159: Mother’s Day - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #159 | May 12, 2000 159: Mother’s Day Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 159 集 | 2000 年 5 月 12 日 159：母亲节 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass It's This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
There's a story by Tillie Olsen in which a mother of five stands at an ironing board contemplating a note from a teacher asking her to come in and discuss her oldest daughter.
蒂莉·奥尔森（Tillie Olsen）写过一个故事，其中一位五个孩子的母亲站在熨衣板前，思考着一张老师要求她进来讨论她大女儿的便条。
"She's a youngster who needs help," the note says, "and whom I'm deeply interested in helping." The mother mulls this over.
“她是一个需要帮助的年轻人，”纸条上写道，“我非常有兴趣帮助她。”母亲仔细考虑了一下。
Should she go in?
她该进去吗？
What is there even to say about her daughter's life?
对于女儿的一生，还有什么好说的呢？
Here's Tillie Olsen, reading.
蒂莉·奥尔森正在阅读。
Even if I came, what good would it do?
就算我来了又有什么用呢？
You think because I'm her mother, I have a key?
你以为因为我是她妈妈，我就有钥匙吗？
Or that, in some way, you could use me as the key?
或者说，在某种程度上，你可以用我作为钥匙？
She's lived for 19 years.
她已经活了19年了。
There's all that life that has happened outside of me, beyond me.
所有的生活都发生在我之外，超越我。
And when is there time to remember, to sift, to weigh, to estimate, to total?
什么时候有时间去记忆、筛选、权衡、估计、总计？
I'll start, and there will be an interruption, and I'll have to gather it all together again.
我会开始，但会出现中断，我必须再次将所有内容收集起来。
Or I'll become engulfed with all I did or did not do, with what should have been, and what cannot be helped.
或者我会被我做过或没做过的事情、本该做的事情和无能为力的事情所吞没。
And then, as she stands there ironing, she reviews her daughter's life, point by point, from the baby she was through all sorts of troubles and mistakes.
然后，当她站在那里熨衣服时，她一点一点地回顾女儿的一生，从她还是个婴儿的时候起，经历了各种各样的麻烦和错误。
A working mother trying to be there for her children, trying and learning as she goes, making it up as she goes.
一位职业母亲试图陪伴她的孩子，边走边尝试和学习，边走边弥补。
Until, at the end, she finally comes to this beautiful passage, this almost encyclopedic list, of everything which can happen with one's children.
直到最后，她终于看到了这段美丽的段落，这几乎是百科全书式的清单，列出了孩子身上可能发生的一切。
I will never total it all.
我永远不会把这一切全部加起来。
I'll never come in to say she was a child seldom smiled at.
我绝不会进来说她是一个很少被人微笑的孩子。
Her father left me before she was a year old.
她的父亲在她一岁之前就离开了我。
I had to work her first six years when there was work, or I sent her home and to his relatives.
她的前六年，只要有工作，我就得帮她干活，或者我就把她送回家，送到他的亲戚那里。
She was dark, and thin, and foreign-looking, in a world where the prestige went to blondness, and curly hair, and dimples.
在这个以金发、卷发和酒窝为荣的世界里，她又黑又瘦，长得像外国人。
She was slow where glibness was prized.
在重视油嘴滑舌的地方，她动作迟缓。
She was a child of anxious, not proud love.
她是一个焦虑的、而不是骄傲的爱的孩子。
We were poor and could not afford for her the soil of easy growth.
我们很穷，无法为她提供容易生长的土壤。
I was a young mother.
我是一位年轻的母亲。
I was a distracted mother.
我是一个心烦意乱的母亲。
There were the other children pushing up, demanding.
其他孩子也纷纷上前，提出要求。
Her younger sisters seemed to be all that she was not.
她的妹妹们似乎与她不同。
There were years she did not let me touch her.
有很多年她不让我碰她。
She kept too much in herself.
她自己心里藏着太多东西。
Her life was such that she had to keep too much in herself.
她的生活就是这样，她不得不把太多的东西藏在心里。
My wisdom came too late.
我的智慧来得太晚了。
She is a child of her age, of depression, of war, of fear.
她是一个与她同龄的孩子，她经历过抑郁、战争和恐惧。
Let her be.
随她吧。
So, all that is in her will not bloom, but in how many does it?
那么，她身上的一切都不会绽放，但有多少呢？
There is still enough left to live by.
剩下的钱还够生活的。
Only help her to know, help make it so there is cause for her to know that she is more than this dress on the ironing board, helpless before the iron.
只有帮助她知道，帮助她做到这一点，这样她才有理由知道，她不仅仅是熨衣板上的这件衣服，在熨斗面前无助。
Being a parent is an improvisation and things go wrong.
作为父母是一种即兴发挥，事情会出错。
As in any daily undertaking, things go wrong.
正如任何日常工作一样，难免会出现问题。
And, in the end, so many mothers feel unappreciated.
最终，很多母亲都感到自己不受重视。
This is, as you'd might expect, a mother.
正如你所料，这是一位母亲。
In fact, it's my mother, Shirley Glass.
事实上，这是我的母亲雪莉·格拉斯。
She is a psychologist in Baltimore.
她是巴尔的摩的一名心理学家。
Mom, I was wondering if you've noticed that every year since we started This American Life four and a half years ago we've done a Father's Day show, but we've never done a Mother's Day show.
妈妈，我想知道你是否注意到，自从四年半前我们开始《美国生活》以来，每年我们都会举办父亲节节目，但我们从未举办过母亲节节目。
Actually, I never noticed it until you pointed it out to me.
事实上，我从来没有注意到这一点，直到你向我指出为止。
OK.
好的。
Shirley Glass I guess I've become accustomed to ignoring those kind of slights.
雪莉·格拉斯（Shirley Glass）：我想我已经习惯了忽视这些轻视。
[LAUGHING] Oh, really?
[笑]哦，真的吗？
Shirley Glass Well, I have a generic answer for that.
雪莉·格拉斯（Shirley Glass）：好吧，我对此有一个通用的答案。
You do?
你做？
Shirley Glass Yeah, why you've done Father's Day shows and you haven't done a Mother's Day show is because mothers are taken for granted.
雪莉·格拉斯（Shirley Glass）：是的，为什么你做了父亲节秀而没有做母亲节秀，是因为母亲被认为是理所当然的。
Like, how do you mean?
比如说，你是什么意思？
Shirley Glass Well, for example, I knew somebody who told me that the summer that he was at camp and his mother wrote to him every single day.
雪莉·格拉斯（Shirley Glass）：例如，我认识一个人告诉我，他在夏令营的那个夏天，他的母亲每天都给他写信。
And his father wrote to him once.
他的父亲曾经写信给他。
And he kept the letter that his father sent for the rest of his life because it meant so much.
他一生都保留着父亲寄来的信，因为这封信意义重大。
And he didn't keep any of the letters that his mother sent.
他母亲寄来的信他也没有保留。
Well, is that because it was so surprising that his father would be emotionally expressive?
嗯，是因为他的父亲竟然会如此情绪化地表达自己太令人惊讶了吗？
Whereas his mother was always emotionally expressive?
而他的母亲却总是情绪激动？
Exactly.
确切地。
The child is so secure with the mother that he doesn't need to hold onto a souvenir or a symbol that she cares about him.
孩子对母亲非常有安全感，因此他不需要保留母亲关心他的纪念品或象征。
Hm.
嗯。
Shirley Glass That's what I just said, that we take the mothers for granted.
雪莉·格拉斯（Shirley Glass）这就是我刚才所说的，我们认为母亲是理所当然的。
Well, obviously, some mothers believe that mothers are taken for granted.
嗯，显然，有些母亲认为母亲被视为理所当然。
Today on our program, we try to right this terrible wrong in our small, little way, here on the radio, with stories for Mother's Day.
今天，在我们的节目中，我们试图以我们微小的方式纠正这个可怕的错误，在广播中讲述母亲节的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, you're listening to This American Life's Mother's Day show.
您正在收听来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台的 This American Life 母亲节节目。
Our program today in three acts.
我们今天的节目分三幕。
Act One, "She Said, She Said," in which Alex Blumberg conducts an investigation, perhaps the first ever, with people who compulsively imitate their mother's voices in everyday conversation, well into adulthood.
第一幕“她说，她说”中，亚历克斯·布隆伯格对那些在日常谈话中强迫性地模仿母亲声音的人进行了一项调查，这可能是有史以来的第一次，直到成年。
Act Two, "Are You My Mommy?" When a 14-year-old was sent into adult prison in Florida, the state did such a terrible job taking care of her that, incredibly, several women, an embezzler, a convicted murderer, and some thieves, stepped in to mother her.
第二幕“你是我妈妈吗？”当一名 14 岁的女孩被送进佛罗里达州的成人监狱时，该州对她的照顾非常糟糕，令人难以置信的是，几名妇女、一名贪污犯、一名被定罪的杀人犯和一些小偷介入照顾她。
That story from writer Alex Kotlowitz.
这个故事来自作家亚历克斯·科特洛维茨。
Act Three, "Mom Music." Beau O'Reilly confronts his mother about her dirty little secret with Johnny Cash.
第三幕，“音乐妈妈”。博·奥莱利向母亲质问她与约翰尼·卡什的肮脏小秘密。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "She Said, She Said." There are, as far as we can tell, no scientific studies proving what we're about to assert to you.
第一幕，“她说，她说。”据我们所知，没有任何科学研究可以证明我们将要向您断言的内容。
Our evidence is anecdotal and preliminary.
我们的证据是轶事和初步的。
We invite the scientific community to pick up the thread where we leave it.
我们邀请科学界继续我们留下的线索。
Our findings, thus far, are these.
到目前为止，我们的发现如下。
We have discovered that there is a vast subset of American families that crosses all social classes in which the children do imitations of their mothers all the time, even into adulthood.
我们发现，在跨越所有社会阶层的很大一部分美国家庭中，孩子们一直在模仿他们的母亲，甚至到了成年。
What does it mean?
这是什么意思？
Alex Blumberg tells all.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格讲述了一切。
In my un-scientific survey I can tell you this, it's always people who have close relationships with their mothers, whose mothers are still powerful forces for them, who end up imitating them.
在我的非科学调查中我可以告诉你，总是那些与母亲关系密切、母亲对他们来说仍然是强大力量的人最终会模仿他们。
What's always striking is how vivid these imitations are.
令人印象深刻的是这些模仿是多么生动。
My name is Gianofer.
我叫贾诺弗。
I'm from Milwaukee.
我来自密尔沃基。
And the typical conversation with my mother, or my favorite thing to imitate her, is in the morning, when we were children, she'd come in the room to wake us up.
与我母亲的典型对话，或者我最喜欢模仿她的事情，是在早上，当我们还是孩子的时候，她会走进房间叫醒我们。
And there were three girls in the room.
而且房间里还有三个女孩。
And so she would come in every morning and she would first wake up my sister, Sharon.
所以她每天早上都会进来，首先叫醒我的妹妹莎伦。
And Sharon was the hardest one to wake up.
而莎伦是最难醒来的一个。
And so, every morning, she would come in the room and she'd go, "Sharon.
所以，每天早上，她都会走进房间，然后说：“莎伦。
Sharon?
莎伦？
Sharon?
莎伦？
Sharon.
莎伦.
Sharon.
莎伦.
Sharon!
莎伦！
Sharon, I know you hear me talking to you, Sharon.
莎伦，我知道你听到我在跟你说话，莎伦。
Sharon, get up.
莎伦，站起来。
Sharon, I'm going to wake up the rest of the babies trying to wake you.
莎伦，我要去叫醒其他的婴儿，试图叫醒你。
Sharon, get up.
莎伦，站起来。
Lord, I don't know how you don't want to get-- Sharon.
主啊，我不知道你怎么不想——莎伦。
I know you-- Sharon?
我认识你——莎伦？
I wish you would get out of that bed!
我希望你能从床上起来！
Girl, get up!" And that was every morning.
姑娘，起来吧！”那是每天早上。
And it would always start off very sweet.
而且一开始总是非常甜蜜。
"Sharon?
“莎朗？
Sharon.
莎伦.
Sharon.
莎伦.
Sharon." And it's not Sha-ron, it's, Sharn.
莎伦。”这不是莎伦，而是莎恩。
Sharn Sharn.
沙恩沙恩。
She talked all the time.
她一直在说话。
If you would say that, you know, "I'm studying now." "Oh, you studying?
如果你这么说，你知道，“我现在正在学习。” “哦，你在学习吗？
What you studying?
你学什么？
Let me look at that book.
让我看看那本书。
And we didn't have books.
而且我们没有书。
See, we didn't have books like this when I was in school, Jonna.
你看，我上学的时候我们没有这样的书，乔娜。
We had a little, old slate.
我们有一块小小的旧石板。
And you'd put your name on there with some chalk.
你会用粉笔把你的名字写在那里。
And then, when you were done, you'd just wipe it right off.
然后，当你完成后，你只需将其擦掉即可。
That's how that worked back then, Gianofer."
这就是当时的情况，贾诺弗。”
Gianofer's been imitating her mother since she was four or five years old.
贾诺弗从四五岁起就开始模仿她的母亲。
She says, originally, it was to be mean, to mock her.
她说，原本是为了刻薄，为了嘲笑她。
Her mother talked so country, she says.
她说，她母亲说话很乡村。
But then, she started imitating her mother for a different reason after her father got sick.
但后来，在父亲生病后，她出于不同的原因开始模仿母亲。
She was different, her mother was different.
她不一样，她的母亲也不一样。
Her voice actually changed during that time period.
在那段时间里，她的声音确实发生了变化。
It came not so much out of her throat, but from her heart.
这并不是从她的喉咙里发出来的，而是从她的心里发出的。
Because, I think, she thought that everything she would say, particularly to him, may be the last thing.
因为，我认为，她认为她所说的一切，尤其是对他说的，可能是最后一件事。
And so her voice actually changed during that time period.
所以她的声音在那段时间确实发生了变化。
Her voice got very low.
她的声音变得很低。
It wasn't, "How you doing Gianofer?" It was, you know, "Gianofer, how are you," because everything was just, you know, "Lord, don't know." Everything was just so hard and so trying.
不是“贾诺弗，你好吗？”你知道，那是“贾诺弗，你好吗”，因为一切都只是，你知道，“主啊，我不知道。”一切都是那么艰难、那么艰难。
"And I just--"
“而我只是——”
And then she would always say, that she hardly ever said before, "I just don't know.
然后她总是会说，她以前几乎从未说过，“我只是不知道。
You know I don't know what," you know, "he's just getting so sick lately." And then everything started to sound like that.
你知道我不知道是什么，”你知道，“他最近病得很厉害。”然后一切听起来都像那样。
Even if I call her now, "How you doing?" "Well, I'm doing fine.
即使我现在打电话给她，“你好吗？” “嗯，我很好。
Everything's all right." And she whispers a lot more now.
一切都好。”她现在低声说话的次数更多了。
Even though people she's talking about aren't in the house, she'll whisper.
即使她谈论的人不在屋子里，她也会小声说话。
"I think she's going to come over tomorrow and help me with my puzzles."
“我想她明天会过来帮我解答谜题。”
During the whole, I would say, last year of his life she was taking care of him, but we were taking care of her.
我想说，在他生命的最后一年里，她一直在照顾他，但我们也在照顾她。
So you spent a lot of time talking to her and talking to my siblings about her.
所以你花了很多时间和她说话，也和我的兄弟姐妹谈论她。
So, I think, when we got to the point where we were always calling each other-- and my phone bill was, like, $300 or $400 during this whole time period, month after month-- we would imitate her to each other.
所以，我想，当我们总是互相打电话时——而我的电话账单在整个时间段里，一个月又一个月，大约是 300 或 400 美元——我们会互相模仿她。
But it was more of a way to relay this information in a way that didn't hurt so bad.
但这更多的是一种以一种不会造成太大伤害的方式传递这些信息的方式。
It was easy for me to call my brother up, or my sister up, and say, "You know, Toots doesn't like anything." We call her Toots.
对我来说，打电话给我的兄弟或姐姐并说：“你知道，图茨不喜欢任何东西。”我们叫她图茨。
You know, Toots is complaining about this.
你知道，图茨正在抱怨这一点。
"And the grass ain't cut.
“而且草还没有被割掉。
Now, I wanted my grass cut at 4 o'clock.
现在，我想在四点钟割草。
You know, David didn't show up until 4:30.
你知道，大卫直到四点三十分才出现。
I had to push that lawnmower by myself." It wasn't so hard to hear then.
我必须自己推割草机。”那时听起来并不难。
I always wonder, and I think my siblings always wonder, is it as bad as she says it is, or isn't it?
我总是想知道，我想我的兄弟姐妹也总是想知道，事情真的像她说的那么糟糕吗？
And so, by imitating her and trying to get it as close to it as possible, it is conveying more information, you know?
因此，通过模仿她并尝试使其尽可能接近，它传达了更多信息，你知道吗？
"David didn't cut that grass til 4:30," is a lot different than, "Lord, David didn't cut that grass til 4:30.
“大卫直到 4:30 才割草”与“主啊，大卫直到 4:30 才割草”有很大不同。
I just don't know what I'm going to do." When her voice is like that, it's just like, oh my, somebody get there now.
我只是不知道我要做什么。”当她的声音是这样的时候，就像是，天哪，有人到了。
But if it's, "I don't know why that boy didn't cut that grass," she's fine.
但如果是“我不知道那个男孩为什么不割草”，她就没事。
She's complaining, she's fine.
她在抱怨，她很好。
In our family, we always imitated our mother to each other.
在我们家里，我们总是互相模仿我们的母亲。
Another thing I can tell you, if one person in the family imitates the Mom, everybody does.
我可以告诉你的另一件事是，如果家里有人模仿妈妈，那么每个人都会模仿。
Take Julia Sweeney's family.
以朱莉娅·斯威尼的家人为例。
It was actually a main source of bonding between the kids, of us telling each other stories of something she said or did to each other.
这实际上是孩子们之间联系的主要来源，我们互相讲述她对彼此所说或所做的事情的故事。
OK.
好的。
For example?
例如？
Julia Sweeney My sister, Meg, who lives in Japan, if she and I are talking about my mother, she'll say, "Well, I called Mom and Dad last week, and Dad's reading more books about dogs.
朱莉娅·斯威尼（Julia Sweeney） 我住在日本的妹妹梅格（Meg），如果她和我谈论我的母亲，她会说：“嗯，我上周给爸爸妈妈打电话了，爸爸读了更多关于狗的书。
And he's still considering getting a dog, and we had a great talk about that.
他仍在考虑养一只狗，我们对此进行了很好的讨论。
And then Mom said, 'Well, I don't know why you chose to move 10,000 miles away.
然后妈妈说，‘好吧，我不知道你为什么选择搬到一万英里之外。
A person who decided to move 10,000 miles away from their family must have some reasons for moving.
一个人决定搬到远离家人一万英里的地方，一定有一些搬家的原因。
And you should think about that, why you need to be 10,000 miles away.'"
你应该考虑一下，为什么你需要在 10,000 英里之外。”
[LAUGHS] Julia Sweeney And then we'll laugh because one of the reasons you are 10,000 miles away is because someone near you could be saying things like that to you.
[笑] Julia Sweeney 然后我们会笑，因为你在 10,000 英里之外的原因之一是因为你附近的人可能会对你说这样的话。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
My mom used to do these things like, she had weird, confusing-- it's kind of like with the money thing-- confusing gift.
我妈妈过去常常做这样的事情，比如她有奇怪的、令人困惑的——这有点像金钱的事情——令人困惑的礼物。
Like, she would say, "For your birthday, I'm going to give you $50 towards that $200 microwave I want you to have."
就像，她会说，“在你生日那天，我将给你 50 美元，购买我想让你拥有的价值 200 美元的微波炉。”
[LAUGHTER] Julia Sweeney And then you'd say, "Well," [LAUGHING] "Then I have to spend $150 on the microwave, and I don't even want that microwave." And she'll say, "No, I've checked out all the microwaves.
[笑] Julia Sweeney 然后你会说，“好吧，”[笑]“然后我必须花 150 美元买微波炉，而我什至不想要那个微波炉。”她会说：“不，我已经检查了所有微波炉。
I've gone to Sears.
我去了西尔斯。
I've gone to The Bon.
我去了邦。
I've gone everywhere.
我到处都去了。
This is the microwave for you to have.
这是您拥有的微波炉。
But I have a budget on your birthday for $50.
但我在你生日那天的预算是 50 美元。
So I thought, if I put down the first $50, you could pay it off over time.
所以我想，如果我先存下 50 美元，你可以随着时间的推移还清。
And then that would be my birthday gift to you."
那么这将是我送给你的生日礼物。”
[LAUGHS] Julia Sweeney I think part of it is to offset what may be uncomfortable with a funny way of imitating something that, if you weren't imitating, it might be just plain upsetting otherwise.
[笑]朱莉娅·斯威尼（Julia Sweeney）我认为其中一部分是为了抵消用一种有趣的方式模仿某些东西可能会带来的不舒服，如果你不模仿，否则可能会让人感到不舒服。
Really?
真的吗？
Julia Sweeney Well, you know, it's just easier because it distances you from the person, and then you can imitate them and then look at them as a funny way.
朱莉娅·斯威尼：嗯，你知道，这更容易，因为它使你与那个人保持距离，然后你可以模仿他们，然后以一种有趣的方式看待他们。
In some ways what your brain is saying is, "I'm not them.
在某些方面，你的大脑在说的是：“我不是他们。
I'm so not them.
我太不是他们了。
I'll make a character that's them and say what they would say as them.
我会塑造一个他们的角色，并说出他们会说的话。
That's how much I'm not them." You know?
这就是我与他们的不同之处。”你知道？
Like that.
就这样。
Julia Sweeney is an actress.
朱莉娅·斯威尼是一名演员。
And for years, when she was just starting out, she would assume the character of her mom in sketches with The Groundlings Comedy Troupe in LA.
多年来，当她刚刚起步时，她会在洛杉矶的接地喜剧团的小品中扮演她妈妈的角色。
But, when her mom came to see the shows, she'd pull the sketches.
但是，当她妈妈来看演出时，她会画草图。
It was the same when she was on Saturday Night Live .
她参加《周六夜现场》时也是如此。
One skit was based on this idea.
一部短剧就是基于这个想法。
My mother would always tell-- it's actually, it's so funny to me.
我妈妈总是告诉我——事实上，这对我来说太有趣了。
She tells you the story of a movie from the point of view of the character who is most like her in age and point of view in the movie, no matter how small that character is in the movie.
她从电影中与她年龄和观点最相似的角色的角度来告诉你电影的故事，无论这个角色在电影中有多小。
So, if it was Romeo and Juliet, say, she would say, "I saw a movie about this nurse.
所以，如果是罗密欧与朱丽叶，她会说，“我看了一部关于这位护士的电影。
And she takes care of this girl, who's 14, who's very rambunctious and hard to manage.
她还照顾这个14岁的女孩，她非常暴躁，很难管理。
And she's had a hard time controlling her.
而且她很难控制她。
And she runs off with a boy that no one wants her to be with.
她和一个没有人愿意和她在一起的男孩私奔了。
And everyone tells her she doesn't know what she's talking about.
每个人都告诉她她不知道自己在说什么。
And the nurse is very concerned about this girl.
而护士也很关心这个女孩。
And, of course, they end up dead at the end."
当然，他们最后都死了。”
[LAUGHTER] Julia Sweeney And so I was going to do this on SNL.
[笑声] Julia Sweeney 所以我打算在 SNL 上做这个。
And then I just couldn't.
然后我就是做不到。
I was too nervous about-- I just didn't want her to see it.
我太紧张了——我只是不想让她看到。
I wanted to protect her.
我想保护她。
Eventually, Julia's mother did see herself on stage in Julia's one-woman show, God Said Ha!
最终，朱莉娅的母亲确实在朱莉娅的独女秀《上帝说哈！》的舞台上看到了自己。
Even after several years, her mother still recalls certain scenes she took offense at, which Julia understands.
即使几年后，她的母亲仍然记得她生气的某些场景，朱莉娅对此表示理解。
Mothers have feelings.
妈妈们都是有感情的。
On the other hand, I have to say it's a way of loving them and enjoying them, maybe, in the only way you can.
另一方面，我不得不说，这是一种爱他们并享受他们的方式，也许，这是你能做到的唯一方式。
Because I have a huge amount of love for my mother, and I really enjoy her, but one way I think I learned to enjoy her was to make her a character to me that was also funny.
因为我非常爱我的母亲，而且我真的很喜欢她，但我认为我学会欣赏她的一个方法就是让她成为一个对我来说也很有趣的角色。
And sometimes my mother says incredibly insightful, true things.
有时我母亲会说出令人难以置信的深刻见解和真实的话。
And maybe it was a way for me to feel more intimacy with her in some weird, inside-out, perverted way, by making her into a character, and then relating to her as that character, and, in some ways, even allowing that character to have really true insights.
也许这是一种让我以某种奇怪的、由内而外、变态的方式感受到与她更加亲密的方式，通过让她成为一个角色，然后将她与那个角色联系起来，在某些方面，甚至允许那个角色有真正的洞察力。
One of the paradoxes of imitating your mother is that you expose certain aspects of her personality in precise detail, or you simplify and make cartoon-ish her personality as a whole.
模仿你母亲的悖论之一是，你精确地暴露了她性格的某些方面，或者你简化了她的整体性格，使其变得卡通化。
Sarah Koenig, whose mother was born overseas and still has her British accent, says it's because the portrayals leave huge chunks out.
莎拉·科尼格的母亲出生在海外，仍然带有英国口音，她说这是因为这些描绘遗漏了很大一部分。
I think the character of my mother that I play is sort of more dotty and sort of talking all about, "Well, I went to the fish shop.
我认为我扮演的母亲角色有点古怪，总是在说：“嗯，我去了鱼店。
And they didn't have enough tuna, so I got the swordfish.
他们没有足够的金枪鱼，所以我买了旗鱼。
And I don't have the right-- it's so irritating," you know, this kind of bumbling, silly, English woman.
我没有权利——这太令人恼火了，”你知道，这种笨手笨脚、愚蠢的英国女人。
And she's actually not really like that.
而她实际上并不是那样的。
She is really impressive in what she's had to deal with in her life.
她在生活中所经历的事情确实令人印象深刻。
So I don't know if that comes through.
所以我不知道这是否能实现。
That's probably missing.
那可能是失踪了。
And I don't know how you make that come through.
我不知道你是如何做到这一点的。
I mean, I don't know if you can bring that out in any kind of dopey imitation of your mom.
我的意思是，我不知道你是否可以通过对你妈妈的任何愚蠢的模仿来表达这一点。
She's always trying to get you, or my brother, or my sister to do chores by-- she bills them as fun because we'll do it together.
她总是试图让你、我的兄弟或我的妹妹做家务——她认为这些事情很有趣，因为我们会一起做。
She'll say, "Oh, Sarah, can't you just help me in the garden a bit?" [LAUGHS] And I'll say, "Oh, Mom, please, I don't want to.
她会说：“哦，莎拉，你就不能在花园里帮我一下吗？” [笑]我会说，“哦，妈妈，拜托，我不想。
Can we do it a little later?" "Oh, Sarah, it's so much fun when we do it together." And she gets a lot of flack for that.
我们可以晚一点做吗？” “哦，莎拉，我们一起做真是太有趣了。”她因此受到了很多批评。
Because it's such a ruse, so clearly a ruse.
因为这是一个诡计，而且明显是一个诡计。
It's not fun.
这并不好玩。
And sometimes they were bad jobs.
有时他们的工作很糟糕。
"It's so much fun if we do it together."
“如果我们一起做的话会非常有趣。”
Oh, hello Alex.
哦，你好，亚历克斯。
Alex Blumberg Well, it seemed unfair not to consult the real protagonist of this story.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）好吧，不咨询这个故事的真正主角似乎不公平。
I called Sarah's mom, and it turns out she knows Sarah's imitation quite well.
我给莎拉的妈妈打了电话，结果她对莎拉的模仿很了解。
I would make my usual little homilies of when we were gardening.
当我们做园艺时，我会像往常一样做些小布道。
And I would try to entice them to help me and say, "Now, let's do it all together.
我会尽力吸引他们帮助我，并说：“现在，让我们一起做这件事。
It'll be such fun." [LAUGHS] And Sarah would say this back to me with a little slant.
这会很有趣。” [笑]莎拉会带着一点偏见对我说这句话。
And I realized that I was sounding absurd.
我意识到我的话听起来很荒谬。
Although, I wished they would come and help me.
尽管如此，我还是希望他们能来帮助我。
And I do think it's more fun when we do it all together.
我确实认为当我们一起做这一切时会更有趣。
[LAUGHTER] Alex Blumberg In fact, Sarah and her mother both remember a time when Sarah didn't do imitations, when she was too afraid of her mother to even attempt them.
[笑声] Alex Blumberg 事实上，莎拉和她的母亲都记得莎拉没有模仿的时候，当时她太害怕她的母亲甚至不敢尝试模仿。
And they both remember the exact moment when everything changed.
他们都记得一切发生变化的确切时刻。
My sister and I would fight, which we did all the time, loudly, violently occasionally.
我和姐姐会打架，我们一直这样做，有时大声地、暴力地打架。
And, one time, my sister and I were fighting horribly.
有一次，我和姐姐打得很厉害。
We must've been, like, 10 and 12, or nine, and then, nine and 12, or something.
我们一定是，比如，10岁和12岁，或者9岁，然后，9岁和12岁，或者其他什么。
I couldn't stand the wrangling any longer, the fighting.
我再也无法忍受争吵、打斗了。
It was endless and always, wrangling and fighting, until it drove their poor mother berserkers.
争吵和打斗永无休止，直到把他们可怜的母亲逼疯。
I remember exactly where it was in the house, in this tiny, little alcove where there was a phone.
我清楚地记得它在房子里的什么地方，在这个小小的壁龛里，那里有一部电话。
I mean, there wasn't even room for the three of us.
我的意思是，连我们三个人的空间都没有。
And my mother got so fed up that she grabbed my sister and me by the collar, kind of.
我妈妈实在受够了，她抓住了我和姐姐的衣领。
And then I threatened them.
然后我威胁他们。
And said that I would bang their heads together if they didn't stop.
还说如果他们再不停下来我就把他们的头撞在一起。
And they didn't stop, so I banged their heads together.
他们并没有停下来，所以我把他们的头撞在一起。
And then, what happened?
然后，发生了什么？
Sarah's Mother And they laughed.
莎拉的母亲 他们笑了。
That's what they did.
他们就是这么做的。
[LAUGHTER] Sarah Koenig And we started laughing, uncontrollably.
[笑声] Sarah Koenig 然后我们开始无法控制地大笑。
It was so absurd.
太荒唐了。
And you could see she wanted to laugh, but she couldn't.
你可以看出她想笑，但她笑不出来。
It was this critical moment of discipline, and she couldn't.
这是纪律的关键时刻，但她不能。
I was really shocked.
我真的很震惊。
I was guilty and horrified, and I was mad as well.
我感到内疚和恐惧，同时我也很生气。
I think the realization, at that moment, was we both knew that my mother was never going to discipline us the same way, ever again.
我想，在那一刻，我们都意识到，我母亲再也不会以同样的方式管教我们了。
Like, that there would be no more corporal punishment around the house because it was too absurd.
就像，家里不会再有体罚，因为这太荒谬了。
I became, from a feared and authoritarian mother, to a figure of fun.
我从一个令人畏惧、独裁的母亲，变成了一个有趣的人物。
And, suddenly, nothing worked.
突然间，一切都不起作用了。
I went from being afraid of her wrath to mocking her wrath.
我从害怕她的愤怒变成了嘲笑她的愤怒。
[LAUGHS] And she knows it, she talks about it.
[笑]她知道这一点，她也谈论这一点。
That's another thing she says all the time, "It's so awful." She says, "You wait 'til you have children and you go from a figure of fear to a figure of fun."
这是她经常说的另一件事，“太糟糕了。”她说：“等到你有了孩子，你就会从恐惧的形象变成有趣的形象。”
By making the things that I thought important, or wanted to make important, absurd, it freed her.
通过让我认为重要或想要重要的事情变得荒谬，这让她自由了。
I do think that.
我确实这么认为。
Well, you know, I'm a sort of overbearing person, and it's hard for them to get away.
嗯，你知道，我是一个霸道的人，他们很难摆脱。
Sarah, at one point, said to me when she came back from Moscow and I was trying to have her make tea.
莎拉有一次从莫斯科回来时对我说，我正试图让她泡茶。
And she didn't want to have tea.
而且她不想喝茶。
I have tea every afternoon, I'm a creature of habit.
我每天下午都喝茶，我是个有习惯的人。
And those sorts of habits irritate her, that I'm very habit-bound.
这些习惯让她很恼火，因为我很受习惯束缚。
And I said, "You're very disagreeable.
我说：“你真是令人讨厌。
You've come all the way from Moscow," and, et cetera.
你大老远从莫斯科赶来，”等等。
And she said, "Well, don't you understand?
她说：“好吧，你还不明白吗？
I can't bear to be here, and I want to be here all the time."
我无法忍受待在这里，但我想一直待在这里。”
I think that this form of diverting me from my purpose is very good for me because it makes me see myself in a different way.
我认为这种让我偏离目标的方式对我来说非常有好处，因为它让我以不同的方式看待自己。
And sometimes it's very loving, and it makes me relax and not want to control all the time.
有时它非常有爱，它让我放松，不想一直控制。
It's taken me a long time in order to give up that control, and it's a great relief.
我花了很长时间才放弃这种控制，这让我松了一口气。
I mean, keeping control is very exhausting, I think.
我的意思是，我认为保持控制是非常累人的。
You know how everyone--- there's this maxim that we all become our mother or we all become our parents.
你知道每个人都有这样的格言：我们都成为我们的母亲，或者我们都成为我们的父母。
And, generally, I really wouldn't mind becoming my mother.
一般来说，我真的不介意成为我的母亲。
I really like her, so I wouldn't mind becoming her.
我真的很喜欢她，所以我不介意成为她。
But I definitely need to edit her.
但我确实需要编辑她。
And, I think, if I imitate her and I'm making fun of her, those are the parts of her that I would edit out of myself.
而且，我认为，如果我模仿她并且取笑她，那么我会自己编辑掉她的那些部分。
If I have to become her in the long-run, then I'd like to not become those parts.
如果从长远来看我必须成为她，那么我不想成为那些部分。
If I can isolate those bits and repeat them frequently, perhaps I can avoid them.
如果我可以隔离这些片段并经常重复它们，也许我可以避免它们。
Which brings me to my last finding, imitating your mom doesn't mean you don't get along with her.
这引出了我的最后一个发现，模仿你妈妈并不意味着你和她相处不好。
Gianofer talks to her mom on the phone almost every day.
贾诺弗几乎每天都和她妈妈通电话。
Sarah recently went with her mom to a health spa in the desert for a week and actually found it relaxing.
莎拉最近和她妈妈去沙漠的健康水疗中心呆了一个星期，实际上发现它很放松。
And Julia just spent 10 days with her mother in Spokane and came back with nothing she wanted to mock.
朱莉娅刚刚在斯波坎和她的母亲一起度过了 10 天，回来时没有任何她想嘲笑的东西。
Alex Blumberg is one of the producers of This American Life .
亚历克斯·布隆伯格是《美国生活》的制片人之一。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "YOUR MOTHER'S HERE TO STAY" BY ALLAN SHERMAN]
[音乐播放 - 艾伦·谢尔曼的《你妈妈会留下来》]
Well, coming up, who makes a better mother, a convicted criminal behind bars or the state of Florida?
好吧，接下来，谁会成为一个更好的母亲，一个被判入狱的罪犯还是佛罗里达州？
Answers in a minute.
一分钟内给出答案。
From Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，来自国际公共广播电台。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同的故事。
Today's program, stories for Mother's Day.
今天的节目，母亲节的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, "Are You My Mommy?" Tougher sentencing laws all across the country have resulted in more teenagers being bumped up from juvenile court to adult court, where they get adult sentences.
第二幕“你是我妈妈吗？”全国各地更严厉的量刑法导致更多的青少年被从少年法庭提升到成人法庭，在那里他们被判成人刑。
And if you're, say, 14, and get sentenced to serious time like this, in most states, you will serve the first few years of your time in a juvenile detention center, someplace designed for young people, where they'll make you go to school, where there are facilities for you and people trained to deal with you.
如果你，比如说，14岁，被判处这样的严重刑期，在大多数州，你将在少年拘留中心服刑，这是一个专为年轻人设计的地方，他们会让你去上学，那里有为你提供的设施和受过训练的人员来处理你。
But, in some states, you can get sent, right away, to adult prison from the start.
但是，在某些州，您可能从一开始就被立即送往成人监狱。
7,000 young people are in adult prisons right now.
目前有 7,000 名年轻人被关押在成人监狱中。
And, of course, in that situation, the state has taken on the job of being your parent.
当然，在这种情况下，国家承担起了你父母的职责。
And it isn't always such a good parent.
而且并不总是那么好的父母。
Alex Kotlowitz has the story of one teenage girl who was sent to adult prison in Florida.
亚历克斯·科特洛维茨讲述了一名十几岁女孩被送往佛罗里达州成人监狱的故事。
And the prison did such a sloppy job caring for her-- it wasn't set up for this job after all-- that other prisoners stepped in to mother her.
监狱对她的照顾做得如此马虎——毕竟监狱不是为这项工作而设立的——以至于其他囚犯介入来照顾她。
Jessica Robinson is a slender girl with emerald green eyes, her hair on this day styled in a short bob.
杰西卡·罗宾逊是一个身材苗条的女孩，有着翠绿色的眼睛，今天她的头发剪成了短波波头。
Her forehead is marked by a light case of acne.
她的额头上有一层淡淡的痤疮。
We met in an office at the Dade Correctional Institution, a sprawling prison complex which lies on the edge of Florida's everglades.
我们在戴德惩教所的一间办公室里见面，这是一座位于佛罗里达州大沼泽地边缘的庞大监狱建筑群。
We sit in chairs knee-to-knee.
我们并肩坐在椅子上。
Jessica stretches, arching her back.
杰西卡伸了个懒腰，弓起背。
She answers many of my questions with the phrase, "Yes, but no." She cracks her knuckles.
她用“是的，但不是”这句话回答了我的许多问题。她掰响指关节。
She yawns.
她打哈欠。
She snatches a piece of paper from the desk and rolls it up tightly.
她从桌上抓起一张纸，紧紧地卷起来。
She picks lint off of my microphone.
她捡起我麦克风上的绒毛。
She tugs at the hem of her prison-issue navy blue skirt.
她拉扯监狱版海军蓝色裙子的下摆。
She is, to put it mildly, fidgety.
温和地说，她很烦躁。
"Were you scared when you first got to prison?" I asked.
“刚进监狱的时候，你害怕吗？”我问。
Going out with Barbara, mainly.
主要是和芭芭拉出去。
Because we used to go to the beach and stuff.
因为我们过去常常去海滩之类的。
Going shopping, oh I miss shopping.
去购物，哦，我想念购物。
Going to the movies, going to the pet shops, seeing the little puppies in the windows.
去看电影，去宠物店，看看橱窗里的小狗。
If you could get out tomorrow, what would be the first thing you'd do?
如果你明天可以出去，你会做的第一件事是什么？
I don't know, I'd probably go to Taco Bell and eat.
我不知道，我可能会去 Taco Bell 吃饭。
Go to Taco Bell?
去塔可钟吗？
Jessica Robinson Yep.
杰西卡·罗宾逊 是的。
I love Taco Bell.
我喜欢塔可钟。
Jessica is 16, the youngest prisoner here at Dade.
杰西卡 16 岁，是戴德监狱最年轻的囚犯。
She's a girl among women.
她是女人中的女孩。
She's been in prison, adult prison, for two years and is serving a nine-year sentence for armed robbery and kidnapping.
她已经在成人监狱里关了两年，并因武装抢劫和绑架罪被判九年徒刑。
But I'll get to that shortly.
但我很快就会谈到这一点。
In July of 1998, Jessica arrived at her first stop after the county jail, the Jefferson Correctional Institution, an all-women's prison near Tallahassee.
1998年7月，杰西卡到达县监狱之后的第一站，杰斐逊惩教所，塔拉哈西附近的一所女子监狱。
She was 14.
她14岁。
She had long, dirty blond hair that fell to the small of her back, and she was reed thin.
她有一头又长又脏的金发，一直垂到后腰，而且身材瘦削。
Shortly after her arrival, she met Suzanne Manning, who's serving 30 years for embezzlement.
抵达后不久，她遇到了因贪污罪被判入狱 30 年的苏珊·曼宁 (Suzanne Manning)。
The first time I ever saw Jessica, it was actually sitting in the child hall at Jefferson Correctional Institution.
我第一次见到杰西卡，是在杰斐逊惩教所的儿童大厅里。
There had been a lot of rumors going around about this little girl that was at Jefferson.
关于杰斐逊分校的这个小女孩，有很多谣言。
And Jefferson's considered kind of a tough prison.
杰斐逊监狱被认为是一座艰苦的监狱。
And there are three gun towers.
还有三座炮塔。
It's pretty intimidating.
这真是太吓人了。
It's very strict, you walk in a little yellow line on the side of the walkways.
非常严格，你要沿着人行道一侧的小黄线行走。
So, in the child hall, I had heard all the rumors.
于是，在儿童礼堂里，我就听到了所有的传闻。
Well, when I saw her walk by, I was in shock because, when you looked at Jessica-- and this was years ago now, a couple of years ago-- Jessica looked like a child.
好吧，当我看到她走过时，我很震惊，因为当你看着杰西卡时——那是几年前，几年前——杰西卡看起来像个孩子。
Her cheeks were rosy red, she still looked like she had baby fat on her.
她的脸颊红润，看上去还带着婴儿肥。
And she looked totally lost.
她看起来完全迷失了。
Not too long after I first saw her she moved into my dorm, in B Dorm.
我第一次见到她后不久，她就搬进了我的宿舍，B 宿舍。
And my heart just broke when I saw Jessica and I got to talk to her because she was a child, she was a baby, and she was thrown into this hellhole and didn't have a clue.
当我看到杰西卡时我的心都碎了，我必须和她说话，因为她还是个孩子，她还是个婴儿，她被扔进了这个地狱，没有任何线索。
Suzanne Manning's 39.
苏珊·曼宁 39.
She's a handsome woman.
她是个漂亮的女人。
Her six years in prison have turned her curly hair gray.
六年的牢狱生活让她的卷发变白了。
She became the first in a line of women to watch over the 14-year-old.
她成为第一个照顾这个 14 岁孩子的女性。
Well, I thought I would start helping her with some school work.
嗯，我想我应该开始帮助她做一些功课。
We went to the library, and they had kind of a children's section.
我们去了图书馆，他们有一个儿童区。
And Jessica ran over and got a book, The Little Mermaid , and wanted me to read that book to her.
杰西卡跑过来拿了一本书，《小美人鱼》，要我读那本书给她听。
And I think it brought out a lot of my maternal instincts because my son was 13 when I came to prison, and I missed a lot of those times with him.
我认为这激发了我的母性本能，因为我进监狱时我儿子 13 岁，我错过了很多和他在一起的时光。
So being able to sit and read with Jessica, it really did both of our hearts good.
所以能够和杰西卡一起坐下来读书，这确实对我们双方的心都有好处。
Jessica was born in Austin, Texas.
杰西卡出生于德克萨斯州奥斯汀。
Her father was a heroin addict and, according to Jessica's mother, Teresa, he physically abused her and their two daughters.
她的父亲是一名海洛因成瘾者，据杰西卡的母亲特蕾莎说，他对她和他们的两个女儿进行身体虐待。
When Jessica was three, Teresa fled from Miami to be near her parents.
杰西卡三岁时，特蕾莎逃离迈阿密去靠近她的父母。
There, she waitressed nights at Denny's and, by her own admission, wasn't a very patient mother.
在那里，她晚上在丹尼餐厅当女服务员，据她自己承认，她并不是一个很有耐心的母亲。
She and Jessica fought frequently.
她和杰西卡经常吵架。
When Jessica turned 13, she began to run away from home, once, staying away for three weeks.
杰西卡13岁那年，她开始离家出走，有一次，一待就是三个星期。
She was detained in a juvenile facility on three occasions, all a result of inter-family squabbles.
她曾三度被关押在青少年看守所，都是由于家庭间的争吵造成的。
Once she threw a plate at her older sister.
有一次，她向姐姐扔了一个盘子。
Another time she bit her mother on her hand.
还有一次，她咬了妈妈的手。
Teresa told me she'd called the juvenile authorities hoping she could get her daughter psychiatric help, but she had no health insurance.
特蕾莎告诉我，她曾给青少年当局打电话，希望能为女儿提供精神科帮助，但她没有健康保险。
Indeed, a psychologist who saw Jessica in detention recommended that she be placed in a residential program where she could receive therapy.
事实上，一位看到杰西卡被拘留的心理学家建议将她安置在一个寄宿项目中，在那里她可以接受治疗。
Nothing ever came of that suggestion.
这个建议没有任何结果。
She was released a few days later.
几天后她被释放。
At one point, Teresa sent Jessica to live with her grandparents, but Jessica quickly alienated them as well.
有一次，特蕾莎送杰西卡去和她的祖父母住在一起，但杰西卡很快也疏远了他们。
She argued with them, and they too called the authorities.
她与他们争论，他们也给当局打电话。
Jessica sought revenge.
杰西卡寻求复仇。
On a late Saturday night in July of 1997, Jessica, who was 13, and two other teenagers, a boy and a girl, showed up at her grandparent's.
1997 年 7 月的一个周六深夜，13 岁的杰西卡和另外两名青少年（一男一女）出现在她祖父母家。
Jessica and the other girl snatched jewelry and cash while the boy forced the two grandparents at knife point into a back room, ordering them to kneel on the floor.
杰西卡和另一个女孩抢走了珠宝和现金，而男孩则用刀指着两名祖父母进入后面的房间，命令他们跪在地板上。
The boy threatened to kill them with a flower pot and, at one point, cut the grandfather on the hand.
男孩用花盆威胁要杀死他们，并一度割伤了祖父的手。
The three were arrested a couple of days later.
几天后，三人被捕。
Under Florida law, the state's attorney could choose to prosecute Jessica as an adult, and did, charging her with armed kidnapping and armed robbery.
根据佛罗里达州法律，该州检察官可以选择在成年后起诉杰西卡，并且也确实这样做了，指控她武装绑架和武装抢劫。
Jessica pled guilty.
杰西卡承认有罪。
Her mother wasn't present for the sentencing.
她的母亲没有出席宣判。
She'd married a serviceman and followed him to Germany.
她嫁给了一名军人并跟随他去了德国。
In court, Jessica initially refused to apologize to her grandparents.
在法庭上，杰西卡最初拒绝向祖父母道歉。
And at the sentencing, the judge told Jessica that her dogs were better behaved than her.
在宣判时，法官告诉杰西卡，她的狗比她表现得更好。
The judge also told Jessica, and I quote, "I don't think we need people like you in our country." She sentenced Jessica to nine years.
法官还告诉杰西卡（我引用一下），“我认为我们的国家不需要像你这样的人。”她判处杰西卡九年徒刑。
Jessica became the youngest girl in Florida's adult prisons.
杰西卡成为佛罗里达州成人监狱中最年轻的女孩。
Suzanne Manning then entered Jessica's life.
苏珊·曼宁随后进入了杰西卡的生活。
I couldn't imagine being a child growing up-- I knew what my son, at the age of 13, was eating when I left home, and I knew how important snacks were.
我无法想象作为一个孩子的成长过程——我知道我13岁的儿子在我离开家时吃什么，我也知道零食有多么重要。
I knew how important chips were, and juice when he wanted it.
我知道薯片和果汁在他需要时有多么重要。
And then, all of a sudden, to realize, here's this child in prison who couldn't eat when she wanted to eat.
然后，突然间，我意识到，这个孩子在监狱里，想吃东西却吃不下。
And, sure, everyone would chip in and buy Jessica snacks and stuff, but do you know what it's like to feed a child like that on $30 a week?
当然，每个人都会出钱买杰西卡的零食和东西，但你知道每周 30 美元喂养一个这样的孩子是什么感觉吗？
I mean, it's virtually impossible.
我的意思是，这几乎是不可能的。
We used to look at her at night thinking, what can we do to get food for her?
我们常常在晚上看着她思考，我们能做些什么来给她弄到食物呢？
It was horrible.
太可怕了。
Prisons are pretty strict on touching.
监狱对于触摸的规定非常严格。
It's called unauthorized physical contact, and you can get a DR, disciplinary report, and go to confinement for it.
这就是所谓的未经授权的身体接触，你可以得到一份医生报告、纪律报告，然后去坐月子。
And, many times, officers would catch me hugging Jessica, or rubbing her head, or her head on my shoulder if she was crying, and they wouldn't say anything, they'd just walk past it.
而且，很多时候，警察会发现我拥抱杰西卡，或者揉她的头，或者如果她哭的话，她的头靠在我的肩膀上，他们什么也不会说，只是走过去。
And I understand that they couldn't encourage it, or acknowledge that they saw it without having to write me up because they would have to keep the rules for everybody.
我知道他们不能鼓励它，或者承认他们看到了它而不必给我写信，因为他们必须为每个人遵守规则。
There is not a rule that says if you're 14 or 15 someone can hug you because you need a hug.
没有一条规则规定，如果您 14 岁或 15 岁，有人可以拥抱您，因为您需要拥抱。
But they would let you?
但他们会让你这么做吗？
Suzanne Manning Many times.
苏珊·曼宁很多次。
Many, many times.
很多很多次。
There was one time in our dorm, when I walked in, everyone got real quiet, and a little circle was formed around, in the back around people.
有一次在我们宿舍，当我走进去的时候，大家都安静下来，围成一个小圈子，后面围着人。
And Jessica was in the center of it in an argument.
杰西卡在一场争论中处于中心地位。
I didn't even recognize her voice, OK?
我什至都没有认出她的声音，好吗？
She was in an argument with this girl and they were just going at it.
她正在和这个女孩争论，而且他们只是争论不休。
And this circle had been surrounded around them by adults who wanted them to fight.
而这个圈子里，已经围满了想要他们战斗的成年人。
And I actually got between two of the women, and I took Jessica and pulled her up to the officer's station.
我实际上挡在了两个女人中间，我拉着杰西卡，把她拉到警官站。
Now, let me guess, Jessica must've really pissed at you.
现在，让我猜猜，杰西卡一定很生你的气。
Well, in the beginning, she was.
嗯，一开始，她是。
I'm not going to say she wasn't.
我不会说她不是。
She told me that she needed to prove her point, and she needed to stand up, and all the rest of those con words.
她告诉我，她需要证明自己的观点，她需要站起来，以及所有其他的骗局。
But she didn't need to do it.
但她不需要这样做。
And she ended up being OK after that.
之后她就没事了。
Christmas was really big for her.
圣诞节对她来说真的很重要。
She said she could remember Christmases with her mother.
她说她记得和母亲一起度过的圣诞节。
And I remember one Christmas, one of my friends named Susan made Jessica-- she melted down some Hershey bars and made Jessica a Christmas tree out of Hershey bars that were melted.
我记得有一个圣诞节，我的一个叫苏珊的朋友做了杰西卡——她融化了一些好时巧克力棒，用融化的好时巧克力棒给杰西卡做了一棵圣诞树。
She mixed some nuts in it.
她在里面混了一些坚果。
And then she took M&M's and smashed them up and put them on top to make it like it was lights, and shaped it all up and got it hard, and gave Jessica that.
然后她拿起巧克力豆，把它们捣碎，放在上面，让它看起来像灯一样，然后把它全部成型，弄硬，然后给了杰西卡。
And I ran out to the store.
我跑到商店。
I thought of it at the last minute.
我是在最后一刻才想到的。
I hadn't even thought that she was a child and it was Christmastime and she might want something.
我什至没有想到她还是个孩子，而且现在是圣诞节，她可能会想要一些东西。
So I ran out to the store and I got Jessica a radio and some headphones and some batteries.
于是我跑到商店给杰西卡买了一台收音机、一些耳机和一些电池。
When I came back down, and I gave that to Jessica, she didn't stop hugging me.
当我回来时，我把它交给了杰西卡，她并没有停止拥抱我。
She jumped up and down.
她上蹿下跳。
And then I realized what a solace that was to her to be able to listen to the music.
然后我意识到能够听到音乐对她来说是多么大的安慰。
I mean, she stayed on her bed after that and didn't bother us, pretty much.
我的意思是，此后她就躺在床上，几乎没有打扰我们。
She could listen to music.
她可以听音乐。
She knew what was going on.
她知道发生了什么事。
She walked around with it at rec.
她带着它四处走动。
And I thought, why didn't I think of that before?
我想，为什么我之前没有想到这一点？
She's a child.
她还是个孩子。
Children like music.
孩子们喜欢音乐。
Jessica started calling Suzanne Mommy, but Suzanne discouraged her.
杰西卡开始叫苏珊妈妈，但苏珊劝阻了她。
She started that, "Mom, you're my mom." And I sat down and told her, "I'm not your mom.
她开始说：“妈妈，你是我的妈妈。”我坐下来告诉她：“我不是你妈妈。
Your mom is in Germany.
你妈妈在德国。
And I'm Suzanne, and I'll do anything I can to help you." And a lot of people think that's cruel.
我是苏珊娜，我会尽我所能来帮助你。”很多人认为这很残酷。
I don't think it is.
我不认为是这样。
I think it's a reality.
我认为这是现实。
I'm not your mom.
我不是你妈妈。
Another reality is, if you try to be in groups like that or bond like that with people here, in prison, you get shipped.
另一个现实是，如果你试图加入这样的团体或与这里的人建立那样的联系，在监狱里，你就会被驱逐。
I mean, you can get shipped today.
我的意思是，今天就可以发货。
This morning they could've woken me up and said, "You're going to Dade." On Tuesday, they could wake me up and say, "You're going to Lowell." Jefferson had one shipment day, and that was Tuesdays.
今天早上他们本可以叫醒我并说：“你要去戴德。”周二，他们可能会叫醒我并说：“你要去洛厄尔。”杰斐逊有一个发货日，那就是星期二。
People were shipped on Tuesdays.
人们在周二被运送。
So, every Monday night, I'd say, "Jessica, do you realize that I can be shipped tomorrow?
所以，每个星期一晚上，我都会说：“杰西卡，你知道我明天可以发货吗？
Do you realize you can be shipped tomorrow?"
你知道明天就能发货吗？”
Suzanne was transferred to another prison.
苏珊娜被转移到另一所监狱。
But, before she left, she wrote to the Children's Advocacy Center at Florida State University's law school detailing her concerns about Jessica.
但是，在离开之前，她写信给佛罗里达州立大学法学院的儿童权益中心，详细说明了她对杰西卡的担忧。
Jessica needs more milk, Suzanne wrote.
苏珊娜写道，杰西卡需要更多牛奶。
Jessica receives a prison diet tailored for a grown man or woman.
杰西卡接受了为成年男性或女性量身定制的监狱饮食。
It includes only one cup of 2% milk each day.
每天仅包含一杯 2% 牛奶。
Claudia Kemp was a law student at Florida State, and she took on Jessica's case.
克劳迪娅·坎普是佛罗里达州立大学的法学院学生，她接手了杰西卡的案件。
Claudia is 47, a former hardware store owner and the mother of three daughters.
克劳迪娅 (Claudia) 47 岁，曾是一家五金店老板，也是三个女儿的母亲。
She made a commitment to see Jessica every week.
她承诺每周都会见到杰西卡。
And, pretty soon, she'd become the second woman to step in as a kind of surrogate parent to Jessica.
很快，她就成为第二位以杰西卡的代理父母身份介入的女性。
One time she was not feeling well.
有一次她感觉不舒服。
And she just put her head down on the table and said, "I want you to take me home with you."
她只是把头埋在桌子上，说道：“我要你带我回家。”
And you said?
你说呢？
Claudia Kemp And I said, "I wish I could." I mean that I wish I could take you out of here.
克劳迪娅·坎普 我说：“我希望我能。”我的意思是我希望能带你离开这里。
I'm sorry you're here.
我很抱歉你在这里。
Other times she would say, you know, "Couldn't I just go out for a drive?" "Can I go to the beach?
其他时候她会说，你知道，“我不能开车出去兜风吗？” “我可以去海滩吗？
I wish I could just go to the beach." And it's not even that she was asking to be let out, but just couldn't I go out for a little while, like a field trip.
我希望我能去海滩。”甚至不是她要求出去，而是我不能出去一会儿，比如实地考察。
It's sort of what she was asking for, was a field trip.
这就是她所要求的，一次实地考察。
Just to go out.
只是为了出去。
And it was very hard because you have to repress a very natural reaction.
这非常困难，因为你必须抑制一种非常自然的反应。
Which is?
哪个是？
Claudia Kemp To want to take care of her.
克劳迪娅·坎普·杜想要照顾她。
She had never been to the visiting plaza, which is the visiting that happens on the weekend when people's families come, because she never had any family to come.
她从来没有去过探望广场，就是周末家人来的探望，因为她从来没有家人来过。
So she had never participated in that visiting schedule.
所以她从来没有参加过那个探访计划。
And so I made arrangements to come see her on a Saturday.
所以我安排周六去看她。
And a friend of hers grandparents were also there on that same day, so it was like a party that we had.
她祖父母的一个朋友同一天也在那里，所以这就像我们举办的一个聚会。
I stayed there for four hours.
我在那里呆了四个小时。
And Jessica and her friend made us lunch, which is another one of these recipes they have where they take a variety of items from the canteen, like Spam, and oriental rice with seasoning, and Cheetos, and they make this almost-- I'm not even sure what to call it-- like a little cornmeal roll of some kind.
杰西卡和她的朋友给我们做了午餐，这是他们的另一种食谱，他们从食堂拿了各种各样的东西，比如垃圾邮件、调味东方大米和奇多，他们做的几乎——我什至不知道该怎么称呼它——就像某种小玉米面卷。
In October of last year, Jessica, for the second time, lost an adult who was looking after her.
去年十月，杰西卡第二次失去了照顾她的成年人。
She was transferred to the Dade Correctional Institution, which is eight hours from Tallahassee, too far for Claudia to visit any more.
她被转移到戴德惩教所，距离塔拉哈西八小时车程，克劳迪娅无法再去探访。
And Jessica can't write Suzanne Manning since correspondence between inmates isn't allowed.
杰西卡无法给苏珊·曼宁写信，因为囚犯之间不允许通信。
Here at Dade, which houses 521 women inmates, Jessica has found other mentors, which she describes as her prison family.
在关押 521 名女囚犯的戴德监狱，杰西卡找到了其他导师，她将其描述为她的监狱家人。
I have two dads, two moms.
我有两个爸爸，两个妈妈。
I have a great grandfather, a great grandmother, uncles, aunties, brothers, cousins, sisters.
我有曾祖父、曾祖母、叔叔、阿姨、兄弟、表兄弟姐妹。
And, as a family, do they watch out for you?
作为一个家庭，他们会照顾你吗？
Yeah, they do.
是的，他们确实这么做了。
Alex Kotlowitz Her prison family is such an elaborate affair that two of her moms, their nicknames Blackie and Tattoo, both in for murder, had a custody battle over Jessica.
亚历克斯·科特洛维茨 (Alex Kotlowitz) 她的监狱家庭关系非常复杂，以至于她的两个妈妈（她们的昵称“黑基”和“纹身”）都因谋杀罪入狱，为争夺杰西卡的监护权而展开争夺。
I didn't ask Jessica how the dispute was settled, but suffice it to say that Blackie won and Tattoo is granted visiting rights on Wednesdays and Sundays.
我没有问杰西卡这场纠纷是如何解决的，但我只想说黑基赢了，纹身获得了周三和周日的探视权。
Her family gave her a Sweet 16 party, making a cake out of Pop Tarts, cream cheese, and melted chocolate.
她的家人为她举办了一场 Sweet 16 派对，用馅饼、奶油奶酪和融化的巧克力制作了一个蛋糕。
One woman made a Teddy bear out of socks, which Jessica took to bed every night until it was discovered by a guard and confiscated.
一名妇女用袜子做了一只泰迪熊，杰西卡每天晚上都把它带到床上，直到被警卫发现并没收。
Stuffed animals aren't permitted.
不允许携带毛绒动物。
My great grandfather, Sarah Allen.
我的曾祖父莎拉·艾伦。
She's 21.
她21岁了。
She's in my dorm.
她在我宿舍。
She lives in my dorm.
她住在我宿舍。
Wait, she's 21, and she's your great, great grandfather?
等等，她 21 岁了，她是你的曾曾祖父？
She's just my great grandfather.
她只是我的曾祖父。
Yeah, only 21.
是的，才21岁。
Her great grandfather, Sarah Allen, is in for killing a 40-year-old man in a hold-up.
她的曾祖父莎拉·艾伦 (Sarah Allen) 因在抢劫中杀害一名 40 岁男子而被判入狱。
One mom, Blackie, along with an accomplice, robbed an elderly couple at their home.
一位名叫布莱基（Blackie）的妈妈和一名同伙在一对老年夫妇的家中抢劫。
The accomplice hacked them to death with a machete.
同伙用砍刀将他们砍死。
Another mom, Tattoo, along with an accomplice, stole checks from an elderly gentlemen.
另一位妈妈纹身和一名同伙偷了一位老先生的支票。
Her accomplice beat the man to death.
她的同伙将该男子殴打致死。
These are the women now in Jessica's life.
这些是杰西卡现在生活中的女性。
During my visit at Dade, I met with Jessica's prison step-mom, Wanda Dennis, who's serving 22 months for check forgery.
在访问戴德县期间，我会见了杰西卡的监狱继母旺达·丹尼斯 (Wanda Dennis)，她因伪造支票而入狱 22 个月。
I will not see anybody harm her or do anything to her.
我不会看到任何人伤害她或对她做任何事。
She's a baby.
她是个婴儿。
To me, she's a baby.
对我来说，她就是个孩子。
I have a child, what?
我有孩子了，怎么办？
Two years younger than her?
比她小两岁？
And if one of my kids was to come here, in the same situation as her, I want someone older to look out for my child also.
如果我的一个孩子来到这里，与她处于同样的情况，我希望有一个年长的人也能照顾我的孩子。
And I look out for her in that aspect, as if she was one of my own children.
我在这方面照顾她，就像她是我自己的孩子一样。
If she calls you and you do not move right that minute, oh, she blows up and she storms off.
如果她打电话给你，而你在那一刻没有立即行动，哦，她就会勃然大怒，然后怒气冲冲地走开。
She's gone and she's mad.
她走了，她很生气。
And then, when you see her, "Oh, I don't want no-- you don't never have time for me." And, "No, you have time for everybody else." And we're like, "But, Jessica, we just spent all day yesterday." It doesn't make a difference.
然后，当你看到她时，“哦，我不想——你从来没有时间陪我。”并且，“不，你还有时间照顾其他人。”我们就像，“但是，杰西卡，我们昨天才花了一整天。”这没有什么区别。
Every day is Jessica's day.
每一天都是杰西卡的一天。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
She has this little walk.
她有这个小散步。
I think it's her little grown-up walk.
我认为这是她成年后的小步履。
And I hate it when she does it.
当她这样做时我讨厌它。
And I tell her all the time, "Stop walking like that." I don't know, I could just picture her walking the compound right now.
我总是告诉她，“别再这样走路了。”我不知道，我只能想象她现在在院子里散步的样子。
But, you say she's got an adult-like walk, you mean just kind of swiveling her hips?
但是，你说她走路时像成年人一样，你的意思是只是旋转她的臀部？
Yes, that's the walk she does.
是的，她就是这样走路的。
Yes.
是的。
But it's just her own little walk she's picked up since she's been here, I think.
但我想，这只是她来到这里后开始的一点散步。
Kind of testing those adult waters, I guess.
我想，这是在测试成人的水域。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
She has, in a way, to me, she doesn't have a choice.
在某种程度上，对我来说，她别无选择。
She either has to blend in with adults or act like a child.
她要么必须与成年人融为一体，要么表现得像个孩子。
If she acts like a child, then she gets talked about.
如果她表现得像个孩子，就会被人议论。
The fact is, this isn't an environment that leaves much room for experimentation.
事实上，这并不是一个没有太多实验空间的环境。
And Jessica's no longer a rosy-cheeked 14-year-old.
杰西卡也不再是那个面色红润的 14 岁女孩了。
She'll be 17 in August.
八月份她就17岁了。
She smokes.
她抽烟。
She curses.
她咒骂道。
She wears dark eye shadow.
她画着深色眼影。
She lifts weights.
她举重。
Not surprisingly, she suffers from depression and takes anti-depressants.
毫不奇怪，她患有抑郁症并服用抗抑郁药。
The women in Jessica's life worry about her.
杰西卡生活中的女人都很担心她。
Jessica's mother, her real mother, has re-entered her life.
杰西卡的母亲，她的亲生母亲，重新进入了她的生活。
And she and Jessica have had a reconciliation, of sorts.
她和杰西卡已经达成了某种和解。
They talk twice a month.
他们每个月谈两次。
Claudia Kemp, the law student, also keeps in touch by phone with Jessica.
法律系学生克劳迪娅·坎普 (Claudia Kemp) 也通过电话与杰西卡保持联系。
She's helped file a motion to get Jessica transferred into a juvenile facility where there'd be teachers, counselors, and therapists to work with her.
她帮助提交了一份动议，要求将杰西卡转移到青少年机构，那里有老师、辅导员和治疗师与她一起工作。
It's also a place where Jessica could be among other children, which, she told me, is what she misses most of all.
这也是杰西卡可以和其他孩子在一起的地方，她告诉我，这是她最怀念的地方。
Towards the end of our time together, I told Jessica I was planning to visit Suzanne Manning the next day.
在我们在一起的时间即将结束时，我告诉杰西卡我计划第二天去拜访苏珊·曼宁。
Jessica excitedly recounted the Christmas Suzanne gave her the radio with headphones.
杰西卡兴奋地讲述了圣诞节苏珊送给她的收音机和耳机。
She then paused.
然后她停了下来。
"I miss her," she said.
“我想念她，”她说。
Suzanne misses Jessica as well.
苏珊娜也想念杰西卡。
I ask all the time.
我一直在问。
Anybody who comes from Dade, I ask a million questions about Jessica.
任何来自戴德的人，我都会问一百万个关于杰西卡的问题。
I heard that right after I left she actually got her GED.
我听说我离开后她就真的拿到了 GED。
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
Suzanne Manning No?
苏珊·曼宁 没有吗？
I heard that she got her GED.
我听说她获得了 GED。
We used to study every night.
我们以前每天晚上都学习。
Even on weekends, we worked on her homework.
即使在周末，我们也帮她做作业。
It was really hard saying goodbye to Jessica because, I guess, she knew that I was leaving.
和杰西卡告别真的很难，因为我猜她知道我要离开。
I mean, it was pretty obvious.
我的意思是，这非常明显。
And the next morning I went over and said goodbye, and I gave her a hug.
第二天早上，我走过去跟她道别，并给了她一个拥抱。
And she just sat on her bed and looked at me, like, she couldn't believe I was abandoning her.
她只是坐在床上看着我，她不敢相信我要抛弃她。
And that's a pretty painful thing for me to have to deal with.
这对我来说是一件非常痛苦的事情。
Did she say anything to you?
她有对你说什么吗？
Suzanne Manning She said "Goodbye." That was it.
苏珊·曼宁 她说“再见”。就是这样。
I told her I loved her and I said goodbye.
我告诉她我爱她，然后就说了再见。
I said, "Bye, Jessica.
我说：“再见，杰西卡。
I love you," I said, "and you'll be OK." But I don't know that that's necessarily true.
我爱你，”我说，“你会没事的。”但我不知道这一定是真的。
When I asked an official at the Dade Correctional Institution whether it was difficult having such a young girl among adults, he replied, "We treat everyone the same here." That may just be the problem.
当我询问戴德惩教所的一名官员时，在成年人中拥有这样一个年轻女孩是否困难，他回答说：“我们在这里对每个人都一视同仁。”这可能就是问题所在。
There's no one, for example, to make sure Jessica goes to school.
例如，没有人确保杰西卡去上学。
She stopped attending GED classes because, she told me, "the others in the class were too noisy."
她告诉我，她不再参加 GED 课程，因为“班上的其他人太吵闹了。”
There's no one to stop her from smoking.
没有人阻止她抽烟。
In fact, her prison family supplies her with cigarettes.
事实上，她的监狱家人为她提供香烟。
There's no one to advise her to think twice before getting a tattoo.
没有人建议她在纹身之前要三思而后行。
She's tattooed the initials of a friend on one finger and, on her forearm, has imprinted the letter M.
她在一根手指上纹了一位朋友名字的首字母，在前臂上纹了字母M。
It was to spell Mom, but, she tells me, she never got around to finishing it.
这是为了拼写“妈妈”，但是，她告诉我，她一直没有时间完成它。
Alex Kotlowitz is the author of The Other Side of the River and There Are No Children Here .
亚历克斯·科特洛维茨是《河的另一边》和《这里没有孩子》的作者。
Jessica Robinson gets out of prison in the year 2006.
2006 年，杰西卡·罗宾逊出狱。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "IT'S MOM" BY SARAH SELIGMAN]
[音乐播放 - 莎拉·塞利格曼的《IT'S MOM》]
Hello, my name is Beau O'Reilly.
你好，我叫博·奥莱利。
And this is my mother, Winifred, here to my right.
这是我的母亲，威妮弗雷德，在我的右边。
How do you do?
你好吗？
This is my son Richard John.
这是我的儿子理查德·约翰。
Oh, no. [LAUGHS] Winifred O'reilly And the reason he's laughing is he changed that along the way.
哦，不。 [笑] Winifred O'reilly 他笑的原因是他一路走来改变了这一点。
He's now Beau, and that's the way he's known.
他现在是博，这就是他的名字。
I call him that too.
我也这么称呼他。
And so, Mom, you have 14 children, correct?
那么，妈妈，您有 14 个孩子，对吗？
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
Yes.
是的。
Beau O'reilly And it's Mother's Day, and we're here to celebrate Mother's Day.
Beau O'reilly 今天是母亲节，我们在这里庆祝母亲节。
Do you have any memories that you'd like to share?
您有什么想要分享的回忆吗？
I was remembering that-- I was thinking about the love part when we made this decision with Ira, that we would go in a love direction.
我记得——当我们和艾拉做出这个决定时，我正在考虑爱情的部分，我们会朝着爱情的方向前进。
I was thinking about when we were still pretty little and we lived in the house on Edgewood Avenue.
我想起我们还很小的时候，我们住在埃奇伍德大道的房子里。
Yes.
是的。
Beau O'reilly And I remember being really little and figuring out, at a certain point, that you listened to the opera on Saturday mornings.
博·奥莱利（Beau O'reilly） 我记得我很小的时候就发现，在某个时刻，你周六早上都听歌剧。
Oh, yes.
哦是的。
Beau O'reilly And that, if I was interested in opera, I could spend more time with you.
博·奥莱利 而且，如果我对歌剧感兴趣，我可以花更多时间和你在一起。
Because everybody else was not interested.
因为其他人都不感兴趣。
They were running around outside, which was a reasonable thing for them to do.
他们在外面跑来跑去，这对他们来说是合理的事情。
And so I would come and sit by the radio.
所以我会过来坐在收音机旁。
And you would listen to the opera.
你会听歌剧。
And you would tell me a little bit about the Italian or the German, what the language meant.
你会告诉我一些关于意大利语或德语的信息，以及这些语言的含义。
But you would mostly tell me the story of the opera.
但你主要会告诉我歌剧的故事。
And I really didn't care very much about the music, but I loved hearing you tell the story of how the opera worked.
我真的不太关心音乐，但我喜欢听你讲述歌剧的故事。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I hadn't heard that before.
我以前没听说过。
My memory of listening to the operas on Saturday afternoon is more I would put the little gate up, which we had when each little child was in the crawling stage.
我对周六下午听歌剧的记忆更多的是我会把小门打开，这是我们每个小孩子在爬行阶段时都有的。
And I'd put the gate up, and I'd say, "I'm going to be in the living room listening to the opera.
我会把门打开，然后说：“我要在客厅里听歌剧。
If you want to be quiet and listen, you can come in.
如果你想安静地听，可以进来。
If you want to make a lot of noise and have fun, stay out." [LAUGHS]
如果你想制造很多噪音并享受乐趣，就不要出去。” [笑]
Right, because it was your private time.
是的，因为那是你的私人时间。
It was my private time.
那是我的私人时间。
Beau O'reilly Yeah.
博·奥莱利 是的。
And the private time thing was really important to me when I was a kid, to get private time with you, because I was always surrounded by brothers and sisters, because the place was so small and we all were there all the time.
当我还是个孩子的时候，私人时间对我来说真的很重要，和你在一起的私人时间，因为我总是被兄弟姐妹包围，因为地方很小，我们一直都在那里。
And so I remember, actually, I would calculate little things.
所以我记得，实际上，我会计算一些小事情。
Like, OK, am I sick enough to stay home with mother?
就像，好吧，我病得可以和妈妈呆在家里吗？
And there was this period of time, when I was in 5th, 6th grade, something like that, where I would get this stuff that would come out of my eyes.
有一段时间，当我上五年级、六年级的时候，我会从我的眼睛里看到这些东西。
I don't know what it was, it was probably an infection.
不知道是什么病，应该是感染了。
And I would wake up with my eyes glued shut from this gunk in my eyes that would glue them shut.
当我醒来时，我的眼睛被粘在眼睛里的这种粘稠物粘住了。
And I would lie on the bunk bed with these slices of cucumber.
我会和这些黄瓜片一起躺在双层床上。
You would give me slices of cucumber.
你会给我几片黄瓜。
And I'd lie on them with the cucumber on my eyes, which, I guess, pulled the stuff out of the eyes.
我会躺在上面，把黄瓜放在眼睛上，我猜，这样可以把眼睛里的东西吸出来。
And then you would slip me slices of cucumber to eat.
然后你就会塞给我几片黄瓜吃。
And you would tell me different stories and talk about things.
你会告诉我不同的故事并谈论一些事情。
And that is when I remember that you confessed to me your love of Johnny Cash.
就在那时，我记得你向我承认了你对约翰尼·卡什的爱。
My goodness.
天哪。
Beau O'reilly Because you would listen to Johnny Cash on the radio.
Beau O'reilly 因为你会在广播中收听约翰尼·卡什 (Johnny Cash) 的歌曲。
And you were kind of like, "Well, it's country music, and it's kind of dorky, and the rest of us shouldn't know about the Johnny Cash thing.
你有点像，“嗯，这是乡村音乐，有点傻，我们其他人不应该知道约翰尼·卡什的事情。
But I really love his voice, Beau." And I loved that about you, that you had this little secret Johnny Cash thing.
但我真的很喜欢他的声音，博。”我喜欢你这一点，因为你有约翰尼·卡什这个小秘密。
There was a time when I, of course, for many, many years, I would be up in the middle of the night feeding a baby.
当然，有段时间我会在半夜起床喂婴儿。
But there was nothing else on the radio but the Barn Dance.
但收音机里除了谷仓舞会之外什么也没有。
Right, it was late at night.
没错，已经是深夜了。
Winifred O'reilly And I thought, "Now, these are real people.
温妮弗莱德·奥莱利 我想，“现在，这些都是真实的人。
I don't know this music at all, this country music, but I like the integrity I'm getting here.
我根本不懂这种音乐，这种乡村音乐，但我喜欢我在这里得到的正直。
I like this feeling." And, of course, it also helped me through the night.
我喜欢这种感觉。”当然，它也帮助我度过了夜晚。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, the singing was always, really, a very important part for you.
嗯，唱歌对你来说一直都是非常重要的部分。
And, then, therefore, for us.
因此，对于我们来说也是如此。
And that was a lot of what we did, as a group, is that we sang together and told stories.
作为一个团队，我们所做的很多事情就是一起唱歌、讲故事。
Do you want to sing now?
你现在想唱歌吗？
I was thinking that this is a lullaby.
我以为这是一首摇篮曲。
I sang it frequently.
我经常唱这首歌。
[SINGING] Lullaby and goodnight, with roses bedight, With lilies o'er spread is baby's wee bed.
[歌唱] 摇篮曲和晚安，睡前有玫瑰， 婴儿的小床铺着百合花。
Lay thee down now and rest, may thy slumber be blessed.
现在躺下休息吧，愿你的睡眠得到祝福。
Lay thee down now and sleep, may thy slumber be deep.
现在躺下睡觉吧，愿你睡得很沉。
I was just thinking about this the other day, is that-- I think I was in the 7th grade because I was already tall, because I was as tall in 7th grade as I am now.
前几天我在想这个，是这样的——我想我当时在七年级，因为我已经很高了，因为我七年级时和现在一样高。
So I was, like, 5' 9", and I was very skinny, but I was that tall.
所以我大概是 5 英尺 9 英寸，而且我很瘦，但我就是那么高。
And I woke up one morning in the attic.
一天早上我在阁楼醒来。
I slept in the attic with my brothers.
我和我的兄弟们睡在阁楼上。
And I got out of bed and I fell down on the floor because my leg, my right leg, didn't work.
我从床上起来，摔倒在地板上，因为我的腿，我的右腿，不能用了。
It just went completely numb and didn't work.
它完全麻木了，不起作用。
But, somehow, the decision was made I would go to school anyway.
但是，不知何故，我决定无论如何都要上学。
The leg must be asleep, and it would wake up, and I would go.
那条腿肯定睡着了，它会醒来，我就会走。
So, I went to school.
于是，我就去上学了。
And I got to school on the bus, which was, maybe, two miles from where we lived, two and a half miles.
我乘公共汽车去学校，距离我们住的地方大概有两英里，两英里半。
And when I got to school, it was obvious that the leg still wasn't working.
当我到达学校时，很明显我的腿仍然不能正常工作。
It just wasn't working.
它只是不起作用。
And so one of the nuns called you and, I think, at the neighbor's house because we didn't have a phone.
所以其中一位修女给你打电话，我想是在邻居家，因为我们没有电话。
And the neighbor went and got you.
然后邻居就去抓你了。
And you walked from home to the school to get me.
你从家里步行到学校来接我。
And you came to the classroom and you picked me up.
然后你来到教室接我。
And I still remember how it felt to be picked up, at that point, because you put your arms around me and you picked me up at the trunk, like, at the chest and shoulders.
我仍然记得当时被抱起来的感觉，因为你用双臂搂住了我，然后你把我抱了起来，比如胸部和肩膀。
And you pick me up, like this, with your two hands kind of linked together, and picked me up, and a lifted me up, and carried me out of the school.
然后你把我抱起来，就像这样，两只手连在一起，把我抱起来，然后把我举起来，带我出了学校。
And I was taller than you were, and so my feet dragged along the sidewalk.
而且我比你高，所以我的脚在人行道上拖着脚步。
And I remember that too, the physical sensation of that.
我也记得那件事，那是身体上的感觉。
And then you carried me from that section of the town to the other section of the town where this doctor was, which is another mile and a half, maybe, maybe two miles.
然后你把我从镇上的那个地区带到了这位医生所在的镇上的另一个地区，这又是一英里半，也许是两英里。
I'm not exactly sure.
我不太确定。
And you carried me the whole way.
而你一路陪伴着我。
And every once in a while you would say, "OK, now honey, we're going to stop." And you would just put me down, and we would wait.
每隔一段时间你就会说：“好吧，亲爱的，我们要停下来了。”你就会把我放下，我们就会等待。
And then you would pick me back up and you would go.
然后你会把我接回来然后你就走了。
And the whole time you talked to me as we walked, and you told me about your day and what you were doing.
在我们走路的过程中，你一直在跟我说话，告诉我你的一天和你在做什么。
And you treated it as if this was just a normal thing.
而你却把它当作一件平常的事情来对待。
And you made me feel very comfortable with it.
你让我感觉很舒服。
And there was no fear in it.
而且里面没有恐惧。
And then we went to the doctor.
然后我们就去看医生了。
There was nothing really wrong.
确实没有什么问题。
They sent me home.
他们送我回家。
The next day, it went away.
第二天，它就消失了。
It was this weird little phenomena.
就是这个奇怪的小现象。
But what I remember most about it was that feeling of being taken care of by you.
但我印象最深刻的还是那种被你照顾的感觉。
Do you remember that?
你还记得吗？
I think I remember it now because I hear you telling it.
我想我现在记得它是因为我听到你讲述它。
But I wouldn't have had it in my memory bank until it was brought up.
但在它被提起之前，我不会把它存入我的记忆库。
I think that that's what a mother does.
我想这就是母亲该做的事。
A mother takes care of the situation the best she can at the moment and doesn't think of the inability to do it, just I have to do this.
母亲尽其所能地处理目前的情况，不会想到做不到，只是我必须这样做。
I don't see how I could have anything else, but a happy Mother's Day.
除了母亲节快乐，我不知道还能有什么别的事情。
I love you, Mom.
我爱你，妈妈。
Winifred O'reilly I love you, Beau, Richard John.
温妮弗莱德·奥莱利 我爱你，亲爱的，理查德·约翰。
Beau O'Reilly's play, Not Only Sleeping , is currently in an extended run at Chicago's Curious Theater Branch.
博·奥莱利的戏剧《不只是沉睡》目前正在芝加哥好奇剧院分院上演。
Winifred O'Reilly, his musical review that goes up at the end of May in Skokie, Illinois.
Winifred O'Reilly，他的音乐评论将于五月底在伊利诺伊州斯科基发布。
It's called It's About Time .
它的名字叫《是时候了》。
Well, our program was produced today by Blue Chevigny and myself with Alex Blumberg, Susan Burton and Julie Snyder.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由 Blue Chevigny 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Susan Burton 和 Julie Snyder 制作的。
Contributing editors, Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, and Alix Spiegel, Nancy Updike and Consigliere Sarah Vowel.
特约编辑：Paul Tough、Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin、Alix Spiegel、Nancy Updike 和 Consigliere Sarah Vowel。
Production help from Todd Bachman and Mary Wiltenburg.
托德·巴赫曼 (Todd Bachman) 和玛丽·威尔滕伯格 (Mary Wiltenburg) 为制作提供帮助。
Musical help from Mr. John Connors.
约翰·康纳斯先生提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] To buy a cassette of this, or any of our programs, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago, 312-832-3380.
[致谢] 要购买本节目的磁带或我们的任何节目，请致电芝加哥的 WBEZ，电话：312-832-3380。
Or you can listen to most of our programs for free, on the Internet, at our website, www.thislife.org.
或者，您可以在互联网上、我们的网站 www.thislife.org 上免费收听我们的大部分节目。
Thanks to Elizabeth Meister, who runs the site.
感谢该网站的运营者伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister)。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who doesn't know how it happened to him, and he keeps warning me about it.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 监督，他不知道这件事是如何发生在他身上的，他一直警告我这件事。
You wait 'til you go from a figure of fear to a figure of fun.
你等着，直到你从一个恐惧的形象变成一个有趣的形象。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Happy Mother's Day.
母亲节快乐。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。