336: Who Can You Save? - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #336 | July 6, 2007 336: Who Can You Save?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 336 集 | 2007 年 7 月 6 日 336：你能拯救谁？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Tim Jaccard is full of stories that from anybody else would not be believable.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 蒂姆·杰卡德 充满了其他任何人都无法相信的故事。
For instance, this girl, Katie Longendyke, who had no idea she was pregnant until the day she gave birth.
例如，这个女孩凯蒂·朗根代克(Katie Longendyke)直到分娩那天才知道自己怀孕了。
She was actually taking birth control pills during the entire pregnancy and was unaware of it.
事实上，她在整个怀孕期间都在服用避孕药，但她自己并不知道。
So she was in what we refer to as denial.
所以她处于我们所说的否认状态。
Total denial on this pregnancy.
完全否认这次怀孕。
She started having abdominal pain.
她开始出现腹痛。
She says she never felt the baby kicking ever.
她说她从来没有感觉到婴儿在踢。
And then there was the 15-year-old in Staten Island who kept her entire pregnancy secret from her parents.
还有一位来自史泰登岛的 15 岁女孩，她向父母隐瞒了自己怀孕的整个过程。
And then she actually gave birth in her bedroom by herself with her mother and father sleeping at the other end of the house.
然后她实际上独自在自己的卧室里生了孩子，她的父母睡在房子的另一端。
She hid that pregnancy straight through.
她直接隐瞒了怀孕的事。
And she handed the baby off to us on the side of the building and told us to leave.
她把婴儿交给大楼一侧的我们，并让我们离开。
And we disappeared with the baby.
然后我们就带着孩子消失了。
Tim got into the business of rescuing babies years ago.
蒂姆几年前就开始从事营救婴儿的工作。
He was a medical officer in an ambulance.
他是救护车上的一名医务人员。
And he was sickened by the number of one-day-old babies that they would be called out for, babies that had been killed or left to die.
他对他们被叫去救的一日大婴儿的数量感到恶心，这些婴儿被杀死或任其死去。
In 1998, he helped write the country's first safe-haven law that allows women to deliver their babies anonymously and relinquish them without going to prison for abandoning their kids.
1998年，他帮助制定了该国第一部避难法，允许妇女匿名分娩并放弃她们，而不必因遗弃孩子而入狱。
He started a hotline that hooks women up with free prenatal care and delivery, and adoption services if they don't want to raise the baby.
他开通了一条热线电话，为那些不想抚养孩子的女性提供免费的产前护理和分娩服务以及收养服务。
And it's had an effect.
并且已经产生了效果。
In New York where he operates, he says the number of dead babies that they find in a year has dropped from 16 back when he began to 3 nowadays.
他说，在他经营的纽约，一年内发现的死亡婴儿数量已从他刚开始工作时的 16 个下降到现在的 3 个。
That 3 still bothers him, though.
不过，那个 3 仍然困扰着他。
That there's still some mothers he can't reach.
还有一些他联系不到的母亲。
She called the crisis center, got on the phone.
她给危机中心打电话，接通了电话。
She was ready to give birth soon.
她很快就要分娩了。
I told her that we would come and help her.
我告诉她我们会来帮助她。
And I was supposed to meet her at a Burger King.
我本来应该在汉堡王见到她的。
And I waited for a good two and a half hours for her.
我等了她整整两个半小时。
I had the cell phone number of her.
我有她的手机号码。
I called her on the cell phone, called her back a couple of times.
我用手机给她打电话，又给她回了几次电话。
And there was no answer.
但没有人回答。
I told her I'm waiting for her.
我告诉她我在等她。
I'm not going to leave.
我不会离开。
You could go back, come.
你可以回去了，来吧。
I'm still here.
我还在这里。
And after two and a half hours, she never called.
两个半小时后，她再也没有打电话来。
And two days later, there was a baby found in a dumpster right near, in that neighborhood over there.
两天后，在附近那个街区的垃圾箱里发现了一个婴儿。
So I was just wondering whether or not-- was it this girl, or was it not this girl?
所以我只是想知道是否——是这个女孩，还是不是这个女孩？
We don't know.
我们不知道。
And we never will know.
我们永远不会知道。
So-- I just don't understand why she didn't come.
所以——我只是不明白她为什么没来。
Did I say something wrong?
我说错了吗？
Was I too aggressive?
我是不是太激进了？
I even asked her if she was willing to meet with a woman rather than me, with a man.
我什至问她是否愿意见一个女人而不是我，一个男人。
She just didn't show up.
她只是没有出现。
OK, you see Gabriel.
好的，你看到加布里埃尔了。
Gabriel Hope, Christina Hope.
加布里埃尔·霍普、克里斯蒂娜·霍普。
We have Jonathan and Matthew, Holly Hope.
我们有乔纳森和马修，还有霍莉·霍普。
And rows.
和行。
We have-- Ira Glass One, two, three, four.
我们有——艾拉·格拉斯 一、二、三、四。
How many--
有多少——
84 babies buried here at this site here.
84个婴儿被埋葬在这里。
At Holy Rood Cemetery, Tim has arranged for funeral plots for the babies that he has not been able to save.
在圣路德公墓，蒂姆为他未能拯救的婴儿安排了墓地。
The strangest thing about these little grave markers is that there's just one date beside each name.
这些小墓碑最奇怪的地方在于，每个名字旁边只有一个日期。
The date of birth is the date of death.
出生日期就是死亡日期。
Whoever finds the baby chooses a first name.
找到婴儿的人都会选择名字。
Hope is always given as the last name.
希望总是作为姓氏给出。
Tim says that he used to think about it a lot, all the kids that he couldn't save.
蒂姆说他曾经想了很多，所有他无法拯救的孩子。
But now he does a kind of moral calculation.
但现在他做了一种道德算计。
He's at least able to give them a decent burial, he thinks.
他认为，他至少能够给他们一个体面的葬礼。
And news of each death gives him press, which leads to more pregnant moms coming forward to hand over their babies.
每次死亡的消息都会给他带来压力，这导致更多怀孕的妈妈们站出来交出她们的孩子。
Nicholas Hope, for instance-- we had four birth mothers call because of Nicholas Hope.
例如，尼古拉斯·霍普——因为尼古拉斯·霍普，我们接到了四位亲生母亲的电话。
He was found on top of a trash can in Hicksville Train Station.
他被发现在希克斯维尔火车站的垃圾桶顶上。
But through his death, we had four birth mothers call.
但在他去世后，我们接到了四位亲生母亲的电话。
Where's he?
他在哪儿？
Tim Jaccard Nicholas Hope, right here.
蒂姆·杰卡德·尼古拉斯·霍普，就在这里。
November 27 of last year, in winter.
去年11月27日，冬天。
This math, the four babies saved for the one that was lost, it's comforting to Tim, as are the photos on a bulletin board in his office-- there's got to be 100 of those shots-- of babies that he's saved, some of them now grown into little kids, smiling at the camera.
算起来，为失去的那个婴儿救下了四个婴儿，这让蒂姆感到安慰，他办公室的布告栏上的照片也是如此——肯定有 100 个这样的照片——他救下的婴儿，其中一些现在已经长成了小孩子，对着镜头微笑。
Which brings us to today's program.
这就引出了今天的节目。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our show, Who Can You Save?
今天我们的节目《你能拯救谁？》
Stories of people making this kind of life and death calculation.
人们进行这种生死算计的故事。
Act one of our show today, Kill One, Save Five.
扮演我们今天的节目之一，杀一救五。
Act two, Rescue You, Rescue Me.
第二幕，救救你，救救我。
Act three, The Murderer.
第三幕，凶手。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One.
第一幕。
So how do we make these moral calculations in our lives?
那么我们如何在生活中进行这些道德计算呢？
What is happening literally in our brains, really?
我们的大脑中到底发生了什么？
Well, my favorite new show on public radio these days, a show called Radiolab , took up that question not long ago.
嗯，最近我最喜欢的公共广播新节目，一个名为 Radiolab 的节目，不久前就提出了这个问题。
Radiolab is one of these shows that's still not on everywhere.
Radiolab 是其中之一，但尚未随处可见。
And in lots of places, it's on at weird times.
在很多地方，它都会在奇怪的时间开启。
And lots of people haven't heard it.
而且很多人都没听说过。
Chances are maybe you have never heard it.
您可能从未听说过。
And so we asked the hosts of Radiolab , Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, we asked them to let us excerpt some of what they said about this question.
因此，我们询问了 Radiolab 的主持人贾德·阿布姆拉德 (Jad Abumrad) 和罗伯特·克鲁维奇 (Robert Krulwich)，请他们让我们摘录一些他们对这个问题的看法。
Here they are.
他们在这里。
Everybody knows that sometimes you feel something is right, sometimes you feel something is wrong.
每个人都知道，有时你感觉某些事情是对的，有时你感觉某些事情是错的。
We want to know-- where does that feeling begin?
我们想知道——这种感觉从哪里开始？
Where does it come from?
它从哪里来？
How old is it?
几岁了？
Can we get started, please?
我们可以开始了吗？
Robert Krulwich OK, OK.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇 好吧，好吧。
I was just going on a bit.
我只是继续说一点。
Why don't we start with two morality thought experiments?
我们为什么不从两个道德思想实验开始呢？
Are you with me?
你和我在一起吗？
Begrudgingly, yes.
不情愿地，是的。
Jad Abumrad This is a famous problem.
Jad Abumrad 这是一个著名的问题。
It's been floating around forever.
它就这样一直飘浮在周围。
There are two parts to this problem.
这个问题有两个部分。
And you're going to have to make a choice at the end of each one.
你必须在每一个结束时做出选择。
Each one-- what?
每一个——什么？
You mean you're going to tell me a story?
你的意思是你要给我讲一个故事？
Yeah, I'm going to tell you a story.
是的，我要给你讲一个故事。
And you're going to make a choice.
你将做出选择。
Part one, you ready?
第一部，你准备好了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Jad Abumrad All right.
贾德·阿布拉德 好吧。
You're near some train tracks.
您靠近一些火车轨道。
Go there in your mind.
去你心里的那个地方吧。
There are five workers on the tracks, working.
铁轨上有五名工人正在工作。
They've got their backs turned to the trolley which is coming in the distance.
他们背对着远处驶来的电车。
This is unbeknownst to them, the trolley is approaching?
他们不知道的是，电车正在靠近？
They don't see it.
他们看不到。
You can't shout to them.
你不能对他们大喊大叫。
And if you do nothing, here's what will happen.
如果你什么都不做，就会发生以下情况。
[FIVE PEOPLE SCREAMING AS A TRAIN HITS THEM] Five workers will die.
[当火车撞上他们时，五个人尖叫] 五名工人将死亡。
Oh my God!
我的天啊！
That was a horrible experience.
那是一次可怕的经历。
I don't want that to happen to them.
我不希望这种事发生在他们身上。
No you don't.
不，你不知道。
But you have a choice.
但你有选择。
You can do A, nothing.
你可以做A，什么也不做。
Or B, it so happens next to you is a lever.
或者B，它恰好在你旁边是一个杠杆。
Pull the lever and the trolley will jump onto some side tracks where there is only one person working.
拉动操纵杆，小车就会跳到一些只有一个人工作的侧轨上。
[ONE PERSON SCREAMING AS A TRAIN HITS HIM]
[火车撞到他时，一个人尖叫]
So if the trolley goes on the second track, it will kill the one guy.
因此，如果电车进入第二条轨道，就会杀死那个人。
Yeah, so there's your choice.
是的，所以你可以选择。
Do you kill one man by pulling a lever?
你会通过拉动杠杆来杀死一个人吗？
Or do you kill five men by doing nothing?
或者你什么都不做就杀死了五个人？
Naturally.
自然。
All right.
好的。
Here's part two.
这是第二部分。
You're standing near some train tracks.
你正站在一些铁轨附近。
Five guys are on the tracks, just as before.
和以前一样，有五个人在轨道上。
And there is the trolley coming like before.
还有电车像以前一样来了。
I hear the train coming.
我听到火车来了。
The same five guys are working on the track?
同样的五个人也在赛道上工作？
Same five guys.
同样是五个人。
Robert Krulwich Backs to the train?
罗伯特·克鲁维奇 回到火车上？
They can't see it?
他们看不到吗？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Exactly.
确切地。
However, I'm going to make a couple of changes.
不过，我将做出一些改变。
Now you're standing on a foot bridge that passes over the tracks.
现在您正站在一座横跨铁轨的人行桥上。
You're looking down onto the tracks.
你正在俯视铁轨。
There's no lever anywhere to be seen.
到处都看不到杠杆。
Except next to you, there is a guy.
除了你旁边，还有一个人。
A large guy, large individual standing next to you on the bridge, looking down with you over the tracks.
桥上有一个大个子站在你旁边，和你一起俯视铁轨。
And you realize, wait, I can save those five workers if I push this man, give him a little tap.
你意识到，等等，如果我推这个人，轻轻拍他一下，我就可以救那五个工人。
[ONE PERSON SCREAMING AS HE FALLS FROM A BRIDGE] He'll land on the tracks, and--
[一个人从桥上掉下来时尖叫]他会落在铁轨上，然后——
Oh man, I'm not going to do that!
天哪，我不会那样做的！
I'm not going to do that.
我不会那样做。
But surely you realize that the math is the same.
但你肯定意识到数学是相同的。
You mean I'll save four people this way?
你的意思是我这样就能救四个人？
Yeah.
是的。
Robert Krulwich Yeah, but this time I'm pushing the guy.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇 是的，但这次我要推动这个家伙。
Are you insane?
你疯了吗？
No.
不。
All right, here's the thing.
好吧，事情就是这样。
If you ask people these questions-- and we did, starting with the first, is it OK to kill one man to save five using a lever-- 9 out of 10 people will say--
如果你问人们这些问题——我们确实这么做了，从第一个问题开始，用杠杆杀死一个人救五个人可以吗——十分之九的人会说——
Yeah.
是的。
Jad Abumrad But if you ask them, is it OK to kill one man to save five by pushing the guy, 9 out of 10 people will say--
贾德·阿布姆拉德 (Jad Abumrad) 但如果你问他们，通过推搡一个人来杀死一个人来拯救五个人是否可以，十分之九的人会说——
It is practically universal.
它实际上是通用的。
Marc Hauser Educational level, no effect.
Marc Hauser 教育水平，无影响。
Male versus female, no effect.
男对女，没有影响。
That's Marc Hauser, Professor at Harvard.
那是马克·豪瑟，哈佛大学教授。
He actually posed the trolley scenarios to hundreds of thousands of people on the internet and found the same thing.
事实上，他在互联网上向数十万人展示了电车场景，并发现了同样的结果。
Everyone agrees.
大家都同意。
But then he took it a step further and asked them why?
但随后他更进一步问他们为什么？
Why is murder-- because that's what it is-- why is murder OK when you're pulling a lever, but not OK when you're pushing the guy?
为什么谋杀——因为事情就是这样——为什么当你拉动杠杆时谋杀是可以的，但当你推那个人时就不可以了？
And what he found is that consistently, people have no clue.
他发现人们始终没有任何线索。
People have no clue.
人们毫无头绪。
They don't understand what drove their judgments, which were completely spontaneous and automatic and immediate.
他们不明白是什么驱使他们做出判断，这些判断完全是自发的、自动的和直接的。
And once they appreciate the dilemma that they're now in, of lack of consistency, the whole thing basically begins to unravel.
一旦他们认识到自己现在所处的困境，即缺乏一致性，整个事情基本上就开始瓦解。
The pulling the lever to save the five, I don't know.
拉动杠杆来拯救五个人，我不知道。
That feels better than pushing the one to save the five.
这比推动一个人拯救五个人感觉更好。
But I don't really know why.
但我真的不知道为什么。
So there's a good moral quandary for you.
所以你有一个很好的道德困境。
And if, as we said in the beginning, having a moral sense is a unique and special human quality, then maybe we-- us two humans anyway, you and me-- should at least inquire as to why this happens.
如果，正如我们一开始所说的那样，拥有道德感是一种独特而特殊的人类品质，那么也许我们——无论如何我们两个人，你和我——至少应该询问为什么会发生这种情况。
And I happened to have met somebody who has a hunch.
我碰巧遇到了一个有预感的人。
He's a young guy at Princeton University, wild curly hair, bit of mischief in his eye.
他是普林斯顿大学的一个年轻人，一头狂野的卷发，眼睛里带着一丝淘气。
His name is Josh Greene.
他的名字叫乔什·格林。
Alrighty.
好吧。
Robert Krulwich And he spent the last few years trying to figure out where this inconsistency comes from.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇（Robert Krulwich）过去几年他一直在试图找出这种不一致的根源。
How do people make this judgment?
人们如何做出这样的判断呢？
Forget whether or not these judgments are right or wrong.
忘记这些判断是对还是错。
Just what's going on in the brain that makes people distinguish so naturally and intuitively between these two cases, which from an actuarial point of view are very, very, very similar if not identical?
大脑中究竟发生了什么，让人们如此自然而直观地区分这两种情况，从精算的角度来看，这两种情况即使不相同，也非常非常相似？
Josh is, by the way, a philosopher and a neuroscientist.
顺便说一句，乔什是一位哲学家和神经科学家。
So this gives him special powers.
所以这赋予了他特殊的权力。
He doesn't sort of sit back in a chair, smoke a pipe, and think, now why do you have these differences?
他不会坐在椅子上，抽着烟斗，然后思考，为什么会有这些差异？
He said, no, I would like to look inside people's heads.
他说，不，我想看看人们的头脑。
Because in our heads, we may find clues as to where these feelings of revulsion or acceptance come from.
因为在我们的头脑中，我们可能会找到线索来了解这些厌恶或接受的感觉从何而来。
In our brains.
在我们的大脑中。
So we're here in the control room.
我们现在在控制室。
We basically just see--
我们基本上只是看到——
And it just so happens that in the basement of Princeton, there was this-- um, well--
碰巧的是，在普林斯顿大学的地下室里，有一个——嗯，嗯——
--big circular thing.
——大圆形的东西。
Josh Greene Yeah, it looks kind of like an airplane engine.
乔什·格林 是的，它看起来有点像飞机发动机。
180,000-pound brain scanner.
180,000 磅重的脑部扫描仪。
What Josh does is he invites people into this room, has them lie down on what is essentially a cot on rollers, and he rolls them into the machine.
乔什所做的就是邀请人们进入这个房间，让他们躺在本质上是滚轮床上的床上，然后他将他们滚进机器中。
Their heads are braced so they're stuck in there.
他们的头被支撑住，所以他们被困在那里。
Have you ever done this?
你曾经这样做过吗？
Josh Greene Oh, yeah.
乔什·格林 哦，是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Several times.
几次。
And then he tells them stories.
然后他给他们讲故事。
He tells them the same two trolley tales that you told before.
他给他们讲了你之前讲过的两个电车故事。
And then at the very instant that they're deciding, whether I should push the lever or whether I should push the man, at that instant, the scanner snaps pictures of their brains.
然后就在他们决定是我应该推杠杆还是我应该推那个人的那一刻，扫描仪拍下了他们大脑的照片。
And what he found in those pictures was frankly a little startling.
坦率地说，他在这些照片中发现的东西有点令人震惊。
He showed us some.
他给我们看了一些。
I'll show you some stuff.
我会给你看一些东西。
OK.
好的。
Robert Krulwich The picture that I'm looking at is a brain looked at, I guess, from the top down?
罗伯特·克鲁维奇 我正在看的图片是从上到下观察的大脑？
Yeah.
是的。
It's the top down and sort of sliced like a deli slicer.
它是自上而下的，有点像熟食切片机一样切片。
And the first slide that he showed me was a human brain being asked the question, would you pull the lever?
他给我看的第一张幻灯片是一个人脑被问到的问题，你会拉动杠杆吗？
And the answer in most cases was yes.
大多数情况下答案是肯定的。
Yeah, I'd pull the lever.
是的，我会拉动操纵杆。
Robert Krulwich When the brain's saying yes, you'd see little peanut-shaped spots of yellow.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇 当大脑说“是”时，你会看到花生状的黄色小斑点。
It's this little guy right here.
就是这个小家伙。
And these two guys right there.
还有这两个人就在那里。
The brain was being active in these places.
大脑在这些地方很活跃。
And oddly enough, whenever people said yes--
奇怪的是，每当人们说“是”时——
--to the lever question, the very same pattern lit up.
——对于杠杆问题，同样的模式亮了起来。
Then he showed me another slide.
然后他给我看了另一张幻灯片。
This was a slide of a brain saying no--
这是大脑的一张幻灯片说不——
No, I would not push the man.
不，我不会推那个男人。
Robert Krulwich --I will not push the large man.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇——我不会推这个大个子。
And in this picture--
而在这张照片中——
--it was a totally different constellation of regions that lit up.
——这是一个完全不同的区域群被照亮。
I think this is part of the no, no, no crowd.
我认为这是“不，不，不”人群的一部分。
So when people answer yes to the lever question, there are places in their brain which glow?
那么，当人们对杠杆问题回答“是”时，他们大脑中的某些地方会发光？
Right.
正确的。
But when they answer no, I will not push the man, then you get a completely different part of the brain lighting up.
但当他们回答“不”时，我不会推那个人，然后你的大脑完全不同的部分就会亮起来。
Even though the questions are basically the same?
即使问题基本相同？
Mhm.
嗯。
Jad Abumrad Well, what does that mean?
贾德·阿布姆拉德 那么，这是什么意思？
And what does Josh make of this?
乔什对此有何看法？
Well, a theory not proven.
好吧，一个尚未得到证实的理论。
But I think that this is what I think the evidence suggests.
但我认为这就是我认为证据表明的内容。
He suggests that the human brain doesn't hum along like one big unified system.
他认为人类大脑并不像一个大的统一系统那样运转。
Instead he says, maybe in your brain, in every brain, you'll find little, warring tribes, little sub-groups.
相反，他说，也许在你的大脑中，在每个大脑中，你都会发现一些小的、交战的部落、小的小组。
One that is doing the logical counting kind of thing.
一个正在做逻辑计数之类的事情。
You've got one part of the brain that says, huh, five lives versus one life?
你大脑的某一部分会说，嗯，五条命与一条命？
Wouldn't it be better to save five versus one?
以五对一救不是更好吗？
And that's the part that would glow when you answer yes, I'd pull the lever.
当你回答“是”时，这个部分就会发光，我会拉动控制杆。
Yeah, I'll pull the lever.
是的，我会拉动操纵杆。
Robert Krulwich But there's this other part of the brain which really, really doesn't like personally killing another human being, and gets very upset at the fat man case, and shouts in effect--
罗伯特·克鲁维奇：但是大脑的另一部分真的非常不喜欢亲手杀死另一个人，并且对胖子的案件感到非常不安，并且大喊大叫——
It understands it on that level, and says--
它在这个层面上理解它，并说——
--no, bad, don't do.
——不，不好，不要这样做。
Lady On Street 1 No, I don't think I could push--
《Lady On Street 1》 不，我想我不能推动——
Instead of having one system that just sort of churns out the answer and bing, we have multiple systems that give different answers.
我们拥有多个给出不同答案的系统，而不是只提供答案和搜索结果的一个系统。
And they duke it out.
他们一决胜负。
And hopefully, out of that competition comes morality.
希望这种竞争能带来道德。
This is not a trivial discovery, that you struggle to find right and wrong depending upon what part of your brain is shouting the loudest.
这不是一个微不足道的发现，你很难根据你大脑的哪个部分喊得最响亮来判断对错。
This is like bleachers morality.
这就像露天看台的道德。
Do you buy this?
你买这个吗？
Robert Krulwich Uh, you know, I just don't know.
罗伯特·克鲁维奇 呃，你知道，我只是不知道。
I've always kind of suspected that a sense of right and wrong is mostly stuff that you get from your mom and your dad and from experience, that it's culturally learned, for the most part.
我一直怀疑是非感主要是从你的父母和经验中获得的东西，它在很大程度上是在文化中习得的。
Josh is kind of a radical in this respect.
乔什在这方面有点激进。
He thinks it's biological, I mean deeply biological.
他认为这是生物学的，我的意思是深刻的生物学。
That somehow we inherit from the deep past a sense of right and wrong that's already in our brains from the get-go, before mom and dad.
不知何故，我们从遥远的过去继承了一种是非观念，这种观念从一开始就在我们的大脑中存在，在父母之前。
Our primate ancestors, before we were full-blown humans, had intensely social lives.
在我们成为成熟的人类之前，我们的灵长类祖先就拥有强烈的社交生活。
And so deep in our brain, we have what you might call basic primate morality.
在我们的大脑深处，我们拥有所谓的基本灵长类道德。
And basic primate morality doesn't understand things like tax evasion.
基本的灵长类道德不理解逃税之类的事情。
But it does understand things like pushing your buddy off of a cliff.
但它确实能够理解诸如将你的好友推下悬崖之类的事情。
Oh, so you're thinking then that the man on the bridge-- that I'm on the bridge next to the large man, and I have hundreds of thousands of years of training in my brain that says, don't murder the large man.
哦，所以你会想，桥上的那个人——我就在桥上那个大个子旁边，我的大脑里有数十万年的训练，告诉我，不要谋杀那个大个子。
Right.
正确的。
Whereas-- Robert Krulwich And even if I'm thinking, if I murder the large man, I'm going save five lives and only kill the one man, that there's something deeper down there that says, don't murder the large man?
然而——罗伯特·克鲁维奇 即使我在想，如果我谋杀了那个大个子，我会拯救五个人的生命，而只杀死一个人，但内心深处有一些东西在说，不要谋杀这个大个子？
Right.
正确的。
In that case, I think it's a pretty easy case.
在这种情况下，我认为这是一个非常简单的情况。
Even though it's five versus one, in that case, people just go with what we might call the inner-chimp.
即使是五对一，在这种情况下，人们也会选择我们所谓的“内心黑猩猩”。
But there are other--
但还有其他的——
Inner-chimp is your unfortunate way of describing an act of deep goodness.
不幸的是，你用“内心黑猩猩”来描述内心善良的行为。
Thou shalt not-- it's the Ten Commandments, for God's-- inner-chimp!
你不应该——这是上帝的十诫——内心的黑猩猩！
Right.
正确的。
Well, what's interesting is that we think of basic human morality as being handed down from on high.
有趣的是，我们认为基本的人类道德是从高处传承下来的。
And it's probably better to say that it was handed up from below.
或许更准确地说，是从下面递上来的。
Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich of Radiolab.
Radiolab 的贾德·阿布姆拉德 (Jad Abumrad) 和罗伯特·克鲁维奇 (Robert Krulwich)。
That was produced by Jad and Ellen Horne.
这是由贾德·霍恩和艾伦·霍恩制作的。
Go to their website.
访问他们的网站。
Download their shows for free.
免费下载他们的节目。
You will not be disappointed.
你不会失望的。
radiolab.org.
radiolab.org。
Act Two, Rescue You, Rescue Me.
第二幕，救救你，救救我。
Well, now we move from saving strangers from an onrushing train to saving strangers by taking a new job.
好吧，现在我们从从呼啸而来的火车上拯救陌生人转变为通过接受新工作来拯救陌生人。
There are these jobs that are up for grabs.
有这些工作可供争夺。
And they're all about helping people.
他们都是为了帮助人们。
But the catch is-- and there is a catch-- they all come with what the official job descriptions call danger pay.
但问题是——而且有一个问题——他们都附带官方职位描述中所谓的危险津贴。
Before your first day, you're trained on how to handle a gun, how to do evasive driving, including busting through roadblocks.
在第一天上班之前，您将接受如何使用枪支、如何躲避驾驶（包括冲破路障）的培训。
These are US government jobs, civilian jobs, doing reconstruction in Iraq.
这些是美国政府工作、平民工作、在伊拉克进行重建工作。
And the state department is having so much trouble filling these positions that in February, the head of the agency, Condoleezza Rice, told Congress that it was too hard.
美国国务院在填补这些职位上遇到了很多困难，以至于该机构负责人康多莉扎·赖斯 (Condoleezza Rice) 在二月份告诉国会，这太难了。
She was going to have to get Army Reservists to do 40% of the open jobs, 129 positions.
她必须让陆军预备役军人承担 40% 的空缺职位，即 129 个职位。
And when a 51-year-old father of three, Randy Frescoln, signed up for one of these civilian jobs, his wife did a very simple moral calculation.
当 51 岁的三个孩子的父亲兰迪·弗雷斯科恩 (Randy Frescoln) 报名参加其中一项民事工作时，他的妻子做了一个非常简单的道德计算。
Keep in mind, I'm a volunteer.
请记住，我是一名志愿者。
I was not a soldier.
我不是一名士兵。
And I did not have to go.
我不必去。
I was a pure volunteer.
我是一名纯粹的志愿者。
And I asked my wife.
我问我的妻子。
She said she could not understand why someone would volunteer to go to a war zone, put their life in risk to help people we don't really care about.
她说她无法理解为什么有人会自愿去战区，冒着生命危险去帮助那些我们并不真正关心的人。
And that's harsh, but this is what she's saying.
这很严厉，但这就是她所说的。
Well, let me ask you, what's the answer to your wife's question?
好吧，我问你，你妻子的问题的答案是什么？
Why go to Iraq?
为什么要去伊拉克？
I just couldn't stand watching it on TV anymore from the sidelines.
我实在无法忍受再在场边观看电视节目了。
I come from my father, mother, brother, uncle, we're all Marines.
我来自我的父亲、母亲、兄弟、叔叔，我们都是海军陆战队员。
And you think to yourself, is there something that I could contribute in a positive way?
你会想，我能以积极的方式做出一些贡献吗？
Now, if this sounds old-fashioned or grand, I should tell you that Randy Frescoln is more qualified to contribute in a positive way to the reconstruction of Iraq than most of us.
现在，如果这听起来有些过时或宏大，我应该告诉你，兰迪·弗雷斯科恩比我们大多数人更有资格为伊拉克的重建做出积极的贡献。
In 2004, he did that same job in Afghanistan, setting up orchards and bridges and water systems and vocational training and all kinds of other stuff.
2004年，他在阿富汗做了同样的工作，建立果园、桥梁、供水系统、职业培训和各种其他东西。
Which actually is not too different from the job he does here in the States.
这实际上与他在美国所做的工作没有太大不同。
He works for the US Department of Agriculture in Iowa, where he has set up hundreds of projects to help communities and businesses all over the state.
他在爱荷华州的美国农业部工作，在那里他设立了数百个项目来帮助全州的社区和企业。
He's the kind of guy who loves driving down the highway and spotting a biodiesel plant or wind turbines that he helped fund.
他是那种喜欢沿着高速公路行驶并发现他帮助资助的生物柴油厂或风力涡轮机的人。
But what happened to him in Iraq changed him, made him rethink what it means to help people, to serve your country, to do good.
但在伊拉克发生的事情改变了他，让他重新思考帮助人民、为国家服务、行善意味着什么。
He got there in December, 2006, lived on an army base in the Sunni triangle.
他于 2006 年 12 月到达那里，住在逊尼派三角区的一个军事基地。
And it was so violent that any time he left the base to meet with Iraqis, he had a full military escort and was told that convoys carrying his co-workers had been hit eight times.
事情是如此暴力，以至于每次他离开基地与伊拉克人会面时，他都会有全套军事护送，并被告知载着他的同事的车队遭到了八次袭击。
But the biggest difference from his experience in Afghanistan was the people.
但与他在阿富汗的经历最大的不同在于那里的人。
Any Iraqis who talked to him risked being seen as collaborators and killed.
任何与他交谈的伊拉克人都有可能被视为通敌并被杀害。
So he didn't get close to anybody.
所以他没有和任何人走得太近。
After one meeting with local agricultural leaders, Randy's translator took him aside and told him that the Iraqis had been saying to each other, during the meeting in Arabic, just tell the Americans whatever they want to hear.
在一次与当地农业领导人会面后，兰迪的翻译把他拉到一边，告诉他，伊拉克人在会议期间一直用阿拉伯语互相交谈，想听什么就告诉美国人吧。
Nobody seemed to see him as anything but somebody to be appeased, or somebody to demand things from, a nuisance, or the enemy.
似乎没有人把他看成是一个需要安抚的人，或者一个向他索取东西的人，一个讨厌鬼，或者一个敌人。
Is there some that you thought would kill you if they had the opportunity?
有没有一些你认为如果有机会就会杀掉你的人？
Yeah.
是的。
I had never encountered-- what you could say the word-- hatred than I got from some of those folks over there.
我从来没有遇到过——你可以用这个词来形容——比我从那里的一些人那里得到的仇恨。
It was the worst feeling in my life.
这是我一生中最糟糕的感觉。
You go, what a dumbass I am for jeopardizing my career, my family, to come all the way over here for this.
你去吧，我真是个傻瓜，竟然冒着事业和家庭的危险，千里迢迢来到这里。
How dumb are you?
你有多蠢？
Tell me about a time when you felt that.
告诉我你有过这种感觉的一次经历。
Tell me about a time when that actually happened to you.
告诉我一个你真实经历过的经历。
Who were you talking to?
你在跟谁说话？
Probably the University, because I had very high expectations for the University.
可能是大学，因为我对大学抱有很高的期望。
You would think they're good people doing good things.
你会认为他们是做好事的好人。
Well, when I get there, they brought in two professors who got their PhDs in America.
嗯，当我到达那里时，他们引进了两位在美国获得博士学位的教授。
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Randy Frescoln And one of them had worked for USDA for three years in Wyoming.
兰迪·弗雷斯科恩 (Randy Frescoln) 其中一位曾在怀俄明州为美国农业部工作了三年。
So you just felt like, OK, that's it.
所以你只是觉得，好吧，就这样了。
I'm set.
我已经准备好了。
We're good.
我们很好。
Yeah, I looked at him and I said, you know exactly what I'm here for, what we're trying to do.
是的，我看着他说，你很清楚我来这里的目的，我们想要做什么。
And they said, yes.
他们说，是的。
And then we carried on our dialogue.
然后我们继续对话。
And I kept looking at him.
我一直看着他。
And I finally said, I see something in your eyes.
最后我说，我在你的眼里看到了一些东西。
What is it that I don't know that you need to tell me.
有什么事我不知道你需要告诉我。
And I had to ask him that multiple times.
我不得不多次问他这个问题。
And finally, they said, you need to understand.
最后，他们说，你需要理解。
He's in charge.
他负责。
And he was their boss.
他是他们的老板。
It started to dawn on Randy that even here, even in the University, with these two Iraqis who actually seemed to understand him, even here he was not going to get anywhere.
兰迪开始意识到，即使在这里，即使在大学，有这两个似乎真正理解他的伊拉克人，即使在这里，他也不会取得任何进展。
Instead of the normal things that farmers might need in a poor or economically-ravaged country, their boss asked for high-tech equipment.
他们的老板要求的是高科技设备，而不是贫穷或经济遭受重创的国家农民可能需要的正常物品。
If you're trying to build capacity, if you don't have anything, the last thing you're going to ask for is advanced technology like that, right?
如果你想增强能力，如果你什么都没有，那么你最不需要的就是这样的先进技术，对吗？
Why would you want that?
你为什么想要那个？
So it could be sold for cash.
所以可以卖掉换现金。
Despite all this, Randy was able to accomplish a couple things.
尽管如此，兰迪还是完成了一些事情。
He set up a model program that got Iraqi farmers and tribal Sheiks and the University and the government working together for the first time.
他制定了一个示范项目，首次让伊拉克农民、部落酋长、大学和政府合作。
But he and other people in these civilian jobs in Iraq wonder sometimes, is that level of success worth it?
但他和其他在伊拉克从事民事工作的人有时会想，这种程度的成功值得吗？
Randy and other civilians are sent through Iraq on what are officially called PRTs, Provincial Reconstruction Teams.
兰迪和其他平民被派往伊拉克，参加官方称为 PRT（省级重建队）的部队。
These were established two and a half years after the US invasion, with the idea that they were going to create small economic development projects.
这些是在美国入侵两年半后成立的，其想法是创建小型经济发展项目。
And also they were going to train local governments around Iraq to do the things that local governments do in a democracy: devise budgets, hold meetings in front of the public, set up courthouses with local judges.
他们还将培训伊拉克各地的地方政府去做民主国家中地方政府所做的事情：制定预算、在公众面前举行会议、与当地法官一起建立法院。
But from the start, the PRTs have been plagued by a lack of planning, qualified people, money.
但从一开始，PRT 就一直受到缺乏规划、合格人员和资金的困扰。
Civilians found themselves in war zones without telephones to do their jobs, or desks.
平民发现自己身处战区，没有电话可以工作，也没有办公桌。
An article in the in-house magazine for State Department employees, the Foreign Service Journal , said, quote, "a common refrain from foreign service members speaking about their experience in new PRTs is that they have felt like pins on a map, sent out so officials in Washington could say they were there.
国务院雇员内部杂志《外交服务杂志》上的一篇文章称，“外国军人在谈论他们在新的临时培训小组中的经历时，通常会避免这样的说法：他们感觉就像地图上的大头针，被发送出去，以便华盛顿的官员可以说他们在那里。
They felt cut off and were given no clear instruction on their role."
他们感到被孤立，并且没有得到关于他们角色的明确指示。”
I was retired at the time.
当时我已经退休了。
And I have to say that I was against the invasion from the very beginning.
我不得不说，我从一开始就反对入侵。
Nevertheless, we did it.
尽管如此，我们还是做到了。
And this is my country.
这是我的国家。
So when a call went out for people with the kind of background I had, I thought it was perhaps a moral obligation to go and see if I could do something useful.
因此，当我向具有我这种背景的人发出电话时，我认为去看看我是否可以做一些有用的事情也许是一种道德义务。
Kiki Munshi is a veteran diplomat who ran the PRT in Diyala province, and is now back in the United States.
Kiki Munshi 是一位资深外交官，曾负责迪亚拉省的 PRT，现已返回美国。
In testimony to Congress this February, she said that in spite of the quote, "quietly heroic work of lots of people, the PRTs cannot succeed.
今年 2 月，她在国会作证时表示，尽管引用了“许多人默默地英勇工作，PRT 无法成功”的说法。
The obstacles are too great."
障碍太大了。”
The biggest problem is the obvious one, the violence.
最大的问题是显而易见的，那就是暴力。
She says you can't create local democracy without the rule of law.
她说，没有法治就无法建立地方民主。
In Diyala province, she was working with the provincial council, which is the local government.
在迪亚拉省，她与省议会（即当地政府）合作。
She was feeling optimistic.
她感觉很乐观。
And then everything really fell apart when a Shiite general was assigned to run the Iraqi army in that particular area.
然后，当一名什叶派将军被指派在该特定地区管理伊拉克军队时，一切都崩溃了。
--who at first seemed like a very good person.
——乍一看似乎是一个非常好的人。
But gradually we began to see warning signs.
但渐渐地我们开始看到警告信号。
He was transferring Sunni officers out, replacing them with Shia.
他正在将逊尼派军官调走，用什叶派取代他们。
And our military compiled a very complete dossier on the fact that he was running death squads against the Sunni, doing mass detentions, torture, a lot of unpleasant things that would not promote intersecterian peace.
我们的军方编制了一份非常完整的档案，说明他对逊尼派派出敢死队，进行大规模拘留、酷刑，以及许多不利于促进教派间和平的令人不快的事情。
And so did that pretty much mean the end of all your projects?
那么这是否意味着你所有项目的结束？
Yes.
是的。
Yes, gradually the provincial council stopped meeting.
是的，渐渐地，省议会不再开会了。
They haven't had a quorum since October.
自十月份以来，他们就没有达到法定人数。
The business then left.
随后商家就离开了。
The ones who could afford it went on to Syria or to Jordan.
有能力的人则前往叙利亚或约旦。
The ones who couldn't have gone to Baghdad.
那些不能去巴格达的人。
The security situation around the PRTs is so tough that an audit by the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction found that only four of 13 PRTs were generally able to carry out their missions, and recommended closing offices in two provinces.
PRT 周围的安全局势非常严峻，伊拉克重建特别监察长的审计发现，13 个 PRT 中只有 4 个总体能够执行任务，并建议关闭两个省的办事处。
Few people are faced with the decision is it worth dying for?
很少有人面临这样的决定：值得为之而死吗？
That's the Iraqi question.
这就是伊拉克问题。
The question of whether PRTs are actually worth anybody's life became a very personal question for Randy Frescoln.
PRT 是否真的值得任何人付出生命的问题成为兰迪·弗雷斯科恩 (Randy Frescoln) 的一个非常私人的问题。
Just three months into his one-year stint in Iraq, he decided to quit.
在伊拉克工作一年后仅三个月，他就决定退出。
I cannot say strongly enough how this shook him up.
我无法强烈地表达这对他的震撼。
You know what?
你知道吗？
Even today, it still bothers me that-- even today, I go, I know I went for the right reasons.
即使在今天，它仍然困扰着我——即使在今天，我去，我知道我去的理由是正确的。
I feel incredibly good, what I accomplished.
我感觉非常好，我所取得的成就。
It still eats at my gut.
它仍然在吃我的肠子。
And talk about how you made that decision.
并谈谈你是如何做出这个决定的。
Well, every three months, they schedule R&Rs.
嗯，他们每三个月安排一次休息和休息。
You're supposed to have rest and relaxation.
你应该休息和放松。
And for me is, when I started working on that, I called home, and I was talking about dates and that sort of thing.
对我来说，当我开始做这件事时，我打电话回家，谈论约会之类的事情。
And my little nine-year-old girl asked me very honestly, very simply, when she found out I was going back, that I was coming home and not staying, she said, why are you going to go back to Iraq?
当我九岁的小女孩发现我要回去时，她非常诚实、非常简单地问我，我要回家而不是留下来，她说，你为什么要回伊拉克？
And for two nights, I couldn't sleep thinking about that.
有两个晚上，我一直在思考这个问题，无法入睡。
And it's a tough question, because it's still going through my mind.
这是一个很难回答的问题，因为它仍然在我的脑海中萦绕。
I'm still going through my mind, trying to come up with answers.
我仍在思考，试图找出答案。
But for me, the cost exceeded the benefit.
但对我来说，成本超过了收益。
And I don't know-- for me, it's not worth dying for the people that I was working with.
我不知道——对我来说，为和我一起工作的人而死是不值得的。
I don't know how else to explain it.
我不知道还能怎么解释。
If I would have died trying to help them, none of them would have cared.
如果我为了帮助他们而死，他们也不会在意。
And the only one that would have bore the price was my family.
唯一能承受这一代价的是我的家人。
He had gone to Iraq saying he wanted to do his part in the war on terror.
他前往伊拉克表示他想在反恐战争中尽自己的一份力量。
And he came back telling his 18-year-old son not to sign up.
他回来后告诉他 18 岁的儿子不要报名。
That's what I told him.
我就是这么告诉他的。
He had both Air Force and a Navy college scholarships that he was working on.
他同时获得了空军和海军学院的奖学金，并且正在攻读该奖学金。
And I said, son, when Paris Hilton can get drafted, and George Bush's daughters get drafted, when everybody can get drafted and serve, and they declare war, then I'll want you in the military.
我说，儿子，当帕丽斯·希尔顿可以应征入伍，乔治·布什的女儿们可以应征入伍时，当每个人都可以应征入伍并服役时，他们宣战，那么我会希望你参军。
And what did your son say?
你儿子说什么了？
Randy Frescoln He listened.
兰迪·弗雷斯科恩 他听着。
Because before I had left for Iraq, anybody who raised an opposition to the war I thought was extremely unpatriotic.
因为在我前往伊拉克之前，我认为任何反对战争的人都是极其不爱国的。
Like I said, I'm about as red, white, and blue of a guy as you could possibly want, and from a military family.
就像我说的，我是一个你可能想要的红、白、蓝三色的人，而且来自军人家庭。
But I guess we need to talk in a rational manner about what's the cost benefits of us getting involved in the world.
但我想我们需要理性地讨论我们参与这个世界的成本效益是什么。
I, as a team leader, and my deputy team leader had to make the decision, was this mission today worth risking not just the lives of our people that work directly for us, but the lives of the soldiers that were going to be sent out in the convoy to protect them?
我，作为队长，和我的副队长必须做出决定，今天的任务是否值得冒着不仅是直接为我们工作的人的生命危险，而且还值得冒着护送车队中派出的士兵的生命危险？
Stephanie Miley was Randy's boss in Iraq.
斯蒂芬妮·麦莉是兰迪在伊拉克的老板。
She set up the PRT in Tikrit.
她在提克里特设立了 PRT。
And she ran it while Randy was there.
当兰迪在场时，她就负责了。
And so it's the second assignment that she volunteered for in Iraq.
这是她在伊拉克志愿执行的第二项任务。
And when she looks at the costs and benefits of having the PRTs, she points to successes.
当她考虑 PRT 的成本和收益时，她指出了成功。
Her PRT got the provincial council to have open meetings with the press there, and budgets that anybody can look up.
她的 PRT 促使省议会与当地媒体举行公开会议，并制定任何人都可以查阅的预算。
They trained policemen to get proper evidence and started planning an economic development zone.
他们培训警察获取适当的证据，并开始规划经济开发区。
I asked her about the things that Randy said made him decide that it wasn't worth it to stay in Iraq-- that it was too hard to do much good for people.
我问她兰迪所说的那些让他决定留在伊拉克不值得的事情——为人们做很多好事太难了。
Maybe it's just too soon to do economic and political development, if any Iraqi who meets with Americans becomes a target for assassination.
如果任何与美国人会面的伊拉克人成为暗杀目标，那么现在进行经济和政治发展可能还为时过早。
Well, we did talk at the time.
嗯，当时我们确实谈过。
And I want to say Randy made some excellent contributions to our work there.
我想说兰迪为我们的工作做出了一些杰出的贡献。
And I think the things that he put in place, we're still seeing progress on that.
我认为他所采取的措施，我们仍然看到了进展。
Not the progress we would like, but progress.
不是我们想要的进步，而是进步。
I think there are a couple things to consider when we're thinking about this.
我认为当我们考虑这个问题时需要考虑一些事情。
Certainly the contractors who work on projects are targeted and killed, the workers intimidated, and things like that.
当然，从事项目工作的承包商会成为目标并被杀害，工人会受到恐吓，诸如此类的事情。
It's a very difficult emotional issue, frankly.
坦率地说，这是一个非常困难的情感问题。
Because when I first arrived in the country, I met the governor of the province, Ala'Adeen.
因为当我第一次到达这个国家时，我遇到了该省的省长阿拉丁。
And he said to me, you know, I want you to meet my wife.
他对我说，你知道，我想让你见见我的妻子。
Because you two are just alike.
因为你们两个很相似。
You're professional women trying to make Iraq better.
你们是职业女性，正在努力让伊拉克变得更好。
And I did have the opportunity to meet his wife several times.
我确实有机会见过他的妻子几次。
She was the head surgeon for the maternity ward at the teaching hospital in Tikrit, a lovely woman.
她是提克里特教学医院产科病房的主任外科医生，是一位可爱的女人。
Governor was very proud of his wife and what she was doing and things like that.
州长为他的妻子和她所做的事情以及类似的事情感到非常自豪。
And I asked her how it was that she had met the governor, because he was a few years older than she.
我问她是怎么认识州长的，因为他比她大几岁。
And she explained that her sister, who was also a physician-- they had gone to school together, lived together, practiced together-- had been kidnapped two years before.
她解释说，她的姐姐也是一名医生——他们一起上学、一起生活、一起行医——两年前被绑架了。
The governor had assisted the family, trying to find out what had happened.
州长协助这家人，试图查明发生了什么事。
They thought it was a ransom issue.
他们认为这是一个赎金问题。
It turned out to be that she'd been kidnapped by terrorists and was executed.
原来她被恐怖分子绑架并被处决。
So that is how she met the governor.
就这样，她认识了州长。
We met, as I said, several times.
正如我所说，我们见过几次面。
And one thing that she really wanted me to do was to work with her on what was going on at the hospital.
她真正希望我做的一件事就是与她一起解决医院正在发生的事情。
And so on July 10, I had the opportunity last year to go to the teaching hospital, meet with her and several others, take a tour, see the facilities, see what their needs were to work on it.
所以去年7月10日，我有机会去教学医院，与她和其他几个人会面，参观一下，看看设施，看看他们的需求是什么。
On July 11, she walked into her clinic and was blown up by an IED.
7月11日，她走进诊所，被简易爆炸装置炸死。
They were waiting for her.
他们正在等她。
It's very difficult to see something like that happen to a person who is the future of Iraq.
很难看到这样的事情发生在一个代表伊拉克未来的人身上。
It's very difficult to see that happen to the governor, who was understandably devastated by the loss of his wife.
很难想象这种事发生在州长身上，他因失去妻子而感到悲痛，这是可以理解的。
And it's very difficult to think that maybe because she was seen as being too close to the US presence there, that she became more of a target.
很难想象，也许因为她被认为离美国在那里的存在太近，她就成为了更多的目标。
It can sometimes be a very difficult position to be in, as Randy was saying, when you realize that the people you're talking to today may not be there tomorrow because they were talking to you today.
正如兰迪所说，当你意识到今天与你交谈的人明天可能不会在场，因为他们今天正在与你交谈，有时这可能是一个非常困难的处境。
Well, here's the thing I really wanted to talk to you about, is I've talked to people who have been at PRTs.
嗯，这就是我真正想和你们谈谈的事情，我和参加过 PRT 的人谈过。
And the conclusion that they've come to is that it's too soon for these to be effective, or they don't feel like they're doing enough good to justify being there themselves.
他们得出的结论是，这些措施现在起效还为时过早，或者他们觉得自己做得不够好，不足以证明自己在那里是合理的。
And it seems like you've come to a different conclusion, that actually it's worth doing the PRTs, and it's worth trying to make this stuff happen now.
看来您得出了不同的结论，实际上值得进行 PRT，并且值得立即尝试让这些事情发生。
And I wonder, why?
我想知道为什么？
Could you talk about that?
你能谈谈这个吗？
Sure.
当然。
I think it's worth doing because it is showing the Iraqi people that we are there with them in partnership.
我认为这是值得做的，因为它向伊拉克人民表明我们与他们合作。
We are not abandoning them.
我们不会抛弃他们。
So it's going to go in fits and starts.
所以事情会时断时续。
Some of these things happen in a strange fashion, where there's a long lag time.
其中一些事情以一种奇怪的方式发生，有很长的滞后时间。
And then suddenly the dam breaks and things move forward.
然后大坝突然决堤，事情继续向前发展。
So it's a difficult thing.
所以这是一件很难的事情。
I do believe that PRTs are the way forward, because I don't see the alternative.
我确实相信 PRT 是前进的方向，因为我看不到其他选择。
We can't have a situation where the US military is the only presence.
我们不能出现只有美军存在的情况。
But you just have to push forward on all of these areas at the same time.
但你只需要同时推动所有这些领域。
In January, President Bush proposed doubling the number of PRTs this year.
一月份，布什总统提议将今年的 PRT 数量增加一倍。
And those plans are being put into effect.
这些计划正在付诸实施。
Currently available PRT jobs in Iraq are listed at federalgovernmentjobs.us among other sites.
伊拉克目前可用的 PRT 职位已在 federationgovernjobs.us 等网站上列出。
Coming up, strangers in the night exchanging glances-- will one of them murder the other?
即将到来，夜色中的陌生人互相交换眼神——他们中的一个会谋杀另一个吗？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
[MUSIC - "SKAVAVARS" BY BENNI HEMM HEMM]
[音乐 - BENNI HEMM HEMM 的“SKAVAVARS”]
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
This week on our show, Who Can You Save?
本周我们的节目《你能拯救谁？》
And we've arrived at act three of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, The Murderer.
第三幕，凶手。
Well, so far, we've heard today about people deciding whether they would save babies, whether they would save people from a train, whether they would save Iraq.
嗯，到目前为止，我们今天听到人们决定是否要拯救婴儿，是否要拯救火车上的人，是否要拯救伊拉克。
Brady Udall has this story about people facing a few other decisions like this.
布雷迪·尤德尔（Brady Udall）有一个关于人们面临类似这样的决定的故事。
The deepest hours of a wintry Iowa night, and it sounded like somebody was knocking on our sliding glass door.
爱荷华州冬夜最深的时刻，听起来好像有人在敲我们的滑动玻璃门。
I had been typing on the computer down in our basement, and I told myself that the sound had to be a raccoon or a stray dog sniffing around on the deck.
我一直在地下室的电脑上打字，我告诉自己这声音一定是浣熊或流浪狗在甲板上嗅来嗅去。
Or maybe it was my wife, who was supposed to be sleeping in the bedroom with our newborn son, up to get a glass of water.
或者也许是我的妻子，她本来应该和我们刚出生的儿子一起睡在卧室里，去拿一杯水。
But then it came again, the hollow sound of a knuckle rapping on glass.
但随后又传来了指关节敲击玻璃的空洞声音。
Had we still lived in town, a visitor dropping by at 3:00 AM wouldn't have been such a surprise.
如果我们还住在城里，凌晨 3:00 来访的访客就不会那么令人惊讶了。
In Iowa City, it wasn't all that uncommon to have a half-drunk sorority girl pop in to ask if we had any spare condoms, of for one of my fellow graduate students to come by to recite his latest confessional poem, usually titled something like "Why I Bleed." But six months ago, we had said goodbye to the cosmopolitan nightlife of Iowa City and moved out to this remote cabin on the banks of the Iowa River in an effort to simplify our lives, to get closer to the natural world, and most importantly, to discourage people from dropping by to read their poetry to us.
在爱荷华市，一个喝得半醉的联谊会女孩闯进来询问我们是否有备用避孕套，或者我的一位研究生同学过来背诵他最新的忏悔诗，通常标题为“为什么我流血”之类的东西，这种情况并不少见。但六个月前，我们告别了爱荷华市的国际化夜生活，搬到了爱荷华河畔的这个偏僻的小屋，试图简化我们的生活，更接近自然世界，最重要的是，阻止人们过来给我们朗读诗歌。
Our nearest neighbor was a quarter of a mile away on the opposite side of the river.
我们最近的邻居在四分之一英里外的河对岸。
I walked up the stairs, comforting myself with the idea that homicidal maniacs aren't generally known for having the courtesy to knock before entering the houses of their victims.
我走上楼梯，安慰自己，杀人狂通常不会在进入受害者的房子之前礼貌地敲门。
I got to the top and saw who was waiting outside.
我到达山顶，看到谁在外面等着。
On the other side of the glass was a man who bore a strong resemblance to the murderer I had been imagining.
玻璃的另一边是一个男人，他和我想象中的凶手非常相似。
Six foot four, greasy black hair, a misaligned face pocked with acne scars.
身高六英尺四英寸，油腻的黑发，歪歪扭扭的脸上满是痤疮疤痕。
I could tell right away that this was not a person who had been blessed with a happy childhood.
我立刻就看出这不是一个有幸福童年的人。
His clothes: long overcoat, combat boots, Judas Priest concert t-shirt were crusted with mud.
他的衣服：长外套、军靴、犹大牧师音乐会 T 恤都沾满了泥。
And it appeared that he had spent the entire evening digging graves and now only needed the bodies to fill them with.
而且看来他挖了一个晚上的坟墓，现在只需要尸体来填埋就可以了。
We looked at each other for a good long time, this man and I.
这个人和我，我们对视了很长时间。
Because I had been laboring all night in the freezing basement, I happened to be wearing my wife's magenta flannel-lined jogging outfit, metallic running shoes, and a novelty ski hat that looked like something you might find on the head of an elf.
因为我在冰冷的地下室里工作了一整夜，所以我碰巧穿着妻子的洋红色法兰绒衬里慢跑服、金属跑鞋和一顶新奇的滑雪帽，看起来像是小精灵头上的帽子。
We were both, it was clear, deeply troubled by the sight of each other.
很明显，我们俩都因彼此的目光而深感不安。
It's difficult to explain why I didn't do something sensible, like go for the knife drawer, or barricade myself in the bedroom and call 911.
很难解释为什么我没有做一些明智的事情，比如去拿刀抽屉，或者把自己关在卧室里然后拨打 911。
I believe it had to do with my weakened state at the time.
我相信这与我当时的虚弱状态有关。
I was in what my mother would have generously called "a funk." There had been complications with the birth of our son, which our meager insurance had failed to cover, and we were now sunk in debt.
我当时正处于一种被我母亲慷慨地称为“恐惧”的状态。我们儿子的出生出现了一些并发症，我们微薄的保险无法支付这些费用，现在我们负债累累。
I was spent, sorry for myself, and apparently didn't have the energy or the guts to defend my home and family.
我精疲力尽，为自己感到难过，显然没有精力或勇气来保卫我的家和家人。
So when the murderer knocked again on the glass, I slid the door open, and like somebody manning the drive-thru at Wendy's asked, "may I help you?"
因此，当凶手再次敲击玻璃时，我把门推开，就像温迪汽车餐厅的服务员问的那样：“我可以帮你吗？”
The first thing he said to me was, "man, take a look at my hand." He held up his hand and I could see that his knuckles were shredded and bleeding.
他对我说的第一句话是：“伙计，看看我的手。”他举起手，我可以看到他的指关节被撕碎了，还在流血。
It looked like he'd tried to cram his fist into a blender.
看起来他试图将拳头塞进搅拌机里。
"I ran my car off the road," he said.
“我把车开出了公路，”他说。
"And I got so mad, I punched a tree, which I now regret."
“我非常生气，用拳头打了一棵树，现在我很后悔。”
I had no response to that, so I did the only thing I could think of, which was to invite him in.
我对此没有任何反应，所以我唯一能想到的就是邀请他进来。
"Oh, I wouldn't want to track mud on your carpet," said the murderer.
“哦，我不想在你的地毯上留下泥土，”凶手说。
He explained that his car was stuck, and he needed some help getting it out.
他解释说他的车被困住了，他需要一些帮助才能把车开出来。
He made it clear that he wanted to do this without the cops or any other public authorities getting involved, and wondered if I could give him a hand.
他明确表示，他希望在没有警察或任何其他公共当局参与的情况下做到这一点，并想知道我是否可以帮助他。
"Man," he said, "I'm partying with this guy Peanut.
“伙计，”他说，“我正在和花生这个家伙一起聚会。
Maybe you've heard of him.
也许你听说过他。
And then I'm driving home, minding my own [BLEEP] business, and the next thing I know, my car is sunk up to the axles in a dry lakebed.
然后我开车回家，专注于我自己的[BLEEP]生意，接下来我知道的是，我的车整个车轴都沉入干涸的湖床上了。
What the [BLEEP], right?
什么是[BLEEP]，对吧？
It's on the other side of those trees there.
它就在那些树的另一边。
Not far at all.
一点也不远。
I'll do all the pushing.
我会做所有的推动。
All you've got to do is work the controls."
你所要做的就是操作控制装置。”
I told him I would get my coat and shoes and be right with him.
我告诉他我会去拿外套和鞋子并和他在一起。
I slipped into the bathroom, suddenly weak with relief.
我溜进浴室，突然松了口气，浑身无力。
I felt I had been spared, at least for the moment, and it felt very, very good.
我觉得自己幸免于难，至少暂时如此，这种感觉非常非常好。
But this guy's story about his car being stuck in a lakebed seemed suspicious.
但这个人关于他的车被困在湖床上的故事似乎很可疑。
Surely it was a ruse to lure me into the woods so he and his friend Peanut could take care of me with the least amount of fuss, and then later return to plunder my house and butcher my family.
这肯定是一个诡计，目的是引诱我进入树林，这样他和他的朋友花生就可以轻松地照顾我，然后再回来掠夺我的房子并屠杀我的家人。
My survival instincts, which had been in remission for a few months now, began to stir.
我的生存本能已经缓和了几个月，现在开始苏醒。
I decided I needed something to defend myself with.
我决定我需要一些东西来保护自己。
There were the knives in the kitchen, but they were in plain view of the deck.
厨房里有刀，但它们在甲板上一览无余。
And my chainsaw, which I used as a makeshift weed whacker to keep the thistles down around the house, was out in the shed.
我的电锯就放在棚子里，我用它作为临时除草机，用来清除房子周围的蓟。
For some time, I considered the plunger next to the toilet.
一段时间以来，我一直在考虑马桶旁边的柱塞。
I ransacked the bathroom.
我翻遍了浴室。
And in a cabinet under the sink, I found a hammer my wife had once used to build bird houses.
在水槽下面的柜子里，我发现了一把我妻子曾经用来建造鸟屋的锤子。
It was tiny, almost a toy, and I don't think you could've broken open a soft-boiled egg with that hammer.
它很小，几乎是一个玩具，我认为你不可能用那把锤子敲开一个半熟的鸡蛋。
But unlike the plunger, I could hide it safely in the band of my wife's jogging pants.
但与柱塞不同的是，我可以将它安全地藏在我妻子的慢跑裤的带子里。
And in the event that I had to defend myself with it, at least I would be able to leave this world with a small scrap of dignity.
如果我必须用它来保护自己，至少我可以带着一点尊严离开这个世界。
Once I had the hammer tucked safely away, I met the murderer out on the deck.
当我把锤子安全收好后，我在甲板上遇到了凶手。
And without further ado, he led me into the dark forest.
没有多说，他带我走进了黑暗的森林。
I hadn't thought to bring a flashlight.
没想到要带手电筒。
And once we had moved away from the house, it was utterly black.
当我们搬离房子时，屋子里一片漆黑。
I tripped over stumps, and saplings stabbed me in the eyes with their branches.
我被树桩绊倒，树苗的树枝刺伤了我的眼睛。
He made comments like, "just past this gulley, I think," and "not too much longer," and "ow, [BLEEP], what was that," and "oh, [BLEEP] log."
他发表了这样的评论，“我想，刚刚过了这个沟壑”，“不会太久”，“哦，[BLEEP]，那是什么，”和“哦，[BLEEP]日志”。
After a while, I couldn't hear him anymore, and I thought I'd lost him completely.
过了一会儿，我再也听不到他的声音了，我以为我已经彻底失去了他。
But then he was behind me, his boots crunching on the frost-crusted leaves.
但随后他就到了我身后，靴子踩在结满霜壳的树叶上嘎吱作响。
Now that my eyes had adjusted to the darkness, I thought I could see the dark form of Peanut or some other delinquent crouching behind every other thicket or tree.
现在我的眼睛已经适应了黑暗，我想我可以看到花生或其他一些不良少年的黑色身影蹲在其他灌木丛或树后面。
I felt the hair on my arms stand up.
我感觉手臂上的汗毛都竖起来了。
And it came to me with a certainty.
这对我来说是确定无疑的。
This was it.
就是这样。
The ambush was on.
伏击开始了。
I was going to die in these lonely, barren woods, wearing a woman's jogging suit and the hat of an elf.
我将穿着女式慢跑服，戴着精灵帽子，死在这片孤独、贫瘠的树林里。
It was around this time that the hammer slipped out of my waist band and made its way down the leg of my pants.
就在这个时候，锤子从我的腰带上滑了出来，顺着裤腿滑了下来。
In a panic, I hopped on one foot.
我惊慌失措，单脚跳了起来。
And as casually as possible, tried to shake the hammer out of the cuff of my pants so it would fall unnoticed to the side of the path.
我尽可能随意地尝试将锤子从裤脚口抖落，这样它就不会被注意到地掉到路边。
I thought I might have succeeded until I heard the footfalls stop behind me.
我以为我可能已经成功了，直到我听到脚步声在我身后停了下来。
"Dropped your hammer," the murderer said.
“你的锤子掉了，”凶手说道。
"Oh, yes.
“哦，是的。
Thank you," I said, and immediately began swatting at thickets and overhanging branches as if I had brought it along for the purpose of clearing out brush.
谢谢你，”我说，然后立即开始拍打灌木丛和悬垂的树枝，就好像我带着它来清理灌木丛一样。
I hacked at every bramble and dead weed in reach until we emerged from the trees.
我砍掉了所有能触及的荆棘和枯死的杂草，直到我们从树林里出来。
There, not 50 feet in front of us, sat a generously dented duster sunk in the mud of a barren cornfield.
就在我们前面不到 50 英尺的地方，放着一把凹凸不平的掸子，陷在贫瘠玉米地的泥浆里。
The murderer slapped me on the back.
凶手拍了拍我的背。
"God damn," he said.
“该死，”他说。
"You found it."
“你找到了。”
There is not much to say about the fiasco that followed.
对于接下来的惨败，没什么好说的。
We were able to push the car out of one rut only to get it stuck in another.
我们能够将汽车推出一个车辙，却又陷入另一个车辙。
We'd get it moving across the furrows, wheels spinning and mud flying everywhere, our hopes on the rise, only to watch it lose traction and sink slowly back into the muck.
我们让它穿过犁沟，车轮旋转，泥土飞得到处都是，我们的希望在上升，结果却眼睁睁地看着它失去牵引力，慢慢地沉回泥土中。
More than once, my companion tried to give up.
我的同伴不止一次试图放弃。
But I was a constant source of encouragement.
但我一直是鼓励的源泉。
I had all the energy in the world.
我拥有世界上所有的能量。
While he sat up front, pressing wearily on the gas, I labored at the back bumper in a hailstorm of mud.
当他坐在前排，疲倦地踩着油门时，我在泥泞的冰雹中努力工作在后保险杠上。
After nearly an hour, we were both so surprised at having got it up on the gravel road that we nearly let it roll into the ditch on the other side.
近一个小时后，我们都惊讶于它能在碎石路上爬起来，差点让它滚进另一边的沟里。
Wearied and encased entirely in mud, we slumped against the car to get our wind back.
我们疲惫不堪，浑身是泥，倒在车上喘口气。
The murderer heaved and clutched his side.
凶手猛地一动，捂住了身侧。
"Son of a bitch," he said, "I think I activated my hernia again."
“狗娘养的，”他说，“我想我的疝气又被激活了。”
He eventually climbed into his car and in the rubbish pile on the passenger side floor located a pen and scrap of paper.
他最终爬进车里，在乘客侧地板的垃圾堆里找到了一支笔和一张纸。
With great care and concentration, he wrote something on the paper and handed it to me.
他非常认真地在纸上写了一些东西，然后递给了我。
In stylish, looping cursive, it said, "Donny Solomon, 377-2908, Malibu Acres Trailer Park."
它用时尚的循环草书写着：“唐尼·所罗门，377-2908，马里布英亩拖车公园。”
"That's my name and privileged information," he said.
“这是我的名字和特权信息，”他说。
"Very few people have access to it.
“很少有人能够接触到它。
You need something, you just call that number or head over to Malibu Acres and say my name.
如果您需要一些东西，您只需拨打该号码或前往 Malibu Acres 并说出我的名字即可。
They'll know where to find me.
他们会知道在哪里可以找到我。
He stood up and regarded me intently.
他站起来，专注地看着我。
"I mean anything.
“我的意思是任何事情。
I don't care where or what it is, which side of the law it's on.
我不在乎它在哪里或是什么，它属于法律的哪一边。
You've done me a great favor here tonight."
今晚你在这里帮了我一个大忙。”
I took off my elf hat, wiped my forehead, and patted the hood of the duster.
我摘下精灵帽，擦了擦额头，拍了拍掸子的兜帽。
"Just glad I could be of help," I said.
“很高兴我能帮上忙，”我说。
Before he got back in his car, he pulled me in and hooked his arm around my shoulder in a manly half-hug.
在他回到车里之前，他把我拉了进去，用手臂搂住我的肩膀，以一种男子气概的半拥抱的方式。
"Hey," he said in a little voice, "maybe you're queer or whatever.
“嘿，”他小声说道，“也许你是个奇怪的人或者什么的。
But that don't mean nothing to me." He drove off, sliding all over the frosty road, and I trudged home, making sure to lock the door behind me.
但这对我来说并不意味着什么。”他开走了，在结冰的路上滑行，我艰难地回家，确保锁上了身后的门。
This is a story I used to tell all the time.
这是我以前一直讲的一个故事。
I'm partial to it because, unlike most of the stories I tell, it's almost entirely true.
我偏爱它，因为与我讲述的大多数故事不同，它几乎完全真实。
And as stories go, it's a good one.
从故事的发展来看，这是一个好故事。
A dark and stormy night, a stranger at the door, a little comic relief to lighten the mood, and that which brightens every heart, a happy ending.
一个漆黑的暴风雨之夜，一个陌生人出现在门口，一点喜剧的缓解来减轻情绪，一个幸福的结局让每颗心都明亮起来。
Even better, it had provided me with a prop, that mud-smeared scrap of paper with Donny Solomon's name and privileged information.
更好的是，它为我提供了一个道具，那张沾满泥土的纸片，上面写着唐尼·所罗门的名字和特权信息。
After that night in Iowa, I didn't see Donny Solomon for six years, had no communication at all with him.
在爱荷华州的那天晚上之后，我六年没有见到唐尼·所罗门，与他没有任何交流。
But that didn't prevent him from becoming a part of my life.
但这并不妨碍他成为我生活的一部分。
I had told the story so often, invoked his name so many times, that I began to think of him as a friend.
我经常讲述这个故事，多次提到他的名字，以至于我开始把他当作朋友。
There were times during those six years that I came close to calling in the favor he'd promised.
在那六年里，有好几次我差一点就请求他答应我的帮助。
There are so many people in our lives who might benefit from a sound beating at the hands of an ex-con.
在我们的生活中，有很多人可能会从有犯罪前科的人的严厉殴打中受益。
But I kept his phone number folded in my wallet for the day when I truly needed it.
但我把他的电话号码藏在钱包里，以备我真正需要的时候使用。
Just the idea of that slip of paper was a comfort.
光是想到那张纸条就让人感到安慰。
I did not need God or the saints or any other higher power.
我不需要上帝、圣徒或任何其他更高的力量。
I had Donny Solomon.
我有唐尼·所罗门。
And then, in the summer of 2002, I found myself back in Iowa City, and I knew I'd have to look Donny up.
然后，2002 年夏天，我发现自己回到了爱荷华市，我知道我必须去找唐尼。
I wanted him to know me as I was now, a professor, a published author, a person of some note, not that pantywaist of six years ago.
我想让他了解我现在的样子，一名教授，一名出版作家，一个小有名气的人，而不是六年前的那个紧身裤。
Above all else, I wanted more of Donny Solomon.
最重要的是，我想要更多唐尼·所罗门的作品。
I don't know how else to say it.
我不知道还能怎么说。
I wanted another story to tell.
我想讲另一个故事。
I wanted a bigger piece of him than the small one I already owned.
我想要他身上比我已经拥有的小部分更大的部分。
I tried his number several times until a woman answered, late in the afternoon, and explained that Donny didn't live at that address anymore, that he and his wife had moved out of town to someplace called Stilton's Corner.
我试了几次他的电话号码，直到下午晚些时候，一个女人接了电话，并解释说唐尼不再住在那个地址了，他和他的妻子已经搬出城到一个叫斯蒂尔顿角的地方。
I followed the simple directions she had given me and ended up on a dirt road on the far south end of town.
我按照她给我的简单指示，最终来到了城镇最南端的一条土路上。
At a 90 degree turn in the road sat the yellow cinder block house she had promised.
在路的90度转弯处，坐落着她答应的黄色煤渣砖房。
Its paint was peeling away in broad, curling flakes, and blooms of mildew had congregated like shadows along its soffits and eaves.
它的油漆剥落成大片、卷曲的薄片，霉菌像阴影一样聚集在它的拱腹和屋檐上。
It was early summer, and the milkweed pods along the rivers and ditches had opened and sent their cotton blowing, creating drifts along the margins of the road.
时值初夏，河边、沟渠两旁的马利筋豆荚都张开了，吹起了棉花，在路边形成了积雪。
I had to kick through a mound of fluff to climb up the steps to the front door, and was about to knock when a woman pulled up in an old station wagon.
我得踢开一堆绒毛才能爬上前门的台阶，正要敲门，一个女人开着一辆旧旅行车停了下来。
She called out the window, "you the therapist?" I shook my head, and she cursed.
她向窗外喊道：“你是治疗师吗？”我摇摇头，她咒骂道。
She was a bony, narrow-hipped woman in a light blue, two-piece outfit, the kind worn by people who work in hospitals and old folks' homes.
她是个瘦骨嶙峋、臀部狭窄的女人，穿着浅蓝色的两件套衣服，是医院和敬老院工作人员穿的那种衣服。
I introduced myself, explained that I was an old acquaintance of Donny Solomon's.
我自我介绍，并解释说我是唐尼·所罗门的老熟人。
And she told me her name was Tina, and that she was Donny's wife.
她告诉我她的名字叫蒂娜，是唐尼的妻子。
She pushed open the door and hustled me inside.
她推开门，把我推了进去。
I hesitated in the doorway, blinking, everything in the room a dim, massive shadow.
我在门口犹豫着，眨着眼睛，房间里的一切都是昏暗的、巨大的阴影。
A teenage girl rose from a couch.
一个十几岁的女孩从沙发上站起来。
And there was a brief conversation and exchange of money, and the girl ducked past me without a word or glance, as if making an escape.
然后进行了简短的交谈和交换了钱，那个女孩一言不发，也没有看我一眼，从我身边闪过，好像是在逃跑。
A rough, phlegm-edged voice called out, "oh, the door.
一个粗哑、带着痰的声音喊道：“哦，门。”
My god damn eyes."
我该死的眼睛。”
I pulled shut the door and peered into the dim room.
我关上门，凝视着昏暗的房间。
Its most obvious feature was an old hospital bed, occupied by a grizzled, stick figure of a man, sunk to his waist in tangled sheets.
它最明显的特征是一张旧医院病床，上面躺着一个头发花白的简笔画男人，他的腰部裹着缠结的床单。
He had the heels of his hands jammed into his eye sockets, and he was moaning in a thoughtless, almost distracted way.
他双手根部插进眼窝，漫不经心、几乎心不在焉地呻吟着。
Tina moved quickly into the small kitchen, began slapping open cabinets and pulling drawers.
蒂娜迅速走进小厨房，开始打开橱柜并拉抽屉。
"Baby doll," she spoke in the exaggerated tones typically used for small children or the hard of hearing, "somebody here to see you.
“宝贝娃娃，”她用通常用于小孩子或听力障碍者的夸张语气说道，“有人来见你。
Speak up, and try to be nice."
说出来，尽量表现得友善一点。”
Slowly, and with what seemed a great effort, the man lifted his face to look at me.
慢慢地，那个男人似乎付出了很大的努力，抬起脸来看着我。
From this angle, it was impossible not to notice the thin scar that started at his temple, made its way through his stiff, patchy hair, and ended in a curlicue behind his ear.
从这个角度来看，你不可能不注意到那道细细的疤痕，它从他的太阳穴开始，穿过他僵硬、斑驳的头发，最后在耳后的卷发处结束。
He didn't speak, but his large, feverish eyes pulsed with what looked like the desire to communicate something uncommon and meaningful.
他没有说话，但他那双狂热的大眼睛里闪烁着似乎想要传达某种不寻常而有意义的东西的渴望。
I was confused, even a little disoriented in that dark room, heavy with medicinal smells.
在那个充满药味的黑暗房间里，我很困惑，甚至有点迷失方向。
"Is this Donny Solomon's house," I asked the old man.
“这是唐尼·所罗门的房子吗？”我问老人。
"Do you know if he's home?" The man opened his mouth, but couldn't seem to form it around the necessary syllables.
“你知道他在家吗？”男人张了张嘴，但似乎无法说出必要的音节。
On his second try, he said, "you are an [BLEEP] hole."
在第二次尝试时，他说：“你是一个[BLEEP]洞。”
"Donny," scolded Tina, who was now standing in the kitchen entryway.
“唐尼，”蒂娜责骂道，她现在正站在厨房入口处。
"You're going to scare him away." She brought in a shot glass full of at least a dozen pills and a silver can of Coors Light.
“你会把他吓跑的。”她带来了一个小玻璃杯，里面装满了至少一打药丸和一罐银罐库尔斯淡味啤酒。
She sighed.
她叹了口气。
"I guess you didn't know about his accident?
“我猜你不知道他出事的事吧？
I don't think I'd have recognized him either.
我想我也认不出他来。
He's changed that much.
他的变化就是这么大。
Here, baby doll, I've got your pills."
给你，宝贝娃娃，我给你拿了药。”
Nothing in this man's face, in his bony arms, or stiff, colorless hair recalled the oversized presence who'd shown up on my front deck six years before.
这个男人的脸、瘦骨嶙峋的手臂，或者僵硬、无色的头发，都没有让人想起六年前出现在我前甲板上的那个巨大的存在。
Only the large, black widow tattoo on his neck, which now looked more like a nasty skin condition than anything menacing, convinced me that this was the same person.
只有他脖子上巨大的黑寡妇纹身，现在看起来更像是一种令人讨厌的皮肤状况，而不是任何威胁，让我确信这是同一个人。
Tina sang a made-up nursery tune called "Pill Time," and began inserting the pills one by one into Donny's pursed lips.
蒂娜唱了一首自编的儿歌，名叫《药丸时间》，然后开始把药丸一颗一颗塞进唐尼撅起的嘴唇里。
He seemed resigned to this indignity, until she held up the can of beer to his mouth, and he jerked forward, swatting the can out of her hand and scattering the remaining pills onto the bed and carpet.
他似乎已经接受了这种侮辱，直到她把一罐啤酒举到他嘴边，他猛地向前，把啤酒罐从她手中夺走，把剩下的药丸撒在床上和地毯上。
"My drink," he shouted, his voice thin with an infantile petulance.
“我的酒，”他喊道，声音微弱，带着婴儿般的暴躁。
"My special drink!"
“我的特饮！”
"God damn you, Donny." Tina stood up, tensing her shoulders in a way that suggested she might strike him.
“该死的，唐尼。”蒂娜站起来，肩膀绷紧，一副要打他的样子。
Instead she held out her shirt, which was covered with flecks of beer foam.
相反，她伸出了衬衫，衬衫上沾满了啤酒泡沫。
"Look at this," she cried, "I don't know how I stand it." She gave me a pained, apologetic look, holding out her wet hands.
“看看这个，”她哭道，“我不知道我该如何忍受。”她伸出湿漉漉的双手，用痛苦而抱歉的表情看着我。
She told me that the only way Donny would take his pills these days was with his special drink, which they happened to be out of.
她告诉我，唐尼现在吃药的唯一方法是用他的特殊饮料，而他们碰巧没有这种饮料。
She wondered if I wouldn't mind sitting with him while she ran down to the liquor store.
她想知道当她跑到酒品店时我是否介意坐在他身边。
"You two can catch up," she suggested, "talk about boy things."
“你们两个可以聊聊，”她建议，“谈谈男孩的事情。”
On her way out the door, she let me know that Donny was subject to severe epileptic seizures, which is why he couldn't be left alone.
在出门的路上，她告诉我唐尼患有严重的癫痫发作，这就是为什么不能让他一个人呆着。
"If something like that happens, go ahead and call 911.
“如果发生类似的事情，请拨打 911。
They'll tell you what to do." I made no move to stop her, only sat dumbly on the couch watching Donny, who spent most of his time trying to untangle his legs from the bedding.
他们会告诉你该怎么做。”我没有阻止她，只是呆呆地坐在沙发上看着唐尼，他大部分时间都在试图从床上把腿解开。
"Can't figure this blanket out," he kept saying.
“无法弄清楚这条毯子，”他不断地说。
He didn't seem much interested in me.
他似乎对我不太感兴趣。
And even though I knew it was pointless, I sat on the edge of his bed and asked him if he remembered how we'd first met, how he'd shown up at my door in the middle of the night.
尽管我知道这毫无意义，我还是坐在他的床边，问他是否记得我们第一次见面，以及他是如何在半夜出现在我家门口的。
It didn't seem he was listening until I mentioned how drunk he must have been to get his car stuck so far off the main road.
他似乎没有在听，直到我提到他一定喝醉了，才把车困在离主干道这么远的地方。
"I was not drunk," he spat, his voice dark with sudden menace.
“我没有喝醉，”他吐了口口水，声音阴沉，充满了突然的威胁。
He pointed a wavering finger at me and told me that if I made such a claim again, he would not hesitate to break my neck.
他用颤抖的手指指着我，告诉我，如果我再提出这样的主张，他会毫不犹豫地扭断我的脖子。
I abandoned the bed for the couch on the other side of the room.
我放弃了床，换上了房间另一边的沙发。
Even though he was about as harmless as a human being could be, I took him at his word.
尽管他几乎是一个无害的人，但我还是相信了他的话。
Right away, he got fidgety, his shoulders slumping with remorse.
他顿时心神不宁，双肩因悔恨而耷拉下来。
And he asked me to come back and talk to him some more.
他让我回来和他再聊聊。
"Be nice, man," he said, "and I'll be nice too."
“对我好一点，伙计，”他说，“我也会对我好一点。”
We didn't have much to say to each other after that.
之后我们彼此就没有太多话要说。
The late afternoon sun had sunk below the tree line, and a dusty light angled through the lowered blinds.
午后的阳光已经落到了林木线以下，一缕尘土飞扬的光线透过垂下的百叶窗射进来。
Just when I was beginning to consider the idea that Tina had run off for good, leaving me to take over as Donny's sole guardian and caretaker, her old car rattled up the drive.
就在我开始考虑蒂娜已经永远逃跑、让我接任唐尼唯一的监护人和看护人的想法时，她的旧车在车道上嘎嘎作响。
Somewhere between here and the liquor store, she'd put on a flowery, rayon blouse and skirt and enough musky perfume to alert us of her presence before she came through the door, clutching two paper bags full of clinking bottles.
在这里和酒品商店之间的某个地方，她会穿上一件花朵图案的人造丝衬衫和裙子，并喷上足够的麝香香水，以提醒我们她的存在，然后她走进门，手里拿着两个纸袋，里面装满了叮当作响的瓶子。
She called me back to the kitchen and asked me if I wanted to stay for dinner.
她把我叫回厨房，问我是否想留下来吃晚饭。
"I got some fried chicken here, and I thought we'd do a macaroni salad," she said.
“我这里有一些炸鸡，我想我们可以做一份通心粉沙拉，”她说。
I claimed that I wasn't hungry, but she waved me off.
我声称我不饿，但她挥手让我离开。
"We'll get us some drinks and then we'll have dinner.
“我们先去喝点饮料，然后再吃晚饭。
You can stay the night if you want.
如果你愿意的话可以过夜。
Donny won't mind.
唐尼不会介意的。
We don't get a lot of company here since his accident."
自从他出事后，我们这里就没有多少人陪伴了。”
While I was trying to sort out what she meant by "stay the night," she got some water boiling for the pasta and told me the story of Donny's accident.
当我试图弄清楚她所说的“过夜”是什么意思时，她煮了一些煮意大利面的水，并向我讲述了唐尼事故的故事。
It was the sort of absurdly tragic tale that fills you with guilty euphoria for having been spared the obscenities and injustices of this existence.
这是一种荒谬的悲剧故事，让你因幸免于这种存在的淫秽和不公正而充满罪恶感。
About a year and a half ago, she explained, Donny had come out of one of his stints at the county lockup a changed man.
她解释说，大约一年半前，唐尼在县看守所服完刑后，整个人都变了。
He had been touched by God while in jail, and God had told him to change his ways.
他在监狱里被神感动了，神叫他要改变自己的行为。
He joined AA, quit selling and smoking pot, said farewell to his many low-life friends.
他加入了AA，戒掉了卖大麻和吸大麻的习惯，告别了众多下层朋友。
He cut his hair and got a job at the concrete plant.
他剪了头发并在混凝土厂找到了一份工作。
He decided he had a purpose in life, which was to reconnect to his daughter, April, a teenager who he had not seen since she was in kindergarten, having lost custody of her after the divorce with his first wife.
他决定自己的人生有一个目标，那就是与他的女儿阿普丽尔重新建立联系。阿普丽尔是一个十几岁的女孩，自从她与第一任妻子离婚后，他失去了她的监护权，自从她上幼儿园以来，他就再也没有见过她。
After he'd proven his honorable intentions, Donny was allowed a few brief visits with April, a movie, a trip to the mall, and finally a full day of Christian fellowship at Silverwood Lake with the New Life Missionary Baptist Church.
在证明了他的崇高意图后，唐尼被允许与阿普丽尔进行几次短暂的会面，看电影，逛商场，最后在银木湖与新生命传教浸信会教堂进行一整天的基督徒团契。
Donny was so nervous about being with his daughter all day around Godly, upright people that he didn't sleep the entire night before.
唐尼整天和女儿在一起，身边都是敬虔、正直的人，他感到非常紧张，以至于他前一天晚上都没有睡觉。
So nervous that, as some of those Godly, upright people later claimed, he had gone back to his car throughout the day to take snorts off a hidden bottle of whiskey.
正如一些虔诚正直的人后来声称的那样，他非常紧张，一整天都回到自己的车里，吸掉一瓶隐藏的威士忌。
Daddy and daughter drove home that night after a long day of weenie roasts and sack races and hymns sung by the fire.
经过一整天的烧烤、麻袋比赛和在火边唱赞美诗后，爸爸和女儿那天晚上开车回家。
And Donny, drunk, exhausted, or some combination of the two, allowed the car to drift off the road and into a deep ravine, where it rolled, ejecting both of them into a stand of pines.
唐尼喝醉了，筋疲力尽，或者两者兼而有之，他让汽车偏离了道路，进入了一个深深的峡谷，在那里滚动，把他们俩都甩到了一片松树上。
The wreck was not discovered until the next morning.
直到第二天早上，残骸才被发现。
April died sometime during the night.
艾普丽尔在夜间的某个时候去世了。
And her father, despite shattered legs and pelvis, a broken back, ruptured liver, and irreversible brain damage, survived.
而她的父亲，尽管双腿和骨盆骨折，背部骨折，肝脏破裂，脑部受到不可逆转的损伤，但还是活了下来。
"And that's where we are now," Tina said, giving me a wide, bright-eyed look of forced cheerfulness.
“这就是我们现在的情况，”蒂娜说，用一双明亮的大眼睛看着我，脸上流露出强迫性的快乐。
"Donny out there with the mind of a 12-year-old and the ex-wife suing us for the clothes on our backs." She cackled and shook her head.
“唐尼带着一个 12 岁孩子和前妻的心态，起诉我们要求穿我们背上的衣服。”她咯咯笑着摇了摇头。
"How [BLEEP] delightful." She took three jelly jars out of the freezer, poured a shot of vodka into each one, and filled them the rest of the way with cheap champagne.
“多么令人愉快啊。”她从冰箱里拿出三个果冻罐，在每个果冻罐里倒了一杯伏特加，然后用便宜的香槟装满了剩下的部分。
I accepted the drink and took a sip of it.
我接过酒，喝了一口。
I had never been much of a drinker, but this seemed like a reasonable time to start.
我从来都不太喝酒，但这似乎是一个开始喝酒的合理时机。
We repaired to the front room, where Tina made a big production out of feeding Donny his remaining pills.
我们回到了前室，蒂娜在那里给唐尼喂了剩下的药，做出了很大的贡献。
And he gulped his drink like it was Gatorade.
他像喝佳得乐一样喝了一口饮料。
It didn't take him long to drink himself into a stupor.
没过多久，他就喝得昏迷不醒。
And eventually Tina edged over and sat next to me, so close that our hips and knees touched.
最后，蒂娜慢慢地靠过来，坐在我旁边，距离很近，我们的臀部和膝盖都碰在一起了。
A second later, her perfume settled on us like a fog bank.
一秒钟后，她的香水味像雾堤一样落在我们身上。
I pretended to sip my drink, and she watched me, turning slowly to show me her cleavage.
我假装喝了一口酒，她看着我，慢慢地转过身来向我展示她的乳沟。
"Now how did you and Donny meet," she said.
“现在你和唐尼是怎么认识的，”她说。
"I never really got that part."
“我从来没有真正得到那个部分。”
I started to tell her the story.
我开始给她讲故事。
I thought it might distract her from the life she had found herself in, make her laugh a little, maybe convince her to move her knee away from mine.
我想这可能会分散她对自己所处生活的注意力，让她开怀大笑，也许说服她把膝盖从我的膝盖上移开。
But I couldn't go through with it.
但我无法完成它。
The words crumbled in my mouth, and I made up a lie about how Donny and I used to hang out at a bar downtown.
这些话在我嘴里崩溃了，我编造了一个谎言，说我和唐尼过去常常在市中心的一家酒吧闲逛。
I pulled out my wallet and produced the slip of paper with Donny's information, and when she saw it, her eyes went damp.
我掏出钱包，拿出一张写有唐尼信息的纸条，当她看到它时，她的眼睛湿润了。
"He was proud of his penmanship," she said, putting her hand on my shoulder.
“他对自己的书法感到自豪，”她把手放在我的肩膀上说道。
"He wrote like a [BLEEP] girl."
“他写得像个[BLEEP]女孩。”
Donny had been watching us closely the entire time.
唐尼一直在密切注视着我们。
He shifted a little, made a noise in the back of his throat, "Teeny, come back," he called out weakly, barely moving his lips.
他移动了一点，从喉咙深处发出一声声音，“蒂尼，回来。”他微弱地喊道，嘴唇几乎没有动。
"Come back over here." "Oh, baby doll," she said, and crawled onto the bed and cooed over and petted him, nuzzled his neck and kissed his stubbly head.
“回到这里吧。” “哦，宝贝娃娃，”她说，爬到床上，咕咕叫地抚摸他，用鼻子蹭他的脖子，亲吻他满是胡茬的头。
I sat on the couch, took a few more fake sips of my drink, and decided that I couldn't stand watching them, couldn't be a part of this anymore.
我坐在沙发上，又假装喝了几口饮料，然后决定我无法忍受看着他们，不能再参与其中了。
I asked to use the bathroom, and hurried down the narrow hall and locked the door behind me.
我要求使用卫生间，然后匆匆穿过狭窄的走廊，锁上了身后的门。
I sat on the carpeted toilet lid and rehearsed my exit speech.
我坐在铺着地毯的马桶盖上，排练我的退场演讲。
I wanted it to be compassionate and dignified, so I could make my escape cleanly, without ugliness or hurt feelings.
我希望它是富有同情心和尊严的，这样我就可以干净利落地逃脱，而不是丑陋或伤害感情。
It took me another minute to find my nerve.
我又花了一分钟才恢复勇气。
When I came out, I found Tina and Donny dozing against each other, both clutching empty jelly jars.
当我出来时，我发现蒂娜和唐尼正靠在一起打瞌睡，两人都抓着空果冻罐。
I didn't have to think about it.
我不必考虑它。
I went straight for the door, walking with such exquisite care that I felt cushions of air under my feet.
我径直朝门口走去，走路时非常小心，脚下有气垫。
As I passed the bed, Donny opened his eyes to look at me, which stopped me cold.
当我经过床边时，唐尼睁开眼睛看着我，这让我不寒而栗。
And only when he gave me a little nod, the slightest dip of his head, did I reach for the doorknob and slip out into the warm evening.
只有当他向我点了点头，稍微低下头时，我才伸手去拿门把手，溜进了温暖的夜晚。
I hurried across the yard, stepping over the drifts of milkweed fluff.
我快步穿过院子，踩着马利筋的绒毛。
And by the time I made it to the road, I felt a hot stab of shame.
当我上路的时候，我感到一阵羞愧。
Not for sneaking away like some kind of Judas, or for abandoning these people, but for not needing them any longer.
不是因为像某种犹大那样偷偷溜走，或者抛弃这些人，而是因为不再需要他们了。
Donny Solomon was useless to me now, nothing more than a sad, baffled soul.
唐尼·所罗门现在对我来说毫无用处，只不过是一个悲伤、困惑的灵魂。
Just like me.
就像我一样。
Brady Udall in Teasdale, Utah.
布雷迪·尤德尔 (Brady Udall)，犹他州蒂斯代尔。
He's the author of the novel The Miracle Life of Edgar Mint.
他是小说《埃德加·明特的奇迹生活》的作者。
Special thanks today to Steve Keshket and Jennifer Murgey and Emily Voight who co-produced our story about Tim Jaccard.
今天特别感谢 Steve Keshket、Jennifer Murgey 和 Emily Voight 共同制作了我们关于 Tim Jaccard 的故事。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Torey Malatia, who says he has a very good reason for showing up so late to our broadcast today.
[资金来源] 我们的老板 Torey Malatia 对我们的节目进行了 WBEZ 管理监督，他说他今天这么晚才出现在我们的广播中是有充分理由的。
"I'm partying with this guy Peanut.
“我正在和花生这个家伙一起参加派对。
Maybe you've heard of him.
也许你听说过他。
And the next thing I know, my car is sunk up to the axles in a dry lakebed.
接下来我知道，我的车整个车轴都沉入干涸的湖床上了。
What the [BLEEP], right?"
什么[BLEEP]，对吧？”
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。