27: The Cruelty of Children - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #27 | May 10, 2013 27: The Cruelty of Children Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 27 集 | 2013 年 5 月 10 日 27：儿童的残酷 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Different Voices From PRI, Public Radio International.
序言 来自国际公共广播电台 PRI 的不同声音。
From PRI, Public Radio.
来自公共广播电台 PRI。
From PRI, Public Radio.
来自公共广播电台 PRI。
Public Radio.
公共广播电台。
Public Radio International.
国际公共广播电台。
I was talking to a first-grader about libraries, and I suddenly found myself talking about bullies.
我正在和一个一年级学生谈论图书馆，突然发现自己在谈论欺凌行为。
That's the thing about the idea of the bullies, the idea is so powerful that it can derail any conversation and pull it towards its own orbit.
这就是欺凌者的想法，这个想法是如此强大，以至于它可以使任何谈话脱轨并将其拉向自己的轨道。
Here's how it happened.
事情是这样发生的。
We were on a school bus.
我们当时在校车上。
I was asking the first-grader what kinds of books he takes out from the library, and that was all it took.
我问一年级的学生他从图书馆拿出了哪些类型的书，仅此而已。
Suddenly he launches into this big thing.
突然他开始涉足这件大事。
This kid in our class, he's a bully, and he takes out bully books.
我们班这个孩子，他是一个恶霸，他还拿出恶霸书。
He takes out bully ones.
他除掉那些恶霸。
They teach you how to be meaner, to push people around and stuff.
他们教你如何变得更刻薄，如何左右别人等等。
There are books to teach you how to be mean?
有书可以教你如何变得刻薄吗？
Yeah.
是的。
And nice.
很好。
There's this one book that's called, bully, bully's are made for pushing around, and bullies make all the rules, and they be picking on nice kids.
有这样一本书，叫做《欺凌者》，欺凌者就是为了欺凌而生的，欺凌者制定了所有规则，他们欺负好孩子。
As far as I was able to determine later, talking with parents and teachers and consulting with books in print, there is no book.
据我后来与家长和老师交谈并查阅印刷书籍后确定，没有书。
There is no real book that corresponds to the book this first-grader thinks he saw the bully read.
没有一本真正的书与这位一年级学生认为他看到恶霸读过的书相对应。
And you know, it's a shame.
你知道，这是一种耻辱。
It was such a comforting thought.
这是一个令人欣慰的想法。
Why are people bullies?
为什么人们会欺负人？
Why are they so mean?
他们为什么这么刻薄？
Why do they push you sometimes, and take your change, and say nasty things?
为什么他们有时会逼迫你，拿走你的零钱，还说一些难听的话？
Maybe they're just getting it from a book.
也许他们只是从书上得到的。
I'm surprised.
我很惊讶。
Are you sure that that's what the book was about?
你确定这就是这本书的内容吗？
I can't believe somebody would write a book saying, here's how to be mean to other people.
我不敢相信有人会写一本书说，这是如何对其他人刻薄的。
Well, maybe the person who wrote it was probably a bully himself.
好吧，也许写这句话的人本身就是一个恶霸。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back for another week documenting stories of these United States using all the tools of radio storytelling-- documentaries, monologues, overheard conversations, found tapes, anything we can think of.
又一周，我们用广播讲故事的所有工具来记录这些美国的故事——纪录片、独白、无意中听到的对话、找到的磁带，以及我们能想到的任何东西。
And today we bring you three stories about the cruelty of children.
今天我们为您带来三个有关儿童虐待的故事。
Act one, writer David Sedaris explains why he made fun of sissy boys when he was one himself.
第一幕中，编剧大卫·塞达里斯解释了他自己小时候为何取笑娘娘腔的男孩。
Act two, children and a man trapped in a well.
第二幕，孩子们和一个男人被困在井里。
And act three, well, just stay with us and listen.
第三幕，好吧，和我们一起听。
Act one.
行动一。
David Sedaris is a regular contributor to our program.
David Sedaris 是我们项目的定期撰稿人。
His latest book is Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim.
他的最新著作是《用灯芯绒和牛仔布装扮你的家人》。
And this next story was recorded a few years ago at a fundraiser for the program Stories on Stage here in Chicago.
下一个故事是几年前在芝加哥舞台故事节目筹款会上录制的。
In this story, David Sedaris describes a web of meanness which he participates in, as a victim sometimes, and as a perpetrator sometimes.
在这个故事中，大卫·塞达里斯（David Sedaris）描述了他参与其中的卑鄙网络，有时作为受害者，有时作为加害者。
Quick warning-- some moments in the story might not be suitable for younger listeners.
快速警告——故事中的某些时刻可能不适合年轻听众。
These are things I'm working on for a new book, a collection of nonfiction stories.
这些是我正在为一本新书所做的事情，一本非小说类故事集。
When asked if they're true, I prefer to answer that they're true enough.
当被问及它们是否真实时，我更愿意回答它们足够真实。
The only thing you'll need to know in terms of this first story is that during the seventh and eighth grade, I normally spent my summers working at Dorothea Dix, a state mental hospital, and that by law, every homosexual must at some point write a variation of this exact story-- "I Like Guys."
关于第一个故事，你唯一需要知道的是，在七年级和八年级期间，我通常在多萝西娅·迪克斯（Dorothea Dix）州立精神病院工作，根据法律，每个同性恋者都必须在某个时候写下这个故事的变体——“我喜欢男人”。
Shortly before graduating the eighth grade, it was announced that, come fall, our county school system would adopt a policy of integration by way of forced busing.
八年级毕业前不久，宣布秋季到来时，我们县的学校系统将采取强制校车整合的政策。
My Spanish teacher broke the news in a way she hoped might lead us to a greater understanding of her beauty and generosity.
我的西班牙语老师以一种她希望能让我们更好地理解她的美丽和慷慨的方式透露了这个消息。
"I remember the time I was at the state fair, standing in line for a snow cone," she said, fingering the kiss curls that trained her squat, compact face.
“我记得有一次我在州博览会上，排队买雪糕，”她一边说，一边用手指抚摸着她那低矮、紧凑的脸庞上的吻状卷发。
"And a little colored girl ran up and tugged at my skirt, asking if she could touch my hair, 'Just once,' she said, 'just one time for luck.' Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but my hair means a lot to me."
“一个黑人小女孩跑过来拉我的裙子，问她是否可以摸我的头发，‘就一次，’她说，‘就一次，祝你好运。’现在，我不了解你们其他人的情况，但我的头发对我来说意义重大。”
The members of my class nodded to signify that their hair meant a lot to them, as well.
我班上的同学点点头，表示他们的头发对他们来说也很重要。
They inched forward in their seats, wondering where this story might be going.
他们在座位上慢慢前倾，想知道这个故事会走向何方。
Perhaps the little girl was holding a concealed razor blade.
也许这个小女孩拿着一把隐藏的剃须刀刀片。
Maybe she was one of the troublemakers out for fresh white scalp.
也许她是为了新鲜的白色头皮而惹麻烦的人之一。
I sat marveling at their naivete.
我坐在那儿，对他们的天真感到惊讶。
Like all her other antidotes, this woman's story was headed straight up her ass.
就像她所有其他的解药一样，这个女人的故事直接让她崩溃了。
"I checked to make sure she didn't have any candy on her hands, and then I bent down and let this colored girl touch my hair." The teacher's eyes assumed that dewy, faraway look she reserved for such Hallmark moments.
“我检查了一下，确保她手上没有糖果，然后我弯下腰，让这个黑人女孩摸我的头发。”老师的眼睛呈现出她为这种标志性时刻保留的水润而遥远的表情。
"Then this little fudge colored child put her hand on my cheek and said, 'Oh,' she said, 'I wish I could be white and pretty like you.'"
“然后这个软糖色的小孩子把手放在我的脸颊上说，‘哦，’她说，‘我希望我能像你一样又白又漂亮。’”
She paused, positioning herself on the edge of the desk as though she were posing for a portrait the government might use on a stamp commemorating gallantry.
她停了下来，站在桌子边缘，好像在摆姿势拍照，政府可能会在纪念英勇的邮票上使用。
"The thing to remember," she said, "is that more than anything in the world these people wish they were white."
“要记住的事情，”她说，“这些人最希望自己是白人，这是世界上最重要的事情。”
I just wasn't buying it.
我只是不买它。
This was the same teacher who, when announcing her pregnancy, said, "I just pray my first baby is a boy.
这位老师在宣布她怀孕时说：“我只是祈祷我的第一个孩子是个男孩。
I'll have a boy, and then, maybe later, I'll have a girl, because if you do it the other way around, there's a good chance the boy will turn out to be funny."
我会生一个男孩，然后，也许稍后，我会生一个女孩，因为如果你反过来做，这个男孩很有可能会变得很有趣。”
"Funny as in having no arms and legs?" I asked.
“有趣的是没有胳膊和腿吗？”我问。
"That," the teacher said, "is far from funny.
“那，”老师说，“一点也不好笑。
That is tragic.
那是悲剧性的。
And you, sir, should have your lips sewn shut for saying such an ugly thing.
先生，你应该因为说出如此难听的话而被封住。
When I say funny I mean funny as in," she relaxed her wrist, allowing her hand to dangle and flop, "I mean funny as in that kind of funny." She minced across the room, but it failed to illustrate her point, as this was her natural walk.
当我说有趣时，我的意思是有趣，”她放松手腕，让她的手悬垂下来，“我的意思是有趣，就像那种有趣。”她扭扭捏捏地穿过房间，但这并不能说明她的观点，因为这是她自然的走路方式。
A series of gambling little steps, her back held straight, giving the illusion she was balancing something of value atop her empty head.
她的背部挺直，迈出了一系列赌博性的小步，给人一种她空空的脑袋上平衡着某种有价值的东西的错觉。
My math teacher did a much better version.
我的数学老师做了一个更好的版本。
A former coach, he accompanied his routine with a high pitched lisp, snatching a purse off the back of a student's chair, he pranced about the room, batting his eyes and blowing kisses at the boys seated on the front row.
作为一名前教练，他用高亢的口齿不清的声音伴随着他的例行公事，从学生椅背上抓起一个钱包，他在房间里欢快地走来走去，眨着眼睛，向坐在前排的男孩们飞吻。
[?
[？
"'Tho 'fery nice to meet you," he'd say.
“很高兴见到你，”他会说。
Not wanting to draw any attention to myself, I hooted and squawked along with the rest of the class, all the while thinking, that's me he's talking about.
为了不想引起任何人的注意，我和班上其他人一起大声叫喊，同时心里想，他说的是我。
What really bothered me was that this was such an easy way to get a laugh.
真正让我烦恼的是，这是一种很容易让人发笑的方法。
As entertainers, these teachers were nothing, zero, they could barely impersonate themselves.
作为艺人，这些老师什么都不是，零，他们几乎无法冒充自己。
"Look at you," the coach would shout, skipping across the basketball court.
“看看你，”教练一边喊一边跳过篮球场。
"You're a group of ladies, a bunch of silly queers."
“你们是一群女士，一群愚蠢的同性恋者。”
I had never done anything with another guy, and literally prayed it would never happen.
我从来没有和其他人做过任何事，我真的祈祷这永远不会发生。
As much as I fantasized about it, I understood that there could be nothing worse than that.
尽管我对此充满幻想，但我明白没有什么比这更糟糕的了。
You'd see them on television from time to time, the homosexuals, maybe on one of the afternoon talk programs or filling in as a contestant on one of the game shows.
你时不时会在电视上看到他们，同性恋者，也许在一个下午的谈话节目中，或者作为一个游戏节目的参赛者。
They were the celebrities never asked about their home life, the men running a scarf under their toupee or framing their face with their open palms in an attempt to eliminate the circles beneath their eyes.
他们是那些从未询问过自己家庭生活的名人，男人们在假发下围着围巾，或者用张开的手掌框住自己的脸，试图消除黑眼圈。
"The poor man's face lift," my mother called it.
“穷人的整容手术，”我母亲称之为。
Regardless of their natty attire, they were always sweaty and desperate, willing to play the fool in exchange for the studio applause they seemed to mistake for love and acceptance.
尽管他们穿着整洁，但他们总是大汗淋漓、绝望，愿意装傻以换取工作室的掌声，他们似乎误以为是爱和接受。
I saw something of myself in their mock weary delivery and the way they crossed their legs and laughed at their own jokes.
在他们假装疲倦的讲话中，以及他们翘着二郎腿、因自己的笑话而大笑的样子中，我看到了自己的影子。
I pictured their homes, the finicky placement of their throw rugs and sectional sofas, the magazines carefully fanned just so upon the coffee table, with no wives or children to disturb their order.
我想象着他们的家，小地毯和组合沙发的摆放位置很挑剔，杂志在咖啡桌上小心翼翼地扇开，没有妻子或孩子打扰他们的秩序。
I imagined the pornography hidden in their closets and envisioned them powerless and sobbing as the police led them away in shackles, past the teenage boy who stood bathed in the light of the television news camera, shouting, "That's him.
我想象着他们衣柜里藏着的色情作品，想象着当警察带着脚镣将他们带走时，他们无能为力，哭泣着，经过那个站在电视新闻摄像机的灯光下的十几岁男孩，大喊：“就是他。
He's the one who touched my hair."
他就是那个摸我头发的人。”
It was my plan to win a contest, cash in my prizes, and use the money to visit a psychiatrist who might cure me of having homosexual thoughts.
我的计划是赢得一场比赛，兑现我的奖品，并用这笔钱去看一位精神科医生，他可能会治愈我的同性恋想法。
I would tell my family I'd given the money to charity, and then, under the doctor's supervision, I would really buckle down and change.
我会告诉家人我已经把钱捐给了慈善机构，然后在医生的监督下，我会真正努力改变。
I swore I would.
我发誓我会的。
My parents knew a couple whose son had killed a minister while driving drunk.
我父母认识一对夫妇，他们的儿子酒后驾车杀死了一位牧师。
They had friends whose oldest daughter had sprinkled a bundt cake with Comet, and once vacationed with a man whose children had set fire to the family's elderly border collie.
他们有的朋友的大女儿在蛋糕上撒了彗星，有一次和一个男人一起度假，他的孩子放火烧了家里年迈的边境牧羊犬。
Yet they spoke of no one whose son was a homosexual.
然而他们却没有提到谁的儿子是同性恋。
The odds struck me as bizarre, but the message was the same.
这种可能性让我觉得很奇怪，但传达的信息是一样的。
This was clearly the worst thing that could happen to a person.
这显然是一个人可能发生的最糟糕的事情。
I washed my hands until they were pink and wrinkled, and then, deciding that clean hands were a sure giveaway, I dug my fingers into my mother's planter in order to pack dirt beneath my nails.
我把双手洗干净，直到双手变成粉红色并出现皱纹，然后，我认为双手干净就说明了一切，于是我把手指伸进母亲的花盆里，把指甲里的泥土塞进去。
The day to day anxiety was bad enough without my instructors taking their feeble little potshots.
日复一日的焦虑已经够糟糕的了，即使我的导师没有采取他们微弱的小批评。
If my math teacher were able to subtract the alcohol from his diet, he'd still be on the football field where he belonged, and my Spanish teacher's credentials were based on nothing more than a long weekend in Tijuana as far as I was concerned.
如果我的数学老师能够从他的饮食中减去酒精，他仍然会在他所属的足球场上，而就我而言，我的西班牙语老师的资历只不过是基于在蒂华纳的一个长周末。
Except for a few transfer students, I'd known most of the homosexuals since third grade.
除了少数转学生外，大部分同性恋者我从三年级起就认识了。
We'd spent years gathered together in cinder block offices as one speech therapist after another tried curing us of our lisps.
我们花了数年时间聚集在煤渣砌成的办公室里，一位又一位语言治疗师试图治愈我们的口齿不清。
Had there been a walking specialist, we would have met there, too.
如果有一位步行专家，我们也会在那里见面。
These were the same boys who avoided the shortcut through the woods and were the first to raise their hands when the teacher asked for a volunteer to read aloud from The Yearling or Lord of the Flies.
这些男孩避开了穿过树林的捷径，当老师要求志愿者大声朗读《一岁鸽》或《蝇王》时，他们是第一个举手的男孩。
We had long ago identified one another and understood that, because of everything we had in common, we could never be friends.
我们很久以前就认清了彼此，并且明白，由于我们拥有的一切共同点，我们永远不可能成为朋友。
To socialize would have drawn too much attention to ourselves.
社交会让我们过多地关注自己。
We were members of a secret society based upon self-loathing.
我们是一个基于自我厌恶的秘密社团的成员。
When a teacher or a classmate made fun of a real homosexual, I made certain my laugh was louder than anyone else's.
当老师或同学取笑真正的同性恋者时，我确信我的笑声比其他人都大。
When a society member's clothing was thrown into the locker room toilet, I was always the first to cheer.
当社团成员的衣服被扔进更衣室厕所时，我总是第一个欢呼。
When it was my clothing, I watched as the faces of my fellows broke into recognizable expressions of relief.
当这是我的衣服时，我看到我的同伴们的脸上露出了明显的轻松表情。
They had been spared, and now it was someone else's turn.
他们幸免于难，现在轮到别人了。
Several of my teachers, when discussing the upcoming school integration, would scratch at the damp stains beneath their arms, pulling back their lips to display every bit of tooth and gum.
我的几位老师在讨论即将到来的学校整合时，会抓挠腋下的湿渍，拉开嘴唇，露出每一点牙齿和牙龈。
They made monkey noises, a manic succession of oohs and aahs I imagined they practiced nightly in their bedrooms.
他们发出猴子般的声音，一连串疯狂的“噢”和“啊”，我想他们每晚都会在卧室里练习。
If an ape were seated in the room, I guess he might have identified their's as a cry of panic.
如果房间里坐着一只猩猩，我猜他可能会认为他们的叫声是恐慌的叫声。
Anything that caused them suffering brought me joy, but I doubted they would talk this way come fall.
任何给他们带来痛苦的事情都会给我带来快乐，但我怀疑他们秋天会这样说话。
From everything I've seen on television, the negroes would never settle for such foolishness.
从我在电视上看到的一切来看，黑人永远不会满足于这种愚蠢的行为。
As a people, they seemed to stick together, waving their fists against the backdrop of a fiery sky.
作为一个民族，他们似乎团结在一起，在火热的天空的背景下挥舞着拳头。
They knew how to fight, and I hoped that, once they arrived, the battle might come down to black and white, leaving the rest of us alone.
他们知道如何战斗，我希望，一旦他们到达，战斗就会变得黑白分明，让我们其他人独自一人。
At the end of the school year, my sister Lisa and I were excused from our volunteer jobs and sent to Greece to attend a month long summer camp advertised as the crown jewel of the Ionian Sea.
学年结束时，我和姐姐丽莎被免除了志愿者工作，并被派往希腊参加为期一个月的夏令营，该夏令营被宣传为爱奥尼亚海皇冠上的明珠。
The camp was reserved exclusively for Greek Americans, and featured instruction in such topics as folk dancing and religious training.
该营地专门为希腊裔美国人保留，并以民间舞蹈和宗教训练等主题为特色。
I detested the idea of summer camp, but wanted to boast that I'd been to Europe.
我讨厌夏令营的想法，但想夸耀我去过欧洲。
"It changes people," our neighbor had said, marking her garden with a series of tissue sized international flags.
“它改变了人，”我们的邻居说道，并用一系列纸巾大小的国际旗帜标记她的花园。
"Europe is the best thing that can happen to a person, especially if you like wine."
“欧洲是一个人能遇到的最好的事情，尤其是如果你喜欢葡萄酒的话。”
I saw Europe as an opportunity to reinvent myself.
我将欧洲视为重塑自我的机会。
I might still look and speak the same way, but having walked those ancient cobblestone streets, I would be identified as continental.
我的外表和说话方式可能仍然是一样的，但走过那些古老的鹅卵石街道后，我会被认为是大陆人。
"He has a passport," my classmates would whisper.
“他有护照。”我的同学会低声说。
"Quick, let's run before he judges us."
“快点，在他审判我们之前我们赶紧跑吧。”
I told myself I would find a girlfriend in Greece.
我告诉自己我会在希腊找个女朋友。
She would be a French tourist wandering the beach with a loaf of bread beneath her arm.
她将是一名腋下夹着一条面包在海滩漫步的法国游客。
Lisette would prove that I wasn't a homosexual, but a man with refined tastes.
莉塞特会证明我不是同性恋，而是一个品味高雅的男人。
I pictured us holding hands against the silhouette of the Acropolis, her begging me to take a recording as a memento of our love.
我想象我们手牵着手靠在卫城的剪影上，她恳求我录下来作为我们爱情的纪念。
"Silly you," I would say, brushing the tears from her eyes.
“你真傻，”我一边说，一边擦掉她眼中的泪水。
"Just give me the beret, that'll be enough to hold you in my heart until the end of time." In case no one believed me, I would have my sister as a witness.
“只要把贝雷帽给我，就足以让你永远留在我心里。”万一没人相信我，我就让我姐姐来作证。
Lisa and I weren't getting along very well, but hopefully the warm Mediterranean breezes might melt the icicle she seemed to have mistaken for a rectal thermometer.
丽莎和我相处得不太好，但希望温暖的地中海微风能够融化她似乎误认为是直肠温度计的冰柱。
My father accompanied us to New York where we met our fellow campers for the charter flight.
我父亲陪我们去了纽约，在那里我们遇到了乘坐包机的其他营员。
There were hundreds of them, each one confident and celebratory.
他们有数百人，每个人都充满自信和庆祝。
They tossed their complimentary Aegean Airlines bags across the room, shouting and jostling one another.
他们把免费的爱琴海航空行李扔到房间的另一边，大喊大叫，互相推搡。
Were it an all girls camp, I would have been able to work up some enthusiasm, but spending a month in the company of boys, that was asking too much.
如果这是一个全是女孩的夏令营，我本来可以激发一些热情，但在男孩的陪伴下度过一个月，这要求太多了。
I tried to put it out of my mind, but faced with their boisterous presence, I found myself growing progressively more hysterical.
我试图把它忘掉，但面对他们喧闹的存在，我发现自己变得越来越歇斯底里。
My nervous tics shifted into their highest gear, and a crowd gathered, watching what they believed to be an epileptic seizure.
我的紧张抽搐达到了最严重的程度，一群人聚集在一起，观看他们认为是癫痫发作的情况。
If my sister was anxious about the trip, she certainly didn't show it.
如果我姐姐对这次旅行感到焦虑，她当然不会表现出来。
Prying my fingers off her wrist, she crossed the room and introduced herself to a fellow camper.
她把我的手指从她的手腕上撬开，穿过房间，向一位露营者介绍自己。
This was a tough looking Queens native named Stephanie Heartattackis or Testacokales.
这是一位长相强硬的皇后区本地人，名叫斯蒂芬妮·心脏病或泰斯塔科卡莱斯。
I recall only that her last name had granted her a lifelong supply of resentment.
我只记得她的姓氏给她带来了终生的怨恨。
Stephanie wore mirrored aviator sunglasses and carried an oversize comb in the back pocket of her hip hugger jeans.
斯蒂芬妮戴着镜面飞行员太阳镜，臀部牛仔裤的后袋里放着一把超大梳子。
Of all the girls in the room, she seemed the least likely candidate for my sister's friendship.
在房间里的所有女孩中，她似乎是最不可能成为我姐姐友谊的人选。
They sat beside one another on the plane, and by the time we disembarked in Athens, Lisa was speaking in a bad Queens accent.
他们在飞机上坐在一起，当我们在雅典下飞机时，丽莎说话的口音很糟糕。
During the long flight, while I sat cowering beside a boy named Semen, my sister had undergone a complete physical and cultural transformation.
在长途飞行中，当我蜷缩在一个名叫塞门的男孩身边时，我的妹妹经历了彻底的身体和文化转变。
Her shoulder length hair was now parted on the side, covering the left side of her face as if to conceal a nasty scar.
她齐肩的头发现在从一侧分开，遮住了她的左脸，仿佛是为了掩盖一道令人讨厌的伤疤。
She cursed and spat, scowling out the bus window as if she'd come to Greece with the sole intention of kicking its ass.
她咒骂着，吐了口口水，皱着眉头望向车窗外，仿佛她来到希腊的唯一目的就是要狠狠地踢它的屁股。
"What a [BLEEP] hole," she yelled.
“真是个[BLEEP]洞，”她喊道。
"Jesus, if I'd known it was going to be this hot, I would have stayed home with my head in the oven, right goils?
“天哪，如果我知道天气会这么热，我一定会呆在家里把头埋在烤箱里，对吗？
I approached her once we reached the camp, a cluster of whitewashed buildings hugging the desolate coast far from any neighboring village.
当我们到达营地时，我走近她，一群白色的建筑环绕着荒凉的海岸，远离任何邻近的村庄。
"Listen [BLEEP] hole," she said, "as far as this place is concerned, I don't know you, and you sure as [BLEEP] don't know me.
“听着[BLEEP]洞，”她说，“就这个地方而言，我不认识你，你也肯定[BLEEP]不认识我。
You got that?" "Hey, Carolina," one of her friends called.
你明白了吗？” “嘿，卡罗莱纳，”她的一位朋友喊道。
"All right, already," she brayed, "I'm coming, I'm coming." That was the last time we spoke until she borrowed money a week before returning home.
“好吧，已经了，”她嘶哑地说，“我来了，我来了。”那是我们最后一次说话，直到她回家前一周借了钱。
Lisa had adjusted with remarkable ease.
丽莎非常轻松地调整了状态。
Although we were cut from the same cloth, something deep in my stomach suggested I wouldn't do nearly so well.
尽管我们志同道合，但我内心深处的某种感觉表明我不会做得那么好。
Camp lasted a month, during which time, I never once had a bowel movement.
夏令营持续了一个月，期间我从来没有排便过一次。
I was used to having a semi-private bathroom, and could not bring myself to occupy one of the men's room stalls, fearful that someone might recognize my shoes.
我习惯了半私人浴室，无法让自己占据男厕所的一个隔间，担心有人认出我的鞋子。
Sitting down three times a day for a heavy Greek meal became an exercise akin to packing a musket.
一天三次坐下来吃一顿丰盛的希腊大餐变成了一种类似于装步枪的练习。
I told myself I'd sneak off during one of our field trips, but those toilets were nothing more than a hole in the ground, a hole I could have easily filled with no problem whatsoever.
我告诉自己，我会在一次实地考察期间偷偷溜走，但那些厕所只不过是地上的一个洞，一个我可以轻松填上的洞，没有任何问题。
I considered using the Ionian Sea, but for some unexplained reason, we were not allowed to swim in those waters.
我考虑过使用爱奥尼亚海，但由于某种无法解释的原因，我们不被允许在那些水域游泳。
The camp had an Olympic size pool which was fed from the sea, and soon grew murky with stray bits of jelly fish, which had been pulverized by the pump.
营地里有一个奥林匹克规模的水池，水源来自大海，但很快就因被泵压碎的水母碎片而变得浑浊。
The tiny tentacles raised welts, so shortly after arriving, it was announced that we could photograph both the pool and the ocean, but we could swim in neither.
微小的触手留下了伤痕，所以到达后不久，就宣布我们可以拍摄游泳池和海洋，但我们不能在其中游泳。
The Greeks had invented democracy, built the acropolis, and then called it a day.
希腊人发明了民主，建造了卫城，然后就到此为止了。
The camp was basically an extension of my junior high school, except here, everyone had either an excess of moles or a single eyebrow.
这个营基本上是我初中的延伸，只不过这里，每个人要么有多余的痣，要么只有一根眉毛。
The attractive, sports minded boys ran the show, currying favors from the staff and ruining the weekly outdoor movies with their inane heckling.
这些有吸引力的、有运动天赋的男孩们主持了整个节目，讨好工作人员，并用他们愚蠢的质问破坏了每周的户外电影。
From time to time, the rented tour buses would carry us to view one of the country's many splendors, and we would raid the gift shops, stealing anything that wasn't bolted down to the shelf.
有时，租来的旅游巴士会带我们去参观这个国家的众多壮丽景色之一，我们会袭击礼品店，偷走任何没有固定在架子上的东西。
These were cheap plated puzzle rings and pint-size vases, little pom pom shoes and coffee mugs reading, "Sparta is for a lover."
这些是廉价的电镀拼图环和小型花瓶，小绒球鞋和咖啡杯，上面写着“斯巴达是为情人准备的。”
My shoplifting experience was the only thing that gave me an edge over the popular boys.
我的入店行窃经历是唯一让我比受欢迎的男孩更有优势的事情。
"Hold it like this," I whispered, "then swivel around and slip the statue of Diana down the back of your shorts, covering it with your t-shirt.
“像这样握住它，”我低声说，“然后旋转一圈，将戴安娜雕像滑到你的短裤后面，用你的 T 恤盖住它。
Just remember to always back out the door, and never forget to wave goodbye."
只要记住总是退出门，并且永远不要忘记挥手告别。”
There was one boy at camp I felt at ease with, a Detroit native named Pete who stepped on the bunk below me.
营地里有一个男孩，我觉得和他在一起很自在，他是底特律本地人，名叫皮特，他踩在我下面的铺位上。
Pete looked away while talking to the other boys, shifting his eyes as if he were studying the weather conditions.
皮特在与其他男孩交谈时移开视线，移动着目光，仿佛在研究天气状况。
Like me, he used his free time to curl in a fetal position, staring at the bedside calendar upon which he'd exed out all the days he'd so far endured.
和我一样，他利用空闲时间蜷缩成胎儿的姿势，盯着床边的日历，上面记录着他迄今为止所忍受的所有日子。
We were finishing our 7:15 to 7:45 wash and rinse segment one morning, when the counselor arrived for inspection, shouting, "What are you, a bunch of goddamn faggots who can't make your goddamn beds?" I found myself giggling at his stupid choice of words, if any knew how to make their bed, it was a faggot.
一天早上，我们正在完成 7:15 到 7:45 的清洗和漂洗部分，这时辅导员来检查，喊道：“你们是什么人，一群连床铺都不会整理的该死的同性恋？”我发现自己对他愚蠢的用词感到咯咯笑，如果有人知道如何整理床铺，那他就是个基佬。
It was the others he needed to worry about.
他需要担心的是其他人。
I caught Pete laughing, too, and soon, we took to mocking this counselor, referring to one another first as faggots, and then as stinking faggots.
我发现皮特也在笑，很快，我们就开始嘲笑这位辅导员，首先互相称呼对方为“基佬”，然后又称为“臭基佬”。
We were lazy faggots and sunburnt faggots before we eventually became faggoty faggots.
在我们最终成为基佬之前，我们曾是懒惰的基佬和晒伤的基佬。
We couldn't protest the word as it would have meant acknowledging the truth of it.
我们无法抗议这个词，因为这意味着承认它的真相。
The most we could do was embrace it as a joke, and in doing so, embody its darkest meaning, mincing and prancing about the room for each other's entertainment while the others weren't looking.
我们最多能做的就是把它当成一个笑话来接受，这样做，体现了它最黑暗的含义，在房间里装腔作势、蹦蹦跳跳地为彼此娱乐，而其他人却没有注意到。
Faggot as a word was always delivered in a harsh, unforgiving tone, befitting anyone weak or stupid enough to act upon their impulses.
“同性恋”这个词总是以严厉、无情的语气表达，适合那些软弱或愚蠢到凭自己的冲动行事的人。
This was a game, less humiliating than soccer, but certainly more dangerous.
这是一场比赛，不像足球那么丢脸，但肯定更危险。
Late at night, I'd feel my bunk buck and sway, knowing that Pete was either masturbating or beating eggs for an omelet.
深夜，我会感觉到我的铺位在起伏，知道皮特要么在自慰，要么在打鸡蛋做煎蛋卷。
Is that me he's thinking about?
他心里想的是我吗？
Joining in, I would awake the next morning to find our entire iron framed unit had wandered a good foot away from the wall.
第二天早上我醒来时，会发现我们的整个铁架单元已经离墙一英尺远了。
Let the mountains stay where they were, our love had the power to move bunks.
让山脉留在原处吧，我们的爱有能力移动铺位。
Having no willpower, we depended on circumstances to keep us apart.
由于缺乏意志力，我们只能依靠环境来将我们分开。
"This can't happen" was accompanied by the sound of bed springs whining, "Oh, but why can't it?" There came an afternoon when, running late for flag worship, we found ourselves alone in the cabin.
“这不可能发生”，伴随着床弹簧的哀鸣声，“哦，但为什么不能呢？”有一天下午，我们去崇拜国旗迟到了，发现自己独自一人在小屋里。
What started off as name calling soon escalated to a series of mock angry slaps.
一开始的辱骂很快就升级为一系列假装愤怒的耳光。
We wrestled one another onto one of the lower bunks, knowing that these were not regulation holds, yet unable to stop ourselves.
我们在一张下铺上互相摔跤，知道这些不是规则的保留，但却无法阻止自己。
"You kids think you invented sex," my mother was fond of saying.
“你们这些孩子认为性是你们发明的，”我母亲喜欢说。
But hadn't we?
但我们不是吗？
With no written instruction manual or pre-scheduled rehearsal, didn't each of us come away feeling we had discovered something unspeakably modern?
由于没有书面的指导手册或预先安排的排练，我们每个人离开时不是都感觉自己发现了一些难以形容的现代事物吗？
What produced in others a sense of swaggering exhilaration left Pete and I with a mortifying sense of guilt.
别人产生了一种趾高气扬的兴奋感，而我和皮特却产生了一种令人难堪的内疚感。
We fled the room as if, in our fondlings, we had uncapped some virus we might still escape if we ran hard enough.
我们逃离了房间，仿佛在我们的爱抚中，我们解开了某种病毒，如果我们跑得足够努力，我们仍然可以逃脱。
Had one of the counselors not caught me scaling the fence, I was certain I would've made it back to Raleigh by morning, skittering across the surface of the water like one of those lizards often featured on the television wildlife specials.
如果不是一位辅导员发现我翻越栅栏，我确信我会在早上回到罗利，像电视野生动物特别节目中经常出现的蜥蜴一样在水面上掠过。
When discovered making out with one of the Greek bus drivers, a 16 year-old camper was forced to stand beside the flag pole, dressed in long pants and thick sweaters.
当一名 16 岁的露营者被发现与一名希腊公交车司机亲热时，他被迫穿着长裤和厚毛衣站在旗杆旁。
We watched her broil in the hot sun until, fully cooked, she stumbled for a moment or two before passing out.
我们看着她在烈日下烤，直到完全煮熟，她绊倒了一两分钟才昏倒。
If this was a punishment for a boy and a girl, I could not begin to imagine the punishment they might level upon two boys.
如果这是对一个男孩和一个女孩的惩罚，我无法想象他们会对两个男孩施加的惩罚。
Nothing, however, could match the cruelty and humiliation we soon practiced against one another.
然而，没有什么能与我们很快对彼此实行的残酷和羞辱相媲美。
Pete started a rumor that I had stolen an athletic supporter from another camper and worshipped it as a keepsake.
皮特散布谣言，说我从另一个露营者那里偷了一个运动支架，并将其作为纪念品崇拜。
I retaliated, claiming that he had expressed a desire to become a dancer.
我进行了报复，声称他表达了成为一名舞者的愿望。
"That's nothing," he said to the assembled crowd, "take a look at what I found on David's bed." He reached into the pocket of his shorts and withdrew a sheet of notebook paper upon which were written the words, "I like guys."
“这没什么，”他对聚集的人群说，“看看我在大卫床上发现的东西。”他把手伸进短裤口袋，掏出一张笔记本纸，上面写着：“我喜欢男人。”
Presented as an indictment, the document was both pathetic and comic.
这份文件以起诉书的形式呈现，既可悲又滑稽。
Would I supposedly have written a note to remind myself of that fact, least I forget?
我应该写一张便条来提醒自己这个事实，至少我会忘记吗？
Had I intended to wear it taped to my bare back, advertising my preference next time our rented buses carried us off to yet another sun-drenched sexual playground?
我是否打算把它贴在我裸露的背上，下次我们租来的巴士载我们去另一个阳光普照的性游乐场时宣传我的偏好？
I like guys.
我喜欢男人。
He held the paper above his head, turning a slow circle so that everyone might get a chance to see it.
他把纸举过头顶，慢慢地转了一圈，以便每个人都有机会看到它。
I suppose he originally intended to plant it on my bunk for one of the counselors to find.
我想他最初打算把它放在我的铺位上，以便其中一位辅导员找到。
Presenting it himself had foiled the note's intended effect.
自己提出来却破坏了这张纸条的预期效果。
The other boys groaned and looked away, wondering why he'd picked it up and carried the thing around.
其他男孩呻吟着，把目光移开，想知道他为什么把它捡起来并随身携带。
He might as well have cradled a glistening turd, shouting, "Look what he did." Touching such a foul document made him suspect and guilty by association.
他还不如抱着一块闪闪发光的粪便大喊：“看看他做了什么。”触摸如此肮脏的文件使他产生了关联嫌疑并有罪。
In attempting to discredit one another, we round up alienating ourselves even further.
在试图诋毁彼此的过程中，我们进一步疏远了自己。
During meals, I studied him from across the room.
吃饭时，我从房间的另一边观察他。
Clearly he had tricked me, cast a spell or slipped something into my food.
显然他欺骗了我，施了咒语或者在我的食物里放了一些东西。
I watched as he befriended a girl named Theodora and held her hand during a screening of A Lovely Way to Die, one of the cave paintings the camp offered as a weekly movie.
我看到他与一个名叫西奥多拉的女孩成为朋友，并在放映《可爱的死亡方式》时握着她的手，《可爱的死亡方式》是该营地每周提供的洞穴壁画之一。
She wasn't a bad person, Theodora.
她不是一个坏人，西奥多拉。
Someday, the doctors might find a way to transplant a calf's brain into a human skull, and she'd be just as lively and intelligent as he was.
有一天，医生可能会找到一种方法，将小牛的大脑移植到人类的头骨中，她就会像他一样活泼、聪明。
I tried to find a girlfriend of my own, but my one possible candidate was sent home after her leg brace got caught in the grill of a delivery truck.
我试图寻找自己的女朋友，但我的一位可能的候选人在她的腿支架被一辆送货卡车的格栅卡住后被送回家。
Pete looked convincing enough in the company of his girlfriend.
皮特在女友的陪伴下显得很有说服力。
They scrambled up the steps of various ruins, snapping one another's pictures and sharing their private jokes, while I watched them, fuming.
他们爬上各个废墟的台阶，互相拍照并分享他们的私人笑话，而我则生气地看着他们。
My jealousy stemmed from the belief that he had been cured.
我的嫉妒源于我相信他已经被治愈了。
One fistful of my flesh, and he had lost all symptoms of the disease.
我的一把肉，他就消失了所有疾病症状。
"We're thinking of getting married," I heard him boast to one of the other campers.
“我们正在考虑结婚，”我听到他向其他露营者吹嘘道。
"She lives in Florida, and I'm in Michigan, but if we wait a year, I'm pretty sure 16 is a legal age in Georgia." Yeah right, I thought.
“她住在佛罗里达州，我住在密歇根州，但如果我们等一年，我很确定 16 岁是佐治亚州的法定年龄。”是的，我想。
Legal age in Greece appeared to be about 12, why not just stay here, raise some goats, and start your own delivery service, you stupid, lying faggot.
希腊的法定年龄似乎是12岁左右，为什么不呆在这里，养一些山羊，然后开始你自己的送货服务，你这个愚蠢的、撒谎的基佬。
Camp ended and I flew home with my legs crossed, dropping my bag of stolen souvenirs to race to the bathroom, where I spent the next several days sitting on the toilet and studying my face in a hand mirror.
营地结束了，我盘着双腿飞回家，丢下偷来的纪念品袋子，跑到浴室，接下来的几天我坐在马桶上，对着手镜研究自己的脸。
I like guys.
我喜欢男人。
The words had settled themselves into my features.
这些话已经融入了我的表情。
I returned to my job at the mental hospital, carrying harsh Greek cigarettes I offered as incentives to some of the more difficult patients.
我回到了精神病院的工作岗位，带着我为一些病情较重的病人提供的刺激性希腊香烟。
"Faggot," one woman shouted, stooping to protect the collection of pine cones.
“混蛋，”一名妇女喊道，弯下腰保护松果。
"Get your faggoty hands away from my radio transmitters." "Don't mind her," the orderly said, "she's crazy." Maybe not, I thought, holding a pine cone up to my ear.
“把你那双同性恋的手从我的无线电发射器上拿开。” “别管她，”勤务兵说，“她疯了。”也许不是，我想，把一个松果举到耳边。
She'd gotten the faggot part right, so maybe she was on to something.
她已经把同性恋的部分说对了，所以也许她说对了。
The moment we'd boarded our return flight from Kennedy to Raleigh, Lisa had rearranged her hair, dropped her accent, and turned to me, saying, "Well, I thought that was very nice.
当我们登上从肯尼迪飞往罗利的返程航班时，丽莎重新整理了头发，改掉了口音，然后转向我说：“嗯，我觉得这很好。
How about you?" Over the course of five minutes, she had eliminated all traces of her reckless European self.
你呢？”五分钟的时间里，她已经消除了她鲁莽的欧洲自我的所有痕迹。
Why couldn't I do the same?
为什么我不能做同样的事情？
Shortly before school began, I discovered that I would not be bused.
开学前不久，我发现我不会坐公交车了。
There had been violence in other counties and states, troubles as far away as Boston, but in Raleigh the transition was peaceful.
其他县和州也发生过暴力事件，远至波士顿也遇到了麻烦，但罗利的过渡是和平的。
Not only the students, but many of the teachers had been shifted from one school to another.
不仅是学生，还有许多老师都从一所学校转移到另一所学校。
My new science teacher was a negro very adept at swishing his way across the room, mocking everyone from Albert Einstein to the dweebish host of a popular children's television program.
我的新科学老师是一位黑人，非常擅长在房间里挥舞着，嘲笑从阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦到流行儿童电视节目的傻瓜主持人的所有人。
Black and white, the teachers offered their ridicule as an olive branch.
黑白分明，老师们纷纷抛出橄榄枝。
"Here," they said, "this is something we all have in common.
“在这里，”他们说，“这是我们的共同点。
Proof that we're all brothers under the skin." Thank you.
证明我们都是骨肉兄弟。”谢谢。
David Sedaris, reading years ago at a benefit for Stories on Stage.
大卫·塞达里斯（David Sedaris）几年前在舞台上的故事慈善活动中阅读。
That story was later published in David's book Naked.
这个故事后来发表在大卫的书《裸体》中。
Coming up, kids decide not to save a man trapped in a well.
接下来，孩子们决定不去救一个被困在井里的人。
Plus, an experiment that actually made kids less cruel.
另外，这项实验实际上让孩子们不再那么残忍。
That's in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program we choose a theme, invite a variety of writers and performers to take a whack at the theme.
在我们的节目中，我们每周都会选择一个主题，邀请各种作家和表演者来尝试这个主题。
Today's theme is cruelty of children-- not cruelty to children, mind you, cruelty of children.
今天的主题是虐待儿童——请注意，不是虐待儿童，而是虐待儿童。
And our next story is by writer Ira Sher.
我们的下一个故事是作家艾拉·谢尔的。
And in it, the children aren't cruel in a mean spirited or typical way, but the effect of their actions constitutes a kind of cruelty.
其中，孩子们并不是心怀恶意或典型的残忍，但他们的行为所造成的后果却构成了一种残忍。
I was nine when I discovered the man in the well in an abandoned farm lot near my home.
当我在我家附近一个废弃农场的井里发现这个人时，我才九岁。
I was with a group of friends playing hide and go seek, or something, when I found the well, and then I heard the voice of the man in the well calling out for help.
我和一群朋友在玩捉迷藏什么的，当我找到井的时候，然后我听到井里的人呼救的声音。
I think it's important that we decided not to help him.
我认为我们决定不帮助他很重要。
Everyone, like myself, was probably on the verge of fetching a rope, or asking where we could find a ladder, but then we looked around at each other, and it was decided.
每个人，就像我一样，可能都想拿一根绳子，或者问在哪里可以找到梯子，但后来我们互相看了看，就做出了决定。
I don't remember if we told ourselves a reason why we couldn't help him, but we had decided then.
我不记得我们是否告诉自己无法帮助他的原因，但我们当时就决定了。
Because of this, I never went very close to the lip of the well, or I only came up on my hands and knees, so that he couldn't see me.
因此，我从来没有离井口太近，或者只是用手和膝盖上来，这样他就看不到我了。
And just as we wouldn't allow him to see us, I know that none of us ever saw the man in the well.
正如我们不允许他看到我们一样，我知道我们没有人见过井里的那个人。
The well was too dark for that, too deep, even when the sun was high up angling down the stone sides like golden hair.
井里太黑了，太深了，即使太阳高高地照在石壁上，就像金色的头发一样。
I remember that we were still full of games and laughter when we called down to him.
我记得当我们向他喊话时，我们仍然充满了游戏和笑声。
He had heard us shouting while we were playing, and he had been hollering for us to come.
他听到我们在玩耍时大喊大叫，他一直在大喊让我们过来。
He was so relieved at that moment.
那一刻他心里如此释然。
"God, get me out.
“上帝啊，带我出去吧。
I've been here for days." He must've known we were children, because he immediately struggled us to go get a ladder, get help.
我已经在这里好几天了。”他一定知道我们还是孩子，因为他立即努力让我们去拿梯子，寻求帮助。
At first afraid to disobey the voice from the man in the well, we turned around and actually began to walk toward the nearest house, which was Arthur's.
起初，我们不敢听从井里那个人的声音，于是我们转身，实际上开始朝最近的房子走去，那是亚瑟的房子。
But along the way, we slowed down, and then we stopped.
但一路上，我们放慢了速度，然后停了下来。
And after waiting what seemed like a good while, we quietly came back to the well.
等了似乎很长一段时间后，我们悄悄地回到了井边。
We stood or lay around the lip, listening for maybe half an hour.
我们站着或躺着，听了大约半个小时。
And then Arthur, after some hesitation, called down, "What's your name?" This, after all, seemed like the most natural question.
然后亚瑟犹豫了一下，向下喊道：“你叫什么名字？”毕竟，这似乎是最自然的问题。
The man answered back immediately.
男人立即回应道。
"Do you have the ladder?" We all looked at Arthur, and he called back down, "No, we couldn't find one."
“你有梯子吗？”我们都看着亚瑟，他向下喊道：“不，我们找不到。”
Now that we had established some sort of a dialogue, everyone had questions he or she wanted to ask the man in the well.
现在我们已经建立了某种对话，每个人都有他或她想问井里的人的问题。
The man wouldn't stop speaking.
男人不停地说着。
"Go tell your parents there's someone in this well.
“去告诉你的父母，这口井里有人。
If they have a rope, or a ladder," he trailed off.
如果他们有绳子或梯子的话，”他声音低了下来。
His voice was raw, and sometimes he would cough.
他的声音很沙哑，有时还会咳嗽。
"Just tell your parents."
“告诉你父母就行了。”
We were quiet, but this time, no one stood up or moved.
我们很安静，但这一次，没有人站起来，也没有动弹。
Someone, I think little Jason, called down, "Hello.
有人，我想是小杰森，在楼下喊道：“你好。
Is it dark?" And then after a moment, "Can you see the sky?" He didn't answer, but instead told us to go again.
天黑了吗？”过了一会儿，“你能看到天空吗？”他没有回答，只是叫我们再去一次。
When we were quiet for a bit, he called to see if we were gone.
当我们安静了一会儿后，他打电话来问我们是否走了。
After a pause, Wendy crawled right to the edge so that her hair lifted slightly in the updraft.
停顿了一下，温蒂爬到了边缘，她的头发在上升气流中微微扬起。
"Is there any water down there?"
“下面有水吗？”
"Have they gone for help?" He asked.
“他们去寻求帮助了吗？”他问道。
She looked around at us, and then she called down, "Yes.
她环顾四周，看了看我们，然后向下喊道：“是的。
They're all gone now.
现在他们都走了。
Isn't there any water down there?" I don't think anyone smiled at how easy it was to deceive him.
下面没有水吗？”我想没有人会因为欺骗他是多么容易而微笑。
This was too important.
这太重要了。
"Isn't there?" She said again.
“不是有吗？”她又说道。
"No," he said.
“不，”他说。
"It's very dry." He cleared his throat.
“天气很干燥。”他清了清喉咙。
"Do you think it will rain?" She stood up and took in the whole sky with her blue eyes, making sure.
“你觉得会下雨吗？”她站起身来，用蓝色的眼睛看了看整个天空，确认道。
"No, I don't think so." We heard him cough in the well, and we waited for a while, thinking about him waiting in the well.
“不，我不这么认为。”我们听到他在井里咳嗽，我们等了一会儿，想着他在井里等着。
Resting on the grass and cement by the well, I tried to picture him.
我躺在井边的草地和水泥地上，试着想象他的样子。
I tried to imagine the gesture of his hand reaching to cover his mouth each time he coughed.
我试着想象他每次咳嗽时伸手捂住嘴的姿势。
Or perhaps he was too tired to make that gesture each time.
或者也许他太累了，无法每次都做出这个手势。
After an hour, he began calling again, but for some reason, we didn't want to answer.
一个小时后，他又开始打电话，但出于某种原因，我们不想接听。
We got up and began running, filling up with panic as we moved, until we were racing across the ruts of the old field.
我们站起来开始奔跑，一路上充满了恐慌，直到我们跑过旧场地的车辙。
I kept turning, stumbling as I looked behind.
我不停地转身，向后看时跌跌撞撞。
Perhaps he had heard us getting up and running away from the well.
也许他听到我们起身逃离井边。
Only Wendy stayed by the well for a while, watching us run as his calling grew louder and wilder, until finally she ran, too, and then we were far away.
只有温迪在井边待了一会儿，看着我们奔跑，他的叫声越来越响亮，越来越狂野，直到最后她也跑了，然后我们就走远了。
The next morning, we came back, most of us carrying bread or fruit, or something to eat, in our pockets.
第二天早上，我们回来了，大多数人的口袋里都揣着面包、水果或者吃的东西。
Arthur brought a canvas bag from his house and a plastic jug of water.
阿瑟从家里带来了一个帆布袋和一个塑料壶水。
When we got to the well, we stood around quietly for a moment, listening for him.
当我们到达井边时，我们静静地站了一会儿，听他说话。
"Maybe he's asleep," Wendy said.
“也许他睡着了，”温蒂说。
We sat down around the mouth of the well on an old concrete slab, warming in the sun, and coursing with ants and tiny insects.
我们坐在井口周围一块旧混凝土板上，在阳光下取暖，蚂蚁和小昆虫在其中穿梭。
Aaron called down then, when everyone was comfortable, and the man answered right away, as if he had been listening to us the whole time.
当大家都舒服的时候，亚伦就往下打电话，那人立刻接听了，好像他一直在听我们说话。
"Did your parents get help?" Arthur kneeled at the edge of the well and called, "Watch out." And then he let the bag fall after holding it out for a moment, maybe for the man to see.
“你父母有得到帮助吗？”亚瑟跪在井边喊道：“小心。”然后他把袋子拿了一会儿，然后把它放下来，也许是为了让那个人看到。
It hit the ground more quickly than I expected.
它落地的速度比我预想的要快。
That, combined with the feeling that he could hear everything we said, made him suddenly closer, as if he might be able to see us.
再加上他能听到我们所说的一切的感觉，让他突然变得更近，仿佛他能看到我们。
I wanted to be very quiet so that if he heard or saw anyone, he would not notice me.
我想保持安静，这样如果他听到或看到任何人，他就不会注意到我。
The man in the well started coughing, and Arthur volunteered, "There's some water in the bag.
井里的人开始咳嗽，亚瑟自告奋勇地说：“袋子里有一些水。
We all brought something."
我们都带来了一些东西。”
We could hear him moving around down there.
我们可以听到他在下面走动。
After a few minutes he asked us, "When are they coming?
几分钟后，他问我们：“他们什么时候来？
What did your parents say?" We all looked at each other, aware that he couldn't address anyone in particular.
你父母怎么说的？”我们都面面相觑，意识到他无法具体称呼任何人。
He must've understood this, because he called out in his thin, groping voice, "What are your names?"
他一定明白这一点，因为他用微弱、摸索的声音喊道：“你们叫什么名字？”
No one answered until Aaron, who was the oldest, said, "My father said he's coming with the police, and he knows what to do." We admired Aaron very much for coming up with this on the spot.
没人回答，直到最年长的亚伦说：“我父亲说他会和警察一起来，他知道该怎么做。”我们非常钦佩 Aaron 当场想出了这个主意。
"Are they on their way?" The man in the well asked.
“他们在路上吗？”井里的人问道。
We could hear that he was eating.
我们可以听到他正在吃东西。
"My father said, don't worry, because he's coming with the police."
“我父亲说，别担心，因为他会和警察一起来的。”
Little Jason came up next to Aaron and asked, "What's your name," because we still don't know what to call him.
小杰森走到亚伦旁边，问道：“你叫什么名字？”因为我们仍然不知道该叫他什么。
When we were talking among ourselves, he had simply become the man.
当我们互相交谈时，他就变成了那个人。
He didn't answer, so Jason asked him how old he was, and then Grace came up too and asked him something, I don't remember.
他没有回答，所以杰森问他多大了，然后格蕾丝也走了过来，问了他一些事情，我不记得了。
Finally, we all stopped talking, and we lay down on the cement.
最后，我们都不再说话了，躺在水泥地上。
It was a hot day, so after a while, Grace got up, and then little Jason, and another young boy, Robert, I think, and went to town to sit in the cool movie theater.
天气很热，所以过了一会儿，格蕾丝起床了，然后是小杰森，还有另一个小男孩，我想是罗伯特，去了城里凉爽的电影院。
That was what we did most afternoons back then.
这就是我们当时大多数下午所做的事情。
After an hour, everyone had left except Wendy and myself, and I was beginning to think that I would go, too.
一个小时后，除了温迪和我之外，所有人都离开了，我开始想我也要去。
He called up to us all of a sudden.
他突然打电话给我们。
"Are they coming now?" "Yes," Wendy said, looking at me, and I nodded my head.
“他们现在来吗？” “是的，”温蒂看着我说，我点点头。
She sounded certain.
她听起来很肯定。
"Aaron said his dad is almost here." As soon as she said it she was sorry, because she'd broken one of the rules.
“亚伦说他爸爸快到了。”她一说出来就很抱歉，因为她违反了其中一条规则。
I could see it on her face, eyes filling with space as she moved back from the well.
我可以在她的脸上看到这一点，当她从井里走回来时，眼睛里充满了空虚。
Now he had one of our names.
现在他有了我们的名字之一。
She said, "They're going to come," to cover up the mistake.
她说，“他们会来的”，以掩盖错误。
There it was, and there was nothing to do about it.
事情就这样发生了，而且没有什么可做的。
The man in the well didn't say anything for a few minutes, then he surprised us again by asking, "Is it going to rain?" Wendy stood up and turned around, like she had done the other day.
井里的人几分钟没有说话，然后他再次让我们惊讶地问：“要下雨吗？”温蒂站起来，转身，就像她那天所做的那样。
The sky was clear.
天空晴朗。
"No," she said.
“不，”她说。
Then he asked again, "They're coming, you said, Aaron's dad?" And he shouted, "Right," so that we jumped and stood up and began running away, just as we had the day before.
然后他又问：“你说他们来了，亚伦的爸爸？”他喊道：“对”，我们就跳起来，站起来，开始逃跑，就像前一天一样。
We could hear him shouting for a while, and we were afraid someone might hear.
我们能听到他喊了一会儿，我们担心有人听到。
I thought that toward the end maybe he had said he was sorry, but I never asked Wendy what she thought he'd said.
我想最后他可能会说对不起，但我从未问过温迪她认为他说了什么。
Everyone was there again on the following morning.
第二天早上，每个人都又到了那里。
It was all I could think about during supper the night before, and then the anticipation in the morning over breakfast.
这是我在前一天晚上吃晚饭时所能想到的一切，然后是早上早餐时的期待。
My mother was very upset with something at the time.
我妈妈当时因为一件事很不高兴。
I could hear her weeping at night in her room downstairs, and the stubborn murmur of my father.
晚上我能听到她在楼下房间里哭泣，还有我父亲固执的低语。
There was a feeling to those days, months, actually, that I can't describe without resorting to the man in the well, as if through a great whispering, like a gathering of clouds, or the long sound, the turbulent wreck of the ocean.
事实上，那些日子、几个月里，我有一种感觉，如果不求助于井里的人，我就无法描述，仿佛通过一场伟大的低语，如云彩的聚集，或悠长的声音，如大海汹涌的残骸。
At the well, we put together the things to eat we had smuggled out, but we hadn't even gotten them all in the bag when the voice of the man in the well soared out sharply, "They're on their way now." We stood very still so that he couldn't hear us, but I knew what was coming, and I couldn't do anything to soften or blur the words of the voice.
到了井边，我们把偷运出来的吃的东西都收拾起来，还没全部装进袋子里，井里人的声音就陡然响起：“已经上路了。”我们一动不动地站着，这样他就听不到我们的声音，但我知道接下来会发生什么，但我无法做任何事情来软化或模糊那个声音的话语。
"Aaron," he pronounced, and I had imagined him practicing that voice, all night long, and holding it in his mouth so that he wouldn't let it slip away in his sleep.
“亚伦，”他喊道，我想象着他整晚都在练习这个声音，并把它含在嘴里，以免它在睡梦中溜走。
Aaron lost all the color in his face, and he looked at us with suspicion, as if we had somehow taken on a part of the man in the well.
艾伦的脸色失去了所有的颜色，他怀疑地看着我们，就好像我们以某种方式吸收了井里人的一部分。
I didn't even glance at Wendy.
我连看都没看温蒂一眼。
We were both too embarrassed.
我们俩都太尴尬了。
Neither of us said anything.
我们谁也没说话。
We were all quiet then.
当时我们都很安静。
Arthur finished assembling the bag, and we could see his hand shaking as he dropped it into the well.
亚瑟完成了袋子的组装，我们可以看到当他把袋子扔进井里时，他的手在颤抖。
We heard the man in the well moving around.
我们听到井里那个人走动的声音。
After 10 minutes or so, Grace called down to him, "What's your name?" But someone pulled her back from the well, and we became silent again.
大约十分钟后，格蕾丝对他喊道：“你叫什么名字？”但有人把她从井里拉了回来，我们又陷入了沉默。
Today the question humiliated us with its simplicity.
今天，这个问题的简单性让我们感到羞辱。
There was no sound for a while from the well, except for the cloth noises and the scraping the man in the well made as he moved around.
井里一时间没有任何声音，只有布的声音和井里人走动时发出的刮擦声。
Then he called out, in a pleasant voice, "Aaron, what do you think my name is?" Aaron, who had been very still this whole time, looked around at all of us again.
然后他用好听的声音喊道：“阿伦，你觉得我叫什么名字？”一直一动不动的艾伦再次环顾四周。
We knew he was afraid.
我们知道他很害怕。
His fingers were pulling with a separate life at the collar of his shirt, and maybe because she felt badly for him, Wendy answered instead.
他的手指带着独立的生命拉扯着他的衬衫领子，也许是因为她为他感到难过，温蒂接了电话。
"Edgar." It sounded inane, but the man in the well answered.
“埃德加。”这听起来很愚蠢，但井里的人却回答了。
"No," the man said.
“不，”男人说。
Little Jason called out, "David?" "No," the man in the well said.
小杰森喊道：“大卫？” “不，”井里的人说。
Then Aaron, who had been absolutely quiet, said, "Arthur," in a small, clear voice, and we all started.
然后一直保持安静的亚伦用小而清晰的声音说：“亚瑟。”然后我们都开始了。
I could see Arthur was furious, but Aaron was older and bigger than he was, and nothing could be said or done without giving himself, his name, away.
我看得出来亚瑟很愤怒，但亚伦比他年纪更大，块头更大，无论说什么或做什么，都不能不透露自己、他的名字。
We knew the man in the well was listening for the changes in our breath, anything.
我们知道井里的人正在倾听我们呼吸的变化，任何事情。
Aaron didn't look at Arthur, or anyone, and then he began giving all of our names, one at a time.
亚伦没有看亚瑟，也没有看任何人，然后他开始报出我们所有人的名字，一次一个。
We all watched him, trembling, our faces the faces I'd seen pasted on the spectators in the freak tank when the circus had come to town.
我们都颤抖着看着他，我们的脸就像马戏团进城时我在怪异坦克里的观众身上看到的一样。
We were watching such a deformity take place before our eyes, and I remember the spasm of anger when he said my name, and felt the man in the well soak it up.
我们看着这样的畸形发生在我们眼前，我记得当他说出我的名字时，愤怒的痉挛，并感觉到井里的人吸收了它。
Because the man in the well understood.
因为男人心里很明白。
The man in the well didn't say anything now.
井里的人现在没有再说什么。
When Aaron was done, we all waited for the man in the well to speak up.
等阿龙说完，我们都等着井里的人说话。
I stood on one leg, then the other, and eventually I sat down.
我用一条腿站起来，然后用另一条腿站起来，最后我坐下了。
We had to wait for an hour, and today, no one wanted to leave to lie in the shade, or hide in the velvet movie seats.
我们不得不等了一个小时，而今天，没有人愿意离开去躺在阴凉处，或者躲在天鹅绒的电影座椅里。
At last, the man in the well said, "All right, then, Arthur, what do you think I look like?" We heard him cough a couple of times, and then the sound like the smacking of lips.
最后，井里的人说：“好吧，那么，亚瑟，你觉得我是什么样子？”我们听到他咳嗽了几声，然后是咂嘴的声音。
Arthur, who was sitting on the ground with his chin propped on his fists, didn't say anything.
亚瑟坐在地上，用拳头撑着下巴，没有说话。
How could he?
他怎么可以？
I knew I couldn't answer myself if the man in the well called me by name.
我知道，如果井里的人叫我的名字，我无法回答自己。
He called a few of us, and I watched the shudder move from face to face.
他叫了我们几个人来，我看到一张张脸都在颤抖。
Then he was quiet for a while.
然后他沉默了一会儿。
It was afternoon now, and the light was changing, withdrawing from the well.
现在已经是下午了，光线正在变化，从井里消失了。
It was as if the well was filling up with earth.
就好像这口井被土填满了。
The man in the well moved around a bit, and then he called Jason.
井里的人动了一下，然后给杰森打了电话。
He asked, "How old do you think I am, Jason?" He didn't seem to care that no one would answer, or he seemed to expect that no one would.
他问：“杰森，你猜我多大了？”他似乎并不在意没有人会回答，或者说他似乎预料到没有人会回答。
He said, "All right, what's my name?" He used everyone's name.
他说：“好吧，我叫什么名字？”他用了每个人的名字。
He asked everyone.
他问大家。
When he said my name, I felt the water clouding my eyes, and I wanted to throw stones, dirt, down the well to crush out his voice, but we couldn't do anything, none of us did, because then he would know.
当他说出我的名字时，我感觉水模糊了我的眼睛，我想往井里扔石头、泥土，压碎他的声音，但我们什么也做不了，我们谁也没有这么做，因为那样他就会知道。
In the evening, we could tell he was getting tired.
到了晚上，我们可以看出他累了。
He wasn't saying much, and seemed to have lost interest in us.
他没有多说什么，似乎对我们失去了兴趣。
Before we left that day, as we were rising quietly and looking at the dark shadows of the trees we had to move through to reach our homes, he said, "Why didn't you tell anyone?" He coughed.
那天我们离开之前，当我们静静地起身，看着我们必须穿过才能回家的树林的黑暗阴影时，他说：“你为什么不告诉任何人？”他咳嗽了一声。
"Didn't you want to tell anyone?" Perhaps he heard the hesitation in our breaths, but he wasn't going to help us now.
“你不想告诉任何人吗？”也许他听到了我们呼吸中的犹豫，但他现在不打算帮助我们。
It was almost night then, and we were spared the detail of having to see and read each other's faces.
那时已经是晚上了，我们不用再仔细观察对方的表情。
That night it rained, and I listened to the rain on the roof and my mother sobbing downstairs until I fell asleep.
那天晚上下雨了，我听着屋顶上的雨声和楼下妈妈的抽泣声，直到我睡着了。
After that, we didn't play by the well anymore.
从那以后，我们就不再在井边玩耍了。
Even when we were much older, we didn't go back.
即使我们年纪大了，我们也没有回去。
I will never go back.
我永远不会回去。
Ira Sher's story, "The Man in the Well," was originally published in The Chicago Review.
艾拉·谢尔的故事《井中人》最初发表在《芝加哥评论》上。
It was his first published story.
这是他第一篇发表的故事。
Just in case there's any ambiguity about it, it's a work of fiction.
以防万一有任何歧义，这是一部虚构的作品。
Ira Sher's the author of the novel, Gentlemen of Space.
艾拉·谢尔是小说《太空绅士》的作者。
Act three, Human Nature, The View from Kindergarten.
第三幕，人性，幼儿园的观点。
One old approach to raising children takes as its premise the idea of that children are by nature little monsters, whose destructive and selfish impulses have to be controlled, with physical force, if necessary.
一种古老的抚养孩子的方法以这样的观念为前提：孩子本质上是小怪物，必须控制他们的破坏性和自私冲动，必要时可以使用体力。
And so far in our program, we've provided, I think, a fair amount of evidence to support this particular school of thought.
到目前为止，在我们的计划中，我认为我们已经提供了大量的证据来支持这一特定的思想流派。
We've heard so far about boys taunting other boys in a cruel sort of survival of the fittest, we've heard about children leaving a man to die in a well.
到目前为止，我们听说过男孩们在残酷的适者生存中嘲笑其他男孩，我们也听说过孩子们把一个人丢在井里等死。
And so, for our final act, let's change things up a little bit.
因此，对于我们的最后一幕，让我们稍微改变一下。
I want to tell you about an experiment done in a kindergarten classroom by a teacher named Vivian Paley, and it was an experiment to make children less cruel to each other.
我想告诉大家一个名叫维维安·佩利（Vivian Paley）的老师在幼儿园教室里做的一个实验，这是一个让孩子们不那么残忍地对待彼此的实验。
Paley is the author of many books about education, including one about this classroom experiment, and she's a MacArthur Genius Grant recipient, though she's embarrassed whenever anybody actually says that as part of her credentials.
佩利是许多有关教育的书籍的作者，其中包括一本关于这个课堂实验的书，她是麦克阿瑟天才奖的获得者，尽管每当有人真正将这句话作为她的资历的一部分时，她都会感到尴尬。
And until recently, she was a kindergarten teacher at the University of Chicago Lab School.
直到最近，她还是芝加哥大学实验学校的幼儿园老师。
And she got the idea for her experiment when one day, it occurred to her how often she heard children in her classroom tell each other no. No, there's no room here for you to play with us.
有一天，她突然想到自己经常听到教室里的孩子们互相说“不”，于是她萌生了进行实验的想法。不，这里没有空间让你和我们一起玩。
No, I promised I would play the next 16 games with someone else.
不，我答应过我会和其他人一起打接下来的 16 场比赛。
No, we're already playing, you can't join in.
不，我们已经在玩了，你不能加入。
No, you cannot play with us.
不，你不能和我们一起玩。
And it was the same children, always, who were made into the outcasts.
总是同样的孩子被抛弃。
By kindergarten, Vivian Paley says, a ruling class starts to form among children.
维维安·佩利说，到了幼儿园，孩子们中就开始形成统治阶级。
Certain kids notify others of their acceptability, and certain kids are told they're unacceptable, over, and over, and over again.
某些孩子会告诉其他人他们的可接受性，而某些孩子则一遍又一遍地被告知他们是不可接受的。
And she points out that hitting and name calling are not allowed in school, but for some reason, this still is.
她指出，学校里不允许打人和辱骂，但出于某种原因，这种情况仍然存在。
It's every day.
每天都是如此。
It suddenly came to me that this hidden curriculum has taken over.
我突然意识到这个隐藏的课程已经占据了主导地位。
It's almost as if we're teaching children for an elitist life of bosses.
这几乎就像我们在教孩子们过上老板的精英生活一样。
Of course, we weren't.
当然，我们不是。
We were trying our best to dissuade them.
我们尽力劝阻他们。
Often, you would put your foot down.
通常，你会坚定不移。
Teachers do it all the time.
老师们一直在这样做。
"I'm going to have to insist that you let Johnny play." And before you knew it, the play area would empty.
“我必须坚持让约翰尼上场。”不知不觉间，游乐区就空了。
The kids would stop playing?
孩子们会停止玩耍吗？
Vivian Paley Yeah.
维维安·佩利 是的。
The cruelty of the children's behavior seemed clear enough.
孩子们的行为的残酷性似乎是显而易见的。
If adults went around telling each other, no, you cannot sit with us, no, we do not want you here, no, you have to go away, it would be clear that this is not the way to act.
如果大人到处告诉彼此，不，你不能和我们坐在一起，不，我们不想让你在这里，不，你必须走开，很明显，这不是正确的行为方式。
And so Vivian Paley proposed to her students that they have a new rule in the class.
因此，维维安·佩利向她的学生提议，他们在课堂上有一条新规则。
She wrote it up in front of the room.
她把它写在房间前面。
You can't say, you can't play.
你不能说，你不能玩。
That is, if someone wants to join your game, you have to let them.
也就是说，如果有人想加入你的游戏，你必须让他们加入。
And their initial reaction?
他们最初的反应是什么？
Disbelief.
怀疑。
Both the ones who did the rejecting and the ones who were already used to being rejected could not see how such a plan could work.
无论是那些拒绝的人，还是那些已经习惯被拒绝的人，都看不出这样的计划是如何运作的。
They understood the language.
他们听懂了这种语言。
They understood what I was saying.
他们明白我在说什么。
But their amazement and distrust and fear that they would not be able to handle what it was that I was talking about, that play would be spoiled, was very apparent.
但他们的惊讶、不信任和担心他们无法处理我所说的事情，比赛会被破坏，这是非常明显的。
Vivian Paley wasn't exactly sure what she should do, and so seeking some sort of input, she turned to the older children at the school where she taught.
维维安·佩利 (Vivian Paley) 不太确定自己应该做什么，因此她向她所任教的学校中年龄较大的孩子寻求某种意见。
She visited all the grades from first grade through fifth grade and explained her proposed new rule, you can't say you can't play, and asked the children if they thought it was fair, and if they thought that it could work.
她走访了从一年级到五年级的所有年级，解释了她提出的新规则“不能说你不能玩”，并询问孩子们是否认为这公平、是否可行。
And interestingly, what she ran into was a kind of pint size version of not in my backyard, not with me you don't.
有趣的是，她遇到的是一种品脱尺寸的版本，不在我的后院，不在我身边，你不会。
Third and fourth and fifth graders said the proposed rule might work with those kindergarten kids, because the kindergarten kids are nicer, and they're more willing to accept the rules from the teacher, but they said, kids their age, at their advanced age, were already way too mean with each other for this ever to catch hold.
三年级、四年级和五年级的学生表示，拟议的规则可能适用于那些幼儿园的孩子，因为幼儿园的孩子更友善，他们更愿意接受老师的规则，但他们说，他们这个年纪的孩子，在他们高龄时，彼此之间已经太刻薄了，所以这一点永远不会被接受。
And they had a kind of nostalgia, even in third, and fourth, and fifth grade, a kind of nostalgia, and would talk wistfully about the days when they themselves were nicer, back in kindergarten.
他们有一种怀旧之情，即使在三年级、四年级、五年级的时候，也会怀念地谈论自己在幼儿园时的美好时光。
From grade to grade going up, they were more and more convinced of two things, that it couldn't work, it was against human nature, but they all seemed to feel that it could have gone differently at a younger age.
随着年级的升高，他们越来越相信两件事：这是行不通的，这是违反人性的，但他们似乎都觉得，在年轻的时候，情况可能会有所不同。
When children said that it didn't seem natural, a lot of the argument just came down to the whole point of play was that they want to play with their friends, that it's an extension of friendship.
当孩子们说这看起来不自然时，很多争论都归结为玩耍的全部意义在于他们想和朋友一起玩，这是友谊的延伸。
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass And let me ask you to read from the book.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 让我请你读一下这本书。
You recorded and then transcribed the conversations you had with the children about this.
您记录并转录了您与孩子们就此进行的对话。
Let me ask you to read to the bottom of page 19.
让我请您读到第 19 页的底部。
Right, this is one of the first formal discussions we have on the issue of you can't say you can't play.
是的，这是我们就“你不能说你不能玩”这个问题进行的第一次正式讨论。
And this Angelo, who is about to speak, is certainly one of those who is-- not only feels himself, but is-- often rejected.
即将讲话的安杰洛无疑是那些经常被拒绝的人之一，他不仅感觉自己是这样，而且还经常被拒绝。
Angelo, "Let anybody play if someone asks."
安吉洛：“如果有人要求，就让任何人玩。”
Lisa, "But then what's the whole point of playing?"
丽莎：“那么玩的意义何在呢？”
Nelson, "You just want Cynthia."
尼尔森：“你只想要辛西娅。”
Lisa, "I could play alone.
丽莎：“我可以一个人玩。
Why can't Clara play alone?"
为什么克拉拉不能一个人玩？”
Clara was one of the other children who was often rejected.
克拉拉是其他经常被拒绝的孩子之一。
Often rejected, and goes and sits in her cubby.
经常被拒绝，然后去坐在她的小房间里。
Right.
正确的。
Vivian Paley Angelo, "I think that's pretty sad.
维维安·佩利·安吉洛，“我认为这非常令人悲伤。
People that is alone, they has water in their eyes."
孤独的人，眼睛里都是水。”
Lisa, "I'm more said if someone comes that I don't want to play with."
丽莎：“如果有人来了我不想和他一起玩，我会更说。”
Teacher, "Who is sadder?
老师：“谁更难过？
The one who isn't allowed to play, or the one who has to play with someone he or she doesn't want to play with?"
是不被允许玩的人，还是必须和他或她不想玩的人一起玩的人？”
Clara, "It's more sadder if you can't play."
克拉拉：“如果你不能玩的话，那就更难过了。”
Lisa, "The other one's the same sadder."
丽莎：“另一个也同样悲伤。”
Angelo, "It has to be Clara, because she puts herself away in her cubby, and Lisa can still play every time."
安吉洛：“一定是克拉拉，因为她把自己关在小房间里，而丽莎每次仍然可以玩。”
Lisa, "I can't play every time if I'm sad."
Lisa：“如果我很难过，我就不能每次都玩。”
One of the children you talk about a lot in the book is this girl who you call Lisa, and when you put the rule into effect the first day, Lisa, you say, she pouts, "It's not fair at all.
你在书中经常谈论的一个孩子是这个女孩，你称之为丽莎，当你第一天实施这条规则时，丽莎，你说，她撅着嘴说：“这根本不公平。
I thought we were only just talking about it."
我以为我们只是在谈论它。”
Right Ira Glass "I just want my own friends.
对了，艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）“我只想要我自己的朋友。
What if someone isn't nice and hits me?" And then the discussion, you say, "Well, you know we have a rule about hitting." And then Lisa's not impressed with this, and she says, "There's some people I don't like." And there's this really amazing moment where Angelo says, you write here, Angelo says without emotion, "You don't like me." And everyone looks at him as if acknowledging the sad truth of his statement.
万一有人不怀好意打我怎么办？”然后讨论，你说，“好吧，你知道我们有关于击球的规则。”然后丽莎对此不以为然，她说：“有些人我不喜欢。”有一个非常令人惊奇的时刻，安杰洛说，你写在这里，安杰洛毫无感情地说，“你不喜欢我。”每个人都看着他，仿佛承认他的话中的悲伤事实。
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass What happened once the rule kicked in?
Ira Glass 规则生效后发生了什么？
How much did you see Lisa resist?
你看到丽莎有多少抵抗力？
I mean, what finally happened?
我的意思是，最后发生了什么？
Within a week it was as if this had always been the way life would be.
一周之内，生活就好像一直如此。
And she was-- it was a tremendous event for Lisa.
这对丽莎来说是一件了不起的事情。
And if I may add parenthetically, it's not in the book, but all the years later, whenever Lisa, the child I call Lisa, met me in the hallway, she would always stop and ask me how is the rule doing, and give me an example of something she had done that showed she was still trying to follow the rule.
如果我可以补充一下，这本书里没有，但多年以后，每当丽莎（我叫丽莎的孩子）在走廊遇见我时，她总是停下来问我规则执行得怎么样，并给我举一个她所做的事情的例子，表明她仍在努力遵守规则。
The last time I met her was in the grocery store with her mother, and she said, "Mrs. Paley, it's still pretty hard for me, but I know I can do it, and I always try." And her mother nodded, and said, "She really does, you know."
我最后一次见到她是和她妈妈在杂货店，她说：“佩利夫人，这对我来说仍然很难，但我知道我能做到，而且我总是在尝试。”她妈妈点点头，说道：“你知道，她确实这么做了。”
Vivian Paley.
维维安·佩利。
Back when her class was debating the new rule, she wondered, can you really legislate this type of morality?
当她的班级讨论新规则时，她想知道，你真的可以立法这种道德吗？
Can you order people to be kind to each other, not to exclude others?
你能命令人们彼此友善，而不是排斥他人吗？
"Is there not," she wrote, "a natural desire to include certain people and exclude others?"
“难道没有一种自然的愿望，”她写道，“包容某些人而排斥其他人吗？”
And, she says, that once I put the new rule into effect, there was a palpable sense of relief in her class, as if they'd been rescued from meanness.
而且，她说，一旦我将新规则付诸实施，她的班级里就有一种明显的解脱感，就好像他们从卑鄙中被拯救出来一样。
The children were grateful for a structure that let them feel good about themselves and each other.
孩子们很感激这种让他们对自己和彼此感觉良好的结构。
Her book, You Can't Say You Can't Play, is published by Harvard University Press.
她的书《你不能说你不会玩》由哈佛大学出版社出版。
Yeah, let's go.
是的，我们走吧。
Our program was produced today by Nancy Updike and myself, with Peter Clowney, Alix Spiegel, and Dolores Wilbur.
今天我们的节目由南希·厄普代克和我本人、彼得·克劳尼、阿利克斯·斯皮格尔和多洛雷斯·威尔伯共同制作。
This is our production manager Todd Bachmann's last week on the program.
这是我们的制作经理托德·巴赫曼参加该节目的最后一周。
He's actually been our production manager since we've had a production manager, years and years.
事实上，自从我们有生产经理以来，他已经担任我们的生产经理很多年了。
So much about our radio show, and the fact that our computers run, the fact that we actually have network computers, the fact that or contributors get promptly paid, to the existence of our online store, are thanks to him.
我们的广播节目、我们的计算机运行的事实、我们实际上拥有网络计算机的事实、贡献者及时得到报酬的事实、我们在线商店的存在，都归功于他。
It's going to be very hard to work around here without him.
没有他，在这里工作将会非常困难。
That we wish him the best.
我们祝他一切顺利。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org, where you can listen to our programs for absolutely free, or buy CDs of them, or, Todd asked me to say this, we just started selling the DVD of the cartoon slide show about Louis Sullivan and his architecture that I did with Chris Ware.
我们的网站，www.thisamericanlife.org，您可以在这里完全免费地收听我们的节目，或者购买它们的 CD，或者，托德让我这么说，我们刚刚开始销售关于路易斯·沙利文和他的建筑的卡通幻灯片 DVD，这是我和克里斯·威尔一起制作的。
That's www.thisamericanlife.org.
这是 www.thisamericanlife.org。
You know, you can download today's program in our archives at audible.com/thisamericanlife.
您知道，您可以在我们的档案库中下载今天的节目：audible.com/thisamericanlife。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who I met this way.
[资金来源] 我通过这种方式认识的 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的项目进行了 WBEZ 管理监督。
What started off as name calling soon escalated to a series of mock angry slaps.
一开始的辱骂很快就升级为一系列假装愤怒的耳光。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。