220: Testosterone (2002) - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #220 | March 24, 2017 220: Testosterone (2002) Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 220 集 | 2017 年 3 月 24 日 220：睾酮 (2002) 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
序言：序言 Ira Glass 好吧，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And to explain why we're doing this week's show the way that we're doing it on the subject that we're doing it, I'm joined in the studio by one of our producers, Alex Blumberg.
为了解释为什么我们要在本周的节目中以我们正在做的主题的方式进行，我们的制作人之一亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）也加入了我的工作室。
Hello, Alex.
你好，亚历克斯。
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass What's the reason for this week's show?
Ira Glass 本周演出的原因是什么？
Well, I've been thinking about that, and for me, the reason for today's program goes back to a book I read when I was 15 called The Women's Room.
嗯，我一直在思考这个问题，对我来说，今天的节目的原因可以追溯到我 15 岁时读过的一本叫做《女人的房间》的书。
Maybe people listening will remember The Women's Room.
也许听的人会记得《女厕所》。
It was a sort of a seminal feminist novel from the '70s.
这是一部 70 年代开创性的女权主义小说。
And I first came across The Women's Room when I was digging through my parents' bookshelves looking for porn, books with naughty parts in them, like Fear of Flying.
我第一次看到《女人的房间》是在我父母的书架上翻找色情片的时候，里面有一些色情内容，比如《飞行恐惧》。
And so I picked it up, and I read it.
所以我拿起它并阅读了它。
Because the word "women" was in the title?
因为标题里有“女人”这个词？
In lipstick, probably-- or maybe not.
可能是口红，也可能不是。
Yes.
是的。
It's incredibly polemical.
这是令人难以置信的争论。
It describes basically a group of women going from the '50s through the '60s.
它基本上描述了一群从 50 年代到 60 年代的女性。
And they all suffer at the hands of the various men in their lives.
他们都在生活中遭受不同男人的折磨。
And there's constantly-- women are slowly being driven crazy by their husbands' incessant criticism, or they're being called ugly after they get mastectomies, or they're being stifled by their husbands' emotional shallowness.
而且不断有——女人慢慢地被丈夫不断的批评逼疯，或者她们在做了乳房切除手术后被称为丑陋，或者她们被丈夫的情感浅薄所窒息。
And--
还有——
And I noticed you happen to have brought into the studio with you today a copy of The Women's Room.
我注意到你今天恰巧带了一本《女人的房间》到工作室。
Yeah, well, I recently reread it just to see.
是的，我最近重读了一遍，只是为了看看。
For example, I bookmarked a couple of these things.
例如，我为其中一些内容添加了书签。
On page 198, the narrator comes in, and she says, "You think I hate men.
在第 198 页，叙述者进来，她说：“你认为我讨厌男人。
I guess I do."
我想我是的。”
And then a little bit further down, she says, "My feelings about men are the result of my experience.
然后再往下说，“我对男人的感觉是我的经历的结果。
I have little sympathy for them.
我对他们没什么同情心。
Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach, and I look briefly and walk on.
就像一个刚从达豪集中营释放的犹太人一样，我看着这位英俊的年轻纳粹士兵倒在地上，肚子中了一颗子弹，我短暂地看了一眼，然后继续前行。
I don't even need to shrug.
我什至不需要耸肩。
I simply don't care." And then a little bit later, "My hatred is learned from experience.
我根本不在乎。”过了一会儿，“我的仇恨是从经验中学到的。
That is not prejudice.
这不是偏见。
I wish it were prejudice.
我希望这是偏见。
Then, perhaps, I could unlearn it." [CHUCKLES] There's not very much pornographic about that.
然后，也许我就可以忘掉它了。” [咯咯笑]这并没有太多色情内容。
It's an incredibly strange thing to read this book at that age because at that age, I felt like, there's one other woman who comes into play at this point, and that's-- I probably shouldn't say her name.
在那个年纪读这本书是一件非常奇怪的事情，因为在那个年纪，我觉得，还有另一个女人在这个时候发挥作用，那就是——我可能不应该说出她的名字。
Let's just call her Kelly.
我们就叫她凯莉吧。
And she was in eighth grade with me, and she sat two rows away from me.
她和我一起上八年级，她坐在离我两排的地方。
And I remember one time sitting in homeroom with her and seeing her button-down shirt was open a little bit, and I could catch the barest sliver of her little training bra.
我记得有一次和她一起坐在教室里，看到她的纽扣衬衫敞开了一点，我可以抓住她小训练胸罩的最细的一条。
And it was perhaps the most desire I've ever felt in my life, maybe.
这也许是我一生中最强烈的渴望。
I mean, it was just-- it was all-consuming.
我的意思是，它只是——它耗费了一切。
And I mean, I couldn't concentrate for the rest of the day.
我的意思是，这一天剩下的时间我都无法集中注意力。
I remember it to this day.
直到今天我还记得。
And so, at the time I was reading this book, I felt like, oh my god, this is what-- I could see myself becoming the people that she was describing, the men she was describing.
所以，当我读这本书的时候，我感觉，天哪，这就是——我可以看到自己成为她所描述的人，她所描述的男人。
And it was really terrifying.
这真的很可怕。
My testosterone and how it affects me and how I react to it I think about on a daily basis, all the time.
我每天都在思考我的睾丸激素以及它如何影响我以及我对它的反应。
It often feels like there's something in my body giving me instructions that I probably shouldn't follow.
我常常感觉身体里有什么东西给了我一些我可能不应该遵循的指示。
OK, which brings us to today's program.
好的，现在我们进入今天的节目。
A while back, Alex tried to convince all of us who work on the radio show that we should do an entire program about testosterone.
不久前，亚历克斯试图说服我们所有在广播节目中工作的人，我们应该做一个关于睾酮的完整节目。
And I have to say, none of us were really buying it, especially the women, who found the subject dull, even though, as Alex tried to point out to them, women have testosterone, and it affects them pretty much exactly the same way that it affects men.
我不得不说，我们没有人真正相信它，尤其是女性，她们觉得这个话题很无聊，尽管正如亚历克斯试图向她们指出的那样，女性有睾丸激素，它对她们的影响与对男性的影响几乎完全相同。
I think all of us were fearing a kind of Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus sort of thing, how hormones make men be all aggressive and women all nonaggressive in very stereotyped ways, which all seem kind of reductionistic and dumb-headed.
我想我们所有人都在担心一种“男人来自火星，女人来自金星”之类的东西，荷尔蒙如何以非常刻板的方式让男人变得好斗，而女人却没有好斗性，这一切似乎都有点简化和愚蠢。
And then Alex started reading and calling people.
然后亚历克斯开始读书并给人们打电话。
And one of the people that he called was this guy who wrote an article for GQ magazine about what happened to him when, because of medical reasons, he stopped producing testosterone.
他打电话给的人之一是这个人，他为《GQ》杂志写了一篇文章，讲述了由于医疗原因，他停止产生睾丸激素时发生在他身上的事情。
And for four months, he lived without testosterone before they caught the problem.
在他们发现这个问题之前，他已经在没有睾丸激素的情况下生活了四个月。
And the way he described living without testosterone was really incredible.
他描述的没有睾丸激素的生活方式真的令人难以置信。
Everything that I identify as being me, my ambition, my interest in things, my sense of humor, the inflection in my voice, I mean, the quality of my speech even changed in the time that I was without a lot of the hormone.
我认为自己的一切，我的野心，我对事物的兴趣，我的幽默感，我声音的语调，我的意思是，我的演讲质量甚至在我没有大量荷尔蒙的时候发生了变化。
So, yes, the introduction of testosterone returned everything.
所以，是的，睾酮的引入让一切都恢复了。
There were things that I find offensive about my own personality that were disconnected then, and it was nice to be without them-- envy, the desire to judge itself.
我觉得我自己的性格中有些东西是与当时脱节的，但没有它们很好——嫉妒，自我评判的欲望。
I approached people with a humility that I had never displayed before.
我以一种以前从未表现过的谦逊态度对待人们。
I grew up in a culture, like all of us, that divides the soul from the body, and that that is your singleness, that is your uniqueness.
像我们所有人一样，我在一种将灵魂与身体分开的文化中长大，这就是你的单一性，这就是你的独特性。
And then I go through this experience where I have small amounts of a bodily chemical removed and then reintroduced, and it changes everything I know as myself.
然后我经历了这样的经历，我去除了少量的身体化学物质，然后重新引入，它改变了我所知道的一切。
And it violates the sanctity of that understanding.
它违反了这种理解的神圣性。
And that's humbling.
这真是令人谦卑。
And it's terrifying.
这很可怕。
I think when it comes to this stuff, most of us do not know what to believe.
我认为当谈到这些事情时，我们大多数人都不知道该相信什么。
We're caught between thinking that our hormones and body chemistry can determine so much about our personalities and wanting to believe that they don't.
我们左右为难，认为我们的荷尔蒙和身体化学物质可以很大程度上决定我们的性格，但又想相信它们不能。
And so, today on our program, we bring you four stories exploring that question-- how much does testosterone determine?
因此，今天在我们的节目中，我们为您带来四个故事来探讨这个问题——睾丸激素决定多少？
Act One of our show, Life at Zero, in which we hear about what it means to lose all your testosterone.
我们节目的第一幕《零生活》中，我们了解到失去所有睾酮意味着什么。
Act Two, Infinite Gent-- a woman gets pumped up with several times the testosterone that most men have and describes some surprising changes.
第二幕，无限绅士——一名女性体内的睾酮激素是大多数男性的几倍，并描述了一些令人惊讶的变化。
Act Three, Contest-osterone-- in that act, at Alex's suggestion, all of us on the staff of this radio program decide to find out who has the most and who has the least testosterone with lab tests to see how the levels match with our personality traits, an exercise, I have to say, most of us at this point would not recommend that you try at your workplace or with your friends.
第三幕，睾酮竞赛——在这一幕中，在亚历克斯的建议下，我们这个广播节目的所有工作人员决定通过实验室测试来找出谁拥有最多和谁拥有最少睾酮，以了解其水平与我们的性格特征是否匹配，这是一项练习，我不得不说，我们大多数人在这一点上不会建议您在工作场所或与朋友一起尝试。
Act Four, Learning to Shut Up-- in that act, a mother asks her teenage son all her questions about what it means to be a boy, which is, of course, exactly the sort of thing you do not want your mother asking you on tape at 15.
第四幕，学会闭嘴——在这一幕中，一位母亲向她十几岁的儿子询问了所有关于作为一个男孩意味着什么的问题，当然，这正是你不希望你的母亲在 15 岁的时候在录音中问你的问题。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Life at Zero.
第一幕，零生活。
Testosterone is the hormone of desire.
睾丸激素是欲望的激素。
And by that, I don't mean sexual desire.
我所说的并不是性欲。
I mean desire, period.
我的意思是欲望，就这样。
In this act, we continue with Alex's interview with that magazine writer from GQ who wrote about his experiences with testosterone anonymously.
在这一幕中，我们继续采访亚历克斯对《GQ》杂志作家的采访，他匿名写下了他与睾丸激素的经历。
When you have no testosterone, you have no desire.
当你没有睾丸激素时，你就没有欲望。
And when you have no desire, you don't have any content in your mind.
当你没有欲望时，你的头脑中就没有任何内容。
You don't think about anything.
你什么都不去想。
And during those months, how were you behaving?
那几个月里，你的表现如何？
What was different?
有什么不同？
It wasn't that I was behaving.
这并不是我的行为。
It was that I was not behaving at all.
就是我根本没有表现出来。
I was, when I was awake, literally sitting in bed and staring at the wall with neither interest, nor disinterest, for three, four hours at a time.
当我醒着的时候，我真的坐在床上，既没有兴趣也没有不感兴趣地盯着墙壁，一次持续三四个小时。
If you'd had a camera in the room, you would have thought I was comatose.
如果你房间里有摄像头，你会认为我昏迷不醒。
I would go out, I would buy some groceries early in the morning, and that would be it.
我会出去，一早就去买一些杂货，仅此而已。
My day had no content.
我的一天没有内容。
I had no interest in even watching TV, much less reading the newspaper or a book.
我连看电视都没有兴趣，更不用说看报纸或读书了。
Food-- I didn't want my food to taste good or interesting.
食物——我不希望我的食物味道好或有趣。
And when you're blessed with that lack of desire, you can eat a loaf of Wonder Bread with mayonnaise.
当你幸运地缺乏欲望时，你可以吃一条带有蛋黄酱的神奇面包。
And that will be your day.
那将是你的一天。
And I only saw my girlfriend on weekends since she was living in New York and I was living in Philly, so I could get away with it five days at a time.
我只在周末见到我的女朋友，因为她住在纽约，而我住在费城，所以我可以一次度过五天。
And needless to say, there was absolutely no desire.
不用说，完全没有欲望。
People who are deprived of testosterone don't become Spock-like and incredibly rational.
缺乏睾丸激素的人不会变得像斯波克一样，也不会变得异常理性。
They become nonsensical because they're unable to distinguish between what is and isn't interesting and what is worth noting and what isn't.
他们变得毫无意义，因为他们无法区分什么是有趣的，什么是无趣的，什么是值得注意的，什么是不值得注意的。
Describe your thoughts on your morning walk in this state.
描述一下您对这种状态下早晨散步的想法。
It's very quiet at 5:30, 6:00, 6:30 in the morning.
早上5:30、6:00、6:30很安静。
And yeah, and I would see a brick and a wall, and I would think, a brick and a wall.
是的，我会看到一块砖和一堵墙，我会想，一块砖和一堵墙。
I would see a pigeon and think, a pigeon.
我看到一只鸽子就会想，一只鸽子。
It's the most literal possible understanding of the world.
这是对世界最真实的理解。
So in this time, when you're without testosterone, you're walking down the street.
所以在这个时候，当你没有睾丸激素时，你就在街上行走。
You're just sort of ticking things off, just making these very simple observations--
你只是在打勾，只是做这些非常简单的观察——
Like a grocery list.
就像购物清单一样。
Alex Blumberg Yeah, like a grocery list.
Alex Blumberg 是的，就像购物清单一样。
Exactly.
确切地。
You also have a thought that comes to you all the time, right?
你也有一个一直在你脑海中浮现的想法，对吧？
Which is a very strange-sounding thing, which is, that is beautiful.
这是一件听起来很奇怪的事情，也就是说，那是美丽的。
Everything I saw, I thought, that is beautiful, which is odd-sounding, I know, because that sounds like the judgment of a person with passion.
我认为我所看到的一切都是美丽的，但我知道这听起来很奇怪，因为这听起来像是一个充满激情的人的判断。
But it was the exact opposite.
但事实恰恰相反。
It was thought and sometimes even said with complete dispassion, with objectivity.
人们完全冷静、客观地思考，有时甚至说出这些话。
And you see, I was looking at absolutely everything, the most mundane sight in the world-- a weed in the sidewalk-- and thinking, oh, that's beautiful.
你看，我看着一切，世界上最平凡的景象——人行道上的一棵杂草——然后想，哦，那太美了。
The surgery scars on people's knees, the bolts in the hubcaps of cars-- all of it.
人们膝盖上的手术疤痕、汽车轮毂盖上的螺栓——所有这些。
It just seemed to have purpose.
它似乎只是有目的。
And it was like, oh, that's beautiful.
就好像，哦，那太美了。
It's so staggering that that is the core thought that you were left with.
太令人震惊了，这就是你留下的核心想法。
Like, if you see things factually, you could have just as easily settled on monstrous or disgusting.
就像，如果你真实地看待事物，你可能会很容易地选择怪物或恶心。
And so it's just-- it's interesting to me that the adjective your brain and what was left of your personality chose to ascribe to everything is "beautiful." Why do you think that is?
因此，对我来说有趣的是，你的大脑和你的人格中剩下的部分选择将一切归因于“美丽”这个形容词。你认为这是为什么？
I mean, when I think about that question, the issue of God comes into the equation for me.
我的意思是，当我思考这个问题时，上帝的问题就进入了我的考虑范围。
In a way, being without testosterone brought me closer to God but not in the afternoon-talk-show sense of being-- I don't know-- more humane but actually thinking like God.
在某种程度上，没有睾丸激素让我更接近上帝，但不是下午脱口秀中的存在感——我不知道——更人性化，但实际上像上帝一样思考。
And of course, I don't mean thinking as God, but I meant thinking like God in an aping, superficial kind of way.
当然，我并不是说像上帝一样思考，而是指以一种模仿、肤浅的方式像上帝一样思考。
He sees things as they really are.
他看到事物的本来面目。
He sees you as you really are.
他看到的就是你真实的样子。
And I had this omniscient sense, when I was without testosterone, that I was seeing through the skin of things, that I was seeing things as they really were, and that the objective conclusion-- not the judgmental one, but the objective conclusion-- was, they are beautiful.
当我没有睾丸激素时，我有一种无所不知的感觉，我看到了事物的表面，我看到了事物的本来面目，而客观的结论——不是判断性的，而是客观的结论——是，它们是美丽的。
Everything is beautiful, from the bugs to the cracks in the sidewalk, to the faces of other people.
一切都很美丽，从虫子到人行道上的裂缝，再到其他人的脸。
And it was automatic.
这是自动的。
Perhaps to see things objectively is to see them, all of them, as beautiful.
也许客观地看待事物就是将它们，所有的事物，都视为美丽的。
But in the most-- you have to understand that the thought was expressed in the most flatline, boring way possible.
但在大多数情况下，你必须明白，这个想法是以最平淡、最无聊的方式表达的。
Oh, yeah, that's beautiful.
哦，是的，那很漂亮。
That's beautiful.
那好美丽。
You would think that this would be a terrible thing, a terrible state to be in.
你会认为这将是一件可怕的事情，一种可怕的状态。
And for most people, it is.
对于大多数人来说，确实如此。
But it was weirdly pleasant.
但这是一种奇怪的愉快。
And there is a certain appeal, an impossible appeal, to that Rip Van Winkle existence of being without testosterone.
没有睾丸激素的瑞普·范·温克尔的存在有一种特定的吸引力，一种不可能的吸引力。
You just have to remember that it doesn't matter if you have nothing if you want nothing.
你只需要记住，如果你什么都不想要，即使你一无所有也没关系。
Very tricky to get inside that mindset.
进入这种心态非常棘手。
In some ways, it's difficult for me to even remember it now, but it had its allure.
在某些方面，我现在甚至很难记住它，但它有它的魅力。
Well, I can understand that because desire often feels like a burden.
嗯，我可以理解，因为欲望常常感觉像是一种负担。
It often feels like if I just didn't want that thing, not having it wouldn't be so painful.
常常感觉如果我只是不想要那件事，那么没有它就不会那么痛苦。
All that wanting.
所有想要的。
Act Two: Infinite Gent Ira Glass Act Two, Infinite Gent.
第二幕：无限绅士 Ira Glass 第二幕，无限绅士。
Well, we just heard from somebody whose testosterone dropped to nothing.
好吧，我们刚刚听说有人的睾丸激素降到了零。
Now we have the story of someone whose level got a huge boost.
现在我们有一个故事，一个人的水平得到了巨大的提升。
Griffin Hansbury was born female, but seven years ago, after college, Griffin took action to become a man.
格里芬·汉斯伯里出生时是女性，但七年前，大学毕业后，格里芬采取行动成为一名男性。
Now, he's had top surgery but not bottom.
现在，他接受了顶部手术，但没有接受底部手术。
He does not intend to get that.
他并不打算得到这个。
And he told this story of what it was like to experience the massive increase in testosterone that accompanies this change.
他讲述了这个故事，讲述了伴随这种变化而睾酮激素大幅增加的感受。
He talked with our producer, Alex Blumberg.
他与我们的制片人亚历克斯·布隆伯格进行了交谈。
A warning to listeners that they talk about looking at women and wanting sex during this interview.
警告听众，他们在这次采访中谈论了观察女性和想要发生性行为。
I went to Bryn Mawr College, which is a women's college, and chose a women's college because I strongly identified as a woman at the time, as a feminist, and as a dyke.
我去了布林莫尔学院，这是一所女子学院，之所以选择女子学院，是因为我当时强烈地认同自己是一名女性、一名女权主义者、一名堤坝人。
I had my leather biker jacket and my big leather belt and my black T-shirts and my Doc Marten boots, my combat boots.
我有我的皮革机车夹克、我的大皮带、我的黑色 T 恤、我的 Doc Marten 靴子、我的战斗靴。
And that felt pretty comfortable for a while.
有一段时间感觉很舒服。
And then my sophomore year in college, I was lying in bed with my girlfriend.
然后我大学二年级，我和女朋友躺在床上。
I don't know if we were talking or what it was, and it just sort of hit me like a bolt of lightning, as they say.
我不知道我们是否在说话，也不知道那是什么，正如他们所说，这就像一道闪电击中了我。
And I just knew that I had to change my body.
我只知道我必须改变我的身体。
And so I started doing the research on it.
所以我开始对此进行研究。
And the only way to do that was to take testosterone.
而做到这一点的唯一方法就是服用睾酮。
My first injection was a pretty large one of 2 cc's of 200-milligram strength depo-testosterone, which is a fairly high amount.
我的第一次注射是 2 cc 的 200 毫克强度的去睾酮，这是一个相当高的量。
Just to give you a sense of how much that is, the average amount of testosterone in an average male body is between 300 and 1,000 nanograms per deciliter of blood.
为了让您了解其含量，一般男性体内的平均睾酮含量为每分升血液 300 至 1,000 纳克。
After that shot and after an average shot, my testosterone levels go up to over 2,000 nanograms per deciliter so that I have the testosterone of two high-testosterone men in my body at once.
在那次注射后以及在平均注射后，我的睾酮水平上升到每分升 2,000 纳克以上，这样我体内的睾酮水平就可以同时达到两个高睾酮水平男性的水平。
You have the testosterone of two linebackers.
你的睾酮水平相当于两名线卫的水平。
Exactly.
确切地。
That's a lot.
就这么多了。
That's a lot of T.
那是很多T。
And what's amazing about it is how instantaneous it is, that it happens within a few days, really.
令人惊奇的是它是多么瞬时，真的在几天之内就发生了。
The world just changes.
世界只是改变了。
What were some of the changes that you didn't expect?
有哪些变化是您没有预料到的？
[CHUCKLES] The most overwhelming feeling is the incredible increase in libido and change in the way that I perceived women and the way I thought about sex.
[咯咯笑]最压倒性的感觉是性欲令人难以置信的增加以及我对女性和性的看法的改变。
Before testosterone, I would be riding the subway, which is the traditional hotbed of lust in the city.
在睾丸激素出现之前，我会乘坐地铁，这是城市传统的欲望温床。
And I would see a woman on the subway, and I would think, she's attractive.
我会在地铁上看到一个女人，我会想，她很有吸引力。
I'd like to meet her.
我想见见她。
What's that book she's reading?
她正在读的那本书是什么？
I could talk to her.
我可以和她说话。
This is what I would say.
这就是我要说的。
There would be a narrative.
会有一个叙述。
There would be this stream of language.
会有这种语言流。
It would be very verbal.
这将是非常口语化的。
After testosterone, there was no narrative.
睾丸激素之后，就没有叙述了。
There was no language whatsoever.
没有任何语言。
It was just I would see a woman who was attractive or not attractive.
只是我会看到一个有吸引力或不有吸引力的女人。
She might have an attractive quality, nice ankles or something, and the rest of her would be fairly unappealing to me.
她可能有一种有吸引力的品质，漂亮的脚踝什么的，而她的其他部分对我来说就相当没有吸引力了。
But that was enough to, basically, just flood my mind with aggressive pornographic images, just one after another.
但基本上，这足以让我的脑海中充满侵略性的色情图片，一个接一个。
It was like being in a pornographic movie house in my mind.
在我的脑海里，就像身处色情电影院一样。
And I couldn't turn it off.
我无法将其关闭。
I mean, I could not turn it off.
我的意思是，我无法将其关闭。
Everything I looked at, everything I touched, turned to sex.
我看到的一切，我触摸的一切，都变成了性。
I was an editorial assistant, and I would be standing at the Xerox machine.
我是一名编辑助理，我会站在施乐机器前。
And this big, shuddering, warm, inanimate object would just drive me crazy.
这个巨大的、颤抖的、温暖的、无生命的物体只会让我发疯。
It was very erotic to me.
这对我来说非常色情。
The Xerox machine?
施乐机器？
Griffin Hansbury The Xerox machine-- or a car.
格里芬·汉斯伯里（Griffin Hansbury）施乐机器——或者汽车。
I remember walking up Fifth Avenue one day, and this red convertible went by.
我记得有一天，我走在第五大道上，一辆红色敞篷车经过。
It was a Mustang.
那是一辆野马。
And I remember just getting this jolt in my pants, this very physical, visceral, sexual reaction to seeing a red convertible.
我记得当我看到一辆红色敞篷车时，我的裤子感到一阵震动，这是一种非常身体上的、发自内心的、性的反应。
What did you do with that?
你用它做了什么？
I mean, what did you think?
我的意思是，你觉得怎么样？
[CHUCKLES] Well, I felt like a monster a lot of the time.
[笑]嗯，很多时候我感觉自己像个怪物。
And it made me understand men.
它让我了解男人。
It made me understand adolescent boys a lot.
这让我对青春期男孩有了很多了解。
Suddenly, hair is sprouting, and I'm turning into this beast.
突然，头发长出来了，我变成了这只野兽。
And I would really berate myself for it.
我真的会为此责备自己。
I remember walking up Fifth Avenue.
我记得走在第五大道上。
There was a woman walking in front of me, and she was wearing this little skirt and this little top.
有一个女人走在我前面，她穿着这条小裙子和这件小上衣。
And I was looking at her ass.
我正在看着她的屁股。
And I kept saying to myself, don't look at it, don't look at it.
我一直对自己说，不要看它，不要看它。
And I kept looking at it.
我一直看着它。
And I walked past her, and this voice in my head kept saying, turn around to look at her breasts.
我从她身边走过，脑海里一直有这个声音说，转过身来看看她的胸部。
Turn around, turn around, turn around.
转身，转身，转身。
And my feminist female background kept saying, don't you dare, you pig.
我的女权主义女性背景一直在说，你不敢，你这头猪。
Don't turn around.
不要转身。
And I fought myself for a whole block, and then I turned around and checked her out.
我奋战了整整一个街区，然后我转身查看了她。
And before, it was cool.
而之前，还是很酷的。
When I would do a poetry reading, I would get up, and I would read these poems about women on the street.
当我进行诗歌朗诵时，我会起床，朗读这些关于街上妇女的诗。
And I was a butch dyke, and that was very cutting edge.
我是一个男人，这是非常前沿的。
And that was very sexy and raw.
那是非常性感和原始的。
And now, I'm just a jerk, you know?
现在，我只是个混蛋，你知道吗？
[CHUCKLES] Griffin Hansbury So I do feel like I've lost this edge, this nice avant garde kind of-- and I've gotten into a lot of arguments with women friends, coworkers who did not know about my past as a female.
[咯咯笑] Griffin Hansbury 所以我确实觉得我已经失去了这种优势，这种很好的前卫风格——而且我和女性朋友、同事发生了很多争论，她们不知道我作为女性的过去。
I call myself a post-feminist.
我称自己为后女权主义者。
And I had a woman say, you're not a post-feminist.
有一个女人对我说，你不是后女权主义者。
You're a misogynist.
你是个厌恶女性的人。
And I said, that's impossible.
我说，那是不可能的。
I can't be a misogynist.
我不能成为一个厌恶女性的人。
And I couldn't explain to her how I had come to this point in my life.
我无法向她解释我是如何走到这一步的。
And to her, I was just a misogynist.
对她来说，我只是一个厌恶女性的人。
And that's unfortunate because it's a lot more complicated than that.
这很不幸，因为事情比这复杂得多。
[LAUGHS] I'll say.
[笑]我会说。
Wow.
哇。
Testosterone didn't just turn you into a man.
睾丸激素不仅仅让你变成一个男人。
It turned you into Rush Limbaugh.
它把你变成了拉什·林博。
I know.
我知道。
That I was not expecting.
这是我没想到的。
That I was not expecting.
这是我没想到的。
So I had to relearn how to talk to women.
所以我必须重新学习如何与女性交谈。
And I had to learn how to rephrase things, how to hold my tongue on certain things.
我必须学习如何重新措辞，如何对某些事情保持沉默。
And I'm not very good at it, so I get in trouble.
而且我不太擅长，所以我遇到了麻烦。
That is so fascinating that-- because I mean, as a man, I think, from the time I went through puberty, I feel like that's something that I've been learning to do, in a certain way, is just figure out how to say things without getting myself in trouble.
这太令人着迷了——因为我的意思是，作为一个男人，我想，从我经历青春期的那一刻起，我觉得这是我一直在学习做的事情，在某种程度上，就是弄清楚如何说话而不让自己陷入麻烦。
Right.
正确的。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Alex Blumberg I would not have thought that you would have had that problem.
Alex Blumberg 我不会想到你会遇到这个问题。
Right, because I should know better or something.
是的，因为我应该更了解什么。
Or something.
或者什么。
Are there other ways that you-- other than the visual and other than the libidinal, are there other ways that you feel like testosterone has altered the way you feel or perceive?
除了视觉和性欲之外，是否还有其他方式让您感觉睾丸激素改变了您的感觉或感知方式？
Something that happened after I started taking testosterone, I became interested in science.
在我开始服用睾酮后发生的事情让我对科学产生了兴趣。
I was never interested in science before.
我以前对科学从来不感兴趣。
You're just setting us back 100 years, sir.
先生，你简直让我们倒退了 100 年。
I know I am.
我知道我是。
I know.
我知道。
I mean, again-- and I have to have this caveat in here-- I cannot say it was the testosterone.
我的意思是，再说一次——我必须在这里警告一下——我不能说这是睾丸激素。
All I can say is that this interest happened after T.
我只能说，这种兴趣是在T之后发生的。
There's BT and AT, and this was definitely after T.
有BT和AT，这肯定是在T之后。
And I became interested in science.
我开始对科学感兴趣。
I found myself understanding physics in a way I never had before.
我发现自己以一种前所未有的方式理解物理学。
[LAUGHS] Griffin Hansbury It's true.
[笑]格里芬·汉斯伯里 这是真的。
It's true.
这是真的。
How about in the way you feel things and in the way you perceive of your feelings?
你感受事物的方式以及你感知自己感受的方式怎么样？
Is there any change there?
那里有什么变化吗？
I have a hard time crying.
我很难哭。
It's very difficult for me to cry.
我很难哭。
And before testosterone, it was great to, if I was frustrated or angry or sad, have a good cry.
在睾丸激素出现之前，如果我感到沮丧、生气或悲伤，能痛痛快快地哭一场真是太好了。
You'd feel better afterwards.
之后你会感觉好一些。
And I do wonder if there isn't a chemical component behind it because I now have a hard time doing it, and it's very frustrating.
我确实想知道它背后是否有化学成分，因为我现在很难做到这一点，这非常令人沮丧。
And what I will do is when I feel that pressure build up, I'll go into my room, I'll close the door, and force myself-- I have to force myself to cry.
我要做的是，当我感到压力增大时，我会走进自己的房间，关上门，强迫自己——我必须强迫自己哭。
And the quality of the crying is different than the quality of the crying was before T.
而且哭泣的质量与T之前的哭泣质量不同。
It's very dry.
天气非常干燥。
I find myself sort of moaning and sobbing but with very little tears.
我发现自己有点呻吟和抽泣，但泪水很少。
You have answered a lot of questions for us today--
今天您为我们解答了很多问题——
[LAUGHTER] --and reinforced a lot of stereotypes that we've almost dispelled with.
[笑声]——并强化了许多我们几乎消除的刻板印象。
I know I have.
我知道我有。
I know.
我知道。
Alex Blumberg Did you have an idea of what kind of man you were going to be before the transition?
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）：在转型之前，你知道自己会成为什么样的人吗？
I used to watch a lot of Beverly Hills 90210, and Jason Priestley was my ideal, at least physically.
我曾经看过很多《比佛利山庄 90210》，杰森·普里斯特利是我的理想，至少在身体上是这样。
I mean, I wanted sideburns so bad.
我的意思是，我非常想要鬓角。
And that was the first facial hair that came in.
这是第一个出现的面部毛发。
I got these beautiful sideburns.
我有这些美丽的鬓角。
[CHUCKLES] So it was sort of like the James Dean, Jason Priestley kind of model, I think.
[咯咯笑]所以我认为这有点像詹姆斯·迪恩、杰森·普里斯特利的模型。
That didn't quite materialize.
但这并没有完全实现。
I was better at that as a dyke than I am as a man, I have to say.
我不得不说，作为一名堤坝人，我在这方面比作为一个男人更擅长。
[LAUGHS] And how do you feel about it?
[笑]你对此有何感想？
Is that like sort of a--
那是不是有点像——
It's a bit of a disappointment.
有点令人失望。
It's a bit of a disappointment.
有点令人失望。
I often ask people, what kind of a guy am I?
我经常问别人，我是一个什么样的人？
What do you see?
你看到了什么？
And unfortunately, people often respond that they see a nerd, which I never was before.
不幸的是，人们经常反应说他们看到了一个书呆子，而我以前从来没有这样。
I was always really kind of cool and popular and hip and whatever.
我总是很酷、很受欢迎、很时髦等等。
And now, I'm 5 foot 4".
现在，我身高 5 英尺 4 英寸。
And I work out, but I'm not real muscular, and I'm pretty small.
我也锻炼身体，但我的肌肉并不发达，而且个子也很小。
I'm pale-skinned, and my hair is starting to thin, and I've got glasses.
我皮肤苍白，头发开始稀疏，还戴着眼镜。
And of course, I'm also-- I'm the sensitive guy now.
当然，我现在也是个敏感的人。
I used to be the butch dyke, and I was seen as very aggressive.
我曾经是个男人，人们认为我很有攻击性。
And I was more masculine, in many ways-- outwardly, anyway-- before testosterone.
在睾丸激素出现之前，我在很多方面都变得更有男子气概——至少是表面上的。
And now, I don't have to prove anything, so I can lay back and talk with my hands and--
现在，我不需要证明任何事情，所以我可以躺下来用手说话，然后——
--all that stuff that you're not supposed to do.
——所有那些你不应该做的事情。
So I'm still very much learning how to be a man in the world.
所以我仍然在学习如何在这个世界上做一个男人。
There's a lot to learn.
有很多东西需要学习。
Men-- walking the street is a constant battle.
男人们——走在街上是一场持续不断的战斗。
It's a constant contest.
这是一场持续不断的竞赛。
I began to notice, once I started to pass as a man, that single men walking alone down the street will veer away from their path to walk towards me, get in my space, and then veer back.
我开始注意到，一旦我开始表现得像个男人，那些独自走在街上的单身男人就会偏离他们的路线，朝我走来，进入我的空间，然后又转回来。
And it's very much like a aggressive move.
这很像一个激进的举动。
I've had men, just angry guys walking on the street, just body check me.
我遇到过男人，只是愤怒的人走在街上，只是对我进行身体检查。
So I really feel like I have to puff myself up so that people will keep their distance a little bit.
所以我真的觉得我必须把自己抬高一点，这样人们才会保持一点距离。
But if I'm off guard and I'm walking around and I'm enjoying the scenery, it's pretty much guaranteed that somebody will shove me.
但如果我毫无防备，一边走一边欣赏风景，几乎肯定有人会推我。
Were there specific things that you were hoping for?
您有什么特别希望的事情吗？
I think that the main thing that you hope for, that one hopes for, and that I hoped for when starting testosterone, was to pass as male, to be perceived by the world as a man.
我认为，你所希望的、人们所希望的、以及我在开始使用睾酮激素时所希望的主要事情就是以男性的身份出现，被世界视为一个男人。
But I do have a sort of love-hate relationship with passing that my whole deeper self becomes invisible, and my history becomes invisible.
但我确实对逝去有一种又爱又恨的感觉，我的整个更深的自我变得不可见，我的历史也变得不可见。
And I think that's hard.
我认为这很难。
It's a hard place to be.
这是一个很难的地方。
Right, right.
对，对。
Griffin Hansbury Especially because when I got my first job as a man, they didn't know anything about my past.
格里芬·汉斯伯里：特别是因为当我作为一个男人找到第一份工作时，他们对我的过去一无所知。
It was very corporate.
这是非常企业化的。
So I had to let go of any edgy clothing and facial hair and whatnot that I had before, and I became really boring.
所以我不得不放弃以前任何前卫的衣服和面部毛发以及诸如此类的东西，我变得非常无聊。
I mean, I felt like, wow, people must think I'm really boring.
我的意思是，我觉得，哇，人们一定认为我真的很无聊。
If they only knew that I'm so fascinating.
如果他们知道我如此迷人就好了。
[LAUGHTER] Throughout those almost four years, I had to conceal a lot.
[笑声] 在这近四年的时间里，我不得不隐瞒很多事情。
I would lie about where I went to college because I went to Bryn Mawr, and I couldn't say I went to Bryn Mawr.
我会在我上大学的地方撒谎，因为我去了布林莫尔，但我不能说我去了布林莫尔。
[CHUCKLES] Well, Bryn Mawr is in a bi-college relationship with Haverford College.
[咯咯笑]嗯，布林莫尔学院与哈弗福德学院是双学院关系。
And so I would say I went to Haverford, which is kind of-- I don't want to say anything bad about Haverford.
所以我想说我去了哈弗福德，这有点——我不想说哈弗福德的任何坏话。
Some of my best friends went there.
我的一些最好的朋友去了那里。
But I think Bryn Mawr is a superior school to Haverford.
但我认为布林莫尔学校比哈弗福德学校更优秀。
I do.
我愿意。
And I think it's a superior education.
我认为这是一种优质的教育。
And when I have to say I went to Haverford, it's like a little knife in my heart.
当我不得不说我去了哈弗福德时，我的心里就像插着一把小刀。
[LAUGHS] Griffin Hansbury But [CHUCKLES] no offense to my Haverford friends.
[笑]格里芬·汉斯伯里但是[笑]无意冒犯我的哈弗福德朋友。
What do you feel like the biggest thing that you do miss is?
你觉得你最怀念的事情是什么？
Hmm.
嗯。
Maybe the close relationships that I had with women.
也许是我与女性的亲密关系。
I still have close relationships with the women I've known since before T, but I don't make close relationships with new female friends.
我仍然与 T 之前认识的女性保持着密切的关系，但我不会与新的女性朋友建立密切的关系。
It's hard.
这很难。
It's hard to do.
这很难做到。
There's a barrier.
有一个障碍。
So I kind of miss being part of a cool bunch of women.
所以我有点怀念成为一群很酷的女性中的一员。
I actually like women better than men.
其实我比男人更喜欢女人。
It just so happens that I fit in more as a man.
碰巧我更适合作为一个男人。
But I think women are really cool.
但我觉得女人真的很酷。
Sisterhood is powerful-- all that stuff, so--
姐妹情谊是强大的——所有这些东西，所以——
[CHUCKLES] Yeah, yeah.
[笑] 是啊，是啊。
And what do you think is the biggest thing you've gained?
您认为您获得的最大收获是什么？
Biggest thing I've gained-- it's just so great when people call me sir, even after seven years.
我获得的最重要的事情是——即使在七年之后，当人们称我为先生时，这真是太棒了。
I don't always hear it, but it still rings a little bell inside my heart, like, oh, sir.
我并不总是听到它，但它仍然在我心中敲响小钟，就像，哦，先生。
It's wonderful.
太棒了。
And it's something that when I was a little kid, I used to wish for.
这是我小时候曾经渴望过的事情。
And turn me into a boy-- Pinocchio.
把我变成一个男孩——匹诺曹。
And you never really think it's possible.
而且你从来没有真正认为这是可能的。
But it is possible.
但这是可能的。
And the other nice thing about it is knowing that that's possible, that you can actually make this enormous leap, means that, well, then anything else must be possible, too, because this is certainly unbelievable.
另一个好处是知道这是可能的，你实际上可以实现这一巨大的飞跃，这意味着，好吧，那么其他任何事情也一定是可能的，因为这当然是令人难以置信的。
Griffin Hansbury lives in New York.
格里芬·汉斯伯里住在纽约。
He talked with our producer, Alex Blumberg.
他与我们的制片人亚历克斯·布隆伯格进行了交谈。
Griffin is near completion on a memoir about his own experience transitioning from female to male.
格里芬即将完成一本关于他自己从女性转变为男性的经历的回忆录。
He's looking for a publisher.
他正在寻找出版商。
What occurs to me is that you're in a perfect position to offer romantic advice to anybody who needs it.
我想到的是，你处于一个完美的位置，可以向任何需要的人提供浪漫的建议。
I know, I know.
我知道，我知道。
And I have a friend with a website, and we've been dying to do an online advice column called "Ask a Guy Who Used to Be a Girl."
我有一个朋友有一个网站，我们一直渴望开设一个在线建议专栏，名为“询问曾经是女孩的男人”。
[LAUGHS] Griffin Hansbury We haven't gotten it off the ground yet.
[笑] Griffin Hansbury 我们还没有把它付诸实践。
Coming up, who has the most testosterone-- the slightly femme-y host of a public radio program, his staff, or a gay man in New York City?
接下来，谁的睾酮激素最多——公共广播节目中略显女性化的主持人、他的工作人员，还是纽约市的同性恋者？
Answer in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将立即答复。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, testosterone, and just how much does it determine of our personalities and fates?
今天的节目，睾丸激素，它到底在多大程度上决定了我们的性格和命运？
Well, we've arrived at Act Three of our program.
好了，我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, Contest-osterone.
第三幕，睾酮竞赛。
At some point in putting together this week's radio show, Alex, who you heard a lot of in the first half of our program, suggested that it might be a fun thing to do and might illustrate some interesting principles about testosterone if everybody on the radio staff would get their testosterone level checked.
在整理本周的广播节目时，亚历克斯（您在我们节目的前半部分经常听到他的声音）建议，如果广播工作人员中的每个人都检查自己的睾酮水平，这可能是一件有趣的事情，并且可能会说明有关睾酮的一些有趣原理。
We could each predict who would come out as number one, number two, and so forth, based on their personalities.
我们每个人都可以根据他们的个性来预测谁会成为第一、第二等等。
And then we would compare the results with what each of us had predicted.
然后我们会将结果与我们每个人的预测进行比较。
Since men always have a lot more testosterone than women, we would do two rankings-- one for the men, one for the women.
由于男性的睾丸激素总是比女性多得多，因此我们会做两种排名——一种针对男性，一种针对女性。
We invited two of our regular contributors, David Rakoff and Sarah Vowell, to take part with us, making it five men and four women in all.
我们邀请了两位定期撰稿人 David Rakoff 和 Sarah Vowell 与我们一起参与，总共有五位男性和四位女性。
It turns out to be remarkably easy to get your testosterone assessed.
事实证明，评估睾酮水平非常容易。
You spit into a little tube twice a day and send it to a lab-- in our case, the Yerkes National Primate Research Center.
你每天向一个小管吐两次口水，然后将其送到实验室——在我们的例子中，是耶基斯国家灵长类动物研究中心。
And I think it was Jonathan and Starlee, producers on our show who you sometimes hear during stories on the air, who pointed out first that the entire enterprise might not be such a good idea.
我认为是乔纳森和斯塔利，我们节目的制片人，你有时会在广播故事中听到他们，他们首先指出整个企业可能不是一个好主意。
I just think we're opening a whole can of worms here that we don't want to be doing.
我只是认为我们在这里打开了一大堆我们不想做的蠕虫。
It's all very-- well, this whole thing's kind of a mess, diplomatic-wise.
这一切都非常——好吧，从外交角度来说，整件事有点一团糟。
How so?
怎么会这样呢？
Jonathan Goldstein Like, I mean, either we'll walk away from this finding out that Starlee has more testosterone than I do, and she'll end up being incredibly upset, and I'll be upset, and everyone will just be upset.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦：就像，我的意思是，如果我们发现斯塔莉的睾丸激素比我多，我们就会走开，她最终会感到非常沮丧，我会感到沮丧，每个人都会感到沮丧。
I mean, what do we hope to gain, really, from all of this?
我的意思是，我们真的希望从这一切中获得什么？
This whole thing is going to lead to heartbreak, somehow.
不知何故，这整件事会导致心碎。
I've been thinking a lot about it, and I can't really decide whether I want to have more or if I want to have less.
我想了很多，但我无法真正决定是想要更多还是想要更少。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Having more makes me seem like an [BLEEP]-hole.
拥有更多让我看起来像个[BLEEP]洞。
[LAUGHTER] And having not enough makes me seem like a pushover, sucker.
[笑声] 没有足够的钱让我看起来像个容易屈服的傻瓜。
For the men, I think it'll be a big deal.
对于男人来说，我认为这将是一件大事。
This is Julie, the senior producer of our program.
这是朱莉，我们节目的高级制片人。
I think it'll change all your interactions with each other.
我认为这会改变你们之间所有的互动。
You'll know, when you're talking to each other, who beat you.
当你们互相交谈时，你就会知道谁打败了你。
I think it'll change everything.
我认为这会改变一切。
Nonetheless, we marched toward the abyss.
尽管如此，我们还是走向了深渊。
To find out what personality traits actually correlate with high testosterone and low testosterone, we checked with somebody who's done a lot of research on the subject, James Dabbs of Georgia State University, author of a book called Heroes, Rogues, and Lovers-- Testosterone and Behavior.
为了找出哪些性格特征实际上与高睾酮和低睾酮相关，我们咨询了对此主题进行了大量研究的人，乔治亚州立大学的詹姆斯·达布斯（James Dabbs），他是《英雄、盗贼和情人——睾酮和行为》一书的作者。
The most simple thing, I would say, is it leads to a certain boldness and fearlessness and confidence in a person's behavior.
我想说，最简单的事情是它会导致人们对一个人的行为有一定的大胆、无畏和信心。
They tend to focus upon what they do, move forward with less conflict.
他们倾向于专注于自己所做的事情，以更少的冲突前进。
The downside is they don't pay attention to things going on around them, so they get blindsided by accidents and other things going on.
缺点是他们不注意周围发生的事情，因此他们会被事故和其他发生的事情弄得措手不及。
What are some of the misconceptions you run into?
您遇到过哪些误解？
Well, they think it makes them manly and heroic and virile and sexual, which is not really true.
嗯，他们认为这让他们变得有男子气概、英雄气概、男子气概和性感，但事实并非如此。
It doesn't take much testosterone to have sex.
发生性行为不需要太多睾丸激素。
So I mean, that's beside the point.
所以我的意思是，这不是重点。
What scientific studies can tell us is that, in general, more testosterone does not mean you're a more successful person.
科学研究可以告诉我们的是，一般来说，更多的睾丸激素并不意味着你是一个更成功的人。
In fact, blue-collar workers tend to have more testosterone than white-collar workers, and unemployed men have more than either group.
事实上，蓝领工人往往比白领工人拥有更多的睾丸激素，而失业男性则比任何一个群体都拥有更多的睾丸激素。
Actors and trial lawyers-- people who basically go on stage, in one way or another-- tend to have very high testosterone levels.
演员和出庭律师——基本上以某种方式登上舞台的人——往往具有非常高的睾丸激素水平。
Higher testosterone correlates with baldness and with bigger muscles.
较高的睾丸激素与秃头和更大的肌肉相关。
And researchers say that people with lots of testosterone have a wolfish smile.
研究人员表示，睾丸激素水平较高的人有着狼般的微笑。
And people with less testosterone have a kinder smile, and they smile more often, as if to say, don't hurt me.
而睾丸素水平较低的人，笑容会更友善，而且笑得更频繁，仿佛在说，别伤害我。
Testosterone goes up when you score a victory at something.
当你在某件事上取得胜利时，睾丸激素就会上升。
It goes down when you suffer a defeat.
当你遭遇失败时，它就会下降。
In one study of World Cup soccer fans watching a match on television, testosterone dropped in fans of the losing team and rose in the fans of the winning team.
在一项针对在电视上观看世界杯比赛的球迷的研究中，失败球队球迷的睾酮水平下降，而获胜球队球迷的睾酮水平上升。
For people, there's not a lot of difference between being in the contest and watching the contest.
对于人们来说，参加比赛和观看比赛并没有太大区别。
We can empathize with it so well.
我们可以很好地理解它。
So what would all this mean for our radio staff?
那么这一切对我们的广播工作人员意味着什么呢？
Well, when it came to predicting which of the women would have the highest testosterone, there was a clear majority in the voting.
好吧，当谈到预测哪位女性的睾丸激素水平最高时，投票结果明显占多数。
Here are Sarah Vowell, Todd, our production manager, and Wendy weighing in.
以下是莎拉·沃威尔 (Sarah Vowell)、我们的生产经理托德 (Todd) 和温迪 (Wendy) 的发言。
Julie will win.
朱莉会赢。
Todd Bachmann Julie's tough.
托德·巴赫曼朱莉很坚强。
She can certainly push me around sometimes.
她有时确实会左右我的左右。
I think Julie has the most because she is the boldest of all of us, right?
我认为朱莉拥有最多，因为她是我们所有人中最大胆的，对吧？
She says the boldest things.
她说的是最大胆的话。
When we're all together in the same place, it is clearly Julie who is the alpha of the whole group.
当我们都聚集在同一个地方时，朱莉显然是整个团队的领袖。
Though, at some point in putting together this week's radio show, Alex and Julie sat down in a studio, and he asked her to predict which women would have the highest testosterone.
不过，在整理本周的广播节目时，亚历克斯和朱莉坐在工作室里，他让她预测哪些女性的睾丸激素最高。
And here's how she lined it up.
这就是她的排列方式。
Wendy first, and then Starlee, and then Sarah, I guess.
我猜先是温迪，然后是斯塔莉，然后是莎拉。
And then?
然后呢？
Julie Snyder And then me, just passive me--
朱莉·斯奈德 然后是我，只是被动的我——
Yeah.
是的。
Julie Snyder --just taking it easy.
朱莉·斯奈德——放轻松。
Girly, girly me--
少女感十足的我——
[LAUGHS] Julie Snyder --just being feminine over here in the corner.
[笑]朱莉·斯奈德——只是在角落里表现出女性气质。
Honestly, who do I think?
说实话，我觉得谁呢？
What do you think it would mean if you won?
如果你赢了，你认为这意味着什么？
Well, then it would confirm all my worst suspicions about myself, that I'm really aggressive and pushy and a hothead.
好吧，那么这将证实我对自己的所有最严重的怀疑，即我真的很有攻击性、咄咄逼人、性急。
I fear me.
我害怕我。
Among the men, there was no favorite.
在男人中，没有最喜欢的。
You could make an argument for any of the men on the staff.
你可以为工作人员中的任何一个人提出论点。
Todd likes sports, and he isn't such a bookworm softy, like the rest of us on the staff.
托德喜欢运动，而且他不像我们其他员工那样是个软弱的书呆子。
Alex plays a lot of sports, and he gets into fights on the basketball court.
亚历克斯参加了很多运动，他在篮球场上经常打架。
Jonathan is balding, and he has a lot of muscle-- corresponds with testosterone.
乔纳森秃顶了，而且他有很多肌肉——这与睾丸激素相对应。
I host a national radio show, which must count for something, right?
我主持一个全国广播节目，这一定很重要，对吧？
But when we sat down to talk about it, it wasn't really clear exactly what else should be taken into account.
但当我们坐下来讨论这个问题时，并不清楚还应该考虑哪些因素。
Here's Jonathan.
这是乔纳森。
I don't entirely understand how this whole testosterone thing works.
我不完全明白睾酮激素是如何运作的。
It's like, who can yell the loudest, right?
就好像，谁能喊得最大声，对吧？
Who has the most rage?
谁的怒气最大？
I have rage.
我有愤怒。
I mean, unfortunately, it's like impotent rage.
我的意思是，不幸的是，这就像无能为力的愤怒。
And I don't know how that's going to rank.
我不知道排名如何。
And then, if the main thing the testosterone corresponds with is decisiveness, how does that swing the whole rating?
那么，如果睾丸激素对应的主要因素是果断，那么这会如何影响整个评级呢？
I didn't realize that the whole decision-making thing came into--
我没有意识到整个决策的过程是——
Is it making you-- Jonathan Goldstein --this whole testosterone thing.
它会让你——乔纳森·戈德斯坦——这整个睾丸激素的事情吗？
Yeah, it's making it--
是的，它正在实现——
--reevaluate?
——重新评估？
Jonathan Goldstein --complicated.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦——复杂。
Yeah, because I mean, I'm just filled with regret.
是的，因为我的意思是，我只是充满遗憾。
Again, Julie-- quick decisions, doesn't look back.
再说一次，朱莉——快速决策，不回头。
That's very true.
这是非常正确的。
Alex Blumberg Doesn't look back, I know.
我知道，亚历克斯·布隆伯格不会回头。
Same with Sarah.
莎拉也一样。
Every single.
每一个。
Jonathan Goldstein Every single.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦每一个。
I'm regretting what I'm saying right now.
我很后悔我现在说的话。
Me, too.
我也是。
Yeah.
是的。
I'm always filled with regret.
我心里总是充满遗憾。
[LAUGHTER] Ira Glass You're regretting it even as you're saying it?
[笑声] Ira Glass 即使你这么说，你也在后悔吗？
And then there's the question of David Rakoff.
然后是大卫·拉科夫的问题。
He's gay and a fan of Martha Stewart.
他是同性恋，也是玛莎·斯图尔特的粉丝。
But he's also balding, and he's worked as a professional actor, which both correspond with high testosterone levels.
但他也秃头了，而且他是一名职业演员，这都与高睾酮水平相对应。
So how do you figure that one out?
那么你如何弄清楚这一点呢？
The one thing I do worry about the testosterone is Alex told me, when I did my spit, that I had to have some Extra spearmint gum to activate my salivary glands.
我确实担心睾丸激素的一件事是亚历克斯告诉我，当我吐口水时，我必须服用一些额外的留兰香口香糖来激活我的唾液腺。
But the only thing that I could find was Extra Polar Ice, which has flavor crystals.
但我唯一能找到的是特级极地冰，它含有风味晶体。
And I worry that my sample might have flavor crystals in it.
我担心我的样品中可能含有风味晶体。
[LAUGHS] David Rakoff So in fact, I might just simply be the most refreshing.
[笑] David Rakoff 所以事实上，我可能只是最令人耳目一新的。
One notable difference between the men and the women, although none of the women wanted to have much testosterone, Alex, Todd, and I very, very much wanted to win.
男性和女性之间有一个显着的区别，尽管没有一个女性想要有太多的睾丸激素，但亚历克斯、托德和我都非常非常想赢。
Jonathan claimed he did not want to win, but none of us believe him.
乔纳森声称他不想赢，但我们没有人相信他。
And Rakoff also said that he had no interest in winning at all but then proceeded immediately-- I mean immediately-- to talk smack about his opponents in a very competitive way.
拉考夫还表示，他对获胜根本没有兴趣，但随后立即——我的意思是立即——以一种非常有竞争力的方式谈论他的对手。
And that was the state of things when we got our results from the lab just two days ago.
这就是我们两天前从实验室得到结果时的情况。
All right, well, it is two days before our broadcast day as I record this.
好吧，好吧，当我记录这个的时候，距离我们的广播日还有两天。
Our entire staff is on mic, plus contributors David Rakoff and Sarah Vowell in New York.
我们的全体工作人员都在麦克风上，还有纽约的贡献者 David Rakoff 和 Sarah Vowell。
Hello, all.
大家好。
Hi.
嗨。
Ira Glass And now, for the results.
艾拉·格拉斯 现在，我们来看结果。
I am opening the envelope.
我正在打开信封。
Wow, that's just incredible.
哇，这太不可思议了。
OK, among the men, Rakoff is number one and has twice the amount of testosterone of anybody in the group.
好吧，在男性中，拉考夫排名第一，他的睾丸激素含量是该组中任何人的两倍。
I told you.
我告诉过你了。
David Rakoff --correlation with baldness.
大卫·拉科夫——与秃头的相关性。
I voted for you, Rakoff.
我投票给你了，拉科夫。
Ira Glass Oh, everybody's trying to get in with him now that he's number one.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）哦，既然他是第一，每个人都想加入他。
Then in order, the men are-- it's Rakoff, then Alex at number two, then me, like a point behind you, Alex, then Jonathan, and then Todd, all very closely grouped together.
然后按顺序，这些人是——拉考夫，然后是第二名的亚历克斯，然后是我，就像你后面的一个点，亚历克斯，然后是乔纳森，然后是托德，所有人都非常紧密地聚集在一起。
As any of us-- the gay Canadian Jew living in Manhattan.
正如我们任何一个人一样——居住在曼哈顿的加拿大同性恋犹太人。
OK, we really have to dispense with the Canadian.
好吧，我们真的必须放弃加拿大人了。
Actually, that is noncorollary.
其实，这是不必然的。
Believe me.
相信我。
What are the numbers exactly?
具体数字是多少？
What is it for-- what's Rakoff?
它的用途是什么——拉科夫是什么？
Oh my god.
天哪。
Ira Glass When I looked at the women's results in the envelope, even though she is seven months pregnant, Julie was on top, as we all suspected.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 当我查看信封中女性的结果时，尽管她已经怀孕七个月，但正如我们都怀疑的那样，朱莉处于领先地位。
That's hard.
那很难。
That's hard.
那很难。
It makes me feel really bossy and aggressive.
这让我感觉非常专横和咄咄逼人。
Now, did they say that the pregnancy would affect it at all?
现在，他们说怀孕会影响它吗？
Alex, you talked-- Sarah Vowell She says, trying to make sure you get in that whole girly pregnancy thing.
亚历克斯，你说话了——莎拉·沃威尔她说，试图确保你参与整个怀孕的事情。
Yeah, the fact that I'm able to bear children, the greatest gift a woman can have.
是的，事实上我能够生孩子，这是一个女人能拥有的最伟大的礼物。
[LAUGHTER] Ira Glass I have to say, Wendy and Todd, the lowest-scoring woman and man on the staff, really did not seem very happy about this whole thing by the end.
[笑声] Ira Glass 我不得不说，Wendy 和 Todd，工作人员中得分最低的女性和男性，到最后似乎对整件事真的不太高兴。
Todd, like most of the men on the staff, had never been seen as especially manly during his life.
托德和大多数员工一样，一生中从未被视为特别有男子气概。
But he thought maybe here, maybe here in this group, compared to the rest of us, he might at least stand a chance.
但他想也许在这里，也许在这个团队中，与我们其他人相比，他至少可能有机会。
Someone would be girlier than I.
有人会比我更少女。
If I can't be the most manly in public radio, where the hell can I be the most manly?
如果我不能成为公共电台中最有男子气概的人，那我到底能在哪里成为最有男子气概的人呢？
I kind of wish this was SportsCenter because then I'd be OK.
我有点希望这是体育中心，因为那样我就没事了。
Out of all my fellow staff members at SportsCenter, OK, I could be the one with the least testosterone.
在体育中心的所有同事中，好吧，我可能是睾丸激素最少的人。
But in public radio--
但在公共广播中——
We should get them to spit.
我们应该让他们吐口水。
Is it a real place, SportsCenter?
这是一个真实的地方吗，体育中心？
Is that a thing?
这是一件事吗？
Now, see, that's not fair.
现在，看，这不公平。
How can he have the most testosterone and not know what SportsCenter is?
他怎么可能拥有最多的睾丸激素却不知道SportsCenter是什么？
I know what SportsCenter is.
我知道体育中心是什么。
The people on our staff who scored low are feeling rather-- they're feeling terrible about it.
我们员工中得分较低的人对此感觉相当糟糕。
I know them.
我认识他们。
Ira Glass What should I say to them?
艾拉·格拉斯 我该对他们说什么？
I hated to measure them.
我讨厌测量它们。
I just knew that would happen.
我只知道那会发生。
It always happens.
它总是会发生。
I told them that.
我告诉他们。
[LAUGHS] Well, they are what they are.
[笑]嗯，他们就是这样。
Are they in any way different?
它们有什么不同吗？
After our test, James Dabbs reminded me that it was important to remember that any individual person might not conform to the stereotypes of who has higher testosterone.
测试结束后，詹姆斯·达布斯提醒我，重要的是要记住，任何人都可能不符合睾酮水平较高的刻板印象。
It's not the final answer as to what you're like.
这并不是关于你是什么样的人的最终答案。
I tested a stuntman in a movie set once, and he came out low in testosterone and was terribly unhappy about being low in testosterone.
我曾经在电影片场测试过一位替身演员，结果他的睾丸激素水平很低，并且对睾丸激素水平低感到非常不满。
The fact is he still was a stuntman and did all the work that other people couldn't do, so he shouldn't have been focusing upon that testosterone.
事实上，他仍然是一名替身演员，做了其他人做不到的所有工作，所以他不应该把注意力集中在睾丸激素上。
I think to focus upon the testosterone is the wrong thing to do.
我认为专注于睾酮是错误的做法。
Now, when you tried to convince him that he shouldn't feel bad about it, did he find that persuasive at all?
现在，当你试图说服他不应该为此感到难过时，他觉得这有说服力吗？
No. No, he was just unhappy.
不，不，他只是不高兴。
Act Four: Learning To Shut Up Ira Glass Act Four, Learning to Shut Up.
第四幕：学会闭嘴 艾拉·格拉斯 第四幕，学会闭嘴。
So we thought we would end today's program the same way we began-- with the story of a 15-year-old boy.
所以我们想以一个 15 岁男孩的故事开始的方式来结束今天的节目。
We had this story about one with his mom's questions about his maleness, as his body floods with adolescent hormones.
我们有这样一个故事，关于一个人的妈妈问他的男性特征，因为他的身体充满了青春期荷尔蒙。
His mom, Miriam Toews, tells the story.
他的妈妈 Miriam Toews 讲述了这个故事。
First off, his hair is red and shaggy and longish, and he's pale and slim and 6 feet tall.
首先，他的头发是红色的、蓬松的、略长的，他面色苍白、苗条，身高 6 英尺。
Music is everything to him, which makes sense because he's 15.
音乐对他来说就是一切，这是有道理的，因为他才 15 岁。
I was 22 when he was born.
他出生时我22岁。
I'd never had brothers or any close male relatives, and I'd always dreamed of having a brother or a son.
我从来没有兄弟或任何男性近亲，但我一直梦想有一个兄弟或儿子。
The idea of having a boy in my family was strange and exotic.
我家有一个男孩的想法很奇怪而且充满异国情调。
When he was born, it was like I had given birth to a llama or something.
当他出生时，就像我生下了一只美洲驼什么的。
All my girlfriends came to visit me and him in the hospital.
我所有的女朋友都来医院看望我和他。
And I took them down to the second floor nursery, and we stared at him in awe from behind a glass window.
我把他们带到二楼的托儿所，我们从玻璃窗后面敬畏地看着他。
That's him, I said, with the orange fuzz on his head.
就是他，我说，头上长着橙色的绒毛。
He was lying naked and spread-eagled under a bright heat lamp.
他赤裸地躺在明亮的热灯下。
He seemed very content.
他看起来很满足。
My friend, Carol, gasped and said, oh my god, he's got the biggest balls I've ever seen in my life.
我的朋友卡罗尔喘着气说，天哪，他有我一生中见过的最大的蛋蛋。
We all started laughing our heads off.
我们都开始笑得前仰后合。
And then the nurse came and told us his scrotum would shrink to normal size in a few days.
然后护士过来告诉我们，几天后他的阴囊就会缩小到正常大小。
I haven't seen him naked in years, but it still often feels, when I look at him, that I'm gazing at an odd creature from behind a glass.
我已经很多年没有见过他赤身裸体了，但当我看着他时，我仍然常常感觉自己是在玻璃后面凝视着一个奇怪的生物。
Yes.
是的。
Miriam Toews And what do you think about them?
Miriam Toews 你对他们有什么看法？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Miriam Toews All his life, Owen's been a quiet kid-- not sullen but just rather silent.
米里亚姆·托斯（Miriam Toews） 欧文一生都是一个安静的孩子——不是闷闷不乐，而是相当沉默。
When he was a baby and I'd be pushing him around in his stroller, people would stop and crouch down and talk to him and expect him to laugh and smile.
当他还是个婴儿的时候，我推着他推着婴儿车走来走去，人们会停下来蹲下来和他说话，并期待他大笑。
And all he'd do was sigh and stare at them.
他所做的只是叹息并盯着他们。
When he got a little older and went over to his friends' places to play and it was time for him to go home, he just got up and walked right out the door to the car.
等他长大一点，去朋友家玩，到了回家的时间，他就起身，径直出了门，往车上走去。
He didn't say, hey, thanks for having me, or next time, we'll play at my place, or even goodbye.
他没有说，嘿，谢谢你邀请我，或者下次我们会在我的地方玩，甚至没有说再见。
We'd be driving home, and I'd be trying to explain to him that it seemed rude, and that sometimes, we just had to say certain things at certain times.
我们开车回家，我试图向他解释这似乎很粗鲁，有时我们不得不在某些时候说某些事情。
It was polite and expected.
这是礼貌和预期的。
He'd just sigh and nod and kick the dash or stick his head entirely out the window.
他只是叹口气，点点头，踢一下仪表板，或者把头完全伸出窗外。
But back then, I could figure out what was going on in his head, even if he didn't come right out and say it, like when he was three, and he didn't want me to go out.
但那时，我可以弄清楚他脑子里在想什么，即使他没有直接说出来，就像他三岁时一样，而且他不想让我出去。
Instead of grabbing my leg or having a tantrum or something, he'd hide my shoes and then sit on the couch, pretending to read the newspaper, while I searched all over the place.
他不会抓住我的腿或发脾气什么的，而是把我的鞋子藏起来，然后坐在沙发上假装读报纸，而我则到处寻找。
When he was eight and angry and sitting in a tree and throwing stones at the car or something, I'd go outside, knowing it would be a matter of minutes before he'd start to cry and then slowly spill his guts about whatever series of events it was that led to his meltdown and that the whole scene would end with hugs and apologies and probably a large muscle activity, like him cheerfully taking shots at my head with a soccer ball.
当他八岁的时候，生气地坐在树上，向汽车扔石头什么的，我会出去，知道几分钟后他就会开始哭泣，然后慢慢地吐露他的内脏，无论是什么一系列事件导致了他的崩溃，整个场景将以拥抱和道歉结束，可能还会有大规模的肌肉活动，就像他兴高采烈地用足球朝我的头开枪一样。
Now, though, the signs are harder, if not impossible, to read.
但现在，这些标志即使不是不可能，也更难读懂了。
I'm not sure there are any, actually.
实际上我不确定是否有。
And I have no idea where to begin my search.
我不知道从哪里开始我的搜索。
What do you think girls think about you when they think about you?
你认为当女孩想到你时他们会想到你什么？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Nothing.
什么也没有。
Miriam Toews You think no girl ever thinks anything about you?
Miriam Toews 你认为没有女孩会想到你吗？
Maybe.
也许吧。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Miriam Toews He brought 85 CDs with him for a family road trip that would last 11 days.
Miriam Toews 他随身携带了 85 张 CD，准备进行为期 11 天的家庭公路旅行。
He also brought his sketchbook, which started out as an art class project and has since evolved into a kind of diary, I think.
他还带来了他的素描本，我认为它最初是作为一个艺术课项目，后来演变成了一种日记。
He tends to write things down like, "Jesus, I got to find someone irrational," or, "The [BLEEP] I'm passing off as writing is slowly killing me."
他倾向于写下一些东西，比如“天哪，我得找一个不理性的人”，或者“我在写作中冒充的[BLEEP]正在慢慢杀死我。”
The first day of our road trip through North Dakota to South, the music war started.
我们从北达科他州到南方的公路旅行的第一天，音乐大战就开始了。
His 12-year-old sister, Georgia, claimed the very back seat of the minivan and was content to lie there, surrounded by nail polish and beads and thread and Hershey Kisses and Archie comics, and listen to her music on her Discman, mostly R&B stuff, Destiny's Child and the Save the Last Dance soundtrack.
他 12 岁的妹妹 Georgia 占据了小货车的最后一个座位，她很满足地躺在那儿，周围都是指甲油、珠子和线、好时之吻和阿奇漫画，用她的 Discman 听她的音乐，主要是 R&B 音乐、《命运之子》和《拯救最后之舞》的配乐。
My husband, Cassidy, and I sat in the front, and Owen sat on the seat right behind us so he could listen to his CDs on the stereo.
我和我的丈夫卡西迪坐在前面，欧文坐在我们后面的座位上，这样他就可以在音响上听他的 CD。
We tell him to listen to them on his Discman, which he did sometimes, but then he'd miss out on our sporadic conversations, which he enjoyed either participating in or mocking.
我们告诉他用他的 Discman 听他们的声音，他有时也会这么做，但随后他就会错过我们零星的对话，他喜欢参与或嘲笑这些对话。
Sometimes he'd give us a choice of his CDs to play.
有时他会让我们选择他的 CD 来播放。
Nirvana, he'd say.
涅槃，他会说。
You guys like Nirvana, right?
你们喜欢涅槃，对吧？
Yeah, but the unplugged one, we'd say.
是的，但我们会说，是未插电的。
Oh, Lord, help me now, he'd say.
哦，主啊，现在就帮助我吧，他会说。
He'd pop a dozen CDs into the player-- They Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, At the Drive-In, other stuff.
他会把十几张 CD 放入播放器中——《他们会通过死亡之路认识我们》、《黑色叛逆摩托车俱乐部》、《汽车影院》等。
And we'd listen to half a song from each one and go, nope, nope, nope.
我们会听每个人的半首歌，然后说，不，不，不。
I had wanted to learn more about him from his music.
我想从他的音乐中更多地了解他。
I was pretty sure his lyrics would tell me more about him than he would.
我很确定他的歌词会告诉我更多关于他的事情，而不是他自己。
But the problem was I couldn't understand most of the lyrics, and none of his CDs, which he'd bootlegged, had liner notes.
但问题是我无法理解大部分歌词，而且他盗版的所有 CD 都没有歌词。
We asked him if he didn't miss having liner notes, and he said, man, liner notes.
我们问他是否不怀念班轮笔记，他说，伙计，班轮笔记。
You guys have this unnatural relationship with your liner notes.
你们和你们的班轮笔记有这种不自然的关系。
Mm.
毫米。
I like some of the lyrics from the Pixies.
我喜欢 Pixies 的一些歌词。
Can you say some of the lyrics from the Pixies?
你能说出 Pixies 的一些歌词吗？
"You're so pretty when you're unfaithful to me."
“当你对我不忠时，你是如此美丽。”
I don't know.
我不知道。
I just thought it was funny.
我只是觉得这很有趣。
When Owen was little, I discovered I could get him to do anything by timing him.
当欧文还小的时候，我发现我可以通过给他计时来让他做任何事情。
Go get your jacket, I'd say, or, clean up your toys, quick.
我想说，去拿你的夹克，或者，快点清理你的玩具。
I'll time you.
我给你计时。
He loved competing with himself and beating his old records, even if I just made up times.
他喜欢与自己竞争并打破他的旧纪录，即使我只是弥补时间。
And it evolved into a huge, competitive, sports-loving thing that I still don't really understand or enjoy.
它演变成一个巨大的、竞争性的、热爱运动的事情，但我仍然不太理解或喜欢。
That timing thing didn't work at all with Georgia.
这个时间安排对佐治亚州来说根本行不通。
She'd just look up at me and say, what do you mean, time me?
她只是抬头看着我说，给我计时是什么意思？
What for?
做什么的？
The difference between him and Georgia in the talking department is huge.
他和乔治亚在谈话方面的差别是巨大的。
Georgia will come home from school and literally reenact her entire day so that she's telling me about it almost in real time, hour after hour.
乔治娅放学回家后，会重演她一整天的经历，这样她就几乎实时地、一个小时又一个小时地告诉我这件事。
Owen, on the other hand, might tell me that his day was good, even if it was bad, but usually, he just shrugs and makes an "I don't know" kind of sound.
另一方面，欧文可能会告诉我他今天过得很好，即使很糟糕，但通常他只是耸耸肩，发出“我不知道”的声音。
And then he'll head down to the basement and play his guitar.
然后他会去地下室弹吉他。
So some of your friends have girlfriends.
所以你的一些朋友有女朋友了。
And do you ever think that you'd like to have a girlfriend?
你有没有想过你想要一个女朋友？
[CHUCKLES] Yeah.
[轻笑]是的。
Miriam Toews What do you think they think?
米里亚姆·托斯 你觉得他们怎么想？
How would they describe you to their friends, do you think?
你认为他们会如何向他们的朋友描述你？
Mm.
毫米。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Miriam Toews Do you think you do know, but you just don't really want to talk about it with me?
Miriam Toews：你认为你确实知道，但你只是不想和我谈论它吗？
I can dig it.
我可以挖它。
I've learned over time not to worry too much about his silence, although it used to drive me crazy.
随着时间的推移，我学会了不要太担心他的沉默，尽管这曾经让我发疯。
I wondered if maybe he'd turn out to be a psychopath, although I'm not sure why I associate evil with silence.
我想知道他是否会成为一个精神病患者，尽管我不确定为什么我将邪恶与沉默联系在一起。
Anyway, I'm getting better with it.
无论如何，我正在变得更好。
Cassidy often reassures me by saying stuff like, it's a guy thing, or, he's a 15-year-old boy.
卡西迪经常用这样的话来让我放心：这是男人的事，或者，他是一个 15 岁的男孩。
What do you expect?
你期望什么？
He told me that when he was Owen's age, he sat in his bedroom by himself for hours on end, typing page after page of angry vitriol against the world on an old manual typewriter until his fingers bled.
他告诉我，当他在欧文这个年纪的时候，他一个人坐在卧室里连续几个小时，在一台旧手动打字机上一页一页地写着对世界愤怒的尖酸刻薄，直到手指流血。
And he seems really happy now.
而且他现在看起来真的很开心。
I realize my kids sound like boy and girl stereotypes.
我意识到我的孩子听起来像男孩和女孩的刻板印象。
Owen is taciturn and into sports, and Georgia is chatty and prone to the occasional crying jag.
欧文沉默寡言，热衷于运动，而乔治亚则很健谈，偶尔会哭闹。
But it really just is that way.
但事实确实就是这样。
I don't know why.
我不知道为什么。
It's not like we planned it.
这不像我们计划的那样。
I don't want to think it's because he's a boy and she's a girl.
我不想认为这是因为他是男孩而她是女孩。
But if it is, who cares?
但如果是的话，谁在乎呢？
When Georgia was upset about something at school the other day and face down on the couch, he sat on the floor beside her and said, it's hard being a girl, isn't it?
有一天，当乔治亚在学校因为某件事而心烦意乱，脸朝下坐在沙发上时，他坐在她旁边的地板上说，作为一个女孩很难，不是吗？
I'm not sure that it's any easier being a boy.
我不确定做一个男孩是否会更容易。
And I don't know what he does exactly when he's sad, other than listening to music.
我不知道他难过的时候除了听音乐之外会做什么。
Except for once, it's been years since I've seen him cry.
除了一次，我已经很多年没有见过他哭了。
I'd kill to read his notebook.
我很想读他的笔记本。
Is there anything about girls that you envy?
女生有什么让你羡慕的地方吗？
Nothing.
没有什么。
Miriam Toews Well, what about their-- it seems-- their ability to talk about how they feel about things easier?
Miriam Toews 嗯，他们——看起来——能够更轻松地谈论他们对事物的感受的能力怎么样？
I definitely envy that.
我绝对羡慕这一点。
Miriam Toews We were all pretty quiet as we drove up to Colorado Springs on our way to Denver.
Miriam Toews 当我们驱车前往科罗拉多斯普林斯前往丹佛的途中，我们都很安静。
The sun was shining, but it was raining a bit.
阳光明媚，但下着小雨。
And we saw not one, not two, but three dead cows in fields, stiff, with their legs in the air, and it bothered us.
我们在田野里看到不是一头、不是两头而是三头死牛，它们僵硬地、双腿悬在空中，这让我们很困扰。
After the third dead cow, I played my favorite song of the summer, Gillian Welch's "Elvis Presley Blues." It's a wistful song about the King as a 15-year-old boy, just starting out with a big rock and roll dream in a shirt his mother made.
在第三头死牛之后，我播放了这个夏天我最喜欢的歌曲，吉莉安·韦尔奇的《埃尔维斯·普雷斯利布鲁斯》。这是一首令人怀念的歌曲，讲述了国王作为一个 15 岁男孩穿着他母亲做的衬衫开始实现摇滚梦想的故事。
And it was kind of miraculous because Owen actually liked it, too.
这有点神奇，因为欧文实际上也喜欢它。
For me, it was a song about a boy becoming a man and leaving home, and it made me a little sad.
对我来说，这是一首关于一个男孩成为男人并离开家的歌，这让我有点悲伤。
I think Owen was probably hearing it as a song about a cool 15-year-old who was about to conquer the world.
我认为 Owen 听到的可能是一首关于一个即将征服世界的 15 岁男孩的歌曲。
But really, I haven't got a clue how he heard the song or how it made him feel.
但说实话，我不知道他是如何听到这首歌的，也不知道这首歌给他带来了怎样的感受。
All he said was that it had a decent pop sensibility.
他只说它具有不错的流行感。
And then he was quiet.
然后他就安静了。
These days, the more I press him for information, the faster he shuts right down.
这些天，我越向他询问信息，他就越快关闭。
The other day, I tried a new approach-- his.
有一天，我尝试了一种新方法——他的。
I was annoyed by a bunch of things, and rather than broadcast it all over the house, I sat on the couch and glared at the TV and sighed periodically.
我被一堆事情惹恼了，我没有把它传遍整个房子，而是坐在沙发上，盯着电视，时不时地叹一口气。
And strangely, Owen responded.
奇怪的是，欧文回应了。
He observed my weirdness for a while and then left.
他观察了我一阵子的奇怪，然后就离开了。
Then he came back and looked at me again and said one word, "Mom," but in such a nice way that I smiled and said, "Owen." And that was it.
然后他回来了，再次看着我，说了一个词，“妈妈”，但语气非常好，我微笑着说，“欧文。”就是这样。
And then we sat there for a while, silently.
然后我们静静地坐了一会儿。
I was surprised by how completely comfortable it felt.
我对它的舒适感感到惊讶。
And then, finally, wordlessly, he got up and took his laundry upstairs.
最后，他一言不发地起身，把要洗的衣服拿到楼上。
Miriam Toews is a writer in Winnipeg.
米里亚姆·托斯 (Miriam Toews) 是温尼伯的一位作家。
She wrote The X Letters in one of our programs.
她在我们的一个节目中写了《X 字母》。
Her latest book is called Swing Low.
她的最新书名为《Swing Low》。
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Alex Blumberg and myself with Wendy Dorr, Jonathan Goldstein, and Starlee Kine, senior producer Julie Snyder.
图片来源：Ira Glass 嗯，我们的节目今天由 Alex Blumberg 和我本人以及 Wendy Dorr、Jonathan Goldstein 和 Starlee Kine 以及高级制作人 Julie Snyder 共同制作。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Chris Neary.
托德·巴赫曼 (Todd Bachmann) 和克里斯·尼尔里 (Chris Neary) 为制作提供帮助。
Special thanks today to El Jefe, to [?
今天特别感谢 El Jefe，感谢 [?
Buzzy ?] [?
嗡嗡声？] [？
Goldstein, ?] to Robert Powell, to Jim Nelson at GQ, our Daniel Foster, Sarah Vowell, and David Rakoff, who I swear we will never mess with again.
戈尔茨坦，？]致罗伯特·鲍威尔，致《GQ》的吉姆·尼尔森，致我们的丹尼尔·福斯特、莎拉·沃威尔和大卫·拉科夫，我发誓我们再也不会惹恼他们了。
To buy a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago, 312-832-3380, or visit our website, where you can also listen to our programs for free, thisamericanlife.org.
要购买此节目或我们任何节目的磁带，请致电芝加哥的 WBEZ，电话：312-832-3380，或访问我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您也可以在其中免费收听我们的节目。
This American Life comes to you from the city of Chicago, Richard M.
《美国生活》来自芝加哥市，理查德·M.
Daley, mayor.
戴利，市长。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Funding for our show comes from the listeners of WBEZ Chicago.
我们的节目的资金来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的听众。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by Mr. Torey Malatia, who owns a very, very big radio.
Torey Malatia 先生对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他拥有一台非常非常大的收音机。
This is what he says about it.
他是这么说的。
This big, shuddering, warm, inanimate object would just drive me crazy.
这个巨大的、颤抖的、温暖的、无生命的物体只会让我发疯。
It was very erotic to me.
这对我来说非常色情。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
Announcer PRI, Public Radio International.
国际公共广播电台 PRI 播音员。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。