156: What Remains - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #156 | March 31, 2000 156: What Remains Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 156 集 | 2000 年 3 月 31 日 156：还剩下什么 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
A few years back here in Chicago, we had some unusual weather and 18 people were struck by lightning in one month.
几年前在芝加哥，我们遇到了一些不寻常的天气，一个月内有 18 人被闪电击中。
17 of them survived, and I set out to interview as many of them as would talk to me.
其中 17 人幸存下来，我开始采访尽可能多的愿意跟我说话的人。
The ones with the worst injuries remembered nothing of what happened to them.
伤势最重的人对发生在他们身上的事情一无所知。
But the rest all described the moment they were hit in very similar terms.
但其余的人都用非常相似的措辞描述了他们被击中的那一刻。
Mike Bergeron and Larry Wilson were on the golf course under an umbrella with two other guys when the lightning struck.
闪电袭来时，迈克·伯杰隆和拉里·威尔逊正和另外两个人打着伞在高尔夫球场上。
All I saw was just a very bright white flash.
我所看到的只是一道非常明亮的白色闪光。
I think I remember a white light.
我想我记得一道白光。
And when the lightning struck, I felt no pain.
当闪电击中时，我并没有感到疼痛。
And I can remember, or what I think I remember, is just getting knocked backward.
我能记得的，或者我认为我记得的，只是被击倒了。
My brain saying, hey, you've got to stand up, and nothing else would really respond.
我的大脑说，嘿，你必须站起来，其他什么都不会真正做出反应。
And I was trying to call friends over.
我正试图叫朋友过来。
I remember that.
我记得。
But I couldn't speak.
但我无法说话。
And it was like things kind of went in slow motion.
事情就像慢动作一样进行。
Out of the corner of my eye, I can remember seeing Tony falling backward.
我用眼角的余光记得看到托尼向后倒去。
I can remember seeing Larry falling, but it wasn't like somebody just tripping and falling on the ground.
我记得看到拉里跌倒，但这并不像有人绊倒并跌倒在地上。
It was like it took them one or two minutes before they actually hit the ground.
就好像他们花了一两分钟才真正落地。
There's a terror to lightning.
有一种对闪电的恐惧。
Victims say they were surrounded by friends and family.
受害者说，他们周围都是朋友和家人。
But when the bolt came, they were suddenly alone, trapped in their own bodies.
但当闪电到来时，他们突然孤身一人，被困在自己的身体里。
The natural world turned supernatural.
自然世界变得超自然。
Georgiana Davies was at a company picnic when it just started to drizzle.
乔治亚娜·戴维斯 (Georgiana Davies) 正在公司野餐，天刚开始下毛毛雨。
She never saw the blast.
她从未见过爆炸。
She didn't suspect lightning.
她并不怀疑闪电。
She says she thought it was the end of the world.
她说她认为这是世界末日。
Right before all this happened, it was like everybody just shut the sound completely out.
就在这一切发生之前，所有人都好像完全隔绝了声音。
You couldn't hear nothing.
你什么也听不到。
You couldn't move.
你无法动弹。
It was like total silence around the world in that area where I was at.
在我所在的地区，世界各地一片寂静。
And then I started hearing humming, like bees or something, or a bunch of flies going zz-zz-zz.
然后我开始听到嗡嗡声，就像蜜蜂什么的，或者一群苍蝇嗡嗡作响。
And it felt like something was going to happen, but I didn't know what.
感觉好像有什么事情要发生，但我不知道是什么。
And then I looked over and I saw Sylvia screaming.
然后我看过去，看到西尔维娅在尖叫。
And I saw her mouth open but I couldn't hear her at first.
我看到她张开嘴，但一开始我听不到她的声音。
It was like everything was shut out for-- I don't know if it was seconds or minutes.
就好像一切都被拒之门外——我不知道是几秒钟还是几分钟。
Or it could have been a second.
或者也可能是一秒钟。
And I didn't know where I was at.
我不知道自己在哪里。
That's what it was like in the moment lightning struck.
雷电劈下的那一瞬间就是这个样子。
But in the moments after, the days and weeks after, it all started to look different.
但在接下来的时刻、几天和几周后，一切看起来都开始不同了。
When something happens to you that is so big, so biblical, you definitely start to think about why.
当一件如此重大、如此符合圣经的事情发生在你身上时，你肯定会开始思考为什么。
And most of the survivors I talked to came to the same conclusion.
我采访过的大多数幸存者都得出了同样的结论。
It was not just a coincidence, where the lightning hit.
闪电击中这不仅仅是巧合。
My own opinion, I think God's trying to tell the world something.
我个人认为，我认为上帝试图告诉世界一些事情。
They say God is trying to tell us something.
他们说上帝试图告诉我们一些事情。
Well, God don't try.
好吧，上帝不要尝试。
God is telling us something.
神正在告诉我们一些事情。
God don't try to do nothing.
上帝不要试图什么都不做。
He's telling us something.
他正在告诉我们一些事情。
Beware.
提防。
He's coming back, and beware and be ready.
他要回来了，要小心并做好准备。
My belief is there's a purpose to whatever happens.
我的信念是无论发生什么都有其目的。
There's reasons behind it.
这背后是有原因的。
Well, today on our program, we try a little experiment.
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，我们尝试了一个小实验。
Usually we bring you stories of people in the middle of big experiences, whose lives are going through some sort of change, some growth, or some crisis.
通常我们会为您带来一些经历重大经历的人的故事，他们的生活正在经历某种变化、某种成长或某种危机。
But sometimes, that moment of dramatic change is only half the story.
但有时，戏剧性变化的那一刻只是故事的一半。
The other half happens after time passes and they return to revisit that moment.
另一半发生在时间过去之后，他们会回来重温那一刻。
Today's program is about what they find later and what remains of who and what they once were.
今天的节目是关于他们后来发现了什么，以及他们曾经的身份和身份还剩下什么。
Our show today in three acts.
我们今天的演出分三幕。
Act One, I Used to Bank Here But That Was Long, Long Ago, in which David Rakoff returns to the city he grew up to find buried, frozen treasure.
第一幕，《我曾经在这里存钱，但那是很久很久以前了》，大卫·拉科夫回到他长大的城市，寻找埋藏的、冰冻的宝藏。
Act Two, Exiles on Main Street.
第二幕，大街上的流放者。
A young Russian emigre returns to the heroes of his youth, the brave Soviet dissidents who risked their lives at the height of the Cold War who were forced out of the Soviet Union.
一位年轻的俄罗斯移民回到了他年轻时的英雄身边，那些勇敢的苏联持不同政见者在冷战最激烈的时期冒着生命危险被迫离开苏联。
What have they been doing all these decades, the many dissidents who resettled in comfortable houses, not just in America, but in the American suburbs?
几十年来，许多异见人士重新定居在舒适的房子里，不仅在美国，而且在美国郊区，他们都在做什么？
Act Three, Shopping for a Better Tomorrow, the story of a social experiment involving a supermarket and 6,000 poor people.
第三幕，为更美好的明天购物，讲述了一个涉及一家超市和 6,000 名穷人的社会实验的故事。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, I Used to Bank Here But That Was Long, Long Ago.
第一幕，我曾经在这里存过钱，但那是很久很久以前的事了。
David Rakoff recently flew to Toronto, where he grew up, to revisit a time in his life that for years he joked about, he downplayed, and he tried not to think about.
大卫·拉考夫 (David Rakoff) 最近飞往他长大的多伦多，重温他生命中的一段时光，多年来他开玩笑、淡化、努力不去想这段时光。
He tells the story of what he found.
他讲述了他所发现的故事。
At age 22, I had Hodgkin's disease.
22岁时，我患上了霍奇金病。
It is a form of lymphatic cancer common among young men in their 20s.
这是一种淋巴癌，常见于 20 多岁的年轻男性。
It is also highly curable, so highly curable, in fact, that I like to refer to it as "the dilettante cancer."
它的治愈率也很高，事实上，我喜欢将其称为“外行癌症”。
An old Canadian joke bears telling here.
加拿大有一个古老的笑话值得一提。
A boss says to an underling, "I'm off to Sault Ste.
一位老板对下属说：“我要去苏圣玛丽。
Marie for the weekend."
玛丽周末去。”
"Sault Ste.
“苏圣。
Marie," asks the employee, incredulous.
玛丽，”员工难以置信地问道。
"But boss, there are only whores and hockey players in Sault Ste.
“但是老板，苏圣玛丽只有妓女和曲棍球运动员。
Marie."
玛丽。”
"My wife is from Sault Ste.
“我的妻子来自苏圣玛丽。
Marie."
玛丽。”
"Oh," says the employee.
“哦，”员工说。
"What position does she play?"
“她踢什么位置？”
When I joke about Hodgkin's being the cancer for boys who do things in half measures, it is invariably to someone whose husband or brother or son has just died from Hodgkin's.
当我开玩笑说霍奇金病是那些做事半途而废的男孩的癌症时，它总是针对那些丈夫、兄弟或儿子刚刚死于霍奇金病的人。
I don't mean to denigrate other survivors or less fortunate non-survivors.
我无意诋毁其他幸存者或不幸的非幸存者。
My inappropriate wisecrack only serves to prove a point about myself.
我不恰当的俏皮话只是为了证明我自己的一个观点。
On some level, despite the fact that I received both radiation and chemotherapy, I cannot escape the feeling that I was at best a cancer tourist, that my survival means I dabbled.
在某种程度上，尽管我同时接受了放疗和化疗，但我无法摆脱这样的感觉：我充其量只是一名癌症游客，我的生存意味着我涉足其中。
Kind of been there, sort of done that.
有点去过那里，有点做过。
It has only recently occurred to me that perhaps I might stop glibly insisting that the cancer wasn't real and that the doctors popped me into an Easy-Bake Oven where a 40-watt light bulb halted the metastasis in its tracks.
直到最近我才想到，也许我可以不再喋喋不休地坚持说癌症不是真的，医生把我放进一个简易烘烤炉里，里面有一个 40 瓦的灯泡阻止了转移。
What remains some 13 years after the fact?
13年后还剩下什么？
Four small tattoos, subcutaneous black dots like compass points on my torso, near-total numbness in the very tips of my fingers, as well as a palm-sized area on my right inner thigh, also without feeling, some dry mouth, and most lastingly, three straws of my pre-chemotherapized sperm in cold storage somewhere in Toronto.
四个小纹身，躯干上像指南针一样的皮下黑点，指尖几乎完全麻木，右大腿内侧有一个手掌大小的区域，也没有感觉，有些口干，最持久的是，我在多伦多某处冷藏的三根化疗前的精子。
Like millions of tiny Walt Disneys, they wait, frozen, until the day when I will return and have them conjoined with some willing ovum and thereby fulfill their zygotic destiny, growing into children who will eventually go on to break my heart and not talk to me.
就像数以百万计的小华特迪士尼一样，它们等待着，冻结着，直到我回来的那一天，让它们与一些自愿的卵子结合，从而实现它们的合子命运，长成孩子，最终让我心碎，不再跟我说话。
More than a desire for kids who can be fairly boring, truth be told, I just want to know where the sperm is.
说实话，我不仅仅是对那些相当无聊的孩子的渴望，我只是想知道精子在哪里。
Easier said than done, as it turns out, because since that time, I have moved, my parents have moved, the sperm bank has moved, and the cancer hospital has moved.
事实证明，说起来容易做起来难，因为从那时起，我搬家了，我的父母搬了，精子库搬了，癌症医院也搬了。
The traces have been thoroughly kicked over, which suits me fine.
痕迹已经彻底消除，这很适合我。
I'm not by nature terribly sentimental.
我生来就不是一个非常感性的人。
I'm not a photo taker.
我不是一个拍照者。
I have no scrapbooks.
我没有剪贴簿。
I have attempted to never look back-- until now.
我曾尝试永不回头——直到现在。
Along with my scar, my tattoos, and my numbness, these straws of sperm are the only things I have left from that time in my life, a period of 18 months that I have generally tried to not think about.
连同我的伤疤、我的纹身和我的麻木，这些精子吸管是我生命中唯一剩下的东西，那段 18 个月的时间里，我通常试图不去想它。
13 years later, at the age of 35, it's starting to seem like bad juju to continue to ignore it.
13 年后，在 35 岁的时候，继续忽视它开始显得很糟糕。
And so I am off to find the straws, just in time for their putative, microscopic Bar Mitzvahs.
于是我就出发去寻找吸管，正好赶上他们所谓的微观成人礼。
I was treated at PMH, the Princess Margaret Hospital, the main cancer facility in Toronto.
我在玛格丽特公主医院 PMH 接受治疗，这是多伦多主要的癌症治疗机构。
If you were a child at any time from the 1930s through the 1950s living anywhere in the British empire, chances are you were inundated with images of the two young princesses, Elizabeth and Margaret.
如果你是 20 世纪 30 年代到 1950 年代的孩子，生活在大英帝国的任何地方，那么你很可能会被两位年轻公主伊丽莎白和玛格丽特的图像所淹没。
Elizabeth would eventually become Queen, of course, but Margaret was always considered to be somewhat prettier.
当然，伊丽莎白最终会成为女王，但玛格丽特总是被认为更漂亮一些。
And simply by virtue of her thwarted ascendancy to the throne, she was less duty bound, and consequently more fun, kinky almost.
仅仅因为她登基受阻，她的责任就少了，因此更加有趣，甚至有点古怪。
As she grew up and had her serial doomed romances, Margaret gave the commonwealth public a taste of the kind of low-rent scandal we could later come to expect from the House of Windsor.
随着玛格丽特长大并经历了一系列注定失败的恋情，她让英联邦公众尝到了我们后来可以从温莎王室期待的那种低租金丑闻的滋味。
It's not like she was a slattern or an embarrassment.
她并不像个邋遢的人，也不像一个令人尴尬的人。
Calling it the Princess Margaret Hospital is not like naming it the Billy Carter.
称其为玛格丽特公主医院与将其命名为比利卡特医院不同。
It's more affectionate than that, more glamorous.
比那更加深情，更加迷人。
The Tricia Nixon might be more apt.
特里西娅·尼克松可能更合适。
Hanging on the wall on the way to the radiation room in the old hospital was a photograph of Princess Margaret's hand, taken on the occasion of the inauguration of the building.
在前往老医院放射室的路上，墙上挂着一张玛格丽特公主的手的照片，是在大楼落成典礼上拍摄的。
It was actually an x-ray photograph, so her highness's jewelry glows white against the bones in the vaporous gray of her invisible flesh.
这实际上是一张 X 光照片，所以殿下的珠宝在她看不见的肉质中的骨头的映衬下发出白色的光芒。
I look at it every time I go for treatment.
我每次去治疗时都会看它。
The radiation room itself is a lead-lined interior chamber of the hospital.
放射室本身是医院的一个内衬铅的房间。
Two red laser beams cross over the exact center of the table where the patients lie.
两束红色激光束穿过患者所躺的手术台正中央。
Using the cross of four small black tattoos on my torso, the technicians line me up and ready me for the thousands of rads of radiation.
技术人员利用我躯干上四个黑色小纹身的十字架，将我排成一行，让我做好承受数千拉德辐射的准备。
The machine is bulbous, huge, and a dull hospital-green, a death ray straight out of '50s sci-fi.
这台机器是球状的，巨大的，呈暗淡的医院绿色，就像是五十年代科幻小说中的死亡射线。
I lie down and look up.
我躺下，抬起头来。
Above my head, directly at eye level, someone has drawn a hastily-rendered happy face in magic marker.
在我的头顶上方，与视线齐平的地方，有人用魔法笔画了一张匆忙绘制的笑脸。
Underneath that is written the message, "give us a smile." Like Rita Hayworth's picture that graced the side of the atom bomb they dropped on Bikini Atoll, there's something so pathetic, so vastly outmatched about this little happy face.
下面写着这样的信息：“给我们一个微笑。”就像丽塔·海华斯 (Rita Hayworth) 为他们在比基尼环礁投下的原子弹侧面增光添彩的照片一样，这张幸福的小脸有一种如此可悲、如此巨大的无法比拟的东西。
It is like putting a garnish on annihilation.
这就像给毁灭加上装饰。
Still, I never fail to smile.
尽管如此，我还是忍不住微笑。
Even when I reach the point in the treatments when most of my hair has fallen out and my throat has been burned to such an extent that I cannot swallow, I smile.
即使当我的治疗达到了大部分头发脱落、喉咙被灼伤到无法吞咽的程度时，我仍然微笑。
[MUSIC - "CAN'T TAKE MY EYES OFF YOU" BY FRANKIE VALLI]
[音乐 - 弗兰基·瓦利的《无法将我的目光从你身上移开》]
They haven't stopped at the happy face, either.
他们也没有停留在幸福的脸上。
Every time the lead door closes, latching with a booming clank, so, too, begins the music, the same song every time, the same place in the same song every time.
每当铅门关闭时，伴随着一声隆隆的叮当声，音乐也开始播放，每次都是同一首歌，每次都是同一首歌的同一个地方。
The full horn section buildup of the chorus to the song-- "you're just too good to be true." The plutonium drops down into the central cone, a warm wind starts to blow on my chest, indicating that I'm now getting the equivalent of a lifetime's worth of the recommended dose of gamma radiation, and I smile.
这首歌的副歌部分由完整的号角部分组成——“你太好了，难以置信。”钚落入中心锥体，一股温暖的风开始吹过我的胸口，这表明我现在正在接受相当于一生推荐剂量的伽马辐射，我笑了。
The harvesting of sperm before chemotherapy is a fairly standard practice.
化疗前采集精子是相当标准的做法。
Chemo makes you sterile.
化疗会让你不育。
They suggest it to most male patients of a certain age.
他们向大多数特定年龄的男性患者建议这样做。
It is certainly the most important sperm sample I've ever given, but it is not the first.
这无疑是我提供过的最重要的精子样本，但这不是第一个。
In 1982 as a freshman, I sold it once.
1982年，作为一名新生，我卖过一次。
Every bulletin board in my dormitory on 114th Street and Amsterdam Avenue had the following flyer-- "College men, make money now." It was an advertisement for a midtown sperm bank.
我位于第 114 街和阿姆斯特丹大道的宿舍里的每个公告牌上都贴有这样的传单——“大学生，现在就赚钱。”这是市中心精子库的广告。
We would be paid close to $50 to do, under somewhat more controlled circumstances, the very thing that was occupying a great deal of our waking lives anyway.
我们会得到近 50 美元的报酬，在更受控制的情况下去做这件事，无论如何，这件事占据了我们清醒生活的大部分时间。
The lab was very interested in our seed, the sperm of the Ivy League.
实验室对我们的种子——常春藤盟校的精子非常感兴趣。
There's something so obscenely vital, so borderline eugenic about that image, imbued with a potency and a Riefenstahlian vision of the future.
这张照片里有一种极其重要的东西，非常接近优生学，充满了力量和里芬斯塔式的未来愿景。
It was a stereotype much greater than the actual sum of its parts, I can assure you, given some of the knock-kneed Hebrews I went to school with, myself included.
我可以向你保证，这是一种刻板印象，远大于其各部分的实际总和，考虑到我上学时和一些外翻膝的希伯来人，包括我自己。
I remember nothing from that day.
那天我什么都不记得了。
I cannot tell you if there were dirty magazines, although I suspect there were.
我不能告诉你是否有肮脏的杂志，尽管我怀疑有。
I cannot remember being embarrassed, although I'm sure I was.
我不记得自己感到尴尬，尽管我确信我确实感到尴尬。
And I cannot remember what I was paid, although $40 cash rings a bell.
虽然 40 美元的现金让我想起了，但我不记得我付了多少钱。
The conflation of climax in commerce cannot have failed to escape my notice.
商业高潮的融合不可能没有逃过我的注意。
At age 17, it felt like sexual transgression.
17岁时，这感觉就像是性越轨。
I suppose it still does, since until this moment, I have never told anyone about it.
我想现在仍然如此，因为直到这一刻，我还没有告诉过任何人这件事。
It is now a gray Toronto day in January of the new century.
现在是新世纪一月多伦多的灰色一天。
The new Princess Margaret facility is beautiful, occupying an old art deco insurance building.
玛格丽特公主的新设施非常漂亮，坐落在一栋古老的装饰艺术保险大楼内。
It is imposing and gray and elegant and graced in the center with a soaring, six-story atrium.
它雄伟、灰色、优雅，中心有一个高耸的六层中庭。
It is nothing like the old hospital where I was treated.
这与我接受治疗的旧医院完全不同。
I feel a little jealous as I walk in.
当我走进去的时候，我感到有点嫉妒。
There's even a multi-faith chapel which I don't recall from the old place.
甚至还有一个多信仰教堂，我不记得以前的地方了。
Outside of it, on a white board, someone on staff has written, "just a thought," and then a quote-- "joy is not in things, it is in us." It is attributed to one Robert Wagner, whose dates are 1813 to 1883.
在它外面的一块白板上，工作人员写下了“只是一个想法”，然后引用了一句话——“快乐不在于事物，而在于我们。”它被认为是罗伯特·瓦格纳 (Robert Wagner) 创作的，创作日期为 1813 年至 1883 年。
Presumably this is a different Robert Wagner than the wattle-concealing, turtleneck-wearing star of The Towering Inferno and Heart To Heart.
想必这是一个与《高耸的地狱》和《心连心》中隐藏肉桂、穿着高领毛衣的明星不同的罗伯特·瓦格纳。
So different a Robert Wagner, in fact, that when I tried to look him up in my Bartlett's Quotations, he is not listed.
事实上，罗伯特·瓦格纳是如此不同，以至于当我试图在巴特利特语录中查找他时，他没有被列出。
Who is listed there, with exactly the same dates, however, is Richard Wagner, he of the proto-Nazi operas of heroic Ubermenschen.
然而，名单上的人物是理查德·瓦格纳（Richard Wagner），日期完全相同，他创作了原纳粹歌剧《超级英雄》（Ubermenschen）。
Funnily enough, Bartlett's doesn't list this lovely caveat against materialism among the composer's notable quotes.
有趣的是，巴特利特并没有将这个反对唯物主义的可爱警告列为作曲家的著名引言。
But it's a lot more suitable for an oncology chapel after all than "To be German means to carry on a matter for its own sake," don't you think?
但它毕竟比“作为德国人意味着为了自己的利益而做事”更适合肿瘤学教堂，你不觉得吗？
This new place is completely devoid of anything I might recall.
这个新地方完全没有我记得的任何东西。
Not a single doctor who treated me still works here.
没有一个治疗过我的医生仍然在这里工作。
The fondly remembered x-ray photograph of Princess Margaret's hand is also nowhere to be seen.
令人怀念的玛格丽特公主手部X光照片也不见踪影。
I ask the volunteer at the desk if they brought it here from the old facility.
我问前台的志愿者是不是从旧设施带到这里的。
"It was on the way to radiation," I say.
“它正在走向辐射。”我说。
"I was also a radiation patient," she replies.
“我也是一名放射患者，”她回答道。
"I don't remember it." I then ask her if she remembers the music during treatment.
“我不记得了。”然后我问她是否记得治疗期间的音乐。
She doesn't dismiss my recollection, but she's not sure herself, it was so long ago.
她并没有否认我的记忆，但她自己也不确定，那是很久以前的事了。
All memory is porous.
所有的记忆都是多孔的。
Details can change or go missing entirely, particularly in moments of physical peril.
细节可能会改变或完全丢失，尤其是在身体面临危险的时刻。
A kind of amnesia goes hand in hand sickness, and a good thing, too.
一种失忆症与手病并存，也是一件好事。
But of these two details-- that x-ray photograph, that music-- I am sure.
但对于这两个细节——那张X光照片、那首音乐——我确信无疑。
I think.
我认为。
It's not all that hard to locate the missing sperm lab.
找到失踪的精子实验室并不难。
A few phone calls and I find that it has been moved lock, stock, and barrel to another more centrally-located hospital.
打了几个电话，我发现它已经被锁、库存和桶转移到另一家更中心的医院。
When I finally call them up directly to see if they still have my straws, they know all too well who I am.
当我最终直接打电话给他们，看看他们是否还有我的吸管时，他们太清楚我是谁了。
They have been waiting for me, or more precisely, for my money.
他们一直在等我，或者更准确地说，是等我的钱。
There are apparently years of storage fees outstanding.
显然有多年的仓储费未付。
I owe close to $1,000.
我欠了近1000美元。
What would have happened if I had never checked up on this, I wonder?
我想知道，如果我从未检查过这一点，会发生什么？
Would I one day be walking past some pawn shop in Toronto, and there in the window next to the watches, the saxophone, the old Canadian Legion of Honor war medallions are three straws of my semen falling out in a dusty shaft of sunlight?
有一天，我会不会路过多伦多的一家当铺，在窗户旁边的手表、萨克斯管、旧的加拿大荣誉军团战争奖章上，看到我的三根精液从一束尘土飞扬的阳光下掉下来？
The folks at the lab view me with suspicion, but not because I am a deadbeat dad.
实验室里的人用怀疑的眼光看待我，但这并不是因为我是个游手好闲的父亲。
What the folks at the lab seem disquieted by is this radio story.
实验室里的人们似乎对这个广播故事感到不安。
They don't really understand why I want to tell it.
他们真的不明白我为什么要告诉它。
I am reduced to using icky tricks, preambling each phone call by describing myself as having been "a cancer patient," which seems a little melodramatic to me and leaves them completely unmoved anyway.
我沦落到使用令人讨厌的伎俩，在每次通话前都将自己描述为“癌症患者”，这对我来说似乎有点夸张，但无论如何让他们完全不为所动。
Or if I'm not being treacly, I'm playing the ridiculous schlemiel, stammering and apologizing.
或者，如果我不是甜言蜜语，我就是在扮演可笑的施莱米尔，结结巴巴地道歉。
It leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth, and all to no avail.
这让我的嘴里有一种不好的味道，但一切都无济于事。
What begins as frosty but cordial relations between the nursing manager and myself devolves steadily.
我和护理经理之间一开始冷淡但亲切的关系稳步发展。
I fly to Toronto and she refuses to speak with me outright.
我飞往多伦多，但她拒绝直接与我交谈。
I am Scrooge, revisiting Christmas past, walking through a room, trying to right a wrong and being completely unheard and unable to physically manifest.
我是斯克鲁奇，重温过去的圣诞节，走过一个房间，试图纠正错误，但完全被忽视，也无法实际显现。
I will not be able to see the facility, tour the vault or wherever it is they keep the straws, or ask her my many medical questions.
我将无法参观该设施，参观金库或存放吸管的任何地方，也无法向她询问许多医疗问题。
My audience with the sperm of the Ivy League is denied.
我与常春藤盟校的精子的会面被拒绝了。
I recall the last time I saw these fugitive children of mine.
我记得最后一次见到这些逃亡的孩子是什么时候。
It was in the summer of 1987.
那是1987年的夏天。
By that time, my illness was fairly advanced.
那时，我的病已经相当严重了。
I was some 35 pounds underweight, an old man at the age of 23.
我当时体重不足 35 磅，已经是 23 岁的老人了。
Virtually the last thing on my mind was onanism.
事实上，我最不想看到的就是手淫。
I had been told if I could get the sample downtown to the lab within 45 minutes, I could do the harvest at home.
有人告诉我，如果我能在 45 分钟内将样本送到市中心的实验室，我就可以在家进行采集。
To this end, the lab technician at the sperm bank had given me some sterile containers.
为此，精子库的化验员给了我一些无菌容器。
In the abstract, this sounded far more comfortable, producing my sample in the privacy of my childhood bedroom.
抽象地说，这听起来更舒服，在我童年卧室的私密环境中制作我的样品。
But privacy isn't really the name of the game when your mother has to drive you to the hospital.
但当你的母亲不得不开车送你去医院时，隐私并不是真正的游戏名称。
I've never been licensed by a sitting government to drive a car, and I'm far too weak to take public transport.
我从未获得现任政府的驾驶执照，而且我的身体太虚弱，无法乘坐公共交通工具。
By happy coincidence, my mother's office is two blocks away from the hospital.
巧合的是，我母亲的办公室离医院只有两个街区。
After breakfast, she says to me euphemistically, "I'm going to start the car.
吃完早饭，她委婉地对我说：“我要发动车了。
Why don't you go upstairs and get ready," emphasis and winking italics my own.
你为什么不上楼做好准备呢？”强调并用我自己的斜体字眨眼。
If this freaks her out, she doesn't let on.
如果这让她感到害怕，她不会表现出来。
She's a physician herself, so it might just seem par for the course to tell your youngest child to go upstairs and salute the archbishop and then join you in the car.
她自己也是一名医生，所以告诉你最小的孩子上楼向大主教致敬，然后和你一起上车，这似乎是理所当然的。
My deed done-- not my finest effort after what has arguably been half a lifetime of practice-- I put on my coat and grab the jar.
我的行为已经完成了——这并不是我经过半辈子的练习后所能做出的最大努力——我穿上外套，抓起罐子。
It is made of clear plastic.
它由透明塑料制成。
In college, my friend's parents came to New York for a psychoanalysts convention.
大学时，我朋友的父母来纽约参加精神分析师会议。
Getting onto a hotel elevator crowded with their colleagues, my friend turned to his mother and stage whispered, "Jocasta, I want you." But it is just me and my mother in the car.
走进挤满同事的酒店电梯，我的朋友转向他的母亲，在舞台上低声说道：“乔卡斯塔，我想要你。”但车里只有我和妈妈。
There are no Freudians to entertain with the discomfort of the Oedipal situation.
没有弗洛伊德主义者可以忍受俄狄浦斯情境的不适。
Even in my weakened state, I'm certainly not going to ride next to my mother with a transparent vial of spooge in my lap.
即使在我虚弱的状态下，我也肯定不会在我的母亲旁边骑着一瓶透明的海绵。
I look around the kitchen for a suitable bag and find the perfect one.
我在厨房里四处寻找合适的包，最终找到了最完美的一款。
It is four by six of white paper.
它是四乘六的白纸。
It has clearly been in the kitchen since I was very young, because when I turn it over, I see that it's printed with the image of an orange pumpkin and a black cat, and in dripping, blood-soaked calligraphy, the words "trick or treat."
它显然从我很小的时候就一直在厨房里了，因为当我把它翻过来时，我看到上面印着一个橙色的南瓜和一只黑猫的图案，还有滴着血的书法，“不给糖就捣蛋”几个字。
Among my destinations on this trip up to Toronto is the site of the old hospital.
我这次多伦多之行的目的地之一就是旧医院所在地。
I'm told it's being used now as a homeless shelter.
我听说它现在被用作无家可归者收容所。
It was in one of Toronto's few rubby-dub neighborhoods.
它位于多伦多为数不多的红宝石社区之一。
There were a lot of hookers and also a Christian ministry back when I was a patient.
当我还是个病人的时候，那里有很多妓女，也有一个基督教事工。
The area has clearly been cleaned up, because I don't see any hookers or visibly Christian folks either.
该地区显然已被清理干净，因为我也没有看到任何妓女或明显的基督徒。
And the purported homeless people going into the old Princess Margaret all look like backpacking Northern Europeans.
而进入老玛格丽特公主号的那些所谓的无家可归者看上去都像是背包旅行的北欧人。
I stand in the circular driveway, the place where the smoking patients used to congregate with their IV stands and enjoy their last cigarettes.
我站在环形车道上，吸烟的病人过去常常聚集在静脉注射架上，享受最后一支香烟。
I think of that song "This Used to be My Playground." I'm trying to actually feel something about the whole thing as I stand there, but I'm not really coming up with anything.
我想起那首歌“这曾经是我的游乐场”。当我站在那里时，我试图真正感受到整个事情的一些东西，但我并没有真正想出任何东西。
The building is possibly one of the more important structures in my life.
该建筑可能是我一生中最重要的建筑之一。
I feel like I should well up with some sort of nostalgic yearning, mourning my youth, anything.
我觉得我应该涌起某种怀旧的向往，哀悼我的青春，什么的。
But it's just not happening, which is very strange.
但它就是没有发生，这很奇怪。
Or not.
或不。
Once on my way home from radiation, a man came running out of the Knights of Columbus chapter near the hospital.
有一次，在我从辐射中回家的路上，一名男子从医院附近的哥伦布骑士分会跑出来。
Another man came running after him.
另一个男人追赶着他。
And like a cartoon panel come to life, the man giving chase actually yelled, "Stop!
就像卡通片栩栩如生一样，追赶的男子实际上大喊：“停下！
Thief!" I remember thinking to myself, "well, that's very cliche." I was close to the robber.
小偷！”我记得我心里想：“好吧，这太陈词滥调了。”我离强盗很近。
I could have stuck my foot out and tripped him perhaps, but I didn't.
也许我本可以伸出脚绊倒他，但我没有。
He made it across the street, dodging traffic, and was out of sight in a moment.
他避开车流，穿过马路，一会儿就消失在人们的视线中。
The man from the Knights of Columbus stood frustrated on the sidewalk as the cars rushed by.
当汽车呼啸而过时，哥伦布骑士团的男子沮丧地站在人行道上。
He turned and gave me a dirty look for my inaction.
他转过身来，因为我的无所作为而恶狠狠地看了我一眼。
I wanted to say something.
我想说点什么。
I wanted to explain how weak and tired and sick I was at that point, but more than that how I had essentially let go of any sense of agency.
我想解释我当时是多么虚弱、疲惫和生病，但更重要的是我是如何从根本上放弃任何代理感的。
I could lie on a table.
我可以躺在桌子上。
They could shoot me full of gamma rays.
他们可以向我发射大量伽马射线。
I would eat what was put in front of me.
我会吃放在我面前的东西。
The hair could fall from my head.
头发可能会从我的头上掉下来。
My throat could be burned.
我的喉咙可能会被烧伤。
But I was not involved.
但我没有参与其中。
I was a stranger here.
我是这里的陌生人。
That he could even see me standing there seemed vaguely surprising.
他甚至能看到我站在那里，这似乎有点令人惊讶。
They say that times of crisis are the true test of one's character.
人们说，危机时刻才是对一个人品格的真正考验。
I really wouldn't know, since my character took a powder that year, leaving in its stead a jewel-bright hardness.
我真的不知道，因为那一年我的角色服用了粉末，取而代之的是宝石般明亮的硬度。
I was at my very cleverest that year, an airless, relentless kind of quippiness.
那一年我是最聪明的，有一种沉闷、无情的俏皮。
Every time a complex human emotion threatened to break the surface of my consciousness, out would come a joke.
每当一种复杂的人类情感威胁到我的意识表面时，就会出现一个笑话。
Come on, give us a smile.
来吧，给我们一个微笑。
I was Thanatos' rodeo clown.
我是塔纳托斯的牛仔竞技小丑。
I still am.
我仍然是。
And Eros' as well, as it turns out.
事实证明，爱神也是如此。
Years later, in a tender embrace in bed with my first real boyfriend, he said my name.
多年后，当我和第一个真正的男朋友在床上温柔地拥抱时，他说出了我的名字。
"Oh, David." I stopped, sat up, and responded in my best Ed Wynn, "mm-yesss?" This kind of behavior essentially killed things between us.
“哦，大卫。”我停下来，坐起来，用我最好的艾德·韦恩回答，“嗯——是的？”这种行为基本上毁了我们之间的关系。
There was a period during the illness when I was at my very sickest, at 115 pounds hovering in and out of consciousness.
患病期间有一段时间我病情最严重，体重 115 磅，时而昏迷不醒。
This month and a half was the one period in my life when I was not faking it, where I was not deflecting every emotion with repartee.
这一个半月是我一生中唯一一个没有假装的时期，没有用妙语连珠来转移每一种情绪。
That it would take millions of cancer cells lining up for their big Esther Williams finale in my lymphatic system for me to finally shut up is sobering.
需要数以百万计的癌细胞在我的淋巴系统中排队等候埃斯特·威廉姆斯的大结局，我才能最终闭嘴，这发人深省。
Or would be, were I to think about, which of course I choose not to.
或者，如果我考虑的话，我当然选择不考虑。
What remains of your past if you didn't allow yourself to feel it when it happened?
如果当事情发生时你不允许自己去感受它，那么你的过去还剩下什么？
If you don't have your experiences in the moment, if you gloss them over with jokes or zoom past them, you end up with curiously dispassionate memories, procedural and de-populated.
如果你没有当下的经历，如果你用笑话来掩盖它们或快速掠过它们，你最终会得到奇怪的冷静的记忆，程序性的和稀疏的。
It's as if a neutron bomb went off and all you're left with are hospital corridors where you're scanning the walls for familiar photographs.
就好像一颗中子弹爆炸了，你只剩下医院走廊，在那里你扫描墙壁寻找熟悉的照片。
Sometimes in the absence of emotion, your only recourse is to surround yourself with objects, assemble the relics about you, as I am doing in flying to Toronto to commune with my little Eskimo Pie children.
有时，在缺乏情感的情况下，你唯一的办法就是用物体包围自己，收集关于你的遗物，就像我飞往多伦多与我的爱斯基摩派孩子们交流时所做的那样。
For the moment, this physical evidence will have to serve as proof that the illness was real, because even now, I only half-believe what I'm telling you.
目前，这些物理证据必须作为疾病真实存在的证据，因为即使是现在，我也只是半相信我告诉你的话。
David Rakoff in New York.
大卫·拉考夫在纽约。
Coming up, little pinko houses for you and me.
即将到来，为你和我准备的小粉红屋。
Soviets move into Capitalist neighborhoods in America.
苏联人进入美国的资本主义社区。
And more in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续时，国际公共广播电台将提供更多信息。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, What Remains, stories in which people return to a scene of big, dramatic change years after the fact.
今天的节目《剩下的》讲述了人们在事发多年后回到发生巨大戏剧性变化的场景的故事。
We have arrived at act two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, Exiles on Main Street.
第二幕，大街上的流放者。
What remains of the Cold War now, years later?
多年后的今天，冷战还剩下什么？
Keith Gessen's family were Soviet Jews, who emigrated from Moscow in 1981 when Keith was six.
基思·格森 (Keith Gessen) 的家人是苏联犹太人，他们于 1981 年从莫斯科移民到基思 (Keith Gessen)，当时基思 6 岁。
They eventually moved to the well-off suburb of Newton, Massachusetts, where Keith learned to revere certain heroes of the Cold War, heroes who included people just down the street.
他们最终搬到了马萨诸塞州牛顿的富裕郊区，基思在那里学会了尊敬冷战时期的某些英雄，这些英雄包括住在街上的人们。
Our house in Newton looked like all the other houses, which in turn looked like ours.
我们在牛顿的房子看起来像所有其他的房子，而其他房子又看起来像我们的。
But in fact, our home was an enclave of Moscow culture.
但事实上，我们的家是莫斯科文化的飞地。
Our best loved writers were those who had stood up to Stalin and died for it.
我们最喜爱的作家是那些反抗斯大林并为之献身的作家。
The only framed photo in the entire house was of me at 12 with a kindly old man who everyone assumed was my grandfather, but who was, in fact, Andrei Sakharov, the inventor of the Soviet hydrogen bomb who later became a dissident and winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.
整个房子里唯一一张镶框的照片是我12岁时和一位慈祥的老人在一起的照片，每个人都以为他是我的祖父，但实际上他是安德烈·萨哈罗夫，苏联氢弹的发明者，后来成为持不同政见者和诺贝尔和平奖获得者。
And then there was the soundtrack to my childhood.
然后是我童年的配乐。
I put in my hours of rap music and The Doors.
我投入了数小时的说唱音乐和《The Doors》。
But when my parents controlled the tape deck, we listened to Alexander Galich, a Soviet dissident who sang with great pathos of labor camps, executioners, and exiles.
但当我父母控制录音机时，我们听的是苏联持不同政见者亚历山大·加利奇（Alexander Galich）的歌，他的歌曲充满了对劳改营、刽子手和流放者的悲痛。
[MUSIC BY ALEXANDER GALICH] These words were playing in cars and homes all across the suburbs of the Northeast states, where the Soviet dissidents landed in the '70s.
[亚历山大·加利奇音乐] 这些话在整个东北各州郊区的汽车和家庭中播放，那里是苏联持不同政见者于 70 年代登陆的地方。
Even now, after the Soviet Union has collapsed and they could go home, many of the most prominent former dissidents live in places like Revere, Massachusetts, Aberdeen, New Jersey, and Ithaca, New York.
即使是现在，在苏联解体、他们可以回家之后，许多最著名的前持不同政见者仍然居住在马萨诸塞州里维尔、新泽西州阿伯丁和纽约州伊萨卡等地。
It never made sense to me.
这对我来说从来没有意义。
A whole heroic generation of Russians had gone from a place of drama and conviction to these dull, groomed streets.
整整一代英雄的俄罗斯人已经从充满戏剧性和信念的地方走向了这些沉闷、整洁的街道。
And I decided at long last to figure out why.
我最终决定找出原因。
My name is Pavel Litvinov.
我叫帕维尔·李特维诺夫。
I'm a physics teacher in Hackley School.
我是哈克利学校的一名物理老师。
And we are standing in my lab.
我们站在我的实验室里。
It's a physics lab.
这是一个物理实验室。
That's where I teach and spend several hours every day, five days a week.
那是我每周教书五天、每天花几个小时的地方。
The Hackley School is a prep school on a pretty, hillside campus in Tarrytown, New York.
哈克利学校是一所预科学校，位于纽约塔里敦一个美丽的山坡校园。
But Litvinov's story of being a humdrum physics teacher won't fly with me.
但李维诺夫关于成为一名单调的物理老师的故事并不适合我。
I know who he is.
我知道他是谁。
Well, we see our football field, but they actually play lacrosse because it's lacrosse season.
好吧，我们看到了我们的足球场，但他们实际上在打长曲棍球，因为现在是长曲棍球赛季。
This is the Litvinov who, when Soviet tanks entered Czechoslovakia in August, 1968, led the most famous Soviet protest of the Cold War era, a protest of eight people in Red Square who were quickly beaten up, arrested, and packed off to Siberia, labor camps, and a psychiatric institution.
这就是李特维诺夫，当苏联坦克于 1968 年 8 月进入捷克斯洛伐克时，他领导了冷战时期最著名的苏联抗议活动，红场上的八个人抗议，他们很快遭到殴打、逮捕，并被送往西伯利亚、劳改营和精神病院。
A few nights before going out into Red Square, Litvinov attended a get together where Alexander Galich himself, the singer so popular in my family's Cutlass Sierra, performed a new song about resisting authority, whose most ringing phrase was a call to arms.
在前往红场的前几天晚上，李特维诺夫参加了一次聚会，亚历山大·加利奇（Alexander Galich）本人，这位在我们家的弯刀塞拉（Cutlass Sierra）中非常受欢迎的歌手，表演了一首关于反抗权威的新歌，其中最响亮的短语是战斗的号召。
"Will you dare go out into the square at the appointed hour?" Well, Litvinov dared.
“你敢在约定的时间到广场去吗？”好吧，李维诺夫敢。
He spent four years in Siberia and was forced out of the Soviet Union in 1974.
他在西伯利亚度过了四年，并于 1974 年被迫离开苏联。
For many people, it's just very strange that I was ready to risk my freedom and maybe even life.
对于很多人来说，这很奇怪，我准备冒着自由甚至生命的危险。
It's definitely different.
这绝对是不同的。
And they look at me, a middle-aged man and so on.
他们看着我，一个中年男人等等。
And I don't look like the one who would do such things.
而且我看起来不像是会做这种事的人。
And they would be very much amazed.
他们会非常惊讶。
It's not as if Litvinov stopped his political activity when he arrived in the states.
李维诺夫抵达美国后并没有停止他的政治活动。
Until the Soviet Union collapsed, he gave speeches, published a chronicle of Soviet human rights abuses, and served on the board of Amnesty International.
在苏联解体之前，他发表演讲，出版了苏联侵犯人权的编年史，并在国际特赦组织董事会任职。
But in America, politics were merely politics, not a way of being.
但在美国，政治仅仅是政治，而不是一种存在方式。
Galich himself came to United States after immigration years ago after that.
加利奇本人在几年前移民后来到美国。
And we had a concert for him.
我们为他举办了一场音乐会。
A small concert, maybe about 40 people in some place across the river in Nyack.
一场小型音乐会，大概有 40 人左右，地点在尼亚克河对岸的某个地方。
And he started to sing his songs.
他开始唱他的歌。
And in America, it didn't make much sense.
而在美国，这没有多大意义。
It still was great poetry, great songs.
它仍然是伟大的诗歌、伟大的歌曲。
But somehow, it didn't sound, and even Galich didn't sound the same.
但不知怎的，听起来就不一样了，就连加利奇听起来也不一样。
I remember listening to him in Moscow apartments when he was singing for dissidents, when the feeling of danger, feeling that tomorrow somebody can be arrested, some people were in prison, some people in labor camp, in mental hospital for their dissident activity.
我记得在莫斯科的公寓里听他唱歌，当时他为持不同政见者唱歌，当时有危险的感觉，感觉明天有人可能会被捕，有些人因为持不同政见者的活动而入狱，有些人在劳改营，在精神病院。
Everything was so sharp and so painful that Galich's songs were just a very subtle, very desperate thing.
一切都是那么尖锐、那么痛苦，加利奇的歌只是一种非常微妙、非常绝望的东西。
He tells me that he doesn't regret coming here, that the achievements he's proud of these days are his successes with his students.
他告诉我，他不后悔来到这里，这些天他引以为傲的成就是他与学生的成功。
Litvinov see nothing incongruous about Soviet dissidents settling in the American suburbs.
李特维诺夫认为苏联持不同政见者在美国郊区定居并没有什么不协调的地方。
That's what is great about America, because everyone in America is something, has some experience.
这就是美国的伟大之处，因为美国的每个人都是有地位的，都有一些经验。
You go and you find out that on the next street, there could be mobsters, there could be Soviet dissidents, there could be some character or some guy who made $20 million because he invented some software.
你走过去，你会发现在下一条街上，可能有黑帮，可能有苏联持不同政见者，可能有某个人物或某个因为发明某种软件而赚了 2000 万美元的人。
And that's what is incredible in the United States.
这就是美国令人难以置信的事情。
And yet his old friends in Russia are still on the front lines.
然而他在俄罗斯的老朋友仍然在前线。
Sergei Kovalev was Yeltsin's human rights commissioner and a longtime deputy in the Duma.
谢尔盖·科瓦列夫是叶利钦的人权专员，也是杜马的长期代表。
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] is an important human rights activist.
[无法辨认]是一位重要的人权活动家。
And I cannot rid myself of the notion that there is another life that Litvinov might have lived, a heroic life in which he stayed in Russia.
我无法摆脱这样的想法：李维诺夫可能过着另一种生活，一种他留在俄罗斯的英雄生活。
I ask him about it, about whether he ever thinks about that life.
我问他这件事，问他是否想过那样的生活。
And finally, he tells me that of course he's thought about it.
最后，他告诉我他当然考虑过这个问题。
It would have meant going to a labor camp instead of coming here.
这意味着去劳改营而不是来这里。
And if he had come out alive, he tells me, well, then yes, he likely would have become a politician or activist after the regime collapsed.
他告诉我，如果他活着出来，那么，是的，他很可能会在政权垮台后成为一名政治家或活动家。
He's very polite as he says this.
他说这话的时候非常有礼貌。
If he had survived.
如果他还活着的话。
Because millions died in those camps.
因为数百万人死在这些难民营中。
And it dawns on me, more powerfully than it ever has, that in asking him if he feels out of place here, I'm asking if he might not rather be dead.
我比以往任何时候都更强烈地意识到，当我问他是否感觉这里格格不入时，我是在问他是否宁愿死。
By the time the Soviet Union did collapse and there was nothing preventing him from moving back, he felt it was too late.
当苏联解体并且没有什么能阻止他回去时，他觉得已经太晚了。
I already became very American.
我已经变得非常美国化了。
My life is here.
我的生命就在这里。
At your trial, you were talking about the attitude of the authorities to the people.
在对你的审判中，你谈论的是当局对人民的态度。
And you said, "this is what I have fought against and what I shall continue to fight against for the rest of my life." Could you have imagined then this future that you've had?
你说：“这就是我所反对的，也是我余生将继续反对的。”你能想象你所拥有的未来吗？
About continue it the rest of my life, I still believe in those things.
关于我的余生，我仍然相信这些事情。
I still, when I can, contribute whatever little I can contribute to that.
我仍然会在力所能及的情况下，尽我所能地为此做出贡献。
I do it.
我做。
But it's a different life.
但这是另一种生活。
And you change with age.
而且你会随着年龄的增长而改变。
When I left Russia, I was 33 and now I am almost 60.
当我离开俄罗斯时，我33岁，现在我快60岁了。
So the changes are there.
所以变化就在那里。
So I'm a different person.
所以我是一个不同的人。
I still feel a lot of connection, but I know that I am American.
我仍然感受到很多联系，但我知道我是美国人。
In 1993, Yeltsin decided to bomb the first Russian parliament.
1993年，叶利钦决定轰炸第一届俄罗斯议会。
I was so disgusted with that.
我对此非常反感。
And I wrote a letter which was published in several Russian newspapers.
我写了一封信，发表在几家俄罗斯报纸上。
And most of my friends disagreed with me.
我的大多数朋友都不同意我的观点。
And my very close friends started polemics against me, which I didn't mind.
我非常亲密的朋友开始与我争论，我并不介意。
But basically, part of the message was-- which I minded-- that I don't live there, I don't understand life there.
但基本上，部分信息是——我介意的——我不住在那里，我不了解那里的生活。
And from America, I have no right to say it.
而在美国，我没有权利这么说。
That was the implication, that I'm a foreigner.
这就是暗示，我是外国人。
And I suddenly realized that they probably are right.
我突然意识到他们可能是对的。
And that was a good cure from any thoughts about returning.
这对于任何关于返回的想法来说都是一个很好的治疗方法。
We're standing in front of 54 Maplewood Avenue in Newton, Massachusetts.
我们站在马萨诸塞州牛顿市枫林大道 54 号前。
If anyone should have a reasonable perspective on dissidents in the suburbs, it would be my old friend Matvei, who is dissident royalty.
如果有人应该对郊区的异见人士有一个合理的看法，那就是我的老朋友马特维，他是异见皇室成员。
The kindly old Sakharov in the framed photo atop our stereo wasn't my grandfather, but he was Matvei's.
我们音响上方相框里的那位和蔼可亲的老萨哈罗夫不是我的祖父，而是马特维的祖父。
And for most of Matvei's childhood, he was exiled in Gorky.
马特维童年的大部分时间都被流放到高尔基。
Matvei's family lived near us-- cross Rt.
马特维的家人住在我们附近——穿过 Rt。
9 on Parker, take a right and another right-- and we had Russian and chess lessons together as part of a parental rear-guard action against our creeping Americanization.
9号在帕克，向右转，再向右转——我们一起上了俄语和国际象棋课，作为家长针对我们逐渐美国化的后卫行动的一部分。
His parents listened to Galich too.
他的父母也听加利奇的。
More importantly, his father was Sakharov's spokesman in the West.
更重要的是，他的父亲是萨哈罗夫在西方的发言人。
So they always had reporters and camera crews swarming the house.
因此，他们的房子里总是挤满了记者和摄像人员。
I think that a lot of the neighbors were very suspicious of us.
我认为很多邻居都对我们非常怀疑。
And because my dad was so busy, he didn't have time to rake the lawn or mow the grass sometimes.
因为我爸爸很忙，有时他没有时间耙草坪或割草。
And people would complain and say that our house was-- that we weren't being respectful to our Newton neighbors because we weren't cleaning up.
人们会抱怨说我们的房子——我们不尊重我们的牛顿邻居，因为我们没有打扫卫生。
But it lowers the property value if you don't mow your lawn.
但如果你不修剪草坪，就会降低财产价值。
Right.
正确的。
Exactly.
确切地。
We were committing a Capitalist sin.
我们犯了资本主义的罪孽。
I tell Matvei that as a child, I found it hard to have an American life at school and a Russian life at home.
我告诉马特维，小时候，我发现很难在学校过美国生活，在家里过俄罗斯生活。
But maybe he felt different because his parents were on a mission from God.
但也许他感觉不同，因为他的父母肩负着上帝的使命。
I didn't see myself as different from the other immigrant kids just because my parents were involved in this.
我并不认为自己与其他移民孩子有什么不同，只是因为我的父母参与了这件事。
It just meant that they would go away for a month to Europe or something.
这只是意味着他们要离开一个月去欧洲什么的。
And I would be like, well, where are my parents?
我会想，好吧，我的父母在哪里？
And they'd be touring Europe and talking to Mitterrand and I don't know, all sorts of weird people out there.
他们会去欧洲旅行并与密特朗交谈，我不知道，那里有各种各样奇怪的人。
Yeah, I remember being called something like-- my teachers in junior high would say things like, where are you "Russian" to?
是的，我记得有人这样称呼我——我初中的老师会说这样的话，你是“俄罗斯人”去哪里？
Mr. Roberts.
罗伯茨先生。
Or Matvei, you look so Red today.
或者马特维，你今天看起来很红。
Like most kids, Matvei didn't think his family was so special until Sakharov died in 1989, when Matvei was 16, and they went to Moscow for the funeral.
和大多数孩子一样，马特维并不认为自己的家人有什么特别，直到 1989 年萨哈罗夫去世，当时马特维 16 岁，他们去莫斯科参加葬礼。
50,000 people came out to mourn his grandfather.
5万人前来悼念他的祖父。
And I think that was a turning point when I realized what I had missed, what I had not been old enough to really understand.
我认为那是一个转折点，我意识到我错过了什么，我还不够大，无法真正理解什么。
It was just an incredible physical experience, in the sense that the space of Moscow was completely flooded by people following the coffin.
这只是一次令人难以置信的身体体验，从某种意义上说，莫斯科的空间完全被跟随棺材的人们淹没了。
And I remember just walking for miles behind, and sort of in a daze because I was thinking about all these things.
我记得我只是在后面走了几英里，有点发呆，因为我正在思考所有这些事情。
But it was not so much of a turning point that Matvei decided to devote his life to politics.
但马特维决定将一生奉献给政治并不是一个转折点。
I think Matvei learned something different from his parents' dissident lives than they probably ever intended.
我认为马特维从他父母的持不同政见的生活中学到了一些与他们可能预想的不同的东西。
He has a dissident's relationship to the world but without the politics.
他与世界有异见者的关系，但与政治无关。
He simply doesn't fit into society, and he doesn't seem distressed about it at all.
他根本不融入社会，而且他似乎对此一点也不感到苦恼。
He lives in a part of Brooklyn that's only barely connected to public transport.
他住在布鲁克林的一个几乎没有公共交通的地方。
He does not have a job.
他没有工作。
He does various projects of his own invention.
他自己发明了各种项目。
His latest is a biweekly 'zine on theatre theory.
他的最新作品是一本关于戏剧理论的双周刊杂志。
Meanwhile, his family wants him to settle down to more traditional work and move closer to the trains.
与此同时，他的家人希望他安定下来从事更传统的工作，并搬到离火车更近的地方。
His grandmother, Yelena Bonner, who has been one of the Russian government's most acerbic critics, is also very critical of Matvei, especially since he dropped out of a doctoral program at Yale.
他的祖母叶连娜·邦纳（Yelena Bonner）是俄罗斯政府最尖刻的批评者之一，她也对马特维持非常批评的态度，特别是自从他从耶鲁大学的博士课程退学之后。
She has often told me that she is going to die if I don't get a PhD.
她经常告诉我，如果我得不到博士学位，她就会死。
What Matvei's family wants for him is the kind of life they had to forfeit.
马特维的家人希望他过上他们不得不放弃的生活。
Political work took an enormous toll on his parents.
政治工作给他的父母带来了巨大的损失。
It was a completely marginal way of life.
这是一种完全边缘化的生活方式。
It meant just forgetting about a career and forgetting about a normal, decent human life.
这意味着忘记职业，忘记正常、体面的人生。
It just meant constantly running or constantly fighting something.
它只是意味着不断地奔跑或不断地与某事战斗。
For Matvei, there isn't very much glamour associated with dissidents.
对于马特维来说，持不同政见者并没有太多魅力。
And so he doesn't find it so strange that they would live in the suburbs.
所以他并不觉得他们住在郊区有什么奇怪。
Well, maybe they got what they wanted.
好吧，也许他们得到了他们想要的。
I don't feel like there's anything so shameful in that.
我不觉得这有什么可耻的。
Yeah, for me, just having the dissidents be something that were talked about in the house.
是的，对我来说，只是让持不同政见者成为家里谈论的事情。
And I probably have a more mythic view of them than you do.
我对它们的看法可能比你更神秘。
And maybe that's why I want to be so critical of them.
也许这就是为什么我想对他们如此批评。
Yeah, I don't know.
是的，我不知道。
I feel like it's hard for me to romanticize the dissidents because we never talked about "the dissidents" in my house.
我觉得我很难把持不同政见者浪漫化，因为我们从来没有在家里谈论过“持不同政见者”。
We talked about my grandpa and my grandma.
我们谈论了我的爷爷和奶奶。
And that was very different.
那是非常不同的。
And it was not really about their political choices but about survival.
这实际上并不关乎他们的政治选择，而是关乎生存。
My name is Alexander Gessen and I am your father.
我的名字是亚历山大·格森，我是你的父亲。
My father was not a dissident, but he brought all of us here from Russia and he raised me to admire them.
我的父亲不是持不同政见者，但他把我们所有人从俄罗斯带到了这里，并养大了我，让我钦佩他们。
He now lives in a big house near the ocean on Cape Cod.
他现在住在科德角海边的一栋大房子里。
And he thinks it's ridiculous that I'm asking why the dissidents haven't returned.
他认为我问为什么持不同政见者还没有回来，这很荒谬。
They built their lives here.
他们在这里建立了自己的生活。
And do you want them to just extricate themselves and go back to nothing?
难道你就想让他们解脱出来，一无所有吗？
It's very difficult.
这是非常困难的。
If I feel this way, it's largely because you have instilled these ideas into me.
如果我有这样的感觉，很大程度上是因为你向我灌输了这些想法。
You feel what?
你感觉什么？
Tell me what you feel.
告诉我你的感受。
What are you talking about right now?
你现在在说什么？
Well, largely my idea of the moral life comes from listening to Galich, from listening to stories about political heroism and moral heroism.
嗯，我对道德生活的看法很大程度上来自于听加利奇，来自于听关于政治英雄主义和道德英雄主义的故事。
But meanwhile, we were in the suburbs.
但与此同时，我们在郊区。
Does that makes sense to you as a contradiction?
这对你来说是一个矛盾吗？
A contradiction between our lifestyle and our admirations?
我们的生活方式和我们的钦佩之间存在矛盾吗？
No, I don't think that everybody has to be a hero.
不，我不认为每个人都必须成为英雄。
Of course, if you are saying that you would prefer to have a father a hero, a dissident instead of just a suburban father, I could understand that.
当然，如果你说你更愿意有一个英雄、一个异见人士的父亲，而不仅仅是一个郊区的父亲，我可以理解。
Well, I wasn't-- but the dissidents are also in the suburbs.
嗯，我不是——但持不同政见者也在郊区。
So it would be the same situation, really.
所以确实会出现同样的情况。
You mean, these people are not heroic enough, that they stopped being heroes?
你的意思是，这些人不够英雄，不再是英雄了？
This is what you are complaining about, yeah?
这就是你所抱怨的，是吗？
Probably they did their part and they feel that they did enough.
也许他们尽了自己的职责，并且觉得自己做得足够了。
This is why they are staying here.
这就是他们留在这里的原因。
They did their parts.
他们尽了自己的职责。
They cannot do much now and they don't have to do anything now.
他们现在不能做太多事，也不必做任何事。
Of course my father's right.
当然我父亲是对的。
But somehow there's a part of me that feels the dissidents shouldn't be here.
但不知何故，我内心深处觉得持不同政见者不应该在这里。
I think it's because, as a kid in the suburbs, I thought that history is what happened to other people, to people in Moscow and Paris and New York and Woodstock.
我想这是因为，作为一个住在郊区的孩子，我认为历史就是发生在其他人身上、发生在莫斯科、巴黎、纽约和伍德斯托克的人们身上的事情。
They were out there doing these important things, and we were here, comfortable on Woodcliff Road, not doing much of anything at all.
他们在那里做这些重要的事情，而我们在这里，舒适地在伍德克利夫路，什么也不做。
The suburbs are about sitting out history and about private lives.
郊区是关于静坐历史和私人生活的地方。
And the dissidents certainly have a right to all that.
持不同政见者当然有权获得这一切。
But when they were in Russia, they proved that it matters too what you do in public, that it is not enough to be moral behind the walls of your castle.
但当他们在俄罗斯时，他们证明了你在公共场合的所作所为也很重要，仅仅在城堡的围墙后面保持道德是不够的。
They still believe that, of course, as I believe it, fiercely, from my comfortable, American home.
当然，他们仍然相信这一点，就像我在我舒适的美国家里坚信的那样。
Keith Gessen in Massachusetts.
马萨诸塞州的基思·格森。
He first wrote about dissidents in the suburbs for feedmagazine.com.
他首先为 feedmagazine.com 撰写有关郊区持不同政见者的文章。
Act Three, Shopping for a Better Future.
第三幕，为更美好的未来而购物。
What's left of an old neighborhood when a new one starts to form on top of it, when lots of money floods in but the old residents stick around?
当新社区开始在其上形成、大量资金涌入而老居民却留下来时，老社区还剩下什么？
This American Life producer Julie Snyder has this story.
《美国生活》制片人朱莉·斯奈德有这样一个故事。
It says something that one of the most profound social experiments in Chicago is happening inside a supermarket.
它表明芝加哥最深刻的社会实验之一正在超市内进行。
And while the executives of Dominick's Finer Foods wouldn't call it an experiment, there's really no other way to see it.
虽然多米尼克精细食品公司的高管不会称其为实验，但确实没有其他方法可以看到它。
For years, leaders from Jesse Jackson to Ronald Reagan have argued that if businesses would just locate in poorer areas, entire communities could change.
多年来，从杰西·杰克逊到罗纳德·里根的领导人都认为，如果企业只是将业务设在较贫困的地区，整个社区可能会发生变化。
This is a story of a corporation that tried to follow that model.
这是一个关于一家试图遵循这种模式的公司的故事。
See, this used to be, like, a predominantly black neighborhood.
看，这曾经是一个以黑人为主的社区。
And up until maybe two years ago, it just like changed overnight.
直到大约两年前，它就像一夜之间发生了变化。
Overnight.
过夜。
Justin Thomas has lived in the Cabrini-Green housing projects on and off for the last 30 years, and works in the new store Dominick's built across the street.
过去 30 年来，贾斯汀·托马斯 (Justin Thomas) 断断续续地住在卡布里尼格林 (Cabrini-Green) 住房项目中，并在街对面新建的多米尼克 (Dominick) 商店工作。
A thoughtful man who treats everyone like he's their older brother, he tells me that his job in the store cafe is to basically "do everything the females can't," which basically means a lot of heavy lifting and cleaning.
他是一个体贴的男人，对待每个人都像对待他们的哥哥一样，他告诉我，他在商店咖啡馆的工作基本上是“做女性做不到的一切”，这基本上意味着很多繁重的搬运和清洁工作。
There was a lot of crazy stuff happening over here.
这里发生了很多疯狂的事情。
A few years ago, you could barely rest for shooting and gangs and stuff.
几年前，你几乎无法休息去射击、帮派之类的事情。
And they started tearing down some of the buildings in the projects.
他们开始拆除项目中的一些建筑物。
And when the neighborhood, the community could have been in a real crisis, up pops this store.
当邻里、社区可能陷入真正的危机时，这家商店就会出现。
Two years ago, the Chicago city government began a massive revitalization of the Cabrini-Green area.
两年前，芝加哥市政府开始大规模振兴卡布里尼-格林地区。
They gave economic incentives to Dominick's to move in.
他们为多米尼克的搬入提供了经济激励。
Old buildings came down.
老建筑倒塌了。
A new library went up.
一座新图书馆拔地而起。
A park opened.
一个公园开业了。
And acres were cleared to build three-story townhomes where trashed-out cars and crack houses once stood.
土地被清理出来，用来建造三层联排别墅，那里曾经矗立着废弃的汽车和破烂的房屋。
The whole neighborhood began to look different, people living in the projects next door to yuppies in the new condos and lofts.
整个社区开始看起来不同了，人们住在隔壁的项目中，而雅皮士则住在新公寓和阁楼里。
One afternoon, Justin and I go out to the parking lot in front of the supermarket.
一天下午，贾斯汀和我去超市前的停车场。
Over there to the right was a basketball court.
右边是一个篮球场。
Right there where the Blockbuster is.
就在百视达所在的地方。
I think it may be extended from the Blockbuster maybe to right here.
我认为它可能会从百视达延伸到这里。
Like, to maybe where this BMW is right here?
就像，也许这辆宝马就在这里？
Yeah.
是的。
It was like a haven, really, for people that get high.
对于那些吸毒的人来说，这真的就像一个避风港。
Of the 6,000 people who live in the projects, 93% are unemployed.
项目内居住的6000人中，93%失业。
And when Dominick's cut their deal with the city, they agreed to hire 2/3 of their workforce from the neighborhood.
当多米尼克与市政府达成协议时，他们同意从附近雇用 2/3 的劳动力。
It's one thing to set out to do something like this, and you get all of the warm and fuzzies and everything looks good.
着手做这样的事情是一回事，你会得到所有的温暖和模糊，一切看起来都很好。
And then you get the store up and running, and then it falls apart.
然后你把商店开起来并开始运营，然后它就分崩离析了。
Dwayne Howard is the head of human resources at Dominick's.
德韦恩·霍华德 (Dwayne Howard) 是多米尼克餐厅 (Dominick's) 的人力资源主管。
An African American man in his 40s, he first started coming to Cabrini-Green a decade ago.
他是一位 40 多岁的非洲裔美国人，十年前第一次来到卡布里尼格林。
For years, he was here every week as part of the Cabrini-Green tutoring program and thought he knew a little bit about the neighborhood.
多年来，作为卡布里尼-格林辅导项目的一部分，他每周都会来这里，并认为自己对这个社区略知一二。
But even he was surprised at how unprepared some people were for regular work.
但就连他也对有些人对正常工作毫无准备感到惊讶。
35-year-old men were applying who'd never held any jobs ever.
前来申请的都是从未从事过任何工作的 35 岁男性。
There's no other way to put it other than you need to be sensitive to what has been a way of life for some of the employees that are working in the store, having been a product of their upbringing in the Cabrini-Green housing project.
除了需要对店里工作的一些员工的生活方式保持敏感之外，没有其他方法可以表达，这是他们在卡布里尼-格林住房项目中成长的产物。
The city paid for a two-week course where applicants were taught not to wear jeans to their interviews, to bring their own pens to fill out applications, to not argue with customers, to come to work on time.
该市支付了为期两周的课程，教导申请人面试时不要穿牛仔裤、自己带笔填写申请表、不要与顾客争论、准时上班。
In short, Dominick's ran into exactly the same problems that any government agency or charity slams up against when it tries to move people off welfare and into jobs.
简而言之，多米尼克遇到的问题与任何政府机构或慈善机构在试图让人们摆脱福利并进入工作岗位时所遇到的问题完全相同。
The Cabrini store manager told me that even now, some employees won't come in for days.
卡布里尼商店经理告诉我，即使是现在，有些员工也好几天都不会来。
And when they do finally show up, they're shocked to find out they've been fired.
当他们最终出现时，他们震惊地发现自己被解雇了。
A few months back, two step-sisters, one working the register and the other bagging groceries, had an argument brewing their entire shift, ending with punches being thrown right there at the checkout line.
几个月前，两个继姐妹，一个在收银台工作，另一个在装杂货，在整个轮班过程中发生了争吵，最后在收银台上互相殴打。
Most of the early hires didn't work out.
大多数早期的招聘都没有成功。
One manager who'd been at 14 stores over 25 years said he'd never seen a turnover rate so high.
一位在 14 家商店工作了 25 年的经理表示，他从未见过如此高的人员流动率。
Store execs won't say how many of the original staff of 250 are still with Dominick's, but they admit it may be as low as 1/4.
商店高管不愿透露原来 250 名员工中有多少人仍在 Dominick's 工作，但他们承认这一比例可能低至 1/4。
And every employee they let go, they have to find and hire another from the neighborhood.
他们每解雇一名员工，就必须从附近寻找并雇用另一名员工。
None of this gives you a sense of the atmosphere in the store, which in a way is the most remarkable thing about the entire experiment.
所有这些都无法让你感受到商店里的气氛，这在某种程度上是整个实验中最引人注目的事情。
When I first walked into the Dominick's about six months ago, a store employee, a small woman in her 70s, greeted me at the door, handed me a shopping basket, and told me to let her know if there was anything she could help me find.
大约六个月前，当我第一次走进多米尼克店时，一位 70 多岁的店员在门口迎接我，递给我一个购物篮，并告诉我如果有什么可以帮我找到的，请告诉她。
In the aisles, customers were chatting with each other.
过道里，顾客们正在互相交谈。
Teens from Cabrini hang out by the pizza slice counter.
来自卡布里尼的青少年在披萨片柜台旁闲逛。
Elderly men drink coffee and read the paper in the store cafe.
老人们在店里的咖啡厅喝咖啡看报纸。
At the checkout line, the cashier was telling a joke, a slightly racy one even, to the customer in front of me.
在收银台前，收银员正在向我面前的顾客讲一个笑话，甚至是一个有点活泼的笑话。
It didn't seem like they knew each other, but they were both laughing.
看上去他们并不认识，但两人都在笑。
She was maybe 20, African-American.
她大约 20 岁，非裔美国人。
He was a balding white guy.
他是一个秃顶的白人。
I thought maybe this was some sort of special day at Dominick's, like maybe the employees were being evaluated or it was the store's anniversary.
我想这可能是多米尼克店的某种特殊的日子，就像员工正在接受评估或者这是商店的周年纪念日。
But almost every time I've gone back, the same types of things happen.
但几乎每次我回去，都会发生同样的事情。
If you ask an employee where something is, they don't just point in a general direction and leave.
如果你问员工某样东西在哪里，他们不会只是指着一个大概的方向然后离开。
They actually drop what they're doing and take you over to the product.
他们实际上会放弃他们正在做的事情并把你带到产品上。
There's a man who works in the liquor department who has stopped my husband in the store, taken his bottle of wine out of the cart, and replaced it with a cheaper and better version.
有一个在酒类部门工作的人在店里拦住了我丈夫，把他的一瓶酒从购物车里拿出来，换成了更便宜、更好的版本。
People seem genuinely happy to have these jobs and to have the first decent store they've ever had in this neighborhood.
人们似乎真的很高兴拥有这些工作，并拥有他们在这个社区拥有的第一家像样的商店。
It's also one of the most comfortably integrated environments in Chicago.
它也是芝加哥最舒适的综合环境之一。
The diversity of the stock is almost a laughably obvious metaphor for the diversity of the customers.
库存的多样性几乎是对客户多样性的可笑的明显隐喻。
Collard greens sit next to arugula.
羽衣甘蓝位于芝麻菜旁边。
Smoked ham hocks and turkey tails literally lay right next to gourmet smoked sausage with sun-dried tomato, basil, and pine nuts.
熏火腿和火鸡尾巴就放在美味的熏香肠旁边，配上晒干的番茄、罗勒和松子。
I like the store.
我喜欢这家商店。
It's OK.
没关系。
I don't think that they really built that store for us.
我不认为他们真的为我们建造了那家商店。
Oh, for the people moving in.
哦，对于搬进来的人。
The middle class people with more money than we have.
中产阶级比我们有钱。
Dan Underwood has lived in the area all of his life, before the housing projects were even built.
丹·安德伍德 (Dan Underwood) 在住房项目建成之前就一直居住在该地区。
He headed the grammar school's champion drill team and runs a community gardening project called Cabrini Greens where kids grow vegetables and sell them at a profit.
他领导了文法学校的冠军训练队，并运营着一个名为“Cabrini Greens”的社区园艺项目，孩子们在那里种植蔬菜并出售它们以获取利润。
When I ask him what remains of the old neighborhood now that it has a new shopping center, he tells me, pretty much everything-- gangs, drugs, and poor people.
当我问他老街区现在有了一个新的购物中心还剩下什么时，他告诉我，几乎所有的东西——帮派、毒品和穷人。
Standing in between three of the high-rises, it's clear the benefits of redevelopment don't extend much further than the plot of land Dominick's sits on.
站在三座高层建筑之间，很明显，重建的好处并没有超出多米尼克所在的土地范围。
See now, do you see the police car sitting out front right here?
现在看，你看到前面停着的警车了吗？
He points at a squad car and one woman yelling down from the fifth floor to a woman in the parking lot who ignores her and strides away.
他指着一辆警车和一名女子从五楼向停车场的一名女子大喊大叫，后者无视她并大步走开。
Oh, those people.
哦，那些人。
They're arguing about drugs.
他们在争论毒品。
They're arguing about drugs.
他们在争论毒品。
But the guys will be standing right down there selling drugs now.
但这些人现在就站在那里卖毒品。
When the police come, they're all going out of there.
警察来了之后，他们就全部离开那里。
Oh, God.
哦，上帝。
A lot.
很多。
They're here all the time.
他们一直都在这里。
They never leave.
他们永远不会离开。
They never leave.
他们永远不会离开。
Dan says what everyone at Cabrini says, that it's just a matter of time before the city tears down the high-rises and sends them all packing.
丹说出了卡布里尼每个人的看法，即这座城市拆除高楼并将它们全部打包只是时间问题。
People said this to me months ago, and it wasn't clear if it was paranoia.
几个月前人们就对我说过这样的话，但不清楚这是否是偏执狂。
And then recently, they were proven right in every detail.
最近，他们在每个细节上都被证明是正确的。
The housing authority has announced a plan to demolish the Cabrini high-rises and build a mixed-income community in its place.
住房管理局已宣布计划拆除卡布里尼的高层建筑并在其所在地建造一个混合收入社区。
It's still not entirely clear how it will shake out, but the most likely scenario is this-- some people will be allowed to stay in the neighborhood in new and improved public housing, and the rest-- probably most people-- will be moved to poor neighborhoods, God knows where, or abandoned.
目前尚不完全清楚它将如何摆脱困境，但最有可能的情况是——一些人将被允许留在附近的新的和改进的公共住房中，而其余的人——可能是大多数人——将被转移到天知道在哪里的贫困社区，或者被遗弃。
Things change so much.
事情变化太大了。
When I was a little boy, eight, nine years old, those projects were not there.
当我还是个八九岁的小男孩时，这些项目还不存在。
The rural houses, do you know where they are?
农村的房子，你知道在哪里吗？
On the other side of Oak Street, that was Italian.
在橡树街的另一边，那是意大利人。
The Italians lived there.
意大利人住在那里。
And black kids couldn't walk over there.
黑人孩子不能走到那里。
You got in a fight.
你们打架了。
Italian gangs were there.
那里有意大利帮派。
And you walked over there, you got in a fight.
你走到那里，你们就打架了。
The only time that you were allowed to come over there was on Babaluci Day, which was when they had the carnivals and stuff.
唯一允许你去那里的时间是巴巴鲁吉日，那时他们有狂欢节之类的活动。
You could go there.
你可以去那里。
They'd let you come during Babaluci Day.
他们会让你在巴巴路奇节期间来。
And you could come to ride on the Ferris Wheel and all that kind of stuff.
你可以来乘坐摩天轮之类的东西。
And the Cardinal would come and he had his float.
红衣主教会来，他就会有自己的浮动。
And it was peaceful then, that day.
那天，当时很平静。
After that, the next day, you couldn't go over there.
之后，第二天，你就不能再去那里了。
You couldn't go over there.
你不能去那里。
So in a way, right now, this time period is sort of like Babaluci Day.
所以在某种程度上，现在这个时间段有点像巴巴鲁奇日。
You can come in.
你可以进来了。
You can come in.
你可以进来了。
You can come in and you can come to the Dominick's.
你可以进来，你可以来多米尼克家。
But this is not for you.
但这不适合你。
You have to go.
你必须走了。
Everyone assumes the few people who will be allowed to stay in the area and live in the nice, new public housing will be the best bets, people who are off public aid, people with jobs.
每个人都认为少数被允许留在该地区并住在漂亮的新公共住房中的人将是最好的选择，那些没有公共援助的人，有工作的人。
With this in mind, Justin, who's only worked in the store for four months, has made it his own personal project to informally recruit people for jobs at Dominick's.
考虑到这一点，贾斯汀只在店里工作了四个月，他把非正式地招聘多米尼克店的员工作为自己的个人项目。
He talks it up at his Baptist Church.
他在浸信会教堂里谈论了这件事。
He encourages his kid's friends.
他鼓励孩子的朋友。
When people find out he works at Dominick's, he helps to set them up with interviews.
当人们发现他在多米尼克工作时，他会帮助他们安排采访。
I mean, in a few years from now, if you're not in the workplace, where are you going to be?
我的意思是，几年后，如果你不在工作场所，你会去哪里？
The way the neighborhood is changing, where are you going to be?
社区的方式正在发生变化，你要去哪里？
You definitely can't live over here and sell drugs.
你绝对不能住在这里贩卖毒品。
That's going to be a thing of the past.
那将成为过去。
So what do you do?
那么你做什么呢？
So it's kind of like shaping up for those people that will and for those that won't.
所以这有点像为那些愿意和不愿意的人做准备。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I mean, God help them.
我的意思是，上帝帮助他们。
I don't know where they'll be years from now.
我不知道几年后他们会在哪里。
At this point, the results of this social experiment are as follows-- a few hundred people have gotten and held on to jobs, some in ways that have changed their lives.
至此，这个社会实验的结果如下——数百人找到并保住了工作，其中一些人的生活改变了。
And 6,000 Cabrini residents will mostly feel the experiment's effects on the day they're told to move out.
6,000 名卡布里尼居民大部分会在被告知搬出的那天感受到实验的影响。
Julie Snyder.
朱莉·斯奈德。
To visit the most interesting supermarket in America, it's Division and Sedgwick here in Chicago.
要参观美国最有趣的超市，那就是芝加哥的Division and Sedgwick 超市。
Our program produced today by Julie and myself with Alex Blumberg, Susan Burton, and Blue Chevigny.
我们今天的节目由朱莉和我与亚历克斯·布隆伯格、苏珊·伯顿和布鲁·切维尼共同制作。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia who kills every tender moment between us by saying--
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理监督由托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 负责，他说的话扼杀了我们之间的每一个温柔时刻——
Mm-yesss?
嗯-是的？
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 我是艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。