194: Before and After - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #194 | September 21, 2001 194: Before and After Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 194 集 | 2001 年 9 月 21 日 194：之前和之后 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Sarah was at Pier 94 in New York City a couple days ago.
序言 Ira Glass 几天前，莎拉在纽约市的 94 号码头。
It was the place of families of people who had worked in the World Trade Center were going to give DNA samples to police for use in identifying their loved ones.
曾在世贸中心工作过的人们的家人将在这里向警方提供 DNA 样本，以用于识别亲人的身份。
And she was standing in the parking lot.
而她正站在停车场。
Then I saw this guy walking around basically in a circle, looking at people.
然后我看到这个家伙基本上绕着一圈走来走去，看着人们。
And he kept touching his hand to the top of his head, like kind of rubbing the top of his head.
他不断地用手抚摸自己的头顶，就像在揉搓自己的头顶一样。
And his movements were so strange that I actually thought that maybe he was deranged a little bit.
而且他的动作太奇怪了，我什至以为他可能有点精神错乱了。
Then the circles got a little bit smaller, and he came closer to where I was.
然后圆圈变小了一点，他离我的位置更近了。
And then I just realized that he had a flyer pinned to his T-shirt.
然后我才意识到他的 T 恤上别着一张传单。
And the flyer had a picture of this guy, black and white pictures, and some writing on it.
传单上有这个人的照片，黑白照片，上面还有一些文字。
And I realized he was somebody's relative.
我意识到他是某人的亲戚。
He'd been walking all over New York City, posting this flyer over a 40-block area.
他走遍了纽约市，在 40 个街区的范围内张贴了这张传单。
It had a picture of his father.
上面有一张他父亲的照片。
He'd gone to the Armory.
他去了军械库。
He'd filled out a missing persons report.
他填写了一份失踪人员报告。
He tried to reach other people in his father's office on the 93rd floor of the World Trade Center.
他试图联系他父亲位于世贸中心 93 层的办公室里的其他人。
He'd gone to every hospital.
每家医院他都去过了。
And he'd just given some DNA.
他刚刚提供了一些 DNA。
So I said, what are you going to-- what do you do now?
所以我说，你打算做什么——你现在做什么？
And he said, I don't know.
他说，我不知道。
And he said it like-- not just like, I don't know.
他说的就像——不只是像，我不知道。
But he was like, I don't know where to go.
但他说，我不知道该去哪里。
I just-- he just had no idea where to go or what to do.
我只是——他只是不知道该去哪里或做什么。
And he couldn't go home.
而且他不能回家。
It was like, I think there's a sense like, as long as there's daylight, you should be traipsing around the city, you know, looking for whoever.
就像，我认为有一种感觉，只要有白天，你就应该在城市里闲逛，你知道，寻找任何人。
And it was still sort of early afternoon, and I could just tell.
当时还是下午早些时候，我看得出来。
He just had no idea what to do, physically, with himself.
他只是不知道自己该怎么办。
He said, I was walking around over there, and I realized I was literally walking around in circles.
他说，我在那边走来走去，然后我意识到我实际上是在绕圈子。
And I don't know what to do.
我不知道该怎么办。
What's so strange is that it wasn't just people touched so directly by the tragedy who felt that.
奇怪的是，不只是那些直接被这场悲剧所感动的人有这种感觉。
Don't you feel like we've all been in a little bit of a fog?
你不觉得我们都陷入了迷雾吗？
It's hard to sleep.
很难入睡。
It's hard to know what to think of things.
很难知道如何看待事物。
We want to help somehow, but beyond a few simple things, it is not clear what to do or how to do it.
我们想以某种方式提供帮助，但除了一些简单的事情之外，还不清楚该做什么或如何做。
Walking in circles is such a primal response.
绕圈行走是一种原始的反应。
A friend who was in Washington Square Park in New York when the World Trade Center buildings collapsed said that a man that he was standing there started walking in circles at that moment, screaming.
世贸中心大楼倒塌时，一位在纽约华盛顿广场公园的朋友说，他站在那里的一个男人当时开始转圈，尖叫着。
And maybe it's just me.
也许只有我这样。
But before last week, I could have never imagined the feeling that would lead to somebody doing that.
但在上周之前，我从未想象过有人会这样做的感觉。
But now I can.
但现在我可以了。
In Chicago where I live, when I'm in the car driving around, I find myself obsessively staring at the Hancock Center and the Sears Tower, two buildings that are about as large as the World Trade Center buildings.
在我居住的芝加哥，当我开车四处走动时，我发现自己着迷地盯着汉考克中心和西尔斯大厦，这两座建筑与世贸中心大楼差不多大。
And I look at them and try to get my mind around the scale of it.
我看着它们，试图弄清楚它的规模。
About what it means for something so crazily big to come tumbling to the ground.
关于如此巨大的物体翻滚到地面意味着什么。
For two of them.
对于他们两个来说。
Two somethings that big.
两个东西那么大。
Somebody told me that for the first week that this happened, she slept with the radio on because she didn't want to miss the chance that somebody would explain why this happened.
有人告诉我，在这种情况发生的第一周，她睡觉时都开着收音机，因为她不想错过有人解释为什么会发生这种情况的机会。
And don't you feel this?
你没有感觉到吗？
That no matter how much we've all learned in the last two weeks about Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan and the huge military bases that have been in Saudi Arabia since the Persian Gulf War, bases that people hate our guts for-- and you know, who knew?
无论过去两周我们对乌萨马·本·拉登和阿富汗以及自波斯湾战争以来沙特阿拉伯境内的大型军事基地了解了多少，人们都恨透了我们的基地——你知道，谁知道呢？
Who knew?
谁知道？
No matter how many of these facts that we learn about why people in other countries hate us-- facts and facts and facts-- somehow in your gut, don't you have this feeling that it still just doesn't add up?
不管我们了解了多少关于为什么其他国家的人讨厌我们的事实——事实、事实、事实——不知何故，你的直觉中难道不觉得这仍然不成立吗？
It still does not make sense to you?
这对你来说仍然没有意义吗？
So you know, we all keep trying.
所以你知道，我们都在不断努力。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm Our Glass.
我是我们的玻璃。
Today on our program, stories about the news of the last two weeks.
今天我们的节目讲述了过去两周的新闻故事。
About what to make of things now that we've gone from what the world was before to what it is today.
既然我们已经从以前的世界变成了今天的世界，那么我们该如何处理事物呢？
We have stories from David Sedaris, from David Rakoff, from Haruki Murakami and from others.
我们有大卫·塞达里斯、大卫·拉科夫、村上春树和其他人的故事。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One.
第一幕。
In the After of Before and After.
在之前和之后的之后。
Lynn Simpson is 50 and worked on the 89th floor of 1 World Trade Center for a small company called Strategic Communications, where the entire company was located in that building.
林恩·辛普森 (Lynn Simpson) 现年 50 岁，在世贸中心 1 号大楼 89 层为一家名为 Strategy Communications 的小公司工作，整个公司都位于该大楼内。
They did marketing and communications for financial firms.
他们为金融公司进行营销和传播。
And although she knows people who died in the attack on the building, the 20 or so people in her company all made it out.
尽管她认识在大楼袭击事件中丧生的人，但她连队中的 20 多个人都幸免于难。
She escaped the building with about a minute to spare, and as the first tower collapsed, she was one of the people on the street who got showered with glass and debris and that huge cloud of dust and ash.
她在大约一分钟的时间里逃离了大楼，当第一座塔楼倒塌时，她是街上被玻璃和碎片以及巨大的灰尘和灰烬覆盖的人之一。
She spoke with me from her apartment in Queens.
她在皇后区的公寓里与我交谈。
I wanted to talk to her about what she's doing now, and especially what she makes of what happened to her.
我想和她谈谈她现在在做什么，尤其是她对发生在自己身上的事情有何看法。
But we began by reviewing briefly how it is she made it to safety.
但我们首先简要回顾了她是如何安全逃生的。
Well, there were five of us in the office.
嗯，办公室里有我们五个人。
We were the early birds.
我们是早起的鸟儿。
And all of a sudden, there was an enormous crash.
突然，发生了巨大的碰撞。
And the building actually-- it shook.
事实上，那栋大楼——它震动了。
We could feel it shake.
我们能感觉到它在摇晃。
The lights went out.
灯灭了。
The sprinklers came on.
洒水器开了。
The ceiling came down.
天花板掉下来了。
The file cabinets fell.
文件柜掉落了。
Everything started toppling.
一切都开始倾覆。
And smoke immediately filled the entire office.
烟雾立刻充满了整个办公室。
On the floor where you were, how many floors were you from where the airplane hit?
在你所在的楼层，你距离飞机撞击的地方有多少层？
I believe the airplane hit either just above or just about the 89th, 90th, 91st floor.
我相信飞机撞到了 89 层、90 层、91 层的上方或附近。
The only reason that I'm here, partly, is because the airplane hit on the other side of the building.
我来这里的唯一原因部分是因为飞机撞到了大楼的另一边。
My office had a view Uptown of the Empire State Building and the Hudson River and the East River.
我的办公室可以看到帝国大厦住宅区以及哈德逊河和东河。
The lights were out.
灯灭了。
It was smoky, it was dim, and it was getting very hot.
烟雾缭绕，昏暗，而且变得非常热。
I did try it the emergency stairwell and that door was locked.
我确实尝试了紧急楼梯间，门是锁着的。
And we drank water, we covered our noses, and I called my boss, my boyfriend, and my mother.
我们喝了水，捂住了鼻子，我给我的老板、我的男朋友和我的妈妈打电话。
What did you say?
你说什么？
Lynn Simpson I said-- I said to all of them, I'm all right.
林恩·辛普森 我对他们所有人说，我很好。
I don't know what's happened, but I'm all right.
我不知道发生了什么事，但我没事。
And my mother and John, we know me the best-- could hear that my voice was shaking, and I was shaking, and I was afraid.
我的母亲和约翰，我们最了解我——可以听到我的声音在颤抖，我在颤抖，我很害怕。
And I told John, I said, the doors are locked.
我告诉约翰，我说，门是锁着的。
I can't get out.
我出不去。
I can't get down the stairway.
我下不了楼梯。
A few minutes after that, people knocked on the door, and there were people, men with flashlights, knocking on the door, saying, come out and let's go downstairs.
几分钟后，有人敲门，还有人，拿着手电筒的男人，敲门说，出来，我们下楼去。
And the doors were opened at that point in time.
门就在那时打开了。
The stairwell that you hadn't been able to get into.
那个你进不去的楼梯间。
That I had tried before.
我以前尝试过。
But then we started down.
但后来我们开始往下走。
And about the 83rd floor, we had to cross over.
大约到了83层，我们就不得不穿越了。
And we crossed over.
而我们就穿越了。
That floor was devastated.
那层楼已经被毁了。
It was pitch black.
周围一片漆黑。
Full of smoke.
充满烟雾。
The sprinklers were coming down.
洒水器正在降下。
The ceiling had come down.
天花板已经塌下来了。
We had to hold hands to walk across it.
我们必须手牵着手才能走过它。
And the only light we basically had was one man's cell phone.
我们唯一拥有的灯就是一个人的手机。
And we made our way across that to another stairwell.
我们穿过那个楼梯间到达另一个楼梯间。
And then we proceeded down, I believe, to 78.
然后我们继续下降，我相信，到了 78。
At 78, we had to cross to another set of stairs.
78 岁时，我们不得不穿过另一组楼梯。
And when we crossed on 78, it was as if nothing had happened.
当我们跨过78号公路时，一切都好像什么也没发生过一样。
The lights were on.
灯亮了。
No smoke.
没有烟。
Air conditioning, carpeting, it was all perfect.
空调、地毯，一切都很完美。
How strange.
多么奇怪啊。
That must've been so strange for you all.
这对大家来说一定很奇怪。
It was very peculiar.
这很奇特。
Very peculiar to go from one extreme to the other.
从一个极端走到另一个极端是非常奇特的。
But at 78, we had to make a decision.
但在78岁的时候，我们必须做出决定。
There were two exit signs.
有两个出口标志。
And one, I've since learned that one exit went down to one floor and then stopped.
第一，我后来了解到，有一个出口通向一层，然后停了下来。
It was just dead.
它刚刚死了。
And the other exit, which somebody said, trust me.
还有另一个出口，有人说，相信我。
I know we have to go down this staircase.
我知道我们必须走下这个楼梯。
And we did.
我们做到了。
We trusted that person and we went down that staircase.
我们信任那个人，然后走下楼梯。
And that led us to the bottom.
这把我们引向了谷底。
And then we continued down.
然后我们继续往下走。
We had to move over to the side, because the firemen, in full gear, were coming up.
我们不得不移到一边，因为全副武装的消防员正在赶来。
And they started, they met us at about 50, and they started coming up.
他们开始了，他们在 50 岁左右遇见了我们，然后他们开始出现。
And when we got to the plaza level-- the plaza level is the level between the two towers.
当我们到达广场层时——广场层是两座塔楼之间的层。
And there's a fountain out there, and they often use it for concerts.
那里有一个喷泉，他们经常用它来举办音乐会。
They told us, do not look up.
他们告诉我们，不要抬头。
Do not look out.
别向外看。
Do not look down.
不要往下看。
Just keep going.
继续吧。
And we need you to hurry.
我们需要你快点。
Run.
跑步。
Could you jog?
你可以慢跑吗？
I'm sure that in the last week and a half, you must have thought a lot about the fact that you made it and a lot of other people didn't.
我确信在过去的一个半星期里，您一定对自己成功了而其他很多人却没有成功的事实进行了很多思考。
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass What do you think when you think about that?
当你想到这个时，艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）你会怎么想？
How are you putting that together in your head?
你是如何将这些整合到你的脑海中的？
A lot of it has to do, I think, with timing, with luck.
我认为，这很大程度上与时机和运气有关。
There's a small part of me that feels that it was fated.
我内心有一小部分感觉这是命中注定的。
Perhaps there's something else in the world that I'm supposed to do.
也许世界上还有其他事情是我应该做的。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Part of me does feel that, definitely.
我的一部分确实感觉到了这一点，绝对的。
But part of you feels like it's just chance.
但你的一部分感觉这只是偶然。
Part of me feels like it's chance.
我的一部分感觉这是一个机会。
I do know that my outlook on life has changed.
我确实知道我的人生观已经改变了。
I know that for me, I'm going to not put off things that I want to do.
我知道对我来说，我不会推迟我想做的事情。
One of the things that is important to me is horseback riding.
对我来说重要的事情之一就是骑马。
It's been important to me since I was seven.
从我七岁起，这对我来说就很重要。
And John and I also live in Pennsylvania.
约翰和我也住在宾夕法尼亚州。
And I told the next door neighbor, who is interested in horses, to please go out and find me two horses.
我告诉隔壁对马感兴趣的邻居，请他出去给我找两匹马。
And I also want to spend more time with my family, with my friends.
我也想花更多的时间和我的家人、朋友在一起。
They also sat with the minister-- my sister called the minister-- and they all sat in my mother's living room and, as they said, they watched me die as 1 World Trade Center went down.
他们还和部长坐在一起——我姐姐称部长为部长——他们都坐在我母亲的客厅里，正如他们所说，他们看着我在世贸中心一号大楼倒塌时死去。
Because they hadn't heard from me since that nine o'clock phone call.
因为自从九点钟的电话之后他们就没有收到我的消息了。
And they said they grieved for about half an hour, until John called and said, I heard from Lynn and she's alive.
他们说他们悲伤了大约半个小时，直到约翰打电话说，我收到林恩的消息，她还活着。
Wow.
哇。
So for half an hour, they thought you were gone.
所以有半个小时，他们以为你已经走了。
Yes.
是的。
And John also thought I was gone, because he watched the towers go down.
约翰也以为我已经走了，因为他看着双塔倒塌。
And nobody had heard from me.
没有人收到我的消息。
It was impossible to call.
打电话是不可能的。
I called them, I was walking across the Williamsburg Bridge and there were two guys walking to my left.
我打电话给他们，当时我正在穿过威廉斯堡大桥，有两个人走在我的左边。
And everybody kind of looked at me, because everybody walking with me looked normal.
每个人都看着我，因为和我一起走路的每个人看起来都很正常。
They had obviously been evacuated from their buildings and were leaving the city.
他们显然已经从建筑物中撤离并正在离开这座城市。
I did not look normal.
我看起来不正常。
I was dust-covered, filthy, and staring straight ahead.
我满身灰尘，脏兮兮的，眼睛直视前方。
And they asked me.
他们问我。
They heard my story.
他们听到了我的故事。
And he had a cell phone.
他有一部手机。
And I said, may I please use your cell phone?
我说，我可以用一下你的手机吗？
He said, yes.
他说，是的。
I'm having trouble getting through, but you may use it.
我无法接通，但你可以使用它。
So I punched in the number, called John.
于是我拨通了约翰的电话号码。
I did it twice.
我做了两次。
It didn't go through.
它没有通过。
He kept hitting redial and redial for about five minutes, and he kept talking as we walked.
他不断地重拨和重拨大约五分钟，我们一边走一边不停地说话。
And all of a sudden he got-- he said, it's ringing, and he handed me the phone.
突然间他——他说，铃声响了，然后他把电话递给了我。
And I got on the phone, and I said, hi, John.
我接通了电话，我说，嗨，约翰。
I'm walking across a bridge.
我正走过一座桥。
And John just screamed.
约翰只是尖叫起来。
And he told me that he fell on the floor.
他告诉我他摔倒在地板上。
And he said, you're alive, you're alive, my God, you're alive.
他说，你还活着，你还活着，天哪，你还活着。
And I said, I'm alive.
我说，我还活着。
I'm walking across the Williamsburg Bridge.
我正在走过威廉斯堡大桥。
Please call my mother.
请给我妈妈打电话。
Anybody who's been watching TV has seen the images of the Towers being hit and collapsing over and over and over.
任何看过电视的人都一遍又一遍地看到双子塔被击中并倒塌的画面。
So you must have been seeing that as well.
所以你一定也看到了这一点。
Yes, I saw it.
是的，我看到了。
I did decide to watch it.
我确实决定观看它。
And I did decide to watch it on Wednesday, the day after.
我确实决定在第二天的周三观看。
I did not watch it on Tuesday night.
周二晚上我没有看。
And when you first saw what it was and what it looked like from outside, what did you think?
当你第一次看到它是什么以及它从外面看起来是什么样子时，你有什么想法？
I was horrified.
我很害怕。
At the first plane that went in, I counted the floors.
在第一架飞机起飞时，我数了一下楼层。
And I know that it went in very near my floor.
我知道它非常靠近我的楼层。
On my floor.
在我的地板上。
It impacted the floor.
它撞击了地板。
Does it seem more horrible watching the pictures of it and seeing it from the outside than it seemed when you were inside?
从外面看它的照片，是不是比在里面看到它更可怕？
Yes.
是的。
It seems much more horrible from the outside.
从外面看似乎更加可怕。
Because inside, I don't have those images.
因为在里面，我没有那些图像。
I have my own images of smoke and flames and dust.
我有自己的烟雾、火焰和灰尘的图像。
But I don't have the image of-- I mean-- of the plane.
但我没有——我的意思是——这架飞机的图像。
And also, I cannot watch the TV with all of the missing people.
而且，我不能和所有失踪的人一起看电视。
That truly breaks my heart.
这真的让我心碎。
And the tears well up.
并且眼泪夺眶而出。
Because you feel like, oh, that could have been your family.
因为你觉得，哦，那可能是你的家人。
Yes.
是的。
It could have been my family.
可能是我的家人。
The fact that John was grieving here in New York and my family was grieving in Pennsylvania with the minister, and they were mourning me because they thought I was dead-- I mean, I can picture that.
事实上，约翰在纽约悲伤，我的家人在宾夕法尼亚州与牧师一起悲伤，他们哀悼我，因为他们认为我已经死了——我的意思是，我可以想象这一点。
I can picture them all in their individual places, just mourning me.
我可以想象他们都在各自的地方，只是哀悼我。
And my brother packed a black suit, a black tie, and white shirt, and drove to my mother's from New Jersey when he heard.
我哥哥听到消息后，穿上黑色西装、黑色领带和白色衬衫，从新泽西开车到我母亲家。
Because he felt that he was going to be going to a funeral or memorial.
因为他觉得自己要去参加葬礼或者追悼会。
And are you sleeping OK?
你睡得好吗？
Lynn Simpson Not really.
林恩·辛普森 事实并非如此。
No, not really.
不，不是真的。
I do wake up a lot.
我确实醒了很多次。
And I try and put images out of my mind and go back to sleep.
我试着把脑海中的画面抛到脑后，然后继续睡觉。
But it's hard.
但这很难。
For the first several nights, I would wake up in the middle of the night and just have those images of the Towers in my mind, and the smoke.
在最初的几个晚上，我会在半夜醒来，脑子里只有塔楼的图像和烟雾。
And also, that was when I couldn't get the smell out of my hair.
而且，那时我无法去除头发上的气味。
The very acrid dust smell.
非常刺鼻的灰尘气味。
And I just had to get rid of that smell.
我只需要摆脱那种气味。
And it's a smell that I will never forget.
这是我永远不会忘记的气味。
And it's a smell that's on my clothes.
我衣服上有股味道。
I have the clothes that I was wearing that day-- my shoes, my socks, my slacks, my top.
我有那天穿的衣服——鞋子、袜子、休闲裤、上衣。
Even the little, I wear a little thing in my hair which keeps my hair clipped back.
即使是小孩子，我也会在头发上戴一个小东西，让我的头发向后剪。
And I don't know what to do with them.
我不知道该怎么处理它们。
You still have them?
你还有吗？
Lynn Simpson I still have them.
林恩·辛普森 我还留着它们。
I don't know what to do with them.
我不知道该怎么处理他们。
I don't want to throw them away.
我不想把它们扔掉。
I don't want to have them cleaned.
我不想让他们清理。
Why don't you want to throw them away or have them cleaned?
您为什么不想扔掉它们或将它们清理干净？
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's-- I don't know.
这是——我不知道。
I just can't quite let go of them.
我就是无法完全放开他们。
It is a bunch of trash.
这是一堆垃圾。
But it happened to me, and I survived.
但这发生在我身上，而且我活了下来。
I just know that I have them in a bag and I keep the bag in a little corner.
我只知道我把它们放在一个袋子里，并将袋子放在一个小角落里。
And I will eventually do something with them, because that's clutter, and clutter is not good.
我最终会用它们做一些事情，因为那是混乱，而混乱不好。
But right now, I just can't do that.
但现在，我做不到。
You know, when you talk about the World Trade Center, you do it in the present tense, as if it's still there.
你知道，当你谈论世界贸易中心时，你用的是现在时，就好像它还在那里一样。
You talk about, there is a fountain, you know--
你说，有一个喷泉，你知道——
Yes, yes.
是的，是的。
I know.
我知道。
Ira Glass Do you feel like you fully accept that it really happened, that the buildings aren't there?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：你觉得你完全接受这件事确实发生过，建筑物不在那里吗？
Well, I accept it because I have crossed the George Washington Bridge and seen that they're not there.
好吧，我接受它，因为我已经穿过乔治华盛顿大桥，发现他们不在那里。
That's the reality.
这就是现实。
But no. It's almost-- it's surreal.
但没有。这几乎是超现实的。
It's not real.
这不是真的。
It's hard to believe that it's not there.
很难相信它不存在。
Hard to believe I'm not going to go to work tomorrow.
很难相信我明天不去上班。
So you haven't gone to work in a week and a half, right?
那么你已经一个半星期没有去上班了，对吧？
No. Have not.
不，还没有。
There's no place to go at the moment.
暂时没有地方可去。
The company is going to try and start up again.
该公司将尝试重新启动。
They are leasing space and looking for computers.
他们正在租赁空间并寻找计算机。
Because everything was there in that one office.
因为一切都在那一间办公室里。
All your records, all your billing, everything.
你所有的记录，所有的账单，一切。
Absolutely everything.
绝对是一切。
Ira Glass People owe you money.
艾拉·格拉斯 人们欠你钱。
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass But you have no idea who they are or how much they owe.
Ira Glass 但你不知道他们是谁，也不知道他们欠了多少钱。
That's right.
这是正确的。
That's true.
这是真的。
And we owe people money.
我们还欠人们钱。
And then how does that work?
那么它是如何运作的呢？
Is it some sort of insurance paying for your salary?
这是支付你工资的某种保险吗？
Well, it's two things.
嗯，这是两件事。
They they did receive an insurance payment
他们确实收到了保险金
Your firm?
你的公司？
Lynn Simpson My firm, yep.
林恩·辛普森 我的公司，是的。
And so they are paying people.
所以他们付钱给人们。
The first thing they did was to pay salaries.
他们做的第一件事就是发工资。
And the second thing they did was to tell everybody to go out and buy a computer and a printer, and they're going to get everybody company cell phones.
他们做的第二件事是告诉每个人出去买一台电脑和一台打印机，他们将为每个人提供公司手机。
Because the company-- they're very anxious to get back to work.
因为公司——他们非常渴望重返工作岗位。
And if I could have bought a computer today, I would have gone out to buy one.
如果我今天可以买一台电脑，我就会出去买一台。
But unfortunately, in the New York area, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to find a computer.
但不幸的是，在纽约地区，即使不是不可能，也很难找到一台电脑。
Oh, because all the ones have been bought up by these businesses to restart.
哦,因为都被这些企业收购了,重新启动了。
They've been bought up.
他们已经被收购了。
Every laptop, every desktop has been bought up.
每台笔记本电脑、每台台式机都被买光了。
When do you think you're going to want to go back to work?
您认为您什么时候想回去工作？
Well, I don't know.
嗯，我不知道。
Probably next week or the week after.
可能是下周或者后下周。
When you get up in the morning, do you think, oh wait, go to go somewhere, but you don't know where to go?
当你早上起床时，你是否会想，哦等等，要去某个地方，但你不知道去哪里？
Yeah, I'm a little startled sometimes when I wake up in the morning.
是的，有时候我早上醒来的时候会有点吃惊。
Because I don't set the alarm clock.
因为我不设闹钟。
Are you flying a flag?
你在飘扬旗帜吗？
Lynn Simpson Oh yes.
林恩·辛普森 哦，是的。
And the flags are very heartwarming to see.
看到这些旗帜非常令人心旷神怡。
It just makes me happy.
这让我很开心。
It makes me smile.
这让我微笑。
I was wondering.
我想知道。
When you see a flag, do you feel like it's the rest of us saying to you, you know, you barely made it out and other people's lives are touched in various ways, that we're with you?
当你看到一面旗帜时，你是否觉得这是我们其他人对你说，你知道，你几乎没有成功，其他人的生活以各种方式受到影响，我们与你同在？
Like, our hearts are with you?
就像，我们的心与你同在？
Yes.
是的。
And we're together.
我们在一起了。
Ira Glass And you're actually feeling it that way.
Ira Glass：你确实有这种感觉。
That it's a message from us, to everyone, to you, who just got out, and all the other people whose lives have been touched.
这是我们向所有人、向刚出狱的你以及所有其他生活受到影响的人发出的信息。
Yes.
是的。
I do.
我愿意。
And it's so many lives that have been touched.
还有那么多的生命被触动。
It's a good feeling.
感觉很好。
And it makes me feel as if we're putting aside petty differences and petty things that we all deal with on a day-to-day basis and get annoyed about and are uniting.
这让我觉得我们正在抛开我们每天都要处理的琐碎差异和琐事，并团结起来。
And it's crossing political parties.
而且它跨越政党。
It's crossing religious barriers.
它正在跨越宗教障碍。
It's crossing everything.
它穿越了一切。
And that's everybody working together.
这就是每个人一起工作的结果。
Do you want revenge?
你想报仇吗？
Lynn Simpson No. I think that we, in America, need to understand why America and its way of life is hated so much by so many people.
林恩·辛普森 不。我认为我们在美国需要理解为什么美国及其生活方式被这么多人如此憎恨。
And I think that we need to protect ourselves and our shores and our people before there is retaliation.
我认为，在报复发生之前，我们需要保护我们自己、我们的海岸和我们的人民。
Is there a part of you which feels like, you know, don't do this for me.
你是否有一部分感觉，你知道，不要为我这样做。
Like, I was in that building.
就像，我在那栋楼里。
Don't do it for me.
别为我做这件事。
Yes.
是的。
I feel like-- this was not a personal attack on me.
我觉得——这不是对我的人身攻击。
It was an attack on America.
这是对美国的攻击。
Yeah.
是的。
Well said.
说得好。
Lynn Simpson It's not personal.
林恩·辛普森 这不是针对个人的。
I was an innocent bystander.
我是一个无辜的旁观者。
The people who died were innocent victims.
死者都是无辜的受害者。
And what I'm saying is, we should not go and retaliate against other innocent victims.
我想说的是，我们不应该去报复其他无辜的受害者。
It cannot be indiscriminate bombing of Afghanistan or Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or any of those other places.
它不能是对阿富汗、巴基斯坦、沙特阿拉伯或任何其他地方的不分青红皂白的轰炸。
It cannot be.
不可能。
That is not right.
这是不对的。
That should not be what we do.
那不应该是我们所做的。
Act Two.
第二幕。
Watching From the River's Edge.
从河边观看。
Trying to make sense of what has happened, we have turned for solace and understanding and perspective to look at how people have struggled with other urban disasters.
为了理解所发生的事情，我们开始关注人们如何与其他城市灾难作斗争，以寻求安慰、理解和视角。
One of our regular contributors, David Rakoff, lives in Manhattan, and tells the story of one that touched a neighborhood close to where he lives.
我们的定期撰稿人之一戴维·拉考夫 (David Rakoff) 住在曼哈顿，他讲述了一个感动他居住地附近社区的故事。
Near the north end of Tompkins Square Park in the East Village, a memorial fountain still stands.
在东村汤普金斯广场公园北端附近，仍然矗立着一座纪念喷泉。
Erected by the Sympathy Society of German Ladies, it commemorates the fire aboard the steamship the General Slocum in 1904.
它由德国妇女同情协会 (Sympathy Society of German Ladies) 建造，纪念 1904 年斯洛克姆将军号轮船的火灾。
The conflagration claimed the lives of 1,031 people, mostly women and children from what was then the German immigrant enclave known as Kleindeutschland.
这场大火夺去了 1,031 人的生命，其中大部分是来自当时被称为“小德意志”的德国移民飞地的妇女和儿童。
A sign near the fountain calls the fire "the worst disaster in the history of New York." In the most painful and horrifying example of this great city's capacity to top itself and exceed all previous expectations, the sign will now have to be changed.
喷泉附近的一个标志称这场火灾是“纽约历史上最严重的灾难”。这座伟大的城市有能力超越自己并超越之前的所有预期，这是最痛苦和最可怕的例子，现在必须改变标志。
It was on June 15, 1904, by all accounts a perfect day, that some 1,300 members of St. Mark's Evangelical Lutheran Church boarded the General Slocum at the 3rd Street Pier for their annual summer picnic.
1904 年 6 月 15 日，所有人都认为是完美的一天，圣马可福音派路德教会的约 1,300 名成员登上位于第三街码头的 General Slocum 号，参加一年一度的夏季野餐。
At 9:40 AM, the steamer, named for the Civil War hero Henry J.
上午 9 点 40 分，这艘以内战英雄亨利·J·肯尼迪 (Henry J.
Slocum began on its way, passing under the Brooklyn Bridge, a mere 21 years old at the time, and headed north, up the East River, to a picnic ground on Long Island Sound.
斯洛克姆开始上路，穿过当时只有 21 年历史的布鲁克林大桥，然后向北，沿着东河逆流而上，到达长岛海峡的一个野餐场。
In the days after the disaster, a minute-by-minute account of what happened on the steamboat was pieced together.
灾难发生后的几天里，汽船上发生的事情的详细记录被拼凑起来。
At 9:57 AM, a boy noticed smoke seeping from underneath the door of the lower forward cabin.
上午 9 点 57 分，一名男孩注意到烟雾从下层前舱的门下渗出。
Among the preparations made for the day had been three barrels filled with drinking glasses packed in hay that were stowed there.
当天的准备工作包括三个桶，里面装满了装满干草的水杯，存放在那里。
A discarded match had started them smouldering.
一根被丢弃的火柴让他们开始闷烧。
At 10 AM, an inexperienced deckhand opened the door and the embers burst into flames, which spread through the lower hallways and lounges, triggering the panicked escape of the terrified passengers.
上午10点，一名缺乏经验的甲板水手打开了舱门，余烬突然起火，火焰蔓延到较低的走廊和休息室，引发了惊恐的乘客惊慌失措的逃生。
Another boy ran to tell the captain, William Van Schaick.
另一个男孩跑去告诉船长威廉·范·沙伊克。
"Get the hell out of here and mind your own business," he replied, thinking it a prank.
“滚出去，管好你自己的事吧。”他回答道，认为这是个恶作剧。
He didn't realize it was true until six minutes later, when he looked out his cabin and saw the flames and the burning passengers.
直到六分钟后，当他向舱外望去，看到火焰和燃烧的乘客时，他才意识到这是真的。
By this time it was too late.
这时已经太晚了。
The spanking seaworthiness of the Slocum, newly painted and festooned with bunting and flags, was a fiction.
斯洛克姆号刚刚粉刷一新，挂满了彩旗和旗帜，其卓越的适航性只是虚构的。
The hold was littered with debris.
货舱里散落着碎片。
The crew was new and largely untrained and had never practiced a single fire drill.
船员们都是新人，基本上没有受过训练，也从未进行过一次消防演习。
The fire hose, deployed far too late, was useless anyway, the linen having rotted through and splitting along its length immediately.
消防水带部署得太晚了，无论如何也没有用，亚麻布立即腐烂并沿其长度裂开。
The lifeboats had been painted fast to the railings of the boat, and what life jackets this could be pulled free from the overhead mesh were over 13 years old.
救生艇已经被漆得紧紧地固定在船的栏杆上，而可以从头顶的网格中拉出的救生衣已经有 13 年以上的历史了。
Some tore open like the hose, showering the heads of people with the crumbs of their disintegrated cork filling.
有些像软管一样裂开，碎裂的软木塞碎屑洒在人们的头上。
Other life jackets held together, but they proved lethal.
其他救生衣粘在一起，但事实证明它们是致命的。
A woman dropped her daughter over the side wearing one, only to watch her sink like a stone.
一名妇女把穿着一件衣服的女儿扔到一边，却眼睁睁地看着她像石头一样沉下去。
All was pandemonium.
一切一片混乱。
From the shores of the Bronx and across the river in Queens, people watched, horrified at what was happening just 200 yards away.
从布朗克斯海岸到河对岸的皇后区，人们都在观看，对 200 码外发生的事情感到震惊。
Some swam in to try and save the scores of people who jumped from the vessel, some on fire, some caught up in the ship's paddle wheels.
有些人游进去试图拯救从船上跳下来的数十人，有些人着火了，有些人被船的桨轮卷住了。
The General Slocum fully exploded into flames at 10:06, eventually coming to rest, a burning hulk, on North Brothers island at 10:10.
斯洛克姆将军号于 10 点 06 分完全爆炸并起火，最终于 10 点 10 分在北兄弟岛停泊，成为一座燃烧的废船。
It took less than a quarter of an hour.
只用了不到一刻钟的时间。
Among the 1,031 dead, not one crewman, nor the captain.
1031 名遇难者中，没有一名船员，也没有船长。
There were hundreds of funerals that weekend in Kleindeutschland with miles long processions leading the hearses across the river to the Lutheran cemetery in Queens.
那个周末，小德国举行了数百场葬礼，游行队伍长达数英里，引导灵车过河前往皇后区的路德教会墓地。
The owners of the steamship company were prosecuted and fined.
轮船公司的业主被起诉并处以罚款。
The captain, William Van Schaick, was convicted of negligence and manslaughter and sentenced to ten years in Sing Sing.
船长威廉·范·沙伊克 (William Van Schaick) 因疏忽和过失杀人罪被判在新新监狱服刑十年。
He was paroled after three and a half and pardoned by William Howard Taft on Christmas day of 1911.
三年半后，他被假释，并于 1911 年圣诞节被威廉·霍华德·塔夫脱赦免。
The boat itself was, unbelievably, salvaged and converted into a cargo barge, which finally sank in the storm near Atlantic City that same year.
令人难以置信的是，这艘船本身被打捞并改装成一艘货驳船，最终在同年大西洋城附近的风暴中沉没。
Accounts of the horror of June 15 itself are many.
关于 6 月 15 日本身的恐怖事件的描述有很多。
There is also a well-preserved transcript of the inquest and trial.
还有一份保存完好的调查和审判记录。
By contrast, there are almost no details of the emotional aftermath.
相比之下，几乎没有关于情感后果的细节。
The closest that I could find is a posting on the General Slocum website from a woman named Jacquelin Duffy who writes, "My father's family lived on East 5th Street, and according to him, there was not a tenement on that street that did not have at least one crepe at the doorway."
我能找到的最接近的信息是斯洛克姆将军网站上一位名叫杰奎琳·达菲 (Jacquelin Duffy) 的女士的帖子，她写道：“我父亲的家人住在东五街，据他说，那条街上的所有公寓门口都至少有一块薄饼。”
If the need to speak of calamity is human nature, we are also predisposed to suffering our lasting sorrows in silence.
如果需要谈论灾难是人的本性，那么我们也倾向于默默地承受持久的悲伤。
There is more than one posting on the website about families that never spoke of the day again.
该网站上有不止一个关于家庭的帖子，但他们再也没有谈论过这一天。
How does one articulate the ongoing sadness of after?
如何表达事后持续的悲伤？
An anguish so great that the only recourse for people was to leave forever the buildings and streets that now only held memories of death?
一种如此巨大的痛苦，以至于人们唯一的出路就是永远离开现在只剩下死亡记忆的建筑物和街道？
The articles about the General Slocum almost all end the same way.
关于斯洛克姆将军的文章几乎都是以同样的方式结束的。
That Kleindeutschland was never the same afterwards.
从此之后，小德意志就不再一样了。
That's the term they use.
这是他们使用的术语。
"Never the same." The German community uprooted itself, resettling on the Upper East Side and in Queens.
“从来不一样。”德国社区背井离乡，在上东区和皇后区重新定居。
Some men simply moved back to Germany.
有些人干脆搬回德国。
What seems to have scattered the survivors was despair, not economics.
让幸存者四散的似乎是绝望，而不是经济。
The dead were, for the most part, not breadwinners.
死者大部分都不是养家糊口的人。
They were women, grandparents, and children.
他们是妇女、祖父母和儿童。
Half of the victims were under 20 years old.
一半受害者年龄在20岁以下。
Today there are bedroom communities on Long Island and the New Jersey-- Manhasset, Montclair, Ridgewood, Summit-- that are missing hundreds of parents, neighbors, and friends.
如今，长岛和新泽西州的曼哈塞特、蒙特克莱尔、里奇伍德、萨米特等卧室社区失去了数百名家长、邻居和朋友。
Entire ladder companies of fire stations are gone.
消防局的整个梯连都消失了。
Right now, we New Yorkers are being told that our spirits are not broken.
现在，我们纽约人被告知我们的精神并未崩溃。
That we will rebuild, and we will do it quickly.
我们将重建，而且我们会尽快重建。
We would do well to remember, in this time of stalwart rhetoric, that for some people, rebuilding will be harder.
在这个言辞坚定的时代，我们最好记住，对于某些人来说，重建将更加困难。
It's not for us to say.
这不是我们能说的。
If there is a difference in the immediacy of the experience right now between New York City and the rest of the country, there is a far more profound separation within the city itself.
如果说纽约市和美国其他地方现在的体验的即时性存在差异，那么城市本身内部也存在着更为深刻的分离。
Between the people directly affected by the terror and those not.
在直接受到恐怖影响的人和没有受到恐怖影响的人之间。
I can count myself lucky to be among the latter, essentially untouched and never more superfluous in my adoptive city than right now.
我可以说自己很幸运能属于后者，基本上没有受到影响，而且在我的第二故乡现在比现在更多余。
Beyond donating blood or money, I am of about as much use as a Belgian chocolate.
除了献血或捐钱之外，我的用处就像一块比利时巧克力一样。
The memorial fountain is a nine foot tall slab of pink Tennessee marble, now quite white with age.
纪念喷泉是一块九英尺高的粉红色田纳西大理石板，随着时间的推移，现在已经变得很白了。
In relief are the heads of two children, round-cheeked, angelic in profile, a blossoming branch framing them.
浮雕上是两个孩子的头像，圆脸颊，天使般的轮廓，一根盛开的树枝将他们框住。
"They were earth's purest children, young and fair," it says on the front.
“他们是地球上最纯洁的孩子，年轻而美丽，”它的正面写着。
About three feet off the ground, a marble lion's head shoots forth a stream of drinking water.
离地约三英尺，大理石狮头喷出一股饮用水。
If one didn't work around to the side to read the memorial inscription, which has faded with the years, one might easily mistake this fountain for a municipal nicety, its image of the children and the words about them nothing more than a turn-of-the-century paean to the innocence of childhood, perfectly suited to a park where families might take a stroll.
如果不走到一旁仔细阅读随着岁月的流逝而褪色的纪念碑文，人们很容易会误以为这座喷泉是市政精美的，它的孩子们的形象和有关他们的文字只不过是世纪之交对童年纯真的赞歌，非常适合家庭散步的公园。
There are countless makeshift altars to Tuesday the 11th all over the city.
到十一号星期二为止，全城有无数的临时祭坛。
Clusters of votive candles, flowers, and a heartbreaking, staggering number of fliers with photographs and names of the missing.
一簇簇的许愿蜡烛、鲜花，以及数量惊人、令人心碎的传单，上面有失踪者的照片和名字。
Tompkins Square Park is no exception, but curiously, there is nothing around the fountain.
汤普金斯广场公园也不例外，但奇怪的是，喷泉周围什么也没有。
No one seems to have remembered the fearful symmetry of this spot.
似乎没有人记得这个地方可怕的对称性。
A block away is St. Mark's Lutheran, the church of the Slocum 's victims.
一个街区之外就是圣马可路德教会，即斯洛库姆受害者的教堂。
It is now an Orthodox synagogue, and it is the first day of the Jewish New Year when I walk by.
现在它是一座东正教犹太教堂，我路过的时候正是犹太新年的第一天。
A boy, about eight, runs down the steps and gives a holler.
一个八岁左右的男孩跑下台阶，大声喊叫。
His father comes out after him and calls, "Wait up!" He says it like a schoolyard pal.
他的父亲追了出来，喊道：“等等！”他说得就像校园里的朋友一样。
The boy stops, and his father catches up with him, and they continue down the block.
男孩停了下来，他的父亲追上了他，他们继续沿着街区走下去。
If you didn't know, it would seem like a perfect day.
如果你不知道，这似乎是完美的一天。
But of course, you do know, and cannot imagine a day when you won't.
但当然，你确实知道，而且无法想象有一天你会不知道。
Perhaps the only comfort to be taken in all of this, and it is a cold one, is that such a day will come.
也许在这一切中唯一令人感到安慰的是，这一天终将到来，而且这是一个寒冷的安慰。
Such a day is inevitable.
这样的一天是不可避免的。
David Rakoff in New York.
大卫·拉考夫在纽约。
He's the author of the book Fraud.
他是《欺诈》一书的作者。
On our search for events that might somehow eliminate what we've see in New York this week, the staff of the radio show came across a book by the Japanese fiction writer Haruki Murakami.
在我们寻找可能以某种方式消除我们本周在纽约所看到的事件的过程中，广播节目的工作人员偶然发现了日本小说作家村上春树的一本书。
He went out and interviewed survivors of a terrorist attack that happened in a fantastically crowded city during rush hour just six years ago.
他出去采访了六年前高峰时段在一座极其拥挤的城市发生的恐怖袭击的幸存者。
On March 20, 1995, a radical doomsday cult called Aum Shinrikyo dropped plastic bags of poison gas on the Tokyo subway.
1995年3月20日，一个名为奥姆真理教的激进末日邪教在东京地铁上投下装有毒气的塑料袋。
The kind of gas they used was called sarin.
他们使用的气体被称为沙林毒气。
It is reportedly 26 times as potent as cyanide gas.
据报道，它的威力是氰化物气体的 26 倍。
Over 5,000 people were injured.
超过 5,000 人受伤。
12 died.
12人死亡。
Murakami interviewed dozens of survivors about what happened and how they got on with their lives afterwards.
村上采访了数十名幸存者，了解发生的事情以及他们之后的生活。
The English edition of the book is called Underground: the Tokyo Gas Attack in the Japanese Psyche, and he gave us permission to re portions of it here.
这本书的英文版叫做《地下：日本心灵中的东京毒气袭击》，他允许我们在这里重新翻译其中的部分内容。
You'll hear a number of different voices representing different interviewees.
您会听到代表不同受访者的多种不同声音。
I left the house as usual, just after seven.
七点刚过，我像往常一样离开了家。
But as luck would have it, the bus was about two minutes early.
但幸运的是，公交车提前了大约两分钟。
It was always late, but for once, it was ahead of schedule.
总是迟到，但这一次，却提前了。
I ran for the stop but didn't make it in time, so I had to catch the next bus at 7:30 instead.
我跑向车站，但没能及时赶到，所以只能赶7:30的下一班车。
Looking back, it all started because the bus was two minutes early.
回想起来，这一切都是因为公交车提前两分钟开始的。
I looked up to see this man sitting directly to my left wearing a leather coat.
我抬头看到这个男人坐在我的左边，穿着一件皮大衣。
I was still wrapped up in my book, but it really began to get on my nerves.
我仍然沉浸在我的书里，但它确实开始让我心烦意乱。
Leather coats often smell funny, don't they?
皮大衣通常闻起来很奇怪，不是吗？
A disinfectant or a nail polish remover kind of smell.
消毒剂或洗甲水的味道。
This guy stinks, I thought.
我心想，这家伙真臭。
And I stared him right in the eye.
我直视着他的眼睛。
Only he doesn't seem to be looking at me.
只是他似乎没有看我。
He just stared back at me with this, you've got a problem, mister?
他只是用这样的眼神看着我，你有问题吗，先生？
kind of look.
那种样子。
He's looking past me to something on my right.
他的目光越过我，看向我右边的某个东西。
I turned around to look and saw something about the size of a notebook lying at the feet of the second person on my right.
我回头一看，发现右边第二个人的脚边放着一个笔记本大小的东西。
It's like a plastic pack.
它就像一个塑料包装。
In the news they said it was wrapped in newspaper, but what I saw was plastic, and something spilling out of it.
新闻里说它是用报纸包裹的，但我看到的是塑料的，有东西从里面溢出来。
That's when I got a sharp smell of isopropyl alcohol.
就在那时我闻到了一股刺鼻的异丙醇气味。
We use the stuff for wiping clean the glass in our copiers, so I know it very well.
我们用这种东西来擦拭复印机的玻璃，所以我非常了解它。
I always carry it on the job.
我在工作中总是带着它。
It was somehow syrupy sweet.
不知怎的，它有点甜甜的。
Not unpleasant at all.
一点也不令人不快。
If it had smelled really bad, everyone would have been in a panic.
如果真的闻起来很臭的话，所有人都会惊慌失措。
I felt a strange tickle in my throat.
我感到喉咙里有一种奇怪的痒感。
You know when your dentist gives you anesthetic and it's seeping back into your throat?
你知道当你的牙医给你注射麻醉剂时麻醉剂会渗回你的喉咙吗？
Just like that.
就这样。
So that's what's making the place smell, I thought.
我想，这就是这个地方散发出臭味的原因。
But I still just sat there.
但我还是只是坐在那里。
Soon everyone was saying, open the windows, it stinks.
很快每个人都说，打开窗户，太臭了。
So they all opened the windows.
于是他们都打开了窗户。
I remember thinking, it's so cold.
我记得我当时想，天气好冷啊。
Can't you just put up with the smell?
你就不能忍受这个气味吗？
I stood at the front, next to the driver's compartment, holding the handrail by the door.
我站在前面，靠近驾驶室，握住门边的扶手。
Then when I took a deep breath, I got this sudden pain.
然后当我深呼吸时，我突然感到疼痛。
Really it was like I'd been shot or something.
真的，就像我被枪杀了一样。
All of a sudden my breathing completely stopped.
突然我的呼吸完全停止了。
Like if I inhaled anymore, all of my guts would be spilling right out of my mouth.
就像如果我再吸气一样，我所有的内脏都会从嘴里流出来。
Everything became a vacuum.
一切都变成了真空。
It seems kind of odd, but I thought, just maybe my granddad's died.
这看起来有点奇怪，但我想，也许我的祖父已经死了。
He lived up north and was 94 years old at the time.
他住在北方，当时已经94岁了。
I'd heard he'd been taken ill, so maybe this was a kind of sign.
我听说他病了，所以这也许是一种征兆。
That was my first thought.
这是我的第一个想法。
Maybe he died or something.
也许他死了或者什么的。
Then suddenly I heard a woman scream.
然后突然我听到一个女人的尖叫声。
A loud, piercing squawk like a parrot.
像鹦鹉一样响亮而刺耳的叫声。
At least I think it was a woman.
至少我认为那是个女人。
It came from outside the car.
声音是从车外传来的。
What now?
现在怎么办？
I thought.
我想。
But the platform was so crowded, I couldn't see anything from inside the train.
但站台上太拥挤了，我从车内看不到任何东西。
Suddenly my eyesight went funny, as if I were seeing fireworks or something.
突然我的视线变得奇怪，好像我看到了烟花什么的。
Odd, I thought.
奇怪，我想。
Then ten seconds later, my eyes blacked out totally.
十几秒后，我的眼睛彻底黑了。
It was a bright, clear day, then out of nowhere, this curtain descended and I couldn't see a thing.
那是一个明亮、晴朗的日子，然后窗帘突然降下，我什么也看不见了。
The train went above ground for awhile, and for some reason, the sky was dark, as if it were black and white, or sepia, just like an old photograph.
火车在地面上行驶了一会儿，不知为何，天空一片漆黑，仿佛是黑白的，或者是棕褐色的，就像一张老照片。
That's odd, I thought.
我想这很奇怪。
Today was supposed to be sunny.
今天本来应该是晴天。
My legs started to feel shaky.
我的双腿开始发抖。
My eyes stopped working.
我的眼睛不再工作了。
Suddenly, it was as if night had fallen.
突然，夜幕降临了。
Damn, I thought.
该死，我想。
I should've stayed back there with the others.
我应该和其他人一起呆在后面。
I moved from strapped to strap until I reached the pole near the door.
我从一个绑带移动到另一个绑带，直到到达靠近门的柱子。
Finally I stepped off the train, my hand out ready to catch myself at the far wall of the platform.
最后我走下火车，伸出手准备抓住站台远处的墙壁。
I remember thinking, if I don't make it to the wall and crouch down, I'm going to fall and hit my head.
我记得我当时想，如果我不爬到墙上蹲下来，我就会摔倒并撞到头。
Then I blanked out.
然后我就愣住了。
Actually, I hadn't left the train.
事实上，我并没有离开火车。
I grabbed the stainless steel pole and just slid down to the floor.
我抓住不锈钢杆，就滑到了地板上。
What I thought was a wall was in fact the floor of the car, which felt chilly to my right hand.
我以为是墙，其实是车底，右手感觉冰凉。
They ran a photo of me in the tabloids so I could see later what happened.
他们在小报上刊登了我的照片，以便我稍后可以看到发生的事情。
I couldn't see.
我看不到。
I couldn't run.
我跑不了。
It couldn't have been far, but I tripped on something and fell.
本来应该不远，但我被什么东西绊倒了，摔倒了。
I'm going to die like this, I thought.
我就这样死去吧，我想。
It'd be pathetic to die like this.
就这样死去，未免太可惜了。
When I was six, I nearly drowned swimming in a river, and I remember thinking, saved back then only to go blind and die like this?
我六岁的时候，有一次在河里游泳差点被淹死，我记得当时就想，当年得救了，结果就这样双目失明而死了吗？
I just didn't want to die.
我只是不想死。
Not there.
不在那里。
Not like that.
不是那样的。
I phoned the office to tell them, I have to be hospitalized for I don't know how many days.
我给办公室打电话告诉他们，我要住院不知道几天。
I'm sorry to trouble you.
很抱歉打扰您。
But could you tidy up my desk?
但是你能收拾一下我的桌子吗？
I'd been right at the epicenter.
我当时正处于震中。
But instead of shuddering at the death toll, I felt like I was watching a program on TV.
但我并没有因为死亡人数而感到颤抖，而是感觉自己像是在看电视节目。
As if it were someone else's problem.
就好像这是别人的问题一样。
It was only much later that I began to wonder how I could have been so callous.
直到很久以后，我才开始怀疑自己怎么会如此冷酷无情。
I ought to have been furious, ready to explode.
我当时应该很愤怒，准备爆炸。
It wasn't until the autumn that it really sank in, little by little.
直到秋天，它才一点一点地真正沉下去。
I'd just got back from a ten-day business trip to South America.
我刚从南美出差十天回来。
Strange, you know.
奇怪，你知道。
While I was in South America, I was invited out to karaoke by someone from the Japanese embassy in Colombia.
当我在南美洲时，日本驻哥伦比亚大使馆的人邀请我去卡拉OK。
Then I almost went back the next day to the same place.
然后第二天我几乎又回到同一个地方。
But I said, no, let's try somewhere new.
但我说，不，我们去新的地方试试吧。
And that very day, the place got bombed.
就在那天，这个地方遭到了轰炸。
I remember thinking when I got back home, at least Japan's a safe place.
我记得当我回到家时我就想，至少日本是一个安全的地方。
And the next day I go to work and the gas attack happens.
第二天我去上班，煤气中毒发生了。
What a joke.
真是个笑话。
Afterwards I probably went a little funny in the head.
后来我脑子里可能有点好笑。
I went around telling people, something's out there.
我到处告诉人们，外面有东西。
You'll see.
你会看到的。
Something strange is going to happen.
一些奇怪的事情将会发生。
I was buying survival gear camping stores.
我在野营商店购买救生装备。
After I came back to normal, I thought, what a fool I've been.
当我恢复正常后，我想，我真是个傻瓜。
But at the time, I was deadly serious.
但当时我的态度非常严肃。
Now, what am I going to do with a survival knife?
现在，我要用一把救生刀做什么？
Right after the attack, I was insane with anger.
袭击发生后，我气得发疯。
I was pacing the hospital corners, pounding on the columns and walls.
我在医院的角落里踱步，敲打着柱子和墙壁。
At that point, I still didn't know it was Aum.
那时，我还不知道那是奥姆真理教。
But whoever it was, I was ready to beat them up.
但无论是谁，我都准备好殴打他们。
I didn't even notice, but several days later, my fist was sore.
我什至没有注意到，但几天后，我的拳头开始酸痛。
I asked my wife, why does my hand hurt so much?
我问妻子，为什么我的手这么疼？
And she said, you've been punching things, dear.
她说，亲爱的，你一直在打东西。
Of course I was furious.
我当然很愤怒。
But to tell the truth, stronger than any anger now is the feeling that I just don't want to remember anymore.
但说实话，现在比任何愤怒更强烈的是我不想再回忆的感觉。
Between the time I was hospitalized and the time I was sent home, I wanted to know everything that had happened.
从我住院到被送回家，我想知道发生的一切。
I was devouring the news on TV, but now I can't stand it.
我正在如饥似渴地看电视新闻，但现在我受不了了。
I changed the channel.
我换了频道。
I don't ever want to see another image of the gas attacks.
我再也不想看到毒气袭击的画面了。
The question I hate being asked most of all is, do you have any aftereffects?
我最讨厌被问到的问题是，你有任何后遗症吗？
I just can't bear anyone asking me that.
我只是无法忍受有人问我这个问题。
Although my dislike of being asked if there are aftereffects might itself be a kind of aftereffect.
虽然我不喜欢被问到是否有后遗症，这本身可能就是一种后遗症。
I'd just like to know what the criminals thought they were doing.
我只是想知道犯罪分子认为他们在做什么。
I demand a full explanation and an apology.
我要求一个完整的解释和道歉。
I'd absolutely insist on it.
我绝对会坚持这样做。
I might easily have died there.
我可能很容易就死在那里。
I do you think about that.
我认为你考虑一下。
I'm still nervous going out alone.
我一个人出去还是很紧张。
It's not even whether to take the subway.
甚至都不是要不要坐地铁的问题。
Just to go out walking scares me now.
现在只要出去散步就让我害怕。
I live alone now, but at the time I had a family.
我现在一个人住，但当时我有一个家庭。
A wife and kids.
有妻子和孩子。
Sorry drag out the sordid details.
抱歉，拖出了肮脏的细节。
To be honest, the day after the gas attack, I asked my wife for a divorce.
说实话，毒气发作的第二天，我就向妻子提出了离婚。
We weren't on the best of terms at the time and I'd done my fair share of thinking.
当时我们的关系并不好，但我已经做了我应有的思考。
Still, even after all I'd been through, she would barely speak to me.
尽管如此，即使在我经历了这一切之后，她也几乎不跟我说话。
After being gassed, I phoned home from the office to tell my wife what had happened and my symptoms and everything, but I got almost no reaction from her.
被毒气熏倒后，我从办公室打电话回家，告诉妻子发生了什么事、我的症状以及一切，但她几乎没有任何反应。
Perhaps she couldn't really grasp the situation-- exactly what had occurred.
或许她并不能真正了解情况——究竟发生了什么。
But even so, I knew then that we'd come to a turning point.
但即便如此，我当时就知道我们已经到了一个转折点。
Or else the state I was in had gotten me all worked up.
或者说我现在所处的状态已经让我变得很激动了。
Maybe that's what it was.
也许就是这样。
Maybe that's why I came straight out with it and said, I wanted a divorce.
也许这就是为什么我直接说，我想离婚。
Perhaps if the sarin thing hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been talking about divorce so soon.
或许，如果没有发生沙林毒气事件，我就不会这么快谈论离婚。
I probably wouldn't have said anything.
我可能不会说什么。
It was a shock to the system, and at the same time, a kind of trigger.
这是对系统的冲击，同时也是一种触发。
My family had been in such a mess for so long that by then, I didn't consider myself very important.
我的家庭已经乱了这么久，到那时我已经不认为自己很重要了。
Not that the possibility of dying wasn't real.
这并不是说死亡的可能性不存在。
But had I died, I probably could have accepted it, in my own way, as just a kind of accident.
但如果我死了，我可能会以我自己的方式接受这只是一种意外。
For a while after the gas attack I felt like throwing everything away.
毒气袭击后有一段时间，我想把所有东西都扔掉。
I'm generally good at holding onto things.
我通常善于抓住事物。
I still have my plastic pencil case from elementary school.
我还保留着小学时的塑料铅笔盒。
But I wanted to toss everything out.
但我想把一切都扔掉。
It was like nothing's worthwhile anymore.
就好像一切都不再值得了。
I even felt like giving away my most precious Bonsai.
我什至想把我最珍贵的盆景送给别人。
After the gas attack, I had terrible nightmares.
毒气袭击后，我做了可怕的噩梦。
The one I remember best was a dream in which someone pulled me out of my bed next to the window and dragged me around the room.
我记得最清楚的一个梦是，有人把我从窗边的床上拉起来，拖着我在房间里转来转去。
Or I turned and suddenly saw someone standing there who was supposed to be dead.
或者我转过身，突然看到一个本来应该死了的人站在那里。
Yeah, I often met dead people in my dreams.
是的，我经常在梦中见到死人。
Afterwards I wasn't scared to travel on the subway.
后来我就不再害怕坐地铁了。
No bad dreams, either.
也没有恶梦。
Maybe I'm just dull-witted and thick-skinned.
或许我只是愚钝、脸皮厚而已。
But I do feel it was fate.
但我确实觉得这是命运。
Usually I don't go through the first door nearest the front.
通常我不会走进最靠近前面的第一扇门。
I always use to second, which would put me downwind of the sarin.
我总是习惯第二个，这会让我处于沙林毒气的下风向。
But that day and that day only, I took the first door for no special reason.
但那一天，也只有那一天，我无缘无故地走进了第一扇门。
Pure chance.
纯粹的机会。
Excerpts from Haruki Murakami's interviews with survivors of the Tokyo gas attack collected in his book Underground.
村上春树对东京毒气袭击幸存者的采访节选收录在他的《地下》一书中。
Our readers included Richard Henzel, [?
我们的读者包括理查德·亨泽尔，[？
Scott Jacques, ?] Jennifer Angstrom, Gary Brichetto, Richard Brown, Elizabeth Rich, Evelyn Friedman, Rick Peoples, Todd Bachmann, and Justin Kaufmann.
斯科特·雅克，？]詹妮弗·安斯特罗姆、加里·布里切托、理查德·布朗、伊丽莎白·里奇、伊芙琳·弗里德曼、里克·皮普尔斯、托德·巴赫曼和贾斯汀·考夫曼。
Thanks to Chicago's Steppenwolf Theatre and to Erica Daniels for helping us find the readers.
感谢芝加哥荒原狼剧院和艾丽卡·丹尼尔斯帮助我们找到读者。
Coming up.
即将到来。
David Sedaris writes about the news.
大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 撰文报道了这一消息。
In a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
国际公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose some topic, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that topic.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, stories trying to make sense of things in the aftermath of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, as our country heads towards war.
今天的节目，讲述了在世界贸易中心和五角大楼袭击事件发生后，随着我们的国家走向战争，试图理解事情的真相。
We've arrived at act four our show.
我们的表演已经到了第四幕。
Act Four.
第四幕。
Far From Home.
远离家乡。
David Sedaris lives in Paris, France with his boyfriend Hugh, which is where they've been following the news over the last two weeks.
大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 与男友休 (Hugh) 住在法国巴黎，过去两周他们一直在那里关注新闻。
Living as a foreigner in another country, you learn that your welcome can turn on a single newspaper headline.
作为一个生活在另一个国家的外国人，你知道你的欢迎可以成为报纸的头条新闻。
Like the dollar, public opinion fluctuates between one extreme and another.
与美元一样，公众舆论也在一个极端和另一个极端之间波动。
So when the exchange is good, you try to stock up, knowing that tomorrow, anything could happen.
因此，当交易良好时，你会尝试囤货，因为你知道明天任何事情都可能发生。
Hugh and I recently moved, and in the days following the attacks on New York and Washington, each of our new neighbors came to introduce themselves and offer their sympathy.
休和我最近搬家了，在纽约和华盛顿袭击事件发生后的几天里，我们的每个新邻居都来自我介绍并表示同情。
Are your friends all right?
你的朋友还好吗？
Your family?
你的家人？
Do you need anything?
你需要什么吗？
Shopkeepers heard my accent and sometimes went so far as to touch my hand-- a gesture no less shocking than a full-frontal bear hug.
店主们听到我的口音，有时甚至会触摸我的手——这个动作不亚于正面的熊抱，令人震惊。
Businessmen and widows from the embassy offering their beds to Americans stuck at the airport.
大使馆的商人和寡妇向滞留在机场的美国人提供床位。
And at noon on the official day of mourning, pedestrians stopped in their path and cars pulled off the road to observe the three minutes of silence.
在官方哀悼日的中午，行人停下来，汽车也停在路边默哀三分钟。
I stored it up.
我把它存了起来。
People started leaving flowers in the little park across the street from the American embassy.
人们开始在美国大使馆对面的小公园里献花。
And it was genuine until the TV cameras arrived, at which point it became self-conscious.
在电视摄像机到达之前，它是真实的，此时它变得不自然。
The planes move in, the towers collapse, and people react with heartfelt shock and horror.
飞机飞来，塔楼倒塌，人们的反应是由衷的震惊和恐惧。
You cry because you're sad and frightened, and then, before you know it, the images are repeated in slow motion with the Samuel Barber soundtrack and a close-up photograph of a singed Teddy bear.
你因为悲伤和害怕而哭泣，然后，在你意识到之前，这些图像以慢动作重复播放，塞缪尔·巴伯的配乐和烧焦的泰迪熊的特写照片。
Then you cry because somebody's making you, and you wind up feeling confused and manipulated, like your own feelings weren't quite good enough, and you needed professional help.
然后你会因为有人逼迫你而哭泣，最后你会感到困惑和被操纵，就像你自己的感觉不够好，你需要专业的帮助。
Two days after the attack, my friend Kristin and I attended a service at the American Church.
袭击发生两天后，我和我的朋友克里斯汀参加了美国教堂的仪式。
Unlike the service held the previous afternoon at the American Cathedral, this was a media event, attended by the mayor of Paris, the prime minister, and President Chirac.
与前一天下午在美国大教堂举行的仪式不同，这是一场媒体活动，巴黎市长、总理和希拉克总统出席。
The church was small and half the pews were cordoned off for members of parliament and the American diplomatic corps, who swept in from the rain under heavy security.
教堂很小，一半的长椅都被封锁，供议会成员和美国外交使团使用，他们在严密的安保措施下冒雨涌入。
The line for the rest of us stretched around the corner and down the street, and for every American, there were two journalists with cameras and microphones asking how we felt The instinct was to say that oh, aside from a slight sore throat, you felt pretty good, but of course, you just couldn't.
我们其他人的队伍一直延伸到街角和街道上，对于每个美国人来说，都有两名拿着摄像机和麦克风的记者询问我们的感受。本能地说，哦，除了轻微的喉咙痛之外，你感觉很好，但当然，你就是做不到。
The service was broadcast on television, so although it was an American church, the sermon was delivered in French with short speeches given by a minister, a rabbi, and a Muslim cleric.
该仪式通过电视转播，因此虽然是一座美国教堂，但布道是用法语进行的，由一名牧师、一名拉比和一名穆斯林神职人员发表简短的演讲。
It was all very tasteful, but failed to satisfy the 200 or so Americans who'd come with a sudden desire to be with their people.
这一切都非常有品味，但未能满足大约 200 名突然渴望与自己的人民在一起的美国人。
It's different for visiting tourists, but the Americans who actually live here go to great lengths to avoid one another.
对于来访的游客来说情况有所不同，但真正住在这里的美国人却竭尽全力避免彼此接触。
Now we wanted to hang out and share our emptiness, but it wasn't on the program.
现在我们想出去玩，分享我们的空虚，但它不在节目中。
The service ended, and just as the last politician filed out of the room, a man on the balcony started singing "God Bless America." It's a song I always associated with homeroom and high school sporting events, but under the circumstances, and on foreign soil, the lyrics became significant.
仪式结束，当最后一位政客鱼贯走出房间时，阳台上的一个男人开始唱“上帝保佑美国”。这首歌我总是与班级和高中体育赛事联系在一起，但在当时的情况下，在异国的土地上，歌词变得很重要。
The man started singing, and little by little, the rest of us joined in.
那个人开始唱歌，我们其他人也渐渐地加入了进来。
The couples with bilingual children, the college students, the nannies, and across the aisle, soprano Jessye Norman, who placed her hand over her heart and sang as if she were just a normal shattered woman, rather than an opera star.
那些有双语孩子的夫妇、大学生、保姆，还有走道另一边的女高音杰西·诺曼，她把手放在心上唱歌，就好像她只是一个普通的破碎的女人，而不是歌剧明星。
The thing about "God Bless America" is that after a certain point, nobody seems to know the words.
关于“上帝保佑美国”的事情是，在某一点之后，似乎没有人知道这句话。
"Stand beside her and guide her" is almost always followed by a prolonged mumbling that lasts until we reach the mountains and prairies.
“站在她身边引导她”之后几乎总是伴随着长时间的咕哝，一直持续到我们到达山脉和草原。
Then there's that strange bit about the oceans white with foam, which is odd in that it's not in any way a national phenomenon.
还有一点奇怪的是，海洋上布满了白色的泡沫，这很奇怪，因为这绝不是一个全国性的现象。
Lots of countries have foam.
很多国家都有泡沫。
They just don't talk about it.
他们只是不谈论它。
What killed me-- what killed us all-- was the very end.
杀死我的——杀死我们所有人的——就是结局。
"My home sweet home." Because regardless of what we tell ourselves, Paris is not our home.
“我的家，甜蜜的家。”因为无论我们告诉自己什么，巴黎都不是我们的家。
It's just a place where we have our apartments and furniture.
这只是我们拥有公寓和家具的地方。
If it were our home, we'd have wanted to stay put, rather than catch the next flight back to New York or Kansas or wherever our family sat helpless in front of their televisions.
如果这是我们的家，我们会想留在原地，而不是赶下一趟航班返回纽约或堪萨斯州或我们的家人无助地坐在电视机前的任何地方。
I worry here that in mentioning this moment, I only served to destroy it.
我担心，我提及这一刻，只会破坏它。
To package what had felt genuine and pure.
包装那些感觉真实和纯粹的东西。
The days pass and I can no longer separate what I'm feeling from what I'm watching people feel on TV.
日子一天天过去，我再也无法将自己的感受与我在电视上看到的人们的感受分开。
Am I supposed to cry now?
我现在该哭吗？
Am I supposed to feel proud, to feel pity?
我应该感到自豪、感到怜悯吗？
Everyone I talk to says the same thing.
我交谈过的每个人都说同样的话。
Tell us what to do and we'll do it.
告诉我们该做什么，我们就会去做。
I'm told that in the United States, these loose feelings are being corralled towards retribution.
有人告诉我，在美国，这些松散的情绪正被用来进行报复。
But the French news is different.
但法国的新闻则不同。
It doesn't point you one way or another.
它不会以某种方式向你指出。
Rather, it just fills you up.
相反，它只会让你感到充实。
I'm not seeing Bin Laden on an FBI wanted poster.
我没有在联邦调查局的通缉海报上看到本·拉登。
I'm seeing him smiling amongst this comrades.
我看到他在这些同志中微笑。
And for the first few moments, I'm always mistaking him for Cat Stevens.
在最初的几分钟里，我总是把他误认为是卡特·史蒂文斯。
The BBC has offered exhaustive coverage, but in the absence of breaking news, they, too have brought out their teddy bears.
BBC 提供了详尽的报道，但在没有突发新闻的情况下，他们也拿出了他们的泰迪熊。
I heard that the survivors will need counseling.
我听说幸存者需要咨询。
I heard that the rescue workers will need counseling.
我听说救援人员需要咨询。
And then I heard that even the people who reportedly watched it on TV should consider talking to a professional.
然后我听说，即使是据报道在电视上观看过的人也应该考虑与专业人士交谈。
Now I'm hearing that our politicians need counseling.
现在我听说我们的政客需要咨询。
Although they're constantly surrounded by other people, the experts said, presidents can often feel terribly alone.
专家表示，尽管总统经常被其他人包围，但他们常常会感到非常孤独。
It would be a lot easier if the terrorists sought counseling, but it's not going to happen.
如果恐怖分子寻求咨询会容易得多，但这不会发生。
I don't understand how any of this offers the slightest bit of hope or comfort.
我不明白这一切如何能带来一丝希望或安慰。
But like everything else, I store it up.
但就像其他一切一样，我把它储存起来。
David Sedaris is the author of Me Talk Pretty One Day and other books.
大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 是《Me Talk Pretty One Day》和其他书籍的作者。
Act Five.
第五幕。
USA, Me-SA.
美国，Me-SA。
There's so many flags waved right now.
现在有很多旗帜在飘扬。
But the trouble with the flag is that when it's waved, it can be waved for any of a number of different reasons.
但旗帜的问题在于，当它挥舞时，它可能会因为多种不同的原因而被挥舞。
In the first day or two after the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, it seemed to me that the American flags all were being waved as a kind of act of mourning.
在世贸中心和五角大楼遇袭后的一两天里，在我看来，美国国旗都在飘扬，以示哀悼。
It felt like, OK, we're all in this together.
感觉就像，好吧，我们都在一起。
And then in the days followed, as the president and other figures started to say that there's going to be a war, but without actually laying out any particular plans or details for what that war would be-- waving a flag started to feel like, it started to be like you were giving a red, white, and blue blank check to them to do whatever they wanted.
然后在接下来的几天里，总统和其他人物开始说将会有一场战争，但实际上并没有为这场战争制定任何具体的计划或细节——挥舞旗帜开始感觉就像你给了他们一张红、白、蓝的空白支票，让他们做他们想做的事。
I think, like a lot of people, speaking for myself, anyway, I wanted to hear a plan first before I cheered it on.
我想，就像很多人一样，就我自己而言，无论如何，我想先听听一个计划，然后再为它欢呼。
It made me uneasy, all the flags, because of that.
因此，所有的旗帜都让我感到不安。
I think there's a deeply American ideal of, you know, all of us banding together and doing what has to be done.
我认为美国有一种根深蒂固的理想，那就是我们所有人团结在一起，做必须做的事情。
And then there's an ideal which is exactly the opposite and just as deep as a tradition, which is to be completely skeptical of government and its intentions at all time.
还有一种与传统完全相反、同样根深蒂固的理想，那就是始终对政府及其意图持完全怀疑态度。
And like a lot of other patriotic people, I think I felt torn between the two.
和许多其他爱国者一样，我想我在两者之间感到左右为难。
Now, of course, the president has declared his intentions in his speech before Congress.
当然，现在总统已经在国会演讲中宣布了他的意图。
But the flag still means different things to different people.
但国旗对不同的人来说仍然意味着不同的东西。
A case in point.
一个很好的例子。
Here on Chicago's Southwest Side, every night during the week after the terrorist attacks, hundreds of cars jammed one particular neighborhood, honking and waving flags.
在芝加哥西南区，恐怖袭击发生后一周的每个晚上，数百辆汽车挤满了一个特定的街区，鸣着喇叭，挥舞着旗帜。
Shirley Jahad went down there as part of the news team for WBEZ, The Public Radio station where we do our radio show from.
雪莉·贾哈德 (Shirley Jahad) 作为 WBEZ 新闻团队的一员前往那里，WBEZ 是我们制作广播节目的公共广播电台。
The location where they are right here is right in the midst of one of the biggest Arab-American communities in the region, and it's a block or so away from one of the bigger mosques in the region.
他们所在的位置就在该地区最大的阿拉伯裔美国人社区之一的中间，距离该地区较大的清真寺之一大约一个街区。
The Bridgeview Mosque, yeah.
桥景清真寺，是的。
So it takes on a whole different edge, the shouting of "USA, USA," by virtue of where they are and who they're surrounded by.
因此，它呈现出一种完全不同的边缘，即“美国，美国”的呼喊，因为他们在哪里，周围是谁。
Are there flags?
有旗帜吗？
Shirley Jahad Flags are everywhere.
雪莉·贾哈德 (Shirley Jahad) 旗帜随处可见。
They're waving their flags out the window, they're draped over the back of the cars.
他们在车窗外挥舞着旗帜，旗帜挂在汽车后部。
There's people standing in the streets with these huge flags.
人们拿着这些巨大的旗帜站在街上。
Mostly all these people are youths.
这些人大多数都是年轻人。
You know, young men.
你知道，年轻人。
And so the groups of Arab-Americans are chanting back, "USA, USA.
因此，阿拉伯裔美国人团体正在高喊：“美国，美国。
Yeah!
是啊！
USA USA."
美国美国”。
So each side is chanting USA?
那么双方都在喊美国的口号吗？
Shirley Jahad So at some point, it was as if it were the Sharks and the Jets or something.
雪莉·贾哈德（Shirley Jahad） 所以在某些时候，这就好像是鲨鱼队和喷气机队之类的。
I mean, each side on one side of the street, the Arab-Americans on one side of the street, the Anglo-Americans on the other side, all waving flags and all screaming at the top of their lungs "USA!
我的意思是，街道一侧的每一边，阿拉伯裔美国人在街道的一侧，英裔美国人在另一侧，所有人都挥舞着旗帜，大声尖叫着“美国！
USA!
美国！
USA!" Some people are sort of spitting it, and some people are, you know?
美国！”有些人会吐口水，有些人会吐，你知道吗？
And then there's people driving by in the middle of the street with the flags and the horns.
然后有人举着旗帜、按着喇叭在街道中间行驶。
And they're all chanting the same thing.
他们都在喊着同样的话。
And they're all shouting the same thing.
他们都喊着同样的话。
But they mean something completely different when each of them shouts USA, USA, more or less.
但当他们每个人都或多或少地喊“美国，美国”时，他们的意思完全不同。
They mean completely different things.
它们的含义完全不同。
The white guys, when they're shouting USA, USA, they're basically saying, this is my country, and we want you out of here.
白人，当他们大喊“美国，美国”时，他们基本上是在说，这是我的国家，我们希望你们离开这里。
You get out.
你出去吧。
We're sick of the Arabians being here and we want them out of our country.
我们厌倦了阿拉伯人在这里，我们希望他们离开我们的国家。
Simply put they're screwing everything up, and they're taking all our money.
简而言之，他们把一切都搞砸了，他们拿走了我们所有的钱。
And I think you can see the degradation in the neighborhoods that were once flourishing.
我认为你可以看到曾经繁荣的社区的退化。
So basically this is a message for all the Arabs out there.
所以基本上这是给所有阿拉伯人的信息。
You can just pack up and get your damn towels on the damn plane, right now.
你现在就可以收拾行李并拿上该死的毛巾上该死的飞机。
This was my land before it was theirs.
在成为他们的土地之前，这是我的土地。
I'm not going nowhere.
我哪儿也不去。
What if they were born here?
如果他们出生在这里怎么办？
Man 2 Well, I don't give a [BLEEP] whether they were born here or not.
男人 2 好吧，无论他们是否出生在这里，我都不会发出[哔]声。
Their ancestors weren't born there.
他们的祖先并非出生在那里。
And so that means what?
那么这意味着什么呢？
Man 2 So that means they came here.
男人2 这意味着他们来到了这里。
America let them in.
美国让他们进来了。
And they [BLEEP] bombed the World Trade Center.
他们[BLEEP]轰炸了世界贸易中心。
Did you know my father served in the Korean War and I'm a Palestinian?
你知道我父亲参加过朝鲜战争而我是巴勒斯坦人吗？
Now Shirley, who is this guy?
雪莉，这个人是谁？
Shirley Jahad This is an Arab-American guy, a Palestinian guy, who was leaving the mosque and he drove upon the scene.
雪莉·贾哈德 (Shirley Jahad) 这是一名阿拉伯裔美国人，一名巴勒斯坦人，他正要离开清真寺，然后开车来到了现场。
My grandfather served in World War II.
我的祖父在第二次世界大战中服役。
Can you believe that?
你能相信吗？
We're in 2001.
我们已经是2001年了。
This should not be happening.
这不应该发生。
You know, what was really interesting was the young man who said, you know, this is our country and we want them out of here, moments after he says this to me, he starts-- he continues shouting "USA, USA," and he's waving a flag.
你知道，真正有趣的是那个年轻人说，你知道，这是我们的国家，我们希望他们离开这里，在他对我说这句话后不久，他开始——他继续喊“美国，美国”，并挥舞着旗帜。
And then someone hands them a really, really big flag.
然后有人递给他们一面非常非常大的旗帜。
It's a flag it takes two people to hold.
这是一面需要两个人才能举起的旗帜。
So he's holding one end, and another white guy is holding the other end.
所以他握着一端，另一个白人握着另一端。
But in the crush of the crowd, somehow the other end of the flag gets transferred to another young man, and the other person is an Arab-American.
但在拥挤的人群中，不知何故，旗帜的另一端被转移到了另一个年轻人身上，而另一个人是一名阿拉伯裔美国人。
Now here's the white guy and the Arab-American and they're both holding the same American flag.
现在是白人和阿拉伯裔美国人，他们都拿着同一面美国国旗。
And--
还有——
And is there a moment where they look up and each realize, where the white guy looks up and sees, oh?
有没有一个时刻，他们抬起头，每个人都意识到，白人抬起头，看到了，哦？
Definitely.
确实。
And the white guy is completely at a loss as to what to do, because he's put in this perplexing situation.
而白人完全不知道该怎么办，因为他陷入了这种令人困惑的境地。
He's holding Old Glory, and he can't let go, but he's holding it with an Arab-American.
他握着古老的荣耀，他无法放手，但他握着的是一位阿拉伯裔美国人。
So he starts, like, holding it as if he's holding it with tweezers, like with just two fingers, and now he's trying to pass it off to somebody else.
所以他开始拿着它，就像用镊子拿着它一样，就像只用两根手指一样，现在他试图把它传递给其他人。
He can't drop it.
他不能丢下它。
He can't let go of it.
他不能放手。
Because it's the flag.
因为那是旗帜。
So he's got to hold it.
所以他必须坚持住。
So he holds it, and after a while, they walked together.
于是他握着它，过了一会儿，他们就一起走了过去。
Down the street?
在街上吗？
Shirley Jahad Not for long.
雪莉·贾哈德 不会太久。
But they did walk together, and they actually started a conversation.
但他们确实走在一起，而且还真的开始了交谈。
That conversation being, let go of the flag?
那次对话是，放开旗帜吗？
WBEZ's Shirley Jahad.
WBEZ 的雪莉·贾哈德。
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by our senior producer, Julie Snyder, and myself with Alex Blumberg, Wendy Dorr, Jonathan Goldstein, and Starlee Kine.
感谢 Ira Glass 嗯，我们的节目今天由我们的高级制片人 Julie Snyder 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Wendy Dorr、Jonathan Goldstein 和 Starlee Kine 制作。
Contributing editors Susan Burton, Rebecca Carroll, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin and Alix Spiegel, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] Nancy Updike and consigliere Sarah Vowell.
特约编辑 Susan Burton、Rebecca Carroll、Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin 和 Alix Spiegel、[无法辨认]Nancy Updike 和顾问 Sarah Vowell。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Diane Cook.
托德·巴赫曼 (Todd Bachmann) 和黛安·库克 (Diane Cook) 为制作提供帮助。
Musical help for Mr. John Connors and Mr. Steve Cushing.
为约翰·康纳斯先生和史蒂夫·库欣先生提供音乐帮助。
Hi, Steve.
嗨，史蒂夫。
[ACKNOWLEDGMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站：www.thisamericanlife.org。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who this week is mute.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 负责监督，他本周保持沉默。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。