313: Parental Guidance Suggested - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #313 | May 19, 2006 313: Parental Guidance Suggested Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 313 集 | 2006 年 5 月 19 日 313：家长指导 建议注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Sitting in the chair operating a video camera, her feet do not even touch the ground.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 坐在椅子上操作摄像机，她的脚甚至没有接触地面。
Her hair is braided in pigtails, Jasmine is just nine years old.
头发扎成辫子，茉莉才九岁。
On her video, first she interviews her mom, and then her mom interviews her.
在她的视频中，她首先采访了她的妈妈，然后她的妈妈采访了她。
Yes.
是的。
Jasmine's Mom Do you know how proud I am of you?
茉莉花的妈妈你知道我有多为你骄傲吗？
Yes.
是的。
Jasmine's Mom What do you want to be when you grow up?
茉莉的妈妈 你长大后想做什么？
A medical professor.
一位医学教授。
Ira Glass This is all taking place in a Texas prison.
艾拉·格拉斯 这一切都发生在得克萨斯州的一所监狱里。
Jasmine's mom is in for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
茉莉花的妈妈因使用致命武器而遭受严重袭击。
Jasmine's here with her Girl Scout troop.
茉莉花和她的女童子军在这里。
Everybody in the troop has a mom in prison.
部队里的每个人都有一个在监狱里的妈妈。
There are dozens of Girl Scout troops like this all across the country.
全国各地有数十支这样的女童子军。
A couple of filmmakers, Ellen Spiro and Karen Bernstein, put together a film about this troop called Troop 1500.
两位电影制片人艾伦·斯皮罗 (Ellen Spiro) 和凯伦·伯恩斯坦 (Karen Bernstein) 制作了一部关于这支部队的电影，名为《部队 1500》。
And as part of it, they were there as the girls and their moms interviewed each other.
作为其中的一部分，当女孩们和她们的妈妈互相采访时，他们也在场。
How are you doing in school?
你在学校过得怎么样？
Jasmine Great.
茉莉花 太棒了
What do you went us to do when I come home?
我回家后你去我们家做什么？
Go to the zoo.
去动物园吧。
Jasmine's Mom What's your favorite color?
茉莉花的妈妈你最喜欢什么颜色？
Blue.
蓝色的。
Jasmine's Mom I thought it was purple.
茉莉花的妈妈我以为它是紫色的。
I like a whole lot of colors.
我喜欢很多颜色。
I like maroon and blue and purple.
我喜欢栗色、蓝色和紫色。
There are so many moments like this when the girls talk with their moms.
女孩们与妈妈交谈时，这样的时刻有很多。
Some of the girls do not want to disagree with their moms about anything, even when their mom gets their favorite color wrong.
有些女孩不想在任何事情上与妈妈意见不同，即使妈妈弄错了她们最喜欢的颜色。
Other girls, it's hard to imagine how they're ever going to work it out with their moms.
其他女孩，很难想象她们将如何与妈妈一起解决这个问题。
What's going on between them is like this thick web of cable that nobody is ever going to be able to untangle.
他们之间发生的事情就像这张厚厚的电缆网，没有人能够解开。
Jessica is nine.
杰西卡九岁了。
She wears big, silver headphones that are plugged into the camera.
她戴着银色的大耳机，插入相机。
When her mom talks, Jessica hugs the big legal pad with her questions tightly to her chest.
当她妈妈说话时，杰西卡抱着大便笺簿，把问题紧紧地抱在胸前。
OK, let's see.
好吧，让我们看看。
I don't remember what I asked first.
我不记得我首先问了什么。
(SUBJECT) JESSICA It doesn't matter.
（主题）杰西卡：没关系。
Start from number one.
从第一开始。
OK, don't be acting silly now.
好了，现在别再犯傻了。
Let's not act retarded, OK?
我们不要表现得很迟钝，好吗？
Move your hair out of your eyes first.
首先将头发从眼睛上移开。
What do you say when people ask you where your mom is?
当人们问你妈妈在哪里时你会怎么说？
(SUBJECT) JESSICA Yes.
（主题）杰西卡 是的。
Jessica's Mom Does it embarrass you?
杰西卡的妈妈这让你感到尴尬吗？
(SUBJECT) JESSICA No, you ask me, are you mad at me.
（主题）杰西卡 不，你问我，你生我的气吗？
I'll ask you that in a minute.
我一会儿就会问你这个问题。
Jessica, come on baby.
杰西卡，来吧，宝贝。
Put your legs together.
将双腿并拢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Do you like coming here with the Girl Scouts to see me?
你喜欢和女童子军一起来这里看我吗？
(SUBJECT) JESSICA Duh.
（主题）杰西卡 呃。
Jessica's Mom Yeah.
杰西卡的妈妈 是的。
That's good.
那挺好的。
Have you learned any tricks on your new bike?
您在新自行车上学到了什么技巧吗？
Yeah, that'd be a good one.
是的，那会是一件好事。
Let me see--.
让我看看——。
(SUBJECT) JESSICA Mom, I need to go to the restroom.
（主题）杰西卡妈妈，我要去趟洗手间。
(SUBJECT) JESSICA I need to go very bad.
（主题）杰西卡 我需要变得非常糟糕。
Jessica, can't you just hold on just another minute?
杰西卡，你不能再坚持一分钟吗？
Do you know how much I love you?
你知道我有多爱你吗？
(SUBJECT) JESSICA To the stars and to the world and back.
（主题）杰西卡 到星星，到世界，然后回来。
Say it right.
说对了。
(SUBJECT) JESSICA To the stars and to the world and back.
（主题）杰西卡 到星星，到世界，然后回来。
Other moms sound like really good mothers, doing everything possible under the circumstances to be close to their girls.
其他妈妈听起来像是真正的好妈妈，在这种情况下尽一切努力来接近她们的女儿。
And you just kind of cross your fingers for them that it's going to be enough.
你只需为他们祈祷，这就足够了。
Kenya is a neatly put together inmate in a white prison jumpsuit.
肯尼亚是一名身穿白色监狱连身裤、穿着整齐的囚犯。
She's in for possession with intent to distribute, and gives heartfelt answers when her 14 year old, Caitlin, asks a series of astonishingly direct questions.
当她 14 岁的凯特琳提出一系列令人惊讶的直接问题时，她给出了衷心的答案。
When you get out of prison, will you still have a boyfriend who does drugs?
出狱后，你还会有吸毒的男朋友吗？
Why did you start selling drugs again after you'd already been in prison for it once before?
为什么你已经入狱一次之后又开始贩毒呢？
I worked.
我工作。
You know I had a job, but it wasn't enough money.
你知道我有一份工作，但钱不够。
It was just a decision I made, which was a wrong decision.
这只是我做出的决定，这是一个错误的决定。
I wanted things, and I went about it the wrong way to get it.
我想要一些东西，但我却以错误的方式得到了它。
OK.
好的。
Were you around drugs when you were little?
你小时候接触过毒品吗？
My mother.
我的母亲。
My mother always sold marijuana.
我妈妈总是卖大麻。
And when I was 12, my mother started doing crack.
当我 12 岁的时候，我妈妈开始吸毒。
Well, she's been clean for about 16 years.
嗯，她已经干净了大约16年了。
My mom didn't go to prison, but she was gone from me all the time, and I know how it feels.
我妈妈没有进监狱，但她一直离开我，我知道那是什么感觉。
And I felt like she didn't love me.
而且我感觉她不爱我。
I felt like she didn't care about me, because she'd just leave.
我感觉她并不关心我，因为她会离开。
And I don't want y'all to feel like that.
我不希望你们有这样的感觉。
Like, what do you mean?
比如，你什么意思？
Kenya You know how she's dramatic and stuff.
肯尼亚 你知道她有多戏剧化之类的。
You know how she cries or she gets upset or she's really emotional?
你知道她怎么哭、怎么生气、怎么情绪化吗？
That's grown up stuff she's going through.
这是她正在经历的长大的事情。
Don't concern yourself with that, because your job is to go to school, stay out of trouble, be a kid.
别担心这个，因为你的工作就是去上学，远离麻烦，做个孩子。
Like you told me the other day that grandma is stressed out about money.
就像你前几天告诉我的那样，奶奶对钱的压力很大。
Well, that's not your concern, because you're not even old enough to get a job yet.
好吧，这不是你关心的，因为你还没有到找到工作的年龄。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
What could you do?
你能做什么？
Of course it's hard just being a kid when your mom is in prison.
当然，当你妈妈在监狱里时，作为一个孩子是很困难的。
What can your mom really say to you that's going to help?
你妈妈能对你说什么真正有帮助的吗？
She can't make you a nice meal, or give you a nice place to live.
她不能给你做一顿美餐，也不能给你一个好住的地方。
She can't read to you at night or tuck you into bed.
她不能在晚上读书给你听，也不能给你盖被子。
She can't be there to hear about your day.
她不能在那里听到你的一天。
All she can do is hug you, show you that she loves you, give a little advice maybe, and just hope that's going to hold you, and you'll be OK until the next visit.
她所能做的就是拥抱你，向你表明她爱你，也许给你一点建议，并希望这能支撑你，让你在下次拜访之前一切都好。
Well, today on our radio show, Parental Guidance Suggested.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目《家长指导建议》中。
We have a bunch of stories where kids are not allowed to be kids, where they want somebody to look out for them and be the parent, and where parents get into impossible situations where it's hard to be a parent, which, I got to say, sometimes makes for really sad stories, and sometimes makes for really, really funny stories.
我们有很多故事，其中孩子们不被允许成为孩子，他们希望有人照顾他们并成为父母，以及父母陷入不可能的境地，很难成为父母，我不得不说，这有时会产生非常悲伤的故事，有时会产生非常非常有趣的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our show today in three acts-- act one, Two Possibilities, Both of Them Bad.
我们今天的演出分三幕——第一幕，两种可能性，都很糟糕。
In that act, a kid and a parent face an impossible choice together.
在那一幕中，孩子和父母共同面临一个不可能的选择。
Act two, The Grandma Letters, a miserable teenager and his miserable grandma correspond.
第二幕，《奶奶的信》，一个悲惨的少年和他悲惨的奶奶的书信往来。
Act three, My Angels in the Centerfolds.
第三幕，我的插页天使。
In that act, a 10 year old girl starts her own business with a phone, a collection of index cards, and her dad's old Playboy magazines.
在那一幕中，一个 10 岁的女孩用一部手机、一系列索引卡和她父亲的旧《花花公子》杂志开始了自己的生意。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act one, Two Possibilities, Both Bad.
第一幕，两种可能性，都不好。
What's amazing about this story is that the people in it make one reasonable choice after another.
这个故事的奇妙之处在于，里面的人做出了一个又一个合理的选择。
But they're living in such an unreasonable time and place that eventually, they're forced into a position that no family should ever really be in at all.
但他们生活在一个如此不合理的时间和地点，最终，他们被迫陷入任何家庭都不应该真正处于的境地。
It all happened to Gene Cheek.
这一切都发生在吉恩·奇克身上。
And when the story begins, he's 10 years old, growing up in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
故事开始时，他 10 岁，在北卡罗来纳州温斯顿塞勒姆长大。
It's 1961.
现在是 1961 年。
His parents split up long ago.
他的父母很早以前就分手了。
He lives with his mom.
他和他妈妈住在一起。
And partly because it's just the two of them, they're really, really close.
部分原因是只有他们两个人，他们真的非常非常亲密。
She spends a lot of time with him.
她花了很多时间和他在一起。
And one day, he comes in from playing outside.
有一天，他在外面玩完回来。
And Mama was on the phone crying.
妈妈在电话里哭了。
And I thought somebody had died or something was wrong.
我以为有人死了或者出了什么问题。
So I stood at her door for a minute.
所以我在她门口站了一分钟。
And she eventually, after much pressure from me, eventually told me that that was her boyfriend on the phone, or a man that she had been seeing, is the way she put it.
最终，在我的巨大压力下，她最终告诉我，那是她在电话里的男朋友，或者是她一直在约会的一个男人，这是她的说法。
And I didn't even know.
我什至不知道。
All she did was work and come home.
她所做的就是工作然后回家。
I didn't know when she had time to have a boyfriend.
我不知道她什么时候有时间交男朋友。
Tuck was what everybody called him.
大家都这么称呼他塔克。
His name was Cornelius Tucker.
他的名字叫科尼利厄斯·塔克。
And my mom and Tuck worked together, and we talked about it.
我妈妈和塔克一起工作，我们讨论了这件事。
And I said, why are you crying?
我说，你为什么哭？
What'd he do to make you cry?
他做了什么让你哭的事？
And she said, nothing.
她说，没什么。
He thinks we should stop seeing each other for your sake.
他认为为了你我们应该停止见面。
And I said, well, why does he think I will have a problem with him seeing you?
我说，好吧，为什么他认为我会不愿意他见你呢？
And she said, because he's black.
她说，因为他是黑人。
Was there any part of you at that point which flinched a little when she said that?
当她说这句话的时候，你的内心有没有一点退缩？
You're a little kid growing up in the south.
你是一个在南方长大的小孩子。
You probably didn't have much contact, or were close to any black people.
您可能没有太多接触，或者与任何黑人关系密切。
I did flinch a little.
我确实有点退缩了。
We didn't live too far from the African American community, a couple of streets over.
我们住的地方离非裔美国人社区不太远，只有几条街的距离。
So you would see them in your daily lives, going through their neighborhoods, or going through yours to get to theirs.
所以你会在日常生活中看到他们，穿过他们的社区，或者穿过你的社区到达他们的社区。
But that was it, really.
但确实就是这样。
Jim Crow civil rights was at its beginning.
吉姆·克劳民权才刚刚开始。
Blacks were being killed, lynched, beaten.
黑人被杀害、私刑处死、殴打。
I was aware that this was not going to be a very popular thing.
我知道这不会是一件很受欢迎的事情。
And so how soon after that did you finally meet Tuck?
那之后多久你终于见到了塔克？
A couple of days later.
几天后。
He wanted to give me a birthday present, even though it wasn't my birthday.
他想送我一份生日礼物，尽管那天不是我的生日。
So he drove by at night and circled our block.
所以他晚上开车经过我们的街区。
I walked outside our apartment and walked around the corner.
我走出我们的公寓，绕过拐角处。
And he went by to make sure he wasn't being followed, circled back, and the second time around, he slowed down, rolled down his window, and said catch, and threw out a football.
他经过以确定自己没有被跟踪，然后绕了回来，第二次，他放慢了速度，摇下车窗，说“接住”，然后扔出了一个足球。
And could you even see him?
你甚至能看到他吗？
Or was it just this mysterious voice and then a football?
或者只是这个神秘的声音，然后是一个足球？
Yeah, it was night, and I couldn't see him, really.
是的，当时是晚上，我真的看不到他。
You could see a figure inside the car.
可以看到车内有一个人影。
I assumed it was him.
我以为是他。
Mama told me what kind of car he would be driving.
妈妈告诉我他会开什么样的车。
That is so secret agent.
这真是特工啊。
Was this pretty much the coolest thing that had ever happened to you?
这对你来说是发生过的最酷的事情吗？
Oh yeah, definitely.
哦，是的，当然。
And it was exactly that, secret agent man.
正是如此，特工。
Now this is 1961, so it's six years before the Supreme Court rules that interracial marriage is legal nationwide.
现在是 1961 年，距离最高法院裁定跨种族婚姻在全国范围内合法已经过去了六年。
Was it legal for her to see him?
她见他合法吗？
It was not legal.
这是不合法的。
Well, it was illegal for them to be boyfriend- girlfriend, or any other kind of relationship, as far as that goes.
好吧，就目前而言，他们成为男女朋友或任何其他类型的关系都是违法的。
And so would you start to see him?
那么你会开始见他吗？
Were you in situations where it would be the three of you and you would hang out?
你们是否遇到过只有你们三个一起出去玩的情况？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Mom and I would leave our house after dark and we would walk around the corner.
天黑后我和妈妈会离开家，然后走到拐角处。
Normally we would cover our faces as much as possible.
通常我们会尽可能地遮住脸。
Mama wore a scarf, and I had a coat that I would pull up the collar on, and a baseball cap, and that kind of thing.
妈妈戴着围巾，我穿了一件外套，可以把领子拉起来，还有一顶棒球帽，诸如此类的东西。
And again, Tuck would circle by and keep going, to make sure he wasn't followed.
塔克会再次绕过并继续前行，以确保他不会被跟踪。
And he would turn around and come back from the other direction, pull up to the curb and we would jump in.
他会转身从另一个方向回来，把车停在路边，我们就会跳进去。
And when you were in the car, would you have to duck down so people couldn't see you?
当你在车里时，你是否必须低下身子以免人们看到你？
Yeah.
是的。
I would be scrunched down in the seat, so that I wasn't as visible.
我会蜷缩在座位上，这样就不那么明显了。
Normally, we would pull up in his driveway and sit in the car for a minute or two just to make sure that we hadn't been followed.
通常情况下，我们会把车停在他的车道上，然后在车里坐一两分钟，以确保我们没有被跟踪。
We would get out, and it would be dark, of course, and the porch light would not be on.
我们出去，当然，天就黑了，门廊的灯也不会亮。
And we would go into the house and do what normal people did-- talk, play games, Monopoly , card games, watch TV, listened to the radio, listened to the stereo, played marbles on his floor.
我们会走进房子，做正常人做的事——说话、玩游戏、玩大富翁、打牌、看电视、听广播、听音响、在地板上玩弹珠。
He had a carpet and he would take a piece of chalk and draw a circle on the carpet, and we would shoot marbles.
他有一块地毯，他会拿一支粉笔在地毯上画一个圆圈，我们会射击弹珠。
Tuck was an amazing human being, and he had a way of just immediately putting you at ease.
塔克是一个了不起的人，他有办法立即让你放松下来。
After the first night that I met him and spent time at his house, it was easy for me to see how mama had fallen in love with him.
在我见到他并在他家度过的第一个晚上之后，我很容易看出妈妈是如何爱上他的。
He was just that kind of a man.
他就是这样的一个人。
And then would you stay over there, and then go to school from there in the morning?
然后你会留在那儿，然后早上从那里去上学吗？
No. No, we never spent the night.
不，不，我们从来没有过夜。
And Tuck had made it plain that we had to be very careful.
塔克明确表示我们必须非常小心。
I was oblivious.
我浑然不觉。
I was just caught up in the espionage of it all-- that I had a secret that nobody else knew.
我只是陷入了这一切的间谍活动中——我有一个别人不知道的秘密。
Oh right, you couldn't even tell kids at school.
哦，对了，你甚至不能告诉学校的孩子们。
Oh, heck no. God no. I couldn't tell anybody.
哦，哎呀，不。天哪，不。我不能告诉任何人。
I couldn't tell my best friend.
我无法告诉我最好的朋友。
Couldn't tell anyone.
无法告诉任何人。
And how far did it go?
到底走了多远？
Like how often was there something where there was trouble?
比如有多少次出现麻烦的事情？
Well, we got chased.
好吧，我们被追赶了。
The police would come by and they would knock on the door, or just open the door sometimes, and just walk right in.
警察过来时会敲门，或者有时只是打开门，然后径直走进去。
And we would be sitting in the living room talking, or sitting at the kitchen table playing games, and they would say, nigger, what are you doing with this white woman?
我们会坐在客厅里聊天，或者坐在厨房的桌子旁玩游戏，他们会说，黑鬼，你在和这个白人女人做什么？
And he would say, we're just friends.
他会说，我们只是朋友。
We're just visiting.
我们只是来参观。
And then they would say something to my mom, don't you know better?
然后他们会对我妈妈说一些话，你不知道吗？
What's your son doing here?
你儿子在这里做什么？
And she said, well, what's wrong with my son being here?
她说，好吧，我儿子在这里有什么问题吗？
Well, you can't stay here.
好吧，你不能留在这里。
Don't you know it's illegal for you and that nigger to be sleeping together?
难道你不知道你和那个黑鬼睡在一起是违法的吗？
But they would always say, you and your boy are going to have to leave.
但他们总是说，你和你的儿子必须离开。
And Tuck would say, OK, they were just leaving.
塔克会说，好吧，他们正要离开。
I'll take them home.
我会带他们回家。
And they would say, oh, hell no, nigger, we'll take them home.
他们会说，哦，不，黑鬼，我们会把他们带回家。
You're lucky we don't arrest you.
你很幸运我们没有逮捕你。
So that's usually the way it went.
所以事情通常都是这样的。
That happened how many times?
这样的事发生了几次？
Gene Cheek It would happen once a month probably, or once every six weeks.
吉恩·奇克 这可能每月发生一次，或者每六周发生一次。
Once it was known that mama was seeing Tuck--.
一旦得知妈妈正在和塔克约会——。
How did it get to be known?
它是如何被认识的？
Gene Cheek Well, my dad followed my mom-- my biological father had followed my mom.
吉恩·奇克 嗯，我爸爸跟着我妈妈——我的亲生父亲跟着我妈妈。
Him and his brother followed my mom to Tuck's house.
他和他的兄弟跟着我妈妈去了塔克家。
There was one time when the cops came and as we walked outside Tuck's house, I could see my dad and his brother parked down the street.
有一次，警察来了，当我们走出塔克的房子时，我看到我爸爸和他的兄弟把车停在街上。
So I knew who had brought the cops with them.
所以我知道是谁带来了警察。
So your dad called the cops on your mom.
所以你爸爸就报警抓捕你妈妈。
Why?
为什么？
Well, because he was full of hate.
好吧，因为他充满了仇恨。
It was bad enough that his wife had left him, but she was now seeing a black man.
他的妻子离开了他已经够糟糕的了，但她现在却看到了一个黑人。
My dad was a stone cold racist, and that was more than he could stand.
我父亲是一个冷酷的种族主义者，这是他无法忍受的。
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Oh God yeah.
天哪，是的。
Ira Glass What would he say?
艾拉·格拉斯 他会说什么？
He would say it was unnatural, and it was against God's law, and those kinds of things.
他会说这是不自然的，违反了上帝的律法，诸如此类。
He would use the analogy, you don't see a black bird and a red bird together.
他会用这样的比喻，你不会看到一只黑鸟和一只红鸟在一起。
And I always wanted to say, well yeah those are different species there, Dad, not just different colors.
我一直想说，是的，爸爸，这些是不同的物种，而不仅仅是不同的颜色。
And so Tuck and your mom, they also got fired from their jobs, right?
所以塔克和你妈妈，他们也被解雇了，对吧？
They did.
他们做到了。
My little brother was born.
我的小弟弟出生了。
That kind of changed things.
这改变了事情。
It's pretty difficult to hide that.
隐藏这一点非常困难。
They got fired from their jobs at the mill.
他们被工厂解雇了。
My mom's family, my dad's family, our friends, everybody disowned us, walked out of our lives, didn't have anything to do with us after Randy was born.
我妈妈的家人，我爸爸的家人，我们的朋友，每个人都与我们断绝关系，走出了我们的生活，在兰迪出生后与我们没有任何关系。
My aunt-- her sister-- came to visit her in the hospital.
我的姨妈——她的妹妹——来医院看望她。
She had checked into the hospital under an assumed name.
她以化名入住医院。
But Aunt Goldie went to see her, and when she saw Randy, she said, Sally, this baby ain't white.
但是戈尔迪阿姨去看她，当她看到兰迪时，她说，莎莉，这个孩子不是白人。
And Mama said, I know Goldie, but he's still my son.
妈妈说，我认识戈尔迪，但他仍然是我的儿子。
And Aunt Goldie handed Randy back to Mama, and walked out of our lives.
戈尔迪姨妈把兰迪还给了妈妈，然后就退出了我们的生活。
And it was 30 years later before they ever spoke again.
三十年后，他们才再次说话。
And about eight months after Randy was born, we had gone to bed one night during the week, and I was awakened at 2 o'clock in the morning by sounds outside.
兰迪出生后大约八个月，我们在工作日的一个晚上上床睡觉，凌晨两点我被外面的声音吵醒。
And I could see through the curtain that there was something burning, and I didn't really know what it was.
透过窗帘我可以看到有东西在燃烧，但我真的不知道那是什么。
And when I pulled back the curtain, I could see three Klansmen.
当我拉开窗帘时，我可以看到三个三K党成员。
One of them had a shotgun, and was shooting it into the air, which is what had woke me up.
其中一个拿着一把猎枪，正在向空中射击，这就是把我吵醒的原因。
And they had put a cross on the yard and were shouting racial slurs-- death to nigger lovers, and those kinds of things.
他们在院子里挂了一个十字架，并高喊着种族歧视的口号——黑鬼爱好者该死，诸如此类。
And Mama woke up.
妈妈醒了。
And when she came in, she said, get away from the window.
当她进来时，她说，远离窗户。
It's the Klan.
这是三K党。
And of course, I know what the Klan was.
当然，我知道三K党是什么。
And I said, what are they doing here?
我说，他们在这里做什么？
And she said, they're here because of your brother.
她说，他们来这里是因为你哥哥。
And I was just infuriated.
我只是被激怒了。
We spent the night sitting in the living room.
我们坐在客厅里过夜。
And I had gone to the kitchen and got a butcher knife, and I'd taken a chair and set it facing the front door, and sat there thinking they were going to bust in at any minute.
我去了厨房，拿了一把屠刀，拿了一把椅子，面向前门，坐在那里，以为他们随时都会闯进来。
And we didn't have a phone, so we couldn't call anybody.
而且我们没有电话，所以我们无法给任何人打电话。
If she could have called somebody, was there actually somebody who she could have called, who could have come over?
如果她可以打电话给某人，那么她是否真的可以打电话给某人，谁可以过来？
She could have called Tuck.
她本可以打电话给塔克。
The police probably would not have done anything at that time.
警察当时可能不会采取任何行动。
Could she have called her family?
她可以给家人打电话吗？
Wouldn't they have stepped in to rescue you, even if they were having this fight?
即使他们在打架，他们也不会出手救你吗？
No, not at this point.
不，目前还不行。
No. Her family had turned their backs on her and her family would not have lifted a finger.
不。她的家人已经背弃了她，她的家人也不会动一根手指头。
Her \ probably sent the Klan in the first place, if you want to know the truth about it.
如果你想知道真相的话，她可能首先派出了三K党。
She had nobody.
她没有人。
Why not just move north?
为什么不直接向北移动呢？
Gene Cheek Well, we had talked about it.
吉恩·奇克 嗯，我们已经讨论过了。
Tuck asked me.
塔克问我。
He said that we could move up north and be more like a family.
他说我们可以搬到北方去，更像一家人。
He said, your mom and I could even get married.
他说，我和你妈妈甚至可以结婚。
But you got to understand that we didn't have any money.
但你必须明白我们没有钱。
Tuck didn't have any money.
塔克没有钱。
It was not like we could just gather up what we owned and off we went.
我们不可能把我们拥有的东西收拾起来就走。
I know.
我知道。
But so many poor people move north.
但很多穷人向北迁移。
I mean, the whole city of Chicago is like people who had nothing, who just picked up and moved.
我的意思是，整个芝加哥市就像是一无所有的人，只是拾起并搬家。
I know.
我知道。
And the only thing I can look back on now and say is that things happened so fast.
现在回想起来我唯一能说的是事情发生得太快了。
From the time Randy was born, things just spiraled out of control before they could get a handle on it.
从兰迪出生起，事情在他们能够掌控之前就已经失控了。
They didn't expect things to turn out like they did.
他们没想到事情会发展成他们这样。
Things turned out like they did because of what happened next.
事情之所以会像他们那样，是因为接下来发生的事情。
And what happened next is that his mom told him that they had to go to court for child support.
接下来发生的事情是，他妈妈告诉他，他们必须上法庭寻求子女抚养费。
They'd been fighting with his father over child support payments for years, so Gene wasn't especially worried about this.
他们多年来一直与他的父亲就子女抚养费问题争吵，所以吉恩对此并不特别担心。
Mom and I rode the bus downtown, and then walked into the courtroom by ourselves.
我和妈妈坐公交车到市区，然后自己走进法庭。
And we sat on the right side of the courtroom, and on the left side was my dad, his brother, my grandmother, Mom's brother, Uncle Bill, our next door neighbors.
我们坐在法庭的右侧，左侧是我的爸爸、他的兄弟、我的祖母、妈妈的兄弟、比尔叔叔、我们的隔壁邻居。
And on our side of the courtroom was me and Mom.
法庭上我们这边是我和妈妈。
And when the judge walked in, he said, in the matter of the custody of Jesse Eugene Cheek.
当法官走进来时，他说，是关于杰西·尤金·奇克的监护权问题。
And I knew immediately what that meant; that we were not here for child support.
我立刻就明白了这意味着什么；我们来这里不是为了抚养孩子。
And Mom's lawyer didn't show up, he never did show up.
妈妈的律师没有出现，他从来没有出现过。
So it was all downhill after that.
所以在那之后一切都走下坡路了。
She had told her sister the day before this trial that there's no way they'll take Gene away from me, I'm a good mother.
在审判前一天，她告诉她姐姐，他们不可能把吉恩从我身边带走，我是一个好母亲。
And she believed that.
她相信这一点。
She was convinced that they would not take me away from her, because she was a good mother.
她确信他们不会把我从她身边带走，因为她是一位好母亲。
And I'm here to tell you that she was.
我来这里是为了告诉你她是的。
There was nobody in that courtroom that day that could testify that she was not a good mother.
那天法庭上没有人能证明她不是一个好母亲。
And nobody did.
但没有人这样做。
What they did testify was that she had a mixed race baby by an African American man and was therefore unfit.
他们证实，她与一名非裔美国男子生了一个混血婴儿，因此不适合。
Now one strange thing about this case is that your dad wasn't actually trying to get you back himself, right?
这个案子有一件奇怪的事情是你父亲实际上并没有试图亲自把你救回来，对吧？
No. Ira Glass Explain what your dad was arguing in court.
不。艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）解释一下你父亲在法庭上争论的内容。
He was arguing that Mama was unfit.
他争辩说妈妈不适合。
But he told the judge that he, himself was an alcoholic and an epileptic, and could not raise me.
但他告诉法官，他本人是个酒鬼和癫痫病患者，无法抚养我。
His brother-- my uncle-- testified that he could not provide me with a home either, because he had his own family to raise.
他的兄弟——我的叔叔——作证说他也无法为我提供一个家，因为他有自己的家庭要抚养。
My grandmother-- my dad's mom-- testified that she could not offer me a home either, because her doctor had advised her that having a teenage boy in the house would be bad for her health.
我的祖母——我父亲的妈妈——作证说她也不能为我提供一个家，因为她的医生建议她家里有一个十几岁的男孩会对她的健康不利。
And so they all testified that mama was unfit, but they couldn't take me for this reason or that reason.
所以他们都证明妈妈不适合，但他们不能因为这个或那个原因带走我。
It's just so crazy, the notion of a parent going in and saying, well, she's unfit, but I'm unfit too, so I can't take the kid.
父母走进来说，好吧，她不适合，但我也不适合，所以我不能带孩子，这真是太疯狂了。
I've never heard of a custody hearing that works like that.
我从未听说过监护权听证会是这样运作的。
Well, that's exactly what he said.
嗯，他就是这么说的。
I mean, that's honest to God exactly what he said.
我的意思是，他所说的话对上帝来说是诚实的。
My dad was a rare bird.
我的父亲是一只稀有的鸟。
And then when the judge asked your mom, is the father Tuck-- because I know as part of the court proceeding, he actually asked her flat out, is this guy the father of this baby?
然后，当法官问你妈妈，塔克的父亲是——因为我知道，作为法庭诉讼的一部分，他实际上直截了当地问她，这个人是这个孩子的父亲吗？
What did she say?
她说什么？
No. She denied it.
不，她否认了。
She said that the father was a truck driver, who is now deceased.
她说父亲是一名卡车司机，现已去世。
And that's all she said about the matter.
这就是她对此事的全部说法。
And didn't they ask, who is this guy?
他们没有问，这个人是谁？
What's his name?
他叫什么名字？
No, they didn't.
不，他们没有。
Ira Glass Because they just could see that this is a lie?
艾拉·格拉斯 因为他们看得出这是一个谎言？
Sure.
当然。
Well, they knew she was lying.
好吧，他们知道她在撒谎。
But it was a felony for her to admit in a court of law that she had a baby by Cornelius Tucker.
但她在法庭上承认自己与科尼利厄斯·塔克生了一个孩子，这是一项重罪。
So she had to lie about it.
所以她不得不撒谎。
She had to say, no, it's not Cornelius Tucker's baby.
她不得不说，不，这不是科尼利厄斯·塔克的孩子。
The father's dead, I don't remember his name.
父亲去世了，我不记得他的名字了。
It didn't take long for Gene and his mother to figure out this hearing was not going very well for them.
没过多久，吉恩和他的母亲就发现这次听证会对他们来说进展不太顺利。
Gene's mom started crying.
吉恩的妈妈开始哭泣。
He started crying.
他开始哭泣。
Gene says he simply had no idea the world could work the way it was working in the courtroom that day.
吉恩说，他根本不知道世界会像那天在法庭上那样运转。
It was incomprehensible.
这是无法理解的。
It was shocking.
太令人震惊了。
I didn't believe it.
我不相信。
Mama didn't believe it.
妈妈不相信。
We believed right won out.
我们相信正义获胜。
When the judge made his ruling, that it's the ruling of this court that your son be-- actually, he gave my mom a choice.
当法官作出裁决时，法庭的裁决是，你的儿子——实际上，他给了我妈妈一个选择。
He said give up this baby, is the way he put it, I believe, or give up your son.
他说，我相信，按照他的说法，放弃这个孩子，或者放弃你的儿子。
Let me just be sure I'm totally understanding the logic.
让我确定我完全理解其中的逻辑。
The logic of that is, OK, what makes her an unfit mother is that she's got this mixed race baby.
其逻辑是，好吧，让她成为一个不称职的母亲的原因是她有一个混血婴儿。
Right, and I'm around him.
没错，我就在他身边。
Ira Glass And you're around him, and you'll be exposed to this mixed race baby.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：如果你在他身边，你就会接触到这个混血婴儿。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Yeah, it'll rub off on me, I guess.
是的，我想它会对我产生影响。
Whatever.
任何。
And so basically, if you get the baby out of this picture, then she's suddenly a fit mother again by abandoning her baby?
所以基本上，如果你把孩子从这张照片中去掉，那么她会因为抛弃孩子而突然再次成为一个健康的母亲吗？
With the choice he gave her, that's exactly what he was saying, yeah.
他给了她选择，这正是他所说的，是的。
Somehow this will all be better, if they're not around each other.
无论如何，如果他们不在彼此身边，一切都会更好。
It'll all be better.
一切都会更好。
How does that make sense?
这有什么意义呢？
Gene Cheek Yeah, I don't know.
吉恩·奇克 是的，我不知道。
It don't make sense.
这没有道理。
It wasn't meant to make sense.
这本来就没有道理。
It was just more punishment, as far as I was concerned.
就我而言，这只是更多的惩罚。
And so does a judge actually say to her, OK, here you are, just choose which kid are you going to give up?
那么法官是否真的对她说，好吧，你在这里，选择你要放弃哪个孩子？
Not in those exact words.
不是用那些确切的话说。
But his words were-- I'm going to paraphrase-- but he said, Mrs. Cheek, you can give up your illegitimate son, or we're going to take Gene away from you.
但他的话是——我要解释一下——但他说，奇克夫人，你可以放弃你的私生子，否则我们会把吉恩从你身边带走。
One or the other.
一个或另一个。
I just looked at Mama and I leaned over and I whispered and said, Mama, if they take Randy, we'll never see him again.
我只是看着妈妈，俯身低声说，妈妈，如果他们带走兰迪，我们就再也见不到他了。
He's just a baby.
他只是个婴儿。
And I said, I know where home is, let them take me.
我说，我知道家在哪里，让他们带我去吧。
And before she could say anything, I just turned to the judge and said, take me.
在她开口说话之前，我转向法官说，带我去吧。
And so that was enough.
这样就足够了。
He did.
他做到了。
He pounded the gavel and said, it's the ruling of this court that Jesse Eugene Cheek will be removed and placed in the custody of Forsythe County Child Services.
他敲着木槌说，本法院裁决，杰西·尤金·奇克将被移走，并由福赛斯县儿童服务中心监护。
And at that time, two policemen, who had been standing in the back of the courtroom, came down.
这时，站在法庭后面的两名警察也下来了。
And Mama and I were clinging to each other.
我和妈妈紧紧地抱在一起。
I was holding onto her and she was holding onto me.
我抱着她，她也抱着我。
And she was screaming, don't do this, don't do this.
她尖叫着，不要这样做，不要这样做。
And I was cussing, screaming at my dad, I'll kill you for this.
我对着我爸爸咒骂、尖叫，我会为此杀了你。
And so the cops took me by the arms and literally pulled me away, tore me away from my mom, and just drug me out of the courtroom.
于是警察抓住我的手臂，把我从我妈妈身边拉开，然后用毒品把我带出了法庭。
They put me in a police car, drove me to a detention center that was a couple of blocks from the courthouse, for juvenile delinquents.
他们把我塞进警车，送我到距离法院几个街区的一个少年犯看守所。
A lady got up from behind a desk, went to the end of the hall and unlocked a door.
一位女士从桌子后面站起来，走到走廊的尽头，打开了一扇门。
The two policemen pushed me into the room, the door was pulled shut behind me and locked.
两个警察把我推进了房间，门在我身后被拉上并锁上。
And I spent three days in that room.
我在那个房间里呆了三天。
They fed me by slipping trays of food under the door.
他们把一盘盘食物从门底下塞进去喂我。
Those three days, two and a half days, that I spent locked in that room, all I did was cry and sleep, really.
那三天，两天半，我被关在那个房间里，真的就是哭着睡着了。
I was devastated.
我很伤心。
My life had ended as I knew it.
据我所知，我的生命已经结束了。
When I came out of that room, I was an angry kid, and I stayed angry until a few years ago, to be honest with you.
当我走出那个房间时，我是一个愤怒的孩子，老实说，直到几年前我一直保持愤怒。
Gene was sent to a foster home on the other side of town, but he was like a different kid.
吉恩被送到城镇另一边的寄养家庭，但他就像一个不同的孩子。
He was not the well-behaved boy that he'd been.
他不再是以前那个乖孩子了。
He was in the crazy position that he had done the right thing.
他处于疯狂的境地，他做了正确的事。
He'd volunteered to leave his own family, for the sake of everybody.
为了大家的利益，他自愿离开自己的家庭。
It was better for his baby brother.
这对他的小弟弟更好。
It was better for his mom.
这对他妈妈来说更好。
The main person it wasn't better for was him.
对他来说，这不是更好的主要人。
And though he knew he did the right thing, he had other feelings about it too.
尽管他知道自己做了正确的事，但他也有其他的感受。
Somewhere along the line, that little 12 year old boy that got taken away from his mama expected-- as all 12 year old boys do-- that his mama would make things all right.
一路走来，那个被从妈妈身边带走的 12 岁小男孩期望——就像所有 12 岁男孩一样——他的妈妈会让事情好起来。
And I was mad at her because she didn't make things all better.
我对她很生气，因为她没有让事情变得更好。
Right, that she didn't sweep in and move you all north?
对吧，她没有大举进攻并把你们带到北方？
Yeah.
是的。
And that everything was just all better all of a sudden.
一切都突然变得更好了。
And I guess for the first two or three months in that foster home, I held onto the possibility that things would be all right.
我想在那个寄养家庭的前两三个月里，我一直坚信一切都会好起来的。
But you lose hope of that pretty quick.
但你很快就会失去希望。
And I did.
我做到了。
I was a terrible foster kid.
我是一个糟糕的寄养孩子。
I beat the heck out of her own son the first day I was there because he was standing on the back porch-- I had just come back from a walk-- and he said, you're the one with the nigger loving mama.
我第一天就打败了她自己的儿子，因为他站在后门廊上——我刚刚散步回来——他说，你就是那个爱黑鬼妈妈的人。
And it was the wrong time for him to say that.
而且他现在说这句话的时机不对。
So I was a pretty bad kid.
所以我是一个很坏的孩子。
I would skip school and go see my mom, and ride the bus, hitchhike, walk across town, ride a bike.
我会逃学去看妈妈，坐公交车、搭便车、步行穿过城镇、骑自行车。
I would go see her anytime I wanted to.
只要我愿意，我就会随时去看她。
It's a funny kind of juvenile delinquent who's evading a social worker and his foster parents, and nobody knows where he is.
这是一个有趣的少年犯，他躲避社会工作者和他的养父母，而且没有人知道他在哪里。
And where he is, the bad thing he's doing, is going to visit his mom.
而他在哪里，他正在做的坏事就是去看望他的妈妈。
Eventually Gene got in so much trouble for this he was sent away to a facility called Boys Home, 200 miles from Winston-Salem.
最终吉恩因此陷入了很大的麻烦，他被送往距离温斯顿塞勒姆 200 英里的一个名为“男孩之家”的机构。
He could come home 20 days a year, that was it.
他一年只能回家20天，仅此而已。
But at Boys Home, he finally got a more or less normal life.
但在男孩之家，他终于过上了或多或少正常的生活。
He made decent grades, got a girlfriend.
他成绩不错，交了女朋友。
I played sports.
我参加体育运动。
I was popular on campus.
我在校园里很受欢迎。
I fit in.
我很适合。
My anger subsided some, mostly because of sports and those kind of things.
我的愤怒消退了一些，主要是因为运动之类的事情。
And Boys Home was probably the best thing that happened to me.
男孩之家可能是发生在我身上最好的事情。
Because at this point in time, you're 200 miles away, and you know that you can't just walk across town and see your mom.
因为此时，您距离 200 英里，而且您知道您不能步行穿过城镇去见您的妈妈。
So you resolve yourself to this fact, I'm not going home again.
所以你下定决心，我不会再回家了。
The first time that you heard about Tuck, Tuck was saying to your mom, maybe the two of them should split up for your sake.
你第一次听说塔克时，塔克对你妈妈说，也许为了你，他们两个应该分手。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Do you think he might have been right?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）你认为他可能是对的吗？
Well, in hindsight, absolutely.
嗯，事后看来，绝对如此。
And in hindsight, yeah, they probably should have-- but I can tell you one thing.
事后看来，是的，他们可能应该——但我可以告诉你一件事。
I wouldn't change one minute of my life.
我不会改变我生命中的一分钟。
I have two wonderful brothers.
我有两个很棒的兄弟。
Had that happened, I wouldn't have known Tuck.
如果发生这种情况，我就不会认识塔克了。
So I'm glad they didn't end it.
所以我很高兴他们没有结束它。
To be honest with you, I'm glad.
老实说，我很高兴。
I'm happy.
我很高兴。
I wouldn't have it any other way.
我不会有任何其他方式。
Randy's grown up by now.
兰迪现在已经长大了。
Does he ever talk to you about the choice that you made then?
他有没有和你谈论过你当时所做的选择？
Yeah, we've talked about it.
是的，我们已经讨论过了。
Randy grew up thinking I was one of the knights of King Arthur's court.
兰迪从小就以为我是亚瑟王宫廷的骑士之一。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
My mom and Tuck would tell him.
我妈妈和塔克会告诉他。
So he worshipped-- like any little brother would, he worshiped me, but even more so, because in his mind, I had made this sacrifice for him.
所以他崇拜——就像任何小兄弟一样，他崇拜我，但更重要的是，因为在他看来，我为他做出了这种牺牲。
Well not even in his mind.
好吧，即使在他心里也没有。
You did make this sacrifice for him.
你确实为他做出了这种牺牲。
He got to stay with his parents because of you.
因为你，他必须和父母住在一起。
I know.
我知道。
Ira Glass Years later, you must have talked to your mom about that decision, about how Tuck raised very early the thought that maybe we should split up, because look at all the bad things that can happen.
艾拉·格拉斯 多年后，你一定和你妈妈谈论过这个决定，谈论塔克如何很早就提出也许我们应该分手的想法，因为看看可能发生的所有糟糕的事情。
Did she have regrets about the choices that she made?
她对自己的选择后悔过吗？
Or mixed feelings about the choices she made?
还是对她所做的选择百感交集？
Oh, definitely.
哦，当然。
There's no question about it.
毫无疑问。
She came to my graduation at Boys Home, and I'd been there five years by this time.
她来参加我在男孩之家的毕业典礼，那时我已经在那里五年了。
And it was the first time that she had ever been to Boys Home.
这也是她第一次去男孩之家。
She rode the bus down and I picked her up at the bus station in one of Boys Home's cars.
她坐公交车下来，我在公交车站开着男孩之家的一辆汽车接她。
And we were going by campus and I said, Mom, do you want me to show you around?
我们路过校园时，我说，妈妈，你想让我带你参观一下吗？
And she started crying, and she said, no, I can't do that honey.
她开始哭泣，她说，不，我不能那样做，亲爱的。
And I said, oh, it's OK, I understand.
我说，哦，没关系，我明白。
It was like we were living separate lives, and I was growing up without her.
就好像我们过着各自的生活，而我在没有她的陪伴下长大。
And so she continued to cry, and I parked the car and stopped.
于是她继续哭，我把车停了下来。
And she just looked at me.
她只是看着我。
And by this time we were both crying.
这时我们都哭了。
And she just looked at me and she said, I'm so sorry.
她只是看着我说，我很抱歉。
Yeah.
是的。
Sorry that things had happened the way they had.
很抱歉事情就这样发生了。
Well, I just looked at her and I told her, I said, sorry for what, mama?
好吧，我只是看着她，然后告诉她，我说，对不起什么，妈妈？
For loving me?
为了爱我？
For loving Randy?
为了爱兰迪？
For loving Tuck?
为了爱塔克？
What do you have to be sorry for?
你有什么可遗憾的？
That's when I told her that I had just spent five years with 104 boys who knew for a fact that no one in the world gave a hooting hell about them.
就在那时，我告诉她，我刚刚和 104 个男孩一起度过了五年，他们知道世界上没有人对他们大喊大叫。
The difference between me and them was that in my lifetime I had been loved.
我和他们的不同之处在于，在我的一生中，我曾被爱过。
There was never a moment, never a moment, in my life when I did not know for a fact that I was loved.
在我的生命中，没有一刻，没有一刻，我不知道我是被爱的。
And I said, you don't have anything to be sorry for and you don't have to tell me you're sorry.
我说，你没有什么可抱歉的，你也不必告诉我你很抱歉。
You never have to say that to me.
你永远不必对我这么说。
There's no question that it shortened her life and that it was something she carried with her.
毫无疑问，它缩短了她的寿命，而且它是她随身携带的东西。
Guilt she carried with her every day of her life.
她的每一天都带着愧疚。
And Tuck too.
还有塔克。
She used to ask my ex-wife how I felt about it and did I blame her?
她常常问我的前妻我对此有何感想，我是否责怪她？
Even though we were close, very close, that's just something that can't be removed from a mother.
尽管我们很亲密，非常亲密，但这就是无法从母亲身上消除的东西。
And she was a loving mother so it was devastating for her.
她是一位慈爱的母亲，所以这对她来说是毁灭性的。
Gene Cheek.
吉恩·奇克.
He's written a book about his family's story called The Color Of Love: A Mother's Choice In the Jim Crow South.
他写了一本关于他家庭故事的书，名为《爱的颜色：吉姆·克劳南方母亲的选择》。
The US Supreme Court ruled in 1967 that state laws that prevented interracial marriage were unconstitutional.
美国最高法院于 1967 年裁定，禁止异族通婚的各州法律违宪。
But North Carolina only got around to following the Supreme Court's orders on this matter in 1974.
但北卡罗来纳州直到 1974 年才开始遵守最高法院关于此事的命令。
It was after that finally that Gene's mom was able to marry Tuck.
在那之后，吉恩的妈妈终于能够嫁给塔克了。
They had another son, and lived out their days together.
他们又生了一个儿子，并一起度过了余生。
Tuck died in 1982.
塔克于 1982 年去世。
Gene's mom died in 1995.
吉恩的母亲于 1995 年去世。
Coming up, grandmas rush in where wise men never go.
来了，奶奶们冲进了智者从来不去的地方。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Parental Guidance Suggested, stories of kids who need parents to step in and fix things, and what those kids end up doing when the parents fail to act.
今天的节目《家长指导建议》讲述了需要父母介入并解决问题的孩子的故事，以及当父母不采取行动时这些孩子最终会做什么。
We've arrived at act two of our show.
我们已经到了演出的第二幕了。
Act two, The Grandma Letters.
第二幕，《奶奶的信》。
In this act, as in our first act, a boy finds himself far from the home he knows and the world he knows.
在这一幕中，就像我们的第一幕一样，一个男孩发现自己远离了他所熟悉的家和他所熟悉的世界。
But in this case, the adults in his life seem to stop guiding him effectively, even once he gets to high school.
但在这种情况下，即使他上了高中，他生活中的成年人似乎也不再有效地指导他。
So instead, he turns to the postal system.
因此，他转而求助于邮政系统。
Will Seymour told this story on stage as part of The Mortified Stage Show, where people read from embarrassing old diaries and letters.
威尔·西摩在《羞愧舞台秀》的舞台上讲述了这个故事，人们在舞台上阅读令人尴尬的旧日记和信件。
In 1981, I was fine.
1981年，我还好。
I had pets, and my parents were married, and my grandparents lived next door.
我有宠物，我的父母结婚了，我的祖父母住在隔壁。
All was well.
一切都很好。
And then my parents divorced.
然后我的父母离婚了。
I had to give up my pets and I had to move.
我不得不放弃我的宠物，我不得不搬家。
We moved far away.
我们搬到了很远的地方。
And so my best friend, of course, was my grandmother, and she lived far, far away.
所以我最好的朋友当然是我的祖母，她住得很远很远。
And back in the '80s, there was long distance phone, very expensive.
早在八十年代，就有长途电话，非常昂贵。
So I had no one.
所以我没有人。
I started a new school, and I had no friends, except my grandmother.
我开始了一所新学校，除了祖母之外我没有朋友。
So I wrote my grandmother letters, a lot of letters.
所以我给祖母写了很多信。
And I'm not going to read all of them.
我不会阅读所有这些内容。
And she wrote me back.
她给我回了信。
She was probably pretty worried about us and I shared nothing but terrible information.
她可能非常担心我们，而我只分享了可怕的信息。
[LAUGHTER] And then just so you know, she was kind of dying of emphysema, so she had really terrible information too.
[笑声] 然后你知道，她快要死于肺气肿了，所以她也得到了非常可怕的信息。
She actually wrote me back and treated me like an adult and we actually became really good friends.
她实际上给我回了信，并像对待成年人一样对待我，我们实际上成为了很好的朋友。
So here's a couple of our little exchanges.
这是我们的一些小交流。
This is like 1981, freshman in high school.
这就像1981年，高中一年级。
Dear Grandma, I hate it here.
亲爱的奶奶，我讨厌这里。
I'm faking sick today and I'm staying home, just like yesterday.
我今天假装生病，呆在家里，就像昨天一样。
[LAUGHTER] I'm so afraid of school.
[笑声]我很害怕上学。
Hopefully I can change my schedule out of PE and maybe like a library aide or something.
希望我能改变我的日程安排，不再是体育课，也许可以当图书馆助理什么的。
I lost more weight.
我减掉了更多的体重。
I just don't get hungry.
我就是不饿。
I get worried when I lose my hunger.
当我失去饥饿感时，我会感到担心。
And when I worry, I don't get hungry.
当我担心时，我不会感到饥饿。
[LAUGHTER] Grandma, don't feel bad if you're too sick to write back.
[笑声] 奶奶，如果您病得太厉害而无法回信，请不要感到难过。
Feel terrible.
感觉很糟糕。
Just kidding.
只是在开玩笑。
Well, it was wonderful talking to you.
嗯，很高兴与你交谈。
[LAUGHTER] I love you, and I miss you, Bill Seymour, your grandson.
[笑声] 我爱你，我想念你，比尔·西摩，你的孙子。
[LAUGHTER]
[笑声]
Bill dear, I guess our wonderful chats on the phone are a thing of the past, since neither of us can afford them.
亲爱的比尔，我想我们在电话中的精彩聊天已经成为过去，因为我们都负担不起。
Well, we can still write.
嗯，我们还是可以写的。
We miss all of you something fierce.
我们非常想念你们所有人。
I'm sorry my writing is terrible, I've become so messy.
对不起，我的写作很糟糕，我变得如此混乱。
But it's not me.
但这不是我。
I'm back on triple strength antibiotics.
我又开始服用三倍强度的抗生素了。
My medication speeds up my metabolism and causes these trembly hands.
我的药物加速了我的新陈代谢，导致双手颤抖。
[LAUGHTER] Well, enough of this [BLEEP], here's a joke.
[笑声] 好吧，够了[哔]，这是一个笑话。
Do you know what they call 10 rabbits walking backwards?
你知道10只兔子倒着走是什么意思吗？
A receding hare line.
一条后退的野兔线。
Ask your mother to explain it.
请你妈妈解释一下。
Well honey, I guess I'll close for this one.
好吧，亲爱的，我想我会结束这个。
Keep the letters coming.
继续写信。
They really help, Bill.
他们真的很有帮助，比尔。
Love, Grandma.
爱，奶奶。
Hello, Grandma.
你好，奶奶。
School's not great.
学校不太好。
It's just OK.
没关系。
I'm kind of worried about algebra and French.
我有点担心代数和法语。
Actually, my grades are OK, considering I don't go to school for very much.
事实上，考虑到我上学的时间不多，我的成绩还不错。
[LAUGHTER] I am writing you right now from class.
[笑声] 我现在正在课堂上给你写信。
Love, Bill Seymour, your grandson.
爱你，比尔·西摩，你的孙子。
PS, I put my last name, just in case you forgot.
PS，我写了我的姓氏，以防万一你忘记了。
[LAUGHTER] What the hell?
[笑声] 到底是什么？
Hi, Grandma.
嗨，奶奶。
It's special Thursday.
今天是个特别的星期四。
Want to know why?
想知道为什么吗？
Today I went to school and I found out I'm behind in my French class.
今天我去学校，发现我的法语课落后了。
Just kidding, it's no big.
开个玩笑，没什么大不了的。
But seriously, I'm failing my French class.
但说实话，我的法语课没及格。
[LAUGHTER] How are you?
[笑声] 你好吗？
I'm OK, not great.
我还好，不是很好。
I didn't take the bus today.
我今天没有坐公共汽车。
I cut my last class and I walked home instead.
我逃掉最后一堂课，步行回家。
They were throwing pee balloons, because the water was shut off at school.
他们正在扔小便气球，因为学校停水了。
It was a long walk but at least I don't have pee on me.
虽然走了很长一段路，但至少我没有尿在身上。
[LAUGHTER] Love Bill, your bored grandson.
[笑声]爱比尔，你无聊的孙子。
[LAUGHTER]
[笑声]
Bill dear, I'm getting a mask.
亲爱的比尔，我要买口罩了。
It sterilizes the air that I breathe in, but I hope they come in colors.
它对我呼吸的空气进行消毒，但我希望它们是有颜色的。
I'd like to get one that matches my eyes, but gramps says they don't come in bloodshot, [BLEEP] brindle brown.
我想要一只与我的眼睛相配的，但爷爷说它们不是血丝的，[哔]斑纹棕色的。
[LAUGHTER] Bill, [LAUGHTER] you said you were bored.
[笑声]比尔，[笑声]你说你很无聊。
I'll show you bored.
我会告诉你无聊。
Things are so bad here I squeezed the Charmin twice this morning, just for the hell of it.
这里的情况太糟糕了，今天早上我挤了两次 Charmin，只是为了好玩。
[LAUGHTER] I know I shouldn't say hell, but who cares?
[笑声]我知道我不应该说地狱，但谁在乎呢？
I'm pretty sure God understands.
我很确定上帝能理解。
Write soon, and keep smiling.
快点写，保持微笑。
All our love, Grandma and Grandpa.
我们所有的爱，奶奶和爷爷。
Hello, Grandma.
你好，奶奶。
How are you?
你好吗？
Hello Gram.
你好，格拉姆。
Yesterday and today were snow days, no school.
昨天和今天都是下雪天，没有学校。
I'm fine with that.
我对此很满意。
Too many people said they were going to beat me up this week.
太多人说他们这周要殴打我。
I miss you both.
我想念你们俩。
Update: I'm now going to give you my opinion of mom's current boyfriend, soon to be husband, Phil.
更新：我现在要告诉你我对妈妈现在的男朋友，即将成为丈夫的菲尔的看法。
Well, he's super.
嗯，他太棒了。
Super terrible, super spectacularly fake, and full of super creepy personality.
超级可怕，超级假，而且充满超级令人毛骨悚然的个性。
[LAUGHTER] Now for a few jokes.
[笑声] 现在讲几个笑话。
Have you heard the joke about the two girls playing jump rope?
你听过两个女孩玩跳绳的笑话吗？
Oh, just skip it.
哦，就跳过吧。
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
哈哈哈哈。
Love, Bill.
爱，比尔。
Dear Bill, so nice to get your long letter, honey.
亲爱的比尔，很高兴收到你的长信，亲爱的。
Still flat on my back, so writing is really difficult.
我还是平躺着，所以写字真的很困难。
[LAUGHTER] I'm going to try to use my walker today.
[笑声] 今天我要尝试使用我的助行器。
Perhaps I'll be strong enough.
也许我会足够坚强。
How is school going?
学校进展如何？
I imagine it's not the happy place it should be, but honey, hang tough.
我想这不是一个快乐的地方，但亲爱的，坚持住。
Keep at it.
坚持下去。
Time will pass quickly.
时间会过得很快。
And as for your impression of Phil, your mom has never really mentioned him in detail, or for that matter, de-head or de-mind either.
至于你对菲尔的印象，你妈妈从来没有真正详细地提到过他，或者说，去头脑或去思想。
[LAUGHTER] Your jokes are funny.
[笑声]你的笑话很有趣。
Have you heard of these?
你听说过这些吗？
What would you give a pig with a sore throat?
你会给喉咙痛的猪吃什么？
Oinkment.
油膏。
What lies on the ocean floor and twitches?
海底有什么东西在抽搐？
A nervous wreck.
精神崩溃。
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
哈哈哈哈。
Well love, coughing, no time for me.
好吧，亲爱的，咳嗽，没时间陪我。
I've got to get on my breathing machine.
我必须使用呼吸机。
I never coughed so good when I was smoking.
我抽烟的时候从来没有咳嗽得这么厉害过。
We love you, Grandma.
我们爱你，奶奶。
Dear Grandma, this fun kit has been made especially by me to get you well.
亲爱的奶奶，这个有趣的工具包是我专门为了让您康复而制作的。
And it's basically, I made about seven of them.
基本上，我做了大约七个。
And they're about 14 pages long, each of them.
每本大约有 14 页长。
And this particular one had a quiz in it.
这个特别的里面有一个测验。
Hey you, do you think you're smart?
嘿嘿，你觉得你聪明吗？
You think you've got the know how in the noggin?
你认为你已经掌握了诀窍吗？
OK, just to be perfectly sure, take today's quiz to find out how smart you really are.
好的，为了确保万无一失，请参加今天的测验，看看您到底有多聪明。
Number one, Babe Ruth was famous for hitting A, the bottle; B, his mother in law; or C, small children with a baseball bat?
第一，贝比·鲁斯因击中 A（瓶子）而闻名； B、他的岳母；或者C，拿着棒球棒的小孩子？
[LAUGHTER] Number two, Typhoid Mary was infamous for spreading A, rumors; B, dirty mouse breath; or C, a feverishly hot stew?
[笑声]第二，伤寒玛丽因散布谣言而臭名昭著； B、肮脏的老鼠呼吸；或者C，热腾腾的炖菜？
Number three, Beethoven played A, the field; B, shuffleboard; or C, because he was an artist, damn it.
第三，贝多芬演奏A，场； B、沙狐球；或者C，因为他是个艺术家，该死的。
He was an artist.
他是一位艺术家。
And then the last letter.
然后是最后一封信。
Bill dear, it always gives me such a warm feeling to write those words.
亲爱的比尔，写这些话总是给我一种温暖的感觉。
We've always had such a special relationship, haven't we?
我们一直有着如此特殊的关系，不是吗？
You're not only a loving grandson, you've been a friend, and that's a real treasure.
你不仅是一个慈爱的孙子，还是一个朋友，这是真正的财富。
I've needed to tell you of my love for you, so you will be able to wear it like a warm jacket for as long as you want, something that no one or nothing can take away from you.
我需要告诉你我对你的爱，这样你就可以像一件温暖的夹克一样穿着它，想穿多久就穿多久，这是任何人或任何东西都无法从你身上夺走的东西。
You've always made me happy.
你一直让我很开心。
I love you, Grandma.
我爱你，奶奶。
Over.
超过。
PS, when I hear this song, I think of you.
PS，一听到这首歌，我就想起你了。
It's the theme of the TV show Love , Sydney with Tony Randall.
这是托尼·兰德尔主演的电视节目《悉尼之爱》的主题。
[LAUGHTER] Please believe me, lately my whole world is changing.
[笑声]请相信我，最近我的整个世界都在改变。
Suddenly you're here, and life is better than before.
突然你就在这里，生活比以前更好了。
We're like friends forever.
我们就像永远的朋友一样。
And when the rest are gone, it's you who will be there for me, my friend.
当其他人都走了时，我的朋友，你会在我身边。
Thanks.
谢谢。
[APPLAUSE]
[掌声]
Will Seymour lives in Los Angeles, where he is still avoiding French class.
威尔·西摩住在洛杉矶，但他仍然避开法语课。
He read at The Mortified Stage Show.
他在《羞愧的舞台秀》上读书。
You can find them on the web at getmortified.com.
您可以在 getmortified.com 网站上找到它们。
[MUSIC - "THEME FROM THE TELEVISION CHOW LOVE, SYDNEY"]
[音乐 - “电视节目《爱，悉尼》主题曲”]
Act three, My Angel's in the Centerfold.
第三幕，我的天使在插页。
There's a story that my mom used to tell about when my sisters and I were little.
当我和我的姐妹们还小的时候，我妈妈曾经给我讲过一个故事。
The Gosgoth's cat next door to us had kittens.
我们隔壁的哥斯哥特猫养了小猫。
My sister Randi was six or seven at the time, and she asked my mom, OK, so how exactly did that happen?
我姐姐兰迪当时六七岁，她问我妈妈，好吧，那到底是怎么发生的呢？
Like what happened to make the cat pregnant?
比如发生了什么让猫怀孕了？
And my mom, she just thought like, oh, this is really great.
而我妈妈，她只是想，哦，这真是太棒了。
She's asking me these questions.
她在问我这些问题。
We can get this out of the way.
我们可以解决这个问题。
She's so young.
她这么年轻。
And so she tells Randi the whole story and reproduction, and the mommy and the daddy cat, the whole thing.
所以她告诉兰迪整个故事和复制，以及猫妈妈和猫爸爸，整个事情。
She gets to the end of this whole story.
她完成了整个故事。
My mom is feeling great.
我妈妈感觉很棒。
And she turns to Randi and she says, do you have any questions, Randi?
她转向兰迪说，你有什么问题吗，兰迪？
And Randi thinks for a second and she says, can birds really fly?
兰迪想了想，她说，鸟真的能飞吗？
I think the moral of the story is you can throw certain information at kids, but they're only going to absorb what they are able to absorb, and they're going to ignore everything else.
我认为这个故事的寓意是你可以向孩子们扔某些信息，但他们只会吸收他们能够吸收的信息，而他们会忽略其他一切。
And I bring this up here, because our next story is very much an example of that phenomenon.
我在这里提出这一点，是因为我们的下一个故事就是这种现象的一个例子。
A warning to listeners, there's nothing explicit or graphic in this story, but it does acknowledge the existence of sex.
警告听众，这个故事没有任何明确或生动的内容，但它确实承认性的存在。
Thea Chaloner tells the tale.
西娅·查洛纳讲述了这个故事。
My friend Emily had a rough time growing up with her dad.
我的朋友艾米丽和她父亲一起度过了一段艰难的成长时期。
Part of the problem was his job.
部分问题在于他的工作。
He taught human sexuality at Boston University, which is pretty impressive.
他在波士顿大学教授人类性学，这令人印象深刻。
But to a kid, it's your worst nightmare.
但对于一个孩子来说，这是最可怕的噩梦。
Your dad is a sex professor.
你爸爸是一位性学教授。
By the time she was 10, he was a local celebrity, famous for his knowledge about sex.
当她10岁的时候，他已经成为当地的名人，以他对性的了解而闻名。
He had a radio show on WHDH in Boston called Talking Sex with Doctor Joseph Helfgot .
他在波士顿的 WHDH 上主持了一档名为《与约瑟夫·赫尔夫戈特医生谈论性》的广播节目。
It was a call-in show.
这是一档来电节目。
And it was a maverick show of its time because he would talk frankly about sex.
这是当时一个特立独行的节目，因为他会坦率地谈论性。
Most of the people who called in were women talking about how-- I mean, I can clearly remember, I can hear a woman's voice calling in and asking if he could explain to her how she could achieve multiple orgasm.
大多数打电话来的人都是女性，他们在谈论如何——我的意思是，我清楚地记得，我可以听到一个女人的声音打来电话，询问他是否可以向她解释如何实现多重高潮。
So at Rebecca Ritter's house, fifth grade, in my Care Bear nightgown, in my Strawberry Shortcake sleeping bag, I swear to God, as like girly as it gets.
所以，在丽贝卡·里特家，五年级，穿着我的爱心小熊睡衣，睡在我的草莓甜心睡袋里，我向上帝发誓，就像少女一样。
And then we are in our sleeping bags about to go to sleep, and Rebecca sits up and says, let's listen to Em's dad's show.
然后我们在睡袋里准备睡觉，丽贝卡坐起来说，让我们听听艾姆爸爸的节目吧。
So they turn the radio on and we'd be like in the dark, listening to my father on the radio going, [EXHALES]-- because he also smoked-- Doris, I'm really glad you called in.
于是他们打开收音机，我们就像在黑暗中一样，听着收音机里我父亲的声音，[呼气]——因为他也抽烟——多丽丝，我真的很高兴你打来电话。
Women so often think that it's something that's going on with them, that's the reason why they can't achieve multiple orgasm.
女性常常认为这是她们身上发生的事情，这就是她们无法达到多重高潮的原因。
And he was very flirtatious with the people on the air, too.
他还对广播中的人非常调情。
And I knew that, I could sense the tenor of the flirtation, even when I was a little kid.
我知道，即使我还是个小孩子，我也能感觉到调情的基调。
And I was trying to pass it off and be giggly and like, oh, it's so funny, like all my friends were.
我试图掩饰这一点，咯咯地笑，就像，哦，这太有趣了，就像我所有的朋友一样。
But I was putting my nails into my thigh to get myself not to cry.
但我用指甲钉住大腿，让自己不哭。
And I also just felt, why couldn't my dad be normal?
我也觉得，为什么我爸爸就不能正常一点呢？
Emily's parents divorced when she was five, and she and her brother spent every other weekend at her dad's house.
艾米丽的父母在她五岁时离婚，她和她的兄弟每隔一个周末都会在她父亲家里度过。
He enforced a lot of family time, which usually meant watching TV.
他强制要求有很多家庭时间，这通常意味着看电视。
Then he'd fall asleep and the kids were left to amuse themselves.
然后他就睡着了，孩子们就留下来玩耍。
Her brother occupied himself with Archie comics and GI Joes But Emily was on her own.
她的哥哥忙于阿奇漫画和特种部队，但艾米丽却独自一人。
It was weird being there, and boring, until she discovered the bookshelves.
在那里很奇怪，也很无聊，直到她发现了书架。
It was all books on the top three bookshelves, and then the bottom bookshelf was all Playboys .
最上面的三个书架上全是书，然后最下面的书架上全是花花公子。
I mean, it was like a 64 Crayola box of Playboys .
我的意思是，它就像一盒 64 盒的《花花公子》绘儿乐 (Crayola)。
And my first mission, because I was always a very kind of organizationally oriented kid, was to chronologically organize them.
我的第一个任务是按时间顺序组织它们，因为我一直是一个非常注重组织的孩子。
So I had them going October '81, or whatever it was, all the way through to whatever the current one was.
所以我让他们从 81 年 10 月开始，或者不管是什么，一直到当前的那个。
Somehow-- and I wish I could tell you how I figured this out-- I decided that I would use the magazines, and kind of use the centerfolds and the questionnaires that they would answer, as a portfolio for women who I would use in my dating service.
不知何故——我希望我能告诉你我是如何想到这一点的——我决定使用这些杂志，并使用插页和他们会回答的调查问卷，作为我在约会服务中使用的女性的作品集。
The tools for her imaginary dating service were: a Smith Corona typewriter, a phone unplugged from the wall, a box of index cards, a Yellow Pages, and of course, a huge collection of Playboys .
她想象中的约会服务的工具是：一台史密斯科罗娜打字机、一部从墙上拔下插头的电话、一盒索引卡、一本黄页，当然还有大量的《花花公子》。
Take me through a couple of sample scenarios of what this would be.
请带我了解几个示例场景。
Can you do that?
你能做到吗？
I can, but I should, as the disclaimer, first say that I would say my lines out loud, but I wouldn't say the lines of the quote unquote, "person on the other line of the phone." [PHONE RING] Miss Lana's Dating Service, how can I help you?
我可以，但我应该，作为免责声明，首先说我会大声说出我的台词，但我不会说引用的台词不加引号，“电话另一条线上的人”。 [电话铃声] 拉娜小姐的交友服务，有什么可以帮您的吗？
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
So you're looking for someone who's like 5'10", and weighs 125 pounds?
那么您正在寻找身高 5 英尺 10 英寸、体重 125 磅的人？
Can you hold on for just a minute, sir?
先生，您能稍等一下吗？
And then I would press-- actually, I don't believe there was a hold button, but in my imagination there was, and I would put the phone down.
然后我会按下——实际上，我不相信有一个保持按钮，但在我的想象中是有的，然后我就会放下电话。
And I would go to my resource library of Playboy magazines, and I would go until I found someone that was around the range that I had just made up for myself.
我会去我的《花花公子》杂志资源库，直到找到一个与我刚刚为自己编造的范围相近的人。
So really it's very twisted.
所以真的很扭曲。
And then I would open up to the centerfolds, and not really extend the whole picture of the centerfold, but really just looking at the questionnaire.
然后我会打开插页，并没有真正扩展插页的整个图片，而只是查看调查问卷。
And once I had that in front of me, I'd get back on the phone.
一旦我把这个放在我面前，我就会重新打电话。
Hi, Mr. Watkins?
嗨，沃特金斯先生？
Yes, I think I have the perfect girl for you.
是的，我想我有一个最适合你的女孩。
Her name is Amber Rose.
她的名字叫琥珀玫瑰。
She is 5'9", 125 pounds, and she-- what?
她身高 5 英尺 9 英寸，体重 125 磅，而她——什么？
Yes, she does.
是的，她确实如此。
She likes oysters, and she likes long walks on the beach at night.
她喜欢牡蛎，喜欢晚上在海滩上散步。
And oh, she loves shooting stars.
哦，她喜欢流星。
Does that sound good?
听起来不错吗？
OK, Mr. Watkins, let me just get your information.
好的，沃特金斯先生，让我了解一下您的信息。
And then I would put an index card in the typewriter, and roll it in.
然后我会把一张索引卡放入打字机中，然后将其卷进去。
It was one of those old manual kind.
这是一种老式的手册。
And I would say, so it's Ron Watkins.
我想说，那就是罗恩·沃特金斯。
And it would take me hunting and pecking on the typewriter, like Ron Watkins, spell it out, return, next line.
这需要我在打字机上寻找和敲击，就像罗恩·沃特金斯一样，拼出它，返回，下一行。
And then I would type in the name of the centerfold.
然后我会输入插页的名称。
I've typed in the magazine she was from, like the month and the year so I'd have it for reference later.
我已经输入了她所在的杂志，例如月份和年份，以便稍后参考。
And then I would chat sometimes with him on the phone, like, so Mr. Watkins, how long have you been living in Washington?
然后我有时会在电话里和他聊天，比如沃特金斯先生，你在华盛顿住了多久了？
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Oh, you got a recommendation from-- oh, yeah, Bill comes to me all the time.
哦，你得到了来自——哦，是的，比尔总是来找我的推荐。
And I was a facilitator of the woman and the man getting together.
我是女人和男人聚在一起的促进者。
I wasn't playing out any kind of fantasy for myself.
我并没有为自己表演任何幻想。
I was a businesswoman.
我是一名女商人。
Except for the fact that the women are totally naked, in very sexual positions all throughout these magazines.
除了这些杂志中的女性完全赤身裸体，姿势非常性感之外。
So did that factor into your brain?
那么这个因素是否进入了你的大脑呢？
No, that's why I say that I really-- I mean, I would look at the actual pictures, really just so I could get a sense, because sometimes they were like, cowgirl.
不，这就是为什么我说我真的——我的意思是，我会看实际的照片，真的只是为了能有一个感觉，因为有时它们就像，女牛仔。
Like she would have no clothes on except for she'd have a bullwhip in her hand, and little spurs on her ankles, and she'd be lying on a bed of hay or something.
就像她没穿衣服一样，除了手里拿着一根牛鞭，脚踝上有小马刺，而且她躺在干草铺成的床上或其他东西上。
So I would factor that into my conversation with the guy.
所以我会把这一点纳入我和那个人的谈话中。
I'd be like, and she loves to rodeo.
我想，她喜欢牛仔竞技表演。
So then I took it to this other level.
所以我把它提升到了另一个层次。
This is where the Yellow Pages comes in.
这就是黄页的用武之地。
Where I would say, so Ron, what kind of cuisine do you like?
我会说，那么罗恩，你喜欢什么样的菜？
And I would find a place, and then I would type up on the index card the name of the restaurant, the time the reservation was going to be, and I filed the card away, I'm sure alphabetically, by the guy's last name in the little plastic case.
我会找到一个地方，然后我会在索引卡上输入餐厅的名称、预订时间，然后我将卡片归档，我确信按字母顺序，按照小塑料盒中那个人的姓氏。
And then it was time for the next call.
然后就到了下一次通话的时间了。
I could not have been more content.
我感到非常满足。
I always wanted to be a travel agent as a kid, you know the clicking, clicking of the nails on the keyboard, and the simultaneously talking to-- and this was before I think they even had headset phones.
我小时候一直想成为一名旅行社，你知道指甲在键盘上敲击的声音，以及同时与人交谈——我认为他们甚至还没有耳机电话。
So the simultaneous talking to the person, I think I have a good deal for you, and then like referencing things in books, just using all those tools.
因此，与该人同时交谈，我想我对你有很多好处，然后就像参考书中的内容一样，只需使用所有这些工具即可。
And the resources available to me were Playboy magazines.
我可以利用的资源是《花花公子》杂志。
It was also just a coping mechanism for being in an environment that I hated.
这也只是我讨厌的环境中的一种应对机制。
I didn't like being there for so many reasons, and it was an escape.
由于很多原因，我不喜欢呆在那里，但这是一种逃避。
For Emily, the long term effects of looking at so many Playboys at such a young age weren't as damaging as you'd expect.
对于艾米丽来说，在这么年轻的时候看这么多《花花公子》的长期影响并没有你想象的那么有害。
When she was 10, she believed that she could choose the centerfold body she liked the best, and then she'd grow into it later on, like that was an option.
当她10岁时，她相信她可以选择她最喜欢的插页身体，然后她会在以后长大，就像这是一个选择。
What was damaging was that her dad just didn't seem to get that she was still a kid and that certain things were better left unsaid.
具有破坏性的是，她的父亲似乎不明白她还是个孩子，有些事情最好不要说出来。
Or in the case of the Playboys , certain things are better left stashed away on that top shelf of the closet.
或者就《花花公子》而言，某些东西最好还是藏在衣柜的最上面的架子上。
A 10 year old, 11 year old, 12 year old girl is not impressed by her father's call in radio sex show.
一个 10 岁、11 岁、12 岁的女孩对她父亲在电台性爱节目中的呼唤没有留下深刻的印象。
She's not impressed by the fact that he can talk so openly about sex, because as far as she's concerned, that conversation doesn't exist between the father and the daughter.
她对他能如此公开地谈论性这一事实并不感兴趣，因为就她而言，父亲和女儿之间不存在这种对话。
I think what you have to understand is that to cope as a kid, you read a situation when you walk into it, and you conform to the situation.
我认为你必须明白的是，作为一个孩子，你要应对这种情况，当你走进一种情况时，你会读到它，然后你就会顺应这种情况。
And being able to enter into this-- especially from the world of my mother's house, that was like everything was in its right place, and we got tucked in.
能够进入这个世界——尤其是从我母亲房子的世界里，就好像一切都在它正确的位置上，我们就被困住了。
And I got my back rubbed in a very certain way.
我的背部以一种非常特定的方式被按摩。
And the door left open just three inches, and then good night, sweet dreams, I love you, with the glass of water.
门只开着三英寸，然后送上一杯水，晚安，好梦，我爱你。
And it's like, we're going to dad's, a different routine.
就像我们要去爸爸那里，不同的例行公事。
I can fight it and be miserable or I can kind of make a game up with the Playboys until we get back to my mom's house.
我可以抗争并感到痛苦，或者我可以和花花公子们编造一个游戏，直到我们回到我妈妈的家。
Well, it's like, I can fight it, or I can alphabetize.
嗯，就像，我可以对抗它，或者我可以按字母顺序排列。
Yes, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Thea Chaloner Emily lost her virginity when she was 17.
西娅·查洛纳·艾米丽 (Thea Chaloner Emily) 17 岁时失去了童贞。
She told both parents.
她告诉双方父母。
Her mom's first response was sweet: do you love him?
她妈妈的第一反应很甜蜜：你爱他吗？
Were you safe?
你安全吗？
Her dad's?
她爸爸的？
Was it good?
好吗？
Did you orgasm?
你高潮了吗？
And yes, at the time, her dad's question completely freaked her out.
是的，当时她父亲的问题完全吓坏了她。
But now she thinks his intentions were the same as her mom's.
但现在她认为他的意图和她妈妈的意图是一样的。
His heart was in the right place.
他的心在正确的地方。
He just didn't understand how to talk to his daughter.
他只是不知道如何跟女儿说话。
It's the oldest dad problem in the world.
这是世界上最古老的父亲问题。
Thea Chaloner.
西娅·查洛纳。
She was, until last week, our intern here at This American Life .
直到上周，她还是我们在《美国生活》的实习生。
She's moving back to Los Angeles to become a producer at public radio station KCRW.
她将搬回洛杉矶，成为公共广播电台 KCRW 的制作人。
[MUSIC - "TRUMP STYLE" BY KIMYA DAWSON]
[音乐 - Kimya DAWSON 的“特朗普风格”]
Our program was produced today by Jane Feltes and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Jane Feltes 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Diane Cook、Sarah Koenig、Lisa Pollak 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Seth Lind and Sativa January.
Seth Lind 和 Sativa January 提供制作帮助。
Special thanks today to Jordana Gustufsson.
今天特别感谢乔丹娜·古斯塔夫森。
You know you can download today's program in our archives at audible.com/thisamericanlife.
您知道，您可以在我们的档案库中下载今天的节目：audible.com/thisamericanlife。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who said to me just the other day--.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 负责监督，他前几天对我说——。
When I hear this song, I think of you.
当我听到这首歌时，我就想到你。
It's the theme of the TV show Love, Sydney with Tony Randall.
这是托尼·兰德尔主演的电视节目《爱，悉尼》的主题。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。