258: Leaving the Fold - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #258 | April 11, 2008 258: Leaving the Fold Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 258 集 | 2008 年 4 月 11 日 258：离开折叠 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass It really is the damnedest thing.
序言 Ira Glass 这确实是最该死的事情。
Chris will tell you that himself.
克里斯会亲自告诉你这一点。
When he was in the army, when he was flying around in helicopters taking enemy fire, he was terrified.
当他在军队的时候，当他乘坐直升机飞来飞去承受敌人的火力时，他感到害怕。
He never thought he'd look back on it later and miss anything about it.
他没想到后来回想起来，会错过任何事情。
At the time, no. I figured I'm not going to miss this.
当时，没有。我想我不会错过这个。
Why am I going to miss this?
为什么我会错过这个？
Somebody's constantly shooting at me, trying to kill me, trying to kill the guys that I'm working with.
有人不断地向我开枪，试图杀死我，试图杀死与我一起工作的人。
You've got to be out of your mind if you miss this.
如果你错过了这个，你一定是疯了。
You know?
你知道？
But then, down the road, you think well, I really miss that excitement.
但后来，你想想，我真的很怀念那种兴奋。
I miss that danger.
我怀念那种危险。
I miss the action.
我想念这个动作。
Ira Glass Fred Sallatore came back from war and got a job selling insurance in Texas.
艾拉·格拉斯·弗雷德·萨拉托雷从战争中归来，在德克萨斯州找到了一份销售保险的工作。
The adrenaline rush is so great.
肾上腺素激增的感觉是如此强烈。
And there are not many times you and I, in our walk of life, are in a situation where the decisions we make impact the lives and deaths of others.
在我们的生活中，你和我很少会遇到这样的情况：我们所做的决定会影响他人的生死。
And this is the thing I was really curious about is when you came back, did your regular life seem kind of stupid?
我真正好奇的是，当你回来后，你的日常生活是否显得有些愚蠢？
Yes.
是的。
Not so much dumb or stupid, but boring.
不是那么愚蠢或愚蠢，而是无聊。
And there wasn't much to it.
并没有太多的内容。
You get up at 5:30.
你5点30分起床。
And you're in the office by 7:30.
您将于 7:30 到达办公室。
And you go home about 6:30.
然后你大约 6:30 回家。
And it's just anti-climactic, I suppose.
我想这只是反高潮。
And, when you're 23 years old, it's a little depressing, initially.
而且，当你 23 岁的时候，一开始会有点沮丧。
When did you find something that was as intense as the military to replace the military?
什么时候找到了像军队一样激烈的东西来代替军队？
I haven't.
我没有。
Ira Glass Fred's army service in Vietnam ended in 1967.
艾拉·格拉斯·弗雷德 (Ira Glass Fred) 在越南的兵役于 1967 年结束。
Chris left Vietnam in '69, and it took Chris a while to figure out what to do with himself when he came home.
克里斯于 69 年离开越南，克里斯花了一段时间才弄清楚回家后该做什么。
Nothing felt right after what he'd been through.
经历过这些之后，他什么感觉都没有了。
He went from job to job until he signed up with the Baltimore Fire Department.
他换了一份工作，直到与巴尔的摩消防局签约。
And let me tell you, when I got out of the fire academy and I was assigned to my first unit, and I had my very first fire, I was scared to death.
让我告诉你，当我离开消防学院并被分配到第一个单位时，我第一次发生火灾，我被吓死了。
My adrenaline was just pumping big time.
我的肾上腺素激增。
And it was a cool feeling, believe it or not.
不管你信不信，这种感觉很酷。
It was a cool feeling.
这是一种很酷的感觉。
It was something that I had missed for a long, long time.
这是我怀念很久很久的事情。
And I know that sounds kind of strange, but the things that I hated the most were the things that I missed the most.
我知道这听起来有点奇怪，但我最讨厌的事情正是我最怀念的事情。
It is a little strange, but I have to say it makes complete sense.
这有点奇怪，但我不得不说这是完全有道理的。
At some point or another, all of us have been in some situation where all we could think about was we couldn't wait for it end.
在某些时候，我们所有人都曾经历过某种情况，我们所能想到的就是我们迫不及待地等待它结束。
To get out of school, to move away from our parents, to leave the church, or the job, or the band, or the city that we're in, we can't wait.
要离开学校，离开父母，离开教堂，离开工作，离开乐队，离开我们所在的城市，我们都等不及了。
And then later, when we look back, there was something about that place that we hated that we just cannot get out of our system.
后来，当我们回头看时，我们讨厌那个地方的一些东西，我们就是无法摆脱我们的系统。
These were, actually, just the most extreme possible example of that kind of thing.
事实上，这些只是此类事情最极端的例子。
Literally, they were in a situation where people were trying to kill them and, when they look back, they think you know, that wasn't all bad.
从字面上看，他们处于人们试图杀死他们的境地，当他们回头看时，他们认为你知道，这并不全是坏事。
Well, you're listening to This American Life from Chicago Public Radio, distributed by Public Radio International.
好吧，您正在收听芝加哥公共广播电台的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today, on our program, we bring you three stories of people leaving the fold and leaving parts of themselves behind when they do it.
今天，在我们的节目中，我们为您带来三个故事，讲述人们在离开时，留下了自己的一部分。
Act One of our show, I've Got A Secret I've Been Hiding From You.
我们的节目第一幕，我有一个一直向你隐瞒的秘密。
In that act, my friend, prepare to be shocked.
在那个举动中，我的朋友，准备好感到震惊吧。
We have the true story of Jerry Springer in his first career as a politician, an idealistic politician, who fought hard for what he thought was right and was popular to boot, successful.
我们有杰里·斯普林格在他作为政治家的第一个职业生涯中的真实故事，一个理想主义的政治家，他为他认为正确的事情而奋斗，并且很受欢迎，成功了。
Act Two, God And Hockey.
第二幕，上帝与曲棍球。
In that act, a smack down between the God of the Old Testament and the New York Rangers for the souls of a young couple from New Jersey.
在那一幕中，旧约之神和纽约游骑兵队之间为了一对来自新泽西的年轻夫妇的灵魂而进行了一场重击。
Act Three, Nuns Amok.
第三幕，疯狂的修女。
Some nuns in the mountains of Appalachia decide they want to be nuns just without the Catholic church.
阿巴拉契亚山区的一些修女决定，她们想在没有天主教堂的情况下当修女。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, I've Got A Secret I've Been Hiding From You.
第一幕，我有一个一直瞒着你的秘密。
Chances are-- I think I'm pretty safe in guessing this, you do not think that you need to learn anything else about trash TV talk show host, Jerry Springer.
很有可能——我想我的猜测是相当有把握的，你认为你不需要学习任何关于垃圾电视脱口秀主持人杰里·斯普林格的其他知识。
You pretty much have an opinion about him.
你对他很有意见。
You know what you think of him.
你知道你对他的看法。
Our producer, Alex Blumberg, grew up in the city where Springer was Mayor years ago, and he put together this story.
我们的制片人亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）在斯普林格多年前担任市长的城市长大，他整理了这个故事。
Jerry Springer arrived in Cincinnati in 1969 fresh out of law school with a job at a downtown firm.
杰里·斯普林格 (Jerry Springer) 1969 年刚从法学院毕业来到辛辛那提，在市中心的一家公司工作。
In just six months he announced he was running for Congress against the conservative incumbent.
仅仅六个月后，他就宣布将与保守派现任议员竞选国会议员。
He was 25.
那年他25岁。
He had no experience.
他没有经验。
Nobody had ever heard of him.
没有人听说过他。
But he was against the war in Vietnam, and he supported civil rights.
但他反对越南战争，支持公民权利。
And here's the thing you might not guess: he was fantastic.
但有一件事你可能猜不到：他太棒了。
Patricia Garry and Jene Galvin are both Cincinnati political veterans.
帕特里夏·加里（Patricia Garry）和珍·加尔文（Jene Galvin）都是辛辛那提的政治资深人士。
Here's how they remember him.
这就是他们如何记住他的。
He was, absolutely, the most gifted, natural politician I ever saw.
他绝对是我见过的最有天赋、最天生的政治家。
And the grandmothers all loved him.
祖母们都很爱他。
The daughters all loved him.
女儿们都很爱他。
The brothers and sisters, everybody was a good friend of his.
兄弟姐妹们，大家都是他的好朋友。
They were great.
他们很棒。
I mean, there was always a kind of a glamor around him where he was, clearly, a golden boy.
我的意思是，他周围总是有一种魅力，他显然是一个金童。
I put Springer at the level of Ronald Reagan, Bobby Kennedy, Bill Clinton.
我把施普林格视为罗纳德·里根、鲍比·肯尼迪、比尔·克林顿的水平。
He's that level.
他就是这个水平。
And it's not just local Cincinnati people who feel this way about Springer.
对施普林格有这种感觉的不仅仅是辛辛那提当地人。
Mike Ford met Springer back in the '70's, but has moved up in politics and is, today, a Democratic political strategist at the national level most recently hired to consult with the Dean Campaign.
迈克·福特 (Mike Ford) 早在 70 年代就认识了施普林格，但后来在政治上晋升，如今是一名国家级民主党政治战略家，最近受聘为迪恩竞选团队提供咨询。
I worked with Clinton, '90, '92.
我和克林顿一起工作过，90、92年。
'88, Dukakis.
'88，杜卡基斯。
'80, I worked for Kennedy.
80 年代，我为肯尼迪工作。
'76, I went through Birch Bagh, Morrie Udall and Jimmy Carter.
76 年，我经历了 Birch Bagh、Morrie Udall 和 Jimmy Carter。
He's the best I've ever seen, bar none.
他是我见过的最好的人，没有之一。
Hey, welcome to the show.
嘿嘿，欢迎来到节目。
How you doing?
你好吗？
My guests, today, say they're cold-hearted mistresses who are proud to be breaking up marriages.
今天我的客人说她们是冷酷无情的情妇，以破坏婚姻为荣。
Please meet Holly.
请认识一下霍莉。
She says she does more than just babysit her friend's three kids.
她说她所做的不仅仅是照顾朋友的三个孩子。
Holly, what is going on?
霍莉，发生什么事了？
It's kind of a long drop from wanting to save the world to hosting TV shows with titles like I Have Sex With My Twin and I Want To Be A Teen Stripper .
从想要拯救世界到主持诸如《我和我的双胞胎发生性关系》和《我想成为一名青少年脱衣舞娘》之类的电视节目，这是一个漫长的下降。
The story of Jerry Springer is the story of an act of transformation so complete and so total that most people don't even know it happened.
杰瑞·斯普林格的故事是一个关于转变的故事，这种转变如此彻底、如此彻底，以至于大多数人甚至不知道它发生了。
It's really the story of two Jerry Springers: one known only to a pocket of people in Southwest Ohio and as the heir apparent to progressive politics in America.
这实际上是两个杰里·斯普林格的故事：其中一个只有俄亥俄州西南部的一小部分人知道，他是美国进步政治的明显继承人。
The other known the world over as the king of trash TV.
另一个被全世界称为垃圾电视之王。
Go ahead, tell her.
去吧，告诉她。
Holly Theresa, I was screwing your husband.
霍莉·特蕾莎，我和你丈夫上床了。
And he loves having sex with this.
他喜欢与此发生性关系。
Jerry!
杰瑞！
Jerry!
杰瑞！
Jerry!
杰瑞！
Mike Ford Well, he was Kennedy-like, very bright.
迈克·福特 嗯，他就像肯尼迪一样，非常聪明。
This is a comparison that comes up a lot when people talk about the other Jerry Springer, and it's no coincidence.
当人们谈论另一个杰里·斯普林格时，这种比较经常出现，这并非巧合。
The summer before Springer first ran for office in Cincinnati, he'd worked as a volunteer with Bobby Kennedy's presidential campaign.
施普林格首次在辛辛那提竞选公职之前的那个夏天，他曾作为志愿者参与鲍比·肯尼迪的总统竞选活动。
Here's Jene Galvin.
这是珍·加尔文。
When Jerry got to Cincinnati, he had a Boston/Harvard/Kennedy accent.
当杰瑞到达辛辛那提时，他有波士顿/哈佛/肯尼迪口音。
He doesn't have it anymore, but we got here, he had it.
他不再拥有它了，但我们到了这里，他拥有了它。
If you hear any old tape of him from that era, see any video clips, Jerry Springer came to town talking like Bobby Kennedy.
如果你听过他那个时代的任何旧磁带，看到任何视频剪辑，杰里·斯普林格来到城里就像鲍比·肯尼迪一样说话。
My campaign is based upon the proposition that the answers to the problems which currently plague our cities, our towns, and our homes, are not to be found in the decisions in Washington.
我的竞选活动基于这样一个主张：目前困扰我们城市、城镇和家园的问题的答案不能在华盛顿的决定中找到。
They are, instead, to be found in the hearts, minds, and resources of our own people here at home.
相反，它们存在于我们国内人民的心灵、思想和资源中。
On old footage from this campaign, Springer looks even younger than He looks like a kid in one of his father's suits pretending to be Bobby Kennedy.
在这次竞选活动的旧镜头中，斯普林格看起来比他还要年轻，他看起来就像一个穿着他父亲的一套西装假装是鲍比·肯尼迪的孩子。
But crowds loved him.
但人们爱他。
He seemed like somebody reaching for something big even when he's talking about business prosperity and the gross national product.
即使当他谈论商业繁荣和国民生产总值时，他似乎也像一个追求伟大目标的人。
The GNP, by itself, is no mark of our national achievement for it includes smokestacks that pollute, drugs that destroy, and ambulances which clear our highways of human wreckage.
国民生产总值本身并不是我们国家成就的标志，因为它包括造成污染的烟囱、造成破坏的毒品以及清除高速公路上的人员残骸的救护车。
It includes a mugger's knife, a rioter's bomb, and Oswald's rifle.
其中包括一把劫匪的刀、一枚暴徒的炸弹和奥斯瓦尔德的步枪。
But, if the GNP tells us all this, there is much that it does not tell us.
但是，如果国民党告诉了我们这一切，那么还有很多事情它没有告诉我们。
It says nothing of the health of our families, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play.
它没有提到我们家庭的健康、他们的教育质量或他们玩耍的乐趣。
Springer was running in one of the whitest and most conservative parts of a very conservative city against a 10-year incumbent, and he lost that first race.
斯普林格在一座非常保守的城市里最白人、最保守的地区之一与一位十年的现任议员竞选，他输掉了第一场比赛。
It was the last time he would lose an election for the next decade.
这是他在接下来的十年里最后一次在选举中失败。
One year later, he ran for and was elected to the Cincinnati City Council.
一年后，他竞选并当选为辛辛那提市议会议员。
Tim Burke was his legislative aide on the council.
蒂姆·伯克是他在委员会的立法助理。
Jerry could go into a VFW hall and talk about why he was opposed to the war in Vietnam, and that was not a popular thing to do.
杰里可以走进 VFW 大厅谈论他为什么反对越南战争，但这并不是一件受欢迎的事情。
He wouldn't convince VFW folks, at least not the majority of them, that they should come out against the war in Vietnam, that wasn't in their nature.
他不会说服 VFW 的人，至少不会说服他们中的大多数人，他们应该站出来反对越南战争，这不是他们的本性。
But he'd walk out of that room and they'd like him.
但只要他走出那个房间，他们就会喜欢他。
And this is the remarkable thing about Jerry Springer, the politician.
这就是政治家杰里·斯普林格的非凡之处。
He has connect-ability that transcends specific viewpoints of people.
他具有超越人们特定观点的联系能力。
He'd get votes from West-siders saying I don't agree with anything you say, but I just like your style.
他会得到西区人的选票，说我不同意你所说的任何话，但我只是喜欢你的风格。
I like your guts.
我喜欢你的胆量。
The result of this was that, on City Council, Springer had an uncanny ability to bring a marginal message without actually marginalizing himself.
其结果是，在市议会，施普林格拥有一种不可思议的能力，可以在不真正边缘化自己的情况下带来边缘信息。
Again, here's Tim Burke, Springer's legislative aide.
再次请来蒂姆·伯克，施普林格的立法助理。
In 1971, when Jerry was elected to City Council, there was a proposal to build Riverfront arena, and the proposal was to do it with public dollars.
1971年，当杰里当选为市议会议员时，有人提议建造河滨竞技场，该提议是用公共资金来建造。
And the original vote on council, as to how that was going to go, was an eight to one vote.
理事会最初的投票结果是八比一。
Jerry was the only one who opposed it.
杰瑞是唯一反对的人。
Opposed doing it?
反对这样做？
Tim Burke Opposed doing it with public dollars.
蒂姆·伯克反对用公共资金来做这件事。
And the day of a critical vote, two members of Council were away.
关键投票当天，两名理事会成员缺席。
And it needed seven votes in order to meet certain of the procedural requirements.
它需要七票才能满足某些程序要求。
Jerry refused to give them the procedural vote, which had been the tradition.
杰里拒绝给予他们程序性投票，这一直是传统。
You don't hold something up on a procedural vote.
你不会在程序性投票中拖延任何事情。
You're free to vote against it on the merits, but you don't hold it up on-- well, Jerry bucked tradition, and then started just talking about why this was a bad thing to do, and we ought not to be publicly financing these things that ought to be supported by private business.
你可以自由地根据案情投反对票，但你不能拖延——好吧，杰里违背了传统，然后开始谈论为什么这是一件坏事，我们不应该公开资助这些应该由私营企业支持的事情。
And, in the end, he captured the attention of the citizens of Cincinnati.
最终，他引起了辛辛那提市民的注意。
They rallied to his side.
他们聚集到他一边。
The other politicians on Council got that message.
委员会的其他政治家也明白了这一点。
And Riverfront Coliseum was built with private dollars, with very little public subsidy involved.
河滨体育馆是用私人资金建造的，几乎没有涉及公共补贴。
And you don't see that happening in stadiums and arenas today.
如今，您在体育场和竞技场中看不到这种情况发生。
Oh, it really got you going, I'll tell you.
哦，我告诉你，它确实让你前进。
Guy Guckenberger is a Republican and was one of Springer's Council opponents on Riverfront Coliseum funding.
盖伊·古肯伯格 (Guy Guckenberger) 是共和党人，也是施普林格议会反对河滨体育馆资助的人之一。
He said it wasn't any fun being on the other side of an issue from Springer.
他说，在斯普林格的问题上站在另一边没有任何乐趣。
I mean, he'd make a public appeal and state a public position for an issue, and you either went with him or you were the bad guy.
我的意思是，他会公开呼吁并针对某个问题表明公开立场，而你要么支持他，要么你就是坏人。
I mean, you didn't have any choice then.
我的意思是，那时你没有任何选择。
In 1974, Springer got elected to a second term with more votes than anyone else in City Council.
1974年，施普林格以比市议会中任何人都多的票数当选连任。
Six months later, he resigned in a scandal.
六个月后，他因丑闻辞职。
An FBI investigation into an illegal massage parlor across the river in Kentucky revealed that he'd been a repeat customer.
联邦调查局对肯塔基州河对岸一家非法按摩院的调查显示，他是一名回头客。
How did they know?
他们怎么知道的？
He'd paid for a prostitute with a check.
他用支票付钱请妓。
Tim Burke was his legislative aide at the time.
蒂姆·伯克当时是他的立法助理。
We went something like 10 days in a row with the headline story in The Cincinnati Enquirer .
我们连续 10 天登上了《辛辛那提问询报》的头条新闻。
Jerry was going through all kinds of personal hell, so was his wife, obviously.
杰瑞正在经历各种个人地狱，显然他的妻子也是如此。
So was his family, as he had to call them and explain to them what he had done and what it was doing.
他的家人也是如此，因为他必须打电话给他们并向他们解释他做了什么以及正在做什么。
And this was a young man with an absolutely terrific career ahead of him and it looked like it has all been destroyed.
这是一个年轻人，他的职业生涯绝对辉煌，但看起来一切都被摧毁了。
And you, personally, what were your thoughts?
而你个人，你的想法是什么？
Part of it was what the hell were you doing?
部分原因是你到底在做什么？
Why would you throw away this terrific political career you had in front of you for a few minutes?
你为什么要暂时放弃眼前这个了不起的政治生涯呢？
At the time, it seemed that people weren't angry at the act as much as they were at the sheer stupidity of paying for it by check.
当时，人们似乎并没有对这种行为感到愤怒，而是对用支票支付的愚蠢行为感到愤怒。
But Springer was clearly shaken.
但施普林格显然感到震惊。
The minute the facts became public, he resigned from Council.
事实一曝光，他就辞去市议员职务。
So quickly, in fact, that his colleague seemed a little shocked.
事实上，速度如此之快，以至于他的同事似乎有点震惊。
I think Jerry would tell the story that his initial thoughts were I'm going to resign.
我认为杰里会讲述这个故事，他最初的想法是我要辞职。
I'm disgraced.
我很丢脸。
I'm leaving town.
我要离开小镇了
I'm going to go start a new life someplace else.
我要去别的地方开始新的生活。
Within about 24 hours, he and his wife Micki, and his other friends decided that wasn't the way to do it.
大约 24 小时内，他和妻子 Micki 以及其他朋友认为这不是解决办法。
And he held another press conference.
他又召开了一次新闻发布会。
And he just said here's what happened, here's what I did, I'm ashamed of it, I apologize, and just came and bared his soul to the Cincinnati public.
他只是说这就是发生的事情，这就是我所做的，我为此感到羞耻，我道歉，然后就来到辛辛那提向公众展示了他的灵魂。
And they rallied to him again.
他们再次聚集到他身边。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
Some of the nuns out at the College of Mount St. Joseph started a thing where they were sending stones and little pebbles to members of Cincinnati City Council trying to encourage them to reject Springer's resignation with the message he who is without sin should cast the first stone.
圣约瑟夫山学院的一些修女发起了一项活动，她们向辛辛那提市议会成员寄送石头和小卵石，试图鼓励他们拒绝施普林格的辞职，并传达这样的信息：无罪的人应该投下第一块石头。
It was tremendous the way that people responded to him.
人们对他的反应是巨大的。
And that was, really, what started his comeback.
这确实是他东山再起的开始。
After a few months, Springer took tentative steps to get back into public life and manages another run for City Council.
几个月后，斯普林格采取了试探性措施，重返公共生活，并再次竞选市议会议员。
The Democratic party wouldn't endorse him, but they did leave a spot open for him on the ballot.
民主党不会支持他，但他们确实在选票上为他留出了一个席位。
Jene Galvin went with him to campaign.
珍妮·加尔文和他一起去竞选。
The Saint Patrick's Day Parade in Cincinnati, at the time, was huge, huge.
当时辛辛那提的圣帕特里克节游行非常盛大。
It ran through the downtown streets.
它穿过市中心的街道。
Thousands of people would come.
成千上万的人会来。
You'd hope for great weather, and on this day we had great weather, a tremendous crowd.
你会希望天气很好，而这一天我们天气很好，人潮汹涌。
And as Jerry would come down through the crowd, they jeered him, they mocked him.
当杰瑞从人群中走下来时，他们嘲笑他，嘲笑他。
And some of it didn't mean they wouldn't vote for him, but they mocked him.
其中一些并不意味着他们不会投票给他，但他们嘲笑他。
"Hey, Jerry.
“嘿，杰瑞。
You got a check on ya?" "Hey, Jerry.
你有支票吗？” “嘿，杰瑞。
You're really stupid, aren't you?
你真的很蠢，不是吗？
Why'd you write a check?", just yelling all this stuff.
你为什么要写支票？”，只是大喊大叫。
And he would just sit there and smile and laugh and take it.
他只是坐在那里微笑着接受它。
And boy, my heart was kind of breaking for my buddy up on that back seat because I'm down driving this car.
天哪，我的心为坐在后座上的朋友感到心碎，因为我正在驾驶这辆车。
He just took a beating.
他刚刚挨了打。
Still, the campaign worked.
尽管如此，这项活动还是奏效了。
18 months after resigning from City Council in disgrace and admitting publicly that he'd paid for a prostitute with a check, Jerry Springer was elected by the citizens of Cincinnati to a third term on City Council.
杰里·斯普林格（Jerry Springer）耻辱地从市议会辞职并公开承认自己用支票嫖妓，18 个月后，辛辛那提市民选举他第三次担任市议会议员。
Two years later, back on the Democratic ticket again, he was elected Mayor, this time with the largest vote total in the city's history.
两年后，他再次回到民主党候选人名单中，当选为市长，这一次他获得了该市历史上最多的选票总数。
It's not going too far to say that, less than four years after being caught writing a check to a prostitute, Jerry Springer had become the most popular politician in Cincinnati, ever, partly because he was able to mock his own stupidity.
毫不夸张地说，在向妓女写支票被抓不到四年后，杰里·斯普林格就成为辛辛那提有史以来最受欢迎的政治家，部分原因是他能够嘲笑自己的愚蠢。
A rock and roll radio station convinced him to record a spoof commercial, a take-off on a popular credit card ad at the time.
一家摇滚广播电台说服他录制一段恶搞广告，模仿当时流行的信用卡广告。
Jerry Springer Hi.
杰里·斯普林格嗨。
Do you know me?
你知道我吗？
My face is seen all over Cincinnati, constantly.
我的脸在辛辛那提随处可见。
But when I travel, say across state lines, people don't know the difference between Jerry Springer and Gerry Ford, so that's why I carry this.
但当我旅行时，比如跨州旅行，人们不知道杰里·斯普林格和格里·福特之间的区别，所以这就是我携带这个的原因。
The American Expense Card, it's the card that's good at thousands of clubs and motels across the river.
美国消费卡，这张卡适用于河对岸的数千家俱乐部和汽车旅馆。
I can even get instant, hassle-free check approval.
我什至可以获得即时、轻松的支票批准。
For quick, enjoyable entertainment, it can't be beat.
对于快速、愉快的娱乐来说，它是无与伦比的。
Just like me.
就像我一样。
Most people, if they know the story at all, they know it wrong.
大多数人，即使他们知道这个故事，他们也知道是错误的。
They think Jerry Springer was Mayor, there was a prostitution scandal, he resigned, and then had nothing else to do but become the Jerry Springer of The Jerry Springer Show.
他们认为杰里·斯普林格是市长，发生了卖淫丑闻，他辞职了，然后无事可做，只能成为杰里·斯普林格秀中的杰里·斯普林格。
The truth is much stranger and more complicated.
事实却更加奇怪和复杂。
Jerry Springer became Mayor after the prostitute.
杰里·斯普林格在妓女之后成为市长。
And The Jerry Springer Show was a full decade and a half after that, during which time Springer left politics, more or less, on his own terms and then rose again to the top of an entirely different field-- television journalism.
《杰里·斯普林格秀》已经过去了整整十五年，在此期间，斯普林格或多或少地按照自己的意愿离开了政治，然后再次登上了一个完全不同的领域的顶峰——电视新闻业。
The president of the local teamsters union in Cincinnati and northern Kentucky is warning trucking companies to send trucks out in convoys after midnight on Monday.
辛辛那提和肯塔基州北部当地卡车司机工会主席警告卡车运输公司在周一午夜后将卡车组队出发。
This is Jerry Springer as he was known to Cincinnati and throughout the '80's-- local news anchor.
这是杰瑞·斯普林格（Jerry Springer），辛辛那提乃至整个 80 年代都熟知他——当地新闻主播。
Here's how he got there.
他是这样到达那里的。
In 1980, he stepped down as Mayor to run for Governor and lost in a tough, three-way race.
1980年，他辞去市长职务，竞选州长，但在一场艰难的三人竞选中落败。
When it was over, he was out of money and jobless, so he accepted an offer to anchor the local news at Channel 5, the lowest ranked local news program.
一切结束后，他身无分文，也失业了，所以他接受了在当地排名最低的新闻节目第五频道担任当地新闻主播的邀请。
In a fairly bold programming move, the station also let him end the broadcast with his own, nightly commentaries, which were often of a liberal bent: pro-union, anti-Reagan and Bush.
在一个相当大胆的节目制作举措中，电视台还让他以自己的每晚评论来结束广播，这些评论通常带有自由主义倾向：支持工会、反对里根和布什。
He ended the broadcast each night with his signature phrase: "Take care of yourself and each other."
他每天晚上都会用他的标志性短语结束广播：“照顾好自己和彼此。”
Springer spent 10 years at Channel 5, during which he brought the nightly news from last to first in the ratings and earned 10 Emmy Awards.
斯普林格在第五频道工作了 10 年，期间他将晚间新闻的收视率从最后一位提升到了第一位，并获得了 10 项艾美奖。
He attracted notice, including offers to host his own show.
他引起了人们的注意，包括主办自己的节目的邀请。
In September of 1991, the first Jerry Springer Show was taped.
1991 年 9 月，第一届 Jerry Springer Show 录制完成。
Soon afterwards, Jerry Springer left Cincinnati for good.
不久之后，杰瑞·斯普林格永远离开了辛辛那提。
His final commentary on the local news is legendary.
他对当地新闻的最后评论具有传奇色彩。
OK.
好的。
Bear with me.
耐心听我说。
This'll be a little tough.
这会有点困难。
You should know this isn't the first time I thought about leaving.
你应该知道这不是我第一次考虑离开。
I thought about it some 20 years ago when a check, that would soon become part of Cincinnati folklore, made me see life from the bottom.
大约 20 年前，一张支票让我看到了生活的底层，这张支票很快就成为辛辛那提民间传说的一部分，当时我就想到了这个问题。
To be honest, the thought about ending it all crossed my mind, but a more reasonable alternative seemed to be hey, how about just leaving town, running away, starting life over someplace else?
老实说，结束这一切的想法闪过我的脑海，但更合理的选择似乎是，嘿，离开城镇，逃跑，在其他地方开始生活怎么样？
You see, in political terms as well as human, here in Cincinnati, I was dead.
你看，无论是从政治角度还是从人性角度来说，在辛辛那提，我都死了。
But then, in probably the luckiest decision I ever made, I decided no, I'm staying put.
但后来，我决定不做，我会留在原地，这可能是我做过的最幸运的决定。
I would withstand all the jokes, all the ridicule.
我会承受所有的笑话，所有的嘲笑。
I'd pretend it didn't hurt.
我会假装不痛。
And I would give every ounce of my being to Cincinnati.
我会把我的每一分都奉献给辛辛那提。
"Why, in time," I was thinking, "you have to like me or, if not like me, at least respect me." And I'd run for Council, even on endorse, and I'd prove to you I could be the best public servant you ever had or I'd die trying.
“为什么，到时候，”我在想，“你必须喜欢我，或者，即使不喜欢我，至少也要尊重我。”我会竞选市议员，即使是在获得认可的情况下，我也会向你们证明我可以成为你们曾经拥有过的最好的公务员，否则我会为此而死。
Be it is a mayor, an anchor, or a commentator, whatever it took, I was determined to have you know that I was more than a check and a hooker on a one night stand.
无论是市长、主播还是评论员，无论付出什么代价，我决心让你们知道我不仅仅是一张支票和一个一夜情的妓女。
But something happened along the way.
但一路上发生了一些事情。
Maybe it's God's way of teaching us.
也许这就是上帝教导我们的方式。
I don't know.
我不知道。
But, you see, in trying to prove something to you, I learned something about me.
但是，你看，在试图向你证明一些事情的过程中，我了解了一些关于我自己的事情。
I learned that I had fallen in love with you, with Cincinnati, with you who taught me more about life and caring and forgiving and also, most importantly, in giving, giving something back.
我发现我已经爱上了你，爱上了辛辛那提，爱上了你，你教会了我更多关于生活、关爱和宽容的知识，最重要的是，还教会了我更多关于给予、回馈的知识。
Which is part of the reason I have been-- excuse me-- so sad this week, why it's so hard to say goodbye.
这就是我——对不起——这周如此悲伤的部分原因，为什么很难说再见。
God bless you, and goodbye.
愿上帝保佑你，再见。
Jerry Springer Amy, you have a friend, Rusty.
杰里·斯普林格·艾米，你有一个朋友，拉斯蒂。
Let's now welcome him to the show.
现在让我们欢迎他来到节目。
Here is Rusty.
这是拉斯蒂。
[EXCLAMATIONS AND SCREAMS FROM AUDIENCE]
[观众的惊叹声和尖叫声]
Come on [BLEEP]!
来吧[哔]！
[BLEEP]!
[哔]！
Alex Blumberg It wasn't immediate, the switch from the nightly news to this.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）：从晚间新闻到此的转变并不是立即发生的。
Originally, The Springer Show was meant to be the successor to Phil Donahue.
最初，施普林格秀是菲尔·多纳休的继任者。
And, indeed, the first year's topics included homelessness and gun control.
事实上，第一年的主题包括无家可归和枪支管制。
Springer booked political guests like Oliver North and Jesse Jackson, and the show seemed innocent and upstanding.
斯普林格邀请了奥利弗·诺斯和杰西·杰克逊等政治嘉宾，这场演出显得天真无邪、正直。
One early show bears the quaint title: Single People: On The Outside Looking In.
一个早期的节目有一个古雅的标题：单身人士：从外面看。
But the ratings tanked, a new producer was hired and-- well, you know the rest.
但收视率下降，聘请了新制片人，然后——好吧，剩下的你都知道了。
[SOUNDS OF AUDIENCE AND PEOPLE YELLING AND FIGHTING]
[观众和人们的喊叫和打斗声]
For those in Cincinnati, those that know the other Jerry Springer, watching the show can be bewildering.
对于辛辛那提的那些认识另一个杰里·斯普林格的人来说，观看这部剧可能会让人感到困惑。
Again, here's Patricia Garry who used to work with Jerry back in his City Council days.
帕特里夏·加里 (Patricia Garry) 曾在市议会任职期间与杰里 (Jerry) 共事。
Well, first off, that doesn't look Jerry.
嗯，首先，这看起来不像杰瑞。
What is it about him, do you think, when you see him?
当你看到他时，你认为他有什么特点？
What do you see when you're looking at him?
当你看着他时，你看到了什么？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Is he even in there?
他还在里面吗？
Where is Jerry?
杰瑞在哪里？
But he's still got that outward, you know, he can be happy with the microphones, and smiling, and all that.
但他仍然很外在，你知道，他可以对麦克风、微笑等等感到满意。
And then he does that little, pseudo-commentary at the end.
然后他在最后做了一点伪评论。
Where is that positive energy?
那正能量在哪里呢？
Where is that belief that he can make a difference?
他能够改变现状的信念在哪里？
Where is that wanting to make a difference?
想要有所作为的愿望在哪里？
That striving?
那个努力？
He was always shooting upward.
他总是向上射击。
I don't know if that person is around.
我不知道那个人是否在身边。
That's the thing, that seems to me, is that somebody with this gift, clearly--
在我看来，事情就是这样，一个拥有这种天赋的人，显然——
It's a Greek tragedy, isn't it?
这是希腊悲剧，不是吗？
It's really a Greek tragedy.
这真是一出希腊悲剧。
Yeah.
是的。
I couldn't have written a better one: to end up being the joker instead of being the king.
我写不出更好的了：最终成为小丑而不是国王。
Yeah.
是的。
Jerry Springer I'm not conflicted because I know there's me and then there's the show.
Jerry Springer 我并不矛盾，因为我知道有我，还有表演。
Jerry Springer might be the only person intimately familiar with Jerry Springer, who claims to feel no ambivalence about the place Jerry Springer has ended up.
杰里·斯普林格可能是唯一一个与杰里·斯普林格非常熟悉的人，他声称对杰里·斯普林格的结局并不感到矛盾。
I talked to him in his office before he taped his show.
在他录制节目之前，我在他的办公室与他交谈过。
It's hard not to like him.
很难不喜欢他。
He's engaging, funny, but there's a certain practiced quality to the way he answers questions about his career choices.
他很有魅力，很有趣，但他回答有关职业选择的问题的方式有一定的练习质量。
You know, I create this persona for the show.
你知道，我为这部剧创造了这个角色。
And that's what it is, I'm an act.
就是这样，我是一个表演者。
Its like I'm in movies.
我就像在电影里一样。
No one goes after some actor because, let's say, he played Hitler in the movies.
没有人会因为某个演员在电影中扮演希特勒而去追捧他。
I'm not saying anybody should have an issue with it at all.
我并不是说任何人都应该对此有任何问题。
Here's a person who's, at every stage of their professional career, it's been imbued with a sense of trying to make a difference until you get to the Springer show.
这个人在职业生涯的每个阶段都充满了努力做出改变的感觉，直到你参加斯普林格展会。
Well, we certainly made a difference in television.
嗯，我们确实在电视领域做出了改变。
I'm not sure people are happy about it.
我不确定人们是否对此感到高兴。
I try not to think about it too much.
我尽量不去想太多。
Life is what it is.
生活就是这样。
And you take what's handed and you work as hard as you can and, hopefully, you'll be successful.
你接受别人的安排，尽你所能地努力工作，希望你会成功。
But I just don't spend too much time worrying about that.
但我只是不会花太多时间担心这个。
I do my show.
我做我的表演。
I've always said it's a stupid show.
我一直说这是一个愚蠢的节目。
I've had a wonderful life because of it and all that, but I've never, for a second, thought that it's important.
因此我过着美好的生活，但我从来没有想过这很重要。
It's trivial.
这是微不足道的。
It's chewing gum, and I recognize that.
这是口香糖，我认得。
Once you do something that's significant in life, all this other stuff is just a way to eat.
一旦你做了一些对生活有意义的事情，所有其他的事情都只是一种吃饭的方式。
From talking to Springer and his friends, I think the best answer to the question how did this idealistic, political guy end up in a job where he helps no one, is partly he stumbled into it and was as surprised as anyone about how big it got.
通过与施普林格和他的朋友们的交谈，我认为这个理想主义的政治人物如何最终从事一份对任何人都没有帮助的工作这个问题的最佳答案部分是他偶然发现的，并且像任何人一样对它的规模如此之大感到惊讶。
Once the show started, what they euphemistically referred to as targeting the youth market, its success was both instantaneous and breathtaking.
这部剧一经开播（他们委婉地称之为针对青年市场），就立即获得了惊人的成功。
Within a span of a couple of years, Springer went from being just another talk show host to a worldwide phenomenon.
几年之内，斯普林格从一个普通的脱口秀主持人变成了一个全球现象级人物。
The Springer show can be seen on televisions in over 40 countries, worldwide, including Tunisia.
斯普林格秀可以在全球 40 多个国家/地区的电视上观看，其中包括突尼斯。
And when the show is named after you, you get a lot of the money.
当节目以你的名字命名时，你会得到很多钱。
And the money really meant something to him.
这笔钱对他来说确实很重要。
He'd come to this country when he was five, the child of Jewish refugees who escaped to America from Nazi Germany.
他五岁时来到这个国家，是从纳粹德国逃到美国的犹太难民的孩子。
But there is some evidence that Springer is more ambivalent about his current job than he's willing to let on to a reporter.
但有一些证据表明，施普林格对自己目前的工作比他愿意向记者透露的更加矛盾。
About four or five years ago he started making phone calls to his old friend, Mike Ford, who ran several of Springer's political campaigns, just to chat about politics.
大约四五年前，他开始打电话给他的老朋友迈克·福特(Mike Ford)，他负责斯普林格的几次政治竞选活动，只是为了谈论政治。
The more notoriety the show attracted, the more popular it became, the more frequently, it seemed to Mike, Jerry would phone him.
这部剧的名气越大，它就越受欢迎，在迈克看来，杰瑞给他打电话的次数也就越频繁。
We talked, I would say, maybe, once a month, and it was always about getting back in.
我想说，我们也许每个月谈一次，而且总是关于回归。
He would call me and he would say, so what are we going to do?
他会给我打电话，他会说，那我们该怎么办？
And I would say well, I'm doing it.
我会说，好吧，我正在这样做。
I don't know what you're going to do, but it's not happening on the show.
我不知道你要做什么，但这不会在节目中发生。
And then we'd talk about options.
然后我们会讨论选择。
And we looked at everything.
我们审视了一切。
I went down to Mississippi to look at running against Trent Lott.
我前往密西西比州观看与特伦特·洛特的比赛。
We looked in New Orleans.
我们在新奥尔良看了看。
We looked everywhere, but especially in Ohio.
我们到处寻找，特别是在俄亥俄州。
And he was feeling it out for years.
多年来他一直在感受这一点。
He was empty, OK?
他是空的，好吗？
That's the issue here.
这就是问题所在。
The show does not make him happy.
这个节目并不让他高兴。
It didn't fill his needs as a person.
这并不能满足他作为一个人的需求。
If you follow the news very closely, you may recall stories in early 2003 that Jerry Springer was considering a run for Senate in Ohio.
如果您密切关注新闻，您可能还记得 2003 年初杰里·斯普林格 (Jerry Springer) 正在考虑竞选俄亥俄州参议员的报道。
Much of the national news reported this as a joke, the talk show fool trying to dress up as a statesman.
许多全国新闻都将此视为一个笑话，脱口秀傻瓜试图打扮成政治家。
But the small band of Jerry's friends from before knew the story was actually the opposite: a former statesman was trying to shake off the costume of a talk show fool.
但杰瑞以前的一小群朋友知道这个故事实际上是相反的：一位前政治家试图摆脱脱口秀傻瓜的服装。
What this meant for Jerry was going around the state and speaking in front of as many Democrats as he possibly could.
这对杰里来说意味着他要走遍全州，在尽可能多的民主党人面前发表讲话。
Jene Galvin went with him.
珍妮·加尔文和他一起去了。
People say, would you come down Hocking College and speak?
人们说，你愿意来霍金学院演讲吗？
Yes.
是的。
Will you come to the Mercer County Democratic Party dinner and speak?
您会参加默瑟县民主党晚宴并发言吗？
Yes.
是的。
Will you come down to Athens County and help a young Ohio University woman running for City Council win an election?
您愿意来到雅典县帮助一位年轻的俄亥俄大学女性竞选市议会赢得选举吗？
Yes.
是的。
He goes.
他走了。
I introduced him to the State Democratic County Chairs Association back in January.
一月份我把他介绍给州民主县主席协会。
Again, Tim Burke.
又是蒂姆·伯克。
Tim Burke And, as I introduced him, you could just see that there was a great deal of skepticism in that room because, for the most part, the county chairs from around the state of Ohio only knew Jerry for this crazy television show he has.
蒂姆·伯克（Tim Burke），当我介绍他时，你可以看到房间里有很多怀疑论，因为在大多数情况下，来自俄亥俄州各地的县主席只认识杰瑞，因为他有这个疯狂的电视节目。
Many of you know him only as a host of some goofy television show.
你们中的许多人只知道他是一些愚蠢的电视节目的主持人。
I know him as somebody who cares deeply about people, about politics.
我知道他是一个非常关心人民和政治的人。
I'm proud to introduce you to my longtime friend, Jerry Springer.
我很自豪地向您介绍我的老朋友杰里·斯普林格。
[APPLAUSE] Jerry Springer Thank you, very much.
[掌声] 杰瑞·斯普林格 非常感谢。
May you never be on my show.
愿你永远不会出现在我的节目中。
You could, literally, watch the audience change from skepticism to an audience that was laughing with Jerry.
从字面上看，你可以看到观众从怀疑变成和杰瑞一起大笑的观众。
The tax cuts proposed by the President are obscene.
总统提议的减税措施是令人厌恶的。
What the hell is he giving someone like me a tax break for?
他给我这样的人提供税收减免到底是为了什么？
[LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] Jerry Springer The argument for the tax package, and you hear it all the time, the argument for the tax package is to give people back their money so they'll spend it and will help the economy.
[笑声和掌声]杰里·斯普林格（Jerry Springer）关于税收计划的论点，你一直听到它，税收计划的论点是让人们退还他们的钱，这样他们就会花掉它并帮助经济。
Here's what's stupid.
这就是愚蠢的事情。
Rich people can already afford anything they want to buy.
有钱人已经买得起他们想买的任何东西。
Do you think, if I get a check back in the mail, suddenly I'm going to buy something?
你认为，如果我收到邮寄回来的支票，我会突然去买东西吗？
If I want to buy something now, I'll go out and buy it.
如果我现在想买东西，我就会出去买。
Don't give me the money.
别给我钱。
Take that money and make sure that every citizen in the United States of America has health insurance!
拿着这笔钱，确保美利坚合众国的每个公民都有健康保险！
That's where you spend the money!
这就是你花钱的地方！
[APPLAUSE] Jerry Springer If we would get that message across to the citizens of Ohio, I don't care how Republican your district looks, they will say, "Aha!
[掌声] 杰里·斯普林格 如果我们能够向俄亥俄州的公民传达这一信息，我不管你所在的选区看起来如何是共和党人，他们都会说：“啊哈！
That relates to me.
这与我有关。
Now there's a reason to sign up and vote Democrat." We've got to give them a reason.
现在有理由报名并投票给民主党了。”我们必须给他们一个理由。
That's what we stand for.
这就是我们的立场。
We are right on the issues.
我们在这些问题上是正确的。
It just drives me insane when I watch the news and I see this garbage.
当我看新闻并看到这些垃圾时，它只会让我发疯。
Look, I'm the king of garbage, so I know garbage!
看，我是垃圾之王，所以我知道垃圾！
[LAUGHTER] Tim Burke And at the end of the speech, he had them all up on their feet.
[笑声] 蒂姆·伯克 演讲结束时，他让大家都站了起来。
These are a bunch of hard bitten politicians who've heard lots of political speeches in their lives, and he had them on their feet at the end of the speech.
这些都是一群铁石心肠的政治家，他们一生听过很多政治演讲，而他在演讲结束时让他们站了起来。
He turned the room, just like that.
他把房间转了个方向，就这样。
You don't have to be a political strategist, however, to design the attack ad against the Jerry Springer Senate campaign.
然而，你不必是一名政治战略家，也可以设计针对杰里·斯普林格参议院竞选活动的攻击广告。
He airs one, himself, twice a day in most markets, for an hour each time.
他自己在大多数市场每天播出两次，每次一小时。
So along with the speeches and the candidate appearances, Mike Ford tried to research the question could Jerry Springer, the man, get beyond Jerry Springer, the show?
因此，在演讲和候选人露面的同时，迈克·福特试图研究这样一个问题：杰里·斯普林格这个人能否超越杰里·斯普林格这个节目？
Put it another way.
换句话说。
Had Springer forever blown his chance to do the one thing he truly loved doing?
斯普林格是否永远失去了做他真正喜欢做的一件事情的机会？
We put together, more or less, focus groups.
我们或多或少地组建了焦点小组。
And we sat him in a room and, instead of asking questions directly about Jerry, we decided what we should do is, in effect, run a campaign before their eyes that was completely honest about all the things he'd ever done wrong or were distasteful, and then mixing them with the bio of the guy, and then letting him talk to camera about issues.
我们让他坐在一个房间里，而不是直接询问有关杰瑞的问题，我们决定实际上应该做的是，在他们眼前开展一场活动，完全诚实地讲述他曾经做过的错误或令人厌恶的所有事情，然后将它们与那个人的简历混合在一起，然后让他在镜头前谈论问题。
We had impressive voices reading mean, horrible, nasty editorials.
我们用令人印象深刻的声音朗读卑鄙、可怕、令人讨厌的社论。
They had clips from the show.
他们有演出的剪辑。
They had headlines about bad things.
他们的头条新闻都是关于坏事的。
They saw all the bad, but then they saw a lot of the good.
他们看到了所有的坏处，但随后他们也看到了很多好的一面。
In every market we started horribly, and every single, one of them turned around in every audience, in every market.
在每一个市场，我们的起步都很糟糕，每一个，每一个市场，每一个观众都扭转了局面。
And the key thing there was that information is received in inverse proportion to its predictability.
关键是信息的接收与其可预测性成反比。
So if you said Jerry Springer is dating a llama, they would go yeah, yeah, I saw that in the Enquirer.
所以如果你说杰里·斯普林格正在和一只美洲驼约会，他们会说是的，是的，我在《国家询问报》上看到了这一点。
But then you start unroll all this other stuff.
但随后你开始展开所有其他的东西。
And then, when he looked to camera and started talking about what's going on in this state and in the country, it was completely persuasive because it was all new.
然后，当他看着镜头并开始谈论这个州和这个国家正在发生的事情时，这是完全有说服力的，因为它是全新的。
But there's one other thing they told Mike Ford.
但他们还告诉迈克·福特另一件事。
All the people in all the focus groups said the only way they could vote for him was if he quit his show.
所有焦点小组的所有人都表示，他们投票给他的唯一方法就是他退出节目。
The voters, it turns out, could get beyond Springer, the show, to Springer, the man as long as Springer, the man, did it first.
事实证明，只要施普林格这个人首先做到了，选民就可以超越施普林格这个节目，到达施普林格这个人。
Which is what killed his exploratory bid in the end.
这就是他最终放弃试探性收购的原因。
He couldn't get out of his TV contract in time to start a Senate race, but he's still out there giving speeches.
他无法及时解除电视合同以开始参议院竞选，但他仍然在那里发表演讲。
If you go to the website runjerryrun.com, you'll see five events with the Ohio Democratic organizations scheduled next month alone.
如果您访问 runjerryrun.com 网站，您会看到俄亥俄州民主党组织仅下个月就安排了五场活动。
Springer's been thinking a lot about his message.
施普林格对他的信息进行了很多思考。
He hits it in every speech he gives and it goes something like this: "We all believe, Republicans and Democrats alike, that the purpose of government is to provide protection.
他在每次演讲中都强调这一点，内容是这样的：“我们都相信，共和党人和民主党人都一样，政府的目的是提供保护。
No one disputes that government should maintain a military or police force, or try to stop terrorists, but Democrats believe that government should protect its citizens from another form of violence as well."
没有人质疑政府应该维持军队或警察部队，或者试图阻止恐怖分子，但民主党人认为政府也应该保护其公民免受另一种形式的暴力侵害。”
The violence of a pink slip on a Friday afternoon that says you've been laid off and now you don't have enough money to take care of your family.
周五下午，你收到了一份解雇通知书，上面写着你被解雇了，现在你没有足够的钱来照顾你的家人。
You know, job insecurity, the inability to get health insurance, that you have to choose should I take my medicine this month, or do I buy my kid a coat for the winter?
你知道，工作不稳定，无法获得健康保险，你必须选择我这个月应该吃药，还是给我的孩子买一件过冬的外套？
So the Democratic party exists in America today to provide protection for middle and low-income America, particularly against economic violence as well as military violence.
因此，民主党今天在美国的存在是为了为美国的中低收入群体提供保护，特别是针对经济暴力和军事暴力。
Has doing the show for these last 8, 10 years, has it informed your political thinking in any way?
过去八年、十年来做这个节目对你的政治思维有什么影响吗？
No. It's just confirmed it.
没有，刚刚确认了。
Any job I've ever had it's been the same constituency, it's been middle and low-income people that need a voice, that need help, that need whatever.
我从事过的任何工作都是同样的选民，中低收入人群需要发言权，需要帮助，需要任何东西。
So, even in my entertainment, that's my base.
所以，即使在我的娱乐活动中，这也是我的基础。
In politics, it certainly was my base.
在政治上，这当然是我的基础。
When I practiced law, it was my base.
当我从事法律工作时，这是我的基础。
This is who I am.
这就是我。
54 years ago, this week, I came to America.
54年前的这个星期，我来到了美国。
I was five years old.
那年我五岁。
Most of my family had been killed in the holocaust in the camps in Germany and Austria during World War II.
第二次世界大战期间，我的大部分家人在德国和奥地利集中营的大屠杀中丧生。
The speech that you're hearing now is one Springer delivered back in January of 2003 to a group of Ohio Democratic county chairs.
您现在听到的演讲是施普林格于 2003 年 1 月向俄亥俄州民主党县主席小组发表的演讲。
There was no press there.
那里没有媒体。
And the only reason we have it on tape is because an audience member recorded the whole thing on a personal tape machine from his chair.
我们将其录制成磁带的唯一原因是一位观众在他的椅子上用个人磁带机录制了整个过程。
He probably thought that it'd be a joke, but he was so moved by the speech that he took the tape and had it duplicated at his own expense.
他可能认为这是一个玩笑，但他被演讲所感动，于是他拿走了磁带并自费复制了它。
He sent it around to all the county chairmen around the state, the idea being, here's a guy with a message for us.
他将其发送给全州所有县主席，其想法是，这是一个给我们传达信息的人。
In the speech, Springer gives his standard economic spiel and also condemns America's current foreign policy as arrogant and bullying.
施普林格在演讲中发表了标准的经济演讲，并谴责美国当前的外交政策傲慢和霸凌。
And then he ends with his own story of first coming to America with his refugee parents on a boat from Europe.
然后他以自己的故事作为结尾，讲述了他与难民父母第一次从欧洲乘船来到美国的故事。
We came over on the Queen Mary, January 19th to January 24th, a five day voyage over to America in 1949.
1949 年，我们于 1 月 19 日至 24 日乘坐玛丽皇后号前往美国，为期五天的航行。
And, when we arrived, my very first memory was my mom waking me up and saying, "Jerald, we have to go up on the top deck there." One of the decks of the Queen Mary.
当我们到达时，我的第一个记忆是我妈妈叫醒我并说：“杰拉尔德，我们必须去那里的顶层甲板。”玛丽皇后号的甲板之一。
And all I remember-- because the rest has been told to me.
我只记得这些——因为其余的都是别人告诉我的。
I was only five-- but I vividly remember everyone standing out on top of the ship and the deck there-- there were about 2,000 passengers on board-- packed together, packed together.
我当时只有五岁——但我清楚地记得站在船顶和甲板上的每个人——船上大约有 2,000 名乘客——挤在一起，挤在一起。
And what I remember, other than being freezing, is that nobody said a word.
我记得，除了僵住之外，没有人说一句话。
It was absolute quiet.
周围绝对安静。
And we were passing the Statue of Liberty.
我们当时正经过自由女神像。
And my mother told me later on, as I got older because, obviously, I wouldn't remember exactly what I'd said, but she remembers me asking her what are looking at and what does it mean?
后来，随着我年龄的增长，我母亲告诉了我，因为显然，我记不清我说了什么，但她记得我问她正在看什么，这是什么意思？
And she said, in German, eines tages, alles.
她用德语说，eines tages, alles。
One day, everything.
有一天，一切。
The Statue of Liberty means everything.
自由女神像意味着一切。
We take it for granted today.
今天我们认为这是理所当然的。
We take it for granted.
我们认为这是理所当然的。
Remember, the Statue of Liberty stands for what America is.
请记住，自由女神像代表着美国。
We, as Democrats, have to remind ourselves and remind the country the great principles we stand for.
作为民主党人，我们必须提醒自己并提醒国家我们所代表的伟大原则。
This is a place of protection.
这是一个受保护的地方。
This is not a country of bullies.
这不是一个恶霸横行的国家。
We are not an empire.
我们不是一个帝国。
We are the light.
我们是光。
We are the Statue of Liberty.
我们是自由女神像。
Thank you for having me.
谢谢你有我。
[APPLAUSE] Alex Blumberg The elements aren't new.
[掌声] Alex Blumberg 这些元素并不新鲜。
The immigrant experience, help for working people, the Statue of Liberty, but the effect was, somehow, electrifying for the people in that hall and the people passing around this tape.
移民经历、对劳动人民的帮助、自由女神像，但不知何故，其效果让那个大厅里的人和传递这盘磁带的人们感到兴奋。
Wouldn't it be funny if, in the end, what the world really needs is more Jerry Springer?
如果最终世界真正需要的是更多杰瑞·斯普林格，那不是很有趣吗？
Alex Blumberg, he's one of the producers of our show.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格，他是我们节目的制片人之一。
Coming up, so a bunch of nuns and an Orthodox Jew walk into a bar.
快到了，一群修女和一个正统的犹太人走进了一家酒吧。
Actually, they walk into the second half of our show, and that happens just one minute, on Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
事实上，他们走进了我们节目的后半部分，这发生在芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台的一分钟内，当时我们的节目仍在继续。
This is American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, stories of people leaving the fold and, like Jerry Springer, having one part of them stays stuck back in the old days before they left.
今天的节目讲述了人们离开家族的故事，就像杰瑞·斯普林格一样，他们的一部分仍然停留在离开前的旧时光。
We have arrived at Act 2 of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act 2, God And Hockey.
第二幕，上帝与曲棍球。
Shalom Auslander and his wife were raised in religious homes.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德和他的妻子在宗教家庭中长大。
But they were wobbling away from it, thinking of leaving the fold.
但他们却犹豫不决，想要离开这个圈子。
But still, living in an Orthodox Jewish community in Teaneck, New Jersey, they were huge fans of the hockey team, the New York Rangers.
但尽管如此，居住在新泽西州蒂内克的一个正统犹太社区，他们仍然是曲棍球队纽约游骑兵队的忠实粉丝。
And in 1994, The Rangers had an incredible season.
1994 年，流浪者队度过了一个令人难以置信的赛季。
They beat The Islanders, beat The Devils in a 7-game, double overtime win, went to the playoffs against Vancouver.
他们击败了岛民队，在两个加时赛中以七场比赛击败了魔鬼队，进入了季后赛对阵温哥华队。
And during one of these away games, fans could go, while the team was in Vancouver, for $5.00 and sit in Madison Square Garden and watch the game on the Jumbotron with other fans.
在其中一场客场比赛期间，球迷可以花 5 美元前往麦迪逊广场花园，而球队在温哥华时，与其他球迷一起在大屏幕上观看比赛。
But the problem for this couple was the game was on a Saturday and religious Jews don't drive on Saturdays, it's against the rules of their religion.
但这对夫妇面临的问题是，比赛是在周六进行的，而虔诚的犹太人周六不开车，这违反了他们的宗教规则。
Shalom and his wife really, really wanted to go.
沙洛姆和他的妻子真的非常想去。
So this was push coming to shove in terms of the whole God existence thing.
因此，就整个上帝存在而言，这是一个紧要关头。
We kind of looked at each other, and I was all for going.
我们互相看了看对方，我完全同意走。
I just said oh, to hell with it.
我只是说哦，见鬼去吧。
My argument was if God got them in that position and--
我的论点是，如果上帝让他们处于那个位置并且——
God made the-- look, He brought over Messier from Canada.
上帝创造了——看起来，他从加拿大带来了梅西耶。
He brought over Kovalev from Russia.
他从俄罗斯引进了科瓦列夫。
He really went out of his way to get these guys into this position to win, and it was probably a mitzvah to go watch them.
他真的不遗余力地让这些人进入这个位置以赢得胜利，而去观看他们可能是一种成人礼。
You know, this commandment to go watch them.
你知道，这条诫命是去监视他们。
What was her argument?
她的论据是什么？
Shalom Auslander Her argument was fear, terror, God revenge.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德（Shalom Auslander）她的论点是恐惧、恐怖、上帝的复仇。
So her feeling was let's walk.
所以她的感觉是我们走吧。
It's about 14 miles from what we judged.
与我们的判断相距约 14 英里。
Wait a second.
等一下。
You actually thought that, if you drove instead of walked, that God would actually make the team lose?
你真的认为，如果你开车而不是走路，上帝真的会让球队输吗？
I did.
我做到了。
Ira Glass That would be His revenge on you, really?
艾拉·格拉斯 这就是他对你的报复，真的吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I certainly knew that, if it did happen, there would be a part of my head that went ah, nice going.
嗯，我当然知道，如果它真的发生了，我的头脑中会有一部分会兴奋起来，啊，进展顺利。
Nice going.
进展顺利。
They play all season, and then you've got to go in the cab.
他们整个赛季都在踢球，然后你就得坐进出租车了。
And now look what happened.
现在看看发生了什么。
So let's walk from New Jersey into Manhattan, literally?
那么，我们真的从新泽西步行到曼哈顿吗？
Yes.
是的。
Literally.
字面上地。
Ira Glass Across the bridge.
艾拉·格拉斯 过桥。
Down Teaneck Road.
沿着蒂内克路。
You know, walk along the side of Route 4, which is this 8-lane, super slab highway, across the George Washington bridge.
你知道，沿着 4 号公路的一侧行走，这是一条 8 车道的超级板式高速公路，穿过乔治华盛顿大桥。
Walk down the highway, cross through Harlem, hit Broadway, and then it's 100 blocks down to Madison Square Garden.
沿着高速公路步行，穿过哈莱姆区，到达百老汇，然后再行驶 100 个街区即可到达麦迪逊广场花园。
So we go and, as we're heading along, its turning out to be quite a longer walk than we thought it was.
于是我们就出发了，当我们继续前行时，结果发现我们的路程比我们想象的要长得多。
Particularly in our sabbath finest.
特别是在我们的安息日最好。
And those are hard shoes.
这些都是硬鞋。
But her feet are slowly blistering.
但她的脚正在慢慢起泡。
And its just getting worse and worse, and she's complaining more and more.
情况变得越来越糟，她的抱怨也越来越多。
It's at the point where she's taken her shoes off and walking.
就在她脱掉鞋子走路的时候。
And I don't know how many of you have been in Manhattan, but that's a huge commitment to walk down a Manhattan street in just your socks.
我不知道你们中有多少人去过曼哈顿，但只穿袜子走在曼哈顿街道上是一个巨大的承诺。
You've got to be in a lot of pain.
你一定很痛苦。
So, by the time we get there, the euphoria of the game took over, and it was just really great to be there.
所以，当我们到达那里时，比赛的兴奋感占据了主导地位，能够在那里真是太棒了。
But we didn't really consider God much after that, until The Rangers lost.
但在那之后我们并没有真正考虑过上帝，直到流浪者队输了。
I think they lost 4-1.
我认为他们1-4输了。
It was ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
And the game just ended, and everyone just starts filing out, miserably.
比赛刚刚结束，大家就开始鱼贯而出，悲惨地。
And we're just standing there just dumbfounded.
我们只是站在那里目瞪口呆。
Not only do we now hate the Rangers but, just theologically, we're spiraling.
我们现在不仅讨厌流浪者队，而且从神学上来说，我们正在螺旋式上升。
And the moment that final buzzer rang, my wife looked at me and said, "We should have driven." It was just that kind of-- all right, if this is the way He's going to play, if this is the kind of game He's playing, then we're not having any of it.
终场哨响的那一刻，我的妻子看着我说：“我们应该开车的。”就是这样——好吧，如果这就是他要玩的方式，如果这就是他玩的游戏，那么我们就不会再有这样的事情了。
And we left the Garden and I had a sidewalk hot dog.
我们离开花园，我吃了一个人行道热狗。
I was like, I'm strictly non-kosher from now on.
我当时想，从现在开始我就严格不遵守犹太教规了。
Yeah.
是的。
How do You like that?
你觉得怎么样？
Where can I get a Slim Jim around here?
我在这附近哪里可以买到 Slim Jim ？
And a milk.
还有一杯牛奶。
Shalom Auslander Yeah, exactly.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德 是的，没错。
I never thought about it.
我从来没有想过。
Like, this is the downside of having a personal relationship with God is that you'd constantly be bearing a grudge.
就像，与上帝建立个人关系的缺点是你会不断地怀恨在心。
I thought it was all just like reassurance and stuff from God all the time.
我一直以为这一切就像是来自上帝的安慰和东西。
He's there in times of need.
在需要的时候他就在那里。
I never thought you could actually just feel a grudge against him for something like this.
我没想到你竟然会因为这样的事情而对他怀恨在心。
Well, you know, it depends what kind of God you're picturing.
嗯，你知道，这取决于你所想象的上帝是什么样的。
I came from a normally, incredibly dysfunctional, family with a pretty overbearing father.
我来自一个正常的、极其不正常的家庭，有一个相当专横的父亲。
So, as a kid, you're going to these Hebrew schools.
所以，作为一个孩子，你要去这些希伯来语学校。
You're hearing our father who art in heaven, and I'm going oh, God, tell me there's not another one up in heaven.
你听到的是我们在天上的父亲，我要去哦，上帝，告诉我天上没有另一个父亲了。
He's bad enough at home.
他在家里已经够糟糕的了。
He's bad enough at home.
他在家里已经够糟糕的了。
I realized that, as you said that, my image of God is exactly-- I could never put this together in my life-- is exactly my image of my father, but bigger, which is he's usually not around.
我意识到，正如你所说，我对上帝的印象完全是——我永远无法把这一切放在我的生活中——完全是我对父亲的印象，但更大，那就是他通常不在身边。
Sometimes he'll take an interest.
有时他会感兴趣。
He means well, but mostly he's kind of like, you're on your own.
他的本意是好的，但大多数时候他的意思是，你只能靠自己了。
Yeah.
是的。
That wasn't mine.
那不是我的。
I wish that were my mine.
我希望那是我的。
Mine was a God in heaven, lumbering around in his underpants, half drunk on Chatham wine, looking to yell at somebody.
我心目中的上帝是天上的上帝，穿着内裤笨重地走来走去，喝得半醉，正看着某人大喊大叫。
[LAUGHTER] Shalom Auslander So I picture that guy watching The Ranger game and going to hell with you, buddy.
[笑声] Shalom Auslander 所以我想象那个家伙看着游侠队的比赛然后和你一起见鬼去吧，伙计。
Yeah.
是的。
So you have this moment with the team.
所以你和团队一起度过了这一刻。
Does this actually have consequences past that week?
这实际上会在那周之后产生影响吗？
You know, I think it helped hasten the slide.
你知道，我认为这有助于加速下滑。
The week after was the first time that we just ignored the fact that it was Sabbath.
接下来的一周是我们第一次忽略了安息日这一事实。
And I think our big God revolution, at that point, was to get in our car and go to a mall.
我认为当时我们的大上帝革命就是开车去购物中心。
And that was the big one for us.
这对我们来说是一件大事。
Sabbath was the big one.
安息日是最重要的一天。
That's the hard one to get past.
这是最难克服的一关。
So this happened a decade ago.
所以这发生在十年前。
Have there been times that you missed being religious, having that life, having that community?
你是否曾一度怀念宗教信仰、怀念那样的生活、怀念那样的社区？
Is there some part of it that you've missed along the way?
一路上你是否错过了其中的某些部分？
No, because I gave up the practice of it.
不，因为我放弃了它的练习。
But it's funny, my family, or the people from that community, or anybody I went to school with, would look at me and say oh, he's completely irreligious and not spiritual at all.
但有趣的是，我的家人，或者那个社区的人，或者和我一起上学的任何人，都会看着我说，哦，他完全没有宗教信仰，根本没有精神。
But the truth is I kind of feel like the most religious person I know because I still haven't quite gotten that God out of my head.
但事实是，我感觉自己是我认识的最虔诚的人，因为我仍然没有完全把上帝从我的脑海中抹去。
He's still there.
他还在那里。
He still makes comments.
他仍然发表评论。
There is always the picture of a big, old, frowning man, in the back of the room shaking his head, saying you're going to pay for this.
房间后面总有这样一张照片：一个又大又老、皱着眉头的男人摇着头，说你要为此付出代价。
So I could say I don't believe in it, but that's not going to get that character out of my life.
所以我可以说我不相信它，但这并不会让这个角色从我的生活中消失。
And I don't know why I can't just give it up.
我不知道为什么我不能放弃它。
I wish I could.
我希望我能。
Shalom Auslander in upstate New York.
沙洛姆·奥斯兰德 (Shalom Auslander) 位于纽约州北部。
He has a collection of short stories coming out next year called, Beware of God.
他的短篇小说集将于明年出版，名为《小心上帝》。
[MUSIC - "THE NEW YORK RANGERS' GOAL SONG"]
[音乐 - “纽约流浪者队的进球歌曲”]
Act 3, Nuns Amok.
第三幕，疯狂修女。
Now the story of some people who, absolutely, did not want to leave the fold and tried, in fact, to leave without leaving.
现在是一些人的故事，他们绝对不想离开，事实上，他们试图离开但没有离开。
This is in the 1960's, an order of nuns called the Glenmary Sisters.
这是在 20 世纪 60 年代，一个名为格伦玛丽修女会的修女会。
Susan Drury tracked down some of them to talk about what happened.
苏珊·德鲁里找到了其中一些人，讲述了发生的事情。
They didn't become nuns to escape the world.
她们成为修女并不是为了逃离这个世界。
They didn't go live a life of cloistered contemplation.
他们并没有过着隐居沉思的生活。
These women wanted to be Glenmary Sisters because they wanted a bigger, wider life.
这些女性想成为格伦玛丽姐妹，因为她们想要更广阔、更广阔的生活。
They wanted to get out of their hometowns.
他们想离开自己的家乡。
They wanted to serve the poor.
他们想为穷人服务。
They wanted adventure.
他们想要冒险。
Monica Appleby grew up in Chicago.
莫妮卡·艾波比在芝加哥长大。
When she graduated from her Catholic high school in 1954, she knew that she didn't want to be a nurse or a teacher or get married right away.
1954 年，当她从天主教高中毕业时，她知道自己不想成为一名护士或教师，也不想立即结婚。
A lot of her friends were joining the convent, but she was certain she didn't want to be like the nuns she knew from school.
她的很多朋友都加入了修道院，但她确信自己不想像她在学校认识的修女一样。
Then she got a brochure from the Glenmary Sisters and was intrigued by the photo on the cover.
然后她从格伦玛丽姐妹那里得到了一本小册子，并对封面上的照片很感兴趣。
Well, it's a sister who has a veil on and starched piece across her head, and only her face shows.
嗯，这是一位姐妹，头上蒙着面纱，浆过的一块，只露出她的脸。
But she is sitting at a tractor, driving.
但她正坐在拖拉机前驾驶。
I thought it would be really neat to drive a tractor.
我觉得开拖拉机真是太好了。
And even for a sister to drive a car in those days was highly unusual.
在那个年代，即使是姐姐开车也是极不寻常的。
I heard later, though, that, that was a staged picture.
但后来我听说，那是一场舞台剧。
[LAUGHS] That the Glenmary Sisters never did drive tractors.
[笑]格伦玛丽姐妹从来没有开过拖拉机。
The Glenmary Sisters were started in the 1940's.
Glenmary Sisters 成立于 20 世纪 40 年代。
And their founder, Father Bishop, always intended that they would be a different kind of order.
他们的创始人主教神父一直希望他们成为一种不同的教团。
Unlike almost all other nuns in the US at that time, the Glenmary Sisters were not going to have hospitals, or schools, or any other institutions.
与当时美国几乎所有其他修女不同，格伦玛丽修女不会有医院、学校或任何其他机构。
Their job was to serve the poor, to just do whatever was needed in the poor towns where they were sent.
他们的工作是为穷人服务，在他们被派往的贫困城镇做任何需要做的事情。
Even more unusual, they were going to minister, not primarily to Catholics, but to people in places where there were few or no Catholics.
更不寻常的是，他们主要不是为天主教徒服务，而是为天主教徒很少或根本没有的地方的人们服务。
To missions in rural parts of Appalachia where many people had never seen nuns.
前往阿巴拉契亚乡村地区传教，那里许多人从未见过修女。
And, though they were cutting edge nuns, they were still nuns.
而且，尽管她们是最前沿的修女，但她们仍然是修女。
They had mass every day and said their prayers three times a day.
他们每天举行弥撒，每天祈祷三次。
They studied theological books during meals and had silence every evening.
他们在吃饭时学习神学书籍，每天晚上都保持沉默。
These practices kept them grounded in their training and faith, they say, but other rules seemed to get in the way.
他们说，这些做法使他们扎根于他们的训练和信仰，但其他规则似乎阻碍了他们。
Marie Cirillo joined the Glenmary Sisters in 1948, and says that one of the greatest obstacles to doing their work was that they had to wear the traditional habit.
玛丽·西里洛 (Marie Cirillo) 于 1948 年加入格伦玛丽姐妹会 (Glenmary Sisters)，她表示，工作中最大的障碍之一是她们必须穿着传统的服装。
It was floor-length.
它是及地的长度。
It was gray wool.
那是灰色的羊毛。
It had a veil.
它有一个面纱。
And it had a cape on it.
它上面有一件斗篷。
And, oh God, and I remember going up a hollow, getting out of the car, trying to climb up this mountain to this house.
天哪，我记得爬上一个洼地，下了车，试图爬上这座山到这所房子。
And the mother comes out.
妈妈出来了。
And the kids are on the porch and start screaming, "Mama!
孩子们在门廊上开始尖叫：“妈妈！
Mama!
妈妈！
Witches!
女巫们！
Witches!" And I think, God!
女巫们！”我想，上帝！
I don't need this.
我不需要这个。
[LAUGHS] And then another thing that was bothersome was that we couldn't eat with people.
[笑]另一件令人烦恼的事情是我们不能和人一起吃饭。
And if you're going out from the convent into the mountains and you're driving around, and you've packed your sandwich.
如果你要从修道院出去到山里，你开车到处走走，你已经收拾好了三明治。
But if you're stopping in a house and they want you to have something, and you can't do it.
但如果你在一所房子里停下来，他们想要你给你一些东西，你就做不到。
And then you have to go get in the car and start nibbling your food.
然后你必须上车并开始吃你的食物。
You think this is so stupid, it's so stupid.
你认为这太愚蠢了，这太愚蠢了。
Here's Monica Appleby again.
莫妮卡·艾波比又来了。
Monica Appleby The basis of our work was building relationships and, since we were so strange, it was finding a way for people to trust us.
Monica Appleby 我们工作的基础是建立关系，因为我们很陌生，所以我们要找到一种让人们信任我们的方法。
So that's why you would start questioning.
所以这就是为什么你会开始质疑。
The timing was right for the questions they raised.
他们提出问题的时机恰到好处。
In the early '60's, The Second Vatican Council was meeting to try to figure out how the Catholic church could adapt to become more relevant to the modern world.
六十年代初期，梵蒂冈第二届大公会议召开，试图找出天主教会如何适应现代世界的问题。
The pope asked every religious order to develop their own proposals for changes they thought would help them carry out their missions.
教皇要求每个宗教团体制定自己的改革建议，他们认为这将有助于他们履行使命。
The Glenmary Sisters were excited by the chance.
格伦玛丽姐妹对这个机会感到兴奋。
The sisters proposed that they be allowed to participate in broader political work.
姐妹俩提议允许她们参与更广泛的政治工作。
They wanted permission to attend conferences on non-religious matters.
他们希望获得参加非宗教事务会议的许可。
And they wanted to be able to have secular people in their houses, to invite people for meals and fellowship.
他们希望能够有世俗的人在他们的家里，邀请人们吃饭和团契。
In addition, the sisters had begun to wear a modified habit: a two-piece suit with a short veil.
此外，姐妹俩还开始改变习惯：两件式西装搭配短面纱。
It was one magazine article that changed everything.
一篇杂志文章改变了一切。
In July of 1966, The Saturday Evening Post ran an article titled The New Nuns.
1966 年 7 月，《周六晚邮报》发表了一篇题为《新修女》的文章。
The tone of the article was admiring of the Glenmary Sisters, but the descriptions and photos of the nuns eating out at night, playing with children in alleys, showing their legs, did not go over well with conservative Catholics.
文章的语气是对格伦玛丽修女的钦佩，但修女们晚上出去吃饭、在小巷里和孩子们玩耍、露出双腿的描述和照片，并没有得到保守的天主教徒的好感。
Their Bishop was told to rein them in.
他们的主教被告知要控制他们。
And, by early 1967, they got word from Rome, the sister's recommendations for their order had been rejected.
1967 年初，他们从罗马得到消息，修女对他们的命令的建议已被拒绝。
They would not accept, for one thing, the short habit.
一方面，他们不会接受这种短暂的习惯。
The cardinal said it showed too much bosom.
红衣主教说它暴露了太多的胸部。
Helen Lewis was a community college teacher in Virginia and worked closely with many of the Glenmary Sisters for decades.
海伦·刘易斯是弗吉尼亚州的一名社区大学教师，几十年来与许多格伦玛丽姐妹密切合作。
She and Monica Appleby wrote about them in a book called, Mountain Sisters.
她和莫妮卡·阿普尔比在一本名为《山姐妹》的书中写到了她们。
The cardinal also said that they were acting as if they were the only agents of social change.
红衣主教还表示，他们的表现就好像他们是社会变革的唯一推动者。
He felt that they were a little bit, I guess, too uppity, or too arrogant or something, in making all these recommendations.
我想，他觉得他们在提出所有这些建议时有点过于自大，或者过于傲慢什么的。
And so they were ordered to go back to cloister, go back to all the old rules and regulations, go back to the long habit.
于是他们被命令回到修道院，回到所有旧的规章制度，回到长期的习惯。
The Church had asked them to weigh-in, had asked for their ideas, and then the Church had rejected those ideas, wholesale.
教会要求他们权衡，征求他们的想法，然后教会全盘拒绝了这些想法。
In fact, by being ordered back to cloister, back into the traditional habits, they were given more restrictions than they'd ever had.
事实上，当他们被命令返回修道院，恢复传统习惯时，他们受到的限制比以往任何时候都多。
And this is when they set out on a very unusual path.
就在那时，他们踏上了一条非常不寻常的道路。
They decided they wanted to live as religious sisters without the Church, itself.
她们决定在没有教会的情况下以宗教姐妹的身份生活。
They were going to quit but stay in Appalachia, serve the poor, and continue what they saw as their religious work.
他们打算退出，但留在阿巴拉契亚，为穷人服务，并继续他们所认为的宗教工作。
They were going to leave, not because they wanted a new life, but because they wanted to do what they had felt called to do all along.
他们要离开，不是因为他们想要新的生活，而是因为他们想做他们一直以来认为要做的事情。
70 of them quit and, of those 70, 44 started their own group they called FOCIS: Federation of Communities in Service.
其中 70 人退出，而在这 70 人中，44 人成立了自己的组织，他们称之为 FOCIS：服务社区联合会。
We had a meeting with this Father Becker, who was representing the Bishop, and we sat around a table dividing up the property and the goods.
我们与代表主教的贝克尔神父会面，我们围坐在一张桌子旁，分配财产和货物。
And I do remember thinking that this is probably as close to the feeling of a divorce that I could ever have because it was like I had lived for 18 years with these women and then, all of a sudden, we had this split.
我确实记得我当时想，这可能是我所能经历的最接近离婚的感觉，因为就好像我和这些女人一起生活了 18 年，然后，突然之间，我们分手了。
The former sisters began building their new lives outside of the convent as members of FOCIS.
前姐妹俩作为 FOCIS 的成员开始在修道院外建立她们的新生活。
They went back to work in many of the same towns and cities they had been in before.
他们回到了许多以前去过的城镇和城市工作。
They elected Monica Appleby as their president.
他们选举莫妮卡·阿普尔比为主席。
Monica's job was to raise some money and help this organization hang together.
莫妮卡的工作是筹集一些资金并帮助这个组织团结起来。
They had a ceremony and a special mass and made commitments to each other that mimicked the vows they made in the convent: chastity, poverty, obedience.
他们举行了仪式和特别的弥撒，并向彼此做出了模仿他们在修道院里许下的誓言的承诺：贞洁、贫穷、服从。
Just as in the convent they wore special rings, but this time the ring signified their commitment to FOCIS.
就像在修道院里一样，他们戴着特殊的戒指，但这一次，戒指代表了他们对 FOCIS 的承诺。
For many of the former sisters, this was the first time in their lives they lived on their own without their family or the Church providing for them.
对于许多前修女来说，这是她们一生中第一次在没有家人或教会供养的情况下独自生活。
Now they had to buy clothes, keep bank accounts, find housing, and find jobs that would support them while they worked with the poor.
现在，他们必须购买衣服，保留银行账户，寻找住房，并找到能够支持他们的工作，同时为穷人工作。
They had to adjust to regular life in the secular world.
他们必须适应世俗世界的正常生活。
Just finding clothes to wear and figuring out how to dress, we would give each other suggestions.
只要找到合适的衣服并弄清楚如何穿着，我们就会互相提供建议。
[LAUGHTER] It was kind of a teenage thing.
[笑声] 这有点像青少年的事情。
I remember I went to Chicago and I got everything on sale.
我记得我去了芝加哥，所有东西都在打折。
But I enjoyed picking out clothes.
但我很喜欢挑选衣服。
I picked out a green suit, I remember, that was polyester so it didn't wrinkle.
我记得我选了一套绿色的西装，那是涤纶的，所以不会起皱。
Yeah.
是的。
I thought that was real sharp.
我认为这真的很尖锐。
So while the former sisters had decided they would live as nuns, they didn't look like nuns any more.
因此，虽然前姐妹决定以修女的身份生活，但她们看起来不再像修女了。
And, as Anne Leibig tells me, that changed things, especially with men.
而且，正如安妮·莱比格告诉我的那样，这改变了一切，尤其是对男性而言。
Before, we had to have it like you said.
以前，我们必须像你说的那样。
We'd see people, and we'd smile.
我们会看到人们，我们会微笑。
And there wasn't anything sexual going on but, when I wasn't a nun any more, I didn't have to be a nun and I had regular clothes, I begin to sense that there was some different reactions from men as you'd smile at them and stuff.
没有发生任何性方面的事情，但是，当我不再是修女时，我不必成为修女，而且我穿着普通的衣服，我开始感觉到男人有一些不同的反应，因为你会对他们微笑等等。
And then I started figuring out that there was something about flirting.
然后我开始发现调情是有一定道理的。
I thought well, this flirting thing, I'd better learn about that.
我想好吧，这种调情的事情，我最好了解一下。
I think the hardest thing, and it still lingers a little bit, was that some people were so anti-structure anything that they just wanted to not be controlled in any way, or organize anything, or do anything together, just let me free because they had been so pinched with the structure.
我认为最困难的事情，而且仍然挥之不去的是，有些人是如此反结构任何东西，他们只是想不以任何方式被控制，或组织任何东西，或一起做任何事情，只是让我自由，因为他们已经被结构挤压了。
Well it's, I guess, maybe like in prison, you know?
嗯，我想，也许就像在监狱里一样，你知道吗？
So I think that was the major tension.
所以我认为这是主要的压力。
The sisters didn't want to be obedient to any one person, so they had to figure out how to share authority.
姐妹俩不想服从任何一个人，所以她们必须想办法分享权力。
They also thought they could share money.
他们还认为可以分享金钱。
Their plan was that those who could get paying jobs would make a budget for themselves, then send the rest of the money to the group to support some of the sisters who were doing unpaid mission work.
她们的计划是，那些能找到有酬工作的人会为自己制定一个预算，然后将剩下的钱寄给该团体，以支持一些从事无酬宣教工作的姐妹。
But, as Helen says, it was a lot harder than they thought.
但是，正如海伦所说，这比他们想象的要困难得多。
It was hard for them to share money.
他们很难分享金钱。
Plus the fact that they had set up for themselves these meager budgets, just very small amounts of money for clothes and for gasoline and transportation, and so it just became not at all possible for them to do that.
再加上他们为自己设立的预算微薄，只有很少的钱用于购买衣服、汽油和交通，所以他们根本不可能做到这一点。
And I think that surprised them.
我认为这让他们感到惊讶。
And they didn't want to say they didn't want to share.
他们不想说他们不想分享。
And they didn't want to say they wanted to keep their own money if they were working for a job, but they needed it, you know.
他们不想说，如果他们在找工作，他们想保留自己的钱，但你知道，他们需要它。
I mean, they were poor.
我的意思是，他们很穷。
All the things they needed to keep going were things the Church used to provide, community and common purpose, organization and financial support, that made the work possible.
他们继续前进所需的所有东西都是教会用来提供的东西，社区和共同目标，组织和财政支持，使工作成为可能。
They really couldn't make what they wanted, an order of sisters, without the institution, without the hierarchy, without the things that drove them crazy, so they struggled with obedience.
她们实在无法做出她们想要的东西，一个姐妹会，没有机构，没有等级制度，没有让她们发疯的东西，所以她们在服从中挣扎。
They struggled with poverty.
他们与贫困作斗争。
That left one more vow.
这就留下了又一个誓言。
They had promised to remain celibate.
他们曾承诺保持独身。
And I don't think they intended to romance, but there were a lot of young men in the mountains who were in love with these sisters.
我不认为他们是想谈恋爱，但山里有很多年轻人爱上了这对姐妹。
I mean, they were intrigued with them and, I think, they had fantasies of romancing Catholic sisters.
我的意思是，他们对她们很感兴趣，而且我认为她们对浪漫的天主教姐妹有幻想。
Maybe.
或许。
I don't know.
我不知道。
And so, very soon, they were being hit upon by some of these young men or, at least, being courted.
因此，很快，他们就被其中一些年轻人搭讪，或者至少被追求了。
They'd left the Church in 1967.
他们于 1967 年离开了教会。
By 1969 they were making money, working regular jobs, and living apart from one another.
到了 1969 年，他们开始赚钱，做着正常的工作，并且分居。
Many were dating and married.
许多人约会并结婚了。
Finally, they all gathered together in Big Stone Gap and decided they didn't want to have an organization at all.
最后，他们聚集在大石峡，并决定根本不想建立一个组织。
They didn't want to do the fund raising.
他们不想筹集资金。
They didn't want to contribute from their own wages.
他们不想用自己的工资做出贡献。
They didn't want all the meetings where they'd make decisions together.
他们不希望所有会议都一起做出决定。
And they didn't want to pay for a staff.
他们不想支付员工费用。
As president, Monica was fired.
作为总统，莫妮卡被解雇了。
I remember it, distinctly, because it was at this set of three workshops that I organize.
我记得很清楚，因为我就是在这三个研讨会上组织的。
And I remember sitting in the room that was the dining room, where the big table was located, and screaming.
我记得我坐在餐厅的房间里，那里有一张大桌子，我尖叫着。
And I made a scream like an animal.
我像动物一样尖叫起来。
And I was just flattened, but I knew it was the right thing to do.
我感到很沮丧，但我知道这是正确的做法。
I perfectly agreed with what people were saying.
我完全同意人们的说法。
All those high ideals that we had weren't able to be materialized in the real world.
我们所有的崇高理想都无法在现实世界中实现。
All those pictures in my mind were changed.
我脑海中所有的画面都变了。
When they look back, Monica and the others don't think it was a mistake to leave the church and they don't really see FOCIS as a failure.
当他们回顾过去时，莫妮卡和其他人并不认为离开教会是一个错误，他们也不认为 FOCIS 是一个失败。
Things evolve, they say.
他们说，事情在发展。
They continue to do the same kind of work, most of them, but on their own in social service jobs of different kinds.
他们中的大多数人继续从事同样的工作，但自己从事不同种类的社会服务工作。
And many of them have stayed in touch.
他们中的许多人一直保持着联系。
23 of the former sisters along with their husbands, and partners, and children, are still members of a scaled-back version of FOCIS.
其中 23 名前姐妹连同她们的丈夫、伴侣和孩子，仍然是缩减版 FOCIS 的成员。
They gather at least once a year to socialize, worship, and study together.
他们每年至少聚集一次，一起社交、崇拜和学习。
And now, as many of the members enter their 60's and 70's, they're wanting to try again and build one, last organization, a retirement center, a place where, as Monica says, they can live together, care for each other, and learn to age and die gracefully.
现在，随着许多成员进入 60 岁和 70 岁，他们想再次尝试建立一个最后的组织，一个退休中心，正如莫妮卡所说，一个他们可以一起生活、互相照顾、学会优雅地老去和死亡的地方。
Our program was produced today by Alex Blumberg and myself with Diane Cook, Jane Golombisky, Starlee Kine and Sarah Koenig.
今天我们的节目由 Alex Blumberg 和我本人以及 Diane Cook、Jane Golombisky、Starlee Kine 和 Sarah Koenig 制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Kelsey [?
托德·巴赫曼和凯尔西的制作帮助[？
O'Dell.
奥戴尔.
?]
？]
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] You know, you can download audio of our program at audible.com/thisamericanlife where they have Public Radio programs, best-selling books, even The New York Times all at audible.com.
[致谢] 您知道，您可以在 audible.com/thisamericanlife 下载我们节目的音频，那里有公共广播节目、畅销书，甚至《纽约时报》都在 audible.com 上。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, he reminds you.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 监督，他提醒您。
'Til next time, take care of yourself and each other.
直到下次，照顾好自己和彼此。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "MARIA", THE SOUND OF MUSIC SOUNDTRACK]
[音乐 - 《玛丽亚》，音乐之声原声带]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。