134: We Didn’t - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #134 | July 9, 1999 134: We Didn’t Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 134 集 | 1999 年 7 月 9 日 134：我们没有注意到：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass We think of our lives as a series of events, of things happening one after another.
序言 Ira Glass 我们认为我们的生活是一系列的事件，是一个接一个发生的事情。
But, you know, it's just as accurate to see our lives as a series of things that don't happen to us.
但是，你知道，将我们的生活视为一系列没有发生在我们身上的事情同样准确。
There's this story where all the crucial action takes place within just a short bike ride from the spot where I speak to you from right now, here in Chicago.
在这个故事中，所有关键行动都发生在距离我现在与你们交谈的地点（芝加哥这里）仅一小段骑车路程之内。
The setting, a summer, much like the one we're living through even as I speak, on this humid, midwestern day.
背景是一个夏天，很像我们正在经历的夏天，就在我说话的时候，在这个潮湿的中西部日子。
It's a piece of fiction, a really, really great piece of fiction actually, by a writer named Stuart Dybek.
这是一部小说，实际上是一部非常非常伟大的小说，作者是一位名叫斯图尔特·戴贝克的作家。
We Didn't.
我们没有。
We didn't in the light.
我们没有在灯光下。
We didn't in darkness.
我们没有在黑暗中。
We didn't in the fresh-cut summer grass, or in the mounds of autumn leaves, or in the snow, where moonlight threw down our shadows.
我们没有在夏天新割的草丛中，也没有在秋天的树叶堆里，也没有在月光投下我们影子的雪地里。
We didn't in your room on the canopy bed you slept in, the bed you'd slept in as a child.
我们没有在你房间里你睡过的四柱床上，你小时候睡过的床上。
Or in the backseat of my father's rusted Rambler, which smelled of the smoked chubs and kielbasa that he delivered on weekends for my Uncle Vincent's meat market.
或者坐在我父亲生锈的 Rambler 的后座上，里面弥漫着他周末为文森特叔叔的肉类市场运送的熏鲑鱼和波兰熏肠的味道。
We didn't in your mother's Buick 8, where a rosary twined the rear view mirror like a beaded, black snake with silver, cruciform fangs.
我们在你母亲的别克 8 里没有，后视镜上有一串念珠，就像一条长着银色十字形獠牙的黑色串珠蛇。
After this opening paragraph, Stuart Dybek has 11 pages, thousands of words, describing all of the things that two people can do when they're not doing something.
在这开头一段之后，Stuart Dybek 有 11 页、数千字，描述了两个人在不做某事时可以做的所有事情。
Turns out, that not doing something is every bit as vivid and complicated an experience as doing something.
事实证明，不做某事与做某事一样生动而复杂。
But, my friend, where are the stories of the things that we do when we're not doing the thing itself?
但是，我的朋友，当我们不做事情本身时，我们所做的事情的故事在哪里呢？
Well, we bring those to you today, right here.
好吧，我们今天就在这里为您带来这些。
Part of our ongoing quest to document our actual lives in this country.
这是我们不断追求记录我们在这个国家的实际生活的一部分。
From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题。
Today's show, We Didn't.
今天的节目，我们没有。
Act One, You Come And Go, The Waiters Remain in which we hear a few words from the D.H.
第一幕《你来了又走，服务员留下来》中，我们听到了 D.H. 的几句话。
Lawrence of not doing it.
劳伦斯不这样做。
Act Two, Dance.
第二幕，舞蹈。
A scientific investigation by Mr. Danny Hoch into what exactly is happening between two people, step by step, moment by moment, when they're not falling in love.
丹尼·霍克先生对两个人在没有坠入爱河时一步一步、每时每刻到底发生了什么进行了科学研究。
Act Three, Same Time Next Year.
第三幕，明年同一时间。
A couple nearly gets together, but does not.
一对情侣差点走到一起，但最终没有走到一起。
And then an uncanny coincidence intervenes, as in a fable, as in a dream, as in a movie.
然后，一个不可思议的巧合出现了，就像寓言、梦境、电影一样。
But what does it mean?
但这意味着什么呢？
Act Four, Saying No For 75 Years.
第四幕，75 年说“不”。
The story of what happens when you say no to exactly the wrong person at the wrong time when you're 21 years old and looking at prison.
这个故事讲述了当你 21 岁、即将入狱时，当你在错误的时间对错误的人说“不”时，会发生什么。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Don't say no now.
现在不要说不。
Act One, You Come And Go, The Waiters Remain.
第一幕，你来了又走，服务员留下来。
We begin today's program with this story.
我们以这个故事开始今天的节目。
It's a part story, part philosophical inquiry into the nature of not doing things from Geoff Dyer.
这一部分是故事，一部分是对杰夫·戴尔不做事本质的哲学探究。
For years, I wanted to write a book about D.H.
多年来，我一直想写一本关于 D.H.
Lawrence, a homage to the writer who'd made me want to become a writer.
劳伦斯，向那位让我想成为一名作家的作家致敬。
It was a cherished ambition.
这是一个值得珍视的抱负。
And as part of my preparation for realizing this cherished ambition, I'd avoided reading anything by Lawrence so that at some point in the future, I could go back to him, if not afresh, then at least not rock-stale.
作为我为实现这一抱负做准备的一部分，我避免阅读劳伦斯的任何作品，以便在未来的某个时候，我可以回到他身边，如果不是重新开始，那么至少不会陈旧。
Then after years of avoiding Lawrence, I moved into the phase of what might be termed "pre-preparation."
经过多年回避劳伦斯之后，我进入了所谓的“预准备”阶段。
I visited Eastwood, his birthplace.
我参观了伊斯特伍德，他的出生地。
I read biographies.
我读传记。
I amassed a horde of photographs, which I kept in a once-new document wallet, blue, on which I had written "D.H.L.
我收集了一大堆照片，把它们放在一个全新的蓝色文件钱包里，上面写着“D.H.L.”。
Photos" in determined, black ink.
照片”，用黑色墨水书写。
I even built up an impressive stack of notes with Lawrence vaguely in mind.
我什至模糊地记下了一堆令人印象深刻的劳伦斯笔记。
But these notes, it's obvious to me now, actually served not to prepare for and facilitate the writing of a book about Lawrence, but to defer and postpone doing so.
但现在我很明显，这些笔记实际上并不是为了准备和促进写一本关于劳伦斯的书，而是为了推迟和推迟这样做。
There's nothing unusual about this.
这并没有什么不寻常的。
All over the world, people are taking notes as a way of postponing, putting off, and standing in for.
在世界各地，人们都将记笔记作为推迟、推迟和替代的一种方式。
My case was more extreme.
我的情况更极端。
For not only was taking notes about Lawrence a way of putting off writing a study of and homage to the writer who'd made me want to become a writer, but this study I was putting off writing was itself a way of putting off and postponing another book.
因为做关于劳伦斯的笔记不仅是推迟写一篇对这位让我想成为作家的作家的研究和致敬的方式，而且我推迟写的这项研究本身就是推迟和推迟另一本书的一种方式。
Although I'd made up my mind to write a book about Lawrence, I'd also made up my mind to write a novel.
虽然我决定写一本关于劳伦斯的书，但我也决定写一本小说。
Writing them both at the same time was inconceivable.
同时写下它们是不可想象的。
And so these two equally overwhelming ambitions first wore each other down and then wiped each other out.
因此，这两个同样势不可挡的野心先是互相削弱，然后又互相消灭。
As soon as I thought about working on the novel, I fell to thinking that it would be much more enjoyable to write my study of Lawrence.
当我想到写这部小说时，我就想到写我对劳伦斯的研究会更有趣。
As soon as I started making notes on Lawrence, I realized I was probably sabotaging forever any chance of writing my novel, which, more than any other book I'd written, had to be written immediately before another protracted bout of labor came between me and the idea for what I perceived as a rambling, sub-Bernhardtian rant of a novel.
当我开始做关于劳伦斯的笔记时，我意识到我可能永远破坏了写小说的机会，与我写过的任何其他书相比，我必须在另一场旷日持久的劳动在我和我认为是一部漫无目的的、亚伯恩哈德式的小说的想法之间出现之前立即写完。
It was now or never.
要么现在，要么永远。
So I went from making notes on Lawrence to making notes for my novel, by which I mean I went from not working on my book about Lawrence to not working on the novel.
所以我从为劳伦斯做笔记转向为我的小说做笔记，我的意思是我从不写关于劳伦斯的书变成不写小说。
Because all of this to-ing, and fro-ing, and note taking actually meant that I never did any work on either book.
因为所有这些来来回回和做笔记实际上意味着我从未对这两本书做过任何工作。
All I did was switch between two empty files on my computer, one conveniently called C:\DHL, the other C:\NOVEL, and sent myself pinging back and forth between them until, after an hour and a half of this, I would turn off the computer.
我所做的就是在计算机上的两个空文件之间切换，一个方便地称为 C:\DHL，另一个称为 C:\NOVEL，然后让自己在它们之间来回 ping，直到一个半小时后，我关闭计算机。
Because the worst thing of all, I knew, was to wear myself out in this way.
因为我知道，最糟糕的事情就是以这种方式耗尽自己。
The best thing was to do nothing, to sit calmly.
最好的办法就是什么都不做，静静地坐着。
But there was no calm of course.
但当然并不平静。
Instead, I felt totally desolate because I realized that I was going to write neither my study of D.H.
相反，我感到非常沮丧，因为我意识到我既不会写我对 D.H. 的研究，也不会写我对 D.H. 的研究。
Lawrence nor my novel.
劳伦斯也不是我的小说。
One of the reasons that it was impossible to get started on either the Lawrence book or the novel was because I was so preoccupied with where to live.
无法开始写劳伦斯的书或小说的原因之一是因为我太在意住在哪里了。
I could live anywhere.
我可以住在任何地方。
There were no constraints on me.
我没有受到任何限制。
And because of this, it was impossible to choose.
也正因为如此，才无法选择。
It's easy to make choices when you have things hampering you.
当你遇到阻碍时，很容易做出选择。
A job, kid's schools.
工作，孩子的学校。
But when all you have to go on is your own desires, then life becomes considerably more difficult, not to say intolerable.
但当你所要做的只是你自己的欲望时，那么生活就会变得更加困难，甚至无法忍受。
Even money wasn't an issue since, at this stage, I was living in Paris.
甚至钱都不是问题，因为此时我住在巴黎。
And nowhere could have been more expensive than Paris.
没有什么地方比巴黎更贵了。
The exchange rate got worse by the month, and Paris became more expensive by the month.
汇率逐月恶化，巴黎的物价逐月上涨。
What the money situation in Paris did was to emphasize that although I had settled in Paris, really, I'd just been passing through extremely slowly.
巴黎的金钱状况强调的是，虽然我已经在巴黎定居了，但实际上，我只是过得极其缓慢。
That is all anyone English or American can do in Paris, pass through.
这是任何英国人或美国人在巴黎所能做的一切，通过。
You may spend 10 years passing through, but essentially you're still a sightseer, a tourist.
你可能会花10年的时间路过，但本质上你仍然是一个观光者、一个游客。
You come and go.
你来来去去。
The waiters remain.
服务员还留着。
The longer I stayed, the more powerful it became, this feeling that I was just passing through.
我呆得越久，这种感觉就越强烈，我只是路过。
I'd thought about subscribing to the cable channel, Canal Plus, as a way of making myself feel more settled.
我曾考虑过订阅有线频道 Canal Plus，以此让自己感觉更安定。
But what was the point in subscribing to Canal Plus when, in all probability, I would be moving on in a few months?
但是，当我很可能在几个月后就离开时，订阅 Canal Plus 有什么意义呢？
Obviously, the way to make myself more settled was to acquire some of the trappings of permanence.
显然，让自己更加安定的方法就是获得一些永恒的标志。
But there never seemed any point acquiring the aptly-named trappings of permanence when, in a couple of months, I might be moving on, might well be moving on, would almost certainly be moving on?
但是，当几个月后我可能会继续前进，很可能会继续前进，几乎肯定会继续前进时，获得永久的象征似乎没有任何意义？
Because there was nothing to keep me where I was.
因为没有什么可以让我留在原地。
Had I acquired some of the trappings of permanence, I might have stayed put.
如果我获得了一些永恒的标志，我可能会留在原地。
But I never acquired any of the trappings of permanence because I knew that the moment these trappings had been acquired, I would seized with the desire to leave, to move on.
但我从未获得任何永恒的装饰，因为我知道，一旦获得这些装饰，我就会抓住离开、继续前进的欲望。
And I would then have to free myself from these trappings.
然后我就必须把自己从这些陷阱中解放出来。
And so, lacking any of the trappings of permanence, I was perpetually on the brink of potential departure.
因此，由于缺乏任何永恒的标志，我永远处于潜在离开的边缘。
That was the only way I could remain anywhere, to be constantly on the brink, not of actual, but of potential departure.
这是我能留在任何地方的唯一方法，不断地处于边缘，不是真正的离开，而是潜在的离开。
These were all issues I intended to address in different ways, either in mediated form in my study of Lawrence, or directly in my novel, or vice versa.
这些都是我打算以不同方式解决的问题，要么在我对劳伦斯的研究中以中介形式，要么直接在我的小说中，反之亦然。
But there was an additional practical complication too.
但还有一个额外的实际问题。
Since I was obliged to spend a certain amount of time away from wherever I lived, and since the rent on my Paris apartment was so high, and because of the exchange rate was becoming higher every month, I was frequently obliged to sublet it.
由于我不得不离开我居住的地方一段时间，而且我在巴黎的公寓租金很高，而且汇率每个月都在上涨，我经常不得不转租它。
Strictly speaking, to sub-sublet it since I was subletting it myself.
严格来说，是我自己转租的，所以要转租。
And since if you are subletting your apartment, you do not want to acquire too many valuable or personal items, which might get destroyed, it then comes about that you, yourself, are living in conditions arranged primarily for those subletting from you.
而且，由于如果您转租公寓，您不想购买太多贵重或个人物品，这些物品可能会被毁坏，因此您自己的生活条件主要是为转租者安排的。
Effectively, you are subletting from yourself.
实际上，您是在转租自己。
That's what I was doing, subletting from myself.
这就是我所做的，从自己那里转租。
Strictly speaking, sub-subletting, living in an apartment devoid of anything that might have made it my apartment in the sense of "my home." I'd conspired to arrange for myself the worst of all possible worlds.
严格来说，转租，就是住在一套公寓里，里面没有任何可能成为“我的家”意义上的我的公寓的东西。我密谋为自己安排了所有可能的世界中最糟糕的一个。
And my days were spent in this unbreakable circle of anxiety, always going over the same ground again and again, always with some new variable, but never with any change.
我的日子就在这种牢不可破的焦虑循环中度过，总是一次又一次地重复同样的事情，总是伴随着一些新的变量，但从来没有任何改变。
I had to do something to break this circle.
我必须做点什么来打破这个循环。
And so I decided to sign a contract that would make me the official tenant, as opposed to the illegal subtenant.
因此，我决定签署一份合同，使我成为正式租户，而不是非法转租人。
I wasn't even sure that I wanted to stay in an apartment where I'd actually been extremely unhappy for 90% of my stay, where 90% of my stay had been dominated by anxiety about, A, whether I was going to stay, and B, whether I was going to start a novel or start my study of Lawrence.
我什至不确定我是否想住在一套公寓里，在我入住的 90% 时间里，我实际上都非常不开心，90% 的时间都被焦虑所主导，A，我是否要留下来，B，我是否要开始写小说，还是开始研究劳伦斯。
But as soon as the managing agent said that they were unwilling to let the place to me, a foreigner with no job and no steady income, I became convinced that I had to stay in this apartment where I'd actually been sublimely happy.
但当管理代理人说他们不愿意把这个地方让给我这个没有工作、没有稳定收入的外国人时，我就确信我必须留在这套公寓里，在那里我实际上感到非常幸福。
That there was, in fact, nowhere else on earth where I could hope to be as content.
事实上，地球上没有其他地方能让我如此满足。
Eventually, my rich friend, Herve Landry, "Money Landry," as I like to call him, agreed to stand as guarantor.
最终，我富有的朋友赫夫·兰德里（我喜欢称呼他“金钱兰德里”）同意担任担保人。
The managing agents relented, and I signed the lease that made me the official locataire.
管理代理人态度软化了，我签署了租约，成为了正式的定位人。
I was ecstatic for about five minutes.
我欣喜若狂大约五分钟。
Then I realized I'd taken on an awesome, not to say, crippling responsibility.
然后我意识到我承担了一项令人敬畏的、甚至是严重的责任。
And far from solving the problem of where to live, I'd actually put a lid on it, so that now my uncertainty was boiling away under pressure, threatening to blow me apart.
我非但没有解决住在哪里的问题，反而给它盖上了盖子，所以现在我的不确定性在压力下逐渐消失，威胁着要把我炸垮。
The one thing I could be sure of was that I had to leave this apartment where I'd never known a moment's peace of mind as soon as possible.
我可以确定的一件事是，我必须尽快离开这间我从未有过片刻心灵平静的公寓。
If I stayed here, I saw now, I would fail to write both my novel and my study of Lawrence.
我现在发现，如果我留在这里，我将无法写出我的小说和对劳伦斯的研究。
That much was obvious.
这是显而易见的。
Round and round I went, making no progress, resolving one thing one moment and another the next.
我转了一圈又一圈，毫无进展，一会儿解决了一件事，一会儿又解决了另一件事。
I wrote to the agents and officially renounced the flat, claiming that "professional reasons" had obliged me to return to England.
我写信给经纪人并正式放弃了这套公寓，声称“职业原因”迫使我返回英国。
The agents wrote back, acknowledging my decision to leave the apartment.
特工回信确认我离开公寓的决定。
I wrote back, saying that, "Professional reasons now oblige me to remain in Paris.
我回信说：“现在由于职业原因我不得不留在巴黎。
Could I, therefore, unrenounce my apartment?" Relieved to be free of the trouble of re-letting it, the agents agreed to let me remain in the apartment, which I had just renounced.
那么我可以放弃我的公寓吗？”中介们因为摆脱了重新出租的麻烦而松了口气，同意让我继续住在我刚刚放弃的公寓里。
And so it went on.
事情就这样继续下去。
I wrote again to renounce the apartment definitively.
我再次写信明确放弃这套公寓。
They sent a somewhat curt acknowledgement of my decision.
他们对我的决定发出了简短的确认。
I wrote back, changing my definitive decision to leave to a definitive decision to stay.
我回信，将离开的决定改为留下的决定。
But it was too late.
但为时已晚。
I had to leave.
我不得不离开。
Now that I did have to leave, I was faced with the terrible prospect of having nowhere to live, of having to decide where to live without delay.
现在我确实必须离开，我面临着无处可住的可怕前景，必须立即决定住在哪里。
And only then did I realize how much this apartment meant to me, how it had actually become my home.
直到那时我才意识到这间公寓对我来说有多重要，它如何成为我的家。
Although I believed that I'd hardly any of my things in this apartment, there were actually many of my own things that I now had to find a place for.
虽然我相信我在这间公寓里几乎没有任何东西，但实际上有很多我自己的东西现在我必须找个地方放。
Over the years, I'd actually acquired quite a few of the trappings of permanence.
这些年来，我实际上已经获得了很多永恒的标志。
I even owned a surprising amount of furniture, some of it rather nice.
我什至拥有数量惊人的家具，其中一些相当漂亮。
Where was I going to store it?
我要把它存放在哪里？
And what about me?
那我呢？
Where was I going to store myself?
我要把自己藏在哪里？
Rome was a possibility.
罗马是一种可能性。
Laura, my almost-wife, had a lovely apartment in Rome and was always arguing in favor of our settling there.
劳拉，我的近亲妻子，在罗马有一套漂亮的公寓，她总是主张我们在那里定居。
I fretted and wondered.
我既烦恼又疑惑。
Why was I even prevaricating like this?
我为什么要这样搪塞呢？
I was mad not to go to Rome.
我很生气没有去罗马。
Rome was in Italy, the country where the Lawrences had spent more time than any other.
罗马位于意大利，劳伦斯夫妇在意大利度过的时间比其他任何国家都多。
If I was to stand any chance of making any progress with my study of Lawrence, it was probably the very best place I could be.
如果我有机会在对劳伦斯的研究上取得任何进展，那可能是我能去的最好的地方。
As soon as I arrived, I knew I'd made the right decision.
当我到达时，我知道我做出了正确的决定。
My mind was made up.
我已经下定决心了。
I was ready to begin my study of D.H.
我已经准备好开始 D.H. 的研究了。
Lawrence.
劳伦斯.
The only trouble was the heat.
唯一的麻烦是炎热。
The heat was tremendous.
天气非常炎热。
And nowhere in Rome was hotter than Laura's apartment.
罗马没有比劳拉的公寓更热的地方了。
Even the light was hot.
就连灯光也是炙热的。
We tried to keep the light at bay, but it drilled through the keyhole, squeezed under the door, levered open the smallest of cracks in the shutters.
我们试图挡住光线，但光线却钻进了钥匙孔，挤到了门下，撬开了百叶窗上最小的裂缝。
My mind was made up.
我已经下定决心了。
I was ready to work.
我已经准备好工作了。
But it was too hot to work.
但天气太热，无法工作。
It was so hot, we spent our waking hours dozing and our sleeping hours lying awake, trying to sleep.
天气太热了，我们醒着的时候都在打瞌睡，睡觉的时候都醒着，试图入睡。
We were in a kind of trance.
我们有些恍惚。
The perfect life, the perfect lie, is one which prevents you from doing that which you would ideally have done, painted, say, or written unpublishable poetry, but which, in fact, you've no wish to do.
完美的生活，完美的谎言，会阻止你做那些你理想中会做的事情，画画，说，或写不可发表的诗歌，但事实上，你不想做。
People need to feel that they've been thwarted by circumstances from pursuing the life which, had they led it, they would not have wanted.
人们需要感觉到，他们受到环境的阻碍，无法追求他们本来不会想要的生活。
Whereas the life they really want is precisely a compound of all those thwarting circumstances.
而他们真正想要的生活恰恰是所有这些不利环境的综合体。
It's a very elaborate, extremely simple procedure, arranging this web of self-deceit, contriving to convince yourself that you were prevented from doing what you wanted.
这是一个非常复杂、极其简单的过程，安排这个自欺欺人的网络，努力说服自己，你被阻止做你想做的事。
Most people don't want what they want.
大多数人并不想要他们想要的东西。
People want to be prevented, restricted.
人们希望被阻止、被限制。
The hamster not only loves his cage, he'd be lost without it.
仓鼠不仅喜欢他的笼子，没有它他也会迷路。
That's why children are so convenient.
这就是为什么孩子们如此方便。
You have children because you're struggling to get by as an artist or failing to get on with your career.
你之所以生孩子，是因为你作为一名艺术家正在艰难度日，或者事业进展不顺利。
Then you can persuade yourself that your children prevented you from having this career that never looked like working out.
然后你可以说服自己，你的孩子阻止了你从事这份看起来不像锻炼的职业。
And so it goes on.
就这样继续下去。
Things are always forsaken in the name of an obligation to someone else, never as a failing, a falling short of yourself.
事物总是以对别人的义务的名义被放弃，而不是作为失败或达不到自己。
I've devoted more of my life to thoughts of giving up than anyone else I can think of.
我一生中花在放弃想法上的时间比我能想到的任何人都多。
Nietzsche wrote that the thought of suicide had got him through many a bad night.
尼采写道，自杀的念头让他度过了许多个糟糕的夜晚。
And thinking of giving up is probably the one thing that's kept me going.
想到放弃可能是让我坚持下去的一件事。
I think about it on a daily basis, but always come up against the problem of what to do when I've given up.
我每天都会思考这个问题，但总是会遇到放弃后该怎么办的问题。
Give up one thing, and you're immediately obliged to do something else.
放弃一件事，你就必须立即去做另一件事。
Let's suppose, for example, that I decided to call it a day, to give up, to abandon any attempt not just at earning a living, but having a life.
举例来说，假设我决定放弃，放弃任何谋生和生活的尝试。
But what then?
但那又怎样呢？
What would happen next?
接下来会发生什么？
Within five minutes, I'd be thinking about listening to music and would put a CD on the stereo.
五分钟之内，我就会考虑听音乐，并会在立体声音响上放一张 CD。
Five minutes after that, I'd be up again because I would have grown fed up with that piece of music and would be scanning the shelves and shelves of CDs, searching in vain for a piece of music that I was not heartily sick of, thinking to myself that if I had more CDs, there would surely be one that I would like to listen to.
五分钟后，我会再次起床，因为我已经厌倦了那首音乐，我会浏览架子上的CD，徒劳地寻找一首我并不厌倦的音乐，心想如果我有更多的CD，肯定会有一首我想听的。
And before I knew it, I'd be out of the house and on my way to the megastore, looking for a new CD.
不知不觉中，我就走出家门，前往大型商店寻找新 CD。
Should anyone flatter us by asking what we're looking for, what we are searching for, then we think immediately, almost instinctively in vast terms.
如果有人奉承我们，问我们在寻找什么，我们正在寻找什么，那么我们会立即、几乎本能地思考。
God, fulfillment, love.
上帝，满足，爱。
But our lives are actually made up of lots of tiny searches for things like a CD we are not sick of, an out-of-print edition of Phoenix, a picture of Lawrence that I saw when I was 17, another identical pair of suede shoes to the ones that I'm wearing now.
但我们的生活实际上是由许多微小的搜索组成的，比如一张我们并不厌倦的 CD、一张绝版的《凤凰城》、一张我 17 岁时看到的劳伦斯的照片、另一双与我现在穿的一模一样的麂皮鞋。
Add them together, and these little things make up an epic quest, more than enough for one lifetime.
将它们加在一起，这些小事就构成了一项史诗般的任务，足以满足一生的需要。
Thinking specifically of the search for CDs, let's assume that after deciding to give up, after sitting around listening to CDs and going out to buy a new CD, I found a CD I liked the idea of listening to.
具体考虑一下寻找 CD 的过程，让我们假设在决定放弃之后，在坐着听 CD 并出去购买新 CD 后，我发现了一张我喜欢听的 CD。
Still, at some point, I would not simply grow tired of listening to this new CD, but would actually become heartily sick of the idea of listening to CDs and would think to myself that sitting around listening to CDs is a much more enjoyable activity, a much more enjoyable inactivity if it is a relief from something else, anything else.
尽管如此，在某些时候，我不会只是厌倦了听这张新 CD，而是实际上对听 CD 的想法感到非常厌倦，并且会想，坐下来听 CD 是一种更令人愉快的活动，如果它能从其他事情中解脱出来，那么这是一种更令人愉快的不活动。
And so I would resign myself to picking up my pen and trying once again if for no other reason than to render listening to my CDs a little less dispiriting, to make some progress with my study of D.H.
因此，如果没有其他原因，我会拿起笔再次尝试，只是为了让听我的 CD 不再那么令人沮丧，以便在我对 D.H. 的研究上取得一些进展。
Lawrence.
劳伦斯.
And there you have it.
现在你就得到了它。
One way or another, we all have to write our studies of D.H.
不管怎样，我们都必须写下我们对 D.H. 的研究。
Lawrence even if they will never be published, even if we will never complete them, even if all we are left with after years and years of effort is an unfinished, unfinishable record of how we failed to live up to our own earlier ambitions.
劳伦斯，即使它们永远不会出版，即使我们永远不会完成它们，即使经过多年的努力，我们留下的只是一份未完成的、无法完成的记录，记录着我们如何未能实现自己早先的抱负。
Still, we all have to try to make some progress with our books about D.H.
尽管如此，我们都必须努力在有关 D.H. 的书籍方面取得一些进展。
Lawrence.
劳伦斯.
The world over, from Taos to Taormina, from the places we have visited to countries we will never set foot in, the best we can do is to try to make some progress with our studies of D.H.
世界各地，从陶斯到陶尔米纳，从我们去过的地方到我们永远不会涉足的国家，我们能做的就是努力在D.H.的研究上取得一些进展。
Lawrence.
劳伦斯.
Geoff Dyer reading an excerpt from his amazing, little book Out of Sheer Rage.
杰夫·戴尔正在阅读他的精彩小书《出于纯粹的愤怒》的摘录。
He's also the author of Paris Trance and But Beautiful, a book about jazz.
他还是《Paris Trance》和《But Beautiful》的作者，这是一本关于爵士乐的书。
[MUSIC - "WHEN I WRITE THE BOOK" BY NICK LOWE]
[音乐 - 尼克·洛的《当我写这本书》]
Act Two, Dance.
第二幕，舞蹈。
What do we do when we're not doing something?
当我们不做某事时我们会做什么？
Not writing a book, not doing our jobs, not falling in love.
不写书，不做我们的工作，不谈恋爱。
Sometimes, we just feel self-conscious.
有时，我们只是感到不自在。
Sometimes, we spend a lot of time explaining ourselves.
有时，我们会花很多时间来解释自己。
And sometimes both.
有时两者兼而有之。
We have this from Danny Hoch.
我们从丹尼·霍克那里得到了这个。
As he tells this story on stage, he limps back and forth across the stage on a cane of some kind.
当他在舞台上讲述这个故事时，他拄着某种拐杖在舞台上一瘸一拐地来回走动。
Hi.
你好。
How you doing?
你好吗？
Excuse me.
打扰一下。
So nice to meet you.
很高兴认识你。
So what's your name?
那么你叫什么名字？
My name's Victor.
我叫维克多。
Right?
正确的？
Nice to meet you.
很高兴见到你。
So you come here often?
那么你经常来这里吗？
Ha-ha, I didn't think so, right?
哈哈，我没想到吧？
So what you doing here?
那么你在这里做什么？
Wait, let me guess, let me guess.
等等，让我猜猜，让我猜猜。
You're visiting your grandfather, right?
你正在拜访你的祖父，对吗？
I was close though, right?
不过我已经很接近了，对吧？
Is she sick?
她生病了吗？
Oh, I'm sorry.
哦，对不起。
So you know I'm not here all the time.
所以你知道我并不总是在这里。
Nah, I just have to see the doctors like this week and next week because I have sort of like complications.
不，我只需要像本周和下周那样去看医生，因为我有类似的并发症。
Not really like complications.
不太喜欢并发症。
But like somebody shot me two years ago.
但就像两年前有人开枪打死我一样。
It's complicated.
情况很复杂。
Ha-ha.
哈哈。
Don't worry.
不用担心。
You didn't shoot me, right?
你没有开枪打我吧？
So so you're very pretty.
所以你很漂亮。
Know that?
知道吗？
So you live around here?
那么你住在这附近吗？
You sure?
你确定吗？
I'm saying 'cause I seen this really pretty girl on 149th Street.
我这么说是因为我在 149 街看到了这个非常漂亮的女孩。
I thought maybe that was you.
我想也许那就是你。
But that wasn't you?
但那不是你吗？
You sure?
你确定吗？
I'm just making sure.
我只是确定一下。
Ha ha.
哈哈。
So you want me to talk to the guard to see if they'll let you upstairs quicker?
所以你想让我和警卫谈谈，看看他们是否会让你更快上楼？
Nah, 'cause like they make you wait a really long time just to visit somebody.
不，因为他们会让你为了拜访某人而等待很长时间。
It doesn't matter how sick that they are.
他们病得有多严重并不重要。
And if you want, I can ax them because like, you know, I know him.
如果你愿意，我可以砍掉他们，因为，你知道，我认识他。
'Cause like he's a friend of mine 'cause like I have to come here like every week.
因为他是我的朋友，因为我每周都必须来这里。
So like, you know, we kind of know each other.
就像，你知道，我们有点了解彼此。
I mean, I don't have to come here like every week.
我的意思是，我不必每周都来这里。
But, you know, like every now and then, I come here for like rehabilitation.
但是，你知道，我时不时地来这里是为了康复。
I mean, not rehabilitation like I'm a drug addict or some [BLEEP] like that, but, you know, for like therapy.
我的意思是，不是像我是吸毒者或类似的[BLEEP]那样的康复，而是，你知道，类似的治疗。
I mean, not therapy like I'm crazy or some [BLEEP] like that.
我的意思是，不是像我疯了或类似的[BLEEP]之类的治疗。
But, you know, for like physical therapy.
但是，你知道，就像物理治疗一样。
Oh, nah, I can't really talk about it.
哦，不，我真的不能谈论它。
I can't really discuss it 'cause like I can't get into it.
我无法真正讨论它，因为我无法参与其中。
Nah, I can't really mention it.
不，我真的不能提它。
Because like my mother, she doesn't like me to talk about it 'cause like it's just, you know, it's not cool.
因为就像我母亲一样，她不喜欢我谈论这件事，因为这只是，你知道，这并不酷。
I mean, I mean, not like I do everything my mother tells me to do.
我的意思是，我的意思是，我不像我妈妈告诉我的那样做一切。
I'll do what I want, you know, but.
我会做我想做的事，你知道，但是。
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, ha-ha, ha, nah, nah.
呐，呐，呐，呐，呐，哈哈哈，哈哈哈，呐，呐。
Ha, ha-ha, nah, ha.
哈哈哈哈，呵呵。
Aight, aight, aight, aight, aight, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, aight, aight, aight, aight, nah, aight.
啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊。
Like, it was two years ago, and I was outside my house.
就像，那是两年前，我在我家外面。
And my friends that came by, and they asked me if I want to go for a ride, right?
还有我的朋友过来，他们问我是否想去兜风，对吗？
But like I didn't know the car was stolen.
但就像我不知道车被偷了一样。
I mean, I thought it might have been, but, like, I wasn't sure.
我的意思是，我以为可能是这样，但是，我不确定。
I mean, like, my friend, like, he could have bought it, but he didn't, right?
我的意思是，就像我的朋友一样，他本可以买它，但他没有，对吗？
And like, in one block, the cops stopped us, and they made us get out.
就像在一个街区里，警察拦住了我们，然后让我们出去。
And then, like, I don't know what happened.
然后，就像，我不知道发生了什么。
I guess, like, my friend had moved or something.
我想，比如，我的朋友搬家了之类的。
I mean, you have to move when you get out the car, right?
我的意思是，当你下车时你必须移动，对吗？
But I guess, like, this one cop had panicked 'cause like he thought that my friend had a gun or whatever.
但我想，这个警察很惊慌，因为他认为我的朋友有枪或其他什么东西。
So he, like, just started, like, shooting or whatever.
所以他，就像，刚刚开始，比如，射击或者其他什么。
But like I told you, I can't really talk about.
但就像我告诉过你的，我真的不能谈论。
I can't discuss it 'cause, like, if my mother-- it's not right.
我无法讨论它，因为，就像，如果我的母亲——这是不对的。
I can't be talking, you know, about this situation.
你知道，我不能谈论这种情况。
But I mean, that said, it was an accident.
但我的意思是，这只是一个意外。
No, like, I was really in the New York Post.
不，就像，我真的在《纽约邮报》上。
And they were talking about, like, 12 different reasons why it could have been an accident.
他们谈论了 12 个不同的原因来解释为什么这可能是一场意外。
No, I mean, I was there.
不，我是说，我当时就在那里。
I got shot.
我中枪了。
I'm not saying that.
我不是这么说的。
But I'm saying, like, the more I read about it, the more I think it might have been an accident.
但我想说的是，我读得越多，我就越认为这可能是一次意外。
But man, you got a nice smile.
但是伙计，你的笑容很好看。
Where you live at?
你住在哪里？
Staten Island?
斯塔滕岛？
That's far.
那很远。
But you speak Spanish though, right?
但你会说西班牙语，对吧？
You're Dominican?
你是多米尼加人？
But you're Dominican though, right?
但你是多米尼加人，对吧？
You're Dominican.
你是多米尼加人。
You're Dominican.
你是多米尼加人。
You're Dominican.
你是多米尼加人。
I know you're Dominican.
我知道你是多米尼加人。
Czechoslovakia?
捷克斯洛伐克？
Damn.
该死。
I'm kinda off, right?
我有点走神了，对吧？
For real?
真正的？
Nah, I thought she was Dominican.
不，我以为她是多米尼加人。
So Czechoslovakia.
所以捷克斯洛伐克。
Where's that at?
那是在哪里？
That's, like, near Germany, right?
那是在德国附近，对吧？
I'm close though, right?
我已经很接近了，对吧？
Nah, I know it's like, it's right in that area.
不，我知道它就在那个区域。
Matter of fact, I think it, like, borders it because I look at maps a lot, like, in my room at home.
事实上，我认为它与它接壤，因为我经常看地图，就像在家里的房间里一样。
I just kinda like-- I have maps up in the walls and everything.
我只是有点喜欢——我把地图挂在墙上和所有东西上。
Nah, just, like, to look at different places or whatever.
不，只是，比如，看看不同的地方或其他什么。
So what they eat over there?
那么他们在那里吃什么？
Like, cheese?
比如，奶酪？
Oh, you never been there?
哦，你从来没有去过那里？
Oh, my bad.
哦，我的错。
Oh, your parents?
哦，你的父母？
Oh, my bad.
哦，我的错。
My bad.
我的不好。
So you go to school?
那你去学校吗？
I could tell.
我看得出来。
I'm saying.
我是说。
'Cause you got that look.
因为你有那种表情。
I'm not saying you look stupid, like a nerd or something like that.
我并不是说你看起来很蠢，像个书呆子之类的。
I'm saying, like, you look smart.
我是说，你看起来很聪明。
Like, you definitely got plans for your future or whatever.
就像，你肯定对你的未来或其他什么有计划。
Like, you know, mission or something.
就像，你知道，任务什么的。
What you study?
你学什么？
Oh, that's good.
哦，那很好。
We need more business people, right?
我们需要更多的商人，对吗？
Ah ha ha.
啊哈哈哈。
Like, me, personally, I would like to go into the Air Force if they let me.
就像我个人一样，如果他们允许的话，我想加入空军。
I heard it's still possible, right?
听说还是有可能的，对吧？
Nah, 'cause I would like to protect this country.
不，因为我想保护这个国家。
From like whoever.
来自任何人。
From evil dictators, or like from Saddam Hussein, or Fidel Castro, or whoever.
来自邪恶的独裁者，或者来自萨达姆·侯赛因，或者菲德尔·卡斯特罗，或者任何人。
Nah, 'cause you don't realize.
不，因为你没有意识到。
I'm not saying you.
我不是在说你。
But, like, it's people out there.
但是，就像，外面的人。
They don't realize, like, this is the greatest country in the world.
他们没有意识到，这是世界上最伟大的国家。
And, like, other places, you don't know what could happen.
而且，就像其他地方一样，你不知道会发生什么。
Like, people could just be savages or whatever.
就像，人们可能只是野蛮人或其他什么。
Like, the government, they just, like, shoot you for whatever reason.
就像政府一样，他们只是喜欢以任何理由向你开枪。
But at least here, you know, we have democracy.
但至少在这里，你知道，我们有民主。
Everybody's protected.
每个人都受到保护。
But mostly, I would like to fly, like, a F-15 or a stealth bomber.
但最重要的是，我想飞，比如 F-15 或隐形轰炸机。
Because I would just kind of like to like fly over all the different places in the maps.
因为我只是想飞越地图上的所有不同地方。
Nah, I wouldn't really start nowhere.
不，我不会真的从无处开始。
I would just kind of like fly over, look at it, maybe drop a few bombs, or whatever.
我只是想飞过去看看，也许扔几颗炸弹，或者其他什么。
Nah, I'm kidding.
不，我开玩笑的。
I'm kidding.
我在开玩笑。
I'm kidding.
我在开玩笑。
I mean, not really but.
我的意思是，不是真的但是。
Man, they make you wait a long time.
伙计，他们让你等了很长时间。
See?
看？
I told you.
我告诉你了。
So you sure you don't want me to talk to him?
那么你确定不想让我和他说话吗？
It's not a problem.
这不是问题。
I mean, like, it's messed up.
我的意思是，就像，它一团糟。
Your grandmother got cancer and everything.
你的祖母得了癌症等等。
You know, they shouldn't make you wait down here for, like, four hours.
你知道，他们不应该让你在这里等四个小时。
Are you sure?
你确定吗？
Alright.
好吧。
I'm just making sure.
我只是确定一下。
So would you like to go out with me some time?
那么你愿意和我一起出去玩吗？
I'm saying, you know, I'm not Tom Cruise or nothing, but I'm Puerto Rican.
我是说，你知道，我不是汤姆·克鲁斯，也不是什么都不是，但我是波多黎各人。
You know what they say about Puerto Ricans, right?
你知道他们怎么说波多黎各人，对吧？
You didn't watching The Discovery Channel entertainment special?
您没有观看探索频道娱乐特别节目吗？
Nah, they did a whole report.
不，他们做了一份完整的报告。
They discovered us.
他们发现了我们。
They said that Puerto Ricans are the best dancers in the world.
他们说波多黎各人是世界上最好的舞者。
I mean, like, they didn't say it.
我的意思是，他们没有说过。
But, like, that's what they were saying.
但是，就像，这就是他们所说的。
I bet you like to go to the clubs dancing, right?
我打赌你喜欢去俱乐部跳舞，对吧？
What you dance to?
你跳舞做什么？
Oh, yeah?
哦，是吗？
That's it?
就是这样？
Nah, I go almost every weekend.
不，我几乎每个周末都去。
Like, and my friends take me.
喜欢，我的朋友带我去。
I dance to whatever, merengue, salsa, hip-hop, classical.
我随心跳舞，梅伦格舞、莎莎舞、嘻哈舞、古典舞。
Nah, like, even like grunge.
不，就像，甚至喜欢垃圾摇滚。
I don't even think people can dance to grunge, but I could do it.
我什至不认为人们可以随着垃圾摇滚跳舞，但我可以做到。
You don't think I can dance, right?
你认为我不会跳舞，对吗？
Nah, I been practicing for the last two years.
嗯，这两年我一直在练习。
And plus, they said on The Discovery Channel, it doesn't matter as long as you're Puerto Rican.
另外，他们在探索频道上说，只要你是波多黎各人，这并不重要。
You don't think I can dance, right?
你认为我不会跳舞，对吗？
Girl, you and me could practice right here.
姑娘，你和我可以在这里练习。
There's nobody looking.
没人看啊
There's nobody looking though.
不过没人看。
Oh, all right.
哦，好吧。
No, that's all right.
不，没关系。
I understand, understand.
我明白了，明白了。
Nah, it's all right.
不，没关系。
I understand, understand, understand.
我明白了，明白了，明白了。
Well, tell her I hope she feels better, all right?
好吧，告诉她我希望她感觉好一点，好吗？
All right.
好的。
Um, nice meeting you.
嗯，很高兴认识你。
All right.
好的。
Bye.
再见。
It's the fourth floor.
这是四楼。
Push the button.
按下按钮。
You're very pretty.
你很漂亮。
Man, I thought she was Dominican, word.
伙计，我以为她是多米尼加人，一句话。
Danny Hoch.
丹尼·霍克.
That series from his one-man show, Jails, Hospitals and Hip-Hop.
他的个人表演《监狱、医院和嘻哈》中的该系列。
CDs of his show are available at his website, www.dannyhoch--with an H--.com.
他的节目 CD 可在他的网站 www.dannyhoch-- 以及 H--.com 上找到。
Coming up, making a deal with the prosecutor means 25 years in prison and not making the deal means 75 years.
接下来，与检察官达成协议意味着 25 年监禁，不达成协议意味着 75 年监禁。
Why you might say no to the 25 years.
为什么你可能会对 25 年说不。
And other stories of what we do when we don't do something.
还有其他关于我们不做某事时会做什么的故事。
That's in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, We Didn't.
今天的节目，我们没有。
Stories of what it is that we do when we're not doing all of the things that we think of as our actual lives.
讲述当我们没有做所有我们认为是现实生活的事情时我们所做的事情的故事。
We've arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, Same Time Next Year.
第三幕，明年同一时间。
This is the story of a couple that did not fall in love, did not get together, did not form a future, and some other stuff that'll be clear as this story unfolds.
这是一个关于一对没有坠入爱河、没有走到一起、没有形成未来的情侣的故事，以及其他一些事情随着故事的展开而变得清晰。
It all begins simply enough when Amanda Marks is 13, going on 14, and she goes to Madison Square Garden to buy tickets to the Rolling Stones' Tattoo You tour in the early '80s.
这一切都始于阿曼达·马克斯 (Amanda Marks) 13 岁、即将 14 岁的时候，她去麦迪逊广场花园购买 80 年代初滚石乐队 Tattoo You 巡演的门票。
And she stands in line next to a cute 21-year-old for three hours.
她在一个可爱的21岁女孩旁边排队了三个小时。
And they get to talking and talking some more.
他们开始不断地交谈。
So we go and get our tickets.
所以我们去买票。
And the way they did the system was it was completely randomized.
他们制作系统的方式是完全随机的。
And so he was right behind me in line, or right in front of me, but I ended up getting much better seats than he did.
所以他就在我后面，或者就在我前面，但我最终得到了比他更好的座位。
So basically, we made this deal that we would go to the concert together, and sell his pair, and split the money.
所以基本上，我们达成了一项协议，我们一起去听音乐会，然后卖掉他的那双鞋，然后平分钱。
Do you remember what exactly was attracting you to him?
你还记得他到底是什么吸引你的吗？
I was a teenage girl.
我是一个十几岁的女孩。
And he was this really cute guy paying attention to me.
他是一个非常可爱的人，很关注我。
What wouldn't have been attractive about him?
他还有什么不吸引人的地方呢？
So it's raining.
所以下雨了。
We share a cab uptown.
我们在住宅区共用一辆出租车。
I'm going back to school.
我要回学校了。
I've taken the morning off.
我早上请了假。
I'm trying to catch my English class.
我正在努力赶我的英语课。
And we start kissing in the back of the taxi.
我们开始在出租车后座接吻。
And the rain's hammering down.
雨正倾盆而下。
And it's just-- it's like the movies.
这就像电影一样。
It just couldn't be more romantic.
这真是再浪漫不过了。
I'm feeling so grown up at this point, just thrilled.
此时我感觉自己已经长大了，很兴奋。
So I go back to school, and I'm all excited.
所以我回到学校，我很兴奋。
And I tell my friends.
我告诉我的朋友们。
And one of my friends gives me this look like, "He's how old?
我的一个朋友用这样的眼神看着我：“他多大了？
He does what?
他做什么？
He's an out-of-work actor?
他是失业演员吗？
Like, ew." And I was like, "No, no, he's really great."
就像，呃。”我当时想，“不，不，他真的很棒。”
I love how he's an out-of-work actor is a turnoff even if you're 13.
我喜欢他扮演的失业演员，即使你只有 13 岁，也会让人厌烦。
Even if you're in junior high school, it just doesn't play.
即使你是初中生，也玩不了。
Like, oh, yeah, out-of-work actor.
就像，哦，是的，失业的演员。
Out of here.
离开这里。
Yes.
是的。
Yes, they are.
是的，他们是。
And it was weird because I wouldn't go to his house.
这很奇怪，因为我不会去他家。
I didn't really want him coming to my house.
我真的不想让他来我家。
So we'd meet in public places, have these long, intense, involved conversations.
所以我们会在公共场所见面，进行长时间、激烈、深入的对话。
Instead of making out.
而不是亲热。
Amanda Marks Yeah, basically.
阿曼达·马克斯 是的，基本上。
Yeah.
是的。
Taking the place of, using the energy that could be devoted to--
取而代之的是，利用可以投入的能量——
Well, but I was very serious.
嗯，但我是很认真的。
I was very excited that he liked me for my mind, that we had this connection, that it wasn't about that.
我很兴奋，因为他因为我的思想而喜欢我，我们有这种联系，但事实并非如此。
But finally, the sexual side got a little sticky.
但最后，性方面变得有点棘手。
And my last encounter with him was just uncomfortable.
我最后一次与他的相遇只是让我感到不舒服。
The fact was he was 21.
事实是他21岁了。
I was 14.
那年我14岁。
I wasn't going to go to his house alone.
我本来不想一个人去他家的。
And that was pretty much a deal breaker.
这几乎是一个破坏交易的事情。
OK.
好的。
It's about 12 years later.
大约12年后了。
I'm back in New York City for some family stuff.
我回到纽约是为了处理一些家庭事务。
I'm wandering through Central Park.
我正在中央公园闲逛。
I don't really have anything to do that night.
那天晚上我其实没什么可做的。
And suddenly, I get this flash.
突然，我得到了这个闪光。
I'm like, it's summer.
我想，现在是夏天。
It's about 5 o'clock.
已经是五点左右了。
Shakespeare in the Park.
公园里的莎士比亚。
So I wander over to the Delacorte.
所以我漫步到了Delacorte。
And there's just this endless, endless line.
只有这条无尽的、无尽的线。
It's just huge.
它实在是太大了。
And I get all the way on the end of it.
我终于完成了。
And it's clear to me that I'm not going to get in.
我很清楚我不会进去。
And so I come up with this scheme to cut to the front of the line.
所以我想出了这个方案来插到队伍的前面。
So I go from the end to fourth.
所以我从最后到第四。
And I see this really, really, really cute guy pull the exact same line-cutting ploy that I did.
我看到这个非常非常非常可爱的家伙采用了与我完全相同的插线策略。
The exact same thing.
完全一样的事情。
And he's really cute.
而且他真的很可爱。
And so I catch his eye.
于是我吸引了他的目光。
And I walk over, and I say, "You know, I did the exact same thing." And he goes, "Yeah, I don't know why anybody waits in line.
我走过去说：“你知道，我也做了同样的事情。”他说：“是的，我不知道为什么有人排队等候。
I always do this.
我总是这样做。
It's great."
太棒了。”
So we start chatting.
所以我们开始聊天。
He's got a blanket.
他有一条毯子。
I've got some fruit.
我有一些水果。
And we're chatting and eating away, perfectly comfortable conversation.
我们一边聊天一边吃饭，谈话非常舒服。
He asked me my name.
他问我的名字。
I tell him.
我告诉他。
He tells me his name.
他告诉我他的名字。
And then he tells me his last name.
然后他告诉我他的姓氏。
And I recognize it.
我认得它。
I can't not recognize it.
我不可能不认识它。
Because his name was always really uncomfortable for me.
因为他的名字总是让我感到不舒服。
His name is a synonym for the male anatomy.
他的名字是男性解剖学的同义词。
But he pronounces it differently.
但他的发音不同。
And it just always made me really uncomfortable when I was 14.
当我 14 岁的时候，这总是让我感到非常不舒服。
I pause, and my heart starts pounding.
我停了下来，我的心开始狂跳。
My mouth dries up.
我的口干了。
And I say, "Over 12 years ago, you and I picked each other up in line for Rolling Stones tickets." And he stares at me.
我说：“12 多年前，你和我在排队买滚石乐队门票时互相接过。”他盯着我。
And he totally knows who I am.
他完全知道我是谁。
His jaw drops.
他的下巴都要掉下来了。
He completely remembers.
他完全记得。
He can't believe it.
他不敢相信。
I can't believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
And it's just so romantic.
这真是太浪漫了。
What could be more romantic?
还有什么比这更浪漫的事呢？
We're in Central Park.
我们在中央公园。
We're on a blanket.
我们在毯子上。
We're about to go see Shakespeare in the Park.
我们要去公园看莎士比亚。
It's like it's destiny.
仿佛这就是命运。
Oh my god, and the play?
天啊，那戏呢？
All's Well That Ends Well.
一切都好，结局好。
So it's all symbolic.
所以这都是象征性的。
It's all coming together.
一切都在一起了。
It's all magical.
这一切都很神奇。
And all forming around one thought.
一切都围绕一个想法形成。
Oh, it just could not be more perfect.
哦，简直不能更完美了。
I'm thinking, this is the story you tell the grandchildren.
我在想，这就是你给孙子们讲的故事。
I love romantic comedies.
我喜欢浪漫喜剧。
I write romantic comedies.
我写浪漫喜剧。
It's just like this is what happens in the movies.
这就像电影里发生的事情一样。
I'm so excited.
我太激动了。
And we see the play.
我们看到了这出戏。
And we leave, and we walk back to his place.
然后我们离开，走回他的住处。
And then the sleaze factor of this 21-year-old who dated this 14-year-old starts to rear its head.
然后，这个与这个 14 岁女孩约会的 21 岁女孩的肮脏因素开始浮出水面。
What was this guy doing dating me when I was 14?
当我 14 岁的时候，这个家伙在和我约会做什么？
That's not acceptable.
这是不可接受的。
The tip-offs, there were just so many little things.
提示，有很多小事情。
We go back to his apartment.
我们回到他的公寓。
His apartment was really this mess.
他的公寓实在是太乱了。
Oh, it seemed like he was kind of a pot head.
哦，看来他是个锅头。
He was smoking out the whole time.
他一直在外面抽烟。
He was growing weed on his balcony.
他正在阳台上种杂草。
He was constantly smoking out.
他经常出去抽烟。
Yeah.
是的。
He hadn't really done much with himself.
他并没有为自己做太多事情。
That's interesting because when there's that kind of coincidence of running into somebody again, we think automatically that it should turn out to be romantic.
这很有趣，因为当再次遇到某人的巧合时，我们会自动认为这应该是浪漫的。
But it could be that you just meet some people again, just have exactly the same experience over again.
但也可能你只是再次遇到了一些人，只是再次经历了完全相同的经历。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
In case you didn't learn that lesson once.
以防你一次都没有吸取教训。
So it just got yuckier.
所以它变得更恶心了。
I left eventually.
我最终还是离开了。
And he would call me randomly, drunk, at 11:30 at night, from some bar, like, "What are you doing?"
晚上 11 点 30 分，他会在某个酒吧里喝醉了之后随机给我打电话，比如“你在做什么？”
And so this whole thing stayed in the "We didn't" stage.
所以整件事就停留在“我们没有”的阶段。
You just never went forward out of "We didn't." It was sort of like you were reunited to re-experience the "We didn't."
你只是从来没有走出“我们没有”的困境。有点像你们重聚，重新体验“我们没有”。
Yeah.
是的。
At first, it seemed like there was this big cosmic thing keeping us apart, age.
起初，似乎有一个巨大的宇宙因素让我们分开，那就是年龄。
There's so few things to actually keep couples apart anymore.
真正让情侣分开的事情已经很少了。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
I write romantic comedies, and it's really hard to come up with a reason that people don't just jump into bed in the first 20 minutes.
我写浪漫喜剧，很难想出一个理由让人们在前 20 分钟内不直接跳上床。
Oh, come.
哦，来吧。
Are you serious?
你是认真的？
Amanda Marks Yeah, it's hard.
阿曼达·马克斯 是的，这很难。
Sure.
当然。
When you're doing the whole "It's kismet, and we know that they're meant to be," yeah, sure, that's hard to sustain dramatically.
当你在做整个“这是命运，我们知道它们注定是这样”时，是的，当然，这很难戏剧性地维持。
That's why most romantic comedies are so boring and predictable.
这就是为什么大多数浪漫喜剧都如此无聊和可预测。
Because there's not enough keeping them apart.
因为没有足够的力量将他们分开。
It's like, oh, he's engaged to some other girl who's really stuck up and comes from this rich family.
就好像，哦，他和另一个来自这个富裕家庭的女孩订婚了，她真的很自大。
And we know that he's never going to end up with this stuck-up girl.
我们知道他永远不会和这个自以为是的女孩在一起。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
But they go through the motions of he has to figure it out that she's not right for him.
但他们走过场，他必须弄清楚她不适合他。
And you know I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
That's why most romantic comedies are so middling and why it's really hard to make a good one.
这就是为什么大多数浪漫喜剧都那么平庸，也很难拍出一部好的喜剧。
So we had that.
所以我们就有了。
We had age.
我们有年龄了。
It was pretty dramatic.
这是相当戏剧性的。
It was very real then.
那时这是非常真实的。
I'm surprised at what you're saying about romantic comedies.
我对你所说的浪漫喜剧感到惊讶。
But I guess what I mean when I say it's hard now, compared to the heyday of Hollywood-- when you think of the classic romantic comedies, those were written under the Hays code.
但我猜我说现在很难，与好莱坞的鼎盛时期相比，我的意思是——当你想到经典的浪漫喜剧时，那些都是在海斯准则下写的。
And you could not have two people going to bed together unless they were married.
除非他们结婚了，否则你不能让两个人一起上床。
And so it was an obstacle in that very direct, obvious way.
所以这是一个非常直接、明显的障碍。
And you needed parent approval, and you needed to be of the same class, and all of that.
你需要父母的批准，你需要属于同一类，等等。
And now, with sexual mores so changed, that's really the thing.
现在，随着性观念发生了如此大的变化，这确实是问题所在。
It's like, well, what's stopping these two people from going to bed?
就像，好吧，是什么阻止这两个人上床睡觉？
But what you're saying somehow is that we, as a people, spend less time in the realm of "We didn't" than we used to two generations ago.
但不知何故，你所说的是，作为一个民族，我们花在“我们没有”的领域上的时间比两代人前要少。
Yeah, I think now we spend time in "I wish we didn't," "I wish we hadn't."
是的，我想现在我们花时间在“我希望我们没有”，“我希望我们没有”。
In other words, people actually get involved, but then regret it.
换句话说，人们实际上参与了，但随后却后悔了。
Yeah, sure.
是的，当然。
That's really the story now.
这就是现在的故事。
Amanda Marks, a screenwriter in Los Angeles.
阿曼达·马克斯 (Amanda Marks) 是洛杉矶的一名编剧。
[MUSIC - "'TIL THE NEXT GOODBYE" BY THE ROLLING STONES]
[音乐 - 滚石乐队的《直到下一次再见》]
Act Four, Saying No For 75 Years.
第四幕，75 年说“不”。
For most of us, the stakes of not doing something on any given day are so low that as soon as the moment of decision passes, we never think of it again.
对于我们大多数人来说，在任何一天不做某事的风险是如此之低，以至于一旦做出决定的时刻过去，我们就再也不会想起它。
It doesn't even linger as a memory.
它甚至不会成为记忆。
But sometimes, the stakes are so staggeringly high that we spend the rest of our lives in the shadow of that one decision, of one no. No, said at exactly the wrong moment to exactly the wrong person.
但有时，赌注是如此之高，以至于我们的余生都生活在那个决定的阴影下，一个不。不，是在错误的时间对错误的人说的。
Steve Bogira is a journalist who stumbled onto a story exactly like that about a guy named Vincent Bogan.
史蒂夫·博吉拉（Steve Bogira）是一名记者，他偶然发现了一个与文森特·博根（Vincent Bogan）的故事完全相同的故事。
I met Vincent 18 years ago when he was 15, when he was about to become a freshman at Bogan High School.
18 年前，我认识了文森特，当时他 15 岁，当时他即将成为博根高中的新生。
Bogan is just a coincidence.
博根只是一个巧合。
It's the same as his name.
这和他的名字一样。
Bogan is a high school on Chicago's Southwest side.
博根是芝加哥西南区的一所高中。
At the time, it was all white, and Vincent was going to be one of the first black kids to go to this school.
当时，学校里都是白人，文森特将成为第一批进入这所学校的黑人孩子之一。
And I wanted to write a story for the Chicago Reader about what it'd be like for a black kid to come to that high school.
我想为《芝加哥读者》写一篇故事，讲述一个黑人孩子来到那所高中会是什么样子。
So I rode the bus with him one September day in 1981 and followed him during his first day at Bogan.
因此，1981 年 9 月的一天，我和他一起乘坐公共汽车，并在他来到博根的第一天跟随他。
The previous spring, he had been voted "Most Dedicated Student" in his eighth grade class, won $50 for that.
去年春天，他在八年级班级中被评为“最敬业的学生”，并因此赢得了 50 美元。
He wanted to be an architect.
他想成为一名建筑师。
And he was just a nice kid.
他只是一个好孩子。
He had a father who worked as a welder.
他的父亲是一名焊工。
His mother had been killed in a car accident a couple of years before.
他的母亲几年前在一场车祸中丧生。
And he was the kind of kid who cuts the grass and sprinkles the lawn, wasn't the greatest student, but he did graduate.
他是那种割草、洒草坪的孩子，不是最优秀的学生，但他确实毕业了。
So when did you hear of him next?
那么你下次是什么时候听说他的呢？
How many years passed?
多少年过去了？
I think it was in 1989.
我想那是在1989年。
I saw a headline in the Tribune that caught my eye.
我在论坛报上看到一个引起我注意的标题。
It said something like, "An armed robber gets 75 years," which is a real long time for someone to do for armed robbery.
上面写着“持械抢劫犯被判处 75 年徒刑”，这对于持械抢劫的人来说是一个非常长的刑期。
And I read this story, and it said Vincent Bogan had been charged with 17 armed robberies committed in a six-week period in 1988.
我读过这篇报道，文森特·博根 (Vincent Bogan) 被指控在 1988 年六周内实施了 17 起武装抢劫。
So I thought this is the Vincent who I wrote about.
所以我想这就是我写的文森特。
And I decided to find out what had happened.
我决定找出到底发生了什么事。
What had happened, he found out, is that while Vincent was in high school, his father was laid off from his job as a welder and started dealing cocaine out of the house.
他发现，发生的事情是，当文森特上高中时，他的父亲被解雇了焊工的工作，并开始在家里贩卖可卡因。
He taught Vincent the family business.
他教文森特家族生意。
Not long after that, he died.
不久之后，他就去世了。
Vincent became addicted to cocaine, stole to support his habit, and was caught.
文森特对可卡因上瘾，为了维持自己的习惯而偷窃，结果被捕。
He was offered a deal by the state's attorney, a typical kind of deal for American courts today.
州检察官向他提出了一项协议，这是当今美国法院的典型协议。
If he would admit that he was guilty on all 17 counts of armed robbery, which would make a full trial unnecessary, there would be no trial, then he would get a 25-year sentence.
如果他承认自己对所有17项武装抢劫罪名有罪，那么就没有必要进行全面审判，就不会进行审判，那么他将被判处25年徒刑。
This is called-- as anybody who watches cop shows on TV knows-- copping a plea, taking a plea bargain.
这就是所谓的——任何看过电视警察节目的人都知道——接受认罪，接受认罪交易。
And this is where Vincent said, no, said, no in a way that changed his life forever, said, no against the advice of everybody in his life.
这就是文森特说的，不，说不，以永远改变他生活的方式，说不，不顾他生命中每个人的建议。
He wanted to go to trial.
他想去受审。
His lawyer said it was a mistake.
他的律师表示这是一个错误。
He tried to convince Vincent to take the deal, said, "Vincent, you're going to get hammered if you go to trial.
他试图说服文森特接受这笔交易，他说：“文森特，如果你去受审，你就会受到打击。
You'll get much more than 25 years."
你的寿命将远远超过25年。”
He went to trial on 1 of the 17 counts of armed robbery.
他因 17 项武装抢劫罪名中的一项而接受审判。
The judge gave him the maximum sentence, 30 years.
法官判处他最高刑期30年。
He still had 16 counts left, 16 crimes.
他还有 16 项罪名，16 项罪行。
At some point, it may have been just before sentencing, the state came to Vincent again and said, "Plead guilty to all the rest of these, and we'll give you just a total of 30." Vincent, again, said, "No, I want to go to trial." So he went to trial a second time, got found guilty again by a jury, and got sentenced to another 30.
在某个时候，可能就在宣判之前，州政府再次找到文森特并说：“对其余所有这些都认罪，我们总共只给你 30 条。”文森特再次说道：“不，我想去受审。”于是他第二次接受审判，再次被陪审团判定有罪，并又被判入狱30年。
After that, he went to trial again, got 15 years, bringing his total up to 75.
此后，他再次受审，被判15年有期徒刑，使他的总刑期达到75年。
Then he went to trial again, got 60 years.
然后他再次受审，被判60年有期徒刑。
Though in one of those weird legal things that make very little sense to anybody outside of the court system, he serves the 60 at the same time as he serves the 75.
尽管这是一件对法院系统之外的任何人来说都毫无意义的奇怪法律事情之一，但他在为 60 岁的人服务的同时，也为 75 岁的人服务。
Basically, the idea is that if he overturns one of his convictions, someday, on appeal, he still has to serve tons of time.
基本上，这个想法是，如果他有一天在上诉中推翻了他的一项信念，他仍然需要服刑大量的时间。
This was an unusually long sentence for armed robbery.
对于武装抢劫罪来说，这是一个异常长的刑期。
So much time that the state simply dropped the other 13 counts against him.
时间太长，以至于州政府干脆放弃了对他的其他 13 项指控。
Why bother?
何苦呢？
He'd be away 'til he was an old man.
他会离开，直到他老了。
The day the judge gave Vincent the second 30 years, he also sentenced another defendant in his courtroom for murdering two people to 60 years.
法官判处文森特第二个30年有期徒刑的那天，他还在法庭上以谋杀两人的罪名判处另一名被告60年有期徒刑。
This defendant had strangled one person with a telephone cord and stabbed the other person 21 times.
该被告用电话线勒死一人，并向另一人刺21刀。
He got the same 60 years that Vincent had at that point.
他的寿命与文森特当时的寿命相同 60 年。
The difference was the murderer pled guilty.
不同的是凶手认罪了。
Vincent, at the time, had found Jesus in the jail.
当时，文森特在监狱里找到了耶稣。
And I think he felt that Jesus might help him win some of his cases.
我认为他觉得耶稣可能会帮助他赢得一些案子。
And I also feel he didn't like the idea of pleading guilty to some crimes which we hadn't done.
我还觉得他不喜欢对一些我们没有犯下的罪行认罪。
Even though he had done many of those crimes, he hadn't done them all.
尽管他犯下了许多罪行，但他并没有犯下全部罪行。
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass Now you've written about this for the Alicia Patterson Reporter.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 现在您已经为《艾丽西亚·帕特森记者》撰写了有关此事的文章。
And just a few weeks ago, you went down to Joliet where Vincent is in a maximum security prison.
就在几周前，你去了乔利埃特，文森特被关押在一所戒备森严的监狱里。
And you talked to him about why he said no to the plea bargains, why he said no to the deal for 25 years.
你和他谈过为什么他拒绝认罪交易，为什么他 25 年来一直拒绝这项交易。
At the time, I was 21.
当时，我21岁。
Steve Bogira So what was going through your head?
Steve Bogira 那么你脑子里在想什么？
It was so many things going through my head, I can't really-- as far as the sentence was concerned, I was looking at 25 years.
我脑子里闪过太多事情，我真的不能——就判决而言，我想到的是 25 年。
Half of that time would be 12 and 1/2 years.
其中一半时间就是 12 又 1/2 年。
With day for day good time, 25 means you serve 12 and 1/2.
对于日复一日的美好时光，25 意味着您服务 12 又 1/2。
Exactly.
确切地。
And I couldn't really see 12 and 1/2 years of my life going by without me putting up a fight.
我真的无法想象我生命中的 12 又 1/2 年会不经历斗争。
I'm fighting for my life, what I felt at that particular time.
我正在为我的生命而战，为我在那个特定时刻的感受而战。
I was 21 years old.
那年我21岁。
I couldn't remember back 12 and 1/2 years.
我不记得12又1/2年前的事了。
I believe that the Lord had touched my heart and was directing me not to take this cop-out.
我相信主已经触动了我的心，并指示我不要逃避。
And that was a strong conviction on my part.
这对我来说是一个坚定的信念。
My family didn't understand.
我的家人不理解。
My attorney didn't understand.
我的律师不明白。
But I felt like that's the way I was being led at that time.
但我觉得这就是我当时被引导的方式。
And I still feel like that was the way that the Lord had led me to go as far as not copping out to these crimes.
我仍然觉得这就是主带领我走得尽可能远的方式，而不是逃避这些罪行。
Why did you think that?
你为什么这么想？
You were guilty of some of these armed robberies, right?
您犯有其中一些武装抢劫罪，对吗？
Right.
正确的。
Steve Bogira So why do you think that Jesus wanted you to go to trial?
史蒂夫·博吉拉 那么你认为耶稣为什么要你接受审判呢？
Well, I don't think it was so much that he wanted me to go to trial.
嗯，我认为他并没有那么想让我去受审。
But I felt secure in whatever I did.
但无论我做什么，我都感到安全。
Whatever decision I made, I felt that the Lord was going to be with me.
无论我做出什么决定，我都感到主会与我同在。
And I don't believe that the Lord has put me here to leave me here.
我不相信主把我放在这里是为了让我留在这里。
But I know this.
但我知道这一点。
That I learned a serious lesson, a serious life lesson about being in a maximum-security penitentiary.
我学到了一个严肃的教训，一个关于在最高安全级别的监狱里度过的严肃的人生教训。
If I woulda took the cop-out, I woulda went straight to a medium-security penitentiary.
如果我想逃避，我会直接去中等安全监狱。
I never woulda seen behind the walls of these type of penitentiaries.
我永远不会看到这种监狱的墙后面。
And I believe that, in my particular case, I needed that.
我相信，就我的具体情况而言，我需要它。
I needed to know the crimes I did can call for this particular punishment and for a long period of time.
我需要知道我犯下的罪行可能会受到这种特殊的惩罚，并且会持续很长一段时间。
Now in the courts here in Illinois, there's something called "the tax?"
现在在伊利诺伊州的法庭上，有一个叫做“税收”的东西？
Well, it's not an official term, but it's one that everyone down at 26th Street in Cook County at the courthouse recognizes.
嗯，这不是一个官方术语，但库克县第 26 街法院的每个人都认可这个术语。
And what it is is a penalty for asserting your right to trial.
这是对你维护受审权利的惩罚。
In other words, if you're offered a certain number of years, if you decide to take a trial and you get found guilty, most likely, you're going to get more time than you would have if you had pled.
换句话说，如果你被提供了一定的年限，如果你决定接受审判并且被判有罪，那么你很可能会比你认罪时获得更多的时间。
Seems to make sense on the surface at least.
至少表面上似乎是有道理的。
Because if you didn't have that kind of an incentive, everybody would be going to trial, taking a chance on getting found innocent.
因为如果没有这种激励，每个人都会接受审判，冒着被判无罪的机会。
And with a huge number of cases to deal with, the courts could not possibly deal with that.
而且案件数量巨大，法院根本不可能处理。
They couldn't deal with everybody going to trial.
他们无法应对每个接受审判的人。
They need people to take the plea.
他们需要人们接受请求。
Well, last year in Cook County, just under 40,000 cases were disposed of by jury, by bench, and by plea.
去年，库克县通过陪审团、法官和辩诉方式处理了不到 40,000 起案件。
About 33,000 of those were disposed of by plea.
其中约 33,000 件已通过认罪处理。
I might add that the tax is usually greater if you insist on a jury trial instead of just a bench trial.
我想补充一点，如果你坚持陪审团审判而不是法官审判，税收通常会更高。
In a bench trial, the judge decides whether you're guilty or innocent.
在法庭审判中，法官决定您有罪还是无罪。
A jury trial takes a lot longer because you have to pick a jury, you have to instruct the jury, and you have to make sure that certain evidence does not appear before the jury.
陪审团审判需要更长的时间，因为你必须选择陪审团，你必须指导陪审团，并且你必须确保某些证据不会出现在陪审团面前。
So jury trials-- they're a nuisance for the system.
所以陪审团审判——它们对系统来说是一个麻烦。
They take up a lot of time.
他们占用了很多时间。
So if you go to trial and you insist on a jury trial, you're likely to get a little bit more time if you're convicted than if you just had a bench trial.
因此，如果您接受审判并坚持由陪审团审判，那么如果您被定罪，您可能会比仅进行法官审判获得更多的时间。
So last year, as I said, 33,000 pleas.
正如我所说，去年有 33,000 份请求。
Of the other 7,000 cases, there were about 6,300 bench trials.
在其他 7,000 个案例中，约有 6,300 个进行了基准试验。
And I believe there were just under 400 jury trials, less than 1% of the cases that were disposed of in Cook County were disposed of by a jury.
我相信陪审团审判不到 400 起，库克县处理的案件中只有不到 1% 是由陪审团处理的。
Well, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a bad thing.
嗯，我不会说这一定是一件坏事。
It depends on your philosophy.
这取决于你的哲学。
If you feel that the criminal justice system is a healthy way to deal with behavior that we don't condone, you'd probably be in favor of a tax.
如果您认为刑事司法系统是处理我们不宽恕的行为的健康方式，您可能会赞成征税。
Because it allows the criminal justice system to work and to work even if it has rising caseloads.
因为它使刑事司法系统能够正常运转，即使案件数量不断增加。
If you feel that society maybe should look for other ways to dissuade people from participating in activity that we don't condone, then you probably think that we should do the radical thing and abide by the Constitution, especially the Sixth Amendment, which guarantees everybody a right to a jury trial.
如果你觉得社会也许应该寻找其他方法来劝阻人们参与我们不容忍的活动，那么你可能认为我们应该做一些激进的事情并遵守宪法，特别是第六修正案，它保证每个人都有接受陪审团审判的权利。
And that's a right that's not supposed to be fettered by a tax or a punishment if you assert that right.
如果你主张这项权利，那么这项权利就不应受到税收或惩罚的束缚。
And in Vincent's case, did he ask for a jury trial?
在文森特的案件中，他是否要求陪审团审判？
Or did he get a bench trial?
还是他接受了替补审判？
Jury trials.
陪审团审判。
Ira Glass So all of these were jury trials?
Ira Glass 那么所有这些都是陪审团审判？
Right.
正确的。
He was a particular nuisance for the courts.
他对法庭来说尤其令人讨厌。
His cases were taking up an awful lot of time.
他的案件占用了很多时间。
Well, it's not that many days.
还好，没那么多天了。
It's probably a day to pick the jury and a day or two of trial.
可能需要一天挑选陪审团和一两天的审判。
But the judge in that courtroom could have disposed of many cases in the time that he had to pick juries for Vincent's cases.
但法庭上的法官在为文森特的案件挑选陪审团时，本可以处理掉许多案件。
In that courtroom afterward, some of the regular lawyers, the lawyers assigned to the courtroom, talked about some of the prosecutors would talk to the public defenders and warn them that "You don't want your client to get Boganized, do you?"
随后在法庭上，一些常驻律师，即分配到法庭的律师谈到，一些检察官会与公设辩护人交谈，并警告他们“你不希望你的委托人被博根化，是吗？”
"Boganized," after Vince Bogan.
“Boganized”，以文斯·博根 (Vince Bogan) 命名。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Vincent was a poster boy for what happens if you assert your right to trial.
文森特是一个典型的例子，如果你主张自己的审判权，会发生什么。
When I really look back at, OK, you offered me 25 years.
当我真正回想起来，好吧，你给了我25年。
Vince, you shoulda took it.
文斯，你应该接受它。
Then I say, OK, if I woulda took it, I don't know.
然后我说，好吧，如果我愿意接受，我不知道。
God may have had even a better blessing in store for me to take that 25 years.
也许上帝已经为我准备了更好的祝福，让我度过了这 25 年。
I may have went down to a medium-security penitentiary.
我可能已经被关进了中等安全级别的监狱。
I may have been able to continue to do the things I'm doing here in this penitentiary.
我也许能够继续做我在监狱里正在做的事情。
My faith may have been even stronger in the Lord from that point.
从那时起，我对主的信心可能更加坚定了。
But I don't know.
但我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
But I know that God know.
但我知道上帝知道。
And I know that all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and called according to his purpose.
我知道万事互相效力，叫那些爱主、按他旨意呼召的人得益处。
And that's how I was looking at this situation.
这就是我对这种情况的看法。
When Vincent talks about how perhaps God had him refuse the plea, it's like he's throwing himself on to a kind of a pure fatalism.
当文森特谈到也许上帝让他拒绝这一请求时，他就好像陷入了一种纯粹的宿命论。
Whatever will happen, will happen.
无论发生什么，都会发生。
Well, I think that's right.
嗯，我认为这是对的。
And I think the same kind of fatalism was evident in the run Vincent had been on, the armed robberies he was pulling.
我认为同样的宿命论在文森特的逃跑和武装抢劫中也很明显。
I'm convinced that he wanted to get caught.
我确信他想被抓住。
He did get caught the last day after pulling three armed robberies in a row several blocks apart in the afternoon.
最后一天，他在下午相距几个街区的地方连续实施了三起持械抢劫，最终被抓获。
He wasn't wearing a mask or anything.
他没有戴口罩什么的。
It was not intelligent work as an armed robber if that's what he was trying to do.
如果他想这么做的话，作为一名武装抢劫犯，这并不是明智的工作。
But I think that there was an element in Vincent that wanted to be caught.
但我认为文森特身上有一种想要被抓住的元素。
Without doing much psychologizing, I'm certain that the deaths of his mom and dad played a role in that.
无需进行太多心理分析，我就确信他父母的去世在其中发挥了作用。
Exactly how it led him to be doing what he was doing, I'm not certain.
我不确定这到底是如何导致他做他正在做的事情的。
In all of your talks with him, did he ever say that he felt like he wanted to be caught?
在你和他的所有谈话中，他有没有说过他感觉自己想被抓住？
Did he ever admit to that?
他承认过吗？
No, I've asked him about that.
不，我已经问过他了。
He said it was a relief when he was caught.
他说，当他被抓住时，他松了一口气。
I thank God for the prosecutors and judges.
我为检察官和法官感谢上帝。
Romans 13 says, "Submit yourself to those who have authority over you." I believe that.
罗马书十三章说：“要顺服那些有权柄的。”我相信这一点。
If I'm wrong, that wrong should be corrected.
如果我错了，这个错误应该被纠正。
Just to get back to the way that he explains to himself what happened, if you think about somebody who made one decision at 21, who said, no, at 21 once essentially-- or in this case, four times in rapid succession-- and then has to live with that for the next 39 years, now that he's had a decade to think about it, it seems like there are only two ways that a person could think about it.
回到他向自己解释发生的事情的方式，如果你想想一个人在 21 岁时做出了一个决定，他基本上在 21 岁时说了一次“不，在这种情况下，连续四次说”，然后在接下来的 39 年里必须忍受这个决定，既然他有十年的时间来思考这个问题，那么一个人似乎只有两种思考方式。
One is, I made a terrible mistake and just be racked by that.
一是，我犯了一个可怕的错误，并为此感到痛苦。
Or the other, there was a reason, there must be a reason.
或者说，有一个原因，一定有一个原因。
In this case, God has a reason, and I will just accept that and move forward.
在这种情况下，上帝有一个理由，我就接受并继续前进。
And in a way, it's so much healthier or more life preserving for him to believe that there must be a reason that this worked out this way.
在某种程度上，对他来说，相信这样的结果一定是有原因的，这对他来说更健康，更能保命。
Yeah, I think that Vincent is a remarkably healthy person now.
是的，我认为文森特现在是一个非常健康的人。
And by healthy, I mean he's really adapted to his destiny.
我所说的健康，是指他真的适应了自己的命运。
That doesn't mean that this is a success story by any means.
无论如何，这并不意味着这是一个成功的故事。
I think it's tragic and it's mind boggling to think about someone spending the next three decades in prison who really doesn't need to be there.
我认为这是悲剧性的，想到一个人在监狱里度过了接下来的三十年，而实际上并不需要在那里，这真是令人难以置信。
Vincent went into prison and very quickly started to do positive things.
文森特入狱后很快就开始做积极的事情。
He's never been in any discipline problems at all in the prison since he's been incarcerated.
自从入狱以来，他在监狱里从未出现过任何纪律问题。
He's worked as a photographer and the editor of The Pen News, the pentitentiary news, when he was in Pontiac.
当他在庞蒂亚克时，他曾担任摄影师和《监狱新闻》《笔新闻》的编辑。
He worked jobs.
他打工。
He went to school.
他去上学了。
He's a painter.
他是一位画家。
He does oil paintings mostly of classic cars, and he's very good at it.
他画的油画主要是老爷车，而且他很擅长。
Vincent was back on the right track within probably a year or two.
文森特可能在一两年内就回到了正确的轨道。
And I don't think it was because he had a 75-year sentence hanging over his head.
我不认为这是因为他面临着 75 年的刑期。
If he had just 12 and 1/2 years ahead of him, probably the same thing, you're saying.
你会说，如果他只领先他 12 又 1/2 年，情况可能是一样的。
It may have been regardless of what he had hanging over his head.
这可能与他头上悬着的是什么无关。
He needed some time out.
他需要一些时间。
And most guys don't do positive time like Vincent has.
大多数人都不会像文森特那样度过积极的时光。
There's no doubt in my mind that Vincent could have come out a few years ago and gotten a job and been a productive citizen.
在我看来，毫无疑问，文森特几年前就可以出柜，找到一份工作，成为一名富有成效的公民。
I was stubborn when they offered me that time really out of ignorance.
当他们出于无知而给我提供那段时间时，我很固执。
I don't know why I didn't see the need to cop out for that 25 years.
我不知道为什么在那 25 年里我没有意识到有必要逃避现实。
But I didn't.
但我没有。
Now if I was offered that cop-out today, of course I'd take it.
如果今天有人向我提供这种逃避的机会，我当然会接受。
Of course.
当然。
Even though that can never happen.
尽管那永远不可能发生。
Steve Bogira is working on a book about a year in a courtroom here in Chicago.
史蒂夫·博吉拉（Steve Bogira）正在芝加哥的法庭上工作一年，正在写一本书。
Vince Bogan's 75-year sentence will probably last 37 and 1/2 years because of good behavior.
由于表现良好，文斯·博根的 75 年刑期可能会持续 37 又 1/2 年。
He'll get out around the year 2025, nearly 60 years old.
2025年左右他就会出狱，年近60岁。
If he hadn't said no to his plea bargain, he'd be out next year.
如果他没有拒绝认罪交易，他明年就会出局。
Well, our program was produced by Susan Burton and myself with Alex Blumberg, Julie Snyder, and Nancy Updike.
嗯，我们的节目是由苏珊·伯顿和我以及亚历克斯·布隆伯格、朱莉·斯奈德和南希·厄普代克制作的。
Contributing editors Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, and Consigliere Sarah Vowell.
特约编辑 Paul Tough、Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin 和 Consigliere Sarah Vowell。
Production help from Starlee Kine, Todd Bachmann, Sylvia Lemus, and Jorge Just, who ends his internship with our program today and who we wish the very best for.
Starlee Kine、Todd Bachmann、Sylvia Lemus 和 Jorge Just 为制作提供了帮助，他今天结束了我们项目的实习，我们祝愿他一切顺利。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] To buy a cassette of this program, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago, 312-832-3380.
[鸣谢] 要购买该节目的磁带，请致电我们芝加哥的 WBEZ，电话：312-832-3380。
Or you know, you can listen to most of our programs for free on the internet at our website, www.thislife.org.
或者您知道，您可以在我们的网站 www.thislife.org 上免费收听我们的大部分节目。
Thanks to Elizabeth Meister who runs the site.
感谢运营该网站的伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister)。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who struggles valiantly every day--
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理监督由托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 负责，他每天都在英勇奋斗——
I've devoted more of my life to thoughts of giving up than anyone else I can think of.
我一生中花在放弃想法上的时间比我能想到的任何人都多。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。