251: Brother’s Keeper - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #251 | November 21, 2003 251: Brother’s Keeper Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 251 集 | 2003 年 11 月 21 日 251：《兄弟的守护者》 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass It's a simple story.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这是一个简单的故事。
Cain kills Abel.
该隐杀了亚伯。
God comes around and asks him, where's your brother?
上帝走过来问他，你的兄弟在哪里？
He replies, am I my brother's keeper?
他回答说，我是我兄弟的守护者吗？
Then God punishes him for what he's done.
然后上帝会因他所做的事而惩罚他。
If there's a lesson in here about how we're supposed to treat each other, and look out for each other.
如果这里有一个关于我们应该如何对待彼此并互相照顾的教训。
The lesson is so broad that it's almost useless.
这个教训太广泛了，几乎毫无用处。
Yes, it says, you are your brother's keeper, to the extent that you shouldn't actually murder your own brother.
是的，它说，你是你兄弟的守护者，以至于你不应该真正谋杀你自己的兄弟。
It's not until later in the Bible that you get into more practical, everyday kind of instructions.
直到圣经的后面部分，你才会了解更实用、更日常的指示。
To lend your neighbors money in hard times.
在困难时期借钱给邻居。
Give them a place to stay if they need it.
如果他们需要的话，给他们一个住的地方。
To love your neighbor as yourself.
爱人如己。
The story of Cain and Abel is kind of a blunt instrument.
该隐和亚伯的故事有点生硬。
A guy misjudges what he should do.
一个人错误地判断了他应该做什么。
And then someone dies.
然后有人死了。
It's the first death in the Bible.
这是圣经中第一次死亡。
Abel is the first person to die.
亚伯是第一个死去的人。
And it's because his brother screwed up.
也是因为他弟弟搞砸了。
But today on our program we have three stories of people trying to figure out how to treat their brothers, and their neighbors, and whether they should step in to help.
但今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了三个故事，人们试图弄清楚如何对待他们的兄弟和邻居，以及他们是否应该介入提供帮助。
Trying to figure out if stepping in would do anyone any good at all.
试图弄清楚介入是否会对任何人有任何好处。
WBEZ Chicago, this is This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是《美国生活》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our program today, Brother's Keeper.
我们今天的节目是《兄弟的守护者》。
Biblical stories ripped from the day's headlines.
圣经故事从当天的头条新闻中摘录出来。
Act One, Whatever Happened to Baby Cain?
第一幕，小该隐发生了什么？
In that act, Jonathan Goldstein re-tells the story of Cain and Abel.
在那一幕中，乔纳森·戈德斯坦重新讲述了该隐和亚伯的故事。
Finally, we get to hear Cain's side of things.
最后，我们听到了该隐的观点。
Act Two, This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land.
第二幕，这片土地是你的土地，这片土地是我的土地。
Or Maybe Not.
或者也许不是。
We hear the story of somebody trying to help all sorts of people who absolutely do not want his help.
我们听到这样的故事：有人试图帮助各种绝对不需要他帮助的人。
Act Three, Neighbor's Keeper.
第三幕，邻居的守护者。
In that act, could anyone in a small farming town have done anything to prevent a brutal crime committed by one of their neighbors.
在这一行为中，一个农业小镇上的任何人都可以采取任何措施来阻止邻居犯下的残酷犯罪行为。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
One of our contributing editors here at This American Life, Jonathan Goldstein, has taken on as his latest project rewriting the Bible.
《美国生活》的特约编辑之一乔纳森·戈德斯坦 (Jonathan Goldstein) 承担了重写圣经的最新项目。
Regular listeners to our show may remember his retelling of the story of Adam and Eve a few months back.
我们节目的常客可能还记得几个月前他重述了亚当和夏娃的故事。
To tell this story of Cain and Abel, he pretty much picks up the tale where he left off.
为了讲述该隐和亚伯的故事，他几乎从他停下来的地方继续讲故事。
On their first night outside the Garden of Eden, it was windy and cold, and the air was full of whistling.
他们离开伊甸园的第一个晚上，风很大，很冷，空气中充满了呼啸声。
They scraped at the tree trunks, and dug their fingers into the earth.
他们刮着树干，把手指挖进土里。
At the top of their voices, Adam and Eve called out to God.
亚当和夏娃大声呼求上帝。
We get it, they screamed.
我们明白了，他们尖叫起来。
You've made your point.
你已经表达了你的观点。
To fend off the cold, they hugged each other with all of their might.
为了抵御寒冷，他们用尽全力拥抱在一起。
They thought about all of the things God had said in his wrath.
他们思考了神在愤怒中所说的一切。
How a little human would one day tear his way out of Eve.
有一天，一个小小的人类会如何从夏娃身上挣脱出来。
How they would no longer live forever, but would one day die.
他们将不再永远活着，而是有一天会死去。
These thoughts made them colder.
这些念头让他们的心情变得更加寒冷。
They slept face to face, pressed so tightly together, that the bones in their noses hurt.
他们面对面睡，紧紧地靠在一起，鼻子里的骨头都疼。
Later, they would learn to make clothing.
后来，他们学会了制作衣服。
But just then, all they had was each other.
但就在那时，他们的一切就只剩下彼此了。
Nine months after that first night, this would change.
第一个晚上九个月后，这种情况将会改变。
In the beginning, in the garden, the baby was supposed to be a surprise, appearing as suddenly as a sneeze.
起初，在花园里，婴儿的出现就像打喷嚏一样突然，本该是一个惊喜。
The way God intended it, two people in love would share a like-minded pretty thought.
正如上帝的意图，两个相爱的人会分享一个志同道合的美好想法。
And there it would be, a baby nesting in a tree above their heads.
就在那里，一个婴儿在他们头顶的树上筑巢。
But the way God intended it, did not pan out.
但上帝的旨意并没有实现。
On the night their child was born, Eve was asleep, dreaming about the ocean.
他们的孩子出生的那天晚上，夏娃睡着了，梦见了大海。
She was swimming beneath it, breathing in the water like it was air.
她在水下游泳，像呼吸空气一样呼吸着水。
Very carefully, she climbed onto a shark, and rode him.
她非常小心地爬到一条鲨鱼身上，骑在他身上。
I am actually doing it, she thought.
我确实在这么做，她想。
Then the shark turned and bit off her lower body.
然后鲨鱼转身咬掉了她的下半身。
Eve awoke suddenly.
伊芙猛然惊醒。
She had begun to give birth.
她已经开始生产了。
Adam hopped from foot to foot as Eve felt the pain crush her into the earth.
当夏娃感到疼痛将她压入地下时，亚当从一只脚跳到另一只脚。
Yes, this was the baby, and the baby was attached to a vine.
是的，这就是婴儿，而且婴儿附着在藤蔓上。
After a few days, despite their great care, the vine wore away, and baby Cain was freed into the world.
几天后，尽管他们精心照料，藤蔓还是消失了，婴儿该隐被释放到了这个世界。
At the time of her second birth, there wasn't the same stage fright.
在她第二次出生时，没有同样的怯场。
Eve knew the drill.
伊芙知道该怎么做。
She laid herself on the ground, and grabbed two fistfuls of grass.
她躺在地上，抓起两把草。
Six and a half hours later, Abel was born.
六个半小时后，亚伯出生了。
They called Cain over to meet his new brother.
他们叫该隐去见他的新兄弟。
They placed the baby in his arms.
他们把婴儿放在他怀里。
The baby was slippery, and Cain lost his grip.
婴儿很滑，该隐失去了抓握的能力。
Abel fell.
亚伯倒下了。
He lay on the ground, looking up at his brother.
他躺在地上，抬头看着弟弟。
He did not cry.
他没有哭。
Abel could not be rattled.
阿贝尔不能惊慌。
Back in those first days, things changed very quickly.
回到最初的日子，事情变化得很快。
A new person being born meant there was a giant spike in the population.
新人的诞生意味着人口数量的大幅增加。
For Cain, it made the planet feel lopsided.
对于该隐来说，这让这个星球感觉不平衡。
He watched Eve bounce the newborn in her lap, and as she cooed at it, he felt the earth's gravity tilt in their direction.
他看着夏娃把新生儿抱在腿上，当她咕咕地叫着时，他感觉到地球的重力向他们的方向倾斜。
It pulled at the insides of his stomach, and made him sea-sick.
它拉扯着他的胃内部，让他晕船。
Years later, Adam and Eve would have many more children.
多年后，亚当和夏娃有了更多的孩子。
But just then, there was only Cain and Abel.
但就在那时，只有该隐和亚伯。
Because there was simply nobody else, the brothers became very close.
因为没有其他人，兄弟俩变得非常亲密。
They invented their own language and played each other's stomachs like snare drums.
他们发明了自己的语言，像军鼓一样敲打着彼此的胃。
They butted their heads like goats, and cracked each other's knuckles as though they were cracking their own.
他们像山羊一样用头相撞，互相敲响对方的指关节，就像敲响自己的指关节一样。
They were different, though.
但他们是不同的。
Abel was a thinker.
亚伯是一位思想家。
He thought about things.
他思考着一些事情。
If he bit off his own pinky toe, would it grow back?
如果他咬掉自己的小脚趾，它还会再长出来吗？
Cain on the other hand was a doer.
另一方面，该隐是一个实干家。
He'd reel back his fist and break a donkey's nose for the sheer thrill of it all.
为了纯粹的刺激，他会收回拳头，打断驴鼻子。
One day, when Adam and Eve thought the children were old enough, they sat them down and told the story of what life was like before they were born.
有一天，亚当和夏娃认为孩子们已经足够大了，他们让他们坐下来，讲述他们出生前的生活故事。
"In those days, God was like one of the family," said Adam.
“在那些日子里，上帝就像家庭中的一员，”亚当说。
Eve told Cain and Abel about the screw-up.
夏娃把这件事告诉了该隐和亚伯。
"What does it mean to die?", asked Cain.
“死意味着什么？”该隐问道。
"We're not exactly sure," said Eve.
“我们不太确定，”伊芙说。
"But basically, it means that one day-- and this is not any day soon-- we will no longer be.
“但基本上，这意味着有一天——而且不是很快的一天——我们将不再是。
"
”
There was a silence.
一阵沉默。
Then Abel spoke up.
然后亚伯开口了。
"If we won't be," he said, "then we won't even know that we're not being.
“如果我们不存在，”他说，“那么我们甚至不知道我们不存在。
There will be no we to see that we can no longer be."
我们将不再能看到我们。”
"Yes, I guess that's true," said their mother.
“是的，我想这是真的，”他们的母亲说。
"Well put." Abel smiled and went back to mashing a mutton liver, which he was making into pate for later.
“说得好。”亚伯笑了笑，继续捣碎羊肝，稍后他会把羊肝做成肉酱。
Cain on the other hand, felt like a sharp plum pit had been forcefully lodged down his throat.
而该隐则感觉喉咙里像是被强行塞进了一个锋利的李子核。
All his life, he had felt like himself.
他一生都感觉自己就是他自己。
That his hands and fingers, that his thoughts, were his own.
他的手和手指，他的思想，都是他自己的。
Now he felt like they were someone else's.
现在他感觉他们是别人的了。
Someone who could yank them away at any chosen moment.
一个可以在任何选定的时刻将他们拉走的人。
Until then, it had never crossed his mind that such a thing could be possible.
在那之前，他从来没想过会有这样的事情。
The brothers continued to live their lives.
兄弟俩继续过着自己的生活。
But all the while, Cain felt a new sadness.
但一直以来，该隐都感到一种新的悲伤。
It was there all the time.
它一直都在那里。
It ate with him, worked with him, and in the morning it raised from his bed with him.
它和他一起吃饭，和他一起工作，早上它和他一起从床上起来。
Dying.
快死了。
It just didn't make any sense.
这根本没有任何意义。
He knew this deep in his heart.
他内心深处知道这一点。
He thought nothing was more important than making God change his mind.
他认为没有什么比让上帝改变主意更重要的了。
Nothing.
没有什么。
He began to take his sacrifices more seriously.
他开始更加认真地对待自己的牺牲。
They became elaborate and garish.
它们变得精致而花哨。
They involved richly choreographed interpretive dances, colorful oblong facial masks, and the very best of his legumes.
其中包括精心编排的解释性舞蹈、色彩缤纷的长方形面具以及他最好的豆类。
But God never answered.
但上帝从未回应。
Cain started to change.
该隐开始改变。
When he got a splinter, he cursed the heavens all out of proportion.
当他得到一根碎片时，他不成比例地咒骂着上天。
"Back in the garden of Eden, there were no splinters," Cain said to Abel.
“回到伊甸园，没有任何碎片，”该隐对亚伯说。
"Instead of splinters, they had trees that sprouted [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and home fries." He even started to resent his parents.
“他们没有碎片，而是发芽的树[难以辨认]和自制薯条。”他甚至开始怨恨自己的父母。
He spoke of them as though they had gambled away his inheritance.
他说起他们就好像他们赌上了他的遗产。
"If it hadn't have been for Ignoramus number one, tempting Ignoramus number two, we'd be living in luxury." Cain tried to get Able all worked up about the whole thing too.
“如果没有一号无知者，没有诱惑二号无知者，我们就会过着奢侈的生活。”凯恩也试图让亚伯对整件事感到兴奋。
But Abel had an easy come, easy go, we all have to die someday attitude.
但亚伯有一种来得容易，去得也快的态度，“我们总有一天都会死去”。
That drove his brother crazy.
这让他的兄弟发疯了。
As long as he had his sheep, as long as he could rub his naked feet through their wool, Abel felt that things were really not so bad.
只要还有他的羊，只要他能用自己的赤脚在羊的毛里蹭来蹭去，亚伯就觉得事情还真没有那么糟糕。
Cain invented a game he called, Get the Hell Out of Eden.
凯恩发明了一款游戏，他称之为“逃离伊甸园”。
He always insisted on playing God.
他始终坚持扮演上帝。
"Get your naked asses out of here," yelled God.
“把你们这些光秃秃的屁股滚出去，”上帝喊道。
"What?
“什么？
But we just got here!", yelled Adam and Eve.
但我们才到这里！”亚当和夏娃喊道。
"Maybe there's some kind of mistake."
“也许有什么错误。”
"The Lord does not make mistakes." God would then kick his brother in the ass.
“主不会犯错误的。”然后上帝就会踢他兄弟的屁股。
He would fall to the ground and, holding his ass say, "Please, please have mercy on me.
他会倒在地上，抱着自己的屁股说：“请怜悯我。
Let's play something else." And God would laugh.
我们玩点别的吧。”上帝会笑的。
Now that he was older, every week Abel would choose the fattest, firstborn sheep, and sacrifice them to God.
现在他长大了，每周亚伯都会选择最肥的、头生的羊，并将它们献给上帝。
Everything Abel did in life was for a reason.
亚伯一生中所做的一切都是有原因的。
He ate so that he would not be hungry.
他吃东西是为了不饿。
He made clothes so that he would not be cold.
他做了衣服，这样他就不会冷了。
But making sacrifices to God, he did it for reasons he could never know.
但他向上帝做出牺牲的原因却是他永远不知道的。
He did it simply because he was told to.
他这样做只是因为他被告知这样做。
There was something about that, that made him feel clean and deep.
这让他感觉干净而深刻。
Adam and Eve made the sacrifices out of fear of being further punished.
亚当和夏娃出于害怕受到进一步惩罚而做出了牺牲。
And Cain was pleading for answers and changes.
该隐恳求答案和改变。
But Abel fulfilled his obligation, and walked away expecting nothing from God.
但亚伯履行了他的义务，离开时没有期望从神那里得到任何东西。
He was glad with the way things were.
他对现状很满意。
And God could not have helped liking that.
上帝也无法不喜欢这样。
Meanwhile, Cain decided to test out a new approach with the Lord.
与此同时，该隐决定尝试一种与主相处的新方法。
He believed that God would have greater respect for him if he did not kowtow.
他相信，如果他不磕头，上帝会更加尊重他。
"He's going to kill us," he thought.
“他会杀了我们，”他想。
He wanted God to understand that he couldn't walk all over people, and then still have them come crawling back with their arms loaded up with gifts.
他希望上帝明白，他不能走遍人们，然后仍然让他们满怀礼物爬回来。
No. They had to get tough.
不，他们必须采取强硬态度。
So Cain's sacrifices became more and more lackadaisical.
于是该隐的牺牲就变得越来越懒散。
He did not even check to see whether his gifts were being received or not.
他甚至没有检查是否收到了他的礼物。
That would look like he was caving.
那看起来就像他在洞穴探险。
Then one day, while Cain was lying in a field, Abel came running over.
有一天，当该隐躺在田野里时，亚伯跑了过来。
"God spoke to me," cried Abel.
“上帝对我说话，”亚伯喊道。
Cain shut up and looked at his brother.
该隐闭嘴，看着他的兄弟。
"What did he say?"
“他说什么？”
"He said he was a great fan of my sheep.
“他说他非常喜欢我的羊。
He told me to keep up the good work." "Was my name mentioned?", asked Cain.
他告诉我要继续做好工作。” “有人提到我的名字吗？”该隐问道。
"It didn't come up."
“它没有出现。”
"What was it like to hear his voice?," asked Cain.
“听到他的声音感觉如何？”该隐问道。
"Look at me," said Abel.
“看着我，”阿贝尔说。
"I'm still shaking."
“我还在发抖。”
There's was a certain pang that Cain started to feel a lot.
该隐开始感受到某种痛苦。
It was in his stomach.
它在他的肚子里。
He felt the pang grow sharpest when he looked upon his brother.
当他看到他的兄弟时，他感到最痛苦。
He could hardly speak with him without having to hunch over in pain.
他几乎无法与他说话而不痛苦地弯腰驼背。
Since the world was still new, and no one had yet felt this way, Cain did not know that it was jealousy he was feeling.
由于世界还是新的，还没有人有过这种感觉，该隐不知道他现在的感觉是嫉妒。
Instead, he decided that his stomach no longer wanted to be his stomach.
相反，他决定他的胃不再是他的胃。
It wanted to escape his rib cage.
它想逃离他的肋骨。
It wanted to be Abel's stomach.
它想成为亚伯的胃。
This was because he wanted to be Abel.
这是因为他想成为亚伯。
There was no shame in this.
这并没有什么可耻的。
Being Abel meant being happy.
成为亚伯就意味着快乐。
Being Cain meant being wretched.
作为该隐就意味着可怜。
Being Cain had brought him nothing.
成为该隐并没有给他带来什么。
He had a plan.
他有一个计划。
He approached Abel with it.
他带着它走向亚伯。
He decided to just spring it on him.
他决定直接把它扔到他身上。
"I am no longer Cain," said Cain.
“我不再是该隐了，”该隐说。
"I am now Abel.
“我现在是阿贝尔。
We are both Abel." "All right," said Abel.
我们都是阿贝尔。” “好吧，”阿贝尔说。
The two Abels performed routines for the amusement of their brothers and sisters.
两个阿贝尔表演了一些节目来娱乐他们的兄弟姐妹。
"How's that apple, Abel?" "It's fine, Abel." "Abel, could you pass it over so that I may have a bite?" "I, Abel, don't see why not, Abel." Then one day, things became more grave.
“那个苹果怎么样，亚伯？” “没关系，亚伯。” “亚伯，你能把它递过来让我咬一口吗？” “我，亚伯，不明白为什么不，亚伯。”然后有一天，事情变得更加严重。
"If I am Abel," said Cain, "then I am just as much Abel as you yourself are Abel."
该隐说：“如果我是亚伯，那么我就是亚伯，就像你是亚伯一样。”
"I suppose that's true," said Abel.
“我想这是真的，”阿贝尔说。
"Then before God, are we not both Abel?", asked Cain.
“那么，在上帝面前，我们不都是亚伯吗？”该隐问道。
"Well, in the case of being before God, I think at that time, I would be Abel, and you would go back to being Cain." "That won't do," said Cain.
“嗯，如果在神面前的话，我想那个时候，我会是亚伯，而你会回到该隐。” “那不行，”该隐说。
His eyes lingered on his brother.
他的目光停留在弟弟身上。
He looked at this other Abel as standing in the way of who he was.
他认为另一个亚伯阻碍了他的发展。
He was Abel.
他是亚伯。
He knew this in his heart.
他心里清楚这一点。
He simply wanted it more.
他只是想要更多。
This way, God would have to show himself.
这样一来，神就必须显现自己。
This way, God would have to stop playing possum and get directly involved in what was going on.
这样，上帝就必须停止扮演负鼠的角色，并直接参与正在发生的事情。
These were Cain's thoughts.
这是该隐的想法。
Abel was among his flock when Cain neared him.
当该隐走近亚伯时，亚伯正在他的羊群中。
Slowly, Cain pulled out his stick, and slowly, he lifted it into the air.
慢慢地，该隐拔出了他的棍子，然后慢慢地，他把它举到了空中。
Still though, there was no sign of God.
尽管如此，仍然没有上帝的迹象。
He looked at the back of Abel's head.
他看着亚伯的后脑勺。
Then he looked into the sky.
然后他看向天空。
Just in case God was reading his mind, he thought to himself, "I'm really, really going to do it." He brought his stick down onto his brother's head.
为了防止上帝读懂他的心思，他心里想：“我真的、真的会这么做。”他把棍子放到了他哥哥的头上。
He could hear no sound at all.
他根本听不到任何声音。
Abel just toppled over.
亚伯刚刚摔倒了。
He toppled over the way he did everything, with an easygoing acceptance.
他推翻了自己做事的方式，轻松地接受了。
He sank to the earth as though thinking, "I must fall, so I will fall.
他倒在地上，仿佛在想：“我必须跌倒，所以我会跌倒。
I am falling.
我正在坠落。
I have fallen."
我摔倒了。”
Cain grabbed his brother by the shoulder and turned him over.
该隐抓住他兄弟的肩膀，把他翻了过来。
His brother's eyes were wide open.
他哥哥的眼睛睁得大大的。
It was like Abel was looking past him, over his shoulder and up into the sky.
就好像亚伯的目光越过他，越过他的肩膀，望向天空。
When they were kids, there was a game they played, where Cain would do something, something bad, and Abel would look over just behind him.
当他们还是孩子的时候，他们玩过一种游戏，该隐会做一些事情，一些坏事，而亚伯会在他身后看着。
As though spying their father, who had been watching.
就好像在监视一直在注视着他们的父亲。
Cain, full of fear, would slowly turn to meet his father's gaze.
该隐充满了恐惧，慢慢地转过头来迎接他父亲的目光。
When he'd see that there was really no one there, he would laugh.
当他看到那里真的没有人时，他会笑。
Now, it was like Abel was playing at their game, but this time, he did not move a muscle even to smile.
现在，亚伯就像是在玩他们的游戏，但这一次，他连一丝笑容都没有动。
Here it was.
就在这里。
Death.
死亡。
Cain couldn't believe it.
凯恩简直不敢相信。
He'd been sure that at the last moment, God would step in.
他确信在最后一刻，上帝会介入。
He would have thought that only God could have taken a person's life.
他本以为只有上帝才能夺走一个人的生命。
But it was as simple as killing a sheep.
但这就像杀羊一样简单。
Abel, his eyes wide and unblinking, stared directly into the mystery of life and death.
亚伯睁大眼睛，一眨不眨，直视着生与死的奥秘。
And he was not saying a word about any of it.
他对此只字不提。
Cain sat back and weighed it.
该隐坐下来掂量着。
The sheep continue to graze, and the sun continued to shine.
羊群继续吃草，阳光继续灿烂。
There were no bolts of lightning, no booming voice from behind the clouds.
没有闪电，云层后面也没有轰鸣的声音。
Life went on.
生活还在继续。
That night, God appeared before Cain in a dream.
那天晚上，上帝在该隐的梦中出现在该隐面前。
"Where is your brother?", asked God.
上帝问：“你的兄弟在哪里？”
"It's always about my brother," said Cain.
“这总是关于我的兄弟，”该隐说。
"Do you ever ask me where I am?
“你有没有问过我在哪里？
No, that you don't think of."
不，你想不到。”
"What have you done?", asked God.
“你做了什么？”上帝问道。
"Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground." "Am I my brother's keeper?", asked Cain.
“你兄弟的血从地里向我呼喊。” “我是我兄弟的守护者吗？”该隐问道。
God did not answer.
上帝没有回答。
He just gave him a look.
他只是看了他一眼。
It made Cain feel naked and small.
这让该隐感到赤裸和渺小。
He then felt the finger of God upon his forehead.
然后他感觉到上帝的手指放在了他的额头上。
It sank through his head and into his brain, where it spoke.
它穿过他的头，进入他的大脑，在那里说话。
"The earth shall scorn you," said the voice from the finger.
“大地将会蔑视你，”手指中的声音说道。
"I shall scorn you.
“我会鄙视你。
You will wander the earth, and death will not come.
你将在地球上徘徊，死亡不会到来。
There will be no escape from your guilt.
你将无法逃脱你的罪恶感。
All will look upon you, and none will dare kill you.
所有人都会看着你，没有人敢杀你。
For they will know you by your mark." God withdrew his finger, leaving behind a fingerprint on Cain's forehead that was shaped like a tear drop.
因为他们会通过你的标记认出你。”上帝收回了手指，在该隐的额头上留下了泪滴形状的指纹。
At first he tried to convince himself that the mark was to protect him.
起初他试图说服自己这个标记是为了保护他。
That he had a secret pact with God.
他与上帝有一个秘密契约。
That they understood each other.
他们互相理解。
For a while, he would wake up in the morning and pretend to be immortal and famous.
有一段时间，他会在早上醒来，假装成仙，出名。
But he was not very good at pretending.
但他不太擅长伪装。
So as the centuries passed, Cain abandoned farming and roamed the earth.
几个世纪过去了，该隐放弃了耕种，在地球上漫游。
He walked with a sense of purpose, just in case anyone was watching.
他走路时带着一种使命感，以防有人看到。
But in his heart, he knew he had nowhere to go.
但他心里却知道，自己无处可去。
He became so lonely and full of regret, that instead of fearing death, he became yearnful of it.
他变得如此孤独和悔恨，他不再害怕死亡，而是渴望死亡。
He would chase after bears, and they would scamper away.
他会追赶熊，而它们会逃跑。
"They haven't the balls," he'd say.
“他们没有胆量，”他会说。
"Run, you little bitches," he'd call after the tigers.
“快跑，你们这些小母狗，”他会在老虎身后喊道。
"Run, you yellow turds," he'd cry into the face of an alligator, as he tried in vain to pry open its jaws.
“快跑，你们这些黄色的粪便，”他对着鳄鱼的脸喊道，同时他徒劳地试图撬开鳄鱼的嘴。
More centuries passed.
又几个世纪过去了。
And Cain's desire for death became nearly constant.
该隐对死亡的渴望几乎持续不断。
He would think about Abel up in heaven, palling around with God, flying through the clouds on God's shoulders, while he was left to putz around for hundreds of years, begging his own children to drive tree branches through his heart.
他会想到亚伯在天上，与上帝在一起，在上帝的肩膀上飞翔在云端，而他却被遗弃了数百年，乞求自己的孩子将树枝插进他的心脏。
In life, Cain had been jealous of his brother.
该隐生前一直嫉妒他的兄弟。
But it was in death, that he became more jealous than he ever thought was possible.
但正是在死亡之后，他变得比他想象的更加嫉妒。
He could feel Abel up there looking down on him.
他能感觉到亚伯在上面俯视着他。
"You should see the look on your face," he would hear his brother say, trying to be all serious.
“你应该看看你脸上的表情，”他会听到他的兄弟说，试图表现得严肃起来。
"You look like a gorilla."
“你看起来像只大猩猩。”
Over time, Cain could no longer remember very much at all.
随着时间的推移，该隐已经记不起太多事情了。
20 years after the death of his brother, it seemed like it was only yesterday.
哥哥去世20年了，一切仿佛就发生在昨天。
But after 200 years, it felt like something that might have happened in a dream.
但200年后，这感觉就像是在梦中发生的事情。
There were details he remembered, that now seemed improbable.
他还记得一些细节，但现在看来不太可能了。
Like the way he saw his brother's soul leave his body.
就像他看到哥哥的灵魂离开自己的身体一样。
And the way he'd waved goodbye to him, and winked.
还有他向他挥手告别、眨眼的样子。
After 300 and 400 years, it all felt so long ago, that who he was back then felt like someone else.
300年、400年过去了，这一切都感觉是很久以前的事了，当时的他感觉就像是另一个人了。
When people he met asked him questions about the old days, he just made stuff up.
当他遇到的人问他有关过去的事情时，他只是编造一些东西。
"We had wings," he said.
“我们有翅膀，”他说。
After 500 years, his story was repeated so often, that he only remembered the repeating, not the events themselves.
500年后，他的故事被如此频繁地重复，以至于他只记得重复的内容，而不记得事件本身。
It sounded like a fable.
这听起来像一个寓言。
Something that might have just as easily happened to a fox and a rabbit, as to himself and his brother.
这种事很容易发生在狐狸和兔子身上，就像发生在他自己和他的兄弟身上一样。
He began to doubt everything.
他开始怀疑一切。
He even began to wonder whether he had actually ever heard God's voice.
他甚至开始怀疑自己是否真的听过神的声音。
Whether the mark on his forehead was the mark of God, and not just another liver spot.
他额头上的印记是否是上帝的印记，而不仅仅是另一个肝斑。
"Was this a part of the punishment?", he wondered.
“这是惩罚的一部分吗？”他想知道。
To be left so uncertain of whether God really was, or whether God was only something inside his own head.
如此不确定上帝是否真的存在，或者上帝是否只是他自己头脑中的某种东西。
After 700 years, when he told the story to himself, or heard it told by others, he felt nothing.
700年后，当他自己讲这个故事，或者听别人讲这个故事时，他没有任何感觉。
He was too old to feel guilt, or remorse, or anything.
他已经太老了，无法感到内疚、悔恨或任何其他感觉。
He didn't even miss his brother anymore.
他甚至不再想念他的兄弟了。
He wanted nothing from God.
他不想要从神那里得到任何东西。
He wanted nothing from the world.
他对这个世界一无所求。
The world was what it was.
世界本来就是这样。
He didn't need it to change.
他不需要改变。
And in this way, he'd finally got his wish-- to be just like Abel.
就这样，他终于如愿以偿了——成为亚伯那样的人。
And then God let him die.
然后上帝就让他死了。
Jonathan Goldstein.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦。
He is the author of the novel Lenny Bruce Is Dead .
他是小说《莱尼·布鲁斯死了》的作者。
Coming up, trying to help a bunch of people who don't really want your help, in what you really could call a biblical setting.
接下来，尝试帮助一群并不真正需要你帮助的人，在你真正可以称之为圣经的环境中。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
This is This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week in our program of course we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Brother's Keeper.
今天的节目是《兄弟的守护者》。
Stories of when it is hard to figure out exactly what you're supposed to do for others, exactly what your responsibility is.
当你很难准确地弄清楚你应该为他人做什么、你的责任是什么时的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land.
第二幕，这片土地是你的土地，这片土地是我的土地。
Or Maybe Not.
或者也许不是。
Nancy Updike has the story of a man who's tried to save a whole country.
南希·厄普代克讲述了一个男人试图拯救整个国家的故事。
And how that's going.
事情进展如何。
Most people are repelled by what they don't like.
大多数人都会对自己不喜欢的事物感到排斥。
They avoid it.
他们避免它。
They don't want to see it, or hear it, or think about it.
他们不想看到它，不想听到它，也不想想它。
Dror Etkes spends all day looking at what he hates.
德罗尔·艾克斯整天都在研究他讨厌的东西。
Seeing more and more physical evidence of a future he dreads.
他害怕看到越来越多的未来的实物证据。
Talking at length to people he vehemently disagrees with.
与他强烈反对的人进行详细交谈。
This, I think this is this place, most likely.
这个，我想，很有可能就是这个地方。
What are you seeing?
你看到什么了？
Dror Etkes Two, three containers.
Dror Etkes 两个，三个集装箱。
Three mobile homes, I mean one Subaru.
三间活动房屋，我指的是一间斯巴鲁。
A huge manure.
巨大的粪肥。
Two black water containers.
两个黑色水容器。
And obviously, the beginning of settlement.
显然，解决的开始。
Dror may be the only person in the world who knows, and is willing to discuss, the name and location of every Israeli settlement.
德罗尔可能是世界上唯一知道并愿意讨论每个以色列定居点的名称和位置的人。
Every shack, mobile home, housing cluster, bypass, road and town in the West Bank.
西岸的每一个棚屋、移动房屋、住房群、旁路、道路和城镇。
In his rented Mitsubishi truck, he monitors settlements for the Israeli organization Peace Now.
他开着租来的三菱卡车，为以色列组织“立即和平”监视定居点。
He gets calls from the American consulate requesting briefings and statistics.
他接到美国领事馆的电话，要求提供简报和统计数据。
Israeli parliament members use his database.
以色列议会成员使用他的数据库。
He's driven, he works alone, and he is not popular.
他精力充沛，独自工作，而且不受欢迎。
His single-minded mission is to expose a process that many people would like to keep quiet.
他一心一意的使命是揭露一个许多人希望保持沉默的过程。
Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon told his cabinet in June that settlement building could continue, as long as it was discreet.
以色列总理阿里尔·沙龙六月告诉内阁，只要谨慎行事，定居点建设就可以继续进行。
"Don't celebrate," he said.
“别庆祝，”他说。
"Just build." A settler spokesman agreed.
“只是建造。”一位定居者发言人对此表示同意。
"The less talk, and the less documentation, the better," he told an Israeli newspaper.
“谈话越少，文件越少越好，”他告诉一家以色列报纸。
Nearly half of the West Bank, 42%, is now controlled by Israeli settlers and the local and regional land councils the govern them.
约旦河西岸近一半地区（42%）现在由以色列定居者控制，当地和地区土地委员会负责管理这些地区。
A political fact that makes any future peace agreement significantly more difficult.
这一政治事实使未来的和平协议变得更加困难。
So several times a week, Dror gets into his truck, throws a bulletproof vest in the back, and does a reverse commute out into the West Bank to see what's going on.
因此，德罗尔每周都会有几次钻进卡车，在后面穿上防弹背心，逆向前往约旦河西岸，看看发生了什么。
We go up to a construction site on a hill about nine miles southeast of Jerusalem, with some men doing work on a bunch of new houses.
我们去了耶路撒冷东南约九英里处一座小山上的一个建筑工地，一些人正在建造一堆新房子。
Dror, who's about six feet tall and solid, strides over to the deeply tanned man in wraparound sunglasses who seems to be supervising the site.
德罗尔身高约六英尺，身材魁梧，他大步走向那个戴着太阳镜、晒得黝黑的男人，他似乎正在监督现场。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Nancy Updike Do you speak English?
[说外语] 南希·厄普代克 你会说英语吗？
Inglit?
英格利特？
[TRANSLATING] Yes, and I don't want to talk.
[翻译] 是的，我不想说话。
You don't want to talk?
你不想说话吗？
Dror Etkes With this.
Dror Etkes 有了这个。
The microphone.
麦克风。
Nancy Updike Dror steers him away from the mike, and gets him to talk, no problem.
南希·厄普代克·德罗（Nancy Updike Dror）引导他远离麦克风，让他说话，没问题。
He talked carpentry with him, he tells me as we're driving away.
当我们开车离开时，他告诉我，他和他谈论了木工活。
And in the process, found out everything he wanted to know.
并且在这个过程中，发现了他想知道的一切。
The information that I got is that they build 122 square meter houses.
我得到的信息是他们建造了122平方米的房子。
Going to build about five, six units altogether.
总共要建造大约五、六个单元。
And the buildings are for people living right now involves caravans here.
这些建筑是为现在居住的人们提供的，其中包括这里的商队。
But they consider it to be a neighborhood of [UNINTELLIGIBLE], which is here.
但他们认为这是[无法理解]的一个街区，就在这里。
A new settlement is like a new freckle.
新的定居点就像新的雀斑。
It can be hard to notice unless you're really looking for it.
除非你真的在寻找它，否则很难注意到它。
A mobile home appears on a hill somewhere in the West Bank.
西岸某处的一座小山上出现了一座移动房屋。
At first it's just up there, empty.
起初它只是在那里，空的。
Maybe it's next to a Palestinian village or city, maybe it isn't.
也许它毗邻巴勒斯坦村庄或城市，也许不是。
A couple of people move in.
几个人搬了进来。
They set up water tanks.
他们设置了水箱。
A radio tower.
一座无线电塔。
Clear a rough road.
清理一条崎岖的道路。
Then bring in a few more mobile homes.
然后再引进一些移动房屋。
Soon, there are enough people on the hill that they need defending.
很快，山上就有足够多的人需要他们防守了。
So soldiers are assigned to it.
于是派兵去之。
Electricity and water lines are run from the nearest, more established settlement.
电力和供水线路均来自最近的、较成熟的定居点。
More people move in.
更多人搬进来。
Families, children.
家人、孩子。
A school is started.
学校开办了。
Eventually the hills around the original hill need to be claimed in order to protect it.
最终，为了保护原来的山，需要认领周围的山。
Dror was born in 1968, ten months after the first settlement was created.
Dror 出生于 1968 年，即第一个定居点建立十个月后。
When he was 15 years old, studying in a religious school in Jerusalem, there were 23,000 settlers in the West Bank and Gaza.
当他15岁时，在耶路撒冷的一所宗教学校学习时，约旦河西岸和加沙地带有23,000名定居者。
When he was 21, and no longer religious, and was finishing his military service in an infantry combat unit, there were 72,000.
当他 21 岁时，不再信教，并即将在步兵作战部队服完兵役时，人数已达 72,000 人。
When he was 28, and just back from years abroad trying to run away from Israel, it was 148,000.
当他 28 岁、刚从国外试图逃离以色列回来时，这个数字是 148,000。
When I came back to the country, I started quite soon after, to move on to the West Bank and to start to look for my own perspective.
当我回到这个国家后，我很快就开始前往约旦河西岸并开始寻找我自己的观点。
How actually things goes on there.
事情实际上是如何进行的。
You started driving around the West Bank in--
你开始开车环游西岸是在——
You just on your own initiative, when you got back?
你就自己主动回来了？
What were you looking for?
你在找什么？
Oh, speaking with people.
哦，与人交谈。
And looking at the changes.
并观察变化。
You know, the West Bank had been dramatically changed during the nine years.
要知道，九年来，约旦河西岸发生了巨大的变化。
The years Dror was away were the early years of the Oslo peace accords.
德罗尔离开的那几年是奥斯陆和平协定的早期。
A time when many Israelis saw a peaceful solution, two states for two peoples, as inevitable, and imminent.
当时，许多以色列人认为和平解决方案、两国人民的两个国家是不可避免的，也是迫在眉睫的。
The growth of settlements during those years was not widely publicized or discussed.
那些年里定居点的增长并没有被广泛宣传或讨论。
When Dror tried to tell his friends what he was seeing, they'd say, well we're giving it back anyway, so who cares if a few more houses are being built.
当德罗尔试图告诉他的朋友他所看到的东西时，他们会说，无论如何我们都会归还它，所以谁在乎是否会建造更多的房子。
And he'd say no, no, no, you don't understand.
他会说不，不，不，你不明白。
We're not preparing to give it back.
我们不准备归还它。
We're preparing to stay.
我们正准备留下来。
His friends' eyes would glaze over.
他的朋友们目光呆滞。
They'd shrug.
他们会耸耸肩。
It infuriated him.
这激怒了他。
He had no interest in turning his life into a political mission to save his country.
他没有兴趣将自己的生活变成拯救国家的政治使命。
He'd spent his years abroad avoiding Israelis, trying not to think about Israel.
多年来，他在国外一直避开以色列人，尽量不去想以色列。
For a long time, he thought he'd never go back.
很长一段时间，他都以为自己再也回不去了。
Settlements were not something he'd ever intended to take on.
和解并不是他曾经打算承担的事情。
At first when I came back to the country, consciously, I was keeping myself detached from this place in some ways.
起初，当我回到这个国家时，我有意识地在某些方面与这个地方保持着距离。
I tried to, at least, I think.
我想，至少我尝试过。
I was not really able to do it.
我真的做不到。
But somehow, I was trying to convince myself that I could live everywhere in the world.
但不知何故，我试图说服自己我可以生活在世界任何地方。
And when the time goes on, and I'm here longer, and especially over the last years.
随着时间的推移，我在这里待的时间越来越长，尤其是最近几年。
I must admit that, the settlers have made me, you know, I'm a born-again patriot.
我必须承认，定居者让我，你知道，我是一个重生的爱国者。
I feel that the settlers pushed me, shoved me to the corner, but I have to fight for this place.
我觉得定居者推着我，把我推到墙角，但我必须为这个地方而战。
You know, fighting for our home.
你知道，为我们的家园而战。
This is the settlers', their slogan.
这是定居者的口号。
They're fighting for their homes.
他们正在为自己的家园而战。
This is more or less what I feel right now.
这或多或少就是我现在的感受。
[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Nancy Updike Dror is calling a new settlement, pretending he wants to move there so he can get information about the place.
[说外语] 南希·厄普代克·德罗 (Nancy Updike Dror) 正在给一个新的定居点打电话，假装他想搬到那里，以便获得有关该地方的信息。
He has an ever-changing repertoire of deceptions to get information.
他有一套不断变化的欺骗手段来获取信息。
For a while he drove around the settlements posing as a cell phone technician, so he could ask a lot of intrusive questions.
有一段时间，他冒充手机技术人员开车在定居点周围转悠，这样他就可以问很多侵入性的问题。
How many people live here?
有多少人住在这里？
Oh, you'll need a couple of towers then, huh?
哦，那么你需要几座塔，是吗？
What about that new road up there?
那边那条新路怎么样？
Going to be some people up there, too?
上面也会有一些人吗？
They'll need a cell tower.
他们需要一个手机信号塔。
It worked well until a settler blew his cover by asking for ID, and then told all the others.
这种方法很有效，直到一名定居者要求出示身份证件，暴露了自己的身份，然后告诉了其他所有人。
When I drove with him, Dror told a lot of the people he talked to exactly who he was, and they spoke to him anyway.
当我和他一起开车时，德罗尔告诉了很多与他交谈过的人他是谁，无论如何他们都和他交谈过。
But he has no compunction about lying, elaborately, if need be, when he thinks it would help.
但如果需要的话，当他认为这会有所帮助时，他毫不犹豫地精心撒谎。
Like with this phone call.
就像这个电话一样。
Dror says he knows settler jargon, how to put them at ease.
德罗尔说他知道定居者的行话，知道如何让他们放松。
He grew up around settlers, in a religious family.
他在定居者周围的一个宗教家庭中长大。
He says he understands them, how they think and live.
他说他了解他们，了解他们的想法和生活方式。
And on the phone, he finds out what he wants to know by playing a fully imagined alter-ego.
在电话里，他通过扮演一个完全想象的另一个自我来了解他想知道的事情。
Dror, the settler.
德罗尔，定居者。
You know, father of four or five kids.
你知道，四五个孩子的父亲。
And I was in army in a specific unit, where a lot of religious people are going.
我当时在军队的一个特定单位，那里有很多宗教人士。
And I married a woman who does a certain thing.
我娶了一个做某事的女人。
You know, she's a teacher.
你知道，她是一名老师。
And I always admire the settlers.
我一直很钦佩定居者。
Of course, I'm religious, and I told them I'm [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
当然，我有宗教信仰，我告诉他们我是[难以理解]。
But I'm a bit afraid, you know.
但我有点害怕，你知道。
I really want to do it, but I have to find the guts in me.
我真的很想这么做，但我必须找到自己的勇气。
A settler spokesman once joked about Dror.
一位定居者发言人曾经拿德罗尔开玩笑。
His obsession shows a deep psychic tie to the land of Israel.
他的痴迷表明了他与以色列这片土地有着深厚的心灵联系。
In his previous incarnation, he must have been a settler.
在他的前世，他一定是一名定居者。
One of the side effects of Dror's job is that even though he disagrees with them, he now has more in common with settler activists than with the vast majority of Israelis.
德罗尔工作的副作用之一是，尽管他不同意他们的观点，但他现在与定居者活动人士的共同点比与绝大多数以色列人的共同点更多。
Like settlers, he spends a lot of time in the West Bank, frustrated that the rest of Israel doesn't seem to know or care what's happening there.
和定居者一样，他在约旦河西岸度过了很多时间，对以色列其他地区似乎不知道或不关心那里发生的事情感到沮丧。
Like them, his position on the issue of settlements is at the core of his identity.
和他们一样，他在定居点问题上的立场是他身份的核心。
He told me he can't be friends with anyone who disagrees with him about it.
他告诉我，他不能与任何不同意他观点的人成为朋友。
In fact, he said it's hard for him to relate to anyone who doesn't see the same things he does every day.
事实上，他说他很难与那些看不到他每天所做的事情的人产生共鸣。
We were leaving the settlement of Ariel when an orthodox man, who was asking every man who walked by whether he wanted to pray, called out to Dror.
当我们离开阿里尔定居点时，一位正统的男子向德罗尔喊道，他询问每个路过的人是否愿意祈祷。
They had an exchange.
他们进行了交流。
Dror refused to pray, but he did it in a way that let the guy know he had a religious background.
德罗尔拒绝祈祷，但他这样做的方式让那家伙知道他有宗教背景。
According to ancient Jewish law, minors, the deaf, and the retarded are exempt from following religious commands.
根据古代犹太法律，未成年人、聋哑人和智障人士可以免受宗教戒律的约束。
So I said to him, I am those three things.
所以我对他说，我就是那三件事。
I am deaf, and I'm a minor, and I'm retarded.
我是聋哑人，我是未成年人，而且我是弱智。
So I don't have to do it.
所以我没必要这么做。
So he realized immediately that I know something.
所以他立刻意识到我知道一些事情。
It's not because I don't know.
这不是因为我不知道。
I know, and I don't do it, deliberately.
我知道，但我不是故意的。
Yeah, I like to provoke, like a provocation.
是的，我喜欢挑衅，就像挑衅一样。
You like to provoke them.
你喜欢激怒他们。
Dror Etkes Yeah, I like to provoke them, yeah.
Dror Etkes 是的，我喜欢激怒他们，是的。
Those guys are fundamentalists.
那些人是原教旨主义者。
They think what they're doing, you know, saving the world, redeeming the world-- bother me.
他们认为他们正在做的事情，你知道，拯救世界，救赎世界——让我烦恼。
I don't like it.
我不喜欢它。
I don't like people who are trying to convert other people.
我不喜欢那些试图改变别人的人。
You kind of are trying to convert people, though.
不过，你有点试图改变人们的态度。
[LAUGHTER] Am I?
[笑声]我是吗？
You're right.
你说得对。
You're right.
你说得对。
So I don't like people who try to convert, religiously, people.
所以我不喜欢那些试图在宗教上改变人们信仰的人。
I don't like the competition!
我不喜欢竞争！
Yeah, it's a good one.
是的，这是一件好事。
[LAUGHTER]
[笑声]
[CAR DOORS SLAM] Nancy Updike Also like settler activists, he's always on the job.
[车门猛然关上] 南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 和定居者积极分子一样，他总是在工作。
And like them, he sees his job as a constant effort to correct the misguided all around him.
和他们一样，他认为自己的工作就是不断努力纠正周围的误导。
We picked up two 18 year old settler boys who were hitchhiking.
我们接了两个搭便车的 18 岁定居男孩。
He spent the first ten minutes of the ride milking them for information.
旅途的前十分钟，他都在向他们榨取信息。
Where do you live?
你住在哪里？
He asked one.
他问了一个。
Ma'ale [UNINTELLIGIBLE], the kid answered.
Ma'ale [无法辨认]，孩子回答道。
And how are things at Ma'ale [UNINTELLIGIBLE]?
Ma'ale 的情况如何[无法辨认]？
Praise the Lord, things are good, the kid said.
赞美主，一切都很好，孩子说。
Yeah?, said Dror.
是吗？”德罗尔说。
How many families are there?
有多少个家庭？
89, 90, the kid said.
89、90，孩子说。
Once Dror had found out everything he wanted to know, he told them he monitored settlements for Peace Now, and one of the boys said, I'm curious about your outlook.
一旦德罗尔发现了他想知道的一切，他告诉他们他正在监视定居点的“立即和平”，其中一个男孩说，我很好奇你的看法。
Can you explain it to me?
你能给我解释一下吗？
After saying he wasn't sure he had the energy to get into it with them, Dror began a half hour argument that got more and more heated and complicated.
在表示不确定自己是否有精力与他们一起讨论后，德罗尔开始了长达半小时的争论，争论变得越来越激烈和复杂。
Until finally, one of the boy said plaintively, look, most of the country identifies with us.
直到最后，其中一个男孩哀怨地说，你看，这个国家的大部分人都认同我们。
Forget about it, Dror said, shifting gears.
算了吧，德罗尔一边说，一边换了档。
He interrupted the main argument to explain to the kids, that in fact both of them, and Dror, are all in the same boat.
他打断了主要争论，向孩子们解释说，事实上他们和德罗尔都在同一条船上。
"Forget about it.
“别想了。
Most of the country doesn't give a dick-- pardon me, but I'm going to say this bluntly-- most of the country doesn't give a dick about what you say, or what I say.
这个国家的大部分人并不在意——请原谅，但我要直白地说——这个国家的大部分人并不在意你说的话，或者我说的话。
Both the settlers and Peace Now are tiny groups.
定居者和“立即和平”都是小团体。
The big fight between us, is who's able to capture broad public support.
我们之间的重大斗争是谁能够获得广泛的公众支持。
Not by getting people to identify with our ideology, because nobody gives a damn if God promised him some covenant with Abraham.
不是通过让人们认同我们的意识形态，因为没有人在乎上帝是否应许与亚伯拉罕立约。
This part of the land of Israel, or some other part.
以色列土地的这一部分，或其他一些部分。
And unfortunately, no one gives a damn in this country about human rights either."
不幸的是，这个国家也没有人关心人权。”
Every American administration since 1967 has made some statement against settlements.
自 1967 年以来的每一届美国政府都曾发表过一些反对定居点的声明。
Saying that they're contrary to the Geneva convention, the international law that governs occupying powers, and a serious obstacle to any peace agreement.
称它们违反了《日内瓦公约》和管辖占领国的国际法，并且是任何和平协议的严重障碍。
President George Bush, in a speech that preceded the Road Map peace plan, said quote, "Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories must stop."
乔治·布什总统在路线图和平计划之前的一次讲话中表示，“以色列在被占领土上的定居点活动必须停止。”
Twice, first in 1978 and again in 1992, Israel and the US have come to explicit agreements to freeze settlement growth.
以色列和美国两次达成冻结定居点增长的明确协议，第一次是在 1978 年，第二次是在 1992 年。
Settlements have increased throughout.
整个定居点都在增加。
As they increase and multiply, it's hard to avoid certain questions.
随着它们的增加和繁殖，很难避免某些问题。
Where exactly is a Palestinian state going to fit?
巴勒斯坦国到底适合哪里？
And if Israel really intends to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza, to give up land for peace, why keep building?
如果以色列真的打算从约旦河西岸和加沙撤军，放弃土地换取和平，那为什么还要继续建设呢？
A few weeks ago, Dror testified before the US senate, the Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs subcommittee of the Foreign Relations Committee.
几周前，德罗尔在美国参议院、外交关系委员会近东和南亚事务小组委员会作证。
A senator on tour in Israel a few months back met him, and invited him to speak about settlements and settlement growth.
几个月前，一位在以色列出访的参议员会见了他，并邀请他谈论定居点和定居点的发展。
I think Dror's probably doing work that has already been done for him.
我认为德罗尔可能正在做已经为他完成的工作。
And I think the American government with its satellite services could probably do it even better.
我认为美国政府及其卫星服务可能会做得更好。
Israel Meidad grew up in Queens, and moved to the settlement of Shilo in 1981.
Israel Meidad 在皇后区长大，1981 年搬到希洛定居点。
He's debated Peace Now representatives many, many times.
他曾多次与“立即和平”代表进行辩论。
He's a settler spokesman.
他是一名定居者发言人。
I'm sure they know exactly where the roads are, where the caravans are being placed.
我确信他们确切地知道道路在哪里，大篷车停在哪里。
And for me, actually, he represents a very sort of unfortunate aspect of Zionism over the past hundred years.
事实上，对我来说，他代表了过去百年犹太复国主义的一个非常不幸的方面。
Where they have to run to the non-Jews in order to tell them what's going on.
他们必须跑到非犹太人那里才能告诉他们发生了什么事。
Its sort of an element of not accepting democracy.
这是不接受民主的一个因素。
Democracy is, you decide.
民主是，你决定。
And we had a vote recently, and Mr. Sharon had over 65% of the vote.
我们最近进行了一次投票，沙龙先生获得了超过65%的选票。
I mean what he says is, look they invited me.
我的意思是他说的是，看他们邀请了我。
And my main audience is Israel, is Israelis.
我的主要观众是以色列，是以色列人。
That I'm gathering these numbers, and trying to put them out to Israel.
我正在收集这些数字，并试图将它们提供给以色列。
And the Americans just happened to ask me.
美国人正好问我。
But my main audience is Israel.
但我的主要观众是以色列。
You're making a face.
你在做鬼脸。
He's lying.
他在撒谎。
Nancy Updike You don't think his main audience is Israel.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike） 你不认为他的主要观众是以色列。
His main audience is the United States of America.
他的主要受众是美利坚合众国。
I would say to him that, his political point of view has consistently lost out in a democratic form called elections in the state of Israel.
我想对他说，他的政治观点一直在以色列国的民主选举中失败。
The polls that have consistently been published about dismantling communities and taking Jews back, et cetera, like that, have always been, for peace, would you do this?
一直以来发布的关于拆除社区、带回犹太人等等的民意调查，一直都是这样的，为了和平，你会这样做吗？
Israelis would do anything for peace, to tell you the truth.
说实话，以色列人愿意为和平做任何事情。
But once the crunch comes, they decide otherwise, usually in elections.
但一旦紧要关头到来，他们就会做出不同的决定，通常是在选举中。
Polls are not elections.
民意调查不是选举。
And Dror doesn't realize that.
而德罗尔并没有意识到这一点。
Dror thinks that his ideological position can be moved over onto the majority of the population.
德罗尔认为他的意识形态立场可以转移到大多数人身上。
Consistently, over the past 37 years, that has not happened.
过去 37 年来，这种情况一直没有发生。
I don't think it will.
我认为不会。
We're entering a settlement, [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
我们正在达成和解，[无法理解]。
Dror believes that settlements will be dismantled and evacuated in his lifetime.
德罗尔相信，定居点将在他有生之年被拆除和疏散。
He believes this, in spite of the fact that just in the time I've been interviewing him for this story, hundreds of new permits for houses in the West Bank have been issued.
他相信这一点，尽管就在我为这篇报道采访他的时候，西岸已经发放了数百份新的房屋许可证。
Eight outposts, some of them illegal, were granted the status of permanent communities by the government.
八个前哨站（其中一些是非法的）被政府授予永久社区地位。
A hundred million dollars was approved by the government to build houses in the occupied territories.
政府批准一亿美元在被占领土上建造房屋。
And a new incentive program was announced to attract young Israeli couples to settlements in the Jordan valley.
还宣布了一项新的激励计划，以吸引年轻的以色列夫妇来到约旦河谷的定居点。
Free rent for four years, plus full college tuition for one person in the couple.
夫妇中的一人可免四年租金，另加全额大学学费。
Over a hundred couples have signed up so far.
目前已有一百多对情侣报名。
Dror's optimism in the face of all this is especially shocking, given his personal experience.
考虑到德罗尔的个人经历，面对这一切的乐观态度尤其令人震惊。
As we were driving through a block of settlements about nine miles east of Jerusalem, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] he announced suddenly--
当我们开车穿过耶路撒冷以东约九英里的一片定居点时，[无法辨认]他突然宣布——
My sister live in Elon.
我姐姐住在埃隆。
Nancy Updike Your sister lives here?
南希·厄普代克 你姐姐住在这里吗？
Not here, in the other settlement, Elon.
不在这里，在另一个定居点，埃隆。
Right.
正确的。
Nancy Updike And, I mean, what does your sister think of what you do?
南希·厄普代克 我的意思是，你姐姐对你所做的事有何看法？
Well, she supports it, totally.
嗯，她完全支持。
She votes Israeli, she votes--
她投票以色列人，她投票——
Come on!
来吧！
Dror Etkes Yeah, yeah, yeah.
德罗尔·艾克斯 是啊，是啊，是啊。
This is Israeli reality right now.
这就是以色列现在的现实。
So what do you mean, she supports it?
那你说她支持是什么意思？
I mean, it seems like your whole goal is to get her to move out of her house.
我的意思是，看来你的全部目标就是让她搬出她的房子。
Right.
正确的。
And my sister moved to this settlement eight months ago or so.
我姐姐大约八个月前搬到了这个定居点。
They are living in a container.
他们生活在一个容器里。
They're paying $100 rent.
他们支付 100 美元的租金。
An apartment in Israel, in Jerusalem, would have the same size of their container, would cost perhaps five times more.
以色列耶路撒冷的一套公寓如果有同样大小的集装箱，价格可能会高出五倍。
So, did your sister talk to you about this before doing it?
那么，你姐姐在做这件事之前有和你谈过这件事吗？
And say look, I'm going to do this?
并说看，我要这样做？
Yes, we had the hardest conversations before.
是的，我们之前进行过最艰难的谈话。
We had very, very hard conversations about it.
我们对此进行了非常非常艰难的对话。
She just, I guess, concluded by saying that she would never build a house there at the settlement.
我猜她最后的结论是她永远不会在定居点建房子。
And that she doesn't consider herself as an obstacle to peace.
她并不认为自己是和平的障碍。
And if Israeli government would decide to evacuate those areas, of course she would never do anything against it.
如果以色列政府决定撤离这些地区，她当然不会采取任何反对行动。
And nobody is living on this land anyhow.
无论如何，没有人生活在这片土地上。
We headed up a rough dirt road near [UNINTELLIGIBLE] where two empty trailer homes sat on top of a hill, placeholders for an upcoming settlement to add to the block his sister lives in.
我们沿着[无法辨认]附近一条崎岖的土路行驶，山顶上有两座空的拖车房，它们是即将到来的定居点的占位符，将添加到他姐姐居住的街区。
We went inside one.
我们走进一间。
So this is two bedrooms, a bathroom, and a sort of living room kitchen area.
这是两间卧室、一间浴室和一个客厅厨房区。
It's exactly the type of trailer which my sister has, where she live, I told you about before.
这正是我姐姐住的地方拥有的那种拖车，我之前告诉过你。
This is the kind of trailer your sister lives in.
这就是你姐姐住的那种拖车。
Quite, quite, quite similar.
非常非常非常相似。
It's enough for young parents with one baby.
对于有一个孩子的年轻父母来说已经足够了。
I guess why my sister is refusing to see, this is what I told her is that, she is benefiting from extreme unjust political agenda.
我猜为什么我姐姐拒绝见，这就是我告诉她的，她正在从极端不公正的政治议程中受益。
And this is what she's, just, closing her eyes to see.
这就是她闭上眼睛所看到的。
You know, claiming that she's going to Peace Now demonstration, one every four years, she's completing her duty.
你知道，声称她将参加每四年一次的“立即和平”示威活动，她正在履行自己的职责。
And if she votes the right party, once every four years, she's completing with her political responsibility.
如果她每四年一次投票给正确的政党，她就完成了自己的政治责任。
I think it's a very, very ignorant thing to say.
我认为这是非常非常无知的说法。
I'm living with a consciousness.
我带着意识生活。
What you are doing privately in your life, how you live, where you shop, how you consume.
你在生活中私下做什么，你如何生活，你在哪里购物，你如何消费。
Who you speak with, how do speak with.
你和谁说话，怎么说话。
This is politics.
这就是政治。
It sounds exhausting.
听起来很累。
Dror Etkes I look exhausted.
Dror Etkes 我看上去很疲惫。
You don't look exhausted.
你看起来并不疲惫。
On the contrary, you seem full of energy and pep.
相反，你看上去精力充沛，精神抖擞。
No, I'm very exhausted.
不，我太累了。
Nancy Updike You feel exhausted?
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike） 您感到筋疲力尽吗？
Yes, exhausted.
是的，筋疲力尽。
I feel exhausted, I don't feel that I'm as exhausted, that I'm ready to give up.
我感到精疲力尽，但我不觉得自己已经精疲力尽，我已经准备好放弃了。
And I don't.
但我不这么认为。
This is not what I'm saying.
这不是我要说的。
But living here in this country is an extremely exhausting thing.
但生活在这个国家是一件极其疲惫的事情。
Living here consciously?
有意识地住在这里吗？
If you are politically conscious and aware?
如果你有政治觉悟和自觉性？
It's an extremely exhausting thing.
这是一件极其劳累的事情。
I have many friends who are living abroad, mostly in Europe.
我有很多朋友住在国外，其中大部分在欧洲。
And I must admit that I'm envying them once in a while.
我必须承认我偶尔会羡慕他们。
They have much better life than I have.
他们的生活比我好得多。
Much, much better.
好多了。
Patriotism is a kind of love.
爱国主义是一种爱。
And like any other love, it can be unrequited.
就像任何其他的爱一样，它可能是单相思的。
There's the patriot, Dror.
这就是爱国者，德罗尔。
He feels responsible to his country.
他感到对自己的国家负有责任。
Worries about it, has plans for it, feels devoted to it.
担心它，有计划，感觉全身心投入。
And then there's the country itself.
然后是国家本身。
The patriot's fellow citizens.
爱国者的同胞们。
Who usually don't even notice what he's doing.
通常谁都没有注意到他在做什么。
And when they do notice, find it pathetic, or enraging, or unpatriotic.
当他们注意到时，会觉得这很可悲，或者令人愤怒，或者不爱国。
Nancy Updike lives in Jerusalem.
南希·厄普代克住在耶路撒冷。
Her story's part of the Hearing Voices project, which gets funding from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and is online at hearingvoices.com.
她的故事是“聆听之声”项目的一部分，该项目获得了公共广播公司的资助，并在hearingvoices.com 上发布。
[MUSIC - "DON'T FENCE ME IN" BY BING CROSBY]
[音乐 - BING CROSBY 的《别围攻我》]
Act Three, Neighbor's Keeper.
第三幕，邻居的守护者。
This is the story of a small town in Illinois.
这是发生在伊利诺伊州一个小镇的故事。
A farm town of 1,400 called Toulan.
一个有 1,400 人的农场小镇，名叫头兰。
Where people usually look out for each other, help out when there's trouble.
人们通常会互相照顾，有困难时会伸出援手。
Except when it came to one problem that a few folks in town were facing.
除非涉及镇上一些人面临的一个问题。
People in Toulon have different opinions about when this story begins, but everybody agrees on when it ends.
土伦人对这个故事何时开始有不同的看法，但每个人都同意它何时结束。
March 22, 2002.
2002 年 3 月 22 日。
Robert Kurson wrote about what happened that night, in an article that ended up in an anthology of best American crime reporting.
罗伯特·库森在一篇文章中描述了那天晚上发生的事情，该文章最终被收录在美国最佳犯罪报道选集中。
This story gets a little grisly.
这个故事有点可怕。
A new deputy was on duty in the town.
一名新的代表在镇上值班。
A deputy named Adam Streicher, 23 year old guy, who was very new to the force.
一名副警长名叫 Adam Streicher，23 岁，刚加入警队。
And wanted to do something useful.
并想做一些有用的事情。
He's looking for something to do.
他正在找事做。
And so he rummaged around in the courthouse and in the station for any outstanding warrants that might need to be served.
因此，他在法院和车站里翻箱倒柜，寻找任何可能需要送达的未决逮捕令。
On this night he did find an outstanding warrant.
今晚他确实找到了一份未执行的搜查令。
One that was five months old, and that was to be served on a local resident named Curt Thompson.
其中一个已经五个月大了，是要送给一位名叫科特·汤普森的当地居民的。
He didn't know Curt Thompson, and it was just for failure to pay some court costs and fines from a previous case.
他不认识科特·汤普森，只是因为之前的案件没有支付一些法庭费用和罚款。
So he took the warrant, got in the deputy's squad car, and started to drive the short distance to Curt Thompson's house.
于是他拿着搜查令，坐上副警长的警车，开始开车前往科特·汤普森的家。
Curt Thompson came to the door, and was informed by Deputy Streicher that he had a warrant for Curtis Thompson.
柯特·汤普森 (Curt Thompson) 来到门口，斯特莱歇副警长告诉他，他对柯蒂斯·汤普森 (Curtis Thompson) 有逮捕令。
Thompson went back into his house, and came out with a shotgun.
汤普森回到自己的房子，带着一把猎枪出来。
Lifted it up, and blew away Deputy Streicher's face and shoulder.
把它举起来，炸飞了斯特赖歇副警长的脸和肩膀。
Probably killed him instantly.
说不定立刻就杀了他。
Then, Thompson took the deputy's pistol, jumped in the squad car, lights flashing, and set off to settle some scores.
然后，汤普森拿起副警长的手枪，跳上警车，灯光闪烁，出发去算账。
Just around the corner, he visits two neighbors that he'd been feuding with for years.
就在拐角处，他拜访了两个多年来一直不和的邻居。
And shoots them, right in front of their ten year old daughter.
然后当着他们十岁女儿的面射杀了他们。
Maybe a half-minute drive from there, Thompson rams into another neighbor on the street that he doesn't like, but the guy gets away.
距离那里大约半分钟车程，汤普森在街上撞到了他不喜欢的另一个邻居，但那家伙逃脱了。
Thompson goes looking for yet another neighbor he has a grudge against, but that guy's not home.
汤普森去找另一个他有怨恨的邻居，但那个人不在家。
What Robert Kurson found, digging into old court records, talking to all sorts of people in Toulon, was that this man, Curt Thompson, had been getting into all sorts of angry episodes and disputes with various neighbors for 30 years.
罗伯特·库森 (Robert Kurson) 深入挖掘旧的法庭记录，并与土伦的各种人士交谈后发现，这个名叫科特·汤普森 (Curt Thompson) 的人在 30 年来一直与不同的邻居发生各种愤怒的事件和争执。
You could get too close to him at the grocery.
你可能在杂货店离他太近了。
You could drive too close to him.
你可能开车离他太近了。
Very, very minor, petty things that third or fourth graders might complain about in grade school.
三四年级的学生在小学时可能会抱怨非常非常小的事情。
In one case, I think someone's laundry blew on to his property.
在一个案例中，我认为某人的衣服被风吹到了他的财产上。
And that marked the offender for vendetta for years.
这标志着罪犯多年来的仇杀。
Well, Curt began, as we say, casing my house.
好吧，正如我们所说，柯特开始包围我的房子。
Driving by slowly, and watching what I would be doing at my home.
慢慢地开车经过，看着我在家里做什么。
And checking on my dog, and that sort of stuff.
并检查我的狗，诸如此类的事情。
And giving me the eye, glaring at me.
并且用眼睛瞪着我。
To a degree.
在某种程度上。
Because Curt had a reputation for swinging first and asking questions later, that sort of thing.
因为科特以先摇摆、后提问之类的方式而闻名。
It was well known that he had a very bad temper.
众所周知，他的脾气很坏。
Yeah.
是的。
Rick Collins That he could become violently angry.
里克·柯林斯 他可能会变得非常愤怒。
Rick Collins got on Curt Thompson's bad side when Curt's dog bit a child who lived nearby.
当科特·汤普森的狗咬了住在附近的一个孩子时，里克·柯林斯对科特·汤普森不利。
At the time, Rick was the mayor of Toulon.
当时，里克是土伦市长。
And he sent out the city marshall, the policeman who is on the city payroll, to do a routine call about the incident.
他还派出了市法警，也就是市政府的警察，就这起事件进行例行通话。
Check that the dog was vaccinated, and properly registered.
检查狗是否已接种疫苗并正确注册。
It led to some fines and a little bit of trouble for Curt Thompson.
这给科特·汤普森带来了一些罚款和一些麻烦。
Somewhere in this period, there was a retirement party nearby.
就在这个时期的某个时候，附近有一场退休聚会。
About seven miles from town, just over the county line in the next county.
距城镇约七英里，就在下一个县的县线上方。
And I had stopped by to wish the retiree a happy retirement.
我顺便祝这位退休人员退休生活愉快。
Curt and his wife were there.
柯特和他的妻子也在场。
And in the process of walking past their table, I stopped and said hello Curt, and hello Virginia, just as I've said it to you.
在走过他们的桌子的过程中，我停下来向柯特问好，还有弗吉尼亚，就像我对你说过的那样。
And as it came to pass, Curt followed me out.
当事情发生时，柯特跟着我出去了。
And began shouting and yelling obscenities at me, and when we reached a staircase, he basically hit me from behind, pushing me down a flight of stairs.
他开始对我大喊大叫，脏话连篇，当我们到达楼梯时，他基本上从后面打了我，把我推下了一段楼梯。
And I wasn't injured, I caught myself without tumbling.
我没有受伤，我稳住了自己，没有摔倒。
And got to the bottom, and I thought, boy, this is not good.
追根究底，我想，孩子，这可不好。
I got outside and drove home.
我出去开车回家。
And at that point, I think I did turn it in.
那时，我想我确实把它交了。
I called the sheriff and reported what had happened.
我打电话给治安官并报告了所发生的事情。
And they were not interested.
他们不感兴趣。
They said well, it happened in another county, so, not to worry.
他们说好吧，这件事发生在另一个县，所以，不用担心。
So I called the district attorney of that county, because, I thought well, this isn't really good, pushing public officials down a flight of stairs.
所以我打电话给该县的地方检察官，因为，我想，这真的不太好，把公职人员推下楼梯。
And that state's attorney wasn't too interested in pursuing it, and that's kind of where it lay.
该州的检察官对追究此事并不太感兴趣，这就是问题所在。
In fact, this was the pattern around town for decades.
事实上，这就是镇上几十年来的模式。
People would try to get the police and courts to take action.
人们会试图让警察和法院采取行动。
But either they wouldn't pick up the case, or if they did, Curt Thompson would just get a slap on the wrist.
但要么他们不接案子，要么即使他们接案，科特·汤普森也会受到惩罚。
Some of his actions were shocking.
他的一些举动令人震惊。
He threatened the sheriff, repeatedly.
他多次威胁警长。
Told him he'd bury him.
告诉他他会埋葬他。
Ran him off the road.
把他赶出了路。
And only ended up with $111 fine, and 100 hours of community service.
最终只被罚款 111 美元，并接受 100 小时的社区服务。
The couple that he eventually murdered, Jim and Janet Giesenhagen, he'd been feuding with for over a decade.
他最终谋杀了吉姆·吉森哈根和珍妮特·吉森哈根这对夫妇，他们之间已经有十多年的不和了。
He'd circle around their house in his truck at 8:00 in the morning, when their daughter was just leaving for school.
早上 8:00，当他们的女儿刚去上学时，他会开着卡车绕着他们的房子转一圈。
They started driving her, even though the school was just a few blocks away.
他们开始开车送她，尽管学校就在几个街区之外。
One day Thompson told them that he'd kill them.
有一天，汤普森告诉他们，他会杀了他们。
They got a judge to issue an order of protection, ordering him to stay away.
他们请法官发布保护令，命令他远离。
He didn't.
他没有。
In the next days, there was Thompson in his truck, glaring.
接下来的几天里，汤普森坐在他的卡车里，怒目而视。
And so Giesenhagen, believing that all he needed was evidence of this violation of the order of protection, and that would finally, hopefully, put Thompson away, attaches a video camera to his home and tapes Thompson breaking, repeatedly, these orders of protection.
因此，吉森哈根相信他所需要的只是违反保护令的证据，并且最终有望将汤普森赶走，他在他的家中安装了一台摄像机，并拍摄了汤普森反复违反这些保护令的情况。
According to what I was told, these tapes were turned over to authorities, and nothing happened.
据我所知，这些录音带已移交给当局，但什么也没发生。
I watched every minute, every second of those videotapes.
我看了那些录像带的每一分钟、每一秒。
There was nothing on there that you could use as evidence to substantiate bringing in a criminal charge.
那里没有任何东西可以用作证据来证实提起刑事指控。
Richard Schwind is with the Illinois attorney general's office, and worked on the murder case against Curt Thompson.
理查德·施温德 (Richard Schwind) 在伊利诺伊州总检察长办公室工作，负责调查科特·汤普森 (Curt Thompson) 谋杀案。
The tapes that we were given did not show a violation.
我们收到的录音带没有显示出违规行为。
It showed that Mr. Thompson would drive on the public way behind the Giesenhagen home.
显示汤普森先生将在吉森哈根家后面的公共道路上行驶。
But there was nothing to show that would substantiate any violation.
但没有任何证据表明存在任何违规行为。
So if he was just driving through this alley, that wouldn't constitute a violation.
因此，如果他只是开车穿过这条小巷，就不构成违规。
No. He had a right to be on a public way.
不。他有权出现在公共场合。
If he went on to the Giesenhagen property, that would be a different story.
如果他继续前往吉森哈根庄园，那将是一个不同的故事。
Mr. Thompson knew how far to push the envelope, and how far to go before violating the law.
汤普森先生知道要挑战极限，以及在违法之前要走多远。
Sure enough, says the former mayor, Rick Collins.
前市长里克·柯林斯 (Rick Collins) 说，果然如此。
But he believes that when he was mayor, there were clear opportunities for Toulon to do more to stop Curt Thompson.
但他相信，当他担任市长时，土伦显然有机会采取更多措施来阻止科特·汤普森。
And especially for the town policemen, to enforce rules against Curt Thompson.
特别是对于镇警察来说，要执行针对科特·汤普森的规则。
But the policemen, he says, wouldn't take action.
但他说，警察不会采取行动。
There had been complaints previously about Curt's wood pile, and the trash around his house, and abandoned cars.
此前曾有人抱怨柯特的木头堆、他房子周围的垃圾以及废弃的汽车。
That sort of thing.
诸如此类的事情。
And our city marshall wasn't too interested in pursuing anything with Curt.
我们的市警官对与柯特一起追求任何事情并不太感兴趣。
Why?
为什么？
Rick Collins Well, you know.
里克·柯林斯 嗯，你知道。
I think that I should preface this by saying, we've all got blood on our hands.
我想我应该在开头说，我们手上都沾满了鲜血。
All of us should have pressed the issue.
我们所有人都应该强调这个问题。
Do you remember having conversations with the marshall, with the sheriff, with the police?
你还记得与法警、治安官、警察的谈话吗？
Where you'd say, you know, we've got to enforce this?
你会说，你知道，我们必须强制执行这一点吗？
Yes.
是的。
I did say, we have to do something about this, it's only going to get worse.
我确实说过，我们必须对此采取一些措施，情况只会变得更糟。
And what'd they say?
他们说什么？
Rick Collins They said, don't worry about it.
里克·柯林斯 他们说，别担心。
It's our problem.
这是我们的问题。
Hm.
嗯。
Rick Collins There was no appetite for enforcing any ordinances in regard to Curt.
里克·柯林斯 (Rick Collins) 没有兴趣执行任何与科特有关的法令。
This was one of the reasons I resigned.
这也是我辞职的原因之一。
If you can't control your city employees and the city council is not willing to back you up, then you really have no business being the mayor.
如果你不能控制你的城市雇员，市议会也不愿意支持你，那你真的没有资格当市长。
See I wonder, even if you all had enforced all these things-- the level of punishment that Curt Thompson would have gotten would have been pretty minimal.
我想知道，即使你们都强制执行了所有这些事情——科特·汤普森受到的惩罚程度也将是相当小的。
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Ira Glass And so in the end, would it have actually forestalled a big tragedy happening like what happened?
Ira Glass 那么最终，它真的能阻止像现在这样的大悲剧发生吗？
Yes I believe it would have, Ira.
是的，我相信会的，艾拉。
It's been my observation that whether one is a schoolteacher, or a policeman, or regardless of your position, even in the unemployer.
据我观察，无论是一名教师，还是一名警察，或者无论你的职位如何，甚至在失业者中。
When you have rules, and the rules are enforced unequivocally, when people know that certain actions bring certain results.
当你有规则，并且规则得到明确执行，当人们知道某些行为会带来某些结果时。
They tend not to violate the rules.
他们往往不会违反规则。
And Curt is no different than the rest of us.
柯特和我们其他人没有什么不同。
And when an individual feels that they are above or immune, or can violate law with impunity, they will do so.
当一个人觉得自己高高在上或免疫时，或者可以违法而不受惩罚时，他们就会这样做。
And they'll continue to do it with increasing severity until something happens.
他们将继续以越来越严厉的方式这样做，直到事情发生为止。
It's interesting to hear.
听起来很有趣。
Like you feel very confident that if lines had been drawn early on, it would never have gotten to this point.
就像你非常有信心，如果早点划定界限，事情就永远不会发展到这一步。
Without a doubt.
无疑。
Absolutely without a doubt.
绝对毫无疑问。
There's no question in my mind whatsoever.
我心里没有任何疑问。
Rick Collins says that he tried to get the six members of the Toulon city council to act, to force the town policemen to go after Curt Thompson, there was so little interest, they never even came to a vote.
里克·柯林斯说，他试图让土伦市议会的六名成员采取行动，迫使镇警察去追捕科特·汤普森，但他们对此兴趣不大，甚至从未进行过投票。
The Toulon policeman that he wanted to take action is named Bob Taylor.
他想要采取行动的土伦警察名叫鲍勃·泰勒。
He's still the marshall in Toulon.
他仍然是土伦的元帅。
And he says that he has no regrets about how he handled Curt Thompson.
他说他对处理科特·汤普森的方式并不后悔。
Curt Thompson was not like other people.
科特·汤普森与其他人不同。
Or at least most people in a small town.
或者至少是小镇上的大多数人。
He was very anti-social.
他非常反社会。
He was just a guy that I think aggressive action may have just sped things up, not headed them off.
我认为他的激进行为可能只是加速了事情的发展，而不是阻止了事情的发展。
You think aggressive action would have had the opposite effect from what the mayor is saying?
您认为激进的行动会产生与市长所说的相反的效果吗？
You think aggressive action actually would have set him off?
你认为激进的行为实际上会让他生气吗？
Right.
正确的。
He'd have probably been as defiant as he normally was.
他可能会像平时一样目中无人。
Probably would have pushed things to the limit.
可能会把事情推向极限。
Normally, when somebody's in trouble in Toulon, people step in to help.
通常，当有人在土伦遇到麻烦时，人们会伸出援手。
When Dean Greave got sick a few weeks ago, some neighbors harvested his corn and beans.
几周前迪恩·格里夫生病时，一些邻居收割了他的玉米和豆类。
When a big wind storm knocked out power for a few days this summer, people showered in each other's houses, helped out as they could.
今年夏天，一场大风暴导致停电几天，人们在彼此的房子里洗澡，尽力提供帮助。
Every few weeks, there are all sorts of benefit suppers, and dances, and auctions for people who are sick or doing badly.
每隔几周，就会为生病或表现不佳的人举办各种福利晚宴、舞会和拍卖会。
Where usually 100 to 300 people show up.
通常有 100 至 300 人出现。
This, remember, in a town of 1,400.
请记住，这是在一个 1,400 人的小镇上发生的。
With Curt Thompson, the community collectively decided to avoid the problem.
通过 Curt Thompson，社区集体决定避免这个问题。
Jim Nowlan edits the town paper, the Stark County News.
吉姆·诺兰 (Jim Nowlan) 编辑镇报纸《斯塔克县新闻》(Stark County News)。
He says maybe a half dozen people were being harassed by Curt Thompson at any given time.
他说，在任何特定时间，可能有六人受到科特·汤普森的骚扰。
But it just wasn't the sort of thing you could hold a benefit for.
但这不是你可以享受福利的事情。
It wasn't clear exactly what to do.
目前还不清楚到底要做什么。
I think if you were to do a movie about a story like this, there would probably be some Jimmy Stewart type who would become so aroused, maybe at the lack of action taken by others, that he would simply, you know, carrying a torch, gather the townsfolk in the square and march on Curt Thomson's house.
我想如果你要拍一部关于这样的故事的电影，可能会有一些吉米·斯图尔特类型的人会变得如此兴奋，也许是因为其他人缺乏行动，他会简单地，你知道，举着火把，聚集广场上的镇民，向柯特·汤姆森的房子游行。
And simply demand that he come out and apologize, and commit never to do anything like that again.
并要求他出来道歉，并承诺不再做类似的事情。
But that didn't happen.
但那并没有发生。
Though Jim Nowlan sounds a little bit like Jimmy Stewart as he says all this, there was no Jimmy Stewart in town to end the story that way.
尽管吉姆·诺兰说的这一切听起来有点像吉米·斯图尔特，但镇上没有吉米·斯图尔特以这种方式结束这个故事。
And if anything, the scenario that people in Toulon sometimes talked about for Curt Thompson is a much darker one.
如果说有什么不同的话，那就是土伦人有时为柯特·汤普森谈论的场景是一个更加黑暗的场景。
Here's Robert Kurson, the reporter.
请听记者罗伯特·库森的报道。
Many people in the aftermath, thought that someone should have gone and taken care of him physically.
事后许多人认为应该有人去照顾他的身体。
Yes.
是的。
That vigilante justice was the only option remaining.
私刑正义是剩下的唯一选择。
In the story that you wrote, you tell the story at one point of the town of Skidmore, Missouri in 1981.
在您写的故事中，您讲述了 1981 年密苏里州斯基德莫尔镇的一个地点的故事。
And they faced a similar kind of figure, a guy named Ken McElroy, who got into all sorts of feuds.
他们面对的是一个类似的人物，一个名叫肯·麦克尔罗伊的人，他陷入了各种各样的争斗。
Talk about what happened in that case.
谈谈那个案例中发生的事情。
It was a very similar set-up.
这是一个非常相似的设置。
The town, like Toulon, watched out for each other.
这个城镇就像土伦一样，互相提防。
They took care of each other.
他们互相照顾。
This guy rode into town and started terrorizing, in much the same way that Curt Thompson did.
这家伙骑马进城并开始恐吓，就像科特·汤普森那样。
He kept vendettas going.
他不断地仇杀。
He was violent.
他很暴力。
And he seemed above the law.
他似乎凌驾于法律之上。
The reaction of the people in Skidmore was different than it was in Toulon.
斯基德莫尔人们的反应与土伦人们的反应不同。
They surrounded his truck in broad daylight, 30 or 40 of them, and murdered him.
他们在光天化日之下包围了他的卡车，有三十或四十人，然后谋杀了他。
Someone shot him.
有人开枪射杀了他。
30 or 40 witnesses.
30 或 40 名证人。
The police came in to solve the murder.
警察介入侦破这起谋杀案。
Nobody would say who fired the shots.
没有人会说是谁开枪的。
Nobody would talk.
没有人会说话。
Everybody knew who did it.
每个人都知道是谁干的。
To this day, that case in Missouri remains open and unsolved.
直到今天，密苏里州的这起案件仍然悬而未决。
Nobody will speak.
没有人会说话。
It's funny, the idea of, you know, we should look out for each other, we should be each other's keeper.
这很有趣，你知道，我们应该互相照顾，我们应该成为彼此的守护者。
We usually think of it as driving us towards acts of kindness.
我们通常认为它会促使我们做出善行。
You know when somebody's sick, when somebody's in trouble.
你知道什么时候有人生病，什么时候有人遇到麻烦。
It's odd to think of it as being an impulse that would actually drive a group of people to kill somebody.
认为这是一种实际上会驱使一群人杀人的冲动，这很奇怪。
Well everybody in this town agreed on one thing.
这个镇上的每个人都同意一件事。
They could either hope that nothing bad happened, and just continue to live with the problem.
他们要么希望没有发生什么不好的事情，然后继续忍受这个问题。
Or, blank.
或者，空白。
The town of Skidmore, Missouri filled in the blank.
密苏里州斯基德莫尔镇填补了这一空白。
The town of Toulon was not able to fill in that blank.
土伦镇无法填补这一空白。
Of course, if you're in a situation where your only choices are, do nothing, or vigilante murder, things can't get much worse.
当然，如果你面临的情况是你唯一的选择是，什么也不做，或者私刑谋杀，事情不会变得更糟。
Chris Thompson went to trial for his three murders.
克里斯·汤普森因三起谋杀案接受审判。
These days he sits on death row, where, if Illinois lifts its moratorium on the death penalty someday, the people of Illinois will finally fill in that blank.
这些天他坐在死囚牢房里，如果伊利诺伊州有一天解除暂停死刑，伊利诺伊州人民最终将填补这一空白。
Our program was produced today by Diane Cook and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Jane [?
今天我们的节目由黛安·库克和我自己以及亚历克斯·布隆伯格、简[？
Kolumbiski ?] and Starlee Kine, our senior producer's Julie Snyder.
Kolumbiski ？] 和 Starlee Kine，我们的高级制片人 Julie Snyder。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Kelsey [?
托德·巴赫曼和凯尔西的制作帮助[？
Diltz ?].
迪尔茨？]。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org, where you can listen to our shows are free, or now, you can buy CDs , do you hear me, CDs.
[致谢] 我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org，您可以免费收听我们的节目，或者现在，您可以购买 CD，听到了吗，CD。
Or you can download audio of our show at audible.com/thisamericanlife, where they have public radio programs, bestselling books, even the New York Times, all at audible.com.
或者您可以在 audible.com/thisamericanlife 下载我们节目的音频，那里有公共广播节目、畅销书，甚至纽约时报，所有这些都在 audible.com 上。
This American life is driven by Public Radio International.
这种美国人的生活是由国际公共广播电台推动的。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who reminds me all the time, "Pardon me, but I'm going to say this bluntly.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理监督由 Torey Malatia 负责，他一直提醒我，“请原谅，但我要直言不讳地说这一点。
Most of the country doesn't give a dick about what you say, or what I say." And yet, we'll be back next week, with more stories of this American life.
这个国家的大多数人并不关心你说的话，或者我说的话。”然而，我们下周会回来，带来更多关于美国生活的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。