211: Naming Names - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #211 | May 3, 2002 211: Naming Names Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 211 集 | 2002 年 5 月 3 日 211：命名 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass When you name names, when you snitch, when you drop a dime, when you shop somebody, when you're a canary or a rat or a stool pigeon, when you squeal, or when you tattle, often you prefer to remain anonymous.
Prologue Ira Glass When you name names, when you snitch, when you drop a dime, when you shop somebody, when you're a canary or a rat or a stool pigeon, when you squeal, or when you tattle, often you prefer to remain anonymous.
And so the next voice that you're going to hear is somebody whose name you will never know.
因此，您将听到的下一个声音是一个您永远不知道名字的人。
And when her story begins, she is just another hapless, nearsighted citizen like you and me.
当她的故事开始时，她只是另一个像你我一样不幸、近视的公民。
I went to get laser vision correction.
我去接受激光视力矫正。
And following the surgery, one of my eyes turned out totally fine, but the other one had a problem, double vision.
手术后，我的一只眼睛完全没有问题，但另一只眼睛却出现了问题，出现了复视。
So that was just kind of strange.
所以这有点奇怪。
And under the contract, they tell you in the agreement that it may not turn out perfectly.
而且根据合同，他们在协议中告诉你，结果可能并不完美。
But within the first year, if there are any problems, you are offered free touch ups for the procedure.
但在第一年内，如果出现任何问题，您将获得免费的手术修饰。
So she waited several months after the first surgery for her eyes to heal, did everything her doctor said she should.
因此，在第一次手术后，她等待了几个月，让眼睛痊愈，并按照医生的指示做了一切。
She even went to a second eye doctor who checked her out, told her, "No big deal." She was an easy case.
她甚至去找了第二位眼科医生，检查后告诉她：“没什么大不了的。” She was an easy case.
"Tell your regular doctor to sit you in the chair, set the laser to these coordinates." The second doctor actually gave her the right settings.
“告诉你的常规医生让你坐在椅子上，将激光设置到这些坐标。”第二位医生实际上给了她正确的设置。
"And you will be all patched up." So she makes an appointment for surgery with her original doctor.
“然后你就会痊愈了。”因此，她与原来的医生预约了手术。
And on the day of, I was very shocked.
那天，我非常震惊。
I was told by the doctor that I could not get the surgery after all and that he was recommending a totally different course of treatment.
医生告诉我，我终究无法接受手术，他建议采用完全不同的治疗方案。
He wanted me to close my eyes and then press my thumb on my eyelid a couple of times a day, which just seemed a little odd to me.
他要我闭上眼睛，然后每天将拇指按在眼睑上几次，这对我来说似乎有点奇怪。
You'd think that science had gotten further than that.
你可能会认为科学已经比这更进一步了。
Exactly.
确切地。
That just seemed bizarre.
That just seemed bizarre.
So I questioned him about it.
于是我就此事询问了他。
And he started to get very agitated.
And he started to get very agitated.
And he was talking about how he was an expert in this field, and he knew what he was doing.
他正在谈论他是这个领域的专家，他知道自己在做什么。
And if I went to any other eye doctor anywhere else who was an expert in the field, they would tell me the exact same thing.
如果我去找其他地方的眼科医生，他们是该领域的专家，他们也会告诉我完全相同的事情。
And so I brought up the fact that I had the second opinion.
所以我提出了我有第二种意见的事实。
And he got more upset.
他变得更加心烦意乱。
His voice just got really loud-- and just saying really weird things.
他的声音变得非常大——并且说着非常奇怪的事情。
He started bringing up the fact that he had a lawsuit.
他开始提起他提起诉讼的事实。
He started bringing up how everyone wants to be like Michael Jordan, but not everyone can.
他开始提出每个人都想成为迈克尔·乔丹，但并不是每个人都能做到。
It was bizarre.
这很奇怪。
He was just throwing out all these weird statements at me.
他只是向我抛出所有这些奇怪的言论。
Wait, wait, wait.
等等，等等，等等。
He was bringing up the fact that he had a lawsuit?
他是在提起他打官司的事实吗？
Yes, he did.
是的，他做到了。
He was saying that he tries to help people.
He was saying that he tries to help people.
But he tried to help this person, and now he's getting sued for it because it didn't turn out well.
但他试图帮助这个人，现在他因此被起诉，因为结果并不好。
You get the picture.
你明白了。
He yells, she cries.
他喊叫，她哭泣。
She quietly notices that all of his other patients, like her, are immigrants.
她悄悄地注意到他所有的其他病人和她一样都是移民。
And she wonders if he's just in business to take advantage of people, that he's just going to stall her until the year has run out for her free touch up, so she'll have to pay.
And she wonders if he's just in business to take advantage of people, that he's just going to stall her until the year has run out for her free touch up, so she'll have to pay.
They call the AMA, they lodge a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, they call the Department of Professional Practices.
他们致电 AMA，向商业改进局投诉，还致电专业实践部。
Nothing gets results.
什么都得不到结果。
It's frustrating.
真令人沮丧。
Months go by, and remember, she is still seeing double every minute she's awake.
几个月过去了，请记住，她醒着的每一分钟仍然看到重影。
So I was very upset.
So I was very upset.
And weirdly enough, I was talking about this with my therapist.
奇怪的是，我正在和我的治疗师讨论这个问题。
And she was the one who suggested getting revenge.
而她就是建议报仇的人。
She said that a great way to mess with someone's head, even though you don't necessarily see the results, was to call the IRS on them.
She said that a great way to mess with someone's head, even though you don't necessarily see the results, was to call the IRS on them.
And so--
所以——
I did write a letter.
I did write a letter.
I did write three letters in fact.
I did write three letters in fact.
OK, let us just say here, straight up, that this is very, very wrong.
好吧，让我们直接说，这是非常非常错误的。
There is no two ways about it.
There is no two ways about it.
Starting with the fact that for a therapist to instruct a patient on how to mess with someone's head is pretty much a prima facie violation of the Hippocratic oath, if therapists even take the Hippocratic oath.
Starting with the fact that for a therapist to instruct a patient on how to mess with someone's head is pretty much a prima facie violation of the Hippocratic oath, if therapists even take the Hippocratic oath.
But she did not stop there.
But she did not stop there.
And then the other thing that she suggested was--
然后她建议的另一件事是——
Your therapist, right?
你的治疗师，对吗？
Anonymous Yes.
匿名 是的。
--was to call building violations on him.
--was to call building violations on him.
Yeah, which she said was another great way to mess with someone's head, because she was saying that no matter how stupid the offense is or how minor it is, you just have to fix it.
Yeah, which she said was another great way to mess with someone's head, because she was saying that no matter how stupid the offense is or how minor it is, you just have to fix it.
He had messed with her.
He had messed with her.
He had been imperious.
He had been imperious.
He had been immovable and irrational.
He had been immovable and irrational.
And now he would face the most imperious, immovable, irrational foe imaginable, the government of the United States of America in its federal and local manifestations.
And now he would face the most imperious, immovable, irrational foe imaginable, the government of the United States of America in its federal and local manifestations.
There would be auditors.
There would be auditors.
He would have to locate old financial papers.
He would have to locate old financial papers.
Meanwhile, the building inspectors would have him spending hours on hold waiting for this office or that office to tell him what forms and permits.
Meanwhile, the building inspectors would have him spending hours on hold waiting for this office or that office to tell him what forms and permits.
You know what I'm talking about here.
You know what I'm talking about here.
And yes, this is wrong, very, very tragically wrong.
是的，这是错误的，非常非常可悲的错误。
But who among us has not been in some situation, where the phone company, or some contractor, or the doctor, whoever, has messed with us enough that we want revenge?
But who among us has not been in some situation, where the phone company, or some contractor, or the doctor, whoever, has messed with us enough that we want revenge?
I think there are lots of us who would feel like this woman in that situation.
我想我们很多人在那种情况下都会有和这位女士一样的感觉。
We would call in the feds, and we would not feel bad about it.
我们会打电话给联邦政府，我们不会对此感到难过。
Either I don't have a conscience or I just am so firm in my belief that he deserves it.
要么是我没有良心，要么是我坚信他罪有应得。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass And you had no other recourse?
Ira Glass And you had no other recourse?
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass Now I have to say, I think this kind of case is very rare.
Ira Glass 现在我不得不说，我认为这种案例非常罕见。
I think usually, usually, when people turn in other people to the government, there is a twinge of guilt or often more than a twinge.
我认为，通常情况下，当人们向政府举报其他人时，都会有一种愧疚感，或者常常不仅仅是一种愧疚感。
Today on our radio program, we bring you several stories of people who named names.
今天，在我们的广播节目中，我们为您带来几个指名道姓的故事。
And in all those stories, the accuser is just as torn up about it as the accused.
在所有这些故事中，原告和被告一样对此感到心碎。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our program today in three revelatory acts.
Our program today in three revelatory acts.
Act One, How Britain Nearly Saved America.
第一幕，英国如何差点拯救了美国。
In that act, Jon Ronson tells the true story of his personal role in a post-September 11 news crisis that you are very familiar with and his misgivings about his role.
In that act, Jon Ronson tells the true story of his personal role in a post-September 11 news crisis that you are very familiar with and his misgivings about his role.
Act Two, One Crucible Leads to Another.
第二幕，一个坩埚导致另一个坩埚。
In that act, a conversation from 1952 as the House Un-American Activities Committee was asking people to squeal on Communist friends and colleagues.
In that act, a conversation from 1952 as the House Un-American Activities Committee was asking people to squeal on Communist friends and colleagues.
And how, even today, it is hard to agree on what was said in private.
即使在今天，人们也很难就私下所说的话达成一致。
Act Three, Beating the Erasers.
Act Three, Beating the Erasers.
How a small town in Tennessee rose up against a few middle-aged grade school teachers very recently.
最近，田纳西州的一个小镇如何反抗几名中年小学教师。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, How Britain Nearly Saved America.
Act One, How Britain Nearly Saved America.
Well, Jon Ronson has appeared on our program before.
嗯，乔恩·罗森以前曾出现在我们的节目中。
Over the last few years, he has done a series of documentaries for British television about political and religious extremists, stories that are remarkable because they are often surprisingly funny, given the subject matter.
Over the last few years, he has done a series of documentaries for British television about political and religious extremists, stories that are remarkable because they are often surprisingly funny, given the subject matter.
And he tells this story which occurred in the immediate wake of September 11.
他讲述了这个发生在 9 月 11 日之后的故事。
It was October, and anthrax scares and terrible anthrax news were everyday occurrences.
那是十月，炭疽恐慌和可怕的炭疽新闻每天都在发生。
Jon was in London at the time, where he lives.
Jon was in London at the time, where he lives.
On a Saturday night last October, my friend and producer John Sergeant called me.
去年十月的一个星期六晚上，我的朋友兼制片人约翰·瑟金特给我打电话。
"Hi, Jon," he said.
"Hi, Jon," he said.
I recognized a delicate blend of urgency, paranoia, and panic in his voice.
我听出了他声音中微妙地混合着紧迫、偏执和恐慌。
You'd have to be a connoisseur of his neurotic vocal patterns to spot it.
你必须熟悉他神经质的声音模式才能发现它。
I wondered what it was this time.
我想知道这次是什么。
During our years together documenting extremist groups, we've become variously convinced we're being followed by the Mafia, Aryan Nations, the BATF, and the CIA.
During our years together documenting extremist groups, we've become variously convinced we're being followed by the Mafia, Aryan Nations, the BATF, and the CIA.
It wouldn't be fair to blame the extremists and say that all their paranoia has rubbed off on me and John.
It wouldn't be fair to blame the extremists and say that all their paranoia has rubbed off on me and John.
The fact is we've always been neurotic.
事实上，我们一直都很神经质。
If anything, we tend to connect with our interviewees over a shared sense of paranoia.
If anything, we tend to connect with our interviewees over a shared sense of paranoia.
The irony is that my neurosis comes, I guess, from being Jewish, whereas theirs usually manifests itself in a hatred of the Jews.
具有讽刺意味的是，我猜我的神经症来自犹太人，而他们的神经症通常表现为对犹太人的仇恨。
John's got no excuse.
John's got no excuse.
He's Church of England.
He's Church of England.
He's just a neurotic.
He's just a neurotic.
But for all our regular descents into paranoia, nothing bad has ever actually happened to us.
尽管我们经常陷入偏执狂，但我们实际上并没有发生过什么不好的事情。
And I was getting tired of all the panicky phone calls.
我厌倦了所有惊慌失措的电话。
"I think," said John, "that we may know who's been sending all the anthrax." "Who?" I asked.
“我想，”约翰说，“这样我们就可以知道是谁发出了所有的炭疽病。” “WHO？”我问。
"Tim," he said.
"Tim," he said.
I sighed, trying not to sound patronizing.
我叹了口气，尽量不让自己显得居高临下。
"Who's Tim?" I said.
"Who's Tim?"我说。
John sighed, trying not to sound patronizing.
John叹了口气，尽量不让自己显得居高临下。
"Tim who told us a year ago that the way to fight the government was to send anthrax through the mail," he said.
"Tim who told us a year ago that the way to fight the government was to send anthrax through the mail," he said.
"Oh, that Tim," I said.
"Oh, that Tim," I said.
John and I had met Tim a year earlier at a gun show in Rochester, Minnesota.
约翰和我一年前在明尼苏达州罗彻斯特的枪支展上认识了蒂姆。
We were there with Randy Weaver.
We were there with Randy Weaver.
The crowds flocked to get the autograph of this icon of the anti-government right, this Ruby Ridge survivor, whose wife and son were killed by federal snipers.
The crowds flocked to get the autograph of this icon of the anti-government right, this Ruby Ridge survivor, whose wife and son were killed by federal snipers.
But Tim didn't.
But Tim didn't.
He stood apart, a lone wolf amongst lone wolves, a pasty-looking man wearing a lumberjack shirt and glasses.
他站在一边，是孤狼中的孤狼，是一个穿着伐木工衬衫、戴着眼镜、面色苍白的男人。
He had a deep grudge against the federal government and, it turned out, the rudimentary scientific knowledge of a lab technician.
他对联邦政府怀有深深的怨恨，事实证明，他对实验室技术员的基本科学知识也怀有深深的怨恨。
He told us that anthrax was the only way forward for the movement.
他告诉我们，炭疽是该运动前进的唯一出路。
In our experience, anthrax wasn't a big militia topic of conversation.
根据我们的经验，炭疽病并不是民兵的主要话题。
In fact, we had never heard anyone mention it before.
事实上，我们之前从未听人提起过这件事。
I had figured Tim was just another gun show kook.
I had figured Tim was just another gun show kook.
But John recognized his uniqueness and wanted him on tape.
But John recognized his uniqueness and wanted him on tape.
So he went off to interview him on video.
于是他就去视频采访他。
We never did anything with the tape.
我们从未对磁带做过任何事情。
It was B-roll to me, just a vox pop, a 20-minute chat.
It was B-roll to me, just a vox pop, a 20-minute chat.
It had sat in my cupboard for a year.
它在我的橱柜里放了一年了。
Now I dug it out, I put it into the VCR, and I pressed play.
Now I dug it out, I put it into the VCR, and I pressed play.
Can you just tell us where we are, and what you're doing here?
你能告诉我们我们在哪里以及你在这里做什么吗？
We're at a gun show here in Rochester, Minnesota.
We're at a gun show here in Rochester, Minnesota.
I sell books that teach you how to make explosives, incendiaries, booby traps.
I sell books that teach you how to make explosives, incendiaries, booby traps.
And I also get into the more dangerous biological and chemical weapons area, the bioweapons area being that you can mail the weapons in microscopic form under a postage stamp or taped to a letter with color pictures and instructions on how to do it.
And I also get into the more dangerous biological and chemical weapons area, the bioweapons area being that you can mail the weapons in microscopic form under a postage stamp or taped to a letter with color pictures and instructions on how to do it.
And that way, you can rearm the entire nation if the government ever tries to take the guns away.
这样，如果政府试图拿走枪支，你就可以重新武装整个国家。
One person, by themselves, anybody with this knowledge can rearm everybody in a day.
One person, by themselves, anybody with this knowledge can rearm everybody in a day.
The people we met at the gun shows all had their own special ways of theoretically battling the government.
The people we met at the gun shows all had their own special ways of theoretically battling the government.
One guy had advocated the use of piano wire to me.
One guy had advocated the use of piano wire to me.
Another favored firebombs.
另一位则青睐燃烧弹。
Tim's big thing was anthrax.
蒂姆最关心的是炭疽病。
At the time, I thought it was just blather.
当时我以为这只是胡言乱语。
Tim didn't look frightening.
蒂姆看起来并不可怕。
He looked friendly, like someone's dad.
他看起来很友善，就像某人的父亲一样。
Picture all that talk about chemical weaponry coming out of the mouth of Roger Ebert, and you get the idea.
想象一下所有关于化学武器的讨论都出自罗杰·艾伯特之口，你就明白了。
But now the words were chilling and so was the matter-of-fact delivery.
But now the words were chilling and so was the matter-of-fact delivery.
"I should call the FBI," I said to John quickly.
“我应该给联邦调查局打电话，”我很快对约翰说。
"Hang on," he said, "I'm the one who thought of Tim.
“等一下，”他说，“是我想到了蒂姆。
I should call the FBI." "I want to call the FBI," I said.
I should call the FBI." “我想给联邦调查局打电话，”我说。
I was the senior partner in this relationship.
我是这段关系中的高级合伙人。
I was the reporter.
I was the reporter.
If anyone was going to call the feds, it was going to be me.
如果有人要打电话给联邦调查局，那就是我。
"Well, I don't want you bloody going to the FBI without me," said John.
“好吧，我不想让你在没有我的情况下去联邦调查局，”约翰说。
There was a hurt silence.
一阵受伤的沉默。
I heard him breathing heavily on the other end of the phone, gearing up for a fight.
I heard him breathing heavily on the other end of the phone, gearing up for a fight.
"OK," I said, "I promise to bring you with me to the FBI."
"OK," I said, "I promise to bring you with me to the FBI."
I'd never ratted out an interviewee to the feds before.
我以前从未向联邦政府透露过受访者。
I had never given up a source.
我从未放弃过一个来源。
This would normally be a very bad thing for a journalist to do.
对于记者来说，这通常是一件非常糟糕的事情。
But you have to remember the panic and fear everyone was feeling that October.
但你必须记住那个十月每个人都感受到的恐慌和恐惧。
Every day that month over 100 anthrax letters were reported.
那个月每天都会收到超过 100 封炭疽信件的报告。
One morning, anthrax was proven at ABC News.
一天早上，美国广播公司新闻证实了炭疽病。
The next day, Senate offices were closed.
第二天，参议院办公室关闭。
The next, the House of Representatives shut down.
接下来，众议院关闭。
Postal workers were dying.
邮政工人快要死了。
Plus, there was nothing Deep Throat about our relationship with Tim.
另外，我们和蒂姆的关系并不存在“深喉”。
He didn't speak with us in confidence or ask that we withhold his name.
He didn't speak with us in confidence or ask that we withhold his name.
He wanted people to know his ideas about anthrax.
他希望人们了解他对炭疽病的看法。
He started gabbing loudly to John about anthrax the minute they started chatting.
He started gabbing loudly to John about anthrax the minute they started chatting.
It wasn't easy to find the FBI in London.
在伦敦找到联邦调查局并不容易。
Directory assistance had no record of them.
目录服务没有它们的记录。
"Are you sure F stands for Federal?" they said.
“你确定F代表联邦吗？”他们说。
I finally tracked them to the US Embassy, and an agent called Michael came onto the phone.
我终于追踪到他们到了美国大使馆，一位名叫迈克尔的特工接了电话。
When I told him what I had, he said casually, "Yes, that would be something we'd be interested in.
当我告诉他我有什么时，他漫不经心地说：“是的，那是我们感兴趣的东西。
Could you bring it in?" "Tomorrow?" I asked.
Could you bring it in?" “明天？”我问。
And Michael agreed.
And Michael agreed.
I realized that things were less casual when, the next morning, at 8:30 AM, Michael telephoned to ask if I was coming in today.
第二天早上 8:30，迈克尔打电话问我今天是否来上班，我意识到事情并不那么随意。
Things aren't casual at 8:30 AM.
上午 8:30 的事情并不随意。
People call at 8:30 AM if they've been up worrying about things.
如果人们一直在担心一些事情，他们会在上午 8:30 打电话。
Two hours later, in Grosvenor Square, West London, John and I were past the exterior security guards, quadrupled in the wake of September 11, past the ocean of fencing, the acres of dead sidewalk space between the fencing and the concrete posts designed to stop suicide bombers, through the x-rays, the bag search, up the elevator, through a series of specially enforced steel doors-- the kind of doors you find on safes-- through more corridors, through the body search, and into London's FBI headquarters.
两小时后，在伦敦西部的格罗夫纳广场，约翰和我穿过了外部保安，在9月11日之后，保安人数增加了四倍，穿过了栅栏的海洋，栅栏和旨在阻止自杀式炸弹袭击者的混凝土柱之间的数英亩死气沉沉的人行道空间，穿过X光，搜包，登上电梯，穿过一系列特殊强化的钢门——就像你在保险箱上找到的那种门——穿过更多的走廊，穿过搜身，进入伦敦联邦调查局总部。
It was incredibly exciting to be there and to be part of it all at this extraordinary moment in history.
It was incredibly exciting to be there and to be part of it all at this extraordinary moment in history.
And let there be no mistake about this, we walked in thinking we were heroes.
毫无疑问，我们走进去时以为自己是英雄。
We were led into an office decorated with novelty tourist trinkets, Big Ben snowstorms, and a collection of funny police helmets.
我们被带进一间办公室，里面装饰着新奇的旅游小饰品、大本钟暴风雪和一系列有趣的警察头盔。
These chachkas struck me as a heartbreaking stab at normal office life amid the craziness deep behind the barricades.
These chachkas struck me as a heartbreaking stab at normal office life amid the craziness deep behind the barricades.
Michael was sitting behind his desk.
迈克尔坐在他的办公桌后面。
He was bookish, and young, and soberly dressed.
他很书生气，很年轻，衣着朴素。
He stood up, and shook our hands, and led us through to his boss's office, and sat us on the sofa.
他站起来，和我们握手，带我们到他老板的办公室，让我们坐在沙发上。
He got out his notepad and said, "So how did you come to meet this Tim?"
他拿出记事本说道：“那么你是怎么认识这个蒂姆的呢？”
"Well," said John, "we're journalists, and we were following Randy Weaver around the gun show circuit.
“好吧，”约翰说，“我们是记者，我们正在跟踪兰迪·韦弗在枪支展上的巡回演出。
Actually, no, no, Jon had hooked up with Randy Weaver a few days earlier, but I'd been researching another project-- would you believe it-- surveillance cameras in shopping malls." John laughed nervously.
事实上，不，不，乔恩几天前就和兰迪·韦弗交往了，但我一直在研究另一个项目——你相信吗——购物中心的监控摄像头。” John laughed nervously.
Michael's eyes began to glaze.
迈克尔的眼神开始变得呆滞。
I think that John, like many people who meet law enforcement officers, was feeling the desperate urge to confess.
我认为约翰和许多见到执法人员的人一样，都迫切地想要坦白。
Luckily, John didn't have anything to confess to.
幸运的是，约翰没有什么可坦白的。
So this compulsion was finding a different outlet, mad small talk.
所以这种冲动正在寻找一个不同的出口，疯狂的闲聊。
I glanced down at Michael's notepad.
我低头看了一眼迈克尔的记事本。
So far, he'd only written two words, Randy Weaver.
到目前为止，他只写了两个字，兰迪·韦弗。
"Shall we watch the tape?" Said Michael.
“我们看录像好吗？” Said Michael.
He hit play.
He hit play.
The only way American people can defend themselves from criminals has been with firearms or-- in the case of the government and the Army, firearms are going to be relatively worthless.
美国人民保护自己免受犯罪分子侵害的唯一方法是使用枪支，或者就政府和军队而言，枪支将相对毫无价值。
So I had to look at some practical methods of which American people could arm themselves and fight back if they ever had to.
因此，我必须研究一些实用的方法，让美国人民可以武装自己并在必要时进行反击。
And that's where the biological story came from.
这就是生物学故事的由来。
John and I sat there, beaming with pride.
约翰和我坐在那里，脸上洋溢着自豪的笑容。
We were so sure we had the guy.
我们非常确定我们找到了那个人。
Michael's facial expression was pointedly unreadable.
迈克尔的面部表情明显难以捉摸。
One person could, for example, mass propagate it and deliver it.
例如，一个人可以大规模传播它并传递它。
And you could render most of the major cities uninhabitable in about a week, which would wreck the economy and pretty much put an end to the government.
你可以在大约一周内使大多数主要城市变得无法居住，这将破坏经济并几乎结束政府。
Tim, can I just ask you, what you're actually advocating here is the spread of really dangerous information.
蒂姆，我可以问你吗，你在这里实际上提倡的是传播真正危险的信息。
On what grounds?
依据什么？
Why do you feel that it's a good idea for everyone to know this terrible stuff?
为什么你觉得让每个人都知道这些可怕的事情是个好主意？
I was relieved that John had adopted a combative style of questioning with Tim.
约翰对蒂姆采取了一种好斗的提问方式，这让我松了口气。
All too often, John and I ask extremists overly soft questions that might lead FBI agents to erroneously believe that we have gone native and are, in some way, sympathetic to extremist causes or unsympathetic to officers of the law.
约翰和我经常向极端分子提出过于温和的问题，这可能会导致联邦调查局特工错误地认为我们已经成为当地人，并且在某种程度上同情极端主义事业或不同情执法人员。
And sure enough, a moment later in the interview, I was mortified to hear the following exchange.
And sure enough, a moment later in the interview, I was mortified to hear the following exchange.
Tim had just told John that the majority of gun show attendees are actually undercover federal agents.
Tim had just told John that the majority of gun show attendees are actually undercover federal agents.
What proportion do you think might be, then, today government agencies here in this event today?
What proportion do you think might be, then, today government agencies here in this event today?
In the summertime, the law enforcement presence runs anywhere from 50% to 90% during summer.
在夏季，执法人员的出勤率从 50% 到 90% 不等。
And during the winter, reliably, in the range of 30% to 60%.
在冬季，可靠地在 30% 到 60% 的范围内。
Michael laughed, and said he wished they had that kind of budget.
迈克尔笑了，说他希望他们有这样的预算。
John and I laughed too.
John and I laughed too.
So you're saying as many as 90% of the people here could be actually federal agents of one form or another?
So you're saying as many as 90% of the people here could be actually federal agents of one form or another?
Yes, that's correct.
是的，这是正确的。
John Sergeant Don't you think that's a pretty outrageous and rude statement to make to all these nice people here?
John Sergeant Don't you think that's a pretty outrageous and rude statement to make to all these nice people here?
"Oh dear," I thought.
"Oh dear," I thought.
"Should I have edited that bit out before calling the FBI?
“我应该在打电话给联邦调查局之前编辑掉那段内容吗？
Or would that have been tampering with evidence?" I shifted awkwardly on the sofa, and I glanced up at Michael.
或者说这会篡改证据吗？” I shifted awkwardly on the sofa, and I glanced up at Michael.
He was sitting behind his desk.
他坐在办公桌后面。
He'd put John and me on the low sofa, so we had to look up at him.
He'd put John and me on the low sofa, so we had to look up at him.
I watched his face flash with disappointment when Tim started telling this cautionary tale from his own life on the video.
当蒂姆开始在视频中讲述他自己生活中的这个警示故事时，我看到他脸上闪现出失望的表情。
When you're sitting in the house with a shotgun, and they send the Army out to your house over a book you wrote, and they're sitting outside, that was ridiculous.
当你拿着猎枪坐在房子里，他们因为你写的书而派军队到你家，而他们却坐在外面，这太荒谬了。
I have been targeted.
I have been targeted.
And that's no secret.
And that's no secret.
It has already been in the papers, in The Washington Post and in some of the other papers.
It has already been in the papers, in The Washington Post and in some of the other papers.
At this point, I started to worry that maybe I'd oversold the videotape when I was on the phone with Michael.
这时，我开始担心，当我和迈克尔通电话时，我可能超卖了录像带。
If the government and media already knew about Tim, maybe this wasn't such a hot tip.
如果政府和媒体已经知道蒂姆的事，也许这不是一个热门消息。
Michael said, "Well, it's interesting to hear these guys talk," which I took to mean, this is wasting my time.
迈克尔说，“嗯，听这些人说话很有趣”，我认为这意味着，这是在浪费我的时间。
I suddenly felt silly and abashed.
我突然觉得自己又傻又羞愧。
It was like taking someone to your favorite movie and seeing it for the first time through their eyes.
It was like taking someone to your favorite movie and seeing it for the first time through their eyes.
And they're bored, and restless, and disappointed.
他们感到无聊、焦躁、失望。
And you start to think, it maybe wasn't such a great movie anyway.
你开始想，这可能不是一部很棒的电影。
When the tape ended, Michael thanked us, and he escorted us back to the lobby.
When the tape ended, Michael thanked us, and he escorted us back to the lobby.
We had to hand in our security passes, and John couldn't find his.
我们必须交出我们的安全通行证，而约翰找不到他的。
He fumbled around in his pockets.
他在口袋里摸索着。
"You put it in your bag," said Michael softly, "while you were watching the video." It must have taken John a split second to put the pass in his bag, just an absentminded move made while we were all watching the video.
“你把它放进包里了，”迈克尔轻声说道，“当你看视频的时候。”约翰肯定花了一瞬间才把通行证放进包里，这只是我们在看视频时心不在焉的举动。
I was impressed.
我印象深刻。
What else had Michael noticed about us that we didn't even know about ourselves?
What else had Michael noticed about us that we didn't even know about ourselves?
That night, as I lay in bed, I thought of Tim.
那天晚上，当我躺在床上时，我想起了蒂姆。
And I wondered who he really was.
我想知道他到底是谁。
A week later, the Wall Street Journal provided the answers to these questions.
一周后，《华尔街日报》给出了这些问题的答案。
The Journal reported that the FBI were looking for a homegrown anthrax terrorist.
The Journal reported that the FBI were looking for a homegrown anthrax terrorist.
And they were making inquiries about a Nebraska man called Tim Tobiason who was known on the gun show circuit for advocating the use of anthrax.
他们正在询问一位名叫蒂姆·托比亚森（Tim Tobiason）的内布拉斯加州男子，他因提倡使用炭疽而在枪支巡回表演中出名。
There was a photograph.
There was a photograph.
This was my Tim.
This was my Tim.
The FBI had apparently been alerted by a member of the public.
联邦调查局显然是收到了一位公众的警报。
"Wow," I thought, "they must have gone after him anyway." A Google search filled in the gaps.
“哇哦，”我想，“无论如何，他们一定是在追他。”谷歌搜索填补了空白。
Tim Tobiason came from Silver Creek, Nebraska.
蒂姆·托比亚森来自内布拉斯加州银溪。
He was once a pillar of the community, the owner of an animal feed mill and an old Dairy Queen, with 24 employees and $3 million a year cash flow, married, two daughters, and a chemical wizard too, mixing up witches' brews at night in his garage.
他曾经是社区的栋梁，是一家动物饲料厂的老板，也是一位老冰雪皇后，拥有 24 名员工，每年现金流达 300 万美元，已婚，有两个女儿，还是一名化学奇才，晚上在车库里混合女巫的啤酒。
"Funny smelling stuff," said his neighbors.
“奇怪的气味，”他的邻居说。
He made some anthrax and a whole new kind of phosphate-based feed additive, which he calculated would net him millions.
他制造了一些炭疽菌和一种全新的磷酸盐饲料添加剂，他计算这将为他带来数百万美元的收入。
He set about patenting it, but the government said it would be dangerous to cattle.
他着手申请专利，但政府表示这会对牛造成危险。
So they rejected it.
所以他们拒绝了。
He began bitching to his friends about a conspiracy, how the government had stolen his patent and given it to some agricultural corporation.
他开始向他的朋友们抱怨一场阴谋，政府如何窃取了他的专利并将其交给了一些农业公司。
"This is what they do," he said, "rob the small guy, the garage chemist, to line the pockets of the giants."
“这就是他们所做的，”他说，“抢劫小人物，车库化学家，来充实巨头的口袋。”
He moved into a Dodge Caravan and plotted his revenge.
他搬进了一辆道奇大篷车并策划了他的复仇。
He wrote Scientific Principles of Improvised Warfare: Advanced Biological Weapons Design and Manufacture.
他撰写了《简易战争的科学原理：先进生物武器设计与制造》。
The cover promised, "If you can make Jell-O, you can wipe out cities.
封面承诺：“如果你能制作果冻，你就能摧毁城市。
Enjoy!" His marriage collapsed.
享受吧！”他的婚姻破裂了。
And he took to selling his book on the gun show circuit.
他开始在枪支巡回展上出售他的书。
In the wake of the Journal article, TV crews stormed Silver Creek.
《华尔街日报》的文章发表后，电视摄制组猛攻银溪。
But Tim had vanished.
但蒂姆已经消失了。
The FBI analyzed his handwriting.
联邦调查局分析了他的笔迹。
They followed the instructions in his anthrax cookbook and found them to be shoddy and incomplete.
他们按照他的炭疽食谱中的说明进行操作，发现这些食谱粗制滥造且不完整。
They concluded Tim Tobiason was innocent.
他们的结论是蒂姆·托比亚森是无辜的。
As a result of the publicity, Tim was banned from gun shows across the United States.
由于这一宣传，蒂姆被禁止参加美国各地的枪支展。
His Silver Creek neighbors said they didn't expect him back, which was all for the best because he was no longer welcome in town.
他的银溪邻居说他们没想到他会回来，这一切都是最好的，因为他在镇上不再受欢迎。
I was feeling guilty.
我感到内疚。
Tim was one of those guys who always lived in fear that the federal government would come after him.
蒂姆是那些总是生活在联邦政府会追捕他的恐惧之中的人之一。
And John and I made his paranoid fantasy come true.
约翰和我让他的偏执幻想成真。
I called the FBI.
我打电话给联邦调查局。
I wanted to know if the hounding of the innocent Tim Tobiason was all because of me and John.
我想知道无辜的蒂姆·托比亚森的追捕是否都是因为我和约翰。
The clerk I spoke to said, Michael couldn't come to the phone, he was too busy.
与我交谈的店员说，迈克尔无法接电话，他太忙了。
I felt like the rat on the cop shows, forced to squeal and then hung out to dry.
我感觉就像警察剧里的老鼠，被迫尖叫，然后挂在外面晾干。
But nobody forced me to squeal.
但没有人强迫我尖叫。
The clerk told me that the FBI had been tipped off about Tim by a number of people, including undercover informants at gun shows.
店员告诉我，联邦调查局已经从很多人那里得到了关于蒂姆的举报，其中包括枪支展上的卧底线人。
So maybe Tim's downfall was that he was too chatty with strangers.
所以蒂姆的失败也许是因为他对陌生人太健谈了。
Maybe, despite his fear of informants, he was just so lonely for a sympathetic ear that he was willing to take his chances.
也许，尽管他害怕线人，但他只是因为太孤独而需要有同情心的倾听，所以他愿意冒险。
In retrospect, I feel embarrassed for the part I played in the whole thing.
回想起来，我为自己在整个事件中所扮演的角色感到尴尬。
I guess no one wants to be a bystander to history anymore.
我想没有人愿意再成为历史的旁观者了。
We all want to have speaking roles.
我们都想扮演会说话的角色。
And now I've got a speaking role.
现在我有一个演讲的角色。
I'm one of the guys who caught the guy who was almost the anthrax guy.
我是抓住那个几乎是炭疽病的人的人之一。
The week I called the feds, a woman in Oregon called the cops to report a white powder all over her car, a white powder which turned out to be pollen.
在我打电话给联邦调查局的那一周，俄勒冈州的一名妇女打电话给警察，报告她的车上到处都是白色粉末，结果证明是花粉。
The publisher of the Yankton Daily Press in Sioux Falls called the FBI because of a dust-like substance in the office.
苏福尔斯市扬克顿日报出版社的出版商因办公室内出现类似灰尘的物质而致电联邦调查局。
You know what it was?
你知道那是什么吗？
Dust.
灰尘。
It seems crazy now, and maybe a little self-aggrandizing, for so many people, including me, to imagine ourselves at the heart of the intrigue.
现在看来，对于包括我在内的很多人来说，想象自己处于阴谋的核心，这似乎很疯狂，也许有点自我夸大。
But it's easy to forget the mood of the time.
但很容易忘记当时的心情。
A feeling of hysteria took over, which made all these actions make sense.
一种歇斯底里的感觉袭来，这让所有这些行为都变得有意义。
And then the hysteria just vanished away again.
然后歇斯底里又消失了。
For a while, it felt like anything could happen.
有一段时间，我感觉什么事情都有可能发生。
It's hard to say which is harder to figure out, how it all became such a frenzy, or how it's all come to feel like so long ago so soon.
很难说哪个更难弄清楚，这一切是如何变得如此疯狂，或者这一切如何感觉像是很久以前这么快了。
We'd all like to believe that, in a crisis, we'll be the ones who act calmly and rationally.
我们都愿意相信，在危机中，我们会是冷静、理性行动的人。
Some of us have a harder time believing that now.
我们中的一些人现在很难相信这一点。
Jon Ronson is the author of the book Them: Adventures with Extremists.
乔恩·罗森是《他们：与极端分子的冒险》一书的作者。
[MUSIC - "DUST IN THE WIND" BY KANSAS]
[音乐 - 堪萨斯的《风中的尘埃》]
Act Two, One Crucible Leads to Another.
第二幕，一个坩埚导致另一个坩埚。
When people start naming names, it's like any other political act.
当人们开始点名时，就像任何其他政治行为一样。
Everybody involved starts to believe their own version of the truth.
每个参与其中的人都开始相信自己版本的真相。
In their memoirs, the playwright Arthur Miller and the director Elia Kazan each tell this story about a conversation that they had back in 1952 when Kazan was called before the House Un-American Activities Committee.
剧作家阿瑟·米勒 (Arthur Miller) 和导演埃利亚·卡赞 (Elia Kazan) 在他们的回忆录中分别讲述了 1952 年卡赞被传唤到众议院非美活动委员会时的一次谈话。
At the time, Miller and Kazan had been friends and coworkers.
当时，米勒和卡赞是朋友和同事。
They'd known each other for years.
他们已经认识多年了。
Kazan was the director of Arthur Miller's play Death of a Salesman.
卡赞是阿瑟·米勒的戏剧《推销员之死》的导演。
In this case, however, their stories do not exactly match up.
然而，在这种情况下，他们的故事并不完全相符。
The committee, of course, was looking for the names of Communists.
当然，该委员会正在寻找共产党人的名字。
Kazan had been a party member briefly in the 1930s.
喀山在 20 世纪 30 年代曾短暂加入过党。
And at first, he refused to name names.
起初，他拒绝透露姓名。
Then he relented.
然后他态度软化了。
He wanted to talk to Miller about his testimony.
他想和米勒谈谈他的证词。
Arthur Miller says that they talked after Kazan had already told the Committee the names of friends and coworkers who had been Communists.
阿瑟·米勒说，他们是在喀山告诉委员会曾经是共产党员的朋友和同事的名字之后进行谈话的。
Kazan said they talked before he had given that testimony.
喀山说，他们在他作证之前进行了交谈。
And there are other differences.
还有其他差异。
Here's Kazan's version first.
首先是喀山的版本。
In his autobiography, he has this passage that he says comes from his diary in the spring of 1952.
在他的自传中，他说这段话来自他1952年春天的日记。
"Conversation with Art Miller in the woods back of my home.
“在我家后面的树林里与阿特·米勒的谈话。
I mentioned that Skouras--" Skouras is a studio head-- "had implied that I couldn't work in pictures anymore if I didn't name the other lefties in the group.
我提到斯库拉斯——“斯库拉斯是工作室负责人——”暗示如果我不说出小组中其他左撇子的名字，我就不能再从事电影工作了。
Then I told Art I'd prepared myself for a period of no movie work or money, that I was prepared to face this if it was worthwhile, but that I didn't feel altogether good about such a decision, that I'd say to myself, what the hell am I giving all this up for?
然后我告诉阿特我已经做好了一段没有电影工作或金钱的准备，如果值得的话我已经准备好面对这一切，但我对这样的决定感觉不太好，我会对自己说，我到底为什么要放弃这一切？
To defend a secrecy that I didn't think right?
为了捍卫我认为不正确的秘密？
And to defend people who had already been named or soon would be named by someone else?
并为那些已经被提名或即将被其他人提名的人辩护？
"I said, I'd hated the Communists for many years and didn't feel right about giving up my career to defend them, that I would give up my film career if it was in the interest of defending something I believed in, but not this.
“我说，我多年来一直憎恨共产党，并且觉得放弃自己的职业生涯来捍卫他们是不对的，如果这是为了捍卫我所信仰的东西，我会放弃我的电影事业，但不是这个。
Art said that it would be a personal disaster for him if I was run out of pictures.
阿特说，如果我的照片用完了，对他来说将是一场个人灾难。
He hoped that it would not happen.
他希望这不会发生。
He could see that it would concern me deeply.
他看得出来这会让我深感担忧。
I only had to consider this, was I sacrificing for something that I believed in?
我只需考虑一下，我是否为我所信仰的东西而牺牲？
"I didn't believe in the secret membership of the Communists.
“我不相信共产党员的秘密身份。
I'd fought it when I was a member.
当我还是会员的时候我就曾与之抗争过。
I then told Art how I'd been pushed to resign from the party.
然后我告诉阿特我是如何被迫退党的。
Art and I had never been frank about the Communist business.
阿特和我对共产主义事务从来没有坦诚过。
This was as much my fault as his and as much his as mine.
这既是我的错，也是他的错，也是他的错，也是我的错。
But mainly, it was that nobody asked if his friend was a Communist in these days.
但主要是，现在没有人问他的朋友是否是共产党员。
Art never offered to tell me.
艺术从来没有主动告诉我。
He knew I was anti-Communist, but I'd always refrained from what I considered to be red-baiting.
他知道我是反共分子，但我总是克制自己认为是红色诱饵的行为。
Art went on about the political situation.
阿特继续谈论政治局势。
He said I was naive.
他说我太天真了。
We talked for 3/4 of an hour.
我们聊了 3/4 小时。
He looked terribly worried.
他看起来非常担心。
Walking back to the house, just before we came in view of the other people, he stopped and put his arm around me in his awkward way, the side of his body against mine, and said, 'Don't worry about what I'll think.
走回房子时，就在我们看到其他人之前，他停下来，以他尴尬的方式用手臂搂住我，他的身体一侧靠着我的身体，然后说：“别担心我会怎么想。”
Whatever you do will be OK with me, because I know your heart is in the right place.'
无论你做什么我都会同意，因为我知道你的心是在正确的地方。
"I was surprised by the phrase, and, as soon as I could, wrote it down.
“我对这句话感到惊讶，并尽快把它写下来。
'Your heart is in the right place.' It was like the truth in a pop song title.
“你的心在正确的地方。”这就像流行歌曲标题中的真相。
There was no doubt that Art meant it and that he was anxious to say this to me before we separated.
毫无疑问，阿特是真心实意的，而且他急于在我们分开之前对我说这句话。
We parted on affectionate terms."
我们深情地分手了。”
Well, Arthur Miller's account of the story appears in his autobiography.
嗯，阿瑟·米勒对这个故事的描述出现在他的自传中。
His account is a bit longer than Kazan's.
他的叙述比卡赞的要长一些。
And we asked actor Richard Henzel to read an edited version for us.
我们请演员理查德·亨泽尔为我们朗读经过编辑的版本。
Here it is.
就是这里。
"The day before I was to leave, Kazan phoned and asked to see me.
“在我离开的前一天，喀山打电话要求见我。
Since he was not a man to idly chat, at least not with me, and since this was his second or third such call in the past few weeks, I began to suspect that something terrible had come to him and that it must be the committee.
因为他不是一个闲聊的人，至少不是和我聊天，而且这是他在过去几周内第二次或第三次这样的电话，我开始怀疑他遇到了可怕的事情，而且一定是委员会。
I drove into a dun and rainy Connecticut morning in early April 1952, cursing the time.
1952 年 4 月初，我开车来到康涅狄格州一个阴暗多雨的早晨，咒骂着时间。
For I all but knew that my friend would tell me he had decided to cooperate with the committee.
因为我几乎知道我的朋友会告诉我他已决定与委员会合作。
Though he had passed through the party for a brief period 15 years before, as he had once mentioned to me, I knew that he had no particular political life anymore, at least not in the five years of our acquaintance.
尽管正如他曾经向我提到的那样，他在15年前曾短暂入党，但我知道他不再有特殊的政治生活了，至少在我们认识的五年里没有。
I found my anger rising, and not against him, whom I loved like a brother, but against the committee.
我发现我的愤怒在上升，不是针对他，我像兄弟一样爱他，而是针对委员会。
"The sun briefly appeared, and we left his house to walk in the woods under dripping branches, amid the odor of decay and regeneration that a long rain drives up from the earth in a cold country forest.
“太阳短暂地出现了，我们离开他的房子，在滴着水的树枝下的树林里散步，在寒冷的乡村森林中，长期的雨水从地面上散发出腐烂和再生的气味。
The story-- simple and, by now, routine-- took but a moment to tell.
这个故事很简单，而且现在已经是例行公事了，只花了一点时间就讲完了。
He had been subpoenaed and had refused to cooperate, but had changed his mind and returned to testify fully in executive session, confirming some dozen names of people he had known in his months in the party so long ago.
他被传唤并拒绝合作，但后来改变了主意，返回执行会议上作证，确认了很久以前他在党内几个月里认识的几十个人的名字。
He was trying, I thought, to appear relieved in his mind.
我想，他是想在心里表现出如释重负的样子。
Actually, he wanted my advice, almost as though he had not yet done what he had done.
事实上，他想要我的建议，就好像他还没有做他已经做过的事情一样。
"There was a certain gloomy logic in what he was saying.
“他的话中有某种令人沮丧的逻辑。
Unless he came clean, he could never hope, at the height of his creative powers, to make another film in America.
除非他坦白，否则他永远不可能指望在他创造力的巅峰时期在美国再拍一部电影。
And he had been told, in so many words, by his old boss and friend Spyros Skouras, president of 20th Century Fox, that the company would not employ him unless he satisfied the committee.
他的老老板兼朋友、20 世纪福克斯公司总裁斯皮罗斯·斯科拉斯 (Spyros Skouras) 多次告诉他，除非他令委员会满意，否则公司不会雇用他。
"He spoke as factually as he could.
“他尽可能实事求是地说。
And it was a quiet calamity opening before me in the woods, because I felt my sympathy going toward him, and, at the same time, I was afraid of him.
在树林里，一场悄无声息的灾难在我面前展开，因为我对他产生了同情，同时，我又害怕他。
I was growing cooler with the thought that, as unbelievable as it seemed, I could still be up for sacrifice if Kazan knew I had attended meetings for party writers years ago and had made a speech at one of them.
我的想法越来越冷静，尽管这看起来令人难以置信，但如果喀山知道我几年前参加过政党作家会议并在其中一个会议上发表过演讲，我仍然可以做出牺牲。
Had I been of his generation, he would have had to sacrifice me as well.
如果我是他那一代人，他也不得不牺牲我。
And finally, that was all I could think of.
最后，这就是我能想到的。
I could not get past it.
我无法克服它。
"I felt a silence rising around me, an impending and invisible wash of dulled vibrations between us, like an endless moaning musical note through which we could not hear or speak anymore.
“我感到周围一片寂静，我们之间即将出现一种无形的沉闷振动，就像一个无尽的呻吟音符，我们再也听不到或说话了。
It was sadness, purely mournful, deadening.
这是悲伤，纯粹的悲伤，令人窒息。
And it had been done to us.
这已经发生在我们身上了。
Who or what was now safer because this man, in his human weakness, had been forced to humiliate himself?
因为这个人在人性的弱点下被迫羞辱自己，现在谁或什么更安全？
"As I got into my car to leave, Molly Kazan came out of the house into the drizzle that had begun again.
“当我钻进车准备离开时，莫莉·卡赞从房子里出来，走进又开始下起的毛毛雨中。
She could tell, I suppose, that it had not gone well.
我想，她看得出来事情进展不顺利。
It was impossible to keep looking into her distraught eyes.
不可能一直看着她心烦意乱的眼睛。
I was half inside the car when Molly came out and asked, unforgettably, if I realized that the United Electrical Workers Union was entirely in the hands of Communists.
当我半在车里时，莫莉出来了，令人难忘地问我是否意识到联合电气工人工会完全掌握在共产党手中。
Then she pointed out toward the road and told me that I no longer understood the country, that everybody who lived on that road approved of the committee and what had been done.
然后她指着那条路告诉我，我不再了解这个国家了，住在那条路上的每个人都赞同委员会和所做的事情。
I didn't know what to say anymore across the crevasse widening between us.
我们之间的鸿沟越来越大，我不知道该说什么了。
"In the awkward pre-departure moment, after I had said that I could not agree with their decision, she asked if I was staying at my house, half an hour away.
“在出发前的尴尬时刻，在我表示我不能同意他们的决定后，她问我是否住在半小时路程外的家里。
And I said that I was on my way to Salem.
我说我正在去塞勒姆的路上。
She instantly understood what my destination meant.
她立刻明白了我的目的地意味着什么。
And her eyes widened in sudden apprehension and, possibly, anger.
她的眼睛突然睁大，充满了忧虑，或许还有愤怒。
'You're not going to equate witches with this.' I told her, I wasn't at all sure I could write a play, but I was going to look into the stuff they had up there.
“你不会把女巫与这个等同起来。”我告诉她，我完全不确定我能写出一部戏剧，但我会研究一下他们那里的东西。
We all waved rather grimly as I pulled away.
当我离开时，我们都严肃地挥手。
"Once on the road, nosing the car north, I thought, she was probably right about the people in the comfortable homes I was passing, and felt myself drifting beyond the pale.
“一上路，车子朝北行驶，我想，她对我所经过的舒适住宅中的人们的看法可能是对的，我感觉自己已经超出了苍白。
The strangeness was sharper because, as usual, I was carrying several contradictions at the same time, my brother love, as painfully alive in me as it had ever been, alongside the undeniable fact that Kazan might have sacrificed me had it been necessary."
这种陌生感更加尖锐，因为像往常一样，我同时带着几个矛盾，我的兄弟之爱，像以前一样痛苦地活在我身上，同时不可否认的事实是，如果有必要的话，喀山可能会牺牲我。”
Miller concludes this passage in his biography this way.
米勒在他的传记中这样总结了这段话。
"In a sense, I went naked to Salem," he writes, "still unable to accept the most common experience of humanity, the shifts of interest that turned loving husbands and wives into stony enemies, loving parents into indifferent supervisors or even exploiters of their own children and so forth.
“从某种意义上说，我赤裸裸地来到塞勒姆，”他写道，“仍然无法接受人类最常见的经历，利益的转变，使恩爱的丈夫和妻子变成铁石心肠的敌人，慈爱的父母变成冷漠的监督者，甚至是自己孩子的剥削者等等。
As I already knew from my reading, that was the real story of ancient Salem Village, what they called then the breaking of charity with one another."
正如我从阅读中了解到的那样，这就是古代塞勒姆村的真实故事，他们称之为当时的慈善事业的破裂。”
Miller, of course, did go on to write The Crucible about the Salem witch trials.
当然，米勒确实继续写了关于塞勒姆女巫审判的《坩埚》。
In that play, John Proctor is the hero who prefers to die rather than give false testimony.
在那部剧中，约翰·普罗克特是一个宁愿死也不愿作伪证的英雄。
Around the same time, Kazan went on to direct the film On The Waterfront.
大约在同一时间，喀山继续执导电影《海滨》。
In that film, Marlon Brando plays a hero who makes the principled decision to testify against the mob.
在那部电影中，马龙·白兰度扮演一位英雄，他做出了有原则的决定，出庭作证反对暴徒。
It is, many have said, the most eloquent defense for squealing on film, though in later years, Kazan said that he simply wanted to demonstrate the moral ambiguity of this kind of situation, that it is not black and white.
许多人说，这是对电影中的尖叫最有力的辩护，尽管在后来的几年里，卡赞说他只是想证明这种情况的道德模糊性，它不是黑白分明的。
One thing you've got to understand, Father.
你必须明白一件事，神父。
On the dock, we've always been D and D.
在码头上，我们一直都是D和D。
D and D, what's that?
D和D，那是什么？
Kayo Dugan Deaf and dumb.
Kayo Dugan 又聋又哑。
No matter how much we hate the torpedoes, we don't rat.
无论我们多么讨厌鱼雷，我们都不会抱怨。
Rat?
鼠？
Oh boys, get smart.
噢，孩子们，要聪明点。
I know you're getting pushed around.
我知道你被人摆布。
But there's one thing we've got in this country, and that's ways of fighting back.
但我们这个国家有一种东西，那就是反击的方式。
Now getting the facts to the public, testifying for what you know is right against what you know is wrong.
现在将事实公之于众，为你所知道的正确的事情和你所知道的错误的事情作证。
Now what's ratting to them is telling the truth for you.
现在他们最关心的是为你说出真相。
Now can't you see that?
现在你看不到了吗？
Can't you see that?
你看不到吗？
Huh?
啊？
Coming up, the breaking of charity with one another in one small town in Tennessee.
即将到来的是，田纳西州的一个小镇上慈善事业的破裂。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Naming Names, stories of people turning in friends, and coworkers, and strangers, I guess too, to the government.
今天的节目《指名道姓》讲述了人们向政府举报朋友、同事和陌生人的故事，我想也是如此。
We have arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了我们计划的第三幕了。
Act Three, Beating the Erasers.
第三幕，击败橡皮擦。
This next story takes place in a small town in Tennessee, a town so small, in fact, that it has just one elementary school, which is where most of this story takes place.
下一个故事发生在田纳西州的一个小镇，事实上，这个小镇很小，只有一所小学，这也是故事大部分发生的地方。
Susan Drury tells the tale.
苏珊·德鲁里讲述了这个故事。
If you spend a little time in Spring Hill, Tennessee, you will start to wonder who Noel Evans was.
如果您在田纳西州斯普林希尔待过一段时间，您就会开始想知道诺尔·埃文斯是谁。
There's Evans Park, named for him and his wife Jerry.
埃文斯公园以他和他的妻子杰瑞的名字命名。
And the main drag through town has a sign next to it, saying that it's sponsored by friends of Noel and Jerry Evans.
镇上的主要街道旁边有一个标志，上面写着这是由诺埃尔·埃文斯和杰里·埃文斯的朋友赞助的。
And people talk about him fondly.
人们亲切地谈论他。
They talk about the competent and kind way he ran the local elementary school for decades, the way he taught new generations of local children and parents.
他们谈论他几十年来管理当地小学的称职和友善的方式，以及他教导当地新一代儿童和家长的方式。
They tell stories of what a dream he was to work for, how he supported teachers in contract negotiations and with difficult parents, how he brought staff and friends tomatoes and peas from his garden, and how he brought some lucky few the peach pies his wife made.
他们讲述了他为之工作的梦想，他如何在合同谈判中支持老师以及与困难的父母相处，他如何从花园里给员工和朋友带来西红柿和豌豆，以及他如何带来一些幸运的妻子做的桃子馅饼。
Many people, dozens of people, told me that they had never heard him raise his voice.
很多人，几十个人告诉我，他们从未听过他提高声音。
And a similar number told me they looked up to him as a father figure.
类似的数字告诉我，他们把他视为父亲的形象。
But there is one story about Noel Evans that people refer to, but rarely want to tell.
但有一个关于诺尔·埃文斯的故事人们会提到，但很少愿意讲述。
People here disagree vehemently about the facts and the meaning of this story.
这里的人们对这个故事的事实和意义存在强烈的分歧。
The people I found who did want to talk about it, on both sides, mostly did not want to talk on tape.
我发现双方确实想谈论这个问题的人，大多数都不想在录音中谈论。
Many people, also on both sides, did not want their names used.
双方的许多人都不想公开自己的名字。
And others did not want to talk at all.
而其他人根本就不想说话。
Because this is a story that severed families and decades-old friendships, and people aren't over it.
因为这是一个切断家庭和数十年友谊的故事，人们还没有忘记它。
It's the story of how, when a few people here decided to name names, it spun out of control immediately, taking over their lives, taking over the life of the man they accused, and ripping apart the town.
这是一个故事，当这里的几个人决定点名时，事情立即失控，接管了他们的生活，接管了他们指控的人的生活，并撕裂了整个城镇。
Here's how Wanda Wright tells the story.
万达·赖特 (Wanda Wright) 讲述了这个故事。
She had grown up in Spring Hill back in the '50s, when you could skate all the way down Main Street and get water at anybody's house because you knew them all.
她在 50 年代的 Spring Hill 长大，那时你可以沿着主街一路滑冰，到任何人家里取水，因为你认识他们所有人。
She had known Mr. Evans since she was a teenager.
她从十几岁起就认识埃文斯先生了。
And he was her math teacher.
他是她的数学老师。
She married the son of the man who had hired Evans.
她嫁给了雇用埃文斯的人的儿子。
And some years later, Mr. Evans hired her to come back to Spring Hill and teach under him.
几年后，埃文斯先生聘请她回到斯普林希尔并在他手下任教。
Wanda knew everybody here.
万达认识这里的每个人。
And she says she felt like she was just in the perfect town then, just totally surrounded by people she'd known forever.
她说，当时她感觉自己就在一个完美的小镇，周围都是她永远认识的人。
She was a true local, a total insider.
她是一个真正的当地人，一个完全的局内人。
This was still a small town in 1994, when Mr. Evans told Wanda Wright that his strawberries were on their last legs, and if she wanted any, she should come pick them after school because he was about to plow them under.
1994 年，这还是一个小镇，当时埃文斯先生告诉旺达·赖特，他的草莓快要过期了，如果她想要的话，放学后可以来摘，因为他正要把它们犁掉。
She dropped by, picked the berries, and went into the house for a minute with Mr. Evans.
她顺道过来，摘了浆果，然后和埃文斯先生一起进屋待了一会儿。
Suddenly, everything changed.
突然间，一切都变了。
Evans asked her for a hug.
埃文斯向她请求拥抱。
They had hugged at school, but this was different.
他们在学校拥抱过，但这次不同。
"He had this real weird, dark look in his eyes," said Wright.
“他的眼睛里有一种非常奇怪、黑暗的表情，”赖特说。
Something was definitely wrong.
肯定出了什么问题。
Wanda pulled her arms up under her chin and leaned over as he hugged her.
当他拥抱她时，旺达将双臂拉到下巴下面，倾身过去。
"I have to go," she said.
“我得走了，”她说。
But he was standing between her and the door.
但他站在她和门之间。
Then he asked her to kiss him.
然后他要求她吻他。
This was not a man she expected this of.
这不是她想象中的男人。
He was her boss, but it went beyond that.
他是她的老板，但还不止于此。
"It was like your preacher, or your daddy, or something like that," she said.
“这就像你的传教士，或者你的爸爸，或者类似的人，”她说。
So the day after the incident at the house, Wanda says, Mr. Evans came to her classroom and gave her a fried peach pie and an apology.
万达说，在家里发生事件的第二天，埃文斯先生来到她的教室，给了她一个炸桃子派，并向她道歉。
She threw the pie down on the desk like it was the worst thing she had ever seen.
她把馅饼扔到桌子上，就像这是她见过的最糟糕的事情一样。
"We have to talk," said Wright.
“我们必须谈谈，”赖特说。
Wright told him she was going to have to leave the school.
赖特告诉他她将不得不离开学校。
Mr. Evans was totally apologetic.
埃文斯先生非常抱歉。
He said he didn't know what came over him.
他说他不知道自己发生了什么。
He swore it had never happened before, never, and it never would again.
他发誓以前从来没有发生过这样的事，从来没有，以后也不会。
She told him if it ever happened again, she would report him.
她告诉他，如果再发生这种事，她会举报他。
But that otherwise, she would not tell anyone.
但除此之外，她不会告诉任何人。
He asked for her forgiveness, and she gave it to him.
他请求她的原谅，她也原谅了他。
"Let's forget it," she said.
“让我们忘记它吧，”她说。
"It's over." And she didn't exactly forget it.
“结束了。”她并没有完全忘记。
It made her edgy.
这让她很急躁。
But she wanted it to be over too.
但她也希望一切都结束。
And they moved on.
他们继续前进。
And on the surface, anyway, life at school pretty much returned to normal.
无论如何，从表面上看，学校生活几乎恢复了正常。
Then three years later, in 1997, on a teacher workday, when the kids were not at school, Mr. Evans, who lived near the school, invited everyone from the school down to his house during lunch time to see the indoor pool he and his wife had put in.
三年后，即 1997 年，在一个教师工作日，当孩子们不在学校时，住在学校附近的埃文斯先生邀请学校的每个人在午餐时间到他家参观他和妻子建造的室内游泳池。
Almost all the teachers went, but Wanda Wright did not.
几乎所有的老师都去了，但万达赖特没有。
She had not returned to the house since the incident and was not going to go back, not even with a group.
事件发生后，她就没有回过家，也不会回去，即使是和一群人一起。
So she was doing some work in her classroom when Julia Priest came in.
当朱莉娅·普里斯特进来时，她正在教室里做一些作业。
Julia was a guidance counselor at the school.
朱莉娅是学校的辅导员。
"Why didn't you go down to Mr. Evans'?" Wanda asked Julia.
“你为什么不去埃文斯先生家？”旺达问朱莉娅。
"Why didn't you go?" Julia shot back.
“你为什么不去？”朱莉娅回击。
They looked at each other, and, without either of them saying a word, they both realized they were keeping the same secret about Mr. Evans.
他们互相看了一眼，两人谁也没说一句话，就意识到自己对埃文斯先生保守着同样的秘密。
Julia told Wanda Wright that, in 1994, Mr. Evans had approached her in her office.
朱莉娅告诉旺达·赖特，1994 年，埃文斯先生在她的办公室找到了她。
She thought he was going to hug her.
她以为他会拥抱她。
But instead, he grabbed her and rubbed himself on her two times.
但他却抓住了她，在她身上蹭了两下。
She had told two friends about it at the time, one of whom urged her to report it to a supervisor, which she did, though nothing ever came of it.
她当时把这件事告诉了两个朋友，其中一个朋友敦促她将此事报告给主管，她照做了，但没有任何结果。
On the day it happened, she was wearing a fuchsia, striped dress with a teal color and matching fuchsia shoes.
事发当天，她穿着一件紫红色、青色条纹连衣裙和配套的紫红色鞋子。
"We used to coordinate like that," she says.
“我们过去常常这样协调，”她说。
She burned the clothes.
她烧了衣服。
She wanted to change schools, and kept her eye out for other jobs.
她想转学，并一直在寻找其他工作。
But she thought she could just manage it, stay a safe distance away, keep her hand on the doorknob whenever they were meeting together.
但她认为自己可以做到，保持安全距离，每次见面时把手放在门把手上。
And she had made it work well enough.
她已经让它运作得足够好。
Nothing had ever happened again.
一切都没有再发生过。
And she had thought she was the only one.
而且她还以为自己是唯一的一个。
Wanda told Julia her story too.
万达也告诉了朱莉娅她的故事。
And again, they believed that they were the only two teachers this had happened to.
他们再次相信自己是唯一发生过这种情况的两名老师。
Then a few months later, a younger teacher called Wanda to confide in her that Mr. Evans was coming to her house, that he had hit on her, that she was afraid of him.
几个月后，一位年轻的老师打电话给万达，向她吐露埃文斯先生要到她家来，他对她产生了好感，她害怕他。
Then Wanda and Julia started to wonder about Susan Nelson, a second grade teacher who seemed to steer clear of Mr. Evans.
然后旺达和朱莉娅开始怀疑苏珊·尼尔森，一位二年级老师，她似乎避开了埃文斯先生。
Wanda asked Susan, "Did Mr. Evans ever make a pass at you?" Susan Nelson was stunned at the question.
旺达问苏珊：“埃文斯先生曾经对你做过调戏吗？”苏珊·纳尔逊被这个问题惊呆了。
She hadn't even told her husband.
她甚至没有告诉她的丈夫。
She said yes.
她说是的。
Now it started to look like there was a much bigger problem at the school.
现在看起来学校里出现了一个更大的问题。
But they weren't sure what to do about it.
但他们不知道该怎么办。
Up until this point, they had all tried to deal with the problem face-to-face, without getting outsiders or the bigger bureaucracy involved.
到目前为止，他们都试图面对面地解决问题，不让外人或更大的官僚机构介入。
Wanda had confronted Mr. Evans in person, one-on-one, the way you do with someone you've known so long, when they step over the line or when they hurt you.
当埃文斯先生越界或伤害你时，万达亲自与埃文斯先生面对面，一对一，就像你与认识已久的人所做的那样。
The women talked about getting Mr. Evans some help or together confronting him in some way.
妇女们讨论了向埃文斯先生提供一些帮助，或者以某种方式一起对抗他。
They all say they didn't want to report him.
他们都说不想举报他。
Reporting him just seemed like it would unleash some process that would just blow everybody up.
举报他似乎会引发一些只会让所有人震惊的过程。
They ended up turning him in by accident.
他们最终无意中把他告了出来。
Wanda confided in a friend who was also the school's vice principal.
万达向一位同时担任学校副校长的朋友吐露了心声。
And because she was a vice principal, a supervisor, she was compelled by school policy to report what she had heard.
由于她是副校长、主管，学校政策迫使她报告她所听到的情况。
And so a few days later, Human Resources staffers were at Spring Hill Elementary, calling selected teachers in and asking them questions about sexual harassment at the school.
几天后，人力资源部的工作人员来到斯普林希尔小学，把选定的老师叫来，询问他们有关学校性骚扰的问题。
When they brought Wanda Wright to the conference room and she saw the questions, she walked to the corner of the conference room and just slid down the wall, bawling.
当他们把旺达赖特带到会议室时，她看到了问题，她走到会议室的角落，从墙上滑下来，嚎啕大哭。
It took her a full week before she agreed to answer the questions.
她花了整整一周的时间才同意回答这些问题。
It was one of the hardest decisions she ever had to make in her life.
这是她一生中必须做出的最艰难的决定之一。
She was terrified of doing something that she knew would destroy this man who she still had some respect for.
她害怕做一些她知道会毁掉这个她仍然尊敬的男人的事情。
And she, like Julia and Susan, they're private.
而她，就像朱莉娅和苏珊一样，他们是私密的。
Even when I wanted to interview them about this story, they were incredibly reluctant.
即使我想就这个故事采访他们，他们也非常不愿意。
And though they ultimately decided to talk to me, they didn't want to have their voices on the radio.
尽管他们最终决定与我交谈，但他们不想在广播中发表自己的声音。
"It's too intimate," they said.
“这太亲密了，”他们说。
In the end, Wanda decided she could not lie and make the other women look like liars.
最后，旺达决定她不能撒谎，让其他女人看起来像骗子。
That's how Wanda, Susan, and Julia tell the story, how they told it to me.
这就是旺达、苏珊和朱莉娅讲述这个故事的方式，也是他们告诉我的方式。
Noel Evans denied all the allegations against him.
诺埃尔·埃文斯否认了所有针对他的指控。
In each case, he denied that he ever kissed, or groped, or grabbed the women, and emphasized how close he was to each of them, how friendly they were to him, and how easy it would be for people to misinterpret his actions.
在每起案件中，他都否认自己曾经亲吻、抚摸或抓住这些女性，并强调他与她们每个人有多亲密，她们对他有多友好，以及人们很容易误解他的行为。
For instance, he wrote that Wanda was in his house, and that before she left with the berries, he gave her a fatherly hug "like I give my daughter on the rare occasions I get to see her."
例如，他写道，旺达在他家里，在她带着浆果离开之前，他给了她一个慈父般的拥抱，“就像我在极少数见到女儿的时候拥抱她一样”。
About a week after the women were questioned and Evans was removed from the school without explanation, the director of schools officially announced that the administration was investigating instances of alleged sexual harassment at the school.
大约一周后，这些妇女受到询问，埃文斯在没有任何解释的情况下被从学校开除，学校校长正式宣布，政府正在调查学校涉嫌性骚扰的事件。
Richard Roach from the school board.
学校董事会的理查德·罗奇。
I heard about it by watching the 6 o'clock news.
我是看六点新闻才知道的。
Then of course, immediately the phone started ringing.
当然，电话立刻就响了。
While the broadcast was going on, the phone started ringing.
直播正在进行时，电话铃声开始响起。
And it got so bad, we couldn't eat supper.
情况变得如此糟糕，我们无法吃晚饭。
We could not, literally, eat supper.
从字面上看，我们不能吃晚饭。
Because the moment people got in, they'd see the headline from that day, or the rumor would come through, and they'd start calling.
因为人们一进来，就会看到当天的头条新闻，或者谣言就会传开，然后他们就会开始打电话。
People here knew this man.
这里的人认识这个人。
They did not, it seems, have reservations about him.
看来他们对他并没有保留。
He'd been at the school for over 30 years.
他在这所学校已经工作了 30 多年。
And most people did not believe that Evans was a sexual harasser.
大多数人并不相信埃文斯是性骚扰者。
And even the women, themselves, said that they, themselves, would not have believed it either if it hadn't actually happened to them.
就连这些女性自己也表示，如果这件事没有真正发生在她们身上，她们自己也不会相信。
Again, Richard Roach from the school board.
又是学校董事会的理查德·罗奇。
I can't remember one single phone call that was anti-Noel Evans.
我不记得有哪一个电话是反对诺埃尔·埃文斯的。
I think anybody that had that point of view was pretty well afraid to speak up, because you were outnumbered 30:1.
我认为任何持有这种观点的人都非常害怕说出自己的观点，因为你们的人数比是 30:1。
They thought, this is a witch hunt.
他们认为，这是一场政治迫害。
He's being railroaded.
他正在被铁路运送。
He's being accused of things he didn't do.
他因他没有做过的事情而受到指责。
One woman called me, and she said, my children are in Spring Hill.
一位女士打电话给我，她说，我的孩子们在斯普林希尔。
I went to Spring Hill.
我去了春山。
My mother went to school under him.
我妈妈在他手下上学。
I have known him since I was four years old.
我从四岁起就认识他了。
And she was so mad.
她非常生气。
She was just almost incoherent, she was so mad, crying, upset.
她几乎语无伦次，她非常生气、哭泣、心烦意乱。
A lot of people were mad, not at Evans, at his accusers.
很多人都生气了，不是针对埃文斯，而是针对他的指控者。
And even though some of the names of the accusers weren't officially released, many teachers and some townspeople started to figure out who was involved.
尽管一些原告的名字没有被正式公布，但许多老师和一些镇民开始弄清楚谁参与其中。
The actual allegations against Evans weren't public just yet.
针对埃文斯的实际指控尚未公开。
It was all sort of vague, what he was accused of.
他被指控的罪名有点模糊。
And in trying to piece the story together, to understand it, a lot of people decided to believe that Mr. Evans did nothing wrong, but that maybe the women misunderstood or misinterpreted his behavior.
在试图将这个故事拼凑起来并理解它时，很多人决定相信埃文斯先生没有做错任何事，但也许这些女人误解或曲解了他的行为。
When the women described what had happened to friends or family, they got some pretty mixed reactions.
当这些女性向朋友或家人描述发生的事情时，她们得到了一些相当复杂的反应。
A friend asked one of the women, "Well, what did he do to you?
一位朋友问其中一位女士：“那么，他对你做了什么？
Did he rape you?" Informed of what Mr. Evans had done, the friend said, "Is that all?" Richard Roach was typical of most people in town.
他强奸你了吗？”当得知埃文斯先生所做的事情后，这位朋友说：“就这些了吗？”理查德·罗奇是镇上大多数人的典型代表。
I never thought it was true.
我从来没想过这是真的。
He may have used some bad judgment.
他可能做出了一些错误的判断。
Now I know a lot of people, especially the teachers involved, are going to get upset with me saying that.
现在我知道很多人，尤其是相关老师，会对我这么说感到不安。
People's perceptions, things can happen, and they may perceive something happening that didn't, in fact, happen.
人们的看法是，事情可能会发生，而且他们可能会感知到实际上没有发生的事情。
But my first thought and my last thought was that he was innocent.
但我的第一个想法和最后一个想法是他是无辜的。
And I will stand by that.
我会坚持这一点。
Some people concluded that the women had more sinister motives.
一些人得出结论，这些妇女有更险恶的动机。
They believed that the women had plotted to destroy Noel Evans, either to get his job or to bring him down for other reasons.
他们相信这些女人密谋摧毁诺埃尔·埃文斯，要么是为了得到他的工作，要么是因为其他原因让他下台。
But here's something you have to know about the teachers.
但关于老师，你必须了解一些事情。
They didn't have anything to tag them as suspicious or unworthy of belief.
他们没有任何东西可以将他们标记为可疑或不值得相信。
They weren't known as gossips or troublemakers.
他们并不被称为八卦者或麻烦制造者。
They all had good reputations as teachers, and were all religious, middle-aged, married ladies with kids.
他们都是有良好声誉的教师，而且都是有宗教信仰、已婚、有孩子的中年妇女。
And all of them had history and ties in this community too.
他们所有人都在这个社区中拥有历史和联系。
And Wanda Wright's ties were the deepest.
与旺达·赖特的关系最为深厚。
One Evan's supporter said to me, "Wanda was the real kicker, because she was the salt of the earth.
埃文的一位支持者对我说：“万达是真正的推动者，因为她是地球上的盐。
But Mr. Evans, well, he was the core of the salt of the earth."
但埃文斯先生，好吧，他是地球之盐的核心。”
So people had to make a choice, a terrible choice, a choice about who to believe.
所以人们必须做出选择，一个可怕的选择，选择相信谁。
If you believed the women, everything you knew was turned upside down.
如果你相信那些女人，你所知道的一切都会被颠倒过来。
So people chose to believe him.
于是人们选择相信他。
One teacher said that her belief in Mr. Evans' character was so strong that nothing could change it.
一位老师说，她对埃文斯先生的性格坚信不疑，任何事情都无法改变。
"If a man walked into the school and Mr. Evans shot him," she said, "then I know the man deserved to be shot."
“如果一个男人走进学校，埃文斯先生开枪打死了他，”她说，“那么我就知道这个男人应该被枪杀。”
The atmosphere at the school became very tense.
学校里的气氛变得非常紧张。
Many teachers started wearing yellow ribbons to show their support for Noel Evans.
许多老师开始佩戴黄丝带以表达对诺埃尔·埃文斯的支持。
Wanda went to the cafeteria one day, and some of the workers walked off the line, refusing to serve her.
有一天，万达去食堂，一些工作人员走下线，拒绝为她服务。
One person told Julia Priest that some of the teachers were praying that Priest and the other accusers would literally go to hell to suffer for their lies.
一个人告诉朱莉娅·普里斯特，一些老师正在祈祷普里斯特和其他指控者真的下地狱，为他们的谎言而受苦。
It was such a frightening climate that every day, as Wanda Wright left the school, she looked under her car before she got in, making sure there was nobody there to attack her.
这种气氛是如此可怕，以至于旺达赖特每天离开学校时，她都会在上车前检查车底，确保那里没有人攻击她。
Then once she got in the car, she'd pause for a minute before she turned the key, half expecting the car to explode.
然后，一旦她上了车，她就会在转动钥匙之前停顿一分钟，生怕车会爆炸。
In a sense, both sides felt they were victims of a witch hunt, Evans, who said his actions were being misinterpreted, and the women, who said they were being persecuted for telling the truth of what happened to them.
从某种意义上说，双方都觉得自己是政治迫害的受害者，埃文斯说他的行为被误解了，而妇女们则说她们因为说出发生在她们身上的真相而受到迫害。
Maybe this is what always happens.
也许这就是经常发生的事情。
Noel Evans retired on May 22, 1997.
诺埃尔·埃文斯于 1997 年 5 月 22 日退休。
He made a settlement with the district that he would get his full retirement benefits and that the investigation file would not be public.
他与学区达成和解，他将获得全额退休福利，并且调查文件不会公开。
He was offered and accepted a big job as the leader of the Tennessee Retired Teachers Association.
他被邀请并接受了一份重要工作，担任田纳西州退休教师协会的领导人。
Lots of people saw him as a good man who had been run off.
很多人都认为他是一个被逃跑的好人。
And they were sad to see him go.
看到他离开，他们感到很难过。
Then, two months later, Noel Evans shot his wife and then himself to death.
两个月后，诺尔·埃文斯开枪打死了他的妻子，然后自杀。
Wanda, Julia, and Susan were horrified by the Evanses' deaths, like everyone else.
和其他人一样，旺达、朱莉娅和苏珊对埃文斯一家的死感到震惊。
But Julia also thought that more people might believe them now.
但朱莉娅也认为现在可能会有更多人相信他们。
They thought it would be clearer for people that something was and had been terribly wrong with Mr. Evans, something nobody could really understand.
他们认为人们会更清楚埃文斯先生现在和过去都犯了严重的错误，没有人能真正理解这一点。
And I met people in town who changed their minds about Mr. Evans after the deaths.
我在镇上遇到了一些人，他们在埃文斯先生死后改变了看法。
But for his core supporters, the people who knew him best, it only made them more certain.
但对于他的核心支持者、最了解他的人来说，这只会让他们更加确定。
Mr. Evans' supporters concluded that the deaths only proved how truly cruel, truly damaging the investigation had been to him.
埃文斯先生的支持者得出的结论是，这些死亡只能证明调查对他来说是多么残酷和具有破坏性。
He had been falsely accused, removed from his school, lost his reputation, and look where it led him.
他被错误地指控，被学校开除，名誉扫地，看看这会把他引向何方。
And many of his supporters didn't believe he murdered his wife.
他的许多支持者不相信他谋杀了他的妻子。
They believe the stress and loss of honor to both Mr. And Mrs. Evans was so great that they had made an arrangement to die, a suicide pact.
他们认为埃文斯夫妇承受的压力和名誉损失是如此之大，以至于他们做出了死亡安排，即自杀协议。
One teacher told me with tears in his voice, "They had a kind of love that modern people don't understand.
一位老师含着泪水告诉我：“他们有一种现代人无法理解的爱。
They wanted to die together."
他们想一起死。”
This theory is a popular one.
这一理论很流行。
The chief of police was a family friend of the Evanses.
警察局长是埃文斯一家的朋友。
And he put it into his official report on the crime.
他将其纳入有关犯罪的正式报告中。
Although he notes that Mrs. Evans was in her pajamas, apparently sleeping on the couch when she was shot in the face by her husband, he still concludes it's a double suicide.
尽管他注意到埃文斯夫人被丈夫开枪射击时，她穿着睡衣，显然是睡在沙发上，但他仍然认为这是双重自杀。
Quote, "I simply do not believe he could have killed Jerry without a pact of some kind between them.
引用：“我根本不相信如果他们之间没有某种协议，他就可以杀死杰瑞。
I cannot see Noel taking Jerry's life without her agreeing to it.
我不能看到诺埃尔在没有杰瑞同意的情况下夺走她的生命。
I think Noel and Jerry had worked it out, and Jerry told Noel, 'I cannot do myself.
我想诺埃尔和杰瑞已经解决了这个问题，杰瑞告诉诺埃尔，‘我自己做不到。
I do not want to know when it is going to happen.'" In big letters at the bottom of the page, the police chief writes, "God bless us all."
我不想知道什么时候会发生。’”警察局长在页面底部用大字写道，“上帝保佑我们所有人。”
Other police investigators thought the chief's notes were wild and irresponsible.
其他警方调查人员认为，局长的笔记疯狂且不负责任。
One veteran officer I spoke with who had been at the scene said, there was no evidence to support this idea of a double suicide, that this was one of the most gruesome and disturbing crime scenes he had seen in his years on the force, and that most of the investigators there concluded Mrs. Evans was murdered, plain and simple.
一位曾在现场与我交谈过的资深警官说，没有证据支持双重自杀的说法，这是他在警队多年中见过的最可怕、最令人不安的犯罪现场之一，而且那里的大多数调查人员都得出结论，埃文斯夫人是被谋杀的，简单明了。
Immediately after the deaths, people proposed to rename the elementary school after Noel Evans.
死亡事件发生后，人们立即提议以诺埃尔·埃文斯的名字重新命名这所小学。
There was something else people wanted.
人们还想要别的东西。
They wanted the names of the women who had accused Evans of harassment.
他们想要知道指控埃文斯骚扰的女性的名字。
At that point, the names hadn't been officially released.
当时，这些名字尚未正式公布。
All most people had were rumors.
大多数人所拥有的只是谣言。
Evans' supporters say, his good name meant everything to him, and the loss of his good name destroyed him.
埃文斯的支持者说，他的好名声对他来说意味着一切，而失去好名声毁了他。
And so it was important to name the accusers, so that, somehow, they would lose their good names too.
因此，说出指控者的名字很重要，这样，他们也会以某种方式失去好名声。
10 days after the Evanses were found dead, the names of his accusers were all printed in the paper.
埃文斯一家被发现死亡十天后，指控他的人的名字全部出现在报纸上。
Once the women were officially named, Evans' supporters circulated a petition to fire the director of schools and the women who made the allegations.
一旦这些女性的名字被正式命名，埃文斯的支持者就散发了一份请愿书，要求解雇学校校长和提出指控的女性。
Mr. Chairman, members of the School Board, Maury County has recently witnessed the slow torture and destruction of Principal Noel Evans.
主席先生，莫里县学校董事会成员最近目睹了校长诺埃尔·埃文斯遭受的缓慢酷刑和毁灭。
Here's Ray Williams, a local businessman and soon to be mayor, presenting the petitions to the School Board shortly after the names were released.
这是当地商人、即将成为市长的雷·威廉姆斯 (Ray Williams) 在名单公布后不久向学校董事会提交的请愿书。
The director of schools has publicly attested to following School Board policies and procedures, as Maury Countyers have watched common sense go out the door.
学校校长已公开证明遵守学校董事会的政策和程序，正如莫里县人目睹常识被抛弃一样。
Who do you think will be the next victim of a school system in constant turmoil and fear?
您认为谁将成为持续动荡和恐惧的学校系统的下一个受害者？
As time passed, more women stepped forward to describe how Mr. Evans came on to them or their friends, so the women don't regret turning him in.
随着时间的推移，越来越多的女性站出来描述埃文斯先生如何对她们或她们的朋友产生好感，这样她们就不会后悔举报他。
They say what they learned from all this is that it doesn't matter what the facts are.
他们说，他们从这一切中学到的是，事实是什么并不重要。
People don't really want to know.
人们并不是真的想知道。
Like Wanda says, she wouldn't have believed them either.
正如万达所说，她也不会相信他们。
She had known Mr. Evans for too long.
她认识埃文斯先生太久了。
It seemed too out of character.
看起来太不符合性格了。
It was their good names against his good name.
这是他们的好名声与他的好名声的对立。
And in the end, he had a better name than they did.
最终，他的名字比他们更好。
And so although the town decided not to name the elementary school after him, it did name the playground for him, and a scholarship fund, and a stretch of road as you come through town.
因此，尽管镇上决定不以他的名字命名小学，但确实以他的名字命名了操场、奖学金基金，以及穿过小镇时的一段道路。
This hasn't driven the women out.
这并没有把女性赶出去。
Susan Nelson still teaches music at the school, and Wanda Wright teaches the third grade.
苏珊·尼尔森 (Susan Nelson) 仍在学校教音乐，万达·赖特 (Wanda Wright) 教三年级。
Julia Priest has a district-wide special ed job.
朱莉娅·普里斯特 (Julia Priest) 从事全学区的特殊教育工作。
They're tough.
他们很强硬。
They've survived.
他们活了下来。
And they have a heavily highlighted copy of Anita Hill's book that they've passed around.
他们还分发了一份安妮塔·希尔 (Anita Hill) 的书，重点强调了这一点。
Many people still don't speak to them.
很多人仍然不和他们说话。
And they still pause before having to introduce themselves at any function, watching for that flash of recognition when people hear their names.
在任何场合，他们在必须自我介绍之前都会停下来，留意人们听到他们的名字时是否会认出他们。
Susan Drury in Tennessee.
田纳西州的苏珊·德鲁里。
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Starlee Kine and myself with Alex Blumberg, Wendy Dorr, and Jonathan Goldstein.
感谢 Ira Glass 嗯，我们的节目今天由 Starlee Kine 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Wendy Dorr 和 Jonathan Goldstein 制作。
Senior producer, Julie Snyder.
高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, whose new autobiography begins with this sentence.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 负责监督，他的新自传就是以这句话开头的。
He stood apart, a lone wolf amongst lone wolves, a pasty-looking man wearing a lumberjack shirt and glasses.
他站在一边，是孤狼中的孤狼，是一个穿着伐木工衬衫、戴着眼镜、面色苍白的男人。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。