322: Shouting Across the Divide - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #322 | January 4, 2008 322: Shouting Across the Divide Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 322 集 | 2008 年 1 月 4 日 322：跨越鸿沟的呼喊 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass You probably remember when those Danish cartoons of the prophet Mohammed caused so much anger in the Muslim world.
序言 Ira Glass 您可能还记得那些关于先知穆罕默德的丹麦漫画在穆斯林世界引起了如此多的愤怒。
Violent protests over Europe and the Middle East, flags were burned, Danish products pulled off shelves.
欧洲和中东发生暴力抗议，国旗被焚烧，丹麦产品下架。
It's blasphemy to depict the prophet at all.
描绘先知根本就是亵渎。
Many American newspapers would not reprint the Danish cartoons.
许多美国报纸不会转载丹麦漫画。
And is this true for you?
这对你来说是真的吗？
I am not actually sure I've ever seen any kind of picture of the prophet Mohammed, ever.
我实际上不确定我是否见过先知穆罕默德的任何照片。
Well with that in mind, it's kind of interesting to hear that there is a place in this country where you can see an image of Mohammed right now.
考虑到这一点，听说这个国家有一个地方现在可以看到穆罕默德的图像，这很有趣。
There's actually a sculpture of Mohammed on display in Washington, DC.
实际上，华盛顿特区展出了穆罕默德的雕塑。
And not in some crackpot salon.
而不是在一些疯狂的沙龙里。
This is actually in a US government building.
这实际上是在美国政府大楼内。
And it's not just any US government building.
它不仅仅是任何美国政府大楼。
It's the Supreme Court building.
这是最高法院大楼。
And it's not just any room in the Supreme Court building.
这不仅仅是最高法院大楼的任何一个房间。
It's actually in the room where the justices hear cases.
它实际上是在法官审理案件的房间里。
You're a US Supreme Court Justice, you look up and to the right from the bench, and there's Mohammed.
你是美国最高法院的法官，你从法官席上向右抬头，就会看到穆罕默德。
And hearing this, perhaps right now you're asking yourself the exact same question that Ibrahim Hooper had when he first heard about this.
听到这个，也许你现在正在问自己和易卜拉欣·胡珀第一次听说这个问题时同样的问题。
Why would they have an image of the prophet Mohammed in the Supreme Court?
为什么他们会在最高法院放置先知穆罕默德的肖像？
Unlike you, however, it is Ibrahim Hooper's job to get to the bottom of this kind of thing.
然而，与你不同的是，易卜拉欣·胡珀的工作就是查清此类事情的真相。
Hooper, I should tell you, seems like an unusually cheerful man to have the job that he has.
我应该告诉你，胡珀似乎是一个异常高兴的人，因为他拥有这份工作。
Every single day he goes off to work in an office with the not so simple mission of explaining the Muslim perspective to non-Muslims.
他每天都去办公室工作，肩负着向非穆斯林解释穆斯林观点的不简单任务。
I'm spokesman or communications director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
我是美国伊斯兰关系委员会的发言人或通讯主任。
And it was in this job that back in 1996, he first heard about this sculpture.
1996年，正是在这份工作中，他第一次听说了这座雕塑。
And he looked into it.
他对此进行了调查。
What you see when you go in to the Supreme Court is there's a series of sculptures around the top of the main room.
当您进入最高法院时，您会看到主房间顶部周围有一系列雕塑。
And one of them is of the prophet Mohammed.
其中之一是先知穆罕默德。
And he is shown with a sword in one hand and a Koran in the other.
他一手拿着剑，另一只手拿着一本《古兰经》。
He's actually one of 18 figures, all of them lawgivers throughout the ages including Moses and Solomon, Hammurabi the King of Babylon, King John of England whose seal is actually on the Magna Carta, Augustus Caesar who was the first emperor of Rome.
他实际上是 18 个人物之一，他们都是各个时代的立法者，包括摩西和所罗门、巴比伦国王汉谟拉比、印在《大宪章》上的英国国王约翰、罗马第一位皇帝奥古斯都凯撒。
You have Charlemagne, Confucius, Napoleon, basically all of them lined up in a row like it's a small, small world at Disneyland but for lawyers, OK?
查理曼大帝、孔子、拿破仑，基本上他们都排成一排，就像迪士尼乐园里的一个很小的世界，但对于律师来说，好吗？
And they tell us it was designed to pay tribute to these people, including the prophet Mohammed.
他们告诉我们，它的目的是向这些人致敬，包括先知穆罕默德。
And we don't disagree with that.
我们并不同意这一点。
Now it's my understanding this has been there since the '30s.
现在据我了解，这种情况自 20 世纪 30 年代以来就一直存在。
Yeah, and we almost hated to bring it up to them of this.
是的，我们几乎不愿意向他们提起这件事。
If they really think it's there to honor them, it's like well what else are these guys going to complain about?
如果他们真的认为这是为了向他们致敬，那么这些人还有什么可抱怨的呢？
Ibrahim says that the problem from a Muslim perspective was not just that they depicted the prophet Mohammed in this sculpture.
易卜拉欣说，从穆斯林的角度来看，问题不仅仅在于他们在这座雕塑中描绘了先知穆罕默德。
But in this case in particular, you've got a somewhat stereotypical representation in that it has the sword and the Koran, which is often-- people make the stereotype of Islam was spread with camel riding Muslims going across the desert with a sword in one hand and the Koran in the other.
但在这种情况下，特别是在这种情况下，你会得到一种有点刻板印象，因为它有剑和《古兰经》，这通常是人们对伊斯兰教的刻板印象是骑着骆驼的穆斯林一手拿着剑，另一只手拿着《古兰经》穿越沙漠。
So that in itself, along with the visual representation of the prophet, is a problem for Muslims.
因此，这本身以及先知的视觉表现对穆斯林来说都是一个问题。
So, on behalf of his organization and American Muslims, Ibrahim wrote a letter to the Supreme Court.
因此，易卜拉欣代表他的组织和美国穆斯林写了一封信给最高法院。
And he met with the Supreme Court staff in what he says was a very amicable meeting.
他会见了最高法院的工作人员，他说这是一次非常友好的会面。
And before long, he got an answer about the sculpture and a letter from then Chief Justice Rehnquist.
不久之后，他收到了有关雕塑的答复以及时任首席大法官伦奎斯特的一封信。
They came back saying basically that because it was designed to honor the prophet, that it would not be changed.
他们回来说基本上是因为它是为了纪念先知而设计的，所以它不会改变。
But that the literature describing-- it's called the North Wall Frieze-- would be changed to reflect some of the criticism.
但描述的文献——它被称为北墙饰带——将被修改以反映一些批评。
"Altering the stone carving," the Chief Justice wrote, would quote "impair the artistic integrity of the whole." And as to the fact that Mohammed was shown with a sword, Rehnquist said, quote, "I would point out that swords are used throughout the Court's architecture as a symbol of justice.
首席大法官写道，“改变石雕会损害整体的艺术完整性”。至于穆罕默德手持剑的事实，伦奎斯特说，“我要指出的是，整个法院的建筑都使用剑作为正义的象征。
Nearly a dozen swords appear in the courtroom friezes alone." And so, with that, the statue stays.
仅法庭的饰带上就出现了近十几把剑。”就这样，雕像就留下了。
But the official Supreme Court information sheet about it says, quote, "The figure above is a well-intentioned attempt by the sculptor to honor Mohammed and it bears no resemblance to Mohammed." And then it says, "Muslims generally have a strong aversion to sculptured or pictured representations of their prophet." That is, we know you are offended, and we acknowledge that.
但最高法院的官方信息表称，“上面的雕像是雕塑家为了纪念穆罕默德而善意的尝试，它与穆罕默德没有任何相似之处。”然后它说，“穆斯林通常对他们先知的雕塑或图画有强烈的反感。”也就是说，我们知道您被冒犯了，并且我们承认这一点。
Now sit down.
现在坐下。
A bit disappointing, but at least we did what we needed to do.
有点失望，但至少我们做了我们需要做的事情。
I have to say, the moral of the story is sort of dispiriting.
我不得不说，这个故事的寓意有点令人沮丧。
It's one of these moments where people are trying to be inclusive.
这是人们试图包容的时刻之一。
And even then, they screw it up.
即便如此，他们还是把事情搞砸了。
Yeah, and it's kind of a situation where people aren't quite understanding each other's perspective.
是的，这是一种人们不太理解彼此观点的情况。
We would hope that people would understand why we would raise objections about this portrayal.
我们希望人们能够理解为什么我们会对这种描述提出反对。
But I have the feeling that people on the other side are scratching their heads and going, you can't please them.
但我有一种感觉，对方的人正在摸不着头脑，你无法取悦他们。
We thought we were doing a good thing by putting in an image of the prophet Mohammed and still they don't like it.
我们认为放入先知穆罕默德的图像是在做一件好事，但他们仍然不喜欢它。
Well it seems to be getting worse as we go along.
好吧，随着我们的进展，情况似乎变得越来越糟。
We had the recent situation where we had the imams praying in an airport in Minnesota.
最近的情况是，我们让伊玛目在明尼苏达州的一个机场祈祷。
And that seemed to freak people out.
这似乎让人们感到害怕。
And then they were taken off the plane.
然后他们就被带下了飞机。
And from our perspective, who could object to somebody praying?
从我们的角度来看，谁会反对某人祈祷呢？
But from other people's perspectives, they say, well they prayed before they crashed the planes into the World Trade Centers.
但他们说，从其他人的角度来看，他们在飞机撞向世贸中心之前进行了祈祷。
Which brings us to today's program, stories of Muslims and non-Muslims shouting across a divide, trying to communicate with each other and not always getting their point across.
这给我们带来了今天的节目，讲述了穆斯林和非穆斯林跨越鸿沟大声喊叫，试图相互沟通，但并不总是能表达自己的观点的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Act One of today's show, forget about the problems of presidents and diplomats have being understood by each other.
今天的节目第一幕，忘记总统和外交官的问题已经得到了彼此的理解。
Why would it be so hard for Muslims and non-Muslims to get along in the fourth grade.
为什么穆斯林和非穆斯林在四年级时相处起来这么困难？
Act Two, America the Ad Campaign.
第二幕，美国广告活动。
In that act, Shalom Auslander explains the difficulties of selling brand America to the Arab world, which he experienced in his job at a big ad agency.
在那一幕中，沙洛姆·奥斯兰德解释了向阿拉伯世界推销美国品牌的困难，这是他在一家大型广告公司工作时经历过的。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Which One of These is Not Like the Others?
第一幕，其中哪一个与其他的不同？
This is partly a story about Muslims and non-Muslims not seeing eye to eye.
这在一定程度上是一个关于穆斯林和非穆斯林意见不一致的故事。
But it's also about how that kind of dispute can affect a family.
但这也关系到这种纠纷如何影响一个家庭。
And effect it in a really big way, a surprisingly large way.
并以一种非常大的方式、令人惊讶的方式来影响它。
Alix Spiegel tells what happened.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔讲述了发生的事情。
This sad story begins with a happy one, a love story set in a location not usually associated with love stories, the West Bank.
这个悲伤的故事始于一个幸福的故事，这是一个发生在通常与爱情故事无关的地点的爱情故事，即约旦河西岸。
It was there that Serry met her husband, a man with a wonderful sense of humor who, like Serry, felt strongly about his Islamic faith.
正是在那里，塞里遇到了她的丈夫，一个极具幽默感的男人，和塞里一样，他对自己的伊斯兰信仰有着强烈的感情。
Now because they were observant Muslims, the couple didn't date in the traditional American way.
现在，因为他们是虔诚的穆斯林，这对夫妇没有以传统的美国方式约会。
Instead, they met exclusively in the presence of family, talked, exchange philosophies.
相反，他们只在家人在场的情况下见面、交谈、交流哲学。
Serry was, is, an American, born and bred.
塞里曾经是、现在也是一个土生土长的美国人。
But these restrictions didn't bother her, didn't faze her at all.
但这些限制并没有让她烦恼，根本没有让她感到困扰。
I pretty much knew this was the person I wanted to have children with.
我几乎知道这是我想与之生孩子的人。
I knew he was a really decent, to the core kind of guy.
我知道他是一个非常正派、骨子里的人。
And it really didn't take long for us to realize, we were pretty much soul mates.
没过多久我们就意识到，我们几乎是灵魂伴侣。
So there really was no question that they would get married.
所以他们结婚确实是毫无疑问的。
No question that they would spend the rest of their lives together.
毫无疑问，他们将一起度过余生。
The only real question was where to raise their family.
唯一真正的问题是在哪里养育他们的家庭。
On this point, Serry felt pretty strongly.
对于这一点，塞里的感受相当强烈。
When they were getting to know each other, her husband had shared horror stories about his childhood in the West Bank, stories of situations that Serry, who grew up in a large American city without being exposed to strife of any kind, had no interest in experiencing firsthand.
当他们互相认识时，她的丈夫分享了他在约旦河西岸童年的恐怖故事，塞里在美国大城市长大，没有经历过任何形式的冲突，因此没有兴趣亲身经历这些故事。
So I convinced him to come to America.
所以我说服他来美国。
And I said it would be a perfect place to raise our children because they would never have to go through some of the things he went through as a child.
我说这将是抚养我们孩子的完美地方，因为他们永远不必经历他小时候经历的一些事情。
Anyway, he was very hopeful.
不管怎样，他还是充满希望的。
He came to this country on a very hopeful note.
他满怀希望地来到这个国家。
And we were really happy.
我们真的很高兴。
We were really happy, very blessed.
我们真的很幸福，很幸福。
The couple started out in New York City, but after having three children, decided that they wanted a more suburban existence, a quiet place where their kids could play outside.
这对夫妇最初住在纽约市，但在生了三个孩子后，他们决定想要一个更郊区的生活，一个安静的地方，让孩子们可以在外面玩耍。
Now let me clarify something about Serry and her husband.
现在让我澄清一些关于塞里和她丈夫的事情。
Though they were personally devout Muslims, they were all about assimilation.
尽管他们个人都是虔诚的穆斯林，但他们都热衷于同化。
In fact, growing up, Serry had almost no Muslim friends.
事实上，在成长过程中，塞里几乎没有穆斯林朋友。
So when it came time to move, they didn't worry much about finding a community where there were people who shared their faith.
因此，当需要搬家时，他们并不太担心找到一个有共同信仰的社区。
Instead, they picked a small, prosperous town on the East Coast.
相反，他们选择了东海岸一个繁荣的小镇。
There was no mosque around.
周围没有清真寺。
The nearest mosque was actually about an hour from where we lived.
最近的清真寺实际上距离我们住的地方大约一个小时。
We went there maybe sporadically.
我们可能偶尔去那里。
But it was never really an issue because we always thought we were free to practice our religion anywhere we were.
但这从来都不是一个真正的问题，因为我们一直认为我们可以在任何地方自由地实践我们的宗教。
And honestly, to me, I think it's very boring if I were just surrounded by Muslims.
老实说，对我来说，我认为如果我周围都是穆斯林，那会很无聊。
So I was actually looking forward to raising my children where we landed.
所以我实际上很期待在我们着陆的地方抚养我的孩子。
The family spent four happy years in their new home, had two more children, a successful local business.
这家人在新家度过了幸福的四年，又生了两个孩子，在当地做起了成功的生意。
And then came September 11.
然后到了 9 月 11 日。
Like everyone else, Serry and her husband watched in horror as the towers came down, worried about their friends and family.
和其他人一样，塞里和她的丈夫惊恐地看着双塔倒塌，担心他们的朋友和家人。
And then, like most people, went back to their day to day lives.
然后，像大多数人一样，回到他们的日常生活。
But suddenly, Serry says, her neighbors in her small town seemed to see her in a different way.
但突然之间，塞里说，她小镇上的邻居似乎以不同的方式看待她。
They didn't return her greetings and stared at her hijab, the headscarf she wore out of respect for God.
他们没有回应她的问候，而是盯着她的头巾，她出于对上帝的尊重而戴的头巾。
I saw it in people.
我在人们身上看到了这一点。
I saw something that wasn't there before.
我看到了以前不存在的东西。
And it was-- sometimes I would drive, and drivers in the next lane would give me the finger.
有时候我开车，旁边车道的司机会对我竖中指。
Serry says she usually flashed the peace sign back, then drove away.
塞里说，她通常会亮出和平手势，然后开车离开。
But every time this happened, it absolutely floored her.
但每一次这样的事情发生，都让她大吃一惊。
It just didn't conform to her idea of herself.
只是这不符合她对自己的想法。
You mostly saw yourself as American, right?
你大多认为自己是美国人，对吧？
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
I mean that was my primary identifier.
我的意思是那是我的主要标识符。
Then almost a year after September 11, Serry got a very clear signal that at least one of her neighbors didn't see her as American as she saw herself.
9 月 11 日差不多一年后，塞里得到了一个非常明确的信号：至少她的一个邻居并不像她自己那样认为她是美国人。
I got up in the morning and piled the kids into my minivan only to find out that our minivan had been vandalized.
我早上起床，把孩子们塞进我的小型货车，却发现我们的小型货车被破坏了。
Our windshield was broken, and there was a note that was left on the broken windshield saying-- essentially ordered us to leave the country.
我们的挡风玻璃被打破了，破碎的挡风玻璃上留下了一张纸条，上面写着——基本上是命令我们离开这个国家。
Serry immediately hid the note in her purse, and tried to minimize the whole thing for the kids.
塞里立即把这张纸条藏进了她的钱包里，并试图为孩子们尽量减少整件事的发生。
I told them things would be OK.
我告诉他们一切都会好起来的。
And I told them not to really talk about it to anyone.
我告诉他们不要真的向任何人谈论这件事。
Why did you tell them not to tell anybody or talk about it?
你为什么告诉他们不要告诉任何人或谈论这件事？
Well, I didn't want them bringing attention to themselves that way.
好吧，我不想让他们以这种方式引起人们的注意。
As a mother, I just didn't want people to perceive us as victims, as people that this is done to.
作为一名母亲，我只是不想让人们将我们视为受害者，视为遭受这种对待的人。
I was hoping it was just an isolated incident.
我希望这只是一个孤立的事件。
And so that's what I told the kids.
这就是我告诉孩子们的。
It was probably some maybe adolescent who had a bad day.
可能是某个青少年度过了糟糕的一天。
So we chalked it up to that.
所以我们把它归结为这一点。
Serry's husband, however, had a different view.
然而塞里的丈夫却有不同的看法。
Perhaps because of his background, perhaps for some other reason, he found the incident profoundly unsettling.
也许是因为他的背景，也许是其他原因，他觉得这件事非常令人不安。
But, like Serry, he minimized the situation in front of the kids.
但是，就像塞里一样，他在孩子们面前尽量减少了这种情况。
He never showed the children that he was upset really.
他从来没有向孩子们表明他真的很沮丧。
He just told them, these things happen from time to time.
他只是告诉他们，这些事情时有发生。
Vandalisms happen unfortunately.
不幸的是，故意破坏行为时有发生。
And so the family continued as it had.
于是这个家庭就这样继续下去。
In private, Serry and her husband prayed five times a day.
私下里，塞里和她的丈夫每天祈祷五次。
But in the outside world, aside from the hijab Serry wore, they downplayed their faith, rarely talked about it.
但在外界，除了塞里戴的头巾外，他们对自己的信仰轻描淡写，很少谈论。
This was also true of their children.
他们的孩子也是如此。
I really didn't have any Muslim friends.
我真的没有任何穆斯林朋友。
This is Serry's twelve year old daughter, her eldest.
这是塞里十二岁的女儿，她的长女。
I'll call her Chloe.
我会叫她克洛伊。
Chloe, like her mother, is shockingly beautiful.
克洛伊和她的母亲一样，美丽得令人震惊。
So it's no surprise to hear that even though she had no Muslim friends, for most of her life Chloe was extremely popular.
因此，听到尽管克洛伊没有穆斯林朋友，但在她一生的大部分时间里，她都非常受欢迎，这并不奇怪。
That's what her mother says, and Chloe agrees.
她妈妈就是这么说的，克洛伊也同意。
I had a lot of friends.
我有很多朋友。
We were into horses basically.
我们基本上都喜欢马。
And we went over to each other's houses just to play with them, talk about them, and draw them.
我们去彼此的家里只是和他们一起玩，谈论他们，画他们。
Because Chloe spent most of her life in the same town, growing up with the same kids, September 11 didn't really affect her relationships.
因为克洛伊一生的大部分时间都在同一个城镇度过，与同样的孩子一起长大，所以 9 月 11 日并没有真正影响她的人际关系。
Her friends knew she was Muslim, but clearly didn't care.
她的朋友知道她是穆斯林，但显然并不在意。
They still went to each other's houses and played with their toy horses.
他们仍然去对方的家里玩他们的玩具马。
At least that's how it was for about a year after the towers came down.
至少双塔倒塌后大约一年的时间里都是这样。
Then, Chloe turned nine and entered the fourth grade.
然后，克洛伊九岁了，进入四年级。
Chloe, who had always done well academically, was looking forward to going back to class.
克洛伊的学业成绩一直很好，她期待着重返课堂。
She thought it would be a normal school year.
她以为这会是一个正常的学年。
And in fact, when Chloe showed up in her classroom at the end of the summer, close to the year anniversary of September 11, things did seem pretty normal.
事实上，当夏末，临近 9 月 11 日周年纪念日时，克洛伊出现在她的教室里时，一切看起来确实很正常。
I got to meet my teacher, and she seemed nice the first day, the first week.
我见到了我的老师，第一天、第一周她看起来很好。
But it all changed on September 11, that one day.
但一切都在9月11日这一天发生了变化。
I picked up the children from school that day, and she was in tears.
那天我接孩子们放学，她泪流满面。
She was inconsolable.
她伤心欲绝。
She wasn't even making sense.
她甚至没有讲道理。
She just was crying and crying.
她只是一直哭啊哭啊。
Apparently, as part of the lesson for the 9/11 anniversary, the teacher in Chloe's class had passed out a book, a slim paperback intended to educate the students about the 9/11 tragedy.
显然，作为 9/11 周年纪念课的一部分，克洛伊班上的老师分发了一本书，一本薄薄的平装本，旨在向学生们介绍 9/11 悲剧。
On the cover it was a picture of The World Trade Center in flames.
封面上是一张着火的世贸中心的照片。
And the first thing was, September 11 was a horrible day.
首先，9 月 11 日是可怕的一天。
Thousands and thousands died.
成千上万的人死亡。
And it said, "Who did it?
并说道：“是谁干的？
We don't know, but here's a clue."
我们不知道，但这里有一个线索。”
Muslims hate Christians.
穆斯林讨厌基督徒。
Muslims hate Americans.
穆斯林讨厌美国人。
Muslims believe that anyone who doesn't practice Islam is evil, and that the Koran teaches war and hate.
穆斯林认为，任何不信奉伊斯兰教的人都是邪恶的，《古兰经》教导战争和仇恨。
There were three other people sitting at my table.
我的桌子旁还坐着另外三个人。
And we were all just looking at the book.
我们都只是在看这本书。
And I was glancing at their faces while we were reading it.
当我们读这本书的时候，我看着他们的脸。
And some of them-- their eyes started to widen, and they just kind of looked at me every time she said the word Muslim.
他们中的一些人——他们的眼睛开始睁大，每次她说“穆斯林”这个词时，他们就看着我。
There were some pictures of Muslim ladies wearing the headscarf, hijab.
有一些穆斯林女士戴着头巾、头巾的照片。
And some of them said, "Hey, those weird ladies.
其中一些人说：“嘿，那些奇怪的女士们。
Her mom is one of them." And then they just all looked at me and said, "You're one of those bad Muslims, aren't you?" And I just said, no, no I'm not.
她的妈妈就是其中之一。”然后他们都看着我说：“你是那些坏穆斯林之一，不是吗？”我只是说，不，不，我不是。
Naturally, after hearing about her daughter's day, Serry called the principal, who was sympathetic but explained to Serry that there just wasn't much she could do.
当然，在听说女儿的一天后，塞里给校长打电话，校长表示同情，但向塞里解释说她无能为力。
It turns out that this was actually a district-wide lesson, meaning that there was a book presented to all the fourth grades in the district.
事实证明，这实际上是一次全区范围的课程，也就是说，有一本书送给全区所有四年级的学生。
Now you might remember that in America following 9/11, there was an immediate press to construct some narrative about what had happened, a need for an explanation of why and what for.
现在你可能还记得，在 9/11 之后的美国，立即有媒体对所发生的事情进行了一些叙述，需要解释原因和原因。
And so, all over the country in hundreds of school districts, educators set to work trying to pull together the few facts they had, assemble them into a plausible argument.
因此，全国数百个学区的教育工作者开始努力将他们掌握的少数事实汇总起来，将它们组合成一个合理的论点。
Now from Serry's perspective, the version of the narrative presented to her daughter's class was visibly, plainly destructive.
现在，从塞里的角度来看，向她女儿的班级呈现的叙述版本显然是具有破坏性的。
But when she confronted Chloe's teacher about the book, the woman didn't seem to agree.
但当她向克洛伊的老师质问这本书时，这位女士似乎并不同意。
The teacher really didn't have any problem with it.
老师确实没有任何问题。
She actually shrugged her shoulders and said well, this is the district-wide lesson.
她竟然耸了耸肩，说好，这是全区的教训。
At that point, Serry's kids were the only practicing Muslims in the school.
那时，塞里的孩子是学校里唯一信奉穆斯林的人。
There was one other Middle Eastern family, but they were secular, and their children were younger, still in kindergarten.
还有一个中东家庭，但他们是世俗人士，孩子也更小，还在上幼儿园。
In fact, it was pointed out to Serry by school administrators, she was the only parent of any child in the school who had a problem with the 9/11 materials.
事实上，学校管理人员向塞里指出，她是学校里唯一对 9/11 材料有问题的孩子的家长。
And then the matter was pretty much dropped by the administration.
然后这件事几乎被政府放弃了。
But moving on was much more difficult for Chloe and her classmates.
但对于克洛伊和她的同学来说，继续前进要困难得多。
They all saw me as a different person.
他们都把我视为不同的人。
Before reading the book, I was just a normal child.
在读这本书之前，我只是一个普通的孩子。
And then, I turned into an Islamic extremist who hated the world and wanted to kill everybody.
然后，我变成了一个仇恨世界、想要杀死所有人的伊斯兰极端分子。
And there's a big difference there.
这里面有一个很大的区别。
That's when the taunting began.
就在这时，嘲讽开始了。
It was just overnight.
这只是一夜而已。
They called me "loser Muslim" and "Osama." They said he was related to me because my mom looks different and she looks like his people.
他们称我为“失败者穆斯林”和“奥萨马”。他们说他和我有亲戚关系，因为我妈妈长得不一样，而且她看起来像他的人。
All my friends were starting to question me nonstop.
我所有的朋友都开始不停地质疑我。
And they were asking me, why does your mom wear that on her head again?
他们问我，为什么你妈妈又把它戴在头上？
And are you sure you're not related to Osama?
你确定你和奥萨马没有关系吗？
It got so bad that when Chloe tried to explain to her best friend that none of this was right, that Muslims weren't bad people who wanted to kill everyone, even her best friend could only reluctantly agree.
事情变得如此糟糕，以至于当克洛伊试图向她最好的朋友解释这一切都是不对的，穆斯林并不是想要杀死所有人的坏人时，即使是她最好的朋友也只能勉强同意。
She said, "Well OK, if you say it, then I'll believe you.
她说：“好吧，如果你这么说，我就相信你。
But it's in a book so it must be true." I didn't want them to think about it anymore.
但这是在书上的，所以它一定是真的。”我不想让他们再去想这件事。
Maybe if I just changed the subject each time they brought it up, I could just move on.
也许如果我在每次他们提出这个问题时改变主题，我就可以继续前进。
If we were in the library, I'll just pick a book and say, have you ever read this book?
如果我们在图书馆，我会选一本书并说，你读过这本书吗？
Let's look at it.
我们来看一下。
Or we would talk about horses.
或者我们会谈论马。
But it didn't really seem to work.
但这似乎并没有真正起作用。
And so Chloe came up with a different strategy.
因此克洛伊想出了一个不同的策略。
She decided to renounce her religion.
她决定放弃她的宗教信仰。
One day that fall, she sat down with her mother and explained that was it all just too much pressure.
那年秋天的一天，她和母亲坐下来解释说，这一切都是因为压力太大了。
I just thought that I can't be Muslim anymore, because then everybody's going to keep bothering me.
我只是想我不能再成为穆斯林了，因为那样每个人都会继续骚扰我。
Everybody is going to make fun of me.
每个人都会取笑我。
And if I had a mom that didn't wear hijab, maybe they would feel that they could be seen with me and have fun with me.
如果我有一个不戴头巾的妈妈，也许他们会觉得可以看到他们和我在一起，和我一起玩。
Did she seem sad when you told her that you didn't want to be Muslim anymore?
当你告诉她你不想再成为穆斯林时，她是否看起来很伤心？
Yeah, she seemed very upset.
是的，她看起来很沮丧。
Alix Spiegel Serry was very upset.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔·塞里非常沮丧。
For her, faith in God was sustaining.
对她来说，对上帝的信仰是持续的。
It helped her get up in the morning.
它帮助她早上起床。
But given her daughter's difficult time in school, she and the rest of the family decided to make some adjustments.
但考虑到女儿在学校的困难时期，她和家里的其他人决定做出一些调整。
We didn't want to force it on her.
我们不想强迫她。
So in a way, we all kind of stopped practicing the way we did before.
所以在某种程度上，我们都停止了以前的练习方式。
They did nothing for Ramadan that year.
那一年他们没有为斋月做任何事情。
That was one concession.
这是一项让步。
There were others.
还有其他人。
And in this way, the family stumbled forward.
就这样，一家人跌跌撞撞地往前走。
October came and went.
十月来了又去了。
November came and went.
十一月来了又去了。
And then there was December.
然后是十二月。
In December, everything went downhill again.
12月，一切再次走下坡路。
December 1, my teacher said, "We're going to be reading a Christmas book every single day.
12 月 1 日，我的老师说：“我们每天都会读一本圣诞书。
I have a whole collection.
我有一整套收藏。
I have hundreds of books at home.
我家里有几百本书。
And we're going to read them every day."
我们每天都会阅读它们。”
Chloe says the idea of reading a Christmas book every day actually didn't bother her.
克洛伊说，每天读一本圣诞书的想法实际上并没有困扰她。
She did Christmas activities every year, and her family usually went out to celebrate the holiday with one or another of their Christian friends.
她每年都会举办圣诞节活动，她的家人通常会和一位或另一位基督徒朋友一起出去庆祝节日。
So Chloe wasn't worried.
所以克洛伊并不担心。
But then on the fifth day of December, the teacher brought in a book that talked about Jesus' blood, how the blood of God's only son could save you.
但到了十二月初五，老师带来了一本书，里面讲到耶稣的血，神独生子的血如何拯救你。
And to underline her point, she used a visual aid.
为了强调她的观点，她使用了视觉辅助工具。
Here's Serry.
这是塞里。
Apparently the teacher had held up a candy cane, passed out candy canes to the class and said, "Look children.
显然，老师举起了一根拐杖糖，向全班同学分发拐杖糖，并说：“看，孩子们。
Let's reflect on the candy cane.
让我们反思一下拐杖糖。
It's in the shape of a J for Jesus.
它呈 J 形状，代表耶稣。
And it has red stripes signifying the blood of Jesus."
它有红色条纹，代表耶稣的血。”
Then, from her own words, she said, "Jesus' blood will save us all.
然后，她用自己的话说道：“耶稣的宝血将拯救我们所有人。
So as long as you're Christian, you'll be saved and you're fine." And that really upset me a lot.
所以只要你是基督徒，你就会得救，就没事。”这真的让我很沮丧。
I said, "What if we aren't Christians?" She said, "Well, just believe in Jesus and his blood will save you.
我说：“如果我们不是基督徒怎么办？”她说：“好吧，只要相信耶稣，他的血就会拯救你。
Jesus' blood will save you."
耶稣的宝血会拯救你。”
The kids of course picked up on this as well.
孩子们当然也注意到了这一点。
And the idea that their classmate would go to hell was quickly incorporated into the daily teasing.
而他们的同学会下地狱的想法很快就融入到了日常的调侃之中。
But the response of her peers wasn't the real issue anymore.
但她同龄人的反应不再是真正的问题。
Chloe now had bigger problems.
克洛伊现在遇到了更大的问题。
She was afraid that she and her family would burn in hellfire for eternity.
她害怕她和她的家人会在地狱之火中永远燃烧。
Serry says she seemed to become obsessed with this idea.
塞里说她似乎对这个想法着迷。
"Are we going to go to hell if I don't believe Jesus' blood saves me?
“如果我不相信耶稣的宝血拯救了我，我们会下地狱吗？
Are we going to go to hell?"
我们要下地狱吗？”
How often would she ask you if she was going to go to hell?
她多久会问你她是否会下地狱？
Well during the last couple weeks of December, it was pretty much-- it was her focus.
嗯，在 12 月的最后几周，这几乎是她的重点。
She started to get sick, literally physically ill.
她开始生病，实际上是身体上的病。
She would stay home for days at a time.
她有时会在家里呆上好几天。
Serry grew more and more concerned.
塞里越来越担心。
And so over the December break, she set up a meeting with Chloe's teacher and the school's principal.
因此，在十二月的假期里，她安排了一次与克洛伊的老师和学校校长的会面。
Apparently, this meeting didn't go very well.
显然，这次会议进行得并不顺利。
Serry says the teacher seemed defensive and ended up leaving abruptly.
塞里说，这位老师似乎很戒备，最后突然离开了。
Now I should say here that I did contact the school to get their side of the story, but they declined to comment because of a pending civil lawsuit.
现在我应该在这里说，我确实联系了学校以了解他们的说法，但他们因民事诉讼未决而拒绝发表评论。
According to Serry, however, the meeting ended on a somewhat promising note.
然而，塞里表示，会议以某种令人鼓舞的方式结束。
She says she left the school with the distinct impression that the problems between her daughter and her teacher would be addressed.
她说，她离开学校时留下的明显印象是，她女儿和老师之间的问题将会得到解决。
This, however, was not the conclusion presented to Chloe on the morning of her return.
然而，这并不是克洛伊回来的那天早上得到的结论。
Her teacher approached her in front of the class and said, "You need to transfer to a different classroom.
她的老师在全班同学面前走到她面前说：“你需要转到另一个教室。
Since you're so uncomfortable, I think you need to transfer to a different classroom." And Chloe said--
既然你这么不舒服，我想你需要转到另一个教室。”克洛伊说——
"But I'd like to stay here because all my friends are here." And she said "No, but I insist.
“但我想留在这里，因为我所有的朋友都在这里。”她说：“不，但我坚持。
You may go transfer to another classroom."
你可以去别的教室了。”
But then some other children in the class called her "loser Muslim." "Get lost, loser Muslim.
但随后班上的其他一些孩子称她为“失败者穆斯林”。 “滚吧，失败者穆斯林。
We don't want you here.
我们不希望你在这里。
Get lost."
迷路吧。”
And my teacher was just sitting and watching.
我的老师只是坐着观看。
Chloe came home that afternoon and immediately got into bed.
那天下午克洛伊回到家后立即上床睡觉。
She didn't want to go to school the next day, told her mother that she never wanted to go again.
第二天她不想去上学，告诉妈妈她再也不想去上学了。
But the night after she was told to leave, she got a phone call from one of her friends.
但在她被告知离开的第二天晚上，她接到了一位朋友的电话。
Her girlfriend called her and told her she missed her.
她的女朋友打电话给她，告诉她她想念她。
So that helped her to go to school the next day.
这有助于她第二天去上学。
But she went into school, and again the kids said "Well why are you here, loser Muslim?
但她去了学校，孩子们又说：“你为什么在这里，失败的穆斯林？
The teacher told you to leave.
老师叫你离开。
Why are you here?" When she had missed that day before and gone to bed, her teacher had told the class that she was no longer in their class.
你们为什么在这里？”当她前一天错过了上床睡觉时，她的老师告诉全班同学她已经不在他们的班级了。
So when she showed up the next day, the kids wanted to know why she was back.
因此，当她第二天出现时，孩子们想知道她为什么回来。
So all through lunch, and then outside at recess, the kids were following her around, telling her she was a loser and they didn't want her in their class.
因此，整个午餐时间，以及课间休息时，孩子们都在跟着她，告诉她她是个失败者，他们不想让她加入班上。
When I picked her up and brought her home, she was still shaking and crying.
当我抱起她带她回家时，她还在发抖、哭泣。
And nothing, nothing stopped it.
没有什么，没有什么能阻止它。
No amount of hugs, no amount of comforting helped.
再多的拥抱、再多的安慰也无济于事。
And it was so bad the next morning when she got up, the little blood vessels in her face had burst from just sobbing so hard.
第二天早上，当她起床时，情况非常糟糕，她脸上的小血管因为抽泣得太厉害而爆裂了。
And she went to bed, and she didn't get out of bed for five days.
然后她就上床睡觉了，已经五天没有下床了。
It was around this time that Serry's husband also began to go downhill.
大约在这个时候，塞里的丈夫也开始走下坡路。
Serry says that for some reason, watching his daughter's torment seemed to undermine his self-confidence in a way she could never have anticipated.
塞里说，出于某种原因，看着女儿遭受的折磨似乎以一种她从未预料到的方式削弱了他的自信心。
It made him feel helpless.
这让他感到很无助。
He just didn't know how to handle it.
他只是不知道该如何处理。
And he became very depressed, severely depressed.
他变得非常沮丧，非常沮丧。
I mean I would go and run some errands, and then I would come back and I'd find her in bed and then him on the couch, just staring at the ceiling.
我的意思是，我会出去办点事，然后回来，发现她躺在床上，然后他坐在沙发上，只是盯着天花板。
Serry says her husband had never behaved this way before.
塞里说她丈夫以前从未有过这样的行为。
No, no, never.
不，不，从来没有。
He was the kind who would walk into the room and people would just start laughing.
他是那种走进房间，人们就会开始大笑的人。
He had that effect on people.
他对人们有这种影响。
And he changed.
他改变了。
Chloe, like her mother, says she noticed a distinct change in her father during this time.
克洛伊和她的母亲一样，说她注意到父亲在这段时间发生了明显的变化。
She tells me about one sad day that winter, when her father took her and her sisters to the park.
她告诉我那年冬天的一个悲伤的一天，她父亲带她和她的姐妹们去公园。
And I came up to him and I said, "Dad, you want to come play with us?" He said, "Um, maybe later.
我走到他面前说：“爸爸，你想和我们一起玩吗？”他说：“嗯，也许以后吧。
I don't feel so good right now." And that just became his answer to everything.
我现在感觉不太好。”这成了他对一切的答案。
He just sat in front of the TV or he went to bed.
他只是坐在电视机前，或者就去睡觉了。
And I just thought that's not really him.
我只是觉得那不是真正的他。
I think it was because of what was happening in school.
我认为这是因为学校里发生的事情。
Because I think when he was younger, he went through the same thing.
因为我认为他年轻时也经历过同样的事情。
Because over there in Palestine, the Muslims are having trouble.
因为在巴勒斯坦，穆斯林遇到了麻烦。
And I just think he felt bad because I was going through it this time.
我只是觉得他感觉很糟糕，因为我这次也经历了这样的事情。
Because of the strain, Serry and her husband began to fight, long arguments about where they had decided to live and the nature of the country that they had made their home.
由于压力，塞里和她的丈夫开始争吵，就他们决定住在哪里以及他们所居住的国家的性质进行了长时间的争论。
He thought it was a mistake that he had come to America.
他认为他来到美国是一个错误。
And that was difficult for me to hear, because I was the one who brought him to this country.
这对我来说很难听，因为我是把他带到这个国家的人。
And I was one who said our kids would never have to deal with anything like he dealt with.
我曾说过，我们的孩子永远不会遇到像他那样的事情。
And so did you try to convince him, no this isn't really what America is like?
那么你是否试图说服他，不，这并不是美国真正的样子？
Yeah, but it was really difficult to tell him that, when the reality was-- I mean our children, and it wasn't just Chloe anymore.
是的，但要告诉他这一点真的很难，因为现实是——我指的是我们的孩子，而不仅仅是克洛伊。
It was even my other girls.
甚至是我的其他女孩。
Chloe's sister, [?
克洛伊的妹妹，[？
Samia, ?] was punched in the face by the younger brother of one of Chloe's main tormentors.
萨米亚，？] 被克洛伊的主要折磨者之一的弟弟打了一拳。
Then Serry's other daughter admitted that the boys at school had been harassing her.
然后塞里的另一个女儿承认学校里的男孩们一直在骚扰她。
Every day or so after lunch, they would surround her on the playground.
每天午饭后，他们都会在操场上围着她。
They would all point at her and make a motion of unzipping their pants and say, "We're all going to pee on her.
他们都会指着她，做出拉开裤子拉链的动作，然后说：“我们都要在她身上撒尿。
Let's all pee on her."
我们都在她身上撒尿吧。”
But the last straw, as far as Chloe was concerned, happened sometime in late March, the day after she had been transferred against her will to a new classroom.
但对克洛伊来说，最后一根稻草发生在三月下旬的某个时候，也就是她被迫被转移到新教室的第二天。
Walking down the hall, she spied the girl who had been her best friend in her old class, probably the only girl who had really stuck by her through all her trouble.
沿着走廊走去，她发现了那个曾经是她以前班上最好的朋友的女孩，可能是唯一一个真正在她遇到困难时一直陪伴着她的女孩。
But when Chloe waved, the girl didn't respond.
但当克洛伊挥手时，女孩没有回应。
I was just kind of thinking maybe she just didn't see me and hear me.
我只是在想，也许她只是没有看到我，也没有听到我的声音。
But then when I went to lunch, I said hi again.
但当我去吃午饭时，我又打了个招呼。
And I went in front of her and I said hi.
我走到她面前，向她打招呼。
And she turned her head.
她转过头。
And that's when I knew.
那时我就知道了。
Everybody has turned against me.
每个人都反对我。
I dropped out from there.
我从那里退学了。
I stayed home for a long time.
我在家里待了很长时间。
For the rest of her fourth grade year, Chloe was tutored.
在四年级剩下的时间里，克洛伊接受了辅导。
The school found someone to come twice a week.
学校找人每周来两次。
Now I should say that while I was not able to speak to the school about what happened, the US Department of Justice, which eventually got involved in this case, was able to confirm the broad outlines of Chloe and Serry's story, including that the teacher behaved inappropriately by proselytizing during class time in a public school, and that the teacher's behavior towards Chloe contributed to an atmosphere in which Chloe was harassed by her peers.
现在我应该说，虽然我无法向学校讲述所发生的事情，但最终介入此案的美国司法部能够确认克洛伊和塞里故事的大致轮廓，包括老师在公立学校上课时传教的不当行为，以及老师对克洛伊的行为造成了克洛伊受到同龄人骚扰的氛围。
The man that I spoke to at the Justice Department was Eric Treene who supervises cases of religious discrimination.
我在司法部采访的人是埃里克·特里恩（Eric Treene），他负责监督宗教歧视案件。
He told me that Justice first learned about Chloe's case during one of the post 9/11 get-togethers that the department now holds with a variety of Muslim groups.
他告诉我，司法部第一次了解到克洛伊的案件是在 9/11 事件后该部门与各种穆斯林团体举行的一次聚会上。
At one of these meetings, a woman from a Muslim women's group brought up this case and said, well is this the type of case you might be able to do anything about?
在其中一次会议上，一位来自穆斯林妇女团体的妇女提出了这个案件，并说，这种案件你能做点什么吗？
And we said, well yes.
我们说，是的。
We thoroughly investigated the situation.
我们对情况进行了彻底调查。
We believed that certain action, remedial action, was merited here.
我们相信，这里应该采取某些行动，即补救行动。
And we reached an agreement with the school district requiring such remedial action.
我们与学区达成协议，要求采取此类补救措施。
In other words, the school district ended up settling the Justice Department's claims against them.
换句话说，学区最终解决了司法部对他们的索赔。
Now because there was a settlement, the Justice Department can't discuss the details of the case.
现在由于已经达成和解，司法部无法讨论案件的细节。
Can't tell us, for example, which of the allegations made by Serry and Chloe they were able to verify.
例如，无法告诉我们他们能够证实塞里和克洛伊提出的哪些指控。
Treene, however, was able to say this about what the school ultimately agreed to.
然而，特里恩能够说出学校最终同意的内容。
All teachers would receive diversity training, as would all students.
所有教师和所有学生都将接受多元化培训。
And then there would be, for this particular teacher, specific performance goals that had to be met and oversight.
然后，对于这位特定的老师来说，必须满足和监督特定的绩效目标。
And they needed to report to us on both the general program of diversity training, as well as the goals set forth for this particular teacher.
他们需要向我们报告多元化培训的总体计划，以及为这位特定教师设定的目标。
That agreement was reached in March of 2005.
该协议于 2005 年 3 月达成。
But according to Serry, by that time it was too late, way too late.
但据塞里说，到那时已经太晚了，太晚了。
See, during the summer after Chloe's fourth grade year, Serry and her husband decided to transfer all their kids to a different school.
看，在克洛伊四年级后的那个夏天，塞里和她的丈夫决定将所有的孩子转到另一所学校。
She says they wanted to start again.
她说他们想重新开始。
They met with district administrators and asked for a placement in a school where their kids would know that they were safe.
他们会见了地区管理人员，并要求安排在一所学校，让他们的孩子知道他们是安全的。
But in late summer, the district people said that they couldn't offer any absolute assurances that the children wouldn't face harassment.
但在夏末，该地区的人们表示，他们无法绝对保证孩子们不会受到骚扰。
And as far as Serry was concerned, that meant just one thing.
就塞里而言，这只意味着一件事。
The family would have to move.
一家人必须搬家。
She couldn't take another year of turmoil.
她无法再承受一年的动荡。
So over a few weeks' time, we literally packed up, and we pretty much were forced to leave.
所以几周后，我们真的收拾好了行李，几乎被迫离开。
Serry remembers sitting down with her husband to try to figure out whether the family should move east, west, north or south.
塞里记得和她的丈夫坐下来试图弄清楚全家是否应该搬到东、西、北或南。
But her husband had a very different idea.
但她的丈夫却有截然不同的想法。
When it came time for us to move from where we were, he wanted to leave the country, which I couldn't fathom.
当我们要离开原来的地方时，他想要离开这个国家，这是我无法理解的。
And so he wound up leaving us.
所以他最终离开了我们。
He wound up just walking out one day.
有一天，他刚刚走出去。
Serry naturally was devastated.
塞里自然是崩溃了。
She loved her husband.
她爱她的丈夫。
She loves her husband.
她爱她的丈夫。
But she didn't want to move back to the West Bank, and that was the place her husband yearned to go.
但她不想搬回约旦河西岸，而那正是她丈夫渴望去的地方。
He argued that at least everyone in the West Bank had the same problem, was in the same boat.
他认为至少约旦河西岸的每个人都有同样的问题，都在同一条船上。
And for him, that made the difficulties bearable.
对他来说，这让困难变得可以忍受。
In America, he said, you face the same troubles, but you face them alone.
他说，在美国，你面临着同样的麻烦，但你独自面对它们。
Serry didn't see things that way at all.
塞里根本不这么看。
She says that because she grew up in this country, she just had a more subtle reading of what had happened to her family.
她说，因为她在这个国家长大，所以她对发生在她家人身上的事情有了更微妙的解读。
In other words-- well I was born and raised in this country, and I'm aware of what makes this country great, and I know that what happened to our family, it doesn't speak to American values.
换句话说，我在这个国家出生和长大，我知道是什么让这个国家变得伟大，我知道我们家庭发生的事情并不符合美国的价值观。
And I feel like this is such a fluke.
我觉得这真是一个侥幸。
I have to believe this is not what America is about.
我必须相信这不是美国的意义。
I know that.
我知道。
But I don't think that's the same for my husband.
但我不认为这对我丈夫来说是一样的。
I think he came to this country with certain hopes and dreams, and it was pretty much a big letdown.
我认为他带着某些希望和梦想来到这个国家，这几乎是一个很大的失望。
Today, Serry lives alone with her five children in a small apartment about an hour away from her old town.
如今，塞里和她的五个孩子独自住在一套小公寓里，距离她的老城区大约一小时车程。
Instead of being a full time mom, as she was for over a decade, she has two jobs and goes to school at night.
她没有像十多年来那样成为一名全职妈妈，而是有两份工作，晚上还要上学。
This means that she rarely sees her children.
这意味着她很少见到自己的孩子。
To keep up with their lives, she has built a mailbox for the kitchen counter.
为了跟上他们的生活，她在厨房柜台上建了一个邮箱。
She asks her kids to write her letters about their lives, what happened to them during the day, week.
她要求她的孩子们写信，讲述他们的生活，以及他们白天、每周发生的事情。
And then, late at night after they've gone to sleep, she sits alone in her bed and reads them.
然后，深夜他们入睡后，她独自坐在床上阅读它们。
She says that when they don't make her cry, they make her laugh.
她说，当他们不让她哭时，他们就会让她笑。
It's been almost a year since her husband walked out, went to live with a cousin in a distant state while the family tries to figure out what to do.
自从她的丈夫离开，去远方的表弟那里生活已经快一年了，而她的家人却在想办法该怎么办。
Serry says that every night she prays for him to come back to her, but they only talks sporadically.
塞里说，她每天晚上都祈祷他能回到她身边，但他们只是偶尔交谈。
Still, she hasn't changed her feelings about moving to the West Bank or her interpretation of what happened to her children and family.
尽管如此，她并没有改变对搬到约旦河西岸的感受，也没有改变她对孩子和家人遭遇的解释。
I have to believe this was a fluke.
我不得不相信这是一个侥幸。
I have to.
我必须这样做。
Otherwise, it's really hard to keep moving forward.
不然真的很难继续前进。
But I also think it's a sign of our times.
但我也认为这是我们这个时代的标志。
It's happening all across America.
美国各地都在发生这种事。
It's not just happening in our little town here.
这不仅仅发生在我们这里的小镇。
We hear stories of different things going on in schools, and places of employment, and public places, in restaurants.
我们听到学校、工作场所、公共场所、餐馆里发生的不同事情的故事。
From his post at the Justice Department, Eric Treene, in his own way, has seen the same thing.
埃里克·特里恩（Eric Treene）在司法部任职期间，以自己的方式看到了同样的情况。
There's been a dramatic rise in hate crimes since 9/11 against Muslims, Arabs, Sikhs, who are often mistaken as being Muslim, and South Asians.
自 9/11 事件以来，针对穆斯林、阿拉伯人、经常被误认为穆斯林的锡克教徒和南亚人的仇恨犯罪急剧增加。
And sometimes people with dark skin, such as a Portuguese man, just because they're perceived to be Arab or Muslim.
有时，深色皮肤的人，例如葡萄牙男子，只是因为他们被认为是阿拉伯人或穆斯林。
In fact, says Treene, since 9/11, one in five of the complaints reviewed by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission involves a case of discrimination against Muslims.
特里恩说，事实上，自 9/11 以来，平等就业机会委员会审查的投诉中有五分之一涉及歧视穆斯林的案件。
That number, one in five, is of course totally out of proportion to the number of Muslims that live in America.
这个数字是五分之一，当然与居住在美国的穆斯林人数完全不成比例。
As for Chloe, she's now happy in her new school, and so far hasn't encountered any problems.
至于Chloe，她现在在新学校过得很开心，到目前为止还没有遇到任何问题。
She's even gone back to being Muslim.
她甚至又变回了穆斯林。
I pray and occasionally will go to the mosque and everything.
我祈祷，偶尔会去清真寺什么的。
And we celebrated Ramadan.
我们庆祝了斋月。
And how did that feel?
那感觉如何？
Chloe It felt good.
克洛伊 感觉很好。
But, she says, she never acknowledges her religion to her new friends, or really to anyone at her new school.
但是，她说，她从不向新朋友或新学校的任何人承认自己的宗教信仰。
It just wouldn't be a good idea, she tells me.
她告诉我，这不是一个好主意。
We're still going through war and everything, and it's just so a bad time.
我们仍在经历战争和一切，这真是一个糟糕的时期。
Alix Spiegel in Washington, DC.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔在华盛顿特区。
Coming up, now a quick word from our friendly sponsor, who happens to be the world's only superpower.
接下来是我们友好的赞助商的简短介绍，他恰好是世界上唯一的超级大国。
How to explain America in 30 seconds on television to people far, far away.
如何在电视上用 30 秒的时间向远方的人们解释美国。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life from Ira Glass.
这就是艾拉·格拉斯的《美国生活》。
Each week on our program we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Shouting Across the Divide, stories of Muslims and non-Muslims trying to communicate with each other, and running into some difficulty sometimes doing that.
今天的节目《跨越鸿沟呼喊》讲述了穆斯林和非穆斯林试图相互沟通，但有时会遇到一些困难的故事。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, America the Ad Campaign.
第二幕，美国广告活动。
Not long after September 11, as the United States started to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan, there came to be a great interest in this country in bolstering America's image abroad among people who did not seem to see us the way that we see ourselves.
9 月 11 日之后不久，当美国开始与阿富汗的塔利班作战时，人们对这个国家产生了极大的兴趣，希望在那些似乎与我们不同的人眼中提升美国的形象。
We wanted to change that.
我们想改变这一点。
And one man who got swept up in that effort was one of our regular contributors here at our radio show, Shalom Auslander.
其中一位热衷于这项工作的人是我们广播节目 Shalom Auslander 的定期撰稿人之一。
Here he is.
他在这里。
I worked for an advertising agency in New York City.
我在纽约市的一家广告公司工作。
A major soft drink company needed some commercials for the urban youth market.
一家大型软饮料公司需要一些针对城市年轻人市场的广告。
This meant black kids.
这意味着黑人孩子。
They wanted a magic liquid campaign.
他们想要一场神奇的液体运动。
This meant that someone in the commercial would drink the soda and become magically transformed.
这意味着广告中的某个人喝了苏打水后会发生神奇的转变。
The unhappy would become happy.
不快乐的人会变得快乐。
The stupid would become smart.
愚蠢的人会变得聪明。
The unpopular would become beloved.
不受欢迎的人会变得受人喜爱。
I showed them some commercials a week later.
一周后我给他们看了一些广告。
One commercial took place at a swimming pool where the kids were unhappy.
一则广告在游泳池里播放，孩子们对此感到不高兴。
Then they drank the soda.
然后他们喝了苏打水。
Then they were happy.
然后他们就很高兴了。
A long, uncomfortable silence filled the room.
房间里充满了长时间的、令人不安的沉默。
Finally, the chief creative director spoke.
最后，首席创意总监发言。
"Do black kids swim?" he asked.
“黑人孩子会游泳吗？”他问道。
A long debate followed.
随后进行了长时间的辩论。
I hated my job.
我讨厌我的工作。
Three months after 9/11, a meeting was held in the chief creative director's office.
9/11事件发生三个月后，首席创意总监办公室召开了一次会议。
America had an image problem in the Muslim world, and the State Department had asked a number of advertising agencies to help fix it.
美国在穆斯林世界中存在形象问题，国务院已要求多家广告公司帮助解决这个问题。
Our agency was one of them.
我们的机构就是其中之一。
"It wasn't just a chance to help the country," said the chief creative director, "it was a chance to help earn some positive PR for the agency by doing something good." As he spoke the word good, he made quotation marks in the air with his fingers.
“这不仅仅是一个帮助国家的机会，”首席创意总监说，“这也是一个通过做好事为该机构赢得一些积极公关的机会。”当他说出“好”这个词时，他用手指在空中画了引号。
Nobody wanted to work on it.
没有人愿意参与其中。
There were a half dozen senior creative directors below the chief creative director, each of whom was responsible for his or her own accounts.
首席创意总监以下有六名高级创意总监，每个人对自己的账户负责。
Their job performance, salaries, and raises were evaluated in terms of how much money their accounts made or lost over the course of the year.
他们的工作表现、工资和加薪是根据他们的账户在这一年中赚了多少钱或亏了多少钱来评估的。
"I don't have time for this pro bono crap," said one.
“我没有时间做这种无偿的废话，”其中一位说道。
"I mean, I'd love to help, but my software client is up my wazoo with a pitch fork." Others nodded.
“我的意思是，我很乐意帮忙，但我的软件客户端让我大吃一惊。”其他人也点点头。
"Are they doing TV?" asked one.
“他们在拍电视吗？”一位问道。
"It's possible," said the chief creative director, "but it won't run in this country." Everyone groaned.
“有可能，”首席创意总监说，“但它不会在这个国家运行。”所有人都在呻吟。
If the ads didn't air on American television, then they weren't eligible for American advertising awards shows.
如果这些广告没有在美国电视上播出，那么它们就没有资格参加美国广告颁奖典礼。
Most of the creative directors bailed.
大多数创意总监都放弃了。
I was a freelancer at the time, a hired gun.
那时我是一名自由职业者，一名雇佣兵。
I worked on whatever they told me to work on.
他们让我做什么我就做什么。
The briefing would be later that afternoon.
简报会将于当天下午晚些时候举行。
The chief creative director followed me out the door.
首席创意总监跟着我出了门。
"Don't let this interfere with the soda account," he said.
“不要让这干扰苏打水账户，”他说。
"We really have to nail that."
“我们真的必须解决这个问题。”
I decided to get some lunch.
我决定去吃午饭。
A message was waiting for me when I returned.
当我回来时，有一条消息在等我。
The account director on Project Dialogue had phoned.
对话项目的客户总监打来电话。
That was the code name for the brand America account, Project Dialogue.
这是美国帐户“Project Dialogue”品牌的代号。
I phoned her back.
我给她回了电话。
"Do you need an Arab?" she asked.
“你需要一个阿拉伯人吗？”她问道。
"Hello?" "Do you need an Arab?" "I don't need an Arab." "OK" "Thanks though." "If you need one, let me know.
“喂？” “你需要一个阿拉伯人吗？” “我不需要阿拉伯人。” “好吧”“不过还是谢谢了。” “如果你需要一个，请告诉我。
We can get you one." "I'm good."
我们可以给你买一个。” “我很好。”
I took a bite of my chicken sandwich, and flipped through the newspapers and magazines that had collected on my desk.
我咬了一口鸡肉三明治，翻阅了桌上的报纸和杂志。
Advertizing Age had a cover story on why it's so hard to cram the benefits of brand USA into a 30-second spot and what might work.
《广告时代》有一个封面故事，讲述了为什么很难将美国品牌的优势塞进 30 秒的广告中，以及什么可能有效。
They had interviewed famous creative directors across the nation.
他们采访了全国著名的创意总监。
"You have to infiltrate their lives," said one.
“你必须渗透他们的生活，”其中一位说。
"You set up events.
“你安排了活动。
You show them movies." He suggested Boogie Nights.
你给他们看电影。”他推荐了《不羁之夜》。
The Project Dialogue briefing was supposed to begin at 3:00, but trouble on an international cosmetics account pushed it back to 4:00.
项目对话简报会原定于 3:00 开始，但国际化妆品账户出现问题将其推迟到 4:00。
And news of a possible fast-food pitch pushed it back again until 5:00.
有关可能进行快餐宣传的消息又将其推迟到 5:00。
Finally, at 5:45, the creative director arrived.
终于，5点45分，创意总监来了。
He glanced at his watch.
他看了一眼手表。
"Christ almighty," he said.
“全能的基督，”他说。
"Let's get this over with."
“让我们把这件事结束吧。”
The lights dimmed and the Powerpoint presentation began.
灯光变暗，PowerPoint 演示开始。
As with any other target audience, Muslims had been divided into a few different groups.
与任何其他目标受众一样，穆斯林被分为几个不同的群体。
Likely to agree, the moderate Muslims.
温和派穆斯林可能会同意这一点。
Unlikely to agree, the radical Muslims.
激进的穆斯林不太可能同意这一点。
And the undecideds.
还有那些犹豫不决的人。
A red arrow appeared beside the word "undecideds" and began to flash.
“未定”字样旁边出现了一个红色箭头，并且开始闪烁。
"This," said the strategic planner, "is our sweet spot."
“这，”战略规划者说，“是我们的最佳选择。”
A few slides later, the undecideds were further broken down into three more subgroups.
几张幻灯片之后，犹豫不决的人被进一步分为三个小组。
The hero worshipers, the economic hopefuls, and the future seekers, each of which was divided again into another three groups, all nine of which would require their own distinct form of messaging.
英雄崇拜者、经济希望者和未来探索者，每一者又被分为另外三组，所有九组都需要自己独特的信息传递形式。
"What's the message?" someone asked.
“消息是什么？”有人问。
"We don't know," answered the strategic planner.
“我们不知道，”战略规划者回答道。
"Do they like humor?" someone asked.
“他们喜欢幽默吗？”有人问。
"We don't know." "Do they trust commercials?" "We don't know." "Are there any commercials they do like?" "We don't know?" "Is a direct approach the best?" "No." "How will they react to an indirect approach?" "Badly."
“我们不知道。” “他们相信广告吗？” “我们不知道。” “有他们喜欢的广告吗？” “我们不知道？” “直接的方法是最好的吗？” “不。” “他们对间接方法有何反应？” “糟糕。”
For a group of people setting out to convince another group of people how much we had in common, we didn't seem to know the first thing about them.
对于一群人要让另一群人相信我们有多少共同点，我们似乎并不了解他们的第一件事。
And I was no exception.
我也不例外。
The only footage I had ever seen of Afghanistan was of madrassas.
我见过的关于阿富汗的唯一镜头是伊斯兰学校。
Row after row of children rocking back and forth reciting passages loudly from the Koran, a sight so eerily similar to the childhood I'd spent locked up like a veal in an orthodox Jewish yeshiva that I wanted to bomb the place myself.
一排又一排的孩子来回摇晃，大声背诵《古兰经》中的段落，这种景象与我童年时的情景极其相似，我像小牛肉一样被锁在正统的犹太犹太教堂里，我真想亲自炸毁这个地方。
The strategic planner told us that basic messaging concepts were still being tested in focus groups in Egypt and Jordan.
战略规划者告诉我们，基本的信息传递概念仍在埃及和约旦的焦点小组中进行测试。
And we wouldn't have the final strategy until the following afternoon.
直到第二天下午我们才会得出最终的策略。
The basic function, though, of all communications would be to convince the Muslim world that we all wanted a better life, and that freedom and democracy were the best ways of achieving those desires.
然而，所有沟通的基本功能是让穆斯林世界相信我们都想要更好的生活，而自由和民主是实现这些愿望的最佳方式。
I realized that if you switched freedom and democracy with cool and refreshing, it was pretty much the same strategy as the one I'd been given for selling soda to African American kids.
我意识到，如果你用清凉和清爽来代替自由和民主，这与我向非洲裔美国孩子出售苏打水的策略几乎相同。
But I thought it might be best to bring this up after the meeting.
但我认为最好在会后提出这个问题。
"So what do you think?" the creative director asked me after the meeting.
“那你觉得怎么样？”创意总监会后问我。
"I think it's the same strategy as the soda account." "How is that going?" he asked.
“我认为这与汽水账户的策略相同。” “怎么样？”他问道。
"Good," I said.
“很好，”我说。
"I've been thinking.
“我一直在想。
What if we change it from a swimming pool to a picnic." He thought about that for a moment before frowning and shaking his head.
如果我们把它从游泳池改成野餐会怎么样？”他想了一会儿，然后皱着眉头摇了摇头。
"No good?" I asked.
“不好？”我问。
He continued shaking his head.
他继续摇头。
"Black kids don't have picnics?" I asked.
“黑人孩子不去野餐吗？”我问。
"More urban," he said, "you know, like fire hydrants." "Fire hydrants?" "Yeah," he said "you know, when they open the fire hydrants.
“更加城市化，”他说，“你知道，就像消防栓一样。” “消防栓？” “是的，”他说，“你知道，当他们打开消防栓时。
When it's hot." "Sure," I said.
天热的时候。” “当然，”我说。
"When it's hot."
“天热的时候。”
I assumed we would cut before the cops came and started beating the kids with their night sticks.
我以为我们会在警察到来并开始用警棍殴打孩子们之前停下来。
He nodded, growing increasingly pleased with his idea.
他点点头，对自己的想法越来越满意。
"I like that," he said.
“我喜欢这样，”他说。
"A bunch of kids in their bathing suits, jumping around a fire hydrant.
“一群穿着泳衣的孩子在消防栓周围跳来跳去。
We'll get somebody good to direct it.
我们会找个好人来指导它。
That could be nice, don't you think?" I nodded.
那可能很好，你不觉得吗？”我点点头。
"Do black kids have bathing suits?" I asked.
“黑人小孩有泳衣吗？”我问。
"I mean, if they don't swim?" "I like that," he ignored me.
“我是说，如果他们不会游泳呢？” “我喜欢这样。”他不理我。
"I like that a lot.
“我非常喜欢这样。
"Write a few more like that, will you?" "Sure," I said.
“你再写几个这样的，好吗？” “当然，”我说。
"How's Friday?" "How's tomorrow?" he asked.
“星期五怎么样？” “明天怎么样？”他问道。
"Tomorrow," I said, "no problem."
“明天，”我说，“没问题。”
The following morning I was sitting in my office writing commercials about black kids and fire hydrants when there was a knock on my door.
第二天早上，我正坐在办公室里写关于黑人孩子和消防栓的广告，这时有人敲门。
I looked up to see a man roughly my age with dark skin, slicked back hair, and a drawing pad.
我抬头看到一个与我年龄相仿的男人，皮肤黝黑，头发梳得光滑，手里拿着一个画板。
"Shalom?" he asked.
“沙洛姆？”他问道。
"I'm Sabhi." I rose and shook his hand.
“我是萨比。”我站起来和他握手。
"You must be the Arab," I said.
“你一定是阿拉伯人，”我说。
"I'm the Jew."
“我是犹太人。”
Sabhi was from Lebanon where he had studied graphic arts at the University of Beirut.
萨比来自黎巴嫩，曾在贝鲁特大学学习平面艺术。
I asked him what life was like there, how people felt about America, how they felt about their lives and their future.
我问他那里的生活怎么样，人们对美国的感受如何，他们对自己的生活和未来有何感受。
He told me there was a lot of anger and a lot of frustration.
他告诉我，当时有很多愤怒和沮丧。
There were economic problems, governmental problems, social problems.
有经济问题、政府问题、社会问题。
I asked him what the cause of the problems might be.
我问他问题的原因可能是什么。
He told me it was the Jews.
他告诉我那是犹太人。
"The Jews?" I asked.
“犹太人？”我问。
"The Israelis," he said.
“以色列人，”他说。
He explained that according to Islamic legend, the prophet Mohammed said they would never be peace in the Muslim world until three cities were under Muslim rule.
他解释说，根据伊斯兰传说，先知穆罕默德说，除非三座城市处于穆斯林统治之下，否则穆斯林世界永远不会和平。
They currently had Mecca and Medina, but Jerusalem was still controlled by the Jews.
他们目前拥有麦加和麦地那，但耶路撒冷仍然由犹太人控制。
"The Jews?" I asked.
“犹太人？”我问。
"The Israelis," he said.
“以色列人，”他说。
"And so," he added, "that's why there can be no peace for Muslims."
“因此，”他补充道，“这就是为什么穆斯林不可能有和平。”
An awkward silence followed and an unexpected disappointment overcame me.
接下来是一阵尴尬的沉默，一种意想不到的失望袭上了我的心头。
I realize that as naive as it might have been to think that advertising could solve these century-old problems, a small part of me, and a large part of the US government, hoped that it could.
我意识到，尽管认为广告可以解决这些百年问题的想法可能很天真，但我的一小部分人和美国政府的很大一部分人都希望它能做到。
That something, anything, might be said or filmed or edited into a 30-second TV commercial that would undo all that had been so horribly done, and that would avoid all the bad that seemed so certain to come in the future.
任何事情，任何事情，都可以被说出、拍摄或编辑成一个 30 秒的电视广告，这将消除所有已经发生的如此可怕的事情，并且将避免未来似乎肯定会发生的所有坏事。
Unfortunately, I was raised with orthodox religion.
不幸的是，我是在正统宗教的熏陶下长大的。
And the minute I hear people talking about prophets and holy cities, I lose all hope.
当我听到人们谈论先知和圣城时，我就失去了所有希望。
That, combined with yesterday's discussion about whether black people swim, and if they do, whether or not they own bathing suits, had caused me to wonder whether we could ever understand the person living right beside us, let alone people on the other side of the world.
再加上昨天关于黑人是否游泳、是否游泳、是否拥有泳衣的讨论，让我想知道我们是否能够理解生活在我们身边的人，更不用说世界另一端的人了。
"Well, you've got Mecca and Medina," I offered Sabhi.
“好吧，你已经有了麦加和麦地那，”我向萨比说道。
"Two out of three isn't bad." He kind of laughed.
“三分之二也不错。”他有点笑了。
I kind of laughed back.
我有点笑了。
Then he left.
然后他就离开了。
The telephone rang.
电话响了。
"How did it go?" asked the account director.
“怎么样？”客户总监问道。
"Fine," I said.
“好吧，”我说。
"Was it helpful?" "Very," I said.
“有帮助吗？” “非常，”我说。
"Should I get you another one?" she asked.
“需要我再给你拿一份吗？”她问道。
The focus groups in Jordan and Egypt had not been very helpful.
约旦和埃及的焦点小组并没有多大帮助。
The moderator had shown a number of different boards to a number of different Arab men ages 18 to 34.
主持人向许多年龄在 18 岁到 34 岁之间的不同阿拉伯男性展示了许多不同的图板。
The first board read, "Children deserve a happy future.
第一个牌上写着：“孩子们应该拥有幸福的未来。
And in order to have a happy future, people must be free." "Do you agree with this statement?" asked the moderator.
而为了拥有幸福的未来，人们必须是自由的。”“你同意这个说法吗？”主持人问道。
Everyone nodded.
众人都点头。
"But we don't have freedom," said one, "because of Israel." Everyone nodded.
“但我们没有自由，”其中一位说，“因为以色列。”众人都点头。
The moderator held up a second board.
主持人举起第二块板。
"We all deserve happiness," read the board, "and part of happiness is having the freedom to pursue your business and economic dreams." Everyone nodded.
董事会上写道：“我们都值得幸福，而幸福的一部分就是能够自由地追求你的商业和经济梦想。”众人都点头。
"We could pursue our economic dreams," said one, "if it weren't for Israel." This continued for some time.
一位人士表示：“如果没有以色列，我们可以追求我们的经济梦想。”这种情况持续了一段时间。
It continued with women age 18 to 34.
18 岁至 34 岁的女性中也存在这种情况。
It continued with men age 35 to 50.
这种情况在 35 岁至 50 岁的男性中继续存在。
It continued with women age 35 to 50.
35 岁至 50 岁的女性中也存在这种情况。
"Were they all like that?" I asked the strategic planner.
“他们都是这样吗？”我问了战略规划者。
He nodded.
他点点头。
"What are you going to do?" I asked.
“你要做什么？”我问。
"Get off this goddamn assignment," he said.
“摆脱这个该死的任务，”他说。
There was a four o'clock meeting later that afternoon for me to present my new soda commercials.
那天下午晚些时候，我召开了四点钟的会议，展示我的新苏打水广告。
I made my way to the creative director's office a few minutes early and asked if I could speak with him.
我提前几分钟到达创意总监办公室，询问是否可以与他交谈。
"I can't work on this America thing," I told him.
“我不能从事美国的事情，”我告诉他。
"Why not?" he asked.
“为什么不呢？”他问道。
"Did you come up with anything?" "I've got a slogan," I told him.
“你想出什么办法了吗？” “我有一个口号，”我告诉他。
"Two out of three ain't bad.
“三分之二还不错。
It's about the holy cities."
这是关于圣城的。”
On the television behind his desk, Geraldo Rivera was reporting from Tora Bora.
杰拉尔多·里维拉（Geraldo Rivera）在办公桌后面的电视上正在报道来自托拉博拉（Tora Bora）的情况。
"We want Osama bin Laden behind bars," said Geraldo.
“我们希望乌萨马·本·拉登入狱，”杰拉尔多说。
"Or six feet under.
“或者六英尺以下。
Or maybe just one foot under.
或者也许只是一英尺以下。
Or maybe just a pile of ash." They cut back to Laurie Dhue in the studio.
或者也许只是一堆灰烬。”他们切回录音室里的 Laurie Dhue。
"Well said Geraldo," said Laurie Dhue.
“杰拉尔多说得好，”劳里·杜说。
The creative director sighed and shook his head.
创意总监叹了口气，摇了摇头。
"It's hopeless, isn't it?" he said.
“没希望了，不是吗？”他说。
"Mankind?" I asked.
“人类？”我问。
"Yes," I said, "it is."
“是的，”我说，“确实如此。”
We went into the conference room and I presented my black kids around a fire hydrant commercial.
我们走进会议室，我带着我的黑人孩子们参观了消防栓广告。
For the next 20 minutes, 15 Caucasian people sat around a long, oak table discussing whether or not fire hydrants were racist.
接下来的 20 分钟里，15 名白人围坐在一张橡木长桌旁讨论消防栓是否存在种族主义。
And if they weren't, would black kids have bathing suits, given that they don't swim?
如果不是的话，考虑到黑人孩子不会游泳，他们会穿泳衣吗？
I still hated my job, but at least I was off the America thing.
我仍然讨厌我的工作，但至少我不再关心美国了。
Within a few months, everyone was off it.
几个月之内，每个人都放弃了它。
After dozens of focus groups and tens of thousands of dollars, the only conclusion anyone could reach regarding the question of how to speak to Muslims was that nobody had any idea how to speak to Muslims.
经过数十个焦点小组和数万美元之后，关于如何与穆斯林交谈的问题，任何人都能得出的唯一结论是，没有人知道如何与穆斯林交谈。
It wasn't long before the department within the State Department that had been charged with this assignment was dismantled.
不久之后，国务院内负责这项任务的部门就被解散了。
A few projects survived.
一些项目幸存下来。
Some radio stations were jammed.
一些广播电台受到干扰。
Some leaflets were dropped.
一些传单被扔下。
Then Iraq was invaded.
然后伊拉克被入侵。
Then Shiites began killing Sunnis.
然后什叶派开始屠杀逊尼派。
Then Sunnis began killing Shiites.
然后逊尼派开始屠杀什叶派。
Maybe it was naive, but five years ago when all this was happening, someone said, let's talk to Muslims.
也许这很天真，但五年前，当这一切发生时，有人说，让我们和穆斯林谈谈吧。
Lately, more and more people are saying, let's not.
最近，越来越多的人说，我们不要这样。
Let's let Iran talk to them.
让我们让伊朗跟他们谈谈吧。
Let's let Syria talk to them.
让我们让叙利亚与他们谈谈。
Let's let the Muslims talk to themselves.
让我们让穆斯林自言自语吧。
My fire hydrant commercials never ran either.
我的消防栓广告也从未播放过。
In the end, it was felt that the fire hydrants might be perceived as racist.
最后，人们认为消防栓可能会被视为种族主义。
And they were replaced in the script with swimming pools and diving boards, scripts a moderator then showed to a roomful of African Americans age 16 to 21.
剧本中的这些内容被游泳池和跳水板取代，然后主持人向一屋子 16 至 21 岁的非裔美国人展示了剧本。
"Do you like these commercials?" the moderator asked.
“你喜欢这些广告吗？”主持人问道。
Everyone frowned.
所有人都皱起了眉头。
"Black kids don't swim," said the African Americans age 16 to 21.
“黑人孩子不会游泳，”16 岁至 21 岁的非裔美国人说。
Someone suggested the location should be more urban, a city perhaps, maybe a fire hydrant.
有人建议地点应该更城市化，也许是一座城市，也许是一个消防栓。
The moderator nodded.
主持人点点头。
A few weeks later, the project was reassigned to an African American agency.
几周后，该项目被重新分配给一家非裔美国人机构。
It was thought best that they talked to themselves.
人们认为最好的办法是他们自言自语。
Shalom Auslander.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德.
He's the author of a book of short stories called Beware of God.
他是一本名为《当心上帝》的短篇小说集的作者。
A new book about his own very strict religious upbringing comes out next year.
一本关于他自己非常严格的宗教教养的新书将于明年出版。
Our program was produced today by Alix Spiegel and myself with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由阿利克斯·斯皮格尔和我本人以及亚历克斯·布隆伯格、黛安·库克、简·菲尔特斯、莎拉·科尼格、丽莎·波拉克和南希·厄普代克共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Seth Lind and Cathy Hoang.
Seth Lind 和 Cathy Hoang 为制作提供帮助。
Music help from Jessica Hopper.
杰西卡·霍珀的音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia.
[资金来源] Torey Malatia 先生对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督。
You know he just invited me to his house party for the weekend.
你知道他刚刚邀请我参加他的周末家庭聚会。
A bunch of kids in their bathing suits, jumping around a fire hydrant.
一群穿着泳衣的孩子在消防栓周围跳来跳去。
That could be nice, don't you think?
那可能很好，你不觉得吗？
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。