292: The Arms Trader - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #292 | July 8, 2005 292: The Arms Trader Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 292 集 | 2005 年 7 月 8 日 292：军火商 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass In a sense, the job our government got after 9/11 was nearly impossible.
序言 Ira Glass 从某种意义上说，我们的政府在 9/11 事件之后获得的工作几乎是不可能的。
They wanted to stop terrorists before they attacked.
他们想在恐怖分子发动袭击之前阻止他们。
But how can you find somebody and stop them and lock them up for something before they actually do it, before they blow up a subway car or take down a building or commit a crime?
但是，在他们真正做某事之前，在他们炸毁地铁车厢、拆除建筑物或犯罪之前，你如何才能找到某人并阻止他们并将他们关起来呢？
There's a dilemma, then, for the government, particularly if you've got a group of individuals who you've been surveilling for some time who look like the they fit some profile of would-be terrorists, but they're in the country lawfully and they've committed no crime.
那么，对于政府来说，这是一个两难的境地，特别是如果你已经监视了一群人，他们看起来符合潜在恐怖分子的某些特征，但他们在这个国家是合法的，并且没有犯罪。
On what basis do you take them off the street?
你凭什么把他们从街上带走？
This is William Banks, the head of the Institute for National Security and Counterterrorism at Syracuse University, which did a study looking at the terrorism cases that the Justice Department has prosecuted since 9/11.
我是威廉·班克斯，雪城大学国家安全与反恐研究所所长，该研究所对司法部自 9/11 以来起诉的恐怖主义案件进行了一项研究。
And he says that what the government decided to do about this dilemma was simply prosecute people that it found suspicious with any charges that it can make stick.
他说，政府决定解决这一困境的办法就是起诉那些它发现可疑的人，并提出任何可以坚持的指控。
At least it would get them off the street.
至少这会让他们离开街道。
And that meant arresting, detaining, for a variety of different reasons-- what you might call the kitchen-sink approach, throw it all and see what sticks.
这意味着逮捕、拘留，出于各种不同的原因——你可以称之为厨房水槽方法，把所有的东西都扔掉，看看什么能粘住。
And that's not very pretty and it's not very efficient.
这不是很漂亮，也不是很有效。
Take one of the best known cases, one that you may have heard of, the Lackawanna Six.
以最著名的案件之一为例，您可能听说过这一案件：拉克瓦纳六人案。
These are six young American men, Muslims, who lived outside Buffalo in the town of Lackawanna Back before September 11, they went to Pakistan and Afghanistan for religious instruction.
这是六名年轻的美国男子，他们是穆斯林，住在布法罗郊外的拉克万纳镇。9月11日之前，他们前往巴基斯坦和阿富汗接受宗教教育。
In Afghanistan, they were taken to an Al-Qaeda training camp.
在阿富汗，他们被带到基地组织训练营。
Osama bin Laden was there, they met him.
奥萨马·本·拉登在那里，他们遇见了他。
After 10 days, one of the guys didn't like what he was seeing and hearing and he left early.
10天后，其中一个人不喜欢他所看到和听到的一切，于是他提前离开了。
Three other guys also left early.
另外三个人也提前离开了。
They came back to the United States.
他们回到了美国。
When they returned, there was an anonymous tip given to the FBI, and FBI began serious surveillance of them.
当他们回来时，联邦调查局收到了匿名举报，联邦调查局开始对他们进行严格监视。
And they were in that classic dilemma that I just described: were they a sleeper cell waiting for instructions from somewhere else to carry out a terrorist attack in the United States, or are they just curious young men who happened to travel and simply made a mistake and come back to resume their lives in Buffalo?
他们陷入了我刚才描述的那种典型的困境：他们是一个潜伏的组织，等待其他地方的指示，在美国实施恐怖袭击，还是他们只是好奇的年轻人，碰巧旅行，只是犯了一个错误，然后回到布法罗继续他们的生活？
Dozens of FBI agents had them on 24-hour surveillance and they did nothing illegal.
数十名联邦调查局特工对他们进行了24小时监视，他们没有任何违法行为。
So eventually the authorities just couldn't wait any longer and hauled them in.
最终，当局实在等不及了，将他们抓了回来。
Attending the terrorist camp was material support of terrorism and thus illegal by itself.
参加恐怖分子营地是对恐怖主义的物质支持，因此本身就是非法的。
The men plead guilty, got 8-10 years each.
两名男子均认罪，每人被判处 8 至 10 年徒刑。
And we still don't know if they were, in fact, a sleeper cell.
我们仍然不知道它们实际上是否是一个休眠细胞。
We don't know if they were terrorists.
我们不知道他们是否是恐怖分子。
And this is difficult.
这很难。
Because these cases are all about getting people before they do anything bad, in most of these cases we never find out if the people were really connected to terrorism.
因为这些案件都是为了在人们做坏事之前将他们抓获，所以在大多数情况下，我们永远不会发现这些人是否真的与恐怖主义有联系。
Today on our radio program, we have the story of another one of the biggest cases that the Justice Department's had on the War on Terror, one of the few that's actually gone to trial.
今天，在我们的广播节目中，我们报道了司法部关于反恐战争的另一起最大案件的故事，也是为数不多的真正进入审判的案件之一。
Again, they went after a guy who had not done anything wrong, and they convicted him.
他们再次追捕一个没有做错任何事的人，并判他有罪。
On WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
WBEZ 芝加哥频道播放的是由国际公共广播电台发行的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
This story takes place in the world of international illegal arms sales and the world of wiretaps and informants and prosecutors.
这个故事发生在国际非法军火销售的世界以及窃听、线人和检察官的世界。
You'll be hearing FBI surveillance tape, you'll hear from the man who got put away, and you'll hear from the U.S. attorney who led the team that put him away.
你会听到联邦调查局的监控录像，你会听到被逮捕的人的声音，你会听到领导逮捕他的团队的美国检察官的声音。
Petra Bartosiewicz has the story, which we're devoting our whole show to today.
佩特拉·巴托谢维奇 (Petra Bartosiewicz) 讲述了这个故事，我们今天的整个节目都将讲述这个故事。
What you're about to hear is a victory speech almost four years in the making.
你将听到的是酝酿了近四年的胜利演讲。
It's April 23 of this year and the US Attorney is giving a press conference on the steps of the federal courthouse in Newark announcing the conviction of Hemant Lakhani.
今年 4 月 23 日，美国检察官在纽瓦克联邦法院的台阶上召开新闻发布会，宣布赫曼特·拉卡尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 被定罪。
Good morning.
早上好。
My name is Christopher Christie, I'm the United States Attorney for the District of New Jersey.
我叫克里斯托弗·克里斯蒂，是新泽西州地区联邦检察官。
The jury has spoken, and Hemant Lakhani is not a women's clothing salesman.
陪审团已发言，赫曼特·拉卡尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 不是女装推销员。
He's been found guilty on all counts for attempting to lend material support to terrorists, money laundering, smuggling, illegal brokering of weapons.
他因试图向恐怖分子提供物质支持、洗钱、走私、非法武器经纪等罪名而被判有罪。
Today is a triumph for the Justice Department and the war against terror.
今天是司法部和反恐战争的胜利。
I don't know that anyone can say that the state of New Jersey and this country is not a safer place without Hemant Lakhani trotting around the globe attempting to broker arms deals.
我不知道如果没有赫曼特·拉卡尼在全球各地试图斡旋军火交易，谁能说新泽西州和这个国家不是一个更安全的地方。
Later, the very same day, in the Passaic County lockup sits the convicted terrorist sympathizer Hemant Lakhani.
同一天晚些时候，被定罪的恐怖分子同情者赫曼特·拉哈尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 就被关在帕赛克县看守所里。
(CRYING).
（哭）。
Petra Bartosiewicz Oh, I'm sorry.
佩特拉·巴托谢维奇 哦，对不起。
Hemant Lakhani is a liar, a shameless braggart, a snob.
赫曼特·拉卡尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 是一个骗子、一个无耻的吹牛者、一个势利小人。
He's amoral, selfish, and he's greedy.
他不道德，自私，而且贪婪。
But the thing is, if you hear his story, it's hard to believe that on his own he would have ever succeeded in buying or delivering a missile to a terrorist group.
但问题是，如果你听过他的故事，你很难相信他能够成功地购买或向恐怖组织运送导弹。
In fact, he's an amazingly incompetent illegal arms trader.
事实上，他是一个极其无能的非法军火商。
And it's not at all clear that the world or New Jersey are any safer with him off the streets.
尚不清楚当他离开街道时，世界或新泽西是否会更安全。
How is Mrs. Lakhani?
拉卡尼夫人怎么样？
Petra Bartosiewicz She's OK, I'm going to talk to her later.
Petra Bartosiewicz 她很好，我稍后再跟她谈谈。
That's me comforting him, telling him I'm sorry, that his wife is going to be OK.
那是我安慰他，告诉他我很抱歉，他的妻子会没事的。
The truth is, I'm not sure I'm exactly sorry, and I don't really know if his wife is going to be OK.
事实是，我不确定我是否真的感到抱歉，而且我真的不知道他的妻子是否会好起来。
But when an old man is sitting next to you crying like that reminiscing about their life together, what else are you going to say?
但当一个老人坐在你旁边哭着回忆他们一起的生活时，你还能说什么呢？
By putting me away for 100 years or 5 years or 50 years, what do you think they're doing?
把我关起来100年、5年、50年，你认为他们在做什么？
Do you think that terrorism is going to stop?
您认为恐怖主义会停止吗？
I have nothing to do with terrorism.
我与恐怖主义无关。
I'm not Muslim, I'm not a part of Al-Qaeda or Hamas or Hamas anything.
我不是穆斯林，我不属于基地组织或哈马斯或哈马斯任何组织。
And what am I going to get from America?
我能从美国得到什么？
What have I got against America?
我对美国有什么看法？
Why?
为什么？
Hemant Lakhani is 70-years-old.
赫曼特·拉卡尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 70 岁。
He is Indian, but he's a British citizen who lived in London for decades.
他是印度人，但他是英国公民，在伦敦生活了几十年。
And all his life, he's made his living by being a salesman of one sort or another.
他一生都靠做某种推销员谋生。
Clothing, rice, oil, armored personnel carriers-- more on that later-- and lately, it seems, an illegal shoulder-fired missile.
服装、大米、石油、装甲运兵车——稍后会详细介绍——最近似乎还有非法的肩扛式导弹。
So how did a salesman, a guy with no criminal history whatsoever, become a target in the War on Terror?
那么，一个没有任何犯罪记录的推销员是如何成为反恐战争的目标的呢？
Bad timing has a lot to do with it.
糟糕的时机有很大关系。
As it happened, the US Attorney who sent him to prison, Christopher Christie, was nominated to his job by President Bush on September 10, 2001.
碰巧的是，将他送进监狱的美国检察官克里斯托弗·克里斯蒂 (Christopher Christie) 于 2001 年 9 月 10 日被布什总统提名担任该职务。
His office has this huge conference room with giant windows facing lower Manhattan.
他的办公室有一个巨大的会议室，巨大的窗户面向曼哈顿下城。
We're sitting in my conference room doing this interview, you look out those windows, you have an unobstructed view of of Manhattan.
我们坐在我的会议室里进行这次采访，你往窗外看，曼哈顿的景色一览无余。
And people sat in this conference room and watched both buildings collapse.
人们坐在这个会议室里，看着两座建筑倒塌。
And so the atmosphere when I came in a few months later after my confirmation was still one of real crisis and of real sadness, and it was enormously stressful.
因此，几个月后，当我得到确认后，当我进来时，气氛仍然是一种真正的危机和真正的悲伤，而且压力很大。
And I can tell you that in my first six months here, I was confronted on a weekly basis with a widow or a child who had lost their family.
我可以告诉你，在我来这里的头六个月里，我每周都会遇到失去家人的寡妇或孩子。
In my own parish at home we lost two people.
在我家的教区，我们失去了两个人。
In my children's school, there were three parents who were killed.
在我孩子的学校里，有三位家长被杀。
And they look to you now-- you're the US Attorney-- and they look to you to say, are we safe?
他们现在指望你——你是美国检察官——他们指望你说，我们安全吗？
And so that was the atmosphere when you walked in, and that was the atmosphere under which Lakhani started.
这就是你走进来时的氛围，也是拉卡尼开始的氛围。
You have to place everything that happens in the early parts of Lakhani in that context, that we were intent, as prosecutors-- and I believe the agents felt this way, too-- of making sure it wasn't going to happen again.
你必须把拉卡尼案早期发生的一切都放在这样的背景下，我们作为检察官的意图——我相信特工们也有这种感觉——确保它不会再次发生。
We clearly now had a brand new mandate from the President and the Attorney General.
显然，我们现在得到了总统和司法部长的全新授权。
And the mandate was prevent a terrorist attack, not solve it after it happens, but prevent it.
任务是防止恐怖袭击，不是在恐怖袭击发生后解决它，而是预防它。
And I don't think people still understand what a sea change that was for federal law enforcement in this country.
我认为人们仍然不明白这个国家的联邦执法部门发生了多大的变化。
So it's understandable that Christie's interest was piqued when he heard a report from an informant about Hemant Lakhani his very first week on the job.
因此，当克里斯蒂上任第一周听到线人关于赫曼特·拉卡尼的报道时，他的兴趣就被激起了，这是可以理解的。
It was in a normal weekly terrorism briefing on the fact that we had this informant who was telling us that there was someone who approached him regarding his willingness to broker missile sales.
这是在一次正常的每周恐怖主义简报中，我们有一位线人告诉我们，有人与他接洽，询问他是否愿意中介导弹销售。
That informant is the next important piece of this story.
该线人是这个故事的下一个重要部分。
To explain his part in it, we actually have to go back a couple decades to Lahore, Pakistan, to an American Drug Enforcement Administration agent named Charles Lee.
为了解释他在其中所扮演的角色，我们实际上必须回到几十年前的巴基斯坦拉合尔，一位名叫查尔斯·李的美国缉毒局特工。
Lee was a former seminarian who, sitting on the toilet one day at school, happened to pick up a Reader's Digest and opened it to a New York cop story called "Merchants of Heroin".
李曾是一名神学院学生，有一天，他在学校的厕所里偶然拿起一本《读者文摘》，打开它，读到了一篇名为《海洛因商人》的纽约警匪故事。
He was so taken with the story that he quit the seminary the very next day and became a federal agent.
他对这个故事非常着迷，第二天就从神学院退学，成为一名联邦特工。
He ended up stationed in Lahore.
他最终驻扎在拉合尔。
One day, a contact brought this guy to his office named Habib, who said he wanted to work for the US government on drug cases.
有一天，一位联系人将这个名叫哈比卜的人带到了他的办公室，他说他想为美国政府处理毒品案件。
He talked about some people that we were quite interested in.
他谈到了一些我们很感兴趣的人。
I asked him about a particular individual up in Northwest Frontier that we had had no success with.
我向他询问了西北边境某个特定人物的情况，但我们并没有与他取得成功。
He was wanted in, I believe, at least two or three judicial districts.
我相信，至少有两三个司法区对他进行了通缉。
And he was already indicted, all we needed to do is get him out, but you couldn't even get the Army to go after these people up there.
他已经被起诉了，我们需要做的就是让他出去，但你甚至无法让军队追捕那里的这些人。
So Habib said that he could get this person out.
于是哈比卜就说他可以把这个人救出来。
I thought, well, nothing could be a better acid test than to try that with Habib to begin with, because if he could do that, he must be able to do just about anything.
我想，嗯，没有什么比从哈比卜身上开始进行测试更好的考验了，因为如果他能做到这一点，他一定能够做任何事情。
And here, Habib comes along and in no time flat, delivered this guy right out.
这时，哈比卜出现了，很快就把这个家伙救了出来。
Kaboom, we had him.
卡布姆，我们抓住了他。
And well, it made a believer out of all of us.
好吧，它让我们所有人都成为了信徒。
This guy obviously could do it.
这家伙显然可以做到。
So that started it.
于是就开始了。
So everybody loved Habib then.
所以当时每个人都喜欢哈比卜。
Habib turned out to be a great informant.
事实证明，哈比卜是一位出色的线人。
For about a year and a half, he and lee made case after case.
在大约一年半的时间里，他和李不断地处理案件。
Then one day, Habib's cover was suddenly blown.
然后有一天，哈比卜的身份突然被揭穿。
A drug dealer tried to kill him, and Lee swooped in to save him.
一名毒贩试图杀死他，李猛扑过去救了他。
Within 24 hours, Habib and his family were in the US.
24小时内，哈比卜和他的家人就到达了美国。
But now he had no job and no support.
但现在他没有工作，也没有支持。
So after a while, he tracked down Lee who, by then, had returned to the US and asked him if he could do DEA cases in the States.
于是过了一段时间，他找到了当时已经回到美国的Lee，询问他是否可以在美国做DEA的案件。
Lee tried to discourage him, telling him he'd done enough.
李试图劝阻他，告诉他他已经做得足够了。
But Habib was persistent and they started working together again.
但哈比卜坚持不懈，他们再次开始合作。
But Lee says Habib wasn't on top of his game because he wasn't on his native turf, and because he was just plain burned out.
但李说，哈比卜并没有在比赛中处于最佳状态，因为他不在自己的地盘上，而且因为他只是精疲力尽。
And that came to light during one investigation where Habib tried to incriminate a guy who, in Lee's words, was not a doper, period.
这在一次调查中曝光，哈比卜试图指控一名用李的话来说不是吸毒者的人。
Lee couldn't figure out what Habib's motive was for setting the guy up.
李不明白哈比卜陷害这家伙的动机是什么。
When that happens, it calls into question this guy's abilities and his veracity and, I mean, it calls everything into question.
当这种情况发生时，就会让人质疑这个人的能力和他的真实性，我的意思是，这会让一切都受到质疑。
Asking him about it, he didn't have the answers.
问他这个问题，他也没有答案。
And when you don't have the answers in this game, it's good night.
当你在这个游戏中没有答案时，那就晚安了。
So rather than trying to second guess a bunch of that, you just close this guy out.
因此，与其试图对这些进行二次猜测，不如直接将这个人排除在外。
That's the end of him.
这就是他的结局。
Unreliable.
不可靠。
So Lee dropped Habib and fell out of touch with him, until one day he showed up at his house broke, and once again pleading for Lee's help.
于是李抛弃了哈比卜，并与他失去了联系，直到有一天，他身无分文地出现在他家，并再次恳求李的帮助。
By this time, Lee had retired.
此时，李已经退休了。
Still, he felt guilty for abandoning Habib, who had risked his life for the government and who he considered a friend.
尽管如此，他还是对抛弃哈比卜感到内疚，因为哈比卜为政府冒着生命危险，而且他认为哈比卜是朋友。
So he went ahead and introduced him to the FBI.
于是他继续把他介绍给联邦调查局。
He figured Habib might be tapped out on drug cases, but maybe he could do some other kinds of informing, like in terrorism investigations.
他认为哈比卜可能会因毒品案件而出局，但也许他可以提供其他一些信息，例如恐怖主义调查。
And at the same time, Lee started a rice importing business with him.
与此同时，李与他一起开展了大米进口业务。
He thought it would help get Habib on his feet permanently.
他认为这将有助于哈比卜永久站起来。
But pretty soon, he found out Habib had ripped him off.
但很快，他发现哈比卜欺骗了他。
He'd sold the same shipment twice, and Lee had to make good on $25,000 he'd stolen from a customer.
同一批货物他已售出两次，李必须偿还从一位顾客那里偷来的 25,000 美元。
And then he found out Habib had ripped other people off, too, had threatened people, said he could get people killed.
然后他发现哈比卜也敲诈了其他人，还威胁过人们，说他可以杀人。
Lee was floored.
李被击倒了。
He cut off Habib completely.
他彻底切断了哈比卜的联系。
He also typed up a nine-page letter about what he learned and delivered it to Habib's FBI handler.
他还打印了一封长达九页的信，讲述了他所了解到的情况，并将其交给了哈比卜的联邦调查局负责人。
I mean, if you find out about it, you better end your relationship with him.
我的意思是，如果你发现了这件事，你最好结束和他的关系。
It's really, at that point, not even a judgment call.
到那时，这甚至不是一个判断。
He never heard back from the FBI, but the FBI did, in fact, deactivate Habib sometime after Lee sent his letter.
他从未收到联邦调查局的回复，但事实上，在李寄出信后的某个时间，联邦调查局确实停用了哈比卜。
And then, after 9/11, Habib's experience and language skills suddenly made him a hot property, and different FBI Bureaus were fighting over him.
然后，9/11之后，哈比卜的经验和语言能力突然使他成为炙手可热的人物，不同的联邦调查局局都在争夺他。
He ended up in the Newark Bureau, which is also the jurisdiction of US Attorney Chris Christie.
他最终进入了纽瓦克分局，该分局也是美国检察官克里斯克里斯蒂的管辖范围。
It's Habib who first spotted Hemant Lakhani and brought him to the attention of the FBI.
哈比卜最先发现了赫曼特·拉卡尼，并引起了联邦调查局的注意。
When Lee heard about the case, he was stunned that the FBI was talking to Habib at all.
当李听说这个案子时，他惊讶地发现联邦调查局竟然在与哈比卜交谈。
I was surprised.
我很惊讶。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It went through my mind, I wonder how they could justify doing that?
我脑子里闪过这个念头，我想知道他们如何证明这样做是合理的？
I wondered if it was a legit case.
我想知道这是否是一个合法的案例。
I'm sure these terrorism cases are exceedingly difficult to make, and exceedingly difficult to break into.
我确信这些恐怖主义案件极其难以侦破，也极其难以破获。
And therein lies the temptation to reactivate a guy like Habib.
这其中存在着重新激活像哈比卜这样的人的诱惑。
Maybe they took him out and dusted him off and put him back to work.
也许他们把他带出去，掸掉身上的灰尘，然后让他回去工作。
So here's how Habib ended up at the center of one of the biggest post-9/11 terrorism-related cases.
这就是哈比卜如何成为 9/11 事件后最大的恐怖主义相关案件之一的中心人物。
Habib knew an Indian gangster named Abdul Kayum, who also knew Lakhani.
哈比卜认识一个名叫阿卜杜勒·卡尤姆的印度黑帮，他也认识拉卡尼。
Just to clear up a confusing thing about the tape you're about to hear, Habib's full name is Mohammed Habib Rehman, and the government refers to him as Rehman.
为了澄清您将要听到的录音带中令人困惑的事情，哈比卜的全名是穆罕默德·哈比卜·雷曼，政府称他为雷曼。
But his nickname is Hajji, a term of respect for a Muslim who has made the Hajj, the pilgrim's trip to Mecca.
但他的昵称是 Hajji，这是对参加朝觐（麦加朝圣之旅）的穆斯林的尊重。
So other people call him Hajji.
所以其他人都叫他哈吉。
Here's US Attorney Chris Christie.
请听美国检察官克里斯·克里斯蒂的报道。
The ties that Lakhani was claiming to have to us to the terrorist whose last name was Kayum was one that was of particular interest to us.
拉卡尼声称我们与姓卡尤姆的恐怖分子之间的联系是我们特别感兴趣的。
The fact that Kayum even knew who Lakhani was-- you know, I don't know what a women's clothing salesman is doing being associated well enough with someone like Kayum to wind up having Kayum be able to recommend him to someone like Rehman.
事实上，Kayum 甚至知道 Lakhani 是谁——你知道，我不知道一个女装推销员在做什么，与像 Kayum 这样的人有足够的联系，最终让 Kayum 能够把他推荐给像 Rehman 这样的人。
A word here about Abdul Kayum.
关于阿卜杜勒·卡尤姆（Abdul Kayum）的事。
He's suspected of a series of bomb attacks in Bombay in 1993.
他涉嫌参与 1993 年孟买的一系列炸弹袭击事件。
Kayum's name is on terrorist watch lists around the world, and Lakhani's association with him is one of the most incriminating things about this case, and something Lakhani has never been able to explain away.
卡尤姆的名字出现在世界各地的恐怖分子观察名单上，而拉卡尼与他的联系是此案中最有罪的事情之一，而拉卡尼始终无法解释这一点。
What we do know is that in the fall of 2001, Kayum was sitting in Lakhani's hotel room in Dubai-- a hotel they both regularly stayed at, Lakhani says-- talking business.
我们所知道的是，2001 年秋天，Kayum 坐在拉卡尼位于迪拜的酒店房间里——拉卡尼说，他们都经常住这家酒店——谈论生意。
At the time, Lakhani's career was in something of a slump.
当时，拉卡尼的职业生涯陷入低谷。
He had been a successful clothing importer, but when that fell apart in the early 1980s, he went into other stuff.
他曾是一家成功的服装进口商，但在 20 世纪 80 年代初破产后，他开始从事其他业务。
He bought a rice business, and later a small Indian airline.
他买了一家大米公司，后来又买了一家小型印度航空公司。
But those went under after a while too.
但过了一段时间之后，这些也都消失了。
He tried to recoup his losses by brokering various other deals.
他试图通过促成其他各种交易来弥补损失。
His latest one was an oil refinery deal.
他最近的一笔交易是一项炼油厂交易。
At the moment when he was sitting in the hotel room with Kayum, he was looking for oil investors.
当他和卡尤姆坐在酒店房间里的那一刻，他正在寻找石油投资者。
At some point, Kayum gets a call on his cell phone from Rehman, aka Hajji, who Kayum knows only as a rich businessman.
某个时候，Kayum 接到了 Rehman（又名 Hajji）打来的电话，Kayum 只知道他是一位富商。
So what happened is that Kayum said that Hajji is a very powerful man in America, he's worth, himself, a few hundred million dollars.
Kayum 说 Hajji 在美国是一个非常有权势的人，他本人就身价数亿美元。
And maybe he can help you, speak to him.
也许他可以帮助你，和他谈谈。
So I said, oh hi, Mr. Hajji, hello.
所以我说，哦嗨，哈吉先生，你好。
And then he tells me that I believe that you're looking for a financier for a refinery project.
然后他告诉我，我相信您正在为炼油厂项目寻找融资者。
So I thought he must be a powerful man.
所以我想他一定是个很有实力的人。
Of course, he was nothing of the sort.
当然，他不是这样的人。
At this point, Rehman was making his living as an FBI informant, and had actually racked up a string of unpaid debts.
此时，雷曼以联邦调查局线人的身份谋生，实际上已经欠下了一系列未偿还的债务。
But Lakhani knew none of this.
但拉卡尼对此一无所知。
So Rehman starts to feel Lakhani out to see if he could be of interest to the FBI.
因此，雷曼开始试探拉卡尼，看看联邦调查局是否会对他感兴趣。
He calls him over several months.
他几个月来一直给他打电话。
Henry Klingeman, Lakhani's defense attorney, says at this point, the informant saw Lakhani as his meal ticket.
拉卡尼的辩护律师亨利·克林格曼 (Henry Klingeman) 表示，此时，线人将拉卡尼视为他的餐券。
A meal ticket, dupe, patsy.
一张饭票，骗子，可怜虫。
Rehman is everything Lakhani's not.
雷赫曼与拉卡尼完全不同。
He's smart, he's savvy.
他很聪明，他很精明。
When Rehman reports back to the FBI, the information looks incredibly promising.
当雷曼向联邦调查局报告时，这些信息看起来非常有希望。
He describes Lakhani as a major weapons trafficker to terrorist groups in at least five countries.
他将拉卡尼描述为至少五个国家恐怖组织的主要武器贩运者。
Again, Henry Klingeman.
又是亨利·克林格曼。
I'm looking at a set of handwritten notes prepared by the FBI agent who handled the informant.
我正在查看处理该线人的联邦调查局特工准备的一组手写笔记。
The notes are dated December 19, 2001, and they include his summary of what the informant said to him about Lakhani, specifically that Lakhani was a main weapons trafficker tied to Pakistani, Indian criminals, Sri Lankan terrorists, Nepal and United Arab Emirates terrorists, that Lakhani is a broker of crude oil from Iraq-- and again, this was during the time of the embargo.
这些笔记的日期为 2001 年 12 月 19 日，其中包括他对线人向他讲述的关于拉卡尼的情况的总结，特别是拉卡尼是与巴基斯坦、印度犯罪分子、斯里兰卡恐怖分子、尼泊尔和阿拉伯联合酋长国恐怖分子有联系的主要武器贩运者，拉哈尼是来自伊拉克的原油经纪人——而且，这是在禁运期间。
Saddam Hussein was still in power and Iraqi oil was embargoed.
萨达姆·侯赛因仍在掌权，伊拉克石油受到禁运。
That Lakhani was supplying weapons to the Mojahedin, the holy warriors in Kashmir, that he was best friends with the Ukrainian Prime Minister-- no name given-- and that he was worth $300 to $400 million, meaning Lakhani.
拉哈尼向克什米尔的圣战者圣战者提供武器，他是乌克兰总理最好的朋友（没有透露姓名），而且他的身价为 300 至 4 亿美元，这就是拉哈尼的意思。
Lakhani, who lives in a semi-detached London home in a London suburb.
拉卡尼住在伦敦郊区的一栋半独立式住宅中。
Two old cars in the garage.
车库里有两辆旧车。
With respect to what weapons Lakhani claimed he could sell, the agent's notes indicate that the informant told the agents that Lakhani could sell large-scale weapons, including missiles, anti-aircraft guns, any type of weapons.
至于拉卡尼声称他可以出售哪些武器，特工的笔记显示，线人告诉特工，拉卡尼可以出售大型武器，包括导弹、高射炮和任何类型的武器。
On January 17, 2002, Lakhani and Rehman finally meet for the first time in Newark.
2002 年 1 月 17 日，拉卡尼和雷曼终于在纽瓦克第一次见面。
Now the investigation kicks into gear.
现在调查正式启动。
The government surveillance tapes are rolling.
政府的监控录像正在滚动。
They show grainy black and white images of Lakhani sitting across a large table from Rehman.
它们展示了拉卡尼坐在雷曼的一张大桌子对面的颗粒状黑白图像。
They're in a room at the Gateway Hilton overlooking Newark Airport, and clearly Rehman is now trying to initiate a deal with Lakhani.
他们在盖特威希尔顿酒店的一个房间里，俯瞰着纽瓦克机场，显然雷曼现在正试图与拉卡尼达成协议。
And just as clearly, Lakhani is eager to oblige.
同样明显的是，拉卡尼也很乐意效劳。
The two men speak in Urdu and Hindi, and the translation sounds sort of like English-language instructional videos.
两人用乌尔都语和印地语交谈，翻译听起来有点像英语教学视频。
Rehman's translator is the first voice you'll hear.
您听到的第一个声音是雷曼的翻译。
Yes, the guns, and the anti-aircraft guns.
是的，枪，还有高射炮。
Yes, they're available.
是的，它们可用。
Rehman's Translator Do you have something latest, latest missiles, something sinister, just like Stinger with an effective range of at least 15,000 feet?
雷曼的翻译器 你有最新、最新的导弹吗？有什么险恶的东西吗，就像有效射程至少 15,000 英尺的“毒刺”一样？
Yes, available.
是的，可用。
Rehman's Translator Give me the details about that one.
雷曼的翻译 请告诉我有关那个翻译的详细信息。
The main thing is the anti-aircraft gun.
最主要的是高射炮。
Yes, the anti-aircraft gun and anything else you think is important.
是的，高射炮和其他你认为重要的东西。
Ammo?
弹药？
In ammo, I can give you whatever you want.
在弹药方面，你想要什么我都可以给你。
Anything you ask for, every gun and everything, as much as you want.
任何你想要的东西，每把枪和一切，只要你想要的。
Yes, they're expert in this.
是的，他们是这方面的专家。
Rehman's Translator Good.
雷曼的翻译好。
I mean, this is a guy who promised to sell submarines to the informant if the informant wanted them.
我的意思是，这个人承诺如果线人想要的话，就向线人出售潜艇。
That's the kind of thing that ought to make an FBI agent listening to the conversation just take his headphones off and shake his head.
这种事情应该会让听到谈话的联邦调查局特工摘下耳机并摇头。
Why are we doing this?
我们为什么要这样做？
This guy is promising to sell submarines.
这家伙承诺出售潜艇。
It's preposterous.
这太荒谬了。
I mean, the one thing he didn't offer was an aircraft carrier or a space shuttle.
我的意思是，他没有提供的一件事是航空母舰或航天飞机。
But if he had asked them for one, I'm sure he could tell you that Lakhani could get you both.
但如果他向他们要一份，我相信他会告诉你拉卡尼可以给你们两个。
Lakhani supposedly told the informant that he-- meaning Lakhani-- has people in the US government.
据推测，拉卡尼告诉线人，他——指的是拉卡尼——在美国政府中有人。
And next to that, it says, obtains weapons, NVG-- which, as we've said, is night vision goggles-- so the obvious implication is that Lakhani has contacts within our own government from whom he obtains weapons, including night vision goggles.
接下来，它说，获得武器，NVG——正如我们所说，是夜视镜——所以明显的含义是，拉卡尼在我们自己的政府内部有联系，他从他们那里获得武器，包括夜视镜。
And also get me order for night vision goggles.
还帮我订购夜视镜。
What is that?
那是什么？
Rehman's Translator That's something for seeing at night.
雷曼的翻译 这是晚上看的东西。
Are they buying it?
他们买吗？
Rehman's Translator Yes, they need a lot of them.
雷曼的翻译是的，他们需要很多。
It is their demand.
这是他们的要求。
What, sunglasses?
什么，太阳镜？
Henry Klingeman And it's just evident that he has no idea what this guy is talking about.
Henry Klingeman 很明显他不知道这个人在说什么。
And they had a similar conversation about plutonium.
他们就钚进行了类似的对话。
Supposedly, Lakhani bragged to the informant that he could get plutonium in 22-pound bottles.
据说，拉卡尼向线人吹嘘说他可以得到装在 22 磅重的瓶子里的钚。
Now, how he came up with an increment, one can only imagine.
现在，他是如何想出增量的，人们只能想象。
But in any event, the informant mentions PLU 135, which is plutonium.
但无论如何，线人提到了 PLU 135，即钚。
And again, Lakhani betrays an absolute ignorance about what this guy is talking about.
拉卡尼再次暴露出他对这个人在说什么一无所知。
None of the claims that Rehman initially made about the Lakhani checked out, not one of them.
雷赫曼最初提出的关于拉卡尼人的说法没有一个得到证实，一个也没有。
Not the supposed arms deals or the nuclear material or the personal wealth.
不是所谓的军火交易、核材料或个人财富。
Though it's very possible that the source of this bad information was Lakhani himself.
尽管这些不良信息的来源很可能是拉卡尼本人。
Klingeman describes his client as a name dropper who associated himself with real events and real people, but actually had nothing to do with them.
克林格曼将他的客户描述为一个擅自取名的人，他将自己与真实的事件和真实的人联系起来，但实际上与他们无关。
To be sure, his bragging is boundless.
可以肯定的是，他的吹牛是无止境的。
Here's a small sample, taken, mind you, from just one conversation.
请注意，这是一个小样本，取自一次谈话。
The richest man in London as an Indian is concerned, I was the richest man.
作为一个印度人，伦敦首富而言，我是首富。
This was Lakhani in those days.
这就是当时的拉卡尼。
And when I used to get done at the airport, there was a red carpet for Lakhani.
当我过去在机场办完事时，拉卡尼会铺上红地毯。
Red carpet.
红地毯。
Nothing, not blue or green, a red carpet was given to me.
什么都没有，不是蓝色或绿色，而是给了我一条红地毯。
Why?
为什么？
Because I was the most important man.
因为我是最重要的人。
I became very friendly with the Royal Family, and it's a fact.
我与王室变得非常友好，这是事实。
And they used to love me.
他们曾经爱过我。
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] is the [UNINTELLIGIBLE], you know that.
[无法理解]就是[无法理解]，你知道的。
I know him very well, believe me.
我很了解他，相信我。
He claimed to have lunch with Tony Blair at 10 Downing Street.
他声称与托尼·布莱尔在唐宁街 10 号共进午餐。
Said he knew Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi, former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, the Prime Minister of Sri Lanka, the President of Congo.
说他认识利比亚独裁者卡扎菲、巴基斯坦前总理贝娜齐尔·布托、斯里兰卡总理、刚果总统。
When I first visited him in prison, I asked him if he really knew all these people.
当我第一次去监狱探望他时，我问他是否真的认识所有这些人。
He told me, you want to meet Tony Blair?
他告诉我，你想见托尼·布莱尔吗？
Give me 48 hours and he'll be in your house.
给我 48 小时，他就会来你家。
So it's quite possible that Lakhani lied to Rehman about who he was, or maybe Rehman exaggerated.
因此，拉卡尼很可能对雷曼谎报了自己的身份，或者雷曼夸大了事实。
Understandably, this isn't something the government wants to contemplate.
可以理解的是，这不是政府想要考虑的事情。
Here's US Attorney Chris Christie.
请听美国检察官克里斯·克里斯蒂的报道。
Did you ever feel at any point in the investigation that he oversold Lakhani even a little bit on some of those things that didn't seem to pan out, like his $300 to $400 million net worth, that he was a major arms trafficker in numerous countries?
在调查过程中的任何时候，你有没有感觉到他在一些似乎没有成功的事情上稍微夸大了拉卡尼，比如他的 300 到 4 亿美元的净资产，他是许多国家的主要军火贩运者？
You know, listen.
你知道，听着。
I'm not going to sit around and second guess it.
我不会坐下来再猜测。
What was done was done, and I think ultimately the jury decided that question.
事情已经发生了，我认为陪审团最终决定了这个问题。
For Christie, it was enough that Lakhani knew Kayum, and that he had done at least one arms deal before he met the informant.
对于克里斯蒂来说，拉卡尼认识卡尤姆就足够了，而且他在遇到线人之前至少做过一笔军火交易。
That was enough experience in the arms trade to be suspicious.
军火贸易方面的经验足以令人怀疑。
Like if you came to me today, Petra, and said to me, Chris, give me a brochure on the Stinger missile and see if you could fax it to me.
就像佩特拉，如果你今天来找我，对我说，克里斯，给我一本关于毒刺导弹的小册子，看看是否可以传真给我。
Just because I'm doing this program, and if you could get it for me.
只是因为我正在做这个程序，如果你能为我得到它。
I wouldn't know the first place to start.
我不知道从哪里开始。
Where do I get a brochure on Stinger missile or on an Igla missile.
我在哪里可以获得有关“毒刺”导弹或“Igla”导弹的宣传册。
I would have no idea where to start.
我不知道从哪里开始。
I don't know if you'd have an idea of where to start.
我不知道你是否知道从哪里开始。
Lakhani knew.
拉卡尼知道。
Actually, if you Google the word Stinger, missile, and brochure, you can find a Stinger sales brochure in a few seconds.
事实上，如果你用谷歌搜索“毒刺”、导弹和宣传册这个词，几秒钟之内你就可以找到毒刺销售手册。
And the one arms deal the government knew Lakhani was part of went like this.
政府知道拉卡尼参与的一项军火交易是这样的。
As an assistant to another broker, Lakhani had helped arrange the sale of some armored personnel carriers to Angola for use by the President of Angola.
作为另一位经纪人的助理，拉卡尼曾帮助安排向安哥拉出售一些装甲运兵车，供安哥拉总统使用。
Proper paperwork was filed with various governments.
向各国政府提交了适当的文件。
Everything was above board.
一切都是光明正大的。
It was all perfectly legal.
这一切都是完全合法的。
If you push Christie, he'll admit that at the end of the day, Lakhani wasn't exactly a criminal mastermind or even a very good salesman, but he was the suspect they had.
如果你逼克里斯蒂，他最终会承认，拉卡尼并不是一个犯罪策划者，甚至不是一个非常好的推销员，但他是他们的嫌疑人。
They couldn't predict where the next attack on America might come from, so they'd investigate Lakhani as aggressively as possible to see where he might lead them and who he might lead them to.
他们无法预测对美国的下一次袭击可能来自哪里，因此他们会尽可能积极地调查拉卡尼，看看他可能会带领他们去哪里以及他可能会带领他们去找谁。
So they begin to ratchet up the case.
因此他们开始加大力度处理案件。
The informant Rehman tells Lakhani he wants to order 200 missiles.
线人雷曼告诉拉卡尼他想订购 200 枚导弹。
But first, Lakhani has to prove he can deliver.
但首先，拉卡尼必须证明他能够兑现承诺。
He needs to get just one, a sample, and he needs to ship it to Newark.
他只需要得到一个样品，然后他需要将其运送到纽瓦克。
There's talk of hundreds of thousands in profits and a half million dollar bonus.
据说有数十万的利润和五十万美元的奖金。
Then Rehman tells Lakhani that he represents a Somali terrorist group called the Ogaden Liberation Front-- a real organization, by the way, but not a terrorist one.
然后雷曼告诉拉卡尼，他代表一个名为欧加登解放阵线的索马里恐怖组织——顺便说一句，这是一个真正的组织，但不是恐怖组织。
And at a certain point well into the deal, Rehman tells the group wants to start Jihad in America, and throws in a reference to Al-Qaeda for good measure.
在协议达成的某个阶段，雷曼告诉该组织希望在美国发起圣战，并提到了基地组织。
Lakhani, usually talkative on any subject, seems to have no reaction to this news.
平时对任何话题都健谈的拉卡尼似乎对这个消息没有任何反应。
"Boss, you have no idea how much money there is in this business", Rehman says.
“老板，你不知道这个行业有多少钱”，雷曼说。
If you ask Lekhani why he did it, he can't really explain.
如果你问莱卡尼为什么这么做，他也无法解释。
He says it wasn't ideological or political, and he claims he didn't need the money.
他说这与意识形态或政治无关，并且他声称他不需要这笔钱。
The best answer he came up with when my producer, Sarah Koenig, and I interviewed him was, well, voodoo.
当我的制片人莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）和我采访他时，他想出的最好答案是，嗯，巫毒。
And a lot of long distance phone calls.
还有很多长途电话。
By the second meeting, you had already agreed to try to get this stuff for him.
在第二次见面时，你已经同意尝试为他获取这些东西。
Why did you do that?
你为什么这么做？
To say it's a mistake, it seems to be understating the activity.
说这是一个错误，似乎低估了这项活动。
It's more than a mistake.
这不仅仅是一个错误。
It's a serious decision to enter into something that's potentially--
这是一个严肃的决定，要做一些有潜力的事情——
You're interrupting me.
你在打扰我。
Petra Bartosiewicz It's a legitimate question.
Petra Bartosiewicz 这是一个合理的问题。
There's a guy who you have some doubts about, he's asking you for things that you know are illegal, basically.
有一个人让你有些怀疑，他向你索要一些你知道基本上是非法的事情。
You have other priorities with your oil deal, you're trying to get financing, why do you bother to go forward with this guy?
你的石油交易还有其他优先事项，你正在努力获得融资，为什么你还要费心与这个人合作呢？
Well, it happened.
好吧，它发生了。
He induced me.
他诱导了我。
You can call it inducing.
你可以称之为诱导。
He induced me, that's all I can tell you.
他诱导了我，这就是我能告诉你的。
I have no other reply.
我没有其他答复。
What does that mean, exactly, to you, though?
但这对你来说究竟意味着什么？
How did he get to you?
他是怎么找到你的？
You are very worldy, you know many people, you've done these deals before, how is that he is able to convince you?
你很世故，认识很多人，这些交易你都做过，他怎么能说服你呢？
He induced me, that's all I can tell you.
他诱导了我，这就是我能告诉你的。
He induced me.
他诱导了我。
Nothing more.
而已。
I was not greedy, I was not looking for extra money or big money or small money, because money isn't an object in my life.
我并不贪婪，我不追求额外的钱或大钱或小钱，因为钱不是我生活中的目标。
But he induced me.
但他诱导了我。
Somehow he made some kind of magic on me and I could say no. Whatever happened, I don't know.
不知怎的，他对我施了某种魔法，我可以拒绝。不管发生了什么，我不知道。
And he used to bother me like nobody's business.
他曾经像别人一样打扰我。
He would bother me 10 times a day.
他一天会骚扰我10次。
Sometimes-- I can show you the transcript-- call number one, call number two, call number three, call number four, call number five.
有时——我可以给你看文字记录——第一号电话、第二号电话、第三号电话、第四号电话、第五号电话。
10:05, 5:11, 5:20.
10:05、5:11、5:20。
300 telephone calls he has made.
他已经打了300个电话。
What about these, what about that?
这些呢，那个呢？
He just annoyed you into it?
他只是惹你生气了？
Hemant Lakhani Not annoyed, but he would not leave me alone.
Hemant Lakhani 并不生气，但他不会丢下我不管。
Did you ever get suspicious that he was so persistent?
你有没有怀疑过他如此执着？
Yes.
是的。
Sarah Koenig Did you want him to like you?
Sarah Koenig 你想让他喜欢你吗？
Well, I don't think anybody who dislikes me in my life.
好吧，我认为我的生活中没有人不喜欢我。
Nobody has disliked me.
没有人不喜欢我。
Klingeman, his attorney, says Lakhani didn't seem at all bothered by the phone calls and attention.
他的律师克林格曼表示，拉卡尼似乎根本没有被电话和关注所困扰。
In fact, he says, his reaction was just the opposite.
事实上，他说，他的反应恰恰相反。
Fundamentally, what drove him was a desire to be part of something.
从根本上来说，驱动他的动力是渴望成为某件事的一部分。
He had failed in business and, to a great extent, he had failed in life.
他在生意上失败了，在很大程度上，他在生活中也失败了。
He's an old man.
他是个老人了。
And this was his chance to be part of something.
这是他参与某件事的机会。
He enjoyed the flattery and the attention of the informant and he enjoyed the phone calls, he enjoyed the globetrotting, and I think that more than anything else is what drove him.
他喜欢线人的奉承和关注，喜欢打电话，喜欢环游世界，我认为这才是驱动他前进的最重要因素。
Here was someone coming to Mr. Lakhani, a sad sack, Willy Loman of a character and saying, you're a big boss, you're a big man, you have connections.
有人来到拉卡尼先生面前，他是一个悲伤的人，威利·洛曼这样的人物，他说，你是个大老板，你是个大人物，你有关系。
Help me.
帮我。
And Mr. Lakhani has never heard this from anyone before.
拉卡尼先生以前从未从任何人那里听到过这样的说法。
But was Lakhani just a sad sack?
但拉卡尼只是一个可悲的人吗？
It's true, a lot of the business deals Lakhani bragged about seem like complete fabrications.
确实，拉卡尼吹嘘的许多商业交易看起来完全是捏造的。
But some of them were real.
但其中一些是真实的。
And his wife, Kusum, showed me photos proving that he moved in some pretty fancy circles.
他的妻子库苏姆向我展示了照片，证明他在一些非常奇特的圈子里活动过。
This is a photo of prince of Abu Dhabi who came to play polo with Prince Charles, and we visited the grounds.
这是一张阿布扎比王子来与查尔斯王子打马球的照片，我们参观了场地。
Prince Charles is shaking hands with my husband, and I am standing by on the side.
查尔斯王子正在和我的丈夫握手，我站在一旁。
But then again, there are so many odd moments in the FBI tapes, moments where Lakhani just seems out of his element.
但话又说回来，联邦调查局的录音中有很多奇怪的时刻，拉卡尼似乎不合时宜。
One minute he'd be talking about weapons systems, the next he'd be offering a diamond deal or scrap metal, anything.
前一分钟他还在谈论武器系统，下一分钟他就会提供钻石交易或废金属，任何东西。
Here's an exchange where Lakhani is weirdly candid about what he thought his first meeting with Rehman was going to be about.
在这次交流中，拉卡尼出奇地坦率地讲述了他与雷曼的第一次会面的内容。
Lakhani is speaking first here.
拉卡尼首先在这里发言。
When you first met me, did you have any idea that you will be doing this?
当你第一次见到我的时候，你有想过你会这样做吗？
How did this happen?
这是怎么发生的？
Yes, I was looking for a serious person.
是的，我一直在寻找一个认真的人。
After meeting with you, I felt that this could also be done.
和你见面之后，我觉得这也是可以做到的。
OK, to be honest, my idea was this: you told me there are so many Mexican people and they eat a lot of mangoes.
好吧，说实话，我的想法是这样的：你告诉我有很多墨西哥人，他们吃很多芒果。
Do you remember the mangoes from India?
你还记得来自印度的芒果吗？
It was my idea to import mangoes from India.
我的想法是从印度进口芒果。
I'm telling the truth.
我说的是实话。
Mangoes.
芒果。
And then, without missing a beat, Lakhani goes right back to discussing weapons.
然后，拉卡尼毫不犹豫地回到讨论武器上。
Then there's this exchange about Indian sweets.
然后是关于印度糖果的交流。
To me, he seems like an insecure man here, desperate to please.
对我来说，他在这里就像一个没有安全感的人，渴望取悦别人。
Again, Lakhani speaks first and he mentions Kusum, his wife.
拉卡尼再次首先发言，他提到了他的妻子库苏姆。
Eat the sweets I brought for you, they are very high class.
吃我给你带来的糖果吧，它们非常高级。
Try this one.
试试这个。
Wow.
哇。
Lakhani's Translator Is it your favorite one?
Lakhani 的翻译是你最喜欢的吗？
Yes, I like it very much.
是的，我非常喜欢它。
Lakhani's Translator Yes, it is balushahi.
拉卡尼的翻译 是的，是巴卢沙希。
This is my favorite.
这是我最喜欢的。
Lakhani's Translator Kusum told me you would like it.
拉卡尼的翻译库苏姆告诉我你会喜欢的。
Yes, I like it most.
是的，我最喜欢它。
Lakhani's Translator Believe me, Kusum said you would like balushahi.
拉卡尼的翻译 相信我，库苏姆说你会喜欢巴卢沙希。
Yes.
是的。
Lakhani's Translator She was saying this sweet is very good, even I did not know it.
Lakhani的翻译她说这个甜品很好吃，连我自己都不知道。
Kusum was saying so.
库苏姆是这么说的。
I will call her right now and tell her that you like balushahi.
我现在就打电话给她，告诉她你喜欢巴卢沙希。
So she was right.
所以她是对的。
Rehman's Translator Will you eat some?
雷曼的翻译 你吃点吗？
Yes, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
Kusum was saying you will like it.
库苏姆说你会喜欢的。
Is it true?
这是真的吗？
Yes.
是的。
Lakhani's Translator Oh, this is very tasty.
拉卡尼的翻译哦，这个很好吃。
But ask US Attorney Chris Christie about it, and it turns out he reads the scene completely differently.
但向美国检察官克里斯·克里斯蒂询问此事，结果发现他对这一场景的解读完全不同。
I absolutely agree with your description of him in that way, but I take something completely different from it.
我绝对同意你对他的描述，但我的看法却完全不同。
I don't think that he's this inane guy, which is what I'm getting from you.
我不认为他是个愚蠢的人，这就是我从你那里得到的信息。
This is an idiot sitting there talking about the sweets he got and why doesn't he get to the missile deal already?
这是一个白痴坐在那里谈论他得到的糖果，为什么他还没有达成导弹协议？
But the fact of the matter is Lakhani's trying to be a nice guy, a good guy.
但事实是拉卡尼试图成为一个好人，一个好人。
He's trying to get on this guy's good side no matter what he has to do to do it because he wants to make the deal.
无论他必须做什么，他都会努力站在这个人的一边，因为他想达成这笔交易。
This is the conduct of a person who's a salesman.
这是一个推销员的行为。
I don't care what you're selling, whether it's a used car, women's clothing, or a missile.
我不在乎你卖什么，无论是二手车、女装还是导弹。
The deal is to get a customer who's willing to buy, and who buys from you.
交易的目的是吸引愿意购买并且向您购买产品的客户。
And he thinks, this guy could go to somebody else if he gets frustrated with me so I'm going to try to keep him close.
他认为，如果这个人对我感到沮丧，他可能会去找其他人，所以我会尽力与他保持亲密关系。
And that's the way I view that interaction.
这就是我看待这种互动的方式。
Coming up, in the words of the old saying, keep your friends close, keep your shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile closer.
接下来，用一句老话来说，让你的朋友靠近，让你的肩扛式地对空导弹靠近。
Our story about Hemant Lakhani continues in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续时，我们关于赫曼特·拉卡尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 的故事将在芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台继续播出。
This is American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today, we're devoting our whole show to the story of the government prosecution of Hemant Lakhani on terrorism-related charges.
今天，我们的整个节目主要讲述政府因恐怖主义相关指控起诉赫曼特·拉哈尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 的故事。
For nearly two years, Lakhani spoke with government informant Mohammed Habib Rehman.
近两年来，拉卡尼与政府线人穆罕默德·哈比卜·雷曼进行了交谈。
Again, here's Petra Bartosiewicz.
佩特拉·巴托谢维奇（Petra Bartosiewicz）再次报道。
It did seem Lakhani would say anything to please Rehman.
看来拉卡尼确实会说任何话来取悦雷曼。
Whatever item Rehman requested, anti-aircraft weapons, landmines, radioactive suitcase bombs, his answer was always the same: it is available.
无论雷曼要求什么物品，防空武器、地雷、放射性手提箱炸弹，他的回答总是一样的：可以提供。
Here's Lakhani in the second meeting promising to get Rehman Russian-made Igla missiles, the surface-to-air, shoulder-fired kind.
拉哈尼在第二次会议上承诺获得雷赫曼俄罗斯制造的 Igla 导弹，一种地对空、肩扛式导弹。
How many do you want?
你想要几个？
Rehman's Translator About 200.
雷曼的翻译大约200。
It will be done.
它将完成。
It will be arranged immediately.
会立即安排。
I will go there on Sunday.
我周日会去那里。
The delivery will be ready on Monday.
交货将于周一准备好。
He says this on April 25, 2002, that he'll deliver on Monday.
他于 2002 年 4 月 25 日如此表示，他将在周一交付。
But the truth is Lakhani can't deliver on Monday and he can't deliver for the next year.
但事实是拉卡尼无法在周一交付，也无法在明年交付。
Lakhani's problem isn't just that he can't deliver the missile, it's that he can't actually acquire one.
拉卡尼的问题不仅在于他无法交付导弹，还在于他无法真正获得一枚导弹。
So even though he's promising Rehman the deal is nearly done, in fact there is no deal.
因此，尽管他向雷曼承诺交易即将完成，但事实上并没有达成任何协议。
Month after month after month, he puts Rehman off and Rehman, understandably, is getting impatient.
月复一月，他对雷曼感到厌烦，而雷曼变得不耐烦，这是可以理解的。
Here's Lakhani's attorney, Henry Klingeman, again.
这是拉卡尼的律师亨利·克林格曼的报道。
In terms of the chronology, between January, 2002 and August of 2003, there's a pattern.
从时间顺序来看，2002年1月到2003年8月之间有一个规律。
And there's no point in going conversation by conversation because the conversations are all the same.
逐个对话是没有意义的，因为对话都是一样的。
The informant says, what's happening?
举报人说，这是怎么回事？
Lakhani says the deal is done.
拉卡尼表示交易已经完成。
The informant says, well, where's the missile?
线人说，那么，导弹在哪里？
Lakhani says, it'll be here any day.
拉卡尼说，它随时都会在这里。
And the missile never shows up and the informant calls back two days later and says, well, what's happening?
导弹从未出现，两天后线人回电说，发生了什么事？
Lakhani says, the deal is done.
拉卡尼说，交易完成了。
The informant says, well, where's the missile?
线人说，那么，导弹在哪里？
Lakhani says, it will be here any day.
拉卡尼说，它随时都会在这里。
And then it just goes on and on and on.
然后它就这样一直持续下去。
Lakhani's one, and possibly only, weapons contact with the Ukrainian state-controlled arms manufacturer, a company called Uker Spitz Export.
拉卡尼与乌克兰国家控制的武器制造商（一家名为 Uker Spitz Export 的公司）进行了一次、也可能是唯一一次武器接触。
This was the company that Lakhani got the armored personnel carriers from in the Angola deal.
这就是拉卡尼在安哥拉交易中获得装甲运兵车的公司。
He showed Rehman their weapons brochures, but to buy missiles from them, he'd need special government paperwork, which he didn't have.
他向雷赫曼展示了他们的武器手册，但要从他们那里购买导弹，他需要特殊的政府文件，但他没有。
So he started asking around in some shadier corners of the former Soviet republics.
于是他开始在前苏联加盟共和国的一些阴暗角落打听。
Apparently, he wasn't so subtle about it because soon enough, the FSB, the Russian Security Service, caught wind of it and started tracking Lakhani.
显然，他对此并没有那么微妙，因为很快，俄罗斯联邦安全局（FSB）发现了这一消息并开始追踪拉卡尼。
Here's Chris Christie.
这是克里斯·克里斯蒂。
At some point, Russian law enforcement-- the FSB contacted the FBI to let them know that they knew Lakhani was contacting legitimate sources in the old Soviet Union in an attempt to buy these missiles.
在某个时候，俄罗斯执法部门——联邦安全局联系了联邦调查局，让他们知道拉卡尼正在联系前苏联的合法消息来源，试图购买这些导弹。
Well, I know at that point for me, the light bulb really went on and I said, this guy's for real.
好吧，我知道那一刻对我来说，灯泡真的亮了，我说，这家伙是真的。
He knew the right people to call.
他知道该打电话给合适的人。
Still, Lakhani couldn't seem to get one.
尽管如此，拉卡尼似乎还是没能得到一个。
Months passed.
几个月过去了。
The US government had given Lakhani a buyer, but they were getting tired of waiting for him to drum up a seller.
美国政府已经给了拉卡尼一个买家，但他们厌倦了等待他招揽卖家。
If only he'd find a missile, their case could be done.
只要他能找到一枚导弹，他们的案子就可以完成。
So they get him a missile.
所以他们给了他一枚导弹。
They cook up a plan with the Russians.
他们与俄罗斯人制定了一个计划。
FSB agents posing as arms dealers sell Lakhani a dummy missile, real in every respect except that it had no munitions.
联邦安全局特工冒充军火商向拉卡尼出售一枚假导弹，除了没有弹药外，该导弹在各方面都是真实的。
Even an expert would have been fooled.
即使是专家也会被愚弄。
Lakhani falls for it.
拉卡尼上当了。
He even watches the missile being loaded onto a ship in Saint Petersburg that he thinks will carry it to the US.
他甚至亲眼目睹了导弹被装载到圣彼得堡的一艘船上，他认为这艘船将把它运往美国。
What he didn't know is that the American government had spirited the phony missile onto an airplane.
他不知道的是，美国政府已将这枚假导弹偷偷运到了一架飞机上。
They eventually delivered it to Rehman's hotel room in Newark, in full view of the hidden FBI camera.
他们最终将其运送到雷曼位于纽瓦克的酒店房间，在隐藏的联邦调查局摄像机的全部视野下。
When Lakhani saw it there, he was shocked.
当拉卡尼看到那里时，他感到震惊。
Not that it had arrived in New Jersey, but that it was luxuriating in a suite at the Gateway Hilton.
并不是说它已经抵达新泽西州，而是说它正在盖特威希尔顿酒店的一间豪华套房里。
What were you expecting when you went to the hotel?
当你去酒店的时候你在期待什么？
I was expecting to discuss everything, that's all.
我本想讨论一切，仅此而已。
I never thought that the missile would be sitting on the sofa.
我没想到导弹会坐在沙发上。
[LAUGHING] Hemant Lakhani Yeah, that's it.
[笑] Hemant Lakhani 是的，就是这样。
I see the box lying exactly in the middle of the sofa, the big one.
我看到那个盒子就放在沙发的正中央，那个大盒子。
Not the two side ones, but the middle one.
不是两边的，是中间的。
I said, he is a guest of you?
我说，他是你的客人吗？
And I'm surprised, I told him, how did it come?
我很惊讶，我告诉他，这是怎么来的？
He said, Lakhani, I told you.
他说，拉卡尼，我告诉过你了。
In America you can smuggle anything.
在美国你可以走私任何东西。
So I said, you are a very powerful man, Mr. Hajji.
所以我说，哈吉先生，你是一个非常有权力的人。
That's what I told him.
我就是这么告诉他的。
And then he wanted to open it.
然后他想打开它。
I said, no, don't open it because I'm scared because I don't know how to even open.
我说，不，不要打开它，因为我很害怕，因为我什至不知道如何打开。
Which is right side or wrong side?
哪一边是正确的一边还是错误的一边？
I don't know nothing about it.
我对此一无所知。
Here's the video of that moment.
这是那一刻的视频。
Lakhani speaks first.
拉卡尼首先发言。
That is so wonderful.
那真是太美妙了。
Allah fulfilled your wish.
安拉满足了你的愿望。
The stuff arrived here.
东西到了这里。
What a big thing.
多么大的事情啊。
Please sit down.
请坐。
Lakhani's Translator This box, how it arrive here?
拉卡尼的翻译器 这个盒子，它是怎么到达这里的？
Yes, it is here.
是的，就在这里。
Boss, what did I tell you?
老板，我告诉你什么了？
I told you that you can smuggle anything into America.
我告诉过你，你可以将任何东西走私到美国。
Didn't I tell you?
我没告诉过你吗？
Yes, the same box.
是的，同一个盒子。
Rehman's Translator That's right, the same box.
雷曼的翻译 没错，同一个盒子。
Yes, I raise my hands.
是的，我举起双手。
I can't believe what we have done.
我不敢相信我们所做的一切。
Realizing the deal is almost finished, Lakhani becomes so delighted, he leans over the box holding the missile, puts both his hands over his head, and shakes them around as if he's trying to amuse a newborn baby.
意识到交易即将完成后，拉卡尼变得非常高兴，他靠在装有导弹的盒子上，将双手举在头上，然后摇晃着双手，就像在逗新生婴儿一样。
A few things seem clear here.
这里有几件事似乎很清楚。
First of all, he doesn't know the first thing about how this missile works, not even which end is the shooting end.
首先，他首先不知道这种导弹的工作原理，甚至不知道哪一端是发射端。
And it seems obvious he's never done anything like this before.
很明显他以前从未做过这样的事情。
He makes a few illegal weapons sale faux pas even your mother wouldn't make.
他犯了一些非法武器销售失礼，连你妈妈都不会犯。
Earlier the deal, he'd offered to pay for the missile with a personal check.
此前，他曾提出用个人支票支付导弹费用。
Later, he hand-wrote an IOU for it to a Russian agent using his full name, Hemant Shantalil Lakhani.
后来，他用自己的全名赫曼特·尚塔里尔·拉卡尼 (Hemant Shantalil Lakhani) 向一名俄罗斯特工亲手写了一张欠条。
But here's my favorite.
但这是我最喜欢的。
Rehman is first here.
雷曼是第一个来的。
Boss, here is another thing.
老板，还有一件事。
It has a serial number.
它有一个序列号。
What does it mean?
这是什么意思？
Rehman's Translator This is the serial number, and we don't need it.
Rehman 的翻译器 这是序列号，我们不需要它。
It can be caught.
它可以被抓住。
Rehman's Translator It can be tracked from the serial number.
Rehman's Translator 从序列号可以追踪到。
So you don't need it?
所以你不需要它？
Rehman's Translator Right.
雷曼的翻译是对的。
What's also clear, though, is that Lakhani knows perfectly well what Rehman wants to do with the missile.
不过，同样清楚的是，拉哈尼非常清楚雷曼想用导弹做什么。
They've pulled the curtain back from the hotel window and are holding up the missile as they survey the airplanes parked on the tarmac at Newark Airport.
他们拉开酒店窗户的窗帘，举起导弹，同时检查停在纽瓦克机场停机坪上的飞机。
Boss, from here, if four, five, or six planes fall, what will happen?
老大，从这里开始，如果有四架、五架、六架飞机坠落，会发生什么？
They will be badly shaken.
他们将会受到严重的动摇。
Rehman's Translator What will happen to their economy?
雷曼的翻译 他们的经济会发生什么变化？
If it happens 10 or 15 places simultaneously at the same time--
如果它同时发生在10或15个地方——
You mean different airports at the same time?
你的意思是同时在不同的机场？
The same time is very important.
同一时间非常重要。
They will think the war has started.
他们会认为战争已经开始了。
So he's putting on my shoulder and he says, look, now from here you can see the airport and we can shoot.
所以他靠在我的肩膀上说，看，现在从这里你可以看到机场，我们可以拍摄。
And he asks me, how many airports?
他问我，有多少个机场？
I said, look, I only know JFK, that's all.
我说，你看，我只知道肯尼迪，仅此而已。
I don't know, I've never dealt within America, so I can't tell you anything.
我不知道，我从来没有在美国交易过，所以我不能告诉你任何事情。
He says, no no, 10 airport.
他说，不，不，10机场。
And what is the best time?
最好的时间是什么时候？
I said, the best time is the busiest time is either on Monday or Friday.
我说，最好的时间就是最忙的时间，要么是周一，要么是周五。
That's all I told him.
这就是我告诉他的一切。
Which is the busiest time, not the best time.
这是最忙的时间，而不是最好的时间。
Busiest time.
最忙的时候。
Like Sunday morning.
就像周日早上一样。
Lakhani's Translator In the morning, around 10:00 or 10:15 or 10:20 when all are still sleeping or whatever.
Lakhani 的翻译 早上，大约 10:00 或 10:15 或 10:20，当所有人还在睡觉或其他什么时候。
Yes, Monday or Friday.
是的，周一或周五。
Sarah Koenig You've got a missile on your shoulder-- or he does, I don't know.
莎拉·科尼格：你肩上扛着一枚导弹——或者他肩上扛着一枚导弹，我不知道。
He does.
他做到了。
Sarah Koenig He does, OK.
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig） 他确实这么做了，好吧。
And you're looking at airplanes and he's saying, when's the busiest time?
当你看着飞机时，他说，什么时候是最繁忙的时间？
And he's talking clearly about shooting down a commercial airplane.
他清楚地谈论击落一架商用飞机。
Who started this?
这是谁开始的？
September 17, he said that I'm buying this for the purpose of shooting civilian airlines.
9月17日，他说我买这个是为了拍民用航空。
What did you think of this purpose?
您对这个目的有何看法？
Did you think that was a good idea?
你认为这是个好主意吗？
Sitting in jail, Lakhani went on to say that he thought the weapons were to be used in Africa in tribal skirmishes in Kenya or Nigeria or wherever, but even his own lawyer told us he didn't buy that one.
坐在监狱里的拉卡尼继续说，他认为这些武器将用于非洲肯尼亚、尼日利亚或其他地方的部落冲突，但就连他自己的律师也告诉我们，他没有购买那把武器。
The tape of this last meeting on August 12, 2003 just peters out.
2003 年 8 月 12 日最后一次会议的录音刚刚消失。
That's because at a certain point, Rehman leaves the room and six federal agents come in and arrest Lakhani.
这是因为在某个时刻，雷曼离开了房间，六名联邦特工进来逮捕了拉卡尼。
Once he understands the meetings are on tape, he pretty much confesses, saying something like, I'm sorry.
一旦他知道会议被录音，他就几乎承认了，说了一些类似“对不起”之类的话。
You know everything.
你什么都知道。
But even then, Lakhani still didn't quite comprehend what was happening.
但即便如此，拉卡尼仍然不太明白发生了什么。
Kusum told me when she visited her husband in jail right after his arrest, he asked her where everyone else was, why Rehman wasn't sharing a cell with him.
库苏姆告诉我，当她丈夫被捕后，她去监狱探望他时，他问她其他人都在哪里，为什么雷曼不与他同住一间牢房。
And that's when she told him.
就在那时她告诉了他。
There is no one else.
没有其他人了。
You're it.
你就是它。
She said Lakhani was dumbfounded.
她说拉卡尼目瞪口呆。
He'd bought a fake missile from a fake arms dealer and delivered it to a fake terrorist.
他从一个假军火商那里买了一枚假导弹，然后把它交给了一个假恐怖分子。
Every part of the crime had been supplied to him by the US government.
犯罪的每一部分都是美国政府向他提供的。
That was almost two years ago.
那是差不多两年前的事了。
Lakhani's case went to trial in January this year.
拉卡尼的案件于今年一月开庭审理。
The only defense available to him was entrapment, that if the government hadn't set him up, he would have never supplied a missile to a terrorist group or anyone else.
他唯一可用的防御手段就是诱捕，如果政府没有陷害他，他就永远不会向恐怖组织或其他任何人提供导弹。
At trial, the state would have to prove that Lakhani was ready and willing to do the deal, or that he was able to actually get the missile.
在审判中，该州必须证明拉卡尼已准备好并愿意进行这笔交易，或者他能够真正获得导弹。
Lakhani's lawyer told jurors that although he may be loathsome and an idiot, of the requirements, was only willing.
拉卡尼的律师告诉陪审员，尽管他可能很令人厌恶而且是个白痴，但对于这些要求，他只是愿意。
Not ready, and certainly not able.
还没有准备好，当然也没有能力。
Here's Lakhani's lawyer, Henry Klingeman.
这是拉卡尼的律师亨利·克林格曼。
The entrapment defense is designed for people who are morally guilty, to be legally not guilty.
诱捕辩护是为那些在道德上有罪但在法律上无罪的人而设计的。
In terms of a legal defense, this was a great defense on September 10 when cooler heads might have prevailed, because he was clearly entrapped.
就法律辩护而言，这是 9 月 10 日的一次很好的辩护，当时冷静的头脑可能会占上风，因为他显然被困住了。
Unfortunately for Lakhani, it was well past September 11, and what jurors saw was a man talking enthusiastically about shooting down airplanes.
对拉卡尼来说不幸的是，时间已经过去了 9 月 11 日，陪审员看到的是一名男子热情地谈论击落飞机。
But the government's best weapon at the trial was the weapon itself.
但政府在审判中最好的武器就是武器本身。
On the first day, FBI agents carried in a wooden box shaped like a coffin and set it down with a thud in front of the jury.
第一天，联邦调查局探员搬进一个棺材形状的木箱，“砰”地一声放在陪审团面前。
Then the prosecutor opened the box and piece by piece it took out the missile, a long, green steel tube.
然后检察官打开盒子，一块一块取出了导弹，一根长长的绿色钢管。
Donna, a bank executive, was one of the jurors.
银行高管唐娜是陪审员之一。
She asked that we not use her last name.
她要求我们不要使用她的姓氏。
I am known as juror number six from the Lakhani trial that took place in Newark, New Jersey.
在新泽西州纽瓦克进行的拉卡尼案审判中，我被称为六号陪审员。
I listened very intently to both sides of the argument and day number one, I hadn't passed judgment.
我非常专心地听了双方的争论，第一天，我还没有做出判断。
I was just very focused on making sure I took as many notes and not to let my emotions sway.
我只是非常专注于确保我记下了尽可能多的笔记，并且不让自己的情绪左右。
Because as soon as I started to hear the bad things being said about America and Americans-- and I'm very patriotic-- they upset me.
因为一旦我开始听到有关美国和美国人的坏话——我非常爱国——他们就让我感到不安。
When I saw the missile being brought into the courtroom, they took it out and they passed it by the jurors, I cringed.
当我看到导弹被带进法庭，他们把它拿出来并通过陪审员时，我感到畏缩。
Every time I saw the box, I cringed.
每次看到这个盒子我就心疼。
Donna soon found the evidence overwhelming.
唐娜很快就发现了压倒性的证据。
So did everybody else.
其他人也是如此。
Everybody except one person.
除了一个人之外的所有人。
My name is Gussie Burnett, I'm 65 years old, I work for Newark Public Schools and I'm a librarian.
我叫 Gussie Burnett，今年 65 岁，在纽瓦克公立学校工作，是一名图书管理员。
Burnett, juror number nine, was the lone holdout.
第九号陪审员伯内特是唯一坚持不懈的人。
As far as I'm concerned, it was entrapment if he didn't actually do anything.
就我而言，如果他实际上什么也没做，那就是被困住了。
Some of the other jurors seem to think that Lakhani actually could have done this, that he could have gotten that missile if he tried long enough.
其他一些陪审员似乎认为拉卡尼实际上可以做到这一点，如果他尝试足够长的时间，他就可以得到那枚导弹。
Did he try for 22 months and then get one, after offering all these millions of dollars and he couldn't get a missile?
他是否尝试了 22 个月，然后在提供了数百万美元后却无法获得一枚导弹？
No, he wasn't gonna never get no missile.
不，他永远不会得到导弹。
And they knew he wasn't gonna get one either, that's why they bought it and set it right there in his lap.
他们知道他也不会得到一个，这就是为什么他们买了它并把它放在他的腿上。
From day one, I just can't understand it.
从第一天起，我就无法理解。
They came in and they sit down and they says, this man's guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.
他们进来，坐下来，说，这个人有罪，有罪，有罪，有罪，有罪，有罪。
They didn't even think about it.
他们根本就没有考虑过。
Hey, wait a minute.
嘿，等一下。
Let's analyze these things, let's do them one by one.
这些事情我们来分析一下，一一去做。
For a few hours, Burnett held her ground.
几个小时以来，伯内特一直坚持自己的立场。
It didn't go so well.
进展不太顺利。
So I say, he's guilty, someone says, he's not guilty.
所以我说，他有罪，有人说，他无罪。
And I say, he's guilty because look at page 48.
我说，他有罪，因为看看第 48 页。
And then someone else would say, well look at page 52.
然后其他人会说，好吧，看看第 52 页。
So everyone trying to make themselves heard, voices started to rise so you could be heard over the crowd.
所以每个人都试图让自己的声音被听到，声音开始提高，这样你就可以在人群中被听到。
The juror who felt that he was not guilty I think felt overwhelmed by probably a good six, seven, eight jurors talking loudly at the same time, that actually turned into screaming to be heard.
我认为，认为自己无罪的陪审员可能会被六、七、八名陪审员同时大声说话而不知所措，这实际上变成了尖叫声。
It was probably very intimidating for her.
这对她来说可能是非常令人恐惧的。
Correct, because she was the only one that thought that he was not guilty.
没错，因为她是唯一一个认为他无罪的人。
This is how that happened.
事情就是这样发生的。
I just closed on a house in January, and everybody in the jury room knew it because the court was closed down on April 25, so I could go close on the house.
我在一月份刚刚关闭了一处房子，陪审团里的每个人都知道这一点，因为法院于 4 月 25 日关闭，所以我可以关闭房子。
So when we came back, I think we started deliberating on a Wednesday.
所以当我们回来时，我想我们在星期三开始商议。
And we got to one count, and I said to the man, not guilty and there ain't nobody gonna change my mind.
我们得到了一项指控，我对那个人说，无罪，没有人会改变我的想法。
And the jury foreman said if I didn't go along with them, I wouldn't see the inside of my house until December.
陪审团领班说，如果我不同意他们的话，我要到 12 月才能看到我房子的内部。
So I saw, what the hell.
所以我看到了，到底是什么。
He don't mean nothing to me.
他对我来说毫无意义。
This man guilty.
这个人有罪。
But I know it was wrong.
但我知道这是错误的。
It wasn't right for me to do the man like that.
我这样对待这个人是不对的。
It wasn't right.
这是不对的。
But it's over now.
但现在已经结束了。
Are you saying you regret your decision to find him guilty?
你是说你后悔判定他有罪的决定吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, I really do.
是的，我真的这么做。
Because as far as I'm concerned, the man was entrapped.
因为就我而言，那个人被困住了。
I should have held out.
我应该坚持下去。
So the only person who bought Lakhani's defense caved in the jury room.
因此，唯一支持拉卡尼辩护的人在陪审团会议室里屈服了。
It took just over seven hours.
只用了七个多小时。
The jury found him guilty.
陪审团判定他有罪。
In the end, the government spent almost two years and hundreds of thousands of dollars trapping a man who didn't seem to have any connection to any real terrorists or terrorist sympathizers.
最终，政府花了近两年的时间和数十万美元困住了一个似乎与任何真正的恐怖分子或恐怖分子同情者没有任何联系的人。
Chris Christie says it's his main regret about the case, that Lakhani didn't lead them to any other suspects.
克里斯·克里斯蒂表示，他对此案最遗憾的是拉卡尼没有带领他们找到任何其他嫌疑人。
We asked Christie if maybe the problem wasn't that Lakhani refused to talk but that he simply didn't know anything.
我们问克里斯蒂，问题是否不是拉卡尼拒绝说话，而是他什么都不知道。
I guess it's possible, Christie said.
“我想这是可能的，”克里斯蒂说。
Even so, he's happy with the outcome because it proves that law enforcement is meeting its new mandate.
即便如此，他对结果还是很满意，因为这证明执法部门正在履行新的职责。
What Lakhani is emblematic of in the war on terrorism is, in the biggest way, the new American approach to law enforcement in the area of terrorism.
拉卡尼在反恐战争中最大的象征是美国在恐怖主义领域执法的新方法。
We're going to try to catch people before they act.
我们将尽力在人们采取行动之前将其抓获。
But this very policy, as good as it sounds, is what worries people like Henry Klingeman.
但这项政策，尽管听起来不错，却让像亨利·克林格曼这样的人感到担忧。
You could probably go to the Middle East and collar a random person on the street and ask them what they think of America and ask them what they would do if they were given the ability to send missiles to the United States, and you could probably find millions of people, sadly, who would say, I would do it in a heartbeat.
你可能会去中东，在街上随机找一个人，问他们对美国的看法，问他们如果有能力向美国发射导弹，他们会做什么，你可能会发现数百万人，可悲的是，他们会说，我会立刻这么做。
You wouldn't even have to pay me and I would do it.
你甚至不需要付钱给我，我就会这么做。
Now, on the government's theory, we'd arrest all those people because they are willing to participate in this type of activity.
现在，根据政府的理论，我们会逮捕所有这些人，因为他们愿意参与此类活动。
And we'd say, well, we stopped them before they were able to actually do it.
我们会说，好吧，我们在他们能够真正做到这一点之前阻止了他们。
But those people may not be capable of getting involved in Jihad, whoever they are on the streets of Ramallah or the streets of Kabul or wherever.
但这些人可能没有能力参与圣战，无论他们是谁在拉马拉或喀布尔的街道或任何地方。
But Mr. Lakhani was not in that position and was not inclined to do this type of thing.
但拉卡尼先生并不处于那个位置，也不愿意做这种事。
He was all too willing to do it when asked, but he was never going to do it until he was asked.
当被要求时他非常愿意这样做，但除非有人要求他，否则他永远不会这样做。
And no one was going to ask him, because no real terrorist would ever go to Mr. Lakhani and ask him for anything.
没有人会问他，因为没有真正的恐怖分子会去找拉卡尼先生索要任何东西。
So if the government is going to go out and apprehend people before they even think about this stuff, or maybe after they think about it before they ever do anything about it, then we might as well put barbed wire around the entire Middle East, because that's really the logical conclusion on that policy.
因此，如果政府要在人们考虑这些事情之前就出去逮捕他们，或者也许在他们考虑之后才采取任何行动，那么我们不妨在整个中东周围设置铁丝网，因为这确实是该政策的合乎逻辑的结论。
Ask Christie about this and he says what might have been in Lakhani's case, whether he could have ever gotten the missile, isn't even relevant.
向克里斯蒂询问此事，他说拉卡尼的情况可能是什么，他是否可以获得导弹，甚至都不相关。
You're saying that he's a person who facilitates terrorist activity.
你说他是一个为恐怖活动提供便利的人。
But actually, he's a person who potentially might have facilitated.
但实际上，他是一个有可能提供便利的人。
I mean, the fact is there actually wasn't a terrorist group, there wasn't a missile, he didn't do this deal.
我的意思是，事实是实际上没有恐怖组织，没有导弹，他没有做这笔交易。
So is the question-- I guess you see him as someone who really would have been approached by a terrorist.
问题也是如此——我想你认为他真的会被恐怖分子接近。
I'm not sure where the evidence is for that.
我不确定证据在哪里。
How do you make that argument, really?
真的，你如何提出这个论点？
It seems like it's all speculation to say, he might have turned into a bad guy.
看来一切都是猜测，他可能变成了坏人。
No, I disagree with you.
不，我不同意你的观点。
He was a bad guy.
他是个坏人。
Once you find someone who is that, basically, amoral, then whether or not he was actually able to do it, that debate-- which I have one opinion of and the defense has another opinion of and maybe you have a slightly different opinion-- who cares?
一旦你找到一个基本上不道德的人，那么他是否真的能够做到这一点，这场辩论——我对此有一种看法，辩方有另一种看法，也许你有稍微不同的看法——谁在乎呢？
I mean, at the end, who cares?
我的意思是，到最后，谁在乎呢？
I don't have a crystal ball and I don't know, if this had fallen apart, what Hemant Lakhani would have done next.
我没有水晶球，我不知道如果一切都崩溃了，赫曼特·拉卡尼接下来会做什么。
So the question is, confronted with those realities as American law enforcement, what we do?
所以问题是，面对美国执法部门的这些现实，我们该怎么办？
Do we ignore it because we say, maybe he could, maybe he couldn't?
我们是否会因为说“也许他可以，也许他不能”而忽略它？
Let's see, let's see if he does.
让我们看看，让我们看看他是否这样做。
I'm just not willing to take that chance, and I think most Americans would say the same thing.
我只是不愿意冒这个机会，我想大多数美国人也会说同样的话。
Hemant Lakhani was willing to sell missiles to a person he believed to be a terrorist, who expressly said he was going to use them to kill innocent people.
赫曼特·拉卡尼（Hemant Lakhani）愿意向一个他认为是恐怖分子的人出售导弹，而该人明确表示他将用导弹杀死无辜者。
And so there are good people and bad people.
所以有好人也有坏人。
Bad people do bad things.
坏人做坏事。
Bad people have to be punished.
坏人就必须受到惩罚。
These are simple truths.
这些都是简单的事实。
Bad people must be punished.
坏人必须受到惩罚。
And so, he's not just a guy with four beers in him at the corner bar who says, if I could get a missile and I'd sell it to whoever if I could make a buck, that's not who we're talking about here.
所以，他不仅仅是一个在街角酒吧里喝着四瓶啤酒的人，他说，如果我能得到一枚导弹，如果我能赚钱，我会把它卖给任何人，这不是我们在这里谈论的人。
So let's not minimize him either.
所以我们也不要贬低他。
He's not Osama bin Laden, but let's not make him Elmer Fudd either.
他不是奥萨马·本·拉登，但我们也不要让他成为埃尔默·福德。
All I know is that he's not the kind of guy I want coming through Newark Airport.
我只知道他不是我想要通过纽瓦克机场来的那种人。
He's not the kind of guy I want in this country.
他不是我在这个国家想要的那种人。
That's the kind of guy I want in federal prison, and so that's where he's going to go.
这就是我想要在联邦监狱里关押的那种人，所以这就是他要去的地方。
And at the end, that's the success of the Lakhani case.
最后，这就是拉卡尼案的成功。
In Washington, the Lakhani case is seen as one of the most successful prosecutions in the War on Terror.
在华盛顿，拉卡尼案被视为反恐战争中最成功的起诉之一。
It was one of three cases the Justice Department cited in testimony before Congress when the Patriot Act came up for renewal as an example of proactive, preemptive prosecution, which is basically designed to catch terrorists and the people who give them money and help before they actually do anything.
这是司法部在国会作证时引用的三个案例之一，当时《爱国者法案》需要更新，作为主动、先发制人的起诉的一个例子，该法案的基本目的是在恐怖分子和向他们提供金钱和帮助的人实际采取任何行动之前将其抓获。
Here's then-US Attorney General, John Ashcroft, giving a talk at the American Enterprise Institute a week after Lakhani's arrest.
拉卡尼被捕一周后，时任美国司法部长约翰·阿什克罗夫特在美国企业研究所发表演讲。
The title of his speech was "Securing Our Liberty: How America is Winning the War on Terror".
他演讲的标题是“保障我们的自由：美国如何赢得反恐战争”。
Hemant Lakhani is an alleged arms dealer in Great Britain who is charged with attempting to sell shoulder-fired missiles to terrorists for use against American targets.
赫曼特·拉卡尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 是一名英国军火商，被指控试图向恐怖分子出售肩扛式导弹，用于攻击美国目标。
The Lakhani investigation would not have been possible had American, Russian, and other foreign intelligence and law enforcement agencies not been able to coordinate and communicate the intelligence they had gained from various investigative tools.
如果美国、俄罗斯和其他外国情报和执法机构无法协调和传达从各种调查工具中获得的情报，拉卡尼的调查就不可能进行。
But what's so hard to figure out is whether the government's methods are actually working.
但很难弄清楚政府的方法是否真的有效。
President Bush said recently that 400 people have been charged with terrorism-related crimes since the September 11 attacks, and that in over half of those cases, the defendants were convicted or pled guilty.
布什总统最近表示，自9月11日袭击事件以来，已有400人被指控犯有与恐怖主义有关的罪行，其中一半以上的案件被告被定罪或认罪。
But a recent investigation by the Washington Post , which spent six months examining almost every case, found that in reality, only 39 people, not 200, had been convicted of terrorism or national security-related crimes.
但《华盛顿邮报》最近进行的一项调查，花了六个月时间审查了几乎所有案件，发现实际上只有 39 人，而不是 200 人，被判犯有恐怖主义或与国家安全相关的罪行。
And only 14 were connected to Al-Qaeda.
只有 14 人与基地组织有联系。
Lakhani was counted as one of those 14.
拉卡尼被算作这 14 人之一。
Most of the cases involve people who maybe were suspects in terrorism investigations.
大多数案件涉及可能是恐怖主义调查嫌疑人的人。
But when the evidence didn't pan out, they were charged with some low-level offense, like overstaying a visa, and given a short prison sentence or just deported.
但当证据不成立时，他们被指控犯有一些轻罪，例如签证逾期居留，并被判处短期监禁或只是被驱逐出境。
In other words, the Patriot Act is good at generating a lot of cases like the Lakhani case, turning up suspicious people who may or may not have anything to do with terrorism.
换句话说，《爱国者法案》擅长制造大量像拉卡尼案这样的案件，找出可能与恐怖主义有任何关系或无关的可疑人物。
To be fair, these are the leads the government has, so these are the leads they pursue.
公平地说，这些是政府拥有的线索，所以这些也是他们追求的线索。
And for now, most people seem to be fine with that because they're scared.
目前，大多数人似乎对此并不介意，因为他们感到害怕。
Even Donna, the juror, who knew the Lakhani missile sale was all a fake set up by the government was still terrified by it.
就连明知道拉卡尼导弹销售都是政府捏造的假象的陪审员唐娜仍然感到恐惧。
Let's put it this way.
让我们这样说吧。
I'm starting to look at colleges with my daughter.
我开始和女儿一起考虑大学。
She's a junior in high school.
她是一名高中三年级学生。
I tell her, wherever we look, we're driving.
我告诉她，无论我们看向哪里，我们都在开车。
I won't fly.
我不会飞。
Because now I realize how easy it is to take down a commercial airliner.
因为现在我意识到击落一架商用客机是多么容易。
You hear about suicide bombers and people that just don't care.
你听说过自杀式炸弹袭击者和那些漠不关心的人。
Hopefully, my mind will change later on, but that box being wheeled into the courtroom is still too fresh in my mind.
希望我以后的想法会改变，但那个被推入法庭的盒子在我的脑海里仍然太新鲜了。
And you sit there and you think about innocent passengers losing their life and I won't fly.
当你坐在那里，想着无辜的乘客失去生命时，我就不会坐飞机了。
So has the Lakhani case make you feel more secure or more afraid?
那么拉卡尼案让你感到更安全还是更害怕呢？
In some respects, it makes me feel more afraid because now I'm really aware of people out there that try to do harm.
在某些方面，这让我感到更加害怕，因为现在我真的意识到外面有人试图造成伤害。
I feel secure with the FBI looking out for us, but unfortunately they're not going to be able to stop every terrorist or every accomplice trying to help terrorism.
我对联邦调查局的监视感到放心，但不幸的是，他们无法阻止每一个恐怖分子或每一个试图帮助恐怖主义的同谋。
That's the thing about the Lakhani case.
这就是拉卡尼案的情况。
Knowing its whole history makes you feel simultaneously comforted and afraid.
了解它的整个历史会让你同时感到安慰和恐惧。
Hemant Lakhani will be sentenced this summer.
赫曼特·拉卡尼 (Hemant Lakhani) 将于今年夏天被判刑。
He's 70, there's a good chance he'll spend the rest of his life in prison.
他已经70岁了，很可能会在监狱里度过余生。
Petra Bartosiewicz is a reporter in New York City.
佩特拉·巴托谢维奇 (Petra Bartosiewicz) 是纽约市的一名记者。
Our program is produced by Sarah Koenig and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Jane Feltes, and Lisa Pollak.
我们的节目由 Sarah Koenig 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Diane Cook、Jane Feltes 和 Lisa Pollak 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder, Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德，伊丽莎白·梅斯特负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Laura Bellows.
托德·巴赫曼 (Todd Bachmann) 和劳拉·贝洛斯 (Laura Bellows) 为制作提供帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org。
You know, you can download today's program in our archives at audible.com/thisamericanlife.
您知道，您可以在我们的档案库中下载今天的节目：audible.com/thisamericanlife。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who usually calls me by one of these names:
[资金来源] Torey Malatia 先生对 WBEZ 项目进行管理监督，他通常用以下名字之一称呼我：
Meal ticket, dupe, patsy.
饭票，骗子，可怜虫。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life .
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 我是艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。