301: Settling the Score - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #301 | September 19, 2008 301: Settling the Score Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 301 集 | 2008 年 9 月 19 日 301：算计 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass This is one of those stories where something big and heartwarming and idealistic that somebody wants is just going to get torn apart.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 这是一个故事，其中某人想要的一些宏大、温暖和理想主义的东西将被撕裂。
Just driven straight into the ground.
直接被推入地下。
And it begins, as these kind of stories often do, with an idea that was planted in somebody's head when they were a child.
正如此类故事经常发生的那样，故事的开头是某人小时候就植入脑海中的一个想法。
Back when she was a little girl, Erin Einhorn was told this family legend, and, as some legends go, it was kind of a spectacular one.
当艾琳·艾因霍恩（Erin Einhorn）还是个小女孩的时候，她就被告知了这个家族传说，正如一些传说所说，这是一个壮观的传说。
When Erin was a girl, she used to beg her mom to talk about it.
当艾琳还是个女孩的时候，她常常恳求她妈妈谈论这件事。
I love the story.
我喜欢这个故事。
Because I, of course, was born in suburban Detroit, where my life was really boring.
当然，因为我出生在底特律郊区，那里的生活真的很无聊。
And she had this really dramatic story, of this incredible survival.
她有一个非常戏剧性的故事，关于这种令人难以置信的生存。
The story went like this.
故事是这样的。
Erin's grandfather and grandmother were on their way to work one morning in Poland, and were rounded up by the Nazis, and they're put on the train to Auschwitz.
一天早上，艾琳的祖父和祖母在波兰上班的路上被纳粹围捕，然后他们被带上了开往奥斯维辛集中营的火车。
So they are on this train.
所以他们在这列火车上。
So my grandfather sees a way to escape from this train, like an open window.
所以我的祖父找到了逃离这列火车的方法，比如打开窗户。
And he turns to his wife, Sura Leah Rosenblum, and he pleads with her to jump with him from the train.
他转向妻子苏拉·利亚·罗森布鲁姆，恳求她和他一起跳下火车。
My grandmother's about 21, 22 years old and she's just terrified.
我祖母大约 21、22 岁，她只是感到害怕。
And she refuses to go.
但她拒绝去。
To jump from the moving train.
从行驶的火车上跳下来。
The train is moving?
火车在行驶吗？
It's at moving train.
是在行驶的火车上。
And the story is that it's a window.
故事是它是一扇窗户。
I'm not sure what that means, if there was a window, why other people didn't jump.
我不知道这意味着什么，如果有窗户，为什么其他人不跳下去。
If you apply some questions to the story, it doesn't necessarily hold up.
如果你对这个故事提出一些问题，它不一定成立。
But I never did apply questions to the story particularly.
但我从来没有对这个故事特别提出问题。
Because it was this incredible story.
因为这是一个令人难以置信的故事。
So there's a train, and there's a window.
所以有火车，就有窗户。
And my grandfather wants to jump.
我的祖父想跳。
And he wants his wife to come with him, and she refuses.
他想让他的妻子和他一起去，但她拒绝了。
And he goes by himself.
他自己去。
And he leaps from the train, as the story goes, in a hail of bullets from the Nazi guards.
正如故事所说，他在纳粹警卫的枪林弹雨中从火车上跳了下来。
And he is wounded in the leg.
他的腿受伤了。
He's bleeding from the leg.
他的腿在流血。
So the history goes like this.
所以历史是这样的。
He takes the yellow armband with the Star of David that the Nazis made all the Jews wear.
他拿起了纳粹强迫所有犹太人佩戴的带有大卫之星的黄色臂章。
This is pretty much a symbol of everything that had gone wrong for his people.
这几乎是他的人民所遭遇的一切问题的象征。
And he removes it from his arm, and he wraps it around his leg, as a bandage.
他把它从手臂上取下来，像绷带一样缠在腿上。
And then he runs back to his town, Bedzin, to find his daughter.
然后他跑回他的小镇贝德津寻找他的女儿。
Who is Erin's mother, who was then just a baby.
艾琳的母亲是谁，当时她还是个婴儿。
Who they had left with an elderly relative before they went off to work in the morning.
早上上班前，他们把这个人留给了一位年长的亲戚。
Then he goes with her to the home of a woman he knew.
然后他和她一起去了一个他认识的女人的家。
And the woman's name is Honorata Skowronski.
这个女人的名字叫霍诺拉塔·斯科龙斯基。
And he begs her to take care of his child, and he promises her all kinds of things, and riches and he'll take care of her for the rest of his life.
他恳求她照顾他的孩子，他向她许诺一切，还有财富，他会照顾她一生。
And he asks her if she'll hide my mother among her other children.
他问她是否会把我母亲藏在她的其他孩子中间。
She had a number of children.
她有很多孩子。
And she agreed.
她同意了。
And then he's ultimately captured again.
然后他最终再次被捕。
And ends up back at Auschwitz and then Buchenwald.
最后又回到奥斯威辛集中营，然后是布痕瓦尔德集中营。
And he comes back after the war, and somehow is able to find my mother again.
战争结束后他回来了，不知怎的又找到了我的母亲。
I mean, his wife is gone.
我的意思是，他的妻子已经不在了。
His parents are gone.
他的父母都不在了。
His brothers are gone.
他的兄弟们都走了。
His sister's gone.
他姐姐不见了。
Their spouses, their children, his cousins, his friends, everybody.
他们的配偶，他们的孩子，他的表兄弟姐妹，他的朋友，每个人。
But the one person, the one thing, really, he still has from that life is this child, my mother.
但他一生中仍然拥有的一个人，一件事，就是这个孩子，我的母亲。
Because of this woman, this hero, who risked her life.
因为这个女人，这个英雄，冒着生命危险。
Poland actually had the death penalty for saving a Jew.
波兰实际上因拯救犹太人而被判处死刑。
Now one confusing thing about this incredible story, as far as Erin was concerned, was the fact that nobody in her family liked to talk about it.
就艾琳而言，关于这个令人难以置信的故事的一个令人困惑的事情是，她家里没有人喜欢谈论它。
Nobody saw this woman as a hero.
没有人将这个女人视为英雄。
I mean, my mother was really flip about the whole thing.
我的意思是，我妈妈对整件事真的很生气。
She would say, "Well, she only did it for the money," or something.
她会说，“好吧，她这么做只是为了钱”之类的。
Which I didn't particularly believe.
我并不是特别相信。
The truth is, we didn't really discuss any of this.
事实是，我们并没有真正讨论过这些。
My mother just hated to talk about it.
我妈妈只是不愿意谈论这件事。
The whole story really bored her.
整个故事实在令她厌烦。
I think she just didn't-- she came to the United States at the age of nine, as this kind of big-nosed, red-haired Jewish girl who spoke Swedish.
我想她只是没有——她九岁就来到美国，就像这种大鼻子、红头发、说瑞典语的犹太女孩一样。
Because they had actually lived in Sweden after the war for four years.
因为战后他们实际上已经在瑞典生活了四年。
So she was this really, really odd kid, and she really didn't fit in.
所以她是一个非常非常奇怪的孩子，而且她真的不适合。
And I think she just wanted the whole thing behind her.
我认为她只是想把整件事抛在脑后。
Yeah.
是的。
Erin Einhorn But I mean, to me, it was this important-- it was a story that I would tell that I thought kind of made my mother special, you know.
艾琳·艾因霍恩 但我的意思是，对我来说，这非常重要——我会讲这个故事，我认为这让我的母亲变得特别，你知道。
There was this woman, out there, or her family anyway, there was this part, this important part of my mother's story.
那里有这个女人，或者她的家人，有这个部分，我母亲故事的重要部分。
And I actually really wanted to connect my mother with that part of her past.
事实上，我真的很想将我母亲与她的那段过去联系起来。
Even though she wasn't really particularly interested in it.
尽管她对此并不是特别感兴趣。
I wanted to see what would happen.
我想看看会发生什么。
Or just thought, maybe if I could find this family my mother would show an interest, she would be moved by it in some way.
或者只是想，也许如果我能找到我母亲会表现出兴趣的这个家庭，她会以某种方式被它感动。
So Erin moved to Poland for a year to figure this out.
因此，艾琳搬到波兰一年来解决这个问题。
To have an adventure.
来一次冒险。
She's 27.
她27岁了。
And what she finds is so much more complicated than what she expected.
她发现的事情比她想象的要复杂得多。
And so different than what she expected.
而且和她想象的很不一样。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, "Settling the Score." Our program today in two acts.
今天我们的节目是“结算”。我们今天的节目分两幕。
And the two stories in our show today have so much in common, but actually, saying what they have in common right now, actually telling you what are the things they have in common is going to spoil what is going to happen in the stories, as they unfold.
我们今天节目中的两个故事有很多共同点，但实际上，现在说他们有什么共同点，实际上告诉你他们有什么共同点，这会破坏故事展开时将要发生的事情。
So, for now, I'm just going to say that in both stories there are people, there are these this mysterious, unfolding conflicts where it's not even clear for a while, for a long while, what the conflicts are about.
所以，现在，我只想说，在这两个故事中都有人，有这些神秘的、正在展开的冲突，甚至有一段时间、很长一段时间都不清楚这些冲突是关于什么的。
And there are other similarities to them, key similarities, yet to be revealed.
它们还有其他相似之处，关键的相似之处，还有待揭示。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "One Good Deed." So Erin Einhorn, the woman with the amazing family legend that nobody in her family likes to talk about, she heads off to Poland.
第一幕“一件好事”。因此，艾琳·艾因霍恩（Erin Einhorn），这个拥有令人惊叹的家族传奇的女人，她的家族中没有人喜欢谈论，她前往波兰。
And basically what she has in her hand is an address.
基本上她手里有一个地址。
Of this building that her grandfather owned before the war in Bedzin.
战前她祖父在贝德津拥有的这栋建筑。
She knows that after the war, one thing that her grandfather did to thank the woman who saved her mother's life, Honorata Skowronski, is that he told her to move in there, into this building, rent free.
她知道，战争结束后，她的祖父为感谢救了她母亲生命的女人霍诺拉塔·斯科龙斯基（Honorata Skowronski）所做的一件事就是让她搬到那里，搬进这栋大楼，免租。
Erin figured that Honorata was probably dead, it was so long ago.
艾琳估计霍诺拉塔可能已经死了，那是很久以前的事了。
But that somebody there might remember Honorata's family, have some idea of where the people had gone to.
但那里有人可能还记得奥诺拉塔的家人，知道人们去了哪里。
So Erin's living in Poland, she's learning some Polish.
艾琳住在波兰，她正在学习一些波兰语。
And one day she takes some friends with her, partly to help with the translation, to the town of Bedzin, to try to find this address.
有一天，她带着一些朋友来到贝德津镇，试图找到这个地址，部分原因是为了帮助翻译。
And when she gets there, she's completely surprised.
当她到达那里时，她完全惊讶了。
First of all, she had sort of pictured the town like it would be the town in Fiddler on the Roof , with cows and goats and thatched roofs and all.
首先，她对这个小镇的想象有点像《屋顶上的小提琴手》中的小镇，有牛、山羊、茅草屋顶等等。
A village, basically.
基本上是一个村庄。
But, in fact, the building is in a real city.
但事实上，这座建筑位于一座真实的城市中。
On a street with shoe stores and a sidewalk cafe.
位于一条设有鞋店和路边咖啡馆的街道上。
And it turns out to be a three story building, like a townhouse, broken up into five or six apartments.
事实证明，这是一栋三层楼的建筑，就像联排别墅一样，分成五六间公寓。
With iron balconies.
有铁艺阳台。
But it's really rundown.
但确实很破败。
Actually, one of the balconies is kind of twisted and almost falling off.
事实上，其中一个阳台有点扭曲，几乎要掉下来。
We go in and the stairs are cracked, there are marble stairs that are cracked and there's actually graffiti on the wall.
我们进去，楼梯裂了，大理石楼梯裂了，墙上居然还有涂鸦。
It smells bad.
闻起来很臭。
It's a little squalid.
有点肮脏。
Yeah.
是的。
Erin Einhorn So we went up the first set of stairs on the left, and knocked on the first door.
艾琳·艾因霍恩 于是我们走上左边的第一组楼梯，敲了第一扇门。
And we had this name Skowronski.
我们有这个名字 Skowronski。
And so one of my friends asked this woman who answered the door, "Is Skowronski here?" or something.
于是，我的一位朋友问开门的女士：“斯科龙斯基在吗？”或者什么的。
And the woman-- from my perspective, I can't really speak Polish.
而那个女人——从我的角度来看，我真的不会说波兰语。
But I see the woman nod and point toward the sky.
但我看到那个女人点点头并指着天空。
And I'm like, oh, they're dead.
我想，哦，他们死了。
And my friend laughs and he's like, "No, they live upstairs." So all of a sudden now, we're like, oh my god, they're here.
我的朋友笑了，他说：“不，他们住在楼上。”所以现在突然间，我们就像，天哪，他们来了。
And actually, I mean, various things happen, but essentially the next thing I know I'm standing face to face with this old man, with tired blue eyes, who once called my mother his sister.
事实上，我的意思是，发生了各种各样的事情，但基本上我知道的下一件事是我面对面站着这个老人，他有着疲倦的蓝眼睛，他曾经称我母亲为他的妹妹。
And I had this photograph that my mother had given me, right before I went to Poland.
我有这张照片，是我去波兰之前母亲给我的。
It was my mother at about maybe four or five years old.
那是我母亲，大约四五岁。
Just this little kid, and she looked like she had been crying maybe.
只是这个小孩子，她看上去可能刚刚哭过。
Her eyes were kind of puffy.
她的眼睛有点浮肿。
And her father's in this picture with her, looking very serious.
照片中她的父亲和她在一起，看上去很严肃。
And then there's this woman, this stern looking woman.
还有这个女人，这个看上去很严肃的女人。
And my mother never really knew who this woman was, actually.
事实上，我母亲从来不知道这个女人是谁。
She thought it might have been Honorata Skowronski.
她认为这可能是霍诺拉塔·斯科龙斯基。
She wasn't entirely sure.
她不太确定。
But I had this picture.
但我有这张照片。
And I handed it to this guy, and he just starts.
我把它交给这个人，他就开始了。
He stares at the picture.
他盯着照片。
He says, [SPEAKING POLISH].
他说，[说波兰语]。
"That's my mother." And I pointed at the child in the photo and I said, [SPEAKING POLISH].
“那是我妈妈。”我指着照片中的孩子说，[说波兰语]。
"That's my mother."
“那是我妈妈。”
And the guy just started to cry.
那家伙开始哭了。
I mean, tears running down his face and he just took me in his arms and he says, "She was my sister." He invites us in and he just starts telling us this story about-- she used to follow him around.
我的意思是，泪水从他的脸上流下来，他只是把我抱在怀里，他说，“她是我的妹妹。”他邀请我们进去，然后开始给我们讲这个故事——她过去常常跟着他。
He was her favorite.
他是她的最爱。
He used to change her diapers.
他常常给她换尿布。
He used to make her pancakes.
他曾经给她做煎饼。
He used to milk the goat so that she would have fresh milk.
他常常给山羊挤奶，这样她就能喝到新鲜的牛奶。
And when the guards would-- or the SS would march in the street, or the Gestapo-- he would hide her in a dresser drawer.
当警卫——或者党卫军在街上游行，或者盖世太保——他会把她藏在梳妆台抽屉里。
Because she was just this child.
因为她只是这个孩子。
And then one day, she basically vanished.
然后有一天，她基本上消失了。
I mean, her father comes for her at the end of the war.
我的意思是，她的父亲在战争结束时来找她。
And he never, ever sees her again.
他再也见不到她了。
She lived there for three years.
她在那里住了三年。
They were really close.
他们真的很亲密。
And, in a way, this is exactly what you had pictured might happen, right?
而且，在某种程度上，这正是您所想象的可能发生的情况，对吗？
If everything would go wonderfully.
如果一切都会顺利的话。
Yeah, it was like a dream come true.
是的，就像梦想成真一样。
You know, it was one of those moments where everything is just resolved and everything's perfect.
你知道，那是一切都刚刚解决、一切都很完美的时刻之一。
It was more than-- and he's just, "You have to bring your mother to me.
这不仅仅是——他只是说，“你必须把你的母亲带到我身边。
I really, I want to see her before I die.
我真的，我想在死之前见到她。
You'll bring her." His mother, it turns out, had been passed away in 1995.
你会带她来的。”事实证明，他的母亲已于 1995 年去世。
But he says, "Bring your mother.
但他说：“带上你妈妈来。
We'll take her to my mother's grave, and she'll know that her daughter had come back." He used the word daughter.
我们会带她去我母亲的坟墓，她就会知道她的女儿回来了。”他用了女儿这个词。
I mean, it was all kind of a shock.
我的意思是，这有点令人震惊。
We got his phone number, and I said, "Look, you know, can I come back?
我们拿到了他的电话号码，我说：“听着，你知道，我可以回来吗？
And we can sit down and talk." And he said, "Sure, no problem." And we made arrangements to meet again in a couple of weeks.
我们可以坐下来谈谈。”他说：“当然，没问题。”我们安排几周后再次见面。
When she goes back, it's a big deal.
等她回去了，事情就大了。
The man's whole family is there.
那个男人的全家都在那里。
His wife, a bunch of grown kids and grandkids.
他的妻子，一群成年的孩子和孙子。
They serve cake and coffee.
他们供应蛋糕和咖啡。
Erin's roommate Manda comes, to help translate.
艾琳的室友曼达来帮忙翻译。
And so actually, that next meeting was actually really just wonderful.
事实上，下一次会议真的非常精彩。
Just to get all these stories and just hear what they'd heard.
只是为了了解所有这些故事并听听他们所听到的。
Their half of this story that I'd heard.
我听过的这个故事的一半是他们的。
But it turns out that, actually, as much as I was excited about going back and finding this family, it turns out that they had really been excited about the possibility that I was coming back.
但事实证明，事实上，尽管我对回去并找到这个家庭感到兴奋，但事实证明他们也对我回来的可能性感到非常兴奋。
Because it turned out there was this whole back story that I hadn't anticipated having to do with this house that had been my family's property.
因为事实证明，我没有预料到这整个背景故事与这栋曾经是我家财产的房子有关。
My translator-- actually Honorata's son is named Wieslaw Skowronski.
我的翻译——实际上奥诺拉塔的儿子名叫维斯瓦夫·斯科伦斯基（Wieslaw Skowronski）。
So I really want to talk to him, and hear what he remembers.
所以我真的很想和他谈谈，听听他还记得什么。
But his wife and his daughter start talking to my translator.
但他的妻子和女儿开始与我的翻译交谈。
I'm mean, just really, really rapidly.
我的意思是，真的，真的很快。
I am begging her to translate.
我恳求她翻译。
We're actually arguing.
我们其实是在吵架。
I'm like, "Manda, translate!" And she says "It's hard!
我说：“曼达，翻译一下！”她说：“这很难！
It's complicated!" And every time she tried to stop them, they would just keep going.
这很复杂！”每次她试图阻止他们时，他们都会继续前进。
And increasingly adamant.
并且越来越坚定。
Just over and over and over again.
只是一遍又一遍。
And I would say, "What's going on?" And she said, "Well, it has to do with the house.
我会说：“发生了什么事？”她说：“嗯，这和房子有关。
I think that they want your mother to sign some document?"
我想他们希望你妈妈签署一些文件？”
This pretty much, right here, is where Erin's entire dream is going to play out like some heartwarming A&E special, this is where that dream starts to fall apart.
这几乎就是艾琳的整个梦想将要上演的地方，就像一些温馨的急症室特辑一样，这就是梦想开始崩溃的地方。
And in this second meeting, Erin can't even the story straight of what family wants, and what's gone wrong with the house that they need fixed.
在第二次会议上，艾琳甚至无法直接了解家人想要什么，以及他们需要修复的房子出了什么问题。
And what they are even talking about.
以及他们在谈论什么。
All she can tell, from the urgency of their voices and their expressions, is that it is really, really important to them.
从他们声音和表情的紧迫感中，她只能看出这对他们来说真的非常重要。
It takes several more meetings, over the course of months, to get the whole thing straight.
在几个月的时间里，还需要召开几次会议才能把整个事情搞清楚。
Well, it turns out that my grandfather had to given Honorata Skowronski permission to live in his house, as the manager, but not to sell the place basically.
好吧，事实证明，我的祖父必须允许霍诺拉塔·斯科龙斯基（Honorata Skowronski）作为经理住在他的房子里，但基本上不能出售这个地方。
It was the only right she didn't have.
这是她唯一没有的权利。
And she had the power to collect the rent from tenants.
她有权向房客收取租金。
There were, I think, eight or 10 apartment buildings.
我想有八到十栋公寓楼。
And she could collect the rent from the tenants.
她还可以向房客收取租金。
She had to pay the taxes.
她必须缴税。
And she could keep whatever was leftover.
剩下的东西她都可以保留。
And that arrangement worked perfectly fine until 1995, when Honorata Skowronski died.
这种安排一直运行良好，直到 1995 年 Honorata Skowronski 去世。
And then the tenants stopped paying.
然后租户停止付款。
They said, you are not the owner, we don't have to pay you.
他们说，你不是业主，我们不需要付钱给你。
And so they went, her son and his wife, went to the municipality for support.
于是，她的儿子和他的妻子就前往市政府寻求支持。
And said, you know, help us force these renters to pay.
并说，你知道，帮助我们迫使这些租客付款。
And the town said, well, let me see the deed, and they look at the deed.
镇上的人说，好吧，让我看看契约，然后他们就看看契约。
And there's this name, Friedrich, on the deed.
房产证上有这个名字，弗里德里希。
And they're like, who's Friedrich?
他们问，弗里德里希是谁？
And they're like, well, you know, there was this Jew and he had a daughter and we saved the daughter.
他们就像，嗯，你知道，有一个犹太人，他有一个女儿，我们救了那个女儿。
But it fly.
但它会飞。
And so, meanwhile, they still have to pay the taxes.
因此，与此同时，他们仍然需要纳税。
They have to pay the taxes, they have to pay the utility bills.
他们必须缴纳税款，必须支付水电费。
But they can't collect rent from the tenants.
但他们不能向租户收取租金。
The tenants are living there for free.
租户免费住在那里。
Do you volunteer to basically get your mom to sign a paper for them?
你是否自愿让你妈妈为他们签署一份文件？
What do you do?
你做什么工作？
I was like, yeah, sure.
我当时想，是的，当然。
Yeah.
是的。
I'll look into it.
我会调查一下。
Later on I would actually discover that it's, frankly, not anywhere close to as simple as they though that it was.
坦率地说，后来我实际上发现它并不像他们想象的那么简单。
In fact, the lengths that Erin has to go through to clear up this bit of business for them are breathtaking, even by the standards of nations that used to be behind the Iron Curtain.
事实上，即使按照曾经处于铁幕后面的国家的标准来看，艾琳为他们清理这笔生意所花费的时间也是惊人的。
We're going to dwell here on them at some length, because for any of us who have actually been caught up in some months long bureaucratic run around with an HMO, or the phone company, or our own federal government, it is heartening to know that there are still places in the world that make these kinds of problems with American bureaucracy seem minuscule.
我们将在这里详细讨论这些问题，因为对于我们任何一个真正陷入与 HMO、电话公司或我们自己的联邦政府长达几个月的官僚主义斗争的人来说，令人振奋的是，世界上仍然有一些地方使美国官僚主义的此类问题显得微不足道。
Yes, no matter how badly we can botch things up here in America sometimes, and God knows we can do it pretty badly sometimes, we can always console ourselves with the thought that things can be much worse.
是的，无论我们有时在美国把事情搞得多么糟糕，而且上帝知道我们有时会做得很糟糕，我们总是可以用事情可能会更糟的想法来安慰自己。
There is still, in this world, a special standard of bureaucratic horribleness known everywhere by the phrase "Former Soviet ally."
在这个世界上，仍然存在一种特殊的官僚主义可怕标准，“前苏联盟友”一词随处可见。
So I went to the Consulate and I asked for advice.
所以我去了领事馆寻求建议。
And they said, well, actually we don't give out advice.
他们说，好吧，实际上我们不提供建议。
They give you lists of lawyers who speak English.
他们为您提供会说英语的律师名单。
So I went to a lawyer, and actually his advice was very complicated, so I went to another lawyer.
所以我去找了一位律师，实际上他的建议很复杂，所以我去找了另一位律师。
And then that lawyer had completely different advice.
然后那位律师提出了完全不同的建议。
So I went to a third lawyer, and, in any event, they all basically agree on one thing.
所以我去找了第三位律师，无论如何，他们基本上都同意一件事。
And that is that, in fact, my mother couldn't sign anything, and I couldn't sign anything, and even if my grandfather were alive, he couldn't sign anything because, in fact, none of us own the property.
也就是说，事实上，我的母亲不能签署任何东西，我也不能签署任何东西，即使我的祖父还活着，他也不能签署任何东西，因为事实上，我们都不拥有该财产。
The property is owned by Israel and Zizsla Friedrich, who are my great grandparents.
该房产归以色列和齐斯拉·弗里德里希所有，他们是我的曾祖父母。
And so what I needed to do before I could do anything at all to help the Skowronski's with their property problem, was to inherit the house from my great grandparents.
因此，在我能做任何事情来帮助 Skowronski 一家解决他们的财产问题之前，我需要做的就是继承我曾祖父母的房子。
But the first hurdle for that is before you can even begin an inheritance procedure, you have to file a death certificate with a register of wills.
但第一个障碍是，在您开始继承程序之前，您必须提交一份带有遗嘱登记册的死亡证明。
But I didn't have a death certificate, because they died in the Holocaust.
但我没有死亡证明，因为他们死于大屠杀。
So I went to Auschwitz.
所以我去了奥斯维辛。
But, of course, Auschwitz had no records of my great grandparents having been there.
但是，当然，奥斯威辛集中营没有我的曾祖父母去过那里的记录。
I don't even know if they were there.
我什至不知道他们是否在那里。
I know they didn't survive.
我知道他们没能活下来。
And, even if they had survived, they would be like, 130.
而且，即使他们幸存下来，他们也会像 130 人一样。
So they still needed you to prove that they were dead, even though if they were alive they'd be 130 years old?
所以他们还需要你证明他们已经死了，即使他们活着也已经130岁了？
Correct.
正确的。
So I figure, well, OK, at least let me prove how old they are.
所以我想，好吧，至少让我证明他们的年龄。
So let me try and find their birth certificates.
所以让我试着找到他们的出生证明。
But I go to the Bedzin records for that time period, and there's no records of my family at all.
但我查阅了贝津那段时间的记录，发现根本没有我家人的记录。
Meaning that they probably weren't in Bedzin at that time.
这意味着他们当时可能不在贝津。
They must have been in a smaller village.
他们一定是在一个较小的村庄里。
So I basically spend six months driving around to villages that I know have the surname Friedrich in them.
所以我基本上花了六个月的时间开车去一些我知道姓弗里德里希的村庄。
And I would pull up these giant genealogy books that have birth, marriage, and death records.
我会拿出这些巨大的家谱，上面有出生、婚姻和死亡的记录。
And they are these big, dusty, yellow books.
它们就是这些厚厚的、布满灰尘的黄色书本。
And I turn the pages in search of my great-grandparents.
我翻页寻找我的曾祖父母。
And, actually, my friend translating the marriage record of my great-great-uncle, had a reference to a town called [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
事实上，我的朋友在翻译我曾叔父的婚姻记录时，提到了一个叫做[无法理解]的小镇。
So I go to [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and I actually find my great-grandfather's birth certificate.
所以我去了[无法辨认]，实际上我找到了我曾祖父的出生证明。
So I get this record.
所以我得到了这个记录。
And then I give it to my lawyer and he's like, "Well, OK, what about your great-grandmother?" And actually, I still have no idea where she was born, so I don't have that record.
然后我把它交给我的律师，他说：“好吧，那你的曾祖母呢？”事实上，我仍然不知道她出生在哪里，所以我没有那个记录。
I said, OK, I can prove that she gave birth in 1895.
我说，好吧，我可以证明她是1895年生的。
And they're like, OK, well, we'll see.
他们说，好吧，我们拭目以待。
But in any event-- so first we apply to get their death certificate, which ultimately takes three and a half years, to get a death certificate.
但无论如何——所以我们首先申请拿到他们的死亡证明，最终需要三年半的时间才能拿到死亡证明。
But to make the inheritance procedures move forward, she needs documentation on each and every one of her great-grandfather's heirs, all of whom have a potential claim on the building.
但为了推进继承程序，她需要她曾祖父的每一位继承人的文件，所有这些继承人都对该建筑拥有潜在的所有权。
I'm not the only heir.
我不是唯一的继承人。
My great-grandparents had eight children, four of whom died in the war, four of whom survived, including my grandfather.
我的曾祖父母有八个孩子，其中四个在战争中丧生，其中四个幸存，包括我的祖父。
And three of his siblings who moved to the United States before the war.
还有他的三个兄弟姐妹，他们在战前移居美国。
And of those three siblings, one had four children, two had two children, all of their children had children, and there were great-great-grandchildren, and something like 50 heirs that I could count living at the time.
在这三个兄弟姐妹中，一个有四个孩子，两个有两个孩子，他们所有的孩子都有孩子，还有玄孙，还有我当时能数出来的大约 50 个继承人。
So for every heir that we were going to declare in the process, and ultimately we ended up choosing a representative from each branch of the family, we had to prove the entire chain between us and my great-grandparents.
因此，对于我们要在此过程中宣布的每一位继承人，以及最终我们从每个家族分支中选出的代表，我们都必须证明我们和我的曾祖父母之间的整个链条。
So for me alone, I had to have my grandfather's birth and death record, my mother's birth, marriage, and death record, to prove why her name had changed from Friedrich to Einhorn.
所以就我个人来说，我必须有我祖父的出生和死亡记录，我母亲的出生、结婚和死亡记录，才能证明她的名字为什么从弗里德里希变成了艾因霍恩。
And then every record that came from the United States had to be sent to a Polish Consulate.
然后，来自美国的每张记录都必须发送到波兰领事馆。
And not just any Polish Consulate, because different Polish Consulates are responsible for different American states.
不仅仅是任何波兰领事馆，因为不同的波兰领事馆负责不同的美国州。
So my birth certificate in Detroit, had to go to the consulate in Chicago.
所以我在底特律的出生证明必须去芝加哥领事馆。
While my grandfather's death certificate from Atlanta had to go to the consulate in Washington.
而我祖父的死亡证明则必须从亚特兰大到华盛顿领事馆办理。
And meanwhile, this whole process is going on, I've now spent-- well I paid $2,000 to my lawyer, I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on these documents, ordering the documents, all this time.
与此同时，整个过程正在进行中，我现在已经花了——好吧，我付给我的律师 2,000 美元，我在这些文件上花费了数百美元，订购这些文件，一直如此。
But every time I go to the Skowronski's, they're still having problems.
但每次我去 Skowronski 家，他们仍然遇到问题。
Because they still can't collect the rent, they still have to pay the taxes, they still have all these problems.
因为他们仍然无法收取租金，他们仍然需要缴纳税款，他们仍然面临所有这些问题。
And so I'm showing up and they say, "So, hey, what's going on the property?" And I said, "Well, you know, it's going to take a long time." But they become increasingly frustrated with me.
当我出现时，他们会说：“那么，嘿，这片土地上发生了什么事？”我说：“嗯，你知道，这需要很长时间。”但他们对我越来越失望。
And do they feel like you're trying to steal the property from them?
他们是否觉得您试图窃取他们的财产？
I think that they just think that I'm not trying hard enough.
我认为他们只是认为我不够努力。
They don't understand why they're still having these problems, two years after they met me.
他们不明白为什么在认识我两年后仍然遇到这些问题。
And there was a couple of incidents where they started to yell at me, and they'd say-- we were actually arguing over who owned the house.
有几次他们开始对我大喊大叫，他们会说——我们实际上是在争论谁拥有这栋房子。
They insisted my grandfather owned the house.
他们坚持认为这所房子是我祖父的。
And I would say, "No, it's my great-grandfather, that's why it's so complicated." And they'd say,"No, your grandfather owned it, and he gave it to our mother." And I'd say, "No, look it says on the deed, Israel Friedrich, he is my great-grandfather." And they would say, "No, your grandfather owned it."
我会说，“不，这是我的曾祖父，所以事情才这么复杂。”他们会说：“不，你的祖父拥有它，他把它给了我们的母亲。”我会说，“不，看看房产证上写着，伊斯雷尔·弗里德里希，他是我的曾祖父。”他们会说：“不，你祖父拥有它。”
And we just do this.
我们就是这么做的。
I mean, we did this for a year, basically.
我的意思是，我们基本上这样做了一年。
Arguing over who owned the house on the deed.
就地契上房子的所有权归属争论不休。
It's during these months where she is arguing with the Skowronski's, and driving around to records offices in these tiny villages, Erin has an entire second line of detective work that she's doing.
正是在这几个月里，艾琳一边与斯科伦斯基一家争论，一边开车去这些小村庄的档案办公室，她正在做第二线的侦探工作。
She has a stack of letters, and other documents, and she's getting these translated from German and Polish and Yiddish and Swedish and Hebrew.
她有一叠信件和其他文件，她正在将这些文件从德语、波兰语、意第绪语、瑞典语和希伯来语翻译过来。
And as she does this, a whole other version of the family history-- these two family histories, I guess-- slowly begins to emerge.
当她这样做时，家族史的另一个版本——我猜这两个家族史——慢慢开始出现。
And it is not a pretty history.
这并不是一段美好的历史。
It is not in a heroic Polish woman, and a grateful father now in America.
这不是一位英勇的波兰妇女，也不是一位现在在美国感恩的父亲。
Erin found out that there was a reason the two families had not been in contact for years.
艾琳发现两家人多年来没有联系是有原因的。
It was more than they had just fallen out of touch.
这不仅仅是他们刚刚失去联系。
One of the first letters that Erin reads is from May 22, 1962.
艾琳读到的第一封信是 1962 年 5 月 22 日写的。
Nearly two decades after the end of the war.
战争结束已近二十年。
And this was actually a handwritten letter, in Polish, from Honorata Skowronski to my grandfather.
这实际上是一封手写的波兰语信，是霍诺拉塔·斯科龙斯基写给我祖父的。
The letter starts out, "Dear Mr. Friedrich, I am writing to you after such a long time because we haven't been corresponding.
这封信的开头是这样的：“亲爱的弗里德里希先生，我在这么长时间后才给您写信，因为我们还没有通信。
Because you are a man of honor.
因为你是一个有尊严的人。
I have been waiting for your letter, and maybe you have been waiting for mine.
我一直在等你的信，也许你也一直在等我的信。
Now I'm writing to you that I am sorry.
现在我写信给你表示歉意。
You may be angry at me, because of the letters I wrote to you.
你可能会因为我写给你的信而生我的气。
I also was offended because of the way you wrote to me, but let's forget about that.
我也因为你写信给我的方式而感到被冒犯，但让我们忘记这一点吧。
I was happy to have someone abroad, and I felt that you were my brother.
我很高兴在国外有一个人，我觉得你是我的兄弟。
And you are so cold to me.
而你对我却如此冷漠。
I don't want much.
我想要的不多。
All I want is us to live in peace, because life is so short.
我想要的只是我们平静地生活，因为生命如此短暂。
We should be kind to each other.
我们应该善待彼此。
Mr Friedrich, let's forget about it.
弗里德里希先生，让我们忘掉它吧。
I'm just curious how you are doing?
我只是好奇你怎么样？
Is Arentka married?
阿伦特卡结婚了吗？
Does she have family?
她有家人吗？
Is she doing all right?
她还好吗？
Are you in good health?
你身体好吗？
How is your family?
你的家人怎么样？
Are you still close with your brothers and your sister?
你和你的兄弟姐妹关系还亲密吗？
Regarding the house, Mr. Friedrich, I will write everything about it.
关于房子，弗里德里希先生，我会写下有关它的一切。
There are eight tenants, and they pay 40 zloty each per month, with all the utilities.
有八个租户，他们每个月支付 40 兹罗提，以及所有水电费。
If you don't believe that I am able to manage your property, you can ask anybody or the municipality.
如果您不相信我能够管理您的财产，您可以询问任何人或市政府。
I have just carried out a renovation but the money goes to municipality, so I have nothing left.
我刚刚进行了翻修，但钱都归市政当局所有，所以我什么也没有剩下。
At least the house is kept in order, and is well-maintained.
至少房子收拾得井井有条，维护得很好。
Mr. Friedrich, maybe you could come see your property?
弗里德里希先生，也许您可以来看一下您的房产？
You could see its condition.
你可以看到它的状况。
I would be very happy to see you here with Arentka.
我很高兴在这里见到你和阿伦特卡。
I would like to see my daughter.
我想见见我的女儿。
I would be very honored to see her.
见到她我会感到非常荣幸。
And if you cannot come to Poland, maybe I could visit you and then I could see how the world looks.
如果你不能来波兰，也许我可以拜访你，然后我可以看看世界是什么样子。
Maybe I will write some more in the next letter.
也许我会在下一封信中再写一些。
Best regards to you, to Arentka, and to your family.
向您、阿伦特卡和您的家人致以最诚挚的问候。
Skowronski."
斯科龙斯基。”
That letter just is so full of intrigue of what were they fighting about?
那封信充满了他们在争论什么的阴谋？
Right, you say, well-- I had some idea that there had been a conflict there.
是的，你说，好吧——我知道那里发生了冲突。
The comments my mother would make, like, "Oh, she only did it for the money." And there was also a family story, my mother had said, about how Honorata had once asked my grandfather to send her a Chevrolet.
我母亲的评论是，“哦，她只是为了钱才这么做。”我母亲说，还有一个家庭故事，是关于奥诺拉塔曾经要求我祖父送她一辆雪佛兰的故事。
He was in Detroit, I guess.
我猜他在底特律。
That's where Chevrolets come from.
这就是雪佛兰的由来。
I knew there was something there, but, then I had more letters translated.
我知道那里有东西，但是，后来我翻译了更多的信件。
There was one from January, 1959, that her grandfather wrote to a lawyer in Poland, apparently concerned about what was going on at his house.
1959 年 1 月，她的祖父写信给波兰的一位律师，显然很担心他家里发生的事情。
He tells the lawyer that he's just found out that Skowronski doesn't pay the taxes in the building, and got into debt, because the city seized some factory buildings that were part of the property.
他告诉律师，他刚刚发现斯科龙斯基没有缴纳大楼的税款，并陷入了债务，因为市政府没收了属于该房产一部分的一些厂房。
Quote, "All of this happened without my knowledge, so I hope you can clear this up."
引用：“所有这一切都是在我不知情的情况下发生的，所以我希望你能澄清这一点。”
Then, about six months later, July 17, 1959, he gets a letter from somebody in Bedzin, probably a neighbor.
然后，大约六个月后，即 1959 年 7 月 17 日，他收到一封来自贝津的某人（可能是邻居）的来信。
Erin can't actually tell, because the name is illegible.
艾琳实际上无法分辨，因为这个名字难以辨认。
It's four pages of single spaced, typed, really dense.
这是四页单行距的打字稿，内容非常密集。
It's an absolute screed.
这绝对是一篇文章。
Dated July 17, 1959 in Bedzin, and addressed to my grandfather on Cloverlawn Street in Detroit.
日期为 1959 年 7 月 17 日，写于贝德津，写给我在底特律 Cloverlawn 街的祖父。
"Dear sir," the writer of the letter addresses him.
“亲爱的先生，”这封信的作者对他说道。
"I don't like prying into other people's affairs, especially as I have some disagreements with Skowronski, caused by her.
“我不喜欢打听别人的事情，尤其是因为我和斯科伦斯基有一些分歧，都是她造成的。
Hoping that this letter will remain absolutely confidential, I don't want any other disagreements with such a rude person as Skowronski, I find it necessary to inform you about the situation, because I wouldn't like you to lose your house.
希望这封信绝对保密，我不想与像斯科龙斯基这样粗鲁的人有任何其他分歧，我认为有必要向您通报情况，因为我不希望您失去您的房子。
These are the facts.
这些都是事实。
One, Skowronski administrates your property in a very robbing way.
第一，斯科龙斯基以一种非常抢劫的方式管理你的财产。
She scrounges all that she can out of the house without investing anything.
她从家里搜罗一切能找到的东西，却没有进行任何投资。
She doesn't maintain it well, doesn't care about renovations, even doesn't want to have it removed from the municipal funds.
她维护得不好，不关心装修，甚至不想把它从市政基金中剔除。
That is why the house is untidy and rundown.
这就是为什么房子又乱又破旧。
Anyway, she doesn't seem to know what order is, and she started growing pigs in the cellar.
反正她好像也不知道什么是秩序，就开始在地窖里养猪了。
Worse, Skowronski doesn't pay the taxes as well.
更糟糕的是，斯科龙斯基也不纳税。
And she doesn't pay the municipality money she collects from the occupants for water, et cetera.
她也没有向市政当局支付她从居住者那里收取的水费等费用。
Skowronski doesn't have time and goodwill to take care of the house.
斯科龙斯基没有时间和善意来打理房子。
She deals with trading, and is out all the time.
她是做贸易的，常年外出。
She has constant problems with police and cases at the court.
她经常与警察和法庭上的案件发生冲突。
Recently, she had a very serious case for abusing her children.
最近，她遭遇了一起非常严重的虐待孩子案。
She may even go to prison for a long time.
她甚至可能会被关进监狱很长一段时间。
And then the house will be abandoned completely."
然后房子就会被完全废弃。”
So, as you're reading this letter.
所以，当你读这封信时。
what are you thinking?
你在想什么？
I'm thinking, no wonder he was freaking out.
我心想，怪不得他如此惊慌。
No wonder he was angry.
难怪他生气了。
No wonder he wrote her a presumably nasty letter which would have prompted a nasty fight, which would have caused her, several years later, to have to write that apology.
难怪他给她写了一封可能很令人讨厌的信，这会引发一场令人讨厌的争吵，这将导致她在几年后不得不写下道歉信。
And to plead for forgiveness and try to get in his-- "Mr. Friedrich, I consider you my brother.
请求宽恕并试图融入他的——“弗里德里希先生，我认为你是我的兄弟。
I want to see my daughter." She feels badly that they'd had this fight.
我想见见我的女儿。”她为他们发生了这场争吵感到难过。
And when you're reading this, do you feel like she's probably in the wrong?
当你读到这篇文章时，你是否觉得她可能错了？
I think both sides clearly had a legitimate position.
我认为双方的立场显然都是合法的。
Even if-- you know what?
即使——你知道吗？
So she was raising pigs in the cellar.
所以她在地窖里养猪。
But she saved my mother's life.
但她救了我母亲的命。
And I think probably if Mrs. Skowronski was writing to him, and asking him to send her things, that's probably because she had the perception of America that many people do.
我想，如果斯科龙斯基夫人写信给他，要求他给她寄东西，那可能是因为她和许多人一样对美国有看法。
That it's this nation of wealth.
这就是这个富裕的国家。
And my grandfather had been wealthy before the war, so he is this rich Jew in America.
我的祖父在战前就很富有，所以他就是美国这个富有的犹太人。
And why is he giving her grief about this house?
为什么他要让她为这所房子感到悲伤？
Why doesn't he just pay the?
他为什么不直接付钱呢？
Debts
债务
And, of course, he was very poor, very struggling in the United States.
当然，他在美国非常穷，非常苦苦挣扎。
He had had epilepsy from being beaten on the head in Auschwitz.
他因在奥斯威辛集中营头部遭到殴打而患上癫痫症。
And though he was a tool and die maker, and should have been doing well, he would have epileptic seizures on the floor of auto plants.
尽管他是一名工具和模具制造商，而且应该做得很好，但他会在汽车工厂的地板上癫痫发作。
And then would be promptly fired, several decades before the ADA.
然后很快就会被解雇，比 ADA 早了几十年。
And if all this weren't complicated enough, Erin discovered that Honorata Skowronski had been awarded a medal from Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem.
如果这一切还不够复杂的话，艾琳发现霍诺拉塔·斯科伦斯基被耶路撒冷大屠杀纪念馆授予了一枚奖章。
A medal that nobody in Erin's family knew about.
艾琳家里没人知道这枚奖章。
The medal's called the Righteous Among the Nation's medal.
该奖章被称为“国家正义奖章”。
And it's given to non-Jews who risked their own lives to save Jews during the Holocaust.
它是颁发给在大屠杀期间冒着生命危险拯救犹太人的非犹太人的。
Because of the medal, Honorata also got a pension from a Jewish organization in her old age.
因为获得了奖章，奥诺拉塔晚年还得到了犹太组织的养老金。
But the most interesting thing in Honorata's Yad Vashem file, and the most helpful thing in piecing together the past, was a statement that she wrote, typed in polish, dated September 7, 1983, that laid out more clearly and systematically than anything else, point by point, how Honorata viewed what had happened between the two families over the years.
但奥诺拉塔在大屠杀纪念馆的档案中最有趣的事情，也是对拼凑过去最有帮助的事情，是她用波兰语写的一份声明，日期为 1983 年 9 月 7 日，比其他任何事情都更清晰、系统地逐条阐述了奥诺拉塔如何看待这些年来两个家庭之间发生的事情。
Erin reads.
艾琳读着。
"This case concerns the help I gave to the Jewish child under the German occupation in Poland.
“此案涉及我向德国占领下的波兰犹太儿童提供的帮助。
During the German occupation, I lived Dombrowa Gornicza, Parkowa Street.
德国占领期间，我住在帕克瓦街多姆布罗瓦戈尔尼察。
Mr. Friedrich, and his one and a half year old daughter, Arenna, lived in Bedzin, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] Street, number 20, and his wife was taken away to the ghetto.
弗里德里希先生和他一岁半的女儿阿伦娜 (Arenna) 住在贝德津街 [无法辨认] 20 号，他的妻子被带到贫民区。
In July of the same year, I took his daughter, Arenna.
同年7月，我带着他的女儿阿里娜。
I prepared a birth certificate for Arenna, with my family's surname.
我为阿里纳准备了一份出生证明，上面写着我家人的姓氏。
I carried the child on my own back from the border while escaping from Dombrowa to [?
我背着孩子从边境逃离 Dombrowa 到 [？
Myehov ?].
梅耶霍夫？]。
And so, as not to let the people know that she was Jewish, I used to change the color of her hair.
因此，为了不让人们知道她是犹太人，我常常改变她头发的颜色。
In November, 1945, Mr. Friedrich came back to get Arenna.
1945年11月，弗里德里希先生回来接阿雷纳。
She was five years old, and I gave her back to him in the presence of two witnesses.
她五岁了，我在两个证人在场的情况下把她还给了他。
She was crying very loud.
她哭得很大声。
She didn't know her father, and she was more attached to me than to her father.
她不认识她的父亲，而且她对我的依恋比对她父亲的依恋还要深。
She was crying and calling me, "Mommy, take me home with you."
她哭着喊我：“妈妈，带我回家吧。”
We made a photo of me, Mr. Friedrich, and the child as a souvenir when I was giving the child to Mr. Friedrich.
当我把孩子送给弗里德里希先生时，我们拍了一张我、弗里德里希先生和孩子的照片作为纪念。
I don't have this picture now because I've lost it.
我现在没有这张照片了，因为我已经把它弄丢了。
When they were about to depart, Mr. Friedrich promised to pay me back and told me that until the end of my life I would be all right and he would never forget about me.
当他们即将离开时，弗里德里希先生答应给我还钱，并告诉我，直到我生命的尽头我都会没事，他永远不会忘记我。
And all I got was the picture of Arenna in Sweden as a six-year-old child.
我得到的只是六岁孩子在瑞典阿雷纳的照片。
This was for all I did during the occupation.
这是我在占领期间所做的一切。
For hiding and taking care of the child.
为了隐藏和照顾孩子。
This is a very short summary of my taking care of Arenna.
这是我照顾阿里纳的一个非常简短的总结。
I used to correspond with Mr. Friedrich until 1950, but Mr. Friedrich hasn't responded until now.
1950年之前我一直与弗里德里希先生通信，但弗里德里希先生直到现在还没有回复。
Right now I am in a grave situation, paralyzed, and I can't walk.
现在我的情况很严重，全身瘫痪，无法行走。
All I want is to live until the moment when Mr. Friedrich will thank me.
我只想活到弗里德里希先生感谢我的那一刻。
The Jewish Historical Institute in Warsaw has all of my data, but I need to have all of the confirmation from Mr. Friedrich that I kept his daughter during the occupation."
华沙的犹太历史研究所拥有我的所有数据，但我需要弗里德里希先生的所有确认，证明我在占领期间保留了他的女儿。”
At points during that letter, she seems so bitter.
在这封信中，她有时显得很痛苦。
"This is all I got."
“这就是我的全部了。”
Yeah, and my family's version of events is that, in fact, they had plied her with gifts.
是的，我家人对事件的说法是，事实上，他们不断地给她送礼物。
That they had sent her all kinds of things and that she always wanted more.
他们给她寄了各种各样的东西，而她总是想要更多。
And as far as they're concerned, my grandfather blew them off, completely neglected them, completely mistreated their mother.
就他们而言，我的祖父对他们不屑一顾，完全忽视了他们，完全虐待了他们的母亲。
She died wishing he would come back, wishing her daughter would come back, resenting my grandfather.
她死时希望他能回来，希望她的女儿能回来，怨恨我的祖父。
But hearing the story about your mom crying when her dad shows up at the end of the war, and she's got to leave the Polish family, it seems clear from that that they really loved your mom.
但是，听到你妈妈在战争结束时她爸爸出现时哭了，而她必须离开波兰家庭的故事，显然他们真的很爱你妈妈。
I think they probably did, and I'm sure-- I know for sure that she cried, because that was her memory.
我想他们可能哭了，而且我确信——我确信她哭了，因为那是她的记忆。
She remembered having cried when her father came.
她记得父亲来时她哭了。
And I'm sure it was emotional for them.
我确信这对他们来说是激动人心的。
I mean, I don't think-- Wieslaw Skowronski's tears the day I met him, in May of 2001, were unfakeable.
我的意思是，我不认为——2001 年 5 月我见到 Wieslaw Skowronski 那天，他的眼泪是无法伪造的。
I mean, they were sincere.
我的意思是，他们是真诚的。
And not just that day.
而且不仅仅是那一天。
Every time I would go back there, his wife would be going on about the house, and there would be this moment where suddenly he would seem removed from the conversation.
每次我回到那里，他的妻子都会谈论房子的事情，而有时候，他似乎突然脱离了谈话。
And he would be looking at a photograph, and he would start to cry.
他会看着一张照片，然后开始哭泣。
It's just so interesting in the light of all of this, that your mom, and everybody else in your family, decided that the Skowronski's were just in it for the money.
鉴于这一切，这真是太有趣了，你妈妈和你家里的其他人都认为斯科伦斯基一家只是为了钱。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
It seems like from everything that you're finding that actually the Skowronski's were very sweet with her, and that she loved them.
从你所发现的一切来看，斯科伦斯基一家实际上对她非常友善，而且她也爱他们。
And it seems like in a way, the most convenient thing for everyone to believe for her to move on with her life, for her to believe and for your grandfather believe, was just that this Polish family had just done it for the money.
在某种程度上，对每个人来说，让她继续生活、让她相信、让你祖父相信，最方便的事情就是这个波兰家庭只是为了钱而这样做。
You know, to wipe out any fondness she had for them.
你知道，为了消除她对他们的任何喜爱。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, I think-- maybe it was a convenience.
我的意思是，我想——也许这是一种方便。
There's no way it was just for the money.
不可能只是为了钱。
She just didn't want to confront all that.
她只是不想面对这一切。
And her coping mechanism, it's a very popular coping mechanism, is denial.
她的应对机制，这是一种非常流行的应对机制，就是否认。
And that's what she did.
她就是这么做的。
That was why she told me her story as it wasn't a big deal.
这就是为什么她告诉我她的故事，因为这没什么大不了的。
She specifically told me, "I had an easy to childhood.
她特别告诉我，“我的童年很轻松。
I was lucky.
我很幸运。
I was always loved." And it was easy for her to kind of blow off how traumatic it must have been to be torn from place to place.
我一直都被爱着。”她很容易就能摆脱从一个地方撕裂到另一个地方的痛苦。
Which is why years later she's watching baby Jessica on television being ripped away from her adoptive parents, and the whole country is upset over how traumatic it was to watch this little girl, this two year old, being taken from the only parents she'd known.
这就是为什么多年后她在电视上看到婴儿杰西卡被从她的养父母身边夺走，整个国家都因为看到这个两岁的小女孩被从她唯一认识的父母身边带走是多么痛苦而感到不安。
And my mother's flipping off the TV in disgust and saying, "Ugh.
我妈妈厌恶地关掉电视，说：“呃。
That kid'll be fine.
那孩子不会有事的
The same thing happened to me."
同样的事情也发生在我身上。”
Erin's hope, of course, had been that by going to Poland, by doing all these things, she was going to reawaken some feelings in her mom about her own past, and about what happened during the war, and what happened with the Skowronski's.
当然，艾琳的希望是，通过去波兰，通过做所有这些事情，她能够重新唤醒妈妈对自己的过去、战争期间发生的事情以及斯科龙斯基一家发生的事情的一些感情。
And then, just as Erin was beginning this process of meeting with the Skowronski's, right after that first visit with Wieslaw, her mom dies.
然后，正当艾琳开始与斯科伦斯基一家会面时，就在第一次拜访维斯瓦夫之后，她的母亲去世了。
Cancer
癌症
For whatever reason, I just couldn't break this news to them.
不管出于什么原因，我就是不能把这个消息告诉他们。
Because Wieslaw had been so excited about seeing my mother again, after all these years.
因为这么多年后再次见到我的母亲，威斯瓦夫感到非常兴奋。
I mean, she had been essentially dead to him.
我的意思是，她对他来说基本上已经死了。
He didn't know where she was, she had vanished.
他不知道她在哪里，她已经消失了。
She was gone for his life for 50-som years and then, in early May, I show up and say, "She's alive.
她已经失踪了 50 索姆，然后，五月初，我出现并说：“她还活着。
She's 59 years old.
她今年 59 岁。
She's great."
她很棒。”
I just couldn't show up again, in July, when I got back to Poland, and say "Yeah, actually, no. Unfortunately she's died." I just couldn't do it.
七月，当我回到波兰时，我无法再次出现并说“是的，实际上，不。不幸的是她死了。”我就是做不到。
I ended up telling him several months later, after preparing him by breaking the news that she had cancer.
几个月后，我告诉了他她患有癌症的消息，让他做好了准备。
Then she was getting worse, and it was getting bad.
然后她的病情就越来越严重，而且越来越糟糕。
Just so it wouldn't be so shocking.
这样才不会那么令人震惊。
When I finally tell them that my mother has died in, I think, October of 2001, they're kind of sad.
当我最终告诉他们我的母亲去世于 2001 年 10 月时，他们有点悲伤。
And they're like, "Oh, I'm sorry." And then a few minutes pass, and then they're like, "OK, so what's going on with the house?" My heart just sank.
他们就像，“哦，对不起。”几分钟过去了，然后他们就会说：“好吧，那房子怎么样了？”我的心一下子沉了下去。
You know?
你知道？
Is it just you think I'm here to do what my grandfather should have done and that's it for you?
你只是觉得我来这里是为了做我祖父应该做的事，而这就是为了你吗？
Suddenly you were actually involved in the same relationship with them that your grandfather had been.
突然间，你实际上与他们建立了与你祖父相同的关系。
We ended up, I think, in a lot of ways, reliving the same thing.
我想，我们最终在很多方面都重温了同样的事情。
I think my grandfather, in some ways, may have been hurt by these letters he'd gotten from Honorata Skowronski asking for things.
我认为我的祖父在某种程度上可能被霍诺拉塔·斯科龙斯基寄来的这些索要东西的信所伤害。
And he was, after a while, he says, "Stop asking me for things.
过了一会儿，他说：“别再向我要东西了。
I'm grateful for all that you did, but I can only do so much." And I think I started feeling the exact same way.
我很感激你所做的一切，但我只能做这么多。”我想我开始也有同样的感觉。
Without this family, I don't exist.
没有这个家庭，我就不存在。
So my very existence is thanks to them, or thanks to Honorata Skowronski.
所以我的存在要感谢他们，或者感谢霍诺拉塔·斯科龙斯基。
But after awhile, I'm like, "Look, I'm trying.
但过了一会儿，我想，“看，我正在努力。
I'm doing what I can.
我正在尽我所能。
I'm trying to help you, but I can only do so much."
我很想帮你，但我只能做这么多了。”
Should I have offered to pay their taxes?
我应该主动缴纳他们的税吗？
And how long does this debt last?
这笔债务持续多久？
So, she saves a life.
所以，她拯救了一条生命。
Now, saving a life is multi-generational heroism, you know?
现在，拯救生命是几代人的英雄主义，你知道吗？
If I have children or my brother has children, that we have children, our family lives on.
如果我有孩子或者我兄弟有孩子，我们也有孩子，我们的家庭就会继续下去。
So maybe the gratitude should be a multi-generational gratitude.
所以也许这种感恩应该是多代人的感恩。
But now it's 2005-- actually, Wieslaw passed away in 2002, a year after I met him.
但现在是 2005 年了——实际上，维斯瓦夫于 2002 年去世，也就是我认识他一年后。
This is the man you first met when you got there, yeah.
这是你到达那里时第一个见到的人，是的。
So he has passed away.
所以他已经去世了。
My mother has passed away.
我的母亲去世了。
My grandfather is gone.
我的祖父去世了。
Honorata is gone.
霍诺拉塔走了。
And now the person who's asking me to help them is the second wife of the son of the woman who saved my mother.
现在请我帮助他们的人是救了我母亲的女人的儿子的第二任妻子。
Just last year, in 2004, the family became so impatient with Erin, that they filed their own claim, under Polish squatter's law, saying they'd lived there for 30 years and they should get the building.
就在去年，2004年，这家人对艾琳非常不耐烦，他们根据波兰占屋法提出了自己的索赔，称他们已经在那里住了30年，他们应该得到这栋大楼。
Which led to other complications.
这导致了其他并发症。
The building is actually a duplex, and the owners of the other half of the building are a family in Israel.
该建筑实际上是复式建筑，另一半建筑的业主是以色列的一个家庭。
And they do not want to give up the building to the squatters, and they'd been trying to get Erin to take their side of things, and fight this Skowronski's.
他们不想把这座建筑让给擅自占地者，他们一直试图让艾琳站在他们一边，与斯科伦斯基的斗争。
Which means that people have been angry with Erin for years now about this building, and, whichever way that it works out, whoever ends up owning the building, somebody is still going to be mad at Erin.
这意味着人们多年来一直对艾琳这座大楼感到愤怒，而且，无论结果如何，无论谁最终拥有这座大楼，仍然会有人对艾琳生气。
So you go to Poland thinking you are going to have this sweet and nostalgic rejoining with these people, and you find yourself to be their reluctant, absentee, resented landlord.
所以你去波兰，以为你会和这些人重新团聚，甜蜜而怀旧，但你发现自己成了他们不情愿的、缺席的、怨恨的房东。
I certainly end up stepping into a role I hadn't anticipated.
我最终肯定会扮演一个我没有预料到的角色。
You know, I kind of thought, in a lot of ways, that the history was this book.
你知道，我认为，在很多方面，历史就是这本书。
And I was reaching up to a high shelf and fishing this book off the shelf.
我正走到一个高高的书架上，从书架上取出这本书。
And I would bring the book home, and show it to my friends and family and say look, isn't it beautiful?
我会把这本书带回家，拿给我的朋友和家人看，然后说，看，它不是很漂亮吗？
I never anticipated that the characters in the book lived on and that, in fact, the book was all beat up and that the book actually had resentments and feelings and--
我没想到书中的人物还活着，事实上，这本书已经被打败了，这本书里居然还有怨恨和感情，而且——
In fact, that you were going to be in the book, fighting it out with them.
事实上，你将在书中与他们战斗。
I'm certainly a conflicted character.
我确实是一个矛盾的性格。
And not necessarily as a heroine.
而且不一定是女主角。
I'm actually stepping into the role, in many ways, of the villain.
事实上，从很多方面来说，我正在扮演反派的角色。
Erin Einhorn, she's a reporter for the New York Daily News , and she has written a book about her experience with the house and the Skowronski's.
艾琳·艾因霍恩 (Erin Einhorn) 是《纽约每日新闻》的记者，她写了一本关于她在这座房子和斯科伦斯基家的经历的书。
It's just come out.
才刚出来啊
It's called The Pages in Between .
它被称为“中间的页面”。
[MUSIC - "EVERYTHING I OWN" BY KEN BOOTHE]
[音乐 - 肯·布斯的《我拥有的一切》]
Coming up, a man gets a chance to settle a 17-year-old score with help of the Chicago police.
接下来，一名男子有机会在芝加哥警方的帮助下算清 17 年前的冤案。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program, "Settling the Score." We have two stories today, and each one is about somebody in a situation where one things leads to another without them exactly sure where it is going.
今天的节目是《算清比分》。今天我们有两个故事，每个故事都讲述某人处于一种情况，一件事导致另一件事，但他们不确定事情的走向。
And they're forced to figure out some kind of past, which has been lost.
他们被迫找出某种已经丢失的过去。
And, in the end, you get to the question, can money solve certain kinds of problems?
最后，你会遇到这样一个问题：金钱能解决某些问题吗？
Especially big emotional things that have been brewing for years.
尤其是酝酿多年的重大情感事件。
We've arrived at act two of our program, Act Two, "The Things that Money Can Buy." Beau O'Reilly, who as been on our program a bunch of times, he tells the story.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕，第二幕，“金钱能买到的东西”。博·奥莱利（Beau O'Reilly）曾多次参加我们的节目，他讲述了这个故事。
A warning to listeners, before it begins, that at some point in this story Beau is going to refer to a way that people hide contraband, in their body cavities, and then remove it from said body cavities.
在开始之前向听众发出警告，在这个故事的某个时刻，博将提到人们将违禁品隐藏在体腔中，然后将其从所述体腔中取出的方式。
But he's going to use words more explicit than the words that I'm using right now.
但他将使用比我现在使用的词语更明确的词语。
OK, so you are pre-warned, if you find that shocking.
好的，如果您觉得这令人震惊，我们会预先警告您。
When Beau's story begins, he is flying back from overseas, from Germany.
当博的故事开始时，他正从海外、德国飞回来。
And as we come into O'Hare, they say over the loudspeaker, whatever, the intercom, "Would Richard O'Reilly"-- which is my real name-- "Would Mr. O'Reilly, would you please stay in your seat when we land." Now I realize that when they say, stay in your seat when you land, don't do it.
当我们进入奥黑尔机场时，他们通过扩音器或者对讲机说，“理查德·奥莱利”——这是我的真名——“奥莱利先生，我们着陆时请留在座位上好吗？”现在我意识到，当他们说“落地时留在座位上”时，请不要这样做。
Just get up and leave with everybody else.
起身和其他人一起离开。
Because it's not good news.
因为这不是什么好消息。
They're not there to help you probably.
他们可能不会来帮助你。
So we land.
所以我们着陆了。
And I sit in my seat.
我坐在我的座位上。
And everybody else gets off.
其他人都下车了。
And I'm the only person in this whole plane.
而我是整个飞机上唯一的人。
And then an official looking airport person comes up to me, with the stewardess, and says "Would you just please come to the front of the plane?" And now I'm asking, is there something wrong?
然后，一位看起来很正式的机场工作人员和空姐走到我面前，说道：“请您到飞机前面来好吗？”现在我想问，有什么问题吗？
Has something happened?
发生什么事了吗？
And I'm walking with a cane.
我拄着拐杖走路。
And this cane I've gotten in Germany, because I've hurt my back.
这根手杖是我在德国买的，因为我的背受伤了。
And I got this cane in Germany.
我在德国得到了这根手杖。
And it's a little nondescript, wooden cane.
这是一根不起眼的木手杖。
Except that it has a bullet on the end of it.
只不过它的末端有一颗子弹。
And so the point of this cane is this bullet.
所以这根手杖的要点就是这颗子弹。
And apparently that's a very normal period between the wars where they made canes and they stuck these bullets on the end.
显然，这是两次战争之间非常正常的时期，他们制造手杖，并将这些子弹粘在末端。
And it's a certain cane that they all have.
这是他们所有人都拥有的某种手杖。
And so I'm walking with his cane, and there are two Chicago policemen there.
所以我拄着他的拐杖走路，那里有两名芝加哥警察。
And The policeman grab me on both arms, on either side, and they ask me to put my hands behind my back.
警察抓住我的双臂，从两侧，他们要求我把手放在背后。
And one of them takes the cane, and they put me against the wall, and they ask me where my weapon is.
其中一个拿着手杖，把我靠在墙上，然后问我的武器在哪里。
"Where is it?" And I say, "I don't have a weapon." And they search my body, they hand search my body.
“它在哪里？”我说：“我没有武器。”他们搜查我的身体，他们用手搜查我的身体。
And it turns out the weapon seems to be this cane.
事实证明，武器似乎就是这根手杖。
That this cane has been reported.
这根手杖已被报道。
And then they say, "You're under arrest." And they read me my Miranda rights.
然后他们说：“你被捕了。”他们向我宣读了我的米兰达权利。
And I say, "What am I under arrest for?" And they say, "We don't know, there's a warrant for your arrest." And they handcuff me behind my back.
我说：“我因什么而被捕？”他们说：“我们不知道，有逮捕令。”他们把我铐在背后。
There's a Chicago police station in O'Hare airport, sort of underneath O'Hare airport, which I never knew.
奥黑尔机场有一个芝加哥警察局，就在奥黑尔机场的下面，我从来不知道。
And they take me down in there and there's holding cells.
他们把我带到那里，那里有牢房。
It's pretty small.
它很小。
And I sit there for some period of time, maybe about an hour and a half, two hours or something.
我在那里坐了一段时间，大概一个半小时，两个小时之类的。
And then they come back in, it's a different cop, it's a bigger, older cop.
然后他们回来了，这是一个不同的警察，是一个更大、更老的警察。
And they say, we're going to take you into the city.
他们说，我们要带你进城。
They put me in the back seat of a squad car, they drive me into the city.
他们把我放在一辆警车的后座上，然后开车送我进城。
And by now it's night time.
现在已经是晚上了。
It's dark.
天黑了。
I think when we landed it was still day.
我想我们着陆时还是白天。
And they take me to a building, which turns out to be down in the Loop.
他们带我去了一栋大楼，结果那栋楼就在环路下面。
And they take me out and they take me through a basement, and up a an escalator, elevator type of thing.
他们带我出去，带我穿过地下室，然后乘坐自动扶梯、电梯之类的东西。
And then they take me and they put me in this cell.
然后他们带走我，把我关进牢房。
And the cells there are these little boxes really.
那里的牢房实际上就是这些小盒子。
And there's a metal bed, with some sort of mat.
还有一张金属床，上面铺着某种垫子。
And a toilet without a toilet seat, and that's it.
还有一个没有马桶座圈的厕所，仅此而已。
There's nothing else in there.
里面没有别的东西了。
And I'm in there by myself.
而我一个人在里面。
Again I ask what I've been arrested for, and again they say, we don't know.
我再次询问我因什么而被捕，他们再次说，我们不知道。
I ask for my phone call, and they say you can make your phone call in a certain period of time.
我要求给我打电话，他们说你可以在一定时间内打你的电话。
They leave me in there for a little while.
他们让我在那里待了一会儿。
And I'm sitting on the bed and the man in the cell next to me begins to shout and scream.
我坐在床上，旁边牢房里的男人开始大喊大叫。
And he sounds loud and big.
而且他的声音很大很大。
He sounds like a big man.
听起来他是个大人物。
And no one comes when he shouts and screams.
当他大喊大叫时，没有人来。
And he's screaming for the for the jailer to come, he wants him to come.
他尖叫着呼唤狱卒来，他希望他来。
And so he starts to pound with both fists on the wall, that is my wall and his wall are the same wall.
于是他开始用双拳头敲打墙壁，那是我的墙和他的墙是同一堵墙。
And it's like a drum, so there's this very big [POUNDING NOISES] sound going with it.
它就像一个鼓，所以伴随着很大的[敲击声]声音。
And this screaming.
还有这尖叫声。
This goes on for really a long time.
这种情况持续了很长一段时间。
Like, literally hours.
就像，字面上的几个小时。
And every once in a while, somebody comes in and yells at him.
每隔一段时间，就会有人进来对他大喊大叫。
And he stops for a couple of beats, and then he continues.
他停了几拍，然后继续。
And so I can't sleep, even if I want to sleep.
所以即使我想睡觉，我也睡不着。
And then the cell opens, and this young man comes in.
然后牢房打开，这个年轻人走了进来。
And he's a newly arrested prisoner as well, as he quickly tells me.
他很快告诉我，他也是一名新被捕的囚犯。
And he's already pretty high, which I know.
而且我知道他已经很高了。
I can tell that.
我可以这么说。
And he tells me quickly, too.
他也很快告诉我。
So we have a little discussion about what it's like to be high.
所以我们对吸毒是什么感觉进行了一些讨论。
And he sits down, and he says, "Well, do you want to do some?
他坐下来，说道：“好吧，你想做点什么吗？
Because I got to do this before the morning." And I said, "Do some?
因为我必须在早上之前完成这件事。”我说：“做一些吗？
No No, I don't want to."
不不，我不想。”
And he takes this aluminum foil-- it's dope.
他拿走了这张铝箔纸——这是毒品。
I'm not sure what it is.
我不确定它是什么。
I figured it was smack because of the way he acted.
我觉得这很糟糕，因为他的行为方式。
But I wasn't sure.
但我不确定。
And he has it up his ass.
他已经把它搞砸了。
And he literally leans over and he pulls it out of his ass.
他真的倾身过去，把它从屁股里拔了出来。
And then he unwraps it and he takes it.
然后他打开它并拿走了它。
And he very quickly gets really, really stoned.
他很快就变得非常非常醉。
And very loquacious.
而且很健谈。
And so he's talking, he's telling me mostly about the day, and the neighborhood and where he lives and what he can get and what he can't get when he's on the street.
所以他在说话，他告诉我的主要是这一天、邻居、他住在哪里，以及当他在街上时他能得到什么和不能得到什么。
And what job he could get if he could just get over there and do it.
如果他能去那里做的话，他能得到什么工作呢？
He is mostly just rambling through.
他大多只是漫无目的地走过。
And after the first, you know, 15 minutes of it, I'm done talking to him.
在第一次，你知道，15 分钟之后，我就和他谈完了。
So I pretend to sleep.
所以我假装睡觉。
And I lie on the top of the bed with my eyes closed, but he keeps talking.
我躺在床上闭着眼睛，但他却一直在说话。
And periodically the man, who has stopped slamming, begins to slam again on the wall next to us.
每隔一段时间，那个停止猛击的人就会再次猛击我们旁边的墙壁。
So that's the first night.
这就是第一个晚上。
In the morning, a new jailer comes and says now I can make the phone call.
早上，一位新狱卒过来告诉我现在可以打电话了。
So I go and I make the phone call and I reach a family member who says they'll reach somebody else who will reach a lawyer.
所以我去打电话，联系了一位家庭成员，他说他们会联系其他人，他们会联系律师。
That's all I know.
我只知道这些。
And again, still, no one has given me an answer to what I had been arrested for.
再说一次，仍然没有人对我被捕的原因给出答案。
The second night, I think the second night-- and this seems like the middle of the night, it seems like midnight, one o'clock in the morning, I really don't know what time is, they come and they got me.
第二天晚上，我想第二个晚上——这似乎是半夜，似乎是半夜，凌晨一点，我真的不知道是什么时间，他们来了，他们抓住了我。
And they say, you have a visitor.
他们说，你有访客。
And they take me to one of those rooms that you see in the prison movies where there's a glass thing and you to speak through a grate, and there's a little microphone that barely works.
他们带我去了你在监狱电影中看到的一个房间，那里有一个玻璃东西，你可以通过格栅说话，还有一个几乎不能用的小麦克风。
And there's things written on the inside the Plexiglas and scratched with pens or something.
有机玻璃内部写着一些东西，并用钢笔或其他东西刮过。
And my sister-- one of my sisters-- is there.
我的妹妹——我的姐妹之一——也在那里。
And she has this whole sheath of papers.
她有一整套文件。
So she holds up these papers so that I can see them, and it's from the state of Wisconsin.
所以她举起这些文件以便我可以看到它们，它是来自威斯康星州的。
And my daughter's name is on the piece of paper.
纸上写着我女儿的名字。
I have a daughter.
我有一个女儿。
This case is about my daughter.
这个案子是关于我女儿的。
The state of Wisconsin is suing me for back child support.
威斯康星州正在起诉我索要子女抚养费。
17 years before.
17年前。
I think it's about $14,000 or something at this point.
我认为目前大约是 14,000 美元左右。
And I see the paper, and I'm very surprised by it, because the history of it is that I lived with this woman, and we had a child.
我看到这篇论文，我对此感到非常惊讶，因为它的历史是我和这个女人住在一起，我们有一个孩子。
And we didn't have jobs.
而且我们没有工作。
And if you are on welfare and food stamps and you're unmarried, the state of Wisconsin will bill the father in the form of child support.
如果您领取福利金和食品券并且未婚，威斯康星州将以子女抚养费的形式向父亲收取费用。
So when my daughter was three years old and she was living with me, I was called in to court.
因此，当我女儿三岁时，她和我住在一起时，我被传唤到法庭。
And I went in front of the judge, and I said, "I don't think I should have to be paying this money, because I am raising my child, and I'm paying for her care." And the judge said, "You're right.
我走到法官面前，说：“我认为我不应该支付这笔钱，因为我正在抚养我的孩子，我正在支付她的护理费用。”法官说：“你是对的。
get out of here."
离开这里。”
And I assumed, at that point, that had been stricken from the books.
那时我认为这已经从书中删除了。
And I just walked out of the courtroom that day, I didn't pay any money, I didn't get arrested.
那天我刚走出法庭，我没有付任何钱，我没有被捕。
I took the bus home.
我坐公共汽车回家。
And I guess that that never got written down, there was some clerical error about it, because it was never changed in the system.
我想这从来没有被写下来，有一些笔误，因为它在系统中从未改变过。
The state of Wisconsin still thought I owed them this money, plus interest.
威斯康星州仍然认为我欠他们这笔钱，外加利息。
And I never heard from them again until now.
直到现在我再也没有收到他们的消息。
And so this is 17 years later that this is now happening, from that court appearance.
从那次出庭算起，现在已经是 17 年后发生的事情了。
I'm sitting in the cell and my own past is catching up to me.
我坐在牢房里，我自己的过去追上了我。
Within a year of me going in front of the judge in Wisconsin, my daughter's mother really shifts direction, and she starts religion hopping is what I used to call it.
在我在威斯康星州接受法官审判的一年之内，我女儿的母亲确实改变了方向，她开始信仰跳跃，这就是我以前所说的。
Where she moves from one religion to another and she moves around a lot during this time.
她从一种宗教转向另一种宗教，并且在这段时间里经常搬家。
She keeps leaving, coming back and leaving and coming back.
她不断地离开，回来，离开，又回来。
And in the course of that year, I also start going the opposite direction.
在那一年里，我也开始走向相反的方向。
Smoking a lot more pot than I had before, and drinking heavily.
比以前吸更多的大麻，并且酗酒。
And one day I come home and my daughter's mother has taken my daughter.
有一天我回到家，我女儿的妈妈把我的女儿带走了。
And left.
然后离开了。
And at first I thought that that would change pretty quickly.
起初我以为这种情况很快就会改变。
I expected to hear from them over the next period of months.
我希望在接下来的几个月里能收到他们的消息。
I didn't.
我没有。
I went further and further into lots of dope and lots of alcohol, and it wasn't until years later, after I had long stopped drinking and smoking pot, that I was able to really look at my own responsibility for it.
我越来越沉迷于大量毒品和酒精，直到多年后，在我长期停止喝酒和吸大麻之后，我才能够真正审视自己对此的责任。
That I had messed up.
原来是我搞砸了。
That I was responsible for someone and I didn't take care of her.
我对某人负责，却没有照顾她。
I didn't see here.
我没看到这里。
I didn't help wit money.
我没有帮忙钱。
And then it was a long time, 12 years, which is impossible to ever make that right.
然后过了很长一段时间，12年，这一切都不可能恢复正常。
Just too long.
就是太长了。
And finally my daughter contacted me when she was 14 or 15, and I saw how much I'd hurt her.
最后，我女儿在 14 或 15 岁的时候联系了我，我看到了我对她的伤害有多大。
There was no pretense about it.
没有任何假装。
There's no "I'm sorry, let's make it right," because there's something that's completely been lost and broken.
没有“对不起，让我们改正”，因为有些东西已经完全丢失和损坏了。
And the kid had no say about it.
而孩子对此也没有任何发言权。
And that begins a series of contacts then between my daughter and I.
这就是我和女儿之间一系列接触的开始。
And it's often uncomfortable.
而且常常会感到不舒服。
She's a teenage girl, a suburban teenage girl.
她是一个十几岁的女孩，一个郊区的十几岁的女孩。
We don't know each other.
我们互不认识。
It can be hard to find things to talk about.
很难找到可以谈论的话题。
And as time goes on over this, I call her, she doesn't call me back.
随着时间的推移，我给她打电话，她却没有给我回电话。
She calls me, I don't call her back right away.
她给我打电话，我没有立即给她回电话。
Things get put off.
事情被推迟了。
And there's still a lot of distance in the relationship.
而且关系上还存在着很大的距离。
That next morning, they bring me and what seems like probably about 60 other guys and they take us to now the big courthouse where we're all going to be tried.
第二天早上，他们带了我和大约 60 个其他人，他们带我们去了现在的大法院，我们都将在那里接受审判。
And there they bring you-- I think it's like four cells.
他们给你带来了——我想这就像四个牢房。
So there's maybe 300 guys in these four cells.
所以这四个牢房里可能有 300 个人。
And I'm sitting on this bench, and these three older men come in.
我坐在这张长凳上，这三个年长的男人进来了。
And everybody seems to know them, and they sort of spread out and give them the space.
每个人似乎都认识他们，他们分散开来，给他们空间。
And they sit on this central bench.
他们坐在中央的长凳上。
And one of them takes out a joint and lights it.
其中一个拿出一根大麻烟点燃了它。
And they pass this joint back and forth, and they sit there and smoke it.
他们来来回回地经过这个大麻烟，然后坐在那里抽烟。
And nobody says anything.
没有人说什么。
They just smoke this joint.
他们只是抽这种大麻烟。
Then these two young men come up to where I'm sitting, and one of them says, "Give us some money.
然后这两个年轻人走到我坐的地方，其中一个说：“给我们一些钱。
Give us your money.
把你的钱给我们。
We want to get some.
我们想要一些。
Give us your money." And I said, "Well, no. I'm not going to give you my money." And they said, "Well, you have some money in that jacket, right?" I say, "Yeah, actually I do.
把你的钱给我们。”我说：“好吧，不。我不会给你我的钱。”他们说：“好吧，你那件夹克里有钱，对吗？”我说：“是的，实际上我愿意。
But it's my money.
但这是我的钱。
I'm going to probably need it." I'm keeping this, again, this quietness of tone, but, again, not looking him right in the eye.
我可能会需要它。”我再次保持这种平静的语气，但是再次没有直视他的眼睛。
And he's like, "No, man, I'm telling you.
他说：“不，伙计，我告诉你。
Give me the money." And I say, "Well, I'm not going to."
把钱给我。”我说：“好吧，我不会。”
So then a third guy comes, and the three of them are standing around me in the circle.
然后第三个人来了，他们三个站在我周围，围成一圈。
And the first young man is doing most of the speaking.
第一个年轻人大部分时间都在讲话。
And he's insisting, "I'm going to take your jacket.
他坚持说：“我要拿你的夹克。
I want your money." And then, across the way, one of the older man says "Hey.
我要你的钱。”然后，在路对面，一位年长的男子说：“嘿。
Pops.
流行音乐。
Pops." And I look up, and he's looking at me.
爸爸。”我抬起头，他正在看着我。
And he says, "It's Pops, right?" And I say, "Yeah, yeah.
他说：“是爸爸，对吧？”我说：“是啊，是啊。
Pops." And he says, "Yeah, that's just Pops.
爸爸。”他说：“是的，那就是爸爸。
Leave him alone."
别管他了。”
And the three young men sort of move away, and the guy says again, "Pops, you want some of this?" Some of this being the dope.
三个年轻人走开了，那家伙又说：“爸爸，你想要一些这个吗？”其中一些是毒品。
To smoke.
抽烟。
And I say, "No, no thank you."
我说：“不，不，谢谢。”
And here I am, I'm in jail because of what I did, you know, 20 years ago and the year I was living 20 years ago.
我在这里，因为我 20 年前的所作所为以及 20 年前我所生活的那一年，我入狱了。
And I'm surrounded by these guys that I really recognize from that way of living.
我周围的人都是我从那种生活方式中认识的人。
I was proud of that, I lived like them too.
我为此感到自豪，我也像他们一样生活。
This is who I was, when I lost my daughter.
这就是我失去女儿时的我。
So I get taken into the courtroom and my lawyer says, "I think we can get you off.
所以我被带进法庭，我的律师说：“我想我们可以让你下台。
We certainly can get this reduced.
我们当然可以减少这种情况。
You don't have to pay all of this money.
您不必支付所有这些钱。
So what is it that you want to do?" And I thought about it.
那么你到底想做什么？”我想了想。
And I said, "No, I think I know what I want to do.
我说：“不，我想我知道自己想做什么。
Which is that I want to make this right today.
这就是我今天想要解决的问题。
I want to pay this money." And the lawyer said, "No, come on, you don't have to do that.
我想付这笔钱。”律师说：“不，得了吧，你不必这样做。
It's too much money.
钱太多了。
We can get you off of this."
我们可以让你摆脱这一切。”
And I thought about it.
我想了想。
And it wasn't that I felt that by paying the money I would be then closer to my daughter.
我并不是觉得付了钱就能和我女儿更亲近。
It wasn't that.
不是那样的。
It was, I'm wanting at this point, to make amends to my daughter in any way possible.
我此时想要以任何可能的方式弥补我的女儿。
Whatever is going to make her life easier, whatever I can do for her, now I'll do.
无论能让她的生活变得更轻松，无论我能为她做什么，现在我都会做。
I'm actually grateful for it, because it gives me a means.
我其实很感激它，因为它给了我一种手段。
It give me a way, it gives me a clear, simple way.
它给了我一种方法，它给了我一种清晰、简单的方法。
So a deal is struck, right there in front of the judge, where if I can come up with a portion of the money right then, they'll release me and set up a monthly payment plan where I get to pay off the rest of it.
这样就在法官面前达成了一项协议，如果我当时能拿出一部分钱，他们就会释放我，并制定每月付款计划，我可以付清其余部分。
And I do that.
我就是这样做的。
And I don't know if my daughter even knows that the money came from me.
我不知道我女儿是否知道这些钱是我出的。
But I know that the money went to her.
但我知道钱都给了她。
Something then really did change between us.
然后我们之间确实发生了一些变化。
And what changed was me.
而改变的是我。
I could talk to her more easily.
我可以更轻松地与她交谈。
I could show her the way I felt about her more easily.
我可以更轻松地向她展示我对她的感觉。
And because I responded with ease, she responded to that over time.
因为我的反应很轻松，所以随着时间的推移，她也做出了反应。
She was then more easy with me.
那时她对我就轻松多了。
She was more able to just be easy with me.
她更能轻松地对待我。
And when she really gets into difficulty, and has trouble, a few years later, she's able to reach out to me.
几年后，当她真的遇到困难、遇到麻烦时，她就能联系到我。
And I'm able to reach back.
我能够回来。
So this weird trip into the underworld has really actually been this weird gift to me.
所以这次奇怪的地下世界之旅对我来说确实是一份奇怪的礼物。
If it took being dragged off a plane, and handcuffed and held in a jail cell and being around people pulling heroin out of their asses and going to court.
如果这需要被从飞机上拖下来，戴上手铐，关在牢房里，周围有人从屁股里抽出海洛因，然后上法庭。
If it took all that to bring about some sort of resolution of something between me and my daughter, then it was worth it.
如果这一切能够让我和我女儿之间的某件事得到某种解决，那么这是值得的。
Playwrite and actor Beau O'Reilly.
编剧兼演员博·奥莱利。
He is performing as the Lord of the Underworld in Euridice at the Victory Gardens Theater in Chicago.
他在芝加哥胜利花园剧院扮演《尤丽迪丝》中的地狱之王。
It opens the first week of October.
它于十月的第一周开放。
I carried the child on my own back from the border while escaping from Dombrowa to Miejov.
当我从多姆布罗瓦逃往米耶约夫时，我背着孩子从边境逃了出来。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week, with more stories of This American Life.
下周将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
Next week, her on the podcast of This American Life.
下周，她将参加《美国生活》的播客。
Saving 500, 1,000 kids, 1,500 kids simply was not going to make a difference.
拯救 500、1,000、1,500 名儿童根本不会产生任何影响。
We had to really think big.
我们必须真正从大处着想。
Life inside a radical new experiment to eliminate urban poverty, that draws on new research about how kids develop and is implemented on a scale unlike any program ever undertaken, anywhere in this country.
生活在一项旨在消除城市贫困的全新实验中，该实验利用了关于儿童如何发展的新研究，并以不同于该国任何地方实施的任何计划的规模实施。
That's next week on your local public radio station and here on the podcast.
下周，您当地的公共广播电台和这里的播客将播出这一内容。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。