160: Character Assassination - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #160 | May 19, 2000 160: Character Assassination Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 160 集 | 2000 年 5 月 19 日 160：人物暗杀 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass What's it mean to do politics in this country these days?
序言 Ira Glass 如今在这个国家从事政治意味着什么？
Consider the story of a man named Jack Robinson.
想想一个名叫杰克·罗宾逊的人的故事。
One day this March, he held a press conference to announce that he was going to start gathering signatures to get on the ballot to run for senate in Massachusetts against Teddy Kennedy.
今年三月的一天，他召开新闻发布会，宣布他将开始收集签名，参加与泰迪·肯尼迪竞选马萨诸塞州参议员的投票。
He had never run for political office before.
他以前从未竞选过政治职务。
And then literally within 24 hours of putting our name forward, we were hit with a withering attack, literally within the first day of even announcing the campaign.
然后，在我们提出名字后的 24 小时内，实际上是在宣布该活动的第一天，我们就遭到了毁灭性的攻击。
I was at Republican State Committee headquarters having interviews with the press.
我当时在共和党州委员会总部接受媒体采访。
And sitting down with one of the reporters, the reporter asked me after I said why I'm running, by the way, have you ever been arrested for drunk driving?
和一位记者坐下来，我说完为什么跑步后，记者问我，顺便问一下，你有没有因为酒后驾车被抓过？
And I said, yes.
我说，是的。
No one would know about that because we sealed the case file, since I had been found not guilty and I'd passed the Breathalyzer test.
没有人会知道这一点，因为我们密封了案件档案，因为我被判无罪，而且我已经通过了酒精测试。
I was very forthright and then gave the details.
我很直白，然后就详细说了。
But that was the beginning of it.
但这只是一切的开始。
And then it just didn't stop.
然后它就没有停止。
Then, have you ever had a restraining order ever taken against you and then this and then that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
那么，你是否曾经收到过针对你的限制令，然后这个，然后那个，等等，等等，等等，等等。
The plan was to announce the campaign and, perhaps this was political naivete on my part, maybe get a week or so of general publicity about what we stand for, who are we.
计划是宣布竞选活动，也许这对我来说是政治上的天真，也许需要一周左右的时间进行普遍宣传，了解我们的立场，我们是谁。
Little did I know that within a day of announcing the campaign, no one would care about any of that stuff, who I am or what I stand for, but what's in my past.
我几乎不知道，在宣布竞选活动的一天之内，没有人会关心任何这些事情，我是谁或我代表什么，但我的过去是什么。
And so Jack Robinson decided to take action.
因此杰克·罗宾逊决定采取行动。
He issued a long public statement that is simply one of the most remarkable documents of current political life in this country.
他发表了一份长篇公开声明，这简直是这个国家当前政治生活中最引人注目的文件之一。
He called it "The Robinson Report" and posted it on the Internet for anybody to read.
他将其称为“罗宾逊报告”，并将其发布到互联网上供任何人阅读。
It outlines, in matter of fact prose and a disturbing level of detail, everything he thinks he's ever done wrong: an unpaid speeding ticket from the 1980s, an illegal martial arts implement that a police officer found in his pocket when he was a graduate student, his failure to pass the bar exam three times, a plagiarism case against him, a restraining order that a woman put against him, a variety of business lawsuits.
它以事实上的散文和令人不安的细节概述了他认为自己做错的一切：一张 20 世纪 80 年代未付的超速罚单、一名警察在他研究生时在他口袋里发现的非法武术器械、他三次未能通过律师资格考试、针对他的抄袭案、一名妇女对他发出的限制令、各种商业诉讼。
"By making this information public early in the campaign," he wrote, "I hope to have offered my fellow citizens a full and fair description of my personal background in a manner which allows them to decide whether I am capable of representing them in a position of public trust, confidence, and honor."
他写道：“通过在竞选初期公开这些信息，我希望向我的同胞们提供关于我个人背景的完整而公正的描述，让他们能够决定我是否有能力代表他们获得公众的信任、信心和荣誉。”
I've been told I've been the first person in American political history to drop a dime on himself.
有人告诉我，我是美国政治史上第一个给自己捐一毛钱的人。
But I think the citizens will have to decide over the foreseeable future as to how much they want to know about people.
但我认为，在可预见的未来，公民必须决定他们想了解多少人。
I've done nothing wrong.
我没有做错任何事。
I've committed no crimes.
我没有犯罪。
I've got no record.
我没有任何记录。
At the end of the day, people don't care about my drunk driving arrest 15 years ago any more than they care about Chappaquiddick 30 years ago.
归根结底，人们不再关心我 15 年前醉酒驾驶被捕的事，就像他们不再关心 30 年前查帕奎迪克一样。
Jack Robinson mentioned Chappaquiddick and what he called "Ted Kennedy's foibles," four times in the hour that I spent with him, each time declaring they should not be part of any campaign.
杰克·罗宾逊在我与他相处的一小时内四次提到查帕奎迪克和他所说的“特德·肯尼迪的弱点”，每次都宣称他们不应该参与任何竞选活动。
Sort of nasty.
有点恶心。
But what exactly is a man to do?
但男人究竟应该做什么呢？
This is the state of politics in America.
这就是美国的政治现状。
And as we head into another season of presidential campaigning, Al Gore is already pounding on George Bush.
当我们进入又一个总统竞选季时，阿尔·戈尔已经开始攻击乔治·布什了。
And George Bush made clear in the primaries that went threatened, he'll get as nasty as he has to.
乔治·布什在受到威胁的初选中明确表示，他将变得尽可能令人讨厌。
The next few months of our political lives are going to be ugly, just ugly.
我们接下来几个月的政治生活将变得丑陋，非常丑陋。
So in preparation for all the mud, we asked today, what are we to think of all this?
因此，在为所有泥浆做准备时，我们今天问，我们对这一切有何看法？
What are we to make of what our culture has become?
我们该如何看待我们的文化？
From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life .
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Our program today, to shed light on the current situation, true stories of character assassination-- political and nonpolitical.
我们今天的节目旨在揭示当前局势以及人物暗杀的真实故事——政治的和非政治的。
Our program today in five acts.
我们今天的节目分为五幕。
Act One, "Those Who Ignore History are Condemned to Repeat It-- but Those Who Pay Attention to History are Also Condemned to Repeat It." Act Two, "Sonny Takes a Fall," in which David Foster Wallace reports on a turning point in the primary campaign of John McCain.
第一幕，“无视历史的人必遭重蹈覆辙，重视历史的人也必遭重蹈覆辙”。第二幕“桑尼摔倒”，大卫·福斯特·华莱士报道了约翰·麦凯恩初选的转折点。
John McCain's last moment as a serious contender-- the moment when his opponent started attacking and he had to decide how to handle it, and how he decided-- wrong.
约翰·麦凯恩作为一个真正的竞争者的最后时刻——当他的对手开始进攻而他必须决定如何应对以及他如何决定的那一刻——是错误的。
Act Three, "When Slime is Good." A former political consultant explains why it is that he tried to bait his opponent into attacking-- sometimes.
第三幕，“当史莱姆好时”。一位前政治顾问解释了为什么他有时会试图引诱对手发动攻击。
Act Four, "Who are you Going to Call?" A conversation with one of the people that you'll hire if you're attacked.
第四幕“你要给谁打电话？”与您在受到攻击时将雇用的人员之一进行对话。
Act Five, "When Attacks Really Count," a look at character assassination when it occurs in a far more devastating arena than politics, I'm talking about junior high school.
第五幕，“当攻击真正发挥作用时”，探讨在比政治更具破坏性的舞台上发生的人格暗杀，我说的是初中。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Those Who Ignore History are Condemned to Repeat It." Ask most historians about dirty political attacks and they will tell you that they go back to the very beginning of our nation, Thomas Jefferson.
第一幕，“无视历史的人注定要重蹈覆辙”。向大多数历史学家询问肮脏的政治攻击，他们会告诉你，这些攻击可以追溯到我们国家的诞生之初，托马斯·杰斐逊。
Thomas Jefferson funded an opposition newspaper to trash President George Washington while Jefferson was actually part of Washington's administration.
托马斯·杰斐逊资助了一家反对派报纸来诋毁乔治·华盛顿总统，而杰斐逊实际上是华盛顿政府的一部分。
For most of the next 200 years, politicians routinely accused each other of being philanderers, of having illegitimate children, of being atheists.
在接下来的 200 年的大部分时间里，政客们经常互相指责对方花心、有私生子、无神论者。
The only things that are different now, says historian Richard Norton Smith, are that first, none of us remember that because none of us knows anything about history.
历史学家理查德·诺顿·史密斯说，现在唯一不同的是，首先，我们没有人记得那件事，因为我们没有人对历史一无所知。
And second, because of television and the other electronic media.
其次，因为电视和其他电子媒体。
We see every reaction flash over these guys' faces, which gives it all a certain emotional power.
我们看到这些人脸上闪过的每一个反应，这赋予了这一切一定的情感力量。
I mean, it's all in close up.
我的意思是，这一切都是近距离的。
It's much more intimate-- politics is much more intimate today.
今天的政治更加亲密。
One hundred years ago, or even the early part of the 20th century, presidents were essentially remote figures.
一百年前，甚至二十世纪初，总统基本上都是遥远的人物。
We saw them in newspapers.
我们在报纸上看到过他们。
We didn't see them 24 hours a day.
我们没有一天24小时见到他们。
They didn't come into our living rooms.
他们没有进入我们的客厅。
They weren't, in effect, an extended member of the family or a member of the extended family.
事实上，他们不是大家庭的成员，也不是大家庭的成员。
There's an intimacy about the modern presidency.
现代总统有一种亲密感。
In fact, that intimacy extends to all politics at every level.
事实上，这种亲密关系延伸到了所有政治层面的各个层面。
For example, what could be more intimate than this phone call which made statewide news in Massachusetts?
例如，还有什么比这个在马萨诸塞州成为全州新闻的电话更亲密的呢？
Even the car guys played it on their program on NPR.
就连汽车专家也在 NPR 的节目中播放了这首曲子。
Senatorial candidate Jack Robinson was on his cell phone talking to reporter Toni Randolph from Public Radio station WBUR.
参议员候选人杰克·罗宾逊正在用手机与公共广播电台 WBUR 的记者托尼·兰道夫交谈。
She was recording an interview asking about that day's news, that Governor Paul Cellucci had dropped his support for Robinson.
她正在录制采访，询问当天的新闻，即州长保罗·塞卢奇放弃了对罗宾逊的支持。
Basically, what you have is a Republican governor abdicating the United States senate campaign to Senator Kennedy just because the Governor doesn't think that there could be.
基本上，共和党州长将美国参议员竞选让给肯尼迪参议员，只是因为州长认为不可能。
I just got in an accident.
我刚刚出了事故。
Sorry about that.
对此感到抱歉。
Are you still there?
你还在吗？
I'm still here.
我还在这里。
Are you-- you got into an accident?
你——你出事故了吗？
Well, somebody just hit me but I'm OK.
嗯，刚刚有人打了我，但我没事。
Unfortunately, the other guy skidded across the highway here.
不幸的是，另一个人在这里滑过高速公路。
But at any rate, boy, everything's happening to me.
但无论如何，孩子，一切都发生在我身上。
Cellucci's withdrawing his support and now people are sledding across the highway at me.
塞卢奇撤回了他的支持，现在人们正穿过高速公路向我冲来。
But I'm OK.
但我没事。
Looks like the other guy is too.
看来另一个人也是这样。
You sure you're OK?
你确定你没事吗？
Jack E.
杰克·E。
Robinson Yes, I am.
罗宾逊 是的，我是。
I'm fine.
我很好。
OK.
好的。
I don't know-- I'm in new territory here.
我不知道——我进入了新领域。
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
I think we'll have to stop the interview.
我想我们必须停止采访了
But you got what you need.
但你已经得到了你需要的东西。
Sorry about that.
对此感到抱歉。
With the car accident, the stream of attack stories, the sheer oddness of putting out "The Robinson Report," detailing his own past-- at some point, a kind of pile-on mentality kicked in with the press and Jackie Robinson.
随着车祸、一系列袭击事件的发生，以及发布“罗宾逊报告”，详细描述他自己的过去，这完全是奇怪的——在某些时候，媒体和杰基·罗宾逊开始产生一种堆积的心态。
And at this point, the press and other politicians don't seem to take him very seriously.
在这一点上，媒体和其他政客似乎并没有认真对待他。
But when another WBUR reporter, Sean Cole, spent a day watching Robinson meet Republican voters, they were all so relieved that anybody would run against Kennedy, they embraced him.
但当另一位 WBUR 记者肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole) 花了一天时间观察罗宾逊与共和党选民会面时，他们都松了一口气，因为有人会反对肯尼迪，他们拥抱了他。
So it's hard to say if revealing all this about himself has helped or hurt him.
所以很难说透露自己的所有这些对他来说是帮助还是伤害。
Do you feel like it's fair that a person should have to say this much about themselves to get an office?
您认为一个人必须对自己说这么多才能获得职位，这公平吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's difficult for me to answer that intellectually honestly.
我很难诚实地从理智上回答这个问题。
Whether it's fair or not really is not for me to determine.
公平与否真的不是我能决定的。
The people of Massachusetts will have to determine that.
马萨诸塞州人民必须做出决定。
But personally, do you feel that it's fair?
但就你个人而言，你觉得公平吗？
Does it feel right that you should have to do something like this to run for office?
为了竞选公职，你必须做这样的事情吗？
No, it's definitely not right in my opinion.
不，在我看来这绝对是不对的。
Clearly, I can answer that today.
显然，我今天可以回答这个问题。
That's not how we should be picking candidates, as to who's got the strongest hide to disclose everything in their personal background that could possible be used against him.
这不是我们应该如何挑选候选人的方式，至于谁拥有最强大的隐藏能力来披露他们个人背景中可能用来对付他的一切。
There's this notion you hear sometimes that the viciousness of modern politics keeps good people from running for office.
有时你会听到这样的说法：现代政治的邪恶性阻碍了好人竞选公职。
But sometimes the politics of attack simply hastens the political demise of a candidate whose prospects weren't so great from the start.
但有时，政治攻击只会加速候选人的政治灭亡，而他的前景从一开始就不那么美好。
Meeting Jack Robinson, you wonder about his seriousness.
见到杰克·罗宾逊，你会好奇他的严肃性。
In his last official filing with the federal election commission, his campaign war chest had $613 in it as compared with his opponent's $3.7 million.
在他向联邦选举委员会提交的最后一份正式文件中，他的竞选资金中有 613 美元，而他的对手则有 370 万美元。
He has yet to articulate any policy positions he seems truly impassioned about.
他尚未阐明任何他似乎真正热衷的政策立场。
And when I visited his campaign headquarters, there were no signs in the windows, no campaign posters out front, nothing that would let anybody know that anybody was running for anything.
当我参观他的竞选总部时，窗户上没有任何标志，前面没有竞选海报，没有任何东西能让任何人知道有人在竞选任何东西。
Act Two.
第二幕。
"Sonny Takes a Fall."
“桑尼摔倒了。”
It turns out that if both sides in a political fight start throwing mud at each other, contrary to what you might think, it can definitely benefit one side more than the other.
事实证明，如果政治斗争中的双方都开始互相泼脏水，与你想象的相反，这肯定会让一方比另一方受益更多。
In a sense, this is the scenario that decided this year's republican nomination for president.
从某种意义上说，这就是决定今年共和党总统提名的情况。
David Foster Wallace happened to be reporting on the South Carolina primaries on the campaign of John McCain, when he got a chance to see this happen firsthand.
大卫·福斯特·华莱士（David Foster Wallace）碰巧在报道约翰·麦凯恩（John McCain）竞选活动中的南卡罗来纳州初选，当时他有机会亲眼目睹这一切的发生。
Even the network techs, who are practically zen masters at waiting around and killing time, are bored out of their minds today.
即使是网络技术人员，他们实际上是等待和消磨时间的禅宗大师，今天也感到无聊得发疯。
The way the techs handle deep boredom is to become extremely sluggish and torpid.
技术人员处理深度无聊的方式是变得极其迟钝和迟钝。
So that lined up on the makeshift ottoman, they look like an exhibit of lizards whose rock isn't hot enough.
因此，它们排列在临时的脚凳上，看起来就像是岩石不够热的蜥蜴展览。
Nobody reads.
没有人读。
Pulse rates are maybe about 40.
脉率可能约为 40。
The ABC cameraman lets his eyes almost close and naps in an un-restful way.
ABC 摄影师几乎闭上眼睛，不安地打盹。
The CBS and CNN techs who like cards today are not even bothering to play cards but are instead describing memorable card games they've been in in the past.
如今喜欢纸牌的 CBS 和 CNN 技术人员甚至懒得打牌，而是描述他们过去玩过的令人难忘的纸牌游戏。
Outside the riverfront hotel's side door, where it's so cold and windy you have to smoke with mittens on, Jim C.
在河滨酒店的侧门外，那里又冷又风大，抽烟必须戴手套，Jim C.
and his partner, Frank C.-- no relation-- engage in some off-the-record discourse about the 12 monkeys.
和他的搭档 Frank C.（没有亲属关系）私下谈论了 12 只猴子。
This is the tech's private code name for the most elite and least popular pencils in the McCain press corps.
这是麦凯恩新闻团队中最精英和最不受欢迎的铅笔的技术私人代号。
The 12 monkeys are a dozen marquis journalists and political analysis guys from the really important papers and weeklies and new services, and tend to be so totally identical in dress and demeanor as to be almost literally surreal.
这 12 只猴子是十几个侯爵记者和政治分析人员，来自真正重要的报纸、周刊和新服务，它们的着装和举止往往完全相同，几乎是超现实的。
12 immaculate and wrinkle free, navy blue blazers, half-windsored ties, pleated chinos, Oxford cloth shirts that even when the jackets come off stay 100% buttoned at collar and sleeves, Cole Haan loafers, and tortoise shell specs they love to take off and nibble the arm of.
12 件完美无皱的海军蓝色西装外套、半风洞领带、褶皱斜纹棉布裤、牛津布衬衫，即使夹克脱下来，领口和袖子处的纽扣也百分百扣紧，Cole Haan 乐福鞋，以及他们喜欢脱下来咬手臂的龟甲眼镜。
Plus always a uniform self-seriousness that reminds you of every over-achieving dweeb you ever wanted to kick the ass of in school.
另外，始终保持一种统一的自我严肃性，让你想起你在学校里曾经想踢掉的每一个成绩优异的笨蛋。
The techs avoid and try to pretty much ignore the 12 monkeys, who in turn treat the techs the way someone in an executive washroom treats the attendant.
技术人员避开并试图忽略这 12 只猴子，而它们反过来对待技术人员就像行政洗手间里的人对待服务员一样。
On return from the smoke break, we pass through a huge, empty, lobby-like space.
从排烟时间回来后，我们穿过一个巨大、空旷、类似大厅的空间。
It takes a long time to traverse this area, 100 yards of nothing but flagstone walls and plaques with the sad, pretentious names of the riverfront hotel's banquet halls and conference rooms-- the Oak Room, the Windsor Room.
穿过这个区域需要很长时间，100码的范围内什么也没有，只有石板墙和牌匾，上面写着河滨酒店的宴会厅和会议室的悲伤而自命不凡的名字——橡树厅、温莎厅。
But now out here are also half a dozen different members of the campaign press, each 50 feet away from any of the others for privacy and all walking in idle little counterclockwise circles with a cellphone to their ear.
但现在这里还有六名不同的竞选媒体成员，为了保护隐私，每人都与其他人相距 50 英尺，所有人都将手机放在耳边，沿着逆时针方向闲逛。
These little orbits are the cellular waltz, which is probably the digital equivalent of doodling or picking at yourself as you talk on a regular landline.
这些小轨道就是蜂窝华尔兹，这可能相当于您在普通固定电话上通话时涂鸦或挑剔自己。
There's something oddly lovely about the waltz's different circles here, which are of various diameters and stride lengths and rates of rotation, but are all identically counterclockwise and telephonic.
这里华尔兹的不同圆圈有一些奇怪的可爱之处，它们有不同的直径、步长和旋转速度，但都是相同的逆时针和电话。
We three slow down a bit to watch.
我们三人放慢脚步观看。
You couldn't not.
你不能不。
From above, like if there were a mezzanine, the waltzes would look like the cogs of some strange, diffused machine.
从上面看，就像有一个夹层一样，华尔兹看起来就像某种奇怪的、分散的机器的齿轮。
Frank C.
弗兰克·C.
says he can tell by their faces something's up.
说他可以从他们的表情看出有什么事情发生。
Jim C.
吉姆·C.
says what's interesting is that media south of the Equator do the exact same cellular waltz, but that down there all their circles are reversed.
说有趣的是赤道以南的媒体也做着完全相同的细胞华尔兹，但在那里他们的所有圈子都颠倒了。
And it turns out, Frank C.
事实证明，弗兰克 C.
was right as usual, that the reason press are dashing out and waltzing urgently in the lobby is that word has apparently started to spread that Mr. Mike Murphy of the McCain 2000 high command is coming down to do a surprise, impromptu press avail regarding a fresh, two-page press release still slightly warm from the Xerox, which two press liaisons are passing out even now, and of which the first page has, in bold caps, "Bush campaign caught red-handed with negative ads-- unethical push polling."
和往常一样，新闻界在大厅里匆匆冲出、跳华尔兹的原因显然是消息已经开始传播，麦凯恩 2000 高级指挥部的迈克·墨菲先生即将下来，对一份来自施乐的新鲜的、两页的新闻稿仍然略显温暖，进行一次令人惊讶的即兴新闻报道，甚至现在就有两名新闻联络员正在分发，其中第一页上用粗体大写字母写着“布什竞选活动被当场抓获”。带有负面广告——不道德的推式民意调查。”
This document is unusual not only because McCain 2000's press releases are normally studies in bland irrelevance-- "McCain to continue campaigning in Michigan today," "McCain has two helpings of potato salad at South Carolina VFW picnic." But also because no less a personage than Mr. Mike Murphy has indeed now just come down to spin this abrupt change of tone in the campaign's rhetoric.
这份文件不同寻常，不仅因为麦凯恩 2000 年的新闻稿通常都是平淡无奇的无关紧要的研究——“麦凯恩今天将继续在密歇根州竞选活动”、“麦凯恩在南卡罗来纳州 VFW 野餐会上吃了两份土豆沙拉”。但也因为像迈克·墨菲先生这样的人物现在确实刚刚下来，在竞选言辞中扭转了这种突然的基调变化。
Murphy, who is only 37 but seems older, is the McCain campaign's senior strategist, a professional political consultant who's already had 18 winning senate and gubernatorial campaigns.
墨菲年仅 37 岁，但看上去年龄更大，他是麦凯恩竞选团队的高级策略师，也是一名专业政治顾问，已在参议院和州长竞选中获胜 18 次。
He's a short, bottom-heavy man, pale in a kind of yeasty way, with baby-fine red hair on a large head and sleepy, turtle eyes behind the same sort of intentionally nerdy horn-rims that a lot of musicians and college kids now wear.
他个子矮小，屁股很重，脸色苍白，有点像发酵的样子，大脑袋上长着婴儿般纤细的红发，睡眼惺忪的乌龟般的眼睛藏在刻意书呆子般的角框后面，就像现在很多音乐家和大学生都戴着的一样。
Among political pros, Murphy has the reputation of being, one, smart and funny as hell, and two, a real attack dog working for clients like Oliver North, New Jersey's Christine Todd Whitman, and Michigan's own John Engler in campaigns that were absolute operas of nastiness.
在政治专业人士中，墨菲享有盛誉，一是聪明又风趣，二是一只真正的攻击狗，为奥利弗·诺斯、新泽西州的克里斯蒂娜·托德·惠特曼和密歇根州的约翰·恩格勒等客户工作，参与的竞选活动绝对是肮脏的歌剧。
He's leaning back against the file-and-feed room's wall and is surrounded in 180 degree arc by the 12 monkeys, all of whom have steno notebooks or tiny professional tape recorders out and keep clearing their throats and pushing their glasses up with excitement.
他靠在文件和反馈室的墙上，被 12 只猴子围成 180 度弧形，所有猴子都拿出速记笔记本或小型专业录音机，不断清着喉咙，兴奋地推着眼镜。
Murphy says he's, quote, "Just swung by to provide the press corps with some context on the strident press release and to give the corps advanced notice that the McCain campaign is also preparing a special response ad which will start airing in South Carolina tomorrow." Murphy uses the words "response" or "response ad" nine times in two minutes.
墨菲说，他“只是顺便向记者团提供一些有关这份刺耳新闻稿的背景信息，并提前通知记者团，麦凯恩竞选团队正在准备一则特别回应广告，该广告将于明天在南卡罗来纳州开始播出。”墨菲在两分钟内使用“响应”或“响应广告”九次。
And when one of the monkeys interrupts to ask whether it'd be fair to characterize this new ad as negative, Murphy gives him a long styptic look and spells out very slowly, R-E-S-P-O-N-S-E.
当其中一只猴子打断他，询问将这则新广告定性为负面是否公平时，墨菲凝视了他很长一段时间，并非常缓慢地拼出“R-E-S-P-O-N-S-E”。
He says that the press release and new ad reflect the McCain 2000 campaign's decision, after much agonizing, to respond to what he says is G.
他说，新闻稿和新广告反映了麦凯恩 2000 年竞选团队在经过一番痛苦之后做出的决定，对他所说的 G 做出回应。
W.
W.
Bush's welshing on the two candidates' public handshake agreement in January to run a bilaterally positive campaign.
布什对两位候选人在一月份公开握手的协议表示欢迎，以开展双边积极的竞选活动。
For the past five days, mostly in New York and South Carolina, the shrub has apparently been running ads that characterize McCain's policy proposals in what Murphy terms a, "Willfully distorting way." Plus there's the push polling, a practice which is regarded as the absolute bottom feeder of sleazy campaign tactics.
过去五天里，主要是在纽约和南卡罗来纳州，这家灌木丛显然一直在投放广告，以墨菲所说的“故意扭曲的方式”来描述麦凯恩的政策建议。另外还有推式民意调查，这种做法被认为是肮脏竞选策略的绝对底层。
But the worst, the most obviously unacceptable, Murphy emphasizes, was the shrub standing up at a podium in South Carolina a couple days ago with a wild-eyed and apparently notorious fringe veteran who publicly accused McCain of, quote, "Abandoning his fellow veterans after returning from Vietnam," which Murphy says, even without going into McCain's well-documented personal bio and heroic legislative efforts on behalf of vets for nearly 20 years, is just so clearly over the line of even minimal personal decency and honor, that it pretty much necessitates some sort of response.
但墨菲强调，最糟糕、最明显不可接受的是几天前，灌木丛站在南卡罗来纳州的一个讲台上，旁边是一位怒目而视、显然是臭名昭著的边缘退伍军人，他公开指责麦凯恩“从越南回来后抛弃了他的退伍军人同胞”，墨菲说，即使没有详细了解麦凯恩近 20 年来代表退伍军人的有据可查的个人简历和英勇的立法努力，这也是显而易见的。即使是最低限度的个人礼仪和荣誉，也几乎需要某种回应。
The 12 monkeys, who are old pros at this sort of exchange, keep trying to steer Murphy away from what the shrub's done and get him to give a quotable explanation of why McCain himself has decided to run this response ad, a transcript of which the harried press liaisons are now distributing from a fresh copier box, and which reads, in part, "I guess it was bound to happen.
这 12 只猴子是此类交流的老专家，他们一直试图引导墨菲远离灌木丛的所作所为，并让他对麦凯恩本人为何决定投放这则回应广告给出一个可引用的解释，忙碌的媒体联络员现在正在从一个新的复印机盒子中分发一份文字记录，其中部分内容是：“我猜这肯定会发生。
Governor Bush's campaign is getting desperate with a negative ad about me.
布什州长的竞选团队对我的负面广告感到绝望。
His ad twists the truth like Clinton.
他的广告像克林顿一样歪曲事实。
We're all pretty tired of that."
我们都对此感到厌倦了。”
The 12 monkeys now point out that, in particular, the "Twist the truth like Clinton," bit seems negative indeed, since in the year 2000, comparing the GOP candidate to Bill Clinton was roughly equivalent to claiming that he wears ladies' underwear while presiding over satanic masses.
12只猴子现在特别指出，“像克林顿一样扭曲事实”似乎确实是消极的，因为在2000年，将共和党候选人与比尔·克林顿进行比较，大致相当于声称他在主持撒旦弥撒时穿着女士内衣。
While checking their Prolyx equipment and getting ready to board the press bus for McCain's next stop, the GOP Lincoln Day Dinner in Saginaw, the network techs listened to this reporter's summary of the press release and Murphy's comments and confirmed that the shrub has indeed gone negative.
在检查 Prolyx 设备并准备登上前往麦凯恩下一站（萨吉诺共和党林肯日晚宴）的新闻巴士时，网络技术人员听取了记者对新闻稿的摘要和墨菲的评论，并确认灌木确实已转为阴性。
Be advised that these network camera and sound guys, who all have worked countless campaigns and who have neither the raging egos of journalists nor the self-interested agenda of the McCain 2000 staff to muddy their perspective, turn out to be way more acute and sensible political analysts than anyone you'll read or see on TV.
请注意，这些网络摄像机和音响人员都参与过无数次的竞选活动，他们既没有记者的狂妄自负，也没有麦凯恩 2000 工作人员的自私议程来混淆他们的观点，结果证明他们比你在电视上读到或看到的任何人都更加敏锐和明智的政治分析家。
And their assessment of today's negativity developments is so extraordinarily nuanced and sophisticated that only a small portion of it can be ripped off and summarized here.
他们对当今消极情绪发展的评估是如此细致和复杂，以至于这里只能抄袭和总结其中的一小部分。
And the techs now kill the last of the time in the riverfront by coolly analyzing Bush's negativity and McCain's response from a tactical point of view.
现在，技术人员从战术角度冷静地分析布什的消极情绪和麦凯恩的反应，在河边消磨了最后的时光。
Going negative is risky.
消极是有风险的。
Countless polls have shown that voters find negativity distasteful in the extreme.
无数民意调查显示，选民对消极情绪感到极度厌恶。
And if a candidate is perceived as going negative, it usually costs him.
如果一个候选人被认为表现消极，他通常会付出代价。
But of course, G.
但当然，G.
W.
W.
Bush is a creature of his campaign advisers.
布什是他的竞选顾问的产物。
And these advisers are the best that $70 million and the full faith and credit of the GOP establishment can buy.
这些顾问是 7000 万美元以及共和党建制派的充分信任和信用可以买到的最好的顾问。
And if Bush 2000 has gone negative, there must be solid political logic behind the move.
如果布什2000年的政策变得消极，那么此举背后必定有坚实的政治逻辑。
Under the techs' lens, this logic turns out to be indeed solid, even brilliant.
在技术人员的镜头下，这个逻辑确实是可靠的，甚至是绝妙的。
The shrub's attack leaves McCain with two options.
灌木丛的攻击给麦凯恩留下了两个选择。
If he chooses not to retaliate, some South Carolina voters will credit McCain for taking the high road.
如果他选择不报复，南卡罗来纳州的一些选民会认为麦凯恩走的是正路。
But it could also come off as wimpy and might compromise McCain's image as a tough, take-no-[BLEEP] guy with the balls to take on the Washington cleptocracy.
但这也可能会显得懦弱，并可能损害麦凯恩作为一个强硬、不服输、有胆量对抗华盛顿盗贼统治的形象。
So McCain pretty much has to strike back, the techs agree.
技术人员一致认为，麦凯恩几乎必须反击。
But this is extremely dangerous.
但这是极其危险的。
For by retaliating negatively, McCain runs the risk of looking like just another ambitious, win-at-any-cost politician.
因为通过消极报复，麦凯恩面临着看起来像另一个雄心勃勃、不惜一切代价取胜的政客的风险。
When after all, so much time and effort and money has gone into casting him as the opposite of that.
毕竟，我们投入了如此多的时间、精力和金钱来塑造他的反面形象。
Plus, the CBS cameraman points out that an even bigger reason why McCain can't afford to let the shrub, quote, "Pull him down to his level," is that if Bush then turns around and retaliates against the retaliation, and so then McCain has to rre-retaliate against Bush's retaliation, and so on, then the whole GOP race could quickly degenerate into just the sort of boring, depressing, cynical, charge and counter charge contest that turns voters off and keeps them away from the polls.
另外，哥伦比亚广播公司的摄影师指出，麦凯恩不能让灌木丛“把他拉到他的水平”的一个更大的原因是，如果布什随后转身对布什的报复进行报复，那么麦凯恩就必须对布什的报复进行重新报复，如此类推，那么整个共和党的竞选很快就会沦为那种无聊、压抑、愤世嫉俗、相互指责的竞争。一场让选民望而却步、远离民意调查的竞赛。
And the other techs agree that the really important tactical point here is that John S.
其他技术人员一致认为，这里真正重要的战术点是 John S.
McCain cannot afford to have voters get turned off since, after all, his whole strategy is based on exciting people and inspiring them and pulling more voters in, especially people who'd stopped voting because they'd gotten so disgusted and bored with all the negativity and bull-[BLEEP] of politics.
麦凯恩不能让选民失去兴趣，因为毕竟，他的整个策略是基于激励人们、鼓舞他们并吸引更多选民参与进来，特别是那些因为对政治的所有消极和牛气[BLEEP]感到厌恶和厌倦而停止投票的人。
In other words, this reporter proposes to the techs, it's maybe actually in the shrub's own political self-interest to let the GOP primary race get ugly and negative and have voters get so bored and cynical and disgusted with the whole thing that they don't even bother to vote.
换句话说，记者向技术人员提出，让共和党初选变得丑陋和消极，让选民对整件事感到无聊、愤世嫉俗和厌恶，甚至懒得去投票，这实际上可能符合灌木丛自身的政治利益。
Well, no, [BLEEP], Sherlock H., the ABC techs, in essence, respond.
好吧，不，[BLEEP]，Sherlock H.，ABC 技术人员，本质上是做出回应。
Good old Frank C.
老好人弗兰克·C.
then explaining more patiently that, yes, if there's a low voter turn out, then the majority of the people who get off their ass and do vote will be the die-hard Republicans, meaning the Christian Right and the party faithful.
然后更耐心地解释说，是的，如果投票率低，那么大多数下马投票的人将是顽固的共和党人，即基督教右翼和该党的忠实信徒。
And these are the groups that vote as they're told, the ones controlled by the GOP establishment, an establishment that's got $70 million and 100% of its own credibility invested in the shrub.
这些团体按照他们被告知的方式投票，由共和党建制派控制，共和党建制派拥有 7000 万美元和 100% 的信誉投资于灌木丛。
CNN's Mark A.
美国有线电视新闻网 (CNN) 的马克 A.
posits that this also explains why the amazingly life-like Al Gore, over in the Democratic race, has been so relentlessly negative and depressing in his attacks on Bill Bradley.
认为这也解释了为什么在民主党竞选中栩栩如生的戈尔在对比尔·布拉德利的攻击中如此无情地消极和令人沮丧。
Since Gore, like the shrub, has his party's establishment behind him with all its organization and money and the die hards who fall into line and vote as they're told.
因为戈尔就像灌木丛一样，有他的政党的机构、所有的组织和资金以及顽固分子的支持，他们按照他们的指示排队并投票。
It's in Big Al's interest to draw as few voters as possible into the Democratic primaries.
吸引尽可能少的选民参加民主党初选符合大阿尔的利益。
Because the lower the overall turnout, the more the establishment voters' ballots actually count.
因为总体投票率越低，建制派选民的选票实际上就越重要。
Which fact then, in turn, the CBS cameraman says, helps explain why, even though our elected representatives are always wringing their hands and making concerned noises about low voter turn-outs, nothing substantive ever gets done to make politics less ugly or depressing and to actually induce more people to vote.
哥伦比亚广播公司的摄影师说，这一事实反过来也有助于解释为什么，尽管我们选出的代表总是绞尽脑汁，对选民投票率低发出担忧的声音，却没有采取任何实质性措施来让政治变得不那么丑陋或令人沮丧，并真正吸引更多的人投票。
Our elected representatives are incumbents.
我们选出的代表是现任代表。
And low turnouts favor incumbents for the same reason soft money does.
低投票率有利于现任者，其原因与软资金的作用相同。
By this time, the techs are on the press bus.
这时，技术人员已经上了新闻巴士。
And since it's only a 10-minute ride to the Saginaw GOP dinner, they have their cameras down and boom sticks retracted, but all their gear still strapped on, which forces them to sit up uncomfortably straight and wince at bumps.
由于距离萨吉诺共和党晚宴只有 10 分钟车程，他们放下了相机，收回了摇杆，但所有装备仍然系在身上，这迫使他们坐得不舒服，在颠簸时皱起眉头。
And in the bus' mirrored ceiling, they look even more like sci-fi combat troops on their way to some alien beachhead.
在巴士的镜面天花板上，他们看起来更像是前往外星滩头阵地的科幻战斗部队。
In their opinion, tomorrow's response ad is not a promising start for McCain, especially the "Twist the truth like Clinton" line that the 12 monkeys jumped on Murphy for.
在他们看来，明天的回应广告对麦凯恩来说并不是一个有希望的开始，尤其是12只猴子跳到墨菲身上的“像克林顿一样扭曲事实”这句台词。
This lines too mean.
这句台词太刻薄了。
It does not sound high road.
听起来并不高调。
It sounds pissed off, aggressive, and it will allow Bush to do a react and now say that it's McCain who has violated the handshake agreement, which the techs say will, of course, be bull-[BLEEP] but that it might be effective bull-[BLEEP].
这听起来很生气，咄咄逼人，这将允许布什做出反应，现在说是麦凯恩违反了握手协议，技术人员说这当然是公牛-[BLEEP]，但它可能是有效的公牛-[BLEEP]。
And that it's McCain's aggressive ad that's giving the shrub the opening to do it.
正是麦凯恩咄咄逼人的广告给灌木丛提供了这样做的机会。
The tech's basic analysis of the motivation behind the ad's "Twist the truth like Clinton," line is that McCain is genuinely, personally pissed off at the shrub and that he has taken Mike Murphy's leash off and let Murphy do what Murphy does best which is gutter fight.
该技术对广告“像克林顿一样扭曲事实”背后动机的基本分析是，麦凯恩个人对灌木丛感到真正的愤怒，他已经松开了迈克·墨菲的束缚，让墨菲做墨菲最擅长的事情，那就是阴沟里的斗争。
McCain, after all, is known for having a temper.
毕竟，麦凯恩以脾气暴躁而闻名。
And Jim C.
还有吉姆·C.
thinks that maybe the truly ingenious thing the shrub's strategists did was to find a way to genuinely piss McCain off and make him want to go negative, even though his staff had to have warned him that this was playing right into Bush's strategists hands.
认为灌木丛战略家所做的真正巧妙的事情也许是找到一种方法真正激怒麦凯恩并让他想要消极，尽管他的工作人员必须警告他这正中布什战略家的下怀。
Jim's analysis suddenly reminds this reporter of the thing in The Godfather where Sonny Corleone's fatal flaw is his temper, which Barzini and Tattaglia exploit by getting Carlo to beat up Connie and makes Sonny so insanely angry that he drives off to kill Carlo and gets assassinated in Barzini's ambush at that tollbooth in the Richmond Parkway.
吉姆的分析突然让记者想起了《教父》中桑尼·柯里昂的致命缺点就是脾气，巴齐尼和塔塔利亚利用这一点让卡洛殴打康妮，桑尼非常生气，开车去杀卡洛，结果在里士满大道收费站的巴齐尼伏击中被暗杀。
And a taciturn but cinephilic CNN cameraman speculates that the Bush campaign's brain trust may actually have based their whole negative strategy on Barzini's ingenious ploy in The Godfather .
一位沉默寡言但热衷于电影的 CNN 摄影师推测，布什竞选团队的智囊实际上可能是根据巴尔齐尼在《教父》中巧妙的策略制定了他们的整个负面策略。
Whereupon Frank C.
于是弗兰克·C.
observes that Bush's equivalent to slapping Connie Corleone around was standing up with a wacko vet who claimed that McCain dissed his Vietnam comrades, which at first might have looked stupid and unnecessarily nasty of Bush, but from another perspective might be sheer genius if it made McCain so angry that his desire to retaliate outweighed his political judgment.
观察到，布什相当于打康妮·柯里昂一巴掌，与一名古怪的兽医站在一起，后者声称麦凯恩侮辱了他的越南战友，乍一看，这可能看起来很愚蠢，而且对布什来说不必要的讨厌，但从另一个角度来看，如果这让麦凯恩如此愤怒，以至于他的报复欲望超过了他的政治判断力，那么这可能是纯粹的天才。
Because, Frank C.
因为，弗兰克 C.
warns, just watch.
警告，请注意。
This retaliation, and Bush's response to it, and McCain's response to Bush's response-- this will be all that the 12 monkeys and the rest of the press corps are interested in.
这种报复，以及布什对此的回应，以及麦凯恩对布什回应的回应——这将是12只猴子和其他记者团感兴趣的全部。
And if McCain lets things get too ugly, he won't be able to get anybody to pay attention to anything else.
如果麦凯恩让事情变得太丑陋，他将无法让任何人关注其他事情。
And sure enough, events of the next few days bear out the techs' analysis pretty much 100%.
果然，接下来几天发生的事件几乎 100% 证实了技术人员的分析。
On Tuesday morning on the Radisson's TV in North Savannah, South Carolina, both Today and Good Morning America lead with, "The GOP campaign takes an ugly turn," and show the part of McCain's new ad where he says, "Twist the truth like Clinton."
周二早上，在南卡罗来纳州北萨凡纳的丽笙电视台，《今日》和《早安美国》都以“共和党竞选活动发生了丑陋的转变”为开头，并播放了麦凯恩新广告的一部分，其中他说“像克林顿一样扭曲事实”。
And sure enough, by midday the shrub has put out a react where he accuses John S.
果然，到了中午，灌木丛就做出了反应，指责约翰·S·肯尼迪。
McCain of violating the handshake agreement and going negative and adds that he, the shrub, is personally offended and outraged at being compared to W.
麦凯恩违反了握手协议并变得消极，并补充说，他个人对与 W. 进行比较感到被冒犯和愤怒。
J.
J。
Clinton.
克林顿.
And by Wednesday night, focus polls are showing that South Carolina voters are finding McCain's ad negative and depressing.
到周三晚上，焦点民意调查显示，南卡罗来纳州选民认为麦凯恩的广告负面且令人沮丧。
And the next couple days' polls then have both McCain's support and the primaries projected voter turnout falling like a rock.
接下来几天的民意调查显示，麦凯恩的支持率和初选预计选民投票率都大幅下降。
And the daily press are having to turn out piece after piece about all the endless picayune charges and countercharges.
每日媒体不得不一篇又一篇地报道所有无休无止的皮卡尤恩指控和反指控。
And everyone on the bus is starting to get severely dispirited and bored.
公交车上的每个人都开始变得非常沮丧和无聊。
And even the 12 monkeys' strides have lost a certain smug spring.
甚至连十二只猴子的步伐都失去了某种踌躇满志的弹簧。
And McCain not only, of course, loses South Carolina, but then a couple weeks later the whole Carlo and Sonny scenario plays out again on super Tuesday, only bigger this time with McCain lashing angrily out at the Christian Right and calling Robertson and Falwell agents of intolerance and basically alienating the whole GOP's die hard right-wing.
当然，麦凯恩不仅失去了南卡罗来纳州，而且几周后，卡洛和桑尼的整个场景在超级星期二再次上演，这次的规模更大，麦凯恩愤怒地猛烈抨击基督教右翼，称罗伯逊和福尔韦尔是不宽容的代理人，基本上疏远了整个共和党的顽固右翼。
And why?
为什么？
Because some person or persons unknown had gotten Falwell and Robertson to tape certain anti-McCain remarks and disseminate them via automated phone call to registered voters in key states, remarks so off-the-charts mean and distorted that they pissed McCain off enough that he goes on TV and gives the Christian Right the public finger.
因为一些不知名的人让福尔韦尔和罗伯逊录制了某些反麦凯恩的言论，并通过自动电话将其传播给关键州的登记选民，这些言论如此刻薄和扭曲，以至于激怒了麦凯恩，以至于他在电视上对基督教右派进行了公众指责。
While Murphy and the McCain 2000 high command doubtless stand there and bite their wrists in frustration, practically seeing McCain's glossy coupe pull angrily up to that tollbooth.
墨菲和麦凯恩 2000 高级指挥官无疑站在那里，沮丧地咬着手腕，几乎看到麦凯恩那辆光滑的轿跑车愤怒地停在收费站前。
David Foster Wallace is the author of several books, including Brief Interviews with Hideous Men .
大卫·福斯特·华莱士是多本书的作者，其中包括《丑陋男人的简短访谈》。
This was an edited excerpt of a story that first appeared in Rolling Stone Magazine.
这是首次出现在《滚石》杂志上的故事的编辑摘录。
Coming up, how to run a smear campaign in junior high school and how not to run one in a presidential race.
接下来，如何在初中开展抹黑运动以及如何在总统竞选中不进行抹黑运动。
That's in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program-- "Character Assassination," true stories to prepare us for the coming battle between George Bush and Al Gore.
今天的节目——“人物暗杀”，真实的故事让我们为即将到来的乔治·布什和阿尔·戈尔之间的战斗做好准备。
We've arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, "When Slime is Good."
第三幕，“当史莱姆好时”。
Ron Susskind's an author who's been on our show.
罗恩·苏斯金德 (Ron Susskind) 是一位作家，曾参加过我们的节目。
But years ago he was a political consultant.
但多年前，他是一名政治顾问。
He says that when he began in politics, he thought there was nothing lower than negative campaigning.
他说，当他开始从政时，他认为没有什么比消极的竞选活动更糟糕的了。
And then, in 1980, he learned that sometimes when your opponent attacks, it can actually help you.
然后，在 1980 年，他了解到，有时当你的对手进攻时，它实际上可以帮助你。
At the time he was working on John Anderson's campaign for president, Anderson was being attacked by candidate Ronald Reagan and by candidate Jimmy Carter.
当安德森参与约翰·安德森的总统竞选活动时，他受到了候选人罗纳德·里根和候选人吉米·卡特的攻击。
The Democrats would say, he's Don Quixote.
民主党人会说，他是堂吉诃德。
He's flaky.
他很脆弱。
He's on an ether binge.
他正在沉迷于乙醚。
I mean, they just went after him.
我的意思是，他们只是追赶他。
And on the Republican side, Anderson is a liberal and is controlled by his wife.
而共和党方面，安德森是自由派，受妻子控制。
That was a big thing that came out.
这是一件大事。
And the more they attacked, what did it do to Anderson's popularity?
而他们的攻击越多，对安德森的人气有什么影响呢？
Well, that was the interesting part.
嗯，这是有趣的部分。
The more they attacked, the better it was for us.
他们攻击得越多，对我们来说就越好。
His poll ratings rose steadily through the summer.
整个夏天，他的民调支持率稳步上升。
Steadily and swiftly.
稳定而迅速。
He almost seemed to feel their focus and intensity on him, by virtue of their attack, and say see, they do care about me.
凭借他们的攻击，他几乎感觉到他们对他的关注和强度，并说看，他们确实关心我。
They are worried about me.
他们很担心我。
They are attacking me just to prove that.
他们攻击我只是为了证明这一点。
And it doesn't bother me one little bit.
这一点也不困扰我。
That's interesting.
那很有意思。
Because as a third party candidate, his big problem was that people might not take him seriously as a threat.
因为作为第三方候选人，他的大问题是人们可能不会把他视为威胁。
And here he's got the two other candidates letting people know he is a threat.
在这里，他让另外两位候选人让人们知道他是一个威胁。
Exactly, by virtue of their focus on him.
正是因为他们对他的关注。
Do the attacks do anything else, in terms of people's feeling about a candidate?
就人们对候选人的看法而言，这些攻击还会产生其他影响吗？
Yeah, they do.
是的，他们确实这么做了。
They do.
他们确实这么做了。
They provide opportunities where the candidate must be real and genuine and show his or her self to the public.
它们提供了候选人必须真实、真诚并向公众展示自我的机会。
They break through the noise of the canned stuff.
他们打破了罐头食品的噪音。
And when the attacks come, people sort of snap to attention.
当袭击发生时，人们会突然集中注意力。
Because they figure whether or not the attack is credible, what I'll see now is I'll see candidate X actually respond like a real person, like I would.
因为他们会判断攻击是否可信，所以我现在看到的是候选人 X 实际上会像真人一样做出反应，就像我一样。
And it allows for that window, that moment for the voter to actually see the face of something real.
它为选民提供了一个窗口，让他们能够真正看到真实事物的面孔。
Act Four.
第四幕。
"Who You Gonna Call?" Character assassination, you know, runs all through our society.
“你要打电话给谁？”你知道，人格诽谤在我们的社会中随处可见。
And there is an entire class of consultant who does nothing but help people and companies that are under public attack.
还有一整类顾问除了帮助受到公众攻击的人和公司之外什么也不做。
Eric Dezenhall is one of these people.
埃里克·德泽霍尔 (Eric Dezenhall) 就是其中之一。
He works for a crisis management firm in Washington, D.
他在华盛顿特区的一家危机管理公司工作。
C.
C.
What is very important for people to understand is that character assassination has become big business.
对于人们来说非常重要的一点是，人格刺杀已经成为一门大生意。
There are a series of folks who package attacks.
有一系列的人在进行打包攻击。
And they include plaintiffs' lawyers, activist groups, individuals with random axe to grind and who are willing to get on TV and say something bad about either a product or a person.
其中包括原告的律师、激进团体、心怀恶意、愿意在电视上说产品或个人坏话的人。
And the media are very, very likely to embrace these attacks.
媒体非常非常有可能接受这些攻击。
There is a huge infrastructure and distribution channel by which to sell it.
有庞大的基础设施和分销渠道可供销售。
For example, when Kathie Lee Gifford was attacked by the magazine, The Globe , where her husband was set up in a hotel room with a stewardess, if that's what you'd like to call her.
例如，当凯西·李·吉福德 (Kathie Lee Gifford) 受到《环球》杂志的攻击时，她的丈夫被安排在酒店房间里，身边还有一名空姐（如果你愿意这样称呼她的话）。
A stewardess who was paid.
一个有报酬的空姐。
The very same people who claimed they were disgusted by this type of thing drove up The Globe's sales by 15% that year.
正是这些声称对此类事情感到厌恶的人，当年将《环球报》的销量推高了 15%。
It's interesting to me.
这对我来说很有趣。
One of the things that you argue is that one reason why these kinds of things happen a lot is that we want somebody to be the villain.
你争论的一件事是，这类事情经常发生的原因之一是我们希望有人成为恶棍。
You write about filling the villain void.
你写的是填补反派角色的空白。
And that there's something in us where we want to see somebody brought down.
我们内心深处有些东西希望看到某人被打倒。
Yeah.
是的。
The attack on Kathie Lee Gifford was, of course, engineered by finding a vulnerability with her husband.
当然，对凯西·李·吉福德的攻击是通过寻找她丈夫的弱点而策划的。
But there's no question that the target was Kathie Lee Gifford.
但毫无疑问，目标是凯西·李·吉福德。
People were out to get her for a long, long time.
人们长期以来一直想抓她。
And my feeling is, when you get on television day after day and you talk about your perfect marriage and your perfect children, you have a lot of people out there who are saying, I don't have a perfect marriage.
我的感觉是，当你日复一日地在电视上谈论你完美的婚姻和完美的孩子时，很多人都会说，我没有完美的婚姻。
I don't have perfect children.
我没有完美的孩子。
Enough with her already.
和她在一起已经够了。
And the public was extremely receptive to any negative information they got from her, about her.
公众非常容易接受从她那里得到的任何关于她的负面信息。
Can we just talk about the strategy used by Kathie Lee Gifford and her husband, Frank, once this news came out?
我们能谈谈这个消息传出后，凯西·李·吉福德和她的丈夫弗兰克所采取的策略吗？
The fact that they let people know that they were hurt, that this hurt their marriage, that this caused them pain, how important is that?
事实上，他们让人们知道他们受到了伤害，这伤害了他们的婚姻，这给他们带来了痛苦，这有多重要？
I think the first thing that the Gifford's did, as I recall it, was incorrect, which is to deny that this had happened.
我认为吉福德夫妇所做的第一件事，据我所知，是错误的，那就是否认这件事发生过。
Ultimately though, they found out a little uncomfortable fact which is, there was film.
但最终，他们发现了一个有点令人不安的事实，那就是有胶片。
That's right.
这是正确的。
The Globe staged it very cunningly.
《环球报》非常巧妙地安排了这一切。
First they released the news, and then they got the denials.
他们先是发布了消息，然后又遭到否认。
And then they came out with the video the week later.
一周后他们发布了视频。
Well, that's exactly right.
嗯，完全正确。
Initially, they denied it.
最初，他们否认了这一点。
And when there's hard core evidence-- no pun intended-- it's a very, very hard thing to back out from.
当有硬核证据时——没有双关语的意思——这是一件非常非常难以退出的事情。
But the next thing that the Giffords did was absolutely correct.
但吉福德夫妇接下来做的事情是绝对正确的。
They acknowledged what the most fundamental thing that the public wanted to hear was, which was that they are human and that they are hurt.
他们承认公众想听到的最基本的事情是，他们是人，他们受到了伤害。
And one way to get people off your back is to concede that you're human.
让人们摆脱你的困扰的一种方法就是承认你是人。
And that is really what, a lot of times, the goal of these attacks are, to bring you down to our size.
很多时候，这些攻击的真正目的就是让你的规模缩小到我们的规模。
I think that the media understand that there are certain basic things in human nature where the narratives have to be repeated.
我认为媒体明白，人性中有一些基本的东西，必须重复叙述。
And the public enjoys seeing someone who they believe has too much fall.
公众喜欢看到他们认为跌倒太多的人。
One of the things that's striking about it is, when the attack comes, they are cast as characters in this drama.
令人震惊的事情之一是，当袭击来临时，他们就扮演了这部剧中的角色。
And at that point, it's almost as if they have to choose what role they want to play and have to give people the satisfaction people would get from a drama.
到那时，他们就好像必须选择自己想扮演的角色，并且必须给人们带来从戏剧中获得的满足感。
That is, people want to see them take a fall.
也就是说，人们希望看到他们跌倒。
They have to be contrite.
他们必须悔悟。
If they're defiant, they won't be playing the character that will actually end the story.
如果他们反抗，他们就不会扮演真正结束故事的角色。
Every news attack is packaged like a traditional Hollywood entertainment.
每一次新闻攻击都像传统的好莱坞娱乐节目一样包装。
There is a villain.
有一个小人。
There is a victim.
有一个受害者。
There is a vindicator.
有一个辩护者。
And you can either be the villain, the victim, or the vindicator.
你要么是恶棍，要么是受害者，要么是维护者。
In this particular case, the Giffords were the villains.
在这个特殊的案例中，吉福德家族才是罪魁祸首。
They were people who lied to us about the quality of their marriage.
他们在婚姻质量方面向我们撒谎。
The victims, of course, were us, the American public, who were duped by these horrible people.
受害者当然是我们美国公众，他们被这些可怕的人欺骗了。
And the vindicator, of course, was The Globe , who came forward to bring this truth, this hideous truth, to us.
当然，辩护者是《环球报》，他挺身而出，向我们讲述了这个真相，这个可怕的真相。
The Giffords have a choice at that moment.
吉福德夫妇此时有一个选择。
They can either stay the villains or they can become the victims.
他们要么继续做坏人，要么成为受害者。
And neither is a wonderful choice, by the way.
顺便说一句，这两者都不是一个很好的选择。
And the best choice for them at that point was to come forward and show their humanity by playing the role of the victim.
此时他们最好的选择就是挺身而出，扮演受害者的角色，展现人性。
The thing about an attack is that it must end with a clear and unequivocal conclusion or the public is frustrated.
攻击的关键在于，它必须以清晰明确的结论结束，否则公众就会感到沮丧。
We want total guilt.
我们想要完全的内疚。
We want total innocence.
我们想要完全的纯真。
The conclusions have to be unequivocal.
结论必须是明确的。
What would you advise somebody like Governor Bush to do about the attacks on his record and tenure that are happening now?
对于现在发生的针对他的记录和任期的攻击，您会建议像布什州长这样的人采取什么措施？
For example, the vice president is saying that Governor Bush isn't ready for office, that his tax plan and his foreign policy plans are risky, that Texas-- his record in Texas-- is terrible because Texas has substandard health and education policies.
例如，副总统说布什州长还没有准备好就职，他的税收计划和外交政策计划有风险，德克萨斯州——他在德克萨斯州的记录——很糟糕，因为德克萨斯州的健康和教育政策不合格。
The vice president calls Texas the most polluted state in the country.
副总统称德克萨斯州是美国污染最严重的州。
What should George Bush do against that?
对此，乔治·布什应该采取什么措施呢？
What are his options?
他的选择是什么？
In order for an attack to work, it doesn't have to be true.
为了使攻击起作用，它不一定是真的。
It has to be plausible and resonant.
它必须是合理且能引起共鸣的。
And the first thing he has to do is find out which of these attacks is resonating.
他要做的第一件事就是找出哪些攻击引起了共鸣。
I think that the biggest attack on Bush that does resonate is this broad notion-- not of this policy or that policy-- but that he is not a guy who has the seasoning to handle this job.
我认为，对布什确实引起共鸣的最大攻击是这种广泛的概念——不是这个政策或那个政策——而是他不是一个有能力胜任这项工作的人。
And the best thing he can do is demonstrate that he does.
他能做的最好的事情就是证明他做到了。
And one of the ways to do that, unfortunately, is to go on the attack back against Gore.
不幸的是，实现这一目标的方法之一就是继续反击戈尔。
Now, if your follow-up question is, are you saying that he should defend by, in effect, attacking-- unfortunately, that is what I'm saying.
现在，如果你的后续问题是，你是说他实际上应该通过进攻来防守——不幸的是，这就是我所说的。
Whoever attacks wins the market.
谁进攻，谁就赢得了市场。
Whoever attacks gets to the news cycle most quickly.
谁发起攻击，谁就能最快进入新闻周期。
And I think that his best overall response is going to be continuing to attack Gore.
我认为他最好的总体反应是继续攻击戈尔。
And one of the reasons why I think that this campaign is going to be intensely negative is because neither of these guys is likable and can skate on their charm.
我认为这场竞选活动将会产生强烈负面影响的原因之一是因为这两个人都不讨人喜欢，也无法发挥自己的魅力。
Is it possible, when attacked, to respond simply with the truth?
当受到攻击时，是否可以简单地用事实来回应？
Or is it always better to respond with another attack, a counterattack?
还是用另一次攻击、反击来回应总是更好？
I am not speaking as a moralist.
我不是以道德家的身份说话。
I am speaking as a clinician.
我是作为一名临床医生发言的。
And as a clinician, I can tell you that I do not see clients that have been immediately forgiven for confessing certain things.
作为一名临床医生，我可以告诉你，我没有见过因承认某些事情而立即被原谅的客户。
Morally, I think that is disquieting.
从道德上讲，我认为这令人不安。
But in terms of reality, as I look over my clients over two decades, I have not seen a correlation in my career between confession and forgiveness.
但就现实而言，当我审视我的客户二十年来时，我并没有看到我的职业生涯中忏悔和宽恕之间存在关联。
Hm.
嗯。
Eric, do you feel like there's something Pollyanna-ish about even wanting to get the attacks out of politics?
埃里克，你是否觉得想要将攻击从政治中剔除，这有点盲目乐观？
That is, do you feel like, in fact, in a deeper way there's nothing wrong with these attacks in politics?
也就是说，您是否觉得，事实上，从更深层次的角度来看，这些政治攻击并没有什么问题？
Well, I don't think that all of these attacks are nearly as destructive and as new as the public likes.
嗯，我不认为所有这些攻击都像公众所希望的那样具有破坏性和新奇性。
I just think, at some level, attacking does ferret out the truth.
我只是认为，在某种程度上，攻击确实可以查出真相。
The problem, in my view, is differentiating between attacks that are a part of debate and attacks that are just plain smears.
在我看来，问题在于区分属于辩论一部分的攻击和纯粹诽谤的攻击。
But in the case of politics, it seems like the kind of smears that one sees are things that-- they have an element of truth, but how much truth they have is open to debate.
但就政治而言，人们看到的那种抹黑似乎有一定的真实性，但有多少真实性还有待商榷。
For example, George Bush saying about Vice President Gore, "He'll say anything to get elected." Well, there certainly is an element of truth in that.
例如，乔治·布什谈到副总统戈尔时说：“为了当选他会说任何话。”嗯，这当然有一定的道理。
And we all have seen that.
我们都看到了这一点。
And the same thing on the converse.
反之亦然。
You know, the vice president saying about George Bush, "He isn't seasoned." Well, he isn't seasoned when it comes to all these kinds of policies.
你知道，副总统在谈到乔治·布什时说：“他经验不足。”好吧，他在所有这些政策方面都没有经验。
Yeah, I think that these are examples of attacks that are legitimate.
是的，我认为这些都是合法攻击的例子。
The fact is-- these so-called attacks are really a part of a broader debate that get to certain critical questions.
事实是，这些所谓的攻击实际上是涉及某些关键问题的更广泛辩论的一部分。
Look, I believe that even the questions about Bush's alleged drug use are germane.
看，我相信即使是有关布什涉嫌吸毒的问题也是密切相关的。
Because I believe that one of the things that is nagging at a lot of the country-- and this was true of John F.
因为我相信困扰这个国家很多人的事情之一——约翰·肯尼迪就是如此。
Kennedy as well-- is, is it a healthy thing to have a rich kid who has never had a tough day in his life sitting in the oval office?
肯尼迪也是如此——有一个一生中从未经历过艰难日子的富家子弟坐在椭圆形办公室是一件健康的事情吗？
Whether or not the allegations, one by one, are true isn't as important as the fact that the broader questions are being asked.
这些指控是否一一真实并不重要，重要的是人们提出了更广泛的问题。
And frankly, I don't think it's the most unhealthy thing in the world.
坦率地说，我不认为这是世界上最不健康的事情。
Eric Dezenhall of the Nichols-Dezenhall Communications Management Group.
Nichols-Dezenhall 通信管理集团的 Eric Dezenhall。
He's the author of a book about his craft called, Nail 'Em.
他是一本关于他的手艺的书的作者，书名为《Nail 'Em》。
[MUSIC- "WASHINGTON, D.C." BY THE MAGNETIC FIELDS]
[音乐-“华盛顿特区”通过磁场]
Act Five, "When Attacks Really Count." Though Washington, D.
第五幕，“当攻击真正重要时”。尽管华盛顿，D.
C., you think that's mean?
C.你觉得这很卑鄙吗？
Just remember junior high school.
只记得初中的时候。
That's when character assassination really hurt.
这就是人格暗杀真正造成伤害的时候。
We have this story.
我们有这个故事。
I guess this is about Dave and me, right?
我想这是关于戴夫和我的，对吧？
Dave and I became friends in fourth grade.
戴夫和我在四年级时成为了朋友。
And we were friends through sixth grade.
我们六年级时都是朋友。
And I have to describe him physically, because that's a huge part of his personality.
我必须描述他的外表，因为这是他性格的重要组成部分。
He was, and he still is, an extremely wiry person.
他过去是，现在仍然是，一个极其精瘦的人。
Very thin.
很薄。
He looks emaciated.
他看上去很憔悴。
And he also-- his skin is like a jaundiced yellow color.
还有他——他的皮肤就像黄疸一样的黄色。
He was always very acned and he just looked sick all the time.
他脸上总是长满粉刺，看上去总是一副病恹恹的样子。
He was a very meek, quiet kid, very un-assuming.
他是一个非常温顺、安静的孩子，非常不张扬。
Nobody ever really noticed him doing anything.
没有人真正注意到他在做什么。
I don't really know how we became friends.
我真不知道我们是怎么成为朋友的。
We were in class together in grade school.
小学时我们一起上课。
And our favorite group was the Village People.
我们最喜欢的团体是乡村人民。
And we used to listen to the Village People all the time and just totally obsess about them.
我们过去总是听村民的意见，并且完全着迷于他们。
And The Dukes of Hazzard was another one, and Star Wars .
《哈扎德公爵》是另一部，还有《星球大战》。
Those were very big things.
这些都是非常大的事情。
And as things progressed into fifth grade, it became pretty clear that our friendship was the most intense friendship in the class.
随着事情进展到五年级，很明显我们的友谊是班上最亲密的友谊。
Teachers started separating us in the classrooms constantly, like on the first day of school.
老师开始不断地在教室里把我们分开，就像开学第一天一样。
They wouldn't even think about it.
他们根本不会去想。
We would talk on the phone at least once a day and for hours.
我们每天至少通一次电话，聊上几个小时。
We would just talk for hours.
我们只会聊几个小时。
I basically discovered sexuality through him.
我基本上是通过他发现了性。
And we used to-- I remember the first thing that we did together that was sexual was we went into his parents' bedroom.
我们曾经——我记得我们一起做的第一件事是性的，就是我们走进他父母的卧室。
And we got the J.
我们得到了 J。
C.
C.
Penney catalog and looked through it and went to the bra and panties section and looked through this.
彭尼目录并浏览了它，然后转到胸罩和内裤部分并浏览了这个。
And it was the first time I had ever indulged in this.
这是我第一次沉迷于此。
I always kind of skipped it over.
我总是跳过它。
And then the other thing that we did was we used to play Spin the Bottle in his room.
然后我们做的另一件事是我们经常在他的房间里玩旋转瓶子。
And we would take off an article of clothing for when it would land on us.
当一件衣服落在我们身上时，我们会脱掉它。
And it was the first time we'd ever been naked in front of another person except for our parents.
这是我们第一次在除了父母之外的其他人面前赤身裸体。
And it was petrifying.
这真是令人震惊。
But it was also just this whole discovery period of just seeing another man naked there.
但这也正是在整个发现期间看到另一个男人裸体在那里。
And it became this whole game that we played often.
这成了我们经常玩的整个游戏。
And we just would revel in the fact of just standing there in front of each other, totally naked, assuming these characters just like-- hi, Mr. Jones, how are you?
我们会陶醉于这样的事实：完全赤身裸体地站在彼此面前，假设这些角色就像——嗨，琼斯先生，你好吗？
Nice to meet you.
很高兴见到你。
Businessmen and everything, just standing there completely buck naked and so terrified that we were ever going to get caught.
商人和一切，只是赤身裸体地站在那里，非常害怕我们会被抓住。
Because his parents were always home.
因为他的父母总是在家。
They were always in the house and everything and we were just so afraid that someone was going to knock on the door.
他们总是在房子里，什么都在，我们只是害怕有人来敲门。
The point that it started to change was as we were going into sixth grade.
当我们进入六年级时，情况开始发生变化。
And that's around the time when people start to-- people in sixth grade start to realize that there's a difference between someone who's straight and someone who's gay.
就在那时，人们开始——六年级的人开始意识到异性恋和同性恋之间存在差异。
And there was just rumblings happening.
只是有隆隆声发生。
People were accusing us of being homosexual.
人们指责我们是同性恋。
We weren't in any way.
我们没有以任何方式。
But we also knew of all the things that we had done with each other, in each other's presence.
但我们也知道我们在彼此面前所做的所有事情。
And "faggot" was like the most derogatory thing you could call somebody.
而“基佬”就像是对某人最有贬义的称呼。
And people were thinking these things.
人们正在思考这些事情。
I think when people started to think that we were gay, we suddenly realized that there was a cool thing and a not cool thing.
我认为当人们开始认为我们是同性恋时，我们突然意识到有一件很酷的事情，也有一件不酷的事情。
And we were definitely not cool in the friendship that we were in.
我们之间的友谊绝对不是很酷。
And that's also around that time when-- in my town at least, and I think in a lot of small towns-- when sports just become the most important thing in your life.
也正是在那个时候——至少在我的城镇，我想在很多小镇——体育刚刚成为你生活中最重要的事情。
And I was not a good athlete then at all.
那时我根本不是一名优秀的运动员。
Dave was a good athlete.
戴夫是一位优秀的运动员。
And Dave organized a big football party one weekend where we were going to go out there and play football and have a sleepover and then the next day play more football.
一个周末，戴夫组织了一场大型足球派对，我们要出去踢足球，过夜，然后第二天再踢更多足球。
Dave just organized this thing unbelievably.
戴夫难以置信地组织了这件事。
He had jerseys printed up with numbers and names on them.
他的球衣上印有号码和名字。
He had teams with rosters.
他的球队有名单。
He had practice for his team with plays.
他为他的球队进行了戏剧训练。
There was like a playbook.
就像一本剧本。
This is for a little football game like three-on-three football or four-on-four football.
这是针对小型足球比赛，例如三对三足球或四对四足球。
And every single minute was decided upon beforehand by him as to what we would do-- where we would be, what we would eat, the food we would eat, when we would play football.
他每一分钟都事先决定了我们要做什么——我们要去哪里，我们要吃什么，我们要吃的食物，我们什么时候踢球。
It was all timed out.
一切都超时了。
He's just so organized and anal retentive about it.
他就是这么有条理，而且对这件事记忆犹新。
And so when we got out there and played, I don't remember very well, but I can't imagine that I played tremendously well.
所以当我们出去比赛时，我不太记得了，但我无法想象我打得非常好。
And there were other really good athletes there.
那里还有其他非常优秀的运动员。
And I was horrible.
我很糟糕。
And I think-- I was thinking about this today.
我想——我今天正在考虑这个问题。
I was trying to think of the moment when everything changed.
我试图回想一切都改变的那一刻。
And I'm almost positive it was that event.
我几乎可以肯定这就是那次事件。
It was the football party.
那是一场足球派对。
And immediately after that, he just totally stopped talking to me.
在那之后他就完全不再跟我说话了。
I remember going into class in seventh grade on the first day of school and him not talking to me and everybody just wondering.
我记得七年级开学第一天走进教室，他没有和我说话，每个人都只是想知道。
I mean, the whole school was wondering why there was this big fight going on between Dave and Bob.
我的意思是，整个学校都想知道为什么戴夫和鲍勃之间会发生这场大争吵。
And I remember just not having an answer for anybody.
我记得我没有为任何人提供答案。
I used to tell them to ask Dave.
我曾经告诉他们去问戴夫。
I had no idea.
我不知道。
And I remember that, all of a sudden, he just was completely bent on turning everyone against me, the whole school.
我记得，突然之间，他一心要让每个人都反对我，整个学校。
And he did it very well.
他做得很好。
He was the one who formed the "I hate--" they used to call me Cooz then-- and he was the one who formed the "I hate Cooz" club.
他是“我讨厌——”他们当时叫我库兹的人——也是他组建了“我讨厌库兹”俱乐部的人。
He never did anything to me himself.
他本人从未对我做过任何事。
He would never come up to me and make fun of me.
他永远不会来找我取笑我。
He would never come up to me and hit me.
他永远不会走到我身边打我。
But he would just get everyone else to do it for him.
但他只会让其他人为他做这件事。
I remember one time in the lunchroom, Sam saying, have you ever been caught masturbating?
我记得有一次在餐厅，萨姆说，你有没有被抓到自慰过？
And of course, either answer is-- you damn yourself if you answer yes or if you answer no. And I remembered hearing Dave tell him to ask me that.
当然，任何一个答案都是——如果你回答“是”或“否”，你就该死。我记得听到戴夫让他问我这个问题。
He was just able to organize people into these different factions.
他只是能够将人们组织成这些不同的派别。
He was able to shift their focus really well.
他能够很好地转移他们的注意力。
But from a really guarded position far away.
但距离真正戒备森严的位置很远。
He would just say, go over to Cooz and just shove him into a locker.
他只会说，走到库兹身边，把他塞进储物柜里。
And they'd go do it.
他们会去做的。
People would make fun of the way that I chewed at lunch.
人们会取笑我午餐时咀嚼的方式。
People would make fun of the way that I laughed.
人们会取笑我笑的方式。
People would make fun of the way that I coughed, that I sneezed.
人们会取笑我咳嗽、打喷嚏的方式。
But that makes it even sound less violent than it was.
但这使得它听起来比以前更加暴力。
It was just a mocking.
那只是一种嘲讽。
It was a very pointed mocking on everyone's part.
这对每个人来说都是非常尖锐的嘲讽。
I remember sitting alone at the lunch table with no one to talk to and just wanting so badly for no one to turn their attention to me because I knew that the attention would be negative.
我记得独自坐在午餐桌上，没有人可以说话，我非常希望没有人将注意力转向我，因为我知道这种关注会是负面的。
I remember just not understanding what was going on.
我记得我只是不明白发生了什么事。
I had been in such a sweet position with this person.
我和这个人的关系非常好。
We had such a good friendship and then all of a sudden everyone had just turned against me.
我们有如此好的友谊，但突然间每个人都开始反对我。
That was the worst period, I think, of my entire life, was that period.
我认为那是我一生中最糟糕的时期。
I used to go home from school and cry after school.
我以前放学回家后总是哭。
I used to go to my dog and hug my dog and say, you are my only friend in the world.
我常常走到我的狗身边，拥抱我的狗，说，你是我在世界上唯一的朋友。
I remember one thing that he did was-- there was this guy, Mike, in my class.
我记得他做的一件事是——我班上有一个人，迈克。
And Mike was, what we called in my hometown, a scummer, which meant that he was on welfare.
迈克是我们家乡所说的渣男，这意味着他靠救济金生活。
He perhaps didn't have a pair of pants for every day of the week.
他可能一周中的每一天都没有一条裤子。
He was very smart, which was a strike against him at that age.
他很聪明，这对他那个年纪来说是一种打击。
And he just didn't fit in.
而他就是不适合。
He was a real geek.
他是一个真正的极客。
And so Dave organized this fight between Mike and I, a fist fight to prove who was the bigger faggot.
所以戴夫组织了我和迈克之间的这场战斗，一场拳头大战，以证明谁是更大的基佬。
Whoever would lose was the bigger faggot.
谁输了谁就是更大的基佬。
And he positioned us, he spun it so there was no way I could not fight.
他给我们定位，他旋转球，所以我不可能不战斗。
If I didn't have this fight, then things would just get worse for me.
如果我没有这场战斗，那么事情对我来说只会变得更糟。
Things would get worse.
事情会变得更糟。
Mike was at the bottom of the barrel.
迈克处于桶底。
And I was there with him.
我和他在一起。
And Dave had to prove that I was below him.
戴夫必须证明我低于他。
And so he organized this whole fight.
所以他组织了整场战斗。
And everyone in the class was like, are you going to fight Mike?
班上的每个人都说，你要和迈克打架吗？
Are you going to fight Mike?
你要和迈克打架吗？
And I finally just conceded and I conceded to fight him.
最后我承认了，我承认和他打架。
And Dave organized the whole event.
戴夫组织了整个活动。
It was to happen at this playground.
事情就发生在这个操场上。
And we went.
我们去了。
And he tried to get this whole audience to come and see it.
他试图让所有观众都来观看。
Unfortunately, nobody came but him.
不幸的是，除了他之外，没有人来。
Well, I guess, fortunately.
嗯，我想，幸运的是。
Nobody came but him and one other person.
除了他和另外一个人之外，没有人来。
So Mike and I went there.
于是我和迈克就去了那里。
And neither of us wanted to fight each other.
我们都不想互相争斗。
Neither of us had any reason in the world to fight each other.
我们俩都没有任何理由互相争斗。
So I just remember standing there facing him just laughing, just like, what are we supposed to do?
所以我只记得站在那儿面对他只是笑，就像，我们应该做什么？
We're standing here.
我们站在这里。
We've been forced into this just to save our own souls.
我们被迫这样做只是为了拯救我们自己的灵魂。
And now we have to inflict pain on each other.
现在我们必须给彼此带来痛苦。
And we stood there for the longest time and Dave kept trying to push us into fighting.
我们在那里站了最长的时间，戴夫一直试图推动我们打架。
He was saying, come on, just throw a punch, just throw a punch.
他说，来吧，就打一拳，就打一拳。
Just start.
就开始吧。
And we waited for the longest time.
而我们等的时间也是最长的。
And then finally, I was just like, this is ridiculous.
最后，我觉得这太荒谬了。
So I went up and I shoved him.
于是我就上去推了他。
And then we started to fight.
然后我们就开始吵架了。
And we weren't really into fighting.
而且我们并不真正喜欢打架。
But we had to do it then.
但我们当时必须这样做。
And I pushed him at one point and he fell backwards and he hurt his wrist.
我一度推了他一下，他向后摔倒，手腕受伤了。
And I got on top of him and I held his wrist.
我骑在他身上，握住他的手腕。
And I remember saying to him, do you give up?
我记得我对他说，你放弃吗？
And he wouldn't give up.
他不会放弃。
And I was holding his wrists back.
我拉住了他的手腕。
And each time, I kept asking him if he was going to give up.
每一次，我都不停地问他是否要放弃。
And he kept saying, no. And each time he'd say no I'd bend his wrist back a little bit more.
他一直说，不。每次他拒绝时，我都会把他的手腕向后弯曲一点。
And he was just crying in pain.
而他只是痛苦地哭泣。
And I kept saying, I'm going to bend it back.
我一直说，我要把它弯回来。
I'm going to bend it back.
我要把它弯回来。
I'm going to bend it back, thinking, I don't want to break this person's wrist.
我要把它弯回去，心想，我不想折断这个人的手腕。
I have no reason to break this person's wrist.
我没有理由打断这个人的手腕。
And I was faced at that moment with either giving up and just getting kicked even more or going ahead with really hurting this person and hoping that it would save me in some way.
在那一刻，我面临着要么放弃，然后被踢得更多，要么继续真正伤害这个人，并希望这能以某种方式拯救我。
And I broke his wrist.
我打断了他的手腕。
He came in the next day, into school, with a cast on.
第二天，他戴着石膏来到学校。
I don't know how his family paid for his cast.
我不知道他的家人是如何支付他的演员费用的。
And everybody saw that and said, you idiot, Cooz, what did you do?
每个人都看到了，都说，你这个白痴，库兹，你做了什么？
You idiot.
你这个白痴。
And they just-- it made it even worse for me.
他们只是——这让我的情况变得更糟。
It just made it worse.
这只会让事情变得更糟。
Dave, he had no reason for this.
戴夫，他没有理由这样做。
He didn't understand it himself, I don't think.
我想他自己也不明白。
It was a complete visceral reaction to an allegation of homosexuality, I think.
我认为，这是对同性恋指控的完全本能反应。
And so he, in order to preserve himself, just pointed at someone else and said, they're the one.
所以他为了保全自己，就指着别人说，就是他们了。
And everybody just turned with him.
每个人都跟着他转身。
And I think that people that age are looking for things like this.
我认为这个年龄段的人正在寻找这样的东西。
Those are grades where you are forming factions.
这些是你正在形成派系的年级。
You're forming groups.
你们正在组建小组。
And the easiest way to be part of a group is to just point at somebody else, I think, and say, I'm not like him.
我想，成为一个群体的一员最简单的方法就是指着别人说，我和他不一样。
I went to the Pennsylvania Governor's School for the Arts in my junior year, the summer between my junior and senior year.
我在大三时，即大三和大四之间的夏天，去了宾夕法尼亚州州长艺术学院。
And I remember very clearly, there was a moment at Governor's school where I thought that the clouds just cleared and everything became possible.
我记得很清楚，有那么一刻，在州长学校，我觉得乌云刚刚散去，一切都变得可能了。
It was after lunch and we were going out of the cafeteria and I'd forgotten my bag in the cafeteria.
那是午饭后，我们正要走出自助餐厅，我把包忘在自助餐厅了。
And I went and I said, oh just wait for me one second.
我走过去说，哦，等我一秒钟。
I just want to go get my bag.
我只想去拿我的包。
And I went down to the cafeteria and I got my bag.
我去了自助餐厅，拿了我的包。
And I came back up and they were still there waiting for me.
我回来了，他们还在那里等我。
And I remember, so distinctly, remembering-- oh my god, these people, they waited for me.
我记得，如此清晰，记得——天哪，这些人，他们在等我。
That meant so much to me because I felt like, there are people out there.
这对我来说意义重大，因为我觉得外面还有人。
And I'm not this idiot.
我不是这个白痴。
I'm not this geek.
我不是这个极客。
I'm not a person who everyone should hate.
我不是一个让所有人都讨厌的人。
I'm actually a pretty good human being and people like me.
我实际上是一个很好的人，也有像我这样的人。
Bob Cucuzza is now a filmmaker and does theatre in New York.
鲍勃·库库扎 (Bob Cucuzza) 现在是一名电影制片人，并在纽约从事戏剧工作。
He spoke with Paul Tough.
他与保罗·图赫进行了交谈。
And then literally, within 24 hours of at least, of putting our name forward, we were hit with a withering attack.
然后，从字面上看，至少在我们提出名字后的 24 小时内，我们遭到了毁灭性的攻击。
Indeed you were.
确实你是。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。