325: Houses of Ill Repute - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #325 | February 2, 2007 325: Houses of Ill Repute Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 325 集 | 2007 年 2 月 2 日 325：名声不佳之家 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Randall Bell's got a kind of weird job.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 兰德尔·贝尔得到了一份奇怪的工作。
He's an economist who specializes in damaged real estate of all kinds.
他是一位经济学家，专门研究各种受损的房地产。
And in practice what that means is that he is the guy that you call when a house becomes notorious for some reason and you have to figure out, how in the world are you going to sell it?
实际上，这意味着，当一栋房子因某种原因变得臭名昭著时，你会打电话给他，你必须弄清楚，你到底要如何卖掉它？
For instance, he's consulted in some homes where some pretty grisly murders have happened.
例如，他在一些发生过相当可怕的谋杀案的家庭中接受了咨询。
Nicole Brown Simpson, JonBenet Ramsey, the Heaven's Gate home where 39 people committed suicide, and what he says is that it takes a little longer to sell these home.
妮可·布朗·辛普森（Nicole Brown Simpson）、乔恩贝尼特·拉姆齐（JonBenet Ramsey）、天堂之门（Heaven's Gate）的房子有39人自杀，他说卖掉这些房子需要更长的时间。
It takes a year or two.
这需要一两年的时间。
And they sell for a little bit less than they would otherwise.
而且它们的售价比其他情况要低一些。
But really, it's not that much of a discount.
但实际上，折扣并没有那么大。
10%, 15%, 20% discount will do the job.
10%、15%、20% 的折扣就可以了。
You don't have to go really too much beyond that.
除此之外，您不必做太多的事情。
And he says it doesn't take long for the houses to be back at their full real estate value, like nothing ever happened there.
他说，用不了多久，这些房子就会恢复到其全部房地产价值，就像那里什么也没发生过一样。
Typically, it takes three to seven years.
通常需要三到七年的时间。
That is just shockingly fast.
这速度快得惊人。
Randall Bell Well, people move into the house, people see that life goes on.
兰德尔·贝尔 嗯，人们搬进了房子，人们看到生活还在继续。
The property gets changed around, it gets lived in.
房产周围发生了变化，它被居住了。
For example, the Manson property where Sharon Tate was murdered and others, that property sold for full value in about 1989.
例如，莎朗·塔特 (Sharon Tate) 被谋杀的曼森 (Manson) 房产及其他房产，该房产于 1989 年左右以全额价格出售。
What happens to the people who move in?
搬进来的人会怎样？
I would wonder especially if a family had kids growing up in the house that was the murder house.
我特别想知道是否有一个家庭有孩子在凶杀案的房子里长大。
Well, I've dealt with people who do have kids and I would not advise someone to buy one of these houses with little kids.
嗯，我和有孩子的人打过交道，我不会建议有人购买其中一栋有小孩的房子。
I'm familiar with a case that I was consulted on with a really hideous murder up in New Jersey, and very smart people bought the house and they had little kids.
我很熟悉一个案件，我曾就新泽西州发生的一起非常可怕的谋杀案进行过咨询，非常聪明的人买了房子，他们还有小孩。
And, at the school, the kids were teasing them and asking them questions like, is there blood on your pillow when you sleep?
而且，在学校里，孩子们会嘲笑他们，问他们这样的问题：你睡觉时枕头上有血吗？
Birthday parties, or neighborhood get-togethers, the kids would not come inside the house.
生日聚会或邻居聚会，孩子们不会进屋。
The friends would come to the doorstep and the kids would have to come out of their house to play.
朋友们会来到家门口，孩子们则必须走出家门去玩耍。
So they started trying to put the birthday parties in the backyard, and the kids wouldn't even come in the backyard for a birthday party.
所以他们开始尝试把生日聚会放在后院，孩子们甚至不会来后院参加生日聚会。
So it became so problematic that eventually the family moved.
所以问题变得如此严重，最终一家人搬家了。
So while the real estate market might be willing to forget a house's reputation, third graders never will.
因此，虽然房地产市场可能愿意忘记房子的声誉，但三年级学生却永远不会。
I think you nailed it.
我想你已经成功了。
I had an opportunity myself, personally, to buy the Heaven's Gate mansion where the 39 people killed themselves.
我个人有机会购买那座39人自杀的天堂之门豪宅。
And when I suggested it or mentioned it to my wife, she looked at me like I was the village idiot because we have four little kids.
当我向我的妻子建议或提及时，她看着我，就像我是村里的白痴一样，因为我们有四个小孩。
People never forget what happened in most of these houses, he says.
他说，人们永远不会忘记大多数这些房子里发生的事情。
They just get used to it.
他们只是习惯了。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
嗯，来自芝加哥 WBEZ，由国际公共广播电台发行的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, Houses of Ill Repute.
今天我们的节目《名声不佳的房子》。
All of our stories today are about houses with terrible reputations.
我们今天所有的故事都是关于名声不佳的房子的。
And in every one of these stories, in every one of these houses, actually, there's a truly astonishing level of badness that kind of sneaks up on people, and then they just get used to it.
事实上，在每一个故事中，在每一栋房子里，都有一种真正令人震惊的邪恶潜移默化地降临到人们身上，然后他们就习惯了。
You know, they get stuck there and they get used to it and they live with it.
你知道，他们被困在那里，他们习惯了并忍受它。
Our show today in three acts.
我们今天的演出分三幕。
Act One, It's not a Crack House, It's a Crack Home, in which we see what happens when bad houses happen to good people.
第一幕，这不是一个破房子，这是一个破房子，在其中我们看到了当坏房子发生在好人身上时会发生什么。
Act Two, The Crisco Kid.
第二幕，克里斯科小子。
I bet Act Two is one of these stories which has an actual moral.
我敢打赌第二幕就是这些具有实际寓意的故事之一。
There's an actual moral to the story.
这个故事有一个实际的寓意。
And it's kind of a simple moral, and I don't think I'm going to spoil anything here by telling you what the moral is.
这是一个简单的道德，我不认为我会通过告诉你这个道德是什么而破坏任何东西。
The moral of that story is, kids, stay in school.
这个故事的寓意是，孩子们，留在学校。
Act Three, The Bully's Pulpit, in which we visit with a house, and we ask, is there any hope for this house, this house with one of the worst reputations of any house in the country?
第三幕，恶霸的讲坛，我们参观了一所房子，我们问，这座房子还有希望吗，这座房子是这个国家名声最差的房子之一？
I refer to the US House of Representatives.
我指的是美国众议院。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, It's Not a Crack House, It's a Crack Home.
第一幕，这不是一个破房子，这是一个破房子。
Maherin Gangat has this story.
马赫林·甘加特有这样一个故事。
And before we start, a quick warning to sensitive listeners that the story mentions the existence of prostitution and of drug use.
在我们开始之前，先向敏感的听众发出一个快速警告，该故事提到了卖淫和吸毒的存在。
Here's Maherin.
这是马赫林。
Originally, I was trying to do a story about drug use in Brooklyn, and I was looking for prostitutes to interview.
最初，我想拍一个关于布鲁克林吸毒的故事，我正在寻找妓女进行采访。
And on Starr Street in Brooklyn, there's a notorious house, a gathering place for prostitutes and addicts.
而在布鲁克林的斯塔尔街，有一座臭名昭著的房子，是妓女和瘾君子的聚集地。
So when I saw the house I knew exactly what it was.
所以当我看到那所房子时，我清楚地知道它是什么。
Broken windows, missing shingles, garbage thrown all over, women heading in and out at all hours, shiny new Escalades parked in front, young men draped in gold chains.
窗户破损，木瓦缺失，垃圾扔得到处都是，女人们随时进进出出，闪亮的新凯雷德停在前面，年轻男子戴着金链子。
This was not just a house of ill repute, this was a full-on den of inequity.
这不仅是一座声名狼藉的房子，更是一个十足的不平等之巢穴。
So when the front door of the house opened, the person who came out was not what I expected.
所以当房子的前门打开时，出来的人并不是我想象的那样。
An 80-year-old man with white, messy hair.
80多岁的老人，头发花白，凌乱。
I can't give you my real name.
我不能告诉你我的真实姓名。
It was too atrocious.
实在是太残暴了。
I had to Americanize it.
我必须将其美国化。
What was your real name?
你的真名是什么？
Joseph G.
约瑟夫·G.
Amedeo [?
阿梅迪奥 [?
Gerlando ?] Guisseppe Amedeo.
格兰多？] 吉塞佩·阿梅代奥。
I simply read Joseph G.
我只是读了约瑟夫·G.
Amedeo.
阿梅代奥。
No one could pronounce it.
没有人能发音。
Amedeo, a simple name.
阿梅代奥，一个简单的名字。
They call me Yamamoto, which is a Japanese admiral.
他们叫我山本，是一位日本海军上将。
Armadillo, which is a rodent with an outer shell.
犰狳，一种有外壳的啮齿动物。
What else?
还有什么？
Amarillo, which is a city in Texas.
阿马里洛，这是德克萨斯州的一个城市。
It's the summer, but Joe's wearing a grungy sweater.
现在是夏天，但乔穿着一件脏兮兮的毛衣。
You could easily mistake him for a homeless person.
你很容易把他误认为是一个无家可归的人。
But when he talks, he's lucid, chatty, which has the perverse effect of making everything he says seem even weirder, like when I ask him about the prostitutes who live in his house.
但当他说话时，他很清醒，健谈，这产生了反常的效果，让他所说的一切看起来更奇怪，就像当我问他住在他家里的妓女的事情时。
They offered to bring me food, but I keep telling them I'm on a special diet.
他们主动提出给我带食物，但我一直告诉他们我正在节食。
They eat all kinds of oily things and things that are heavily sugared, which I will not touch.
他们吃各种油腻的东西和高糖的东西，我是不会碰的。
I've relaxed a little bit.
我稍微放松了一点。
I will eat some corn muffins now and cookies and Oreos.
我现在要吃一些玉米松饼、饼干和奥利奥。
Not too many.
不是太多。
The body tells me when I've had enough.
当我受够了时，身体会告诉我。
I said, this is too sweet.
我说，这也太甜了吧。
I don't like it.
我不喜欢它。
If you don't mind my asking-- it's somewhat of a personal question--
如果你不介意我问——这有点个人问题——
Quiet.
安静。
Go ahead.
前进。
Maherin Gangat If you don't mind, do you take drugs?
Maherin Gangat 如果您不介意的话，您会吸毒吗？
Absolutely not.
绝对不是。
I have diabetes, for which I take a pill, and I have hypertension, for which I take another pill.
我患有糖尿病，我服用一种药片；我患有高血压，我服用另一种药片。
I don't like needles of any kind.
我不喜欢任何类型的针。
For three months, I kept going back to Joe's house, to try and figure out exactly how and why this courtly, 80-year-old man ending up turning his home over to prostitutes and junkies.
三个月来，我不断地回到乔的家，试图弄清楚这个彬彬有礼的 80 岁老人到底是如何以及为何最终将自己的家交给了妓女和瘾君子。
OK, this is how I came to know about the house.
好吧，我就是这么知道这个房子的。
I was over here prostituting.
我在这里卖淫。
This is Sylvia.
这是西尔维娅。
Sylvia And.
西尔维娅和.
One of the girls was like, I [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
其中一个女孩说，我[无法理解]。
I want somewhere to go get high because I'm the one-- so she brought me here.
我想去某个地方嗨起来，因为我就是那个人——所以她带我来这里。
And after she brought me here, I kept coming back.
她带我来这里之后，我就不断地回来。
I never stop coming back here.
我永远不会停止回到这里。
Before Sylvia ended up at Joe's house back in 2001, she'd been living on the street.
2001 年西尔维娅搬进乔家之前，她一直住在街上。
She said there were around seven women in Joe's house when she was there, all of them finding Johns to make money, using the money to buy drugs, bringing the drugs back to the house to get high, and hanging out.
她说，她在的时候，乔家里大约有七名妇女，她们都找约翰斯赚钱，用这些钱买毒品，把毒品带回屋里吸毒，然后出去玩。
And Joe was their unlikely patron, a World War II veteran, never married, former mortuary caretaker, and lifelong rare book enthusiast.
乔是他们不太可能的赞助人，他是一名二战老兵，从未结过婚，曾任太平间管理员，也是终生的善本爱好者。
The excitement of finding a rare book that you bought it for $0.25 and you sell it for $25.
发现一本稀有书籍的兴奋之情，您以 0.25 美元的价格购买，然后以 25 美元的价格出售。
A letter from John Foster Dulles.
约翰·福斯特·杜勒斯的一封信。
I bought it for $0.50 in a famous bookshop.
我在一家著名书店花0.50美元买的。
They had it outside tucked into a book, some silly book, and that was about $60.
他们把它放在外面的一本书里，一本愚蠢的书，大约 60 美元。
Here's how Joe ended up so far from the book business.
这就是乔最终远离图书行业的原因。
He's lived in the Bushwick neighborhood of Brooklyn his whole life, the last 50 years in this house on Starr Street.
他一生都住在布鲁克林的布什威克社区，过去 50 年一直住在斯塔尔街的这所房子里。
Bushwick started changing in the 1970s and '80s, back when Joe's house was still just a normal, neat, middle class home.
Bushwick 在 20 世纪 70 年代和 80 年代开始发生变化，当时乔的房子还只是一栋普通、整洁的中产阶级住宅。
Back then, as one hyperbole-inclined former junkie I talked to put it, over 200 different types of heroin could be bought at a corner just three blocks from Joe's house.
当时，正如我交谈过的一位倾向于夸张的前瘾君子所说，在距离乔家仅三个街区的拐角处可以买到 200 多种不同类型的海洛因。
As the neighborhood declined, people started breaking into Joe's house regularly.
随着社区的衰落，人们开始定期闯入乔的家。
He'd get home from work and find his belongings rifled through.
他下班回到家，发现自己的物品被洗劫一空。
Joe didn't have much worth stealing.
乔没有太多值得偷的东西。
There's not a lot of street resale value in the letters of John Foster Dulles.
约翰·福斯特·杜勒斯的信件在街头转售价值并不高。
But the constant break-ins unnerved him.
但不断的闯入让他感到不安。
He didn't believe the police would help, so he came up with a plan.
他不相信警察会帮忙，所以他想出了一个计划。
I picked some girls that are always walking in front of the house that I would see.
我挑选了一些总是在我看到的房子前面行走的女孩。
I didn't know them.
我不认识他们。
And for a free pack of cigarettes every day, they would watch the building, just let me know who's coming into my house.
每天只要一包免费香烟，他们就会监视大楼，让我知道谁进入我家。
His plan worked, and it continued this way for years, with Joe gradually getting to know the women outside, until one cold day.
他的计划奏效了，这种情况持续了很多年，乔逐渐认识了外面的女人，直到一个寒冷的一天。
November came along, 1995, and they say, hey, we're cold.
1995 年 11 月到来了，他们说，嘿，我们很冷。
We're cold.
我们很冷。
We're cold.
我们很冷。
Can we come in?
我们可以进来吗？
Perhaps it was just an especially cold night.
也许只是一个特别寒冷的夜晚。
Perhaps it's because 1995 is the year Joe retired and he was spending all his time alone in his house.
也许是因为 1995 年乔退休了，他所有的时间都一个人呆在家里。
But for whatever reason, he let them in.
但不管出于什么原因，他还是让他们进来了。
And this was a pivotal decision.
这是一个关键的决定。
The women stayed upstairs that night, and he became friends with one of them.
那天晚上，这些女人住在楼上，他和其中一位成了朋友。
Her name is Jean, and she took care of Joe, including once when he was very ill.
她的名字叫琼，她照顾乔，包括在他病得很重的时候。
I had diarrhea.
我腹泻了。
And I told her, I feel very sick.
我告诉她，我感觉很不舒服。
My legs are weak.
我的腿软了。
I can't walk.
我不能走路。
I said, I soiled my pants with this diarrhea that I'm having.
我说，我腹泻弄脏了裤子。
She says, well, if you have to do it in your pants, do it in your pants.
她说，好吧，如果你必须在裤子里做，那就在裤子里做。
I'll clean it.
我会清理它。
Now, what person-- I mean, isn't this something?
现在，什么人——我的意思是，这不是什么东西吗？
It's a person that tells you that, not even my mother would do that maybe if I were ill as a baby.
有人告诉你，如果我小时候生病了，也许连我妈妈都不会这么做。
But that was impressive.
但这令人印象深刻。
And that's the first one I brought in to stay.
这是我带进来留下来的第一个。
But the drug habit was there and there's nothing I could do.
但吸毒习惯已经存在，我无能为力。
Jean started to tell her friends, other prostitutes and addicts, about Joe's kindness.
琼开始向她的朋友、其他妓女和瘾君子讲述乔的善良。
And some of them moved into Joe's house.
他们中的一些人搬进了乔的房子。
And for a while, it worked really well, even for Joe.
有一段时间，它的效果非常好，甚至对乔来说也是如此。
Some of the people who showed up, including the Johns, were useful.
一些出现的人，包括约翰夫妇，都是有用的。
One of the girls had an attorney which helped me without charging me the fee.
其中一个女孩有一位律师帮助我，而且没有向我收取费用。
We had a dentist.
我们有一位牙医。
There was another fellow there, Bill.
那里还有另一个人，比尔。
He did repairs on the house.
他对房子进行了修理。
He can fix storm windows or anything, repair anything about the house.
他可以修理防风窗或任何东西，修理房子里的任何东西。
I was so happy I had them [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
我很高兴拥有它们[难以理解]。
But then the house started attracting more than just lawyers and handymen.
但后来这座房子开始吸引的不仅仅是律师和勤杂工。
Scarier types began showing up, and more people overall.
更可怕的类型开始出现，而且人数也越来越多。
And men moved in, and people who didn't even talk to Joe.
男人搬了进来，甚至不跟乔说话的人。
And whatever lingering normalcy was left in the house vanished.
房子里残留的一切常态都消失了。
Joe became a tenant in his own house, cramped into one room on the ground floor while anywhere between half a dozen and 15 other people just took the place over.
乔成为了自己房子的房客，他挤在一楼的一个房间里，而其他六到十五个人就占据了这个地方。
Joe never let me see the inside of the house.
乔从来不让我参观房子的内部。
He would only talk to me outside.
他只在外面跟我说话。
I think he just didn't want to see my reaction to how he was living and what his house had become.
我想他只是不想看到我对他的生活方式和他的房子变成什么样子的反应。
Joe's project, as he calls it, had spiraled out of control.
乔的项目，正如他所说的那样，已经失控了。
The project as it is today is a failure.
今天的项目是失败的。
The thing I started doesn't exist anymore.
我开始的事情已经不存在了。
Now we're getting in the criminal-- the criminal set is coming here.
现在我们要抓到罪犯了——罪犯组正来到这里。
There's a pipeline among criminals and they all find their way to this house, you see.
你看，犯罪分子之间有一条管道，他们都找到了进入这所房子的路。
Do you feel a little isolated or scared inside the house?
您在房子里感到有点孤立或害怕吗？
I had all of the rooms were mine.
我所有的房间都是我的。
Now I have just a little tiny little space here.
现在我这里只有一点点小小的空间。
The entire upper floors were empty at that time and very neat.
当时整个楼上都是空的，而且非常整洁。
Today, you'll find hell.
今天，你会发现地狱。
Actually, wholly hell.
事实上，完全是地狱。
This is the foretaste of hell.
这是地狱的预兆。
I haven't been up there since 2002.
自2002年以来我就没有去过那里了。
I know what those rooms used to look like.
我知道那些房间以前是什么样子。
I don't dare, I just don't want to see it.
我不敢，我只是不想看到。
I don't want the memory picture.
我不想要记忆里的照片。
A lot of people didn't even want to go in there.
很多人根本就不想进去。
A lot of Johns didn't want to go in there.
很多约翰不想进去。
But they do.
但他们确实如此。
This is Sylvia again, describing that upper floor where Joe stopped going in 2002.
又是西尔维娅，她正在描述乔 2002 年不再去的那层楼。
There was like rats moving around and the rats are almost as big as the people.
就像老鼠在四处走动，老鼠几乎和人一样大。
I never seen a cockroach.
我从来没有见过蟑螂。
I only see rats.
我只看到老鼠。
There's no bathroom.
没有浴室。
I used to hold it and try to go to the restaurant on the block, but if I couldn't hold it, I couldn't hold it.
我曾经抱着它，试着去街区的餐馆，但如果我坚持不住，我就坚持不住了。
But all the time I used to hold it.
但我一直都握着它。
And so, I mean, are there buckets in there?
那么，我的意思是，里面有桶吗？
Mmm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Of waste.
浪费。
Maherin Gangat Besides the buckets of human waste and the rats, Sylvia said there were holes in the roof, so when it rained, it rained inside the house.
马赫林·甘加特（Maherin Gangat） 除了成桶的人类排泄物和老鼠外，西尔维娅还说屋顶上有洞，所以下雨时，房子里也会下雨。
There was no running water, only one room had electricity.
没有自来水，只有一间房间有电。
It'd been divided up into cubicles.
它被分成几个小隔间。
This is where the women slept and sometimes brought Johns.
这是妇女们睡觉的地方，有时还带着短裤。
I wound up at Joe's house after I had quit working for the escort service.
辞去三陪服务工作后，我来到了乔家。
Lisa is 27, really skinny, though she tells me her weight's not as low as it used to be.
丽莎 27 岁，非常瘦，尽管她告诉我她的体重不像以前那么轻了。
She's got sores on her lips.
她的嘴唇上有疮。
Even though Joe's house is a step up from the street, it's one of the last stops on a long, downhill journey for a lot of the women there.
尽管乔的房子距离街道仅一步之遥，但对于那里的许多女性来说，这是漫长的下坡旅程的最后一站。
Before moving into Joe's, Lisa worked as an escort, making around $1,000 a night, she says, and moving in upscale circles.
丽莎说，在搬进乔家之前，她曾担任过伴游，每晚收入约 1,000 美元，并进入了高档圈子。
We would go everywhere, basically.
基本上我们会去任何地方。
There were clubs we went to.
我们去了一些俱乐部。
Some of them would take you out to eat.
他们中的一些人会带你出去吃饭。
Well, I'll put it like this, I've been to the Waldorf for a few calls, and it is a big hotel.
好吧，我会这样说，我去过华尔道夫酒店几次，这是一家大酒店。
The biggest chandelier you could ever see.
您见过的最大的枝形吊灯。
That was two years ago.
那是两年前的事了。
Today, Lisa says she makes a lot less, between $100 and $400 a day.
如今，丽莎说她的收入少了很多，每天只有 100 美元到 400 美元之间。
Though she spends $250 a day on heroin and crack.
尽管她每天花费 250 美元购买海洛因和快克。
I ask her about her relationship with Joe.
我问她和乔的关系。
He doesn't care what we do.
他不关心我们做什么。
He just likes the fact that's there's people with him.
他只是喜欢有人陪着他。
Does he interact with you guys a lot?
他和你们互动多吗？
Because I know he doesn't go upstairs.
因为我知道他不会上楼。
Sometimes.
有时。
No, he don't come upstairs at all.
不，他根本不上楼。
He doesn't deal with what we do.
他不关心我们所做的事情。
He gives us our space.
他给我们空间。
And he socializes.
他还参加社交活动。
I mean, as soon as company does come, he gets lifted up.
我的意思是，只要有人来了，他就会兴奋起来。
Like, when I'm around, I give him attention and affection, you know what I'm saying?
就像，当我在身边时，我给予他关注和关爱，你知道我在说什么吗？
Like a father to a daughter.
就像父亲对女儿一样。
And it lifts him up.
这让他振作起来。
It's like, when you give him attention, it's like he's happy that someone's talking to him.
就像，当你给予他关注时，他会很高兴有人和他说话。
And he could talk to you for hours.
他可以和你聊上几个小时。
So one reason Joe let his house turn into a brothel, he's lonely.
所以乔让他的房子变成妓院的原因之一是他很孤独。
And I honestly couldn't figure out the exact nature of his relationship with these women.
老实说，我无法弄清楚他与这些女人的关系的确切性质。
Joe was always forthcoming with his answers, except this one.
乔总是很乐意给出答案，除了这个。
When I asked him point blank about whether he considered any of the women a girlfriend, his non-answer was revealing.
当我直截了当地问他是否认为这些女性中的任何一个是女朋友时，他的不回答很能说明问题。
I can't answer that question.
我无法回答这个问题。
I can't answer that question.
我无法回答这个问题。
Sorry, I can't.
抱歉，我不能。
It's just that I don't want to fabricate if I can avoid it.
只是能避免的话我就不想编造了。
This is how I see it.
我是这样看的。
Joe's living in a house full of prostitutes, many of whom are very fond of him.
乔住在一个充满妓女的房子里，其中许多人都非常喜欢他。
I wouldn't be surprised at all if in the 10 years since the women first moved in, Joe occasionally went from the downstairs tenant to a client.
如果在女人们搬进来的十年里，乔偶尔从楼下的房客变成客户，我一点也不会感到惊讶。
Then again, the thought occurred to me, he might be gay.
然后我又想到，他可能是同性恋。
Joe's a lifelong bachelor who lived with his mother well into his 30s and loves rare books.
乔终生单身，三十多岁时一直与母亲住在一起，热爱善本。
But what was clear to me the longer I spent with Joe is that, even though he liked having company in his house, he felt trapped.
但我和乔相处的时间越长，我就越清楚，尽管他喜欢在家里有人陪伴，但他却感到被困住了。
I asked him over and over again, why don't you just call the police?
我一遍又一遍地问他，你为什么不报警呢？
How could you let this happen to your house?
你怎么能让这样的事情发生在你家里呢？
Joe could never answer those questions.
乔永远无法回答这些问题。
I think there's a lot of reasons.
我认为有很多原因。
I think part of it is that the changes happen incrementally over time.
我认为部分原因是随着时间的推移，变化逐渐发生。
There was never one clear moment to draw the line.
从来没有一个明确的时刻来划清界限。
And partly, Joe likes having people to take care of.
在某种程度上，乔喜欢有人照顾。
It's nice to still have the power to do that, especially if you're vulnerable and needy yourself.
很高兴仍然有能力做到这一点，尤其是当你自己很脆弱且需要帮助时。
These are homeless people.
这些都是无家可归的人。
Take them and put them in your house.
把它们拿走并把它们放在你的房子里。
Hi Jojo.
嗨乔乔。
Joseph G.
约瑟夫·G.
Amedeo Hello.
阿梅代奥 你好。
I fought with them.
我和他们一起战斗。
I didn't quite fight with them, but I spoke to the neighborhood groups.
我并没有和他们吵架，但我和邻里团体进行了交谈。
They're afraid.
他们害怕。
You have prostitutes here, and this and that, which is true.
这里有妓女，这个那个，这是真的。
They says, we have to raise our children here.
他们说，我们必须在这里抚养我们的孩子。
I says, well, these girls go out at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 in the morning.
我说，好吧，这些女孩早上1:00、2:00、3:00、4:00、5:00出去。
Do your kids go out at that hour?
你家孩子这个时间出去吗？
Not that Joe doesn't have problems with the things he sees the women do.
这并不是说乔对他看到的女人所做的事情没有意见。
When a girl might have a needle syringe sticking out of her neck and hanging down, or another would jab her neck once and become frustrated she couldn't get the vein.
当一个女孩可能有一个针头注射器从她的脖子上伸出并垂下来，或者另一个人刺伤她的脖子一次并感到沮丧时，她无法抽到静脉。
She try a second time and put a second hole in her neck.
她第二次尝试，在脖子上打了第二个洞。
I says, get away from your neck, please.
我说，请远离你的脖子。
Don't do that.
不要那样做。
Don't do that.
不要那样做。
Then I had to realize that one of them said, if I have $5, I'll do $5 worth of drugs.
然后我不得不意识到他们中的一个人说，如果我有 5 美元，我就会做价值 5 美元的毒品。
If I have $500, I would do $500 worth of drugs.
如果我有 500 美元，我会购买价值 500 美元的毒品。
In other words, they wanted this so much that it was futile for me or anyone else to try and stop it, until the girl comes to the realization, I don't want this anymore, I don't want this kind of life anymore.
换句话说，他们太想要这样了，以至于我或其他任何人试图阻止它都是徒劳的，直到女孩意识到，我不再想要这样了，我不再想要这样的生活了。
And some of them did that.
他们中的一些人确实这样做了。
This is true.
这是真实的。
During the time I was reporting this story, Lisa quit using drugs.
在我报道这个故事期间，丽莎戒掉了毒品。
She said she's glad the house was there for her.
她说她很高兴有房子适合她。
Good evening, gentlemen.
晚上好，先生们。
Cop 1 What's up, mister?
警察 1 什么事，先生？
Are you the elderly man?
你是那位老人吗？
I'm afraid I am.
恐怕我是。
Maherin Gangat It's a rainy night, around 7:00 PM, and two police officers show up at Joe's house.
Maherin Gangat 那是一个雨夜，晚上 7:00 左右，两名警察出现在乔家。
Joe seems calm, not surprised or worried.
乔看起来很平静，没有感到惊讶或担心。
His house has been raided before.
他的房子以前曾被袭击过。
As long as somebody holds the light for you.
只要有人为你点亮光明。
Joe struggles to unlock the gate, so one of the cops does it for him.
乔费力地打开大门，所以一名警察帮他打开了门。
Then we all go inside.
然后我们都进去。
The cops tell Joe to sit down.
警察让乔坐下。
Who's up there?
上面是谁？
Joseph G.
约瑟夫·G.
Amedeo The man who helps me with the house.
阿梅迪奥 帮我做家务的人。
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
You got lights in here?
你这里有灯吗？
You don't have any lights, do you?
你没有灯，是吗？
I cut them off.
我把它们剪掉了。
Maherin Gangat It turns out, this visit isn't a raid.
Maherin Gangat 事实证明，这次访问并不是一次突袭。
The cops are here at the request of Adult Protective Services.
警察是应成人保护服务中心的要求来到这里的。
It's all part of a plan by the district attorney to clean up the neighborhood.
这是地方检察官清理社区计划的一部分。
Step one, get Joe out.
第一步，把乔救出来。
Step two, get the prostitutes and everyone else out.
第二步，把妓女和其他人都赶出去。
A caseworker wants to take Joe to the hospital.
一名社会工作者想带乔去医院。
Joe doesn't want to go.
乔不想去。
So the caseworker has asked the cops to remove him.
因此，社工要求警察将他带走。
How are you, buddy?
你好吗，伙计？
Joseph G.
约瑟夫·G.
Amedeo Not bad.
阿梅代奥 不错。
You feeling better?
你感觉好些了吗？
I know you had a cold last week.
我知道你上周感冒了。
This is Sergeant Zegilla of the 83rd Precinct.
我是第 83 分局的泽吉拉中士。
He's been at the house before.
他以前来过这个房子。
Nine cops are milling around inside Joe's house.
九名警察在乔的房子里闲逛。
Some go upstairs.
有的上楼。
Sergeant Zegilla stays downstairs with Joe.
泽吉拉中士和乔一起住在楼下。
I'm in my 80s.
我80多岁了。
Sergeant Zegilla What's your date of birth?
泽吉拉中士 你的出生日期是几号？
And if you want me to survive, then I remain here.
如果你想让我活下去，那我就留在这里。
Joe, Joe.
乔，乔。
We're going to calm down.
我们要冷静下来。
We're not to that point yet at all.
我们还没有到那一步。
Oh, you're not?
哦，你不是吗？
Sergeant Zegilla I just want to ask you a few simple questions.
泽吉拉中士 我只想问你几个简单的问题。
Oh, you most certainly are Joe.
哦，你肯定是乔。
Everybody--
大家——
Everybody in Bushwick's worthy of my attention.
布什威克的每个人都值得我关注。
All right, Joe.
好吧，乔。
You know what year it is?
你知道今年是哪一年吗？
2006.
2006年。
Sergeant Zegilla There you go.
泽吉拉中士 就这样吧。
You know who the president is?
你知道总统是谁吗？
What's his name?
他叫什么名字？
Bush.
衬套。
Maherin Gangat Sergeant Zegilla asks Joe when he last ate.
马赫林·甘加特（Maherin Gangat）中士泽吉拉问乔上次吃饭是什么时候。
Joe tells him he had turkey for lunch.
乔告诉他午餐吃火鸡。
He tells Sergeant Zegilla he wants to stay in the house, but I don't hear the rest of the conversation, because that's when the cops kick me out.
他告诉泽吉拉警官他想留在房子里，但我没有听到剩下的谈话，因为那时警察把我赶了出去。
Around 10 minutes later, Joe walks out and into a waiting ambulance.
大约10分钟后，乔走出去，走进一辆等候的救护车。
None of the women living in the house full-time are around.
全职住在房子里的女性都不在。
The next day, I visit Joe at the hospital.
第二天，我去医院探望乔。
He's on the phone with his niece.
他正在和他的侄女通电话。
She lives in New Jersey.
她住在新泽西州。
Are the people nice there?
那里的人好吗？
Joseph G.
约瑟夫·G.
Amedeo Very.
阿梅代奥 非常。
Very polite.
非常有礼貌。
They look like they have training.
他们看起来像是受过训练的。
They have training?
他们有训练吗？
Joseph G.
约瑟夫·G.
Amedeo I would say so, yes.
阿梅代奥 我会这么说，是的。
Joe gets a lot of visitors at the hospital during the 12 days he's there.
乔在医院的 12 天里接待了很多访客。
People from the house, social workers, cops.
家里的人、社会工作者、警察。
Everyone has the same conversation with Joe.
每个人都与乔有同样的对话。
What's next?
接下来怎么办？
Where is he going to go?
他要去哪里？
The city is threatening to condemn the building.
该市威胁要谴责这座建筑。
One cop is particularly concerned.
一名警察尤其担心。
I'm just wondering what the next step is when you're released from the hospital.
我只是想知道你出院后下一步是什么
Well, that's a good question.
嗯，这是个好问题。
Cop 2 I read the Times Newsweekly that there's a big article in the paper about the problems over there on Starr Street.
《警察 2》 我读到《泰晤士报新闻周刊》，报纸上有一篇大文章是关于斯塔尔街那边的问题的。
They actually mention your building.
他们实际上提到了你的大楼。
If there's anything you can do to delay bringing the building down, because I lived there 50 years and this could be my last gasp.
如果你能做点什么来推迟这座大楼的拆除，因为我在那里住了 50 年，这可能是我的最后一口气。
I don't know about that, Joe.
我不知道，乔。
I'd feel a lot better if, like, at the end of this, you were somewhere where you could live without having the walls coming down around you and prostitutes shooting up.
如果，在这一切结束时，你能住在一个可以居住的地方，周围的墙不会倒塌，妓女也不会乱射，我会感觉好多了。
You know, I mean--
你知道，我的意思是——
A functioning bathroom.
功能齐全的浴室。
Cop 2 Yeah.
警察2 是的。
Running water.
自来水。
This might help.
这可能会有所帮助。
The day before Thanksgiving, the city condemned the building and started to board it up.
感恩节前一天，市政府谴责了这座建筑，并开始用木板封起来。
The city had been threatening Joe for years, but this time a sign on the house said, quote, "Conditions in this premises are imminently perilous to life." I went inside for a few minutes with the inspector from the Buildings Department.
多年来，这座城市一直在威胁乔，但这一次，房子上的一块标牌上写着：“这里的条件对生命造成迫在眉睫的危险。”我和屋宇署的检查员一起进去了几分钟。
I'd never been upstairs before.
我以前从没上过楼。
As I headed up now, the building inspector got my attention and pointed something out.
当我正往前走时，建筑检查员引起了我的注意并指出了一些事情。
Sorry?
对不起？
Oh, he's pointing out a rat to my right.
哦，他指着我右边的一只老鼠。
Going into Joe's room.
走进乔的房间。
Thanks.
谢谢。
The second story was a mess.
第二个故事就乱了。
Every inch of the floor was covered with stuff.
每一寸地板都被东西覆盖了。
Bikes, sheets, mattresses, dozens of buckets, and books from Joe's collections scattered everywhere, on the floors, in the halls.
自行车、床单、床垫、几十个水桶和乔收藏的书籍散落在地板上、大厅里。
The Buildings Department crew was sealing up the windows with boards.
屋宇署工作人员正在用木板封住窗户。
What are you guys doing?
你们在做什么？
You're clearing it out?
你要清理掉吗？
Yeah, we got to close and seal up the window.
是的，我们必须关上并密封窗户。
So is this as bad as other houses that you've done or worse?
那么这是否和你做过的其他房子一样糟糕或更糟？
That's the worst one.
这是最糟糕的。
Maherin Gangat This is the worst one?
Maherin Gangat 这是最糟糕的一个吗？
Yep.
是的。
Maherin Gangat I headed downstairs to Joe's room.
Maherin Gangat 我下楼来到乔的房间。
It's the first chance I've had to look around.
这是我第一次有机会环顾四周。
I'm just peeking my head in because I can't even step inside.
我只是把头往里看，因为我什至不能走进去。
What I see is packages, packages of books, just all sealed up, just ready to be mailed.
我看到的是包裹，一包一包的书，都密封起来，准备邮寄。
Oh, my God.
我的天啊。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
I'm moving my feet because I know there are rats here.
我正在移动我的脚，因为我知道这里有老鼠。
I can hear them and I just want to keep moving.
我能听到他们的声音，我只想继续前进。
There's a beer can on the bottom here.
这里的底部有一个啤酒罐。
There's a bucket.
有一个桶。
Oh, dear God.
哦，亲爱的上帝。
I guess that's what Joe used.
我猜乔就是这么用的。
After Joe heard about the house, I visited him in the hospital.
乔听说这所房子后，我去医院探望了他。
I was surprised, he looked well rested.
我很惊讶，他看起来休息得很好。
His face had filled out.
他的脸已经饱满了。
He seemed calm, resigned.
他看上去很平静，一副辞职的样子。
I think it's a good thing, personally.
我个人认为这是一件好事。
Not good for me, but for the general welfare, I think it's good.
对我来说不好，但对大众福利来说，我认为这是好事。
And especially for the people who live around the area, it's a good thing.
尤其是对于居住在该地区附近的人们来说，这是一件好事。
But as he said, not good for him.
但正如他所说，这对他来说并不好。
In fact, a huge loss.
事实上，损失巨大。
His friends disappeared.
他的朋友们消失了。
And he lost his home and everything inside it.
他失去了家和里面的一切。
The house was sealed before he could get any of his papers or books.
在他拿到任何文件或书籍之前，房子就被查封了。
He said he felt homeless.
他说他感到无家可归。
He said he'd probably go live with his sister and her husband in Florida, even though he hates the heat.
他说他可能会去佛罗里达和他姐姐和她的丈夫住在一起，尽管他讨厌炎热。
I should somehow go with them because they ran out of money, and the thing for me to do is go there and have my address changed to hers and give them my pension money to help along.
我应该以某种方式和他们一起去，因为他们没钱了，而我要做的就是去那里把我的地址改为她的地址，然后给他们我的养老金来帮助他们。
That'd be the sensible thing to do.
这将是明智的做法。
The sensible thing.
明智的事情。
Sounds unappealing, doesn't it?
听起来没有吸引力，不是吗？
For the last 10 years living in his house, Joe has not been doing the sensible thing.
在过去的十年里，乔住在他的房子里，一直没有做明智的事情。
And I think he liked that.
我想他喜欢这样。
He liked that everything he was doing was unexpected for a man of his age.
他喜欢他所做的一切对于他这个年纪的人来说都是出乎意料的。
It made him feel young.
这让他感觉自己很年轻。
And in a weird way, in spite of everything that went wrong in the house, I think it made him feel in control of his life.
奇怪的是，尽管家里出了什么问题，我认为这让他感觉自己的生活在掌控之中。
When I met him, one of the first things he said to me was that he had to live in the house because it was the only way to have the lifestyle he wanted.
当我见到他时，他对我说的第一件事就是他必须住在房子里，因为这是实现他想要的生活方式的唯一途径。
I never understood what he meant, what lifestyle he was talking about exactly, till that last visit in the hospital.
直到最后一次去医院之前，我一直不明白他的意思，他所说的生活方式到底是什么。
Then I realized, every day he stayed in that house was one more day he wasn't in Florida, living with his sister, being a sensible retiree.
然后我意识到，他在那所房子里呆的每一天，都意味着他离开佛罗里达州，与他的妹妹住在一起，成为一名明智的退休人员。
Maherin Gangat in New York City.
纽约市的马赫林·甘加特。
Well, coming up, when your starter apartment actually has a starter, and a spare tire, and a steering wheel.
好吧，接下来，当你的入门公寓实际上有一个起动机、一个备胎和一个方向盘时。
How could the next place you live in possibly be any worse?
你住的下一个地方怎么可能更糟呢？
Well, we have answers in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
好吧，当我们的节目继续进行时，我们很快就会从芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台得到答案。
Well, it's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
嗯，这就是《美国生活》，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Houses of Ill Repute.
今天的节目是《名声不佳的房子》。
We have stories about places that are notoriously bad, and about how living in these places can actually be very different than most people assume it would be.
我们有一些关于那些臭名昭著的糟糕地方的故事，以及关于这些地方的生活实际上与大多数人想象的有很大不同的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act two, The Crisco Kid.
第二幕，克里斯科小子。
You know, when you're young and you move out of your parents' house and you're just starting out, you want to act like you're a grownup.
你知道，当你年轻的时候，你搬出了父母的房子，你才刚刚开始，你想要表现得像个成年人。
And you know what that's supposed to look like on the surface: a job, your own place to live.
你知道表面上应该是什么样子：一份工作，你自己的住所。
And then you get those things and you have to pretend that you know what the hell you're doing, even though you really don't.
然后你得到这些东西，你必须假装你知道自己在做什么，即使你真的不知道。
This happened to lots of us this way, including David Wilcox.
我们很多人都遇到过这种情况，包括大卫·威尔科克斯。
A quick warning before we start this story for sensitive listeners, this act, like our first act, mentions sex and drugs.
在我们开始这个故事之前，向敏感的听众发出一个快速警告，这一幕，就像我们的第一幕一样，提到了性和毒品。
When I was in high school, I never bothered looking at different colleges.
当我上高中时，我从来没有费心去寻找不同的大学。
From the start of my senior year I knew where I was going, the University of Houston, because my girlfriend was there.
从大四开始，我就知道自己要去哪里，休斯顿大学，因为我女朋友在那里。
Most alumni don't look back fondly on U of H.
大多数校友对 H 大学的回忆并不美好。
It's a commuter school.
这是一所通勤学校。
There's no campus life, no identity.
没有校园生活，没有身份。
If you lived in the dorms, you went home every weekend because student services shut down late Friday afternoon.
如果你住在宿舍，你每个周末都会回家，因为学生服务在周五下午晚些时候关闭。
But going home wasn't an option for me.
但回家对我来说不是一个选择。
My family had sold their house in the Houston suburbs a few months after I graduated and moved to Birmingham, Alabama, where my dad's company was based.
我毕业几个月后，我的家人卖掉了休斯顿郊区的房子，搬到了阿拉巴马州伯明翰，我父亲的公司所在地。
The spring of my freshman year I roomed in the dorms with a guy named Bill, who was 25 and fresh out of the army.
大一那年春天，我和一个名叫比尔的人住在宿舍里，他 25 岁，刚从军队退伍。
He'd shown up at my front door with nothing but a duffel bag and a double-chambered bong.
他出现在我的前门，除了一个行李袋和一个双室烟枪之外什么也没带。
Our routine was pretty simple.
我们的日常工作非常简单。
We'd stay up until dawn getting stoned, eating frozen chicken sandwiches out of a vending machine, and watching late night game shows.
我们会熬夜到天亮，一边吃着自动售货机里的冷冻鸡肉三明治，一边看深夜的游戏节目。
If we didn't pass out, we'd hit the cafeteria breakfast buffet as soon as it opened, then go to bed and sleep until mid-afternoon.
如果我们没有昏过去，我们就会在自助餐厅一开门就去吃自助早餐，然后上床睡觉直到下午三点左右。
Eventually, two of Bill's friends, who made money selling ecstasy and building lasers for raves, started sleeping on our floor two or three nights a week.
最终，比尔的两个朋友开始每周两三个晚上睡在我们的地板上，他们靠卖摇头丸和为狂欢制造激光器赚钱。
I'd stopped going to class midway through the semester and got a minimum-wage job in the receiving department of a chain bookstore.
我在学期中途不再去上课，在一家连锁书店的接待部门找到了一份工资最低的工作。
The dorm was like a squat, a hovel occupied by too many people where I didn't have to pay rent.
宿舍就像是一个蹲坑，一个被太多人占用的小屋，我不用付房租。
There were no responsibilities, no chores, no pressure, but it was utterly depressing.
没有责任，没有家务，没有压力，但却非常压抑。
As the months passed, I decided it was time to grow up and get out on my own, make a life for myself, though I had no idea what that might look like.
几个月过去了，我决定是时候长大了，独立出去，为自己谋生，尽管我不知道那会是什么样子。
By the time summer rolled around, my parents and I were barely speaking.
夏天来临的时候，我和父母几乎没有说话。
They were furious that I'd given up on school, and I refused to listen to anyone who thought I was making a mistake.
他们对我放弃学业感到愤怒，我拒绝听取任何认为我犯了错误的人的意见。
But that was just part of it.
但这只是其中的一部分。
I also didn't want to talk to them because I was afraid they were going to yell at me.
我也不想和他们说话，因为我害怕他们会对我大喊大叫。
When the dorms closed up and I moved out, I didn't even bother telling them where they could find me.
当宿舍关闭并且我搬出去时，我什至懒得告诉他们在哪里可以找到我。
But it just so happens that they knew my first residence quite well, a white Chevy Beretta my dad had given me.
但碰巧他们对我的第一个住所很熟悉，那是我父亲送给我的一辆白色雪佛兰贝莱塔。
I showered at friends' houses and occasionally crashed on their couches.
我在朋友家洗澡，偶尔会倒在他们的沙发上。
Otherwise, I curled up like a cat on piles of dirty clothes in my backseat.
否则，我会像猫一样蜷缩在后座的一堆脏衣服上。
By early June, after being turned away by a dozen landlords, I finally found an efficiency in a two-story complex called Westmoreland Square.
到了六月初，在被十几个房东拒绝之后，我终于在一栋名为威斯特摩兰广场的两层楼综合大楼里找到了工作效率。
The property manager had no problem renting to a minor with no credit, no rental history, and no money.
物业经理把房子租给没有信用、没有租赁历史、没有钱的未成年人没有任何问题。
When I filled out my rental application, he even told me about a friend of his who could get me a half ounce of weed for $40.
当我填写租赁申请时，他甚至告诉我他的一个朋友可以花 40 美元给我买半盎司大麻。
It took a few days for the paperwork to go through.
文书工作花了几天时间才完成。
In the meantime, my dad got word to me through my girlfriend's parents that he was coming to town on a business trip and wanted me to stop by his hotel.
与此同时，我爸爸通过我女朋友的父母告诉我，他要来城里出差，并希望我去他的酒店。
We met for lunch.
我们见面吃午饭。
He had a note pad in front of him with a list of things he wanted me to consider, all of them variations on two themes: what are you doing, and how do you think you're going to accomplish it?
他面前有一个记事本，上面列出了他希望我考虑的事情，所有这些事情都围绕两个主题进行变体：你在做什么，以及你认为你将如何完成它？
The thing is, he was so calm and so reasonable.
问题是，他是那么冷静，又那么理智。
That threw me.
这让我很震惊。
I didn't have a good answer, but I also didn't think he knew what he was talking about.
我没有一个好的答案，但我也不认为他知道他在说什么。
All I could do was stammer and repeat the same thing over and over.
我所能做的就是结结巴巴地一遍又一遍地重复同样的事情。
I'm doing this because I have to.
我这样做是因为我必须这样做。
I'd been unhappy at school and I didn't want to do it anymore.
我在学校过得很不开心，我不想再这样做了。
And I finally was in a position for the first time in my life where, if I didn't want to do something, I could just stop.
我终于有生以来第一次处于这样的境地：如果我不想做某事，我就可以停下来。
I made this decision because I could.
我做出这个决定是因为我可以。
When lunch was over, my dad told me he'd have to take the Beretta back if I wasn't going to stay in school.
午餐结束后，我爸爸告诉我，如果我不打算留在学校，他就必须把伯莱塔枪拿回来。
Do what you have to do, he told me, but I won't pay for it.
做你必须做的事，他告诉我，但我不会付钱。
Then, just as I was giving him the keys, he gave me a check for $4,000.
然后，正当我把钥匙交给他时，他给了我一张 4,000 美元的支票。
It was more money than I'd ever seen.
这比我见过的钱都多。
I'm paying you for the car, he explained.
“我付钱给你买车，”他解释道。
Make sure you spend it wisely.
确保你明智地花钱。
Most of the money went toward a '67 Volkswagen, and the rest went into the $350 apartment I'd just been approved for.
大部分钱都买了一辆 67 年的大众汽车，其余的则买了我刚刚获准入住的价值 350 美元的公寓。
It had a low ceiling with exposed beams, carpeting that was old but stain-free, and a plate glass window that ran floor to ceiling in the living room.
天花板很低，横梁外露，地毯虽旧但没有污渍，客厅里有一扇从地板到天花板的平板玻璃窗。
Everything seemed to work OK, except the garbage disposal.
除了垃圾处理之外，一切似乎都正常。
Pretty early on, I flushed some leftover spaghetti down the kitchen sink and the noodles somehow wound up in the bathtub.
很早就，我把一些剩下的意大利面条冲进了厨房的水槽，不知怎的，面条就掉进了浴缸里。
My first month in the apartment was relatively quiet.
我在公寓的第一个月相对安静。
I didn't know any of my neighbors and I kept to myself.
我不认识任何邻居，我一直独来独往。
Then, one day, the starter in my car went out, and I spent the afternoon underneath it in the car port.
然后，有一天，我车里的起动机坏了，我在车库里在起动机下面度过了一个下午。
I was trying to get a screwdriver across the solenoid when I heard a soft, cheery voice.
当我试图用螺丝刀穿过电磁阀时，我听到一个轻柔而欢快的声音。
That your Type 3?
那是你的Type 3吗？
Vintage Volkswagens fall into four types.
老式大众汽车分为四种类型。
Mine was a square back, a Type 3.
我的是方背，Type 3。
You can always tell a VW nerd by their insistence on referring to a car by its type, never its name.
你总是可以从大众书呆子们坚持用汽车的类型而不是名字来判断他们的情况。
Yeah, I said, scooting out from under the frame.
是啊，我一边说，一边从车架下钻了出来。
The guy introduced himself as Steve.
那个人介绍自己是史蒂夫。
I guessed he was in his late 30s.
我猜他三十多岁了。
He'd been living in the same apartment for over a decade.
他在同一间公寓里已经住了十多年了。
We wound up spending the next couple afternoons fiddling around with my car.
接下来的几个下午我们都在摆弄我的车。
He was nice, kind of shy, a little mysterious.
他很好，有点害羞，有点神秘。
He worked from home, building some sort of toy for men out of vacuums and cylinders and selling it through classifieds and gay porn mags.
他在家工作，用真空吸尘器和圆筒为男人制作某种玩具，并通过分类广告和同性恋色情杂志出售。
I think we were replacing my battery connectors when he brought up our current residence.
当他提到我们现在的住所时，我认为我们正在更换我的电池连接器。
You know about this place, right?
你知道这个地方，对吗？
What people call it?
人们怎么称呼它？
I had no idea what he was talking about.
我不知道他在说什么。
Crisco Corner, he said.
克里斯科角，他说。
Everybody calls it Crisco Corner.
每个人都称其为 Crisco Corner。
A name like Crisco Corner might speak for itself, but Steve broke it down for me anyway.
像 Crisco Corner 这样的名字本身就说明了一切，但 Steve 无论如何还是为我分解了它。
Basically, as soon as the bars let out every night, randy gay men would start circling the complex over and over looking to pick up a resident.
基本上，每天晚上酒吧一开门，好色的男同性恋就会开始在大楼里转来转去，寻找一名居民。
If they got impatient, they'd park their cars and wander through the courtyard.
如果他们不耐烦了，他们就会把车停好，然后在院子里闲逛。
Anyone interested in company would just leave their front door open and these strangers would walk in and join them.
任何对公司感兴趣的人只要把前门打开，这些陌生人就会走进来加入他们。
Really, it's no big deal, Steve said.
真的，这没什么大不了的，史蒂夫说。
It's not like it used to be in the glory days, not since this new company but the security gates up.
自从新公司成立以来，情况已不再像过去的辉煌岁月，但安全门已经关闭。
And then he paused.
然后他停了下来。
But, it's probably not a good idea to hang out at the pool by yourself.
但是，独自在游泳池闲逛可能不是一个好主意。
And you might want to lock the laundry room door behind you if it's late.
如果时间很晚，您可能需要锁上洗衣房的门。
Suddenly, I saw everything going on around me.
突然，我看到了周围发生的一切。
It was as if Steve had dropped a token in an arcade machine.
就好像史蒂夫把一个代币掉进了街机里一样。
The complex sprang to life.
这座建筑群焕发了生机。
Gangs of drag queens paraded through the courtyard at all hours of the day and night.
成群结队的变装皇后不分昼夜地在庭院里游行。
Guys in leather bondage masks grilled burgers on their front stoops.
戴着皮革束缚面具的家伙在前门廊上烤汉堡。
Maintenance men made service calls in short shorts and roller skates.
维修人员穿着短裤和溜冰鞋拨打维修电话。
Still, I didn't mind calling Crisco Corner home.
不过，我不介意把克里斯科角称为家。
Sure, I got hit on.
当然，我被击中了。
Every now and then, I'd go out on my porch to smoke a joint and some strange man passing by on the street below would ask me for the code to the security gate, so we could hang out in the pool together.
时不时地，我会到门廊去抽根烟，楼下街道上路过的一些陌生人会问我安全门的密码，这样我们就可以一起在泳池里闲逛。
But after an initial period of shock, it seemed like a perfectly normal way to live.
但在经历了最初的震惊之后，这似乎是一种完全正常的生活方式。
Every week or so, my mom called.
大约每周，我妈妈都会打电话来。
She'd ask how work was going, how I was getting along, and I'd say fine.
她会问工作进展如何，我过得怎么样，我会说很好。
Things were fine for the most part.
大部分情况都很好。
My lights had been cut off.
我的灯被切断了。
My car kept breaking down.
我的车老是出故障。
But I was making rent and feeding myself, if nothing else.
但如果没有别的事，我就是在租房子养活自己。
Regardless of how bad it got, I wasn't going to ask for help.
不管情况有多糟糕，我都不会寻求帮助。
And regardless of how worried she might have been, my mom wasn't offering.
不管我妈妈多么担心，她都没有提供。
She'd ask how it was going, and I'd say fine, and that would be that.
她会问进展如何，我会说很好，仅此而已。
A couple days before Halloween, around midnight, I was sprawled out on my living room floor in my boxer shorts.
万圣节前几天，午夜左右，我穿着平角短裤躺在客厅地板上。
The lights were out, the TV was on mute, and I was listening to a Replacements record through headphones.
灯灭了，电视静音，我通过耳机听着 Replacements 唱片。
Alex Chilton had just queued up when I noticed the shadow of a man pass by my window.
当亚历克斯·奇尔顿（Alex Chilton）刚刚排队时，我注意到一个男人的影子从我的窗户旁边经过。
Based on the shoulder length hair, I knew who it was.
从齐肩的头发我就知道是谁了。
A middle-aged bean pole I'd taken to calling the Nuge, though he looked nothing like Ted Nugent.
一个中年豆杆，我管他叫“努格”，尽管他看起来一点也不像特德·纽金特。
The record played through.
唱片播放完毕。
I flipped it over.
我把它翻了过来。
Just as side two started, The Nuge passed by again.
正当第二方开始时，努格再次经过。
A few minutes later, he came back.
几分钟后，他回来了。
This time, he stopped.
这一次，他停了下来。
He was facing my window, moving his head around as if a guy with a tall hat had just sat in front of him in a movie theater.
他面向我的窗户，转动着头，就好像电影院里一个戴着高帽子的家伙刚刚坐在他面前一样。
I got up to see what was going on and The Nuge squatted down.
我站起来想看看发生了什么事，努格蹲了下来。
Without even thinking about it, I opened the blinds to get a better look.
我想都没想就拉开了百叶窗以便看得更清楚。
When I was a kid, there were a few things my parents taught me about taking care of myself, things I had to understand before they'd leave me alone for a night or a weekend.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我的父母教了我一些关于照顾自己的事情，在他们让我独自度过一个晚上或一个周末之前，我必须理解这些事情。
Basic stuff, the number for poison control, keeping doors locked, not telling anyone on the phone that I was home alone.
基本的东西，毒物控制电话号码，锁好门，不告诉电话里的任何人我一个人在家。
We never went over what I was supposed to do should I discover a six-foot hippie enjoying the sight of me in my underwear way, way too much.
我们从来没有讨论过，如果我发现一个六英尺高的嬉皮士在欣赏我穿着内衣的样子，我应该做什么，实在是太多了。
Nor did we discuss the best emergency hotline to call should that same hippie confuse my panic with excitement, move away from the window with his pants undone, and start lightly rapping on the door.
我们也没有讨论如果那个嬉皮士将我的恐慌与兴奋混为一谈，解开裤子离开窗户，并开始轻轻敲门，我们也没有讨论最好拨打的紧急热线。
So I stood there, paralyzed, a shell-shocked teenager trying to figure out the best way to let a pervert know I wasn't that kind of guy.
所以我站在那里，瘫痪了，就像一个震惊的青少年，试图找出最好的方法让一个变态知道我不是那种人。
I finally did what I thought any self-respecting adult would do.
我终于做了我认为任何有自尊的成年人都会做的事情。
I went to the kitchen, grabbed the biggest knife I could find and walked back to the window.
我走进厨房，抓起我能找到的最大的刀，然后走回窗户。
The Nuge lurched back over into his squat just as I jerked open the blinds and pressed the blade against the glass.
当我猛地打开百叶窗并将刀片压在玻璃上时，努格猛地又蹲了下来。
He immediately gave me two OK signs, zipped up his pants, and scooted away.
他立即向我做了两个“OK”的手势，拉上裤子拉链，然后就溜走了。
I spent the rest of the night huddled on the couch with the knife right beside me on the arm rest.
那天晚上剩下的时间我都蜷缩在沙发上，刀就放在我旁边的扶手上。
Then something really bad happened.
然后发生了非常糟糕的事情。
A few weeks after my night with The Nuge, Crisco Corner was hit by a tornado.
在我与 The Nuge 共度一夜之后几周，克里斯科角遭遇了龙卷风袭击。
It was 8:30 in the morning, and I woke up to what sounded like a freight train roaring through my apartment.
那是早上 8 点 30 分，我被一列货运火车呼啸而过我的公寓的声音吵醒。
That's a cliche, I know, but it's not just how the tornado sounds, it's how it feels.
我知道，这是陈词滥调，但这不仅仅是龙卷风的声音，更是它的感觉。
Fast and ferocious and gone before you know it.
快速而凶猛，在你意识到之前就消失了。
You close your eyes and 10 seconds later, when you open them, you expect everything around you to be rubble.
你闭上眼睛，十秒钟后，当你睁开眼睛时，你会发现周围的一切都变成了废墟。
Amazingly, my apartment was untouched, but everything on the other side of my bedroom wall, including the apartment next door, was completely demolished.
令人惊讶的是，我的公寓没有受到任何影响，但我卧室墙另一侧的所有东西，包括隔壁的公寓，都被完全拆除了。
The property manager wound up moving me and my girlfriend into a two-bedroom in the courtyard.
物业经理最终把我和女朋友搬进了院子里的一间两居室。
If you have any interest in seeing what it looked like, you can rent a movie called Rush that came out in the early '90s.
如果您有兴趣看看它是什么样子，您可以租一部 90 年代初上映的名为《Rush》的电影。
It stars Jason Patrick and Jennifer Jason Leigh as narcs who get addicted to drugs and fall in love.
杰森·帕特里克和詹妮弗·杰森·李主演，饰演吸毒成瘾并坠入爱河的缉毒犯。
There's a scene about halfway through where Patrick comes home to find Leigh crawling around frantically searching the carpet for stray dope.
电影进行到一半的时候，帕特里克回到家，发现利在地毯上疯狂地爬来爬去，寻找流走的毒品。
Nothing he does to get her to calm down works, so as a last resort he tosses her face down on a bed and violently sodomizes her.
他所做的一切都无法让她平静下来，所以作为最后的手段，他将她的脸朝下扔在床上，并暴力地鸡奸了她。
Let me repeat that.
让我重复一遍。
He violently sodomizes her so she'll calm down.
他暴力地鸡奸了她，这样她就能平静下来。
That scene was filmed in my bedroom.
那个场景是在我的卧室里拍摄的。
I kept trying to tough it out at Crisco Corner, but things only got worse.
我一直试图在克里斯科角度过难关，但事情只会变得更糟。
The property manager was so desperate to keep the place occupied after the tornado that he gave up even pretending to screen tenants.
龙卷风过后，物业经理非常迫切地想保住这个地方，以至于他甚至放弃了假装筛查租户。
Most of my new neighbors looked like they were hooked on drugs far more serious than anything I'd ever touched.
我的大多数新邻居看起来都对毒品上瘾，比我接触过的任何东西都要严重得多。
The cops started showing up on a regular basis.
警察开始定期出现。
And the scarier it got, the more trapped I felt.
越是可怕，我就越觉得自己被困住了。
Up until all of this, the idea of living on my own had seemed liberating, fun.
直到这一切发生之前，独自生活的想法似乎很自由、很有趣。
But I'd never realized what I was signing up for.
但我从来没有意识到我注册的目的是什么。
The possibility that when something truly horrible happened, no one was going to step in and save me, that's what hit me for the first time the morning the tornado struck.
当真正可怕的事情发生时，没有人会介入并拯救我，这就是龙卷风袭击那天早上我第一次受到的打击。
I'd started looking for a pay phone so I could call my parents.
我开始寻找公用电话，这样我就可以给父母打电话。
At one point, I crossed under some police tape and a cop threatened to take me to jail.
有一次，我穿过警戒线，一名警察威胁要把我送进监狱。
Telling him I was trying to get home to my apartment didn't matter.
告诉他我正想回家，这并不重要。
Giving him a hangdog look that said I was just a kid who needed someone, anyone, to make life a little easier didn't make a difference.
给他一个忧郁的表情，告诉他我只是一个需要有人，任何人，让生活变得轻松一点的孩子，但这并没有什么区别。
To this cop, I was just another guy standing around in his pajamas, kicking shingles with his slippers, wondering where to go from here.
对于这个警察来说，我只是另一个穿着睡衣站在周围，用拖鞋踢木瓦，想知道从这里该去哪里的人。
I wound up calling my mom from a grocery store a mile away.
我最后从一英里外的一家杂货店给妈妈打电话。
The conversation was short and matter of fact.
谈话很简短，而且很务实。
But if there was ever a point at which I was willing to admit that I wasn't fine, that was it.
但如果有一个时刻我愿意承认自己不好的话，那就是了。
She didn't ask how I was doing.
她没有问我过得怎么样。
For the first time in months, the only thing she asked was, what are you going to do now?
几个月来，她第一次问的唯一一件事是，你现在打算做什么？
I told her I didn't know.
我告诉她我不知道。
And then there was a long pause.
然后是长时间的停顿。
Mom, I could have died.
妈妈，我可能会死。
But you didn't, she said.
但你没有，她说。
You're OK.
你没事吧。
As I was getting off the phone, she told me to call if I needed anything.
当我挂断电话时，她告诉我如果需要什么就打电话。
I hung up knowing I wouldn't.
我挂断了电话，知道我不会。
Then I went home and spent the rest of the day by the pool, staring at a dresser that had sunk to the bottom of the deep end.
然后我回到家，在泳池边度过了这一天剩下的时间，盯着一个已经沉入深水区底部的梳妆台。
David Wilcox in Chicago.
大卫·威尔科克斯在芝加哥。
[MUSIC - "STRANGLEHOLD" BY TED NUGENT]
[音乐 - 泰德·纽金特的《扼杀》]
Well, we now turn to one of the biggest houses of ill repute on the planet, the US House of Representatives.
好吧，我们现在转向地球上声名狼藉的最大众议院之一——美国众议院。
And, yes, you've heard about the corruption, you've heard about the lobbying scandals, you've heard about the notorious inability to address some of our most serious national problems.
是的，你听说过腐败，你听说过游说丑闻，你也听说过臭名昭著的无力解决我们一些最严重的国家问题。
Why is it so dysfunctional?
为什么它如此功能失调？
Well, for the last few years, Democrats blamed all of this, every part of it, on the Republicans who were running the place.
好吧，在过去的几年里，民主党人将所有这一切、每一个部分都归咎于管理这个地方的共和党人。
As the majority, the Republicans were-- it is hard to deny this.
作为多数派，共和党人——很难否认这一点。
They were pretty ruthless.
他们非常无情。
They kept Democratic Party voices out of the debate.
他们将民主党的声音排除在辩论之外。
They rammed legislation through.
他们强行通过了立法。
Because they could.
因为他们可以。
They had the votes.
他们有选票。
And now, of course, the tables have turned.
当然，现在情况已经发生了转变。
The Democrats are the majority in the House of Representatives.
民主党在众议院占多数。
And the question is, will things run any better?
问题是，事情会变得更好吗？
Will they run more fairly?
他们会更加公平地运行吗？
Well, one of our producers, Alex Blumberg, went to DC to visit the House of Representatives to ask these questions.
嗯，我们的制片人之一亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）前往华盛顿访问众议院，提出这些问题。
A warning to sensitive listeners, he's actually going to be describing the legislative process of the United States of America.
对敏感听众的警告是，他实际上将描述美利坚合众国的立法程序。
Back when the Republicans still ran Congress this past summer, I spent several hours with Peter Defazio, a Democratic representative from Oregon.
去年夏天，当共和党仍在掌管国会时，我与来自俄勒冈州的民主党代表彼得·德法齐奥 (Peter Defazio) 待了几个小时。
We talked mainly about how much it sucked being in the minority.
我们主要讨论了成为少数派是多么糟糕。
The Republicans, Defazio said, would wait until the last minute to make bills available so that the minority Democrats had to vote on legislation they hadn't even had a chance to read.
德法齐奥说，共和党人会等到最后一刻才提供法案，以便少数民主党人必须对他们甚至没有机会阅读的立法进行投票。
They'd hold meetings in the dead of night, where they'd take bills that had already been voted on and rewrite them.
他们会在夜深人静时召开会议，审议已经通过的法案并重写。
They wouldn't let the minority bring any of their own legislation to the floor.
他们不会让少数派将他们自己的任何立法付诸表决。
Even if it had broad bipartisan support, it would almost certainly pass.
即使它得到两党的广泛支持，它也几乎肯定会通过。
And the minority couldn't even offer amendments without visiting a special committee, called the Rules Committee, and getting their approval, which they almost never gave.
少数派甚至无法在不访问一个称为规则委员会的特别委员会并获得他们的批准的情况下提出修正案，而他们几乎从未给予过批准。
You know, you come in and sometimes there will be a fair number of people.
你知道，你进来有时会有相当多的人。
Other times there will just be one or two people there.
其他时候只有一两个人在那里。
And generally, the Republicans act very bored.
一般来说，共和党人表现得非常无聊。
The Democrats try and be helpful and make points about your amendment.
民主党试图提供帮助并就你的修正案提出观点。
But the Republicans just act bored.
但共和党人只是表现得很无聊。
I've had the chairman of the committee turn his back on me when I was testifying just to chat with his staff, just to show his contempt and the fact that I'm insignificant.
当我作证时，委员会主席就背弃了我，只是为了与他的工作人员聊天，只是为了表达他的蔑视和我的渺小这一事实。
He's not going to allow my amendment.
他不会允许我的修正案。
You might as well leave now.
你最好现在就离开。
Parliamentary inquiry.
议会质询。
Alex Blumberg And then, there was this trick, holding the vote open.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格 然后，有一个技巧，让投票保持开放。
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] inquire.
[无法理解]询问。
Man 1 The speaker, I have a plane to catch in about one hour.
男士 1 发言者，我大约一小时后要赶飞机。
Am I going to be able to do it?
我能做到吗？
Will the vote be ended by that time?
投票到时候会结束吗？
You're listening to the House floor debate on an oil refineries bill from October of 2005.
您正在聆听众议院关于 2005 年 10 月炼油厂法案的辩论。
The guy saying he has a plane to catch is a Democrat.
那个说他要赶飞机的人是民主党人。
And what he's really doing is trying to get the speaker to stop holding the vote open.
他真正做的就是试图让议长停止公开投票。
See, it's the speaker's job to ask members to cast their votes and to tally those votes up.
看，议长的工作就是要求成员投票并统计这些选票。
This casting and tallying is supposed to take a couple of minutes, enough time for everyone to press their yea or nay button.
这个选角和统计应该需要几分钟，足够每个人按下“是”或“否”按钮。
But occasionally, like on this bill, all the votes will come in, the speaker will see that the legislation hasn't passed, and instead of tallying and certifying the results, he does what's called holding the vote open.
但有时，就像在这项法案上一样，所有选票都会进来，议长会看到立法尚未通过，他不会统计和证明结果，而是采取所谓的“保持投票开放”的方式。
He and his colleagues go around and try to convince wayward Republicans to change their votes.
他和他的同事四处奔走，试图说服任性的共和党人改变他们的选票。
Frustrated Democrats, who can see on the big tally screen that they've won, have to just sit and wait.
沮丧的民主党人可以在大计票屏幕上看到他们已经获胜，但他们只能坐下来等待。
For 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, while the majority tries to undo their victory.
20 分钟、30 分钟、40 分钟，而大多数人都试图挽回他们的胜利。
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] inquire.
[无法理解]询问。
Man 1 Is the discretion of the chair or the abuse of the discretion of the chair and the abuse of power subject to a vote of the House?
男子 1 主席的自由裁量权或滥用主席的自由裁量权和滥用权力是否需要众议院投票？
This all happened for the first time when Democrats were in power.
这一切在民主党执政时第一次发生。
Once, in 1987, Speaker Jim Wright kept a vote on a budget bill open for 15 minutes while one of his colleagues came back to the floor to change his vote.
1987 年，有一次，议长吉姆·赖特 (Jim Wright) 对一项预算法案的投票持续了 15 分钟，而他的一位同事则回到会场改变了他的投票。
At the time, it almost sparked a riot among the minority Republicans.
当时，这几乎引发了少数共和党人的骚乱。
Trent Lott smacked a chair in anger so hard that he almost broke it.
特伦特·洛特愤怒地用力拍打椅子，差点把椅子摔碎。
And then congressman Dick Cheney described it as, quote, "The most arrogant, heavy-handed abuse of power I've ever seen in the 10 years that I've been here."
然后国会议员迪克·切尼将其描述为“我在这里十年来见过的最傲慢、最严厉的滥用权力行为”。
The Republicans pulled this move repeatedly in their last couple of years in power.
共和党在执政的最后几年中多次取消了这一举措。
The most extraordinary example was in 2003, during the vote on the Medicare prescription drug benefit.
最不寻常的例子是 2003 年关于医疗保险处方药福利的投票。
Republicans held the vote open for three hours, and this was well after midnight, at the end of a long day in session.
共和党将投票开放了三个小时，此时已是午夜过后，漫长的一天会议即将结束。
They do these things really late, both to avoid the press, and also it's like a torture technique.
他们做这些事情的时间很晚，既是为了躲避媒体，也是一种酷刑。
The whole Congress was on the floor, including Peter Defazio.
整个国会都在场，包括彼得·德法齐奥。
Their own members are tired.
他们自己的成员很累。
They want to go home, and everybody wants to go home.
他们想回家，每个人都想回家。
And they figure, well, we can pressure some people when they're more tired.
他们认为，我们可以在一些人更累的时候给他们施加压力。
You know, it was pretty chaotic on their side, because they brought in some cabinet secretaries who were working out of the Republican cloak room.
你知道，他们这边相当混乱，因为他们引进了一些在共和党衣帽间工作的内阁部长。
They were dragging people off the floor to take phone calls from George Bush and Dick Cheney.
他们把人们从地板上拖下来，接听乔治·布什和迪克·切尼的电话。
You know, it was pretty--
你知道，那很漂亮——
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
And on our side, we're just sitting there staring at them.
而我们这边，只是坐在那里盯着他们。
And every once in a while, we'll just try and say, point of order.
每隔一段时间，我们就会尝试说，程序问题。
Point of order is the rules say no vote should be held open more than 17 minutes.
程序问题是，规则规定投票时间不得超过 17 分钟。
What's going on?
这是怎么回事？
And then they overrule our point of order.
然后他们就否决了我们的程序问题。
Mr. Speaker.
议长先生。
Speaker For what purpose does the gentlelady rise?
发言者 女士起立有何目的？
Mr. Speaker, for the parliamentary inquiry.
议长先生，请议会调查。
The gentlelady may inquire.
那位女士可以询问一下。
Woman 1 Mr. Speaker, my parliamentary inquiry, is it not bringing dishonor to the House of Representatives for this body to act--
女士 1 议长先生，我的议会质询是，这个机构的行动是否会给众议院带来耻辱——
Gentlelady is not stating a proper parliamentary inquiry.
女士女士并没有提出适当的议会调查。
This is not part of the culture of corruption of the Republican Party.
这不是共和党腐败文化的一部分。
Does this gentlelady parliamentary inquiry?
这位女士是否进行议会调查？
To dishonor the wishes of people who have spoken.
侮辱发言者的意愿。
Does the gentlelady have a parliamentary--
这位女士有议会吗——
I have a parliamentary inquiry.
我有一个议会调查。
When are you going to honor--
你什么时候才能兑现——
So we would occasionally try and do that.
所以我们偶尔会尝试这样做。
Or every once in a while, yeah, we would break into a chorus of shame.
或者每隔一段时间，是的，我们就会齐声发出羞愧的声音。
Because it was shameful.
因为那是可耻的。
It was incredibly shameful.
这是非常可耻的。
Without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table.
如果没有异议，重新考虑的动议就被摆上桌面。
Shame.
耻辱。
Shame.
耻辱。
Shame.
耻辱。
Shame.
耻辱。
Shame.
耻辱。
Shame.
耻辱。
It would be different people at different times.
不同的时间会有不同的人。
I mean, you're sitting there.
我的意思是，你坐在那里。
It's 5 o'clock in the morning, you've been sitting there for three hours.
现在是凌晨5点，你已经在那里坐了三个小时了。
You know, something to do.
你知道，有事可做。
Raise your fist and yell shame.
举起拳头大喊羞耻。
Come on, you guys have no shame.
来吧，你们没有羞耻心。
Those Democrats that were here in '93 and '94 before the Republicans took control, they put the screws to the Republicans on a daily basis.
那些93年和94年共和党掌权之前就在这儿的民主党人，每天都在向共和党施压。
They didn't allow for amendments on large pieces of legislation and they shut Republicans out.
他们不允许对大型立法进行修改，并将共和党人拒之门外。
As you can imagine, Republicans disagree with Peter Defazio's assessment that their behavior is at all unusual.
正如你可以想象的那样，共和党人不同意彼得·德法齐奥关于他们的行为完全不寻常的评估。
This is Patrick McHenry, Republican from North Carolina.
我是帕特里克·麦克亨利，来自北卡罗来纳州的共和党人。
He says what a lot of Republicans say.
他说了很多共和党人的话。
They learned everything they know about majority rule from the Democrats, who abused their Republican counterparts throughout the 40 years that they held the majority in Congress.
他们从民主党那里学到了关于多数统治的一切，民主党在国会占据多数席位的 40 年里一直虐待共和党同行。
Republican amendments were routinely denied, Republican voices barred from the debate.
共和党的修正案经常遭到否决，共和党的声音也被禁止参加辩论。
And that whole keeping the vote open thing?
还有保持投票开放的事情吗？
They learned that from a Democrat too, don't forget.
他们也是从民主党人那里学到这一点的，别忘了。
Now, generally, a discussion about who started it never gets anywhere.
现在，一般来说，关于是谁发起的讨论永远不会有任何结果。
Just ask the Israelis and the Palestinians, or your mom for that matter.
只要问问以色列人和巴勒斯坦人，或者你妈妈就可以解决这个问题。
And it can be a dispiriting exercise talking to representatives about this stuff.
与代表谈论这些事情可能是一件令人沮丧的事情。
The tactic on both sides seems to be deflect all criticism with attacks of your own, as if this were a game, which you win by never once admitting your side might have behaved badly.
双方的策略似乎都是用自己的攻击来转移所有的批评，就好像这是一场游戏，你通过从不承认自己的一方可能表现不佳来赢得比赛。
Patrick McHenry is particularly good at this.
帕特里克·麦克亨利尤其擅长这一点。
He's a rising star in his party, in just his second term.
在他的第二个任期内，他是党内一颗冉冉升起的新星。
He's young, charming, and very good at offense.
他年轻、迷人，而且非常擅长进攻。
When I spoke to him, he had two of his press aides in the room, and it was clear that their strategy was to counter every question I asked about Republican strong arm tactics with an equally egregious Democratic abuse.
当我与他交谈时，他的两名新闻助理在房间里，很明显，他们的策略是用同样令人震惊的民主党滥用来反驳我提出的关于共和党强硬策略的每一个问题。
Why did the Republicans hold the vote open for three hours in the middle of the night?
共和党为什么要在半夜举行三个小时的投票？
Well, Democrats, when they were in power, wouldn't even allow a motion to recommit with instructions.
好吧，民主党人在掌权时，甚至不允许一项带有指示的动议重新提交。
Then, of course, you don't know what a motion to recommit with instructions is.
那么，当然，您不知道什么是带有指示的重新提交动议。
And so you have to ask and, boom, you're deflected.
所以你必须问，然后，砰，你就被转移了。
Or even worse, you do know what a motion to recommit is, and you say, but wait a minute, a motion to recommit is a token parliamentary procedure in which the minority offers a substitute, but which is invariably voted down since votes on parliamentary motions are generally considered to be tests of party loyalty and proceed almost always along party lines.
或者更糟糕的是，你确实知道重新提交动议是什么，你会说，但是等一下，重新提交动议是一种象征性的议会程序，其中少数派提出替代方案，但它总是被否决，因为议会动议的投票通常被认为是对政党忠诚度的考验，并且几乎总是沿着政党路线进行。
And then you get into an argument about whether or not a motion to recommit is a meaningless formality or a cornerstone of democracy.
然后你们就开始争论重新提交动议是否是毫无意义的形式或民主的基石。
And, boom, you're deflected even more.
而且，砰，你的偏转甚至更多。
At one point, after a particularly dexterous verbal parry of this kind.
有一次，在经过这种特别巧妙的言语回避之后。
I saw McHenry glance over to one of his aides, who sort of closed his eyes, smiled, and gave a little fist pump, the same gesture a pitcher makes when he strikes a batter out.
我看到麦克亨利看了一眼他的一位助手，后者闭上了眼睛，微笑着，轻轻地握了握拳头，就像投手将击球手击出局时所做的那样。
But fortunately, the recent midterm elections have created a perfect laboratory for the study of majority versus minority behavior.
但幸运的是，最近的中期选举为研究多数人与少数人的行为创造了一个完美的实验室。
As we all know, in 2006, the Democrats came to power, and it didn't take long for roles to reverse.
众所周知，2006年民主党上台，没过多久角色就互换了。
And so in our first 100 hours of legislation, which will begin next week, we will begin by making America safer by passing the 9/11 Commission recommendations.
因此，在下周开始的前 100 小时立法中，我们将首先通过 9/11 委员会的建议，让美国变得更安全。
This is Nancy Pelosi, the newly elected Democratic speaker of the House, of course, in early January, announcing her party's legislative agenda for its first 100 hours in power.
这是南希·佩洛西，新当选的民主党众议院议长，当然是在 1 月初，她宣布了该党执政 100 小时的立法议程。
The Democrats passed all the bills in their agenda by pretty wide margins.
民主党以相当大的优势通过了议程中的所有法案。
But in doing so, they bypassed the committee process.
但这样做却绕过了委员会的程序。
They waited till the last minute to make their legislation available.
他们等到最后一刻才公布立法。
And they didn't allow amendments, or any input really, from the Republicans, who, by the way, had also switched roles.
他们不允许共和党人提出修正案或任何真正的意见，顺便说一句，共和党人也转换了角色。
Good afternoon, thank you for joining us today.
下午好，感谢您今天加入我们。
A group assembled here today are leading the fight for the minority bill of rights, encouraging honest, open, and fair legislative debate.
今天聚集在这里的一个团体正在领导少数群体权利法案的斗争，鼓励诚实、公开和公平的立法辩论。
That's Patrick McHenry, who also made a brief appearance on TV recently at a press conference with a handful of other Republican congressmen.
这就是帕特里克·麦克亨利，他最近也在电视上与其他几位共和党国会议员一起参加了新闻发布会。
And he didn't deny that what he was asking for might sound familiar.
他并不否认他的要求听起来很熟悉。
Pelosi asked for the same things in a letter she sent back when she was in the minority.
佩洛西在她属于少数派时发回的一封信中也提出了同样的要求。
The bill we offer today, the minority bill of rights, is crafted based on the exact text that then minority leader, Nancy Pelosi, submitted in 2004 to then speaker of the house Dennis Hastert.
我们今天提出的法案，即少数派权利法案，是根据时任少数派领袖南希·佩洛西 (Nancy Pelosi) 于 2004 年向时任众议院议长丹尼斯·哈斯特特 (Dennis Hastert) 提交的文本精心起草的。
The point being that if Pelosi wanted open debate and minority participation then, she had to grant it now.
关键是，如果佩洛西当时想要公开辩论和少数派参与，她现在就必须批准。
Although it's hard not to note that when Pelosi asked for it in 2004, she was utterly ignored by the Republican leadership.
尽管我们很难不注意到，2004 年佩洛西提出要求时，共和党领导层完全忽视了她。
McHenry says, there's no inconsistency.
麦克亨利说，这并不存在不一致之处。
Well, because Republicans, that wasn't a key part of our campaign, talking about openness and fairness.
嗯，因为共和党人，谈论开放和公平并不是我们竞选的关键部分。
It was a key part of the Democrat strategy and Democrat campaign.
这是民主党战略和民主党竞选活动的关键部分。
So for them to come in on their first days in power and say, we actually are going back on our campaign pledge for openness and bipartisanship in their first hours, that is hypocrisy.
因此，他们在上任的第一天就说，我们实际上在上任的第一个小时就违背了开放和两党合作的竞选承诺，这是虚伪的。
That is the height of hypocrisy for them to campaign on openness, but govern in a closed fashion.
他们以开放的方式竞选，却以封闭的方式执政，这就是虚伪的程度。
It takes a lot of chutzpah to make this argument.
提出这个论点需要很大的勇气。
Essentially, it's worse for the Democrats to act imperiously because they said they wouldn't, whereas the Republicans never even claimed they'd be fair.
从本质上讲，民主党采取专横的行动更糟糕，因为他们说他们不会这样做，而共和党甚至从未声称他们会公平。
Democrats say, look, this is just for the first 100 hours.
民主党人说，看，这只是前 100 个小时。
And besides, all that legislation had been debated over and over again.
此外，所有这些立法都经过了一遍又一遍的辩论。
Here's Peter Defazio.
请听彼得·德法齐奥的报道。
Everything we're voting on in the 100 hours, we have proposed previously, we've attempted to trigger votes on the increase in the minimum wage.
我们之前已经提议过，我们在这 100 小时内投票的所有事情，我们都试图引发对提高最低工资的投票。
We begged them.
我们恳求他们。
We tried parliamentary maneuvers.
我们尝试过议会演习。
We tried a dozen ways to bring that bill up in the House.
我们尝试了十几种方法将该法案提交给众议院。
They know exactly what they're voting on.
他们确切地知道自己在投票什么。
In fact, half the Republicans wanted to vote for it in the end.
事实上，一半的共和党人最终想投票支持它。
I think it's an aberration from how we will treat them consistently after we get through the first 100 hours.
我认为这与我们在度过最初 100 小时后一贯对待他们的方式背道而驰。
How do you keep, though-- how do you make sure that that actually happens?
但是，你如何保持——如何确保这确实发生？
You know, because I think human nature is, well, wow, it was really easy.
你知道，因为我认为人性是，哇，这真的很容易。
If we just keep limiting debate.
如果我们继续限制辩论。
It seems to me like there must be quite a powerful incentive as the majority to limit debate and to sort of make it easier for yourself.
在我看来，作为大多数人，必须有相当强大的动机来限制辩论并让自己变得更容易。
Well, that will remain to be seen.
嗯，这还有待观察。
I mean, going from this point forward.
我的意思是，从现在开始。
I have heard very little discussion from anybody, even the hot heads, on my side of the aisle saying, no, we should just abuse them day in, day out the way they did us, and abuse the process.
我很少听到任何人的讨论，甚至是那些头脑发热的人，在我这一边说，不，我们应该像他们对待我们一样日复一日地滥用他们，滥用这个过程。
Not in the caucus, not in the gym, not anywhere.
不在党团会议上，不在健身房里，不在任何地方。
I haven't heard it.
我没听说过。
What's strange is, everyone I talked to, on both sides of the aisle, said exactly the same thing about the way things should be.
奇怪的是，与我交谈过的每个人，无论是两党，都对事情应该如何发展的说法完全相同。
One party doesn't have a lock on good ideas.
某一方无法锁定好的想法。
Minority input almost always makes legislation better.
少数人的意见几乎总是能让立法变得更好。
And they both seemed upset, honestly so, when talking about their treatment as the minority.
说实话，当谈到自己作为少数群体所受到的待遇时，他们都显得很沮丧。
It made me realize something.
这让我意识到了一些事情。
Leaving aside the question of what shutting out the minority does to democracy, to the people in the minority, it hurts and it makes them mad.
撇开将少数群体拒之门外对民主有何影响的问题不谈，对少数群体的人民来说，这伤害了他们，也让他们发疯。
Imagine, you're being told that, though you represent nearly half the country, your vote will never count, your ideas will never be considered, no one will ever listen to you, you don't matter at all.
想象一下，你被告知，尽管你代表了近一半的国家，但你的投票永远不会算数，你的想法永远不会被考虑，没有人会听你的，你根本不重要。
It's an utterly demeaning feeling.
这是一种完全贬低的感觉。
And it's a feeling the Democrats felt for the last 12 years, and the Republicans felt for the 40 years before that, which partly explains why this behavior can perpetuate, even though nobody really wants it to.
民主党在过去 12 年里感受到了这种感觉，而共和党在之前的 40 年里也感受到了这种感觉，这在一定程度上解释了为什么这种行为能够持续下去，尽管没有人真正希望如此。
It's hard to let go.
很难放手。
You may look like a majority, but you still feel like a minority.
你可能看起来像大多数人，但你仍然感觉自己是少数人。
Well, there is a lot of pent-up anger.
嗯，有很多被压抑的愤怒。
I mean, 12 years of being abused.
我的意思是，被虐待了12年。
12 years, or at least, I think, 8 years of having the rules chairman sneer at us and turn his back.
12 年了，或者至少，我认为，8 年了，规则主席一直嘲笑我们并背弃了我们。
Now he's down their whining that they're not getting open rules and all these sorts of things.
现在，他不再抱怨他们没有制定开放的规则以及诸如此类的事情。
There is some tendency to say, yeah, this is payback.
有人倾向于说，是的，这就是回报。
And boy, it's tough, isn't it?
孩子，这很难，不是吗？
So I think that actually the 100 hours could be healthy.
所以我认为实际上这 100 小时可能是健康的。
If for the first 100 hours, we treat them somewhat the same way they treated us for 12 years, and then, after that, we restore some of what I think are proper rights and privileges to the minority.
如果在最初的 100 个小时里，我们对待他们的方式与他们对待我们 12 年的方式相同，那么在那之后，我们会恢复少数人的一些我认为适当的权利和特权。
Perhaps if they take back over again, they'll be a little more respectful.
也许如果他们再次收回，他们会更加尊重一些。
The other thing about arguments over who started it, once they get going they're hard to stop.
关于是谁发起的争论的另一件事是，一旦开始就很难停止。
No one knows this better than Jim Wright, the democratic speaker who held the vote open back in 1987, cracking the door that the Republicans burst through two decades later.
没有人比民主党议长吉姆·赖特 (Jim Wright) 更了解这一点，他在 1987 年举行了投票，打开了共和党在二十年后冲破的大门。
Speaking in 2004 at a ceremony in his honor, he had this to say about that day.
2004 年，他在纪念他的仪式上发表讲话时谈到了那一天。
"The bottom line is that what I'd done that day did not contribute to harmonious relations.
“最重要的是，我那天所做的事情并没有促进和谐的关系。
Although the maneuvers were legal and in keeping with the rules, my mind was too determined, my attitude too insistent.
虽然动作合法、合规，但我的心思太坚决，态度太坚持。
I believed that I offended a number of my Republican colleagues.
我相信我冒犯了一些共和党同事。
I won the vote, but sacrificed a more precious commodity: good will.
我赢得了选票，但牺牲了更宝贵的商品：善意。
In the end, it wasn't worth it.
最终，这是不值得的。
If that day were to do over again, I like to think I'd do it differently."
如果那天能够重来一次，我想我会采取不同的做法。”
Alex Blumberg.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格。
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Jane Feltes and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak and Nancy Updike.
图片来源：Ira Glass 嗯，今天我们的节目是由 Jane Feltes 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Diane Cook、Sarah Koenig、Lisa Pollak 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作的。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Seth Lind and Tommy Andres.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 和汤米·安德烈斯 (Tommy Andres) 为制作提供帮助。
Music help from Jessica Hopper.
杰西卡·霍珀的音乐帮助。
Our website, where not only can you get the absolutely free podcast of our program or listen to any of our old programs online, this week on the website there is information about our upcoming six-city national tour.
在我们的网站上，您不仅可以获得我们节目的完全免费的播客或在线收听我们的任何旧节目，本周网站上还有有关我们即将进行的六城市全国巡演的信息。
That's New York, LA, Minneapolis, Chicago, Boston, and Seattle.
其中包括纽约、洛杉矶、明尼阿波利斯、芝加哥、波士顿和西雅图。
We are coming to your town if you live in one of those six cities.
如果您住在这六个城市之一，我们就会来到您的城镇。
And we are doing our show live on stage.
我们正在舞台上现场表演。
Live.
居住。
Now, the lineup of performers is going to vary from city to city, but they include, depending on where you are, Sarah Vowell, David Rakoff, Jonathan Goldstein, John Hodgman, Dan Savage, Alexa Junge, Mates of State, plus outtakes from our new television show.
现在，表演者阵容将因城市而异，但根据您所在的位置，其中包括莎拉·沃威尔、大卫·拉考夫、乔纳森·戈德斯坦、约翰·霍奇曼、丹·萨维奇、亚历克莎·荣格、国家伴侣，以及我们新电视节目的片段。
To see who is playing in your city and to find out about tickets, go to our website, www.thisamericanlife.org.
要查看您所在城市的比赛选手以及门票信息，请访问我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who called me into his office the other day with a question.
[资金来源] Torey Malatia 先生对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，前几天他把我叫到他的办公室提出了一个问题。
You know about this place, right?
你知道这个地方，对吗？
What people call it?
人们怎么称呼它？
Crisco Corner.
克里斯科角。
Everybody calls it Crisco Corner.
每个人都称其为 Crisco Corner。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of this American life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多关于美国生活的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。