254: Teenage Embed, Part Two - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #254 | November 4, 2005 254: Teenage Embed, Part Two Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 254 集 | 2005 年 11 月 4 日 254：青少年嵌入，第二部分 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass He's eighteen.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 他十八岁。
He grew up near San Francisco, playing football and video games.
他在旧金山附近长大，踢足球和电子游戏。
Hyder Akbar is his name.
海德·阿克巴是他的名字。
His family's from Afghanistan.
他的家人来自阿富汗。
And after the Taliban were defeated in 2001, his father's old friend, Hamid Karzai, now the president of Afghanistan, asked his dad to come back and help out.
2001年塔利班被击败后，他父亲的老朋友、现任阿富汗总统哈米德·卡尔扎伊请他的父亲回来帮忙。
His dad and his uncles had all been part of the resistance that had kicked out the Soviets from Afghanistan, back in the 1980s.
他的父亲和叔叔都是 20 世纪 80 年代将苏联人赶出阿富汗的抵抗运动的一部分。
So, when Hyder was 17, he went to Afghanistan.
因此，当海德 17 岁时，他去了阿富汗。
This place that he'd been hearing about his whole life.
这个他一生都听说过的地方。
And he took a tape recorder with him.
他还随身带着一台录音机。
You may have heard the audio diary that he put together for our radio show, with producer Susan Burton, about a year ago.
您可能听过他大约一年前与制片人苏珊·伯顿为我们的广播节目制作的音频日记。
Then the next summer he went back.
然后第二年夏天他就回去了。
His father was now the governor of Kunar province, which is this remote area along the border with Pakistan.
他的父亲现在是库纳尔省的省长，该省是与巴基斯坦接壤的偏远地区。
One of those contested areas where the Taliban and Al-Qaida and local warlords are all still fighting with the new Afghan government and the United States military.
这是塔利班、基地组织和当地军阀仍在与阿富汗新政府和美国军队作战的争议地区之一。
The fate of Afghanistan, we're sometimes told, is being decided in places like Kunar.
有时我们被告知，阿富汗的命运正在库纳尔这样的地方决定。
And in Kunar, Hyder saw amazing things.
在库纳尔，海德看到了令人惊奇的事情。
Things that reporters almost never get to see.
记者几乎看不到的东西。
He traveled with the US military.
他随美军旅行。
He saw them interact with the Afghans.
他看到他们与阿富汗人互动。
He translated for them sometimes.
他有时为他们翻译。
He saw behind the scenes in the new government.
他看到了新政府的幕后情况。
Today on our radio show, Teenage Embed.
今天在我们的广播节目《青少年嵌入》中。
WBEZ Chicago, this is This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是《美国生活》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
This is really one of the most special hours we have ever put together on the radio.
这确实是我们在广播中安排的最特别的时间之一。
And it is with pleasure that I turn things over to Hyder Akbar.
我很高兴将事情交给 Hyder Akbar。
I was met at the airport by Sartore, who is our driver.
我们的司机萨尔托在机场迎接了我。
But he's almost become part of the family, because he's been with us for so long.
但他几乎已经成为这个家庭的一员了，因为他和我们在一起这么久了。
Sartore!
萨托雷！
Sartore!
萨托雷！
Hyder Akbar And Sartore was my very good friend last summer.
海德·阿克巴尔和萨托雷是我去年夏天的好朋友。
He was the person that was closest to my age.
他是与我年龄最接近的人。
So we became really close.
所以我们变得非常亲密。
[CAR HORN BEEPING] Kabul has changed tremendously.
[汽车喇叭声]喀布尔发生了巨大的变化。
Right now, there's like three girls in front of me.
现在，我面前有三个女孩。
All they have is like a loose chador, but I see their jeans underneath their [?
他们只有一件宽松的罩袍，但我看到他们的[？
cloak.
披风。
?] Last year, burkas were probably about 95%.
？] 去年，罩袍的比例可能约为 95%。
This year, I'd say they've dropped to under a quarter, one out of four.
今年，我想说他们已经下降到四分之一以下，即四分之一。
Apparently there's a new game show in Kabul.
显然喀布尔有一个新的游戏节目。
It's like a trivia show, asking like geographical questions, et cetera.
这就像一个问答节目，问地理问题等等。
You can hear it.
你可以听到它。
I guess the trivia part's over, now they have a Coke drinking contest.
我想琐事部分已经结束了，现在他们有一场喝可乐比赛。
Whoever can drink the most Coke, whoever finishes a one and a half liter bottle of Coke I guess wins.
我猜谁能喝最多的可乐，谁喝完一瓶半升的可乐，谁就获胜。
OK, it starts.
好的，开始了。
But the funniest thing is the prizes.
但最有趣的是奖品。
They're like, six containers of oil.
它们就像六个容器的油。
That's one of the prizes.
这是奖品之一。
Two cases of soap was another prize.
另一项奖品是两箱肥皂。
One of the guys gave up.
其中一个家伙放弃了。
That guy won a box of detergent.
那家伙赢得了一盒洗涤剂。
The one who won the Coke drinking contest won a box of detergent, and some shoes.
喝可乐比赛获胜的人赢得了一盒清洁剂和一些鞋子。
Hello, hello.
你好，你好。
The road to Kunar is really bad.
去库纳尔的路实在是太糟糕了。
Sartore says, you can't really get a sense of the road unless you come and drive on it yourself.
萨托尔说，除非你亲自开车过去，否则你无法真正了解这条路。
Hearing it on the microphone doesn't cut it.
通过麦克风听到它并不会减少它。
We're probably about three, four hours away from Kunar.
我们距离库纳尔大约有三、四个小时的路程。
We're going about 20 kilometers an hour, so 15 miles an hour, I'd say.
我们的行驶速度约为每小时 20 公里，所以我想说，每小时 15 英里。
We can't go any faster than that on these roads.
在这些路上我们不能走得比这更快了。
Bump after bump after bump.
一次又一次的碰撞。
And then finally, we got to the American base.
最后，我们到达了美国基地。
And he's like, the Americans are over there.
他说，美国人就在那里。
And we went further in to the main part of the city.
我们又进一步深入到了城市的主要部分。
It was like a little market in the middle of town.
这就像镇中心的一个小市场。
And I think everybody was looking at the car.
我想每个人都在看这辆车。
Because everybody recognize white pickup trucks belong to my father, and they're like, ahh, governor's son's here.
因为每个人都知道白色皮卡车是我父亲的，他们就像，啊，州长的儿子在这里。
And as I entered I saw that there was a bunch of people in there waiting.
当我进去的时候，我看到有一群人在那里等着。
And they were like, standing in a line.
他们就像，站成一排。
And so I was greeting everybody, and giving everyone a hug.
所以我向每个人打招呼，给每个人一个拥抱。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Then my father came.
[说外语]然后我父亲来了。
And my mom was like, you better kiss your father's hand, don't forget to kiss it.
我妈妈说，你最好亲吻你父亲的手，别忘了亲吻它。
Don't just go up there and hug him.
不要只是上去拥抱他。
You know people are going to be watching you, his son.
你知道人们会看着你，他的儿子。
And he's like the governor's there, so don't go and give him a hug and just like lift him up or anything.
他就像州长在那里，所以不要去拥抱他，就像把他举起来什么的。
Just give him a kiss on the hand as a sign of respect.
只需亲吻他的手以示尊重即可。
And then when you go inside you guys can talk and stuff.
然后当你进去的时候，你们就可以聊天之类的了。
And so I remembered that.
所以我记住了这一点。
And I was like, I kissed his hand.
我当时想，我吻了他的手。
And it was weird to finally see him in Kunar, sort of where he's grown up and everybody knows him.
终于在库纳尔见到他感觉很奇怪，那里是他长大的地方，每个人都认识他。
And it was weird to be in that kind of place where he belonged so much.
来到他如此归属的地方感觉很奇怪。
Hello, hello.
你好，你好。
It's about 10:30 at night.
时间是晚上10点30分左右。
I'm actually using a special flashlight that Americans gave to Sartore.
我实际上用的是美国人送给萨托雷的特殊手电筒。
He really likes it.
他真的很喜欢。
It's a really cool-looking flashlight.
这是一款看起来非常酷的手电筒。
It's a long tube thing.
这是一个长管子的东西。
It's like those kinds you see and use them in the movies.
就像您在电影中看到和使用的那些类型一样。
Like The Fugitive , or stuff like that, where they look around in rooms.
就像逃亡者，或者类似的东西，他们在房间里环顾四周。
So we're outside.
所以我们在外面。
It's pretty dark, because Kunar doesn't have electricity.
库纳尔没有电，所以很黑。
The landscape's incredible.
风景令人难以置信。
Mountains after mountains, and then rivers flowing underneath, and trees.
一座又一座山，下面是流淌的河流和树木。
It's a beautiful place.
这是一个美丽的地方。
[SIGHS] There's still a lot of problems.
[叹气]仍然有很多问题。
It just seems like such a daunting task.
这似乎是一项艰巨的任务。
These border areas, these tribal areas, all the history.
这些边疆地区，这些部落地区，都有历史。
I talked to my dad today about it.
今天我和我爸爸谈了这件事。
It seems like it's never been tamed.
它似乎从未被驯服过。
From the British, to the Russians, to everybody.
从英国人，到俄罗斯人，到每个人。
To Alexander the Great.
献给亚历山大大帝。
They've all struggled.
他们都曾挣扎过。
And now my dad is trying.
现在我爸爸正在努力。
Like any of the people in the government right now, I read somewhere in an article, they joked.
他们开玩笑说，就像现在政府里的任何人一样，我在一篇文章中读到过。
They said they wouldn't be good life insurance policy candidates.
他们说他们不会成为优秀的人寿保险保单候选人。
And it's true.
这是真的。
[SIGHS] It's really weird to take walks with my dad and have armed guards walking around with me.
[叹气] 和我爸爸一起散步并且有武装警卫和我一起走来走去真的很奇怪。
[INTERPOSING VOICES] I'm just talking to my dad right now.
[插话]我现在正在和我爸爸说话。
We're walking by the river.
我们正在河边散步。
This is usually where we take our walks.
这通常是我们散步的地方。
There's a little stairway down to the riverside from the house.
从房子有一个小楼梯可以通往河边。
We're walking alongside there with my dad.
我们和我爸爸一起走在那里。
It's been interesting to talk to my dad about some of the problems he's facing in Kunar.
和我父亲谈论他在库纳尔面临的一些问题很有趣。
There's the obvious ones, like interference from Taliban, or Al-Qaida.
有一些显而易见的问题，比如来自塔利班或基地组织的干扰。
There's the opium.
那里有鸦片。
But one of the problems that's not being reported much about, but is becoming somewhat of a serious problem, is the re-emergence of the Afghan communists.
但是，阿富汗共产党的重新崛起是一个没有被太多报道但正在成为一个严重问题的问题。
They are not ideologically communists.
他们在意识形态上不是共产主义者。
They were just people that fought on the Soviet side during the resistance.
他们只是抗战时期站在苏联一边的人。
These people have become police chiefs, have gotten high positions in the interior ministry, the defense ministry, and this has brought back former tormentors over the people that they tormented.
这些人已经成为警察局长，在内政部和国防部中担任要职，这让以前的折磨者重新回到了他们所折磨的人身上。
And this is creating problems.
这正在产生问题。
Especially in Kunar.
尤其是在库纳尔。
My dad has told me about this mass grave right next to us here.
我父亲告诉我关于我们旁边的这个乱葬坑的事。
This was actually done, I think, during let's say around 1978.
我认为，这实际上是在 1978 年左右完成的。
What they did, the communists, what they did was they called all the tribal elders in this area.
他们所做的，共产党人，他们所做的就是召集了这个地区所有的部落长老。
So about 1,200 men were called up.
于是大约有1200人被征召入伍。
And once the 1,200 people came, the communists they started gunning down basically everybody.
一旦 1,200 人到来，共产党人就开始枪杀基本上所有人。
And so it's a really huge blow to these people, to see these people back in the government after the massacres like that.
因此，在这样的屠杀之后看到这些人回到政府，对这些人来说确实是一个巨大的打击。
And so anyway, I'll probably discuss it more when I'm there with the people that were there.
所以无论如何，当我在那里与在场的人一起讨论时，我可能会更多地讨论它。
There's some people that survived it.
有一些人幸存下来。
OK, I'm walking to it now.
好的，我现在就去那里。
The person that was here actually survived.
这里的人竟然还活着。
So he's going to come and tell us exactly what happened.
所以他会过来告诉我们到底发生了什么。
It's usually locked, so he has to open it.
它通常是锁着的，所以他必须打开它。
Turning the door.
转动门。
OK, I'm inside the place.
好的，我在这个地方。
You can hear me walking over the leaves.
你可以听到我走过树叶的声音。
I didn't want to get too close with the mic.
我不想离麦克风太近。
As soon as he walked in he burst into tears.
一走进去，他就泪流满面。
You see huge bumps in the middle, rising up.
你会看到中间有巨大的凸起，正在升起。
I'd say four feet high.
我想说四英尺高。
That's where the people were piled up on, buried.
那是人们堆积、埋葬的地方。
I see a really old hat.
我看到一顶非常旧的帽子。
It's probably one of the people's hats that were killed here.
这可能是这里被杀的人的帽子之一。
Because they left the place just like it was.
因为他们就这样离开了这个地方。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar So he's basically telling me what happened.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 所以他基本上是在告诉我发生了什么。
He came by this bridge that's about 30 yards away from here.
他经过这座距离这里大约三十码的桥。
And he said, I saw like a fire in here.
他说，我看到这里就像着火了。
And I saw this cloud of smoke, and a lot of red.
我看到了这团烟雾，还有很多红色。
I saw a lot of red, so I knew there was something going on, people being shot.
我看到很多红色，所以我知道发生了一些事情，有人被枪杀。
He said when he got closer, he saw bulldozers.
他说，当他走近时，他看到了推土机。
Right in this place where we're standing right now, he saw bulldozers climbing on top of the people.
就在我们现在站的这个地方，他看到推土机爬到了人们的身上。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar He says he saw some of the people, they were pretending like they were killed.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 他说他看到了一些人，他们假装被杀了。
And they were just lying still because they thought that maybe, if we lie still here and pretend we're dead, they're just going to walk away.
他们只是静静地躺着，因为他们认为，如果我们静静地躺在这里假装死了，他们就会走开。
But then they started pulling the bulldozers ahead.
但随后他们开始用推土机向前推进。
And then they realized what was going on.
然后他们意识到发生了什么事。
And before they could do anything, they were just-- piles of dirt was piled upon them with the bulldozers.
在他们能做任何事情之前，他们只是——推土机在他们身上堆起了一堆堆泥土。
And they were buried in there alive.
他们被活埋在那里。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar Another man's saying, to the right of me, he remembers it too.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 另一个人说，在我右边，他也记得这件事。
Because his grandmother had died and there was a funeral.
因为他的祖母去世了，并且举行了葬礼。
So most people from his family were here.
所以他家里的大部分人都在这里。
They grabbed his father, and they took him.
他们抓住了他的父亲，把他带走了。
And he said, I was only in fifth grade at that time, so I say, why are they grabbing my father?
他说，我当时才五年级，所以我说，他们为什么要抓我父亲？
He said, I ran after my father and I grabbed him by the hand to try to bring him back.
他说，我追赶父亲，抓住他的手，试图把他拉回来。
And he said, the soldier just grabbed me by the shoulder, and threw me out in front of the house.
他说，那个士兵抓住我的肩膀，把我扔到了房子前面。
And people, they just started gunning all of them down.
而人们，他们刚刚开始枪杀所有人。
And 63 other people were killed in this house in front of him.
在他面前的这所房子里，还有另外63人被杀。
He says he remembers it like it was just a couple moments ago, because it was just done in front of his eyes.
他说他记得这件事就像是几分钟前发生的一样，因为这件事就在他眼前完成。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar And he says, there's no elders in his family left.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 他说，他家里没有长辈了。
No fathers, no uncles, none of the fathers of his cousins, none of them are alive.
没有父亲，没有叔叔，没有一个表兄弟的父亲，他们都不在了。
So he says, I'm the oldest person left in the family.
所以他说，我是家里剩下的最年长的人。
And that was his hat.
那是他的帽子。
It's amazing.
太棒了。
At first, they were all tentative to talk.
起初，他们都试探性地说话。
But when the elder came to me and told me about his story of surviving, all these young, not young guys, but like guys in their 30s, are coming up to me now.
但当长辈来找我，告诉我他的生存故事时，所有这些年轻人，不是年轻人，而是三十多岁的年轻人，现在都向我走来。
And everybody has a story.
每个人都有一个故事。
Everybody wants to pour their heart out.
每个人都想倾诉自己的心声。
And if I could, I'd dedicate the whole hour to them on the radio.
如果可以的话，我愿意用一小时的时间在广播中为他们献上时光。
So they could just get their story out.
这样他们就可以把他们的故事讲出来。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar It's so tragic that like, nobody even knows their story.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 这是如此悲惨，以至于没有人知道他们的故事。
I mean, there's lines dedicated to the massacre here and there in certain books.
我的意思是，某些书中到处都有专门描述大屠杀的台词。
Like, on April 20, 1979, in a village outside of Islamabad called Kerala, 1,147 people were killed.
比如，1979 年 4 月 20 日，在伊斯兰堡郊外一个名叫喀拉拉邦的村庄里，有 1,147 人被杀。
Have you ever read the Revelations in the Holy Bible?
你读过圣经中的启示录吗？
It's like judgment day, or the day the world ends.
这就像审判日，或者世界末日。
It must have been like that for them.
对他们来说一定是这样的。
The sky becoming red, and the ground shaking, because there's people trapped alive that want to get out.
天空变红，大地摇晃，因为有人被困住了，想要出去。
I mean, imagine going through that.
我的意思是，想象一下经历过这一切。
Being a little boy or a little girl watching all of that happen.
作为一个小男孩或小女孩看着这一切发生。
Or a woman watching her husband and all her sons die like that.
或者一个女人看着她的丈夫和她所有的儿子就这样死去。
And like how can you even expect this person to want to go on, and want to rebuild and reconstruct.
就像你怎么能期望这个人想要继续下去，想要重建和重建。
You just wish you had a trillion dollars and you could just build everything for them.
你只希望自己拥有一万亿美元，并且可以为他们建造一切。
And just tell them to sit home and just relax.
并告诉他们坐在家里放松一下。
Tomorrow should be interesting.
明天应该会很有趣。
I am going with the Americans to an area called Korengal.
我要和美国人一起去一个叫科伦加尔的地区。
There's a problem.
有问题。
One of the communists have gone to Korengal, and he's done a lot of bad things there.
一名共产党员去了科伦加尔，他在那里做了很多坏事。
There's been a lot of complaints from there.
那里有很多抱怨。
So the Americans want to take that guy.
所以美国人想带走那个人。
His name is Shah Wali.
他的名字叫沙阿·瓦利。
They want to take Shah Wali to Korengal in Kunar and face his accusers.
他们想将沙阿瓦利带到库纳尔的科伦加尔并面对他的指控者。
And it's going to be pretty exciting to see how the Americans work and how they talk with people.
看到美国人如何工作以及他们如何与人交谈将会非常令人兴奋。
One of the problems is, the Americans like professional people.
问题之一是，美国人喜欢专业人士。
Professional people here are the communists.
这里的专业人士是共产党员。
Those are the only professional people left here that were trained by the Russians in military or police work.
这些是留在这里的唯一接受过俄罗斯人军事或警察培训的专业人士。
And the Americans like working with them, because they're organized.
美国人喜欢与他们合作，因为他们很有组织性。
It's been really interesting with the Americans.
这对美国人来说真的很有趣。
I've met the Americans now.
我现在已经认识了美国人。
They know I'm here.
他们知道我在这里。
And when I talk to Americans it feels like, oh, there's my countrymen.
当我与美国人交谈时，感觉就像是，哦，这是我的同胞。
The other people tease me like that too, the people around here.
其他人也这样取笑我，这里的人。
Like the security guards, and like Sartore and them tease me about it.
就像保安，还有萨托，他们都拿这件事来取笑我。
You know, like, your tribe, there's your tribe, when they see the Americans.
你知道，就像你的部落，当他们看到美国人时，那就是你的部落。
Good, how are you?
很好，你好吗？
You know how long it's going to take to Korengal?
你知道到Korengal 需要多长时间吗？
About two and a half hours.
大约两个半小时。
Hyder Akbar Two and a half hours?
Hyder Akbar 两个半小时？
So around 5:30 in the morning I went over to the American base with my uncle.
早上5点30分左右，我和叔叔一起去了美国基地。
We're on our way.
我们正在路上。
My uncle's name is Abdul Rauf but people usually refer to him as either Mullah Rauf or Commander Rauf.
我叔叔的名字是阿卜杜勒·拉乌夫，但人们通常称他为毛拉·拉乌夫或指挥官拉乌夫。
I usually just refer to him as mama, which means uncle.
我通常只称他为妈妈，意思是叔叔。
Mullah Rauf is really respected.
毛拉·劳夫确实很受尊重。
He was probably one of the biggest commanders fighting against the Soviets.
他可能是与苏联作战的最伟大的指挥官之一。
He's lost an eye.
他失去了一只眼睛。
He's been injured severely two, three times.
他受过两次、三次重伤。
He doesn't really have any formal relationship with the Americans.
他与美国人并没有任何正式关系。
He's basically there helping out my dad, almost as his unofficial deputy.
他基本上是在帮助我父亲，几乎是他的非官方副手。
I'm traveling now with the Americans.
我现在和美国人一起旅行。
I'm in a car with Dave from Indiana, Keith, and John, and Rauf mama.
我和来自印第安纳州的戴夫、基思、约翰以及劳夫妈妈坐在一辆车里。
And then we finally got there.
然后我们终于到了那里。
I guess that you could call it the equivalent of a town hall.
我想你可以称它相当于市政厅。
It was just like a really small room.
这就像一个非常小的房间。
Mattresses on the floor, a couple of chairs inside.
地板上有床垫，里面有几把椅子。
The reason we came up here was two-fold.
我们来到这里的原因有两个。
His father represents President Karzai.
他的父亲代表卡尔扎伊总统。
President Karzai has imposed a-- what you call it, it's a moratorium.
卡尔扎伊总统实施了一项——你所说的暂停措施。
Anyway, he's preventing people from cutting down all the trees.
无论如何，他正在阻止人们砍伐所有的树木。
Kunar obviously doesn't have much of an economy.
库纳尔显然没有太多经济。
But one of the few things that Kunar has is really rare in Afghanistan, and that's timber.
但库纳尔拥有的为数不多的东西之一在阿富汗确实很罕见，那就是木材。
His reason is, unless you have a program to regrow the trees, it's going to have a bad effect.
他的理由是，除非你有一个重新种植树木的计划，否则将会产生不良影响。
And so many people going into the mountains, cutting down wood, and there's a lot of money involved.
很多人进山砍柴，涉及到很多钱。
And it's supporting Al-Qaida, or Taliban, or people that are against the government.
它支持基地组织、塔利班或反对政府的人。
My uncle had never heard of it.
我叔叔从来没有听说过。
But he said there's this weird thing, it's called [?
但他说有一个奇怪的东西，它叫做[？
a chinsa ?] And I was like, [?
chinsa？] 我当时想，[？
a chinsa ?].
一个中国人？]。
What is a [?
什么是[？
chinsa?
钦萨？
?] And he was like, it's a really weird equipment that can cut down trees really fast.
？]他说，这是一种非常奇怪的设备，可以非常快地砍伐树木。
And he's like, it's called a [?
他就像，这叫做[？
chinsa.
钦萨。
?]
？]
He's like, we went into the mountains one time to look for these people, to see if they really were cutting down trees.
他说，有一次我们进山寻找这些人，看看他们是否真的在砍伐树木。
And he's like, I heard a motor in the background.
他说，我听到背景中有马达声。
I thought somebody was on a motorcycle somewhere off in the distance.
我以为远处有人骑着摩托车。
And one of the soldiers told me, oh no, that's a [?
一名士兵告诉我，哦不，那是[？
chinsa.
钦萨。
?] And I obviously realized, it's a chainsaw.
？] 我显然意识到，这是一把电锯。
And maybe somebody brought it over from China to Pakistan, and then they sold it to people there.
也许有人把它从中国带到巴基斯坦，然后卖给那里的人。
And by the time it goes into Afghanistan, it turns into a [?
当它进入阿富汗时，它就变成了[？
chinsa.
钦萨。
?]
？]
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] What was the third one?
[说外语]第三个是什么？
At first, the translator was doing an all right job.
起初，翻译工作做得还不错。
But then I had to interrupt him several times.
但后来我不得不多次打断他。
So around this time, I took over the translation.
就在这个时候，我接手了翻译工作。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Soldier The second reason is that there was a problem that was up here a few months ago.
[说外语]士兵第二个原因是几个月前这里出现了一个问题。
So then he started talking about the second reason why they were there, and that was because of the ex-communist, Shah Wali.
然后他开始谈论他们在那里的第二个原因，那就是因为前共产党员沙阿瓦利。
We brought Shah Wali up here, we have the elders here, so that we don't have a repeat of this problem in the future.
我们把Shah Wali带到了这里，我们有长辈在这里，这样我们以后就不会再出现这个问题了。
Just because people don't like other people, there's a personality conflict, OK?
仅仅因为人们不喜欢其他人，就会产生性格冲突，好吗？
It doesn't mean that you can't follow the duly appointed people in those positions.
这并不意味着您不能跟随正式任命的人员担任这些职位。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar They're really trying to establish authority there, the Americans are.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 他们真的想在那里建立权威，美国人就是这样。
And Shah Wali was a person of authority.
沙阿瓦利是一个有权威的人。
But, this is just a corrupt official that takes bribes, steals money.
但是，这只是一个贪官受贿、偷钱而已。
And that's what the problem came down to.
这就是问题所在。
They refused to make the payments of him asking for bribes.
他们拒绝支付他索贿的款项。
And the Americans saw it as a refusal to pay tax.
美国人认为这是拒绝纳税。
And not accepting authority, or not obeying authority.
不接受权威，或者不服从权威。
What I was going to say, for instance, in the United States, if I get fined from a policeman for driving too fast.
例如，在美国，如果我因为开得太快而被警察罚款，我会说些什么。
But I think I was driving the speed limit, OK.
但我认为我已经达到了限速，好吧。
I don't shoot the policeman, OK.
我不会开枪打警察，好吧。
Yeah, OK.
是的，好的。
Soldier I don't run him over and say, I'm not going to listen to you, because I was right and you were wrong.
士兵，我不会撞到他并说，我不会听你的，因为我是对的，你是错的。
I go through the official system.
我是走官方系统的。
This policeman analogy, if you really want to use it.
这个警察的比喻，如果你真的想用的话。
Now imagine that this policeman had come into your house, and had robbed you like a year ago, and maybe killed a couple kids or two for you.
现在想象一下，这个警察来到你家，像一年前一样抢劫了你，也许还为你杀了一两个孩子。
And just walked out of your house, and then you started fighting him for like six months.
刚走出你的房子，然后你们就开始和他战斗了大约六个月。
And then, like the ninth one he comes and gives you a speeding ticket for going 55 in a 60 mile an hour.
然后，就像第九个人一样，他来给你一张超速罚单，让你以每小时 60 英里的速度行驶 55 英里。
That would be more an accurate analogy about what happened.
对于所发生的事情来说，这将是一个更准确的类比。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Translator He says, we understand that we have to obey the central government, the provincial government.
[说外语]翻译他说，我们明白我们要服从中央政府、省政府。
And we do obey them.
我们确实服从他们。
But he said, if there's some guys coming here, like thuggery, or you know sort of running it like a mafia, then that you know, I can't be responsible for that.
但他说，如果有人来这里，比如行凶，或者你知道像黑手党一样运作，那么你知道，我不能为此负责。
Let's bring out the people.
我们把人带出来吧。
So Shah Wali comes in and starts talking also.
于是沙阿·瓦利也进来并开始讲话。
And when he starts talking, it's really super fast.
当他开始说话时，速度真的超级快。
So you can tell, he's a little worried.
所以你可以看出，他有点担心。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar It's not really resolved at all.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 根本没有真正解决。
When he got there, he was with the Americans.
当他到达那里时，他和美国人在一起。
And so most of the people that had been robbed by him, or that had been beaten by him, or that had their money stolen, or whatever, were too afraid to say anything.
所以大部分被他抢过的，或者被他打过的，或者被偷过钱的，或者其他什么的，都不敢说什么。
And Americans thought everything was OK.
美国人认为一切都好。
And OK, let's take a picture now.
好吧，现在让我们拍张照片。
So we decided to take a picture.
于是我们决定拍张照片。
I want to get a picture of him shaking Shah Wali's hand.
我想拍一张他和沙瓦利握手的照片。
[LAUGHTER]
[笑声]
Most of the mujahideen are like the Mullah Rauf.
大多数圣战者就像毛拉拉乌夫一样。
They're proud people.
他们是骄傲的人。
Not the kind of people that will go right away and kiss somebody's ass for a job.
不是那种会立即去拍别人屁股以获得工作的人。
But the communists are willing to do that.
但共产党人愿意这样做。
They've worked for foreigners before, they'll do it again.
他们以前为外国人工作过，他们还会再做一次。
And that really, in Kunar, it's gotten to a serious point.
事实上，在库纳尔，事情已经到了严重的地步。
Where it's the same communist people now, it's just a different group of white people with them.
现在是同样的共产主义人民，只不过是一群不同的白人。
It was just exactly what they would say, you know.
你知道，这正是他们会说的。
And so it's important for the Americans to see who they befriend.
因此，对于美国人来说，了解他们与谁交朋友很重要。
It's causing serious damage to them.
这对他们造成严重损害。
Everybody's calm downed, you see.
大家都冷静下来了，你看。
Let's talk now about some of the problems, and I'm going to let some of the other people speak in the room now.
现在我们来谈谈一些问题，现在我将让其他一些人在房间里发言。
Major Doug will talk about the projects we can do to bring peace and stability.
道格少校将谈论我们可以开展哪些项目来带来和平与稳定。
Next we started talking about school projects, or clinics, maybe a bridge.
接下来我们开始谈论学校项目，或者诊所，也许是一座桥梁。
And I think Shah Wali was just like, one incident, where this could mean a lot of permanent changes for them.
我认为沙阿瓦利就像一个事件，这可能对他们意味着很多永久性的改变。
So I think the school and bridges were more important for them.
所以我认为学校和桥梁对他们来说更重要。
I'm going to tell you that I cannot promise you we're going to build you a clinic, a school, a road or a bridge.
我要告诉你，我不能向你保证我们会为你建造一座诊所、一所学校、一条道路或一座桥梁。
I will not promise you that.
我不会向你保证这一点。
And if another soldier promised you that, I can't guarantee that those things are going to happen.
如果另一个士兵向你保证了这一点，我不能保证这些事情会发生。
I can tell you that we have submitted the paperwork to try and build a school here.
我可以告诉你，我们已经提交了尝试在这里建立一所学校的文件。
But I am waiting on approval from my generals to see if we can do that.
但我正在等待将军们的批准，看看我们是否能做到这一点。
Seems like nobody could make a decision.
似乎没有人能做出决定。
Or nobody can make a promise, except for Bush or somebody.
或者除了布什或其他人之外，没有人可以做出承诺。
Because everybody else has somebody higher up above them who has the real authority, who they're going to have to wait for what they decide.
因为其他人都有一个比他们更高的人，他们拥有真正的权力，他们必须等待他们的决定。
So it does kind of disappoint people at times.
所以有时确实会让人们失望。
And they do not seem like the strongest of allies when they can't even promise a bridge to them.
当他们甚至不能承诺为他们搭建一座桥梁时，他们看起来并不是最强大的盟友。
Coming up, things get more dangerous.
接下来，事情会变得更加危险。
A lot more dangerous.
危险得多。
Plus, a kitten.
另外，还有一只小猫。
When Hyder Akbar's story continues in the second half of our program.
当海德·阿克巴的故事在我们节目的后半部分继续时。
From Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，来自芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台。
This is This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
If you're just tuning in, we're devoting our entire program today to Hyder Akbar's audio diaries from Afghanistan.
如果您刚刚收听，我们今天的整个节目将致力于海德·阿克巴（Hyder Akbar）来自阿富汗的音频日记。
Hyder was 18 years old when he recorded these, in the summer of 2003, in Kunar Province, where his dad was governor.
2003 年夏天，海德在库纳尔省录制这些歌曲时年仅 18 岁，他的父亲是该省的省长。
And we pick up where we left off.
然后我们从上次停下的地方继续。
Hyder is out with US forces.
海德已离开美军。
We're on our way back, and I guess they've seen like a wire on the road.
我们正在返回的路上，我猜他们已经看到了路上的一根电线。
And they think it's a mine, so we've stopped.
他们认为这是一个地雷，所以我们就停下来了。
They're all getting out of the car, to make sure everything's OK.
他们都下了车，以确保一切顺利。
They've seen a wire, so they want to make sure they're not going to get ambushed or anything.
他们看到了一根电线，所以他们想确保自己不会遭到伏击或其他什么。
Is there something going on?
有什么事吗？
Soldier Yeah, there's a wire across the road down there.
士兵 是的，下面马路对面有一根电线。
Sure.
当然。
Soldier An old man and old woman, they were walking together.
士兵 一个老男人和一个老女人，他们走在一起。
We passed them coming down.
我们从他们身边走过。
We can hike up to them, but--
我们可以徒步到他们那里，但是——
They saw a man up above us, higher on the road.
他们看到一个人在我们上方，在道路更高的地方。
And he was just sitting there with his wife.
他只是和他的妻子坐在那里。
Anyone want to ask that [BEEP]-er if he's got a phone on him, or a radio?
有人想问那个[嘟嘟]——呃，他身上是否有电话或收音机？
Does he have a radio, because they thought maybe, he might have something with him.
他有收音机吗？因为他们认为他身上可能有什么东西。
Or maybe he's the signal guy.
或者也许他是信号员。
And they were just being extra careful to make sure there's not two men sitting there with just another man in the burka, or something like that.
他们只是格外小心，以确保没有两个男人坐在那里，而另一个男人则穿着罩袍或类似的衣服。
Yeah, he's got his wife with him.
是的，他还有他的妻子。
I don't think-- Can we call them over here?
我不认为——我们可以把他们叫到这里来吗？
It's his wife.
这是他的妻子。
You're not going to disturb his wife, right?
你不会打扰他的妻子吧？
Yeah.
是的。
Hyder Akbar You could tell he was a poor guy, just, you know, had like a shawl around him, but a really beat up shawl.
海德·阿克巴尔（Hyder Akbar） 你看得出他是个穷人，只是，你知道，他身上围着一条围巾，但围巾确实破旧了。
And he was absolutely terrified.
他非常害怕。
He was like, who are these people walking up towards me?
他说，这些向我走来的人是谁？
You know he's just a man on the side of the road sitting down.
你知道他只是一个坐在路边的人。
They asked him, what are you doing here?
他们问他，你来这里做什么？
He said we're taking a break, we got tired, we're sitting down here.
他说我们休息一下，我们累了，就坐在这里。
Maybe if a car comes down, we'll hitch a ride.
也许如果有车坏了，我们就搭便车。
His wife is just sitting in the corner like a ghost.
他的妻子就像幽灵一样坐在角落里。
Please forgive us, as we've disturbed your rest.
请原谅我们打扰了您的休息。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar No, we don't have a problem.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 不，我们没有问题。
This is our country.
这是我们的国家。
We want peace and security, so we don't mind you guys taking measures.
我们想要和平与安全，所以我们不介意你们采取措施。
I'm always glad when I hear a humble man express that.
当我听到一个谦虚的人表达这一点时，我总是很高兴。
If you see something in the road that looks like an explosive, or a wire, don't do anything about it yourself.
如果您在路上看到类似爆炸物或电线的东西，请不要自行采取任何行动。
Contact an official.
联系官员。
After they're done, it almost sounds like the forest ranger at your local national park after he stops you when he thinks you have like a lighter in your hand.
当他们完成后，听起来就像是当地国家公园的护林员认为你手里拿着打火机时阻止了你。
And you don't have a lighter in your hand.
而且你手里没有打火机。
And then he gives you the little speech about, yeah, just in case, remember never to smoke.
然后他给你简短的演讲，是的，以防万一，记住永远不要吸烟。
We're heading back.
我们要回去了。
They either got it cleared or realized it wasn't a danger.
他们要么把它清理干净，要么意识到这不是危险。
Have a good day, man.
祝你有美好的一天，伙计。
So I guess they've either de-mined it, or it wasn't anything to begin with.
所以我猜他们要么已经排雷了，要么一开始就什么都不是。
So, you know.
所以，你知道。
Every trip in Kunar is an adventure.
库纳尔的每次旅行都是一次冒险。
Just got ambushed.
刚刚遭到伏击。
We just got ambushed.
我们刚刚遭到伏击。
You can hear the shots fired.
你可以听到枪声。
You can hear the shots fired at us.
你可以听到向我们开枪的声音。
We're being fired at.
我们正在被射击。
There was just a mine that blew up in front of us.
我们面前刚刚爆炸了一个地雷。
I better get down.
我最好还是下去吧
I better get down.
我最好还是下去吧
We've been ambushed.
我们遭到伏击了。
I can't get down.
我下不来。
Get down.
下来。
Hyder Akbar I'm trying to get, how can I get down more than this?
Hyder Akbar 我想得到，我怎么能比这更沮丧呢？
I can't duck down, I'm totally exposed.
我无法躲开，我完全暴露了。
I'm totally exposed.
我完全暴露了。
Reloading!
重新加载！
Where they at?
他们在哪里？
I can't see [BEEP].
我看不到[哔]。
Just stay down over there.
就呆在那边吧。
Hyder Akbar Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to stay down as much as I can.
Hyder Akbar 是的，是的，我正在尽力保持低调。
Just stay low.
保持低调。
Hyder Akbar [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Mama is fine.
Hyder Akbar [说外语] 妈妈很好。
[LAUGHTER]
[笑声]
Mama is joking, he's like, I'm fine.
妈妈在开玩笑，他说，我很好。
I've been through this a lot of times.
我已经经历过很多次了。
But for me it's-- [GUNSHOTS] Welcome to Kunar.
但对我来说——[枪声]欢迎来到库纳尔。
Phew.
唷。
There's a rush of blood.
一股血气涌上来。
OK, John, check our 3:00.
好的，约翰，查看我们的 3:00。
Somebody's pointing to our 3.
有人指着我们的3。
No, no, I was pointing at him, telling him--
不，不，我指着他，告诉他——
So let me explain what happened.
那么让我解释一下发生了什么。
A mine just blew up in front of us, so there was an ambush.
一枚地雷刚刚在我们面前爆炸，所以遭到了伏击。
They were trying to ambush us.
他们试图伏击我们。
There's a truck to the left of us.
我们左边有一辆卡车。
We're in the middle of a valley, mountains both side of us.
我们在山谷中间，两边都是山。
We need to be moving, we need to be moving.
我们需要行动起来，我们需要行动起来。
Let's go!
我们走吧！
Get in!
进来！
Get in!
进来！
Getting in, we're leaving.
进去了，我们就离开了。
You can see a pick-up from here.
您可以从这里看到接客服务。
I guess they were killed.
我猜他们被杀了。
[GUNSHOTS] So we're moving pretty quickly, we're getting out of here.
[枪声] 所以我们移动得很快，我们要离开这里。
Stop, stop!
停下来，停下来！
Hyder Akbar We're stopping, we're stopping, they're coming out again.
Hyder Akbar：我们停下来，我们停下来，他们又出来了。
We're fighting again.
我们又吵架了
There's more people, there's more people.
人多了，人多了。
Get down, get down.
下来吧，下来吧。
9:00!
9:00！
Hyder Akbar The general's running over here.
Hyder Akbar 将军跑过来了。
You're going to have to relay commands from these guys, who are going to be on the radio.
你必须通过无线电传达这些人的命令。
You're going to yell at me, I'm going to be on that hilltop with those AMF guys, OK?
你会对我大喊大叫，我会和那些 AMF 的人一起在山顶上，好吗？
No, you just, you stay in here, you stay safe.
不，你只是，呆在这里，保证安全。
But if he has something that comes over the radio, you yell it to me, I'll hear you.
但如果他有什么消息通过收音机传来，你就对我大喊，我会听到的。
Tell him to pull up his glass, so he doesn't get a bullet.
告诉他把玻璃杯拉起来，这样他就不会中弹了。
Tell him he don't need to lose the other eye.
告诉他他不需要失去另一只眼睛。
They joked with my uncle, they said tell him to put the window back up, we don't need him to lose the other eye.
他们和我叔叔开玩笑，他们说告诉他把窗户重新打开，我们不需要他失去另一只眼睛。
So they want me to-- he's going to run to that hill.
所以他们希望我——他要跑到那座山上。
He doesn't want me to get out of the car.
他不想让我下车。
I wouldn't mind getting out of the car.
我不介意下车。
I kind of want to see what's going on.
我有点想看看发生了什么事。
I'm surprisingly calm I guess you could say.
我想你可以说我出奇的冷静。
Hey, hey, yell to the chief, we're going to move.
嘿嘿嘿，跟队长喊一声，我们要走了。
Get everybody back over here.
让大家都回到这里来。
Chief, we're going to move!
队长，我们要出发了！
Get everybody out of here!
带大家离开这里！
Back in the cars!
回到车里！
I don't think he heard me.
我想他没有听到我说话。
He was way down.
他心情很低落。
Chief!
首席！
All right, he's coming.
好吧，他来了。
Load it up!
加载它！
Here's what's happening.
这就是发生的事情。
We're going to bound through, our two vehicles.
我们要穿过我们的两辆车。
We'll take the lead, establish another support position.
我们将带头，建立另一个支持阵地。
Then we're going to bound through and keep on going.
然后我们将跨越并继续前进。
You give me a [BEEPING]-ing thumbs up, let's go!
你给我竖起大拇指[嘟嘟]，我们走吧！
Roger that!
收到！
Soldier Let's go!
士兵我们走吧！
Get in the vehicle!
上车吧！
Goddammit let's go!
该死的我们走吧！
Let's go!
我们走吧！
Hyder Akbar Wow.
海德·阿克巴 哇。
[GUNSHOTS] We're driving fast out of here.
[枪声] 我们正快速驶离这里。
OK, we're out of here.
好的，我们离开这里。
Watch the civilians, guys!
伙计们，注意平民！
Hyder Akbar Once again, I really like mama's calmness.
Hyder Akbar 再说一遍，我真的很喜欢妈妈的冷静。
Real calm.
真正的平静。
He doesn't even have any-- He doesn't have a weapon.
他甚至没有——他没有武器。
He doesn't have any, like armored vests or anything like the Americans.
他没有任何东西，比如装甲背心或者像美国人那样的东西。
And I mean he's like the calmest out of all of them.
我的意思是他是所有人中最冷静的一个。
It was a good experience, overall, a good experience.
这是一次很好的经历，总的来说，是一次很好的经历。
That might sound insane, but I'll explain later.
这可能听起来很疯狂，但我稍后会解释。
OK, guys.
好吧，伙计们。
Hyder Akbar We'll see you guys soon.
Hyder Akbar 我们很快就会见到你们。
See you, soon.
再见。
All right, buddy, we'll catch you later.
好吧，伙计，我们稍后会找到你。
Watch movies, do something.
看电影，做点事。
OK, bye guys.
好的，再见，伙计们。
Hyder Akbar All right, take care.
海德·阿克巴尔 好吧，保重。
I like [?
我喜欢[?
how we went through ?] that baptism for Kunar.
我们是如何经历的？]库纳尔的洗礼。
It almost helped me with a little bit of legitimacy now.
现在它几乎帮助我获得了一点合法性。
All the security guards wanted to hear it.
所有的保安都想听。
And they're like oh, he's not scared.
他们就像哦，他并不害怕。
So everybody was really happy.
所以大家真的很高兴。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar And then my dad was sitting by the river, and he was sitting there with the people talking.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar 然后我爸爸坐在河边，他坐在那里和人们说话。
I was like, I have to tell you something.
我当时想，我必须告诉你一些事情。
He's like, all right, just wait until I'm done.
他说，好吧，等我说完。
I was like, no, no you have to get up for just a minute and talk.
我当时想，不，不，你必须站起来谈谈。
And he got up for a minute, and I told him what happened.
他站了起来，我告诉他发生了什么事。
I said, we got ambushed.
我说，我们遭到伏击了。
He's like, did anybody get killed?
他说，有人被杀了吗？
I was like, no. Did anybody get injured?
我当时想，不。有人受伤吗？
I said, no. And he's like, you really interrupted my meeting for that, Hyder?
我说，不。他说，你真的为此打扰了我的会议吗，海德？
I was like, I got ambushed.
我当时想，我被伏击了。
And it was really funny to see that nobody else thought it was that exciting or it was that incredible.
看到没有人认为它那么令人兴奋或那么令人难以置信，这真的很有趣。
Compared to what they had been through, it's relatively exciting but not as serious as, you know, interrupting a meeting.
与他们所经历的相比，这相对令人兴奋，但不像中断会议那么严重。
So that was really weird.
所以这真的很奇怪。
And then it all of a sudden hit me, I was like whoa yeah, that's true.
然后我突然意识到，哇，是的，这是真的。
Maybe it isn't such a big deal for my dad, or maybe for my uncle, who's seen a lot of that.
也许这对我父亲或我叔叔来说并不是什么大不了的事，因为他已经看过很多这样的事情了。
There's a helicopter above us who's patrolling because [INAUDIBLE] have been hit.
我们上方有一架直升机正在巡逻，因为[听不清]被击中了。
I guess they're trying to deter the missile attacks that have been happening lately.
我猜他们是想阻止最近发生的导弹袭击。
There are missile attacks, that's been happening.
有导弹袭击，这种事一直在发生。
It's about every night I've been here.
我来这里的每个晚上都是如此。
It's not the most helpful thing when you're trying to go to sleep.
当你想睡觉时，这并不是最有帮助的。
It's really rude of Al-Qaida.
基地组织真是无礼。
It'd be much more convenient if they would launch them at like 12:00 or 11:00 in the afternoon.
如果他们能在下午 12:00 或 11:00 左右推出就方便多了。
Like 12:00 noon.
比如中午12:00。
Because it doesn't last, it's not dangerous.
因为它不会持续，所以并不危险。
It's basically used to scare donors from coming in.
它基本上是用来吓唬捐助者进来的。
To scare NGOs from coming in.
吓唬非政府组织进来。
And to scare foreign aid money from coming in.
并吓唬外国援助资金进来。
And then that, it works, because they launch totally randomly, and it lands in some random ass field.
然后，它就起作用了，因为它们完全随机发射，然后落在某个随机的领域。
But you know, reports go back to Kabul, border trouble area of Kunar got three rockets launched at it last night.
但你知道，有报道传回喀布尔，库纳尔边境动乱地区昨晚遭到三枚火箭弹袭击。
And no overnight stay in Kunar for UN, and blah, blah, blah.
联合国也没有在库纳尔过夜，等等，等等。
I've been talking about the missile attacks that have been happening a lot lately.
我一直在谈论最近发生的多次导弹袭击。
And then there was one night where three rockets were launched within about a minute of each other, all towards the American base.
然后有一天晚上，三枚火箭在大约一分钟内相继发射，全部射向美国基地。
And names started coming up.
名字开始出现。
And one of the names was Abdul Wali, who is from our valley here.
其中一个名字是阿卜杜勒·瓦利（Abdul Wali），他来自我们这里的山谷。
And Abdul Wali's brother got in contact with my dad.
阿卜杜勒·瓦利的兄弟与我父亲取得了联系。
And we were really worried.
我们真的很担心。
They've heard all kinds of horror stories about what the Americans do.
他们听过各种有关美国人所作所为的恐怖故事。
And my dad talked to them and said, don't worry.
我爸爸对他们说，别担心。
I'll send my son personally with you to the American [UNINTELLIGIBLE] who will be there with you to translate, and talk to them.
我会亲自派我的儿子和你一起去见美国人[无法辨认]，他会和你一起在那里翻译，并与他们交谈。
So I took him to the Americans.
所以我带他去了美国人那里。
And like, they're asking him where he was 14 days ago, on the night of the three rockets.
就像，他们问他 14 天前，三枚火箭发射之夜他在哪里。
And this guy like, they don't have calendars, you know.
这个人喜欢，他们没有日历，你知道。
Somebody asks you where you were 14 days ago, you're not going to, especially if you didn't do anything, you're not going to be able to tell.
有人问你 14 天前你在哪里，你不会问，特别是如果你什么也没做，你就无法知道。
And they're like, oh no, you fired three rockets, how can you not know the night?
他们就像，哦不，你发射了三枚火箭，你怎么能不知道夜晚呢？
Three rockets fired where you were.
三枚火箭弹向你所在的地方发射。
And like, we already think you're lying.
就像，我们已经认为你在撒谎。
And your situation is getting worse by the minute.
而且你的情况每时每刻都在变得更糟。
It was hard to watch.
很难看。
I just put my hand on his shoulder, and I let him know.
我只是把手放在他的肩膀上，让他知道。
Just say the truth.
就说实话吧。
Nothing is going to happen if you just say the truth.
如果你只说实话，什么都不会发生。
And he was absolutely petrified, and he could barely whisper the OK.
他完全惊呆了，几乎无法低声说“好”。
And that was like my last words to him, and then I walked out.
这就是我对他说的最后一句话，然后我就走了出去。
And maybe, maybe I am wrong.
也许，也许我错了。
Maybe they do have very concrete evidence.
也许他们确实有非常具体的证据。
Or maybe, like last time, let me tell you about the last time, what happened.
或者也许，像上次一样，让我告诉你上次发生了什么。
There's a guy named Saleh Mohammed, OK.
有一个人叫萨利赫·穆罕默德，好吧。
This guy's house had been attacked a couple times by the Americans.
这家伙的房子曾被美国人袭击过几次。
Weapons, caches, everything looked for a couple times.
武器、储藏室，所有东西都找了好几遍。
His women searched, his kids harassed.
他的女人遭到搜查，他的孩子受到骚扰。
This guy was absolutely ashamed.
这家伙实在是羞愧难当。
He was ready to flee to Pakistan, just because the kind of shame that had been brought upon his family.
他准备逃往巴基斯坦，只是因为这给他的家人带来了耻辱。
It's a big deal here, to have that happen to you.
让这种事发生在你身上是件大事。
And my dad sent him a letter, saying, if you're innocent, prove your innocence and come down to the capitol.
我爸爸给他写了一封信，说，如果你是无辜的，就证明你的清白，然后到国会大厦来。
He was so grateful, and he came down to the capitol right away.
他非常感激，立刻就来到了京城。
And surely enough, three days later, Americans handed him back to my dad and said, do whatever you want to do with him.
果然，三天后，美国人把他交还给我爸爸，并说，你想对他做什么就做什么吧。
He's not a threat to us.
他对我们没有威胁。
And so the Americans had completely put him to shame.
所以美国人彻底让他蒙羞了。
Had him ready to flee into the Punjab, Pakistan, and become a later recruit for Al-Qaida.
让他准备好逃往巴基斯坦旁遮普邦，并成为后来的基地组织新成员。
All because of some bad information.
一切都是因为一些不良信息。
So you'd think maybe after something like that happens, they might hold their horses a little bit.
所以你可能会想，也许在发生类似的事情之后，他们可能会稍微镇定一下。
I just hope everything goes OK, but in due time, we'll find out.
我只希望一切顺利，但到了适当的时候，我们就会知道答案。
Probably in about three days.
大概三天左右吧。
I'm going to go to the American base to check up on him.
我要去美国基地看看他的情况。
Today, it's been a hectic day, to say the least.
今天，至少可以说是忙碌的一天。
Around I'd say, 5:30 or 6:00, a translator from the Americans come over.
大概是5:30或者6:00左右，一个美国人的翻译过来了。
And said that Steve wants to talk, and he wants to talk now.
并说史蒂夫想说话，他现在就想说话。
And he was wondering if you could come to the base.
他想知道你是否可以来基地。
So we got kind of worried, like, what could it be.
所以我们有点担心，比如，会发生什么。
Because usually they come to the palace, and say that they're waiting outside and if they could talk for a couple minutes.
因为通常他们来到宫殿后，会说他们在外面等，如果可以聊几分钟。
So this was the first time they wanted my dad to actually come there.
所以这是他们第一次希望我父亲真正来到那里。
So we arrived there.
所以我们到达了那里。
And we're waiting in the chair, me and my dad.
我和我爸爸在椅子上等着。
Steve and Dave arrive, they come in, exchange greetings, they sit down.
史蒂夫和戴夫到达，他们进来，互相问候，然后坐下。
And then they go, unfortunately, we have some bad news.
然后他们就走了，不幸的是，我们有一些坏消息。
So I'm thinking, oh man, what happened.
所以我在想，天哪，发生了什么事。
You know, is Abdul Wali not cooperating?
你知道吗，阿卜杜勒·瓦利不合作吗？
Or did he admit to having a part in the missile attacks?
还是他承认参与了导弹袭击？
What happened?
发生了什么？
And they're like, unfortunately, Abdul Wali passed away.
不幸的是，他们就像阿卜杜勒·瓦利去世了。
My jaw dropped.
我的下巴都掉下来了。
I said, oh my God.
我说，天啊。
And my dad was like, what?
我爸爸说，什么？
They said that, 3:30, 4:00, he just collapsed.
他们说，3点30分、4点00分，他就晕倒了。
And they tried to make him stand again.
他们试图让他重新站起来。
He stood for second, but then he fell again.
他获得了第二名，但随后又跌倒了。
And then they did the whole routine, with the CPR, and they said no expenses were held.
然后他们完成了整个例行程序，进行了心肺复苏，他们说没有保留任何费用。
And just like they would have treated an American life.
就像他们对待美国人的生活一样。
And then we went into like, the torture, and anything like that, and nothing like that was done.
然后我们就开始了类似的酷刑，以及类似的事情，但没有采取任何类似的措施。
He was being treated right, and given like power bars, and stuff like that.
他受到了正确的对待，并得到了像能量棒之类的东西。
He would put rocks in his mouth, but then they thought, maybe it's because he's used to chewing tobacco.
他会把石头放进嘴里，但后来他们想，也许是因为他习惯了嚼烟草。
He had tried to-- with the shackles that had binded his feet together-- try to break those.
他曾试图用将双脚绑在一起的脚镣来打破它们。
And he hit his head against the wall a couple times, trying to work with that.
他几次用头撞墙，试图解决这个问题。
And just for our sake, they wanted us to see the body to make sure nothing had happened to it.
为了我们的缘故，他们希望我们看到尸体，以确保它没有发生任何事情。
So we go see his body.
所以我们去看他的尸体。
His body was kept in his cell, or whatever it was.
他的尸体被保存在他的牢房里，或者其他什么地方。
And the cell was pretty bad condition, I have to be honest.
老实说，牢房的状况相当糟糕。
And inside, lay him with a sheet over his body.
他躺在里面，身上盖着一张床单。
It was extremely hot and damp.
天气非常炎热和潮湿。
And my dad took the towel off his face.
我爸爸把脸上的毛巾拿下来。
One of his eyes was open, the other was closed.
他的一只眼睛睁着，另一只眼睛闭着。
No marks on him.
他身上没有任何痕迹。
I touched his face.
我摸了摸他的脸。
I touched his chest.
我摸了摸他的胸口。
And he was dead.
他死了。
And it's like, this is extremely good propaganda for Al-Qaida, Taliban.
这就像，这对基地组织、塔利班来说是非常好的宣传。
Hey, guys.
嘿，伙计们。
Don't go to Americans.
别去美国人那里。
Don't listen to Said Fazel Akbar, or you'll end up like Abdul Wali.
不要听赛义德·法泽尔·阿克巴的话，否则你最终会像阿卜杜勒·瓦利一样。
Remember Abdul Wali.
记住阿卜杜勒·瓦利。
You are going to die like him, if you go to him.
如果你去找他，你就会像他一样死去。
So, so bad for us.
所以，这对我们来说太糟糕了。
But aside from politics, it just feels so personal for me.
但除了政治之外，这对我来说只是个人的感觉。
This guy was saying bye to me, like, make sure nothing happens to me.
这家伙正在跟我说再见，就像，确保我不会发生任何事情。
Like, the day before yesterday.
比如，前天。
And it's hard not to feel responsible.
很难不感到责任。
Poor guy was only 28.
可怜的家伙才28岁。
He was just so scared.
他只是太害怕了。
How did he die?
他是怎么死的？
That was not how it's supposed to happen.
事情不应该这样发生。
After his death, they were ready to do an autopsy to investigate.
他死后，他们准备进行尸检进行调查。
The people there of course, they don't know what an autopsy is.
那里的人当然不知道尸检是什么。
It would probably be the worst thing you can do, if they brought him back and he had cuts opened up in him, then sewn back together.
如果他们把他带回来并且他身上有伤口，然后又缝合在一起，这可能是你能做的最糟糕的事情。
They're like, oh wow yeah, this is how he died, they just cut him up right through the middle.
他们就像，哦，哇，是的，他就是这样死的，他们只是把他从中间切开。
But there was even a lawyer from Washington there.
但那里甚至还有一位来自华盛顿的律师。
And that's when I realized that it was a much bigger deal than I had thought of before.
就在那时我意识到这比我之前想象的要重要得多。
And I'm probably one of very few civilians to have witnessed an interrogation of a suspected terrorist by US forces.
我可能是目睹美军审讯恐怖分子嫌疑人的极少数平民之一。
His death has barely been reported in the Western press.
西方媒体几乎没有报道他的死讯。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar [TRANSLATING] What has been your most difficult day being the governor of Kunar so far?
[说外语] Hyder Akbar [翻译] 作为库纳尔州长，迄今为止最困难的一天是哪一天？
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Hyder Akbar [TRANSLATING] If I had to choose one day as being my most difficult day, it would have to be the day that Abdul Wali died.
[说外语] Hyder Akbar [翻译] 如果我必须选择某一天作为我最困难的一天，那一定是阿卜杜勒·瓦利去世的那一天。
American forces were ready to use military force to capture this person.
美军准备动用武力抓捕此人。
And I told them to please hold on and let me try and get a hold of him myself.
我告诉他们请坚持住，让我尝试亲自联系他。
And since this man trusted me, and since they trusted our family name, the man did arrive to Kunar, and did turn himself into us.
由于这个人信任我，并且由于他们信任我们的姓氏，所以这个人确实到达了库纳尔，并且确实将自己变成了我们。
He claimed his innocence, but he was incredibly fearful of what the Americans might do to him.
他声称自己是无辜的，但他非常担心美国人可能会对他做什么。
And since he was so fearful, I sent you along to prove to him that there's no trouble.
既然他这么害怕，我就派你去向他证明没有麻烦。
And that I'll send my own son with you as a sign of trust.
我会派我自己的儿子和你一起去，以示信任。
And so, his family told us later on, and his brother told us, also, that he did have heart problems.
因此，他的家人后来告诉我们，他的兄弟也告诉我们，他确实有心脏问题。
But this was such a difficult day to me, because of all the backup I have received, of all of the support I have received from the people of Kunar, this did leave a dent in it.
但这对我来说是非常艰难的一天，因为我收到了库纳尔人民的所有支持，这确实给我留下了深刻的印象。
Because people were more hesitant now to come to me.
因为人们现在更加犹豫是否来找我。
What you hear in the background is actually a tap dancer.
您在背景中听到的实际上是踢踏舞者的声音。
It's a tradition in Kunar.
这是库纳尔的传统。
They tap dance.
他们跳踢踏舞。
And you can hear it off in the distance, tap dancing in the cement outside.
你可以听到远处传来外面水泥地上跳踢踏舞的声音。
[LAUGHTER] I'm totally kidding.
[笑声]我完全是在开玩笑。
That's the fan rattling above me.
那是我头顶上嘎嘎作响的风扇。
It just sounds like somebody's tap dancing [UNINTELLIGIBLE] off in the distance.
听起来就像有人在远处跳踢踏舞[难以辨认]。
But it's actually the fan.
但实际上是粉丝。
There's no tap dancing experts in Kunar yet.
库纳尔还没有踢踏舞专家。
I'll be going to Bajaur tomorrow.
明天我要去巴焦尔。
Bajaur is on Pakistan's side of the border.
巴焦尔位于巴基斯坦边境一侧。
I'm going there tomorrow because that's actually where my uncle lives.
我明天要去那里，因为那实际上是我叔叔住的地方。
Like that's where his home is.
好像那里就是他的家一样。
He has a 35 room basically fort, along with his five brothers.
他和他的五个兄弟一起拥有一座 35 个房间的堡垒。
I'll be going there tomorrow, probably spend a couple nights there.
我明天会去那里，可能会在那里住几个晚上。
I'm at my uncle's guest house.
我在我叔叔的招待所。
And he's going to get out in about a minute, and we're going to have a quick tour of his house.
他大约一分钟后就会出去，我们将快速参观一下他的房子。
OK, mama's out.
好吧，妈妈出去了。
We're about to leave the guest house, and enter like the main house.
我们即将离开宾馆，像主屋一样进入。
It's a huge room.
这是一个很大的房间。
Tall ceilings, basically like the garage.
高高的天花板，基本上就像车库一样。
This is where they store all the foods in like huge sacks.
他们把所有的食物都像大袋子一样储存在那里。
And they actually have our old bags here, too.
他们实际上也有我们的旧包。
When we went to America, in '87, we gave them some things to keep.
87 年我们去美国时，我们给了他们一些东西让他们保留。
And they still have them in here.
他们还把它们留在这里。
And you come out here.
然后你就出来了。
Let me just count how many kids are around me right now.
让我数一下我周围现在有多少个孩子。
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 walked out of that corner.
1、2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16从那个角落里走了出来。
17.
17.
I just counted 17 of them.
我刚刚数了一下，有17个。
Like little, little kids.
就像小孩子一样。
Basically this is where they get their water from, they store it in a tank, and then pour it into buckets and stuff and carry it around.
基本上，他们就是从这里获取水的，将水储存在水箱中，然后倒入桶中并随身携带。
OK, we're going to enter another place now.
好，我们现在要进入另一个地方了。
This is the first time I met mama's wife, she's sitting here.
这是我第一次见到妈妈的妻子，她坐在这里。
This is mama's room.
这是妈妈的房间。
This is his personal room, this is where he sleeps.
这是他的私人房间，这是他睡觉的地方。
My uncle is just about the toughest person you'll ever meet.
我叔叔是你见过的最坚强的人。
I mean, I don't want to speculate the number of people he's probably killed.
我的意思是，我不想猜测他可能杀了多少人。
Or the number of times he's almost been killed.
或者说他差点被杀的次数。
Or the number of times he's been, you know, wounded during the war.
或者你知道，他在战争期间受伤的次数。
Like there's really small pieces of shrapnel like, they almost look like crumbs, that are just some places in his body.
就像有非常小的弹片一样，它们看起来几乎像面包屑，那只是他身体的某些地方。
The other day, one of them was coming out of his forehead.
有一天，其中一个从他的额头上冒了出来。
He was like, hey Hyder, can you help me here.
他说，嘿海德，你能帮我吗？
I'm like yeah, sure.
我想是的，当然。
There's like something coming out here.
这里好像有什么东西要出来。
Check it out.
一探究竟。
I checked it out and pulled, it was like a little metal piece.
我检查了一下，拉了一下，它就像一个小金属片。
He said, oh, I think it's shrapnel, can you help me pull it out?
他说，哦，我想是弹片，你能帮我把它拔出来吗？
I've been working on it for three days, it's slowly coming out of my skin.
我已经为此努力了三天，它慢慢地从我的皮肤中显现出来。
A funny story, the other day, there was a kitten.
一个有趣的故事，有一天，有一只小猫。
And my uncle saw it.
我叔叔看到了。
And he's like, oh, look at that kitten.
他就像，哦，看看那只小猫。
It's ran away from home or something.
是离家出走了什么的。
He's like, I think we should go get it some milk.
他说，我想我们应该去买点牛奶。
And the soldiers are like looking around, like giggling with each other, like what the hell.
而士兵们就像环顾四周，就像互相咯咯地笑，就像见鬼的一样。
Is this Mullah Rauf?
这是毛拉·劳夫吗？
And he told his soldiers, go get some milk, man!
他告诉他的士兵，去拿点牛奶吧，伙计！
Hurry up!
赶快！
And so they ran to go get some milk.
于是他们跑去买牛奶。
He brought the milk, and he brought this like little plate.
他带来了牛奶，还带来了这个像小盘子一样的东西。
And he poured it himself.
而且是他自己倒的。
And he was like, [KISSING NOISES] towards the kitten to have some of the milk.
他就像是，[亲吻声音]朝小猫喝一些牛奶。
And it was the absolutely funniest thing to watch this guy with this big ass beard, and one eye, and metal coming out of his forehead, like, asking this kitten to get some milk.
看着这个留着大胡子、一只眼睛、额头上冒出金属的家伙，就像在要求这只小猫喝点牛奶，这绝对是最有趣的事情。
Now I'm going to go ahead and interview my uncle.
现在我要去采访我叔叔了。
Because he's really had a life that's pretty much unimaginable.
因为他确实过着难以想象的生活。
And now-- whoop.
现在——哎呀。
You just heard the light go out.
你刚刚听到灯灭了。
You didn't hear the lights go out, we heard the electricity break down.
你没有听到灯灭的声音，我们听到的是停电的声音。
The fence turned off.
栅栏关闭了。
It's going to be really hot now.
现在会非常热。
So I just want to give a little history of why he came here, and why he became a refugee in Pakistan.
所以我只想简单介绍一下他为什么来到这里，以及为什么他成为巴基斯坦的难民。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Mullah Rauf [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
[说外语]毛拉·劳夫 [说外语]
[TRANSLATING] This is probably around 1980.
[翻译] 这大概是 1980 年左右。
These Russians came with these bulletproof vests on.
这些俄罗斯人穿着防弹背心来了。
And at that time, we didn't know what they were.
那时，我们不知道它们是什么。
I started shooting at them, emptied like all 30 of my bullets into him.
我开始向他们开枪，把 30 颗子弹全部打到了他身上。
And all they'd do is just make a scream, like odd noise, and push back a little.
他们所做的只是发出一声尖叫，就像奇怪的声音，然后向后退一点。
He says it wouldn't penetrate them at all.
他说它根本不会穿透他们。
And he said, it totally spooked me out.
他说，这完全把我吓坏了。
And so he said we went home and we decided that these new kinds of Soviets, they are going to create problems for us.
所以他说我们回家了，我们决定这些新型苏联人会给我们带来问题。
Not even bullets can penetrate them.
就连子弹也无法穿透它们。
So we decided to come to Pakistan, and become refugees in Pakistan.
所以我们决定来巴基斯坦，成为巴基斯坦的难民。
And at first, he said, we came here in tents.
他说，一开始我们是带着帐篷来到这里的。
And we lived in tents for a while.
我们在帐篷里住了一段时间。
Then slowly, slowly, we started building these houses.
然后慢慢地、慢慢地，我们开始建造这些房子。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Mullah Rauf [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
[说外语]毛拉·劳夫 [说外语]
My uncle started writing with himself, I'm like what are you writing?
我叔叔开始自言自语，我问你在写什么？
And he told me this last year, too.
他去年也告诉过我这一点。
He's like, I have a really hard time writing this number.
他说，我真的很难写这个数字。
He can't write five in English, so he was practicing that with himself right now, when I was translating this in English.
他不会用英语写“五”，所以当我用英语翻译这个时，他正在自己练习。
He said, I have a hard time writing down five and four in English.
他说，我很难用英语写下五和四。
These fives seem fine.
这五个看起来不错。
I think I'm going to keep this.
我想我会保留这个。
The fan turned back on.
风扇又打开了。
So one more question I'm going to ask is, I think between the resistance and the Taliban times and everything, what was one of the hardest moments of his life?
所以我要问的另一个问题是，我认为在抵抗运动和塔利班时代以及一切之间，他一生中最艰难的时刻之一是什么？
And he said, when one of our guys was shot on the road and died right there.
他说，当我们的一个人在路上被枪杀并当场死亡时。
I picked him up on my back.
我把他抱在背上。
And it was bitter, bitter cold in the mountains.
而且山上的天气非常寒冷。
And finally, he said, I managed to find a really small mosque in the middle of nowhere.
最后，他说，我设法在偏僻的地方找到了一座很小的清真寺。
He says, I went in there with him.
他说，我和他一起进去的。
And there was a really small bed.
还有一张非常小的床。
He said, I laid the dead body there.
他说，我把尸体放在那里。
And I was laying on the floor next to him, trying to get an hour or two sleep, because it had been my third night without sleep.
我躺在他旁边的地板上，试图睡一两个小时，因为这是我第三个晚上没有睡觉。
And boom, right there, a big hole in the ceiling cracked.
砰，就在那里，天花板上裂了一个大洞。
Because it was hailing really bad.
因为冰雹实在是太厉害了。
And he said soon the mosque started filling up.
他说清真寺很快就开始挤满了人。
And it got to the point where it was up to my thighs.
而且已经到了我的大腿了。
Eventually, I had to go.
最终，我不得不走。
And I laid down next to the dead body.
我躺在尸体旁边。
My clothes got bloodied, and I started to smell.
我的衣服沾满了血，我开始闻起来。
But I had no choice.
但我别无选择。
It was my third night without sleep.
这是我第三个没有睡觉的晚上。
And he was a good friend of mine, he says.
他说，他是我的好朋友。
Same age.
同岁。
We were fighting and just hours ago, he was with me.
我们正在吵架，就在几个小时前，他还和我在一起。
He says that was his hardest day.
他说那是他最艰难的一天。
[WHISPERING] This is probably going to be my last recording.
[耳语] 这可能是我最后一次录音。
It's probably about 1:00 at night right now.
现在大概是晚上 1:00 左右。
I couldn't sleep tonight.
今晚我无法入睡。
It's because, I couldn't say anything at that time because, you know, it's my uncle, but that interview was so emotional.
因为，我当时什么也说不出来，因为，你知道，那是我叔叔，但那次采访太激动了。
When I asked him what was the hardest part ever, of everything you've been through, he mentioned having to sleep next to his friend just hours after he was killed.
当我问他在你所经历的一切中最困难的部分是什么时，他提到在他的朋友被杀几个小时后，他不得不睡在他旁边。
And the hail pouring down on him, and him trembling in that cold.
冰雹倾盆而下，他在寒冷中瑟瑟发抖。
One of the reasons I wanted to interview my uncle before I left was because I knew it was going to really have a lasting impression on me.
我想在离开之前采访我叔叔的原因之一是因为我知道这会给我留下深刻的印象。
And just in case I ever get soft, and I get like, you know, maybe I should just stay in America, or maybe, you know.
以防万一我变得软弱，我会想，你知道，也许我应该留在美国，或者也许，你知道。
That image of him having to do that will at least keep me going for another five years.
他必须这样做的形象至少会让我再坚持五年。
We have a really close relationship.
我们的关系非常密切。
I mean it's to the point where sometimes I accidentally call him dad.
我的意思是，有时候我会不小心叫他爸爸。
That's how close we are.
这就是我们的亲密程度。
And he really has high hopes for me.
而且他确实对我寄予厚望。
And he tells me all the time that he thinks I'm so smart, and that I'm going to do so much for this country.
他一直告诉我，他认为我很聪明，我将为这个国家做很多事情。
And, it's just, he's been through so much.
而且，只是，他经历了太多。
I can't let all that just go in vain.
我不能让这一切都白费。
I want him to see an Afghanistan moving forward.
我希望他看到阿富汗不断前进。
Because of anybody, he deserves to see it.
因为任何人，他都值得看到。
And I can't even begin to explain how much respect and how much I admire him.
我什至无法解释我是多么尊重和钦佩他。
Despite all he's been through, he's just about the nicest guy you'll ever meet.
尽管他经历了这一切，他仍然是你见过的最好的人。
He still can't walk past a kitten, you know.
你知道，他仍然无法走过一只小猫。
That's incredible.
那真是难以置信。
To have that big of a heart.
要有这么大的心。
Because it does make you rough.
因为它确实会让你变得粗暴。
And it does harden you.
它确实让你变得坚强。
But this guy hasn't been hardened at all.
但这家伙根本就没有硬起来。
One of my dreams is somehow to get my uncle a visa, and take him on a trip to America.
我的梦想之一就是为我叔叔办理签证，并带他去美国旅行。
You know, take him to Vegas.
你知道，带他去维加斯。
That's one of the things.
这是其中之一。
If anybody deserves to just lose himself for a weekend in Vegas, it's my uncle.
如果有人值得在维加斯度过一个周末，那就是我叔叔。
To have some fun, to relax.
去享受一些乐趣，放松一下。
Hopefully, by next year I'll be able to take him.
希望明年我能带他去。
Despite everything, I'm going to be pulled back here, I know it.
不管怎样，我还是会被拉回到这里，我知道。
I just can't-- I just can't do it any other way.
我就是不能——我就是不能以任何其他方式做到这一点。
I can't let my uncle down.
我不能让叔叔失望。
Hyder Akbar.
海德·阿克巴.
He's now 20 years old, a junior at Yale University.
他今年20岁，是耶鲁大学大三学生。
His recordings were produced for radio by Susan Burton, with funding from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
他的录音由苏珊·伯顿在公共广播公司的资助下为广播制作。
Susan and Hyder have also just published a book, based in part on the two radio documentaries they did for our program.
苏珊和海德也刚刚出版了一本书，部分基于他们为我们的节目制作的两部广播纪录片。
It's called, Come Back to Afghanistan.
这就是所谓的“回到阿富汗”。
It's funny, it's charming, it is unnerving and eye-opening and completely unlike anything else on the subject.
它很有趣，很迷人，既令人不安又令人大开眼界，并且完全不同于该主题的其他内容。
One footnote to Hyder's story.
海德故事的一个脚注。
About six months after we first broadcast today's program, back in 2003, that man that Hyder took to be interrogated, Abdul Wali, the one who died while being interrogated by US forces, he became international news.
早在 2003 年，我们首次播出今天的节目大约六个月后，海德带去审讯的那个人阿卜杜勒·瓦利（Abdul Wali）就成了国际新闻。
It turns out the US government concluded that he may not have died of a heart attack, as Hyder was told.
事实证明，美国政府得出的结论是，他可能并非如海德被告知的那样死于心脏病。
The American, who Hyder refers to as Dave in the story, was in fact a CIA contractor named David Passaro, and was indicted by the US Justice Department on charges of assault in the case.
海德在故事中将这名美国人称为戴夫，实际上是中央情报局的一名承包商，名叫戴维·帕萨罗，并在此案中被美国司法部指控袭击罪。
Passaro allegedly beat Wali with a large flashlight.
据称帕萨罗用大手电筒殴打瓦利。
He claims his innocence.
他声称自己无罪。
Pictures of Abdul Wali's corpse showed bruises on his back that Hyder and his dad never saw.
阿卜杜勒·瓦利尸体的照片显示，他的背上有海德和他父亲从未见过的瘀伤。
Passaro's trial is scheduled to begin in federal court in Raleigh, North Carolina, in December.
帕萨罗的审判定于 12 月在北卡罗来纳州罗利的联邦法院开始。
He is the first civilian charged with prisoner abuse in Afghanistan and Iraq.
他是第一位在阿富汗和伊拉克被指控虐待囚犯的平民。
Three members of the 82nd Airborne saw the whole thing and are reportedly willing to testify against Passaro.
第 82 空降师的三名成员目睹了整个过程，据报道愿意出庭指证帕萨罗。
Hyder's been told that he might be called to testify as well.
海德被告知他也可能被传唤出庭作证。
In March of this past year, the military said that its own investigations indicated that 26 prisoners have died of criminal homicide while in US captivity, including Abdul Wali.
去年3月，军方表示，其自己的调查显示，包括阿卜杜勒·瓦利在内的26名囚犯在美国关押期间死于刑事杀人罪。
Special thanks today to Hyder's parents and brother, Nadera Akbar, Said Fazel Akbar, and Omar Akbar.
今天特别感谢海德的父母和兄弟纳德拉·阿克巴尔 (Nadera Akbar)、赛义德·法泽尔·阿克巴尔 (Said Fazel Akbar) 和奥马尔·阿克巴尔 (Omar Akbar)。
And to Sartore, and his uncle Rauf.
还有萨托和他的叔叔拉乌夫。
Also thanks to [?
也感谢[?
Dmitry Shub.
德米特里·舒布.
?] Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org, where you can listen to the first of the two documentaries that Hyder did for our program a few years back.
?] 我们的网站，www.thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中收听海德几年前为我们的节目制作的两部纪录片中的第一部。
Or to this show, or to any of our shows, for absolutely free.
或者观看这个节目，或者观看我们的任何节目，都是完全免费的。
Or you can buy CDs.
或者您可以购买 CD。
Or you know you can download today's program in our archives at audible.com/thisamericanlife.
或者您知道可以在我们的档案库中下载今天的节目：audible.com/thisamericanlife。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who explains why it is so hard getting objective journalism on to the public radio station that he manages.
[资金来源] Torey Malatia 先生对 WBEZ 项目进行管理监督，他解释了为什么他管理的公共广播电台很难获得客观的新闻报道。
Professional people here are the communists that were trained by the Russians.
这里的专业人士都是俄罗斯人培养出来的共产党员。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。