294: Image Makers - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #294 | August 4, 2006 294: Image Makers Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 294 集 | 2006 年 8 月 4 日 294：图像制作者 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Kristy went to one of those high schools for the performing arts, like in Fame , except not good.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯·克里斯蒂 (Ira Glass Kristy) 在其中一所高中学习表演艺术，就像《名誉》中那样，但成绩不佳。
One of her teachers would leave the room for long stretches to smoke cigarettes, another spent lots of class time gossiping about which celebrities were dating.
她的一位老师会长时间离开教室抽烟，另一位老师则花大量课堂时间八卦哪些名人在约会。
One of my music teachers, he never got the memo about separation of church and state.
我的一位音乐老师，他从未收到过关于政教分离的备忘录。
He would talk about Jesus all the time.
他总是谈论耶稣。
And he actually would ask, "So, raise your hands.
他实际上会问：“那么，请举手。
How many of you went to church on Sunday?
你们中有多少人周日去教堂？
I bet you would have gone to church if I would have given you extra credit."
我敢打赌，如果我给你额外的分数，你一定会去教堂的。”
When a jazz piano class conflicted with World History, her counselor simply signed her out of World History.
当爵士钢琴课与世界历史发生冲突时，她的辅导员干脆让她退出了世界历史。
He listed it on her transcript as a class that she took, but she never actually went to class.
他在她的成绩单上将其列为她参加的课程，但她从未真正去上课。
It was that kind of school.
就是这样的学校。
She was there to study piano, and that's what she devoted all of her energy to.
她是来学习钢琴的，并且投入了全部的精力。
She practiced after school for four hours to eight hours a day.
她每天放学后练习四到八小时。
Yeah, so I practiced a lot.
是的，所以我练习了很多。
I mean, I didn't really know much outside the walls of the practice room.
我的意思是，我对练习室之外的事情知之甚少。
And I just really realized, when I got to college, I was way behind.
当我进入大学时，我才真正意识到，我已经落后了。
I mean, I didn't even know how to write a paper, you know?
我的意思是，我什至不知道如何写论文，你知道吗？
But it wasn't exactly in class in college that she realized just how far behind she was.
但直到大学课堂上她才意识到自己落后了多远。
She could fake it in class.
她可以在课堂上假装。
It was on stage that she realized, in an improvisational comedy troupe that she joined as a freshman.
她是在舞台上认识到的，当时她是大一新生，加入了一个即兴喜剧团。
On stage, her lack of knowledge could be kind of harrowing.
在舞台上，她缺乏知识可能有点令人痛苦。
Like, if someone referred to Henry Kissinger in a scene, I'd just have no idea who that was, at all.
就像，如果有人在一个场景中提到亨利·基辛格，我根本不知道那是谁。
The audience would throw out suggestions, like the Hindenburg thing.
观众会提出建议，比如兴登堡事件。
[LAUGHS] Ira Glass The Hindenburg disaster, yeah.
[笑] Ira Glass 兴登堡灾难，是的。
And then you had to re-enact it on a stage in front of people, and you had no idea what it referred to?
然后你必须在舞台上在人们面前重新表演它，而你不知道它指的是什么？
I cannot tell you how many times something like that happened, where everybody was laughing and I had no idea why they were laughing.
我无法告诉你这样的事情发生过多少次，每个人都在笑，而我不知道他们为什么笑。
It was really scary, actually, to be honest.
说实话，这真的很可怕。
I mean, I was so nervous.
我是说，我太紧张了。
And I really wanted to stay in the troupe.
我真的很想留在剧团。
I didn't want to get kicked out, but I really was so clueless.
我不想被赶出去，但我真的很无知。
In one of the sketches they would do on stage, they would ask the audience for a bunch of historical events, and then they would do their own little renditions of these events in the historical order that they happened.
在他们在舞台上做的一个小品中，他们会向观众询问一系列历史事件，然后他们会按照这些事件发生的历史顺序对这些事件进行自己的小演绎。
And in performing this one day, Kristy confounded her cast mates by putting World War I before the Salem witch trials, but she did manage to locate it after the invention of the wheel.
有一天，在表演时，克里斯蒂将第一次世界大战置于塞勒姆女巫审判之前，这让她的剧组成员感到困惑，但在轮子发明后，她确实设法找到了它。
And after the whole show, everybody was like, "God, Kristy.
整个演出结束后，每个人都说：“天哪，克里斯蒂。
What was up with that?
这是怎么回事？
I mean, why did you start off with World War I?
我的意思是，你为什么要从第一次世界大战开始？
It was the Salem witch trials." They just thought that I wasn't thinking.
这就是塞勒姆女巫审判。”他们只是认为我没有思考。
And I was like, "I didn't know that World War I came after the Salem witch trials."
我当时想，“我不知道第一次世界大战是在塞勒姆女巫审判之后发生的。”
[LAUGHS] Yeah.
[笑]是的。
They kind of looked at me in disbelief.
他们用一种难以置信的眼神看着我。
Did you know what the Salem witch trials were?
你知道塞勒姆女巫审判是什么吗？
I did.
我做到了。
You know what, honestly?
老实说，你知道吗？
You know, I don't even think it's about that.
你知道，我什至不认为这与此有关。
I think it's about that I didn't remember anything about World War I.
我想这是因为我不记得关于第一次世界大战的任何事情。
I thought if it was World War I, it must have happened a long time ago.
我想，如果是第一次世界大战，那一定是很久以前的事了。
Because it's the first war.
因为这是第一次战争。
Ira Glass That ever happened.
艾拉·格拉斯 这曾经发生过。
Sure.
当然。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
It was like, well, invention of the wheel, then it must have been World War I.
这就像，好吧，轮子的发明，那么一定是第一次世界大战。
Right.
对。
Kristy Kruger I had no idea it happened in the 1900s, you know?
Kristy Kruger 我不知道这发生在 1900 年代，你知道吗？
So, to cope with this problem you were having, that you were on stage, you have no idea what's going on, people are laughing at you, and you have no idea why, did you come up with any kind of coping strategy?
那么，为了应对你遇到的这个问题，你在舞台上，你不知道发生了什么，人们在嘲笑你，你也不知道为什么，你有没有想出任何应对策略？
I totally did.
我完全做到了。
I came up with some characters that, in their essence, it was OK to be ignorant.
我想出了一些角色，从本质上讲，无知是可以接受的。
So I would use a stoner a lot of times.
所以我会多次使用石头器。
I'd be like, "Whoa, dude.
我会说，“哇，伙计。
I have no idea what's going on." And then I would use the troll, which was really my favorite.
我不知道发生了什么事。”然后我会使用巨魔，这真的是我最喜欢的。
I would just kind of throw my hair in my face and talk in gibberish.
我会把头发扔到脸上然后胡言乱语。
And I'd just be like, Dar!
我就会说，达尔！
Flar!
弗拉尔！
Figgy floo!
无花果飞路！
Vee floogle ooh!
Vee 弗鲁格尔哦！
Flogalo vase!, like that.
弗洛加洛花瓶！就像这样。
You'd be in the middle of a scene with another performer, and suddenly that's what you would do?
你会和另一位表演者一起表演一个场景，突然间你就会这么做？
You would just get a stumper?
你会被绊倒吗？
Yeah, in every scene, regardless of the time period or setting.
是的，在每个场景中，无论时间段或背景如何。
Does that work?
那有用吗？
Kristy Kruger Yeah.
克里斯蒂·克鲁格 是的。
It works.
有用。
[LAUGHS] Ira Glass And that's how Kristy turned things around for herself, by pretending to be exactly the thing she was scared she was: an ignorant babbler.
[笑]艾拉·格拉斯 这就是克里斯蒂为自己扭转局面的方式，她假装自己就是她害怕的那个人：一个无知的胡言乱语者。
I think that it saved me.
我想它救了我。
I think I was really lost in this troupe.
我想我真的迷失在这个剧团里了。
Did you get into social situations that were awkward in exactly the same way that being on stage was awkward, where people would be talking about stuff and you wouldn't know what the hell is going on, and then, basically, you would just turn into the troll?
你是否陷入了尴尬的社交场合，就像在舞台上尴尬一样，人们会谈论一些东西，而你不知道到底发生了什么，然后，基本上，你就会变成巨魔？
I wish that the troll would work in real-life situations, where you're sitting around having a conversation and someone brings up a historic reference that I have no clue, and everyone else is engaged in this, and I just kind of wish I could contribute by going, "Well, fig, floo!
我希望巨魔能在现实生活中发挥作用，当你坐在一起谈话时，有人提出了一个我不知道的历史参考资料，而其他人都在参与其中，我只是希望我能通过说“好吧，无花果，飞路！
Thar!
塔尔！
Flar!
弗拉尔！
Dar, de, var, far."
Dar、de、var、远。”
[LAUGHTER] But, it doesn't really work out that way.
[笑声]但是，事实并非如此。
Well, today, on our radio show, we have three stories of people in the same situation Kristy was in, where people think of them as up for grabs.
好吧，今天，在我们的广播节目中，我们讲述了三个与克里斯蒂处于相同情况的人的故事，人们认为他们是可以争夺的。
They're worried about how people will see them, and like Kristy--
他们担心人们会如何看待他们，就像克里斯蒂一样——
Flogalo vase!
弗洛加洛花瓶！
Ira Glass --they take action.
艾拉·格拉斯——他们采取行动。
They take control of how they're going to be seen with dramatic, drastic steps.
他们通过戏剧性、激烈的步骤来控制自己的形象。
Fig!
如图！
Floo!
飞路！
Thar!
塔尔！
Flar!
弗拉尔！
Far!
远的！
Ira Glass Well said.
艾拉·格拉斯 说得好。
Flar!
弗拉尔！
Dar, de, var, far!
Dar，de，var，远！
Ira Glass From WBEZ, Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
Ira Glass 来自芝加哥 WBEZ，这就是《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Act One of our show today, Dewey Decibel System.
我们今天的节目第一幕，杜威分贝系统。
In that story, an American institution calls in the cavalry, calls in very unlikely allies in order to change its own image.
在那个故事中，一个美国机构召集了骑兵，召集了不太可能的盟友，以改变自己的形象。
Act Two, Goldstein On Goldstein.
第二幕，戈德斯坦论戈德斯坦。
In that act, Mr. Jonathan Goldstein considers the question of manliness, specifically, his own manliness, and turns to a real man for answers, namely, his dad.
在那一幕中，乔纳森·戈德斯坦先生思考了男子气概的问题，特别是他自己的男子气概，并向一个真正的男人寻求答案，即他的父亲。
Act Three, Heart Shaped Box.
第三幕，心形盒子。
In that act, a mom decides that she's going to remake all of the ideas that her son has about his father using a very simple tactic.
在这一幕中，一位母亲决定用一种非常简单的策略来重塑儿子对父亲的所有想法。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One.
第一幕。
This first story is about an audacious act of rebranding done by a group of people who are not normally thought of as being very audacious at all: public librarians, in this case, teen librarians, the ones who work with teenagers.
第一个故事讲述了一群通常不被认为非常大胆的人进行的大胆品牌重塑行为：公共图书馆员，在本例中是青少年图书馆员，即与青少年一起工作的人。
Alex Blumberg prepared this report last summer.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格去年夏天准备了这份报告。
If you travel among the teen librarians of Michigan, as I did recently, you'll hear a strange phrase over and over again.
如果你像我最近一样在密歇根州的青少年图书馆员中旅行，你会一遍又一遍地听到一个奇怪的短语。
The phrase is lock-in, like, did you hear how the lock-in went the other night in Kalamazoo?
这个短语就是“锁定”，就像，你听说前几天晚上卡拉马祖的“锁定”是怎么进行的吗？
One of the biggest practitioners of the lock-in is a guy named Bill Harmer, the only person I've ever met who could accurately be described as a maverick teen librarian.
锁定的最大实践者之一是一个名叫比尔·哈默的人，他是我见过的唯一一个可以准确地描述为特立独行的青少年图书管理员的人。
He explained to me that a lock-in is when the library reopens its doors after closing time, lets a bunch of teenagers in, and then--
他向我解释说，锁定是指图书馆在关门时间后重新开门，让一群青少年进入，然后——
Once they come in to the building, they can't leave.
一旦他们进入大楼，就无法离开。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
Bill Harmer So they're stuck there until the program's over.
比尔·哈默：所以他们会被困在那里直到节目结束。
So inviting a bunch of teenagers to a library and then locking them in is a fun activity for them?
那么邀请一群青少年去图书馆然后把他们锁在里面对他们来说是一项有趣的活动吗？
Yeah.
是的。
They love it.
他们喜欢它。
They love it.
他们喜欢它。
Every time I've done one, we've had at least 50 or more teenagers show up.
每次我做一项活动时，都会有至少 50 名或更多的青少年参加。
It turns out, the lock-in is a state-of-the-art technique in the arsenal of the modern, teen librarian.
事实证明，锁定是现代青少年图书馆员武器库中最先进的技术。
The library has an image problem.
图书馆存在图像问题。
Teenagers see it as the equivalent of summer school: boring, no fun.
青少年将其视为暑期学校：无聊、无趣。
But Bill Harmer and his colleagues say that's the old library, and they're on a campaign to change people's perceptions.
但比尔·哈默和他的同事说那是旧图书馆，他们正在开展一场改变人们看法的运动。
Bill has attacked this problem with inspiring devotion.
比尔以鼓舞人心的奉献精神解决了这个问题。
He's had sleep-overs in the library where 50 kids camped out between the stacks.
他曾在图书馆过夜，那里有 50 个孩子在书库之间露营。
He's hosted late night car tournaments.
他举办过深夜汽车锦标赛。
He stocks the teen section with the latest in Japanese Manga comics and graphic novels.
他为青少年专区提供最新的日本漫画和图画小说。
And he's assembled the largest and most comprehensive DVD collection in the entire state, he says, including video stores.
他说，他收集了全州最大、最全面的 DVD 收藏，其中包括音像店。
But last fall, Bill hatched a plan to take teen library programming to a place it's never gone before, to leave the lock-in in the dust.
但去年秋天，比尔制定了一项计划，将青少年图书馆编程带到以前从未去过的地方，将锁定抛诸脑后。
The plan was this, stage a series of concerts inside libraries all over Michigan, but not the type of music normally associated with the library: acoustic instruments, lyrics about ducks and bunnies, singing puppets.
计划是这样的，在密歇根州各地的图书馆内举办一系列音乐会，但不是通常与图书馆相关的音乐类型：原声乐器、有关鸭子和兔子的歌词、唱歌的木偶。
[MUSIC - "SHOW A SIGN OF LIFE" BY THE HIGH STRUNG]
[音乐 - 由紧张的人“展示生命的迹象”]
No. This would be rock music with electric guitars and huge speakers.
不，这将是带有电吉他和巨大扬声器的摇滚音乐。
This would be, in other words, the state of Michigan's first ever rock and roll library tour.
换句话说，这将是密歇根州有史以来第一次摇滚图书馆之旅。
And I know what you're thinking.
我知道你在想什么。
Libraries: famously quiet.
图书馆：出了名的安静。
Rock and roll: famously loud.
摇滚乐：以响亮着称。
This is the diabolical genius of Bill Harmon's idea: making something appealing by binding it with its exact opposite.
这就是比尔·哈蒙（Bill Harmon）想法的恶魔般的天才：通过将某样东西与其完全相反的东西结合在一起来使其具有吸引力。
Card catalogs packed with Harry Potter and Judy Bloom and this.
卡片目录里挤满了《哈利·波特》和《朱迪·布鲁姆》等等。
[MUSIC - "SHOW A SIGN OF LIFE" BY THE HIGH STRUNG]
[音乐 - 由紧张的人“展示生命的迹象”]
The song you're listening to now is from the CD of the band that Bill Harmer booked on his library tour, an indie rock trio out of Detroit called The High Strung.
您现在正在听的歌曲来自 Bill Harmer 在图书馆巡演中预订的乐队的 CD，这是一支来自底特律的独立摇滚三重奏，名为 The High Strung。
We are The High Strung.
我们是高度紧张的人。
I'm Josh Malerman.
我是乔什·马勒曼。
I sing, and play the guitar, and write the songs.
我唱歌、弹吉他、写歌。
Derek?
德里克？
Oh, I'm Derek Berk.
哦，我是德里克·伯克。
I play the drums, and I fix the van.
我打鼓，修理货车。
And I take care of a lot of reality issues.
我处理很多现实问题。
No, I'm the CFO of the band.
不，我是乐队的首席财务官。
Chad Stocker I'm Chad Stocker, and I play the bass.
查德·斯托克（Chad Stocker） 我是查德·斯托克（Chad Stocker），我弹贝斯。
Most of the time we play at rock clubs.
大多数时候我们在摇滚俱乐部演奏。
Yeah, rock clubs.
是的，摇滚俱乐部。
It's like, if you can just picture a smoky bar, a lot of drunk people.
就像，如果你能想象一个烟雾缭绕的酒吧，里面有很多喝醉的人。
With a long-haired sound guy that's probably mad about something.
和一个长发健全的人在一起，他可能正在为某事生气。
The High Strung agreed to the library tour last December, and then they didn't think much about it.
去年十二月，高度紧张的人同意了图书馆之旅，然后他们就没有考虑太多。
But Bill, meanwhile, was going around to library conferences pitching the idea.
但与此同时，比尔正在图书馆会议上推销这个想法。
In the end, he booked 34 library shows, one every other day from June through August.
最后，他预订了 34 场图书馆演出，从 6 月到 8 月每隔一天一场。
When he came back to the band with this information a couple of months later, not only had they sort of forgotten about it, but they'd had no idea it was going to consume their entire summer.
几个月后，当他带着这个信息回到乐队时，他们不仅有点忘记了这件事，而且他们不知道这会消耗他们的整个夏天。
I talked with them two days before the tour started, and they were a little freaked out, more than a little.
巡演开始前两天我和他们谈过，他们有点害怕，甚至有点害怕。
No. I know.
不，我知道。
I know.
我知道。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
It's like this weird, unknown thing for a band to do because we're not like a novelty act.
对于一支乐队来说，这就像一件奇怪的、未知的事情，因为我们不像一个新奇的表演。
This tour, I think, is geared for sixth-graders to 12th-graders, for the most part, and their parents.
我认为这次旅行主要是针对六年级到十二年级的学生以及他们的父母。
I feel like we're almost going to be like tamed beasts.
我觉得我们快要像被驯服的野兽了。
Watch my language.
注意我的语言。
Don't get too close, kids.
孩子们，别靠得太近。
Chad Stocker Cover the liquor up off the breath, you know?
查德·斯托克 (Chad Stocker) 盖住酒气，知道吗？
We should be in a cage.
我们应该在笼子里。
Chad Stocker Yeah.
查德·斯托克 是的。
We are playing inside the libraries most the time.
我们大部分时间都在图书馆里玩耍。
And I went to one yesterday, and the guy showing me, he's like, "This is your stage." And it was, like, the reference desk.
昨天我去了一个，那个给我看的人说，“这是你的舞台。”就像咨询台一样。
[LAUGHTER] I was like, "Oh.
[笑声] 我当时想，“哦。
Yeah.
是的。
Where do we plug in?" He was like, "Plug in?"
我们在哪里插电？”他说：“插上电源吗？”
Josh, Derek and Chad have known each other since middle school.
乔什、德里克和查德从中学起就认识了。
They formed their band about five years ago in New York.
大约五年前，他们在纽约组建了乐队。
Early on, Josh booked a couple of live shows so they could get used to playing in front of people.
早些时候，乔什预订了几场现场表演，这样他们就可以习惯在人们面前表演。
Once they got on the road, they liked it so much they didn't want to quit.
一旦上路，他们就非常喜欢这条路，不想放弃。
They've been touring non-stop now for four years straight.
他们已经连续四年不间断地巡演了。
They've played in 42 of the 50 states to all different crowds.
他们曾在 50 个州中的 42 个州为不同的观众演出过。
In Austin, Texas, they played to an audience of over 1,000.
在德克萨斯州奥斯汀，他们为超过 1,000 名观众演出。
But a show in New Orleans that they drove all night to get to didn't have a single person.
但他们连夜开车去新奥尔良的一场演出却没有一个人。
Even the bartender left.
就连调酒师也离开了。
There was one guy there, but he was passed out drunk the entire show.
那里有一个人，但他整个演出都喝醉了。
They're in the position of a lot of indie bands: some critical recognition, one CD out, another one due this September, a website, something of a following.
他们处于许多独立乐队的境地：一些批评性的认可，一张 CD 发行，另一张将于今年 9 月发行，一个网站，一些追随者。
In short, a teeny bit of fame and not really any fortune.
简而言之，只是一点点名气，但并没有真正的财富。
We've been living off $10 a day, each, for four years now.
四年来，我们每人每天靠 10 美元生活。
Right.
正确的。
Josh Malerman Which is pretty nuts.
乔什·马勒曼（Josh Malerman） 这真是太疯狂了。
No matter how much money we make the night before, we each just get $10 a day.
不管前一天晚上我们赚了多少钱，我们每人每天只能得到 10 美元。
Who decides that?
谁决定呢？
Josh Malerman Our CFO.
乔什·马勒曼 我们的首席财务官。
A brilliant CFO.
一位出色的首席财务官。
Derek Berk There's been no adjustment for cost of living.
Derek Berk 生活费用没有调整。
[LAUGHTER] Josh Malerman He's not very progressive.
[笑声] Josh Malerman 他不是很进步。
No. I mean the dollar menu is still the dollar.
不，我的意思是美元菜单仍然是美元。
Sometimes there's a buy-out, which is exciting.
有时会出现收购，这很令人兴奋。
And that's, when?
那是，什么时候？
Derek Berk It's when they give you money.
德里克·伯克 这是他们给你钱的时候。
Some places you play at their restaurant too.
有些地方你也在他们的餐厅玩。
But, if they don't have food there, they'll either order you a pizza, or something, or a burrito, or [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
但是，如果他们那里没有食物，他们要么会给你点披萨，或者别的什么，或者墨西哥卷饼，或者[无法理解]。
Or there's the elusive buy-out where they actually give you cash.
或者是难以捉摸的收购，他们实际上给你现金。
That's the best.
那是最好的。
Derek Berk Then you can buy whatever you want.
Derek Berk 那么你可以买任何你想要的东西。
Cigarettes and a cheaper sandwich somewhere else.
香烟和其他地方更便宜的三明治。
Yeah.
是的。
Alex Blumberg I thought you meant you would take the money and go get something really, really good.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）我以为你的意思是你会拿着钱去买一些非常非常好的东西。
But you're actually [INAUDIBLE] even worse.
但实际上你[听不清]更糟。
No. You get something worse than what they would give you so you can save the money.
不。你得到的东西比他们给你的东西更糟糕，所以你可以省钱。
I know this is a digression, but one of the things I found most charming about the band is this fact.
我知道这是一个题外话，但我发现乐队最迷人的事情之一就是这个事实。
A while ago, they saw some footage on TV of an old Motown act.
不久前，他们在电视上看到了一些摩城老歌的片段。
Everyone in the group was wearing the same outfit.
小组中的每个人都穿着相同的衣服。
And they thought, now, those guys look together up there.
他们想，现在，那些家伙一起看着那里。
We should do that.
我们应该这样做。
So, a couple of months ago, they started performing every show in identical uniforms.
因此，几个月前，他们开始每场演出都穿着相同的制服。
Tight, white, really tight, white, outfits with blue stars up and down the sides, you know?
紧身、白色、非常紧身、白色、两侧上下有蓝色星星的衣服，你知道吗？
If you can imagine Evel Knievel, I guess.
我想，如果你能想象埃维尔·克尼维尔的话。
And it's more fun for me, man, because I feel like a superhero when we wear those outfits.
这对我来说更有趣，伙计，因为当我们穿上这些衣服时，我感觉自己像个超级英雄。
It separates you from the audience, or something, you know what I mean?
它将你与观众分开，或者其他什么，你知道我的意思吗？
It makes you into a television show, or a superhero, or something.
它让你成为电视节目、超级英雄或其他什么。
So how does that work if you're wearing the same costume every night?
那么，如果你每晚都穿着同样的服装，那会如何呢？
Yeah.
是的。
That's a great follow-up question.
这是一个很好的后续问题。
That is good.
那很好。
That's a very intelligent question.
这是一个非常聪明的问题。
For the first time ever, I'm really persistent about us cleaning something, because I want to make sure that we always have these uniforms to wear.
有史以来第一次，我真的坚持要我们清洁一些东西，因为我想确保我们总是穿着这些制服。
And they can be outrageous if we wear them for three shows in a row without washing them, so we've just got to find a laundromat in every city, you know?
如果我们连续穿着它们参加三场演出而不清洗它们，那就太离谱了，所以我们必须在每个城市找到一家自助洗衣店，你知道吗？
I hang out.
我出去玩。
These guys don't.
这些人没有。
I go and do that.
我去这么做。
And I'm alone at these weird laundromats in every town we go to.
在我们去的每个城镇里，我都独自一人在这些奇怪的自助洗衣店里。
Josh is kind of-- Josh Malerman In charge?
乔什是一种——乔什·马勒曼（Josh Malerman）负责？
Josh is kind of in charge of cleaning the laundry.
乔希负责清洗衣服。
[LAUGHTER] Cleaning the get-ups.
[笑声] 清洁起床。
We call them get-ups.
我们称之为起床。
We're like, you got the get-ups?
我们说，你起床了吗？
Yeah, they're in the bag.
是的，它们在袋子里。
There's a get-up bag, too.
还有一个起床包。
The High Strung, in many ways, are the perfect band for this tour, because they're both very rock and roll and very library.
从很多方面来说，High Strung 都是这次巡演的完美乐队，因为他们既非常摇滚又非常图书馆。
They've all been to college.
他们都上过大学。
Chad wears round glasses.
查德戴着圆框眼镜。
Josh says one of his main song writing inspirations is William Faulkner.
乔什说他的主要歌曲创作灵感之一是威廉·福克纳。
He actually wrote an outline for his last album in which he describes his 12 songs, each a different take on optimism.
他实际上为他的上一张专辑写了一个大纲，其中描述了他的 12 首歌，每首歌都表达了不同的乐观情绪。
And they're huge library patrons, and not just because they like to read.
他们是图书馆的忠实顾客，不仅仅是因为他们喜欢阅读。
The truth is, bands, nowadays, are in libraries all the time because there's the internet and stuff there.
事实是，如今，乐队一直在图书馆里，因为那里有互联网和其他东西。
And when you're on the road, it's a valuable place to go for a band.
当你在路上时，这里是一个值得乐队去的地方。
Yeah, It's our office.
是的，这是我们的办公室。
Chad Stocker It's like the field office.
查德·斯托克（Chad Stocker） 这就像现场办公室。
You got internet, and you got a clean toilet with, usually, there's toilet paper and a door that locks.
你有互联网，你有一个干净的厕所，通常有卫生纸和一个锁着的门。
Wait.
等待。
Are are you telling me that you guys stop at the library in every--
你是在告诉我你们每次都会去图书馆吗——
Yeah.
是的。
Shave there.
在那里刮胡子。
Josh Malerman We do.
乔什·马勒曼 我们愿意。
We usually shave there.
我们通常在那里刮胡子。
Yeah.
是的。
We're in a lot of libraries across the country.
我们在全国各地的许多图书馆都有。
I used to work at the Ann Arbor district library as a security guard there in college.
我大学时曾在安娜堡地区图书馆担任保安。
Oh, my gosh.
哦，天哪。
It was all leading to this.
这一切都导致了这一切。
And we used to have to kick out people that had their shoes off, or if they smelled too bad and got complaints, or if we caught them cleaning up in the bathroom, and stuff.
我们过去常常不得不把那些脱鞋的人赶出去，或者如果他们闻起来太臭而受到投诉，或者如果我们发现他们在浴室里清理等等。
And then, years later, I'm doing that.
然后，几年后，我就这样做了。
The next time I catch up with the band is at the Escanaba Public Library.
我下次见到乐队是在埃斯卡纳巴公共图书馆。
It's the band's 25th library in their 34-library tour.
这是乐队 34 个图书馆巡演中的第 25 个图书馆。
And the audiences, they say, have been all over the place.
他们说，观众遍布各地。
Some have been high school kids, mainly 16- to 18-year-olds.
其中一些是高中生，主要是 16 至 18 岁的孩子。
Others, like this crowd, have skewed much younger.
其他人，比如这群人，则更加年轻化。
It's about 40 kids, mostly between the ages of nine and 14, many of them swinging their legs on those stackable metal library chairs, accompanied by grandparents or parents.
里面有大约 40 个孩子，大部分年龄在 9 岁到 14 岁之间，其中许多人在祖父母或父母的陪伴下，在可堆叠的金属图书馆椅子上摇摆着双腿。
The emcee of today's show is the Assistant Children's Librarian, Charlotte Oshe, who does her own librarian version of, hello Escanaba, are you ready to rock?
今天节目的主持人是助理儿童图书管理员夏洛特·奥什 (Charlotte Oshe)，她用自己的图书管理员版本表演了“你好埃斯卡纳巴，你准备好摇滚了吗？”
Hello, kids.
哈喽，孩子们。
Congratulations for finishing your summer reading program contracts.
恭喜您完成暑期阅读计划合同。
We are so proud of you.
我们为你感到骄傲。
You are here to see a, what?
你来这里是为了看什么？
We're in a gray, carpeted conference room off the main floor of the library: fluorescent lights, a white board with a graph showing recent expenditures.
我们在图书馆主楼外一间铺着地毯的灰色会议室里：荧光灯、白板，上面有一张显示近期支出的图表。
This room is normally used for county budget meetings.
该房间通常用于县预算会议。
The band, in regular street clothes for this tour, takes the floor.
乐队在这次巡演中穿着常规的便装，上台发言。
How cool is it that your library does this, huh?
你们的图书馆这样做有多酷，对吧？
This is awesome.
这太棒了。
OK.
好的。
We are The High Strung.
我们是高度紧张的人。
Yeah.
是的。
Clap for your library.
为你的图书馆鼓掌。
This is great.
这太棒了。
[APPLAUSE] Josh Malerman Here It Comes Again .
[掌声]乔什·马勒曼又来了。
1, 2, 3, 4.
1、2、3、4。
[MUSIC - "HERE IT COMES AGAIN" BY THE HIGH STRUNG]
[音乐——神经质者的“又来了”]
The loudness definitely catches people off guard.
响亮的声音绝对让人措手不及。
Kids flinch, startled.
孩子们惊慌失措，畏缩不前。
Some of them cover their ears.
其中一些人捂住耳朵。
Watching it all, I feel very nervous for the band, for the kids, for the parents who brought the kids, for everyone.
看完这一切，我为乐队、为孩子们、为带孩子的父母、为每个人感到非常紧张。
When I ask the band about it later, they tell me nobody involved has any idea what to expect.
当我后来向乐队询问此事时，他们告诉我，没有人知道会发生什么。
It's like, what is going on here?
就像，这里发生了什么事？
You feel like you're in a sociology experiment.
你感觉自己就像在进行一项社会学实验。
This is let's put the loudest thing known to man inside the conference room of the library with a bunch of 10-year-old kids and see what happens.
让我们把人类已知的最响亮的东西和一群 10 岁的孩子一起放在图书馆的会议室里，看看会发生什么。
[LAUGHS] Chad Stocker There was kids that were scared when we were in Brighton.
[笑]查德·斯托克 当我们在布莱顿时，有些孩子很害怕。
In Brighton?
在布莱顿？
Chad Stocker Yeah.
查德·斯托克 是的。
Even though we were outside, they still had faces of disbelief.
尽管我们在外面，他们仍然一脸难以置信。
Or they were like, this is not what-- everyone's always telling me to be quiet here.
或者他们说，这不是——每个人总是告诉我在这里保持安静。
This is not supposed to be happening.
这不应该发生。
They said that to us, right?
他们对我们这么说，对吗？
Chad Stocker Yeah.
查德·斯托克 是的。
Yeah, almost to where they were angered.
是的，几乎到了他们愤怒的程度。
They were angered.
他们很生气。
Like, everything everyone's been telling me up to this point has been a lie.
就像，到目前为止每个人告诉我的一切都是谎言。
[LAUGHS] [MUSIC - "HERE IT COMES AGAIN" BY HIGH STRUNG]
[笑] [音乐 - HIGH STRUNG 的《HERE IT COMES AGAIN》]
In the audience, no one dances or even moves, really.
观众席上，真的没有人跳舞，甚至没有人动。
They all sit and watch, attentively but a little passively, like the way you'd watch someone reading aloud during story hour.
他们都坐下来观看，专注但有点被动，就像你在故事时间看某人大声朗读一样。
Between songs, the band throws in some public service-y library messages.
在歌曲之间，乐队会加入一些公共服务图书馆信息。
Another exciting thing about libraries are-- and this is something that we need, terribly-- are maps and atlases.
关于图书馆的另一个令人兴奋的事情是——这是我们非常需要的——是地图和地图集。
This is all reference material.
这都是参考资料。
You can check it out, but you can't check it out.
你可以查，但不能查。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
So in these maps, we find our way all over the country.
因此，在这些地图中，我们可以找到全国各地的道路。
And you can even look up crazy places all over the world.
您甚至可以查找世界各地疯狂的地方。
I want to know if anyone has been to Sweden or Venezuela?
我想知道有人去过瑞典或委内瑞拉吗？
No. OK.
不，好的。
The reason I asked because this next song we made a video for for MTV, and if you lived in Sweden or Venezuela, you may have seen it, because that's the only place [INAUDIBLE].
我之所以问这个问题，是因为我们为 MTV 制作了下一首歌曲的视频，如果您住在瑞典或委内瑞拉，您可能已经看过它，因为那是唯一的地方[听不清]。
This song is called Wretched Boy.
这首歌的名字叫《可怜的男孩》。
1, 2, 3, 4.
1、2、3、4。
[MUSIC - "WRETCHED BOY" BY THE HIGH STRUNG]
[音乐-紧张的“可怜的男孩”]
So here it is, the image of rock and roll and the image of the library going head to head.
这就是摇滚乐的形象和图书馆的形象正面交锋的地方。
Bill Harmer hopes that the image of rock and roll will win out and that the library will seem cooler as a result of this bizarre collision.
比尔·哈默希望摇滚乐的形象能够胜出，图书馆会因为这次奇怪的碰撞而显得更酷。
But what if the opposite proves true?
但如果事实恰恰相反呢？
The library wins, and this tour does nothing except make the band seem lame?
图书馆赢了，这次巡演除了让乐队显得蹩脚之外什么也没做？
Basically, you are being sort of retained to make this institution that is not necessarily seen as cool cooler.
基本上，你被保留是为了让这个不一定被认为很酷的机构变得更酷。
That's sort of a big responsibility.
这是一个很大的责任。
Do you guys feel cool enough?
大家觉得够酷吗？
That's a weird thing.
这是一件很奇怪的事情。
That's a really weird thing.
这真是一件很奇怪的事情。
That's the weirdest question I've ever been asked.
这是我被问过的最奇怪的问题。
I think so.
我想是的。
I think the public library-- That is a really weird question.
我认为公共图书馆——这是一个非常奇怪的问题。
I think the public library is really cool.
我觉得公共图书馆真的很酷。
Sure, yes.
当然，是的。
Derek Berk But I think that maybe people don't know it, and maybe teens don't know it.
德里克·伯克（Derek Berk）：但我认为也许人们不知道这一点，也许青少年也不知道。
Are we cooler than the library?
我们比图书馆酷吗？
No. Are we cooler than the idea of the library?
不。我们比图书馆的想法更酷吗？
Maybe.
或许。
As the show progresses, it seems less and less like a rock show in a library, and more and more like just a rock show.
随着演出的进展，它看起来越来越不像图书馆里的摇滚表演，而越来越像只是一场摇滚表演。
Josh gets on top of a table for his guitar solo and jumps off at the end.
乔什（Josh）爬到桌子上进行吉他独奏，最后跳了下来。
A group of adolescent girls sits in front of Chad, the bass player.
一群青春期女孩坐在贝斯手查德前面。
He's one of those happy musicians who can't help but smile an adorable smile while he plays super complicated riffs.
他是那些快乐的音乐家之一，当他演奏超级复杂的连复段时，他会情不自禁地露出可爱的微笑。
You can practically see the communal crush develop.
你几乎可以看到公共迷恋的发展。
Between songs, they flirt with him.
在歌曲之间，他们与他调情。
One girl complains that her tan this summer came out usually orange and that she looks like an Oompa Loompa.
一名女孩抱怨说，今年夏天她的晒黑皮肤通常是橙色的，而且她看起来像 Oompa Loompa。
[YOUNG GIRLS LAUGHTER] Chad Stocker What?
[年轻女孩的笑声] 查德·斯托克 什么？
Aren't Oompa Loompas green?
奥帕伦帕斯不是绿色的吗？
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
[插话]
Oh.
哦。
I like their pants.
我喜欢他们的裤子。
Oompa Loompa's got cool, cool clothes.
Oompa Loompa 的衣服很酷。
1, 2, 3.
1、2、3。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Alex Blumberg I know the show is going well when, at one point, I notice that Josh has actually broken one of his guitar strings.
[音乐播放] Alex Blumberg 我知道演出进展顺利，有一次，我注意到 Josh 实际上断了一根吉他弦。
By the time the head children's librarian comes out and does the librarian version of let's give it up for the band, I said let's give it up for the band, one thing's for sure: this county library conference room has been rocked harder than it's ever been rocked before.
当儿童图书馆馆长出来做图书管理员版本的“让我们为乐队放弃吧”时，我说“让我们为乐队放弃吧”，有一件事是肯定的：这个县图书馆的会议室已经受到了前所未有的震动。
Boys and girls, would you truly let these gentlemen know how much we appreciate them?
孩子们，你们真的能让这些先生们知道我们有多么感激他们吗？
Come on, really let them know.
来吧，真正让他们知道。
[APPLAUSE AND SCREAMS] Alex Blumberg But the question is, was it rocked hard enough to actually change the image of the library?
[掌声和尖叫] Alex Blumberg 但问题是，它的震动是否足以真正改变图书馆的形象？
I talked to scores of kids at three different library shows in three different towns.
我在三个不同城镇的三个不同的图书馆展览上与几十个孩子进行了交谈。
Maybe half are what you'd call library kids, part of the teen reading club, or on a first-name basis with the local librarian.
也许有一半是你所说的图书馆孩子，青少年阅读俱乐部的成员，或者与当地图书馆员的名字。
The rest just saw ads in the paper, or their parents did.
其余的人只是在报纸上看到了广告，或者他们的父母看到了。
But everyone talked about the library tour the way this group of teenagers in Iron Mountain did.
但每个人都像铁山的这群青少年一样谈论图书馆之旅。
They're all standing outside the show, wearing black, heavy metal T-shirts.
他们都站在演出场外，穿着黑色重金属 T 恤。
So if you had to describe the way you thought of the library before this concert, what would you have said?
那么，如果您必须描述一下您在这场音乐会之前对图书馆的看法，您会怎么说？
What were the adjectives that would come to your mind if you thought about that?
如果你想到这个，你的脑海中会浮现出哪些形容词？
Yeah.
是的。
Boy It's better than it was before, anyways.
男孩，无论如何，比以前好多了。
I liked it.
我喜欢它。
Yeah, because before it was just old ladies.
是的，因为以前只有老太太。
Now it's young people.
现在是年轻人了。
It was a lot of fun.
这很有趣。
Alex Blumberg And then there was this 11-year-old in Menominee, who had planned on going fishing, but decided to check out the rock show instead.
Alex Blumberg 然后，梅诺米尼有一位 11 岁的孩子，他原本计划去钓鱼，但决定改为观看摇滚表演。
Did it make you think differently about the library?
这是否让您对图书馆有了不同的看法？
Yes, it did.
是的，确实如此。
It made me think about, hey, if librarians could do this, make a library not very much a library with making it loud, basically, anyone could do anything.
这让我想到，嘿，如果图书馆员可以做到这一点，让图书馆不再是一个大声喧哗的图书馆，基本上，任何人都可以做任何事情。
The High Strung are enjoying the library tour as well.
高度紧张的人也很享受图书馆之旅。
Librarians, as a group, tend to be better at organizing and promoting rock shows than actual rock promoters, as well as much more likely to address you as honey.
图书馆员作为一个群体，往往比真正的摇滚推广者更擅长组织和推广摇滚表演，而且更有可能称呼你为“亲爱的”。
Also, it's the first tour they've been on where they don't have to drive to another state after the concert is over.
此外，这是他们第一次在音乐会结束后不必开车前往另一个州的巡演。
They've all been spending a lot of time with their girlfriends.
他们都花了很多时间和女朋友在一起。
And, even though they're playing a library show almost every day, because they're mostly during the day and because they're mostly within driving distance of Detroit, it's been a very relaxed summer and, by their standards, lucrative.
而且，尽管他们几乎每天都在进行图书馆表演，因为他们大部分时间都在白天，而且因为他们大多在底特律的车程范围内，所以这是一个非常轻松的夏天，而且按照他们的标准，利润丰厚。
How much are you guys getting paid for this?
你们为此得到多少钱？
Oh, that's none of your damned business.
哦，那不关你的事。
On the high end of average.
处于平均水平的高端。
Josh Malerman High end of average for what we usually make at our shows.
乔什·马勒曼 (Josh Malerman) 与我们通常在演出中获得的收入相比，处于较高水平。
Yeah.
是的。
Josh Malerman And we won't have to wait at the end of the night for some promoter to sell a bunch of cocaine down the street to have enough money to pay for our guarantee.
乔什·马勒曼（Josh Malerman）：我们不必等到深夜某个促销员在街上出售一堆可卡因，才有足够的钱来支付我们的保证。
You know?
你知道？
Overall, the band is surprised how similar the library tour has been to a regular tour, except for one thing.
总的来说，乐队感到惊讶的是，除了一件事之外，图书馆巡演与常规巡演如此相似。
On a regular tour, they don't stick around for a Q&A 20 minutes after every show.
在常规巡演中，他们不会在每场演出结束后 20 分钟留下来进行问答。
Some people in this room would like to know if you have a girlfriend, and how old you are.
这个房间里的一些人想知道你是否有女朋友，以及你多大了。
How did your families take it when you decided to start a rock band?
当你决定组建一支摇滚乐队时，你的家人有何反应？
Do you guys live together?
你们住在一起吗？
Girl Did you guys read and go to libraries when you were teens?
女孩，你们十几岁的时候读书、去图书馆吗？
Why isn't the drummer wearing any shoe laces?
为什么鼓手不系鞋带？
I didn't think of this before we started this whole thing, but I really think that, a lot of kids, this is their first rock show, and I did not think of that angle at all when this whole thing started.
在我们开始这整件事之前我没有想到这一点，但我真的认为，很多孩子，这是他们的第一次摇滚表演，当这整件事开始时我根本没有想到这个角度。
Like, wow, we really are-- I really remember the first time I saw a bunch of grown men dancing around, making noise together, and people watching.
就像，哇，我们真的是——我真的记得我第一次看到一群成年男人跳舞，一起吵闹，人们在观看。
It's like that's an experience.
就好像这是一种经历。
So yeah.
所以是的。
And surprised I just never thought of that.
令我惊讶的是我从来没有想到这一点。
And now, I can't really explain it.
现在，我无法真正解释它。
The delivery of it all just has a different meaning to me now.
现在这一切的交付对我来说有着不同的意义。
It's more weighted or something.
它的重量更大什么的。
Like, oh, wow, this move here, or when I turn to Derek and both of us just do the silliest thing like slam our instruments at the same time, that's going to be an image in that child's mind.
就像，哦，哇，这里的这个动作，或者当我转向德里克，我们俩都做了最愚蠢的事情，比如同时敲击我们的乐器，这将成为那个孩子脑海中的一个形象。
They're going to remember that when they remember their first concert, or whatever.
当他们记得他们的第一场音乐会或其他什么时，他们会记住这一点。
So suddenly, things are not weighted with pressure, but weighted with a little more meaning.
突然间，事情不再充满压力，而是多了一点意义。
[MUSIC - "CLOWN CAR" BY THE HIGH STRUNG]
[音乐 - 紧张的“小丑车”]
The last show I attend is in Menominee, a small town in the far north of the state.
我参加的最后一场演出是在梅诺米尼，该州最北部的一个小镇。
The band is playing in the library central reading room.
乐队正在图书馆中央阅览室演奏。
You couldn't make it up any better.
你无法弥补这一点。
It's a beautiful place with big picture windows looking out on the water and a skylight, rows of bookshelves spread out to either side.
这是一个美丽的地方，有大落地窗，可以看到外面的水面，还有天窗，一排排书架分布在两侧。
The crowd is the biggest age range I've seen.
人群是我见过的年龄范围最大的。
There's a couple of high school kids with the neo-ska punk look, several middle-schoolers.
有几个有着新斯卡朋克风格的高中生，还有几个中学生。
In the very front row, a kid who can't be more than four years old holding a huge deck of Pokemon cards in one hand and a stuffed bunny in the other.
最前排，一个不到四岁的孩子，一手拿着一大堆神奇宝贝卡牌，另一只手拿着一只毛绒兔子。
He's covering his ears with his elbows, but he's bouncing wildly up and down on his chair, and he's got a huge smile on his face.
他用肘部捂住耳朵，但他在椅子上疯狂地上下弹跳，脸上挂着灿烂的笑容。
A lot of the kids in the audience have a look like that, like I can't explain what I'm watching, but I really like it.
观众中的很多孩子都有这样的表情，就像我无法解释我在看什么一样，但我真的很喜欢它。
When I talk to them about it later, it's hard for them to articulate.
当我后来和他们谈论这件事时，他们很难说清楚。
"I like the way it made me feel," they say.
“我喜欢它给我的感觉，”他们说。
Or "I like the way one of them will be going one way and one another." Or simply, "I like the way it vibrated on me.
或者“我喜欢他们中的一个人以一种方式去往另一种方式”。或者简单地说，“我喜欢它在我身上振动的方式。
That was the funnest part."
那是最有趣的部分。”
Of course, if you're selling teens on the library by saying now it's a place that rocks, then you pretty much have to keep booking rock shows.
当然，如果你通过说图书馆现在是一个摇滚的地方来向青少年推销，那么你几乎必须继续预订摇滚表演。
And Bill Harmer would be fine with that.
比尔·哈默对此表示同意。
He'd love it if rock and roll were as common in Michigan's libraries as story corner.
如果摇滚乐在密歇根的图书馆里像故事角一样普遍，他会很高兴。
His colleagues may take some convincing, though.
不过，他的同事可能需要一些说服力。
During the show in Menominee, I went downstairs to the check-out desk.
在梅诺米尼的演出期间，我下楼到了结账台。
All the librarians had their hands over their ears, or shouting at each other to be heard.
所有的图书管理员都用手捂住耳朵，或者互相喊叫以让对方听到。
I asked them how many of these concerts could they stand each year.
我问他们每年能举办多少场这样的音乐会。
One of the youth services librarians, a balding man with a mustache, didn't even try to talk over the noise.
一名青年服务图书管理员是一位留着小胡子的秃头男子，他甚至没有试图在噪音中说话。
He just held up his hand with his index finger to his thumb.
他只是举起手，用食指抵着拇指。
Zero, he mouthed.
零，他用嘴说道。
Alex Blumberg is one of the producers of our program.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格是我们节目的制作人之一。
The High Strung are on the internet at www.thehighstrung.com.
High Strung 的网站是 www.thehighstrung.com。
It's been a year since Alex did that story.
亚历克斯写那个故事已经一年了。
And this summer, The High Strung have expanded to a nationwide library tour: 60 libraries, 42 states.
今年夏天，The High Strung 已扩大到全国图书馆巡演：42 个州的 60 个图书馆。
[MUSIC - "SHUT UP IN THE LIBRARY" BY BARRY LOUIS POLISAR]
[音乐 - BARRY LOUIS POLISAR 的《在图书馆闭嘴》]
Coming up, Jonathan Goldstein and his own father.
接下来是乔纳森·戈德斯坦和他自己的父亲。
Quien es mas macho?
Quien es mas macho？
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Image Makers, stories of people and institutions who are worried what the world thinks of them, and who take action, decisive action.
今天的节目《形象制造者》讲述了一些人和机构的故事，他们担心世界对他们的看法，并采取行动，果断的行动。
In this half of the show, we have a son who wants to know what his father makes of him, and a father who needs a little image boost with his own son.
在节目的这一半中，我们有一个儿子想知道他的父亲对他的看法，还有一个父亲需要提升自己儿子的形象。
Let's move on to Act Two of our program.
让我们继续我们节目的第二幕。
Act Two, Goldstein On Goldstein.
第二幕，戈德斯坦论戈德斯坦。
This second story's a subject that perhaps we don't get enough of here on the public radio: manliness.
第二个故事的主题可能是我们在公共广播上听得不够多：男子气概。
I find that even the men I know who you think would be least concerned with manliness are still completely concerned with it.
我发现，即使是我认识的那些你认为最不关心男子气概的男人仍然完全关心它。
I have this friend, Michael, who is constantly talking about what is manly and what is not manly.
我有一个朋友，迈克尔，他经常谈论什么是男子气概，什么是不男子气概。
If you do something that he thinks is impressive, the way that he tells you that he thinks it's impressive is he says to you, very manly.
如果你做了一些他认为令人印象深刻的事情，他告诉你他认为这令人印象深刻的方式就是他对你说，非常有男子气概。
He says it all the time.
他一直这么说。
And he's gay.
而且他是同性恋。
He's a gay.
他是个同性恋。
It's almost like being a gay has made him more obsessed with manliness than any of my straight friends.
就好像作为一个同性恋让他比我的任何异性恋朋友都更着迷于男子气概。
If you're a man, I think it just comes with the territory.
如果你是一个男人，我认为这只是与领土有关。
Jonathan Goldstein's been thinking about his own manliness lately.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦最近一直在思考自己的男子气概。
He has this story.
他有这样的故事。
I've always assumed that my father, Buzz Goldstein, has never seen me as an especially manly guy.
我一直认为我的父亲巴兹·戈德斯坦从来没有将我视为一个特别有男子气概的人。
As a kid, I did not play sports.
小时候，我不参加体育运动。
I had no interest in tools, and I did not dream of muscle cars.
我对工具不感兴趣，我也不梦想肌肉车。
My father, though, was an old-school manly man.
不过，我的父亲是一位老派的男子气概。
Growing up, I watched him charm his way out of traffic tickets, whistle for cabs, and say things like va-va-voom, all things I cannot now help but think of as being a part of a manliness from a bygone era.
在我的成长过程中，我看着他用魅力摆脱交通罚单，吹口哨叫出租车，说着诸如“va-va-voom”之类的话，所有这些我现在情不自禁地认为是过去时代男子气概的一部分。
When he poured whiskey, it was always into a washed-out mustard jar, and it was always at least three or four ounces in a shot.
当他倒威士忌时，总是把它倒进一个洗过的芥末罐里，而且每次至少倒三四盎司。
Or the way he had of saying, "Listen pal" in his undershirt and flip-flops, his very extended finger, as rigid as a pool cue, aimed straight at your face, never failed to let you know, in no uncertain terms, who was the alpha-est male in the room.
或者他穿着汗衫和人字拖说“听着，朋友”的方式，他伸出的手指像台球杆一样僵硬，笔直地瞄准你的脸，毫不含糊地让你知道谁是房间里最优秀的男性。
Even the random things my father did seemed drenched in a kind of casual, hairy-knuckled machismo.
就连我父亲做的一些随意的事情也显得充满了一种随意的、毛茸茸的大男子主义。
Like, the fact that he liked grape soda made that soda seem infinitely more barrel-chested than a gutless glass of strawberry pop or a [?
就像，他喜欢葡萄汽水这一事实使得汽水看起来比一杯无胆的草莓汽水或[？
fay ?] can of nectar.
fay？] 罐头花蜜。
Another thing that I consider manly about my father is that he is a loud man.
我认为父亲很有男子气概的另一件事是他是一个大声的人。
He is genetically incapable of whispering.
他天生就没有窃窃私语的能力。
When we go to movies, he will turn to me right in the middle and say, just like we were sitting alone, "Isn't that the guy who played the father on The Rockford Files?"
当我们去看电影时，他会在中间转向我，就像我们单独坐着一样，说：“这不是在《罗克福德档案》中扮演父亲的那个人吗？”
My dad is now 70, and he still keeps curling weights beside his bed.
我爸爸现在已经70岁了，他仍然在床边放着冰壶。
I am 35, and my own brand of manliness, a gentler, less in your face and, dare I say, woosier form of manliness, is something I've always attributed to a generational difference between my father and me.
我今年 35 岁了，我自己的男子气概是一种更温和、更温和的男子气概，我敢说，是一种更热情的男子气概，我一直将其归因于我和父亲之间的代际差异。
My father grew up in the Bronx in the '40s, a time and place where threatening out your window to strangle someone's barking dog was merely a friendly morning hello.
我的父亲在 40 年代的布朗克斯长大，在那个时代和地点，威胁窗外要掐死某人狂吠的狗只是一种友好的早晨问候。
I wanted to talk with my father about the things that he holds to be manly, and maybe in so doing, figure out what it was that I lacked back then, and still lack to this day.
我想和我的父亲谈谈他认为有男子气概的事情，也许这样做可以弄清楚我当时缺少什么，直到今天仍然缺少什么。
Do you think there's certain things that a man should know how to do, like how to handle himself?
你认为男人应该知道如何做某些事情，比如如何处理自己？
Should he know how to box a little bit?
他应该懂得一点拳击吗？
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
A man should know how to defend himself.
一个男人应该懂得如何保护自己。
In other words, a man should not have to take any guff from anybody.
换句话说，一个人不应该听任何人的废话。
And my father doesn't.
而我父亲则不然。
Whereas, above my head, there is a sign that reads, please deposit guff.
然而，在我头顶上方，有一个牌子，上面写着：请收下废话。
When I was eight, my father decided to teach me how to box.
当我八岁的时候，我的父亲决定教我如何拳击。
We stood in the foyer of our apartment, knuckle to knuckle, the transgressiveness of it making me giddy and, as my mother would say, overheated.
我们站在公寓的门厅里，指节对指节，这种越轨行为让我头晕目眩，正如我母亲所说，让我感到过热。
To my eight-year-old brain, the idea of play-fighting with my father ranked somewhere between eating a sidewalk-length roll of candy buttons and watching the Globetrotters on the Wide World of Sports.
对于我八岁的孩子来说，和父亲打架的想法介于吃一卷人行道上的糖果纽扣和在广阔的体育世界中观看篮球运动员之间。
My father stood beneath the chandelier, dodging, weaving, and jabbing, like a young Willie Pep.
我父亲站在枝形吊灯下，躲闪、迂回、刺刺，就像年轻的威利·佩普一样。
I thought this was great.
我觉得这太棒了。
With my arms doing a kind of Dutch windmill, I leapt into the fray, and almost immediately, my mouth connected with one of his fists.
我的手臂就像荷兰风车一样，跳进了战斗中，几乎立刻，我的嘴就碰到了他的一个拳头。
My lip split and began to leak blood all over the powder blue, shag carpeting.
我的嘴唇裂开，鲜血开始流到粉蓝色的粗毛地毯上。
I started to cry.
我开始哭了。
Then I have this memory of my mother on my father's back, pulling at his hair in a crazed attempt to keep him from mauling me.
然后我就想起了我母亲趴在父亲背上，疯狂地拉着他的头发，试图阻止他伤害我。
I cried even harder.
我哭得更厉害了。
I was crying because I had never been hit in the face before, and the pain was so completely new and alien to me.
我哭了，因为我以前从未被打过脸，这种疼痛对我来说是全新而陌生的。
But I was also crying because I felt so bad for my father.
但我也哭了，因为我为父亲感到难过。
Here he was, just trying out his brand of father and son kibitzing with his kid, and now he had to deal with my blood on his hands.
他在这里，只是尝试他的父子与他的孩子嬉戏的方式，现在他必须处理他手上的我的血。
Even so, a few days later at a family get-together, with my father by my side, I couldn't stop myself from showing every single person I met my puffed-out lip.
即便如此，几天后，在一次家庭聚会上，父亲在我身边，我还是无法阻止自己向遇到的每一个人展示我的肿嘴唇。
Then, excitedly, I would tell them that it was my father who had given me this puffed-out lip.
然后，我会兴奋地告诉他们，是我的父亲给了我这个鼓起的嘴唇。
Our brawl in the foyer would be the last time my father and I would ever play-fight together.
我们在门厅里的争吵将是我和父亲最后一次一起打架。
Do you feel that smoking lends a man a certain kind of manliness?
你觉得吸烟会给男人带来某种男子气概吗？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Don't forget, we grew up with a certain stereotype when we were young.
别忘了，我们小时候是带着某种刻板印象长大的。
You might not remember this, but I remember one time we were on our way to, maybe it was a bar mitzvah.
你可能不记得了，但我记得有一次我们正在去的路上，也许那是一场成人礼。
We stopped at a gas station to get some gas, and you picked me up a pack of cigarettes.
我们在加油站停下来加油，你给我买了一包香烟。
And you said that it's important for a young man to smoke at a social gathering.
你说年轻人在社交聚会上吸烟很重要。
Really?
真的吗？
I did, eh?
我做到了，嗯？
Well, because, probably, at that time, that was my way of thinking.
嗯，因为，可能，在那个时候，这就是我的思维方式。
Why did I start smoking?
我为什么开始吸烟？
Not because I enjoyed smoking.
不是因为我喜欢吸烟。
The reason I smoked was because I was, first of all, I was never as tall as my friends.
我抽烟的原因是，首先，我从来没有我的朋友们那么高。
I was always shorter for my age, and it made me feel taller.
就我的年龄而言，我总是比较矮，这让我感觉自己更高了。
It made me feel as if I belonged, and it gave me something to do with my hands.
它让我感觉自己有归属感，也让我可以用双手来做一些事。
Wait.
等待。
Just go back for a second.
请回去一会儿。
How did smoking make you feel taller?
吸烟如何让你感觉更高？
Because all the people, at that time, all the people were smoking.
因为当时所有的人，所有的人都在抽烟。
My father smoked.
我父亲抽烟。
My brother was smoking.
我哥哥在抽烟。
How old were you when you started smoking?
您开始吸烟时几岁？
Wait.
等待。
If I was a taller man, would you have felt that smoking was as important?
如果我是个高个子，你会觉得吸烟同样重要吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Jonathan Goldstein But still, during my teen years, on the odd occasion when I did smoke, rather than taking my cues from Humphrey Bogart or Danny Zuko, gritting the butt between my teeth like I meant business and ashing often with forceful, deliberate taps, I chose to smoke like David Bowie circa 1972, allowing my cigarette to hang limply from my lips, pretending to be too whacked out on goof balls to care that my ash was six inches long.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦 (Jonathan Goldstein) 但是，在我十几岁的时候，在偶尔抽烟的时候，我并没有效仿亨弗莱·鲍嘉 (Humphrey Bogart) 或丹尼·祖科 (Danny Zuko)，用牙齿咬紧屁股，好像我是认真的，经常用力、刻意地轻拍烟灰，我选择像 1972 年左右的大卫·鲍伊 (David Bowie) 那样抽烟，让香烟软绵绵地挂在嘴边，假装自己太疲惫了，根本不在乎我的烟头。灰烬有六英寸长。
My obsession with David Bowie, a languidly, androgynous glam rocker, wasn't something that troubled my father so much as it simply wasn't anything he could understand.
我对大卫·鲍伊（David Bowie）这个慵懒、雌雄同体的华丽摇滚歌手的痴迷并没有让我父亲感到那么困扰，因为这根本不是他能理解的事情。
My father preferred singers like Joe Cocker, men who deliver their lyrics as though painfully screaming them from a locked toilet stall.
我父亲更喜欢乔·科克（Joe Cocker）这样的歌手，他们的歌词就像在锁着的厕所隔间里痛苦地尖叫一样。
In his day, liking someone like David Bowie would have been the domain of degenerate officers in black and white movies about Nazis.
在他那个时代，喜欢大卫·鲍伊这样的人是纳粹黑白电影中堕落军官的专利。
But to this day, whenever I'm over at my parents and Bowie's on Entertainment Tonight, my father will call me over and say, your pal's on TV.
但直到今天，每当我到父母家和鲍伊的《今夜娱乐》节目中时，我父亲都会打电话给我并说，你的朋友在电视上。
And we will both sit there in silence watching David Bowie, both of us wondering what the other one could possibly be thinking.
我们都会静静地坐在那里看着大卫·鲍伊，我们都想知道对方可能在想什么。
The thing is, my father is much more forthright when it comes to letting my friends know what he's thinking.
问题是，我父亲在让我的朋友知道他的想法时要直率得多。
With my friends, he is forthright on a great many subjects.
和我的朋友们在一起时，他在很多话题上都直言不讳。
If we're downtown, and we're hanging around with one of my friends like, say, Howard, you'll be more inclined to point out a good-looking woman, or something like that, in a way that you probably wouldn't do with me as much.
如果我们在市中心，和我的一个朋友一起闲逛，比如霍华德，你会更倾向于指出一位漂亮的女人，或者类似的东西，而你可能不会那么频繁地对我做。
Yeah.
是的。
I guess I'd feel more comfortable because you're my son.
我想我会感觉更舒服，因为你是我的儿子。
You know, these are things that you don't do with your son.
你知道，这些是你不会对你的儿子做的事情。
But I've pointed out good-looking women with you, Johnny.
但我已经和你一起指出了漂亮的女人，约翰尼。
I've walked with you.
我和你一起走过。
I mean, look, I've got eyes in my head.
我的意思是，看，我脑子里有眼睛。
My father did it with me.
我父亲和我一起做的。
He'd look at a woman and say, "Oh boy, va-va-voom!"
他会看着一个女人说：“哦，孩子，va-va-voom！”
There was one time I remember, where we were walking through, I think it was a parking lot.
我记得有一次，我们走过的地方，我想那是一个停车场。
And I was, maybe, about 18, 19.
我当时大概18、19岁左右。
And we were passing by this other young woman.
我们正经过另一位年轻女子。
And you turned to me.
然后你转向我。
And you noticed that that woman looked at me, and you said, "You see that woman over there?
你注意到那个女人看着我，你说：“你看到那边那个女人了吗？
I could tell that you could make her."
我看得出你可以成就她。”
Yeah.
是的。
Jonathan Goldstein And then you said, "You see, I could tell these things.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦然后你说：“你看，我可以说出这些事情。
You can't tell these kind of things because you're more into books."
你不能说出这些事情，因为你更喜欢书本。”
You were more preoccupied, yeah.
你更专注，是的。
You were more preoccupied.
你更专注。
These weren't the things that were of the greatest interest to you.
这些并不是您最感兴趣的事情。
And so you thought maybe I would miss something like that?
所以你认为也许我会错过这样的事情？
Yeah.
是的。
I guess I was more aware of these things.
我想我对这些事情更加了解。
You know, as a young man, I went out with a lot of women.
你知道，作为一个年轻人，我和很多女人约会过。
I had a lot of experience and I could instinctively tell these things.
我有很多经验，我可以本能地讲述这些事情。
And so how would you characterize that difference between me and you?
那么你如何形容我和你之间的差异呢？
I was a different type.
我是另一种类型。
I wanted to wear nice clothes, and go out with good-looking women, and drive a nice car.
我想穿漂亮的衣服，和漂亮的女人一起出去，开一辆好车。
And you were never interested in these sort of things.
而你从来对这类事情不感兴趣。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I've always taken my father saying that I was more into books or I was never into these kinds of things as being a polite way of saying that I just wasn't a regular guy.
我一直认为父亲说我更喜欢读书或者我从来不喜欢这类事情，这是一种礼貌的说法，表明我只是一个不普通的人。
And I have to say, I've never felt hurt by that, nor have I taken it personally.
我不得不说，我从未因此感到受伤，也没有将其视为针对我个人的。
From a young age, I've always believed that defying familial expectations is an important part of self-actualization.
从很小的时候起，我就一直相信，挑战家庭的期望是自我实现的重要组成部分。
I learned that in books.
我在书本上学到了这一点。
Whining is unmanly, complaining and bitching a lot.
发牢骚是没有男子气概的表现，经常抱怨和抱怨。
So do you think there's a certain kind of stoicism, that that's necessary?
那么你认为某种斯多葛主义是必要的吗？
I don't think.
我不认为。
It can't be forced.
这是不能强迫的。
It's either you have it or you don't.
要么你有，要么你没有。
When you think of me, do you think of me as possessing a certain quiet manliness?
当你想到我时，你是否认为我具有某种安静的男子气概？
Yes.
是的。
Jonathan Goldstein No, I want you to be honest.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦 不，我希望你说实话。
I'm being honest, Johnny, because I feel that you have done a lot of things that I wish I had done when I was younger.
我说实话，约翰尼，因为我觉得你做了很多我希望我年轻时做的事情。
You were more assertive with things that you didn't-- you see, I went along with things a lot, whereas you didn't.
你对那些你不同意的事情更加自信——你看，我经常同意一些事情，而你则不然。
You see?
你看？
Let me give you an example of what I mean.
让我举个例子来说明我的意思。
You know my mother was a very domineering woman, even after I married.
你知道我妈妈是一个非常霸道的女人，即使在我结婚之后也是如此。
I just accepted the decisions made by them, and that was unmanly, yes.
我只是接受了他们做出的决定，这很没有男子气概，是的。
My father's mother had talked my father into quitting high school so he could get a job and help support the family.
我父亲的母亲说服我父亲从高中退学，这样他就可以找到一份工作并帮助养家糊口。
It was a move he always regretted.
这是他一直后悔的举动。
I remember my father's mother as a small woman with a knack for getting my father to do whatever she wanted.
我记得我父亲的母亲是个小女人，她有本事让我父亲做她想做的事。
Like, if she needed a lift to the hairdresser in the middle of the day, he would drop everything at once and go.
就像，如果她在中午需要搭车去理发店，他会立即放下手中的一切然后走。
The phone would ring.
电话铃声响起。
He would listen in silence, and he would go.
他会默默地听着，然后就走。
Even once my father was married, his mother would still interfere in all sorts of small day-to-day things.
即使父亲结婚了，他的母亲仍然会干涉各种日常小事。
For example, we were shopping one day on Kings Highway, your mother and I, and we saw a cute fireplace.
例如，有一天，我们在国王高速公路上购物，你的母亲和我看到了一个可爱的壁炉。
It wasn't a real fireplace, it was an electric fireplace.
这不是真正的壁炉，而是电壁炉。
And we fell in love with it.
我们爱上了它。
It was black metal, and we were ready to buy it.
它是黑色金属，我们准备购买它。
And I happened to bring up the topic to my mother and she just pooh-poohed, and just discouraged us, and discouraged me.
我碰巧向我母亲提起了这个话题，她只是嗤之以鼻，只是让我们泄气，也让我泄气。
And then I changed my mind as a result of that.
然后我因此改变了主意。
It was impractical.
这是不切实际的。
And what do you need this for?
你需要这个做什么？
And what are you wasting your money on garbage like that?
你为什么要把钱浪费在这样的垃圾上呢？
And I'll be honest with you, that was unmanly.
老实说，那是没有男子气概的。
OK, if you want to talk about being unmanly, that was unmanly.
好吧，如果你要说没有男子气概，那就是没有男子气概。
I should have taken a strong position in saying, look, this is between me and my wife.
我应该采取强硬立场说，看，这是我和我妻子之间的事情。
We enjoy this.
我们很享受这个。
It's going to give us happiness, and it's none of your business.
它会给我们带来幸福，这不关你的事。
You know?
你知道？
I respect you.
我尊重你。
I could have said I love you, but you've got to keep your nose out of my business and what goes on between me and my wife.
我本可以说我爱你，但你必须别插手我的事以及我和我妻子之间发生的事情。
These are things that I never did.
这些都是我从来没有做过的事情。
And, if I were like you, my mother would have never gotten away with the things that she did.
而且，如果我像你一样，我母亲就永远不会做她所做的事情。
I really didn't expect this.
我真的没想到这一点。
Of course, I've never doubted that my father liked me, but I always felt that it was in spite of what I wasn't and not because of what I was.
当然，我从来没有怀疑过我的父亲喜欢我，但我总觉得那是因为我不是什么，而不是因为我是什么。
And what I was was a man who was willing to ignore his own mother.
而我是一个愿意忽视自己母亲的人。
By the time my father was my age now, he had already served in the Army overseas.
当我父亲到了我这个年纪的时候，他已经在海外陆军服役了。
He had already entered himself in Golden Glove boxing matches, had two kids, and was working two jobs.
他已经参加了金手套拳击比赛，有两个孩子，并且打着两份工作。
And me?
而我呢？
When my mother tells me not to put my feet up on the coffee table, I continue to put my feet up on the coffee table.
当妈妈告诉我不要把脚放在咖啡桌上时，我继续把脚放在咖啡桌上。
This is what my father is impressed by.
这是我父亲印象深刻的地方。
This is what makes me a man.
这就是我成为男人的原因。
I don't want to say this disappoints me, but sometimes I can't help wanting to be manly in exactly the way that he's manly.
我不想说这让我失望，但有时我情不自禁地想要像他一样有男子气概。
When I was a child, my father had chronic back pain, and I was very proud of how loud he could yell in agony.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我的父亲患有慢性背痛，我为他能在痛苦中大声喊叫而感到非常自豪。
So great was his pain and his rage about his pain, that, one night, he actually yanked the bed board off the bed.
他的痛苦如此之大，而且他对痛苦的愤怒如此之大，以至于有一天晚上，他实际上把床板从床上拉了下来。
After it happened, I would brag to my friends about how strong my father was.
事情发生后，我会向朋友们吹嘘我的父亲有多坚强。
From then on, whenever I pulled off some unexpected physical tour de force, like opening a stuck jar of Nutella, my face as red and squinty as a clenched fist, my friends would say that I was pulling out the Goldstein bed board.
从那时起，每当我完成一些意想不到的身体壮举，比如打开一罐卡住的花生酱时，我的脸红得眯着，就像握紧的拳头一样，我的朋友们都会说我正在拉出戈德斯坦的床板。
That's the kind of manly I want to be.
这就是我想成为的男人。
That's when I feel at one with my legacy.
那是我与我的遗产融为一体的时候。
Jonathan Goldstein is the host of the radio show, Wire Tap, on the CBC, and the author of the novel, Lenny Bruce is Dead.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦 (Jonathan Goldstein) 是 CBC 广播节目 Wire Tap 的主持人，也是小说《莱尼·布鲁斯已死》(Lenny Bruce is Dead) 的作者。
All right.
好的。
Talk at the volume you're going to be speaking in.
以您要讲话的音量说话。
This is the volume that I'm going to be speaking in.
这就是我要演讲的音量。
Why don't we start off by giving me a real listen pal.
为什么我们不先给我一个真正倾听的朋友呢？
Listen pal, when I speak, I like people to listen to me and pay attention to what I'm saying.
听着，朋友，当我说话时，我喜欢人们听我说话并注意我在说什么。
Do you understand what I'm saying?
你明白我在说什么吗？
Do you hear me?
你听到我说话了吗？
Give me a listen pal along with imagining that someone just cut in front of you in line.
给我一个倾听的朋友，同时想象有人插在你前面排队。
Listen, pal.
听着，朋友。
Do you know there's a line?
你知道有一条线吗？
We've all been waiting here for quite a while.
我们都在这里等了好久了。
There's a line that goes in the back.
后面有一条线。
You don't start here in the middle or go to the front, you go to the back.
你不是从中间开始，也不是走到前面，而是走到后面。
All right.
好的。
Now you have to get a little bit more aggressive because he's not listening to you.
现在你必须变得更有攻击性，因为他不听你的。
Hey!
嘿！
What are you, dense?
你是什么，浓密？
Don't you hear what I'm saying to you?
你没听到我对你说的话吗？
You don't listen?
你不听吗？
Don't ignore me.
别无视我。
Don't ignore me because I'm not going to let you go in front of me.
不要忽视我，因为我不会让你在我面前走。
Don't ignore me.
别无视我。
That only infuriates me.
那只会激怒我。
And that's the last thing he wants to do.
这是他最不想做的事。
That's right.
这是正确的。
[MUSIC - "I'M WAITING FOR THE MAN" BY DAVID BOWIE]
[音乐 - 大卫·鲍伊的《我在等待那个男人》]
Act Three, Heart Shaped Box.
第三幕，心形盒子。
Seven years ago, Doug Hill was diagnosed with a rare brain disease called frontal lobe dementia.
七年前，道格·希尔被诊断出患有一种罕见的脑部疾病，称为额叶痴呆。
On our show a while back, we had a story about Doug's son, Nick, who was very young at the time and struggling to understand the disease.
在不久前的节目中，我们讲了一个关于道格的儿子尼克的故事，他当时还很小，很难理解这种疾病。
His disease slowly shrinks your brain.
他的病会慢慢地让你的大脑萎缩。
Your personality goes, your logic, your emotions.
你的个性、你的逻辑、你的情感都会消失。
It's pretty brutal, and it's fatal.
这是非常残酷的，而且是致命的。
About a year ago, Doug got much worse and his family started preparing for the end.
大约一年前，道格的病情变得更糟，他的家人开始为生命的终结做准备。
And, as you might understand, it's been a long, slow, complicated goodbye over the years that he has deteriorated.
而且，正如你可能理解的那样，多年来他的病情恶化了，这是一次漫长、缓慢、复杂的告别。
The therapist said that, for Nick to find closure, for Nick, especially to understand his feelings when his dad finally died, what he was going to need is a picture in his head of who his dad really was back when he was well.
治疗师说，为了让尼克找到结局，特别是为了理解他父亲最终去世时他的感受，他需要的是在他的脑海中描绘出他康复时父亲真正回来的样子。
Doug needed to be real if Nick was going to be able to let him go.
如果尼克想让道格放他走，他就必须表现得真实。
And the job of producing this important biography of this person who Nick, kind of, didn't exactly really know anymore, fell to Nick's mom, Julie.
为这个尼克已经不太了解的人制作这本重要传记的工作就落在了尼克的妈妈朱莉身上。
My son is 10 years old.
我儿子今年10岁了。
He's tall, and thin, and blonde, and freckled, and smart, and funny, and generous.
他又高又瘦，金发碧眼，长着雀斑，聪明，风趣，大方。
In other words, Nick is his father all over again.
换句话说，尼克又成了他的父亲。
Yet, Nick knows so little about his dad.
然而，尼克对他的父亲知之甚少。
He's too young to remember what Doug was like before he got sick.
他还太小，不记得道格生病之前是什么样子。
His father was far more than the early symptoms of the disease, like Doug constantly repeating himself, or compulsively eating every sweet in sight, or irrationally walking in front of moving traffic.
他父亲的症状远不止这种疾病的早期症状，比如道格不断重复自己的话，或者强迫性地吃掉眼前的每一个糖果，或者不合理地走在移动的交通前面。
So giving this complete picture of Doug, this hugely important job, falls to me.
因此，描绘道格的完整面貌，这项极其重要的工作就落到了我的肩上。
I'm 43 years old and both my parents are alive.
我今年 43 岁，父母都健在。
That makes me supremely unqualified, not to mention overwhelmed.
这让我极度不合格，更不用说不知所措了。
I married Doug 20 years ago.
20 年前我和道格结婚了。
Where do I even start?
我该从哪里开始呢？
Apparently, with objects.
显然，有物体。
My friend Adrian lost both her parents by the time she was 19.
我的朋友阿德里安 (Adrian) 19 岁时就失去了双亲。
She's told me she still yearns for stuff that her parents touched or carried around, that somehow they connect her to them.
她告诉我，她仍然渴望父母触摸过或随身携带的东西，这些东西以某种方式将她与他们联系起来。
So when Doug got sick, Adrian told me to collect simple, everyday items, and that, one day, they'd mean the world to Nick.
因此，当道格生病时，阿德里安告诉我要收集简单的日常物品，有一天，它们对尼克来说意味着整个世界。
So early on, Doug's things started making their way into a box, a casket of memories.
很早就，道格的东西开始装进一个盒子，一盒记忆。
The box is about the size of a child's shoe box, and it's made of tin.
这个盒子大约有儿童鞋盒大小，由锡制成。
The remnants of all the colors it once was, red, and green, and yellow, poke through its rusty patina.
它曾经的所有颜色的残余物，红色、绿色和黄色，从它生锈的铜绿中露出来。
Long ago, it sat in Doug's grandmother's home in the WASP-y end of Indianapolis, and Doug loved it then as much as Nick does now.
很久以前，它坐落在道格祖母位于印第安纳波利斯的 WASP 区的家里，道格当时和尼克现在一样喜欢它。
Now the box sits on top of a Barrister bookcase in our hallway.
现在这个盒子放在我们走廊上的律师书柜顶上。
It's deliberately up high so that Nick has to ask a grown-up to get it down.
它故意放得很高，这样尼克就得请大人把它拿下来。
Staying slightly out of reach keeps it precious.
保持在稍微遥不可及的地方，让它变得珍贵。
Plus, this way, the story that the box contains has a ready narrator.
另外，这样，盒子里的故事就有了一个现成的叙述者。
There's no master plan for what's been collected: eyeglasses, a press pass, a passport, pictures.
对于所收集的物品没有总体规划：眼镜、记者通行证、护照、照片。
Often I've wondered, how could these things be so important?
我常常想，这些事情怎么会如此重要？
For the first six years after Doug got sick, Nick didn't want to look inside the box.
在道格生病后的头六年里，尼克不想看盒子里面的东西。
It scared him.
这让他害怕。
But as his daddy got sicker, on Saturday afternoons I started bringing the box down, combing through the stuff myself.
但随着他爸爸病情加重，周六下午我开始把盒子拿下来，亲自梳理里面的东西。
Slowly, Nick would tread to my side.
慢慢地，尼克走到我身边。
And now he calls the box his treasure.
现在他把这个盒子称为他的宝贝。
But each time Nick and I go through the box, the discussion is different and surprising, never quite going the way I think it will.
但每次尼克和我浏览这个盒子时，讨论都是不同的、令人惊讶的，从来没有完全按照我想象的方式进行。
One of the smaller items in the box is a laminated work ID with CNN's logo.
盒子中较小的物品之一是带有 CNN 徽标的层压工作 ID。
It has Doug's name and the title Video Journalist on it, plus an amazingly handsome picture of him at 22 years old.
上面有道格的名字和视频记者的头衔，还有一张他 22 岁时的帅气照片。
When Nick pulled it out, it seemed like a great opportunity to make Doug human.
当尼克把它拔出来时，这似乎是一个让道格成为人的绝佳机会。
I told Nick how his dad was a studio cameraman there, and how, one night, the handle on the camera's wheeled pedestal hooked onto Doug's belt loop as he walked away.
我告诉尼克，他的父亲是那里的一名摄影棚摄影师，有一天晚上，当他走开时，相机轮式底座上的手柄如何挂在道格的皮带环上。
Doug's camera was live, so the anchorman and the whole newsdesk had to list to keep up with Doug's rolling shot.
道格的摄像机正在直播，因此主持人和整个新闻台必须倾斜以跟上道格的滚动镜头。
Nick laughed a little, but he steered the conversation in a totally different direction.
尼克笑了笑，但他把谈话引向了完全不同的方向。
"Did daddy ever work for Fox News?" "No, never." "Oh, thank God.
“爸爸曾经在福克斯新闻台工作过吗？” “不，从来没有。” “噢，感谢上帝。
Daddy was a Democrat." And while I thought Nick might want to know his dad was capable of making a goofy mistake, what Nick took away from the work ID was that his daddy leaned left.
爸爸是民主党人。”虽然我认为尼克可能想知道他的父亲是否有能力犯下愚蠢的错误，但尼克从工作证件中得到的信息是他的父亲向左倾斜。
Nick loves looking at the pictures, pictures of Doug, especially when he was a kid, when he was 10 in Florida, and when he was 12, sitting at a birthday party with his namesake grandfather.
尼克喜欢看道格的照片，尤其是他小时候的照片，10 岁在佛罗里达州的时候，12 岁的时候和他的同名祖父一起参加生日聚会的时候。
And even more precious are the pictures of Nick and Doug together.
更珍贵的是尼克和道格在一起的照片。
There's one of Doug holding our very surprised 18-month-old boy upside down.
其中一张照片是道格将我们 18 个月大的男孩倒过来抱住，他感到非常惊讶。
And one shows Nick as a toddler sitting on his dad's lap as they steer a boat.
其中一张照片显示，尼克还是个蹒跚学步的孩子，坐在父亲的腿上，他们驾驶着一艘船。
Yet another shows them sleeping next to each other with Nick curled against his dad.
另一张照片显示，他们睡在一起，尼克蜷缩在他父亲的身边。
The questions come again.
问题又来了。
"When did that happen?" I try to remember as many details as I can.
“那是什么时候发生的？”我尽力记住尽可能多的细节。
"We were playing hide-and-seek in the living room when Daddy started swinging you around." "We drove a golf cart to the marina in Florida the day we went out on Uncle Larry's boat.
“我们正在客厅玩捉迷藏，爸爸开始把你摇来摇去。” “我们乘坐拉里叔叔的船出去的那天，我们开着高尔夫球车去了佛罗里达州的码头。
And when you napped together, we were at a beach house near Charleston."
当你们一起小睡时，我们正在查尔斯顿附近的一栋海滨别墅里。”
At the bottom of the box hides Doug's wedding ring.
盒子底部藏着道格的结婚戒指。
It came off years ago when his hand swelled and the ring cut off circulation.
几年前，当他的手肿胀并且戒指切断了血液循环时，它就脱落了。
Nick loves to touch it, sliding this metal hula hoop around his number two-pencil fingers.
尼克喜欢触摸它，将这个金属呼啦圈套在他的第二根铅笔手指上。
But some of the objects in the box aren't as popular as others.
但盒子里的一些物品并不像其他物品那么受欢迎。
Nick has never put on Doug's eyeglasses.
尼克从未戴过道格的眼镜。
Cuff links and tuxedo studs sit untouched along with the antique pocket watch I bought Doug for our 10th wedding anniversary.
袖扣和燕尾服饰钉与我为道格结婚十周年纪念日买的古董怀表一起完好无损。
But time and again, it's clear that my friend Adrian was right: sometimes throw-away items have the most meaning.
但一次又一次，我的朋友阿德里安显然是对的：有时丢弃的物品最有意义。
A few months ago, Nick wanted new toys.
几个月前，尼克想要新玩具。
The policy in our house is he buys toys for himself with his own allowance money.
我们家的政策是他用自己的零花钱给自己买玩具。
He'd been eyeing some Dungeons & Dragons figures and was short by $10.
他一直在关注一些龙与地下城的人物，但缺了 10 美元。
He was greatly disappointed, not wanting to wait a few more paydays.
他非常失望，不想再等几个发薪日。
Then I almost saw the light bulb flash over Nick's head.
然后我几乎看到灯泡在尼克的头上闪过。
"I know.
“我知道。
I could use the money from Daddy's change jar."
我可以用爸爸零钱罐里的钱。”
When Doug was well, each night he'd come home from work, drop his wallet on the table, and dump his change into a blue ceramic jar.
当道格康复时，每天晚上他都会下班回家，将钱包放在桌子上，然后将零钱倒入一个蓝色陶瓷罐中。
Sometime after Doug moved to the nursing home four years ago, the change jar found a new job: it holds up a family portrait that had lost its easel.
四年前，道格搬到疗养院后的某个时候，零钱罐找到了新工作：它举着一张失去了画架的全家福。
This jar has hid on my mantle in plain sight for years, forgotten, at least by me.
这个罐子多年来一直藏在我的地幔上，在众目睽睽之下，被遗忘了，至少被我遗忘了。
I pulled it down.
我把它拉下来。
For more than an hour, our hands got dirty counting the change that once sat in Doug's pockets.
在一个多小时的时间里，我们的双手都脏兮兮地数着道格口袋里的零钱。
We separated the pennies from the dimes and the quarters from the nickles.
我们将便士与 10 角硬币、25 角硬币与 5 角硬币分开。
And we found things like a New York City subway token, and Canadian pennies, and a receipt for a haircut from 1998.
我们还发现了诸如纽约地铁代币、加拿大便士以及 1998 年理发收据之类的东西。
The entire time we talked about his dad, the man I made this beautiful boy with.
我们一直在谈论他的父亲，我和他一起创造了这个漂亮的男孩。
We counted up more than $50, a fortune to a fourth grader.
我们数了数，有 50 多美元，这对一个四年级学生来说是一笔财富。
Nick was amazed.
尼克很惊讶。
"What would Daddy want me to do with all this money?" "Well, he'd probably want you to save some, then spend some on fun, like those toys you really want." Nick was thrilled, aching for his new toys.
“爸爸要我用这些钱做什么呢？” “嗯，他可能希望你存一些，然后花一些去玩，比如那些你真正想要的玩具。”尼克很兴奋，渴望他的新玩具。
On Saturday, we made the trip to the bank and then bought his heart's desire.
星期六，我们去了银行，然后买了他心仪的东西。
Back home, Nick ripped open the boxes, joyous for the score, but 10 minutes later he came to me with regretful eyes.
回到家，尼克撕开盒子，为得分而高兴，但十分钟后，他带着遗憾的目光来到我身边。
"What's wrong, Nick?" He sighed, and swallowed hard, and began to cry.
“怎么了，尼克？”他叹了口气，艰难地咽了口口水，然后开始哭泣。
"Daddy's money isn't in the house any more." Pennies, dimes, and nickels, stuff he'd barely bend over to pick up.
“爸爸的钱已经不在家里了。”便士、一毛钱、五分镍币，这些他几乎弯腰捡起来的东西。
He felt he'd betrayed his father treating those coins merely as currency.
他觉得自己背叛了父亲，仅仅将这些硬币当作货币。
I held him.
我抱着他。
I tried explaining that these toys, the money in the bank, these were like gifts from his father.
我试图解释这些玩具，银行里的钱，这些就像他父亲的礼物。
But it didn't help.
但这没有帮助。
"Those coins were Daddy's, and they'll never be here again."
“那些硬币是爸爸的，它们再也不会出现在这里了。”
We've lost so much of Doug already.
我们已经失去了很多道格。
Long ago, we let go of his humor, his writings, his displays of love and kindness.
很久以前，我们就放弃了他的幽默、他的作品、他所表现的爱和善良。
Inch by inch, we've buried him, with each day bringing yet another tiny, unbearable loss.
我们一寸一寸地埋葬了他，每一天都会带来另一个微小的、难以忍受的损失。
So losing these little things, even just pennies, it's the last straw.
所以失去这些小东西，哪怕只是几分钱，都是最后一根稻草。
It's why the box is so important.
这就是为什么盒子如此重要。
It's where these treasures from Doug remain safe for Nick, for Nick, but not for me.
道格的这些宝藏对尼克、对尼克来说都是安全的，但对我来说却不是。
I have a different treasure trove of Doug's love, and he stands right next to me.
我有一个不同的道格爱的宝库，他就站在我旁边。
He's tall, and thin, and blonde, and freckled, and smart, and funny, and generous, and he's 10 years old.
他又高又瘦，金发碧眼，长着雀斑，聪明，风趣，大方，今年 10 岁。
Julie Hill, in Chicago.
朱莉·希尔，在芝加哥。
Three months after she put together this story, Doug finally died.
在她整理这个故事三个月后，道格终于去世了。
Well, our program was produced today by Diane Cook and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, and Lisa Pollak.
好吧，我们今天的节目是由黛安·库克和我本人以及亚历克斯·布伦伯格、简·费尔特斯、莎拉·科尼格和丽莎·波拉克制作的。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] You know, you can download today's program in our archives at audible.com/thisamericanlife.
[致谢] 您知道，您可以在 audible.com/thisamericanlife 的档案中下载今天的节目。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who is actually sitting right in our studio today.
[资金来源] Torey Malatia 先生对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他今天实际上就坐在我们的工作室里。
For once, he's right here.
这一次，他就在这里。
Torey, why don't you just get over to this mic.
Torey，你为什么不拿起这个麦克风呢？
Right here.
就在这里。
Don't be nervous.
别紧张。
Here, I'll open your mic.
在这里，我会打开你的麦克风。
Dar!
达！
Flar!
弗拉尔！
Figgy floo!
无花果飞路！
Vee floogle ooh!
Vee 弗鲁格尔哦！
Flogalo vase!
弗洛加洛花瓶！
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。