200: Hearts and Minds - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #200 | November 30, 2001 200: Hearts and Minds Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 200 集 | 2001 年 11 月 30 日 200：心灵与思想 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
序言 Ira Glass 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，由国际公共广播电台发行的《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
So you've heard, right?
所以你听说过，对吧？
The US State Department has hired a former ad executive to run an information campaign to make the United States more beloved in the Muslim world.
美国国务院聘请了一位前广告主管来开展宣传活动，以使美国在穆斯林世界中更受欢迎。
We know that in many of the countries where our messages are sent that often they're distorted, they're one-dimensional, or they're simply not heard.
我们知道，在我们发送的信息的许多国家，这些信息常常被扭曲、是一维的，或者根本就没有被听到。
This is Charlotte Beers, formerly of Madison Avenue, whose taken what is certainly a colossal pay cut to become undersecretary of state in charge of this effort.
这位是前麦迪逊大街的夏洛特·比尔斯 (Charlotte Beers)，她在降薪后成为负责这项工作的副国务卿。
And while many of the things that she's announced so far are eminently sensible-- better communication with foreign journalists, exchange programs so more people from the Muslim world get to meet and know real Americans-- she talks weird.
虽然她迄今为止宣布的许多事情都非常明智——与外国记者进行更好的沟通，开展交流项目，让更多来自穆斯林世界的人能够见到并了解真正的美国人——但她说话却很奇怪。
I know I'm one to talk here.
我知道我适合在这里发言。
But she speaks in a particular kind of language.
但她说的是一种特殊的语言。
Here she is in a press conference talking about Muslims in America.
照片中，她正在一场新闻发布会上谈论美国的穆斯林。
Their conversion rate is astonishing.
他们的转化率是惊人的。
30% conversion in each year is about the fastest growing religion in this country and a good number for any sales team.
每年 30% 的转化率大约是这个国家增长最快的宗教，对于任何销售团队来说都是一个不错的数字。
Here's a sales curve any corporation would envy.
这是任何公司都会羡慕的销售曲线。
These are the percent of mosques founded in the US over the last few years.
这些是过去几年在美国建立的清真寺的百分比。
It's obviously a growing, vital religion with some very wonderful people who have a pretty remarkable life here in the United States.
显然，这是一个不断发展、充满活力的宗教，有一些非常优秀的人，他们在美国过着非常非凡的生活。
To consider all the difficulties the United States faces in this effort, to win the hearts and minds around the Muslim world, consider for a moment what it takes to do a regular advertising campaign, to do something as simple as sell laundry detergent in Muslim Afghanistan and Pakistan.
考虑到美国在这一努力中面临的所有困难，为了赢得穆斯林世界的民心，考虑一下如何开展定期的广告活动，做一些像在穆斯林阿富汗和巴基斯坦销售洗衣粉这样简单的事情。
Up until very recently, Zdenka Milanovich was based in Karachi for the global ad agency Saatchi and Saatchi, charged with selling Tide or the version of Tide that they use over there.
直到最近，Zdenka Milanovich 还在卡拉奇为全球广告公司 Saatchi and Saatchi 工作，负责销售汰渍或他们在那里使用的汰渍版本。
It's called Ariel.
它叫爱丽儿。
And it is for handwashing since only 1% of the population has access to a washing machine.
这是为了洗手，因为只有 1% 的人口能用上洗衣机。
She said working in that part of the world was unlike any advertising she had ever done before.
她说，在世界的那个地方工作不同于她以前做过的任何广告。
For me, everything that I knew as the principals in advertising is something that I knew that I had to completely forget about.
对我来说，我作为广告原理所知道的一切都是我必须完全忘记的。
Zdenka did this interview with our show and with the fine National Public Radio program On the Media.
兹登卡接受了我们的节目和国家公共广播电台优秀节目《媒体》的采访。
Because we're facing with a completely different type of consumers.
因为我们面对的是完全不同类型的消费者。
The average salary in Pakistan, the real one is $5 per month.
巴基斯坦的平均工资，真实的是每月5美元。
The literacy rate, the real one, for women is 4%, 5%.
女性的实际识字率是 4%、5%。
For men, it's higher, of course, 37%.
对于男性来说，这个比例当然更高，为 37%。
Then there was the fact that although it was women who washed clothes, it was men who made the purchasing decisions.
还有一个事实是，虽然洗衣服的是女性，但购买决定却是男性。
Women didn't read magazines.
女人不看杂志。
They didn't see much TV.
他们没怎么看电视。
Zdenka had a product for them that she couldn't advertise to them.
兹登卡为他们准备了一款产品，但她无法向他们做广告。
So the ad agency did a focus group and was sort of taken aback when six women, completely covered, in black, came in to talk about detergent and about the ads that the agency was thinking of running.
因此，广告公司做了一个焦点小组，当六名全身黑衣的女性进来谈论洗涤剂以及该公司正在考虑投放的广告时，他们感到有些惊讶。
We exposed them to certain commercials.
我们让他们看到某些广告。
We just wanted to get some kind of insights.
我们只是想获得一些见解。
And after showing them the concepts, asking them to tell us what do they really think and which one would they chose, what they said is that they wouldn't use any.
在向他们展示概念后，要求他们告诉我们他们的真实想法以及他们会选择哪一个，他们说他们不会使用任何一个。
And they have to be asked, why.
必须问他们为什么。
They said, because we just can't use it, we don't believe in this product because it's too expensive.
他们说，因为我们无法使用它，所以我们不相信这个产品，因为它太贵了。
They know, and they have perception that your brand is expensive because it has a foreign image.
他们知道，并且他们认为你的品牌很昂贵，因为它具有外国形象。
This is why it's not good.
这就是为什么它不好。
And I remember me, I just got home.
我记得我，我刚到家。
And I was back in the office, and I didn't know what to do.
我回到办公室，我不知道该怎么办。
Then I called certain people working in strategic planning in Dubai to understand what to do because they are not listening, and what is they way to approach them.
然后我给迪拜的一些从事战略规划工作的人打电话，了解他们没有倾听，所以该怎么做，以及他们采取什么方法来解决这些问题。
So here's how they turned Ariel from a newcomer into the number one best-selling detergent in these Muslim countries.
以下是他们如何将 Ariel 从一个新人变成这些穆斯林国家最畅销的清洁剂。
First, they decided that if the brand's foreignness was a problem, if foreignness made Ariel untrustworthy, then they needed to use, as their local spokesman, people that everyone would trust, which meant local people, real people.
首先，他们决定，如果品牌的外国性是一个问题，如果外国性使爱丽儿不值得信任，那么他们需要使用每个人都信任的人作为他们的当地代言人，这意味着当地人，真正的人。
The ad agency gave them Ariel to use for a while and then filmed them talking about how great it is.
广告公司给了他们 Ariel 使用一段时间，然后拍摄了他们谈论它有多棒的视频。
We wanted to create the story about unfortunate people and how our product really contributed to better life.
我们想创作一个关于不幸的人的故事，以及我们的产品如何真正为改善生活做出贡献。
So we created real stories, for example, using a guy having four children and really with the hope to put his children in the good school, to offer them good education.
因此，我们创作了真实的故事，例如，使用一个有四个孩子的人，他真的希望让他的孩子进入好学校，为他们提供良好的教育。
Because the two main hopes for the people are to get the daughters married and to get sons educated.
因为人们的两个主要愿望是让女儿结婚和让儿子受教育。
And this is what we did.
这就是我们所做的。
We just asked the guy to talk in front of a camera that he wants to educate his children, he is a poor man.
我们只是让那个人在镜头前说他想教育他的孩子，他是一个穷人。
He can't afford it to do it with one job.
他无法只靠一份工作来完成这件事。
This is why he actually has to do two jobs.
这就是为什么他实际上必须做两份工作。
And because not having enough clothes, his wife helps him by washing with Ariel to look impeccable, working two jobs.
由于没有足够的衣服，他的妻子帮他和 Ariel 一起洗澡，让他看起来无可挑剔，同时打两份工。
And here is the hope for the future.
这就是未来的希望。
And so what does the US need to do to win the hearts and minds of these same people?
那么，美国需要做什么才能赢得这些人的民心呢？
Well, Zdenka says that the US needs to let people know that it is on their side, same as Ariel did.
兹登卡说，美国需要让人们知道美国站在他们一边，就像阿里尔所做的那样。
And this is where it gets tricky.
这就是棘手的地方。
Because after all, in these countries, plenty of people are mad at the United States because they believe that we are emphatically not on their side.
因为毕竟，在这些国家，很多人对美国感到愤怒，因为他们认为我们绝对不站在他们一边。
We do things that they disagree with.
我们做他们不同意的事情。
We support local governments they don't like.
我们支持他们不喜欢的地方政府。
We drop bombs that sometimes hit civilians.
我们投掷的炸弹有时会击中平民。
We give money and arms to the state of Israel.
我们向以色列国提供资金和武器。
And so there are people that we are not going to persuade.
所以有些人我们不会说服。
Well, obviously, in marketing in general, a good advertisement cannot compensate for a faulty product.
显然，在一般营销中，好的广告无法弥补有缺陷的产品。
John Quelch is a professor of marketing at the Harvard Business School and author of a book of case studies on how to market products in the Muslim world.
约翰·奎尔奇是哈佛商学院的营销学教授，也是一本关于如何在穆斯林世界营销产品的案例研究书的作者。
So there will undoubtedly be a certain core, a certain set of individuals in each of these Muslim countries whom advertising will not be able to achieve anything with because the policies will still not be perceived as being satisfactory.
因此，毫无疑问，在每个穆斯林国家中，都会有一定的核心、一定的个人群体，广告对他们来说将无法取得任何成果，因为政策仍然不会被认为令人满意。
The problem here is more than a communications problem.
这里的问题不仅仅是沟通问题。
It's a problem that relates to policy.
这是一个与政策相关的问题。
It's a problem that relates to the degree to which, first of all, that they don't know the United States.
这个问题首先与他们对美国的不了解程度有关。
Here's what beginners we are at selling ourselves in most Muslim countries.
以下是我们在大多数穆斯林国家向初学者推销自己的内容。
John Quelch says, we don't even have the most basic polling data to tell us what people think of us.
约翰·奎尔奇说，我们甚至没有最基本的民意调查数据来告诉我们人们对我们的看法。
How many people hate us so much that they will never be persuaded?
有多少人如此恨我们，以至于永远无法被说服？
How many might be open to hearing our side of things?
有多少人愿意倾听我们的观点？
This is, in my opinion, a generation-long effort.
在我看来，这是一代人的努力。
And as our nation embarks on this campaign for hearts and minds, we thought here at This American Life that it might be helpful to broadcast on the radio a cautionary tale or two, stories of people in wartime trying to win hearts and minds who, at some point, started to believe their own propaganda which, I guess, is kind of an occupational hazard.
当我们的国家开始这场争取人心的运动时，我们在《美国生活》中认为，在广播中播放一两个警示故事可能会有所帮助，这些故事讲述的是战时人们试图赢得人心的故事，他们在某种程度上开始相信自己的宣传，我想，这是一种职业危害。
And they lost important battles because of that.
他们因此失去了重要的战斗。
Our program today in two acts.
我们今天的节目分两幕。
Act One, Don't Believe Anything You Hear On The Radio.
第一幕，不要相信你在广播中听到的任何内容。
In that act, we bring you what we believe are tapes that have never been broadcast in the United States, tapes of a clandestine radio station that the CIA set up back in the good old, bad old days of the 1950s to overthrow a central American government, which they succeeded in doing, using the immense power of radio.
在这次行动中，我们为您带来了我们认为从未在美国播放过的录音带，这些录音带是中央情报局在 20 世纪 50 年代美好而糟糕的过去建立的一个秘密广播电台的录音带，目的是推翻中美洲政府，他们利用广播的巨大力量成功地做到了这一点。
Or that's what the CIA believed anyway.
或者说中央情报局就是这么认为的。
Act Two, Live On Stage By The Sword, Die On Stage By The Sword.
第二幕，台上生于剑，死于台上剑。
In that act, a story of wartime, of altruism and self-interest, of believing one's own publicity, and of a 50-year campaign for hearts and minds that was better known as The Bob Hope USO Tour.
在那一幕中，讲述了一个关于战时、关于利他主义和自利、关于相信自己的宣传的故事，以及一场长达 50 年的民心运动的故事，该运动更广为人知的是“鲍勃·霍普 USO 之旅”。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Don't Believe Anything You Hear On The Radio.
第一幕，不要相信你在广播中听到的任何内容。
Well, let's begin our show today with what was considered, sort of famously, actually, to be one of our nation's most successful campaigns to win hearts and minds.
好吧，让我们今天开始我们的节目，实际上，这被认为是我们国家最成功的赢得民心的运动之一。
In retrospect, it serves as a kind of best case and worst case scenario for what we'd like to accomplish around the world these days.
回想起来，它是我们目前希望在世界各地实现的目标的最好情况和最坏情况。
It involved a clandestine radio station that the CIA set up to help overthrow the government of Guatemala back in 1954.
其中涉及中央情报局于 1954 年为帮助推翻危地马拉政府而设立的一个秘密广播电台。
In the late 1990s, during a brief period when the CIA was declassifying old Cold War materials, tapes of this clandestine station were declassified thanks to the efforts of a nonprofit group called The National Security Archive.
20 世纪 90 年代末，在中央情报局解密旧冷战材料的短暂时期，在一个名为国家安全档案馆的非营利组织的努力下，这个秘密电台的磁带被解密。
As best as we can tell, these tapes have never been broadcast in the United States.
据我们所知，这些磁带从未在美国播放过。
Nancy Updike tells this story.
南希·厄普代克讲述了这个故事。
The democratically elected president of Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz, did a few things to get on the wrong side of the United States government.
危地马拉民选总统雅各布·阿本斯做了一些与美国政府对立的事情。
For one, he tangled with a very powerful American company called United Fruit.
首先，他与一家非常强大的美国公司联合水果公司发生了争执。
They grew and exported bananas.
他们种植并出口香蕉。
They were also Guatemala's largest private employer and its biggest landowner.
他们也是危地马拉最大的私人雇主和最大的土地所有者。
Most of the 566,000 acres United Fruit owned in Guatemala were uncultivated.
联合果品公司在危地马拉拥有的 566,000 英亩土地中，大部分尚未开垦。
And when Arbenz came to power, he started nationalizing the country's land, buying up tens of thousands of those uncultivated acres for a nominal fee and giving them out to peasants.
当阿本斯上台后，他开始将国家的土地国有化，以象征性的费用购买了数万英亩未开垦的土地，并将其分发给农民。
United Fruit complained to the US government.
联合水果公司向美国政府投诉。
It was the height of the Cold War, Arbenz had communists among his advisers, and the US didn't want Guatemala to become a Soviet beachhead.
当时正值冷战高峰期，阿本斯的顾问中有共产党人，而美国也不希望危地马拉成为苏联的滩头阵地。
Guatemala, after all, was only a four-hour flight from New Orleans, a representative from Ohio darkly reminded Congress.
俄亥俄州的一位代表阴暗地提醒国会，危地马拉毕竟距离新奥尔良只有四个小时的航程。
Because Eisenhower didn't want to seem like he was intervening in another country's affairs, he sent the CIA.
因为艾森豪威尔不想让自己看起来像是在干涉他国事务，所以他派出了中央情报局。
They were given a couple of old airplanes that would fly over the capital to scare people, drop leaflets and, very rarely, a bomb.
他们得到了几架旧飞机，这些飞机会飞过首都上空吓唬人们、投放传单，甚至在极少数情况下投放炸弹。
The CIA had a different president in mind for Guatemala, a disgruntled lieutenant colonel in exile named Castillo Armas.
中央情报局为危地马拉设想了一位不同的总统，一位心怀不满的流亡中校，名叫卡斯蒂略·阿马斯。
The CIA dubbed him, "The Liberator."
中央情报局称他为“解放者”。
The military that Castillo Armas had, which the CIA put together for him, was a ragtag force.
卡斯蒂略·阿马斯的军队是中央情报局为他组建的，是一支乌合之众的军队。
This is Nick Grace.
这是尼克·格雷斯。
I'm going to tell you who he is in a minute.
我一会儿就告诉你他是谁。
This was essentially an army that was toothless.
这本质上是一支没有牙齿的军队。
And in order to promote the army, if you will, essentially, they depended upon propaganda.
为了宣传军队，如果你愿意的话，基本上，他们依赖于宣传。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike This is the propaganda outfit the CIA set up, Radio Liberacion, Liberation Radio.
[西班牙语] Nancy Updike 这是中央情报局设立的宣传机构，解放电台。
And it was basically three Guatemalan guys that the CIA recruited, funded, and trained in psychological warfare-- disinformation, propaganda, scare tactics.
中央情报局招募、资助和训练的基本上是三个危地马拉人，他们从事心理战——虚假信息、宣传、恐吓战术。
From May through July of 1954, these guys went on the air to tell Guatemala about the bold, homegrown liberation movement they were part of, a movement to free the country from the iron grip of international Communism.
从 1954 年 5 月到 7 月，这些人通过广播向危地马拉讲述了他们所参与的大胆的本土解放运动，这场运动旨在将该国从国际共产主义的铁蹄下解放出来。
This, of course, was a lie.
这当然是一个谎言。
There was no homegrown liberation movement, only a CIA plot.
没有本土的解放运动，只有中央情报局的阴谋。
It essentially was an elaborate puppet show that was played out over the airwaves.
它本质上是一场精心制作的木偶戏，通过广播播放。
Which brings us back to Nick Grace.
这让我们回到尼克·格雷斯。
He collects clandestine broadcasts from around the world and is probably the only person alive who's listened to all 54 of the tapes of Radio Liberacion.
他收集世界各地的秘密广播，并且可能是唯一一个听过解放电台全部 54 盘磁带的活着的人。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace This was an air check.
[西班牙语] Nick Grace 这是一次空中检查。
The announcer states, "Every Guatemalan should have, as symbols in his struggle against Communism, God, fatherland, and liberty against Communism, against the vices of the past.
播音员说：“每个危地马拉人在反对共产主义的斗争中都应该拥有上帝、祖国和自由，作为反对共产主义、反对过去罪恶的象征。
For a true democracy, this is Radio Liberacion."
对于真正的民主来说，这就是解放电台。”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace "Operating on its clandestine shortwave transmitter from some secret place in the Republic of Guatemala."
[西班牙语]尼克·格雷斯“在危地马拉共和国的某个秘密地点使用秘密短波发射机进行操作。”
Explain do you know how much was pre-recorded and how much they did live on the spot?
解释一下，你知道有多少是预先录制的，有多少是现场直播的吗？
That's tough to say.
这很难说。
I think, on the whole, perhaps roughly 80% to 90% of it was pre-recorded in Florida, Opa-Locka, and brought down to the transmitter site-- which we believe was in Nicaragua-- by diplomatic pouch.
我认为，总体而言，大约 80% 到 90% 的内容可能是在佛罗里达州奥帕洛卡预先录制的，并通过外交邮袋传送到发射地点（我们认为位于尼加拉瓜）。
So these very passionate, patriotic exhortations to free Guatemala from some outside influence were all recorded in Florida?
那么，这些将危地马拉从某些外部影响中解放出来的非常热情、爱国的劝告都记录在佛罗里达州吗？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace This broadcast was, in fact, one of the ones that was made in the bush, so to speak.
[西班牙语] 尼克·格雷斯（Nick Grace）事实上，可以说，这个广播是在丛林中制作的广播之一。
So it was not recorded in Florida, you're saying?
你是说它不是在佛罗里达录制的？
No, this was recorded in Nicaragua.
不，这是在尼加拉瓜录制的。
Do you hear the hum on the audio?
您听到音频中的嗡嗡声吗？
Yeah, what is it?
是啊，那是什么？
Nick Grace They set up so quickly in Nicaragua that they weren't even able to ground their equipment properly.
Nick Grace 他们在尼加拉瓜的建立速度如此之快，以至于他们甚至无法将设备正确接地。
In all of the broadcasts that were done in the jungle, you can hear this hum.
在所有在丛林中进行的广播中，您都可以听到这种嗡嗡声。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace They announce, "Radio Liberacion calling Agent Bernardo.
[西班牙语]尼克·格雷斯 他们宣布，“解放电台呼叫特工贝尔纳多。
Wait at the agreed place.
到约定地点等候。
Two hours later, launch the attack in sector R-25.
两小时后，对R-25区发起攻击。
The map shows the exact location of the target.
地图显示了目标的确切位置。
Good luck.
祝你好运。
Signed, The High Command." They were essentially sending the message to the government that we have maps, we've got agents, we have already chopped up Guatemala into various sectors, we've got a High Command, we're well armed, and we're right at your doorstep.
签署，最高统帅部。”他们本质上是向政府传达这样的信息：我们有地图，我们有特工，我们已经将危地马拉分割成各个部分，我们有一个最高指挥部，我们装备精良，我们就在你家门口。
What was actually happening?
到底发生了什么？
Nick Grace Absolutely nothing is happening.
尼克·格雷斯 绝对没有发生任何事情。
An interesting thing about this is that he says, "Tomorrow at 9,300 hours, you will receive the requested equipment."
有趣的是，他说：“明天 9,300 点，您将收到所要求的设备。”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace Well, 9,300 hours, there's no such term.
[说西班牙语] Nick Grace 嗯，9,300 小时，没有这样的术语。
So you can see--
所以你可以看到——
I heard that, and I thought, what is that?
我听到了，我想，那是什么？
Is it some sort of different military clock?
这是某种不同的军用时钟吗？
Or they didn't know what they were talking about?
或者他们根本不知道自己在说什么？
They, essentially, didn't know what they were talking about.
本质上，他们不知道自己在说什么。
I wonder if there was any CIA guy listening who heard them say, "9,300 hours" and just went, oh, no, don't say that.
我想知道是否有中央情报局人员在听他们说“9,300 小时”，然后就说，哦，不，不要这么说。
I think the CIA, at this point, was very happy with the results.
我认为中央情报局此时对结果非常满意。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike All right.
[西班牙语] 南希·厄普代克 好吧。
What are they doing here?
他们在这里做什么？
Here, they're sending a quote unquote "coded message" to the guerrilla army, saying, "There's an important message.
在这里，他们向游击队发送了一条不带引号的“编码消息”，说：“有一个重要的消息。
And here we go."
我们开始吧。”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace "Our house--"
[西班牙语]尼克·格雷斯“我们的房子——”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace "--has seven doors--"
[西班牙语]尼克·格雷斯“——有七扇门——”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace "--all are green--"
[西班牙语]尼克·格雷斯“——全部都是绿色的——”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace "--except one--"
[说西班牙语]尼克·格雷斯“——除了一个——”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace "--which is yellow."
[西班牙语]尼克·格雷斯“——这是黄色的。”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace The perception is that it's a coded message, that something is going to result out of this announcement.
[西班牙语] Nick Grace 人们的看法是，这是一条加密信息，该公告将会产生一些结果。
Because people had been hearing these kinds of announcements for a month and a half, as well as hearing announcements saying, look out your window, step outside on your patio, and step out into the streets in five minutes, a present will come to you.
因为人们已经听到这样的公告一个半月了，并且听到这样的公告：看看窗外，走到你的露台上，五分钟内走到街上，一份礼物就会降临到你身上。
They step outside, and these anti-government leaflets are dropped out of these aircraft.
他们走出去，这些反政府传单就从飞机上掉落下来。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike Now this one is completely different from the other ones.
[说西班牙语] Nancy Updike 现在这个与其他完全不同。
He's almost being a real DJ in a way, where he's coming on and he's being very intimate and saying, "Hi.
在某种程度上，他几乎是一名真正的 DJ，他上台时非常亲密地说：“嗨。
What's up?
怎么了？
How are you?
你好吗？
I'm glad."
我很高兴。”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike "Don't worry about us." The rest of them are so bombastic, and this one is so--
[说西班牙语] 南希·厄普代克“别担心我们。”其余的都那么夸张，而这个则是——
Personable?
风度翩翩？
Nancy Updike Yeah.
南希·厄普代克 是的。
Well, and so intimate.
嗯，而且很亲密。
It's just like he's one guy, and he's talking directly to you.
就好像他是一个人，他直接和你说话。
That's what, essentially, they were trying to do, personalize the people behind the microphone.
从本质上讲，这就是他们想要做的，使麦克风后面的人个性化。
They also wanted to put across the fact that they were supposedly broadcasting from the jungle, from the mountains and that it's very tranquil, the air is clean, there are lots of wild animals.
他们还想传达这样一个事实：他们应该是从丛林、山区进行广播，那里非常安静，空气干净，有很多野生动物。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nick Grace For the populace, hearing that, they think, gosh, there's an area of my country which the government has no reach.
[西班牙语] 尼克·格雷斯（Nick Grace） 对于民众来说，听到这个消息，他们会想，天啊，我国有一个地区是政府无法触及的。
"There may have been hardships," as he says.
正如他所说，“可能有困难。”
"But yet, the warm support that we get from people everywhere is strong," he says.
“但是，我们从世界各地得到的人们的热情支持是强有力的，”他说。
"It's very satisfying."
“非常满意。”
Well, I was a young boy, I was 11 years old, when we started to listen to Radio Liberacion.
嗯，我还是个小男孩，11 岁那年我们开始听解放电台。
That was the name that it took.
这就是它的名字。
The slogan was there from the very beginning, I believe.
我相信这个口号从一开始就存在。
Dios, Patria, Libertad.
迪奥斯，帕特里亚，自由。
God, Fatherland, Liberty.
上帝、祖国、自由。
Raul Molina is 58 years old and now lives in New York City.
Raul Molina 58 岁，现居纽约市。
His father worked for United Fruit.
他的父亲在联合水果公司工作。
They lived in Guatemala City.
他们住在危地马拉城。
And every day, the whole family would listen to both the government station and Radio Liberacion.
每天，全家人都会收听政府电台和解放电台。
They wanted to stay well informed.
他们希望随时了解情况。
Molina and I listened to some of the broadcasts.
莫利纳和我听了一些广播。
He hadn't heard them since he was a kid.
他从小就没有听过他们的声音。
That's the national anthem of Guatemala playing.
这是危地马拉的国歌。
Molina is a serious man with a round face.
莫利纳是一个严肃的男人，有着一张圆脸。
He fled Guatemala in 1980, fearing for his life.
1980 年，他因担心自己的生命安全而逃离危地马拉。
He was a university president, and the army was routinely shooting people like him.
他是一名大学校长，军队经常枪杀像他这样的人。
Now he works as a translator for the UN.
现在他在联合国担任翻译。
I watched his face for reactions to the tapes, but mostly he just listened, intently.
我观察他的表情，看看他对录音带的反应，但大多数时候他只是聚精会神地听。
You just laughed a little bit.
你只是笑了一点。
What were you laughing about?
你笑什么？
Well, I was laughing about "from a secret place," like it was very much in the outskirts of Guatemala and so on.
嗯，我笑的是“来自一个秘密的地方”，就像是在危地马拉的郊区等等。
They made us believe that they were somewhere else.
他们让我们相信他们在别的地方。
And you did believe that they were in the jungles?
你确实相信他们在丛林里吗？
Certainly, we did believe.
当然，我们确实相信。
We thought that they might be probably in one of the mountains close to the border to Honduras.
我们认为它们可能位于靠近洪都拉斯边境的一座山脉中。
Everyone was thinking that that was the case.
所有人都这么想。
When did your family realize that these broadcasts weren't real?
你的家人什么时候意识到这些广播不是真实的？
Well, most Guatemalans realized many years afterwards.
大多数危地马拉人在很多年后才意识到这一点。
We lived through a period from 1954 easily to the early '60s believing most of what had been played on this station.
我们轻松地度过了从 1954 年到 60 年代初的一段时期，相信这个电台播放的大部分内容。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike Do you remember these guys' voices?
[说西班牙语] 南希·厄普代克 你还记得这些人的声音吗？
Are they familiar?
他们很熟悉吗？
Yes.
是的。
And one of them is Lionel Sisniega Otero who is still a politician in Guatemala.
其中之一是莱昂内尔·西斯涅加·奥特罗（Lionel Sisniega Otero），他仍然是危地马拉的政治家。
He's in Guatemala.
他在危地马拉。
And he's in politics.
而且他涉足政界。
He's with the present government as a matter of fact.
事实上，他是现任政府的一员。
Well, I feel very bad about the present government in Guatemala, to tell you the truth.
好吧，说实话，我对危地马拉现任政府感到非常难过。
We have a neo-fascist regime in Guatemala.
危地马拉有一个新法西斯政权。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike Radio Liberacion was such elaborate deception, the CIA guy running the radio operation was a former actor and a writer.
[说西班牙语]南希·厄普代克解放电台是一个精心策划的骗局，中央情报局负责电台运作的人是一名前演员和作家。
And he put the thing together like a play.
他把这件事像戏剧一样组合在一起。
There's one broadcast where they even staged a fake takeover of the station, as though government soldiers had suddenly discovered their plucky clandestine outfit in the mountains and had tried to run them off the air.
有一次广播中，他们甚至假装接管了电视台，就好像政府士兵突然在山里发现了他们勇敢的秘密组织，并试图让他们停止广播。
The drama comes in the middle of a regular broadcast.
该剧正在常规播出中播出。
The announcer is talking.
播音员正在讲话。
And then all of a sudden, you start to hear a little commotion in the background.
然后突然间，你开始听到背景中有一点骚动。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] [SOUND OF AN EXPLOSION]
[说西班牙语] [爆炸声]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike He seems distracted.
[说西班牙语] 南希·厄普代克 他似乎心烦意乱。
Other people are talking behind him.
其他人在他身后议论纷纷。
Someone is saying, "Shh, shh." Then you notice the announcer sounds out of breath.
有人在说：“嘘，嘘。”然后你注意到播音员听起来气喘吁吁。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike Abruptly, there's an increase in the scuffling in the background, and it escalates to the denouement.
[说西班牙语] 南希·厄普代克 突然，背景中的扭打声增加，并升级为结局。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] [SOUND OF PEOPLE YELLING]
[说西班牙语] [人们喊叫的声音]
[SOUND OF GUNSHOTS] [SOUND OF A WOMAN SCREAMING]
[枪声] [女人尖叫声]
And then silence.
然后是沉默。
The station goes off the air at this point, leaving listeners to wonder what had happened.
电台此时停播，让听众想知道发生了什么。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike Two days later, Radio Liberacion came back on the air and smugly explained that although government thugs had tried to shut down their transmitter, the brave rebels had thwarted them.
[西班牙语] 南希·厄普代克 两天后，解放电台重新播出，并得意地解释说，尽管政府暴徒试图关闭他们的发射机，但勇敢的叛军挫败了他们。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike After two months of broadcasts, the government of Guatemala fell.
[西班牙语]南希·厄普代克 经过两个月的广播，危地马拉政府倒台。
And it was a success that cemented the reputation of the fledgling Central Intelligence Agency.
这一成功巩固了刚刚起步的中央情报局的声誉。
It's hard to remember this today, but in 1954, the CIA was still a relatively young organization, only seven years old, still in the midst of trying to define and justify itself.
今天很难记住这一点，但在 1954 年，中央情报局仍然是一个相对年轻的组织，只有七岁，仍在试图定义和证明自己的正当性。
When Arbenz fell, the CIA was ecstatic.
当阿本斯倒台时，中央情报局欣喜若狂。
Its critics turned into fans.
它的批评者变成了粉丝。
Eisenhower, in his memoirs, called the overthrow of Arbenz one of his proudest moments.
艾森豪威尔在回忆录中称推翻阿本茨是他最自豪的时刻之一。
The operation went down in CIA history as quote, "an unblemished triumph."
这次行动被载入中情局历史，被称为“一次完美的胜利”。
Nick Cullather is a historian the CIA hired a few years ago to write an official internal history of what happened.
尼克·卡拉瑟是中央情报局几年前聘请的历史学家，负责撰写有关所发生事件的官方内部历史。
Cullather was given full access to all documents related to the Guatemalan coup.
卡拉瑟有权查阅与危地马拉政变有关的所有文件。
He says that in spite of everything else that went into the operation-- the CIA had tried to infiltrate the army and foment student uprisings, the planes had increased their flights over the capital-- there was no doubt in the CIA's mind what had made the critical difference.
他说，尽管行动中做了很多其他事情——中央情报局试图渗透军队并煽动学生起义，飞机增加了在首都上空的航班——但中央情报局认为，毫无疑问是什么造成了关键的变化。
It seemed, to the CIA, that the radio had caused the government and President Arbenz to inexplicably crack psychologically.
在中央情报局看来，广播似乎让政府和阿本斯总统出现了莫名其妙的心理崩溃。
President Arbenz left the presidential palace, walked across the street to the embassy of Mexico, and abdicated.
阿本斯总统离开总统府，穿过街道前往墨西哥大使馆，然后退位。
And that was the conclusion of the operation.
这就是手术的结论。
And at that point, everything else was failing.
那时，其他一切都失败了。
The secret army that they had assembled was in full retreat.
他们集结的秘密军队正在全面撤退。
The air operations appeared not to be having any result.
空中行动似乎没有取得任何成果。
The student groups that they'd organized to foment rebellion in the capital city had all been rounded up, jailed, and executed.
他们组织的在首都煽动叛乱的学生团体都被围捕、监禁和处决。
Nothing else was going except the radio operation.
除了无线电操作之外，没有其他事情发生。
So it seemed to them that the radio operation must have worked.
因此，在他们看来，无线电操作一定有效。
But the CIA never did a serious analysis of what had happened in Guatemala and why it happened.
但中央情报局从未认真分析危地马拉发生的事情以及发生的原因。
They didn't talk to any Guatemalans.
他们没有与任何危地马拉人交谈。
They didn't even go back over their own operation to determine what had worked.
他们甚至没有回顾自己的操作来确定哪些方法有效。
They relied on after-action reports provided by the agents involved.
他们依赖相关代理人提供的事后报告。
The propaganda guys were the best storytellers, and their version of events stuck.
宣传人员是最好的故事讲述者，他们对事件的描述也被固定了下来。
In other words, the agency hired a bunch of liars, taught them to lie better, and then believed them.
换句话说，该机构雇佣了一群骗子，教他们更好地撒谎，然后相信他们。
It created a legend about the types of operations that could be successful, the belief that, at very low cost and with very little loss of life, one could overthrow a government if one used the right combination of military and psychological action.
它创造了一个关于可能成功的行动类型的传奇，人们相信，如果将军事行动和心理行动正确结合起来，就可以以极低的成本和极少的生命损失推翻政府。
But it really also set up the whole repertoire that the CIA continues to use today.
但它确实也建立了中央情报局今天继续使用的全部手段。
If you take a look at the operations in Central America in the 1980s, the operations following the Gulf War in Iraq, some of the operations that are underway in Afghanistan today, it's the same set of ideas.
如果你看看 20 世纪 80 年代在中美洲的行动、伊拉克海湾战争之后的行动以及今天在阿富汗正在进行的一些行动，你会发现这是同样的一套想法。
Small actions that create a climate of opinion within the country that leads to a feeling of inevitable doom.
小小的举动会在国内制造一种舆论氛围，导致一种不可避免的厄运感。
But this whole legend is built on a story that's not true.
但这整个传说都是建立在一个不真实的故事之上的。
Arbenz didn't resign because the radio broadcasts psyched him out.
阿本斯并没有辞职，因为无线电广播让他感到兴奋。
He resigned because he could see that the United States would not stop until he was gone.
他之所以辞职，是因为他看到，在他离开之前，美国不会停下来。
Four months before the coup, the US pushed a resolution through the Organization of American States essentially giving it the right to intervene in Guatemala at will.
政变前四个月，美国通过美洲国家组织推动一项决议，实质上赋予其随意干预危地马拉的权利。
When Arbenz managed to get actual documentation of the CIA plot against him and made the information public, the State Department denounced it as a desperate and transparent communist propaganda effort, probably masterminded in Moscow.
当阿本斯设法获得中央情报局针对他的阴谋的实际文件并将信息公开时，国务院谴责这是一次绝望而透明的共产主义宣传活动，可能是在莫斯科策划的。
And the US press, from liberal to conservative, bought this.
美国媒体，从自由派到保守派，都接受了这一点。
In his final days, Arbenz appealed to the United Nations Security Council.
在生命的最后几天，阿本斯向联合国安理会发出呼吁。
The US strong-armed the Council, and it voted not to hear the case.
美国对安理会采取了强硬手段，安理会投票决定不审理此案。
But even after all this, he still might have hung on.
但即使经历了这一切，他仍然可能坚持下去。
In the end, Arbenz only resigned when his frightened army sent word from the field that if he didn't step down, they would march to the capital and depose him themselves.
最终，当他那支受惊的军队从战场传来消息说，如果他不下台，他们将进军首都并亲自废黜他时，阿本斯才辞职。
They, too, believed it was only a matter of time before the US would invade.
他们也相信美国入侵只是时间问题。
It seemed the only people who didn't see it that way were in the CIA.
似乎只有中央情报局的人不这么看。
Here's historian Nick Cullather.
请听历史学家尼克·卡拉瑟的报道。
It's very hard for me to separate the notion of force from the notion of propaganda because propaganda is always backed by force.
对我来说，很难将武力的概念与宣传的概念分开，因为宣传总是得到武力的支持。
When the Germans were attacking the French along the Maginot Line, they first put sirens on the Stuka dive bombers because the bombs themselves weren't having a great deal of effect on the French troops.
当德国人沿着马其诺防线攻击法军时，他们首先在斯图卡俯冲轰炸机上拉响警报，因为炸弹本身对法军没有太大影响。
But the sirens really made them run.
但警报声确实让他们逃跑了。
So was that force or was that propaganda?
那么这是力量还是宣传？
I think the people in the CIA saw that as propaganda.
我认为中央情报局的人认为这是宣传。
But I think a lot of people would take a look at that and say, no, that's just another variety of military force.
但我认为很多人看到这一点后会说，不，这只是另一种军事力量。
Cullather says, there are plenty of situations where it's right for us to use both force and propaganda, for us to intervene in the affairs of another country.
库拉瑟说，在很多情况下，我们可以同时使用武力和宣传来干涉他国事务。
Rwanda, for example, or the current war in Afghanistan.
例如，卢旺达或当前的阿富汗战争。
The problem, he says, is that we're not so good at facing the magnitude of that task.
他说，问题在于我们不太善于面对这项艰巨的任务。
It's easier to destroy a government than to create one that's stable over the long term.
摧毁一个政府比建立一个长期稳定的政府更容易。
In the CIA documents he examined, he found that the Agency's ideas about a future Guatemalan government were sketchy at best, sketchier, even, than our ideas about what kind of government should come to run Afghanistan.
在他检查的中央情报局文件中，他发现中情局关于未来危地马拉政府的想法充其量是粗略的，甚至比我们关于应该建立什么样的政府来管理阿富汗的想法还要粗略。
In Guatemala, things didn't work out so well.
在危地马拉，事情进展得不太顺利。
The man the CIA deposed turned out to be the last truly democratic leader Guatemala had.
中央情报局罢黜的人是危地马拉最后一位真正民主的领导人。
Armas, the man the CIA picked to replace Arbenz, was assassinated three years into his repressive regime.
阿马斯是中央情报局挑选的接替阿本斯的人，在他的专制统治三年后被暗杀。
And since then, it's been one long series of brutal military dictatorships interspersed with short-lived attempts at civilian rule.
从那时起，就出现了一系列残酷的军事独裁统治，其中夹杂着短暂的文官统治尝试。
Again, here's Raul Molina who heard Radio Liberacion as a child.
劳尔·莫利纳（Raul Molina）还是个孩子的时候就听过解放电台。
I remember watching a movie.
我记得看过一部电影。
I think it is Eisenhower coming out of a plane and saying now that Guatemala had been liberated, Guatemala was going to be an example for the world.
我认为这是艾森豪威尔从飞机上走下来说，现在危地马拉已经解放，危地马拉将成为世界的榜样。
And it became an example to the world, but of the things that you should never do in a country.
它成为世界的榜样，但却是你永远不应该在一个国家做的事情的榜样。
After that invasion, not a single day passed in Guatemala without violations of human rights with 200,000 Guatemalans killed and more than 45,000 Guatemalans disappeared.
那次入侵之后，危地马拉的人权无日不发生，有 20 万危地马拉人被杀，超过 45,000 名危地马拉人失踪。
So that's certainly the cost of this adventure that we have just heard started [?
所以这肯定是我们刚刚听说开始的这次冒险的成本[？
that way.
那样。
?]
？]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Nancy Updike In this broadcast, Radio Liberacion is announcing the resignation of Arbenz.
[西班牙语] 南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 在本次广播中，解放电台宣布阿本斯辞职。
It's a triumphant speech about how his overthrow is a victory for those fighting against foreign control.
这是一篇胜利的演讲，讲述了他的垮台如何成为那些反对外国控制的人的胜利。
But of course, the announcer is working for a foreign government.
但当然，播音员是为外国政府工作的。
He says joyfully, "Radio Liberacion is now transmitting live from the liberated territory of Guatemala." Every single part of that sentence is untrue.
他高兴地说：“解放电台现在正在从危地马拉解放区进行现场直播。”这句话的每一部分都是不真实的。
The transmission is not live.
传输不是实时的。
He's not in Guatemala.
他不在危地马拉。
And the country has not been liberated.
而国家还没有解放。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ira Glass Nancy Updike.
[西班牙语] Ira Glass 南希·厄普代克。
[MUSIC - "COMMIE DRIVES A NOVA" BY IKE REILLY]
[音乐 - IKE REILLY 的“COMMIE DRIVES A NOVA”]
Coming up, Bob Hope's dog bites our reporter in a minute from Public Radio International and Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
接下来，当我们的节目继续进行时，鲍勃·霍普的狗在国际公共广播电台和芝加哥公共广播电台的一分钟内咬了我们的记者。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Hearts and Minds, a story of wartime and propaganda efforts and what happens when you start to believe your own propaganda.
今天的节目《心灵与思想》讲述了战时和宣传工作的故事，以及当你开始相信自己的宣传时会发生什么。
We've come to the second act of our show.
我们已经进入演出的第二幕了。
Act Two, Live On Stage By The Sword, Die On Stage By The Sword.
第二幕，台上生于剑，死于台上剑。
So the cast of the movie Ocean's Eleven, George Clooney, Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, and the rest are going to entertain the troops at a US base in Turkey.
因此，电影《十一罗汉》的演员、乔治·克鲁尼、朱莉娅·罗伯茨、布拉德·皮特、马特·达蒙等人将前往土耳其的美军基地招待部队。
This is not entirely altruistic.
这并不完全是无私的。
They will be there to coincide with the multimillion dollar publicity campaign for the film's opening December 7, a day that will, of course, live in infamy.
他们将出席该电影 12 月 7 日耗资数百万美元的首映宣传活动，这一天当然会臭名昭著。
By going to Turkey, they will get some free publicity back home, a nice video of the stars palling around with cheering troops.
通过前往土耳其，他们将在国内获得一些免费的宣传，这是一段明星与欢呼的军队围在一起的精彩视频。
DVDs of the film will be sent to 11 grateful warships in the region.
影片的DVD将被发送给该地区11艘感谢的军舰。
All of which brings to mind this story which our contributing editor Margy Rochlin tells.
所有这些都让人想起我们的特约编辑玛吉·罗克林讲述的这个故事。
At the beginning of the Persian Gulf war, during the period when US forces were moving in, but no fighting had started, lots of soldiers found themselves stationed for months in the middle of nowhere, actually living and sleeping in battle formation, isolated from the outside world.
海湾战争刚开始时，美军正在开进，但战斗尚未开始，许多士兵发现自己在荒无人烟的地方驻扎了数月，实际上是在战斗队形中生活和睡觉，与外界隔绝。
So General Norman Schwarzkopf contacted Steve Martin, the actor and comedian, and asked him if he would go to the Middle East.
于是诺曼·施瓦茨科普夫将军联系了演员兼喜剧演员史蒂夫·马丁，询问他是否愿意去中东。
That's how Martin and his then wife, the British actress Victoria Tennant, ended up on their very own mini USO tour.
就这样，马丁和他当时的妻子、英国女演员维多利亚·田纳特 (Victoria Tennant) 开始了他们自己的迷你 USO 之旅。
They flew to a Saudi air base near the Kuwaiti front line.
他们飞往科威特前线附近的沙特空军基地。
And for about a week, they'd awaken at dawn, get into a troop carrier helicopter along with two pilots, two machine gunners, and a special Marine escort, and they'd visit soldiers stationed along the Iraqi-Kuwait border.
在大约一周的时间里，他们会在黎明醒来，与两名飞行员、两名机枪手和一名特种海军护卫一起登上运兵直升机，拜访驻扎在伊拉克和科威特边境的士兵。
Every 20 minutes or so, they'd land.
每隔 20 分钟左右，他们就会着陆。
And Steve Martin would climb on top of a tank, and about 75 soldiers would gather around.
史蒂夫·马丁 (Steve Martin) 会爬上坦克顶部，大约 75 名士兵会聚集在周围。
And for about a quarter of an hour, the comedian would just wing it.
在大约一刻钟的时间里，这位喜剧演员只是即兴发挥。
He'd clown around, answer questions, sign autographs, pose for pictures, whatever.
他会扮小丑、回答问题、签名、摆姿势拍照等等。
Not wanting to be just the tag-along wife, Victoria Tennant came up with a plan.
维多利亚·田纳特 (Victoria Tennant) 不想只做妻子的随从，她想出了一个计划。
She'd move through the crowd, collecting names and telephone numbers from the soldiers along with messages that she could relay to their loved ones when she got home.
她穿过人群，收集士兵们的姓名和电话号码，以及回家后可以转发给他们亲人的信息。
It was such a simple idea, but coming from this rich, prim-looking British woman, it must have seemed unexpected and, therefore, doubly moving.
这是一个如此简单的想法，但出自这位富有、外表拘谨的英国女人之口，一定让人感到意外，因此更加令人感动。
They opened up to her.
他们向她敞开心扉。
Single fathers asked her to call their children and say, "Your daddy loves you." Newly married men wanted her to let their brides know how much they were missed.
单亲父亲让她打电话给他们的孩子说：“你爸爸爱你。”新婚男子希望她让他们的新娘知道他们有多么想念。
It took Victoria Tennant days to make all the calls.
维多利亚·田纳特花了几天时间才拨通所有电话。
And the best thing about this story is you probably never heard it.
这个故事最棒的一点是你可能从未听说过它。
And the reason why is because Steve Martin and Victoria Tennant didn't want it publicized.
原因是史蒂夫·马丁和维多利亚·田纳特不想让这件事公开。
It was a pure, unselfish act, which brings us to Bob Hope.
这是一种纯粹、无私的行为，这让我们想到了鲍勃·霍普。
Bob Hope, of course, performed USO shows for a half century all over the world.
当然，鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 在世界各地进行了半个世纪的 USO 表演。
It was a hearts and minds campaign with two fronts.
这是一场涉及两个方面的人心活动。
The servicemen got a taste of home, and the people back home were reminded what great guys Bob Hope and all the other performers were.
军人们尝到了家乡的味道，家乡的人们也想起了鲍勃·霍普和所有其他表演者是多么伟大的人。
Now we at This American Life have no doubt at all that Bob Hope, and for that matter George Clooney and Brad Pitt, are all great, great guys.
现在，我们《美国生活》毫不怀疑鲍勃·霍普，还有乔治·克鲁尼和布拉德·皮特，都是非常非常伟大的人。
But we were curious about the intersection of public service and self-interest that occurs at a USO show.
但我们对 USO 展会上公共服务与自身利益的交叉点感到好奇。
Years ago, when Hope was still visiting the troops, Margy Rochlin talked with him about what he got out of it for a newspaper profile she was writing.
几年前，当霍普还在探望部队时，玛吉·罗克林与他谈论了他从她正在写的一篇报纸简介中得到的收获。
And we asked her to pull out her old tapes of Bob Hope and explain it to us.
我们请她拿出鲍勃·霍普的旧磁带并向我们解释。
As best as I can figure, it started innocently enough for Bob Hope.
据我所知，对于鲍勃·霍普来说，这一切的开始是天真的。
By 1941, Bob Hope's three-year-old radio show had made him the top radio star in the country.
到 1941 年，鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 三年的广播节目使他成为美国顶级广播明星。
Just before the war broke out, a representative from Pepsodent, the toothpaste company who sponsored the show, suggested to a reluctant Hope that he entertain the GIs at the March Field Air Base in Riverside, California.
就在战争爆发之前，赞助该节目的牙膏公司百事得的一位代表向不情愿的霍普建议，在加利福尼亚州河滨市的马奇空军基地招待美国大兵。
Hope said, no, he didn't think it was a good idea.
霍普说，不，他认为这不是一个好主意。
Nobody listened to him.
没有人听他的。
Next Tuesday, I was crawling on a bus going to March Field with Francis Langford, Jerry Colonna, Skinny Ennis, and the band.
下周二，我和弗朗西斯·兰福德、杰里·科隆纳、斯金尼·恩尼斯和乐队一起爬上一辆前往马奇菲尔德的公共汽车。
And the audience was sensational.
观众的反应非常热烈。
So much so that I said, wait a minute, this is tremendous.
以至于我说，等一下，这太棒了。
And we started doing it every week.
我们开始每周都这样做。
Went to Camp Pendleton, San Diego, Camp Cook, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] so and so.
去了圣地亚哥彭德尔顿营、库克营、[无法辨认]某某。
Everywhere around there, and finally, December, they declared war.
那里到处都是，最后，十二月，他们宣战了。
Now it's dramatic.
现在情况很戏剧化。
We went for five years, we played bases.
我们去了五年，我们打垒。
And it was the most sensational thing, most emotional part of my life.
这是我一生中最感人、最感人的部分。
That's what he was in it for at first.
这就是他一开始参与其中的目的。
Hope had never had an audience respond to him the way that the GIs did.
霍普从来没有像大兵那样得到观众的回应。
In his 1990 memoir, Don't Shoot, It's Only Me, Hope explains that before he began the USO tours, his producer's equation for a radio show allowed for 23 minutes of jokes and music, 3 minutes for commercials, and roughly 3 minutes for laughter.
霍普在 1990 年的回忆录《别开枪，只有我》中解释说，在他开始 USO 巡演之前，他的制作人制定的广播节目方程式允许 23 分钟的笑话和音乐、3 分钟的广告和大约 3 分钟的笑声。
But Hope's bits went over so huge at the army camps that they had to refigure the laugh time to 6 minutes.
但霍普的片段在军营里引起了巨大反响，以至于他们不得不将笑声时间重新调整为 6 分钟。
Over the next 50 years, Hope took his show all over the world, performing on the flight decks of aircraft carriers and out in the jungle on hastily constructed stages.
在接下来的 50 年里，霍普在世界各地举办了他的演出，在航空母舰的飞行甲板上和丛林中匆忙搭建的舞台上表演。
He was there during every war and major military action from World War II--
第二次世界大战期间的每场战争和重大军事行动他都在场——
We have a nice show here with Francis Langford, Jerry Colonna, Tony Romano, Patty Thomas, and Barney Dean.
我们与弗朗西斯·兰福德、杰里·科隆纳、托尼·罗马诺、帕蒂·托马斯和巴尼·迪恩一起在这里表演了一场精彩的表演。
I know you'll enjoy the girls.
我知道你会喜欢女孩们的。
You remember, girls?
姑娘们，你们还记得吗？
--to the Berlin airlift and the Korean War--
——柏林空运和朝鲜战争——
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Second Infantry Division occupying Korea except on Saturday night.
女士们先生们，这是占领朝鲜的第二步兵师（星期六晚上除外）。
It's on Saturday night when they occupy Seoul.
他们占领首尔的时间是周六晚上。
--to Vietnam-- Bob Hope No, but I'm very happy to be here at Tan Son Nhut, southeast Asia's biggest rocket base.
——去越南——鲍勃·霍普（Bob Hope） 不，但我很高兴来到东南亚最大的火箭基地新山一。
Yes, mostly incoming.
是的，大部分是传入的。
--to Beirut and the Middle East in the '80s--
——八十年代的贝鲁特和中东——
And may I tell you it's been a while since I've entertained servicemen.
我可以告诉你，我已经有一段时间没有招待军人了。
But Washington told me, if we can bring ships out of mothballs, why not you?
但华盛顿告诉我，如果我们能把船从樟脑中拿出来，为什么你不呢？
That program cost $70 billion, and I got a great idea.
该计划耗资 700 亿美元，而我想到了一个好主意。
If those planes are invisible, let's not build any, but tell the Iraqis they're up there.
如果这些飞机是隐形的，我们就不要建造任何飞机，而是告诉伊拉克人它们就在那里。
Hope was the wisecracking master of ceremonies.
希望是一位爱说俏皮话的司仪。
From show to show, the only thing that changed was the guest stars involved.
从一个节目到另一个节目，唯一改变的是参与的客串明星。
Big stars, Clark Gable, Fred Astaire, Mickey Mantle, Ann-Margret.
大明星，克拉克·盖博、弗雷德·阿斯泰尔、米基·曼特尔、安·玛格丽特。
There would definitely be a band, always beautiful women.
肯定会有一支乐队，总是漂亮的女人。
Sometimes the women would sing, maybe Hope would bounce a few one-liners off of them.
有时女人们会唱歌，也许霍普会从她们身上弹几句俏皮话。
Mostly, their job was to run on stage wearing not very much.
大多数情况下，他们的工作就是在舞台上不穿太多衣服跑步。
When they came out, the lonely GIs would howl their approval.
当他们出来时，孤独的美国士兵们会高声表示赞同。
I just want you boys to see what you're fighting for, that's all.
我只是想让你们孩子们看看你们在为什么而战，仅此而已。
Several times his life was in danger.
多次面临生命危险。
In Saigon, his hotel was bombed.
在西贡，他的酒店遭到轰炸。
During the Korean War, he was inadvertently landed on Wangsan Beach before the First Marine Division had taken it.
朝鲜战争期间，他在海军陆战第一师占领王山海滩之前无意中登陆。
One thing he was proud of.
他引以为傲的一件事是。
At each base, he'd tailor his material with inside jokes for the local servicemen.
在每个基地，他都会为当地军人量身定制包含内部笑话的材料。
The Defense Department got a letter from up here signed by 300 GIs, 2 Seals and a misplaced gooney bird.
国防部收到了一封来自这里的信，上面有 300 名美国士兵、2 名海豹突击队员和一只放错地方的粘鸟的签名。
And Colonel Jolly.
还有乔利上校。
[LAUGHTER] Bob Hope Thank you very much.
[笑声] 鲍勃·霍普 非常感谢你。
Here we are in U-Tapao, the gateway to beautiful downtown Sattahip.
我们现在位于乌塔堡，这里是通往美丽的梭桃邑市中心的门户。
[LAUGHTER] Bob Hope Look at those guys hanging out the window.
[笑声] 鲍勃·霍普 看看那些悬在窗外的家伙。
Room service must be late with the poo-ying.
客房服务一定要迟到了，带着便便。
I don't even want to know what that joke means.
我什至不想知道这个笑话意味着什么。
To understand what the USO shows did for Bob Hope's career, you have to remember that he was already the most popular star on radio and in the movies when he began doing the tours.
要了解 USO 演出对鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 职业生涯的影响，您必须记住，当他开始巡演时，他已经是广播和电影中最受欢迎的明星。
One of his biographers, Bill Faith, said the USO gave Bob Hope a popularity the likes of which we cannot even imagine today.
他的传记作者之一比尔·费思 (Bill Faith) 表示，USO 给鲍勃·霍普带来了我们今天无法想象的受欢迎程度。
It gave him the sheen of a national hero.
这给了他民族英雄的光辉。
And for a long time for Bob Hope, doing the USO tour was a balance of cheerful patriotism and good business.
在很长一段时间里，鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 的 USO 巡演是在欢快的爱国主义和良好的生意之间取得平衡的。
Until 1954, when the balance shifted and the business side of things took on a little more importance.
直到 1954 年，平衡发生了变化，商业方面变得更加重要。
1954 was when Bob Hope began the tradition of taping the USO shows, then selling them as television specials to NBC.
1954 年，鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 开始了录制 USO 节目的传统，然后将其作为电视特别节目出售给 NBC。
Arguably, they were the cornerstone on which he built the last 40 years of his career.
可以说，它们是他过去 40 年职业生涯的基石。
A common misconception about the USO shows is that they raised money for the organization, which isn't true.
关于 USO 节目的一个常见误解是他们为该组织筹集资金，但事实并非如此。
In fact, there's always been controversy about who paid for what.
事实上，关于谁支付了什么费用一直存在争议。
Bob Hope says he paid all production costs and even lost money in the long run.
鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 表示，他支付了所有制作成本，甚至从长远来看还赔了钱。
But it's not clear how.
但目前还不清楚如何。
The actors basically donated their time, although the USO says it occasionally paid them a small per diem.
演员们基本上都贡献了自己的时间，尽管美国劳务组织表示偶尔会向他们支付少量的每日津贴。
And everyone agrees that the Pentagon paid for transportation, most lodging, for the bulk of the bills.
每个人都同意五角大楼支付了交通费、大部分住宿费和大部分费用。
Now remember, Hope sold these shows to NBC.
现在请记住，霍普将这些节目卖给了 NBC。
But let's say he did lose money.
但假设他确实赔了钱。
You could not put a price tag on what he got in return.
你无法为他得到的回报贴上价格标签。
He'd do the USO show every Christmas which would build an audience for other comedy specials throughout the year.
他每年圣诞节都会参加 USO 节目，这将为全年其他喜剧特别节目吸引观众。
Bob Hope presents the hilarious, unrehearsed antics of the stars, starring Lucille Ball, Milton Berle--
鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 呈现了由露西尔·鲍尔 (Lucille Ball)、米尔顿·伯利 (Milton Berle) 主演的明星们未经排练的搞笑滑稽动作——
Just like the USO shows, each special was almost identical.
就像 USO 节目一样，每个特别节目几乎都是相同的。
First came the eight minute opening monologue.
首先是八分钟的开场独白。
He'd tell 35 to 40 jokes.
他会讲 35 到 40 个笑话。
Then came the guest stars, a song, and a corny skit segment at the end of the show.
然后是客串明星、一首歌曲和演出结束时的老生常谈的小品片段。
In 1986, I went to observe the legendary comedian tape one of these specials for NBC.
1986 年，我去观看了 NBC 的传奇喜剧演员的特别节目之一。
At one point, they did a spoof of Mutiny on the Bounty on a big wooden ship.
有一次，他们在一艘大木船上恶搞了赏金号上的叛变。
Hope was Captain Bligh, John Denver was Fletcher Christian, Broadway musical star Howard Keel was the Bounty's alcoholic doctor.
霍普是布莱船长，约翰·丹佛是弗莱彻·克里斯蒂安，百老汇音乐明星霍华德·基尔是赏金号的酗酒医生。
Morgan Brittany, who played Pam Ewing's evil half-sister on Dallas, was a prissy British missionary.
摩根·布列塔尼在《达拉斯》中饰演帕姆·尤因邪恶的同父异母妹妹，她是一位拘谨的英国传教士。
I can't remember what Jonathan Winters played, but he was in drag.
我不记得乔纳森·温特斯（Jonathan Winters）玩过什么，但他很拖沓。
He was dressed as a Polynesian dancer girl, I think, in a grass skirt and coconut bra.
我认为他穿着草裙和椰子胸罩，打扮得像个波利尼西亚舞女。
It looked like the easiest job in the world.
这看起来是世界上最简单的工作。
No one even pretended to have memorized their lines.
甚至没有人假装记住了他们的台词。
They just woodenly read their dialogue from cue cards.
他们只是木然地从提示卡上读出对话。
If they flubbed a joke, the cameras just kept rolling.
如果他们讲错了笑话，摄像机就会继续转动。
That was how they achieved the famous style of Bob Hope specials, or non-style really.
这就是他们如何实现鲍勃·霍普特色菜的著名风格，或者说真正的非风格。
It was supposed to be like watching famous people getting together for an hour to have a good time in front of the camera.
这应该就像看着名人聚在一起一个小时，在镜头前度过愉快的时光。
In the TV business, these specials were famous because they always got top ratings, and they didn't cost Hope much to produce.
在电视行业，这些特别节目之所以出名，是因为它们总是能获得最高的收视率，而且霍普的制作成本并不高。
Back in the '60s, Bob Hope had this amazing clause inserted into his contract.
早在 60 年代，鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 的合同中就加入了这一令人惊奇的条款。
Charges by NBC technicians were frozen at 1961 rates.
NBC 技术人员的收费被冻结在 1961 年的水平。
Back when NBC struck that deal with him, it might have seemed like a good way to keep Hope at the network.
当 NBC 与他达成这项协议时，这似乎是让霍普留在电视台的好方法。
But 25 years had passed.
但25年过去了。
If he wanted to have a set built, the fee was circa 1961.
如果他想要制作一套，费用大约是 1961 年。
He paid next to nothing to use the editing and post-production facilities, their manpower, everything.
他几乎没有支付任何费用来使用编辑和后期制作设施、人力以及一切。
That was the whole beauty of his setup.
这就是他的设置的全部优点。
He knew that people tuned in to a Bob Hope special to see Bob Hope.
他知道人们会收看鲍勃·霍普特别节目来观看鲍勃·霍普。
The costumes and talent were just window dressing.
服装和才华只是装饰门面。
Why pay people to rehearse?
为什么要花钱请人排练？
Why waste money?
为什么要浪费钱呢？
Call it the most economical star-delivery system television has ever seen.
称其为有史以来最经济的明星传送系统电视。
This guy was a genius.
这家伙是个天才。
Not long after I watched them film that sketch, I went to interview Bob Hope at his 50 room house on a quiet tree-lined street in the San Fernando Valley.
在我看完他们拍摄那段小品后不久，我就去采访了鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope)，他的房子位于圣费尔南多谷一条绿树成荫的安静街道上，他的房子有 50 个房间。
Hope had two dogs, a black lab and a white Alsatian, and they followed us up the driveway, growling.
霍普养了两只狗，一只是黑色拉布拉多犬，一只是白色阿尔萨斯犬，它们沿着车道跟着我们，咆哮着。
Are you watching the dog?
你在看狗吗？
Bob Hope Hello, baby.
鲍勃·霍普 你好，宝贝。
Hello, baby.
你好，宝贝。
Don't look at her.
别看她。
Don't look at her.
别看她。
That's OK.
没关系。
When one of them nipped at me, Hope kept insisting they were completely harmless.
当其中一只咬我时，霍普一直坚称它们完全无害。
He's a good boy.
他是个好孩子。
Margy Rochlin Ow.
玛吉·罗克林·欧。
He just sort of grabbed my arm here.
他只是抓住了我的手臂。
He's never bitten anybody but one of my writers.
除了我的一位作家之外，他从来没有咬过任何人。
All right.
好的。
All right.
好的。
Ouch.
哎哟。
She just bit me again.
她刚刚又咬了我一下。
Bob Hope OK.
鲍勃·霍普 好的。
Come on, hey.
来吧，嘿。
All right now.
现在好了。
Don't start.
不要开始。
Things went downhill from there.
事情从那里开始走下坡路。
Bob Hope and I had no chemistry, none.
鲍勃·霍普和我没有化学反应，没有。
He'd tell jokes that I didn't get.
他会讲我听不懂的笑话。
And not only that, after he'd delivered the punch line, he'd lean towards me, fix me with his brown eyes, and gauge my response.
不仅如此，在他讲完妙语之后，他会向我倾身，用棕色的眼睛注视着我，并评估我的反应。
So I'd laugh.
所以我会笑。
The things I said only made him fall into long exasperated silences.
我说的话只会让他陷入长久的愤怒的沉默之中。
It was awkward.
很尴尬。
So we ate lunch, creamed chicken and peas with rice.
所以我们吃了午餐，奶油鸡肉和豌豆米饭。
I think I wanted him to show me how he'd changed with the times, how he'd subtly tweaked his material to better reflect his age or adapted it so that it resonated with the popular culture.
我想我想让他向我展示他如何随着时代的变化而变化，他如何巧妙地调整他的材料以更好地反映他的年龄或对其进行调整以使其与流行文化产生共鸣。
So I asked him a question.
所以我问了他一个问题。
Are you pretty sympathetic to the women's movement?
您非常同情妇女运动吗？
There I was sitting with a man in his early 80s who was still telling hubba-hubba jokes, and I'm quizzing him about the women's movement.
我和一个 80 岁出头的男人坐在一起，他还在讲哈巴哈巴笑话，我正在向他询问妇女运动的情况。
What was I expecting?
我在期待什么？
I am sympathetic to any woman's movement.
我同情任何女性的运动。
I do a joke on it.
我对此开了个玩笑。
Because it's such a big laugh that I close my act on it.
因为这实在是太搞笑了，所以我就结束了我的表演。
"It's nice to be here in Honolulu.
“很高兴来到檀香山。
And I tell you, women are really coming to the fore in this world." I said, "It's wonderful.
我告诉你，女性确实在这个世界上脱颖而出。”我说：“太棒了。
I'm so happy because we pushed them around long enough, kept them down.
我很高兴，因为我们把他们推来推去足够长的时间，压垮了他们。
In fact, I remember a friend of mine saying to his wife, 'How could you be so incredibly beautiful and so incredibly stupid?' And she said, 'It's God's will.' He says, 'What do you mean?' She says, 'Well, he made me incredibly beautiful, so you would be attracted to me, and made me incredibly stupid, so I'd be attracted to you.'" Well, they die.
事实上，我记得我的一个朋友对他的妻子说：“你怎么能如此美丽却如此愚蠢？”她说：“这是上帝的旨意。”他说：“你是什么意思？”她说，‘好吧，他让我变得异常美丽，所以你会被我吸引，也让我变得异常愚蠢，所以我会被你吸引。’”好吧，他们死了。
And I'd say, "That's for the ladies.
我会说：“那是给女士们的。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
God bless you.
上帝保佑你。
Good-bye." I close my act with that.
再见。”我以此结束我的表演。
He was friends with so many presidents, it was like being friends with Bob Hope came with the job.
他与很多总统都是朋友，就像与鲍勃·霍普成为朋友一样，他的工作也随之而来。
He played golf with Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, George Bush senior.
他与艾森豪威尔、尼克松、福特、老布什一起打高尔夫球。
President Kennedy had him over to the White House to discuss jokes.
肯尼迪总统邀请他去白宫讨论笑话。
LBJ presented him with a Medal of Freedom.
林登·约翰逊授予他自由勋章。
Friends since the '40s, he and Ronald Reagan had an annual tradition of celebrating New Year's at Walter Annenberg's in Palm Springs.
他和罗纳德·里根自 40 年代起就是朋友，每年都有在棕榈泉的沃尔特·安纳伯格家庆祝新年的传统。
Right around the time we met, the Iran-Contra scandal was just beginning to break, and Hope was struggling with how he was going to address the topic of the day without hurting his old pal's feelings.
就在我们见面的时候，伊朗门丑闻刚刚开始爆发，霍普正在努力思考如何在不伤害他老朋友感情的情况下谈论当天的话题。
At one point, he did his Iran-Contra bit for me.
有一次，他为我做了伊朗门的一件事。
I said, "I don't know whether I want to go back to the States because I hate it when our foreign policy is funnier than I am." "And Congress is really upset because, you know, they get mad when people screw things up, and they don't have anything to do with it." I said, "I don't know who the White House aides were.
我说：“我不知道我是否想回到美国，因为我讨厌我们的外交政策比我更有趣。” “国会真的很沮丧，因为，你知道，当人们把事情搞砸时，他们会生气，而他们与此无关。”我说：“我不知道白宫助手是谁。
It was either Curly, Larry or Moe." "And I can't understand selling arms to Iran," I said.
要么是科利，要么是拉里，要么是莫伊。” “我无法理解向伊朗出售武器，”我说。
"That's like Johnny Carson giving jokes to Joan Rivers."
“这就像约翰尼·卡森给琼·里弗斯开玩笑一样。”
Well, that doesn't hurt anybody.
嗯，这不会伤害任何人。
And it's all front page.
而且都是头版。
So you have to go that way.
所以你必须走那条路。
That's the way I go.
我就是这样走的。
Hope has always been identified more with the right than the left.
人们总是更多地将希望视为右翼而不是左翼。
It was Republicans, never Democrats, who invited him to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom.
邀请他睡在林肯卧室的是共和党人，而不是民主党人。
But on that day, when I brought up politics, he classified himself as nonpartisan.
但那天，当我提到政治时，他将自己归为无党派人士。
A leaner, I think he called himself, someone who leans in the direction of whomever is currently in power.
我认为他称自己为一个更精简的人，一个倾向于当前掌权者的人。
Whether he was a leaner or not, his image as a fence straddler ended in 1963 with the Vietnam War.
不管他是否瘦了，他作为骑墙者的形象随着 1963 年越南战争的结束而结束。
He was forced to make a political choice, and whichever choice he made, it wasn't going to sit well with the other side.
他被迫做出政治选择，而无论他做出哪种选择，都不会得到对方的同意。
If he decided to go to Vietnam to entertain the troops, he was supporting an unpopular war.
如果他决定去越南招待军队，他就是在支持一场不受欢迎的战争。
But if he decided to stay home, he risked breaking a tradition and disrupting a so-far harmonious relationship with a government who'd help make him an American icon.
但如果他决定留在家里，他就有可能打破传统，并破坏与政府迄今为止的和谐关系，而政府曾帮助他成为美国偶像。
Well, you may remember what he decided.
好吧，你可能还记得他的决定。
From Shemya Island in the Aleutians, from Yokota, Japan, and from Camp Casey, and Osan in Korea--
从阿留申群岛的谢米亚岛、日本横田、韩国凯西营和乌山——
In the end, Hope did nine Christmas tours in Vietnam.
最终，Hope 在越南进行了九次圣诞巡演。
And each of those shows, he taped, produced, and sold to NBC as television specials.
他将每一个节目都录制、制作并作为电视特别节目卖给 NBC。
From Udorn, U-Tapao, and Nam Phong in Thailand, and from Tan Son Nhut Air Base in Vietnam, it's the Bob Hope Christmas special starring Redd Foxx, Lola Falana--
从泰国的乌东、乌塔堡和南风，以及越南的新山一空军基地，这是由雷德·福克斯、洛拉·法拉娜主演的鲍勃·霍普圣诞特辑——
For the first time, he began generating criticism.
他第一次开始受到批评。
Though there were still cheering crowds, there were plenty of times where the men booed Bob Hope and gave him the finger.
尽管仍然有欢呼的人群，但很多时候人们还是向鲍勃·霍普发出嘘声，并向他竖中指。
In an era of Jimi Hendrix and pot smoking, picture long-haired troops without shirts, smoking cigarettes, and drinking beer, being treated to golf jokes, big band music, and a juggler.
在吉米·亨德里克斯和吸大麻的时代，想象一下长发部队不穿衬衫，抽烟，喝啤酒，享受高尔夫笑话、大乐队音乐和杂耍演员的情景。
In 1980, in Rolling Stone magazine, writer Timothy White quoted servicemen who claimed that attendance was mandatory, that they were a captive audience, that the scantily clad showgirls that had so delighted GIs in the past now just seemed like PG-rated strippers to the men, women who they could look at, but couldn't touch.
1980 年，在《滚石》杂志上，作家蒂莫西·怀特 (Timothy White) 引用了军人的话，声称出席是强制性的，他们是被俘虏的观众，过去让美国士兵非常高兴的衣着暴露的歌舞女郎现在对男人和女人来说就像是 PG 级的脱衣舞娘，他们可以看，但不能碰。
Hello.
你好。
I'm Miss Kansas, Cindy Lee Sikes.
我是堪萨斯小姐辛迪·李·赛克斯。
Merry Christmas.
圣诞快乐。
Oh, I'm 18, and I won the swimsuit contest in the Miss America Pageant.
哦，我18岁了，我赢得了美国小姐选美泳装比赛的冠军。
[CHEERS AND WHISTLES] Margy Rochlin In this footage, things don't seem so wholesome anymore.
[欢呼声和口哨声] Margy Rochlin 在这段视频中，事情似乎不再那么健康了。
Each girl is dressed in a spangley leotard, and the men surge forward like they're going to devour them.
每个女孩都穿着亮片紧身衣，男人们向前冲去，好像要把她们吞掉一样。
Hi y'all.
大家好。
I'm Melanie.
我是梅兰妮。
I'm Miss Georgia World.
我是乔治亚世界小姐。
Anybody from Georgia?
有人来自乔治亚州吗？
[CHEERS AND WHISTLES] Melanie Any of y'all like to try a little of our southern comfort?
[欢呼和口哨] 梅兰妮 你们中有人想尝试一下我们南方的舒适吗？
[CHEERS AND WHISTLES] Margy Rochlin Next, two young blondes are on stage with Bob Hope.
[欢呼和口哨] 玛吉·罗克林 接下来，两位年轻的金发女郎和鲍勃·霍普一起登上舞台。
Hi, I'm Tricia Barnstable from Louisville, Kentucky.
大家好，我是来自肯塔基州路易斯维尔的特里西娅·巴恩斯特布尔。
[CHEERS AND WHISTLES] Cyb Barnstable And I'm Cyb Barnstable, her twin sister.
[欢呼和口哨] Cyb Barnstable 我是 Cyb Barnstable，她的双胞胎妹妹。
And we just want to know if there's anybody out there who thinks they can handle two.
我们只是想知道是否有人认为他们可以处理两个。
[CHEERS AND WHISTLES] Margy Rochlin Back home, it almost seemed like Bob Hope was blind to the politics of what he was doing and out of touch.
[欢呼声和口哨声] 玛吉·罗克林 (Margy Rochlin) 回到家后，鲍勃·霍普 (Bob Hope) 似乎对他所做的事情的政治视而不见，并且脱节了。
There's an incredible quote from Marlon Brando from an interview in Playboy magazine.
马龙·白兰度在《花花公子》杂志的采访中引用了一句令人难以置信的话。
Brando called Hope "an applause junky." He said, "Bob Hope will go to the opening of a phone booth in a gas station in Anaheim provided they have a camera and three people there.
白兰度称霍普为“掌声狂”。他说：“鲍勃·霍普将前往阿纳海姆一家加油站的电话亭开业，前提是他们有一台相机和三个人。
He'll go the opening of a market and receive an award." Brando said, "It didn't bother him at all to work the Vietnam War.
他会去开拓市场并获得奖励。”白兰度说，“参加越南战争对他来说一点也不困扰。
Oh, he took that in his stride.
哦，他泰然处之。
He did his World War Two and Korean War act-- our boys, and all that.
他表演了第二次世界大战和朝鲜战争的表演——我们的孩子们，等等。
He's a pathetic guy."
他是一个可悲的人。”
The criticism after Vietnam truly stunned Bob Hope.
越战后的批评确实让鲍勃·霍普感到震惊。
For years, he was seen as a good ambassador, agendaless, flying around the world representing our country.
多年来，他被视为一位优秀的大使，没有议程，代表我们的国家飞往世界各地。
He hadn't changed anything, but somehow, he'd become a bane to the anti-war movement, a militarist, controversial.
他没有改变任何事情，但不知何故，他成了反战运动的祸根，一个军国主义者，一个有争议的人。
It didn't make any sense to him.
这对他来说没有任何意义。
We weren't carrying bullets.
我们没有携带子弹。
We were carrying laughs.
我们带着笑声。
And I wasn't the only one going.
而且我不是唯一一个去的人。
Everybody went to Vietnam, Jimmy Stewart and his wife, Roy Rogers, John Wayne, Charlton Heston, Johnny Grant.
每个人都去了越南，吉米·斯图尔特和他的妻子，罗伊·罗杰斯，约翰·韦恩，查尔顿·赫斯顿，约翰尼·格兰特。
But on account of me getting all the television coverage and doing that show, they all got the feeling, they said, "Hey, he's doing this show, that's a commercial show," and so on and so on and so on.
但由于我得到了所有的电视报道并做了那个节目，他们都有了这种感觉，他们说，“嘿，他正在做这个节目，那是一个商业节目，”等等等等。
And anybody that would deny those kids the right to have a show like we brought them, well, you felt kind of sorry for those people.
任何人如果否认这些孩子有权利观看我们为他们带来的演出，那么，你会为这些人感到遗憾。
Because they couldn't have been very patriotic.
因为他们不可能非常爱国。
I had a couple of people that called me a warmonger.
有几个人称我为战争贩子。
And I gave it to the FBI and the sheriff here.
我把它交给了联邦调查局和这里的治安官。
And they found these guys over in Santa Monica Boulevard, and they chased them out of the town.
他们在圣莫尼卡大道找到了这些家伙，并将他们赶出了城镇。
Who were the people?
这些人是谁？
Bob Hope They were some bums that were probably guys that were defectors or something.
鲍勃·霍普（Bob Hope）：他们是一些流浪汉，可能是叛逃者之类的。
A kid walked up to me out here in Van Nuys-- I was in an ice cream store-- went out to my car.
在范奈斯，一个孩子向我走来——当时我在一家冰淇淋店——然后走向我的车。
And a kid walked up to the car and said, "Hey, is it true that you took guns to Vietnam?" I said, "Where'd you hear that?" He said, "Oh, I read that somewhere." And I said, "Let me tell you something, son." I said, "I took laughs to Vietnam." I said, "Did you ever see my show?"
一个孩子走到车前说道：“嘿，你真的带枪去了越南吗？”我说：“你从哪里听说的？”他说：“哦，我在哪里读到过。”我说：“让我告诉你一件事，儿子。”我说：“我把笑带到了越南。”我说：“你看过我的表演吗？”
He might have known that the politics of war would lead him down this road eventually.
他可能知道战争政治最终会引导他走上这条路。
No one could deny that in his career with the USO, Bob Hope faced hardships and acted out of a sense of altruism and patriotism.
没有人可以否认，鲍勃·霍普在 USO 的职业生涯中遇到了困难，并表现出了利他主义和爱国主义精神。
But it's also clear that there was another side to it all.
但同样清楚的是，这一切还有另一面。
He'd figured out a way to use international conflict as a marketing tool for his reputation and career.
他找到了一种方法，利用国际冲突作为他的声誉和职业生涯的营销工具。
And there's nothing wrong with that.
这并没有什么问题。
It just seems wrong to cry foul when people stop laughing.
当人们不再笑时，大喊大叫似乎是错误的。
Margy Rochlin in Los Angeles.
玛吉·罗克林在洛杉矶。
Credits Ira Glass This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
图片来源：Ira Glass 《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia who has this message for his rebel troops.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 负责监督，他向他的叛军部队传达了这一信息。
Our house has seven doors.
我们的房子有七扇门。
All are green except one.
除了一个之外，所有的都是绿色的。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。