126: Do-Gooders - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #126 | April 12, 2002 126: Do-Gooders Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 126 集 | 2002 年 4 月 12 日 126：行善者 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life .
序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Start from the top?
从顶部开始？
I needed a driver.
我需要一名司机。
I couldn't drive.
我不会开车。
The problem was I wanted to have my same life, my same nice little suburban, get in the car and drive everywhere life.
问题是我想要过同样的生活，同样漂亮的小郊区，开车去任何地方生活。
Brigid was going blind in mid-life with a kid.
布里吉德在中年时带着一个孩子失明了。
She had stuff to do.
她还有事要做。
So she took out an ad in the paper and hired somebody to drive her around, a guy named Harry.
于是她在报纸上登了一则广告，雇了一个叫哈利的人开车送她到处走走。
Nice guy.
好人。
The first day, he picks her up in a van, takes her to her daughter's school at the end of the school day.
第一天，他用一辆面包车接她，放学后带她去女儿的学校。
They wait In line with the other parents.
他们和其他家长一起排队等候。
And Harry jumped out and started with his whisk broom.
哈利跳了出来，拿起他的扫帚。
Opened up the van, opened up on both sides and whisk brooming and tidying it up.
打开货车，两边都打开，扫帚、清理。
On errands, Harry would park in the handicapped space.
哈利出差时会把车停在残疾人专用停车位上。
Or if that wasn't available, he'd park on the grass to save Brigid a few steps.
或者，如果没有的话，他会把车停在草地上，让布里吉特少走几步。
She asked him to take her to the grocery store.
她请他带她去杂货店。
Anyway, so then we get out and always he'd be wanting to help me up by the elbows.
不管怎样，我们出去后，他总是想用手肘扶我起来。
He wanted to help.
他想帮忙。
And he says to me as we went into the grocery, here, let me get the basket for you.
当我们走进杂货店时，他对我说，在这里，让我给你拿篮子。
Let me carry your-- and I said, no, no no. I'm fine.
让我带着你的——我说，不，不，不。我很好。
And oh, he says, please.
哦，他说，拜托。
Oh, let me.
哦，让我来吧。
I'm here to be of service for you.
我是来为您服务的。
And he kind of shadowed me throughout the grocery store.
他在整个杂货店里都跟着我。
And it was just very, again, a lot of that roar-roar fight back.
这又是一次非常多的咆哮反击。
And then this awful feeling of that he's just trying to help me.
然后这种可怕的感觉就是他只是想帮助我。
What I he really wanted was to help somebody out.
我真正想要的是帮助别人。
When you do something for somebody else, it always seems so simple.
当你为别人做某事时，它总是显得那么简单。
You just want to help.
你只是想帮忙。
But in fact, you're forming a relationship with that person.
但事实上，你正在与那个人建立关系。
And it's just as complicated as any relationship you can have.
它就像你可以拥有的任何关系一样复杂。
And like any other relationship, if you're not attentive to what the person actually wants, it's easy to blunder, which is why doing good for others is so difficult.
就像任何其他关系一样，如果你不关注对方真正想要的东西，就很容易犯错误，这就是为什么为他人做好事如此困难。
In certain religions, the question of how to do good is a kind of obsession.
在某些宗教中，如何行善的问题是一种痴迷。
Among my people, your Jews, it was traditionally a very big deal.
对于我的人民，你们的犹太人来说，这在传统上是一件非常大的事情。
In fact, one way to understand all Jewish law is as a set of instructions for doing good in the world.
事实上，理解所有犹太法律的一种方法是将其视为一套在世界上行善的指示。
A set of instructions, I should say, so complicated, spanning so many centuries and thinkers, that in the 12th century, a philosopher named Maimonides actually made a crib sheet summarizing it all by listing the eight different ways that a person can do good for others.
我应该说，这是一套如此复杂的指令，跨越了如此多的世纪和思想家，以至于在12世纪，一位名叫迈蒙尼德的哲学家实际上制作了一张婴儿床，列出了一个人可以为他人做好事的八种不同方式来总结这一切。
He listed in order of preference, from least desirable to the most.
他按照偏好顺序列出，从最不合意到最合意。
The lowest level of doing for others is giving grudgingly.
为他人做事的最低层次是勉强给予。
Then there's giving less than you should but giving it cheerfully.
然后，付出的比你应该付出的要少，但要高兴地付出。
Then giving after being asked.
然后在被要求后给予。
Then giving before being asked.
然后在被要求之前给予。
And it continues on up through the most meritorious way to give, which is, tellingly, enabling the person you're helping to become self-sufficient so they don't need the help anymore.
它通过最有价值的给予方式继续下去，也就是说，让你正在帮助的人变得自给自足，这样他们就不再需要帮助了。
Today on our program, stories of people trying to do good and why they often fail and why they occasionally succeed.
今天在我们的节目中，讲述了人们试图行善的故事，以及他们为什么经常失败以及为什么他们偶尔会成功。
Our program today in just two acts.
我们今天的节目只有两幕。
Act One, You Can't Go Home Again, the story of two people trying to restore a small town to its former splendor and how the biggest obstacle turned out to be the people whose lives they wanted to improve.
第一幕《你不能再回家》讲述了两个人试图让一个小镇恢复往日辉煌的故事，而最大的障碍却是他们想要改善生活的人们。
Act Two, Humanitarians.
第二幕，人道主义者。
I chat with writer Philip Gourevitch about his encounters with international do-gooders, about Rwanda and Kosovo, about genocidal murders, and about Rick in Casablanca.
我与作家菲利普·古雷维奇（Philip Gourevitch）谈论了他与国际社会改良者的遭遇、卢旺达和科索沃、种族灭绝谋杀以及卡萨布兰卡的里克。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One.
第一幕。
You Can't Go Home Again.
你不能再回家了。
You drive through cotton fields to get here, down old Highway 61 through Southeast Missouri.
您开车穿过棉田到达这里，沿着老 61 号高速公路穿过密苏里州东南部。
The nearest big town is Sikeston, population 18,000, 20 minutes away.
最近的大城镇是赛克斯顿 (Sikeston)，人口 18,000，距离酒店 20 分钟路程。
When you drive into Canalou, Missouri, there's a sign that says, "population 319." And then just beyond it, another sign saying, "pavement ends." Then it's mostly gravel roads and trailer homes.
当您开车进入密苏里州卡纳卢时，会看到一个标志，上面写着“人口 319”。然后就在它后面，另一个标志写着“人行道结束”。然后主要是碎石路和拖车房。
The businesses on Main Street aren't just closed, they're gone, torn down decades ago.
主街上的企业不仅关门了，而且几十年前就已经消失、被拆除了。
The movie theater, the restaurants, the grocery stores.
电影院、餐馆、杂货店。
People used to come here from all the surrounding towns.
人们过去从周围的城镇来到这里。
And when Kenny Wharton and his wife Jackie talk about what it was like in Canalou when they were kids, it's like they're describing a dream, a town in an old, black and white Hollywood film.
当肯尼·沃顿和他的妻子杰基谈论他们小时候在卡纳卢的情况时，就像他们在描述一个梦想，一部古老的黑白好莱坞电影中的一座小镇。
This was the place on a Saturday.
这是星期六的地方。
You had a hard time finding a place to park if you had a car.
如果你有车的话，你很难找到停车的地方。
And we had everything in this little town.
我们在这个小镇上拥有了一切。
And people would come to town to visit.
人们会来镇上参观。
Old men would be playing Checkers up and down the streets.
老人们会在街上玩跳棋。
And the women would be visiting and kids would be playing.
女人会来拜访，孩子们会玩耍。
We played until 2:00 in the morning, we'd play.
我们一直玩到凌晨2:00，我们才会玩。
And us younger kids would be asleep in the back seat of the car because we would give out.
而我们这些年幼的孩子会在汽车后座上睡着，因为我们会放弃。
When I pulled into Canalou to talk to the Whartons, a four year old who lives next door to them, in a muddy shirt, mud on his face, no shoes in the cold, was playing in the drainage ditch.
当我把车开进卡纳卢和沃顿一家交谈时，住在他们隔壁的一个四岁的孩子正在排水沟里玩耍，他穿着一件沾满泥的衬衫，脸上沾满泥，在寒冷中没有穿鞋。
These ditches line both sides of every street in town because there's no sewage system here.
这些沟渠排列在镇上每条街道的两侧，因为这里没有污水处理系统。
Most people live in trailers not regular houses, and some people empty their septic tanks straight into the ditches where kids play.
大多数人住在拖车里，而不是普通的房子里，有些人把化粪池直接倒进孩子们玩耍的沟渠里。
The day I arrived, it had rained.
我到达的那天，下雨了。
The ground was soft, muddy everywhere.
地面松软，到处都是泥泞。
An adult who had let this four year old touch her face a few weeks back had gotten a rash on her face that even the doctors up in St. Louis couldn't identify or cure.
几周前，一名成年人让这个四岁的孩子触摸她的脸，她的脸上出现了皮疹，即使是圣路易斯的医生也无法识别或治愈。
This is the town that Kenny and Jackie couldn't wait to get back to.
这就是肯尼和杰基迫不及待想要回到的小镇。
Anyway, this town was a good little town to grow up in.
不管怎样，这个小镇是一个很适合成长的小镇。
But we got married and we went away, went to the big city of St. Louis.
但我们结婚了，然后我们就离开了，去了大城市圣路易斯。
And we've been gone, I guess we were gone about 40 years.
我们已经离开了，我猜我们已经离开了大约 40 年。
And this has been a dream, to come back and build a home here.
回到这里并建立家园一直是我的梦想。
In St. Louis, Kenny had been a supervisor at McDonnell Douglas.
在圣路易斯，肯尼曾担任麦道公司的主管。
The Whartons lived in a house in the suburbs, raised two kids, active with neighborhood associations and the Board of Ed.
沃顿夫妇住在郊区的一所房子里，养育了两个孩子，积极参与邻里协会和教育委员会的活动。
And they thought, once they moved back to Canalou, they would try to bring back some of the spirit that they remembered growing up here in the '50s and '60s.
他们认为，一旦搬回卡纳卢，他们就会尝试找回一些他们记忆中的 50 年代和 60 年代在这里长大的精神。
Maybe start a little league, build a public park with swings and trees, put up a gym where kids could play ball, the kinds of straightforward, innocent improvements it's hard to imagine that anybody would oppose anywhere.
也许可以创办一个小联盟，建造一个有秋千和树木的公园，建立一个让孩子们可以打球的健身房，很难想象任何人会在任何地方反对这种直接、无辜的改进。
This is the story of why they failed, of why people did turn their backs on the Whartons, why three years of using every skill they have, devoting energy, devoting hope, only proved to them that Canalou did not want to be improved, and that something had changed in this small town that would take a lot more than two do-gooders to reverse.
这个故事讲述了他们为什么失败，为什么人们背弃了沃顿商学院，为什么三年来使用他们所拥有的一切技能，投入精力，投入希望，却只能向他们证明卡纳卢并不想得到改善，而这个小镇上发生了一些变化，需要两个以上的行善者才能扭转。
I don't know if we can climb over the rubble, or we should walk around.
我不知道我们是否可以爬过废墟，或者我们应该绕着走。
I can.
我可以。
I can.
我可以。
I know how.
我知道怎么做。
Susan Drake No, baby.
苏珊·德雷克 不，宝贝。
You fall, see all this glass and this rock?
你跌倒了，看到这些玻璃和石头了吗？
Fall and hurt yourself.
跌倒并伤害自己。
I didn't do that 'afore.
我以前没有这样做过。
I didn't do that.
我没有那样做。
It's OK.
没关系。
Directly across the street from the Whartons is a trailer where Susan Drake lives with her five-year-old daughter Rachel, her eight-month-old son David, and her boyfriend Brad.
沃顿商学院的街对面是一辆拖车，苏珊·德雷克 (Susan Drake) 和她五岁的女儿雷切尔 (Rachel)、八个月大的儿子大卫 (David) 和男友布拉德 (Brad) 住在那里。
Next to their trailer, one house down, is a lot that used to be an auto repair shop.
在他们的拖车旁边，再往下一层，有很多地方曾经是一家汽车修理店。
The shop burned down 10 years ago, and nobody has cleaned up the site.
这家商店10年前被烧毁，至今无人清理。
It's a mess of broken glass, twisted, rusted out tin from the roof, concrete blocks from the walls, a stack of old tires.
这是一堆碎玻璃，屋顶上扭曲生锈的锡，墙壁上的混凝土块，一堆旧轮胎。
In short, an irresistible place for any small child, including Rachel and her friends.
简而言之，这对任何小孩子来说都是不可抗拒的地方，包括雷切尔和她的朋友们。
Susan and Brad and Rachel take me on a tour.
苏珊、布拉德和雷切尔带我参观。
You've got an open refrigerator standing here.
你这里有一个打开的冰箱。
Well, the door's standing wide open.
嗯，门是敞开着的。
There.
那里。
Right there.
就在那里。
You can't get in here.
你不能进入这里。
Susan Drake Well, the shelves are in there.
苏珊·德雷克 好吧，架子就在那里。
But if you really wanted in there, you could get in there.
但如果你真的想进去，你就可以进去。
But that's dangerous baby.
但这是危险的宝贝。
When you get inside there and that door shuts, you can't open it from the inside.
当你进去时，门关着，你无法从里面打开它。
You're stuck in there and you could die, suffocate.
你被困在那里，你可能会窒息而死。
Rachael considers a diplomatic response.
雷切尔考虑采取外交回应。
Well, we went in the cars, though.
好吧，不过我们还是坐车去了。
We went in the cars.
我们坐车去了。
Not here.
不在这里。
We didn't went here.
我们没有去过这里。
We got in the cars.
我们上了车。
The cars where Rachel likes to play are just a few feet back from the building, nearly two dozen old Impalas and Malibus and Chevys sitting in a yard, no fence, lots of rust, broken glass.
雷切尔喜欢玩的汽车就在离大楼几英尺远的地方，院子里停着近两打旧的黑斑羚、马里布斯和雪佛兰，没有栅栏，有很多锈迹和碎玻璃。
Brad chooses this day, the day with visitors watching, to do some child proofing-- knock the refrigerator face down so no kid can climb in, push over a dangerously crumbling wall, shove a car to the ground that looks like it's about to fall over on any kid who leans on it.
布拉德选择这一天，也就是有游客观看的日子，做一些儿童防护活动——把冰箱正面朝下敲，这样就没有孩子可以爬进去，推过一堵危险的摇摇欲坠的墙，把一辆汽车推到地上，看起来就像要倒在任何一个靠在上面的孩子身上。
Rachael, meanwhile, tells her mom about the new swing the kids are all using.
与此同时，瑞秋告诉她妈妈孩子们都在使用的新秋千。
It is a dead power line that hangs from the top of a telephone pole behind the abandoned school.
这是一条断电的电线，悬挂在废弃学校后面的电线杆顶部。
As the kids swing, the pole quietly wobbles back and forth.
当孩子们荡秋千时，杆子静静地来回摇晃。
We walk through the rubble.
我们穿过废墟。
And it turns out that this lot, which will be cleaned up in most places-- not necessarily out of civic pride but at least out of fear that somebody would get hurt and sue the owner or the city-- this property belongs to Susan's cousin, little Jim.
事实证明，这片土地在大多数地方都会被清理——不一定是出于公民自豪感，但至少是出于担心有人受伤并起诉业主或市政府——这片土地属于苏珊的表弟小吉姆。
And Susan and Brad say that all the town has to do is threaten him with a ticket or a citation or a fine.
苏珊和布拉德说镇上所要做的就是用罚单、传票或罚款来威胁他。
He would clean it up.
他会把它清理干净。
Susan Drake Right.
苏珊·德雷克 对。
Yeah, he would.
是的，他会的。
The fact of the matter is-- Susan Drake But he's never been pressured.
事实是——Susan Drake 但他从未受到过压力。
--who's going to spend money they don't have to spend?
——谁会花他们不必花的钱？
Who's going to spend money they don't have to spend?
谁会花他们不必花的钱？
And nobody's told him to spend any money.
没有人告诉他要花钱。
Basically why he's not cleaned it up.
基本上他为什么不清理它。
Nobody's pressured him to clean it up.
没有人强迫他清理它。
Sweep it up.
把它扫起来。
Brad It's just ridiculous is what it is.
布拉德 这实在是太荒谬了。
Laziness, yeah.
懒惰，是的。
Brad Canalou's a hole in the wall.
布拉德·卡纳卢是墙上的一个洞。
That's all it is.
仅此而已。
It's a mud hole that they ought to bulldoze.
这是一个泥坑，他们应该用推土机推平。
There's nothing here.
这里什么都没有。
Brad There's no store.
布拉德 没有商店。
There's no bank.
没有银行。
There's nothing for kids to do.
孩子们没什么可做的。
There's one soda machine in town, and it's in a guy's driveway.
镇上有一台汽水机，就在一个人的车道上。
When we lived here, the rules were strictly enforced.
当我们住在这里时，规则被严格执行。
You kept your place maintained.
你保持了你的位置。
If a car was broke down on the streets, you had 24 hours to get it fixed.
如果一辆车在街上抛锚了，你有 24 小时的时间来修理。
It didn't sit there.
它没有坐在那里。
That's Jackie Wharton again.
又是杰基·沃顿。
She and Kenny moved back to Canalou in October of 1995.
1995 年 10 月，她和肯尼搬回卡纳卢。
And it wasn't long before Jackie started a ladies auxiliary to begin with some little community projects.
不久之后，杰基就创办了一家女性辅助机构，开始一些小型社区项目。
It was three ladies at first.
一开始是三位女士。
It got to over a dozen.
已经到了十多个了。
To raise money, they sold stuff at flea markets, delivered hearts and flowers on Valentine's Day, threw fundraiser dinners.
为了筹集资金，他们在跳蚤市场卖东西，在情人节送爱心和鲜花，举办筹款晚宴。
And after a few months, they had earned $2,000 in profits, enough to start a softball league, throw a neighborhood party.
几个月后，他们赚到了 2,000 美元的利润，足够创办垒球联赛、举办邻里聚会。
And at this point, the saga of good intentions gone wrong began.
就在这时，善意却出了岔子的传奇故事开始了。
We started several projects and boy, we just met opposition at every corner because they just couldn't understand why.
我们开始了几个项目，天哪，我们在每个角落都遇到了反对，因为他们就是不明白为什么。
The ladies auxiliary gave out free Christmas baskets to every home in town.
女辅助人员向镇上的每个家庭免费赠送圣诞篮。
We had fruit and candy and cookies, homemade cookies in them.
我们有水果、糖果和饼干，里面有自制的饼干。
We gave out 133 baskets.
我们赠送了133个篮子。
We did not get one thank you call.
我们没有接到任何感谢电话。
But we got five negative calls, and we considered it a success because that's all we got.
但我们接到了五个负面电话，我们认为这是成功的，因为这就是我们得到的全部。
They were angry, some people, because we left the baskets hanging on their door.
有些人很生气，因为我们把篮子挂在他们的门上。
And some didn't like us knocking on the doors after dark.
有些人不喜欢我们在天黑后敲门。
And oh, we got one lady's dogs upset and she didn't like that because her dogs got upset.
哦，我们让一位女士的狗不高兴了，她不喜欢这样，因为她的狗不高兴。
What did you say to them?
你对他们说什么了？
Jackie Wharton I said, well, we're sorry.
杰基·沃顿 我说，好吧，我们很抱歉。
We apologize.
我们道歉。
What can you say?
你能说什么？
We're sorry.
我们很抱歉。
We're sorry it wasn't good enough.
我们很抱歉这还不够好。
We're sorry your dogs were upset.
我们很抱歉让您的狗感到不安。
We're sorry.
我们很抱歉。
No ma'am, we won't leave anything hanging on your door again.
不，女士，我们不会再在您的门上留下任何东西。
And what can you say?
你能说什么？
You handle it.
你来处理吧。
Meanwhile, Kenny tried to get a grant to blacktop the streets, started things in motion to get a sewer system finally constructed.
与此同时，肯尼试图获得一笔拨款来修建街道柏油路，并开始行动以最终建成下水道系统。
He tried to get junk cleared off yards.
他试图清除院子里的垃圾。
He talked to his neighbors about bringing a restaurant or a grocery store back to Main Street, maybe get the hat factory down in Oran to set up some of their subcontracting work out of Canalou, generate some jobs.
他与邻居讨论了将一家餐馆或一家杂货店带回主街，也许将奥兰的帽子工厂建在卡纳卢以外的地方开展一些分包工作，创造一些就业机会。
And before long, this 65-year-old retiree, who looks a lot like a youthful Lyndon Johnson, found himself running for mayor.
不久之后，这位看起来很像年轻的林登·约翰逊 (Lyndon Johnson) 的 65 岁退休人员开始竞选市长。
I just told him I was interested in cleaning up the town and making it nice.
我只是告诉他我有兴趣清理这座城镇并使之变得美好。
And everybody that I talked to said, well, I'm not registered to vote.
与我交谈过的每个人都说，我没有登记投票。
But I'm sure going to vote for you.
但我确信我会投票给你。
We sure need that.
我们确实需要那个。
And I got them over to register to vote, and they voted for the other guy.
我让他们过来登记投票，他们投票给了另一个人。
Sure did.
当然有。
This is true.
这是真实的。
Ira Glass To understand why Kenny lost, I visited Charles and Kay Southard.
艾拉·格拉斯 为了了解肯尼失败的原因，我拜访了查尔斯和凯·索萨德。
Like Kenny, they grew up in a sharecropper's family.
和肯尼一样，他们在佃农家庭长大。
Charles' people were farmers and laborers.
查尔斯的人民是农民和工人。
Like most of the older people in town, he picked cotton as a kid.
像镇上大多数老年人一样，他小时候就摘过棉花。
The hand-picking stopped about 15 years ago, and they all went to machines.
大约15年前，手工采摘就停止了，全部都用机器采摘了。
And that's where the world messed up, by going to the machines.
这就是世界因机器而变得混乱的地方。
Then a bunch of Mexicans came down here and took everybody's job working.
然后一群墨西哥人来到这里，抢走了大家的工作。
Yeah, there's a bunch of them immigrants in here.
是的，这里有很多移民。
What they ought to do is just pack them up and send them back to Mexico where they belong.
他们应该做的就是把他们打包送回他们所属的墨西哥。
That way, American citizens will have more jobs instead of giving it to them.
这样，美国公民将获得更多工作，而不是把工作交给他们。
The Southards run a live bait business from their house, a double-wide trailer with additions built on.
索萨德夫妇在他们的房子里经营活饵业务，这是一辆加装附加装置的双宽拖车。
In the living room is a big tank with over-sized goldfish in it, which they sell as pets and as bait.
客厅里有一个大鱼缸，里面养着超大的金鱼，他们把它们当作宠物和鱼饵出售。
It's Charles Southard's driveway that has the town's one soda machine, but there's lots of other junk in the yard too, an old wagon, broken tables, cans, bottles, and a wide assortment of nondescript rusted out pieces of machinery.
查尔斯·索萨德 (Charles Southard) 的车道上有镇上唯一的一台汽水机，但院子里还有很多其他垃圾，一辆旧马车、破桌子、罐子、瓶子，以及各种各样不起眼的生锈机械部件。
There are lots of yards like this around town.
镇上有很多这样的院子。
I sat in the kitchen with Charles and Kay and asked what people thought of Kenny, why he lost the election.
我和查尔斯和凯坐在厨房里，询问人们对肯尼的看法，以及他为何输掉选举。
I want the truth.
我想要真相。
Charles Southard Because he was going around trying to run this town, telling everybody how to do things and how it was going to be done.
查尔斯·索萨德（Charles Southard）因为他四处奔走，试图管理这个小镇，告诉每个人如何做事以及如何做。
He was saying, you're going to keep your yard clean, you weren't going to have no toys, you weren't going to have no garbage, no trash, and no junk cars in this-- if he's going to do that, he better go back to where he come from, from down around Memphis.
他说，你要保持院子干净，你不会没有玩具，你不会没有垃圾，没有垃圾，也没有报废汽车——如果他要这样做，他最好回到他来自的地方，从孟菲斯周围。
Because you don't come into a little town like that and try to take over and run everything.
因为你不会来到这样的小镇并试图接管并管理一切。
Because this town's been this way ever since it was built.
因为这个小镇自从建成以来就是这样。
And one guy ain't going to change it.
一个人不会改变它。
That's the reason he made so many enemies and couldn't get elected.
这就是他树敌众多而无法当选的原因。
If he would have just played it smart and went along with everybody, then after he got elected tried to do his thing, he might have won it.
如果他明智地行事并与每个人合作，那么在他当选后尝试做他的事情，他可能会赢得胜利。
In a sense, Kenny made exactly the kind of political error that professional politicians always try to avoid.
从某种意义上说，肯尼犯的正是职业政治家总是试图避免的政治错误。
He told voters that they were going to have to make changes themselves.
他告诉选民，他们必须自己做出改变。
They were going to have to sacrifice.
他们将不得不做出牺牲。
They were going to have to get off their butts if change was going to come.
如果变革要到来，他们就必须全力以赴。
What made this especially hard to listen to was the fact that Kenny made a lot more money, even retired, than most people in town.
让这句话特别难以听的是，肯尼比镇上大多数人赚的钱多得多，甚至退休了。
Many Canalou families get food stamps or SSI.
许多卡纳卢家庭获得食品券或 SSI。
Besides Kenny's retirement checks, Jackie had won $286,644.54 on a quarter slot machine back in 1984.
除了肯尼的退休支票外，杰基在 1984 年还通过四分之一老虎机赢得了 286,644.54 美元。
Jackie and Kenny were the talk of the town for a while when they actually built a garage for their cars with an electric garage door opener, the first and only one in Canalou.
杰基和肯尼一度成为镇上的话题，因为他们实际上为自己的汽车建造了一个带有电动车库门开启器的车库，这是卡纳卢第一个也是唯一一个。
These were the people who were going around telling people what to do?
这些人就是到处告诉人们该做什么的人？
City people with their city ideas?
城市人有他们的城市想法吗？
Yankees, really?
洋基队，真的吗？
No wonder so many people did not believe that Kenny was even from Canalou.
难怪这么多人不相信肯尼来自卡纳卢。
Add to that the rumors that floated through town, that Kenny was going to make it illegal to own more than two cars, that Kenny was going to force people to give up older model trailers, or trailers on Main Street, or trailers completely, that Kenny made a man get rid of a goat that he kept in his yard.
再加上镇上流传的谣言，肯尼将规定拥有两辆以上汽车为非法，肯尼将迫使人们放弃旧型号拖车，或主街上的拖车，或完全放弃拖车，肯尼让一个人摆脱了他养在院子里的一只山羊。
Rumors that were all untrue.
那些传言都是不实的。
I know he came up here and told me my yard is junky.
我知道他来这里告诉我我的院子很垃圾。
He said, well, you've got to clean this stuff up.
他说，好吧，你必须把这些东西清理干净。
Says, you don't, we're going to give you a ticket and you're going to pay a fine.
说，你不这样做，我们会给你开罚单，你要支付罚款。
Like you, if you were out here in these old tires, and I know you've seen them, that people plant flowers in.
就像你一样，如果你穿着这些旧轮胎，我知道你见过它们，人们在里面种花。
Well, he had enough galls to come up here and tell me, I've got four of them out there, that I had to get rid of them.
好吧，他有足够的胆量来到这里告诉我，我那里有四个，我必须摆脱它们。
I told him, naw, man, that's my flower pots.
我告诉他，不，伙计，那是我的花盆。
I don't get rid of them.
我不会摆脱它们。
Well, you got to.
好吧，你必须这样做。
Says, that's pollution.
说，那是污染。
Says, that's cluttering up the ground.
说着，地上一片狼藉。
I says, I don't care.
我说，我不在乎。
It's my ground, my property, if I want to clutter it up, I clutter it up.
这是我的地盘，我的财产，如果我想把它弄乱，我就把它弄乱。
You just stay outside the fence here.
你只要呆在栅栏外面就可以了。
You need to just shut up and leave them alone.
你需要闭嘴，别打扰他们。
In a place like Canalou, where people have so little, they're naturally kind of protective about the little they have.
在像卡纳卢这样的地方，人们拥有的东西很少，他们自然会保护自己所拥有的少量东西。
In talking to Charles Southard, it's hard not to wonder if Kenny couldn't have just presented his ideas differently and won more people over.
在与查尔斯·索萨德交谈时，我们很难不怀疑肯尼是否不能以不同的方式表达他的想法并赢得更多人的支持。
Because if you ask Charles and Kay what changes they'd like to see in Canalou, their list actually matches a lot of the things on Kenny's list.
因为如果你问查尔斯和凯他们希望在卡纳卢看到什么变化，他们的清单实际上与肯尼清单上的很多东西相匹配。
They need somebody to keep these roads in shape.
他们需要有人来保持这些道路的健康。
They need a trash truck to pick the trash up.
他们需要一辆垃圾车来收集垃圾。
They need to put a grocery store in here.
他们需要在这里开一家杂货店。
Put a what?
放一个什么？
Kay Southard A grocery store.
凯·索萨德 一家杂货店。
And a game room for these kids.
还有为这些孩子们准备的游戏室。
A typical mayoral election in Canalou, I was told, brings out 50, maybe 60 voters.
有人告诉我，卡纳卢典型的市长选举会产生 50 名、也许 60 名选民。
This one turned into a referendum on Kenny Wharton.
这变成了对肯尼·沃顿的全民公投。
And people felt so strongly that nearly 200 voted.
人们的感受如此强烈，以至于有近 200 人投票了。
Kenny got 89 votes.
肯尼获得89票。
His opponent, the current mayor, Charles Joyce, 98.
他的对手，现任市长查尔斯·乔伊斯，98岁。
Kenny lost by nine votes.
肯尼以九票之差落败。
Rick Foraker is an outsider who spent a lot of time in Canalou the last 11 years, ever since he started dating his wife, Lavanna, who grew up here, who likes it here.
里克·福雷克 (Rick Foraker) 是一个局外人，自从他开始与在这里长大、喜欢这里的妻子拉瓦娜 (Lavanna) 约会以来，过去 11 年里他在卡纳卢度过了很多时间。
Rick's job is a strange one.
里克的工作很奇怪。
He works for companies that do disaster relief.
他在从事救灾工作的公司工作。
He's kind of a mercenary do-gooder, a professional humanitarian.
他是一个唯利是图的行善者，一个专业的人道主义者。
Though he just calls himself a vulture.
尽管他只是称自己为秃鹫。
He flies to places where there have been floods or hurricanes, works five, six months, seven days a week, 12 hours a day, makes a lot of money, and comes home, spends months doing nothing.
他飞往发生过洪水或飓风的地方，工作五六个月，每周工作 7 天，每天工作 12 个小时，赚了很多钱，然后回到家，花了几个月的时间无所事事。
Every November and September, you can find my butt glued to the TV set, to the Weather Channel watching for the hurricanes.
每年十一月和九月，你都会发现我的屁股粘在电视机上，粘在天气频道上观看飓风。
Very few people do.
很少有人这样做。
That's why it pays good.
这就是为什么它报酬不错。
As an outsider to this town who's observed Canalou for a decade, Rick has an entire theory of how the town works and why Kenny and Jackie would do so badly here.
作为这个小镇的局外人，里克对卡纳卢进行了十年的观察，他对这个小镇的运作方式以及为什么肯尼和杰基会在这里表现如此糟糕有一个完整的理论。
Downtown, this town used to thrive and party more than Sikeston, up until the mid-'60s.
直到 60 年代中期，这座位于市中心的小镇曾经比赛克斯顿更加繁荣和热闹。
And it's like everything else.
就像其他一切一样。
It was a railroad town.
那是一个铁路城镇。
The railroad closed down, so the cotton mills closed down.
铁路关闭了，棉纺厂也关闭了。
So the cotton mills closed down, no jobs.
所以棉纺厂倒闭了，没有工作机会。
People left with the jobs.
人们带着工作离开了。
Businesses didn't have any more money.
企业没有更多的钱了。
People weren't spending money in businesses so the businesses closed.
人们不再在企业上花钱，所以企业倒闭了。
And voila, you have a ghost town.
瞧，你有一座鬼城。
It's just a typical ghost town story.
这只是一个典型的鬼城故事。
And now what you've got left here are the die hards, the people that just won't move out because they're afraid to go anywhere else, they can't afford to go anywhere else.
现在只剩下顽固分子，他们就是不愿意搬出去，因为他们害怕去其他地方，他们负担不起去其他地方的费用。
And they keep them at a poverty level.
他们让他们保持在贫困水平。
People down here, they don't make any money.
这里的人，赚不到钱。
That's my main bitch about being here.
这就是我来这里的主要问题。
The jobs that they've got down here for $6 and $7 an hour are jobs I'm used to making $12, $15 at home.
他们在这里提供的每小时 6 美元和 7 美元的工作，是我在家时挣 12 美元、15 美元的工作。
What kind of jobs are you talking about?
你说的是哪类工作？
Well, it's just like driving the tan dump truck.
嗯，这就像驾驶棕褐色自卸卡车一样。
I go home, I make $14, $15, I've made as high as $17 an hour.
我回家后，我赚了 14 美元、15 美元，我每小时赚了 17 美元。
This is back home in Springfield, Illinois.
这是回到伊利诺伊州斯普林菲尔德的家。
Yeah.
是的。
Springfield, Illinois.
伊利诺伊州斯普林菲尔德。
Down here, it's $7 an hour, and they expect you to be on call seven days a week, 24 hours a day.
在这里，每小时 7 美元，他们希望你每周 7 天、每天 24 小时待命。
They don't want to pay up any kind of an overtime situation.
他们不想支付任何加班费。
An when they hand you this paycheck, they've just got this attitude like they own you.
当他们给你这张薪水时，他们的态度就好像他们拥有你一样。
They're doing you a large favor.
他们帮了你一个大忙。
I've personally got some really bad news for them.
我个人对他们来说有一些非常坏的消息。
It's no favor.
这不是什么恩惠。
Most of these people who are in this town have been in this town.
这座小镇上的这些人，大部分都曾经来过这座小镇。
So they figure they're here, what they got's what they're going to get, they just get depressed and upset and aggravated and look around, the hell with it.
所以他们认为他们在这里，他们得到的就是他们将要得到的，他们只是变得沮丧、不安、恼怒，环顾四周，管它呢。
And so people don't try to fix things, Rick says, or make their lives better.
里克说，所以人们不会试图解决问题，或者让他们的生活变得更好。
People have given up.
人们已经放弃了。
And they stay because it's cheap.
他们留下来是因为它便宜。
Rick's property taxes are $27 a year.
Rick 的财产税为每年 27 美元。
Picture then, into this setting come Kenny and Jackie Wharton, like people from another America, an America of people on the go, of self-help seminars, of motivational speakers.
那么想象一下，肯尼·沃顿和杰基·沃顿来到这个环境中，就像来自另一个美国的人一样，一个忙碌的美国，一个自助研讨会的美国，一个励志演讲家的美国。
Jackie used to be a motivational speaker.
杰基曾经是一位励志演说家。
Jackie and Kenny arrive in Canalou and it was like a collision of two different visions of what it means to live in this country.
杰基和肯尼抵达卡纳卢，这就像对在这个国家生活意味着什么的两种不同看法的碰撞。
Is Canalou a small town where people have pride and self-reliance, where neighbors band together to build civic institutions?
卡纳卢是一个人们自豪、自力更生、邻居们联合起来建立公民机构的小镇吗？
Or is Canalou a place full of people who simply cannot get it together to improve their lives?
或者卡纳卢是一个充满了无法团结起来改善生活的人的地方吗？
I'd like to say, once again, the sewer system.
我想再说一遍，下水道系统。
God, it'd be so nice to be able to go out in the yards in the summertime and not smell somebody's septic tank.
天哪，如果夏天能够到院子里去，而不闻到别人化粪池的味道，那该多好啊。
Or look out across somebody's yard after rain and not see black water running to the ditches.
或者雨后往外看某人的院子，却看不到黑色的水流进沟渠。
But they're so scared.
但他们太害怕了。
Well, I guess it's because they don't have the money.
好吧，我猜这是因为他们没有钱。
They're so scared that this is going to cost them everything they've got that they don't want nothing to do with it.
他们非常害怕这会花掉他们所拥有的一切，所以他们不想与之有任何关系。
And so it came to pass that in this town where people do not want to clean their yards, where nobody wants to be bothered, the democratic process worked pretty much as well as you could imagine.
因此，在这个人们不想打扫院子、没有人愿意被打扰的小镇上，民主进程的运作效果几乎如你想象的那样。
The mayor they chose instead of Kenny is, in a certain sense, the perfect representative of people.
他们选择的代替肯尼的市长，从某种意义上说，是人民的完美代表。
One of the biggest and junkiest people in town is the mayor.
镇上最大、最酗酒的人之一是市长。
Well, I really can't.
嗯，我真的不能。
I could kind of show it to you.
我可以给你看一下。
Well, you can get kind of a view.
嗯，你可以看到一些风景。
The two houses right straight through, those two houses there, all that pipe and stuff sitting over there on the ground, that's his.
直接穿过的两栋房子，那两栋房子，所有那些管道和东西都放在那边的地上，那是他的。
You say pipes, each one longer than a car.
你说的是管道，每根都比汽车还长。
That's his yard?
那是他的院子？
Rick Foraker Yeah, that's part of it.
Rick Foraker 是的，这就是其中的一部分。
That's one lot.
那是一大堆。
He's got two big lots there.
他在那里有两块大地。
That's where he keeps all of his junk.
那是他存放所有垃圾的地方。
He's got all kinds of junk farm equipment, trucks, tractor trailers, semis and stuff in the yard.
他的院子里有各种垃圾农场设备、卡车、拖拉机拖车、半挂车等等。
I've been mayor for a long time.
我当市长已经很长时间了。
People pretty well know what's going to happen.
人们很清楚会发生什么。
Charles Joyce is such a successful politician that he does not actually remember how many times he's been reelected since the early 1980s.
查尔斯·乔伊斯 (Charles Joyce) 是一位非常成功的政治家，他实际上不记得自 20 世纪 80 年代初以来他已经连任了多少次。
When I visit, it's just before dinner.
我去的时候正好是晚饭前。
He's a farmer in his 60s, sat on a couch in his smallish living room, TV playing, one of those little TV tray tables next to him with some iced tea on it.
他是一位 60 多岁的农民，坐在小客厅的沙发上，正在播放电视，旁边有一张小电视小桌，上面放着一些冰茶。
I've been warned by the gossip line in Canalou that Mr. Joyce had somehow absconded the beautiful cypress floors of the old gymnasium that was torn down and used them for his own living room.
卡纳卢的八卦热线警告我，乔伊斯先生以某种方式潜逃了旧体育馆美丽的柏木地板，该地板已被拆除，并用它们作为自己的客厅。
This was nowhere near true.
这远非事实。
If anything, Canalou was a town too poor even to steal from.
如果说有什么不同的话，那就是卡纳卢是一个穷得连偷东西都没有的小镇。
Mr. Joyce says there's no money to pay for a full-time policeman, for a judge, for a prosecutor.
乔伊斯先生说，没有钱聘请全职警察、法官和检察官。
In short, there is no money to enforce any ordinances of any kind that they might have.
简而言之，没有钱来执行他们可能拥有的任何种类的法令。
I'm telling you, property taxes is nothing.
我告诉你，房产税不算什么。
That's what I've been telling you.
这就是我一直告诉你的。
See, we've got lots that bring in $0.50 and stamps is $0.35, right?
看，我们有很多作品可以带来 0.50 美元的收入，而邮票则为 0.35 美元，对吗？
So you're saying, basically, your hands are tied.
所以你是说，基本上，你的双手被束缚了。
Well, do you know what the mayor can do in a 4 Class city?
那么，你知道市长在四级城市能做什么吗？
I don't.
我不知道。
What?
什么？
Charles Joyce Well, he can't do very much.
查尔斯·乔伊斯：嗯，他能做的不多。
Total budget of the Canalou general fund, $10,000 to $12,000.
卡纳卢普通基金的总预算为 10,000 美元至 12,000 美元。
People don't want to pay more in taxes, Mayor Joyce told me, so that limits services.
乔伊斯市长告诉我，人们不想缴纳更多税款，因此服务受到限制。
I ask him about the hazardous junk that any child could get hurt on and sue the city.
我问他有关任何孩子都可能受伤并起诉市政府的危险垃圾的情况。
He said that it would take money to enforce the law or money to clean it up.
他说，需要钱来执行法律，或者需要钱来清理。
That is money they do not have for a cleanup that people do not want.
他们没有钱来进行人们不想要的清理工作。
See, what's junk to me may be your treasure.
你看，对我来说是垃圾的东西可能是你的宝藏。
There's a couple over here that I understood was told that they had to get rid of a bus that they had in their backyard.
据我所知，这里有一对夫妇被告知他们必须扔掉后院的一辆公共汽车。
That's the only storage building they've got.
那是他们唯一的仓库建筑。
But that bus has got a good coat of paint on it.
但这辆公共汽车上面涂了一层很好的油漆。
It's jacked up.
已经顶起来了
It's on blocks.
它在街区上。
And they're not really bothering me.
他们并没有真正打扰我。
They're on his property.
他们在他的财产上。
See, we're not Sikeston.
看，我们不是赛克斯顿。
We ain't never been, we'll never be.
我们从来没有，也永远不会。
And this is one of the few things, privileges we've got, that we don't have a bunch of young storm troopers running around here saying, we're going to write you a ticket.
这是我们所拥有的为数不多的特权之一，我们没有一群年轻的冲锋队员在这里跑来跑去说，我们要给你开一张罚单。
I've got a [UNINTELLIGIBLE] here.
我这里有一个[无法理解]。
They were going to write him a ticket because his kids had broke toys.
他们要给他开罚单，因为他的孩子弄坏了玩具。
That was the only toys that they had.
那是他们唯一的玩具。
Broken toys just sitting out in the yard, you mean?
坏掉的玩具就放在院子里，你是说？
Yeah.
是的。
They were out in the yard, because that's where they played with him, was in the yard.
他们在院子里，因为那是他们和他一起玩的地方，在院子里。
Well, the toys were broke.
好吧，玩具坏了。
But those were the best toys the kids had.
但那些是孩子们拥有的最好的玩具。
If we had to get rid of them, then they would have no toys at all.
如果我们必须摆脱它们，那么它们就根本没有玩具了。
I don't agree.
我不同意。
I don't agree.
我不同意。
And I've been elected mayor a bunch of times.
我曾多次当选市长。
A lot of people do like it here.
很多人都喜欢这里。
One night I stopped by Rick's when his wife Lavanna and their 13-year-old nephew Jason were there.
一天晚上，我去了 Rick 家，当时他的妻子拉瓦娜 (Lavanna) 和他们 13 岁的侄子杰森 (Jason) 也在场。
My producer Julie Snyder was there, and Mary Wilternburg, who knew her way around Canalou and was helping with this story.
我的制片人朱莉·斯奈德（Julie Snyder）也在场，还有玛丽·威尔滕伯格（Mary Wilternburg），她对卡纳卢很了解，正在帮助这个故事。
We all talked for a long time.
我们大家聊了很长时间。
It was fun.
很有趣。
I might be able to call my mom and I can stay till 9:30.
我也许可以给妈妈打电话，然后呆到 9:30。
Can I call?
我可以打电话吗？
Jason did his impressions for us and then gave us permission to broadcast them, a fact which will surely horrify him three or four years from now when he's in high school.
杰森为我们做了他的印象，然后允许我们播放它们，这一事实肯定会让他在三四年后上高中时感到震惊。
He did Ace Ventura.
他做了《王牌文图拉》。
Hi there, nice to see you.
你好，很高兴见到你。
Bumblebee Tuna.
大黄蜂金枪鱼。
Well, I was sitting out in my garage one day, mm-hmm.
好吧，有一天我坐在车库里，嗯嗯。
I heard my mama screaming, and so I walked out there and I saw that Kaiser blade.
我听到妈妈在尖叫，所以我走到那里，看到了那把凯撒刀片。
I call it a sling blade.
我称之为吊带刀片。
So I picked it up, mm-hmm.
于是我就接了起来，嗯嗯。
Forrest Gump.
阿甘。
Jason I'm a little rusty on this, but I'm OK.
杰森，我对此有点生疏，但我还好。
Hi.
你好。
My name's Forrest, Forrest Gump.
我叫阿甘，阿甘。
People call me Forrest Gump.
人们叫我阿甘。
That-that-that's all I got to say about that.
这就是我要说的。
[LAUGHTER] Ira Glass Rick teased Lavanna about Canalou, the town that she made him move to.
[笑声] 艾拉·格拉斯·里克 (Ira Glass Rick) 取笑拉瓦纳 (Lavanna) 关于卡纳卢 (Canalou) 的事，她让他搬到了这个小镇。
People here are fighting modernization, he says.
他说，这里的人们正在与现代化作斗争。
She just laughs at him.
她只是嘲笑他。
Then I ask her the question that Rick says he's been asking for eight years, since they got married.
然后我问了她一个问题，瑞克说自从他们结婚以来他已经问了八年了。
Why does she want to stay in Canalou?
她为什么想留在卡纳卢？
I knew you were going to ask me that.
我知道你会问我这个。
You know, honest to god, I don't know why.
你知道，对上帝说实话，我不知道为什么。
There's no reason to live here except for if you've got friends or relatives.
除非你有朋友或亲戚，否则没有理由住在这里。
Well, it's like when I lived across the street, that big porch out there.
嗯，就像我住在街对面的时候，外面那个大门廊。
Every morning I just loved that porch.
每天早上我都很喜欢那个门廊。
I'd go outside and drink my coffee.
我会出去喝咖啡。
And I'd dream about when I grow old sitting on the porch with my buddy-- my buddy lives across the street-- just sitting on my porch just swinging and gossiping about this one and gossiping about that one.
我梦想着当我老了的时候，和我的朋友坐在门廊上——我的朋友住在街对面——只是坐在我的门廊上摇摆不定，闲聊这个，闲聊那个。
Not mean, nasty things, just boring old, oh, did you see what she did to her hair?
不是卑鄙、肮脏的事情，只是无聊的老事，哦，你看到她对头发做了什么吗？
You know, just [BLEEP] like that.
你知道，就像那样[BLEEP]。
I don't know, that'd probably just bore the socks off y'all.
我不知道，这可能会让你们感到厌烦。
But to me, that's just one of my dreams, is just to sit and grow old with my friends.
但对我来说，这只是我的梦想之一，就是和我的朋友们坐在一起慢慢变老。
In her various projects to improve Canalou, Jackie had her successes and her failures.
在改善卡纳卢的各种项目中，杰基有成功也有失败。
The big successes mostly came in this last year, her third year in town.
巨大的成功主要发生在去年，即她在城里的第三年。
The ladies auxiliary through a big 4th of July cookout that actually drew a crowd with booths and games, a petting zoo for the little kids, a fireworks display that everybody said was even better than Sikeston's, a Country/Western band for the adults.
女士们辅助参加了 7 月 4 日的大型野餐，活动实际上吸引了一大群人，里面有摊位和游戏、小孩子们的宠物动物园、每个人都说比 Sikeston's 更好的烟火表演，这是一个为成年人准备的乡村/西方乐队。
Some people even danced.
有些人甚至跳舞。
The only problem was most of the crowd was from the surrounding towns, perhaps only a third from Canalou.
唯一的问题是大多数人群来自周边城镇，也许只有三分之一来自卡纳卢。
That finally changed last Halloween.
去年万圣节终于改变了。
The ladies auxiliary held a costume contest with a weenie roast and a big bonfire.
女辅助人员举办了一场服装比赛，有烤肉和篝火。
Finally, they drew 50 or 60 people from within Canalou, people of all ages.
最后，他们从卡纳卢内部吸引了 50 到 60 名各个年龄段的人。
That, to me, was the most heartwarming experience I've done here.
对我来说，这是我在这里做过的最温馨的经历。
It was a whole different group of people that came out.
出来的是一群完全不同的人。
There's something about a bonfire.
有一些关于篝火的事情。
After that party, Jackie finally felt comfortable enough in town to start going to church in Canalou.
聚会结束后，杰基终于在镇上感到足够舒服，开始去卡纳卢的教堂。
Every now and then, people started telling her they appreciated what the ladies auxiliary was doing in town.
时不时地，人们开始告诉她，他们很欣赏女助理在城里所做的事情。
This is also during the period that Kenny was running for mayor, going door to door.
这也是肯尼竞选市长期间，挨家挨户竞选的时期。
And talking face to face, most people were encouraging.
面对面交谈时，大多数人都感到鼓舞。
He thought he was a shoe-in.
他以为自己是个中标者。
I was feeling elated.
我感到很高兴。
I was feeling like, oh boy, everything is going to work.
我感觉，天哪，一切都会顺利。
We're going to be-- the community is coming together.
我们将会——社区聚集在一起。
And then what happened next?
然后接下来发生了什么？
What changed?
发生了什么变化？
Then we started getting threatening calls, and people telling us get out or die, or leave this time, you-- awfully bad words.
然后我们开始接到威胁电话，人们告诉我们要么滚出去，要么死，或者这次离开，你——非常糟糕的言语。
And we don't want you here.
我们不希望你在这里。
You're not wanted here.
这里不需要你。
People threw eggs and bottles at their house.
人们向他们的房子扔鸡蛋和瓶子。
The threatening phone calls continued.
威胁电话仍在继续。
Some people avoided them on the street.
有些人在街上避开他们。
One day, their car windows were broken.
有一天，他们的车窗被打破了。
And then on a day in December--
然后在十二月的一天——
We were shot at, OK?
我们被枪杀了，好吗？
The detectives out of Jeff City said it wasn't kids, that we were shot at from the top of the school with a rifle.
杰夫城的侦探说我们不是孩子，而是从学校顶部用步枪射击的。
And it came through our bedroom wall.
它穿过我们卧室的墙。
Jackie showed me the bullet hole, big enough to put her thumb in.
杰基给我看了弹孔，大到足以让她的拇指伸进去。
The timing was so strange.
时机是如此奇怪。
Jackie and Kenny are not sure why somebody would take a shot at them at that point in their time in Canalou.
杰基和肯尼不确定为什么有人会在他们在卡纳卢的那个时候向他们开枪。
Maybe, Jackie thinks, somebody saw that they were finally having some success and just couldn't stand it.
杰基想，也许有人看到他们终于取得了一些成功，却无法忍受。
In any case, the bullet was the beginning of the end.
无论如何，子弹就是结局的开始。
There's nothing.
什么都没有。
There's just nothing left.
什么都没有剩下了。
I guess we had hopes of building it back, getting some of that back it used to have.
我想我们希望能够重建它，恢复它曾经拥有的一些东西。
But it's impossible because them people's gone.
但这是不可能的，因为他们已经走了。
You just can't go back.
你就是回不去。
And I guess we thought we could.
我想我们认为我们可以。
And now we're ready to sell out and move on.
现在我们准备出售并继续前进。
Really?
真的吗？
Kenny Wharton Just go on down the road.
肯尼·沃顿 继续沿着路走吧。
I am.
我是。
I'm tired of trying to build something back, I guess.
我想我已经厌倦了试图重建一些东西。
At that point in our interview, Jackie waved to me to turn off my tape recorder, tears in her eyes.
在我们采访的那一刻，杰基挥手示意我关掉录音机，眼里含着泪水。
She ran out of the room to get some tissues, came back, took a minute, and then let me turn the tape recorder back on.
她跑出房间拿了一些纸巾，回来后花了一分钟，然后让我重新打开录音机。
That's the first time, that's the first time I've heard him, I guess, really sound defeated.
这是我第一次，我第一次听到他的声音，我想，听起来真的很失败。
The two of you must have talked about, well, should we go, right?
你们两个肯定讨论过，那么，我们该走了吧？
Oh, yes.
哦是的。
I've said, I'm through.
我说过了，我已经结束了。
I can't take anymore.
我再也受不了了
And then I say, oh, well, maybe this project will make a difference.
然后我说，哦，好吧，也许这个项目会有所作为。
And we've had three pretty rough years here, where we've been-- just people don't like us here.
我们在这里度过了非常艰难的三年——只是人们不喜欢我们这里。
And that's hard to accept when you're not wanted and you're just not liked.
当你不受欢迎或者不受欢迎时，这是很难接受的。
That's really hard to give in to, you know.
你知道，这真的很难屈服。
Kenny had never actually said to her before this moment that he was ready to move away.
在此之前，肯尼从未真正对她说过他准备搬走。
You ever hear this phrase, "no good deed goes unpunished?"
你听过这样一句话吗：“善有善报”？
Of what?
属于什么？
Jackie Wharton No good deed goes unpunished, yeah.
杰基·沃顿 善行难免受到惩罚，是的。
Well, probably not.
嗯，可能不会。
But anyway, maybe we hadn't done such a good deed for these people around here.
但无论如何，也许我们并没有为这里的这些人做过这么一件好事。
It's not what they wanted that's for sure.
这肯定不是他们想要的。
Maybe it's more what we wanted than what they wanted.
也许我们想要的比他们想要的更多。
I'd have to think about it.
我得考虑一下。
They get it the way they want it.
他们按照自己想要的方式得到它。
They've had it this way before we come here.
在我们来这里之前他们就已经这样了。
And it'll be this way after we leave.
我们离开后也会是这样。
In order to do good of any kind, you have to have a vision of the way that you want things.
为了做好任何事，你必须对你想要的事情有一个愿景。
There is a ruthlessness to changing the world, to imposing your will on what the world is.
改变世界，将自己的意志强加于世界，是一种无情的行为。
And the danger of having a vision, of course, is that your vision can cloud your eyes about what is really there.
当然，拥有远见的危险在于，你的远见可能会让你的眼睛看不清真实存在的东西。
Often when I talked to Jackie, I was struck with her vision of Canalou, with how alive the past was to her.
当我和杰基交谈时，我经常被她对卡纳卢的看法以及过去对她来说是多么的鲜活所震惊。
People who stayed in town for 40 years saw a change from what it was back then to what it is now.
在镇上呆了40年的人们亲眼目睹了从那时到现在的变化。
But without the advantage of watching the daily erosion of this town, Jackie can still see it as it was.
但即使没有亲眼目睹这个小镇日复一日的侵蚀，杰基仍然可以看到它原来的样子。
And when she talked about it, it was always a version of the past that had the quality of a fairy tale, of something barely sounding real.
当她谈论它时，它总是一个具有童话般品质的过去版本，听起来几乎不真实。
One day I was walking through an old abandoned house on the town's west side, one of the buildings that the kids called their clubhouses.
有一天，我走过镇西侧一栋废弃的老房子，孩子们把这座建筑称为俱乐部会所。
The roof's broken through, the floor is torn up, walls crumbling.
屋顶被冲破，地板被撕裂，墙壁倒塌。
Jason, Rick and Lavanna's nephew, took me there in the rain.
瑞克和拉瓦纳的侄子杰森在雨中带我去了那里。
There's lumber everywhere, insulation from the ceiling.
到处都是木材，与天花板绝缘。
And then there's a rope where that chimney used to be.
原来烟囱所在的地方有一根绳子。
And they nailed the rope up here, and we'll just every once in a while climb up it.
他们把绳子钉在这里，我们偶尔会爬上去。
It's not really safe, but we ain't got nothing to do.
虽然不太安全，但我们也无事可做。
Whatever we can find around here is what we do.
无论我们在这里能找到什么，我们都会做。
It's not much.
并不多。
The day after Jason and I stood there, I was driving by this very house with Kenny and Jackie Wharton.
杰森和我站在那里的第二天，我和肯尼·沃顿和杰基·沃顿一起开车经过这所房子。
When Jackie looks at this house, she doesn't just see a dangerous wreck of a place that she thinks should be torn down right now in the here and now.
当杰基看着这所房子时，她看到的不仅仅是一处她认为应该立即拆除的危险废墟。
She also sees what it was back when, the home of her school teacher, Mrs. Powell.
她还看到了学校老师鲍威尔夫人的家，当时的样子。
The one thing I remember about it-- she had a lot of doilies, white, starched, crocheted doilies, like right in the middle of her coffee table.
我记得的一件事是——她有很多桌布，白色的、浆过的、钩编的桌布，就像就在她的咖啡桌中间一样。
And right in the middle of that, she had a candy dish.
就在这中间，她吃了一个糖果盘。
And she would always offer you a piece of candy.
她总是会给你一块糖果。
And you were allowed to take it if they offered.
如果他们愿意，你就可以接受。
And that was the main thing.
这是最重要的。
And she had a glass slipper on her dresser that I used to just love to look at.
她的梳妆台上有一只我以前很喜欢看的玻璃鞋。
Somehow when the light would come through the bedroom window, it would hit this glass slipper.
不知怎的，当光线从卧室的窗户射进来时，它就会照到这只玻璃鞋上。
And it would just shimmer.
它只会闪闪发光。
And I thought probably it was made of diamonds.
我想它可能是由钻石制成的。
Yeah, she was probably the richest lady in town and nobody knew.
是的，她可能是城里最富有的女士，但没人知道。
It's the clarity of Jackie's vision, her vision of the town that was-- or the town that seemed to be there anyway, when she was a kid-- combined with her sheer willfulness, her effectiveness in making things happen.
这是杰基清晰的愿景，她对那个小镇的愿景——或者说，当她还是个孩子的时候，那个小镇似乎就在那儿——加上她纯粹的任性和她让事情发生的效率。
This is the combination that led her and her husband down the path that they've taken for these last three years.
这种结合带领她和她的丈夫走上了过去三年的道路。
It's only now that a rifle shot provided her with a different vision of what Canalou is, a second vision of the town to replace that first one that she started with.
直到现在，步枪的一枪让她对卡纳卢有了不同的认识，这是这个小镇的第二个愿景，取代了她开始时的第一个愿景。
It's only that that made her and her husband able to move away.
也只有这样，她和丈夫才能够搬走。
[MUSIC - "HIGHWAY 61 REVISITED" BY BOB DYLAN]
[音乐 - 鲍勃·迪伦的《重访 61 号公路》]
Coming up, do-gooders with $1 million a day in their pockets to spend and plane tickets overseas.
即将到来的是，口袋里每天有 100 万美元可花和海外机票的行善者。
That's in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同的故事。
Today's program, Do-Gooders, why they often fail, why they sometimes succeed.
今天的节目，行善者，为什么他们经常失败，为什么他们有时会成功。
We have arrived at act two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two.
第二幕。
Humanitarians.
人道主义者。
In 1994, in the African country of Rwanda, the Hutu government instructed its people to go out and kill their neighbors, co-workers, friends, fellow church members who happen to be Tutsi.
1994年，在非洲国家卢旺达，胡图族政府指示人民出去杀害他们的邻居、同事、朋友以及恰巧是图西族的教会成员。
At least 800,000 people were murdered.
至少80万人被谋杀。
And although there were several different moments when international action could have conceivably stopped or slowed the killing, the world did nothing, held back, in fact, at various points by the United States government.
尽管在几个不同的时刻，国际行动本可以阻止或减缓杀戮，但世界却没有采取任何行动，事实上，美国政府在不同时刻都进行了阻止。
But after the biggest part of the genocide was over, the international community did finally intervene.
但在种族灭绝的最大部分结束后，国际社会终于进行了干预。
Philip Gourevitch has written about all this in his book We Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will be Killed With Our Families: Stories from Rwanda.
菲利普·古雷维奇（Philip Gourevitch）在他的书《我们希望通知您明天我们将与我们的家人一起被杀：来自卢旺达的故事》中写到了这一切。
Finally, the killing was brought to a halt by a rebel army within Rwanda.
最后，卢旺达境内的叛军制止了杀戮。
And the command that had been going out over the government radio to the Hutu majority had been previously, "kill all the Tutsis, join in the killing." Now it was, "flee, join in the exodus." And really close to a million and a half or 2 million people fled Rwanda in the largest, fastest mass exodus in modern recorded history, across the borders into Tanzania, but primarily also into what was then Zaire, the Congo, under Mobutu.
此前，政府电台向胡图族多数派发出的命令是：“杀死所有图西族人，加入杀戮。”现在是“逃亡，加入逃亡行列”。近一百五十或两百万人逃离卢旺达，这是现代有记录以来规模最大、速度最快的大规模逃亡，越过边境进入坦桑尼亚，但主要也进入当时蒙博托统治下的扎伊尔和刚果。
And this enormous out-rush of people was perceived broadly as an exodus from the genocide.
人们普遍认为，这种大规模的人口外流是种族灭绝后的逃亡。
In other words, we in the world beyond had been told, my goodness, there's a lot of killing going on inside Rwanda.
换句话说，我们在外面的世界被告知，天哪，卢旺达境内正在发生大量杀戮。
And then we're told there are a lot of people fleeing.
然后我们被告知有很多人在逃亡。
And the obvious assumption was that these people must in some way be fleeing the atrocities.
显而易见的假设是，这些人一定是在以某种方式逃离暴行。
In fact--
事实上——
Right.
对。
That these people were potential victims.
这些人是潜在的受害者。
In some sense that they were victims.
从某种意义上说，他们是受害者。
By virtue of displacement, the image of a refugee is the image of a victim.
由于流离失所，难民的形象就是受害者的形象。
And many of the people who were fleeing were people who were essentially civilians caught up in the turmoil and displacement of this conflict.
许多逃离的人本质上是陷入这场冲突的动乱和流离失所的平民。
On the other hand, a very great many of them were also people who had been active as either ordinary killers, as they're called in Rwanda, or as the organizers of the killers, the militia, the military, the civic leaders, the church leaders, the school teachers, and doctors, and so forth-- the so-called intellectuals who presided over the population when it was at home.
另一方面，他们中的很多人也曾经作为普通杀手（卢旺达对他们的称呼）活跃，或者作为杀手的组织者、民兵、军队、公民领袖、教会领袖、学校教师和医生等等——也就是在国内统治人民的所谓知识分子。
And who essentially were leading this population into exile to create a rump genocidal state.
他们本质上是在带领这群人流亡，创造一个残存的种族灭绝国家。
It was then that you had this incredibly large humanitarian influx into the Congo in particular-- into Zaire, particularly into the towns of Goma and Bukavu, the border towns-- as vast airlifts and an enormous outpouring of international aid went to establish massive refugee camps and essentially cater to this huge refugee outpouring.
就在那时，大量的人道主义援助涌入刚果，特别是扎伊尔，特别是边境城镇戈马和布卡武，大量的空运和大量的国际援助用于建立大规模的难民营，基本上满足了这一大批难民的涌入。
And some of the organizations that were going at that point-- I think at one point you say it was $1 million a day that was being spent.
当时正在开展的一些组织——我想有一次你说每天的花费是 100 万美元。
At that point, it was much more than $1 million a day.
那时，每天的收入远远超过 100 万美元。
$1 million a day was what it came to be averaged out as over a three-year period.
三年期间平均每天 100 万美元。
So you can imagine that at that point, when they were bringing in transport planes around the clock, these transport planes would touch down on this runway, drop the back door, and fleets of white Land Cruisers would pour out with aid workers.
所以你可以想象，到那时，当他们全天候引进运输机时，这些运输机会降落在这条跑道上，放下后门，一队队白色陆地巡洋舰就会带着救援人员涌出。
They were bringing in water sanitation and vast plumbing systems.
他们带来了水卫生设施和庞大的管道系统。
They were bringing in every known kind of sanitation engineer from all over the world.
他们从世界各地引进了各种已知的卫生工程师。
And this is the International Red Cross, some of the groups were--
这是国际红十字会，其中一些组织是——
Literally there were scores, perhaps more than 100, private organizations.
从字面上看，有数十个，也许超过 100 个私人组织。
There were many smaller Christian organizations and church-based organizations.
有许多较小的基督教组织和教会组织。
You had Caritas from six or seven different countries.
你们有来自六七个不同国家的明爱。
You had World Vision.
你有世界宣明会。
They all come in with their flags.
他们都带着旗帜进来。
It was a traffic jam.
当时正发生交通堵塞。
One of the things that you write is that very quickly Hutu power, which had conducted the genocide, took over the camps and established itself.
你写的一件事是，进行种族灭绝的胡图族政权很快就接管了难民营并建立了自己的势力。
Well, that's the terrible thing.
嗯，这就是可怕的事情。
What appeared to be a humanitarian disaster was, of course, really a political disaster.
当然，看似人道主义灾难实际上是政治灾难。
It was the consequences of a government that had sought to exterminate much of its people.
这是一个试图消灭大部分人民的政府所造成的后果。
And that government fled and presided over the camps.
该政府逃离并接管了难民营。
The same civic structures and political structures immediately replicated themselves, and there was enormous violence in the camps very quickly.
同样的公民结构和政治结构立即自我复制，难民营中很快就出现了巨大的暴力事件。
These camps were set up within a mile of the Rwandan border, so they were like terrorist bases right on the border.
这些营地设立在距离卢旺达边境不到一英里的地方，所以它们就像边境上的恐怖分子基地。
And in fact, the Hutu powers were staging raids from those bases.
事实上，胡图族势力正在从这些基地发动袭击。
Regularly.
经常。
There was killing going on wherever there were camps.
凡是有营地的地方，都有杀戮发生。
There was a very, very high murder rate surrounding them, basically, murder by the same militias who'd carried out the genocide.
他们周围的谋杀率非常非常高，基本上是由实施种族灭绝的同一批民兵谋杀的。
It was really quite an extraordinarily brilliant public relations move, frankly, by which the forces that had committed genocide almost immediately that they finished killing, managed to convert themselves in the public imagination into the victims of the catastrophe by becoming refugees, by exploiting our generosity with humanitarian aid, and by basically buffaloing our imaginations to the degree that we just imagined, oh, those poor people.
坦率地说，这确实是一个非常出色的公关举措，通过这一举措，那些实施种族灭绝的势力几乎在完成杀戮后立即将自己转变为公众想象中的灾难受害者，成为难民，利用我们的慷慨提供人道主义援助，并基本上将我们的想象力夸大到我们刚才想象的程度，哦，那些可怜的人。
We're giving them help.
我们正在给他们帮助。
Thank goodness we're doing something.
谢天谢地，我们正在做一些事情。
And the terrible thing I found, Ira, was whenever I'd go to visit these camps, I'd meet people who were more like me.
艾拉，我发现最可怕的事情是，每当我去参观这些难民营时，我都会遇到更像我的人。
Which is to say college educated, Western, nice European and American and North American men and women in their 20s who came over basically with the idea, I will do something that is simple and straightforward and good.
就是说受过大学教育的、西方的、好的欧美、北美20多岁的男女过来的基本上都是这样的想法，我会做一些简单、直接、好的事情。
There will be suffering.
会有痛苦。
I will learn how to get clean water to these people, how to dole out food to these people, how to help them dig trenches to dispose of their waste in a way that's safe for them.
我将学习如何为这些人提供干净的水，如何向这些人分发食物，如何帮助他们挖沟渠以对他们安全的方式处理废物。
I will do good, it will be unambiguous, and I will get some satisfaction from that.
我会做好事，毫不含糊，我会从中得到一些满足。
And I will also feel like I'm not a passive witness to the horrors of the world.
我也会觉得我不是世界恐怖的被动见证者。
And in fact, what they were doing is they were catering the horrors of the world.
事实上，他们所做的就是迎合世界的恐怖。
There's a place on page 166 in your book.
你的书第166页有一个地方。
If I could ask you to read.
如果我可以请你读书的话。
"In this regime, the humanitarians were treated rather like the service staff at a seedy, mafia-occupied hotel.
“在这个政权下，人道主义工作者的待遇就像是黑手党占领的破旧酒店里的服务人员一样。
They were there to provide food, medicine, housewares, an aura of respectability.
他们在那里提供食物、药品、家居用品，以及一种受人尊敬的光环。
If at times they were pandered to, it was only because they were being set up to be cheated.
如果有时他们受到迎合，那只是因为他们被设计来受骗。
If they needed to be brow-beaten, a mob quickly surrounded them.
如果他们需要受到殴打，一群暴徒很快就会包围他们。
And if they were essentially the dupes of their criminal guests, there were not unwitting about it.
如果他们本质上是犯罪客人的受骗者，那么他们也并非不知情。
And with time, their service effectively made them accessories to the Hutu power syndicate."
随着时间的推移，他们的服务实际上使他们成为胡图族势力集团的附属品。”
And essentially they were keeping the whole thing going by providing the food and the blankets and all that for the Hutu powers.
本质上，他们通过为胡图族势力提供食物和毯子等来维持整个事情的进行。
Through that entire period, it was this really self-evident thing that as long as those camps existed, there was an effort by the militias in the camps, by the Hutu power militias in the camps from Rwanda to start to ethnically cleanse regions around the camps.
在整个时期，这是一件不言而喻的事情，只要这些难民营存在，难民营中的民兵，卢旺达难民营中的胡图族势力民兵就开始对难民营周围地区进行种族清洗。
In case one day those camps were closed, they could create a rear base.
万一有一天这些营地被关闭，他们可以建立一个后方基地。
So they started massacring people in the mountains.
于是他们开始在山里屠杀人民。
They started massacring the people in their host countries.
他们开始屠杀东道国的人民。
It created tremendous turmoil.
它造成了巨大的动荡。
And there was a complete unwillingness to confront this.
人们完全不愿意面对这一点。
And sometimes they would say, well, you know, like a doctor who takes an oath to treat somebody whether he's a murderer or a good man, we, too, operate on the principle that one should give aid to people and leave the political questions to political people.
有时他们会说，嗯，你知道，就像一名医生宣誓要治疗某人，无论他是杀人犯还是好人，我们也遵循这样的原则：一个人应该向人民提供援助，而把政治问题留给政治人士。
But there's a very big difference between neutrality and ignorance.
但中立和无知之间有很大的区别。
And it's one thing to say, well, I'm going to feed this guy even if somebody else tells me he's a criminal because my job is simply to feed people.
说，好吧，即使其他人告诉我他是罪犯，我也会养活这个人，这是一回事，因为我的工作只是养活人们。
But it's another to say, I don't want to know he's a murderer because that, in some way, taints my experience here.
但另一种说法是，我不想知道他是杀人犯，因为这在某种程度上玷污了我在这里的经历。
And I found that that was quite often what I heard.
我发现这就是我经常听到的。
And that was very disturbing.
这非常令人不安。
Now, in your book, you also talk about ordinary Rwandans who try to help out and save people in ways that they can.
现在，在您的书中，您还谈到了普通卢旺达人，他们试图以力所能及的方式帮助和拯救人们。
And one of the people who you talk about is the manager of a hotel named-- I'm not sure I can pronounce his last name-- Paul Rusesabagina?
你谈论的其中一个人是一家酒店的经理，他的名字叫——我不确定我能念出他的姓氏——Paul Rusesabagina吗？
Yeah.
是的。
In Kigali, there's one basically world-class hotel, sort of the best hotel in town, the Hotel des Mille Collines.
在基加利，有一家基本上是世界一流的酒店，可以说是城里最好的酒店，那就是 Hotel des Mille Collines。
And it turned out that Paul, who had been put in charge of the hotel, had used all of his considerable human resources, as well as his liquor cabinet, and all of his connections to the ruling, military, and political elite, to continuously buy the security of his guests for as long as he could, until eventually they were saved by a prisoner exchange.
事实证明，负责酒店的保罗利用了他所有的人力资源，以及他的酒柜，以及他与统治者、军事和政治精英的所有关系，尽可能长时间地不断购买客人的安全，直到最终通过囚犯交换来拯救他们。
The way you describe him, he comes off like Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca.
按照你对他的描述，他就像《卡萨布兰卡》中的亨弗莱·鲍嘉一样。
He was a very reserved man.
他是一个非常保守的人。
Ira Glass But one of the things he tells you is that one of his main weapons is that he always had alcohol.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）但他告诉你的一件事是，他的主要武器之一就是他总是喝酒。
No matter how long into the crisis it was, he saw that they had alcohol in the hotel.
不管危机持续多久，他都看到他们在酒店里有酒。
And everybody wanted it, and he would serve the Hutu leaders, and apparently he would bribe people when he needed to.
每个人都想要它，他会为胡图族领导人服务，显然他会在需要时贿赂人们。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
He described how he would give out these gifts of alcohol to people who would come by.
他描述了他将如何向前来的人们赠送这些酒类礼物。
And in that way, they would be almost like it was the goose with the golden egg.
这样一来，他们就几乎就像是鸡生金蛋了。
You didn't want to kill him because then the supply would dry up.
你不想杀了他，因为那样供应就会枯竭。
He had set up a whole elaborate commerce.
他建立了一套复杂的商业体系。
And so the leaders would come to the hotel and he'd give them a little bit to drink.
所以领导们会来酒店，他会给他们喝一点。
And his condition was you leave my hotel alone.
他的条件是你别碰我的旅馆。
And he'd negotiate for the things he wanted.
他会通过谈判获得他想要的东西。
He also used alcohol to buy food so that his people wouldn't starve.
他还用酒精来购买食物，这样他的人民就不会挨饿。
The water had been cut to the hotel, and the guests were forced to drink the swimming pool.
酒店已断水，客人被迫喝游泳池水。
But he managed to keep them going.
但他设法让他们继续前进。
You describe a number of times when the phone rings.
您描述了电话铃响的次数。
I'll take one in particular.
我会特别选一个。
A phone rings and wakes him up.
电话铃响了，把他吵醒了。
And a lieutenant says to him, have everyone out of the hotel in 30 minutes.
一名中尉对他说，30 分钟内让所有人离开酒店。
They're being rounded up.
他们正在被围捕。
Yeah.
是的。
This was about 6:30 in the morning one day.
那是一天早上6点30分左右。
And he's being told to relinquish all of the guests in his hotel.
他被告知要放弃酒店里的所有客人。
In many ways, his principle was that of a man who believed in the ethic of hospitality.
从很多方面来说，他的原则都是一个信奉好客道德的人的原则。
They're my guests, I must protect them.
他们是我的客人，我必须保护他们。
He told this lieutenant, look, give me half an hour to get up, get washed, and I'll deal with you then.
他告诉这位中尉，你看，给我半个小时的时间起床，洗漱，然后我来对付你。
And in that half hour, one thing that he had that was one of his weapons was a phone line.
在那半个小时里，他拥有的一件武器就是电话线。
And he used it to call all over the world.
他用它给世界各地打电话。
And he immediately called to Europe, he called to the French foreign ministry.
他立即打电话给欧洲，他打电话给法国外交部。
Now, France was the primary political patron of the genocidal regime at that time.
现在，法国是当时种族灭绝政权的主要政治赞助人。
He called there and he spoke to people there.
他打电话给那里，并与那里的人们交谈。
He called Belgium.
他给比利时打了电话。
Within about 25 minutes, one of the top commanders of the military-- in other words, this lieutenant's superior-- and also somebody from the UN, showed up at the hotel.
大约 25 分钟内，一位军方最高指挥官——换句话说，这位中尉的上级——以及来自联合国的人出现在酒店。
And they came and they assured him that his guests would be OK.
他们来了并向他保证他的客人不会有事。
No foreign lives were risked.
没有外国人面临生命危险。
This wasn't a massive military intervention, but lives were saved.
这不是大规模的军事干预，但挽救了生命。
A lot of times, the kind of measures it took were just the smallest human response.
很多时候，它采取的那种措施只是人类最小的反应。
There's this story that you write about where this hotel manager, Paul, in the middle of May in sort of the worst of days, he is out running errands, I think trying to get alcohol for the hotel.
你写了这样一个故事，酒店经理保罗在五月中旬最糟糕的日子里，他出去办事，我想是想为酒店买酒。
And he comes back to the hotel.
然后他回到了酒店。
And he sees that the Interahamwe have broken in, the thugs have broken in.
他看到联攻派已经闯入，暴徒已经闯入。
And they're looking for his family, they're going through his own personal apartment.
他们正在寻找他的家人，正在搜查他的私人公寓。
And explain how he deters them.
并解释他如何阻止他们。
What happens?
会发生什么？
Well, he realized that these were some pretty uneducated militiamen.
好吧，他意识到这些都是一些没有受过教育的民兵。
And he ran into some of them on the stairs.
他在楼梯上遇到了其中一些人。
And he was dressed in a t-shirt and jeans or something.
他穿着一件T恤和牛仔裤什么的。
And he realized that they must assume that a manager would be a man in a necktie or a suit.
他意识到他们必须假设经理是一个打领带或穿西装的男人。
So when they said, have you seen the manager, he said, oh, yeah, the manager.
所以当他们说，你见过经理了吗，他说，哦，是的，经理。
He just went that-a-way.
他只是走了那条路。
And it was really almost like a classic Hollywood gag.
这真的就像一个经典的好莱坞笑话。
He said he just went upstairs as he ran downstairs.
他说他刚上楼就跑下楼。
And as he's running downstairs, he runs into another group.
当他跑下楼时，他遇到了另一群人。
And he tells them the manager must have gone the other way.
他告诉他们经理一定走了另一条路。
So he sends them all off spiraling in different directions.
所以他把他们全部送向不同的方向。
Yeah, the most basic, immediate wits.
是的，最基本、最直接的智慧。
But I think the key to Paul, in some ways, was his instinct that everything is negotiable.
但我认为保罗的关键，在某些方面，是他的本能，一切都是可以谈判的。
And it struck me how in some very basic way, he had simply refused to relinquish free will and relinquish judgment, which I think is the part that ties him to these other humanitarians who think that in the name of neutrality and humanitarianism they have to relinquish judgment.
让我震惊的是，他以某种非常基本的方式拒绝放弃自由意志和判断力，我认为这就是他与其他人道主义者联系在一起的部分，他们认为以中立和人道主义的名义他们必须放弃判断力。
He thought that it was because of judgment that he could be a decent man.
他认为正是因为有判断力，他才能成为一个正派的人。
It's interesting that the people who tend to come through well in the book are the people like Paul who are pragmatists, they're not idealists.
有趣的是，书中往往表现出色的人都是像保罗这样的实用主义者，而不是理想主义者。
Many of the do-gooders I met, or many of the people I felt who, in one way of another, conducted themselves well in these extraordinary times of extremity, were both pragmatic and shockable.
我遇到的许多行善者，或者我认为的许多人，他们在这个特殊的极端时期以某种方式表现得很好，他们既务实又令人震惊。
They still remained sort of indignant at wrongdoing.
他们仍然对不法行为感到愤慨。
They were not deeply cynical.
他们并没有极度愤世嫉俗。
And they thought that making distinctions really mattered.
他们认为区分确实很重要。
They were people who simply insisted on going on as if the world were upright and normal.
他们是一群单纯地坚持走下去的人，就好像世界是正直的、正常的一样。
And in that way, they helped to make sure that it would be.
通过这种方式，他们帮助确保了这一点。
As you watch the United States mobilize itself in its bombings of Kosovo, what are you thinking as you see that, given the US inaction during the genocide in Rwanda?
当你看到美国动员起来轰炸科索沃时，鉴于美国在卢旺达种族灭绝期间无所作为，你在想什么？
I think that sadly, the situation in Kosovo reflects the kind of institutionalization and bastardization of the concept of humanitarian action that we saw in a very different form in the response to the refugee camps after the Rwandan genocide.
我认为可悲的是，科索沃的局势反映了人道主义行动概念的制度化和混杂化，我们在卢旺达种族灭绝后对难民营的反应中以一种非常不同的形式看到了这一点。
We're claiming that we're bombing Yugoslavia as a humanitarian action.
我们声称我们轰炸南斯拉夫是出于人道主义行动。
But it's not.
但事实并非如此。
It's a war.
这是一场战争。
We're fighting against an army.
我们正在与一支军队作战。
We're trying to destroy an army.
我们正试图摧毁一支军队。
If our first objective was really, as we claim in the first week of this war, to protect the people of Kosovo, it's clear that we've actually put them in greater jeopardy at first, that their protection isn't the issue.
如果我们的首要目标真的像我们在这场战争第一周所声称的那样，是保护科索沃人民，那么很明显，我们实际上一开始就把他们置于更大的危险之中，保护他们并不是问题。
And the language of humanitarianism has increasingly become a masquerade for a variety of different forms of action or inaction in the international community to disguise political conflicts, as if our only concern were for the loss of human life.
人道主义的语言日益成为国际社会各种不同形式的作为或不作为的幌子，以掩盖政治冲突，仿佛我们唯一关心的是人命的损失。
And in that way, we end up with a series of muddled discourses and muddled motives that make it sound like if we're doing it, it must be good and often make it very hard for us to keep track of what, in fact, we are doing.
这样一来，我们最终会得到一系列混乱的话语和混乱的动机，听起来好像我们在做这件事，它一定是好的，而且常常让我们很难跟踪我们实际上在做什么。
The other thing that one just has to look at is how completely calculating those who conduct wars these days are.
我们还需要看到的另一件事是，现在发动战争的人是多么精于算计。
Well, this is the thing I was just going to say, is one of the things that comes through in the book is that the Hutu militia in the camps were very canny about exploiting Western attitudes towards them.
嗯，这就是我刚才要说的，书中提到的一件事是，难民营中的胡图族民兵非常精明地利用了西方对他们的态度。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
If I were right now trying to run a good insurrection somewhere in the world, the first thing I would do is I would appoint a commander or a minister or a general in charge of humanitarian manipulation.
如果我现在正试图在世界某个地方发动一场良好的起义，我要做的第一件事就是任命一名指挥官、部长或将军负责人道主义操纵。
Look at how it was used in the Yugoslav conflict during the Bosnia War.
看看它在波斯尼亚战争期间的南斯拉夫冲突中是如何使用的。
You repeatedly saw safe havens being created, generals using them to corral people, and then going in and slaughtering them knowing that the UN wouldn't defend them.
你反复看到安全避难所被创建，将军们用它们来围堵人们，然后进去屠杀他们，因为他们知道联合国不会保护他们。
And then in many ways, I think this isn't always the humanitarians' fault.
从很多方面来说，我认为这并不总是人道主义者的错。
I think that the political decision-makers, the policymakers and leaders who conduct our foreign policy often use humanitarian aid to hide behind.
我认为执行我们外交政策的政治决策者、政策制定者和领导人经常利用人道主义援助来躲在后面。
They use it as a screen to mask their own indecision and their own unwillingness to act.
他们用它作为掩护来掩盖自己的优柔寡断和不愿采取行动。
And it's essentially a way of making the gestures of concern without really seeking to resolve in any meaningful way the catastrophe.
这本质上是一种表达关切的姿态，而不是真正寻求以任何有意义的方式解决灾难。
Philip Gourevitch.
菲利普·古雷维奇.
His great, great book is called We Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed With our Families: Stories from Rwanda.
他的伟大著作名为《我们希望通知你，明天我们将与我们的家人一起被杀：来自卢旺达的故事》。
We spoke on the second day of the NATO bombing of Kosovo.
我们是在北约轰炸科索沃的第二天发表讲话的。
Well, our program was produced today by Nancy Updike and myself with Alix Spiegel and Julie Snyder.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由南希·厄普代克和我、阿利克斯·斯皮格尔和朱莉·斯奈德共同制作的。
Contributing editors Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, and Consigliere Sarah Vowell.
特约编辑 Paul Tough、Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin 和 Consigliere Sarah Vowell。
Production help from Jorge Just, Todd Bachmann, Sylvia Lemus, and Mickey Greenberg.
Jorge Just、Todd Bachmann、Sylvia Lemus 和 Mickey Greenberg 为制作提供了帮助。
Our story about Canalou was produced by Julie Snyder with help from Mary Wiltenburg.
我们关于卡纳卢的故事由朱莉·斯奈德在玛丽·威尔滕伯格的帮助下制作。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] If you'd like to buy a cassette of this or any of our programs, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago, 312-832-3380.
[鸣谢] 如果您想购买本节目或我们任何节目的磁带，请致电芝加哥的 WBEZ，电话：312-832-3380。
Or you know, you can listen to most of our programs for free on the internet at our website www.thisamericanlife.org.
或者您知道，您可以在我们的网站 www.thisamericanlife.org 上免费收听我们的大部分节目。
During the week that we were producing this episode of our program, a cartoonist named Jessica Abel sat with us documenting the process.
在我们制作这一集节目的那一周，一位名叫杰西卡·阿贝尔的漫画家和我们坐在一起记录整个过程。
She made a comic book about that.
她为此制作了一本漫画书。
You can get it on the website, again www.thisamericanlife.org.
您可以在网站 www.thisamericanlife.org 上获取它。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia who says that if you have any complaints about our Chicago-based radio program, just remember--
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理监督由 Torey Malatia 负责，他说，如果您对我们位于芝加哥的广播节目有任何投诉，请记住——
See, we're not Sikeston.
看，我们不是赛克斯顿。
We ain't never been, we'll never be.
我们从来没有，也永远不会。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。