246: My Pen Pal - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #246 | June 2, 2017 246: My Pen Pal Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 246 集 | 2017 年 6 月 2 日 246：我的笔友 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass This story takes place so long ago here in America that the stuff that we normally think of as long ago is in the far, far distant future.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这个故事发生在很久以前的美国，以至于我们通常认为很久以前的事情都发生在遥远、遥远的未来。
It's 100 years before Thomas Jefferson and George Washington are even born-- the year 1635.
托马斯·杰斐逊 (Thomas Jefferson) 和乔治·华盛顿 (George Washington) 出生已有 100 年，即 1635 年。
That year, this guy named Roger Williams, who was this charismatic young preacher, gets banished by the brand new state of Massachusetts, because he goes around questioning a lot of things, including the central premise of what the settlers were trying to do.
那一年，这个名叫罗杰·威廉姆斯的人，一位富有魅力的年轻传教士，被全新的马萨诸塞州驱逐，因为他到处质疑很多事情，包括定居者试图做的事情的核心前提。
In particular, he was questioning the teachings of a guy named John Winthrop.
特别是，他质疑一个名叫约翰·温思罗普的人的教义。
Winthrop was the elected leader of the colonists, and he was very clear about what they were doing there in the new world.
温思罗普是殖民者民选的领袖，他非常清楚他们在新世界里做什么。
They were creating God's kingdom on earth.
他们正在地上创造神的国度。
It was going to be a religious community.
这将是一个宗教社区。
They would obey God's laws.
他们会遵守上帝的律法。
That was the point of it.
这就是重点。
This young guy, Roger Williams, had the radical idea that maybe there should be a separation of church and state on this new continent.
这个年轻人，罗杰威廉姆斯，有一个激进的想法，也许在这个新大陆上应该实现教会和国家的分离。
So the powers that be, including John Winthrop, who, at this point, was the governor of Massachusetts, got together and agreed that this could not stand.
因此，包括当时担任马萨诸塞州州长的约翰·温思罗普在内的当权者聚集在一起，一致认为这种做法是站不住脚的。
This radical, anti-Christian agenda had no place on this new continent.
这种激进的、反基督教的议程在这个新大陆上没有立足之地。
And they voted to expel Roger Williams, send him back to England.
他们投票决定驱逐罗杰·威廉姆斯，将他送回英格兰。
In this dark hour, one person steps in, secretly, to help Williams.
在这个黑暗的时刻，一个人悄悄介入，帮助威廉姆斯。
That person was the governor of Massachusetts, William's main adversary, John Winthrop.
这个人就是马萨诸塞州州长，威廉的主要对手约翰·温思罗普。
There are all these fascinating hints that Winthrop really liked Roger Williams.
所有这些令人着迷的暗示都表明温思罗普真的很喜欢罗杰·威廉姆斯。
This is Ted Widmer, historian, director of the Kluge Center for Research at the Library of Congress and, by the way, a former speechwriter for President Clinton.
这是泰德·维德默，历史学家，国会图书馆克鲁格研究中心主任，顺便说一句，他也是克林顿总统的前演讲撰稿人。
In fact, at the crucial moment when Roger Williams is about to be arrested and put on a ship and sent back to England, Winthrop sends word privately-- we don't quite know how-- that Williams really ought to go down to Narragansett Bay.
事实上，在罗杰·威廉姆斯即将被捕并被送上船送回英国的关键时刻，温思罗普私下发出消息——我们不太知道如何——威廉姆斯确实应该前往纳拉甘西特湾。
And Winthrop helps him to escape, even as he's publicly voting for his banishment.
温思罗普帮助他逃脱，尽管他公开投票支持驱逐他。
Williams does go to Narragansett Bay, where he founds the state of Rhode Island.
威廉姆斯确实去了纳拉甘西特湾，他在那里建立了罗德岛州。
And then he and the guy whose administration just kicked him out had this kind of amazing correspondence, which lasted for years.
然后他和那个刚刚被政府开除的人建立了这种令人惊奇的通信，这种通信持续了很多年。
The governor, Winthrop, wanted to hear how Williams was surviving, and Williams, all of a sudden, is the leader of his own colony.
总督温思罗普想听听威廉姆斯是如何生存的，而威廉姆斯突然成为了他自己殖民地的领导者。
And among other things, he needs advice.
除此之外，他还需要建议。
Williams is adjusting from having been this dissenting figure, this person who was very quick to point out what was wrong in the way Massachusetts was governed, to suddenly having to organize a government and get the people even crazier than him to tow the line.
威廉姆斯正在调整自己，从曾经的持不同政见者、很快指出马萨诸塞州治理方式的错误的人，到突然不得不组织一个政府，并让比他更疯狂的人民来主导。
And he's complaining to Winthrop about how hard it is to organize a government.
他向温思罗普抱怨组织政府有多么困难。
So this is a letter from the person who's been banished to the person who, more or less, banished him, and yet it's very friendly.
这是一封被放逐者写给或多或少放逐他的人的信，但它非常友好。
It says, "Much honored sir, the frequent experience of your loving ear, ready and open toward me, emboldened me to request a word of private advice with the soonest convenience it may be by this messenger."
信中写道：“非常荣幸的先生，经常听到您慈爱的耳朵，随时准备向我敞开心扉，这使我有勇气以最快的速度请求这位使者提供私人建议。”
It's a little hard to get through the 17th century tone, but there's an enormous affection always underlying what he's saying to him, pouring his heart out to the person who is kind of a surrogate father.
17世纪的语气有点难以理解，但他对他说的话中始终隐藏着一种巨大的感情，向这个有点像代理父亲的人倾诉心声。
Does he ever actually say, how could you do this to me?
他有没有真正说过，你怎么可以这样对我？
You kicked me out?
你把我赶出去了？
The tone comes out, but he never says it explicitly.
语气出来了，但他却始终没有明确地说出来。
Actually, in the next line after that, he says, "The condition of myself and those few families here planting with me you know full well," which is a pretty interesting sentence.
其实，他的下一句是：“我自己以及和我一起种植的那几户人家的情况你都清楚。”这是一句很有趣的句子。
It's sort of like, you know why I'm here, and you know how I got here.
有点像，你知道我为什么在这里，你也知道我是怎么到这里的。
But they don't.
但他们没有。
No, they don't really dwell on it.
不，他们并没有真正关注它。
If you think about it, the only place their relationship could exist at all was through these letters.
如果你仔细想想，他们的关系唯一可能存在的地方就是通过这些信件。
The letters were this paper-thin space where these people, who could not have had any other way to be friends, had this exchange that seemed very important to both of them.
信件就像纸一样薄薄的空间，这些不可能有任何其他方式成为朋友的人进行了这种对他们两人来说似乎都非常重要的交流。
And it's funny, you know, how letters really do not work that way for many of us anymore.
有趣的是，你知道，字母对我们许多人来说真的不再那么有效了。
If anything, we have so many different ways to stay in touch with each other that we do not even notice that we're staying in touch over long distances.
如果说有什么不同的话，那就是我们有很多不同的方式来保持联系，以至于我们甚至没有注意到我们是在远距离保持联系。
I think it's so easy to communicate that there's almost no reason to communicate anything of interest, you know?
我认为交流是如此容易，几乎没有理由交流任何有趣的事情，你知道吗？
It's become like breathing.
变得像呼吸一样。
And if you listen to cell phone conversations on the train, it's always just monosyllables like, "hi, I'm here," or, "I'll be there at 5:19 instead of 5:18." And it's the most boring verbiage you'll ever hear, listening to someone else talking into their cell phone.
如果你在火车上听手机通话，它总是只是单音节词，比如“嗨，我在这里”，或者“我会在 5:19 而不是 5:18 到那里。”这是你听过的最无聊的废话，听别人用手机说话。
And back then, it was extremely difficult to write a letter.
那时，写信是极其困难的。
You weren't sure if it was going to be delivered.
你不确定它是否会被交付。
And because letters took more work, people made sure they said something.
由于信件需要更多的工作，人们确保他们说的是一些话。
And there were real things to say.
还有一些真实的事情要说。
I mean, every week brought a new challenge.
我的意思是，每周都会带来新的挑战。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
Every now and then, you still do get this kind of correspondence, where people write letters because that is the only way they could have any interaction.
时不时地，你仍然会收到这种信件，人们写信，因为这是他们进行互动的唯一方式。
And today on our radio program, we are devoting most of the hour to a story like that-- of an unusual relationship that mostly happened in letters, this one between a 10-year-old girl and an enemy of the United States of America, a man accused of being a dictator, a drug runner, a murderer, a man accused of double-crossing the United States.
今天在我们的广播节目中，我们用大部分时间来讲述这样的故事——一种不寻常的关系，主要发生在信件中，这个故事发生在一个10岁的女孩和一个美利坚合众国的敌人之间，一个被指控为独裁者、一个毒贩、一个杀人犯、一个被指控出卖美国的人之间。
And we have a little story at the end of the hour about what it is like to get a letter every single day for eight years from your own husband.
我们在最后讲了一个小故事，讲述八年来每天收到自己丈夫的来信是什么感觉。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Who Put the Pistol in Epistolary?
第一幕，谁把手枪放进书信体？
Andrea Morningstar has the story of two pen pals.
安德里亚·晨星 (Andrea Morningstar) 有两个笔友的故事。
One of them a young girl in the Midwest.
其中一位是中西部的年轻女孩。
The other, somebody who was considered, at the time, an international, or at least hemispheric, menace.
另一个人在当时被认为是国际威胁，或者至少是半球威胁。
We first aired this story back in 2003.
我们于 2003 年首次播出这个故事。
When you're driving to Palmer from the west, the first thing you'll notice are these strange orange cliffs up ahead of you, rising above the pine-covered hills.
当您从西边开车前往帕尔默时，您首先会注意到的是前方这些奇怪的橙色悬崖，它们耸立在松树覆盖的山丘之上。
They would make sense in Utah or the Mojave Desert, but here in the lush green hills of Michigan's Upper Peninsula, they stick out and look almost scary.
它们在犹他州或莫哈韦沙漠是有意义的，但在密歇根州上半岛郁郁葱葱的绿色山丘上，它们却显得很突出，看起来几乎令人恐惧。
This is the site of the Palmer Mines.
这是帕尔默矿场的所在地。
The air in Palmer is sooty and metallic, and a black dust settles down on the homes of the miners.
帕尔默的空气充满煤烟和金属味，黑色的灰尘落在矿工的家里。
A few miles down the road from here, Sarah York grew up in a house that her parents built.
距离这里几英里的地方，莎拉·约克 (Sarah York) 在她父母建造的房子里长大。
Her dad, Mitchell, worked for the mine for years until he got a job as a corrections officer at the nearby prison.
她的父亲米切尔在矿井工作了多年，直到他在附近的监狱找到了一份惩教官的工作。
Pauline, Sarah's mom, worked as a dental hygienist.
莎拉的妈妈宝琳是一名牙科保健员。
One night in February in 1988, they were all at home watching 60 Minutes.
1988 年 2 月的一个晚上，他们都在家看《60 分钟》。
That night, Mike Wallace was interviewing General Manuel Noriega.
那天晚上，迈克·华莱士正在采访曼努埃尔·诺列加将军。
He was the big news at the time.
他是当时的大新闻。
Here's Sarah.
这是莎拉。
I'm pretty sure that the 60 Minutes program was about charges that were being brought up against him, or just accusations that he was a drug trafficker and a bunch of other stuff.
我很确定 60 分钟节目是关于对他提出的指控，或者只是指控他是毒贩和其他一些东西。
I asked my husband.
我问我丈夫。
I said, well, what do you think about this?
我说，那你觉得这件事怎么样？
Then he says, oh, I don't-- he was kind of giving his opinion about it.
然后他说，哦，我不——他对此发表了自己的看法。
And I said, well, I don't really know what to think.
我说，好吧，我真的不知道该怎么想。
But the discussion ended with, he had a pretty nice hat on, though.
但讨论结束时，他戴着一顶漂亮的帽子。
And Sarah's dad has always had some kind of interesting hat from somewhere or another.
莎拉的爸爸总是从某个地方买了一顶有趣的帽子。
Oh, yeah, I had a Mao hat-- Andrea Morningstar Sarah's dad, Mitchell.
哦，是的，我有一顶毛泽东帽子——安德里亚·晨星·莎拉的爸爸，米切尔。
--from China, oh, and different cowboy hats.
——来自中国，哦，还有不同的牛仔帽。
And I made the comment that, well, I suppose that you could write to him and ask for a hat.
我评论说，好吧，我想你可以写信给他要一顶帽子。
Everyone has one down there, or several.
每个人都有一个，或者几个。
But I said, I don't think you're going to have much luck.
但我说，我认为你不会有太多运气。
Maybe if a kid did it, then it would happen.
也许如果一个孩子这么做了，那么事情就会发生。
And there's Sarah, saying, well, I'll write to him.
莎拉说，好吧，我会写信给他。
You know, maybe he'll send us a hat.
你知道，也许他会寄给我们一顶帽子。
We made sure to put in the letter that we I really liked his hat.
我们一定要在信中写明我们真的很喜欢他的帽子。
We had this stationery that I wrote it on that had a partridge on it.
我们有一张信纸，我在上面写了这句话，上面有一只鹧鸪。
We thought it would be a nice touch.
我们认为这会是一个很好的接触。
I should mention that Sarah had her 18-month-old baby on her lap when we talked.
我应该提一下，当我们谈话时，莎拉把她 18 个月大的孩子放在腿上。
[BABY COOING] Sarah York And I think I drafted out something on notebook paper, and we worked on it a little bit.
[婴儿咕咕声]莎拉·约克 我想我在笔记本纸上起草了一些东西，我们做了一些工作。
I guess I can say I coached her a little bit.
我想我可以说我对她进行了一些指导。
I said, you don't want to just come out right and ask him for a hat, you know?
我说，你不想直接出来向他要帽子，知道吗？
You gotta say something nice.
你得说点好听的
So she did, and just mentioned about how she had been seeing him on TV, and hoped that our countries could still remain friends.
她就这么做了，只是提到她在电视上看到他的情景，并希望我们两国仍能保持朋友关系。
It was clear and direct, and she complimented him on the hat.
说得清楚又直接，她称赞了他的帽子。
[CHUCKLES] It was simple.
[笑]这很简单。
Well, I read the first letter and I don't remember writing that.
嗯，我读过第一封信，但我不记得写过那封信。
And it's kind of like, I feel like it's a joke coming back to haunt me that my dad played on me in a way.
有点像，我觉得这是我父亲在某种程度上对我开的一个玩笑，一直困扰着我。
Like, I don't know.
就像，我不知道。
He probably was like, oh wouldn't it be cute if she said this?
他可能会想，哦，如果她这么说不是很可爱吗？
"Dear General Noriega, congratulations on the patriotic support of your people.
“亲爱的诺列加将军，祝贺贵国人民的爱国支持。
I hope this letter finds you and your countrymen well.
我希望这封信您和您的同胞一切安好。
I am a 10-year-old American schoolgirl.
我是一名 10 岁的美国女学生。
I study Central America.
我研究中美洲。
It is a special interest to me.
我对此特别感兴趣。
I have seen you on television often here in the United States.
我在美国经常在电视上看到你。
Your hat was greatly admired here.
你的帽子在这里很受赞赏。
Sadly, we can get nothing like it.
可悲的是，我们什么也得不到。
I hope friendship will remain--
希望友谊长存——
Yeah, I said that, you know, I really liked your hat, and "sadly, we can get nothing like it here." Come on.
是的，我说过，你知道，我真的很喜欢你的帽子，“遗憾的是，我们在这里买不到类似的东西。”来吧。
Jeez, he's got to send me a hat.
天哪，他得送我一顶帽子。
Well, we just put, "General Manuel Noriega, Panama City, Panama." I mean, there's probably only one General Manuel Noriega there.
好吧，我们只是输入“曼努埃尔·诺列加将军，巴拿马巴拿马城”。我的意思是，那里可能只有一位曼努埃尔·诺列加将军。
And it got there.
它到达了那里。
And it was totally amazing, because it was probably about a month later that I went out to get the mail and there was this letter addressed to Sarah, and it had this Panamanian-- some type of a military flag type thing on it.
这真是太神奇了，因为大概一个月后，我出去取邮件时，发现了这封写给莎拉的信，上面有巴拿马语——某种军旗之类的东西。
And it was like, whoa.
就像，哇。
I knew she'd get a return.
我知道她会得到回报。
I had a feeling.
我有一种感觉。
She was so cute at the time.
那时的她真是太可爱了。
She was in braces and just got her glasses.
她戴着牙套，刚刚戴上眼镜。
I thought she would get an answer.
我以为她会得到答案。
And she did, pretty quickly.
她很快就做到了。
Pauline York She was in fifth grade.
宝琳·约克（Pauline York），她上五年级。
And I couldn't stand it.
我无法忍受。
I had to go to the school right away and show her this, because it was pretty amazing.
我必须马上去学校给她看这个，因为这太神奇了。
Yeah, it was probably one of the most exciting things that ever happened to me.
是的，这可能是我经历过的最令人兴奋的事情之一。
I get this letter.
我收到这封信。
Everyone loves getting mail, anyway, but from a foreign leader?
无论如何，每个人都喜欢收到邮件，但是来自外国领导人的邮件呢？
Wow.
哇。
"Dear Sarah, I feel honored by your letter.
“亲爱的莎拉，收到你的来信我感到很荣幸。
I appreciate your message of faith and friendship.
我很欣赏你传递的信仰和友谊的信息。
I hope you continue sending your message and tell me about yourself and your city.
我希望您继续发送消息并告诉我有关您自己和您的城市的信息。
With friendship and appreciation, General Manuel Antonio Noriega."
怀着友谊和感激之情，曼努埃尔·安东尼奥·诺列加将军。”
It was just like two sentences.
就像两句话一样。
That was all it was.
仅此而已。
But he did ask her to write again, and to tell him about herself and where she lived.
但他确实要求她再写信，告诉他她自己以及她住在哪里。
And I told him about where I was from.
我告诉他我来自哪里。
I'm from Northern Michigan, which I still think is a pretty special place.
我来自密歇根州北部，我仍然认为那是一个非常特别的地方。
It's kind of out there, as far as away from cities.
它就在那里，远离城市。
And we get a lot of snow, and it gets really cold in the winter.
我们下了很多雪，冬天真的很冷。
They kept on writing back and forth.
他们继续来回写信。
It was usually about once a month.
通常大约每月一次。
At the time these letters were being written, Noriega was as notorious as Saddam Hussein is now.
在写这些信的时候，诺列加和萨达姆·侯赛因现在一样臭名昭著。
He had just been indicted on US racketeering and drug charges, and images of him were all over the news.
他刚刚在美国被指控犯有敲诈勒索和毒品罪，新闻里到处都是他的照片。
Ted Koppel said that Noriega belonged to that special fraternity of international villains-- men like Qaddafi, Idi Amin, and the Ayatollah Khomeini, whom Americans just love to hate.
特德·科佩尔说，诺列加属于国际恶棍的特殊兄弟会——卡扎菲、伊迪·阿明和阿亚图拉霍梅尼等人，美国人对他们又爱又恨。
Dan Rather placed him, quote, "at the top of the list of the world's drug thieves and scums." Things had gone so far that he even had a nickname that sounded like a cartoon criminal-- Pineapple Face.
丹·拉瑟称他为“世界毒枭和败类之首”。事情已经发展到他甚至有了一个听起来像卡通罪犯的绰号——菠萝脸。
Despite the bad press, Noriega and Sarah continued their correspondence, Sarah telling Noriega about herself, and Noriega telling Sarah about his country.
尽管媒体负面报道，诺列加和莎拉继续通信，莎拉向诺列加介绍了她自己，诺列加则向莎拉介绍了他的国家。
Everything was really formal, and he never gave me personal details, I don't think, about his life.
一切都很正式，他从来没有给过我关于他生活的个人细节，我想也没有。
It was almost more like he was this spokesperson for Panama.
这几乎更像是他是巴拿马的发言人。
And I think that's what he wanted to do.
我认为这就是他想做的。
It's not so much make me know him but know his country.
与其说让我了解他，不如说让我了解他的国家。
In this next letter, he says, "I'm very honored with the letter you sent about yourself, your family, and your city.
在下一封信中，他说：“我对你寄来的关于你自己、你的家人和你的城市的信感到非常荣幸。
In addition, your interest to the problems in Panama and Central America, and so I'm sending you some books about my country.
此外，您对巴拿马和中美洲的问题感兴趣，所以我给您寄了一些有关我国的书籍。
I hope that you read them and tell me your opinion about them."
我希望您阅读它们并告诉我您对它们的看法。”
He says, "The US and Panama signed a treaty in 1977 about the Panama Canal, in which the US controls it until December 31, 1999.
他说：“美国和巴拿马于1977年签署了一项关于巴拿马运河的条约，美国控制该运河直至1999年12月31日。
The only thing that we want is that they comply with this agreement and respect the sovereignty of our small country, Panama."
我们唯一希望的是他们遵守这项协议并尊重我们小国巴拿马的主权。”
"And greetings to your parents and brothers, and keep being so studious as you are--" because I told him that I get good grades-- "because it's people like you who are going to make this a different world and a future full of peace."
“向你的父母和兄弟问好，继续像你一样勤奋——”因为我告诉他我取得了好成绩——“因为像你这样的人将使这个世界变得不同，让未来充满和平。”
Noriega, it has to be said, was a very good pen pal.
不得不说，诺列加是一位非常好的笔友。
He was prompt, thorough, polite.
他反应迅速、彻底、有礼貌。
He used pretty stationery and sent presents.
他用漂亮的文具并送礼物。
He even sent a hat like the one Sarah and her dad liked so much.
他甚至还送了一顶莎拉和她爸爸非常喜欢的帽子。
She sent back a picture of her wearing the hat.
她发回了一张她戴着帽子的照片。
But the letter that came next was the biggest surprise.
但接下来的信是最大的惊喜。
It arrived in the mail while Sarah was at school.
当莎拉在学校时，它是通过邮件寄来的。
A manila envelope with an 8 by 10 glossy photograph of Noriega wearing a Panamanian hat, and an invitation for Sarah and her mom to visit him, all expenses paid, in Panama City.
一个马尼拉信封，里面有诺列加戴着巴拿马帽子的 8 x 10 光面照片，以及萨拉和她妈妈去巴拿马城探望他的邀请函，所有费用均已支付。
I called the school and I asked her.
我给学校打电话问她。
I said, Sarah there's this envelope here.
我说，莎拉，这里有这个信封。
I told her, I'm coming up to the school.
我告诉她，我要去学校了。
And we went into the office and we showed it to the principal.
我们走进办公室，把它拿给校长看。
And the principal said, oh, this is fantastic!
校长说，哦，这太棒了！
You're going, aren't you?
你要去，不是吗？
But I did go home and I called my mother and I told her about it.
但我确实回家了，我打电话给我妈妈，告诉她这件事。
I said, well, what do you think?
我说，好吧，你觉得怎么样？
And she said, well, let me think about it.
她说，好吧，让我考虑一下。
And she said, I'll call you back.
她说，我会给你回电话。
And she happened to be over at one of my brothers' houses.
她碰巧在我的一个兄弟家里。
And my one brother was a little bit upset with us for carrying on this correspondence with Noriega, because he was reading Time and Newsweek and those kind of things, and he was going with whatever they had to say.
我的一个兄弟对我们与诺列加进行这种通信感到有点不安，因为他正在阅读《时代》杂志和《新闻周刊》之类的东西，而且他会同意他们所说的一切。
And he said, he's a bad guy, and you should have nothing to do with him.
他说，他是个坏人，你不应该和他有任何关系。
Anyway, I was a little bit worried that he was going to try to influence my mother by what he had to say.
不管怎样，我有点担心他会试图通过他所说的话来影响我的母亲。
But nevertheless, she did go home and she called me back and she said, you know, I really don't think that there should be any kind of problem with Sarah going.
但尽管如此，她还是回家了，给我回了电话，她说，你知道，我真的不认为莎拉去会有任何问题。
I think it will be a great experience for her.
我认为这对她来说将是一次很棒的经历。
And I mean, I have my mother's blessing, [CHUCKLES] and I just thought, that's all I need.
我的意思是，我得到了我母亲的祝福，[笑]我只是想，这就是我所需要的。
It seemed important.
这似乎很重要。
It seemed very important that we got invited and that we're going to do this.
我们受到邀请并且我们将这样做似乎非常重要。
How something happens in your life is always different after that.
此后，你的生活中发生的事情总是会有所不同。
It had that kind of feeling to it.
它有那种感觉。
At the time, Noriega wasn't just arguing with the US.
当时，诺列加不仅仅与美国争论。
He faced dissent at home from Panamanians who didn't want the United States to pull out of Panama, which was scheduled to happen by January of 2000 under the Panama Canal Treaty signed by Jimmy Carter and Omar Torrijos.
他在国内面临巴拿马人的反对，他们不希望美国从巴拿马撤军，根据吉米·卡特和奥马尔·托里霍斯签署的《巴拿马运河条约》，美国计划于 2000 年 1 月从巴拿马撤军。
It wasn't clear then if the United States was going to comply with the treaty.
当时尚不清楚美国是否会遵守该条约。
The Reagan and Bush administrations both declared that they would not turn the canal over to Panama as long as Noriega was in power.
里根和布什政府都宣称，只要诺列加执政，他们就不会把运河交给巴拿马。
At a rally where Noriega was addressing the issue, he held up one of Sarah's letters and told the crowd that even American children offer their support.
在诺列加讨论这一问题的一次集会上，他举起莎拉的一封信，告诉人群，即使是美国儿童也会提供支持。
Afterwards, one of his secretaries came up to him and said, why are you showing them the letter?
后来，他的一位秘书走过来对他说，你为什么给他们看这封信？
Why not just get the girl?
为什么不直接去找那个女孩呢？
And so that's what he did.
他就是这样做的。
He invited Sarah and her mother.
他邀请了莎拉和她的母亲。
Sarah's dad stayed at home.
莎拉的父亲留在家里。
In the years since all this happened, there's no longer much doubt about the way Noriega ran Panama.
自从这一切发生以来，人们对诺列加治理巴拿马的方式不再有太多疑问。
Human rights groups have documented how the Panamanian defense forces, under his direction, beat, jailed, and deported opposition leaders.
人权组织记录了巴拿马国防军如何在他的指挥下殴打、监禁和驱逐反对派领导人。
An official Panamanian Truth Commission was able to prove that 110 people were killed or disappeared.
巴拿马官方真相委员会证实有 110 人被杀或失踪。
Back then, it's not like Sarah's parents thought Noriega was an angel, but they weren't ready to believe the hype in the press, and they encouraged their kids to think for themselves.
当时，莎拉的父母并不认为诺列加是天使，但他们还没有准备好相信媒体的炒作，他们鼓励孩子独立思考。
I knew that I was going to get plenty of the bad guy story, so why not get a story from the bad guy?
我知道我会得到很多坏人的故事，那么为什么不得到坏人的故事呢？
But I don't know that I ever said, I'm going to be the judge of this.
但我不知道我曾经说过，我将成为这件事的评判者。
I think it was more just, let's see what happens, or, let's see what we can find out.
我认为这更公正，让我们看看会发生什么，或者，让我们看看我们能找到什么。
I remember just getting all our clothes together, because my mom wanted me to look really nice.
我记得把我们所有的衣服都放在一起，因为我妈妈希望我看起来非常漂亮。
And I think she might have made me a new dress.
我想她可能给我做了一件新衣服。
And I remember we had to buy me some new socks because my socks were too ratty, and we went to this children's clothing store, which I couldn't believe because, in my mind, I was not a child anymore.
我记得我们不得不给我买一些新袜子，因为我的袜子太破烂了，我们去了这家童装店，我简直不敢相信，因为在我看来，我不再是孩子了。
And we got the white socks with the turned-down cuff with the ruffle on the bottom, which was pretty borderline too young for me.
我们买了一双白色的袜子，袖口翻折，底部有褶边，这对我来说太年轻了。
I was really into making friendship bracelets at the time out of knotted embroidery floss.
当时我真的很喜欢用打结的绣花线制作友谊手镯。
You guys probably remember.
大家想必还记得吧。
And I remember making Noriega a bracelet in camouflage colors.
我记得给诺列加做了一个迷彩色的手镯。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
The night before we were going to leave, I was busy, busy packing, and we got a phone call from our congressman's office in Washington.
在我们离开的前一天晚上，我忙着收拾行李，我们接到了华盛顿国会议员办公室打来的电话。
And this guy says, well, I know it's a little bit late for this.
这个人说，好吧，我知道现在有点晚了。
He says, but I was asked to call you and tell you not to go on this trip.
他说，但我被要求给你打电话并告诉你不要参加这次旅行。
And he says, but I don't suppose I could talk you out of it, could I?
他说，但我想我无法说服你放弃它，可以吗？
And I don't know he didn't really want me to say yeah, I won't go.
我不知道他并不是真的想让我说“是的，我不会去”。
He didn't really care.
他并不在乎。
I could tell.
我看得出来。
But, he said, so I just thought I'd give it a try.
但是，他说，所以我只是想尝试一下。
It was an all-day trip.
这是一整天的旅行。
We left at 6:00 in the morning and we got down there to Miami, and our plane was delayed for three hours.
我们早上6:00出发，到达迈阿密，我们的飞机延误了三个小时。
So we got down there at like 9 or 10 o'clock at night.
所以我们晚上九点或十点左右到达那里。
When we landed, it was dark, and the city looked so enormous.
当我们着陆时，天已经黑了，这座城市显得如此巨大。
And I don't think, when we were planning the trip, we knew much about what was actually going to take place when we went there.
我认为，当我们计划旅行时，我们并不太了解去那里时实际会发生什么。
The stewardess came over to us and said, we just got a message out of Panama City that you are going to be the first ones off the plane, so we want you to come up and sit in the front.
空姐走过来对我们说，我们刚刚从巴拿马城收到一条消息，你们将是第一个下飞机的人，所以我们希望你们上来坐在前面。
So we went up to the front.
于是我们就走到了前面。
And they asked us to give them our baggage tickets and things.
他们要求我们给他们行李票和东西。
Somebody was going to take care of all that business.
会有人来处理所有这些事务。
And as soon as this door is opened on the plane--
飞机上这扇门一打开——
We were whisked away by these people.
我们就被这些人带走了。
This was really overwhelming to me, because I had been on an airplane all day.
这对我来说真的是难以承受，因为我一整天都在飞机上。
I just remember feeling really hazy about all this and kind of just letting myself get dragged along.
我只记得对这一切感觉非常模糊，有点让自己被拖着走。
And I just knew that I had to keep smiling because flashbulbs were going off everywhere and everyone was saying my name.
我只知道我必须保持微笑，因为到处都是闪光灯，每个人都在喊我的名字。
Throughout her entire trip, Sarah was appointed a personal videographer who documented her every move.
在整个旅程中，莎拉被任命为一名私人摄像师，记录她的一举一动。
The video starts as Sarah and her mother are hurried from the plane to a press conference, where Sarah meets the mayor of the city and is given a scroll proclaiming her a "Meritorious Daughter of Panama."
视频开始时，莎拉和她的母亲匆匆下飞机前往新闻发布会，在那里莎拉会见了该市的市长，并获得了一个卷轴，宣称她是“巴拿马的功勋女儿”。
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
Interpreter I declare Sarah York--
翻译我宣布莎拉·约克——
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
Interpreter --a great friend of--
翻译——一位好朋友——
She's also given the key to the city, the second one ever presented to an American.
她还获得了这座城市的钥匙，这是有史以来第二把钥匙送给美国人。
The first one was given to Jimmy Carter.
第一个给了吉米·卡特。
Panamanian and American reporters call out questions over the sound of cameras clicking.
巴拿马和美国记者对摄像机的咔嗒声提出了质疑。
On the airplane, we asked the stewardess, how do you say "good evening"?
在飞机上，我们问空姐，“晚上好”怎么说？
Because I said, you gotta be able to-- you might have to make a statement, Sarah.
因为我说过，你必须能够——你可能必须发表声明，莎拉。
And she's like, well, what am I going to say?
她说，好吧，我该说什么？
And I said, well, we can maybe figure something out.
我说，好吧，我们也许可以想出办法。
And so this stewardess or flight attendant, told us that "buenas tardes" is "good evening," and so that's what Sarah managed to get out.
这位空姐或空姐告诉我们“buenas tardes”是“晚上好”，这就是莎拉设法说出来的。
Buenas tardes.
迟到了。
Woman Oh, she says buenas tardes.
女人哦，她说“buenas tardes”。
In the video, Sarah can barely speak through the huge grin on her face.
在视频中，莎拉脸上笑容满面，几乎无法说话。
When she does talk, she takes deep breaths and speaks carefully.
当她说话时，她会深呼吸并小心翼翼地说话。
As the flashbulbs glint off her big, round glasses, she looks dazed and fragile.
当闪光灯在她的大圆眼镜上闪烁时，她看起来茫然而脆弱。
Aren't you going to tell him that you're happy that he invited you here?
你不想告诉他你很高兴他邀请你来这里吗？
Yeah.
是的。
You can tell him that I'm happy that he invited me here, and I'm really excited to be here.
你可以告诉他，我很高兴他邀请我来这里，我很高兴来到这里。
Tell them you're speechless.
告诉他们你无话可说。
Younger Sarah York I'm just speechless.
小莎拉·约克我简直无语了。
I just felt like such a celebrity.
我只是觉得自己像个名人。
Everyone seemed like they knew me already.
每个人似乎都已经认识我了。
[LAUGHS] I was just-- I don't know.
[笑]我只是——我不知道。
I was just really amazed, and felt really loved.
我真的很惊讶，也感到真的被爱着。
Oh, they told me that I was going to see the Canal and that I was going to go to the fair, and go to see a couple of cities and meet a lot of people here.
哦，他们告诉我，我要去看看运河，去展会，去几个城市看看，在这里遇到很多人。
Since they arrived late in the evening, they wouldn't meet the general until the next day.
由于他们到达的时间已经很晚了，所以要到第二天才能见到将军。
Their celebrity entry into Panama ended in a good night's sleep at a nice hotel.
他们的名人进入巴拿马之旅最终在一家不错的酒店睡了一夜好觉。
In the morning, they were led by an entourage to the Defense Forces headquarters.
早上，他们在随行人员的带领下前往国防军总部。
The steps to the building were lined with soldiers in their uniforms at attention.
通往大楼的台阶上站满了身穿制服的士兵。
When they reached the top of the steps, Noriega himself was there to greet them.
当他们到达台阶顶端时，诺列加亲自在那里迎接他们。
He was right there, and he put his hand right out and said, welcome.
他就在那里，伸出手说，欢迎。
And he gave us each the traditional, you grab the hand and then you do the kiss on each cheek type thing.
他给了我们每个人传统的，你抓住手，然后你在每个脸颊上亲吻这样的事情。
And he did that.
他做到了。
He looked just like he did on TV or in pictures.
他看起来就像电视或照片上一样。
I knew who he was right away.
我立刻就知道他是谁了。
First of all, we exchanged gifts.
首先，我们交换了礼物。
We brought him down a few things from Michigan.
我们给他带来了一些来自密歇根的东西。
And that's when he gave Sarah a little Teddy bear in fatigues.
就在那时，他送给莎拉一只穿着迷彩服的小泰迪熊。
I think we brought him a snow globe that you shake.
我想我们给他带来了一个你可以摇动的雪球。
Just things that were different-- that we thought would be different to them.
只是一些不同的东西——我们认为对他们来说会有所不同。
I thought he was this big guy.
我以为他是个大人物。
I mean, just from what you saw, I thought he was this hefty guy, and he wasn't.
我的意思是，仅从你所看到的来看，我以为他是个魁梧的家伙，但事实并非如此。
He was about my size.
他和我差不多大。
I'm not kidding.
我不是在开玩笑。
He's petite.
他身材娇小。
But anyway, I made him this shirt.
但无论如何，我给他做了这件衬衫。
It was a khaki-colored thing.
那是一个土黄色的东西。
I made it like extra large, and I was sitting there going, man alive.
我把它做得特别大，我就坐在那里，活着。
I was really kind of embarrassed when I gave it to him.
当我把它交给他时，我真的有点尴尬。
I said, well, maybe you can find somebody that this is going to fit.
我说，好吧，也许你可以找到合适的人。
He held it up to him, and it was like a mile too big.
他把它举到面前，感觉它太大了一英里。
But he said, it's very, very nice.
但他说，这非常非常好。
Oh, you made this.
哦，这是你做的。
After we exchanged gifts, I said to him, we have a few questions.
我们交换了礼物后，我对他说，我们有几个问题。
I said, would you mind answering a few questions for us?
我说，你介意回答我们几个问题吗？
And he said, sure, ask me anything.
他说，当然，有什么问题就问我吧。
And I said, if you don't want to answer anything, you just tell us, if we ask a question that you don't want to answer.
我说，如果你不想回答任何问题，如果我们问你不想回答的问题，你就告诉我们。
We just started out with basic stuff, like when is your birthday?
我们只是从基本的东西开始，比如你的生日是什么时候？
When were you born?
你什么时候出生？
And where were you born?
你出生在哪里？
And do you have brothers and sisters?
你有兄弟姐妹吗？
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
Interpreter Three older brothers.
翻译 三个哥哥。
He was just really friendly and really smiley and almost just as much as his letters-- very formal and kind, but not super personal.
他真的很友好，真的很微笑，几乎和他的信一样——非常正式和友善，但不是超级私人的。
If you could vote in the upcoming US presidential election, who would you vote for?
如果你可以在即将到来的美国总统选举中投票，你会投票给谁？
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
Manuel Noriega [SPEAKING SPANISH].
曼努埃尔·诺列加 [说西班牙语]。
Oh!
哦！
Yeah, right.
是的，对。
If he was going to vote, he would vote for you.
如果他要投票，他就会投票给你。
But then finally, we got into some things about the Panama Canal.
但最后，我们讨论了一些有关巴拿马运河的事情。
I don't think we ever asked him any questions about drugs and drug trafficking.
我想我们从来没有问过他任何有关毒品和贩毒的问题。
We just didn't.
我们只是没有。
We had read enough of that kind of thing.
我们已经读够了这类事情。
But I didn't really say, are you guilty or not?
但我并没有真正说，你有罪还是无罪？
The next days would be spent touring the city and then the country, meeting Noriega's family and other Panamanians-- people that had been appointed to show Sarah around, but also people from all over the countryside, even hours away, who had come just to meet her and bring her gifts.
接下来的几天，我们将游览这座城市，然后是乡村，会见诺列加的家人和其他巴拿马人——他们是被指定带莎拉四处参观的人，但也有来自乡村各地的人，甚至是几个小时之外的人，专门来见她并给她带来礼物。
Sarah and her mom saw the tourists sites, but they also went a little off the beaten path to a poor neighborhood where Noriega grew up and to a village outside of Panama City.
莎拉和她的妈妈参观了旅游景点，但他们也走出了一条不走寻常路的地方，去了诺列加长大的一个贫困社区，以及巴拿马城郊外的一个村庄。
In every place that Sarah went, she was given gifts, and introduced to children her age.
萨拉所到的每个地方都会收到礼物，并被介绍给与她同龄的孩子们。
She traded friendship bracelets-- also a craze among the youth of Panama at that time-- and took in words of Spanish.
她交换友谊手镯——这也是当时巴拿马年轻人的热潮——并吸收了西班牙语词汇。
And she even learned to dance.
她甚至学会了跳舞。
She saw Noriega here and there when he had time, but mostly she was sent off to see as much of the country as she could.
当诺列加有时间的时候，她到处见到他，但大多数时候她都被派去尽可能多地参观这个国家。
And wherever she went, the press followed her.
无论她走到哪里，媒体都跟着她。
While on American news every night, there was talk of Noriega and his oppressive regime, on the Panamanian news, there was a full report of where Sarah had gone, and what she had done that day.
每晚的美国新闻都在谈论诺列加和他的压迫政权，而巴拿马新闻则完整报道了莎拉去了哪里，以及她那天做了什么。
I tried to be really polite, but I definitely tried to give the cold shoulder to people who I felt were being impolite to me.
我试着表现得非常有礼貌，但我确实试图对那些我觉得对我不礼貌的人冷淡对待。
It was hard sometimes just to be in the spotlight all the time, too.
有时，一直处于聚光灯下也很困难。
There was photographers following us around constantly.
一直有摄影师跟着我们。
There's a series of photographs that Sarah's mom showed me that I keep thinking about because, in them, Sarah seems so small and literally tossed around in a very strange setting.
莎拉的妈妈给我看了一系列照片，我一直在想这些照片，因为在这些照片中，莎拉看起来是如此渺小，而且在一个非常奇怪的环境中被抛来抛去。
They were taken at Noriega's beach house.
它们是在诺列加的海滨别墅拍摄的。
Sarah's mom is inside with the adults.
莎拉的妈妈和大人一起在里面。
Sarah is swimming with Noriega's young daughter and her friend.
莎拉正在与诺列加的小女儿和她的朋友一起游泳。
But the water's pretty rough.
但水实在是太浑浊了。
There are big waves.
有大浪。
And then here, she got knocked down.
然后在这里，她被击倒了。
And once you're down in that kind of water, it's hard to get your bearings and get back up again before another wave hits you.
一旦你掉进这样的水中，你就很难在另一波浪潮袭击你之前找到方向并重新站起来。
And she was kind of getting flipped around by this wave.
而她也被这股浪潮掀翻了。
She's got one leg up in the air, and she looks like she's punching herself in the face there.
她的一条腿举在空中，看上去就像是在打自己的脸。
It looks like just a lot of water flying around.
看起来就像有很多水在四处飞舞。
The next photo shows a wave crashing down on Sarah's head and, at the edge of the frame, the arm and leg of someone on shore running to help her.
下一张照片显示，海浪拍打着莎拉的头，在画面边缘，岸上有人跑来帮助她，他的胳膊和腿。
In the last picture, General Noriega is wrapping a towel around Sarah, his shirt soaked with water, a worried look on his face, ushering her towards drier ground.
在最后一张照片中，诺列加将军用毛巾裹住莎拉，他的衬衫被水浸湿，脸上挂着担忧的表情，引导她走向干燥的地面。
He doesn't look like a ruthless dictator or a drug kingpin.
他看起来不像一个无情的独裁者或毒枭。
He just looks like someone's dad.
他只是看起来像某人的父亲。
It was almost as much of a shock as going there.
这几乎和去那里一样令人震惊。
When I came home, it was freezing, and of course I had felt like, oh, I've accustomed to this tropical climate now.
当我回到家时，天气很冷，当然我感觉，哦，我现在已经习惯了这种热带气候。
[CHUCKLES] And there was kids from my class waiting for me at the airport.
[笑]我班的孩子们在机场等我。
I felt like a total celebrity.
我感觉自己像个名人。
Sarah York finished up the research for her two-page report on Panama this week.
莎拉·约克本周完成了她关于巴拿马的两页报告的研究。
That followed a nearly week-long visit to the Central American country as a guest of General Manuel Noriega.
此前，作为曼努埃尔·诺列加将军的客人，对这个中美洲国家进行了近一周的访问。
If grades were given by the enthusiasm of teachers, school officials, and nearly 450 students, then Sarah could easily get an A-triple-plus.
如果成绩是由老师、学校官员和近 450 名学生的热情给出的，那么莎拉可以轻松获得 A-三倍以上。
She created a bond of friendship between the people of Panama and the students of this school district.
她在巴拿马人民和该学区的学生之间建立了友谊的纽带。
The school board has proclaimed tomorrow, October 14, as Sarah York Day in the Negaunee Public Schools.
学校董事会宣布明天 10 月 14 日为 Negaunee 公立学校的莎拉约克日。
Right away when I got back, we started putting together a slideshow of pictures that we had taken.
当我回来后，我们立即开始将我们拍摄的照片放在一起幻灯片放映。
And I went to a lot of classes in different schools, and I went and talked to the ladies' club at some church.
我去了不同学校的很多课程，还去一些教堂的女士俱乐部交谈。
[CHUCKLES] I felt pretty important.
[笑]我觉得自己很重要。
But it wasn't long before we started hearing more negative stuff, too.
但不久之后我们也开始听到更多负面消息。
Coming up, the negative stuff arrives, permanently and irrevocably, as negative stuff can do sometimes.
接下来，负面的东西就会永久地、不可逆转地到来，就像负面的东西有时会造成的那样。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
As you may have heard, Manuel Noriega died last week at 83.
您可能听说过，曼努埃尔·诺列加 (Manuel Noriega) 上周去世，享年 83 岁。
And when we heard the news around here at our program, it made a bunch of us remember this old show that we did back in 2003.
当我们在节目中听到这个消息时，我们中的很多人都想起了我们 2003 年制作的这部老节目。
Andrea Morningstar's story about Sarah York from the town of Negaunee, Michigan, who, at the age of 10, befriended and then visited this man who was considered an enemy of the United States.
安德里亚·晨星 (Andrea Morningstar) 讲述了来自密歇根州尼高尼 (Negaunee) 镇的莎拉·约克 (Sarah York) 的故事，莎拉·约克 (Sarah York) 在 10 岁时与这个被视为美国敌人的人成为了朋友，然后拜访了他。
At this point in our story, Sarah has just returned from her trip, and the American public, the American government, and American media are not too pleased with her.
在我们的故事中，莎拉刚刚旅行归来，美国公众、美国政府和美国媒体对她不太满意。
I guess it was pretty controversial that I accepted the invitation.
我想我接受邀请是相当有争议的。
And a lot of people said, you know, it was fine that she was writing to him, but why would she have to accept this invitation?
很多人说，你知道，她写信给他很好，但为什么她必须接受这个邀请呢？
Or, I wouldn't let my daughter go.
或者说，我不会放过我的女儿。
I think they thought that my family was foolish for having this friendship, and that we were just getting ourselves into a bad situation.
我想他们认为我的家人有这种友谊是愚蠢的，我们只是让自己陷入了困境。
I think they just felt like it was unpatriotic.
我认为他们只是觉得这不爱国。
There was a lot of nastiness out there.
那里有很多肮脏的事情。
They got phone calls and letters from strangers.
他们接到陌生人的电话和信件。
There were articles in newspapers all over the country and all over the world.
全国乃至世界各地的报纸上都有文章。
Everyone had an opinion.
每个人都有意见。
The Guardian in London ridiculed Sarah and called her "the bespectacled infant" and "the white-socked, short-frocked Pollyanna."
伦敦的《卫报》嘲笑莎拉，称她为“戴眼镜的婴儿”和“穿白袜子、短裙的波莉安娜”。
This is interesting.
这很有趣。
I wonder if you could read this.
我想知道你是否能读到这篇文章。
Yeah.
是的。
OK.
好的。
What's this one here?
这里这个是什么？
Oh.
哦。
Every Sunday in our local newspaper, they have what they call Voices of Superiorland.
我们当地的报纸每周日都会刊登所谓的“苏必利尔之声”。
Someone goes out into the community and asks a key question of what's happening currently in the world.
有人走进社区，询问当前世界上正在发生的事情的关键问题。
In this particular Voices of Superiorland, it says, "do you think Sarah York should have gone to Panama to visit with General Noriega?"
在这个特别的《苏必利尔之声》中，它说：“你认为莎拉·约克应该去巴拿马拜访诺列加将军吗？”
This guy says-- he's from the Air Force.
这家伙说——他来自空军。
There used to be an Air Force base here.
这里曾经有一个空军基地。
And he says, "I think it's a risky move." And then there was another woman.
他说：“我认为这是一个冒险的举动。”然后还有另一个女人。
She was from Negaunee.
她来自尼高尼。
"I'm suspicious of Noriega's motives to invite her there." Here's another one.
“我怀疑诺列加邀请她去那里的动机。”这是另一张。
"No, it's just too much military activity." Another one here.
“不，只是军事活动太多了。”这里还有另一张。
"No, I think it's too dangerous for her.
“不，我认为这对她来说太危险了。
It's a scary part of the world." "No, it's obvious that she's being used." And another one.
这是世界上一个可怕的地方。” “不，很明显她被利用了。”还有另一个。
"No, Noriega still is under drug investigation."
“不，诺列加仍在接受毒品调查。”
And then here's one other guy.
然后这是另外一个人。
This guy says, "Sure, why not?
这家伙说：“当然，为什么不呢？
It's a free country.
这是一个自由的国家。
She should be able to go there if she wants." So two out of the 10 said yeah, this is all right, and the rest of them were like, no, no, no.
如果她愿意的话，应该可以去那里。”所以十个人中有两个人说是的，没关系，其余的人则说，不，不，不。
Sarah's friendship with a man who has been described as a drug runner and is under indictment here in the United States has drawn some criticism, including that of Northern Michigan's congressman.
莎拉与一名被描述为毒贩并在美国受到起诉的男子的友谊引起了一些批评，其中包括北密歇根州国会议员的批评。
I think what happens is it kind of gives Noriega the opportunity to be able to take advantage of that situation and use it as a propaganda tool.
我认为发生的事情让诺列加有机会利用这种情况并将其用作宣传工具。
But Sarah's father says if she has been used at all, it has not been for propaganda purposes.
但莎拉的父亲表示，即使她被利用过，也不是为了宣传目的。
What would you call it?
你会怎么称呼它？
Mitchell York A symbol.
米切尔·约克 一个符号。
She's been used as a symbol of friendship between the two countries.
她被用作两国友谊的象征。
I remember being in middle school and getting a phone call from a radio station.
我记得在中学时接到广播电台打来的电话。
I think it was set up beforehand that I was going to do this interview, like a live radio show.
我认为这次采访是事先安排好的，就像现场广播节目一样。
And I took the call in the principal's office.
我在校长办公室接了电话。
And they left me alone in his office so I could use the phone and have some privacy.
他们把我单独留在他的办公室，这样我就可以使用电话并拥有一些隐私。
I think usually when I'd talk on the phone to a reporter, my mom or dad would be maybe just in the other room or listening, just to make sure things were going good and everything, but I was totally on my own this time.
我想通常当我通过电话与记者交谈时，我的妈妈或爸爸可能会在另一个房间或听着，只是为了确保一切顺利，但这次我完全独自一人。
It started out like a normal interview, and then the guy got totally nasty and started saying all this stuff that brought me to tears, and I was just crying and I couldn't respond.
一开始就像一次正常的采访，然后那个人变得非常讨厌，开始说所有这些让我流泪的话，我只是哭了，我无法回应。
He was saying things like, "Do you know that Noriega rapes girls your age?" and things like that.
他说的是这样的话：“你知道诺列加强奸你这个年纪的女孩吗？”诸如此类的事情。
And I was just like-- I couldn't believe that he would have the gall to say that to like an 11- or 12-year-old girl, and that his listeners would think that was OK.
我当时就想——我不敢相信他居然敢对一个 11 或 12 岁的女孩说这样的话，而且他的听众会认为这没什么问题。
I really wish I would have been able to tell him off on the air.
我真的希望我能够在广播中责备他。
It was a live show.
这是一场现场表演。
If he was doing that to me, I really wish I could have come back with something, or just hung up on him.
如果他对我这样做，我真的希望我能带点东西回来，或者直接挂断他的电话。
And instead, I was too polite.
相反，我太有礼貌了。
I didn't even hang up.
我什至没有挂断电话。
I stayed on the stupid line and I was crying on the radio.
我呆在愚蠢的电话线上，在收音机里哭泣。
Among the things that Sarah was given was a letter from Noriega that he had written while she was visiting and intended for her to read when she got back home.
莎拉收到的东西中有一封诺列加的信，是诺列加在她来访时写的，打算让她回家后阅读。
In the letter, he gives her a kind of kid-sized diplomatic mission.
在信中，他给了她一个小孩子大小的外交使命。
"Dear Sarah, when I invited you to visit my country, Panama, I did it only for the intelligence and curiosity that you had about Panama, never with the intention of political or propaganda overtones.
“亲爱的莎拉，当我邀请你访问我的国家巴拿马时，我这样做只是为了了解你对巴拿马的智慧和好奇心，从来没有政治或宣传的意图。
The United States and Panama have had common interests since 1903, and never in our territory has there existed any hate or aggression toward the North American people.
美国和巴拿马自1903年以来就拥有共同利益，在我们的领土上从未存在过针对北美人民的仇恨或侵略。
The American people have an interest in knowing our children and our ethnic groups.
美国人民有兴趣了解我们的孩子和我们的族裔群体。
I was interested that you should see our poor and not just the pretty, coquettish things.
我感兴趣的是你应该看到我们的穷人，而不仅仅是漂亮、风骚的东西。
I was also interested that you should be free to move around, question, and walk our streets.
我还感兴趣的是，你应该可以自由地在我们的街道上走动、提问和行走。
I was interested that you should see our children and play with them, and see that they have need of help and protection of the government and its leaders.
我很感兴趣的是，你应该看看我们的孩子，和他们一起玩，看看他们需要政府及其领导人的帮助和保护。
The government and leaders of Panama have not yet done everything in order that there would be fewer hungry children, without schools, shelter, and food, but I continue fighting for the children that are the future of all the countries of the world.
巴拿马政府和领导人尚未采取一切措施来减少饥饿、没有学校、住所和食物的儿童，但我将继续为儿童而战，他们是世界各国的未来。
Your visit to Panama demonstrates that the children and peoples separate from the government and their advisers speak the same language, which is that of love, friendship, and peace.
你对巴拿马的访问表明，脱离政府及其顾问的儿童和人民讲着同一种语言，那就是爱、友谊与和平。
I ask that, when you return to Negaunee, that you say that you met men, women, children, old people, government officials, and soldiers who want to live in peace.
我请求你回到尼高尼时，说你遇到了想要和平生活的男人、女人、儿童、老人、政府官员和士兵。
That they don't want war.
他们不想要战争。
God protect you.
上帝保护你。
And from today on, I solemnly invite you so that, in the year 1999, at 12:00 noon, December 31, you will be at the bridge of the Americas to cut the ribbon of Panama."
从今天起，我郑重邀请您在1999年12月31日中午12点，来到美洲大桥上为巴拿马剪彩。”
This is huge.
这是巨大的。
The ceremony he's talking about is the day when the canal would finally be handed over to the Panamanians.
他所说的仪式是运河最终移交给巴拿马人的那一天。
"May you have a good trip.
“祝您旅途愉快。
I send greetings to your father, Mitchell; to your brother, Carl; to your brother, Caleb; to your neighbors; to your teachers; to your friends; and to the man who runs the only gas station in town, Francis.
我向你的父亲米切尔致以问候；致你的兄弟卡尔；给你的兄弟迦勒；给你的邻居；给你的老师；给你的朋友；还有经营镇上唯一加油站的弗朗西斯。
Greetings to the principal, Mr. Robert Trevilcock.
您好，校长 Robert Trevilcock 先生。
The next time, you will also be invited to Panama.
下次，您还将受邀前往巴拿马。
Sarah, I have come to know much about your people and friends.
莎拉，我对你的人和朋友有了很多了解。
Therefore, I congratulate you for being so brave in talking with such emotion about them.
因此，我祝贺你如此勇敢地带着如此情感谈论他们。
Sarah, I'm not going to say goodbye, just see you later.
莎拉，我不会说再见，待会儿见。
Peace is from God, and therefore, it is welcome to whichever part of the world that will have it.
和平来自上帝，因此，世界上任何一个愿意拥有和平的地方都会受到欢迎。
Today, October 10, happy birthday, and on the 14th, when you celebrate it in Michigan.
今天，10 月 10 日，生日快乐，14 日，您将在密歇根庆祝生日。
Your friend, General Manuel Antonio Noriega.
你的朋友，曼努埃尔·安东尼奥·诺列加将军。
P.S.
附：
My wife, Felicidad, joins me with my words and wishes to give you a mother's kiss that would tie you to the tears, laughter, struggle, and work for the children of Panama."
我的妻子费利西达 (Felicidad) 和我一起分享我的话语，并希望给你一个母亲的吻，让你与为巴拿马儿童的泪水、欢笑、奋斗和工作联系在一起。”
Wow.
哇。
He was a much better letter-writer than me.
他写信比我好得多。
I think this is a great letter.
我认为这是一封很棒的信。
[CHUCKLES] Yeah.
[轻笑]是的。
And I really took that to heart when I got it, too.
当我得到它时，我也真的把它记在心里。
Once I went, I couldn't really back down anymore.
一旦去了，我就真的不能再退缩了。
I think that Noriega and the people in Panama felt like, OK, now you've come here.
我认为诺列加和巴拿马人民的感觉是，好吧，现在你已经来到这里了。
We brought you here.
我们把你带到了这里。
You just took on a job.
你刚刚接受了一份工作。
You have to be our spokesperson, and you have to learn as much as you can about this and kind of educate Americans, because our country's at stake.
你必须成为我们的发言人，你必须尽可能多地了解这一点并教育美国人，因为我们的国家处于危险之中。
So I guess, in a way, after I got back, it was like I had a job.
所以我想，在某种程度上，我回来后，就好像我有了一份工作。
And that sounds kind of naive and simple-minded, maybe, now, but I just met a whole bunch of people in this country and I didn't want to see our country attack them.
也许现在这听起来有点天真和简单，但我刚刚在这个国家遇到了很多人，我不想看到我们的国家攻击他们。
I didn't want to see us go in and kill or whatever this new friend I had, either.
我也不想看到我们进去杀掉我的这个新朋友。
To me, he just seemed like a reasonable guy.
对我来说，他只是一个讲道理的人。
In retrospect, I look at the newspaper articles and the quotes, and people were just interested in what a demon Noriega was, and how could I be friends with him?
回想起来，我看看报纸上的文章和引述，人们只是好奇诺列加是个恶魔，我怎么能和他成为朋友呢？
And I would defend him, and it sounds really naive now when I read these articles.
我会为他辩护，现在当我读到这些文章时，这听起来真的很天真。
"Oh, he's a really nice guy." [CHUCKLES] I'd say things like that.
“哦，他真是个好人。” [笑]我会这么说。
But people would just take my story or my words and twist them around, turn it into something sensationalist.
但人们只会把我的故事或我的话扭曲起来，把它变成耸人听闻的东西。
I wish I could have been more articulate then, because I think my message came across as really unrealistic and brainwashed.
我希望当时我能表达得更清楚，因为我认为我的信息给人的印象是非常不现实和被洗脑的。
I feel like there must have been a way for me to get my message out without sounding so stupid, but what do you expect from an 11-year-old?
我觉得一定有一种方法可以让我传达自己的信息，而又不会听起来那么愚蠢，但是你对一个 11 岁的孩子有什么期望呢？
[CHUCKLES] I don't know if there's any way I could have done a better job.
[笑]我不知道是否有什么办法可以做得更好。
The closer the US came to an invasion, the clearer it became that Sarah and her family couldn't do anything to stop it.
美国越接近入侵，莎拉和她的家人就越清楚地无法采取任何措施来阻止它。
It was December 20, 1989, late at night, when the first US troops were parachuted into combat, and took over the Torrijos International Airport.
1989年12月20日深夜，第一批美军空降投入战斗，并占领了托里霍斯国际机场。
The Yorks were in bed when they started getting calls.
当约克夫妇开始接到电话时，他们正在床上。
Pauline's brother called first to tell her the news, and then reporters started calling.
宝琳的哥哥先打电话告诉她这个消息，然后记者也开始打电话。
A friend at a local news station helped them issue a message to the media to leave them alone.
当地新闻台的一位朋友帮助他们向媒体发出了一条信息，不要打扰他们。
They watched live news feeds from a neighbor's house who had a satellite dish.
他们观看了邻居家有卫星天线的现场新闻直播。
Around 4:00 AM, they went home to try and get some sleep.
凌晨 4:00 左右，他们回家尝试睡觉。
It was the first full day of the invasion.
这是入侵的第一天。
In the early hours of the morning, they got a call from Thais, one of Noriega's secretaries that they had become close to while they were there.
凌晨时分，他们接到了泰斯的电话，泰斯是诺列加的秘书之一，他们在那里时与诺列加的关系很亲密。
She called me and she says, "Pauline!" She says, "you have to do something." She said, "we've got people that are shot and they need to get to the hospital, and they won't let us through the streets.
她打电话给我，她说：“宝琳！”她说：“你必须做点什么。”她说：“我们有人中枪，他们需要去医院，但他们不让我们穿过街道。
They won't let the ambulances go through the streets." And I'm helpless.
他们不会让救护车穿过街道。”而我却很无助。
What could I do for her?
我能为她做什么？
But she was in a desperate situation.
但她却陷入了绝境。
I don't think she knew who else to call in the United States that was their friend.
我想她不知道在美国还能给谁打电话，那就是他们的朋友。
I mean, who was she going to call, the president?
我的意思是，她要给谁打电话，总统？
Is she going to call a congressman?
她会打电话给国会议员吗？
She didn't have those kind of connections.
她没有那种关系。
I just felt so helpless.
我只是感到很无助。
They watched in horror as the US continued to invade Panama.
他们惊恐地看着美国继续入侵巴拿马。
Buildings were being bombed that Sarah and her mother recognized and had even been to.
莎拉和她母亲认出甚至去过的建筑物遭到轰炸。
The neighborhood where Noriega grew up was bombed, too, and Sarah wondered about the safety of the kids she had met there.
诺列加长大的社区也遭到了轰炸，莎拉想知道她在那里遇到的孩子们的安全。
Conservative estimates say around 200 Panamanian civilians died in the invasion with thousands wounded.
保守估计，大约 200 名巴拿马平民在这次入侵中丧生，数千人受伤。
26 Americans died.
26名美国人死亡。
A US Psychological Operations battalion surrounded the Vatican embassy, where Noriega was taking refuge, and blared rock music all day and night.
美国心理战营包围了诺列加避难的梵蒂冈大使馆，并昼夜播放摇滚乐。
Finally, after days of this, Noriega surrendered and was taken to a federal prison in Miami, and convicted of drug trafficking and money laundering.
最终，几天后，诺列加自首并被带到迈阿密的联邦监狱，并被判犯有贩毒和洗钱罪。
Although it was one of the most expensive drug cases ever prosecuted, and although the US searched for proof of Noriega's wrongdoing after they invaded, they found very little and had a hard time proving their case.
尽管这是有史以来起诉的最昂贵的毒品案件之一，尽管美国在入侵后寻找诺列加不当行为的证据，但他们发现的很少，而且很难证明他们的案件。
The US ended up relying on circumstantial evidence and testimony from convicted drug traffickers.
美国最终依赖于间接证据和被定罪毒贩的证词。
Afterwards, Noriega's lawyer, Frank Rubino, said he was alarmed at the way the first Bush administration invaded Panama and went after Noriega.
随后，诺列加的律师弗兰克·鲁比诺表示，他对第一届布什政府入侵巴拿马并追捕诺列加的方式感到震惊。
He declared, quote, "The United States will not trample across the entire world, imposing its will upon so-called independent, sovereign nations.
他宣称，“美国不会践踏整个世界，将自己的意志强加于所谓的独立主权国家。
Unless leaders of foreign governments are willing to kneel once a day and face Washington and give grace to George Bush, they, too, may be in the same posture as General Noriega."
除非外国政府领导人愿意每天下跪一次，面向华盛顿向乔治·布什示好，否则他们也可能会采取与诺列加将军相同的姿态。”
During this time, Sarah continued her correspondence with him.
在此期间，莎拉继续与他通信。
She even visited him and his family during his trial in Florida.
她甚至在佛罗里达州受审期间拜访了他和他的家人。
But it became more and more difficult to sit down and write the letters.
但坐下来写信变得越来越困难。
She was a teenager, getting into teenager things, and she had never had a friend in prison before.
她才十几岁，就开始接触青少年的事情，而且以前在监狱里她从未有过朋友。
She became less interested in the correspondence, and her folks kind of took over, sometimes dictating what it was she said in the letters.
她对信件不再感兴趣，她的家人接手了，有时会听写她在信中说的话。
I think it got just too confusing for me, and I think it was just easier for me to kind of ignore a lot of what was going on.
我认为这对我来说太令人困惑了，而且我认为对我来说更容易忽略正在发生的很多事情。
I don't know.
我不知道。
You don't know what to say.
你不知道该说什么。
It's like, can you imagine a young teenager writing to you in prison?
就像，你能想象一个青少年在监狱里给你写信吗？
What would they say?
他们会说什么？
Or how would they try to make you-- how would they be able to make you feel better?
或者他们会如何努力让你——他们如何才能让你感觉更好？
So what was your concern?
那么你关心的是什么呢？
You wanted to make him feel better?
你想让他感觉好一点吗？
I guess so.
大概吧。
And just to let him know that we were standing behind him and supporting him, and that we were still friends.
只是为了让他知道我们站在他身后支持他，并且我们仍然是朋友。
But I just didn't really know how to do that.
但我真的不知道该怎么做。
When we talk about the story, Sarah says that she isn't sure how that experience fits in with the rest of her life.
当我们谈论这个故事时，莎拉说她不确定这段经历如何适应她的余生。
The life she's living now seems really far away from that, and she rarely speaks about Noriega anymore.
她现在的生活似乎离那很远，而且她很少再谈论诺列加了。
She and her husband and baby are living completely off the grid in the woods of Northern Wisconsin.
她和她的丈夫和孩子住在威斯康星州北部的树林里，完全脱离了电网。
No electricity or running water.
没有电或自来水。
You take a county road to another county road and then a dirt road with no name, and eventually, you'll find their canvas tent.
你沿着一条县道走到另一条县道，然后走一条没有名字的土路，最终你会找到他们的帆布帐篷。
There's a lot to do here.
这里有很多事情要做。
They make everything they can from scratch.
他们从头开始制造一切。
Haul their own water, clean their own diapers.
自己拉水，自己清洗尿布。
And they're building their own house, which they want to get done before Sarah delivers their second child and the winter sets in.
他们正在建造自己的房子，他们希望在莎拉生下他们的第二个孩子和冬天到来之前完成。
I asked Sarah if she thinks that the whole experience with Noriega has anything to do with her choice to live this way, and she kind of shrugs.
我问莎拉，她是否认为与诺列加的整个经历与她选择这种生活方式有关，她耸了耸肩。
She doesn't make that connection.
她没有建立这种联系。
When Sarah was 11, when she was thrust into the international spotlight and her world got so much bigger, it also spun a little out of control.
当莎拉 11 岁的时候，她被推到了国际聚光灯下，她的世界变得如此广阔，但也有点失控。
Suddenly, she had things she felt she needed to say but didn't know how to, and everything seemed to get twisted around.
突然间，她觉得自己有话要说，但又不知道该怎么说，一切似乎都变得扭曲起来。
Something you can say about her life now is that there's not much chance of that.
关于她现在的生活，你可以说，这种情况的可能性不大。
She's in control of everything, from the food she feeds her family to the electricity she doesn't use.
她掌控着一切，从她为家人提供的食物到她不使用的电力。
She lives as responsibly as she knows how.
她尽其所能地负责任地生活。
There's no room for misinterpretation.
没有任何误解的余地。
Andrea Morningstar.
安德里亚·晨星。
She's a filmmaker currently making a documentary about a school in Detroit.
她是一名电影制片人，目前正在制作一部关于底特律一所学校的纪录片。
Since we first ran this story in 2003, Sarah has moved from her home off the grid to the Twin Cities, where she works as a Spanish teacher and plays in the bands The Wild Goose Chase Cloggers and Hello, Heartache.
自从我们在 2003 年首次报道这个故事以来，莎拉就从远离电网的家搬到了双子城，在那里她担任西班牙语老师，并在 The Wild Goose Chase Cloggers 和 Hello, Heartache 乐队中演奏。
As for General Manuel Noriega, after serving his sentence in the United States, he was extradited to France and then back to Panama in 2011.
至于曼努埃尔·诺列加将军，他在美国服刑后被引渡到法国，然后于2011年返回巴拿马。
He died last week after complications after brain surgery.
他上周因脑部手术后出现并发症而去世。
In March, right before his surgery, Sarah's mom, Pauline, went to visit him.
三月份，就在他接受手术之前，莎拉的妈妈宝琳前去看望了他。
She brought him a letter from Sarah.
她给他带来了莎拉的一封信。
Act Two: Pen Pal Husband Ira Glass Act Two, Pen Pal Husband.
第二幕：笔友丈夫艾拉·格拉斯 第二幕，笔友丈夫。
Janice met and married Nate Powell in 1972.
珍妮丝于 1972 年认识内特·鲍威尔并结婚。
He was a romantic and gentle man, except when he drank.
他是一个浪漫而温柔的男人，除了喝酒的时候。
He was kind of a mean drunk.
他是个有点卑鄙的醉汉。
He'd get angry, full of rage.
他会生气，充满愤怒。
A few years into their marriage, Nate was arrested for robbing a utility company, and he was sent to prison for eight years.
他们结婚几年后，内特因抢劫一家公用事业公司而被捕，并被判入狱八年。
Janice holds dear the memory of those years, including the letters that she got from Nate when he was in prison.
珍妮丝对那些年的记忆记忆犹新，包括内特入狱时她收到的信。
The relationship just enriched so much.
这种关系变得如此丰富。
It just blossomed.
它刚刚开花。
I received a letter every day.
我每天都会收到一封信。
Every day.
每天。
He was a nonstop talker.
他是一个喋喋不休的人。
I called him Mr. Et Cetera because he talked on and on and on and on.
我称他为“Et Cetera 先生”，因为他滔滔不绝地说个不停。
Initially, when he first went to jail, I read all his letters over and over.
最初，当他第一次入狱时，我一遍又一遍地读了他所有的信。
But then they started coming so frequent and every day, and four and five pages and all on legal paper, I just didn't read them over.
但后来他们开始变得如此频繁，每天都有四五页纸，而且都是合法的纸质文件，我只是没有读完。
"If I had money when we met, I would have brought you the best of everything and taken you around the world.
“如果我们见面时我有钱，我就会给你带来最好的一切，带你环游世界。
Even though I was a sinner, I had the desire to give you every pleasure that you had ever dreamed about having." That's-- that's another X-rated bit.
尽管我是一个罪人，但我渴望给你你所梦想拥有的一切快乐。”那是——那又是一个 X 级的片段。
Our phone bill at one point went up to like $800.
我们的电话费一度上涨到 800 美元左右。
We would talk on the phone, because the inmates, they had a certain time that they could call, and they were limited to so many minutes.
我们会通电话，因为囚犯们有一定的时间可以打电话，但时间有限。
But if there was no one else in line to make phone calls, then you could talk as long as you want to.
但如果没有其他人排队打电话，那么你想聊多久就聊多久。
And Nate had such a charm and a charisma about him that sometimes the guards would come and get him.
内特很有魅力，有时警卫会来抓他。
They said, Mr. Powell, there's no one in line to use the phone if you want to call your wife.
他们说，鲍威尔先生，如果你想给你妻子打电话，没有人排队使用电话。
Every now and then, he would have an opportunity to call me at work.
他偶尔会在工作时给我打电话。
"Hey, baby." And I said, oh god, this is great.
“嘿，宝贝。”我说，天哪，这太棒了。
You have made my day.
你让我很开心。
"Thinking of you and the joy I feel in having you as my woman is a delight on a day-to-day basis in itself--"
“想到你，想到你成为我的女人，我感到的快乐本身就是一种每天的快乐——”
I had the craving.
我有渴望。
I had to see him.
我必须见他。
When he was sent to the road camps, I was not supposed to meet him, but this was something that we did.
当他被送往路营时，我本来不应该见到他，但我们却这么做了。
He was able to know where he would be.
他能够知道他会在哪里。
And sometimes, after he would get to that location, because he was outside, there may be a restaurant or a phone there on the corner, and he would have some change or something, and he'd call me.
有时，当他到达那个位置后，因为他在外面，拐角处可能有一家餐馆或电话，他会有一些零钱或其他东西，然后他会给我打电话。
He'd say, baby, I'm down the street from your job.
他会说，宝贝，我就在你工作的那条街上。
Can you run down here for a minute?
你能跑到这里来一会儿吗？
Or, I'm going to be at-- tomorrow.
或者，我将在——明天。
You think you'll be able to come out there?
你认为你能从那里出来吗？
I would always bring whatever I could, and I would leave stuff in the woods.
我总是会带上我能带的东西，并把东西留在树林里。
Whatever it was he wanted me to leave for him-- if it was beer, bring a sandwich, a shirt, or whatever.
不管他要我给他留下什么——如果是啤酒，就带一个三明治、一件衬衫，或者其他什么。
It's over there by that tree.
就在那棵树旁边。
Did you see me when I passed by that tree?
当我经过那棵树时，你看到我了吗？
Well, it's right there.
嗯，它就在那里。
Or either I'd just stand there and talk to him like just somebody walking down the highway.
或者我就站在那里和他说话，就像一个在高速公路上行走的人一样。
I'd talk to him.
我会和他谈谈。
"Hey, baby, you sure do look good, man.
“嘿，宝贝，你看起来确实不错，伙计。
I'm telling you." Things like that, yeah.
我告诉你。”诸如此类的事情，是的。
Whenever he was working with the Bureau of Sanitation, he was the maintenance man.
每当他在环卫局工作时，他都是维修工。
So the crew would go out, but they would leave him at the office.
所以工作人员会出去，但他们会把他留在办公室。
Well, they had a fence.
嗯，他们有栅栏。
It was like 8, 10 feet.
大约有8、10英尺。
I didn't know how to climb a fence.
我不知道如何翻过栅栏。
And he'd talk about, you mean to tell me you don't how to climb a fence?
他会说，你是想告诉我你不知道如何爬栅栏吗？
That don't make sense!
这没有道理！
So he would give me some gloves, and he would show me how to climb a fence.
所以他会给我一些手套，并教我如何爬上栅栏。
And I would have a picnic basket with a blanket in there, and I would have drinks and glasses.
我会有一个野餐篮，里面有毯子，还有饮料和玻璃杯。
And we would go up in the woods and we'd lay down in the woods.
我们会爬到树林里，然后躺在树林里。
It was just like we were at home.
就像我们在家里一样。
I had bought him a cassette player and I brought tapes.
我给他买了一台录音机，还带来了磁带。
And plus, he would make tapes and he would bring them out to the picnic area whenever we would have our lunch, and we would play them.
另外，他会制作磁带，每当我们吃午饭时，他都会把它们带到野餐区，然后我们会播放它们。
Sometimes we would dance.
有时我们会跳舞。
He liked blues.
他喜欢布鲁斯。
And there's a different dance that you do when you're dancing to blues.
当你随着蓝调跳舞时，你会跳一种不同的舞蹈。
It's sort of like a dirty dancing.
这有点像肮脏的舞蹈。
Or we would listen to Nancy Wilson.
或者我们会听南希·威尔逊的讲话。
That's one of those two-step things, and I really liked that, because his arms was always all around me and everything like we were the only ones there.
这是两步走的事情之一，我真的很喜欢这一点，因为他的手臂总是围绕着我，一切就像我们是那里唯一的人一样。
Those eight years that Nate was in prison, those were precious to me.
内特入狱的那八年对我来说非常宝贵。
[LAUGHS] And I have six boxes of letters because he wrote me every day.
[笑]我有六箱信，因为他每天都给我写信。
Every day.
每天。
I mean, big boxes.
我的意思是，大盒子。
In some of the letters, he would tell me-- he'd say, oh, I had a dream about you last night and oh god, it was just great and things like that.
在一些信中，他会告诉我——他会说，哦，我昨晚梦见了你，哦上帝，这真是太棒了，诸如此类的事情。
It was a positiveness that came out of the eight years because my husband had not graduated from high school, so he got his GED.
这是八年来的积极成果，因为我丈夫高中尚未毕业，所以他获得了 GED。
And he's president of Alcohol Anonymous.
他是匿名戒酒协会的主席。
And it enhanced him.
这增强了他的能力。
After the eight years-- this was in the back of my mind.
八年后——这件事一直在我的脑海里。
I said, Nate.
我说，内特。
I said, do you think that you're going to revert back to how you were before you came here.
我说，你觉得你会回到来这里之前的样子吗？
He said, oh no!
他说，哦不！
There's just no way.
就是没有办法。
And when he got out of prison, he started drinking again.
出狱后，他又开始酗酒。
It was just the same Nate.
这就是同一个内特。
When he was drinking, it was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
当他喝酒的时候，就像杰基尔博士和海德先生一样。
He was on that binge.
他当时正在狂欢。
It was like, I hated to come home, because this other person was there.
就像，我讨厌回家，因为另一个人在那里。
He would get violent.
他会变得暴力。
And I'd have to go in my bedroom and board up the door, push the dresser in front of it and anything else, and sit on it.
我必须走进卧室，用木板封上门，将梳妆台和其他任何东西推到门前，然后坐在上面。
If there was a lock on the bedroom door, he took a hammer and he would break it off.
如果卧室门上有锁，他就拿锤子把它撬开。
And he'd come in there and he'd say, you are my wife.
他进来后会说，你是我的妻子。
I've paid for you.
我已经为你付钱了。
And maybe that's why the eight years were probably my most precious years with him.
也许这就是为什么这八年可能是我和他在一起最珍贵的时光。
Because I didn't have to hear the arguments in the evening if he was drinking.
因为如果他喝酒了，我就不必在晚上听到争吵。
But if he wasn't drinking, he was just a perfect guy.
但如果他不喝酒，他就是一个完美的人。
He was just perfect.
他简直太完美了。
Our relationship blossomed while he was in prison.
当他入狱时，我们的关系蓬勃发展。
While he was in prison.
当他在监狱里的时候。
Janice Powell.
贾妮丝·鲍威尔。
A version of this story was originally produced for the Chicago Public Radio series Speaking of Sex.
这个故事的一个版本最初是为芝加哥公共广播电台系列《谈论性》制作的。
The story was co-produced by Alex Kotlowitz and Amy Drozdowska.
这个故事由亚历克斯·科特洛维茨和艾米·德罗兹多斯卡联合制作。
Amy did the editing.
艾米负责编辑。
Thanks, Julia MacAvoy.
谢谢，朱莉娅·麦卡沃伊。
Well, this episode of our program was produced by Diane Cook and me, with Alex Blumberg, Wendy Dorr, and Starlee Kine.
嗯，我们节目的这一集是由黛安·库克和我、亚历克斯·布隆伯格、温迪·多尔和斯塔莉·凯恩共同制作的。
Senior producer for this episode with Julie Snyder.
本集与朱莉·斯奈德的高级制片人。
Music help for this show from consigliere Sarah Vowell.
顾问莎拉·沃威尔为本次演出提供音乐帮助。
Matt Tierney's our technical director.
马特·蒂尔尼是我们的技术总监。
Production help from Diane Wu.
Diane Wu 提供制作帮助。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
Sure, when people meet him, they do walk away with some regrets.
当然，当人们见到他时，他们确实会带着一些遗憾离开。
I don't think we ever asked him any questions about drugs and drug trafficking.
我想我们从来没有问过他任何有关毒品和贩毒的问题。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。