120: Be Careful Who You Pretend to Be - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #120 | January 22, 1999 120: Be Careful Who You Pretend to Be Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 120 集 | 1999 年 1 月 22 日 120：小心你假装的身份 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass So Viola disguises herself as a man, takes a job working for this guy, who she promptly falls in love with.
序言 Ira Glass 所以维奥拉将自己伪装成一个男人，接受了一份为这个男人工作的工作，她很快就爱上了这个男人。
He believes the pretense, thinks Viola's a man.
他相信这个假象，认为维奥拉是个男人。
And so he has no interest in her.
所以他对她没有兴趣。
And at some point, her boss notices that Viola does seem to have a crush on someone and asks her about it.
在某个时候，她的老板注意到维奥拉似乎确实迷恋某人，并向她询问了此事。
Here's what happens.
事情是这样的。
This is actually the Shakespeare play Twelfth Night, second act.
这实际上是莎士比亚戏剧《第十二夜》的第二幕。
Viola's boss, the Duke Orsino, asks if her eye has fallen on someone she loves.
维奥拉的老板奥西诺公爵问她是否看上了她所爱的人。
Viola replies, "A little, by your favor." The duke asks, "What kind of woman is it?"
维奥拉回答说：“一点点，拜托你了。”公曰：“是何女子？”
Viola is, of course, in a difficult position because it's him that she loves.
当然，维奥拉的处境很困难，因为她爱的是他。
What kind of woman is it?
这是一个什么样的女人呢？
She replies, "Of your complexion." "She is not worth thee, then," he says.
她回答说：“你的肤色。” “那么，她不值得你，”他说。
"What years, in faith?" "About your years, my lord."
“老实说，多少年了？” “关于您的岁月，大人。”
Then they go on to talk about the woman that the duke is in love with, who is named Olivia, who doesn't like the duke at all.
然后他们继续谈论公爵所爱的女人，名叫奥利维亚，她根本不喜欢公爵。
And Viola tentatively brings up the notion, "What if there were some lady, as perhaps there is, hath for your love a great a pang of heart as you have for Olivia?" He replies that no woman could feel for him as deeply as he feels for Olivia.
维奥拉试探性地提出了这样的想法：“如果有某个女士（也许确实有）对你的爱情怀有像你对奥利维亚那样的强烈感情呢？”他回答说，没有哪个女人对他的感情能像他对奥利维亚的感情那么深。
And Viola has another one of these sad little moments, where she feels this compulsion to hint at her feelings for the duke without him understanding at all what she is driving at, because he thinks that she's a man.
维奥拉还有另一个悲伤的小时刻，她感到有一种冲动要暗示她对公爵的感情，而他根本不明白她的意图，因为他认为她是一个男人。
She says, "A woman can love as deeply as a man does.
她说：“女人可以像男人一样深爱。
My father had a daughter loved a man as it might be, perhaps, were I woman, I should your lordship."
我父亲有一个女儿，她爱着一个男人，也许，如果我是女人，我应该尊敬阁下。”
So the duke asks about this daughter of her father's.
于是，公爵询问了她父亲这个女儿的情况。
What's her history?
她的来历是什么？
"A blank, my lord.
“一片空白，陛下。
She never told her love, but let concealment, like a worm in the bud, feed on her damask cheek.
她从不诉说自己的爱意，却让隐瞒像萌芽中的虫子一样，在她锦缎般的脸颊上滋生。
She pined in thought, and with a green and yellow melancholy, she sat like Patience on a monument, smiling at grief."
她陷入沉思，带着绿色和黄色的忧郁，她像耐心一样坐在纪念碑上，对悲伤微笑。”
This is where things come to.
事情就是这样。
She loves him.
她爱他。
But she's pretending to be someone she's not, so her lie is like this membrane, separating her from him.
但她假装成别人，所以她的谎言就像一层膜，将她和他分开。
Even though he's standing right there, she cannot tell him how she feels.
即使他站在那里，她也无法告诉他她的感受。
The problem with pretending is that you can just be too successful.
假装的问题在于你可能会过于成功。
And someone will believe you.
有人会相信你。
And then you're stuck.
然后你就陷入困境了。
And of course, there's a second and a deeper danger that Shakespeare doesn't talk about in Twelfth Night.
当然，莎士比亚在《第十二夜》中没有提到第二个、也是一个更深层次的危险。
The real trouble that you can get into if you pretend that you're someone else is not that other people are going to believe it.
如果你假装自己是别人，你可能遇到的真正麻烦不是别人会相信你。
It's that you'll start to believe it yourself.
而是你自己会开始相信这一点。
And then you're just living in a dream.
然后你就只是活在梦里了。
You see so many public figures-- senators, for example-- who are so enamored with the fact that they are, in fact, senators of the United States of America.
你会看到很多公众人物——例如参议员——他们如此着迷于自己实际上是美利坚合众国参议员的事实。
They turn into these cartoon people.
他们变成了这些卡通人物。
You look at them, and you just get the feeling that they never stop saying to themselves, "I am the senator." They go mad.
你看着他们，你就会感觉到他们从未停止对自己说：“我是参议员。”他们发疯了。
And this happens in all sorts of ways, large and small, people pretending all sorts of things.
这种情况以各种大大小小的方式发生，人们假装各种各样的事情。
That they feel things they don't really feel, that they are things that they, in fact, are not.
他们感觉到的东西并不是他们真正感觉到的东西，他们实际上并不是这样的东西。
The craziest people are the ones who come to believe their own lies, in their families, at their jobs.
最疯狂的人是那些开始相信自己、家庭、工作中的谎言的人。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台，这就是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Be Careful Who You Pretend to Be.
今天的节目，小心你假装的身份。
We have three cautionary tales for you.
我们为您准备了三个警示故事。
Act One, Doing Good by Doing Bad, what happens when a nice guy gets a job where all day long, he is supposed to pretend that he's a son of a bitch.
第一幕，通过做坏事做好事，当一个好人找到一份整天假装自己是个王八蛋的工作时，会发生什么。
How does it affect him?
这对他有何影响？
Act Two, Psychobabble, Qu'est-ce Que C'est.
第二幕，Psychobabble，Qu'est-ce Que C'est。
Jack Hitt tells a true story of those innocent days back in the '70s when going to a church retreat meant back rubs and encounter group sessions and role-playing games, and how he personally witnessed the role-playing game to end all role-playing games.
杰克·希特讲述了一个真实的故事，讲述了七十年代那些天真无邪的日子，当时去教堂静修意味着背部按摩，遇到小组会议和角色扮演游戏，以及他如何亲眼目睹角色扮演游戏结束所有角色扮演游戏。
Act Three, What's So Funny About Peace, Love, and Understanding?
第三幕，和平、爱和理解有什么好笑的？
Reporter Alix Spiegel heads out with a group of mostly white suburbanites who are on a mission to understand the African-American slave experience by pretending to be African-American slaves.
记者阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 (Alix Spiegel) 与一群以白人为主的郊区居民出发，他们的任务是通过假装是非裔美国奴隶来了解非裔美国奴隶的经历。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Doing Good by Doing Bad.
第一幕，以恶行善。
What happens when you're pretending to be somebody horrible every day?
当你每天假装成一个可怕的人时会发生什么？
How does it change you?
它如何改变你？
Ron Copeland worked for a union for 27 years, left that work.
罗恩·科普兰 (Ron Copeland) 在工会工作了 27 年，后来辞去了工作。
And then he saw an ad in the paper calling for people who like children, who like to teach history in an innovative way.
然后他在报纸上看到一则广告，呼吁那些喜欢孩子、喜欢以创新方式教授历史的人。
And this led him to a job as a historical interpreter at the Conner Prairie Living History Museum, outside of Indianapolis.
这使他在印第安纳波利斯郊外的康纳草原生活历史博物馆找到了一份历史翻译的工作。
For several months a year, in his job, he pretends to be a slaveowner in the old South.
每年有几个月，他在工作中假装自己是旧南方的奴隶主。
People come looking to experience the slave experience.
人们来这里是为了体验奴隶的经历。
He screams at them.
他对他们尖叫。
He orders them around.
他命令他们。
He treats them terribly.
他对待他们很糟糕。
He talked about his job with This American Life producer Alix Spiegel.
他与《美国生活》制片人阿利克斯·斯皮格尔谈论了他的工作。
It was very hard.
这非常困难。
At first we couldn't really scream at them.
起初我们真的无法对他们尖叫。
It was not in our makeup to actually talk to the people in rough tones and voices.
用粗鲁的语气和声音与人交谈并不符合我们的性格。
You had to develop over a period of time.
你必须经过一段时间的发展。
It took us some time to start the yelling.
我们花了一些时间才开始大喊大叫。
It took us some time to get actually mean, and especially when you start talking to black people in that tone.
我们花了一些时间才变得真正刻薄，尤其是当你开始用这种语气与黑人交谈时。
So the very first time, it was not very loud at all.
所以第一次的时候，声音一点也不大。
I may have said "Get down here.
我可能会说：“下来吧。
You cattle, get down here.
你们这些牛人，快下来吧。
Get down here right now.
现在就到这里来。
Get on your hands and knees.
双手和膝盖着地。
Get down here in front of me."
到我面前来吧。”
Then the second time around, it was, "You slaves, get down here.
然后第二次，是：“你们这些奴隶，到这里来。
Get down on your hands and knees.
双手和膝盖着地。
Start getting down here.
开始从这里下来。
Put your eyes down.
把你的眼睛低下来。
Don't you be looking up at a white man.
你别抬头看白人。
You know you're not supposed to be looking up at me.
你知道你不应该抬头看着我。
Get your eyes down on the ground.
把你的眼睛低到地面上。
Get down here."
到这里来吧。”
The harshest is, "Get down here today!
最严厉的是：“今天就到这里来！
Get down here right now!
现在就到这里来吧！
Don't you be looking up at me!
你别抬头看我！
Get down here right now!
现在就到这里来吧！
You bucks, get over here.
你们这些土豪，过来吧。
Let me see you.
让我见见你。
Don't look up at me.
别抬头看我。
Are you looking up at me?"
你抬头看着我吗？”
And what you want to do is you want to get their attention very quickly.
你想要做的是你想要很快引起他们的注意。
Then you start working upon their emotions.
然后你开始研究他们的情绪。
You look for that little weakness in a person.
你会寻找一个人身上的小弱点。
If you find a weakness, then you start playing on that weakness.
如果你发现了弱点，那么你就开始利用这个弱点。
If you see a lady start batting her eyes and start flinching a little bit, you work on her.
如果你看到一位女士开始眨眼睛并且开始有点退缩，你就对她下手了。
Tell her, you're going to keep her for yourself.
告诉她，你要把她据为己有。
She's going to be away from the rest of the group.
她将远离小组的其他成员。
They're going to go on without her.
没有她，他们还要继续下去。
She belongs to you.
她属于你。
You put fear in her.
你给她带来了恐惧。
Now it may sound funny to you, but it's like the military.
这对你来说可能听起来很有趣，但这就像军队。
The first thing they do in the military is they break you down.
他们在军队做的第一件事就是击垮你。
And then they put you back as a unit.
然后他们把你们作为一个整体放回去。
And that's what you're trying to do with these folks.
这就是你想要对这些人做的事情。
I even went so far last night to get a big order of onion rings so that you got that onion breath to get right in their face.
昨晚我什至特意去买了一大份洋葱圈，这样洋葱的气息就可以直接喷在他们脸上。
Because you want them to really feel you, to sense you.
因为你希望他们真正感受到你，感受到你。
It's in the dark.
这是在黑暗中。
If you get right up in their face, and you got that tobacco smell and onion breath and all this, garlic breath, they're wanting to back away from you.
如果你站在他们面前，闻到烟草味、洋葱味以及大蒜味，他们就会想远离你。
And the more they back, the closer you get to them.
他们回馈的越多，你与他们的距离就越近。
I like to walk around behind them and talk to them.
我喜欢走在他们身后并与他们交谈。
But they don't know which one you're talking to.
但他们不知道你在跟哪一个说话。
And you say, well, that one right there, I think she'd be good for breeding, because look at those hips on her.
你说，好吧，就在那里，我认为她很适合繁殖，因为看看她的臀部。
And you're standing behind three women.
而你站在三个女人后面。
They're all standing there thinking, "Is he talking about me?
他们都站在那里想：“他是在说我吗？
Is he making that remark about me?"
他是这么说我的吗？”
You're not making it about any one of them.
你不会对他们中的任何一个人产生影响。
You're just saying it.
你只是说说而已。
But they don't know that.
但他们不知道这一点。
Or you get up behind them.
或者你站到他们后面。
They can feel you're behind them.
他们能感觉到你在他们身后。
They know you're back there.
他们知道你回来了。
You can sense a person's back there.
你可以感觉到背后有一个人。
But you don't say a word.
但你一句话也不说。
It puts them on an edge.
这让他们处于边缘。
Anything you can do to scare them, to agitate them, to isolate them, you push.
任何你能做的事情来吓唬他们、激怒他们、孤立他们，你都在推动。
There was many a nights, when we first started the program, that I would go home and lay awake all night, because it's emotionally, in your head, this is wrong.
有很多个夜晚，当我们第一次开始这个计划时，我会回家整晚都睡不着，因为在你的情感上，在你的头脑中，这是错误的。
You're doing something that's very wrong.
你正在做一些非常错误的事情。
Even though you're trying to show history to them and make it realistic for them, it's still very hard, because it's not our nature to act like that.
即使你试图向他们展示历史并使其变得现实，但这仍然非常困难，因为那样做不是我们的本性。
You see somebody tear up.
你看到有人流泪。
Well, I'm kind of a softie, anyway.
好吧，无论如何，我是一个软弱的人。
And it hurt me.
这伤害了我。
I'm thinking, "I'm too rough on her." If it's an older person, you're thinking, "Am I going to make that person have a heart attack?"
我在想，“我对她太粗暴了。”如果是老年人，你会想：“我会让那个人心脏病发作吗？”
Now Monday, I done a program out here.
现在星期一，我在这里完成了一个计划。
And I had a young girl.
我有一个年轻的女孩。
And I told her she was going to do this.
我告诉她她会这么做。
And I screamed at her and made her get over in the corner.
我对她尖叫，让她躲到角落里。
And she started crying and started bawling.
她开始哭泣并嚎啕大哭。
And it's very hard then.
那时就很难了。
And I had to come out of it to a point of where I said, "Well you's too skinny.
我必须走出困境，直到我说：“好吧，你太瘦了。
I don't think you can cook.
我认为你不会做饭。
You wouldn't be very good at all having children," and all this, and then told her to get out of there.
你根本不擅长生孩子”，然后告诉她离开那里。
But you felt real bad.
但你感觉真的很糟糕。
As soon as she walked out, my first instinct was you wanted to go find out she was all right.
她一走出去，我的第一直觉是你想去看看她是否还好。
Because I know she's going to carry that home with her.
因为我知道她会把它带回家。
So it hurts.
所以很痛。
It hurts.
好痛。
Do you treat the blacks differently than you treat the whites?
你对待黑人和对待白人有什么不同吗？
We try not to.
我们尽量不这样做。
We try not to.
我们尽量不这样做。
What we try to do is we'll pick on a black one, and then we'll pick on a white one.
我们尝试做的就是选择黑色的，然后选择白色的。
And we try to give them equal treatment at the same time, so that we are not judging them.
我们同时尝试给予他们平等的待遇，这样我们就不会评判他们。
But do you find yourself treating them differently anyway?
但你是否发现自己对待他们的方式有所不同？
I would say, yes.
我会说，是的。
You do.
你做。
You do.
你做。
You can't help from it.
你无能为力。
You can't help from treating them just a little bit better than you would the white person.
你情不自禁地对待他们比对待白人好一点点。
Because with problems that we've had in the past, with the relations and the way that people have been treated at all, you don't know how you're going to push that person's trigger.
因为我们过去遇到的问题、人际关系以及对待人们的方式，你不知道如何触发那个人的扳机。
Oh, yes.
哦是的。
On a black person, I've let loose.
对于黑人，我已经放开了。
I've let loose and really called them stupid, ignorant.
我已经释放了，真的称他们愚蠢、无知。
"You're nothing but an animal.
“你不过是一只动物。
You're just like a child.
你就像个孩子一样。
I've got to teach you everything.
我必须教你一切。
You're just like a little animal.
你就像一只小动物。
You don't know a damn thing.
你他妈的什么都不知道。
What are you, stupid?" And just keep in their face constantly, talking to them on it and yelling at them.
你怎么了，笨蛋？”并不断地当着他们的面，与他们交谈并对他们大喊大叫。
And what are you thinking about yourself inside, when you're doing that?
当你这样做的时候，你内心在想什么？
Inside, your stomach is turning.
在里面，你的胃在翻腾。
It's constantly turning.
它不断地转动。
You can feel it knotting up inside.
你可以感觉到它在里面打结。
There's that little feeling in the back of your head, "You're not like this."
你的脑后有一种小小的感觉：“你不是这样的。”
Now have you ever had a moment in doing this where you were sitting there, yelling at somebody, and you were like, "I can imagine myself," or I can see how you could be this person?
现在你有没有这样的时刻，你坐在那里，对某人大喊大叫，然后你说，“我可以想象我自己，”或者我可以看到你如何成为这个人？
Oh, certainly.
哦，当然。
I've had a moment like that, that I could be that.
我曾经有过这样的时刻，我也能成为那样的人。
I've had them where I could see that I could have been that mean a person, if someone was being that stupid and that dumb and that defiant of me.
我有过这样的经历，我可以看到，如果有人那么愚蠢、那么愚蠢、那么蔑视我，我可能就是一个卑鄙的人。
I had a black lady.
我有一个黑人女士。
Now normally, that's been with whites.
通常情况下，这是白人的事。
But I had a black lady, and she was very defiant.
但我有一个黑人女士，她非常目中无人。
The look on her face, the look out of her eyes was a burning look.
她脸上的神情，她眼中的神情，都是灼热的。
I'm out there in the dark, and I could see them eyes piercing me.
我在黑暗中，我可以看到他们的眼睛刺痛着我。
And I tried to make her do some of the things, and it was like she was going to defy me no matter whatever I done.
我试图让她做一些事情，就好像无论我做什么她都会反抗我。
And no matter how close I got to her, I got within an inch of her nose from my nose.
而且无论我离她有多近，我的鼻子距离她的鼻子都只有一英寸。
And I was screaming at her.
我对她尖叫。
And I told her to look down.
我告诉她往下看。
And she would not bat her eye.
她连眼睛都不眨一下。
She would not even talk.
她甚至不肯说话。
And finally I come to the point.
最后我进入正题。
And I said, "Ma'am.
我说：“女士。
Tell you what's going to happen to you.
告诉你你将会发生什么。
I'm just going to kill you right here.
我只是要在这里杀了你。
Now do you care about that?" And she looked at me with those eyes.
现在你关心这个了吗？”她用那双眼睛看着我。
And they were very piercing.
他们非常具有穿透力。
And she says, "I guess you're just going to have to kill me because I'm not doing anything.
她说：“我猜你必须杀了我，因为我什么也没做。
Go ahead and kill me.
来吧，杀了我吧。
I'm not going to do it." And those eyes were burning into me.
我不会这么做。”那双眼睛灼烧着我。
And I'm thinking, if I was a slave buyer, I would have probably pulled the gun up and shot her right between the eyes.
我在想，如果我是一个奴隶购买者，我可能会举起枪，朝她的眼睛中间开枪。
Because she had pushed my trigger then.
因为她当时扣动了我的扳机。
I'm thinking, that's not right.
我想，这是不对的。
That's not right.
那是不对的。
But for that moment, I would have probably pulled the gun out and killed her, right then.
但就在那一刻，我可能会拔出枪杀死她，就在那时。
We've had some come through, saying that they feel like we're going beyond acting, that we actually get a kick out of being sadistic, like we are, which we don't.
有些人告诉我们，他们觉得我们超越了表演，我们实际上从施虐中得到了乐趣，就像我们一样，但我们没有。
We don't.
我们不这样做。
I can tell you that even one of the interpreters up there, it was his first time.
我可以告诉你，即使是上面的翻译也是第一次。
And he got into it so much that after the program was over, he was actually physically sick.
他太投入了，以至于在节目结束后，他的身体实际上感到不适。
Because it affects you that way.
因为它会以这种方式影响你。
He was physically sick meaning he threw up?
他身体不适意味着他呕吐了？
When you take off your costume, and you put on your civilian clothes to go outside and go home, you feel like 50 pounds has been off each shoulder.
当你脱掉戏服，穿上便装出门回家时，你会感觉每肩减轻了 50 磅。
All you want to do is get out of here and get back to your life at your home, today, in 1998.
你想做的就是离开这里，回到 1998 年的今天，回到家里的生活。
You don't want to think about that there.
你不想在那里考虑这个。
But you catch yourself driving home thinking about it.
但你发现自己在开车回家的路上思考着这件事。
That was really vicious.
那实在是太恶毒了。
That was really tough.
那真的很艰难。
And then when you get home, you try to get it out of your head.
然后当你回到家时，你试图把它从你的脑海中赶走。
I go and I sit in the living room.
我走过去坐在客厅里。
I get me a Coke.
我给我一杯可乐。
I sit there with no television on.
我坐在那里，没有开电视。
And I replay the entire night and go over it.
我会重播整个晚上并回顾一遍。
Did I do this right?
我这样做对吗？
Did I do that right?
我这样做对吗？
Was I too mean to this person?
是不是我对这个人太刻薄了？
Should I have done this?
我应该这样做吗？
So I sort of replay the whole thing.
所以我重播了整个事情。
And then I try to justify what I've done with myself.
然后我试图证明我对自己所做的事情是合理的。
I wasn't mean.
我并没有恶意。
I didn't treat that person too bad.
我并没有对那个人太坏。
I was backing off just a little bit.
我稍微后退了一点。
And I wasn't any worse tonight than I was last night.
今晚我的情况并不比昨晚更糟糕。
So I have not hurt anybody.
所以我没有伤害任何人。
I have not done anything.
我什么也没做。
So you sort of just sit there and talk yourself.
所以你就坐在那里自言自语。
It's a mental thing.
这是一个心理问题。
Do you ever feel now in going about the daily business of your life that you could get set off?
现在，您是否曾在处理日常事务时感到自己可能会被打扰？
I scream a lot.
我经常尖叫。
I do, little things.
我做的，小事。
My wife says that I tend to talk a lot louder.
我妻子说我说话声音很大。
It's more of I'm trying to tell people, not ask people.
我更多的是想告诉人们，而不是询问人们。
She said I've changed in that manner, to where it's not like I used to be.
她说我已经变了，和以前不一样了。
I was laid back.
我很悠闲。
I talked to people in a soft tone.
我用柔和的语气与人交谈。
But now, she says, you're more demanding.
但现在，她说，你的要求更高了。
You're more forceful in the way you do things.
你做事的方式更有力。
And it carries over.
它延续至今。
I'm sure it does a little bit.
我确信它确实有一点作用。
But we try to get rid of it.
但我们试图摆脱它。
Did you ever think that you could be this much of a sadist?
你有没有想过你可以成为这样的虐待狂？
No, never, never, ever could.
不，永远，永远，永远不可能。
My wife said there was no way, because I've always been the clown, the one that laughed, cut-up, good-natured.
我妻子说没办法，因为我一直是个小丑，那个爱笑、心碎、心地善良的人。
And I didn't truly, deeply think I could, either.
我也没有真正、深刻地认为我可以。
It has taken a period of time to build up.
经过一段时间的积累。
We started in March.
我们是三月份开始的。
We're in November now.
我们现在是十一月。
And I'm just now getting down to it.
我现在才开始认真对待它。
The screaming part I could do.
尖叫的部分我可以做。
But the actual getting mean, getting in the face, getting the scare, I didn't think I'd ever be able to do it.
但真正变得卑鄙、当面、受到惊吓，我认为我永远做不到。
So does that tell you something about yourself?
那么这是否告诉了你一些关于你自己的事情呢？
Well, I'm sure each one of us has got a mean streak inside of them.
嗯，我确信我们每个人内心都有卑鄙的一面。
And it has just got to be drawn out of them.
它必须从他们身上被提取出来。
Certainly, you question yourself and what you are, and what you thought you were.
当然，你会质疑自己，质疑自己是什么，以及你认为自己是什么。
So you question yourself.
所以你质疑自己。
How could I be this mean?
我怎么可以这么卑鄙呢？
Did I always have this in me?
我心里一直有这个吗？
Was I actually this way, and it's never came out before?
我原来是这样的，以前从来没有这样过吗？
Could I continue to be mean?
我还能继续卑鄙吗？
And you think about that a lot.
你对此思考了很多。
It's good we're only doing this program, I think, for a month, and give us time to get away from it and forget it and not do it again.
我认为，我们只做这个项目一个月，这很好，给我们时间摆脱它，忘记它，不再这样做。
Now if we had to do this on a regular basis, constantly, it might change some of us.
现在，如果我们必须定期、不断地这样做，它可能会改变我们中的一些人。
We might just become what we're acting out right now.
我们可能会变成现在的样子。
You think that's a real danger, that you would become--
你认为这是一个真正的危险，你会变得——
Oh, I think you could.
哦，我想你可以。
I think you could.
我想你可以。
I really do.
我真的这么做。
Because after being putting up with it so long, it just comes out of you.
因为在忍受了这么久之后，它就会从你身上流露出来。
We've all got that dark spot in there, inside of us, down in there deep.
我们每个人的内心深处都有那个黑点。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "THE BOY DONE WRONG AGAIN" BY BELLE AND SEBASTIAN]
[音乐播放 - 贝儿和塞巴斯蒂安的《男孩又做错了》]
Act Two, Psychobabble, Qu'est-e Que C'est.
第二幕，Psychobabble，Qu'est-e Que C'est。
There is the pretending we do individually, each of us, at our jobs, with our families.
我们每个人在工作中、与家人一起做的都是假装。
And then there's also a kind of industry of pretending.
还有一种假装行业。
It includes, of course, the production of stage plays and movies, and many different kinds of sales jobs, where pretending to like your customer and your product is the key to the job.
当然，它包括舞台剧和电影的制作，以及许多不同类型的销售工作，其中假装喜欢你的客户和你的产品是工作的关键。
And it includes various kinds of group therapies, the role-playing games that are used in certain clinical settings.
它包括各种团体治疗、在某些临床环境中使用的角色扮演游戏。
When it comes to this last category, Jack Hitt has been to the mountaintop.
当谈到最后一个类别时，杰克·希特已经到达了山顶。
He has seen what there is to see.
他已经看到了该看到的东西。
And he came back with this full report.
他带着这份完整的报告回来了。
If role-playing had a heyday, it was in the '70s, and I was there.
如果说角色扮演有过鼎盛时期，那是在 70 年代，而我就在那里。
And if it had a precise peak, a moment when it reached a kind of transcendence, after which all other role-plays were but pale, wannabe role-plays, I'd argue it was the performance of Mary Frances Leopold at Camp St. Christopher on Seabrook Island, the third week of June, 1974.
如果它有一个精确的顶峰，一个达到某种超越的时刻，之后所有其他角色扮演都变得苍白、自命不凡，我认为这就是玛丽·弗朗西斯·利奥波德在西布鲁克岛圣克里斯托弗营的表演，1974年6月的第三周。
As it happened, I was there too.
碰巧我也在场。
I come to you today to testify.
我今天来找你作证。
The backdrop, the Vietnam War, wage and price controls, the growing clamor for Nixon's resignation.
其背景是越南战争、工资和物价管制、要求尼克松辞职的呼声日益高涨。
I was 17.
那年我17岁。
Almost everyone I knew had been expelled from school or busted for drugs.
我认识的几乎每个人都曾因吸毒而被学校开除或被捕。
I had managed both.
我两者都做到了。
Extreme times called for extreme measures from our nation's clergy.
极端时期要求我们国家的神职人员采取极端措施。
And in Charleston, where I grew up, that meant only one thing, Father Ralph Byrd, youth minister.
在我长大的查尔斯顿，这仅意味着一件事：青年部长拉尔夫·伯德神父。
Right there in Charleston, there was even a group that was on the second story of Siegling's Music House that rented rooms.
就在查尔斯顿，甚至还有一群人在西格林音乐屋的二楼出租房间。
And a lot of those kids left home and went up there and lived.
很多孩子离开家去那里生活。
And their parents didn't want them to be there.
他们的父母不希望他们在那里。
I remember that place.
我记得那个地方。
That was the ice cream parlor.
那是冰淇淋店。
Yes.
是的。
Jack Hitt I used to hang out there.
杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）我以前常去那儿。
But I found out later that girls were being pressed into white slavery up there.
但后来我发现女孩们被强迫在那里沦为白人奴隶。
Well, some of Charleston's FOFs were up there, the Fine Old Families.
嗯，查尔斯顿的一些 FOF 就在那里，即“优秀的老家族”。
They were right up there.
他们就在那里。
And this was just terribly frustrating to the parents.
这让父母非常沮丧。
You mean having your daughter become a prostitute?
你的意思是让你女儿沦为妓女？
It's very frustrating, Ralph.
这非常令人沮丧，拉尔夫。
They didn't even know that, most of the time.
大多数时候他们甚至不知道这一点。
The ones that I dealt with, they just saw their child having left home.
我接触过的那些人，他们刚刚看到他们的孩子离家出走了。
Later, they would discover what was really going on, which was even worse.
后来，他们会发现到底发生了什么，那就更糟糕了。
My point is we discovered that parents were sufficiently frustrated and felt utterly unempowered.
我的观点是，我们发现父母感到非常沮丧，并感到完全无能为力。
And they said, "Have at it." I don't think they ever questioned us even once.
他们说：“努力吧。”我不认为他们曾经问过我们一次。
Despite the wicked times, Ralph managed to lure hundreds of my peers into the parish hall every Sunday night for something as cornball as fellowship.
尽管日子不好过，拉尔夫每个周日晚上还是设法吸引数百名我的同龄人来到教区大厅，进行一些像玉米球一样的团契活动。
How'd he do it?
他是怎么做到的？
He let us smoke.
他让我们抽烟。
And his other ingenious invention, used probably for the first time in Christianity's 2000-year history, was that he almost never mentioned the Bible.
他的另一个巧妙的发明是他几乎从未提及《圣经》，这可能是基督教 2000 年历史中的第一次。
Instead, he connived to make us discover the old Christian virtues on our own, using whatever encounter group stuff might do in a pinch, visualizations, back rubs, improvisations, storytelling, lying on the floor and going on fancy trips, blindfolded face explorations, games of self-revelation.
相反，他纵容我们自己发现古老的基督教美德，利用任何在紧要关头可能做的遭遇小组的东西，想象，背部按摩，即兴创作，讲故事，躺在地板上进行奇幻旅行，蒙住眼睛进行面部探索，自我揭露的游戏。
At the time, we ate it up.
当时我们就把它吃了。
We so longed to be emotionally intimate with one another, and Ralph had given us a language.
我们如此渴望在情感上彼此亲密，而拉尔夫给了我们一种语言。
I loved all those tricks, except one.
我喜欢所有这些技巧，除了一个。
Still to this day, the mere mention of the phrase makes me shudder, role-playing.
直到今天，一提到这句话就让我不寒而栗，角色扮演。
Oh, we'd do things like, boy cheats on the exam and is caught at it.
哦，我们会做这样的事情，比如，男孩考试作弊，被抓了。
And he loses his scholarship.
他失去了奖学金。
Now he has to tell his parents.
现在他必须告诉他的父母。
That's one.
这是一个。
Another one was, I stole stuff at Woolworth's, and I got away with it.
另一个是，我在伍尔沃斯商店偷了东西，然后侥幸逃脱了。
But now they want to give me an honor for being an outstanding Boy Scout or something.
但现在他们想因为我是一名杰出的童子军之类的而给予我荣誉。
And I know the truth.
我知道真相。
And how do I deal with that?
我该如何处理？
Sure, it sounds innocent.
当然，听起来很无辜。
But then came the summer of '74.
但74年的夏天到来了。
There was a two-week retreat at Camp St. Christopher that almost immediately began to go kaflooey.
在圣克里斯托弗营举行了为期两周的静修活动，几乎立刻就开始变得热闹起来。
Someone stole a boy's epilepsy medication, thinking it was Quaaludes, and another boy's father died.
有人偷了一个男孩的癫痫药物，以为是安眠药，另一个男孩的父亲去世了。
And then there was a racial incident, required at Bible camp in those days, that involved a black kid, who'd over-read a blond girl's expression of Christian amity.
然后发生了当时圣经营所要求的种族事件，涉及一个黑人孩子，他过度阅读了一个金发女孩表达基督教友好的言论。
Then a bunch of tough, upstate white boys went after the black kid.
然后一群强硬的北部白人男孩开始追捕那个黑人孩子。
And then a bunch of other elite white kids, in peace-loving liberal hippie drag, threatened to beat the snot out of the racists.
然后，一群其他白人精英孩子穿着爱好和平的自由主义嬉皮士装束，威胁要痛打种族主义者。
The camp was a swamp of raw emotion.
营地里充满了原始的情感。
So Ralph brought out the big guns, in this case a camper named Mary Frances Leopold, a teenager who, in the creaky vocabulary of the '70s, was described as feisty, spirited, strident.
于是，拉尔夫拿出了大手笔，这次的露营者名叫玛丽·弗朗西斯·利奥波德 (Mary Frances Leopold)，用 70 年代的老生常谈的词汇来说，她被描述为精力充沛、精力充沛、声音响亮。
That is, confident, capable, smart.
即自信、有能力、聪明。
Her assignment?
她的任务？
Ralph had decided that nothing would galvanize the camp like a good role-playing session.
拉尔夫认为没有什么比一场精彩的角色扮演课程更能激发营地的活力了。
If you remember the way the technique worked, we put a name tag on her.
如果你还记得这项技术的运作方式，我们在她身上贴了一个名字标签。
And we said-- I don't remember what we called her, something like Laura Smith or something, something other than her name.
我们说——我不记得我们怎么称呼她了，比如劳拉·史密斯之类的，除了她的名字以外的其他名字。
And you would introduce her at the beginning of the session.
你会在会议开始时介绍她。
That's correct.
这是正确的。
And we would create a story about this girl and tell people that she's 16 years old.
我们会创作一个关于这个女孩的故事并告诉人们她已经 16 岁了。
She comes from Charleston.
她来自查尔斯顿。
She goes to Porter-Gaud School.
她就读于波特高德学校。
We would create this story and make her a real person.
我们会创造这个故事，让她成为一个真实的人。
And then she would sit there.
然后她就会坐在那里。
And then she would be that person.
然后她就会成为那个人。
Word quickly spread at breakfast that morning that no one had seen Mary Frances.
那天早上早餐时，没有人见过玛丽·弗朗西斯的消息很快就传开了。
And we all noticed that no clergymen were in the cafeteria.
我们都注意到自助餐厅里没有牧师。
"They've been working her over since dawn," someone said.
“他们从天一亮就开始对她进行检查，”有人说。
"It's going to be big."
“它会很大。”
After breakfast, we all congregated in the rec hall.
早餐后，我们大家聚集在娱乐厅。
I couldn't help but notice that other ministers, not associated with the camp, were there, as if they knew something was up.
我忍不住注意到其他与营地无关的部长也在场，好像他们知道发生了什么事。
The bishop was there.
主教在那里。
Ralph got up on stage and explained that Mary Frances's character, Laura Smith, was a girl who had really opened up in her small group, the little encounter groups of eight campers that met twice a day to share intimacies and do trust exercises.
拉尔夫上台解释说，玛丽·弗朗西斯饰演的劳拉·史密斯是一个在她的小团体中真正敞开心扉的女孩，这个小团体由八名营员组成，每天见面两次，分享亲密关系并进行信任练习。
This character, Laura, we'd soon learn, had confided with them that she'd had an illegal abortion.
我们很快就会得知，这个角色劳拉向他们吐露了她非法堕胎的事实。
And then two other people in her small group had broken the rules and gossiped the news around the camp.
然后，她的小团体中的另外两个人违反了规定，在营地里散布消息。
A couple of people had called her a slut.
有几个人称她为荡妇。
Here's how the role-playing worked.
以下是角色扮演的运作方式。
Each of the real small groups were to send up two campers to play the blabbers, whose job now was to talk to Laura as she sat at the camp office with her bags, so humiliated she had decided to leave.
每个真正的小团体都派出两名营员来扮演喋喋不休的角色，他们现在的工作是与劳拉交谈，而劳拉则带着行李坐在营地办公室，她感到非常羞辱，决定离开。
She emerges through that side door in the rec hall and goes to the stage, and without so much as a word, sits in a chair.
她从娱乐厅的侧门出来，走到舞台上，一言不发地坐在椅子上。
And she just looks away, and doesn't say a word.
而她只是移开视线，一言不发。
We're all looking at her, but she's not there.
我们都在看着她，但她不在那儿。
And now everybody is very scared.
现在每个人都非常害怕。
[LAUGHTER] Jack Hitt You remember, my group was the first group to send up two people.
[笑声] Jack Hitt 你还记得吗，我的小组是第一个派出两个人的小组。
And I remember my group, the two folks go up there.
我记得我的团队，两个人去了那里。
And they sit in their chair.
他们坐在椅子上。
And I think the girl was the first to try to open her mouth.
我认为这个女孩是第一个尝试张开嘴的人。
She said "Now, Laura.
她说：“现在，劳拉。
I realize you must be hurt." And Mary Frances just whipped around.
我知道你一定受伤了。”玛丽·弗朗西斯刚刚转过身来。
It was something out of The Exorcist, where her head seemed to do a 360.
这就像《驱魔人》中的场景，她的头似乎在旋转 360 度。
And she just burst forth with just the most horrible obscenities, eyes burning, at these two people, and just "[BLEEP] you, you goddamn bastards!" And then the obscenities just continued to fly.
她只是对这两个人说出了最可怕的猥亵的话，眼睛燃烧着，然后只是“[哔]你们，你们这些该死的混蛋！”然后污言秽语就继续满天飞。
And you never said those kinds of words in 1972 to anybody.
1972 年你从未对任何人说过这样的话。
In front of the bishop, in front of all the clergy, and in front of everybody?
在主教面前，在所有神职人员面前，在所有人面前？
It was unbelievable.
这太令人难以置信了。
I think those people actually backed up on the stage.
我认为那些人实际上在舞台上支持了。
I do know that in the audience, the room went electric after that.
我确实知道，在那之后，观众席上充满了电光。
And everyone realized that going up on that stage was like marching to the guillotine.
每个人都意识到，登上那个舞台就像走向断头台。
It was breathtaking, nerve-wracking, stunning.
这是令人叹为观止、令人紧张、令人惊叹的。
Mary Frances kept switching her tactics, slaughtering every fresh couple.
玛丽·弗朗西斯不断改变策略，屠杀每一对新婚夫妇。
10 went up, and 10 came down, utterly shaken.
10 个上去，10 个下来，完全震动了。
One time, she just stared at the couple and said nothing, absolutely nothing.
有一次，她只是盯着这对夫妇，什么也没说，绝对什么也没说。
With the next pair, she argued logically.
对于接下来的一对，她进行了合乎逻辑的争论。
With the next, she collapsed and began crying scalding tears of pain.
接下来，她崩溃了，开始流下痛苦的滚烫的泪水。
With each variation, the tension in the room grew.
随着每一次变化，房间里的紧张气氛都在加剧。
Whatever Ralph was trying to do with this game of pretend, to bring us together, to make us confront our guilt, to teach Christian empathy, the role-playing mainly succeeded in terrifying us.
无论拉尔夫试图用这个假装游戏做什么，让我们团结在一起，让我们面对自己的罪恶感，教导基督徒同情心，角色扮演主要成功地吓坏了我们。
I tracked down Mary Frances.
我找到了玛丽·弗朗西斯。
She's now a chemist near Silicon Valley.
她现在是硅谷附近的一名化学家。
25 years later, what she remembers is the aftermath of her role-playing.
25年后，她记得的是角色扮演的后果。
None of us at camp could quite get back to seeing her as just Mary Frances.
我们营地里没有人能完全把她视为玛丽·弗朗西斯。
So we all stayed away.
所以我们都远离了。
I think most of the people at camp were a bit colder.
我认为营地里的大多数人都有点冷。
And the people who normally would have smiled and been pleasant weren't quite as smiley and pleasant.
那些通常会微笑和愉快的人并不那么微笑和愉快。
And the people who were my friends talked a little bit about it, that it had been really frightening.
我的朋友们谈论过这件事，说这真的很可怕。
As we talked about it, she corrected me on one key aspect I had got wrong.
当我们谈论这个问题时，她纠正了我错误的一个关键方面。
I asked her where she'd found in herself so much anger to play out Ralph's scenario.
我问她从哪里发现自己如此愤怒，以至于要上演拉尔夫的剧本。
Then she straightened me out.
然后她把我拉直了。
It wasn't Ralph's scenario at all.
这根本不是拉尔夫的情景。
She made it up.
她弥补了。
I took it from other people's experience at camp.
我从其他人在营地的经验中得到了它。
And it turned out that someone else there had experienced that, had had an abortion.
事实证明，那里的其他人也经历过这种情况，并且堕过胎。
At this point, abortion had been legal for maybe six months or something.
此时，堕胎已经合法化了大约六个月左右的时间。
Well, this particular person had an illegal abortion and had talked about it at camp.
嗯，这个人非法堕胎，并在营地谈论过这件事。
And it had been gossiped about.
而且这件事还被人议论纷纷。
At that session?
在那次会议上？
Mary Frances Leopold Yes, at that particular session.
玛丽·弗朗西斯·利奥波德 是的，在那次特别会议上。
Can you hear my surprise?
你能听到我的惊讶吗？
I had repressed all of this, chalking up the power of the incident to Mary Frances's quote, "great performance." But of course, what made it so powerful was that contrary to what Ralph wanted, a nice exercise in guilt and absolution that we could experience synthetically, and therefore safely, it had become something far more devastating once given over to Mary Frances's genius.
我压抑了这一切，把这件事的力量归功于玛丽·弗朗西斯的名言“出色的表现”。但当然，让它如此强大的原因是，与拉尔夫想要的相反，这是一种我们可以综合地、因此安全地体验内疚和宽恕的良好练习，一旦交给玛丽·弗朗西斯的天才，它就变得更具破坏性。
The guilt she'd coaxed from us was real, because we all had gossiped about that girl.
她让我们感到内疚是真实的，因为我们都在谈论那个女孩。
We all really were those two people in the role-play.
我们真的都是角色扮演中的这两个人。
It was the most transcendent of all role-plays, because there was almost no role-playing at all.
这是所有角色扮演中最超凡的，因为几乎根本没有角色扮演。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "AVE MARIA" BY FRANZ SCHUBERT, SUNG BY DAME JANET BAKER]
[音乐播放 - 弗朗茨·舒伯特的《圣母玛利亚》，由珍妮特·贝克尔女士演唱]
Jack Hitt is a contributing editor to This American Life .
杰克·希特是《美国生活》的特约编辑。
Well, listen, Ralph.
好吧，听着，拉尔夫。
I'm going to let you get back to--
我会让你回到——
Praying for you.
为你祈祷。
Ira Glass Coming up, white suburbanites tote that barge, lift that bale, sing some old Negro spirituals, and otherwise pretend to be slaves in the old South.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 出现了，白人郊区居民搬运驳船，举起包裹，唱一些古老的黑人圣歌，或者假装自己是旧南方的奴隶。
Why they do it, what they get out of it, and what this game of pretend is all about.
他们为什么这样做，他们从中得到什么，以及这个假装游戏的意义是什么。
That's in a minute, from Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的各种不同的故事。
Today's program, Be Careful Who You Pretend to Be, cautionary tales about games of pretend that backfire.
今天的节目《小心你假装是谁》，讲述了关于假装游戏适得其反的警示故事。
We have arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了我们计划的第三幕了。
Act Three, What's So Funny About Peace, Love, and Understanding?
第三幕，和平、爱和理解有什么好笑的？
The idea is simple.
这个想法很简单。
We Midwestern suburbanites will not simply learn history.
我们中西部郊区的人不会简单地学习历史。
We will live history.
我们将活出历史。
We will become 19th century runaway slaves.
我们将成为19世纪的逃亡奴隶。
And for close to two hours, we will face their enemies.
在将近两个小时的时间里，我们将面对他们的敌人。
We will feel their fear.
我们会感受到他们的恐惧。
We will think their thoughts.
我们会思考他们的想法。
Then, when we drive back to our suburban homes, we will carry a small part of them back with us.
然后，当我们开车回到郊区的家时，我们会带回其中的一小部分。
And maybe this will teach us to think more kindly about our neighbors, or more carefully about ourselves, or both.
也许这会教会我们更加友善地考虑我们的邻居，或者更加仔细地考虑我们自己，或者两者兼而有之。
This is the idea.
这就是想法。
It says so in the promotional material.
宣传材料里是这么说的。
This is the program that Ron Copeland, the guy back in our first act, works for.
这就是罗恩·科普兰（Ron Copeland）（我们第一幕中的那个人）所工作的项目。
It's called Follow the North Star at the Conner Prairie Living History Museum, outside of Indianapolis, 1,400 acres with a small town, some forest, assorted barns and cabins and outbuildings, and dozens of performers in costume who are called historical interpreters.
这个名为“跟随北极星”的活动位于印第安纳波利斯郊外的康纳草原生活历史博物馆，占地 1,400 英亩，有一个小镇、一些森林、各种谷仓、小屋和附属建筑，还有数十名身着戏服的表演者，他们被称为历史解说员。
The program takes place at night, a sort of simulation of the Underground Railroad.
该节目在晚上进行，有点像地下铁路。
This American Life produce Alix Spiegel wanted to find out what it is that people actually get out of this game of pretend.
《美国生活》的制片人阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 (Alix Spiegel) 想知道人们从这个假装游戏中到底能得到什么。
So she joined in.
于是她也加入了。
We are here to be abused, humiliated, degraded, verbally and physically punished.
我们来这里是为了受到虐待、羞辱、侮辱、言语和体罚。
But before we get down to the business of being brutalized and reduced to nothing, we are briefed by a small woman in colonial dress who wants very much to impress upon us the serious nature of this program.
但在我们开始讨论被残酷对待和一无所有之前，一位穿着殖民地服装的小女人向我们介绍了情况，她非常想让我们记住这个计划的严肃性。
She tells us it will be difficult.
她告诉我们这会很困难。
There will be language.
会有语言。
It will be physically demanding.
这对体力要求很高。
We will be pushed and shoved and made to kneel down or lie on our stomachs.
我们会被推搡，被迫跪下或趴着。
Then she asks if there are any questions.
然后她问是否还有任何问题。
Yes, young lady.
是的，年轻的女士。
Girl 1 Do you suggest that we spit out our gum so we don't choke or anything?
女孩 1 你建议我们吐掉口香糖，这样就不会噎到什么的吗？
Yes.
是的。
Alix Spiegel For a group of people facing 90 continuous minutes of abuse, we are in a remarkably upbeat mood.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 (Alix Spiegel) 对于一群面临连续 90 分钟虐待的人来说，我们的心情非常乐观。
On the guided walk out to the first stop of the program, everyone's chattering, laughing, ready to wheel hell out of the driveway and take her for a spin.
在导游的带领下步行到节目的第一站，每个人都在聊天、大笑，准备把地狱推出车道，带她去兜风。
I think it's going to be fun.
我想这会很有趣。
Girl 3 I think it's going to be fun, but it's going to be scary.
Girl 3 我认为这会很有趣，但也会很可怕。
They could yell at us.
他们可以对我们大喊大叫。
I don't care about that.
我不在乎这个。
I want it to be intense so we know what they went through.
我希望它是激烈的，这样我们就知道他们经历了什么。
Although I've been told by the people running Follow the North Star that an equal number of black and white patrons attend the program, the people in my group are mostly white and mostly women.
尽管“跟随北极星”的运营者告诉我，参加该项目的黑人和白人顾客数量相等，但我的团队中的人大多是白人，而且大部分是女性。
The tone of the group is dominated by five 13-year-old girls, Sadie, Amanda, Rachel, Trish, and Britney, all friends from the same junior high school who read about the program in the paper and came because it sounded neat.
该团体的基调由五个 13 岁女孩主导，她们是萨迪 (Sadie)、阿曼达 (Amanda)、瑞秋 (Rachel)、特里西 (Trish) 和布兰妮 (Britney)，她们都是来自同一所初中的朋友，她们在报纸上读到了该计划，并因为听起来很不错而来到这里。
Then there's Linda, a blond-haired mother of two, who has brought her husband and two teenage children to the program because she feels it's important for them to have a learning experience, and Henry, who wears a long trench coat and identifies himself as a lover of history.
还有琳达（Linda），一位金发碧眼的两个孩子的母亲，她带着丈夫和两个十几岁的孩子来参加这个项目，因为她觉得学习经历对他们来说很重要；亨利（Henry），穿着一件长风衣，自称是历史爱好者。
There is Louise, a 34-year-old Quaker woman whose ancestors were part of the Underground Railroad, three 16-year-olds who are studying the Civil War, a handful of other adults, and finally, there's Pete and Alexander, the only African-Americans in the group, both in baseball caps and light-colored jeans, who are here, they say, to observe everyone else.
其中有路易丝（Louise），一位 34 岁的贵格会妇女，其祖先是地下铁路的成员；还有三名正在研究南北战争的 16 岁青少年，还有其他几个成年人；最后，还有皮特（Pete）和亚历山大（Alexander），他们是这群人中唯一的非洲裔美国人，都戴着棒球帽，穿着浅色牛仔裤，他们说，他们来这里是为了观察其他人。
Our guide leads us to the top of a hill, a small hump of land overlooking a dark valley.
我们的导游带领我们到达山顶，这是一个俯瞰黑暗山谷的小山丘。
At the base of the hill, we can see the flicker of a bonfire.
在山脚下，我们可以看到篝火在闪烁。
But beyond that, nothing, just the random black wilderness.
但除此之外，什么也没有，只有随机的黑色荒野。
We stand and ponder it for a minute while our guide gives us parting instructions.
我们站着沉思了一会儿，导游给了我们离别指示。
"Please refrain from attacking the interpreters." Then it's time to meet our master.
“请不要攻击翻译。”那么是时候去见见我们的主人了。
I want the bucks over here on the right side.
我想要把钱放在右边。
I want the breeders over on the left side.
我希望饲养员在左边。
Now move.
现在行动吧。
At the bottom of the hill, four men in costumes surround us and start screaming.
在山脚下，四个穿着戏服的男人围着我们，开始尖叫。
Everything is chaos.
一切都是混乱的。
Before I know what's happening, the lover of history is lying face-down in the grass, his arms spread wide like Jesus.
还没等我明白发生了什么，这位历史爱好者就面朝下躺在草地上，双臂张开，就像耶稣一样。
And the mother of two who felt her children needed an educational experience is on her knees, head down, blinking out at the ground, while her son stands 10 feet away with the rest of the men being, you know, educated.
这位两个孩子的母亲觉得她的孩子需要教育经历，她跪在地上，低着头，眨着眼睛看着地面，而她的儿子站在 10 英尺外，其他男人正在接受教育。
Don't look at me.
别看我。
You don't ever look at me.
你从来不看我。
Yes, sir.
是的，先生。
Man 1 What's your trade, boy?
男人 1 你是做什么生意的，小伙子？
What's your trade?
你是做什么生意的？
Answer me.
回答我。
Get down on your knees.
跪下。
What about you, boy?
那你呢，孩子？
You got a trade?
你有交易吗？
I like to work with metal.
我喜欢与金属打交道。
Man 1 Work with metal?
男士 1 使用金属？
You a blacksmith, boy?
小伙子，你是铁匠吗？
Yes, sir.
是的，先生。
Man 1 Tell me, what be a hardy?
男人 1 告诉我，什么叫坚强？
What be a hardy, boy?
小伙子，什么叫坚强？
You ain't no blacksmith.
你不是铁匠。
Get down there on your knees with that liar right there.
跪下，和那个骗子一起跪下。
Let's see your hand, boy.
让我们看看你的手，孩子。
You got gloves on.
你戴上了手套。
How can I see your hand when you got gloves on?
当你戴上手套时我怎么能看到你的手？
Get them gloves off.
把他们的手套脱掉。
The girls stand in silence, too scared to move.
女孩们静静地站着，害怕得不敢动弹。
Their heads are down.
他们低着头。
Their eyes are lowered, staring out at some invisible point just beyond and below their noses.
他们的眼睛低垂着，凝视着鼻子上方和下方某个看不见的点。
One of the masters snakes his way from girl to girl, working them over.
其中一位大师蜿蜒地从一个女孩到另一个女孩，对她们进行研究。
He leans in close with his lantern, so they can feel the heat of the flame on their faces, then starts screaming.
他把灯笼靠得很近，这样他们就能感觉到脸上火焰的热量，然后开始尖叫。
Two of the girls begin to shake.
两个女孩开始发抖。
Their lips tremble.
他们的嘴唇在颤抖。
Another girl ties on her white headband, a signal to the slave masters that she can't take it, and steps sideways out of line.
另一个女孩系上白色头带，向奴隶主发出信号，表明她不能接受，然后侧身走出队列。
13.
13.
Well, you's bein' a good breeder, then.
好吧，那么你是一个很好的饲养员。
We probably get 9 or 10 out of you, you know that?
我们可能会从你身上得到 9 或 10 个，你知道吗？
Sell them off, there, we could make us a lot of money.
在那里卖掉它们，我们可以赚很多钱。
No, sir.
不，先生。
Man 2 Then you say sir.
男人 2 那么你说先生。
Every time a white man talks to you, you answer him sir.
每次有白人跟你说话，你就回答他，先生。
You understand me?
你明白我的意思？
Yes, sir.
是的，先生。
Alix Spiegel It's surprisingly effective, a kind of collective hallucination so brutal and bizarre it makes you conscious of every detail around you.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔（Alix Spiegel）：这种方法出奇地有效，这是一种集体幻觉，如此残酷和怪异，让你意识到周围的每一个细节。
You notice the flattened blades of wet grass, the bluish tint of rubber on your shoe, the shadows of the fire, the acid smell of lantern fluid, the fold and texture of a scarf tucked into the coat of the person in front of you.
你会注意到湿草压扁的叶子、鞋子上蓝色的橡胶色调、火光的影子、提灯液的酸味、塞在你面前的人外套里的围巾的褶皱和纹理。
Get your eyes down, you understand?
把眼睛低下来，明白吗？
Answer me.
回答我。
Was that you?
是你吗？
Finally, the masters get tired of yelling and corral us into a single-file line.
最后，主人们厌倦了大喊大叫，把我们排成一排。
One of the masters leaves the other behind to march us up a hill.
其中一位大师留下另一位大师带我们上山。
He's waving his gun like a flag and barking out orders.
他像旗帜一样挥舞着枪，大声发出命令。
"Stay in line.
“保持队列。
Keep your eyes down.
低下眼睛。
March faster.
行军更快。
March slower." And perhaps most frightening of all, "Sing."
行进速度要慢一些。”也许最可怕的是“唱歌”。
Sing.
唱歌。
Sing.
唱歌。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "SWING LOW, SWEET CHARIOT"]
[音乐播放-“低摆，甜蜜的战车”]
In this context, the absurdity of white, suburban teenagers in Nikes singing Negro spirituals is actually kind of touching.
在这样的背景下，郊区白人青少年穿着耐克唱黑人圣歌的荒诞行为其实是有点感人的。
They march up the hill singing shyly.
他们羞涩地唱着歌上山。
And at the top of the hill, there's a waist-high pile of wood.
山顶上有一堆齐腰高的木头。
And then 20 feet away, there's a tree.
然后 20 英尺外有一棵树。
And our master instructs the women to carry the wood from the pile to the tree one piece at a time, and then instructs the men to move the wood back from the tree to the pile two pieces at a time.
我们的主人指示女人们一次将木头从树堆搬到树上，然后指示男人将木头从树上移回树堆，每次两件。
Now get to it.
现在开始吧。
Get moving.
行动起来吧。
Come on, quicker, quicker.
来吧，快点，快点。
One of the 16-year-old girls stumbles, and the master pulls her out of the group and tells her to stand by him.
其中一名 16 岁女孩绊倒了，主人将她从人群中拉出来，并让她站在他身边。
Come here.
过来吧。
Now I know you can yell.
现在我知道你可以大喊大叫。
Let me hear you yell.
让我听听你的喊叫。
Let me hear you yell.
让我听听你的喊叫。
Tell them to move the wood.
告诉他们把木头搬走。
Girl 5 Move the wood!
女孩5 搬木头！
Come here.
过来吧。
Don't worry.
不用担心。
Keep yelling at them.
继续对他们大喊大叫。
Move the wood!
搬木头吧！
Man 3 Now I'm going to go back and check on my friend.
Man 3 现在我要回去看看我的朋友。
And if I come back and you're gone, I'll shoot you in the leg.
如果我回来而你却走了，我就会朝你的腿开枪。
So keep yelling at them.
所以继续对他们大喊大叫。
Keep them moving.
让他们继续前进。
Move the wood!
搬木头吧！
Man 3 Keep them moving.
男人 3 让他们继续前进。
I want to be able to hear you.
我希望能够听到你的声音。
Move the wood.
移动木头。
Move the wood!
搬木头吧！
Move the wood!
搬木头吧！
Move the wood!
搬木头吧！
Move the wood.
移动木头。
Move the wood!
搬木头吧！
Now abandoned by our slavemasters, alone on the top of a hill in the middle of the night, with a 10th-grader acting as overseer, we continue to move the wood from the pile to the tree and back again.
现在，我们被奴隶主遗弃了，半夜独自一人在山顶上，由一名十年级学生担任监督员，我们继续将木头从木堆移到树上，然后再移回来。
No one makes a break for it.
没有人能从中逃脱。
There's no revolt, not even the hint of resistance.
没有反抗，甚至没有反抗的迹象。
We're broken.
我们破碎了。
It's taken 15 minutes.
花了15分钟。
Hurry up.
赶快。
Hurry up.
赶快。
Alix Spiegel Finally, our work is interrupted by a white woman in a full-length prairie skirt and bonnet who appears out of the darkness, another historic interpreter.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 最后，我们的工作被一位身穿草原长裙、头戴帽子的白人妇女打断，她从黑暗中出现，她是另一位历史性的诠释者。
She leads us into her barn and berates us at length, the main thrust of her tirade being that we are stupid and slovenly and should probably be sent back to Africa.
她把我们领进她的谷仓，对我们进行了长篇大论的斥责，她长篇大论的主要内容是我们愚蠢又邋遢，应该被送回非洲。
But in between insults, she manages to drop a series of useful survival tips for the runaway slave.
但在侮辱之间，她设法为逃跑的奴隶提供了一系列有用的生存技巧。
Seek out Quakers.
寻找贵格会教徒。
They will help you.
他们会帮助你。
Look for handkerchiefs tied to doorknobs or burning candles in windows.
寻找绑在门把手上的手帕或窗户上燃烧的蜡烛。
Those are signs that a Quaker is within.
这些都是贵格会教徒的标志。
Always send one person ahead to ask if they are a friend of a friend.
务必先派一个人询问他们是否是朋友的朋友。
That's the password, "friend of a friend."
这就是密码，“朋友的朋友”。
Then she leads us through a small wood to a dirt road which winds its way along a cornfield, points down the road, and tells us to look for a small cabin with a light in its window.
然后她带我们穿过一片小树林，来到一条土路，这条路沿着玉米地蜿蜒前行，指着路的方向，告诉我们寻找一间窗户里有灯的小木屋。
We tell her thank you.
我们告诉她谢谢你。
She tells us get off her land.
她告诉我们离开她的土地。
And the group moves down the road.
一行人沿着路走去。
How are you guys doing?
你们好吗？
Girl 2 Scary.
女孩2 可怕。
It's naturally scary.
这自然是可怕的。
You don't want someone pushing you around.
你不希望有人对你指手画脚。
I know.
我知道。
It's like they get all up in you.
就好像它们都在你身上。
This is how it was in real life.
现实生活中就是这样。
This is how it was.
事情就是这样。
And I feel so sorry for those people.
我为那些人感到非常遗憾。
I'm just happy that there were people that actually helped along.
我很高兴有人真正提供了帮助。
I know.
我知道。
Alix Spiegel Then I catch up to Pete and Alexander, the only two black guys in the group.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 然后我追上了皮特和亚历山大，他们是队伍中仅有的两个黑人。
How are you guys doing?
你们好吗？
Man 4 It's not as intense as I thought it was going to be.
Man 4 没有我想象的那么激烈。
Really?
真的吗？
Do you want it to be more intense?
你想要更激烈吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Alix Spiegel We jog down the road.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 我们沿着路慢跑。
In the distance to the left of the road, maybe 500 feet ahead, is a campfire.
在路左边远处，大约前方 500 英尺处，有一堆篝火。
We can see the outline of a small girl in the shadow of the fire.
我们可以在火光的阴影中看到一个小女孩的轮廓。
She's calling out to us, motioning with her arms for us to come to her.
她在呼唤我们，用手臂示意我们到她身边。
But the group hangs back, not sure how to respond.
但大家却犹豫不决，不知道如何回应。
Then out of the bushes, a man with a gun.
然后从灌木丛中走出一个拿着枪的男人。
It's a trap.
这是一个陷阱。
[SCREAMING] Alix Spiegel We book.
[尖叫]阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 我们预订了。
19 Midwestern suburbanites cum runaways set loose in the Indiana wilderness with no apparent chaperone are running for their lives as if, well, as if something actually depended on it.
19 中西部郊区的逃亡者在印第安纳州的荒野中逃亡，没有明显的监护人，他们正在逃命，好像，好吧，好像有什么东西真的取决于它。
In the night air, with my tape recorder bouncing a bruise into my hip, trying like hell to keep up with 13-year-olds, the wind on my microphone screwing up all hope of decent production values, I feel excited and, perversely, more free than I have in a long, long time.
在夜晚的空气中，我的录音机在我的臀部弹起一道瘀伤，我拼命地想跟上 13 岁孩子的步伐，麦克风上的风破坏了对体面制作价值的所有希望，我感到兴奋，而且相反，比我很长一段时间以来更自由。
It's not clear what we should do or where we should go or who we should trust, and this is perhaps the best part.
目前还不清楚我们应该做什么、应该去哪里、或者应该信任谁，但这也许是最好的部分。
I find myself giggling uncontrollably and realize that the idea that this simulation is about being transported out of my modern self and into a more authentic experience of slavery has completely evaporated.
我发现自己无法控制地咯咯地笑，并意识到这种模拟是为了摆脱现代自我并进入更真实的奴隶制体验的想法已经完全消失了。
Now it is not about understanding slavery.
现在不是关于理解奴隶制的问题。
It's about survival in an uncertain world, where people leap out at you and try to abuse you.
这是关于在一个不确定的世界中生存的故事，在这个世界里，人们会向你扑来并试图虐待你。
It's an old-fashioned race from the bogeyman, who is waiting behind every tree.
这是一场来自妖怪的老式竞赛，妖怪就在每棵树后面等待着。
Oh, gosh.
哦，天哪。
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
I can't breathe.
我无法呼吸。
I can't breathe.
我无法呼吸。
I was running faster than I've ever run in my life.
我跑得比我一生中跑得更快。
Shhh, now be quiet.
嘘，现在安静。
Girl 3 There it is.
女孩3 就是这样。
there it is.
就是这样。
There it is.
就在那里。
Our random, breathless flight deposits us exactly where the planners of this reenactment want us, 50 feet from a cabin with a candle in its window, refuge.
我们的随机、气喘吁吁的飞行将我们准确地送到了这次重演的策划者想要我们到达的地方，距离一个窗户里插着蜡烛的小屋 50 英尺，避难所。
The cabin is up a steep hill, so we congregate at the bottom, then send up a representative, Britney, to test the waters.
小屋位于陡峭的山坡上，所以我们聚集在山脚下，然后派出代表布兰妮上来试水。
Friend of a friend.
朋友的朋友。
Girl 3 Britney, Britney, Britney.
女孩3布兰妮，布兰妮，布兰妮。
Would you like a drink?
你想喝点什么吗？
Woman 2 Thank you.
女人2 谢谢。
You are most welcome.
非常欢迎您。
Woman 2 Can you help us?
女人 2 你能帮助我们吗？
Inside the cabin, a tall man who looks like a slimmed-down version of that guy on the Quaker Oats box pours us cold water from a tin pitcher, passes out flat circles of cornbread that look like small, yellow hockey pucks, and gives us a short history of Quakers and Quakerism, elementary-school-play-style.
在机舱内，一个身材高大的男人，看起来就像贵格会燕麦盒上那个人的瘦身版，从锡罐里给我们倒冷水，分发了看起来像黄色小冰球的扁平玉米面包圈，并以小学游戏的方式向我们介绍了贵格会和贵格会主义的简短历史。
We all sit cross-legged on the dirt floor, looking grateful and chewing hard on the cornbread.
我们都盘腿坐在肮脏的地板上，看上去很感激，用力咀嚼着玉米面包。
Then his wife gets up and tells us that their son, Moses, who's been warming himself by the fire, will escort us through town to safety.
然后他的妻子站起来告诉我们，他们的儿子摩西正在火边取暖，他会护送我们穿过城镇到达安全的地方。
There is another family in these parts.
这些地方还有另一个家庭。
Their name is Ward.
他们的名字叫沃德。
They are from North Carolina.
他们来自北卡罗来纳州。
And they are colored folk like thee.
他们是像你一样的有色人种。
I would suggest that thee seek out folks such as them.
我建议你寻找像他们这样的人。
Should slavehunters come through these parts, they will not know thee from the locals.
如果奴隶猎人经过这些地区，他们不会从当地人那里认识你。
May God be with thee as thee travel.
愿上帝在你旅行时与你同在。
Travel with Moses through the town.
与摩西一起穿越城镇。
Stay together as a group and travel silently.
一群人在一起，默默地旅行。
God be with you, friends.
愿上帝与你们同在，朋友们。
God be with you.
愿上帝与你同在。
Describe what's going on now.
描述一下现在发生了什么。
Describe what this looks like.
描述一下这是什么样子的。
There's a really big white house with a light on.
有一座非常大的白色房子，还亮着灯。
And there's some kind of cabin that's brown and has no lights on.
还有一种棕色的小屋，没有开灯。
And we're walking through this big path with trees surrounding us.
我们正走在这条大路上，周围都是树木。
And there's--
还有——
The laughing man leads us into his store, a narrow room with a dark wood counter that smells heavily of wax, and picks up a thick leather riding whip.
那个大笑的男人领着我们走进他的商店，一间狭窄的房间，里面有一个深色的木柜台，散发着浓重的蜡味，他拿起一根厚厚的皮革马鞭。
He walks over to one of the girls, then starts to slowly stroke her hair with the whip, from the top of her head down the length of her face, then under her hair to the skin on her neck.
他走到其中一个女孩身边，然后开始用鞭子慢慢地抚摸她的头发，从她的头顶到脸的长度，然后从她的头发下面到脖子上的皮肤。
He's got a big wad of tobacco stuffed in his cheek, and he keeps spitting it at our feet.
他脸颊上塞了一大团烟草，还不停地把它吐到我们脚边。
Ain't you tired of being out there, all that running and hiding and everything, hmm?
你难道不厌倦在外面跑、躲、躲什么的吗？嗯？
Ain't you, hmm?
你不是吗，嗯？
No, sir.
不，先生。
Man 7 Mm-hmm.
男人 7 嗯嗯。
Hmm.
唔。
Hmph.
哼。
What about you, little one, hmm?
你呢，小家伙，嗯？
You want to get back with your kin down there, hmm?
你想和你的亲人一起回去，嗯？
Want to get back with your kin?
想回到亲人身边吗？
No, sir.
不，先生。
Man 7 Don't care about them at all?
男人7根本不关心他们吗？
Hmm?
唔？
Don't you want to do that?
你不想这样做吗？
All you need to do is tell me what your master's name was down there.
你所需要做的就是告诉我你主人的名字在下面。
And old Ben will get you right back there.
老本会带你回到那里。
You want to get back with your folks again, don't you there, little one, hmm?
你想再次回到你的父母身边，不是吗，小家伙，嗯？
Old Ben's just trying to help you, you know that?
老本只是想帮助你，你知道吗？
You going to tell me, hmm?
你要告诉我，嗯？
The man with the whip decides that he's going to take us down South to sell us.
拿着鞭子的人决定带我们去南方卖掉我们。
Then Moses, the Quaker boy who is supposed to be helping us, decides that he's going to get the authorities and sic them on the man with the whip.
然后，摩西，那个本来应该帮助我们的贵格会男孩，决定去找当局，用鞭子惩罚那个拿着鞭子的人。
Then the man with the whip decides that he's going to put his fist through Moses's face.
然后拿着鞭子的人决定用拳头打摩西的脸。
This seems to impress Moses, and he offers to give the man with the whip $10 in gold coin to let us go free.
这似乎给摩西留下了深刻的印象，他提出给拿鞭子的人 10 美元金币，让我们自由。
The man with the whip decides that he likes this offer, with one exception.
拿着鞭子的人决定他喜欢这个提议，但有一个例外。
He pulls out one of the girls from the group and draws her body close to his.
他从人群中拉出一名女孩，将她的身体拉近自己。
She's young, not more than 16, and looks genuinely terrified.
她很年轻，不到16岁，看起来真的很害怕。
Tell you what I'm going to do for you, boy.
告诉你我要为你做什么，孩子。
I'm inclined to be interested in your offer a little bit, being alone by myself.
独自一人时，我倾向于对你的提议有点兴趣。
This one here looks like she please me quite a bit.
这里的这个看起来她很让我高兴。
Tell you what I'll do for you.
告诉你我将为你做什么。
I'll take your $10.
我拿走你的 10 美元。
You get this whole bunch out of here.
你把这群人带出去。
And I keep this one here to comfort me.
我把这个放在这里是为了安慰我。
There's no deal.
没有交易。
Man 7 Boy, you don't understand.
男人7 孩子，你不明白。
It's the $10.
这是10美元。
And I'll keep this wench.
我会留下这个女人。
And you get this rest of this rabble out of here right now.
你现在就把这群乌合之众赶出这里。
Or I'll blow your damn brains out.
不然我就打爆你的脑袋。
Get them out of here right now.
立即带他们离开这里。
Do it right now.
现在就做吧。
Do it right now.
现在就做吧。
The girl stands stricken while the rest of the group is pushed out the back door.
当其他人被推出后门时，女孩震惊地站着。
At first, the group takes off running, but we come up short about 200 feet into the forest.
起初，大家开始奔跑，但我们距离森林只有 200 英尺。
I'm going back.
我要回去了。
Come on.
快点。
Alix Spiegel Going back to get the girl is not supposed to be part of this simulation.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔（Alix Spiegel） 回去接女孩不应该是这个模拟的一部分。
We're supposed to debate whether or not to go back, weigh the moral choices, and realize that our survival means leaving people behind.
我们应该讨论是否要回去，权衡道德选择，并意识到我们的生存意味着把人们抛在后面。
There's a museum plant in the group, a man posing as a member of the paying public whose job is to keep us on track.
该组织中有一个博物馆工厂，一名男子冒充付费公众的成员，他的工作是让我们保持正轨。
He keeps telling the group to go, to forget about the girl.
他不断地叫大家走开，忘掉那个女孩。
He gets nowhere.
他无处可去。
Stay as a group.
保持团体状态。
And forget.
忘记了。
She's gone.
她走了。
Let's go.
我们走吧。
How do we know she's gone?
我们怎么知道她已经走了？
Man 9 You bring us all down because you're rushing ahead of everyone all the time.
Man 9 你让我们所有人都失望了，因为你总是冲在每个人的前面。
We have to go get her.
我们得去接她。
Girl 8 Together.
女孩8在一起。
Together.
一起。
This is the closest any of us get to a real test of what sort of slaves we'd be.
这是我们对自己会成为什么样的奴隶进行的最接近的真正考验。
And Pete and Alexander decide to be heroes.
皮特和亚历山大决定成为英雄。
They head back into the woods to save the girl, leaving the rest of the group behind to cower by some bushes.
他们回到树林里去救女孩，留下其他人躲在灌木丛中。
But about 50 feet into our insurrection, a man in costume with a large gun appears out of the forest, as if by magic, another museum worker, invisibly tracking the group's progress, intent on squashing the baby revolution in its cradle.
但是，距离我们的起义大约 50 英尺，一名身穿服装、手持大枪的男子从森林中出现，就像施了魔法一样，另一名博物馆工作人员在无形中跟踪着该组织的进展，一心要把这场婴儿革命扼杀在摇篮里。
Back that way.
往那个方向走。
Back that way.
往那个方向走。
Man 8 We can't do that, sir.
男人 8 我们不能那样做，先生。
It will be OK.
会没事的。
Back that way.
往那个方向走。
Alix Spiegel Less than five minutes later, the girl rejoins us.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 不到五分钟后，那个女孩又回到了我们身边。
She slips quietly into the group at the next stop, smiling sheepishly and saying that she escaped.
到了下一站，她悄悄地溜进了人群，不好意思地笑着说她逃走了。
In another 10 minutes, we're at the last stop of the program, in front of an old man in a long, black coat, black hat and black boots, who stands a foot and a half above us on a porch.
再过 10 分钟，我们就到达了节目的最后一站，面前是一位穿着黑色长外套、戴着黑色帽子和黑色靴子的老人，他站在离我们一英尺半的门廊上。
He looks down on us for a bit, then picks up his cane and walks slowly from one of us to the next, touching us softly on the shoulder and telling us what is to befall us.
他低头看了我们一会儿，然后拿起手杖，慢慢地从我们一个人走到另一个人，轻轻地碰触我们的肩膀，告诉我们将会发生什么。
You and you and you back there, you go to Cincinnati.
你，你，你回到那里，你去辛辛那提。
And you blend in with the folks there in Cincinnati and live a long and successful life.
你与辛辛那提的人们融为一体，过着漫长而成功的生活。
Now you and you, you get caught by the slave hunters, taken down to Georgia, and sold to work in the rice fields.
现在你和你，被奴隶猎人抓住，带到佐治亚州，然后被卖到稻田里干活。
You don't make it.
你做不到。
You drown crossing the river.
你过河就会被淹死。
Well, I get to live.
好吧，我还得活下去。
Girl 2 I'm predicted on being sold and taken to Georgia and working in the rice fields for the rest of my life.
女孩 2 我预计会被卖到佐治亚州并在稻田里度过余生。
Rachel's sold and gets taken to Georgia.
雷切尔被卖了并被带到佐治亚州。
We walk out onto a broad dirt path into the artificial white light of the museum.
我们走出一条宽阔的土路，进入博物馆的人造白光中。
We're directed into a debriefing room, where there are two long tables of ginger cookies and juice in flowered Dixie cups, food for the recovering slave.
我们被带进一间汇报室，那里摆着两张长桌，上面放着生姜饼干和装在迪克西花杯里的果汁，这是康复中的奴隶的食物。
There are about 20 other people in the room, other slaves from other groups, who feel the need to sit and talk about their experience.
房间里还有大约 20 个人，来自其他群体的其他奴隶，他们觉得有必要坐下来谈论他们的经历。
I circulate, asking everyone I see who they think they would have been if they had actually been born during this period.
我四处走动，询问我看到的每个人，如果他们真的出生在这个时期，他们认为自己会是谁。
And the answer, maybe not surprisingly, is always the same, whether the person I'm talking to is black or white.
或许并不奇怪，无论与我交谈的人是黑人还是白人，答案总是一样的。
I would be a hero.
我会成为英雄。
This means different things for the different races.
这对于不同的种族来说意味着不同的事情。
For the African-Americans in the group, it means that they would have fought being a slave.
对于该群体中的非裔美国人来说，这意味着他们会为成为奴隶而奋斗。
I'd definitely fight.
我肯定会战斗。
I'd probably end up getting killed.
我可能最终会被杀。
I would be pretty rebellious.
我会很叛逆。
I would be the one to try to run away.
我会是那个试图逃跑的人。
There's no way someone's going to whip me.
不可能有人会鞭打我。
I don't care if-- I can't see it happening.
我不在乎——我看不到它发生。
I'd be the person either teaching or Harriet Tubman.
我要么是教学者，要么是哈里特·塔布曼。
Or I'd be chased down.
不然我就会被追杀。
Would I be?
我会吗？
Yes.
是的。
Man 14 I just know that I wouldn't last very long.
Man 14 我只知道我坚持不了多久。
I would probably be shot or hung.
我可能会被枪杀或绞死。
Because?
因为？
Man 14 Because I would try to save my family as much as I could.
男人 14 因为我会尽力拯救我的家人。
It's hard for any of us to imagine ourselves on the wrong side of history, in the past or in the present.
我们任何人都很难想象自己站在历史的错误一边，无论是在过去还是现在。
All the whites in the program except one said that they would have fought slavery if they had lived during this time.
节目中除了一名白人外，所有白人都表示，如果他们生活在那个时期，他们就会反对奴隶制。
I would definitely help blacks to get away.
我肯定会帮助黑人逃脱。
I just can't stand to see people mistreated.
我只是无法忍受看到人们受到虐待。
God put them on this Earth for a reason.
上帝把他们安置在地球上是有原因的。
So there's no question in your own head that you guys would be on the right side.
因此，在你心里毫无疑问你们会站在正确的一边。
None.
没有任何。
Man 15 I would be a conductor on the Underground Railroad and actually help people go out and do it.
男人 15 我会成为地下铁路的售票员，实际上帮助人们出去做这件事。
And I could see how some people would be a little bit more timid, like the family who was just in their house.
我可以看到有些人会更加胆怯，就像刚刚在他们家里的家人一样。
And people came to them.
人们来到他们身边。
And they huddled them in their house for a while and then let them go.
他们把他们在家里挤了一会儿，然后就让他们走了。
I would go with the people.
我会和人们一起去。
We hold firm to our fantasies about ourselves, even when they are contradicted by actual experience.
我们坚持对自己的幻想，即使它们与实际经验相矛盾。
Ricky Murphy is an African-American man who went out with one of the earlier groups, and like the 16-year-old in my group, was made to act as overseer.
瑞奇·墨菲 (Ricky Murphy) 是一位非洲裔美国人，他曾与早期的一个团体一起出去，和我团体中的 16 岁男孩一样，他被任命担任监督者。
In the debriefing room, I catch him laughing about how hard he was on his fellow slaves.
在汇报室里，我看到他笑着说他对他的奴隶同伴有多严厉。
Who asked me?
谁问我了？
Who asked me why was I the chosen one to give all the orders?
谁问我为什么选择我来发号施令？
Somebody got pretty pissed out there.
有人在那里非常生气。
I was like, "Come on, move the logs, I said." And I wouldn't look up.
我当时想，“来吧，移动木头，我说。”我也不会抬头。
I was just, "Move the logs.
我只是说，“移动日志。
Just move them.
只要移动它们即可。
He's getting pissed.
他越来越生气了。
Move."
移动吧。”
Later, I sit on a bench and talk to Ricky and his wife, Sharon.
后来，我坐在长凳上与瑞奇和他的妻子莎伦交谈。
And when I ask him who he thinks he would have been if he had lived during this period, his answer is the same as the other African-Americans.
当我问他，如果他生活在这个时期，他认为自己会是谁，他的答案与其他非裔美国人相同。
I would have been rebellious.
我会叛逆的。
I would have been bad.
我会很糟糕。
So I remind him of his behavior this very night, that after 20 minutes of abuse, he could hardly bring himself to look up, turned on his own people, and concerned himself only with pleasing his master.
所以我提醒他今晚的行为，在20分钟的虐待之后，他几乎无法抬起头来，转而攻击自己的人民，只关心取悦他的主人。
And this surprises him.
这让他感到惊讶。
I didn't even realize it had happened until now that I'm looking back on it.
直到现在我回想起来，我才意识到这件事已经发生了。
But when I think about it, yeah.
但当我想一想，是的。
He yelled at me.
他对我大喊大叫。
Ricky Murphy It went straight to my head.
瑞奇·墨菲：这直接进入了我的脑海。
I was like, "Hey, y'all get your damn logs over here." And it was wrong.
我当时想，“嘿，你们都把你们那该死的日志拿过来吧。”这是错误的。
We are careless in who we pretend to be.
我们对自己假装的身份很粗心。
We are unrealistic.
我们不切实际。
We're dreamers.
我们是梦想家。
We pretend things about ourselves, and then we mistake them for reality.
我们假装自己的一些事情，然后我们把它们误认为是现实。
And these days, there are more and more of these simulated experiences.
如今，此类模拟体验越来越多。
We can pretend that we are frontier mountain men from the 1740s, or World War I doughboy fighters, or someone from the Middle Ages.
我们可以假装自己是 1740 年代的边疆山民，或者是第一次世界大战的面团战士，或者是来自中世纪的人。
White South Africans can even go to a simulated Zulu village and pretend that they are tribal members.
南非白人甚至可以去模拟的祖鲁村庄，假装自己是部落成员。
So we'll dress in the clothing of Elizabethan royalty.
所以我们将穿着伊丽莎白女王时代的皇室服装。
We'll lie down in Civil War trenches with the Tennessee Valley Battalion.
我们将与田纳西河谷营一起躺在内战战壕中。
We'll fasten slave chains to our wrists and run screaming through the woods.
我们会把奴隶锁链绑在手腕上，尖叫着穿过树林。
Maybe one day, we'll even lie down in ovens.
也许有一天，我们甚至会躺在烤箱里。
We will play at lives which we know, and on a deeper level, we hope and pray will never be or even resemble our own.
我们将扮演我们所熟悉的生活，在更深的层面上，我们希望并祈祷永远不会像我们自己的生活，甚至与我们自己的生活相似。
And then inevitably, we will go home.
然后不可避免地，我们会回家。
Alix Spiegel.
阿利克斯·斯皮格尔。
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Alix Spiegel and myself with Nancy Updike and Julie Snyder, contributing editors Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margie Rochlin, and Consigliere Sarah Vowell.
感谢 Ira Glass 嗯，我们的节目今天由 Alix Spiegel 和我本人、Nancy Updike 和 Julie Snyder、特约编辑 Paul Tough、Jack Hitt、Margie Rochlin 和 Consigliere Sarah Vowell 制作。
Production help form Emi Takahara, Todd Bachmann, and Sylvia Lemus.
制作团队由 Emi Takahara、Todd Bachmann 和 Sylvia Lemus 提供协助。
[ACKNOWLEDGMENTS] If you'd like to buy a cassette of this program, call us here at WBEZ in Chicago, 312-832-3380.
[鸣谢] 如果您想购买该节目的磁带，请致电我们芝加哥的 WBEZ，电话：312-832-3380。
Or you can listen to most of our programs for free on the internet at our website, www.thislife.org.
或者，您可以在我们的网站 www.thislife.org 上免费收听我们的大部分节目。
Thanks to Elizabeth Meister, who runs the site.
感谢该网站的运营者伊丽莎白·梅斯特 (Elizabeth Meister)。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia, who is heard at staff meetings managing us this way.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 进行监督，在员工会议上可以听到他以这种方式管理我们。
Move the wood!
搬木头吧！
Move the wood.
移动木头。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 我是艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
God be with you, friends.
愿上帝与你们同在，朋友们。
Announcer PRI, Public Radio International.
国际公共广播电台 PRI 播音员。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。