178: Superpowers - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #178 | August 13, 2010 178: Superpowers Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 178 集 | 2010 年 8 月 13 日 178：超级大国 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass When we were weak we told ourselves we were strong.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 当我们软弱时，我们告诉自己我们很坚强。
And sometimes-- if we were very weak-- we told ourselves we were very, very strong.
有时，如果我们非常弱，我们就会告诉自己我们非常非常坚强。
I mean, unquestionably, I was by far the most loathed member of my class, I think, you know?
我的意思是，毫无疑问，我是班上最令人讨厌的成员，我想，你知道吗？
Being a pasty, unathletic kid who was weird-looking and probably seemed overly eager, so, you know.
作为一个面色苍白、缺乏运动能力的孩子，他看起来很奇怪，而且可能看起来过于渴望，所以，你知道。
And I had friends that would come over on the weekends to play, but then at school, they would ignore me and pretend like they didn't know me.
我有一些朋友周末会过来玩，但到了学校，他们就会无视我，假装不认识我。
And so when he was little, Chris Ware spent a lot of time thinking about superpowers.
因此，当克里斯·韦尔（Chris Ware）小时候，他花了很多时间思考超能力。
He drew superheroes over and over, trying to get them right.
他一遍又一遍地画超级英雄，试图把它们画对。
He always wondered where somebody could find a radioactive animal like the one who bit Peter Parker and turned him into the Amazing Spider-Man.
他总是想知道哪里可以找到像咬了彼得·帕克并把他变成超凡蜘蛛侠的那种放射性动物。
Once or twice, he thought he might be developing his own real superpowers.
有一两次，他认为自己可能正在发展自己真正的超能力。
There was one morning where I was standing under the shower.
有一天早上，我站在淋浴下。
And of course when you get in, immediately, because you're so cold, the water is extremely hot by contrast, you know?
当然，当你进去后，立刻，因为你太冷了，相比之下水却非常热，你知道吗？
So you have the cold water turned up, and as you stand in there, you get used to it, and you turn the cold water down.
所以你把冷水开大了，当你站在那里时，你习惯了，然后把冷水调小。
And I was in there for a very long time.
我在那里呆了很长一段时间。
And I remember turning the cold, and it wouldn't go any farther.
我记得我感冒了，但就没有再继续下去了。
And I thought, that's weird.
我想，这很奇怪。
It must be stuck.
一定是卡住了。
And I turned it more, and it wouldn't go any farther.
我又把它转了几圈，它就再也转不动了。
And I realized I was standing under completely hot water, but it felt fine to me.
我意识到我正站在完全热水下，但对我来说感觉很好。
It actually felt warm, almost cool.
实际上感觉很温暖，几乎是凉爽的。
And the longer I stood there, it felt cooler and cooler.
我站在那里的时间越长，感觉就越凉爽。
And the only explanation I could come up with is that I had developed the ability to withstand extraordinary heat.
我能想到的唯一解释是我已经具备了承受异常高温的能力。
And of course we'd just run out of hot water.
当然，我们的热水就会用完。
But at that time, I didn't know that that happened.
但当时我并不知道发生了这样的事情。
I thought hot water was an endless commodity.
我认为热水是取之不尽用之不竭的商品。
His first crush was Batgirl.
他的初恋是蝙蝠女。
Even now, he says, if he just sees the colors of Batgirl's costume-- just the colors, no image at all, just the colors-- his heart still skips a beat.
他说，即使是现在，如果他只看到蝙蝠女服装的颜色——只是颜色，根本没有图像，只是颜色——他的心仍然会漏跳。
He invented own superhero called the Hurricane, who could shoot blasts of wind from his hands and was drawn with huge, manly muscles.
他发明了自己的超级英雄，名为飓风，可以从手中喷射出一阵风，并拥有巨大的、有男子气概的肌肉。
He made a Hurricane costume to wear.
他制作了一套飓风服装供穿着。
Red T-shirt with a black circle with an H on it, a mask that his mom made for him, a yellow cape.
红色T恤，上面有一个黑色圆圈，上面有一个H，一个他妈妈给他做的面具，一件黄色斗篷。
There were a few times where I actually came to school with bits of a superhero costume secreted under my school uniform.
有几次，我真的带着一些超级英雄服装来学校，校服下面藏着一些超级英雄服装。
I guess, I don't exactly know why.
我想，我不太清楚为什么。
I guess I thought it was like it was going to give me some sense of power or something.
我想我以为这会给我某种力量感或其他什么。
But of course then I had gym class, you know?
当然，后来我上了体育课，你知道吗？
You have to change your clothes, so.
你得换衣服了，所以。
I don't know what I was thinking.
我不知道我在想什么。
There was one time I actually-- this is sort of peripherally superhero-- but I'd actually drawn circuit boards on pieces of paper, like the Bionic Man, the Six Million Dollar Man, and I'd actually taped them on my legs to look like real circuitry exposed, as if I had mechanical legs or something like that.
有一次我实际上——这有点像超级英雄——但我实际上在纸上画了电路板，比如仿生人、六百万美元的人，我实际上把它们贴在我的腿上，看起来就像真实的电路暴露出来，就好像我有机械腿或类似的东西。
And I guess I vaguely thought that somebody would catch a glimpse of it and think, wow!
我想我隐隐约约地认为有人会瞥见它并想，哇！
Look, he's bionic!
看，他是仿生人！
Some of us, we spend a long, long time hoping that we're more than what the world thinks of us.
我们中的一些人花了很长很长的时间希望自己能够超越世界对我们的看法。
And so of course we're drawn to these stories of these mild-mannered guys who, under their clothes, wear a costume in secret, with powers nobody suspects.
因此，我们当然会被这些彬彬有礼的人的故事所吸引，他们在衣服下面秘密穿着一套服装，拥有无人怀疑的力量。
And when we get older, it all seems-- well, it all seems ridiculous.
当我们变老时，这一切似乎——嗯，这一切似乎都很荒谬。
It all seems really, really dumb.
这一切看起来真的非常愚蠢。
Chris Ware went on to draw cartoons for his living.
克里斯·韦尔继续以画漫画为生。
But these cartoons that he draws now are like novels, about real people.
但他现在画的这些漫画就像小说一样，写的是真实的人。
And when a Superman type shows up in one of these cartoons, it's always somebody trying to con kids with a costume and a cape.
当超人类型出现在其中一部动画片中时，总是有人试图穿着服装和斗篷来欺骗孩子。
He is always a disappointment.
他总是令人失望。
It's just more interesting that way.
这样才更有趣。
I think he's more like a real dad that way, I guess.
我认为他更像是一个真正的父亲，我想。
And the more I draw him, the fatter he gets, too, and the more bald he gets, I guess.
我越画他，他也变得越胖，我猜他也变得越来越秃。
And if you were Superman, too, you know, what do you care what you look like?
如果你也是超人，你知道吗，你在乎你的样子吗？
You wouldn't be all handsome.
你不会全都是帅哥。
You'd eat whatever you felt like, you'd take whatever you wanted, and you'd end up looking really terrible after a while, I think.
你想吃什么就吃什么，想吃什么就吃什么，我想，过了一段时间你就会看起来非常糟糕。
If I was a superhero, I think I would probably-- I mean, who's going to criticize you?
如果我是一个超级英雄，我想我可能会——我的意思是，谁会批评你？
Well, today on our radio program, Superpowers, four real life stories about how easy it is to be caught up in the dream of them.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目《超级大国》中，讲述了四个现实生活中的故事，讲述他们是多么容易陷入梦想。
Act One, The Invisible Man Vs. Hawkman, the story of one man, two superpowers and one big question, a question, my friend, that we all can face equally.
第一幕，隐形人VS隐形人《鹰侠》，一个关于一个人、两个超能力和一个大问题的故事，我的朋友，一个我们所有人都可以平等面对的问题。
Act Two, Wonder Woman, the story of a kid who decided to take steps to become a superhero, systematic, thorough steps that took her years, well into adulthood.
第二幕《神奇女侠》讲述了一个孩子决定采取措施成为超级英雄的故事，系统、彻底的步骤花了她很多年的时间，一直到成年。
Act Three, the Green Team of Superhero Boy Millionaires, Beppo, the Amazing Supermonkey from Planet Krypton, and the Man from Sram.
第三幕，超级英雄男孩百万富翁的绿队、来自氪星的神奇超级猴子贝波和来自斯拉姆的男人。
In this act, an inquiry into superheroes-- and there are many each year-- that just never caught on.
在这一行为中，对超级英雄的调查——每年都有很多——但从未流行起来。
Act Four, The Wonder Twins, the story of two 12-year-old boys in Burma, guerrilla fighters, who had entire armies believing that they could stop bullets and summon the dead, and why so many people believe them.
第四幕，神奇双胞胎，讲述了缅甸的两个 12 岁男孩的故事，他们是游击战士，整个军队都相信他们可以阻止子弹并召唤死者，以及为什么这么多人相信他们。
From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
As the supervillains say, "Silence, miscreant!
正如超级恶棍所说：“安静，恶棍！
Our program has begun."
我们的计划已经开始了。”
Well, we now present a kind of super-contest for you, beloved super-listener, between two ancient superpowers, two of the superpowers which have fascinated humans since antiquity.
好吧，我们现在为您呈现一场超级竞赛，亲爱的超级听众，在两个古老的超级大国之间，两个自古以来就让人类着迷的超级大国之间进行。
And actually, this is kind of a super Rorschach test.
事实上，这是一种超级罗夏墨迹测试。
John Hodgman has been conducting an unscientific survey, posing for people a very simple choice.
约翰·霍奇曼一直在进行一项不科学的调查，为人们提出了一个非常简单的选择。
Flight versus invisibility?
飞行与隐形？
This question is only for you.
这个问题只针对你。
Whichever you pick, you'll be the only person in the world to have that particular superpower.
无论你选择哪一个，你都将成为世界上唯一拥有这种特殊超能力的人。
You can't have both.
你不能两者兼得。
Which do you choose?
你选择哪个？
I started wondering about this a few years ago.
几年前我开始思考这个问题。
I'd bring it up at parties, dinners, wedding receptions.
我会在聚会、晚宴、婚宴上提起它。
It was more interesting to ask than where people worked or where they went to school, and clearly more fun to answer.
询问比人们在哪里工作或在哪里上学更有趣，而且显然回答也更有趣。
Like a magic word, shazam, flight versus invisibility would instantly change an evening's character, opening passionate conversation and debate.
就像一个神奇的词“shazam”一样，“飞行”与“隐形”会立即改变当晚的气氛，引发激烈的对话和辩论。
But what surprised me more was how quickly everyone would choose, as though they'd been thinking about it for a long time.
但更让我惊讶的是，大家的选择速度之快，就好像他们已经考虑了很久一样。
Everyone knew exactly which superpower they wanted and what they would do with it.
每个人都清楚地知道他们想要哪种超能力以及他们会用它做什么。
Their plans weren't always flashy or heroic.
他们的计划并不总是华而不实或英雄的。
In fact, they almost never were.
事实上，他们几乎从未如此。
If I could fly, the first thing I would do is fly into the bar, check out what's going on there, fly back home.
如果我能飞，我要做的第一件事就是飞进酒吧，看看那里发生了什么，然后飞回家。
I would attach my baby to me and fly to a doctor's appointment at 11:30, fly right back.
我会把宝宝抱在身上，然后在 11:30 乘飞机去看医生，然后立即飞回来。
And then I think I would fly to Atlantic City.
然后我想我会飞往大西洋城。
I would imagine, like, if it got around that I had the power of flight and it was a rare type of thing, I mean, there would definitely be flight groupies.
我想，如果我有飞行的能力，而且这是一种罕见的东西，我的意思是，肯定会有飞行追星族。
I would imagine.
我会想象。
So they're going to be just like, oh, yeah, I just slept with the flying dude.
所以他们会说，哦，是的，我刚刚和那个飞人睡了。
You know?
你知道？
People are just like, oh, score.
人们就像，哦，得分。
I'd go into Barney's.
我会去巴尼店。
I'd pick out the cashmere sweaters that I like.
我会挑选我喜欢的羊绒衫。
I'd go to the dressing room.
我会去更衣室。
The woman says, how many items?
女人说，有多少东西？
I'd say, five.
我想说，五个。
I'd go into the dressing room.
我会走进更衣室。
I'd put those five sweaters on.
我会把那五件毛衣穿上。
And I'd summon my powers of invisibility in the dressing room.
我会在更衣室里召唤我的隐形能力。
I'd turn invisible.
我会变得隐形。
I'd walk out, leaving her to wonder why there's a tag hanging from the door that says five, and no person inside.
我会走出去，留下她想知道为什么门上挂着一个写着“五”的标签，而里面却没有人。
Immediately.
立即地。
Until I had all the sweaters that I wanted, and then I would have to think of other things to do.
直到我得到了所有我想要的毛衣，然后我就不得不考虑其他事情要做。
Typically, this is how it goes.
通常情况下，事情就是这样的。
People who turn invisible will sneak into the movies or onto airplanes.
隐形的人会潜入电影或飞机上。
People who fly stop taking the bus.
乘坐飞机的人不再乘坐公共汽车。
Here's one thing that pretty much no one ever says-- I would use my power to fight crime.
有一件事情几乎没有人说过——我会利用我的权力打击犯罪。
No one seems to care about crime.
似乎没有人关心犯罪问题。
I don't think I would want to spend a lot of time using my power for good.
我不认为我愿意花很多时间去善用我的力量。
I mean, if I don't have super strength and I'm not invulnerable, then, I mean, it would be very dangerous.
我的意思是，如果我没有超强的力量，而且我也不是刀枪不入的话，那么，我的意思是，那将是非常危险的。
If you had to rescue somebody from a burning building or something like that, you might catch on fire.
如果您必须从燃烧的建筑物或类似物体中救人，您可能会着火。
Just having flight I don't think is necessarily quite enough, because you don't have the super strength.
我认为仅仅飞行并不一定足够，因为你没有超强的力量。
I'd still be weak when I got there, I guess.
我想，当我到达那里时，我仍然很虚弱。
I don't fight crime now, and people without superpowers do.
我现在不打击犯罪，而没有超能力的人会打击犯罪。
Sure, in theory, yes.
当然，理论上是的。
But you know, I'm not a-- I mean, what can I do with this?
但你知道，我不是——我的意思是，我能用这个做什么？
Either one of those is, you need a whole package.
无论其中之一，您都需要一整套。
There's not much you can do with any one thing.
对于任何一件事你都无能为力。
I'd go to Paris, I suppose.
我想我会去巴黎。
Well, maybe I could be a Going to Paris Man, that sort of a superhero.
好吧，也许我可以成为一个去巴黎的人，那种超级英雄。
Going to Paris Man is not a superhero.
去巴黎的人不是超级英雄。
And I have to say this drove me crazy a little bit.
我不得不说这让我有点抓狂。
We are, after all, talking about superpowers.
毕竟，我们正在谈论超级大国。
Why not take down organized crime, bring hope to the hopeless, swear vengeance on the underworld, if only a little bit?
为什么不打击有组织的犯罪，给绝望的人带来希望，发誓向黑社会复仇，哪怕只是一点点？
I proposed a variety of sample scenarios along these lines, such as, how would you handle a mad genius taking over the Empire State Building, or a group of terrorists hijacking an overseas flight?
我沿着这些思路提出了各种示例场景，例如，你将如何处理一个疯狂的天才占领帝国大厦，或者一群恐怖分子劫持海外航班？
And what I learned is, some people should simply not be fighting crime.
我学到的是，有些人根本不应该打击犯罪。
Well, first thing that occurs to me is, like, I would sneak up behind them very low with a knife that they didn't see and slice their Achilles tendon.
好吧，我首先想到的是，我会用一把他们没有看到的刀偷偷地从他们身后悄悄靠近，切开他们的跟腱。
Oh, no. I'd somehow shove a sock in their mouth or something like that, and wrap some tape around their mouth, so that they can't yell out.
哦，不。我会以某种方式将袜子或类似的东西塞进他们的嘴里，然后用胶带缠住他们的嘴，这样他们就不能喊出来。
It might not be a sock.
它可能不是袜子。
It might just be some napkins or something.
可能只是一些餐巾纸或其他东西。
I can't keep all of this in my head.
我无法把这一切都记在心里。
I'd have to keep a bag full of stuff with me.
我必须随身携带一个装满东西的袋子。
Knives.
刀子。
Socks.
袜子。
Tape.
磁带。
Do you think you'd be tempted to enlist a teenage helper?
您认为您会想要招募一名青少年帮手吗？
Um.
嗯。
You know, I think a helper would be good, a helper with a complementary power.
你知道，我认为一个帮手会很好，一个具有互补能力的帮手。
There's no others, anybody else with superpowers.
没有其他人，没有其他人拥有超能力。
Oh, it would just be a teenager hanging around me?
哦，那只是一个十几岁的孩子在我身边徘徊吗？
No.
不。
People who consider invisibility always want to know, do I have to be naked?
考虑隐形的人总是想知道，我必须裸体吗？
People who choose flight want to know, how fast?
选择航班的人想知道，多快？
Almost all asked, who would win in a fight, Mr. Invisible or Flying Man?
几乎所有人都在问，隐形先生和飞人谁会在战斗中获胜？
And so I had to lay down some rules.
所以我必须制定一些规则。
Invisibility means the power to become transparent at will, including your clothing, but anything you may pick up is visible.
隐形意味着可以随意变得透明的能力，包括你的衣服，但你捡到的任何东西都是可见的。
Flight means the power to fly at any altitude within the earth's atmosphere at speeds up to 1000 miles per hour.
飞行是指在地球大气层内任何高度以高达每小时 1000 英里的速度飞行的能力。
But even then, they start looking for loopholes, hidden catches, superpower fine print.
但即便如此，他们也开始寻找漏洞、隐藏的陷阱、超级大国的细则。
They start negotiating their dreams with me.
他们开始与我协商他们的梦想。
Now, when you're flying, if you're flying at 1000 miles an hour at 100,000 feet, are you comfortable?
现在，当您飞行时，如果您以每小时 1000 英里的速度在 100,000 英尺的高度飞行，您感到舒服吗？
Do you get very cold?
你觉得很冷吗？
Let's say I'm in this room and I'm invisible.
假设我在这个房间里并且是隐形的。
And I'm walking around this apartment and I'm invisible.
我在这间公寓里走来走去，却是隐形的。
Do I have to be completely quiet, or you guys will, like, hear my footsteps?
我必须完全安静，否则你们会听到我的脚步声吗？
Because that's a pain in the ass.
因为那是一件令人头疼的事情。
And also, someone has to let you in.
而且，必须有人让你进来。
Can I carry someone?
我可以载人吗？
Can somebody go on my back?
有人可以坐我背上吗？
Then you can carry little people on your back.
然后你就可以背小人了。
Done.
完毕。
Flight it is.
飞行就是这样。
John Hodgman This is all part of what I call the five stages of choosing your superpower.
约翰·霍奇曼 这就是我所说的选择超能力的五个阶段的一部分。
Sometimes this process occurs in just moments.
有时这个过程只发生在瞬间。
For example, subject A, a tallish man with glasses, wedged into a cramped barroom corner, begins as they all do, with stage one, gut reaction.
例如，受试者 A，一个戴着眼镜的高个子男人，挤在狭窄的酒吧角落里，像他们所有人一样开始，第一阶段是本能反应。
Initially, I would think perhaps invisibility.
最初，我认为也许是隐形。
Next comes stage two, practical consideration.
接下来是第二阶段，实际考虑。
Because you have the ability to walk around work, perhaps show up at one point, and perhaps like go away for a little while, and turn invisible, and then come back and listen to what they say about you.
因为你有能力在工作中四处走动，也许在某一时刻出现，也许喜欢离开一会儿，然后变得隐形，然后回来听听他们对你的评价。
You have the power to spy on your exes.
你有能力监视你的前任。
And that would all be enlightening and fun and, in fact, a little bit perverted.
这一切都是有启发性的、有趣的，事实上，有点变态。
And--
还有——
You hear that doubt in his voice?
你从他的声音中听到了怀疑吗？
That's the beginning of stage three, philosophical reconsideration.
这是第三阶段的开始，即哲学反思。
That would-- I believe it would immediately turn into a life of complete depression.
那会——我相信它会立即变成完全抑郁的生活。
You wouldn't be able to really share it with anyone, you know?
你无法真正与任何人分享它，你知道吗？
And I know there'd be some problems with, like, the perversion thing.
我知道会有一些问题，比如变态的事情。
Invisibility leads you-- leads me, as an invisible person, down a dark path, because you're not going to want to miss out, when you're invisible, on-- you know, no matter how many times you've seen a woman naked in the shower, you're going to want to see it again, because there's always a different woman, right?
隐形引导你——作为一个隐形人，引导我走上一条黑暗的道路，因为你不会想错过，当你隐形时，你知道，无论你在淋浴时看到一个女人裸体多少次，你都会想再次看到它，因为总会有一个不同的女人，对吧？
And there's like a lifetime of that.
这就像一生一样。
And that's not acceptable behavior, no matter whether you're invisible or not.
无论你是否隐形，这都是不可接受的行为。
So who chooses invisibility and who chooses flight?
那么谁选择隐身，谁选择飞行呢？
In my experience, though there are lots of exceptions, men lean towards flying, women to invisibility.
根据我的经验，尽管有很多例外，但男性倾向于飞行，女性倾向于隐身。
And many brood anxiously over their choice, switching from one to the other and back again.
许多人焦急地思考自己的选择，从一种切换到另一种，然后再切换回来。
And that's because, more than the ability, say, to burst into flame or shoot arrows with uncanny accuracy, flight and invisibility touch a nerve.
这是因为，除了能够以惊人的准确性爆发火焰或射箭之外，飞行和隐形还触动神经。
Actually, they touch two different nerves, speak to very different primal desires and unconscious fears.
事实上，它们触及两种不同的神经，诉说着截然不同的原始欲望和无意识的恐惧。
One superpower is about something that's obvious, and the other is about something that is hidden.
一种超能力是关于明显的东西，另一种是关于隐藏的东西。
I think it indicates your level of shame.
我认为这表明了你的羞耻程度。
How do you mean?
你是什么意思？
Christine A person who chooses to fly has nothing to hide.
Christine 选择飞行的人没有什么可隐瞒的。
A person who chooses to be invisible wants clearly to hide themselves.
一个选择隐身的人显然想要隐藏自己。
Do you feel that you want to hide yourself?
你觉得你想隐藏自己吗？
I want to-- I'd like to not-- I'm not going to answer that question.
我想——我不想——我不会回答这个问题。
It all has to do with guile.
这一切都与诡计有关。
Wanting to be invisible means that you're a more guileful person.
想要隐形意味着你是一个更狡猾的人。
If you want to fly, it means you're guileless.
如果你想飞，就说明你天真无邪。
And I think the reason that I'm so conflicted about flying versus invisibility is that I have guile, but I really wish that I didn't.
我认为我对飞行和隐形如此矛盾的原因是我有狡猾，但我真的希望我没有。
Flight is the hero-- selfless and confident and unashamed.
飞行是英雄——无私、自信、无耻。
And invisibility, the villain.
还有隐形，恶棍。
Almost everyone I talked to called invisibility the sneakier power.
几乎所有与我交谈过的人都称隐形能力为偷偷摸摸的力量。
Flying is for people who want to let it all hang out.
飞行适合那些想要让一切都闲逛的人。
Invisibility is for fearful, crouching masturbators.
隐形是为那些害怕、蹲着的自慰者准备的。
First of all, I think that a lot of people are going to tell you that they would choose flight, and I think they're lying to you.
首先，我认为很多人会告诉你他们会选择飞行，我认为他们在骗你。
I think they're saying that because they're trying to sound all mythic and heroic, because the better angels of our nature would tell us that the real thing that we should strive for is flight, and that that's noble and all that kind of stuff.
我认为他们这么说是因为他们试图让自己听起来充满神话和英雄气概，因为我们本性中更好的天使会告诉我们，我们应该努力追求的真正目标是飞行，这是高贵的，诸如此类的东西。
But I think actually, if everybody were being perfectly honest with you, they would tell you the truth, which is that they all want to be invisible so that they can shoplift, get into movies for free, go to exotic places on airplanes without paying for airline tickets, and watch celebrities have sex.
但我认为实际上，如果每个人都对你完全诚实，他们会告诉你真相，那就是他们都想隐形，这样他们就可以去商店行窃，免费看电影，不用付机票钱就可以乘飞机去异国他乡，观看名人做爱。
Anyone faced with this choice, in their heart of hearts, will choose invisibility.
任何人面对这样的选择，内心深处都会选择隐身。
Yes.
是的。
Or they have this sort of inflated, heroic, mythical concept of themselves, and that, in fact, they're not really giving it very much practical thought.
或者他们对自己有这种夸大的、英雄的、神话般的概念，而事实上，他们并没有真正给予它太多实际的思考。
In the end, it's not a question of what kind of person flies and what kind of person fades.
归根结底，不是什么样的人飞翔，什么样的人衰落的问题。
We all do both.
我们都做。
Perhaps that's why, when I put the choice to myself, I'm hopelessly, completely stuck.
也许这就是为什么，当我把选择权交给自己时，我完全陷入了困境。
At the heart of this decision, the question I really don't want to face, is this.
在这个决定的核心，我真的不想面对的问题是这样的。
who do you want to be, the person you hope to be, or the person you fear you actually are?
你想成为谁，你希望成为什么样的人，或者你害怕自己实际上是什么样的人？
Don't rush into it.
不要急于这么做。
Think it over.
想一想。
Which would you choose?
你会选择哪个？
Act Two, Wonder Woman.
第二幕，神奇女侠。
OK, what are the ways to create a superhero?
好啦，创造超级英雄的方法有哪些呢？
Gamma rays.
伽马射线。
Space alien abduction.
太空外星人绑架。
Prison experiment or a NASA flight gone awry.
监狱实验或美国宇航局的一次飞行出了差错。
And then there's the idea of a list.
然后就是一个列表的想法。
Is it possible that a to-do list is powerful enough to achieve this incredible result?
一个待办事项列表是否有足够的力量来实现这个令人难以置信的结果？
Kelly McEvers met somebody who tried.
凯莉·麦克埃弗斯遇到了一个尝试过的人。
We met in a bar in Flagstaff, Arizona.
我们在亚利桑那州弗拉格斯塔夫的一家酒吧见面。
I'd just moved back from Cambodia and I was going out for one of my first beers back in the States.
我刚从柬埔寨搬回来，正打算出去喝我回到美国的第一杯啤酒。
Not long into the first one, I notice this Amazon of a woman with huge blond and red-streaked hair and frosty lips, wearing a short red tank dress and at least 50 bracelets.
第一个刚开始不久，我就注意到了一位亚马逊女人，她有着巨大的金色和红色条纹的头发和冷漠的嘴唇，穿着一件红色背心短裙，戴着至少 50 个手镯。
She's six feet tall and showing a lot of leg.
她身高六英尺，露出大长腿。
People at the bar swivel their heads to watch her every move.
酒吧里的人都转着头注视着她的一举一动。
She stands next to me to order a drink, and in this throaty voice says, "What are those?" pointing to my cigarettes.
她站在我旁边点了一杯饮料，用沙哑的声音问道：“那些是什么？”指着我的香烟。
I tell her they're Cambodian.
我告诉她他们是柬埔寨人。
Her eyes light up and she shoots out a long, tan arm, and points at a table in the corner.
她的眼睛一亮，伸出一条长长的棕褐色手臂，指着角落里的一张桌子。
She orders me there.
她命令我去那里。
Before I can say no, I'm following her to my seat.
在我能拒绝之前，我已经跟着她到了我的座位上。
She tells me she's an international private investigator, a bounty hunter, and a bail bonds enforcer, and that her name is Zora.
她告诉我她是一名国际私家侦探、赏金猎人和保释债券执行者，她的名字叫佐拉。
I sit there for hours listening to her.
我坐在那里听她讲了好几个小时。
Within a week, she takes me to Las Vegas.
一周之内，她带我去了拉斯维加斯。
We drive there in her red Mustang.
我们开着她的红色野马车去那里。
As always, there's a Colt .380 under the driver's seat and a .45 Megastar in the trunk.
与往常一样，驾驶座下有一把 Colt 0.380，后备箱里有一把 0.45 Megastar。
In Vegas, we skip the casinos and head straight for the male strip clubs, where Zora drops at least $200 on lap dances from buff guys with names like Roman.
在维加斯，我们跳过赌场，直接前往男性脱衣舞俱乐部，在那里，佐拉至少要花 200 美元才能从像罗曼这样的健美男子那里跳上脱衣舞。
Her getup is the same as before-- teeth, hair, jewelry, and the ubiquitous tank dress, which, I realize, is the best way to show off her tattoos.
她的装扮和以前一样——牙齿、头发、珠宝，还有无处不在的背心裙，我意识到，这是炫耀她纹身的最好方式。
One is this big circle with blue and white swirls in it, kind of like a bowling ball, on her left shoulder.
其中一个是她左肩上的一个大圆圈，里面有蓝色和白色的漩涡，有点像保龄球。
Every guy she meets asks her about it, and when they hear her answer, they sometimes propose marriage.
她遇到的每个男人都会问她这个问题，当他们听到她的回答时，有时会向她求婚。
Turns out the tattoo is a magic globe she holds in her dreams.
原来纹身是她梦中持有的一个魔法地球仪。
And in these dreams, it gives her superpowers.
在这些梦中，它赋予了她超能力。
Ever since I remember, I've had the dreams.
自从我记事起，我就一直有梦想。
And they're very vivid.
而且它们非常生动。
But it varies.
但情况有所不同。
It usually involves fighting, sometimes with guns, sometimes with superhero powers.
它通常涉及战斗，有时用枪，有时用超级英雄的力量。
Lightning from my fists and all that.
我的拳头发出闪电等等。
And I usually have super strength, and I can fly, and I have all those things.
而且我通常都有超强的力量，我会飞，这些东西我都有。
And it's my most common set of dreams.
这是我最常见的一系列梦想。
And it varies.
而且情况各不相同。
Sometimes it's medieval, sometimes it's futuristic, sometimes it's present day, sometimes it's like a guerrilla war in Latin America.
有时是中世纪，有时是未来，有时是现代，有时就像拉丁美洲的游击战争。
Can you describe that Zora to me, the Zora in dreams?
你能给我描述一下那个佐拉吗，梦中的佐拉？
Very powerful athletically, but beyond the rules of nature that this world allows.
运动能力非常强大，但超出了这个世界允许的自然规则。
It's a six foot five and long, like almost impossibly long silver hair.
它有六英尺五长，就像几乎不可能长的银发。
This sort of otherworldly quality to her, where her voice did not sound normal.
对她来说，这是一种超凡脱俗的品质，她的声音听起来不正常。
It sounded, like, almost musical.
这听起来几乎像音乐。
And it became something that I aspired to be.
这成为了我渴望成为的事情。
I aspired to be this sort of superhero, this sort of person who would fight for a cause.
我渴望成为这样的超级英雄，这样为某种事业而奋斗的人。
That was my motivation in life.
这就是我的人生动力。
Ever since I was 10 or 11, I decided that that was my goal.
从我10岁或11岁起，我就决定这就是我的目标。
Zora took the dreams seriously.
佐拉认真对待这些梦想。
So seriously that at the age of 12, she sat down and composed a list of some 30 skills she needed to learn if she wanted to become as close to a superhero as any mortal could be.
她是如此认真，以至于在 12 岁时，她坐下来列出了一份大约 30 项技能的清单，如果她想成为像任何凡人一样接近的超级英雄，她需要学习这些技能。
She even gave herself a deadline-- to master these skills by the time she was 23.
她甚至给自己设定了一个最后期限——在 23 岁之前掌握这些技能。
Zora pulls out the old spiral notebook that was her diary at the age of 13 and turns to the inside back cover.
佐拉拿出一本旧的螺旋笔记本，那是她 13 岁时的日记，然后翻到封底内页。
There's the list.
这是清单。
Kelly Mcevers Wow.
凯莉·麦克弗斯 哇。
Why don't you go ahead and read it.
你为什么不继续读一下呢？
OK.
好的。
The list included martial arts, electronics, chemistry, metaphysics, hang gliding, helicopter and airplane flying, parachuting, mountain climbing, survival--
清单包括武术、电子、化学、玄学、悬挂式滑翔、直升机和飞机飞行、跳伞、登山、生存——
Throughout her teens and 20s, each time she started a new diary, she would update the list and write it in the back of the book, each one with the same format, each one titled "The List."
在她十几岁和二十多岁时，每次她开始写新日记时，她都会更新列表并将其写在书的后面，每一篇都采用相同的格式，每一篇的标题都是“列表”。
Weaponry, rafting, scuba diving, herbology-- yes, I, studied that-- CPR, first aid and mountain emergency kind of medicine.
武器、漂流、水肺潜水、草药学——是的，我学过——心肺复苏、急救和山地急救之类的医学。
The list also includes bodybuilding, archery, demolitions, and explosives.
该清单还包括健美、射箭、爆破和爆炸。
She wanted to learn how to hunt animals and track men.
她想学习如何狩猎动物和追踪人类。
Major physical conditioning.
主要调理身体。
Kelly Mcevers And the most incredible thing about all of this is that Zora accomplished nearly every item on the list.
Kelly Mcevers 最令人难以置信的是，Zora 几乎完成了清单上的所有项目。
Throwing stars and compound bows and throwing knives and-- yes, it was a very interesting pastime.
飞镖、复合弓和飞刀——是的，这是一种非常有趣的消遣。
To keep up with the goals set by the list, she sped through school.
为了跟上清单上设定的目标，她加快了学业。
Starting in the seventh grade, she began completing entire school years during the summer term and finished high school by the time she was 15.
从七年级开始，她在暑期学期开始完成整个学年的学习，并在 15 岁时完成了高中学业。
She got her BA at 18, a master's at 20, and completed the coursework for a PhD in Geopolitics by the time she was 21.
她 18 岁获得学士学位，20 岁获得硕士学位，21 岁时完成地缘政治学博士学位课程。
She wanted to live like Indiana Jones, spending half her time in the classroom and half her time saving the world in the jungles of Peru.
她想要像印第安纳·琼斯一样生活，一半的时间在教室里，一半的时间在秘鲁的丛林里拯救世界。
Item number four-- camel, elephant riding.
第四项——骑骆驼、骑大象。
Evasive driving and stunts.
躲避驾驶和特技。
When you're a kid, you have these romantic visions of what you'll be when you grow up.
当你还是个孩子的时候，你会对长大后的生活抱有浪漫的幻想。
But how many people are so diligent they commit their dreams to paper and make it their life's work to achieve them?
但有多少人如此勤奋，将自己的梦想写在纸上，并为实现这些梦想而奋斗一生呢？
How many keep a list, amending it, adding to it, ticking things off as they go along, well into their adult lives?
有多少人会保留一份清单，修改它，添加它，在他们成年后的生活中不断地勾选一些东西？
After finishing the course work for her PhD, Zora decided to quit school, disappointed at the lack of cliff-hanging adventure in her doctoral program.
完成博士学位课程后，佐拉决定退学，她对博士课程中缺乏悬而未决的冒险感到失望。
And since superheroes who live in the real world need jobs, she decided to seek employment at the only place that would allow her to put all the skills from the list to use.
由于生活在现实世界中的超级英雄需要工作，她决定在唯一能让她使用清单上的所有技能的地方寻找工作。
Zora wanted to become an agent in the CIA.
佐拉想成为中央情报局的特工。
And so began a rigorous application process.
于是就开始了严格的申请过程。
Interviews, psych exams, a three-day lie detector test.
面试、心理测试、为期三天的测谎仪测试。
After that, then they sent investigators out to interview me, interview my neighbors, interview ex-boyfriends, interview friends, ex-friends, former colleagues, people I worked with, people I used to work with.
之后他们又派调查员去采访我，采访我的邻居，采访我的前男友，采访我的朋友，前朋友，前同事，和我一起工作的人，曾经和我一起工作的人。
They threw a question out in the middle of an interview.
他们在采访中提出了一个问题。
So what would you do in this situation?
那么在这种情况下你会怎么做？
If you were driving down the road, and you had one of your native agents with you, someone who's going to give you some information, and you were in a third world country somewhere, and you were driving a car, and you accidentally ran into a dog, and people have been out playing in the street, children in the street, they see their dog get killed, and they get upset, and they rush towards the car, what do you do in that situation?
如果你在路上开车，你身边有一位本地特工，他会向你提供一些信息，而你在第三世界国家的某个地方，你正在开车，你不小心撞到了一只狗，人们在街上玩耍，孩子们在街上，他们看到他们的狗被杀了，他们很沮丧，他们冲向汽车，在这种情况下你会怎么做？
You don't want to draw attention to the person who's with you.
您不想引起对与您在一起的人的注意。
So what I said was that I would tell my agent to get down lower in the car, and I would get out of the car and draw the attention to myself, and try to appease them in some way, either by giving money, more likely.
所以我说的是，我会告诉我的经纪人在车里蹲得更低，然后我会下车，将注意力吸引到自己身上，并尝试以某种方式安抚他们，或者更有可能是通过给钱。
And that was an acceptable answer.
这是一个可以接受的答案。
That was a good answer to them.
这对他们来说是一个很好的答案。
At the time, when I was going through the process, it felt like everything was coming together.
当时，当我经历这个过程时，感觉一切都在一起了。
And I had not felt so much joy probably ever.
我可能从来没有感受到如此多的快乐。
Absolutely not.
绝对不是。
I would tell them that I had a sense that I could combine the whole street smarts intellectual, the education with the sort of adventure personality.
我会告诉他们，我有一种感觉，我可以将整个街头智慧、知识分子、教育与冒险个性结合起来。
And I was actually told that I had the perfect personality for it, and that I would do really well.
事实上，我被告知我拥有完美的个性，而且我会做得很好。
It was like the fruition of my life, that it was going to be the step into the next-- you know, where I would be using all that list in preparation for the next phase, which would be to actually put it into practice.
这就像我生命的成果，这将是进入下一个阶段的一步——你知道，我将使用所有这些清单为下一阶段做准备，即将其实际付诸实践。
About eight months into the interviews, Zora got a letter saying she'd been rejected.
面试大约八个月后，佐拉收到一封信，说她被拒绝了。
She appealed over the next year and a half, partly to find out why they'd turned her down, but the best they could do was to tell her to try again in a few more years.
在接下来的一年半时间里，她提出了上诉，部分原因是为了找出他们拒绝她的原因，但他们最多只能告诉她几年后再试一次。
In the end, the CIA wouldn't take her, and they wouldn't even tell her why.
最后，中央情报局不带她走，甚至不告诉她原因。
Probably it took me more like two years to recover.
可能我花了两年多的时间才恢复过来。
I was a basket case.
我是一个篮子里的人。
I was just down.
我刚刚情绪低落。
You know?
你知道？
I would have to work.
我必须工作。
I couldn't concentrate.
我无法集中注意力。
Sort of slump down, staring at the wall.
有点颓然，盯着墙壁。
I put my whole life into examination, all the years of preparation.
我把一生都投入到了考试中，投入了多年的准备。
Most of us give up our dreams of superhero adventure when we're adolescents.
我们大多数人在青少年时期就放弃了超级英雄冒险的梦想。
Zora was only getting to it at the age of 27.
佐拉 (Zora) 27 岁时才开始接触这一领域。
Here she knew how to fly a helicopter and survive in the wilderness, but for what?
在这里她知道如何驾驶直升机并在荒野中生存，但为了什么？
She devoted a lot of time to thinking about why she might have been rejected by the CIA.
她花了很多时间思考为什么她可能会被中央情报局拒绝。
Maybe it was all those months she spent with right wing militia groups, doing her doctoral research.
也许这就是她与右翼民兵团体一起度过的几个月，做她的博士研究。
Maybe she shouldn't have told the CIA how she ended up in a clandestine IRA club one night while on vacation in Ireland.
也许她不应该告诉中央情报局她在爱尔兰度假的一天晚上是如何进入爱尔兰共和军秘密俱乐部的。
Maybe the CIA didn't like the fact that her father, a professor at the University of Minnesota, is an outspoken Serbian nationalist.
也许中央情报局不喜欢她的父亲，明尼苏达大学的教授，是一位直言不讳的塞尔维亚民族主义者。
Or maybe it was simply her own fault, that she couldn't turn herself into a superhero.
或者也许这只是她自己的错，她无法把自己变成一个超级英雄。
I had violated the agreement of the list, violated the agreement that I made with myself, that I had not become what the archetype was, that I'd become something lacking.
我违反了清单上的约定，违反了我与自己达成的约定，即我没有成为原型，我将成为缺乏的东西。
The point being that my mythology should have guided me better, and it felt like such a final thing.
重点是我的神话应该更好地指导我，而这感觉就像是最后的事情。
So Zora remade herself.
于是佐拉重塑了自己。
She had been virtually isolated from other people since she was 15, when she started actively pursuing the goals on the list.
从 15 岁起，她就开始积极追求清单上的目标，几乎与其他人隔绝。
Her parents were happy she was so busy, because she had no time for boys.
她的父母很高兴她这么忙，因为她没有时间照顾男孩。
But now she started working for a woman private investigator.
但现在她开始为一名女私家侦探工作。
One day when she went to court, she wore her first pair of pantyhose, because she was told it would help her look more feminine.
有一天，当她出庭时，她穿上了第一双连裤袜，因为有人告诉她这会让她看起来更女性化。
Soon after, she was schooled in the sheer power of lipstick, a short skirt, and a supermodel runway walk to control the minds of others.
不久之后，她就学会了用口红、短裙和超模走秀的纯粹力量来控制别人的思想。
These days she works for an international private investigation agency that handles these kinds of cases.
如今，她在一家处理此类案件的国际私人调查机构工作。
Child abduction, retrieval of custody, reverse stings, occult and ritualistic crimes.
绑架儿童、夺回监护权、反向刺痛、神秘和仪式犯罪。
Those tend to be really interesting.
这些往往非常有趣。
I like working on those.
我喜欢从事这些工作。
Anti-terrorism, kidnap protection and return, counterintelligence.
反恐、绑架保护和遣返、反情报。
She's happy doing this work.
她很高兴做这份工作。
In a typical case, Zora's agency sent her on a mission to Mexico to do what's known as a reverse scam.
在一个典型案例中，佐拉的机构派她前往墨西哥执行所谓的反向骗局。
The agency was hired by the family of a young woman who'd recently traveled there and fallen in love with the man she planned to marry after knowing him for only 10 days.
该机构受雇于一位年轻女子的家人，她最近去过那里，并在认识仅十天后就爱上了她打算结婚的男人。
The family suspected some sort of con.
家人怀疑有某种骗局。
Zora contacted him, pretending she was looking for a girlfriend who used to work with him in the travel industry.
佐拉联系了他，假装她正在寻找一位曾经和他一起在旅游业工作的女朋友。
She took a photo of a classmate with her to begin the scam.
她拍了一张同学的照片，开始了诈骗。
I sort of played the distressed American student going to a Spanish school.
我扮演了一个去西班牙学校读书的苦恼的美国学生。
And he invited me on a couple of dates, and asked me to come back for the bullfight.
他邀请我约会几次，并邀请我回来观看斗牛。
What did you wear?
你穿什么？
Zora I wore like a little itty-bitty skirt and a little tank top.
我穿的佐拉就像一条小裙子和一件小背心。
I made it seem like I had plenty of money, and that interested him.
我让他看起来好像我很有钱，这让他很感兴趣。
He kind of perked up at that.
想到这里，他有点精神了。
He never mentioned, the whole time that I ever spent any time with him, he never mentioned that there was ever a woman.
他从来没有提到过，在我和他在一起的所有时间里，他从来没有提到过曾经有过一个女人。
I found him to be pretty emotionally open and a very romantic guy.
我发现他情绪非常开放，而且是一个非常浪漫的人。
But I honestly felt that he probably was not in love with her, that he was taking this as an opportunity to live in the United States.
但老实说，我觉得他可能并不爱她，他只是以此为契机去美国生活。
And that was the report I gave.
这就是我给出的报告。
Before Zora set out for Mexico, I rode with her to the airport.
在佐拉出发前往墨西哥之前，我和她一起骑车去了机场。
We were late and hurrying through the terminal, just 10 minutes to spare, when she did the strangest thing.
我们迟到了，匆匆穿过航站楼，只剩下 10 分钟的时间，这时她做了一件最奇怪的事。
She sat down in a chair, far from the gate, and wouldn't move.
她坐在离大门较远的椅子上，一动不动。
I told her she was going to miss her flight, but she didn't budge.
我告诉她她会错过航班，但她没有让步。
I sat down next to her.
我坐在她旁边。
She said she was scared.
她说她很害怕。
About the case?
关于案件？
About which disguise she might wear?
她可能会穿哪种伪装？
About being found out?
会不会被发现？
No, she said.
不，她说。
She said she was afraid that when she got to Mexico, people wouldn't like her.
她说她担心当她到达墨西哥时，人们会不喜欢她。
The next time I was at her house, I hadn't noticed before, but I realized her bookshelf was packed with advice on how to build confidence.
下次我去她家时，我以前没有注意到，但我意识到她的书架上堆满了如何建立自信的建议。
Titles like Princessa: Machiavelli For Women.
诸如《公主：女性马基雅维利》之类的游戏。
Books like that aren't really so far from the idea of keeping a list, having an ongoing plan for self-improvement, believing that if you just put something on paper and stick to it, you can change.
像这样的书与保留清单、制定持续的自我完善计划、相信只要把一些东西写在纸上并坚持下去的想法相去不远。
Zora still has her list.
佐拉仍然保留着她的名单。
But while the old list was all about being perfect and saving the world, the new list is very different.
但是，虽然旧名单的重点是完美和拯救世界，但新名单却截然不同。
I need to learn how to play tennis and golf.
我需要学习如何打网球和高尔夫球。
And my new list is windsurfing, tennis, golf.
我的新清单是风帆冲浪、网球、高尔夫。
I need to develop some kind of talent.
我需要培养某种才能。
Like, I need to learn how to sing properly, or to do some kind of comedy or sketches, acting.
比如，我需要学习如何正确地唱歌，或者做某种喜剧或小品、表演。
I need to learn how to act.
我需要学习如何行动。
Oh, I need to learn how to sing like Billie Holiday.
哦，我需要学习如何像比莉·哈乐黛一样唱歌。
She doesn't take the list so seriously these days.
这些天她不再那么认真地对待这份清单了。
There are no deadlines.
没有最后期限。
She puts things on the list and later decides not to do them.
她把事情列在清单上，后来又决定不做。
It's not a grand mission anymore.
这不再是一个伟大的使命。
Now it's just a list.
现在它只是一个列表。
Kelly McEvers.
凯莉·麦克埃弗斯。
[MUSIC - "GOLDFINGER" BY DAVID SEDARIS]
[音乐 - 大卫·塞达里斯的《金手指》]
Billie Holiday imitator David Sedaris.
比莉·哈乐黛模仿者大卫·塞达里斯。
Coming up, exactly what Superman knows that Jigsaw Man doesn't, in a minute, from Public Radio International, when our program continues.
接下来，当我们的节目继续时，国际公共广播电台将介绍超人所知道而拼图人所不知道的事情。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Superpowers, and how easy it is to get caught up in the dream of superpowers.
今天的节目《超能力》，是多么容易让人陷入超能力的梦想。
We've arrived at Act Three.
我们已经到了第三幕了。
Act Three, The Green Team of Superhero Boy Millionaires, the Amazing Supermonkey from Planet Krypton, and the Man from Sram.
第三幕，超级英雄男孩百万富翁的绿色团队、来自氪星的神奇超级猴子和来自斯拉姆的男人。
My friends, they come in waves, 100 a year or more, whole armies of them.
我的朋友们，他们一波又一波地涌来，每年100人或更多，他们是整支军队。
I'm talking about new superheroes created by the comic book companies.
我说的是漫画公司创造的新超级英雄。
It is rare for any of them to last more than a few issues.
它们中很少有能持续超过几个问题的。
The website Gone and Forgotten is, as far as we can tell, the authoritative archive of these failed supersouls.
据我们所知，“消失和被遗忘”网站是这些失败的超灵的权威档案馆。
The guy who runs the site, under the title "Your Humble Editor," is Jonathan Morris.
该网站的运营者是乔纳森·莫里斯（Jonathan Morris），标题为“谦卑的编辑”。
He says that the few great superheroes have some common sense things going for them.
他说，少数伟大的超级英雄都有一些适合他们的常识。
One, they have powers that make intuitive sense.
第一，他们拥有具有直觉意义的力量。
Two, they have a reason for fighting crime.
第二，他们有打击犯罪的理由。
Three, their stories have a human touch to them.
第三，他们的故事充满人情味。
You can relate to them.
你可以与他们产生共鸣。
He agreed to come into the studio with a stack of some of the comics that do not quite measure up to those super-standards.
他同意带着一堆不太符合这些超级标准的漫画进入工作室。
I'm trying to find a very good one.
我正在努力寻找一个非常好的。
I've brought a ton of comics with me.
我随身带了一大堆漫画。
Let's see.
让我们来看看。
We've got Captain Marvel, who is one of the characters featured on the website.
我们有惊奇队长，他是网站上的特色角色之一。
His amazing power is that he can split, by which we mean his limbs fall off and then flail around.
他的惊人力量在于他可以分裂，这意味着他的四肢脱落，然后四处乱舞。
Hopefully, I imagine--
希望，我想象——
What?
什么？
Jonathan Morris --beating up the criminal.
乔纳森·莫里斯——殴打罪犯。
I'm not kidding.
我不是在开玩笑。
He says "Split!" His arms, legs, and head fall off, and he screams, "Yow!
他说：“分开吧！”他的胳膊、腿和头都掉下来了，他尖叫道：“哟！
I popped apart!" And with the word "Zam," he returns to normal, and he's flying into action.
我都崩溃了！”听到“Zam”这个词，他就恢复正常，开始行动。
I don't even know why.
我什至不知道为什么。
That is one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard.
这是我听过的最令人不安的事情之一。
This company had a number of characters who shared their names with pre-existing characters.
该公司有许多角色与先前存在的角色同名。
They had a Plastic Man who appeared in this very issue, in fact, but he was nothing like the famous Plastic Man.
事实上，他们有一个塑料人出现在这一期中，但他与著名的塑料人完全不同。
Which was always an embarrassment to him.
这对他来说始终是一种尴尬。
He'd be ordering online, or he'd--
他会在网上订购，或者他会——
Gets his mail all the time.
一直收到他的邮件。
Ira Glass Exactly.
艾拉·格拉斯 没错。
He'd make a reservation at a restaurant, and then he'd show up, and they're like, oh, we thought you were the other Plastic Man.
他会在一家餐厅订位，然后他出现，他们就像，哦，我们以为你是另一个塑料人。
And there's even a point where he hears people yell "Plastic Man" on the street, and he's long past the point where he's thinking, maybe they mean me.
甚至有一次，他听到人们在街上大喊“塑料人”，他早就不再想，也许他们指的是我。
No. He knows they mean the guy in the red.
不，他知道他们指的是那个穿红衣服的人。
Prez?
总统？
Jonathan Morris Prez.
乔纳森·莫里斯·普雷斯。
The first teen president of the United States.
美国第一位青少年总统。
A rather earnest young man named Prez Rickard becomes-- and with a name like that, how could he not?
一个名叫普雷兹·里卡德（Prez Rickard）的相当认真的年轻人——有了这样的名字，他怎么可能不呢？
He becomes the first teenage president of the United States.
他成为美国第一位青少年总统。
This is the issue right before he has to fight vampires, too, which was not a responsibility I was aware the president had.
这也是他必须与吸血鬼战斗之前的问题，我不知道这不是总统的责任。
But apparently, it's rather important.
但显然，这相当重要。
Now, what is his superpower?
现在，他的超能力是什么？
Like, what kind of president does he make?
比如，他会成为什么样的总统？
Well, he kind of fits in that Doc Savage-Batman mold, where he's mostly a very well-trained human.
嗯，他有点符合萨维奇博士-蝙蝠侠的模式，他基本上是一个训练有素的人。
He's taught by his-- I hate to say this-- his stalwart Indian companion how to develop the all-important Indian tracking skills.
他的——我不想这么说——他坚定的印度同伴教他如何发展最重要的印度追踪技能。
And thanks to his Indian companion Eagle Free's menagerie of animals, he learns several animal skills, helping teach Prez Rickard to be fast as an antelope, swing like a monkey, fight like a bear, I guess.
多亏了他的印度同伴 Eagle Free 的动物园里的动物，他学会了一些动物技能，我猜，帮助教会 Prez Rickard 学会像羚羊一样快，像猴子一样摇摆，像熊一样战斗。
You know, I've always thought that the United States presidency would be so much more effective if the president had the powers to communicate and control the animals.
你知道，我一直认为，如果总统拥有与动物沟通和控制的权力，美国总统的任期将会更加有效。
Well, if there's one thing that Prez proves, it's that there's nothing that the president couldn't solve with two fists, an Indian companion, and a small army of birds and elephants.
好吧，如果普雷兹证明了一件事，那就是总统用两个拳头、一个印度同伴以及一小群鸟类和大象，没有什么是解决不了的。
If you were to explain to people the characteristics of a bad comic book superhero--?
如果你要向人们解释一个糟糕的漫画超级英雄的特征——？
There are obviously a lot of ways you can screw up.
显然有很多方法可以搞砸。
One of the ways is to just overdo it and cram the elements of the character down the readers' throats.
其中一种方法就是做得太过分，将角色的元素塞进读者的喉咙里。
One of the characters was Bee-Man and everything about him was bees.
其中一个角色是蜜蜂人，他的一切都是蜜蜂。
His full name was Barry E.
他的全名是巴里·E。
Eames.
埃姆斯。
He was attacked by mutant bees which were sent to earth by space alien bee people.
他遭到了外星蜂人送到地球的变异蜜蜂的攻击。
And he himself became a mutant bee person who had bee powers, and lived in a hive, and ate honey, and stole gold because gold looked like honey.
他自己也变成了变异蜜蜂人，拥有蜜蜂的能力，住在蜂巢里，吃蜂蜜，还偷金子，因为金子看起来像蜂蜜。
And he could sting you.
他可能会蜇你。
There was nothing bee-related this man refused to do.
这个人没有拒绝做任何与蜜蜂有关的事情。
If you meet somebody at a bar, you start talking to him, and you realize, he only has one interest in life-- that's exactly what Bee-Man was.
如果你在酒吧遇到某人，你开始和他交谈，你就会意识到，他对生活只有一种兴趣——那就是蜜蜂人。
Everything would have gotten back to bees.
一切都会回到蜜蜂身上。
You start talking about what you watched on television last.
你开始谈论你最近在电视上看到的内容。
He'll say, you know, I saw an interesting show on bees.
他会说，你知道，我看了一个关于蜜蜂的有趣节目。
You know how there's certain stores, like in a neighborhood, and no matter what business moves in, they always fail?
你知道有些商店，比如在附近的商店，无论什么生意进来，它们总是会倒闭吗？
There's just one after another after another?
就只有一个接着一个吗？
Are there certain powers that when people try to give them to people, it's just inevitably a formula for failure?
是否存在某些权力，当人们试图将其赋予他人时，就不可避免地会导致失败？
There's one power that never survives on its own, and they always end up enhancing it.
有一种力量永远不会独自存在，而他们最终总是会增强它。
And that would be shrinking.
而且这个数字将会缩小。
Now, why would that be?
现在，为什么会这样呢？
Because that conforms to the rule of, there's something intuitive about that that anybody can understand.
因为这符合规则，所以有一些直观的东西，任何人都可以理解。
You get small.
你变小了。
There is something intuitive about that.
这是有一些直觉的。
But then you also realize that, all right, you're small.
但后来你也意识到，好吧，你还很小。
Now I can take you.
现在我可以带你了。
And usually the power that they'll add is what kind of thing?
而通常他们会增加的力量是什么样的东西？
Like, what kind of things will they add to the little guys?
比如，他们会给小家伙添加什么样的东西？
Well, usually the one they get is, you get to keep your full human strength.
好吧，通常他们得到的就是，你可以保留你全部的人类力量。
They like to give them something relating to being small.
他们喜欢给他们一些与小有关的东西。
Ant-Man has the ability to control ants.
蚁人有能力控制蚂蚁。
And again, as I say it, I realize that's probably not much better.
正如我所说，我再次意识到这可能也好不了多少。
He's as strong as a guy, and here are some ants.
他像个男人一样强壮，这里有一些蚂蚁。
He would just invade the picnics of supervillains.
他只会闯入超级恶棍的野餐。
Do certain comic superheroes come out of particular moments in the nation's history?
某些喜剧超级英雄是否来自国家历史上的特定时刻？
Positively.
积极地。
That's another thing that really works against a character, is when they're tied in too tightly to a fad, or tied in too tightly to something that is identifying an era.
这是另一件真正对角色不利的事情，那就是当他们与时尚太紧密地联系在一起，或者与识别一个时代的东西太紧密地联系在一起时。
There's a character created in the '70s, but who was supposed to be a retro character from the '50s, name of 3D-Man, to help hook up on the 3D movies that were a craze in the '50s.
有一个70年代创建的角色，但他应该是50年代的复古角色，名字叫3D-Man，以帮助连接50年代热潮的3D电影。
Terrible.
糟糕的。
Flat character.
扁平的性格。
Nothing going on.
没什么事发生。
And when you say 3D-Man, what was his power?
当你说3D-Man时，他的力量是什么？
He had a magical pair of glasses and had the strength of three men.
他拥有一副神奇的眼镜，拥有三人的力量。
And that's it.
就是这样。
He was as strong as three people, as fast as three people, whatever that means.
他的力量相当于三个人，速度相当于三个人，不管这意味着什么。
Probably three times faster than a human being.
可能比人类快三倍。
They always describe it as something as "so much as three men," but I don't see how he can be three times as-- or have "the agility of three men." There's just three guys who are agile.
他们总是将其描述为“相当于三个人”，但我不明白他如何能够达到三倍——或者说具有“三个人的敏捷性”。敏捷的家伙只有三个。
It doesn't make any sense.
这没有任何意义。
I have a little trouble with 3D-Man.
我在使用 3D-Man 时遇到了一些麻烦。
Part of the problem with just naming off the superheroes or going through their powers is that, on the face value, there's not a superhero who doesn't seem silly, because you have to get to a point where the man's wearing a costume and he's driving around fighting crime.
仅仅点出超级英雄的名字或展示他们的力量的部分问题在于，从表面上看，没有一个超级英雄看起来不傻，因为你必须达到一个穿着戏服、开车四处打击犯罪的地步。
Then where does the line come where they rise above that?
那么它们上升的界限在哪里呢？
Do you have a theory on this, about what makes a good one and a bad one?
你对此有什么理论，什么是好理论和坏理论？
I have sort of a half-formed theory.
我有一个半成形的理论。
I know that one of the things that really helps a superpower get over with the audience, get over with the readers, is if it's something they can apply to their normal lives, perhaps by way of fantasy.
我知道，真正帮助超级大国接受观众、接受读者的事情之一是，他们是否可以将其应用到他们的正常生活中，也许可以通过幻想的方式。
And that's, I think, why super strength, super speed, invulnerability, or just general toughness are often so common.
我认为，这就是为什么超强的力量、超快的速度、刀枪不入或一般的韧性常常如此常见。
If you can get on the court with it, get that super accuracy, and get a slam dunk from midcourt, and really just school over somebody, then that's probably a superpower you want.
如果你能在球场上使用它，获得超级准确度，并从中场扣篮，并且真的只是在某人身上学习，那么这可能就是你想要的超能力。
But when you start getting into powers like one character who had magnetic eyes of superpower, which is a little too esoteric to even understand.
但是当你开始像一个拥有超能力磁力眼睛的角色一样拥有超能力时，这有点太深奥了，甚至无法理解。
Yeah.
是的。
I don't even understand it.
我什至不明白。
What does it mean?
这是什么意思？
"Magnetic eyes of superpower"?
“超能力磁力眼”？
Yeah.
是的。
In his first appearance, he announced that he had magnetic eyes of superpower.
在他的第一次亮相中，他就宣称自己拥有超能力的磁力眼。
They would illustrate little beams coming out of his eyes, making metal things shoot right at them, which would be terrible in a room full of forks.
他们会描绘出从他的眼睛里射出的小光束，让金属物体直接射向他们，这在一个装满叉子的房间里会很糟糕。
Jonathan Morris, who brought a few of his 15,000 comics into the studio.
乔纳森·莫里斯 (Jonathan Morris) 将他的 15,000 幅漫画中的一些带进了工作室。
Search the internet for Gone and Forgotten and you'll find his site.
在互联网上搜索“Gone and Forgotten”，您会找到他的网站。
[MUSIC - "SIGNAL IN SKY" BY THE APPLES IN STEREO]
[音乐 - Apple 的立体声“天空信号”]
You may have read or heard something of this story, how in a civil war in Burma, the Karen people's guerrilla army, God's Army, had these two twin boys with them starting when the boys were just nine years old, Johnny and Luther Htoo.
你可能读过或听说过这个故事，在缅甸的一场内战中，克伦族游击队，上帝的军队，有两个双胞胎男孩，约翰尼和路德·图，他们从九岁开始就和他们在一起。
Finally, they came out of the jungle, smoking cigars and looking much younger than their 12 or 13 years.
最后，他们走出丛林，抽着雪茄，看上去比12、13岁的时候年轻得多。
But for a while, many people believed that they had superpowers.
但有一段时间，很多人都相信自己拥有超能力。
Jason Bleibtreu reported on them in Burma.
Jason Bleibtreu 在缅甸报道了他们的情况。
He says there was actually a legend that preceded their appearance.
他说在他们出现之前实际上有一个传说。
The legend of the twins had to do with Burmese mythology.
这对双胞胎的传说与缅甸神话有关。
And the mythology was, when the Karen people, which are an ethnic minority, when things are really tough for them, twins would appear.
神话是，当少数民族克伦人的生活非常艰难时，就会出现双胞胎。
The twins would have magical powers and they could save them from bad, from evil things.
这对双胞胎拥有神奇的力量，可以将他们从邪恶的事物中拯救出来。
And what superpowers did people believe they had, Johnny and Luther?
人们相信他们拥有什么超能力，约翰尼和路德？
The twins at one time claimed, and also their followers claimed, that the twins were able to command ghost armies.
这对双胞胎曾声称，他们的追随者也声称，这对双胞胎能够指挥幽灵军队。
Each twin had 200,000 to 300,000 soldiers that they could command.
每对双胞胎都可以指挥20万到30万士兵。
And when the fighting got tough, they could call on these ghosts and the ghosts would come to support them.
当战斗变得激烈时，他们可以召唤这些鬼魂，鬼魂就会来支援他们。
Other mystical powers were things such as bullets would bounce off of them, or if they were struck by shrapnel from a landmine, it would bounce off of them.
其他的神秘力量就是子弹之类的东西会从身上弹开，或者是被地雷的弹片击中，弹片也会从身上弹开。
Jason, in the course of your reporting, did you meet people who claimed to have witnessed the twins using any of these powers?
杰森，在你的报道过程中，你是否遇到过那些声称亲眼目睹双胞胎使用这些力量的人？
Oh yes.
哦是的。
Certainly.
当然。
I met several people, many people.
我遇到了很多人，很多人。
They told the stories about, during meditation, the kids would be meditating with the twins, and all of a sudden, they'd open their eyes, and there would be an old man sitting there.
他们讲述了这样的故事，在冥想时，孩子们会和双胞胎一起冥想，突然，他们睁开眼睛，会有一个老人坐在那里。
And it would be the body of an old man, but inside it would be one of the twins.
那将是一具老人的尸体，但里面却是双胞胎之一。
Another one was, they're going into battle.
另一个是，他们要上战场了。
So one of the twins took his weapon, his M-16, pointed it to the ground, and he fired 20 rounds.
于是，双胞胎中的一个拿起他的武器，他的 M-16，将其指向地面，开了 20 发子弹。
Later that day, his troops came back and said, we killed 20 soldiers.
那天晚些时候，他的部队回来说，我们杀了20名士兵。
He says, yes, we killed 20 soldiers because I fired 20 rounds into the ground.
他说，是的，我们杀了 20 名士兵，因为我向地面发射了 20 发子弹。
So I understand that, in the course of your reporting, you visited with the twins, is it twice?
所以我了解到，在您的报道过程中，您拜访了这对双胞胎，是两次吗？
While they were still out fighting?
当他们还在外面战斗的时候？
Yes.
是的。
I visited with God's Army several times.
我曾多次拜访过上帝军。
And when you would ask the twins directly, you know, do you have powers, let me see the powers, would they answer directly?
当你直接问双胞胎时，你知道，你有力量吗，让我看看力量，他们会直接回答吗？
Would they say, yes, I have these powers?
他们会说，是的，我有这些权力吗？
Or would they talk around it, you know?
或者他们会谈论它，你知道吗？
They would talk around it, and I would push and push and push, and I would get answers like, yes, I have magical powers.
他们会围绕这个问题进行讨论，而我会不断地推动，然后我会得到这样的答案：是的，我有魔力。
But those powers only come out in desperate situations, like when we're in battle.
但这些力量只有在绝望的情况下才会发挥出来，比如当我们在战斗中时。
I just can't bring up the magical powers just to show you.
我只是不能拿出魔法来给你看。
What was their affect?
他们的影响是什么？
How would they respond?
他们会如何回应？
Were they embarrassed?
他们感到尴尬吗？
What would they do?
他们会做什么？
I'd push with questions, and then they would get irritated.
我会提出问题，然后他们就会生气。
They would get angry.
他们会生气。
Several times Luther lifted up a machete and would threaten me with it.
有几次路德举起砍刀威胁我。
I could hear him through the translator.
我可以通过翻译听到他的声音。
I would get the translation.
我会得到翻译。
He would say stuff like, "This guy's bothering us, isn't he?
他会说这样的话：“这个家伙打扰了我们，不是吗？
Isn't he really bothering us now?" I don't think I like this guy."
他现在不是真的给我们添麻烦了吗？”我想我不喜欢这个人。”
And so what were they like?
那么他们是什么样的呢？
Jason Bleibtreu Luther was quite shy, fidgety.
杰森·布莱特鲁·路德 (Jason Bleibtreu Luther) 非常害羞、烦躁。
He seemed to lack much attention and strived to get attention.
他似乎缺乏太多关注，并努力引起关注。
Johnny is more confident and outgoing.
约翰尼更加自信和外向。
Both of them were treated like kings.
两人都受到了国王般的待遇。
Both of them rarely walked on the ground.
两人都很少在地上行走。
Most of the time, they were carried on someone's shoulders.
大多数时候，它们是被人扛在肩上的。
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
So then, in their own little world, they were sort of superheroes.
所以，在他们自己的小世界里，他们就是超级英雄。
Oh, certainly.
哦，当然。
One of the kids would bark out, "I want to smoke," and they would run out and they would grab the cigarette and light it.
其中一个孩子会大声喊道：“我想抽烟”，然后他们就会跑出去，抓起香烟并点燃。
He would want a lighter, they would run and grab a lighter.
他想要一个打火机，他们就会跑去抓一个打火机。
He'd want something to eat, they'd run off and get him something.
他想要吃点东西，他们就会跑去给他拿点东西。
He wanted to be lifted up, they would lift him up.
他想要被举起，他们就会举起他。
He wanted down, they would put him down.
他想要打倒，他们就会打倒他。
They would bark out commands, and most of the commands would be adhered to.
他们会大声发出命令，而大多数命令都会被遵守。
How do you think it affected them?
您认为这对他们有何影响？
Did you get a sense of that?
你感觉到了吗？
Certainly Luther, he wanted attention.
当然，路德希望得到关注。
He was a boy who needed to hug.
他是一个需要拥抱的男孩。
He was a boy who didn't have his mother around, didn't have his father around.
他是一个没有母亲在身边、没有父亲在身边的男孩。
There were no mother figures in the camp.
营地里没有母亲的身影。
They didn't want women there.
他们不想要女人在那里。
And it just seemed like he wanted some affection.
看起来他只是想要一些感情。
He would go from soldier's lap to soldier's lap, and he would just sit in the lap of the soldier.
他会从一个士兵的腿上走到另一个士兵的腿上，然后他就坐在士兵的腿上。
Or he would come up behind the soldier and he'd quickly put his hands around him and give him a little hug .
或者他会走到士兵身后，迅速用手搂住他，给他一个小小的拥抱。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: At the point when they surrendered to Thai troops, they wrote a letter to their mom, and the letter said, "In Burma, we were very hungry, but now we have food.
（采访者） IRA GLASS：当他们向泰国军队投降时，他们给妈妈写了一封信，信中说：“在缅甸，我们非常饥饿，但现在我们有食物了。
The Thai army is looking after us.
泰国军队正在照顾我们。
It is a nice life here.
这里的生活很美好。
We want to stay with you.
我们想和你在一起。
We miss you, Mommy."
我们想念你，妈妈。”
Yeah.
是的。
They didn't enjoy being in the mountains, on the run.
他们不喜欢在山里奔跑。
It was a tough life.
那是一段艰难的生活。
They weren't well-nourished.
他们营养不良。
And yeah, they missed their mother and they missed their father.
是的，他们想念他们的母亲，他们想念他们的父亲。
Do you think that the way the twins came to power in this group, that a part of them believed that they might have magical powers?
Do you think that the way the twins came to power in this group, that a part of them believed that they might have magical powers?
It's very difficult to say.
很难说。
They believed that they were special.
他们相信自己很特别。
They were treated special.
他们受到了特殊待遇。
I don't think that Johnny or Luther believed that they had magical powers.
我不认为约翰尼或路德相信他们有魔力。
I don't know.
我不知道。
If I were young child, and I were told that there was this legend that I and my twin were going to come and that we would have these special powers, a part of me probably would believe, well, I don't have the power right now, but maybe, in some circumstances, I could.
如果我还是个小孩子，有人告诉我有一个传说，说我和我的双胞胎将会到来，我们将拥有这些特殊的力量，我的一部分可能会相信，好吧，我现在没有这种力量，但也许，在某些情况下，我可以。
Yes, you have a point there.
是的，你说得有道理。
And it's quite possible.
这很有可能。
But I don't think that they believed that they ever did something magical.
但我不认为他们相信自己曾经做过神奇的事情。
Nor do I think that they were psychotic.
我也不认为他们有精神病。
I think that they were part of a con.
我认为他们是骗局的一部分。
When you say a con, you mean a con by whom, perpetrated on whom?
当你说“骗局”时，你指的是由谁实施、对谁实施的骗局？
God's Army, this group of the Karens, were down and out.
神军，这支克伦人，已经落魄了。
They needed some type of miracle.
他们需要某种奇迹。
They needed people to believe them.
他们需要人们相信他们。
I believe that they created Johnny and Luther, claiming that they were gods, so that they could con people into fighting for them and they could intimidate their enemies.
我相信他们创造了约翰尼和路德，声称他们是神，这样他们就可以欺骗人们为他们而战，并可以恐吓他们的敌人。
It's interesting.
这很有趣。
First they try to win through politics, and then through arms, and then when arms fail, they have to go straight to myth.
首先，他们试图通过政治获胜，然后通过武力获胜，然后当武力失败时，他们就不得不直接走向神话。
Yes, it's true.
是的，这是真的。
They were desperate.
他们很绝望。
They don't have anything left.
他们什么都没有剩下了。
They don't have that many fighters.
他们没有那么多战士。
They don't have resources.
他们没有资源。
They don't have many weapons.
他们没有太多武器。
And it's a desperate act by a group of desperate people.
这是一群绝望之人的绝望行为。
Did it work for a while?
有一段时间有效果吗？
Jason Bleibtreu Yes, it worked for a while.
Jason Bleibtreu 是的，它工作了一段时间。
And then the Burmese forces were intimidated by them and scared of them, and believed this.
And then the Burmese forces were intimidated by them and scared of them, and believed this.
So yes.
所以是的。
And they gathered a lot of support amongst the people in the mountains.
And they gathered a lot of support amongst the people in the mountains.
Jason Bleibtreu, speaking to us from Bangkok, Thailand.
Jason Bleibtreu，在泰国曼谷接受我们采访。
Our program was produced today by Alex Blumberg and myself with Blue Chevigny, Jonathan Goldstein, and Starlee Kine.
Our program was produced today by Alex Blumberg and myself with Blue Chevigny, Jonathan Goldstein, and Starlee Kine.
Senior producer Julie Snyder.
高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德。
Contributing editors Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, Alix Spiegel, Nancy Updike and Consigliere Sarah Vowell.
Contributing editors Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, Alix Spiegel, Nancy Updike and Consigliere Sarah Vowell.
Elizabeth Meister runs our website with production help from Todd Bachmann, Annie Baxter, and Jane Golombisky.
Elizabeth Meister runs our website with production help from Todd Bachmann, Annie Baxter, and Jane Golombisky.
Musical help today from Mr. John Connors.
今天约翰·康纳斯先生提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGMENTS] If you'd like to get a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago.
[ACKNOWLEDGMENTS] If you'd like to get a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago.
Look us up in the book or call 312-948-4680.
请在书中查找我们或致电 312-948-4680。
Or you know you can get tapes from our website, where perhaps in an economically unsound decision, we also make it possible for you to listen to our programs for free at www.thisamericanlife.org.
或者您知道您可以从我们的网站获取磁带，但我们也让您可以在 www.thisamericanlife.org 免费收听我们的节目，这也许是一个经济上不明智的决定。
There you can also find, this week, a cartoon by Chris Ware, who I interviewed at the beginning of the program today, a cartoon about superheroes and their power over us.
本周，您还可以在那里找到克里斯·韦尔（Chris Ware）的一部漫画，我在今天节目开始时采访了他，一部关于超级英雄及其对我们的力量的漫画。
It's really just beautiful.
真的很漂亮。
Chris, by the way, is the author of Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth.
Chris, by the way, is the author of Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth.
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who told me back when he hired me--
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who told me back when he hired me--
You have the ability to walk around work, show up at one point, and perhaps, like, go away for a little while, and turn invisible, and then come back and listen to what they say about you.
你有能力在工作中走来走去，在某一时刻出现，也许，离开一会儿，然后隐身，然后回来听听他们对你的评价。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。