236: My Two Cents - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #236 | April 9, 2004 236: My Two Cents Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 236 集 | 2004 年 4 月 9 日 236：我的两分钱 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass If you think your life is confusing, consider for a moment what happened to Congressman Ernest Istook last year.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 如果您认为自己的生活令人困惑，请考虑一下去年国会议员欧内斯特·伊斯托克 (Ernest Istook) 身上发生的事情。
He's a Republican from Oklahoma.
他是来自俄克拉荷马州的共和党人。
He believes that the Federal budget needs to be balanced.
他认为联邦预算需要平衡。
He believes it so fiercely that last year he formally proposed an amendment to the Constitution that would require a balanced Federal budget.
他对此坚信不疑，以至于去年他正式提出了一项宪法修正案，要求平衡联邦预算。
And then, just a few weeks later, he voted, along with the majority of the House of Representatives, for a Federal budget that would create the largest deficit in American history: $347 billion.
然后，仅仅几周后，他与众议院多数议员一起投票通过了一项联邦预算，该预算将创造美国历史上最大的赤字：3,470 亿美元。
Even without the money that we were spending on the war in Iraq, it would have been the largest in history.
即使没有我们在伊拉克战争上投入的资金，这也将是历史上规模最大的战争。
I talked to him about it at the time.
我当时就和他谈过这件事。
Certainly a majority of the American people and a majority of the people in Congress, on principle, say that they support a balanced budget amendment.
当然，大多数美国人民和国会中的大多数人民原则上都表示支持平衡预算修正案。
That's great.
那太棒了。
But it's just like the Scarlet O'Hara syndrome, I'll worry about that tomorrow.
但这就像猩红奥哈拉综合症一样，我明天会担心的。
Well, tomorrow never comes.
好吧，明天永远不会到来。
Right.
正确的。
But if you and so many other people in Congress believe that we should not have a deficit, why not just vote against this budget with this deficit?
但如果你和国会中的许多其他人都认为我们不应该有赤字，为什么不直接投票反对这个有赤字的预算呢？
Yeah.
是的。
I voted for the budget not because I support the level of spending in the budget, but because I understand in the process that we go through in Washington DC, if we did not adopt this budget resolution, we would end up with higher spending levels.
我对预算案投了赞成票，不是因为我支持预算案中的支出水平，而是因为我明白，在我们华盛顿特区经历的过程中，如果我们不通过这项预算决议，我们最终会得到更高的支出水平。
Those are the political dynamics that are afoot.
这些都是正在发生的政治动态。
And this doesn't really seem like an answer to the question.
这似乎并不是问题的答案。
It is all that he would say.
这就是他要说的一切。
We went around and around on it, me asking why not just vote for less money, him saying this was the lowest amount Congress could agree on.
我们反复讨论这个问题，我问为什么不投票减少拨款，他说这是国会可以同意的最低金额。
For our program this week, all of us who work on the radio show wanted to do a program that would give a sense of what the hell is going on in the economy, because everything that we read about it or hear about it seems so contradictory.
对于我们本周的节目，我们所有在广播节目中工作的人都希望制作一个节目，让人们了解经济到底发生了什么，因为我们读到或听到的一切似乎都是如此矛盾。
You've got deficit hawks, like Congressman Istook, supporting a tax cut from President Bush that could boost the deficit by a third.
赤字鹰派人士，例如国会议员伊斯托克，支持布什总统的减税政策，这可能会使赤字增加三分之一。
You've got the economy growing steadily for over two years now.
经济已经稳定增长两年多了。
In fact, last summer, it was growing really fast, 8.2% growth, which should have created jobs, but somehow it didn't and nobody exactly understands why.
事实上，去年夏天，它的增长速度非常快，增长了 8.2%，这本应该创造就业机会，但不知何故却没有，而且没有人确切理解为什么。
Then, two months ago, the economy finally started creating jobs.
然后，两个月前，经济终于开始创造就业机会。
And again, nobody really understands why it happened then.
再说一次，没有人真正理解为什么会发生这种事。
And then there's this.
然后就是这个。
At the same time the job picture's been so bleak over the last few years because of low interest rates and cheap mortgages, lots of middle-class people had money in their pockets.
与此同时，由于低利率和廉价抵押贷款，过去几年的就业形势如此黯淡，许多中产阶级口袋里都有钱。
And so, even during the recession, people bought homes and cars in record numbers which is not what a recession used to mean.
因此，即使在经济衰退期间，人们购买房屋和汽车的数量也创下了纪录，这并不是经济衰退过去的含义。
Welcome to WBEZ Chicago.
欢迎来到 WBEZ 芝加哥。
It's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
《这就是美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our radio program, a show that we call My Two Cents in which we try to get a grip on what is happening in this weird, contradictory economy with stories from three different people in three different places in the economy.
今天在我们的广播节目中，我们称之为“我的两分钱”，我们试图通过经济中三个不同地方的三个不同人的故事来了解这个奇怪、矛盾的经济中正在发生的事情。
Act One of our show, Dave Knows, the story of a man who might have a better grip on what is going on in the economy of middle-class America, what is going on in your personal finances, than all of the experts you ever read about in the paper or see on TV.
我们节目的第一幕《戴夫知道》讲述了一个男人的故事，他可能比你在报纸上读到或在电视上看到的所有专家更了解美国中产阶级的经济状况，以及你的个人财务状况。
And chances are, you have never heard his name.
很有可能，你从未听说过他的名字。
Act Two, Stock Making Sense, in that act somebody who lost money in the stock market during the collapse of the internet economy heads off on a quest.
第二幕，股票变得有意义，在该幕中，在互联网经济崩溃期间在股票市场亏损的人开始了一场探索。
Perhaps an even more futile quest than his original stock purchase.
也许这比他最初购买股票更徒劳。
And he puts together a report, a stockumentary if you will.
他整理了一份报告，如果你愿意的话，可以是一份库存记录。
Act Three, A View From The Mop.
第三幕，拖把上的景色。
A janitor has written a book about what it is like to work for over a decade for under $6 an hour at the same job.
一位看门人写了一本书，讲述了在同一份工作上工作十多年的感受，每小时工资不到 6 美元。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One: Dave Knows.
第一幕：戴夫知道。
We wanted to begin today with this story about what is happening with middle-class Americans and their place in the economy.
我们今天想从这个关于美国中产阶级正在发生的事情及其在经济中的地位的故事开始。
There are lots of different ways that you can measure how they're doing.
您可以通过多种不同的方法来衡量他们的表现。
You could examine unemployment statistics or consumer spending.
您可以检查失业统计数据或消费者支出。
You could take a poll.
你可以进行民意调查。
Or you could have a, more or less, random group of adults with all sorts of jobs call into a radio show to talk about their money situation.
或者你可以让一群或多或少随机的从事各种工作的成年人打电话到广播节目来谈论他们的金钱状况。
It turns out that somebody already does this, and he does it really, really well.
事实证明，已经有人这样做了，而且做得非常非常好。
His name is Dave Ramsey.
他的名字叫戴夫·拉姆齐。
His show is on over 160 stations, mostly in the south and west.
他的节目在 160 多个电视台播出，大部分在南部和西部。
The show comes out of Nashville.
该节目来自纳什维尔。
From Tennessee, Susan Drury put together this report.
来自田纳西州的苏珊·德鲁里 (Susan Drury) 整理了这份报告。
To me, a daily show about personal finance is, by definition, boring.
对我来说，关于个人理财的每日节目本质上是无聊的。
And this program is not boring, it pulls you in.
而且这个节目并不无聊，它会吸引你。
Here's Lynne, a typical caller.
这是 Lynne，一位典型的来电者。
She and her husband sold their carpet store business and they don't agree on how to handle the money from the sale.
她和她的丈夫卖掉了地毯店业务，但他们对于如何处理出售所得的资金意见不一。
He is disabled, and he kind of likes to gamble a little bit.
他是个残疾人，而且有点喜欢赌博。
And he says it's all his to do what he wants to.
他说他想做的事都是他的。
I said, no, I'm not working.
我说，不，我不工作。
We need to take it and budget it out for us to live on because we have two little children.
我们需要把它拿出来并为我们的生活做好预算，因为我们有两个小孩。
What should I do?
我应该怎么办？
Let's just stop this right here.
让我们就在这里停止吧。
On any other financial show you wouldn't even hear this question because it's not about money.
在任何其他财经节目中，你甚至不会听到这个问题，因为这与金钱无关。
Her real problem is her husband.
她真正的问题是她的丈夫。
Let's hear some more.
让我们再听听一些。
When you got married, the preacher said, and now you are one.
当你结婚时，传教士说，现在你就是其中之一了。
It's our money.
这是我们的钱。
It's our kids.
这是我们的孩子。
It's our stuff.
这是我们的东西。
It's our bills.
这是我们的账单。
It's our stuff.
这是我们的东西。
We work together, so no, it's not his, it's ours.
我们一起工作，所以不，这不是他的，这是我们的。
And if he's a real man, what he'll do is sit down and the two of you, together, decide what this is going to be used for, for the good of the family.
如果他是一个真正的男人，他会做的就是坐下来，你们两个一起决定这将用于什么，为了家庭的利益。
And this seems like just answer she wants to hear.
这似乎正是她想听到的答案。
But then the conversation takes a turn as it often does on this show.
但随后谈话发生了转变，就像这个节目中经常发生的那样。
Dave knows that the money is never just about the money.
戴夫知道钱不仅仅是钱的问题。
So why is the husband holding on to the money?
那么，丈夫为什么要抓着钱呢？
Well, that can't just be about the money either.
嗯，这也不仅仅是钱的问题。
Dave runs another theory by her.
戴夫提出了她的另一个理论。
Maybe she's part of the problem.
也许她是问题的一部分。
You may be kind of a tightwad and you've got the thing turned down too tight.
你可能是个吝啬鬼，把事情拒绝得太紧了。
That's definitely.
那是肯定的。
Dave Ramsey And his reaction to that is rebellion.
戴夫·拉姆齐（Dave Ramsey）对此的反应是叛逆。
You need to loosen up a little and he needs to come to the table and be a grown-up.
你需要放松一点，他需要回到谈判桌前，成为一个成年人。
Is there disability income coming in?
有残疾收入吗？
Yes.
是的。
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
Now there is.
现在有了。
Dave Ramsey OK.
戴夫·拉姆齐 好的。
Are we sharing that?
我们分享这个吗？
Well, it comes to me, and so I just budget it for each week.
好吧，我想到了，所以我只是每周做预算。
OK.
好的。
What you need to do, though, is it doesn't need to be I budget anymore.
不过，你需要做的是，我不再需要做预算了。
It needs to be we're budgeting because part of the rebellion from him is coming from the fact he doesn't feel like he's getting control.
我们需要制定预算，因为他的反抗部分来自于他觉得自己没有控制权。
The only control he has is over that carpet store money, and he's grasping at trying to have some sense of dignity and control.
他唯一能控制的就是地毯店的钱，他正努力争取一些尊严和控制感。
I understand.
我明白。
Susan Drury This call takes just 10 minutes out of the three-hour Dave Ramsey Show.
苏珊·德鲁里 (Susan Drury) 这次通话仅占三小时戴夫·拉姆齐秀 (Dave Ramsey Show) 中的 10 分钟。
It's on Monday through Friday.
时间是周一到周五。
It has 1.8 million listeners each week.
每周有 180 万听众。
He gets a lot of calls you'd expect to hear on a personal finance show: questions about 401-Ks, bankruptcies and mortgage rates.
他接到了很多你会在个人理财节目中听到的电话：有关 401-K、破产和抵押贷款利率的问题。
But then there is the classic call, the one he gets all the time.
但还有一个经典的电话，他一直接到的电话。
I need your advice on a credit situation that my wife and I have gotten ourselves into.
我需要你对我和妻子陷入的信用状况提出建议。
OK.
好的。
Susan Drury This is Scott.
苏珊·德鲁里 这是斯科特。
He and his wife have student loans and debts from a failed business.
他和他的妻子背负着学生贷款和一家失败企业的债务。
And when they lost their jobs last year, they started living off their credit cards.
当他们去年失业后，他们开始靠信用卡生活。
Scott just got another job, but he owes almost as much in debt as he'll make in a year.
斯科特刚刚找到了另一份工作，但他所欠的债务几乎和他一年后赚到的一样多。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Dave Ramsey All right.
戴夫·拉姆齐 好吧。
First, get $1,000 cash for miniature emergencies.
首先，获得 1,000 美元现金以应对小型紧急情况。
Cut up your credit cards, and never again are you going to do this.
砍掉你的信用卡，你再也不会这样做了。
OK.
好的。
Dave Ramsey It has to be a healthy level of anger, and I am getting out of this mess, and I'm never going to live like this again.
戴夫·拉姆齐：愤怒必须保持在健康的水平，我正在摆脱这种混乱，我再也不会像这样生活了。
And we're going to build up some savings.
我们将积累一些积蓄。
And it's going to take you about three years of sacrifice and living on a budget.
这将需要你大约三年的牺牲和节俭的生活。
And no vacation, and no new anything, and very little eating out, and rice and beans, and beans and rice.
没有假期，没有新的东西，很少出去吃饭，只有米饭和豆子，豆子和米饭。
And on 55K, you can be debt-free in about three years.
有了 55K，您可以在大约三年内摆脱债务。
OK.
好的。
Susan Drury This is what Dave tells everybody every time, the same thing over and over.
苏珊·德鲁里（Susan Drury） 这是戴夫每次都会对大家说的话，一遍又一遍地重复同样的事情。
Live on a budget.
按预算生活。
Cut up the cards.
把卡片剪下来。
Work extra.
额外工作。
Pay it off and save.
还清并保存。
Rice and beans, beans and rice, this is his sermon.
米和豆，豆和米，这是他的布道。
In the world of The Dave Ramsey Show there's one specter that haunts the US economy, and that is debt, personal debt.
在戴夫拉姆齐秀的世界里，有一个幽灵困扰着美国经济，那就是债务，个人债务。
It's at record levels these days, $8 trillion nationwide.
如今，全国范围内的资金规模达到了创纪录的 8 万亿美元。
And for the first time ever, if you added up everyone's debt in this country, it would be greater than our annual disposable income.
如果把这个国家每个人的债务加起来，这将有史以来第一次超过我们的年可支配收入。
And Dave's got a story that makes people trust him on this subject, a story he tells often on the radio, and which he told me when we sat down for an interview.
戴夫有一个故事让人们在这个问题上信任他，他经常在广播中讲述这个故事，当我们坐下来接受采访时他也告诉了我这个故事。
The way we ended up teaching this stuff was that we went broke.
我们最终教授这些东西的方式是我们破产了。
Sharon and I started with nothing in our 20s, early 20s, and started buying and selling real estate.
莎伦和我在 20 多岁、20 出头的时候一无所有，开始买卖房地产。
And by the time we were 26 years old, we had a little over $4 million worth, a little over $1 million net worth.
当我们 26 岁时，我们的身价略高于 400 万美元，净资产略高于 100 万美元。
I was making, the best year I ever had in the real estate business, I made $250 thousand taxable cash income that year.
这是我在房地产行业有史以来最好的一年，那一年我赚了 25 万美元的应税现金收入。
That's a lot of money for a kid from Antioch, Tennessee.
对于一个来自田纳西州安提阿的孩子来说，这是一大笔钱。
He bought a Jaguar.
他买了一辆捷豹。
They went to Hawaii a couple of times.
他们去了夏威夷几次。
They bought a house, and then a bigger house.
他们买了房子，然后又买了更大的房子。
He was taking out a lot of short-term real estate loans.
他申请了大量短期房地产贷款。
He would use the loans to buy property, fix it up, and re-sell it all within 90 days.
他将利用这些贷款购买房产、进行修缮，然后在 90 天内将其全部转售。
Then the bank got sold, and they called all his loans in it once, and he couldn't pay back the money.
然后银行被卖了，他们一次性收回了他所有的贷款，他无法还钱。
And we fought for two and a half years.
我们战斗了两年半。
We fought against the process of going broke by selling things and working hard, and it didn't work.
我们通过卖东西和努力工作来对抗破产的过程，但它没有奏效。
And we were sued, and sued, and sued, and sued.
我们被起诉、被起诉、被起诉、被起诉。
And we were foreclosed on repeatedly.
我们多次被取消赎回权。
And finally, at the bottom of that, with a brand new baby and a toddler, we were bankrupt.
最后，在最底层，有了一个全新的婴儿和一个蹒跚学步的孩子，我们破产了。
And so there I sat, with all these letters and licenses after my name that said I knew something about money, broke.
于是我坐在那里，名字后面挂着所有这些字母和许可证，表明我对金钱有所了解，破产了。
[LAUGHS] It doesn't work.
[笑]这不起作用。
And I started trying to figure out how money really works, not what someone's theory was.
我开始尝试弄清楚金钱是如何运作的，而不是某人的理论。
This story of how he went broke and how it changed him has all the ingredients that make a great morality tale.
这个关于他如何破产以及它如何改变他的故事具备了构成一个伟大道德故事的所有要素。
And that is how he sees it: the sin of overspending, the dark night of the soul, and the redemption in wealth and success.
他就是这样看待的：过度消费的罪恶、灵魂的黑夜、以及财富和成功的救赎。
Dave's not the first person to say you shouldn't spend more than you make, but he is on a mission to change you and how you deal with money.
戴夫并不是第一个说你的支出不应超过收入的人，但他的使命是改变你以及你处理金钱的方式。
And he is very, very specific about exactly what you should do in exactly what order.
他非常非常具体地说明你应该按照什么顺序做什么。
Then he's there every day to answer questions, to goad you, to push you, to harass you into following his rules.
然后他每天都会在那里回答问题，刺激你，推动你，骚扰你遵守他的规则。
Now, here's your host, best-selling author and financial counselor, Dave Ramsey.
现在，请来主持人、畅销书作家兼财务顾问戴夫·拉姆齐 (Dave Ramsey)。
Welcome to new millennium where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice.
欢迎来到新千年，债务是愚蠢的，现金为王，还清的住房抵押贷款已取代宝马成为首选的身份象征。
Every Friday on the show, they do this thing called Debt-Free Friday.
在节目中的每个星期五，他们都会做“无债星期五”的事情。
People who have followed Dave's rules call in to give their testimony of how they got into debt, how much debt they were in, how they got out, and what it feels like to be free of it.
遵守戴夫规则的人们打电话来提供他们的证词，讲述他们是如何陷入债务的，他们欠了多少债务，他们是如何摆脱债务的，以及摆脱债务的感觉。
This is everyone's favorite part of the show.
这是节目中每个人最喜欢的部分。
Becky, what's up with you?
贝基，你怎么了？
Becky Hi, Dave.
贝基 嗨，戴夫。
I just wanted to let you know that, after four long years, I'm finally down to the first mortgage, and I just got that refinanced on a 15-year.
我只是想让你知道，经过漫长的四年，我终于拿到了第一笔抵押贷款，而且我刚刚获得了 15 年期的再融资。
Good for you.
对你有好处。
Four years, you've been working on this.
四年来，你一直在为此努力。
Yeah.
是的。
A single working mom, and I work three jobs, seven days a week.
我是一位单身职业妈妈，每周 7 天，做三份工作。
Whoa!
哇！
Susan Drury In four years, Becky paid off $21,000 in debt.
苏珊·德鲁里 (Susan Drury) 在四年内，贝基还清了 21,000 美元的债务。
She's got a daughter in college and makes $34,000 from her three jobs, combined.
她有一个正在上大学的女儿，三份工作的总收入为 34,000 美元。
She tells Dave she took extra jobs that let her stay at home at night with her family.
她告诉戴夫，她做了额外的工作，这样她就可以晚上留在家里和家人在一起。
How'd you find this job?
你是怎么找到这份工作的？
Becky One of my friends suggested.
贝基 我的一位朋友建议道。
We were trying to think of things for me to do a few years ago that never closed, and she said something about a nursing home.
几年前，我们试图为我想一些永远不会结束的事情，她说了一些关于疗养院的事情。
And I called.
我打了电话。
I made a list of the ones close to my house, and the second one I called, which is five minutes away, had an opening.
我列了一张靠近我家的名单，我打电话给的第二个，距我家五分钟路程，有一个空缺。
So you guys had a brainstorming session.
所以你们进行了一次头脑风暴会议。
I mean, we got together and said how could I work?
我的意思是，我们聚在一起讨论我该如何工作？
You know, you're just awesome.
你知道，你太棒了。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Dave Ramsey It's a great place to go when you're broke, to work, and you figured that out.
Dave Ramsey：当你破产时，这是一个工作的好地方，而且你已经明白了这一点。
I'm proud of you.
我为你感到骄傲。
That's awesome.
太棒了。
And I just want to give anybody out there that thinks they can't do it, if I can do it, anybody can do it.
我只想向那些认为自己做不到的人提供帮助，如果我能做到，那么任何人都可以做到。
I'll tell you.
我告诉你。
No, I'll tell you anybody can't.
不，我会告诉你任何人都做不到。
They've got to have the work ethic and they've got to have the character that you've got.
他们必须有职业道德，也必须有你所拥有的性格。
And if they have that, they can do it.
如果他们有这个能力，他们就能做到。
Becky, I'm proud of you.
贝基，我为你感到骄傲。
Yell at the top your lungs with all your friends.
和你所有的朋友一起大声喊叫。
OK.
好的。
I'm debt-free!
我无债了！
Becky's Friends Debt-free!
贝基的朋友们无债了！
It's a party, baby!
这是一个派对，宝贝！
Hey!
嘿！
Susan Drury To Dave, it's all about individual initiative, and Becky has it.
苏珊·德鲁里 (Susan Drury) 对戴夫 (Dave) 说，一切都取决于个人主动性，而贝基 (Becky) 就具备这种能力。
And if you don't have it, he's pretty rough.
如果你没有，他就很粗鲁。
Here's Tina.
这是蒂娜。
I have a car payment, and I am upside down.
我有车付，我倒立了。
I've heard a couple of your shows before.
我以前听过你的几个节目。
I want to get out of this debt, so what can I do?
我想摆脱这笔债务，那么我能做什么呢？
10,000 and something.
一万之类的。
Dave Ramsey And what do you think it's worth?
戴夫·拉姆齐（Dave Ramsey）你认为它值多少钱？
5,000 and something.
5,000 左右。
Dave Ramsey Oh, my goodness.
戴夫·拉姆齐 哦，天哪。
What a mess.
真是一团糟。
She makes $800 to $900 a month, and she's paying a $368 car payment.
她每月收入 800 至 900 美元，并支付 368 美元的汽车付款。
Dave is trying to figure out how she came to owe twice as much as the car is now worth.
戴夫正试图弄清楚她为何欠下的钱是这辆车现在价值的两倍。
It turns out she was in a car accident.
原来她出了车祸。
No. Dave Ramsey Oh, crap.
不，戴夫拉姆齐哦，废话。
And you didn't have insurance?
而且你没有保险？
I did.
我做到了。
They sent me the money, but I spent it.
他们给我寄了钱，但我把它花掉了。
I'm afraid what you're looking at is, probably, a really good part-time job, about six or eight months of 80-hour weeks.
恐怕您正在寻找的可能是一份非常好的兼职工作，大约六到八个月，每周工作 80 小时。
That's too much work.
工作量太大了。
Dave Ramsey I can't help you, Tina.
戴夫·拉姆齐 我帮不了你，蒂娜。
OK.
好的。
Thanks, Dave.
谢谢，戴夫。
Dave Ramsey Thanks for the call.
戴夫·拉姆齐 感谢您的来电。
Bye-bye.
再见。
Dave Ramsey I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.
戴夫·拉姆齐（Dave Ramsey） 我是主持人戴夫·拉姆齐（Dave Ramsey）。
See, the bottom line is, you've got the obligation.
看，底线是，你有义务。
You've got a mess, and you can't work your way out of it.
你已经陷入困境，你无法摆脱困境。
You're not willing to work?
你不愿意工作吗？
I don't know anything to call that but lazy.
除了懒惰，我不知道该怎么称呼它。
That's all you can call that, and I can't help you.
你只能这么说，我帮不了你。
Dave says the financial problems we have are because we are too much like Tina and not enough like Becky.
戴夫说，我们遇到的财务问题是因为我们太像蒂娜，而不够像贝基。
His view of the bigger economic picture is that we are all screwing up, each of us individually guilty in the same way.
他对更大的经济图景的看法是，我们都搞砸了，我们每个人都以同样的方式犯有罪。
And this, he says, has nothing to do with the stock market, or the tech bubble, or even rising unemployment.
他说，这与股市、科技泡沫、甚至失业率上升无关。
How have the calls that you get changed since the boom ended?
自繁荣结束以来，您接到的电话有何变化？
They haven't because the boom hasn't ended for the consumer.
他们没有这样做，因为消费者的繁荣尚未结束。
It was never there.
它从来不在那里。
Because the consumer in the '90s, the only thing that has changed for Joe and Susie is their 401K balance is lower.
因为对于 90 年代的消费者来说，Joe 和 Susie 唯一改变的是他们的 401K 余额较低。
But they weren't using it, anyway, to live on.
但无论如何，他们并没有利用它来生存。
So day to day has not changed a bit.
所以日复一日的生活并没有发生任何改变。
They're still borrowing up to their eyeballs in credit card debt.
他们仍然借了很多信用卡债务。
They're still buying cars they can't afford.
他们仍在购买自己买不起的汽车。
And they're still living without a plan and no savings.
他们仍然过着没有计划、没有积蓄的生活。
And so the boom, when it was here, didn't affect them positively, except it gave them a false sense of confidence to go even crazier.
因此，当繁荣到来时，并没有对他们产生积极的影响，只是给了他们一种错误的信心，让他们更加疯狂。
And credit card debt got worse in the '90s.
上世纪 90 年代，信用卡债务变得更加严重。
Now that doesn't make any sense.
现在这没有任何意义了。
I mean, if there was this boom, why don't we have money to buy stuff?
我的意思是，如果有这种繁荣，为什么我们没有钱买东西？
Dave's message is that you are not at the mercy of the economy.
戴夫的信息是，你不会受到经济的摆布。
It might feel like you are, but you're not.
可能感觉你是这样，但其实不是。
He believes this, and he gets other people to believe it.
他相信这一点，并且他让其他人相信这一点。
And I have to say, people, all sorts of people, like his answer.
我不得不说，人们，各种各样的人，都喜欢他的回答。
They flock to him to hear what he has to say.
他们涌向他，想听听他要说什么。
He tells them that there is a very simple but very difficult solution to their money problems, and it's a solution that has no room for excuses and nothing outside your control.
他告诉他们，有一个非常简单但非常困难的解决方案来解决他们的金钱问题，而且这个解决方案没有任何借口，也没有任何事情是你无法控制的。
And maybe that's what people want.
也许这就是人们想要的。
It's a Saturday morning and I'm at a Pentecostal church north of Nashville.
这是一个星期六的早晨，我在纳什维尔北部的一座五旬节教堂。
I'm an hour early and the parking lot is nearly full by the time I get here.
我提前一个小时到达，停车场已经快满了。
The lobby and the halls are filled with Dave Ramsey merchandise and the 2,500 people who are here to see Dave's five-hour, live event.
大厅和大厅里摆满了 Dave Ramsey 的商品，2,500 名观众来这里观看 Dave 长达 5 小时的现场活动。
He has a warm-up act, a comedian, and then he comes on.
他有一个热身表演，一个喜剧演员，然后他就上场了。
Ladies and gentlemen, will you please welcome Dave Ramsey.
女士们先生们，请欢迎戴夫·拉姆齐。
Yeah!
是的！
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thanks.
谢谢。
Well, thank you for being here today.
好的，谢谢您今天来到这里。
We are going to have some fun today.
今天我们要玩得开心。
I found out something about money.
我发现了一些关于钱的事情。
Money's fun if you've got some.
如果你有钱的话，钱是很有趣的。
[LAUGHTER] Susan Drury Dave Ramsey is a brand.
[笑声]Susan Drury Dave Ramsey 是一个品牌。
Not only does he do the radio show, but he writes books, holds these live events, and does curricula, and classes, and counseling sessions.
他不仅做广播节目，还写书、举办这些现场活动、开设课程、上课和咨询。
It takes only four people to run the radio show, but he's got 75 more employees doing all the other stuff.
只需要 4 个人来主持这个广播节目，但他还有 75 名员工在做所有其他事情。
We don't get it locally.
我们本地买不到。
Susan Drury Jane Henkle drove five hours from her home in Indiana to see Dave live.
苏珊·德鲁里·简·亨克从印第安纳州的家开车五个小时来看戴夫的现场表演。
She and her husband have been following Dave's plan for five months.
她和她的丈夫已经遵循戴夫的计划五个月了。
Oh, it's changed our life.
哦，它改变了我们的生活。
I've been married 28 years and, until we met with Dave, my husband and I had never done a budget together.
我已经结婚 28 年了，在遇到戴夫之前，我和丈夫从未一起制定过预算。
We had never.
我们从来没有。
He did the finances, or I did the finances at different parts.
他负责财务，或者我负责不同部分的财务。
We'd never done it together.
我们从来没有一起做过。
We fell into the credit card trap.
我们陷入了信用卡陷阱。
They started with $30,000 in credit card debt, and they've got about $20,000 left to pay off.
他们一开始有 30,000 美元的信用卡债务，现在还剩下大约 20,000 美元需要偿还。
It was a lot different before they started Dave's plan.
在他们开始戴夫的计划之前，情况有很大不同。
A lot of stress.
压力很大。
A lot of stress.
压力很大。
Like, I would hide from him the credit card bills when they would come in.
就像，当信用卡账单进来时，我会向他隐藏信用卡账单。
We're weren't totally honest with each other in our spending.
我们在支出方面并不完全诚实。
We didn't have a budget to see where everything went at the end of the month, or even the end of the week.
我们没有预算来了解月底甚至周末时一切的进展情况。
We were like, whoa!
我们就像，哇！
What's going on here?
这是怎么回事？
Oh, I'm going to the grocery store.
哦，我要去杂货店。
Sorry, no money left.
抱歉，没钱了。
You know?
你知道？
And it's changed things around completely.
它彻底改变了一切。
This sense of excitement is all over this place.
这种兴奋的感觉遍布这里。
Like a roomful of people who are all losing lots of weight doing the exact same thing and succeeding in a world where everybody else is getting fatter.
就像一屋子的人都在减肥，做着同样的事情，并在一个其他人都在变胖的世界里取得了成功。
You hardly ever hear people talk about money in this way with this sense of control.
你几乎不会听到人们以这种控制感以这种方式谈论金钱。
And these are not rich people.
而且这些人都不是富人。
I'm Bobbi Hargrove.
我是博比·哈格罗夫。
Phillip Hargrove I'm Phillip Hargrove.
菲利普·哈格罗夫 我是菲利普·哈格罗夫。
I've been listening, probably, about five years now.
我大概已经听了五年了。
I drive a truck, so I'm up this way a lot.
我开卡车，所以我经常这样。
So I get to hear him on-- I wondered what the people on the radio was saying, that they was getting out of debt and all this.
所以我听到他的讲话——我想知道广播里的人在说什么，他们正在摆脱债务之类的事情。
And I was like how's this work?
我就想这怎么样？
So I love it, you know?
所以我喜欢它，你知道吗？
My kids, they come in, I've got the tape on the TV or I've got a CD in and everything.
我的孩子们，他们进来了，我在电视上放了磁带，或者我放了一张 CD 等等。
I live and breath this stuff, you know?
我生活和呼吸这些东西，你知道吗？
It's changing everything that I've ever been taught, you know?
它正在改变我所学到的一切，你知道吗？
In a way, it's sort of a simple thing to have a plan on how to spend and save your money.
在某种程度上，制定如何花钱和存钱的计划是一件简单的事情。
But here we are in the richest country in the world, an economic superpower, and few of us have ever really learned how to do that.
但我们身处世界上最富有的国家、一个经济超级大国，而我们中很少有人真正学会了如何做到这一点。
When I tell my friends here in Tennessee that I'm doing a story on Dave Ramsey, one person after another tells me how he changed their lives.
当我告诉田纳西州的朋友我正在写一篇关于戴夫·拉姆齐的故事时，一个又一个的人告诉我他如何改变了他们的生活。
I hear this from a teacher, a professional musician, a reporter, a lawyer, and some farmers.
我从一位老师、一位职业音乐家、一位记者、一位律师和一些农民那里听到了这样的说法。
Kim Turner and her husband have done Dave's plan for several years.
金·特纳和她的丈夫多年来一直在执行戴夫的计划。
You know, listening to that keeps you on the straight and narrow so that you don't stray, kind of like you go to church.
你知道，听这些可以让你保持正直和狭窄，这样你就不会迷失方向，就像你去教堂一样。
Even though you already know what he's going to say, but it's just, I guess, you need to hear that every day.
尽管你已经知道他要说什么，但我想，你每天都需要听到这些。
A lot of people I met made this connection between going to church and listening to Dave's show, and it's not accidental.
我遇到的很多人都把去教堂和听戴夫的节目联系起来，这并非偶然。
Dave's a Christian, and he doesn't shy away from quoting Scripture or talking about God on the show.
戴夫是一名基督徒，他在节目中并不回避引用圣经或谈论上帝。
As he tells callers, the Bible doesn't contain any positive references to debt.
正如他告诉来电者的那样，圣经中没有任何关于债务的正面提及。
His 13-week course, Financial Peace University, is held in hundreds of churches, and he works with ministers to publicize his live events.
他的金融和平大学课程为期 13 周，在数百个教堂举办，他与牧师合作宣传他的现场活动。
For lots of folks, the religious angle on money is the way in.
对于很多人来说，从宗教角度看待金钱是他们的出路。
Sometimes people call in to thank Dave for his show.
有时人们打电话来感谢戴夫的表演。
They call it his ministry.
他们称之为他的事工。
And he's OK with that term, although he says he doesn't want to be pigeonholed as the Christian financial guy.
他对这个词很满意，尽管他说他不想被归类为基督教金融家。
Talk radio is one of the last intimate mediums where people can have their emotions touched along with their information.
谈话广播是最后一种亲密的媒介之一，人们可以在传递信息的同时表达自己的情感。
And so, in that sense, it does become a very large accountability group.
因此，从这个意义上说，它确实成为一个非常大的问责小组。
And you can name it Promise Keepers, you could name it AA, you could name it therapy, it just depends on your belief system on how you would approach it and what vernacular you might put with it.
你可以将它命名为“承诺守护者”，你可以将其命名为 AA，你可以将其命名为“疗法”，它只取决于你的信仰体系，以及你将如何对待它以及你可能会用什么语言来表达它。
Certainly, from a Christian viewpoint, what we do is minister.
当然，从基督徒的角度来看，我们所做的就是牧师。
From a therapy viewpoint, what we do is do therapy.
从治疗的角度来看，我们所做的就是进行治疗。
888-825-5225.
888-825-5225。
We're going to start this segment off with Kerry in Kankakee, Illinois, WKAN 1320.
我们将从伊利诺伊州 Kankakee 的 Kerry 开始，地址为 WKAN 1320。
Hi, Kerry.
嗨，凯瑞。
How are you?
你好吗？
Hi.
你好。
How are you?
你好吗？
Dave Ramsey Good.
戴夫·拉姆齐 好。
How can I help?
我能提供什么帮助吗？
Kerry lives with two teenage sons from an earlier marriage and with a boyfriend.
克里与前一段婚姻所生的两个十几岁的儿子和一个男朋友住在一起。
OK.
好的。
And we both work.
我们都工作。
OK?
好的？
He makes almost $1,000 a week, where I make $300 a week.
他每周赚近 1,000 美元，而我每周赚 300 美元。
I'm a factory worker.
我是一名工厂工人。
OK.
好的。
The thing is, he's like very, to a point, controlling.
问题是，他在某种程度上非常有控制欲。
We share expenses.
我们分担费用。
I have to give up half of my paycheck to pay for the bills, to help pay for the bills.
我必须放弃一半的薪水来支付账单，帮助支付账单。
When I'm done doing that, then I have hardly any money left to do for my kids, or for myself, or to try and put money back.
当我完成这件事后，我就几乎没有剩下的钱可以为我的孩子或我自己做，或者尝试把钱收回来。
OK.
好的。
He says that I can't leave because I would never be able to make it on my own.
他说我不能离开，因为我自己永远无法成功。
I will admit, I'm not very good at handling money.
我承认，我不太擅长处理金钱。
I don't know how.
我不知道怎么办。
Well, let me ask you something.
好吧，让我问你一件事。
If you were sitting down with a cup of coffee-- how old are you?
如果你坐下来喝杯咖啡——你多大了？
I'm 41.
我41岁了。
Dave Ramsey OK.
戴夫·拉姆齐 好的。
If you were to sit down over a cup of coffee with a 27-year-old, single, young lady that was living with a guy, and she told you what you just told me, what would you tell her?
如果你和一位 27 岁的单身年轻女士坐在一起喝咖啡，她和一个男人住在一起，她告诉你你刚才告诉我的事情，你会告诉她什么？
To get out.
为了出去。
You can make it on your own.
你可以自己做。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
Good advice.
好建议。
Kerry OK, but how do I start on my income?
克里 好的，但是我如何开始我的收入呢？
Well, I'm not positive.
嗯，我并不积极。
You don't make a lot of money, I agree with that.
你赚的钱不多，我同意这一点。
But let me tell you what, you're in a really unhealthy relationship.
但让我告诉你，你们的关系非常不健康。
You're dealing with a guy who-- he's not hitting you, is he?
你正在和一个人打交道，他不会打你，是吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Dave Ramsey I'm not sure I believe you.
戴夫拉姆齐 我不确定我是否相信你。
It's OK.
没关系。
I need to-- Dave Ramsey You've got to get out of there, girl.
我需要——戴夫·拉姆齐（Dave Ramsey），你必须离开那里，女孩。
You've got to get out of there now.
你现在必须离开那里。
OK?
好的？
He says, you know, that it's me.
他说，你知道，是我。
It's because--
这是因为——
No. It's not you, darling.
不，这不是你，亲爱的。
This guy's sick.
这家伙有病吧
OK.
好的。
Dave Ramsey You've got to get away from him.
戴夫·拉姆齐（Dave Ramsey）：你必须远离他。
Well, I can tell you this.
好吧，我可以告诉你这一点。
If nothing else, you can start by going to a domestic violence shelter right now and checking in with your kids.
如果没有别的事，您可以立即前往家庭暴力庇护所并与您的孩子联系。
And they will help you put together a budget, and get back on your feet, and get other employment.
他们将帮助您制定预算，重新站起来，并找到其他工作。
And you may have to take a part-time job.
而且您可能必须从事兼职工作。
You may have to move into subsidized housing of some kind.
您可能必须搬进某种补贴住房。
I don't know exactly what the short-term, the next six months, is going to look like, but I can tell you this Kerry, you were not designed by God for this man.
我不知道短期内，即接下来的六个月会是什么样子，但我可以告诉你，克里，你不是上帝为这个人设计的。
OK.
好的。
Susan Drury Dave gives her the phone number for a women's shelter.
苏珊·德鲁里·戴夫给了她妇女庇护所的电话号码。
And then, after Kerry's call, one person after another called in to tell Kerry to leave.
然后，在克里打完电话后，一个又一个的人打来电话，让克里离开。
Women who had quit abusive relationships years earlier, men and women who had grown up in violent homes, women who had felt they had been controlled by a lack of money or a fear of not being able to make it on their own, most of the calls didn't mention money at all.
多年前就摆脱虐待关系的女性、在暴力家庭中长大的男性和女性、感觉自己因缺钱或担心无法独立生存而受到控制的女性，大多数电话根本没有提到钱。
Susan Drury lives in Tennessee.
苏珊·德鲁里住在田纳西州。
To find out where to hear the talented Dave Ramsey on the radio every single day, go to daveramsey.com.
要了解每天在广播中收听才华横溢的戴夫·拉姆齐 (Dave Ramsey) 的位置，请访问 daveramsey.com。
Coming up, mild-mannered radio reporter seeks vigilante justice from the entire internet-level economy, sort of.
接下来，温和的电台记者将寻求整个互联网经济中的治安正义。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
[MUSIC - "PENNIES FROM HEAVEN"]
[音乐-“来自天堂的便士”]
With This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
在《美国生活》中，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, a show we call My Two Cents in which we visit three people in three different places in the economy to try to understand this weird non-recovery recovery we're supposed to be in right now.
今天在我们的节目中，我们称之为“我的两分钱”节目，在节目中我们拜访了经济中三个不同地方的三个人，试图了解我们现在应该处于的这种奇怪的非恢复性复苏。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two: Stock Making Sense.
第二幕：股票有意义。
Right now, half of all American households own stock either through retirement plans, or through mutual funds, or that they bought themselves.
目前，一半的美国家庭通过退休计划、共同基金或自己购买股票拥有股票。
But during the internet bubble, all sorts of people got into the stock market that probably never should have.
但在互联网泡沫期间，各种各样的人进入了股市，而这些人可能永远不应该进入股市。
Like, for instance, one of the producers of this is very radio program, Mr Alex Blumberg.
例如，这个广播节目的制作人之一，亚历克斯·布隆伯格先生。
If I were rich, your life would be different.
如果我有钱，你的生活就会不一样。
I know this for sure.
我肯定知道这一点。
I know this because the source of my wealth would have an invention that changed the way you shop.
我知道这一点是因为我的财富来源将有一项改变你购物方式的发明。
This invention that would have made my fortune would also have revolutionized the distribution of carbonated beverages and would have been displayed in every supermarket, convenience store, and Walmart in America.
这项发明本来可以让我发家致富，也将彻底改变碳酸饮料的销售方式，并且会在美国的每家超市、便利店和沃尔玛展示。
Instead, what happened is this.
相反，发生的事情是这样的。
I bought stock in a company on a tip in 1997.
1997年，我通过提示购买了一家公司的股票。
By 1998, the stock was worthless.
到1998年，该股票已经一文不值。
I've spent the intervening years trying to forget that it ever happened.
在接下来的几年里，我一直试图忘记它曾经发生过。
It was the only investment I ever made.
这是我做过的唯一投资。
I was the only person I know to go zero for the '90s, to have a perfect losing record for the greatest peacetime economic boom in history.
我是我认识的唯一一个在 90 年代为零的人，在历史上最伟大的和平时期经济繁荣中拥有完美的失败记录。
Now I find myself wondering, probably with everyone else who lost money in the stock market collapse, what happened?
现在我发现自己想知道，可能和其他在股市崩盘中亏损的人一样，发生了什么？
Was it mass-delusion destined to crumble from the beginning?
难道这个集体妄想从一开始就注定要崩溃吗？
Or could things have turned out differently?
或者事情的结果会有所不同吗？
What was going on inside all those factories and online boutiques we bought pieces of at the end of the last century?
我们在上世纪末购买的所有工厂和网上精品店里到底发生了什么？
All right.
好的。
Well, I'm putting on a head lamp because I have to go look for stuff that might be in the basement.
好吧，我要戴上头灯，因为我必须去寻找地下室里可能有的东西。
What's in the basement?
地下室里有什么？
Shane Monsters.
谢恩怪物。
Financial monsters.
金融怪物。
It was my best friend, Shane, who gave me the stock tip in 1997.
1997 年，我最好的朋友肖恩 (Shane) 向我提供了有关股票的建议。
And all the records are his basement where, symbolically enough, there are no lights.
所有的唱片都在他的地下室里，颇具象征意义的是，那里没有灯。
Shane had never invested in anything either.
谢恩也从未投资过任何东西。
He knew nothing about stocks, but he saw other people making money and he wanted in on the action.
他对股票一无所知，但他看到其他人赚钱，他想参与其中。
He called a good friend who he thought knew about this stuff, got a tip, and promptly called me.
他给一个好朋友打了电话，他认为他知道这件事，得到了提示，并立即给我打了电话。
I remember the phone call, but I was always fuzzy on what the company actually did.
我记得那通电话，但我总是不清楚公司到底做了什么。
It was some kind of in-store, self-service beverage dispenser.
这是某种店内自助饮料机。
Customers put an empty bottle under a nozzle, chose a flavor, and seconds later they had a full two-liter of off-brand juice or soda for a fraction of what it would cost in the soft drink aisle.
顾客将一个空瓶子放在喷嘴下，选择一种口味，几秒钟后，他们就可以喝到一整两升的非品牌果汁或苏打水，而价格只是软饮料货架上的一小部分。
Plus, it was organic or healthy or something.
另外，它是有机的或健康的什么的。
Frankly, I wan't paying all that much attention.
坦白说，我不想太关注。
They were going to be in stores all over the place.
它们将出现在各地的商店中。
Shane said he was putting in 5,000.
谢恩说他要投入 5,000 美元。
My total income that year, according to my '97 taxes, was $17,529, but I'd just gotten a big freelance check.
根据 97 年的税款，我那一年的总收入为 17,529 美元，但我刚刚收到了一张大额自由职业支票。
I said put me down for 1,000.
我说给我1000块。
Finally, I thought, some of the boom will spill over onto me.
最后，我想，一些繁荣将会波及到我身上。
Taxes, '94, '99.
税收，'94，'99。
That's going to be in there.
那将会在那里。
Beneath some old dog beds, Shane finds a promising looking shoe box.
在一些旧狗床下面，肖恩发现了一个看起来很有前途的鞋盒。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Alex Blumberg Well, this is the mother lode.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg） 嗯，这是母矿脉。
That'd survive an audit.
这样就能通过审核。
Alex Blumberg OK.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格 好的。
This is the end of your statement.
您的发言到此结束。
And this is on 7, 29, '97, we bought 1,400 shares of Fountain Fresh International, symbol FTFR, at $4.12-1/2 cents.
97 年 7 月 29 日，我们以 4.12-1/2 美分的价格购买了 1,400 股 Fountain Fresh International 股票，代码为 FTFR。
To help us sort through what happened to Fountain Fresh International, we've brought along our most financially astute friend, Mike Quattrocki, who does something involving lots of money and words like hedge funds, derivatives, and options, with the Chicago Board of Trade.
为了帮助我们理清 Fountain Fresh International 发生的事情，我们请来了我们最精明的朋友迈克·夸特罗基 (Mike Quattrocki)，他在芝加哥期货交易所做了一些涉及大量资金和词汇的工作，比如对冲基金、衍生品和期权。
Standing with his drink in stocking feet on Shane's unheated cellar floor, he's surrounded by old bicycles, rusty toolboxes, garbage bags filled with magazines, and Shane's financial records.
他穿着袜子站在肖恩没有暖气的地窖地板上，周围是旧自行车、生锈的工具箱、装满杂志的垃圾袋和肖恩的财务记录。
He gets right to mockery.
他很容易受到嘲笑。
It was not a technology play?
这不是科技剧吗？
Shane Well, the beverage center was high-tech, but it was not internet.
肖恩：好吧，饮料中心是高科技的，但它不是互联网。
So, at the birth of the internet, you were buying beverage stocks?
那么，在互联网诞生时，您购买了饮料股票吗？
I'd like to point out here that I've never even made enough money to lose as much as Mike did in the stock market.
我想在这里指出，我从来没有赚到足够的钱来像迈克在股票市场上那样损失那么多。
Plenty of his tech stocks went to zero too.
他的许多科技股也跌至零。
He's mocking us not because we lost money, but because we lost it in a slightly different way than he and all his friends did.
他嘲笑我们并不是因为我们赔了钱，而是因为我们赔钱的方式与他和他所有朋友的方式略有不同。
What's in there?
里面有什么？
Alex Blumberg We bring the box back upstairs and begin to reconstruct what happened to the stock.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）：我们把盒子带回楼上，开始重建股票的情况。
With hindsight, there's a few things in the purchase certificate itself that don't bode well.
事后看来，购买凭证本身有一些不好的预兆。
Like the name of the brokerage house, Olde Discount: O- L- D- E.
就像经纪公司的名字一样，Olde Discount：O-L-D-E。
Mike has never heard of it.
迈克从未听说过。
Shane chose it on the advice of the same friend who gave him the tip.
肖恩根据给他小费的同一位朋友的建议选择了它。
I said, "Well, how do you buy a stock?" And he goes, "Well, you have to open a brokerage account, and you probably want to go to one of these discount places where the fees aren't high."
我说：“那你怎么买股票呢？”他说：“好吧，你必须开设一个经纪账户，而且你可能想去这些费用不高的折扣店之一。”
So you got this tip.
所以你得到了这个提示。
And then the next thing you had to figure out was, I know the stock I want to buy, how do I actually buy it?
然后你必须弄清楚的下一件事是，我知道我想购买的股票，我该如何购买它？
Exactly.
确切地。
And I look in the phone book, and there's a discount one, called Olde, and it's downtown.
我查了一下电话簿，有一家打折电话，叫 Olde，就在市中心。
That sounds really suspicious.
这听起来确实很可疑。
Why didn't you just go to Fidelity?
你为什么不直接去富达？
Why didn't you just-- what?
你为什么不只是——什么？
Because it was low fees.
因为收费低。
Mike Quattrocki Schwab or anything with a little name recognition.
Mike Quatrocki Schwab 或任何有一点知名度的东西。
I know.
我知道。
Mike Quattrocki I mean, Olde?
迈克·夸特罗基 我是说，奥尔德？
I mean, did you actually write the check out to Olde when you bought the stock?
我的意思是，当你购买股票时，你真的把支票写给了奥尔德吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
No. It was like a national chain.
不，它就像一个全国连锁店。
It was like the poor man's Schwab.
这就像穷人的施瓦布。
It's easy that it doesn't exist.
它不存在很容易。
I'm betting money it's gone.
我敢打赌，钱已经没了。
We look.
我们看看。
Olde's not in the phone book, but we do find something about it on the internet.
奥尔德不在电话簿中，但我们确实在互联网上找到了一些有关它的信息。
--go down.
- 下去。
That's the regulation press release in '98.
这是98年的监管新闻稿。
What happened there?
那里发生了什么？
Oh.
哦。
Today fined Olde Discount--
今天被罚Olde Discount——
1.35 million and censured it in connection with the firm's sales practices.
135万并谴责其与该公司的销售行为有关。
Founder, Ernest Olde, also fined 500,000 and suspended.
创始人 Ernest Olde 也被罚款 50 万并停职。
[LAUGHTER] Alex Blumberg It turns out that Olde Discount Corporation had been engaging in a fairly common brokerage scam in the '90s.
[笑声] Alex Blumberg 事实证明，Olde Discount Corporation 在 90 年代一直从事相当常见的经纪骗局。
They'd quote the customer one price, buy the stock at a lower price, and pocket the difference.
他们会向客户报出一个价格，然后以较低的价格购买股票，然后将差价收入囊中。
Mike shakes his head.
迈克摇摇头。
Did anyone advise you when you went in there and said to alert you to the risks associated?
当您进入那里时，是否有人建议您并提醒您相关风险？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
He said they're going to make you fill out a form.
他说他们会让你填写一份表格。
What is your tolerance for risk?
您的风险承受能力是多少？
Blah, blah, blah.
巴拉，巴拉，巴拉。
$5,000, at the time, to you, was a lot of money.
5,000 美元，对于当时的你来说，是很多钱了。
A lot of money.
很多钱。
Mike Quattrocki When you come in to a discount brokerage house, and you walk in off the sheet, I don't know what you looked like.
Mike Quattrocki 当你走进一家折扣经纪公司时，你走进去时，我不知道你长什么样。
I don't know how you were dressed, but you clearly were clutching your 5,000 and Alex's 1,000, and you came in with a very specific stock in mind.
我不知道你穿得怎么样，但你显然手里拿着你的 5,000 美元和亚历克斯的 1,000 美元，而且你进来时脑子里就想着一只非常具体的股票。
And you came in, and you queried about a stock that he had, surely, never heard of.
你进来了，你询问了一只他肯定从未听说过的股票。
And then you decided that you wanted to buy that stock.
然后你决定购买该股票。
I'm sure alarm bells were clanging in his head, for sure.
我确信他脑子里已经敲响了警钟。
[LAUGHS] Alex Blumberg It was shocking to hear Mike lay out the broker's perspective on this.
[笑] Alex Blumberg 听到 Mike 阐述了经纪人对此的观点，我感到很震惊。
Shane and I had never stopped to consider how we might have looked to someone who actually knew about this stuff.
谢恩和我从未停下来考虑过，对于那些真正了解这些东西的人来说，我们会是什么样子。
We knew we didn't know anything, but we had no idea just how clearly everyone else could see that.
我们知道我们什么都不知道，但我们不知道其他人能多么清楚地看到这一点。
And if you walked in off the street with this $6,000, I would say, "Sonny, go home and save your money."
如果你拿着这 6,000 美元从街上走进来，我会说：“桑尼，回家存点钱吧。”
[LAUGHS] Mike Quattrocki I would say, as an honorable broker, that's what an honorable-- an honorable broker should not have processed this trade.
[笑] Mike Quatrocki 我想说，作为一名受人尊敬的经纪人，这就是一位受人尊敬的经纪人不应该处理这笔交易的。
He should have just said, "Go home.
他应该直接说：“回家吧。”
Don't buy this stock I've never heard of."
不要买这只我从未听说过的股票。”
At some point during this dispiriting lesson on how not to buy a stock, it occurred to me that maybe things were worse than I'd even imagined.
在这个关于如何不购买股票的令人沮丧的课程中的某个时刻，我突然意识到事情可能比我想象的还要糟糕。
Maybe we hadn't just been foolish, maybe we'd been scammed.
也许我们不只是愚蠢，也许我们被骗了。
Maybe Fountain Fresh had never even existed.
也许Fountain Fresh根本就不存在。
And so five years after the fact, and with my stock worth exactly 1/100 of a cent per share, I decided to do the research I should have done before I even bought it.
五年后，我的股票价值恰好为每股 1/100 美分，我决定在购买之前做一些我应该做的研究。
For a while, everything I learn is troubling.
有一段时间，我学到的一切都令人不安。
In the years between 1985 and 2000 it had at least eight different CEOs.
1985 年至 2000 年间，该公司至少更换了八位首席执行官。
Press releases from 1985 to 2000 all declare the same thing, that the company is just about to turn a profit, but not one says that the company actually has.
1985 年到 2000 年的新闻稿都宣称同一件事，即该公司即将扭亏为盈，但没有人说该公司实际上已经扭亏为盈。
Big new contracts with Walmart and various supermarket chains in Canada, Australia, and the Philippines, are constantly announced.
与沃尔玛以及加拿大、澳大利亚和菲律宾各连锁超市的大型新合同不断宣布。
But, mysteriously, revenue never goes up.
但奇怪的是，收入却从未增加。
I find no SEC filings on the company, no annual reports, no website.
我没有找到该公司的 SEC 文件、年度报告、网站。
And then I find a December 2nd, 1995 article in the Modesto Bee.
然后我在《Modesto Bee》上找到了 1995 年 12 月 2 日的一篇文章。
It says a Fountain Fresh machine was installed in the Sav Max Foods in Ceres, California.
据称，加利福尼亚州 Ceres 的 Sav Max Foods 公司安装了一台 Fountain Fresh 机器。
It was in the corner of the store in the back area because a lot of tubes had to go to it.
它位于商店后面的角落，因为有很多管子必须经过那里。
All these tubes, because you imagine every tube had to do carbonation and then flavors.
所有这些管子，因为你想象每个管子都必须进行碳酸化，然后进行调味。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
When I called the Sav Max store, the person who picks up the phone is Christine Arianne.
当我给 Sav Max 商店打电话时，接电话的人是 Christine Arianne。
I can't really tell you the relief I feel when she confirms that Fountain Fresh actually had a product.
当她确认 Fountain Fresh 确实有一款产品时，我真的无法形容我的如释重负。
A product means that they must have had a factory to make it in, and sales people to sell it, and delivery people to deliver it.
一个产品意味着他们必须有工厂来制造它，有销售人员来销售它，还有送货人员来送货。
A product means that it wasn't a scam, it was an actual company that made actual things that actual people had actually seen.
产品意味着它不是一个骗局，它是一家真实的公司，制造了真实的人们亲眼所见的真实的东西。
Christine talks to me while ringing up customers.
克里斯汀一边给顾客打电话一边和我说话。
They had a blue ice flavor and a lemonade.
他们有蓝色冰的味道和柠檬水。
They had an off-brand Coca Cola or Pepsi.
他们有非品牌的可口可乐或百事可乐。
I mean, it was kind of like you just put your soda underneath there and pushed the button that you wanted, and then it would just fill it up.
我的意思是，这有点像你把苏打水放在下面，然后按下你想要的按钮，然后它就会填满它。
And it filled it up cold.
它充满了寒冷。
Talk about, as far as you could tell, was it popular with the customers?
据您所知，谈谈它是否受到顾客的欢迎？
Very popular.
非常受欢迎。
I think because it wasn't very expensive.
我想是因为它不是很贵。
It was like $0.69 to fill a two-liter, and I want to say $0.49 to fill a one-liter.
两升水的价格是 0.69 美元，一升水的价格是 0.49 美元。
It was a lot cheaper, so I think--
价格便宜很多，所以我想——
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
Christine Arianne Oh yeah, she did.
克里斯汀·阿丽安 哦，是的，她做到了。
Where'd she go?
她去哪儿了？
She's got to come back.
她必须回来。
She just took her [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
她刚刚带走了她[无法理解]。
I had a lady forget her groceries.
我有一位女士忘记了她的杂货。
OK.
好的。
Christine Arianne Yeah.
克里斯汀·阿丽安 是的。
So it did good.
所以效果很好。
It went really well.
进展非常顺利。
As a matter of fact, a lot of people were all really bummed when it went out of business.
事实上，当它倒闭时，很多人都感到非常沮丧。
Did people actually come up to you and talk to you about it?
人们真的来找你并与你谈论这件事吗？
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
They were like, where'd it go?
他们就像，它去哪儿了？
We were just getting the hang of that.
我们刚刚掌握了窍门。
Where'd it go?
它去哪儿了？
It just seemed like we had it and then, all of a sudden, it was gone.
似乎我们拥有它，然后突然之间，它就消失了。
The real go-go years for Fountain Fresh were right around the time they installed the machine in Christine's store.
Fountain Fresh 真正的繁荣时期就在他们在 Christine 商店安装机器的时候。
In '94, the stock had risen to its all time high, $9 a share.
94 年，该股涨至历史最高点，每股 9 美元。
And in '96, a man named Richard Maynes took over as CEO.
96 年，理查德·梅恩斯 (Richard Maynes) 接任首席执行官。
He was charismatic, capable, everyone loved him, and he set the company on an ambitious new path.
他很有魅力、有能力，每个人都爱他，他带领公司走上了一条雄心勃勃的新道路。
To figure out how to better sell the product, he hired Doblin Incorporated, a consulting company so fancy that they called themselves--
为了弄清楚如何更好地销售产品，他聘请了 Doblin Incorporated，这是一家非常出色的咨询公司，他们称自己为——
An innovation strategy firm.
一家创新战略公司。
Alex Blumberg Peter Laundy managed the Fountain Fresh project for Doblin, and he still says that Fountain Fresh had a great product.
Alex Blumberg Peter Laundy 为 Doblin 管理 Fountain Fresh 项目，他仍然表示 Fountain Fresh 拥有出色的产品。
It was cheaper than regular soda.
它比普通苏打水便宜。
It took up less shelf space, which grocers liked.
它占用的货架空间更少，这是杂货商喜欢的。
You could re-fill the same bottle over and over again, so it had an environmental angle.
你可以一遍又一遍地重新填充同一个瓶子，因此它具有环保角度。
But its most important advantage had to do with distribution.
但它最重要的优势与分销有关。
It allowed you to bottle soda at the grocery store.
它允许你在杂货店装瓶苏打水。
And that was really efficient because soda is, basically, 95% water with a little sugar and flavoring added, and it's a whole lot cheaper to pipe water to a grocery store than to load it into bottles and truck it.
这确实非常有效，因为苏打水基本上是 95% 的水，添加了一点糖和调味剂，而且将水通过管道输送到杂货店比将水装入瓶子并用卡车运输要便宜得多。
This idea of the bottled soft drink that doesn't need to be shipped turns out as something of a holy grail in the beverage industry.
这种无需运输的瓶装软饮料的想法被证明是饮料行业的圣杯。
For years, people were trying to figure out a way to do it, Fountain Fresh succeeded.
多年来，人们一直在寻找一种方法来做到这一点，Fountain Fresh 成功了。
I told Shane about my conversation with Peter Laundy.
我告诉谢恩我和彼得·朗迪的谈话。
So I talked to the guy from the Doblin Group yesterday, and he explained to me what the original genius was.
所以我昨天和 Doblin Group 的那个人谈过，他向我解释了最初的天才是什么。
Was it the natural ingredients, or the reusable?
是天然成分还是可重复使用的成分？
Or what was the deal?
或者说，这笔交易是什么？
He said that the original genius was that it had figured out a way to make a two-liter soda without having to ship it, basically.
他说，最初的天才在于它找到了一种基本上不需要运输就能生产两升苏打水的方法。
Right.
正确的。
You ship an ounce of ingredients, and then you add the water when you get there.
你运送一盎司的原料，然后当你到达那里时加水。
Then the machine actually purifies the tap water, and then it mixes it all together.
然后机器实际上净化了自来水，然后将它们混合在一起。
And it does it for you right there.
它就在那里为你做这件事。
I've got to say I would do it all over again.
我不得不说我会重来一遍。
It's genius.
这是天才。
There is a genius there.
那里有一个天才。
There is genius, and we don't even know the full genius.
天才是存在的，但我们甚至不知道天才的全部。
It's cheaper, it's way cheaper.
它更便宜，它便宜得多。
Also he said that it's free advertising because, basically, you have a machine in the store, and he said that you can cover that machine, the face of that machine, with whatever image you want.
他还说这是免费广告，因为基本上，你在商店里有一台机器，他说你可以用你想要的任何图像覆盖那台机器，那台机器的表面。
And it's, basically, a huge surface.
基本上，它是一个巨大的表面。
And he said the problem with Coke and other groceries is that the only picture you can put is on a tiny, two-liter bottle.
他说可口可乐和其他杂货的问题在于，你唯一可以贴的图片是在一个两升的小瓶子上。
And yet, despite the problem of the tiny two-liter bottle, Coke and Pepsi still manage to pay their stockholders more than a penny a share.
然而，尽管存在两升小瓶的问题，可口可乐和百事可乐仍然设法向股东支付每股一美分以上的费用。
You can really, really do some good brand forming.
你真的可以做一些很好的品牌塑造。
I explained to Shane how Doblin's first step was to give Maynes a story to tell investors so that he could raise money to finally put Fountain Fresh over the edge.
我向肖恩解释说，多布林的第一步是给梅恩斯讲一个故事给投资者听，这样他就可以筹集资金，最终让 Fountain Fresh 摆脱困境。
They gave him a PowerPoint presentation and a fancy, wire-bound pitch, which he could take around to rich Wall Street types.
他们给了他一份 PowerPoint 演示文稿和一份精美的、有线装订的宣传材料，他可以将其传播给富有的华尔街人士。
The CEO did the typical late '90s suitcases full of cash, which Doblin went to work spending.
这位首席执行官做了典型的 90 年代末手提箱里装满现金的做法，多布林将这些钱用来上班。
They hired some of the fanciest industrial design firms around to redo the exterior of the machine.
他们聘请了一些最出色的工业设计公司来重做机器的外观。
It was no longer going to be a non-descript, chunky box with spill stains down the front.
它不再是一个不起眼、厚重的盒子，前面有溢出的污渍。
It was going to be a sleek, beautiful box with spill stains down the front.
它将是一个时尚、漂亮的盒子，前面有溢出的污渍。
So, how does an innovative concept backed by lots of cash go out of business?
那么，一个拥有大量现金支持的创新概念是如何倒闭的呢？
Eric Gillette was hired as the liaison between the high-priced designers in the East and the plant in Salt Lake City.
埃里克·吉列被聘为东部高价设计师与盐湖城工厂之间的联络人。
When Shane and I talked to him, he said, "For one thing, there was a culture clash.
当我和肖恩与他交谈时，他说：“一方面，存在文化冲突。
The consultants back East were used to working with huge clients."
东方的顾问们习惯于与大客户合作。”
They're heavy hitters.
他们是重量级人物。
These are really smart people and they work for multimillion dollar contracts for big US corporations.
这些人都是非常聪明的人，他们为美国大公司签订了数百万美元的合同。
And then the antithesis of that is this dumpy warehouse in Salt Lake, which was the headquarters for Fountain Fresh, and guys drive pickup trucks, and wear T-shirts, and have wrenches in their hand, you know?
与之相反的是盐湖城这个破旧的仓库，这里是 Fountain Fresh 的总部，人们开着皮卡车，穿着 T 恤，手里拿着扳手，你知道吗？
And so it's these two completely different cultures that were trying to pull this off.
因此，正是这两种完全不同的文化试图实现这一目标。
For a long time we were not even sure that Fountain Fresh ever existed as a company.
很长一段时间我们甚至不确定 Fountain Fresh 是否作为一家公司存在过。
So it's sort of comforting to hear you say that there actually was a warehouse with guys in T-shirts driving trucks.
所以听到你说确实有一个仓库，里面有穿着 T 恤的人驾驶卡车，这有点令人欣慰。
And that they had wrenches.
他们有扳手。
Alex Blumberg Yes.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格 是的。
Exactly.
确切地。
Especially that they had wrenches.
尤其是他们有扳手。
No. I mean, I think it had existed for a long time on this kind of really small level with these guys, basically, tinkering with this machine.
不，我的意思是，我认为它已经在这种非常小的水平上存在了很长一段时间，这些人基本上是在修补这台机器。
What happened to Fountain Fresh is what happened to the US economy as a whole in the late 90s.
Fountain Fresh 的遭遇就是 90 年代末美国整个经济的遭遇。
Fountain Fresh was a bunch of regular guys trying to take a good idea and make a little money with it.
Fountain Fresh 是一群普通人，他们试图接受一个好主意并用它赚点小钱。
Suddenly, these suits show up saying the idea is the next big thing.
突然，这些西装出现，表明这个想法是下一件大事。
They rent out ballrooms and hire event planners for shareholder meetings.
他们出租舞厅并聘请活动策划者来举办股东会议。
Talk about fundamental shifts in economic paradigms, convince everyone that their vision is real despite evidence to the contrary.
谈论经济范式的根本性转变，让每个人相信他们的愿景是真实的，尽管有相反的证据。
The whole summer Fountain Fresh was preparing for their big roll out, their stock price was steadily dropping.
整个夏天，Fountain Fresh 都在为他们的大推出做准备，他们的股价却在稳步下跌。
And Shane and I knew it, we were watching, and we knew just what to do.
肖恩和我知道这一点，我们正在观察，我们知道该怎么做。
The one thing I had heard about investing, buy and hold.
关于投资，我听说过的一件事就是购买并持有。
So you're not supposed to sell it, even when it goes down, especially when it goes down because that's what the suckers do.
所以你不应该卖掉它，即使它下跌了，尤其是当它下跌的时候，因为这就是傻瓜所做的。
Well, it makes sense, though, because if you thought well, if you still had faith in it, which we both did, we were so sure.
嗯，不过，这是有道理的，因为如果你想得好，如果你仍然相信它，我们都这么做了，我们就非常确定。
I remember, for the whole first year, thinking well, it's going to bounce back.
我记得，整个第一年，只要想得好，它就会反弹。
Well, the thing about those little investment chestnuts that they don't tell you is, for example, the buy and hold idea is premised on the theory that you've made a good decision in the first place.
嗯，关于那些他们没有告诉你的投资小栗子，例如，买入并持有的想法是以你一开始就做出了正确决定的理论为前提的。
So what went wrong?
那么到底出了什么问题呢？
I tried to reach the eight presidents of Fountain Fresh.
我试图联系福田鲜活的八位总裁。
Several, I couldn't find.
有好几个，没找到。
Others refused to talk on tape.
其他人拒绝在录音中讲话。
But here's what I was able to piece together from people inside the operation.
但这是我从行动内部人员那里拼凑出来的信息。
Explanation number one, the idea was actually bad.
第一个解释，这个想法实际上很糟糕。
One of the ex-presidents in Fountain Fresh told me that they never figured out a way to do the most basic thing any business has to do, make a profit.
Fountain Fresh 的一位前总裁告诉我，他们从未找到一种方法来完成任何企业必须做的最基本的事情，即盈利。
"Even if the machines dispensed soda all day long," he said, "they still wouldn't have sold enough product to cover their costs." And even worse, everyone agreed that the wrench guys never figured out how to make the dispenser work right.
“即使机器整天都在分发苏打水，”他说，“他们仍然无法售出足够的产品来支付成本。”更糟糕的是，每个人都认为扳手工从来没有弄清楚如何让分配器正常工作。
They never came up with a design that could be mass-produced.
他们从未想出可以批量生产的设计。
Here's Eric Gillette.
请听埃里克·吉列的报道。
When you actually looked at the guts of the machine, it kind of looked like tubes, and pipes, and parts, and it just was this jumble of technology.
当你真正看到机器的内部结构时，它看起来有点像管子、管道和零件，而且只是技术的混乱。
And there would always be dripping syrup coming out of these pipes.
而且总是有糖浆从这些管子里滴出来。
And it was just kind of, OK, what is this, and why is that dripping?
只是有点，好吧，这是什么，为什么会滴水？
[LAUGHTER] Eric Gillette And those kinds of conversations--
[笑声]埃里克·吉列还有那些类型的对话——
Why is that dripping is never a good question.
为什么会滴水从来都不是一个好问题。
[LAUGHS] Explanation number two, it wasn't supposed to succeed in the first place.
[笑]第二个解释，它一开始就不应该成功。
One of the biggest investors in Fountain Fresh was a man whose businesses were the subject of an August, 2000 Wall Street Journal article about overseas stock scams.
Fountain Fresh 最大的投资者之一是 2000 年 8 月《华尔街日报》一篇关于海外股票骗局的文章的主题，他的业务就是该人的业务。
He also financed the business that was the exclusive distributor for Fountain Fresh products.
他还资助了 Fountain Fresh 产品的独家经销商业务。
To do this, he issued millions of dollars in stock, but a special kind that can only be sold overseas and isn't subject to the same regulations and scrutiny that normal stocks are.
为此，他发行了价值数百万美元的股票，但这是一种只能在海外出售的特殊股票，并且不受与普通股票相同的监管和审查。
And the document he showed to these overseas investors told the story of Fountain Fresh.
而他向这些海外投资者展示的文件，讲述了方源鲜活的故事。
In a sense, this guy didn't need Fountain Fresh to succeed.
从某种意义上说，这家伙不需要Fountain Fresh就能成功。
He'd make his money whether it did or not.
不管有没有，他都会赚钱。
He only needed it to look like it could succeed.
他只需要它看起来能够成功。
He needed to tell a convincing story about the holy grail of the beverage industry and how these fancy consultants and designers could reach it so he could sell his $10 million in stock offerings to Australian, Filipino, and Korean versions of me and Shane.
他需要讲述一个令人信服的故事，讲述饮料行业的圣杯，以及这些出色的顾问和设计师如何实现这一目标，这样他就可以将他价值 1000 万美元的股票出售给澳大利亚、菲律宾和韩国版的我和肖恩。
He'd make his millions on the stock, not on the off-brand cola or Dr. Pepper.
他靠股票赚了数百万美元，而不是靠非品牌可乐或胡椒博士。
I couldn't locate him or his company to comment on any of this.
我找不到他或他的公司对此事发表评论。
If this was his plan, the guys in the factory and the suits at Doblin might never have even known about it.
如果这是他的计划，工厂里的人和多布林的工作人员可能永远不会知道这件事。
Explanation number three, random circumstance did it in.
解释三，随机情况造成的。
It turns out there are a lot of ways for a small company with a good idea to fail.
事实证明，一家拥有好创意的小公司有很多失败的原因。
Richard Maynes, the charismatic president who came on board in 1996, was, by many accounts, the glue holding Fountain Fresh together.
1996 年上任的富有魅力的总裁理查德·梅恩斯 (Richard Maynes) 在很多方面都被认为是将 Fountain Fresh 凝聚在一起的粘合剂。
He was from Salt Lake and could talk pipes with the guys in the shop, money with the guys on Wall Street, and theories of branding with the guys at Doblin, all with equal fluency.
他来自盐湖城，可以与商店里的人谈论管道，可以与华尔街的人谈论金钱，可以与多布林的人谈论品牌理论，所有这些都同样流利。
He was also a devout Mormon, and sometime in the summer of 1997, right around the time Shane and I bought into his company, the Church sent him to do missionary work.
他也是一名虔诚的摩门教徒，1997 年夏天的某个时候，就在我和谢恩入股他的公司的时候，教会派他去做传教工作。
Without him at the center, people say, the whole thing blew apart.
人们说，没有了他的中心，整个事情就分崩离析了。
I ran this notion by Shane.
我由谢恩提出了这个想法。
God is not on our side here.
上帝在这里并不站在我们这边。
Alex Blumberg God was not on our side.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格上帝并不站在我们这边。
If God is not on your side, how can you expect to make any money in the stock market?
如果上帝不站在你一边，你怎么能指望在股市里赚到钱呢？
Right.
正确的。
Shane We had no idea what we were doing.
肖恩 我们不知道自己在做什么。
We had no idea of what we were up against.
我们不知道我们面临的是什么。
The Fountain Fresh warehouse at 2030 Redwood Road in Salt Lake City now sits empty.
位于盐湖城红木路 2030 号的 Fountain Fresh 仓库现已空置。
It's on the same lot as a window cleaning company and a small metallurgical factory, but no one at either place seems to remember what used to be in the vacant warehouse next door.
它与一家窗户清洁公司和一家小型冶金工厂位于同一地段，但这两个地方似乎都没有人记得隔壁空置仓库里曾经有什么。
Fountain Fresh eventually got folded into another company which went quietly defunct.
Fountain Fresh 最终被并入另一家公司，该公司悄然倒闭。
It still exists on paper, but all that remains, physically, are a bunch of files in a storage locker somewhere in Solana Beach, California.
它仍然存在于纸面上，但实际上剩下的只是加利福尼亚州索拉纳海滩某处储物柜中的一堆文件。
I imagine it doesn't look too different in there than Shane's basement.
我想那里看起来和谢恩的地下室没有太大不同。
Alex Blumberg.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格。
[MUSIC - "I GOT PLENTY OF NOTHIN", BY SAMMY DAVIS, JR.]
[音乐 - “我一无所获”，作者：小萨米·戴维斯]
Act Three, The View From The Mop.
第三幕，拖把上的风景。
Well, so far on our program, we've heard from the middle-class, from the stock-owning class, and now we turn to the people making minimum wage.
到目前为止，在我们的计划中，我们已经听取了中产阶级、持股阶层的意见，现在我们转向领取最低工资的人。
About seven million Americans work at minimum wage, or near to it, right this minute.
目前大约有七百万美国人以最低工资或接近最低工资工作。
Two thirds of those people are not teenagers, by the way.
顺便说一句，其中三分之二的人不是青少年。
The Federal minimum is $5.15 per hour, which works out to under $11,000 per year.
联邦最低工资为每小时 5.15 美元，相当于每年不到 11,000 美元。
A guy who writes under the pen name Greg Tate wrote a book, which is really nothing more than a year by year account, one vignette after another, of things that happened to him in his minimum wage job as a janitor in a fast food burger place that, in the book, he calls The Burger Store.
一个用笔名格雷格·泰特（Greg Tate）写作的人写了一本书，这实际上只不过是一年又一年的记述，一个又一个的小插曲，讲述了他在一家快餐汉堡店担任看门人的最低工资工作中发生的事情，在书中，他称之为汉堡店。
All names in his book are changed.
他书中的所有名字都被更改了。
He worked there for 11 years.
他在那里工作了11年。
Justin Kaufman reads excerpts for us.
贾斯汀·考夫曼为我们朗读摘录。
It's September 7, 1985, my first day of working at The Burger Store as a janitor.
这是 1985 年 9 月 7 日，我第一天在 The Burger Store 担任看门人。
The first thing I had to do was clean the stairs.
我要做的第一件事就是清理楼梯。
1987, during August, everybody was trying to get rid of Ward, the store manager.
1987年8月，每个人都想摆脱商店经理沃德。
He played favorites.
他最喜欢玩。
He had Janie Mulder, Candy Rackson, and Samantha Corsman wrapped around his finger because they were good-looking.
他让珍妮·穆德 (Janie Mulder)、坎迪·拉克森 (Candy Rackson) 和萨曼莎·科斯曼 (Samantha Corsman) 缠在他的手指上，因为她们都很漂亮。
Bob Hopson was tired of the way Ward was doing things.
鲍勃·霍普森厌倦了沃德的做事方式。
Some time during August he sent the store office a letter.
八月的某个时候，他给商店办公室写了一封信。
The letter said, "My co-workers and I have a problem with Ward.
信中写道：“我和我的同事对沃德有意见。
He has the good-looking women wrapped around his finger.
他让漂亮的女人缠在他的手指上。
He does not treat the good workers fair.
他对好工人不公平。
Whenever the store runs out of product, we tell him right away.
每当商店缺货时，我们都会立即告诉他。
He says he's going to order it.
他说他要订购。
Then, as time goes by, we are still out of that certain product.
然后，随着时间的推移，我们仍然没有那种产品。
We tell him again, and he gets mad and says, "Why didn't you tell me?" I just feel Ward is not a good store manager.
我们再次告诉他，他生气了，说：“你为什么不告诉我？”我只是觉得沃德不是一个好的店长。
Sincerely, Concerned Employee." Bob had the letter typed, that way no one could detect his handwriting.
此致，关心的员工。”鲍勃把这封信打印出来，这样就没有人能看出他的笔迹。
The first week of June, night shift was leaving trash bags beside the dumpster.
六月的第一周，夜班将垃圾袋留在垃圾箱旁边。
Trash bags were supposed to be put inside the dumpster.
垃圾袋应该放在垃圾箱内。
Brett was pissed.
布雷特很生气。
He said he was going to leave a note on the dumpster.
他说他要在垃圾箱上留一张纸条。
I asked him what he was going to write.
我问他要写什么。
He said he was going to say, "Hey, you dumb asses.
他说他会说：“嘿，你们这些蠢驴。
Throw the trash bags in the dumpster." He never got to it, so I wrote that note.
把垃圾袋扔进垃圾箱。”他从来没有做到这一点，所以我写了那张纸条。
The note said, "Hey, you dumb asses.
纸条上写着：“嘿，你们这些蠢驴。
Trash bags go inside the dumpster, not beside it or behind it." The note worked for one night.
垃圾袋应放在垃圾箱内，而不是放在垃圾箱旁边或后面。”这张纸条工作了一晚上。
Night shift caused me one problem the third week of June.
六月的第三周，夜班给我带来了一个问题。
Someone punctured a carton of caramel sundae topping.
有人刺破了一盒焦糖圣代配料。
It leaked onto the shelf.
它漏到了架子上。
The puncture was caused by someone sticking a pen or a pencil into the carton.
刺破是由于有人将钢笔或铅笔插入纸箱造成的。
The puddle of sundae topping was about a foot and a half in diameter.
那一滩圣代冰淇淋的直径大约有一英尺半。
Of course, I had to clean it up.
当然，我必须把它清理干净。
1988, during the third week of June, Dave, Jaris, and Cody were in the basement having a conversation.
1988 年，六月的第三周，戴夫、贾里斯和科迪在地下室谈话。
Cody was eating a piece of bacon.
科迪正在吃一块培根。
Dave saw Ward coming downstairs, so Dave went back upstairs.
戴夫看到沃德下楼，于是戴夫又回到楼上。
Ward caught Cody eating the bacon.
沃德发现科迪正在吃培根。
That piece of bacon was going to be thrown away anyway, but according to Burger Store rules, eating expired food is considered stealing.
那块培根本来是要扔掉的，但是根据汉堡店的规定，吃过期的食物就属于偷窃。
Ward suspended Cody for a week.
沃德将科迪停职一周。
A few days later, Ken Beaker was on break.
几天后，肯·比克开始休息。
He had ordered a cheeseburger.
他点了一个芝士汉堡。
Actually, he was fixing himself a double cheeseburger.
事实上，他正在给自己做一个双层芝士汉堡。
Brenda Wiland caught him.
布伦达·维兰德抓住了他。
She told Ward Ken had paid for a cheeseburger not a double cheeseburger.
她告诉沃德肯支付的是一个芝士汉堡而不是双层芝士汉堡。
Ward fired him.
沃德解雇了他。
Earlier that week, Ward's car got egged.
那周早些时候，沃德的车遭到了鸡蛋袭击。
At the same time, Ward was giving Kerry Mullinger a hard time.
与此同时，沃德也让克里·穆林格 (Kerry Mullinger) 为难。
Well, the night of July 23rd Kerry worked and Ward didn't.
好吧，7 月 23 日晚上，克里工作了，沃德却没有。
Kerry had an idea.
克里想到了一个主意。
Kerry decided he would really get back at Ward.
克里决定他真的要回到沃德。
He put on the outside reader board, "Ward sucks." I thought that was so funny along with everybody else.
他在外面的读卡器上写着：“沃德很糟糕。”我和其他人一样觉得这很有趣。
The next morning, Ward found out what Kerry did.
第二天早上，沃德发现了克里的所作所为。
I heard Ward say to Mike, "Your job could be at stake if you don't tell me who put that on the reader board." Well, Ward got his information from Mike.
我听到沃德对迈克说：“如果你不告诉我是谁把它放在读者板上的，你的工作可能会受到威胁。”好吧，沃德从迈克那里得到了他的信息。
He then fired Kerry.
然后他解雇了克里。
A day later, I worked my 10th day in a row.
一天后，我连续工作了第十天。
Mark asked me how I was doing.
马克问我过得怎么样。
I said, "I'm tired."
我说：“我累了。”
On November 30th, Kip Durkowitz quit that day.
11 月 30 日，Kip Durkowitz 辞职了。
He told Ward that in his office.
他在办公室告诉沃德。
Ward said, "No. You can't quit.
沃德说：“不。你不能放弃。
We've got some busy times ahead and we need you." Kip said, "I quit." Ward got mad and said, "You're not quitting." and pushed Kip.
我们接下来会很忙，我们需要你。”基普说：“我辞职了。”沃德生气了，说道：“你不会放弃的。”并推了基普。
Kip, angry, said, "I quit." and punched Ward in the nose.
基普生气地说：“我辞职了。”并一拳打在沃德的鼻子上。
Ward landed in a chair.
沃德坐在椅子上。
Ward said to Kip, "You'll never work in Peddleton again." Two days later, Kip was working at the local pizza place.
沃德对基普说：“你再也不会在佩德尔顿工作了。”两天后，基普在当地的披萨店工作。
1989, during the first weekend in August there was a sign in the break room that said certain employees were going to get paid vacations.
1989 年，八月的第一个周末，休息室里挂着一块牌子，上面写着某些员工将获得带薪假期。
Well, come to find out, The Burger Store was not going to do that.
好吧，事实证明，汉堡店不会这么做。
Jay was pissed and wrote bull-- [BLEEP] on the sign.
杰伊很生气，在牌子上写下了“bull--[BLEEP]”。
The sign was taken down the next day.
第二天，这个牌子就被拆除了。
The next weekend, another sign appeared in the break room.
接下来的周末，休息室里出现了另一个标志。
This sign said employees should bow down to their managers.
这个标志表明员工应该向他们的经理鞠躬。
The next day, the sign was taken down.
第二天，这个牌子就被拆除了。
During mid-December, Darby was going out Trisha Bayland.
十二月中旬，达比 (Darby) 正在特丽莎·贝兰 (Trisha Bayland) 外出。
About a week later, Trisha no-showed and Darby wrote her down as a no-show.
大约一周后，特丽莎没有出现，达比将她记录为未出现。
Trisha found out about it and broke up with him.
特丽莎发现了这件事并与他分手了。
1990, in mid-June, the restrooms flooded.
1990年6月中旬，厕所被淹。
The drains had been stopped up.
排水沟已被堵塞。
I put out of order signs on both restroom doors.
我在两个卫生间的门上都贴上了故障标志。
Customers were still going in the restrooms.
顾客仍在去洗手间。
It was obvious they couldn't read English, so I put signs on both restroom doors that said, "Toilettes fermee." That means toilet closed in French.
很明显他们看不懂英语，所以我在两个卫生间的门上都贴了标语，上面写着“Toilettes fermee”。这在法语中是“厕所关闭”的意思。
Surprisingly those signs kept the customers out of the restrooms.
令人惊讶的是，这些标志使顾客无法进入洗手间。
1992, in late September, it was 12:45.
1992年，九月下旬，中午12点45分。
I was supposed to get off work at 1:00.
我原本应该在 1:00 下班。
Celia Brothing comes up to me and says, "Tony said for you to do the dishes right now." That was not my job.
西莉亚·布罗辛走过来对我说：“托尼让你现在就洗碗。”那不是我的工作。
I was so pissed off.
我很生气。
It was almost 2:00 before I could get off work.
等我下班的时候已经快2:00了。
When I got home, I grabbed my shirt and ripped it to shreds.
当我回到家时，我抓起我的衬衫并将其撕成碎片。
It was OK.
没关系。
I had another shirt.
我还有另一件衬衫。
During the later part of the first week of April, Carlton Jebbards threw a cup of Dr. Pepper at Lisa Jillard.
四月第一周的下旬，卡尔顿·杰巴兹（Carlton Jebbards）向丽莎·吉拉德（Lisa Jillard）扔了一杯 Dr. Pepper 咖啡。
The next day, Carlton asked Lisa for a date.
第二天，卡尔顿向丽莎提出约会。
Lisa, of course, turns him down.
丽莎当然拒绝了他。
About two weeks after Thanksgiving, I did not go on break until 11:00.
感恩节过后大约两周，我直到11:00才休息。
I got called off my break twice to help them out.
为了帮助他们，我两次被叫停休息。
I wound up having to get ice for the front counter.
我最后不得不去前台买冰块。
You talk about being pissed off.
你谈论的是生气。
I went downstairs and ripped my shirt to shreds.
我下楼，把衬衫撕成碎片。
It was OK.
没关系。
I had another shirt hanging in the break room.
我的休息室里还挂着另一件衬衫。
In early September, Devon returns to The Burger Store after a year and a half absence.
九月初，Devon 在阔别一年半后重返 The Burger Store。
The moment Devon came back, he would act all crazy.
德文一回来，就表现得很疯狂。
Whenever we loaded truck, he would put wrestling moves on boxes.
每当我们装卡车时，他都会在箱子上放摔跤动作。
Devon would say, "Hulk Hogan off the ropes.
德文郡会说：“绿巨人霍根脱离了绳索。
Boot to the head." I remember, one time, Devon power bombed an empty shortening container six times.
引导到头部。”我记得有一次，德文郡电力公司对一个空的起酥油容器进行了六次轰炸。
When the truck driver threw plastic wrapping off the truck, Devon would wad the plastic wrapping up and drop back to pass.
当卡车司机把塑料包装从卡车上扔下来时，德文郡会把塑料包装卷起来，然后掉回去。
He would pass the plastic wrapping to himself, then he would run about 40 yards and say, "Touchdown!" He would sometimes take Leah's hand and start dancing with her.
他会把塑料包装纸递给自己，然后他会跑大约 40 码并说：“达阵！”有时他会拉着莉亚的手和她一起跳舞。
While he was dancing with Leah, he would sing Strangers in the Night .
当他和莉亚跳舞时，他会唱《夜里的陌生人》。
Devon had me laughing so hard I practically had tears in my eyes.
德文郡让我笑得很厉害，我的眼里几乎含着泪水。
There was never a dull moment when Devon was around.
当德文在身边的时候，从来没有一个沉闷的时刻。
A few days later, Dobey and I got to talking.
几天后，多比和我开始交谈。
He said he had heard of me.
他说他听说过我。
I told him I had been at The Burger Store for nine years too long.
我告诉他我在汉堡店已经呆了九年了。
He said, "No, you haven't." I said, "Oh, yes, I have." He said, "No, you haven't." I, angry, said, "Oh, yes I have." He said nothing else.
他说：“不，你没有。”我说：“哦，是的，我有。”他说：“不，你没有。”我生气地说：“哦，是的，我有。”他没有再说什么。
1995, in May, the pipe that had been leaking since 1986 finally got fixed.
1995年5月，自1986年以来一直漏水的管道终于修好了。
Before I get to my last day, I would like to tell you all the things that happened over the years, over, and over, again.
在我的最后一天到来之前，我想一遍又一遍地告诉你们这些年来发生的所有事情。
Night shift would always wash the grill towels and the regular towels together.
夜班总是将烧烤毛巾和普通毛巾一起清洗。
That was a no-no. Wayne would continue to drop things.
这是一个禁忌。韦恩会继续丢东西。
He would make mess after mess.
他会弄得一团又一团乱。
Sometimes he was called butter fingers.
有时他被称为黄油手指。
Certain people got away with certain things.
某些人逃脱了某些事情。
A lot of times Judd would stand out at the back sidewalk.
很多时候贾德都会站在后面的人行道上。
He would drink coffee and smoke a cigarette.
他会喝咖啡、抽烟。
I know he made $9 or $10 an hour.
我知道他每小时赚 9 美元或 10 美元。
One time I said to myself I wish I had a job like that.
有一次我对自己说我希望我有一份这样的工作。
My last day, June 12th, was finally here.
我的最后一天，6月12日，终于到了。
Everything went really well that day, although Eva said something to me that I didn't like.
那天一切都很顺利，尽管伊娃对我说了一些我不喜欢的话。
She said, "Greg, I think you're making a mistake by quitting." I told her the mistake would be for me to stay here.
她说：“格雷格，我认为你退出是个错误。”我告诉她，我留在这里是错误的。
I was getting nowhere working at The Burger Store.
我在汉堡店工作一事无成。
1:00pm arrived.
下午 1:00 到达。
It was the end of an era.
这是一个时代的结束。
The sad thing was, when I left, I was only making $5.85 an hour.
可悲的是，当我离开时，我每小时只能赚 5.85 美元。
About two weeks after I quit, The Burger Store started hiring people at $6 an hour.
我辞职后大约两周，The Burger Store 开始以每小时 6 美元的价格招聘员工。
A few people said that my quitting had nothing to do with Mark starting people at $6 an hour.
有几个人说我的辞职与马克以每小时 6 美元的工资开始工作无关。
My quitting had everything to do with it.
我的辞职与此有很大关系。
Mark would never pay me $6 an hour even after I had been there 11 years, 9 months and 5 days.
即使我已经在那里工作了 11 年零 9 个月零 5 天，马克也不会支付我每小时 6 美元。
The book is titled, 11 Years, 9 Months and 5 Days.
这本书的名字是《11年9个月零5天》。
Justin Kaufman read excerpts for us.
贾斯汀·考夫曼为我们朗读了摘录。
The author goes under the pen name, Greg Tate.
作者的笔名是格雷格·泰特。
This book was self-published on xlibris.com.
这本书是在 xlibris.com 上自行出版的。
He now works as a janitor and maintenance worker at an elementary school.
他现在在一所小学担任清洁工和维修工。
He makes almost twice as much as he did before, though he says the politics of the school are as tough as at The Burger Store.
他的收入几乎是以前的两倍，尽管他说学校的政治和汉堡店一样严厉。
[MUSIC - "SUPPLY & DEMAND" BY THE HIVES]
[音乐-蜂巢的“供给与需求”]
Well, our program was produced today by Wendy Dorr and myself with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Dave Kestenbaum, and Starlee Kine.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由温迪·多尔和我与亚历克斯·布隆伯格、黛安·库克、戴夫·凯斯滕鲍姆和斯塔莉·凯恩共同制作的。
Senior Producer: Julie Snyder.
高级制片人：朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Katie O'Donnell, Kelsey Dilts, and Todd Bachmann.
凯蒂·奥唐纳 (Katie O'Donnell)、凯尔西·迪尔茨 (Kelsey Dilts) 和托德·巴赫曼 (Todd Bachmann) 为制作提供帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org, where you can listen to our programs for free or buy CDs of them.
[鸣谢] 我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中免费收听我们的节目或购买其中的 CD。
Or you know you can download audio of our program at audible.com/thisamericanlife, where they have public radio programs, bestselling books, even the New York Times, all at audible.com.
或者您知道您可以在 audible.com/thisamericanlife 下载我们节目的音频，那里有公共广播节目、畅销书，甚至纽约时报，所有这些都在 audible.com 上。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 监督。
We all asked him if we could have this weekend off, work five days this week instead of seven.
我们都问他这个周末是否可以休息，本周工作五天而不是七天。
His reply.
他的答复。
You're not willing to work?
你不愿意工作吗？
I don't know anything to call that but lazy.
除了懒惰，我不知道该怎么称呼它。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "SUPPLY & DEMAND" BY THE HIVES]
[音乐-蜂巢的“供给与需求”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。