344: The Competition - This American Life

You are using an outdated browser.

您正在使用过时的浏览器。

Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.

请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。

Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”

注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。

00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #344 | November 30, 2007 344: The Competition Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 344 集 | 2007 年 11 月 30 日 344：竞赛说明：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass Some businesses and some businessmen just press things further than other people are willing to go.

序言 Ira Glass 一些企业和一些商人只是把事情做得比其他人愿意做的更进一步。

John Nash Pickle grew up poor on a farm in Mississippi, learned to work with steel, started his own company in 1972 with a few thousand dollars.

约翰·纳什·皮克尔 (John Nash Pickle) 在密西西比州的一个农场长大，家境贫寒，学会了钢铁加工，并于 1972 年用几千美元创办了自己的公司。

And he did well.

他做得很好。

The John Pickle Company became a multimillion-dollar business based in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

约翰·皮克公司 (John Pickle Company) 成为一家价值数百万美元的企业，总部位于俄克拉荷马州塔尔萨。

They manufactured these huge 200-ton steel tanks that are used in the oil business and other big industrial processes.

他们制造了这些巨大的 200 吨钢罐，用于石油业务和其他大型工业流程。

Until the 1990s, reporter John Bowe says, when Pickle found himself competing against foreign companies who were stealing a lot of his potential customers.

记者约翰·鲍 (John Bowe) 表示，直到 20 世纪 90 年代，Pickle 发现自己正在与外国公司竞争，这些公司抢走了他的大量潜在客户。

Even down the road, a few miles from him, they won a contract that he was bidding for on a pressure tank for some utility company literally 10 miles from his factory.

甚至在距离他几英里的路上，他们赢得了一份合同，他正在为距离他工厂 10 英里的一家公用事业公司投标一个压力罐。

So he saw these companies coming in from thousands of miles away and he thought, well, he just couldn't keep up, because they didn't have all these pollution regulations and taxes and stuff that poor American manufacturers like himself had to deal with.

所以他看到这些公司从千里之外涌来，他想，好吧，他就是跟不上，因为他们没有像他这样的贫穷的美国制造商必须处理的所有这些污染法规和税收以及其他东西。

So at first, Pickle decided to do what so many US companies have done.

因此，一开始，Pickle 决定效仿许多美国公司的做法。

He'd open his own factory overseas.

他会在海外开设自己的工厂。

He'd manufacture his steel tanks near the oil fields in Kuwait, in a joint venture with the Kuwaitis.

他与科威特人成立了一家合资企业，在科威特油田附近制造钢制储罐。

And the way these kinds of factories are run in Kuwait, apparently, the workers aren't Kuwaiti or American.

显然，这些工厂在科威特的运作方式，工人不是科威特人或美国人。

They bring in labor from the Philippines and Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.

他们从菲律宾、巴基斯坦、印度和孟加拉国引进劳动力。

Pickle hired a recruiting agency in India to find him qualified workers, which they did.

Pickle 在印度聘请了一家招聘机构为他寻找合格的工人，他们也这么做了。

They sent two groups of workers, 27 of them in all, to Tulsa for a few months training in Pickle's main plant.

他们派出两批工人（总共 27 人）前往塔尔萨，在 Pickle 的主工厂接受几个月的培训。

And then they were shipped out to Kuwait.

然后他们被运往科威特。

And this right here is where our story really begins.

这就是我们的故事真正开始的地方。

In October of 2001, Pickle brought over a third group of Indian workers, 52 men.

2001 年 10 月，Pickle 引进了第三批印度工人，共 52 名男子。

And these men say Pickle did not hire them to go to Kuwait.

这些人说 Pickle 并没有雇用他们去科威特。

No, no, no. They say he was doing something a little more spectacular.

不，不，不。他们说他正在做一些更引人注目的事情。

He wasn't just going to run an overseas factory in Kuwait.

他不仅仅打算在科威特经营一家海外工厂。

They say he also wanted to run an overseas factory right here on US soil, inside his own Tulsa, Oklahoma plant.

他们说，他还想在美国本土经营一家海外工厂，位于他自己的俄克拉荷马州塔尔萨工厂内。

Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.

好吧，这是芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

You know that idea, "It's not personal, it's business," that what a company does is all about trying to make a sale, trying to stay afloat, trying to respond to market forces in the best way possible.

你知道这个想法，“这不是个人的，这是商业的”，公司所做的一切就是努力进行销售，努力维持生计，努力以尽可能最好的方式应对市场力量。

It is not about anybody's feelings.

这与任何人的感受无关。

Well, today we have two stories about the places that market competition leads two very different firms.

好吧，今天我们有两个关于市场竞争导致两家截然不同的公司走向何方的故事。

One of them, John Pickle's company, makes industrial equipment.

约翰·皮克尔的公司就是其中之一，生产工业设备。

The other, in Boise, Idaho, makes local TV newscasts.

另一个位于爱达荷州博伊西，制作当地电视新闻广播。

And in both of these stories you'll hear, things could not be more personal.

在这两个故事中，您将听到的事情都非常个人化。

There is nothing cut and dried and businesslike about any of this, for the people in the companies and for the people who surround the companies.

对于公司员工和公司周围的人来说，这一切都不是一成不变的、务实的。

Our show today in two acts.

我们今天的演出分两幕。

Act One, Cowboys and Indians.

第一幕，牛仔和印第安人。

Act Two, The Race to Number Two.

第二幕，争夺第二名。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

Act One.

第一幕。

Cowboys and Indians.

牛仔和印第安人。

Now, we know a lot about the person who's at the heart of this story, John Nash Pickle.

现在，我们对这个故事的核心人物约翰·纳什·皮克尔 (John Nash Pickle) 有了很多了解。

But you're not going to be hearing from him directly.

但你不会直接收到他的消息。

That's because this story involves a court case that he's been found on the wrong side of, and his attorneys have advised him not to talk to the press anymore about it.

这是因为这个故事涉及一个法庭案件，而他被认为站在了错误的一边，他的律师建议他不要再向媒体谈论此事。

Fortunately, before he got that advice, he'd already talked to a bunch of reporters, including John Bowe, who tells his story in his book, Nobodies, and who put us onto this story.

幸运的是，在他得到这个建议之前，他已经和一群记者交谈过，其中包括约翰·鲍（John Bowe），他在他的书《Nobodies》中讲述了他的故事，也是他让我们了解了这个故事。

Now, as John Bowe explains in his book, back in 2001, John Pickle had an Indian company recruit 52 men for him to bring over to the United States.

现在，正如 John Bowe 在他的书中解释的那样，早在 2001 年，John Pickle 就让一家印度公司招募了 52 名员工，让他带到美国。

And all of them swore in affidavits that they were promised that they were going to come to the US, they were going to be working for at least two years, they were going to be given medical insurance, driver's licenses.

他们所有人都在宣誓书中宣誓，他们被承诺将来到美国，他们将工作至少两年，他们将获得医疗保险、驾驶执照。

They would eventually be given the means to obtain a green card and get their families over there.

他们最终将获得获得绿卡并让家人前往那里的方法。

John Pickle himself says, you're going to hire for the John Pickle company in America.

约翰·皮克尔 (John Pickle) 本人表示，您将为美国的约翰·皮克尔 (John Pickle) 公司招聘员工。

He said that it's going to be in the United States.

他说它将在美国进行。

[UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] had a great job, what Indians call a permanent job.

[难以理解的短语]有一份很棒的工作，印度人称之为永久性工作。

It's like a tenured position, but in a factory.

这就像一个终身职位，但在工厂里。

He had over a decade's experience when he took a position with John Pickle.

当他在 John Pickle 任职时，他已经拥有十多年的经验。

He also had a new baby.

他还生了一个新生儿。

Pickle flew to India himself to interview the recruits, shake their hands, make small talk about their families.

皮克尔亲自飞往印度采访新兵，与他们握手，闲聊他们的家人。

He could be charming.

他可以很迷人。

And the Indians were impressed that the owner of the operation would go to the trouble to meet them.

印第安人对公司老板会不辞辛劳地会见他们印象深刻。

He mentioned about the good accommodation [?

他提到了良好的住宿条件[？

of the ?] facility.

？]设施的。

And you guys have internet facility and the phone facility.

你们有互联网设施和电话设施。

You guys have 24-hour-- all the channels you can watch.

你们可以24小时观看所有频道。

Especially he mentioned about the different channels, you know, bad channels and stuff.

特别是他提到了不同的渠道，你知道，糟糕的渠道之类的。

Bad channels?

渠道不好？

Man 1 Oh.

男人1哦。

He mentioned about porno movies.

他提到了色情电影。

And I didn't know, regularly, at that time, what was a porno.

当时我经常不知道什么是色情片。

So he said, it's bad channels.

所以他说，渠道不好。

And you can watch.

你可以观看。

But before their plane left the ground, a few things happened that made the men kind of nervous.

但在他们的飞机离开地面之前，发生了一些事情，让这些人有点紧张。

They noticed that the visas to go to America that Pickle had gotten them were only for six months.

他们注意到皮克尔给他们拿到的去美国的签证只有六个月。

And the visas classified them as trainees, not as real workers.

签证将他们归类为实习生，而不是真正的工人。

They were told this was just a formality.

他们被告知这只是一个形式。

It was just a month after September 11th, and this was the only way to get them visas.

9月11日才过去一个月，这是他们获得签证的唯一途径。

It would be fixed later, which seemed reasonable to them.

稍后会修复，这对他们来说似乎是合理的。

And a couple days later, they were in Oklahoma.

几天后，他们到达了俄克拉荷马州。

Again, John Bowe:

约翰·鲍再次说道：

And of course, they were surprised when they got to the factory in Tulsa and there is John Pickle's wife.

当然，当他们到达塔尔萨的工厂并看到约翰·皮克尔的妻子在那里时，他们感到很惊讶。

She collected their passports as they left the bus.

他们下车时，她领取了他们的护照。

And some of them had the temerity to ask, well, why are you taking our passport?

他们中的一些人还冒昧地问，你为什么要拿走我们的护照？

And again they were assured, this is just a formality.

他们再次得到保证，这只是一个形式。

Since September 11th, blah blah blah, we have to do this.

从9月11日开始，等等等等，我们必须这样做。

And then they're shown to makeshift barracks that have been built for them inside the factory.

然后他们被带到工厂内为他们建造的临时营房。

Dozens of bunk beds squeezed together, barely room between them to walk.

几十张双层床挤在一起，床之间几乎没有行走的空间。

The walls were flimsy partitions that didn't reach the ceiling.

墙壁是脆弱的隔板，没有到达天花板。

A bathroom on the other side.

另一边是一间浴室。

Again, [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE].

再次，[难以理解的短语]。

My bed was very close to where people were taking showers and they go to the restroom.

我的床离人们洗澡和上厕所的地方很近。

And I was sleeping in the nighttime, and the people would come through from the night shift.

晚上我正在睡觉，人们会从夜班过来。

And they'd come about 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock.

他们大约三点、四点钟来。

And they'd take a shower.

他们会洗澡。

All the water comes out from their wall and spraying on you and makes so much noise.

所有的水都从他们的墙上流出来，喷在你身上，发出很大的噪音。

And I told him, I cannot sleep here.

我告诉他，我不能睡在这里。

And they said, no, we don't have any more beds.

他们说，不，我们没有更多的床位了。

You have to sleep here.

你必须睡在这里。

They put the numbers on the beds.

他们把号码贴在床上。

So he said, this is your number.

所以他说，这是你的号码。

You've got to go there and sleep.

你必须去那里睡觉。

You don't like it?

你不喜欢它？

Go home.

回家吧。

We have tickets ready to pack you up.

我们已准备好门票供您打包。

[UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] had 18 years experience as a metal fabricator when he came to work for Pickle.

[难以理解的短语] 在为 Pickle 工作时，他已经有 18 年的金属制造经验。

He says that, although he was surprised at the living conditions of the factory, mostly he stayed pretty hopeful.

他说，虽然他对工厂的生活条件感到惊讶，但大多数时候他还是抱有希望的。

He was in America.

他在美国。

Soon enough he'd get to bring over his family.

很快他就能把他的家人带过来。

We just lived there, because we thought, in the beginning, that that was just a temporary arrangement, because Mr. Pickle must be working on that, to find a good apartment or something.

我们只是住在那里，因为一开始我们认为这只是一个临时安排，因为皮克尔先生一定正在努力寻找一个好的公寓或其他什么。

So I gave my benefit of doubt every time.

所以我每次都给出了我的怀疑。

I think good.

我觉得不错。

Because I am a good-hearted man, I always think positive.

因为我是一个心地善良的人，所以我总是往积极的方面想。

But it wasn't just that these men wanted it to turn out happily for them at John Pickle's plant, they needed it to.

但这些人不仅希望约翰·皮克尔的工厂能够获得幸福的结果，而且他们也需要它。

Most of them had taken a huge gamble, coming to America.

他们中的大多数人都下了一场豪赌，来到了美国。

Hoping to transform their family's lives and move here permanently someday, they gave up jobs back in India that would be hard to get back, and many of them had gone deep into debt to come here.

为了改变家人的生活并有一天永久搬到这里，他们放弃了在印度很难再回来的工作，而且他们中的许多人为了来到这里而负债累累。

The recruiting agency in India charged each of them a fee that amounted to a small fortune for them, $2,200 each.

印度的招聘机构向他们每人收取了一笔不小的费用，每人 2200 美元。

And they'd taken out high-interest loans, sold their houses, borrowed life savings from family members.

他们申请了高息贷款，卖掉了房子，向家人借了毕生积蓄。

If this didn't work out, if they got sent back early, they'd have a hard time paying that money back.

如果这不起作用，如果他们被提前遣返，他们将很难偿还这笔钱。

Again, [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

再次，[无法理解]。

Yeah, that's a lot of money for me at that time.

是的，这对当时的我来说是很多钱。

And if I lose that money, it would be a problem for me, because I borrowed that money from my mother-in-law.

如果我失去了那笔钱，那对我来说就是一个问题，因为那笔钱是我从婆婆那里借的。

How long would it take you to earn that in India?

在印度你需要多长时间才能赚到这笔钱？

Oh, there?

哦，在那里？

Maybe 10 years.

也许10年。

Ira Glass 10 years?

艾拉·格拉斯10年了？

Because how much did your job pay, say, in one year?

因为你的工作一年支付多少钱？

Maybe $200 per month.

也许每月 200 美元。

Ira Glass As the weeks passed, things worsened.

几周过去了，情况变得越来越糟。

There rarely seemed to be enough food, for one thing.

一方面，食物似乎很少充足。

And they were making just $2 to $3 an hour, less than they'd been promised back in India, and half the minimum wage.

他们每小时的工资只有 2 到 3 美元，比他们在印度时所承诺的要少，也是最低工资的一半。

And they were working side by side with men doing the same jobs for as much as $17 an hour.

她们与男性并肩工作，从事同样的工作，每小时工资高达 17 美元。

The company sacked its janitors, and managers tried to force the Indians to clean toilets.

该公司解雇了看门人，经理们试图强迫印度人打扫厕所。

As skilled workers with decades of experience, the Indians were indignant about this.

作为拥有数十年经验的技术工人，印度人对此感到愤慨。

Nearly all of them refused.

几乎所有人都拒绝了。

There was other menial work.

还有其他琐碎的工作。

Five of them moved a septic tank.

其中五个人搬了一个化粪池。

A few of them did yard work.

他们中的一些人在院子里干活。

And one of the most interesting things about this story is the possibility-- and this is a serious possibility-- that company officials and Pickle truly thought they were doing nothing wrong.

这个故事最有趣的事情之一是，公司官员和 Pickle 确实认为他们没有做错任何事，这是一种严重的可能性。

Again, reporter John Bowe.

记者约翰·鲍再次报道。

He really didn't think, I'm just a guy trying to save a buck.

他真的没有想到，我只是一个想省钱的人。

He thought, I'm a guy who likes to help Indians because they're starving.

他想，我是一个喜欢帮助饥饿的印第安人的人。

Now, never mind that he always refers to them as "the India boys" or "them Indian boys." He told me all these stories about how one of them started crying to him, saying, I never had anything to eat in my life but a handful of rice.

现在，别介意他总是称他们为“印度男孩”或“他们印度男孩”。他给我讲了所有这些故事，其中一个人开始向他哭泣，说，我这辈子除了一把米之外什么也没吃。

And he had been to Mumbai to see the conditions there.

他还去过孟买看看那里的情况。

And of course, it's true.

当然，这是真的。

There are millions of very, very poor people there.

那里有数百万非常非常贫穷的人。

So in his mind, though, he was doing a great thing.

但在他看来，他正在做一件伟大的事情。

He was really doing them a big favor.

他实在是帮了他们一个大忙。

And as he put it, why not treat them like the guests of America that they were?

正如他所说，为什么不像对待美国的客人一样对待他们呢？

Which explains why Pickle had the guys come to his house one weekend and showed them how to fish with a rod and reel, and why, at the holidays, he drove them around to see the Christmas lights of Tulsa, and why, once everything blew up and this hit the local news, there'd be moments like this one.

这就解释了为什么皮克尔在一个周末让这些人来到他家，向他们展示如何用鱼竿和卷线轮钓鱼，为什么在假期里他开车带他们去塔尔萨看圣诞彩灯，以及为什么一旦一切都爆炸并登上当地新闻，就会有这样的时刻。

Pickle says he's a hardworking businessman and has done nothing improper.

皮克尔说他是一个勤奋的商人，没有做过任何不当的事情。

I'm kind of a halfway [?

我有点半途而废[?

do-gooder, ?] I guess.

行善者，？]我猜。

I've had many people go in business.

我已经让很多人去做生意了。

I've had people get education.

我让人们接受教育。

I feel like I went over backwards to help these people, and I'm getting shot in the back.

我觉得我在帮助这些人的过程中倒退了，但我却被背后中枪了。

OK?

好的？

I think he really, really genuinely believed that.

我认为他真的真的相信这一点。

I mean, I really do think, in Pickle's mind, most of what he did was legal.

我的意思是，我确实认为，在 Pickle 看来，他所做的大部分事情都是合法的。

And as far as the things that might not be legal, well, he was still morally correct, because the shortcuts he was taking were just examples where the federal government was being too intrusive in our lives.

至于那些可能不合法的事情，嗯，他在道德上仍然是正确的，因为他所采取的捷径只是联邦政府过度侵入我们生活的例子。

For example, he said, sure, I could have paid them minimum wage and let them all find their own houses, but I thought it's probably better for them if I just house them inside my company barracks and don't make them do the work of finding their own apartments.

例如，他说，当然，我可以支付他们最低工资，让他们都找到自己的房子，但我认为，如果我只是把他们安置在我公司的营房里，而不是让他们自己寻找公寓，这对他们来说可能会更好。

And so, because I'm doing that, I don't really have to pay them minimum wage, because they're still going to be making out anyway.

所以，因为我这样做了，所以我实际上不必支付他们最低工资，因为无论如何他们仍然会亲热。

There was a meeting.

有一个会议。

They said this a paradise for you.

他们说这里是你的天堂。

[UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] says that company officials would even try to say this stuff to the Indians themselves.

[难以理解的短语]说公司官员甚至会尝试对印度人自己说这些话。

Yeah, that's what he said, that you are happy to get this food, because in India you are dying by hunger.

是的，他就是这么说的，你很高兴能得到这些食物，因为在印度你快要饿死了。

But that was not true, because we are skilled men, skilled full-fledged workers.

但事实并非如此，因为我们是熟练的人，熟练的成熟工人。

At this meeting, where the Indians were told that they were in paradise, one of the workers, [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE], argued with one of the managers.

在这次会议上，印度人被告知他们在天堂，其中一名工人[难以理解的短语]与一名经理争论。

"When I heard this, I became angry," he said in a deposition later.

“当我听到这个消息时，我很生气，”他在后来的证词中说道。

"We were not dying of hunger in our country.

“在我们的国家，我们并没有死于饥饿。

I asked them why they did not tell us in India that they would be unable to provide the right food and accommodations for us.

我问他们为什么不告诉我们在印度他们无法为我们提供合适的食物和住宿。

I told him that he misunderstood the life in India, if he thought that we should be happy with the insufficient food and accommodations being provided here.

我告诉他，如果他认为我们应该对这里提供的食物和住宿不足感到满意，那他就误解了印度的生活。

I told him that if he had told us the truth in India, we would not be in this situation, would not have come, and for this reason we would not now be complaining.

我告诉他，如果他在印度告诉我们真相，我们就不会处于这种境地，就不会来，因此我们现在也不会抱怨。

I told them that to tell us to be quiet now made no sense.

我告诉他们现在让我们保持安静是没有意义的。

He became very angry with me."

他对我非常生气。”

Within weeks, the company told [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] to pack his bags.

几周之内，该公司告诉[难以理解的短语]让他收拾行李。

He was a troublemaker.

他是个麻烦制造者。

They were taking him and another worker to the airport to be deported.

他们正把他和另一名工人带到机场准备驱逐出境。

Both of them ran away before the planes took off, and lived with Indian friends in America.

飞机起飞前，他们双双逃走，和美国的印度朋友住在一起。

Meanwhile, back at the plant, Pickle fired 30 of his American workers, keeping the Indians to handle the jobs at a fraction of the cost.

与此同时，回到工厂，Pickle 解雇了 30 名美国工人，让印第安人以极低的成本来处理这些工作。

When there was overtime work, managers were told to give it to the Indian workers, not the remaining Americans.

当有加班时，经理们被告知要把加班时间交给印度工人，而不是剩下的美国人。

And all this time, the Indians were in a strange country, whose rules most of them didn't know.

一直以来，印第安人都生活在一个陌生的国家，他们中的大多数人都不知道这个国家的规则。

When they asked to be driven to a store or to a movie, often they were just told no, and they were warned it was too dangerous for them to go out on their own.

当他们要求开车去商店或去看电影时，通常会被拒绝，并警告他们独自外出太危险了。

Again, reporter John Bowe.

记者约翰·鲍再次报道。

Theri bosses told them repeatedly, don't leave the factory premises.

老板们再三叮嘱他们，不要离开厂区。

Americans have a hard time understanding these cases, because you think, were they in handcuffs?

美国人很难理解这些案件，因为你想，他们是不是戴着手铐？

Were they tied to something?

他们与某些东西有联系吗？

Was their door locked?

他们的门锁了吗？

In fact, it's a whole bunch of layers of threats that add up to coercion.

事实上，这是一大堆层层威胁加起来的胁迫。

They used to say, you're are not going to go out.

他们常说，你不会出去。

If you are to go, you've got to get permission.

如果你要去的话，你必须得到许可。

There was a sign put on the wall that, if you leave this place without permission, you'll be terminated and deported back to India.

墙上贴着一个牌子，如果你未经许可离开这个地方，你将被解雇并驱逐回印度。

I mean, it was totally, completely, the situation-- you know, out of hand.

我的意思是，情况完全、完全、失控。

We were all scared.

我们都很害怕。

People were scared to even speak their problems.

人们甚至不敢说出他们的问题。

Things continued this way until help came from right across the road.

事情就这样继续下去，直到马路对面传来救援。

The John Pickle plant takes up almost a city block, so our church is on the back side of the factory and across the street.

约翰·皮克尔工厂几乎占据了一个街区，所以我们的教堂就在工厂的后面，街对面。

This is Mark Massey.

这是马克·梅西。

Up until now in our story, every single person is motivated by the goal of doing better in the global economy, making more money.

到目前为止，在我们的故事中，每个人都被在全球经济中做得更好、赚更多钱的目标所激励。

That's true for Pickle.

对于 Pickle 来说也是如此。

That's true for the workers.

对于工人来说也是如此。

That's not what motivated Massey the day he saw a couple of Indian workers show up for Pentecostal service.

当梅西看到几个印度工人参加五旬节服务时，这并不是他的动机。

It's a little country-type church.

这是一座乡村风格的小教堂。

And they came into the church Sunday morning.

周日早上他们来到了教堂。

And they came and it was kind of-- you could feel like they were uneasy and maybe they were, I guess because maybe they weren't supposed to be there.

他们来了，你可以感觉到他们感到不安，也许他们确实感到不安，我想是因为也许他们不应该在那里。

And what happened?

发生了什么？

You saw them just-- they came in, sat in the back.

你刚刚看到他们——他们进来了，坐在后面。

And did they participate in the service?

他们参加了这项服务吗？

They did.

他们做到了。

But the congregation usually will shake hands and try to befriend any visitor that would come in, and get to know them more than just the face or a handshake as they leave.

但会众通常会握手，并试图与任何进来的访客成为朋友，并在他们离开时了解他们，而不仅仅是面孔或握手。

So Mark Massey approaches the Indian men.

于是马克·梅西接近了印度人。

And he's a lay minister, did a lot of outreach with the homeless and teaching English in the Spanish community, so he is being very, very friendly.

他是一名外行牧师，为无家可归者做了很多外展工作，并在西班牙社区教授英语，所以他非常非常友好。

And one of the men who came to this church early on, a vessel fitter with 25 years' experience named [UNINTELLIGIBLE], says that this just made him suspicious.

其中一位早期来到这座教堂的男子是一位拥有 25 年经验的容器安装工，名叫[无法辨认]，他说这让他产生了怀疑。

I didn't even like that, because John Pickle did the same, like that, with the smiling face.

我什至不喜欢那样，因为约翰·皮克尔也做了同样的事，就像那样，脸上带着微笑。

And he did wrong things.

而他也做了错事。

Oh, I understand.

哦，我明白了。

You didn't trust it when the Americans smiled and shook your hand.

当美国人微笑着与你握手时，你并不相信它。

Yes, that is right.

是的，没错。

I am not ready to trust the people, because of all the experience through John Pickle.

由于约翰·皮克尔（John Pickle）的所有经验，我还没有准备好信任人们。

The men edge away from Mark, but he perseveres, invites them back to church, and back to church again, and to a church dinner where one of the guys starts to open up a little.

这些人逐渐远离马克，但他坚持不懈，邀请他们回到教堂，然后再次回到教堂，参加教堂晚宴，其中一个人开始敞开心扉。

He told me that he had a degree in electrical engineering, a college degree in engineering.

他告诉我，他拥有电气工程学位和工程学位。

I thought, oh, wow.

我想，哦，哇。

And so I said, wow, to bring you from India, you must be making some good money, I don't know.

所以我说，哇，把你从印度带来，你一定赚了很多钱，我不知道。

And he told me he was making $2 an hour.

他告诉我他每小时赚 2 美元。

And I didn't make much comment about it, but after they had left, I said I must have misunderstood him.

我并没有对此发表太多评论，但在他们离开后，我说我一定是误会了他。

He told me he was just making $2, and he's got a college degree.

他告诉我他只赚 2 美元，而且他有大学学位。

Part of the problem was the men's English was so bad.

部分问题是男人的英语太差了。

So eventually, Mark gets an Indian guy he knows in Tulsa, who happens to come from the same state as some of these workers, to come and translate.

因此，最终，马克找到了一位他在塔尔萨认识的印度人，他恰好与其中一些工人来自同一个州，来帮忙翻译。

And Massey finally gets the whole story: their working conditions, how they're not supposed to leave the plant, their fears.

梅西终于了解了整个故事：他们的工作条件，他们不应该离开工厂，他们的恐惧。

I told them, if the situation gets too bad and something happens, that I had a couple houses close to the factory.

我告诉他们，如果情况变得太糟糕并且发生了什么事，我在工厂附近有几栋房子。

So I actually left the key underneath the mat, is what I did.

所以我实际上把钥匙留在了垫子下面，这就是我所做的。

And I said, if anything happens, it's a vacant house.

我说，如果有什么事情发生，那就是一个空房子。

I just fixed it up to sell it.

我只是把它修好然后卖掉。

I'd bought it and reconditioned it, and was going to sell it.

我买了它并翻新了它，然后打算卖掉它。

This is actually Mark's business.

这实际上是马克的事。

He had bought a cheap house in this sketchy area near the plant and fixed it up with a partner.

他在工厂附近这个条件简陋的地区买了一套便宜的房子，并与一个合伙人一起修缮起来。

And it didn't take long for the Indian men to get in touch, to ask if they could move into the house.

没过多久，印度男子就联系上了，询问是否可以搬进房子。

They called me and they said that they had to leave.

他们打电话给我，说他们必须离开。

They were afraid the next day they were going to be deporting some people.

他们担心第二天就会驱逐一些人。

And they were very scared.

他们非常害怕。

So I drove up.

于是我就开车上去。

I had an eight-passenger van.

我有一辆八人座的面包车。

I drove up outside of the factory.

我把车开到工厂外面。

And it was kind of a scary feeling.

这是一种可怕的感觉。

It was moving a little quicker than I wanted it to.

它的移动速度比我想要的要快一点。

I didn't know just what I was getting into.

我不知道自己正在陷入什么境地。

I didn't know if I was doing things legal, illegal.

我不知道我做的事情合法还是非法。

You still had a nervousness about helping, not knowing if you were violating something.

你仍然对帮助他人感到紧张，不知道自己是否违反了某些规定。

So it was a scary feeling.

所以这是一种可怕的感觉。

It was in the evening, and as I drove up-- they told me to pull up on the outside.

那是在晚上，当我开车过去时——他们告诉我把车停在外面。

There was a little bitty hamburger stand that was shut down.

有一个小汉堡摊已经关门了。

It was closed during the time I pulled up there.

当我把车停在那里的时候，它已经关闭了。

There was a phone there you could park by.

那里有一部电话，你可以把车停在旁边。

And I parked by there, and as you watched these guys, they were sneaking some luggage out and bringing it by a train that was set in there.

我把车停在那里，当你看到这些人时，他们正偷偷地把一些行李拿出来，然后用停在那儿的火车运过来。

There's a big train track that runs through that area.

有一条大火车轨道穿过该地区。

And they were hiding all their luggage behind the train.

他们把所有行李都藏在火车后面。

And then they were crawling and sneaking and bringing all their luggage into my van.

然后他们爬行、偷偷摸摸地把所有行李搬进我的货车。

Crawling.

爬行。

He means crawling under the fence that protected the Pickle factory.

他的意思是爬到保护泡菜工厂的栅栏下面。

And there was a Hindu man.

还有一个印度教男子。

He was helping them.

他正在帮助他们。

His name was [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

他的名字是[无法辨认]。

He sat in my van, and he knew I was helping these Christian guys who came to my church.

他坐在我的货车里，他知道我正在帮助这些来到我教堂的基督徒。

So after he had loaded them up, he said, I'm Hindu.

所以当他把它们装完后，他说，我是印度教徒。

Will you help me?

你会帮我吗？

And I said, well, yeah.

我说，好吧，是的。

That's what it's all about, is helping each other.

这就是一切的意义所在，互相帮助。

So five of the guys are now out of the factory, never to return.

因此，其中五个人现在已离开工厂，再也不会回来。

The next morning, Mark went to get the men's passports back from Pickle.

第二天早上，马克去皮克尔那里取回这些人的护照。

And this is when the simmering problem in the plant breaks into full-out open conflict, because managers have got wind of what Massey was doing, and were putting their own plan into motion.

就在此时，工厂中酝酿已久的问题爆发为全面公开的冲突，因为经理们已经得知梅西正在做的事情，并正在实施自己的计划。

Mark Massey shows up at the John Pickle Company and sits down with the vice president, Joe Reeble, to beg him for the men's passports.

马克·马西 (Mark Massey) 出现在约翰·皮克公司 (John Pickle Company)，并与副总裁乔·里布尔 (Joe Reeble) 坐下来，向他乞求这些人的护照。

And he sits in his office chair, kind of rocking back and forth, and he begins to tell me that we're living in a different time, in a different era, that if companies are going to compete, they're going to have to-- this is how things are going to have to be.

他坐在办公椅上，前后摇晃着，他开始告诉我，我们生活在一个不同的时代，一个不同的时代，如果公司要竞争，他们就必须——事情就必须这样。

Wait, this is how things are going to have to be, meaning we have to steal their passports?

等等，事情就是这样，这意味着我们必须偷他们的护照？

It's a competitive field out there, and if they're going to work in a world market, that they're going to have to-- this is how they're going to have to do it.

这是一个竞争激烈的领域，如果他们要在世界市场上工作，他们就必须这样做——这就是他们必须这样做的方式。

And so, while Massey is talking to Reeble, John Pickle is sort of storming in and out of the office, looking really furious.

因此，当梅西与里布尔交谈时，约翰·皮克尔在办公室里冲进冲出，看上去非常愤怒。

And he is totally out of breath.

他已经完全喘不过气来了。

And he was very furious.

他非常愤怒。

He was very hot.

他很热。

And just seeing him, you would think-- in my mind, I thought, man, this guy is fixing to stroke out or something.

只要看到他，你就会想——在我看来，我想，伙计，这家伙正准备中风什么的。

He is just boiling, furious.

他简直沸腾了，愤怒了。

And what Massey didn't know was that Pickle was actually deporting seven of the men, of the Indians that he had deemed troublemakers, at that very moment.

梅西不知道的是，就在那一刻，皮克尔实际上正在驱逐七名他认为是麻烦制造者的印第安人。

By complete coincidence, Massey had shown up at the factory on the same day the sheriff was arriving to escort these seven men to Tulsa International.

完全巧合的是，梅西出现在工厂的同一天，治安官护送这七名男子前往塔尔萨国际机场。

When Massey comes to understand what's happening, he's able to get immigration officials to pull the men from their plane on a stopover in Atlanta.

当梅西了解发生了什么事后，他能够让移民官员将这些人从他们在亚特兰大中途停留的飞机上拉下来。

They're allowed to stay in America.

他们被允许留在美国。

Most of them return to Tulsa, where Mark finds them a place to live.

他们中的大多数人返回塔尔萨，马克在那里为他们找到了住处。

Meanwhile, back in the Pickle factory, security tightens.

与此同时，回到 Pickle 工厂，安全措施也加强了。

The men are all warned that anybody who escapes, or tries to leave without authorization, will go to jail.

这些人都被警告说，任何逃跑或未经授权试图离开的人都将被送进监狱。

One of the guards starts carrying a gun.

一名警卫开始拿着枪。

To deal with everything that was happening, Mark tried to hire this lawyer named Kent Felty.

为了处理所发生的一切，马克试图聘请一位名叫肯特·费尔蒂的律师。

Here's Mark.

这是马克。

I couldn't think of no one else to go to.

我想不出还有谁可以去。

My brother had divorced several years before, and this was the lawyer he used in his divorce case.

我哥哥几年前离婚了，这就是他在离婚案中使用的律师。

It was really strange.

真的很奇怪。

I think I might have been the only lawyer they knew.

我想我可能是他们认识的唯一律师。

And at that time, I don't know if I could have spelled immigration.

那时，我不知道我是否可以拼写“移民”。

This is Kent Felty, and when he looked at this case at the beginning, he didn't bother with the big questions that it raised, like can you open a low-wage factory with foreign workers on US soil?

这是肯特·费尔蒂（Kent Felty），当他一开始看这个案例时，他并没有理会它提出的重大问题，比如你可以在美国土地上开设一家雇用外国工人的低工资工厂吗？

Or was this human trafficking?

或者这是人口贩卖？

No, instead of dealing with that, he looked at what seemed like clear-cut, provable violations of normal laws that most of us have actually heard of.

不，他没有解决这个问题，而是着眼于我们大多数人实际上都听说过的看似明确、可证明的违反正常法律的行为。

The men weren't being paid minimum wage, for instance.

例如，这些人没有得到最低工资。

That's illegal.

这是非法的。

They received radically different salaries and treatment than the American workers got, so he might be able to argue discrimination under civil rights laws.

他们获得的工资和待遇与美国工人截然不同，因此他也许可以根据民权法提出歧视问题。

And when the men interviewed for these jobs back in India, they'd been promised certain pay and working conditions that hadn't been delivered, so there might be fraud.

当这些人回到印度面试这些工作时，他们曾被承诺一定的薪酬和工作条件，但尚未兑现，因此可能存在欺诈行为。

Well, the first thing that hit me was-- I remember going up to the lawyer for John Pickle and knowing that I have strong facts.

嗯，让我震惊的第一件事是——我记得去见约翰·皮克尔的律师，知道我有确凿的事实。

And if I were in his shoes, I would settle this case immediately.

如果我是他，我会立即解决这个案子。

And I told him.

我告诉他。

I said, look, basically, I've got you.

我说，看，基本上，我已经找到你了。

And of course, the lawyer for John Pickle laughed and basically said, no, we're going to club you like a baby seal.

当然，约翰·皮克尔的律师笑了，基本上说，不，我们会像海豹宝宝一样用棍棒打你。

Wait, were those his words?

等等，这是他的话吗？

Kent Felty Those weren't his words.

肯特·费尔蒂：这不是他的话。

That was their mode the whole time.

这就是他们一直以来的模式。

They knew that they had the resources and expertise to beat us up.

他们知道他们拥有击败我们的资源和专业知识。

And they did for a long time.

他们这样做了很长时间。

Well, and in fact, it's a sensible calculation on their part, right?

嗯，事实上，这对他们来说是一个明智的计算，对吧？

Yeah.

是的。

We had great facts and that's all we had.

我们拥有重要的事实，这就是我们所拥有的一切。

We didn't have any money.

我们没有钱。

At one point, we couldn't get-- Kinko's was calling us and saying, you have a $500 order of copies.

有一次，我们无法联系到——Kinko's 打电话给我们说，你们有一份价值 500 美元的副本订单。

Can you please come pick them up?

你能过来接他们吗？

And we could not pick them up.

我们无法接他们。

We couldn't get copies out.

我们无法取出副本。

We barely had our filing fee.

我们几乎没有申请费。

Filing fee is just the fee that you give the clerk to submit papers?

申请费只是你给书记员提交论文的费用吗？

Yeah.

是的。

That's $200.

那是 200 美元。

And that's embarrassing to say, and I'm sure my wife will be upset that I'm being so candid about our finances, but it was a major hardship.

说起来很尴尬，我确信我的妻子会因为我对我们的财务状况如此坦诚而感到不安，但这是一个重大困难。

But the more Kent Felty learned about the case, the more amazed he was at how easily John Pickle might have smoothed things out with these workers.

但肯特·费尔蒂对这个案子了解得越多，他就越惊讶于约翰·皮克尔竟然能轻易地与这些工人搞好关系。

Truly, one of the most remarkable things about the case is how clumsily Pickle ran this illegal enterprise.

确实，此案最引人注目的事情之一是皮克尔如何笨拙地经营这家非法企业。

If he had just given the men regular raises, been more responsive to their complaints, he might have kept them going for a long time.

如果他定期给这些员工加薪，对他们的抱怨更加积极地回应，他可能会让他们继续工作很长一段时间。

But instead, the Indians testified in court to all kinds of humiliations.

但相反，印第安人却在法庭上作证，见证了各种羞辱。

One experienced welder named [UNINTELLIGIBLE], who'd worked in Saudi Arabia before coming to the US, who'd run a business of his own, described being ordered to clean toilets, which he refused to do.

一位名叫[无法理解]的经验丰富的焊工来美国之前曾在沙特阿拉伯工作过，他自己经营过一家企业，他描述了自己被命令清洁厕所的情况，但他拒绝这样做。

And he then was suspended for three days.

然后他被停职三天。

He finally agreed to sweep the shop floor, so he'd be allowed to come back to work.

他最终同意打扫车间，这样他就可以回去工作了。

After half an hour of this, one of the bosses told him, this is not fast enough.

半个小时后，一位老板告诉他，这还不够快。

You have to do it faster.

你必须做得更快。

They went back and forth about this, and, finally, the boss said, this is why Americans say that Indians are a lazy people.

他们为此反复争论，最后，老板说，这就是为什么美国人说印度人是懒惰的民族。

He repeats this three times, according to the testimony, and then tells [UNINTELLIGIBLE] that he doesn't like him, and that he's going to punish him.

根据证词，他重复了三遍，然后告诉[无法理解]他不喜欢他，并且他要惩罚他。

[UNINTELLIGIBLE] told the court how afraid he was.

[无法辨认]告诉法庭他有多么害怕。

He thought of killing himself.

他想到了自杀。

He'd lost all control of his own life.

他已经完全失去了对自己生活的控制。

Many men gave examples like this, of what seems like gratuitously harsh treatment.

许多男人都举了这样的例子，说明他们受到了无端的严厉对待。

And one of the biggest examples, Kent Felty says, is something the men faced every single day: the food.

肯特·费尔蒂说，最大的例子之一就是男人每天都要面对的事情：食物。

Back when John Pickle met the workers in India, he made a point of promising good food.

当约翰·皮克尔 (John Pickle) 在印度见到工人们时，他特意承诺提供美味的食物。

And he brought two Indian cooks with him to Tulsa from Mumbai.

他还带着两名印度厨师从孟买来到塔尔萨。

You know, the part of this I don't understand is, why didn't he feed them better?

你知道，我不明白的是，他为什么不给他们喂更好的食物？

You know, that is the craziest thing, because this case probably would not have come to me on national origin discrimination or any civil rights claims or false imprisonment or fraud.

你知道，这是最疯狂的事情，因为这个案件可能不会因为国籍歧视或任何公民权利主张或非法监禁或欺诈而来到我这里。

The men, their primary complaint was that the food was substandard.

男人们的主要抱怨是食物不合格。

In the first beginning, he bought some food, Indian food.

一开始，他买了一些食物，印度菜。

And then after, he decided he's not going to buy any more Indian food.

之后，他决定不再购买印度食品。

And he said, I cannot buy your goddamn Indian groceries, because it's so expensive.

他说，我不能买你们那该死的印度杂货，因为它太贵了。

Again, Mark Massey.

又是马克·梅西。

Mark Massey It was a crazy thing to me.

马克·梅西 这对我来说是一件疯狂的事情。

I mean, had the men had adequate food, they wouldn't have become as discontent, because the food situation-- they worked hard all day long, and in the morning, when they cooked a little omelette with one egg, he would come through and cut it in half.

我的意思是，如果这些人有足够的食物，他们就不会变得那么不满，因为食物的情况——他们整天辛苦工作，早上，当他们用一个鸡蛋煮一点煎蛋卷时，他会过来把它切成两半。

So each man had to half of a one-egg omelette.

所以每个人只能吃半个单鸡蛋煎蛋卷。

Half of a one-egg omelette.

半个单蛋煎蛋卷。

And then there were items that Mr. Pickle bought that he got special prices on, like old bread, old fruit.

还有泡菜先生买的特价商品，比如旧面包、旧水果。

That He was actually rationing apples.

他实际上是在配给苹果。

He'd cut an apple into four pieces, and a quarter apiece.

他把一个苹果切成四块，每块四分之一。

After the meal, for dessert, they were given a quarter of an apple.

饭后，他们得到了四分之一个苹果作为甜点。

He would ration milk.

他会配给牛奶。

For the Hindu guys, that's a really important source of protein.

对于印度教徒来说，这是非常重要的蛋白质来源。

I mean, I was strictly vegetarian.

我的意思是，我是严格的素食主义者。

I had to start eating meat because it was not enough food.

我不得不开始吃肉，因为食物不够。

There were some of my other friends who were also vegetarian.

我的其他一些朋友也是素食主义者。

They wouldn't even eat the-- I mean, hardly enough food.

他们甚至不吃——我的意思是，几乎没有足够的食物。

And Pickle would mock them and mock them, and say, well, I don't know any grown man that drinks milk.

皮克尔会嘲笑他们，嘲笑他们，然后说，好吧，我不知道有哪个成年男人喝牛奶。

The food provider that came to court to testify, they asked him, the food he delivered, how many men it would feed.

到法庭作证的食品提供者，他们问他，他提供的食物，可以喂多少人。

The guy testified that, for the 54 Indian men Pickle had brought over, he was supposed to deliver food for 27 men.

该男子作证说，Pickle 带来了 54 名印度男子，他应该为 27 名男子送食物。

So it sounds trivial, but all those things added up to, really, disrespect, I think.

所以这听起来微不足道，但我认为所有这些事情加起来确实是不尊​​重。

Just moments ago, Indian nationals working at the John Pickle Company walked out.

就在不久前，在约翰·皮克尔公司工作的印度人罢工了。

Channel 2's Rebecca Seebirt is following that story for us, and she joins us with the latest.

Channel 2 的 Rebecca Seebirt 正在为我们追踪这个故事，她也为我们带来了最新消息。

Just more than an hour ago, more than 30 of the men marched off the John Pickle Company premises and went to a nearby house to celebrate their walkout.

就在一个多小时前，30 多名男子从约翰·皮克公司 (John Pickle Company) 工厂游行出来，前往附近的一所房子庆祝他们的罢工。

The disrespect had consequences.

这种不尊重造成了后果。

Four months after they arrived in the United States, all the Indians who were still living in Pickle's factory finally left.

到达美国四个月后，那些还住在Pickle工厂的印第安人终于全部离开了。

Mark, who is not a rich man by any means, took it on himself to give all these men a place to live, and he organized churches and local Indian businesses to provide their meals.

马克无论如何都不是一个富人，他亲自为这些人提供了居住的地方，并组织了教堂和当地的印第安企业为他们提供膳食。

It took over all his time.

它占据了他所有的时间。

And how did your family feel about it?

你的家人对此有何感想？

How did your wife feel about all this?

你的妻子对这一切有何感想？

It was difficult for her.

这对她来说很困难。

I had to pick her up and move her into one of the rent houses.

我不得不去接她并把她搬进一间出租屋。

And I moved 52 men into this big old house out in the country.

我把 52 个人搬进了乡下的这座大老房子里。

So there was a lot of difficulties for her.

所以，她遇到了很多困难。

And it was hard.

这很难。

It was a lot of stressful situation.

这是一个压力很大的情况。

But did I just understand right?

但我刚才理解对了吗？

You moved your wife into a different house so the men could have the house that you and she were living in?

你把你妻子搬到另一所房子里，这样男人们就可以拥有你和她住的房子了？

Right.

正确的。

Right.

正确的。

Ira Glass Did you know people who just thought, wow, this is nuts what you're doing?

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：您是否认识一些人，他们只是想，哇，您所做的事情太疯狂了？

Maybe even people in your own church?

也许甚至是你自己教会里的人？

Oh, sure.

哦，当然。

Sure.

当然。

Sure.

当然。

We didn't become popular for doing this, or even praised, really.

事实上，我们并没有因为这样做而受到欢迎，甚至没有受到赞扬。

There's been a lot of hurt and distance, people that we felt like-- and they were our friends.

我们经历了很多伤害和距离，我们喜欢的人——他们是我们的朋友。

But I think sometimes there's still more prejudice in us than we really realize.

但我认为有时我们内心的偏见比我们真正意识到的还要多。

Our churches have been good to help foreign missions, but when the foreign comes into our own district, our own comfort area, we're not always ready to accept.

我们的教会一直很好地帮助外国宣教，但是当外国人进入我们自己的地区、我们自己的舒适区时，我们并不总是准备好接受。

Well, there were ministers, because we weren't successful real quick in getting help and visas, and they just felt like it wasn't God's will that I did what I did.

嗯，有部长们，因为我们并没有很快成功地获得帮助和签证，他们只是觉得我所做的事情不是上帝的旨意。

Because we weren't real successful in the first part of our efforts to help these guys.

因为我们在帮助这些人的第一阶段并没有真正成功。

It took a while.

花了一段时间。

They're saying that, because it was really hard, that meant that God didn't want this to happen?

他们说，因为这真的很难，那就意味着上帝不希望这种事发生？

Right.

正确的。

And my theory, my biblical feelings are different than probably most people.

我的理论、我的圣经感受可能与大多数人不同。

To me, the gospel and ministering and our faith should be very incorporated.

对我来说，福音、事奉和我们的信仰应该紧密结合在一起。

And I know we can't help everybody, but I think everybody is given a little portion that they can do.

我知道我们无法帮助所有人，但我认为每个人都得到了他们可以做的一小部分。

And I know we can't turn around and change the world tomorrow, but just what's put in our little field here, our little corner, I feel like we're responsible for.

我知道我们明天无法转身改变世界，但我觉得我们有责任对我们这里的小领域、我们的小角落里的东西负责。

So I felt like that was put in my corner.

所以我觉得它被放在了我的角落里。

Mark did end up getting a lot of help, including legal help from Catholic charities.

马克最终确实得到了很多帮助，包括天主教慈善机构的法律帮助。

And there were private donors in some churches.

一些教堂也有私人捐助者。

And at some point, the federal government stepped in.

在某个时候，联邦政府介入了。

A lawyer from the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission joined the case, and ended up running a lot of it.

平等机会就业委员会的一名律师加入了此案，并最终处理了很多案件。

At last, Kent could get his photocopies out of Kinko's, and pay for somebody to take depositions.

最后，肯特可以从 Kinko's 拿到他的复印件，并花钱请人做证词。

It takes a year before all of this came to trial, and for that year, the men lived together in this house that Mark lent them, not working, not sure what was going to happen to them, and incredibly, most of them not telling their families anything, not even that they were out of a job.

所有这一切都花了一年的时间才受到审判，那一年，这些人一起住在马克借给他们的房子里，没有工作，不确定他们会发生什么，令人难以置信的是，他们中的大多数人没有告诉家人任何事情，甚至没有告诉家人他们失业了。

Yeah, they don't know about that.

是的，他们不知道这一点。

Because our aim is to make our family happy.

因为我们的目标是让我们的家庭幸福。

I told my wife in secret.

我偷偷地告诉了我的妻子。

I didn't talk to my parents.

我没有和我的父母说话。

My father, he has heart troubles.

我的父亲，他有心脏病。

And I said, don't tell him, because he's going to upset.

我说，别告诉他，因为他会不高兴。

Now, John Pickle and the people who ran his company have their own version of this whole story.

现在，约翰·皮克尔和他公司的经营者对整个故事有了自己的版本。

And we contacted Pickle, Pickle's lawyers, and three other company officials, and none of them wanted to come on the air to talk about any of this.

我们联系了 Pickle、Pickle 的律师和其他三名公司官员，他们都不想在节目中谈论此事。

I spoke with Pickle and one of his managers at length on the phone.

我通过电话与 Pickle 和他的一位经理进行了详细交谈。

They mostly repeated things that they'd already said in court, but declined to say the same things on the radio.

他们大多重复了在法庭上说过的话，但拒绝在广播中说同样的话。

Their version of the story is that the Indians, all 52 of them, are lying.

他们的说法是，52 名印第安人都在撒谎。

Here's reporter John Bowe.

请听记者约翰·鲍的报道。

All of the top brass at the Pickle Company supported the boss.

泡菜公司的所有高层都支持老板。

And they said that the Indian workers had turned on them, and they were lying in a scheme to get visas and green cards to stay in the US.

他们说，印度工人背叛了他们，他们在计划中撒谎，以获得留在美国的签证和绿卡。

What they kept saying, over and over again, was these guys read about slavery, and they read about trafficking cases on the internet.

他们一遍又一遍地说，这些人读到了有关奴隶制的内容，他们在互联网上读到了有关人口贩卖的案件。

And that's how they found out how to do this scam, that they would cry "slavery, slavery," and then all these do-gooders would rush in, including the federal government, and give them green cards.

这就是他们如何发现如何进行这个骗局的原因，他们会大喊“奴隶制，奴隶制”，然后所有这些行善者都会冲进来，包括联邦政府，并给他们绿卡。

And they could stay in the US forever.

他们可以永远留在美国。

That's because of a 2000 law called the Trafficking Victims Protection Act.

这是因为 2000 年颁布的一项名为《贩运受害者保护法》的法律。

If you're a foreign worker in a human trafficking case, it says, you get a special visa, called a T-visa, that lets you stay in the country while the case works its way through the courts, which means years.

报告称，如果你是人口贩运案件中的外国工人，你会获得一种特殊签证，称为 T 签证，可以让你在案件通过法院审理期间留在该国，这意味着数年时间。

So with that in mind, John Pickle says that everything the men allege is a lie, as part of this scam to stay in the United States.

因此，考虑到这一点，约翰·皮克尔表示，这些人所说的一切都是谎言，是留在美国的骗局的一部分。

He says that the food in the plant was good, that the men were free to come and go, and that the deal that the Indians signed up for was not, as all 52 Indians claim, to come and work long-term in the US, but to get six months training in Tulsa before being shipped to Kuwait.

他说，工厂里的食物很好，工人可以自由出入，印度人签署的协议并不是像所有 52 名印度人声称的那样，来美国长期工作，而是在被运往科威特之前在塔尔萨接受六个月的培训。

His argument did not carry the day in court.

他的论点在法庭上没有获得支持。

In a 100-page opinion, the judge found Pickle guilty of a laundry list of violations.

在一份长达 100 页的意见中，法官判定 Pickle 犯有一系列违法行为。

There's fraud and false imprisonment, employment and labor law violations having to do with harsh working conditions and living conditions and the minimum wage.

欺诈和非法监禁、违反就业和劳动法的行为都与恶劣的工作条件和生活条件以及最低工资有关。

And the Indian workers won their discrimination case for being treated so differently than the American workers.

印度工人因受到与美国工人如此不同的待遇而赢得了歧视诉讼。

In fact, the Pickle case has become a precedent, a way to go after human trafficking and forced labor in court without actually bringing human trafficking charges, which are criminal charges and harder to prove.

事实上，Pickle 案已成为一个先例，一种在法庭上追查人口贩运和强迫劳动的方式，而无需实际提出人口贩运指控，这些指控属于刑事指控，更难以证明。

Again, reporter John Bowe.

记者约翰·鲍再次报道。

Pickle is assessed a fine of over $1 million.

Pickle 被处以超过 100 万美元的罚款。

And I called him up a while after that, and asked him how he felt about all that.

过了一会儿我给他打电话，问他对这一切有何感想。

And he kind of chuckled into the phone.

他对着电话轻笑了一声。

He said, well, let's just say that I'm a guy who lives with his wife in a nice house.

他说，好吧，就说我是一个和他妻子住在漂亮房子里的人。

And the house is in her name.

而且房子是她名下的。

And basically he said, if they want to come after me for that money, they can, but good luck.

基本上他说，如果他们想为了那笔钱来找我，他们可以，但祝你好运。

Recently, Kent Felty has started the process of going after that money.

最近，肯特·费尔蒂（Kent Felty）开始追寻这笔钱。

The $1.3 million that Pickle owes the Indians isn't really much cash.

Pickle 欠印第安人队的 130 万美元实际上并不算多。

It comes out to less than $25,000 for each of the 52 workers.

52 名工人每人的收入不到 25,000 美元。

But even if they don't get Pickle's money, the workers got what they wanted in the first place, thanks to John Pickle.

但即使他们没有得到 Pickle 的钱，工人们首先得到了他们想要的东西，这要感谢 John Pickle。

It's only because Pickle tried to exploit them that they ended up in court, and now have visas that let them work and live legally in the United States.

只是因为 Pickle 试图剥削他们，他们才最终上了法庭，现在他们有了签证，可以在美国合法工作和生活。

[?

[？

Joseph ?] now pulls in $28 an hour, which seems typical for these guys.

约瑟夫？] 现在每小时收入 28 美元，这对这些人来说似乎很典型。

He's brought over his wife and his son, just like he'd hoped for.

正如他所希望的那样，他带来了他的妻子和儿子。

He thanks Mark Massey.

他感谢马克·梅西。

In the Bible study, there is a good Samaritan.

在圣经学习中，有一个好撒玛利亚人。

He is the one.

他就是那个。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

Yeah.

是的。

Man 3 That is a good Samaritan.

男人 3 这是一个好撒玛利亚人。

One man, laying down in the street.

一名男子躺在街上。

Nobody will help.

没有人会帮忙。

The Bible says a good Samaritan comes over there and takes him.

圣经说，有一个好心的撒玛利亚人过来接待了他。

And that's what Mark was.

马克就是这样的人。

Man 3 Yes, that's what Mark was.

男人 3 是的，马克就是这样的人。

It's interesting that, when you met Mark at first, you didn't trust him.

有趣的是，当你第一次见到马克时，你并不信任他。

Yeah.

是的。

I had doubts.

我有疑问。

I had doubts, that's all.

我有疑问，仅此而已。

None of us have gotten a dollar, but I think every single person would do it again.

我们没有人得到一美元，但我认为每个人都会再做一次。

Kent Felty says that his life's been transformed by the experience.

肯特·费尔蒂说，这次经历改变了他的生活。

His law practice is about immigrants and people who hire them.

他的法律业务涉及移民和雇佣移民的人。

Mark Massey has also made cases like these Indians into his full-time job.

马克·马西 (Mark Massey) 也将这些印第安人的案件纳入了他的全职工作。

Everybody came out better, except Pickle, who lost his business because of the case.

每个人都得到了更好的结果，除了皮克，他因为这个案子失去了生意。

Back in the beginning of all this, Pickle and the Indians found each other because each of them had a certain stereotyped idea about the other's country.

回到这一切的开始，皮克尔和印第安人找到了彼此，因为他们每个人都对对方的国家有一定的刻板印象。

Pickle saw India as filled with impoverished people living on a handful of rice a day.

在皮克尔看来，印度充斥着每天靠一把大米过活的贫困人口。

They saw America as prosperous and full of opportunity and fair.

他们认为美国繁荣、充满机会且公平。

In the end, not only was Pickle wrong about them and their country, he was wrong about his own country, too, and what he could get away with here.

最后，皮克尔不仅对他们和他们的国家的看法是错误的，他对自己的国家以及他在这里可以逃脱惩罚的看法也是错误的。

And the Indians, maybe because they were lucky and found all the people who helped them, it turns out the Indians were right about America.

而印第安人，也许是因为他们很幸运，找到了所有帮助他们的人，事实证明印第安人对美国的看法是正确的。

John Bowe's book, which tells this whole story, is called Nobodies: Modern American Slave Labor and the Dark Side of the New Global Economy.

约翰·鲍的书讲述了整个故事，书名叫《无名小卒：现代美国奴隶劳工和新全球经济的黑暗面》。

Coming up, what do you do when your gut says no, but your boss at the local TV station says yes, yes, yes?

接下来，当你的直觉告诉你不，但你当地电视台的老板说是，是，是时，你会怎么做？

That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.

一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.

当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。

Today's show, Competition.

今天的节目，竞赛。

We have stories today about market forces and the things that they lead people to do.

今天我们有关于市场力量以及它们引导人们做的事情的故事。

We've arrived at Act Two of our show.

我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。

Act Two, The Race for Second Place.

第二幕，第二名的争夺。

When TV stations go after each other-- like when any kind of companies go after each other-- there's fallout in random people's lives.

当电视台互相攻击时——就像任何类型的公司互相攻击一样——随机的人的生活就会受到影响。

Boise, Idaho had four TV stations doing local news.

爱达荷州博伊西有四家电视台播放当地新闻。

One station dominated the ratings, a local NBC affiliate, so everybody else was fighting to be number two.

全国广播公司 (NBC) 的一家附属电视台在收视率上占据主导地位，因此其他电视台都在争夺第二名。

Thanh Tan was a reporter at the CBS affiliate, Channel 2, and she tells what happened.

Thanh Tan 是哥伦比亚广播公司附属频道第二频道的记者，她讲述了发生的事情。

A warning to listeners that this story mentions, in a very non-graphic way, the existence of sex.

警告听众，这个故事以一种非常非图形的方式提到了性的存在。

Back in October 2005, I was working as a TV news reporter in Boise, Idaho.

早在 2005 年 10 月，我在爱达荷州博伊西担任电视新闻记者。

My station's closest competitor for the number-two rating spot was the ABC affiliate, Channel 6.

我的电台在收视率排名第二的位置上最接近的竞争对手是美国广播公司 (ABC) 的附属机构第六频道 (Channel 6)。

We couldn't afford to get beaten on anything.

我们不能在任何事情上被打败。

On this one day in October, we got wind of what sounded like a really solid story.

十月的这一天，我们听到了一个听起来非常真实的故事。

It had a clear, concise conflict, exactly what we like to cover.

它有一个清晰、简洁的冲突，这正是我们想要涵盖的内容。

Our competitors got wind of it, too.

我们的竞争对手也听到了风声。

We were two stations with the same exact information, same name, same guy, same everything.

我们是两个电台，拥有相同的确切信息、相同的名字、相同的人、相同的一切。

But we came to completely different conclusions about what to do with the information.

但对于如何处理这些信息，我们得出了完全不同的结论。

My name is Scott Picken, P-I-C-K-E-N.

我叫斯科特·皮肯 (Scott Picken)，P-I-C-K-E-N。

I am the news director for KIVI, Channel 6 news.

我是第六频道 KIVI 新闻总监。

6 On Your Side has learned tonight, a registered sex offender works with children at Idaho Ice World as a referee.

6 On Your Side 今晚获悉，一名登记在案的性犯罪者在爱达荷州冰雪世界担任裁判，与儿童一起工作。

It actually started out, believe it or not, as a viewer tip.

不管你信不信，它实际上是作为观众提示开始的。

Somebody had, I believe, emailed me and said that they had become aware that Mr. Kimball, who was a registered sex offender in the state of Idaho, was I believe coaching youth hockey at Idaho Ice World.

我相信有人给我发了电子邮件，说他们已经意识到金博尔先生是爱达荷州登记的性犯罪者，我相信他是爱达荷冰世界的青少年曲棍球教练。

He was a referee, actually.

事实上，他是一名裁判。

Scott Picken And so I thought that was kind of weird.

Scott Picken 所以我觉得这有点奇怪。

So we checked it out and found out it was true.

于是我们查了一下，发现这是真的。

--a concerned viewer, and tonight we've confirmed it's true.

——一位关心的观众，今晚我们已经证实这是真的。

Brandi Smith joins us live with a story you'll see only on 6.

布兰迪·史密斯 (Brandi Smith) 加入我们的现场直播，讲述了一个只有在 6 号节目中才能看到的故事。

Brandi?

布兰迪？

Michelle, yes, James Kimball does work here as a referee at Idaho Ice World.

米歇尔，是的，詹姆斯·金博尔确实在爱达荷州冰雪世界担任裁判。

He's a convicted sex offender.

他是一名被定罪的性犯罪者。

He was convicted--

他被定罪——

I remember the email.

我记得那封电子邮件。

I remember going out on the story, going to Ice World.

我记得出去讲故事，去了冰世界。

Here's the Channel 6 reporter, Brandi Smith.

请听第六频道记者布兰迪·史密斯的报道。

She doesn't work at the station anymore.

她不再在车站工作了。

And back at the newsroom, they were researching more about the documents about the charges, if I remember right.

回到新闻编辑室，如果我没记错的话，他们正在研究有关指控的更多文件。

And I remember having to go through Ice World and ask people what their response was.

我记得我必须穿过冰世界并询问人们的反应是什么。

And I could only get one woman to comment.

我只能让一位女士发表评论。

And she was pretty outraged, as any parent would be if you heard that a sex offender was working with your kids.

她非常愤怒，就像任何父母如果听说性犯罪者与你的孩子一起工作时都会感到愤怒一样。

Fire him.

解雇他。

Get rid of him.

摆脱他吧。

Get him away from children.

让他远离孩子。

At Idaho Ice World, many parents had this same reaction when we told them one of the referees here has a rap sheet that includes--

在爱达荷州冰雪世界，当我们告诉他们这里的一位裁判有一份犯罪记录表，其中包括——时，许多家长都有同样的反应——

I was the Brandi at Channel 6's competitor, Channel 2.

我是第六频道竞争对手第二频道的布兰迪。

But I didn't do the story.

但这个故事不是我编的。

The tip had come late in the day, and what I'd been able to find out was that Jim Kimball was a registered sex offender.

消息是在当天晚些时候才收到的，我发现吉姆·金博尔是一名登记在案的性犯罪者。

The charge was statutory rape, but the case was from 1992, 13 years earlier.

指控是法定强奸罪，但案件发生在 1992 年，也就是 13 年前。

It was too late to look up his file at the courthouse, so we decided to hold off a day until we could get the details of what happened.

现在去法院查看他的档案已经太晚了，所以我们决定推迟一天，直到我们了解所发生事件的细节。

Maybe it was more complicated than it sounded.

也许事情比听起来更复杂。

I'd actually heard of cases in Idaho where boyfriends were charged with having sex with their underage girlfriends.

我实际上听说过爱达荷州的一些案件，其中男友被指控与未成年女友发生性关系。

Meanwhile, Channel 6 kept going with a second report.

与此同时，第六频道继续进行第二次报道。

--offender.

——罪犯。

He was convicted in 1992 of statutory rape of a child under 16.

1992年，他因法定强奸16岁以下儿童而被定罪。

He is just a subcontractor.

他只是一个分包商。

He doesn't work with the city of Boise directly.

他不直接与博伊西市合作。

Also, he doesn't work with children directly.

此外，他不直接与儿童一起工作。

He's a referee, and the GM says at any time, there are at least two or three officials on the ice, and that it's very unlikely that Kimball would have any one-on-one time with children, that he would be left alone with them at all.

他是一名裁判，总经理在任何时候都会说，场上至少有两到三名裁判，金博尔不太可能与孩子们进行一对一的交流，他根本不会单独和他们在一起。

Now, again, this--

现在，再一次，这个——

Well, I felt the initial concern of a sex offender working with children at Ice World was completely valid.

嗯，我觉得性犯罪者最初对在冰世界与儿童一起工作的担忧是完全有道理的。

Here's Brandi again.

布兰迪又来了。

Brandi Smith But as the day progressed, I think we learned more about what the charge was, how long ago it had been.

布兰迪·史密斯 但随着时间的推移，我想我们更多地了解了指控的内容以及发生的时间。

And by the time the live shot rolled around, I just remember voicing concern to my photographer.

当现场拍摄开始时，我只记得向我的摄影师表达了担忧。

And I just kept commenting to Lance, we're ruining this guy's life.

我一直对兰斯说，我们正在毁掉这个人的生活。

We're ruining his life.

我们正在毁掉他的生活。

At the time, I was actually just doing some work on my computer, and it was just before 5 o'clock.

当时我其实只是在电脑上做点工作，时间已经快到五点了。

It was literally five minutes of 5:00, just before they go on the air.

这实际上是 5:00 的五分钟，就在节目播出之前。

And here's the guy who all the fuss was about, Jim Kimball.

吉姆·金博尔（Jim Kimball）是引起人们大惊小怪的人。

And I actually got a call from an attorney friend of mine who was our state risk manager for Idaho amateur hockey.

事实上，我接到了我的一位律师朋友的电话，他是我们爱达荷州业余曲棍球队的州风险经理。

And he said, look out.

他说，小心。

Jim's a 39-year-old hockey and football fanatic, husband and father of two.

吉姆 (Jim) 39 岁，是一名曲棍球和足球狂热爱好者、丈夫和两个孩子的父亲。

He didn't know it, but news editors all over the state were deciding that day whether to wreak havoc with his life, to dredge his name up for a crime he'd committed 13 years earlier.

他并不知道，那天全州的新闻编辑都在决定是否要对他的生活造成严重破坏，是否要为他 13 年前犯下的罪行揭发罪名。

He was at a point in his life where he thought the story was behind him.

在他生命中的某个时刻，他认为这个故事已经过去了。

Well, my first reaction was, I think my stomach fell somewhere down around my toes.

好吧，我的第一反应是，我想我的胃落在了脚趾附近的某个地方。

I'm like, who-- I had all these-- basically, I was a walking question mark.

我想，我拥有所有这些，基本上，我是一个行走的问号。

I didn't know who or what or why.

我不知道是谁、什么或为什么。

And that night I think my wife was working a little bit late, so I phoned her and said, we've got a problem here.

那天晚上，我觉得我妻子工作得有点晚了，所以我打电话给她说，我们遇到了问题。

So here's where, after day one of the Channel 6 coverage, the two stations diverged for good on the Kimball story.

因此，在第六频道报道的第一天之后，两家电视台在金博尔的故事上就出现了分歧。

I went to the courthouse the next day and got his case file.

第二天我去了法院并拿到了他的案卷。

I found out Jim was 23 at the time, his alleged victim a 15-year-old girl.

我发现吉姆当时 23 岁，他所谓的受害者是一名 15 岁的女孩。

But looking closely at his record, I found out he wasn't actually a convicted sex offender, as Channel 6 had been reporting.

但仔细观察他的记录，我发现他实际上并不是像第六频道报道的那样是一名被定罪的性犯罪者。

The judge on the case had withheld judgment for three years.

审理此案的法官已将判决搁置三年。

There were conditions.

有条件。

Jim did 90 days in a work-release program, took classes for sex offenders, and was on probation.

吉姆参加了 90 天的工作释放计划，参加了针对性犯罪者的课程，并处于缓刑期。

At the end of the three years, the same judge dismissed the case.

三年结束时，同一位法官驳回了此案。

But Channel 6 wasn't reporting that part.

但第六频道并没有报道这部分内容。

Because of a technicality, Jim still had to register as a sex offender, even though his charge had been dismissed.

由于技术原因，吉姆仍然必须登记为性犯罪者，尽管他的指控已被驳回。

The hockey association that hired him knew all about his record.

雇用他的曲棍球协会了解他的所有记录。

He never lied about it.

他从不对此撒谎。

I talked it over with my news director, and we decided this wasn't a thing, not in 2005.

我和我的新闻总监讨论过这个问题，我们认为这不是问题，2005 年就不是这样了。

My station, Channel 2, never did the story, neither did Channel 7, or Channel 12, or the AP, or the Idaho Statesman , or the local radio stations.

我的电台第二频道从未报道过这个故事，第七频道、十二频道、美联社、爱达荷政治家报或当地广播电台也没有报道过。

But Channel 6, our closest competitor, kept at it day after day.

但我们最接近的竞争对手第六频道日复一日地坚持不懈。

My news director at the time was Mark Browning.

我当时的新闻总监是马克·布朗宁。

He watched it all in the newsroom, knowing his boss downstairs was watching it, too.

他在新闻编辑室里观看了这一切，知道楼下的老板也在观看。

Did you feel a pounding in those days after the initial story broke?

在最初的故事曝光后的那些日子里，你是否感到很震惊？

I did.

我做到了。

And I remember some of the talk within the newsroom, and even within the discussions with our management team, said, did we miss one here?

我记得新闻编辑室里的一些谈话，甚至在与我们的管理团队的讨论中，我们说，我们在这里错过了一个吗？

In our hesitancy to be ultra-correct, did we miss one here?

在我们犹豫是否要极端正确的过程中，我们是否错过了这里的一个？

And we still were very confident there was no story there.

我们仍然非常有信心那里没有故事。

But it was hard, from a competitive standpoint.

但从竞争的角度来看，这很难。

And in our situation, we were a distant number-three station.

在我们的情况下，我们是一个遥远的第三站。

We needed wins like that, with so-called big stories, to be able to go to the people and say, look, this is what you miss by not watching Channel 2.

我们需要这样的胜利，通过所谓的大故事，能够对人们说，看，这就是你不看第二频道就会错过的东西。

The two news directors simply had two different ideas about whether Kimball deserved to have his face appear in living rooms all over his hometown.

对于金博尔是否值得让他的脸出现在他家乡各地的客厅里，两位新闻总监只是有两种不同的想法。

My boss, Mark, thought the guy had paid for his crime, and there was no reason to humiliate him all over again.

我的老板马克认为这个人已经为他的罪行付出了代价，没有理由再次羞辱他。

Big difference, in my book, between sexual predator and sexual offender.

在我的书中，性掠夺者和性犯罪者之间有很大的区别。

But you attach that word "sexual" in front of it, and it changes the entire dynamic with people.

但是你在它前面加上“性”这个词，它就改变了人们之间的整个动态。

And I think what it does is it gives newsrooms license to hunt, where really there's no game there.

我认为它的作用是给予新闻编辑室狩猎的许可，而那里确实没有游戏。

Scott, at Channel 6, he thought the guy basically had it coming.

第六频道的斯科特认为这个人基本上已经成功了。

Jim was driving a school bus when this happened, and the girl he tried to have sex with was a student on his route.

事情发生时，吉姆正在驾驶校车，而他试图与之发生性关系的女孩是他沿途的一名学生。

To Scott, this was a breach of public trust that shouldn't be forgiven, regardless of whether the charge had been dismissed.

对斯科特来说，这是对公众信任的违背，无论指控是否被驳回，都不应该被原谅。

Whatever the legal standing, he did it.

无论法律地位如何，他都做到了。

He did it.

他做到了。

And to Joe Smith out there, the legalities of the thing are not really as relevant as the fact that this is a man who violated a trust, and did something that, frankly, I would have never done, and I think that most men put in a position of trust like that don't contemplate doing.

对于乔·史密斯来说，这件事的合法性并不重要，重要的是这个人违反了信任，做了一些坦率地说我永远不会做的事情，而且我认为大多数处于信任地位的人都不会考虑这样做。

He made a decision.

他做出了决定。

He made a conscious decisions.

他做出了有意识的决定。

This wasn't like an accidental act of sex.

这不像是一次意外的性行为。

That's the kind of decision that's going to affect him for the rest of his life.

这个决定将影响他的余生。

There was another angle to Jim's story, which is what allowed it to live on for days.

吉姆的故事还有另一个角度，这使得它能够流传数日。

Jim worked for a city-owned ice rink, but he was hired by a subcontractor.

吉姆在一家市属溜冰场工作，但他被一家分包商雇用。

Back when he applied for the job, the subcontractor had automatically denied his application because of his record, but they encouraged him to appeal the decision, and he did.

当他申请这份工作时，分包商因他的记录而自动拒绝了他的申请，但他们鼓励他对该决定提出上诉，他确实这样做了。

A state panel found that Jim wasn't a risk to kids, and he got the job.

州委员会发现吉姆不会对孩子构成威胁，因此他得到了这份工作。

But city officials said they didn't know any of this until Channel 6 aired the story.

但市政府官员表示，直到第六频道播出这个故事后，他们才知道此事。

On camera, they said they would review their hiring policy.

在镜头前，他们表示将审查他们的招聘政策。

So for Scott, the story became a TV news trifecta.

因此，对于斯科特来说，这个故事成为了电视新闻的三连环。

It had a dubious main character, a public accountability angle, and the bonus of a possible policy change.

它有一个可疑的主角，一个公共责任角度，以及可能的政策变化的好处。

Scott wrote a memo to the staff congratulating them on their work.

斯科特给员工写了一份备忘录，祝贺他们的工作。

They had what we in the TV news business might refer to as a win.

他们取得了我们电视新闻行业可能所说的胜利。

Brandi, the reporter, should have been feeling great.

记者布兰迪应该感觉很棒。

Instead, she felt awful.

相反，她感觉很糟糕。

This guy had a clean record from then until now.

这家伙从那时到现在，记录都是清白的。

A judge had withheld judgment on the charge.

法官暂缓对该指控作出判决。

A board of several people had decided he was OK to work with children.

几个人组成的董事会决定他可以从事儿童工作。

So where do I come in and say, no, that's not right?

那么我该从哪里说，不，这是不对的呢？

We were doing more damage to his life than we were benefiting the community.

我们对他的生活造成的损害比我们给社区带来的好处还要多。

So why are we doing the story, besides to damage this man?

那么，除了伤害这个人之外，我们为什么要写这个故事呢？

And I called the newsroom and said, I just don't know.

我打电话给新闻编辑室说，我就是不知道。

I'm not certain that we should go with this.

我不确定我们是否应该这样做。

And I don't remember if it was our executive producer or if it was Scott just saying, you have to do this.

我不记得是我们的执行制片人还是斯科特只是说，你必须这样做。

And I said, I don't want to.

我说，我不想。

And it was, you're doing the story.

是的，你正在讲故事。

Get over it, you're doing the story.

克服它，你正在讲故事。

Stop complaining.

别再抱怨了。

You're out there.

你就在外面。

You're going to go live in 15 minutes.

15 分钟后您将上线。

That's it.

就是这样。

Scott remembers the argument, but from his point of view, Brandi just didn't understand the bigger picture of what he was trying to do.

斯科特记得这场争论，但从他的角度来看，布兰迪只是不明白他想要做什么的大局。

Brandi, when she was here-- and I love Brandi to death, but she was extremely young, and was very inexperienced.

布兰迪，当她在这里的时候——我爱死布兰迪了，但她非常年轻，而且非常缺乏经验。

And this is not meant to be an insult on Brandi or anyone here, but the fact of the matter is that in order to become a viable journalistic organization in this market, we had to step up our game some.

这并不是对布兰迪或这里的任何人的侮辱，但事实是，为了成为这个市场上可行的新闻组织，我们必须加强我们的游戏。

And I think sometimes people need to understand that, just because you're uncomfortable with something, or just because you're being asked to do something that's not in your realm, doesn't necessarily make it incorrect or wrong.

我认为有时人们需要明白这一点，仅仅因为你对某件事感到不舒服，或者仅仅因为你被要求做一些不属于你的领域的事情，并不一定意味着它是不正确或错误的。

It just means you have to go to the next level.

这只是意味着你必须进入下一个级别。

You have to take it to a new level.

你必须把它提升到一个新的水平。

For Scott, Jim Kimball was the next level.

对于斯科特来说，吉姆·金博尔是下一个层次。

This story was exactly the kind of thing he wanted his reporters to be doing every day.

这个故事正是他希望他的记者每天做的事情。

Scott had been hired at Channel 6 just two weeks earlier.

斯科特在两周前刚刚被第六频道聘用。

His bosses felt the station was going nowhere.

他的老板们觉得车站毫无进展。

Scott was supposed to turn it all around.

斯科特本应扭转这一切。

His strategy was to make what he calls a hard-nose convenience play, which means a lot of short hard-news stories packed into 10-minute chunks.

他的策略是制作他所说的硬派便利剧，这意味着将大量简短的硬新闻故事塞进 10 分钟的片段中。

The station dropped its 6 On Your Side slogan, and became Today's Channel 6 News.

该台放弃了“6 On Your Side”口号，并成为“今日新闻 6 频道”。

When I first walked in Channel 6, I had never walked into a newsroom in my life that had as much of an inferiority complex as this one did.

当我第一次走进第六台时，我一生中从未走进过像这家这样充满自卑情结的新闻编辑室。

They just all looked over and they said, we're never going to be as good as the other guys.

他们只是看过来，然后说，我们永远不会像其他人那么好。

We're never going to do better.

我们永远不会做得更好。

We're never going to win.

我们永远不会赢。

So it was a very, very depressing place.

所以那是一个非常非常令人沮丧的地方。

And I walked in there and said, you know what, you're not only going to be as good as Channel 7, you're going to be better.

我走进去说，你知道吗，你们不仅会和第七频道一样好，而且会更好。

Every day, every minute you're on the air, you're going to be better.

每一天、每一分钟，你都会变得更好。

You're going to work twice as hard.

你会加倍努力工作。

You're going to produce three times more work than they do.

你将完成比他们多三倍的工作。

And there was a lot of pressure.

而且压力很大。

This new guy comes in.

这个新人进来了。

You never know what he plans to do with reporters.

你永远不知道他打算对记者做什么。

You never know what he plans to do with anchors.

你永远不知道他打算用主播做什么。

The entire newsroom was in upheaval, essentially.

整个新闻编辑室基本上都处于剧变之中。

So there was a sense that everyone was trying to prove themselves to him.

所以有一种感觉，每个人都想向他证明自己。

We need to stay.

我们需要留下来。

You need to keep us as a reporter.

你需要让我们继续当记者。

Please don't fire us.

请不要解雇我们。

Under her previous boss, Brandi was supposed to deliver a story from a live location during her shift, which was the night shift.

在她前任老板的领导下，布兰迪应该在轮班期间（即夜班）在现场发表故事。

And even then, she didn't go live every single night.

即便如此，她也没有每晚都去直播。

Under Scott, that requirement tripled.

在斯科特的领导下，这一要求增加了两倍。

She had to go live at 5:30, 6:00, and 10:00.

她必须在 5:30、6:00 和 10:00 上线。

--On Your Side.

——在你身边。

We will have the latest for this story tomorrow.

明天我们将获得这个故事的最新消息。

Reporting live in Boise, Brandi Smith, 6 On Your Side.

博伊西现场报道，布兰迪·史密斯，6 On Your Side。

On the Kimball story, since no other media thought it was worth covering, it became a Channel 6 exclusive, and Scott made sure every anchor mentioned it at every broadcast.

关于金博尔的故事，由于没有其他媒体认为值得报道，因此它成为第六频道的独家报道，斯科特确保每个主播在每次广播时都提到它。

Scott says he was signalling to the public that the station was changing, and also trying to boost morale inside the office.

斯科特说，他向公众发出信号，表明电视台正在发生变化，并试图提高办公室内部的士气。

They were kicking ass and he wanted everyone to know it.

他们正在踢屁股，他希望每个人都知道这一点。

Brandi Smith is live with the story you'll see only on 6.

布兰迪·史密斯 (Brandi Smith) 正在直播您只能在 6 号节目中看到的故事。

The move seems to be in response to a 6 On Your Side investigation where we found a registered sex offender was allowed--

此举似乎是为了回应 6 On Your Side 调查，我们发现登记在册的性犯罪者是被允许的——

It's an exclusive story.

这是一个独家的故事。

Brandi, you've been all over it.

布兰迪，你已经经历过这一切了。

I'm sure you'll continue to follow it for us, tell us what the exact--

我相信您会继续为我们追踪，告诉我们到底是什么——

They had Brandi go live from Ice World three times that first day.

第一天，他们让布兰迪在冰世界直播了三次。

They showed an undated, grainy headshot of Jim, his hair short like a buzz cut.

他们展示了吉姆一张未注明日期、颗粒状的头像，他的头发短得像平头。

He looks uncomfortable.

他看起来很不舒服。

In later broadcasts, they showed that same picture in black and white, even though the shot in the registry was in color.

在后来的广播中，他们以黑白方式展示了同一张照片，尽管登记处的照片是彩色的。

At one point, the video slowly zooms in to Jim's eyes, fades them in and out.

在某一时刻，视频慢慢地放大到吉姆的眼睛，然后淡入淡出。

But the thing that really killed Jim was that they juxtaposed his mug shot with video of little kids skating and walking around the rink.

但真正杀死吉姆的是，他们将他的脸部照片与小孩子在溜冰场上滑冰和行走的视频并置在一起。

They're showing Mighty Mite kids that are five, six, seven years old.

他们正在展示五岁、六岁、七岁的 Mighty Mite 孩子。

It makes me look like a pervert, and that I was preying on six- and seven-year-old kids.

这让我看起来像个变态，而且我正在捕食六七岁的孩子。

That's false.

那是假的。

And so when I look at that, I'm going, wrong, wrong, wrong.

所以当我看到这一点时，我就错了，错了，错了。

To me, even though, yeah, I have a public record, but I feel in some ways they treated this as like a National Enquirer story, like this is going to draw in viewers.

对我来说，尽管我有公开记录，但我觉得在某些方面他们把这当作《国家询问报》的故事，就像这会吸引观众一样。

We've got this exclusive.

我们有这个独家的。

Jim's real story isn't the most sympathetic.

吉姆的真实故事并不是最令人同情的。

He lives with his wife and two daughters in a Boise suburb in a modest house in one of those newer cookie-cutter subdivisions.

他与妻子和两个女儿住在博伊西郊区一栋简陋的房子里，房子位于一个较新的千篇一律的小区中。

He makes sure his daughters aren't within earshot as he tells me what happened.

当他告诉我发生了什么事时，他确保他的女儿们不在我能听到的范围内。

Jim says he was immature at the time, living at home with his parents.

吉姆说他当时还很不成熟，和父母一起住在家里。

He says he struck up a flirtation with the girl, picked her up at her house one day.

他说他和那个女孩调情，有一天去她家接她。

They didn't quite have sex, but it amounted to the same thing.

他们并没有完全发生性关系，但本质上是一样的。

He's pretty clear that he was an idiot to have done it.

他很清楚他这么做是个白痴。

I don't know what I was thinking at the time.

我不知道我当时在想什么。

I think the problem was I wasn't thinking at the time, and that's what led to it.

我认为问题在于我当时没有思考，这就是导致它的原因。

I've regretted it every day.

我每天都在后悔。

And there's probably not a day goes by that you don't think about it, maybe for even just a split second.

你可能每天都在思考这个问题，哪怕只有一瞬间。

Before the story broke on Channel 6, things were going pretty well for Jim and his wife, [?

在第六频道报道这个故事之前，吉姆和他的妻子一切进展顺利，[？

Shar.

莎尔。

?] They were working on getting his record expunged.

？]他们正在努力消除他的记录。

Their daughters were doing well at school.

他们的女儿在学校表现很好。

Once the story hit, it was like their lives had exploded.

故事一出，他们的生活就爆炸了。

They had to tell friends about the rape charge, and wonder if they'd stay friends.

他们必须将强奸指控告诉朋友，并想知道他们是否会继续做朋友。

They had to tell their nine-year-old daughter about Jim's mistake, years before they'd planned to, in case people were talking about it at school.

他们不得不提前几年告诉九岁的女儿吉姆的错误，以防人们在学校谈论这件事。

They worried that if he attended his daughter's school functions, someone would report him for being around kids, and so he skipped his older daughter's choir concert.

他们担心，如果他参加女儿的学校活动，有人会举报他与孩子们在一起，因此他没有参加大女儿的合唱团音乐会。

Jim told me he cried on and off for days.

吉姆告诉我，他断断续续地哭了好几天。

So did his wife.

他的妻子也是如此。

Even talking about it now, she cries.

即使现在说起这件事，她也会哭。

?] You know, there's a lot of people that we know, that we'd known for years, that had known us for years, that didn't really understand what had happened and why it happened.

？]你知道，有很多我们认识的人，我们认识很多年了，认识我们很多年了，他们并不真正理解发生了什么以及为什么会发生。

They misinterpret the charge.

他们误解了这项指控。

They misinterpret what he is.

他们误解了他的本质。

What do you think?

你怎么认为？

When you watched that news coverage, how do you think they depicted your husband?

当您观看该新闻报道时，您认为他们如何描述您的丈夫？

?] As a child molester.

？]作为儿童猥亵者。

And that's how people at my work saw it.

我的同事也是这么看的。

That's how lot of people saw it.

很多人都看到了这样的情况。

They saw him as a child molester.

他们把他视为儿童猥亵者。

What did they say to you?

他们对你说了什么？

Shar Kimball ?] Primarily, they went to my supervisor.

Shar Kimball？] 主要是，他们去找了我的主管。

And [?

和 [？

Jade ?] asked me what was going on, and I told her the whole story.

杰德？]问我发生了什么事，我告诉了她整个故事。

And she said, people are asking questions.

她说，人们在问问题。

And I said, just send them to me.

我说，把它们寄给我吧。

I'll talk to them, but--

我会和他们谈谈，但是——

Jim's across the room, leaning up against the wall.

吉姆在房间的另一边，靠在墙上。

He looks ashamed and sad.

他看上去既羞愧又悲伤。

Are you OK, Jim?

你还好吗，吉姆？

James Kimball Yeah.

詹姆斯·金博尔 是的。

No, this is fine.

不，这很好。

Anybody else would have probably told me to go to hell.

如果是其他人，可能会告诉我见鬼去吧。

And rightfully so.

这是理所当然的。

Were you really that close?

你们真的那么亲近吗？

Shar Kimball ?] When this all came back to the front, like I said, it almost ruined our lives.

沙尔·金博尔？]当这一切回到前台时，就像我说的，它几乎毁了我们的生活。

It really did.

确实如此。

It must have been very difficult to stand by him during that time.

那段时间能站在他身边一定很困难。

It ?] still is.

它？]仍然是。

Thanh Tan After a couple of days, Jim was fired from Ice World.

Thanh Tan 几天后，吉姆被冰世界解雇了。

A sex offender working with Treasure Valley children as a hockey referee is off the ice tonight.

一名与宝藏谷儿童一起工作的性犯罪者担任曲棍球裁判，今晚将离开冰场。

The city of Boise suspended James Kimball from Idaho Ice World after 6 On Your Side broke news of his past.

在 6 On Your Side 爆料詹姆斯·金博尔 (James Kimball) 的过去后，博伊西市暂停了他在爱达荷冰世界的活动。

Brandi Smith joins us with much more on a story you'll see only on 6.

布兰迪·史密斯 (Brandi Smith) 与我们一起讲述了您只能在 6 中看到的故事的更多内容。

Brandi?

布兰迪？

I think the biggest thing in this whole ordeal was they never once, not one time, ever called to ask my side.

我认为在这整个磨难中最重要的事情是他们从来没有一次打电话询问我的情况。

So let's not go to the source and let's not go to the person who actually did this.

因此，我们不要追究源头，也不要追究真正做这件事的人。

Let's just do a submarine job on him, and the hell with the facts.

让我们对他进行一次潜艇调查，让事实见鬼去吧。

That's crap reporting.

这就是垃圾报道。

Scott Picken, Brandi's boss, says his staff tried to contact Jim but couldn't find a number.

布兰迪的老板斯科特·皮肯说，他的员工试图联系吉姆，但找不到电话号码。

In fact, Jim couldn't have been easier to find when the story broke.

事实上，当故事曝光时，找到吉姆再容易不过了。

He's in the phone book.

他在电话簿里。

His address is online.

他的地址在网上。

But this is the sort of story where if you talk to the person and find out all the facts, it can kill the story.

但在这种故事中，如果你与这个人交谈并找出所有事实，它就会毁掉这个故事。

I don't remember if we looked him up, if we tried to call him.

我不记得我们是否看过他，是否试图给他打电话。

I don't know that we did.

我不知道我们做到了。

Why not?

为什么不呢？

Brandi Smith I don't know.

布兰迪·史密斯 我不知道。

I'm sorry, I'm trying to remember.

对不起，我正在努力回忆。

No, I don't think I ever called him.

不，我想我从来没有给他打过电话。

And that was likely bad reporting on my part.

这对我来说可能是糟糕的报道。

I probably ought to have tried to call him and get his side of the story.

我或许应该试着打电话给他，听听他的说法。

And I don't know why I didn't.

我不知道为什么我没有这么做。

Months after she did the Kimball story, a coworker at Channel 6 told Brandi she should include it on her resume tape.

在她完成《金博尔》的故事几个月后，第六频道的一位同事告诉布兰迪，她应该将其纳入她的简历磁带中。

Brandi didn't.

布兰迪没有。

It's not a story she's proud of.

这不是一个让她引以为傲的故事。

I've been in Brandi's situation more times than I'd like to admit.

我遇到布兰迪的情况的次数比我愿意承认的还要多。

I've had to cover stories I hated.

我不得不报道我讨厌的故事。

I've made mistakes.

我犯过错误。

I've smeared people's names because of those mistakes, like the time police gave me the wrong mug shot for a suspect on the run.

由于这些错误，我抹黑了人们的名字，就像警察给了我错误的在逃嫌疑人的脸部照片一样。

Yeah.

是的。

Imagine being that guy.

想象一下自己就是那个人。

I felt like a dumbass, but it was live TV.

我觉得自己像个傻瓜，但这是电视直播。

There was no time to double-check.

没有时间仔细检查。

You're sometimes assigned three different stories in a day, so at some point, you make do with what you have.

有时你一天会被分配三个不同的故事，所以在某些时候，你会用现有的东西来应付。

Scott stands by their coverage of Jim.

斯科特坚持他们对吉姆的报道。

He says they acted in good faith, and that's the main thing.

他说他们的行为是出于善意，这是最重要的。

Even as he watches the stories with us again on a DVD, it's not the content that bothers him so much as the production value.

即使当他再次与我们一起观看 DVD 上的故事时，令他烦恼的并不是内容，而是制作价值。

All he sees is how far they've come.

他所看到的只是他们已经走了多远。

Yeah, the graphics are ugly, to say the least.

是的，至少可以说，图形很丑陋。

Michelle, we've done a lot with Michelle in order to change her image and change her look.

米歇尔，我们为米歇尔做了很多事情，以改变她的形象和外观。

We've actually worked with cosmetic and look consultants and what have you.

实际上，我们已经与化妆品和外观顾问以及您有过合作。

We've changed the background of the set, got it less orange and things along those lines.

我们改变了场景的背景，减少了橙色，等等。

We don't use three-shot desk sets anymore at all.

我们不再使用三镜头桌面套件了。

And so things along those lines--

所以事情沿着这些思路——

We've got this saying in the business, "We have to make the black go away," meaning we have to fill the news shows with something.

我们业内有这样一句话：“我们必须让黑人消失”，这意味着我们必须在新闻节目中加入一些东西。

Car crashes and crime are really easy to do.

车祸和犯罪确实很容易发生。

They don't take up resources, and they freak people out, get people talking.

它们不占用资源，而且会吓到人们，让人们议论纷纷。

As much as I'd like to say our station came out ahead by not covering the Kimball story, I can't.

尽管我很想说我们的电台因不报道金博尔的故事而领先，但我不能。

This coverage worked for Channel 6.

此报道适用于第六频道。

It set the stage for their comeback.

这为他们的复出奠定了基础。

And the result of that has been numerous awards, an Emmy for Best Newscast, which we are very proud of.

其结果是获得了无数奖项，包括艾美奖最佳新闻广播奖，我们对此感到非常自豪。

And a product which people are watching more and more.

也是人们越来越关注的产品。

Our July book just came in.

我们七月份的书刚刚到了。

We are up 75% at 10 o'clock.

10点我们已经上涨了75%。

And I suppose a cynic could say it's all about ratings, it's all about ratings, it's all about ratings.

我想愤世嫉俗者可能会说这一切都与收视率有关，这一切都与收视率有关，这一切都与收视率有关。

No, it's about more than that.

不，事情的意义远不止于此。

I have this analogy I like to use sometimes.

我有时喜欢用这个比喻。

If a tree falls in the woods and there's not a news crew there to film it, did it happen?

如果树林里有一棵树倒下，而没有新闻工作人员在那里拍摄，这真的发生了吗？

And the answer is, well, yes, but who cares?

答案是，是的，但是谁在乎呢？

The fact of the matter is is that there's no relevance to it, because no one knows about it.

事实是，这与它无关，因为没有人知道它。

Your stories gain impact, are more valuable, when more people are watching them.

当更多人观看时，您的故事就会产生影响力，变得更有价值。

And that's the important thing that you need to remember about the drive for ratings.

这是您需要记住的有关收视率驱动力的重要事情。

It is not an unworthy goal.

这并不是一个不值得的目标。

It's a very worthy goal.

这是一个非常有价值的目标。

If I'd had Scott as my news director instead of Mark, I could have easily been the reporter ordered to stand outside Ice World that day, showing everyone that disturbing picture of Jim.

如果我让斯科特而不是马克担任我的新闻总监，我很容易成为那天被命令站在冰世界外面的记者，向每个人展示吉姆令人不安的照片。

And I have to ask myself whether I would have had the courage to walk away from the story.

我必须问自己是否有勇气离开这个故事。

I hate saying this, but probably not.

我讨厌这么说，但可能不是。

Scott's convincing, and it's tempting to want to see the business the way he does.

斯科特很有说服力，人们很容易想以他的方式看待这个行业。

If ratings are any measure, a lot of people do.

如果说收视率有什么衡量标准的话，那么很多人都会这样做。

Thanh Tan.

清谭。

She's now a TV reporter in Portland, Oregon.

她现在是俄勒冈州波特兰市的一名电视记者。

Well, our program was produced today by Robyn Semien and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Jane Feltes, John Jeter, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.

好吧，我们今天的节目是由 Robyn Semien 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Jane Feltes、John Jeter、Sarah Koenig、Lisa Pollak、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 制作的。

Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.

我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。

Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.

阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。

Production help from Seth Lind and Bruce Wallace.

塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 和布鲁斯·华莱士 (Bruce Wallace) 为制作提供帮助。

Music help from Jessica Hopper.

杰西卡·霍珀的音乐帮助。

[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.

[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。

[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia.

[资金来源] 我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对 WBEZ 项目进行了管理监督。

You know, right before today's show, I went to him and said I wasn't sure about doing that Pickle story.

你知道，就在今天的演出之前，我去找他说我不确定是否要拍那个 Pickle 故事。

But he told me,

但他告诉我，

You're doing the story.

你正在编故事。

Get over it.

克服它。

You're doing the story.

你正在编故事。

Stop complaining.

别再抱怨了。

You're going to go live in 15 minutes.

15 分钟后您将上线。

That's it.

就是这样。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Back next week, with more stories of This American Life .

下周将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。