165: Americans in Paris - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #165 | July 7, 2023 165: Americans in Paris Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 165 集 | 2023 年 7 月 7 日 165：美国人在巴黎 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Hi there, everybody.
序言 Ira Glass 大家好。
Ira Glass here.
艾拉·格拉斯在这里。
Today's program is a rerun, but from a long time ago, the year 2000.
今天的节目是重播，但时间是很久以前，2000 年。
So forgive any anachronisms you hear.
因此，请原谅您听到的任何不合时宜的内容。
That's a word a person doesn't get to say very often outside of the SATs.
这是一个人在 SAT 考试之外不会经常说的词。
Forgive any anachronisms.
原谅任何不合时宜的地方。
It's back when the person at the center of the story still smoked, back before Notre Dame started burning.
那是在故事中心的人还在抽烟的时候，在巴黎圣母院开始燃烧之前。
Anyway, it's a great show.
无论如何，这是一场精彩的演出。
We haven't aired it in forever.
我们还没有永远播出它。
A total favorite.
非常喜欢。
In honor of Bastille Day this month, here we go.
为了纪念本月的巴士底日，我们开始吧。
[CHATTER] A silky line of tourists waits on the grounds of an old medieval palace, now one of the most famous museums in the world.
[闲聊]一队游客在一座古老的中世纪宫殿前排队等候，这座宫殿现在是世界上最著名的博物馆之一。
I'm with David Sedaris who lives nearby.
我和住在附近的大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 在一起。
We're at the Louvre.
我们在卢浮宫。
And this is the closest I've ever come.
这是我最接近的一次。
I've never set foot inside the Louvre.
我从来没有进过卢浮宫。
Two years.
两年了。
But I still haven't visited.
但我还没去过。
I didn't see the point.
我没明白重点。
Why come to Paris and go to the one place where you're not allowed to smoke?
为什么来到巴黎还要去一个不准吸烟的地方呢？
As a matter of fact, it's my goal to be the only person who's come to Paris and has never set foot in the Louvre.
事实上，我的目标是成为唯一一个来过巴黎但从未踏足过卢浮宫的人。
You live how far from here?
你住的地方离这里有多远？
David Sedaris I'm probably about a 12-minute walk, 15-minute walk from the Louvre.
David Sedaris 我距离卢浮宫大约步行 12 分钟、15 分钟。
I'm close to Notre Dame, too, but I've never gone in there either.
我离巴黎圣母院也很近，但我也从未进去过。
It just doesn't interest me.
我只是不感兴趣。
I mean, I think so many people come here and they feel like they have to do certain things because somebody told them to do it, or they're going to go home and people will say, what do you mean you didn't see the Pantheon?
我的意思是，我认为很多人来到这里，他们觉得自己必须做某些事情，因为有人告诉他们这样做，否则他们要回家，人们会说，你没有看到万神殿是什么意思？
What do you mean you didn't go into the Louvre?
你没进卢浮宫是什么意思？
So I'm guessing that a good number of these people are just standing here because somebody told them that they should do it.
所以我猜这些人中有很多人站在这里只是因为有人告诉他们应该这样做。
I don't think that they're all museum-goers at home.
我不认为他们都是家里的博物馆常客。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Do people look back and remember the experience of standing in front of a painting?
人们回头看时会记得站在画前的经历吗？
I might remember eating something, or buying something, or seeing something, like an accident, or somebody who's really twisted up in some way, but not looking at a painting.
我可能记得吃了一些东西，买了一些东西，或者看到了一些东西，比如一场事故，或者某个人在某种程度上真的扭曲了，但不是在看一幅画。
Maybe I'm wrong.
也许我错了。
Maybe, for them, it doesn't get any better than this.
也许，对于他们来说，没有比这更好的了。
But I don't know.
但我不知道。
Just from people that I know that have come here, they go to the Louvre because somebody told them that they have to.
就我认识的来这里的人来说，他们去卢浮宫是因为有人告诉他们必须去。
Today on our radio program, where you might go in Paris instead of the Louvre.
今天在我们的广播节目中，您可能会去巴黎而不是卢浮宫。
I spent three days with David Sedaris, who writes a lot about what it's like to live in France.
我和大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 待了三天，他写了很多关于法国生活的文章。
He never saw the Eiffel Tower, or the Rodin Museum, or the famous cemetery where Marcel Proust and Jim Morrison are buried.
他从未见过埃菲尔铁塔，罗丹博物馆，或埋葬马塞尔·普鲁斯特和吉姆·莫里森的著名墓地。
No historical sites.
没有历史古迹。
Nothing having to do with the culture or language of the people of France.
与法国人民的文化或语言无关。
But if you want to know the best place to buy a model of a rotten tooth, or a collection of leeches, or a life-sized replica of a human head with the top cut off so you can see what's inside, David did show me that.
但如果你想知道哪里可以买到烂牙模型、水蛭模型、真人大小的头部复制品（顶部被切掉以便你可以看到里面的东西），大卫确实向我展示了这些。
This is a pretty good medical supply store.
这是一家相当不错的医疗用品店。
These body parts that they have here, they're handmade and hand-painted.
他们这里的这些身体部位是手工制作和手绘的。
And they're not nearly as expensive as you would think that they would be.
而且它们并不像您想象的那么贵。
I think I got my sister Gretchen a stomach-- or a backbone.
我想我给了我姐姐格雷琴一个胃——或者说是一个脊椎。
I got her a backbone made out of papier-mache for Christmas.
我给她买了一个用纸做的脊柱作为圣诞节礼物。
And I think it probably cost about $60, which is a great price for a backbone.
我认为它的价格可能约为 60 美元，这对于骨干来说是一个很好的价格。
Today in our program, Americans in Paris and how our Paris sometimes has very little to do with the one familiar to the locals.
今天在我们的节目中，美国人在巴黎以及我们的巴黎有时与当地人熟悉的巴黎没有什么关系。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
The French government says that three and a half million Americans visited Paris last year.
法国政府表示，去年有三百五十万美国人访问了巴黎。
The US government says it was more like two and a half million.
美国政府表示，这大约是二百五十万。
Either way, it is a lot more than the actual population of Paris, which is 2.1 million.
不管怎样，这都比巴黎的实际人口 210 万多得多。
Americans have dreamy and romantic ideas about Paris, more than other places, I think.
我认为，美国人对巴黎比其他地方更有梦幻和浪漫的想法。
In 1944, at the liberation of Paris from the Nazis, EB White wrote, "Probably one of the dullest stretches of prose in any man's library is the article in Paris in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
1944 年，巴黎从纳粹手中解放时，EB 怀特写道：“可能任何人的图书馆中最乏味的散文之一就是《大英百科全书》中有关巴黎的文章。
Yet when we heard the news of liberation, being unable to think of anything else to do, we sat down and read it straight through, from beginning to end.
然而，当我们听到解放的消息时，却无暇顾及其他事情，就坐下来从头到尾读了一遍。
Paris, we began, capital of France and of the Department of San, situated on the Ile de la Cite, the Ile St. Louis, and the Ile Louvier in the Seine, as well as on both banks of the Seine.
我们从巴黎开始，它是法国和桑省的首都，位于塞纳河的西岱岛、圣路易岛和卢维耶岛以及塞纳河两岸。
The words seemed like the beginning of a great poem.
这句话似乎是一首伟大诗篇的开头。
A feeling of simple awe overtook us as we slowly turned the page and settled down to a study of the city's weather graph and the view of the Seine looking east from Notre Dame.
当我们慢慢地翻过这一页并开始研究这座城市的天气图和从巴黎圣母院向东看到的塞纳河的景色时，一种简单的敬畏感笼罩着我们。
The rainfall is rather evenly distributed, continued the encyclopedist.
百科全书家继续说道，降雨量分布相当均匀。
Evenly distributed, we thought to ourselves, like the tears of those who love Paris."
我们心想，分布均匀，就像那些热爱巴黎的人的眼泪一样。”
But what is it actually like in Paris, really, without the rose-colored glasses, if you're American?
但如果你是美国人，在没有玫瑰色眼镜的情况下，巴黎实际上是什么样子呢？
Well, our This American Life team headed overseas to find out.
好吧，我们的《美国生活》团队前往海外寻找答案。
And let's just pause for a moment.
让我们暂停一下。
What exactly does that sound like, you wonder?
您想知道这听起来到底是什么样的吗？
Well, here's a recording.
嗯，这是一段录音。
Well, in act one of our program today, "Him Talk Pretty Three Days," David Sedaris gives me and you a walking tour of his favorite places in the city that he calls home.
好吧，在我们今天的节目之一“他说得漂亮三天”中，大卫·塞达里斯带我和你们步行参观了他称之为家的城市中他最喜欢的地方。
Act two, "Ca Vie Americaine," in which we try to answer the question, what is it that some Americans see in Paris anyway?
第二幕“美国生活”，我们试图回答这个问题：一些美国人在巴黎看到了什么？
What is the draw?
抽奖是什么？
Act three, "Notes of a Native Daughter--" why it helps sometimes to pretend your French accent is worse than it really is, and why it's harder to cut into a movie line in Paris than in New York, and whether it is the same for African-Americans these days in Paris as it was in the heyday of James Baldwin and Sidney Bechet.
第三幕，《土生女的手记》——为什么有时假装自己的法国口音比实际口音更糟糕会有所帮助，为什么在巴黎比在纽约更难切入电影台词，以及如今在巴黎的非裔美国人是否与詹姆斯·鲍德温和西德尼·贝切特的全盛时期一样。
Answers.
答案。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act one, "Him Talk Pretty Three Days." Two years ago, at the age of 41, barely speaking French, David Sedaris moved to Paris.
第一幕，“他说了三天。”两年前，41 岁的大卫·塞达里斯 (David Sedaris) 搬到了巴黎，他几乎不会说法语。
He had no special feelings about France, no particular interest in the French.
他对法国没有特别的感情，对法国人也没有特别的兴趣。
It would be the same if it's Korea, he said to me, a sentence that, I think, if the French ever heard that he said it, they would deport him.
他对我说，如果是在韩国，情况也是一样，我想，如果法国人听到他说过这句话，他们会把他驱逐出境。
He moved for two reasons-- one, his boyfriend Hugh had a rundown house in Normandy, and, two, why not?
他搬家有两个原因——一是他的男朋友休在诺曼底有一所破旧的房子，二是为什么不呢？
And over the course of two years, he has written extensively about his experience in stories for the radio, for magazines, and for his newest book.
在两年的时间里，他为广播、杂志和他的最新书籍撰写了大量关于他的故事经验的文章。
In his stories, David portrays life in Paris as a series of humiliations and near-humiliations.
大卫在他的故事中将巴黎的生活描绘成一系列的羞辱和近乎羞辱。
And if you hang out with him for a few days, you realize he is not exaggerating much.
如果你和他待了几天，你就会发现他并没有夸大其词。
We'd barely gone three blocks from his apartment on our walking tour Paris when he stopped on the sidewalk.
在巴黎步行之旅中，我们刚走出他的公寓三个街区，他就停在了人行道上。
OK, my lighter has run out of fluid, which would mean that I would have to ask somebody for a match.
好吧，我的打火机没油了，这意味着我得找人要火柴。
And so what I would say is, hello, do you have some fire?
所以我想说的是，你好，你有火吗？
And I so hate saying that that I usually carry four lighters on me so I always have a backup.
我很讨厌说我通常随身携带四个打火机，所以我总是有一个备用。
So you're just digging into your bag here.
所以你只需在这里翻看你的包。
Extra cigarettes.
额外的香烟。
I know I must have a lighter in here.
我知道我这里一定有打火机。
I will not spend the afternoon asking people if they have fire.
我不会花整个下午的时间询问人们是否有火。
I was curious about David's thoughts about Paris, precisely because he was never somebody who had any special feelings for the place.
我很好奇大卫对巴黎的想法，正是因为他从来都不是一个对巴黎有什么特殊感情的人。
He didn't move here with his head full of Ernest Hemingway, Gertrude Stein, Sartre, and Proust.
他搬到这里时并没有满脑子都是欧内斯特·海明威、格特鲁德·斯坦、萨特和普鲁斯特。
He was a blank slate.
他是一张白板。
And so for several hours every day I was in Paris, David would walk me to the places he finds most interesting.
因此，我每天在巴黎的几个小时里，大卫都会带我去他认为最有趣的地方。
And the first thing I learned was this.
我学到的第一件事就是这个。
It is so traumatic to learn a new language that a lot of David's experience of the city, a lot of his personal geography of Paris, has to do simply with where people are cruel to him when he speaks and where they aren't.
学习一门新语言是如此痛苦，大卫对这座城市的很多经历，他对巴黎的很多个人地理，都与他说话时人们对他残忍的地方和不说话的地方有关。
This is a hardware store where the owner and the people who work there are really, really nice to me.
这是一家五金店，店主和在那里工作的人对我都非常非常好。
I buy things here all the time.
我一直在这里买东西。
And I buy things that I don't even need just because they're so kind.
我买一些我根本不需要的东西只是因为它们很友善。
And they generally just start laughing right when I walk in the door.
当我走进门时，他们通常就开始大笑。
And then the owner will call his assistants out of the back room and say, he's back, he's back!
然后主人就会从里屋叫助手出来，说，他回来了，他回来了！
And I buy things like-- I bought a heating element so I could make tea in my hotel room, because I had to go to Germany.
我买了一些东西——我买了一个加热元件，这样我就可以在酒店房间泡茶，因为我必须去德国。
So I could go in and say, hello, I am looking for a stick that make the water hot, hot today.
所以我可以进去说，你好，我正在寻找一根可以让今天的水变得很热的棍子。
So I say really stupid things when I go in there.
所以当我进去的时候我会说一些非常愚蠢的话。
But I only say it in French.
但我只用法语说。
But they're incredibly good sports.
但它们是非常好的运动。
And I bought an ironing board.
我还买了一块烫衣板。
And I was able to say, hello, it has been three weeks.
我可以说，你好，已经三周了。
I bought an iron.
我买了一个熨斗。
Now, today, I look for a table that might work with my iron.
现在，今天，我正在寻找一张适合我的熨斗的桌子。
Have you such a table?
你有这样的桌子吗？
And he said, ah, an ironing board, and went and got one out of the back.
他说，啊，一块熨衣板，然后从后面拿出了一块。
But he's really, really nice.
但他真的非常非常好。
And it's a place I can always count on where somebody is going to be good to me.
这是一个我总是可以信赖的地方，有人会对我很好。
Do we want to walk in the hardware store?
我们想走进五金店吗？
Do we need anything?
我们需要什么吗？
Do they sell batteries?
他们卖电池吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Could you get me some AA batteries for the camera?
Ira Glass 你能给我一些相机用的 AA 电池吗？
It's a tiny store, just enough room for a few customers to stand, a store that's taller than it is wide, with shelves full of merchandise running up to the ceiling, plus brooms, feather dusters, baskets simply hanging over our heads to be retrieved by a hook on the end of a stick.
这是一家很小的商店，只够几个顾客站立，商店的高度比宽度还高，货架上摆满了商品，一直延伸到天花板，还有扫帚、鸡毛掸子、篮子，这些篮子简单地挂在我们头上，可以用棍子末端的钩子取出。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Customer [SPEAKING FRENCH]
[说法语] 客户 [说法语]
[SPEAKING FRENCH] David Sedaris [SPEAKING FRENCH]
[说法语] David Sedaris [说法语]
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Shop Owner [SPEAKING FRENCH]
[说法语] 店主 [说法语]
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Ira Glass This is my boyfriend, David says, trying to say, this is my friend.
[说法语] Ira Glass 这是我的男朋友，David 试图说，这是我的朋友。
He is making a documentary of my life.
他正在制作一部关于我生活的纪录片。
He tapes everything.
他把一切都录下来。
[SPEAKING FRENCH] Ira Glass We pay, there's small talk, and we're back on the street in less than a minute and a half.
[说法语] Ira Glass 我们付了钱，闲聊了一下，不到一分半钟我们就回到了街上。
See, that's what's so nice about that guy.
你看，这就是那个家伙的优点。
I went in and he said, I haven't seen you for a long time.
我进去了，他说，好久不见了。
Have you been on vacation?
你去度假了吗？
And that's just worth the world to me.
这对我来说是值得的。
That is so incredibly nice, for somebody to notice your absence.
有人注意到你的缺席真是太好了。
Some shopkeepers don't notice him.
有些店主没有注意到他。
He'd been buying his newspaper from the same woman in his neighborhood seven days a week for over a year.
一年多来，他每周 7 天都从邻居的同一个女人那里购买报纸。
And recently she said to him out of the blue, are you a tourist here on vacation?
最近她突然对他说，你是来这里度假的游客吗？
And I said, I've been coming here and buying my newspaper every day for the last 19 months.
我说，在过去的 19 个月里，我每天都来这里买报纸。
No, I'm not on vacation.
不，我不是在度假。
I have an apartment around the corner.
我在拐角处有一间公寓。
But it took that long for her even to acknowledge that she had seen me before.
但过了很长时间她才承认她以前见过我。
But that's why I go there everyday.
但这就是我每天都去那里的原因。
I was waiting for that moment, for her to recognize me.
我一直在等待那一刻，等待她认出我。
We go into a chocolate shop and a bookstore and a cafe.
我们走进一家巧克力店、一家书店和一家咖啡馆。
And each place we go, if there's a little conversation, just normal small talk, and it goes OK, he's really delighted and can recite it all for me afterwards, line by line.
我们去的每个地方，如果有一点对话，只是正常的闲聊，一切顺利，他真的很高兴，然后可以逐行地背诵给我听。
When he first moved here, when his French class wasn't going so well, he was constantly being scolded by people for not understanding the simplest things-- directions, prices, the proper change.
当他刚搬到这里时，法语课进展得不太顺利，他经常被人们责骂，因为他不懂最简单的事情——方向、价格、适当的零钱。
People here are crazy about exact change, he swears to me.
这里的人们对精确的改变非常着迷，他向我发誓。
He realized at some point that he could make it all feel better if he transformed himself from the inept foreigner to the inept foreigner with a charge card.
他在某个时候意识到，如果他把自己从一个无能的外国人变成一个拿着签账卡的无能外国人，他会让一切感觉更好。
People will be really nice to you if you spend a lot of money.
如果你花很多钱，人们会对你很好。
So then I just started going out and buying things.
然后我就开始出去买东西。
I could have a bad day in school.
我可能会在学校度过糟糕的一天。
I'd go out after school and buy a desk, or pricey lamps.
放学后我会出去买一张桌子或昂贵的台灯。
Because people were unfailingly nice while I was writing out that check.
因为当我写支票时，人们总是很友善。
And I would say the most screwed up thing, and they would say, oh, you speak so well.
我会说最糟糕的事情，他们会说，哦，你说得很好。
And they would compliment me.
他们会称赞我。
And I would feel so good.
我会感觉很好。
And then I would leave, and I would think, wait a minute.
然后我会离开，我会想，等一下。
And it took a while to get that under control.
花了一段时间才得到控制。
So just observing your day, as an outsider, I feel like you've put yourself into this position where the smallest human acts of kindness have turned out to mean so much.
因此，作为一个局外人，观察一下你的一天，我觉得你已经把自己置于这样的境地：人类最小的善举都变得意义重大。
They have, whereas before, they were things that I didn't really think about.
他们曾经有过，而以前，我并没有真正考虑过这些事情。
It doesn't take much to make me happy now.
现在不需要太多就能让我快乐。
Whereas before, I feel like it took quite a bit.
而之前，我觉得花了相当多的时间。
Is your experience here more of a feeling of adventure or more a feeling of humiliation?
你在这里的经历更多的是一种冒险的感觉还是更多的一种屈辱的感觉？
It's more a feeling of humiliation.
更多的是一种屈辱的感觉。
It would be a feeling of adventure if I were a different type of person, if I were a more adventurous person.
如果我是一个不同类型的人，如果我是一个更有冒险精神的人，那将是一种冒险的感觉。
But for me to get on a train and go to Switzerland, I don't think, oh, good, I get to have an adventure.
但对我来说，坐火车去瑞士，我不认为，哦，很好，我可以去冒险。
I think, oh, great, I get to make an ass out of myself in two different languages.
我想，哦，太棒了，我可以用两种不同的语言大显身手。
Because that's what I wind up doing.
因为这就是我最终要做的事情。
In Germany, they always include breakfast with your hotel.
在德国，酒店总是包含早餐。
I'm not a breakfast eater.
我不是一个吃早餐的人。
But I want a cup of coffee or something.
但我想要一杯咖啡什么的。
And I stayed at a hotel in Germany-- I don't remember the town-- the last time I was there.
上次我去德国时，我住在德国的一家酒店——我不记得是哪个城镇了。
And so I go downstairs to have my breakfast, and there's six people seated at a table.
于是我下楼去吃早餐，一张桌子旁坐着六个人。
And usually they've got lots of tables.
通常他们有很多桌子。
But here, there's only one table.
但这里只有一张桌子。
And I'm thinking, well, I don't really want to sit with six people.
我在想，好吧，我真的不想和六个人坐在一起。
But if I turn around and leave, then they'll think that I'm being rude.
但如果我转身离开，他们就会认为我无礼。
So I've gotten this far.
所以我已经走到这一步了。
So I have to sit down at the table with these six people.
所以我必须和这六个人坐在桌边。
So I pull out a chair.
于是我拉出一把椅子。
And the man says something to me in German.
那个人用德语对我说了些什么。
And I say, oh, no, just coffee for me.
我说，哦，不，只给我一杯咖啡。
I'm fine with that.
我对此很满意。
And what he was trying to tell me was that I was in his kitchen.
他想告诉我的是我在他的厨房里。
This was the kitchen of the owner.
这是主人的厨房。
And this was the owner of the hotel and his family sitting down to breakfast.
这是酒店的老板和他的家人坐下来吃早餐。
I just saw this door and I opened it, and I was in their quarters.
我刚刚看到这扇门，我打开它，我就到了他们的宿舍。
And then he had to go and wake up his nine-year-old so his nine-year-old could come and explain to me in English that, in fact, the dining room was downstairs.
然后他不得不去叫醒他九岁的孩子，这样他九岁的孩子就可以过来用英语向我解释说，事实上，餐厅就在楼下。
And so I didn't see it as an adventure.
所以我并不认为这是一次冒险。
It just happened.
它就这样发生了。
David moved here at a particular moment in his life.
大卫在他生命中的一个特定时刻搬到了这里。
After years of making his living cleaning apartments and carrying furniture, he finally had published books, made the bestseller list, was on the radio, went on tours, and filled 2,000 and 5,000-seat halls with people who wanted to hear him read.
经过多年以打扫公寓和搬运家具为生，他终于出版了书籍，登上了畅销书排行榜，登上了广播电台，进行了巡回演出，并让 2,000 和 5,000 个座位的大厅里挤满了想听他读书的人。
And I think most people are built to take only so much of that, to have people think that we're somebody.
我认为大多数人生来就只能接受这么多，让人们认为我们是重要的人。
I think, for most people, for people who are not hopeless egomaniacs, there is a normal balancing that has to happen, of believing that they're a somebody to believing that they're a nobody.
我认为，对于大多数人来说，对于那些不是绝望的自大狂的人来说，必须存在一种正常的平衡，即相信自己是一个重要人物，而不是相信自己是一个无名小卒。
There's a ratio, a balance that has to happen in most people's heads.
大多数人的头脑中必须存在一个比例和平衡。
I've known David for 10 years.
我认识大卫已有十年了。
And I think that what happened to him is that the somebody side of that equation got crazily inflated, fantastically inflated.
我认为发生在他身上的事情是，等式中的某人一方变得疯狂地膨胀，令人难以置信地膨胀。
And so the nobody side had to hyper-inflate to catch up.
因此，无人一方必须过度膨胀才能迎头赶上。
They had to balance out.
他们必须保持平衡。
If a nation of book-buying adults was going to tell him how great he was back home, he needed an entire second nation of adults reminding him that, really, how important was he?
如果一个买书的成年人要告诉他他在家乡有多么伟大，那么他需要整个第二个成年人提醒他，他真的有多重要？
Yeah, that's exactly the case.
是的，确实如此。
When I do go back, it's not like going from-- I don't know-- having an audience to being anonymous.
当我回去时，这并不像从——我不知道——有观众到匿名。
It's "Beneath the Planet of the Apes." It's going from having an audience to being a foreigner, which is the lowest lifeform, to be a foreigner.
这是《猩球崛起》。就是从有观众到成为外国人，这是最低级的生命体，成为外国人。
When you were a kid, were you feeling humiliated a lot?
当你还是个孩子的时候，你是否经常感到羞辱？
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, I always had.
我的意思是，我一直都有。
I didn't want to open my mouth, because I lisped and I sounded like a girl.
我不想张开嘴，因为我口齿不清，听起来像个女孩。
So it's a feeling that I'm used to.
所以这种感觉我已经习惯了。
Really, the feeling that I get here is more comfortable to me.
确实，来到这里的感觉对我来说更舒服。
One day, David takes me to a cafe that he goes to all the time, often alone.
有一天，大卫带我去了一家他经常去的咖啡馆，而且常常是独自一人。
And I'm surprised when he tells me that he is somebody who, until recently, had trouble going to a restaurant or cafe by himself just to get a cup of coffee.
当他告诉我他直到最近还很难独自去餐馆或咖啡馆喝杯咖啡时，我感到很惊讶。
Because I'm always afraid that they're not going to see me there.
因为我总是担心他们在那里看不到我。
And then I'll just be stuck there.
然后我就会被困在那里。
And other people will say, look, no one's waited on that guy, and he's been there for half an hour, and he doesn't know what to do with himself.
其他人会说，你看，没人等那个家伙，他已经在那里呆了半个小时了，他不知道自己该怎么办。
I get terribly self-conscious in those situations.
在这种情况下我会变得非常不自在。
I mean, do you?
我是说，你呢？
I'm not scared that, if I'm sitting in a restaurant alone, they won't see me.
我并不担心，如果我独自坐在餐厅里，他们不会看到我。
I assume that they'll see me and that they'll wait on me.
我想他们会看到我并且会等我。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
It's a business.
这是一门生意。
And they need the money.
他们需要钱。
And so they'll usually wait on you.
所以他们通常会等你。
No, but I'm always convinced that they don't see me and that they're not going to wait on me.
不，但我始终坚信他们看不到我，也不会等我。
And it just seemed to happen to me so many times in my life, that I would go into a place, and then you have to pretend like you're leaving of your own volition, like you've been waiting for somebody.
在我的一生中，这种事似乎发生过很多次，我会走进一个地方，然后你必须假装你是自愿离开的，就像你一直在等某人一样。
And then you look at your watch, like, darn, well, I guess they're not going to show.
然后你看看你的手表，就像，该死，好吧，我猜他们不会显示。
I'm not going to sit around here and wait any longer.
我不会再坐在这里等待了。
And you make this whole little play that you do.
你所做的这整场小戏都是你做的。
But really, nobody's watching it.
但实际上，没人看。
But it's very elaborate.
但它非常复杂。
And then you can get up and leave.
然后你就可以起身离开了。
The thing is, what you're describing is, you're sitting there, and you think that other people are watching in such a way that they will think, oh, that guy hasn't gotten waited on?
问题是，你所描述的是，你坐在那里，你认为其他人正在以这样的方式观看，他们会想，哦，那个家伙没有得到等待？
Because that's what I do.
因为这就是我所做的。
I look at people like that.
我就是这样看人的。
And I notice when it happens to other people.
我注意到这种情况何时发生在其他人身上。
And it's because I look at things like that that I imagine that everybody else is.
正是因为我以这样的方式看待事物，所以我想象其他人也是如此。
This turns out to be quite a burden to carry into a foreign country.
事实证明，携带到国外是一个相当大的负担。
If somebody does something stupid in front of him, David says, he goes home, writes it down, tells his friends, sometimes turns it into a story that he reads in front of thousands or tens of thousands of strangers.
大卫说，如果有人在他面前做了一些愚蠢的事情，他就会回家把它写下来，告诉他的朋友，有时会把它变成一个故事，在成千上万的陌生人面前读。
And so when he says something stupid in French, which he does daily, he believes that it is possible the shopkeepers or waiters just shrug it off and never think about it again.
因此，当他用法语说一些愚蠢的话时（他每天都会这样做），他相信店主或服务员可能只是耸耸肩，再也不会考虑它。
But it seems just as possible that they go, tell their friends, and laugh at him.
但他们似乎也有可能去告诉他们的朋友，然后嘲笑他。
That's why I get so embarrassed of the way that I speak.
这就是为什么我对自己说话的方式感到如此尴尬。
It's because I go home and I write everything down.
因为我回家后就把一切都写下来了。
That's the way I am.
我就是这样。
I assume that everybody else is that way as well.
我想其他人也都是这样。
We walk to the places that David likes best in Paris.
我们步行前往大卫在巴黎最喜欢的地方。
And it's like hopping from one discreet island that David had already explored and found to be safe for human habitation to the next discreet island.
这就像从大卫已经探索过并发现适合人类居住的一个不显眼的岛屿跳到下一个不显眼的岛屿。
I think this is the way that anybody gets to know any new city, especially a city where you do not speak the language.
我认为这是任何人了解任何新城市的方式，尤其是一个你不会说这种语言的城市。
You try one place, and then you try a second place.
您尝试一个地方，然后尝试第二个地方。
And you return to those places over and over, slowly expanding your territory to gradually include more little spots that you return to.
你一遍又一遍地回到这些地方，慢慢地扩大你的领地，逐渐包括更多你返回的小地点。
The places David takes me to usually had one of these characteristics.
大卫带我去的地方通常具有以下特征之一。
There were fantastically unusual and interesting things to buy.
有非常不寻常和有趣的东西可以买。
They were places of a type which simply do not exist in the United States.
这些地方在美国根本不存在。
And they were places where the French was usually very simple.
这些地方的法国人通常都很简单。
[CHILDREN YELLING] Ira Glass Often, this meant the presence of children.
[孩子们大喊大叫] Ira Glass 通常，这意味着有孩子在场。
At the Luxembourg Gardens, there's an old puppet theater where we see Treasure of the Sultans.
在卢森堡花园，有一个古老的木偶剧院，我们在那里看到苏丹的宝藏。
It's like watching an art form as sturdy and indestructible as the cockroach-- the slapstick, the menacing character sneaking up behind our heroes' backs so everybody yells in warning.
这就像观看一种像蟑螂一样坚固且坚不可摧的艺术形式——闹剧，险恶的角色偷偷地潜到我们英雄的背后，让每个人都大喊警告。
And there always comes a point where he hits somebody over the head with a stick.
总有一天，他会用棍子打某人的头。
And the kids just eat it up.
孩子们就把它吃光了。
When he starts hitting people with the stick, they go bananas.
当他开始用棍子打人时，他们就会发疯。
This is the fourth time I've seen The Treasure of the Sultans.
这是我第四次看到苏丹的宝藏。
I just like coming because it just makes me so happy to be around people who are so happy.
我只是喜欢来，因为和快乐的人在一起让我很高兴。
After the princess is safe from the pirates and the friendly tiger is rescued from the savage jungle to come live in Paris, we head outside to the carousel, where six-year-olds are strapped onto wooden horses and handed little wooden sticks, play a game that dates to 16th century Europe, or possibly earlier, a jousting game where they tried to spear a dangling ring while speeding by on horseback.
公主从海盗手中安全逃脱，友好的老虎从野蛮丛林中获救，来到巴黎生活后，我们前往旋转木马，在那里，六岁的孩子被绑在木马上，手里拿着小木棍，玩一种可以追溯到 16 世纪欧洲或更早的游戏，他们在马背上飞驰时试图用矛刺穿一个悬挂的环。
[CHILD YELLING] David also takes me to one of the tiny mom-and-pop theaters in his neighborhood.
[孩子大喊]大卫还带我去了他附近的一家小型夫妻剧院。
The whole culture of movies is different in Paris, with hundreds of theaters showing all sorts of movies, new and old.
巴黎的电影文化是不同的，有数百家剧院放映各种新旧电影。
(SUBJECT) MOVIE CHARACTER 1: Nice little place you have here, Lydecker.
（主题）电影人物 1：莱德克，你这里的小地方真不错。
(SUBJECT) MOVIE CHARACTER 2: It's lavish, but I call it home.
（主题）电影人物 2：这里很奢华，但我称之为家。
David sees a movie everyday in Paris.
大卫在巴黎每天都看电影。
He also takes me to the flea market that's open every weekend on the outskirts of the city.
他还带我去了城郊每个周末开放的跳蚤市场。
It's a sprawling warren of booths selling old paintings, watches, and what amount to five centuries of coffee table decorations.
这是一个杂乱无章的摊位，出售旧画、手表和长达五个世纪的咖啡桌装饰品。
We find a device in one store from the early days of telephones.
我们在一家商店里找到了一种电话早期的设备。
It's just a paper cone, really, designed to be attached to a telephone inside a theater so your family at home could supposedly listen in on the concert or play over the telephone, in defiance, I might add, of all the principles of proper microphone placement.
实际上，它只是一个纸盆，旨在连接到剧院内的电话上，这样您家里的家人就可以收听音乐会或通过电话播放，我可能会补充说，这违背了正确放置麦克风的所有原则。
But that wasn't the highlight of our flea market trip.
但这并不是我们跳蚤市场之旅的亮点。
Whereas most places here, people have their booth-- I was here the last shopping day before Christmas.
而这里的大多数地方，人们都有自己的摊位——我是在圣诞节前的最后一个购物日来到这里的。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
That's Judge Judy.
那是朱迪法官。
That's Judge Judy with that white parka on.
那是穿着白色派克大衣的朱迪法官。
I love Judge Judy!
我爱朱迪法官！
And that was her right there!
那就是她！
Should we say something?
我们应该说些什么吗？
David Sedaris No. If you watch her show, you get the idea that saying something-- bothering somebody like that is so inappropriate.
大卫·塞达里斯（David Sedaris） 不。如果你看她的节目，你就会觉得说一些话——像那样打扰别人是非常不合适的。
And that's what she does for a living, is tell people that they're acting inappropriately.
这就是她的谋生之道，就是告诉人们他们的行为不当。
I can't believe that we saw her.
我不敢相信我们看到了她。
I love Judge Judy so much.
我非常喜欢朱迪法官。
I wish that she would run for mayor of New York.
我希望她竞选纽约市长。
Wow, Judge Judy.
哇，朱迪法官。
Is that your biggest celebrity sighting in a while in Paris?
这是您近期在巴黎看到的最大规模的名人吗？
I saw Catherine Deneuve.
我看到了凯瑟琳·德纳芙。
But Judge Judy is bigger than Catherine Deneuve, as far as I'm concerned.
但就我而言，朱迪法官比凯瑟琳·德纳芙更伟大。
This square up here, this is the Pantheon.
这里的广场，就是万神殿。
And again, I've never been inside of it.
再说一遍，我从来没有进去过。
But I know that all kinds of famous French people are entombed here.
但我知道这里埋葬着各种法国名人。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I think Balzac's here or people like that, really super famous writers.
我认为巴尔扎克在这里或者类似的人，都是非常著名的作家。
But I've never set foot inside.
但我从来没有踏进过里面。
But I like the frozen grocery store that's across the street from it.
但我喜欢街对面的冷冻杂货店。
This store is part of a chain that's all over France called Picard.
这家商店是一家遍布法国的连锁店 Picard 的一部分。
Everything they sell is frozen.
他们卖的所有东西都是冷冻的。
And they've got this method for freezing that I don't think we have in the United States.
他们有这种冷冻方法，我认为我们在美国没有。
They could freeze lettuce.
他们可以冷冻生菜。
And they've got everything in there, from meat to frozen soups and spices.
他们那里什么都有，从肉到冷冻汤和香料。
But it's not like TV dinners.
但这不像电视晚餐。
You can buy a little packet of ostrich chops, or of horse meat, or duck legs stuffed with prunes and sausage.
你可以买一小包鸵鸟排，或者马肉，或者塞满李子和香肠的鸭腿。
And they're sold just in plastic bags.
而且它们仅装在塑料袋中出售。
So they've taken the stigma out of frozen food.
所以他们消除了冷冻食品的耻辱。
And every French person I've talked to swears by this store, especially people who have kids.
我交谈过的每个法国人都对这家商店发誓，尤其是有孩子的人。
Because the food is really, really good.
因为食物真的非常非常好。
And if you opened one of these in the United States, you would just be minting money.
如果你在美国开设其中一家，你就会赚到钱。
You wouldn't be able to count the money fast enough.
你数钱的速度不够快。
I guarantee you.
我向你保证。
It would be such a huge success.
这将是一个巨大的成功。
Inside, it is exactly what you want when you're traveling in a foreign country.
在里面，这正是您在异国旅行时想要的。
Every object is familiar, but packaged and presented in a way that is pleasingly new and exotic.
每一件物品都是熟悉的，但包装和呈现的方式却是令人愉悦的新颖和异国情调。
So it's all comprehensible but, at the same time, palpably foreign.
所以这一切都是可以理解的，但同时又明显是陌生的。
And the foods walk that disturbing but fascinating line that foreign foods can have between looking delicious and looking frightening-- snails packed in green stuff in their shells of many different sizes, coolers full of massive frozen crayfish that look like they're about to come back to life, pre-made shish kabobs, osso buco.
这些食物走在外国食物看起来美味和看起来可怕之间的那条令人不安但又迷人的界限——蜗牛的壳里装满了绿色的东西，大小不一，冷藏箱里装满了看起来即将复活的巨大冷冻小龙虾，预制的烤肉串和炖牛膝。
We pick up a few things.
我们挑选一些东西。
And then down the hill, we stop at the regular supermarket for a quick run to the dairy case.
然后下山，我们在一家普通超市停下来，快速跑到乳制品柜前。
Hugh screamed at me last night, he was so ashamed of the butter that we served during dinner.
休昨晚对我尖叫，他对我们晚餐时提供的黄油感到非常羞愧。
And he held this brand of butter right up to my face and told me I'm never, ever, ever allowed to buy it again.
他把这个牌子的黄油举到我面前，告诉我，我永远、永远、永远不被允许再买它。
So I'm here to replace that butter.
所以我来这里是为了更换黄油。
It was this, but it's Grand Jury brand, a butter of Brittany.
是这个，但它是大陪审团品牌，布列塔尼的黄油。
And I'm not allowed to buy that anymore.
而且我不被允许再买那个了。
Why?
为什么？
David Sedaris Because Hugh's really picky about things like that.
大卫·塞达里斯（David Sedaris）：因为休对这类事情非常挑剔。
He said, I saw Ira putting that butter on bread, and he had four pieces of bread.
他说，我看到艾拉把黄油涂在面包上，他有四片面包。
I'm so embarrassed.
我很尴尬。
That butter was awful.
那个黄油太糟糕了。
And I said, I don't really think that Ira's going to go home and write in his little notebook, dinner at Hugh and David's, butter was terrible.
我说，我真的不认为艾拉会回家在他的小笔记本上写东西，在休和大卫家吃晚饭，黄油太糟糕了。
Note to listeners-- if you eat at Hugh and David's, avoid the butter.
听众请注意——如果您在休和大卫餐厅吃饭，请避免使用黄油。
At 31 Rue du Bac, we climb a wooden spiral staircase to a store that's been in operation since 1831, Deyrolle, which David calls the Noah's ark of taxidermy.
在巴克街 31 号，我们爬上木制螺旋楼梯，来到一家自 1831 年开始营业的 Deyrolle 商店，大卫将其称为动物标本剥制术的诺亚方舟。
There's a kangaroo.
有一只袋鼠。
There's a moose.
有一只驼鹿。
There's two wild boars.
有两只野猪。
There's about five different varieties of monkeys, a hyena, a pair of zebras, a polar bear, and a beautiful oak case containing different reptiles-- snakes and lizards.
里面有大约五种不同的猴子、一只鬣狗、一对斑马、一只北极熊，还有一个漂亮的橡木箱，里面装着不同的爬行动物——蛇和蜥蜴。
And there's an ostrich.
还有一只鸵鸟。
And that ostrich is-- what-- nine feet tall.
那只鸵鸟——什么——九英尺高。
It's really magnificent.
真是太壮观了。
We walk through room after room filled with pigs and lions, cats and dogs.
我们走过一个又一个充满猪、狮子、猫和狗的房间。
The dogs are especially real looking.
狗看起来特别真实。
Some of them, according to the woman who runs the place, were stuffed by their owners, but they never had the heart to pick them up.
据经营该店的女士说，其中一些是被主人塞进去的，但他们从来不忍心把它们捡起来。
The price to buy an ostrich or a lion or gorilla is nearly $10,000.
购买一只鸵鸟、狮子或大猩猩的价格接近 10,000 美元。
To rent them for two days is 420 bucks, American.
租两天是 420 美元，美国人。
Most of the business is rental.
大部分业务是租赁。
David buys a magpie, black and powerful and sleek-looking, and we had down to the street.
大卫买了一只喜鹊，黑色的，有力的，外表光滑，我们就到了街上。
So did you have things like this when you were a kid?
那么你小时候有过这样的事情吗？
My mother had a great aunt who was the only person in our family who really had any money.
我母亲有一个姨婆，她是我们家里唯一真正有钱的人。
And she was married to a man who was a big game hunter.
她嫁给了一位大型猎手。
And she would come to our house to visit when we were young.
当我们年轻的时候，她会来我们家拜访。
But I only went to her house once.
但我只去过她家一次。
And it was right before she died.
那是在她去世之前。
And she had a trophy room.
她有一个奖杯室。
And there were all kinds of animals in there, extinct animals.
里面有各种各样的动物，已经灭绝的动物。
There were snow leopards in there.
那里有雪豹。
There were white tigers in there.
里面有白老虎。
And you would walk into this perfect room, and there were thousands of eyes staring at you.
当你走进这个完美的房间时，就会有成千上万双眼睛盯着你。
And I just thought, this is what I want.
我只是想，这就是我想要的。
And that's the thing that I loved.
这就是我喜欢的事情。
And that's the feeling you get when you go into Deyolle, that all of these creatures that are stuffed and poised to pounce are all staring at you.
当你进入 Deyolle 时，你就会有这种感觉，所有这些填充物和准备猛扑的生物都在盯着你看。
It's the same feeling you get from being in front of an audience.
这与你在观众面前得到的感觉是一样的。
It's the same feeling you get in front of an audience?
这和你在观众面前的感觉是一样的吗？
Yeah, that people are looking at you.
是的，人们正在看着你。
But these are creatures that are looking at you.
但这些生物正在看着你。
Wow.
哇。
David Sedaris You know that feeling, that feeling when somebody is watching you.
David Sedaris 你知道那种感觉，当有人看着你时的感觉。
David, of course, thinks about that feeling a lot, especially here in France, where he wonders what Parisians think as they watch him speaking so badly.
当然，大卫经常思考这种感觉，尤其是在法国，他想知道巴黎人看到他说话如此糟糕时会作何感想。
But it's not entirely so hard, that daily stage fright, worrying about how to say every little thing, anxious and straining to understand all the words around him.
但这并不完全是那么难，每天都怯场，担心如何说每一件小事，焦虑和紧张地理解他周围的所有单词。
It's that thinking that makes me feel alive and that makes me notice everything around me.
正是这种想法让我感到自己还活着，让我注意到周围的一切。
When I become complacent, like I was in the United States, you just get used to things, so you don't think about them.
当我变得自满时，就像我在美国一样，你就会习惯一些事情，所以你不会去想它们。
You think, I'll get a cab.
你想，我会叫一辆出租车。
I'll go to the airport.
我去机场。
I'll have a patty melt.
我要一块融化的肉饼。
And you don't think about it.
而你不去想它。
Whereas now, with me, the anxiety starts early on.
而现在，对我来说，焦虑很早就开始了。
And I'm always afraid that someone's going to throw me a curveball and ask me a question, like, what sign are you?
我总是担心有人会向我扔一个曲线球并问我一个问题，比如，你是什么星座？
They'll just ask me a question like that out of nowhere, and I'll appear foolish.
他们会突然问我这样的问题，我会显得很愚蠢。
So it keeps me on edge.
所以这让我感到紧张。
But really, that edginess has always made me feel alive.
但实际上，这种急躁总是让我感觉自己还活着。
Someday, David says, he'll be more comfortable in French.
大卫说，有一天，他会更习惯法语。
His accent will improve and that daily anxiety will be removed from his life.
他的口音将会改善，日常的焦虑也会从他的生活中消失。
But when it is removed from me, then I probably won't be interested in living here anymore.
但当它从我身边移走时，我可能就不再有兴趣住在这里了。
I'll probably leave.
我可能会离开。
Because it'll be just like living back home.
因为这就像回到家里一样。
Plus the more you learn, the more disappointed you wind up being.
而且，你了解得越多，你就越失望。
It's easy to like somebody when you don't know what they're saying.
当你不知道某人在说什么时，很容易喜欢他。
That's interesting.
那很有意思。
I hadn't thought about that, that not understanding somebody makes them seem more interesting than they really are.
我没有想过，不理解某人会让他们看起来比实际情况更有趣。
I just assume that everyone talked about books and movies all the time.
我只是假设每个人都一直在谈论书籍和电影。
That's all they talked about, as far as I was concerned.
就我而言，这就是他们谈论的一切。
And then I learned a little bit more and I realized that they're no different than the people anywhere else, that they talk about the same banal things that we all talk about everywhere.
然后我学到了更多一点，我意识到他们和其他地方的人没有什么不同，他们谈论的都是我们在任何地方都谈论的同样平庸的事情。
At one point, at the cafe David goes to all the time, we sit and watch a waiter that David likes to watch, though he barely dares to say a word to him.
有一次，在大卫常去的咖啡馆里，我们坐下来看着一位大卫喜欢看的服务员，尽管他几乎不敢对他说一句话。
The waiter's in his mid-40's with a kind, baggy face.
服务员四十多岁，面容宽厚，和蔼可亲。
Picture the actor who played the scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz, Ray Bolger.
想象一下在《绿野仙踪》中扮演稻草人的演员雷·博尔格。
And this waiter's kind of a cut-up.
这个服务员有点不靠谱。
He hangs out with the regulars, making them laugh at this and that.
他和常客们一起出去玩，让他们笑这笑那。
That's what makes him fun to watch.
这就是让他看起来很有趣的原因。
You wonder, though, where that guy lives, or how much money he makes, or if he's married.
不过，你想知道那个人住在哪里，或者他赚多少钱，或者他是否已婚。
You know, you don't wonder about everybody.
你知道，你不会对每个人感到好奇。
But I've always wondered about that guy.
但我一直很好奇那个人。
Do you think he makes his bed?
你认为他会铺床吗？
For now, things are good for David in Paris.
目前，大卫在巴黎一切顺利。
He still feels curious about everything, about figuring out what it all means.
他仍然对一切感到好奇，想弄清楚这一切意味着什么。
And that makes everything so interesting all the time.
这让一切都变得如此有趣。
The mystery has not ebbed from everyday life.
这个谜团并没有从日常生活中消失。
Ray Bolger takes a sip of wine.
雷·博尔格抿了一口酒。
I always like it, too, when people drink on the job.
我也总是喜欢人们在工作时喝酒。
He's behind a bar, he's drinking wine, he's smoking a cigarette, and he's picking his nose, which are three good reasons to live in France, I think.
他在酒吧后面，他在喝酒，他在抽烟，他在抠鼻子，我认为这是生活在法国的三个很好的理由。
David Sedaris.
大卫·塞达里斯。
His book about Paris is called "Me Talk Pretty One Day." His latest book is "Calypso."
他关于巴黎的书名叫《有一天我说得漂亮》。他的最新著作是《Calypso》。
[MUSIC - LLOYD COLE, "SI TU DOIS PARTIR"]
[音乐 - 劳埃德·科尔，“SI TU DOIS PARTIR”]
Coming up, a public radio host who does not speak French mangles more foreign words in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
接下来，当我们的节目继续时，一位不会说法语的公共广播电台主持人会在一分钟内从芝加哥公共广播电台播放更多外来词。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
It's This American Life, the radio program that dares to ask the question--
敢于提出这个问题的是《This American Life》广播节目——
(SUBJECT) CHOIR: (SINGING) Parlez-vous francais?
（主题）合唱团：（唱歌）Parlez-vous francais？
No, after you, madame.
不，在你之后，女士。
If I can lay my cards on the table at this point in the program, I have never understood why anybody cares so much about France.
如果我能在节目的这个阶段摊开我的牌，我永远不明白为什么有人如此关心法国。
I mean, it's fine.
我的意思是，没关系。
It's lovely.
很可爱。
But there is just this thing that some Americans have for Paris.
但一些美国人对巴黎有这样的想法。
Though, as they are the first to admit, it can be kind of ridiculous.
不过，正如他们首先承认的那样，这可能有点荒谬。
Well, when people ask me where I live, I sometimes say Paris.
嗯，当人们问我住在哪里时，我有时会说巴黎。
And they say, well, you live in Paris?
他们说，好吧，你住在巴黎吗？
But that's my dream.
但这是我的梦想。
Kristin Hohenadel has lived in Paris for five years.
克里斯汀·霍赫纳德尔 (Kristin Hohenadel) 在巴黎生活了五年。
Why do you live in Paris?
你为什么住在巴黎？
And I say, well, I just sort of wanted to.
我说，好吧，我只是有点想这么做。
All the reasons that you would give sound really embarrassing, cliche, and ridiculous at this point.
在这一点上，你给出的所有理由听起来都非常尴尬、陈词滥调和荒谬。
Paris is a stale dream.
巴黎是一个陈腐的梦。
And it's kind of like falling in love with the most obviously cute boy in the class, or a movie star.
这有点像爱上班上最可爱的男孩，或者电影明星。
It's like being a groupie.
这就像成为一个追星族。
And then you try to convince the other 25 women who he slept with last week, well, I really love him, and I think he loves me too.
然后你试图说服上周与他睡过的其他 25 个女人，好吧，我真的很爱他，而且我想他也爱我。
There are some people who come here and they sort of get off on that feeling of being-- they think they're unusual because they put themselves in this position.
有些人来到这里，他们有点喜欢这种存在感——他们认为自己很不寻常，因为他们把自己放在了这个位置上。
And to me, that's really kind of awful and embarrassing.
对我来说，这确实有点可怕和尴尬。
Yeah.
是的。
They think it makes them special to live here, A, as if it's original.
他们认为住在这里让他们很特别，A，就好像这里是原创的一样。
And B, part of the horrifying thing about moving here is it's a sort of disappointing experience to realize that your dream is so banal.
B，搬到这里的可怕之处在于，意识到你的梦想是如此平庸，这是一种令人失望的经历。
This is a dream I had my whole life.
这是我一生的梦想。
And it seems ridiculous to me now that it meant so much to me.
现在我觉得这很荒谬，因为它对我来说意义重大。
It was so important.
这太重要了。
The thing about loving a city, Kristin says, is that a city doesn't really love you back.
克里斯汀说，爱一座城市的问题在于，一座城市并不真正爱你。
Whenever I asked Americans who love France what it was about France that just got to them so much-- when did it begin for them, their feeling about France-- they all talked about scraps of French culture that made it to them when they were very young-- the Madeline books, The Red Balloon, French films, Montessori French class in grade school.
每当我问热爱法国的美国人，法国的什么让他们如此着迷——他们从什么时候开始，他们对法国的感觉——他们都谈到了他们很小的时候就接触到的法国文化的碎片——玛德琳的书、红气球、法国电影、小学蒙台梭利法语课。
I think there is still a part of America where the idea of Paris-- Paris, not the space program, or the internet, or moving to New York City-- Paris represents reaching a world outside oneself.
我认为在美国仍有一部分人认为巴黎——巴黎，不是太空计划、互联网，或者搬到纽约——巴黎代表着到达一个自我之外的世界。
Richard Klein first started coming here as a teenager from a small town in Pennsylvania and has essentially constructed an entire life around the feeling that he got in Paris.
理查德·克莱因 (Richard Klein) 第一次从宾夕法尼亚州的一个小镇来到这里，是在十几岁的时候，基本上，他的整个生活都是围绕着他在巴黎的感觉构建的。
He went on to become a scholar and director of the Romance Studies department at Cornell University and author of several books, Eat Fat and Cigarettes Are Sublime, which are deeply suffused with a sensibility that is partly just un-American or, anyway, semi-Parisian, a sensibility that is all about the small pleasures of everyday life.
他后来成为康奈尔大学浪漫研究系的学者和主任，并出版了几本书《吃胖》和《香烟是崇高的》，这些书深深地充满了一种非美国式的，或者无论如何，半巴黎式的情感，一种关于日常生活中的小乐趣的情感。
You know, the French have a much more uncomplicated and much less guilty relationship to their body, beginning with eating, not only the way they eat, the pleasure that they take in eating.
你知道，法国人与自己的身体有一种更简单、更少负罪感的关系，从吃开始，不仅是他们吃的方式，还有他们在吃中获得的乐趣。
The American notion that food is medicine, for example, is totally repulsive to the French.
例如，美国人认为食物就是药物，这对法国人来说是完全令人反感的。
And yet increasingly, in America, that's all you hear.
然而，在美国，你听到的就越来越多了。
People eat only as a function of what they think is good for them.
人们只是根据他们认为对自己有益的方式来吃东西。
And nobody in France would eat strictly as a function of what's good for them.
在法国，没有人会严格按照对自己有益的方式来饮食。
I'll tell you, I think really the heart of it, for me, when I came here in 1958 for the first time, was Les Halles.
我告诉你，我认为对我来说，1958 年第一次来到这里时，真正的核心是 Les Halles。
Les Halles was the central marketplace right in the heart of Paris, not far from where we are.
Les Halles 是巴黎市中心的中央市场，距离我们所在的地方不远。
And I remember I used to go there not every night but frequently.
我记得我以前不是每晚都去那里，而是经常去。
And then, at around 2:00 in the morning, you would go out in the streets in Les Halles, which was the central marketplace.
然后，凌晨 2:00 左右，您会走到 Les Halles 的街道上，那里是中心市场。
And they used to bring all the food every night.
他们每晚都会带来所有的食物。
Trucks would bring the produce and food from all over France to the center of Paris, to the heart of Paris, and display it in the stalls all around the streets.
卡车会把法国各地的农产品和食品运到巴黎市中心，到巴黎市中心，并在街道各处的摊位上展示。
Butchers were there with their blood-splattered coats.
屠夫在那里，他们的外套上沾满了血。
And people made gorgeous piles of artichokes and carrots and cabbages.
人们制作了一堆堆华丽的洋蓟、胡萝卜和卷心菜。
And it was 2:00 in the morning and it was like life was just beginning at that hour.
那是凌晨 2:00，生命似乎在那个时刻才刚刚开始。
And people were there sort of buying and selling.
人们在那里进行买卖。
And then right next to Les Halles was La Rue Saint-Denis.
紧邻 Les Halles 的是 La Rue Saint-Denis。
And La Rue Saint-Denis was the center of prostitution in Paris.
圣但尼街是巴黎的卖淫中心。
And the people who worked there would work until 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning, and then they would visit the prostitutes who were there all night.
在那里工作的人会工作到凌晨4:00或5:00，然后他们会去拜访在那里过夜的妓女。
But this world of-- I don't know-- this incredible life, and food, and sex, and beauty in the middle of one of the most beautiful parts and oldest parts of the past-- it used to be until the 19th century that the biggest cemetery was right there in Paris.
但这个世界——我不知道——令人难以置信的生活、食物、性和美丽，位于过去最美丽和最古老的部分之一——直到19世纪，巴黎最大的墓地就在那里。
If you walk around Paris with Richard, he's constantly pointing out spots that had special meaning to Louis XIV.
如果你和理查德一起在巴黎散步，他会不断指出对路易十四有特殊意义的景点。
Or there's a restaurant that happened to be one of the first restaurants ever built in France, just after they began the idea of restaurants, or the shops where the notion of putting big, huge windows on the front of stores probably began so people could window shop.
或者有一家餐馆恰好是法国最早建造的餐馆之一，就在他们开始有了餐馆的想法之后，或者是在商店前面安装巨大的窗户的想法可能开始出现的商店，这样人们就可以橱窗购物。
The fact is, a lot of what is so pleasing about being in Paris is simple.
事实上，在巴黎的许多令人愉快的事情都很简单。
It's a really interesting, pleasing place just to walk around.
这是一个非常有趣、令人愉快的地方，只是四处走走。
When Kristin Hohenadel tried last year to live back in the States again, she found she missed living in Paris.
去年，当克里斯汀·霍赫纳德尔试图再次回到美国生活时，她发现自己很怀念巴黎的生活。
She missed all that.
她错过了这一切。
It'd be kind of hard to get ordinary things done in France.
在法国，要完成普通的事情有点困难。
You're always kind of an outsider here, even after years in the country.
即使在这个国家呆了很多年，你在这里总是有点局外人的感觉。
But she just feels better here.
但她在这里感觉好多了。
You know, you walk down the street in Los Angeles-- and it's a terrible example, because it's Los Angeles-- but you feel kind of dwarfed.
你知道，你走在洛杉矶的街道上——这是一个可怕的例子，因为这是洛杉矶——但你会觉得自己有点相形见绌。
And here, I just think, yes, this is exactly it.
在这里，我只是想，是的，就是这样。
This is how life should be-- the pace, the scale, the way it looks.
这就是生活应该有的样子——节奏、规模、它的样子。
[MUSIC - BLOSSOM DEARIE, "COMMENT ALLEZ-VOUS?"]
[音乐 - BLOSSOM DEARIE，“评论 ALLEZ-VOUS？”]
Act Three: Notes From A Native Daughter Ira Glass Act three, "Notes of a Native Daughter." Janet McDonald had already learned the language.
第三幕：土生女的笔记 艾拉·格拉斯 第三幕，“土生女的笔记”。珍妮特·麦克唐纳已经学会了这种语言。
She'd already learned the culture, had French friends and a French apartment, when something happened that made her realize how much she hadn't figured out.
她已经了解了法国文化，有了法国朋友和一套法国公寓，但发生的一件事让她意识到自己还有多少不明白的地方。
I was going to the movies with a friend of mine from Yale who is black also.
我和耶鲁大学的一位黑人朋友一起去看电影。
And there was a long line.
还有一条很长的线。
And we were like, let's jump the line.
我们就想，让我们插队吧。
These white people, they're going to be scared of us.
这些白人，他们会害怕我们。
We'll just go and jump the line.
我们就去插队吧。
We'll get to the front of the line.
我们将到达队列的最前面。
So of course, we walked up to the front of the line, like, yeah, you want to try me?
所以，当然，我们走到队伍的前面，就像，是的，你想试试我吗？
I'm black.
我是黑人。
That usually works in New York.
这通常在纽约有效。
These people were ready to rip our hair out.
这些人准备扯掉我们的头发。
And they were white.
他们是白人。
I couldn't believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
And they were like, in French, what are you doing?
他们用法语问，你在做什么？
The line starts back there!
队伍从后面开始！
You can't just walk to the front of the line!
你不能只是走到队伍的前面！
They were ready to kick our butts.
他们已经准备好踢我们的屁股了。
I was shocked.
我很震惊。
I'm like, these are white people and they're not scared of us?
我想，这些都是白人，他们不怕我们吗？
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
That's when I realized I wasn't in Kansas anymore.
就在那时我意识到我已经不在堪萨斯了。
And I liked it.
我喜欢它。
Of course, it was kind of humiliating, because we're supposed to be the intimidating, scary ones.
当然，这有点丢脸，因为我们应该是令人生畏、可怕的人。
And then all these like French bitches in high heels are threatening us, and they were in our faces.
然后所有这些就像穿着高跟鞋的法国母狗一样威胁着我们，而且她们就在我们面前。
[LAUGHS] And it made me realize that whole black-white game just doesn't work outside of the United States.
[笑]这让我意识到整个黑白游戏在美国之外是行不通的。
Because white people aren't afraid of you here.
因为这里白人不怕你。
And at the same time, they don't hate you.
同时，他们也不恨你。
Because that sort of goes together.
因为这是相辅相成的。
So I'll take it.
所以我会接受它。
I'll wait on line.
我会在线等。
Now I don't dare jump lines.
现在不敢跳线了。
[LAUGHS] So that opened my eyes.
[笑]所以这让我大开眼界。
Janet and I are sitting in the Cafe Flore, one of those famous and corniest and most pretentious settings in which to meet, because it and the Deux Magots cafe next door were home to Sartre, and Camus, and Simone de Beauvoir, and, when he first arrived in Paris in 1946, Richard Wright, who was well known by them as the author of Black Boy and Native Son.
珍妮特和我坐在花神咖啡馆里，这里是最有名、最老套、最自命不凡的见面地点之一，因为它和隔壁的双叟咖啡馆是萨特、加缪、西蒙娜·德·波伏娃的家，还有理查德·赖特（当他 1946 年第一次抵达巴黎时），他以《黑男孩》和《土生子》的作者而闻名。
Now it's sort of a gathering place for tourists, and wannabes, and nostalgic fake French people such as myself.
现在，它成了游客、追随者以及像我这样怀旧的假法国人的聚集地。
It's classic old cafe on a corner with aging fixtures and plate glass windows onto the street.
这是一家位于街角的经典老咖啡馆，陈旧的固定装置和面向街道的平板玻璃窗。
Lovely, but not ornate.
可爱，但不华丽。
By the time Richard Wright arrived here, Josephine Baker had come, seen, and conquered.
当理查德·赖特 (Richard Wright) 到达这里时，约瑟芬·贝克 (Josephine Baker) 已经来到这里、看到并征服了这里。
Black GIs had come and conquered.
黑人大兵来了并征服了。
Jazz had simply conquered.
爵士乐简直征服了。
Wright wrote in a letter, "There's such an absence of race hatred.
赖特在一封信中写道：“根本不存在种族仇恨。
It seems a little unreal." I wanted to talk to Janet, because I wanted to find out if it was still that way for blacks in Paris.
似乎有点不真实。”我想和珍妮特谈谈，因为我想知道巴黎的黑人是否仍然如此。
It didn't seem possible, really.
这似乎不可能，真的。
In the half-century since those days, there's been an influx of black Africans to France.
自那时起的半个世纪里，大量非洲黑人涌入法国。
And they are not beloved.
他们并不被爱。
National Front party, with the slogan "France is for the French," wins 15% of the vote in national elections.
打着“法国是法国人的”口号的国民阵线党在全国选举中赢得了15%的选票。
Could it be possible that African-Americans still get a warm reception here?
难道非裔美国人在这里仍然受到热情接待吗？
Janet said yes.
珍妮特说是的。
I'm not sure what it is.
我不确定它是什么。
All I know is that it feels very different to be around French white people than American white people.
我所知道的是，与法国白人相处的感觉与与美国白人相处的感觉非常不同。
Different how?
怎么不同？
Janet Mcdonald I feel much more comfortable.
珍妮特·麦克唐纳 我感觉舒服多了。
I feel that I'm not a black object.
我觉得我不是一个黑色物体。
Richard Wright, after arriving here in the mid-1940s, said that he felt that, all of his life, he'd been carrying a corpse with him.
理查德·赖特 (Richard Wright) 在 20 世纪 40 年代中期来到这里后说，他觉得自己一生都带着一具尸体。
And when he came to Paris, he felt it slip off his back.
当他来到巴黎时，他感觉这件事从他的背上溜走了。
Did you have that kind of feeling?
你有这样的感觉吗？
Yeah.
是的。
I really have to say that I have felt that way ever since I got here.
我真的不得不说，自从我来到这里以来，我就有这种感觉。
And a lot of my friends say, why are you living there?
我的很多朋友都说，你为什么住在那里？
In fact, a friend of mine I went to law school with, he said, what is it about speaking French that makes white people not racist?
事实上，和我一起上法学院的一个朋友说，说法语是什么让白人不再是种族主义者呢？
He was very skeptical.
他很怀疑。
But really, it goes beyond that.
但实际上，它还不止于此。
And it's not just that we feel free of the burden of race.
这不仅仅是因为我们摆脱了种族的负担。
Because we're still black.
因为我们还是黑人。
I still experience myself as black.
我仍然觉得自己是黑人。
It's just that that's not the center of my identity.
只是那不是我身份的中心。
It's not the first thing people relate to when I meet them here.
当我在这里见到人们时，这并不是他们首先想到的事情。
Janet first came to Paris in 1975 and moved here in '95.
Janet 于 1975 年第一次来到巴黎，并于 95 年搬到这里。
She's a lawyer in the French office of a big American company.
她是一家美国大公司法国办事处的律师。
She grew up in the public housing projects in Brooklyn, worked her way into Vassar College and onto graduate school and law school.
她在布鲁克林的公共住房项目中长大，通过努力考入瓦萨学院、研究生院和法学院。
And like a lot of people who make the jump from very poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods into the college-educated upper middle class, she felt like she didn't really fit in anywhere, not with family and friends in the projects who were shooting heroin, barely surviving, not with the black students she met in college.
和许多从非常贫穷、犯罪猖獗的社区一跃成为受过大学教育的中上阶层的人一样，她觉得自己在任何地方都格格不入，不适合参与注射海洛因、勉强生存的项目的家人和朋友，不适合她在大学遇到的黑人学生。
I thought they were Bourgeois southern belles.
我以为她们是资产阶级南方美女。
I didn't want to be anything like them.
我不想成为像他们一样的人。
And they didn't want to be like me either.
他们也不想像我一样。
They thought I was trash.
他们认为我是垃圾。
I was project trash.
我是项目垃圾。
I thought they put the B in bougie.
我以为他们把 B 放在探条上。
And so I grappled a lot with the racial identity.
所以我对种族身份进行了很多思考。
What will my posture be?
我的姿势会是什么？
I'm from the projects, but people say I talk like a white girl.
我来自项目部，但人们说我说话像个白人女孩。
And then the white girls are like, oh, you're so project.
然后白人女孩就会说，哦，你太有计划了。
And then when I got here, none of it mattered.
And then when I got here, none of it mattered.
Because if I spoke three words of French that made sense, people liked me and they celebrated me.
因为如果我说三个有意义的法语单词，人们就会喜欢我并且庆祝我。
So I didn't have to worry about talking like a white girl, or a project girl, or anything.
所以我不必担心说话像个白人女孩，或者项目女孩，或者其他什么。
It was an incredible relief.
It was an incredible relief.
The central conflict of her life suddenly vanished.
她生活中的中心冲突突然消失了。
In Paris, all the distinctions about what kind of black person she should be, they were all moot.
在巴黎，关于她应该成为什么样的黑人的所有区别都毫无意义。
In fact, the most distinguishing fact about Janet was not that she was black.
事实上，珍妮特最显着的事实并不是她是黑人。
It was that she was an American, which surprised her.
令她惊讶的是，她是美国人。
I associated the word American with white guys with flags on their lawns who didn't particularly like me.
我把“美国人”这个词与草坪上插着旗帜的白人联系在一起，但他们并不特别喜欢我。
And people would call me American.
人们会称我为美国人。
And I'd say, I'm not American.
我想说，我不是美国人。
I'm black.
我是黑人。
And these were black French people.
And these were black French people.
And they were like, you are so American.
他们说，你真是美国人。
And I remember these French West Indian friends of mine-- this one in particular from Martinique-- saying, you even walk like an American.
我记得我的这些法国西印度群岛朋友——尤其是来自马提尼克岛的朋友——说，你甚至走路都像美国人。
I'm like, what do you mean?
我想，你什么意思？
What does an American walk like?
美国人走路是什么样的？
And she said, they kick their legs when they walk.
她说，他们走路时会踢腿。
They kick their legs forward.
他们向前踢腿。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Because I was in Brooklyn just a few weeks ago.
Because I was in Brooklyn just a few weeks ago.
And this woman who'd never been to Europe was saying, so what's it like in France?
这位从未去过欧洲的女士说，法国怎么样？
What are the people like?
What are the people like?
Are they prejudiced?
他们有偏见吗？
I said, no, they like us.
我说，不，他们喜欢我们。
It's incredible-- a country full of white people and they like us.
这太不可思议了——一个充满白人的国家，他们喜欢我们。
But it's a difficult thing, because they like us, but they don't like other people who look like us.
但这是一件困难的事情，因为他们喜欢我们，但他们不喜欢其他看起来像我们的人。
And that's sort of the French paradox.
And that's sort of the French paradox.
Paris, of course, has its own housing projects in the suburbs that surround the city.
当然，巴黎在城市周边的郊区也有自己的住房项目。
Now, with generations of Africans who were born on French soil, they face job discrimination, housing discrimination.
现在，一代又一代出生在法国土地上的非洲人面临着就业歧视和住房歧视。
And they're not well received.
And they're not well received.
They're not welcomed.
他们不受欢迎。
And they are French.
他们是法国人。
And so in a way, for African-Americans, we're in a very bizarre position.
因此，在某种程度上，对于非裔美国人来说，我们处于一个非常奇怪的境地。
It's almost like being an honorary white in apartheid South Africa.
这几乎就像是在种族隔离的南非成为一名荣誉白人。
And I noticed that, as my French got better and better, sometimes I wasn't as well received as I would be if I played up my American accent.
我注意到，随着我的法语越来越好，有时我并没有像我强调我的美国口音那样受到欢迎。
If I walked into a shop, and people would think I was just basically-- what I say-- just another [BLEEP], just like one of their own, like from Martinique or Guadalupe, it wouldn't be the same reception if I came on with a very heavy American accent or even spoke English.
如果我走进一家商店，人们会认为我基本上——我所说的——只是另一个[BLEEP]，就像他们自己的人一样，就像来自马提尼克岛或瓜达卢佩岛的人一样，如果我带着很重的美国口音甚至说英语，那就不会是同样的接待。
Why?
为什么？
How would they treat you if they thought you were an African black?
如果他们认为你是非洲黑人，他们会如何对待你？
A little bit of a chill in the air, like, yes, may I help you?
空气中有一点寒意，就像，是的，我可以帮你吗？
Not so much, oh, vous etes Americaine!
Not so much, oh, vous etes Americaine!
Oh, I love New York!
哦，我爱纽约！
I love to speak English!
我喜欢说英语！
So it's very bizarre.
所以这很奇怪。
It's a hard thing to reconcile.
It's a hard thing to reconcile.
Because good feeling is good feeling.
Because good feeling is good feeling.
And when someone receives you and makes you feel good, it's a positive experience.
当有人接待你并让你感觉良好时，这是一种积极的体验。
When you're in a shop, and you can feel that there's a chill in the air, and that they think of you as an African, will you actually play up your American accent?
当你在一家商店里，你能感觉到空气中有一丝寒意，他们认为你是非洲人，你真的会强调你的美国口音吗？
Well, what happened was I started experiencing that.
嗯，发生的事情是我开始经历这一点。
And so I actually adjusted my speech so that at least I would get the benefit of-- I mean, I'm here in this country.
所以我实际上调整了我的演讲，这样至少我会受益——我的意思是，我在这个国家。
I want to get the benefit of being an African-American.
我想获得作为非裔美国人的好处。
So instead of walking in-- oui, madame, [SPEAKING FRENCH], I'd say, oui, [SPEAKING FRENCH].
因此，我不会走进--oui，女士，[说法语]，我会说，oui，[说法语]。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
And it works?
它有效吗？
Janet Mcdonald Yeah, and it works.
Janet Mcdonald Yeah, and it works.
A friend of Janet's suggested to her that maybe Parisians prefer black people from America because only a certain class of black Americans usually comes to France-- educated, cultured, interested in France.
珍妮特的一位朋友向她建议，也许巴黎人更喜欢来自美国的黑人，因为只有特定阶层的美国黑人通常会来到法国——受过教育、有文化、对法国感兴趣。
When Janet asked the writer Cornel West about this at a speech he gave this summer in Paris, that was his argument.
当珍妮特在作家康奈尔·韦斯特今年夏天在巴黎发表的一次演讲中向他询问此事时，他的论点就是如此。
Basically, he suggested it was a class thing.
Basically, he suggested it was a class thing.
And he said, well, look at you.
And he said, well, look at you.
You're professional.
你很专业。
You're articulate.
你很善于表达。
Maybe if you brought 15 of your cousins, it would be a whole different thing.
也许如果你带上 15 个表兄弟姐妹，情况就会完全不同。
So basically he was saying, if I brought all my homegirls from the hood who didn't go to Vassar, and who weren't lawyers, and who didn't speak French, the reception might be a little chillier, even though they also are black American.
所以基本上他是在说，如果我把所有没有去瓦萨学院、不是律师、不会说法语的家庭女孩都带来的话，接待可能会有点冷淡，尽管她们也是美国黑人。
But I think, if that's true, that is not about racism.
但我认为，如果这是真的，那就与种族主义无关。
Then that's about class.
然后就是关于课堂的事情了。
Before I met Janet, I read the book that she wrote about what it was like for her growing up.
在认识珍妮特之前，我读过她写的一本关于她成长经历的书。
It's called Project Girl.
It's called Project Girl.
And what's remarkable about it is how frank she is about all of the compulsive things that she found herself doing during the years that she was regularly traveling between the projects and the world of the aspiring upper middle class.
值得注意的是，在她经常往返于项目和有抱负的上层中产阶级世界之间的那些年里，她发现自己所做的所有强迫性的事情是多么坦率。
It was a struggle.
这是一场斗争。
In her first year at Vassar, for instance, she felt so out of place that she started taking the train down to New York City to score heroin, a thing she'd never even done when she lived in the projects, until she got kicked out of school for that.
例如，在瓦萨学院的第一年，她感到格格不入，以至于她开始坐火车去纽约市获取海洛因，这是她住在项目中时从未做过的事情，直到她因此被学校开除。
It was as if the further that she traveled into the world of college, the more the project side of her personality was compelled to express itself somehow.
就好像她在大学世界里走得越远，她性格中项目的一面就越被迫以某种方式表达出来。
She depicts herself as somebody who was depressed and embattled and sort of lost for years.
她把自己描绘成一个多年来一直沮丧、陷入困境、有点迷失的人。
And the most striking thing about meeting her, if you've read the book, is how completely happy she seems today.
如果你读过这本书，见到她时最引人注目的事情就是她今天看起来多么高兴。
She's one of the happiest-seeming people I've ever met, just relaxed, and funny, and at ease.
她是我见过的看起来最幸福的人之一，轻松、有趣、轻松。
And her feeling about France, the country with this transformation took place, it can be sort of shocking to actual French people.
而她对法国这个发生了这种转变的国家的感觉，对于真正的法国人来说可能有点令人震惊。
When we just won the Euro 2000, I came to work and I was telling the Moroccan secretary, we won!
当我们刚刚赢得 2000 年欧洲杯时，我上班时告诉摩洛哥秘书，我们赢了！
[SPEAKING FRENCH] And she just glares at me.
[SPEAKING FRENCH] And she just glares at me.
Because she was born here.
Because she was born here.
And she says, I'm not French.
And she says, I'm not French.
I'm Moroccan.
我是摩洛哥人。
It's just like black Americans.
It's just like black Americans.
I'm not American, I'm black.
I'm not American, I'm black.
And I was like, we won, we won!
And I was like, we won, we won!
And she was like, what are you talking about?
And she was like, what are you talking about?
You're not even French.
你甚至不是法国人。
What do you mean, we won?
What do you mean, we won?
I'm like, I'm French in my heart.
I'm like, I'm French in my heart.
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
And this black friend of mine was saying, you're the only person I know who could sing "The Marseillaise." That shows how extreme you are.
我的一位黑人朋友说，你是我认识的唯一一个会唱《马赛曲》的人。 That shows how extreme you are.
Do you know why?
你知道为什么吗？
It's because I say to them, I never had a country.
因为我对他们说，我从来没有一个国家。
I never had a country.
我从来没有一个国家。
I had a hood.
我有一个兜帽。
I had Brooklyn.
我有布鲁克林。
But I never felt like I had a country.
But I never felt like I had a country.
So now I have a country.
所以现在我有了一个国家。
It's a little one.
这是一个小家伙。
We always come in third or fourth place in the Olympics.
我们在奥运会上总是获得第三或第四名。
But it's France.
但这是法国。
Here's something else.
这是别的东西。
There are certain things about French culture, Janet says, that just make life here very pleasant.
珍妮特说，法国文化中有一些东西让这里的生活变得非常愉快。
For one thing, people don't ask you personal questions-- where you grew up, where you work, what's your family like, what's your story?
一方面，人们不会问你个人问题——你在哪里长大、你在哪里工作、你的家庭是什么样的、你的故事是什么？
You're not constantly explaining yourself.
You're not constantly explaining yourself.
She says she has one friend who she knew for five years before she knew this woman had a grown son.
她说她有一个朋友，她认识了五年才知道这个女人有一个成年的儿子。
Also, there isn't the same striving, the same ambition to be number one as in the States, especially compared with the corporate law job she used to have where everybody was expected to put in 60 and 70 and 80 hours a week.
此外，她也没有像在美国那样努力奋斗、雄心勃勃地成为第一，尤其是与她以前从事的公司法工作相比，每个人都被要求每周工作 60、70 和 80 个小时。
Here, that would be seen as very strange.
Here, that would be seen as very strange.
Work just is not that important to most people.
Work just is not that important to most people.
I'll get tears in my eyes.
I'll get tears in my eyes.
Sometimes I look around the subway, and I look at all these French people, and I'm like, thank you for letting me live here in your country.
有时我环顾地铁，看着所有这些法国人，我想，谢谢你们让我住在你们的国家。
We head outside.
我们走到外面。
Ira Glass But you feel like it's your country, but your identity here isn't that of a French person.
Ira Glass：但是你感觉这是你的国家，但你在这里的身份不是法国人。
It's that of an outsider.
It's that of an outsider.
I know.
我知道。
And I think that's what it is to be Project Girl.
我认为这就是“Project Girl”的意义。
I was always an outsider.
I was always an outsider.
And I feel most inside right now where I'm most outside.
现在我在最外面的地方感觉最里面。
Go figure.
去算算吧。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
That's what freedom is, though.
That's what freedom is, though.
It's not about nothing left to lose.
It's not about nothing left to lose.
It's about nothing left to be.
It's about nothing left to be.
You don't have to be anything.
你不必是什么。
I was just thinking about it this morning.
I was just thinking about it this morning.
It's like, I'm an outsider.
It's like, I'm an outsider.
I will always be a foreigner, no matter how good my French gets.
无论我的法语有多好，我永远都是外国人。
I will never really be French, no matter how much of a wannabe I am.
我永远不会真正成为法国人，无论我多么想成为法国人。
And yet I feel that I'm home.
And yet I feel that I'm home.
I'm just home.
我刚到家。
Around the corner from the Cafe Flore is where the author James Baldwin lived for a while.
弗洛尔咖啡馆 (Cafe Flore) 的拐角处是作家詹姆斯·鲍德温 (James Baldwin) 曾住过一段时间的地方。
Janet says she feels like she understands a little of how he must have felt, coming from Harlem, from a family that was always struggling, and then arriving here.
珍妮特说，她觉得自己有点理解他的感受，他来自哈莱姆区，来自一个一直在挣扎的家庭，然后来到这里。
Everything is so pretty and so much easier than home.
一切都是那么漂亮，比家里容易多了。
Here we are.
我们到了。
This is where James Baldwin lived, with that painter, 56 Rue Jacob.
这是詹姆斯·鲍德温 (James Baldwin) 和画家雅各布街 56 号居住的地方。
But see, he lived way up in the top, on the top floor.
但是你看，他住在顶层，顶楼。
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
One, two, three, four, fifth floor.
One, two, three, four, fifth floor.
It's obviously a walk-up.
It's obviously a walk-up.
The cheapest apartments are always on the top because you have to walk farther.
最便宜的公寓总是在最上面，因为你必须走更远的路。
And that's where he was.
那就是他所在的地方。
Wow.
哇。
He probably even mailed letters at that post office down there.
他可能甚至在下面的邮局寄过信。
He mailed letters back to Harlem.
He mailed letters back to Harlem.
Hey, and here we are.
嘿，我们到了。
Baldwin, of course, decided to settle in France permanently.
鲍德温当然决定永久定居法国。
And when Janet first moved Paris, she thought it would just be for a few years.
当珍妮特第一次搬到巴黎时，她以为只会呆几年。
And now, every time she goes home, she sees too much about the United States that she just does not want to deal with anymore.
现在，每次她回家，她都会看到太多关于美国的事情，而她只是不想再与之打交道。
And she's realizing she may never move back.
And she's realizing she may never move back.
Our program was produced today by Susan Burton and myself, avec Julie Snyder, Blue Chevigny, and Alex Blumberg.
今天我们的节目由苏珊·伯顿和我、朱莉·斯奈德、布鲁·切维尼和亚历克斯·布隆伯格制作。
Contributing editors for today's program, Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, Alix Spiegel, Nancy Updike, and consigliere Sarah Powell.
今天节目的特约编辑包括 Paul Tough、Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin、Alix Spiegel、Nancy Updike 和顾问 Sarah Powell。
Additional production on our rerun from Aviva DeKornfeld, Jessica Lussenhop, Katharine Raimondo, Stowe Nelson, and Matt Tierney.
我们重播的额外制作由 Aviva DeKornfeld、Jessica Lussenhop、Katharine Raimondo、Stowe Nelson 和 Matt Tierney 担任。
Today's program was first broadcast in the year 2000.
今天的节目是2000年首播的。
You can no longer smoke indoors all over Paris.
You can no longer smoke indoors all over Paris.
And I hate the fact that I have to say this.
And I hate the fact that I have to say this.
Janet McDonald, the writer of Project Girl, who is so wonderful in the third act of the show, and who I kept in touch with after the program, she died in 2007 at the age of 53.
《Project Girl》的编剧珍妮特·麦克唐纳 (Janet McDonald) 在该剧的第三幕中表现得非常出色，节目结束后我一直与她保持联系，她于 2007 年去世，享年 53 岁。
Her book is still available.
Her book is still available.
Eric Satie music was played for us on the accordion by Dean Olsher.
Dean Olsher 用手风琴为我们演奏了 Eric Satie 的音乐。
Jad Abumrad recorded him.
Jad Abumrad recorded him.
Other musical help today came from the amazing John Connors, Nikki Rinkus, and Kathie Berquist.
今天的其他音乐帮助来自令人惊叹的约翰·康纳斯 (John Connors)、尼基·林库斯 (Nikki Rinkus) 和凯西·贝奎斯特 (Kathie Berquist)。
Special thanks today to Steven Barclay, author of the book A Place in the World Called Paris, and to James Campbell, whose book Exiled in Paris, was a useful summary of all the facts surrounding Richard Wright and James Baldwin's years in Paris.
今天特别感谢史蒂文·巴克利（Steven Barclay），《世界上有一个地方叫巴黎》一书的作者，以及詹姆斯·坎贝尔（James Campbell），他的书《流亡巴黎》对理查德·赖特和詹姆斯·鲍德温在巴黎的岁月的所有事实进行了有益的总结。
Also, thanks to Sandrine Rastello and [?
Also, thanks to Sandrine Rastello and [?
Catherine ?] Johnstone.
凯瑟琳？]约翰斯通。
Our website is ThisAmericanLife.org, where you can hear our archive of nearly 700 episodes for absolutely free.
我们的网站是 ThisAmericanLife.org，在这里您可以完全免费收听我们收藏的近 700 集节目。
Or download our app.
或者下载我们的应用程序。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who reminds you, don't forget, please, learn from the experiences of others.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他提醒您，请不要忘记，向他人学习经验。
Dinner at Hugh and David's.
Dinner at Hugh and David's.
The butter was terrible.
黄油很糟糕。
That's right.
这是正确的。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of this American life.
下周我们将带来更多有关美国生活的故事。
[MUSIC - ANDY WILLIAMS, "AU REVOIR PARIS"]
[MUSIC - ANDY WILLIAMS, "AU REVOIR PARIS"]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。