131: The Kids Are Alright - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #131 | June 4, 1999 131: The Kids Are Alright Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 131 集 | 1999 年 6 月 4 日 131：孩子们都很好 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass When it comes to teenagers, we always get it wrong.
序言 Ira Glass 当谈到青少年时，我们总是会弄错。
Even in the most widely scrutinized, widely reported stories, we get it wrong.
即使在受到最广泛审查、广泛报道的故事中，我们也可能会犯错。
Take Tiananmen Square.
以天安门广场为例。
This week is the 10th anniversary of the crackdown and the massacre there.
本周是镇压和屠杀十周年。
And you think you know the story.
你认为你知道这个故事。
Idealistic students trying to democratize their government.
理想主义的学生试图使政府民主化。
But in fact, it was more complicated than that.
但事实上，事情比这更复杂。
The majority of students were like me.
大多数学生都像我一样。
I was a very typical student at that time.
那时我是一个非常典型的学生。
And our knowledge of what democracy was was really limited.
我们对民主的了解非常有限。
Wen Huang was part of the student movement, first in Shanghai, where he was a graduate student at the time, then in Beijing at Tiananmen Square right up until the crackdown on June 4, 1989.
黄文是学生运动的一部分，先是在上海，当时他还是一名研究生，然后在北京天安门广场，直到 1989 年 6 月 4 日镇压。
And he says that for him and most of the students he knew, the movement was not about turning China into more of a democracy.
他说，对于他和他认识的大多数学生来说，这场运动并不是要让中国变得更加民主。
He says students wanted the government to cutdown on corruption, do something about inflation, allow them to criticize the government without being thrown in jail or kept from good jobs.
他说，学生们希望政府减少腐败，对通货膨胀采取措施，允许他们批评政府而不被投入监狱或失去好工作。
It never occurred to us that we wanted to overthrow the Communist government.
我们从来没有想过我们要推翻共产党政府。
It was like the Communist party was a God-given thing.
共产党就像是天赐的东西一样。
And we were born with it.
我们与生俱来。
We're going to die with it.
我们将与它同归于尽。
And the only way to make it work for us is just to have some modest reforms within the government.
让它为我们服务的唯一方法就是在政府内部进行一些适度的改革。
But Wen says that for most of the students he knew, most of the students in the movement, he believes, there was another motivation besides politics, an equally compelling, if not more compelling, motivation.
但文说，对于他认识的大多数学生来说，他相信运动中的大多数学生除了政治之外还有另一种动机，一种同样引人注目的动机，如果不是更引人注目的话。
It was really like a big party.
这真的就像一个大型聚会。
I never heard about Woodstock until I came to the US.
我来美国之前从未听说过伍德斯托克音乐节。
Woodstock, yeah.
伍德斯托克，是的。
Wen Huang Woodstock.
文黄伍德斯托克。
And then later on, I watched a video tape.
后来，我看了一盘录像带。
And then suddenly, I realized that the student movement in 1989 was just like a big-- similar to the Woodstock experience.
然后突然，我意识到1989年的学生运动就像一场大的——类似于伍德斯托克的经历。
Why?
为什么？
What were you seeing that was similar in 1989 in China, in Tiananmen Square, and in Shanghai that was similar to what was going on at Woodstock?
您在 1989 年的中国、天安门广场和上海看到了哪些与伍德斯托克音乐节相似的内容？
The festive atmosphere and the playfulness.
喜庆的气氛和欢乐的气氛。
And we were singing pop songs, and people playing guitars.
我们唱流行歌曲，人们弹吉他。
It was exciting, Wen says.
温说，这很令人兴奋。
Midterms were coming up.
期中考试即将来临。
Papers were due.
论文到期了。
And everybody would skip class together to go to demonstrations.
大家还一起逃课去示威。
This is not to say that there was not political idealism behind all this.
这并不是说这一切背后没有政治理想主义。
There was.
有。
But as one of the best known student leaders, Chai Ling, said in an article in The New Yorker magazine commemorating the 10th anniversary of Tiananmen Square, the demonstrations, even the hunger strikes weren't primarily political as far as she was concerned.
但正如最著名的学生领袖之一柴玲在《纽约客》杂志纪念天安门广场十周年的一篇文章中所说，示威活动，甚至绝食抗议，在她看来主要不是政治性的。
It was about a kind of sheer pleasure in living, she said, a rock and roll bravado.
她说，这是一种纯粹的生活乐趣，一种摇滚乐的虚张声势。
Wen Huang agrees.
黄文也同意。
I think that was kind of accurate statement.
我认为这是一个准确的说法。
I think there was more of an honest assessment of what's motivated us to take part in this movement.
我认为对我们参与这场运动的动机有更多的诚实评估。
Because I noticed when I first came out here, the student leaders who escaped China--
因为我刚出来的时候注意到，逃离中国的学生领袖——
The student leaders who escaped, uh-huh.
逃出来的学生领袖啊，嗯。
The student leaders who escaped China, when they came over here, they exaggerated the motivation.
逃离中国的学生领袖，当他们来到这里时，他们夸大了动机。
They portrayed themselves as such democracy fighters, as if they knew so much about democracy.
他们把自己描绘成这样的民主斗士，好像他们对民主非常了解。
And that has a lot to do with how Americans have this romantic vision of the Tiananmen Square movement.
这与美国人对天安门广场运动的浪漫愿景有很大关系。
Of course, it goes further than this.
当然，它的意义远不止于此。
We Americans have a romantic vision of what it means just to be a student, what it means to be young.
我们美国人对学生的意义和年轻的意义抱有浪漫的愿景。
And we ascribe a lot of motivations and meaning to what young people do that simply don't bear much relation to reality.
我们对年轻人所做的事情赋予了很多动机和意义，但与现实没有太大关系。
Today on our program, we try to set the record straight with a few typical case examples.
今天在我们的节目中，我们试图通过一些典型案例来澄清事实。
From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, The Kids Are Alright, stories in which people try to set the record straight about actions that adults seem to widely misinterpret.
今天的节目《孩子们都很好》讲述了人们试图澄清成年人似乎广泛误解的行为的故事。
Act One, Where The People Walk Around Upside Down.
第一幕，人们颠倒行走。
A story about what you think you know about the 1989 student uprising in China versus what really happened.
这是一个关于您自以为了解的 1989 年中国学生起义与真实发生情况的故事。
Act Two, When Czechs Bounce.
第二幕，当捷克人反弹时。
The true tale of how young people's music in Czechoslovakia in the 1940s and '50s seemed to pose a threat first to the Nazi occupation, then to communist authorities.
这是关于 20 世纪 40 年代和 50 年代捷克斯洛伐克年轻人音乐如何首先对纳粹占领、然后对共产主义当局构成威胁的真实故事。
Act Three, When We Were Animals.
第三幕，当我们还是动物时。
Someone who helped perpetrate high school violence when he was a teenager tries to find the blurry line that divides childhood prank from social pathology.
一个在青少年时期帮助实施高中暴力的人试图找到区分童年恶作剧和社会病态的模糊界限。
Act Four, When We Were Angels, in which we hear the purest possible student uprising imaginable, the most innocent, documented by an actual student using the crude tools of telephone answering machine and shiny, red boom box.
第四幕《当我们还是天使》中，我们听到了可以想象到的最纯粹、最无辜的学生起义，由一个真实的学生使用电话答录机和闪亮的红色音箱等简陋工具记录下来。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Where the People Walk Around Upside Down.
第一幕，人们颠倒行走。
Growing up in China, Wen Huang believed that China was an advanced country, a civilized country, which provided for all its citizens, not like those countries with poor people in them.
在中国长大的黄文认为，中国是一个先进的国家，一个文明的国家，为所有公民提供生活保障，而不是像那些有穷人的国家。
I remember when I was growing up, each time I couldn't finish my meal, my mom always say, "Oh, you gotta finish your meal.
我记得在我成长的过程中，每次我吃不完饭，妈妈总是说：“哦，你必须吃完饭。
Just imagine how lucky you are.
想象一下你是多么幸运。
People in America are starving." And of course, I heard the same thing.
美国人民正在挨饿。”当然，我也听到了同样的事情。
And of course, once you came to this country, everybody told you, "My mom would say to me, 'Yes, finish your meal because there are children starving in China.'"
当然，一旦你来到这个国家，每个人都会告诉你，“我妈妈会对我说，‘是的，吃完饭，因为中国有孩子在挨饿。’”
Yeah, I actually believed that.
是的，我确实相信这一点。
I remember that was our impression of America.
我记得这就是我们对美国的印象。
We thought China was very strong.
我们认为中国非常强大。
We felt very lucky to be under the socialist system.
我们为生活在社会主义制度下感到非常幸运。
In a more advanced system, where that wouldn't happen.
在更先进的系统中，这种情况不会发生。
In a more advanced system, everybody's equal.
在更先进的系统中，每个人都是平等的。
And then suddenly, in the 1980s, when China opened up to the outside world, we suddenly felt that we were left behind.
然后突然之间，在20世纪80年代，当中国对外开放时，我们突然感到自己被抛在了后面。
And there was the phrase saying that we were at least 30 or 40 years behind the United States and England.
还有一句话说我们至少落后美国和英国三十、四十年。
And we felt humiliated in a way.
我们在某种程度上感到受到了羞辱。
Students like Wen had friends who'd gone overseas, who'd seen that in Europe and America, the grocery stores had 30 different kinds of cookies, that it was fantastic prosperity abroad.
像文这样的学生有朋友出国了，他们看到在欧美，杂货店里有30种不同的饼干，国外真是太繁荣了。
Meanwhile, opening to the West meant the end of wage and price controls back home in China, and prices were skyrocketing.
与此同时，向西方开放意味着中国国内工资和价格控制的结束，物价飞涨。
Wen remembers living on $10 a month American and watching the price of tomatoes climb from $0.01 a pound to $0.30 a pound.
Wen 记得每月靠 10 美元生活在美国，看着西红柿的价格从每磅 0.01 美元攀升到每磅 0.30 美元。
It just didn't seem like there was any kind of future to be had in China, anything to be idealistic about.
中国似乎没有任何未来，也没有任何理想主义的东西。
That was what sent students to the streets, Wen says, not some idea of American-style democracy, which they didn't know much about anyway.
温说，这就是学生们走上街头的原因，而不是美国式民主的某种理念，因为他们对这种民主并不太了解。
We really had a mentality of "We could save this world." We were young.
我们确实有一种“我们可以拯救这个世界”的心态。我们还年轻。
There was a Chinese phrase, saying, "A newborn calf doesn't know the danger ahead." That is exactly what we were.
中国有句话叫“初生牛犊不知前路险恶”。我们正是如此。
We felt like the whole future-- we could change the future.
我们感觉整个未来——我们可以改变未来。
We could change the country.
我们可以改变这个国家。
As how we're going to change it, we didn't know.
至于我们要如何改变它，我们不知道。
So we grew up watching these movies about the martyrs, for example, during the early communist movements, how people would face the bullets to die for a cause.
所以我们是看着这些关于烈士的电影长大的，例如，在早期的共产主义运动中，人们如何面对子弹为某种事业而死。
And that really had the impact.
这确实产生了影响。
We felt like we wanted to be part of it.
我们觉得我们想成为其中的一部分。
I remember during the Cultural Revolution, thousands of Red Guards-- like my uncle and my aunt, they were Red Guards-- thousand Red Guards, they traveled hundreds of miles to Beijing to see Chairman Mao Zedong, who was the leader of the communist movement.
我记得文化大革命期间，成千上万的红卫兵——就像我的叔叔和阿姨一样，他们是红卫兵——成千上万的红卫兵，他们不远千里来到北京，去见毛泽东主席，他是共产主义运动的领袖。
He was like a living god.
他就像一个活着的神。
And my aunt and my uncle told me that they were young, and they would walk hundreds of miles.
我的姑姑和叔叔告诉我，他们还年轻，他们会步行数百英里。
And sometimes, when they took the train, the train was so crowded that people had to stand in the toilets for 7 or 8 hours or 20 hours.
有时，乘火车时，火车上非常拥挤，人们不得不在厕所里站7、8个小时或20个小时。
And also, people have to cram into the luggage rack just to go to Beijing to see Chairman Mao.
而且，为了去北京看毛主席，人们还得挤进行李架。
And later on, during the 1980s, we found that was kind of stupid.
后来，在 20 世纪 80 年代，我们发现这有点愚蠢。
The Red Guards, they really did a lot of damage.
红卫兵，他们确实造成了很大的损失。
But on the other part was the fantasy.
但另一方面是幻想。
I felt like, I wish I could live in that time to experience the excitement that my aunt and my uncle, they lived.
我觉得，我希望我能生活在那个时代，体验我的阿姨和我的叔叔生活的兴奋。
Because each time they reminisced that, their voice started changing.
因为每当他们回忆起这一点时，他们的声音就会开始改变。
They got excited.
他们很兴奋。
It's like part of the experience.
这就像体验的一部分。
I always felt like I wanted to be that part of experience.
我总觉得我想成为体验的一部分。
That was why, when I was in Shanghai after the students' hunger strike, I felt like I really wanted to go where the action was.
所以，当我在上海学生绝食之后，我就觉得我很想去行动发生的地方。
So I took the train to Beijing.
于是我就坐火车去北京了。
I remember very clearly that on the spur of the moment, I said, "I want to go to Beijing." And my classmates said, "Let's go." And we had a bag, only had a toothbrush and several books.
我记得很清楚，我一时冲动说：“我想去北京。”同学们说：“走吧。”我们有一个包，只有一把牙刷和几本书。
We never had the idea, "We need to change." We said, "We want to be a revolutionary."
我们从来没有想过“我们需要改变”。我们说：“我们想成为一名革命者。”
And when we went to the train station, it was so crowded, there was no way we could get a ticket with a seat.
当我们去火车站的时候，人太多了，我们根本买不到有座位的票。
So we just bought a platform ticket, and we snuck in.
于是我们就买了站台票，就溜进去了。
And when we got on the train, it was very crowded.
当我们上了火车时，车上非常拥挤。
And then I thought about the experience of my aunt and my uncle.
然后我想到了我姑妈和叔叔的经历。
I kind of hoped that the train would be so crowded that I had to go stand in the toilets for 20 hours to go to Beijing.
我有点希望火车能挤到我要在厕所里站20个小时才能去北京。
I just sat in the aisle, and I kept thinking, "Oh, this is not as exciting as my aunt and my uncle experienced." It's just the side of living the fantasy.
我只是坐在过道上，心里一直在想：“哦，这可不像我姑姑和叔叔经历的那么令人兴奋。”这只是实现幻想的一面。
And also, when I was in Beijing, when we heard the martial law, the troops were going to march in, my classmates and I, we were always wanting to talk, we said, "If the soldiers start shoot us, we'll walk hand-in-hand, and then just walk towards them, and then we may die as martyrs." The fantasies we got from watching the movies is so heroic.
还有，当我在北京的时候，当我们听到戒严令，军队要开进的时候，我和我的同学们，我们总是想说话，我们说，“如果士兵开始向我们开枪，我们就手拉手走，然后就向他们走去，然后我们可能会作为烈士而死。”我们看电影时的幻想是如此的英雄。
Now, looking back, I thought I was very stupid.
现在回想起来，我觉得自己真是太傻了。
But then I still think it was a very important part of my life.
但后来我仍然认为这是我生活中非常重要的一部分。
I'm glad I did it.
我很高兴我做到了。
One of the actions that led up to the events in Tiananmen Square were the hunger strikes that took place in different cities, students in different cities, including in Shanghai.
导致天安门广场事件的行动之一是在不同城市发生的绝食抗议，包括上海在内的不同城市的学生。
And that seems like a situation where students actually were putting themselves on the line and would starve themselves for days.
这看起来就像是学生们实际上把自己置于危险之中，并且会挨饿好几天。
Yes, I can say that when my best friend, we grew up in the same city, and he said, he was going to be on hunger strike.
是的，我可以说，当我最好的朋友，我们在同一个城市长大，他说，他要绝食抗议。
I said, "What is hunger strike?
我说：“什么是绝食？
How are you going to do it?" He said, "Oh, you're just going to starve yourself."
你打算怎么做？”他说：“哦，你只会饿死自己。”
And I was really touched since I went with him, I saw students, they had a massive sit-in in the square.
而且我跟他一起去了之后真的很感动，我看到学生们，他们在广场上大规模的静坐。
And then those who were on hunger strike, they were in a special place.
然后那些绝食抗议的人，他们处于一个特殊的位置。
They were really serious.
他们真的很认真。
And the next day, I decide to help my friend.
第二天，我决定帮助我的朋友。
So I brought some water, bottled water, and a quilt.
所以我带了一些水、瓶装水和一床被子。
And I went to the square to look for him.
我就去广场找他。
So I went over there.
所以我就去了那里。
I couldn't find him anywhere.
我到处都找不到他。
And also, I noticed that there were a lot of new faces.
而且，我注意到有很多新面孔。
The students who were there the previous night were no longer there, a lot of them.
昨晚在场的学生已经不在了，很多。
So I just went back to the school.
于是我就直接回了学校。
And I was in the students' cafeteria.
我当时在学生食堂。
I found that he was eating a big bowl of noodle.
我发现他正在吃一大碗面。
I said, "Aren't you supposed to be on hunger strike?" He said, "Oh, after the first 12 hours, I was so hungry, I just couldn't stand it.
我说：你不是应该绝食吗？他说：“哦，经过最初的 12 个小时，我实在是太饿了，简直无法忍受。
And that's why.
这就是原因。
It was too much for me.
这对我来说太过分了。
I decided to come back." He said, "We're human."
我决定回来。”他说：“我们是人。”
You're not saying that no one was sincere and that no one was striking.
你并不是说没有人是真诚的，也没有人是引人注目的。
No, I'm sure there were a lot of people who were very sincere about that.
不，我确信有很多人对此非常真诚。
They did starve-- a hunger strike.
他们确实挨饿了——绝食抗议。
But a lot of people-- I come back to the point that because it was a big party and, also, it was such a big show, a lot of people join us.
但是很多人——我回到这一点，因为这是一个大型聚会，而且也是一个大型演出，所以很多人加入我们。
And we were young kids.
我们还是小孩子。
They just started to go on hunger strike for the show.
他们为了演出才开始绝食。
And then when nobody was looking, they go and eat something.
然后趁没人注意的时候，他们就去吃点东西。
Wen, do you think that when the Western press has tended to write about Tiananmen Square and the student movement that they've been more pious about it than it felt to be in that movement?
温先生，您是否认为，当西方媒体倾向于报道天安门广场和学生运动时，他们对此事的态度是否比他们在这场运动中所感受到的更加虔诚？
I think that my general impression of the Western media, their coverage of Tiananmen Square is they tend to romanticize the movement.
我认为我对西方媒体的总体印象是他们对天安门广场的报道倾向于浪漫化这一运动。
When I came over here, the first things, people started to call me "democracy fighter." I always cringe at that idea when people start to-- of course, I like the treatment.
当我来到这里时，首先，人们开始称我为“民主斗士”。当人们开始——当然，我喜欢这种待遇时，我总是对这个想法感到畏缩。
I remember one day I was invited to talk about Tiananmen Square.
我记得有一天我被邀请去谈论天安门广场。
That's the first year I was in Springfield, Illinois.
那是我来到伊利诺伊州斯普林菲尔德的第一年。
I went to talk to a civic group about Tiananmen Square and human rights in China.
我去一个民间团体谈论天安门广场和中国的人权。
And I had some pictures of me marching in Tiananmen Square.
我还有一些我在天安门广场游行的照片。
So try to impress audience, I show them some pictures.
所以为了给观众留下深刻印象，我给他们看了一些照片。
And then the organizer of the speech immediately started to refer to me as "a democracy fighter." And then they all stood up and clapped hands.
然后演讲的组织者立即开始称我为“民主斗士”。然后他们都站起来鼓掌。
I felt like I was a hero.
我觉得我是一个英雄。
I kind of liked the treatment.
我有点喜欢这种治疗。
But then also, I felt obligated to tell them that I really didn't know anything about democracy at that time.
但同时，我也觉得有义务告诉他们，我当时对民主真的一无所知。
So I just said, "I wasn't really a democracy fighter.
所以我只是说，“我并不是真正的民主斗士。
I had no idea what democracy was." And they were little disappointed.
我不知道什么是民主。”他们有点失望。
Wen Huang is a freelance journalist here in Chicago.
黄文是芝加哥的一名自由撰稿人。
Act Two, When Czechs Bounce.
第二幕，当捷克人反弹时。
If part of the impulse behind the Tiananmen Square uprising was the pure desire to feel like life had possibility, that the future had potential, that was the same impulse behind another movement among young people in Eastern Europe, back before the Berlin Wall fell.
如果说天安门广场起义背后的部分冲动是纯粹渴望感觉生活有可能、未来有潜力，那么这与柏林墙倒塌之前东欧年轻人的另一场运动背后的冲动是一样的。
That movement was not, strictly speaking, political, though it took on a political dimension.
严格来说，这场运动并不是政治性的，尽管它具有政治层面。
It had to do with music.
这与音乐有关。
Josef Skvorecky wrote an essay about jazz in Czechoslovakia as a preface to his novella, The Bass Saxophone.
约瑟夫·斯科沃雷基 (Josef Skvorecky) 写了一篇关于捷克斯洛伐克爵士乐的文章，作为他的中篇小说《低音萨克斯管》的序言。
That was also before the Berlin wall fell.
那也是在柏林墙倒塌之前。
We asked actor Ed Dixon to read an except for us here.
我们请演员艾德·迪克森在这里为我们朗读一份例外。
In the days when everything in life was fresh because we were 16, 17, I used to blow tenor sax very poorly.
在我们16、17岁的时候，生活中的一切都是新鲜的，我曾经吹得很差次中音萨克斯。
Our band was called Red Music, which, in fact, was a misnomer since the name had no political connotations.
我们的乐队被称为“红色音乐”，事实上，这是一个用词不当，因为这个名字没有政治含义。
There was a band in Prague that called itself Blue Music.
布拉格有一支乐队自称为 Blue Music。
And we, living in the Nazi protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, had no idea that, in jazz, "blue" was not a color.
而我们，生活在波西米亚和摩拉维亚的纳粹保护地，不知道在爵士乐中，“蓝色”不是一种颜色。
So we called ours "red."
所以我们称我们的为“红色”。
But if the name itself had no political connotations, our sweet, wild music did.
但如果这个名字本身没有政治含义，那么我们甜美、狂野的音乐却有。
For jazz was a sharp thorn in the sides of the power-hungry men, from Hitler to Brezhnev, who successively ruled in my native land.
因为爵士乐是那些渴望权力的人的眼中钉，从希特勒到勃列日涅夫，他们先后统治了我的祖国。
What sort of political connotations?
有什么样的政治内涵？
Leftist?
左派？
Rightist?
右倾？
Racialist?
种族主义者？
Classist?
古典主义者？
Nationalist?
民族主义者？
The vocabulary of ideologists and mountebanks doesn't have a word for it.
思想家和江湖骗子的词汇中没有这个词。
The essence of this music, this way of making music, is not simply protest.
这种音乐的本质，这种制作音乐的方式，不仅仅是抗议。
Its essence is something far more elemental, an elan vital, a forceful vitality, an explosive creative energy as breathtaking as that of any true art that may be felt even in the saddest of blues.
它的本质是更本质的东西，一种活力，一种强大的生命力，一种爆炸性的创造力，就像任何真正的艺术一样令人惊叹，即使在最悲伤的忧郁中也能感受到。
Its effect is cathartic.
它的作用是宣泄。
But of course, when the lives of individuals and communities are controlled by powers that themselves remain uncontrolled, slavers, czars, fuehrers, first secretaries, marshals, generals, and generalissimos, ideologists of dictatorships at either end of the spectrum, then creative energy becomes a protest.
但是，当然，当个人和社区的生活被本身不受控制的权力所控制时，如奴隶主、沙皇、元首、第一书记、元帅、将军和大元帅、两端的独裁思想家，那么创造性的能量就会变成一种抗议。
That is the way it is.
事情就是这样。
Totalitarian ideologists don't like real life, other people's, because it cannot be totally controlled.
极权主义思想家不喜欢现实生活，其他人的生活，因为它无法完全控制。
They loathe art, the product of a yearning for life, because that, too, evades control.
他们厌恶艺术，因为艺术是对生活向往的产物，因为艺术也无法控制。
If controlled and legislated, it perishes.
如果受到控制和立法，它就会消亡。
But before it perishes, or when it finds refuge in some kind of samizdat underground, art, willy-nilly, becomes protest.
但在它消亡之前，或者当它在某种地下地下出版物中找到庇护所时，无论愿意与否，艺术都变成了抗议。
Popular mass art, like jazz, becomes mass protest.
流行的大众艺术，如爵士乐，变成了大规模的抗议。
That's why the ideological guns, and sometimes even the police guns, of all dictatorships are aimed at the men with the horns.
这就是为什么所有独裁政权的意识形态枪支，有时甚至是警察的枪支，都瞄准了那些有角的人。
Red Music used to play, badly, but with the enthusiasm of 16-year-olds during the reign of the most Aryan Aryan of them all and his cultural handyman, Doctor Goebbels.
红色音乐曾经演奏得很糟糕，但在雅利安人中最雅利安人和他的文化勤杂工戈培尔博士统治时期，却充满了16岁孩子的热情。
It was Goebbels who declared, "Now I shall speak quite openly on the question of whether German radio should broadcast so-called jazz music.
戈培尔宣称：“现在我将非常公开地谈论德国广播电台是否应该播放所谓爵士音乐的问题。
If by jazz, we mean music that is based on rhythm and entirely ignores or even shows contempt for melody, music in which rhythm is indicated primarily by the ugly sounds of whining instruments so insulting to the soul, why, then we can only reply to the question entirely in the negative." Which was the reason we whined and wailed, rasped and roared, using all kinds of wah-wah and hat mutes, some of them manufactured by ourselves.
如果我们所说的爵士乐是指以节奏为基础、完全忽视甚至蔑视旋律的音乐，这种音乐的节奏主要是通过乐器发出的丑陋声音来体现，这是对灵魂的侮辱，那么为什么呢，那么我们只能完全否定这个问题。”这就是我们哀嚎、哀嚎、刺耳、咆哮的原因，使用各种哇音器和帽子静音器，其中一些是我们自己制造的。
But even then, protest was one of the lesser reasons.
但即便如此，抗议仍然是次要原因之一。
Primarily, we loved that music we called jazz and that, in fact, was swing, the half-white progeny of Chicago and New Orleans that our non-blowing contemporaries danced to in mountain villages out of reach of the Schutzpolizei, the uniformed security service.
首先，我们喜欢我们称之为爵士乐的音乐，事实上，它是摇摆乐，是芝加哥和新奥尔良的半白人后代，我们那些不会吹奏的同时代人在远离穿制服的保安部门的山村里跳舞。
For even dancing was forbidden in the Third Reich, which was in mourning for the dead of the Battle of Stalingrad.
因为在第三帝国，甚至在哀悼斯大林格勒战役死难者的时候，跳舞也是被禁止的。
The revelation we experienced was one of those that can only come in one's youth, before the soul has acquired a shell from being touched by too many sensations.
我们所经历的启示是只有在一个人年轻时才会出现的启示之一，在灵魂因受到太多感觉的触动而获得外壳之前。
In my mind, I can still hear very clearly the sound of the saxes on that old, terribly scratchy Brunswick 78, spinning on a wind-up phonograph with the almost illegible label, "I've Got A Guy, Chick Webb And His Orchestra With Vocal Chorus." Wildly sweet, soaring, swinging saxophones.
在我的脑海里，我仍然可以非常清楚地听到那台旧的、非常刺耳的 Brunswick 78 上的萨克斯声，在发条留声机上旋转，上面有几乎难以辨认的标签，“我有一个家伙，奇克·韦伯和他的管弦乐团与声乐合唱团。”狂野甜美、高亢、摇摆的萨克斯管。
The lazy and unknown voice of the unknown vocalist who left us spellbound, even though we had no way of knowing that this was the great, then 17-year-old Ella Fitzgerald.
这位不知名歌手慵懒而陌生的声音让我们着迷，尽管我们根本不知道这就是当时 17 岁的伟大的艾拉·菲茨杰拉德 (Ella Fitzgerald)。
But the message of her voice, the call of the saxes, the short wailing, weeping saxophone solo between the two vocal choruses, they all came across.
但她的声音所传达的信息、萨克斯管的鸣叫、两个合唱团之间短促的哀号、哭泣的萨克斯管独奏，它们都被传达了出来。
Nothing could ever silence them in our hearts.
没有什么能让他们在我们心中安静下来。
There was even a swing band in the notorious Buchenwald, made up, for the most part, of Czech and French prisoners.
臭名昭著的布痕瓦尔德集中营甚至还有一支摇摆乐队，大部分由捷克和法国囚犯组成。
And since those were not only cruel, but also absurd times, people were put behind barbed wire because of the very music that was played inside.
因为那不仅是残酷的，而且是荒谬的时代，人们因为里面播放的音乐而被关在铁丝网后面。
In a concentration camp near Wiener Neustadt, sat Vicherek, a guitar player who had sung Louis Armstrong's scat chorus in "Tiger Rag" and thus, according to the Nazi judge, defiled musical culture.
在维也纳新城附近的一个集中营里，坐着吉他手维切莱克，他在《Tiger Rag》中演唱了路易斯·阿姆斯特朗的合唱部分，根据纳粹法官的说法，他玷污了音乐文化。
Elsewhere in Germany, several swing men met a similar fate.
在德国其他地方，几名摇摆人也遭遇了类似的命运。
And one local Gauleiter issued an extraordinary-- really extraordinary in this world of ours-- set of regulations which were binding for all dance orchestras.
当地的一位长官颁布了一套非同寻常的——在我们这个世界上确实非同寻常的——一套对所有舞蹈管弦乐队都有约束力的规定。
I read them, gnashing my teeth, in Czech translation in the film weekly, Filmovy kuryr.
我咬牙切齿地在电影周刊《Filmovy kuryr》中读到了捷克语译本。
And 15 years later, I paraphrase them, faithfully, I'm sure, since they had engraved themselves deeply on my mind, in a short story entitled "I Won't Take Back One Word."
15年后，我确信，在一篇题为“我不会收回一个字”的短篇小说中，我忠实地解释了它们，因为它们已经深深地铭刻在我的脑海中。
One, pieces in foxtrot rhythms, so-called swing, are not to exceed 20% of the repertoires of light orchestras and dance bands.
第一，狐步节奏的曲目，即所谓的摇摆乐，不得超过轻乐团和舞蹈乐队曲目的20%。
Two, in this so-called jazz-type repertoire, preference is to be given to compositions in a major key and to lyrics expressing joy and life, rather than Jewishly gloomy lyrics.
第二，在这种所谓的爵士乐类型的曲目中，优先考虑大调的作品和表达欢乐和生活的歌词，而不是犹太式的阴郁歌词。
Three, as to tempo, preference is also to be given to brisk compositions over slow ones, so-called blues.
第三，就节奏而言，也应优先选择轻快的作品而不是缓慢的作品，即所谓的布鲁斯。
However, the pace must not exceed a certain degree of allegro commensurate with the Aryan sense of discipline and moderation.
然而，节奏不得超过一定程度的快板，与雅利安人的纪律感和节制感相称。
On no account will Negroid excesses in tempo, so-called hot jazz, or in solo performances, so-called breaks, be tolerated.
无论如何，黑人在节奏上的过度，即所谓的热爵士乐，或在独奏表演中的过度，即所谓的休息，都是不能容忍的。
Four, strictly prohibited is the use of instruments alien to the German spirit, so-called cowbells, flexatones, brushes, et cetera, as well as all mutes, which turn the noble sound of wind and brass instruments into a Jewish-Free-Masonic yowl, so-called wah-wahs, hats, et cetera.
第四，严格禁止使用与德国精神格格不入的乐器，即所谓的牛铃、柔音、刷子等，以及所有弱音器，它们将管乐器和铜管乐器的高贵声音变成犹太自由共济会的嚎叫声，即所谓的哇哇声、帽子等。
Five, all light orchestra and dance bands are advised to restrict the use of saxophones of all keys and to substitute for them the violincello, the viola, or possibly a suitable folk instrument.
第五，建议所有轻乐团和舞蹈乐队限制使用所有音调的萨克斯管，并用小提琴、中提琴或可能合适的民间乐器代替。
How naive we were, how full of love and reverence because Doctor Goebbels had decided that the whining Judeo-Negroid music invented by American capitalists was not to be played in the territory of the Third Reich.
我们是多么天真，多么充满爱和崇敬，因为戈培尔医生决定美国资本家发明的哀怨的犹太黑人音乐不得在第三帝国境内演奏。
We had a ball inventing aliases for legendary tunes, so that they might be heard in the territory of the Third Reich after all.
我们举办了一个舞会，为传奇曲调发明别名，以便它们最终可以在第三帝国的领土上听到。
We played a fast piece, one of those forbidden "brisk" compositions, called "The Wild Bull," indistinguishable to the naked ear from "Tiger Rag." We played a low tune, "Abendlied" or "Evening Song."
我们演奏了一首快节奏的乐曲，这是一种被禁止的“轻快”乐曲，名为“The Wild Bull”，肉眼无法将其与“Tiger Rag”区分开来。我们演奏了一首低沉的曲子，“Abendlied”或“Evening Song”。
And fortunately, the Nazi censors had never heard the black voice singing, "When the deep purple falls over sleepy garden walls." And the height of our effrontery, "The Song of Resetova Lhota," in fact "Saint Louis Blues," rang out one misty day in 1943 in eastern Bohemia, sung in Czech by a country girl, the lyrics composed so that they might elaborate on our new title for W.
幸运的是，纳粹审查人员从未听到过黑人的声音唱着“当深紫色落在昏昏欲睡的花园墙壁上时”。我们最厚颜无耻的歌曲《Resetova Lhota 之歌》，实际上是《圣路易斯布鲁斯》，于 1943 年东波西米亚的一个雾天响起，由一位乡村女孩用捷克语演唱，歌词的创作目的是为了详细说明我们为 W 创作的新歌名。
C.
C.
Handy's theme song, "Resetova Lhota is where I go.
Handy 的主题曲“Resetova Lhota 就是我要去的地方。
I'm on my way to see my Aryan folk."
我正要去见我的雅利安人。”
In fact, we were fortunate that the local Nazis had never seen Chaplin's The Great Dictator, never heard the bullies sing about, "the Ary-- Ary-- Ary-- Ary-- Aryans." Neither had we of course.
事实上，我们很幸运，当地的纳粹从未看过卓别林的《大独裁者》，从未听过恶霸们唱的“雅利安——雅利安——雅利安——雅利安人”。我们当然也没有。
The song of "Resetova Lhota" was simply an indigenous response to Nazism.
《Resetova Lhota》这首歌只是土著人对纳粹主义的回应。
Count Basie, Louis Armstrong, Tommy Dorsey, Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller.
贝西伯爵、路易斯·阿姆斯特朗、汤米·多尔西、本尼·古德曼、格伦·米勒。
You name them, we knew them all.
只要你说出他们的名字，我们都认识他们。
And yet, we knew nothing.
然而，我们一无所知。
The hours we spent racking our brains over song titles we couldn't understand.
我们花了很多时间绞尽脑汁思考我们无法理解的歌曲名称。
"Struttin' with some barbecue." The definition of the word "barbecue" in our pocket Webster didn't help at all.
“带着一些烧烤来昂首阔步。”我们口袋里的韦伯斯特对“烧烤”这个词的定义根本没有帮助。
What on earth could it mean?
这到底意味着什么？
Walking pompously with a piece of animal carcass roasted whole?
拿着一整块烤熟的动物尸体，趾高气昂地走着？
We knew nothing.
我们一无所知。
But we knew the music.
但我们了解音乐。
It came to us on the waves of Radio Stockholm mostly since that was the only station that played jazz that the Nazis didn't jam.
它是通过斯德哥尔摩广播电台的电波传到我们这里的，主要是因为那是唯一一个播放纳粹没有干扰的爵士乐的电台。
Far from Harlem, from Chicago, from New Orleans, uninformed and naive, we served the sacrament that verily knows no frontiers.
远离哈莱姆区，远离芝加哥，远离新奥尔良，我们无知而天真，服务着真正无国界的圣礼。
Then The Great War ended.
然后伟大的战争结束了。
I had the splendid feeling that finally, the beautiful age of jazz had arrived.
我有一种美妙的感觉，爵士乐的美好时代终于到来了。
My mistake.
我的错误。
It took only a lean three years before it was back underground again.
只用了三年的时间，它就又回到了地下。
New little Goebbelses started working diligently in fields that had been cleared by the old demon.
新的小戈培尔开始在被老恶魔清理过的田地里勤奋地工作。
They had their own Soviet bibles, primarily the fascistoid Music of Spiritual Poverty by V.
他们有自己的苏联圣经，主要是 V. 的法西斯主义《精神贫困音乐》。
Gorodinsky and I.
戈罗丁斯基和我。
Nestyev's Dollar Cacophony.
涅斯蒂耶夫的美元杂音。
Their vocabulary was not very different from that of the little doctor except that they were, if possible, even prouder of their ignorance.
他们的用语与小医生的用语没有太大不同，只是如果可能的话，他们甚至为自己的无知感到自豪。
They characterized jazz and jazz-inspired music by a rich assortment of derogatory adjectives, perverted, decadent, base, lying, degenerate, et cetera.
他们用各种各样的贬义形容词来描述爵士乐和受爵士乐启发的音乐，比如变态的、颓废的、卑鄙的、撒谎的、堕落的等等。
They compared the music to "the moaning in the throat of a camel" and "the hiccupping of a drunk." And although it was "the music of cannibals," it was at the same time invented by the capitalists "to deafen the ears of the Marshallized world by means of epileptic loud-mouthed compositions."
他们将这种音乐比作“骆驼喉咙里的呻吟声”和“醉汉的打嗝声”。尽管它是“食人者的音乐”，但它同时也是资本家发明的，“目的是通过令人癫痫的高声乐曲来震聋元帅化世界的耳朵”。
Unfortunately, these Orwellian masters soon found their disciples among Czechs, who, in turn, after the fashion of disciples, went even further than their preceptors, declaring wildly that jazz was aimed at "annihilating the people's own music in their souls." Finally, the aggressive theoreticians even organized a concert of model jazz pieces composed to order for the party's cultural division.
不幸的是，这些奥威尔式的大师很快就在捷克人中找到了他们的弟子，而捷克人又以弟子的方式，比他们的导师走得更远，疯狂地宣称爵士乐的目的是“消灭人们灵魂中自己的音乐”。最后，激进的理论家甚至组织了一场为党的文化部门而创作的模范爵士乐音乐会。
It was an incredible nightmare.
这是一场令人难以置信的噩梦。
Bandleader Karel Vlach, the greatest among Czech pioneers of swing, sat in the front row, going from crimson to ashen and from ashen to crimson again, probably saying a prayer in his soul to Stan Kenton.
乐队领队卡雷尔·弗拉赫（Karel Vlach）是捷克摇摆乐先驱中最伟大的人，他坐在前排，从深红色变成灰白色，再从灰白色变成深红色，可能正在向斯坦·肯顿（Stan Kenton）祈祷。
Beside him sat an unholy trinity of Soviet advisers on jazz led by, of all men, Aram Khachaturian, colleague of Prokofiev and Shostakovich, gloomy and silent.
他旁边坐着一群邪恶的苏联爵士乐顾问，其中以普罗科菲耶夫和肖斯塔科维奇的同事阿拉姆·哈恰图良为首，面色阴郁、沉默。
And next to them, a senile choir master using a hearing aid.
在他们旁边，是一位戴着助听器的老年合唱团指挥。
And yet, not even the emasculated musical monster presented to them satisfied the Soviet advisers.
然而，即使是呈现在他们面前的被阉割的音乐怪物也令苏联顾问们感到不满意。
They criticized its "instrumental makeup" and described it as "the music of a vanishing class." Finally, the old choir master rose.
他们批评它的“器乐构成”，并将其描述为“正在消失的阶级的音乐”。最后，老唱诗班指挥站了起来。
We heard him add the final chord.
我们听到他添加了最后的和弦。
"Now take the trumpet.
“现在拿起小号。
Such an optimistic-sounding instrument.
这是一个听起来乐观的工具。
And what do these jazz people do?
这些爵士乐手是做什么的？
They stuff something down its throat and right where it sounds despicable, whining like a jungle cry."
他们把一些东西塞进它的喉咙里，就在它听起来卑鄙的地方，像丛林中的哭泣一样哀嚎。”
After that, Vlach was unable to refrain from a few heretical remarks.
此后，瓦拉赫忍不住说了几句异端言论。
If they didn't give him something better than Stan Kenton, said he, he would keep on playing Stan Kenton, which is perhaps what he did in the traveling circus to which he was shortly thereafter relegated along with his entire band.
他说，如果他们没有给他比斯坦·肯顿更好的东西，他就会继续扮演斯坦·肯顿，这也许就是他在巡回马戏团中所做的，不久之后他就和他的整个乐队一起被降级到了那里。
In place of Kenton, they pushed Paul Robeson at us.
他们代替肯顿，把保罗·罗伯逊推向我们。
And how we hated that black apostle who sang of his own free will at open-air concerts in Prague at a time when they were raising the socialist leader, Milada Horakova, to the gallows, the only woman ever to be executed for political reasons in Czechoslovakia by Czechs, and at a time when the great Czech poets, some 10 years later to be rehabilitated without exception, were pining away in jails.
我们多么痛恨那个黑人使徒，他在布拉格的露天音乐会上自愿歌唱，当时他们正将社会主义领袖米拉达·霍拉科娃（Milada Horakova）送上绞刑架，她是捷克斯洛伐克唯一一位因政治原因被捷克人处决的女性，而当时伟大的捷克诗人在监狱里日渐消瘦，大约十年后毫无例外地获得平反。
Well, maybe it was wrong to hold it against Paul Robeson.
好吧，也许用它来对抗保罗·罗伯逊是错误的。
No doubt, he was acting in good faith, convinced that he was fighting for a good cause.
毫无疑问，他的行为是真诚的，坚信自己是在为美好的事业而战。
But they kept holding him up to us as an exemplary progressive jazz man, and we hated him.
但他们一直把他视为进步爵士乐典范的典范，而我们讨厌他。
May God rest his hopefully-innocent soul.
愿上帝让他无辜的灵魂安息。
The steel chariots of the Soviets swung low, and I left.
苏联人的钢铁战车低垂，我离开了。
Jazz still leads a precarious existence in the heart of European political insanity, although the battlefield has shifted elsewhere.
尽管战场已经转移到其他地方，但爵士乐仍然在欧洲政治疯狂的中心地带过着不稳定的生活。
But it is the same old familiar story.
但这是同样熟悉的老故事。
A spectre is again haunting Eastern Europe, the spectre of rock.
一个幽灵再次困扰着东欧，那就是摇滚的幽灵。
And all the reactionary powers have entered into an unholy alliance to exorcise it.
所有反动势力都结成邪恶联盟来驱除它。
Brezhnev and Husak, Suslov and Honecker, East German obscurantists and Czech police spies.
勃列日涅夫和胡萨克、苏斯洛夫和昂纳克、东德蒙昧主义者和捷克警察间谍。
Anonymous people hold underground Woodstocks in the same old obscure towns, gatherings often ruthlessly broken up by police, followed by the arrest of participants, their interrogation, their harassment, all the joys of living in a police state.
匿名人士在同样古老的不起眼的城镇举办地下伍德斯托克音乐节，聚会经常被警察无情地驱散，随后参与者被逮捕、审讯、骚扰，这是生活在警察国家的所有乐趣。
My story has drawn to a close.
我的故事已经接近尾声了。
Das Spiel ist ganz und gar verloren.
Das Spiel 是 ganz und gar verloren。
Und dennoch wird es weitergehen.
Und dennoch wrd es weitergehen。
The game is totally lost.
比赛彻底失败了。
And yet, it will go on.
然而，它还会继续下去。
The old music is dying.
古老的音乐正在消亡。
Although it has so many offspring, vigorous and vital, that will naturally be hated.
虽然它的后代如此之多，朝气蓬勃，充满活力，那自然会被人憎恨。
Still, for me, Duke is gone.
不过，对我来说，杜克已经走了。
Satchmo gone.
萨奇莫走了。
Count Basie has just barely survived a heart attack.
贝西伯爵刚刚心脏病发作，险些丧命。
Little Jimmy Rushing has gone the way of all flesh.
小吉米·拉辛已经走上了凡人之路。
"Anybody asks you, who it was sang this song, just tell them it was-- he's been here and gone." Such is the epitaph of the little five-by-five.
“如果有人问你这首歌是谁唱的，你就告诉他们是——他来过这里又走了。”这就是小五乘五的墓志铭。
Such is the epitaph I would wish for my books.
这就是我希望为我的书写的墓志铭。
An excerpt from Josef Skvorecky's essay "Red Music," which is collected in his book of essays titled Talkin' Moscow Blues.
摘自约瑟夫·斯克沃里茨基的文章《红色音乐》，该文章收录在他的散文集《谈论莫斯科蓝调》中。
It was read for us by the magnificent Ed Dixon, an actor in New York City.
伟大的纽约演员艾德·迪克森为我们朗读了这本书。
He's now appearing on Broadway in The Iceman Cometh.
他现在出现在百老汇的《冰人来了》中。
Coming up, the most innocent childhood pranks in the world, and the least innocent, and why some people have a hard time telling one from the other.
接下来，世界上最无辜的童年恶作剧和最不无辜的童年恶作剧，以及为什么有些人很难区分其中一个。
That's in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, The Kids Are Alright.
今天的节目是《孩子们都很好》。
Stories about teenagers who take things into their own hands and what to make of them, which we bring you today in the 10th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square crackdown.
今天，在天安门广场镇压十周年之际，我们为您带来了有关青少年将事情掌握在自己手中的故事以及如何利用这些故事。
We've arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, When We Were Animals.
第三幕，当我们还是动物时。
Now we turn to a different kind of student action.
现在我们转向另一种学生行动。
The high school shootings in Littleton, Colorado have sent parents and teachers looking for warning signs that the children in their lives might suddenly strike out in some way.
科罗拉多州利特尔顿的高中枪击事件促使家长和老师寻找警告信号，表明他们生活中的孩子可能会突然以某种方式罢工。
But the dividing line between normal childhood anger, normal childhood aggression, on the one hand, and social pathology, on the other, is usually not too easy to spot.
但正常的童年愤怒、正常的童年攻击性和社会病态之间的分界线通常不太容易被发现。
Paul Bravmann tells this story from his boyhood in a suburban neighborhood on the West Coast about the sheer human difficulty of spotting that line.
保罗·布拉夫曼（Paul Bravmann）讲述了他童年时在西海岸郊区的故事，讲述了人类发现这条线的难度。
There were six of us.
我们有六个人。
Most nights, we sat around the living room at Gus and Jack's house eating Nutter Butters and watching movies on the Betamax.
大多数晚上，我们坐在格斯和杰克家的客厅周围，吃坚果黄油，用 Betamax 看电影。
But there were other nights when we just had to get out and goof around.
但也有一些晚上，我们不得不出去闲逛。
It started innocently enough, Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer type of stuff.
一开始很天真，就像《哈克·费恩》和《汤姆·索亚历险记》那样。
Like we'd go swimming on my neighbor's strip of private beach.
就像我们去邻居的私人海滩游泳一样。
Or we'd play these wild games of tag in the local graveyard.
或者我们会在当地的墓地里玩这些疯狂的捉人游戏。
There was our own small version of train hopping.
我们有自己的小版本的跳火车。
We'd jump these slow-moving freight trains that carried apples, and car parts, and these fat tanks of chlorine gas through town, just ride them up and down the waterfront.
我们会跳过这些缓慢移动的货运列车，运载着苹果、汽车零件和这些装着氯气的大罐穿过城镇，只是骑着它们在海滨来回走动。
Forms of play that bent the rules a bit.
稍微改变规则的游戏形式。
That's what made it exciting.
这就是让它令人兴奋的原因。
That's what made us feel like our boyhood was the real deal.
这就是让我们觉得我们的童年是真实的。
But then the nature of our play began to change.
但后来我们比赛的性质开始发生变化。
I'm not sure why exactly.
我不确定到底为什么。
So I've been going back, trying to piece together the history of those years.
所以我一直在回溯，试图拼凑那些年的历史。
I contacted four of my former friends, Jack, Philip, Gordon, and Chris.
我联系了我以前的四个朋友，杰克、菲利普、戈登和克里斯。
Called them up out of the blue after 15 years.
15年后突然给他们打电话。
Here are Philip and Jack.
这是菲利普和杰克。
I remember once we took a garden hose and fed it through the window of a neighbor's car, a neighbor that we found somehow unsavory, and turned on the garden hose, and let 'er go.
我记得有一次，我们拿了一根花园软管，把它从邻居的车窗里喂了进去，我们发现邻居不知何故令人讨厌，然后打开花园软管，然后让她走。
So come morning time, she had a small aquarium instead of a car.
所以到了早上，她有了一个小水族馆而不是汽车。
I remember one really disgusting prank is we all urinated into a five-gallon bucket for about a week until we had rancid stew of urine.
我记得一个非常恶心的恶作剧是我们都在一个五加仑的桶里小便了大约一周，直到我们喝到了腐臭的尿液。
It was so foul, you couldn't even go near it.
实在是太肮脏了，根本不敢靠近。
But we somehow managed to put it in the back of a truck.
但我们设法把它放在卡车后面。
And we drove around the island, looking for something or someone to dump it on.
我们开车环岛一周，寻找可以倾倒的东西或人。
And we ended up finding some hapless person who was walking along the road in the middle of the night, fool that he was, and spilled this thing out the back onto him.
结果我们发现一个倒霉的人半夜在路上走，他真是个傻瓜，把这个东西从后背泼到了他身上。
That poor guy, going home reeking of piss.
那个可怜的家伙，带着尿味回家了。
Around this time, we were also getting really into pyrotechnics.
大约在这个时候，我们也真正开始接触烟火。
We graduated from fireworks to Molotov cocktails, homemade napalm, and pipe bombs.
我们从烟花升级到燃烧弹、自制凝固汽油弹和管状炸弹。
We had gotten our hands on a pair of CIA explosives manuals and just followed the government recipes.
我们拿到了中央情报局的两本爆炸物手册，并按照政府的食谱进行操作。
None of them were harder to make than a bologna sandwich.
其中没有一个比博洛尼亚三明治更难制作。
At this stage, most of our pranks were property crimes.
现阶段，我们的恶作剧大多是财产犯罪。
We blew up mailboxes.
我们炸毁了邮箱。
We tried to demolish a local monument, a real eyesore.
我们试图拆除当地的一座纪念碑，这确实是一个碍眼的东西。
Even these early pranks didn't sit too well with me, but I kept my mouth shut.
即使是这些早期的恶作剧我也不太喜欢，但我还是闭嘴了。
We had adopted this sort of punk rock pose that didn't give a rip about society or other people's feelings.
我们采用了这种朋克摇滚姿势，不会对社会或他人的感情产生任何影响。
Decent was suspect.
正派受到怀疑。
Philip remembers the following scenario.
菲利普记得下面的场景。
There was an overpass.
有一座立交桥。
Actually, it was a bridge.
事实上，那是一座桥。
And it overlooked the water.
它俯瞰着水。
And we had this idea of throwing rocks off the overpass onto passing boats.
我们想到了从立交桥上扔石头到过往船只上的想法。
So we did that, attempting to hit a boat that was passing underneath.
所以我们就这样做了，试图击中一艘从下面经过的船。
And I don't even know if we hit it or not.
我什至不知道我们是否击中了它。
We couldn't tell because it was so far down.
我们无法判断，因为距离太远了。
But when we started arguing about whether that was a good idea or not, I was telling Gordon, "I just have a feeling.
但当我们开始争论这是否是一个好主意时，我告诉戈登，“我只是有一种感觉。
This guy working on his boat every weekend to try to make it polished and beautiful.
这个家伙每个周末都在他的船上工作，试图让它变得光滑漂亮。
And takes it out for an afternoon, and we drop a rock on it.
然后把它拿出来呆了一个下午，然后我们在上面扔了一块石头。
That's just evil." And Gordon looking at me and saying, "Philip, I'm really concerned that you care at all about this person.
这简直就是邪恶。”戈登看着我说：“菲利普，我真的很担心你是否关心这个人。
I'm concerned that you have empathy for this person."
我担心你对这个人有同情心。”
One point I should make is that I'd never really had friends before.
我应该指出的一点是，我以前从未真正有过朋友。
These were my first friends, and I was glad to have them.
他们是我的第一批朋友，我很高兴有他们。
Didn't know how I got them, but intended to keep them.
我不知道如何得到它们，但打算保留它们。
Once the pranking started, there was this slow pull, this strong, slow pull towards the most extreme acts we could imagine.
一旦恶作剧开始，就会有这种缓慢的拉力，这种强烈的、缓慢的拉力，导致我们可以想象到的最极端的行为。
It was like the pranks had their own logic that pulled us further and further.
那些恶作剧就像有它们自己的逻辑一样，把我们越拉越远。
It starts out with these common, little pranks that are fun and creative.
它从这些有趣且富有创意的常见小恶作剧开始。
And then, for some reason, it gets darker.
然后，由于某种原因，天色变暗了。
And we are pushing each other further.
我们正在互相推动。
We had done some pretty bad stuff.
我们做了一些非常糟糕的事情。
And it was just this one-upmanship attitude, where we were just trying to think of what would be the next bad thing that we could do.
这就是一种高人一等的态度，我们只是试图思考我们可以做的下一件坏事是什么。
And Chris came up with this idea.
克里斯想出了这个主意。
And he said, "You know, guys, I got an idea." Oh, when you-- thinking about the fact that we did these things is just-- Chris looked at us and said, "There's a black family that lives down the street.
他说：“你们知道，伙计们，我有一个主意。”哦，当你想到我们做了这些事情的事实时，克里斯看着我们说：“街上住着一个黑人家庭。
Let's go to their house and write 'nigger' on their door."
我们去他们家吧，在他们的门上写上‘黑鬼’。”
And none of us were racist.
我们都不是种族主义者。
And none of us were white supremists.
我们都不是白人至上主义者。
And none of us had any political motivation about anything like that.
我们中没有人对类似的事情有任何政治动机。
It just seemed like just the most anti-social thing we could do.
这似乎是我们能做的最反社会的事情。
I know this sounds god awful.
我知道这听起来太糟糕了。
Of course, it does.
当然，确实如此。
This time it was Gordon's turn to try and squash a really bad idea.
这次轮到戈登尝试压制一个非常糟糕的主意了。
He stood up to Chris, which was almost inconceivable because he was like our alpha male.
他反抗克里斯，这几乎是不可想象的，因为他就像我们的雄性领袖。
And Chris backed down.
克里斯退缩了。
But Chris was the driving force behind our biggest property crime, the local power plant.
但克里斯是我们最大的财产犯罪——当地发电厂——背后的推动者。
It happened one night when the five of us were in Gordon's pickup truck.
事情发生在一天晚上，当时我们五个人坐在戈登的皮卡车里。
In the back were a couple lengths of heavy chain.
后面有几条重链。
Gordon and Jack tell the story.
戈登和杰克讲述了这个故事。
Chris was in the back of the truck.
克里斯坐在卡车后面。
And he saw these chains.
他看到了这些锁链。
And as we were driving by the power plant, he had the idea that we should go and try to blow it up.
当我们开车经过发电厂时，他想到我们应该去尝试炸掉它。
I remember Chris took the chain, which was the bigger of the two, and looped it in half and just tried to wing it over the fence at one of the transformers.
我记得克里斯拿起那条链子，这是两条链子中较大的一条，然后将其对成两半，然后试图将其飞过其中一个变形金刚的栅栏。
And honestly, I didn't think that-- I thought this was a futile effort.
老实说，我不认为——我认为这是徒劳的努力。
I didn't think that it was going to do anything.
我不认为它会做任何事情。
I couldn't have been looking directly at it when it connected, when the chain connected with the transformer.
当它连接时，当链条与变压器连接时，我无法直视它。
And I was blinded for a minute there.
我在那里愣了一分钟。
And the next thing I noticed was how dark it was in that already dark, rural area.
接下来我注意到的是，在那个已经很黑的乡村地区，天有多黑。
But it was so dark because every street light was out.
但天很黑，因为所有路灯都灭了。
Every house light was out.
每栋房子的灯都灭了。
It was real dark.
天真的很黑。
That's when the fear set in on me.
就在那时，恐惧降临在我身上。
I thought, "I really want to get out of here because whatever we've done, it's serious.
我想：“我真的很想离开这里，因为无论我们做了什么，都是严肃的。
And this is really bad."
这真的很糟糕。”
All I remember is Chris begging us to get going.
我只记得克里斯恳求我们走。
"Let's get going." I don't remember anyone saying that they felt bad for having done untold-- I don't know how much damage-- how much that would have cost to repair.
“我们走吧。”我不记得有人说过他们因做了不为人知的事情而感到难过——我不知道造成了多少损害——修复起来需要多少钱。
That must have been huge.
那一定是巨大的。
But yeah, I certainly don't remember anybody expressing any remorse for it.
但是，是的，我当然不记得有人对此表示过任何悔恨。
And the whole way back, we were just talking about how crazy it was, and how people on life support systems could be suffocating, and that kind of thing.
一路上，我们都在谈论这有多疯狂，以及依靠生命维持系统的人们如何会窒息，诸如此类的事情。
It was exciting.
这很令人兴奋。
I point out here that most of us weren't seen as problem kids.
我在这里指出，我们大多数人并不被视为问题孩子。
When I wasn't out with my friends, I collected Chinese stamps, went to Hebrew school, practiced the viola, not that a sociopath can't play the viola.
当我不和朋友出去的时候，我收集中国邮票，去希伯来语学校，练习中提琴，并不是说反社会者不能拉中提琴。
Then there came this point when their talk about pranks, if you could still call them that, shifted from property to people.
然后到了这个时候，他们谈论的恶作剧（如果你还可以这样称呼他们的话）从财产转向了人。
This was the beginning of the end of us as a group of friends.
这是我们作为一群朋友结束的开始。
Here are Philip and Jack.
这是菲利普和杰克。
We were trying to decide one evening what would be our next step in what we were going to be doing violent-wise.
一天晚上，我们试图决定我们将采取的暴力行动的下一步是什么。
And objects-- destroying public property or private property was just not exciting enough anymore.
还有物体——破坏公共财产或私人财产已经不够令人兴奋了。
And so we went out one night.
所以我们出去了一晚。
We were driving around downtown.
我们开车在市中心转悠。
And we saw this staggering drunk.
我们看到这个醉得惊人的人。
And Chris got out of the car with his Taser.
克里斯拿着泰瑟枪下了车。
And he was acting really sweet to this guy and just chatting with him, being chummy.
他对这个家伙表现得很友善，只是和他聊天，很亲密。
And the guy was smiling.
那家伙正在微笑。
And then Chris took the Taser out of his pocket or wherever and showed it to him.
然后克里斯从口袋里或任何地方拿出泰瑟枪给他看。
And he said, "Look at this.
他说：“看看这个。
Do you know what this is?" The guy shook his head.
你知道这是什么吗？”那家伙摇摇头。
"Well, it's for doing this." And he put the Taser on the guy's arm or something.
“嗯，就是为了做这件事。”然后他把泰瑟枪放在那家伙的手臂上什么的。
And it didn't knock him down.
但这并没有击倒他。
But it was, obviously, extremely painful.
但显然，这是极其痛苦的。
And the guy shrieked and pulled away.
那家伙尖叫着逃开了。
There was another time when Chris attacked a vagrant that mirrored a scene from the film A Clockwork Orange, which we watched and rewatched during those years.
还有一次，克里斯袭击了一名流浪汉，这与电影《发条橙》中的场景相呼应，那些年我们反复观看了这部电影。
He kicked him.
他踢了他一脚。
I remember.
我记得。
And he did it in this overly dramatic way.
他以这种过于戏剧化的方式做到了这一点。
And I remember laughing.
我记得我笑了。
We were all exhilarated, and we were all laughing.
我们都很兴奋，我们都笑了。
I think we were in awe of what we had done.
我想我们对我们所做的事情感到敬畏。
But because we didn't know how to talk about it, we were just laughing.
但因为不知道如何谈论，所以我们只是笑。
And then all of a sudden, I realized how twisted all that was.
然后突然间，我意识到这一切是多么扭曲。
I was there in the car for the first of these incidents.
第一次发生这些事件时我就在车里。
I remember feeling trapped.
我记得我有一种被困住的感觉。
I remember wanting out.
我记得我想出去。
That was it for me.
对我来说就是这样。
I dumped my friends.
我抛弃了我的朋友。
I was surprised to hear it wasn't long after that everyone left for the same reason.
我很惊讶地发现不久之后每个人都因为同样的原因离开了。
The strange thing was that each of us thought he was the only one who reacted adversely to this new violence, that the others somehow enjoyed it.
奇怪的是，我们每个人都认为他是唯一对这种新的暴力行为做出不利反应的人，而其他人则以某种方式享受它。
When I started to hear about the Littleton shootings and when I started to hear about the shooters, the kind of kids they were, I found myself thinking about this ugly slice of my personal past, things I hadn't thought about in years.
当我开始听说利特尔顿枪击事件，当我开始听说枪手，以及他们是什么样的孩子时，我发现自己开始思考我个人过去的丑陋片段，那些我多年来从未想过的事情。
I found myself asking questions about who we were exactly.
我发现自己在问自己到底是谁。
Here's Jack.
这是杰克。
I turn on the TV, and I saw what was happening at Littleton and the descriptions of the kids that were coming out to the media were-- I remember thinking, "My god, that was us."
我打开电视，看到利特尔顿发生的事情，以及媒体对孩子们的描述——我记得当时想，“天哪，那是我们。”
This is Philip.
这是菲利普.
Philip When I first heard about Littleton, there were these kids in trench coats.
菲利普：当我第一次听说利特尔顿时，这些孩子都穿着风衣。
And I wore a trench coat.
我穿了一件风衣。
And there were these kids that called themselves The Trench Coat Mafia.
这些孩子自称为“风衣黑手党”。
And I don't think we had a name for ourselves, but we had that attitude.
我认为我们没有自己的名字，但我们有这种态度。
And I won't go so far as to say, "It could have been me." Because I never would have killed anybody.
我不会说“可能是我。”因为我永远不会杀任何人。
Maybe.
或许。
Definitely, I remember thinking that it's way too close to home.
当然，我记得我认为它离家太近了。
Philip.
菲利普.
Philip I don't think there's any difference between what they did in Littleton and what we were doing.
菲利普：我认为他们在利特尔顿所做的事情和我们所做的事情没有任何区别。
When Eric Harris decided to take a gun to school and kill his classmates, he was thinking the exact same way we were when we decided to stay out at night and mash people's mailboxes.
当埃里克·哈里斯决定带枪去学校杀死他的同学时，他的想法和我们决定晚上呆在外面捣毁人们的邮箱时的想法完全相同。
Or when we decided to take that monument and destroy it.
或者当我们决定占领并摧毁那座纪念碑时。
It was that same anger, inarticulate anger.
就是同样的愤怒，无法言喻的愤怒。
Here's Gordon.
这是戈登。
Gordon I guess in some sense, what we were doing wasn't all that different.
戈登：我想从某种意义上说，我们所做的事情并没有那么不同。
They took it way further, way, way further than we would.
他们比我们走得更远、更远、更远。
What they did was inconceiveable to us.
他们的所作所为让我们难以想象。
But I suppose, if the circumstances in my life were a little different, I suppose that I could have walked over that line.
但我想，如果我生活中的情况稍有不同，我想我是可以跨过那条线的。
But the circumstances of my life weren't that extreme.
但我生活中的情况并没有那么极端。
How are we supposed to think about Littleton?
我们应该如何看待利特尔顿？
And how are my friends and I supposed to think about the awful things we did as kids?
我和我的朋友们应该如何思考我们小时候做过的可怕的事情呢？
I usually hear people talk in two different ways about the kinds of trouble teenagers get into.
我经常听到人们用两种不同的方式谈论青少年遇到的麻烦。
Either they see it as a kind of innocent boys-will-be-boys joyride.
要么他们将其视为一种天真无邪的男孩们的欢乐之旅。
Or they see it as social pathology.
或者他们将其视为社会病态。
And they feel they have come down on one side or the other.
他们感觉自己已经在某一方面堕落了。
Based on personal experience, I think I can say, it's a little of both.
根据个人经验，我想我可以说，两者兼而有之。
Paul Bravmann is a freelance writer living in New York City.
保罗·布拉夫曼 (Paul Bravmann) 是一位居住在纽约市的自由作家。
[MUSIC - "TOO SWEET TO DIE" BY THE WACO BROTHERS]
[音乐 - 韦科兄弟的《Too Sweet to Die》]
Act Four, When We Were Angels.
第四幕，当我们还是天使时。
Let us end our program today with an example of the most innocent childhood prank, the most innocent student uprising imaginable.
让我们以一个最无辜的童年恶作剧、最无辜的学生起义的例子来结束今天的节目。
Hillary Frank is in graduate school, studying drawing at the New York Academy of Art.
希拉里·弗兰克 (Hillary Frank) 正在读研究生，在纽约艺术学院学习绘画。
A few months ago, she mailed our radio show a story that she wanted to get onto the program.
几个月前，她向我们的广播节目邮寄了一个她想加入该节目的故事。
She had recorded the interviews using her microcassette answering machine.
她用微型录音答录机记录了采访。
And then she edited the interviews and recorded the parts that she said, her script, by dubbing and recording onto her shiny, red boombox.
然后她编辑采访并录制她所说的部分，即她的剧本，通过配音和录制到她闪亮的红色音箱上。
For all the crude sound quality, the story sounded remarkably like a story on This American Life.
尽管音质很粗糙，但这个故事听起来非常像《美国生活》中的故事。
But for one reason or another, and time considerations, that unsolicited story never made it onto the radio.
但出于某种原因以及时间考虑，这个不请自来的故事从未出现在广播中。
This week, though, she has put together another story using the same style, which we added music to here at the radio station to make it fully sound like a story on our show.
不过，本周，她用相同的风格整理了另一个故事，我们在广播电台添加了音乐，使其听起来完全像我们节目中的故事。
It is about an incident which happened to her back when she was an undergraduate.
这是关于她本科时发生在她背上的一件事。
Tufts University is a pretty straight place.
塔夫茨大学是一个非常直接的地方。
Entertainment for most people means fraternity keggers.
对于大多数人来说，娱乐意味着兄弟会聚会。
It's not the sort of place you'd expect people to watch a guy sitting on another guy's shoulders pretending to be a giant.
这不是那种你会期望人们看到一个人坐在另一个人的肩膀上假装巨人的地方。
It happened by accident in 1994.
事情发生在1994年的一次偶然中。
My friend, Scott, was the top half.
我的朋友斯科特是上半部分。
It was beginning of the school year.
那是学年的开始。
And we were bored one night.
有一天晚上我们很无聊。
And we decided to go up to the quad.
我们决定去四方院。
And I guess, basically, Jeff got up on someone's back.
我想，基本上，杰夫是站在某人的背上的。
And he started yelling and screaming about how giant he was and how magnificent he was.
他开始大喊大叫，说他是多么巨大，多么伟大。
And I think, actually, right after that, I might have gotten on someone's back and said, "Yeah, I'm also giant."
我想，实际上，在那之后，我可能会骑在某人的背上说：“是的，我也是巨人。”
And I guess that really struck a chord in me.
我想这确实引起了我的共鸣。
I thought that was pretty amusing.
我觉得这很有趣。
I guess I thought a lot about it.
我想我想了很多。
It actually did start me thinking along a particular path.
它确实让我开始沿着一条特定的道路思考。
Scott talked about the idea one night in the dining hall.
一天晚上，斯科特在餐厅里谈到了这个想法。
The next day, on the way to class, he saw signs all over campus that said in bold print, "I am nine feet tall.
第二天，在去上课的路上，他看到校园里到处都是标语，上面用粗体字写着：“我身高九英尺。
Come see Giantman.
快来看看巨人吧
8:00 PM on the quad."
晚上 8:00 在广场上。”
Scott had no idea who put them up.
斯科特不知道是谁放的。
He learned later that the signs were posted by a guy who had overheard him talking at dinner.
后来他了解到，这些标语是由一个无意中听到他在晚餐时说话的人张贴的。
Scott decided he would go to the quad at the specified time and undertake the challenge.
斯科特决定在指定时间前往四方场地接受挑战。
To pull this off, he would need to create a character and a costume for the giant.
为了实现这一目标，他需要为巨人创造一个角色和一套服装。
He gave Giantman a booming voice.
他给巨人曼发出洪亮的声音。
I don't even know exactly.
我什至不太清楚。
It was something like, "Behold, I am giant." Not even loud, but just weird and suggesting man-ness in a vague way.
就像是，“看哪，我是巨人。”声音不大，但很奇怪，以一种模糊的方式暗示着男子气概。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Scott asked his tallest friend, Podo, to act as Giantman's legs.
斯科特请他最高的朋友波多充当巨人的腿。
They grabbed some props before heading up to the quad, a blanket to wrap around their middle to hide Podo, a long wooden staff, and a black, curly wig, like the guys in Kiss.
他们在前往四方阵前拿了一些道具，一条毯子围在中间以隐藏波多，一根长木杖，还有一顶黑色卷曲假发，就像《吻》中的人一样。
We had picked a point in the bushes, Podo and I.
波多和我在灌木丛中选了一个点。
We really couldn't see what was going on out on the quad.
我们真的看不到四边形上发生了什么。
And so the time came, and I got on his shoulders, basically, and tied the blanket around my waist.
时间到了，我基本上站到了他的肩膀上，然后把毯子绑在了我的腰上。
And we walked out.
然后我们就走了出去。
And I remember there just being maybe 10 people, 15 people.
我记得大概只有 10 个人、15 个人。
And I remember them being way on the other side and running.
我记得他们在另一边跑着。
What was so ridiculous about it was there was just a handful of people, and they were so spread out.
可笑的是，人只有寥寥几人，而且还那么分散。
But they were all coming towards me.
但他们都朝我这边过来。
It was like, what the hell am I doing here?
就像，我到底在这里做什么？
They decided to plan another Giantman appearance the following week.
他们决定计划在下周再次亮相巨人队。
They posted more signs and told everyone they knew, "Go see Giantman.
他们张贴了更多标语，并告诉他们认识的每个人，“去看巨人。
It'll blow your mind." Word spread quickly.
这会让你大吃一惊。”消息很快传开。
And amazingly, they were able to keep it secret that they, themselves, were Giantman.
令人惊讶的是，他们能够保守自己是巨人的秘密。
Most students believed there was an actual nine-foot man come to Tufts for some mysterious reason.
大多数学生相信有一个真正的九英尺高的男人出于某种神秘的原因来到塔夫茨。
I was friends with these guys, and I didn't even know yet.
我和这些人是朋友，我什至还不知道。
At the next appearance, almost 200 people were waiting for Giantman and chanting his name.
在下一次出场时，近200人等待着巨人并高喊着他的名字。
It was like a political rally.
这就像一场政治集会。
Some of them carried signs that said things like, "We love you Giantman.
其中一些人举着标语，上面写着“我们爱你巨人。
Why are you here?" "Save us from ourselves, Giantman." "Nine feet of loving." And "Giant freak, go home."
你怎么在这里？” “救救我们吧，巨人。” “九尺爱。”还有“巨人怪物，回家吧。”
Giantman made his way onto the quad, and the quad went wild.
巨人冲上四方阵，四方阵疯狂了。
People came rushing out of their dorms to see what was going on.
人们纷纷从宿舍里跑出来，想看看发生了什么事。
When Giantman reached his fans, he made a small speech.
当巨人侠到达他的粉丝面前时，他发表了简短的讲话。
"I am giant," he boomed.
“我是巨人，”他大声说道。
"I am huge, and I have brought you butterscotch." He then threw cellophane-wrapped butterscotch to the crowd, and they dove for it.
“我很大，我给你带来了奶油糖果。”然后，他向人群扔了玻璃纸包裹的奶油糖果，他们纷纷扑向它。
On the walk up, I just stopped in the bookstore and saw some candy.
在路上，我在书店停下来，看到了一些糖果。
And I was trying to think, "What was the most ridiculous candy that nobody every ate?" There was butterscotch there in some kind of cellophane wrapper.
我试着想，“没人吃过的最可笑的糖果是什么？”那里有某种玻璃纸包装纸里的奶油糖。
It looked like nobody ever was eating it.
看起来好像从来没有人吃过它。
Butterscotch became Giantman's trademark treat.
奶油糖果成为巨人队的标志性美食。
When he ran out of things to say, he would revert to throwing candy.
当他无话可说时，他就会转而扔糖果。
The fact of the matter is Giantman had very little to tell the Tufts community other than "My strength is amazing.
事实上，巨人除了“我的力量是惊人的”之外，没有什么可以告诉塔夫茨社区的。
My girth is enormous.
我的腰围很大。
And my height is unequaled." He would brag like this for only two or three minutes and then retreat back to the bushes.
而且我的身高是无与伦比的。”他只会这样吹牛两三分钟，然后就退到灌木丛里。
Problem was, Podo would get really tired really quickly.
问题是，波多很快就会感到疲倦。
He walked out really fast.
他走出去的速度真快。
He almost was running out.
他快要耗尽了。
And he got really tired and didn't even know where he was going.
他真的很累，甚至不知道自己要去哪里。
It must have just looked absolutely idiotic.
它看起来一定很愚蠢。
So he couldn't see?
所以他看不见？
Scott Yeah, his eyes were covered.
斯科特 是的，他的眼睛被遮住了。
I remember I would sit on his head, and I would put both my hands on his head, kind of give him direction by maybe forcing his head in a certain direction.
我记得我会坐在他的头上，我会把双手放在他的头上，通过强迫他的头朝某个方向来给他指明方向。
Giantman became a phenomenon.
巨人成为一种现象。
Enthusiasts wore "I love Giantman" t-shirts, which had silhouettes of a huge man with a bulging middle.
爱好者们穿着写着“我爱巨人”的T恤，上面有一个腰部鼓起的巨大男人的轮廓。
There was once a parade across campus with noise makers and a trumpet to greet him.
曾经有一次穿过校园的游行，有噪音发生器和喇叭来迎接他。
Another time, there were torch jugglers and bodyguards.
还有一次，还有火炬杂耍者和保镖。
Letters were written to the student newspaper pro and con Giantman.
人们写信给学生报纸赞成和反对《巨人》。
Teachers were mentioning Giantman in class.
老师们在课堂上提到了巨人。
There was a discussion in an ethics course in which people who hadn't seen Giantman argued about whether or not we were exploiting a freak of nature.
在伦理学课程中，没有看过《巨人族》的人们争论我们是否在利用自然的畸形现象。
Do you think that if Giantman had been an actual political cause that you would have gotten such a big turnout and there would have been such a big deal about it?
你认为如果《巨人传》是一个真正的政治事业，你会得到如此大的投票率，并且会有如此大的影响吗？
Yeah, I doubt that.
是的，我对此表示怀疑。
That's one of the things, I think, that was a big draw about it was that it didn't have any meaning.
我认为，这就是它的一大吸引力，那就是它没有任何意义。
And for whatever reason, people were really drawn to that.
不管出于什么原因，人们确实被它所吸引。
If it had meaning or was trying to pitch some idea or something, it would seem less real, I think.
我认为，如果它有意义或试图提出某种想法或其他东西，它就会显得不那么真实。
There was really something fundamentally interesting and truthful about Giantman, I guess.
我想，《巨人传》确实有一些本质上有趣和真实的东西。
There is something that people are drawn to that absurdity for whatever reason.
无论出于何种原因，人们都会被这种荒谬所吸引。
By the end, Giantman's following had grown to about 350 people.
到最后，Giantman 的追随者已增至约 350 人。
I don't think any of us have had any experience like it since.
我认为从那以后我们中没有人有过类似的经历。
When you're a student, it still feels like something exciting might happen at any moment.
当你还是一名学生时，你仍然会感觉随时可能发生令人兴奋的事情。
Life feels full of all this potential.
生活充满了所有这些潜力。
But when you get out of school, that potential just doesn't seem to be there.
但当你离开学校时，这种潜力似乎就不存在了。
What do you know now?
你现在知道什么了？
Scott Well, I'm an engineer.
斯科特：嗯，我是一名工程师。
What kind of engineer?
什么样的工程师？
Scott Computer engineer, designing computer circuits and things like that.
斯科特 计算机工程师，设计计算机电路等。
And do you have Giantman-like experiences today?
今天你有类似巨人的经历吗？
No, not really.
不，不是真的。
I'm not parading around, talking about my magnificence.
我不是到处炫耀，谈论我的辉煌。
There's actually a recording of Giantman's final public appearance.
实际上有巨人最后一次公开露面的录音。
There was a band called The Electric Fun Machine that dedicated a song to him.
有一支名为“The Electric Fun Machine”的乐队专门为他献了一首歌。
And he appeared with them at a concert on the quad.
他和他们一起出现在广场上的一场音乐会上。
[SINGING] The Giantman.
[唱歌]巨人。
Giantman.
巨人.
Nine feet tall.
九英尺高。
Giantman.
巨人.
Students of Tufts, fear me not for I am the benevolent Giantman.
塔夫茨大学的学生们，不要害怕我，因为我是仁慈的巨人。
I have come to show love.
我是来秀恩爱的。
As a symbol of my benevolence, I shall, once again, shower you with--
作为我仁慈的象征，我将再次向你洒下——
And then Giantman threw butterscotch candy.
然后巨人扔了奶油糖果。
Hillary Frank in New York.
希拉里·弗兰克在纽约。
Credits Ira Glass A program note.
致谢 Ira Glass 程序说明。
Producer Alix Spiegel leaves our program today, and producer Nancy Updike goes to half-time for a few months, and then she will also leave, which means that this program is the last one made by the team that has done most episodes of This American Life since it began in 1995, the team of Elise, and Nancy, and our third producer, Julie Snyder.
制片人阿利克斯·斯皮格尔今天离开了我们的节目，制片人南希·厄普代克暂停了几个月，然后她也将离开，这意味着这个节目是自 1995 年开始制作《美国生活》大部分剧集的团队（Elise 和 Nancy 团队以及我们的第三位制片人朱莉·斯奈德团队）制作的最后一档节目。
For me, I have to say, it is like knowing that Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodman will never play together again.
对我来说，我不得不说，这就像知道迈克尔·乔丹、斯科蒂·皮蓬和丹尼斯·罗德曼永远不会再一起打球一样。
They are each amazing in their own way.
他们每个人都以自己的方式令人惊叹。
And they are more amazing together.
而且他们在一起更令人惊奇。
This show that you hear on the radio every week is not mine.
您每周在广播中听到的这个节目不是我的。
It is ours, the four of ours.
这是我们的，我们四个人的。
I'm the front man, but the sensibility of the show is the four of ours.
我是领头羊，但节目的感性是我们四个人的。
As you might expect, getting a radio program on the air each week is a little battle.
正如您所料，每周播出一个广播节目是一场小战斗。
And we feel about each other the way that any people who have been together in the trenches feel, namely, bonded for life.
我们对彼此的感觉就像任何一起在战壕里生活过的人一样，即终生紧密相连。
We created this thing together, this show that has become so much larger than the sum of its parts.
我们一起创造了这个东西，这个节目已经变得比其各个部分的总和要大得多。
And we will always have that together.
我们将永远在一起。
Nancy and Elise are both skilled reporters.
南希和埃莉斯都是熟练的记者。
You will hear them here and, I expect, on other public radio shows, though I have to say, I will miss the time that we have had together very much.
你会在这里听到他们的声音，我希望在其他公共广播节目中也能听到他们的声音，尽管我不得不说，我会非常怀念我们在一起度过的时光。
It has been a very unusual and a very lucky thing, this time we've had together.
这次我们能在一起，这是一件非常不寻常的事情，也是一件非常幸运的事情。
So This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] I'm Ira Glass.
[资金来源] 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。