182: Cringe - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #182 | May 26, 2006 182: Cringe Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 182 集 | 2006 年 5 月 26 日 182：畏缩 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Joe worked at this office where every now and then, the office manager would bring her nine-year-old to work.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯·乔在这间办公室工作，办公室经理时不时地会带着她九岁的孩子去上班。
Good kid, kind of tomboyish.
好孩子，有点假小子。
And she would just help out around the office.
她只会在办公室帮忙。
She would pass mail out.
她会传递邮件。
And over the time that I was there, she and I developed this kind of teasing relationship.
在我在那里的那段时间里，我和她建立了这种戏弄的关系。
She would come into my office, and she would drop my mail off and stick her tongue out at me.
她会走进我的办公室，把我的邮件交给我，并对我伸出舌头。
And I would fake chase her down the hallway or something.
我会假装沿着走廊追她什么的。
That's sweet.
太甜了。
Joe Yeah, yeah.
乔 是的，是的。
She was an incredibly sweet kid.
她是一个非常可爱的孩子。
And so there's this day when it's early in the morning.
于是就有了这一天，清晨。
I've arrived at the office.
我已经到办公室了。
And I go into the bathroom.
我走进浴室。
And when I come out of the bathroom, I have my glasses in my shirt pocket, rather than on my head.
当我从浴室出来时，我的眼镜放在衬衫口袋里，而不是戴在头上。
And I look down this hallway and I see this small person walking towards me.
我沿着走廊往下看，看到这个小个子向我走来。
And I then get down and start to crab walk towards her.
然后我蹲下来，开始螃蟹般地朝她走去。
So I go down on my haunches and put my hands up as if they're claws and waddle towards her.
于是我蹲下来，举起双手，就像它们是爪子一样，摇摇晃晃地走向她。
And as I'm waddling towards her, I say, in this kind of creepy voice, "Oh, no, I can't believe you're here today." And then, at that moment, as I say "today," she comes into focus.
当我摇摇晃晃地走向她时，我用一种令人毛骨悚然的声音说：“哦，不，我不敢相信你今天在这里。”然后，在那一刻，正如我所说的“今天”，她成为焦点。
And I realize, in fact, it's not at all the young girl who I thought it was.
我意识到，事实上，她根本不是我想象的那个年轻女孩。
But it's in fact, one of our interns, a business intern who is a midget.
但事实上，我们的一名实习生，一名商业实习生，是个侏儒。
And so she comes into focus.
于是她就成为了焦点。
And I see her.
我看到了她。
And I'm horrified.
我很害怕。
And I go bolt upright.
然后我就直立起来。
And I stand up, and I say, "Oh my god.
我站起来，说道：“天哪。
I'm terribly sorry.
我非常抱歉。
I thought you were somebody else."
我还以为你是别人呢。”
And I think to myself, "Who could she possibly think that somebody else is?" And I wondered at the time, should I have tried to explain it to her?
我心里想，“她可能认为别人是谁？”当时我就想，我是否应该向她解释一下？
And it seems to me like one of those situations where it only gets worse the more you try to explain it.
在我看来，这就像一种情况，你越试图解释它，事情只会变得更糟。
The only thing I could do was, in fact, apologize and then end all contact with her forever, right there.
事实上，我唯一能做的就是道歉，然后永远结束与她的所有联系。
Joe says the woman was utterly gracious.
乔说这个女人非常和蔼可亲。
She introduces herself.
她自我介绍。
She tries to put him at ease.
她试图让他放松。
But Joe says, not only did he cringe when this happened, he cringes every single time he tells this story.
但乔说，他不仅在这件事发生时感到畏缩，而且每次讲述这个故事时他都感到畏缩。
People cringe when they hear this story.
人们听到这个故事时都会感到畏缩。
And why?
为什么？
Seriously, why?
说真的，为什么？
What is it about certain stories that get this physical reaction out of us?
某些故事为何能让我们产生这种身体反应？
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
What are the physical reactions we ever actually give a story?
我们实际上讲故事时的身体反应是什么？
There's laughing.
有笑声。
There's crying.
有哭声。
There's cringing?
有畏缩吗？
It's in the top three?
是不是进前三了？
Well, this week on our radio show, This American Life, we have looked into this matter.
好吧，本周在我们的广播节目《美国生活》中，我们调查了此事。
And I have to say, if there is scientific literature specifically on the physiology or psychology of cringing, we and many helpful doctors and researchers were unable to find it.
我不得不说，如果有专门关于畏缩的生理学或心理学的科学文献，我们和许多乐于助人的医生和研究人员都无法找到它。
But from examining a wide array of cringe stories, we have made some tentative conclusions about what it is that makes us cringe.
但通过研究一系列令人畏缩的故事，我们对是什么让我们感到畏缩得出了一些初步结论。
Consider please, Howie's story.
请考虑一下豪伊的故事。
It was his sixth grade graduation dance.
这是他六年级的毕业舞会。
There had been one teacher, Mrs. S, who had been really cruel to him all year long.
曾经有一位老师，S老师，一整年对他都很残酷。
He was chubby, and she used to examine his papers for food stains, which then she would hold up and show the entire class.
他很胖，她常常检查他的试卷上是否有食物污渍，然后她会把试卷举起来给全班同学看。
She'd mock him in front of class up to the day of the graduation dance.
直到毕业舞会那天，她都会在课堂上嘲笑他。
As we're in line, she's like, "OK, you're all going to high school.
当我们排队时，她说：“好吧，你们都要上高中了。
I want you to be good." And then she kind of stops.
我希望你一切都好。”然后她停了下来。
And she says, "Well, I don't know if we're all going to high school." She goes, "I don't know.
她说：“好吧，我不知道我们是否都会上高中。”她说：“我不知道。
What do you think, kids?
孩子们，你们觉得怎么样？
You think Howard should pass?"
你认为霍华德应该通过吗？”
And then all the sudden, my heart dropped into my stomach.
然后突然间，我的心掉到了肚子里。
"What do you mean, ma'am?" "Yeah, yeah, let him pass.
“您是什么意思，女士？” “是啊是啊，让他过去吧。
Let him pass." "I don't know.
让他过去吧。” “我不知道。
I don't know if we should let Howard pass.
我不知道我们是否应该让霍华德通过。
It's up to you kids.
这取决于你们孩子们。
It's up to you.
这取决于你。
Should Howard pass?" "Yes, yes." "Should he pass?" "Yes, yes." "I don't know."
霍华德应该通过吗？” “是的，是的。” “他应该过去吗？” “是的，是的。” “我不知道。”
That was humiliating, but that is not the part of the story that makes him cringe.
这是一种耻辱，但这并不是故事中让他感到畏缩的部分。
The cringe part happens when, dressed in his best Saturday Night Fever tight pants and polyester shirt, he takes matters into his own hands.
当他穿着他最好的《周六夜狂热》紧身裤和涤纶衬衫，将事情掌握在自己手中时，就发生了令人畏缩的部分。
He takes action.
他采取行动。
At the end of the dance, relieved that he is, in fact, graduating, he finds her in the teachers' lounge.
舞会结束后，他在教师休息室找到了她，他松了口气，因为自己实际上已经毕业了。
So I walk in.
所以我走进去。
I'm feeling good.
我感觉很好。
I'm smiling.
我在微笑。
I'm strutting around in my John Travolta clothes.
我穿着约翰特拉沃尔塔的衣服大摇大摆地走来走去。
I grab my jacket.
我抓起我的夹克。
And picture this really sweaty, fat little kid, clothes plastered to his body.
想象一下这个大汗淋漓、肥胖的小孩子，衣服贴在他的身上。
Mrs. S, who'd been so cruel, is standing with another Mrs. S, the French teacher.
如此残忍的S女士正和另一位法语老师S女士站在一起。
I basically bowed to the French teacher.
我基本上向法语老师鞠躬。
And I said, "Enchantee, Madame S." And then I looked at the other Mrs. S., and I went, "Thank you so much, Mrs. S." And I took a deep bow.
我说：“S 女士，太迷人了。”然后我看着另一位 S 女士，说道：“非常感谢你，S 女士。”我深深鞠了一躬。
I actually waved my arm underneath my waist, bowing deep to my knees, you know, getting up, flipping my jacket with one finger over my shoulder and going a Jackson 5 spin around, and strutted out, thinking I was the coolest.
事实上，我在腰下挥动手臂，深深地鞠躬到膝盖，你知道，站起来，用一根手指将夹克翻到肩膀上，然后旋转着 Jackson 5，然后大摇大摆地走了出去，认为我是最酷的。
I remember that when I bowed, and I said "Enchantee," and all this, I remember their faces.
我记得当我鞠躬并说“Enchantee”时，我记得他们的脸。
And they were disgusted.
他们很厌恶。
There wasn't a smile.
没有笑容。
There wasn't some kind of, "Oh, thank you, Howard." It was basically silence, this stern, down-at-the-mouth like, uugh.
没有某种“哦，谢谢你，霍华德”之类的话。基本上就是沉默，严肃、低声下气，呃。
The things that she did to him were just humiliating, he says.
他说，她对他所做的事情简直就是耻辱。
It was the fact that he decided to thank her for it.
事实上，他决定为此感谢她。
That's what makes him cringe.
这就是让他畏缩的原因。
And that seems to be true of a lot of cringe stories.
许多令人畏缩的故事似乎都是如此。
The people in them go out of their way to embarrass themselves.
他们里面的人不遗余力地让自己难堪。
In Joe's case, to get back to the guy crab walking in the office, if he had just come out of the men's room with his fly open, for example, that would've been embarrassing.
就乔的情况而言，回到在办公室里行走的螃蟹，例如，如果他刚从男洗手间出来，门襟打开，那就会很尴尬。
But he went further.
但他走得更远。
He made a special effort.
他做出了特别的努力。
A part of him was proud that he was the one adult in the office cool enough to goof around with a little kid.
他内心的一部分感到自豪，因为他是办公室里唯一一个足够冷静、可以和一个小孩一起闲逛的成年人。
And pride, my friend, goeth before a cringe.
我的朋友，骄傲先于畏缩。
You know, you're in your office.
你知道，你在办公室。
And then suddenly, you're just like, "You know, I'm in a pretty good mood today.
然后突然间，你就会说：“你知道，我今天心情很好。
And I'm ready to goof around a little.
我已经准备好闲逛了。
I'm going to crouch down by these mailboxes, and I'm going to walk like a crab towards her down the hallway.
我要蹲在这些邮箱旁边，然后像螃蟹一样沿着走廊朝她走去。
This is a stuffy place full of stuffy people, and I'm still a pretty fun guy."
这是一个闷热的地方，到处都是闷闷不乐的人，但我仍然是一个非常有趣的人。”
You cringe in that moment of revelation, when you suddenly see that maybe you are not the fun guy, when you see yourself as others see you.
当你突然发现自己可能不是一个有趣的人，当你以别人看待你的方式看待自己时，你会在启示的那一刻感到畏缩。
And it is not pretty.
而且它并不漂亮。
One of the doctors that we talked to about cringes for this week's show pointed out that a cringe is basically the human body cowering in fear for an instant.
我们在本周的节目中谈到了畏缩的一位医生指出，畏缩基本上是人体因恐惧而瞬间畏缩。
And he said that one of the most fearsome, stressful things that we can encounter as people is the thought that we are not who we think we are, the thought that the world sees us differently than we see ourselves, and not in a good way.
他说，作为人，我们可能遇到的最可怕、最有压力的事情之一就是认为我们不是自己想象的那样，认为世界对我们的看法与我们对自己的看法不同，而且不是以一种好的方式。
Well, our program today, as always from WBEZ Chicago, distributed by Public Radio International.
好吧，我们今天的节目一如既往地来自芝加哥 WBEZ，由国际公共广播电台发行。
Today on our show, an investigation into stories that make us cringe.
今天在我们的节目中，我们将对那些让我们感到畏缩的故事进行调查。
Act One, What We Cringe About When We Cringe About Love.
第一幕，当我们对爱感到畏缩时，我们对什么感到畏缩。
Nancy Updike explains the peculiar characteristics of a cringe love affair.
南希·厄普代克解释了令人畏惧的爱情的独特特征。
Act Two, M*A*S*H Notes, in which I tell a story from my past that I actually spent two decades trying to forget about a week that I had back in 1979 on the set of a television show.
第二幕，M*A*S*H Notes，其中我讲述了一个我过去的故事，我实际上花了二十年的时间试图忘记 1979 年在电视节目片场度过的一周。
Also in that story, why I hope to never run into Alan Alda on the street.
也在那个故事中，为什么我希望永远不会在街上遇到艾伦·阿尔达。
Act Three, Ariel Sharon, Shimon Peres, David Ben-Gurion and Me, the story of one teenager's cringeworthy dream, to become prime minister of a nation in which he does not even reside.
第三幕，阿里尔·沙龙、西蒙·佩雷斯、大卫·本·古里安和我，讲述了一个青少年的令人畏惧的梦想，即成为一个他根本不居住的国家的总理。
Act Four, Cringe and Purge.
第四幕，畏缩与净化。
We have a story from Bruce Jay Friedman about a man who tries to rid himself of a decades-old cringe, if that is really possible.
我们有一个布鲁斯·杰·弗里德曼的故事，讲的是一个男人试图摆脱几十年来的畏缩情绪，如果这真的可能的话。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, What We Cringe About When We Cringe About Love.
第一幕，当我们对爱感到畏缩时，我们对什么感到畏缩。
If cringing is basically shrinking from something dangerous or painful, what could be more potentially dangerous and painful than love?
如果畏缩基本上是对危险或痛苦的事情感到退缩，那么还有什么比爱更具潜在的危险和痛苦呢？
Nancy Updike has this report on the characteristics and bylaws of cringe love.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）有一份关于畏缩爱情的特征和章程的报告。
A cringe love story always starts with a one-liner.
一段令人尴尬的爱情故事总是以一句俏皮话开始。
went out with a guy whose role models were Jean Genet and Clint Eastwood.
和一个以让·热内和克林特·伊斯特伍德为榜样的人约会。
I once went out with this alcoholic.
我曾经和这个酒鬼出去过。
And I guess I just didn't realize he was an alcoholic, because he was doing so much cocaine at the time.
我想我只是没有意识到他是个酒鬼，因为他当时吸食了很多可卡因。
I once dated a guy who, three months after we broke up, slept with both his stepmother and his stepsister.
我曾经约会过一个男人，我们分手三个月后，他和他的继母和继姐妹都睡了。
You probably notice these are all women.
您可能注意到这些都是女性。
That's because cringe love stories are usually embarrassing.
那是因为令人畏缩的爱情故事通常令人尴尬。
And I'm generalizing here, but in my experience, women like telling embarrassing love stories.
我在这里进行概括，但根据我的经验，女人喜欢讲述令人尴尬的爱情故事。
We bond over them.
我们对他们有感情。
We like to one-up each other.
我们喜欢互相比拼。
"You did that for love?
“你是为了爱情才这么做的？
Well, I did this."
嗯，我就是这么做的。”
And while I'm generalizing, let me also say that as far as I can tell, the most common cringe love story is the kind that takes place in your early 20s with a guy not that much older.
虽然我只是一概而论，但我也要说，据我所知，最常见的令人畏惧的爱情故事是发生在 20 岁出头的时候，与一个年龄不那么大的男人发生的故事。
And you are new at love.
而你对爱情还是新手。
It's not your first relationship.
这不是你的第一段关系。
But everything about your romantic self still feels on loan from somewhere else-- movies, rumors, your friends.
但关于你浪漫的自我的一切仍然感觉像是从其他地方借来的——电影、谣言、你的朋友。
You don't quite know who you are yet when it comes to love because you're still becoming that person.
当谈到爱情时，你还不太清楚自己是谁，因为你仍然在成为那个人。
And everything these early 20s cringe love stories have to teach us, we can learn from a woman from Texas named Julie.
这些 20 岁出头的令人畏惧的爱情故事所教给我们的一切，我们都可以从德克萨斯州一位名叫朱莉 (Julie) 的女人身上学到。
I once went out with a guy who, while we were dating, joined the Hare Krishnas.
我曾经和一个男人约会，我们约会时他加入了哈瑞克里希纳组织。
So how did he tell you this?
那么他是怎么告诉你这些的呢？
Julie Well, we started going to Prasadam, which is this thing the Krishnas do on Sundays.
朱莉：好吧，我们开始去普拉萨达姆，这是克里希纳教徒周日所做的事情。
They have this big feast.
他们举办了这场盛大的盛宴。
And basically, it was a way to get free food.
基本上，这是获得免费食物的一种方式。
Free food is very important in this story.
在这个故事中，免费食物非常重要。
The reason is that Julie's boyfriend was a squatter.
原因是朱莉的男朋友是一个占屋者。
Do you know what that is?
你知道那是什么吗？
For years, in cities all over the country, people have been taking over abandoned buildings and living in them, squatting.
多年来，在全国各地的城市里，人们一直在接管废弃的建筑，蹲在里面居住。
People do it for a lot of reasons, anti-corporate idealism, adventure, lack of interest in getting a job.
人们这样做的原因有很多，比如反企业理想主义、冒险、对找工作缺乏兴趣等。
Julie's boyfriend was a middle-class kid from New York who, when they met, was squatting in an abandoned warehouse in Austin, Texas, bartering, hitchhiking, and keeping an eye out for free food.
朱莉的男朋友是一位来自纽约的中产阶级孩子，他们相遇时，他正蹲在德克萨斯州奥斯汀的一个废弃仓库里，以物易物、搭便车，并留意免费食物。
Julie, at the time, lived in an air-conditioned apartment and drove an Oldsmobile.
当时，朱莉住在一套空调公寓里，开着一辆奥兹莫比尔。
She was in her last year of college.
她正在读大学的最后一年。
We used to go around whenever I wanted pizza.
每当我想吃披萨时，我们就到处走走。
We couldn't order pizza.
我们无法订购披萨。
We had to go to all the pizza places and ask for mistakes, because he didn't believe in paying for anything.
我们不得不去所有的披萨店并询问错误，因为他不相信支付任何费用。
And he used to say that when we did that, that I couldn't go in because I looked too much like a sorority girl, which I'm not.
他常说，当我们这样做时，我不能进去，因为我看起来太像联谊会的女孩，但我不是。
But he said I looked like one.
但他说我看起来像一个。
So squatter guy meets college girl.
所以擅自占地者遇到了女大学生。
A princess, he'd call her.
公主，他会这样称呼她。
And they fall in love during an AIDS outreach workshop.
他们在艾滋病外展研讨会上坠入爱河。
A lot of cringe love stories take this form, living on the edge guy meets suburban girl.
很多令人畏缩的爱情故事都采用这种形式，生活在边缘的男人遇到了郊区的女孩。
They move in together to her bourgeois apartment.
他们一起搬进了她的资产阶级公寓。
He takes her on midnight bike rides.
他带她半夜骑自行车。
She buys him dinner in real restaurants.
她在真正的餐馆给他请晚餐。
He spare-changes on the corner to take them out for ice cream.
他在街角留下零钱，带他们出去吃冰淇淋。
And every week, they go to Prasadam to get a free vegetarian meal from the Hare Krishnas.
每周，他们都会去 Prasadam 从 Hare Krishnas 那里获得免费的素食餐。
And then one day, he came home after Prasadam.
然后有一天，他在普拉萨达姆之后回家。
And he said he thought he'd like to go to classes in the morning.
他说他想早上去上课。
They had classes where you could learn more about Krishna consciousness.
他们开设课程，让你可以更多地了解奎师那知觉。
And I said that that was cool.
我说那很酷。
I wasn't really interested in it.
我对此并不感兴趣。
So he started going to classes.
于是他开始去上课。
That's how it started.
事情就是这样开始的。
Then he came home, and he wanted me to shave his head, which wan't that big of a deal.
然后他回到家，要我给他剃光头，这没什么大不了的。
I thought it was actually kind of cute.
我觉得这实际上有点可爱。
But then he came home and he had the gear.
但当他回到家后，他就拥有了装备。
He had this long, white sheath they call a dhoti.
他有一件长长的白色鞘，他们称之为“腰布”。
And he told me he was going to start wearing that.
他告诉我他要开始穿那件衣服。
And that's when I started feeling kind of weird about it.
就在那时我开始感到有点奇怪。
We started fighting because he had this new belief system.
我们开始争吵是因为他有这个新的信仰体系。
He'd become totally vegan.
他已经完全成为素食主义者了。
So we couldn't go to our favorite restaurants because, well, not only was it that he was vegan, but he couldn't go to a place where he didn't know what the the emotions of the cook were.
所以我们不能去我们最喜欢的餐馆，因为，嗯，不仅因为他是素食主义者，而且他不能去一个他不知道厨师情绪的地方。
Like if they were angry, that would get into the food.
就像如果他们生气的话，愤怒就会进入食物中。
These were all things he'd picked up in Krishna consciousness.
这些都是他在奎师那知觉中捡到的东西。
Every relationship that doesn't work out has some problem that can't be solved.
每段不成功的关系都会有一些无法解决的问题。
With cringe love, it's an embarrassing problem.
对于畏缩的爱情，这是一个令人尴尬的问题。
And looking back, it's not just the problem that makes you cringe.
回想起来，让你畏缩的不仅仅是问题。
It's how long the relationship continued after this problem could not have been more clear, not only to you, but also to all your friends.
这是在这个问题变得再清楚不过之后，关系持续了多久，不仅对你来说，而且对你所有的朋友来说。
That is, if you weren't hiding it from them.
也就是说，如果你没有向他们隐瞒的话。
And all of this was a secret from all of my friends.
所有这一切对我所有的朋友来说都是秘密。
I didn't tell any of them anything.
我没有告诉他们任何人任何事情。
But one day I came home, and I had a friend over.
但有一天我回到家，有一位朋友过来。
And John was there.
约翰也在场。
And I walked in, and my whole living room smelled of incense.
我走进去，整个客厅都充满了熏香的味道。
And he'd turned my bookshelf into a shrine to Swami Prabhupada.
他把我的书架变成了斯瓦米·帕布帕德的圣殿。
There was this big picture.
有这样一幅大图。
There was candles.
有蜡烛。
There was scarves.
有围巾。
And I said, "Honey, who's that?" And he said, "That's Swami Prabhupada." And I'm like, OK.
我说：“亲爱的，那是谁？”他说：“那是斯瓦米·帕布帕德。”我想，好吧。
And he said, "Do you want me to take him down?" and gets defensive right away.
他说：“你想让我把他打倒吗？”并立即进行防守。
And I'm like, "No, that's cool.
我说：“不，那很酷。
I was just wondering who there is a shrine to in my living room."
我只是想知道我的客厅里有一座供奉谁的神龛。”
So then later, my friend left.
后来，我的朋友就离开了。
And we just had this huge, huge fight.
我们刚刚经历了一场非常非常激烈的战斗。
And it started because he had these beads.
事情开始是因为他有这些珠子。
And he'd gotten me these beads.
他给了我这些珠子。
And the Krishnas have these-- kind of like a rosary.
克里希纳教徒有这些——有点像念珠。
But it's about 20 beads, and you're supposed to repeat this mantra.
但大约有 20 颗珠子，你应该重复这个咒语。
It's out of Hair.
已经没头发了
"Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare."
“哈瑞·奎师那，哈瑞·奎师那，奎师那，奎师那，哈瑞，哈瑞。”
You're supposed to repeat it 20 times.
你应该重复20次。
So you do it 400 times a day.
所以你每天做400次。
So he's decided that if I do this, that I'll be happy, that all this anger I'm having is because I'm not chanting Hare Krishna and being happy.
所以他决定，如果我这样做，我就会快乐，我所有的愤怒都是因为我没有念诵哈瑞奎师那并感到快乐。
So I take these beads.
所以我拿走了这些珠子。
And I'm like, "I'm not going to do this." And he said, "Why not?
我想，“我不会这样做。”他说：“为什么不呢？
Why won't you worship Krishna?"
你为什么不崇拜奎师那？”
This is the moment every cringe relationship comes down to in the end, the point where one person turns to the other and asks a question like--
这是每一种令人畏缩的关系最终都会归结为这一时刻的时刻，一个人转向另一个人并问一个问题，比如——
"Why not?
“为什么不呢？
Why won't you worship Krishna?"
你为什么不崇拜奎师那？”
That's because at the heart of the cringe is a fundamental disagreement in the way you see the world.
这是因为畏缩的核心是你看待世界的方式存在根本分歧。
He's Montague.
他是蒙塔古。
You're Capulet.
你是凯普莱特。
He's 60 Minutes.
他的时间是 60 分钟。
You're Felicity.
你是费莉西蒂。
He's potato.
他是土豆。
You're po-tah-to, but you just can't call the whole thing off.
你是个po-tah-to，但你就是不能取消整件事。
Because on paper, the relationship seemed so romantic.
因为从纸面上看，这段关系看起来非常浪漫。
The very things that make you cringe looking back, at the time were just challenges on the path to love, and not just any love, the best kind-- impossible love.
那些让你回想起来感到畏缩的事情，当时只是爱情路上的挑战，而不是任何爱情，最好的一种——不可能的爱情。
There was a point where I wanted to go to law school.
曾经有一段时间我想去法学院。
And we were talking about moving to San Francisco.
我们正在谈论搬到旧金山。
And I would go to Boalt, and he would hang out at the airport.
我会去博尔特，他会在机场闲逛。
Wait a minute, you would go where, and he would go to the airport?
等一下，你会去哪里，而他会去机场？
Boalt, the law school at Berkeley is called Boalt.
博尔特，伯克利的法学院就叫博尔特。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
And he would go to the airport.
他会去机场。
I don't understand.
我不明白。
Right.
正确的。
Julie laughs when she tells this now.
朱莉现在说起这件事时笑了。
She knows this story is one of the funniest things that's ever happened to her, and she loves telling it.
她知道这个故事是她经历过的最有趣的事情之一，她喜欢讲这个故事。
She savors every absurdity in the story, and every absurd turn within every absurdity.
她品味故事中的每一个荒谬，以及每一个荒谬中的每一个荒谬转折。
But when I talked to her a few days after our interview, she said, "You know, it's the weirdest thing.
但当我在采访几天后与她交谈时，她说：“你知道，这是最奇怪的事情。
After we talked that night, I went home and cried."
那天晚上我们聊完之后，我就回家哭了。”
For Julie, this relationship was the first time she fell in love.
对于朱莉来说，这段感情是她第一次恋爱。
John was different from anyone else she'd ever known.
约翰与她认识的任何人都不一样。
When she had to go out of town the first week after they met, she thought about him every minute.
他们见面后的第一周，当她不得不出城时，她每分钟都在想着他。
And when I got back, he'd sent me cards from every place in Austin, with my name in them, or with a poem about me in them.
当我回来时，他从奥斯汀的每个地方给我寄来卡片，上面写着我的名字，或者写着一首关于我的诗。
He just pursued me.
他只是追求我。
And he was just really romantic and exciting.
他真的很浪漫而且令人兴奋。
Like, we did not go out for movie and a dinner ever, I think, the whole time we dated.
就像，我想，在我们约会的整个过程中，我们从来没有出去看过电影和晚餐。
Not that that's not nice-- that's great and everything.
并不是说这不好——这一切都很棒。
But I remember, he wrote me this card from when he went on the hitchhiking trip.
但我记得，这张卡片是他搭便车时给我写的。
And he took a picture of me with him.
他还给我和他拍了一张照片。
And the postcard said, "Hey, cheesecake, thanks for the cheesecake pic." He said, "I show it around to the other guys on the--" he was actually train-hopping at that point, "--on the train." And he says, "It solicits envious grunts of approval.
明信片上写着：“嘿，芝士蛋糕，谢谢你的芝士蛋糕照片。”他说，“我把它展示给其他人看——”当时他实际上正在跳火车，“——在火车上。”他说：“它会引起羡慕的赞同声。
But no one says anything boring, like 'she's beautiful.'" And I just thought, who would write love letters like this?
但没有人说任何无聊的话，比如‘她很漂亮’。”我只是想，谁会写这样的情书呢？
She's reciting these lines from the postcard from memory.
她正在背诵明信片上的这些台词。
It's the only love letter she's kept as she's moved from place to place.
这是她从一个地方搬到另一个地方时保留的唯一一封情书。
But then, that's part of it.
但那是其中的一部分。
Her love for him is part of what she's cringing about when she looks back.
当她回首往事时，她对他的爱是她感到畏缩的一部分。
What's the part of the story where you cringe most and just think, "Ugh, why did I do that?"
故事的哪一部分让你最感到畏缩，然后想：“呃，我为什么要这么做？”
Remember the dhoti?
还记得腰布吗？
That's that long, white sheath Julie's boyfriend had started wearing.
这就是朱莉的男朋友开始穿的那件白色长紧身衣。
He asked her one day to iron it.
有一天，他请她熨烫它。
It was 25 feet long.
它有 25 英尺长。
and I ironed the whole thing.
我把整件衣服熨平了。
So you did iron it.
所以你熨烫了它。
Julie I ironed the dhoti.
朱莉 我熨了腰布。
And what did you say to yourself about why you were ironing it?
关于为什么要熨烫它，你对自己说了什么？
I'm in love?
我恋爱了？
I don't know.
我不知道。
What do you say when you do stupid sh--?
当你做蠢事时你会说什么？
I wanted him to look nice for temple.
我想让他在寺庙里看起来很漂亮。
I didn't want him to be the bad-looking bhakta with the uncool girlfriend.
我不想让他成为一个长相难看的奉献者，和一个不酷的女朋友。
Not wanting to be uncool motivates a surprising number of cringe love stories.
不想变得不酷会激发出数量惊人的令人畏惧的爱情故事。
I had long talks about cringe love with a few women besides Julie, one of whom once found herself working two jobs to support a boyfriend who spent all day writing in his journal about the affair he was having with someone else.
除了朱莉之外，我还和其他几个女人谈论了令人畏缩的爱情，其中一个女人曾经发现自己打着两份工作来养活一个男朋友，而这个男朋友整天在日记中写下他与别人的外遇。
What makes you cringe is not so much that you are in a relationship that now seems ridiculous.
让你感到畏缩的并不是你们所处的关系现在看起来很荒谬。
It's that you wanted that ridiculous relationship.
而是你想要那种可笑的关系。
You got on the train.
你上了火车。
It was romantic.
很浪漫。
You were right in there.
你就在那里。
And you know it could happen again at any time.
而且您知道这种情况随时可能再次发生。
Who isn't willing to be ridiculous for love?
谁不愿意为了爱情而荒唐呢？
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our show.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制片人之一。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "WHEN YOU WERE MINE" BY CYNDI LAUPER]
[音乐播放 - CYNDI LAUPER 的《当你是我的时候》]
Act Two: M*A*S*H Notes.
第二幕：M*A*S*H 笔记。
At one point during the height of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Bill Clinton said this to the press about the ongoing investigations, rumors, and accusations.
在莫妮卡·莱温斯基丑闻最严重的时候，比尔·克林顿曾对媒体就正在进行的调查、谣言和指控发表过这样的言论。
I just have to try to put this in a little box, like I have every other thing that has been said and done and go on and do my job.
我只需要尝试将其放入一个小盒子中，就像我已经说过和做过的所有其他事情一样，然后继续完成我的工作。
That's what I'm going to work at.
这就是我要做的工作。
I think once we get to a certain age, so many things have happened in our lives that make us cringe, that it is no longer a box.
我认为一旦我们到了一定的年龄，生活中发生了很多让我们畏缩的事情，它就不再是一个盒子了。
It's like a whole room full of boxes, any one of which makes us cringe.
这就像一整个房间都装满了盒子，任何一个都让我们感到畏缩。
And what we do is we try to keep the door to that room closed.
我们所做的就是努力把那个房间的门关上。
But the fact is there are so many ways into those rooms.
但事实上，进入这些房间的方法有很多。
There's so many things that can remind us of the things that we feel ashamed of.
有很多事情可以让我们想起那些让我们感到羞耻的事情。
For me, six months doesn't pass with at least one nightmare involving the cast and crew of the TV show M*A*S*H.
对我来说，六个月的时间不会伴随着电视节目《M*A*S*H》的演员和工作人员的至少一场噩梦。
Quiet, please.
请安静。
Roll camera.
滚动相机。
Alan Alda Don't you think it's about time it became an Army matter?
艾伦·阿尔达：你不认为现在是时候把这件事纳入陆军事务了吗？
When I was 20, back in 1979, I spent four days on the set of M*A*S*H.
1979 年，当我 20 岁的时候，我在《M*A*S*H》片场待了四天。
I'd written them this letter on National Public Radio stationery, asking if I could do a story about the show.
我在国家公共广播电台的文具上给他们写了这封信，询问我是否可以做一个关于该节目的报道。
I watched them film scenes and rehearse lines.
我看着他们拍摄场景并排练台词。
Could be a good idea, Hawkeye could be an accessory before the fight.
可能是个好主意，鹰眼可以作为战斗前的辅助品。
Could be useful, he says.
他说，可能会有用。
Alan Alda Well, well, I say.
艾伦·阿尔达 好吧，好吧，我说。
Well, OK.
好吧，好吧。
We'll let-- let's-- we'll let-- OK, well, OK, we'll let balder heads prevail.
我们会让——让我们——我们会让——好吧，好吧，好吧，我们会让秃头占上风。
What?
什么？
I'd been an intern at NPR.
我曾是 NPR 的实习生。
I'd had short-term jobs on specials and documentaries and on All Things Considered, which meant that I was pretty much skillful enough to get access to official stationery, but not actually skilled enough to know how to do a real story on my own.
我曾在特别节目、纪录片和《所有事情》中做过短期工作，这意味着我相当熟练，可以使用官方文具，但实际上还不够熟练，不知道如何自己制作一个真实的故事。
Recently, I listened to the cassettes of these old interviews for the first time in 20 years, and it was one long cringe-a-thon.
最近，我二十年来第一次听这些旧采访的录音带，那是一次漫长的令人畏缩的马拉松。
I ask lots of very strange questions on the tapes, questions that usually begin this way.
我在录音带上问了很多非常奇怪的问题，这些问题通常都是这样开始的。
There's the rumbling noise of somebody mishandling a microphone, and then a little rambling preamble before the actual question.
有人误操作麦克风而发出隆隆的噪音，然后在实际问题之前有一些漫无目的的序言。
One thing that's-- one of the messages-- one of the messages that I always get from the show is that every person should be listened to.
我总是从节目中得到的信息之一是，每个人的声音都应该被倾听。
Every person should be-- it's a very humanitarian, almost a populist sort of message that every person deserves some attention.
每个人都应该——这是一种非常人道主义、几乎是民粹主义的信息，即每个人都应该得到一些关注。
But is there a problem with that with you?
但你有这样的问题吗？
Because if you give everybody who knows you, now, by seeing you on TV, some attention, isn't that difficult?
因为如果你现在通过在电视上看到你而给每个认识你的人一些关注，那不是很困难吗？
I mean, can't there be just a lot of pressure with that?
我的意思是，难道不会有很大的压力吗？
The answer to that long question is yes, of course.
这个长问题的答案当然是肯定的。
This is the actor who played Klinger on the series.
这是在该剧中扮演克林格的演员。
He is unfailingly gracious.
他总是仁慈的。
In fact, everybody is unfailingly gracious, the stars, the extras, the writers, the crew.
事实上，每个人都非常和蔼可亲，明星、群众演员、编剧、工作人员。
In a certain sense, that just makes it worse.
从某种意义上说，这只会让事情变得更糟。
It's one thing to be an ass in front of people who are also acting like asses.
在同样表现得像驴子的人面前做驴子是一回事。
It is another to hear that you are the one and only idiot in the room.
听到你是房间里唯一的白痴是另一回事。
At the time, I didn't really know how exactly to prepare for this kind of story.
当时我真的不知道到底要如何准备这样的故事。
And in retrospect, I have to say, I probably should have watched the program a little more intensively before going to California.
回想起来，我不得不说，我可能应该在去加利福尼亚之前更仔细地观看该节目。
Intensively enough, for example, to correctly pronounce all the characters' names.
例如，足够集中地正确发音所有角色的名字。
OK.
好的。
Well, where should I start?
嗯，我应该从哪里开始呢？
Of all the characters, Father Mulcagy seems to have remained the most constant over the years.
在所有角色中，马尔卡吉神父多年来似乎一直保持着最稳定的状态。
How are you pronouncing my name?
你怎么发音我的名字？
Father?
父亲？
I have to hear you pronounce it to make sure you pronounce it right.
我必须听你发音以确保你发音正确。
Mulcahy?
马尔卡希？
William Christopher Oh, that's good.
威廉·克里斯托弗 哦，那很好。
Good, good.
好，好。
No, that's fine.
不，没关系。
Well, no, I think that the spelling bothers people, because of the H close to the end.
嗯，不，我认为拼写会让人烦恼，因为 H 接近结尾。
You see now, until I came here and saw a script, I didn't know that.
你看，直到我来到这里看到剧本，我才知道这一点。
And I always assumed that it was Mulcagy.
我一直以为那是马尔卡吉。
That's what I thought you might have said.
我想你可能也是这么说的。
It sounded sort of like you said that.
听起来有点像你说的。
Believe me, Ira--
相信我，艾拉——
At some point in my brief time working at NPR I'd been told that one way to put people at ease in an interview is to talk a little bit about yourself.
在我在 NPR 工作的短暂时间里，有人告诉我，在采访中让人们放松的一种方法是谈论一些你自己。
If you tell a personal story, they tell a personal story.
如果你讲述个人故事，他们也会讲述个人故事。
It's just human nature, I was told.
有人告诉我，这只是人性。
So the seven hours of tape are filled with one little story after another that I tell about my life, trying to relate and all.
因此，这七个小时的磁带充满了我讲述自己生活的一个又一个小故事，试图将其联系起来等等。
One thing that happens in radio production, I know, is-- let me think of an example.
我知道，广播制作中发生的一件事是——让我想一个例子。
Sometimes we'll be producing something.
有时我们会生产一些东西。
And we had a Halloween special.
我们还举办了万圣节特别活动。
And we had a genetic engineer.
我们有一位基因工程师。
One thing that I'm just thinking of as you're saying this is when I'm-- I mean, I've written a lot of scripts for commercials and for plays at schools and things like that.
正如你所说，我正在考虑的一件事是，我的意思是，我为商业广告和学校戏剧之类的事情写了很多剧本。
And there's so many times that I'm not in a scene.
而且很多时候我都不在场景中。
But I give them the dialogue.
但我给他们对话。
And I'll sit there.
我会坐在那里。
And they'll say it.
他们会这么说。
And I'll say, "No, it doesn't sound right.
我会说：“不，这听起来不对。
I'll fix it," just to deal with the actor.
我会解决它，”只是为了对付演员。
And then they'll do it.
然后他们就会这么做。
And I'll think to myself, ah, I could do it better.
我会想，啊，我可以做得更好。
Do you ever--
你有没有——
How much-- when I think of myself doing any sort of radio show, I feel like I'm trying to-- I feel like I've got this audience, and I've got these people.
当我想到自己在做任何类型的广播节目时，我觉得我在努力——我觉得我有这些观众，我有这些人。
And I want to talk to them, you know?
我想和他们谈谈，你知道吗？
I want to get myself across.
我想让自己过去。
I'm a college sophomore, literally.
从字面上看，我是一名大学二年级学生。
What's striking about these questions is that they combine complete naivete with condescension.
这些问题的引人注目之处在于它们将完全的天真与居高临下结合在一起。
I am both clueless, and I think I know it all.
我都一无所知，但我想我都知道了。
Listening now, it's not the utter presumptuousness of it all that gets to me.
现在听着，我觉得这一切并不是完全自以为是。
It's the awkward moments where I hear myself just saying anything that I can think of, clumsy jokes and stories that are half-true and this kind of fake, familiar joshing, and basically anything else trying to make a connection.
在尴尬的时刻，我听到自己只是在说我能想到的任何事情，笨拙的笑话和半真半假的故事，这种虚假的、熟悉的玩笑，以及基本上任何其他试图建立联系的东西。
I cringe more at that because that is absolutely still in me.
我对此感到更加畏缩，因为那绝对是在我体内。
I hear that still in the interviews that I do now for this radio show.
我仍然在我现在为这个广播节目所做的采访中听到这一点。
And most of the time we try to cut that out.
大多数时候我们都试图消除这种情况。
What we cringe most at are the things we hate most in ourselves.
我们最感到畏缩的是我们自己最讨厌的事情。
Also horrifying on these tapes are questions whose sheer rudeness I was simply too young and ignorant to understand.
这些录音带中同样令人恐惧的问题是，我当时太年轻、无知，无法理解这些问题的粗鲁无礼。
Asking some of the extras, do they ever want, you know, speaking parts.
问一些临时演员，他们是否想要，你知道的，说话的部分。
Asking one of the show's stars if he really doesn't think to himself sometimes, "Is this TV stuff really as worthwhile as Shakespeare?" Asking Harry Morgan, the great character actor who played Colonel Potter on the show, and who had been on countless TV shows since the beginning of the medium, this question.
问一位节目明星有时是否真的不这么想：“这些电视节目真的像莎士比亚一样有价值吗？”问哈利·摩根这个问题，他是在剧中扮演波特上校的伟大角色演员，自从媒体诞生以来，他就出现在无数的电视节目中。
It seems like in most of your roles, you're always there, but you're never the lead.
似乎在你的大多数角色中，你总是在那里，但你从来不是主角。
You're never the center.
你永远不是中心。
Why is that?
这是为什么？
Well, I don't know.
嗯，我不知道。
Some people just sort of fall into that category.
有些人就属于这一类。
I think all my life I've been a supporting character.
我想我一生都是配角。
It didn't occur to the 20-year-old me what it might mean to spend decades as an actor, doing fine, but not being offered leading man parts.
对于 20 岁的我来说，并没有想到当了几十年的演员，表现不错，但却得不到男主角的机会，这意味着什么。
Oblivious, I pressed on.
我一无所知，继续前行。
You must get the offers.
您必须获得优惠。
You must-- you've been around.
你一定——你一直在附近。
No, nobody's offered me the lead in a show.
不，没有人邀请我担任演出主角。
What makes a-- I'm changing the subject.
是什么让--我要改变话题。
What makes a successful television show?
一部成功的电视节目是什么？
Again, he is unfailingly gracious.
再次，他始终是仁慈的。
Since then, I've flipped past Harry Morgan's face in old episodes of Dragnet.
从那时起，我就在《天罗地网》的旧剧集中翻过哈利·摩根的脸。
He shows up sometimes in old black and white movies.
他有时会出现在黑白老电影中。
He's actually in a lot of classics, like Inherit the Wind and High Noon.
他实际上出演了很多经典作品，比如《继承风》和《正午》。
And every time I'm watching something, and he appears, I wince.
每当我在看某事时，他出现时，我都会皱起眉头。
It's hard to watch.
很难看。
Sometimes, out of the blue, I just remember the fact of his existence, and I cringe.
有时，我突然想起他存在的事实，我就感到畏缩。
Out of all this tape, though, my most cringeworthy line of questions had to do with what I called then the "message" or the "morals" of the show.
然而，在所有这些磁带中，我最难堪的问题与我当时所说的节目的“信息”或“道德”有关。
The 20-year-old me seems to have been fixated on this idea that TV and radio should impart big, important ideas to the people all the time.
20岁的我似乎一直执着于这样一个想法：电视和广播应该一直向人们传递伟大的、重要的思想。
Though, weirdly, whenever I bring this up on the tapes, I seem somehow to lack the language to express this thought clearly.
但奇怪的是，每当我在录音带上提起这个问题时，我似乎都缺乏语言来清楚地表达这个想法。
Here's how I begin my interview with Alan Alda, who won Emmys on M*A*S*H for acting and for writing and for directing.
以下是我对艾伦·阿尔达 (Alan Alda) 的采访，他因表演、编剧和导演而获得了《M*A*S*H》艾美奖。
All your recent writing and directing and acting are-- all the stories have a very-- they show a lot of human values, very moralistic in a lot of ways.
你最近所有的写作、导演和表演——所有的故事都有一个非常——它们展示了很多人类价值观，在很多方面都非常道德化。
Do you believe that television and film should teach?
你认为电视和电影应该教学吗？
I think that to answer that question, I'd have to know what you mean by moralistic.
我认为要回答这个问题，我必须知道你所说的道德是什么意思。
That sounds faintly pejorative to me.
这对我来说听起来有点贬义。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Tell me a little bit more about what you mean.
告诉我更多一点你的意思。
Well, when you-- what are you trying to-- well, maybe you should define it for me.
好吧，当你——你想做什么——好吧，也许你应该为我定义它。
What are you trying to tell your audience?
你想告诉你的观众什么？
OK, I think that for me, the kind of writing that appeals to me the most, and the kind of writing that I try to accomplish, is the kind that--
好吧，我认为对我来说，最吸引我的写作，以及我试图完成的写作，是这样的——
For 45 minutes on the tape, I ask Alan Alda question after question.
在 45 分钟的录音中，我一个接一个地问艾伦·阿尔达。
I quote him egghead ideas from egghead books.
我从书呆子的书中引用了他的书呆子想法。
And miraculously, he gives kind of a great interview, mostly by ignoring my actual words and trying to respond to what it is that I seem to be interested in.
奇迹般的是，他进行了一次很棒的采访，主要是忽略了我的实际言论，并试图回应我似乎感兴趣的内容。
It turns out, he's not interested in teaching anybody a lesson, a political lesson, a moral lesson.
事实证明，他对给任何人上一课、政治课、道德课不感兴趣。
He hates that idea.
他讨厌这个想法。
His goal is much simpler.
他的目标要简单得多。
He's interested in stories that just capture the way people are.
他对捕捉人们本来面目的故事感兴趣。
And I don't want to sound self-congratulatory.
我不想让自己听起来沾沾自喜。
There are times that I don't think we make it, plenty of times.
有时我认为我们没能成功，很多时候。
There are things I see sometimes that I wince at.
有时我看到一些东西会让我皱眉。
But we're always trying, that I will give us credit for, to reflect real experience.
但我们一直在努力反映真实的经验，我对此表示赞赏。
And the audience hasn't rejected us for that.
观众并没有因此而拒绝我们。
In fact, the more we've been able to do that, the more the audience has made us popular.
事实上，我们越能做到这一点，观众就越让我们受欢迎。
But there were people in the beginning who said, "Oh, keep them out of the operating room.
但一开始就有人说：“哦，让他们远离手术室。
Nobody wants to see blood.
没有人愿意看到血。
That'll turn them off on the humor." If we had started a couple of years later, there would have been people who said, "Look, you've got all those nurses.
这会让他们失去幽默感。”如果我们几年后开始，就会有人说：“看，你们有那么多护士。
Let's show the nurses in shorts and halters.
让我们展示一下穿着短裤和吊带背心的护士们。
And let's show them in their underwear and get them into wet t-shirts as much as you can," and stuff like that.
让我们展示他们穿着内衣的样子，并尽可能让他们穿上湿T恤，”诸如此类的东西。
Well, we pretty much didn't do that.
好吧，我们几乎没有这样做。
Now, this seems like a stupid thing to say.
现在看来，这句话说起来很愚蠢。
But the fact is, a lot of people in the entertainment business are afraid that if you get too real, if you reflect experience too truly, that you'll scare people away, that they'll be bored, that it's not flashy enough, or it's not, in quotes, "entertaining" enough.
但事实是，娱乐界的很多人都担心，如果你太真实，如果你太真实地反映经验，你会吓跑人们，他们会感到无聊，害怕它不够浮华，或者用引号引起来，它不够“娱乐”。
20 years ago, I listened to these tapes over and over for months, cutting and re-cutting the interviews late into the night, trying to turn them into a radio story.
20年前，我花了好几个月的时间一遍又一遍地听这些录音带，把采访剪辑一遍又一遍，直到深夜，试图把它们变成一个广播故事。
I remember staying at NPR's headquarters, camped out in an edit booth, long after everybody had left, day after day after day.
我记得在全国公共广播电台总部的一个编辑室里扎营，在所有人都离开之后很久，日复一日。
I didn't know what I was doing.
我不知道自己在做什么。
I never finished the story.
我一直没有讲完这个故事。
Ashamed of myself, I packed the tapes away in a little box and pushed my feelings about the whole thing into another, different sort of little box, and then did what anybody does to move on.
我为自己感到羞愧，把磁带装进一个小盒子，然后把我对整件事的感受放进另一个不同的小盒子里，然后像任何人一样继续前进。
I tried to pretend that it never, ever happened.
我试图假装这一切从未发生过。
When I dream about M*A*S*H, the cast is polite, but it's clear that I did let them down.
当我梦见《M*A*S*H》时，演员们很有礼貌，但很明显我确实让他们失望了。
The problem with having a big, cringey moment on the set of one of the most successful series in the history of television is that the show doesn't really go away.
在电视史上最成功的连续剧之一的片场出现一个重大而尴尬的时刻，问题在于该剧并没有真正消失。
I checked TV guide.
我查了电视指南。
And where I live, in Chicago, M*A*S*H is on 10 times a day.
在我居住的芝加哥，M*A*S*H 每天播出 10 次。
It was my Grandma Molly's very favorite show.
这是我奶奶莫莉最喜欢的节目。
And for years after I visited the set of M*A*S*H, if she and I were ever together at any kind of setting, like a party or a wedding, or any setting with lots of people around, she would tell everybody at some point, in a big voice, how I had gone to the set of M*A*S*H, and wasn't that incredible?
在我参观《M*A*S*H》片场多年后，如果我和她在任何场合在一起，比如聚会或婚礼，或者任何周围有很多人的场合，她都会在某个时候大声告诉每个人，我是如何去了《M*A*S*H》片场的，这不是令人难以置信吗？
And then everybody would gather around.
然后每个人都会聚集在一起。
And people would get all excited.
人们会变得很兴奋。
And they would start kvelling.
他们会开始吵闹。
And they would start to ask me, "Well, so what was it like?
他们会开始问我：“嗯，那是什么样的？
What was it like?" And it was always hard to know what to do.
是什么样子的？”而且总是很难知道该做什么。
And so there would always be this long moment where I summoned up the energy to say something.
因此，总会有那么一段漫长的时刻，我会鼓起勇气说些什么。
"They're all really nice," I'd say.
“他们都非常好，”我会说。
"They're really, really nice."
“他们真的非常非常好。”
Coming up, when the person who makes you cringe might be cringing at you.
即将到来，当那个让你畏缩的人可能对你感到畏缩时。
And can you undo a cringe?
你能消除畏缩吗？
Our non-scientific inquiry continues, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台的非科学调查仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, stories that make us cringe, and some thoughts about what it is about these stories that makes us have this physical reaction.
今天的节目，让我们感到畏缩的故事，以及关于这些故事是什么让我们产生这种身体反应的一些想法。
We have arrived at act three of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第三幕。
Act Three, Ariel Sharon, Shimon Peres, David Ben-Gurion, and Me.
第三幕，阿里尔·沙龙、西蒙·佩雷斯、大卫·本·古里安和我。
"December 3, 1986, Wednesday.
“1986 年 12 月 3 日，星期三。
Another fascinating day in the life of Adam Davidson.
亚当·戴维森生命中又一个迷人的一天。
I have a math test tomorrow.
我明天有数学考试。
I'm going to school early to tutor a girl in my class for the aforementioned test.
我要早点去学校辅导班上的一个女孩进行上述考试。
My math class, a joint precalculus and calculus class, consists mainly of seniors not especially interested in learning.
我的数学课是一个预科微积分和微积分联合课，主要由对学习不是特别感兴趣的高年级学生组成。
I guess that I'm the quote, 'class expert,' unquote, in that I always do the math problems which no one else can.
我想我就是那句话所说的“课堂专家”，不加引号，因为我总是做别人做不到的数学问题。
And for this, I'm disliked.
为此，我不喜欢。
I guess that because I apply myself, think clearly, and do a little work, as well as some intelligence helping out, I am a geek.
我想，因为我专注、清晰思考、做了一些工作，以及一些智力的帮助，所以我是一个极客。
In truth, I am far from it."
事实上，我离它还很远。”
When you first read that to yourself, when you first saw it, your reaction was?
当你第一次读到它时，当你第一次看到它时，你的反应是？
It was pure horror.
这纯粹是恐怖。
Ira Glass Recently, Adam Davidson, an occasional contributor to our program, found his old high school diaries.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 最近，我们项目的临时撰稿人亚当·戴维森 (Adam Davidson) 发现了他以前的高中日记。
Adam's mom is Israeli.
亚当的妈妈是以色列人。
His dad is American.
他的父亲是美国人。
Adam grew up in New York.
亚当在纽约长大。
Well, his body was in New York.
嗯，他的尸体在纽约。
His brain, as the diaries reveal, was somewhere else entirely.
正如日记所揭示的那样，他的大脑完全在其他地方。
I remember when I was writing it, I remember very clearly, although I don't say this in the diary, that it was very clear to me that this was the diary of the future Prime Minister of Israel, me.
我记得我写的时候，我记得很清楚，虽然我在日记里没有这么说，但我很清楚，这是以色列未来总理我的日记。
That I would one day be prime minister.
我有一天会成为首相。
And it would be very important for history for people to know the deep thoughts of a young Zionist as he prepared his way to lead his nation.
对于历史来说，让人们了解一位年轻的犹太复国主义者在准备领导他的国家时的深刻思想对历史非常重要。
Now, our regular listeners here on This American Life might remember that you've been on our program describing your experience in Israeli Army summer camp.
现在，《美国生活》的常客可能还记得您曾在我们的节目中描述您在以色列陆军夏令营的经历。
That was right before I started writing this dairy.
那是在我开始写这篇日记之前。
Read me another.
给我读另一个。
Adam Davidson Sure.
亚当·戴维森 当然。
Let's see.
让我们来看看。
"There's so much wrong with Jews in Israel that I'm going to have a job ahead of me.
“以色列的犹太人有太多问题，我将面临一份工作。
One thing is the lack of any strong Jewish identity among most Jews.
一件事是大多数犹太人缺乏强烈的犹太身份。
This attitude sickens me.
这种态度让我感到恶心。
You Jews of the world, stop worrying about money and well-being.
你们世界上的犹太人，不要再担心金钱和福祉了。
I do not know what exactly I'll do.
我不知道我到底要做什么。
But if this situation continues when I'm a bit older, then watch out, world Jewry, here comes Adam." And "watch out world Jewry, here comes Adam" was all in capital letters.
但如果这种情况在我长大一点后继续下去，那么请小心，世界犹太人，亚当来了。” “小心世界犹太人，亚当来了”全部是大写字母。
It's interesting that you actually are addressing a readership.
有趣的是，你实际上是在向读者讲话。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
That's what's kind of amazing.
这就是令人惊奇的地方。
Yeah I have this thing from January 4, 1987.
是的，我有 1987 年 1 月 4 日的这个东西。
"I memorized "The Hope," "Hatikva," which is the Israeli national anthem, a few minutes ago.
“几分钟前，我记住了以色列国歌《希望》和《Hatikva》。
That will help me in Israel."
这对我在以色列有帮助。”
I find that really amazing, that here I am, the future Prime Minister of Israel, and what are the things I need?
我觉得这真的很神奇，我在这里，未来的以色列总理，我需要什么东西？
Oh god, I need to know the national anthem.
天哪，我需要知道国歌。
I'll probably be called upon to recite that at some point.
我可能会在某个时候被要求背诵这句话。
At 16, I had such an inflated sense of myself.
16岁时，我的自我意识是如此膨胀。
There was so much going on in my life then that I can remember.
那时我的生活发生了很多事情，我都记得。
And I wasn't recording it.
而且我并没有录制它。
Instead, I was creating this ridiculous fantasy of, I'm not just a 16-year-old kid who's having crushes, and a hopeless geek who can't get a girl to kiss him, and being scared and confused about growing old.
相反，我在创造这样一个荒谬的幻想：我不只是一个暗恋的 16 岁孩子，一个无法让女孩亲吻他的绝望的极客，一个对变老感到恐惧和困惑的人。
I'm the future Prime Minister of Israel.
我是以色列未来的总理。
And everything goes through that.
一切都会经历这个过程。
But I don't know.
但我不知道。
But maybe keeping a diary where one tells the truth, maybe that's a luxury of being a certain kind of person in a certain kind of situation.
但也许写日记，说出真相，也许这是在某种情况下成为某种人的一种奢侈。
Maybe other people in another kind of situation need to actually make up a little fantasy.
也许处于另一种情况的其他人实际上需要编造一些幻想。
Yeah, I think I didn't have much angst about being the future Prime Minister of Israel.
是的，我想我对成为未来的以色列总理并没有太多焦虑。
I was very calm and confident and comfortable with it.
我对此非常平静、自信和舒服。
And I had so much angst about every other aspect of my life.
我对生活的其他方面都感到非常焦虑。
And so I now see it as just kind of a-- maybe it was a good solution.
所以我现在认为它只是一种——也许这是一个很好的解决方案。
It was a good way to deal with what I was going through, to have this space where I could just be one of the greats.
这是处理我正在经历的事情的好方法，拥有这个空间，让我可以成为伟大的人之一。
I wonder what the 16-year-old Adam Davidson would feel knowing that finally, an audience of a million people was getting some of the reading from this diary.
我想知道 16 岁的亚当·戴维森 (Adam Davidson) 知道一百万人的读者终于能从这本日记中读到一些内容时会有什么感受。
I think this would feel so small to that 16-year-old.
我想对于那个16岁的孩子来说这会感觉太渺小了。
This would feel so nothing.
这样感觉就没什么了。
This would be so unimportant.
这将变得如此不重要。
Being on the radio.
在广播中。
Adam Davidson Being on the radio, a million people, what's a million people?
亚当·戴维森（Adam Davidson） 在广播中，有一百万人，一百万人是什么？
I mean, we're talking about history.
我的意思是，我们正在谈论历史。
We're talking about sweeping changes.
我们正在谈论彻底的改变。
I'm pretty sure that he would be thoroughly unimpressed.
我很确定他会完全不为所动。
And Adam, what would the 16-year-old you think of you now?
Adam，16 岁的你现在会怎么看你？
I think he'd be really disappointed.
我想他一定会非常失望。
I think he'd be really sad.
我想他一定会很难过。
Because you're not the Prime Minister of Israel?
因为你不是以色列总理？
Yeah, because I just have such a small life.
是的，因为我的生命如此渺小。
I remember I was very disappointed and very sad about my parents.
我记得我对父母感到非常失望和悲伤。
I was reading biographies, of course, of all the Prime Ministers of Israel.
当然，我正在阅读以色列所有总理的传记。
And I would just think about my parents, and just think, how do you wake up every day knowing that your actions won't affect millions of people?
我只会想到我的父母，然后想一想，你如何每天醒来都知道你的行为不会影响数百万人？
How is that enough motivation, just to have your petty little craft, and your petty little family, and your small, little apartment?
仅仅为了拥有你的小手艺、你的小家庭和你的小公寓，这个动力怎么就足够了呢？
It just seemed pathetic.
这看起来很可悲。
And they have the kind of life that basically, I want for myself.
他们的生活基本上就是我想要的。
What you're saying, though, is that the 16-year-old you would be cringing at your 30-year-old version, just as your 30-year-old version is cringing at the 16.
不过，你所说的是，16 岁的你会对 30 岁的版本感到畏缩，就像你 30 岁的版本会对 16 岁的版本感到畏缩一样。
Yeah, that's very true, yeah.
是的，这是非常正确的，是的。
He would be very, very disgusted if he heard this radio piece.
如果他听到这个广播节目，他会非常非常厌恶。
It would seem like I had settled in a pathetic way.
看来我已经以一种可悲的方式安顿下来了。
Act Four, Cringe and Purge.
第四幕，畏缩与净化。
There are a lot of stories in your life that the more you tell them, the less power they have over you.
你的生活中有很多故事，你讲得越多，他们对你的影响力就越小。
It's like they wear themselves out like chewing gum that stops having flavor.
就像他们把自己磨损得像口香糖一样失去了味道。
But cringe stories somehow do not seem to lose their power over time.
但令人畏惧的故事似乎并没有随着时间的推移而失去其力量。
Every time you remember, you cringe.
每次回忆起，你都会感到畏缩。
So what do you do if you want to stop cringing?
那么，如果你想停止畏缩，你该怎么办？
We have this story from Bruce Jay Friedman about somebody who decides to take action.
布鲁斯·杰·弗里德曼 (Bruce Jay Friedman) 讲述了一个决定采取行动的人的故事。
It had been a mild financial strain to take his wife and travel to Europe.
带妻子去欧洲旅行给他带来了轻微的经济压力。
And so for the first week, Gribitz kept reminding them that they were in a special place, much better than Rockaway Beach or Cape Cod.
因此，在第一周，格里比茨不断提醒他们，他们身处一个特殊的地方，比洛克威海滩或科德角要好得多。
"You're drinking French water," he would tell his son each time the boy took a glassful.
“你喝的是法国水，”每次儿子喝一杯时，他都会告诉他。
And on the way to the seashore, he would lean back and say to his wife, "Fill your lungs with some of that French air."
在去海边的路上，他会靠在椅背上对妻子说：“让你的肺充满法国空气。”
As for Gribitz, he tried to fill himself with enjoyment, to look everywhere at once and afraid that by doing so, he was seeing nothing.
至于格里比茨，他试图让自己充满乐趣，立即环顾四周，但又担心这样一来，他什么也看不见。
Besides, he could not feel entirely comfortable, because he had not seen a soul he knew.
此外，他也感觉不太舒服，因为他没有看到一个他认识的灵魂。
He tried to turn this into an advantage, telling his wife, "Isn't it great that we don't know a soul here, that we can just be by ourselves for a change?"
他试图把这变成一种优势，告诉他的妻子：“我们这里一个人都不认识，我们只能靠自己来改变，这不是很好吗？”
But actually, he longed to see just one familiar face-- Henry Nester, his insurance man, or even Uncle Hicky, who traveled to exotic places each year and raved about Miami hotels.
但实际上，他渴望看到的只是一张熟悉的面孔——亨利·内斯特，他的保险公司，甚至是希基叔叔，他每年都会去异国他乡旅行，并对迈阿密的酒店赞不绝口。
It wasn't so much that he was lonely, but that he wanted his sense of reality straightened.
与其说他孤独，不如说他想要理顺自己的现实感。
How else could he be sure he was in Europe, and that it was he, Gribitz, and not some fellow in a dream?
否则他怎么能确定自己在欧洲，而且是他，格里比茨，而不是梦中的某个人呢？
Each night, Gribitz and his wife would take seats at a sidewalk cafe and stare across the street at people in another sidewalk cafe.
每天晚上，格里比茨和他的妻子都会在一家路边咖啡馆坐下来，盯着街对面另一家路边咖啡馆里的人们。
One night, he picked out a familiar face across the road said to his wife, "Uh-oh.
一天晚上，他在马路对面看到一张熟悉的面孔，对他的妻子说：“呃哦。
I see one I think I know, only I hope I don't, because if it's him, it's going to start a whole thing." He excused himself and crossed the street.
我看到一个我认为我认识的人，只是我希望我不认识，因为如果是他，整件事就会开始。”他告辞并穿过街道。
The fellow he went up to was well-muscled and had a deep-seamed suntan but also great swoops of hair that might have more appropriate for a concert musician.
他去找的那个人肌肉发达，晒黑的皮肤很深，但也有一头浓密的头发，这可能更适合音乐会音乐家。
Beside him sat a petulant wife and two girls in their early teens.
他旁边坐着一位脾气暴躁的妻子和两个十几岁的女孩。
"I'll be brief," said Gribitz.
“我会简短地说，”格里比茨说。
"Your name doesn't happen to be Carroll, does it?
“你的名字不会是卡罗尔吧？
And were you once in the Air Force?" The fellow nodded.
你曾经在空军服役过吗？”那家伙点点头。
And Gribitz said, "I'll be going back now.
格里比茨说：“我现在就回去。
I just wanted to nail this down out of curiosity."
我只是出于好奇想把这件事弄清楚。”
Gribitz returned to his table and said, "Well, it's him all right.
格里比茨回到自己的桌子旁说道：“好吧，就是他了。
It's amazing what a whole cascade of things just came tumbling into my head.
令人惊奇的是，一连串的事情突然涌入我的脑海。
Well, I've finally seen someone, and I know it's me, right here in Europe now.
好吧，我终于看到一个人了，我知道那就是我，现在就在欧洲。
Only I wish that fellow had been one of at least 4,000 other people I could mention."
只是我希望那个人是我能提到的至少 4,000 个人中的一个。”
On the way back to their villa, Gribitz said, "Look.
在返回别墅的路上，格里比茨说：“看。
I'm not trying to be mysterious.
我并不是想表现得神秘。
It's the kind of story I just have to slide into, you know, when I get comfortable.
你知道，当我感觉舒服的时候，我就必须陷入这样的故事。
I'm not even sure how important it is right now."
我什至不确定它现在有多重要。”
But he couldn't sleep that night.
但当晚他无法入睡。
He got up, woke his wife and said, "Look, I've always been honest.
他站起来，叫醒了妻子，说道：“看，我一直都很诚实。
What's really getting to me is that fellow I just told you about, the one I'd rather not have run into.
真正让我感动的是我刚才告诉过你的那个人，我宁愿不要遇到那个人。
I thought I'd just think it out and pass it by, but it's not working out that way.
我以为我会想清楚然后就过去了，但事实并非如此。
I'm just being honest." "Don't be so honest," said his wife.
我只是说实话。” “别这么诚实，”他的妻子说。
The next morning, Gribitz called American Express.
第二天早上，格里比茨给美国运通打电话。
And then, in the middle of breakfast, he suddenly shoved aside a croissant and said, "Look, I don't really love these.
然后，早餐吃到一半的时候，他突然把一个牛角面包推到一边说：“听着，我不太喜欢这些。
I don't see why I have to go through the motions.
我不明白为什么我必须走过场。
"All right.
“好吧。
Now here's the deal.
现在事情是这样的。
I'm going after that fellow.
我要去追那个家伙。
Let me rephrase that.
让我重新表述一下。
I'm going to visit that sunburned guy from the cafe last night.
我要去拜访昨晚咖啡馆里那个晒伤的家伙。
What happened is a long time ago, maybe 15 years now, he humiliated me in front of 250 guys.
事情发生在很久以前，也许是 15 年前，他在 250 个人面前羞辱了我。
Don't ask me how he did it.
别问我他是怎么做到的。
I was a new officer.
我是一名新军官。
He was an enlisted man.
他是一名应征入伍的男子。
It shouldn't have happened that way, but it did.
事情不应该这样发生，但它却发生了。
I thought I'd forgotten all about it.
我以为我已经把这一切都忘了。
I don't think I've thought of it once in the last eight years.
我想在过去的八年里我从来没有想过这个问题。
But I guess it was simmering right there under the surface all along.
但我猜它一直在表面下酝酿着。
Now I've tracked him down to Golfe Sainte-Juan.
现在我已经找到他到了圣胡安湾。
He's out of the service now with some engineering outfit.
他现在已经退役了，带着一些工程装备。
Anyway, I'm off to check in on him now.
不管怎样，我现在就去看看他。
And don't even think about talking me out of it.
甚至别想说服我放弃它。
But there is one thing I've got ask you to do.
但有一件事我要请你做。
There's no effort involved.
不涉及任何努力。
Just call me at this number in exactly an hour and a half.
只需在一个半小时内拨打这个号码即可。
You know, I'm not really asking.
你知道，我并不是真的在问。
This is one of those few marriage times when I've got to tell you, 'Just make the call, or that's it for us.'"
这是为数不多的婚姻时刻之一，我必须告诉你，‘只要打个电话，否则我们就这样了。’”
"All right," she said, "but was there really a need to frame it exactly that way?" "There was a need.
“好吧，”她说，“但是真的有必要这样表述吗？” “有需要。
There was a need.
有需要。
Trust me," said Gribitz.
相信我，”格里比茨说。
"I have no time to go into any psychology with you.
“我没有时间和你探讨任何心理学。
Just start twirling that dial in une heure et demie."
就开始在“une heure et demie”中转动那个旋钮吧。”
Gribitz drove for half an hour, checked his watch, and then stopped off at a roadside cafe to get 12 cooked snails to go.
格里比茨开了半个小时的车，看了看手表，然后在路边的一家咖啡馆停下来买了 12 份煮熟的蜗牛。
He was the only customer, and two restaurant troubadours asked if they could play and sing for him.
他是唯一的顾客，两名餐厅游吟诗人询问是否可以为他演奏和唱歌。
"Look, I'm not in that kind of mood," he said.
“听着，我没有那种心情，”他说。
But he finally allowed them to do "Quando, Quando, Quando," a slow cha-cha popular in the States.
但他最终允许他们表演“Quando、Quando、Quando”，这是一种在美国流行的慢节奏恰恰舞。
As they sang to him, he thought about the Air Force and the thing Carroll had done to him.
当他们给他唱歌时，他想到了空军和卡罗尔对他所做的事情。
Very simply, what happened was that Gribitz, on his second day as an officer in the Air Force, fresh from college, had been tossed into the thick of an experienced combat Air Force squadron of 250 men.
很简单，所发生的事情是，刚从大学毕业的格里比茨在担任空军军官的第二天，就被扔进了一支由 250 人组成的经验丰富的空军中队。
One day, the entire squadron had been assembled for a weapons talk.
有一天，整个中队都聚集在一起进行武器讨论。
Gribitz sat at the back of the auditorium, knowing nothing, scared out of his wits that momentarily he'd be unmasked as an idiot.
格里比茨坐在礼堂的最后面，一无所知，他害怕自己很快就会被揭露为白痴。
In the middle of the lecture, the phone rang, loud and clear, the speaker waiting for it to be answered.
讲座进行到一半时，电话铃声响亮而清晰，演讲者正在等待接听。
Gribitz, a few feet away from the phone, could think of no way in the world in which he could have assisted the caller, since there was nothing in the world he knew about the Air Force.
格里比茨距离电话几英尺远，他想不出有什么办法可以帮助打电话的人，因为他对空军一无所知。
So while the audience waited, he asked Carroll, who was then a master sergeant, to answer the phone.
于是，在观众等待的同时，他请当时担任军士长的卡罗尔接电话。
Carroll, after thinking it over for a second, said "No," with a queer little smile.
卡罗尔想了一会儿后，带着奇怪的微笑说“不”。
Gribitz sat up then.
格里比茨然后坐了起来。
And with all 250 men looking on, he asked Carroll a second time to pick up the phone.
在 250 名男子的注视下，他第二次要求卡罗尔拿起电话。
"I said no," Carroll replied.
“我说了不，”卡罗尔回答道。
And Gribitz, his collar suddenly strangling him, had run out of the auditorium on the fourth or fifth ring.
格里比茨的衣领突然勒住了他，他在第四或第五响铃时跑出了礼堂。
The proper procedure, of course, would have been to bring court martial charges against Carroll for disobeying a direct order.
当然，正确的程序是向军事法庭指控卡罗尔违反直接命令。
And Gribitz, however untutored he'd been at the time, at least knew this much.
格里比茨，无论他当时多么没有受过教育，至少知道这么多。
But he had been just as frightened of his immediate superior and a court martial procedure, as he was of master sergeants and telephones.
但他就像害怕军士长和电话一样，害怕他的顶头上司和军事法庭程序。
Doing anything then had been out of the question.
那时做任何事都是不可能的。
Thinking about the incident now, he got a little hitch to his breath.
现在想起刚才的事情，他的呼吸都有些不顺畅。
It had stuck in his throat.
它卡在了他的喉咙里。
And in many ways, it spoiled his entire service experience, just as meeting Carroll the previous night now threatened to upset him for weeks to come.
从很多方面来说，这破坏了他的整个服务体验，就像前一天晚上见到卡罗尔现在可能会让他在未来几周内感到不安一样。
The troubadours ended their number.
游吟诗人结束了他们的演出。
The snails arrived.
蜗牛来了。
And the check had an extra 20% added on for entertainment.
支票上还额外加了 20% 的娱乐费用。
"I just wish I had time to argue," he said as he paid the cashier.
“我只是希望我有时间争论，”他一边付钱给收银员一边说道。
"I'd take you right down to the wire on that entertainment crap.
“我会带你去了解那些娱乐垃圾。
I didn't ask for it.
我没有要求。
It wasn't entertaining."
这并不有趣。”
He drove another 20 minutes or so.
他又开了20分钟左右。
And after some muddling about in a cliffside community overhanging the waterfront, he found a house with the name Carroll out front.
在海滨悬崖边的社区里摸索一番后，他在前面发现了一栋名叫卡罗尔的房子。
Mrs. Carroll answered the doorbell.
卡罗尔夫人应了门铃。
And Gribitz said, "Hi, I'm Leroy Gribitz, and I'm here to do some business with your husband.
格里比茨说：“嗨，我是勒罗伊·格里比茨，我来这里是为了和你丈夫做点生意。
And I brought you some cooked snails.
我给你带来了一些煮熟的蜗牛。
They make them all over the country, I know that.
我知道他们在全国各地生产。
But I think you'll find these have a little extra zip to them.
但我想你会发现它们有一点额外的拉链。
I mean, that's been my experience.
我的意思是，这就是我的经历。
And you know, give some to the kids.
你知道，给孩子们一些。
Is your husband home?"
你老公在家吗？”
The woman called inside, then disappeared.
那女人在里面喊了一声，然后就消失了。
And when the deep-seamed man came out, Gribitz said, "How are you doing, Carroll.
当那个伤痕累累的人出来时，格里比茨说：“你好吗，卡罗尔。
I'm the guy who approached you last night at the cafe.
我就是昨晚在咖啡馆接近你的那个人。
And to get right down to it, I'm A02234907, Grange Air Force Base, 1951 to 1953, the young kid adjutant of squadron 4507 who you did that thing to."
说实话，我是 A02234907，格兰奇空军基地，1951 年至 1953 年，4507 中队的年轻副官，你对他做了那件事。”
Carroll, who was wearing rimless Ben Franklin glasses coming into vogue on the Cote D'Azur, took them off his nose, stroked his chin, and said, "You know, I think I do remember.
卡罗尔戴着在蔚蓝海岸流行的无框本·富兰克林眼镜，他把眼镜从鼻子上取下来，抚摸着下巴，说道：“你知道，我想我确实记得。
Young kid comes into the squadron, never done a lick of military and comes in as an officer yet." "The very kid," said Gribitz.
年轻的孩子进入中队，从未参加过军事训练，但却以军官的身份加入。” “就是这个孩子，”格里比茨说。
"And while you're unwinding the spool, see if you can remember the little business you pulled on me that I'm here for now, 15 years later, about the telephone."
“当你解开线轴时，看看你是否还记得你向我提出的关于电话的小事，15 年后，我现在还在这里。”
"I do remember that thing," said Carroll, taking a seat at a dinette arrangement.
“我确实记得那件事，”卡罗尔在餐桌旁坐下说道。
"You mean when the phone rings, and it's clearly the duty of the officer in charge to pick it up, and you expected me, a master sergeant with 12 years duty on you, to do your dirty work for you, and I wouldn't?"
“你的意思是，当电话响起时，显然是负责接电话的军官的职责，而你却指望我，一个在你身边服役了12年的军士长，为你做那些肮脏的工作，而我不会？”
"That's the time, all right.
“就是这个时间了，好吧。
You disgraced me, pure and simple, in front of 250 guys I could never look in the face again.
你让我蒙羞，纯粹而简单，当着250个人的面，我再也不敢正视了。
You fouled up my whole time in the service.
你把我整个服役时间都搞砸了。
I don't think I got one good night of Air Force sleep.
我想我在空军的一晚都没有睡个好觉。
And don't think I didn't think about it plenty after my discharge.
别以为我出院后没有考虑很多。
The thing is, it's 15 years later.
问题是，已经是 15 年后的事了。
We're both here in this house.
我们都在这所房子里。
And we're playing that little scene again, only with a different ending.
我们再次播放那个小场景，只是结局不同。
In 20 minutes to the second, that phone is going to ring.
再过 20 分钟，电话就会响起。
And when it does, you're going to be the one to answer it." "I always answer the phone when it rings," said Carroll, beginning to pick his teeth.
当它响起时，你将成为接听电话的人。” “我总是在电话铃响时接听电话，”卡罗尔说，开始剔牙。
"Look, now don't be any wise bastard," said Gribitz, "or you'll be hearing an entirely different kind of ring.
“听着，现在别做任何聪明的混蛋，”格里比茨说，“否则你会听到完全不同类型的铃声。
You know damn well what I mean.
你非常清楚我的意思。
I've got that phone set up to ring in 20 minutes.
我已将电话设置为 20 分钟后响铃。
It's no ordinary phone call.
这不是一个普通的电话。
It's the same one from the squadron 15 years ago.
这是15年前中队的同一个人。
We both hear it, and you're the one that makes a grab for it, not me this time.
我们都听到了，而你是那个抓住它的人，这次不是我。
And before you make any smart-ass comments, let me tell you why you're going to pick it up and not me.
在你发表任何自作聪明的评论之前，让我告诉你为什么你要选择它而不是我。
I mean, I may look the same as I did 15 years ago-- the same general body outline and all.
我的意思是，我看起来可能和 15 年前一样——身体轮廓等都一样。
But actually, I'm like four of what I was.
但实际上，我就像以前的四个人一样。
I've been working out like a madman.
我像个疯子一样锻炼身体。
The point is, I can get things done now, just about anything, anything I want, if I concentrate hard enough.
关键是，如果我足够集中注意力，我现在就可以完成任何事情，任何我想要的事情。
How do you think I pulled off this trip?
你认为我这次旅行的结果如何？
I set my sails for it and bulled it through with sheer willpower."
我为之扬帆起航，并凭借纯粹的意志力战胜了它。”
"All right," said Carroll.
“好吧，”卡罗尔说。
"When does it ring?" "I told you when," said Gribitz.
“什么时候响？” “我告诉过你什么时候了，”格里比茨说。
"When I said is when.
“当我说的是时候。
You never should have done that thing to me."
你根本不应该对我做那样的事。”
The phone rang, and Carroll, after flicking at some rear molars, picked up the phone casually and said, "Carroll speaking.
电话铃声响起，卡罗尔弹了几下后臼齿后，漫不经心地拿起电话说道：“卡罗尔讲话。
Who's this?" He listened for a while and then said, "OK, make it chopped steak instead of cotelette d'agneau." "That was the butcher," said Carroll, laying down the receiver.
这位是谁？” 他听了一会儿，然后说道，“好吧，用切碎的牛排代替 cotelette d'agneau。” “那是屠夫，”卡罗尔放下听筒说道。
"All right, forget that," said Gribitz, checking his watch.
“好吧，忘掉这个吧，”格里比茨说着，看了看手表。
"Our call has another five minutes to go."
“我们的通话还有五分钟。”
"Look," said Carroll.
“看，”卡罗尔说。
"Why don't I just go beep, beep beep, pick it up, OK?
“我为什么不去嘟嘟嘟，拿起它，好吗？
We've got the show packed up, and we get out of here." "Well, that'll be the day," said Gribitz.
我们的演出已经结束了，我们就离开这里了。” “好吧，那就是这一天了，”格里比茨说。
"I'll bet you'd just love to pull something like that on me."
“我敢打赌你一定会喜欢对我做这样的事情。”
They sat together in silence, and after two minutes, the phone rang again.
两人默默地坐在一起，两分钟后，电话又响了。
"Carroll here, answering the phone as ordered," he said.
“卡罗尔在这里，按照命令接听电话，”他说。
He held the receiver aside and said to Gribitz, "Now you want me to just gab for a while?" "No," said Gribitz.
他把听筒放在一边，对格里比茨说：“现在你想让我闲聊一会儿吗？” “不，”格里比茨说。
"Just what you did does it." "Signing off," said Carroll, and laid down the receiver.
“正是你所做的。” “结束了，”卡罗尔说着，放下了听筒。
Gribitz, who hadn't realized how hard he'd been breathing, pulled out a handkerchief and pulled it across his brow.
格里比茨没有意识到自己的呼吸有多困难，他掏出一块手帕，拉过额头。
"Well, that's done," he said.
“好吧，就这样了，”他说。
"And what's done is done." "Yup," said Carroll.
“事情已经过去了。” “是的，”卡罗尔说。
"You been here long?" asked Gribitz.
“你来这里很久了？”格里比茨问道。
"Ah, a year," said Carroll.
“啊，一年了，”卡罗尔说。
"Do your kids have anyone to play with?" "They do alright," said Carroll.
“你家孩子有没有人陪你玩？” “他们做得很好，”卡罗尔说。
"Well, maybe they could come over and play with mine.
“好吧，也许他们可以过来和我一起玩。
Boy, wouldn't that be a hell of a turn?
孩子，这不是一个大转变吗？
Look, all of this was just something I had to get out of my system.
听着，所有这些都是我必须从我的系统中清除的东西。
I know a little bit about myself.
我对自己有一点了解。
If I have something like that bothering me, it can throw off my entire life.
如果我有类似的事情困扰我，它可能会毁掉我的整个生活。
It's just like a splinter.
它就像一个碎片。
You know the kind of grief that can give you?
你知道会给你带来什么样的悲伤吗？
I mean, am I getting through to you at all?" "I guess," said Carroll, waiting with his hand on the door.
我的意思是，我到底有没有接通你的电话？” “我想，”卡罗尔一边说，一边把手放在门上等着。
"Look, when I saw you, I knew I wasn't going to be able to relax until I'd come over here and gotten the damn thing done.
“听着，当我看到你的时候，我就知道在我来这里并完成这该死的事情之前我无法放松。
I mean, now that it's done, to me, it's as if nothing happened.
我的意思是，现在事情已经完成了，对我来说，就好像什么都没发生一样。
What I'm getting at is it was nothing personal.
我的意思是这不是针对个人的。
I mean, do you see that at all?"
我的意思是，你看到了吗？”
"I don't see much of anything," said Carroll, opening the door for Gribitz to leave.
“我什么也没看到，”卡罗尔说着，打开门让格里比茨离开。
"All right.
“好吧。
I'm going to get you for this," said Gribitz, taking his coat, "for what you're doing right now.
我要为这件事逮捕你，”格里比茨一边说，一边拿起他的外套，“因为你现在所做的事。
I don't care if it takes another 15 years.
我不在乎是否还要再花15年。
I mean, you can hide in the goddamned mountains of Tibet.
我的意思是，你可以躲在西藏该死的山区里。
I'll smoke you out, and I'll beat your head 'til you're bloody, because you have gone and spoiled my whole European vacation, you son of a bitch."
我会把你熏出去，我会打你的头，直到你流血为止，因为你已经走了，毁了我的整个欧洲假期，你这个王八蛋。”
Bruce Jay Friedman's story, "The Humiliation," can be found in a book that is called, simply enough, The Collected Short Fiction of Bruce Jay Friedman.
布鲁斯·杰·弗里德曼的故事《耻辱》可以在一本书中找到，这本书的名字很简单，就是《布鲁斯·杰·弗里德曼短篇小说集》。
He has a new book coming out in September called Sexual Pensees.
他有一本新书将于九月出版，名为“性冥想”。
Well, our program was produced today by Jonathan Goldstein and myself with Alex Blumberg, Blue Chevigny, and Starlee Kine.
好吧，我们今天的节目是由乔纳森·戈德斯坦和我本人以及亚历克斯·布隆伯格、布鲁·切维尼和斯塔利·凯恩制作的。
Our senior producer, Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Annie Baxter, Seth Lind and Sativa January.
Todd Bachmann 和 Annie Baxter、Seth Lind 和 Sativa January 为制作提供帮助。
Musical help from Terry Hecker.
特里·赫克 (Terry Hecker) 的音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Nancy Updike's story was produced partly with funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting as part of hearingvoices.com.
[鸣谢] 南希·厄普代克的故事部分由公共广播公司资助制作，属于hearingvoices.com 的一部分。
Our website, www.thisamericanlife.org, where you can listen to our programs for absolutely free or buy CDs of them.
我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中完全免费收听我们的节目或购买节目 CD。
You know, you can download today's program at our archives at audible.com/thisamericanlife.
您知道，您可以在我们的档案库 audible.com/thisamericanlife 下载今天的节目。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight for our show by Mr. Torey Malatia, who I just ran into in the hallway.
[资金来源] WBEZ 的管理人员是 Torey Malatia 先生，我刚刚在走廊里遇到了他。
It was weird.
很奇怪。
He said--
他说——
Oh, no. I can't believe you're here today.
哦，不。我不敢相信你今天在这里。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。