201: Them - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #201 | June 2, 2006 201: Them Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 201 集 | 2006 年 6 月 2 日 201：他们 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass It's an us versus them situation.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这是一场我们与他们的较量。
To Felicia Blum, a freshman at Glenbrook South High School, it could not be more clear.
对于格伦布鲁克南高中 (Glenbrook South High School) 的新生费利西亚·布鲁姆 (Felicia Blum) 来说，这一点再清楚不过了。
There are fundamental differences between her school and its rival, Glenbrook North.
她的学校与其竞争对手格伦布鲁克北学校之间存在根本差异。
The differences are basically the fact that the people at GBN are a little more snobby.
差异主要在于 GBN 的人更势利一点。
Like, people have to fit a certain mold that people here don't have to do.
就像，人们必须适应某种模式，而这里的人则不必这样做。
And describe the mold.
并描述模具。
What is the mold that they're fitting into?
他们安装的模具是什么？
Like, skinny, pretty.
比如，瘦，漂亮。
You don't necessarily have to be the nicest person.
你不必是最好的人。
Good clothes, expensive clothes, expensive everything.
好衣服，贵衣服，什么都贵。
Buffalo Jeans, Michael Stars, Kate Spade purses, backpacks, pencil bags.
Buffalo Jeans、Michael Stars、Kate Spade 钱包、背包、铅笔袋。
Go there, the kids at South tell me.
去那里吧，南方的孩子们告诉我的。
You'll see.
你会看到的。
Over half the girls at Glenbrook North will have Kate Spade or Prada handbags.
Glenbrook North 超过一半的女孩都会拥有 Kate Spade 或 Prada 手提包。
So I go.
所以我走了。
It's not far, just a few minutes across the Chicago suburbs.
距离不远，穿过芝加哥郊区只需几分钟。
Now, traditionally, at this point in any story on public radio, or any after-school special for teenagers for that matter, what should happen next is that I should arrive at Glenbrook North and find out that, no, of course, kids in both schools are the same.
现在，传统上，在公共广播电台的任何故事或任何针对青少年的课后特别节目中，接下来发生的事情是，我应该到达格兰布鲁克北并发现，不，当然，两所学校的孩子都是一样的。
Kids are kids.
孩子就是孩子。
They're always the same.
他们总是一样的。
But it turns out that there are a lot of kids at Glenbrook North, GBN, who agree that they are snobbier.
但事实证明，GBN 北格伦布鲁克的很多孩子都承认自己比较势利。
GBN is more, like-- you have to have this, and do your hair, and do your makeup.
GBN 更像是——你必须拥有这个，做头发，化妆。
Everything.
一切。
Yeah.
是的。
I think GBS is more comfortable with themselves as people than we are.
我认为 GBS 作为人比我们更能适应自己。
I know.
我知道。
Exactly.
确切地。
Girl 2 We follow the crowd.
女孩2 我们跟随人群。
Exactly.
确切地。
And if you're not in the in-crowd, then you're nothing.
如果你不在人群中，那么你什么都不是。
And everyone will think of you as just a big loser.
每个人都会认为你只是一个大失败者。
And it's hard.
这很难。
I was told that most of the girls at this school would be carrying either Kate Spade or Prada bags.
有人告诉我，这所学校的大多数女孩都会背 Kate Spade 或 Prada 包。
I have a Prada on right now, actually.
事实上，我现在就穿着一件普拉达。
Yeah.
是的。
It's true.
这是真的。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
Girl 3 Kate Spade is true.
Girl 3 Kate Spade 是真的。
That's true.
这是真的。
Ira Glass But laying it all out like this, here on the radio, exaggerates just how competitive the two schools are.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 但是，在广播中这样阐述这一切，夸大了两所学校的竞争程度。
Most kids didn't seem to care one way or the other about the subject.
大多数孩子似乎并不关心这个话题。
It was the kids who were the most invested in the idea of school spirit who feel the strongest that there's a difference between the schools.
那些对学校精神理念投入最多的孩子最强烈地感受到学校之间的差异。
Like that first girl, Felicia Blum, for instance.
例如，就像第一个女孩费利西亚·布鲁姆（Felicia Blum）一样。
Yeah.
是的。
I have a lot of spirit.
我有很大的精神。
I'm on poms, which is like dancing at the halftime shows, so I guess I'm a little high spirit.
我在打球，就像在中场休息时跳舞一样，所以我想我有点兴奋。
What can I say?
我能说什么？
It's hard for there to be such a thing as "us" if you don't have a "them." And some people by disposition need a good "them." Other people tend to see "thems" of all sorts as more like "us," which is the subject of today's radio show.
如果没有“他们”，就很难有“我们”这样的东西。有些人天生就需要一个好的“他们”。其他人倾向于将各种“他们”视为更像“我们”，这就是今天广播节目的主题。
In this time of war, when we are all feeling a heightened sense of "us" and "them," we wanted to take up the problem of "them" with three stories of people misperceiving the "them-iness" of "them." From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
在这个战争时期，当我们都对“我们”和“他们”的感觉更加强烈时，我们想通过三个人们误解“他们”的“他们性”的故事来探讨“他们”的问题。来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our program today in three vivid acts.
我们今天的节目分为三幕生动的表演。
Act One, My Friend The Extremist.
第一幕，我的极端分子朋友。
What happens if you're not sleeping with the enemy, but instead find that you are watching The Lion King with him.
如果你没有和敌人一起睡觉，而是发现你正在和他一起看《狮子王》，会发生什么？
Act Two, Don't They Know It's Christmas After All?
第二幕，他们难道不知道今天是圣诞节吗？
In that act, David Sedaris tries to contemplate the barrenness of a world that has Santa, but no elves.
在那一幕中，大卫·塞达里斯试图思考一个只有圣诞老人但没有精灵的世界的贫瘠。
Act Three, Newfies.
第三幕，纽菲斯。
The story of an American sailor in World War II whose life was saved by foreigners and then threatened repeatedly by Americans.
讲述了二战中一名美国水手的故事，他被外国人救了命，然后又受到美国人的多次威胁。
Us and them, reversed.
我们和他们，颠倒了。
Stay tuned.
敬请关注。
Act One, My Friend The Extremist.
第一幕，我的极端分子朋友。
Several years ago, before many of us paid much attention to the name Osama bin Laden, reporter Jon Ronson started following around the religious leader who calls himself bin Laden's "man in London." At first, Ronson definitely thought that this leader was on the "them" side of "us" and "them." But once Ronson got to know him, he changed that opinion.
几年前，在我们许多人对奥萨马·本·拉登这个名字给予太多关注之前，记者乔恩·罗森就开始追踪这位自称本·拉登的“伦敦人”的宗教领袖。起初，罗森肯定认为这位领导者是站在“我们”和“他们”的“他们”一边。但一旦罗森认识了他，他就改变了这种看法。
In the year since September 11, he has been forced to change that opinion again, to the point where it is not exactly clear what to think.
自9月11日以来的一年里，他被迫再次改变这一观点，以至于不知道该怎么想。
Here's Jon.
这是乔恩。
I first met Omar Bakri Mohammed shortly after he declared holy war on Britain in 1995.
1995 年奥马尔·巴克里·穆罕默德 (Omar Bakri Mohammed) 对英国宣战后不久，我第一次见到了他。
There were maybe 5,000 of Omar Bakri's followers in Trafalgar Square when he announced that he wouldn't rest until he saw the black flag of Islam flying over Downing Street and the White House.
当奥马尔·巴克里宣布在唐宁街和白宫上空飘扬伊斯兰教黑旗之前，他不会休息时，特拉法加广场上大约有 5,000 名奥马尔·巴克里的追随者。
There was much cheering.
大家欢呼雀跃。
The stage had been rented out to him by the local city council, from which he outlined his post-jihad vision for the UK.
这个舞台是当地市议会租给他的，他在舞台上概述了他对英国后圣战的愿景。
He who practiced homosexuality, adultery, fornication, or bestiality would be stoned to death or thrown from the highest mountain.
实行同性恋、通奸、淫乱或兽交的人将被用石头砸死或从最高的山上扔下来。
Christmas decorations and shop window dummies would be outlawed.
圣诞装饰品和商店橱窗假人将被取缔。
Pubs would be closed down.
酒吧将被关闭。
Pictures of ladies' legs on packets of pantyhose would be banned.
连裤袜包装上印有女士腿的照片将被禁止。
We'd still be able to buy pantyhose, but they'd be advertised simply with the word "Pantyhose."
我们仍然可以购买连裤袜，但它们的广告只会简单地写上“连裤袜”这个词。
I very much wanted to meet Omar Bakri and spend time with him while he attempted to overthrow democracy and transform Britain into an Islamic nation.
我非常想见到奥马尔·巴克里，并在他试图推翻民主并将英国转变为伊斯兰国家时与他共度时光。
It turned out that he lived a couple of miles away from me in Edmonton, North London, in a small semi-detached house at the end of a cul-de-sac.
原来，他住在伦敦北部埃德蒙顿，离我几英里远，住在死胡同尽头的一栋半独立式小房子里。
I got his telephone number from the phone book.
我从电话簿上找到了他的电话号码。
He called back straightaway.
他直接回了电话。
There were so many anti-Muslim lies, he said, generated by the Jewish-controlled media, so much misinformation in the newspapers and the movies.
他说，犹太人控制的媒体制造了如此多的反穆斯林谎言，报纸和电影中也有如此多的错误信息。
Perhaps this would be an opportunity for the record to be set straight.
也许这将是一个纠正记录的机会。
So yes, I was welcome to join him in his struggle against the infidels.
所以，是的，我很高兴加入他反对异教徒的斗争。
And then he added, "I'm actually very nice, you know."
然后他补充道：“你知道，我其实很好。”
"Are you?" I asked.
“你是？”我问。
"Oh, yes," said Omar Bakri.
“哦，是的，”奥马尔·巴克里说。
"I am delightful."
“我很讨人喜欢。”
At 9:00 the next morning, I sat in Omar's living room while Omar played with his baby daughter.
第二天早上 9:00，我坐在奥马尔的客厅里，奥马尔正在和他的小女儿玩耍。
"What's your daughter's name?" I asked him.
“你女儿叫什么名字？”我问他。
"It is a difficult name for you to understand," said Omar.
“这对你来说是一个很难理解的名字，”奥马尔说。
"Does it have an English translation?" I asked.
“有英文翻译吗？”我问。
"Oh, yes," said Omar.
“哦，是的，”奥马尔说。
"It translates into English as The Black Flag of Islam."
“它翻译成英文是《伊斯兰黑旗》。”
"Really?" I said.
“真的吗？”我说。
"Your daughter's name is The Black Flag of Islam?"
“你女儿的名字是伊斯兰黑旗？”
"Yes," said Omar.
“是的，”奥马尔说。
"Really?" I said.
“真的吗？”我说。
There was a small pause.
一阵短暂的停顿。
"You see," said Omar, "why our cultures could never integrate?"
“你知道，”奥马尔说，“为什么我们的文化永远无法融合？”
The Lion King was playing on the video.
视频中正在播放《狮子王》。
We watched the scene where the warthog sung "Hakuna Matata," the song about how wonderful it is to have no worries and problem-free philosophies.
我们观看了疣猪演唱“Hakuna Matata”的场景，这首歌讲述了没有忧虑和无问题的哲学是多么美好。
Omar sang along, bouncing the baby on his knee.
奥马尔跟着唱，把婴儿放在膝盖上弹跳。
"We always watch The Lion King," he said.
“我们总是看《狮子王》，”他说。
"It's the only way I can relax.
“这是我可以放松的唯一方法。
You know, they call me The Lion.
你知道，他们叫我狮子。
That's right.
没错。
They call me The Lion.
他们叫我狮子。
They call me the great warrior, the great fighter."
他们称我为伟大的战士、伟大的斗士。”
Omar showed me his photo album.
奥马尔给我看了他的相册。
His teenage photographs made him look like a matinee idol.
他青少年时期的照片让他看起来像一个日场偶像。
He came from a family of 28 brothers and sisters.
他来自一个有28个兄弟姐妹的家庭。
His father had made a fortune selling sheep and pigs and cows.
他的父亲靠卖羊、猪和牛发了财。
They had chauffeurs and servants and palaces in Syria and Turkey and Beirut.
他们在叙利亚、土耳其和贝鲁特拥有司机、仆人和宫殿。
Omar escaped Saudi Arabia in 1985.
1985 年，奥马尔逃离沙特阿拉伯。
He'd heard he was going to be arrested for preaching the jihad.
他听说他将因宣扬圣战而被捕。
He escaped to Britain.
他逃到了英国。
Now he's a big man with a big beard.
现在他已经是一个留着大胡子的大男人了。
"I was thin because I always worried," he said.
“我很瘦，因为我总是担心，”他说。
"I was always on the run.
“我总是在逃亡。
Now I live in Britain.
现在我住在英国。
I never worry.
我从不担心。
What's going to happen to me here?
我在这里会发生什么事？
Ha-ha.
哈哈。
So I got fat.
于是我就胖了。
A leader must be big in stature.
一个领导者必须有高大的身材。
The bigger the body, the bigger the leader.
身体越大，领导者就越大。
Who wants a little, scrawny leader?"
谁想要一个瘦小的领袖？”
Omar's plan for the morning was to hand out leaflets entitled, "Homosexuality, Lesbianism, Adultery, Fornication, and Bestiality: The Deadly Diseases." He said he couldn't help notice my car in the driveway, so perhaps I would give him a lift.
奥马尔早上的计划是分发传单，标题为“同性恋、女同性恋、通奸、通奸和兽交：致命疾病”。他说他忍不住注意到车道上我的车，所以也许我可以载他一程。
"OK," I said.
“好吧，”我说。
I dropped him off near the tube station.
我把他放在地铁站附近。
I went to park the car.
我去停车。
10 minutes later, I found him standing in the middle of the pavement with a stack of leaflets in his hand.
10分钟后，我发现他站在人行道中央，手里拿着一叠传单。
"How's it going, Omar?" I asked.
“怎么样，奥马尔？”我问。
"Oh, very good," he smiled.
“哦，很好，”他微笑着说。
"The message is getting across that there are some deadly diseases here and there." He turned to the passers-by.
“人们普遍认为，到处都有一些致命的疾病。”他转向路人。
"Homosexuality," he yelled.
“同性恋，”他喊道。
"Beware the deadly disease.
“当心这种致命的疾病。
Beware the hour." Some time passed.
请注意时间。”一段时间过去了。
"Homosexuality," yelled Omar.
“同性恋，”奥马尔喊道。
"Beware.
“当心。
There are homosexuals everywhere."
到处都有同性恋者。”
I expected to see some hostility to Omar's leaflets from the passers-by.
我预计路人会对奥马尔的传单表现出一些敌意。
But the shoppers and tourists and office workers seemed to regard him with a kindly bemusement.
但购物者、游客和办公室工作人员似乎都用一种友善而困惑的目光看着他。
Nonetheless, after 10 minutes, nobody had actually taken a leaflet.
然而，10分钟后，并没有人真正拿走传单。
"Beware the hour.
“注意时间。
There are homosexuals everywhere.
到处都有同性恋者。
Beware the hour," continued Omar cheerfully.
当心时间，”奥马尔高兴地继续说道。
"Be careful from homosexuality.
“要小心同性恋。
It is not good for your tummy."
这对你的肚子不好。”
Omar Bakri was unlike my image of a Muslim extremist.
奥马尔·巴克里不像我心目中的穆斯林极端分子。
Then he told me he had a good idea.
然后他告诉我他有一个好主意。
"Just watch this," he said.
“只要看这个，”他说。
He turned the leaflets upside down.
他把传单翻过来。
"Help the orphans," he yelled.
“帮助孤儿吧，”他喊道。
"Help the orphans."
“帮助孤儿吧。”
"Omar," I exclaimed, scandalized.
“奥马尔，”我惊呼道。
The passers-by started to accept the leaflets.
路人开始接受传单。
"This is good," chuckled Omar.
“这很好，”奥马尔笑着说。
"This is good.
“这很好。
You see?
你看到了吗？
If I wasn't a Muslim, I'd be working for, how you say, Saatchi and Saatchi."
如果我不是穆斯林，我就会为萨奇公司工作，你可以这么说。”
At lunchtime, Omar said he needed to buy some collection boxes for his regular fundraising endeavors for Hamas and Hezbollah.
午餐时，奥马尔说他需要购买一些募捐箱，以便为哈马斯和真主党定期筹款。
Hamas had orchestrated a bus bombing in Jerusalem three weeks earlier, which had killed 11 people.
三周前，哈马斯在耶路撒冷策划了一起公共汽车爆炸事件，造成 11 人死亡。
"There was a cash-and-carry just off the ring road near Tottenham," said Omar, "that sells very good collection boxes.
奥马尔说：“托特纳姆附近的环路附近有一家现购自运商店，出售非常好的收集箱。
Could you give me a lift?"
你能载我一程吗？”
"OK," I said.
“好吧，”我说。
So we drove to the cash-and-carry.
于是我们就开车去现金自运。
Omar sat in the backseat, which made me feel a little like a taxi driver.
奥马尔坐在后座，这让我感觉有点像出租车司机。
"Left," said Omar.
“向左，”奥马尔说。
"Left at the junction.
“在路口左转。
No, left."
不，离开了。”
At some traffic lights, I asked Omar where his wife was when I was at his house.
在一些红绿灯处，我在奥马尔家时问他的妻子在哪里。
"She was upstairs," he said.
“她在楼上，”他说。
"She wouldn't come down until after you left."
“直到你离开之后，她才会下来。”
"What would happen if I had tried to interview her?" I asked.
“如果我尝试采访她会发生什么？”我问。
"I would declare fatwa on you," said Omar.
奥马尔说：“我会对你宣布追杀令。”
"Please don't say that," I said.
“请不要这么说，”我说。
"Ha-ha," said Omar.
“哈哈，”奥马尔说。
"Even as a joke," I said.
“即使是开玩笑，”我说。
We arrived at the cash-and-carry to discover that the only collection boxes they had in stock were large, plastic, novelty Coca-Cola bottles.
我们到达现购自运处，发现他们唯一库存的收集箱是新奇的大塑料可口可乐瓶。
Omar paused for a moment.
奥马尔停顿了一会儿。
He scrutinized the collection boxes.
他仔细检查了收集箱。
He furrowed his brow.
他皱起了眉头。
Then he placed half a dozen of them in his shopping cart.
然后他将六打放入购物车中。
"These are good collection boxes," he said.
“这些都是很好的收集箱，”他说。
"Very big and lightweight."
“很大而且很轻。”
"It seems strange to me," I said, "that you plan to collect for Hamas in novelty Coca-Cola bottles."
“我觉得很奇怪，”我说，“你打算用新奇的可口可乐瓶为哈马斯收集。”
"Ah," said Omar Bakri.
“啊，”奥马尔·巴克里说。
"I am not against the imperialist baggage.
“我并不反对帝国主义的包袱。
Just the corruption of Western civilization."
只是西方文明的腐败。”
We packed our stuff into the trunk of my car, and I drove Omar to the Finsbury Park mosque, where he was to deliver a speech at a conference entitled, "Democracy or Dictatorship." Omar was speaking on behalf of dictatorship.
我们把东西装进汽车后备箱，然后我开车送奥马尔去芬斯伯里公园清真寺，他将在那里在一场题为“民主还是独裁”的会议上发表演讲。奥马尔代表独裁政权发表讲话。
This was my first opportunity to meet some of Omar's followers.
这是我第一次有机会见到奥马尔的一些追随者。
There were maybe 500 of them in the audience.
观众中大约有 500 人。
Things did not start well.
事情开始并不顺利。
"Are you a Jew?" asked a young man.
“你是犹太人吗？”一个年轻人问道。
"Uh, no," I lied.
“呃，不，”我撒了谎。
He apologized.
他道歉了。
"Don't worry about it," I said.
“别担心，”我说。
Omar Bakri was fast-talking on the podium, as if he couldn't contain the words that needed to be said.
奥马尔·巴克里在讲台上语速很快，仿佛无法抑制要说的话。
He filled the room.
他充满了整个房间。
He quoted from a letter he'd just received from an old friend, Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, The Blind Sheikh.
他引用了他刚刚收到的老朋友谢赫·奥马尔·阿卜杜勒·拉赫曼（盲人谢赫）的一封信。
The Blind Sheikh was in jail for life in Missouri for inspiring the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.
这位盲人酋长因煽动 1993 年第一起世贸中心爆炸事件而在密苏里州被判终身监禁。
This law of "inspiration" had not been utilized since the American Civil War.
自美国内战以来，这条“灵感”法则就没有被使用过。
Omar used to eat with The Blind Sheikh back in Saudi Arabia.
奥马尔曾经在沙特阿拉伯和盲人酋长一起吃饭。
After the speech, Omar said he needed to do some errands in town, and could I give him a lift?
演讲结束后，奥马尔说他需要进城办点事，我可以载他一程吗？
I agreed, although I feared I was beginning to cross the line between journalist and chauffeur.
我同意了，尽管我担心自己开始跨越记者和司机之间的界限。
"I'm meeting someone in Soho," I said.
“我正在苏荷区见一个人，”我说。
"So can I drop you off there?"
“那我可以送你去那里吗？”
"No, no, no," he said anxiously.
“不，不，不，”他焦急地说。
"It is forbidden for me to go into Soho.
“我被禁止进入苏豪区。
Please don't take me there." Soho would be razed to the ground, said Omar, once the holy war had been won.
请不要带我去那里。”奥马尔说，一旦圣战获胜，苏荷区将被夷为平地。
"It is important for people to understand these things," he said, "so they will be ready to adapt to the new ways."
“人们了解这些事情很重要，”他说，“这样他们就会准备好适应新的方式。”
"Have you ever been to Soho?" I asked.
“你去过苏荷区吗？”我问。
"Oh, no," said Omar.
“哦，不，”奥马尔说。
"It is forbidden."
“这是禁止的。”
"What do you imagine Soho to be like?" I asked.
“你想象中的苏荷区是什么样子？”我问。
"There are naked women everywhere," he said.
“到处都是裸体女人，”他说。
"Naked women standing on street corners."
“裸体女人站在街角。”
We got talking about the word "fundamentalist." Omar said it had been redefined by the infidels of the west as a pejorative term.
我们谈论“原教旨主义者”这个词。奥马尔说，西方异教徒已将其重新定义为贬义词。
"You use it as an insult," Omar said.
“你用它来侮辱，”奥马尔说。
"Turn left, please."
“请向左转。”
"But surely you are a fundamentalist," I said, "in the sense that you live your life by the rules set down in the Quran."
“但你肯定是一个原教旨主义者，”我说，“因为你按照《古兰经》中规定的规则生活。”
"This is true," said Omar.
“这是真的，”奥马尔说。
"The Quran rules every aspect of my life.
“《古兰经》统治着我生活的方方面面。
It tells me how I eat, how I sleep, how I fight, and even how I will die." Omar paused.
它告诉我如何吃饭、如何睡觉、如何战斗，甚至我将如何死亡。”奥马尔停了下来。
"You know," he said, "the Quran even tells me which direction I must break wind in."
“你知道，”他说，“《古兰经》甚至告诉我必须向哪个方向放气。”
There was a short silence.
一阵短暂的沉默。
"And which direction do you break wind in?" I asked.
“那你从哪个方向放风呢？”我问。
"In the direction of the non-believer," Omar said.
“朝着非信徒的方向，”奥马尔说。
"The direction of the non-believer." Omar laughed heartily for some time, and he slapped me on the back.
“非信徒的方向。”奥马尔哈哈大笑了一会儿，然后拍了拍我的背。
"OK," said Omar as I pulled up near Piccadilly Circus.
“好吧，”当我把车停在皮卡迪利广场附近时，奥马尔说道。
"Thank you very much.
“非常感谢。
Goodbye, Jon."
再见，乔恩。”
As I drove away, I gave my horn a little beep, and I mouthed the words, "I'll call."
当我开车离开时，我按了一声喇叭，然后用口型说：“我会打电话。”
As the months progressed, I found my life becoming increasingly determined by Omar's whims.
几个月过去了，我发现我的生活越来越被奥马尔的突发奇想所左右。
"If you turn up late," he often said, "I will give you 60 lashes.
“如果你迟到，”他经常说，“我就打你 60 下。
Ha-ha." On many occasions, Omar would telephone and call me over urgently.
哈哈。”很多时候，奥马尔都会打电话紧急叫我过来。
I'd cancel nights out with my wife and drive over to discover that he'd forgotten all about me and had taken the train to Plymouth, or Nuneaton, or to his secret jihad training camp near Crawley.
我会取消和妻子一起出去的夜晚，然后开车过去，发现他已经把我忘记了，并乘火车去了普利茅斯、纽尼顿，或者去他在克劳利附近的秘密圣战训练营。
I sometimes felt I was getting a unique insight into what it would be like living under Islamic rule with Omar as ayatollah.
有时我觉得我对生活在奥马尔作为阿亚图拉的伊斯兰统治下会是什么样子有了独特的见解。
Time passed, and then it was January, the first day of Ramadan.
时间流逝，转眼就到了一月，斋月的第一天。
For months now, I'd been asking Omar to take me to his secret jihad training camp in Crawley, an anonymous commuter town near Gatwick Airport, which seemed a rather incongruous location for a jihad training camp.
几个月来，我一直要求奥马尔带我去他位于克劳利的秘密圣战训练营，克劳利是盖特威克机场附近的一个匿名通勤小镇，对于圣战训练营来说，这似乎是一个相当不协调的地点。
Finally, he agreed.
最后他同意了。
We were picked up at Crawley station by some young local followers.
一些年轻的当地追随者在克劳利车站接了我们。
These were people I'd never seen before.
这些都是我以前从未见过的人。
Omar said that in every town and city in the country, and many towns abroad, there were clustered his supporters.
奥马尔说，在国内的每个城镇以及国外的许多城镇，都聚集着他的支持者。
"When you put those people together," said Omar, "you have an army." "Oh, yes," he continued.
奥马尔说：“当你把这些人聚集在一起时，你就拥有了一支军队。” “哦，是的，”他继续说道。
"There's a day when military struggle will take place in the UK.
“有一天，英国将发生军事斗争。
Jihad.
圣战。
It's called 'conquering.' One day, without question, the UK is going to be governed by Islam.
这就是所谓的“征服”。毫无疑问，有一天，英国将受到伊斯兰教的统治。
The Muslims in Britain must not be naive.
英国的穆斯林绝不能天真。
They must be ready to defend themselves militarily.
他们必须做好军事自卫的准备。
The struggle, as I always say, is a struggle between two civilizations.
正如我常说的，这场斗争是两种文明之间的斗争。
The civilization of man against the civilization of God."
人类的文明对抗上帝的文明。”
We were driven to the jihad training camp, a well-stocked gym in a scout hut in a forestry center.
我们被驱车前往圣战训练营，这是一个位于林业中心童子军小屋内的设施齐全的健身房。
Snow lay on the ground.
雪落在地上。
Inside, a young man wearing boxing gloves was beating a punch bag, and Omar immediately instructed him to focus his assault.
里面，一名戴着拳击手套的年轻人正在打沙袋，奥马尔立即指示他集中攻击。
"On the head," he said.
“在头上，”他说。
"That's it.
“就是这样。
The head.
头。
Easy, easy.
容易，容易。
OK, stop now.
好吧，现在停下来。
Rest.
休息吧。
Rest.
休息吧。
You kill him.
你杀了他。
You kill him." The group laughed, and I laughed too.
你杀了他。”一群人笑了，我也笑了。
I was standing in one corner with my back against the wall.
我站在一个角落里，背靠着墙。
I found the situation slightly uncomfortable.
我发现这种情况有点不舒服。
And then, apropos of nothing, Omar made an announcement to the group.
然后，奥马尔无缘无故地向大家宣布了这一消息。
"Look at me," he said.
“看着我，”他说。
"Here I am with an infidel.
“我和一个异教徒在一起。
Jon--" Omar paused for effect "--is a Jew." There was an audible gasp followed by a long silence.
乔恩——”奥马尔停顿了一下，“——是一个犹太人。”一阵喘息声传来，随后是长时间的沉默。
Of all the locations in which Omar could have chosen to disclose this sensational revelation, a packed jihad training camp in the middle of a forest was not the place I'd have hoped for.
在奥马尔可以选择披露这一耸人听闻的消息的所有地点中，森林中央挤满人的圣战训练营并不是我所希望的地方。
I found myself searching for the fastest path to the door.
我发现自己正在寻找通往门口的最快路径。
"Are you really a Jew?" said someone eventually.
“你真的是犹太人吗？”最终有人说道。
"Well," I said lightly.
“好吧，”我轻轻地说。
"Surely it's better to be a Jew than an atheist." There was a silence.
“做犹太人肯定比做无神论者好。”一阵沉默。
"No, it isn't," said a voice from the crowd.
“不，不是的，”人群中传来一个声音。
"When did you know I was Jewish?" I asked Omar.
“你什么时候知道我是犹太人？”我问奥马尔。
"From the beginning," he said.
“从一开始，”他说。
"I could see it in your eyes.
“我可以从你的眼睛里看到这一点。
Why didn't you tell me?"
你为什么不告诉我？”
"Well," I said.
“好吧，”我说。
"You know."
“你知道。”
"Are you ashamed to be a Jew?" said Omar.
“你为自己是犹太人而感到羞耻吗？”奥马尔说。
"You deny it?"
“你否认？”
"No," I said.
“不，”我说。
"I am not offended that you are a Jew," said Omar.
“我并不因为你是犹太人而感到生气，”奥马尔说。
"We are all Semites.
“我们都是闪米特人。
If you were Israeli, if you were Zionist, that is a different matter, but what offends me is that you hide it.
如果你是以色列人，如果你是犹太复国主义者，那是另一回事，但令我生气的是你隐瞒了这一点。
You assimilate.
你同化了。
That you have no pride."
说明你没有骄傲。”
"I am proud," I said, unconvincingly.
“我很自豪，”我语气不那么令人信服地说。
But of course, Omar was right.
但当然，奥马尔是对的。
I should have told him.
我应该告诉他的。
"Assimilation," tutted Omar.
“同化，”奥马尔嘀咕道。
"Integration.
“整合。
These are the worst things of all.
这些是最糟糕的事情。
Be a Jew."
做一个犹太人。”
In the years that followed my time with Omar, he sporadically made the papers, calling for this fatwa or that fatwa, reaffirming the fatwa on Salman Rushdie after Iran had lifted it.
在我和奥马尔在一起之后的几年里，他时不时地发表报纸，呼吁实施这个或那个追杀令，重申伊朗解除对萨尔曼·拉什迪的追杀令。
But he also began to seem increasingly anachronistic, a spent force.
但他也开始显得越来越不合时宜，已是强弩之末。
All that would change during the week of September the 11th, 2001.
一切都在 2001 年 9 月 11 日这一周发生了变化。
The first sign that Omar had decided to initiate his own endgame came in the form of a press release he posted on his website on September the 12th.
奥马尔决定开始自己的残局的第一个迹象是他于 9 月 12 日在自己的网站上发布的新闻稿。
It read, "The final hour will not come until the Muslims conquer the White House.
上面写道：“在穆斯林占领白宫之前，最后时刻不会到来。
As America declares war on 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide, what is your duty?"
当美国向全世界15亿穆斯林宣战时，你的职责是什么？”
Omar then gave a series of newspaper interviews in which he spoke of his delight at the attacks.
奥马尔随后接受了一系列报纸采访，在采访中他谈到了他对袭击事件的高兴。
"Oh, wow," he told the Daily Mail .
“哦，哇，”他告诉《每日邮报》。
"The United States has come under attack.
“美国受到了攻击。
It's exciting." A number of his British followers joined the Taliban.
这很令人兴奋。”他的一些英国追随者加入了塔利班。
At least three were, in Omar's words, "martyred" because of it.
用奥马尔的话说，至少有三人因此“殉难”。
The conservative leader, during an emergency session of Parliament, called for a change in the law, so Omar could be deported.
这位保守派领导人在议会紧急会议上呼吁修改法律，以便将奥马尔驱逐出境。
Scotland Yard arrested Omar, and then they released him.
苏格兰场逮捕了奥马尔，然后释放了他。
He'd committed no crime.
他没有犯罪。
I telephoned Omar on the evening of his arrest.
奥马尔被捕的那天晚上，我给他打了电话。
I expected to find him in defiant mood, but he seemed a little scared.
我原以为他会表现出挑衅的心情，但他似乎有点害怕。
"This is so terrible," he said.
“这太可怕了，”他说。
"The police say they may deport me.
“警察说他们可能会驱逐我。
Why are people linking me with bin Laden?
为什么人们把我和本·拉登联系起来？
I do not know the man.
我不认识这个人。
I've never met him.
我从未见过他。
Why do people say I'm bin Laden's man in Great Britain?"
为什么人们说我是英国本·拉登的手下？”
"Because you've been calling yourself bin Laden's man in Great Britain for years," I said.
“因为多年来你一直称自己是英国本·拉登的手下，”我说。
"Oh, Jon," said Omar.
“哦，乔恩，”奥马尔说。
"I need you more than ever now.
“我现在比以往任何时候都更需要你。
You know I'm harmless, don't you?
你知道我是无害的，不是吗？
You always said I was laughable, didn't you?
你总是说我很可笑，不是吗？
Oh, Jon, why don't people believe you when you tell them I'm just a harmless clown?"
哦，乔恩，当你告诉人们我只是一个无害的小丑时，为什么人们不相信你呢？”
Of course, someone who's a clown isn't always harmless.
当然，小丑并不总是无害的。
I thought about Omar when I watched the World Trade Center fall to the ground.
当我看到世贸中心倒塌时，我想起了奥马尔。
Had he been a monster all this time masquerading as a friendly buffoon to fool guileless liberals like me?
难道他一直都是一个怪物，伪装成友好的小丑来愚弄像我这样的朴实的自由主义者？
I wondered if he'd duped me, or worse, if I'd duped myself.
我想知道他是否欺骗了我，或者更糟糕的是，我是否欺骗了自己。
Someone once told me that I suffer from the great liberal misconception that everyone is basically good underneath.
有人曾经告诉我，我遭受了自由主义的巨大误解，认为每个人本质上都是善良的。
I'd argue instead that most people are a mix of good and bad, and that to see ourselves in them is better than seeing them as inhuman, as something that is impossible to recognize.
相反，我认为大多数人都是好与坏的混合体，在他们身上看到自己比把他们视为非人、无法识别的东西要好。
But I have to admit, there are moments when I think I went too far in befriending Omar.
但我必须承认，有时候我觉得我与奥马尔的友谊太过分了。
The last time I saw him in person was 1996.
我最后一次见到他本人是1996年。
It had been a year since he bought his novelty Coca-Cola Hamas collection boxes from the cash-and-carry.
距离他从现购自运商店购买新奇的可口可乐哈马斯收集盒已经一年了。
They were full now, of loose change and GBP 50 notes.
现在他们已经装满了零钱和 50 英镑的纸币。
There was a check for GBP 5,000 in one.
有一张 5,000 英镑的支票。
Omar and his deputy, Anjem, were taking the collection boxes to the bank.
奥马尔和他的副手安杰姆正在将捐款箱带到银行。
The money would be converted into foreign currency and shipped off to the Middle East, where it would be used in the fight against Israel.
这些钱将被兑换成外币并运往中东，用于对抗以色列。
Omar had some business to finish.
奥马尔还有一些事情要完成。
Anjem packed the bottles in the back of his car.
安杰姆把瓶子装在车后座里。
Then he remembered that he'd left his coat inside.
然后他想起他把外套留在里面了。
He said, "Could you guard the money for a moment?
他说：“你能暂时保管一下这笔钱吗？
I won't be long."
我不会等太久的。”
"OK," I said.
“好吧，”我说。
Anjem disappeared, and I was left standing guard over thousands of pounds, money that would go to Hamas to kill the Jews in Israel.
安杰姆失踪了，我留下了数千英镑的守卫，这些钱将交给哈马斯用来杀害以色列的犹太人。
For a while I stood there.
我在那里站了一会儿。
And what was I doing, guarding money that would be used to kill the Jews?
我在做什么，守护着用来杀害犹太人的钱？
And then I understood that I had to take the money.
然后我明白我必须拿走这笔钱。
I had to reach into the car, grab the Coca-Cola bottles, and make a run for it.
我不得不把手伸进车里，抓起可口可乐瓶子，然后跑出去。
This was my responsibility, my duty.
这是我的责任，我的义务。
I had an obligation to do this.
我有义务这样做。
I had the strength to carry two bottles.
我有力气拎着两个瓶子。
How many lives might that save?
这可以挽救多少人的生命？
Omar and Anjem were inside.
奥马尔和安杰姆在里面。
The car was unlocked.
车子没锁。
But I didn't do it, of course.
但我当然没有这么做。
I just stood there.
我只是站在那里。
And then Anjem and Omar returned, thanked me for my help, and took the money to the bank.
然后安杰姆和奥马尔回来了，感谢我的帮助，并将钱带到了银行。
Jon Ronson.
乔恩·罗森.
In the year since he followed Omar Bakri, Bakri left London and then was banned from returning into England.
在跟随奥马尔·巴克里的那一年，巴克里离开了伦敦，然后被禁止返回英格兰。
He now lives in Lebanon.
他现在住在黎巴嫩。
Coming up, David Sedaris puts the "damn" back in Amsterdam.
接下来，大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 将“该死的”一词带回了阿姆斯特丹。
You can say that on the radio, right?
你可以在广播里这么说，对吧？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Them, stories of how we sometimes expect "them" to be more like "us," or less like us, other times, and wrongly.
今天的节目《他们》讲述了我们有时如何期望“他们”更像“我们”，有时却错误地期望“他们”不像我们。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, Don't They Know It's Christmas After All?
第二幕，他们难道不知道今天是圣诞节吗？
When we travel overseas, most of us want to embrace the "them-iness" of other countries and cultures.
当我们出国旅行时，我们大多数人都想拥抱其他国家和文化的“他们性”。
But that can be hard when we confine ourselves to museums, shopping, restaurants.
但当我们仅限于博物馆、购物中心、餐馆时，这可能会很困难。
David Sedaris has devised a few things to talk about while overseas to get a glimpse of the ways in which people are different from us.
大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 设计了一些在海外谈论的话题，以了解人们与我们的不同之处。
I've never been much for guidebooks, so when traveling abroad, my first question usually relates to barnyard animals.
我从来不太喜欢旅游指南，所以出国旅行时，我的第一个问题通常与农场动物有关。
"What do your roosters say?" is a good icebreaker, as every country has its own unique interpretation.
“你的公鸡说什么？”是一个很好的破冰之道，因为每个国家都有自己独特的解释。
Grecian roosters crow "kiri-a-kee," and in France, they scream "coco-rico," which sounds like an order for one of those horrible pre-mixed cocktails with the pirate on the label.
希腊公鸡会叫“kiri-a-kee”，而在法国，它们会叫“coco-rico”，这听起来像是点了一种可怕的预调鸡尾酒，标签上印有海盗图案。
When told that an American rooster says "cock-a-doodle-doo," my hosts look at me with disbelief and pity.
当我得知一只美国公鸡会说“cock-a-doodle-doo”时，我的主人用难以置信和怜悯的目光看着我。
"When do you open your Christmas presents?" is another good question, because I think it explains a lot about national character.
“你什么时候打开你的圣诞礼物？”这是另一个好问题，因为我认为它可以解释很多关于国民性格的问题。
In France and Germany, gifts are exchanged on Christmas Eve, while in Holland, the children open their presents on December 6, which is nationally celebrated as Saint Nicholas Day.
在法国和德国，人们会在平安夜交换礼物，而在荷兰，孩子们会在 12 月 6 日打开礼物，这一天在全国范围内庆祝为圣尼古拉斯日。
It sounded sort of quaint until I spoke to a man named Oscar, who filled me in on a few of the details as we walked from my hotel to the Amsterdam train station.
这听起来有点奇怪，直到我和一位名叫奥斯卡的人交谈，当我们从酒店步行到阿姆斯特丹火车站时，他向我提供了一些细节。
Unlike the jolly, obese American Santa, Saint Nicholas is painfully thin and dresses not unlike the Pope, topping his robes with a tall hat resembling an embroidered tea cozy.
与快乐、肥胖的美国圣诞老人不同，圣尼古拉斯瘦得令人痛苦，穿着与教皇没有什么不同，他的长袍上戴着一顶类似刺绣茶杯的高帽子。
The outfit, I was told, is a carryover from his former career, when he served as the bishop of Turkey.
有人告诉我，这套服装是他担任土耳其主教时的前职业生涯遗留下来的。
"I'm sorry," I said, "but could you repeat that?" One doesn't want to be too much of a cultural chauvinist, but this seemed completely wrong to me.
“对不起，”我说，“你能再说一遍吗？”人们不想成为太多的文化沙文主义者，但这对我来说似乎完全错误。
For starters, Santa didn't "used to do" anything.
首先，圣诞老人“过去没有做过”任何事情。
He's not retired, and, more importantly, he has nothing to do with Turkey.
他还没有退休，更重要的是，他与土耳其没有任何关系。
It's too dangerous there, and the people wouldn't appreciate him.
那里太危险了，人们不会欣赏他。
When asked how he got from Turkey to the North Pole, Oscar told me with complete conviction that Saint Nicholas currently resides in Spain, which again is simply not true.
当被问及他如何从土耳其到达北极时，奥斯卡坚信圣尼古拉斯目前居住在西班牙，但这又是不正确的。
While our Santa flies in on a sled, the Dutch version arrives by boat and then transfers to a white horse.
我们的圣诞老人乘坐雪橇飞来，而荷兰版本则乘船到达，然后换乘一匹白马。
The event is televised, and great crowds gather at the waterfront to greet him.
该活动进行了电视转播，大批人群聚集在海滨迎接他。
I'm not sure if there's a set date, but he generally docks in late November and spends a few weeks hanging out and asking people what they want.
我不确定是否有固定日期，但他通常在 11 月下旬停靠，并花几周时间闲逛并询问人们想要什么。
"Is it just him alone?" I asked.
“只有他一个人吗？”我问。
"Or does he come with some backup?" Oscar's English was close to perfect, but he seemed thrown by a term normally reserved for police reinforcement.
“或者他带来了一些后援吗？”奥斯卡的英语近乎完美，但他似乎对这个通常用于增援警察的术语感到困惑。
"Helpers," I said.
“帮手，”我说。
"Does he have any elves?" Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, but I couldn't help but feel personally insulted when Oscar denounced the very idea as, quote, "grotesque and unrealistic."
“他有精灵吗？”也许我只是过于敏感，但当奥斯卡谴责这个想法“怪诞且不切实际”时，我忍不住感到个人受到了侮辱。
"Elves," he said.
“精灵，”他说。
"They're just so silly."
“他们真是太傻了。”
The words "silly" and "unrealistic" were redefined when I learned that Saint Nicholas travels with what was consistently described as six to eight black men.
当我得知圣尼古拉斯与一贯描述的六到八个黑人一起旅行时，“愚蠢”和“不切实际”这两个词被重新定义。
I asked several Dutch people to narrow it down, but none of them could give me an exact number.
我问了几个荷兰人缩小范围，但没有人能给我确切的数字。
It was always six to eight, which seemed strange considering they've had hundreds of years to get a decent headcount.
总是六到八人，考虑到他们已经有数百年的时间来获得像样的员工人数，这似乎很奇怪。
The six to eight black men were characterized as personal slaves until the mid-1950s, when the political climate changed, and it was decided that instead of being slaves, they were just good friends.
直到 20 世纪 50 年代中期，政治气候发生变化，六到八名黑人才被定性为私人奴隶，人们决定他们不再是奴隶，而只是好朋友。
I think history has proven that something usually comes between slavery and friendship, a period of time marked not by cookies and quiet hours beside the fire, but by bloodshed and mutual hostility.
我认为历史已经证明，奴隶制和友谊之间通常存在某种东西，一段时期的标志不是饼干和火边的安静时光，而是流血和相互敌意。
They have such violence in Holland, but rather than duking it out amongst one another, Santa and the former slaves decided to take it out on the public.
他们在荷兰发生了如此暴力的事件，但圣诞老人和这些前奴隶并没有相互较量，而是决定将其发泄到公众身上。
In the early years, if a child was naughty, Saint Nicholas and the six to eight black men would beat him with what Oscar described as "the small branch of a tree." Then, if the youngster was really bad, they'd put him in a sack and take him back to Spain.
早年，如果一个孩子调皮，圣尼古拉斯和六到八个黑人就会用奥斯卡所说的“小树枝”打他。然后，如果这个年轻人真的很糟糕，他们就会把他装进麻袋并带回西班牙。
"Wait a minute.
“等一下。
Saint Nicholas would kick you?"
圣尼古拉斯会踢你吗？”
"Well, not any more," Oscar said.
“好吧，不再是了，”奥斯卡说。
"Now he just pretends to kick you."
“现在他只是假装踢你。”
He considered this to be progressive, but in a way I think it's almost more perverse than the original punishment.
他认为这是进步的，但在某种程度上我认为这几乎比最初的惩罚更反常。
"I'm going to hurt you, but not really."
“我会伤害你，但不是真的。”
While eight flying reindeer are a hard pill to swallow, our Christmas story remains relatively dull.
虽然八只会飞的驯鹿是难以下咽的药丸，但我们的圣诞故事仍然相对平淡。
Santa lives with his wife in a remote polar village and spends one night a year traveling around the world.
圣诞老人和他的妻子住在一个偏远的极地村庄，每年花一个晚上环游世界。
If you're bad, he leaves you coal.
如果你表现不好，他就会给你留下煤炭。
If you're good and live in America, he'll give you just about anything you want.
如果你很优秀并且住在美国，他会给你任何你想要的东西。
We tell our children to be good and send them off to bed, where they lie awake anticipating their great bounty.
我们告诉孩子们要乖，然后送他们上床睡觉，他们醒着地躺在那里，期待着他们的丰厚赏赐。
A Dutch parent has a decidedly tastier story to relate, telling his children, "Listen, you might want to pack a few of your things together before going to bed.
一位荷兰家长有一个显然更有趣的故事，他告诉他的孩子们，“听着，你可能想在睡觉前把一些东西打包在一起。
The former bishop of Turkey will be coming tonight along with six to eight black men.
土耳其前主教今晚将与六到八名黑人一起来。
They might put some candy in your shoes.
他们可能会在你的鞋子里放一些糖果。
They might stuff you into a sack and take you to Spain.
他们可能会把你塞进麻袋然后带你去西班牙。
Or they might just pretend to kick you.
或者他们可能只是假装踢你。
We don't know for sure, but we want you to be prepared."
我们不确定，但我们希望你做好准备。”
This is the reward for living in Holland.
这就是生活在荷兰的回报。
As a child, you get to hear this story.
作为一个孩子，你一定会听到这个故事。
And as an adult, you get to turn around and repeat it.
作为一个成年人，你可以转身重复它。
As an added bonus, the government has thrown in legalized drugs and prostitution.
作为额外的好处，政府将毒品和卖淫合法化。
So what's not to love about being Dutch?
那么，为什么不喜欢荷兰人呢？
David Sedaris strives for international understanding in several books.
大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 在多本书中努力争取国际理解。
This one appears in Dress Your Children in Corduroy and Denim.
这一件出现在《给你的孩子穿灯芯绒和牛仔布》一书中。
Which brings us to Act Three, Newfies.
这让我们进入第三幕，纽菲斯。
We end our program with this story in which "us" and "them" are reversed.
我们以这个“我们”和“他们”颠倒过来的故事结束我们的节目。
All the people who should be on the side of the man in this story are actually against him, and all the foreigners, who might be bad to him, actually treat him like one of their own.
所有应该站在这个故事里的人一边的人实际上都反对他，所有可能对他不好的外国人实际上都把他当作自己的人一样对待。
Chris Brookes put the story together.
克里斯·布鲁克斯将这个故事放在一起。
Go right in where he came out of.
往他出来的地方直走。
That's the bridge [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
那是桥[无法辨认]。
I'm driving through the small town of Saint Lawrence, Newfoundland, Canada.
我正开车穿过加拿大纽芬兰省圣劳伦斯小镇。
It's about 300 miles from where I live myself, and the population is 1,697, according to that road sign.
距离我住的地方大约 300 英里，根据路标显示，人口为 1,697 人。
It's on the edge of a boot of rock that sticks right out into the North Atlantic shipping lanes.
它位于直接伸入北大西洋航道的岩石边缘。
When you see this place on the map, it looks like a big foot waiting to trip unwary sailors.
当你在地图上看到这个地方时，它看起来就像一只大脚等着绊倒粗心的水手。
The person giving me directions here is Ena Edwards.
在这里给我指路的人是埃娜·爱德华兹。
She's kind of the unofficial Saint Lawrence historian.
她是非官方的圣劳伦斯历史学家。
And you turn left up here by the stop sign.
然后你在停车标志处左转。
Do you see the high school's down there?
你看到下面那所高中了吗？
Newfoundland is a place that some mainland Canadians like to make jokes about.
纽芬兰是一些加拿大大陆人喜欢开玩笑的地方。
They imagine that we're an island of some kind of naive fisherfolk.
他们想象我们是一个由某种天真的渔民组成的岛屿。
And actually, naive isn't the right word.
事实上，“天真”这个词并不恰当。
Stupid is what they think we are.
他们认为我们是愚蠢的。
And the jokes they tell about us are called Newfie jokes.
他们讲的关于我们的笑话被称为纽菲笑话。
How many of us does it take to screw in a light bulb, that kind of thing.
我们需要多少人才能拧上灯泡之类的东西。
And when I first heard this story, it was in that kind of a context, a funny story about isolated Newfoundlanders just too naive to know what would have been obvious to most other people in North America.
当我第一次听到这个故事时，就是在这样的背景下，这是一个关于孤立的纽芬兰人的有趣故事，他们太天真了，不知道对北美大多数其他人来说显而易见的事情。
But lately, I've found out the rest of the story, and it wasn't a joke at all.
但最近，我发现了故事的其余部分，这根本不是一个笑话。
Where Ena's taking me here is to the new school playground.
惠那带我去的地方是新学校操场。
But the playground is really the end of this story.
但游乐场真的是这个故事的结局。
The beginning of it is 3,000 miles south of here, all the way down in DeKalb County, Georgia.
它的起点位于此处以南 3,000 英里处，一直到佐治亚州迪卡尔布县。
If you'll step in here, I'll show you, that's Saint Lawrence.
如果你走进这里，我会告诉你，那是圣劳伦斯。
That photograph.
那张照片。
Lanier Phillips Yeah, that's Saint Lawrence.
拉尼尔·菲利普斯 是的，那是圣劳伦斯。
And here's my great-grandmother and grandfather, who were born slaves.
这是我的曾祖母和祖父，他们生来就是奴隶。
Well, I'm Lanier Phillips.
嗯，我是拉尼尔·菲利普斯。
I was born March 14, 1923, and I live in DeKalb County.
我出生于 1923 年 3 月 14 日，住在迪卡尔布县。
And DeKalb County didn't furnish schools for black people until 1939.
迪卡尔布县直到 1939 年才为黑人提供学校。
They didn't want the blacks to have any kind of education.
他们不希望黑人接受任何形式的教育。
Then they had the Klan, the Ku Klux Klan.
然后他们就有了三K党，三K党。
And they instilled fear in the black people.
他们向黑人灌输了恐惧。
At least they tried.
至少他们尝试过。
And I know they had fear into me from five or six years old.
我知道他们从五六岁起就对我产生了恐惧。
And I would go up the railroad track and see them come down Main Street, marching every Saturday night.
我会沿着铁轨走下去，看到他们沿着大街走来，每周六晚上都在游行。
They would march.
他们会游行。
And then at other times, they would be on this truck, and they would fire a shot in the air or something like that.
然后在其他时候，他们会在这辆卡车上，他们会向空中开一枪或类似的东西。
And I knew which way they were going.
我知道他们要去哪条路。
When they crossed the railroad track, if they kept going straight, I knew they was going to a place called Smokey Row, predominantly black.
当他们穿过铁轨时，如果他们继续直行，我知道他们要去一个叫斯莫基街的地方，主要是黑人。
Well, it was all black.
嗯，一切都是黑色的。
But if they made a right turn, I knew they was coming down to what we call Bruce's Alley, where I live.
但如果他们右转，我知道他们会来到我住的布鲁斯巷。
And I'd take off like a jackrabbit and tell people, they're coming.
我会像长耳大野兔一样起飞并告诉人们，他们来了。
And everybody would put the lamps out.
每个人都会把灯熄灭。
They didn't have electricity.
他们没有电。
Black people had a chance to build the school themselves.
黑人有机会自己建造学校。
They called it Yellow Ribbon.
他们称之为黄丝带。
Three counties, Rockdale, Gwinnett County, and DeKalb County, got together and built this school, but the Ku Klux Klan burned the school down.
罗克代尔县、格温内特县和迪卡尔布县这三个县联合起来建造了这所学校，但三K党烧毁了这所学校。
Yes, sir.
是的，先生。
They burned it.
他们烧掉了它。
I remember that clear.
我记得很清楚。
I can close my eyes and see the flames going, standing, and watching the school burn, and listening to the grown-ups say, they'll never let us learn or let our children learn to read.
我可以闭上眼睛，看到火焰燃烧，站立，看着学校燃烧，听大人们说，他们永远不会让我们学习，也不会让我们的孩子学习读书。
I saw no future.
我看不到未来。
I had no dreams because the only thing I could say, well, maybe I'll be a sharecropper or something once I grew up.
我没有梦想，因为我唯一能说的是，好吧，也许我长大后会成为一名佃农之类的。
So I said, I think I'll join the navy.
所以我说，我想我会加入海军。
So in '41, I joined the navy.
所以在41年，我加入了海军。
Well, they had blacks in one place and whites in another.
嗯，他们一处有黑人，另一处有白人。
And blacks better not interfere, go down to the whites' showers or bathroom or anything like that.
黑人最好不要干涉，去白人的淋浴间或浴室或类似的地方。
And the blacks on board ship, they could only be mess attendants, serving and what they called taking care of your officer.
而船上的黑人，他们只能是食堂服务员，服务以及他们所说的照顾你的军官。
You were assigned a certain amount of officers.
你被分配了一定数量的军官。
You kept his shoes shined, his clothing ready, and his room cleaned.
你让他的鞋子擦得锃亮，让他的衣服备好，让他的房间打扫干净。
And you'd be out for 30 days or more.
而且你会缺席 30 天或更长时间。
You had to wash those officers' underwear.
你必须洗那些军官的内衣。
Well, in the convoys, we had a lot of merchant ships.
嗯，我们的船队里有很多商船。
And we would escort them up to Iceland.
我们会护送他们前往冰岛。
And then the British would take over the convoy and take them on into England.
然后英国人将接管车队并将他们带入英国。
And the home port was Boston, and as soon as we left Boston, it was storming.
而母港是波士顿，我们一离开波士顿，就下起了暴风雨。
And we'd join up off of Halifax.
我们会在哈利法克斯会合。
I thought we were heading for Iceland.
我以为我们要去冰岛。
I said, well, I won't get off the ship until we get back to the States.
我说，好吧，我们回到美国之前我不会下船。
Because the previous trip had been to Iceland.
因为上次的行程是去冰岛。
And no blacks could go ashore there because they had some agreement with America that they would never let a black man put foot in Iceland.
没有黑人可以上岸，因为他们与美国达成了某种协议，他们永远不会让黑人涉足冰岛。
And they had the same agreement in Morocco.
他们在摩洛哥也达成了同样的协议。
At Port Lyautey, they had a base there.
他们在利奥蒂港有一个基地。
And they said no Jew could ever stand there.
他们说没有犹太人可以站在那里。
And that was the agreement.
这就是协议。
And that's the way it was.
事情就是这样。
That's the way it was.
事情就是这样。
My maiden name was Farrell, which I kept after I married.
我的婚前姓氏是法雷尔，结婚后我保留了这个名字。
So I'm Ena Farrell Edwards.
我是埃娜·法雷尔·爱德华兹。
And at the time of the disaster in 1942, February the 18th, in Saint Lawrence, it was Ash Wednesday.
1942 年灾难发生时，即 2 月 18 日，圣劳伦斯正值圣灰星期三。
And it was a ferocious storm, a real blizzard.
那是一场猛烈的风暴，一场真正的暴风雪。
I heard the XO, the executive officer, tell the captain, this is going to be a rough one.
我听到执行官 XO 告诉船长，这将是一场艰难的战斗。
I'm Gus Etchegary.
我是格斯·埃切加里。
I was about 16 and a half in 1942, just finished high school in Saint Lawrence.
1942 年，我大约 16 岁半，刚刚在圣劳伦斯读完高中。
Oh, it was a huge-- it was a hell of a storm.
哦，这是一场巨大的风暴。
There was no doubt about it at all.
这是毫无疑问的。
I don't know what the estimate of the winds would be, but it had the full strife of the Atlantic.
我不知道风的估计是多少，但它有大西洋的全部冲突。
And I guess many people said, maybe it was even said in our house, what a dreadful night.
我想很多人都说，也许我们家里也有人说，这是一个多么可怕的夜晚。
We pity the poor sailors on the sea tonight.
我们同情今晚海上可怜的水手。
Truxtun had no radar, so what they did was rely on dead reckoning.
特鲁克斯顿没有雷达，所以他们只能依靠航位推算。
Before they knew it, they were right into the cliff.
不知不觉间，他们已经掉进了悬崖。
Bang.
砰。
I thought we had been torpedoed.
我以为我们被鱼雷击中了。
I didn't know what-- I was in my bed when it hit.
我不知道发生了什么——当它袭来时我正在床上。
Down I came.
我下来了。
I had all my clothes on.
我把所有的衣服都穿好了。
I had my life jacket.
我有救生衣。
And I grabbed a pair of shoes-- I didn't know if it was mine or what-- and went topside.
我抓起一双鞋——我不知道它是我的还是什么——然后走到了上面。
Well, it was dark.
嗯，天黑了。
And it was storming.
风雨如磐。
I mean it was picking the Truxtun up and, it looked like, just slam it against the rock.
我的意思是它把Truxtun举了起来，看起来就像是把它猛撞在岩石上。
And you could hear the steel grinding.
你可以听到钢铁摩擦的声音。
Then when day began to break, all you could see was the cliffs and the rocks.
当天亮时，你只能看到悬崖和岩石。
And it just picked the ship up and down it would go.
它只是把船抬起来，然后就走下去。
And began to wash the fellows overboard.
并开始把这些家伙从船上冲走。
I almost got washed over two or three times, but I'd grab that lifeline and hold on.
有两三次我差点被冲下去，但我会抓住那条救生索并坚持下去。
At about 7:30 in the morning, my father called, and in a somewhat frantic voice said, get down here as quickly as you can.
早上7点30分左右，父亲打来电话，语气有些慌张地说，你快点下来吧。
Get ahold of the driver of that pickup truck.
找到那辆皮卡车的司机。
Load up all the ropes and lines that you could find in the area and get down to Chambers Cove.
装载您在该地区可以找到的所有绳索和绳索，前往钱伯斯湾。
The ship had begun to take on so much water, we knew it was going to sink.
船已经开始吸收大量的水，我们知道它会沉没。
They had said that no man could live in the water more than five minutes because of the cold.
他们说，由于寒冷，任何人都不能在水中生存超过五分钟。
As we came up over the hill and looked down, 300 feet or so below, right in the middle of a horseshoe cove, this destroyer, this Truxtun, partly submerged, but the full length of the rail was still above water.
当我们爬上山坡往下看时，大约在下面 300 英尺处，就在马蹄形海湾的正中央，这艘驱逐舰，这艘特鲁克斯顿号，部分被淹没，但整个铁路仍然在水面上。
All these people hanging on, if you like, to dear life on the rail.
如果你愿意的话，所有这些人都在铁路上过着美好的生活。
Some were just swept up on those jagged cliffs and then tumble down.
有些人只是被卷到那些锯齿状的悬崖上，然后滚落下来。
It was a pretty dreadful sight.
这是一个非常可怕的景象。
About this time, she began to break, and all the oil had come out.
大约在这个时候，她开始破裂，所有的油都流出来了。
Oil was coming out, and everybody looked like little rats in the water covered with that crude oil.
石油正在涌出，每个人看起来都像水中的小老鼠，浑身都是原油。
I, along with others, went down hand over hand on a rope.
我和其他人一起，手拉手地沿着绳子往下走。
I told the other blacks that were standing there with me-- I said, at least we're going to die if we're still on board ship.
我告诉和我站在一起的其他黑人——我说，如果我们还在船上，至少我们会死。
Let's go for it.
让我们一起努力吧。
He said, well, this is Iceland.
他说，好吧，这是冰岛。
You don't know what they're going to do.
你不知道他们要做什么。
Said, remember, we just left Iceland, and no blacks are allowed.
说，记住，我们刚离开冰岛，黑人不准进来。
Says, just like being in Georgia or Mississippi.
说，就像在佐治亚州或密西西比州一样。
You mean that you're-- I'm sorry, I'm just trying to absorb this.
你的意思是你——对不起，我只是想理解这一点。
You're in a life and death situation, getting practically washed off the deck of a destroyer which is breaking up.
你正处于生死攸关的境地，几乎被从一艘正在解体的驱逐舰的甲板上冲下来。
And there's four or five black guys having a discussion about whether they should actually swim for it or not because they might not be allowed in the land.
有四五个黑人正在讨论他们是否应该真正游泳，因为他们可能不被允许进入这片土地。
Right.
对。
They wanted to stay on board ship rather than take a chance of landing in Iceland.
他们想留在船上，而不是冒险降落在冰岛。
I said, well, we're going to die if we stay on board this ship.
我说，好吧，如果我们留在这艘船上我们就会死。
I said, at least we can die fighting.
我说，至少我们可以战死。
I said, let's go.
我说，我们走吧。
When I jumped in there, it was like I felt just one quick pain that went over my entire body, and it was all over.
当我跳进去的时候，我感觉全身突然一阵剧痛，然后一切都结束了。
I didn't feel any pain after that.
之后我就没有感觉到任何疼痛了。
I just felt sleepy.
我只是觉得困了。
And when we got ashore, I said, well, I made it here.
当我们上岸时，我说，好吧，我到了这里。
I may as well die.
我还不如去死呢。
So I just laid down there on the beach, and I closed my eyes to die.
于是我就躺在海滩上，闭上眼睛等死。
This is the end.
这就是结局。
And this fellow came, and he said, get him up.
这个人来了，他说，叫他起来。
Don't let him lie there.
别让他躺在那儿。
He said, pick him up.
他说，去接他吧。
He will surely die if he lays there.
如果他躺在那里，他肯定会死。
Walk him around.
带他到处走走。
So he pulled me up.
于是他就把我拉了起来。
And he had on a cap and a coat.
他戴着帽子，穿着外套。
I knew he wasn't Navy.
我知道他不是海军。
And he began to walk me around.
他开始带我四处走动。
And from there, it brought life to me.
从那时起，它给我带来了生命。
I said, man, here's a white person who wants me to live.
我说，伙计，这是一个白人想要我活下去。
If I had been in Georgia, they would have said, kick him out of the way.
如果我在乔治亚州，他们会说，把他踢开。
Let's help these white people.
让我们帮助这些白人吧。
Then I think I passed out.
然后我想我昏过去了。
They took them to where there was a temporary first aid station erected.
他们把他们带到临时搭建的急救站。
And of course, the call came to the women of the place to go out to clean them.
当然，当地的妇女也被要求出去清洁。
And that's where the story came in of Lanier now.
这就是现在拉尼尔的故事的来源。
That little funny story.
那个有趣的小故事。
See, he was there among all the other survivors.
看，他就在所有其他幸存者之中。
The ladies were cleaning them up and scrubbing them up because they were covered with tar, with this oil stuff, this crude oil.
女士们正在清理和擦洗它们，因为它们上面覆盖着焦油、这种油类物质、这种原油。
They were so filthy, every part of them had to be washed.
它们太脏了，每个部分都必须清洗。
So when he opened his eyes--
于是当他睁开眼睛的时候——
I could see these white ladies all around.
我可以看到周围都是这些白人女士。
There I was, stark naked, on this table.
我赤身裸体地坐在这张桌子上。
And I heard one of the ladies say, this is the curliest hair I've ever seen.
我听到一位女士说，这是我见过的最卷曲的头发。
I said, oh boy, this is the end of me.
我说，天哪，这就是我的末日了。
I said, hell, they're going to say, get him out of here, he's black.
我说，见鬼，他们会说，让他离开这里，他是黑人。
And then she said--
然后她说——
"This poor fellow.
“这个可怜的家伙。
The tar went right into his pores.
焦油直接进入了他的毛孔。
I'm scrubbing and scrubbing, and I can't get him clean."
我擦啊擦啊，怎么也洗不干净。”
And I spoke up.
我开口了。
She said, I can't get it out.
她说，我拿不出来。
I said, well, you can't get it off.
我说，好吧，你摘不下来。
It's the color of the skin.
这是皮肤的颜色。
And she said, oh, I'll get it off all right.
她说，哦，我会把它取下来的。
And so she continued to scrub.
于是她继续擦洗。
Violet [?
紫罗兰[?
Pike, ?] she's dead now.
派克，？]她现在死了。
She had never seen a black man before.
她以前从未见过黑人。
So she didn't differentiate.
所以她没有区分。
She's out there, thought he was a white man with the black into his pores so bad as she couldn't get it out.
她在外面，以为他是一个白人，毛孔里的黑色物质严重到她无法将其取出。
And I was thinking, oh, boy.
我当时想，哦，天哪。
They're going to lynch me.
他们要对我处以私刑。
Here I am.
我在这里。
If I had been in Georgia, they would have ran those white women out of town and maybe lynched me for letting them bathe me.
如果我在佐治亚州，他们会把那些白人妇女赶出城，也许还会因为我让她们给我洗澡而对我处以私刑。
And of course, when the men were taking them out to the different homes, she said, bring him to my home.
当然，当男人们带他们去不同的家时，她说，把他带到我家。
So that evening, then, she prepared supper.
于是，那天晚上，她准备了晚饭。
And he was amazed that he ate with the family.
他很惊讶自己能和家人一起吃饭。
And he drank out of china cups, the same as the family.
他和家里人一样，用瓷杯喝酒。
And they put me in the bed.
他们把我放在床上。
And this lady, she would come in and say, are you warm?
这位女士，她会进来问，你暖和吗？
Are you all right?
你还好吗？
And she did this the remainder of the night.
那天晚上剩下的时间她都这样做了。
I didn't go to sleep anymore because I was still afraid.
我没有再去睡觉，因为我仍然害怕。
I didn't know where I was or what was going to happen to me.
我不知道我在哪里，也不知道我会发生什么。
But then I kept asking myself, did I die, and I went to heaven?
但后来我不断地问自己，我死了吗，然后我去了天堂吗？
What's going on?
发生什么事了？
Now look at these pictures, huh?
现在看看这些照片，是吗？
After all these years.
经过这么多年。
Now I'll show you Lanier at that time.
现在我就带大家看看当时的拉尼尔。
There he is.
他就在那里。
18 years old, see?
18岁，看到了吗？
The next morning, they gave me a coat and a cap.
第二天早上，他们给了我一件外套和一顶帽子。
And I put these things on, and I wanted to get outside to see what was going on.
我穿上这些东西，想出去看看发生了什么。
And I went outside, and Ena was out there taking pictures.
我走到外面，埃娜正在外面拍照。
And I seen him, and I said, come on over and get in the picture.
我看到了他，我说，过来拍一下吧。
Well, I stood aside.
嗯，我站在一边。
You know, a black is-- the only way he'll take a picture with a white is because how many logs he could lift for the the sawmill, or how many pounds of cotton he could pick in a day, or something like that.
你知道，黑人与白人合影的唯一方式是因为他可以为锯木厂举起多少原木，或者他一天可以采摘多少磅棉花，或者类似的东西。
He was the white man's prize negro or something like that.
他是白人最珍视的黑人或类似的人。
And she said, get in, get in, get your picture taken.
她说，进来，进来，拍张照片。
That's him, right there.
就是他，就在那里。
These are the ones I took with the Brownie.
这些是我和布朗尼一起带的。
Four white faces and one black one.
四张白脸，一张黑脸。
This story I'd heard as a joke about the Newfoundlanders who'd tried to scrub the black off a black man.
我听过这个故事，是关于纽芬兰人试图把黑人身上的黑色擦掉的笑话。
This is like a picture of the joke.
这就像一个笑话的图片。
But it turns out, the real story doesn't stop here.
但事实证明，真正的故事并不止于此。
Well, it hasn't been a day passed since that happened, it hasn't been a day passed I didn't think about Saint Lawrence.
好吧，自从那件事发生以来，我没有一天不想起圣劳伦斯。
They changed my entire philosophy of life.
他们改变了我的整个人生哲学。
So they gave me leave.
所以他们给了我休假。
I think I got 15 days leave.
我想我有15天的假期。
And I went to see my aunt who lived in Chattanooga.
我去看望住在查塔努加的姨妈。
And we would catch the bus from there to go into town.
我们会从那里乘坐公共汽车进城。
And the blacks had to sit behind the whites.
黑人必须坐在白人后面。
And what the whites would do-- if it was only three whites on the bus, maybe two of them would go to the seat just before the last seat, which means that on the way in, if the bus filled up, the whites would have plenty of seats, and the blacks would only have that one seat.
而白人会做什么——如果公共汽车上只有三个白人，也许其中两个人会去最后一个座位之前的座位，这意味着在上车的路上，如果公共汽车满了，白人会有很多座位，而黑人只会有一个座位。
So when we got on, my aunt and I, the back seat was filled, and here was this white guy.
所以当我和姨妈上车时，后座已经坐满了人，这是一个白人。
So we sat in the seat in front of him.
于是我们就坐在了他前面的座位上。
He reached and grabbed me by the neck and pushed me up.
他伸手抓住我的脖子，把我推了起来。
And he said, nigger, don't you sit in front of me.
他说，黑鬼，你别坐在我面前。
And I was going to fight him.
我要和他战斗。
I felt like fighting him then because of the treatment that I'd got in Saint Lawrence and what the people have treated me like a human being.
当时我想和他战斗，因为我在圣劳伦斯所受到的待遇以及人们对待我像人一样的态度。
I said, well, hell, I'm a human.
我说，好吧，见鬼，我是一个人。
I'm no longer a slave and the lowest and the least, the last.
我不再是奴隶，不再是最低等、最不重要、最后的。
I said, I'm going to do it.
我说，我去做吧。
I said, If I can give my life and fight this war the same as everybody else and can't even ride a bus when I pay the same fare as everybody else, but I can't be seated as everyone else--
我说，如果我能像其他人一样献出自己的生命，打这场战争，甚至不能和其他人一样坐公共汽车，但我不能和其他人一样坐在座位上——
My aunt said, just be quiet, just be quiet, we'll be in in a few minutes.
我阿姨说，安静点，安静点，我们几分钟后就到了。
So I thought about that.
所以我想到了这一点。
They sent me to Jacksonville, Florida.
他们把我送到佛罗里达州杰克逊维尔。
And when I got to Jacksonville, I was hungry.
当我到达杰克逊维尔时，我很饿。
And when I got off and walked into the station, I saw all these prisoners, Italian and German prisoners.
当我下车走进车站时，我看到了所有这些囚犯，意大利和德国囚犯。
And they had Army MPs, Americans, guiding them.
他们有陆军议员、美国人来指导他们。
They had them inside the dining room, eating.
他们让他们在餐厅里吃饭。
And I knew that the blacks could go to a window or something, somewhere, but I knew they wouldn't be allowed to go into that dining room.
我知道黑人可以去某个地方的窗户或其他地方，但我知道他们不会被允许进入那个餐厅。
And I thought about the people of Saint Lawrence, how they had fed me, gave me clothing, and put me in their bed.
我想到了圣劳伦斯的人们，他们如何喂养我，给我衣服，并将我放在他们的床上。
And I looked at the prisoners.
我看着囚犯。
And here I am in American uniform.
我穿着美国制服。
So I went in to ask, where does a colored-- is what they called us then-- where can call the colored negroes get something to eat?
所以我进去问，有色人种——他们当时是这样称呼我们的——在哪里可以找到有色人种的东西吃？
I'm trying to make it to the naval air station.
我正在努力前往海军航空站。
So I went to go in, and this one cop grabbed me by the collar and slung me on the ground.
于是我走进去，一名警察抓住我的衣领，把我扔在地上。
And when he slung me on the ground, he put his foot right on my neck and actually pulled his gun out and pulled the hammer back.
当他把我扔到地上时，他把脚放在我的脖子上，实际上拔出了枪，并将锤子拉了回来。
I could hear it click.
我能听到它的咔嗒声。
I thought he was going to shoot me.
我以为他要开枪打我。
He say, you black son of a bitch, I'll blow your black brains out.
他说，你这个黑狗杂种，我要把你的黑脑袋打碎。
He said, you know better than to come in here where these white people are.
他说，你知道最好不要来到这些白人所在的地方。
So the white people were the German prisoners and the Italian prisoners, and here I am in an American uniform.
所以白人就是德国囚犯和意大利囚犯，而我在这里穿着美国制服。
And I thought about the people of Saint Lawrence.
我想到了圣劳伦斯的人民。
16 years after the shipwreck.
沉船事故16年后。
Lanier Phillips I was tired of shining shoes.
拉尼尔·菲利普斯（Lanier Phillips） 我厌倦了擦鞋。
I was tired of washing dishes and pots and pans.
我厌倦了洗盘子、锅碗瓢盆。
I was tired of it.
我厌倦了。
I had 17 years in the navy as a mess attendant.
我在海军服役了 17 年，担任餐饮服务员。
And I was looking, when I get out, I wanted to learn a trade.
当我出去时，我想学习一门手艺。
And I wrote the first black congressman, and I wrote the Bureau of Naval Personnel a letter, and told them I thought I was qualified to be something other than a mess attendant.
我写信给第一位黑人国会议员，也给海军人事局写了一封信，告诉他们我认为我有资格担任除餐厅服务员之外的其他职位。
And when I got that letter back saying, report to Fleet Sonar School, I really gave the credit to Saint Lawrence.
当我收到那封信说要向舰队声纳学校报告时，我真的把功劳归功于圣劳伦斯。
Because had it not been for Saint Lawrence, I wouldn't have been writing the powers that be because I had been brainwashed that I was so inferior to the white man, to don't look forward to ever being anything.
因为如果没有圣劳伦斯，我就不会写出这些力量，因为我被洗脑了，我比白人低等，不希望成为任何人。
And I got orders, report to Fleet Sonar School.
我接到命令，向舰队声纳学校报到。
They called me down.
他们叫我下去。
Counselor wants to see you.
辅导员想见你。
And I went in to see a counselor.
我进去见了一位辅导员。
Phillips, he said, we've got good news.
菲利普斯，他说，我们有好消息。
He said, no. We've contacted Washington, and they'll go along with it and make you chief steward mess attendant.
他说，不。我们已经联系了华盛顿，他们会同意的，让你担任首席乘务员。
He said, because we don't think you can make it through sonar school.
他说，因为我们认为你无法通过声纳学校。
I said, well, sir, you can take the first class if you want, I said, but just don't throw me out.
我说，好吧，先生，如果你愿意的话，你可以参加第一堂课，但别把我赶出去。
He said, well, you know you're going to flunk out, don't you?
他说，好吧，你知道你会被退学，不是吗？
I said, no, I don't know that.
我说，不，我不知道。
I said, give me a chance.
我说，给我一个机会吧。
If I flunk out, so be it.
如果我不及格，那就这样吧。
He said, all right, you start the next class.
他说，好吧，你开始下一堂课。
So I started the next class, and I went through sonar school.
所以我开始了下一堂课，并完成了声纳学校的课程。
By now, you've probably forgotten how we started this story, driving around Saint Lawrence, 59 years after the shipwreck, with the town historian, Ena Edwards, looking for the brand-new school playground.
现在，您可能已经忘记了我们是如何开始这个故事的：海难发生 59 年后，我们与小镇历史学家埃娜·爱德华兹 (Ena Edwards) 一起驾车绕圣劳伦斯寻找全新的学校操场。
See, there's the playground.
看，这里就是操场。
Established by the students of Marion Elementary School in 1999.
由马里恩小学的学生于1999年创立。
You can go out and walk into it.
你可以出去走进去。
You can go in.
你可以进去了。
I'm not a rich man.
我不是一个有钱人。
But every contribution I can make, I make it to the people of Saint Lawrence.
但我能做出的每一份贡献都是为了圣劳伦斯人民。
I realize since the mine closed, the economy is way down.
我意识到自从矿井关闭以来，经济大幅下滑。
He has shown gratitude.
他表达了感激之情。
No doubt about it.
毫无疑问。
And they were trying to get a new playground for the elementary school.
他们正在努力为小学找一个新的操场。
And I said, well, I have a nice check to present from Lanier.
我说，好吧，我有拉尼尔寄来的一张不错的支票。
I've said, do whatever the society wants to do with this.
我说过，社会想做什么就做什么吧。
I said, But I would like for you to do something for your museum, and let the world know what you did for the entire crew of the Truxtun.
我说，但我希望你为你的博物馆做点什么，让全世界知道你为特鲁克斯顿号的全体船员所做的事情。
And here's this black man, let them know what you did for him too, and how you changed him.
这是这个黑人，让他们知道你也为他做了什么，以及你如何改变了他。
There, look.
在那里，看。
"Lanier Phillips, USS Truxtun survivor.
“拉尼尔·菲利普斯，特鲁克斯顿号航空母舰幸存者。
And then on the other side is the USS Truxtun, lost February 18, 1942." And the Marion Elementary School logo is in the center.
另一边是 1942 年 2 月 18 日失踪的特鲁克斯顿号航空母舰。”马里恩小学的标志位于中心。
And the name of the playground is Lanier Phillips playground.
游乐场的名字是拉尼尔·菲利普斯游乐场。
I seek no recognition.
我不寻求任何认可。
I just want the people of Saint Lawrence to know how much I appreciate them.
我只是想让圣劳伦斯的人们知道我是多么感激他们。
And I want them to know what they did for me.
我想让他们知道他们为我做了什么。
But do you think they're a different kind of people from the people in Georgia?
但你认为他们和佐治亚州的人是不同的人吗？
Well, they're the same kind of people.
嗯，他们是同一类人。
But the reason they are different is because their parents and grandparents or what didn't teach them the hatred and the bigotry that the southern United States taught their kids.
但他们之所以与众不同，是因为他们的父母和祖父母没有像美国南部那样教给他们的孩子那样的仇恨和偏执。
We are creatures of what we've been taught, and the people of Saint Lawrence taught me that I was a human being.
我们是我们被教导的生物，圣劳伦斯的人民告诉我，我是一个人。
They put into my mind-- it's etched in there.
他们把它放进我的脑海里——它铭刻在那里。
It's solid, like liquid steel, hot steel became cold and solid.
它是固态的，就像液态钢一样，热钢变成冷固态。
It's into me and will never leave me.
它已融入我，永远不会离开我。
That story by Chris Brookes, who makes radio stories in Newfoundland, Canada.
这个故事由克里斯·布鲁克斯（Chris Brookes）撰写，他在加拿大纽芬兰制作广播故事。
Lanier Phillips is now 83 and living at the Armed Forces Retirement Home in Washington DC.
拉尼尔·菲利普斯 (Lanier Phillips) 现年 83 岁，住在华盛顿特区的武装部队退休之家。
You know you can download today's program in our archives at audible.com/thisamericanlife.
您知道，您可以在我们的档案库中下载今天的节目：audible.com/thisamericanlife。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our show by Mr. Torey Malatia, who has this message for the radio audience:
[资金来源] Torey Malatia 先生对我们的节目进行了 WBEZ 管理监督，他向广播听众传达了以下信息：
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。