180: Return to Childhood 2001 - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #180 | March 23, 2001 180: Return to Childhood 2001 Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 180 集 | 2001 年 3 月 23 日 180：重返童年 2001 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Fifth grade-- it was so long ago.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 五年级——那是很久以前的事了。
Who can remember that far back?
谁能记得那么久远的事？
Two whole years.
整整两年。
I remember all of, like, the old things.
我记得所有的事情，比如旧事。
Like we used to read the book Harry Potter when it first came out.
就像我们在《哈利·波特》这本书刚出版时读过的那样。
And we made curtains.
我们制作了窗帘。
Harry Potter curtains.
哈利波特窗帘。
Kayla Hernandez And they have new curtains now.
凯拉·埃尔南德斯 他们现在有了新窗帘。
And I look back at them, and I'm like, wow, you know?
我回头看着他们，我想，哇，你知道吗？
It's changed.
它改变了。
And I wish it was still there somehow.
我希望它仍然存在。
This is Kayla Hernandez, in seventh grade at the Pulaski School in Chicago.
我是凯拉·埃尔南德斯 (Kayla Hernandez)，就读于芝加哥普拉斯基学校 (Pulaski School) 七年级。
She says that she actually visits her fifth grade classroom, Room 211, and her fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Chan, fairly often, and reminisces about the past.
她说，她其实经常去五年级的教室211室和五年级的老师陈老师，回忆过去的事情。
Recently I went through the shelves, and our books are still there.
最近我翻遍了书架，我们的书还在那里。
Like Our America.
就像我们的美国。
You're talking about the book Our America?
你在谈论《我们的美国》这本书吗？
Yeah.
是的。
You know, reminiscing about when we used to read that book.
你知道，回想起我们以前读过那本书的时候。
And how it showed lots of racism.
以及它如何表现出大量的种族主义。
Back in fifth grade, she covered her copy of the book with one of those paper book covers with a picture of NSync on it.
早在五年级时，她就用其中一本纸质书封面盖住了这本书，封面上有一张 NSync 的图片。
It was her copy, though they're not allowed to write their name in the front of the books at her school.
这是她的副本，尽管她的学校不允许他们在书的前面写下自己的名字。
They had numbers, and my number, I think, was like 30.
他们有数字，我想我的数字大概是 30。
Yeah.
是的。
I did.
我做到了。
I saw the book and it was just there, without its paperback covering.
我看到了这本书，它就在那里，没有平装本封面。
You know, everything that was mine is not mine anymore.
你知道，曾经属于我的一切都不再是我的了。
I think that's the hardest thing from switching to another grade, and to another classroom and to another teacher.
我认为这是从换到另一个年级、另一个教室和另一个老师中最困难的事情。
And there's a new environment and different things to learn, and old memories to leave behind.
还有新的环境和不同的东西要学习，还有旧的记忆要留下。
20 years from now, 30 years from now, when you try to remember back to seventh grade, what do you think you're going to remember from this year?
20年后，30年后，当你尝试回忆七年级时，你认为今年你会记住什么？
Isn't that kind of strange, though, to think that you're going through all these experiences now that somehow are going to get wiped off the blackboard?
然而，想到你现在正在经历的所有这些经历都会以某种方式从黑板上擦掉，这不是很奇怪吗？
Yeah.
是的。
But I even have that experience now.
但我现在也有这样的经历。
Like I can't remember things from like second grade.
就像我记不起二年级的事情一样。
Like some things.
喜欢一些东西。
Like, I remember this kid, he wrote this Valentine card for me, like, you're pretty as a rose.
就像，我记得这个孩子，他为我写了这张情人节卡片，就像，你像玫瑰一样美丽。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Something like that.
类似的事情。
But I can't remember teachers really well like I used to.
但我不能像以前那样清楚地记得老师了。
Do you feel sad about that, or is that OK?
你对此感到难过吗？或者这样可以吗？
I feel said about that.
我觉得这件事已经说过了。
Because it's a part of me.
因为它是我的一部分。
It's like you don't even remember what's happened.
就好像你根本不记得发生了什么。
It's kind of hard.
这有点难。
Because it's been a part of you.
因为它已经是你的一部分了。
When I asked Kayla which friends that she wouldn't remember at all someday, it wasn't hard for her to answer.
当我问凯拉有一天她会完全不记得哪些朋友时，她不难回答。
Cynthia.
辛西娅。
I'll probably forget Alileni.
我可能会忘记阿莱尼。
I'll probably forget Diana and Maria.
我可能会忘记戴安娜和玛丽亚。
I'll forget Erica Sorio.
我会忘记艾丽卡·索里奥。
I'll forget a whole bunch of people.
我会忘记一大群人。
She's not close to these kids or anything.
她和这些孩子什么的都不亲近。
But as she said their names, it was like watching them vaporize or something.
但当她说出他们的名字时，就好像看着他们蒸发了什么的。
Someday they'd just be gone, erased from the history of her life, like they had never been there in the first place.
有一天，他们就会消失，从她的生活历史中抹去，就像他们从来没有存在过一样。
We forget most of everything, and then sometimes we go back and try to remember.
我们忘记了大部分事情，然后有时我们会回过头来尝试回忆。
And really, there is no predicting which people and places and moments we'll be able to get back.
事实上，我们无法预测我们将能够回到哪些人、地点和时刻。
Diana and Maria?
戴安娜和玛丽亚？
They could still make the cut.
他们仍然可以晋级。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International it's This American Life.
好吧，这是 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台的节目《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, Return to Childhood.
今天我们的节目《重返童年》。
What you find and what you do not find when you go back.
当你回去时，你发现了什么，没有发现什么。
Our show today in four acts.
我们今天的演出分四幕。
Act one.
行动一。
Once More, With Feeling.
再次，带着感觉。
In which Jonathan Katz answers the age old question, what happens if you return to your childhood home and it's not so nice, and the current owner tries to sell it to you?
乔纳森·卡茨在其中回答了一个古老的问题：如果你回到童年的家，但它并不那么好，而现在的主人试图把它卖给你，会发生什么？
Act two.
第二幕。
Punk In a Grey Flannel Suit In which a mortgage broker discovers that his old punk band from the '70s is hot in Japan and decides to leave corporate life for a little bit and go back on tour.
《身穿灰色法兰绒西装的朋克》讲述了一位抵押贷款经纪人发现他的 70 年代老朋克乐队在日本很受欢迎，并决定暂时离开公司生活并重新开始巡演。
Act three.
第三幕。
Ich...
哎呀...
Bin...
斌...
Ein...
恩...
Mophead.
拖把头。
A 34 year old man investigates who he was at nine years old, and learns a thing or two that he would just as soon not remember.
一名 34 岁的男子调查了自己九岁时的身份，并了解到了一两件事，但他很快就忘记了。
Act four.
第四幕。
Every day I forget something else.
每天我都会忘记一些别的事情。
A ten year old explains memory with the help of novelist Nicholson Baker.
一个十岁的孩子在小说家尼科尔森·贝克的帮助下解释了记忆。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
You may have heard of this series on Public Radio called Lost and Found Sound, which looks for old tapes to put on the radio.
您可能听说过公共广播电台的这个名为“失物招领声音”的系列节目，该系列节目寻找旧磁带并放在收音机上。
Well, one of the producers who works with that series, Valerie Velardi, knew a man named Jonathan Katz who loves old tapes.
嗯，与该系列合作的制片人之一瓦莱丽·维拉迪 (Valerie Velardi) 认识一个名叫乔纳森·卡茨 (Jonathan Katz) 的人，他喜欢旧磁带。
Loves them so much that he says that it just puts him in a good mood just to be around audio equipment.
他非常喜欢它们，以至于他说只要和音响设备在一起就能让他心情很好。
Naturally they got in touch.
很自然地，他们就联系上了。
Katz is also a kind of minor celebrity in his own right.
卡茨本身也是一位小名人。
He did a TV series for a while about a cartoon psychiatrist called Dr. Katz.
他有一段时间制作了一部关于一位名叫卡茨博士的卡通精神病医生的电视连续剧。
Anyway, Lost and Found Sound had Katz sit down with another one of the producers, a guy named Jay Allison, to play some of these old tapes of Katz's family.
不管怎样，Lost and Found Sound 让 Katz 和另一位制作人 Jay Allison 坐在一起，播放了 Katz 家人的一些旧磁带。
And after they did that, Katz then took his little journey into his childhood a step further.
在他们这样做之后，卡茨又将他的童年之旅又向前推进了一步。
But I'm getting ahead of the story.
但我要先讲故事了。
Here's a few minutes first of him going through his old childhood tapes with Jay Allison.
这是他与杰伊·艾利森一起翻看他童年时期的旧磁带的几分钟。
K, I'm going to put the headphones on and do some serious time traveling.
K，我要戴上耳机，开始认真的时间旅行。
OK, hit play.
好的，点击播放。
[SINGING] Jonathan Katz I think even as a kid I knew how cheap tape was.
[唱歌]乔纳森·卡茨（Jonathan Katz）我想，即使在我还是个孩子的时候，我就知道磁带是多么便宜。
If this was recorded today, there would be phones in the background.
如果今天录制的话，后台就会有电话。
Somebody would be getting a fax.
有人会收到传真。
Somebody else would be checking their email.
其他人会检查他们的电子邮件。
The TV would be on.
电视会开着。
It's kind of sad.
有点悲伤。
Can't hear a kid breathe like this.
听不到孩子这样的呼吸声。
Boy, am I wasting tape.
男孩，我是在浪费磁带吗？
Rabbi Now it gives me great pleasure, on behalf of our entire congregation, to express our very good wishes to Mr. Sidney R.
拉比 现在，我非常高兴地代表我们全体会众向西德尼·R·拉比先生表达我们的良好祝愿。
Katz and to Mrs. Katz upon the Bar Mitzvah this morning of their son Jonathan.
今天早上，卡茨和卡茨夫人在他们儿子乔纳森的成人礼上致辞。
To the ten thousands of the clans of Israel--
致以色列万族——
That's me.
那就是我。
Young Jonathan Katz Verily I give you good doctrine--
年轻的乔纳森·卡茨 我确实给你很好的教义——
I said "verily." Young Jonathan Katz Bring us back to thee, oh Lord--
我说“确实”。年轻的乔纳森·卡茨 带我们回到你身边，主啊——
Lohd.
洛赫德。
Young Jonathan Katz Renew our days as of old.
年轻的乔纳森·卡茨 (Jonathan Katz) 让我们的日子焕然一新。
[SINGING IN HEBREW]
[用希伯来语唱歌]
I have a New York accent in Hebrew, which is pretty tough.
我的希伯来语有纽约口音，很难听。
Until I did my HBO special, this was the most money I ever got paid to perform live.
在我制作 HBO 特别节目之前，这是我现场表演获得的最高报酬。
Just going to move it ahead a little bit, just want to make sure-- whoa.
只是要把它向前推进一点，只是想确定一下——哇。
Sorry about that.
对此感到抱歉。
Eatin' food.
吃东西了
Young Jonathan Katz What kind of eatin' food?
年轻的乔纳森·卡茨吃什么食物？
The kind that people eat.
人吃的那种。
Young Jonathan Katz OK.
年轻的乔纳森·卡茨 好的。
Let's hear this recording, OK?
我们来听一下这段录音，好吗？
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
I have not changed one bit.
我一点也没有改变。
That's what life is like at my house.
我家的生活就是这样。
We live, we videotape, and then we watch what we just did.
我们生活，我们录像，然后我们观看我们刚刚所做的事情。
And I have this obnoxious habit now with my daughter and her friends, both daughters.
现在我和我的女儿和她的朋友（两个女儿）都有这个令人讨厌的习惯。
They can just be sitting around with a bunch of friends and I walk in with a tape recorder, and I go, "OK, talent show!" You know, which if you're 17, is pretty uncomfortable.
他们可以和一群朋友坐在一起，我拿着录音机走进去，然后我说：“好吧，才艺表演！”你知道，如果你才 17 岁，这会很不舒服。
Jonathan Katz now joins us from his home studio in Boston.
乔纳森·卡茨 (Jonathan Katz) 现在从他位于波士顿的家庭工作室加入我们。
Jonathan, how much taping do you do over the course of the week?
乔纳森，你这一周做了多少录音？
Talent show!
才艺表演！
You know, I pretty much am always rolling.
你知道，我几乎总是在滚动。
I'm recording something or listening to something.
我正在录制一些东西或听一些东西。
I'm surrounded by my past on audiotape.
我被录音带上的过去包围着。
See, but how many hours of tape do you have there in your house?
你看，你家里有多少小时的磁带？
I would say-- you know, and it's very hard for me to give you an accurate estimate.
我想说——你知道，我很难给你一个准确的估计。
But I would say 5,000 hours.
但我会说 5,000 小时。
And how much of it have you actually gone back to?
你实际上又回顾了多少？
Well, if I'm sitting in my office in my house writing something, rather than going downstairs and having a cup of coffee, I put on an old reel-to-reel tape and see what I find.
好吧，如果我坐在家里的办公室里写东西，而不是下楼喝杯咖啡，我会放上旧的卷轴到卷轴磁带，看看我发现了什么。
Let's play one of the recent recordings you've made.
让我们播放您最近录制的一段录音。
Let me just get this queued up.
让我把这个排队。
Now when I see a picture hanging on the wall, it just reminds me of what could have been
现在，当我看到墙上挂着一幅画时，它只会让我想起本来可以发生的事情
Same with me.
和我一样。
That's what I was going to say.
这就是我想说的。
You know?
你知道？
And I still hope that maybe someday we can get together--
我仍然希望也许有一天我们可以聚在一起——
Same with me.
和我一样。
Jonathan Katz And make up for lost time.
乔纳森·卡茨 弥补失去的时间。
And thinking of the ways that I could make you stay--
并思考如何让你留下来——
It's an odd choice of subject for a song to sing with your nine year old daughter.
对于你九岁的女儿来说，选择一首歌的主题是一个奇怪的选择。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I mean, you could have "The Wheels on the Bus Go Round and Round" only so many times.
嗯，我的意思是，你只能让“公共汽车上的轮子转来转去”很多次。
You know?
你知道？
After digging up those old tapes and talking about them, you decided to get together with your sister Phyllis and return to your childhood home in Brooklyn.
在挖掘出那些旧磁带并谈论它们之后，你决定与你的妹妹菲利斯重聚并返回你童年时在布鲁克林的家。
And it was it Sheepshead Bay?
是羊头湾吗？
Sheepshead Bay was where we lived.
羊头湾是我们住的地方。
My earliest childhood memories were of our house in Sheepshead Bay.
我最早的童年记忆是我们在羊头湾的房子。
And how had it been since you'd been back?
你回来后感觉怎么样？
I don't think I'd been there since the 1950s.
我想自 20 世纪 50 年代以来我就没有去过那里了。
It was a dirt road the last time I was there.
上次我去那儿的时候，那是一条土路。
A part of Brooklyn was a dirt road in the 1950s?
20 世纪 50 年代，布鲁克林的一部分是土路？
Why don't we turn right at Avenue 1 and go past your school to Ocean Avenue, OK?
我们为什么不在 1 号大道右转，经过你的学校到海洋大道，好吗？
Just explain the setup in the car when you went back to Brooklyn.
当你回到布鲁克林时，解释一下车里的设置。
Who was there?
谁在那里？
I was driving with my sister Phyllis and an engineer.
我和姐姐菲利斯以及一名工程师一起开车。
God.
上帝。
Marilyn Maybloom lived down whatever avenue it was.
玛丽莲·梅布卢姆住在任何一条街上。
So you drove back to the old neighborhood, and you drive to a series of different houses that you had lived in.
所以你开车回到原来的社区，然后你开车到你曾经住过的一系列不同的房子。
What was it like to knock on these doors of these different houses, trying to talk your way in?
敲这些不同房子的门，试图说服自己进去是什么感觉？
That was fun.
那很有趣。
And I think Phyllis has sort of a distorted view of my celebrity.
我认为菲利斯对我的名人有某种扭曲的看法。
That it was going to impress people, the fact that I used to be a cartoon.
我曾经是一个卡通人物，这会给人们留下深刻的印象。
Right.
正确的。
You say to one person after another, I used to have this TV show.
你对一个又一个的人说，我以前看过这个电视剧。
And not a one of them seems to have watched that show.
他们中似乎没有一个人看过那个节目。
Who are you?
你是谁？
Jonathan Katz I'm Jonathan Katz.
乔纳森·卡茨 我是乔纳森·卡茨。
We used to live in this building.
我们以前住在这栋楼里。
And I had a TV show called Dr. Katz remember a few years back?
几年前我看过一个叫卡茨博士的电视节目？
And I'm here with my sister Phyllis out of sentiment.
我和妹妹菲利斯来这里是出于感情。
And we lived on the fifth floor of this building.
我们住在这栋楼的五楼。
Well, if you'll excuse me, we're a little busy.
好吧，请原谅，我们有点忙。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
[INAUDIBLE] But we'll just go up.
[听不清]但我们只会上升。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I guess the most amazing was this guy out of 88th Street.
我想最令人惊奇的是这个来自 88 街的家伙。
When he announced that he couldn't let us in because he's on an international call.
当他宣布他不能让我们进去，因为他正在打国际电话时。
I know.
我知道。
It seems so archaic.
看起来很古老。
Jonathan Katz Like he was the first person to make contact with somebody from another country on the phone.
乔纳森·卡茨 (Jonathan Katz) 好像他是第一个通过电话与其他国家的人取得联系的人。
May I help you?
我可以帮你吗？
Jonathan Katz Oh, yes.
乔纳森·卡茨 哦，是的。
Hi.
你好。
I'm on an international call, so please be quick.
我正在打国际电话，所以请快点。
What is this about?
这是关于什么的？
We used to live here in 1966 and we wanted to see the apartment?
1966 年我们曾经住在这里，我们想看看公寓？
No. I'm speaking to my wife in Switzerland.
不，我正在和我在瑞士的妻子说话。
If we were to come back, would it be possible?
如果我们能够重来，还有可能吗？
Yeah, possibly.
是的，有可能。
Jonathan Katz Sorry to bother you.
乔纳森·卡茨 抱歉打扰您。
Everyone makes an international call.
每个人都拨打国际电话。
It's something to show off about, in his mind.
在他看来，这是值得炫耀的事情。
You finally get into one of the houses.
你终于走进了其中一所房子。
Was there a part of you that was surprised that-- like, in some way, that other people were living in the house?
你是否对其他人住在这所房子里感到惊讶？
Oh, I was shocked.
哦，我很震惊。
I expected to see our furniture and oddly enough, my parents, who were worried sick.
我期待看到我们的家具，奇怪的是，我的父母也担心得要命。
Where have we been?
我们去哪儿了？
But of course, in a way.
但当然，在某种程度上。
Because that's the way it looked the last time you were there.
因为这就是你上次去那里时的样子。
Right.
正确的。
I sort of think of my homes, in Brooklyn especially, as the sets of sitcoms.
我觉得我的家，尤其是布鲁克林的家，就像情景喜剧的布景。
You know, that they're frozen in time.
你知道，它们的时间被冻结了。
But instead we found this guy, Frank Mendez.
但我们却找到了这个人，弗兰克·门德斯。
And the reason he let us in wasn't his sentimentality.
他让我们进去的原因并不是他多愁善感。
It's that it's on the market for $439,000.
它的市场售价为 439,000 美元。
And it's a dump.
这是一个垃圾场。
He was very hospitable.
他非常热情好客。
He showed us around.
他带我们四处参观。
We were in the room where we-- Phillis and I shared a room until we moved to Manhattan.
在我们搬到曼哈顿之前，我们和菲利斯共用一个房间。
We used to live here.
我们曾经住在这里。
Frank Mendez [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and see it.
弗兰克·门德斯 [难以辨认] 看看吧。
In 1949.
1949年。
Where's the bathroom you got locked in?
你被锁在哪里的浴室？
It should be over here, eh?
应该就到这里了吧？
Yeah, when I was a kid, I got locked in the bathroom.
是啊，小时候，我被锁在浴室里。
They had to call the fire department.
他们不得不打电话给消防队。
There's your bathroom.
这是你的浴室。
Jonathan Katz She remembered it as cozy.
乔纳森·卡茨（Jonathan Katz）她记得那是很舒适的。
I remembered it as claustrophobic.
我记得那是幽闭恐惧症。
Let's talk about how you got along with your sister on this trip.
来说说这次旅行你和姐姐相处得怎么样吧。
I want to play you a piece of tape.
我想给你放一盘磁带。
We just passed our old school.
我们刚刚通过了原来的学校。
There's a house similar to this--
有一栋类似这样的房子——
130.
130.
But you wouldn't remember that either.
但你也不会记得这一点。
Do you want to go by there on the way back?
回来的时候要经过那里吗？
Yeah, maybe.
是的，也许吧。
We'll see.
我们拭目以待。
Jonathan Katz Let's head for our mutual memories first.
乔纳森·卡茨（Jonathan Katz）：让我们先去寻找我们共同的回忆吧。
But all these houses, there were beautiful private houses here, are not there.
但所有这些房子，这里曾经有美丽的私人住宅，现在都不在那里了。
You know, I think if you dissect the dialogue, you can see that neither of us are really taking in what the other person is saying.
你知道，我认为如果你仔细分析对话，你会发现我们俩都没有真正理解对方所说的话。
And I'm pretty much making jokes, and whether or not she hears them, even, forget about gets them--
我几乎是在开玩笑，不管她是否听到这些笑话，甚至，忘记它们——
Where's the theater, is it still here?
剧院在哪里，还在吗？
Do you remember how much it used to cost?
你还记得以前花了多少钱吗？
Can you sound a little younger and less Jewish when you ask that question?
当你问这个问题时，你能听起来年轻一点、不那么犹太人吗？
That's strange.
这很奇怪。
Jonathan Katz We're very competitive.
乔纳森·卡茨：我们非常有竞争力。
And especially about our pasts.
尤其是关于我们的过去。
It's almost like revisionists.
这几乎就像修正主义者一样。
She wants her version of the past to be the one that's perceived as the truth.
她希望她对过去的看法被认为是真相。
What's the difference between your sister's version of the past and your version of the past?
你姐姐的过去和你的过去有什么区别？
I believe that there was a second World War.
我相信有过第二次世界大战。
No. I think that her version-- the big difference was that she and I got along when we kids.
不，我认为她的版本——最大的区别是她和我小时候相处得很好。
Yeah.
是的。
She thinks that we were a happier family than I think we were.
她认为我们的家庭比我想象的更幸福。
That's possible.
这是可能的。
It's a nice interpretation.
这是一个很好的解释。
I expected to find some evidence of a happy childhood.
我希望找到一些幸福童年的证据。
When in fact I couldn't really get along with my sister.
事实上我和姐姐相处不好。
You know what's so strange about this trip that you took back to the neighborhood, is you're really dealing with the most potent psychological material possible.
你知道你带回附近的这次旅行有什么奇怪的，你真的在处理最有力的心理材料。
You're going back to the place where you grew up.
你要回到你长大的地方。
You haven't been there in decades.
你已经几十年没有去过那里了。
You'd think it would bring back a flood of memories and feelings, and nothing happens.
你以为这会带回大量的记忆和感受，但什么也没有发生。
It is odd.
这很奇怪。
Well, you know, it's a little bit like this TV show that I made.
嗯，你知道，这有点像我制作的这个电视节目。
And I'm not trying to change the subject.
我并不是想改变话题。
I did a TV show recently about-- it was called Alpha Force.
我最近做了一个电视节目，叫做阿尔法部队。
And the premise was, it was six guys living in a bunker underneath Utah, all specialists in some field.
前提是，有六个人住在犹他州地下的一个掩体里，他们都是某个领域的专家。
I was an electronics specialist.
我是一名电子专家。
And we were set up by the government to do covert operations in foreign countries.
我们是政府设立的，目的是在国外进行秘密行动。
But no one called.
但没有人打电话来。
We're just in the bunker.
我们只是在掩体里。
No one's calling.
没人打电话。
So I suggested we start a book club.
所以我建议我们成立一个读书俱乐部。
And that's kind of where we are now, at this piece.
这就是我们现在所处的位置。
You didn't get what you wanted out of your trip back home.
你在回家的路上并没有得到你想要的东西。
No. Ira Glass What did you want?
不，艾拉·格拉斯 你想要什么？
You said earlier, a part of what you were looking for was just some sign about whether things were happy when you were a kid.
你之前说过，你所寻找的一部分只是关于你小时候事情是否快乐的一些迹象。
What would you have heard on these tapes, or seen in the old neighborhood, that would have given you it?
你会在这些磁带中听到什么，或者在老邻居中看到什么，这会给你带来它？
You know, if I had been able to rip away at the wallpaper in that house, and see the words written by me-- "Sweet God, life is so good." I mean, I look at my 18 year old daughter, and I see how unbelievably alive and happy she is.
你知道，如果我能撕下那间房子的壁纸，看到我写下的文字——“亲爱的上帝，生活真是太美好了。”我的意思是，当我看着我 18 岁的女儿时，我发现她是多么的充满活力和幸福。
And I guess that's the feeling that I'm looking for.
我想这就是我正在寻找的感觉。
You mean, when you listen back through these tapes?
你是说，当你回听这些磁带时？
Yeah.
是的。
That I'm looking for evidence that I, too used to be that happy and alive.
我正在寻找证据证明我也曾经如此快乐和充满活力。
You know, looking at a black and white photograph of that house with my father and my mother, and me and my cousins and my sister sitting on the steps might be more potent than actually sitting on those steps.
你知道，看着那栋房子的黑白照片，我和我的父亲、我的母亲、我、我的表兄弟姐妹和我的妹妹坐在台阶上，可能比实际坐在那些台阶上更有效。
Comedian Jonathan Katz.
喜剧演员乔纳森·卡茨。
Act Two: Punk In A Grey Flannel Suit Ira Glass Act Two.
第二幕：穿着灰色法兰绒西装的朋克艾拉·格拉斯第二幕。
Punk In a Grey Flannel Suit.
灰色法兰绒西装的朋克。
David Philp is the president of a mortgage brokerage firm in Beverly Hills.
大卫·菲尔普是比佛利山庄一家抵押贷款经纪公司的总裁。
As you might imagine, in Beverly Hills, they handle rather large mortgages.
正如您可能想象的那样，在比佛利山庄，他们处理相当大的抵押贷款。
He dresses neatly in beautiful clothes.
他穿着整齐漂亮的衣服。
He has clean-cut hair.
他有一头剪得很干净的头发。
But in the 1970s, in his native England, he was in a punk band called the Automatics, which was never really a big commercial success, but known and respected in the history of the punk movement there by people who care about these kinds of things.
但在 20 世纪 70 年代，在他的祖国英格兰，他加入了一支名为“Automatics”的朋克乐队，这支乐队从未在商业上取得过真正的巨大成功，但在朋克运动的历史上却受到关心此类事物的人们的熟知和尊重。
And last year, through an odd set of connections, he ended up revisiting his teenage years for the first time by going back on tour in a version of his band in Japan.
去年，通过一系列奇怪的联系，他最终第一次重温了自己的青少年时代，随自己乐队的一个版本在日本进行了巡演。
Here is how something like that happens.
类似的事情是这样发生的。
I mentioned it to a client.
我向一位客户提到过。
And I said, well, I played in a punk group when I was a kid.
我说，好吧，我小时候参加过一个朋克乐队。
And he said, oh, really?
他说，哦，真的吗？
And he's interested.
他很感兴趣。
And then the next day, he sent me a copy of an eBay auction, and said, is this you?
第二天，他给我发了一份 eBay 拍卖的副本，并说，这是你吗？
It was.
是的。
And I watched this auction.
我观看了这次拍卖。
I watched the price shoot through the roof.
我看着价格飞涨。
And then I began to realize, wait a minute!
然后我开始意识到，等一下！
I'm collectible.
我是有收藏价值的
Let's get down to brass tacks here.
让我们开始讨论正题吧。
How much were you guys?
你们当时多少钱？
I think that one actually went at $48.
我认为其中一件的实际售价为 48 美元。
I particularly liked looking at all those sort of other groups that were going at $0.25.
我特别喜欢看那些价格为 0.25 美元的其他团体。
You know, music business offerings along punk lines that I thought, what a load of nonsense, at the time.
你知道，当时我认为沿着朋克风格的音乐商业产品是多么无稽之谈。
And it was good to see that their records weren't valued years later.
很高兴看到他们的记录几年后没有得到重视。
I mean, it was--
我的意思是，那是——
Wow.
哇。
That history came out on the right side.
这段历史是正确的。
Yes.
是的。
That there is a sort of Darwinism in record-collecting.
记录收集存在某种达尔文主义。
What happened next?
接下来发生了什么？
David Philp I went to go see Ricky, the drummer.
大卫·菲尔普 我去看鼓手瑞奇。
And Ricky collected everything.
瑞奇收集了一切。
And he very kindly lent me these two scrapbooks.
他非常好心地借给我这两本剪贴簿。
So I took pictures and things out of there.
所以我在那里拍了照片和东西。
I just had a friend put it up on a website.
我刚刚有一个朋友把它放在网站上。
And then I got an email from Fifi in Japan, saying, oh, I play in a Japanese punk rock band, and--
然后我收到一封来自日本菲菲的电子邮件，说，哦，我在日本朋克摇滚乐队中演奏，而且——
Fifi's a name of a person?
菲菲是一个人的名字吗？
David Philp Yes.
大卫·菲尔普 是的。
--and your record changed my life.
——你的记录改变了我的生活。
Wow.
哇。
David Philp And he found out through the website that there was an unreleased album.
David Philp 他通过网站发现还有一张未发行的专辑。
So he asked if he put me in touch with Toshio Iijima of Base Records.
于是他问我是否可以帮我联系 Base Records 的 Toshio Iijima。
We struck up a deal.
我们达成了协议。
And then they said, well, would you come over here and play some gigs to, you know, promote?
然后他们说，好吧，你能来这里做一些演出来宣传吗？
So you go to tour.
那你就去旅游吧。
How old are you at that point?
那时你多大了？
45.
45.
Ira Glass A little bit of grey hair coming in, perhaps?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）也许长出了一点白发？
A little bit of grey hair coming in.
一点点白发开始出现。
And I really wasn't sure whether I'd still be able to do it.
我真的不确定我是否还能做到。
Because I hadn't played those songs in 22 years.
因为我已经有 22 年没听过那些歌了。
You know?
你知道？
Not in my shower.
不在我的淋浴间。
Not to anyone.
不适合任何人。
I mean, prior to being married-- I mean, I remember dating women for a year who never knew that I played.
我的意思是，在结婚之前——我的意思是，我记得和女人约会了一年，她们从来不知道我打球。
Had ever played.
曾经玩过。
It wouldn't even come up?
甚至都不会出现吗？
David Philp Wouldn't come up, really.
大卫·菲尔普 真的不会出现。
I mean, I'd have a guitar hanging around, but lots of other guys did, too.
我的意思是，我身边有一把吉他，但很多其他人也有。
Would you ever pick up the guitar and play for yourself?
你会拿起吉他自己弹奏吗？
Yes.
是的。
I wrote a lot of songs for my dog during this period.
这段时间我为我的狗写了很多歌曲。
"We're Going to the Park" was a big favorite.
“我们去公园”是最受欢迎的。
To be followed by that hit, "Who's A Good Boy?"
接下来是热门歌曲“谁是好男孩？”
It is?
这是？
David Philp [PANTS] What a, what a good boy!
大卫·菲尔普 [裤子] 多好的一个好孩子！
So we went over there October the sixth.
所以我们十月六号去了那里。
I took my wife.
我带走了我的妻子。
Which possibly was a miscalculation, but-- No, it was a good thing to take my wife, because--
这可能是一个误判，但是——不，带走我的妻子是件好事，因为——
You were approached by dozens of teenage girls?
有几十个十几岁的女孩接近过你吗？
So what happened the first night you went onstage?
那么你上台的第一个晚上发生了什么？
Well, there was just the announcement, the light, and sort of a moment's silence, which lasted forever.
嗯，只有公告、灯光和短暂的沉默，这种沉默一直持续到永远。
And then sort of-- out at the back I heard the opening riff of "When the Tanks Roll Over Poland." And there was just this whole ignition of energy from the club, in front.
然后，在后面，我听到了“当坦克滚过波兰时”的开场即兴重复段。前面的俱乐部充满了能量。
And all these kids just started going mad.
所有这些孩子都开始发疯。
And it just clicked right in.
它就这样点击进去了。
It felt like I was in an Automatics cover band or something like that.
感觉就像我在自动翻唱乐队或类似的乐队中。
Because it was so long ago, I didn't feel that association as the writer.
因为时间太久远了，作为作者我并没有感受到那种联想。
Because I wrote the material and all that.
因为我写了材料等等。
I didn't have that association as the writer anymore.
我不再有作为作家的那种联系了。
See, but I would wonder, if as you sing the songs, the conviction of the writing returns to you, and you remember all the feelings of it.
瞧，但我想知道，当你唱这些歌曲时，写作的信念是否又回到你身边，你是否记得它的所有感受。
Did that happen?
有这样的事发生吗？
There's a muscle memory that was there.
那里有肌肉记忆。
You know, the movements are all locked in the lyrics and the beat and the parts.
你知道，动作都被锁定在歌词、节拍和声部里。
And as I played them, they all started to come out, and it was just like being a marionette or something.
当我玩它们时，它们都开始出来，就像是一个木偶什么的。
Here you punch the air.
在这里你打空气。
There you sort of bring it, remind the drummer to come down.
你把它带到那里，提醒鼓手下来。
And there you point at the guitarist for the solo.
然后你指着独奏的吉他手。
Had you forgotten the thrill of being onstage?
你忘记了站在舞台上的兴奋吗？
Yes.
是的。
I'd forgotten what it was to have the audience right there.
我已经忘记了有观众在场是什么感觉。
Before this, had you ever performed a punk show sober?
在此之前，你曾清醒地表演过朋克表演吗？
Never.
绝不。
Well, unless I was taking the antibiotics.
好吧，除非我服用抗生素。
So much information contained in such a brief sentence.
如此简短的一句话，包含了如此多的信息。
No, it actually was one of the great paradoxes, really, I suppose.
不，我认为这实际上是最大的悖论之一。
That it was great to do it sober.
清醒地做这件事真是太好了。
Were there moments onstage where you felt your age?
在舞台上有没有让你感觉到自己年龄的时刻？
where you just thought, oh--
你刚才想的地方，哦——
Towards the end, you really feel yourself.
到最后，你才真正感受到自己。
Because it's like a sauna up there.
因为那里就像桑拿房一样。
I mean, there's so much energy going around.
我的意思是，周围有如此多的能量。
And it's louder than bombs.
而且声音比炸弹还大。
So your wife had never seen you do this before.
所以你的妻子以前从未见过你这样做。
There must've been a part of you which felt pleased that she could see it?
你心里一定有一部分因为她能看到它而感到高兴吧？
Yes.
是的。
I felt kind of like I'd become this other person.
我感觉自己好像变成了另外一个人。
And when I was over there, my life over here seemed to have a sort of almost dreamlike substance.
当我在那里的时候，我在这里的生活似乎有一种近乎梦幻的实质。
And then of course as soon as I go back, the events in October, in Japan, just began to assume that mantle of dream.
当然，我一回去，十月份在日本发生的事件就开始承担起梦想的责任。
I did three shows.
我做了三场演出。
Two in Tokyo and one in Kyoto.
东京有两间，京都有一间。
And all three, just great.
这三个都很棒。
David Philp All three sold out.
大卫·菲尔普 三张都卖完了。
In Kyoto, we set a club record for the largest attendance ever.
在京都，我们创下了俱乐部有史以来出席人数最多的记录。
It was so packed, we couldn't actually get offstage.
现场太拥挤了，我们实际上无法下台。
The only way out was over.
唯一的出路已经结束了。
I had to sling myself over the audience, and they carried me on their hands back through the crowd, and gently deposited me at the stage door.
我不得不把自己吊到观众席上，他们用手背着我穿过人群，轻轻地将我放在舞台门口。
So this is your last gig?
所以这是你最后一次演出了？
That was your last gig?
那是你最后一次演出吗？
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass And it ended with the entire audience lifting you up, and passing you bodily out, and gently depositing you out of the club?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：最后，整个观众把你举起来，然后把你的身体传出去，然后轻轻地把你送出俱乐部？
Well, not out of the club, but to the stage door, yes.
嗯，不是走出俱乐部，而是到舞台门口，是的。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
I don't think I've ever really been lifted by a mob of teenagers and people in their 20s.
我认为我从来没有真正被一群青少年和 20 多岁的人所鼓舞过。
What exactly is that like?
那到底是什么样的？
Well, in Kyoto, I felt pretty good about it.
嗯，在京都，我感觉还不错。
I'm not sure how I would have felt about it in London in 1977, where the scene was incredibly violent.
我不确定如果是 1977 年的伦敦，我会作何感想，当时的场景极其暴力。
Whenever you played, you were just as likely to get beaten up as you were to get paid.
每当你玩游戏时，你被殴打的可能性就和你获得报酬的可能性一样。
Describe what it was like to come back after the tour.
描述一下旅行结束后回来的感觉。
It was hard for me to get motivated again to do my business after the tour.
巡演结束后，我很难再次有动力去做我的生意。
It just wasn't as thrilling as being on the a in front of cheering--
只是没有站在欢呼声前那么激动——
Well, not many things are.
好吧，很多事情都不是。
And it was a bit like, sort of, my dad's generation.
这有点像我父亲那一代。
After growing up as a kid, being fired on in World War II and all that kind of stuff.
小时候长大后，在第二次世界大战中被炮火袭击以及诸如此类的事情。
It was kind of hard getting it up for working in the shipping industry again.
再次在航运业工作有点困难。
Shortly after I got back, Steve Lillywhite was in town.
我回来后不久，史蒂夫·利利怀特就到了城里。
And that is?
那是？
David Philp He was the original producer.
大卫·菲尔普 (David Philp) 他是原制片人。
And he was also my roommate at the time that all the Automatics stuff was going on.
当时他也是我的室友，当时所有的自动装置的事情都在进行。
And now he's incredibly successful.
现在他取得了令人难以置信的成功。
He does, like, U2, Dave Matthews, and all that stuff.
他喜欢 U2、Dave Matthews 等等。
And anyway, he was in town, and he had some time.
不管怎样，他在城里，而且有时间。
And so we hung out together for a couple of days.
于是我们一起出去玩了几天。
And Hunter was off.
亨特下场了。
Hunter, my wife.
亨特，我的妻子。
So we got to hang out.
所以我们必须出去玩。
And we talked a little about the old days.
我们聊了一些过去的事。
And he told me, Big Paul from Specs does catering.
他告诉我，Specs 的 Big Paul 是做餐饮的。
And Nigel from the Members is in Australia now.
会员的奈杰尔现在在澳大利亚。
And Walter from the Heartbreakers, he's a stockbroker in Manhattan.
还有来自《Heartbreakers》的沃尔特，他是曼哈顿的一名股票经纪人。
So I think I got to see, we don't get what we deserve.
所以我想我必须看到，我们没有得到我们应得的。
We get what we get.
我们得到我们得到的。
And we have to be OK with that.
我们必须接受这一点。
David Philp, lead singer of the Automatics.
大卫·菲尔普（David Philp），自动乐队主唱。
Though he has not quit his day job, he's been recording in the studio lately, and hopes to tour Germany in the fall.
尽管他还没有辞去日常工作，但最近他一直在录音室录音，并希望在秋季前往德国巡演。
Why is it that the Axis powers are the ones who are going for this music right now?
为什么轴心国现在正在追求这种音乐？
What is that about?
那是关于什么的？
Coming up, a famous novelist and actress from the TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
即将登场的是电视剧《吸血鬼猎人巴菲》中的著名小说家和演员。
The impossibility of time and memory and a babysitter.
时间、记忆和保姆都是不可能的。
It's action, action, action, believe me, in just one minute, from Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续时，这是行动，行动，行动，相信我，只需一分钟，来自国际公共广播电台。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来关于该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Return to Childhood.
今天的节目是《回到童年》。
Stories of people revisiting the past, what they find there, what they do not find there.
人们重温过去的故事，他们在那里发现了什么，在那里找不到什么。
We have arrived at act three of our show.
我们已经到了演出的第三幕了。
And this act is the story of how one of the producers of this program made a decision to return to his childhood.
而这一幕讲述的是该节目的一位制作人如何决定回到童年的故事。
Alex Blumberg went searching for somebody named Susan Jordan, who he and his sister Kate and their parents knew for about a year when he was growing up in Cincinnati.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）去寻找一个名叫苏珊·乔丹（Susan Jordan）的人，当他在辛辛那提长大时，他和他的妹妹凯特（Kate）以及他们的父母认识这个人大约一年了。
These are the things that I remember about Susan Jordan.
这些是我对苏珊·乔丹的记忆。
Me and her sitting in the back room, telling her about the day camp I went to that summer.
我和她坐在后面的房间里，告诉她那年夏天我去的日间营的事情。
I can't get myself to shut up.
我无法让自己闭嘴。
"And they had alligators, and snakes," I can hear myself telling her.
“他们有鳄鱼和蛇，”我可以听到自己告诉她。
"And this one time, this one alligator got out, and the counselor had to catch it." And on and on, like that.
“这一次，这只鳄鱼逃了出来，辅导员不得不抓住它。”就这样，不断地。
Me and Susan flipping through one of those Time Life books.
我和苏珊正在翻阅一本《时代生活》的书。
Rock and Roll Through the Decades: The Sixties.
几十年来的摇滚乐：六十年代。
She has long, brown hair.
她有一头棕色的长发。
She's incredibly skinny.
她瘦得令人难以置信。
It's 1975.
现在是 1975 年。
She's wearing bell bottom Levis, a faded jean jacket.
她穿着一件李维斯喇叭裤和一件褪色的牛仔夹克。
She points to a picture of a bloated man in a powder blue rhinestone jumpsuit sitting cross-legged on a stage before a crowd of crying women.
她指着一张照片，照片上是一名身材臃肿的男子，身穿粉蓝色莱茵石连身裤，盘腿坐在舞台上，面前是一群哭泣的女性。
"That's my favorite picture of Elvis," she says.
“这是我最喜欢的猫王照片，”她说。
This information seems somehow personal and important.
这些信息似乎是私人的且重要的。
Me and Susan riding in her car.
我和苏珊坐在她的车里。
I'm going through this phase where I'm trying to notice things.
我正在经历这个阶段，我试图注意到一些事情。
So when we pull up to a stoplight, I start trying to notice the guy on the motorcycle next to us.
因此，当我们停在红绿灯前时，我开始注意我们旁边摩托车上的那个人。
He apparently doesn't want to be noticed, especially by a peculiar nine year old staring at him through the passenger window.
他显然不想被人注意到，尤其是一个奇怪的九岁孩子透过乘客车窗盯着他看。
"What are you looking at?" he sneers.
“你在看什么？”他冷笑道。
I turn around fast and face the dashboard.
我快速转身，面向仪表板。
"Did he say something to you?" Susan asks.
“他有对你说什么吗？”苏珊问道。
"What did he say to you?"
“他对你说什么了？”
"Nothing.
“没什么。
He didn't say anything.
他什么也没说。
It's fine.
没关系。
Look!
看！
Green light!"
绿灯！”
"Tell me what he said.
“告诉我他说了什么。
What did he say to you?"
他对你说什么了？”
I stay silent.
我保持沉默。
I know if I tell her what he said, she'll get out of the car and try to kick his ass.
我知道如果我告诉她他说的话，她会下车并试图踢他的屁股。
Which scares me, but comforts me, too.
这让我害怕，但也让我感到安慰。
Susan Jordan was our babysitter.
苏珊乔丹是我们的保姆。
She watched my sister and me every day after school for a couple hours until our parents got home from work.
她每天放学后都会看着我和姐姐几个小时，直到我们的父母下班回家。
We didn't know any adults like her and we loved her.
我们不认识像她这样的成年人，但我们爱她。
The summer before I started fifth grade, after being with us for a year, Susan got another job.
我开始五年级之前的那个夏天，在和我们在一起一年后，苏珊找到了另一份工作。
The last time I saw her was Christmas Eve 1982.
我最后一次见到她是1982年的圣诞夜。
I'm 16, a cashier Thriftway Foods, a supermarket in Cincinnati, where I lived.
我今年 16 岁，是我居住的辛辛那提一家超市 Thriftway Foods 的收银员。
The place is packed.
这个地方挤满了人。
All 25 registers are going.
所有 25 个寄存器都将运行。
People are lined up halfway to the back of the store.
人们在商店后面排了一半的队。
I look up, and there's Susan Jordan.
我抬头一看，是苏珊·乔丹。
She smiles.
她微笑着。
We talk.
我们说话。
She doesn't have many items, so I check them through as slowly as I possibly can.
她的物品不多，所以我尽可能慢地检查它们。
I can't recall one thing we say to each other, although I remember being distinctly disappointed to hear that she's married.
我不记得我们彼此说过什么，尽管我记得听到她结婚的消息时感到非常失望。
She hands me some kind of business card, her husband's, probably, something having to do with the building of redwood decks.
她递给我一张名片，可能是她丈夫的，与建造红木甲板有关。
She seems happy.
她看起来很高兴。
Meanwhile there's a line of last-minute Christmas shoppers mounting behind her.
与此同时，她身后排起了最后一刻圣诞购物者的队伍。
I tell her to hold on, I'll try to get my break, we can catch up.
我告诉她坚持住，我会尽力休息，我们可以赶上。
She says great, and steps aside.
她说太好了，然后退到一边。
I keep signaling to my manager, but there's no one to relieve me.
我一直向我的经理发出信号，但没有人来接替我。
Five, ten, fifteen minutes pass.
五分钟、十分钟、十五分钟过去了。
I keep glancing behind at Susan, making apologetic gestures.
我不断地回头看着苏珊，做出道歉的手势。
I can still remember her standing there, holding her one bag of groceries, smiling back at me.
我仍然记得她站在那里，手里拿着一袋杂货，对我微笑。
Finally she taps me on the shoulder.
最后她拍了拍我的肩膀。
"I have to go," she says.
“我得走了，”她说。
"But I come in here all the time.
“但我一直来这里。
I'm sure I'll see you around."
我确信我会在附近见到你。”
I worked at Thriftway for two more years.
我在 Thriftway 又工作了两年。
I never saw Susan Jordan again.
我再也没有见过苏珊·乔丹。
It drives me crazy that I never saw her again.
我再也没有见过她，这让我发疯。
If I hadn't run into her at the store, I don't think I'd care.
如果我没有在商店遇到她，我想我不会在意。
But somehow, having her play what, to me, seemed like a huge role in my life when I was a kid, and then getting just a taste of what it would be like to talk with her as a peer-- I've never forgotten that moment.
但不知怎的，当我还是个孩子的时候，让她扮演对我来说似乎是我生活中的一个重要角色，然后尝到与她作为同龄人交谈的滋味——我永远不会忘记那一刻。
I know it's ridiculous.
我知道这很荒谬。
But after years of thinking about her, imagining what she's up to, wondering if she ever thinks about me, I decide to find her.
但经过多年的思念她，想象她在做什么，想知道她是否想过我，我决定找到她。
[PHONE RINGING] Alex Blumberg I start with my only lead.
[电话铃声] Alex Blumberg 我从我唯一的线索开始。
The one former employer of hers that I know.
我认识的她的一位前雇主。
I do, I do.
我愿意，我愿意。
Alex Blumberg You remember Susan Jordan, right?
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg） 你还记得苏珊·乔丹（Susan Jordan），对吧？
Susan Jordan.
苏珊乔丹.
Yes, it's ringing a bell, but I can't place it.
是的，它在响，但我无法放置它。
She was our babysitter?
她是我们的保姆？
Alex's Mom Oh.
亚历克斯的妈妈哦。
OK.
好的。
Chicken Legs and Mophead.
鸡腿和拖把头。
One of the many ideas that Susan introduced to our household was the concept of the nickname.
苏珊向我们家介绍的众多想法之一就是昵称的概念。
I think that's all I want to say about Chicken Legs and Mophead.
我想这就是我想说的关于鸡腿和拖把头的全部内容。
I'd gone to my mother to fill in gaps in my memory of Susan, but she didn't remember much more than I did.
我去找妈妈填补我对苏珊的记忆空白，但她记得的并不比我多。
She was a babysitter that really had more of a relationship with you two than she did with us.
她是一名保姆，与你们两个的关系确实比与我们的关系更多。
She seemed to have a very meaningful relationship with you.
她似乎与你有着非常有意义的关系。
Almost the kind of relationship you might have another adult.
几乎就像你与另一个成年人之间的关系一样。
That was about the extent of it.
事情的范围就到此为止了。
And she never stayed around when I came home.
当我回家时，她从来没有留下来。
She was out of there.
她已经离开那里了。
What talking to my mom did do was make me look at my childhood memories from an adult perspective.
与妈妈交谈确实让我从成人的角度看待我的童年记忆。
Like for example, what I remembered about her living situation.
比如我记得她的生活情况。
I didn't get the impression that she was close to her family.
我没有感觉到她和她的家人很亲近。
I got the impression that she was very much out on her own very young.
我的印象是她很小的时候就非常孤独。
I think she must have been in the process of breaking with her own parents during that time.
我想那段时间她一定正在和自己的父母决裂。
That's, yeah.
就是这样，是的。
See, my memory is that like, she was in high school, right?
你看，我的记忆是这样的，她是高中生吧？
She went to Withrow.
她去了威罗。
But I also remember her living on her-- for some reason I remember her own house.
但我也记得她靠她生活——出于某种原因，我记得她自己的房子。
And the reason I thought she lived by herself was we went to her house or her boyfriend's-- we had to go pick something up somewhere, and we were in her car.
我认为她一个人住的原因是我们去了她家或她男朋友家——我们必须去某个地方取东西，而且我们在她的车里。
This big blue Duster, I think it was.
我想就是这个蓝色的大除尘器。
And her boyfriend was there.
她的男朋友也在场。
And her boyfriend had let the cats out, and they were gone.
她的男朋友把猫放了出来，然后它们就消失了。
And she was furious.
她很生气。
And then I got in the car, and then she slammed the door, and I think we peeled out.
然后我上了车，然后她关上了门，我想我们就走了。
And he was sort of standing there and trying to reason with her, and we were out of there.
他站在那里试图跟她讲道理，然后我们就离开了那里。
Well, what did you think?
嗯，你觉得怎么样？
Alex Blumberg It made me-- I think I felt sad for her.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）这让我——我想我为她感到难过。
I remember thinking-- and this is sort of in retrospect.
我记得我在想——这有点像回顾。
But I think I had some sort of inkling of this idea at the time, and I'm just sort of now realizing it.
但我想我当时对这个想法有某种暗示，现在我才意识到这一点。
But I think-- I remember thinking that he was one of the few people that she had in her life, and she couldn't even really depend on him.
但我想——我记得我想他是她生命中为数不多的人之一，她甚至不能真正依赖他。
Yeah, you were probably right.
是的，你可能是对的。
She was a struggler.
她是一个奋斗者。
And you may have been, at that point, at that moment, her only friend.
在那一刻，你可能是她唯一的朋友。
You know?
你知道？
My mom didn't have any idea where I could find Susan, which made things difficult.
我妈妈不知道我在哪里可以找到苏珊，这让事情变得很困难。
Because A, Susan Jordan is a very common name, and B, it's probably not her name anymore.
因为A，苏珊乔丹是一个很常见的名字，而B，这可能不再是她的名字了。
I called the county court records department to find all the Susan Jordans married in Cincinnati.
我打电话给县法院记录部门，发现苏珊·乔丹夫妇都在辛辛那提结婚了。
My mom asked a friend who worked for the city to search all the Cincinnati birth records.
我妈妈让一位在该市工作的朋友搜索辛辛那提的所有出生记录。
I contacted high school alumni associations.
我联系了高中校友会。
I asked friends at high-powered newspapers to run background checks.
我请大报社的朋友进行背景调查。
Finally, there was one former Susan Jordan who stood out.
最后，还有一位前苏珊乔丹脱颖而出。
She seemed the right age.
她看起来年龄合适。
She was married, living in a Cincinnati suburb.
她已婚，住在辛辛那提郊区。
She had a couple of kids.
她有几个孩子。
Her husband was a lawyer.
她的丈夫是一名律师。
I got her number from information.
我从信息中得到了她的电话号码。
And it wasn't until I sat down to call her that it hit me.
直到我坐下来给她打电话时我才意识到。
A phone call from someone you babysat 20 years ago might not be a welcome surprise, but in fact strange and creepy.
20 年前你保姆打来的电话可能并不令人感到意外，但事实上却很奇怪、令人毛骨悚然。
Here I am practicing sounding benign.
我在这里练习听起来友善。
One, two, one, two.
一，二，一，二。
Susan.
苏珊.
Is this Susan Jordan?
这是苏珊·乔丹吗？
Is this Susan Jordan?
这是苏珊·乔丹吗？
Oh god, oh god.
天啊，天啊。
Finally I made the call.
最后我拨通了电话。
[PHONE RINGING]
[电话铃声]
Hello?
你好？
Alex Blumberg Hello.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格 你好。
Hi.
你好。
Is this Susan?
这是苏珊吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Alex Blumberg Hi.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格嗨。
My name is Alex Blumberg and I'm calling from a radio program called This American Life.
我叫亚历克斯·布隆伯格，是通过一个名为“美国生活”的广播节目打来的。
And this is probably a very strange phone call to receive.
这可能是一个非常奇怪的电话。
But I was wondering, first of all, do you remember me?
但我想知道，首先，你还记得我吗？
No. Alex Blumberg It turns out there are a lot of Susan Jordans who don't remember me.
不，亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg） 事实证明，有很多苏珊·乔丹（Susan Jordan）不记得我了。
A lot.
很多。
One guy even called his ex-wife, a former Susan Jordan, and then called me back to tell me she'd never heard of me.
有个人甚至打电话给他的前妻，前苏珊·乔丹，然后又给我回电话告诉我她从未听说过我。
I was getting nowhere by myself.
我自己一事无成。
So I contacted a professional.
于是我联系了专业人士。
One Irving Botwinick, a certified New York City private investigator.
欧文·博特威尼克（Irving Botwick）是一名经过认证的纽约市私家侦探。
Three days after putting him on the case, I got a message saying he'd found her.
委托他处理此案三天后，我收到一条消息，说他找到了她。
I called him back.
我给他回了电话。
I called her this morning early.
今天早上我很早就给她打了电话。
Roughly around 7:30.
大约7点30分左右。
I said, good morning.
我说，早上好。
I'd like to introduce myself.
我想自我介绍一下。
I said my name is so-and-so, and I'm a licensed private investigator in New York, and I'm looking for someone that used to live in Cincinnati, and went to a particular school there, and her name at the time was Susan Jordan.
我说我的名字是某某，我是纽约的一名有执照的私家侦探，我正在寻找一个曾经住在辛辛那提并在那里的一所特定学校上学的人，她当时的名字是苏珊·乔丹。
And she said, that's me.
她说，那就是我。
And I said, OK.
我说，好吧。
And I said, do you know anybody named Alex Blumberg.
我说，你认识一个叫亚历克斯·布隆伯格的人吗？
And right away she, yeah.
她立刻，是的。
I babysat for him.
我替他当保姆。
And the interesting part about the whole thing is she definitely likes you, remembers you, and she's going to call you.
整件事最有趣的部分是她肯定喜欢你，记得你，而且她会给你打电话。
Hello, is this Susan?
你好，这是苏珊吗？
Susan Jordan Yeah.
苏珊·乔丹 是的。
This is Alex Blumberg.
这是亚历克斯·布隆伯格。
Susan Jordan Hi, Alex.
苏珊乔丹嗨，亚历克斯。
How are you doing?
你好吗？
I'm doing OK.
我还好。
How are you?
你好吗？
Susan Jordan Fine.
苏珊·乔丹 很好。
Did you get my email?
你收到我的电子邮件了吗？
I got your email, yeah.
我收到你的电子邮件了，是的。
Susan Jordan Oh, OK.
苏珊·乔丹 哦，好的。
Susan and I talked for over three hours on the phone, catching up, comparing notes.
苏珊和我在电话里聊了三个多小时，互相聊聊，交换意见。
She asked about my sister, and kids that used to live on the street, and our old family dog.
她询问了我姐姐、曾经住在街上的孩子们，以及我们家的老狗。
It was amazing how much she remembered and how much we remembered in common.
令人惊奇的是，她记得那么多，我们也记得那么多共同点。
Even small incidents like the time that we were stopped at the traffic light and I stared too long at the guy on the motorcycle.
即使是一些小事件，比如我们在红绿灯处被拦住，我盯着摩托车上的人看了太久。
I think I remember that.
我想我记得那件事。
Was it on Erie Avenue?
是在伊利大道吗？
Probably, probably.
大概，或许。
And you said, did he say something you?
你说，他对你说了些什么吗？
And I said, no, he didn't say anything to me.
我说，不，他什么也没对我说。
And you said, he said something to you, didn't he?
你说，他对你说了些什么，不是吗？
And you were about to get out of the car and kick that guy's ass.
你正要下车去踢那家伙的屁股。
I'm sure.
我敢肯定。
I think I can remember your face.
我想我能记住你的脸。
I think you were sitting very still with your hands in your lap.
我想你一动不动地坐着，双手放在腿上。
Were you afraid?
你害怕吗？
I was terrified, yeah.
我很害怕，是的。
I didn't know that he would notice, exactly.
确切地说，我不知道他会注意到。
Well, don't worry I would have taken him out.
好吧，别担心我会带他出去。
I had no fear.
我没有恐惧。
I'm telling you.
我告诉你。
Do you remember a time-- it was like maybe six or seven or eight years after you babysat us.
你还记得有一次吗——大概是在你照顾我们六、七、八年后。
And I was working--
而我当时正在工作——
The grocery store?
杂货店？
Yeah, I remember.
是的，我记得。
In Norwood, right?
在诺伍德，对吗？
Yeah.
是的。
I remember.
我记得。
I guess you-- were you bagging my groceries, but I didn't recognize you?
我猜你是在给我装杂货，但我没认出你来？
I don't-- Susan Jordan And then you told me who you were, and then I did.
我不——苏珊·乔丹 然后你告诉我你是谁，然后我就这么做了。
Right.
正确的。
Right.
正确的。
I think you said "Mophead."
我想你说的是“拖把头”。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
I did warp you.
我确实扭曲了你。
Do people still call you that?
人们还这样称呼你吗？
No. Alex Blumberg Susan got married when she was still in college and went to work for the phone company as a repair person.
不。 亚历克斯·布隆伯格 (Alex Blumberg) 苏珊 (Susan) 还在上大学时就结婚了，并在电话公司担任维修工。
She spent the next 20 years or so hanging from a telephone pole, she said.
她说，在接下来的 20 年左右的时间里，她一直吊在电线杆上。
She hated it, but the money was good.
她讨厌这样，但钱很好。
Around the time her first marriage ended, she finally got up the courage to quit and find work using her degree.
在她第一次婚姻结束时，她终于鼓起勇气辞职并利用自己的学位找到工作。
She now teaches at a special school for mentally ill children.
她现在在一所专门为精神病儿童开设的学校任教。
She lives in Florida with her second husband and she seems happy.
她和第二任丈夫住在佛罗里达州，她看起来很幸福。
Of course, when you dive back into the past like this, you find how partial and incomplete your memory is.
当然，当你这样回到过去时，你会发现你的记忆是多么片面和不完整。
First there are the facts you get wrong.
首先是你弄错的事实。
Turns out Susan had been a college freshman when she babysat us, not in high school like I thought.
事实证明，苏珊在照顾我们时还是一名大学新生，而不是像我想象的那样在高中。
My sister remembered she'd ridden a motorcycle.
我姐姐记得她骑过摩托车。
Also not true.
也不是真的。
And the guy who she got in a fight with over the cats, who in my mind was her hairy '70s boyfriend, turned out to be her roommate's boyfriend.
那个和她因为猫吵架的人，在我看来是她毛茸茸的 70 年代男友，结果却是她室友的男朋友。
But besides the facts you change, there are the facts you completely omit.
但除了你改变的事实之外，还有一些你完全忽略的事实。
That fight over the cats?
为猫而战？
Susan had forgotten totally that I'd been there.
苏珊完全忘记了我去过那里。
And it was a little strange, because my presence was the only thing she'd forgotten.
这有点奇怪，因为我的存在是她唯一忘记的事情。
Other details she remembered fine, even the names of the cats themselves.
其他细节她都记得清清楚楚，甚至包括猫本身的名字。
Possum and Tom.
负鼠和汤姆。
We were hillbillies, remember?
我们是乡下人，还记得吗？
But I can't imagine what I took you over there for.
但我无法想象我带你去那里的目的是什么。
I'm sure it was for-- I think we were just running errands.
我确信这是为了——我想我们只是去办事。
You're so lucky.
你真幸运。
Alex Blumberg It's funny, because when I-- like, you know, I remember these very particular incidents.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）这很有趣，因为当我喜欢时，你知道，我会记得这些非常特别的事件。
And that was one of them.
那就是其中之一。
And probably the reason I remember it is because it seemed very significant to you.
我之所以记得它，可能是因为它对你来说非常重要。
I think I sensed, as a kid, that it was really upsetting to you because it-- I think I felt at that time that you didn't really have very many people in your life, at that point, who you could trust.
我想，作为一个孩子，我感觉到这真的让你感到不安，因为我想我当时觉得你的生活中并没有很多可以信任的人。
Oh, I didn't have hardly anybody.
哦，我几乎没有人。
My whole family moved out of town.
我全家搬出了城。
I had no family at all.
我根本就没有家人。
I moved out the day I graduated from high school.
高中毕业那天我就搬了出去。
And I was 17, because I started a year early.
当时我17岁，因为我提前一年开始了。
I just wanted out.
我只是想出去。
And see, I had found out that I got the scholarship.
看，我发现我获得了奖学金。
I packed up that night.
那天晚上我就收拾好了行李。
Because my family was dysfunctional.
因为我的家庭功能失调。
But my mom-- it was pretty bad.
但我妈妈——那真是太糟糕了。
The girl that I lived with-- at that time, she was taking a lot of drugs.
和我住在一起的那个女孩，当时她吸食了大量的毒品。
And her boyfriend.
还有她的男朋友。
And every time I would come home, they would always try to get me to take drugs with them or something.
每次我回家，他们总是试图让我随身携带毒品或其他东西。
And I really didn't do it much at all.
而我真的没有做太多事情。
And it was really tough to come home.
而且回家真的很艰难。
And I guess I must have been suffering a little bit.
我想我一定受了一点苦。
I really missed my little brothers and my little sister, and they were gone.
我真的很想念我的弟弟和妹妹，他们却走了。
And I was, I guess, maybe trying to substitute.
我想，我可能正在尝试替代。
I think maybe that's one of the reasons that I remember, that we remember you so fondly, though.
我想也许这就是我记得我们如此深情地记得你的原因之一。
Because I think it worked both ways.
因为我认为这是双向的。
I think that we felt-- that that did make you feel closer to us.
我认为我们感觉到了——这确实让你感觉离我们更近了。
I think that we responded.
我想我们已经做出了回应。
Well, I was desparately-- I guess I was looking for a family.
嗯，我当时很绝望——我想我是在寻找一个家庭。
But I mean, if only you knew, you probably wouldn't have hired me.
但我的意思是，如果你知道的话，你可能就不会雇用我了。
But I mean, people are complicated.
但我的意思是，人是复杂的。
Now, what I really wanted to do was spend more time with your mom and dad.
现在，我真正想做的是花更多的时间和你的爸爸妈妈在一起。
But I was terrified.
但我很害怕。
I mean, I just couldn't do it.
我的意思是，我就是做不到。
I was too shy.
我太害羞了。
So a lot of times-- I thought they were asking me to stay longer and talk and I would just run out.
所以很多时候——我以为他们是要我多呆一会儿说话，而我就会跑出去。
I'm sure they were.
我确信他们是。
Susan Jordan And they probably thought, what's wrong with her?
苏珊乔丹 他们可能会想，她怎么了？
But I just couldn't do it.
但我就是做不到。
So you sort of talked to us instead, sounds like.
所以听起来你好像是在和我们说话。
Yeah.
是的。
I was comfortable around kids because I had kids in my family.
我在孩子们身边感到很舒服，因为我家里有孩子。
Every time the subject of her hard times came up, I'd hear a subtle hesitancy in Susan's voice.
每次提起她的艰难时刻，我都会从苏珊的声音中听到一丝微妙的犹豫。
At first I thought it was embarrassment, but that wasn't it, exactly.
起初我以为这是尴尬，但事实并非如此。
It wasn't until we'd been talking for hours that I realized what it was.
直到我们聊了几个小时我才意识到那是什么。
She was waiting for the other shoe to drop.
她正在等待另一只鞋落地。
She hasn't forgotten that her past had happened.
她没有忘记，她的过去已经发生了。
She'd just forgotten that I'd witnessed part of it.
她只是忘记了我亲眼目睹了其中的一部分。
And her fear became clear, the one that had been gnawing at her our entire conversation, was that I was calling to say she damaged me by exposing me to it.
她的恐惧变得清晰起来，在我们整个谈话中一直困扰着她的恐惧是，我打电话说她让我暴露在这种情况下伤害了我。
I don't think I was too kind back then.
我不认为我当时太善良了。
Because there was a lot of turmoil in my life and in my family.
因为我的生活和家庭中有很多动荡。
And that's what my fear is, that I might have had some kind of negative impact on people.
这就是我担心的，我可能会对人们产生某种负面影响。
And I know probably I did, on a couple people.
我知道我可能对几个人做过。
But they were my age.
但他们和我同龄。
But you just want to remember, yeah, I was the babysitter.
但你只想记住，是的，我是保姆。
The kids loved me.
孩子们很爱我。
Blah blah blah.
巴拉巴拉巴拉。
I would be devastated if I heard anything different.
如果我听到任何不同的声音，我会感到震惊。
There are parts of your past you don't want to go back to, parts of yourself you don't want to go back to.
过去的某些部分是您不想回到的，您自己的某些部分是您不想回到的。
And for Susan Jordan, the year of her life that I remember is the year she'd just as soon forget.
对于苏珊·乔丹来说，我记得的她生命中的那一年也是她很快就会忘记的一年。
And it turns out, I had also done my best to forget what I was like that year.
事实证明，我也已经尽力去忘记当年的自己了。
I didn't think of myself this way at all, but Susan Jordan reminded me in the gentlest terms possible.
我根本不这么认为自己，但苏珊乔丹尽可能温和地提醒我。
When I was nine, I was anxious and bookish.
当我九岁时，我感到焦虑和书呆子气。
I was kind of uptight.
我有点紧张。
Not to seem as an insult, but I just kept thinking, these kids don't know how to play.
不想显得侮辱，但我只是一直在想，这些孩子不知道怎么玩。
When I went to your rooms, it didn't seem like you had a whole lot of toys.
当我去你的房间时，你似乎没有很多玩具。
I hope I've got this right.
我希望我做对了。
But it just seemed like there were mostly books and more educational things.
但似乎主要是书籍和更具教育意义的东西。
I mean, I remember you had planets in your room and a chemistry set.
我的意思是，我记得你的房间里有行星和一套化学装置。
And I didn't remember that Kate had hardly any dolls.
我不记得凯特几乎没有洋娃娃。
You didn't seem quite as playful as other kids that I had babysat.
你看起来不像我照顾的其他孩子那么顽皮。
Just more serious in general.
总体来说比较严重。
So mainly, I think that's what I did, was try to play.
所以主要是，我认为这就是我所做的，就是尝试演奏。
Perhaps the most amazing thing about this whole story is how little our memories have deceived us about each other, even if they had deceived us about ourselves.
也许整个故事中最令人惊奇的事情是，即使我们的记忆欺骗了我们自己，但我们对彼此的记忆却几乎没有欺骗我们。
As Susan said at one point, each of us remembered what we needed to about the other.
正如苏珊曾经说过的那样，我们每个人都记得我们需要了解对方的什么。
I needed to remember the part of Susan that she doesn't think about much.
我需要记住苏珊不太想的部分。
Her toughness in the face of hardship.
她在困难面前的坚韧。
She said she mostly remembered a side of my family that I just take for granted-- that it was calm in our house.
她说她最记得的是我家的一面，我认为这是理所当然的——我们家里很平静。
That there were books.
那里有书。
There wasn't much fighting.
没有发生太多战斗。
It was the first time in my life where I had ever seen that people lived differently than the way I lived.
这是我一生中第一次看到人们的生活方式与我的生活方式不同。
And that's what I decided I wanted for myself.
这就是我决定我自己想要的。
You can try to return to childhood by looking at photos, or visiting the old neighborhood, or listening to recordings.
你可以通过看照片，或者参观老邻居，或者听录音，尝试回到童年。
Or you can find someone who knew you back then, someone you haven't seen since.
或者您可以找到当时认识您的人，但此后您就再也没有见过。
They still carry within themselves a picture of you that's unclouded by the years in between.
他们身上仍然保留着一张你的照片，没有被岁月所遮蔽。
They'll remember you better than you remember yourself, and you can do the same thing for them.
他们会比你记得自己更记得你，你也可以为他们做同样的事情。
Alex Blumberg.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格。
Act Four: Every Day I Forget Something Else Ira Glass Act Four.
第四幕：我每天都会忘记一些事情 艾拉·格拉斯 第四幕。
Every Day I Forget Something Else.
每天我都会忘记一些事情。
Let's end our program today with one of the ideas we began it with.
让我们以开始时的想法之一来结束今天的计划。
Remember Kayla, the seventh greater who is already aware of how she cannot remember her own past?
还记得凯拉，第七位伟大的人已经意识到她如何记不起自己的过去吗？
Well, this very idea comes up in a novel by Nicholson Baker, a really great and unusual novel called The Everlasting Story of Nory.
嗯，这个想法出现在尼克尔森·贝克的一本小说中，这是一本非常伟大且不寻常的小说，名叫《诺里的永恒故事》。
The book is told from the point of view of a nine year old named Nory who, at some point, talks about how hard it is to remember things.
这本书是从一个名叫诺里（Nory）的九岁孩子的角度讲述的，他在某个时候谈到了记住事情是多么困难。
Actress Michelle Trachtenberg reads a brief passage for us.
女演员米歇尔·崔切伯格为我们朗读了一段简短的段落。
That afternoon, Nory tried to reconstruct every tiny detail of the International Chinese School in her mind.
那天下午，诺里试图在脑海中重现国际中文学校的每一个细节。
She couldn't even remember all the kids in the class.
她甚至不记得班上所有的孩子。
She remembered one very nice girl named Stephie, who left later on, who had a birthday party at her swimming pool where Nory had floundered into the deep end and had gotten about a gallon and a half of water in her lungs and thrown up a tiny bit on the grass.
她记得一个名叫斯蒂芬的非常好的女孩，她后来离开了，她在游泳池里举办了一个生日聚会，诺里在游泳池里挣扎着，进入了深水区，肺部吸入了大约一加仑半的水，并在草地上吐了一点点。
She gave Stephie a pair of tiny glass slippers wrapped up in probably the best wrapping paper she had ever drawn.
她给了斯蒂芬一双小玻璃鞋，里面包裹着可能是她画过的最好的包装纸。
She still thought about those glass slippers.
她仍然想着那双玻璃鞋。
They were paperweights that a glassblower made, but they worked as real doll shoes.
它们是玻璃吹制工制作的镇纸，但它们的作用却是真正的娃娃鞋。
They were amazingly wonderful.
他们太棒了。
It disturbed Nory very much to think that all she was going to know about what happened in her life was not very much at all.
想到自己对生活中发生的事情了解得并不多，诺莉感到非常不安。
You can only really remember the things that happened when you were an older child and the things that happened to you now.
你只能真正记住你小时候发生的事情和现在发生在你身上的事情。
That is, yesterday, or the day before yesterday, or late last week.
也就是说，昨天，或者前天，或者上周末。
You live your life always in the present, and even in the present, this day, dozens and hundreds of little tiny things happen.
你的生活总是活在当下，甚至在当下，这一天，也会发生成百上千的小事。
So many that by the end of the day, you can't make a list of them.
太多了，以至于到一天结束时，你都无法列出它们。
You lose track of them unless something reminds you.
除非有什么东西提醒你，否则你就会失去它们的踪迹。
Say someone says, remember when you dropped your ruler this morning?
假设有人说，还记得你今天早上丢掉尺子的时候吗？
And you do remember.
你确实记得。
But then that is lost in the tangle.
但随后就在混乱中迷失了。
Now, some things you can just accept that you're not going to have the slightest chance of remembering.
现在，有些事情你可以接受，但你不会有丝毫记住的机会。
It would be nice, but you know that it would be basically impossible.
这固然很好，但你知道这基本上是不可能的。
For instance, being in your mother's womb, as it's called.
例如，正如所谓的，在你母亲的子宫里。
Some people thought babies could remember that.
有些人认为婴儿可以记住这一点。
Nory one morning asked Littleguy if he could remember being tucked away in mommy's belly long ago, and he said, "Yes." He said, "It had all things there, in she's tummy.
一天早上，诺里问小家伙是否还记得很久以前被藏在妈妈肚子里的事，他说：“是的。”他说：“所有的东西都在她肚子里。
It had things that were called steam trains.
它有一种叫做蒸汽火车的东西。
It was filled with they.
里面挤满了他们。
Filled with steam trains, city of Truro, Lord of the Isles, the Mallard.
充满蒸汽火车，特鲁罗市，群岛之王，绿头鸭。
Pictures with steam trains, and toy ones, and jumping things.
蒸汽火车、玩具和跳跃物体的图片。
Filled, filled with they."
充满了，充满了他们。”
Well, of course there weren't toy trains in Nory's mother's womb, unless maybe he was a remembering the small intestine chuffing around.
嗯，当然，诺里母亲的子宫里并没有玩具火车，除非他记得小肠在嘎嘎作响。
Maybe he was remembering a freight train of food being digested, going around and around him.
也许他记得一列正在消化的食物的货运列车，在他周围转来转去。
But probably not.
但可能不会。
Still, Nory thought it would be nice if you could think back at least to the age of three.
不过，诺里认为，如果你至少能回想起三岁时，那就太好了。
It shouldn't be impossible.
这应该不是不可能的。
Three was older than Littleguy, and Littleguy could understand an amazing number of things.
三比小家伙年纪大，小家伙能理解的东西多得惊人。
But Nory couldn't go back that far, really, except for a few scribs and scraps.
但诺里确实无法回溯到那么远，除了一些抄写和残片。
She remembered being eight, and back into being seven, and she went pretty much back to five, and then it teetered a little bit.
她记得自己八岁了，又回到了七岁，又几乎回到了五岁，然后就有点摇摇欲坠了。
She only remembered her fourth birthday party, a mermaid party, because she had watched the tape of it a number of times on TV.
她只记得她的四岁生日派对，美人鱼派对，因为她在电视上看过很多次它的录像。
One thing, though, she made a point of remembering and passing onto her older self.
不过，有一件事，她很重视记住并传承过去的自己。
Every year she got a year older, she said to her parents, "Remember when I was five, I said I was five going on six?
每年她长大一岁，她都会对父母说：“还记得我五岁的时候，我说我五岁就要六岁了吗？
Remember when I was six, I said six going on seven?
还记得我六岁时，我说六加七吗？
And when I was seven, I'd be going seven on eight.
当我七岁的时候，我会打七打八。
And then going on eight, on nine?
然后八点、九点？
Well, now I'm going nine on ten." So each year, the list of years got a little longer.
好吧，现在我要去十点九点。”所以每年，年份的清单都会变得更长一些。
But she remembered the earlier times that way by saying the list over.
但她通过把清单念一遍来回忆起早些时候的情况。
Another thing she made sure to bring along every year with her for a long time was the memory that there were many, many little amounts of money that she had found in the car and thought could be hers, but maybe not.
她每年都会长期随身携带的另一件事是，她在车里发现了很多很多小钱，她认为这些钱可能是她的，但也可能不是。
Or times her parents had bought her a doll outfit or something when she told him she would reimburse them later, when they got home, with her own money.
或者有一次，她的父母给她买了一套洋娃娃服装或其他东西，而她告诉他，等他们回家后，她会用她自己的钱偿还给他们。
Or gifts she bought other people with her own money.
或者她用自己的钱给别人买的礼物。
But borrowing it from her parents, since she'd forgotten her purse.
不过是从她父母那里借来的，因为她忘记带钱包了。
She would skip a week, not thinking to it, then still remember it, and bring it into the next week.
她会不假思索地跳过一周，然后仍然记得它，并将其带入下周。
Then skip a week, then bring it over.
然后跳过一周，然后把它带过来。
Finally, she couldn't keep the amount in her head, because it had been added onto and subtracted from so much.
最后，她记不住这个数字了，因为已经加减了太多。
And it began to pull at her.
它开始吸引她。
And she thought, "I know.
她想：“我知道。
I'll pay them $100 when I grow up, and that will surely make up for anything I've borrowed along the way.
长大后我会付给他们 100 美元，这肯定可以弥补我一路上借的钱。
Then she didn't have to keep track of that.
那么她就不用再去关注这件事了。
Michelle Trachtenberg, who plays Buffy's little sister and a portal and a key on the TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, reading an except from Nicholson Baker's Everlasting Story of Nory.
米歇尔·崔切伯格 (Michelle Trachtenberg) 在电视剧《吸血鬼猎人巴菲》中扮演巴菲的妹妹和传送门和钥匙，她正在阅读尼科尔森·贝克的《诺里的永恒故事》中的一段例外。
Well, our program was produced today by Jonathan Goldstein and myself with Alex Blumberg, Blue Chevigny, Starlee Kine, Erin Yanke, and Annie Baxter.
好吧，我们今天的节目是由乔纳森·戈德斯坦和我本人以及亚历克斯·布伦伯格、布鲁·切维尼、斯塔利·凯恩、艾琳·扬克和安妮·巴克斯特制作的。
Senior producer Julie Snyder, consigliere Sarah Vowell, production help from Todd Bachmann.
高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德、顾问莎拉·沃威尔、托德·巴赫曼提供制作帮助。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] Ira Glass WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who you know, he tells me, he has played Japan, too.
[资金来源] Ira Glass WBEZ 管理监督由 Torey Malatia 负责，你知道，他告诉我，他也参加过日本比赛。
He swears.
他发誓。
I'd forgotten what it was to have the audience right there.
我已经忘记了有观众在场是什么感觉。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。