108: Truth and Lies at Age Ten - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #108 | August 7, 1998 108: Truth and Lies at Age Ten Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 108 集 | 1998 年 8 月 7 日 108：十岁时的真相与谎言 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass At three years old, children have a hard time telling fantasy from reality.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 三岁时，孩子们很难区分幻想与现实。
By five or six, they operate in both worlds.
到了五六岁的时候，他们就在两个世界里工作了。
By the time they're 10, we expect children to be able to distinguish what's real from what isn't real.
当他们 10 岁时，我们希望孩子们能够区分真实与虚假。
The process of becoming an adult, you could argue, is the process of learning to tell the truth about the world.
你可以说，成为成年人的过程就是学习讲述世界真相的过程。
But telling the truth is not always so easy.
但说真话并不总是那么容易。
When she was 10 years old, Claire switched schools, moved to a rich suburb.
10岁时，克莱尔转学，搬到了一个富裕的郊区。
Her family didn't have much money.
她的家人没有多少钱。
She became best friends with a girl whose family had immigrated from Chile.
她和一个女孩成了最好的朋友，她的家人是从智利移民的。
Claire started to become obsessed with her.
克莱尔开始迷恋她。
It wasn't really like when we would hang out together that I would idolize her, or that she was like the boss.
并不是说我们在一起的时候我会崇拜她，或者说她就像老板一样。
But like, I'd go home and I would make up these songs about her, and I'd like make up songs about the letters of her name.
但是就像，我会回家，我会编这些关于她的歌曲，我想编一些关于她名字字母的歌曲。
She had like a really Spanish sounding name.
她有一个听起来很西班牙的名字。
And her phone number, I would just dial it over and over and over again.
还有她的电话号码，我会一遍又一遍地拨打。
And I'd make songs about her phone number.
我会根据她的电话号码创作歌曲。
Because it's just like everything about her was like golden to me.
因为她的一切对我来说就像金子一样。
It was just like absolutely perfect and beautiful.
简直就是完美又美丽。
Claire dressed like the Chilean girl, wore only the modest jewelry that a Catholic mom would allow, demanded to go to Sunday School and get First Communion like the Chilean girl did.
克莱尔穿得像智利女孩一样，只佩戴天主教妈妈允许的朴素珠宝，要求像智利女孩一样去主日学校并接受第一次圣餐。
And then Claire started to tell people that she was Chilean herself.
然后克莱尔开始告诉人们她自己就是智利人。
She'd say that her family fled a dictatorship, started over in America.
她会说她的家人逃离了独裁统治，在美国重新开始。
That her family was like her friend's family.
她的家人就像她朋友的家人。
I think it was because she was really poor.
我想这是因为她真的很穷。
Like my family was really poor.
好像我家真的很穷。
But she was like such a different kind of poor.
但她就像一个与众不同的穷人。
You know, she was like the good, righteous poor.
你知道，她就像善良、正义的穷人。
You know, it wasn't her fault or her family's fault that they were poor.
你知道，贫穷不是她的错，也不是她家人的错。
It was like political oppression and circumstances that made them poor.
就像政治压迫和环境使他们变得贫穷一样。
And they were good, you know, people.
你知道，他们都是好人。
And in my family, it was like there was violence and there was drinking and their family-- her mom kept a good house and my family always had like a really messy house.
在我的家里，就像有暴力，有酗酒，还有他们的家人——她妈妈的房子很好，而我的家人总是有一个非常凌乱的房子。
They just-- it wasn't her fault that she was poor.
他们只是——她穷不是她的错。
We were poor because we were bad people.
我们之所以贫穷，是因为我们是坏人。
Why do you lie?
你为什么撒谎？
Sometimes you lie because you're powerless to do anything else.
有时你撒谎是因为你无能为力做其他事情。
And who was more powerless than a 10-year-old child?
还有谁比一个10岁的孩子更无能为力呢？
It definitely carried me through that time.
它确实陪伴我度过了那段时间。
It definitely gave me a sense of like, a sense of pride.
这确实给了我一种喜欢的感觉，一种自豪感。
It's so weird, you know, that you can like feel pride in something that you're not.
你知道，这太奇怪了，你可以为自己不是的东西感到自豪。
And there was just no other way except to lie about it.
除了撒谎之外，没有其他办法。
There were things that were just totally unmoveable and unchangeable.
有些东西是完全不可移动和不可改变的。
Which was, you know, because I was a kid and my family was the way it was.
你知道，因为我还是个孩子，我的家庭就是这样。
And there was nothing I could do about it.
我对此无能为力。
One summer, Claire went to a Bible retreat in Wisconsin with her mother and her brother.
一年夏天，克莱尔与母亲和兄弟一起去威斯康星州参加圣经静修会。
She befriended a girl from Venezuela.
她和一个来自委内瑞拉的女孩成为了朋友。
It was so natural, Claire says, you know, her being from Chile and all.
克莱尔说，这太自然了，你知道，她来自智利等等。
Yeah, so I told her that I was from there and that I didn't Spanish very well because I wasn't actually born there.
是的，所以我告诉她我来自那里，而且我的西班牙语不太好，因为我实际上并不是在那里出生的。
That I came here when I was a baby or something, but that my family was from there.
当我还是个婴儿的时候我就来到了这里，但我的家人来自那里。
So obviously she was going to meet my mother and my brother, who spoke not a word of Spanish and didn't look at all, you know, Central or South American.
很明显，她要去见我的母亲和我的兄弟，他们不会说一句西班牙语，而且看起来根本不像中美洲或南美洲人。
But I remember hearing that like lots of Nazis moved down there and that, yeah, well, my mom, you know, she has blond hair and, you know, she looks the part, so yeah.
但我记得听说很多纳粹分子搬到了那里，是的，好吧，我妈妈，你知道，她有一头金发，你知道，她看起来很像那个角色，所以是的。
That's what happened.
这就是发生的事情。
And I kind of just decided that like my mom was a German descendant of a relative of some Nazi or something, and that that's where we were from.
我就觉得我妈妈是某个纳粹分子或其他人的亲戚的德国后裔，而我们就是从那里来的。
And that we moved back here because of political oppression.
我们搬回这里是因为政治压迫。
This is how far it went.
这就是它走了多远。
It was preferable for people to think that they were Nazis than to think they were low income people just living in a rich suburb of Chicago.
人们更愿意认为自己是纳粹分子，而不是认为自己是生活在芝加哥富裕郊区的低收入人群。
And one of the most important things about these lies is that Claire says they didn't feel like lies at the time.
关于这些谎言最重要的事情之一是克莱尔说他们当时并不觉得它们是谎言。
She said she felt like she was telling people about a part of herself, a real part of herself.
她说她感觉自己在向人们讲述自己的一部分，自己真实的一部分。
You know, if I could convince somebody else for just a little while then I could believe it, too.
你知道，如果我能暂时说服别人，那么我也能相信。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life .
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台，这是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, Truth and Lies at Age Ten.
今天我们的节目《十岁时的真相与谎言》。
Today we bring you two stories about people lying to themselves, people lying because they thought they had no choice.
今天，我们为您带来两个关于人们对自己撒谎的故事，人们因为认为自己别无选择而撒谎。
And how they slowly came to face the truth, which took decades.
以及他们如何慢慢面对真相，这花了几十年的时间。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, I, Danny.
第一幕，我，丹尼。
How to deal with rejection.
如何应对拒绝。
With something so primal as being told no. Being told you're not wanted here.
面对诸如被拒绝这样原始的事情。被告知这里不欢迎你。
You know, people spend years sometimes going over what happened, thinking it through, turning it over and over in their heads, wondering if they could have done anything differently.
你知道，人们有时会花费数年的时间来回顾发生的事情，仔细思考，在脑海中反复思考，想知道他们是否可以采取不同的做法。
Trying to make sense of it.
试图理解它。
Well, Dan Gediman got a kind of cataclysmic rejection when he was a boy and, powerless to do much else, he lied about it.
丹·格迪曼（Dan Gediman）小时候遭到了灾难性的拒绝，而且无能为力，他对此撒了谎。
In this story he returns to the scene of the crime as much as you can and tries to make sense of what happened to him.
在这个故事中，他尽可能地回到犯罪现场，并试图弄清楚发生在他身上的事情。
This is about a lie.
这是关于一个谎言。
A lie I tell almost to this day but not after this day.
这是我几乎直到今天才说的谎言，但在这一天之后我就不再说了。
Anyway, I'm Dan Gediman.
无论如何，我是丹·格迪曼。
Danny.
丹尼.
And I was in the first cast of the TV show Zoom.
我是电视节目 Zoom 的第一批演员。
Chances are, Zoom is either something you've never heard of or something you can't forget.
很可能，Zoom 要么是您从未听说过的东西，要么是您无法忘记的东西。
And it's probably the only TV show remembered for its address.
这可能是唯一一个因其地址而被记住的电视节目。
Zoom was a public TV show for kids in the '70s, produced by WGBH in Boston and aired all over the country.
Zoom 是 70 年代面向儿童的公共电视节目，由波士顿 WGBH 制作并在全国播出。
For those of you who've never heard of Zoom , here's a little context from television historian David Kleeman.
对于那些从未听说过 Zoom 的人，这里有电视历史学家 David Kleeman 提供的一些背景信息。
Zoom was really the first children's television program to put children at center stage, to tell them that their ideas, their works, their creativity was very important.
Zoom确实是第一个将儿童置于中心舞台的儿童电视节目，告诉他们他们的想法、他们的作品、他们的创造力非常重要。
It gave them a chance to submit ideas for the program, to submit art works, to submit pretty much anything that they thought was important in their lives.
它让他们有机会提交该计划的想法、提交艺术作品、提交他们认为对生活重要的几乎任何东西。
And then it might appear on the air.
然后它可能会出现在广播中。
But one interesting thing about Zoom as a generational identifier, it's one of those programs where, if you walk up to people who are of that age, who did grow up with Zoom, and say the name, they'll sing the theme song back to you.
但关于 Zoom 作为代际标识符的一个有趣的事情是，在其中一个节目中，如果你走到那个年龄段、确实是和 Zoom 一起长大的人面前，说出名字，他们就会给你唱主题曲。
OK, here goes.
好的，开始了。
[SINGING] Come on and zoom, zoom, zoom-a, zoom.
[歌唱] 来吧，变焦，变焦，变焦，变焦。
Come on and zoom-a, zoom-a, zoom-a, zoom.
来吧，缩放-a，缩放-a，缩放-a，缩放。
We're gonna--
我们要——
I remembered constantly singing the theme.
我记得一直在唱主题。
People who know it show great enthusiasm.
知道的人都表现出极大的热情。
They're willing to do the Bernadette Butterfly thing or risk singing the ZIP code.
他们愿意做伯纳黛特蝴蝶的事情，或者冒险唱邮政编码。
It was such a big part of my life and I remember-- like the first time I ever saw a kayak was on Zoom.
这是我生活中如此重要的一部分，我记得——就像我第一次看到皮划艇是在 Zoom 上一样。
And I was just dying to be friends with the kids on the show.
我非常想和节目中的孩子们成为朋友。
Or be one of them.
或者成为他们中的一员。
[SINGING] Oh come on and zoom, zoom, zoom-a, zoom.
[歌唱]哦来吧，变焦，变焦，变焦，变焦。
We're gonna zoom-a, zoom-a, zoom-a, zoom.
我们要缩放，缩放，缩放，缩放。
[INTERPOSING] That was as much a playground litany as "Ring Around the Rosies" for me growing up.
[插话] 对于我的成长来说，这就像“Ring around the Rosies”一样是游乐场里的长篇大论。
02134.
02134。
Yeah.
是的。
Dan Gediman 02134.
丹·格迪曼 02134。
Send it to Zoom.
将其发送到 Zoom。
You know, I haven't sung that in years.
你知道，我已经很多年没有唱过这首歌了。
[SINGING] Come on and zoom.
[唱歌] 来吧，变焦。
Come on and zoom, zoom.
来吧，变焦，变焦。
Come on and zoom.
来吧，变焦。
OK.
好的。
So, suffice it to say, for the purposes of this story at least, Zoom was a big deal.
所以，可以这么说，至少就这个故事而言，Zoom 是一件大事。
And if you were a cast member of Zoom, you were famous.
如果你是 Zoom 的演员，你就会出名。
Zoom was a given every week and I don't ever recall watching it with you, though.
Zoom 是每周必做的事情，但我不记得和你一起看过它。
Now that I think about it.
现在我想起来了。
I don't recall ever watching that show with you.
我不记得曾经和你一起看过那个节目。
Maybe it was too painful.
也许是太痛苦了。
Did you watch it?
你看了吗？
Yeah, I watched it.
是的，我看过。
That's my best friend, Adam.
那是我最好的朋友，亚当。
And he's right.
他是对的。
It was painful.
很痛苦。
I guess I better tell you my lie now.
我想我现在最好告诉你我的谎言。
I wasn't really on the first cast of Zoom .
我并不是《Zoom》的第一批演员。
I was almost on the first cast of Zoom .
我几乎是《Zoom》的第一个演员。
They actually cast me and then they cut me.
他们实际上选了我，然后又剪掉了我。
I can't tell you how horrible this was for a 10-year-old kid, but I guess I can try.
我无法告诉你这对于一个 10 岁的孩子来说有多可怕，但我想我可以尝试一下。
That's what I'm doing here.
这就是我在这里所做的。
Here's what happened, or at least what I think happened.
这就是发生的事情，或者至少是我认为发生的事情。
Memory can protect you from the truth sometimes.
记忆有时可以保护你远离真相。
I'm sitting in the dining room of my parent's house talking to my parents about Zoom.
我坐在父母家的餐厅里和父母谈论 Zoom。
And I'm sitting around the dining room table.
我坐在餐桌旁。
To reconstruct my memory, I tried talking to my parents first.
为了重建我的记忆，我尝试先和我的父母交谈。
Now I think he told me that he liked certain qualities that you had, one of them was being very forthright.
现在我想他告诉我他喜欢你的某些品质，其中之一就是非常直率。
Here's my dad, telling me what he recalls about how I talked to the Zoom producer, Chris Sarson, during the audition process.
这是我的父亲，他回忆起我在试镜过程中与 Zoom 制片人克里斯·萨森 (Chris Sarson) 交谈的情况。
But some of the things that you said, whether they ticked him off or not, I don't know.
但你说的有些话，是否激怒了他，我不知道。
But the two I remember is, that you said that they were wearing rugby shirts and when he asked you what did you think of the rugby shirts, you said, they suck.
但我记得的两件事是，你说他们穿着橄榄球衬衫，当他问你觉得橄榄球衬衫怎么样时，你说，它们很糟糕。
That was what-- 12?
那是什么——12？
How old were you?
你当时几岁？
10.
10.
Well, in those days that was very precocious.
嗯，在那个时代，这是非常早熟的。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Maybe it was popular then, too.
也许当时也很流行。
In any case, I was embarrassed when I heard.
无论如何，我听了都感到尴尬。
Not because of the word, but just I thought, oh gee, there goes the farm.
不是因为这个词，而是因为我想，哦，天哪，农场不见了。
And the other one was the name of the show.
另一个是节目的名称。
And apparently you had told this Chris that you thought that Zoom was not a very good idea, that it was kind of corny or one thing or another.
显然你已经告诉克里斯，你认为 Zoom 不是一个好主意，它有点老套，或者是这样或那样。
And you suggested, I don't know if you gave them another idea, but you suggested they change the name of the show.
你建议，我不知道你是否给了他们另一个想法，但你建议他们改变节目的名称。
And those are two things I remember.
这是我记得的两件事。
My father apparently remembers me as somewhat of a pain in the ass.
我父亲显然记得我是个让人讨厌的人。
And I suspect he's right.
我怀疑他是对的。
I was a bit of a-- shall we say-- a show-off.
我有点——我们可以说——爱炫耀。
I certainly liked attention.
我当然喜欢受到关注。
I'd gotten the Zoom audition in the first place through a Sherlock Holmes skit that my dad, my brother, and I did around the family tape recorder.
我最初是通过我父亲、我兄弟和我用家庭录音机表演的夏洛克·福尔摩斯短剧获得了 Zoom 试镜机会。
Oh, Holmes!
哦，福尔摩斯！
I'm John Alfafa, don't you remember me?
我是约翰·阿尔法法，你还记得我吗？
Of course, yes, I remember you very well from the club.
当然，是的，我在俱乐部里记得很清楚。
Yes, yes, yes.
是的，是的，是的。
How are you?
你好吗？
Very fine today.
今天很好。
But I have a friend here that would like to meet you.
但我在这里有一位朋友想认识你。
Mr. Watson.
沃森先生。
Mr. John D.
约翰·D.
Watson.
华生.
I see, of course.
我明白了，当然。
Young Dan Gediman Yes, he's right here.
年轻的丹·格迪曼 是的，他就在这里。
Of course, you neglected to mention that it's Dr. John D.
当然，你忘了提到他是 John D.
Watson.
华生.
Of course you're Dr. Watson.
你当然是华生医生。
John D.
约翰·D.
Watson.
华生.
It looked like it was all set.
看起来一切都已经准备好了。
I think that I'm sure that I was telling everybody that you were going to be in it.
我想我确信我是在告诉每个人你会参与其中。
And this was the very beginning of Zoom , so it was going to be the very first group.
这是 Zoom 的最初阶段，所以这将是第一个团队。
Do you recall at all my excitement about this?
你还记得我对此的兴奋吗？
I remember being in the kitchen, right around where the sink is, and it was at night, and I was having a little fantasy in my head about what type of house to buy you.
我记得当时是在厨房里，就在水槽附近，那是在晚上，我的脑海里浮现出一个关于该给你买什么类型的房子的幻想。
OK.
好的。
What type of house I would buy you with the-- in my mind-- the millions of dollars that were going to be coming in from doing this show.
在我看来，我会用从做这个节目中获得的数百万美元给你买什么样的房子。
I was sort of imagining, you know, different styles of houses.
我有点想象，你知道，不同风格的房子。
And you were going to be so proud of me because I was going to move you into this house, like Elvis did with his parents.
你会为我感到骄傲，因为我要把你搬进这所房子，就像埃尔维斯和他的父母一样。
So this wasn't just a case of me wanting to be famous.
所以这不仅仅是我想出名的情况。
I wanted the money, too.
我也想要钱。
I thought I was going to be like Jodie Foster or Johnny Whitaker, from A Family Affair.
我以为我会像《家事》中的朱迪·福斯特或约翰尼·惠特克那样。
My dad had been laid off from his engineering job and our family was coming out of some pretty hard times in the early '70s.
我父亲的工程工作被解雇了，我们一家人刚刚摆脱了 70 年代初的一段相当困难的时期。
Or at least it seemed that way to me at age 10.
或者至少对 10 岁时的我来说是这样的。
I thought I could save them.
我以为我可以拯救他们。
I was banking on it.
我指望着它。
But then it fell apart.
但后来它崩溃了。
And this is where it gets hazy.
这就是它变得模糊的地方。
I know I invented some stories to protect myself.
我知道我编造了一些故事来保护自己。
But now I can't exactly remember which ones.
但现在我已经记不清是哪些了。
And my parents couldn't help.
而我的父母也无能为力。
So I decided to embark on a search for the truth about my past.
所以我决定开始寻找关于我过去的真相。
Even though it had been 25 years, I figured, what the hell.
尽管已经过去了 25 年，我还是想，管他呢。
I'd contact the members of that first cast of Zoom .
我会联系 Zoom 的第一批演员的成员。
I continued to be recognized up till my third year in college.
直到大学三年级，我一直受到认可。
I was registering at NYU, and I was stopped at the front door by someone who recognized me.
我当时正在纽约大学注册，在前门被一个认出我的人拦住了。
That's John.
那是约翰。
I called him up in New York, where he's a playwright now and approaching middle age, like all of us.
我给纽约的他打电话，他现在是一名剧作家，和我们所有人一样，已经接近中年了。
This is him 25 years ago.
这是25年前的他。
She cannot read, read, read.
她不能读书，读书，读书。
She cannot write, write, write.
她不会写，写，写。
But she can smoke, smoke, smoke her father's pipe.
但她可以抽烟，抽烟，抽她父亲的烟斗。
She asked her mother, mother, mother for fifty--
她向她妈妈、妈妈、妈妈要了五十——
I thought John could shed some light on my history because he was part of the reason, at least as I remember it, that Chris, the producer, cut me from the cast.
我认为约翰可以阐明我的历史，因为他是制片人克里斯将我从演员阵容中剔除的部分原因，至少在我的记忆中是这样。
And then Chris Sarson told me, I'm afraid we've decided internally that we need to add another girl to the cast.
然后克里斯·萨森告诉我，恐怕我们内部已经决定需要在演员阵容中再增加一个女孩。
Oh.
哦。
Dan Gediman And there's too many-- we had five boys and two girls.
Dan Gediman 人太多了——我们有五个男孩和两个女孩。
Nina and Nancy.
尼娜和南希。
And what Chris told me was that you and John are both sort of little song and dance men.
克里斯告诉我，你和约翰都是歌舞小将。
And so we've just sort of arbitrarily decided that John would work out better than you.
所以我们只是武断地决定约翰会比你表现得更好。
I can't believe they said that!
我不敢相信他们这么说！
I cannot believe they said that.
我不敢相信他们这么说。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
And then said to me, but, but, but we're going to roll the cast over in a few months and bring in new kids.
然后对我说，但是，但是，但是我们将在几个月内更换演员阵容并引入新孩子。
And we would like you to be involved then.
我们希望您能参与其中。
But my recollection is that I turned down the opportunity to be on the second cast out of youthful hubris.
但我记得，我出于年轻时的狂妄自大而拒绝了参加第二次选角的机会。
Really?
真的吗？
Dan Gediman I felt so humiliated.
丹·格迪曼（Dan Gediman）我感到非常羞辱。
So-- so I--
所以——所以我——
You can like title this piece, like Misery.
你可以喜欢这篇文章的标题，比如《Misery》。
Well, I think I felt like, you know, I had my shot.
嗯，我想我感觉，你知道，我有机会了。
I blew it.
我搞砸了。
I'm no good.
我不好。
Why bother?
何苦呢？
Yeah, all at age 10.
是啊，都10岁了。
Your life is over at age 10.
你的生命在10岁时就结束了。
John was sympathetic and I appreciated that.
约翰很有同情心，我对此表示赞赏。
But he didn't remember any of this incident.
但他不记得这件事。
And no reason he should, I suppose.
我想他没有理由这样做。
Why don't you go ahead and open up the package I gave you?
你为什么不打开我给你的包裹呢？
He and I were in different studios for this interview and I'd sent him a photo that he opened while we were talking on the phone to see if he even remembered me.
这次采访他和我在不同的工作室，我给他发了一张照片，他在我们打电话时打开了这张照片，看看他是否还记得我。
Oh.
哦。
Oh my goodness.
哦，我的天啊。
Wow.
哇。
Oh, look how little we are.
哦，看看我们多么渺小。
Holy smokes.
圣烟。
Now this really brings back how young we were.
现在这确实让我们回到了年轻的时候。
Oh.
哦。
Now this is you with the blond hair?
这是你，金发碧眼的吗？
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
In your suit.
穿着你的西装。
Mmmm.
嗯。
Dan Gediman I'll take that as a no.
Dan Gediman 我对此表示拒绝。
Yeah, it really-- you know, I feel, I'm embarrassed.
是的，确实——你知道，我觉得我很尴尬。
You look like you're a really cute kid.
你看起来真是个可爱的孩子。
You should have been there.
你应该在场的。
I'm John.
我是约翰。
Joe I still have paycheck stubs from back then.
乔，我还保留着当时的工资单。
I saved them.
我救了他们。
Next I went to visit Joe, another kid from the first cast.
接下来我去拜访了乔，另一个来自第一批演员的孩子。
And all the publicity.
以及所有的宣传。
God, we were in-- we must have been in every single newspaper in the United States.
天哪，我们肯定出现在美国的每一份报纸上。
We were in Life magazine, Time magazine.
我们上了《生活》杂志、《时代》杂志。
Just what I wanted to hear.
这正是我想听的。
Joe It was a great experience.
乔 这是一次很棒的经历。
An amazing experience.
一次奇妙的经历。
It's on my CV.
我的简历上有。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
I put it on my CV now when I apply for jobs as a psychiatrist.
现在当我申请精神科医生的工作时，我就把它写在了我的简历上。
Now Joe is a child psychiatrist.
现在乔是一名儿童精神病学家。
Isn't that perfect?
那不是很完美吗？
I remember Joe as a nice kid.
我记得乔是一个好孩子。
Very magnetic, thoughtful.
很有磁性，很有思想。
I just remember you were blond and you were fun.
我只记得你是金发女郎而且很有趣。
And it seemed a good fit.
这看起来很合适。
I was convinced that you were on the show.
我确信你在节目中。
I think we all were.
我想我们都是。
But you know, I guess then we never got together after that, did we?
但你知道，我想在那之后我们就再也没有在一起过，不是吗？
No, we didn't.
不，我们没有。
Not until now, all these years later.
直到现在，这么多年过去了。
Talking to Joe, it was like I couldn't help myself, him being a psychiatrist and all.
和乔交谈时，我感觉自己无法控制自己，因为他是一名精神科医生等等。
I began to confess.
我开始坦白。
All the kids in my school, I remember them making announcements over the PA system that I was on Zoom .
我记得我学校里的所有孩子都通过公共广播系统宣布我在 Zoom 上。
And I was treated, for a brief period of time, from being rather a pariah, to being a celebrity.
在很短的一段时间内，我从一个贱民变成了名人。
And then back again, lower, because the kids felt like I had, you know, lied or something.
然后又回来，更低，因为孩子们觉得我撒了谎什么的。
And the year after my whole Zoom deal was really rough.
在我完成整个 Zoom 交易的第二年，情况真的很艰难。
And since then, I'm sure I went through a period where I told some fibs about my experience.
从那时起，我确信我经历了一段关于我的经历撒谎的时期。
If only because it was so humiliating, in my mind, what really happened.
如果只是因为这太羞辱了，在我看来，到底发生了什么。
You've obviously grown quite a bit.
显然你已经成长了不少。
It's to your credit.
这是你的功劳。
You must have a good therapist.
你必须有一个好的治疗师。
You know, I think that you actually, of everybody involved in Zoom , probably had the most unique experience.
你知道，我认为实际上，在参与 Zoom 的每个人中，你可能拥有最独特的经历。
And I can see it as a really devastating experience.
我认为这是一次非常毁灭性的经历。
Listen.
听。
He's treating me.
他正在给我治疗。
Joe I mean, there you are.
乔，我是说，你来了。
You're given the prize and then they say, I'm sorry, you're disqualified.
你获得了奖项，然后他们说，对不起，你被取消资格了。
This is tough for anybody, but especially at that age.
这对任何人来说都是艰难的，尤其是在那个年纪。
I mean, your whole self esteem is mixed into this.
我的意思是，你的整个自尊都融入其中。
There you are.
你就在那里。
Are you good?
你好吗？
Aren't you good?
你不是好吗？
Are you talented?
你有才华吗？
Aren't you talented?
你不是有才华吗？
What is this?
这是什么？
You know, I'm not the right sex?
你知道吗，我的性别不对？
If I was a girl I would be able to do this?
如果我是一个女孩，我能做到这一点吗？
So I think, you know, I don't envy your position.
所以我想，你知道，我并不羡慕你的处境。
This is a tough position to be in.
这是一个艰难的处境。
It's a tough experience to have had.
这是一次艰难的经历。
Joe told me that maybe I've been recreating this past in my relationships, where I might be loved by someone but I'm always thinking that they could change and decide, no, I don't want to love you.
乔告诉我，也许我一直在我的人际关系中重现这段过去，我可能被某人爱着，但我总是认为他们可以改变并决定，不，我不想爱你。
And I told them about how I had one set of memories in which I was the one who told Zoom that I didn't want to be a part of it.
我告诉他们，我有一组记忆，其中我告诉 Zoom 我不想成为其中的一部分。
My guess is if you created this memory where you blew off Zoom instead of the other way around you might have been just a tad on the angry side, don't you think?
我的猜测是，如果你创造了这段你关闭 Zoom 的记忆，而不是相反，你可能只是有点生气，你不觉得吗？
Just a little annoyed by this whole event.
只是对整个事件有点恼火。
But it's an incredible experience that you had.
但这是一次令人难以置信的经历。
That needs to be cherished.
这是需要珍惜的。
It is unique.
它是独一无二的。
I didn't have that.
我没有那个。
Thank god.
感谢上帝。
Listen, I know time is up.
听着，我知道时间到了。
I had two things I was hoping to do before I walked out the door.
在我走出门之前，我希望做两件事。
One of which-- you probably aren't asked this very often.
其中之一——你可能不会经常被问到这个问题。
I'm wondering if you could autograph your picture here.
我想知道你是否可以在这里给你的照片签名。
I'm going to ask Tommy to do the same.
我会要求汤米也这样做。
Listen to me.
听我说。
I'm getting his autograph.
我要得到他的签名。
Why?
为什么？
Because he's famous.
因为他很有名。
He's Joe, the Zoom kid.
他是乔，Zoom 小子。
Well, I mostly remember speaking to you on the phone, like often during that period, I guess.
嗯，我记得大部分时间都是在电话里和你说话，我想，就像那段时期经常发生的那样。
And you were kind of a wise-cracking, kind of show-bizzy, kind of person that I seem to get along with pretty well.
你是一个爱说俏皮话、爱演戏的人，我似乎和你相处得很好。
As I do gravitate toward show-biz phonies even now.
即使现在我也确实被演艺界的骗子所吸引。
That's Tommy, another Zoomer from the first cast.
那是汤米，第一批演员中的另一位 Zoomer。
He was actually my best friend of that group.
他实际上是我在那个小组中最好的朋友。
We talked all the time on the phone while we were auditioning for the show.
当我们试镜时，我们一直在电话里交谈。
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Dan Gediman Then dip your note in a bucket of lard.
[插话] Dan Gediman 然后将你的纸条浸入一桶猪油中。
In a bucket of lard, yeah.
一桶猪油里，是的。
Dan Gediman Then Nancy came in.
丹·格迪曼 然后南希进来了。
Joe doesn't know what he's talking about.
乔不知道他在说什么。
You put it in an envelope, without a doubt.
毫无疑问，您将其放入信封中。
Then everybody came in.
然后大家都进来了。
Tommy Then take your typewriter, pencil, or pen.
汤米 那么带上你的打字机、铅笔或钢笔。
If you make a mistake, you gotta do it again.
如果你犯了错误，你就必须重来一次。
I got a real kick out of reminiscing like this.
我从这样的回忆中得到了真正的乐趣。
It made me feel like I was still part of things somehow.
这让我觉得我仍然是事物的一部分。
Tommy really tried to make me feel better.
汤米真的很努力让我感觉好一点。
He called me the Pete Best of Zoom , which didn't really help that much, but I knew his heart was in the right place.
他称我为 Zoom 的 Pete Best，这并没有多大帮助，但我知道他的心是在正确的地方。
But what I wanted to know from him was, was it great being a Zoom kid?
但我想从他那里知道的是，作为一名 Zoom 孩子很棒吗？
What did I miss?
我错过了什么？
Was it great being famous?
出名是不是很棒？
Well, I'm sure that the fame must have went to my head because you've got so many people walking around kissing your ass and telling you how great you are.
好吧，我确信我一定是被名声冲昏了头脑，因为有那么多人走来走去，亲吻你的屁股，告诉你你有多棒。
And just the fact that you're on TV, people look up to you.
事实上，只要你出现在电视上，人们就会尊敬你。
Just the fact that you're on TV is always like one of the biggest things you can do in America.
事实上，你上电视总是你在美国能做的最重要的事情之一。
It doesn't matter how-- what kind of other achievements you can get.
你能获得什么样的其他成就并不重要。
Tommy and some of the others from that first Zoom cast went on to try to make it big.
汤米和第一届 Zoom 演员阵容中的其他一些人继续努力将其做大。
They did a commercial TV show and a record, but nothing really panned out.
他们制作了商业电视节目和唱片，但没有真正取得成功。
Our parents kind of kept the ball rolling and we got like a lounge band and tried to play live, and then things just kind of started fizzling.
我们的父母有点让事情继续下去，我们就像一个休闲乐队一样，尝试现场演奏，然后事情就开始失败了。
When things start fizzling down, they fizzle down pretty quick.
当事情开始失败时，它们会很快失败。
Tommy's a video cameraman now.
汤米现在是一名摄像师。
He loves the work, but he still wants to be a rock star.
他热爱这份工作，但他仍然想成为一名摇滚明星。
In fact, he gave me a compilation tape of all the bands he's been in over the years, hoping I might use it on this show.
事实上，他给了我一盘他多年来参加过的所有乐队的合辑，希望我可以在这个节目中使用它。
The long term effects of this on you, you know.
你知道，这对你的长期影响。
Looking back now, you're 30-- 9?
现在回想起来，你已经30-9岁了？
Is that right?
是这样吗？
OK.
好的。
It's been 25 years.
已经25年了。
How has being a Zoom kid affected you long-term?
成为 Zoom 孩子对您有何长期影响？
It created my dream to work in this business.
它创造了我在这个行业工作的梦想。
A dream that I pursue to this day.
这是我至今所追求的梦想。
So it was a very heavy influence.
所以这是一个非常重大的影响。
It's hard to live up to it sometimes.
有时很难做到这一点。
You're really hard pressed to come up with something that's a better, well-known achievement than that.
你真的很难想出比这更好、更广为人知的成就。
I don't care how many degrees you have, how good you are, or how smart you are.
我不在乎你有多少学位，你有多优秀，或者你有多聪明。
If you're on Zoom , that's what people know you from.
如果您使用 Zoom，人们就是通过 Zoom 认识您的。
So I'll just accept that fact and move on.
所以我会接受这个事实并继续前进。
Kind of depressing.
有点郁闷。
I confess it made me feel a little better though.
我承认这让我感觉好一点了。
When I got home from talking to Tommy, I listened to his tape.
当我和汤米谈话回到家时，我听了他的录音带。
Once you've done it, it debunks the mystique.
一旦你做到了，它的神秘性就被揭穿了。
Because in real life terms, what it meant was you really couldn't walk down the street without being recognized in some way or scrutinized.
因为在现实生活中，这意味着你真的不能走在街上而不被以某种方式认出或审视。
This is John again.
这又是约翰。
John There were certain events that were sort of traumatizing, like being mobbed.
约翰 有些事件有点令人痛苦，比如被围攻。
When a year ago, you could go to the mall and just buy your shoes or whatever, I'm with friends and suddenly, hey, there's John.
一年前，你可以去商场买鞋子或其他什么东西，我和朋友在一起，突然，嘿，约翰来了。
And then three more, three people come and of course, will you sign?
然后另外三个，三个人来了，当然，你会签名吗？
Then someone decides, oh, it's a good idea to get an autograph.
然后有人决定，哦，获得签名是个好主意。
And suddenly you can't move because they're-- it's what seems like a multitude.
突然之间你就无法动弹了，因为他们——看起来像是一大群人。
Who knows?
谁知道？
Probably it was 20 people.
大概有20个人。
They're demanding your time.
他们要求你花时间。
They're grabbing your arm.
他们抓住你的手臂。
I found it incredibly unpleasant.
我觉得这非常不愉快。
Because they're looking-- they were looking at me and not seeing me.
因为他们在看——他们在看我，但没有看到我。
They were seeing some sort of image.
他们看到了某种图像。
And it was sort of a glazy look of excitement and unreality.
那是一种兴奋而又不真实的呆滞表情。
This kind of helped, hearing this.
听到这个，这很有帮助。
I began to wonder if maybe I missed something that wasn't so great after all.
我开始怀疑我是否错过了一些不太好的事情。
Whether I wasted a lot of time wishing I was on the show, even pretending sometimes that I was.
我是否浪费了很多时间希望自己能出现在节目中，甚至有时假装我在节目中。
You know what?
你知道吗？
I want to ask you a question.
我想问你一个问题。
I want to ask you if it was true, were you ever really going to be on Zoom?
我想问你这是否属实，你真的会使用 Zoom 吗？
Yes.
是的。
I called up Karen.
我打电话给凯伦。
She had nothing to do with Zoom , she just watched it.
她与Zoom无关，她只是观看而已。
But she was one of my closest friends during that time.
但那段时间她是我最亲密的朋友之一。
I've come to distrust some of my own memories and wonder whether, you know, how much of it was wishful thinking.
我开始不相信自己的一些记忆，想知道其中有多少是一厢情愿的想法。
How much of it was fantasy or dreams or aspirations.
其中有多少是幻想、梦想或愿望。
And/or what I told people as sort of a cover story.
和/或我告诉人们的作为封面故事的内容。
I guess I should get back to my lie, in the spirit of full disclosure.
我想我应该本着充分披露的精神回到我的谎言。
Here's exactly what my lie was.
这正是我的谎言。
I let people believe that I, Dan Gediman, was Danny.
我让人们相信我，丹·格迪曼，就是丹尼。
The Danny.
丹尼.
The real Danny on Zoom .
Zoom 上的真实丹尼。
Was there a kid on the show named Danny?
节目中有一个叫丹尼的孩子吗？
Yes.
是的。
Karen And I remember trying to make him be you.
凯伦 我记得我曾试图让他成为你。
Because I wanted you to be on that show so much.
因为我非常希望你能参加那个节目。
I though, well, maybe that's Danny.
我想，好吧，也许那就是丹尼。
Maybe he just looks very different on television, and sounds different.
也许他只是在电视上看起来很不一样，听起来也很不一样。
He was actually in the second cast.
他实际上是第二个演员。
I didn't really intend to impersonate him or anything, but some of the time I would just kind of go with it and say, yeah, I was Danny.
我并不是真的打算模仿他或其他什么，但有时我会顺着说，是的，我是丹尼。
Which, technically speaking, was true.
从技术上来说，这是正确的。
And they would get all excited and think that they were with a celebrity.
他们会变得很兴奋，并认为他们和一位名人在一起。
So I did get some mileage out of that.
所以我确实从中得到了一些好处。
Oh, I was totally impressed.
哦，我完全被感动了。
Dan Gediman This is my friend, Angela.
丹·格迪曼 这是我的朋友安吉拉。
Yeah, I couldn't believe I knew somebody who had actually been on Zoom .
是的，我简直不敢相信我认识一个真正使用过 Zoom 的人。
It would be like knowing, you know, the guy who did Oscar the Grouch or something.
这就像认识，你知道，那个演过《爱发牢骚的奥斯卡》之类的人。
But then I was very sorry to hear that you were kicked off.
但后来得知你被踢掉了，我感到非常遗憾。
I think you would have made a fine Zoomer.
我想你会做出一个很好的变焦镜。
Actually, I think-- oh, I know what my response was.
事实上，我想——哦，我知道我的反应是什么。
My response was, you weren't Danny, were you?
我的回答是，你不是丹尼，是吗？
That's what it was.
就是这样。
Now, if that had been the case I don't know what I would have done.
现在，如果是这样的话我不知道我会做什么。
If I'd really been Danny?
如果我真的是丹尼呢？
Angela If you'd really been Danny, I'd-- you know, it'd probably be almost like-- not quite-- well, it wouldn't exactly be like meeting Donny Osmond.
安吉拉如果你真的是丹尼，我会——你知道，这可能几乎就像——不完全是——嗯，这不会完全像遇见唐尼·奥斯蒙德。
But it would have been up there, I would say.
但我想说，它本来就在那儿。
Yeah.
是的。
So you were disappointed when you found out--
所以当你发现时你很失望——
I wasn't disappointed.
我并没有失望。
But you know, it was a nice little thought there for a moment, that maybe you might have actually been him.
但你知道，那一刻我有一个美好的想法，也许你实际上就是他。
You know, I think everyone I talked to really wanted to make me feel better.
你知道，我认为与我交谈过的每个人都真的想让我感觉好一点。
It's OK that you weren't the real Danny.
没关系，你不是真正的丹尼。
You're a perfectly good Danny.
你是一个完美的丹尼。
By the way, do you know the real Danny?
顺便问一下，你认识真正的丹尼吗？
See, that's the problem, isn't it?
你看，这就是问题所在，不是吗？
Fame makes you more real.
名气让你更加真实。
And it's funny, we protect children from other adult experiences that have this kind of power, but not from this one.
有趣的是，我们保护孩子免受其他具有这种力量的成人经历的影响，但不保护孩子免受这种影响。
We don't let them drive cars or smoke or get married, but we let some of them be famous, and the other ones yearn for it.
我们不让他们开车、抽烟、结婚，但我们让他们中的一些人出名，而另一些人则向往。
And here's something else.
还有其他的事情。
WGBH is starting the whole thing up again.
WGBH 正在重新开始整个事情。
They're reviving Zoom right now.
他们现在正在复兴 Zoom。
They have a new cast, a new director.
他们有新的演员阵容、新的导演。
It's already hitting the airwaves in some markets.
它已经在一些市场上播出。
Back when our parents were young, they had the first interactive show for kids.
当我们的父母年轻时，他们为孩子们举办了第一场互动表演。
That was then and this is now!
那是过去，这是现在！
A brand new Zoom.
全新的变焦。
It's hip, it's hot, and it's for our generation.
它很时尚，很热，而且适合我们这一代人。
So I went back to Boston and dropped by.
所以我回到波士顿并顺道拜访了。
I wanted to see the new kids, imagine their futures, guess at their fame.
我想看看新来的孩子，想象他们的未来，猜测他们的名声。
What happened when you were finally told, all right, you're in?
当你最终被告知“好吧，你可以加入”时，发生了什么？
Well, I was at my friend's house and my mom called me.
嗯，我在朋友家，我妈妈给我打电话。
I answered the phone and she said, Haley, you're in Zoom, and I was screaming so loud.
我接了电话，她说，海莉，你在 Zoom，我尖叫得很大声。
My friends started screaming.
我的朋友们开始尖叫。
They didn't know what they were screaming about.
他们不知道自己在尖叫什么。
Then when I came home, everybody was jumping up and down in the driveway.
然后当我回到家时，每个人都在车道上跳来跳去。
So that was fun.
所以这很有趣。
Have you thought at all about when it happens-- when I was your age and I was going through this, I gave a lot of thought to, oh my god, I'm going to be famous.
你有没有想过什么时候会发生——当我在你这个年纪，正在经历这一切时，我想了很多，天哪，我会出名的。
You know?
你知道？
Have you thought at all about what it would be like to be famous?
你有没有想过出名会是什么样子？
Yes.
是的。
That'd be awesome.
那太棒了。
And if I did become famous, I'd try out for tons more stuff.
如果我真的出名了，我会尝试更多的东西。
But I don't really care about being famous.
但我真的不在乎出名。
I just like-- I've been in plays.
我只是喜欢——我一直在演戏剧。
And it's no different from being in like any TV show.
这与参加任何电视节目没有什么不同。
I just like it because it's fun, and I like to do this kind of stuff.
我只是喜欢它，因为它很有趣，而且我喜欢做这种事情。
But that'd be awesome if I was famous.
但如果我出名的话那就太棒了。
I'm Haley!
我是海莉！
Awesome.
惊人的。
Yeah.
是的。
Like Danny.
就像丹尼一样。
The real Zoom Danny, who I finally tracked down in Marlborough, Massachusetts, where he's working now as a musician.
真正的 Zoom Danny，我终于在马萨诸塞州马尔伯勒找到了他，他现在在那里担任音乐家。
I called him up.
我给他打电话。
[SINGING] Come on and zoom.
[唱歌] 来吧，变焦。
Come on and zoom, zoom.
来吧，变焦，变焦。
Come on and zoom.
来吧，变焦。
Come on and zoom, zoom.
来吧，变焦，变焦。
How's that?
怎么样？
Dan Gediman That sounds great.
丹·格迪曼 听起来不错。
Thanks.
谢谢。
Great song.
很棒的歌。
Dan Gediman I have spent almost 25 years, since my own involvement briefly with Zoom , being mistaken for you.
Dan Gediman 自从我短暂参与 Zoom 以来，我已经花了近 25 年时间被误认为是您。
No. Dan Gediman My name is Danny.
不，丹·格迪曼（Dan Gediman） 我的名字是丹尼。
You've never seen me, but I have-- when I was the age-- we're about the same age.
你从来没有见过我，但我见过——当我这个年纪的时候——我们年纪差不多。
And I had long, blond hair down to my shoulders.
我有一头长及肩的金发。
Thick Boston accent, it's gone now.
浓重的波士顿口音，现在已经消失了。
And we actually resembled each other a little bit.
事实上我们彼此有一点相似。
So as my teen years progressed, I would oh, meet somebody, often a member of the opposite sex, and I would start to tell them the story of how I almost got on Zoom , and they would look at me, and they would kind of size me up.
因此，随着我青少年时期的进展，我会遇到一些人，通常是异性，我会开始告诉他们我是如何差点上 Zoom 的故事，他们会看着我，他们会打量我。
And they'd say, you're Danny.
他们会说，你是丹尼。
I remember you.
我记得你。
You're Danny.
你是丹尼。
That's funny.
那很好笑。
Dan Gediman And I have to be honest with you, I did not always correct them.
Dan Gediman 我必须对你说实话，我并不总是纠正他们。
That's great.
那太棒了。
That's funny.
那很好笑。
Dan Gediman OK.
丹·格迪曼 好的。
I confessed.
我承认了。
I'll skip over this part, but basically Danny was nice about it.
我会跳过这一部分，但基本上丹尼对此很满意。
Maybe a little embarrassed for me.
也许对我来说有点尴尬。
Maybe a little flattered.
也许有点受宠若惊。
Like Tommy, he sent me a tape of the band he's in, just in case I wanted to use it in this show.
和汤米一样，他给我寄了一盘他所在乐队的磁带，以防万一我想在这个节目中使用它。
Here it is, by the way.
顺便说一下，它就在这里。
I told Danny about my friend Angela and how she was in love with him, second only to Donny Osmond.
我告诉丹尼我的朋友安吉拉，以及她如何爱他，仅次于唐尼·奥斯蒙德。
And he was flattered by that.
他对此感到受宠若惊。
So I asked him a favor, to say hi to her.
所以我请他帮个忙，向她打个招呼。
To give her kind of a radio autograph.
给她一个无线电签名。
If we could take 15 seconds, we would make this woman's day.
如果我们能花 15 秒，我们就会为这位女性创造一天。
She's now in her early 30s.
她现在30岁出头。
And just send a message out there to Angela.
只需向安吉拉发送一条消息即可。
Hi Angela, this is Danny from Zoom , and I heard you were my biggest fan.
嗨安吉拉，我是来自 Zoom 的丹尼，我听说你是我最大的粉丝。
It's great to get an opportunity to thank you for watching Zoom and being a fan of mine.
很高兴有机会感谢您观看 Zoom 并成为我的粉丝。
That means a lot to me.
这对我来说意义重大。
And I do get around.
我确实四处走动。
If you're ever up in the Boston area, look me up and it'd be great to get together and say hi in person.
如果您在波士顿地区，请找我，如果能见面并亲自打个招呼，那就太好了。
Take care and best of luck to you.
保重，祝你好运。
See how his voice sounds?
看看他的声音怎么样？
He knows he's the real Danny, that he can improvise a long paragraph like that to a complete stranger, a stranger who he assumes would want to look him up if they ever came to town.
他知道他是真正的丹尼，他可以向一个完全陌生的人即兴创作一个长段，他认为这个陌生人如果来到城里就会想找他。
And in fact, he's probably right.
事实上，他可能是对的。
He did it.
他做到了。
He was a Zoomer.
他是一名Zoomer。
It's part of him.
这是他的一部分。
Like Joe the psychiatrist says.
正如精神科医生乔所说。
It satisfied a very important part of my life, you know, that sense of having had that fame, having had that sense of being somebody special.
它满足了我生命中非常重要的一部分，你知道，那种拥有那种名气、那种成为一个特别的人的感觉。
And I don't need to do that anymore.
我不需要再这样做了。
It's nice.
很好。
You've just got to go on.
你只需要继续下去。
Do you remember me at all?
你还记得我吗？
Chris Sarson Oh, sure.
克里斯·萨森 哦，当然。
I don't remember your audition, and I don't remember-- although I certainly hope when I open the envelope I'll get a chance to see your face.
我不记得你的试镜，我也不记得——尽管我当然希望当我打开信封时我有机会看到你的脸。
Ground zero of my search.
我的搜索归零地。
Chris Sarson, the producer who rejected me.
克里斯·萨森（Chris Sarson），拒绝我的制片人。
He's sitting in a studio in Boulder, Colorado, and I'm in a studio in Kentucky.
他坐在科罗拉多州博尔德的一间工作室里，我坐在肯塔基州的一间工作室里。
Why don't you go ahead and open up the envelope I sent you and see if this does any good to jog your memory.
你为什么不打开我寄给你的信封，看看这是否有助于唤起你的记忆。
This was awkward.
这很尴尬。
Chris Sarson It's like Christmas.
克里斯·萨森 这就像圣诞节。
Christmas revisited.
圣诞节重温。
Good heavens.
天哪。
I remember you much better now.
我现在更记得你了。
As I suspected, he didn't really remember who I was, but he was nice about it.
正如我怀疑的那样，他并不记得我是谁，但他对此很友善。
It's a picture of presumably you, but it doesn't have-- oh, wait a minute, there's a note.
这大概是您的照片，但上面没有——哦，等一下，有一张纸条。
This is me--
这就是我——
Obviously this moment was a lot bigger in my life than in his.
显然，这一刻在我的生活中比在他的生活中重要得多。
Well, let me tell you what I recall of what happened and how I came to not be picked for the cast, et cetera.
好吧，让我告诉你我所记得的发生的事情以及我是如何没有被选为演员的，等等。
And tell me if this sounds plausible.
并告诉我这听起来是否合理。
OK.
好的。
I'm blushing already.
我已经脸红了
I wish we'd picked you!
我希望我们选择了你！
Well, you know, what can you do?
好吧，你知道，你能做什么？
This is what I recall.
这是我记得的。
So I told him what I remembered.
于是我就把我记得的事告诉了他。
And he thought my memory was probably right, but he wasn't sure.
他认为我的记忆可能是正确的，但他不确定。
And by this time, I've realized it doesn't matter much anyway.
到了这个时候，我已经意识到这并不重要。
And that's incredibly liberating.
这是令人难以置信的解放。
Correct me if I'm wrong, nobody really went on to a major showbiz career.
如果我错了，请纠正我，没有人真正进入了主要的演艺事业。
Well, I think it's lovely where the kids did end up.
嗯，我认为孩子们最终的结局很可爱。
Chris told me about the other cast members.
克里斯向我介绍了其他演员。
Most of them went on to lead a variety of perfectly ordinary lives.
他们中的大多数人继续过着各种完全平凡的生活。
None are big stars.
没有一个是大明星。
One sings with a symphony.
一个人用交响乐唱歌。
There are teachers, doctors, musicians.
有教师、医生、音乐家。
One was homeless for a while, and some reported having trouble in the aftermath of their brief fame on Zoom .
其中一人一度无家可归，还有一些人报告说，他们在 Zoom 上短暂成名后遇到了麻烦。
They were profoundly embarrassed that they'd been on that kid's show, you know, and one guy said that it wasn't until about three or four years ago that he was able to get out and finally admit without shame that he was on the Zoom cast.
他们对参加那个孩子的节目感到非常尴尬，你知道，一个人说直到大约三四年前他才能够退出并最终毫不羞耻地承认他是 Zoom 演员中的一员。
So it may not have been all rosy if you'd got on the show, Dan.
所以，丹，如果你参加了这个节目，情况可能并不那么乐观。
OK, I understand that now.
好吧，我现在明白了。
I really do.
我真的这么做。
Chances are, it wouldn't have changed my life.
很可能，它不会改变我的生活。
But still, I'd take it.
但我还是会接受。
That special time, that attention.
那个特殊的时刻，那个关注。
When all is said and done, I'd take my chances.
当一切都说了又做了之后，我会抓住机会。
I'd rather be a Zoom kid than just a kid.
我宁愿做一个 Zoom 孩子，而不仅仅是一个孩子。
Wouldn't you?
你不会吗？
But it's OK.
但没关系。
I'm still in the game.
我还在游戏中。
I write songs now.
我现在写歌。
As a matter of fact, that's me singing one of my original tunes in the background.
事实上，那是我在后台唱着我的原创歌曲。
And I'd like you to know that my tape is available by the way.
顺便说一句，我想让你知道我的磁带可以买到。
Dan Gediman's story was produced by Jay Allison as part of Jay's Life Stories series, which is funded by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the National Endowment for the Arts.
丹·格迪曼的故事由杰伊·艾利森制作，属于杰伊的生活故事系列的一部分，该系列由公共广播公司和国家艺术基金会资助。
Coming up, a childhood of lies that may have saved a life.
即将到来的是一个充满谎言的童年，这可能挽救了一条生命。
That's in a minute from Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we try to document every day life in these United States.
当然，在我们的节目中，我们每周都会尝试记录美国的日常生活。
Today's show, Truth and Lies at Age Ten.
今天的节目是《十岁时的真相与谎言》。
We've arrived at the second of our two stories, about children who lie to themselves, who lie to others, and who try to stop lying once they get to be adults.
我们已经讲到了两个故事中的第二个，关于孩子们对自己撒谎、对别人撒谎以及一旦长大就试图停止撒谎的故事。
Act Two, Truth or Consequences.
第二幕，真相还是后果。
Mary J.
玛丽·J。
Pruka was diagnosed with cystic fibrosis when she was two years old.
普鲁卡两岁时被诊断出患有囊性纤维化。
CF is a degenerative disease that primarily affects the lungs.
CF 是一种主要影响肺部的退行性疾病。
As your condition worsens your lungs fill with fluid and you have to do hours of respiratory therapy every day to clear out that fluid.
随着您的病情恶化，您的肺部充满液体，您必须每天进行数小时的呼吸治疗来清除这些液体。
Over time it gets so bad that you cannot clear that fluid.
随着时间的推移，情况会变得非常糟糕，以至于您无法清除这些液体。
Essentially, you drown.
本质上，你会被淹死。
Few children with CF live past the age of 18.
患有 CF 的儿童很少能活过 18 岁。
When Mary Kay was little, understandably, nobody told her that she would die so young.
可以理解的是，当玫琳凯还小的时候，没有人告诉她她会这么年轻就去世。
When she went to the doctor, she saw how nervous her mother was.
当她去看医生时，她看到母亲有多紧张。
She knew it was something serious.
她知道事情很严重。
But I don't remember myself ever knowing how serious it was or knowing fully what it meant.
但我不记得自己曾经知道这件事有多严重，也不知道它意味着什么。
And I don't think I asked the questions, maybe, that I needed to ask to find out.
我不认为我问了那些我需要问才能找到答案的问题。
And I can only assume that maybe I didn't want to know the answers or I just-- I guess that.
我只能假设也许我不想知道答案，或者我只是——我猜是这样。
That I just didn't want to know the answers.
我只是不想知道答案。
I was, I would guess, in the area of about seven years old.
我猜我大概七岁左右。
Truth and lies at age seven.
七岁时的真相与谎言。
Mary J.
玛丽·J。
Pruka That's when I first learned that CF was a deadly disease.
Pruka：那是我第一次知道 CF 是一种致命的疾病。
And I had gone off to a CF summer camp for the first time.
我第一次去参加 CF 夏令营。
And I was real nervous about going, but as soon as I got there I felt very comfortable.
去的时候我真的很紧张，但是一到那里我就感觉很舒服。
I was put into a cabin with maybe 12 other girls, and we had a leader whose name was Beth.
我和另外 12 个女孩被安排在一个小屋里，我们有一个领导者，名叫贝丝。
And I immediately clicked with her, I was her shadow the entire week.
我立刻就和她产生了共鸣，整个星期我都是她的影子。
And during the camp we would have an early breakfast, and then afterwards we would go and do respiratory therapy.
在营地期间，我们会早点吃早餐，然后我们会去做呼吸治疗。
And at that time, I was not doing respiratory at home on a routine basis.
那时，我并没有在家中定期进行呼吸治疗。
But I noticed that some of the other children at camp needed this.
但我注意到营地里的其他一些孩子也需要这个。
They had to do this every day.
他们每天都必须这样做。
And I just kind of sat back and watched.
我只是坐下来观看。
I really didn't feel like I was a participant in that, or that I had the same disease that all these other children had.
我真的不觉得自己是其中的参与者，也不觉得自己患有与所有其他孩子相同的疾病。
And so I wasn't forced that first year to really think about why I was there.
所以第一年我并没有被迫真正思考我为什么在那里。
I was very excited to go back.
我很高兴能回去。
And my first question, when I got there, was where's Beth?
当我到达那里时，我的第一个问题是贝丝在哪里？
She was the one who, the first year, who I palled around with and followed.
第一年，我就和她交往并跟随她。
Here I go.
我来了。
I just remember that she wasn't there.
我只记得她不在。
And that they told me that she had died of CF.
他们告诉我她死于CF。
And I thought, oh my god.
我想，天啊。
You know?
你知道？
I have CF and nobody ever told me I was going to die.
我患有CF，但没有人告诉我我会死。
And I think a real panic set in.
我认为真正的恐慌开始了。
My first thought was, I've got to get out of here.
我的第一个念头是，我必须离开这里。
I've got to leave right now and go home.
我现在必须离开并回家。
And I remember I just cried.
我记得我刚刚哭了。
I cried.
我哭了。
I didn't tell anybody, I didn't say to anybody, I'm scared, I didn't know that people could die of CF.
我没有告诉任何人，我没有对任何人说，我很害怕，我不知道人们会死于CF。
So it was my aunt and uncle who came and picked me up along with their kids.
所以是我的阿姨和叔叔带着他们的孩子来接我的。
And they're all saying, you're a baby.
他们都说，你还是个孩子。
Why are you crying to come home?
你为什么哭着要回家？
You know, I really think I believed that if we talked about the possibility that I would die, it could happen.
你知道，我真的认为我相信如果我们谈论我会死的可能性，它就会发生。
Just saying the words would be enough to make it happen.
只要说出这句话就足以实现这一目标。
So even if I got nervous about it, or I had discussions with myself about it, if I didn't verbalize it I would be safe.
因此，即使我对此感到紧张，或者我与自己讨论过这件事，如果我不用语言表达出来，我就会安全。
Or even to say it and let my mom hear it would be even worse.
或者说出来让我妈妈听到会更糟糕。
Because I saw that she was afraid of it and she didn't talk about it.
因为我看到她害怕这件事，所以不说。
So this must be the best way to handle it, is to just not talk about it.
所以这一定是最好的处理方法，就是不谈论它。
I know my parents were devastated by it.
我知道我的父母为此伤心欲绝。
I know my mom's initial reaction was that if we just stay positive and maybe not think about it, the bad won't happen.
我知道我妈妈的最初反应是，如果我们保持积极态度，也许不去想它，那么糟糕的事情就不会发生。
We'll just focus on today and we'll raise her like the other two children.
我们只关注今天，我们会像其他两个孩子一样抚养她。
And that was her way of handling it and not thinking about or dealing with the possibility that I might not live long.
这就是她处理这件事的方式，没有考虑或处理我可能活不了多久的可能性。
But my dad and I have never talked about it.
但我和我爸从来没有谈过这件事。
I've tried on a number of occasions to have conversations with him about it.
我曾多次尝试与他就此进行对话。
And in my 20s, my CF began to progress, and I began to get worse.
在我20多岁的时候，我的CF开始进步，我的情况开始变得更糟。
And I didn't see my dad very often, so I had a feeling that he didn't know this was happening.
而且我不常见到我父亲，所以我有一种感觉，他不知道发生了这件事。
And at that point, I began to have frequent hospital stays.
从那时起，我开始频繁住院。
And I would call him and say, Dad, I'm in the hospital, for example.
我会打电话给他说，爸爸，例如，我在医院。
And he'd say, oh, OK.
他会说，哦，好吧。
And I'd say, well, I'm here for IV therapy.
我会说，好吧，我来这里接受静脉注射治疗。
And he'd say, OK, so what else is new?
他会说，好吧，那还有什么新鲜事吗？
As if there's something else new when you're in the hospital.
就好像你在医院的时候又有了新的东西一样。
And I can remember him-- or even changing the subject to, what have your sister and brother been up to?
我还记得他——甚至可以换个话题，你的姐姐和哥哥在做什么？
Truth and lies at age 15.
15岁时的真相与谎言。
Mary J.
玛丽·J。
Pruka Through the teenage years I think I lived in a fog, like I think a lot of teenagers do.
普鲁卡：在青少年时期，我想我生活在迷雾中，就像我认为很多青少年一样。
You don't-- you just don't think about the serious life issues that you have to think about.
你不会——你只是不会考虑你必须考虑的严肃的生活问题。
And I think all teenagers think they're invincible.
我认为所有青少年都认为自己是无敌的。
Even when you have a disease, you think you're invincible.
即使你有病，你也认为自己是无敌的。
Even though you have hard facts in front of you.
尽管摆在你面前的是铁一般的事实。
So I just didn't think about it.
所以我只是没有考虑。
I really was able to get away without thinking about it.
我真的想都没想就逃脱了。
I really didn't think beyond now.
我现在真的没想到更多。
The right now.
就是现在。
Truth and lies at age 18.
18岁的真相与谎言。
At college, for the first time, Mary started to face up to the facts of her situation.
在大学里，玛丽第一次开始正视自己的处境。
And, as it often happens, she was forced into doing this because she faced a crisis in her own life.
而且，正如经常发生的那样，她被迫这样做是因为她面临着自己的生活危机。
And what started the crisis was the fact that, for the first time in her life, she was at a place where she had to think about the future.
这场危机的根源在于，她有生以来第一次面临必须思考未来的境地。
College is about the future.
大学关乎未来。
And everybody around Mary Kay had a plan, a purpose, while she had nothing like that.
玫琳凯周围的每个人都有一个计划、一个目标，而她却没有这样的计划。
Meanwhile she was getting sicker, having coughing fits more often, and she was starting to change in other ways.
与此同时，她的病情越来越严重，咳嗽也越来越频繁，而且她也开始在其他方面发生变化。
But the summer before I went away to Southern Illinois University, I met my husband.
但在我去南伊利诺伊大学之前的那个夏天，我遇到了我的丈夫。
And on our first dinner date-- whenever I had a dinner date, or any time I was eating a meal with friends, I had to take my pills.
在我们第一次晚餐约会时——每当我有一个晚餐约会，或者任何时候我和朋友一起吃饭时，我都必须服药。
And there was 10 large capsules, so it wasn't anything I could hide at the table.
而且有 10 个大胶囊，所以它不是我可以藏在桌子上的任何东西。
And oftentimes, most times, I would go into the bathroom and take them, so as not to make a scene.
很多时候，大多数时候，我会走进浴室把它们带走，以免大吵大闹。
And on our first dinner date, I remember boldly taking them out and swallowing them down, knowing that he was going to ask me what I was doing.
在我们第一次晚餐约会时，我记得大胆地把它们拿出来吞下去，因为我知道他会问我在做什么。
And I think in some ways I was challenging him.
我认为在某些方面我是在挑战他。
Go ahead.
前进。
Go ahead and ask me what this means.
来吧，问我这意味着什么。
And I knew this was going to be, either he was going to accept it and it would be OK.
我知道事情会这样，要么他接受，那就没问题。
Or it was going to be like past times where no questions were asked, and I got the feeling they didn't want to know anyway, and so we didn't talk about it.
或者就像过去那样，没有人问任何问题，而且我感觉他们无论如何也不想知道，所以我们没有谈论它。
And his first reaction was, what is that?
他的第一反应是，那是什么？
And what does that mean?
这意味着什么？
And what is cystic fibrosis?
什么是囊性纤维化？
And then that week, he must have asked me 50 questions.
那一周，他肯定问了我 50 个问题。
And I remember thinking, my god, he's really interested.
我记得我当时想，天哪，他真的很感兴趣。
And he was probably the first person that asked the questions and I answered them.
他可能是第一个提出问题并由我回答的人。
But I think I'd reached a point where I said, I'm not going to pretend this doesn't exist anymore.
但我想我已经达到了我所说的地步，我不会假装这不再存在了。
It's a part of me.
这是我的一部分。
This is who I am.
这就是我。
And I need to start talking about it.
我需要开始谈论它。
When I went away to SIU I felt very homesick.
当我去SIU时，我感到非常想家。
And I think I really begin to think, at that point, that I had met somebody who I wanted to spend all of my time with.
我想我真的开始认为，从那时起，我遇到了一个我想与之共度一生的人。
That I was now wasting precious time that I had, being away at school, that I should be spending with him.
我现在正在浪费宝贵的时间，不在学校，而我应该和他一起度过。
And I was beginning to have the sense that I don't know how long I have.
我开始感觉到我不知道自己还能活多久。
And I need to now-- now that I have something that I want to do-- I need to do this and I need to leave school.
我现在需要——既然我有自己想做的事情——我需要这样做，而且我需要离开学校。
But something else happened during this time.
但这期间还发生了一些其他的事情。
This is something that may be very minor for some people, but this was a really big deal for me, is that I got braces during this time.
这对某些人来说可能是很小的事情，但对我来说却是一件大事，因为我在这段时间戴上了牙套。
And for me that was a big, big step in planning for the future.
对我来说，这是规划未来的一大步。
Because I remember thinking-- it was a big expense-- and for me, it was the first time that I really took on an expense for myself.
因为我记得我当时想——这是一笔很大的开支——对我来说，这是我第一次真正为自己承担开支。
And I remember thinking to myself, now, am I going to die in a couple years anyway?
我记得我当时在想，现在我会在几年后死去吗？
And this is the biggest purchase I had ever made.
这是我有史以来最大的一次购买。
And I thought, do I really want to get braces and invest all of this into my-- you know, into my teeth and into my looks?
我想，我真的想戴牙套并将所有这些投入到我的——你知道的，我的牙齿和我的外表上吗？
And how long am I really going to live anyway?
我到底还能活多久？
And just getting-- in just making that decision and deciding to go ahead and get braces, for me, it meant that I had enough confidence in the future, even if it only meant the next five to seven years.
对我来说，做出这个决定并决定继续戴牙套就意味着我对未来有足够的信心，即使这只意味着未来五到七年。
I had to sort of weigh, well, if I live only five years, will it be worth the investment?
我必须权衡一下，如果我只能活五年，值得投资吗？
And I thought, yeah, it's worth the investment.
我想，是的，这是值得投资的。
My health was starting to decline.
我的健康状况开始恶化。
It was starting to now become something I had to think about every day.
现在它开始成为我每天必须思考的事情。
And amazingly, at that time, John decided that he was going to be the person to do my respiratory therapy every day.
令人惊讶的是，就在那时，约翰决定他将成为我每天进行呼吸治疗的人。
And in order to do respiratory therapy, the object is to loosen the secretions in my lungs.
而呼吸治疗的目的就是要疏通肺部的分泌物。
And as the disease progresses, my lungs begin to fill up with fluid every day.
随着病情的进展，我的肺部开始每天充满液体。
And if I didn't get the fluid out I couldn't breathe.
如果我不把液体排出来，我就无法呼吸。
And so what he would do is he would just get behind me and start to pound on my back at the different lobes of my lungs.
所以他会做的就是走到我身后，开始敲击我背上的不同肺叶。
And that would loosen the secretions.
这会放松分泌物。
And then by using his hands on my back, in a sort of vibration, I could then cough out the secretions.
然后用他的手放在我的背上，以某种振动的方式，我就可以咳出分泌物。
And there's nothing pretty about it.
这没什么好看的。
It's very disgusting.
非常恶心。
And this is just something that you can't imagine couples sharing.
而这只是你无法想象情侣能分享的东西。
Or you would think if you met somebody, you would be embarrassed to involve them in, in respiratory therapy.
或者你会想，如果你遇到某人，你会不好意思让他们参与呼吸治疗。
But when we finished doing the respiratory therapy, and I could breathe better, he felt better.
但当我们完成呼吸治疗后，我可以更好地呼吸，他感觉好多了。
And it is-- it is very intimate.
这是非常亲密的。
We would sometimes joke about it.
我们有时会拿它开玩笑。
We were forced to spend this time together.
我们被迫一起度过这段时间。
If we had had an argument five minutes earlier, it had to be done and over with, because I needed to breathe.
如果我们在五分钟前发生了争吵，就必须结束，因为我需要呼吸。
And so we called it our therapy.
所以我们称之为我们的疗法。
Besides being respiratory therapy, our couple therapy.
除了呼吸疗法之外，还有我们的夫妻疗法。
And it was intimate and that it would bring us together.
这是很亲密的，它会让我们走到一起。
And we were forced to sit and do this.
我们被迫坐下来这样做。
We got engaged when we were both 23 years old.
我们在 23 岁时订婚了。
We had been dating now for four years.
我们已经约会四年了。
And this was a big, big step for me.
这对我来说是非常非常大的一步。
Getting engaged.
订婚了。
And we had a great wedding.
我们举行了一场盛大的婚礼。
I was terrified the whole day.
我一整天都害怕极了。
I was just very nervous.
我只是非常紧张。
Because this meant so much.
因为这意义重大。
It meant that I believed I was going to have a future.
这意味着我相信我会有未来。
And it meant that for everybody in the room, and everybody in the church, that they believed I believed I had a future.
这意味着对于房间里的每个人以及教堂里的每个人来说，他们相信我相信我有一个未来。
And I wondered, how many people behind me are doubting?
我想知道，我身后有多少人在怀疑？
Are thinking I'm kidding myself?
是不是觉得我在自欺欺人？
I was always afraid people thought I was kidding myself.
我总是害怕人们认为我在欺骗自己。
And I even wondered, am I kidding myself?
我什至想知道，我是在欺骗自己吗？
Or who am I fooling, to think that I'm going to get married today and have a whole future ahead?
或者我在愚弄谁，以为我今天就要结婚并拥有美好的未来？
I had one really bad episode at the reception.
我在接待处遇到了非常糟糕的一件事。
And that was, I was having increased trouble breathing around this time.
也就是说，这段时间我的呼吸困难更加严重。
And I had just begun having episodes of hemoptysis.
我刚刚开始出现咯血症状。
And that is when bleeding starts in the lungs and you start to just cough up blood and choke on blood.
这时肺部开始出血，你开始咳血并因血而窒息。
And during the reception I was dancing and there was a bunch of people dancing.
在招待会期间，我在跳舞，还有一群人在跳舞。
And we were actually playing a game of musical chairs and the men were all the chairs.
我们实际上是在玩音乐椅游戏，而男人都是椅子。
They were getting down on one knee so the women could sit on their knee.
他们单膝跪下，这样女人们就可以坐在她们的膝盖上。
And this was kind of happening like a musical chairs game.
这有点像抢椅子游戏。
And just as the game was over, I had the real familiar cough.
比赛刚结束，我就开始了真正熟悉的咳嗽。
And I started to feel my chest filling with blood.
我开始感觉我的胸口充满了血液。
And it's just a horrifying feeling of panic.
这只是一种可怕的恐慌感。
And I knew what was going to happen.
我知道会发生什么。
I had a white gown on and I just ran to the bathroom.
我穿着一件白色的礼服，就跑进了浴室。
And started coughing up blood.
并且开始咳血。
And so that kind of just changed the whole mood then of the day for me.
所以这改变了我当天的整个心情。
Because that was-- this was the one day that I was not going to think about CF, and there it was, right in my face.
因为那是——这一天我不会再去想 CF，而它就在我面前。
Truth and lies at age 24.
24岁的真相与谎言。
Mary Kay's health deteriorated.
玫琳凯的健康状况恶化。
Her lungs were failing.
她的肺衰竭了。
She tried to get answers about her condition from her doctor who only told her not to worry.
她试图从医生那里得到有关她病情的答案，但医生只是告诉她不要担心。
So ready to face the truth, she got another doctor, one who told her that she was in the final stages of the disease.
准备好面对真相后，她找到了另一位医生，医生告诉她，她已处于疾病的最后阶段。
It was a rather jolting dose of reality.
这是一个相当令人震惊的现实。
Mary Kay told her mother that she hated her new doctor, would never see the new doctor again.
玫琳凯告诉她的母亲，她讨厌她的新医生，再也不会去看新医生了。
This feeling didn't last.
这种感觉并没有持续多久。
Mary Kay started to investigate more aggressive treatments for CF with her doctor.
玫琳凯开始与她的医生一起研究更积极的 CF 治疗方法。
Finally, at the age of 30, Mary Kay was in her kitchen reaching for a glass and suddenly she began choking and coughed up a bowl of blood.
最后，30 岁时，玫琳凯在厨房里伸手去拿玻璃杯，突然她开始窒息并咳出一碗血。
When doctors tried to operate, she had a stroke on the operating table.
当医生尝试进行手术时，她在手术台上中风了。
They signed her up for a lung transplant, which they only do if they think you don't have much longer to live.
他们为她办理了肺移植手术，只有当他们认为你的生命不多时才会这样做。
Mary Kay waited 13 months for a donor.
玫琳凯等待捐赠者长达 13 个月。
I remember Christmas time in December that I really began to think that this really, really might be my last Christmas.
我记得十二月的圣诞节，我真的开始觉得这真的真的可能是我最后一个圣诞节了。
And I really had an awful Christmas.
我真的度过了一个糟糕的圣诞节。
I spent the day-- I spent the day imagining next Christmas and my family not having me there.
我花了这一天——我花了一天的时间想象下一个圣诞节，我的家人没有我在那里。
And I couldn't help imagining this picture without me.
我忍不住想象这张没有我的照片。
And what would it be like?
那会是什么样子呢？
And what would my family be like?
我的家庭会是什么样子？
And how would they handle my death.
他们会如何处理我的死亡。
I had finally had a conversation with my mom.
我终于可以和妈妈好好谈谈了。
And I told her that I was afraid to die.
我告诉她我害怕死。
And she said, I know.
她说，我知道。
And she hugged me.
她拥抱了我。
And that was a big moment for us.
这对我们来说是一个重要时刻。
Because we had never-- she knew I was afraid, and this was our fear all along.
因为我们从来没有——她知道我害怕，而这一直是我们的恐惧。
And we had never really verbalized it.
我们从来没有真正用语言表达过它。
And we were just standing in my bedroom and she was helping me get dressed or something like that.
我们就站在我的卧室里，她正在帮我穿衣服或做类似的事情。
And I just said, you know, this disease just might get me.
我只是说，你知道，这种病可能会感染我。
I really thought I might beat it, but I don't know anymore.
我真的以为我可以打败它，但我不知道了。
And she just said, we just have to get those lungs.
她只是说，我们只需要得到那些肺。
We just have to keep praying for those lungs.
我们只需要继续为那些肺部祈祷。
And so that's what we did.
这就是我们所做的。
And I just-- we just hoped all the time.
我只是——我们一直都希望。
Every time I watched the news, I would-- it sounds really terrible-- but I would hear of an accident and I would think, you know, that's really a shame.
每次我看新闻时，我都会——听起来真的很可怕——但当我听到发生事故时，我会想，你知道，这真的很遗憾。
But I wonder if they'll donate the organs.
但我想知道他们是否会捐献器官。
And you feel terrible thinking that way.
你这样想会感觉很糟糕。
And I remember my mom telling me that she had thoughts like that.
我记得我妈妈告诉我她有这样的想法。
And she felt terribly guilty after thinking that.
想到这里，她感到非常内疚。
But I spent a lot of time preoccupied with death during that time.
但那段时间我花了很多时间思考死亡。
Truth and lies at age 31.
31岁的真相与谎言。
After 13 months, Mary Kay got her transplant.
13 个月后，玫琳凯接受了移植手术。
She said that she had never experienced before this what it was like to be healthy.
她说，她以前从未体验过健康是什么感觉。
She did not even know how to imagine what it was going to be like.
她甚至不知道该如何想象那会是什么样子。
Suddenly she could breathe.
突然她可以呼吸了。
The purpose of her life was no longer simply staying alive.
她人生的目的不再只是活着。
Now she's 33 years old.
现在她已经33岁了。
Since her transplant, she's had two children, twin girls.
自从移植后，她有了两个孩子，是双胞胎女儿。
And though one of the central struggles of her life has been to learn to face the truth about her own disease, she says there is a time and place for lying to yourself.
尽管她一生的核心斗争之一是学会面对自己疾病的真相，但她说，有时和地方都会对自己撒谎。
About the age of 10, I don't think I was very honest with myself about the illness that I had.
大约 10 岁时，我认为我对自己所患的疾病不太诚实。
I honestly don't think I would have it differently at that point.
老实说，我认为那时我不会有什么不同。
I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I had been told early on that I was probably going to die at the age of, you know, in my teen years, for example.
有时我想知道，如果我很早就被告知我可能会在我十几岁的时候死去，我的生活会是什么样子。
Which is, I believe, what my mother was being told at that time.
我相信，这就是我母亲当时被告知的。
I think that news in itself can be crippling.
我认为新闻本身可能会造成严重后果。
And because I wasn't feeling the effects of the disease yet, I don't believe I needed to know it then.
因为我还没有感受到这种疾病的影响，所以我认为我当时不需要知道它。
But I have to look back and wonder if the fact that I did so well has something to do with the ignorance that I had at that time.
但我必须回头想想，我做得这么好，是否与我当时的无知有关。
Mary J.
玛丽·J。
Pruka, she spoke with reporter Adam Davidson.
普鲁卡，她接受了记者亚当·戴维森的采访。
Well, our program was produced today by Julie Snyder and myself, with Alix Spiegel and Nancy Updike.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由朱莉·斯奈德和我本人以及阿利克斯·斯皮格尔和南希·厄普代克制作的。
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] editor, Paul Tough.
[无法理解] 编辑，Paul Tough。
Contributing editors, Jack Hitt, [?
特约编辑，杰克·希特，[？
Margie Rocklin, ?] and consigliere Sarah Vowell.
玛吉·罗克林（Margie Rocklin），？]和顾问莎拉·沃威尔（Sarah Vowell）。
Production help from [?
来自 [?的生产帮助
Sylvia Leemis, ?] [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [?
西尔维娅·李米斯，？] [无法理解] [？
Davenport ?], and [?
达文波特？]，和[？
Laura ?] [?
劳拉？] [？
Doggett ?], who interviewed Claire, the non-Chilean woman at the beginning of our broadcast.
Doggett ？]，她在我们的广播开始时采访了非智利女性克莱尔。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Dan Gediman has asked us to mention that his CD can be purchased at 1-800-BUY-MYCD.
[鸣谢] Dan Gediman 要求我们提及他的 CD 可以通过 1-800-BUY-MYCD 购买。
And we would like to take a moment to point out that Mary Kay Pruka's life was saved, and she had two beautiful baby girls who are actually here in our studio today, only because somebody signed the organ donor release on the back of their driver's license.
我们想花点时间指出，玫琳凯·普鲁卡（Mary Kay Pruka）的生命被挽救了，她有两个漂亮的女婴，她们今天实际上在我们的工作室里，只是因为有人在驾照背面签署了器官捐赠授权书。
We don't usually say this kind of the thing on the show, but I would urge you to consider taking out your license right this second and signing up right now.
我们通常不会在节目中说这种话，但我强烈建议您考虑立即拿出许可证并立即注册。
If you want to buy a cassette of our program, you can call us here at WBEZ in Chicago.
如果您想购买我们节目的磁带，您可以致电我们位于芝加哥的 WBEZ。
312-832-3380.
312-832-3380。
312-832-3380.
312-832-3380。
Our email address, [email protected] .
我们的电子邮件地址，[电子邮件受保护]。
Or you know you can listen to nearly all of our shows for free on the internet, www.thislife.org.
或者您知道您可以在互联网上免费收听我们的几乎所有节目，www.thislife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
[FUNDING CREDITS] WBEZ management oversight by Torey Malatia who walks into our studio after each and every show with this request.
[资金来源] WBEZ 管理由 Torey Malatia 负责监督，他在每场演出结束后都会带着这个请求走进我们的工作室。
You're not asked this very often, I'm wondering if you could autograph your picture here.
你不经常被问到这个问题，我想知道你是否可以在这里给你的照片签名。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。