Why most public speaking advice is wrong—and how to finally overcome anxiety | Tristan de Montebello

为什么大多数公开演讲建议都是错误的——以及如何最终克服焦虑|特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗

2024-10-13 · Lenny's Podcast · 原文

Tristan de Montebello: People tend to get into a public speaking voice.

Tristan de Montebello：人们倾向于公开演讲。

We'll be in a class and they'll be chatting normally and look super normal.

我们会在一个班级里，他们会正常聊天，看起来也很正常。

And then we'll say, "Okay, now just a timer, I'm just going to give you a speech.

然后我们会说：“好吧，现在只是一个计时器，我要给你们做一个演讲。

Just speak for 60 seconds so we get a baseline," and I click play, and suddenly I say, "The important part about doing this," and they enter into a different version of themselves, a professional version, whatever that would mean.

只需说 60 秒，这样我们就可以得到一个基线，”然后我点击播放，然后我突然说，“做这件事的重要部分，”然后他们进入了自己的不同版本，一个专业版本，无论这意味着什么。

It's so much more freeing, powerful, connecting, and effective to speak conversation.

交谈变得更加自由、强大、有联系且有效。

So the cue I often give people is-

所以我经常给人们的暗示是——

Lenny Rachitsky: Today my guest is Tristan de Montebello.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：今天我的客人是特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗。

Tristan is the co-Creator of Ultraspeaking, which is the best public speaking workshop I have ever come across.

Tristan 是 Ultraspeaking 的共同创始人，这是我遇到过的最好的公开演讲研讨会。

In 2017, Tristan became the fastest competitor to reach the finals of the world championship of public speaking.

2017年，特里斯坦成为最快进入公开演讲世界锦标赛决赛的选手。

And based on that experience, built a very unique course that helps you quickly build the skills to become better and to become more comfortable speaking in public, and especially speaking on the spot.

基于这些经验，我们建立了一个非常独特的课程，帮助您快速培养技能，使您变得更好，更轻松地在公共场合演讲，特别是在现场演讲。

Lenny Rachitsky: I'd like to spend time on this topic on this podcast because becoming a better speaker is such an accelerant of your professional life.

Lenny Rachitsky：我想在这个播客上花时间讨论这个话题，因为成为一名更好的演讲者对你的职业生涯来说是一个促进剂。

And in this episode, we delve into a bunch of tactics and also misconceptions about how to become a better speaker, and to make it even more fun and interesting, we go through a few of the exercises that Tristan and his team have developed live on the podcast.

在这一集中，我们深入研究了一系列关于如何成为更好的演讲者的策略和误解，为了让它变得更加有趣，我们完成了特里斯坦和他的团队在播客上现场开发的一些练习。

He goes through them, I go through them, it was a lot of fun.

他经历过它们，我经历过它们，这很有趣。

I'm excited to hear what you think.

If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.

如果您喜欢这个播客，请不要忘记订阅并在您最喜欢的播客应用程序或 YouTube 中关注它。

It's the best way to avoid missing future episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously.

这是避免错过未来剧集的最佳方式，并且对播客有很大帮助。

With that, I bring you, Tristan de Montebello.

就这样，我给你带来了特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗。

Lenny Rachitsky: Tristan, thank you so much for joining me and welcome to the podcast.

Lenny Rachitsky：特里斯坦，非常感谢你加入我的行列，欢迎来到播客。

Lenny Rachitsky: So I took an abridged version of this speaking course that you teach called Ultraspeaking, and it immediately made me feel more comfortable public speaking, which I've never felt doing any other course.

Lenny Rachitsky：所以我选修了您教授的演讲课程“Ultraspeaking”的精简版，它立即让我在公开演讲中感到更加自在，这是我在其他任何课程中从未有过的感觉。

Public speaking is something it's just is very scary to me as it is for a lot of people, but it's just something I really dread.

公开演讲对我来说非常可怕，对很多人来说也是如此，但这只是我真正害怕的事情。

Even doing these podcast episodes, every time I get nervous before doing these things, as much as it may not seem that way.

即使做这些播客节目，每次我在做这些事情之前都会感到紧张，尽管看起来可能并非如此。

So this is not my natural habitat speaking, being in public.

所以这不是我在公共场合说话的自然栖息地。

It may not seem that way to people, but it's true.

人们可能不这么认为，但事实就是如此。

Lenny Rachitsky: And the way you approach this stuff is so unique and worked for me.

Lenny Rachitsky：你处理这些东西的方式非常独特，对我来说很有效。

And because of that, I thought it'd be awesome to just bring you on this podcast and basically try to teach people the stuff that you've learned about how to become a better public speaker.

正因为如此，我认为让您参加这个播客并基本上尝试向人们传授您所学到的有关如何成为更好的公共演讲者的知识真是太棒了。

I know we're not going to do your course here, but just, what are some very tactical things people can immediately start to apply?

我知道我们不会在这里学习您的课程，但是，人们可以立即开始应用哪些非常战术性的东西？

And also, I want to make the super interactive, so we're actually going to do some of the exercises that you use in your class.

而且，我想让超级互动，所以我们实际上要做一些你在课堂上使用的练习。

So that's what we're here for.

How does that sound?

听起来怎么样？

Great.: This episode is brought to you by Eppo.

太棒了：这一集是由 Eppo 为您带来的。

Eppo is a next-generation, A/B testing and feature management platform built by alums of Airbnb and Snowflake for modern growth teams.

Eppo 是由 Airbnb 和 Snowflake 的校友为现代增长团队构建的下一代 A/B 测试和功能管理平台。

Companies like Twitch, Miro, ClickUp and DraftKings rely on Eppo to power their experiments.

Twitch、Miro、ClickUp 和 DraftKings 等公司依靠 Eppo 来支持他们的实验。

Experimentation is increasingly essential for driving growth and for understanding the performance of new features.

实验对于推动增长和了解新功能的性能越来越重要。

And Eppo helps you increase experimentation velocity while unlocking rigorous, deep analysis in a way that no other commercial tool does.

Eppo 可以帮助您提高实验速度，同时以其他商业工具无法做到的方式进行严格、深入的分析。

When I was at Airbnb, one of the things that I loved most was our experimentation platform, where I could set up experiments easily, troubleshoot issues, and analyze performance all on my own.

当我在 Airbnb 时，我最喜欢的事情之一就是我们的实验平台，在这里我可以轻松地自行设置实验、解决问题并分析性能。

Eppo does all that and more with advanced statistical methods that can help you shave weeks off experiment time and accessible UI for diving deeper into performance, and out-of-the-box reporting that helps you avoid annoying prolonged analytic cycles.

Eppo 通过先进的统计方法完成了这一切，并提供了更多功能，可以帮助您缩短数周的实验时间，可访问的 UI 可以更深入地了解性能，而开箱即用的报告可以帮助您避免烦人的长时间分析周期。

Great.: Eppo also makes it easy for you to share experiment insights with your team, sparking new ideas for the A/B testing flywheel.

太棒了。：Eppo 还使您可以轻松地与您的团队分享实验见解，激发 A/B 测试飞轮的新想法。

Eppo powers experimentation across every use case, including product, growth, machine learning, monetization, and email marketing.

Eppo 为每个用例提供实验支持，包括产品、增长、机器学习、货币化和电子邮件营销。

Check out Eppo at geteppo.com/lenny and 10X your experiment velocity.

请访问 geteppo.com/lenny 查看 Eppo，将您的实验速度提高 10 倍。

That's geteppo.com/lenny.

那是 geteppo.com/lenny。

Great.: Today's episode is brought to you by Command AI.

太棒了：今天的节目是由 Command AI 为您带来的。

If you're like me and most users that I've built product for, you're probably used to chatbots at the bottom right of websites, where you ask a question and it says something like, " Check out these three helpful articles.

如果您像我和我为其构建产品的大多数用户一样，您可能已经习惯了网站右下角的聊天机器人，您在其中提出问题，它会说“查看这三篇有用的文章”。

Did that answer your question?" And then you click away and then a few seconds later you get bombarded with some other useless pop-ups.

这回答了你的问题吗？”然后你点击离开，几秒钟后你就会受到其他一些无用的弹出窗口的轰炸。

For those of us who work on software, no one wants their product to feel like this.

对于我们这些从事软件工作的人来说，没有人希望他们的产品是这样的。

Command AI is an AI power toolkit for support, product, growth and marketing teams that embeds in your company's product.

Command AI 是一个人工智能强大工具包，适用于嵌入到您公司产品中的支持、产品、增长和营销团队。

The AI support agent can deflect upwards of 80% of support questions, providing actually useful answers, and it can magically co-browse with your users to show them around your interface.

AI 支持代理可以转移 80% 以上的支持问题，提供实际有用的答案，并且它可以神奇地与您的用户共同浏览，向他们展示您的界面。

They do pop-ups too, but their nudges are based on in-product behaviors like confusion or intent classification, which makes them much less annoying and much more impactful.

他们也做弹出窗口，但他们的推动是基于产品内的行为，如混淆或意图分类，这使得它们不那么烦人，而且更有影响力。

Great.: Command AI works with web apps, mobile apps and websites, and they work with industry-leading companies like Gusto, Freshworks, HashiCorp, LaunchDarkly, and over 25 million end users interact with Command AI interfaces.

太棒了：Command AI 可与 Web 应用程序、移动应用程序和网站配合使用，并且与 Gusto、Freshworks、HashiCorp、LaunchDarkly 等行业领先公司合作，超过 2500 万最终用户与 Command AI 界面进行交互。

To try out Command AI.

尝试 Command AI。

You can sign up at command.ai/lenny and experience a custom demo of how it works in your app.

您可以在 command.ai/lenny 上注册并体验它在您的应用程序中如何工作的自定义演示。

That's command.ai/lenny.

那是command.ai/lenny。

Great.: Okay, so let me first ask just kind of a broad question.

太好了。：好的，让我先问一个广泛的问题。

What do most people get wrong about public speaking?

大多数人对公开演讲有什么误解？

What are some of, what's maybe the biggest misconception about how to become a better public speaker and how to be good at it?

关于如何成为一名更好的公共演讲者以及如何擅长演讲，最大的误解是什么？

Tristan de Montebello: I actually think that the biggest misconception with tackling your speaking is that people grossly underestimate just how transformative it could be to your life.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：实际上，我认为解决你的演讲问题的最大误解是，人们严重低估了它对你生活的变革程度。

And the reason it's so transformative is because speaking is not a specialized skill, it's a meta skill.

它之所以如此具有变革性，是因为演讲不是一项专门技能，而是一项元技能。

That means that the better you get at speaking, the better your life gets.

这意味着你的演讲越好，你的生活就越好。

Tristan de Montebello: So an example of a meta skill is fitness, for example.

Tristan de Montebello：元技能的一个例子就是健身。

If you were to start saying, "Okay, I'm going to transform my fitness," and you start lifting weights and you start going on runs, obviously your muscles are going to get bigger, you're going to get more in shape, and your cardiovascular system is going to improve.

But that's actually only a sliver of the impact it's going to have on your life because you're going to start feeling more energy, and you're going to start having these nice hormones, these endorphins flowing through your body and you're going to feel better about yourself.

And when you walk in front of the mirror, suddenly you're going to have a boost in confidence.

当你走到镜子前时，你的自信会突然增强。

So naturally, everything else in your life is going to start to improve as a result of you focusing on your fitness.

因此，自然地，由于您专注于健身，您生活中的其他一切都会开始改善。

And for speaking, it's the same thing.

Tristan de Montebello: This blew my mind when I went on my own speaking journey, is when I started making breakthroughs in speaking, other things started to feel different.

So as you get breakthroughs, how you feel at work feels different.

因此，当你取得突破时，你的工作感受就会有所不同。

How you feel in your group of friends feels different.

您在朋友圈中的感受会有所不同。

How you feel in a group of strangers, especially, how you feel and your family can even be impacted.

你在一群陌生人中的感受，尤其是你和你的家人的感受甚至会受到影响。

This seeps into everything else in your life.

But the thing is, because there's so much self-consciousness that goes with speaking, we often feel kind of constraints under the layers of overthinking and anxiety that come with speaking.

So it can be hard to realize that underneath these layers, you actually have this extraordinary superpower, because as humans we're evolved to speak, this is what we are.

So you don't need to teach a baby how to speak, it will learn by itself with no formal education.

所以你不需要教婴儿如何说话，他会自己学习，无需正规教育。

So what that means is, we all have this incredible hardware.

这意味着，我们都拥有令人难以置信的硬件。

Tristan de Montebello: The thing is, over the course of our life, because of all these little situations that happen, we start getting bugs in the software and we're not really upgrading our software.

The moment you get the bugs and things start working, not working, we start avoiding, and suddenly it's like we're not upgrading our software anymore.

So we're stuck on old, buggy software.

But the reality is, let's not forget that we have incredible software that were evolved for this.

但现实是，我们不要忘记，我们拥有为此而开发的令人难以置信的软件。

So all we need to do is some debugging and some upgrading of the software and suddenly your entire life can change.

因此，我们需要做的就是对软件进行一些调试和升级，突然间您的整个生活都会改变。

So that's really one I want to impart on anybody listening.

这确实是我想向所有听众传达的信息。

You have it in, you already have what it takes.

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

So kind of building on what you just talked about, some of this insight of, your life can improve and how you kind of always have to unlearn stuff.

One of my favorite maybe core insights and tenets of the way you approach teaching people to speak, is you talk about how if you don't enjoy speaking, you're doing it wrong.

And that really helped me because you kind of encourage, you kind of remind people, try to have fun as you're doing.

这确实对我很有帮助，因为你鼓励、提醒人们，试着在你所做的事情中享受乐趣。

Can you just talk about that insight and why that's important and how that helps people become better?

您能否谈谈这种见解以及为什么它很重要以及它如何帮助人们变得更好？

Tristan de Montebello: Well, I think that's very tied to what you were saying.

Tristan de Montebello：嗯，我认为这与你所说的非常相关。

I see enjoyment as a barometer, if I'm doing things right, I'm probably enjoying myself.

我将享受视为晴雨表，如果我做事正确，我可能会很享受。

If I'm doing things wrong, particularly with speaking, because again, this is something we're naturally evolved to do.

如果我做错了事情，特别是在说话方面，因为这也是我们自然进化而来的。

So if we're naturally evolved to do it, it's not something that we dislike doing.

因此，如果我们天生就能够做到这一点，那么我们就不会不喜欢这样做。

It has to be something that rewards us.

So as soon as things start not feeling enjoyable, it's a sign, hey, I'm probably doing this wrong, guy.

所以一旦事情开始让人感觉不愉快，这就是一个信号，嘿，我可能做错了，伙计。

There's something here that I'm doing that is making this unenjoyable that's probably not helping me.

我正在做的事情让这变得不愉快，这可能对我没有帮助。

Tristan de Montebello: And I think you mentioned that in those people who can hold an audience who are really good communicators in business, it looks like they feel very comfortable, it looks like they feel like themselves.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：我想你提到过，那些能够拥有真正优秀的商业沟通者的受众的人，看起来他们感觉非常舒服，看起来他们感觉就像自己一样。

And if you think about speaking, when you're talking with your kids, or with your partner, or with your best friend, your childhood friend, your parents, ever, we all have environments where we feel completely like ourselves.

And when we do, communication is extraordinarily enjoyable.

当我们这样做时，沟通就会变得异常愉快。

It's just a means to connect with other people, a means to share what we have on our mind and it's very, very empowering and it feels very good.

这只是与其他人联系的一种方式，一种分享我们想法的方式，它非常非常有力量，感觉非常好。

Tristan de Montebello: Then I take the same person with the same skill set and the same ability and I bring them in a business setting, and suddenly I don't feel like myself anymore.

And because of the pressure, I start trying to speak differently.

由于压力，我开始尝试用不同的方式说话。

So people start having, I'm going to try to think really hard of what I need to say and I want to control the words that are going to come out of my mouth before they come out of my mouth so I make sure I don't make a mistake.

And you basically loop in this thing that is so counter what communication is, which is just a natural subconscious scale.

你基本上循环了这个与沟通相反的东西，这只是一个自然的潜意识尺度。

So using speaking as a barometer of, hey, if this is not feeling good, I'm probably overthinking.

因此，用演讲作为晴雨表，嘿，如果这感觉不好，我可能想得太多了。

I probably need to relax and try to just feel a little bit more like myself.

我可能需要放松并尝试感觉更像我自己。

Tristan de Montebello: But this also applies to practice, where in your practice, because this is not an overnight thing, you can't just snap your fingers, read a book, and be a better speaker.

Tristan de Montebello：但这也适用于练习，在练习中，因为这不是一朝一夕的事情，你不能只是打个响指，读一本书，然后成为一个更好的演讲者。

Well, your practice has to be enjoyable as well because otherwise two weeks in, you're going to quit just like a shitty fitness journey or diet.

嗯，你的练习也必须是令人愉快的，否则两周后，你就会像糟糕的健身之旅或节食一样放弃。

Right?

正确的？

You have to find joy in it and it has to be structured in a way where it rewards you as well, so that you get more energy and you get more enjoyment while you do it.

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome, and we're going to show people how you do that.

Lenny Rachitsky：太棒了，我们将向人们展示您是如何做到这一点的。

You do these games, they're games that you play that help you actually learn these skills.

你做这些游戏，你玩的游戏可以帮助你真正学习这些技能。

So before that, and also I want to get into actual tactics that we can just give people to become better public speakers.

因此，在此之前，我还想谈谈我们可以帮助人们成为更好的公共演讲者的实际策略。

But right before we get there, are there any other core insights or principles or lessons that are fundamental to the way you found that it works to become a better public speaker, that kind of inform a lot of the stuff we're going to be talking about?

Tristan de Montebello: The day I understood that speaking was a subconscious flow-oriented process and not a conscious process, completely changed the way I approached it.

Tristan de Montebello：当我明白说话是一个潜意识的流程导向过程而不是一个有意识的过程的那一天，我完全改变了我的处理方式。

So instead of thinking tactics and frameworks and adding more to the outside of the things I need to think about, when I realized when I speak best, I'm actually not thinking about speaking.

It's the last thing I think about is the speaking part.

我最后想到的是口语部分。

I'm completely in tune with whatever it is I'm trying to convey to my audience or the person in front of me.

无论我想向观众或我面前的人传达什么，我都完全同意。

And the goal is to get into a flow state and stay in that flow state all the way through the finish line.

我们的目标是进入一种心流状态，并一直保持这种状态直到终点线。

That's what really, really changed my mindset about speaking, because then it changes all of the exercise, the exercises you want to do.

这确实改变了我对演讲的心态，因为它改变了所有的练习，你想做的练习。

It changes how you can think about speaking.

Tristan de Montebello: And one of the ways that changed how I practiced was, instead of focusing on the symptoms of speaking, I started to try and figure out, well, what are the root causes that create these symptoms, and can I address those?

Tristan de Montebello：改变我练习方式的方法之一是，我不再关注说话的症状，而是开始尝试找出造成这些症状的根本原因是什么，我可以解决这些问题吗？

So instead of counting my filler words, if that's something that's annoying to me, I'm going to go back and try to figure out, well, what's the root cause of that?

因此，如果这对我来说很烦人，我不会计算我的填充词，而是会回去尝试找出根本原因是什么？

Well, the root cause of having lots of filler words or racing in your speaking, is that you probably struggle to feel comfortable slowing down, relaxing, or even pausing when your mind is racing and you feel pressure.

嗯，说话中有大量填充词或急躁的根本原因是，当你的思绪急速运转并且感到压力时，你可能很难感到放慢、放松甚至暂停的舒适感。

Solve that, and not only do the filler words take care of themselves, but the racing takes care of itself and you suddenly have more mind space.

解决这个问题，不仅填充词会自行解决，而且比赛也会自行解决，你会突然拥有更多的思维空间。

Tristan de Montebello: And if you feel super constrained in your speaking, very monotonous, then maybe you feel boxed in and you're struggling to allow yourself to feel to be all of what you are under pressure because there's probably a lack of certainty.

Tristan de Montebello：如果你感觉自己的讲话非常受限，非常单调，那么也许你会觉得自己被困住了，你正在努力让自己感受到压力下的一切，因为可能缺乏确定性。

A lack of trust in, hey, if I let myself be more intense or if I let some of these emotions pop out, or if I take a time to gather my thoughts, is everything going to unravel, or is that going to work for me?

缺乏信任，嘿，如果我让自己变得更加强烈，或者如果我让其中一些情绪突然爆发，或者如果我花时间整理我的想法，一切都会崩溃，或者这对我有用吗？

And if you haven't proven that to yourself, then you're just going to go for safety and so you're going to be very monotonous and constrained, and that's creates monotony.

But if I can solve that, suddenly I have freedom.

但如果我能解决这个问题，我就会突然获得自由。

So thinking through this and understanding that the goal here is upgrading the software and it's really layering, taking all the bad habits away and putting in new habits that I can just stay in this flow state without getting pulled out, that really changes the game.

因此，仔细思考并理解这里的目标是升级软件，它确实是分层的，去掉所有坏习惯并养成新习惯，我可以保持这种流动状态而不会被退出，这确实改变了游戏规则。

Lenny Rachitsky: That is a really interesting insight, and I love that you actually demoed that in the way you answered this question, where you took time to get into that state and not just get, um...

Lenny Rachitsky：这是一个非常有趣的见解，我喜欢你在回答这个问题的方式中实际演示了这一点，你花了时间进入那种状态，而不仅仅是得到，嗯......

It's just like, pause.

就像，暂停。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah, that was a really beautiful example of that.

Lenny Rachitsky：是的，这是一个非常漂亮的例子。

Okay, let's get into a few tactics just to give people something they can-

好吧，让我们来看看一些策略，只是为了给人们一些他们能得到的东西——

Lenny Rachitsky: ...

莱尼·拉奇茨基：……

actually change about the way they speak this week.

本周他们说话的方式实际上发生了变化。

What are two or three things that you can recommend people tweak in the way that they do public speaking, in the way they speak in meetings and presentations, whatever?

您可以建议人们在公开演讲、会议和演示中的发言方式等方面进行哪些两三项调整？

Tristan de Montebello: I actually thought about this because once you think about speaking being much more about the root causes, like play the games that are going to change you at the root, don't focus on the symptoms, then you find yourself sharing much less purely tactical advice and frameworks because we're trying to get out of our brain into our subconscious.

Tristan de Montebello：我实际上想到了这一点，因为一旦你考虑更多地谈论根本原因，比如玩将从根本上改变你的游戏，而不是关注症状，那么你会发现自己分享的纯粹战术建议和框架要少得多，因为我们试图从我们的大脑进入我们的潜意识。

Tristan de Montebello: So when I thought about it, I thought of three things I wanted to share.

Tristan de Montebello：所以当我思考这个问题时，我想到了三件事我想分享。

One makes you sound better or look better, one makes you sound better, and one makes you feel better.

一种让你听起来更好或看起来更好，一种让你听起来更好，一种让你感觉更好。

So the first makes you look better.

Now this is super basic and very crunchy, but it's a bad habit that a lot of people have.

这是超级基本的而且非常脆，但这是很多人都有的坏习惯。

That when I am trying to gather my thoughts or think, people tend to look down.

当我试图集中思绪或思考时，人们往往会低下头。

And if you're looking down on Zoom, it's three times as bad because it looks like you're looking at your phone or looking at notes if you had any, but even when you're in person, it doesn't look very confident.

如果你看不起 Zoom，那就糟糕了三倍，因为它看起来就像你在看你的手机或在看笔记（如果有的话），但即使你是在现场，它看起来也不是很自信。

And so you're suddenly giving off of that vibe of, oh, this person feels a little bit uncertain here, and maybe it's going to look like you stopped speaking and you might get more interrupted.

所以你突然散发出一种感觉，哦，这个人在这里感觉有点不确定，也许看起来你停止说话了，你可能会被更多地打断。

Tristan de Montebello: If instead you switch that up and you start thinking up.

Tristan de Montebello：如果你改变一下，你就会开始思考。

I think up into the right, but you can think in any direction you want, but as long as you're looking up, you actually look thoughtful by default.

我往右想，但你可以往任何你想的方向想，但只要你向上看，你实际上看起来默认是深思熟虑的。

So suddenly you're looking thoughtful.

That means you look more confident because anybody who'd be willing to pause in their speaking is somebody who's confident.

这意味着你看起来更自信，因为任何愿意在讲话中停顿的人都是自信的人。

And as a result, you're much less likely to get interrupted.

因此，您被打扰的可能性就会大大降低。

So it's a small tweak but makes a real difference.

所以这是一个小小的调整，但会带来真正的改变。

Tristan de Montebello: The only thing is if you're not used to doing this, if this is not your habit, then it's going to feel a little bit awkward the first time you do it and you probably won't think about doing it.

Tristan de Montebello：唯一的问题是，如果你不习惯这样做，如果这不是你的习惯，那么你第一次这样做时会感觉有点尴尬，你可能不会考虑这样做。

So I recommend writing, think up, on a post-it and putting it on your computer so that it's there for you.

因此，我建议您在便利贴上写下、思考一下，然后将其放在您的计算机上，以便您可以随时使用。

And then once you've done it a few times, this will become the new normal and by default, you'll look more confident.

一旦你做了几次，这就会成为新的常态，默认情况下，你会看起来更加自信。

Lenny Rachitsky: I'm going to do this as we talk.

Lenny Rachitsky：我们谈话时我会这样做。

I have a poster right here.

Think up.,

想起来.,

Tristan de Montebello: Look more confident.

Now how to sound more confident.

This is a really important one, and this concept is called end strong.

这是一个非常重要的概念，这个概念被称为“终结强”。

And it's, we had to bring this up because most people tend to end weak.

我们不得不提出这个问题，因为大多数人最终都会变得软弱。

And why is that?

这是为什么呢？

They put freestyle rappers in an fMRI, and what they found out is freestyle rappers have to enter a deep flow state.

他们对自由式说唱歌手进行功能磁共振成像，结果发现自由式说唱歌手必须进入深度流动状态。

If you're freestyle rapping, you have a beat, you don't have any lyrics, and you have to get into the beat and invent the lyrics and the melody and everything on the fly.

如果你是即兴说唱，你有节拍，没有任何歌词，你必须进入节拍并即时创作歌词、旋律和一切。

So there's no choice but being completely present.

所以除了完全在场之外别无选择。

What happens is you can see their brain and it's lit up in a very specific place that shows that they're in flow, and when they get to the very end, the brain just blows up.

发生的事情是你可以看到他们的大脑，它在一个非常特定的地方亮起来，表明他们正在流动，当他们到达最后时，大脑就会爆炸。

Before they finish, they start getting pulled out of flow.

在他们完成之前，他们就开始脱离流程。

And this is the same feeling of you're running at school and you see the finish line and just a few yards before you start slowing down.

这和你在学校跑步时的感觉是一样的，你看到终点线，距离你开始放慢速度只有几码。

It's just, I don't know, we're built that way.

Tristan de Montebello: And in speaking, it's the same thing.

Tristan de Montebello：在口语中，这是同样的事情。

People tend to give a great answer and then either they kind of taper off at the end, which doesn't leave you with a good impression, or they'll actively say the doubts that are coming up in their mind of maybe they'll be giving a great answer and then suddenly they say, "I don't really know if that makes sense."

人们往往会给出一个很好的答案，然后要么在最后逐渐减弱，这不会给你留下好印象，要么他们会积极地说出他们脑海中出现的怀疑，也许他们会给出一个很好的答案，然后突然说，“我真的不知道这是否有意义。”

Lenny Rachitsky: I do that all the time.

That's very relatable.

这是非常相关的。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah, but what the thing is, what happens when you do that?

Tristan de Montebello：是的，但问题是，当你这样做时会发生什么？

When you do that, it's like you're forcing this lens on your audience, where now even if they had the best of experiences with your answer, now they're looking at everything you said through the lens of, oh, this person was kind of uncertain.

当你这样做时，就好像你把这个镜头强加给你的观众，即使他们对你的答案有最好的体验，现在他们也会通过镜头来看待你所说的一切，哦，这个人有点不确定。

So it's like you had a very smooth flight across the Atlantic and your landing was absolutely horrible.

就好像你飞越大西洋时非常顺利，但着陆时却非常糟糕。

You were bumpy when you were coming up, and then when you hit the landing, you bounced three times and you thought you were going to die.

你上来的时候很颠簸，然后当你落地的时候，你弹跳了三下，你以为你要死了。

You're not going to remember the smooth flight, you're going to remember the ending.

你不会记得顺利的飞行，你会记得结局。

So a simple tactic here is, anticipate that as you get to the end of anything you're saying, you're going to naturally start regaining consciousness and you're going to start being a little bit more self-aware, and some of those uncertainties are going to pop up.

因此，这里的一个简单策略是，预计当您说完所有内容时，您将自然地开始恢复意识，并且您将开始变得更加自我意识，其中一些不确定性将会突然出现。

Know that it's coming and make sure you land the plane.

知道它即将到来并确保飞机着陆。

Tristan de Montebello: So what that looks like is, either you just make your ending sound like an ending and then leave it at that, or you can prompt your brain.

Tristan de Montebello：所以看起来是这样的，要么你只是让你的结局听起来像一个结局，然后就这样，要么你可以提示你的大脑。

You can use summary prompts, this is incredibly powerful.

您可以使用摘要提示，这非常强大。

It just means you say the beginning of a sentence or the beginning of, yeah, the beginning of a sentence, and your brain's going to fill in the gap.

这只是意味着你说出一个句子的开头或者，是的，一个句子的开头，你的大脑就会填补这个空白。

It's going to.

会的。

You're prompting your brain and your brain will always deliver.

你在激励你的大脑，而你的大脑总会有所作为。

So you get to the end, you're like, okay, I got to wrap up now.

所以你到了最后，你会想，好吧，我现在必须结束了。

And so you'll say, "So to wrap up..." And your brain's going to fill in the gap.

所以你会说，“那么，结束吧……”你的大脑就会填补这个空白。

Or, "In summary, so my point here is, so what I want you to remember," and you just place those words and your brain's naturally going to do the work of closing it for you.

或者，“总之，我的观点是，我希望你记住什么”，你只需说出这些词，你的大脑就会自然地为你完成关闭它的工作。

But make sure you don't let go of the gas pedal at the very last moment, you need to land that plane.

但请确保在最后一刻不要松开油门踏板，你需要让飞机着陆。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

I could definitely get better at this, great tip.

我绝对可以在这方面做得更好，很棒的建议。

Lenny Rachitsky: I'm going to try to do that as we talk.

Lenny Rachitsky：我们谈话时我会尝试这样做。

Tristan de Montebello: I'll be paying attention to that.

Tristan de Montebello：我会关注这一点。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

The third one is staying in character.

三是保持本色。

And these go hand in hand.

这些都是齐头并进的。

And what's really powerful is when you start doing these, there's a beautiful feedback loop that happens that gives you a lot of confidence.

真正强大的是，当你开始这样做时，就会出现一个美妙的反馈循环，给你很大的信心。

So staying in character I said is the one that's going to make you feel more confident.

因此，保持我所说的性格会让你感到更加自信。

Tristan de Montebello: What's staying in character?

Tristan de Montebello：什么是保持性格的要素？

So it's related to end strong in some sense, in that people tend to self-sabotage a lot.

因此，从某种意义上说，这与强烈的终结有关，因为人们倾向于自我破坏。

I'm speaking, and obviously as I'm speaking, all of my senses are really, really heightened.

我正在说话，显然，当我说话时，我所有的感官都非常非常强烈。

So I'm aware of everything, if a word comes out a little bit weird or if it's not the word that I was expecting to hear come out of my mouth, I'm going to be very aware of that because I was expecting something and something different happens.

所以我知道一切，如果一个词说出来有点奇怪，或者如果它不是我期望从我嘴里听到的词，我会非常清楚这一点，因为我期待着一些事情，但会发生一些不同的事情。

But that happens all the time when speaking.

但说话时这种情况时常发生。

I'm starting to not make as much sense or I feel like I'm rambling, going a little bit too long.

我开始不太明白，或者我觉得自己在胡言乱语，说得有点太长了。

All of these create insane noise in the back of my mind, the insecurities.

所有这些都在我的脑海中制造出疯狂的噪音和不安全感。

And you have a choice there, because I can tell you right now, nobody can tell.

你有一个选择，因为我现在可以告诉你，没有人能告诉你。

People cannot see what you feel, even though it feels that way when you feel really, really strongly, but people can't see it.

人们看不到你的感受，即使当你感觉非常非常强烈时也会有这种感觉，但人们看不到它。

You're just looking like a normal speaker, competent and confident.

你看起来就像一个普通的演讲者，有能力且自信。

But internally, it feels like everybody can see.

但在内部，感觉每个人都能看到。

Tristan de Montebello: So you're feeling all this insecurity and it feels like there's an elephant in the room.

Tristan de Montebello：所以你会感到不安全感，感觉就像房间里有一头大象。

And so what most people do is they start leaking and they break character.

所以大多数人所做的就是开始泄漏并破坏性格。

And they'll say, "Oh, man, I'm not making sense right now," or they'll laugh nervously after saying a word that came out weird, which is kind of saying like, "Oh, I also noticed that this word came out weird and it's okay." Right?

他们会说，“哦，伙计，我现在没讲清楚，”或者他们会在说出一个听起来很奇怪的词后紧张地笑，这有点像在说，“哦，我也注意到这个词听起来很奇怪，但没关系。”正确的？

Or they'll keep letting all of the insecurities and doubts come out when people didn't see it in the first place.

或者，当人们一开始没有看到的时候，他们就会继续让所有的不安全感和怀疑显露出来。

So again, it's like I'm forcing these filters onto my audience and now they can only see me through that light.

再说一遍，就像我将这些滤镜强加给我的观众，现在他们只能通过那个光看到我。

Tristan de Montebello: And so one analogy I love for this is, again, a flying analogy.

Tristan de Montebello：所以我喜欢的一个类比是飞行类比。

You're on the plane, everything's smooth, you're having a great time watching your movie, and suddenly you're interrupted by the pilot who picks up the intercom and says, "Oh, ladies and gentlemen, so I just had a red light start blinking here in the cockpit, and I'm not sure what this is.

你在飞机上，一切都很顺利，你正在享受电影的乐趣，突然间，你被飞行员打断了，他拿起对讲机说道：“哦，女士们先生们，刚才驾驶舱里有一个红灯开始闪烁，我不确定这是什么。

It could be really bad, honestly, but I don't know.

老实说，这可能真的很糟糕，但我不知道。

So don't worry, please, I'll get back to you soon." First thing that's going to happen if you experience that is you're going to think, I wasn't worrying in the first place.

所以请不要担心，我会尽快回复您。”如果你经历过这种情况，首先会发生的事情是你会想，我一开始并不担心。

But then you start thinking, wait, something probably is going wrong.

但随后你开始思考，等等，可能出了什么问题。

And now the smallest noise, the tiny little bit of turbulence, a creak on the right, you're going to start thinking, oh no, we're going to die, every time.

现在，哪怕是最小的噪音，一点点的湍流，右边的嘎吱声，你都会开始想，哦不，我们每次都会死。

Tristan de Montebello: So you're going to make any little mistake, any little imperfection, you're going to turn that into something big.

Tristan de Montebello：所以你会犯任何小错误，任何小缺陷，你都会把它变成大事。

That's what happens when you speak.

这就是你说话时发生的情况。

If you start leaking and letting the insecurities come out, people are going to start thinking, this person doesn't really know what they're talking about.

如果你开始泄密并让不安全感显露出来，人们就会开始思考，这个人并不真正知道他们在说什么。

It's like a leader who isn't clear in their direction.

这就像一个领导者不明确自己的方向。

Suddenly I'm thinking, wait, I think I have to second guess everything here because I'm not sure about this guy or this person.

突然我在想，等等，我想我必须重新猜测这里的一切，因为我不确定这个人或这个人。

Tristan de Montebello: And the good news is, the solution is very, very simple.

Tristan de Montebello：好消息是，解决方案非常非常简单。

The solution is that is just, don't share your insecurities.

解决办法就是，不要分享你的不安全感。

Put your best foot forward and stay in it the whole time.

全力以赴，并始终坚持下去。

Stay in character from beginning all the way through past the ending, because you go all the way through your speech, then you got to end strong, which is a form of staying in character, and then let it be.

从头到尾都保持性格，因为你从头到尾都在演讲，然后你必须以强有力的方式结束，这是保持性格的一种形式，然后顺其自然。

And that's so important, just let it be and you're going to notice something incredible.

这非常重要，只要顺其自然，你就会发现一些令人难以置信的事情。

If you're the type of person who would break character a lot, start staying in character, and the cue use for myself is, stay in it.

如果你是那种经常打破性格的人，那就开始保持性格，对我自己来说，就是保持性格。

And the worse it gets, the more I'll say, just stay in it.

情况越糟糕，我就越会说，坚持下去。

And what happens is, you stay in it.

而发生的事情是，你留在其中。

Tristan de Montebello: And you expect everybody at the end to say, "Oh my God, you looked so uncomfortable, what was happening?" But people can't see that, that you look confident.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：你希望最后每个人都会说，“天哪，你看起来很不舒服，发生了什么事？”但人们看不到这一点，你看起来很自信。

So they're just going to give you the reaction that a confident person would get, and you're going to notice, oh wow, I am coming off as confident, and that's going to make you feel more confident.

所以他们只会给你一个自信的人会得到的反应，你会注意到，哦哇，我表现得很自信，这会让你感觉更自信。

And so it's a very reinforcing cycle.

所以这是一个非常强化的循环。

If you start staying in character and ending strong, naturally, you're going to be reinforced by this behavior and you're going to realize, oh, I didn't need to break character.

如果你开始保持性格并以坚强的方式结束，自然地，你会因为这种行为而得到强化，并且你会意识到，哦，我不需要打破性格。

I didn't need to hedge every time I spoke, and that's going to give you much more confident, and you're going to start realizing, people just look confident by default.

我不需要每次讲话时都对冲，这会让你更加自信，你会开始意识到，人们只是默认地看起来很自信。

This is a crazy thing.

这是一件疯狂的事情。

I want everybody to walk around the world and look at people and think, most of the people I'm looking at are actually nervous right now.

我希望每个人都走遍世界，看看人们，然后想，我看到的大多数人现在实际上都很紧张。

You're going to look at them and you're like, I can't tell.

你会看着它们，然后你会想，我不知道。

Most people speaking up in meetings are feeling a level of nervousness, but you can't tell unless it's through the roof.

大多数在会议上发言的人都会感到一定程度的紧张，但除非是在屋顶上，否则你无法辨别。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love this, and it's something I'm extremely guilty of.

Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这个，对此我感到非常内疚。

And I think the reason I do this and the reason I think a lot of people leak, which I love that term of just I don't leak, that you know, feel something's not going right.

我认为我这样做的原因以及我认为很多人泄密的原因，我喜欢“我不泄密”这个词，你知道，感觉有些事情不对劲。

The reason I do it is I feel like me being upfront, I know this isn't great-

我这样做的原因是我觉得自己很坦率，我知道这不太好-

Lenny Rachitsky: ...

莱尼·拉奇茨基：……

makes it okay, but in reality, that's hurting you because it's like when I watch standup comedy.

没关系，但实际上，这会伤害你，因为就像我看单口喜剧一样。

When the comedian's like, "Oh, sorry, that bombed," if he didn't say that or she didn't say that, I'd just forget about it, and we'd move on to the next thing.

当喜剧演员说，“哦，对不起，那次失败了”，如果他不这么说或者她不这么说，我就会忘记它，然后我们就会继续下一件事。

And it brings all this attention to, oh, I see, okay, it's not going great.

它引起了所有这些关注，哦，我明白了，好吧，事情进展得不太好。

Otherwise, you're just like, all right, whatever, I didn't like that joke.

否则，你就会说，好吧，无论如何，我不喜欢那个笑话。

And so, yeah, I guess any thoughts on just that, why people do this?

所以，是的，我想对此有什么想法，为什么人们这样做？

Tristan de Montebello: Well, I think that's exactly that.

Tristan de Montebello：嗯，我认为正是如此。

It's because you're convinced that everybody can tell.

这是因为你确信每个人都能看出来。

And so two things will happen.

所以会发生两件事。

Either they could tell because it was a big thing and everybody could tell, but you shining light on it is literally that.

要么他们可以知道，因为这是一件大事，每个人都可以知道，但你照耀它确实是这样。

It's like, hey, everybody, you're driving a train, everybody's in the train, you're the driver as the speaker, everybody's going with you.

就像，嘿，大家，你在开火车，每个人都在火车上，你是司机，也是演讲者，每个人都和你一起去。

So if there's a crash on the side of the road, you can keep going and they'll not be looking at the crash a second later and they'll be looking at the next landscape, or you can stop the train and tell everybody, "Hey, let's look at this crash here real quick.

因此，如果路边发生车祸，你可以继续前进，他们不会在一秒钟后看到车祸，而是会看到下一个风景，或者你可以停下火车并告诉每个人，“嘿，让我们快速看看这里的车祸。

I'm so sorry about it." When you keep going, people will forget it in a second and they're not going to pay attention to you.

我对此感到非常抱歉。”当你继续前进时，人们很快就会忘记它，并且不会注意到你。

And with the peak end rule, what we we're seeing, people remember the end of experiences more than they remember the beginning of experiences.

根据我们所看到的高峰结束规则，人们对经历的结束的记忆比对经历的开始的记忆要多。

So you're going to be left with that feeling at the end.

所以最后你会留下那种感觉。

Tristan de Montebello: The other piece is, because most people won't notice it in the first place, they'll be in their own minds.

Tristan de Montebello：另一件事是，因为大多数人一开始不会注意到它，他们会在自己的想法中。

So when you share this, you're popping their bubble.

所以当你分享这个的时候，你就戳破了他们的泡沫。

And so I see people speaking all the time where I'm super in tune with the feeling I'm getting when they're speaking.

所以我总是看到人们说话，而我对他们说话时的感觉非常合拍。

I'm listening to the energy, I'm listening to everything that's happening, so I can try to understand, what state are they in right now?

我正在倾听能量，我正在倾听正在发生的一切，所以我可以尝试理解，他们现在处于什么状态？

So when I get woken up from that state of somebody saying, "Oh man, can I go again right now?

所以当我从有人说“哦，伙计，我现在可以再去一次吗？”的状态中醒来时。

That really sucked." It's even more visible for me.

那真的很糟糕。”对我来说更明显。

Tristan de Montebello: And I'll often have to say, "Hey, man, I was so into what you were saying," and I'll poll the audience, "is anyone surprised?" And everybody every time is like, "No, I thought that you were doing great.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：我经常不得不说，“嘿，伙计，我对你说的话很感兴趣，”我会对观众进行民意调查，“有人感到惊讶吗？”每个人每次都会说，“不，我认为你做得很好。

I was completely with you." So that's the case most of the time, but because we're convinced that people can tell, we want to break that fourth wall or because something happened and we know people can tell, we want to acknowledge it so it doesn't feel like I'm the only one in the room who can't tell that something went wrong here.

我完全和你在一起。”大多数时候都是这种情况，但因为我们相信人们可以分辨出来，我们想要打破第四堵墙，或者因为发生了一些事情并且我们知道人们可以分辨出来，我们想要承认这一点，这样就不会感觉我是房间里唯一一个无法分辨出这里出了问题的人。

But this habit of saying, "No, I'm going to be confident, I'm leading, I'm going to keep us going in a certain direction," is extremely powerful and very self-reinforcing.

但这种说“不，我要自信，我要领先，我要让我们朝着某个方向前进”的习惯是非常强大的，而且非常自我强化。

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay, so let's actually show people what this looks like by actually doing some live games.

Lenny Rachitsky：好的，让我们通过一些现场游戏来向人们展示这是什么样子。

I know one of your principles for Ultraspeaking is you can't learn to speak by not speaking.

我知道你的超语言原则之一是你不能通过不说话来学会说话。

You need to practice speaking to get better at speaking, and these games are a way to actually do that in a really fun way.

您需要练习口语才能提高口语水平，而这些游戏是一种以非常有趣的方式实际做到这一点的方法。

So maybe first of all, just why games?

所以也许首先，为什么是游戏？

When I did this course, I was just like, huh, because it's a bunch of games.

当我完成这门课程时，我就想，呵呵，因为这是一堆游戏。

I thought this was a public speaking course.

我以为这是一门公开演讲课程。

So maybe talk about just why you approach it through games, everything you do is a game in this course.

所以也许可以谈谈为什么你通过游戏来实现它，在这门课程中你所做的一切都是游戏。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

Well, the first piece of the puzzle is what you were saying, that you can't get better at speaking without speaking.

嗯，第一块拼图就是你所说的，如果不说话，你就无法变得更好。

And it's, intuitively you could think, everybody knows that if you want to become a great cook, you can't just read 100-

直觉上你可能会想，每个人都知道，如果你想成为一名出色的厨师，你不能仅仅阅读 100-

Tristan de Montebello: Everybody knows that if you want to become a great cook, you can't just read a hundred cookbooks.

Tristan de Montebello：每个人都知道，如果你想成为一名出色的厨师，你不能仅仅阅读一百本烹饪书。

You actually have to spend most of your time in the kitchen refining your intuition, testing things, experimenting, learning new recipes, and building your timing and everything that goes with it.

事实上，你必须把大部分时间花在厨房里，完善你的直觉、测试事物、实验、学习新食谱，并建立你的时间安排和与之相关的一切。

But in speaking, we tend to do the opposite, probably because it's a little bit scary and because there aren't that many options out there to practice the speaking itself.

但在口语中，我们倾向于做相反的事情，可能是因为这有点可怕，而且没有太多的选择来练习口语本身。

There aren't that many environments where you can do it right now.

目前可以执行此操作的环境并不多。

So we're kind of left with nothing, so, "Okay, I'll just go read an article or watch a YouTube short and hope that's going to make a difference."

所以我们一无所有，所以，“好吧，我就去读一篇文章或看一段 YouTube 短片，希望这会有所作为。”

Tristan de Montebello: But maybe the bad news is, you have to do it.

Tristan de Montebello：但也许坏消息是，你必须这样做。

You have to ask yourself, "Am I going to be serious about taking on speaking and making a difference here?" And if you are, then you're going to have to do the thing.

你必须问自己：“我会认真地发表演讲并在这里做出改变吗？”如果你是，那么你就必须做这件事。

You have to practice speaking.

你必须练习口语。

But the good news is, it's only the outside that's scary.

但好消息是，可怕的只是外表。

As soon as you get started, you're going to get rewarded.

一旦你开始，你就会得到回报。

And then, the better you get at it, the more enjoyable it becomes.

然后，你做得越好，它就会变得越有趣。

Tristan de Montebello: So why games then?

Tristan de Montebello：那为什么还要玩游戏呢？

Well, games number one, are fun to play.

嗯，第一，游戏玩起来很有趣。

And as I was saying earlier, if your practice is not fun, you're going to stop.

正如我之前所说，如果你的练习不有趣，你就会停止。

So you need intrinsic reward with what you're doing.

所以你需要对你正在做的事情给予内在的奖励。

But what all of the Ultraspeaking games have in common is that it's short, deliberate practice, short reps followed by feedback, followed by another rep.

但所有 Ultraspeaking 游戏的共同点是，它都是简短的、刻意的练习，简短的重复，然后是反馈，然后是另一次重复。

So that was more important than the idea that it was a game at first.

所以这比一开始认为这是一款游戏更重要。

Tristan de Montebello: When we started coaching with Michael Gendler, my co-founder, it was just him and me in my backyard with somebody in front of us testing things out.

Tristan de Montebello：当我们开始与我的联合创始人迈克尔·詹德勒（Michael Gendler）一起执教时，只有他和我在我的后院，有人在我们前面测试东西。

And we would say, we would give him a speech title just to get a baseline.

我们会说，我们会给他一个演讲标题只是为了获得基线。

"Okay, what's the most incredible invention in the world?" And we'd watch this person go into their mind and start freaking out.

“好吧，世界上最不可思议的发明是什么？”我们会看着这个人进入他们的思想并开始惊慌失措。

And they'd think, " The iPhone," and then, "I don't know the iPhone.

他们会想，“iPhone”，然后，“我不知道 iPhone。

That's pretty recent.

那是最近的事。

So maybe it's fire.

所以也许是火。

Is it fire though?

还火吗？

Was there a bigger maybe communication?

是否有更大的交流？

I don't know.

我不知道。

Wait.

等等。

Maybe we've evolved for communication."

也许我们是为了沟通而进化的。”

Tristan de Montebello: And the longer they spent thinking, the worse their answer tended to be, and the more their confidence tended to go down as they were speaking.

Tristan de Montebello：他们思考的时间越长，他们的答案往往越糟糕，他们说话时的信心也就越低。

So then we said, "Well, we've got to get this person speaking right away." So we'd say, "I'm going to ask you another question, but just start speaking." And so, I'd ask them another question and they couldn't start speaking right away.

然后我们说：“好吧，我们必须让这个人立即发言。”所以我们会说，“我要问你另一个问题，但请开始说话。”因此，我会问他们另一个问题，但他们无法立即开始说话。

Tristan de Montebello: So we just tried to compress it more and more and more to turn it into something where then it was like, "I'm just going to say a word and you have to say something about it, so horses." "Horseback riding is fun because you can go places." "Cats." "Cats are crazy because if they were bigger, they would eat you." And I just, almost like word association.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：所以我们只是试图越来越多地压缩它，把它变成这样的东西，“我只想说一句话，你必须说点什么，所以马。” “骑马很有趣，因为你可以去很多地方。” “猫。” “猫很疯狂，因为如果它们更大，它们就会吃掉你。”我只是，几乎喜欢单词联想。

Let's get words out.

让我们把话说出来吧。

Tristan de Montebello: Then we started developing different games for everything.

Tristan de Montebello：然后我们开始针对各种情况开发不同的游戏。

Every root cause we were seeing, every symptom we were seeing, we'd figure out the root cause and we'd create some sort of a way to get the person into it as quickly as possible.

我们看到的每一个根本原因，我们看到的每一个症状，我们都会找出根本原因，并创建某种方法来让人们尽快陷入困境。

And it's just one day, six months in that we realized, "Hey, did we just create a game?

仅仅六个月的一天，我们就意识到，“嘿，我们刚刚创造了一款游戏吗？

This feels like a board game." And then we created, I have this, we created Speak Before You Think, the game for people who think too much, and this is a bunch of cards with all of our games.

这感觉就像一个棋盘游戏。”然后我们创造了，我有这个，我们创造了Speak Before You Think，这是一款为那些想得太多的人设计的游戏，这是我们所有游戏中的一堆卡片。

And then, Covid hit and we turned it into online games.

然后，新冠病毒来袭，我们把它变成了在线游戏。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

The magic of games is short reps, immediate feedback, practice feedback, practice feedback.

游戏的魔力在于简短的重复、即时反馈、练习反馈、练习反馈。

And it's enjoyable, you get rewarded, you get to adjust as you go.

这是令人愉快的，你会得到奖励，你可以随时调整。

And what's changing is your internal feeling as you're going.

改变的是你前进时的内心感受。

So you're learning lessons, but you're internalizing.

所以你正在吸取教训，但你正在内化。

All of the practice is happening through speaking.

所有的练习都是通过说话进行的。

Lenny Rachitsky: To reinforce what you just shared, I haven't shared this with you, but after I took the course, the mini course, I went to see my family in L.A.

Lenny Rachitsky：为了强调你刚才分享的内容，我还没有与你分享这一点，但是在我参加了迷你课程之后，我去了洛杉矶看望我的家人。

We visited for a few days, and I was talking about this course and just how fun it was and interesting and how much I learned from it.

我们参观了几天，我正在谈论这门课程，以及它是多么有趣，以及我从中学到了多少东西。

And I pulled up the games because I have access to the things online.

我退出了游戏，因为我可以在线访问这些内容。

I was just like, "Hey, you guys want to try this?" and we started playing some of these games that we're about to get into.

我当时就想，“嘿，你们想试试这个吗？”我们开始玩一些即将进入的游戏。

And it was just, we spent like an hour just doing this and everyone loved it.

只是，我们花了大约一个小时来做这件事，每个人都喜欢它。

Lenny Rachitsky: Everyone just felt so much better about their public speaking.

Lenny Rachitsky：每个人都对自己的公开演讲感觉好多了。

Afterwards, my mom was like, "Hey, how do I do that on my own later?"

后来，我妈妈说：“嘿，我自己以后该怎么做呢？”

Tristan de Montebello: My sister's like, "I want to start doing open mic nights because that was really fun just to talk."

Tristan de Montebello：我姐姐说，“我想开始举办开放麦克风之夜，因为光是说话就真的很有趣。”

Tristan de Montebello: So were you actually coaching them?

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：那么你真的在指导他们吗？

How were you walking them through the different games?

你是如何引导他们完成不同的游戏的？

Lenny Rachitsky: We just pulled them up and played them.

Lenny Rachitsky：我们只是把它们拉起来并播放它们。

And then, I shared some of the tips that I learned in the class that we took, just like, "Try it this way" or "Try not to focus on being correct.

然后，我分享了我在课堂上学到的一些技巧，就像“尝试这样”或“尽量不要专注于正确性”。

Just focus on confidence and not leaking that you're not doing great." All these things we're going to talk about.

只要专注于自信，不要泄露你做得不好。”所有这些事情我们都要讨论。

Yeah.

是的。

So it was a lot of fun.

所以这很有趣。

So let's get into some of these games.

让我们来看看其中一些游戏。

So we're going to try two or three.

所以我们要尝试两三个。

Which one do you want to start with?

您想从哪一个开始？

Lenny Rachitsky: Sweet.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太好了。

I love Conductor.

我爱指挥。

That one was really insightful to me.

那对我来说真的很有洞察力。

Tristan de Montebello: Okay, so I've got Conductor.

Tristan de Montebello：好的，我有指挥。

The way this game works is that when I click "start training," I'm going to have a random title that's going to appear.

这个游戏的工作原理是，当我单击“开始训练”时，我将出现一个随机标题。

And for those of you who are just listening and not watching this, Lenny will say the title out loud so you can hear.

对于那些只是听而不看的人，莱尼会大声说出标题，以便您能听到。

And then, what you won't see or what you'll see if you're watching is in front of me, all I'm going to see are a series of random numbers.

然后，你看不到的或者你在看的时候会看到的就在我面前，我看到的只是一系列随机数字。

It's going to start with five, and five is just my natural rate of speaking like I'm speaking right now.

将从五开始，五只是我的自然说话速度，就像我现在说话一样。

But then, I might see a number from one to 10, and each one of these numbers represents an intensity or a state that I have to tap into.

但是，我可能会看到从 1 到 10 的数字，每个数字都代表我必须进入的强度或状态。

So if I see a seven, I automatically have to raise my voice and get into that kind of an energy.

因此，如果我看到七，我会自动提高声音并进入那种能量。

And if I see a 10, you could only imagine what that is.

如果我看到 10，你只能想象那是什么。

But it's also true for the lower ones.

但对于较低的人来说也是如此。

If suddenly I see a three, I have to find a way to calm my energy and match the three and go all the way down to one.

如果我突然看到一个三，我必须找到一种方法来平静我的能量，将三个匹配起来，一直到一个。

Tristan de Montebello: And then, there might be a slide that says "breathe," which is just an indication to pause.

Tristan de Montebello：然后，可能会有一张幻灯片写着“呼吸”，这只是暂停的指示。

And when I see that slide "breathe," if I just go silent, that's because I'm in front of the breathe slide and I'm not allowed to speak.

当我看到那张幻灯片“呼吸”时，如果我只是保持沉默，那是因为我在呼吸幻灯片前面并且不被允许说话。

And in that moment, my goal is just to relax myself and calm myself and then see what happens where I'm at when that slide moves on to the next one.

在那一刻，我的目标只是放松自己，让自己平静下来，然后看看当幻灯片转到下一张幻灯片时我所处的位置会发生什么。

And now we're going to do this.

现在我们要这样做。

This is going to be 70 seconds, so it's going to be super quick.

这将需要 70 秒，所以速度会非常快。

Ready?

准备好？

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。

So I'll read the title as soon as it pops up.

所以我会在标题出现时立即阅读。

Tristan de Montebello: When I grow up, I want to have taken on all of my weaknesses or all of the emotional things that are holding me back.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：当我长大后，我想承担起所有的弱点或所有阻碍我的情感因素。

Because kind of annoying for me that I'm 40 years old and there's still things that are holding me back that man, I've had these when I was a kid.

因为让我有点恼火的是，我已经 40 岁了，但仍然有一些事情阻碍着我，我小时候就遇到过这些。

I was like this when I was 10.

我10岁时就是这样的。

And it drives me crazy, because aren't I supposed to be an adult?

这让我发疯，因为我不应该是一个成年人吗？

Aren't I supposed to be mature and have my life together?

难道我不应该成熟一点，过自己的生活吗？

I have two kids.

我有两个孩子。

I have this incredible responsibility.

我肩负着难以置信的责任。

And I have to teach them, I have to show them the way.

我必须教导他们，我必须为他们指明道路。

So I've decided I'm going to hire a coach, and I talked to him just a couple of days ago, so this is perfect timing because I want to unwrap, unravel, and untwine every single one of these emotional blockers so that when I grow up, I'm completely free.

所以我决定聘请一位教练，几天前我和他谈过，所以这是完美的时机，因为我想解开、解开和解开这些情绪障碍中的每一个，这样当我长大后，我就完全自由了。

Lenny Rachitsky: That was so fun to watch.

Lenny Rachitsky：观看起来非常有趣。

I'm seeing the numbers.

我看到了数字。

If you're on YouTube, you can see what's going on there.

如果您在 YouTube 上，您可以看到那里发生了什么。

If you're not, basically there's different numbers that give Tristan the different energies to be at, and that was masterful.

如果你不是，基本上有不同的数字给特里斯坦不同的能量，这是高超的。

Tristan de Montebello: I think we saw, what did we see?

Tristan de Montebello：我想我们看到了，我们看到了什么？

We saw a six.

我们看到了六。

It went up first, six, seven, then it went down to three.

首先上升，六、七，然后下降到三。

Then we saw, I think a two, a one, then a breathe, and then it went back to a five.

然后我们看到，我认为是二，一，然后呼吸，然后又回到了五。

How about you give it a go and then we chat.

你试一下怎么样，然后我们聊聊。

Lenny Rachitsky: Let's do it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：让我们开始吧。

What do you think?

你怎么认为？

Tristan de Montebello: Ladies and gentlemen, let's see this.

Tristan de Montebello：女士们先生们，让我们看看这个。

Here we go.

开始了。

The title is The Greatest Puzzle.

标题是《最伟大的谜题》。

Lenny Rachitsky: The greatest puzzle that I think that I've had in my life, and I think just for most people, is trying to figure out what to do with their life.

莱尼·拉奇茨基（Lenny Rachitsky）：我认为我一生中遇到的最大的难题，而且我认为对于大多数人来说，就是试图弄清楚如何度过他们的生活。

And I just had to spend so much time thinking...

我不得不花很多时间思考......

Actually, no, let me change.

其实，不，让我改变。

I'm changing direction.

我要改变方向了

I actually have known from very early on what I wanted to do with my life.

事实上，我很早就知道我一生想要做什么。

I've actually found it to be not much of a puzzle.

我实际上发现这并不是什么难题。

I knew from pretty early that I wanted to be a software engineer.

我很早就知道我想成为一名软件工程师。

And interestingly, I became a software.

有趣的是，我变成了一个软件。

And as I think about the puzzle that created around my life, I ended up...

当我思考我的生活中出现的难题时，我最终......

So my life actually started to look like a puzzle instead of what I'd always thought I'd be.

所以我的生活实际上开始看起来像一个谜题，而不是我一直以为的那样。

So I ended up having a bunch of different careers.

所以我最终从事了很多不同的职业。

And I look back at my life and it started with one piece, and each piece led to all these other careers.

我回顾我的生活，它从一件作品开始，每件作品都导致了所有其他职业。

Nailed it.

搞定了。

Tristan de Montebello: It's funny.

特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗：这很有趣。

At the end you were like, you didn't even see there was a six that came up and then when you looked up, it had already gone away.

最后你就像，你甚至没有看到有一个六出现，然后当你抬头时，它已经消失了。

That's a good warm-up.

这是一个很好的热身。

Tristan de Montebello: It's funny, because what it looked like to me is that, well, you just didn't let yourself play the game.

Tristan de Montebello：这很有趣，因为在我看来，你只是不让自己玩游戏。

You wanted to...

你想要...

You were more focused on, "I want to make sure this works well, this looks good, or I don't make a fool of myself" than "Let me just play the game." So switch your mindset from that.

你更关注的是“我想确保它运行良好，看起来不错，或者我不会出丑”，而不是“让我玩游戏”。所以改变你的心态。

Back in the Creator Cohort, you didn't really care, because if you failed, it didn't matter.

回到创造者队列，你并不真正关心，因为如果你失败了，那也没关系。

So you just played the game.

所以你刚刚玩了游戏。

And this is the same idea.

这也是同样的想法。

Just don't try.

只是不要尝试。

Just let yourself play the game.

就让你自己玩游戏吧。

Tristan de Montebello: The game will do good.

Tristan de Montebello：这场比赛会做得很好。

But that was actually really interesting.

但这实际上非常有趣。

I feel kind of similar, which is cool, except I didn't know where it was going.

我感觉有点相似，这很酷，只是我不知道它会去哪里。

But that feeling of all of these puzzle pieces, and suddenly when I hit Ultraspeaking, it's like, "Oh wow, every single...

但是所有这些拼图的感觉，突然当我点击 Ultraspeaking 时，就像，“哦，哇，每一个......

There's no more.

没有了。

There are no more gaps." That's really cool.

不再有间隙。”这真的很酷。

Okay.

好的。

Tristan de Montebello: Here we go.

特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗：我们开始吧。

"Integrating new cultures."

“融合新文化。”

Lenny Rachitsky: It's interesting having a kid.

Lenny Rachitsky：有一个孩子很有趣。

So we just had a kid about a year ago, he is a year and a half.

大约一年前我们刚刚有了一个孩子，他一岁半了。

And there's an interesting new experience where there's my family and their culture, there's my wife and her culture.

这是一种有趣的新体验，其中有我的家人和他们的文化，有我的妻子和她的文化。

And it was never a big deal for us, these different backgrounds that we have because we could do our own thing, we have our families, they're doing their thing.

对于我们来说，这从来都不是一件大事，我们拥有这些不同的背景，因为我们可以做自己的事情，我们有我们的家庭，他们正在做他们的事情。

But now that we have a kid, I have to really think about this.

但现在我们有了孩子，我必须认真考虑这个问题。

I have to constantly wonder, "Is he getting both experiences?

我不得不不断地想，“他是否同时获得了这两种经历？

Is he being pushed in one direction or another?

他是被推向一个方向还是另一个方向？

Is he going to get the full benefits of both of these cultures?" And I find if I don't actually think about it too deeply and just let him have fun and hang out with our different family members, he gets everything that I want him to get; that he experiences my wife's family's culture, my family's culture, and then the combination of my wife and I's new kind of culture and family that we're building.

他能充分享受这两种文化的好处吗？”我发现，如果我实际上没有想得太深，只是让他玩得开心，和我们不同的家庭成员一起出去玩，他就会得到我想让他得到的一切；他体验了我妻子的家庭文化，我的家庭文化，然后是我和妻子的新文化和我们正在建立的家庭的结合。

And so, I'm really excited about the future for us all.

因此，我对我们所有人的未来感到非常兴奋。

Lenny Rachitsky: I'm practicing not leaking.

Lenny Rachitsky：我正在练习不泄密。

All I think about is how much better it could have been, but now I'm leaking as I say that.

我所想的只是它本来可以好得多，但现在我这么说就泄了气。

See?

看？

Tristan de Montebello: So the point of all of these games is to create turbulence.

Tristan de Montebello：所以所有这些游戏的目的都是创造动荡。

This is going to be the theme of this podcast.

这将是本播客的主题。

I'm going to share only flight analogies.

我将只分享飞行的类比。

But if you think about a pilot, a flight simulator, you can think about these games as the flight simulator.

但如果你想到飞行员、飞行模拟器，你可以将这些游戏视为飞行模拟器。

You don't put a pilot in a flight simulator and waste those precious hours having them just cruise at 30,000 feet in clear skies.

您不会将飞行员置于飞行模拟器中，然后浪费宝贵的时间让他们在晴朗的天空中在 30,000 英尺高空巡航。

You're going to say, "Okay, you're going and now hey, you've lost your captain and you have to do something" or "Hey, your motor just broke" or "You're going into crazy turbulence."

你会说，“好吧，你要走了，现在嘿，你失去了你的船长，你必须做点什么”或者“嘿，你的发动机坏了”或者“你将陷入疯狂的湍流”。

Tristan de Montebello: So the gain here is always, every one of these games have in common that we're creating turbulence for you.

Tristan de Montebello：所以这里的收获始终是，每一款游戏都有一个共同点，那就是我们正在为你创造动荡。

So it's on purpose that like, "Ooh, that's interesting how I tend to want to leak, to want to break character.

所以这是故意的，“哦，这很有趣，我倾向于泄密，想要破坏性格。

Wow.

哇。

It's interesting how at the end, the ending strong is not just an automatic habit that I've built for myself." So what we want with the turbulence is that it highlights areas that we want to work on.

有趣的是，最终，强大的结局不仅仅是我为自己养成的自动习惯。”因此，我们希望通过动荡来突出我们想要努力的领域。

And you can go again and see immediately because you have that same pressure every time.

你可以再次去并立即看到，因为你每次都有同样的压力。

There's no way you can prepare for Conductor.

你无法为指挥做好准备。

You can do just a ton of reps and get to become the person who can just navigate the turbulence really, really gracefully.

你可以做大量的重复，然后成为一个能够真正、非常优雅地驾驭动荡的人。

Tristan de Montebello: Which reminds me of a Kevin Kelly quote that I love where he says, "Pros are just amateurs who've learned to recover gracefully from their mistakes." And this is what we're trying to do here.

Tristan de Montebello：这让我想起了凯文·凯利的一句话，我很喜欢他说的：“职业选手只是学会从错误中优雅地恢复的业余爱好者。”这就是我们在这里尝试做的事情。

If you know that you can recover from any mistake gracefully, then you're going to have confidence in any speaking scenario.

如果你知道自己可以从容地从任何错误中恢复过来，那么你就会对任何演讲场景充满信心。

And most of the scenarios you're going to be in are spontaneous, are ones you can't prepare for.

你将要遇到的大多数场景都是自发的，是你无法准备的。

So it's that much more important.

所以这更加重要。

Tristan de Montebello: So tell me, what do you remember from going through Conductor and the Creator Cohort, or specifically here, what was coming up and what were some of the things that pop into your mind?

Tristan de Montebello：所以告诉我，你在指挥和创造者队列中记得什么，或者具体来说，接下来发生了什么以及你脑海中浮现的一些事情是什么？

Lenny Rachitsky: There's two things that I really took away from it, and it's different doing it now on camera with this whole podcast thing.

Lenny Rachitsky：我确实从中学到了两件事，而且现在在镜头前拍摄整个播客的事情是不同的。

Lenny Rachitsky: But the things that I really took away that have stuck with me from this exercise is one, is that you have this kind of metaphor of these file folders that you have kind of in your head where every energy level, like a one when you go low and a 10 or even a five, when you're at that energy level, you access different insights and memories and stories.

Lenny Rachitsky：但我从这个练习中真正学到的、一直困扰着我的一点是，你对这些文件夹有一种隐喻，在你的头脑中，每个能量水平，比如当你处于低能量水平时是 1，10 甚至 5，当你处于那个能量水平时，你会获得不同的见解、记忆和故事。

So it's not just like, "Now I'm going to say the same thing at a 10, or I'm going to say the same thing at a one." It's when you let your body just slow down and relax to a one, new thoughts come up, because making it up as you go along and you're just trying to figure it out as you go.

所以这不仅仅是“现在我要在 10 时说同样的事情，或者我要在 1 时说同样的事情”。当你让你的身体放慢速度并放松到一个状态时，新的想法就会出现，因为你会在前进的过程中弥补它，而你只是在前进的过程中试图弄清楚它。

And that really happens when you're forced to go from five to, "Okay," and you let your body settle into a one.

当你被迫从五号变成“好吧”，然后你让你的身体适应一号时，这种情况确实会发生。

You're like, "Oh, okay, here's a new thought that comes to mind." So that was really powerful for me because I never had realized that.

你会说，“哦，好吧，我想到了一个新想法。”所以这对我来说真的很强大，因为我从来没有意识到这一点。

Lenny Rachitsky: And then, the other is just this idea of doing these really hard things with very low stakes.

Lenny Rachitsky：然后，另一个就是以非常低的风险做这些非常困难的事情的想法。

It's higher stakes, so maybe that's why it's different, how it feels different doing it here where it's like, "Oh, this is-"

这是更高的风险，所以也许这就是为什么它是不同的，在这里做它的感觉是如何不同的，就像，“哦，这是——”

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

Yeah, this is extremely high stakes for you.

是的，这对你来说风险极高。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah, relatively.

Lenny Rachitsky：是的，相对而言。

But yeah, there it's a couple people and you're like, just don't worry about failing so you don't even have to worry about apologizing or fleaking.

但是，是的，有几个人，你就像，不用担心失败，所以你甚至不必担心道歉或逃跑。

It's just like, "Yeah, I did what I did." So those are two really powerful ones.

就像，“是的，我做了我所做的。”所以这是两个非常强大的。

I just like practicing this.

我就是喜欢练习这个。

And knowing you'll be okay at low stakes builds confidence.

知道自己在低风险下不会有问题，这会增强信心。

I'm like, "Okay." It's making up a minute of talk about the most random thing on the spot, not something that I would feel I'd want to do, but then you realize, "Okay, it's fine.

我说：“好吧。”这是用一分钟的时间谈论现场最随机的事情，而不是我觉得我想做的事情，但后来你意识到，“好吧，没关系。

I can do that."

我能做到。”

Tristan de Montebello: The common theme for me, and I've been on this journey for seven years now, I still am blown away every week by the lessons I've learned over the course of the seven years, which all come down to your brain, your subconscious is so incredibly powerful.

Tristan de Montebello：这对我来说是共同的主题，我已经踏上这段旅程七年了，每周我仍然对我在这七年中学到的教训感到震惊，这些教训都归结于你的大脑，你的潜意识是如此强大。

So your hardware is magical.

所以你的硬件很神奇。

And because I've spent seven years kind of getting rid of the bad habits, getting rid of the gunk and trusting myself more, I allow myself to take many more risks.

因为我花了七年的时间改掉坏习惯，改掉垃圾，更加信任自己，所以我允许自己承担更多的风险。

So I'm jumping into these games still with the same doubts in some sense, but they've just, everything's tapered down way, way, way into the background.

因此，在某种意义上，我仍然带着同样的疑虑跳入这些游戏，但它们只是，一切都在逐渐减弱到背景中。

So I get to be much more present.

所以我变得更加活在当下。

Tristan de Montebello: And I talked about the summary prompts earlier in the podcast, saying the beginning of a sentence and trusting that your brain's going to fill in the gap is something that's initially hard to do.

Tristan de Montebello：我在播客早些时候谈到了摘要提示，说出句子的开头并相信你的大脑会填补空白，这最初是很难做到的。

But when you've done it 1,000, 2,000, 10,000 times, you start believing, "Hey, maybe my brain will deliver every single time." So you can start saying the beginning of sentences the direction you want to go into and your brain fills in the gap, and we're going to do a game on that in a second.

但当你完成了 1,000、2,000、10,000 次之后，你就会开始相信，“嘿，也许我的大脑每次都会成功。”因此，你可以开始说出你想要进入的方向的句子开头，然后你的大脑就会填补空白，我们将在一秒钟内就此做一个游戏。

Tristan de Montebello: But the Conductor one is so beautiful because the way we describe it, so that folder one when it came into my mind was my favorite ever.

Tristan de Montebello：但是指挥家那一款非常漂亮，因为我们描述它的方式，所以当我想到文件夹那一款时，它是我最喜欢的。

But the original one was when you tap into a certain energy, that creates emotion.

但最初的想法是当你利用某种能量时，就会产生情感。

And if you tap into that emotion, the words come as a natural consequence.

如果你挖掘出这种情感，这些话就会自然而然地出现。

So it's energy leads, emotions follow, and words fill in the gap.

因此，能量引领，情感跟随，言语填补空白。

Tristan de Montebello: And when you experience this for yourself, if you go into Conductor and you play, you realize, "Okay, if I want more conviction, I can raise my energy or get into a state of conviction and the words that are going to come out, the ideas, the stories, the anecdotes, the examples, everything is going to fit into that.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：当你亲自体验到这一点时，如果你进入指挥家并演奏，你会意识到，“好吧，如果我想要更多的信念，我可以提高我的能量或进入一种信念的状态，并且即将出现的词语，想法，故事，轶事，例子，一切都会融入其中。

If I feel frustrated, I can dive into that state and stay in that state, and naturally the content is going to follow.

如果我感到沮丧，我可以潜入那种状态并保持在那种状态，自然内容就会随之而来。

It's a very, very powerful game.

这是一款非常非常强大的游戏。

It's a very exciting game, and it's a game that, especially when you're playing with low stakes, you very quickly feel the effect of, "Oh, I can see the potential of what it could be if I could just be like this anywhere." Maybe you taper out a little bit of the extremes.

这是一款非常令人兴奋的游戏，尤其是当你玩低赌注时，你很快就会感受到这样的效果：“哦，我可以看到如果我在任何地方都能像这样的话，它会带来什么样的潜力。”也许你会逐渐减少一些极端行为。

Tristan de Montebello: But you can access this for free on Ultraspeaking or the way we did this at first, you just go to Google and type in a random series of nine numbers and then just have a friend say each number, one after the next, and you just match it.

Tristan de Montebello：但是你可以在 Ultraspeaking 上免费访问这个，或者像我们一开始做的那样，你只需去 Google 并随机输入九个数字，然后让朋友一个接一个地说出每个数字，然后你就可以匹配它。

I used to just put my hand out and go up and down.

我过去只是伸出手，上下移动。

So in essence, it's very, very simple to apply it.

所以从本质上讲，应用它非常非常简单。

Lenny Rachitsky: And it's just like a lot of fun to just get an excuse to just go wild and high and then just get low.

Lenny Rachitsky：找个借口疯狂、高涨，然后又低落，这感觉很有趣。

I love that part of it.

我喜欢那部分。

And let's get into the next theme.

让我们进入下一个主题。

But just one other insight I had that you shared with me when I did it the first time is just people have a strength.

但当我第一次这样做时，你与我分享的另一个见解是，人们都有力量。

Lenny Rachitsky: They're either, correct me if I'm wrong, they're strong at the highs and just very uncomfortable at the lows or the opposite.

Lenny Rachitsky：他们要么是，如果我错了，请纠正我，他们在高点时很强，但在低点时非常不舒服，或者相反。

And for me, I thought I was going to, "Oh, obviously I'll be more natural at the lows, because like introvert world." And you're like, "No, you're actually super energized at this high end, and then it's hard for you to access the low." And I thought that was really insightful for me.

对我来说，我想我会，“哦，显然我在低谷时会更自然，因为喜欢内向的世界。”你会说，“不，你实际上在这个高端非常精力充沛，然后你就很难进入低端。”我认为这对我来说真的很有洞察力。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

You'll notice it pretty quickly once you jump in, especially with a friend.

一旦你投入其中，尤其是和朋友一起，你很快就会注意到这一点。

It's cool because when you get to see, "Oh, I'm much more comfortable going up than I am going down or vice versa, or I'm stuck in the middle and I am only comfortable when I'm not in the extremes." It's just telling you something.

这很酷，因为当你看到，“哦，我上升比下降更舒服，反之亦然，或者我被困在中间，只有当我不处于极端时我才感到舒服。”它只是告诉你一些事情。

Tristan de Montebello: This is what we want.

Tristan de Montebello：这就是我们想要的。

We want to a mirror in front of us so I can know, "Okay, what's happening here?" I'm not very much a fan of actually watching yourself on camera on video, because again, this is an inner game, not an outer game.

我们想要在我们面前有一面镜子，这样我就可以知道，“好吧，这里发生了什么？”我不太喜欢在视频中实际观看自己的镜头，因为这又是一场内心游戏，而不是一场外在游戏。

So when I watch myself on video, I see the outside, which can be useful for certain things, but the fundamentals are inside.

因此，当我在视频中观看自己时，我看到的是外部，这对某些事情可能有用，但基本原理是内部的。

So getting a mirror of I play this game and I feel a certain way, "Oh, interesting.

因此，我在玩这个游戏时得到了镜子，我有一种感觉，“哦，有趣。

It was easy to go up." So I can muster energy pretty quickly, and I'm willing to take risks of jumping into a different energy stage, which might mean changing the direction of where I'm going.

上升很容易。”所以我可以很快聚集能量，并且我愿意冒险跳入不同的能量阶段，这可能意味着改变我前进的方向。

Tristan de Montebello: But slowing down means I need to be willing to take up space.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：但是放慢速度意味着我需要愿意占据空间。

I need to be willing to just be while everybody's looking at me and I'm using up their time.

当每个人都在看着我而我正在耗尽他们的时间时，我需要愿意这样做。

But I'm going to take up space and I'm going to take a moment to go inside and be introspective and really ask myself, "Okay, what do I want to say here?" And so, that's a reflection of, "Well, what does that mean if I struggle to do that?" And that's why speaking such an interesting skill set.

但我要占用一些空间，我要花点时间进去反省，并真正问自己，“好吧，我想在这里说什么？”所以，这反映了“好吧，如果我很难做到这一点，那意味着什么？”这就是为什么要谈论如此有趣的技能。

Lenny Rachitsky: All right, let's do another game.

Lenny Rachitsky：好吧，我们再玩一场游戏。

Tristan de Montebello: This next game is called Triple Step.

Tristan de Montebello：下一款游戏称为“三步”。

And Triple step is a game for people who struggle to stay on a single thought or get very easily put off their game or distracted.

Triple Step 是一款适合那些难以集中精力或很容易放弃游戏或分心的人的游戏。

If you're the type of person where you're speaking and suddenly somebody yawns and you just start freaking out thinking, "I'm so boring and things are horrible, I must be terrible." Not, they probably have a baby and they didn't sleep last night.

如果你是那种在说话时突然有人打哈欠的人，你就会开始惊慌失措地想：“我太无聊了，事情太可怕了，我一定很糟糕。”不，他们可能有孩子了，昨晚没睡。

A pen drops and you start losing your ability to stay on track, this is a game for you.

一支笔掉落，您开始失去保持正轨的能力，这是一款适合您的游戏。

Also, a very fun one.

另外，也是非常好玩的一个。

Tristan de Montebello: The principle of the game is pretty simple.

Tristan de Montebello：游戏的原理非常简单。

Similarly to Conductor, we're going to start with a random speech title.

与指挥类似，我们将从随机的演讲标题开始。

So I have no idea what's going to show up.

所以我不知道会出现什么。

Then as I'm speaking, in this setting here, I'm going to speak for a minute.

然后，当我讲话时，在这种情况下，我要讲一分钟。

There will six random words or series of words that are going to pop up as I'm going through my speech.

当我进行演讲时，将会弹出六个随机单词或一系列单词。

And my goal is to integrate the words into the speech as seamlessly as I can, as if they were part of the speech the whole time.

我的目标是尽可能将单词无缝地融入演讲中，就好像它们一直是演讲的一部分一样。

So in theory, if I do a perfect job, if you're listening, you should struggle to pick out which words were actually the words that were popped up.

所以从理论上讲，如果我做得很完美，如果你在听，你应该很难找出哪些单词实际上是弹出的单词。

The likelihood in one minute of me being able to do that is low, but let's see if you can do it.

我在一分钟内能够做到这一点的可能性很低，但让我们看看你是否能做到。

So if you're listening, you're not going to see the words.

所以如果你在听，你就不会看到这些词。

We'll tell you afterwards what they were.

我们稍后会告诉你它们是什么。

See if you can pick up on them.

看看你是否能接受他们。

But otherwise, my goal is just to choose a strong direction and stay on that direction as naturally as I can.

但除此之外，我的目标只是选择一个强有力的方向，并尽可能自然地坚持这个方向。

Tristan de Montebello: Here we go.

特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗：我们开始吧。

The title is, How Would Your Friends Describe You?

标题是《你的朋友会如何形容你？》

I've been described as a Labrador by my friends.

我的朋友们形容我是拉布拉多犬。

And I think the reason people describe me as a Labrador is because I am so easy to excite.

我认为人们将我描述为拉布拉多犬的原因是因为我很容易兴奋。

It's like if you give me a box of french fries, I'm going to go nuts and it's going to be the best french fries I've ever tasted in my life.

就像如果你给我一盒炸薯条，我会发疯，而这将是我一生中吃过的最好的炸薯条。

But if the next day I get a massage, I'll be completely in that experience and the massage is going to be the best massage.

但如果第二天我接受按摩，我将完全沉浸在这种体验中，并且按摩将是最好的按摩。

And then, I'm going to think, "I need to get a massage every day." I'm going to start daydreaming about massage as my natural day to day.

然后，我会想，“我每天都需要按摩。”我要开始做白日梦，把按摩当作我的日常。

Tristan de Montebello: But the problem with being a Labrador is that Labradors get kind of excited.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：但作为拉布拉多犬的问题是拉布拉多犬会变得有点兴奋。

So I may be doing cartwheels one second, and the next second I'm supposed to be working.

所以前一秒我可能还在侧手翻，下一秒我就应该开始工作了。

And so, I'll be on my computer, but then I hear the microwave ding and I think, "Oh, maybe I should go get some food next." And so, there's a beautiful trait to being the Labrador that allows me to explore all of what it's like to be human.

所以，我会在我的电脑上，但然后我听到微波炉叮当声，我想，“哦，也许我接下来应该去买点食物。”因此，作为拉布拉多犬有一个美丽的特质，它让我能够探索作为人类的所有感受。

I always have access to the internet inside me, but there are definitely some drawbacks as well.

我体内总是可以访问互联网，但也肯定存在一些缺点。

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

So the words that you had to integrate are french fries, getting a massage, daydreaming, cartwheels, a microwave, and the internet.

所以你必须整合的词是炸薯条、按摩、白日梦、侧手翻、微波炉和互联网。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

And so, you might notice that some of the words I'm integrating literally, and some I might integrate more metaphorically like the internet of my mind.

因此，您可能会注意到，我从字面上整合了一些单词，而我可能会以隐喻的方式整合一些单词，就像我头脑中的互联网一样。

It's like I have access to the internet.

就像我可以访问互联网一样。

So you can give yourself as much leeway as possible.

所以你可以给自己尽可能多的余地。

The whole point here with Triple Step is you want to be that tree in the storm that is not so rigid that if the wind is too strong it's going to break in half, but not so flexible that it's going to swing every which direction as soon as there's a gust.

“三步”的要点是，你想要成为暴风雨中的那棵树，它不会那么僵硬，如果风太强，它会折成两半，但也不会那么灵活，一旦有阵风，它就会向各个方向摆动。

So you want that firm solid grounding, which is in choosing a clear direction, that one thing off the bat, and then you want to make the words work for you.

因此，你需要坚实的基础，即选择一个明确的方向，即刻完成的一件事，然后你想让这些词对你有用。

So stay focused on that one thing.

因此，请专注于这一件事。

And as the words come in, the more focused you are on that groove you've created for yourself, the easier it will be to let the words work for you.

随着单词的出现，你越专注于为自己创造的节奏，就越容易让单词为你发挥作用。

Okay?

好吧？

Lenny Rachitsky: And again, the skill this builds is to be more comfortable with things not going perfectly and being distracted.

Lenny Rachitsky：再说一次，这种培养的技能是能够更适应事情进展不顺利和分心。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

I would say this one can be used for two other things.

我想说这个可以用于另外两件事。

Number one is resiliency, right?

第一个是弹性，对吗？

Because this one will make your brain go crazy.

因为这会让你的大脑发疯。

And if you can stay composed within it, with all of these things happening, it really builds this ability to say, "Well, man, if I can do Triple Step on hard mode, I can do anything.

如果你能在所有这些事情发生的情况下保持镇静，它真的会培养你这样说的能力：“好吧，伙计，如果我能在困难模式下完成三步，我就能做任何事情。

Why would anything else scary?

为什么还会有其他可怕的事情呢？

Why would an interview question scare me when I can throw these kinds of things?

当我可以抛出这些东西时，为什么面试问题会让我感到害怕？

I can always navigate my way through." Right?

我总能找到自己的路。”对吗？

We're trying to lower the likelihood of a mistake really hurting you.

我们正在努力降低错误真正伤害您的可能性。

Tristan de Montebello: And then, the other piece is this is a game, this one and a game called Rapid Fire Analogies, are games that are really, really nice to use as a way to warm your brain up.

Tristan de Montebello：然后，另一件事是，这是一款游戏，这款游戏和一款名为“Rapid Fire Analogies”的游戏，都是非常非常适合用来预热大脑的游戏。

So you could use it before a podcast.

所以你可以在播客之前使用它。

You could use it before a job interview, before a meeting.

您可以在工作面试之前、会议之前使用它。

When you want to be on, do a few reps of this, and your brain's just going to be completely lit up because it's pulling on so many different parts of your brain that are necessary for communication.

当你想继续时，重复几次这样的动作，你的大脑就会完全被照亮，因为它会拉动你大脑中沟通所需的许多不同部分。

Lenny Rachitsky: One last thought just before we dive into it.

Lenny Rachitsky：在我们深入讨论之前，还有最后一个想法。

I think it's just to zoom out again, the reason that you've found this is a better way to learn to become better at public speaking, my sense is just if you were to just do the standard thing of just give more talks, find more opportunities to do presentations, it's too broad of a brush to build these different skills, and which you've identified is there's these very specific skills that add up to a great presenter.

我认为这只是再次缩小，因为你发现这是学习如何提高公开演讲的更好方法，我的感觉是，如果你只是做标准的事情，只是进行更多的演讲，找到更多的机会做演讲，那么建立这些不同的技能就太宽泛了，而你已经发现，这些非常具体的技能加在一起就能成为一名出色的演讲者。

And these games pick a specific skill and help you just focus on that again and again and again.

这些游戏会选择特定的技能，并帮助你一次又一次地专注于该技能。

Tristan de Montebello: If you're already practicing, you're already leagues ahead of everyone, because most people aren't practicing.

Tristan de Montebello：如果你已经在练习了，那么你已经领先于所有人，因为大多数人都没有练习。

They're you're trying to learn from a video or a YouTube short or an article.

它们是您试图从视频、YouTube 短片或文章中学习的内容。

You can only go so far with that.

你只能走到这一步了。

But if you are practicing, there are kind of two suboptimal ways that might show up.

但如果你正在练习，可能会出现两种次优的方法。

One is what you're saying.

其一就是你所说的。

You're doing talks and you're speaking up more, but you're not really practicing.

你在做演讲，你说得更多，但你并没有真正练习。

It's kind of, as you were saying, it's broad, broad strokes.

正如你所说，它是一种非常广泛的笔触。

Tristan de Montebello: The other one is you are in a choreography, so it's like learning how to dance, but you only learn choreography.

Tristan de Montebello：另一个是你在编舞，所以这就像学习如何跳舞，但你只学习编舞。

Well, that's all you know how to do.

嗯，这就是你知道该怎么做的全部。

So if I ask you to do, I say, "Okay, now I'm going to put music on.

所以如果我要求你这样做，我会说：“好吧，现在我要放音乐了。

Just dance." You're kind of stuck because you only know how to do the moves you were doing.

跳舞吧。”你有点陷入困境，因为你只知道如何做你正在做的动作。

So we're trying to get people outside of, "I have to be in my mind, or I have to do things that I've memorized how to do" and come back to trusting your natural ability to communicate.

因此，我们试图让人们摆脱“我必须在我的脑海里，或者我必须做我已经记住如何做的事情”的想法，并重新相信你天生的沟通能力。

Tristan de Montebello: So that's what we're doing here.

Tristan de Montebello：这就是我们在这里所做的。

You can feel like when you don't speak, when you struggle with speaking, you're stuck in this box, and everything around you is tiny and you can feel the sides of the box.

当你不说话时，当你难以说话时，你会感觉自己被困在这个盒子里，周围的一切都很小，你可以感觉到盒子的侧面。

And we're expanding the range.

我们正在扩大范围。

We're playing around with all kinds of different things, different tools.

我们正在尝试各种不同的东西、不同的工具。

And all of them have specific meaning, but even if they didn't that much, you still would be able to, "Oh wow," you're pushing back the sides of the box.

所有这些都有特定的含义，但即使它们没有那么多，你仍然能够，“哦哇，”你正在推开盒子的两侧。

And now suddenly, "Hey, I can move around.

现在突然间，“嘿，我可以四处走动了。

I feel comfortable moving my arms and moving my legs and going to the right and the left and up and down." And just that act of making you feel more comfortable and more at ease is going to unlock your ability to communicate, because you already know how to do a lot of this.

我感觉很舒服地移动我的手臂、移动我的腿、左右移动、上下移动。”正是这种让你感觉更舒服、更轻松的行为将释放你的沟通能力，因为你已经知道如何做很多这样的事情。

So we're tapping into these different skill sets and we're doing both at the same time.

因此，我们正在利用这些不同的技能，并且同时进行这两项工作。

Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Brave Search.

Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Brave Search 为您带来。

Brave Search is the private, independent search engine that doesn't bias or censor results.

Brave Search 是私人、独立的搜索引擎，不会偏见或审查结果。

Brave Search and its answers with AI feature are available for free to all users on desktop and mobile devices.

Brave Search 及其具有 AI 功能的答案可免费向桌面和移动设备上的所有用户提供。

With Brave Search, you get real answers faster, served from their own independent index of the web.

通过 Brave Search，您可以更快地从他们自己的独立网络索引中获得真正的答案。

Their AI search engine can give lightning fast, incredibly accurate results for almost any question.

他们的人工智能搜索引擎可以为几乎任何问题提供闪电般快速、极其准确的结果。

Lenny Rachitsky: But Brave isn't just AI answers.

Lenny Rachitsky：但 Brave 不仅仅是人工智能的答案。

It's also a powerful traditional search engine with real innovations versus big tech options.

它也是一个强大的传统搜索引擎，与大型技术选项相比具有真正的创新。

It fights bias and SEO spam.

它对抗偏见和 SEO 垃圾邮件。

It brings a cleaner results page with fewer ads, Reddit threads in the search engine results page, powerful local results, and even community-driven ranking options.

它带来了更干净的结果页面、更少的广告、搜索引擎结果页面中的 Reddit 线程、强大的本地结果，甚至是社区驱动的排名选项。

Tired of big tech's same old list of links?

厌倦了大型科技公司相同的旧链接列表？

It's time to try Brave Search.

是时候尝试勇敢搜索了。

Visit brave.com/Lenny to get started.

请访问brave.com/Lenny 开始。

That's brave.com/Lenny.

那是brave.com/Lenny。

Lenny Rachitsky: All right, let's do this.

Lenny Rachitsky：好吧，让我们开始吧。

I'm energized.

我充满活力。

I'm pumped.

我很兴奋。

Lenny Rachitsky: No, I'm not going to...

莱尼·拉奇茨基：不，我不会……

I was going to say I'm going to nail it, but no, let's just have fun.

我本来想说我会成功的，但是不，让我们玩得开心吧。

Let's have fun.

让我们玩得开心吧。

Lenny Rachitsky: Okay.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。

And I'll say the title.

我会说标题。

The best thing about pain.

关于疼痛最好的事情。

So this is something I recently shared in another talk is just this quote that I always think of.

这是我最近在另一个演讲中分享的，也是我一直想到的这句话。

Lenny Rachitsky: In another talk is just this quote that I always think of, "The cave you fear contains the treasure you seek," that the thing that is hardest often points you in the direction you want to go.

Lenny Rachitsky：在另一次演讲中，我总是想起这句话，“你害怕的洞穴里蕴藏着你寻求的宝藏”，最困难的事情往往会为你指明你想去的方向。

Like I hate blue cheese, but sometimes I find that if I eat the blue cheese and add it to a salad, it ends up being the best salad I've had.

就像我讨厌蓝纹奶酪一样，但有时我发现如果我吃蓝纹奶酪并将其添加到沙拉中，它最终会成为我吃过的最好的沙拉。

Having kids is another amazing example where just kids are...

生孩子是另一个令人惊奇的例子，其中只有孩子......

There's so much pain, but it's also, there's nothing that is more joyous than having a kid.

虽然有很多痛苦，但同时，没有什么比拥有一个孩子更快乐的事情了。

Lenny Rachitsky: And sometimes even growing a beard.

Lenny Rachitsky：有时甚至会留胡子。

I grow this beard and I have to maintain this beard for the rest of my life.

我留了这胡子，我必须终生保留这胡子。

And I know people would look at me without a beard and be like, "What the hell?

我知道人们会看着我没有胡子，然后说：“搞什么鬼？

Well, you look so different now and so young." Sometimes I think about just having a sibling and the pain that if I had a brother, if he just hit me, the pain that would come from that, but just then having the brother would be so much worth it, even if he's hitting me all this time.

嗯，你现在看起来很不一样，而且很年轻。”有时我会想到只有一个兄弟姐妹，如果我有一个兄弟，如果他打我，就会带来痛苦，但只要有这个兄弟就会非常值得，即使他一直打我。

Lenny Rachitsky: And there, I ran out of time, but that was solid.

Lenny Rachitsky：在那里，我没时间了，但那是可靠的。

Tristan de Montebello: Okay, I realize this is your first time playing Triple Step.

Tristan de Montebello：好的，我知道这是你第一次玩三步。

It's kind of mean of me if you -

如果你——

Tristan de Montebello: ...

特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗：...

Give you six words.

给你六个字。

So I'm going to give you four words.

所以我要给你四个字。

Tristan de Montebello: But here's what I noticed.

Tristan de Montebello：但这就是我注意到的。

What I noticed is you were letting the word...

我注意到你让这个词...

The word was the beginning of a new thought.

这个词是一个新思想的开始。

Right, so you say, "Another thing is beers.

是的，所以你说，“另一件事是啤酒。

Another thing is...".

另一件事是……”。

So you're finishing your thought and then you're moving on to the next one.

所以你完成了你的想法，然后你就开始下一个想法。

Try to hold onto one direction.

尝试坚持一个方向。

The one direction is approach your fears head on.

一个方向就是直面你的恐惧。

And then, so when you see a puzzle, it's like, look, this doesn't have to be a hard puzzle because now I know that if it's scary, I do it.

然后，当你看到一个谜题时，你会觉得，看，这不一定是一个很难的谜题，因为现在我知道，如果它很可怕，我就会做。

And it's like having kids, which I thought was so scary, I just jumped in and now I'm moving forward.

这就像生孩子一样，我觉得这太可怕了，我就跳进去了，现在我正在向前迈进。

And so it's like I'm growing my beard without caring what other people think just because it might be scary, or maybe I cut my beard because that would be something scary.

所以这就像我留胡子而不关心别人的想法只是因为这可能很可怕，或者也许我剪掉了胡子因为那会很可怕。

So you're holding onto the line.

所以你要抓住这条线。

Tristan de Montebello: With four, it's going to be a little bit easier to integrate them.

Tristan de Montebello：有了四个，整合起来会更容易一些。

Ready?

准备好？

Lenny Rachitsky: Social distancing.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：保持社交距离。

It's interesting that social distancing was such a thing that we all had to do for so long.

有趣的是，社交距离是我们所有人都必须做的事情这么长时间。

And then all of a sudden we look back at that time we're like, "Was that actually necessary?

然后突然间，我们回首那段时光，我们会想：“这真的有必要吗？

Did we actually have to stay far from each other?

我们真的必须彼此保持距离吗？

Did that actually have any impact?".

这实际上有什么影响吗？”

Lenny Rachitsky: There's all these things we have to learn, like sometimes we look at the stock market and we wonder, "Should I be paying attention to the stock market?

Lenny Rachitsky：我们必须学习所有这些东西，就像有时我们在观察股票市场时会想，“我应该关注股票市场吗？

Should I be distancing myself from it?

我应该远离它吗？

Should I be investing more often?

我应该更频繁地投资吗？

Should I be reading every newspaper that comes out every day to stay on top of what's happening in the world?

我是否应该阅读每天出版的每份报纸以了解世界上正在发生的事情？

Should I get closer to this information or should I distance myself?

我应该更接近这些信息还是应该保持距离？

What's better for me?".

什么对我更好？”。

And sometimes it feels like you're running this marathon where sometimes you go back and forth.

有时感觉就像你在跑马拉松，有时你会来回走动。

Sometimes it's, "Let's all be together.

有时候，“让我们在一起吧。

Let's pay attention to all the news.

让我们一起关注一切新闻吧。

Let's hang out." And it kind of feels like I just want to just want to go to the toilet and peace out.

我们出去玩吧。”感觉就像我只是想去厕所，平静一下。

Tristan de Montebello: Amazing.

特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗：太棒了。

That works.

那行得通。

That's really good.

那真是太好了。

Tristan de Montebello: That's really good.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：那真是太好了。

Well, tell me what, because again, the games are meant to put you in a state of turbulence and find out what was easy, what was hard, what am I noticing?

好吧，告诉我什么，因为同样，游戏的目的是让你处于一种动荡的状态，并找出什么是容易的，什么是困难的，我注意到了什么？

And now you know what you want to work on.

现在您知道自己想做什么。

If you did a rep and you got it and it went perfectly, then you're learning nothing.

如果你做了一次代表并且你得到了它并且进展顺利，那么你什么也学不到。

A really easy rep is not worth much.

一个非常简单的代表并没有多大价值。

The only reps that are worth something are the ones where you feel an edge.

唯一有价值的代表是那些让你感觉有优势的代表。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。

And by the way, we should say the words right, that I had.

顺便说一句，我们应该正确地说出我说过的话。

Tristan de Montebello: Oh, yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：哦，是的。

The first one was the stock market, then a newspaper, which you brought in really, really well, then running a marathon, and then toilet.

第一个是股票市场，然后是报纸，你把它带得非常非常好，然后跑马拉松，然后是厕所。

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

Yeah, just the fact that I'm okay doing this is a big milestone for me of just like, ah, whatever.

是的，我可以做这件事，这对我来说是一个重要的里程碑，就像，啊，无论如何。

Because before doing this thing I'm like, oh my God, I never want to sit there and come up with a talk for a minute on the most random subject, and there's a lot of power in just feeling comfortable just doing it, just like, sure, let's do it.

因为在做这件事之前，我会想，哦天啊，我从来不想坐在那里就最随意的话题想出一分钟的演讲，而只是感觉舒服地做这件事就有很大的力量，就像，当然，让我们开始吧。

Whatever.

任何。

Something will come out that's interesting enough.

将会出现一些足够有趣的东西。

Tristan de Montebello: That's why taking on this journey of speaking is so empowering because speaking is a high performance skill.

Tristan de Montebello：这就是为什么踏上演讲之旅如此充满力量，因为演讲是一项高性能技能。

So taking on a high performance skill, and starting to tackle it, and getting kind of good at it is very addictive.

因此，掌握一项高性能技能，并开始解决它，并变得擅长它是非常容易上瘾的。

It feels really, really good.

感觉真的非常非常好。

If you get good at tennis, if you get good at golf, if you get good at anything, product management, it's a addicting, it's exciting.

如果你擅长网球，如果你擅长高尔夫，如果你擅长任何事情，产品管理，它会让人上瘾，令人兴奋。

And as soon as you get good, there's nuance to it, and it's energizing in and of itself.

一旦你变得优秀，就会有细微差别，而且它本身就会充满活力。

And because we have such awesome hardware as humans, we've been speaking all of our life, a lot of us have a pretty decent level to start out with.

因为我们拥有像人类一样出色的硬件，所以我们一生都在说话，我们中的很多人一开始就有相当不错的水平。

So you really quickly, you're getting to like, "Oh, I'm getting some results here.

所以你很快就会喜欢，“哦，我在这里得到了一些结果。

This actually feels good." So there's something really energizing about jumping into it.

这实际上感觉很好。”因此，投入其中确实会让人充满活力。

It's the thinking about doing the exercise that's scary, but as soon as you're in it, it's energizing and empowering.

一想到要进行这项练习就很可怕，但一旦你参与其中，就会充满活力和力量。

Lenny Rachitsky: And also just doing it, this is a very hard exercise.

Lenny Rachitsky：而且只是去做，这是一项非常艰苦的练习。

Just giving a made up talk for a minute with words you have to integrate, and concepts.

只需用你必须整合的词语和概念进行一分钟的编造演讲。

And I think just doing that makes a regular talk so much easier also, because you don't have to do that.

我认为这样做也会让日常谈话变得更加容易，因为你不必这样做。

So there's something there about just doing it on hard mode, learning things, and then, oh, okay, I just have to talk about a thing that I already know about, that I have planned, much easier.

所以，有一些关于在困难模式下做，学习东西，然后，哦，好吧，我只需要谈论一件我已经知道的事情，我已经计划好了，更容易。

Anything else around this game that is worth sharing before we do our final game?

在我们制作最终游戏之前，这款游戏还有什么值得分享的吗？

Tristan de Montebello: We have a whole series of games, and you could probably even invent other games, but some people will play Triple Step and will say, "Wow, that's so hard." And then they'll go and play Conductor and think, "Wow, this is my game.

Tristan de Montebello：我们有一整套游戏，你甚至可以发明其他游戏，但有些人会玩 Triple Step 并会说，“哇，这太难了。”然后他们会去玩指挥家并想，“哇，这是我的游戏。

This is so easy." But other people will play Conductor and think it's impossible, and then come play Triple Step and they'll be like, "Man, this is my jam.

这太容易了。”但其他人会玩指挥并认为这是不可能的，然后玩三步，他们会说，“伙计，这是我的果酱。

I can get this one very, very easy."

我可以非常非常容易地得到这个。”

Tristan de Montebello: So again, it's just a mirror of where you're at.

Tristan de Montebello：再说一次，它只是你所处位置的一面镜子。

And what's beautiful about this is you start playing around with these games, you're very, very quickly going to see, okay, this is my edge.

美妙之处在于，当你开始玩这些游戏时，你很快就会发现，好吧，这就是我的优势。

And where your edge is, as you were saying with your quote, is often where the gold lies.

正如您在引用中所说，您的优势所在往往就是金子所在。

So if you can spend some time there and learn what it is underneath the struggle, what's actually holding you back.

因此，如果您能花一些时间在那里了解斗争背后的原因，以及真正阻碍您前进的因素。

When you unlock that, whatever's holding you back in Triple Step, or in Conductor, in any other game, is holding you back elsewhere in your life.

当你解锁它时，无论在《Triple Step》、《指挥》还是任何其他游戏中阻碍你的因素，都会阻碍你生活中的其他方面。

So when you unlock it there, it kind of unlocks the other things, which is really nice, like a set of gears.

所以当你在那里解锁它时，它就解锁了其他东西，这真的很好，就像一组齿轮。

Lenny Rachitsky: And it's interesting, as we were talking, where my mind keeps going is I just want to say how I didn't feel good about my performance, but I'm internalizing the lesson of don't leak how you feel.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：很有趣的是，当我们谈话时，我脑子里一直在想的是，我只是想说我对自己的表现感觉不太好，但我正在内化这个教训，不要泄露你的感受。

And that's a really powerful lesson.

这是一个非常有力的教训。

It's really hard not to just to be like, "Oh, that was not good." I really wanted to say that after every time I tried this and I am making myself not.

真的很难不只是说，“哦，那不好。”我真的很想说，每次我尝试这个之后，我都在努力让自己不这样做。

And I imagine from your perspective you're like, "No, it's fine.

我想从你的角度来看，你会说：“不，没关系。

It's like whatever."

就好像随便什么一样。”

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah, absolutely.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的，绝对如此。

I was actually thinking, I bet a lot of people watching you do that would think, wow, I don't think I could do that.

我实际上在想，我敢打赌很多人看着你这样做会想，哇，我认为我做不到。

That would be their first thought.

这是他们的第一个想法。

Tristan de Montebello: So absolutely.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：绝对如此。

And again, and this is a habit.

再说一遍，这是一种习惯。

And the noise doesn't completely disappear, but it goes down to being almost imperceptible.

噪音并没有完全消失，但几乎无法察觉。

So what we're trying to do is we're trying to internalize all of these habits to the point where I don't need to consciously think about them.

所以我们要做的就是努力将所有这些习惯内化到我不需要有意识地思考它们的程度。

Tristan de Montebello: So it's like a gymnast who's doing their tumbling routine and jumps into the air.

Tristan de Montebello：所以这就像一个体操运动员正在做翻滚动作，然后跳到空中。

As they're flipping, they're not consciously trying to think of how to do a flip.

当他们翻转时，他们不会有意识地思考如何翻转。

They've done it a thousand times.

他们已经这样做了一千次了。

They know how to do a flip.

他们知道如何做空翻。

The only thing they have that they may be thinking of, all of their attention is on being completely present to what's happening, relying on your body and your subconscious knowing what to do, is they have kind of like listeners, like in programming, keyboard listeners.

他们唯一可能想到的事情是，他们所有的注意力都集中在完全关注正在发生的事情上，依靠你的身体和你的潜意识知道要做什么，他们有一种类似听众的东西，就像编程中的键盘听众一样。

You have something that's there that is just listening for anything out of the ordinary.

你那里有一个东西，它只是在监听任何不寻常的事情。

And it's very, very fine-tuned.

而且它的调整非常非常精细。

Tristan de Montebello: So as I'm speaking, for example, I might think to myself, "Oh, I may be rambling right now.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：例如，当我说话时，我可能会想，“哦，我现在可能在胡言乱语。

Maybe I'm going a little bit too long." And it's a little listener that's going to just gently, nicely, say, "Hey, warning, I don't know if you're aware of this." And as I hear that, I might say, "Oh, okay, let me wrap it up." Or maybe it's saying, "I'm not sure if you're being clear," or, "Can you be more precise here?".

也许我要走的时间有点太长了。”这是一个小听众，他会温柔地、友善地说：“嘿，警告，我不知道你是否意识到这一点。”当我听到这个消息时，我可能会说：“哦，好吧，让我总结一下。”或者可能是在说，“我不确定你是否清楚”，或者“你能说得更准确吗？”。

Whatever it is, it's just a gentle listener in the background.

不管是什么，它只是背景中一个温柔的倾听者。

Tristan de Montebello: So as you get into the habit of staying in character, and if you had an audience here, we could have asked them right away, "Well, how do you feel about this?".

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：所以当你养成保持角色的习惯时，如果你在这里有观众，我们可以立即问他们，“那么，你对此有何看法？”。

You probably would've gotten really good feedback, really positive, which would've kind of jarred that feeling of, wow, I didn't think I did it that good of a job.

你可能会得到非常好的反馈，非常积极的反馈，这会有点刺耳的感觉，哇，我不认为我做得那么好。

And people are saying, "Hey, I thought that was pretty good." So As you get that reinforcing pattern, the voice starts going down more and more.

人们说：“嘿，我觉得那很好。”因此，当你获得这种强化模式时，声音就会开始越来越低。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

I need that voice to go down.

我需要那个声音下去。

That'd be great.

那太好了。

Always does.: Cool.

总是这样：酷。

Let's do last game.

我们来做最后一个游戏吧。

Last one of these practical games.

这些实用游戏的最后一款。

So this is actually a game from one of our courses that I'm pulling out.

所以这实际上是我从我们的一门课程中拿出来的游戏。

It's not a standalone game, it's one that's inside of the courses.

这不是一款独立的游戏，而是课程中的游戏。

But again, if you wanted to replicate this yourself, you can very easily do it.

但同样，如果你想自己复制这个，你可以很容易地做到。

Always does.: So what we're going to do here is we're going to work on conviction prompts.

总是如此。：所以我们在这里要做的是我们将致力于定罪提示。

So this comes back to this idea of entering a state or changing your energy to impact the words that are coming out of your mouth.

所以这又回到了进入一种状态或改变你的能量来影响你嘴里说出来的话的想法。

So what's going to happen here, is similarly to Triple Step, I'm also going to get a random topic that I just have to start speaking about.

所以这里将发生的事情，与三步类似，我也会得到一个随机的话题，我只需要开始谈论它。

But now, instead of getting a word that I have to integrate into my speech naturally, I'm going to get a prompt.

但现在，我将得到一个提示，而不是得到一个必须自然地融入我的演讲中的单词。

So it's going to be the beginning of a sentence that I have to say out loud, and I have to find a way for my brain to just complete the sentence.

所以这将是我必须大声说出来的一个句子的开头，我必须找到一种方法让我的大脑完成这个句子。

And the sentences are specifically chosen because they're going to put you in a state of more conviction.

这些句子是经过专门选择的，因为它们会让你更加坚定信念。

So it's going to force me to care more about what I'm saying basically.

所以这将迫使我更加关心我所说的基本上。

Always does.: And this is a game for executive presence.

总是这样。：这是一个高管风度的游戏。

If you think about somebody who you feel has great gravitas or great executive presence, they usually have, there's something about them that's saying, this person really believes in what they're saying.

如果你想到一个你觉得很有威严或很有执行力的人，他们通常都有，他们身上有一些东西在说，这个人真的相信他们所说的话。

And what this game is showing you is that, hey, there's a way to fast track myself to that place.

这个游戏向你展示的是，嘿，有一种方法可以让我快速到达那个地方。

If I want to have more executive presence, let me bring a little bit more conviction to what I'm saying.

如果我想有更多的行政存在，让我对我所说的话更有信心。

Always does.: There's a caveat, small caveat.

总是这样。：有一个警告，一个小警告。

Maybe 10% of people in the workforce need the opposite.

也许劳动力中 10% 的人需要相反的东西。

They need, "Hey, you need to maybe question what you're saying here." But the reality is the vast majority of people actually are not truly standing behind their words and their ideas.

他们需要，“嘿，你可能需要质疑你在这里所说的内容。”但现实是绝大多数人实际上并没有真正支持他们的言论和想法。

And what that does is that the people who speak a lot and feel a lot of conviction, their ideas go through more often than the others.

这样做的结果是，那些经常发言、充满信念的人，他们的想法比其他人更容易被接受。

And you'd want ideas to stand for themselves, but that's just not reality.

你希望想法能够代表自己，但这不是现实。

So for most people listening to this, if you can bring more conviction to your words, then your ideas are going to have a better chance of being seen equally to those who are already doing that.

因此，对于大多数听此演讲的人来说，如果你能让自己的话更有说服力，那么你的想法将有更好的机会被那些已经这样做的人平等地看待。

So this is what this game's about.

这就是这个游戏的意义所在。

Tristan de Montebello: Okay, here we go.

Tristan de Montebello：好的，我们开始吧。

The title is Saying No. I've had to learn this the hard way as an entrepreneur, that saying no is one of the most important things I can do.

书名是《说不》。作为一名企业家，我必须经历惨痛的教训才明白这一点：说“不”是我能做的最重要的事情之一。

But saying no is not saying no to a meeting, because that can be easy.

但说不并不是拒绝会议，因为这很容易。

And what I'm going to say now matters a ton.

我现在要说的话非常重要。

This is saying no to doing all of the exciting projects that I want to do.

这就是对我想做的所有令人兴奋的项目说不。

So as I said earlier, I'm Labrador.

正如我之前所说，我是拉布拉多犬。

I get excited about everything, and I genuinely believe that every idea is awesome, but that doesn't mean I can do every idea.

我对一切都感到兴奋，我真诚地相信每个想法都很棒，但这并不意味着我可以实现每个想法。

I need to choose a very clear focus and stick to that focus.

我需要选择一个非常明确的焦点并坚持这个焦点。

Tristan de Montebello: And this is a game changer.

Tristan de Montebello：这是一个游戏规则的改变者。

When you start reducing the amount of things you're doing to a painful amount, a painful few amount, then when you get there, suddenly everything else changed.

当你开始减少你正在做的事情的数量到一个痛苦的数量，一个痛苦的数量，然后当你到达那里时，突然一切都改变了。

And it astonishes me when I do that, just how much more I can get done, even though I'm doing fewer things.

当我这样做时，我感到惊讶的是，尽管我做的事情更少，但我还能完成多少事情。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢它。

That was great.

那很棒。

These words are tough.

这些话很难听。

Tristan de Montebello: They were, yeah.

Tristan de Montebello：是的，是的。

This was not an easy one.

这不是一件容易的事。

This was not a...

这不是一个...

Good thing that I get a tough one.

幸好我得到了一个艰难的人。

Well deserved.

当之无愧。

Lenny Rachitsky: Let me read the phrases real quick, just so folks know.

Lenny Rachitsky：让我快速读一下这些短语，让大家知道。

So the phrases you had to integrate is, "This matters a ton.

因此，您必须整合的短语是：“这非常重要。

I genuinely believe that every idea is awesome.

我真诚地相信每个想法都很棒。

Game changer."

游戏规则的改变者。”

Tristan de Montebello: It was just, "I genuinely believe that." Yeah.

Tristan de Montebello：只是，“我真的相信这一点。”是的。

Lenny Rachitsky: Oh, got it.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：哦，明白了。

Okay.

好的。

"I generally believe that." And then, "game changer".

“我基本上相信这一点。”然后，“游戏规则改变者”。

And then, "It astonishes me when."

然后，“这让我感到惊讶。”

Tristan de Montebello: And I'm so eager for you to go through this, and for anybody listening to try this for themselves, even if you know what's coming.

Tristan de Montebello：我非常渴望你能经历这一切，也渴望任何听众自己尝试一下，即使你知道会发生什么。

Like, if you want to do this for yourself right now, write the words, the prompts that Lenny just shared, and choose any title, and just speak for a minute, and see if you can integrate those in.

就像，如果你现在想自己做这件事，写下莱尼刚刚分享的文字和提示，然后选择任何标题，然后说一分钟，看看你是否可以将这些整合进去。

Because you're going to notice how if you bring conviction, these words naturally bring that out of you.

因为你会注意到，如果你带来了信念，这些话自然会带出你的信念。

And it's so interesting to watch the content change as a result of the state you get into and what you say.

观看内容因你所处的状态和你所说的话而变化是非常有趣的。

So it's really powerful to discover just how incredible your brain is.

因此，发现自己的大脑有多么不可思议是非常强大的。

Tristan de Montebello: So same intention for you I think, is choose a strong direction from the beginning.

Tristan de Montebello：所以我认为你的意图是从一开始就选择一个强有力的方向。

This is always, in speaking in general, the stronger the direction you choose in the beginning, the more ideas you're going to have.

一般来说，你一开始选择的方向越强，你的想法就越多。

Everything gets easier when you choose a strong direction.

当你选择一个坚定的方向时，一切都会变得更容易。

Tristan de Montebello: But the goal here, is as it says, advocate for an important idea related to the speech title.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：但正如它所说，这里的目标是倡导与演讲标题相关的重要想法。

Ready?

准备好？

Tristan de Montebello: The title is Space Exploration.

Tristan de Montebello：标题是《太空探索》。

Lenny Rachitsky: I think it's hard to imagine anything more important to the human race than space exploration.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我认为很难想象还有什么比太空探索对人类更重要的了。

I know there's a lot of talk about people wasting time trying to get us to Mars, or trying to not think about what is happening on earth, but I feel like there's nothing more powerful, and important, and inspiring.

我知道有很多人在谈论人们浪费时间试图让我们到达火星，或者试图不去思考地球上正在发生的事情，但我觉得没有什么比这更强大、更重要、更鼓舞人心了。

In fact, the entire world needs to focus more on the value of space exploration.

事实上，全世界都需要更加关注太空探索的价值。

There's so many things we can discover, so many things that can help us on earth, and we cannot forget how much potential exists outside of our little earth, that we think our whole existence and everything that's ever existed on this one planet, when really we're this tiny, pale blue dot.

我们可以发现很多东西，有很多东西可以帮助我们在地球上，我们不能忘记我们的小地球之外存在着多少潜力，我们认为我们的整个存在和这个星球上曾经存在的一切，而实际上我们只是这个微小的淡蓝色点。

And it just astonishes me when people don't think about this, don't think it matters, don't think they should spend any time getting us into space, investing money in space.

当人们不考虑这一点、不认为这很重要、不认为他们应该花任何时间让我们进入太空、在太空投资时，我感到很惊讶。

And just hearing stories, if nothing else, of people that have gone into space and how life-changing that was for them, should tell us that space exploration is incredibly powerful and important.

仅仅听听那些进入太空的人的故事，以及这对他们的生活有何改变，就应该告诉我们，太空探索是非常强大和重要的。

Tristan de Montebello: Yes, that was awesome.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的，那太棒了。

That was so cool.

太酷了。

So you had, the title was Space Exploration, and the words were, "in fact", "the entire world", then, "We cannot forget that," then, "It astonishes me when," and finally "life changing".

所以你的标题是《太空探索》，文字是“事实上”、“整个世界”，然后是“我们不能忘记这一点”，然后是“这让我感到惊讶”，最后是“改变生活”。

So what was that like?

那么那是什么样的呢？

What did it feel like getting...

得到什么感觉...

Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah, there's a lot of...

Lenny Rachitsky：是的，有很多......

It really helps, just like, "Here's the thing you're going to believe." And I don't know if I got lucky with stuff, but it just felt like, okay, I have, something comes up that I'm not going to leak.

这真的很有帮助，就像“这就是你要相信的事情”。我不知道我是否很幸运，但我只是感觉，好吧，我有，有些事情发生了，我不会泄露。

But anyway, it was like, oh yeah, cool, something interesting happens.

但无论如何，就像，哦，是的，很酷，有趣的事情发生了。

Lenny Rachitsky: And that's one of my other actual, just going on a little quick tangent, insights from the lessons that you guys teach, is that as you are forced to talk, you have new insights emerge.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：这是我从你们所教的课程中得到的另一个实际的、只是稍微切题的见解之一，那就是，当你被迫说话时，你就会出现新的见解。

And you almost figure out what you think and know by being forced to get out of your head, and these problems help you along that.

通过被迫从你的头脑中走出来，你几乎弄清楚了你的想法和知识，而这些问题可以帮助你做到这一点。

But I think that's really interesting, of just like, this will help you develop things, and insights, and take them out of your head.

但我认为这真的很有趣，就像这会帮助你发展事物和见解，并将它们从你的头脑中剔除。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的。

Well, hopefully we get to talk about the Accordion Method, one of the most powerful methods I have, which is very close to this.

好吧，希望我们能谈谈手风琴方法，这是我拥有的最强大的方法之一，与此非常接近。

Tristan de Montebello: But this is often a prompt I tell people when they're speaking.

Tristan de Montebello：但这通常是我在人们讲话时告诉他们的提示。

I say, because people tend to get into a public speaking voice, so we'll be in a class, and they'll be chatting normally, and look super normal.

我说，因为人们倾向于公开演讲，所以我们会在课堂上，他们会正常聊天，看起来非常正常。

And then we'll say, "Okay, now just a timer.

然后我们会说：“好吧，现在只是一个计时器。

I'm just going to give you a speech.

我只是要向您发表演讲。

Just speak for 60 seconds so we get a baseline." And I click play, and suddenly I say, "The important part about doing this," and they enter into a different version of themselves, a very professional version, whatever that would mean.

只要说 60 秒，我们就能得到一个基线。”我点击播放，突然我说，“做这件事的重要部分”，他们进入了自己的不同版本，一个非常专业的版本，无论这意味着什么。

It's so much more freeing, powerful, connecting, and effective to speak conversationally.

对话式交谈更加自由、强大、有联系且有效。

Tristan de Montebello: And so the cue I often give people is don't think about us, just think out loud.

Tristan de Montebello：所以我经常给人们的提示是不要考虑我们，只是大声思考。

And that's really what we're doing.

这正是我们正在做的事情。

We can, most people have a skill set that's up here and a mindset that's down here.

我们可以，大多数人都拥有这里的技能和这里的心态。

And so if you can just change the mindset to match the skill set, you've already made a giant leap.

因此，如果您能够改变心态以适应技能组合，那么您就已经取得了巨大的飞跃。

And you do that by reducing the stakes in your mind and by just speaking.

你可以通过减少心中的赌注并通过说话来做到这一点。

And as you do that, when you're thinking out loud, you have these moments of connecting things in your mind, and then naturally it pops out.

当你这样做时，当你大声思考时，你会在脑海中将事物联系起来，然后自然而然地就会浮现出来。

Tristan de Montebello: And if you're doing it well...

Tristan de Montebello：如果你做得很好......

And I love, there's a really cool Naval Ravikant interview on the Joe Rogan Podcast from many years ago that's phenomenal.

我喜欢，多年前乔·罗根播客上有一篇非常酷的 Naval Ravikant 采访，非常精彩。

And at one point he talks about communication, if I'm not mistaken.

如果我没记错的话，他有一次谈到了沟通。

I think it's on that podcast.

我想这是在那个播客上。

But he says something along the lines of, "One should discover the words they are saying at the same time their audience is." And this comes back to thinking out loud, like if I'm really in my mind, I'm making connections, and suddenly the words are the consequence of it.

但他说了这样的话：“人们应该在听众所在的同时发现他们所说的话。”这又回到了大声思考，就像我真的在心里，我正在建立联系，突然间，这些话就是它的结果。

Tristan de Montebello: So using prompts, poking your brain, giving these cues naturally creates things that you couldn't have anticipated otherwise.

Tristan de Montebello：所以使用提示，刺激你的大脑，给出这些提示自然会创造出你无法预料到的东西。

It's like putting constraints on a creative project.

这就像对一个创意项目施加限制。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love that.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢这个。

Before we segue to a couple of these methods, the Accordion Method is one example, I want to ask about, when people hear this, they may feel like you're helping people more, just like make shit up, and why, why would we want that?

在我们继续讨论这些方法之前，手风琴方法是一个例子，我想问一下，当人们听到这个时，他们可能会觉得你在帮助别人更多，就像胡编乱造一样，为什么，为什么我们想要这样？

Talk about just how this isn't just like, you're not going to actually give talks like this necessarily.

谈谈这到底是怎么回事，你不一定会真正进行这样的演讲。

This is...

这是...

And I guess I'm answering the question, but I'm curious if that's how you think about it.

我想我正在回答这个问题，但我很好奇你是否是这么想的。

This is building a skill so that when you actually want to give a real talk that you've prepared, you are better at it.

这是在培养一种技能，这样当你真正想要进行一场你准备好的真正演讲时，你就能做得更好。

But yeah, just thoughts on just that potential element.

但是，是的，只是考虑那个潜在的元素。

Tristan de Montebello: Yeah, I think that's an important question, and it's a question I hear a lot because we all know a bullshitter, and that's the person who masters the skill of communication but doesn't have anything to show for it.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：是的，我认为这是一个重要的问题，我经常听到这个问题，因为我们都知道胡说八道，他们掌握了沟通技巧，但没有任何表现。

Tristan de Montebello: And so this thing happens, is that I see bullshitter and I think to myself, I really, really don't want to become that person.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：所以这件事发生了，我看到了胡言乱语，我对自己说，我真的、真的不想成为那样的人。

And what happens is it becomes an immune response or like an immune response where the desire not to be that person and the feeling being around that person gives you is so strong that now if I take even the smallest step in that direction of speaking freely, sharing my thoughts out loud, bringing more conviction or confidence to what I'm saying, not leaking, then there's this immediate response like an immune response in my body that's just too strong, that's saying, "Uh oh, you're becoming the bullshitter.

所发生的情况是，它变成了一种免疫反应，或者像一种免疫反应，不想成为那个人的愿望和在那个人周围的感觉给你如此强烈，以至于现在如果我朝着自由发言、大声分享我的想法、给我所说的话带来更多信念或信心而不是泄漏的方向迈出哪怕是最小的一步，那么就会有这种立即反应，就像我体内的免疫反应一样，太强烈了，那就是说，“呃哦，你变成了胡说八道。

Alarm bells.

警钟长鸣。

Alarm bells.

警钟长鸣。

Go back to that safe little corner you were in."

回到你原来所在的那个安全的小角落。”

Tristan de Montebello: But the reality is, if you're thinking that, then you have no chance of becoming a bullshitter.

Tristan de Montebello：但现实是，如果你这么想，那么你就没有机会成为一个胡言乱语者。

Because if that thought is even popping into your mind, then you're the type of person who has developed a very acute skill set of noticing when people bullshit.

因为如果这种想法突然出现在你的脑海中，那么你就是那种已经发展出一种非常敏锐的技能的人，可以注意到人们在胡说八道。

And you have that same skill set for yourself.

您自己也拥有同样的技能。

So it's just going to be, now it's just too loud.

所以，现在的声音太大了。

Tristan de Montebello: So as we go through this practice, we want to match, "Hey, I want to match that bullshitter's level of communication, except I'm going to have the ideas to back it up.

Tristan de Montebello：因此，当我们进行这种练习时，我们想要匹配，“嘿，我想匹配那个胡言乱语的沟通水平，但我要有想法来支持它。

I'm going to really put effort into my craft, but I'm going to be able to show them in the best possible light." And what we want to be able to do is notice, okay, if this is a big thing for you, the bullshitting, and you're noticing a big reaction, just even listening to us, not even playing the games yourself, then you definitely benefit from calming that voice down.

我将真正在我的技艺上付出努力，但我将能够以尽可能最好的方式展示它们。”我们想要做的是注意，好吧，如果这对你来说是一件大事，胡说八道，并且你注意到了很大的反应，甚至只是听我们说话，甚至没有自己玩游戏，那么你肯定会从平静那个声音中受益。

So spending time learning these skill sets, because you're most likely atrophied because you're staying away from it.

因此，花时间学习这些技能，因为你很可能会因为远离它而萎缩。

And you're going to have this very powerful listener in the back of your mind that's going to ping you, and it's like, "Hey, you're at the limit right now.

你的内心深处将会有一个非常强大的倾听者，它会向你发出警告，就像是，“嘿，你现在已经达到了极限。

Stay true to what you know." And it's going to be a very good compass for yourself.

忠于你所知道的。”这对你来说将是一个非常好的指南针。

It's going to be there and you can trust it because you developed this capacity.

它会在那里，你可以相信它，因为你发展了这种能力。

Awesome.

惊人的。

That's really helpful.: Okay.

这真的很有帮助。：好的。

So, so far we've shared a bunch of techniques, things that you could just start doing today.

到目前为止，我们已经分享了一系列技巧，您今天就可以开始做。

We've done all these fun games that you could play online.

我们已经完成了所有这些您可以在线玩的有趣游戏。

If nothing else, just learning from the techniques these games teach you I think is really helpful.

如果没有别的事，我认为学习这些游戏教给你的技术真的很有帮助。

You've shared a bunch of principles of just like, here's how you actually get better at public speaking, and not this way, but that way.

您分享了一系列原则，例如，这就是您如何真正提高公开演讲的方法，不是这样，而是那样。

Awesome.

惊人的。

That's really helpful.: I know you have a couple also methods just like that people can implement that helps them develop talks that I found really helpful.

这真的很有帮助。：我知道你们还有一些方法，就像人们可以实施的那样，帮助他们开展我认为非常有帮助的演讲。

So maybe just as a closing, we talk about these two methods, the Accordion Method, and I think it's the Bow and Arrow Method?

所以也许作为结束语，我们谈论这两种方法，手风琴方法，我认为这是弓箭方法？

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

Let's talk about the Accordion Method.

我们来谈谈手风琴方法。

We did this in the class briefly, and it was really helpful, and I've been explaining it to people of just like a really cool way of making your talk better.

我们在课堂上简单地做了这个，这真的很有帮助，我一直在向人们解释它，就像一种让你的演讲更好的非常酷的方法。

So talk about how that works and how people might be able to implement it when they're trying to develop the talk.

因此，请谈谈它是如何运作的，以及人们在尝试展开演讲时如何能够实施它。

Tristan de Montebello: Now, I'm biased when I'm going to say this, so take this with a pinch of salt, but I think the Accordion Method, the Accordion Method might be one of the things I'm the most proud of in my entire life because it's almost revolutionizing the way I think we should prepare speaking.

Tristan de Montebello：现在，当我要这么说时，我有偏见，所以对此持保留态度，但我认为手风琴方法，手风琴方法可能是我一生中最自豪的事情之一，因为它几乎彻底改变了我认为我们应该准备演讲的方式。

Tristan de Montebello: So up until now, we've talked about spontaneous speaking mostly, and that's going to be the vast majority of your speaking.

Tristan de Montebello：到目前为止，我们主要讨论的是即兴演讲，这将是您演讲的绝大多数内容。

Probably 80% of your speaking is stuff that you can't prepare for.

也许你的演讲中有 80% 是你无法准备的内容。

But there are going to be situations where you know you have a deadline and you're going to have to speak.

但在某些情况下，您知道自己有最后期限，并且必须发言。

And either you have to speak because it's a job interview, or you're talking to your CEO, or maybe you're presenting to your whole team or an audience of a thousand.

要么你必须发言，因为这是一次工作面试，要么你正在与你的首席执行官交谈，或者你可能正在向你的整个团队或一千名观众进行演示。

Tristan de Montebello: The old way I think is shitty.

Tristan de Montebello：我认为旧的方式很糟糕。

I think it's broken, and I haven't found anything out there that is innovating on this.

我认为它已经被破坏了，而且我还没有发现任何对此进行创新的东西。

And it drove us crazy with Michael, and that's what gave birth to the Accordion Method.

这让我们对迈克尔感到疯狂，这就是手风琴方法的诞生。

What's the old way?

老办法是什么？

The old way is I have a talk coming up, so I'm going to dump all of my ideas on a piece of paper or multiple pieces of paper.

老方法是我要进行一场演讲，所以我会把我所有的想法都写在一张或多张纸上。

Then I'm going to try rearranging those ideas.

然后我将尝试重新整理这些想法。

And as I'm rearranging the ideas and trying to make them in a talk, I have more inspiration.

当我重新整理这些想法并尝试将它们纳入演讲中时，我获得了更多灵感。

And I'm thinking, oh, maybe I could say it this way, and I don't want to lose that other thing that I said in the beginning because maybe I would use it.

我在想，哦，也许我可以这样说，我不想失去我一开始说的其他东西，因为也许我会使用它。

Tristan de Montebello: And you start just creating this alien stack of paper with all of your ideas of what your talk might be, and then you're left with 10, 15 pieces of paper.

Tristan de Montebello：然后你开始用你对演讲内容的所有想法创建这一叠陌生的纸，然后你就剩下 10 到 15 张纸。

And now as the deadline comes closer, what do you have to do?

现在随着截止日期的临近，你必须做什么？

Well, you have to go through the excruciating pain of turning 10 pages into a script so that you don't forget all of those brilliant lines that you spent so many hours editing.

好吧，你必须经历将 10 页变成剧本的痛苦，这样你才不会忘记你花了这么多时间编辑的所有精彩台词。

And they're still in writing mode.

而且他们仍处于写作模式。

They're not in your mind.

他们不在你的心里。

Tristan de Montebello: So now that I've created that script that I spent a lot of time editing, now I have to memorize it.

Tristan de Montebello：现在我已经创建了我花了很多时间编辑的脚本，现在我必须记住它。

And memorization is pretty.

而且记忆力也很好。

We're not good at memorization.

我们不擅长记忆。

Robots are good at memorization, humans are not.

机器人擅长记忆，而人类则不然。

And memorization is like a chain where you just have all of these links very linearly.

记忆就像一条链条，所有这些链接都非常线性。

And everybody knows the feeling of going through, reciting a poem as a kid, and suddenly you miss one verse and you're lost, and now you're a deer in the headlights.

每个人都知道小时候背诵一首诗的感觉，突然你错过了一首诗，你迷失了方向，现在你就像一头在车灯下的鹿。

Tristan de Montebello: So what we're doing with the Accordion Method is instead of preparing our talk by writing, we're going to prepare our talk by speaking, and we're going to do so in a very specific way where we're going down the accordion to create extreme clarity, and to understand what the essence of our talk is, and then back up the accordion to bring back in intentionally just the right pieces.

Tristan de Montebello：因此，我们使用手风琴方法所做的不是通过写作来准备我们的演讲，而是通过演讲来准备我们的演讲，我们将以一种非常具体的方式来做到这一点，我们将用手风琴来创造极端的清晰度，并理解我们演讲的本质是什么，然后支持手风琴，有意地带回正确的片段。

Tristan de Montebello: So I was thinking of an analogy for this, and one that I really like is imagine you're redecorating your living room.

Tristan de Montebello：所以我想到了一个类比，我真正喜欢的一个类比是想象你正在重新装修你的客厅。

The old way, the writing 10 pages and memorizing it is I'm going to look at my living room and I'm going to rearrange things and put stuff in a corner that I might need later.

老方法，写 10 页并记住它是我要看看我的客厅，我要重新安排东西并将东西放在我以后可能需要的角落里。

And then I'm going to bring some new things that I thought could be really nice and I'm going to struggle to make something work.

然后我会带来一些我认为非常好的新东西，我会努力让一些东西发挥作用。

Tristan de Montebello: The Accordion Method is saying, and imagine this were easy to do with furniture, I'm going to take everything out of my living room except the most essential pieces that make my living room.

Tristan de Montebello：手风琴方法是说，想象一下用家具很容易做到这一点，我要把客厅里的所有东西都拿出来，除了构成我客厅的最重要的部分。

So I might be left with that one couch that I really love, a pillow, a beautiful light that I bought three years ago, and one or two other small things.

所以我可能会留下一张我真正喜欢的沙发、一个枕头、三年前买的一盏漂亮的灯，以及其他一两件小东西。

And as I look at that, I'm going to have clarity on the vision I want for my living room.

当我看到它时，我就会清楚地了解我想要的客厅的愿景。

And then very slowly, very intentionally, I'm going to go take certain elements that were already there that I might want to bring back in, and I'm going to bring new elements that now I see make sense.

然后非常缓慢地、非常有意地，我将采取某些已经存在的、我可能想要带回来的元素，并且我将引入现在我认为有意义的新元素。

And so by the time you finish with your beautiful living room, it's going to be this beautiful minimalistic room that has a very clear design choice, and every element there is there because you chose it.

因此，当您完成美丽的客厅时，这将是一个美丽的简约房间，具有非常明确的设计选择，并且其中的每个元素都是因为您选择了它。

It's there because you did it very intentionally.

它在那里是因为你非常有意地这样做。

Tristan de Montebello: So how does that work with the Accordion Method?

Tristan de Montebello：那么手风琴方法如何发挥作用呢？

What we do is you can go through the first step.

我们所做的就是您可以完成第一步。

If you want, you can write all of those ideas on paper just to get them out of your head.

如果您愿意，您可以将所有这些想法写在纸上，以便将它们从您的脑海中清除。

That's totally fine.

那完全没问题。

But from this moment on, there's no more script.

但从这一刻起，就没有剧本了。

And I'm just going to give an example of times, but you can change these time constraints slightly.

我只是给出一个时间示例，但是您可以稍微更改这些时间限制。

We're going down the accordion by using time constraints.

我们要利用时间限制来拉手风琴。

So for example, you would say, "I'm going to speak for three minutes." So you're going to put a timer, and you have two rules.

例如，你会说：“我要讲三分钟。”所以你要设置一个计时器，并且有两条规则。

I have to stay in character the whole time and I have to end strong.

我必须始终保持本色，并且必须坚强地结束。

So you must make it to the end of the three minutes, and it doesn't matter how bad it sounds, how many mistakes you make.

所以你必须坚持到三分钟结束，无论听起来多么糟糕，无论你犯了多少错误。

The only point here is I'm trying to get my ideas out into spoken word.

这里唯一的一点是我试图将我的想法变成口头语言。

So I'm starting to populate my mind with everything and seeing where am I actually at.

所以我开始用一切来填充我的大脑，看看我到底在哪里。

Tristan de Montebello: Then after the three minutes, you think of, okay, what did I like, what didn't I like?

Tristan de Montebello：三分钟后，你会想，好吧，我喜欢什么，不喜欢什么？

Then you go to two minutes.

然后你就去两分钟。

And you put a timer and you do two minutes again.

然后你设置一个计时器，然后再做两分钟。

And you're very strict with those two minutes, because we're just trying to learn something every time.

你对这两分钟的要求非常严格，因为我们每次都只是想学习一些东西。

It doesn't need to be perfect.

它不需要是完美的。

So at the two-minute mark, you do the same thing, but now you had to shave a whole minute out of that content.

因此，在两分钟的时候，你做了同样的事情，但现在你必须从该内容中删除一整分钟。

And as you do that, well, that means getting rid of the noise, getting rid of anything that doesn't feel right.

当你这样做时，嗯，这意味着摆脱噪音，摆脱任何感觉不对劲的东西。

Tristan de Montebello: Then you go down to one minute.

Tristan de Montebello：然后你就缩短到一分钟。

And you're going to go down all way to 30 seconds.

你会一直下降到 30 秒。

So you started at a three-minute speech and you make your way down to 30 seconds.

所以你从三分钟的演讲开始，然后逐渐减少到 30 秒。

By the time you make it to 30 seconds, you're going to have only the essential pieces like that couch and that lamp in the living room.

当你坚持到 30 秒时，你将只剩下必要的部件，比如客厅里的沙发和台灯。

When you have the essential pieces, you're going to have a clear sense of what your talk is about, and it might've changed as you-

当你掌握了必要的部分后，你就会清楚地了解你的演讲的内容，并且它可能会随着你的改变而改变——

Tristan de Montebello: Sense of what your talk is about and it might've changed as you were going down the accordion.

Tristan de Montebello：当你拉手风琴时，你的演讲内容可能会发生变化。

And then from that place on, we're going to do another 30 second rep and then we're going to go back up the accordion.

然后从那个地方开始，我们将再做一次 30 秒的重复，然后我们将重新拉起手风琴。

So you do another 30 seconds and then you do one minute, two minute, and all the way back up to three minute.

所以你再做 30 秒，然后做一分钟、两分钟，一直回到三分钟。

And every step of the way you go from 30 seconds to a minute.

每一步的时间从 30 秒到一分钟不等。

Initially, a minute felt hard.

最初，一分钟感觉很难。

Now that's double the time you just had.

现在这是你刚才的时间的两倍。

So you can bring in something that's aligned with the talk you want to share, and then two minutes, same.

所以你可以引入一些与你想要分享的演讲相一致的内容，然后同样的两分钟。

And then when you get to three minutes, one of my clients once said that it felt like he had a football field in his mind.

然后当你到达三分钟时，我的一位客户曾经说过，感觉他脑子里有一个足球场。

So much space.

这么大的空间。

And now whatever talk you have left there is a very clear, intentional talk.

现在无论你留下什么谈话，都是一个非常明确、有意的谈话。

Tristan de Montebello: And not only that, and this is why this is such an incredible method, your talk is now internalized.

Tristan de Montebello：不仅如此，这就是为什么这是一个令人难以置信的方法，你的演讲现在已经内化了。

So you're at the stage of I've written a script that I've painfully edited in the old way that you now still have to memorize and it's a written speech that you're going to have to pretend to give in a spoken way.

所以你正处于这样的阶段：我已经写了一个剧本，我用旧的方式痛苦地编辑了它，你现在仍然必须记住它，这是一个书面演讲，你必须假装以口头方式发表。

In this case you're there, but it's already completely internalized, not even memorized.

在这种情况下，你就在那里，但它已经完全内化了，甚至没有被记住。

It's internalized.

它已内化。

You have these pillars, you know where you're going and by the time you make it through the accordion method, you're basically ready to go give it on stage.

你有了这些支柱，你知道你要去哪里，当你通过手风琴方法时，你基本上已经准备好在舞台上表演了。

Tristan de Montebello: But you could give it now in one minutes, two minutes, three minutes, five minutes.

Tristan de Montebello：但是你现在可以在一分钟、两分钟、三分钟、五分钟内给出。

It's very plastic.

它非常塑料。

You're going to be able to navigate different time frames.

您将能够浏览不同的时间范围。

It's not going to really matter if you make a mistake because you're going to have a deep sense of what your speech is.

即使你犯了错误也没关系，因为你会对自己的演讲内容有深刻的认识。

It's not memorized, it's internalized.

它不是被记住的，而是被内化的。

So not only have you gotten clarity and built out your speech in a very intentional way, but by the time you get to the end of it, you also actually know it and you're ready to perform it.

因此，你不仅变得清晰并以一种非常有意的方式构建了你的演讲，而且当你结束演讲时，你也实际上知道了它并且你已经准备好表演它。

Lenny Rachitsky: That example of the three minute when you come back up the accordion, that's exactly how it felt when I did this is just like, "Wow, so much time now" because you essentially, the way I think about it is you concentrate it to the best, most important nuggets and then you have time to build on those nuggets and you cut out all the stuff that no one really cares about, which is usually a long introduction, just like now just get to the good stuff and then you expand the good stuff.

Lenny Rachitsky：当你重新拉起手风琴时的三分钟的例子，这正是我这样做时的感觉，就像，“哇，现在有这么多时间”，因为从本质上讲，我思考的方式是你将其集中到最好的，最重要的金块上，然后你有时间在这些金块的基础上进行构建，然后你删除所有没有人真正关心的东西，这通常是一个很长的介绍，就像现在只介绍好东西然后你扩展好东西。

And it really worked for me and it was a really illuminating experience.

它确实对我有用，而且是一次非常有启发性的经历。

Lenny Rachitsky: For someone that wants to actually use this.

Lenny Rachitsky：对于那些想要实际使用它的人。

Say they have a speech coming up, say they're doing an all hands presentation in a week.

假设他们要进行一场演讲，假设他们将在一周内进行一次全体会议的演讲。

Do you do this a week ahead of time?

你会提前一周做这件事吗？

Do you do this a few days before?

你是在几天前这样做的吗？

I guess where do you fit this in the workflow so that you actually remember what you want to say when it comes time?

我想你应该把它放在工作流程中的什么位置，这样你才能真正记住自己想说的话？

Tristan de Montebello: I can't say do it exactly a week or two weeks or it really depends how well familiar you are with the content.

Tristan de Montebello：我不能说一周或两周就可以完成，或者这实际上取决于您对内容的熟悉程度。

If you have an all hands, and this is something that you've been hashing with your executive team over the past two months, you probably know it really, really well and you have a lot of clarity and now it's just about organizing it nicely.

如果你全员参与，并且这是你在过去两个月里与你的执行团队一直在讨论的事情，你可能非常非常了解它，并且你有很多清晰度，现在只需要把它很好地组织起来。

So in that case, maybe you want to do a rough go through the accordion a week ahead of time so you have a clear sense of, "What is it that I want my audience to remember and what are the pillars that I know I like to hit that feel really good?"

因此，在这种情况下，也许您想提前一周对手风琴进行一次粗略的练习，以便您有一个清晰的感觉：“我希望我的观众记住什么？我知道我喜欢敲击感觉真的很好的支柱是什么？”

Tristan de Montebello: So you can think about these as the foundational pillars that support that one thing that you're sharing or bookmarks that I know I have to hit and then what I would like to do.

Tristan de Montebello：所以你可以将这些视为支持你正在分享的一件事的基本支柱，或者是我知道我必须点击的书签，然后是我想做的事情。

And so that's what I would write down.

这就是我要写下的内容。

I wouldn't write a script.

我不会写剧本。

I'd write those down.

我会把这些写下来。

And then before the all hands, maybe the day before, maybe even the morning of, depending on how important this is or how comfortable you feel, then you might go through just one or two reps of it, but now you already know it, so it should come back very, very quickly in your mind.

然后在全体手之前，也许是前一天，甚至可能是早上，取决于这有多重要或你感觉有多舒服，然后你可能只会重复一两次，但现在你已经知道了，所以它应该很快就会回到你的脑海中。

Lenny Rachitsky: And it sounds like it's okay to have some bullet points at the end.

Lenny Rachitsky：听起来最后有一些要点是可以的。

It's hard for me to imagine going on stage with a bunch of people watching, not have any slide, bullet point, speaker notes.

我很难想象在一群人观看的情况下登上舞台，没有任何幻灯片、要点和演讲者笔记。

Any problems just having a couple of the bullet points of core points next to me?

如果我旁边有几个核心要点，有什么问题吗？

Tristan de Montebello: Before a talk, I might have four things written down.

Tristan de Montebello：在演讲之前，我可能会写下四件事。

My one thing, and we'll talk about this in the bow and arrow, my one thing, the one thing I want people to remember and then the three bookmarks or pillars that I want to hit.

我的一件事，我们将在弓和箭中讨论这一点，我的一件事，我希望人们记住的一件事，然后是我想要击中的三个书签或柱子。

And these are kind of cues or reminders that are going to send me into that part of the speech.

这些是某种暗示或提醒，将引导我进入演讲的那一部分。

So for example, if I'm talking about the accordion method, like what I just said, if I go back and I think through the pillars of this one.

举例来说，如果我正在谈论手风琴方法，就像我刚才所说的那样，如果我回去思考这个方法的支柱。

Well, my one thing would be the accordion method is more powerful than memorizing and then doing it the old way.

好吧，我的一件事是手风琴方法比死记硬背然后用旧方法更强大。

Tristan de Montebello: And then my bookmarks might be number one, describe the old way or the old way.

Tristan de Montebello：然后我的书签可能是第一，描述旧方式或旧方式。

Number two, the new way or the accordion method.

第二，新方法或手风琴方法。

And then number three might be internalize, don't memorize, and that'll be kind of the takeaway.

第三点可能是内化，不要死记硬背，这就是要点。

Tristan de Montebello: And if I have that in my mind, if I have 30 seconds, I can say the old way sucks because you have to work so hard and memorize everything and you're memorizing written stuff, the accordion method is much more powerful because you are going to compress it and go down and then open it up and then I'll explain that in a second and then I'll say, so you're internalized not memorized.

Tristan de Montebello：如果我心里有这个想法，如果我有 30 秒，我可以说旧的方法很糟糕，因为你必须非常努力地记住所有内容，而且你要记住书面内容，手风琴方法更强大，因为你要压缩它并向下然后打开它，然后我会在一秒钟内解释这一点，然后我会说，所以你是内化而不是记忆。

What I realized right now is actually, it's funny enough though, those were the bookmarks there, so that sent me down that path.

我现在意识到的是，实际上，这很有趣，那些是那里的书签，所以这让我走上了这条路。

But actually I would say bookmark number two is probably the living room analogy.

但实际上我想说第二个书签可能是客厅的类比。

So it would be the old way sucks, the living room analogy, and then describe the accordion method.

所以这将是旧的方式很糟糕，客厅类比，然后描述手风琴的方法。

Lenny Rachitsky: That's cool.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：那很酷。

That was an awesome example of just the insights that appear by forcing yourself through this exercise.

这是一个很棒的例子，说明了通过强迫自己完成这个练习而获得的见解。

And it sounds like maybe the best use of this method is if you have a talk all of a sudden short term it's coming, all of a sudden you have to give a talk somewhere.

听起来也许这种方法的最佳用途是，如果你突然有一个演讲，短期内它即将到来，突然你必须在某个地方发表演讲。

There's a really powerful method to come up with a great talk that's maybe tomorrow, which you didn't expect.

有一种非常强大的方法可以在明天发表一场你意想不到的精彩演讲。

Tristan de Montebello: When I say I love this, I use this for myself, I use this with every single client I work with regardless of if it's a five-minute talk, a 20-minute keynote, we're using the accordion method, and you can use this at the macro level or at the micro level, so you can use it for the whole talk, but you can also say, "Hey, let's hone in on this part one that you're struggling with or part two and let's use the accordion to get clarity there."

Tristan de Montebello：当我说我喜欢这个时，我自己用它，我对每一个与我合作的客户都使用它，无论是五分钟的演讲，还是20分钟的主题演讲，我们使用手风琴方法，你可以在宏观层面或微观层面使用它，所以你可以在整个演讲中使用它，但你也可以说，“嘿，让我们专注于你正在努力解决的第一部分或第二部分，然后让我们用手风琴来澄清一下。”

Tristan de Montebello: So you can use the accordion as almost like a brainstorming way.

Tristan de Montebello：所以你可以像头脑风暴一样使用手风琴。

I just want to see where I end up here and it takes maybe 15 minutes or something to go through a full accordion.

我只是想看看我会在这里结束什么，大概需要 15 分钟左右才能完成完整的手风琴。

It depends the time constraints you give yourself.

这取决于你给自己的时间限制。

Sometimes I'll just do two minute, one minute 30 seconds, that's even shorter, but I'll go through it for one piece of the puzzle or it's like, "Hey, we're almost there.

有时我只会做两分钟，一分钟 30 秒，甚至更短，但我会完成拼图的一块，或者就像，“嘿，我们快到了。

Let's really internalize it.

让我们真正内化它。

Let's clarify this.

让我们澄清一下这一点。

Let's get it really, really tight." And then I might say, "Okay, now let's do the whole thing through the accordion.

让我们把它搞得非常非常紧。”然后我可能会说：“好吧，现在让我们通过手风琴完成整个事情。

So your 20-minute talk, I want to hear it in three minutes." That gets really, really interesting.

所以你20分钟的演讲，我想在三分钟内听完。”这真的非常非常有趣。

Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

Okay.

好的。

Anything else along the accordion method before we talk about the final technique before we wrap up?

在我们结束之前讨论最后的技术之前，手风琴方法还有什么其他内容吗？

Tristan de Montebello: We have a full self-paced course on ultra speaking on the accordion.

Tristan de Montebello：我们有一个关于手风琴超级演讲的完整自定进度课程。

I think it costs like 30 bucks or something like that to access all of the games and all the platforms.

我认为访问所有游戏和所有平台需要花费 30 美元或类似的费用。

A bunch of them are free, but I think this one's behind the paywall.

其中很多都是免费的，但我认为这个是付费的。

But we also put together a resource where we go all the way, we describe all of the accordion method, the bow and arrow, staying character ending strong on a free email course that we put together.

但我们还整合了一个资源，我们一路走来，在我们整合的免费电子邮件课程中描述了所有的手风琴方法、弓和箭、保持性格的结尾。

That's ultraspeaking.com/Lenny.

这是 ultraspeaking.com/Lenny。

So this is shameless self-promotion, but if you want it to go grab it there, you can grab it there and then the bow and arrow is going to tie into the accordion method as well.

所以这是无耻的自我推销，但是你想让它去那里抢，你就去那里抢，然后弓箭也会和手风琴方法结合起来。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

I'm glad you mentioned all that and we'll point people to that URL in the show notes.

我很高兴您提到了所有这些，我们将在节目注释中向人们指出该 URL。

Okay, final topic is the bow and arrow technique.

好了，最后一个话题是弓箭技术。

Let's talk about what that is and how folks can use that to give better talks.

让我们谈谈这是什么以及人们如何利用它来进行更好的演讲。

Tristan de Montebello: The bow and arrow starts with a, it's really a mindset shift that most of us are in the weeds, so we're very sensitive and familiar to all of the content that we're working on.

Tristan de Montebello：弓和箭以a开头，这确实是我们大多数人都处于困境中的心态转变，所以我们对我们正在处理的所有内容都非常敏感和熟悉。

If you're in data, then you have all of the data.

如果您身处数据之中，那么您就拥有所有数据。

If you're sharing ideas, you still have all of the ideas.

如果您正在分享想法，那么您仍然拥有所有想法。

And the mistake that most people do when they're preparing a talk, a presentation, an all hands a meeting, whatever it is we tend to focus more on what we want to say than what we want our audience to remember.

大多数人在准备演讲、演示、全体会议时都会犯的错误，无论是什么，我们往往更关注我们想说的内容，而不是我们希望观众记住的内容。

So the mindset shift here is stop focusing as much on what you want to say and focus more on what you want your audience to remember.

因此，这里的心态转变是停止过多关注您想说的内容，而更多地关注您希望观众记住的内容。

Tristan de Montebello: What we found out is if you think about your last all hands, the last big meeting, the last talk you saw on YouTube or in person, you probably don't remember much.

Tristan de Montebello：我们发现，如果您回想一下最后一次全体会议、最后一次大型会议、最后一次在 YouTube 上或亲自观看的演讲，您可能不会记得太多。

In fact, I wager you might only remember one thing from that talk.

事实上，我打赌你可能只记得那次演讲中的一件事。

And that's what this is all based on.

这就是这一切的基础。

We call it the bow and arrow technique because we think you can only remember one thing out of a talk and that it's very powerful to go through that framework or that kind of thinking when you're building a talk.

我们称其为弓箭技术，因为我们认为你只能记住演讲中的一件事，并且当你构建演讲时，通过该框架或这种思维非常强大。

And the one thing is your arrow.

而一件事就是你的箭头。

And so when you have that one thing to me I say it's literally a single sentence that is the only sentence people would remember if they left your talk.

因此，当你对我说一件事时，我会说这实际上是一个句子，这是人们在离开你的演讲后会记住的唯一一句话。

Would you be satisfied with that sentence?

你对这句话满意吗？

Tristan de Montebello: It takes some times to get to a good one, but if you have a good one, it unlocks everything.

Tristan de Montebello：需要花费一些时间才能达到一个好的目标，但如果你拥有一个好的目标，它就会解锁一切。

It's like you're having a north star or a compass in your pocket.

这就像你的口袋里有一颗北极星或一个指南针。

You can always pull it out.

你随时可以把它拉出来。

You always know where you're going.

你总是知道你要去哪里。

It gives you a lot of clarity.

它给你很多清晰度。

It's also giving a lot of clarity to your audience obviously.

显然，它也为您的观众提供了很多清晰度。

Tristan de Montebello: But you can't just throw an arrow at somebody's face.

Tristan de Montebello：但是你不能直接向某人的脸扔箭。

You need to notch it in the bow and pull the bow back.

您需要在弓上切开它并将弓拉回来。

And so to pull the bow back, you need to add in weight to that sentence.

因此，要拉回弓，你需要增加这句话的分量。

And that often comes in the form of an interesting anecdote or a data point that's going to support that or a story that's going to add emotion or illustrate it.

这通常以有趣的轶事或支持该轶事的数据点或增加情感或说明情感的故事的形式出现。

So you want to find ways in which you can give weight or pull back the bow so that your arrow has that much more impact.

因此，您需要找到增加重量或拉回弓的方法，以便您的箭具有更大的影响力。

So usually the process of clarifying what your arrow is is a back and forth between the bow and the arrows.

所以通常来说，弄清楚你的箭是什么的过程就是弓和箭之间的来回。

So if you're going down the accordion method after the first one you might write or before the first one, you might write a tentative arrow, "Here's my one thing", and then the next one you say, "Okay, actually my one thing might be a refined version of that."

因此，如果你在你可能写的第一个方法之后或第一个方法之前使用手风琴方法，你可能会写一个试探性的箭头，“这是我的一件事”，然后你说下一个，“好吧，实际上我的一件事可能是它的改进版本。”

Tristan de Montebello: And so you might rewrite it a little bit and then you might tentatively put in what you think the bow is.

Tristan de Montebello：所以你可能会稍微重写一下，然后你可能会尝试性地输入你认为的弓是什么。

"I like the anecdote I used here.

“我喜欢我在这里使用的轶事。

I like this data point that I thought was powerful and maybe I can end on this story or this call to action." Then you'll put that in and then you go back in and you give that a try and that's starting to simplify in your mind.

我喜欢这个我认为很有影响力的数据点，也许我可以以这个故事或这个号召性用语来结束。”然后你会把它放进去，然后你再回去尝试一下，你的脑海里就会开始简化。

Tristan de Montebello: And as you go, usually one informs the other.

Tristan de Montebello：当你走的时候，通常一个人会通知另一个人。

By the time you finish the accordion for example, you should have a very clear arrow and those clear bookmarks, which is the bow.

例如，当您完成手风琴时，您应该有一个非常清晰的箭头和那些清晰的书签，这就是弓。

But really the thing to remember with the bow and arrow, if you can only remember one thing, is switch your mindset from what I want to say to what I want people to remember and limit whatever that is you want them to remember as much as possible and that's going to give you extreme clarity.

但是，如果你只能记住一件事，那么用弓和箭真正要记住的事情就是将你的思维方式从我想说的话转变为我希望人们记住的内容，并尽可能限制你希望他们记住的内容，这会让你非常清晰。

Lenny Rachitsky: That is really helpful.

Lenny Rachitsky：这真的很有帮助。

I'm preparing my talk for the summit, and so I'm going to use both of these exercises and what I take away from this last piece is as much as you may want to say a lot of things, really all someone's going to remember, as you said is one thing, if anything, but hopefully they remember that one thing.

我正在准备我的峰会演讲，所以我将使用这两个练习，我从最后一篇文章中学到的东西与你可能想说的很多事情一样多，实际上所有的人都会记住，正如你所说的是一件事，如果有的话，但希望他们记住那一件事。

Lenny Rachitsky: So it's essentially what's the one thing you want people to remember and then what are the pieces of support that will convince them that that's right and that's something that'll stick with them?

Lenny Rachitsky：所以本质上来说，你希望人们记住的一件事是什么，然后哪些支持可以让他们相信这是正确的，并且会让他们坚持下去？

Tristan de Montebello: Exactly.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：没错。

And again, similar to the accordion method, this works in the macro and the micro.

再次，与手风琴方法类似，这在宏观和微观上都有效。

So if you have a talk where you're using slides, use it for the whole talk.

因此，如果您在演讲中使用幻灯片，请在整个演讲中使用幻灯片。

But then for every single slide, ask yourself what is my one thing?

但对于每一张幻灯片，问问自己我的一件事是什么？

And you might have some support there as well, but if you don't have a one thing for each slide, either the slide shouldn't exist or it should be multiple slides.

您也可能在那里得到一些支持，但如果您没有为每张幻灯片提供一件事，则该幻灯片不应该存在，或者应该是多张幻灯片。

Tristan de Montebello: The symptom of not having a one thing is usually having a slide that says way too many things.

Tristan de Montebello：没有一件事的症状通常是一张幻灯片说了太多的事情。

I don't know what data point I want you to remember, so I'm going to put all of it on that slide.

我不知道我希望您记住什么数据点，所以我将把所有内容都放在幻灯片上。

I'm not sure which piece of information is more important.

我不确定哪一条信息更重要。

So I'm going to write down all of my thoughts and I'm going to go through all of them or hope that you go through all of them and extract what you think is interesting.

因此，我将写下我所有的想法，并且我将浏览所有这些想法，或者希望您浏览所有这些想法并提取您认为有趣的内容。

But the reality is people are just going to zone out if you do that.

但现实是，如果你这样做，人们就会走神。

So if you do that slide by slide, you're going to gain incredible clarity and again, you're going to need less preparation and less memorization.

因此，如果你一张一张地做，你将获得令人难以置信的清晰度，而且你将需要更少的准备和更少的记忆。

Lenny Rachitsky: And to build on that, a pro-tip is to make that title of that slide exactly that one thing you want them to take away.

Lenny Rachitsky：在此基础上，一个专业建议是让幻灯片的标题恰好成为您希望他们拿走的东西。

Just put it there and tell them exactly what you want them to learn.

只需将其放在那里并准确地告诉他们您希望他们学习什么即可。

Lenny Rachitsky: Sweet.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太好了。

Tristan, we've been on a journey.

特里斯坦，我们一直在旅行。

This was a really unique experimental episode.

这是一次非常独特的实验。

I had a good time even though I did some hard things, you made me do hard things that are good for me.

我过得很开心，尽管我做了一些困难的事情，但你让我做了对我有好处的困难事情。

Is there anything else you want to share before we get to our very exciting lightning round?

在我们开始激动人心的闪电回合之前，您还有什么想分享的吗？

Is there anything else you want to leave listeners with or a nugget you want to?

您还有什么想留给听众的东西或者您想要的东西吗？

Tristan de Montebello: I hope people found value.

Tristan de Montebello：我希望人们发现价值。

I mean, we did.

我的意思是，我们做到了。

This was really a group effort and I really appreciate you working on the agenda, really bringing in the games and trying to make this as practical as possible.

这确实是一个团队的努力，我真的很感谢你们在议程上所做的工作，真正引入游戏并努力使其尽可能实用。

I think the only thing I want to leave people with is again, this idea of how transformational tackling speaking can be, and the more constrained you feel with your speaking, the more transformational it will be to your life.

我想我唯一想留给人们的是，解决演讲问题可以带来多大的变革，而你在演讲中感受到的限制越多，它对你的生活的变革就越大。

So I just want to give this encouragement.

所以我只是想给予这种鼓励。

It's much, much, much more enjoyable than you think it will be.

这比你想象的要有趣得多。

It can actually be exhilarating and energizing and you feel like you can take over the world once you're on this journey.

它实际上是令人兴奋和充满活力的，一旦踏上这段旅程，你就会感觉自己可以掌控世界。

It's beautiful.

很美丽。

And so I just encourage everybody, take the first step and start practicing your speaking.

所以我鼓励大家，迈出第一步，开始练习口语。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

And I definitely felt that after doing the workshop of just I feel energized, I want to just talk all time, but then I'm like, I need more work.

我确实觉得，在参加完研讨会后，我感到精力充沛，我想一直说话，但后来我想，我需要更多的工作。

I need more practice.

我需要更多练习。

Tristan, with that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.

特里斯坦，至此，我们进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。

Are you ready?

你准备好了吗？

Tristan de Montebello: Let's do this lightning round.

Tristan de Montebello：让我们来闪电回合吧。

Here we go.

开始了。

Lenny Rachitsky: Here we go.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我们开始吧。

First question, what are two or three books that you have recommended most to other people?

第一个问题，您向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？

Tristan de Montebello: I was given a book by my first coach, Nathan Seward seven years ago called The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks that I've recommended so many times.

特里斯坦·德·蒙特贝罗：七年前，我的第一位教练内森·苏厄德给了我一本书，名叫《盖伊·亨德里克斯的大跃进》，我已经推荐过很多次了。

And it's based on this idea that we tend to self-sabotage ourselves when we experience too much success or too much happiness.

正是基于这样的想法，当我们经历太多的成功或太多的幸福时，我们往往会自我破坏。

And that that's linked to I think five things that would happen to us when we're growing up.

我认为这与我们成长过程中会发生的五件事有关。

One of them is the...

其中之一是...

What is it, the wild poppy syndrome or something like that.

这是什么，野罂粟综合症还是类似的东西。

Like the tallest poppy is the one that's cut first.

就像最高的罂粟花是第一个被砍掉的。

So if you shine in a family of siblings, then anytime you shine too much we're going to say, "Hey, hey, hey, that's not cool for the others." So that's going to be internalized and hardwired in your body and as an adult, as soon as you start shining a little bit too much, you're going to do the same thing to yourself.

因此，如果你在兄弟姐妹的家庭中表现出色，那么每当你表现得过于出色时，我们都会说：“嘿，嘿，嘿，这对其他人来说并不酷。”因此，这将被内化并根植于你的身体中，作为一个成年人，一旦你开始过度发光，你就会对自己做同样的事情。

So the idea is going from having this point above which you can't be happy to turning it into, he calls it an upward-facing spiral with no upper limit.

所以这个想法是从这个点开始，超过这个点你就不会高兴，把它变成一个没有上限的向上螺旋。

It's a really exciting and empowering book.

这是一本非常令人兴奋和充满力量的书。

Lenny Rachitsky: Do you have a favorite recent movie or TV show you really enjoyed?

Lenny Rachitsky：您最近有最喜欢的电影或电视节目吗？

Tristan de Montebello: I haven't watched much very recently, but I'll say one of my favorite TV shows of all time is the Peaky Blinders, English show with Cillian Murphy.

Tristan de Montebello：我最近没怎么看，但我想说我一直以来最喜欢的电视节目之一是《浴血黑帮》，这是希里安·墨菲主演的英语节目。

I'm absolutely obsessed with that movie that show.

我对那部电影非常着迷。

I think it's a true masterpiece.

我认为这是一部真正的杰作。

And I've recently rewatched, so I'll qualify this as recent.

我最近重新看了一遍，所以我将其定为最近的。

I recently rewatched The Nice Guys with Ryan Gosling and Russell Crowe, and I think it's just a brilliant comedy.

我最近重看了瑞恩·高斯林和罗素·克劳主演的《好人》，我认为这只是一部精彩的喜剧。

Brilliant.

杰出的。

Another masterpiece, I thought.

我想，又是一部杰作。

Lenny Rachitsky: Do you have a favorite recent product that you have discovered that you really love.

Lenny Rachitsky：您最近有没有发现自己真正喜欢的最喜欢的产品？

Could be an app, it could be something physical.

可能是一个应用程序，也可能是物理的东西。

Tristan de Montebello: I have a physical product actually right in front of me that was gifted to me by my business partner Michael Gendler, co-founder of Ultraspeaking.

Tristan de Montebello：我面前有一个实体产品，它是我的商业伙伴、Ultraspeaking 联合创始人 Michael Gendler 送给我的礼物。

This is called an Ember Mug, and this keeps whatever you have in it, warm and it's extraordinary, whether you are a coffee drinker or a tea drinker, you know the feeling of pouring this and sipping it and by the fifth sip, it's cold.

这就是所谓的 Ember 马克杯，它可以让你里面的任何东西保持温暖，而且它很特别，无论你是喝咖啡还是喝茶，你都知道倒这个杯子然后喝它的感觉，到第五口的时候，它已经凉了。

This keeps it at whatever temperature you want it to for however long you want.

这样可以将其保持在您想要的任何温度下，无论您想要多长时间。

And I absolutely love it.

我非常喜欢它。

I've been using it basically every day.

我基本上每天都在使用它。

Lenny Rachitsky: I have one of those.

Lenny Rachitsky：我有其中之一。

I find myself, you could actually control it through the app.

我发现自己实际上可以通过应用程序来控制它。

You can control the temperature through an app, which I love.

你可以通过我喜欢的应用程序来控制温度。

I haven't been using mine, but I love the idea.

我还没用过我的，但我喜欢这个主意。

I know a lot of friends love them.

我知道很多朋友都喜欢他们。

Two more questions.

还有两个问题。

Do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to, share with friends or family, find useful in work or in life?

您是否有一条最喜欢的人生格言，您经常回顾并与朋友或家人分享，并发现它对工作或生活有用？

Tristan de Montebello: I think we are too future focused as a species or as a society and as a result, we're always looking for the next thing.

Tristan de Montebello：我认为作为一个物种或一个社会，我们过于关注未来，因此，我们总是在寻找下一个事物。

So the motto I share with my friends and my business partners and my family the most I think is these are the good old days.

因此，我最想与我的朋友、商业伙伴和家人分享的座右铭是，这些都是过去的美好时光。

And I remind myself, I'll tell you right now for you and for whoever's listening.

我提醒自己，我现在就为你和所有正在听的人告诉你。

I mean think about the podcast, it's never going to be this young, it's never going to feel like it feels right now.

我的意思是想想播客，它永远不会这么年轻，它永远不会像现在这样。

And it always feels like these things are eternal, but truly one day you're going to look back and you're think, "Man, those were really the good old days." And so I say it right now, enjoy because these are the good old days.

总感觉这些事情是永恒的，但真的有一天你回首往事时，你会想，“伙计，那些真是过去的美好时光。”所以我现在就说，享受吧，因为这是过去的美好时光。

Lenny Rachitsky: I love that.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢这个。

And it's so relevant with a young kid, you're always going to think about, "Oh, they're little." I love that.

这与年幼的孩子息息相关，你总是会想，“哦，他们还小。”我喜欢那个。

Final question.

最后一个问题。

You were the fastest person to reach the finals of the world championship of public speaking.

你是进入公开演讲世界锦标赛决赛最快的人。

I imagine that was quite a journey.

我想那是一次相当长的旅程。

I'm curious if there's a story from that experience that comes to mind that's like a wild part of that journey or something that might surprise people.

我很好奇那次经历中是否有一个故事浮现在我的脑海中，就像那次旅程的狂野部分或者可能会让人们感到惊讶的东西。

Tristan de Montebello: Well, the journey lasted almost seven months, and it was the craziest journey of my life.

Tristan de Montebello：嗯，这段旅程持续了将近七个月，这是我一生中最疯狂的旅程。

I went into that with no experience whatsoever speaking, so really just a random amateur, and I just climbed the ladder by outworking everybody.

我在没有任何经验的情况下进入了这个领域，所以实际上只是一个随机的业余爱好者，我只是通过比每个人都努力而爬上阶梯。

The story that came to mind right away was six days before the semifinals.

我立刻想到的是半决赛前六天的故事。

So I'm six days before the semifinals and I've qualified for the semifinals two and a half months ago.

所以距离半决赛还有六天，我在两个半月前就获得了半决赛的资格。

So I'm nobody, now I'm going to the semifinals of the world championships of public speaking.

所以我什么都不是，现在我要去参加公开演讲世界锦标赛的半决赛。

So my mind really is struggling to compute, and I had finally unlocked a speech that I thought was worthy of giving on the final stage.

所以我的大脑确实在努力计算，我终于解锁了我认为值得在最后舞台上发表的演讲。

You have to show up there for the semifinals with one speech, and then the next day, if ever you win, you're going to the finals and you have to have a brand new speech, a completely different speech that you're going to give on that stage.

你必须在半决赛中发表一次演讲，然后第二天，如果你赢了，你将进入决赛，你必须有一个全新的演讲，一个与你在那个舞台上发表的完全不同的演讲。

Tristan de Montebello: So you need two speeches ready to go, and both of those speeches have to be in theory, world-class.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：所以你需要准备两场演讲，而且这两场演讲在理论上都必须是世界级的。

I'm six days before.

我是六天前。

I was struggling at that, really, really struggling to get that speech together.

我真的很挣扎，真的很难把演讲整理好。

I finally got something and Michael managed to get me.

我终于得到了一些东西，迈克尔设法得到了我。

I was flying I think two days later to Vancouver for the semis, and Michael managed to unlock this one opportunity to speak in front of 50 people to give it a try.

我想两天后我就飞往温哥华参加半决赛，迈克尔成功地抓住了这个在 50 人面前演讲的机会来尝试一下。

And so I ran there.

于是我跑到了那里。

I give the speech, and as usual, we film.

我发表演讲，然后像往常一样，我们进行拍摄。

I film every single speech.

我拍摄每一个演讲。

I gave more than a hundred speeches over seven months, and I filmed every single speech.

在七个月的时间里，我发表了一百多次演讲，并且我拍摄了每一次演讲。

And we'd get home, we'd ask everybody for feedback, and I get home and I'm thinking, "Man, something is wrong.

我们回到家，我们会询问每个人的反馈，然后我回到家，我在想，“伙计，出了什么问题。

Something is wrong." I was so pumped.

出了点问题。”我很兴奋。

I wept.

我哭了。

I genuinely wept as I wrote the speech because it was so moving.

当我写这篇演讲稿时，我真的哭了，因为它太感人了。

It was all about my life.

这都是关于我的生活的。

It was something that I was so connected to.

这是我与此密切相关的事情。

I don't know, probably the emotion of the pressure as well, but that's how much I believed in that speech.

我不知道，可能还有压力的情绪，但这就是我对那次演讲的信心。

Tristan de Montebello: We get home, we put the speech on the computer, and as I get to the most important part of the speech, I see two things happen.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：我们回到家，把演讲稿存到电脑上，当我讲到演讲最重要的部分时，我看到发生了两件事。

So this is the moment where I'm expecting people to pull out their tissues.

所以现在我希望人们拿出纸巾。

One person pulls up the agenda for the event that they're at and is starting to look at the agenda.

一个人拿出他们正在参加的活动的议程，并开始查看议程。

Another person pulls out their phone, another person starts going through their purse, and I'm looking at this, and suddenly I realized, "Oh, this speech, nobody cares about this.

另一个人拿出手机，另一个人开始翻钱包，我看着这个，突然我意识到，“哦，这个演讲，没有人关心这个。

This is not a good speech.

这不是一个好的演讲。

This is terrible." And then I go through all of these feedbacks.

这太可怕了。”然后我会查看所有这些反馈。

Tristan de Montebello: I have 50 pieces of feedback, and all I'm getting is, "Good luck for the semi-finals.

Tristan de Montebello：我收到了 50 条反馈，但我得到的只是“祝半决赛好运。

It's going to go great.

一切都会很棒。

I thought it was good", and I'm like, "I'm going to humiliate myself.

我认为这很好”，然后我想，“我要羞辱自己。

This is terrible." So I had waves of anxiety.

这太可怕了。”所以我心里一阵阵焦虑。

I threw my speech away, and in five days from the ground up, I rebuilt a completely new speech that was basically the best of everything I'd explored, everything I'd experimented with over the course of the three months leading up to that, the jokes that worked the best, like a stand-up comic would.

我扔掉了我的演讲，在五天内从头开始，我重建了一个全新的演讲，它基本上是我探索过的一切中最好的，我在这之前的三个月中尝试过的一切，最有效的笑话，就像单口喜剧一样。

I built my special and I focused on different areas like all of the transitions.

我建立了我的特别，我专注于不同的领域，比如所有的过渡。

Tristan de Montebello: And right before the semi-finals, I gave the speech to one person.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：就在半决赛之前，我向一个人发表了演讲。

I was in Vancouver trying to internalize my speech and memorizing it in a plaza where I delimited the size of the stage and I'm just giving my speech out loud to get over the nerves, so I'm ready for the pressure to see if my brain will remember it and everything.

我在温哥华试图内化我的演讲并在一个广场上记住它，在那里我划定了舞台的大小，我只是大声发表演讲以克服紧张，所以我准备好承受压力，看看我的大脑是否会记住它和一切。

Tristan de Montebello: Anyways, I gave it in front of one person who was our district director at Toastmasters, and this is a speech meant for 500 to a thousand people, not one person.

Tristan de Montebello：无论如何，我是在 Toastmasters 的一位地区总监面前发表的，这是一场面向 500 到 1000 人的演讲，而不是一个人的演讲。

So I was scared it would flop.

所以我很害怕它会失败。

But in the middle of the speech, which is a completely different one, I saw a tear roll down her cheek, and then she just hugged me and said, "You got it.

但在完全不同的演讲进行到一半时，我看到一滴泪水从她的脸颊上滚落下来，然后她只是拥抱我说：“你明白了。

You did it.

你做到了。

You did it." I walked out on that stage and I made it, and I won the semi-finals with that speech.

你做到了。”我走上那个舞台，我成功了，我凭借那次演讲赢得了半决赛。

Tristan de Montebello: I think to me, that was really the, it showed me that everything I'd done was worth something, that it actually worked.

Tristan de Montebello：我认为对我来说，这确实是，它向我表明我所做的一切都是有价值的，它确实有效。

If I was able to build a speech in five days, that could get me a win at the semi-finals of the world championships.

如果我能够在五天内写出一篇演讲，那么我就可以在世界锦标赛的半决赛中获胜。

That was kind of the ultimate, "Wow, I won." So when I walked into the finals, to me, I felt like I had already won.

这就是终极的“哇，我赢了”。所以当我走进决赛时，对我来说，我感觉我已经赢了。

Lenny Rachitsky: Wow, that is a story.

Lenny Rachitsky：哇，这是一个故事。

What an arc.

多么圆弧啊。

Amazing.

惊人的。

I'm so happy you asked that question.

我很高兴你问了这个问题。

Now I just want to watch that speech and I want to learn more about this whole championship of public speaking, which I have no insight into.

现在我只想看那个演讲，我想更多地了解整个公开演讲锦标赛，但我对此一无所知。

That could be its own podcast interview.

这可能是它自己的播客采访。

Lenny Rachitsky: But Tristan, thank you so much for being here.

Lenny Rachitsky：但是特里斯坦，非常感谢你来到这里。

This was incredible.

这太不可思议了。

One of the most interesting episodes I've done.

我做过的最有趣的剧集之一。

Two final questions.

最后两个问题。

Where can folks learn more about Ultraspeaking?

人们可以在哪里了解有关 Ultraspeaking 的更多信息？

I know you built a page where they could experiment with some of this stuff, so share that.

我知道您建立了一个页面，他们可以在其中尝试其中的一些内容，所以分享一下。

And then how can listeners be useful to you?

那么听众如何对你有用呢？

Tristan de Montebello: If you go to ultraspeaking.

Tristan de Montebello：如果你去超话。

com/Lenny, so ultra like U-L-T-R-A ultraspeaking.com/Lenny, we put together, you have five emails that go deep into a bunch of the things that we've talked here.

com/Lenny，非常像 U-L-T-R-A ultraspeaking.com/Lenny，我们放在一起，您有五封电子邮件，深入探讨了我们在这里讨论的一系列内容。

You can also just go to Ultraspeaking.com where you'll get access to a bunch of the games for free, and you can check out everything else that we do.

您还可以访问 Ultraspeaking.com，在那里您可以免费访问大量游戏，并且可以查看我们所做的所有其他内容。

If you want to follow me or hit me up or ask me questions about this podcast, you can do that on Twitter @Montebello, M-O-N-T-E-B-E-L-L-O.

如果您想关注我或联系我或向我询问有关此播客的问题，您可以在 Twitter @Montebello，M-O-N-T-E-B-E-L-L-O 上进行操作。

And how can listeners be useful to me?

听众如何对我有用？

Well, first of all, if you made it to here, then I really appreciate you.

好吧，首先，如果你能来到这里，那么我真的很感激你。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Thank you for being here with us, and what I would love for you to do is to apply this.

感谢您与我们在一起，我希望您能做的就是应用这一点。

We said in the beginning, you can't get better at speaking without speaking, and another piece of that puzzle is you want to do the thing that you're trying to get better at.

我们一开始就说过，如果不说话，你就不可能变得更好，而这个难题的另一个部分是你想做你想要做得更好的事情。

So if you're nervous speaking in front of people, you want to speak in front of people as part of your practice.

因此，如果您在人们面前讲话感到紧张，那么您想将在人们面前讲话作为练习的一部分。

So the way you could be useful to me is introduce these games to somebody else.

因此，您对我有用的方法是将这些游戏介绍给其他人。

Try them for yourself, practice them with somebody else.

自己尝试一下，和别人一起练习。

Go through the accordion method with a friend.

与朋友一起练习手风琴方法。

Try conductor, and when you succeed and when you have an awesome experience, then you can tell the world that Ultraspeaking helped you do that, and that would be huge.

尝试一下conductor，当你成功并获得很棒的体验时，你就可以告诉世界Ultraspeaking 帮助你做到了这一点，这将是巨大的。

Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.

莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。

Tristan, thank you so much for being here.

特里斯坦，非常感谢你来到这里。

Tristan de Montebello: Thanks, Lenny.

特里斯坦·德蒙特贝罗：谢谢，莱尼。

It was an honor.

这是一种荣幸。

It was my honor, Tristan.

这是我的荣幸，特里斯坦。

Bye everyone.: Thank you so much for listening.

大家再见：非常感谢您的聆听。

If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。

Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review, as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.

另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。

You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at LennysPodcast.com.

您可以在 LennysPodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。

See you in the next episode.

下一集见。

中文为机器翻译，仅供参考。