317: Unconditional Love - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #317 | March 8, 2019 317: Unconditional Love Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 317 集 | 2019 年 3 月 8 日 317：无条件的爱 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And let's head back in time-- back to when being on TV meant you sort of half-shouted every single thing you said.
让我们回到过去——回到在电视上意味着你所说的每一句话都半喊出来的时候。
This is the primate laboratory at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.
这是威斯康星大学麦迪逊分校的灵长类动物实验室。
The year is 1960.
时间是1960年。
Harry Harlow In this laboratory, there are approximately 120 rhesus monkeys-- the subject of a study that wants to know the answer to the question, what is an infant's love for its mother?
哈里·哈洛 (Harry Harlow) 在这个实验室里，大约有 120 只恒河猴，这是一项研究的对象，想要知道婴儿对母亲的爱是什么？
Now, the reason there even was a study asking this very basic question, back when CBS Television took a camera crew to Wisconsin-- well, that is actually the kind of thing that most of us today would find sort of surprising.
现在，当哥伦比亚广播公司(CBS)电视台带着摄制组前往威斯康星州时，甚至有一项研究提出了这个非常基本的问题——嗯，这实际上是我们今天大多数人都会感到惊讶的事情。
You see, the researcher that they're filming-- a guy named Harry Harlow, was trying to prove-- I know this is going to sound crazy-- he was trying to prove that love is an important thing that happens between parents and children.
你看，他们正在拍摄的研究人员——一个名叫哈里·哈洛的人，试图证明——我知道这听起来很疯狂——他试图证明爱是发生在父母和孩子之间的重要事情。
And the reason why he felt the need to prove this point was, at the time-- and, again, I know this is going to sound kind of out there-- the psychological establishment, pediatricians, even the federal government were all saying exactly the opposite of that to parents.
他觉得有必要证明这一点的原因是，当时——而且，我知道这听起来有点像——心理机构、儿科医生，甚至联邦政府都在向父母说完全相反的事情。
It's actually one of those things that you say, how could they have thought that?
这实际上是你说的那些事情之一，他们怎么会想到呢？
But psychology just didn't believe in love.
但心理学就是不相信爱情。
And if you go back and you pull any of the psychology textbooks, really almost pre-1950, you don't even find it in the index because it was not a word that was used.
如果你回去翻阅任何一本 1950 年之前的心理学教科书，你甚至在索引中都找不到它，因为它不是一个被使用过的词。
This is Deborah Blum, the biographer of this renegade researcher, Harry Harlow.
这是黛博拉·布鲁姆，这位叛逆的研究员哈里·哈洛的传记作者。
She writes about how psychologists at the time actually saw loving behavior towards children as a problem, a menace.
她写道，当时的心理学家实际上是如何将对待孩子的爱行为视为一个问题、一种威胁。
At one point, the head of the American Psychological Association declared, "When you're tempted to pet your child, remember that mother love is a dangerous instrument."
美国心理学会会长曾一度宣称：“当你想抚摸你的孩子时，请记住，母爱是一种危险的工具。”
Yeah, that was John Watson.
是的，那是约翰·沃森。
And he actually said there are serious rocks ahead for the over-kissed child, and then defined over-kissing as kissing your child more than once a year.
他实际上说，过度亲吻的孩子面临着严重的困难，然后将过度亲吻定义为每年亲吻你的孩子一次以上。
Wow.
哇。
Deborah Blum I mean, that was the message of almost everything.
黛博拉·布鲁姆（Deborah Blum）我的意思是，这就是几乎所有事情的信息。
Yeah.
是的。
At some point, there are government pamphlets, you write, that are warning parents not to touch their children, and you quote some.
你写道，在某些时候，有一些政府小册子警告父母不要碰他们的孩子，你引用了一些小册子。
One says, "Never kiss a baby, especially on the mouth.
有人说：“永远不要亲吻婴儿，尤其是嘴。
Don't rock or play with children."
不要与儿童一起摇晃或玩耍。”
Yeah.
是的。
Not to say that everyone follows what so-called experts do, right?
并不是说大家都跟着所谓的专家做事吧？
But, certainly, you had an enormous effect of this affection is wrong, love isn't real-- trust us, we're scientists-- that greatly shaped those kind of perceptions.
但是，当然，你对这种感情产生了巨大的影响，这是错误的，爱不是真实的——相信我们，我们是科学家——这极大地塑造了这种看法。
How is this possible?
这怎么可能？
Well, first of all, psychology was still pretty young, and psychologists hadn't figured out how to measure love, how to quantify it, talk about it in a scientific way.
嗯，首先，心理学还很年轻，心理学家还没有弄清楚如何衡量爱，如何量化它，如何以科学的方式谈论它。
So the thinking about love's role was incredibly crude.
所以对爱的角色的思考是极其粗鲁的。
And at the same time-- this is all at the beginning of the early 20th century-- medicine was still figuring out how bacteria spread infections.
与此同时——这一切都发生在 20 世纪初——医学界仍在研究细菌如何传播感染。
And pediatricians had noticed that, in hospitals, the kids who were picked up a lot by nurses seemed to get more infections.
儿科医生注意到，在医院里，经常被护士接走的孩子似乎受到更多感染。
So doctors were saying, don't pick up your child, don't pick up your child, don't pick up your child.
所以医生说，不要接你的孩子，不要接你的孩子，不要接你的孩子。
So you had a kind of confluence going there.
所以你去那里有一种融合。
You had pediatricians saying, we're telling you for health reasons that you should never cuddle your child or indulge them.
儿科医生说，出于健康原因，我们告诉您，您永远不应该拥抱您的孩子或纵容他们。
And guess what?
你猜怎么着？
Psychology says if you follow those rules, if you show your child no affection, you will make them a better human being.
心理学说，如果你遵守这些规则，如果你不向你的孩子表现出任何感情，你会让他们成为一个更好的人。
So back off.
所以退后吧。
And this is the way it was for decades, until about the 1940s.
几十年来一直如此，直到 20 世纪 40 年代左右。
Health care workers started to notice that some children in hospitals, in orphanages, who were treated this way never picked up, never loved, would wither and die-- literally die.
医护人员开始注意到，医院、孤儿院中的一些儿童如果受到这种方式的对待，永远不会被接走，也不会被爱，他们会枯萎死亡——真正的死亡。
But even this did not change the opinion of the psychological establishment.
但即便如此，也没有改变心理学界的观点。
So enter Harry Harlow.
因此，哈利·哈洛登场。
He sets out to prove that love is important-- in fact, love is a key to normal development in children-- and that what bonds babies and mothers is more than just the baby's need for food.
他着手证明爱的重要性——事实上，爱是儿童正常发育的关键——而将婴儿和母亲联系在一起的不仅仅是婴儿对食物的需求。
Now this is what we tried.
现在这就是我们尝试过的。
The responses of the baby monkey are very similar to those of the human babies.
小猴子的反应与人类婴儿的反应非常相似。
This is Harry Harlow on CBS in 1960.
这是 1960 年哥伦比亚广播公司 (CBS) 的哈里·哈洛 (Harry Harlow)。
In the cage with the baby monkey are two dolls.
小猴子的笼子里有两个娃娃。
We constructed two substitute mothers.
我们构造了两个替代母亲。
They have absolute patience.
他们有绝对的耐心。
They are available 24 hours a day.
他们全天 24 小时为您服务。
The mother hits the baby with love.
母亲用爱打婴儿。
What he did is he gave them two alternative dummy mothers.
他所做的是给了他们两个替代的假妈妈。
One was a wire mother with an ugly face, and one was a cloth mother.
一个是脸色难看的铁丝妈妈，一个是布妈妈。
She had sort of a fluffy terry cloth body.
她有一种蓬松的毛圈布身体。
These are the only mothers these babies ever had.
这是这些婴儿唯一的母亲。
And in the simplest experiment, baby monkey would be put in a cage with both mothers, but wire mother had the milk.
在最简单的实验中，小猴会和两个妈妈一起关在笼子里，但线妈妈有牛奶。
So by all the theories, the baby should bond to wire mother, because she's feeding him.
因此，根据所有理论，婴儿应该与线妈妈建立联系，因为她正在喂养他。
Here's Baby 106.
这是宝贝106。
Watch.
观看。
Ira Glass The little baby monkey-- which, by the way, is the most insanely cute thing you have ever seen-- scampers under the wire mother, which is like a wire, mesh cylinder with a boxy head and eyes, apparently made from a billiard ball.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 小猴子——顺便说一下，这是你见过的最可爱的东西——在铁丝妈妈下面蹦蹦跳跳，铁丝妈妈就像一个金属丝网状圆柱体，有一个方形的头和眼睛，显然是用台球制成的。
The monkey sucks from a bottle that comes out of its chest, and then it runs to cuddle with the other mother.
猴子从胸口出来的瓶子里吮吸，然后跑去拥抱另一位母亲。
Oh, he's going back.
哦，他要回去了。
He's back on the cloth mother, and he'll stay on the cloth mother.
他又回到了布母身上，并且他将留在布母身上。
Actually, this baby spends 17 to 18 hours a day on the cloth mother, and less than one hour a day on the wire mother.
实际上，这个宝宝每天在布妈妈身上待的时间有17到18个小时，而在钢丝妈妈身上每天的时间还不到1个小时。
The monkey rubs itself against the cloth doll until it seems to get some solace from it, and then it relaxes.
猴子在布娃娃上摩擦，直到它似乎从中得到了一些安慰，然后才放松下来。
In other experiments, it comes back to the cloth doll for reassurance when it's put into scary situations.
在其他实验中，当布娃娃陷入可怕的情况时，它会回到布娃娃身上以寻求安慰。
When the cloth mom is nearby, the baby is curious.
当布妈妈在附近时，宝宝就会感到好奇。
It walks around and explores.
它四处走动并探索。
It's confident.
真是有信心啊
And this is how Harlow proved that the relationship between mother and child is more than just about getting food.
哈洛就是这样证明母亲和孩子之间的关系不仅仅是获取食物。
The baby monkeys needed something else, something that had to do with being cuddled and touched and reassured.
小猴子们还需要一些别的东西，一些与拥抱、抚摸和安抚有关的东西。
It was clear that in this sort of cuddly feeling of affection came all kinds of really important developmental responses.
很明显，在这种可爱的感情中会产生各种非常重要的发展反应。
You know, security, curiosity is essential or more essential than being fed.
要知道，安全感、好奇心是必不可少的，或者说比吃饱更重要。
One of the other Harlow experiments was one in which they took nice, cuddly, ever welcoming cloth mother, and they made her into an abusive mother or a rejecting mother.
哈洛的另一项实验是，他们把善良、可爱、热情的布妈妈变成了一个虐待母亲或拒绝母亲的母亲。
Harlow called these evil mothers.
哈洛称这些为邪恶的母亲。
One of the cloth moms had brass spikes embedded that would shoot out when the baby monkey held on.
其中一个布妈妈嵌入了黄铜尖刺，当小猴子抓住时，黄铜尖刺就会射出。
I mean, they were blunt tipped.
我的意思是，它们的尖端很钝。
It didn't cut them to shreds but they hurt.
它没有把它们切成碎片，但它们很痛。
And one was like a shaking mom.
其中一个就像一位颤抖的妈妈。
Harlow wrote very graphically.
哈洛写得非常生动。
He said the babies would be shaken till their teeth and bones rattled in unison.
他说婴儿们会被摇晃，直到他们的牙齿和骨头一起发出嘎嘎声。
And one would just hurl the baby away.
有人会把婴儿扔掉。
It was spring loaded.
它是弹簧加载的。
But what they found was that when the mom quit-- spikes retracted or shaking stopped-- the babies came back and they did everything they could to make those mothers love them again.
但他们发现，当妈妈退出时——尖峰缩回或停止摇晃——婴儿们就会回来，他们会尽一切努力让妈妈们再次爱他们。
And then they cooed and they stroked and they'd groom and they'd flirt, and exactly what human babies do with their moms.
然后它们会咕咕叫、抚摸、梳理毛发、调情，就像人类婴儿对妈妈所做的那样。
And they would abandon their friends.
他们会抛弃他们的朋友。
They had to fix this relationship.
他们必须修复这种关系。
It was so important to them.
这对他们来说非常重要。
Harlow spent years as an outcast, fighting for his ideas, before things finally changed.
哈洛多年来一直是一个被遗弃的人，为自己的想法而奋斗，直到事情最终发生变化。
Though Harlow, he did so much to convince people that a parent's love for a child is one of the most important things that anyone could ever get or need, he did not have so much success with the love in his own life.
尽管哈洛做了很多努力让人们相信父母对孩子的爱是任何人都可以获得或需要的最重要的事情之一，但他在自己的生活中并没有在爱方面取得如此大的成功。
He was notoriously cold.
他是出了名的冷酷。
He had a wicked tongue and everyone lived a little bit in fear of it.
他的舌头很恶毒，每个人都生活在恐惧之中。
He was not at all a warm and fuzzy person, and he certainly wasn't a warm and fuzzy father.
他根本不是一个温暖而毛茸茸的人，他当然也不是一个温暖而毛茸茸的父亲。
He had four children by two different marriages.
他通过两次不同的婚姻育有四个孩子。
Almost all of them, his children-- the ones I talked to-- remember him as being gone.
几乎所有人，包括他的孩子——我与之交谈过的孩子——都记得他去世了。
Was he self aware enough to actually understand how publicly he loved the idea of love, but in his private life he wasn't carrying it out?
他是否有足够的自我意识来真正理解他在公开场合多么热爱爱情，但在私下生活中却没有付诸实践？
I don't think he was maybe until the end of his life.
我不认为他可能直到生命的尽头。
And he had difficulty in a lot of relationships.
他在很多人际关系中都遇到了困难。
In a way, of course, who else would be so interested in how does love work, except for somebody who really needs to figure it out?
当然，在某种程度上，除了那些真正需要弄清楚爱情如何运作的人之外，还有谁会对爱情如此感兴趣呢？
Well, today on our program, stories of unconditional love.
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，讲述无条件的爱的故事。
If you can get a monkey to love a terry cloth towel with a cue ball on its head, it doesn't seem like it should be so hard with your own kids, right?
如果你能让一只猴子喜欢头上有母球的毛圈布毛巾，那么对待你自己的孩子似乎就不那么难了，对吧？
We have two stories today of parents and children, and exactly what unconditional love gets you.
今天我们有两个关于父母和孩子的故事，以及无条件的爱会给你带来什么。
We first ran today's show all the way back in 2006.
我们第一次举办今天的节目可以追溯到 2006 年。
Act One of our show, Love is a Battlefield.
我们的节目第一幕《爱情是战场》。
Act Two, Hit Me With Your Best Shot.
第二幕，用你最好的一击击中我。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One-- Love is a Battlefield.
第一幕——爱情是战场。
In this act, a family faces a kind of profound question.
在这一幕中，一个家庭面临着一种深刻的问题。
Can you teach love, even to a child who has all sorts of reasons not to learn love?
你能教导爱，即使是对一个有各种理由不学习爱的孩子吗？
Alix Spiegel has this story.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔有这样一个故事。
Until he was seven years old, Daniel Solomon slept sitting up.
丹尼尔·所罗门（Daniel Solomon）七岁之前都是坐着睡觉的。
This wasn't because upright was a particularly comfortable position or because some exotic medical condition prevented him from straightening at the waist.
这并不是因为直立是一个特别舒服的姿势，也不是因为某种特殊的医疗状况使他无法挺直腰部。
It was just because Daniel didn't have another option.
只是因为丹尼尔没有其他选择。
For the first seven years of his life, he lived in a crib in an orphanage in Romania with another child his age.
在他生命的前七年里，他和另一个同龄的孩子住在罗马尼亚一家孤儿院的婴儿床上。
His name was Niku, and he was more a shy kid.
他的名字叫尼库，他是一个比较害羞的孩子。
He didn't really talk much.
他其实没说太多话。
And, I mean, it was kind of weird but it was fun to have him in there.
而且，我的意思是，这有点奇怪，但有他在那里很有趣。
It was-- I don't know what we even did, but we were there for seven and a half years and we got along, I guess.
我不知道我们都做了什么，但我们在那里待了七年半，我猜我们相处得很好。
During the day, one set of adults would feed and clean Daniel, Niku, and the other 100 or so orphans who lived in the same room.
白天，一组成年人负责喂养丹尼尔、尼库以及住在同一个房间的另外 100 名左右的孤儿，并负责打扫卫生。
During the night, there was a graveyard crew.
晚上，有一个墓地工作人员。
But even though Daniel was there for seven and a half years, he can't tell you the name of any of the adults who took care of him.
但即使丹尼尔在那里呆了七年半，他也无法告诉你任何照顾他的成年人的名字。
He didn't know any of them well enough to say.
他对他们中的任何一个都不太了解，无法说出。
He also can't tell you much about how he passed his time, what he thought about.
他也无法告诉你太多关于他如何度过他的时间，他的想法。
He didn't go to school.
他没有去上学。
He didn't go outside.
他没有出去。
He only left his crib to eat and go to the bathroom, so there wasn't a lot of material to draw from.
他只留下婴儿床去吃饭和上厕所，所以没有太多素材可以借鉴。
There was one window where you could see the city.
有一扇窗户可以看到这座城市。
And I don't remember exactly when I started thinking about it, but you kind of started to think about, like, what is that?
我不记得我是什么时候开始思考这个问题的，但你开始思考，那是什么？
I know you'd see all these car lights and all the lights in the city.
我知道你会看到所有这些汽车灯和城市里所有的灯光。
And I think I started thinking about, like, what is that and why am I here, not there?
我想我开始思考，那是什么，为什么我在这里，而不是那里？
One thing Daniel does remember is that he didn't spend a lot of his time yearning for a family, imagining some mother and father would drop from the sky to rescue him.
丹尼尔确实记得的一件事是，他并没有花很多时间渴望一个家庭，想象一些父母会从天而降来拯救他。
No. I've seen several kids who had left and I'd wondered where they were going.
不。我见过几个离开的孩子，我想知道他们要去哪里。
But if I knew about it, I would have wondered, obviously, but you didn't know anything about it.
但如果我知道的话，我会想知道，显然，但你对此一无所知。
It's like, a kid who never eats chocolate doesn't know what chocolate tastes like.
就像，一个从不吃巧克力的孩子不知道巧克力是什么味道。
I didn't know what a family was, and I didn't think I really thought about it at all.
我不知道什么是家庭，我想我根本没有真正考虑过它。
In fact, the story of how Daniel came to have a family, whether or not he actually wanted one, begins with a kind of accident.
事实上，丹尼尔如何组建家庭的故事，无论他是否真的想要一个家庭，都是从一次意外开始的。
His mother-- or anyway, the woman who would become his mother, Heidi Solomon-- got a magazine in the mail from the adoption agency that was in the process of evaluating whether she and her husband were fit to have children.
他的母亲——或者说，后来成为他母亲的海蒂·所罗门——收到了收养机构寄来的一本杂志，该杂志正在评估她和她的丈夫是否适合生孩子。
We were just in the beginning of our home study when we got a magazine, and it had his picture in it.
我们刚开始在家自习，就收到一本杂志，里面有他的照片。
And I don't really know how, because there was hundreds of pictures of kids.
我真的不知道怎么做，因为有数百张孩子的照片。
And I just remember telling my husband, I'm like, I think this is our son.
我只记得告诉我丈夫，我想，我认为这是我们的儿子。
So it was just kind of weird.
所以这有点奇怪。
Like, for some reason, his picture just, like, radiated to me.
就像，出于某种原因，他的照片就像辐射到了我身上。
Five months later, Heidi and her husband, Rick, drove from their home in South Euclid, Ohio, to the Cleveland Airport, and took an eight hour flight to Romania to pick up their new son.
五个月后，海蒂和她的丈夫里克从俄亥俄州南欧几里得的家开车到克利夫兰机场，乘坐八小时的航班飞往罗马尼亚接他们的新儿子。
Heidi is a special education teacher by profession.
海蒂是一名职业特殊教育教师。
And she says that she felt certain ever since she was a kid herself that she wanted to adopt children-- wanted to even though she knew that adoption could be difficult, that the kid might have developmental problems or emotional problems or physical problems, or all three.
她说，从她还是个孩子的时候起，她就确信自己想要收养孩子——尽管她知道收养可能很困难，孩子可能有发育问题、情感问题或身体问题，或者三者都有。
Heidi believes strongly that people should do what they're capable of, and she says she felt capable of adopting a child.
海蒂坚信人们应该做自己力所能及的事情，她说她觉得自己有能力收养一个孩子。
Rick, on the other hand, had started with a more conventional fantasy, that he would have biological children.
另一方面，里克则从一个更传统的幻想开始，即他会有亲生孩子。
But Rick loved his wife.
但瑞克爱他的妻子。
And so even though it hadn't been part of his original plan, he agreed.
因此，尽管这不是他最初计划的一部分，他还是同意了。
And he says that when he and Heidi finally walked off the plane in Romania and saw the dark haired child dancing on the airport ramp, he felt certain that he and his wife had made the right choice.
他说，当他和海蒂最终在罗马尼亚走下飞机，看到那个黑发孩子在机场坡道上跳舞时，他确信他和妻子做出了正确的选择。
You know, he was just this bouncy, smiling child who was so excited, appeared to be bright eyed and happy and happy to see us.
你知道，他就是这个充满活力、微笑的孩子，看到我们非常兴奋，看起来眼睛明亮，高兴又高兴。
And I think my biggest fear going in was, like, he's just going to turn his back on us and we're going to really have to fight to get his love and attention.
我认为我最大的恐惧是，他会背弃我们，而我们真的必须努力争取他的爱和关注。
And he was not like that at all, at least initially.
而他根本不是那样的，至少一开始是这样。
The family's early weeks back in Ohio were full of firsts-- the first time Daniel wore shoes, the first time Daniel slept alone in a bed.
一家人回到俄亥俄州的最初几周充满了第一次——丹尼尔第一次穿鞋，丹尼尔第一次独自睡在床上。
They played, and danced, and worked on English.
他们玩耍、跳舞、学习英语。
And even though Daniel had some difficult moments, tantrums and fits of crying, both Heidi and Rick will tell you that, on the whole, the family had a good time.
尽管丹尼尔遇到了一些困难的时刻，发脾气和哭泣，海蒂和瑞克都会告诉你，总的来说，一家人度过了一段愉快的时光。
This honeymoon, however, only lasted about six months.
然而，这个蜜月只持续了大约六个月。
And then, Heidi says, came March.
海蒂说，三月到了。
Until March, I think it was moving in a manageable direction.
直到三月份，我认为它正在朝着可控的方向发展。
Like, there were tantrums, but there was progress, and there was tantrums and progress.
就像，有发脾气，但有进步，有发脾气也有进步。
And then his birthday is in March.
然后他的生日是三月。
And I remember at the beginning of March he said, they don't have March in Romania because I never had a birthday before.
我记得三月初他说，罗马尼亚没有三月，因为我以前从未过过生日。
So this whole idea of a birthday was really overwhelming to him.
所以生日的整个想法对他来说真的是难以承受。
And March came around-- like, that's when I started thinking, like, about the biological thing.
三月到来了——就在那时我开始思考生物学问题。
You see, until his eighth birthday, Daniel had never confronted the idea that he had been born, and therefore that he had actual parents, people who could have, had they elected to, provided a birthday party at some point before his eighth year of life.
你看，直到他八岁生日之前，丹尼尔从未面对过他已经出生的想法，因此他有真正的父母，如果他们选择的话，他们可以在他八岁之前的某个时候举办生日聚会。
This whole concept deeply disturbed him.
这整个概念深深地困扰着他。
And even though Heidi did her best to explain the difference between biological and adoptive families, it seems that Daniel didn't get it because he walked away from that conversation fundamentally confused about his relationship to Heidi and Rick.
尽管海蒂尽力解释了亲生家庭和收养家庭之间的区别，但丹尼尔似乎并没有明白，因为他在结束谈话时对自己与海蒂和瑞克的关系感到非常困惑。
I started thinking that they were my biological parents, and how-- I was really mad at them that they put me there for seven and a half years, and then came and got me, like what happened.
我开始认为他们是我的亲生父母，我真的很生他们的气，他们把我放在那里七年半了，然后又来抓我，就像发生的那样。
Like, why was I there for that long, and what was going on?
比如，为什么我在那里呆了那么久，发生了什么事？
And that's kind of, I guess, when all hell broke loose.
我想，这就是地狱崩溃的时刻。
During this period, Daniel conceived a powerful hatred of his parents-- a deep anger that he couldn't shake, even after the difference between biological and adoptive parents had been explained again and again, and his actual relationship to Heidi and Rick became clear.
在此期间，丹尼尔对父母产生了强烈的仇恨——一种深深的愤怒，即使在亲生父母和养父母的区别被一再解释、他与海蒂和瑞克的实际关系也变得清晰之后，他仍无法摆脱。
At that point, it just didn't matter.
那时，这并不重要。
His anger had taken on a logic of its own.
他的愤怒已经有了自己的逻辑。
Once he learned about the idea of parents and what his had done to him, he needed to hate someone and Heidi and Rick were the people closest at hand.
一旦他了解了父母的想法以及父母对他所做的一切，他就需要恨一个人，而海蒂和瑞克是最亲近的人。
And so his tantrums became tornadoes of rage-- seven, eight hour marathons where he would throw literally anything he could get his hands on.
因此，他的脾气变成了愤怒的龙卷风——七、八个小时的马拉松，他几乎会扔掉任何他能拿到的东西。
Rick and Heidi say that he put more than 1,000 holes in the walls of his room until, finally, they had to move everything out of his bedroom except a mattress.
里克和海蒂说，他在房间的墙上打了 1000 多个洞，最后他们不得不把除了床垫之外的所有东西都搬出卧室。
They called in professional social workers and specialists, several of whom left bleeding, needing medical attention.
他们请来了专业的社会工作者和专家，其中一些人流血不止，需要医疗救助。
Remember, Daniel was eight.
请记住，丹尼尔当时八岁。
But, really, Daniel saved the worst of it for Heidi, the person who most wanted to help him.
但实际上，丹尼尔为最想帮助他的人海蒂省去了最糟糕的事情。
He hated her, appeared to take actual pleasure in her pain.
他恨她，似乎以她的痛苦为乐。
Like, one time, he gave me a black eye when I was trying to help him.
就像有一次，当我试图帮助他时，他把我的眼睛打肿了。
And he smiled like he was so happy that he gave me a black eye.
他笑得好像很高兴，让我眼圈都肿了。
And what did you think when you saw your son smiling after you--
当你看到你的儿子在你身后微笑时，你会怎么想——
I thought he really needs serious help, and he's very disturbing.
我认为他确实需要认真的帮助，而且他非常令人不安。
There was a time where I remember my dad had hired this person to come to our house because my mom didn't feel safe with me in the house.
我记得有一段时间，我爸爸雇了这个人来我们家，因为我妈妈和我一起在家里感到不安全。
Did you get that?
你明白了吗？
They essentially had to hire a bodyguard.
他们基本上不得不雇用一名保镖。
And even so, Heidi found herself calling the police several times a month, until Heidi and Rick turned to the mental health profession.
即便如此，海蒂发现自己每个月都要报警好几次，直到海蒂和里克转向心理健康专业。
They ferried Daniel from one psychiatrist to another, and religiously followed their advice.
他们将丹尼尔从一位精神科医生转到另一位精神科医生，并虔诚地遵循他们的建议。
One man told them to put Daniel on medication, pills for ADHD, which greatly improved Daniel's handwriting, but otherwise didn't do much to help.
一名男子告诉他们给丹尼尔服用治疗多动症的药物，这极大地改善了丹尼尔的笔迹，但除此之外没有多大帮助。
Another woman counseled them to buy Daniel a puppy.
另一位女士建议他们给丹尼尔买一只小狗。
This also didn't work out so well.
这也没有那么顺利。
Like, in three days, he was strangling the puppy.
就像，三天之内，他就勒死了那只小狗。
Heidi was told by at least two psychiatrists that her son would never love her, that she should give him up to foster care.
至少两名精神科医生告诉海蒂，她的儿子永远不会爱她，她应该把他送去寄养。
Worse, the situation with Daniel began to affect Heidi's marriage to Rick.
更糟糕的是，丹尼尔的情况开始影响海蒂与瑞克的婚姻。
It was just so hard on him emotionally, dealing with this kid who made no sense at all.
面对这个毫无意义的孩子，他的感情实在是太难受了。
I mean, and I will tell you it put our marriage on the line.
我的意思是，我会告诉你这让我们的婚姻岌岌可危。
I mean, there were times when he said, I'm leaving.
我是说，有几次他说，我要走了。
Looking back now, I just-- I didn't want to take that step, but I certainly thought about it, just because I was so unhappy with the whole situation.
现在回想起来，我只是——我不想迈出那一步，但我确实想过，只是因为我对整个情况感到非常不满意。
Yeah.
是的。
I thought about leaving.
我想过离开。
But Heidi wouldn't give up on Daniel.
但海蒂不会放弃丹尼尔。
Changing her son became a kind of singular focus, an idea that obscured all other considerations.
改变她的儿子成了一种单一的焦点，一种掩盖了所有其他考虑的想法。
I mean, one time a case manager sat down and said, this is what I think's going to happen.
我的意思是，有一次，一位案件经理坐下来说，这就是我认为将会发生的事情。
Daniel's going to hurt you.
丹尼尔会伤害你。
You're going to be in the hospital.
你要住院了。
He'll be in juvenile detention, and your husband's going to leave you.
他会被关进少管所，而你的丈夫也会离开你。
Like, I remember that very clearly.
好像，我记得很清楚。
And I looked at him.
我看着他。
I said, does this mean we hit bottom, and we can start moving up now?
我说，这是不是意味着我们已经触底了，现在可以开始上涨了？
Like-- I mean, I'm like, that was just my response.
就像——我的意思是，我就像，这只是我的回应。
I'm like, OK, that's your thing.
我说，好吧，那是你的事。
Like, what do we need to do to get better?
比如，我们需要做什么才能变得更好？
Like, I understand what the situation is.
就像，我明白现在的情况。
I mean, would you have sacrificed your marriage?
我的意思是，你会牺牲你的婚姻吗？
I didn't want to.
我不想。
Alix Spiegel The portrait that you're painting is you had to take everything out of his room.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔（Alix Spiegel）：你所画的肖像是你必须把他房间里的所有东西都拿走。
At a certain point, you kind of hired a bodyguard.
在某个时候，你雇佣了一名保镖。
It put a strain on your marriage.
这给你的婚姻带来了压力。
You called the police regularly.
你经常打电话给警察。
I mean--
我的意思是——
I know, like, when you're saying it, and I said-- I mean, I feel like, OK, like, I'm crazy, when you say everything in that list.
我知道，当你这么说时，我说——我的意思是，当你说出清单中的所有内容时，我感觉，好吧，我疯了。
It's not like I was with the bodyguard and I'm thinking, like, wow, last week-- I wasn't, like, always putting everything together in a list like that.
这不像我和保镖在一起的时候，我在想，哇，上周——我并不总是把所有的东西都放在这样的列表中。
And just, like, this is the way our life was so I just did it.
就像，这就是我们的生活，所以我就这么做了。
I mean, I'm, like, a really stubborn person.
我的意思是，我是一个非常固执的人。
Then one day after school, when Heidi was busy making a snack for Daniel in the kitchen, he grabbed a knife from the counter and held it to Heidi's throat.
有一天放学后，当海蒂在厨房里忙着给丹尼尔做点心时，他从柜台上抓起一把刀，抵在海蒂的喉咙上。
No one in the family likes to talk about this episode.
家里没有人喜欢谈论这一事件。
It clearly frightened both of them.
显然，两人都被吓到了。
The only thing Heidi's comfortable saying about it now is that the experience convinced her to reconsider the way she went about Daniel's education.
海蒂现在唯一能放心地说的是，这次经历说服了她重新考虑丹尼尔的教育方式。
I stopped doing any kind of tutoring with him at all for a long time.
我很长一段时间不再给他做任何辅导。
Because I said, I don't want him to learn how to read.
因为我说过，我不想让他学习读书。
Because-- this was around the time when Columbine happened, and I was like, it's really good that he can't get any information on his own.
因为——那是在哥伦拜恩事件发生的时候，我想，他自己无法获得任何信息真是太好了。
Did you feel like Daniel was homicidal at any point?
你有没有觉得丹尼尔有杀人倾向？
How do you love somebody who is homicidal?
你如何爱一个有杀人倾向的人？
Well, because he wasn't-- I mean, even-- because he was my son.
嗯，因为他不是——我是说，甚至——因为他是我的儿子。
I mean, you have to love him or else there's no way out of it.
我的意思是，你必须爱他，否则你就没有办法了。
You know, it's like if you're lost, you want to keep moving forward, to get to the end place.
你知道，这就像如果你迷路了，你想继续前进，到达终点。
Like, I don't think I ever question my love.
就像，我想我从来没有质疑过我的爱。
Heidi says the only time she did question whether or not she should keep Daniel was when she thought about the possibility of Daniel hurting someone else-- a fear that became more pronounced in the wake of an outside incident that happened around Daniel's 10th birthday.
海蒂说，她唯一一次质疑是否应该留下丹尼尔，是在她想到丹尼尔可能伤害别人的时候——在丹尼尔 10 岁生日前后发生的一次外部事件之后，这种恐惧变得更加明显。
By that point, Daniel had been given the diagnosis attachment disorder, meaning his primary problem was that he was unable to feel connected to other people.
那时，丹尼尔已被诊断为依恋障碍，这意味着他的主要问题是他无法感受到与其他人的联系。
Heidi knew another kid who had been diagnosed with attachment disorder.
海蒂认识另一个被诊断出患有依恋障碍的孩子。
She'd met him through her work, and had been so impressed with him that she actually asked the kid, who was slightly older than Daniel, to be his Big Brother.
她是在工作中认识的，对他印象深刻，甚至邀请这个比丹尼尔大一点的孩子做他的大哥。
I thought he was doing really well.
我认为他做得非常好。
Like, he had been featured in the newspaper.
就像，他曾出现在报纸上。
He, like, delivered Meals on Wheels.
他就像用轮子送餐一样。
And then it was, like, President's Weekend of 2000, he committed murder.
然后就在 2000 年的总统周末，他犯下了谋杀罪。
Like, I mean, he came home and just sat down on his parents' couch that night after, like, cold blooded murder, without any emotion at all.
就像，我的意思是，那天晚上，在冷血的谋杀之后，他回到家，坐在父母的沙发上，没有任何情绪。
Like, and I think I had seen him the day before.
就像，我想我前一天见过他。
I mean, it was horrifying in many levels.
我的意思是，这在很多层面上都是可怕的。
Like, I'd worked with this kid.
就像，我和这个孩子一起工作过。
It was, like, and that whole professional level, but it was horrifying to me personally.
这就是整个专业水平，但对我个人来说这很可怕。
Because I was like, oh, my god, here was a kid with attachment disorder that I thought was doing better, and this is how sick he really is.
因为我当时想，哦，天哪，这是一个患有依恋障碍的孩子，我认为他做得更好，而这就是他真正的病态。
I was like, I will never be comfortable with Daniel.
我当时想，我永远不会对丹尼尔感到舒服。
Heidi was coming to believe something that frightened her.
海蒂开始相信一些令她害怕的事情。
She was coming to believe that because kids with attachment disorder couldn't connect to other people, they couldn't feel empathy.
她开始相信，因为患有依恋障碍的孩子无法与其他人建立联系，所以他们无法感受到同理心。
And without empathy, they didn't possess a really important human quality.
如果没有同理心，他们就不具备真正重要的人类品质。
The bottom line is these people-- like, people with attachment disorder, they don't develop a conscience, and they have the ability to hurt other people without feeling guilty.
底线是这些人——比如患有依恋障碍的人，他们没有良心，他们有能力伤害别人而不感到内疚。
Like, that's really dangerous.
比如说，这真的很危险。
Heidi wanted her son to have a conscience.
海蒂希望她的儿子有良知。
She didn't want him to be dangerous.
她不想让他成为危险的人。
And so she began to call around to find out more about aggressive treatments for the problem.
于是她开始四处打电话，寻找更多关于积极治疗该问题的信息。
The treatment of attachment disorder has a long and controversial history-- such a controversial history that many of the people who practice versions of the therapy decline to use its name.
依恋障碍的治疗有着悠久而有争议的历史——如此有争议的历史以至于许多实施该疗法版本的人拒绝使用其名称。
It was started in the mid '70s by a psychiatrist named Foster Cline, who felt that children who acted out because of an inability to connect to their parents should be forcibly regressed, made to feel helpless and hopeless so they'd return to a baby-like dependence.
这项运动是由一位名叫福斯特·克莱恩（Foster Cline）的精神病学家在 70 年代中期发起的，他认为那些因为无法与父母建立联系而表现出行为的孩子应该被强制退行，让他们感到无助和绝望，这样他们就会回到婴儿般的依赖状态。
Early versions of the therapy involved berating children, poking them, and physically subduing them by holding them down.
该疗法的早期版本包括斥责儿童、戳他们，以及通过压住他们来制服他们。
Therapists would sometimes direct profanity at a child, and also have the child direct profanity at them.
治疗师有时会直接对孩子说脏话，也会让孩子对他们说脏话。
Cline himself acknowledged that this was so harsh it was often difficult even for professionals to watch.
克莱恩本人承认，这太残酷了，即使是专业人士也很难观看。
But when outsiders criticized the treatment as sadistic, Cline responded that, quote, "These children need the kind of love that forces them to love others."
但当外界批评这种待遇是虐待行为时，克莱恩回应说，“这些孩子需要那种迫使他们去爱别人的爱。”
After the '70s, though, the therapy changed substantially, particularly after a couple of children died from being smothered in blankets.
然而，在 70 年代之后，这种疗法发生了很大的变化，特别是在几个孩子因被毯子闷死之后。
And by the time Heidi started hunting for something to help Daniel, most of the extreme methods of attachment therapy had been abandoned.
当海蒂开始寻找可以帮助丹尼尔的东西时，大多数依恋疗法的极端方法都已被放弃。
So when Heidi heard about a doctor in Virginia who appeared to have had some success with a highly intensive program related to attachment therapy, she leaped at the opportunity.
因此，当海蒂听说弗吉尼亚州的一位医生似乎在与依恋疗法相关的高强度项目上取得了一些成功时，她抓住了这个机会。
According to the doctor, Ronald Federici, mother and child needed to spend several months side by side, literally no farther than 3 feet apart.
据医生罗纳德·费德里奇 (Ronald Federici) 介绍，母亲和孩子需要并肩度过几个月，实际上相距不超过 3 英尺。
The goal of his plan is to try to recreate the bond that never occurred, because I wasn't with him when he was born.
他计划的目标是尝试重建从未发生过的纽带，因为他出生时我不在他身边。
But it'd be very natural for a newborn baby to spend an extended amount of time just next to the mom, until you're trying to recreate that attachment.
但对于刚出生的婴儿来说，在你试图重新建立这种依恋之前，花很长时间在妈妈身边是很自然的。
So Daniel and I were like three feet apart for about eight weeks.
所以丹尼尔和我在大约八个星期的时间里相距三英尺。
I didn't go to school.
我没有去学校。
She stopped her job.
她停止了工作。
When she would go to the bathroom, I would be right outside the door.
当她去洗手间时，我就在门外。
When I went to the bathroom, she'd be right outside the door.
当我去洗手间时，她就在门外。
The only time she was not next to me was when I was sleeping.
唯一一次她不在我身边的时候是我睡觉的时候。
Like, literally, that was it.
就像，从字面上看，就是这样。
But it wasn't just being side by side.
但这不仅仅是肩并肩。
There were other elements to the program, like eye contact.
该计划还有其他元素，例如眼神交流。
Federici felt that because mothers and their babies spent a large amount of time just staring into each other's eyes, it was important for Heidi and Daniel to do the same.
费德里奇认为，由于母亲和婴儿花费大量时间凝视对方的眼睛，因此海蒂和丹尼尔也这样做很重要。
Daniel was required to look into Heidi's eyes during every interaction they had, and neither of them were allowed to move onto the next activity until Daniel did it correctly.
丹尼尔在每次互动时都必须看着海蒂的眼睛，并且在丹尼尔正确完成之前，他们都不允许进入下一个活动。
Like, if I was talking to him, I would keep repeating what I was saying until he made correct eye contact.
就像，如果我和他说话，我会不断重复我所说的话，直到他进行正确的目光接触。
Like, I remember one time we spent, like, 20 minutes him handing me a notebook.
我记得有一次我们花了 20 分钟，他递给我一本笔记本。
Part of it, also, is he is not allowed to ask for anything.
部分原因是他不被允许提出任何要求。
He couldn't ask-- because babies don't ask for anything.
他不能要求——因为婴儿不会要求任何东西。
They learn that they're going to have their needs provided for them.
他们了解到他们的需求将会得到满足。
So it's not that he couldn't have a treat or he couldn't have every-- he just couldn't ask.
所以，并不是他不能享受美食，也不是他不能拥有一切——他只是不能提出要求。
Like, we went to the store, could not ask for anything, because he had to learn that I was going to provide for him what he needed.
就像，我们去了商店，不能要求任何东西，因为他必须知道我将为他提供他需要的东西。
Predictably, Daniel resisted the program.
不出所料，丹尼尔抵制了这个计划。
Oh, I hated it.
哦，我讨厌它。
I totally, absolutely hated it.
我完全、绝对讨厌它。
Yeah, I did every single thing not to do it.
是的，我做了每一件事都是为了不做。
Problem was every time Daniel resisted treatment, he was subjected to yet another program-dictated activity-- time-ins, the alternative universe version of time-outs.
问题是，每次丹尼尔抵制治疗时，他都会受到另一种程序规定的活动——暂停，另一种宇宙版本的暂停。
The idea is that since kids with attachment disorder prefer to be alone, every time they do something bad the response should be to make them spend even more time, even closer together.
这个想法是，由于患有依恋障碍的孩子更喜欢独处，每次他们做坏事时，反应应该是让他们花更多的时间，更加亲密地在一起。
Like, we would sit on the couch and I would hug him.
就像，我们会坐在沙发上，我会拥抱他。
That was, like, his punishment.
这就是对他的惩罚。
Like he said, at first Daniel hated the treatment.
正如他所说，起初丹尼尔讨厌这种治疗。
And at least initially, his behavior actually deteriorated.
至少一开始，他的行为实际上恶化了。
But then something happened.
但后来发生了一些事情。
I think it was around the third week that I actually-- like, I was with her more.
我想大约是在第三周左右，我真正喜欢的是，我和她在一起的时间更多了。
I think I realized that she's not as bad as I thought she was.
我想我意识到她并不像我想象的那么糟糕。
I think this is kind of when it kind of changed.
我认为这就是它发生变化的时候。
Like, I didn't have as much time to hate her, I guess.
就像，我想我没有那么多时间去恨她。
And so, like, I kind of liked her a little more.
所以，就像，我更喜欢她一点。
Like, before, like, she would tell me not to do this.
就像以前一样，她会告诉我不要这样做。
Then for, like, 45 minutes, I would hate her because she told me not to do this.
然后，大约 45 分钟，我会恨她，因为她告诉我不要这样做。
Well, you know, there wasn't a time where I could kind of, like, go somewhere else and hate her.
嗯，你知道，我从来没有一个时候可以去别的地方恨她。
I was next to her.
我就在她旁边。
I had to live with her, whether I liked her or not.
不管我喜不喜欢她，我都必须和她住在一起。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's just something changed.
只是有些东西改变了。
Daniel says he actually came to understand, maybe for the first time, that his mother loved him.
丹尼尔说，他实际上开始明白，也许是第一次，他的母亲爱他。
The realization just dawned on him in a different way.
他以一种不同的方式意识到了这一点。
Both Heidi and Daniel will say that after eight weeks, Daniel was cured of his violent behavior.
海蒂和丹尼尔都会说，八周后，丹尼尔的暴力行为得到了治愈。
It was gone, done.
它消失了，完成了。
No more tantrums, no more throwing, no more threats.
不再发脾气，不再投掷，不再威胁。
But there were still problems.
但仍然存在问题。
Instead of acting out against his parents, Daniel started stealing-- at first, just small items from the local store, but it got worse.
丹尼尔没有反抗父母，而是开始偷窃——一开始只是从当地商店偷窃小件物品，但情况变得更糟。
After one particularly bad episode, where Daniel nearly ended up in juvie, Heidi decided it was time to go back to therapy.
在经历了一次特别糟糕的事件后，丹尼尔差点被送进少年监狱，海蒂决定是时候回去接受治疗了。
There was a center near their home called The Attachment and Bonding Center run by a guy named Greg Keck.
他们家附近有一个名为“依恋与联结中心”的中心，由一个名叫格雷格·凯克的人经营。
Keck proposed a program that was in some ways similar to the three feet plan.
凯克提出的计划在某些方面与三英尺计划相似。
In addition to regular counseling, Daniel, who was now 13 and larger than his mother, would participate in holding therapy.
除了定期咨询外，丹尼尔现在已经 13 岁了，而且比他的母亲还要大，他还会参加暂留治疗。
That is, every night for a year, 20 minutes a night, Daniel, Heidi, and Rick were supposed to hold on to each other and talk, Rick and Heidi cradling Daniel like a newborn child, which is exactly what they did.
也就是说，一年中的每一晚，每晚 20 分钟，丹尼尔、海蒂和瑞克都应该互相拥抱并交谈，瑞克和海蒂像新生婴儿一样抱着丹尼尔，而他们也确实这么做了。
I would-- even know he was really big, I would try to cradle him on my lap.
我会——即使知道他真的很大，我也会试着把他抱在腿上。
Or it was really both Rick and I, because he would take up both of our laps.
或者实际上是里克和我，因为他会占据我们俩的圈。
And I would look into his eyes the same way you would with a baby, and you make eye contact.
我会像对待婴儿一样看着他的眼睛，然后进行眼神交流。
And we would feed him with a spoon, ice cream.
我们会用勺子喂他冰淇淋。
That's what we'd have to do to get him to-- because he liked ice cream.
这就是我们必须做的事情——因为他喜欢冰淇淋。
It definitely feels really weird.
确实感觉很奇怪。
It's like, what is this?
就像，这是什么？
How did that, like, change the way you felt about them?
这如何改变了你对他们的看法？
Well, it's like they were feeding me ice cream.
嗯，就像他们在给我喂冰淇淋一样。
So I was like, OK, fine.
所以我想，好吧，好吧。
But, like, it was like-- that's when I actually first started to be able to talk about what I was feeling.
但是，就好像——那就是我第一次真正开始能够谈论我的感受的时候。
For the first time, Daniel really talked about his experience in the orphanage, opened himself up.
丹尼尔第一次真正地讲述了自己在孤儿院的经历，敞开了自己的心扉。
And maybe it was the holding, and maybe it was the fact that The Attachment and Bonding Center gave Daniel a therapist he says he actually trusted, who led him through the process, but for one reason or another Daniel began to transform.
也许是因为持有，也许是因为依恋与联结中心给了丹尼尔一位他说他真正信任的治疗师，这位治疗师引导他完成了整个过程，但出于某种原因丹尼尔开始转变。
There wasn't a specific moment anyone can point to.
没有人可以指出具体的时刻。
If Daniel had gone bad in one month, the going good was a lot more gradual.
如果丹尼尔在一个月内就变坏了，那么好转则要缓慢得多。
Without anyone quite noticing, he began to help around the house.
在没有人注意到的情况下，他开始帮忙做家务。
They were able to move furniture back into his room.
他们能够将家具搬回他的房间。
He started to make friends his own age.
他开始结交同龄的朋友。
By that point, the rabbi of their synagogue called Heidi to tell her that Daniel had won something called the Brickner Award.
那时，犹太教堂的拉比打电话给海蒂，告诉她丹尼尔赢得了布里克纳奖。
The Brickner is given to the valedictorian of the confirmation class, and it's a huge honor for anyone.
布里克纳奖被授予确认班的告别演说者，这对任何人来说都是一个巨大的荣誉。
But in the case of Daniel, it had particular weight.
但就但以理而言，它具有特别的分量。
Heidi had taken Daniel to synagogue initially because she thought that it would help him to develop morals, but the training didn't take.
海蒂最初带丹尼尔去犹太教堂是因为她认为这可以帮助他培养道德，但训练并没有进行。
Daniel spent several years being removed from the temple in police cars.
丹尼尔花了几年时间被警车带离圣殿。
At one point, he was actually banned from going to services.
有一次，他实际上被禁止参加服务。
So as far as everyone, including Daniel, was concerned, the fact that he got the honor constituted a minor miracle.
所以对于包括丹尼尔在内的所有人来说，他获得这个荣誉已经算是一个小小的奇迹了。
One element of the award is that the winner gets to make a speech in front of the entire congregation.
该奖项的一个要素是获奖者可以在全体会众面前发表演讲。
And Daniel told Heidi and Rick that he wanted them to think of his speech as a gift.
丹尼尔告诉海蒂和里克，他希望他们把他的演讲视为一份礼物。
And so when Daniel took the stage, the whole family was there.
因此，当丹尼尔上台时，全家人都在场。
I spent my first half of my childhood in an orphanage in Romania.
我童年的前半段时光是在罗马尼亚的一家孤儿院度过的。
So for those years, I had no family, no love, no fun, no music, and no toys.
所以那些年里，我没有家庭，没有爱，没有乐趣，没有音乐，也没有玩具。
Daniel talked about his early life, and all the trouble he'd gone through since.
丹尼尔谈到了他的早年生活，以及此后他所经历的所有麻烦。
And during most of the talk, he was smooth and composed.
在大部分谈话中，他都表现得很平稳、镇定。
But then he got to the end, and even from the audience it was clear that Daniel was shaking, struggling to keep his voice under control.
但当他讲到最后时，即使是观众也能明显看出丹尼尔在颤抖，努力控制自己的声音。
Before I finish, I'd like to thank two people, my mom and dad.
在结束之前，我要感谢两个人，我的妈妈和爸爸。
The reason that I'm here today and the kind of person I am today is because of you.
我之所以能有今天，我之所以成为今天这样的人，都是因为有你们。
Mom, never thank you enough for all the places you have taken me to.
妈妈，我对您带我去过的所有地方的感激之情都说不够。
Even when I absolutely refused to go, I somehow had fun when I got there.
即使我绝对拒绝去，但到达那里后我还是很开心。
Dad, you're one heck of a guy to put up with a crazy family like this.
爸爸，你真是个了不起的人，竟然能忍受这样一个疯狂的家庭。
You guys are both amazing.
你们俩都很棒。
I love you very much.
我非常爱你。
It was, Heidi says, without doubt the most spectacular moment of her life.
海蒂说，这无疑是她一生中最壮观的时刻。
The question of whether or not it's possible to teach love is not an academic one.
是否有可能教授爱的问题不是一个学术问题。
There are plenty of people who will face this issue.
有很多人会面临这个问题。
Adoption these days is on the rise.
如今，采用率正在上升。
Most of these children will be fine, but some of them won't.
这些孩子中的大多数都会好起来，但也有一些不会。
And at least on its face, the story of Heidi and Rick and Daniel seems to offer an encouraging example.
至少从表面上看，海蒂、瑞克和丹尼尔的故事似乎提供了一个令人鼓舞的例子。
Heidi and Rick were able to take a seven-year-old with no direct experience of adult affection and, with a certain amount of pain and suffering, turned him into a loving son.
海蒂和瑞克能够带着一个没有直接体验过成人感情的七岁孩子，在一定的痛苦和折磨下，把他变成了一个慈爱的儿子。
The only problem is that the actual participants in this story see things differently.
唯一的问题是这个故事的实际参与者对事物的看法不同。
No. Alix Spiegel See, Heidi actually has a very humble view of what is and is not possible, what should and should not be expected as far as love is concerned.
不。阿利克斯·斯皮格尔（Alix Spiegel） 你看，海蒂对于爱情中什么是可能的、什么是不可能的、什么是应该期待的、什么是不应该期待的，实际上有着非常谦虚的看法。
In fact, she tells me that, in her own mind, what she wanted from Daniel all along was very, very modest.
事实上，她告诉我，在她自己看来，她对丹尼尔的要求一直非常非常谦虚。
I don't think the goal was ever love.
我不认为目标曾经是爱。
The goal was attachment.
目标是依恋。
Do you feel like you can teach attachment?
你觉得你可以教导依恋吗？
I mean, I think you can work really hard to create an environment where you can form attachment.
我的意思是，我认为你可以非常努力地创造一个可以形成依恋的环境。
You want to create these situations where it's more advantageous for them to attach than to keep doing things their own way and being in their own world, isolated.
你想要创造这样的环境，让他们更愿意依附于他们，而不是继续按照自己的方式做事，活在自己的世界里，孤立无援。
Heidi seems utterly practical about the whole thing, even about whether or not her son now loves her.
海蒂对整件事似乎非常务实，甚至对于她的儿子现在是否爱她也是如此。
Do you feel loved by Daniel?
你觉得丹尼尔爱你吗？
Heidi Solomon Yeah.
海蒂·所罗门 是的。
I feel loved by Daniel.
我感受到丹尼尔的爱。
Like, in a way that you-- Heidi Solomon Like, I don't think he wants to hurt me.
就像，以你——海蒂·所罗门那样的方式，我认为他不想伤害我。
I don't, like, worry about that at all.
我根本不担心这个。
"I don't think he wants to hurt me.
“我不认为他想伤害我。
I don't worry about that at all." It's a very unsentimental view of her relationship with her child, but that is probably exactly what has made Heidi so successful.
我根本不担心这个。”这是她对与孩子关系的一种非常客观的看法，但这可能正是海蒂如此成功的原因。
That is, Heidi is an unusually pragmatic person.
也就是说，海蒂是一个异常务实的人。
She's not a flowering earth mother with a wealth of love to give.
她不是一个可以给予丰富爱的花朵大地母亲。
She is fundamentally realistic, tough minded, and these are precisely the characteristics that are needed in this situation.
她本质上是现实的、意志坚强的，而这些正是这种情况所需要的特质。
If you're the kind of person who actually needs love-- really needs love-- chances are, you're not the kind of person who's going to have the wherewithal to create it.
如果你是那种真正需要爱的人——真的需要爱——那么你很可能不是那种有足够资金来创造爱的人。
Creating love is not for the soft and sentimental among us.
创造爱并不是为了我们当中的软弱和多愁善感。
Love is a tough business.
爱情是一件艰难的事。
Alix Spiegel-- she's the co-host of Invisibilia, a show on NPR about human behavior.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 (Alix Spiegel)——她是 NPR 节目《Invisibilia》的共同主持人，该节目是关于人类行为的节目。
Season 5 of Invisibilia starts this weekend.
《Invisibilia》第五季将于本周末开播。
Find it wherever you get your podcasts.
无论您在何处获取播客，都可以找到它。
[MUSIC - "LOVELESS TOWN" BY SARAH BLUSTER]
[音乐 - SARAH BLUSTER 的《LOVELESS TOWN》]
Coming up, another story that's going to make your job as a parent seem way easier than you felt about it at the beginning of this hour.
接下来，另一个故事会让你作为父母的工作看起来比你在这个小时开始时感觉的要容易得多。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show-- unconditional love, stories of parents and kids and how hard love can be sometimes in daily practice.
今天的节目——无条件的爱，父母和孩子的故事，以及在日常实践中有时爱是多么艰难。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
After a bunch of cases where parents of autistic children murdered their own kids, a parent named Cammie McGovern wrote an editorial in the New York Times about all the pressure that she and other parents of autistic kids feel.
在发生了一系列自闭症儿童的父母谋杀自己孩子的案件后，一位名叫卡米·麦戈文的家长在《纽约时报》上发表了一篇社论，讲述了她和其他自闭症儿童的父母所感受到的所有压力。
They hear about these amazing success stories where kids end up at Brown, at Harvard.
他们听说了这些令人惊叹的成功故事，孩子们最终进入了哈佛大学的布朗大学。
But those kinds of recoveries can't happen for every kid.
但这种康复并不是每个孩子都能实现。
This is the nature of autism.
这就是自闭症的本质。
"In mythologizing recovery," she wrote, "I fear we've set an impossibly high bar that's left the parents of a half million autistic children feeling like failures."
“在神话般的康复过程中，”她写道，“我担心我们已经设定了一个难以置信的高标准，这让 50 万自闭症儿童的父母感觉自己很失败。”
For these parents, the regular parenting rulebook is out the window.
对于这些父母来说，常规的育儿规则手册已经被抛之脑后了。
There are all these different kinds of treatments.
有所有这些不同类型的治疗方法。
They worry about doing every possible thing.
他们担心做每一件可能的事情。
Dave Royko's son was diagnosed with autism at the age of two.
戴夫·罗伊科 (Dave Royko) 的儿子在两岁时被诊断出患有自闭症。
Things have gotten harder and harder over the years, and he and his wife recently had to make a decision.
这些年来，事情变得越来越困难，他和他的妻子最近不得不做出决定。
They had to decide whether or not to place her son in a facility for the rest of his childhood.
他们必须决定是否将她的儿子安置在一个机构中度过余下的童年。
Here he is.
他在这里。
People say all kinds of things to me and my wife, as parents of an autistic son.
作为自闭症儿子的父母，人们对我和我的妻子说了各种各样的话。
And they mean well.
他们的本意是好的。
People would sometimes say to me in public or in therapy waiting rooms-- there's a lot of interaction with parents and they would say, oh, you're a Saint.
人们有时会在公共场合或在治疗候诊室对我说——与父母有很多互动，他们会说，哦，你是圣人。
And I would just think, well, Jesus Christ, what am I supposed to?
我就会想，天哪，我该怎么办？
Beat the [BLEEP] out of him?
让他发出[BLEEP]声？
Yeah.
是的。
Karen Royko What else would you do?
凯伦·罗伊科 你还能做什么？
Well, we have to take a lot of anti-depressants.
好吧，我们必须服用大量的抗抑郁药。
That helps, but--
这有帮助，但是——
Yeah.
是的。
God bless medication.
上帝保佑药物。
Karen Royko Yeah.
凯伦·罗伊科 是的。
People would often say, I couldn't do what you're doing.
人们常常会说，我做不到你正在做的事情。
And I mean, I know some people would say that-- I mean, it's really a compliment.
我的意思是，我知道有些人会这么说——我的意思是，这确实是一种恭维。
But sometimes they'll feel like yes, you would do--
但有时他们会觉得是的，你会这样做——
Right.
对。
You would rise-- Dave Royko Unless you're really a [BLEEP] person and not cut out to be a parent, you would be doing the same thing.
你会崛起——Dave Royko 除非你真的是一个[BLEEP]人并且不适合做父母，否则你也会做同样的事情。
The only difference is we have to do it.
唯一的区别是我们必须这样做。
Right.
正确的。
Dave Royko And so don't-- and it always felt like a little whiff of this crap, like God never gives you more than you can handle.
戴夫·罗伊科（Dave Royko）：所以不要——总感觉有点像废话，就像上帝永远不会给你超出你能承受的东西一样。
Right.
正确的。
You just want to kick those people in the teeth, don't you?
你只是想把那些人踢到牙齿上，不是吗？
That sounds harsh.
这听起来很刺耳。
Here's what it's like for us.
这就是我们的情况。
On a typical day, our son, Ben, empties the contents of cereal boxes and egg cartons onto the floor.
在一个典型的日子里，我们的儿子本会把麦片盒和鸡蛋盒里的东西倒在地板上。
He opens car doors while we're driving.
我们开车时他打开车门。
He walks into traffic.
他走进车流。
He throws himself up against the sliding glass door in our den.
他靠在我们书房的滑动玻璃门上。
Luckily he's never smashed through, though he has put his hand through the windows in his room.
幸运的是，尽管他把手伸进了房间的窗户，但他从未被砸破。
And by the time Ben was 12, he was nearly six feet tall and 250 pounds, a toddler in a giant's body.
当本 12 岁时，他身高近 6 英尺，体重 250 磅，就像一个巨人身体里的小孩。
He dwarfed everyone in our house but me, which is why my wife, Karen's, arms are covered with bruises, scratches, and scars.
他让我们家里除了我之外的每个人都相形见绌，这就是为什么我妻子凯伦的手臂上布满了瘀伤、抓痕和疤痕。
I've come to call the various wounds he inflicts, "Ben-juries."
我开始把他造成的各种伤害称为“本陪审团”。
Almost daily, we experience things that other parents would recount for the rest of their lives as their biggest parenting horror story.
几乎每天，我们都会经历一些其他父母会在余生中讲述的最大的育儿恐怖故事。
Recently, Karen found herself in a toy store with Ben.
最近，凯伦发现自己和本一起在一家玩具店。
The store owner complained about Ben's behavior.
店主抱怨本的行为。
He looked her right in the eye and unloaded in his pants, which was nothing new.
他直视着她的眼睛，然后脱下裤子，这并不是什么新鲜事。
Crap is Ben's trump card, useful in all sorts of situations.
废话是本的王牌，在各种情况下都很有用。
And so she walked over, smelled it-- it smelled horrible-- and got really mad.
于是她走过去，闻了闻——味道很难闻——然后真的很生气。
And I said, well, can we use your bathroom?
我说，好吧，我们可以使用你的浴室吗？
And he wouldn't let me put on his shorts, because they were wet.
他不让我穿上他的短裤，因为短裤湿了。
And so we spent probably 20 minutes in that bathroom with me fighting him, trying to get those shorts on, and him really fighting.
所以我们在浴室里呆了大约 20 分钟，我和他打架，试图穿上短裤，他真的在打架。
And I'm talking about pushing me, scratching me, and trying to get out of that bathroom.
我说的是推我、抓我，并试图离开那个浴室。
And I didn't want to let him out.
而且我不想让他出去。
He had no pants on, no underwear.
他没有穿裤子，也没有内裤。
I'm laughing about it now, but at the time I was just beside myself.
我现在对此一笑置之，但当时我简直疯了。
I was crying and sobbing.
我一边哭一边抽泣。
And finally, after a while, I looked out and that bitchy woman was there.
最后，过了一会儿，我向外一看，那个恶毒的女人就在那里。
She saw me and she said, you have to leave right now.
她看到我了，她说，你现在必须离开。
Why did you bring him in here?
你为什么带他来这里？
And so at that point, I just directed all of my anger towards her.
所以那一刻，我把所有的愤怒都发泄到了她身上。
And I said, OK, fine.
我说，好吧，好吧。
We'll leave.
我们会离开。
So I just brought him out with no pants on in the store.
所以我就在店里把他没穿裤子带了出来。
And then, oh, my god, did she ever lose it.
然后，哦，天啊，她有没有失去过它。
And so what was sort of funny was Ben really still wanted to shop.
有趣的是，本仍然想购物。
He wasn't ready to leave.
他还没准备好离开。
Ben was only nine when we got the first serious suggestion that he needed more than we could provide at home.
当我们第一次收到严肃的建议时，本只有九岁，他需要的东西超出了我们在家里所能提供的。
Two of his therapists sat us down and said that we should consider placing him in a residential program-- and the sooner, the better.
他的两位治疗师让我们坐下来，说我们应该考虑让他参加住院治疗——而且越早越好。
As he continued to grow in size, it would only get harder to find a good program that would take him.
随着他的身材不断增长，找到一个适合他的好项目只会变得更加困难。
As grim as it was to imagine sending Ben away, I also found myself agreeing with them and, frankly, feeling relieved at the idea.
尽管想象送走本是一件可怕的事，但我也发现自己同意他们的观点，坦率地说，我对这个想法感到松了口气。
Life had become an exhausting and sometimes frightening daily struggle to manage what was becoming unmanageable.
生活已经变成了一场令人筋疲力尽、有时甚至令人恐惧的日常斗争，以应对那些变得无法控制的事情。
Hearing them talk about the need for residential treatment felt like validation that, yes, things really had gotten that bad.
听到他们谈论住院治疗的必要性，感觉像是在验证，是的，事情确实已经变得那么糟糕了。
But Karen had a very different reaction.
但凯伦的反应却截然不同。
I was just floored and shocked and appalled and went home and just got under my covers and cried all day.
我感到震惊、震惊和震惊，然后回到家，躲在被子里哭了一整天。
I mean, he's a baby.
我的意思是，他还是个婴儿。
That's the thing that bothered me the most about the whole decision.
这是整个决定中最让我困扰的事情。
I just always felt like I can't do it to him.
我总觉得我不能对他这么做。
It's going to be just horrible for him.
这对他来说将是可怕的。
And as much as this is horrible for us, I can't do that to him.
尽管这对我们来说很可怕，但我不能对他这样做。
When I realized Karen felt this way, I found myself questioning my own values as a parent-- hell, as a person.
当我意识到凯伦有这种感觉时，我发现自己开始质疑自己作为父母的价值观——见鬼，作为一个人。
What kind of person wants to ship his kid off to an institution?
什么样的人愿意把孩子送到机构？
And how would Karen view me for the rest of our lives together if she ever felt like I pushed her into it?
如果凯伦觉得是我把她推入其中的，她会如何看待我的余生呢？
So I resigned myself.
于是我就辞职了。
I decided that if we had to get through another decade with autism before Ben reached adulthood, so be it.
我决定，如果我们必须在本成年之前再忍受自闭症十年，那就这样吧。
And to avoid dropping dead from exhaustion and stress, I better get in shape.
为了避免因疲劳和压力而死亡，我最好保持体形。
I lost 90 pounds.
我减掉了 90 磅。
I exercised.
我锻炼了。
I was determined to get through this and come out on the other side alive and able to enjoy life again.
我决心渡过难关，活着到达彼岸，再次享受生活。
As a parent, you want to believe that there is a cure for everything with your child.
作为父母，您要相信孩子的一切问题都有治愈的方法。
In the world of autism, there is no shortage of treatments, only a shortage of results.
在自闭症的世界里，不缺治疗，只缺结果。
We were providing Ben with as much one-on-one stimulation as humanly possible, and it wasn't working.
我们为本提供了尽可能多的一对一刺激，但这并没有起作用。
The summer before sixth grade was the toughest yet.
六年级之前的那个夏天是最艰难的。
Ben's toileting had regressed badly.
本的如厕能力严重退化。
He'd become increasingly aggressive.
他变得越来越具有攻击性。
You could be sitting comfortably with Ben, looking at a book, or a TV show, and before you had time to react, his hand would dart out and put a deep scratch into your arm, or his elbow would land a hard blow to your chest, or smash your nose and send your glasses flying.
你可能正和本舒服地坐在一起，看书或看电视节目，在你还没来得及反应之前，他的手就会猛地伸出，在你的手臂上划出一道深深的划痕，或者他的肘部会重重地击打你的胸部，或者打碎你的鼻子，让你的眼镜飞飞。
It wasn't clear where these violent outbursts came from.
目前尚不清楚这些暴力爆发从何而来。
Was he mad, just trying to get a reaction, playing, trying to connect?
他是不是疯了，只是想得到回应，玩玩，试图建立联系？
Worst of all, he would often refuse to go to sleep.
最糟糕的是，他经常拒绝睡觉。
Or he'd sleep, and then be up for the day at 3:00 AM.
或者他会睡觉，然后在凌晨 3:00 起床开始新的一天。
The only time Ben doesn't require direct supervision is when he is asleep, which means if he's up, one of us is up, usually Karen.
本唯一不需要直接监督的时候是他睡着的时候，这意味着如果他起床了，我们中的一个人也会起床，通常是凯伦。
In 13 years, Karen hadn't had one night of unbroken sleep.
13年来，凯伦没有睡过一晚不间断的睡眠。
Summers were the worst.
夏天是最糟糕的。
With no school, Ben was bored, which led to more tantrums and destructive behavior.
由于没有上学，本感到无聊，这导致了更多的脾气和破坏性行为。
It also meant no chance for Karen to grab an hour or two of sleep in the afternoon to make up for the night.
这也意味着凯伦没有机会在下午睡一两个小时来弥补晚上的不足。
It was this crushing exhaustion that finally did it.
正是这种令人心碎的疲惫最终做到了。
This was starting to feel like it was, like, a fatal-- Ben's autism was becoming a fatal condition for me personally.
我开始觉得这是致命的——本的自闭症正在成为我个人的致命病症。
I was exhausted and can't function.
我已经筋疲力尽，无法工作了。
And so I just couldn't do it, just I was done.
所以我就是做不到，只是我已经完成了。
I couldn't do it.
我做不到。
It was just such agony over the years, taking care of Ben.
这些年来照顾本真是太痛苦了。
And there really was no one that could sort of save us or save me or save him from this horrible situation.
确实没有人可以拯救我们、拯救我或拯救他脱离这种可怕的情况。
There just wasn't sort of enough help or enough money or anything in the world to really make this tolerable year after year after year.
世界上没有足够的帮助或足够的资金或任何东西来真正让这种情况年复一年地变得可以忍受。
Then Ben started doing worse in school.
然后本在学校的表现开始恶化。
He was regressing.
他正在倒退。
His behavior and toileting were worse than the year before.
他的行为和如厕情况比前一年更糟糕。
It really became clear that this is really bad for Ben.
很明显，这对本来说真的很糟糕。
The best thing now isn't for him to have the nurturing of his mother 24/7.
现在对他来说最好的事情不是有他母亲24/7的养育。
And I know you were ready for that to happen sooner.
我知道你已经准备好让这一切早点发生。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, it felt nice being-- honestly, it felt nice really for us to be on the same page about this for the first time.
嗯，感觉很好——老实说，我们第一次在这个问题上达成共识感觉很好。
It just felt nice being-- and part of it was it felt nice not having to feel like the parent who wasn't as good a parent.
感觉很好——部分原因是感觉很好，不必感觉自己像一个不那么好的父母。
Because, in a way, it just felt like, well, am I really not as good a person, like, because I want to send our kid away?
因为，在某种程度上，感觉就像是，好吧，我真的不是一个好人吗，就像，因为我想把我们的孩子送走？
And so--
所以——
I never thought you weren't a good parent.
我从来不认为你不是一个好父母。
Even more extreme-- Karen Royko You never tried to talk me into it or convince me.
更极端的是——凯伦·罗伊科（Karen Royko）你从来没有试图说服我或说服我。
Well, I think part of it is I never really felt it was really open for discussion.
嗯，我认为部分原因是我从来没有真正感觉到它可以真正开放讨论。
I mean, I felt it was just such a basic thing.
我的意思是，我觉得这只是一件基本的事情。
How could I argue that Ben shouldn't be with mom and dad?
我怎么能说本不应该和爸爸妈妈在一起呢？
At last, we were together on this-- the single biggest decision ever in the life of our family.
最后，我们共同做出了这个决定——这是我们家庭一生中最重大的决定。
But there was one more person in the house whose opinion mattered, and that was Ben's twin brother, Jake.
但家里还有一个人的意见很重要，那就是本的双胞胎兄弟杰克。
And we still had some convincing to do.
我们还有一些令人信服的工作要做。
Well, the first time I heard them mention it, I was-- I thought it was just so they could have more time on their hands, and I was pretty angry about that.
嗯，当我第一次听到他们提到这件事时，我以为这只是为了让他们有更多的时间，对此我很生气。
And I told them, like, stop trying to convince yourself that this is for Ben.
我告诉他们，不要再试图说服自己这是给本的。
It was a good point.
这是一个很好的观点。
Were we doing this for Ben or for ourselves?
我们这样做是为了本还是为了我们自己？
Karen and I had asked ourselves this question too.
凯伦和我也问过自己这个问题。
And if sending Ben away had only been for the benefit of the three of us, we wouldn't have done it.
如果送走本只是为了我们三个人的利益，我们就不会这么做。
Instead of being bothered by what Jake said, I was actually touched.
我并没有被杰克的话所困扰，反而被感动了。
Because after all he'd been through, all the plans canceled and events ruined, you'd still empathize with Ben, who could be so hard to empathize with.
因为在他经历了这一切之后，所有的计划都被取消了，所有的事情都被毁了，你仍然会同情本，他可能很难同情。
But even Jake's empathy had to take a back seat to the reality-- that it was time for Ben to go.
但即使是杰克的同理心也不得不退居二线，面对现实——本是时候离开了。
Do you remember what it was-- where the turning point was for you?
你还记得那是什么——你的转折点在哪里吗？
When it went from feeling like we were sending him away just for our own sake, versus the turning point where you really felt like it was a thing that was necessary?
当它从感觉我们只是为了我们自己而把他送走，到你真正觉得这是一件必要的事情的转折点时？
That one night with the banging and the hitting and the screaming and the sobbing and the more sobbing and the scratching and the banging and the pounding through doors.
那天晚上，敲门声、殴打声、尖叫声、抽泣声、抽泣声、抓挠声、敲门声和敲门声。
You remember it.
你还记得吧。
I remembered it.
我记住了。
It was a long, nasty tantrum late one night, where Ben lunged at me over and over with all his weight, and I ended up bloody and bruised, holding his bedroom door closed while he smashed himself against it for hours, trying to get out.
一天深夜，本发脾气了，他一次又一次地用全身的力量向我猛扑，结果我浑身是血、淤青，我把他的卧室门关上，而他则用自己的身体撞了几个小时，试图逃出去。
This was extreme.
这太极端了。
I mean, there was, like, pounding and it sounded like there was punching going on.
我的意思是，有类似的撞击声，听起来就像有人在打拳。
I'm not sure if there was.
我不确定是否有。
Well, he's certainly not happy.
嗯，他肯定不高兴。
If he's throwing tantrums like that, he's not happy here-- not happy enough.
如果他像那样发脾气，他在这里不快乐——不够快乐。
The one thing that likely never will be resolved in all of this, the thought that wakes me up in the middle of the night, is what is Ben thinking right now?
在这一切中，有一件事可能永远不会得到解决，半夜把我吵醒的一个想法是，本现在在想什么？
Does he know he will see us again, that we still love him?
他知道他会再次见到我们，我们仍然爱他吗？
An autistic child can't conceive of other people's subjective inner life, and that means he probably can't really wonder if we still love him, because the idea that we feel anything at all is inconceivable to him.
一个自闭症儿童无法想象别人的主观内心生活，这意味着他可能无法真正怀疑我们是否还爱他，因为我们感受到任何事情的想法对他来说都是不可思议的。
But he certainly can wonder why the people he loves most in the world, that he has always known and relied upon and trusted, have abandoned him.
但他当然可以想知道为什么世界上他最爱的人，他一直认识、依赖和信任的人都抛弃了他。
In June, we drove Ben to his new life.
六月，我们载着本开始了他的新生活。
We were extremely lucky to live near a facility that was perfect for him-- an hour and a half drive from us in Wisconsin.
我们非常幸运，住在一个非常适合他的设施附近——距离威斯康星州的我们一个半小时车程。
After our meeting with staff and unloading Ben's stuff, it was time for us to go.
在与工作人员会面并卸下本的东西后，我们就该出发了。
It was quick.
很快。
A long goodbye would only make things harder.
漫长的告别只会让事情变得更加困难。
I gave Ben a big bear hug, said I'll see you soon, and headed out the door, as Karen said her farewell, which I couldn't watch.
我给了本一个大大的拥抱，说我很快就会见到你，然后就走出了门，凯伦正在告别，但我无法观看。
Very briskly, we walked down the hall and out of the door, accompanied by the sound of Ben's wailing.
我们轻快地穿过大厅，走出了门，伴随着本的哭声。
It was a strange feeling to leave an unhappy Ben with strangers.
把不开心的本留给陌生人，这种感觉很奇怪。
The familiar urge to swoop in and try to calm Ben down, and protect others from any potential behavioral shrapnel, was hard to resist.
那种熟悉的冲动让人难以抗拒，他想冲进去试图让本平静下来，并保护其他人免受任何潜在行为碎片的影响。
We felt terrible.
我们感觉很糟糕。
But at the same time, we felt liberated.
但与此同时，我们感到解放了。
When we got home that evening, we were so calm that it felt foreign.
那天晚上我们回到家时，我们非常平静，感觉很陌生。
It felt like we were on muscle relaxants.
感觉就像我们服用了肌肉松弛剂。
We hadn't realized just how tense and jangled our nerves had been for 13 years.
13年来，我们并没有意识到我们的神经是多么紧张和刺痛。
We sank into the couch and looked at each other.
我们坐进沙发里，互相看着对方。
Karen said, this must be what it's like to be let out of prison.
凯伦说，这就是出狱的感觉吧。
Jake and his friends were upstairs, and Karen got the idea to take them for ice cream.
杰克和他的朋友在楼上，凯伦想出了带他们去吃冰淇淋的主意。
My immediate reflex was we can't do that.
我的第一反应是我们不能这么做。
And then incredibly, three minutes later, we were in the car getting ice cream, like we'd gone through a tunnel and came out in another universe.
然后令人难以置信的是，三分钟后，我们在车里买冰淇淋，就像我们穿过隧道，来到了另一个宇宙。
It was even stranger for Jake.
这对杰克来说更奇怪。
He had never known life without autism.
他从来不知道没有自闭症的生活。
The first couple days, when he was gone, I was so relaxed that I was nauseous.
最初几天，当他离开时，我非常放松，以至于感到恶心。
I was, like, sick to my stomach.
我感觉胃不舒服。
I felt, like, butterflies in my stomach.
我感觉肚子里有蝴蝶在跳动。
Like, what now?
就像，现在怎么办？
It's like I was pulled out from my life and put into another with a couple of people who I still know there, and they're with me.
就好像我被从自己的生活中抽出来，和几个我仍然认识的人一起进入另一个生活，他们和我在一起。
But it didn't feel like home anymore.
但感觉不再像家了。
For me, like, home meant stress, and it meant a 5,000 pound brother who could be dangerous at times and hogged the couch.
对我来说，家意味着压力，意味着有一个 5000 磅重的兄弟，他有时会很危险，还会霸占沙发。
When weekly visits with Ben began after his first month, we immediately knew we had done the right thing.
当本在第一个月后开始每周探访时，我们立即知道我们做了正确的事情。
Ben was happy.
本很高兴。
In fact, it is very possible that Ben is happier than he's ever been.
事实上，本很可能比以往任何时候都快乐。
His days are jammed with activities and tasks from morning until night.
他的日子从早到晚都充满了活动和任务。
Every minute is scheduled.
每一分钟都已安排好。
Even the downtime is structured, with rules and responsibilities.
即使是停机时间也是结构化的，有规则和责任。
That's what Ben needs, and we could never have given it to him.
这就是本所需要的，而我们永远无法给他。
And for us, that's what the choice boils down to.
对于我们来说，这就是选择的归结。
I don't have any second thoughts.
我没有任何第二个想法。
I don't feel guilty at all.
我一点也不感到内疚。
I know some people, trying to be nice after he went were like, oh, you must feel so guilty or, oh, how are you and you must be doing-- just assuming that I was really doing terribly.
我知道有些人在他走后试图表现得友善，就像，哦，你一定感到很内疚，或者，哦，你怎么样，你一定做得很好——只是假设我真的做得很糟糕。
And I was like, you know what?
我当时想，你知道吗？
I really feel pretty good.
我真的感觉很好。
I mean, I didn't even have to go to my shrink or anything after.
我的意思是，之后我什至不需要去看心理医生或其他任何事情。
I thought for sure I would be scheduling some appointments with my therapist, but I just feel it was right.
我以为我肯定会安排一些与我的治疗师的约会，但我只是觉得这是正确的。
Last weekend, we had our first home visit with Ben, and it was a joy.
上周末，我们第一次和本一起家访，很高兴。
Ben walked into the house and stared momentarily at things that had changed, like the new couch in the living room.
本走进屋子，盯着那些发生了变化的东西看了一会儿，比如客厅里的新沙发。
Soon we were in the backyard, and he swung on the bench swing for two hours, as happy and relaxed as I have ever seen him.
很快我们就到了后院，他在长凳上荡了两个小时，我从未见过他如此快乐和放松。
He spent the rest of the day with us.
他和我们一起度过了这一天剩下的时间。
And when it was time to go, Ben and I got in the car and headed back to his new home.
到了离开的时间，本和我上了车，回到了他的新家。
A half hour into our drive, Ben said, "The letter D." That was my cue to say, "And D is for?" Ben countered with, "D for a dump truck." And then he said, "D is for daddy."
开车半小时后，本说道：“字母 D。”这就是我要说的提示：“那么 D 代表什么？” Ben 反驳道：“D 代表自卸卡车。”然后他说：“D代表爸爸。”
I glanced in the rear view mirror and Ben was looking right at me, a rarity, and smiling.
我看了一眼后视镜，本罕见地正看着我，并且微笑着。
I reached back and, patting his legs, said, "That's right, Ben.
我向后伸手，拍拍他的腿，说道：“是的，本。
D is for daddy, and daddy loves you so much." He beamed and, choking back tears, I said, "You'll always have daddy."
D代表爸爸，爸爸非常爱你。”他微笑着，我强忍着泪水说：“你永远有爸爸。”
It's very possible Ben was oblivious to the meanings I was laying on our conversation.
本很可能没有注意到我在我们谈话中所表达的含义。
But I swear, it felt to me like we were on exactly the same page.
但我发誓，我感觉我们的观点完全一致。
That's Dave Royko.
那是戴夫·罗伊科。
He's a psychologist in Chicago.
他是芝加哥的一名心理学家。
His sons, Ben and Jake, are now both 25.
他的儿子 Ben 和 Jake 现在都 25 岁了。
Jake is a therapist at a mental health center.
杰克是一家心理健康中心的治疗师。
Ben is living in a facility in Cleveland.
本住在克利夫兰的一个设施中。
David and his wife, Karen, are still living in Chicago, but plan to move full time to Cleveland to be with Ben.
大卫和他的妻子凯伦仍然住在芝加哥，但计划全职搬到克利夫兰与本在一起。
[MUSIC - "I WANNA BE LOVED" BY BUJU BANTON"]
[音乐 - BUJU BANTON 的“我想被爱”]
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Alix Spiegel and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Jane Marie, Lisa Pollak, and Nancy Updike.
图片来源：Ira Glass 嗯，我们今天的节目是由我和阿利克斯·斯皮格尔、亚历克斯·布隆伯格、黛安·库克、简·玛丽、丽莎·波拉克和南希·厄普代克共同制作的。
Senior producer for today's show is Julie Snyder.
今天节目的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Music help today from Mr. Terry Miller.
今天由特里·米勒先生提供音乐帮助。
Additional production help from Aviva DeKornfeld, Jarrett Floyd, Kathy Hong, Seth Lind, Stowe Nelson, and Matt Tierney.
Aviva DeKornfeld、Jarrett Floyd、Kathy Hong、Seth Lind、Stowe Nelson 和 Matt Tierney 提供了额外的制作帮助。
Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 600 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org，您可以在其中完全免费地观看我们的 600 多集档案。
Or you can download as many shows as you want, watch our videos, and do other stuff using This American Life app.
或者，您可以使用“This American Life”应用程序下载任意数量的节目、观看我们的视频以及执行其他操作。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our programs co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who I tried-- I tried talking him into starting this radio show for years, until that one night--
一如既往地感谢我们的节目联合创始人托里·马拉蒂亚先生，多年来我一直试图说服他开始这个广播节目，直到有一天晚上——
That one night with the banging, and the hitting, and the screaming, and the sobbing, and the more sobbing, and the scratching, and the banging, and the pounding through doors that-- you remember it.
那天晚上，敲门声、敲击声、尖叫声、抽泣声、抽泣声、抓挠声、敲门声、敲门声——你还记得。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。