世了。
And so I got the nurse, and sure enough, she had passed.
于是我找到了护士，果然，她已经通过了。
So he put her back on the bed, and then it was all business.
于是他把她放回床上，然后就一切正常了。
It was critically important to get her temperature down.
降低她的体温至关重要。
That's the most important thing about a cryonic suspension is that once the heart stops, the temperature has got to drop.
冷冻悬浮液最重要的一点是，一旦心脏停止跳动，温度就必须下降。
Nothing is more important than that.
没有什么比这更重要的了。
They packed her in ice, put her in what's called a body bag.
他们将她包裹在冰块中，放入所谓的裹尸袋中。
It's a plastic bag that they put ice on the bottom.
这是一个塑料袋，他们在底部放了冰。
And then they lay her on that, and then totally cover her body with ice, and put her on a gurney, and put her in the hearse.
然后他们把她放在上面，然后用冰完全覆盖她的身体，把她放在轮床上，然后把她放进灵车里。
So within an hour and a half, she was on the mortuary table, receiving a perfusion and having her temperature further lowered.
一个半小时之内，她就被放在太平间的桌子上，接受灌注，体温进一步降低。
According to Bob, Guy hoped to raise $10,000 to pay for a capsule, but he just couldn't manage.
据鲍勃说，盖伊希望筹集 10,000 美元来支付胶囊费用，但他无法做到。
He had a pile of medical bills and two other kids to worry about.
他有一大堆医疗费用和另外两个孩子需要担心。
So Bob found himself back in the same fix-- short on funds with a couple of bodies in temporary dry ice storage.
因此，鲍勃发现自己又陷入了同样的困境——资金短缺，临时干冰储藏室里有几具尸体。
He did the only thing he knew how to do.
他做了他唯一知道该怎么做的事。
In 1972, Bob arranged to take custody of a cryonics patient named Steven Mandell, who'd been frozen and sealed in a capsule in New York.
1972 年，鲍勃安排看管一位名叫史蒂文·曼德尔 (Steven Mandell) 的人体冷冻患者，他被冷冻并密封在纽约的一个胶囊中。
It was the Marie Bowers capsule all over again.
这又是玛丽·鲍尔斯的胶囊系列。
He opened it up, added Genevieve and another woman he'd frozen, Mildred Harris, and welded it shut again.
他打开了它，加上吉纳维芙和另一个被他冷冻的女人米尔德里德·哈里斯，然后又把它焊上了。
By now, the first capsule was breaking down more or less constantly.
到现在为止，第一个胶囊或多或少地在不断地破裂。
And Bob had hit a wall.
鲍勃碰壁了。
The way he describes it, it's as if he was the captain of a sinking ship, throwing cargo over the side to stay afloat.
按照他的描述，他就像一艘正在下沉的船的船长，将货物抛到一边以保持漂浮。
He couldn't save them all.
他无法拯救他们所有人。
And so he'd come to a decision.
所以他做出了决定。
He would let the first capsule fail.
他会让第一个太空舱失败。
This much is clear.
这一点就很清楚了。
He kept it a secret.
他保守了这个秘密。
The second capsule was practically as bad as the first, constantly malfunctioning, boiling off liquid nitrogen.
第二个胶囊实际上和第一个一样糟糕，不断发生故障，液氮沸腾。
But Bob kept it going.
但鲍勃继续坚持下去。
Then a few years later, he had to leave town for a week.
几年后，他不得不离开小镇一周。
He paid a groundskeeper $100 to babysit the capsule, and the pump broke.
他付给场地管理员 100 美元来照看胶囊，结果泵坏了。
And when the groundskeeper called a company to fix it, they never showed.
当场地管理员打电话给一家公司来修理它时，他们却没有出现。
I came back, drove up to the vault, looked at the capsule.
我回来了，开车到金库，看了看太空舱。
There's a nozzle that comes out of the capsule that has steam, visible, because the liquid nitrogen is evaporating away.
胶囊中有一个喷嘴，里面有可见的蒸汽，因为液氮正在蒸发。
And when I drove up and I looked, that steam wasn't there.
当我开车过去一看时，蒸汽已经不存在了。
So I just didn't want to acknowledge what that meant.
所以我只是不想承认这意味着什么。
But the test was to go and touch that pipe, and if it was cold, then there was some hope.
但测试是去摸那根管子，如果它是冷的，那就还有希望。
That meant that it was still cold inside.
这意味着里面仍然很冷。
And then, going through my mind, what if it's hot?
然后我脑子里想的是，如果天气很热怎么办？
What if those bodies have decomposed?
如果那些尸体腐烂了怎么办？
So I walk up to the capsule.
于是我走向胶囊。
I put my finger on it.
我把手指放在上面。
And it was like touching a hot frying pan.
就像触摸热煎锅一样。
It was the most painful, emotional experience of my life.
这是我一生中最痛苦、最情绪化的经历。
I had failed that little girl.
我辜负了那个小女孩。
I promised her dad.
我答应过她爸爸。
And she was gone.
而她却不见了。
Bob says he immediately flew to Montreal to tell Genevieve's father in person.
鲍勃说，他立即飞往蒙特利尔亲自告诉吉纳维芙的父亲。
In Montreal, though, is where the story really starts to get interesting.
然而，在蒙特利尔，故事才真正开始变得有趣。
And that's coming up in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台将立即播放这一内容。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Mistakes Were Made.
今天的节目，犯了错误。
Sam Shaw's story about Bob Nelson continues.
萨姆·肖 (Sam Shaw) 关于鲍勃·尼尔森 (Bob Nelson) 的故事仍在继续。
Bob has just discovered that his second freezing capsule has failed.
鲍勃刚刚发现他的第二个冷冻胶囊失效了。
Liquid nitrogen has leaked out.
液氮泄漏了。
And he says the first person that he went to tell was the little girl, Genevieve's father.
他说他第一个去告诉的人是那个小女孩，吉纳维芙的父亲。
So he met me at the airport in a little snack shop, coffee shop.
所以他在机场的一家小小吃店、咖啡店接了我。
He was right in my face instantly.
他立刻就出现在我面前。
What happened?
发生了什么？
And I tried to tell him as gently as I could.
我试着尽可能温和地告诉他。
Then when he pressed me, how many days?
那他压我的时候，多少天了？
How long?
多长时间？
I said, I don't know.
我说，我不知道。
Three, four, five?
三、四、五？
I don't know.
我不知道。
And what he said just totally blew me away.
他的话让我彻底震惊了。
He said, well, I guess we'll just have to start it up again and continue on.
他说，好吧，我想我们只能重新开始并继续。
And I said, OK.
我说，好吧。
I think I should have fought it out with him right there, but I didn't.
我想我应该当场与他决斗，但我没有。
I turned around and walked away.
我转身走开。
Cowardly, I think.
我认为是胆怯。
He was shook.
他很震惊。
He left, and I could see his face was red.
他走了，我看到他的脸红了。
He was upset.
他很沮丧。
Next, Bob says he flew to see Terry Harris, whose mother, Mildred Harris, was in the second capsule with Genevieve and whose father, Gaylord, was also in the vault.
接下来，鲍勃说他飞去看特里·哈里斯，特里·哈里斯的母亲米尔德里德·哈里斯和吉纳维芙一起在第二个太空舱里，而他的父亲盖洛德也在金库里。
And he met me at the airport and introduced me to his wife.
他在机场接了我，并将我介绍给他的妻子。
I told him what happened.
我告诉他发生了什么事。
And he just said, oh.
他只是说，哦。
Well, did you fill it up again?
嗯，你又填了吗？
I said, yeah.
我说，是的。
So he essentially said the same thing that Guy said.
所以他基本上说了盖伊说的同样的话。
It's almost like he didn't care.
就好像他根本不在乎。
I mean, no, no, no, let me take that back.
我的意思是，不，不，不，让我收回那句话。
Not that he didn't care-- no, it was more like, oh, well.
并不是说他不在乎——不，这更像是，哦，好吧。
Far enough into the future, they'll be able to fix that, too.
在足够远的未来，他们也将能够解决这个问题。
A few days after Bob told me a story, I talked on the phone with Genevieve's father, Guy.
鲍勃给我讲了一个故事几天后，我和吉纳维芙的父亲盖伊通了电话。
He was polite, and I must say, very patient with my questions.
我必须说，他很有礼貌，对我的问题非常耐心。
But he didn't want to be interviewed on the radio.
但他不想接受广播采访。
The memory of Genevieve's death and suspension was just too painful.
吉纳维芙的死亡和停职的记忆实在是太痛苦了。
He said a little ruefully that the whole idea of cryonics might be a moot point, anyway, given the state of the world.
他有点遗憾地说，考虑到世界的现状，人体冷冻学的整个想法可能是一个没有实际意义的问题。
The way things were going, even if the science panned out, there might not be a future to return to.
按照事情的发展方向，即使科学成功，也可能没有未来可回。
And then he told me something else.
然后他又告诉了我一些别的事情。
That meeting at the airport Bob remembered so vividly, Guy said it never happened.
鲍勃在机场的那次会面记忆犹新，盖伊说这从未发生过。
So next, I contacted Terry Harris, and I told him Bob's version of what transpired.
接下来，我联系了特里·哈里斯，并告诉他鲍勃对所发生事情的看法。
Terry, as you know, Bob tells this very detailed story about coming to tell you that the capsule--
特里，如你所知，鲍勃讲述了这个非常详细的故事，告诉你胶囊——
Terry says Bob never told him about the failure of the capsule.
特里说鲍勃从未告诉过他太空舱发生故障的事。
He had to hear about it from an article in the California newspaper that his aunt sent him in Des Moines.
他必须从得梅因的姨妈寄给他的加州报纸上的一篇文章中得知这件事。
They said in the article that the machinery had broken down.
他们在文章中说，机器坏了。
And it was just incredulous.
这简直令人难以置信。
I just couldn't believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
So I called Bob, and he assured me that everything was fine.
所以我打电话给鲍勃，他向我保证一切都很好。
And the paper was just trying to generate a sensational readership.
这篇论文只是想引起轰动的读者群。
And so I never saw him.
所以我从来没有见过他。
I just talked to him on the phone at that point.
那时我刚刚通过电话与他交谈。
Right.
正确的。
So there was never a time when Bob flew out and met with you at the airport?
那么鲍勃从来没有飞出去并在机场与您会面吗？
No. That would have been the right and honorable thing to do.
不，那是正确而光荣的事情。
And I wish it had occurred.
我希望它发生了。
But it's just not accurate.
但这并不准确。
Terry Harris was in his early 20s when he met Bob Nelson.
特里·哈里斯 (Terry Harris) 认识鲍勃·尼尔森 (Bob Nelson) 时才 20 岁出头。
He'd lost both his parents in a span of three months.
三个月内他就失去了双亲。
And cryonics had seemed like this great thing he could give them in return.
而人体冷冻技术似乎是他可以给予他们的伟大回报。
He sometimes imagined what it would be like when they were all reunited as a family in some distant, dreamlike future.
他有时会想象，当他们一家人在某个遥远的、梦幻般的未来团聚时，会是什么样子。
It gave him hope.
这给了他希望。
And then everything had gone so wrong.
然后一切都变得非常糟糕。
So I called Bob, and I told him about my conversations with Guy and Terry.
所以我打电话给鲍勃，告诉他我与盖伊和特里的谈话。
He was shocked, and he stuck to his story.
他很震惊，但他坚持自己的故事。
Later that day, he sent me a long pained email, calling the situation a heart-wrenching predicament.
那天晚些时候，他给我发了一封长长的、痛苦的电子邮件，称这种情况令人心碎。
He called Terry Harris a liar.
他称特里·哈里斯是个骗子。
But Guy was another matter.
但盖伊却是另一回事。
Bob said he was devastated that Guy didn't remember their talk in the Montreal airport.
鲍勃说，盖伊不记得他们在蒙特利尔机场的谈话，这让他感到非常震惊。
He wondered if it was possible that Guy had repressed the memory.
他想知道盖伊是否有可能压抑了这段记忆。
Then I spoke to him a few days later, and he offered this take.
几天后我和他交谈，他提出了这个建议。
I would say this about that, that if Guy said that I never came to the airport in Montreal, then he's right.
我想说的是，如果盖伊说我从未去过蒙特利尔机场，那么他是对的。
I have to concede that it's possible that what happened-- because I've been mulling this over for the past few days.
我必须承认发生的事情是有可能的——因为过去几天我一直在思考这个问题。
It's possible what I'm remembering is going through this scenario with him over the phone.
我记得的可能是通过电话与他经历过这个场景。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, when you talked about it, it sounded so vivid.
我的意思是，当你谈论它时，听起来很生动。
You remember it being in a sandwich shop and--
你记得那是在一家三明治店里——
Well, in my mind, I must have been over it 1,000 times.
嗯，在我看来，我一定已经重复了 1000 遍了。
What it was going to be like to face him, to talk to him.
面对他、与他交谈会是什么样子。
And it was just the horror of my life because it just-- so anyway, I have to agree that most likely, I didn't go to Montreal.
这就是我一生中的恐怖，因为它只是——所以无论如何，我必须同意，我很可能没有去蒙特利尔。
To be clear, Guy says he never heard from Bob at all-- no visit, no phone call, nothing.
需要明确的是，盖伊说他根本没有收到鲍勃的消息——没有来访，没有打电话，什么也没有。
I'm just wondering if, when you look at that memory, that seems like it was a faulty memory, if it gives you any pause and makes you wonder whether there are other parts of this set of memories that you have that may also not be totally trustworthy.
我只是想知道，当你查看那段记忆时，是否会觉得它是一个错误的记忆，它是否会让你停下来，让你怀疑你所拥有的这组记忆中是否还有其他部分可能也不完全值得信赖。
Other parts?
其他部分？
Such as?
例如？
Sam Shaw Well, such as Terry Harris.
萨姆·肖 嗯，比如特里·哈里斯。
No. Sam, I'm never going to budge one speck from that.
不，萨姆，我永远不会改变这一点。
You need to believe what you need to believe, Sam.
你需要相信你需要相信的，山姆。
I'm only telling you that I'm telling you what I-- and there would be no reason for me to make up that I went to see Terry Harris and them.
我只是告诉你，我告诉你的是我——而且我没有理由弥补我去看了特里·哈里斯和他们。
That's not part of the story.
这不是故事的一部分。
That isn't important to my story.
这对我的故事来说并不重要。
But don't you think that there might be a reason why it would be important for you to believe that you went out and had those conversations with them face to face?
但是，您是否不认为可能有一个理由让您相信您出去并与他们面对面地进行了这些对话？
How do you defend yourself-- I don't know.
你如何保护自己——我不知道。
How do you defend yourself against something that's not true?
你如何保护自己免受不真实的事情的侵害？
I don't know.
我不知道。
What's clear is that Bob's convinced he did right by Terry and Guy, and Terry and Guy are equally convinced that he didn't.
很明显，鲍勃确信他对特里和盖伊的做法是正确的，而特里和盖伊同样确信他没有这样做。
If it sounds like Bob is harder on Terry than he is on Guy, there's one more thing you have to understand.
如果听起来鲍勃对特里比对盖伊更严厉，那么您还必须了解一件事。
When the truth about the two failed capsules and the nine bodies in the vault finally came to light, when all those hard decisions Bob had made on the fly became sound bites on the 10 o'clock news, there wasn't just a public reckoning.
当两个失败的太空舱和金库中的九具尸体的真相最终大白于天下时，当鲍勃在飞行中做出的所有艰难决定都成为 10 点新闻的原声片段时，不仅仅是公众清算。
There was a trial.
有一次审判。
Terry and his brother were two of the plaintiffs, and they won to the tune of $800,000.
特里和他的兄弟是两名原告，他们赢得了 80 万美元的赔偿。
The half they actually collected came out of mortician Joe Klockgether's malpractice insurance.
他们实际收取的一半来自殡葬师乔·克洛克格瑟的医疗事故保险。
In 1979, the Harris brothers flew out to California to meet an attorney who led them to the vault at Chatsworth, along with a local TV news team.
1979 年，哈里斯兄弟飞往加利福尼亚州会见一位律师，律师带领他们和当地电视新闻团队来到查茨沃斯金库。
By that point, Bob had washed his hands of the Cryonics Society.
到那时，鲍勃已经不再与人体冷冻学会断绝关系了。
He was dead broke, and his marriage had fallen apart.
他身无分文，婚姻也破裂了。
And he just walked away.
他就走开了。
And for the first time, Terry saw the reality of his parents' situation with his own eyes.
而特里第一次亲眼看到了父母的真实处境。
Well, the door in the facility was made of steel.
嗯，设施的门是钢制的。
And it was then chained and padlocked closed.
然后它被拴起来并用挂锁关闭。
The chain was rusty, and there was grass growing around that door where, before, it wasn't.
铁链生锈了，门周围长出了青草，而以前却没有。
And our attorney brought a pair of bolt cutters, and removed that lock and chain, and slid the door back.
我们的律师拿来一把断线钳，拆下锁和链条，然后把门推回去。
And we went down, and you could just see that there was a piece of equipment here and there, and the capsule lid open.
我们下去了，你可以看到到处都有一个设备，而且舱盖打开了。
And it was unbearable, just unbearable.
而且实在是难以忍受，简直难以忍受。
And I was just-- I was just numb.
我只是——我只是麻木了。
Just numb.
只是麻木了。
Well, I couldn't look inside that capsule, but I just backed away when I realized that there were just remains inside.
好吧，我无法看到那个胶囊的内部，但当我意识到里面只有残骸时，我就向后退了一步。
We brought flowers.
我们带了花。
And so we laid them there by the capsule, and then I just went up the stairs and left.
所以我们把它们放在胶囊旁边，然后我就上楼梯离开了。
I felt guilty because I should have been there night and day, which, of course, isn't very realistic.
我感到内疚，因为我应该日日夜夜地呆在那里，当然，这是不太现实的。
But at the time, I felt very guilty.
但当时我的内心是非常愧疚的。
Here's the entrance.
这里是入口。
This is the management office over here.
这是这里的管理办公室。
I mean, it looks identical to the day that I was here 40 years ago.
我的意思是，它看起来和 40 年前我在这里的日子一模一样。
This little shack was here.
这个小棚屋就在这里。
This chapel was exactly the same.
这座教堂一模一样。
Bob and I drove out the cemetery in Chatsworth on a sunny afternoon in March.
三月一个阳光明媚的下午，鲍勃和我开车出了查茨沃斯的墓地。
We spent about an hour wandering the grounds, Bob pointing out landmarks and citing names and dates like a breezy tour guide.
我们花了大约一个小时在场地上闲逛，鲍勃像一位轻松的导游一样指出地标并引用名字和日期。
He said it felt good to be back.
他说回来的感觉很好。
Oakwood is a really beautiful spot, a rolling park surrounded by jagged sandstone hilltops.
奥克伍德是一个非常美丽的地方，一个连绵起伏的公园，周围环绕着锯齿状的砂岩山顶。
Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers are buried there.
弗雷德·阿斯泰尔和金杰·罗杰斯埋葬于此。
And the cemetery staff will point you to the grave sites of a half dozen lesser stars.
墓地工作人员会带您前往六颗较小恒星的墓地。
But none of the groundskeepers we talked to had ever heard of a cryonics facility there.
但我们采访过的场地管理员都没有听说过那里有人体冷冻设施。
And really, it's no surprise.
确实，这并不奇怪。
Where the vault used to be, there's just an empty swath of grass-- no padlocked opening, no monument or plaque.
过去金库所在的地方，只有一片空草地——没有上锁的开口，也没有纪念碑或牌匾。
See where the ground rises up over here?
看到这里地面升起的地方了吗？
This was where the vault is.
这就是金库所在的地方。
See where these-- they've put two benches right here.
看看这些——他们在这里放了两张长凳。
Bob says all but two of the people he froze are still sealed in the vault, now covered over with sod.
鲍勃说，除了两个被他冷冻的人外，其他人仍然被密封在金库里，现在上面覆盖着草皮。
But the cemetery management tells a different story.
但墓地管理层却讲述了一个不同的故事。
They say the bodies were all disinterred years ago, which leaves one final question.
他们说这些尸体几年前就被挖掘出来了，这就留下了最后一个问题。
Again, Terry Harris.
再说一遍，特里·哈里斯。
You have no idea where they're buried now?
你不知道他们现在埋在哪里吗？
No. No. The management of the cemetery said, well, they're gone.
不，不，墓地的管理人员说，好吧，他们走了。
And I said, well, what do you mean gone?
我说，好吧，你说消失是什么意思？
And he said, well, one day, a big pickup truck came up there and disinterred them, and took them away.
他说，好吧，有一天，一辆大皮卡车开过来，把它们挖出来，然后把它们运走。
And he said he didn't have any legal permit to do that.
他说他没有任何法律许可这样做。
They didn't provide anything.
他们没有提供任何东西。
Now, doesn't that sound outlandish to you?
现在，这对你来说不觉得很奇怪吗？
This is where all Bob's secrets and lies about the bodies finally led-- to Terry Harris making phone calls, writing letters, combing through legal documents.
这就是鲍勃关于尸体的所有秘密和谎言最终导致的地方——特里·哈里斯打电话、写信、梳理法律文件。
Somewhere he figured there had to be a record-- a clue that would tell him what had become of his parents.
他认为某个地方一定有一个记录——一条可以告诉他父母发生了什么的线索。
He's never found it.
他从来没有找到过。
Cryonics carried on without Bob Nelson.
人体冷冻学在没有鲍勃·尼尔森的情况下继续进行。
And all these years later, when people in the field tell Bob's story, they call it the Chatsworth disaster.
这么多年过去了，当现场的人们讲述鲍勃的故事时，他们称之为查茨沃斯灾难。
On cryonics discussion boards, he's been labeled a murderer-- though, of course, all the people he supposedly killed were dead to begin with.
在人体冷冻学讨论板上，他被贴上了杀人犯的标签——当然，所有被他杀死的人一开始就已经死了。
When Bob talks about those years, he says he's gotten a bad rap.
当鲍勃谈到那些年时，他说他的名声很差。
He genuinely seems to feel bad about failing Genevieve and her family, and for dragging the mortician, Joe Klockgether, through the trial.
他似乎真的为吉纳维芙和她的家人的失败以及拖累殡葬师乔·克洛克格瑟（Joe Klockgether）接受审判而感到难过。
But just as emphatically, he'll tell you that his main mistake was caring too much.
但同样强调的是，他会告诉你他的主要错误是过于关心。
That the secrets he kept were necessary to keep the project going.
他保守的秘密对于保持项目的进行是必要的。
And above all, that the people he froze had donated their bodies under the Anatomical Gift Act.
最重要的是，他冷冻的人是根据《解剖捐赠法》捐献了尸体的。
Which meant that they donated their body to the Cryonics Society of California.
这意味着他们将遗体捐赠给加州人体冷冻学会。
And according to my attorney, we could grind them up for hamburger if that's what we wanted to do.
据我的律师说，如果我们愿意的话，我们可以把它们磨碎做汉堡。
We were given the right by the state of California to carry on research and do whatever we wanted in the perfection of suspended animation.
加利福尼亚州赋予我们进行研究的权利，并为完善假死而做任何我们想做的事情。
And so we just felt that there's no need to be telling other people.
所以我们只是觉得没有必要告诉其他人。
I mean, I could have just locked that capsule, that vault up, and not told anybody that we'd stop putting liquid nitrogen in there.
我的意思是，我本可以锁住那个胶囊，那个拱顶，而不是告诉任何人我们将停止在里面放液氮。
That probably could have gone on until today.
这种情况可能会一直持续到今天。
You know?
你知道？
But at some point, I had to settle back down to reality.
但在某些时候，我不得不回到现实。
Bob says a lot depends on your perspective.
鲍勃说很多事情取决于你的观点。
If the science of cryonics pans out, it'll be possible to look at Genevieve, and Mildred Harris, and Helen Kline as casualties of progress-- or as Bob calls them, frozen heroes.
如果人体冷冻学得到证实，人们就有可能将吉纳维芙、米尔德里德·哈里斯和海伦·克莱恩视为进步的牺牲品——或者用鲍勃的话说，他们是冰冻英雄。
Bob's not a rich guy, but he's managed to save $28,000 to pay for his own freezing at the Cryonics Institute in Michigan.
鲍勃不是一个有钱人，但他设法攒下了 28,000 美元，用于支付自己在密歇根人体冷冻研究所的冷冻费用。
He thinks his odds of reanimation are pretty good.
他认为自己复活的几率相当大。
And in the end, that's the thing that sustains him-- the hope that someday, in 50 years, or 100, or 1,000, he'll wake up in a world he barely recognizes.
最终，这就是支撑他的东西——希望有一天，50年、100年、1000年后，他会在一个他几乎不认识的世界中醒来。
A world where Chatsworth wasn't a disaster, but the first imperfect battle in the war that saved us all.
在这个世界里，查茨沃斯并不是一场灾难，而是拯救了我们所有人的战争中第一场不完美的战斗。
Sam Shaw-- his regular job, he writes for television.
萨姆·肖（Sam Shaw）——他的日常工作是为电视撰稿。
Bob Nelson published a memoir about his years in cryonics.
鲍勃·尼尔森出版了一本关于他多年来从事人体冷冻学的回忆录。
It's called Freezing People is Not Easy.
这就是所谓的“冷冻人并不容易”。
Today's show is a rerun, actually, from 2008.
今天的节目实际上是 2008 年的重播。
And years after we first ran this episode, Bob died.
在我们第一次播放这一集几年后，鲍勃去世了。
That was in June 2018.
那是在 2018 年 6 月。
And as for his body, it took some time, but his family raised the money to honor his wishes.
至于他的尸体，也花了一些时间，但他的家人筹集了资金来满足他的愿望。
Bob is awaiting reanimation at the Cryonics Institute in Clinton Township, Michigan, alongside his hero, Robert Ettinger.
鲍勃正在密歇根州克林顿镇的人体冷冻研究所与他的英雄罗伯特·埃丁格一起等待复活。
His old friend and co-defendant, the mortician, Joe Klockgether, oversaw his suspension.
他的老朋友兼共同被告、殡葬师 Joe Klockgether 负责监督他的停职。
Act Two, You're Willing to Sacrifice Our Love.
第二幕，你愿意牺牲我们的爱。
So one of our producers, Sean Cole-- when we came up with this idea to do an episode about people who were apologizing without fully apologizing, he pointed out this poem, which is basically that in a nutshell.
因此，我们的一位制片人肖恩·科尔（Sean Cole）——当我们想出制作一集关于那些正在道歉但没有完全道歉的人的剧集时，他指出了这首诗，简而言之，这首诗基本上就是这样。
In addition to making radio, Sean is a published poet.
除了制作广播之外，肖恩还是一位出版诗人。
So the poem's by William Carlos Williams.
这首诗是威廉·卡洛斯·威廉姆斯的。
And it's a poem that's taught a lot in all sorts of poetry classes everywhere and, particularly, elementary schools, which is where I heard about it.
这首诗在世界各地的各种诗歌课上都被广泛教授，特别是在小学，我就是在那里听说过它的。
And the way it was taught to me was that it was an actual note that William Carlos Williams left for his wife.
我学到的方式是，这是威廉·卡洛斯·威廉姆斯留给他妻子的一张真实的纸条。
And I always sort of imagined it sitting there on the kitchen table, waiting for her.
我总是想象它坐在厨房的桌子上，等待着她。
Right.
正确的。
Sean Cole And it's called, "This Is Just to Say." "I have eaten the plums that were in the ice box and which you were probably saving for breakfast.
肖恩·科尔 这就是所谓的“这只是为了说”。 “我已经吃掉了冰箱里的李子，你可能会把它们留作早餐。
Forgive me.
请原谅我。
They were delicious, so sweet and so cold."
它们非常美味，又甜又冷。”
What's funny about the poem is that he never really apologizes.
这首诗的有趣之处在于他从未真正道歉。
He never apologizes.
他从不道歉。
He says forgive me, which is kind of a command.
他说原谅我，这是一种命令。
And so I feel like it's like, oh, I ate the plums, and that was a bad thing.
所以我觉得，哦，我吃了李子，那是一件坏事。
But I'm not sorry I did it.
但我并不后悔我这么做了。
It's interesting to me that it makes you mad.
我觉得有趣的是它让你生气。
The thing that really breaks my heart is that she was saving them.
真正让我心碎的是她正在拯救他们。
And when he says probably saving them for breakfast, he knew she was saving them for breakfast.
当他说可能把它们留起来当早餐时，他知道她是把它们留起来当早餐。
There's no probably about it.
没有什么可能。
They live together.
他们住在一起。
Now, this is a poem that is often imitated?
现在，这是一首经常被模仿的诗？
Imitated.
模仿的。
Spoofed by many a poet.
被许多诗人所恶搞。
It's kind of become a game among poets to write a version of "This Is Just to Say." My favorite one is by a poet named Kenneth Koch.
写一个版本的“只是为了说”已经成为诗人之间的一种游戏。我最喜欢的是一位名叫肯尼斯·科赫（Kenneth Koch）的诗人的作品。
OK, let's hear him.
好吧，让我们听听他的说法。
Sean Cole "I chopped down the house that you had been saving to live in next summer.
肖恩·科尔：“我砍掉了你为明年夏天准备居住的房子。
I am sorry.
对不起。
But it was morning, and I had nothing to do.
但当时是早上，我无事可做。
And its wooden beams were so inviting." "Last evening we went dancing, and I broke your leg.
它的木梁非常吸引人。” “昨晚我们去跳舞，我摔断了你的腿。
Forgive me.
请原谅我。
I was clumsy, and I wanted you here in the wards where I am the doctor."
我很笨拙，我希望你在我担任医生的病房里。”
That story has everything, that last one.
那个故事包含了一切，最后一个。
It really does.
确实如此。
It's an entire novel in three lines.
这是一部三行完整的小说。
So my favorite of all the variations on this is written by a student named Andrew-- maybe it's pronounced Vech-ee-oh-nay?
因此，在这方面的所有变体中，我最喜欢的是一位名叫安德鲁的学生写的——也许它的发音是Vech-ee-oh-nay？
Veck-ee-oh-nay, maybe.
Veck-ee-oh-nay，也许吧。
Ira Glass Veck-ee-oh-nay, maybe.
Ira Glass Veck-ee-oh-nay，也许吧。
And could I ask you to read that?
我可以请你读一下吗？
It's called "Sorry, But It Was Beautiful."
它的名字是“对不起，但它很美丽”。
Yeah.
是的。
"Sorry I took your money and burned it, but it looked like the world falling apart when it crackled and burned.
“抱歉，我拿了你的钱并烧掉了它，但当它噼啪燃烧时，看起来就像世界崩溃了。
So I think it was worth it.
所以我认为这是值得的。
After all, you can't see the world fall apart every day."
毕竟，你不可能每天都看到世界分崩离析。”
That's the work of sixth grader Andrew Vecchione from a book by Kenneth Koch about teaching poetry to kids, in which he has them write their own versions of "This Is Just to Say." The book is called Rose, Where Did You Get That Red?
这是六年级学生安德鲁·维奇奥内 (Andrew Vecchione) 的作品，摘自肯尼思·科赫 (Kenneth Koch) 写的一本关于教孩子们诗歌的书，书中他让孩子们写出自己版本的“This Is Just to Say”。这本书的名字叫《玫瑰，你从哪里得到那红色的？》
Sean Cole says the poetry book of his that is easiest to find-- and he has assured me that it is not easy at all-- it's called ITTY CITY.
肖恩·科尔说他的诗集最容易找到——他向我保证这根本不容易——它的名字叫《ITTY CITY》。
We asked some of our regular contributors to do their own variations on the poem.
我们要求一些定期撰稿人对这首诗进行自己的变体。
Here they are.
他们在这里。
"This Is Just to Say," by Sarah Vowell.
莎拉·沃威尔的《这只是说说而已》。
I carved your name, not mine, into the arm of dad's chair.
我把你的名字，而不是我的名字，刻在爸爸椅子的扶手上。
Sorry you were punished, but the wood was so gummy, and my knife was so sharp.
抱歉你受到了惩罚，但是木头很粘，而我的刀又很锋利。
"This Is Just to Say," by David Rakoff.
大卫·拉考夫的《这只是说说而已》。
At our wedding, I disappeared briefly to have sex with your sister up against the back of the Portosans.
在我们的婚礼上，我短暂地消失了，在波托桑队的背上和你妹妹发生了性关系。
What can I say?
我能说什么？
The chardonnay was so fresh and cold, and I, so full of love and a sense of family.
霞多丽是那么新鲜、冰凉，而我，是那么充满爱和家庭感。
And I said, I'm sure one day we'll laugh about this.
我说，我相信有一天我们会为此而大笑。
Well, by one day, I meant that day.
嗯，我说的有一天，是指那一天。
And by we, I meant me.
我所说的“我们”是指我自己。
And by laugh, I meant laugh.
我所说的笑，是指笑。
"This Is Just to Say," by Starlee Kine.
斯塔莉·凯恩的《这只是想说》。
One, I chose the other girl.
一，我选择了另一个女孩。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
It's not just that I'm more attracted to her.
这不仅仅是因为我对她更感兴趣。
It's also that she is more interesting.
也是因为她比较有趣。
Two, I used your dog as an excuse to pick up girls at the dog park, which is especially tacky since I'm your boyfriend.
第二，我以你的狗为借口去狗公园接女孩，这特别俗气，因为我是你的男朋友。
Please forgive me.
请原谅我。
I'm really bad at being in a relationship, and I'm pretty sure I told you that when we first got together.
我真的不擅长处理恋爱关系，而且我很确定我们第一次在一起时我就告诉过你了。
"This Is Just to Say," by Jonathan Goldstein.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦的《这只是想说》。
This is just to say I have eaten the fruit of knowledge, but nothing happened.
这只是说我吃了知识的果实，但什么也没发生。
Not a word, no lightning or volcanoes, not even a drop of rain.
没有一句话，没有闪电，没有火山，甚至连一滴雨也没有。
So I was just wondering, are you there?
所以我只是想知道，你在吗？
"This Is Just to Say," by Shalom Auslander.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德（Shalom Auslander）的《这只是说说而已》。
One, I'm sorry you're overweight and drinking, and feeling like everything in your life is doomed to failure.
第一，我很抱歉你超重、酗酒，感觉你生活中的一切都注定要失败。
But this is probably why Mom said I was her favorite.
但这可能就是为什么妈妈说我是她最喜欢的。
Two, it sucks, little doe, that I hit you with my car, but at least you weren't alive to watch the hunters shoot your children.
第二，小母鹿，我用车撞了你，这太糟糕了，但至少你不能活着看着猎人射杀你的孩子。
Three, he was a troublemaker, OK?
第三，他是个麻烦制造者，好吗？
And didn't know when to shut up.
并且不知道什么时候该闭嘴。
Still, we never would have killed him if we'd known he was the Lord.
尽管如此，如果我们知道他是主，我们就不会杀他。
"This Is Just to Say," by Heather O'Neill.
希瑟·奥尼尔的《这只是说说而已》。
Dear Mom, this is just to say I forgive you for eating all the plums, the apples, the pears, and even drinking the last of the orange juice.
亲爱的妈妈，我只是想说，我原谅您吃了所有的李子、苹果、梨，甚至喝完了最后的橙汁。
I forgive you for emptying Dad's bank account and for painting stars on our station wagon right before you got in and drove away.
我原谅你在上车开车离开之前掏空了爸爸的银行账户并在我们的旅行车上画了星星。
I forgive you for leaving us without even saying goodbye.
我原谅你连再见都没有离开我们。
Your plans were always so sweet, so delicious, and so cold.
你的计划总是那么甜蜜、那么美味、那么冷酷。
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Sarah Koenig and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Jane Marie, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
图片来源 Ira Glass 我们今天的节目由 Sarah Koenig 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Jane Marie、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 制作。
Senior producer for today's show is Julie Snyder.
今天节目的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Seth Lind.
Seth Lind 提供制作帮助。
Music help today from Jessica Hopper.
今天杰西卡·霍珀的音乐帮助。
Additional help on today's rerun from Bim Adewunmi, Aviva DeKornfeld, Jarrett Floyd, Stowe Nelson, and Matt Tierney.
Bim Adewunmi、Aviva DeKornfeld、Jarrett Floyd、Stowe Nelson 和 Matt Tierney 对今天的重播提供了额外帮助。
Thanks today to Dave Dickerson and Chris Gethard, David Rakoff, one of our longtime contributors who wrote a variation of "This Is Just to Say," in that last act, he died back in 2012.
今天，要感谢戴夫·迪克森 (Dave Dickerson) 和克里斯·格哈德 (Chris Gethard)、大卫·拉考夫 (David Rakoff)，我们的长期贡献者之一，他在最后一幕中写了《This Is Just to Say》的变体，他于 2012 年去世。
He is not frozen, but his books are still out there.
他没有被冻结，但他的书仍然在那里。
Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org.
我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who reminds you, don't mess with him.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他提醒您，不要惹他。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。