257: What I Should’ve Said - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #257 | February 18, 2005 257: What I Should’ve Said Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 257 集 | 2005 年 2 月 18 日 257：我应该说的话 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass About a year and a half ago, when my mom was dying, I had this experience that I bring up here because I think it's so common.
序言 Ira Glass 大约一年半前，当我妈妈去世时，我有过这样的经历，我在这里提出来，因为我认为这很常见。
She and I were in different cities, and I would go see her most weekends when she got sick.
我和她在不同的城市，大多数周末她生病的时候我都会去看她。
It was pretty clear she didn't have a lot of time left.
很明显，留给她的时间不多了。
And I kept thinking, we should be having these really big conversations.
我一直在想，我们应该进行这些真正重要的对话。
And I don't even know what it is that I wanted to talk about.
我什至不知道我想谈论什么。
It just seemed like anything that we needed to say to each other, we'd better say now before it was too late.
似乎我们需要对彼此说任何话，我们最好现在就说，以免为时已晚。
But truthfully, it wasn't like we had big issues that needed to be resolving or anything like that.
但说实话，我们并不是有什么大问题需要解决或类似的问题。
All that stuff had been done years ago.
所有这些事情几年前就已经完成了。
And so I would go.
所以我会去。
And mostly what she wanted was just company.
而她最想要的只是陪伴。
So we'd watch old movies, and we'd watch TV, and we'd play a little cards and chat about whatever small thing would come up.
所以我们会看老电影，我们会看电视，我们会打一点牌，聊聊会发生的任何小事。
And at one level, this was fine.
从某种程度上来说，这很好。
It was completely fine.
一切都很好。
It was fine.
很好。
And like I say, it was what she wanted.
就像我说的，这就是她想要的。
But at another level, I would sit there intermittently and secretly very anxious that I was wasting this time.
但在另一个层面上，我会断断续续地坐在那里，暗暗担心自己浪费了这段时间。
That in 6 months or 2 years or 10 years, I was going to look back, and I was going to feel sorry that we had never talked about-- you know what?
六个月、两年或十年后，当我回头看时，我会为我们从未谈论过——你知道吗？
I didn't even know what we hadn't talked about.
我什至不知道我们没有谈论什么。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Like who was her best friend in junior high school, or what her house was like when she was a little girl.
比如她初中时最好的朋友是谁，或者她小时候她的房子是什么样子。
I have a friend whose father died not too long ago who told me, well, if nothing else, I should use this time to just ask all the questions about all those little stories that I think I might want to know some day.
我有一个朋友，他的父亲不久前去世了，他告诉我，好吧，如果没有别的事，我应该利用这段时间问所有我想有一天我可能想知道的小故事的所有问题。
And we did talk about some of that stuff.
我们确实讨论了其中一些事情。
There were some old stories that I never really had straight that now I know.
有一些我以前从未真正了解过的古老故事，现在我知道了。
And there were a couple of times sitting on the couch in the middle of some long afternoon where I asked my mom, is there anything that you want to talk about?
有几次，在某个漫长的下午，我坐在沙发上问妈妈，你有什么想谈谈的吗？
Is anything that we need to talk about?
有什么我们需要讨论的吗？
Anything we need to have resolved or that we need to discuss?
有什么我们需要解决或需要讨论的吗？
And she asked me, why, in my 20s, pretty much through my entire 20s, I was so distant from the family.
她问我，为什么在我20多岁的时候，几乎整个20多岁的时候，我与家人的距离如此遥远。
And I asked her about all the years that she and my dad completely disapproved of my career in public radio.
我问她多年来她和我父亲完全不赞成我在公共广播电台的职业生涯。
And we talked about these things, we talked about them, I would say, for like, I want to say a total of, I don't know, three minutes.
我们谈论了这些事情，我们谈论了它们，我想说，我想说总共，我不知道，三分钟。
And that pretty much exhausted it as subjects.
这几乎耗尽了它作为主题的能力。
And then we moved onto the next thing, and that was that.
然后我们开始做下一件事，就是这样。
Since she died, I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop.
自从她死后，我一直在等待另一只鞋落地。
I keep waiting for the day that I'm going to be talking to somebody or reading something or watching TV, and suddenly I realize something that I want to ask my mom about.
我一直在等待有一天我要和某人交谈、读一些东西或看电视，突然我意识到我想问妈妈一些事情。
That suddenly I realize what we should have talked about during that stretch of all those weeks, what I should have said back then.
突然我意识到我们应该在这几周的时间里谈论什么，我当时应该说些什么。
I know it's going to happen, and the only question is, is it going to be tomorrow?
我知道这会发生，唯一的问题是，会是明天吗？
Or is it going to be the next day?
还是第二天就可以了？
Or is it going to be next month?
或者是下个月？
Or is it going to be next year?
或者是明年？
I know that people have this kind of feeling about the living also.
我知道人们对生者也有这种感觉。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
They have this feeling about their living friends and relatives, that they wish that they could go back and have do-overs and say something better or say the thing that it took them a really long time to figure out needed to be said.
他们对活着的朋友和亲戚有这样的感觉，他们希望能够回去重来，说一些更好的话，或者说一些他们花了很长时间才弄清楚需要说的话。
And in my experience-- maybe I'm unusual-- but in my experience, people almost never go back to do that.
根据我的经验——也许我很不寻常——但根据我的经验，人们几乎永远不会回去这样做。
Even when the people are alive.
即使人们还活着。
They never go back and straighten it out and say it.
他们从不回去纠正并说出来。
Well, today on our radio program, we have stories about what it would mean to actually go back.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目中，我们有关于真正回去意味着什么的故事。
What it would mean to finally say everything that you should have said at the time, but that most people never, ever do.
最终说出你当时应该说的一切，但大多数人从来没有这样做，这意味着什么？
We make an unscientific inquiry into that question.
我们对这个问题进行了不科学的探究。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our program today in four time-traveling acts.
我们今天的节目有四幕穿越时空的表演。
Act One, Freeze Frame, in which Mr. Jonathan Goldstein, for once in his life, gets to suspend time itself, freeze the hands of time, and finally come up with the right thing to say in some situation.
第一幕“定格”中，乔纳森·戈尔茨坦先生一生中第一次能够暂停时间本身，冻结时间之手，并最终在某些情况下说出正确的话。
Act Two, In The Bush Leagues.
第二幕，布什联盟。
We hear the true story of a 20-something activist who heckled the President of the United States, years ago, and failed horribly.
我们听到了一位二十多岁的活动家的真实故事，他多年前曾质问美国总统，但遭到了可怕的失败。
President Bush completely bested this guy, leaving him mulling it over late at night for years.
布什总统彻底击败了这个家伙，让他在深夜里思考了好几年。
Act Three, A Can of Worms.
第三幕，一罐蠕虫。
David Sedaris wishes that he could take back a wish in an act.
大卫·塞达里斯希望他能通过表演收回自己的愿望。
Act Four, Life Sentence, in which the president of the Maryland State Senate, a veteran politician, talks about the off-the-cuff remark that many people say changed his life forever.
第四幕，无期徒刑，马里兰州参议院议长、一位资深政治家谈到了许多人认为永远改变了他的生活的即兴言论。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One: Freeze Frame Ira Glass Act One, Freeze Frame.
第一幕：定格 Ira Glass 第一幕，定格。
This is the sort of story that I think it's best to introduce the way that you would do a movie trailer.
我认为这种故事最好以电影预告片的方式来介绍。
Ladies and gentlemen, if regret has a name-- a name, that is, besides regret-- that name is Jonathan Goldstein.
女士们先生们，如果遗憾有一个名字——除了遗憾之外还有一个名字——这个名字就是乔纳森·戈德斯坦。
Here he is, with some thoughts and a big plan to change things.
他在这里，带着一些想法和一个改变一切的宏伟计划。
Let me start by saying I have pretty much regretted every single thing that's ever come out of my mouth, from my bar mitzvah speech with its inordinate use of the word cherished, to the manner in which I recently responded to my dental hygienist when asked whether the office radio was on too loud.
首先我要说的是，我对从我嘴里说出的每一句话都感到非常后悔，从我在成人礼演讲中过度使用“珍惜”这个词，到最近当我的牙科保健员被问及办公室收音机是否开得太大声时，我的反应方式。
I said, no, it wasn't too loud.
我说，不，声音不太大。
"In fact," I said, "it was totally cool." Lord knows where that came from.
“事实上，”我说，“这太酷了。”天知道那是从哪里来的。
But once words are out there, they are out there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
但一旦言论出来，它们就在那里，你对此无能为力。
There are moments where I have misspoken or somehow failed to live up to the occasion that I am capable of replaying in my mind, searching for what I should have said, even years later.
有些时候，我说错了话，或者不知何故未能辜负我能够在脑海中重播的时刻，寻找我应该说的话，即使是多年以后。
These moments have attached themselves to my brain like frightened cats that resist prying.
这些时刻就像受惊的猫一样附着在我的大脑中，拒绝窥探。
And my capacity for regretting them sometimes feels like the deepest, most enduring part of my personality.
有时，我感到后悔的能力是我性格中最深刻、最持久的部分。
Case in point: about 15 years ago, I was riding a train to Toronto with my girlfriend at the time, when she asked me if I could catch the porter's eye and ask him for a glass of 7UP.
举个例子：大约15年前，我和当时的女朋友一起坐火车去多伦多，当时她问我是否可以引起行李员的注意，并向他要一杯7UP。
I didn't like the idea of bothering the train workers.
我不喜欢打扰火车工作人员。
As a group, they put forth a fair bit of gruff, and I did not like receiving the stuff.
作为一个群体，他们发出了相当粗暴的声音，而我不喜欢收到这些东西。
In fact, even a tiny little bit of gruff would be enough to ruin my weekend.
事实上，即使是一点点粗鲁也足以毁掉我的周末。
Still, she was my girlfriend, and they had just handed out salted peanuts, and a drink seemed like a pretty good idea.
不过，她是我的女朋友，他们刚刚分发了咸花生，喝一杯似乎是个好主意。
I would probably even end up taking a sip off of hers.
我什至可能最终会喝一口她的。
"Why don't you ask him," I said, offering a compromise.
“你为什么不问问他呢？”我说，提出了一个妥协方案。
And by compromise, I meant I'd sit beside her pretending to be engrossed in a copy of Rolling Stone while she got yelled at.
通过妥协，我的意思是，当她被吼叫时，我会坐在她旁边假装全神贯注于一本《滚石》杂志。
"You should," she said.
“你应该，”她说。
"You're the man."
“你就是那个男人。”
She was right about that.
她是对的。
I was the man.
我就是那个男人。
An 18-year-old man who was spending his first weekend out of town with a woman.
一名 18 岁男子与一名女子一起出城度过第一个周末。
When the porter, who must have easily been at least 75, came moseying by, I craned my head into the aisle and said, just like this, "E-- excuse me, but d-- do you think that maybe I could get a 7UP, please, when you get a chance, if that-- if that's possible?"
当那个至少 75 岁的搬运工走过来时，我把头伸进过道，就像这样说：“呃——对不起，但是——你认为也许我可以得到 7UP，拜托，当你有机会时，如果——如果可能的话？”
"I already gave you a drink," he said.
“我已经给你倒了一杯酒了。”他说。
"There is no second 7UP."
“没有第二个7UP。”
"No, no, you did," I said.
“不，不，你做到了，”我说。
"But that was before the peanuts.
“但那是在花生之前。
Now I need another.
现在我需要另一个。
Peanuts will do that to a person.
花生会对人产生这样的效果。
Ma-- make them thirsty.
妈——让他们口渴。
I'm-- I'm sorry."
我——对不起。”
"There should be a drink before and after the peanuts," I said.
“吃花生之前和之后应该喝一杯，”我说。
"That would be so great.
“那就太好了。
Don't you think that-- that might be a good idea, maybe?"
你不觉得——这也许是个好主意吗？”
All the while as I spoke, my girlfriend sat beside me, falling slowly and imperceptibly more and more out of love with me.
在我说话的过程中，我的女朋友坐在我旁边，慢慢地、不知不觉地越来越爱我了。
When he placed the plastic cup of 7UP down on my tray, he told me hoped it would help me, "wash my nuts down."
当他把 7UP 的塑料杯放在我的托盘上时，他告诉我希望这能帮助我，“把我的坚果洗掉。”
That night in bed, I realized what I should have replied.
那天晚上在床上，我意识到我应该回答什么。
"My nuts are washed, old timer.
“我的坚果已经洗干净了，老家伙。
Don't worry about me." Several months later, daydreaming in class, I thought of this.
别担心我。”几个月后，我在课堂上做白日梦时，想到了这一点。
I could have lifted up the cup in a toast and said, "To clean nuts." But at the time, all I could think to do was to look down at the tiny, effervescent world within my cup and say thanks.
我本可以举起杯子祝酒并说：“去清理坚果。”但当时，我能想到的就是低头看着杯子里那个微小的、充满活力的世界，并说声谢谢。
Within the month, my girlfriend and I would be history.
不出一个月，我和我的女朋友就将成为历史。
If I could stop time, I would not rob the Bank of England, nor would I spend probably more than an afternoon or two studying the hummingbird in mid-flight.
如果我能让时间停止，我就不会抢劫英格兰银行，也不会花一两个下午以上的时间来研究飞行中的蜂鸟。
I would use my power to freeze time just before I was about to open my mouth to speak.
在我要开口说话之前，我会用我的力量冻结时间。
I would get up from wherever I was and pace.
无论我在哪里，我都会站起来并踱步。
I would pace back and forth and perhaps drink a glass of cold water.
我会来回踱步，也许还会喝一杯冷水。
And once I had crafted the perfect response and steadied my nerves, I would unfreeze time and continue.
一旦我做出了完美的回应并稳定了我的神经，我就会解冻时间并继续。
Of course, one cannot stop time, but one can stop tape.
当然，时间无法停止，但磁带可以停止。
As an exercise in getting things right, I decided to go through one entire day tape-recording all of my interactions.
作为把事情做好的练习，我决定用一整天的时间录制我所有的互动。
That way, when the day was over, I would be able to go back over all of my conversations.
这样，当一天结束时，我就可以回顾所有的谈话。
And by stopping the tape and inserting the right words, I would be able to make everything, finally and for once, perfect.
通过停止磁带并插入正确的单词，我将能够使一切最终且一次变得完美。
Lord knows saying the right words to people's faces would be far too frightening, but right here, behind their backs on the radio, that would be just right.
天知道当着人们的面说正确的话太可怕了，但就在这里，在广播里背着他们说，那就恰到好处了。
So in the morning, I had to go by to my friend Mary's house to babysit her kids.
所以早上，我不得不去我朋友玛丽家照顾她的孩子。
Helen is four, and Katie is two.
海伦四岁，凯蒂两岁。
This is what the kids do every time they see me.
这就是孩子们每次见到我都会做的事情。
They start chanting.
他们开始念诵。
They chant, "Silly Johnny." For them, that is my name.
他们高呼“愚蠢的约翰尼”。对他们来说，这就是我的名字。
It is what they call me.
他们就是这么称呼我的。
Silly Johnny.
愚蠢的约翰尼。
Silly Johnny, silly Johnny, silly Johnny, silly Johnny.
愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼。
OK, hold it right here.
好的，就放在这里。
There they stand, frozen like porcelain figurines, their mouths frozen wide open, their heads thrown back in cruel delight.
他们站在那里，像瓷雕像一样僵硬，嘴巴张得大大的，头向后仰，露出残忍的喜悦。
And this is what I should have said.
这就是我应该说的。
I am not the silly one, baby Katie.
我不是傻瓜，宝贝凯蒂。
I could sit down to watch Apocalypse Now with a plate of spicy chicken wings and beer without getting all scarred for life.
我可以坐下来，一边吃着一盘辣鸡翅和啤酒，一边看《现代启示录》，而不会留下终生的伤痕。
And I do not have to wear diapers, unless, of course, I choose to.
我也不必穿尿布，当然，除非我选择这样做。
And Helen, can you walk out the door anytime you want, go to an ATM machine, and put a down payment on a leather couch?
海伦，你可以随时走出家门，到 ATM 机前，在皮沙发上支付首付吗？
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
So who's really silly?
那么到底谁是真正的傻子呢？
Instead, I said this.
相反，我这么说。
Helen And Katie Silly Johnny, silly Johnny, silly Johnny, silly Johnny, silly Johnny.
海伦和凯蒂 愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼。
Silly Johnny, silly Johnny, silly John, silly Johnny, silly Johnny, silly--
愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的约翰尼，愚蠢的——
Mary runs a profitable fancy soap shop, and she's been looking for a part-time employee for months.
玛丽经营着一家盈利的高档肥皂店，几个月来她一直在寻找兼职员工。
And every time she starts in about how hard it is to find good help these days, I always tell her how I'd be available to work in the store a few afternoons a week.
每当她开始谈论现在找到好的帮助是多么困难时，我总是告诉她我每周有几个下午可以在商店工作。
And then Mary will suddenly remember something she left in the oven.
然后玛丽会突然想起她留在烤箱里的东西。
Or she'll change the subject by complimenting me on the sporty-looking jersey I'm wearing, which, truthfully, is not sporty at all or for that matter, even a jersey, unless an undershirt can be called a jersey.
或者她会转移话题，称赞我穿的运动衫，说实话，它根本不运动，甚至连运动衫也算不上，除非汗衫可以称为运动衫。
Having most of the morning to watch the kids and brood, I decided that when Mary got back, I was going to broach the subject straight on.
早上的大部分时间都在观察孩子们和思考，我决定等玛丽回来后，我要直接提出这个话题。
How come you won't have me work for you?
你为什么不让我为你工作？
You know I would be a good employee, right?
你知道我会成为一名好员工，对吗？
Now, you see, most people would just drop the subject right here.
现在，你看，大多数人都会在这里放弃这个话题。
But I am not most people.
但我不是大多数人。
You really feel that way?
你真的有这样的感觉吗？
Mary Yes.
玛丽 是的。
The first thing is, you pay no attention.
首先，你没有注意。
You're completely spaced-out.
你完全处于恍惚状态。
Plus, you look a little bit ratty, and I think that the women who are coming in to ask you advice about fragrance and the different soaps and how well they wash, I don't think you look the type that would be able to give them some good advice.
另外，你看起来有点烦躁，我认为那些进来向你询问有关香水、不同肥皂以及清洗效果的建议的女性，我不认为你看起来是那种能够给她们提供好建议的人。
And you don't follow direction.
而且你不遵循指示。
And you can't multitask.
而且你不能同时处理多项任务。
Later in the afternoon, I had to drop by the bookstore and pick up, for reasons I won't go into right here, a book on patent law.
下午晚些时候，我不得不去书店买一本关于专利法的书，原因我不会在这里详细介绍。
So when I get to the bookstore, this guy I know, Billy, is there.
所以当我到达书店时，我认识的那个人比利就在那里。
He doesn't work at the store, but he's there pretty much every time I go in, leaning against the counter and recommending The Master and Margarita to anyone who will listen.
他不在店里工作，但每次我进去时，他几乎都在那里，靠在柜台上，向任何愿意听的人推荐《大师》和《玛格丽塔》。
Anyway, in the back of the store, Billy and I get into this discussion about Lord of The Rings.
不管怎样，在商店后面，比利和我开始讨论《指环王》。
I'm not even sure how we got onto the subject.
我什至不知道我们是如何进入这个话题的。
Billy is one of those guys who in high school used to hang up maps of Middle-earth in his locker.
比利是高中时经常在储物柜里挂中土世界地图的人之一。
The kind of guy who could sing songs by Simon & Garfunkel in Elvish.
那种能用精灵语唱西蒙和加芬克尔歌曲的人。
I start telling him about how I had just seen the movie, and how Frodo struck me as a little overly emotional about carrying the ring.
我开始告诉他我刚刚看了这部电影，以及弗罗多对携带戒指的感觉有点过于情绪化。
Sure, the ring tempted people with acts of evil, but so does combining Jack Daniels, insomnia, and the Google search engine.
当然，戒指会用邪恶的行为引诱人们，但将杰克丹尼、失眠和谷歌搜索引擎结合在一起也会产生同样的效果。
I said I didn't think it would be such a huge deal to carry the ring, at least for a little while.
我说我不认为携带戒指有什么大不了的，至少在一段时间内是这样。
Now, admittedly, our whole argument was ridiculous, but as ridiculous as it was, I was still losing.
现在，诚然，我们的整个争论都很荒谬，但尽管很荒谬，我仍然失败了。
I give you the Ring of Power, OK?
我给你力量之戒，好吗？
What are you going to do with it, John?
约翰，你打算用它做什么？
What are you doing to do with it?
你要用它做什么？
I-- Billy No question about it.
我——比利 毫无疑问。
You wouldn't pull it off.
你不会成功的。
You couldn't pull it off.
你无法成功。
You'd die.
你会死的。
Your soul would be taken.
你的灵魂会被夺走。
Finished, end of story.
完结了，故事结束。
You wouldn't cut it.
你不会剪掉它。
You wouldn't cut it on the throne.
你不会在王座上砍掉它。
You wouldn't even be a steward of Gondor.
你甚至连刚铎的管家都配不上。
You wouldn't even be one of the Rohirrim?
你甚至不会成为洛希尔人中的一员？
And you want to hold the ring?
你想握住戒指吗？
You couldn't hold the ring, John.
你拿不住戒指，约翰。
Now, if I could have just paused things right here, right at this very moment, paced around a bit, shadow-boxed myself towards the right state of mind, I might have found the gumption to say that I didn't even want the stinking ring because all it does is turn you into a pretentious diva anyway.
现在，如果我能在此时此地暂停一切，稍微踱步，让自己保持正确的心态，我可能会勇敢地说我什至不想要那枚发臭的戒指，因为它所做的一切只会让你变成一个自命不凡的女主角。
Everyone who holds it becomes Zsa Zsa Gabor.
每个持有它的人都会成为莎莎嘉宝。
I would have said that even thinking about this ring stuff was for 14-year-old black-hooded Goth kids who strap suede pouches of 20-sided dice from their belts as fashion accessories.
我想说，即使是 14 岁的戴着黑兜帽的哥特孩子也会想到这个戒指，他们把装着 20 面骰子的麂皮袋挂在腰带上作为时尚配饰。
Instead, I answered this way.
相反，我这样回答。
Jonathan Goldstein Um, I don't know.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦 嗯，我不知道。
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
I don't know.
我不知道。
To which Billy replied: Billy You don't know?
比利回答说：比利你不知道吗？
You don't-- there's even a question?
你不知道——还有一个问题吗？
No, Jonathan, you couldn't hold the One Ring of Power.
不，乔纳森，你无法持有力量戒指。
I wouldn't trust you for a second with the Ring of Power.
我不会相信你有力量之戒。
Not for a second.
一秒钟都没有。
Then I started to backpedal, saying that he was probably right, that I was ill-equipped to hold the ring.
然后我开始反悔，说他可能是对的，我没有能力握住戒指。
I was weak-willed and had little sense of community.
我意志薄弱，缺乏社区意识。
I then said that he, Billy, was probably better suited to the task of ring bearer.
然后我说他，比利，可能更适合担任戒指持有者的任务。
To which Billy responded:
对此，比利回应道：
I wouldn't touch the ring, John.
我不会碰戒指，约翰。
OK?
好的？
Gandalf wouldn't touch the ring.
甘道夫不会碰戒指。
Elrond wouldn't touch the ring.
埃尔隆德不会碰戒指。
Fools like Boromir tried to touch the ring, but they died.
像博罗米尔这样的傻瓜试图触摸戒指，但他们死了。
I cannot handle the ring.
我拿不动戒指。
I am not of Hobbit stock.
我不是霍比特人。
I don't have that kind of heartiness.
我没有那样的心。
OK, stop right here.
好吧，就停在这里。
No, Billy, you don't have that kind of heartiness.
不，比利，你没有那样的热心。
You wear yellow sweatpants, and your hands are as smooth as peeled tangerines.
你穿着黄色的运动裤，你的手像剥了皮的橘子一样光滑。
You possess the unearthly habit of pulling jaw breakers out of your mouth every five seconds to check what color they are.
你有一种不可思议的习惯，每隔五秒就从嘴里拔出下颚破碎机来检查它们的颜色。
And whenever you burp, you're compelled to simultaneously speak the word, "Ralph."
每当你打嗝时，你就不得不同时说出“拉尔夫”这个词。
But if you're standing there with Billy, looking into his eyes, frozen or not, of course, you don't say anything so mean, despite the fact that you want to.
但如果你和比利站在一起，看着他的眼睛，无论是否冷漠，当然，你不会说那么刻薄的话，尽管事实上你很想说。
We all carry the ring around inside of us, and that ring is our capacity for wrongdoing.
我们的内心都带着这个戒指，而那个戒指就是我们犯错的能力。
And both he and I, in some way, wish that this capacity could be removed from within us and pounded out into a shiny ring that could be passed around from person to person, allowing us to ease the burden of our urges.
他和我，在某种程度上，都希望这种能力能够从我们内心消失，并被敲打成一个闪亮的戒指，可以在人与人之间传递，让我们减轻欲望的负担。
Such urges, say, as wanting to voice the really mean things we really think, but in the end, that would be appalling.
例如，这种冲动想要表达我们真正认为的真正卑鄙的事情，但最终，这将是令人震惊的。
And rather than voicing any of this, I said, instead:
我没有说出这些话，而是说：
Silly Johnny.
愚蠢的约翰尼。
Silly Johnny.
愚蠢的约翰尼。
In the evening, I had dinner with my parents.
晚上，我和爸爸妈妈一起吃晚饭。
I was going to be leaving to New York in a couple of days.
几天后我就要出发去纽约了。
And all evening, my father kept bringing up this bottle of vodka he wanted me to buy for him.
整个晚上，我父亲一直提起他要我给他买的这瓶伏特加。
And all evening, my mother kept cutting him off and yelling at him, louder and angrier as the night wore on.
整个晚上，我母亲不断地打断他，并对他大喊大叫，随着夜幕降临，声音越来越大，越来越愤怒。
She told him it was impossible for me to get him the bottle, simply impossible.
她告诉他我不可能给他拿瓶子，根本不可能。
Why she thought it was impossible, I have no idea.
为什么她认为这是不可能的，我不知道。
But anyway, eventually, my father dropped the subject.
但无论如何，最终我父亲放弃了这个话题。
But then, after dinner was finished, he started once more.
但吃完晚饭后，他又开始了。
It was a good meal, yeah.
这顿饭吃得很好，是的。
It was a good meal.
这是一顿美餐。
But also I would like you to bring me back another bottle of that--
但我也希望你再给我带一瓶回来——
Could you understand that he can't?
你能理解他不能吗？
It's impossible.
这是不可能的。
Stop that--
别这样——
It's imposs-- Jonathan Goldstein's Mother Yes.
这是不可能的——乔纳森·戈德斯坦的母亲 是的。
Go on out, and buy yourself what you want.
出去吧，给自己买你想要的东西。
He can't get it.
他无法得到它。
He's not going to schlep bottles from New York City for you.
他不会为你从纽约市运来瓶子。
All right.
好的。
I have to say one thing, that if I have certain pleasures in life--
我必须说一件事，如果我的生活中有某些乐趣——
Who says you need pleasures?
谁说你需要快乐？
You don't need any pleasures.
你不需要任何快乐。
You're too old already for pleasures.
你已经太老了，无法享乐。
She diminishes my manhood.
她削弱了我的男子气概。
And she knows where to hit.
她知道该打哪里。
OK, Johnny, just have some pineapple now, sweetheart.
好吧，约翰尼，现在就吃点菠萝吧，亲爱的。
Sit down and relax.
坐下来放松一下。
Come eat something.
来吃点东西吧。
OK, let's just stop right here.
好吧，我们就到此为止吧。
What do you say to that?
你对此有何看法？
Even after days of rumination, I still got nothing.
即使经过几天的思考，我仍然一无所获。
After dinner, my mother drove me to the bus stop.
吃完晚饭，妈妈开车送我去公交车站。
And in the car along the way, she spoke of how her job was going.
一路上，她在车上讲述了她的工作进展情况。
My mother works at a daycare, and she really, really loves the kids.
我妈妈在一家日托中心工作，她真的非常喜欢孩子们。
She was telling me about how her favorite thing is when the children let her hug them.
当孩子们让她拥抱他们时，她告诉我她最喜欢的事情是什么。
You used to be so mean.
以前你真是太刻薄了。
I used to beg you for hugs, and you wouldn't give me any.
我曾经乞求你拥抱，但你不给我。
You used to not give hugs.
以前你不给拥抱。
I realize now that it must have been difficult to have a child who never let you touch them.
我现在意识到，养一个不让你碰的孩子一定很困难。
In old photographs, you could see me inching away uncomfortably from her hands on my shoulders.
在旧照片中，你可以看到我不舒服地从她放在我肩膀上的手上挪开。
At my grade six prom, at the beginning of the mother-son dance, which I still remember as Barbara Streisand and Kris Kristofferson's "You Don't Bring Me Flowers," I refused to dance with her.
在我六年级的舞会上，在母子舞会开始时，我仍然记得芭芭拉·史翠珊和克里斯·克里斯托佛森的“你不给我带来鲜花”，我拒绝和她一起跳舞。
The whole notion of dancing with your mother in, of all places, your school's gymnasium struck me as unwholesome.
在所有地方中，与你母亲一起跳舞的整个想法，在你学校的体育馆里，让我觉得不健康。
If there had been a pause button on the dashboard, and I could stop time, stop the flow of traffic entirely so that all the cars beside us on the road became these blurry Monet lily pads, and I could open the passenger door and step out to pace around among them, if I could have sat down on the hood of the car and stared at my mother's face, then maybe I might then have been able to say something better than what I did say, which was this:
如果仪表盘上有一个暂停按钮，我可以让时间停止，完全停止车流，让路上所有的车都变成这些模糊的莫奈睡莲，我可以打开乘客门，走出来在它们中间踱步，如果我可以坐在车的引擎盖上，盯着我母亲的脸，那么也许我可以说一些比我现在说的更好的话，那就是：
It's really nice the way you talk about the kids in your school.
你谈论学校里的孩子们的方式真的很好。
It's-- it-- it-- you know, the-the parents are lucky to have you looking after their kids.
它——它——它——你知道，父母很幸运有你照顾他们的孩子。
You really-- you know, you give them love, you know, which is something that you can't-- you can't really pay someone to love your-- your kids the way that, you know, the way that you would want them to be loved.
你真的——你知道，你给他们爱，你知道，这是你不能的——你不能真正付钱给别人来爱你的——你的孩子，你知道，你希望他们被爱的方式。
Even as I was saying it, I knew there was a better, more difficult thing to say, namely, I am sorry for never hugging you.
即使在我这么说的时候，我也知道还有更好、更困难的事情要说，那就是，我很抱歉没有拥抱你。
Although what I did say wasn't exactly right, at that moment, it felt like the least wrong.
虽然我说的并不完全正确，但那一刻，感觉却是最不错误的。
Life isn't about saying the right thing anyway.
无论如何，生活并不在于说正确的话。
And it is certainly not about tape-recording everything so that you have to endure it more than once.
当然，这并不是要把所有事情都录下来，这样你就不得不多次忍受。
Life is about failing.
人生就是要失败。
It is about letting the tape play.
这是关于让磁带播放。
It is about eating the pineapple you are being force-fed, and, to the best of your ability, enjoying it.
这是关于吃掉你被强行喂食的菠萝，并尽你所能地享受它。
Jonathan Goldstein, author of the novel Lenny Bruce is Dead and host of the CBC radio program Wiretap.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦（Jonathan Goldstein），小说《莱尼·布鲁斯已死》（Lenny Bruce is Dead）的作者，也是 CBC 广播节目《Wiretap》的主持人。
[MUSIC - "FLY LIKE AN EAGLE" BY THE STEVE MILLER BAND]
[音乐 - 史蒂夫·米勒乐队的《FLY LIKE AN EAGLE》]
Act Two, In The Bush Leagues.
第二幕，布什联盟。
When he was in his early 20's, barely out of school, at the very first political event of his life, Charles Monroe-Kane got into a shouting match with the leader of the free world.
查尔斯·门罗·凯恩 (Charles Monroe-Kane) 20 岁出头，刚从学校毕业，在他人生中的第一次政治活动中，他与自由世界的领导人发生了一场争吵。
And he pretty much lost that one.
而他几乎失去了那个。
This was in the early 1990s.
那是在 20 世纪 90 年代初。
He just left the religious school where he had been studying to be a minister.
他刚刚离开了他一直在学习成为牧师的宗教学校。
And he moved to Amsterdam, where he fell in with a bunch of anarchists.
他搬到了阿姆斯特丹，在那里他与一群无政府主义者结下了不解之缘。
He edited an environmental newspaper called the Green Tree News.
他编辑了一份名为《绿树新闻》的环保报纸。
And I wanted to be an activist, so that's the whole reason I think I wanted to be a minister.
我想成为一名活动家，所以这就是我想成为一名部长的全部原因。
I was into liberation theology.
我热衷于解放神学。
That's what I wanted to be.
这就是我想要的。
And I was there about four or five weeks.
我在那里呆了大约四五个星期。
And the G7 meeting was happening in Munich, Germany.
七国集团会议正在德国慕尼黑举行。
President Bush-- former President Bush, or President Senior, or Dad, whatever you want to call him-- he was president.
布什总统——前布什总统，或者老总统，或者爸爸，无论你想怎么称呼他——他都是总统。
So we went down like a good activist would do.
所以我们像一个优秀的活动家一样倒下了。
It was in Munich, Germany.
那是在德国慕尼黑。
We went down to protest.
我们下楼抗议。
And I had only been doing this for four or five weeks, so I was kind of down.
我只做了四五个星期，所以我有点沮丧。
It was my first political action ever.
这是我第一次采取政治行动。
I was sleeping in the back of a bus with a bunch of dread-locked people.
我和一群留着辫子的人一起睡在公共汽车的后座上。
I had my hair down over my shoulders, and I had just gotten my ear pierced.
我的头发披在肩上，而且我刚刚打了耳洞。
I had a peace sign in my earring.
我的耳环上有一个和平标志。
You can imagine the person, right?
你可以想象这个人，对吗？
And so basically, we were going down to protest, and I had this press pass.
基本上，我们是要去抗议，我有这张记者通行证。
I'm a bit of a talker, bit of a schmoozer.
我有点爱说话，也有点爱闲聊。
Met some people there, and found out that there are seven levels of press passes.
在那里认识了一些人，发现记者通行证有七个级别。
I had level number one, which got you nothing but some faxes.
我有第一级，除了一些传真之外什么也没有。
Level number two got you nothing but some faxes, but also got you this buffet once a day.
第二层除了一些传真之外什么也没有给你，但也给你提供了每天一次的自助餐。
And now I'm sleeping in a bus.
现在我在公共汽车上睡觉。
I'm like, well, hell, I'm not stupid.
我想，好吧，见鬼，我并不傻。
So I fandango my way in-- press pass number two.
所以我用方丹戈的方式进入——按第二号通行证。
Well, of course, food brought me to number three and number four.
嗯，当然，食物让我达到了第三和第四。
Now, number five got you a hotel room.
现在，五号给你安排了一间酒店房间。
I thought, well, my friends could use this.
我想，好吧，我的朋友们可以用这个。
Because we were starting to smell on the second day.
因为我们第二天就开始闻到气味了。
So I kept BS-ing my way all the way through just to get these press passes.
所以我一直在胡言乱语，只是为了得到这些记者通行证。
Wait, so you get the room?
等等，你拿到房间了吗？
Charles Monroe-kane All the way to the sixth level, yeah.
查尔斯·门罗·凯恩 一直到第六级，是的。
I get the room.
我得到了房间。
We get in there-- and the food was awesome, by the way, on the sixth level-- and the suite was-- it was a decent-- it was almost like a suite.
我们进去了——顺便说一下，六楼的食物很棒——而且套房——很不错——几乎就像套房一样。
It was a decent size where all of us could stay for free.
房间大小合适，我们所有人都可以免费入住。
And then what happens is I'm with some people who later became very good friends of mine, but at the time, I didn't know them very well.
然后发生的事情是我和一些后来成为我很好的朋友的人在一起，但当时我不太了解他们。
A friend named Paxus and some others who were high level at Friends of The Earth and Greenpeace.
一位名叫帕克苏斯的朋友和其他一些地球之友和绿色和平组织的高层人士。
These people are like, "Do you realize what you have?
这些人就像是，“你意识到你拥有什么吗？
You have a level six press pass at the G7 meeting.
您在 G7 会议上拥有六级记者通行证。
You have access to all these places and all these things."
你可以访问所有这些地方和所有这些东西。”
"OK, that's cool." He said, "But what you don't have is you don't have a White House press pass.
“好吧，那太好了。”他说：“但是你没有的是白宫记者通行证。
That's the top level." So he's like, "You know what you ought to do?
那是最高水平。”所以他就像，“你知道你应该做什么吗？
You ought to try the next level.
你应该尝试下一个级别。
You should try to get a White House press pass."
你应该尝试获得白宫记者通行证。”
I said, "Why?" He said, "Because you could be live at a press conference.
我说：“为什么？”他说：“因为你可以参加新闻发布会。
You can protest.
你可以抗议。
Tomorrow, George Bush, at 11 o'clock in the morning"-- this is in the afternoon the day before-- "he's giving a live press conference on CNN."
明天，乔治·布什，上午 11 点”——这是前一天的下午——“他将在 CNN 上举行现场新闻发布会。”
I was like, "Oh, I never thought of it.
我当时想，“哦，我从来没有想过。
I've never done an action before."
我以前从来没有做过任何动作。”
So I went, and I went to this beer garden where I knew some of the people who made the decisions were.
所以我去了，我去了这个啤酒花园，在那里我认识一些做出决定的人。
And I met a man named Marlin Fitzwater-- I think a lot of people might know who he is-- and he's sitting there drinking.
我遇到了一个叫马林·菲茨沃特的人——我想很多人可能知道他是谁——他正坐在那里喝酒。
But I didn't know who the hell he was.
但我不知道他到底是谁。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Ira Glass The actual White House Press Secretary.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 实际的白宫新闻秘书。
Because that's the step.
因为这就是步骤。
Because that's a higher level.
因为那是更高的层次。
The president's got a different security issue.
总统有一个不同的安全问题。
Well, here's the logic for him, right?
嗯，这就是他的逻辑，对吗？
He's already assumed I've been checked.
他已经认为我已经被检查了。
Remember, he already knows I have the sixth level press pass, so I'm not like I'm an anarchist in Amsterdam or something like that, for Christ's sake.
请记住，他已经知道我有六级记者通行证，所以我不像阿姆斯特丹的无政府主义者或类似的人，看在上帝的份上。
So I think that he wasn't too worried about that.
所以我认为他对此并不太担心。
So then, anyway, he gives me a press pass.
所以无论如何，他给了我一张记者通行证。
It's very exciting.
这非常令人兴奋。
I go back to my hotel room with a bunch of naked, dirty hippies, and I show these people the press pass.
我和一群赤身裸体、肮脏的嬉皮士一起回到酒店房间，然后给这些人看了记者通行证。
And they flip out.
然后他们就发疯了。
They're like, "You're kidding.
他们会说：“你在开玩笑吧。
You got it." I don't understand the ramifications of what's about to happen at all.
你明白了。”我根本不明白即将发生的事情的后果。
So basically, they're like, "Well, tomorrow morning, President Bush, at 11 o'clock in the morning, is giving this conference, a press conference live on CNN.
所以基本上，他们会说，“好吧，明天早上 11 点，布什总统将召开这次会议，一场由 CNN 直播的新闻发布会。
You should-- you have a press pass to go there-- I think that you should do something."
你应该——你有记者证可以去那里——我认为你应该做点什么。”
So then I sit down with these guys, these guys now who are like-- all the hippie, dirty activists are out of the room, and now I've got the Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth people who know what they're talking about guys.
然后我和这些人坐下来，现在所有嬉皮士、肮脏的活动人士都离开了房间，现在我请来了绿色和平组织、地球之友，他们知道自己在说什么。
And they're like, "Have you thought about what you're going to say?"
他们会说，“你有没有想过你要说什么？”
And I was like, "No, not really."
我当时想，“不，不是真的。”
So we talked about it.
所以我们讨论了这个问题。
And they said, "The most important thing to do is two things.
他们说：“最重要的事情是两件事。
Keep your hands away from your body while you do this, so you don't get shot.
执行此操作时，请保持双手远离身体，以免被枪击。
Because they might think it's an attempted assassination or something.
因为他们可能认为这是一次企图暗杀之类的事情。
And you're going to get 20 to 30 seconds max.
你最多有 20 到 30 秒的时间。
That's all you're going to get, so know what you're going to say."
这就是你所能得到的一切，所以知道你要说什么。”
Wait, wait.
等等，等等。
These are the two pieces of advice they give you?
这是他们给你的两条建议？
Piece of advice number one is, don't get yourself shot?
第一个建议是，不要让自己被枪杀？
Like, that's--
就像，那就是——
It's good advice, though.
不过，这是个好建议。
And I took it.
我接受了。
Because they were like, "Keep your hands away from your body." They said, "Don't wear a watch.
因为他们就像是，“把手远离你的身体。”他们说：“不要戴手表。
Roll up your sleeves, or have on a short-sleeve shirt.
卷起袖子，或者穿短袖衬衫。
You have to be careful.
你必须小心。
You're in a small room.
你在一个小房间里。
You're standing up-- basically, you're going to stand up on a chair.
你要站起来——基本上，你要站在椅子上。
Situate yourself in the middle of the room, so you're hard to get at by the Secret Service guys, who are going to, in 15 or 30 seconds, drag you away and arrest you.
坐在房间中央，这样特勤人员就很难找到你，他们会在 15 或 30 秒内把你拖走并逮捕你。
So what are you going to say?"
那你想说什么？”
And I thought, "Well, all I know is Christianity."
我想：“好吧，我只知道基督教。”
And they said, "Well, that's OK.
他们说：“好吧，没关系。
You can go with that.
你可以接受。
Americans relate to that."
美国人对此也有同感。”
And I said, "You know, I've always wanted to be one of the Old Testament prophets.
我说：“你知道，我一直想成为旧约先知之一。
I thought that would be really cool.
我认为那真的很酷。
That's kind of a life dream.
这就是一种人生梦想。
That was what I wanted to be."
这就是我想成为的人。”
Now, wait, wait.
现在，等等，等等。
Now when you say this to a bunch of real activists, "I've always wanted to be one of the Old Testament prophets," is that pretty much where they roll their eyes and slowly shake their heads and look at the ground?
现在，当你对一群真正的活动家说“我一直想成为旧约先知中的一员”时，他们是否会翻白眼，慢慢摇头，看着地面？
They just think, "Oh, what have we gotten ourselves into here?"
他们只是想：“哦，我们到底把自己惹到了什么地方了？”
No, I think they were more like, "Jesus, this dude's got a White House press pass in his hand, and he is such an idiot.
不，我认为他们更像是，“天哪，这家伙手里拿着一张白宫记者通行证，他真是个白痴。
He's so not prepared that we've got to help this kid out.
他还没有做好准备，所以我们必须帮助这个孩子。
Because we don't have the press pass.
因为我们没有记者证。
He does, and he's the only one who's going to get in."
他做到了，而且他是唯一一个能进去的人。”
And so I went to the Bible.
于是我就去看圣经。
And my favorite profit was Jeremiah.
我最喜欢的利润是耶利米。
And Jeremiah had a certain style.
耶利米有一种特定的风格。
So I think, "Here's what I want to do.
所以我想，“这就是我想做的。
I want to get some ashes.
我想要一些骨灰。
I'm going to put some ashes on my head.
我要把一些骨灰放在我的头上。
I want to rip my shirt off, rip it open [MAKES RIPPING SOUND] like that.
我想撕掉我的衬衫，像那样撕开它[发出撕裂的声音]。
And I'm going to give him a line from the Old Testament.
我要给他一段旧约圣经中的一句话。
A good line."
一条好线。”
And they said, "Well, maybe you shouldn't quote the Bible.
他们说：“好吧，也许你不应该引用圣经。
You should do it in that style, something from your thing."
你应该以那种风格去做，从你的事情中做一些事情。”
So I thought about it, thought about it, and I came up with this great line.
所以我想了想，想了想，想出了这个伟大的台词。
"The homeless in the trees are mourning your economic decisions.
“树上的无家可归者正在哀悼你们的经济决定。
Repent, dear King, or go to hell." I thought, "Now, that's a good line." That's good.
悔改吧，亲爱的国王，否则就下地狱吧。”我想，“现在，这是一条很好的路线。”那挺好的。
It's about him, but it takes inanimate objects into effect.
这是关于他的，但它使无生命的物体发挥作用。
I'm an environmental activist as well.
我也是一名环保活动家。
So I said, "That's what I'm going to do."
所以我说：“这就是我要做的。”
Now Charles, can we just pause the story right here--
现在查尔斯，我们可以在这里暂停这个故事吗——
Absolutely.
绝对的。
Ira Glass And let's move to the present, a dozen years later.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：让我们回到十几年后的现在。
Now, when you think about that quote now, as the adult you are, how do you view that quote now?
现在，当你现在思考这句话时，作为成年人，你现在如何看待这句话？
Oh, my god, it's the most embarrassing choice of anything I would ever use in my life.
哦，天哪，这是我一生中使用过的最尴尬的选择。
If I had 30 seconds to choose now, I think I would say something maybe a little bit more, a little less, whatever-- symbolic, I don't know.
如果我现在有 30 秒的时间来选择，我想我会说一些话，也许多一点，少一点，无论如何——象征性的，我不知道。
But that's what I had.
但这就是我所拥有的。
I was 22, and that's all I knew.
我当时22岁，这就是我所知道的一切。
So I practiced it over and over again.
所以我一遍又一遍地练习。
"The homeless in the trees are mourning your economic decisions.
“树上的无家可归者正在哀悼你们的经济决定。
Repent, dear King, or go to hell.
亲爱的国王，悔改吧，否则就下地狱吧。
The homeless in the trees are mourning your economic decisions.
树上的无家可归者正在哀悼你们的经济决定。
Repent, dear King, or go to hell." Hands away from my body.
悔改吧，亲爱的国王，否则就下地狱吧。”手离开我的身体。
But then one of the activists guys came up with a great idea, this American guy.
但后来一位积极分子想出了一个好主意，就是这个美国人。
He was like, "Well, don't rip your clothes because that's going to get misunderstood.
他说，“好吧，不要撕破你的衣服，因为这会被误解。
You should rip an American flag in half.
你应该把美国国旗撕成两半。
And that should be the cloth that you rip."
那应该就是你撕开的布。”
I said, "That's a great idea." So I'm going to put ashes on my forehead, I'm going to rip an American flag in half, I'm going to read that statement, yell it out with all the passion I can muster, get arrested, and awesome!
我说：“这是个好主意。”所以我要把骨灰放在额头上，我要把美国国旗撕成两半，我要把那句话读出来，用我所能聚集的所有热情大声喊出来，然后被捕，太棒了！
Wait.
等待。
Have you ever-- you've lived in the United States of America, right?
您曾经在美利坚合众国生活过吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Are you familiar with how people feel about the ripping in half of the American flag?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 您熟悉人们对美国国旗被撕成两半的感受吗？
That's probably part of the reason he liked and I liked it, I think, at the time.
我想，这可能是他当时喜欢它、我也喜欢它的部分原因。
But weren't you trying to win the sympathies of your countrymen?
但你不是想博取同胞的同情吗？
Yeah, I think I was.
是的，我想我是。
But I also think I was-- I don't know what I was trying to do, man-- I was 22.
但我也认为我——我不知道我想做什么，伙计——我当时 22 岁。
When you were 22, did you know what you were trying to do?
当你22岁的时候，你知道自己想做什么吗？
Good Lord, I don't know I was trying to do.
天哪，我不知道我在努力做什么。
So I couldn't sleep that night.
所以那天晚上我无法入睡。
They were right.
他们是对的。
I couldn't sleep.
我无法入睡。
I was a little nervous.
我有点紧张。
And they got me a shirt and a pair of pants.
他们给了我一件衬衫和一条裤子。
Some shoes that fit me.
一些适合我的鞋子。
We had to go to different activists to find it all.
我们必须去找不同的活动家才能找到这一切。
A nice tie.
一条漂亮的领带。
I took the earring out.
我把耳环拿出来了。
They had a lawyer for me.
他们为我找了一位律师。
I gave him my passport.
我把护照给了他。
Nothing in my pockets.
我的口袋里什么也没有。
But shoved down the front of my pants is an American flag-- partly ripped on the top, so I could easily rip it in half-- and some ashes in my pocket.
但我裤子前面塞着一面美国国旗——顶部有部分被撕破，所以我可以很容易地将它撕成两半——口袋里还有一些骨灰。
And this quote burned into my brain.
这句话深深地印在了我的脑海里。
It was like a zen-- I don't even know what zen is at the time-- I do now.
这就像禅宗——当时我什至不知道禅宗是什么——但现在我知道了。
But at the time, it was a zen mantra.
但在当时，这是一个禅宗咒语。
"The homeless in the trees are mourning your economic decisions.
“树上的无家可归者正在哀悼你们的经济决定。
Repent, dear King, or go to hell." And that's all I had in my mind.
悔改吧，亲爱的国王，否则就下地狱吧。”这就是我脑子里的全部想法。
So I go into the press conference saying, you know-- and a former Christian kid, here I am.
所以我在新闻发布会上说，你知道——我是一个曾经的基督徒孩子，我在这里。
So I sit down.
所以我坐下来。
I situate myself in the middle of the room.
我坐在房间中央。
There's about 44, 45 people.
大概有44、45人。
And I remember counting them.
我记得数过它们。
I was nervous, so I counted all the people.
我很紧张，所以我数了一下所有的人。
My throat was dry, and I thought I was going to pass out.
我的喉咙很干，我以为我要昏过去了。
And I didn't want to throw up.
我不想呕吐。
I knew that would be bad.
我知道那会很糟糕。
That wouldn't be a good symbol.
这不是一个好的象征。
And I didn't want to pass out.
我不想昏倒。
So it's coming up to the point.
所以事情就到了这个地步了。
My heart's aflutter.
我的心在颤抖。
Well, let me stop you right there.
好吧，让我就在那里阻止你。
Because we have here in the studio a videotape of this day, July 8, 1992.
因为我们的录音室里有 1992 年 7 月 8 日这一天的录像带。
We got this courtesy of the Vanderbilt University Television Archives.
我们得到了范德比尔特大学电视档案馆的礼貌。
And you have never seen this?
而你从来没有见过这个？
No, I've never seen it.
不，我从来没有见过。
I've never even seen the highlights from any of the news.
我什至从未见过任何新闻的亮点。
All I've seen is newspaper stuff.
我所看到的都是报纸上的东西。
I'm really nervous about watching this.
看到这个我真的很紧张。
OK.
好的。
Let's roll the tape.
让我们把胶带卷起来吧。
News Anchor Right now, let's go live to Munich to hear President Bush's comments at the close of the G7 summit.
新闻主播 现在我们去慕尼黑现场听听布什总统在七国集团峰会闭幕式上的讲话。
I totally remember that, him coming in.
我完全记得，他进来了。
That was intense.
那很激烈。
--the last three days discussing the responsibilities and opportunities that we had--
——过去三天讨论了我们的责任和机会——
Because that's the point where I'm sitting there with a flag between my legs I'm going rip in half and yell at the man, the President of the United States.
因为那是我坐在那里，两腿之间夹着一面旗帜的时刻，我要把它撕成两半，并对这个人，美国总统大喊大叫。
Oh my god, it makes me want to pass out.
天哪，这让我想昏过去。
All right.
好的。
Sorry.
对不起。
--sustaining political reform.
——坚持政治体制改革。
I would cite five key accomplishments at the Munich Economic Summit.
我想列举慕尼黑经济峰会上的五项主要成就。
We've succeeded in achieving a solid consensus on strengthening--
我们成功地就加强——
Now, he's barely spoken for a half minute.
现在，他几乎没有说话半分钟。
He's still in his opening statement.
他还在做开场陈词。
--United States, Japan, [YELLING IN THE BACKGROUND]
——美国、日本，[在后台大喊大叫]
Germany, and Italy have-- Ira Glass Now the camera's panning back.
德国和意大利——Ira Glass 现在镜头向后摇动。
Repent.
悔改。
We mourn your decisions here.
我们在这里对你的决定表示哀悼。
You're not giving us your voice.
你没有给我们你的声音。
Oh my god, look at that kid.
天哪，看看那个孩子。
Wow, you can't even hear the great line, "The homeless in the trees are mourning your decisions here."
哇，你甚至听不到那句伟大的台词：“树上的无家可归者正在哀悼你在这里的决定。”
You can't hear it all.
你听不到全部。
You can't hear it at all.
你根本听不到。
All you hear is the president.
你听到的都是总统。
Oh, I didn't even notice that.
哦，我什至没有注意到这一点。
I didn't even know that.
我什至不知道这一点。
What if nobody heard it?
如果没有人听到怎么办？
I guess not.
我想不是。
This is the tape.
这是磁带。
This is the tape.
这是磁带。
I don't think anybody heard it.
我想没有人听到过。
Wow.
哇。
That's intense.
太激烈了。
President George H.w.
美国总统乔治·H.W.
Bush I'm trying to give--
布什，我试图给予——
I'm trying to give you my voice right now.
我现在正试图向你发出我的声音。
And if you'd be quiet, maybe you could hear it.
如果你安静点，也许你能听到。
But you're not giving it to us [INAUDIBLE].
但你没有把它给我们[听不清]。
Well, would you please sit down?
好吧，请坐好吗？
We're in the middle of a press conference here.
我们正在这里举行新闻发布会。
Well, we can tell that.
嗯，我们可以这么说。
Charles Monroe-kane Nice.
查尔斯·门罗·凯恩 尼斯。
Good for him.
对他有好处。
He got me on that one.
他让我上了那个。
Now, what's your question?
现在，你的问题是什么？
Charles Monroe-kane Now, this I remember.
查尔斯·门罗-凯恩 现在，我记住了这一点。
Because I just assumed I was going to be arrested.
因为我只是假设我会被逮捕。
I knew I wasn't going to be shot.
我知道我不会被枪杀。
That hadn't happened yet, so that's cool.
那还没有发生，所以很酷。
And I'm like, "This is it." And what happened next was amazing because nothing happened next.
我想，“就是这样。”接下来发生的事情令人惊奇，因为接下来什么也没发生。
I didn't get arrested.
我没有被捕。
He had this thing where he had his hands on the podium, and he kind of moved his hands.
他的手放在讲台上，他的手有点移动。
I don't know what signals they have, or whatever, but they didn't arrest me.
我不知道他们有什么信号，或者其他什么，但他们没有逮捕我。
And then the worst possible thing in the world happened to me.
然后世界上最糟糕的事情发生在我身上。
He ain't going to arrest me, and he's about to engage me.
他不会逮捕我，但他却要与我交战。
And I was like, "Oh, my god.
我当时想，“哦，天啊。
The President of the United States is speaking to me right now, and he basically started asking me questions.
美国总统现在正在跟我说话，他基本上开始问我问题。
And I was like, "Holy mackerel." I really almost passed out.
我当时想，“神圣的鲭鱼。”我真的差点昏过去了。
Who are you, and who are you accredited to?
你是谁？你受谁认可？
My name is Charles Kane.
我的名字是查尔斯·凯恩。
President George H.w.
美国总统乔治·H.W.
Bush Yeah.
布什 是的。
I'm from the United States.
我来自美国。
President George H.w.
美国总统乔治·H.W.
Bush Yeah.
布什 是的。
I work with a magazine in the Netherlands.
我在荷兰的一家杂志社工作。
It's a youth magazine.
这是一本青年杂志。
And we want to know why we're not taken seriously.
我们想知道为什么我们不被认真对待。
We're an environmental group.
我们是一个环保团体。
Well, maybe you're rude.
好吧，也许你很粗鲁。
People don't take rude people seriously.
人们不会认真对待粗鲁的人。
And if you interrupt a press conference like this, I'm sure that people would say that's why we don't take you seriously.
如果你像这样打断新闻发布会，我相信人们会说这就是为什么我们不认真对待你。
[INAUDIBLE] President George H.w.
[听不清] 乔治·H.w. 总统
Bush Sit down, and I will take a question from you when we get in the question and answer period.
布什请坐下，当我们进入问答环节时，我将回答你的问题。
Right now, I would like to continue my statement with your permission.
现在，在您的允许下，我想继续我的发言。
Now, where were we?
现在，我们在哪里？
We were talking about economic recovery.
我们正在谈论经济复苏。
[CHUCKLES]
[笑声]
So the President gives this little nervous laugh and sort of looks down, and then he goes on with his regular statement.
因此，总统紧张地笑了笑，看上去有点低头，然后他继续他的例行声明。
Oh my god.
天哪。
Ira Glass And this continues for a few minutes.
Ira Glass 这持续了几分钟。
So I'm sitting down, That's all.
所以我坐下来，就这样。
I don't remember.
我不记得了。
So you're sitting down.
所以你坐下了。
Charles Monroe-kane Why didn't I keep yelling?
查尔斯·门罗-凯恩：我为什么不继续大喊大叫？
What a wimp.
真是个懦夫。
I guess I was probably-- but he gave me a cue there.
我想我可能是——但他在那里给了我一个暗示。
Well, what do you mean why-- What he was saying was perfectly reasonable.
嗯，你的意思是为什么——他说的是完全有道理的。
"I'll get to you during the question-- look, we're going to talk, and it's going to be during the question and answer period.
“我会在提问期间联系你——听着，我们要谈谈，而且会在问答期间进行。
I'm just reading my opening statement." How are you going to argue with that?
我正在读我的开场陈词。”你打算如何反驳这一点？
Yeah, but it's a protest.
是的，但这是抗议。
I was supposed to be in there yelling at him.
我应该在那里对他大喊大叫。
I was supposed to get arrested.
我本来应该被逮捕的。
I thought I was supposed to get arrested.
我以为我应该被逮捕。
Oh my god, I so didn't want to be there after I didn't get arrested.
天啊，在我没有被捕之后我根本不想去那里。
I was so embarrassed.
我很尴尬。
It was horrible.
太可怕了。
Because from your point of view, the whole point was to get arrested.
因为从你的角度来看，重点就是被捕。
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass So now at this point, you've failed.
Ira Glass：那么现在，你已经失败了。
Well, also, I not only failed at that point for not getting arrested, I also know I'm going to fail because he's going to ask a question to me later.
好吧，我当时不仅因为没有被捕而失败，而且我也知道我会失败，因为他稍后会问我一个问题。
Because I don't have anything to say.
因为我没什么可说的。
I mean, you've got to remember that.
我的意思是，你必须记住这一点。
I don't have anything to say.
我没什么可说的。
I don't have a question.
我没有问题。
What do you mean, I have a question?
你什么意思，我有一个问题？
Of course, I don't have a question.
当然，我没有问题。
So finally it comes to you.
所以最后它来了。
You're the third question.
你这是第三个问题。
And basically, he answers two questions, and then he says this.
基本上，他回答了两个问题，然后他说这个。
And that's what we're talking about.
这就是我们正在谈论的。
Now, let's go to this gentleman who's so agitated here.
现在，让我们去看看这位如此激动的先生。
I just want to know why there's no new nuclear power plants in the United States being built, but you're proposing for Siemens to build them in Eastern Europe?
我只是想知道为什么美国不建新的核电站，而你却建议西门子在东欧建核电站？
Why are they so unsafe in our country and so safe in their country?
为什么他们在我们的国家如此不安全，而在他们的国家却如此安全？
Why it is only at the G7-- President George H.w.
为什么只有在七国集团会议上——乔治·H·w·布什总统
Bush You've asked your question, sir.
布什：您已经问了问题，先生。
Now let me try to answer it for you.
现在让我尝试为您解答。
I favor nuclear power.
我赞成核电。
I believe that it can be safely used.
我相信它可以安全使用。
I believe that it is environmentally sound.
我相信它是环保的。
The debate here has been that we ought to try to help those areas that have nuclear facilities that might not have the latest technology and might not meet the same standards of safety that we use in our country.
这里的争论是，我们应该尽力帮助那些拥有核设施的地区，这些设施可能没有最新技术，也可能不符合我们国家使用的相同安全标准。
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
Now, we'll go here.
现在，我们就去这里吧。
Do you respect the flag?
你尊重国旗吗？
Ira Glass Then you said, "Do you respect the flag?"
Ira Glass 然后你说：“你尊重国旗吗？”
You had your question.
你有你的问题。
Charles Monroe-kane Oh, now the media is yelling at me.
查尔斯·门罗-凯恩 哦，现在媒体在对我大喊大叫。
[CROWD YELLING] Charles Monroe-kane At Press Conference It's all rhetoric.
[人群大喊]查尔斯·门罗-凯恩在新闻发布会上这全是言辞。
Come on, you guys, think about it.
来来来，大家想一想。
And then you say, "It's all rhetoric."
然后你说：“这都是花言巧语。”
Is the world going to be a better place in a year?
一年后世界会变得更好吗？
This is coming out of your time, gang, and we've got 20 minutes here.
这已经超出你们的时间了，大家，我们有 20 分钟的时间。
Come on.
来吧。
This [UNINTELLIGIBLE] acting up at all.
这[无法理解]根本就没有表现出来。
Mr. President-- Charles Monroe-kane At Press Conference You guys are all part of this system too.
总统先生——查尔斯·门罗·凯恩在新闻发布会上 你们也是这个体系的一部分。
Thanks a lot.
非常感谢。
Go ahead.
继续吧。
Sam Donaldson Much has been said here by you and others about the--
萨姆·唐纳森（Sam Donaldson）你和其他人在这里已经说了很多关于——
We've given up.
我们已经放弃了。
Ira Glass And then there's the voice of Sam Donaldson.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 然后是萨姆·唐纳森 (Sam Donaldson) 的声音。
And then now, it's back to normal.
然后现在，一切又恢复正常了。
God, I can't believe I did that.
天啊，我简直不敢相信我竟然这么做了。
That's embarrassing.
那就尴尬了。
It's so hot in here.
这里太热了。
I'm totally embarrassed by that.
我对此感到非常尴尬。
Oh my god.
天哪。
I mean, I'm not embarrassed about yelling at the President of the United States.
我的意思是，我对对美国总统大喊大叫并不感到尴尬。
I do not sit here right now and say, "Wow, I wish I wouldn't have done it." No way.
我现在不会坐在这里说：“哇，我希望我没有这么做。”没办法。
I sit here right now and say, "I wish I would have done it down better."
我现在坐在这里说：“我希望我能做得更好。”
And what would doing a better job have meant?
做得更好意味着什么？
What do you wish that you would have said?
你希望你说什么？
I wish I would have said something that kind of hung in the air for a moment, that made everybody silent, that would keep him awake for one moment of his life, that just would make him think, "Wow, I do have some responsibility, and I have squandered that responsibility."
我希望我能说一些悬而未决的话，让每个人都沉默，让他一生中保持清醒的一刻，只会让他想，“哇，我确实有一些责任，但我已经浪费了这个责任。”
I don't know.
我不知道。
Haven't you been touched by one statement in your life that's affected you greatly?
你有没有被生活中对你影响很大的一句话所感动？
I have.
我有。
Yes, but it's-- Charles Monroe-kane So I'm giving him credit.
是的，但他是——查尔斯·门罗·凯恩（Charles Monroe-kane），所以我相信他。
Now, in retrospect, it's extremely unlikely.
现在回想起来，这种可能性极小。
It's probably a million to one, but you got to try.
这可能是一百万比一，但你必须尝试一下。
You got to try
你必须尝试
I don't know.
我不知道。
When I see the president answering questions at a news conference, I feel like what he's doing is-- he doesn't want to say anything that's going to get him in trouble.
当我看到总统在新闻发布会上回答问题时，我觉得他正在做的是——他不想说任何会给他带来麻烦的事情。
He doesn't want to say anything that's going to make his life more complicated and difficult.
他不想说任何会让他的生活变得更加复杂和困难的话。
And it's not an environment conducive to learning.
而且这不是一个有利于学习的环境。
What I should have said is-- when I think about it at 3 o'clock in the morning, it's not the-- it's in general what I should have said.
我应该说的是——当我在凌晨三点思考这件事时，这不是——而是一般来说我应该说的。
I should have said something that would affect the man's life.
我应该说一些会影响他一生的事情。
And what's depressing for me that really makes me sad is that I still haven't come up with what I should have said.
对我来说，真正让我感到沮丧的是，我仍然没有想出我应该说的话。
And that really makes me sad.
这真的让我很难过。
But of course, you didn't come up with what you should have said because nothing could have been said--
但当然，你没有想出你应该说的话，因为什么也不能说——
I won't accept that-- Ira Glass In that setting that was going to make the President of the United States rethink anything in particular.
我不会接受这一点——艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 在那种情况下，美国总统将重新考虑任何特别的事情。
I won't accept that.
我不会接受这一点。
I should have found something that could have changed the world at that moment.
我应该在那一刻找到一些可以改变世界的东西。
I had my opportunity at that moment.
那一刻我得到了机会。
I think I should have gone for it.
我想我应该去争取的。
Now, you're in your thirties now.
现在，你已经三十多岁了。
Have you ever had this experience where somebody just yelled something at you, some punk kid, whatever, yelled at you?
你是否有过这样的经历：有人对你大喊大叫，某个朋克小子，不管怎样，对你大喊大叫？
I did.
我做到了。
I was at an introduction.
我当时正在参加一场介绍会。
I was introducing somebody who was about to give a speech.
我正在介绍一位即将发表演讲的人。
They heckled me.
他们质问我。
It was a really interesting experience because immediately what came back was me.
这是一次非常有趣的经历，因为立刻回来的就是我。
Did it keep you up at night afterwards?
之后它让你彻夜难眠吗？
Did it give you something to think about?
它有给你一些思考吗？
That's an unfair-- of course, no, it didn't give me anything to think about.
这是不公平的——当然，不，它没有给我任何思考的机会。
No, it didn't keep me up at night at all.
不，它根本没有让我彻夜难眠。
It didn't-- yeah, I get your-- that's a good question.
它没有——是的，我明白你的——这是一个很好的问题。
No, it didn't keep me up at all.
不，它根本没有让我坚持下去。
And so do you think, thinking about George Bush and the possibility that he would be kept up at night a moment like this--
你是否也这么认为，想想乔治·布什以及他在这样的时刻彻夜难眠的可能性——
No. No, OK, I understand where you're going.
不，不，好吧，我明白你要去哪里。
I respect where you're going.
我尊重你要去的地方。
No, of course not.
不，当然不是。
But I know this all along.
但我一直都知道这一点。
Yeah, I know this all along.
是的，我一直都知道这一点。
It's only what you wish would have happened.
这只是你希望发生的事情。
I hope-- I don't know.
我希望——我不知道。
Maybe I'll read his memoirs, and he'll say, "You know--"
也许我会读他的回忆录，他会说，“你知道——”
OK, forget it.
好吧，算了。
I won't even go there.
我什至不会去那里。
I tried, man.
我试过了，伙计。
It was a tough day, man.
这是艰难的一天，伙计。
It was a tough day.
这是艰难的一天。
I tried really.
我真的尝试过。
I did my best.
我尽力了。
My best wasn't very good at the time, but I tried my best.
当时我的状态不是很好，但我已经尽力了。
Charles Monroe-Kane.
查尔斯·门罗-凯恩。
He's a producer for the public radio program To The Best of Our Knowledge.
他是公共广播节目“据我们所知”的制作人。
Coming up, David Sedaris and When You Wish Upon A Pie.
即将推出，大卫·塞达里斯和当你许愿吃馅饼时。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, What I Should've Said.
今天的节目是《我应该说的话》。
Stories where people go back in time, rethink the moments that have vexed them.
人们回到过去的故事，重新思考那些让他们烦恼的时刻。
We have arrived at Act Three of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, A Can Of Worms.
第三幕，一罐蠕虫。
David Sedaris told this next story before a live audience.
大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 在现场观众面前讲述了下一个故事。
Hugh wanted hamburgers.
休想要汉堡包。
So he, his friend Anne, and I went to a place called The Apple Pan.
于是他、他的朋友安妮和我去了一个叫“苹果锅”的地方。
This was in Los Angeles.
这是在洛杉矶。
I thought The Apple Pan would be a restaurant, but it was more like a diner.
我以为 The Apple Pan 会是一家餐厅，但它更像是一家小餐馆。
No tables, just stools arranged along a u-shaped counter.
没有桌子，只有沿着 U 形柜台排列的凳子。
We ordered our hamburgers from a man in a paper hat.
我们从一个戴着纸帽子的男人那里点了汉堡。
And while waiting for them to arrive, Anne pulled out some pictures of her bull terrier.
在等待他们到来的同时，安妮拿出了一些她的斗牛梗的照片。
She's a professional photographer, and so they were portraits rather than snapshots.
她是一名专业摄影师，所以这些照片是肖像而不是快照。
Here was the dog peeking out from behind a curtain.
这是那只狗从窗帘后面偷看。
Here was the dog sitting human style in an easy chair, a paw resting on the paunch of his stomach.
这只狗像人类一样坐在安乐椅上，一只爪子放在肚子上。
When she's not taking pictures of her dog, Anne flies around the country on assignment from various magazines.
当安妮不给她的狗拍照时，她会根据各种杂志的任务飞到全国各地。
A day earlier, she'd returned from Boston where she photographed the fire commissioner, whose last name is Bastardo.
一天前，她从波士顿回来，在那里拍摄了消防专员的照片，消防专员姓巴斯塔多。
"That's bastard with an O on the end," she said.
“那是个末尾带有 O 的混蛋，”她说。
"Don't you think that's funny?" Hugh told her about some neighbors in Normandy whose last name translates to hot ass.
“你不觉得这很有趣吗？”休告诉她诺曼底的一些邻居的姓氏翻译过来就是“辣屁股”。
But unless you speak French, it's hard to get the joke.
但除非你会说法语，否则很难理解这个笑话。
"Is that hyphenated," Anne asked.
“这是连字符吗？”安妮问。
"I mean, did Miss Hot marry Mr. Ass, or is it all one word?"
“我的意思是，辣小姐嫁给了屁股先生，还是只是一个字？”
I thought the conversation would rest here for a while, and so I prepared myself to contribute, wary of how easy it is to fall into a game of one-upsmanship.
我以为谈话就到此为止了，所以我做好了贡献的准备，同时警惕自己很容易陷入一场胜者为王的游戏。
If you knew a Candy Dick, the other person is bound to have known a Harry Dick or a Dick Eater.
如果你认识糖果迪克，那么另一个人一定也认识哈利迪克或食迪克。
I'd recently learned of the race car driver Dick Trickle.
我最近了解到赛车手迪克·特里克尔（Dick Trickle）。
But for the time being, we were operating on a higher plane.
但目前，我们是在更高的层面上运作。
Anne's last name is Fishbein, and she hates it.
安妮的姓氏是菲什拜因，她讨厌这个名字。
She and Hugh met in college, and when our hamburgers arrived, they reminisced about some of the people they had gone to school with.
她和休在大学里认识，当我们的汉堡到达时，他们回忆起了一些和他们一起上学的人。
"What was that guy's name?
“那个人叫什么名字？
I think he was in the art department.
我认为他在艺术系。
Mike maybe, or Mark?
也许是迈克，或者是马克？
He used to go out with Karen, I think her name was.
他曾经和凯伦出去，我想她的名字是。
Or Kimberly.
或者金伯利。
You know who I mean?" Talk like this can go on for a while.
你知道我说的是谁吗？”这样的谈话还可以持续一段时间。
And while you do have to accept it, you don't have to actually pay attention.
虽然你必须接受它，但你不必真正关注。
I stared straight ahead, watching a broken-nosed cook top a hamburger with cheese.
我直视前方，看着一个鼻子受伤的厨师在汉堡上撒上奶酪。
And then I turned slightly to my left and began listening to the two men seated on the other side of me.
然后我稍微向左转，开始听坐在我另一边的两个人说话。
The man beside me wore a t-shirt endorsing the state of Florida.
我旁边的那个人穿着一件印有佛罗里达州的 T 恤。
And as if the weather were completely different on the other side of the ketchup bottle, the man beside him wore a thick wool sweater and heavy corduroy pants.
而仿佛番茄酱瓶另一边的天气完全不同，他身边的男人穿着厚厚的羊毛衫和厚重的灯芯绒裤子。
A coat rested in his lap, and before him on the counter sat a newspaper and an empty cup of coffee.
一件外套放在他的腿上，他面前的柜台上放着一张报纸和一杯空咖啡。
"Did you read about those worms," he asked?
“你读过有关这些蠕虫的文章吗？”他问道？
He was referring to the can of nematodes, tiny worms recently discovered on the Texas plains.
他指的是线虫，这是最近在德克萨斯平原发现的微小蠕虫。
They'd been sent up with the doomed space shuttle and had somehow managed to survive the explosion, the cause of which was still a mystery.
他们与注定失败的航天飞机一起被送上太空，并以某种方式设法在爆炸中幸存下来，爆炸的原因仍然是个谜。
The man in the sweater massaged his chin and stared into space.
穿毛衣的男人按摩着下巴，凝视着太空。
"I've been thinking we could solve this problem in no time," he said, "if only, if only we could get the damn things to talk." It sounded crazy, but I remember thinking the exact same thing about the Akita in the O.J.
“我一直在想，我们很快就能解决这个问题，”他说，“要是，要是我们能把这些该死的事情谈谈就好了。”这听起来很疯狂，但我记得《O.J.》中的秋田犬也有同样的想法。
Simpson case.
辛普森案。
"Put it on the stand.
“把它放在架子上。
Let's hear what it's got to say." It was one of those ideas that just for a split second seemed entirely logical, the one solution that nobody had thought of.
让我们听听它怎么说。”这是其中一个想法，仅仅一瞬间就显得完全合乎逻辑，是没有人想到的唯一解决方案。
The man in the t-shirt considered the possibility.
穿T恤的男人考虑了这个可能性。
"Well," he said, "even if the worms could talk, it wouldn't do much good.
“好吧，”他说，“即使蠕虫会说话，也没有多大用处。
They was in that can, remember?"
它们就在那个罐子里，记得吗？”
The men stood to pay their bills.
男人们站起来付账。
And before they reached the door, their stools were taken by two people who did not know one another.
而还没到门口，凳子就被两个素不相识的人抢走了。
One was a man dressed in a fine suit, and the other, a young woman who sat down and immediately started reading what looked to be a script.
一个是穿着西装的男人，另一个是年轻的女人，她坐下来，立即开始阅读看起来像是剧本的东西。
Over on my right, Hugh had decided that rather than Karen or Kimberly, the classmate had been named Katherine.
在我的右边，休决定把同学的名字命名为凯瑟琳，而不是凯伦或金伯利。
While I'd been listening to my neighbors, he had ordered me a piece of pie.
当我听邻居说话时，他给我点了一块馅饼。
And as I picked up my fork, Anne told me that I was supposed to eat it backwards, starting with the outer crust and working my way inward.
当我拿起叉子时，安妮告诉我，我应该倒着吃，从外皮开始，然后向内吃。
"Your last bite should be the point, and you're supposed to make a wish on it," she said.
“你的最后一口应该是重点，你应该对它许愿，”她说。
"Hasn't anyone ever told you that?"
“没有人告诉过你吗？”
"Come again?" Anne looked at me the way you might at someone who regularly tosses money into the fire.
“再来一次？”安妮看着我，就像看着一个经常往火里扔钱的人一样。
The senselessness, the waste.
毫无意义，浪费。
"Well, better late than never," she said.
“好吧，迟到总比不到好，”她说。
And she repositioned my plate.
她重新定位了我的盘子。
As she and Hugh resumed their conversation, I thought of all the pie I had eaten during the course of my life, and I wondered how different things might be if only I had wished upon the points.
当她和休继续谈话时，我想起了我一生中吃过的所有馅饼，我想知道如果我对这些点有希望的话，事情会有多么不同。
To begin with, I would not be seated at The Apple Pan.
首先，我不会坐在 The Apple Pan 餐厅。
That much was certain.
这是肯定的。
Had I gotten my wish at the age of eight, I would still be rounding up mummies in Egypt, luring them from their tombs and trapping them in heavy iron cages.
如果我在八岁时实现了我的愿望，我仍然会在埃及围捕木乃伊，将它们从坟墓中引诱出来，然后将它们困在沉重的铁笼子里。
All subsequent wishes would have been based upon the life I had already established.
所有随后的愿望都将基于我已经建立的生活。
A new set of boots.
一套新靴子。
A finer whip.
更细的鞭子。
Greater command of the mummy language.
更好地掌握木乃伊语言。
That's the problem with wishes.
这就是愿望的问题。
They ensnare you.
他们诱捕你。
In fairy tales, they're nothing but trouble, magnifying the greed and vanity of the person for whom they are granted.
在童话故事中，它们只不过是麻烦，放大了被授予它们的人的贪婪和虚荣心。
One's best bet, and the moral to all those stories, is to be unselfish and make your wish for the benefit of others, trusting that their happiness will make you happy as well.
一个人最好的选择，也是所有这些故事的寓意，就是要无私，为他人的利益许愿，相信他们的幸福也会让你幸福。
That'll be the day.
那一天就会到来。
Since we'd entered, The Apple Pan had grown progressively busier.
自从我们进去之后，The Apple Pan 就变得越来越忙碌。
All the seats were now taken.
现在所有的座位都被占了。
And people leaned against the wall, their eyes moving from stool to stool, determining which customers should pay up and get out.
人们靠在墙上，眼睛在凳子上移动，决定哪些顾客应该付款并离开。
Looking around, I saw that we were the likeliest candidates.
环顾四周，我发现我们是最有可能的候选人。
The man in the hat had removed our hamburger wrappers, and all that remained was a single plate supporting the tip of my pie.
戴帽子的人已经把我们的汉堡包装纸撕掉了，剩下的只是一个支撑我的馅饼尖的盘子。
I wished that the people against the wall would stop staring at us, and then quickly, but not quick enough, I tried to take it back.
我希望靠墙的人不要再盯着我们看，然后很快，但不够快，我试图收回它。
"I guess we should get going," Hugh said, and he and Anne pulled out their wallets.
“我想我们该走了。”休说，然后他和安妮掏出了钱包。
There was a little struggle over who would pay.
关于谁来付钱的问题存在一些争议。
"It's my treat." "No, it's mine." But I stayed out of it, thinking instead of what might have been had I not wasted my wish.
“这是我请客。” “不，是我的。”但我置身事外，思考的是如果我没有浪费我的愿望的话可能会发生什么。
A laboratory filled with sensitive equipment.
一个充满敏感设备的实验室。
Men in white coats trembling with hope and wonder as they leaned forward, catching the sound of one small voice.
穿着白大褂的男人们向前倾身，听到了一个细小的声音，他们因希望和惊奇而颤抖。
"Come to think of it," the worm says, "I do remember seeing something suspicious."
“想想看，”蠕虫说，“我确实记得看到过一些可疑的东西。”
David Sedaris.
大卫·塞达里斯。
This story appears in his most recent book, Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim.
这个故事出现在他的最新著作《用灯芯绒和牛仔布装扮你的家人》中。
[MUSIC - "THE GLOW WORM" BY THE MILLS BROTHERS]
[音乐 - 米尔斯兄弟的“萤火虫”]
Act Four, Life Sentence.
第四幕，无期徒刑。
In 1989, a politician named Mike Miller, president of the Maryland State Senate, the kind of political veteran who does not slip up, made a comment to a reporter-- just a few sentences off the cuff-- that many political observers say put the kibosh on his chances to become governor.
1989 年，一位名叫迈克·米勒 (Mike Miller) 的政客，马里兰州参议院议长，是一位从不犯错的政治老手，向记者发表了一句话——只是即兴的几句话——许多政治观察家认为，这断送了他成为州长的机会。
The day this happened actually happened to be the day of a big political coming-out party for Miller, his first statewide fundraiser, to be held over in Baltimore.
这件事发生的那天恰好是米勒在巴尔的摩举行的一场大型政治亮相派对的日子，这是他的第一次全州范围内的筹款活动。
Miller comes from a district near DC.
米勒来自华盛顿特区附近的一个地区。
He'd sold over 2,000 tickets.
他已经卖出了 2,000 多张门票。
Both US senators would be there, and the governor, and the mayor of Baltimore.
美国参议员、巴尔的摩州长和市长都会出席。
But also, the same day, one of his law partners died at a desk in their law offices.
但同一天，他的一位律师合伙人死在他们律师事务所的办公桌前。
So a lot was on his mind.
所以他心里有很多想法。
And with all this happening, he gets a call from a TV reporter who was doing a story about a local gun control issue.
当这一切发生时，他接到了一位电视记者的电话，该记者正在报道当地的枪支管制问题。
She came to my office, and I was sitting there very despondent about the law partner who had been found dead sitting just a few hours before in his chair in his office.
她来到我的办公室，我坐在那里，对几个小时前被发现死在办公室椅子上的律师合伙人感到非常沮丧。
And she comes in and starts stalking to me-- no mic check or no white-on-white check or anything like that.
她进来并开始跟踪我——没有麦克风检查或白底检查或类似的东西。
She said to me, "Why are you going to Baltimore?" In other words, you're not from this area in Baltimore, you're from Washington.
她对我说：“你为什么要去巴尔的摩？”换句话说，你不是来自巴尔的摩这个地区，而是来自华盛顿。
Why are you going to Baltimore?
你为什么要去巴尔的摩？
And I used some profanity-laced language about the city, defaming the city, which I love.
我对这座城市使用了一些带有脏话的语言，诽谤这座我喜欢的城市。
But I was just using it to describe the need of the city in terms of jobs, in terms of economic development, in terms of education.
但我只是用它来描述这个城市在就业、经济发展、教育方面的需求。
But I said it in barnyard phraseology that-- which is sort of my standard nomenclature when I'm not in public life.
但我用的是谷仓用语——这是我不在公共生活中时的标准术语。
I mean, I grew up in the country, you know?
我是说，我在乡下长大，你知道吗？
I don't mean to embarrass you for this thing.
我并不想因为这件事让你难堪。
It happened 15 years ago.
事情发生在15年前。
But let me just read the exact quote so people listening on the radio will know what we're talking about.
但让我读一下确切的引文，这样听广播的人就会知道我们在说什么。
OK.
好的。
Ira Glass You were asked why were you holding a fundraiser in Baltimore, and you said, "It helps educate my constituents as to why Baltimore needs the economic help.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 有人问你为什么要在巴尔的摩举办筹款活动，你说：“这有助于教育我的选民，让他们了解为什么巴尔的摩需要经济帮助。
I mean, Baltimore is a goddamn ghetto.
我的意思是，巴尔的摩是一个该死的贫民窟。
It's worse than inner-city Washington, DC.
这比华盛顿特区的市中心还要糟糕。
It is [BLEEP]." They beeped out the words like we're doing.
这是[BLEEP]。”他们像我们一样发出嘟嘟的声音。
And then you say, on tape, apparently, "I hope you're not going to play this on tape." And you laughed, and then you said, "I mean, it's a war zone.
然后你在磁带上显然说：“我希望你不要在磁带上播放这个。”你笑了，然后说：“我的意思是，这是一个战区。
I mean, it's crack.
我的意思是，它是裂纹。
I mean, it's dime bags of PCP.
我的意思是，这是一袋五毛钱的五氯苯酚。
1/4 of every kid is not in school each day.
每个孩子中有 1/4 每天不上学。
50% of the kids that start out in school don't graduate.
50% 开始上学的孩子没有毕业。
So looking at things from a statewide perspective, we really have to do things to help."
因此，从全州范围的角度来看，我们确实必须采取行动来提供帮助。”
Right.
正确的。
That's what I said.
我就是这么说的。
Ira Glass But you didn't know they were actually rolling film?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：但是你不知道他们实际上是在滚动胶片吗？
No, absolutely not.
不，绝对不是。
But I didn't know that I had said anything wrong.
但我并不知道我说错了什么。
I mean, I really didn't realize that I'd said anything wrong.
我的意思是，我真的没有意识到我说错了什么。
I had no idea I'd said anything wrong.
我不知道我说错了什么。
Nobody told me I was on television at the time.
没有人告诉我当时我在电视上。
And so later on, she does her interview, and everything is fine.
后来，她接受了采访，一切都很好。
Doesn't mention anything, we don't follow up with it or anything like that.
没有提及任何事情，我们不会跟进或类似的事情。
And then I get a call later on.
然后我稍后接到电话。
Apparently, she'd got the tape, and she'd run to the Mayor of Baltimore, "Let me show you this." And she put it on the Baltimore stations, and then put it on the Washington stations.
显然，她拿到了录像带，然后跑向巴尔的摩市长，“让我给你看这个。”她把它放在巴尔的摩车站，然后放在华盛顿车站。
And they would make the announcement, "Be careful, have your children leave the room before you see this."
他们会宣布：“小心，在你看到这个之前让你的孩子离开房间。”
Wow.
哇。
Mike Miller It was very traumatic.
迈克·米勒（Mike Miller）这是非常痛苦的。
Because like I say, the people showed up at the fundraiser, and the mayor of Baltimore was there and the governor.
因为就像我说的，人们出现在筹款活动上，巴尔的摩市长和州长也在场。
And they couldn't believe that I'd said what I said.
他们不敢相信我说的话。
So when something like this happens, is this just like a bomb going off?
那么当这样的事情发生的时候，是不是就跟炸弹爆炸一样呢？
Does everything turn over in a minute?
一切会在一分钟内翻转吗？
Yes, very much so.
是的，非常如此。
I couldn't sleep.
我无法入睡。
I left the hotel at 4 o'clock in the morning.
我凌晨4点离开酒店。
I left my wife at the hotel.
我把妻子留在旅馆里。
I couldn't sleep.
我无法入睡。
I just had to get out of the city.
我只得离开这座城市。
I said, "Look, I'm leaving." And the doorman, he said, "Senator?" He says, "I don't understand this." He says, "You've always been great to Baltimore.
我说：“你看，我要走了。”门卫说：“参议员？”他说：“我不明白这一点。”他说：“你对巴尔的摩一直很好。
I don't understand this." He says, "We'll figure a way out of this." He says, "You and I will figure a way out of this." This is the doorman at the hotel.
我不明白这一点。”他说：“我们会想办法解决这个问题。”他说：“你和我会想出办法解决这个问题。”这是酒店的门童。
Wow.
哇。
Mike Miller And I said, "I appreciate it.
迈克·米勒 我说：“我很感激。
Thank you very much." And anyway--
非常感谢。”无论如何——
Man, I've got to say, that's a bad number when--
伙计，我不得不说，这是一个糟糕的数字——
When the doorman of the hotel is consoling you.
当酒店的门卫在安慰你的时候。
The doorman of the hotel.
酒店的门卫。
He said, "Look, Senator, I'll help you.
他说：“听着，参议员，我会帮助你。
We'll figure a way--"
我们会想办法——”
Yes.
是的。
So the next night, I'm on all the TV channels, 2, 11, 13.
所以第二天晚上，我出现在所有电视频道上：2、11、13。
And anyway--
无论如何——
You mean going back and giving your side of it?
你的意思是回去并贡献自己的力量吗？
I went back in the city.
我回到城里。
I said, "Look, let me just explain this as best I can." And I explained it sort of the way I did to you.
我说：“听着，让我尽我所能解释一下。”我按照我对你所做的方式解释了这一点。
And the doorman goes-- I come back to the doorman because my wife had forgot her hat-- and he goes, "Senator, Senator," he said, "I knew you could do it, I knew you could do it." He said, "That country boy stuff gets them every time."
门卫走了——我回到门卫那里，因为我妻子忘了戴帽子——他走了，“参议员，参议员，”他说，“我知道你能做到，我知道你能做到。”他说：“乡村男孩的东西每次都会得到它们。”
[LAUGHING] So anyway, it was very traumatic for me.
[笑]所以无论如何，这对我来说是非常痛苦的。
And like I say, a lot of people took offense that I used the word ghetto for example.
就像我说的，很多人因为我使用“贫民窟”这个词而感到生气。
And at the time, I didn't realize the connotation.
而当时的我并没有意识到其中的内涵。
Yeah.
是的。
Now, this happened on a night of an exploratory fundraiser for statewide office.
现在，这发生在全州办公室试探性筹款活动的当晚。
What effect did this have on your career when you look back?
当您回顾过去时，这对您的职业生涯产生了什么影响？
If I were going to run for statewide office, it would certainly have set me back four to eight years.
如果我要竞选全州公职，那肯定会让我倒退四到八年。
My adviser said, "If you had just taken that theme and expanded it and say what you really meant, you could have turned it into a positive." And I said, "Look, I don't really feel like doing that much explaining, and I don't want my mother to have to hear this statement again."
我的导师说：“如果你能接受这个主题并扩展它并说出你真正的意思，你就可以把它变成积极的一面。”我说：“听着，我真的不想做那么多解释，我不想让我妈妈再次听到这样的说法。”
Because wherever I campaign, it's going to be on TV.
因为无论我在哪里竞选，都会出现在电视上。
It's going to be on sound bites and TV ads and wherever, and I really don't want to see that again on television or in print.
它会出现在原声片段和电视广告以及任何地方，我真的不想再在电视或印刷品上看到这种情况。
This must have been one of those moments you ended up thinking about a lot afterwards, right?
这一定是您事后思考很多的时刻之一，对吧？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I mean, I just-- Ira Glass And what would you think?
我的意思是，我只是—— Ira Glass 你觉得怎么样？
When you replay it in your head, what would you think about it?
当你在脑海中回放这件事时，你会怎么想？
Well, as a politician, they give you these things, how you're supposed to deal with reporters and the press.
好吧，作为一名政治家，他们给你这些东西，你应该如何与记者和媒体打交道。
And what you're supposed to say, and you're always on record.
你应该说的话，你总是记录在案。
But I've never been able to follow that guideline for myself.
但我自己却始终无法遵循这一指导方针。
I just-- People appreciate your candidness, but at the same time, it gets you in a lot of trouble.
我只是——人们欣赏你的坦诚，但同时，这也给你带来了很多麻烦。
Did you find that you were more careful in what you were saying afterwards?
你有没有发现，之后自己说话更加小心了？
No. But I did find that there were certain reporters I wouldn't talk to anymore.
不。但我确实发现有些记者我不会再跟他们说话了。
[LAUGHING] Ira Glass And I saw that a couple years ago, in 2001-- that's 12 years after this happened-- the Baltimore papers did a big profile of you, a very flattering profile summarizing your legislative career.
[笑] Ira Glass 几年前，也就是 2001 年，也就是这件事发生 12 年后，我看到巴尔的摩的报纸对您做了很大的介绍，非常讨人喜欢的介绍，总结了您的立法生涯。
And this is one of the things that they mentioned.
这是他们提到的事情之一。
Not in a big way, but just as one of the things that had happened in your career.
规模不大，但只是你职业生涯中发生的事情之一。
Is it dispiriting feeling like you're just never going to shake this, you know what I mean?
这是一种令人沮丧的感觉，就像你永远无法摆脱它一样，你知道我的意思吗？
When you retire, it's going to be there?
当你退休的时候，它还会在那里吗？
In your obit, they're going to mention this in passing?
在你的讣告中，他们会顺便提到这一点吗？
It's going to be in my obituary.
这将出现在我的讣告中。
It's going to be in my obituary.
这将出现在我的讣告中。
There's a lot of things.
有很多事情。
And unfortunately, as somebody said, "History is lies agreed upon." Well, some of it's the truth, and you just have to take the good with the bad.
不幸的是，正如有人所说，“历史是商定的谎言。”嗯，有些是事实，你只需要接受好的和坏的。
Mike Miller.
迈克·米勒.
He never did run for governor or for any other statewide office.
他从未竞选过州长或任何其他州级职位。
He's a state senator, and now the longest sitting president of the Maryland State Senate in that body's history.
他是一名州参议员，现在是马里兰州参议院历史上在任时间最长的主席。
Well, our program was produced today by Starlee Kine and myself with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Jane Feltes, and Sarah Koenig.
好吧，我们今天的节目是由 Starlee Kine 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Diane Cook、Jane Feltes 和 Sarah Koenig 制作的。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Kelsey Dilts.
托德·巴赫曼 (Todd Bachmann) 和凯尔西·迪尔茨 (Kelsey Dilts) 为制作提供帮助。
Special thanks today to Luke Burbank and William Eville.
今天特别感谢卢克·伯班克和威廉·埃维尔。
You can download audio of our program at audible.com/thisamericanlife, where they have public radio programs, best-selling books, even The New York Times, all at audible.com.
您可以在 audible.com/thisamericanlife 下载我们节目的音频，那里有公共广播节目、畅销书，甚至纽约时报，所有这些都在 audible.com 上。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who has a message for you, a very important message.
[资金来源] Torey Malatia 先生对 WBEZ 项目进行管理监督，他向您传达了一条非常重要的信息。
And he wants you to listen very, very carefully.
他希望你非常非常仔细地听。
Are you ready?
你准备好了吗？
The homeless in the trees are mourning your economic decisions.
树上的无家可归者正在哀悼你们的经济决定。
Repent, dear King, or go to hell.
亲爱的国王，悔改吧，否则就下地狱吧。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。