247: What Is This Thing? - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #247 | February 4, 2005 247: What Is This Thing?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 247 集 | 2005 年 2 月 4 日 247：这是什么东西？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
序言 Ira Glass 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是美国生活，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
[SINGING] What is this thing called love?
[歌唱]这叫爱情的东西是什么？
This funny thing called love?
这种有趣的东西叫做爱情？
Just who can solve its mystery?
到底谁能解开其中的谜团呢？
Why should it make a fool of me?
为什么它要愚弄我呢？
If you listen to the lyrics to this song, I have to say, it couldn't really be stated more simply.
如果你听过这首歌的歌词，我不得不说，这真是简单得不能再简单了。
I had you.
我有你。
It was happy.
很高兴。
You left.
你离开了。
What was that about?
那是关于什么的？
More than any other pop song, it just kind of throws its hands in the air and says, what the hell?
与其他流行歌曲相比，它更像是举起双手说，到底是什么？
Not even at the person who left, but at the very idea of love.
甚至不是针对那个离开的人，而是针对爱的想法。
Here's Keely Smith.
请听基利·史密斯的报道。
Keely Smith [SINGING] I saw you there one wonderful day.
基利·史密斯（Keely Smith）[唱歌]我在那里见到了你，这是美好的一天。
You took my heart and threw it away.
你带走了我的心，然后把它扔掉了。
That's why I ask the Lord in heaven above-- what is this thing called love?
所以我问天上的主——什么叫爱？
Here's a story for you.
这是给你的一个故事。
Back during World War II, an infantryman named Joe Garland fell in love-- completely, breath-stoppingly in love-- with this college student named Helen Bryan.
第二次世界大战期间，一位名叫乔·加兰的步兵爱上了——彻底地、令人窒息地爱上了一位名叫海伦·布莱恩的大学生。
They wrote back and forth, and when the war ended, he was eager to get married.
他们来来回回写信，战争结束后，他急于结婚。
But her parents thought that she was too young.
但她的父母认为她太年轻。
They wanted her to finish school.
他们希望她完成学业。
They did not see what all the hurry was.
他们不明白为什么这么着急。
He wouldn't have it.
他不会拥有它。
So he went off and made very hasty decisions, and was married within, what?
所以他就走了，做出了非常仓促的决定，然后就结婚了，什么？
To someone else.
给别人。
Within about six months.
大约六个月内。
A great surprise, to say the least, to me.
至少可以说，对我来说是一个很大的惊喜。
I was terribly impatient.
我非常不耐烦。
I wanted to get married.
我想结婚。
I wanted to have children.
我想要孩子。
A little house in the suburbs.
郊区的一栋小房子。
Do everything that we'd been deprived of, that we'd given up of, that we didn't know whether we were ever going to come back to.
做所有我们被剥夺的、我们放弃的、我们不知道是否还能回来的事情。
We've got to get in there.
我们必须进去。
We've got to do it now.
我们现在就必须这么做。
Everything you've got to do now.
你现在要做的一切。
You've got to do everything now.
你现在必须做所有事情。
Because you don't know whether you're going to be alive in another hour, or another day, or another year.
因为你不知道自己是否还能在一个小时、一天或一年后活着。
Joe gets the family he wants, has two kids.
乔得到了他想要的家庭，有两个孩子。
Helen marries later, has four kids.
海伦后来结婚，育有四个孩子。
Everybody's doing great.
每个人都做得很好。
30 years pass.
30年过去了。
And he's doing some research on the war years and needs to ask Helen some things.
他正在做一些关于战争年代的研究，需要问海伦一些事情。
So they see each other.
于是他们就看到了对方。
Sit down and talk for the first time, really since they broke up.
自从他们分手以来，第一次坐下来说话。
They have lunch.
他们吃午饭了。
And I must say that I felt a remarkable sort of a glow, kind of a glow.
我必须说，我感到一种非凡的光芒，一种光芒。
And when I went on home, I didn't know what I was happening.
当我回家时，我不知道发生了什么。
I had to pull over into a rest area, and I moved up in there, and I stopped the car.
我不得不把车停到一个休息区，然后我就到了那里，然后把车停了下来。
And I turned off the engine.
我关掉了引擎。
And I put my head down and I just wept.
我低下头哭了。
I just sobbed.
我只是抽泣。
I just sobbed.
我只是抽泣。
I wept.
我哭了。
I was so overcome with just-- here was this person again, here was this woman again.
我感到非常震惊——又是这个人，又是这个女人。
They both conclude that it's something they can't ignore.
他们都得出结论，这是他们不能忽视的事情。
They divorce their spouses, they surprise their kids, and they marry each other.
他们与配偶离婚，给孩子一个惊喜，然后互相结婚。
And now, over 20 years later, they still talk like a young couple in love.
如今，20多年过去了，他们的谈吐依然像热恋中的小情侣。
They moon over each other.
他们互相注视着对方。
It's an amazing gift to have found.
这是一份令人惊奇的礼物。
And I think I could have gone through my life not knowing this was possible.
我想我可能一生都不知道这是可能的。
I was out doing errands today, and I came back, and I heard the piano playing.
今天我出去办事，回来后听到钢琴声。
And I came in.
我进来了。
She didn't hear me come in.
她没有听到我进来。
And I stood in the doorway-- the piano is in there-- I just stood in the doorway listening.
我站在门口——钢琴就在那里——我只是站在门口听。
And I was absolutely transported.
我完全被感动了。
I just stood there and I watched her, playing the piano.
我只是站在那里，看着她弹钢琴。
And I thought, this is so wonderful.
我想，这太棒了。
But if you ask them, what is this thing?
但如果你问他们，这是什么东西？
What is different about the love that they're feeling now compared with the love that they each felt in the decades they spent married to other people?
他们现在感受到的爱与他们与其他人结婚几十年时感受到的爱相比有什么不同？
It gets hard to describe.
很难描述。
The marriages, I think, were workable.
我认为这些婚姻是可行的。
But it's just the interrelatedness on so many different levels.
但这只是许多不同层面上的相互关联性。
If you can share many, many levels of interest in common, it's very, very rewarding.
如果你们能够分享很多很多共同的兴趣，那是非常非常有价值的。
Our reporter Sean Cole went around and around with them on this.
我们的记者肖恩·科尔就此事与他们进行了一番探讨。
And although these are the most articulate people in the world-- she works with the UN, he's written 22 books-- they kept talking about very prosaic things, very sensible things.
尽管这些人是世界上最善于表达的人——她在联合国工作，他写了 22 本书——但他们一直在谈论非常平淡的事情，非常明智的事情。
Like sharing.
喜欢分享。
Until finally Sean asked, isn't there anything more primal at work also?
直到最后肖恩问，工作中难道没有更原始的东西吗？
And they both said, well, of course.
他们都说，好吧，当然。
Joe and I have never questioned that part of our relationship.
乔和我从未质疑过我们关系的这一部分。
That there's been a natural magnetism all along.
一直以来都有一种自然的吸引力。
You know?
你知道？
Good grief!
好悲伤！
I don't I've ever heard you put it quite that way.
我从来没有听过你这么说过。
That's very nice.
这非常好。
I love that.
我喜欢那个。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Which, I suppose, just brings us back to our original question.
我想这让我们回到了最初的问题。
[SINGING] What is this thing called love?
[歌唱]这叫爱情的东西是什么？
This funny thing called love?
这种有趣的东西叫做爱情？
Today on our program, people trying to answer this very straightforward question.
今天在我们的节目中，人们试图回答这个非常简单的问题。
Our show in three acts.
我们的演出分三幕。
Act One, Inside the Romance Industry.
第一幕，浪漫产业内部。
Act Two, The View From the Other Half.
第二幕，另一半的观点。
In that act, four people who've had to reconsider all their ideas about dating and love.
在那一幕中，四个人不得不重新考虑他们关于约会和爱情的所有想法。
Act Three, a real-life love story.
第三幕，一个真实的爱情故事。
That one from writer Sarah Vowell.
作家莎拉·沃威尔的那一篇。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One.
第一幕。
Because we live in an industrial democracy, there is a business to cater to pretty much every human need that we have.
因为我们生活在一个工业民主国家，所以有一种企业可以满足我们几乎所有的人类需求。
And that includes our need for romance.
这包括我们对浪漫的需求。
There are businesses in flowers and cards and diamonds and getaway spots.
有鲜花、贺卡、钻石和度假胜地的生意。
And there are romance novels, where an entire industry is answering the question "what is this thing called love?" for a living.
还有言情小说，整个行业都在回答“爱情是什么？”这个问题。为了谋生。
Reporter Robin Epstein attended the annual convention of the Romance Writers of America at the New York Hilton.
记者罗宾·爱泼斯坦出席了在纽约希尔顿酒店举行的美国浪漫主义作家年会。
Four days, 2400 attendees.
四天，2400 名与会者。
Romance writers know what you think of them, and they don't give a rat's ass.
浪漫小说作家知道你对他们的看法，而且他们不会太在意。
One of the first conversations I had at the Romance Writers of America conference is with Jennifer Crusie and Patricia Gaffney, two of the most prominent and bestselling writers on the market today.
我在美国浪漫作家会议上进行的第一次对话之一是与詹妮弗·克鲁西和帕特里夏·加夫尼的交谈，他们是当今市场上最著名和最畅销的两位作家。
And they wearily list the most annoying questions that are repeatedly asked by people like-- well, like people like me.
他们疲倦地列出了最烦人的问题，这些问题是由像我这样的人反复提出的。
Aren't you ashamed?
你不感到羞耻吗？
Patricia Gaffney When are you going to write a real book?
帕特里夏·加夫尼（Patricia Gaffney）你什么时候要写一本真正的书？
Well, what does your mother think?
嗯，你妈妈觉得怎么样？
Why do you have those stupid covers?
为什么你有那些愚蠢的封面？
The knee-jerk thing is now, we'll read a sex scene on the air and everybody will laugh about it, and then will ask you how you research your sex scenes, and it's this big joke, and of course, you will laugh too.
现在下意识的事情是，我们会在广播中读到一个性爱场景，每个人都会笑，然后会问你如何研究你的性爱场景，这是一个大笑话，当然，你也会笑。
And then if you try to defend it, you're one of those feminists without a sense of humor.
如果你试图捍卫它，你就是那些没有幽默感的女权主义者之一。
In my defense, I will say I was expecting to find an entirely different breed of humorless woman here-- humorless-delusionals.
在我的辩护中，我会说我希望在这里找到一种完全不同的毫无幽默感的女人——毫无幽默感的妄想症。
But instead, I immediately find myself encountering smart, funny women who are part of a business empire, one with rules and behaviors all its own.
但相反，我立即发现自己遇到了聪明、有趣的女性，她们是商业帝国的一部分，有自己的规则和行为。
Welcome to RWA.
欢迎来到 RWA。
I'm very excited that you all came, and I hope that today we can talk about your manuscripts, and what you have to pitch to me, and we can talk about that.
我很高兴你们都来了，我希望今天我们可以讨论你们的手稿，以及你们要向我推销的内容，我们可以讨论这些。
OK?
好的？
So-- Liz.
所以——莉兹。
I am working on my tenth book.
我正在写我的第十本书。
I'm going to be pitching to you my ninth book.
我将向你们推销我的第九本书。
And I've done fairly well in the contest circuit this year.
我在今年的巡回赛中取得了相当不错的成绩。
I've finaled in the Dixie-- final number one-- the Dixie, the Laurie, the Molly, and--
我最终进入了迪克西——最终第一名——迪克西、劳里、莫莉，还有——
This smartly-dressed woman, Liz Bemis, is a web designer from Ohio, and like almost all the other conference attendees, an aspiring novelist.
这位衣着考究的女士名叫莉兹·比米斯 (Liz Bemis)，是一位来自俄亥俄州的网页设计师，和几乎所有其他与会者一样，她也是一位有抱负的小说家。
She's stammering through one of the most nerve-wracking parts of the convention-- the editor pitch meeting.
她结结巴巴地讲完了大会上最令人伤脑筋的部分之一——编辑推介会议。
These early morning pitchfests in the basement of the New York Hilton are what draws most of the 2400 conference attendees.
纽约希尔顿酒店地下室的清晨宣传活动吸引了 2400 名与会者中的大多数。
This is their chance to describe what they've written to book editors in hopes of becoming a published author.
这是他们向图书编辑描述自己希望成为出版作家所写的内容的机会。
At folding tables set up in conference rooms, editors from all the major publishing houses-- Avon, Kensington, Berkeley, and of course, Harlequin-- sit with their notebooks and bottles of water.
会议室里设置的折叠桌旁，来自所有主要出版社——雅芳、肯辛顿、伯克利，当然还有哈立金——的编辑们都拿着笔记本和瓶装水坐着。
The would-be authors parade in four at a time and are given 20 minutes to make their pitch before the next group enters.
未来的作者每次分成四组，在下一组进入之前有 20 分钟的时间进行宣传。
My next book is called Falcon's Folly .
我的下一本书叫做《猎鹰的愚蠢》。
It's a--
这是一个——
Tell us what you're trying [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE].
告诉我们您正在尝试什么[难以理解的短语]。
OK.
好的。
Single title, 100,000 words.
单题，10万字。
It's the story of Jack Falcon, who's an ultra alpha DEA agent who has to abandon his testosterone-pickled ways in order to go undercover as a gay hairdresser to infiltrate a mob-led drug ring.
这是关于杰克·法尔肯 (Jack Falcon) 的故事，他是缉毒局的一名超级特工，为了卧底成为一名同性恋理发师，渗透到一个黑帮主导的贩毒团伙，他不得不放弃睾丸激素腌制的生活方式。
Fun!
乐趣！
Romantic suspense, with a little humor in it?
浪漫悬疑，带点幽默？
Yes.
是的。
Robin Epstein It's easy I understand why Liz and her fellow aspirants are here.
罗宾·爱泼斯坦（Robin Epstein） 我很容易理解为什么莉兹和她的志同道合者来到这里。
What's less obvious is why May Chen, the sleek, young, New York editor, has gotten up early on a Saturday morning to listen to her.
不太明显的是，为什么时尚、年轻的纽约编辑 May Chen 会在周六早上起得很早来听她讲话。
The answer-- money.
答案就是——钱。
Over half the paperback fiction sold in the United States last year was romance.
去年在美国销售的平装小说中，一半以上是爱情小说。
Over half.
超过一半。
It's a $1.52 billion a year industry.
这是一个年产值 15.2 亿美元的行业。
And how about this?
那这个又如何呢？
Romance writer Nora Roberts routinely outsells and outproduces Stephen King, Tom Clancy, and John Grisham.
浪漫小说作家诺拉·罗伯茨的销量和产量经常超过史蒂芬·金、汤姆·克兰西和约翰·格里沙姆。
If basketball coaches scout public courts for future stars, this year, the basement of the New York Hilton is the romance editors' [?
如果篮球教练在公共球场上寻找未来的明星，那么今年，纽约希尔顿酒店的地下室就是浪漫编辑的[？
Roscoe ?] Park.
罗斯科？]公园。
When Marissa finds out that Jack is indeed straight as an arrow and intent on bringing down her beloved and innocent Uncle Mario, she devises a deviously distracting plan that will have the tough guy agent begging for mercy and eventually winning her heart.
当玛丽莎发现杰克确实像箭一样正直，并且一心想要打倒她心爱的无辜叔叔马里奥时，她设计了一个狡猾的分散注意力的计划，让硬汉特工乞求怜悯并最终赢得她的心。
Ooh, that sounds like a really fun idea.
哦，这听起来是一个非常有趣的想法。
Sounds different.
听起来不一样。
Love the gay spin.
喜欢同性恋旋转。
Very clever.
非常聪明。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Robin Epstein This pitch perfectly incorporates all the elements of the typical romance novel, which is outlined by the Romance Writers of America on all its literature, and on its website, and by every representative I talked to.
罗宾·爱泼斯坦 这个宣传完美地融合了典型浪漫小说的所有元素，美国浪漫作家协会在其所有文学作品、其网站上以及我采访过的每一位代表都概述了这种小说。
At the beginning of the book, there's a conflict keeping our lovers apart, and by the last page, there's a happy ending.
在书的开头，有一场冲突使我们的恋人分开，而到了最后一页，就有了一个幸福的结局。
This is what the RWA guidelines call "emotional justice." Good is rewarded.
这就是 RWA 指南所说的“情感正义”。善有善报。
Evil is punished.
恶人受到惩罚。
Everyone gets what they deserve.
每个人都会得到他们应得的。
The problem, as every editor and writer knows, is that if there's always going to be a happy ending, why would you keep reading?
正如每个编辑和作家都知道的那样，问题在于，如果总是有一个幸福的结局，你为什么还要继续阅读呢？
The difference between a good romance novel and a bad one has to do with sheer writing skill-- how well the characters are developed, the author's voice, and the complexity of the obstacles standing between the lovers and their ultimate happiness.
一部好的言情小说和一本差的言情小说的区别在于纯粹的写作技巧——人物的发展程度、作者的声音、以及恋人与最终幸福之间障碍的复杂程度。
Outside this room, women mill around nervously awaiting their turns.
在这个房间外面，女人们紧张地走来走去，等待轮到她们。
Some practice their pitches, reading from index cards.
有些人通过阅读索引卡来练习音调。
Some take out pictures of their children.
有些人拿出孩子的照片。
The RWA stations volunteers down here to make sure things keep running on time, but it's no secret that the volunteers are also here to keep anxious writers from going over the edge.
RWA 派驻志愿者在这里确保一切按时进行，但众所周知，志愿者也在这里防止焦虑的作家超出极限。
This is volunteer Victoria Malvey.
我是志愿者维多利亚·马尔维。
She's a tall, maternal-looking woman with a lot of blonde hair.
她是一位身材高大、长着一头金发的母亲般的女人。
I can tell you that I had one woman that I had to sit down and put her head in between her legs, because seriously, I thought that she was going to faint.
我可以告诉你，我有一个女人，我不得不坐下来，把她的头放在两腿之间，因为说实话，我以为她会晕倒。
She got very pale, very shaky--
她的脸色变得非常苍白，非常颤抖——
Victoria, it turns out, isn't just some volunteer.
事实证明，维多利亚不仅仅是一名志愿者。
In fact, she doesn't need to be at this conference at all.
事实上，她根本不需要参加这个会议。
She's already achieved what most of these 2400 writers are dreaming of.
她已经实现了这 2400 名作家中大多数人的梦想。
You know, I've published eight books.
你知道，我已经出版了八本书。
And my first editor, I met here.
我的第一位编辑就是在这里认识的。
One of the scary ones.
其中最可怕的之一。
And she was very businesslike.
而且她非常务实。
And when I was waiting to see this scary editor, there was this author, Arnette Lamb, who is a wonderful author.
当我等待看到这个可怕的编辑时，有一位作家，阿内特·兰姆（Arnette Lamb），她是一位出色的作家。
She has since died of brain cancer, and so it was a very sad loss for the romance community.
她后来死于脑癌，所以这对浪漫界来说是一个非常悲伤的损失。
But she was from Texas, and she was big-hearted, and she was like, honey child, there's nothing to it!
但她来自德克萨斯州，心胸宽广，她说，亲爱的孩子，这没什么！
She's just wonderful.
她真是太棒了。
You'll have a great time.
你会玩得很开心的。
And it really settled something inside of me.
这确实解决了我内心的一些问题。
And I can honestly tell you that I do this volunteer, two hours, in honor of Arnette, because she did this for me.
我可以诚实地告诉你，我做这个志愿者两个小时是为了纪念阿内特，因为她为我做了这件事。
Did that scary editor ever appear as a villain in your stories?
那个可怕的编辑曾经在你的故事中作为反派出现过吗？
Oh.
哦。
How does one answer this and still remain politically correct?
如何回答这个问题并仍然保持政治正确？
I think you just did, and I think you just didn't!
我认为你刚刚做到了，我认为你只是没有！
A lot of the publishing pros here turn out to be surprisingly helpful, even the ones who claim at first that they're not.
这里的许多出版专家都出人意料地提供了帮助，即使是那些一开始声称自己没有帮助的人。
I was put on the planet to reject books.
我来到这个星球就是为了拒绝书籍。
I know that.
我知道。
Kate Duffy is the editorial director at Kensington Books.
凯特·达菲 (Kate Duffy) 是肯辛顿图书公司的编辑总监。
She's leading one of the 168 workshops being offered at the conference.
她正在主持会议举办的 168 个研讨会之一。
Her workshop is called Query Letter Practicum, and it's packed to overflowing with more than 200 people.
她的工作室名为“Query Letter Practicum”，里面挤满了 200 多人。
A stack of query letters she's recently received on her left, she starts reading them, and mocks each as she goes.
她左边放着一堆她最近收到的询问信，她开始阅读它们，边读边嘲笑每封信。
"Dear Ms. Duffy, Lizzie Hampton, the heroine of my light contemporary romance, work in progress, having recently lost half her body weight, heads to her childhood home, a rural corner of Michigan's Upper Peninsula.
“亲爱的达菲女士，莉齐·汉普顿，我的轻当代爱情故事中的女主角，正在创作中，她最近减掉了一半的体重，前往她儿时的家，密歇根上半岛的一个乡村角落。
She's in town to work out the sexual kinks in her new body with old flame Phil Robbins.
她来到城里是为了和旧情人菲尔·罗宾斯一起解决她新身体中的性问题。
Phil Robbins wanted to be the proprietor of Lizzie's virginity 18 years ago." The actual proprietor would be her parents, but um.
18 年前，菲尔·罗宾斯就想成为莉齐童贞的拥有者。”真正的所有者是她的父母，但是嗯。
There's another word you're thinking of-- recipient, probably.
您可能正在考虑另一个词——接收者。
[LAUGHTER] Just a guess!
[笑声] 只是猜测！
The cover letter goes on for several paragraphs.
求职信有好几段。
The bizarre plot turns continue.
离奇的剧情还在继续。
And Kate Duffy is not finished.
凯特·达菲的故事还没有结束。
"Trust and honesty become major hurdles for the couple.
“信任和诚实成为这对夫妇的主要障碍。
Add to that a hormone-raging 14-year-old boy, two best friends who obviously know best, and the Stanley Cup, and--"
再加上一个荷尔蒙肆虐的 14 岁男孩、两个显然最了解的最好的朋友，还有斯坦利杯，还有——”
I think I probably-- because I'm a nice person-- would ask to see this.
我想我可能——因为我是一个好人——会要求看这个。
I would be curious to see if you could pull it off.
我很好奇你是否能成功。
This happens over and over again.
这种情况一再发生。
A medieval historical with a nonsensical plot involving a dark duke with visions of the future and a glass-blowing heroine with a debt-ridden daddy?
一部中世纪历史，情节荒唐，涉及一位拥有未来愿景的黑暗公爵和一位负债累累的父亲的吹制玻璃的女主角？
Send in the first three chapters.
把前三章发过来。
A letter full of grammatical errors telling of a paranormal romance between a demon earl and a spunky woman bent on thwarting his plan, described in several paragraphs of impenetrable plot?
一封充满语法错误的信，讲述了一个恶魔伯爵和一个一心想要阻挠他的计划的勇敢女人之间的超自然浪漫，并用几段令人费解的情节描述？
Send it!
发送吧！
And then this contemporary suspense, involving an ace reporter who falls in with the Camden Thieves, a notorious gang of ne'er-do-wells.
然后是这个当代悬疑片，涉及一名王牌记者，他与臭名昭著的游手好闲的卡姆登盗贼团伙结下了不解之缘。
"Cold, naked, and lying flat on her back on the center of a lumpy mattress, Cathy thought her current situation couldn't get much worse.
“寒冷，赤身裸体，平躺在凹凸不平的床垫中央，凯茜认为她目前的情况不会变得更糟。
But she was wrong." [LAUGHTER] OK.
但她错了。” [笑声] 好的。
"'So you're finally awake,' a slightly masculine voice murmured beside her.
“‘你终于醒了。’一个略带男性气息的声音在她身边低声说道。
'I was beginning to think they'd handcuffed me to a corpse.' The man laughed.
“我开始以为他们把我铐在了尸体上。”男人笑了。
His voice then dropped seductively." Yeah, I laugh in situations like this all the time.
然后他的声音就变得诱人了。”是的，我总是在这种情况下笑。
"'Albeit a very attractive corpse.'"
“‘尽管是一具非常有吸引力的尸体。’”
OK.
好的。
This is silly, and I'm not a silly woman.
这很愚蠢，而且我不是一个愚蠢的女人。
I don't know who the Camden Thieves are.
我不知道卡姆登盗贼是谁。
But I think the query letter is at fault.
但我认为查询信有问题。
I don't think that the author is at fault.
我不认为作者有错。
I can't tell from this.
我无法从这一点看出。
You're giving me so many reasons to turn it down, I want to see what the hell you're up to!
你给了我这么多拒绝的理由，我倒要看看你到底想搞什么鬼！
Kate asks for the first three chapters of the manuscript.
凯特索要手稿的前三章。
What the hell is going on here?
这到底是怎么回事？
The famous authors are nice.
著名作家都很好。
The editors are nice.
编辑们都很好。
Everyone is nice.
每个人都很好。
And this is the publishing business.
这就是出版业。
I make my living as a writer.
我以作家为生。
I've written for magazines.
我为杂志撰稿。
I've been on the staff of network sitcoms.
我一直是网络情景喜剧的工作人员。
And I think I speak for all professional writers when I say that this is the twilight zone.
当我说这是暮光区时，我想我代表了所有专业作家。
Writers are actually receiving courtesy and encouragement from industry professionals, and almost more shockingly, from one another.
作家们实际上正在接受行业专业人士的礼貌和鼓励，更令人震惊的是，他们还互相交流。
Where's the back-biting?
背后咬人的地方在哪里？
The not getting your phone calls returned?
没有接到回电？
The people who send you form rejection letters and don't even take the time to sign them?
那些向您发送拒绝信但甚至不花时间签署的人？
Where's the humiliation?
哪里来的屈辱？
Why is everybody being so kind?
为什么大家都那么友善？
Well, it seems the answer to this question is twofold.
嗯，这个问题的答案似乎是双重的。
Part of what's going on here has to do with the numbers.
这里发生的事情部分与数字有关。
Publishing is a business that usually sees a lot of people fighting over a very small piece of pie.
出版业通常是很多人争夺一小块蛋糕的行业。
There can only be so many books published because, sadly, there are only so many readers, and only so much interest.
图书的出版量是有限的，可悲的是，读者的数量和兴趣也只有这么多。
But in the romance genre, because demand is so huge, they've got a very, very big pie.
但在爱情片中，由于需求如此巨大，他们的蛋糕非常非常大。
A big mainstream publisher like Simon and Schuster or W.W.
像 Simon and Schuster 或 W.W. 这样的大型主流出版商
Norton will almost never publish an unsolicited manuscript from an unknown writer.
诺顿几乎永远不会出版来自不知名作家的未经请求的手稿。
Not so for Kate Duffy.
对于凯特·达菲来说却并非如此。
We do four historicals every month, three contemporaries, four Regencies, and then we do other projects.
我们每个月都会做四部历史片、三部同时代片、四部摄政片，然后我们还会做其他项目。
Like, I personally am responsible for a line called Bravo, which is erotic romance.
比如，我个人负责一条叫做 Bravo 的线路，这是色情浪漫的。
I would say every month we probably buy two or three new books from people we don't know.
我想说每个月我们可能会从我们不认识的人那里购买两到三本新书。
And that's a huge number.
这是一个巨大的数字。
But demand is just one answer to the niceness puzzle.
但需求只是“美好”难题的答案之一。
The second becomes obvious when I enter an awards luncheon being held in one of the Hilton ballrooms.
当我参加在希尔顿宴会厅举行的颁奖午宴时，第二个问题变得显而易见。
As soon as I walk in, it's stark.
一走进去，眼前一片荒凉。
I'm immersed in a sea of 2000 female heads.
我沉浸在2000个女头的海洋里。
It's like the world's largest bachelorette party.
这就像世界上最大的单身派对。
The fact that this industry has been structured and run almost entirely by women makes a difference.
事实上，这个行业几乎完全由女性构建和经营，这一事实产生了影响。
Support networks abound.
支持网络比比皆是。
Virtually every town in the country has a romance writers' group, where wannabes can come to get encouragement and gentle critical feedback.
事实上，这个国家的每个城镇都有一个浪漫作家团体，想要成为浪漫作家的人可以来这里获得鼓励和温和的批评反馈。
And those who have succeeded make it a point to make time for others coming up.
那些已经成功的人会为其他成功的人腾出时间。
They become fans of one another.
他们成为彼此的粉丝。
Even the one man I ran into bought into the biological explanation for all this goodness.
就连我遇到的一个人也相信这一切美好事物的生物学解释。
Literary agent Steven Axelrod.
文学经纪人史蒂文·阿克塞尔罗德。
You know, women are just different.
你知道，女人就是不同。
If you had a bunch of men and this much money on the table, it would be a free-for-all.
如果你有一群人和这么多钱，那将是一场混战。
Testosterone would be just dripping off the walls.
睾丸激素会从墙上滴下来。
And I think there would be vendettas, there would be-- but it would be just big and nasty.
我认为会有仇杀，会有——但会是大而令人讨厌的。
And human nature is at work here.
人性在这里发挥作用。
So it's not, because it is women, all laws of human nature are suspended.
所以不是，因为是女人，所有的人性法则都被悬置了。
But it just happens to be a very nice group of people.
但这恰好是一群非常好的人。
Over half the annoying questions reporters always ask romance writers were ones I had scribbled in my notebook before I arrived here.
记者们总是问言情小说作家的恼人问题，有一半以上是我到达这里之前在笔记本上写下的问题。
And I managed to invent one of my own.
我成功地发明了自己的一款。
I thought it would be funny if I'd ask people at the conference if there was a difference between the romance in their lives and the romance in their books.
我想如果我问与会者生活中的浪漫和他们书中的浪漫是否有区别，那会很有趣。
Appropriately, I got a blank stares.
相应地，我得到了茫然的目光。
Like, honey, if you don't already know the answer to that ignorant question, I can't help you.
就像，亲爱的，如果你还不知道这个无知问题的答案，我帮不了你。
Romance fans are aware that the romance in the book is made up, thank you very much.
言情迷们知道，书中的言情都是编出来的，非常感谢。
Romance fans read for fun, and they're just as capable of laughing at their own genre as you are.
浪漫小说爱好者阅读是为了好玩，他们和你一样能够嘲笑自己的小说类型。
Here, Julia Madden and Victoria Dahl, two aspiring romance writers, talking about one of the classics in the genre with me and producer Alex Blumberg.
在这里，朱莉娅·马登和维多利亚·达尔，两位有抱负的浪漫小说作家，正在与我和制片人亚历克斯·布隆伯格谈论这一类型的经典作品之一。
To me, Savage Love is the one that I remember.
对我来说，《野蛮的爱》是我记忆中的一部。
And then there's The Rose and the--
然后是玫瑰和——
Those are the ones where the woman was taken by force.
这些就是那个女人被强行带走的地方。
And then she falls in love with her rapist.
然后她爱上了强奸她的人。
Do you remember that one, I think it was [UNINTELLIGIBLE], where the woman is chained to the man for like half of the book?
你还记得那个吗，我想那是[难以理解]，书中大约一半的时间里，女人被拴在男人身上？
When you read those as a kid, did you think that's what it was going to be like?
当你小时候读到这些的时候，你认为这会是这样吗？
Did that actually-- Did you know that it was sort of a fantasy, or did it actually inform you?
那真的吗——你知道这是一种幻想吗，还是它实际上告诉了你？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I think I expected to be kind of carried away.
我想我预计会有点得意忘形。
I was very disappointed by sex, I have to say.
我不得不说，我对性感到非常失望。
So was I!
我也是！
Isn't that odd?
这不是很奇怪吗？
Robin Epstein That's got to be unusual.
罗宾·爱泼斯坦 这一定很不寻常。
Only little Jimmy climbed the pinnacle.
只有小吉米登上了顶峰。
Very quickly, I might add.
我想补充一下，很快。
Really?
真的吗？
Because mine wasn't nearly quick enough!
因为我的速度还不够快！
Still, everyone I talked to at the conference-- every reader, writer, and editor-- said she believed in romance, and believed it happens in real life.
尽管如此，我在会议上交谈过的每个人——每个读者、作家和编辑——都说她相信浪漫，并相信它会发生在现实生活中。
And sometimes in real life, it even follows the rules of a romance novel.
有时在现实生活中，甚至会遵循言情小说的规则。
One of the most emotional moments at the conference occurred at a keynote address by author Teresa Madeiros at an awards luncheon celebrating librarians.
会议上最激动人心的时刻之一发生在作家特蕾莎·马德罗斯在庆祝图书馆员颁奖午宴上的主题演讲中。
In closing, I'd like to share a brief story with you.
最后，我想与大家分享一个小故事。
They met in 1957, when he was 22 and she was 18.
他们于 1957 年相识，当时他 22 岁，她 18 岁。
He was a skinny, handsome GI with a motorcycle and a devilish twinkle in his eye.
他是一个骨瘦如柴、英俊的美国大兵，开着一辆摩托车，眼睛里闪烁着邪恶的光芒。
She was his sister's best friend.
她是他姐姐最好的朋友。
She was beautiful, smart, and funny.
她美丽、聪明、有趣。
He was in love.
他恋爱了。
They married in 1958, and three years later, while she was pregnant with what was to be their first and only child, he was transferred to Heidelberg, Germany.
他们于 1958 年结婚，三年后，当她怀上他们的第一个也是唯一的孩子时，他被转移到德国海德堡。
They lived over a bakery run by a jovial German couple named Mama and Papa Hartmann.
他们住在一家面包店里，这家面包店是由一对快乐的德国夫妇哈特曼妈妈和爸爸经营的。
On weekends, they would climb into his convertible MG, without so much as a change of underwear, and go racing through the countryside to explore the castles of Germany and Austria.
周末，他们会不换内衣就坐上他的敞篷名爵，驰骋在乡村，探索德国和奥地利的城堡。
The child was born in 1962.
孩子出生于1962年。
His first indication that something was wrong was when he came home from work one day to discover that his wife had given away all the furniture.
有一天，当他下班回家时，他发现妻子已经把所有的家具都送走了，这是他第一次意识到出了问题。
Luckily a kind-hearted neighbor had taken it in and stored it in her apartment.
幸运的是，一位好心的邻居收了它并把它存放在她的公寓里。
She lost weight and stopped eating.
她体重减轻并停止进食。
Her speech was rapid and slurred.
她的语速很快，而且含糊不清。
At times she even seemed to forget that she'd given birth to a baby.
有时她甚至似乎忘记了自己已经生了孩子。
He had no choice but to seek professional help.
他别无选择，只能寻求专业帮助。
The doctors informed him that his wife was suffering from a severe form of mental illness.
医生告诉他，他的妻子患有严重的精神疾病。
It would be well over a decade before that illness was correctly diagnosed as bipolar disorder or manic-depressive illness.
十多年后，这种疾病才被正确诊断为双相情感障碍或躁狂抑郁症。
He went driving along the river that dark, rainy night, at nearly 100 miles an hour, a 26-year-old soldier in a foreign country with a brand new baby and a wife facing a lifetime of torturous uncertainty.
那个漆黑的雨夜，他以接近每小时 100 英里的速度沿河行驶，一名 26 岁的士兵在异国他乡，带着刚出生的婴儿和妻子，面临一生的痛苦和不确定性。
He had a choice to make.
他必须做出选择。
He could shuffle the baby off to be raised by relatives, and abandon his wife to the care of a German mental institution.
他可以把孩子交给亲戚抚养，然后把妻子交给德国精神病院照顾。
He could drive into that river and let all of his decisions be made for him.
他可以把车开进那条河，让所有的决定都为他做出。
Or he could choose to live and fight for his family.
或者他可以选择为家人而活并奋斗。
My parents celebrated their 44th wedding anniversary this year, because my dad meant it when he said "for better or worse, in sickness and in health." I enjoyed a relatively stable, happy childhood, and my mom's hospitalizations were kept to a minimum.
我的父母今年庆祝了他们的 44 周年结婚纪念日，因为我父亲说的“无论好坏，无论疾病还是健康”都是认真的。我度过了一个相对稳定、快乐的童年，我妈妈的住院次数也被控制在最低限度。
My father's love is as unwavering and unconditional today as it was 44 years ago.
今天，我父亲的爱和 44 年前一样坚定不移、无条件。
Although my mother is now suffering from a rare brain disorder that has resulted in severe dementia, when my father visits her in the nursing home every other day, he still sees that beautiful, brilliant girl who won his heart, all those years ago.
虽然我的母亲现在患有一种罕见的脑部疾病，导致严重的痴呆症，但当我的父亲每隔一天去疗养院探望她时，他仍然看到多年前那个美丽、聪明、赢得他芳心的女孩。
So when people ask me, "Why do you write romance?" I can only reply, "How could I not?"
所以当人们问我“你为什么写爱情小说？”我只能回答：“我怎么能不呢？”
There you have it.
给你了。
A couple in love, an obstacle to their love, and in the end, emotional justice.
一对相爱的情侣，爱情的阻碍，最终得到情感的正义。
Who can resist that?
谁能抗拒呢？
Why would you want to?
你为什么想要这样做？
Robin Epstein in New York.
罗宾·爱泼斯坦在纽约。
Coming up.
即将到来。
If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, what do you have to learn about love when you switch from one planet to the other?
如果男人来自火星，女人来自金星，当你从一个星球转到另一个星球时，你需要学习什么关于爱情的知识？
Well, it turns out, a lot more than you think.
好吧，事实证明，比你想象的要多得多。
In a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
距离芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台一分钟后，我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week, of course, we choose some theme, some subject, some question, and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories.
当然，每周我们都会选择一些主题、一些主题、一些问题，并为您带来各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program-- with Valentine's Day fast approaching-- What Is This Thing?
今天的节目——情人节即将来临——这是什么东西？
Stories about love and people making sense of love.
关于爱和人们理解爱的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two.
第二幕。
The View From the Other Half.
另一半的看法。
Sure, it's a grand generalization, but I think that it's safe to say that men approach love and relationships differently than women do.
当然，这是一个宏大的概括，但我认为可以肯定地说，男人对待爱情和人际关系的方式与女人不同。
Most of them.
他们中的大多数。
And in the last few decades, thanks to medical science, tens of thousands of people have switched from one side of the divide to the other.
在过去的几十年里，得益于医学科学，成千上万的人已经从鸿沟的一边转向了另一边。
When they did, among other things, they had to relearn how to find love and how to be in love from the other side of the gender line.
当他们这样做时，除其他外，他们必须重新学习如何寻找爱情以及如何从性别界线的另一端坠入爱河。
Griffin Hansbury offers this report from the front lines.
格里芬·汉斯伯里从前线提供了这份报告。
A warning to listeners that they do talk about sex in this story.
警告听众他们在这个故事中确实谈论了性。
Here's Griffin.
这是格里芬。
Every so often, I get together with the guys.
每隔一段时间，我就会和这些家伙聚在一起。
We grab some dinner, have a few drinks, maybe go bowling.
我们吃点晚饭，喝点饮料，也许去打保龄球。
It's typical guy time.
这是典型的男人时间。
We talk about the usual stuff.
我们谈论平常的事情。
Work, women, the shape of our nipples.
工作，女人，我们乳头的形状。
I guess in some ways we're not so typical.
我想在某些方面我们并不那么典型。
All of us were born female and were raised as girls.
我们所有人都是女性，并作为女孩长大。
Today, with the help of testosterone, we all live as men.
今天，在睾丸激素的帮助下，我们都像男人一样生活。
We're trans guys.
我们是跨性别者。
Sometimes it seems that's all we have in common.
有时，这似乎就是我们的共同点。
If we weren't trans guys, I doubt we'd even know each other.
如果我们不是跨性别者，我怀疑我们甚至不会互相认识。
Romance, on the other side of the great gender divide, has meant different things for each of us.
浪漫，在巨大的性别鸿沟的另一边，对我们每个人来说意味着不同的事情。
One guy lives with his wife in the 'burbs.
一个男人和他的妻子住在郊区。
One plays the field.
一个人在球场上玩耍。
Another is still trying to find the field.
另一个仍在努力寻找领域。
And a couple of us-- myself included-- are in long-term relationships, hoping they'll last a lifetime.
我们中的一些人——包括我自己——都处于长期的关系中，希望他们能够持续一生。
But all of us are still finding our way.
但我们所有人仍在寻找自己的道路。
After transition, it became harder for me and my friend Ray to find women to date.
变性后，我和我的朋友雷寻找女性约会变得更加困难。
It wasn't always like that.
情况并非总是如此。
Back in college, we were both known as BDOCs-- Big Dykes On Campus.
回到大学时，我们都被称为 BDOC——校园里的大堤坝。
Here's Ray.
这是雷。
Basically, I was the go-to lesbian, I think.
基本上，我认为我是首选女同性恋。
I probably slept with a good portion of the women on campus.
我可能和校园里的大部分女性都睡过。
And honestly, it was never like having to look for a date.
老实说，这从来都不像必须寻找约会对象。
I never had any trouble, as a lesbian, meeting women.
作为一名女同性恋，我在与女性见面时从来没有遇到过任何麻烦。
Ever.
曾经。
Looking at Ray, you can't see a trace of the female he once was.
看着雷，你看不到他曾经的女性痕迹。
He's got a T-shirt that says "Italian Stallion," a goatee on his handsome face, and impressive biceps that he's built up with weight lifting and testosterone.
他穿着一件印有“意大利种马”的 T 恤，英俊的脸上留着山羊胡，通过举重和睾丸激素锻炼出令人印象深刻的二头肌。
Testosterone puts hair on your chest, lowers your voice, and basically turns you into a teenage boy.
睾丸激素会让你的胸毛增多，降低你的声音，基本上把你变成一个十几岁的男孩。
Giddy and girl crazy, staring in the mirror every five minutes to see if those sideburns are coming in yet.
头晕目眩，女孩疯狂，每隔五分钟就盯着镜子看看那些鬓角是否长出来了。
Ray looked forward to being a single guy for the first time in his life-- until it actually happened.
雷一生中第一次期待成为单身汉，直到它真正发生。
It ended up being really kind of scary and sucky versus exciting.
它最终变得非常可怕和糟糕，而不是令人兴奋。
You know?
你知道？
Appearance-wise, sure, it works for me to go into a straight club.
就外观而言，当然，进入异性恋俱乐部对我来说很有效。
But would I know what to do once I got there?
但我知道到达那里后该怎么做吗？
Being socialized as a female, I just feel like I, and many of us, were never really taught how to pick somebody up.
作为一名女性，我只是觉得我和我们中的许多人从未真正被教导过如何搭讪某人。
You know, I think staring at somebody briefly and looking away was like the big signal that you were interested in somebody.
你知道，我认为短暂地盯着某人然后移开视线就像是你对某人感兴趣的重要信号。
And now seeing the way men are socialized, and how very much men make eye contact, and are able to approach people.
现在看到男人的社交方式，以及男人有多少眼神交流，以及有多少能力接近他人。
I was never socialized that way.
我从来没有这样社交过。
Who was our target audience now?
现在谁是我们的目标受众？
Who are we supposed to be trying to date?
我们应该尝试和谁约会？
It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to try to date lesbians, because generally speaking, they're going to want to be with women.
尝试与女同性恋者约会似乎没有多大意义，因为一般来说，她们会想和女性在一起。
And yet, dating 100% heterosexual, never given it a second thought women, seems to have its own treachery.
然而，与 100% 异性恋、从未考虑过的女性约会，似乎有其自身的背叛。
Because there were some, you know, body differences when you're transsexual.
因为，你知道，当你变性时，身体会有一些差异。
And not knowing if they'll run screaming from the room or like pull a Crying Game-- who wants to expose themselves to that?
不知道他们是否会尖叫着跑出房间，或者像玩哭泣游戏一样——谁愿意让自己暴露在这种情况下呢？
When you hang out with a bunch of transsexuals and you talk about dating, eventually you get to The Crying Game.
当你和一群变性人一起出去玩并谈论约会时，最终你会进入哭泣游戏。
When we talk about The Crying Game, what we're really talking about is that intimate scene where the trans woman opens her robe to reveal the truth and the guy responds by puking in the bathroom.
当我们谈论《哭泣的游戏》时，我们真正谈论的是那个亲密的场景，跨性别女人打开长袍说出真相，而男人则在浴室里吐了出来。
For most people, it's a surprise ending, nothing more.
对于大多数人来说，这只是一个意外的结局，仅此而已。
But for me, and for many trans people, it's the ending we fear the most-- even for our happiest and most fantastic stories.
但对我和许多跨性别者来说，这是我们最害怕的结局——即使对于我们最快乐、最奇妙的故事也是如此。
My friends and I, a group of other trans men and myself, were going away for a weekend down to the Jersey Shore.
我和我的朋友们，还有我和其他跨性别男人，要去泽西海岸度周末。
And on a particular night, we happened to be driving down to Atlantic City.
在一个特定的夜晚，我们碰巧开车去大西洋城。
And we were in an SUV.
我们坐在一辆SUV里。
I guess there were about four or five of us.
我猜我们大概有四五个人。
And we were all pretty early in our transition, but we all sort of looked male.
我们都处于变性的早期，但我们看起来都像是男性。
Like average, younger than our age, men.
就像一般人一样，比我们年龄年轻的男性。
And so this carload of girls is kind of driving by the SUV, and we're up a little higher, so we have a good view of everything.
所以这车女孩就像是开着SUV，而且我们的位置更高一点，所以我们可以清楚地看到一切。
And they see us and they start waving, and doing that thing that whatever 19-year-old girls do.
他们看到我们就开始挥手，做着 19 岁女孩都会做的事情。
Waving and being flirtatious.
挥手并调情。
And, you know, our interest was kind of piqued.
而且，你知道，我们的兴趣有点被激起了。
And then suddenly, one of them like pops out of the sunroof and lifts up her shirt and flashes us her chest.
突然，其中一个人从天窗里跳出来，掀起衬衫，向我们展示她的胸部。
And so now we're like, really shocked and screaming, and like, oh my God, and we're clapping and egging her on.
所以现在我们真的很震惊，尖叫，天哪，我们鼓掌鼓励她。
And the next thing you know, the passenger in the front seat decides to grab the girl who's driving and start kissing her for us.
接下来你知道的，前座的乘客决定抓住开车的女孩并开始为我们亲吻她。
Like, watch this.
就像，看这个。
And then starts, you know, kissing this other girl.
然后开始，你知道，亲吻另一个女孩。
I guess that whole, girl kissing girl, turns guys on.
我想，女孩亲吻女孩的整个过程会让男人们兴奋不已。
So we were just really egging them on and having a great time.
所以我们只是怂恿他们，玩得很开心。
And we were just all sort of looking at each other, like we couldn't believe it was happening.
我们只是互相看着对方，就像我们不敢相信这一切正在发生一样。
You know?
你知道？
Like, this is us.
就像，这就是我们。
This is not the car past us.
这不是我们经过的车。
They're really looking at us.
他们真的在看着我们。
And so this went on and on, and it got the point where it was happening for like a half an hour that we were alongside of them.
就这样一直持续下去，最后我们和他们在一起持续了大约半个小时。
And so they pulled up alongside of us eventually.
所以他们最终停在我们旁边。
We opened our window.
我们打开窗户。
They opened their window.
他们打开窗户。
I guess we had just gotten out of a toll booth.
我想我们刚刚从收费站出来。
And one of them said, where are you guys going?
其中一个人说，你们要去哪里？
And we said, oh, we're going to Atlantic City.
我们说，哦，我们要去大西洋城。
They said, oh, we are too, we are too!
他们说，哦，我们也是，我们也是！
What are you guys doing there?
你们在那里做什么？
We're like, oh, we're going to gamble and stuff.
我们就像，哦，我们要去赌博之类的。
They're like, you want to come hang out with us?
他们说，你想和我们一起出去玩吗？
And we said, sure!
我们说，当然！
Let's go, let's go!
走吧，走吧！
And suddenly she says, hey, we're going to go skinny dipping.
突然她说，嘿，我们要去裸泳。
Do you want to come?
你想来吗？
And suddenly we just all look at each other and our faces just drop.
突然间，我们互相看着对方，脸色都沉了下来。
You know?
你知道？
Just drop.
就掉吧。
Because we suddenly realize that this whole fantasy thing that was being created couldn't really exist without the reality of who we are.
因为我们突然意识到，如果没有我们的现实，这一切正在被创造的幻想就不可能真正存在。
We were all very early in transition.
我们都处于转型的早期。
Some of us had had some surgery.
我们中的一些人接受了一些手术。
Some of us hadn't.
我们中的一些人没有。
And there is no way we were going to be naked without them knowing our history.
如果他们不知道我们的历史，我们就不可能赤身裸体。
So we just kind of like waved and smiled and didn't really answer, and they went away.
所以我们只是挥手微笑，没有真正回答，然后他们就走了。
But I think we all remember that as a really, like, just-- as silly and immature as it sounds-- it was really defining.
但我想我们都记得，尽管听起来很愚蠢和不成熟，但它确实具有决定性。
It was a moment that we had missed.
这是我们错过的一个时刻。
And we had a chance to kind of live that for a moment.
我们有机会暂时体验一下这样的生活。
Just a moment.
一会儿。
But that was enough.
但那已经足够了。
You know?
你知道？
I remember having some sadness, but I remember being a lot more excited about the fact that that happened.
我记得当时有一些悲伤，但我记得对于这件事发生的事实感到更加兴奋。
You know?
你知道？
There was a moment where, because we were a collective together, because there were four or five of us, I had a sadness for us.
有那么一刻，因为我们是一个集体，因为我们有四五个人，所以我为我们感到悲伤。
Of like, this fate that we share, that there is something exceptional.
就像我们共同的命运一样，有一些特殊的东西。
That there is something.
有东西。
We are an exception to most men in the world.
对于世界上大多数男人来说，我们是例外。
I forget that, though.
不过我忘记了。
On a daily basis, I do forget that.
每天，我确实忘记了这一点。
After a while, you just live as a man, and you forget that you are such an exception.
过了一段时间，你就只是像个男人一样生活，你就忘记了自己是个例外。
And so there are moments that point it out, and sometimes, they are harder than others.
因此，有些时刻会指出这一点，有时，它们比其他时刻更难。
It's so hard to break the news to a woman about your past, that Ray and I have almost never risked it.
向一个女人透露你的过去是非常困难的，所以雷和我几乎从来没有冒险过。
True story, though.
不过，这是真实的故事。
I was on a blind date with this woman.
我正在和这个女人相亲。
We had lunch.
我们吃了午饭。
We'd been talking for hours.
我们已经聊了好几个小时了。
And I was just getting ready to come out with my big revelation.
我正准备说出我的重大启示。
And she says to me, there's something I have to tell you.
她对我说，有件事我必须告诉你。
She looks kind of nervous and she says, up until now, I used to date women.
她看起来有点紧张，她说，到目前为止，我曾经和女人约会过。
Does that bother you?
这让你烦恼吗？
I said, no. It doesn't bother me.
我说，不。我不介意。
Because up until now, I used to be a woman.
因为直到现在，我都曾经是一个女人。
We never had a second date.
我们从未有过第二次约会。
My friend Ethan doesn't have these problems.
我的朋友伊森没有这些问题。
Unlike the rest of us, he's had absolutely no fear of The Crying Game.
与我们其他人不同，他完全不害怕哭泣游戏。
When I ask him how he can be so confident, he just shrugs his shoulders.
当我问他为何如此自信时，他只是耸了耸肩。
It never occurs to him to be afraid.
他从来没有想到要害怕。
An easy-going and good-looking, dance club DJ with mutton-chop sideburns and armloads of tattoos, Ethan's a babe magnet.
伊森 (Ethan) 是一位随和、英俊的舞蹈俱乐部 DJ，留着羊排鬓角，手臂上满是纹身，他非常吸引女孩。
In his glove compartment, he keeps a spare toothbrush and a clean pair of boxer shorts.
在他的手套箱里，他放着一把备用牙刷和一条干净的平角短裤。
That's confidence.
这就是信心。
Ethan can pick up a woman in a bar, tell her about his past, and go home with her the same night-- no big deal.
伊森可以在酒吧里约一个女人，告诉她他的过去，然后当晚就和她一起回家——没什么大不了的。
Here's an example of the kind of story he tells.
这是他讲述的故事的一个例子。
I went to an all-girls high school.
我去了一所女子高中。
So I went back to my 10-year reunion, and I was like one guy with like 15 women, and it was so much fun.
所以我回到了 10 年来的团聚，我就像一个男人和大约 15 个女人，这非常有趣。
And I tell you, I just had the best time.
我告诉你，我刚刚度过了最美好的时光。
Well, first of all, in that night-- let's see-- just like there was such debauchery.
嗯，首先，那天晚上——让我们看看——就像有这样的放荡。
It was ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
We were like kids.
我们就像孩子一样。
We were playing spin the bottle, truth or dare.
我们正在玩旋转瓶子、真心话大冒险。
I was like, oh, no way!
我当时想，哦，不可能！
Holy cow, this is crazy.
天哪，这太疯狂了。
But even Ethan encounters dating difficulties.
但即使是伊森也遇到了约会困难。
He's always dated women casually, but it's different now that he's a guy.
他总是和女人随意约会，但现在他是个男人了，情况就不一样了。
When he doesn't call someone for a week, or when he's busy with someone else on a Saturday night, he now gets angry emails from unhappy women.
当他一周没有给某人打电话时，或者当他在周六晚上忙于与其他人打交道时，他现在会收到来自不满女性的愤怒电子邮件。
The old rules he used to play by have changed.
他过去遵守的旧规则已经改变。
Previously, it was sort of, there was-- you know, if I was dating a straight woman who is used to dating men, because I was a woman, I think she would feel safe.
以前，你知道，如果我和一个习惯于和男人约会的异性恋女人约会，因为我是女人，我想她会感到安全。
Like, she sort of felt like, well, there's safety here.
就像，她有点觉得，嗯，这里很安全。
I don't have to play games, because this is my equal.
我不必玩游戏，因为这是我的平等者。
This is my friend.
这是我的朋友。
This is my partner.
这是我的伙伴。
This is-- you know, feeling like we're on the same playing field.
这就是——你知道，感觉就像我们在同一个竞争场上。
Everything's level.
一切都是水平的。
And I feel like that's definitely not the case, or not the approach that's taken when you're seen as a man.
我觉得情况绝对不是这样，或者说不是当你被视为一个男人时所采取的方法。
We've all had to adjust to these strange new codes of behavior.
我们都必须适应这些奇怪的新行为准则。
Before I looked like a man, I could talk to women about how I liked going to strip clubs, and that made me cool and edgy.
在我看起来像个男人之前，我可以和女人谈论我多么喜欢去脱衣舞俱乐部，这让我变得很酷、很前卫。
Now it just makes me a jerk.
现在它只会让我变得混蛋。
My friend Nate is a different story than the rest of us.
我的朋友内特与我们其他人的故事不同。
Most of the guys in the group always wanted to be men and were attracted to women.
团体中的大多数男人一直想成为男人，并且被女人所吸引。
Nate wanted to be a man, but he was attracted to other men.
内特想成为一个男人，但他被其他男人所吸引。
One common response I get when I tell people I'm transgender is they say, well, why didn't you just stay a girl?
当我告诉别人我是跨性别者时，我得到的一个常见反应是他们说，好吧，你为什么不继续做个女孩呢？
If you're attracted to men, why not just be a straight woman?
如果你对男人有吸引力，为什么不做一个异性恋女人呢？
As if that's all it takes.
好像这就是所需要的一切。
It's just being attracted to men.
只不过是被男人吸引而已。
My entire persona.
我的整个人格。
Like, my personality, everything about me is male.
就像我的性格一样，我的一切都是男性。
I mean, a straight woman, I may in fact be attracted to-- both be attracted to, say, Antonio Banderas, but I think that the ways in which we-- everything else is different.
我的意思是，一个异性恋女性，我实际上可能会被安东尼奥·班德拉斯（Antonio Banderas）等人所吸引，但我认为我们其他一切的方式都是不同的。
Who we are is different.
我们是谁是不同的。
Very different.
非常不同。
It is a little hard to understand, I know.
我知道这有点难以理解。
But today Nate is a cute gay man with close-cropped hair, stylish glasses, and a trim, compact build, looking for another cute gay man to date.
但今天，内特是一位可爱的男同性恋者，留着短发，戴着时尚的眼镜，身材修长、紧凑，正在寻找另一位可爱的男同性恋者约会。
In his search for love, Nate had a harder time than the rest of us figuring out his target audience.
在寻找爱情的过程中，内特比我们其他人更难找到他的目标受众。
Like everyone else, he couldn't understand how a female-bodied person could be a gay man, and he went through a long process of elimination.
和其他人一样，他无法理解一个女性身体的人怎么会是一个同性恋，他经历了一个漫长的淘汰过程。
He knew he wasn't a straight girl.
他知道自己不是一个直女。
He felt like a boy.
他感觉自己像个男孩。
Maybe he was a lesbian.
也许他是一名女同性恋。
I made every possible effort.
我尽了一切努力。
I bought all the folk music albums.
我买了所有的民谣专辑。
I was good at the cultural stuff.
我擅长文化方面的东西。
I wore sandals.
我穿凉鞋。
I went to Mexico and studied, you know, women and their struggles in Latin America.
我去了墨西哥，研究了拉丁美洲的妇女及其斗争。
I own every Indigo Girls album ever made.
我拥有所有 Indigo Girls 制作的专辑。
Every Ani DiFranco album.
阿尼·迪弗兰科的每张专辑。
Gosh.
天哪。
I became a vegetarian, had a heavily soy-based diet.
我成为一名素食主义者，饮食以大豆为主。
I mean really!
我的意思是真的！
I'm not kidding.
我不是在开玩笑。
It was actually being a woman attracted to women that was the hard part.
实际上，成为一个被女性吸引的女性才是最困难的部分。
I even went through a man-hating stage.
我什至经历了讨厌男人的阶段。
Not that all lesbians did that.
并不是所有女同性恋者都这样做。
I mean, certainly, this was my attempt at being a lesbian.
我的意思是，当然，这是我成为女同性恋的尝试。
That came more from my resentment of everything men had that I wanted.
这更多是因为我对男人拥有的我想要的一切感到不满。
I would just look at men on the subway and just feel so resentful.
我只是看着地铁上的男人，就感到非常怨恨。
I felt like men just took for granted the fact that they looked like men.
我觉得男人只是理所当然地认为他们看起来像男人这一事实。
I'd look at these men just sitting there on the subway.
我会看着这些坐在地铁里的人。
I was like, God, if I were them, I would just be jumping up and down, jumping for joy.
我当时想，天啊，如果我是他们，我一定会高兴得跳上跳下。
And they're just walking around, these schlumpy men, you know?
他们只是四处走动，这些邋遢的男人，你知道吗？
Just all these different men, with their male chests and male genitalia and wearing a tie to work.
就是所有这些不同的男人，有着男性的胸部和男性的生殖器，戴着领带去上班。
Just not even appreciating it.
只是连欣赏都没有。
After the lesbian experiment failed, Nate finally realized what he had to do.
女同性恋实验失败后，内特终于意识到自己必须做什么。
He got chest surgery and started taking testosterone.
他接受了胸部手术并开始服用睾酮。
Nate liked to joke that he's the only person he knows it's been L, G, B, and T-- the common shorthand for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender.
内特喜欢开玩笑说，他是唯一认识的人，这就是 L、G、B 和 T——女同性恋、男同性恋、双性恋和跨性别者的常见简写。
And for every letter, there's been a coming out to his parents.
每一封信都会向他的父母出柜。
Think about that for a second.
想一想。
But so far, all his hard work hasn't helped his love life much.
但到目前为止，他的所有努力并没有给他的爱情生活带来太大帮助。
Meeting men isn't too difficult for Nate.
对内特来说，认识男人并不是太困难。
He's got a couple ads online, and gets regular responses.
他在网上发布了几个广告，并定期得到回复。
He goes out on a lot of first dates, but there aren't a lot of seconds.
他第一次约会的次数很多，但第二次约会的次数并不多。
I haven't had anyone, you know, throw up like in The Crying Game.
你知道，我还没有遇到过像《哭泣游戏》中那样呕吐的人。
So I guess that's a good thing.
所以我想这是一件好事。
But the best one was, I met this guy through a friend of a friend, and we met up, and walked around the city.
但最好的是，我通过朋友的朋友认识了这个人，我们见面了，然后在城市里散步。
And we ended up at Hudson River Park and we watched the fireworks at the end of the Gay Pride Parade.
我们最终来到了哈德逊河公园，观看了同性恋骄傲游行结束时的烟花。
There's some beautiful fireworks at the end of the parade.
游行结束时还有美丽的烟花。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
I guess you could say it was romantic.
我想你可以说这是浪漫的。
We had a subsequent date, and at the very end of the date, I said, you know, there's something that's kind of hard to tell you, but I feel like it's time to let you know.
我们随后进行了一次约会，在约会的最后，我说，你知道，有些事情很难告诉你，但我觉得是时候让你知道了。
And he said, what, you're transsexual?
他说，什么，你是变性人？
And he was joking.
他是在开玩笑。
He was trying to come up with the weirdest thing that he could think of, just to make me feel better.
他试图想出他能想到的最奇怪的事情，只是为了让我感觉好一点。
And I wish I could just go out there and date whoever I wanted, and they didn't have to be this incredibly open-minded person, you know?
我希望我可以出去和任何我想约会的人约会，而他们不必是一个思想极其开放的人，你知道吗？
My therapist the other day said, he actually said, we'd be both [BLEEP] ourselves if we didn't say that it's going to be incredibly difficult for you to find a life partner.
前几天我的治疗师说，他实际上说过，如果我们不说你找到人生伴侣会非常困难，我们都会[哔]自己。
And I'm thinking, God, I'm paying you for this?
我在想，上帝，我为此付钱给你吗？
Still, Nate keeps trying.
尽管如此，内特仍在继续努力。
He's cute and funny, and he's playing the game, which is more than he ever did before transition, when he couldn't even get off the bench.
他很可爱，很有趣，而且他正在打比赛，这比他在过渡之前所做的更多，当时他甚至无法从替补席上下来。
I'm sure it's just a matter of time before Nate finds someone to curl up with on the couch to watch Will and Grace.
我确信内特迟早会找到一个人蜷缩在沙发上看威尔和格蕾丝。
So you spend all this time waiting for love to come along, worrying that it never will, and wondering what you'll do with it now that you've got this new body.
所以你花了所有的时间等待爱情的到来，担心它永远不会出现，并想知道既然你有了这个新的身体，你会用它做什么。
What happens then when love finally shows up?
当爱情最终出现时会发生什么呢？
Ray, the Italian Stallion from earlier in my story, has been with his girlfriend Amy for nearly a year.
雷是我故事前面提到的那匹意大利种马，他和女友艾米在一起已经快一年了。
She knew he was trans right from the start, because Ray's roommate introduced them.
她从一开始就知道他是跨性别者，因为雷的室友介绍他们认识的。
Ray fell for Amy the moment he first saw her, and she fell for him.
雷第一眼看到艾米就爱上了她，而她也爱上了他。
But Amy had never dated a trans man and Ray had never dated a straight woman, so nobody made a move.
但艾米从未与跨性别男人约会过，雷也从未与异性恋女人约会过，所以没有人采取行动。
Six months passed with no contact at all.
六个月过去了，完全没有联系。
Finally, it was Amy who got things going.
最后，是艾米让事情顺利进行。
She dropped Ray an email and their courtship began at a glacial pace, including a long series of platonic lunches and dinners.
她给雷发了一封电子邮件，他们的求爱以缓慢的速度开始，包括一系列柏拉图式的午餐和晚餐。
Well, it got to the point where it was ridiculous.
好吧，事情已经到了可笑的地步了。
Like, we went out to dinner, we heard this band, and we were sitting really close, sort of-- it was like a Moroccan restaurant-- we were sitting on pillows on the floor.
就像，我们出去吃晚饭，我们听到了这个乐队的演奏，我们坐得很近，有点像一家摩洛哥餐厅，我们坐在地板上的枕头上。
And we were sitting there, and it was sort of like-- you were talking, but both of us were sort of like, kiss each other.
我们坐在那里，有点像——你们在说话，但我们俩都有点像，互相亲吻。
In, I think, both of our minds, it was like, somebody has to kiss somebody.
我想，在我们俩的心里，就像是，有人必须亲吻某人。
Sort of like you're talking, but then you lose track of what you're saying, because you can't even pay attention to it, because you're like, we've got to kiss, we've got to kiss.
有点像你在说话，但随后你就忘记了你在说什么，因为你甚至无法注意它，因为你就像，我们必须亲吻，我们必须亲吻。
And we didn't.
但我们没有。
Finally, one night after a movie, Ray walked Amy home, and they lost themselves in conversation for 70 long blocks.
最后，电影结束后的一天晚上，雷送艾米回家，他们聊了 70 个街区。
It's miles, yeah.
这是英里，是的。
It was definitely miles.
这绝对是英里。
And we weren't in walking shoes, and we were carrying bags, and it was nighttime, and there was a million different reasons why we should have just taken a cab or the subway, but we did not.
我们没有穿步行鞋，我们背着包，而且当时是晚上，有一百万种不同的理由说明我们应该乘坐出租车或地铁，但我们没有。
And she did say that she wasn't really sure, like, completely how she felt about the trans thing.
她确实说过，她不太确定自己对跨性别者的感受如何。
And then at the same moment, or like the next moment, she'd be very physical with me.
然后就在同一时刻，或者就像下一刻，她会对我进行非常激烈的身体接触。
So I was getting these two different signals.
所以我收到了这两个不同的信号。
When we took that 70-block walk and we ended up at my house, I thought, well maybe he'll kiss me goodnight.
当我们步行 70 个街区最后到达我家时，我想，也许他会吻我道晚安。
And then he kind of hugged me goodnight, and I was a little disappointed.
然后他拥抱我道晚安，我有点失望。
But it was my choice.
但这是我的选择。
Like, I was the one who went, you know, saying, let's be friends.
就像，我就是那个说，我们做朋友吧。
And then I don't know why I was disappointed that he didn't kiss me.
然后我不知道为什么我对他没有吻我感到失望。
I couldn't-- I was sort of confused-- and I couldn't really figure it out, what I was doing.
我不能——我有点困惑——我无法真正弄清楚我在做什么。
What I was doing.
我在做什么。
I couldn't figure out what I was doing.
我不知道自己在做什么。
In retrospect, what do you think you were doing?
回想起来，你认为你当时在做什么？
Because I liked him so much, I wanted to make sure that if we-- I just knew that every step I was taking was like a step I couldn't turn back.
因为我非常喜欢他，所以我想确保如果我们——我只知道我迈出的每一步都无法回头。
Romance is about overcoming obstacles.
浪漫就是要克服障碍。
And in a way, Ray and Amy's story is the perfect plot for a romance novel.
在某种程度上，雷和艾米的故事是浪漫小说的完美情节。
Girl meets boy.
女孩遇见男孩。
Girl grapples with the fact that boy used to be a girl.
女孩努力接受男孩曾经是女孩的事实。
Girl falls in love with boy.
女孩爱上了男孩。
I'm surprised Harlequin hasn't jumped on this one yet.
我很惊讶 Harlequin 还没有跳上这个。
I like to think that trans men give you the best of both worlds.
我喜欢认为跨性别男人可以给你两全其美的感觉。
I hear so many women say things like, I wish my gay best friend were straight for like a day.
我听到很多女人说这样的话，我希望我最好的同性恋朋友有一天是异性恋。
Well, that's us.
嗯，那就是我们。
We're your gay best friend, and we want to date you.
我们是你最好的同性恋朋友，我们想和你约会。
We want to go shopping and take dance lessons with you.
我们想和你一起去购物和上舞蹈课。
It's not a bad deal when you think about it.
仔细想想，这并不是一件坏事。
But of course, even with all the good stuff, no trans man is perfect.
但当然，即使拥有所有这些好东西，跨性别者也不是完美的。
There is one big thing missing.
缺少一件大事。
Or maybe it's not so big.
或者也许它没有那么大。
So what everybody really wants to know is what our sex life is like.
所以每个人真正想知道的是我们的性生活是什么样的。
And it's weird, because when I talk about it, I feel like a science experiment.
这很奇怪，因为当我谈论它时，我感觉就像是一个科学实验。
I mean, I get really sick of that question when people ask me, and here I am asking you about it.
我的意思是，当人们问我这个问题时，我真的很厌倦，而我在这里问你这个问题。
And as a trans man, I think that that's a question that-- an answer that is something that I really want to know, and that I'm afraid of.
作为一名跨性别者，我认为这是一个我真正想知道但又害怕的问题的答案。
Like, do you miss having a penis?
比如，你想念拥有阴茎吗？
I think it's on every trans man's mind too.
我想这也是每个跨性别男人的想法。
It's a difficult question to answer.
这是一个很难回答的问题。
Because you love this person, and in some ways, it feels-- you know, modern technology has made it possible for it to be very similar.
因为你爱这个人，并且在某些方面，你会感觉——你知道，现代技术已经使他们变得非常相似成为可能。
And you know, sometimes I think-- I don't necessarily say I would miss a penis.
你知道，有时我想——我不一定说我会想念阴茎。
I missed an ease.
我错过了一种轻松。
I miss a little bit more simplicity.
我怀念更多的简单性。
I miss the simplicity of it, I think.
我想我怀念它的简单性。
Not the actual body part.
不是实际的身体部位。
If you passed them on the street, you wouldn't know that Ray and Amy were anything more than ordinary.
如果你在街上经过他们，你不会知道雷和艾米有什么不同寻常的地方。
The only way you would know is if they told you.
您知道的唯一方法就是他们是否告诉您。
Coming out is something Amy never had to do until she fell in love with Ray.
出柜是艾米在爱上雷之前从未做过的事情。
Now all of a sudden she's co-starring in The Crying Game, and people look at her differently too.
现在突然间她在《哭泣的游戏》中联合主演，人们对她的看法也不同了。
Half of your listeners, they're wondering what I'm like.
一半的听众想知道我是什么样的人。
They're wondering what I look like.
他们想知道我长什么样。
Am I attractive enough?
我足够有吸引力吗？
Couldn't I go to a bar in New York and pick out a nice single Jewish man?
我不能去纽约的酒吧挑选一个不错的单身犹太男人吗？
And I'm definitely the kind of girl who'd go to a bar.
我绝对是那种会去酒吧的女孩。
I look like every other cute girl New Yorker who wears expensive clothes and pointy-toed shoes.
我看起来就像其他可爱的纽约女孩一样，穿着昂贵的衣服和尖头鞋。
Like, I look like everybody else.
就像，我看起来和其他人一样。
And I'm choosing this.
而我就选择这个。
Like, I've chosen this person.
就像，我选择了这个人。
I fell in love with this amazing man.
我爱上了这个了不起的男人。
And all my friends who know him are jealous.
我所有认识他的朋友都嫉妒他。
Like they wish that they could meet a Ray.
就像他们希望能遇见雷一样。
Transition itself is in some ways the most romantic undertaking of all.
从某些方面来说，转变本身就是最浪漫的事业。
It's an idealistic adventure, extravagant and kind of unreal.
这是一次理想主义的冒险，奢侈而又有点不真实。
You commit yourself to a feeling early on, a dream you've had all your life, and then you do it, believing all the while that the impossible can be made possible, that the great divide can be crossed.
你很早就将自己投入到一种感觉中，一个你一生都有的梦想，然后你就去做了，同时相信不可能的事情可以变成可能，巨大的鸿沟可以被跨越。
It's a total leap of faith, like falling in love.
这是信仰的彻底飞跃，就像坠入爱河一样。
You don't know what will happen when you get to the other side, but you go there anyway.
你不知道当你到达彼岸时会发生什么，但你还是要去那里。
Griffin Hansbury.
格里芬·汉斯伯里。
Act Three: A Love Story Ira Glass Act Three.
第三幕：爱情故事艾拉·格拉斯 第三幕。
A Love Story.
一个爱情故事。
Well, we wanted to end our show today with a love story.
好吧，我们想以一个爱情故事来结束今天的节目。
A little real-life fable with an answer to the question, what is this thing called love?
一个现实生活中的小寓言，回答了这个问题：什么是爱情？
Sarah Vowell believes that she has just the one.
莎拉·沃威尔 (Sarah Vowell) 相信她正是这样的人。
The marriage of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash is the greatest love story of the 20th century.
约翰尼·卡什 (Johnny Cash) 和琼·卡特·卡什 (June Carter Cash) 的婚姻是 20 世纪最伟大的爱情故事。
The first time Johnny saw June, he was on his high school senior class trip to Nashville, and she was on stage at the Grand Ole Opry, singing with her famous relatives, the Carter family, and cracking jokes with Ernest Tubb.
约翰尼第一次见到琼时，他正在去纳什维尔参加高中高年级班级旅行，当时她正在大奥普里的舞台上，与她著名的亲戚卡特家族一起唱歌，并与欧内斯特·塔布开玩笑。
Years later, in 1961, the Opry was where they would meet.
多年后的 1961 年，他们在大剧院见面。
They were backstage, and Johnny went up to June and told her, "You and I are going to get married someday." She laughed and told him that she couldn't wait.
他们在后台，约翰尼走到琼面前告诉她，“你和我有一天要结婚。”她笑着告诉他她等不及了。
I'm guessing that when Cash went home that night, he didn't mention this to Vivian, his wife.
我猜当卡什那天晚上回家时，他没有向他的妻子薇薇安提起这件事。
Not long after that, June joined Johnny's road show and they were traveling around the country together on tour.
不久之后，琼参加了约翰尼的路演，他们一起在全国各地巡回演出。
His wife mostly stayed home, and so did her husband.
他的妻子大部分时间都呆在家里，她的丈夫也是如此。
But June Carter was a lady-- a solid, accomplished, well-meaning Christian professional.
但琼·卡特是一位女士——一位踏实、有成就、善意的基督徒专业人士。
And no solid, well-meaning Christian pro willingly falls in love with another woman's husband, especially if he's a pill-popping speed freak like Johnny Cash was back then.
没有一个坚定的、善意的基督教职业人士愿意爱上另一个女人的丈夫，尤其是如果他是像约翰尼·卡什那样的吸药狂。
Years later, June would describe falling in love with Johnny this way.
多年后，琼会这样描述自己爱上约翰尼的过程。
"I felt like I had fallen into a pit of fire and I was literally burning alive." So June, who had been a professional musician since she was as tall as a ukulele, called her songwriting partner, Merle Kilgore, and they wrote about June's forbidden feelings for Cash.
“我感觉自己掉进了一个火坑，简直是被活活烧死了。”于是，从身高和四弦琴一样高的琼就成为了一名职业音乐家，她打电话给她的歌曲创作伙伴梅尔·基尔戈尔，他们写下了琼对卡什的禁忌感情。
It was a song straight out of Dante.
这是一首直接出自但丁的歌曲。
They gave it to June's not particularly Dante-esque sister Anita, who recorded it as "Love's Ring of Fire."
他们把它送给了琼的妹妹安妮塔，她的风格并不特别像但丁，她把它录制为“爱的火环”。
[SINGING} Love is a burning thing and it makes a fiery ring.
[歌唱] 爱是一种燃烧的东西，它会形成一个火红的圆环。
Bringing hurt to the heart's desire, I fell in the ring of fire.
带着伤心的欲望，我坠入了火圈。
I fell into, into the burning ring of fire.
我掉进了，掉进了燃烧的火圈里。
I fell down, down, down, down, into the deepest mire.
我跌倒了，跌倒了，跌倒了，跌倒了，陷入了最深的泥潭。
And it burns, burns, burns, burns, the ring of fire.
它燃烧，燃烧，燃烧，燃烧，火环。
The ring of fire.
火环。
The ring of fire.
火环。
Johnny Cash heard Anita Carter's record, and then one night, he had a dream.
约翰尼·卡什听到了安妮塔·卡特的唱片，然后有一天晚上，他做了一个梦。
He dreamed of mariachi horns playing this song.
他梦想着墨西哥流浪乐队的喇叭演奏这首歌。
Some say it was the influence of the then-popular Tijuana Brass.
有人说这是受到当时流行的蒂华纳铜管乐器的影响。
Others say it was the barbiturates he took before bed to take the edge off the amphetamines.
其他人则说，他睡前服用的巴比妥类药物可以减轻安非他明的影响。
Either way, Johnny cash went into the studio with a couple of trumpet players and made his dream come true.
不管怎样，约翰尼·卡什和几个小号手一起走进了录音室，实现了他的梦想。
[SINGING] Love is a burning thing, and it makes a fiery ring.
[歌唱] 爱是一种燃烧的东西，它会形成一圈火红的圆环。
The peculiarity of the song's orchestration is topped only by the weirdness of its credits.
这首歌编曲的奇特之处在于其奇怪的曲调。
Here was a married man singing a song written about him by the betrothed woman who was in love with him, and singing the record back-up "oohs" were said woman, June Carter, as well as her sister and her mother.
这是一位已婚男子，正在唱一首由深爱着他的未婚女子写的关于他的歌曲，并唱着唱片伴奏的“哦”“噢”，据说是那位女子琼·卡特，以及她的姐姐和母亲。
Mother Maybelle Carter, the most respectable elder in the history of country music, if not America itself.
梅贝尔·卡特母亲，即使不是美国本身，也是乡村音乐史上最受尊敬的长者。
Listen to how cheerful they sound.
听听他们的声音多么欢快。
[SINGING] I fell into a burning ring of fire.
[唱歌]我掉进了燃烧的火圈中。
I went down, down, down, and the flames went higher.
我往下，往下，往下，火焰越来越高。
And it burns, burns burns, the ring of fire, the ring of fire.
它燃烧，燃烧燃烧，火环，火环。
In this song, to compare love to fire, isn't just the pop music sexy heat cliche like "you give me fever" or "hunka, hunka burning love" or "it's getting hot in here." This is fire as in brimstone, old-time religion, written by the daughter of a people who believed in the eternal flames of hell.
在这首歌中，将爱比作火，不仅仅是流行音乐中性感热力的陈词滥调，如“你给我发烧”或“hunka，hunka 燃烧的爱”或“这里变得很热”。这是硫磺中的火，古老的宗教，由相信地狱永恒之火的民族的女儿所写。
June Carter was coveting her neighbor's spouse, which meant she was breaking one of the Ten Commandments.
琼·卡特觊觎邻居的配偶，这意味着她违反了十诫之一。
Loving Johnny Cash was a sin, and for her, the wages of sin were death-- a death in which the sinner spent all eternity as nothing more than kindling.
爱约翰尼·卡什是一种罪过，对她来说，罪孽的工价就是死亡——罪人在这种死亡中度过了永恒，只不过是点燃火种。
When June Carter admitted to herself that she loved Johnny Cash, it is, in a small Country and Western love song way, not unlike the moment Huck Finn resolves to help the slave Jim escape, even though he's been told that doing so would be wrong.
当琼·卡特向自己承认她爱约翰尼·卡什时，就像一首乡村和西部情歌的小曲一样，就像哈克·芬决心帮助奴隶吉姆逃跑的那一刻，尽管他被告知这样做是错误的。
"All right then," he says.
“那么好吧，”他说。
"I'll go to hell."
“我会下地狱的。”
This is from June's recording of "Ring of Fire." Notice, no trumpets.
这是来自 June 的“Ring of Fire”录音。注意，没有喇叭。
Just an old-timey fiddle, and she strums her autoharp, maybe ribbing her husband a little by pointing out in the liner notes, "That's the way I've heard it from the beginning."
只是一把老式的小提琴，她弹奏着她的自动竖琴，也许是在讽刺她的丈夫，在歌词中指出，“这就是我从一开始就听到的方式。”
[SINGING] The taste of love is sweet when hearts like ours meet.
[歌唱] 当我们这样的心相遇时，爱情的味道是甜蜜的。
I fell for you like a child.
我像个孩子一样爱上了你。
Oh, but the fire went wild.
哦，但是火势猛烈了。
There's an acre of misgiving in that little word, "oh." As in, oh, what have I done.
“哦”这个小小的词里充满了疑虑。就像，哦，我做了什么。
Oh, his poor wife.
哦，他可怜的妻子。
Oh, Lord, forgive me.
噢，主啊，请原谅我。
Oh, for crying out loud, I better flush his pills down the toilet yet again.
噢，大声哭出来，我最好再把他的药冲进马桶。
Oh, I am Grand Ole Opry royalty, and this belligerent drug addict is about to get banned from my beloved Opry for smashing out the stage lights with a mike stand, and oh, I'm going to love him anyway.
哦，我是大奥普里的皇室成员，这个好战的吸毒者即将因为用麦克风架砸坏舞台灯光而被我心爱的奥普里禁止，哦，无论如何我都会爱他的。
"Ring of Fire" became a number one hit for Johnny Cash in 1963.
1963 年，《Ring of Fire》成为约翰尼·卡什 (Johnny Cash) 的冠军单曲。
Then, finally, he got divorced, and June got divorced, and he got sober, and in 1968 they got married.
最后，他离婚了，琼也离婚了，他清醒了，1968 年他们结婚了。
When I say that Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash's romance was the greatest love story of the 20th century, I'm not just thinking about their fiery courtship, though your better love stories do require that obstacles are overcome, and the Cashs had plenty of those.
当我说约翰尼·卡什和琼·卡特·卡什的爱情故事是 20 世纪最伟大的爱情故事时，我想到的不仅仅是他们火热的求爱，尽管更好的爱情故事确实需要克服障碍，而卡什夫妇就有很多这样的障碍。
I was really thinking about their marriage-- 35 years of actual happily ever after.
我真的在想他们的婚姻——35年的幸福生活。
The pictures of the two of them together through the years are almost suspiciously entertaining to look at.
多年来他们两人在一起的照片看起来几乎令人怀疑地有趣。
Johnny's cracking June up, or she's cracking him up, or in my favorite, the photo on his compilation album, Love , she's fallen asleep against his shoulder.
约翰尼在逗弄琼，或者她在逗他，或者在我最喜欢的他合辑《爱》中的照片中，她靠着他的肩膀睡着了。
His chin is resting on her head, and he might be smelling her hair.
他的下巴抵在她的头上，他可能正在闻她的头发。
In his liner notes next to that picture, Johnny Cash says that he's sitting there thinking about Robert Browning's poem about the death of his wife Elizabeth Barrett Browning, when June Carter Cash walks in and wonders what he'd like to eat for lunch.
在那张照片旁边的内页注释中，约翰尼·卡什说，他坐在那里思考罗伯特·布朗宁关于他妻子伊丽莎白·巴雷特·布朗宁之死的诗，这时琼·卡特·卡什走进来，想知道他午餐想吃什么。
And that seems about right-- the two of them in a room together, pondering sandwiches and poetry.
这似乎是对的——他们两个一起在一个房间里，思考着三明治和诗歌。
Grandly, he often credited her with saving his life.
他常常夸奖她救了他的命。
But he also bragged, she likes the same kind of movies I do.
但他还吹嘘，她喜欢的电影和我一样。
On June's solo album, Press On , after her "Ring of Fire," the very next song is a duet with Johnny.
在 June 的个人专辑《Press On》中，继她的《Ring of Fire》之后，下一首歌曲是与 Johnny 的二重唱。
It's a gospel ballad narrated by an old married couple worried that one will die before the other.
这是一首福音歌谣，由一对担心其中一方会先于另一方死去的老夫妇讲述。
Worried about getting left behind.
担心落后。
"If it proves to be as well that I am first to cross," June sings, "and somehow I have a feeling it will be."
“如果事实证明我是第一个穿越的，”琼唱道，“不知怎的，我有一种感觉，它会的。”
[SINGING] But if it proves to be his will that I am first to cross, and somehow I've a feeling it will be.
[歌唱] 但如果事实证明我是第一个跨越的人，而且我有一种感觉，那就是了。
When it comes your time to travel, likewise don't feel lost.
到了旅行的时候，同样不要感到迷失。
For I will be the first one that you'll see.
因为我将是你第一个看到的人。
And I'll be waiting on the far side banks of Jordan.
我会在约旦河对岸等待。
I'll be sitting, drawing pictures in the sand.
我会坐着，在沙子上画画。
And when I see you coming, I will rise up with a shout and come running through the shallow water, reaching for your hand.
当我看到你来的时候，我会大喊一声站起来，跑过浅水，伸手去抓你的手。
As she predicted in the song, June died first.
正如她在歌曲中所预言的那样，琼先死了。
Four months later, Johnny was buried next to her, because, as he once said, "This thing between us has been happening since 1961, and I just don't want to travel if she can't come with me."
四个月后，约翰尼被埋在她旁边，因为正如他曾经说过的，“我们之间的事情自 1961 年以来就一直在发生，如果她不能和我一起去，我只是不想旅行。”
[SINGING] So I'll just rest here on the shore and turn my eyes away until you come and we'll see paradise."
[唱歌] 所以我就在岸边休息，把眼睛移开，直到你到来，我们会看到天堂。”
Sarah Vowell has got a brand new book, Assassination Vacation, that comes out in April.
莎拉·沃威尔（Sarah Vowell）有一本全新的书，《刺杀假期》，将于四月出版。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Our program was produced today by Alex Blumberg and myself with Diane Cook, Wendy Dorr, and Starlee Kine.
今天我们的节目由 Alex Blumberg 和我本人以及 Diane Cook、Wendy Dorr 和 Starlee Kine 制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Stacy Tiderington.
托德·巴赫曼 (Todd Bachmann) 和史黛西·泰德林顿 (Stacy Tiderington) 为制作提供帮助。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who is officially our boss, but really, at this point, after all these years, he's more like a co-worker, and he's my friend.
WBEZ 的管理监督是 Torey Malatia 先生对我们项目的管理，他正式是我们的老板，但实际上，经过这么多年，在这一点上，他更像是一位同事，也是我的朋友。
And his dad just died this week, and all of our hearts go out to him, and his mom, and his family.
他的父亲本周刚刚去世，我们所有人的心都与他、他的母亲和他的家人同在。
We'll resume making fun of him in a week or two.
一两周后我们就会继续取笑他。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。