197: Before It Had A Name - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #197 | January 17, 2003 197: Before It Had A Name Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 197 集 | 2003 年 1 月 17 日 197：在它有名字之前 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Rod Hudson grew up on a dairy farm in New Hampshire and worked the farm from the time he was big enough to help out, six, seven years old.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯·罗德·哈德森 (Ira Glass Rod Hudson) 在新罕布什尔州的一个奶牛场长大，从六七岁大到可以帮忙的时候就开始在农场工作。
When his father retired, Rod ran his own operation on his dad's property and did just fine until the mid 1980's when something strange started to happen with the cows.
当他的父亲退休后，罗德在他父亲的财产上经营自己的生意，一直经营得很好，直到 1980 年代中期，奶牛身上开始发生了一些奇怪的事情。
A series of strange things started to happen actually, beginning with their hooves...
一系列奇怪的事情实际上开始发生，从他们的蹄子开始……
That was the first thing.
这是第一件事。
Cow's feet don't normally have to be trimmed only about once a year, possibly twice.
牛脚通常不需要每年只修剪一次，可能需要两次。
And I was having to trim them three and four times a year.
我每年必须修剪它们三到四次。
Right.
正确的。
If they get sore feet, they don't walk around like they should.
如果他们脚痛，他们就不能像应有的那样四处走动。
They won't go and eat like they should.
他们不会像他们应该的那样去吃饭。
Do they give as much milk?
他们提供同样多的牛奶吗？
Rod Hudson No, no. The production was low all the time.
罗德·哈德森 不，不。产量一直很低。
A healthy cow would give Rod 75 90 pounds of milk a day.
一头健康的奶牛每天可以为 Rod 75 提供 90 磅牛奶。
These cows were averaging 40 at best.
这些奶牛平均最多有 40 头。
It was hard to even cover expenses.
连开支都很难。
The cows developed other problems.
奶牛还出现了其他问题。
They had trouble conceiving.
他们很难受孕。
They started losing weight.
他们开始减肥。
They began to get sick.
他们开始生病。
Oh, I'd have a veterinarian in about every six weeks or something like that.
哦，我大约每六周或类似的时间就会去看一次兽医。
Was that pretty expensive?
那是不是很贵？
Rod Hudson It's very expensive.
罗德·哈德森 这是非常昂贵的。
You could spend $100 per cow pretty quick.
每头牛很快就能花掉 100 美元。
And all I'd get out of them is they didn't know what was the matter with them.
我从他们那里得到的只是他们不知道自己出了什么问题。
They tried medicines.
他们尝试了药物。
They changed the cow's feed.
他们改变了奶牛的饲料。
They'd change it again.
他们会再次改变它。
They replaced the cows with new cows.
他们用新的奶牛替换了奶牛。
And this went on, month after month, year after year, for a decade and a half.
这样的情况持续了十五年，月复一月，年复一年。
And Rod was not a novice.
而且罗德也不是新手。
He was an experienced dairy farmer who'd been through a lot, nearly 50 years old when the troubles began.
他是一位经验丰富的奶农，经历了很多事情，麻烦开始时已经快50岁了。
He tried this.
他尝试了这个。
He tried that, all the time watching himself slowly go broke.
他尝试了这一点，却一直看着自己慢慢破产。
Well, just nobody had any answers.
好吧，只是没有人有任何答案。
They'd make suggestions, and we'd try to do what was suggested to us.
他们会提出建议，我们会尽力按照建议去做。
And nothing seemed to work for us at all.
似乎没有什么对我们有用。
It just must have made you feel so crazy.
它肯定让你感到如此疯狂。
Well, I blamed it onto myself as much as anything.
好吧，我把这一切都归咎于自己。
I tried to accept the fact that I wasn't doing something right.
我试图接受我没有做正确事情的事实。
And as they, no matter what I did, it didn't work.
和他们一样，无论我做什么，都没有效果。
The first time I talked to Rod a few months back, someone that I'm close to was having all sorts of medical problems and going through tests, and CAT scans, and spinal taps, and more CAT scans.
几个月前，我第一次与罗德交谈时，我认识的一个人患有各种健康问题，正在接受检查、CAT 扫描、脊椎穿刺和更多 CAT 扫描。
And the doctors couldn't figure out what was causing the problems.
医生也无法找出导致问题的原因。
And in the absence of information, she did what Rod did.
在缺乏信息的情况下，她做了罗德所做的事情。
She blamed yourself.
她责怪自己。
And I think this happens a lot.
我认为这种情况经常发生。
I think that when you have nothing to go on, you fill the vacuum with anything that you have at hand, with any superstitions that you can think of, with everything that you think you could have done wrong.
我认为，当你无事可做时，你就会用你手边的任何东西、你能想到的任何迷信、你认为你可能做错的一切来填补真空。
Before something has a name, it could be anything.
在某物有名字之前，它可以是任何东西。
And that period before you know the truth, that period is often worse than the truth that you find out.
而在你知道真相之前的那段时期，往往比你发现的真相还要糟糕。
Today on our program, we bring you stories about that eerie, unsettling period before something has a name, and stories about how things change once things do have a name.
今天，在我们的节目中，我们为您带来一些关于某物有名字之前那段令人毛骨悚然、令人不安的时期的故事，以及关于某物有了名字后事物如何变化的故事。
In Rod's case, it turned out that high voltage power lines that crossed his property were leaking current into the ground.
在罗德的案例中，事实证明，穿过他的房产的高压电线正在向地面泄漏电流。
When it was wet outside, moisture would carry the electricity-- not much electricity, just 35 watts or so, enough for a vibration sort of feeling-- through the ground, and into the barn and up into the cows drinking trough.
当外面潮湿时，湿气会携带电力——电力不多，只有 35 瓦左右，足以产生一种振动的感觉——穿过地面，进入谷仓，再进入奶牛的饮水槽。
The cow was standing there with bare feet in a wet spot.
那头牛光着脚站在湿漉漉的地方。
Then they go to drink the water, and because this electricity was getting into the water, why they'd get a shock as they were drinking.
然后他们去喝水，因为电流进入了水中，所以他们在喝水的时候会被电击。
And would that do?
那行吗？
Rod Hudson Well, instead of putting their head down into the water and drinking it, they were just lapping at it like a dog laps water.
罗德·哈德森（Rod Hudson）好吧，他们没有把头埋进水里喝水，而是像狗舔水一样舔水。
And they just wouldn't take in that much.
他们只是不会接受那么多。
They were afraid they were going to get a shock when they'd go to drink.
他们担心去喝酒时会受到惊吓。
The cows were dehydrated, getting only about a third of the water they were supposed to get.
奶牛脱水了，只得到了应得水量的三分之一左右。
And that explained all of their other problems.
这解释了他们所有其他问题。
After nearly 15 years of uncertainty, it was a relief to finally know the answer.
经过近 15 年的不确定性之后，终于知道答案令人松了口气。
But Rod Hudson was so heavily in debt, there was no way to recoup fast enough, and he lost the farm.
但罗德·哈德森负债累累，无法足够快地收回成本，因此他失去了农场。
At 65, he now has a new job.
65岁的他现在有了一份新工作。
At the present time, I'm driving for Thomas Transportation out of Keene.
目前，我正在为托马斯运输公司开车，从基恩出发。
That's an airport shuttle service.
这是机场接送服务。
And I'm putting in somewhere around 50 to 60 hours a week.
我每周花大约 50 到 60 个小时。
Starting around when?
大约什么时候开始？
Rod Hudson Generally, it's around 3:00 or half past.
Rod Hudson 一般来说，时间是 3:00 或 3:00 左右。
So even earlier than you would have to get up to milk cows?
所以甚至比你还要早去挤奶？
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Rod Hudson Yeah, because that's about the time that I normally god up.
Rod Hudson 是的，因为那是我通常起床的时间。
I really do.
我真的这么做。
Ira Glass Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
Ira Glass 好吧，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, Before It Had a Name.
今天我们的节目《在它有名字之前》。
Our program in four acts today.
我们今天的节目有四幕。
Act One, Mr. Boder Vanishes.
第一幕，博德先生消失。
In that act, the very first recordings of Holocaust survivors made just after the war before the Holocaust was even called the Holocaust, and very different from other Holocaust survivor interviews because of that.
在那一幕中，战后大屠杀之前录制的第一批大屠杀幸存者的录音甚至被称为“大屠杀”，因此与其他大屠杀幸存者采访非常不同。
Forgotten for decades, never before broadcast, those tapes here today on our program.
这些磁带被遗忘了几十年，在播出之前从未出现过，今天在我们的节目中。
And the story of the man who collected them.
以及收集它们的人的故事。
Act Two, Of Course I Remember Your Name.
第二幕，我当然记得你的名字。
In that act, the difference between those we know and those whose names we now.
在那一幕中，我们认识的人和我们现在知道名字的人之间的区别。
Act Three, A Bad Day For Plates, the story of four kids who that their mother was just mean.
第三幕，盘子的糟糕一天，四个孩子的故事，他们认为他们的母亲很刻薄。
And then, they found out that there was a different name for it completely, rewriting everything they ever knew about her.
然后，他们发现它有一个完全不同的名字，重写了他们所知道的关于她的一切。
Act Four, You Call That Love?
第四幕，你管这叫爱情吗？
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Mr. Boder vanishes.
第一幕，博德先生消失了。
This is the story of a man named David Boder, who started to investigate the Holocaust before it was known as the Holocaust.
这是一个名叫大卫·博德的人的故事，他在大屠杀被称为“大屠杀”之前就开始调查它。
And because of that, his research was different, and treated differently by the world, than investigations done later.
正因为如此，他的研究与后来所做的调查不同，并且受到世界的不同对待。
Carl Marziali tells the story.
卡尔·马尔齐亚利讲述了这个故事。
In 1946, David Boder went to Europe to interview survivors of Nazi concentration camps, specifically to record their stories in their own voices.
1946年，大卫·博德前往欧洲采访纳粹集中营的幸存者，特意用他们自己的声音记录他们的故事。
At the time, this was a new idea, so new he was the only one who went.
在当时，这是一个新想法，如此新奇，他是唯一一个去的人。
What he got were the first oral histories of Holocaust survivors before it was even called the Holocaust.
他得到的是大屠杀幸存者的第一批口述历史，甚至在大屠杀被称为大屠杀之前。
Even if you've heard other survivor accounts, there's something different about these interviews.
即使您听过其他幸存者的叙述，这些采访也有一些不同之处。
Over and over, people refer to names that have since taken on a bigger significance, but without knowing the bigger significance.
人们一遍又一遍地引用那些从此具有更重要意义的名字，但却不知道其更重要的意义。
George Caldor, a survivor from Hungary, tells Boder that when he first arrived at the camp, he walked past a gate with the words, "Work Sets Man Free," and met an SS chief physician whose name Boder didn't recognize and misspelled on the transcript as Wengele.
来自匈牙利的幸存者乔治·卡尔多 (George Caldor) 告诉博德，当他第一次到达集中营时，他走过一扇写着“工作使人自由”的大门，并遇到了一名党卫军首席医生，博德不认识他的名字，并在成绩单上将其拼写为温格勒 (Wengele)。
Boder typed question marks next to the name.
博德在名字旁边输入了问号。
When a French woman named Nellie Bandy mentions the camp she was sent to, it's not enough for her to say the names Birkenau and Auschwitz for Boder to know what she's talking about.
当一位名叫内莉·班迪（Nellie Bandy）的法国妇女提到她被送往的集中营时，她仅仅说出比克瑙（Birkenau）和奥斯维辛（Auschwitz）这两个名字是不够的，让博德（Boder）知道她在说什么。
Where is that?
哪里是？
Nellie Birkenau is some kilometers from Auschwitz.
内莉·比克瑙距离奥斯威辛集中营有几公里。
And Auschwitz is where?
而奥斯威辛集中营在哪里？
Nellie In East Upper Silesia.
内莉在上西里西亚东部。
She tells Boder about the march from Auschwitz to Birkenau, and on the way the guards shot the stragglers, a familiar scene to anyone who's seen a movie or read a book about the Holocaust, but surprising and new to Boder.
她向博德讲述了从奥斯维辛集中营到比克瑙的行军过程，在路上，警卫射杀了掉队的人，对于任何看过有关大屠杀的电影或读过有关大屠杀的书籍的人来说，这是一个熟悉的场景，但对博德来说却令人惊讶和陌生。
What were they, shooting them like sentenced people, putting them to the wall?
他们是什么人，像被判刑的人一样射杀他们，然后把他们扔到墙上？
Oh no [INAUDIBLE] Carl Marziali Oh no, she's saying.
哦，不，[听不清] Carl Marziali 哦，不，她说。
She fell down somewhere and he just shot at her.
她跌倒在某个地方，他就向她开枪。
That was all.
仅此而已。
All the route was bordered with corpses, you see.
你看，所有的路线都被尸体包围了。
All the route was bordered with corpses, you see?
所有的路线都被尸体包围了，你看到了吗？
And whose corpses were that?
那是谁的尸体？
Nellie Well, there were men who had been led before us and had been shot like that.
内莉 好吧，有些人在我们之前被带去，然后就这样被枪杀了。
There were men who had been before us and had been shot like that.
有些人在我们之前就被这样枪杀了。
Maybe it's a kind of dramatic irony, the ratio of our own awareness to the speaker's lack of it.
也许这是一种戏剧性的讽刺，我们自己的意识与说话者缺乏意识的比率。
Maybe it's the way people talk when they barely know what's happened to them, before analysis and judgment show up to put everything in its place.
也许这就是人们在分析和判断出现之前，几乎不知道自己发生了什么事时的说话方式。
The people in the camps had been cut off from almost all news reports for years, so all they can talk about is what happened to them.
多年来，难民营里的人们几乎与所有新闻报道隔绝，所以他们只能谈论发生在自己身上的事情。
They have no bigger picture.
他们没有更大的愿景。
When Nellie Bandy tires to get refuge with the US Army after the German surrender, she goes to a checkpoint and talks to an American guard.
德国投降后，内莉·班迪 (Nellie Bandy) 厌倦了向美军寻求庇护，她前往一个检查站并与一名美国警卫交谈。
I came to see them, and I spoke English.
我来看他们，我说英语。
And asked them if I could get over.
并问他们我是否可以克服。
"Well who are you?"
“那你是谁？”
When the guard asks here who she is, she can't just say, a Holocaust survivor.
当警卫问她是谁时，她不能只说是大屠杀幸存者。
The idea doesn't exist for her or the guard.
对于她或警卫来说，这个想法不存在。
So instead, she makes up a term for herself.
因此，她为自己编造了一个术语。
I'm a French political prisoner, she says.
“我是一名法国政治犯，”她说。
The guard says he doesn't have any instructions for political prisoners and goes to ask his captain.
警卫说他没有任何针对政治犯的指示，于是去问他的队长。
The captain comes back and tells her, "I'm extremely sorry, but so far I haven't got any instructions for political prisoners, just for prisoners of war.
上尉回来告诉她：“我非常抱歉，但到目前为止我还没有收到任何针对政治犯的指示，只有针对战俘的指示。
And turns her away.
并把她拒之门外。
[INAUDIBLE] Carl Marziali Often in the recordings, you get the sense of two worlds meeting for the first time and trying to figure each other.
[听不清] Carl Marziali 通常在录音中，你会感觉到两个世界第一次相遇并试图理解对方。
The survivors and the people they come across just to speak the same language.
幸存者和他们遇到的人只是为了说同一种语言。
This is very different from later interviews with survivors after a common language had developed.
这与后来发展出共同语言后对幸存者的采访有很大不同。
So they had to go on the so-called death march.
于是他们不得不踏上所谓的死亡行军。
You had to keep out because if you fell down, they shot you.
你必须远离，因为如果你摔倒了，他们就会开枪射杀你。
These are interviews of survivors made after 1988 and released in a boxed set called Voices Of The Shoa.
这些是 1988 年之后对幸存者的采访，并以名为《绍阿之声》的盒装形式发行。
This one describes the same experience Nellie Bandy had, but now it has a name, the death march.
这本书描述了内莉·班迪（Nellie Bandy）的相同经历，但现在它有了一个名字：死亡行军。
We had to march.
我们不得不游行。
So my sister is older.
所以我姐姐年纪大了。
She gave me her shoes.
她把她的鞋子给了我。
It was January, 1945.
那是 1945 年 1 月。
I was so slippery.
我太滑了。
I was cold.
我很冷。
No food, nothing, that if you slipped, you couldn't get up.
没有食物，什么都没有，如果你滑倒了，你就无法站起来。
There was no way in heaven you could get up.
在天堂里你没有办法站起来。
At the beginning, they shot you right on the spot, but after a while, why waste a bullet?
一开始他们就当场开枪，但过了一段时间，为什么要浪费子弹呢？
Let them freeze to death.
让他们冻死吧。
That's why they called it the death march.
这就是为什么他们称之为死亡行军。
[INAUDIBLE] David Boder And whose corpses do you think they were?
[听不清] David Boder 你认为它们是谁的尸体？
Boder recorded 109 interviews over two months.
Boder 在两个月内记录了 109 次采访。
He cut an unlikely figure, an older man in goatee and glasses, wearing a blazer and tie in the middle of summer, burdened by 60 pounds of primitive recording equipment and a bad heart.
他的形象令人难以置信，是一位留着山羊胡、戴着眼镜的老人，在盛夏穿着西装外套，系着领带，背负着 60 磅的简陋录音设备，而且心脏不好。
Because he did this work before the Holocaust had a name, and everything that comes with a name, recognition, context, a common language, he had trouble getting funded.
因为他在大屠杀有名字之前就完成了这项工作，而一切都伴随着名字、认可、背景、共同语言，所以他很难获得资助。
His work was never truly completed.
他的工作从未真正完成。
His tapes were lost for decades, and he died in obscurity.
他的录音带丢失了数十年，他也默默无闻地去世了。
Well, from Buchenwald we went to Auschwitz.
嗯，从布痕瓦尔德集中营我们去了奥斯威辛。
Yes, and from Auschwitz?
是的，来自奥斯威辛？
Survivor 3 And from Auschwitz, we went to a little station [INAUDIBLE]
幸存者 3 从奥斯威辛集中营出发，我们去了一个小车站 [听不清]
I first came across Boder's name in 1988.
我第一次听到 Boder 的名字是在 1988 年。
I was on a freelance assignment at the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago when a professor I knew showed me a copy of a campus magazine from 1947.
当时我正在芝加哥伊利诺伊理工学院从事自由职业，当时我认识的一位教授给我看了一本 1947 年的校园杂志。
He'd found it in somebody's attic, started flipping through it, and on page 18, found an article by David P.
他在某人的阁楼里发现了它，开始翻阅它，并在第 18 页找到了 David P.
Boder, a psychology professor at IIT.
博德是印度理工学院的心理学教授。
Boder's article was about his recent expedition to Europe, and it struck me as odd for a couple of reasons.
博德的文章是关于他最近的欧洲探险的，出于几个原因，它让我感到奇怪。
I'd never heard of Boder, even though, as it turns out, he was the first person ever to record Holocaust victims.
我从未听说过博德，尽管事实证明他是第一个记录大屠杀受害者的人。
And the tone was odd.
而且语气很奇怪。
His writing was clear, informative and totally devoid of personal content.
他的写作清晰、信息丰富，完全没有个人内容。
It seemed strange that a Jewish man who had come face to face with the attempted extinction of his people would title his article, "The Displaced People of Europe, Preliminary Notes on a Psychological and Anthropological Study."
一个曾经面临过自己民族的灭绝企图的犹太男子将他的文章命名为“欧洲流离失所的人民，心理和人类学研究的初步笔记”，这似乎很奇怪。
I decided to find out what I could about David Boder.
我决定尽可能地了解一下大卫·博德的情况。
In the 1930's and '40's, he was a minor public figure, the kind of professor who knew how to get his name in print.
在 1930 年代和 40 年代，他是一个小公众人物，是那种知道如何让自己的名字登上印刷品的教授。
He showed up in Time magazine with some invention called "the adjective verb quotient." He made the papers with his analysis of children's letters to Santa Claus, and with an experiment where he wired his students with sensors and charted their reactions to scary movies.
他出现在《时代》杂志上，并带来了一项名为“形容词动词商数”的发明。他通过分析儿童写给圣诞老人的信来发表论文，并进行了一项实验，在实验中他给学生安装了传感器，并绘制了他们对恐怖电影的反应。
But at some point in the mid '40's, his research shifted focus and took on an urgent tone.
但在 40 年代中期的某个时刻，他的研究焦点发生了转变，并呈现出紧迫的基调。
By 1945, he was trying to get a visa for Europe and furiously writing grant proposals to fund a project there.
1945 年，他正试图获得前往欧洲的签证，并疯狂地撰写拨款提案来资助那里的一个项目。
There were newsreel and newspaper accounts of what had happened in the camps, but Boder was proposing to interview survivors in their own languages-- he spoke at least seven himself-- and in their own words.
新闻片和报纸报道了难民营中发生的事情，但博德提议用幸存者自己的语言（他自己至少会说七种语言）和他们自己的话来采访他们。
Boder got rejection letters from a who's who of postwar philanthropy, the American Jewish Conference, the Guggenheim Foundation, the B'nai B'rith, the federal government.
博德收到了来自战后慈善界名人、美国犹太会议、古根海姆基金会、B'nai B'rith 和联邦政府的拒绝信。
He kept going, and it wasn't clear to me what was driving him.
他继续前进，我不清楚是什么在驱使他。
It seemed to be more than scholarly interest.
这似乎不仅仅是学术兴趣。
But among the grant applications, newspaper clippings, boxes and boxes of archival papers, there was not a single personal artifact, no reflections, no memoirs, not one personal note in his travel diary.
但在拨款申请、剪报、一箱又一箱的档案文件中，没有一件个人物品，没有反思，没有回忆录，没有他旅行日记中的任何个人笔记。
Boder died 40 years ago, and his only daughter, Elena, died childless in 1995.
博德于 40 年前去世，他唯一的女儿埃琳娜 (Elena) 于 1995 年去世，没有留下孩子。
To learn more, actually to learn anything about Boder's private self, I turned to Sylvia Jericho, a lifelong family friend and a colleague of Boder's daughter Elena.
为了了解更多信息，实际上是为了了解有关博德私人自我的任何信息，我向西尔维娅·杰里科求助，她是博德一生的朋友，也是博德女儿埃琳娜的同事。
According to Sylvia, Boder in person was a lot like Boder in print.
据西尔维娅说，博德本人很像印刷品中的博德。
He'd go on at great length about psychology or the works of Chekhov.
他会长篇大论地谈论心理学或契诃夫的作品。
But I don't remember his ever talking about himself in the world.
但我不记得他曾经在这个世界上谈论过他自己。
Why do you think that was?
你认为那是为什么？
Sylvia Jericho Well, I think it reflects tragedy in his life, and that he had abandoned his early life.
西尔维娅·杰里科（Sylvia Jericho）嗯，我认为这反映了他一生中的悲剧，他放弃了早年的生活。
And I think there was a schism between him and his early life.
我认为他和他的早年生活之间存在分歧。
Here are some parts of his early life that Boder might have been trying to abandon.
以下是博德可能试图放弃的早年生活的一些部分。
He had married in Russian when he was 20 years old and divorced two years later.
他20岁时在俄罗斯结婚，两年后离婚。
I talked to the family historian in Israel, who says that Boder converted to Christianity to get ahead, and that this was the reason his wife left him.
我与以色列的家庭历史学家交谈过，他说博德皈依基督教是为了出人头地，这就是他妻子离开他的原因。
Boder fled Russia in 1919 after the Bolshevik Revolution, taking his daughter Elena with him.
1919 年布尔什维克革命后，博德尔带着女儿埃琳娜逃离了俄罗斯。
Some in his wife's family accuse him of abducting Elena, of taking her without the mother's consent.
他妻子的家人指责他绑架了埃琳娜，未经母亲同意就带走了她。
He also changed his name, so by the time he arrived in Chicago, was no longer David or Pavel Michelson, Latvian Jew, but Dr. David Pablo Boder, scholar without frontiers.
他还改了名字，所以当他到达芝加哥时，他不再是拉脱维亚犹太人大卫或帕维尔·迈克尔逊，而是无国界学者大卫·巴勃罗·博德博士。
Meanwhile, his wife stayed in Latvia, held onto her name and identity and was executed in a ghetto in 1941, just before Boder appeared in Time magazine for his study of adjectives and verbs.
与此同时，他的妻子留在拉脱维亚，保留了自己的名字和身份，并于 1941 年在贫民窟被处决，就在博德因研究形容词和动词而出现在《时代》杂志上之前。
It's hard to resist the pattern that having betrayed-- that in part, his study of the people of the Holocaust and his determination to get there, and to catch the stories in there purist telling.
很难抗拒这种模式的背叛——在某种程度上，他对大屠杀中的人们的研究，以及他到达那里的决心，并捕捉那里纯粹主义讲述的故事。
It's hard to resist the interpretation that in part, this atoned for the freedom from that kind of torment that he achieved by simply leaving.
很难抗拒这样的解释：这在一定程度上弥补了他因离开而摆脱那种折磨的自由。
[INAUDIBLE] David Boder [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
[听不清] David Boder [说外语]
On July 29, 1946, Boder finally made it to Europe.
1946 年 7 月 29 日，博德终于抵达欧洲。
In the end, after more than a year of writing grant proposals, he went without official funding.
最终，在撰写了一年多的资助提案后，他没有得到官方资助。
He had money from his daughter, donations from a few assumptions and a loan from his life insurance.
他从女儿那里得到了钱，从一些假设中得到了捐款，并从他的人寿保险中获得了一笔贷款。
I should point out again just how uninterested the rest of the world was in Boder's idea.
我应该再次指出，世界其他地方对博德的想法是多么不感兴趣。
The project was a one man effort from start to finish.
该项目从开始到结束都是一个人的努力。
He worked without translators and operated the equipment on his own, often pausing to untangle wire that bunched up like fishing line.
他在没有翻译的情况下工作，自己操作设备，经常停下来解开像鱼线一样扎成一团的电线。
He would show up in a safe house, a refugee camp, ask for volunteers, find a quiet corner and begin his questions.
他会出现在安全屋、难民营中，寻找志愿者，找到一个安静的角落，然后开始提问。
Munich, Germany, September 20, 1946.
1946 年 9 月 20 日，德国慕尼黑。
The spool is at nine minutes.
线轴在九分钟。
The interview is [?
采访是[?
Mr. Jurgen Bassfruend 22 years old.
Jurgen Bassfruend 先生 22 岁。
[SPEAKING GERMAN]
[说德语]
[SPEAKING GERMAN] Carl Marziali Jurgen Bassfreund now goes by Jack Bass.
[德语] Carl Marziali Jurgen Bassfreund 现在改名为 Jack Bass。
He lives in Birmingham, Alabama where I went to talk to him about the old professor he met while waiting to leave Europe.
他住在阿拉巴马州的伯明翰，我在那里和他谈论了他在等待离开欧洲时遇到的一位老教授。
I remember that a lady from Nuremberg.
我记得是一位来自纽伦堡的女士。
She was old.
她已经老了。
She certainly wouldn't be alive today anymore.
今天她肯定已经活不下去了。
She told me about Dr. Boder.
她告诉我关于博德博士的事。
I went in there because he wants to he hear stories.
我进去是因为他想听故事。
And I think that I looked for him.
我想我正在寻找他。
I mean I knew where he was, and that I introduced myself.
我的意思是我知道他在哪里，并且我做了自我介绍。
And that's how the interview took place.
采访就是这样进行的。
Were you facing him?
你面对的是他吗？
Jack Bass I think that we sat across a table from each other.
杰克·巴斯 我想我们坐在一张桌子对面。
And the recorder was on the table, I believe.
我相信录音机就在桌子上。
I remember it was a red, [?
我记得是红色的，[？
Webcoa ?] wire recorder.
Webcoa？] 录音机。
And of course it was some kind of a miracle in those days because that you could actually have a tape, a wire that would record your words was something that I hadn't seen before.
当然，这在当时是一个奇迹，因为你实际上可以拥有一盘磁带，一根电线来记录你的话语，这是我以前从未见过的。
You would think that a researcher talking to refugees after the war, a psychologist of all people, would show the appropriate sensitivity.
你可能会认为，一名研究人员在战后与难民交谈，一名所有人的心理学家，会表现出适当的敏感性。
But that's not exactly the way things went.
但事情的发展却并非如此。
One survivor was so upset by Boder's aloofness that she still refuses to have her interview published.
一名幸存者对博德的冷漠感到非常不安，以至于她仍然拒绝发表她的采访。
And as Bass remembers, Boder might as well have been asking directions.
巴斯记得，博德也可能是在问路。
I still see him interviewing me, and he was stern.
我仍然看到他采访我，他很严肃。
He looked at me, and he had a very serious expression on his face.
他看着我，脸上的表情非常严肃。
And he would say to me, "And what happened after you left Auschwitz?
他会对我说：“你离开奥斯维辛集中营后发生了什么？
And where did you end up after Auschwitz?
奥斯威辛集中营之后你去了哪里？
And where did you go?
你去了哪里？
And what did you have to eat?" He was a thorough interviewer, but he was very stern.
那你要吃什么？”他是一个彻底的采访者，但他非常严厉。
And then they cut our hair with a razor.
然后他们用剃刀给我们剪头发。
[INAUDIBLE] shaved.
[听不清] 剃光了。
David Boder Tell me, who did the shearing?
大卫·博德 告诉我，谁剪羊毛了？
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] David Boder Men or women?
[无法理解] David Boder 男人还是女人？
Women.
女性。
David Boder Your hair from the head?
大卫·博德 你头上的头发？
Everything.
一切。
David Boder Your whole body?
大卫·博德 你的整个身体？
Yes, the whole body.
是的，全身。
David Boder [UNINTELLIGIBLE] Why did they do that?
大卫·博德 [无法理解]他们为什么这么做？
I can't tell you.
我不能告诉你。
Jack Bass It was a formal, I think, somewhat like a teacher at a final exam.
杰克·巴斯（Jack Bass） 我认为这是一场正式的考试，有点像期末考试中的老师。
You can't look left or right.
你不能向左或向右看。
You just look at him and make sure that you don't look at anything else.
你只是看着他，并确保你没有看其他任何东西。
But I was used to ti because in Europe, all the teachers are like that.
但我已经习惯了，因为在欧洲，所有的老师都是这样。
In his two months in Europe, Boder went from a passing acquaintance with Nazi atrocities to knowing probably as much as anyone alive.
在欧洲的两个月里，博德从对纳粹暴行的短暂了解，变成了对纳粹暴行的了解可能和活着的人一样多。
But it wasn't until the very end that cracks appeared in his customary reserve.
但直到最后，他一贯的矜持才出现了裂痕。
So Hara Bass is the head librarian at the Illinois Institute of Technology and currently running a project to restore and archive Boder's work.
哈拉·巴斯 (Hara Bass) 是伊利诺伊理工学院的馆长，目前正在运行一个项目来恢复和存档博德的作品。
She remembers the moment in the tapes when she heard the change, an interview in Yiddish with a Polish woman named Anna Kavitska.
她还记得录音带中听到这一变化的那一刻，当时她用意第绪语接受了一位名叫安娜·卡维茨卡(Anna Kavitska)的波兰妇女的采访。
It was the less interview he interviewed.
这是他接受采访的次数较少的一次。
And the person in the story was talking about her daughter, which was a newborn that she had to leave in the street, in this snow, for a Christian lady in Poland to pick her up so she can take her to the orphanage.
故事中的人物正在谈论她的女儿，她是一个刚出生的女儿，她不得不在大雪中把她留在街上，让波兰的一位基督徒女士来接她，这样她就可以带她去孤儿院。
And we're talking about a newborn, and it was 25 degree below.
我们谈论的是新生儿，当时气温低于 25 度。
There was snow on the ground.
地上有雪。
She left the child in the street.
她把孩子留在街上。
This woman had seen most of her family perish, and had not gotten to see her daughter after her birth.
这个女人亲眼目睹了大部分家人的灭亡，在女儿出生后却再也没有见到过她。
[SPEAKING YIDDISH] David Boder [SPEAKING YIDDISH]
[说意第绪语] David Boder [说意第绪语]
This person was sobbing throughout the interview.
这个人在整个采访过程中一直在抽泣。
And it just seems after he listened to 109 people, it weighed very heavy on him at that point.
似乎在他听完109个人的发言之后，他的压力就变得非常沉重。
I was able to hear the sadness, his impatience with the very last story in a way, I have had it.
我能听到他的悲伤，以及他对最后一个故事的不耐烦，我已经受够了。
I have heard enough.
我已经听够了。
[SPEAKING YIDDISH] David Boder Well, we have to conclude.
[说意第绪语] David Boder 好吧，我们必须得出结论。
My automobile is waiting.
我的车已经在等了。
That's how we miss very valuable material if I have to cancel another appointment.
如果我不得不取消另一个预约，这就是我们错过非常有价值的材料的原因。
[UNINTELLIGIBLE], September of '46 in the synagogue they first desecrated in 1937 or 1937, and which has its holiday service for the first time today and donors here to re-dededicate it.
[难以理解]，46 年 9 月，他们在 1937 年或 1937 年首次亵渎的犹太教堂，今天首次举行节日仪式，捐赠者在这里重新奉献它。
What he have heard from this woman is about the story we have heard from everybody.
他从这个女人那里听到的故事就是我们从每个人那里听到的故事。
I'm concluding my project in Germany.
我即将完成在德国的项目。
And I want to thank the owner, Jack Thompson from The Chicago Tribune.
我要感谢店主、《芝加哥论坛报》的杰克·汤普森。
Boder wobbles back and forth here.
博德在这里来回摇晃。
On one side, a promoter scholar making his acknowledgement, on the other, an exhausted man shaken by what he's heard.
一方面，一位发起人学者承认了这一点，另一方面，一个筋疲力尽的人被他所听到的所震惊。
And I can't speak.
而我不能说话。
I don't remember the names now because I'm just in a trance after this woman's report.
我现在不记得这些名字了，因为听完这个女人的报告我正处于恍惚状态。
I'm completely distraught.
我彻底心烦意乱了。
The automobile is waiting.
汽车正在等待。
I'm going to Frankfurt.
我要去法兰克福。
Who is going to sit in judgement over all this?
谁来评判这一切？
And who is going to judge my work?
谁来评判我的工作？
Illinois Institute of Technology via recording.
伊利诺伊理工学院通过录音。
I'm leaving tonight for Paris.
我今晚就要出发去巴黎。
The project is concluded.
该项目已经结束。
You can read almost anything into that final, "who will judge my work?" The shame reporters feel when they hold the camera on someone in tears, the desire for recognition, the realization that his achievement consists of making people relive their worst moments.
你几乎可以从决赛中读到任何内容：“谁来评判我的作品？”当记者拿着相机对着一个流泪的人时，记者们感到羞耻，渴望得到认可，意识到他的成就在于让人们重温他们最糟糕的时刻。
And the hope that documenting this tragedy might alleviate any guilt he might have felt about living in America while his relatives died at the hands of the Nazis.
希望记录这场悲剧可以减轻他在亲戚死于纳粹之手时生活在美国的愧疚感。
Boder spoke these words in English so that the woman would not understand, and he never included them in the transcript.
博德用英语讲了这些话，以免这位女士听不懂，而且他从未将这些内容写入笔录中。
Something happened when he came back.
当他回来时发生了一些事情。
His promoter's instinct failed him just when he needed it the most.
就在他最需要的时候，他的发起人的本能却让他失望了。
He never got enough money to transcribe all his interviews.
他从来没有足够的钱来转录他所有的采访。
He had hoped to put them in a book, but in the end, he published only eight out of the 109.
他原本希望将它们写成一本书，但最终，他只出版了 109 篇中的 8 篇。
And the book, I Did Not Interview The Dead, sold poorly and went out of print.
《我没有采访死者》一书销量不佳并绝版。
He followed his daughter to the west coast in 1952, and was offered a position as an unpaid research associate at UCLA.
1952 年，他跟随女儿来到西海岸，并获得加州大学洛杉矶分校 (UCLA) 的无薪研究员职位。
With the grant money running out, Boder kept transcribing the recordings on his own.
随着补助金耗尽，博德继续自己抄写录音。
I picture him alone in his office, playing and replaying passages to filter words from the noise, visited occasionally by his daughter Elena.
我想象他独自一人在办公室里，不断地播放和重播段落，以滤除噪音中的文字，他的女儿埃琳娜偶尔会来拜访。
Here he was in the new world, but immersed again in the old.
他来到了新世界，但又陷入了旧世界。
After a life of moving on, moving out, moving up, Boder was back where he started.
在经历了不断前进、离开、向上的生活之后，博德又回到了他开始的地方。
I remember the tapes being in one area in this little library in the late '60's or '70's even.
我记得 60 年代末甚至 70 年代的磁带就放在这个小图书馆的一个区域里。
Queries came in to the department asking about the tapes, and they had disappeared.
该部门接到询问有关这些录音带的询问，但它们却消失了。
They were gone.
他们走了。
Irving Maltzman was a young psychologist at UCLA when Boder first arrived, and he was in charge of the reading room of the Psychology Department there.
博德刚来时，欧文·马尔兹曼是加州大学洛杉矶分校的一名年轻心理学家，负责心理学系阅览室。
I just think we just didn't realize the historical significance of them.
我只是认为我们只是没有意识到它们的历史意义。
In part, when he published it, there were still-- I think people had enough of the terrible stories that had appeared in the newspaper finally.
在某种程度上，当他出版它时，我认为人们终于受够了报纸上出现的可怕故事。
And in part, it was because he was not some public celebrity.
部分原因是他不是什么公众名人。
There was a lack of publicity and acclamation of the work at the time.
当时这项工作缺乏宣传和好评。
And so it was just sitting in a little reading room in a psychology department, rather than in the Smithsonian Institute or the Holocaust Museum or something.
所以它只是坐在心理学系的一个小阅览室里，而不是在史密森学会或大屠杀博物馆之类的地方。
The term, the Holocaust, came up during the Second World Congress of Jewish Studies in 1957 in Jerusalem.
“大屠杀”这个词是 1957 年在耶路撒冷举行的第二届世界犹太研究大会期间出现的。
It caught on quickly among scholars and spread to the general public by the early '60's.
它很快在学者中流行起来，并在 20 世纪 60 年代初传播到普通大众。
Before then, back in the '40's, everybody had a different name for it.
在此之前，早在 40 年代，每个人对它都有不同的名字。
There recent catastrophe, the recent Jewish catastrophe, the disaster, even the permanent pogrom.
还有最近的灾难，最近的犹太灾难，灾难，甚至是永久性的大屠杀。
Boder died in 1961.
博德于 1961 年去世。
He was 75, and if he'd have lived just a few more years, he might have found an audience.
他已经 75 岁了，如果他能再活几年，他可能会找到观众。
In the early '60's, people began the serious gathering of recorded oral histories.
20世纪60年代初，人们开始认真收集有记载的口述历史。
As they looked around for survivors and testimonials, a set of wire spools sat unnoticed, Raiders of the Lost Ark style, inside wooden crates in a place called the Jefferson Technical Complex in the Library of Congress.
当他们四处寻找幸存者和证言时，一组金属线轴未被注意到，就像《夺宝奇兵》中的风格一样，被放置在国会图书馆杰斐逊技术综合大楼的木箱内。
The spools were copies of the originals, made by Boder himself and sent to the library in the '50's.
这些线轴是原件的复制品，由博德本人制作并在 50 年代送到图书馆。
Library staffers who asked about the crates were told they contained recordings of, quote, "people who had psychological problems as a result of being displaced during the war."
询问这些板条箱的图书馆工作人员被告知，里面有“因战争期间流离失所而出现心理问题的人”的录音。
It wasn't until the mid 1990's that anyone figured out what the recordings were.
直到 20 世纪 90 年代中期，才有人知道这些录音是什么。
A third of Boder's interviews have still never been transcribed.
博德的采访中有三分之一尚未被转录。
Carl Marziali in Chicago.
卡尔·马齐亚利在芝加哥。
If you want to hear David Boder's recordings, or read transcripts, there's a link to the official IIT website, Voices of the Holocaust, from the This American Life website, www.thisamericanlife.org.
如果您想听 David Boder 的录音或阅读文字记录，可以从“This American Life”网站 www.thisamericanlife.org 找到 IIT 官方网站“大屠杀之声”的链接。
Coming up, if your mom bites you in the tuckus, what's the name for that?
来吧，如果你妈妈咬了你的袈裟，那叫什么名字？
Is that love?
那是爱吗？
What if she breaks a plate over your head?
如果她打碎了你头上的盘子怎么办？
Love?
爱？
Is that love?
那是爱吗？
Answers in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将在一分钟内答复。
It's This American Life..
这就是美国生活..
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program of course we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on the theme.
每周我们的节目当然都会选择一些主题，为大家带来各种不同类型的主题故事。
Today's program, Before It Had A Name, stories of things in that delicate moment before we know exactly what they are.
今天的节目《在它有名字之前》讲述了在我们确切知道它们是什么之前那个微妙时刻的故事。
And how those things change once we pin a name onto to them.
一旦我们给它们加上名字，这些事情就会发生怎样的变化。
Things like, for example, Axis of Evil, a perfect example.
例如，《邪恶轴心》就是一个完美的例子。
Sure, North Korea, Iraq and Iran, they were bad before we pinned the name Axis of Evil onto those countries.
当然，朝鲜、伊拉克和伊朗在我们给这些国家贴上“邪恶轴心”的名字之前，它们就很糟糕。
But the name changed things, changed things for them.
但这个名字改变了一切，改变了他们的一切。
It turns out that part of what made North Korea so angry lately is being included on that list, is being called evil.
事实证明，最近让朝鲜如此愤怒的部分原因被列入了这份名单，被称为邪恶。
Names matter.
名字很重要。
Well we've arrived at Act Two of our program.
好了，我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two is about that moment when we suddenly learn the name of something that has, up until that point, remain unnamed for us.
第二幕讲述的是我们突然得知某个事物的名称的那一刻，而在此之前，我们还没有为它命名。
When the name penetrate into us, the person or the place or the thing has penetrated into us too, I think.
我想，当名字渗透到我们内心时，那个人、那个地方或那件事也渗透到我们心里。
And if that doesn't seem to true to you, Heather O'Neill provides these real-life case studies.
如果您觉得这不正确，希瑟·奥尼尔提供了这些现实生活中的案例研究。
I didn't know who Paul [?
我不知道保罗是谁[?
Rayon ?] was until he crashed on his motor scooter in front of the school, and he became the first person we ever saw killed.
Rayon？]直到他在学校门口骑着摩托车撞车，他成为我们见过的第一个被杀的人。
I had never heard of Sunny Teasedale until Mary Lou showed me the hickeys on her neck.
在玛丽·卢向我展示她脖子上的吻痕之前，我从未听说过桑尼·蒂斯代尔。
I thought this guy was just a goon until I heard him singing "Panis Angelicus" with a cigarette in his mouth.
我以为这家伙只是个混蛋，直到我听到他嘴里叼着烟唱着《Panis Angelicus》。
Then I knew his name was Johnny Delorio for the rest of my life.
然后我就知道他的名字是我余生的约翰尼·德洛里奥。
I didn't know Casper James until my uncle was buried at his parents' funeral parlor.
直到我叔叔被埋葬在他父母的殡仪馆之前，我才认识卡斯帕·詹姆斯。
"Hi," he said in the lobby.
“嗨，”他在大厅里说道。
"We go to school together." Linda Hall was just a girl with a missing finger until she taught me all the words to a Sly and the Family Stone song at the swimming pool.
“我们一起上学。”琳达·霍尔（Linda Hall）只是一个缺了手指的女孩，直到她在游泳池里教了我斯莱和斯通家族歌曲的所有歌词。
He was from Africa, and he was cute.
他来自非洲，而且很可爱。
I wrote Chemewe down on a piece of paper so that I could practice it and stop asking him what his name was.
我把 Chemewe 写在一张纸上，这样我就可以练习它，并且不再问他叫什么名字。
He said his mother with Suzanne, from the Leonard Cohen song, but I could never remember his name.
他说他的母亲和苏珊娜（来自莱昂纳德·科恩的歌曲），但我永远记不起他的名字。
"That's Quincy," they said, pointing to the boy on the high diving board who was afraid to jump.
“那是昆西，”他们指着跳台上那个不敢跳的男孩说。
And every one yelled in unison, "Jump, jump, jump." Natasha wasn't really Natasha until she told me that her father hadn't been home for three days, and she slept on the balcony when it was warm.
大家齐声喊道：“跳，跳，跳。”娜塔莎并不是真正的娜塔莎，直到她告诉我她父亲已经三天没回家了，天暖和的时候她就睡在阳台上。
The teacher held up the math test that said Vladimir at the top of the page.
老师举起了数学考试，页面顶部写着“弗拉基米尔”。
In all the slots for answers, he had drawn pictures of guns.
在所有的答案栏里，他都画了枪的图片。
I looked at Vladimir sitting way in the corner.
我看着坐在角落里的弗拉基米尔。
I didn't even think of him as having a name.
我什至没有想到他有名字。
I never knew Zero's real name.
我从来不知道零的真名。
He sold heroin on Madison Avenue.
他在麦迪逊大道上贩卖海洛因。
Everyone started calling him Zero because just saying his real name would supposedly bring you bad luck.
每个人都开始叫他零，因为只要说出他的真名就会给你带来厄运。
The neighborhood took away his name so they could feel a little more safe.
邻居们记下了他的名字，这样他们就可以感到更安全了。
My dad could never remember names, so every actor he didn't like on television he called, the child molester, or a degenerate.
我父亲永远记不住名字，所以他在电视上称呼每一个他不喜欢的演员，猥亵儿童者，或者堕落者。
I would say, "The with the Italian pedophile is coming on." And he would hurry to the living room.
我会说，“意大利恋童癖的事情即将发生。”他会赶紧去客厅。
My dad said he never paid for anything smaller than his fist.
我爸爸说他从来没有为比拳头小的东西付过钱。
He used to tuck a gun in his boxer shorts when he took out the garbage because he said there could be rats out there.
他倒垃圾时常常把枪塞进平角短裤里，因为他说外面可能有老鼠。
He got a license so that he could sell flowers on the corner downtown.
他获得了许可证，这样他就可以在市中心的拐角处卖花。
The name on the license said Leonard O'Neill.
执照上的名字是伦纳德·奥尼尔。
Who the hell is that, I thought?
我想，那人到底是谁？
Everybody I ever met called my dad, Buddy.
我见过的每个人都叫我爸爸，巴迪。
My dad called me Dumbo because he said I had big ears.
我爸爸叫我小飞象，因为他说我有一双大耳朵。
My mother called me Sputnik because my eyes were so big.
我妈妈叫我人造卫星，因为我的眼睛太大了。
My dad named me heather after a woman who taught him to read after he dropped out of school when he was in grade three.
我父亲给我取名为希瑟，以纪念他三年级辍学后一位教他读书的女人。
So that was my first name, and for a long time my middle name was Who.
这就是我的名字，很长一段时间我的中间名是“谁”。
I had countless last names like, Heather who use to go out with Derek.
我有无数的姓氏，比如希瑟（Heather），他们曾经和德里克（Derek）出去。
Heather who kissed Marco at the dance.
希瑟在舞会上亲吻了马可。
Heather who told Jeremy that her name was butterfly.
希瑟告诉杰里米她的名字叫蝴蝶。
Heather who had her shoes stolen in the park.
希瑟的鞋子在公园里被偷了。
Heather who wears that ugly blue ski jacket.
希瑟穿着那件丑陋的蓝色滑雪夹克。
Heather who has a sister in juvie.
希瑟有一个在少年监狱服刑的妹妹。
Heather who has a dad who used to rob banks.
希瑟的父亲曾经抢劫银行。
Heather who thinks she's better than every one because she says she was reincarnated.
希瑟认为自己比所有人都好，因为她说自己已经转世了。
When you get your name, you are just a little baby and have no say about the matter.
当你得到你的名字时，你只是一个小婴儿，对这件事没有发言权。
Your parents could get your name from anywhere.
你的父母可以从任何地方知道你的名字。
You could have a name that comes from an ugly relative or out of the Bible.
你的名字可能来自一个丑陋的亲戚或来自圣经。
It could be something they heard shouted out at the swimming pool.
这可能是他们在游泳池里听到的喊叫声。
It could be the Spanish name for a bird, a strange name, a name your parents spelled wrong and no one could ever say right.
它可能是一种鸟的西班牙语名字，一个奇怪的名字，一个你父母拼错的名字，没有人能说对。
Still, when people learn your name, they think they know all about you.
尽管如此，当人们知道你的名字时，他们会认为他们了解你的一切。
When my uncle sent me a pair of running shoes from Virginia, I wrote my name on the sides of both sneakers so no one could steal them from my locker.
当我叔叔从弗吉尼亚寄给我一双跑鞋时，我在两双运动鞋的两侧写下了我的名字，这样就没有人可以从我的储物柜里偷走它们。
"Hi Heather," the man across for me in the bus said.
“嗨，希瑟，”公交车上我对面的那个人说道。
It shocked me how he said, "Hi, Heather," like he knew me all his life.
他说“嗨，希瑟”的方式让我震惊，就像他从小就认识我一样。
I'd seen him around, chasing pigeons and trying to pour beer on little kids in the park.
我见过他在公园里追鸽子，还想把啤酒倒给小孩子。
I wanted to reach across the bus aisle and punch him in the face for knowing my name.
因为他知道我的名字，我真想伸手穿过公交车过道，打他的脸。
Heater O'Neill is the author of Two Eyes Are You Sleeping, a book of poetry.
希特·奥尼尔是诗集《两只眼睛你在睡觉吗》的作者。
[MUSIC - "WHAT'S MY NAME" BY BRIC-A-BRAC]
[音乐 - BRIC-A-BRAC 的“我叫什么名字”]
Act Three, A Bad Day For Plates.
第三幕，对盘子来说糟糕的一天。
Laura Tangusso has this story about how things changed in her life, and in her whole family's life actually, when events in their past that they interpreted one way suddenly got a different name.
劳拉·坦古索（Laura Tangusso）有一个关于她的生活以及她整个家庭的生活发生变化的故事，当时他们以一种方式解释的过去事件突然有了不同的名称。
All my life, I thought my mother was difficult and crazy.
我一生都认为我的母亲很难相处，而且很疯狂。
My brother and sisters did too.
我的兄弟姐妹也这么做了。
That's how we thought of her for decades until recently, when we learned that there was a very different explanation for why she acted the way she did.
这就是我们几十年来对她的看法，直到最近，我们才得知，对于她为什么这么做，有一种截然不同的解释。
We all have memories of craziness.
我们都有疯狂的记忆。
Here are my sisters Leslie and Liz, and my brother John.
这是我的姐妹莱斯利和莉兹，以及我的兄弟约翰。
I think I might have been in kindergarten.
我想我可能已经上幼儿园了。
I went in the kitchen and she had broken all the dishes, just broken things everywhere.
我走进厨房，她把所有的盘子都打碎了，东西到处都是。
She was just breaking them.
她只是打破了它们。
She just really lost it.
她只是真的失去了。
She picked up a jar of relish, and she turned around and just whipped it, pitched it at the wall.
她拿起一罐调料，转过身来，把它鞭打起来，扔到墙上。
And it smashed on the wall.
而且还撞到了墙上。
And I just remember the relish dripping down the wall.
我只记得从墙上滴下来的味道。
And she was just doing her own thing.
而她只是在做自己的事情。
She was in her own little world.
她沉浸在自己的小世界里。
I remember being older in high school, and being at mom's.
我记得高中时年纪较大，在妈妈家。
And she lost her comb, and she just was crying and angry.
她失去了梳子，她只是哭着、生气着。
And I remember really consoling and saying, "Mom, you know, it's a comb.
我记得我真的安慰过她说：“妈妈，你知道，这是一把梳子。
Here, it's right here." And I felt so bad.
这里，就是这里。”我感觉很糟糕。
Mom went into a tirade about something and took a plate, a full-sized dinner plate, and whacked me on the top of his head.
妈妈对某事长篇大论，拿起一个盘子，一个全尺寸的餐盘，敲了我的头顶。
And I quickly left the house.
我很快就离开了家。
And I remember sitting on a stone wall, pretty upset and stunned by what had happened.
我记得我坐在石墙上，对所发生的事情感到非常沮丧和震惊。
And I felt this warm sensation on the back of my neck, and I reached back with my hand.
我感觉到脖子后面有一种温暖的感觉，我把手伸了回来。
And I was actually bleeding from my skull.
我的头骨实际上正在流血。
It wasn't serious that it required stitches or anything, but Mom did draw blood as they say.
并不严重，需要缝针什么的，但妈妈确实像他们说的那样抽了血。
What made my mother confusing though was that she had another side of her.
但让我母亲感到困惑的是，她还有另一面。
She was smart.
她很聪明。
She was adventurous.
她很喜欢冒险。
She took us to the original production of Hair in London.
她带我们去看了伦敦《头发》的原版制作。
When I was 13 years old, she told me to read The Autobiography of Malcolm x.
当我13岁的时候，她让我读《马尔科姆·X自传》。
It's a book I still have.
这是我还留着的一本书。
She had friends who thought she was a real character and fun.
她的朋友们认为她是一个真实的人，而且很有趣。
And even some of our friends thought she was cool.
甚至我们的一些朋友也认为她很酷。
But for us, things always felt precarious, on the brink.
但对我们来说，一切总是岌岌可危，处于边缘。
She was unpredictable.
她难以预测。
She could be scary, and we all tried in our own ways to protect ourselves and make things normal.
她可能很可怕，我们都试图以自己的方式保护自己，让事情变得正常。
Being the oldest, I would try to keep the house in order, thinking somehow that would keep my mother in order.
作为最大的孩子，我会尽力保持家里井然有序，认为这样可以让我的母亲保持井然有序。
My sisters spent as much time as they could out of the house.
我的姐妹们尽可能多地呆在家里。
Leslie once asked my parents if she could live with another family.
莱斯利曾经问我的父母她是否可以和另一个家庭住在一起。
I remember how when my sister was young, when she got upset she'd hold her breath until she passed out.
我记得我姐姐年轻的时候，当她心烦意乱时，她会屏住呼吸，直到昏倒。
I always figured this was her own special way of escaping.
我一直认为这是她自己特殊的逃避方式。
By the time we were adults, we'd all decided to keep our distance from her.
当我们成年后，我们都决定与她保持距离。
None of us lived far away, but we'd easily go three, four months, or much longer, without seeing her.
我们都住得很远，但很容易三四个月，甚至更长的时间，都见不到她。
When we did see her, it was usually because we initiated it, not her.
当我们确实见到她时，通常是因为我们发起的，而不是她。
It was as if it just never occurred to her to make connections with her family.
就好像她从来没有想过要与家人建立联系。
I remember once I was babysitting my niece and nephew, and I took them to pick up my mother so we could all do something together.
我记得有一次我照顾我的侄女和侄子，我带他们去接我的母亲，这样我们就可以一起做一些事情。
When my mother got in the car, my nephew, who was four at the time, looked at me and asked, "Who's she?"
当我妈妈上车时，我四岁的侄子看着我问：“她是谁？”
It was a family joke about my mother, that if she was this bad now, just wait until she got old.
这是关于我母亲的家庭笑话，如果她现在这么糟糕，那就等她老了再说吧。
And in fact, when she reached her 70's, and her health began to decline, she became a kind of nightmare.
事实上，当她70多岁的时候，她的健康状况开始恶化，她成了一种噩梦。
She had become severely arthritic and frail, but lied about seeing doctors and resented our efforts to assist her.
她患有严重的关节炎，身体虚弱，但却谎称要去看医生，并对我们为帮助她所做的努力感到不满。
To make things worse, she also started losing her memory.
更糟糕的是，她还开始失去记忆。
By the time she'd had a second hip surgery, she had become so confusing and agitated, she slugged a nurse.
当她进行第二次髋关节手术时，她变得如此困惑和激动，她殴打了一名护士。
We weren't that shocked, but the hospital took it seriously, and she was sent to a psych unit.
我们并没有那么震惊，但医院认真对待了这件事，她被送往精神科。
The doctors there did some routine CAT scans, what we were then told was so amazing it took months to fully absorb.
那里的医生做了一些常规的 CAT 扫描，然后我们被告知非常令人惊奇，需要几个月的时间才能完全吸收。
On New Year's Eve of 1999, six months after hearing that report, I began recording my and my siblings' reactions.
1999 年除夕夜，即听到该报告六个月后，我开始记录我和兄弟姐妹的反应。
When the doctors heard our descriptions of her behavior, combined with what they saw her scans, they said that it was very possible that she has had some brain damage most of her life.
当医生听到我们对她行为的描述，并结合他们看到的扫描结果时，他们说她很可能一生中大部分时间都受到过一些脑部损伤。
And I think that for me-- I don't know but I think maybe too for my sisters and brothers, that was just one of the most stunning moments in all of this for me because all my life I just thought that my mother was just difficult.
我认为对我来说——我不知道，但我想对我的兄弟姐妹来说也许也是如此，这对我来说是这一切中最令人震惊的时刻之一，因为我一生都认为我的母亲很难相处。
That's the way she was.
她就是这样。
I just thought she was just that way.
我只是觉得她就是这样。
But when I heard it from someone else, and when they said they had even physical evidence of it, it just changed things in an instant.
但当我从其他人那里听到这一点时，当他们说他们甚至有物证时，事情立刻就改变了。
The CAT scans showed that my mother has frontal lobe syndrome, which is a shrinkage of the frontal lobe of the brain.
CAT 扫描显示我母亲患有额叶综合症，即大脑额叶萎缩。
She may have been born with it, or it may have been the result of some childhood illness or accident.
她可能是与生俱来的，也可能是某些童年疾病或事故的结果。
In any event, for as long as we've known her, she's had it.
无论如何，自从我们认识她以来，她就已经受够了。
Just with that diagnosis, there's a sense of relief because it's no longer an unknown.
有了这个诊断，人们就有一种如释重负的感觉，因为它不再是一个未知数。
Prior to that, I think that I wrote mom off as being a very malicious person.
在此之前，我认为我认为妈妈是一个非常恶毒的人。
And I just used to think that there was a nasty side of her personality that she was in control of.
我以前只是认为她性格中有令人厌恶的一面，而她却能控制住。
And I guess that was what I learned, is that the bad side of her personality was not necessarily something that she was in control of.
我想这就是我学到的，她性格中不好的一面不一定是她能控制的。
It was an enormous thing to take in.
这是一件非常值得接受的事情。
She'd always been a mystery that we never imagined we'd understand.
她一直是个谜，我们从未想象过我们会理解。
She'd done so many things that were confusing and scary.
她做了很多令人困惑和可怕的事情。
She'd blow up at such small things, like when my brother put too much soap in the sink.
她会因为一些小事而大发雷霆，比如我哥哥在水槽里放了太多肥皂。
My mother got so enraged she put them in his room, said he was sick and threatened to send him to an institution.
我母亲非常生气，她把它们放在他的房间里，说他病了，并威胁要送他去机构。
Suddenly, it didn't seem all her fault.
突然间，这一切似乎不再全是她的错了。
My mother was put on medications, which slowly began to help her.
我母亲接受了药物治疗，慢慢地开始对她有帮助。
She stopped being antagonistic.
她不再敌对。
She showed appreciation for us and the staff, and she acted gracious in ways I had never seen before.
她对我们和工作人员表示感谢，她以我以前从未见过的方式表现出亲切的态度。
After a month and a half in the psych hospital, she was moved into a nursing home.
在精神病院住了一个半月后，她被搬进了疗养院。
But by then, she was experiencing serious memory, and I felt like I was both gaining and losing a mother at the same time.
但那时，她正在经历严重的记忆，我觉得我同时获得和失去了一位母亲。
Hi, it's Laurie.
嗨，我是劳里。
Mother I know.
妈妈我知道。
Hi, how are you?
你好你好吗？
Good, how are you?
很好，你好吗？
Mother Fine, thank you.
妈妈好，谢谢您。
It's my birthday?
今天是我的生日吗？
Laura Tangusso Yep, March 5.
劳拉·坦古索 是的，3 月 5 日。
Sunday.
周日。
Mother Sunday.
母亲周日。
And how old am I going to be on Sunday.
周日我几岁了？
Let's see.
让我们来看看。
Oy, something I'd rather not think about.
哦，有些事我宁愿不去想。
You can hear that my mother is losing her memory, but when I listen to this conversation, what strikes me most is the ease in our voices, how normal we sound, the way my mother laughs at herself.
你可以听出我母亲正在失去记忆，但当我听这段对话时，最让我印象深刻的是我们声音中的轻松，我们听起来多么正常，以及我母亲嘲笑自己的方式。
I mean mom hugged me three times today, kissed me goodbye twice, thanked me so very much for what a great day.
我的意思是妈妈今天拥抱了我三次，两次吻别我，非常感谢我度过了美好的一天。
And I don't remember mom ever saying that stuff.
我不记得妈妈曾经说过这样的话。
We got this six to eight week window of mom being Mrs. Wonderful.
我们有六到八周的时间让妈妈成为奇妙夫人。
I mean she just couldn't have been any more upbeat or radiant and fun to be around and laughing.
我的意思是，她在周围欢笑时表现得再乐观、更容光焕发、更有趣。
And just looking so much better, and having good color in her skin.
而且看起来好多了，皮肤颜色也很好。
She had put on weight.
她的体重增加了。
I mean I hadn't seen mom wear makeup in a bazillion years, fixing her hair.
我的意思是，我已经有无数年没有见过妈妈化妆、整理头发了。
And it was just really sad because I'm thinking, wow, what would life have been if mom had been this person when I was growing up?
这真的很悲伤，因为我在想，哇，如果我小时候妈妈是这个人，生活会怎样？
It's made us all wonder what would she have been like.
这让我们都想知道她会是什么样子。
Maybe she would have stayed married to my father.
也许她会继续和我父亲保持婚姻关系。
Maybe she would have published one of the books she wrote instead of destroying everyone.
也许她会出版她写的一本书，而不是毁掉所有人。
And maybe it wouldn't be so remarkable to us now when she behaves in normal ways.
当她表现正常时，也许现在对我们来说就不会那么引人注目了。
It's also hard not to wonder about how we would have been different.
我们也很难不去想如果我们会有什么不同。
Would there be more grandchildren?
还会有更多的孙子吗？
Would one of us be a published novelist?
我们中的一个人会成为一名出版小说的作家吗？
Would we be happier?
我们会更幸福吗？
But of course, these are possible questions.
但当然，这些都是可能的问题。
Mom did a lot things that affected my childhood, and I'll never forgive her.
妈妈做了很多影响我童年的事情，我永远不会原谅她。
Of all my siblings, my sister Leslie may have had the most difficult relationship with my mother.
在我所有的兄弟姐妹中，我的妹妹莱斯利和我母亲的关系可能是最困难的。
Leslie is the youngest, and was the only one who ever lived alone with her.
莱斯利是最小的一个，也是唯一一个和她单独生活的人。
There was no one else around to cushion her from my mother's craziness, and as soon as she finished high school, Leslie joined the army to get herself away.
周围没有人能让她免受我母亲疯狂的影响，高中一毕业，莱斯利就参军了，以摆脱自己的束缚。
It was very stressful, very confusing for me to go through a lot of change that she put me through.
她让我经历了很多改变，这让我感到压力很大，也很困惑。
And I understand that she was probably sick at the time, but I don't know.
我知道她当时可能病了，但我不知道。
I guess I just haven't worked through it enough.
我想我只是还没有完成足够的工作。
She asked me once how my childhood was.
有一次她问我，我的童年是怎样的。
"Did you have a happy childhood?" was how she phrased it.
“你的童年快乐吗？”她是这么说的。
We were just out, and we were at a restaurant eating.
我们刚出去，在一家餐馆吃饭。
And we just having a conversation about nothing of any great importance, just small talk I guess.
我们只是聊了聊一些无关紧要的事情，我想只是闲聊。
And she just came out with this question.
而她刚刚就提出了这个问题。
Maybe she was lucid at that moment, and she just needed to know.
也许她那一刻是清醒的，她只需要知道。
And I told her I did.
我告诉她我做到了。
The other night, I went to visit my mother at the nursing home.
那天晚上，我去疗养院看望妈妈。
As we were leaving her floor to go out to dinner, my mother wanted to stop by the activities room to say goodbye to some friends.
当我们离开她所在的楼层出去吃晚饭时，我母亲想去活动室跟一些朋友道别。
A man named Patrick, who's in a wheelchair and can't speak very well, called out in his slow voice, "Hello Dorothy." My mother looked directly at him, and in a loud, stern voice said, "And you, get out of that chair and take a walk for heaven's sake." For an instant, I cringed, flashing back to the countless times my mother was inappropriate in public.
一个名叫帕特里克的男人坐在轮椅上，说话不太好，他用缓慢的声音喊道：“你好，多萝西。”我母亲直视着他，用响亮、严厉的声音说道：“看在上帝的份上，你从那把椅子上起来出去走走吧。”一瞬间，我感到畏缩，回想起母亲无数次在公共场合的不当行为。
But then Patrick started laughing, and my mother started laughing.
但后来帕特里克开始笑，我妈妈也开始笑。
And as often happens now, I was reminded how much has changed.
正如现在经常发生的那样，我被提醒发生了多大的变化。
Laura Tangusso is a teacher and visual artist in Boston.
劳拉·坦古索 (Laura Tangusso) 是波士顿的一名教师和视觉艺术家。
This is her first story for the radio.
这是她在广播中的第一个故事。
[MUSIC - "WHAT'S THE GOOD WORD" BY JACKIE REINACH/ MEL PORETZ]
[音乐 - “什么是好词”，作者：JACKIE REINACH/ MEL PORETZ]
Act Four, You Call That Love?
第四幕，你管这叫爱情吗？
Consider please the word, love.
请考虑一下“爱”这个词。
Love between mothers and children, love between spouses.
母亲与子女之间的爱，夫妻之间的爱。
Once the word is applied to a feeling, is it possible that we are not all referring to the same thing?
一旦这个词被用来形容一种感觉，我们是否有可能指的不是同一件事？
Jonathan Goldstein has some thoughts about that question.
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦对这个问题有一些想法。
If there was no such word as love, our vocabulary would be richer, and we'd have to struggle harder to find the right words.
如果没有爱这个词，我们的词汇量将会更加丰富，我们将不得不更加努力地寻找合适的词。
Everyone would be so long winded and Shakespearean in their range of emotional expression.
每个人的情感表达都会如此冗长和莎士比亚式的。
The word love came along and wiped out all sorts of terms in a semantical bloodbath.
“爱”这个词出现了，并在一场语义大屠杀中消灭了各种术语。
Without the word love, people would speak in terms of sensations, like the sensation of standing waist-deep in a tub of warm plum sauce.
如果没有“爱”这个词，人们就会用感觉来表达，就像站在齐腰深的一盆温热的梅子酱里的感觉。
Or the sensation of being tickled on the back of the knees.
或者膝盖后面被痒痒的感觉。
Some would say they felt like they had just swallowed a honey-soaked boxing glove, and others might say that they were feeling like their guts had been yanked out and spread across the kitchen floor.
有些人会说，他们感觉自己刚刚吞下了一只浸过蜂蜜的拳击手套，而另一些人可能会说，他们感觉自己的内脏被拉了出来，散落在厨房地板上。
Without the word love, you would get wedding invitations that would say things like, "On July 15, join us at the Five Holy Martyrs Church of Worship to help celebrate Barry Lyscinzy's feeling of aimless goodwill that he's decided to direct onto Robin Krupka, who's receptive to the idea of being with a man she's fairly certain will never inflict hurt on her."
如果没有爱这个词，你会收到婚礼请柬，上面写着这样的话：“7月15日，加入我们五圣烈士礼拜堂，帮助庆祝巴里·莱辛齐的漫无目的的善意，他决定将这种善意传达给罗宾·克鲁普卡，罗宾·克鲁普卡愿意与一个她相当确定永远不会伤害她的男人在一起。”
Sometimes we call something love because we don't know what else to call it.
有时我们称某些东西为爱，因为我们不知道还能叫它什么。
When I first started dating Holly, there was one night where I was double-riding her back home from downtown on my bike.
当我第一次开始和霍莉约会时，有一个晚上，我骑着自行车从市中心骑着她回家。
And she kissed my neck and rubbed my back through my tee shirt.
她亲吻了我的脖子，隔着我的T恤摩擦着我的背。
We were going uphill, and she knew I could use all the encouragement I could get.
我们正在上坡，她知道我可以利用我能得到的所有鼓励。
We had spent the evening with some friends we didn't especially like, just because we didn't have the heart to say no to them.
我们和一些我们不太喜欢的朋友一起度过了这个晚上，只是因为我们不忍心拒绝他们。
"We should go out more often," she said from behind me.
“我们应该多出去走走，”她在我身后说道。
"The way I hate everybody makes me love you more." Was that a moment of love, or merely an instance of lack of hate?
“我讨厌每个人的方式让我更爱你。”那是一个充满爱的时刻，还是仅仅是一个缺乏仇恨的例子？
With Christiane, I thought I couldn't be in love because her knees were too big.
对于克里斯蒂安，我以为我不能爱上她，因为她的膝盖太大了。
They were the size of grapefruits, and I could not see myself being in love with a woman whose knees were that big.
它们有柚子那么大，我无法想象自己会爱上一个膝盖那么大的女人。
They were ludicrous really.
他们真的很可笑。
My thinking was that it was a good thing they were so ludicrous because they kept me firmly anchored.
我的想法是，他们如此可笑是一件好事，因为他们让我牢牢地锚定了。
If I thought for even a second that I might be falling in love, all I had to do was think of those big, fat knees of hers, and then, one day, I found myself kissing them.
如果我有哪怕一秒钟的想法，我可能会坠入爱河，我所要做的就是想到她那些又大又胖的膝盖，然后，有一天，我发现自己正在亲吻它们。
I had to leap over a great inner hurdle to get to that, but it wasn't love that was on the other side.
我必须跨越一个巨大的内心障碍才能到达这一点，但另一边的并不是爱。
It was just self-congratulatory pats on my own back over how I could move beyond pettiness like that.
我只是自我庆幸地拍拍自己的背，庆幸自己能够超越这样的琐事。
When I was 16, there was a summer I spent in Wildwood, New Jersey, where one night while walking down the boardwalk feeling lonely and depressed, a girl a few years older than me came spinning down the boardwalk, her arms spread out.
当我 16 岁的时候，我在新泽西州怀尔德伍德度过了一个夏天，有一天晚上，当我沿着木板路行走时，感到孤独和沮丧，一个比我大几岁的女孩张开双臂沿着木板路旋转。
She came right towards me, and then, when we were face to face, she kissed me.
她径直朝我走来，然后，当我们面对面时，她吻了我。
Just like that.
就这样。
Because she was drunk or stoned, but she had kissed me.
因为她喝醉了或者喝醉了，但她吻了我。
For the rest of the summer, I couldn't pass a woman on the boardwalk without thinking that we should somehow be meeting in a kiss, that that's how life should really be.
在整个夏天的剩余时间里，每当我在木板路上与一个女人擦肩而过时，我都会想到我们应该以某种方式接吻，这才是生活真正应该的样子。
In that moment, where our lips touched, the way it suddenly brought into alignment the private, unspeakable hopefulness in the heart with the uncontrollableness of the outside world, it felt like as surely as anything else I've ever experienced, a moment of love.
在那一刻，当我们的嘴唇接触的时候，它突然将内心深处难以言喻的希望与外部世界的无法控制结合在一起，这感觉就像我经历过的任何其他事情一样，这是一个爱的时刻。
I say this as an adult who has had serious relationship since, and I can't think of another word but love to describe what I felt that day on the boardwalk.
我是作为一个已经有过认真关系的成年人这样说的，我想不出其他的词，但我很想描述我那天在木板路上的感受。
And that was it.
就是这样。
She just walked on.
她只是继续往前走。
When I was a little kid, my mother's favorite things was to crane her head through a door frame or around a corner and bite me or my sister on the ass while explaining, "Boy, is this a tuckus." I spent much of my childhood walking around our house always on my guard, always feeling like she could strike at any moment.
当我还是个小孩子的时候，我母亲最喜欢做的事情就是把头伸进门框或绕过角落，咬我或我妹妹的屁股，同时解释说：“男孩，这是塔克斯吗？”我童年的大部分时间都在家里走来走去，总是保持警惕，总觉得她随时可能袭击。
She was never really any good with words, so this was sort of her version of a love sonnet.
她从来都不擅长言语，所以这有点像她版本的爱情十四行诗。
At least that's how I've chosen to see it.
至少我是这么选择的。
You could also say it was filthy and damaging, but if you want to see something as love, or even need to see it as love, and you call it love, it feels a lot more like love.
你也可以说它是肮脏的、有害的，但如果你想把某件事看作爱，甚至需要把它看作爱，而你称它为爱，那感觉就更像爱了。
Jonathan Goldstein is one of the producers of our program and author of the great novel, Lenny Bruce Is Dead.
乔纳森·戈德斯坦是我们节目的制作人之一，也是伟大小说《莱尼·布鲁斯已死》的作者。
Well, our program was produced today by Alex Blumberg and myself, with Wendy Dorr, Jonathan Goldstein and Starlee Kine.
好吧，我们今天的节目是由 Alex Blumberg 和我本人以及 Wendy Dorr、Jonathan Goldstein 和 Starlee Kine 制作的。
Senior producer Julie Snyder.
高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Mr. Todd Bachmann and Diane Cook.
Todd Bachmann 先生和 Diane Cook 先生为制作提供帮助。
Music help today from Mr. John Connors.
今天约翰·康纳斯先生提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENT] If you'd lke to buy a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here at the WBEZ in Chicago.
[鸣谢] 如果您想购买本节目或我们任何节目的磁带，请致电芝加哥 WBEZ。
Look it up in the book, or call 312-948-4680.
在书中查找，或致电 312-948-4680。
Or visit our website where you can buy tapes.
或者访问我们的网站，您可以在其中购买磁带。
Or actually you can just listen to our programs for free online, www.thisamericanlife.org.
或者实际上您可以免费在线收听我们的节目，www.thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS]
[资金来源]
WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia.
WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 监督。
Whenever I pass Torey in the hallway, he turns and whistles.
每当我在走廊里经过托雷时，他都会转身吹口哨。
And he says--
他说——
Boy, is this a tuckus.
男孩，这是塔克斯吗？
Ira Glass Sure he does.
艾拉·格拉斯 当然可以。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。