155: Hoaxing Yourself (2000) - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #155 | March 22, 2002 155: Hoaxing Yourself (2000) Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 155 集 | 2002 年 3 月 22 日 155：欺骗自己 (2000) 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Parents-- here's all the evidence that you need that TV is bad for kids.
序言 Ira Glass 父母——这里有所有证据表明电视对孩子有害。
Especially public TV.
尤其是公共电视。
When Sean was 14, he loved watching those British TV shows that are always running on PBS.
肖恩 14 岁时，喜欢看 PBS 上播出的英国电视节目。
Masterpiece Theatre, Doctor Who.
杰作剧院，神秘博士。
And then there was this show that I would stay up really late and watch, and tape, and watch over and over again the tapes, called Dempsey & Makepeace.
然后还有一个节目，我会熬夜观看、录像、一遍又一遍地观看录像带，名为《Dempsey & Makepeace》。
Which was about an American detective who went to London because he had been set up at home.
这是关于一位美国侦探因为在国内遭到陷害而前往伦敦的故事。
And he was teamed up with a woman, who was this aristocrat named Lady Harriet Makepeace.
他与一位女士合作，这位女士就是一位名叫哈里特·梅克皮斯夫人的贵族。
And I was really on her side, I thought, she's got it going on.
我真的站在她一边，我想，她已经成功了。
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Ira Glass What Sean liked about Lady Harriet Makepeace and all the other Brits on TV was their aloofness.
艾拉·格拉斯 肖恩喜欢哈里特·梅克皮斯夫人和电视上所有其他英国人的原因是他们的冷漠。
How they seemed above it all, how they looked down on Americans, which Sean did also.
他们看起来多么高高在上，多么瞧不起美国人，肖恩也是如此。
Convinced there must be something wrong with the nation that produced jocks and bullies who harassed him at school.
他确信这个国家一定出了什么问题，这个国家产生了在学校骚扰他的运动员和恶霸。
And sometimes, joking around with his friends, he would talk with a British accent.
有时，他会用英国口音与朋友开玩笑。
And then it was just something that spiraled out of control.
然后事情就失控了。
I know that eventually, I was just using an English accent literally from waking to sleeping.
我知道，最终我从起床到睡觉都一直在用英语口音。
Morning, noon, and night.
早上、中午、晚上。
Sean spoke with a British accent from the time he was 14 until he was 16.
肖恩从 14 岁到 16 岁一直说着英国口音。
And at some point, his mother took him to see a psychiatrist.
在某个时候，他的母亲带他去看精神科医生。
He was just really, he must-- I don't know the different schools of psychology, but he was really very confrontive.
他真的，他必须——我不了解不同的心理学流派，但他真的非常具有对抗性。
And he was like, well, you've got to stop doing this, he said, because you're not British.
他说，好吧，你必须停止这样做，因为你不是英国人。
And my mom just sort of sat over next to me, and she sort of went, yeah, to agree with him.
我妈妈就坐在我旁边，她同意了他的观点。
And to sort of help him in showing me this.
并帮助他向我展示这一点。
Sean was furious.
肖恩很生气。
He had an impulse to lecture the guy on how, in fact, he was British.
他很想教训那个人，让他知道他实际上是英国人。
And the only problem with that was, A, he knew very well that he was not, and B, his mother was sitting right there.
唯一的问题是，A，他很清楚自己不是，B，他的母亲就坐在那儿。
She was sure to contradict him.
她肯定会反驳他。
It all just seemed impossible.
这一切似乎都是不可能的。
Because that's what I was thinking.
因为我就是这么想的。
Like, there has to be a way that I could be British still.
就像，一定有办法让我仍然是英国人。
There must be a way that this is true, somehow.
一定有某种方式可以证明这是真的。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Ira Glass Well today on our radio program, stories of people to tell a lie, and they get to the point where they believe the lie more than anyone else does.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）今天在我们的广播节目中讲述了人们说谎的故事，他们比任何人都更相信谎言。
In other words, stories of people pulling hoaxes on themselves.
换句话说，就是人们对自己恶作剧的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Act one of our program today, The Sun Never Sets On The Moosewood Restaurant, in which two young men, both from small towns, try on new identities, false identities, and what they have to do to keep the lies going.
我们今天的节目之一《穆斯伍德餐厅的太阳永不落》，两个来自小镇的年轻人尝试新身份、虚假身份，以及他们必须做些什么来让谎言继续下去。
Act two, Conning The Con Men.
第二幕，欺骗骗子。
Nancy Updike reports on a federal sting operation and how it caught con men by setting up a con of its own.
南希·厄普代克报道了一次联邦诱捕行动，以及该行动如何通过设立自己的骗局来抓获骗子。
Act three, Outperforming the Performers.
第三幕，超越表演者。
A girl gets her big break on Broadway by going into a coma.
一名女孩因陷入昏迷而在百老汇获得重大突破。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act one, The Sun Never Sets on the Moosewood Restaurant.
第一幕，穆斯伍德餐厅的太阳永不落。
This is the story of two young people who, for a period in their lives, in their search to figure out who they were, pretended to be people who they were not.
这是两个年轻人的故事，他们在生命中的一段时间内，为了弄清楚自己是谁，假装成别人。
We'll hear from Sean Cole and Joel Lovell, starting with Sean.
我们将听取肖恩·科尔和乔尔·洛弗尔的发言，首先是肖恩。
He grew up in a small town in Massachusetts, a town that was approximately 3,350 miles from London.
他在马萨诸塞州的一个小镇长大，距离伦敦约 3,350 英里。
It was second nature.
这是第二天性。
It was first nature.
这是第一本性。
To this day I have trouble saying, oh, I faked an accent for two years.
直到今天我都很难说，哦，我假装口音两年了。
I mean, I had an accent for two years.
我的意思是，我有口音已经有两年了。
Sean, could I just ask you to take a deep breath and describe for me what you had for lunch today, or perhaps for breakfast this morning, in as close to the accent that you can remember.
肖恩，我可以请你深吸一口气，用你能记得的口音向我描述一下你今天午餐吃的东西，或者今天早上早餐吃的东西。
As close I can.
我能尽可能接近。
OK.
好的。
I'm going to take a sip of water here.
我要在这里喝一口水。
Well, Ira, I had a salad.
好吧，艾拉，我吃了一份沙拉。
I had it at the Boston House of Pancakes-- er, Pizza, rather.
我在波士顿煎饼屋吃过它——呃，更确切地说，是披萨。
What was the beverage?
饮料是什么？
Sean Cole It was a Snapple, just lemon-flavored.
肖恩·科尔 这是斯纳普，只是柠檬味的。
I don't really like the peach.
我其实不太喜欢桃子。
Joel Lovell's story began when he left the working class town where he grew up, in upstate New York.
乔尔·洛弗尔 (Joel Lovell) 的故事始于他离开纽约州北部他长大的工人阶级小镇时。
His parents owned a liquor store in a small town.
他的父母在一个小镇拥有一家酒类商店。
He was the first member of his family to go to college, and it was an especially big deal because he got into an Ivy League school, Cornell.
他是家里第一个上大学的成员，这尤其重要，因为他进入了常春藤盟校康奈尔大学。
It was one of those first days of college, you know, when to spend a lot of time-- everybody kind of moves in hordes, and you spend a lot of time in each other's dorm rooms.
那是大学的第一天，你知道，什么时候要花很多时间——每个人都会成群结队地移动，而且你们会在彼此的宿舍里度过很多时间。
And there were about, oh, I don't know, 10 or 11 of us in this one guy's room.
哦，我不知道，这个人的房间里大约有 10 或 11 个人。
And we were just like sitting around, eating pizza and talking.
我们就像坐在一起，吃披萨，聊天。
And people were talking about where they were from and what their parents did, stuff like that.
人们谈论他们来自哪里以及他们的父母做什么，诸如此类。
And there was one guy whose dad was a doctor for the Knicks.
有一个人的父亲是尼克斯队的医生。
There was another guy whose father was an elected representative from New York State.
还有一个人，他的父亲是纽约州的民选代表。
And then this other guy whose father was on the World Court.
然后是另一个他父亲在世界法庭上的人。
Literally was a member of the World Court.
字面上是世界法院的成员。
Oh, my.
哦，我的。
Joel Lovell And so it suddenly seemed like this incredibly impressive group to me.
乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell）所以对我来说，这突然变得令人难以置信的令人印象深刻的团体。
And they seemed sort of worldly in ways that was just beyond my wildest imagination.
他们似乎有点世俗，超出了我最疯狂的想象。
And worldly beyond what I am now, frankly.
坦率地说，我比现在更世俗。
And I remember sitting there at the time thinking, oh my God, I'm so out of my league here.
我记得当时坐在那里想，天啊，我实在是太格格不入了。
And then, completely unplanned, I suddenly said, as a slice of pizza was passed to me, this pizza with sausage on top of it.
然后，完全出乎意料的是，当一片披萨递给我时，我突然说道，这个披萨上面有香肠。
I said, I can't take that because my parents are vegetarians.
我说，我不能接受，因为我的父母是素食主义者。
And then everybody in the room sort of turned and looked at me.
然后房间里的每个人都转过头来看着我。
Because it wasn't even as if I said well, I'm a vegetarian.
因为我根本就没有说好，我是素食主义者。
But I said, my parents are vegetarians.
但我说，我的父母是素食主义者。
And there's a sort of puzzled look on everybody in the room.
房间里的每个人都露出一种困惑的表情。
And I said well, and I am too.
我说得好，我也是。
I've never eaten meat.
我从来没有吃过肉。
I'm not entirely-- well, I mean, I have some ideas now about why I said that.
我不完全——嗯，我的意思是，我现在对我为什么这么说有一些想法。
But at the time I had no idea what I was saying.
但当时我不知道自己在说什么。
It was like suddenly I'd become possessed.
就好像我突然着了魔一样。
And I had to think of something to say about myself that seemed interesting.
我必须想出一些关于我自己的、看起来很有趣的话。
And vegetarianism was the thing that I chose.
素食主义是我选择的。
Now, did you tell people that you were actually from England?
现在，你告诉人们你实际上来自英国吗？
No, no. Never that I was from Britain.
不，不。从来没有说过我来自英国。
But in a way, that I was British, you know.
但在某种程度上，我是英国人，你知道。
There was a real distinction there for me.
这对我来说是一个真正的区别。
Like I'd taken it on.
就像我接受了它一样。
Like I was culturally British now.
就像我现在在文化上是英国人一样。
Well, I think what it was is, I think I did some sort of calculus that took like an nanosecond in my head.
嗯，我想那是什么，我想我做了某种微积分，在我的脑海里花了大约一纳秒的时间。
And I thought, I can't actually lie about what my parents do.
我想，我实际上不能对我父母的所作所为撒谎。
But I think the connections that I was making were this.
但我认为我所建立的联系是这样的。
That somehow, because I was from this town in the sticks, if my folks were vegetarians, then the whole history that that suggested was that they were sort of these kind of leftist academic radicals who had sort of dropped out of society and gone back to the land.
不知何故，因为我来自这个偏僻的小镇，如果我的家人是素食主义者，那么整个历史表明他们是某种左派学术激进分子，他们有点脱离了社会，回到了土地。
And I was living in this bumpkin town in upstate New York, and my folks were living some sort of life that was driven by their political philosophy, rather than I was just a guy who grew up in upstate New York.
我住在纽约州北部的这个乡巴佬小镇，我的家人过着某种由他们的政治哲学驱动的生活，而不是我只是一个在纽约州北部长大的人。
I did the old kid thing of wishing that my real British parents would come and tell me I was adopted and take me back to London.
我做了老孩子的事情，希望我真正的英国父母能过来告诉我我是被收养的，并带我回伦敦。
So I'm sitting there in the room and all these guys are looking at me.
所以我坐在房间里，所有这些人都在看着我。
And they're like, dude, what do you eat?
他们就像，伙计，你吃什么？
And suddenly I realized, in that moment, how little I knew about vegetarianism.
在那一刻我突然意识到我对素食主义知之甚少。
I kind of tried to be real vague about it.
我试图对此保持模糊。
You know, we eat salads and lentils.
你知道，我们吃沙拉和扁豆。
I remember saying lentils a lot.
我记得经常说扁豆。
And there was a gap, certainly, in my education.
当然，我的教育存在差距。
Because I would be using words that Americans just don't use.
因为我会使用美国人不使用的词语。
I would, instead of saying drug store, I would say chemist.
我不会说药店，而是说药剂师。
Or I would try my best to remember to say bonnet instead of hood, or boot instead of trunk.
或者我会尽力记住说“bonnet”而不是“hood”，或者说“boot”而不是“trunk”。
But I often couldn't.
但我常常做不到。
On the meal plan I ended up eating a lot of big piles of iceberg lettuce.
在膳食计划中，我最终吃了很多大堆的卷心生菜。
And chickpeas.
还有鹰嘴豆。
And during that time, would you find yourself sneaking to go to get meat somewhere?
在那段时间里，你会发现自己偷偷地去某个地方买肉吗？
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
At first I would go really far from campus in order to have a BLT.
起初，为了参加 BLT，我会去离校园很远的地方。
There's this diner downtown in Ithaca, and it felt incredibly illicit.
伊萨卡市中心有一家餐馆，感觉非常非法。
I'd be sitting there and I'd have some reading material or something with me, and I'd be the lonely guy in my booth.
我会坐在那里，随身携带一些阅读材料或其他东西，而我会是我的摊位上孤独的人。
And I would order the BLT and I would watch it coming from across the room, with its toothpick in the top of it.
我会点生菜番茄三明治，然后看着它从房间的另一边端过来，上面插着牙签。
And a side of French fries with this meat gravy on top.
还有一份炸薯条，上面放着肉汁。
And when it landed on the table it would just seem like this incredibly wonderful moment.
当它落在桌子上时，这看起来就像是一个令人难以置信的美妙时刻。
When you're doing something just totally unlike what anybody would expect of you.
当你做的事情完全不同于别人对你的期望时。
I was a nobody.
我本来就是一个无名小卒。
I was living in an extremely small, kind of rural town, in the middle of nowhere.
我住在一个非常小的乡村小镇，地处偏僻的地方。
I guess, in a way, this was my way of travelling.
我想，在某种程度上，这就是我的旅行方式。
And of being somebody.
以及成为某人。
And sort of achieving an identity.
并获得某种身份。
Which I guess I didn't feel like I had.
我想我并没有这样的感觉。
I didn't feel like-- I'm just sort of realizing this now-- but I guess I didn't feel as though I had anything that made me up.
我不觉得——我现在才意识到这一点——但我想我不觉得我有任何东西可以让我变得坚强。
I mean, what I realized fairly quickly is that if this is going to be believable, I actually have to believe in it.
我的意思是，我很快意识到，如果这是可信的，我实际上必须相信它。
But I also began to, not only believe, but really sort of take on as my persona, all the stuff that I imagined was associated with vegetarianism.
但我也开始不仅相信，而且真的把我想象中的所有东西都与素食主义联系起来，作为我的角色。
Like what?
比如什么？
Joel Lovell Well, certain political convictions, and ways of dress.
乔尔·洛弗尔（Joel Lovell）：嗯，某些政治信念和着装方式。
I wore ripped jeans and I wore combat boots.
我穿着破洞牛仔裤和军靴。
But I also wore a kind of stage jacket that you would see in a community theater production of Hamlet.
但我还穿着一种你会在社区剧院制作的《哈姆雷特》中看到的舞台夹克。
Yeah, I bought sandals.
是的，我买了凉鞋。
I very specifically remember going down to this thrift store in downtown Ithaca and buying a pair of fatigue shorts, which just seemed like I might as well have been Che Guevara at that point.
我非常清楚地记得去伊萨卡市中心的一家旧货店买了一条疲劳短裤，当时我觉得自己就像切·格瓦拉一样。
As far I was concerned I was a dangerous leftist.
就我而言，我是一个危险的左派。
Did you, at any point during this, find yourself in the following argument where you would say, I've never had a hamburger, and somebody would insist, oh, you must have had meat some point.
在这期间的任何时候，你是否发现自己陷入了以下争论，你会说，我从来没有吃过汉堡，而有人会坚持说，哦，你一定在某个时候吃过肉。
And then you had to argue your side.
然后你必须为自己的立场辩护。
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
It wasn't pretty.
这并不漂亮。
And of course, I had grown up-- just to put this in context for a second, if you don't mind.
当然，我已经长大了——如果你不介意的话，我只是把这个放在上下文中。
I mean, not only had I had hundreds of hamburgers, and gone to the McDonald's drive through hundreds of times, but the counter point situation that I always think about when I remember this time was that, when I was a senior in high school, my family, for time saving reasons, decided that a great thing to do would be to go to Arby's Roast Beef.
我的意思是，我不仅吃过数百个汉堡，去过数百次麦当劳，而且当我记得这一次时，我总是想到的相反的情况是，当我读高中时，我的家人出于节省时间的原因，决定去阿比烤牛肉是一件很棒的事情。
I don't know if you have those out in Chicago, I think they're countrywide.
我不知道芝加哥是否有这些，我想全国都有。
So my dad and I would go to Arby's, on say, a Thursday afternoon or something.
所以我和爸爸会去阿比家，比如周四下午什么的。
Or after I got out of school.
或者是我放学后。
And we would go in there and we would buy 48 Arby's roast beef sandwiches.
我们会去那里买 48 个 Arby's 烤牛肉三明治。
And they would put them in this cardboard box.
他们会把它们放在这个纸板箱里。
And we would bring home this giant box full of those tin foil covered Arby's roast beef sandwiches, and we would stuff them in our freezer.
我们会把这个装满锡纸的阿比烤牛肉三明治的大盒子带回家，然后把它们塞进冰箱里。
We would freeze the Arby's roast beef sandwiches and then we would have them there.
我们会把阿比烤牛肉三明治冷冻起来，然后把它们放在那里。
Buns and all?
包子什么的？
Joel Lovell Buns and all, yeah.
乔尔·洛弗尔面包等等，是的。
And so we would have them there as ready made snacks whenever we might want one.
因此，只要我们需要，我们就会将它们作为现成的零食放在那儿。
I mean, that's the kind of meat eating that my family was engaged in.
我的意思是，我的家人就是这样吃肉的。
The other things was that I had these run ins with doubting my British identity,
另一件事是我对自己的英国身份产生了怀疑，
Oh really?
哦，真的吗？
Sean Cole Yeah, as though it were slipping away.
肖恩·科尔 是的，好像它正在溜走。
And I would really go nuts at that point.
那时我真的会发疯。
And there was one time it happened at home.
有一次，家里也发生过这样的事。
I was at home, and I was like, oh my god, I have to do something.
我当时在家，心想，天哪，我必须做点什么。
I have to affirm my devotion.
我必须肯定我的奉献精神。
I opened up the window and I psyched myself to do it.
我打开窗户，鼓起勇气去这么做。
I was just like, oh man, if I don't do this, it won't come back.
我当时想，天哪，如果我不这样做，它就不会回来了。
And I opened up the window, and then I screamed-- this is in the middle of the night, or, ten at night.
我打开窗户，然后我尖叫起来——现在是半夜，或者说，晚上十点。
And I screamed I love England, of course in a British accent, outside the window.
我在窗外尖叫着我爱英国，当然是用英国口音。
And then you felt better?
然后你感觉好多了？
You felt like you had reasserted yourself?
你觉得你重新证明了自己吗？
I felt like I had done something, at least.
至少我觉得我做了一些事情。
For England.
对于英格兰来说。
Sean Cole Yeah.
肖恩·科尔 是的。
I had fortified my Britishness.
我强化了我的英国血统。
I would find myself in these conversations where people were saying, you've never had a McDonald's hamburger.
我会发现自己在这些谈话中，人们说，你从来没有吃过麦当劳的汉堡。
What kind of American, 18 year old American, has never had a hamburger from McDonald's?
什么样的美国人，18岁的美国人，从来没有吃过麦当劳的汉堡？
Quite a legitimate question, I would add.
我想补充一下，这是一个相当合理的问题。
Absolutely, absolutely.
绝对，绝对。
And I would say, yeah, you know.
我会说，是的，你知道。
I've just never had one, they scare me.
我只是从来没有吃过，他们吓到我了。
And I would talk about the ways-- and I would make up these stories about how I'd come close a couple of times.
我会谈论这些方法——我会编造这些故事，讲述我如何有几次接近成功。
How a friend of mine in high school had bought me a Big Mac and there I was, sitting on the front seat of his car, and I almost ate it, and then couldn't bring myself to do it.
我高中时的一个朋友给我买了一个巨无霸，而我坐在他汽车的前座上，我差点就吃了它，然后却无法让自己这么做。
So there was all the drama that I lied about.
所以这就是我撒谎的所有戏剧性事件。
My mom and Dad came down to visit for parents' weekend, and they were really proud that I was going there, and really excited to come down.
我的妈妈和爸爸来看望父母周末，他们对我去那里感到非常自豪，并且非常兴奋能下来。
And they came down to visit.
他们下来参观。
And really proud because you were the first generation to go to college, you made it into this Ivy League school, it was a big, big deal.
真的很自豪，因为你们是第一代上大学的人，你们进入了常春藤盟校，这是一件非常非常大的事情。
Right, exactly.
对，完全正确。
Exactly.
确切地。
And so they drove down from Camillus, which is about between an hour and an hour and a half, they came down.
于是他们从卡米卢斯开车下来，大约一个小时到一个半小时，他们就下来了。
And in that week leading up to parents' weekend, everybody's talking about their parents coming, and everybody's making reservations at restaurants, where to eat on Saturday night, and everybody's sort of planning on taking their parents to the football game on Saturday during the day.
在父母周末之前的那一周，每个人都在谈论他们的父母要来，每个人都在预订餐馆，周六晚上去哪里吃饭，每个人都计划在周六白天带父母去看足球比赛。
And it suddenly occurred to me, this real panic set it, that my parents would come down, and we would go to a football game and my dad would buy a hot dog.
我突然想到，这种真正的恐慌引发了我的父母会下来，我们会去看一场足球比赛，我爸爸会买一个热狗。
And somebody across the field would see Mr. Lovell eating a hot dog.
田野对面的人会看到洛弗尔先生正在吃热狗。
And then, of course, the cat would be out of the bag.
然后，当然，秘密就会泄露出去。
And so I thought, I've got to make a reservation at a restaurant.
所以我想，我必须预订一家餐厅。
At someplace either, A, where nobody else's parents will be, or at a vegetarian restaurant.
要么在某个地方，A，没有其他人的父母会在的地方，要么在一家素食餐厅。
And so what I did was make a reservation at the Moosewood Restaurant, which is in Ithaca.
所以我所做的就是在伊萨卡岛的穆斯伍德餐厅预订房间。
There's the Moosewood cookbooks that are out.
穆斯伍德食谱已经出版了。
Vegetarian cookbooks.
素食食谱。
Joel Lovell Exactly, yeah.
乔尔·洛弗尔 确实如此，是的。
And it's this nice little vegetarian restaurant in Ithaca, and a slightly famous place.
这是伊萨卡岛的一家不错的小素食餐厅，也是一个稍微有名的地方。
But then we got there.
但后来我们到了那里。
And I remember sitting down at the table in the Moosewood, and the bowls are these kind of carved wooden bowls, and everything about it feels like a vegetarian restaurant.
我记得坐在穆斯伍德的桌子旁，碗是这种雕刻的木碗，一切都感觉像一家素食餐厅。
And not just a vegetarian restaurant, but kind of a cartoon of a vegetarian restaurant.
而且不只是一家素食餐厅，而是一种素食餐厅的漫画。
Exactly.
确切地。
Exactly.
确切地。
And I was looking at my parents across the table, and they were dressed up and they were excited to be coming down, and I could tell my dad was sitting there and sort of perusing the menu and thinking, well, maybe this lentil salad will be good.
我看着桌子对面的父母，他们盛装打扮，很高兴能下来，我看得出来我爸爸坐在那里，仔细阅读菜单，心想，好吧，也许这个扁豆沙拉会很好吃。
Or whatever.
或者无论如何。
And I could he was sitting there thinking geeze, I just drove an hour and a half, all I want is a steak, and a baked potato, and a beer.
我可能他坐在那里想天哪，我才开了一个半小时，我想要的只是一份牛排、一个烤土豆和一杯啤酒。
And there I was bringing them here.
我把他们带到了这里。
But they were so game about it.
但他们对此非常感兴趣。
They were so willing to go along with it because, for some reason, they thought I really wanted to bring them there.
他们非常愿意同意，因为出于某种原因，他们认为我真的想带他们去那里。
And I just thought, geeze, you know, these people, my parents, have really given up a lot for me to come there.
我只是想，天哪，你知道，这些人，我的父母，为了我来到那里真的放弃了很多。
I mean, financially they were really stretching themselves, and we were taking out all sorts of loans, and all of those things that people do in order to go to college.
我的意思是，在经济上，他们确实在捉襟见肘，我们申请了各种各样的贷款，以及人们为了上大学而做的所有事情。
They never complained once about doing it.
他们从来没有抱怨过这样做。
They just wanted to come down and see me there and feel all proud that I was there, and I was sort of hiding them out in this vegetarian restaurant.
他们只是想下来看看我在那里，并为我在那里感到自豪，而我有点把他们藏在这家素食餐厅里。
And I felt so bad about it afterwards.
后来我对此感到非常难过。
And they never once complained.
他们从来没有抱怨过。
They went home, and I sort of imagine them stopping at a Hardy's just outside of Ithaca, getting a burger as soon as they say goodbye.
他们回家了，我有点想象他们在伊萨卡郊外的一家哈迪店停下来，一告别就买了一个汉堡。
But after that I just thought geeze, I've got to find some way to come clean about this.
但在那之后我只是想天哪，我必须找到一些方法来澄清这件事。
I mean, is it OK if your child decides to express themself in an alternate personality for a period of two years.
我的意思是，如果您的孩子决定在两年内以另一种性格表达自己，可以吗？
I think there's-- it's funny, I never thought I would say this-- but I think there's nothing wrong with that.
我认为——这很有趣，我从没想过我会这么说——但我认为这没有什么问题。
I never thought I would say it because I wish that I hadn't done it now.
我从没想过我会这么说，因为我希望我现在没有这么做。
But maybe I learned something from doing it.
但也许我从这样做中学到了一些东西。
I mean, I think that that is par for the course.
我的意思是，我认为这是理所当然的。
Now I think that's part of growing up.
现在我认为这是成长的一部分。
I think it was probably necessary for me at that time in my life.
我想这对当时的我来说可能是必要的。
Yeah, and there was some ridge that that this allowed me to cross.
是的，有一些山脊可以让我跨越。
Joel Lovell and Sean Cole.
乔尔·洛弗尔和肖恩·科尔。
Joel Lovell is a writer in New York City.
乔尔·洛弗尔是纽约市的一位作家。
Sean Cole works in public radio in Boston.
肖恩·科尔在波士顿公共广播电台工作。
Act two, Conning the Con Men.
第二幕，欺骗骗子。
The American legal system, for the most part, does not uphold the principle of eye for an eye.
美国的法律体系在很大程度上并不坚持以眼还眼的原则。
If you steal somebody's car, the police do not steal your car in return.
如果您偷了某人的车，警察不会偷您的车作为回报。
If they catch you selling marijuana, they do not sell marijuana to you as your punishment.
如果他们抓到你卖大麻，他们不会卖大麻给你作为对你的惩罚。
But if you're in the business of running scams, authorities catch you by running a scam on you.
但如果您从事诈骗活动，当局就会通过对您进行诈骗来抓捕您。
This is the story of a con man who made millions by fooling people over the phone, until he was the one who got fooled.
这是一个骗子的故事，他通过电话愚弄别人，赚了数百万美元，直到他自己成为被愚弄的人。
Nancy Updike reports.
南希·厄普代克报道。
The guy's name is David Diamond.
这个人的名字叫大卫·戴蒙德。
That's his actual name.
这是他的真名。
He was one of the most successful salesman in one of the longest running telemarketing scams in Los Angeles history.
他是洛杉矶历史上持续时间最长的电话营销骗局之一中最成功的推销员之一。
David Diamond was a salesman at a boiler room.
大卫·戴蒙德 (David Diamond) 是一家锅炉房的推销员。
This is Dale Sekovich.
这是戴尔·塞科维奇。
He's been a Federal Trade Commission investigator for 29 years.
他担任联邦贸易委员会调查员已有 29 年。
He's the one who busted Diamond.
他就是打败戴蒙德的人。
He was living in a very expensive home up in the hills of Woodland Hills.
他住在伍德兰希尔斯山上一栋非常昂贵的房子里。
He drove a custom Porsche Carrera that he had shipped over here by airplane from Germany from the factory.
他开的是一辆定制的保时捷卡雷拉，是他从工厂乘飞机从德国运到这里的。
They lived very high on the hog.
他们生活得很奢侈。
David Diamond was just one of a whole bunch of guys making money hand over fist in an operation in southern California that was basically running the same scam over and over, under different names, for seven years.
大卫戴蒙德（David Diamond）只是在南加州的一家公司中大手大脚赚钱的一大群人之一，该公司基本上以不同的名义一遍又一遍地进行同样的骗局，长达七年之久。
It was an investment scheme.
这是一个投资计划。
Give us your money and we'll put it into this great 900 number business, or this online shopping network, or this hot new internet service provider.
把您的钱交给我们，我们将把它投入到这个伟大的 900 号码业务、这个在线购物网络、或者这个热门的新兴互联网服务提供商中。
Needless to say, no one ever made a dime, except the people running the scam who cleared $40 million.
不用说，除了骗局的实施者赚了 4000 万美元之外，没有人赚过一分钱。
Since Diamond was one of the operation's top salesmen, he made $2 million in commissions in just four years on the job.
由于戴蒙德是该公司的顶级推销员之一，他在工作的短短四年内就赚取了 200 万美元的佣金。
He got 30% of whatever he talked a person into investing.
他说服别人投资的一切，他都得到了 30%。
That means he personally conned people out of more than $6 million.
这意味着他个人骗取了超过 600 万美元。
The FTC caught Diamond and the others in the operation essentially by conning the con men.
联邦贸易委员会本质上是通过欺骗骗子来抓获戴蒙德和其他人的。
They had volunteers pose as dupes and record their phone calls.
他们让志愿者装扮成受骗者并记录他们的电话。
Because the FTC brought a case against the operation Diamond worked in, some of those recordings are now part of the public record.
由于联邦贸易委员会对戴蒙德参与的行动提起诉讼，其中一些录音现已成为公共记录的一部分。
I got Dale Sekovich to listen to the tapes with me, and talk about David Diamond and the FBI volunteer who caught him.
我让戴尔·塞科维奇和我一起听录音，并谈论大卫·戴蒙德和抓获他的联邦调查局志愿者。
The woman on the tape, I can't tell you her real name, but she uses the alias of Marge.
录音带上的那个女人，我不能告诉你她的真名，但她用的化名是玛吉。
She assumed the identity of a person who is named Marge.
她假扮了一个名叫玛吉的人。
Marge was a real person who we in law enforcement and who people in the telemarketing business refer to as a mooch.
玛吉是一个真实的人，我们执法部门的人以及电话营销行业的人都将她称为“mooch”。
A mooch is someone who will essentially buy anything from anybody who calls her on the telephone.
mooch 基本上会从任何打电话给她的人那里购买任何东西。
In fact she did, over a number of years.
事实上，多年来她确实做到了。
She spent hundreds of thousands of dollars--
她花了数十万美元——
The real Marge.
真正的玛吉.
Dale Sekovich The real Marge spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on bogus prize promotions, investments, gold coins, you name it.
戴尔·塞科维奇 (Dale Sekovich) 真正的玛吉在虚假的奖品促销、投资、金币等方面花费了数十万美元。
So the FBI went to Marge and said, we really think that we need to take your telephone number away from you, because it's being used to ruin your life.
所以联邦调查局找到玛吉说，我们真的认为我们需要拿走你的电话号码，因为它被用来毁了你的生活。
So once Marge agreed to that, her telephone number was installed in the home of an FBI volunteer.
因此，一旦玛吉同意，她的电话号码就被安装在一名联邦调查局志愿者的家中。
And that volunteer, every time that phone line rang, the Marge line, that volunteer would pick up that telephone, and answer it, and pose as Marge.
那个志愿者，每次电话线响起，玛吉线，那个志愿者就会拿起电话，接听，并冒充玛吉。
Yeah.
是的。
I set you up a video and a package.
我给你准备了一个视频和一个包。
Yes, I have it.
是的，我有。
David Diamond OK.
大卫·戴蒙德 好的。
The video is with regard to Mark Erickson.
该视频是关于马克·埃里克森的。
Mark Erickson is the person who is heading up the program.
马克·埃里克森是该计划的负责人。
And he is very successful in taking upstart companies and making them successful.
他非常成功地收购了新兴公司并让它们取得了成功。
You've probably heard of Hard Copy.
您可能听说过硬拷贝。
He's the original producer of Hard Copy.
他是《Hard Copy》的原始制作人。
I've heard of it, yes.
我听说过，是的。
David Diamond OK.
大卫·戴蒙德 好的。
You're smiling as you listen to this.
当你听到这句话的时候你正在微笑。
What are you smiling about?
你在笑什么？
Well I'm smiling because it's been a while since I've heard Marge, and she sounds so old, and so fragile, and such an easy mark, when in fact she's this sharp FBI informant.
好吧，我笑了，因为我已经有一段时间没有听到玛吉的声音了，她听起来那么老，那么脆弱，而且很容易被标记，而事实上她是一位敏锐的联邦调查局线人。
She doesn't look as old as she sounds, trust me.
她看起来并不像听起来那么老，相信我。
So that's one aspect of it.
这是一方面。
The other aspect is this whole Mark Erickson thing.
另一方面是马克·埃里克森的事情。
Yeah, is he a real person?
是啊，他是真人吗？
Dale Sekovich Mark Erickson is a real person.
戴尔·塞科维奇·马克·埃里克森是一个真实的人。
He was named in our lawsuit.
他在我们的诉讼中被点名。
And was he an original producer of Hard Copy?
他是硬拷贝的原创制作人吗？
No. He was a segment producer and on the air reporter for Hard Copy for a brief period of time.
没有。他曾短暂担任《Hard Copy》的片段制作人和广播记者。
And is this sort of typical of the cons in the tapes that you've heard, that they'll try to associate what they're selling with a legitimate business or organization or television show, something that people have heard of.
这是你听过的磁带中典型的缺点，他们会试图将他们销售的东西与合法的企业、组织或电视节目联系起来，人们都听说过这些东西。
Exactly.
确切地。
They want to make this something people can relate to.
他们想让这成为人们能够产生共鸣的东西。
Here's the thing.
事情是这样的。
You have to invest everything you've got, or do nothing at all.
你必须投入你拥有的一切，或者什么都不做。
And I'll say that again.
我再说一遍。
You should invest everything you have.
你应该投资你拥有的一切。
You should transfer all of your investments into this program or do nothing.
您应该将所有投资转移到该计划中，或者什么也不做。
It doesn't make sense to do just a little bit.
只做一点点是没有意义的。
You should think about doing a million dollars in this program.
你应该考虑在这个项目上投入一百万美元。
Oh.
哦。
I don't know.
我不知道。
That's a lot of money.
那是很多钱。
You need to liquidate every nickel you've got.
你需要清算你拥有的每一分钱。
You either want to be in this situation, you either want to be in the situation wholeheartedly and upgrade your investments, or you don't.
您要么想处于这种情况，要么想全心全意地处于这种情况并升级您的投资，要么不想。
My suggestion to you is just do the whole thing.
我给你的建议是把事情全部做好。
Well, I would never liquidate everything I have.
好吧，我永远不会清算我所拥有的一切。
My question is, why not?
我的问题是，为什么不呢？
Marge Because there's always gambles in anything like this.
玛吉：因为这种事总有赌博的成分。
Anything like what?
有什么类似的吗？
Marge Well, any investment like this.
玛吉 嗯，任何这样的投资。
Well, anything you invest in, there's always a gamble.
嗯，无论你投资什么，都意味着赌博。
Now I want to ask you, you told me once that you thought he sounded nervous on this tape.
现在我想问你，你曾经告诉我你认为他在这盘磁带上听起来很紧张。
And in this part where she's saying, you know, an investment like this.
在这一部分，她说，你知道，这样的投资。
And he's sort of questioning her, well, what do you mean like this.
他有点在质问她，嗯，你这样问是什么意思。
I wonder, do you have any sense that he's suspicious that she might know what he's up to.
我想知道，你是否感觉到他怀疑她可能知道他在做什么。
I mean, did they know that volunteers are out there trying to trap them posing as dupes?
我的意思是，他们是否知道志愿者正在试图冒充骗子来诱捕他们？
No. Since we talked about this tape last, I actually had a revelation that came to me as to why.
不。自从我们上次讨论过这盘磁带以来，我实际上得到了一个关于原因的启示。
I listened to over 40 individual tapes of David Diamond.
我听了 40 多张 David Diamond 的个人磁带。
Of conversations with Marge and conversations with others over the course of about a year.
在大约一年的时间里与玛吉以及与其他人的对话。
And one of the things, when you've listen to all of them, you find that David, in the earlier part of that year, was much more sweet and cautious, and trying to bond with these women.
其中一件事是，当你听完她们所有人的讲话时，你会发现大卫在那年早些时候变得更加甜蜜和谨慎，并试图与这些女性建立联系。
And patient.
并且有耐心。
And sometimes would spend an hour on the phone with them.
有时会花一个小时与他们通电话。
The tape would be an hour long.
磁带将长达一个小时。
But this tape was made towards the very end of that year period.
但这盘磁带是在那一年年底制作的。
Probably within a week or two of our raid.
可能在我们突袭后的一两周内。
Having gone in on the raid, and searched David Diamond's desk that day, I came to realize that David Diamond was starting to question whether he wanted to do this anymore.
那天参加突袭并搜查了大卫·戴蒙德的办公桌后，我开始意识到大卫·戴蒙德开始质疑他是否还想再这样做。
He was starting to really have some concerns about--
他开始真正担心——
Moral concerns?
道德问题？
Dale Sekovich Moral concerns about what they were doing.
戴尔·塞科维奇对他们的所作所为感到道德担忧。
And I believe that in these last couple of weeks, and it's kind of shown in this tape, he was becoming a little bit desperate.
我相信在过去的几周里，正如这盘录像带所显示的那样，他变得有点绝望。
He wanted to make a couple of more big hits, and he just couldn't figure out why this woman wasn't going to write him a check.
他还想再做几件大事，但他就是不明白为什么这个女人不给他开一张支票。
So he started getting frustrated.
所以他开始感到沮丧。
And it comes out in his voice.
这从他的声音中就可以体现出来。
What evidence did you see that he was starting to have moral qualms about what he was doing?
你看到什么证据表明他开始对自己的行为产生道德疑虑？
David had become a born again.
大卫已经重生了。
There were religious tracts all over his office, and posters on his wall.
他的办公室里到处都是宗教小册子，墙上贴着海报。
Just recently?
刚刚？
Dale Sekovich I don't know exactly what the time frame was.
Dale Sekovich 我不知道确切的时间范围。
We do know that he had given a lot of the money that he had made to his church.
我们确实知道他把他赚来的很多钱都捐给了他的教会。
And we believe that a lot of that was sort of a self-imposed penance, that he can justify what he was doing because he was giving his tithings.
我们相信，其中很多都是一种自我强加的忏悔，他可以证明自己所做的事情是合理的，因为他正在奉献自己的什一税。
This money that he was taking from these poor victims into his church.
他从这些可怜的受害者那里拿走的钱捐给了他的教堂。
If $30,000 is what you made on every $5,000, and you put $50,000 into this program, that's $300,000 return.
如果您每 5,000 美元赚取 30,000 美元，并且您将 50,000 美元投入该计划，那么回报就是 300,000 美元。
That's why I'm telling you, you need to do a million dollars in this program.
这就是为什么我告诉你，你需要在这个项目上投入一百万美元。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I would never put that much in, in any program.
我永远不会在任何程序中投入那么多。
Do you have an obligation to yourself as an investor to make the most amount of money possible?
作为投资者，您有义务赚到尽可能多的钱吗？
Well, you know, at my age it's really not that-- what do I want to say-- I have enough to live on for the rest of my life.
嗯，你知道，在我这个年纪，真的不是——我想说什么呢——我的余生已经足够了。
I understand.
我明白。
But is it still in your best interest to make the most amount of money possible if you can find to do it as safely as possible.
但是，如果您能找到尽可能安全的方法，那么赚尽可能多的钱仍然符合您的最佳利益吗？
It's my obligation not to lose what I have.
我有义务不失去我所拥有的。
Correct.
正确的。
But it's also your obligation to keep your money working for you, otherwise, what's the point.
但让你的钱为你工作也是你的义务，否则还有什么意义。
When I heard this part of the tape, even though I knew that this woman, this particular woman, was not getting conned.
当我听到录音带的这一部分时，尽管我知道这个女人，这个特定的女人，并没有被骗。
That she was, in fact, conning him and trapping him, I started to get so angry.
事实上，她是在欺骗他、陷害他，我开始非常生气。
Because I was thinking, he is really trying to take all of this old woman's money.
因为我在想，他真的想把这个老太婆的钱全部拿走。
All of it.
所有这一切。
She's saying, I have enough to live on.
她说，我的生活已经足够了。
He's saying, you have an obligation to make more.
他说，你有义务赚更多钱。
Do you ever hear things like that and just get angry, even though you know that she's in on the con, on the joke?
你是否曾听到这样的事情而感到愤怒，即使你知道她是在骗局、在开玩笑？
Every time I hear these pitches I'm outraged.
每次听到这些言论我都会感到愤怒。
Because I am the person that spoke to people who really did send David Diamond tens of thousands of dollars that consisted of their life savings and now don't have any money, even to buy groceries.
因为我是那个确实给大卫戴蒙德寄了数万美元的人，这些钱是他们毕生的积蓄，但现在却没有钱，甚至连买杂货的钱都没有。
I've interviewed them.
我采访过他们。
I've seen them sob.
我见过他们哭泣。
Yeah, it makes me very angry.
是的，这让我很生气。
We have public companies that want to take you public.
我们有一些上市公司希望让您上市。
So if you've got a public company that's passed judgement on it, it's not even me talking anymore.
因此，如果你有一家上市公司对此做出了判断，那我就不再说话了。
If Mark Erickson wants to do business with you it's not even me talking anymore.
如果马克·埃里克森想和你做生意，我就不再说话了。
You have the ability to make an absolute fortune, and it doesn't make sense not to have every nickel you've got in this particular program.
你有能力赚到绝对的财富，如果不把你所有的钱都花在这个特定的项目上，那是没有意义的。
That's why I said it's an emergency investment situation and you should do at least fifty to a hundred, a hundred and fifty units while you have the opportunity.
所以我说现在是紧急投资情况，有机会的时候至少要做五十到一百、一百五十。
Well, how much are you investing in this?
嗯，你在这方面投资了多少？
I'm not investing anything in this.
我不会在这方面投资任何东西。
My investment comes in the time that I put with my clients.
我的投资来自于我与客户相处的时间。
Right.
正确的。
And the fact that when they make money, they reinvest with me.
事实上，当他们赚钱时，他们会和我一起进行再投资。
Right.
正确的。
David Diamond That's the whole point.
大卫·戴蒙德 这就是重点。
You were smiling again.
你又笑了。
When she said how much are you investing.
当她说你投资多少钱时。
Is she just screwing around with him?
她只是跟他闹着玩吗？
Of course, she's playing with him.
当然，她是在跟他玩。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, she's trained to ask him those kinds of questions so that he responds with a misrepresentation.
我的意思是，她受过训练来问他这类问题，这样他就会做出错误的回答。
But that doesn't sound like it's part of the script.
但这听起来不像是剧本的一部分。
That just sounds like her being mean in sort of a delicious way.
这听起来像是她以某种有趣的方式刻薄。
Well, no. I think what we were trying to do, or her handler was trying to do, was get her to get him to say, oh yeah, I'm in it, and I've got my mother and my grandmother in it.
嗯，不。我想我们想要做的，或者她的经纪人想要做的，就是让她让他说，哦，是的，我在其中，我的母亲和祖母也在其中。
And I'm putting away money for my child's education with it.
我用它来存钱用于我孩子的教育。
Because then we could show later that he hadn't.
因为这样我们以后就可以证明他没有这样做。
Did you ever talk to Marge about what it's like to do this.
你有没有和玛吉谈论过这样做的感觉？
Do they ever sort of have fun, just thinking, I'm just turning the tables on this guy.
他们有没有想过，只是想，我只是在扭转这个家伙的局面。
He has no idea.
他不知道。
I wish I could answer the question.
我希望我能回答这个问题。
I've never spoken to them.
我从来没有和他们说过话。
I'd love to get the answer to that myself.
我很想亲自得到这个问题的答案。
I'd like to ask that question myself.
我想亲自问这个问题。
I think they get a lot of personal satisfaction though.
我认为他们得到了很多个人满足。
How often do you get a chance to catch a bad guy as just a regular civilian.
作为一个普通平民，你有多少机会抓住一个坏人？
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
I do it too, I tape people using an alias in cases that I work.
我也这样做，在我工作的情况下，我会使用别名来记录人们。
And is it fun?
有趣吗？
Dale Sekovich I love it.
戴尔·塞科维奇 我喜欢它。
I love to get these people to tell me stuff.
我喜欢让这些人告诉我一些事情。
It's like acting.
就像演戏一样。
There's a rush.
有一个匆忙。
The rush of a con, the pleasure of it, is knowing that you have more power than the person you're conning.
骗局的快感和乐趣在于知道你比你所骗的人更有权力。
You know more.
你知道更多。
You know that it's a con.
你知道这是一个骗局。
And let's face it, given the choice between being the mark and being the con man, nobody's going to choose to be the mark.
让我们面对现实吧，如果要在成为目标和成为骗子之间做出选择，没有人会选择成为目标。
But the problem is, the more confidence you have in your own con, the more easily you become a mark yourself.
但问题是，你对自己的骗局越有信心，你就越容易成为别人的标记。
Con men get taken by other con men all the time.
骗子总是被其他骗子骗走。
There just seems to be something about the particular arrogance of always being on the knowing side of the con that makes for a really, really good mark.
似乎总是站在骗局知情的一边，这种特殊的傲慢态度使得我们获得了非常非常好的分数。
Nancy Updike, in Los Angeles.
南希·厄普代克，在洛杉矶。
Coming up, the thrill of sitting close to the stage, and the evil that that can lead to.
即将到来的是，坐在靠近舞台的兴奋感，以及可能导致的邪恶。
In a minute, for Public Radio International, when our program continues.
一会儿，国际公共广播电台，我们的节目继续。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme and bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, pulling a hoax on yourself.
今天的节目，给自己开了个骗局。
Stories of people who think that they are fooling others until they're not anymore.
这些故事讲述了一些人认为自己在愚弄别人，直到不再愚弄为止。
We've arrived at act three of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第三幕。
Act three, Outperforming the Performers.
第三幕，超越表演者。
It's a measure of just how hungry people are to create a community that a full fledged, tight knit group of friends could form out of a publicity stunt.
它衡量了人们对创建一个社区的渴望程度，一个成熟的、紧密团结的朋友群体可以通过宣传噱头形成。
Back in 1996, a new musical called Rent was moving from a small theater in New York's East Village to the big time, a Broadway house just a half block from Times Square.
早在 1996 年，一部名为《吉屋出租》的新音乐剧就从纽约东村的一家小剧院搬到距离时代广场仅半个街区的百老汇剧院。
The show presented a romanticized view of what it means to be young and broke.
该节目对年轻和破产的含义提出了浪漫的看法。
And to keep the magical air of youth and poverty in the house, the producers decided that every single night they would sell two rows of seats, the first two rows, some of the best seats in the house, for a price nearly anyone could scrape together.
为了保持房子里年轻和贫穷的神奇气氛，制片人决定每天晚上他们都会出售两排座位，前两排，一些房子里最好的座位，价格几乎任何人都可以凑齐。
$20 a pop, less than a third of what tickets normally sell for on Broadway.
每张 20 美元，不到百老汇通常票价的三分之一。
Hundreds of teens and twenty somethings took the bait.
数百名十几岁和二十多岁的人上钩了。
So many, that if you wanted to get one of the cheap seats, you had to arrive at six o'clock a night before, get in line with a sleeping bag, and stay out all night.
数量如此之多，以至于如果你想获得一个便宜的座位，你必须在前一天晚上六点钟到达，带着睡袋排队，并在外面待上一整夜。
See where they're standing?
看到他们站在哪里了吗？
That's where we used to sleep.
那是我们以前睡觉的地方。
We would sleep all where those photos are.
我们会睡在那些照片所在的地方。
Joe Gillis and Rebecca Allen stand in front of the theater where Rent is still playing, near a row of life-sized pictures of the cast, mounted on a wall by the theater door.
乔·吉利斯和丽贝卡·艾伦站在仍在播放《吉屋出租》的剧院前，靠近剧院门口墙上挂着的一排真人大小的演员照片。
During the show we had to stay out there because they had to keep the marquee area clear.
演出期间，我们必须呆在那里，因为他们必须保持大帐篷区域的畅通。
So as soon as the show was over and they closed the doors, we'd all run over, and we all like, claim our spot because we'd all want to sleep under our favorite cast member.
因此，一旦演出结束，他们关上门，我们都会跑过去，我们都想占据自己的位置，因为我们都想睡在我们最喜欢的演员下面。
And so which one was yours?
那么哪一件是你的呢？
Joe Gillis I slept under Daphne once and I think I slept under Anthony another time.
乔·吉利斯 我曾经睡过达芙妮的身下，我想我也睡过安东尼的身下。
You're sleeping on the pavement while people walk by, ignoring you.
你睡在人行道上，而人们走过，无视你。
And you're like, yeah, I'm just like those people in the play.
你会说，是的，我就像剧中的那些人一样。
You don't really think that.
你其实并不这么认为。
A small part of you thinks that.
你们中的一小部分人这么认为。
And will identify more with the play, the more you can be like it.
并且会越认同这部剧，就越能喜欢它。
When they were in line, everybody would hang out all day.
当他们排队的时候，每个人都会闲逛一整天。
Grab some food at McDonald's or at the diner across the street.
在麦当劳或街对面的小餐馆吃点东西。
And the fans who didn't show up at the theater on any given day would communicate through an email list with hundreds of Rent heads on it.
任何一天没有出现在剧院的粉丝都会通过电子邮件列表进行交流，上面有数百个《出租》的头像。
Most of them were suburban kids like Joe and Rebecca.
他们大多数是像乔和丽贝卡这样的郊区孩子。
Students.
学生。
Joe says that he was closer to the Rent fans than to his friends back in high school.
乔说，他与《吉屋出租》粉丝的关系比与高中时的朋友更亲近。
It was on the Rent line that he first came out as gay, long before his friends back home knew.
早在他家乡的朋友们知道之前，他就在《出租》热线中首次公开了自己的同性恋身份。
For lots of teenagers, this was the first community that felt like their own.
对于许多青少年来说，这是第一个感觉像自己的社区。
It's easy to see why they like the show which unironically celebrates what it unironically calls the bohemian life, in French.
很容易理解为什么他们喜欢这部用法语讽刺地庆祝波西米亚生活的节目。
A life of poverty and love and art.
贫穷、爱和艺术的生活。
The setting is contemporary New York.
背景是当代纽约。
The characters are homosexuals, homeless people, interracial couples, drug addicts, flailing artists, and doomed HIV positive lovers.
这些角色包括同性恋者、无家可归者、跨种族夫妇、吸毒者、精神失常的艺术家和注定的艾滋病毒阳性恋人。
The mood of the show is at once fantastically idealistic and desperately tragic.
这部剧的基调既极其理想主义又极其悲惨。
Several characters are dying of AIDS.
有几个角色死于艾滋病。
And among the throngs of young people who are drawn to the magnetic pool of Rent's message that you should live each day like it's your only day on Earth was a young student who we'll call Stephanie.
在一群被《吉屋出租》的信息所吸引的年轻人中，有一位年轻的学生，我们称她为斯蒂芬妮，她应该像地球上唯一的一天一样生活每一天。
All of our interviewees also agreed to call her Stephanie.
我们所有的受访者也同意称她为斯蒂芬妮。
We met about two and a half, three years ago, when we were both interested in the musical Rent.
我们大约三年前认识了，当时我们都对音乐剧《吉屋出租》感兴趣。
We belonged to the same mailing list online.
我们属于同一个在线邮件列表。
And she drove up to New York with some friends from college and they stayed in my apartment while they went to see the show.
她和一些大学朋友开车去了纽约，他们去看演出时住在我的公寓里。
This is Catherine Skidmore, a friend of Stephanie's and one of the ringleaders among the Rent fans.
这是凯瑟琳·斯基德莫尔，斯蒂芬妮的朋友，也是吉屋出租粉丝中的头目之一。
She was a founder of one of the big internet mailing lists about the show.
她是有关该节目的大型互联网邮件列表之一的创始人。
She's young, used to run in computer hacker circles.
她很年轻，曾经在电脑黑客圈子里混过。
One of her tattoos is her social security number in binary code.
她的纹身之一是她的二进制社会安全号码。
Now she works for a web start up.
现在她在一家网络初创公司工作。
Stephanie was one of the many people she got to know, back during the heyday of Rent.
斯蒂芬妮是她在《出租》全盛时期认识的众多人之一。
I lived the closest to the theater out of anybody.
在所有人中，我住的地方离剧院最近。
And I think I was the only person in the line who had her own apartment, so I used to let friends stay with me when they drove up.
我想我是队伍中唯一拥有自己公寓的人，所以我常常让朋友开车过来时和我住在一起。
How often would you let somebody stay with you?
您多久会让某人和您一起住？
I think every weekend or every other weekend.
我想每个周末或每隔一个周末。
It got turned into the hotel Catherine.
它变成了凯瑟琳酒店。
She says Stephanie let everyone know that she had a medical condition called autonomic neuropathy.
她说斯蒂芬妮让每个人都知道她患有一种称为自主神经病的疾病。
And she said it was terminal.
她说已经是晚期了。
She told this people on the line and she told it to members of the cast of Rent.
她在电话里告诉了这些人，也告诉了《吉屋出租》的演员们。
When she was in New York she used to come to the stage door and ask the actors to give her tours backstage, or ask them out for lunch or dinner.
当她在纽约时，她常常来到舞台门口，请演员们带她参观后台，或者请他们出去吃午餐或晚餐。
When she would email us Stephanie would say, I'm not feeling great.
当她给我们发电子邮件时，斯蒂芬妮会说，我感觉不太好。
Could you ask the cast to send me a card, could you ask them to email me.
你能请演员们给我寄一张卡片吗？你能请他们给我发电子邮件吗？
I first got a letter that she kind of sent the same letter to several of us in the cast in New York.
我首先收到一封信，说她给纽约的几个演员发了同样的信。
Anthony Rapp played the lead role in Rent.
安东尼·拉普在《吉屋出租》中担任主角。
She was a young aspiring actress, student who was suffering from an illness, and that the show brought her great comfort.
她是一位年轻有抱负的演员，也是一名饱受病痛折磨的学生，这部剧给她带来了很大的安慰。
And she didn't know how long she had to live.
而她也不知道自己还能活多久。
You know, my heart went out to her, as all of our hearts did.
你知道，我的心与她同在，就像我们所有人的心一样。
You know, my heart just went out to her.
你知道，我的心都向她倾诉了。
It really did.
确实如此。
And whenever she came to the show I would make sure that I would try to spend a little time with her.
每当她来看演出时，我都会确保花一点时间和她在一起。
We'd gone out to dinner a couple times, and we'd sit around and talk, and I called her on the phone.
我们出去吃了几次晚饭，我们坐在一起聊天，我给她打电话。
I gave her my home number.
我给了她我的家庭电话号码。
And it was to the point where I literally made a point of praying for this girl each and every night.
以至于我每天晚上都认真地为这个女孩祈祷。
Well ultimately what we were hearing was that she was about to have this major surgery and that she was very scared about it.
好吧，最终我们听到的是她即将接受这次大手术，并且她对此非常害怕。
And that she came to New York right before she was going to have it.
她在即将拥有它之前就来到了纽约。
That was when Gwen Stewart and I went to lunch with her.
那时我和格温·斯图尔特和她一起去吃午饭。
She said that she was contemplating suicide.
她说她正在考虑自杀。
And I'm a spiritual person, and I'd gone as far as to look up all these scriptures to support life and to support hope and faith.
我是一个有灵性的人，我甚至查阅了所有这些经文来支持生命、支持希望和信仰。
And I would give them to her and tell her to read her Bible.
我会把它们给她并告诉她读圣经。
And a lot of the conversations were like that.
很多谈话都是这样的。
And then, you know, if it got a little too heavy, we'd swing it around to Rent.
然后，你知道，如果它有点太重了，我们会把它转为租金。
And at that lunch she brought out some medical paraphernalia.
午餐时，她拿出了一些医疗用具。
Like a syringe, and like an IV tube thing.
就像注射器，就像静脉注射管一样。
She went off to the bathroom to supposedly administer herself some medication.
她去了洗手间，据说是给自己吃药。
After her lunch with the stars in New York, Stephanie flew back to the city where she was from, where she dropped in on a touring company of Rent which happened to be performing there.
在纽约与明星们共进午餐后，斯蒂芬妮飞回了她原来的城市，在那里她顺便拜访了正好在那里演出的Rent 巡回演出公司。
She was getting to know them and befriending them and telling them her story and they held a prayer circle for her the night before her supposed surgery.
她开始了解他们，与他们成为朋友，并向他们讲述她的故事，他们在她进行手术的前一天晚上为她举行了祈祷圈。
Yeah, she was backstage and she was there with the cast and they held a prayer circle for her.
是的，她在后台，她和演员们在一起，他们为她举行了祈祷圈。
Perhaps you've already figured out where all this is going.
也许你已经知道这一切的去向了。
In the end, Stephanie did not turn out of any kind of terminal condition.
最终，斯蒂芬妮并没有脱离任何绝症。
What's remarkable about her story is how far she was able to push the lie, and how compulsively she did it, almost like it was out of her control to stop herself.
她的故事的非凡之处在于她能够将谎言推向多大程度，而且她是多么强迫性地这样做，几乎就像她无法控制自己来阻止自己一样。
As she got sicker, her friends in New York started to get emails from someone named Monica, who claimed to be a friend of Stephanie's.
随着她病情的加重，她在纽约的朋友开始收到一个名叫莫妮卡的人发来的电子邮件，该人自称是斯蒂芬妮的朋友。
It was Monica who wrote them when Stephanie went into surgery.
当斯蒂芬妮接受手术时，莫妮卡写了这些信。
Monica gave lengthy accounts of Stephanie's condition, and urged them to organize get well cards and calls from the cast.
莫妮卡详细介绍了斯蒂芬妮的病情，并敦促他们组织康复卡和演员们的电话。
Catherine later collected all of Monica's and Stephanie's emails into a massive document that she calls the log of deception.
凯瑟琳后来将莫妮卡和斯蒂芬妮的所有电子邮件收集到一个庞大的文档中，她称之为欺骗日志。
With her roommate Jen Eldridge, who also met Stephanie on the Rent line and considered her a close friend, Catherine stood at her computer and scrolled through the log.
凯瑟琳和她的室友珍·埃尔德里奇（Jen Eldridge）也通过 Rent 热线认识了斯蒂芬妮，并认为她是亲密的朋友，凯瑟琳和她的室友珍·埃尔德里奇一起站在电脑前，滚动着日志。
Yeah, oh, where's my favorite one.
是啊，哦，我最喜欢的那一个在哪里？
Yeah, Monica emails are good.
是的，莫妮卡的电子邮件很好。
Find the one about the coma.
找到关于昏迷的那个。
That's [INTERPOSING VOICES]
那是[插入声音]
The suicide one.
自杀者。
Catherine Skidmore The suicide one's good, too.
凯瑟琳·斯基德莫尔 自杀的也不错。
There's coma and suicide.
有昏迷和自杀。
Here we go.
开始了。
This is an email from Monica on Friday, November 7, 1997, at 9:00 PM.
这是莫妮卡于 1997 年 11 月 7 日星期五晚上 9:00 发来的一封电子邮件。
Where she says, she sent this directly to me.
她说的，她直接把这个发给我了。
I'm at Stephanie's, I just followed the EMTs out to the ambulance.
我在斯蒂芬妮家，刚刚跟着急救人员上了救护车。
Stephanie tried to end it all tonight.
斯蒂芬妮今晚试图结束这一切。
I found a syringe and an empty container of morphine.
我找到了一个注射器和一个装吗啡的空容器。
She didn't know that I was coming to check on her, blah, blah, blah, they say she'll be OK, and I caught her just in time.
她不知道我要来看她，等等，等等，他们说她会没事的，我及时抓住了她。
She really went all out, and I don't know how much of this she planned or how much--
她真是全力以赴，不知道她到底计划了多少，又做了多少——
And keep in mind, this is a weekend she knew that all of her friends were converging in New York at Catherine's apartment.
请记住，这是一个周末，她知道她所有的朋友都聚集在纽约凯瑟琳的公寓里。
Like we were all going to be there together when this email came.
就像当这封电子邮件到来时我们都会在一起一样。
And I think we were all in different levels of transit when you got this email and started just being very upset.
我认为当你收到这封电子邮件并开始感到非常沮丧时，我们都处于不同的过渡阶段。
And trying to get contact, and everybody's in cars and on trains trying to get there.
为了取得联系，每个人都在汽车和火车上试图到达那里。
And then what happen once you all knew that she was--
一旦你们都知道她是——
We tried to call the hospitals, and we tried to call 911 to see if they had a record of it.
我们尝试给医院打电话，也尝试拨打911，看看他们是否有相关记录。
I called Kenny.
我打电话给肯尼。
Oh, you tried to call her in a hospital and you couldn't find her.
哦，你试图给医院里的她打电话却找不到她。
We could find her.
我们可以找到她。
No hospitals in her area had records of her being checked in.
她所在地区的医院没有她入住的记录。
So we just said, oh my god, she's somewhere and we can't get to her, and we don't know what to do.
所以我们只是说，天哪，她在某个地方，我们无法联系到她，而且我们不知道该怎么办。
And nobody knew what to do.
没有人知道该怎么做。
It's amazing how un-thought out it is.
令人惊奇的是它是多么未经深思熟虑。
What did she think you were going to do once you got that email?
一旦你收到那封电子邮件，她认为你会做什么？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Ira Glass And so your evening together, like where all of you were going to be together hanging out, ended up being completely--
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）所以你们在一起的夜晚，就像你们所有人一起出去玩的地方，最终完全是——
It was pretty miserable.
真是惨不忍睹。
Yeah, it was really miserable.
是的，当时确实很惨。
We went, I guess we saw the show.
我们去了，我想我们看了演出。
Everybody bawled their way through it and cried their way through it.
每个人都在其中痛哭流涕，痛哭流涕。
And went and told the cast members, of course, because that's what we thought she'd want us to do.
当然，我们还去告诉了演员们，因为我们认为她希望我们这么做。
There was one person who always got Monica's story.
有一个人总是了解莫妮卡的故事。
Josh Safran, who at the time was boyfriends with the star of Rent, Anthony Rapp.
乔什·萨夫兰（Josh Safran）当时是《吉屋出租》明星安东尼·拉普的男友。
Josh not only doubted that Stephanie was sick, he felt horribly guilty for doubting her.
乔什不仅怀疑斯蒂芬妮生病了，而且还因为怀疑她而感到非常内疚。
This was his problem in a nutshell, he says.
他说，简而言之，这就是他的问题。
Anthony was all about trusting and loving people.
安东尼非常信任和爱人。
He was all about cynicism and mistrust.
他充满了愤世嫉俗和不信任。
Fortunately for him, his friends Sean and Michelle also doubted Stephanie.
对他来说幸运的是，他的朋友肖恩和米歇尔也怀疑斯蒂芬妮。
So we were suspicious.
所以我们很怀疑。
We were talking more about it for a few days, but then she goes to the hospital, and she goes into a coma.
我们讨论了几天，但后来她去了医院，然后就陷入了昏迷。
That is, an email from Monica said Stephanie was in a coma.
也就是说，莫妮卡发来的一封电子邮件说斯蒂芬妮处于昏迷状态。
And when this happened Catherine, who wasn't doubting at all, made a decision.
而当这一切发生时，没有丝毫怀疑的凯瑟琳就做出了决定。
I talked to Catherine, and Catherine was like, even though she doesn't want us to go there, even though Stephanie doesn't want any visitors, we're going to go.
我和凯瑟琳谈过，凯瑟琳说，尽管她不希望我们去那里，尽管斯蒂芬妮不想要任何访客，但我们还是要去。
She's in a coma.
她处于昏迷状态。
We should be there.
我们应该在那里。
And I said good.
我说好。
And I said, tell Monica.
我说，告诉莫妮卡。
And as soon as they told Monica, Stephanie woke up.
他们一告诉莫妮卡，斯蒂芬妮就醒了。
As soon as that happened, Sean and Michelle and I were positive that we got her.
事情一发生，肖恩、米歇尔和我就确信我们抓到了她。
Why?
为什么？
Why, what did that mean to you that she woke up at that moment.
哎呀，她在那一刻醒来对你来说意味着什么？
She woke up so they didn't have to come.
她醒了，所以他们不必来了。
That was Monica, the way she phrased it in the email was, oh, she's better, you don't have to come.
那是莫妮卡，她在电子邮件中的措辞是，哦，她更好，你不必来。
She'd like to see you in a few days.
她想几天后见到你。
It was so obvious that she was pushing off.
很明显，她正在推开。
So we needed to find a way to make sure.
所以我们需要找到一种方法来确定。
How to make sure.
如何确定。
Well, it turns out that we live in a country where, if there's an emergency requiring a plumber or an electrician or a mechanic, people turn to professionals.
事实证明，在我们生活的国家，如果出现紧急情况需要水管工、电工或机械师，人们就会求助于专业人员。
But when it comes to detective work, deep down, we all believe we're capable of it.
但当谈到侦探工作时，我们内心深处都相信自己有能力胜任。
It really became a crusade.
这真的变成了一场十字军东征。
I mean, there were three days where none of us slept.
我的意思是，我们三天都没有睡觉。
We only worked on this.
我们只致力于这一点。
And that was insane.
那太疯狂了。
It's embarrassing to think about it.
想想都觉得尴尬。
They called dozens of hospitals in the city where Stephanie lived, asking if she was a patient.
他们给斯蒂芬妮居住的城市的数十家医院打电话，询问她是否是病人。
They researched the disease she supposedly had, they pored over old emails looking for clues.
他们研究了她据称患有的疾病，仔细研究了旧电子邮件以寻找线索。
Finally they decided to call the elusive Monica who no one had ever spoken to.
最后，他们决定给难以捉摸的莫妮卡打电话，因为从未有人和她说过话。
It turned out that there was in fact a real Monica who went to school with Stephanie, and after some spade work, they found her real last name.
事实证明，确实有一个真正的莫妮卡和斯蒂芬妮一起上学，经过一番挖掘，他们找到了她的真实姓氏。
We called information, and there was that number.
我们打电话询问，果然有那个号码。
She existed, she was there, we immediately were like, oh [BLEEP].
她存在，她就在那里，我们立刻就想，哦[BLEEP]。
This was the moment of crisis where we were running around the apartment, freaking out, thinking we are terrible people.
这是危机时刻，我们在公寓里跑来跑去，惊慌失措，认为我们是可怕的人。
Because if we call this number, and this girl's like yes, Stephanie's in the hospital, but she's much better, then we were terrible, cynical people for-- like, it was everything that is wrong with the world and wrong with us.
因为如果我们拨打这个电话，这个女孩会说是的，斯蒂芬妮在医院，但她好多了，那么我们就是可怕的、愤世嫉俗的人，因为这就是世界和我们的一切错误。
How could we ever think this.
我们怎么可能想到这个。
How could we spend so much time on it, how could we be such a horrible person.
我们怎么能花这么多时间在上面，我们怎么能成为一个如此可怕的人。
So I called the number, and Monica answered.
于是我拨通了这个号码，莫妮卡接听了。
And I was so nervous.
我很紧张。
I remember it was in my dingy little kitchen with the plastic countertop, and I was so nervous that I was shaking the plastic countertop, and things were falling all over.
我记得那是在我肮脏的小厨房里，有塑料台面，我太紧张了，我摇晃着塑料台面，东西都掉下来了。
And Monica was like, I've heard about you, but there's all this loud noise.
莫妮卡说，我听说过你，但噪音很大。
So nervous.
好紧张。
I said, how's Stephanie?
我说，斯蒂芬妮怎么样？
And she said, she's doing better.
她说，她做得更好了。
And I was like, OK, thank you.
我当时想，好吧，谢谢。
And I hung up the phone because I didn't want-- I couldn't deal with it.
我挂了电话，因为我不想——我无法处理这件事。
But immediately Michelle, Sean, and I were like, she's doing better, she really is sick.
但米歇尔、肖恩和我立刻就想，她好多了，她真的病了。
But then we thought, but wait a minute, maybe not.
但后来我们想，但等一下，也许不是。
So they were like, you have to call back.
所以他们说，你必须回电。
And I'm like, I'm not going to call back.
我想，我不会再打电话了。
We just found out we're horrible people, she really is ill, blah, blah, blah.
我们刚刚发现我们是可怕的人，她真的病了，等等，等等。
So they were like, but she didn't sound concerned, she didn't sound worried, call back.
所以他们就像，但她听起来并不担心，她听起来并不担心，回电话。
So we waited 10 minutes then I called back and I was like hi, I'm sorry Monica, it's Josh again.
所以我们等了 10 分钟，然后我回电话，我说嗨，对不起，莫妮卡，又是乔希。
Look, when's the last time you saw Stephanie?
听着，你最后一次见到斯蒂芬妮是什么时候？
She said, I saw her in class this morning.
她说，我今天早上在课堂上看到她了。
And that was it.
就是这样。
They contacted Stephanie, let her know that they had talked to the real Monica.
他们联系了斯蒂芬妮，让她知道他们已经和真正的莫妮卡谈过了。
They knew there was no coma.
他们知道没有昏迷。
After some hedging, Stephanie finally admitted she wasn't dying.
经过一番对冲后，斯蒂芬妮终于承认她并没有死。
The next week, Catherine used her plane ticket and went to talk to Stephanie in person.
接下来的一周，凯瑟琳用她的机票亲自去和斯蒂芬妮谈话。
I had a list compiled of questions from our friends on why she did this, how sick was she, and she basically admitted that she did this as a cry for attention of sorts and it went overboard.
我收集了朋友们提出的问题清单，询问她为什么这样做，她病得有多严重，她基本上承认，她这样做是为了引起某种关注，但做得太过分了。
And then once she started telling us all of these lies about what was going on she didn't have any way to back out of it.
然后，一旦她开始告诉我们所有关于正在发生的事情的谎言，她就没有任何办法可以退出。
Then she kept going and she didn't feel like she could stop at any point during this.
然后她继续前行，她觉得自己在这期间任何时候都不能停下来。
Stephanie declined a request to be interviewed for this radio story.
斯蒂芬妮拒绝接受本广播报道的采访请求。
Jen remembers that before everybody knew the truth about Stephanie, it was a regular thing to get panicky calls from her between midnight and 2:00 AM.
Jen 记得，在每个人都知道有关 Stephanie 的真相之前，午夜到凌晨 2:00 之间接到她打来的恐慌电话是很常见的事情。
She would call me crying in the middle of the night that she was just ready to kill herself, couldn't deal with stuff.
她会在半夜打电话给我哭泣，说她正准备自杀，无法处理这些事情。
And I honestly think that when she called me and said these things, that it was genuine.
老实说，我认为当她打电话给我并说这些话时，那是真诚的。
It was just sort of something that went along with it and we would talk about it when she needed to and needed to be upset and cry.
这只是一种与之相伴的事情，当她需要、需要难过和哭泣时，我们会谈论它。
And there were many conversations about how she just didn't know how to deal with it anymore.
有很多谈话都说她不知道如何处理这件事了。
And as I look back on it and I wonder if some of those I don't know how to deal with it conversations were really about she didn't know how to tell people that she had done this.
当我回顾这件事时，我想知道那些我不知道如何处理的谈话是否真的是关于她不知道如何告诉人们她已经做到了这一点。
I think there was a point for her when she realized that this was going to blow up in her face.
我认为当她意识到这件事会在她脸上爆炸时，她有一个时刻。
A word now about the plot of the musical Rent.
现在谈谈音乐剧《吉屋出租》的情节。
It is, of course, about terminal illness.
当然，这是关于绝症的。
One character dies, another nearly dies.
一个角色死了，另一个角色差点死掉。
Anthony Rapp.
安东尼·拉普.
It's very much about what people do in the face of all that.
这很大程度上取决于人们面对这一切时所做的事情。
And in the case of the show, the group of friends really bands together.
在节目中，这群朋友真的团结在一起。
And so I don't know.
所以我不知道。
I guess maybe on some level Stephanie thought that we would appreciate the plight of somebody who was young and facing something dire like that.
我想也许在某种程度上斯蒂芬妮认为我们会欣赏一个年轻的人面临这样可怕的事情的困境。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass In a way it's like she's casting herself in the show.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 从某种程度上来说，她就像是在表演自己。
Yeah, sure.
是的，当然。
Ira Glass In a way, it's like, what does a fan want from a show.
Ira Glass 在某种程度上，这就像粉丝想从节目中得到什么。
Especially the kind of fan who comes back again and again.
尤其是那种一次又一次回来的粉丝。
It's like somehow they want to get closer to it.
就好像他们想要更接近它一样。
They want to get inside it.
他们想进入其中。
They want to be in it.
他们想参与其中。
I know when I see a show that I love, I want to be in it.
我知道当我看到我喜欢的节目时，我想参与其中。
Seriously.
严重地。
It brought out the best in people.
它激发了人们最好的一面。
It did.
确实如此。
In fact, the script of the show provided a model for everyone on how to act with Stephanie.
事实上，这部剧的剧本给大家提供了如何和斯蒂芬妮一起演戏的范本。
Both for the fans who saw the show dozens of times and the cast who sung out their hearts every night about the importance of sticking by your friends when they're dying.
既是为了那些看了几十遍这部剧的粉丝，也是为了那些每晚都用心歌颂在朋友临死时陪伴在他们身边的重要性的演员们。
Stephanie got her wish.
斯蒂芬妮实现了她的愿望。
Not only did she get sympathy and attention, she got it from the very people who she watched on stage, in Rent, time and again.
她不仅得到了同情和关注，而且还从她在《吉屋出租》舞台上一次又一次看到的人那里得到了同情和关注。
When Catherine went back through her old emails, she noticed how often Stephanie was asking to deliver a message to the cast, or asking about the cast.
当凯瑟琳回顾她的旧电子邮件时，她注意到斯蒂芬妮经常要求向演员们传递消息，或者询问演员们的情况。
Afterwards, it was just pretty sick to read back and see it.
后来读了一遍又看了一遍，实在是太难受了。
That she really didn't care about her-- we thought we were her friends.
她真的不在乎她——我们以为我们是她的朋友。
She really cared more about the cast and their reaction.
她真的更关心演员阵容和他们的反应。
You know the point in the show where Angel dies and then all the other characters come forward and give little tributes.
你知道剧中天使死后所有其他角色都站出来表达敬意的那一刻。
Yeah, a eulogy.
是的，悼词。
Ira Glass Give little eulogies.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 很少致悼词。
Do you think that Stephanie fantasized about all of you-- you do.
你认为斯蒂芬妮对你们所有人都抱有幻想吗——你确实如此。
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
She had emailed us and said, when I go, when they put me in the ground, I want so and so to sing the reprise of "I'll Cover You" from the show at my grave.
她给我们发电子邮件说，当我走的时候，当他们把我埋在地里时，我想在我的坟墓上重唱演出中的“我会掩护你”。
It would be great.
那就太好了。
When I first realized that it was all a lie, I was very angry.
当我第一次意识到这全是谎言时，我非常生气。
Very angry.
很生气。
And that's why I didn't speak to any of them.
这就是为什么我没有和他们中的任何人说话。
Because I had allowed a bunch of strangers to come into my life and I'd opened my heart to them.
因为我允许一群陌生人进入我的生活，并且我向他们敞开了心扉。
After this, did you change your attitude toward the fans in general?
在此之后，你对粉丝的态度有改变吗？
Not really.
并不真地。
I mean, I didn't give out my number anymore.
我的意思是，我不再透露我的电话号码了。
But I still signed autographs.
但我还是签名了。
I still took the time to talk to people, and took pictures, and all that other stuff.
我仍然花时间与人们交谈，拍照，以及所有其他事情。
I didn't open myself anymore like I did.
我不再像以前那样敞开自己。
I felt betrayed.
我感觉自己被背叛了。
And I had to make sure that I didn't allow anybody else to do that.
我必须确保我不允许其他人这样做。
After all this happened, did you want to pray for her, still.
发生这一切之后，你还想为她祈祷吗？
Oh, I did.
哦，我做到了。
I did.
我做到了。
Because I realized that sickness and death were the least of her problems.
因为我意识到疾病和死亡对她来说是最不重要的问题。
Back on 41st Street, Rebecca and Joe, who knew Stephanie, but not all that well, say that Stephanie was just doing a more extreme version of what a lot of people did on the line.
回到 41 街，丽贝卡和乔认识斯蒂芬妮，但不是很了解，他们说斯蒂芬妮只是做了比网上很多人所做的更极端的事情。
It's not surprising to find out that something you think about someone in the line is a lie, or just like, a little off.
如果你发现你对排队中的某个人的看法是谎言，或者只是有点不对劲，这并不奇怪。
Sasha, please, don't get me started.
萨沙，拜托，别让我开始。
For example, this is my good friend Joe Gillis.
例如，这是我的好朋友乔·吉利斯。
But that is not his name.
但这不是他的名字。
And how long did I know you before I knew that was not your name.
我认识你多久了，才知道那不是你的名字。
When did you figure out that was not my name?
你什么时候发现那不是我的名字？
What is your name?
你叫什么名字？
Joe Gillis My name is Joe Falduti.
乔·吉利斯 我的名字是乔·法尔杜蒂。
On the line there was a Bridget, whose real name was Laura, a 15-year-old who everybody thought was 22, and many gay teenagers, who are out only on the neutral ground of 41st Street.
电话里有一个布里奇特，她的真名是劳拉，一个 15 岁的女孩，大家都以为她只有 22 岁，还有许多同性恋青少年，他们只出现在 41 街的中立地带。
I mean, I actively knew it was not real life.
我的意思是，我主动知道这不是现实生活。
And I actually would say, my Rent friends and my real friends.
事实上我想说的是，我的《出租》朋友和我真正的朋友。
But it's really weird how something that was so not real affected real life so much.
但奇怪的是，那些不真实的东西竟然对现实生活产生了如此大的影响。
In a way, a play does too.
在某种程度上，戏剧也是如此。
Rebecca Allen That's what theater wants to do.
丽贝卡·艾伦 这就是剧院想要做的。
They want you to become emotionally involved and care about something, and then leave it and go back to your real life.
他们希望你投入情感并关心某件事，然后离开它并回到你的现实生活。
Which is what Stephanie did on the Rent line.
这就是斯蒂芬妮在 Rent 线上所做的事情。
She got everyone emotionally involved, made them care about something.
她让每个人都投入了情感，让他们关心一些事情。
And then, she went back to her real life.
然后，她又回到了现实生活。
Well, our program was produced today by me and Blue Chevigny.
嗯，今天我们的节目是我和 Blue Chevigny 制作的。
With Alex Blumberg, Susan Burton, and Julie Snyder.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格、苏珊·伯顿和朱莉·斯奈德。
Contributing editors Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, Alix Spiegel, Nancy Updike, and conciliary Sarah Vowell.
特约编辑 Paul Tough、Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin、Alix Spiegel、Nancy Updike 和调解人 Sarah Vowell。
Production help from Todd Bachmann and Eric Halvorsten.
Todd Bachmann 和 Eric Halvorsten 提供制作帮助。
Elizabeth Meister runs our website.
伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister) 负责运营我们的网站。
Musical help today from one of our listeners who sent us an instrumental CD, Rand Coriega.
今天，我们的一位听众给我们提供了音乐帮助，他给我们发送了一张乐器 CD，兰德·科列加 (Rand Coriega)。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] If you'd like to buy a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago.
[致谢] 如果您想购买本节目或我们任何节目的磁带，请致电我们位于芝加哥的 WBEZ。
312-832-3380.
312-832-3380。
Or you know you can order cassettes of our programs or listen online for free at our website, www.thisamericanlife.org.
或者您知道您可以订购我们节目的磁带或在我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org 上免费在线收听。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who is not jealous at all of the fact that the This American Life staff gets to tape interviews all the time.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 负责监督，他对《This American Life》的工作人员一直可以录制采访的事实一点也不嫉妒。
You know, I do it too.
你知道，我也这么做。
I tape people using an alias.
我用化名对人们进行录音。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。