234: Say Anything - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #234 | June 16, 2017 234: Say Anything Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 234 集 | 2017 年 6 月 16 日 234：畅所欲言 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass So Neil Chesanow, do you have a copy of your book, Please Read This for Me, there with you?
序言 Ira Glass 那么 Neil Chesanow，你有一本你的书《请为我读一下》吗？
Yes, I do, right in my greasy little claw.
是的，我愿意，就在我油腻的小爪子里。
Perfect.
完美的。
Can I ask you to open up just to the opening page of the preface to read from the preface?
我可以请您打开序言的开头页来阅读序言吗？
"When you have something very important but really tough to tell the man in your life, wouldn't it be great if you could just reach for a book that starts the conversation for you?
“当你有一些非常重要但又很难告诉你生命中的人的事情时，如果你能找到一本可以为你开启对话的书，不是很好吗？
Imagine being able to turn to the appropriate page, give an open book to the man you love, and ask, 'Please read this for me.' 'What is it?' 'Just read it, OK?
想象一下，能够翻到相应的页面，给你爱的人一本打开的书，然后问：“请为我读一下这本书。” “那是什么？” ‘读一下，好吗？
Page 73.
第 73 页。
It's only a few lines.'
只有几行。
Once the man you love has the book in his hands, a glance will do the job.
一旦你爱的人手里拿着这本书，看一眼就可以了。
Each page is an emotional telegram."
每一页都是一封情感电报。”
Neil Chesanow's book is now long out of print.
尼尔·切萨诺 (Neil Chesanow) 的书现已绝版。
But back in the 1980s, when it was published, it represented, I think, a kind of utopian endgame for what self-help books could accomplish.
但在 20 世纪 80 年代，当它出版时，我认为它代表了自助书籍所能实现的一种乌托邦结局。
Instead of explaining in a general way how you should handle this situation or that situation in your life, the book, Please Read This to Me, cut to the chase, went to the next logical step.
《请读这个给我听》这本书并没有以一般的方式解释你应该如何处理生活中的这种情况或那种情况，而是切入主题，进入了下一个逻辑步骤。
It actually gave you a script.
它实际上给了你一个脚本。
You're in this situation?
你是这种情况吗？
Say this.
说这个。
Here are the actual words you can use to kick off the conversation you need to have.
以下是您可以用来开始您需要进行的对话的实际单词。
I tried to come up with a book that would not just tell you how to communicate, but actually spark conversation.
我试图写一本不仅能告诉你如何沟通，还能真正激发对话的书。
Let me just read some of these titles to give people a sense of what some of these are like.
让我读一下其中的一些标题，让人们了解其中一些是什么样的。
Page 111, "It's time to admit you don't have a drinking problem.
第 111 页，“是时候承认您没有饮酒问题了。
You're an alcoholic." Page 82, "You act like Cary Grant in public and Archie Bunker at home." Page 134, "I think about marriage all the time." Page 148, "Maybe I'm not ready to have a baby." Page 136, "You'd probably prefer if I were an orphan." Let me ask you to read the one on page 135.
你是个酒鬼。”第 82 页，“你在公共场合表现得像加里·格兰特，在家里表现得像阿奇·邦克。”第134页，“我一直在考虑婚姻。”第148页，“也许我还没准备好要孩子。”第 136 页，“如果我是个孤儿，你可能会更喜欢。”让我请您阅读第 135 页上的内容。
OK.
好的。
This one is entitled, "It could be that I'm falling out of love." A difficult subject.
这篇文章的标题是“我可能已经失恋了”。一个困难的话题。
"Once I thought I loved you.
“曾经我以为我爱你。
Now I'm not so sure.
现在我不太确定了。
Yes, we've changed over time, but that's only part of it.
是的，随着时间的推移，我们已经发生了变化，但这只是其中的一部分。
I feel confused.
我感到很困惑。
I don't know what I feel.
我不知道我的感受。
One minute I say to myself, stick it out.
一分钟我对自己说，坚持下去。
Make it work.
让它发挥作用。
Don't be a quitter.
不要成为一个放弃者。
And I feel guilty.
我感到内疚。
It's not in my power to change you.
我没有能力改变你。
That much I've learned.
我学到的就这么多。
So I'm giving some serious thought to the only alternative left that I can think of-- a trial separation.
所以我正在认真考虑我能想到的唯一选择——尝试分居。
If you have another suggestion, I'd like to hear it."
如果你还有其他建议，我想听听。”
Over and over in this book, Chesanow and his co-author, Gareth Esersky, take some of the most painful situations that people can have with each other and give surprisingly graceful one-minute speeches that a person could say or write or show to somebody else.
在这本书中，切萨诺夫和他的合著者加雷斯·埃瑟斯基（Gareth Esersky）一遍又一遍地描述了人们彼此之间可能遇到的一些最痛苦的情况，并给出了令人惊讶的优雅的一分钟演讲，一个人可以向别人说、写或展示。
There are a dozen about problems that people might have together in bed.
人们在床上可能会遇到很多问题。
10 are about dealing with each other as friends.
10 是关于像朋友一样对待彼此。
10 are about the fights that couples have over money.
10 是关于夫妻因金钱而发生的争吵。
One of the entries even ends with the sentence, "Let's become husband and wife." All of these are written for women because, Chesanow says, men don't buy these books.
其中一篇甚至以“我们成为夫妻吧”作为结尾。切萨诺说，所有这些书都是为女性写的，因为男性不会买这些书。
We specifically interviewed women to come up with the most difficult kinds of subjects to discuss.
我们专门采访了女性，以提出最难讨论的话题。
I'd be happy to.
我很乐意。
Ira Glass Let me ask you to read on page 105.
Ira Glass 让我请您阅读第 105 页。
This one is titled, "Let's Get Religion." "There's something missing in our lives.
这个标题是“让我们获得宗教”。 “我们的生活中缺少了一些东西。
We're so focused on relating to each other that we've overlooked an important aspect of relating to our world.
我们如此专注于彼此的联系，以至于忽略了与我们的世界联系的一个重要方面。
I'm talking about religion, spirituality, God.
我说的是宗教、灵性、上帝。
A belief in God and a spiritual life can add--"
对上帝的信仰和精神生活可以增加——”
When you read one of these after another, the book as a whole seems to have this almost touching faith in the idea that getting the words right might actually solve something or help something.
当你读完其中一本又一本之后，整本书似乎都抱有一种近乎感人的信念，即正确的用词实际上可能会解决某些问题或有所帮助。
But of course, if you want religion in your life and your partner doesn't, or if you think you've fallen out of love, or if you don't want a baby and your spouse does, I've got to say, your main problem is not what words to use.
但是当然，如果你想要生活中的宗教而你的伴侣不想要，或者如果你认为你已经失去了爱情，或者如果你不想要孩子而你的配偶想要，我必须说，你的主要问题不是使用什么词语。
Your main problem is the situation itself.
你的主要问题是情况本身。
Neil Chesanow says that plenty of times he heard from women who used the words in the book and it didn't fix the problem.
尼尔·切萨诺（Neil Chesanow）表示，他多次听到女性使用书中的词语，但这并没有解决问题。
So there may not be magic words.
所以可能不存在魔法词。
There aren't always magic words, but sometimes that in itself becomes something vital for a woman to understand.
并不总是有魔力的词语，但有时这些词语本身就成为女性必须理解的重要内容。
Now she can tell herself, well, I really have given it my best shot.
现在她可以告诉自己，好吧，我真的已经尽力了。
This message in Please Read This for Me really sums up my feelings.
请为我阅读此消息中的这条消息确实概括了我的感受。
He's still not willing to respond.
他还是不愿意回应。
I think we're reaching one of those landmark moments where we have to decide whether we want to go on or not.
我认为我们正在达到那些具有里程碑意义的时刻之一，我们必须决定是否要继续下去。
Which brings us to today's radio program.
这就引出了今天的广播节目。
Today, during this week in which talking is failing on an international level, from Washington and Moscow to Paris and Baghdad, we bring you stories that ask the question, what is talking good for, anyway?
今天，在从华盛顿和莫斯科到巴黎和巴格达的国际层面上对话失败的这一周，我们为您带来的故事提出了这样的问题：无论如何，对话有什么好处？
When does it work?
什么时候起作用？
When doesn't it work?
什么时候不起作用？
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our program today in four acts.
我们今天的节目分为四幕。
Act One, How to Write a Note.
第一幕，如何写笔记。
In that act, a guy who thinks that words and reason might help his friend from trying to hurt himself.
在那一行为中，一个人认为言语和理由可能会帮助他的朋友避免伤害自己。
Act Two, The Battle of Words Versus Fear.
第二幕，言语与恐惧的较量。
In that act, one man decides to conquer his fears by listing them, all of them, one after another, all 183 of them.
在这一行为中，一个人决定通过列出所有恐惧来克服自己的恐惧，一个又一个，全部 183 个。
Act Three, When a City Opens Its Big Mouth.
第三幕，当一座城市张开大嘴时。
The story of just how easy-- how astonishingly easy-- it is to get people of all ages and races and economic levels to open up and chat.
这个故事讲述了让各个年龄段、种族和经济水平的人们敞开心扉聊天是多么容易——多么简单得惊人。
You just need three little words.
你只需要三个小词。
Act Four, Wedding Bells and Telephone Bells.
第四幕，婚礼钟声和电话铃声。
In that act, Jonathan Goldstein and Liz Gilbert bring us stories of words failing-- in one case, in the worst wedding toast that any of us has ever heard of occurring at a real wedding.
在那一幕中，乔纳森·戈尔茨坦和莉兹·吉尔伯特给我们带来了言语失败的故事——其中一个例子是我们在真正的婚礼上听说过的最糟糕的婚礼祝酒词。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
This first story on our show today is unusual.
我们今天节目中的第一个故事很不寻常。
It wasn't originally made to be broadcast on any radio show.
它最初并不是为了在任何广播节目中播出而制作的。
It was a tape made by somebody who had never put anything together for radio.
这是一盘由从未为广播制作过任何东西的人制作的磁带。
He made it to give to a friend.
他做这个是为了送给朋友。
Here's what happened.
事情是这样的。
Back in July of 1999, Jake Warga heard that somebody who he was close to in college, his friend Brian, tried to kill himself.
早在 1999 年 7 月，杰克·瓦尔加 (Jake Warga) 就听说他在大学时很亲近的人、他的朋友布莱恩 (Brian) 试图自杀。
Jake went out to visit Brian and he took with him this little MiniDisc recorder that he had just bought for himself that had this little clip-on microphone.
杰克出去拜访布莱恩，他随身带着他刚为自己买的这个小型迷你光盘录音机，里面有一个夹式麦克风。
During his visit with Brian, they recorded this long conversation they had.
在他拜访布莱恩期间，他们记录了这段漫长的谈话。
And then when Jake got home, he decided to edit this down and give it to Brian as a present.
然后，当杰克回到家时，他决定将其编辑下来并将其作为礼物送给布莱恩。
He had no idea how to actually edit sound or do anything like that, so at some point, he jumped onto the internet and found a website-- a website, actually, that we've mentioned on our show in the past, called transom.org that teaches beginners how to edit and mix audio with links to free editing software.
他不知道如何实际编辑声音或做类似的事情，所以在某个时候，他跳到互联网上并找到了一个网站——实际上，我们过去在节目中提到过的一个网站，名为 transom.org，它教初学者如何编辑和混合音频，并提供免费编辑软件的链接。
And Jake put together this story you're about to hear.
杰克整理了这个你将要听到的故事。
And he sent it to Brian.
他将其发送给布莱恩。
His hope was that if Brian heard this tape, heard himself talking, heard his own words, it might convince him that he shouldn't try to kill himself again.
他希望，如果布莱恩听到这盘录音带，听到自己说话，听到自己的话，这可能会让他相信他不应该再次尝试自杀。
That didn't work.
那行不通。
Here's the tape that Jake put together.
这是杰克整理的磁带。
Last year, my friend Brian tried to commit suicide.
去年，我的朋友布莱恩试图自杀。
He had checked himself into a new hotel that runs alongside the interstate, which happens to pass through the small college town in which he lives.
他入住了一家新酒店，该酒店位于州际公路旁，而州际公路恰好穿过他居住的小大学城。
And without ceremony or note-writing, he took a combination of drugs he thought sufficient enough to quietly end his life.
他没有举行仪式，也没有写便条，就服用了他认为足以安静结束生命的药物组合。
As people often do, Brian and I started getting lazy about communicating after I left college and moved out of that same college town.
正如人们经常做的那样，在我离开大学并搬出同一个大学城后，布莱恩和我开始懒于沟通。
Emails became rare, and phone calls rarer.
电子邮件变得越来越少，电话也越来越少。
After the longest period yet of not hearing from Brian, I got a call from an old mutual friend of ours asking if I had seen or heard from him.
在很长一段时间没有收到布莱恩的消息后，我接到了我们共同的一位老朋友的电话，询问我是否见过他或收到过他的消息。
I said I had not.
我说我没有。
We made calls and eventually found him safe in the hospital.
我们拨打了电话，最终发现他安全地在医院。
A few weeks later, I arranged a visit to see how my old school-- and Brian-- had changed in the years I had been away.
几周后，我安排了一次访问，看看我的母校和布莱恩在我离开的这些年里发生了怎样的变化。
And when I came to visit, we sat for three hours on a park bench late one summer night.
当我来参观时，一个夏夜的深夜，我们在公园的长椅上坐了三个小时。
He was still in the process of piecing together exactly what had happened.
他仍在拼凑到底发生了什么。
This is Brian.
这是布莱恩.
Let's talk about you.
我们来谈谈你吧。
Brian There's not much to talk about.
布莱恩 没什么好说的。
You were going to go to the hospital today, right?
今天本来是要去医院的吧？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I did.
我做到了。
Yeah.
是的。
The woman in the records department made a photocopy of my medical records from when I got admitted, and there wasn't anything too surprising or anything in there.
档案部门的那位女士复印了我入院时的病历，里面没有什么太令人惊讶的事情。
But it was still interesting to read.
但读起来仍然很有趣。
But they said I was discovered at approximately 6:00 PM.
但他们说我是在下午 6:00 左右被发现的。
I guess this was the next day.
我猜这是第二天。
They waited so long?
他们等了这么久？
Brian Yeah.
布莱恩 是的。
Because I should have checked out around noon, I guess.
因为我想我应该在中午左右退房。
But they said I was unconscious and unresponsive.
但他们说我失去知觉，没有反应。
I was reading the paramedics report.
我正在阅读护理人员的报告。
I was pale, cold, and clammy, and I was breathing only six respirations per minute, which is very slow.
我脸色苍白、寒冷、湿冷，每分钟呼吸只有六次，非常缓慢。
And they said they found pill bottles and a bottle of alcohol in the room.
他们说他们在房间里发现了药瓶和一瓶酒。
And they cleared my airway and started administering oxygen.
他们清理了我的呼吸道并开始给我吸氧。
Then they gave me a 2 milliliters IV of something called Narcan, which is an antidote for opiates like morphine.
然后他们给我注射了 2 毫升静脉注射麻醉剂，这是吗啡等阿片类药物的解毒剂。
I think it would have.
我想会有的。
And I mean, maybe I didn't take enough because morphine is very serious.
我的意思是，也许我服用的剂量不够，因为吗啡的作用非常严重。
It's very hard core.
这是非常硬核的。
It's very easy to OD on it.
很容易对其进行 OD。
(JOKINGLY) It's hard core, man.
（开玩笑地）这是硬核，伙计。
And I guess it was really late that night or even early the next morning when I guess they were about to transfer me, and I woke up.
我想那天晚上已经很晚了，甚至第二天早上我想他们要转移我的时候，我就醒了。
And the attendant who wrote this report said that I said I was disappointed to be alive and that I had passed out before I could take the morphine.
写这份报告的服务员说，我说我对自己还活着感到失望，而且我还没来得及服用吗啡就昏倒了。
And that part I do remember really vaguely.
那部分我确实记得很模糊。
I remember waking up and feeling the nasal cannula in my nose giving me oxygen and seeing that IV bottle hovering over me.
我记得醒来时感觉鼻子里的鼻插管在给我输送氧气，并看到静脉注射瓶在我上方盘旋。
And the guy asked me, kind of sarcastically it sounded, so are you glad to be alive?
那个人问我，听起来有点讽刺，所以你很高兴还活着吗？
And I'm pretty sure I remember saying no.
我很确定我记得我说过不。
Brian doesn't have that many friends.
布莱恩没有那么多朋友。
He's good-looking and funny, yet something inside prevents him from being confident in social skills.
他长得很帅，也很有趣，但内心深处的某些东西让他对社交技能缺乏信心。
For example, it took a long time in our friendship before he told me, and I felt confident in asking, about his biological mother.
例如，我们的友谊花了很长时间他才告诉我，我有信心询问他的亲生母亲。
He told me she died when he was young, that she had committed suicide.
他告诉我她在他年轻的时候就死了，她是自杀的。
His father remarried soon after and raised Brian and his brother, who is now a doctor.
他的父亲不久后再婚，并抚养布莱恩和他的兄弟，他现在是一名医生。
Although, there seemed to be some incongruities with the reports.
不过，这些报道似乎存在一些不一致的地方。
I guess those paramedics and hospital staff can really hastily fill stuff out.
我想那些护理人员和医院工作人员真的可以匆忙填写信息。
They can really take a lot of license.
他们确实可以获得很多许可证。
My own mom's coroner's report was really-- it had some gross inconsistencies in it, or errors.
我妈妈的验尸官的报告确实存在一些严重的不一致或错误。
My brother says coroners often just make stuff up if they can't find certain causes, like cause of death, I guess.
我哥哥说，如果验尸官找不到某些原因，比如死因，我猜他们通常就会编造一些东西。
Were you hoping to find similarities between your mom's report and your report?
您是否希望找到您妈妈的报告和您的报告之间的相似之处？
Oh, no. I hadn't really thought of that.
哦，不。我真的没有想到这一点。
I brought her up just because they made some errors on hers, just like they had with mine.
我抚养她只是因为他们在她身上犯了一些错误，就像他们对我的错误一样。
But with me, I don't think it was anything really major.
但对我来说，我认为这并不是什么大事。
About a week prior to this interview, Brian was arrested in San Francisco for possession of narcotics.
大约在接受采访前一周，布莱恩因持有毒品在旧金山被捕。
Brian does not use drugs or alcohol.
布莱恩不吸毒也不酗酒。
He had gone to the same bad part of town to buy the same drugs with the intent of trying again.
他去镇上同样糟糕的地方买了同样的毒品，打算再试一次。
I asked him about this trip to San Francisco.
我向他询问了这次旧金山之旅的情况。
What were you doing there?
你在那儿做什么？
Brian Same thing.
布莱恩同样的事情。
But it didn't work before.
但之前没用。
Brian I'm too much of a wimp to try other things, like other things that might be more violent but less immediate.
布莱恩，我太懦弱了，不敢尝试其他事情，比如其他可能更暴力但不那么直接的事情。
I don't like violence in practice.
我不喜欢实践中的暴力。
I've read that suicide is a selfish act, yet I have never really thought of Brian as selfish.
我读到自杀是一种自私的行为，但我从未真正认为布莱恩是自私的。
But I can understand why the relatives of suicide victims might go through that angry phase, that phase when they place the blame on the person who killed themselves to help with any feelings of guilt they might have.
但我可以理解为什么自杀受害者的亲属可能会经历那个愤怒的阶段，在这个阶段，他们将责任归咎于自杀者，以减轻他们可能产生的内疚感。
I asked Brian if he thought what he did was selfish.
我问布莱恩是否认为自己所做的事情很自私。
I say it's selfish in the same sense that going to a therapist is selfish.
我说这是自私，就像去看治疗师是自私一样。
You have a problem and you're doing something about it.
你遇到了问题，并且正在采取一些措施来解决它。
You're doing something about it in the way you feel like coping with it.
你正在以你喜欢的方式去做一些事情。
I don't think, in the end, people should live for other people.
我不认为人最终应该为别人而活。
They should really live for themselves, just like you shouldn't go to school for a decade to become a doctor or a lawyer or whatever just because your parents want you to be that because you want to do what your parents want you to do.
他们应该真正为自己而活，就像你不应该上十年学去成为一名医生或律师或其他什么只是因为你的父母希望你成为那样，因为你想做你父母希望你做的事情。
You should live your life as you want, as you see fit.
你应该按照自己的意愿，按照自己认为合适的方式生活。
And it doesn't necessarily mean you haven't considered other people's reactions.
这并不一定意味着您没有考虑其他人的反应。
It just means that maybe you have and you've decided that, unfortunately, you still want to go forward with it.
这只是意味着，也许你已经决定了，不幸的是，你仍然想继续下去。
I don't want to spend the rest of my life alive and miserable just because someone else doesn't want me to die.
我不想仅仅因为别人不想让我死，就让我的余生过得痛苦不堪。
I don't see much sense to that.
我认为这没有多大意义。
In an effort to catch up on letter-writing, Brian would occasionally write long emails filled with wit, humor, and sometimes desperation.
为了赶上写信的进度，布莱恩偶尔会写长篇电子邮件，充满智慧、幽默，有时甚至是绝望。
He's an excellent writer.
他是一位出色的作家。
I asked him why he didn't write a suicide note.
我问他为什么不写遗书。
I'll admit that was rather selfish.
我承认这是相当自私的。
I know that people were wondering what the heck is up.
我知道人们想知道到底发生了什么。
I could have sat down for probably what would have been several hours to type something up.
我本来可以坐下来大概花几个小时来输入一些东西。
At that point in time, I was just very fed up and impatient and just I wanted it all to end.
那时，我感到非常厌倦和不耐烦，我希望这一切都能结束。
I just didn't want to screw around with anything else.
我只是不想再去搞别的事了。
I could've also cleaned my room first, too.
我也可以先打扫我的房间。
As we were talking, an ambulance passed by in no particular hurry.
正当我们说话的时候，一辆救护车不紧不慢地驶过。
There's what I probably rode in.
这就是我可能骑过的东西。
It cost over $800 to be transported from--
运输成本超过 800 美元——
A few blocks?
几个街区？
Brian Yeah.
布莱恩 是的。
According to their time table, it took them eight minutes to get from there to there.
根据他们的时间表，他们从那里到那里需要八分钟。
I guess that's pretty far.
我想那还很远。
Brian Yeah, that's an appreciable distance, I guess.
布莱恩：是的，我想这是一个相当大的距离。
It's worth eight minutes.
值得八分钟。
2 milligrams, 2 tiny milligrams of Narcan opiate antidote is $6.
2 毫克，2 微毫克的纳洛酮阿片解毒剂售价 6 美元。
As I write this, I wonder if I'm making Brian's note for him.
当我写这篇文章时，我想知道我是否正在为布莱恩做笔记。
Am I documenting this story for him, or for whom he might leave behind?
我是在为他记录这个故事，还是为他可能留下的人记录这个故事？
This was not the first time he tried committing suicide, and, in light of his recent arrest, not his last.
这不是他第一次尝试自杀，而且鉴于他最近被捕，这也不是他最后一次。
Do you think you found the only way to cope?
你认为你找到了唯一的应对方法吗？
The only viable way, so to speak.
可以说，唯一可行的方法。
I don't get the impression most people are that happy, anyway.
无论如何，我不认为大多数人都那么高兴。
They just grind their way through life.
他们只是在生活中磨练自己的方式。
They'll have kids, and that'll give them an artificial reason to live for a while.
他们会有孩子，这会给他们一个活下去一段时间的人为理由。
And then the kids grow up and forget about them.
然后孩子们长大了，就忘记了他们。
I know the mind is a really powerful thing.
我知道心灵是一个非常强大的东西。
People can do just about anything they really put their minds to, but it also takes a tremendous amount of self-motivation.
人们几乎可以做任何他们真正想做的事情，但这也需要巨大的自我激励。
As my therapist says, it has to come from within, and it doesn't feel like there's much within.
正如我的治疗师所说，它必须来自内部，而且感觉内部并不多。
I was brought up in a Protestant family as a Lutheran, and I haven't renounced that faith.
我是在一个路德教新教家庭长大的，我并没有放弃这种信仰。
I just feel I've stumbled in a big way, and I haven't gotten up or haven't been able to get up.
我只觉得自己摔了个大跤，还没有爬起来或者说爬不起来。
And I'm hoping that I'll just go to heaven after I die.
我希望死后能去天堂。
But of course, there is a lingering fear of hell because it's not a-- it's highly stigmatized, suicide.
但当然，人们对地狱有一种挥之不去的恐惧，因为这不是一种被高度污名化的自杀。
But I don't think I believe in sins that are, what do you call them?
但我不认为我相信那些罪，你怎么称呼它们？
Cardinal.
红衣主教。
Yeah.
是的。
I think it's just another kind of sin.
我认为这只是另一种罪过。
My cousin, Amy, who's an atheist, told me that her dad, who's a Lutheran minister, told her that, if you kill yourself, you go to hell because you're not alive to repent and ask forgiveness for that sin.
我的表弟艾米是一位无神论者，她告诉我，她的父亲是一名路德教会牧师，他告诉她，如果你自杀，你就会下地狱，因为你无法活着悔改并请求宽恕。
So therefore, since you have not repented for that sin, you'll go to hell.
因此，既然你还没有悔改这个罪，你就会下地狱。
And I think that's ridiculous.
我认为这很荒谬。
Just think of all the sins you haven't repented for in your life, even if you tried to.
想想你一生中所有的罪孽，即使你试图悔改，也没有悔改。
I know you haven't tried to, but-- so I do have a fear of dying, but it doesn't always outweigh my other fears or my other--
我知道你没有尝试过，但是——所以我确实害怕死亡，但它并不总是超过我的其他恐惧或我的其他——
After sitting at a park bench for so long, and after Brian confessed to having talked more than he ever has, we were more than overdue for a stretch.
在公园的长椅上坐了这么久之后，布莱恩也承认自己说话比以往任何时候都多，我们早就该休息了。
And after a while of walking around aimlessly, we picked up our old habit of trainspotting and penny-smashing.
漫无目的地走了一段时间后，我们又养成了猜火车和砸钱的老习惯。
You're taking it slow.
你慢慢来吧
Brian I probably shouldn't run with this thing.
布莱恩，我可能不应该带着这个东西跑。
I don't know if I can record while being jostled.
不知道能不能一边挤一边录音。
We are now running to try to catch the train.
我们现在正跑着试图赶上火车。
We're running past lions.
我们正在跑过狮子。
We're now up on the tracks.
我们现在已经走上正轨了。
Here come the lights.
灯光来了。
At this point, Brian and I are running alongside the train as it's beginning to stop at the nearby station.
此时，布莱恩和我正在火车旁边奔跑，火车即将在附近车站停下来。
Give it up.
放弃吧。
Brian You give it up, homeboy.
布莱恩 你放弃吧，宅男。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Anything else?
还要别的吗？
Jake Warga Do you ever cry?
杰克·瓦尔加 你哭过吗？
No. I hardly remember the last time.
不，我几乎不记得上次是什么时候了。
It's probably been almost 10 years.
大概已经快10年了。
I came close, though, in December of '92 when I came home after visiting my grandma over Christmastime.
不过，92 年 12 月，当我在圣诞节期间拜访祖母回家时，我已经接近了。
My grandma had shown us a bunch of pictures of my biological mom and told us some stories about her.
我的祖母给我们看了一堆我亲生母亲的照片，并给我们讲了一些关于她的故事。
These were photos I don't think I'd ever seen and stories I don't think I'd ever heard.
这些是我认为我从未见过的照片和我认为我从未听说过的故事。
I came home and I was taking a shower late that night, and while I was in the shower, I wept just a little bit.
那天晚上我回到家，正在洗澡，洗澡的时候我哭了一点。
But it wasn't really full-fledged.
但它并不是真正成熟的。
I kind of feel like I'm emotionally constipated.
我感觉自己在感情上有点便秘。
I guess that's a major part of my problem.
我想这是我问题的一个主要部分。
People need to express their anger and whatever else they're feeling.
人们需要表达他们的愤怒以及他们的其他感受。
I've actually tried to.
我实际上已经尝试过。
I've tried because I knew I wanted the release because I knew it would feel good.
我尝试过，因为我知道我想要发布，因为我知道它会感觉很好。
But I just couldn't do it.
但我就是做不到。
Very frustrating.
非常令人沮丧。
We're in the last nine minutes of this cassette.
我们现在处于这盘磁带的最后九分钟。
(FAKE WHINY) Oh, there's nine more minutes.
（假发牢骚）哦，还有九分钟。
(FAKE WHINY) I kind of want it over now.
（假发牢骚）我有点想现在结束。
I can't think of anything else to say.
我想不出还有什么可说的。
I'm not the kind of guy who can just rattle off his famous last words or big words of advice.
我不是那种可以滔滔不绝地说出著名的遗言或大言不惭的建议的人。
Don't have kids unless you had a good relationship with your own parents, I guess, because you can seriously screw them up by saying negative things to them or even neglecting them.
我想，除非你和自己的父母关系良好，否则不要生孩子，因为你可能会对他们说负面的话，甚至忽视他们，从而严重地搞砸他们。
Apparently, that's a highly debated cause of sudden infant death syndrome-- not giving your baby enough physical attention.
显然，这是导致婴儿猝死综合症的一个备受争议的原因——没有给予宝宝足够的身体关注。
One of my psychiatrists said I'm failing to thrive.
我的一位精神科医生说我无法茁壮成长。
That's a phrase commonly used for infants who mysteriously die.
这是一个常用于形容神秘死亡的婴儿的短语。
I'm thinking-- I just kind of amuse myself with the thought that my case is a belated case of sudden infant death syndrome.
我在想——我只是自娱自乐地想，我的病例是一个迟来的婴儿猝死综合症病例。
I don't think my dad failed as a parent, as he worries that he has.
我不认为我父亲作为父母失败了，正如他担心的那样。
I think he did a great job.
我认为他做得很好。
It's just, along the way, I contracted a disease and it doesn't have a very optimistic or bright prognosis.
只是，一路走来，我染上了一种疾病，而且预后并不乐观。
And not even the best parent can prevent that.
即使是最好的父母也无法阻止这种情况。
At the end of editing this story, Brian is still alive, living in the same small town.
在故事编辑结束时，布莱恩还活着，住在同一个小镇上。
I don't know if he's getting better or not.
我不知道他的情况是否有所好转。
Jake Warga.
杰克·瓦尔加。
He sent this tape to his friend Brian in 1999 and waited for a reaction.
1999 年，他将这盘磁带发送给了他的朋友布莱恩，并等待回应。
Brian emailed him.
布莱恩给他发了电子邮件。
He wrote, "How did you learn about the music that you included in the interviews?" He liked some of the pieces, but said they, quote, "Might be a tad overdramatic." And he wanted to know if Jake's computer had a filter that can make him sound less stupid.
他写道：“你是如何了解采访中的音乐的？”他喜欢其中一些作品，但引用它们的话来说，“可能有点过于戏剧化了。”他想知道杰克的电脑是否有过滤器可以让他听起来不那么愚蠢。
Brian also asked Jake if he had any plans to publish this story.
布莱恩还问杰克是否有计划发表这个故事。
He told Jake that he thought Jake would have an easier time publishing it if he were dead.
他告诉杰克，他认为如果杰克死了，出版这本书会更容易。
Nearly two years later, in the spring of 2001, Brian did try to kill himself again, and this time he didn't survive.
大约两年后，即 2001 年春天，布莱恩再次试图自杀，但这次他没能活下来。
Jake added this epilogue to the story.
杰克在故事中添加了这个尾声。
On May 9 of this year, Brian's body was found in his room.
今年5月9日，布莱恩的尸体在他的房间里被发现。
He had injected himself with a lethal dose of morphine.
他给自己注射了致命剂量的吗啡。
He was 31 years old.
他当时 31 岁。
I had sent this tape to Brian sometime after our interview in hopes that, by hearing himself, like looking long and hard into a mirror, he would realize what he was saying, that he would snap out of it.
在我们采访后的某个时候，我把这盘磁带寄给了布莱恩，希望通过听到自己的声音，就像长时间认真地看着镜子一样，他会意识到自己在说什么，他会振作起来。
Though he appreciated my efforts, I did not change him.
尽管他赞赏我的努力，但我并没有改变他。
And I came closer to realizing I never could.
我几乎意识到我永远做不到。
Brian left packets for a few people, myself included.
布莱恩给一些人留下了包裹，包括我自己。
In them were copies of letters he wrote years before, explaining some of what he felt at the time, and tapes of the interview we did that night.
其中有他几年前写的信的副本，解释了他当时的一些感受，还有我们当晚采访的录音带。
He actually had to make cassette copies for his brother and cousin from the MiniDiscs that I sent him.
实际上，他必须用我寄给他的迷你光盘为他的兄弟和表弟制作盒式磁带。
I've had to ask myself now that Brian's dead, why do I want to share this tape?
布莱恩去世后，我不得不问自己，为什么我要分享这盘磁带？
One reason is I want to take something from death, to rob it, for a little while, of the mute it imposes.
原因之一是我想从死亡中拿走一些东西，暂时剥夺它所强加的沉默。
I also hope that it might help someone who feels like Brian.
我也希望它可以帮助那些像布莱恩一样的人。
Or, for friends and family left confused, some sense of closure they may not have had if death were allowed its silence.
或者，对于感到困惑的朋友和家人来说，如果允许死亡保持沉默，他们可能不会有某种结束感。
So Brian, I'm relieved your pains are over.
所以布莱恩，你的痛苦已经结束了，我很欣慰。
And now it's time for ours to begin.
现在是我们开始的时候了。
You will be missed.
我们会想念你的。
Jake Warga.
杰克·瓦尔加。
He teaches storytelling at Stanford University.
他在斯坦福大学教授讲故事。
Thanks to Jay Allison and transom.org and KUOW in Seattle, where Jake's story has appeared.
感谢 Jay Allison 和 transom.org 以及西雅图的 KUOW，杰克的故事在这里发表了。
If you or somebody you know might need help, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is available 24/7 at 1-800-273-TALK.
如果您或您认识的人可能需要帮助，请拨打 1-800-273-TALK，每周 24/7 拨打国家自杀预防生命线。
That's 1-800-273-8255.
那是 1-800-273-8255。
[MUSIC - "I SEE A DARKNESS" BY BONNIE PRINCE BILLY]
[音乐 - 邦妮·普林斯·比利的《我看到黑暗》]
Coming up, three magic words that make tough New Yorkers pour out their hearts to strangers.
接下来，三个神奇的词可以让坚强的纽约人向陌生人倾诉心声。
And I'm not talking about "hand it over" or "yes, you've won" or "I love you." Also, your fears listed in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
我不是在谈论“交出它”或“是的，你赢了”或“我爱你”。此外，当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台会在一分钟内列出您的担忧。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Say Anything, stories about what talking can accomplish and what it cannot accomplish.
今天的节目《畅所欲言》讲述了关于说话可以实现什么以及不能实现什么的故事。
This show was first broadcast back in 2003.
该节目于2003年首播。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, The Battle of Words Versus Fear.
第二幕，言语与恐惧的较量。
Michael Bernard Loggins is in his 50s.
迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯 (Michael Bernard Loggins) 50 多岁。
He's developmentally disabled.
他患有发育障碍。
He lives in San Francisco.
他住在旧金山。
And he says that there's certain things that he's afraid of, things that just put him on edge.
他说他害怕某些事情，这些事情会让他感到紧张。
And one day, he felt like he needed to write them down, just to get them out of his system.
有一天，他觉得他需要把它们写下来，只是为了把它们从他的系统中清除掉。
And so he started writing, numbering each fear.
于是他开始写作，对每一种恐惧进行编号。
And it quickly got to 10, and then to 20, then to 30 and 40 and 50, till he had 138 of them on paper.
很快就增加到了 10 个，然后是 20 个，然后是 30 个、40 个和 50 个，直到他在纸上写下了 138 个。
The arts program for adults where he did this, a place called Creativity Explored, published this writing as a little handwritten, xeroxed zine called, "Fears of Your Life." A few years later, Michael found that there were more fears to tame by turning them into words, and he put out a part two, a sequel titled, "Fears of Your Life, a Whole Brand New One." This one listed 45 fears.
他从事这项工作的成人艺术项目，一个名为“创造力探索”的地方，将这篇文章出版为一本手写的复印小杂志，名为“对你生活的恐惧”。几年后，迈克尔发现可以通过将恐惧转化为语言来驯服更多的恐惧，于是他推出了第二部分，续集，标题为“你生活中的恐惧，一个全新的恐惧”。这列出了 45 种恐惧。
Michael gave us permission to excerpt the two books, which we do now.
迈克尔允许我们摘录这两本书，我们现在就这么做了。
Actor Tom Wright is our reader.
演员汤姆·赖特是我们的读者。
Fear of hospitals and needles.
对医院和针头的恐惧。
Fear of school and dentists.
害怕学校和牙医。
Fear of noises and bumps in the middle of the night.
害怕半夜的噪音和颠簸。
Fear of doors when they slams.
害怕关门时的感觉。
Fear of toys that come on by itself without anyone touching it.
害怕玩具在没有人触摸的情况下自行出现。
Fear of being caught with another woman after cheating on your wife.
害怕在欺骗你的妻子后被抓到与另一个女人在一起。
Fear of being in wrong places at the wrong time.
害怕在错误的时间出现在错误的地点。
Fear of dropping your soda as it hit the ground and fizz on you.
害怕苏打水掉到地上并在你身上发出嘶嘶声。
Fear of tall giraffe.
害怕高大的长颈鹿。
Fear of some birds.
害怕一些鸟。
Fear of being different.
害怕与众不同。
I fear that those TV people would take off my favorite cartoon, The Rugrats, off the air and wouldn't be able to watch them anymore for a long, long, long time.
我担心那些电视人会把我最喜欢的动画片《小小兵》停播，并且在很长、很长、很长的时间内都无法再观看它们。
Please let well enough alone.
请别管它。
Please don't take my Rugrats cartoon off the air because I love that cartoon.
请不要停止播放我的《小矮人》卡通片，因为我喜欢那部卡通片。
Let there be a possibility that life with the Rugrats stays put, means leave my Rugrats cartoon on TV, Michael said.
让与小矮人一起生活的可能性保持不变，意味着让我的小矮人动画片留在电视上，迈克尔说。
Fear if you put things that doesn't belongs in your ears and you bust the drums that's are in your ears, it liable to run you deaf, where you can't hear anything at all.
担心如果你把不属于你的东西放进你的耳朵里，然后你敲响了你耳朵里的鼓，它很可能会让你失聪，你根本听不到任何声音。
You wouldn't be able to hear cars when they're coming at you.
当汽车向您驶来时，您将听不到汽车的声音。
That can be a frightening and very horrible situation to happen to you if you had an occurrence in real life, especially if you comes involved in it.
如果您在现实生活中发生过这种情况，尤其是当您参与其中时，这可能是一种令人恐惧且非常可怕的情况发生在您身上。
Can you get hit by cars if you can't hear them?
如果你听不到汽车的声音，你会被车撞吗？
Michael is afraid and frightening and fearful when Andrea Scheer goes away for a very, very, very long, long, long, long vacational trips in order to go traveling all over the world, almost like different places and different cities and countries to visit people in her own image and own language.
当安德里亚·谢尔去进行一次非常、非常、非常长、很长、很长、很长的假期旅行，以便去世界各地旅行，几乎就像不同的地方、不同的城市和国家，以她自己的形象和自己的语言拜访人们时，迈克尔感到害怕、害怕、害怕。
He afraid Andrea Scheer would come back to San Francisco, California, with all different accents and won't be able to speak Michael's English, or not be able to understand his words that he's telling her, like Merry Christmas.
他担心安德里亚·谢尔回到加利福尼亚州旧金山时，会带着各种不同的口音，无法说迈克尔的英语，或者无法理解他告诉她的话，比如圣诞快乐。
I'm afraid and fearful that pigeons don't know right from wrong to not go out into the street.
我害怕，害怕鸽子不知道是非，不去街上。
They don't have the kind of memory as we humans does to know what to do and what shall not do.
他们不像我们人类那样有记忆力，知道什么该做、什么不该做。
They must don't know the danger of their lives are being jeopardized.
他们肯定不知道自己的生命正受到威胁。
And they must don't know what can definitely happen to them to humans' knowledges and sense.
他们一定不知道人类的知识和感觉肯定会发生什么。
They land just anywhere they can find a land on surface.
它们会在任何能在地表找到陆地的地方着陆。
Fear of sharks.
害怕鲨鱼。
Fear of giant man.
对巨人的恐惧。
Fear of gorilla.
害怕大猩猩。
Fear of Godzilla.
害怕哥斯拉。
Fear of tall woman.
害怕高个子女人。
Fear of killer whales.
对虎鲸的恐惧。
Fear of dinosaurs bird.
害怕恐龙鸟。
Fear of invisible man.
害怕看不见的人。
Fear of Blob.
对斑点的恐惧。
Fear that, if I go into the library and I happens to get like seven or eight books and I happens to find a place in the library that I would get a lot of comfortable and begin reading in those seven or eight books, but one book at a time, and I start to read and somehow, my voice and mind start to get from low to high and, thinking that there weren't anyone elses reading theirs, and I look over and the people in the library, and I get fearful and I'll say, "Oops, sorry."
担心的是，如果我走进图书馆，碰巧拿到了七八本书，我碰巧在图书馆里找到了一个让我感觉很舒服的地方，开始阅读那七八本书，但一次读一本书，我开始阅读，不知怎的，我的声音和思想开始从低到高，想着没有其他人在读他们的书，我环顾图书馆里的人，我变得害怕，我会说，“哎呀，抱歉。”
If your friends are people that you are with and you hear them making decision about what they decided that they are going to steal expensive and very valuable merchandise out of the department stores and don't care less, you say, I am out of here.
如果你的朋友和你在一起，你听到他们做出决定，他们决定从百货商店偷走昂贵且非常有价值的商品，并且不在乎，你会说，我要离开这里。
Bye bye.
再见。
I'm not getting caught in your crazy schemes.
我不会陷入你疯狂的计划中。
I'm not your stealer partner.
我不是你的偷窃伙伴。
I'm just your friend.
我只是你的朋友。
It's going to trouble, and it's on your head, not mine.
会有麻烦的，而且是你的责任，而不是我的责任。
I'm not going to participate in stealing with you, so leave me out of your crazy schemes, especially if it involve Oreo cookies and other stuff, hot stuff.
我不会和你一起偷东西，所以不要让我参与你的疯狂计划，特别是如果它涉及奥利奥饼干和其他东西，热门的东西。
Fear of me getting in trouble just as well.
也怕我惹上麻烦。
It's very scary and fearfully to be sleeping in your bed in the middle of the night whenever there's a telephone right beside the bed on you left near the door you once enter and exit out.
半夜睡在床上，只要你进出的门左边的床边有一部电话，那是非常可怕和可怕的。
You are sleeping.
你正在睡觉。
The telephone rang and scared the living life out of you in the middle of the night.
半夜里电话铃响了，把你吓得魂飞魄散。
Who is this calling at this hour of the night?
大晚上的这个时候，是谁打来的电话？
Fear of a blasted music on the radio, where you are not aware that the volume is turned up.
害怕收音机里播放着刺耳的音乐，而你却没有意识到音量已经调高。
Fear of rolling downhill backward.
害怕向后滚下坡。
Fear of foghorn.
害怕雾号。
Fear of getting hugged by somebody you don't like.
害怕被不喜欢的人拥抱。
There's Los Angeles fears.
洛杉矶有恐惧。
Fear of getting hit over the head when you carry lots of dough with you, or bucks.
当您携带大量面团或美元时，担心头部会被击中。
Fear is like this.
恐惧就是这样的。
Someone like a woman that you grab a hold of her hand in going down the escalator, when of a sudden, you happens to be holding a stranger hand, not realizing that she isn't your mother is scary.
像一个女人，你在下自动扶梯时抓住她的手，突然间，你碰巧握着一只陌生人的手，没有意识到她不是你的母亲，这很可怕。
Fear that if you put too much of toilet paper in the toilet bowl, it will run over and get all over the floor and on you and on someone else, too.
担心如果你在马桶里放了太多卫生纸，它会流到地板上，弄脏你和其他人的身上。
It would leak from upstairs to the next floor below.
它会从楼上泄漏到下面的下一层。
I am afraid someday I liable to get lost inside Children's Hospital if I'm not all so familiar with that place yet.
如果我对儿童医院还不太熟悉的话，我担心有一天我可能会在儿童医院里迷路。
It's going to take some time to get used to it.
需要一些时间来适应它。
Fearfully of that great big, humongous Children's Hospital there ever would be to Michael's knowledge.
迈克尔所知道的那座巨大的儿童医院令人恐惧。
Good that Michael's sister is driving him up there on Tuesday, January 15, 2002.
好在 2002 年 1 月 15 日星期二，迈克尔的姐姐开车送他去那里。
Even though she's with him, she can easily get lost, too.
即使她和他在一起，她也很容易迷路。
Bad situation to tangled up in, especially if you that person has an appointment at 10:45 AM in the morning.
纠缠在一起的情况很糟糕，尤其是如果你那个人有上午 10:45 的约会。
Michael Bernard Loggins does.
迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯确实如此。
Michael fear that if his teacher Francis doesn't put away Michael's Top Ramen noodles up in the desk drawer that Douglas will see it and he'll liable to want to take it, and he'll happen to eat up Michael Bernard Loggins' noodles himself.
迈克尔担心，如果他的老师弗朗西斯不把迈克尔的顶级拉面放在书桌抽屉里，道格拉斯会看到它，他很可能会想要拿走它，而他自己就会碰巧吃掉迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯的面条。
And Michael Bernard Loggins would be out of luck, but he would have to go home tonight and bring back to school another pack of noodles to eat himself so that wouldn't ever, ever happened with that Douglas eat up noodle story.
迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯就不太走运了，但他今晚必须回家，再带一包面条回学校自己吃，这样道格拉斯吃面条的故事就永远不会发生。
It would be very fearful if I reached up on top shelf trying to reach for a nice thicker-covered dictionary book and not ask for help from someone and the books come off the shelf and make lots of noises and the people gets angry at me and don't understand that I had want help, but I were afraid to ask for it.
如果我伸手到最上面的架子上试图拿一本漂亮的厚封面字典书而不向某人寻求帮助，而书从架子上掉下来并发出很大的噪音，人们对我生气，不明白我需要帮助，但我不敢寻求帮助，那将是非常可怕的。
And they'd be a jerk or a creep, as Hope tells me.
正如霍普告诉我的那样，他们会是个混蛋或怪人。
And people say that I'll have to pay for the shelf, and I get in lots of trouble behind it, says Michael.
人们说我必须为架子付钱，这让我遇到了很多麻烦，”迈克尔说。
Fear of being with a friend that you have recently met start to take you places with him and you doesn't know him all that well.
对与你最近认识的朋友在一起的恐惧开始占据你与他相处的位置，而你对他也不太了解。
You didn't know that he were going to bring you fear and lots of trouble your way.
你不知道他会给你带来恐惧和很多麻烦。
Someone you doesn't know all that well starts to carry you in the store to buy you and him something to eat and drink, and all of the sudden, something very fishy starts to happen.
一个你不太熟悉的人开始抱着你去商店给你和他买一些吃的和喝的，突然间，一些非常可疑的事情开始发生。
Like for instance, your friend that you are with could be up to trouble and whoever with him could be heading in for trouble, as well, especially if a friend of yours could be bringing you trouble by stealing a big package of Oreo cookie.
举例来说，和你在一起的朋友可能会遇到麻烦，而和他在一起的任何人也可能会遇到麻烦，特别是如果你的一个朋友可能会因为偷一大包奥利奥饼干而给你带来麻烦。
People are fearful of me, which I wonder, is they think I'm all that terrible?
人们都害怕我，我想知道，他们认为我有那么可怕吗？
Or I'm thinking that they think I'm not human at all, because when they sit next to me, then they get back up and move away from me.
或者我认为他们认为我根本不是人，因为当他们坐在我旁边时，他们就会站起来并远离我。
I may be a stranger, but that doesn't make me a created monster or something like that.
我可能是一个陌生人，但这并不意味着我是一个被创造的怪物或类似的东西。
People aren't humans.
人不是人。
They act like ignorance dogs with their tail in back of their legs or in between their middle bodies their legs.
它们的行为就像无知的狗一样，尾巴放在腿后面或中间身体和腿之间。
They don't think whose feeling they hurt at all.
他们根本不认为自己伤害了谁的感情。
They just do it, no consideration for whatsoever.
他们只是这么做，没有考虑任何事情。
People don't think about how they hurt my feelings or don't give a hoot.
人们不会考虑他们如何伤害了我的感情，也不会关心我。
They don't give a crap.
他们才不在乎呢。
Fear of you never knowing you were going to lose your mother is very sad and scary experience you have to face and learn from.
害怕你永远不知道你将失去你的母亲是你必须面对和学习的非常悲伤和可怕的经历。
And you wonder why she has to die.
你想知道为什么她必须死。
I love her.
我爱她。
And I had loved her once while she were alive, especially if she was the mother that raised you and the others through birth.
当她还活着的时候，我曾经爱过她，尤其是她是抚养你和其他人出生的母亲。
And you only wish that you could have done all you can to help save her life.
你只希望你能尽你所能来帮助挽救她的生命。
There going to be a worse times and hard times for Michael Bernard Loggins and his sisters and brothers, too, especially when Mother's Day comes.
对于迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯和他的兄弟姐妹来说，也将经历更糟糕和艰难的时期，尤其是在母亲节到来的时候。
Afraid this is the last thing that ever occur to me.
恐怕这是我经历过的最后一件事。
Excerpts from Michael Bernard Loggins' two xeroxed zines, "Fears of Your Life," Parts One and Two, read first by Tom Wright, an actor in Los Angeles.
迈克尔·伯纳德·洛金斯 (Michael Bernard Loggins) 复印的两本杂志《对生活的恐惧》(Fears of Your Life) 的第一部分和第二部分节选，首先由洛杉矶演员汤姆·赖特 (Tom Wright) 朗读。
Michael writes and makes art in San Francisco.
迈克尔在旧金山写作和创作艺术。
To get your own copy of these amazing books or to find out more about the arts program where they were made, visit the website of Creativity Explored, creativityexplored.org.
要获取这些精彩书籍的副本或了解有关制作这些书籍的艺术项目的更多信息，请访问创造力探索网站：creativeexplored.org。
[MUSIC - "HE'S REALLY SAYING SOMETHING" BY BANANARAMA]
[音乐 - Bananarama 的“他真的在说些什么”]
Act Three: When A City Opens Its Big Mouth Ira Glass Act Three, When the City Opens Its Big Mouth.
第三幕：当城市张开大嘴时 艾拉·格拉斯 第三幕，当城市张开大嘴时。
For months, Liz Berry and Bill Wetzel have been going out in the streets, seven days a week, 12 or 13 hours a day, in any kind of weather, with a handmade sign that says, "Talk to me."
几个月来，莉兹·贝里 (Liz Berry) 和比尔·韦策尔 (Bill Wetzel) 每周 7 天、每天 12 或 13 小时，无论天气如何，都在街上外出，举着一块手工制作的牌子，上面写着“跟我说话”。
In a way, it's a relief to see just how wary people are of being scammed.
从某种程度上来说，看到人们对上当受骗的警惕程度让人松了一口气。
Nearly every person who approaches them asks the same question in one form or another.
几乎每个接近他们的人都会以这样或那样的形式问同样的问题。
Are you taking money?
你拿钱吗？
Are you with some organization?
你有组织吗？
Are you doing this for TV or something?
你这样做是为了电视还是别的什么？
In other words, as one Chinese woman put it--
换句话说，正如一位中国女性所说——
Who are you and what for?
你是谁，为了什么？
Bill I'm Bill, and that's Liz, and it's just the two of us.
比尔 我是比尔，那是莉兹，只有我们两个人。
Here they are, people who decided that it might be nice if strangers would just interact a little more.
他们认为，如果陌生人能多一点互动就好了。
And they were going to take their matters into their own hands to see that it happen, even though it pays no money, even though it means camping on people's couches, even though they end up acting like cheerful customer service representatives to a largely indifferent world, one exhausting hour after another.
他们将亲自处理事情，确保这件事发生，即使这不花钱，即使这意味着在人们的沙发上扎营，即使他们最终表现得像开朗的客户服务代表，面对一个基本上冷漠的世界，一个又一个令人筋疲力尽的小时。
We just put up this sign and anything people want to talk about, we'll go with it.
我们只是竖起这个牌子，人们想谈论的任何事情，我们都会跟着做。
Sign?
符号？
Ira Glass Liz is 25.
艾拉·格拉斯·莉兹 25 岁。
Bill is 23.
比尔 23 岁。
But they each use the kind of vernacular that you'd expect from an 80-year-old woman.
但他们每个人都使用一种 80 岁女性所用的方言。
They call men fellas.
他们称男人为“伙计”。
And instead of using the word ass or bum to describe the part of the body that you sit on, they favor the word patootie.
他们不使用“ass”或“bum”这个词来描述你坐的身体部位，而是喜欢用“patootie”这个词。
They smile easily.
他们很容易微笑。
They look young and vulnerable and almost overwhelmingly earnest.
他们看起来年轻、脆弱，而且几乎极其认真。
That kind of thing either works for you, or it doesn't.
这种事情要么对你有用，要么没有。
And for them, apparently it does.
对于他们来说，显然确实如此。
People talk to them.
人们与他们交谈。
The sign does its job.
该标志发挥了作用。
Two plainclothes cops approach, and the one in the wraparound sunglasses talks first.
两名便衣警察走近，戴墨镜的警察先开口说话。
This girl I've been going out with for two years just got engaged to some dude after dating him for four weeks.
这个和我约会了两年的女孩在和一个男人约会了四个星期后刚刚和他订婚了。
Did you think she was just spending your time?
你以为她只是在消磨你的时间吗？
Did you think she was stringing you along?
你以为她在欺骗你吗？
Do you think she didn't love you?
你觉得她不爱你吗？
Yeah, sure, for like the last six months.
是的，当然，就像过去六个月一样。
Yeah.
是的。
Nice, right?
很好，对吧？
Did you know?
你可知道？
Cop 1 No. I had no idea.
警察 1 不，我不知道。
Nope.
没有。
In the course of this one day in New York City, Liz and Bill chat with a teenager from LaGuardia High School who was all excited about the fake country she and her friends had made up.
在纽约市的这一天，莉兹和比尔与拉瓜迪亚高中的一名青少年聊天，这名青少年对她和朋友们编造的假国家感到非常兴奋。
There was a drunk guy carrying bags full of brand new computer equipment.
有一个醉汉拎着装满全新电脑设备的袋子。
He talked about how much money he's making.
他谈到了他赚了多少钱。
A woman who just quit the AmeriCorps program hours before because it seemed too dangerous, and they wouldn't even give her a phone.
一名妇女在几个小时前刚刚退出美国军团项目，因为这看起来太危险了，他们甚至不给她电话。
There was a guy in Harlem who fixed up two of the patients in the optometrist's office where he works.
哈莱姆区有一个人在他工作的验光师办公室里给两名病人做了检查。
A woman who was mad at the teacher who hit her son in school.
一位女士对在学校打她儿子的老师感到愤怒。
A well-dressed man who explained the intricacies of estate tax assessment.
一位衣着考究的男子解释了遗产税评估的复杂性。
And there was this guy, who walked up to Liz and Bill right after being let go from his job.
有一个人，在被解雇后立即走向莉兹和比尔。
They brought me into an office and they just said, "As you know, things have been very slow, and I really don't know how to tell you this.
他们把我带进办公室，只是说：“如你所知，事情进展得很慢，我真的不知道如何告诉你这一点。
I mean, you've been great.
我的意思是，你已经很棒了。
It's not a firing.
这不是开火。
It's purely economic-based." But I feel like-- have you ever been laid off or fired?
这纯粹是基于经济的。”但我觉得——你曾经被解雇或解雇过吗？
Yes.
是的。
Man 2 You know that blank feeling you get right here?
男人 2 你知道你在这里的那种茫然的感觉吗？
It's just like, oh, my god.
这就像，哦，天啊。
Do you have any kind of savings?
你有什么储蓄吗？
Are you in a rent-stabilized place?
您所在的地方租金稳定吗？
Yeah.
是的。
No, I'm in a rent-stabilized place.
不，我在一个租金稳定的地方。
As conversationalists, Bill and Liz are perfectly fine, no better or worse than you and me.
作为健谈者，比尔和莉兹非常好，不比你和我更好或更差。
Mostly what they do is keep the ball rolling.
他们所做的主要是让事情继续下去。
Watching all this for several hours, it makes you start to see everyone on the street differently.
看了几个小时这一切，你会开始以不同的方式看待街上的每个人。
Everyone starts to seem like he or she could suddenly burst into a story.
每个人都开始显得他或她可以突然爆发出一个故事。
A whole city seems filled with people who need to get something off their chests.
整个城市似乎都挤满了需要倾诉心声的人。
At this point, it's also, I want just some more stability in my life.
在这一点上，我也希望我的生活更加稳定。
And my birthday's next week.
我的生日是下周。
I'm going to be 39 years old.
我马上就39岁了。
At the end of day, a man talks to them for three hours.
一天结束时，一名男子与他们交谈了三个小时。
Three hours.
三小时。
Mostly about a girlfriend that he lost who he can't get over, but also about the war and the time, years ago, that he tried to kill himself.
主要是关于他失去了一个他无法释怀的女朋友，还有战争和多年前他试图自杀的那次。
By the end, it was 1:00 in the morning and he offered Liz and Bill $100, which they turned down.
最后，时间是凌晨 1:00，他向莉兹和比尔提供 100 美元，但他们拒绝了。
Liz was still full of energy and completely cheery.
莉兹仍然精力充沛，心情愉快。
It seemed like she could go for another three hours.
看来她还能再坚持三个小时。
But it was late and the streets were clearing, and it was time to go home.
但时间已经很晚了，街道上已经空了，是时候回家了。
Act Four: Wedding Bells And Door Bells Ira Glass Act Four, Wedding Bells and Telephone Bells.
第四幕：婚礼铃声和门铃 Ira Glass 第四幕，婚礼铃声和电话铃声。
We end our program today with two brief case studies of situations where the words for something don't even matter, where it's not about the words at all.
我们今天以两个简短的案例研究来结束我们的节目，这些案例研究了某些情况下的单词甚至不重要，根本与单词无关。
We begin with this one from Elizabeth Gilbert.
我们从伊丽莎白·吉尔伯特的这篇文章开始。
My friend Kevin once attended a wedding where he heard the world's most inappropriate wedding toast.
我的朋友凯文曾经参加过一场婚礼，在那里他听到了世界上最不恰当的婚礼祝酒词。
The toast began inauspiciously enough.
祝酒仪式一开始就很不吉利。
The best man stood up during the meal, clinked his knife against the crystal, and the other guests all quieted down.
用餐时，伴郎站了起来，刀子敲着水晶，叮当响，其他客人都安静了下来。
"I was thinking on the airplane ride here about what I was going to say today about Danny and Joyce," the best man began.
“我在飞机上思考今天要说的关于丹尼和乔伊斯的话，”伴郎开始说道。
"And all I could think at first was what a happy day today is." Good enough start.
“一开始我只想到今天是多么快乐的一天。”足够好的开始。
But then this speech took an interesting turn.
但随后这次演讲发生了有趣的转变。
"And I realized that what I really wanted to talk about this afternoon is jury duty."
“我意识到今天下午我真正想谈论的是陪审团职责。”
"Now, I don't know how many of you have ever served on a jury," he went on.
“现在，我不知道你们中有多少人曾经担任过陪审团成员，”他继续说道。
"But it's a fascinating process.
“但这是一个令人着迷的过程。
I was just on a jury last year for the first time in my life, and I learned a lot about myself and about the legal system.
去年我人生中第一次担任陪审团成员，我对自己和法律体系有了很多了解。
It was a pretty serious case, too.
这也是一起相当严重的案子。
It was actually a murder trial.
这实际上是一起谋杀案审判。
It was very tragic.
这是非常悲惨的。
It was this old man who got killed.
被杀的正是这个老人。
Very sad.
非常难过。
He was getting money out of an ATM in the middle of the day and some gang kids came up and robbed him and shot him right in the face."
中午，他从自动取款机取钱，一些帮派小伙子过来抢劫了他，还朝他的脸开枪。”
By now, many of the wedding guests were lowering their champagne glasses gently back down to the table.
现在，许多参加婚礼的宾客已经将香槟酒杯轻轻地放回到桌子上。
"It was a cut-and-dry case, really," he went on.
“这确实是一个案子，”他继续说道。
"There were plenty of witnesses, and the forensic evidence pointed straight to one kid as the shooter.
“有很多目击者，法医证据直接指出一名孩子就是枪手。
The kid was definitely guilty.
这孩子肯定是有罪的。
But here's the thing.
但事情是这样的。
It was actually a capital offense.
这实际上是一种死罪。
And my jury had to decide whether or not to give this kid the death penalty."
我的陪审团必须决定是否判处这个孩子死刑。”
"Now, I don't know if any of you have ever had to decide whether somebody should live or die, but it's emotionally intense.
“现在，我不知道你们中是否有人曾经不得不决定一个人应该生还是死，但这在情感上是很强烈的。
We all knew the kid was guilty, but the death penalty is nothing to take lightly.
我们都知道这个孩子有罪，但死刑却不容小觑。
In the end, though, we decided yes, this kid needs to die.
但最终我们决定，是的，这个孩子必须死。
And we sent him to his death."
然后我们送他去死。”
The tent was silent.
帐篷里一片寂静。
The bride, ashen.
新娘，灰白。
The best man took a moment to compose himself and concluded, "That was probably the worst day of my life.
伴郎花了一点时间让自己平静下来，总结道：“那可能是我一生中最糟糕的一天。
And I got to thinking about it on the plane because that day was nothing like today, which is a happy day.
我在飞机上开始思考这件事，因为那天与今天不同，今天是快乐的一天。
A really happy day.
真是开心的一天。
So here's to Danny and Joyce." Thus concluded the toast.
为丹尼和乔伊斯干杯。”祝酒仪式就此结束。
I've pondered the meaning of this story for years, and ultimately, I've decided that I get it.
我多年来一直在思考这个故事的意义，最终我决定我明白了。
I've heard it said before that the human psyche cannot always tell the difference between good events and bad events.
我以前听人说过，人类的心理不能总是区分好事件和坏事件。
All we can feel is the tremor of the earth.
我们所能感受到的只是大地的颤抖。
Which is what happened to our best man, I believe.
我相信这就是发生在我们的伴郎身上的事情。
He was so overcome by happiness for his friend and he was so out of touch with his emotions that he couldn't express that happiness appropriately.
他为朋友的幸福而激动不已，但他与自己的情感脱节，无法恰当地表达这种幸福。
All he could do was remember the last time he had felt so moved by something, and so he tried to express that.
他所能做的就是回想起上次被某件事如此感动是什么时候，所以他试图表达出来。
Sure, there's nothing parallel about an old man getting shot in the face and a dear friend getting married-- unless, of course, you measure human emotion by the weight, in which case, the two events carry exactly the same impact.
当然，老人脸部中弹和亲爱的朋友结婚没有什么相似之处——当然，除非你用重量来衡量人类的情感，在这种情况下，这两件事产生的影响完全相同。
Which is to say that I think I finally understand what the best man was trying to convey that afternoon.
也就是说，我想我终于明白了伴郎那天下午想要传达的意思。
And I raise my glass to the poor guy for his valiant and hopeless attempt to celebrate.
我向这个可怜的家伙举杯庆祝，感谢他勇敢而无望的尝试。
Liz Gilbert is the author of many books, including most recently, Big Magic.
莉兹·吉尔伯特 (Liz Gilbert) 是多本书的作者，包括最近出版的《大魔法》(Big Magic)。
Her story first appeared on a website that doesn't exist anymore but was called otherpeoplesstories.com.
她的故事首先出现在一个不再存在的网站上，该网站名为 otherpeoplesstories.com。
Well, now we move onto our next example of wordless communication.
好吧，现在我们进入下一个无言交流的例子。
Our very last example today from Jonathan Goldstein.
今天我们的最后一个例子来自乔纳森·戈德斯坦。
Hettie lives in the same building she grew up in, and I live with her.
海蒂住在她长大的同一栋楼里，我和她住在一起。
We're in an apartment two floors up from her dad.
我们住在距离她父亲两层楼的公寓里。
He's 78 years old and doesn't want to bother climbing up the stairs every time he wants her, so he ends up usually just calling her on the phone.
他已经 78 岁了，不想每次想要她的时候都要爬楼梯，所以他通常只是给她打电话。
He calls anywhere from 20 to 30 times a day.
他每天给任何地方打电话 20 到 30 次。
The one thing he never wants is conversation.
他从来不想要的一件事就是谈话。
Sometimes he calls to ask Hettie what time it is because he's too tired to get up and look for himself.
有时他会打电话问海蒂现在几点了，因为他太累了，无法起床去找自己。
Sometimes he calls to see what she's having for dinner.
有时他会打电话来看看她晚餐吃什么。
But most of the time, he calls and doesn't say a thing.
但大多数时候，他只是打电话，什么也不说。
Hettie picks up the phone and only hears classical music playing and she knows it's her dad with his kitchen radio on.
海蒂拿起电话，只听到古典音乐在播放，她知道是她爸爸打来的，厨房里的收音机还开着。
Sometimes I'll walk into the living room and Hettie will be watching TV with the telephone cupped to her ear, not saying a word, and I know she's on the phone with her dad, and that, three floors down, he's sitting, watching TV just as silently.
有时我会走进客厅，海蒂会把电话放在耳边看电视，一言不发，我知道她正在和她爸爸打电话，而在三层楼下，他正坐着，同样安静地看电视。
When our line is in use, the voice mail picks up.
当我们的线路正在使用时，语音邮件就会接听。
Hettie's father will leave a dozen messages in a row.
海蒂的父亲会连续留言十几条。
The way we know it's him is that there are no words, just the click of the phone.
我们知道是他的方式是，无需言语，只需电话的咔嗒声。
After about 10 minutes, the fact that he can't get through starts to drive him crazy, so he walks down to the buzzers by the building's main door and buzzes our apartment.
大约 10 分钟后，他无法接通的事实开始让他发疯，所以他走到大楼大门旁的蜂鸣器前，对我们的公寓发出蜂鸣声。
The way he sees it, why should he have to walk up two flights of stairs when he could just walk down one?
在他看来，只要走下一层楼梯，为什么还要走两层楼梯呢？
The buzzer is like an amplified dentist drill.
蜂鸣器就像一个放大的牙钻。
And sometimes, when you're quiet or deep in thought, the suddenness of it is like being goosed by something cold and metallic.
有时，当你安静或陷入沉思时，突然的感觉就像被某种冰冷的金属物体所刺激一样。
It is the kind of sound that rats in lab experiments come to associate with a terrible, perhaps fatal, error.
实验室实验中的老鼠将这种声音与可怕的、甚至是致命的错误联系起来。
When we hear the buzzer, we get off the internet or the telephone so that he could call.
当我们听到蜂鸣声时，我们就断开网络或电话，以便他可以打电话。
Even now it could buzz, you think to yourself.
即使现在它也会嗡嗡作响，你心里想。
Or even now.
或者甚至是现在。
One day, I didn't get off the internet quick enough, so he went back down to the buzzer, and this time, he just leaned on it.
有一天，我没有足够快地离开互联网，所以他又回到了蜂鸣器前，这一次，他只是靠在了蜂鸣器上。
I got off the line and Hettie phoned him.
我挂断电话，海蒂给他打电话。
He wasn't answering.
他没有回答。
She yelled down the stairs, but still he would not stop.
她在楼梯下大喊，但他仍然不肯停下来。
He was making a point.
他正在表达一个观点。
I am not exaggerating when I say that he kept the buzzer going for several minutes straight.
当我说他让蜂鸣器连续响了几分钟时，我并不夸张。
And after a while, you could hear layered fluctuations and subtle pitch blends.
过了一会儿，你可以听到分层的波动和微妙的音调混合。
He was like Yoko Ono on that thing.
在这件事上他就像小野洋子。
Hettie got on a chair and hit the box above the door with a hammer.
海蒂坐上椅子，用锤子敲打门上方的盒子。
The buzzing stopped.
嗡嗡声停止了。
A few minutes later, her father called.
几分钟后，她父亲打来电话。
"What was so important?" Hettie asked.
“什么这么重要？”海蒂问道。
Her father was quiet.
她的父亲很安静。
Finally, he asked her if she knew what night the Oscars were on.
最后，他问她是否知道奥斯卡颁奖典礼在哪一天晚上举行。
Hettie told him that he had gone too far.
海蒂告诉他，他做得太过分了。
It made Hettie's father sad that our doorbell was gone.
我们的门铃不见了，这让海蒂的父亲很难过。
He suggested that he and Hettie get walkie-talkies.
他建议他和海蒂买对讲机。
I imagined them both sitting in their separate kitchens, each eating a sandwich, and in between long silences, one of them uttering the occasional 10-4.
我想象他们俩坐在各自的厨房里，每人吃着一个三明治，在长时间的沉默之间，其中一个人偶尔会说“10-4”。
Hettie refused the offer.
海蒂拒绝了这个提议。
"Fine," he said.
“好吧，”他说。
"From now on, I'll just go down into the basement and turn off the building's power two times really fast.
“从现在开始，我会进入地下室，并以非常快的速度关闭建筑物的电源两次。
I noticed where they keep the main switch the other day.
前几天我注意到他们把主开关放在哪里。
That'll be the signal for you to free up the line."
这将是你释放线路的信号。”
Hettie told him that that would be the signal for her to move out.
海蒂告诉他，这就是她搬出去的信号。
Now her father just comes up and knocks.
现在她父亲过来敲门。
He knocks in a particular way that I think is supposed to be a secret code.
他以一种特殊的方式敲门，我认为这应该是一个密码。
Often, after Hettie has answered the door, he just stands there in the doorway, looking at her uncertainly, sort of put upon that now that he's got her attention.
通常，在海蒂开门后，他只是站在门口，不确定地看着她，既然他引起了她的注意，就有点装腔作势了。
He actually has to come up with something to say.
他实际上必须想出一些话来说。
Jonathan Goldstein is the host of the podcast Heavyweight from Gimlet Media.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦 (Jonathan Goldstein) 是 Gimlet Media 播客 Heavyweight 的主持人。
[MUSIC - "KNOCK THREE TIMES" BY TONY ORLANDO AND DAWN]
[音乐 - 托尼·奥兰多和黎明的《敲三遍》]
Credits Ira Glass Well, this rerun episode of our program was produced by Starlee Kine and me, with Alex Blumberg, Diane Cook, Wendy Dorr, and David Kestenbaum.
感谢 Ira Glass 嗯，我们节目的这一重播集是由 Starlee Kine 和我以及 Alex Blumberg、Diane Cook、Wendy Dorr 和 David Kestenbaum 制作的。
Matt Tierney is our technical director.
马特·蒂尔尼是我们的技术总监。
Production help from Diane Wu.
Diane Wu 提供制作帮助。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who begs you, who implores you.
一如既往，感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他恳求您，恳求您。
Please don't take my Rugrats cartoon off the air because I love that cartoon.
请不要停止播放我的《小矮人》卡通片，因为我喜欢那部卡通片。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - TONY ORLANDO AND DAWN, "KNOCK THREE TIMES"]
[音乐 - 托尼·奥兰多和黎明，“敲三遍”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。