'Pattern Breakers: How to find a breakthrough startup idea | Mike Maples, Jr. (Partner at Floodgate)'
Lenny Rachitsky: You found that there's basically three elements of most breakthrough startup ideas.
Lenny Rachitsky：您发现最具突破性的创业想法基本上包含三个要素。
Mike Maples, Jr.: The three are inflections, insights and then the founder future fit.
Mike Maples, Jr.：这三者是变化、洞察力以及创始人未来的契合度。
Business is never a fair fight.
商业从来就不是一场公平的斗争。
What inflections let the founder do is wage asymmetric warfare on the present.
让创始人做的事情就是在当下发动不对称战争。
Lenny Rachitsky: You reference this term that you use occasionally, the term secret.
Lenny Rachitsky：您提到了您偶尔使用的术语“秘密”。
Mike Maples, Jr.: The way inventions happen is people get their hands dirty, being awake to the possibility that secrets are there.
Mike Maples, Jr.：发明的发生方式是人们亲自动手，意识到秘密存在的可能性。
If you're living in the future and you notice what's missing, your intuition about what to build is far more likely to be right.
如果您生活在未来并且注意到缺少什么，那么您关于要构建什么的直觉更有可能是正确的。
Lenny Rachitsky: This connects with that stat that you shared, that 80% of your biggest returning investments came from a pivot.
Lenny Rachitsky：这与您分享的统计数据有关，您最大的投资回报 80% 来自支点。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So startup never beats a big company by executing better.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以初创公司永远不会通过更好的执行来击败大公司。
The way startups win is because it proposes a radically different future.
初创公司获胜的方式是因为它提出了一个完全不同的未来。
Disorients the incumbent and chaotically moves people to that different future.
让现任者迷失方向，并混乱地将人们推向不同的未来。
The rock is the inflection, the slingshot is the insight that David shoots at Goliath.
岩石是变形，弹弓是大卫射向歌利亚的洞察力。
We're looking to create the conditions where we're going to get to play an unfair game by unfair rules that favor us.
我们正在寻求创造条件，让我们能够通过有利于我们的不公平规则来玩不公平的游戏。
Lenny Rachitsky: Today, my guest is Mike Maples Jr. Mike is a legendary early stage startup investor and with his firm, Floodgate, which was founded over 20 years ago, was one of the earliest pioneers of seed stage investing as a category.
Lenny Rachitsky：今天，我的嘉宾是 Mike Maples Jr.。Mike 是一位传奇的早期创业投资者，他的公司 Floodgate 成立于 20 多年前，是种子期投资类别的最早先驱之一。
He's made early bets on transformative companies like Twitter, Lyft, Twitch, Okta, Rappi and Applied Intuition and has been on the Forbes Midas list eight times.
他早期就押注于 Twitter、Lyft、Twitch、Okta、Rappi 和 Applied Intuition 等变革性公司，并曾八次登上福布斯最佳创投人排行榜。
More recently, he's been spending a lot of his time researching where great startup ideas come from and what separates the startups and founders that break through and change the world from those that don't go anywhere.
最近，他花了很多时间研究伟大的创业想法从何而来，以及是什么将那些突破并改变世界的初创公司和创始人与那些一事无成的初创公司和创始人区分开来。
After spending years reviewing his notes and decks from the thousands of startups that he's met with over the past two decades, he's uncovered three ways that breakthrough founders think differently and act differently.
在花了数年时间回顾他在过去二十年里遇到的数千家初创公司的笔记和演讲稿后，他发现了突破性创始人不同思考和不同行动的三种方式。
In our conversation, Mike shares what he's uncovered along with the pitfalls that he's seen many founders and startups fall into, how to apply these pattern breaking principles to large companies and so much more.
在我们的谈话中，迈克分享了他所发现的内容以及他看到的许多创始人和初创公司陷入的陷阱，以及如何将这些打破模式的原则应用于大公司等等。
Lenny Rachitsky: I've never seen anything like this sort of research done before on early stage investing and startups.
Lenny Rachitsky：我以前从未见过针对早期投资和初创公司进行过此类研究。
And if you're a founder, a product builder or an investor, this will change the way that you think about building successful products.
如果您是创始人、产品开发者或投资者，这将改变您构建成功产品的思维方式。
Also, as an added bonus, Mike has offered listeners of this podcast a very cool offer.
此外，作为额外的奖励，迈克还为这个播客的听众提供了一个非常酷的优惠。
If you pre-order the book at patternbreakers.com/lenny, you'll receive a second signed copy of the book for free.
如果您在patternbreakers.com/lenny 上预订该书，您将免费收到该书的第二本签名副本。
There are limited number of copies available of this offer, so if you're interested, I'd encourage you to place your order ASAP.
此优惠的数量有限，因此如果您有兴趣，我建议您尽快下订单。
The book is coming out July 9th.
该书将于 7 月 9 日出版。
To take advantage of this offer, go to patternbreakers.com/lenny.
要利用此优惠，请访问patternbreakers.com/lenny。
With that, I bring you Mike Maples Jr. Mike, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.
接下来，我为您带来小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples Jr.)。迈克，非常感谢您来到这里，欢迎来到播客。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Lenny, thanks for having me.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：莱尼，谢谢你邀请我。
It is absolutely an honor.
这绝对是一种荣幸。
Lenny Rachitsky: It's my honor.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：这是我的荣幸。
What we're going to be talking about in our conversation today is how to come up with a startup idea and how to take the first few steps to make that idea real.
我们今天要讨论的是如何提出一个创业想法，以及如何采取最初的几个步骤来使这个想法成为现实。
You have a book coming out that is exactly this, helping people understand how to do this.
您出版的一本书正是这样的，帮助人们了解如何做到这一点。
It's called Pattern Breakers: Why Some Start-Ups Change the Future.
它被称为“模式打破者：为什么一些初创企业改变未来”。
Let me just ask a broad question.
让我问一个广泛的问题。
You're very busy, very successful investor, why did you decide to write a book?
您是一位非常忙碌、非常成功的投资者，为什么您决定写一本书？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, a lot of things in life.
Mike Maples, Jr.：是的，生活中有很多事情。
It was kind of an outgrowth of an accident and a outgrowth of being down a certain rabbit hole.
这是一场事故的产物，也是掉进某个兔子洞的产物。
So about 10 years ago, Twitch was acquired by Amazon for 970 million and we made something like 85 times our money.
大约 10 年前，Twitch 被亚马逊以 9.7 亿美元收购，我们赚了大约 85 倍的钱。
And normally, you'd think that's a really good thing, it was a good thing, but I had forgotten that I was even a shareholder of Twitch.
通常，你会认为这是一件非常好的事情，这是一件好事，但我忘记了我什至是 Twitch 的股东。
So I had to go to my LPs and I had to explain to them, "Hey, I'm sorry I don't have this in my financial statements, but do you want me to restate them?" And they were all like, "Nope, we're good.
所以我必须去找我的有限合伙人，我必须向他们解释，“嘿，很抱歉我的财务报表中没有这些，但是你想让我重述一下吗？”他们都说：“不，我们很好。
Just send us the money." And some of them even sent me bottles of champagne and stuff and the good kind.
只要把钱寄给我们就可以了。”他们中的一些人甚至给我送了瓶香槟之类的好东西。
Then I started to kind of feel a little bit unsettled.
然后我开始感到有点不安。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So how was I shareholder and Twitch?
Mike Maples, Jr.：那么我的股东和 Twitch 怎么样？
I'd invested in a company called Justin.tv that had morphed into two companies, Socialcam and Twitch, and then Socialcam got bought.
我投资了一家名为 Justin.tv 的公司，该公司后来发展成为两家公司：Socialcam 和 Twitch，然后 Socialcam 被收购。
And so I just thought that was the company.
所以我以为那就是公司。
I'd been investing for about 10 years and I noticed that 80% of my exit profits had gone from pivot.
我已经进行了大约 10 年的投资，我注意到我 80% 的退出利润都从支点中消失了。
And I also noticed that all the ones that had seemed to do well didn't necessarily follow the best practices that everybody talked about.
我还注意到，所有看起来表现良好的人并不一定遵循每个人都在谈论的最佳实践。
I didn't see the Twitter guys doing the business model canvas, for example.
例如，我没有看到 Twitter 的人在做商业模式画布。
And I didn't see the Justin.tv Team even as they morphed into Twitch being who I would hold up as the most functioning management team I ever saw.
我没有看到 Justin.tv 团队，即使他们已经演变成 Twitch，我认为他们是我见过的最高效的管理团队。
A lot of it was pretty crazy and wild and random.
其中很多都是相当疯狂、狂野和随机的。
And at the same time, I was helping founders shut down their companies and they had seemed to do all the right things.
与此同时，我正在帮助创始人关闭他们的公司，他们似乎做了所有正确的事情。
Mike Maples, Jr.: They'd done the business model canvas, they'd done customer development, they'd done all the things you're supposed to do, hired well, they would've been a Harvard Business School case study except for the fact that they failed.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：他们做了商业模式画布，他们做了客户开发，他们做了你应该做的所有事情，雇用得很好，他们本来可以成为哈佛商学院的案例研究，除非他们失败了。
And so the genesis of this project was really like, "Okay, should I just retire before I get exposed?
所以这个项目的起源实际上就像是，“好吧，我应该在暴露之前退休吗？
Is this just all random?
这一切都是随机的吗？
Am I just lucky or is there something else worth understanding?" And as I started to develop conviction about what those things were, I started to talk to people about it.
是我运气好还是还有什么值得理解的？”当我开始确信这些东西是什么时，我开始与人们谈论它。
A lot of people said, "Oh, you should write a book.
很多人说：“哦，你应该写一本书。
Founders ought to see this.
创始人应该看到这一点。
It'd be really valuable for their thought process in coming up with their startup ideas."
这对于他们提出创业想法的思维过程非常有价值。”
Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Enterpret.
Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Enterpret 为您带来。
Enterpret unifies all of your customer interactions from Gong calls to Zendesk tickets to Twitter threads, to app store reviews, and makes it available for your product team.
Enterpret 统一了您所有的客户交互，从 Kong 呼叫到 Zendesk 票证到 Twitter 线程，再到应用程序商店评论，并可供您的产品团队使用。
It's used by leading product orgs like Canva, Notion, Loom, Linear, and Descript to accurately integrate the voice of the customer into your product development process, helping you build best-in-class products.
Canva、Notion、Loom、Linear 和 Descript 等领先产品组织都使用它来将客户的声音准确地集成到您的产品开发流程中，帮助您构建一流的产品。
What makes Enterpret special is its ability to build customer-specific adaptive AI models that provide the most granular and accurate categorization of all your customer feedback.
Enterpret 的独特之处在于它能够构建特定于客户的自适应 AI 模型，为所有客户反馈提供最精细、最准确的分类。
And also connect customer feedback to revenue impact to help product leaders confidently prioritize things that will actually move the needle for your business.
还将客户反馈与收入影响联系起来，帮助产品领导者自信地优先考虑那些真正能为您的业务带来推动的事情。
Lenny Rachitsky: If you want a custom model built for your organization so that you can automate your feedback loops and prioritize your roadmap with confidence, get in touch with the team at Enterpret.com/lenny.
Lenny Rachitsky：如果您想要为您的组织构建自定义模型，以便您可以自动化反馈循环并自信地确定路线图的优先级，请通过 Enterpret.com/lenny 与团队联系。
That's E-N-T-E-R-P-R-E-T.com/lenny.
那是 E-N-T-E-R-P-R-E-T.com/lenny。
This episode is brought to you by Anvil.
本集由 Anvil 为您带来。
Their document SDK helps product teams build and launch software for documents fast.
他们的文档 SDK 可帮助产品团队快速构建和启动文档软件。
Companies like Carta and Vouch Insurance use Anvil to accelerate the development of their document workflows.
Carta 和 Vouch Insurance 等公司使用 Anvil 来加速文档工作流程的开发。
Getting to market fast is a top priority for product teams.
快速进入市场是产品团队的首要任务。
And the last thing that you or your developers want is to build document workflows from scratch.
您或您的开发人员最不想看到的就是从头开始构建文档工作流程。
It's time-consuming expensive and distracts from core work.
它既耗时又昂贵，而且会分散核心工作的注意力。
You could stitch together multiple tools and manage those integrations, or you can use an all-in-one document SDK.
您可以将多个工具组合在一起并管理这些集成，也可以使用一体化文档 SDK。
Lenny Rachitsky: Most product managers will tell you paperwork sucks.
Lenny Rachitsky：大多数产品经理都会告诉你文书工作很糟糕。
Anvil's document SDK helps teams get to market fast, incorporate your brand's style and give you back time to focus on your company's core differentiated features.
Anvil 的文档 SDK 可帮助团队快速进入市场、融入您的品牌风格，并让您有时间专注于公司的核心差异化功能。
For your users, paperwork often starts with an AI-powered web form styled and embedded in your application.
对于您的用户来说，文书工作通常从设计并嵌入到您的应用程序中的人工智能驱动的 Web 表单开始。
From there, you can route data to your backend systems and to the correct fields in your PDFs via API.
从那里，您可以将数据路由到后端系统并通过 API 路由到 PDF 中的正确字段。
Complete the process with a white labeled e-signature.
使用白色标签的电子签名完成该过程。
The best part about Anvil is the level of customization their SDK provides.
Anvil 最好的部分是其 SDK 提供的定制级别。
Non-technical folks love Anvil's drag-and-drop builder and developers love their flexible APIs and easy-to-understand documentation.
非技术人员喜欢 Anvil 的拖放构建器，开发人员喜欢其灵活的 API 和易于理解的文档。
Build documents software fast with Anvil, that's useanvil.com/lenny to learn more or start a free trial.
使用 Anvil 快速构建文档软件，请访问 useanvil.com/lenny 了解更多信息或开始免费试用。
That's use, A-N-V-I-L.com/Lenny.
这就是用途，A-N-V-I-L.com/Lenny。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
I'm even more excited to get into the meat of this.
我更兴奋能深入了解这一点。
I was already excited.
我已经很兴奋了。
Before we get into that, just can you share a bit about the work that you did to uncover these insights?
在我们开始讨论之前，您能否分享一下您为发现这些见解所做的工作？
I know you have hundreds of decks of all these early-stage companies you've looked at, what is the work that went into this?
我知道您已经看过数百套早期公司的资料，这方面的工作是什么？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, so there's a movie that came out a few years ago called Trainspotting, right?
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的，几年前有一部电影叫《猜火车》，对吧？
And there's these guys, these dorky old British guys in anorak coats who chart the comings and goings of trains like it's the most interesting thing in the world.
还有这些家伙，这些穿着厚外套的英国老家伙，他们记录着火车的进出情况，就像这是世界上最有趣的事情一样。
They'd put it in their journals and everything.
他们会把它记在日记和所有东西里。
I'm that way when it comes to startups.
当谈到初创公司时我就是这样。
I have a database of any startup where you would've made more than a hundred acts on your first check.
我有一个数据库，记录了任何一家初创公司，在你第一次检查时，你就会做出一百多个行为。
And what I want to do is I want to get a time capsule for those startups.
我想做的是为这些初创公司获得一个时间胶囊。
I want to understand what did it look like not after it succeeded, but what did it look like at precisely the time you would've needed to decide whether it was an interesting opportunity.
我想了解的是，不是在成功之后，它是什么样子，而是在你需要决定这是否是一个有趣的机会时，它是什么样子。
So I have the original pitch deck for what was at the time called Air Bed and Breakfast, which I foolishly passed on, and you seem to have made a good career decision in joining.
所以我有当时称为“Air Bed and Breakfast”的原始宣传材料，我愚蠢地传递了它，而你加入似乎做出了一个很好的职业决定。
Mike Maples, Jr.: I have the pitch deck for Pinterest.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我有 Pinterest 的宣传材料。
I have the pitch deck for all of these that we either passed on or said yes to.
我有所有这些的宣传材料，我们要么放弃了，要么同意了。
And the reason I want to do that is it's easy to misremember how things really happened.
我想这样做的原因是很容易记错事情到底是如何发生的。
And what I find is even the founders themselves, we have a tendency to remember knowing more than we really did at the time.
我发现，即使是创始人本身，我们也倾向于记住比我们当时实际知道的更多的东西。
And so I really wanted to do the best job I could of understanding exactly what it was like, what was the origin story of this idea?
所以我真的很想尽我所能来准确理解它是什么样的，这个想法的起源故事是什么？
How did they come up with it?
他们是怎么想出来的？
If they pivoted, what caused them to pivot?
如果他们发生了转变，是什么导致了他们的转变？
When did they first start to encounter success?
他们什么时候开始遭遇成功？
What was the reason for that?
原因是什么？
All those things.
所有这些事情。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And I had to be really careful in the questions that I asked because for example, you don't ask, "Why were you successful?" Because then they'll offer their reasons they thought they were successful.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我在提出问题时必须非常小心，因为例如，你不会问“你为什么成功？”因为这样他们就会给出他们认为自己成功的理由。
What you want to do is you want to say, "Okay, I noticed here's the seed pitch deck and you called the product X, but now the product's called Y.
你想做的是说：“好吧，我注意到这是种子融资平台，你将产品称为 X，但现在该产品称为 Y。
When did you make that change?
你什么时候做出这样的改变？
Why did that happen?" And so you're trying to do the very best you can of asking a very non-judgmental set of questions that are going to give you a non-judgmental set of answers so that you can kind of be like a detective and kind of get to the root cause of why these things took off.
为什么会这样？”因此，你要尽最大努力提出一系列非评判性的问题，这些问题会给你一套非评判性的答案，这样你就可以像一名侦探一样，找到这些事情发生的根本原因。
Lenny Rachitsky: Incredible.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：难以置信。
And I think what's also important is you have access to more data and more unique data than most other people because you invest so early stage.
我认为同样重要的是，你比大多数其他人能够获得更多的数据和更独特的数据，因为你在早期阶段就进行了投资。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, I think the other thing is I just have a pretty simpatico relationship with founders usually, and so I can kind of push for the real, and they're not...
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：是的，我认为另一件事是我通常与创始人有着非常和睦的关系，所以我可以推动真正的事情，而他们不是……
I'm like, "Look, I won't share anything you don't want me to share.
我想，“听着，我不会分享任何你不想让我分享的东西。
I'm just trying to understand." And so when you have these informal relationships...
我只是想理解。”所以当你有这些非正式的关系时......
that's the other thing I learned is you try not to show up in a conference room interviewing them like a normal interview.
这是我学到的另一件事是，你尽量不要像正常面试一样出现在会议室采访他们。
You try to glean these facts over time with informal discussions and in the midst of talking about other things as well.
随着时间的推移，您尝试通过非正式讨论以及谈论其他事情来收集这些事实。
And so I think that that was part of what was really valuable about the exercise was sort of the opportunity to get the unvarnished wild story of what really happened.
因此，我认为这次演习真正有价值的部分是有机会获得真实发生的真实故事的机会。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
Okay, so let's get into it.
好吧，让我们开始吧。
Your book's basically broken up into two parts, how to come up with an idea and then the actions you need to get right to move forward an idea, and you have a really cool way of framing how to do this and then we'll get into it.
你的书基本上分为两部分，如何提出一个想法，然后采取正确的行动来推进一个想法，你有一个非常酷的方式来框架如何做到这一点，然后我们将开始讨论它。
But maybe frame these two parts real quick.
但也许可以很快地构建这两部分。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So I'll give it my best shot.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以我会尽力而为。
I mean, the main thing is that business is never a fair fight.
我的意思是，最重要的是，商业从来就不是一场公平的战斗。
So the incumbents start out with an advantage, and the default is they will maintain their advantage.
因此，现有企业一开始就有优势，默认情况下他们将保持优势。
And so the startup has to decide that it wants to fight unfair.
因此，这家初创公司必须决定要对抗不公平现象。
And so how does a startup fight unfair?
那么初创公司如何应对不公平的竞争呢？
It has to harness a different set of powers than are obvious to most people.
它必须利用一系列与大多数人所认为不同的权力。
For example, better doesn't matter when you're a startup, because better is an extension of the present.
例如，当你是一家初创公司时，更好并不重要，因为更好是现在的延伸。
Better is when you think the future will resemble the present, but only be slightly different.
更好的是当你认为未来会与现在相似，但只是略有不同。
The way startups win is by being radically different.
初创公司的制胜之道在于与众不同。
A startup wins by avoiding the comparison trap entirely.
初创公司通过完全避免比较陷阱而获胜。
So like when Lyft launched ride-sharing and then Uber closely followed with UberX, nobody after riding a ride-share said, "Oh, how's that different from taxis?"
就像 Lyft 推出拼车服务，然后 Uber 紧随其后推出 UberX 一样，没有人在乘坐拼车服务后说：“哦，这和出租车有什么不同？”
Mike Maples, Jr.: It was just self-evident how different it was.
Mike Maples, Jr.：这是不言而喻的，它有多么不同。
And so that's what we mean by forcing a choice and not a comparison.
这就是我们所说的强迫选择而不是比较的意思。
So the startup capitalist, it turns out, is a different type of capitalist.
事实证明，创业资本家是另一种类型的资本家。
A corporate capitalist makes money by persistently compounding, makes money by extending their advantage, makes money by having a moat, makes money by doing things well over and over again in a compounding way.
企业资本家通过持续复利来赚钱，通过扩大优势来赚钱，通过拥有护城河来赚钱，通过以复利的方式一遍又一遍地做好事情来赚钱。
Startup has none of those things.
初创公司没有这些东西。
There's nothing to compound.
没有什么可以复合的。
And so the way a startup wins is they just change the subject.
因此，初创公司获胜的方式就是改变主题。
They deny the premise of the rules and propose something completely different.
他们否认规则的前提并提出完全不同的东西。
And that was the original notion behind pattern breaking was you want to have an idea that just radically breaks the pattern that can't be compared to anything that's come before, and that's when the startup has a chance to play offense.
这就是打破模式背后的最初想法，你想要一个想法，从根本上打破无法与之前的任何模式相比的模式，而这就是初创公司有机会进攻的时候。
Lenny Rachitsky: So coming back to the two parts are coming up with the idea and the actions that you got to take.
Lenny Rachitsky：所以回到这两个部分来提出你必须采取的想法和行动。
So let's dive into coming up with an idea, and this is where I want to spend most of the time because I think this is where most people get it wrong or everything starts with the idea.
因此，让我们深入思考一个想法，这是我想花大部分时间的地方，因为我认为这是大多数人犯错的地方，或者一切都是从这个想法开始的。
So I think there's a lot of meat here.
所以我认为这里有很多肉。
And what I love about your book is you have a very succinct limited number of things that you've uncovered that are elements across successful companies, pattern breaking companies.
我喜欢你的书的一点是，你发现了一些非常简洁、有限的东西，这些东西是成功公司、打破模式公司的要素。
So within the idea bucket, you found that there's basically three elements of most breakthrough startup ideas.
因此，在创意桶中，您发现最具突破性的创业创意基本上包含三个要素。
Can you share the three and then let's talk about each one.
您能否分享这三个，然后让我们逐一讨论。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的。
The three are inflections, insights and then what I call founder future fit.
这三者分别是变化、洞察力以及我所说的创始人未来契合度。
Or another way I phrase it is, "Is this from the future." But those are the main three things that I've observed tend to suggest breakthrough potential.
或者换句话说，“这是来自未来的吗？”但我观察到的这三件事往往表明突破潜力。
And here's an important thing.
这是一件重要的事情。
You'll notice I didn't say the implementation.
你会注意到我没有说实现。
So one of the things that I learned is that if you have the right insight, and we'll get to some of this, you have a first mover advantage into the future.
所以我学到的一件事是，如果你有正确的洞察力，并且我们会做到其中一些，那么你就拥有未来的先发优势。
And so a lot of times your first implementation won't be right, but if your insight is correct, you can navigate the implementation to the right implementation to get product market fit.
因此，很多时候您的第一次实施并不正确，但如果您的洞察是正确的，您可以将实施导航到正确的实施，以获得适合产品市场的产品。
But what we need to understand is there need to be these underlying forces underneath the idea to give it the power to escape the gravitational pull of the present.
但我们需要明白的是，这个想法背后需要有这些潜在的力量，才能使其有能力摆脱当前的引力。
That's what we want.
这就是我们想要的。
We want a set of powers that we could observe that make it worth pursuing and make it worth navigating the product to the ultimate place.
我们想要一组我们可以观察到的力量，使其值得追求并使其值得将产品引导至最终目标。
Lenny Rachitsky: So let's talk about the first power.
Lenny Rachitsky：那么我们来谈谈第一个幂。
You call it inflections.
你称之为屈折变化。
What is an inflection?
什么是屈折变化？
Why does it matter?
为什么这很重要？
What does an inflection look like?
词形变化是什么样的？
Mike Maples, Jr.: An inflection is an external event that creates the potential for radical change in how people think, feel, and act.
Mike Maples, Jr.：变化是一种外部事件，它有可能彻底改变人们的思维、感受和行为方式。
Inflections happen external to any startup or any company for that matter.
就此而言，任何初创公司或任何公司都会发生外部变化。
So we've brought up Lyft a little bit ago, so maybe we'll use them as an example.
我们刚才提到了 Lyft，所以也许我们会用它们作为例子。
So the inflection that enabled Lyft was the iPhone 4s shipped with a GPS locator chip.
因此，Lyft 的转折点是 iPhone 4s 配备了 GPS 定位芯片。
And one of the things that that illustrates is, for example, Moore's law is not an inflection, an improvement curve is not an inflection.
其中所说明的事情之一是，例如，摩尔定律不是拐点，改进曲线也不是拐点。
An inflection, I'm a little persnickety about, it's a turning point.
拐点，我有点挑剔，这是一个转折点。
And so in math, it's a turning point on a curve where the slope changes.
所以在数学中，它是曲线上斜率变化的转折点。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But in tech startups, it's a point in time where something new gets introduced that creates new empowerment for the first time possible.
Mike Maples, Jr.：但在科技初创企业中，这是一个引入新事物的时间点，首次创造了新的授权。
And so people talk about timing and why now?
所以人们谈论时机，为什么是现在？
Inflections for me were the unlock.
对我来说，语调变化就是解锁。
You could have had the idea for ride-sharing before the iPhone 4s, but it wouldn't have mattered because the riders and the drivers wouldn't have been able to locate each other well enough.
在 iPhone 4s 出现之前，你可能就有拼车的想法，但这并不重要，因为乘客和司机无法很好地找到彼此。
If you'd waited too long after the iPhone 4s, it would've been obvious.
如果你在 iPhone 4s 之后等了太久，那就很明显了。
And so there was this window of time, this magical moment when a new type of empowerment was possible for the first time ever.
因此，出现了这个时间窗口，这个神奇的时刻，一种新型的赋权有史以来第一次成为可能。
And the companies that the founders who understood that were in a position to offer that kind of empowerment in the form of a radical product that changed the future.
创始人所理解的公司能够以改变未来的激进产品的形式提供这种授权。
Lenny Rachitsky: To make it even more real for people.
Lenny Rachitsky：为了让人们更加真实。
What are some other examples of inflections either in the past, in the present?
过去和现在还有哪些其他变化的例子？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Another example would be the cameras getting better on the smartphones, which enabled Instagram.
Mike Maples, Jr.：另一个例子是智能手机上的相机变得越来越好，这使得 Instagram 成为可能。
So Instagram was at the convergence of a few inflections.
因此，Instagram 正处于一些变化的融合时期。
First of all, there were smartphone adoptions.
首先，智能手机的普及。
There were just more of them.
只是数量更多了。
And so they crossed like 10 million smartphones, but then you had the cameras getting a lot better.
因此，它们跨越了大约 1000 万部智能手机，但随后相机变得更好了。
You had more of them connected on Wi-Fi.
你有更多的人通过 Wi-Fi 连接。
You had the networks having better upload speed for smartphones.
您的网络为智能手机提供了更好的上传速度。
So all those factors converged and made it possible for Instagram to offer a product that was good enough to take most of your photos with.
因此，所有这些因素汇聚在一起，使得 Instagram 能够提供一款足以满足您拍摄大部分照片的产品。
You didn't start to think, "Oh, I need a digital camera separate from my smartphone.
你不会开始思考：“哦，我需要一台与智能手机分开的数码相机。
Now I can just use my smartphone everywhere I go." But Instagram could have come out in 2008.
现在我可以随时随地使用智能手机。”但 Instagram 本来可以在 2008 年问世。
Mike Maples, Jr.: It probably wouldn't have worked it probably, or it wouldn't have worked to the extent that it did.
Mike Maples, Jr.：它可能不会起作用，或者不会达到它所起作用的程度。
Its window of timing was just right.
它的时机恰到好处。
What are some other examples?
还有哪些其他例子？
The locator chips in the smartphones powered other companies as well, it powered DoorDash, Instacart.
智能手机中的定位器芯片也为其他公司提供支持，例如 DoorDash、Instacart。
They had different insights which we'll get to, but there were lots of different ways to harness that power.
他们有不同的见解，我们将得到这些见解，但有很多不同的方法可以利用这种力量。
One thing I love about inflections, and this kind of goes really old school, is just because you have a power doesn't mean you know how to use it, right?
我喜欢语调变化的一件事是，这种变化真的很老派，只是因为你有一种力量并不意味着你知道如何使用它，对吧？
So the wheel was mounted horizontally for 500 years before somebody mounted it vertically.
因此，在有人垂直安装轮子之前，轮子已经水平安装了 500 年。
So originally people used the wheel to make pots, and that was a good innovation because it accelerated making pots, but then somebody decides to mount it vertically, and now you're propelling wagons and you just change transportation entirely.
所以最初人们用轮子来制作花盆，这是一个很好的创新，因为它加速了花盆的制作，但后来有人决定垂直安装它，现在你正在推动马车，你只是完全改变了运输。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so most people don't realize that the thing that's underneath us or the thing that's in our hands or the thing that's in our pocket might have a power that when unleashed could change the future.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：所以大多数人没有意识到我们脚下的东西、我们手中的东西或我们口袋里的东西可能拥有一种力量，一旦释放出来，就可能改变未来。
And it's one of the very special things about founders that are great is they recognize, they notice things that we don't know.
创始人最特别的事情之一就是他们认识到、注意到我们不知道的事情。
All of us tend to just follow the patterns we've always followed because most of us tend to assume that tomorrow will be similar to yesterday, but sometimes the founder will notice an inflection.
我们所有人都倾向于遵循我们一直遵循的模式，因为我们大多数人倾向于假设明天将与昨天相似，但有时创始人会注意到变化。
And I find that kind of inspiring because inflections are all around us all the time, but most of us just don't bother to look.
我觉得这种启发很鼓舞人心，因为变化一直在我们周围，但我们大多数人只是懒得去寻找。
Most of us are so busy going about our day to day that we don't notice the emergence of a new empowering thing right under our nose or right in our pockets, but some founders do.
我们大多数人都如此忙碌，以至于我们没有注意到一种新的赋权事物就在我们的眼皮底下或在我们的口袋里出现，但一些创始人却注意到了。
Lenny Rachitsky: It makes me think about ChatGPT when it came out, it was sitting on top of an existing model and it just gave people a new interface to use it, and all of a sudden, everyone crazy, they're like, "Oh my God, that's the future." But it was already there.
Lenny Rachitsky：这让我想起 ChatGPT 刚推出时的情况，它建立在现有模型之上，只是为人们提供了一个新的使用界面，突然之间，每个人都疯狂了，他们会说，“天哪，这就是未来。”但它已经在那里了。
You couldn't chat with it the way that people wanted to chat.
你无法按照人们想要的方式与它聊天。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Like Michael Saylor, once I was talking to him and he said, the Romans could have invented the printing press a lot earlier.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：就像迈克尔·塞勒一样，有一次我和他交谈时，他说，罗马人本可以更早发明印刷机。
They had sandals that would make marks in the mud.
他们有可以在泥里留下痕迹的凉鞋。
You could have, in theory, drawn the connection between those marks in the mud and the ability to have movable type and letterpress, but nobody did.
从理论上讲，你可以将泥浆中的这些标记与活字印刷和凸版印刷的能力之间的联系联系起来，但没有人这样做。
And so quite often these inflections, they'll just go unrecognized for a while, but they're always there.
因此，这些变化常常会暂时被忽视，但它们始终存在。
They're always there.
他们总是在那里。
They're there right now.
他们现在就在那里。
In the ambient atmosphere, there's somebody about to harness an inflection that most of us would just walk right by and never see.
在周围的氛围中，有人即将利用我们大多数人只是路过而从未看到的变化。
Lenny Rachitsky: Wow, my mind is racing, what's out there right now.
Lenny Rachitsky：哇，我的脑子在飞速运转，现在发生了什么。
Obviously AI is top of mind for a lot of people.
显然，人工智能是很多人最关心的问题。
I know you're stickler for what is an inflection, what does not?
我知道你对什么是词形变化很执着，什么不是？
Do you consider AI an inflection?
您认为人工智能是一种变形吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: I would say that I would probably be a little more specific about it.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我想说我可能会更具体一些。
So I might say that certain large language models are an inflection because when I think about an inflection, and one of the things I emphasize in the book is stress tests.
所以我可能会说某些大型语言模型是一种变形，因为当我想到变形时，我在书中强调的事情之一就是压力测试。
So it's funny, founders never really come to me and say, "Hey, can you help me come up with a good idea?" They would think they're weak sauce if they had to do that, right?
所以很有趣的是，创始人从来没有真正来找我说，“嘿，你能帮我想出一个好主意吗？”如果他们不得不这样做，他们会认为自己很弱，对吗？
So usually what's the more common occurrence is they'll say, "I've got this idea, what do you think about it?" And so what I can say to them is, "It's not my place to have an opinion, but let me just ask you, does it embody one or more inflections?"
所以通常更常见的情况是他们会说，“我有这个想法，你觉得怎么样？”所以我可以对他们说的是，“这不是我发表意见的地方，但让我问你，它是否体现了一种或多种变形？”
Mike Maples, Jr.: And if it does, there's a few we could stress test that we can say, "What is the specific new thing that was just introduced?
Mike Maples, Jr.：如果确实如此，我们可以对一些内容进行压力测试，我们可以说，“刚刚推出的具体新事物是什么？
How does it empower people?
它如何赋予人们权力？
How does it specifically empower specific people in specific ways?
它如何以特定的方式具体地赋予特定的人权力？
And under what conditions might that empowerment be realized?
在什么条件下可以实现这种赋权？
And under what conditions might it not be?" Because nuclear power has existed for a long, long time, but we haven't built any new nuclear power plants in 50 years.
在什么条件下可能不会呢？”因为核电已经存在了很长很长的时间，但是我们已经有50年没有建造任何新的核电站了。
And so just because you have a power doesn't mean it's going to get used.
因此，仅仅因为你拥有某种力量并不意味着它就会被使用。
It could get regulated out of existence.
它可能会受到监管而消失。
Customers could decide they don't want it.
客户可以决定他们不想要它。
And so we want to answer all three things.
所以我们想回答所有三件事。
What's the specific new thing?
具体的新内容是什么？
What is the specific form of empowerment it offers and to who?
它提供的具体赋权形式是什么？向谁提供？
Mike Maples, Jr.: And under what are the empowerment conditions?
Mike Maples, Jr.：授权条件是什么？
So like with the selection for Lyft, the inflection was the new thing was the iPhone 4s with the GPS chip, the empowerment was you can locate anyone within one meter accuracy with an algorithm, and that's going to be pretty much anybody with a smartphone.
就像 Lyft 的选择一样，变化是新事物是带有 GPS 芯片的 iPhone 4s，它的授权是你可以通过算法在一米精度内定位任何人，而这几乎是任何拥有智能手机的人。
And that's a lot of people.
那是很多人。
And in order for this to be met, people are going to have to want to share their location information with applications.
为了满足这一点，人们必须希望与应用程序共享他们的位置信息。
The government's going to have to not outlaw GPS chips and phones.
政府不得禁止 GPS 芯片和手机。
Apple's going to have to keep wanting to ship GPS chips and phones.
苹果将不得不继续销售 GPS 芯片和手机。
And we felt like those were pretty reasonable bets.
我们觉得这些都是相当合理的赌注。
We felt like it's pretty likely those empowerment condition will be met.
我们认为这些授权条件很可能会得到满足。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
I was just going to ask for an example.
我只是想问一个例子。
You already provided one.
你已经提供了一份。
What about in terms of Twitch?
那么 Twitch 方面呢？
What was the inflection there?
那里有什么变化？
Mike Maples, Jr.: I think there were a couple.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我认为有几个。
The first was the shift towards user generated content and sort of internet celebrities.
第一个是向用户生成内容和网络名人的转变。
Justin Kan wanted to be an influencer before there was a term to describe it, right?
在有一个术语来描述它之前，Justin Kan 就想成为一名有影响力的人，对吗？
He was really building the product that he wanted for himself.
他确实是在为自己打造他想要的产品。
But right before Twitch or right before Justin.tv, which was the original company, Time's person of the year had been you, and they had YouTube on the cover of the magazine.
但就在 Twitch 之前，或者就在 Justin.tv（它是最初的公司）之前，《时代》杂志的年度人物就是你，而且他们的杂志封面上还刊登了 YouTube。
And so you had, that was a major turning point in how entertainment was happening.
所以，这是娱乐发生方式的一个重大转折点。
But simultaneously, broadband penetration had reached critical mass.
但与此同时，宽带普及率已达到临界点。
The CDNs were getting really good, we thought that they would get better.
CDN 变得非常好，我们认为它们会变得更好。
And so you were in a situation where the conditions to live stream video for the first time broadly over the internet were being met.
因此，您处于首次在互联网上广泛直播视频的条件得到满足的情况。
Whereas you could have done that even two years before.
而两年前你就可以做到这一点。
In fact, Kyle Vought had to invent some pretty miraculous stuff to even make it work when they did.
事实上，凯尔·沃特必须发明一些非常神奇的东西才能使其发挥作用。
But you could see how, okay, once video starts streaming on the internet in real time, that could be a thing.
但你可以看到，一旦视频开始在互联网上实时流式传输，这可能会成为一件事。
You could just see how that would be a thing if it worked.
你可以看到如果它有效的话会是怎样的事情。
And so I'd say those are the inflections.
所以我想说这些都是词形变化。
Airbnb, company close to both of our hearts for different reasons.
Airbnb，一家因不同原因而与我们心心相印的公司。
They benefited, I think from a couple things.
我认为他们受益于几件事。
One was the proliferation of customer reviews online and people's trust of reviews as a substitute for trusting the brand of a hotel.
其中之一是网上客户评论的激增，以及人们对评论的信任取代了对酒店品牌的信任。
But then also Facebook Connect made it possible to pass people's profile information.
但随后 Facebook Connect 也使得传递人们的个人资料信息成为可能。
And so the guest and the host didn't quite seem like as much of a stranger as they might've.
因此，客人和主人看起来并不像他们想象的那么陌生。
And so there were a few things that happened at the same time, and then the great financial crisis.
因此，同时发生了一些事情，然后发生了巨大的金融危机。
And so you had people upside down on their houses needing to find some way to generate income.
因此，人们的房子翻了个底朝天，需要找到某种方式来创收。
So all of those things came together at the same time to help Airbnb.
因此，所有这些事情同时聚集在一起，可以帮助 Airbnb。
Lenny Rachitsky: The examples you shared are a good reminder that the inflection doesn't have to be technological.
Lenny Rachitsky：您分享的例子很好地提醒我们，这种变化不一定是技术性的。
You shared a few of the categories of types of inflections.
您分享了一些词形变化类型的类别。
Can you just do that again?
你能再这样做一次吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: I love that question, and I'm glad you reminded me because here's a really recent example.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我喜欢这个问题，我很高兴你提醒我，因为这是一个最近的例子。
When the laws were changed because of shelter-in-place for telemedicine visits, it used to be illegal to do a telemedicine visit across state lines.
当法律因远程医疗就地避难而改变时，跨州进行远程医疗访问曾经是非法的。
But now all of a sudden with COVID and shelter-at-place, not only was it made legal, but it could even be reimbursed by the healthcare system.
但现在突然之间，随着新冠疫情和就地避难，它不仅变得合法，而且甚至可以得到医疗保健系统的报销。
And so that's an inflection because it empowers patients to access more doctors, and it empowers doctors to access more patients, and it also changes the delivery mechanism in an empowering way.
所以这是一种变形，因为它使患者能够接触更多的医生，使医生能够接触更多的患者，而且它还以一种赋权的方式改变了交付机制。
Mike Maples, Jr.: In no event was that a technology change, that was a regulatory change that allowed technology to be empowering in new ways, but it was a specific new thing that meets that condition.
Mike Maples, Jr.：在任何情况下，这都不是技术变革，而是允许技术以新方式赋能的监管变革，但它是满足该条件的特定新事物。
It empowered specific people in specific ways, and there was a new set of empowerment conditions that ended up being made.
它以特定的方式赋予特定的人权力，并最终制定了一套新的赋权条件。
And one of the things that we would ask at the time was, once COVID and shelter-at-place goes away, are they going to revert back to the old laws?
我们当时要问的一件事是，一旦新冠病毒和就地庇护所消失，他们会恢复到旧的法律吗？
And if they did, that would've been a problem.
如果他们这样做了，那将是一个问题。
And so that would be the empowerment condition, but it's a fairly robust way of stress testing any inflection, right?
所以这将是赋权条件，但这是对任何变化进行压力测试的相当强大的方式，对吗？
Is to ask those three or four questions.
就是问那三四个问题。
Lenny Rachitsky: So there's regulatory inflections, big changes in regulation, there's technological, there's also, I think you implied an attitude, like the way people see
Lenny Rachitsky：所以有监管方面的变化，监管方面的巨大变化，有技术，还有，我认为你暗示了一种态度，就像人们看待的方式一样
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, there can be a belief inflection.
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：是的，信念可能会发生变化。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So for example, during COVID, the amount of telemedicine visits exploded.
Mike Maples, Jr.：例如，在新冠疫情期间，远程医疗就诊的数量呈爆炸式增长。
And so as a result, there was a permanent change in people's belief about whether they would want to do a telemedicine visit.
因此，人们对于是否愿意进行远程医疗就诊的信念发生了永久性的改变。
Before that, the technology was there, but a lot of people just didn't do it.
在此之前，技术已经有了，但很多人只是没有去做。
The doctors didn't want to or decide to, or the patients didn't want to decide to.
医生不想或决定这样做，或者患者不想决定这样做。
But now all of a sudden people were doing it, they're like, "This is much better.
但现在突然人们开始这么做了，他们会说：“这好多了。
I'd much rather do it this way than go visit the doctor and wait in line and all that stuff." And the doctor's like, "I'd much rather do this than have these people backed up in my office." I would argue that here we are doing a podcast on a video platform, even though it's not Zoom, I would say that Zoom was another example.
我宁愿这样做，也不愿去看医生、排队等诸如此类的事情。”医生说：“我宁愿这样做，也不愿让这些人待在我的办公室里。”我想说的是，我们在这里在视频平台上做播客，即使它不是 Zoom，我想说 Zoom 是另一个例子。
The idea of people working from home a reasonable number of days a week is a permanent condition, I think is another inflection that happened with COVID.
人们每周在家工作合理天数的想法是一种永久性的情况，我认为这是新冠疫情带来的另一个变化。
Lenny Rachitsky: And so are those the three, regulatory, technological, and belief?
Lenny Rachitsky：监管、技术和信仰这三个因素是什么呢？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Those are the main ones.
Mike Maples, Jr.：这些是主要的。
And I would say that in many ways you could say that from a macro point of view, it's two things.
我想说，从很多方面来说，从宏观的角度来看，这是两件事。
It's technology changing enablement, and it's people socially changing their beliefs and their patterns of behavior.
它是技术改变的实现，它是人们在社会上改变他们的信仰和行为模式。
And either one of those changes can be an inflection because either one of those changes can represent a turning point in one's capacity to change the future.
这些变化中的任何一个都可能是一种转折，因为这些变化中的任何一个都可以代表一个人改变未来的能力的转折点。
Mike Maples, Jr.: ...
小迈克·梅普尔斯：...
point in one's capacity to change the future.
表明一个人改变未来的能力。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing, okay, so we've talked about inflection, the next bucket is, in the next element of breakthrough companies that you found is an insight.
Lenny Rachitsky：太棒了，好吧，我们已经讨论了拐点，下一个桶是，在您发现的突破性公司的下一个元素中，是一种洞察力。
Talk about that.
谈谈那个。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, so unlike an inflection, an insight does come from the founders.
Mike Maples, Jr.：是的，与变形不同，洞察力确实来自创始人。
An insight, I like to say, is a non-obvious truth about how one or more inflections can be harnessed to change people's behavior.
我想说，洞察力是关于如何利用一种或多种语态变化来改变人们行为的非显而易见的事实。
So in the example that we gave earlier with Lyft, the inflection was the iPhone 4S, insight was, oh, that means you could do Airbnb for cars.
因此，在我们之前提供的 Lyft 示例中，变形是 iPhone 4S，洞察力是，哦，这意味着你可以为汽车提供 Airbnb。
And so, you had to have some type of a creative insight to see that.
因此，你必须具有某种创造性的洞察力才能看到这一点。
Now, what was non-obvious about it, or non-consensus about it, who's going to want to get in a stranger's car?
现在，有什么不明显的地方，或者没有达成共识的地方，谁会想坐陌生人的车呢？
That's crazy, right?
这太疯狂了，对吧？
And thank God ...
感谢上帝...
I mean, if there's one piece of goodness about us passing on air bed and breakfast design, Anne and I were like, man, nobody's going to want to stay in a stranger's house, that's crazy.
我的意思是，如果我们传递空中住宿加早餐设计有一点好处的话，安妮和我就会想，伙计，没有人愿意住在陌生人的房子里，那太疯狂了。
And at the time, air bed and breakfast, the host of the guest stayed in the house at the same time, and the host would feed Pop-Tarts or something like that to the guest the next morning.
而且当时的空中民宿，客人的主人同时住在屋里，第二天早上主人就会给客人喂蛋挞什么的。
Mike Maples, Jr.: This is right around the time of the Craigslist killings and stuff, where this is just scary and kind of crazy, couchsurfing as a service.
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：这正是 Craigslist 杀戮之类的事情发生的时候，沙发客作为一项服务，这真是太可怕了，而且有点疯狂。
But by the time we saw what was Zimride at the time, what became Lyft, Anne and I were much more prepared to believe that insight than we would've been because we'd foolishly passed on Airbnb.
但当我们看到当时的 Zimride、后来的 Lyft 时，安妮和我更愿意相信这种洞察力，因为我们愚蠢地放弃了 Airbnb。
So that's a really important aspect of insights.
所以这是洞察力非常重要的一个方面。
So the insight needs to leverage inflections, but this is the subtle part, it needs to be non-consensus and right, not just right.
因此，洞察力需要利用变形，但这是微妙的部分，它需要非共识且正确，而不仅仅是正确。
So in the world of opportunities, if you're right and consensus, you still don't do that well.
所以，在充满机遇的世界里，即使你是正确的、达成了共识，你仍然做得不好。
And an idea that is right but consensus has a couple problems to it.
一个想法是正确的，但共识存在一些问题。
One is, if it's consensus, it's probably not radical enough.
一是，如果这是共识，那么它可能还不够激进。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Because when you think about it, human beings are conditioned to like things, and so, if everybody likes your startup idea, it means it's too similar to what they already know, what they're familiar with, which means it's probably too similar to the consensus, it's too similar to the incumbents, and so, the best startup ideas have this trait where most people don't like it or are even hostile to it, or just kind of meh about it.
Mike Maples, Jr.：因为当你想到这一点时，人类习惯于喜欢事物，所以，如果每个人都喜欢你的创业想法，这意味着它与他们已经知道的、他们熟悉的东西太相似，这意味着它可能与共识太相似，与现任者太相似，所以，最好的创业想法具有这种特征，大多数人不喜欢它，甚至敌视它，或者只是对此感到无聊。
But some subset of people are just like, where have you been all my life?
但有些人会问，我这辈子你都去哪儿了？
This is amazing, I love this.
这太棒了，我喜欢这个。
They fall irrationally in love with the idea.
他们非理性地爱上了这个想法。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so, most of the great startups that I've seen have that attribute to them, and the reason is that a great startup, unlike a conventional company that proposes the future as an extension of the present, so that ...
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以，我见过的大多数伟大的初创公司都具有这种属性，原因是，伟大的初创公司不像传统公司那样将未来视为现在的延伸，因此......
Normal companies forecast, they say, I'm going to look forward from the present and forward project what the future will be.
他们说，普通公司预测，我将从现在开始展望未来。
Great founders, pattern breakers back cast, they say, it's a given that the future has to be radically different for me to be a big winner, and so, I'm going to look for radically different futures and work backwards from those radically different futures.
他们说，伟大的创始人、模式打破者，要成为大赢家，未来必须完全不同，所以，我将寻找完全不同的未来，并从那些完全不同的未来开始逆向工作。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so, the radically different future comes from that thinking different, thinking non-consensus.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：因此，完全不同的未来来自于不同的思维、非共识的思维。
And then, it's the different actions that get you to say, okay, now I'm out in this different future, but right now, I'm all alone in this different future.
然后，正是不同的行为让你说，好吧，现在我在这个不同的未来，但现在，我独自一人在这个不同的未来。
I have to get people to come join me in that different future, and I have to find people who are ready to move with me to that different future.
我必须让人们加入我的行列，进入那个不同的未来，我必须找到愿意与我一起走向那个不同未来的人。
And that's where the pattern breaking actions come in.
这就是打破模式的行动发挥作用的地方。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And not everybody's going to move at first, and so, I can't waste my time with people who won't move, I can't waste any URGs of energy on anybody other than those ready to move or are about to move.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：并不是每个人一开始都会搬家，所以，我不能把时间浪费在那些不会搬家的人身上，我不能把任何精力浪费在除了那些准备搬家或即将搬家的人之外的任何人身上。
And then, I need to co-create the future with those early believers.
然后，我需要与那些早期的信徒共同创造未来。
And so, great startups happen when a subset of people in this world buy into the founder's insight, and then move with them to co-create that future.
因此，当这个世界上的一部分人相信创始人的洞察力，然后与他们一起共同创造未来时，伟大的初创公司就会诞生。
And then, eventually, what was a heresy becomes the conventional wisdom as more and more people start to realize the advantage of it.
然后，最终，随着越来越多的人开始意识到它的优势，异端邪说变成了传统智慧。
Lenny Rachitsky: There's so many threads I want to follow here, one is the Airbnb story.
Lenny Rachitsky：我想关注的话题有很多，其中之一是 Airbnb 的故事。
Interestingly enough, I had Jessica Livingston on the podcast recently, and you probably know this, but Paula Graham and her did not like the Airbnb idea.
有趣的是，最近我在播客上邀请了杰西卡·利文斯顿（Jessica Livingston），你可能知道这一点，但保拉·格雷厄姆（Paula Graham）和她不喜欢 Airbnb 的想法。
They all were like, this is a terrible idea, we are going to assume they will change the idea, but we love the founders, we're going to take a bet on them.
他们都说，这是一个糟糕的想法，我们假设他们会改变这个想法，但我们爱创始人，我们会在他们身上下注。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So I was introduced to the guys by Michael Seibel, who was one of the co-founders of Justin.tv Twitch, and Michael introduced me to Brian Chesky before they applied to Y Combinator.
Mike Maples, Jr.：迈克尔·塞贝尔 (Michael Seibel) 向我介绍了这些人，他是 Justin.tv Twitch 的联合创始人之一，在他们申请 Y Combinator 之前，迈克尔又向我介绍了布莱恩·切斯基 (Brian Chesky)。
So Michael's like, they're not even close to ready to apply to YC, but he thought that I maybe would think that it was the right kind of crazy.
所以迈克尔说，他们甚至还没有准备好申请 YC，但他认为我可能会认为这是一种正确的疯狂。
I get pitched by a lot of ...
我被很多人推销...
I'm not very off put by crazy ideas.
我并不会对疯狂的想法感到反感。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And the meeting was totally discombobulated, so room full of cereal boxes, I'm like, what's up with this?
小迈克·梅普尔斯：会议完全混乱，房间里堆满了麦片盒，我想，这是怎么回事？
Why is there cereal here?
这里怎么会有麦片？
And then, he can't get the product to work, and I'm like, okay, that's okay, let's just look at the slides.
然后，他无法让产品发挥作用，我就说，好吧，没关系，让我们看看幻灯片吧。
And he goes, well, Michael Seibel told me that you don't slides, you like demos.
他说，好吧，迈克尔·塞贝尔告诉我，你不喜欢幻灯片，你喜欢演示。
And I was like, that's true, but it's not working.
我当时想，这是真的，但它不起作用。
So we're like, 20 minutes into this meeting in a room full of cereal boxes just looking at each other.
所以，会议开始 20 分钟后，我们在一个装满麦片盒的房间里互相看着对方。
And you can't win them all, right?
而且你不可能赢得所有人，对吧？
You win some, you lose some.
你赢得一些，你失去一些。
Lenny Rachitsky: I wouldn't blame myself if I were you, .
Lenny Rachitsky：如果我是你，我就不会责怪自己。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Here's the other thing that's hilarious about Airbnb, so they do this thing because they can't pay their rent.
Mike Maples, Jr.：这是 Airbnb 的另一件有趣的事情，他们这样做是因为他们付不起房租。
They put up this WordPress site to pay for their rent because there's a design conference in San Francisco.
他们建立了这个 WordPress 网站来支付租金，因为旧金山有一个设计会议。
In the meantime, they're brainstorming startup ideas, so they wanted to do a startup together, but it never occurred to them at first that air bed and breakfast was the startup idea.
与此同时，他们正在集思广益，所以他们想一起创业，但他们一开始并没有想到空中住宿加早餐是他们的创业想法。
They're like, we just need to use that to make money so we can go do a real startup.
他们就像，我们只需要用它来赚钱，这样我们就可以去做一个真正的创业公司。
And so, that's the irony, too, is that, you look back on it and almost smile at the fact that they didn't know what they even had at first, it was almost an accident.
所以，这也是一个讽刺，那就是，当你回顾过去时，几乎会微笑着发现他们一开始甚至不知道自己拥有什么，这几乎是一个意外。
Lenny Rachitsky: There's a lesson there of, you find something that works, and even if you don't think it's a big idea, don't take that for granted.
Lenny Rachitsky：这里有一个教训，你会发现一些可行的东西，即使你认为这不是一个好主意，也不要认为这是理所当然的。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Oh, I very agree.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：哦，我非常同意。
And the other great lesson is, you don't want your initial startup bets to be too big to fail.
另一个重要的教训是，你不希望你最初的创业赌注太大而不能失败。
You want ideas that are small enough to fail a lot because you don't want to be attached to success, you want to be able to just try things and play with stuff and tinker with things because you don't really know where the fractal of new insight is going to reveal itself.
你想要的想法足够小，不会经常失败，因为你不想执着于成功，你想要能够尝试一些东西，玩弄一些东西，修补一些东西，因为你真的不知道新见解的分形将在哪里显现出来。
And so, there is a little bit of play to this that I think is pretty important.
因此，我认为这其中有一些非常重要的作用。
Lenny Rachitsky: Do you remember some of the ideas they were brainstorming, by the way?
Lenny Rachitsky：顺便问一下，你还记得他们头脑风暴的一些想法吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: I don't.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我不这么认为。
I wonder if even they do.
我想知道他们是否也这样做。
Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah, probably not, probably not.
Lenny Rachitsky：是的，可能不会，可能不会。
Mike Maples, Jr.: It's probably in The Airbnb Story, their book.
Mike Maples, Jr.：这可能在他们的书《Airbnb Story》中。
Lenny Rachitsky: I feel like them failing in your demo helped prepare them for YC, and that's what helped them get in, so I think that you're a big part of their story.
Lenny Rachitsky：我觉得他们在你的演示中失败帮助他们为 YC 做好了准备，这也帮助他们进入了，所以我认为你是他们故事的重要组成部分。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And to make it even more painful, I'm in the book.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：更痛苦的是，我在书中。
Somebody called my wife Julie the other day and said, is that your husband in the Airbnb story?
有一天，有人打电话给我的妻子朱莉，说，那是 Airbnb 故事中你的丈夫吗？
And we get the book, and there's a chapter, and it talks about how hard it was to raise money.
我们拿到了这本书，其中有一章讲述了筹集资金有多么困难。
And they weren't dissing on me as a dumb VC, they were like, look how bad we were at presenting this at first.
他们并没有嘲笑我是一个愚蠢的风险投资人，他们的意思是，看看我们一开始展示这个的时候有多糟糕。
It was just a complete catastrophe presentation.
这简直就是一场彻底的灾难演示。
But that's another good lesson for me, too, I learned a very permanent lesson from that, which is, just because the presentation's good or bad, it has nothing to do with whether you should necessarily invest or not.
但这对我来说也是另一个很好的教训，我从中学到了一个非常永久的教训，那就是，仅仅因为演示的好坏，它与你是否应该投资无关。
Sometimes you have to be awake to the possibility of what it's going to be regardless of how messed up the presentation is.
有时，无论演示文稿多么混乱，你都必须清醒地意识到它可能会发生什么。
Lenny Rachitsky: What was their evaluation at that point?
Lenny Rachitsky：当时他们的评价是什么？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Oh, this hurts to ...
小迈克·梅普尔斯：哦，这很痛苦......
I think he offered me a chance to invest it at $1.5 million valuation.
我认为他给了我一个以 150 万美元估值进行投资的机会。
Lenny Rachitsky: But now they're a $100 billion business, I believe.
Lenny Rachitsky：但我相信他们现在是一个价值 1000 亿美元的企业。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Oh, yeah, I would've made like, 6,000 times more money or something like that.
Mike Maples, Jr.：哦，是的，我会赚 6,000 倍以上的钱或类似的东西。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Thank God I said yes to Twitter and Justin.tv, and we said yes to Lyft and Okta, because if we'd seen all of those and passed on all of them, I'd be apoplectic.
Mike Maples, Jr.：感谢上帝，我对 Twitter 和 Justin.tv 表示同意，我们对 Lyft 和 Okta 表示同意，因为如果我们看到所有这些并传递所有这些，我会中风的。
Lenny Rachitsky: I think that's what's interesting about your stage of investing is, you just need a couple to work out for you to win.
Lenny Rachitsky：我认为您的投资阶段的有趣之处在于，您只需要几个人来锻炼就可以获胜。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, that's right.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的，没错。
And by the way, it's true when you're a founder, too, if you do this right, you only have to be right once.
顺便说一句，当你是创始人时也是如此，如果你做对了，你只需要做对一次。
And so, that's really important.
所以，这非常重要。
Lenny Rachitsky: Coming back to the insights lesson, one thing that you brought up when we were chatting about this is the importance of being surprised and the power of surprises.
Lenny Rachitsky：回到洞察力课程，当我们谈论这个问题时，您提到的一件事是惊讶的重要性和惊喜的力量。
Can you talk a bit about that?
你能谈谈这个吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, so there's a couple of things about insights that I think are really important, and this is one of them.
Mike Maples, Jr.：是的，我认为关于见解有几件事非常重要，这就是其中之一。
I believe that there can't be a recipe for breakthrough.
我相信不可能有突破的秘诀。
And why is that?
这是为什么呢？
Well, recipes exist for things that have already been discovered, so if I give you a recipe for making a cake, somebody has probably made that cake before, the exact way they're defining it.
好吧，已经发现的东西存在食谱，所以如果我给你一个制作蛋糕的食谱，有人可能以前做过那个蛋糕，就像他们定义它的确切方式一样。
And so, breakthroughs, though, by definition, haven't happened yet, they haven't been discovered.
因此，根据定义，突破还没有发生，还没有被发现。
The general theory of relativity had to be discovered by Einstein, and the idea for ride-sharing had to be discovered by the ride-sharing companies, or Airbnb, by Chesky and Nate and those guys.
广义相对论必须由爱因斯坦发现，拼车的想法必须由拼车公司（或 Airbnb）、切斯基和内特以及那些人发现。
And so, what you want to adopt is the right mindset.
因此，你要采取的是正确的心态。
And how do you adopt the right mindset?
如何采取正确的心态？
You interact with new technologies at the cutting edge, but you actively savor surprises.
您与最前沿的新技术互动，但您会积极品味惊喜。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And when you think about it through the lens of a breakthrough and what we just said, it makes sense, because if you want to find a breakthrough, you want to be surprised, you want to discover the undiscovered, you want to know something you didn't know before.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：当你从突破的角度和我们刚才所说的角度思考时，这是有道理的，因为如果你想找到突破，你想要感到惊讶，你想要发现未被发现的东西，你想要知道一些你以前不知道的东西。
Because if all you do is an experiment that proves, that validates what you think, you didn't really learn anything, when you think about it, you just doubled down on your existing understanding or opinion.
因为如果你所做的只是一个实验来证明、验证你的想法，那么你并没有真正学到任何东西，当你思考它时，你只是加倍了你现有的理解或观点。
I learned this lesson from Scott Cook, who was the founder of Intuit.
我从 Intuit 的创始人 Scott Cook 那里学到了这个教训。
Whenever he would be presented a new product, people would present the idea to him, and he would say, what were your three biggest surprises as you were coming up with this plan?
每当他推出新产品时，人们都会向他提出这个想法，他会说，当你提出这个计划时，你最大的三个惊喜是什么？
And what he would find is, quite often, they couldn't name any.
他发现，很多时候，他们都说不出名字。
And he felt like when people can't name the surprises they came up with, they're too brain locked on what they want.
他觉得当人们无法说出他们想出的惊喜时，他们的大脑就太锁定在他们想要的东西上。
They have the agenda they have, they want validation, rather than truth seeking.
他们有自己的议程，他们想要验证，而不是寻求真相。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so, if you're an authentic truth seeker, you're always hoping to be surprised, and you think of surprise as a gift, because you think, wow, maybe I encountered that surprise before anybody ever has.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：所以，如果你是一个真正的真理寻求者，你总是希望感到惊讶，并且你认为惊喜是一份礼物，因为你会想，哇，也许我比任何人都遇到过这种惊喜。
And so, that's kind of what we mean.
所以，这就是我们的意思。
And you want to construct your experiments so that you're in a position to be surprised.
你想要构建你的实验，以便你能够感到惊讶。
So a good example would've been what the guys at Chegg did.
Chegg 的人所做的就是一个很好的例子。
So Chegg was wanting to see if people would do textbook rentals, so they created a fake site called Textbook .
Chegg 想看看人们是否愿意出租教科书，所以他们创建了一个名为 Textbook 的假网站。
But here's where Osman and Aayush were very savvy.
但这正是奥斯曼和阿尤什非常精明的地方。
Rather than just test whether people would rent a $100 dollar textbook for $35, they tested an arbitrary set of prices, all the way up to $75.
他们不仅仅测试人们是否愿意以 35 美元的价格租一本 100 美元的教科书，而是测试了一组任意的价格，一直到 75 美元。
And so, they had the demand preference curve at different prices.
因此，他们有不同价格的需求偏好曲线。
And Textbook wasn't a real site, so you'd get to the shopping cart and it would give you a 404 error.
而且 Textbook 并不是一个真实的网站，因此您进入购物车时会出现 404 错误。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But we could tell that people wanted to rent textbooks, and the surprise was that they would rent them for more than we thought.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：但我们可以看出人们想要租教科书，令人惊讶的是他们租用教科书的价格比我们想象的要高。
We thought we need to get at least 35, but some students were willing to pay 75.
我们认为至少需要 35，但有些学生愿意支付 75。
And so, that understanding was huge, if we'd only done an experiment to validate the hypothesis of, yes, will they rent it for 35, our pricing model would've been totally different from, oh, wow.
所以，这种理解是巨大的，如果我们只做一个实验来验证假设，是的，他们会以 35 美元的价格出租它，我们的定价模型将完全不同于，哦，哇。
And when you think about it, it makes sense, the student didn't want to keep the textbook.
仔细想想，这是有道理的，学生不想保留课本。
Econ 101, I'm going to give it back anyway, so 75 bucks is less than 100, I can buy beer with the extra money.
Econ 101，反正我要还给它，所以75块钱不到100，我可以用多余的钱买啤酒。
So that would be an example of the surprise.
这就是惊喜的一个例子。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But most of the startups that have had great outcomes, I find, there was a kind of surprise like that.
Mike Maples, Jr.：但我发现，大多数取得了巨大成果的初创公司都会有这样的惊喜。
Being non-consensus is not the same as being contrarian.
不达成共识并不等于逆向思维。
Being contrarian is another form of conformity because it's still relative to somebody else.
逆向思维是另一种形式的从众，因为它仍然与其他人相关。
Most of the great founders I see, they almost feel guilty that they found this secret, but they earned the secret by tinkering with the future and noticing surprises, and having their noticing filter tuned to volume 11, where most of us wouldn't notice it, most of us would just pass the secret right by because we're looking to validate what we think is already true.
我见过的大多数伟大的创始人，他们几乎为发现这个秘密而感到内疚，但他们通过修补未来和注意到惊喜而赢得了这个秘密，并将他们的注意过滤器调整到第11卷，而我们大多数人都不会注意到它，我们大多数人都会直接忽略这个秘密，因为我们正在寻求验证我们认为已经正确的东西。
Lenny Rachitsky: You referenced this term that is also one I love that you use occasionally, this earned secret.
Lenny Rachitsky：你提到了这个术语，我也喜欢你偶尔使用的这个术语，这是赢得的秘密。
Can you talk a bit about that?
你能谈谈这个吗？
It's basically the same idea that you uncovered something by trying things that no one else has seen yet.
这基本上与通过尝试其他人尚未见过的事物来发现某些事物的想法相同。
Is that the general idea?
这是一般的想法吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: So to me, secrets are earned.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以对我来说，秘密是赢得的。
A lot of people, I think, have the wrong idea of what vision is.
我认为很多人对于愿景是什么有错误的认识。
A lot of people tend to think visionaries as like, they have a special pair of binoculars, and they can look out farther than the rest of us can.
很多人倾向于认为有远见的人就像是，他们有一副特殊的双筒望远镜，他们可以比我们其他人看得更远。
But in my experience, that's not how inventions really happen, the way inventions happen is, people get their hands dirty and they learn about what's missing in the future because they're getting their hands dirty with what's new about it.
但根据我的经验，发明真正发生的方式并不是这样，发明发生的方式是，人们亲自动手，他们了解未来缺少什么，因为他们正在亲自接触新的东西。
And so, they earn the secret by going down this rabbit hole of exploring something at the cutting edge for its own sake.
因此，他们通过深入探索前沿事物的兔子洞来获得秘密。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And just like I'm a trained spotter for startups, they become a trained spotter for this new thing that they're excited about.
Mike Maples, Jr.：就像我是初创公司训练有素的观察员一样，他们也成为他们感兴趣的新事物的训练有素的观察员。
And they frustrate the people around them, they'll be at a party, and everybody's talking about the basketball game, the Celtics against the Mavs, and somehow that reminds them of the fact that they want to test prices for textbook .
他们让周围的人感到沮丧，他们会参加一个聚会，每个人都在谈论篮球比赛，凯尔特人对阵小牛，不知怎的，这让他们想起了他们想要测试教科书价格的事实。
But they're that interested, it's the last thing they think about when they go to bed, the first thing they think about when they wake up.
但他们就是那么感兴趣，这是他们睡觉时想到的最后一件事，也是他们醒来时想到的第一件事。
And so, that's where I find most of the really great earned secrets come from, they're earned in the sense that you earn them by getting your hands dirty, and you earn them by being awake to the possibility that secrets are there or that just most people aren't looking.
所以，这就是我发现大多数真正伟大的秘密的来源，它们是通过你自己动手而获得的，并且你通过意识到秘密存在的可能性或大多数人都没有注意而获得它们。
Lenny Rachitsky: This connects with that stat that you shared, that 80% of your biggest returning investments came from a pivot.
Lenny Rachitsky：这与您分享的统计数据有关，您最大的投资回报 80% 来自支点。
It all connects, where you're just trying stuff, you're learning, seeing things people haven't tried.
这一切都是相互联系的，你只是在尝试一些东西，你在学习，看到人们没有尝试过的东西。
Mike Maples, Jr.: That's right, and in the early days of product market fit, I like to say we want to answer a very simple but profound question.
Mike Maples, Jr.：是的，在产品市场适应的早期，我想说我们想要回答一个非常简单但深刻的问题。
What can we uniquely offer that people are desperate for?
我们能提供人们迫切渴望的独特产品吗？
And if we have an insight, that makes us unique.
如果我们有洞察力，那我们就会独一无二。
Now, if a customer doesn't like your idea, a couple of things could be true.
现在，如果客户不喜欢你的想法，有几件事可能是真的。
One is, your insight could be wrong.
一是，你的见解可能是错误的。
If your insight's wrong, you don't have a startup, you should just stop.
如果你的见解是错误的，那么你就没有一家初创公司，你应该停止。
The other thing, though, that could be true is, your implementation is wrong.
但另一件事可能是真的，您的实现是错误的。
So you had the right insight.
所以你有正确的洞察力。
So like Okta, at first, they wanted to do cloud systems management, they thought that they needed to do problem resolution, but when they showed it to customers, they were kind of meh about it.
就像 Okta 一样，一开始他们想做云系统管理，他们认为他们需要解决问题，但当他们向客户展示它时，他们对此感到有些茫然。
And they said, well, why are you meh about this?
他们说，好吧，你为什么对此感到困惑？
And they said, well, it's not a top priority.
他们说，好吧，这不是首要任务。
And they said, what is your top priority?
他们说，你的首要任务是什么？
And they said, identity management.
他们说，身份管理。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So they had the right insight, which was, customers would struggle to manage cloud services, but they had the wrong implementation of the insight, so then they came back with identity management, and it worked.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以他们有正确的洞察力，即客户将很难管理云服务，但他们错误地实施了这种洞察力，所以他们回来了身份管理，并且它起作用了。
So if somebody doesn't like your idea, if they're not desperate for it, either the insight's wrong, the implementation's wrong, or you could be talking to the wrong customer.
因此，如果有人不喜欢你的想法，如果他们不迫切地想要它，那么要么是洞察力错误，要么是实施错误，要么你可能在与错误的客户交谈。
Some people that Okta talked to wanted to integrate it with on-prem software.
Okta 采访过的一些人希望将其与本地软件集成。
And in that case, their opinion's irrelevant because they're not an innovative customer, they're not living in the future, they're not going to give you product requirement ideas that are additive to your strategy.
在这种情况下，他们的意见是无关紧要的，因为他们不是创新客户，他们不是生活在未来，他们不会为您提供可添加到您的策略中的产品需求想法。
And so, you want to be, right insight, right inflections, right implementation, right early believers that you're talking to, as you iterate towards product market fit.
因此，当您迭代产品市场契合度时，您希望成为与您交谈的正确的洞察力、正确的变化、正确的实施、正确的早期信徒。
And if you're not succeeding at product market fit, then one or more of those variables isn't working yet.
如果您在产品市场契合度方面没有取得成功，那么这些变量中的一个或多个还没有发挥作用。
Lenny Rachitsky: I think this might be a good time to remind people that you don't need to have every one of these for your business to potentially be a huge success.
Lenny Rachitsky：我认为现在可能是一个提醒人们的好时机，你的企业并不需要拥有所有这些才能获得巨大的成功。
It's more that, the more you have, the more likely it is that you will find something massive.
更重要的是，你拥有的越多，你就越有可能发现一些巨大的东西。
Is that right?
是这样吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: That's right.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：没错。
And this is the hard part about being non-consensus and right is, you don't know for sure that you're right at first, you only know that you're non-consensus.
这是非共识的难点，正确的是，你一开始并不确定自己是对的，你只知道你是非共识。
And so, you have to be willing to risk being wrong to be spectacularly right.
因此，你必须愿意冒犯错的风险，才能获得惊人的正确。
And so, what you're trying to do, though, is pursue opportunities where the odds are massively in your favor.
因此，你要做的就是寻找机会，让机会对你有利。
And so, I kind of return back to, business is never a fair fight.
所以，我又回到了，商业从来就不是一场公平的战斗。
And so, if I'm a founder, there's a universe of ideas I can pursue.
因此，如果我是创始人，我可以追求各种各样的想法。
The mistake that a lot of founders make, and it's very understandable, they say, I want to go after big market opportunities.
很多创始人犯的错误是可以理解的，他们说，我想追求大的市场机会。
So they analyze big markets, they find unserved customers with unmet needs in under-addressed markets, so then they go build a product to go solve that problem.
因此，他们分析大市场，在未得到充分解决的市场中找到未得到服务且需求未得到满足的客户，然后他们开始开发产品来解决该问题。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And that's very appealing, because it seems obvious, and the dots connect forward in an obvious way.
Mike Maples, Jr.：这非常吸引人，因为它看起来很明显，而且这些点以明显的方式向前连接。
But unwittingly, it buys into a context, it buys into the current definition of the market, which was already set by the incumbents.
但不知不觉中，它接受了一种背景，接受了当前市场的定义，而这个定义已经由现任者设定了。
And so, what you instead want to do is pursue a slightly more ambiguous opportunity, but one that harnesses these powers.
因此，你想做的是追求一个稍微模糊的机会，但可以利用这些力量。
Ones where you look at the inflection and you say, wow, that's really powerful, you look at the insight, and you say, yeah, I know that this is going to be, in the future, I know that this is where things are going to be radically different someday.
当你看到这种变化时，你会说，哇，这真的很强大，当你看到洞察力时，你会说，是的，我知道这将会是，在未来，我知道这就是有一天事情会发生根本不同的地方。
I would rather have those things present and be willing to pivot the product than not have those things and have a much clearer idea of what the product should be.
我宁愿拥有这些东西并愿意调整产品，而不是没有这些东西并且对产品应该是什么有更清晰的想法。
Lenny Rachitsky: Funny enough, one of my biggest investment successes that exactly what you're saying you shouldn't do, which is, they looked at a huge market with a bad incumbent and built something better, and it's working.
Lenny Rachitsky：有趣的是，我最大的投资成功之一正是你所说的你不应该做的事情，那就是，他们着眼于一个巨大的市场，但现任者却很糟糕，并建立了更好的东西，而且它正在发挥作用。
But I think, again, it's not that you can't win that way, your point and your research shows that your chances are a lot higher doing something totally different.
但我再次认为，这并不是说你不能以这种方式获胜，你的观点和你的研究表明，你做一些完全不同的事情的机会要高得多。
Mike Maples, Jr.: That's right, and I would bet that this company ...
Mike Maples, Jr.：是的，我敢打赌这家公司......
I don't know enough about it, I don't know what it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if they harnessed inflections in some way that was disorienting to the incumbent.
我对此了解不够，我不知道它是什么，但如果他们以某种让现任者迷失方向的方式利用语调变化，我也不会感到惊讶。
It wouldn't surprise me if they found a way to use inflections to fight an unfair fight.
如果他们找到一种利用语调变化来对抗不公平战斗的方法，我不会感到惊讶。
What I try to do with the insights is, I realized there was a theory behind it.
我试图利用这些见解做的是，我意识到它背后有一个理论。
A theory is not a recipe, it's an explanation.
理论不是食谱，而是一种解释。
And what inflections let the founder do is wage asymmetric warfare on .
而变化让创始人所做的就是发动不对称战争。
And the insight is the vessel that they use, right?
洞察力就是他们使用的容器，对吗？
It's kind of like, the rock is the inflection, the slingshot is the insight that David shoots at Goliath.
这有点像，岩石是变形，弹弓是大卫向歌利亚射击的洞察力。
And so, that's what we're looking for, we're looking to create the conditions where we're going to get to play an unfair game by unfair rule to favor us.
所以，这就是我们所寻求的，我们正在寻求创造条件，让我们能够通过不公平的规则来玩不公平的游戏，以对我们有利。
Lenny Rachitsky: Great segue to the third bucket and the third element of Breakthrough Company's Future-Founder Fit.
Lenny Rachitsky：很好地延续了突破公司未来创始人契合度的第三个桶和第三个元素。
What is that?
那是什么？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, so this is one of my favorites.
Mike Maples, Jr.：是的，这是我的最爱之一。
So a lot of times, people will say, what makes a great founder?
很多时候，人们会问，什么才是伟大的创始人？
And there are some common traits, passion for the idea, persistence, resilience, all these things that people talk about, passion for the users.
它们有一些共同的特征，对想法的热情、坚持、韧性，所有这些人们谈论的事情，对用户的热情。
But what I find is that there's no canonical best founder.
但我发现没有典型的最佳创始人。
So Marc Andreessen started Netscape as a programmer making minimum wage at the University of Illinois.
因此，马克·安德森 (Marc Andreessen) 在伊利诺伊大学以一名拿着最低工资的程序员的身份创立了 Netscape。
And everybody thought the digital highway at the time was going to come from Time Warner or from Microsoft Network or from the US government, nobody thought that some kid was going to do it from the bottoms up.
当时每个人都认为数字高速公路将来自时代华纳、微软网络或美国政府，没有人认为某个孩子会自下而上地做到这一点。
But it turns out that Marc was tinkering with a set of inflections around the World Wide Web.
但事实证明，马克正在修改万维网的一系列变化。
And right around that time, Microsoft introduced a better version of Windows, and right around that time, the Pentium processor came out, so there were more and more people graphical user interface computers at the very time that browsing started to happen.
就在那个时候，微软推出了一个更好的Windows版本，就在那个时候，奔腾处理器问世了，所以在浏览开始发生的时候，图形用户界面计算机的数量越来越多。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But let's take another company more recent, Applied Intuition, makes simulation software for autonomous vehicles.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我们以另一家较新的公司 Applied Intuition 为例，该公司为自动驾驶汽车开发仿真软件。
If you're going to sell a giant contract to the CEO of a car company, he needs to look at you across the table and think, these guys can do the job.
如果你要向一家汽车公司的首席执行官出售一份巨额合同，他需要在桌子对面看着你并思考，这些人可以完成这项工作。
So Qasar and Peter, they'd grown up in Detroit in Michigan, they had worked at car companies in the past, in the big three, and then, they worked inside of Google at Waymo and Google Maps.
Qasar 和 Peter 在密歇根州底特律长大，过去曾在汽车公司、三大汽车公司工作过，然后又在 Google 内部的 Waymo 和 Google Maps 工作过。
And they'd had a successful startup before, and so if you looked, what is a team from Central Casting to do this, it would be them.
他们之前已经有过成功的创业公司，所以如果你看看 Central Casting 的团队是做什么的，那就是他们。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so, what I mean by Founder-Future Fit is, there's a set of traits that a founder can have that make them ideally suited to a certain type of future.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以，我所说的创始人与未来契合度的意思是，创始人可以拥有一系列特质，使他们非常适合某种类型的未来。
Sometimes they're really young first-time founders, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Paul Allen, we just gave the example of Marc Andreessen.
有时他们是非常年轻的首次创始人，马克·扎克伯格、比尔·盖茨、保罗·艾伦，我们刚刚举了马克·安德森的例子。
In that case, usually they're at the cutting edge of a new technology and they have a beginner's mind, and they aren't even encumbered by the old way of looking things.
在这种情况下，他们通常处于新技术的前沿，并且具有初学者的心态，他们甚至不会受到看待事物的旧方式的阻碍。
It's like, the entire world lives in Cartesian coordinates and they discover polar coordinates, and they don't even have to translate between the two because they never understood Cartesian coordinates.
就像，整个世界都生活在笛卡尔坐标中，他们发现了极坐标，他们甚至不需要在两者之间进行转换，因为他们从来不理解笛卡尔坐标。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so, in that case, their knowledge about the future is more valuable to success than their knowledge as business people.
Mike Maples, Jr.：因此，在这种情况下，他们对未来的了解比他们作为商人的知识对成功更有价值。
But in the case of Applied Intuition, if you're selling very large contracts to enterprise customers, they need to believe that you could do the job.
但就应用直觉而言，如果您向企业客户出售非常大的合同，他们需要相信您可以胜任这项工作。
If you're Okta and you're doing identity management for cloud customers, they're going to trust Todd McKinnon from Salesforce way before they're going to trust a college dropout to do that job.
如果您是 Okta 并且正在为云客户进行身份管理，那么他们会先信任来自 Salesforce 的 Todd McKinnon，然后才会信任大学辍学者来完成这项工作。
And so, I like to say Founder-Future Fit is, who knows the most about this future?
所以，我想说 Founder-Future Fit 是，谁最了解这个未来？
Who has the most intrinsic motivation to pursue it?
谁最有追求它的内在动机？
Who has the best network and keeps the best company in that ecosystem of the future?
谁拥有最好的网络并在未来的生态系统中拥有最好的公司？
Those are the types of things that ...
这些是……的类型。
Founders that show up differently on those dimensions usually do better because they're more likely to understand what to build in the first place, and they're more likely to convince early believers to believe in their ideas in the first place.
在这些维度上表现不同的创始人通常会做得更好，因为他们更有可能首先了解要构建什么，并且他们更有可能首先说服早期信徒相信他们的想法。
Lenny Rachitsky: So it's not that these people have some vision of the future that is more accurate or more incredible than everyone else, it's that their background, and even the way they look, matches the problem that they're going after.
Lenny Rachitsky：所以，并不是说这些人对未来的愿景比其他人更准确或更令人难以置信，而是他们的背景，甚至他们的外表，都与他们所追求的问题相匹配。
So in this Applied Intuition case, you're saying the founders look like people that a CEO of GM would be like, I trust these people to build this thing for me.
所以在这个应用直觉案例中，你是说创始人看起来像通用汽车首席执行官那样的人，我相信这些人会为我打造这个东西。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, Louis Pasteur once said, chance favors the prepared mind.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的，路易斯·巴斯德曾经说过，机会青睐有准备的头脑。
And when I started working on this book, for the first time, I really understood what he meant.
当我开始写这本书时，我第一次真正理解了他的意思。
Chance favors the prepared mind because a prepared mind attracts luck.
机会青睐有准备的头脑，因为有准备的头脑会吸引好运。
A prepared mind is better positioned to notice a breakthrough than other minds.
一个有准备的头脑比其他头脑更能注意到突破。
And a prepared mind sees the breakthrough, sees around the corner, because they're thinking about the subject all the time.
一个有准备的头脑会看到突破，看到即将来临，因为他们一直在思考这个主题。
And so, most people think that the way you come up with good startup ideas is to try to think of a startup.
因此，大多数人认为想出好的创业想法的方法就是尝试去思考一家创业公司。
And I like to say, no, that's exactly wrong, what you do to come up with great startup ideas is, you live in the future, and you notice what's missing in the future.
我想说，不，这是完全错误的，你所做的就是想出伟大的创业想法，你生活在未来，你会注意到未来缺少什么。
And it's axiomatic, if you're living in the future, there will be unbuilt, missing things, because if it was all built, you'd be living in the present.
这是不言而喻的，如果你生活在未来，就会有未建成的、缺失的东西，因为如果全部建成，你就会生活在现在。
And so, if you're living in the future and you notice what's missing, your intuition about what to build is far more likely to be right.
因此，如果您生活在未来并且注意到缺少什么，那么您关于要构建什么的直觉更有可能是正确的。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So Andreessen didn't do the Mosaic browser because he thought there was a market for browsers.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以安德森没有开发 Mosaic 浏览器，因为他认为浏览器有市场。
He didn't even know about a digital highway, he was trying to make the internet immediately more useful for him and his team.
他甚至不知道数字高速公路，他试图让互联网立即对他和他的团队更加有用。
And his intuition about what to build was very good because he was building the thing he wanted that was missing in the world.
他对建造什么的直觉非常好，因为他正在建造他想要的世界上缺失的东西。
In the case of Okta, they knew all the early Salesforce customers, but the principle still applies, those customers weren't equal, they were lighthouse customers.
就 Okta 而言，他们认识所有早期 Salesforce 客户，但原则仍然适用，这些客户是不平等的，他们是灯塔客户。
It was kind of like when I was at Silicon Graphics, I didn't spend time with normal movie studios, I spent time with industrial Light & Magic, because I thought, if we solve their problem, they're going to take us to the Promised Land.
这有点像我在硅谷图形公司的时候，我没有花时间在普通的电影工作室，我花时间在工业光魔，因为我想，如果我们解决了他们的问题，他们就会带我们去应许之地。
All the stuff we build for Industrial Light & Magic will be the stuff that everybody wants someday.
我们为工业光魔打造的所有产品有一天都会成为每个人都想要的东西。
And so, not all customers are equal, you want to find customers that live in the future.
因此，并非所有客户都是平等的，您希望找到生活在未来的客户。
Lenny Rachitsky: I love this point.
Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这一点。
Justin.tv is another great example of this, where he just assumed the future, everyone's going to be watching each other's reality show, so he built his own backpack with a camera just to stream himself.
Justin.tv 是另一个很好的例子，他假设未来每个人都会观看彼此的真人秀，所以他用相机制作了自己的背包，只是为了自己直播。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, and the Justin.tv example is a great one, too, because in Justin.tv, he built the thing that he wished he had, even though it was a terrible idea.
Mike Maples, Jr.：是的，Justin.tv 的例子也是一个很好的例子，因为在 Justin.tv 中，他构建了他希望拥有的东西，尽管这是一个糟糕的主意。
But it embodied attributes, it embodied these inflections of these insights that led them ultimately to Twitch.
但它体现了属性，它体现了这些见解的变形，这些见解最终引导他们走向了 Twitch。
Ironically, Justin's second company, Atrium, most people thought that that made sense, automating legal tasks.
讽刺的是，贾斯汀的第二家公司 Atrium，大多数人都认为这是有道理的，可以自动化法律任务。
And Justin's a great founder, but Justin just didn't like the legal field, he had no passion for it.
贾斯汀是一位伟大的创始人，但贾斯汀只是不喜欢法律领域，他对此没有热情。
When he started Atrium, his passion was to be a higher status founder.
当他创办 Atrium 时，他的热情是成为一名更高地位的创始人。
And I've got a podcast with him recently where he talks about this, where he's like, I wanted to be as big as Patrick Collison and Brian Chesky and Drew Houston.
我最近和他一起做了一个播客，他在其中谈论了这个，他说，我想成为像帕特里克·科里森、布莱恩·切斯基和德鲁·休斯顿一样大的人。
But it turns out, that's not a very good reason to start a company.
但事实证明，这并不是创办公司的好理由。
Founder-Future Fit is ultimately about authenticity, and it's about, who is the most authentically matched for that different radical future?
Founder-Future Fit 归根结底是关于真实性，它是关于谁最适合那个不同的激进未来？
And whoever that team is has a really big head start at getting product market fit.
无论这个团队是谁，在适应产品市场方面都具有很大的领先优势。
And product market fit is the game, whoever gets it first wins.
产品市场契合度就是一场游戏，谁先获得市场，谁就获胜。
Lenny Rachitsky: This episode is brought to you by Webflow.
Lenny Rachitsky：本集由 Webflow 为您带来。
We're all friends here, so let's be real for a second.
我们都是这里的朋友，所以让我们现实一点吧。
We all know that your website shouldn't be a static asset, it should be a dynamic part of your strategy that drives conversions.
我们都知道您的网站不应该是静态资产，它应该是推动转化的策略的动态部分。
That's Business 101.
那是商业101。
But here's a number for you.
但这是给你的一个数字。
54% of leaders say web updates take too long.
54% 的领导者表示网络更新时间太长。
That's over half of you listening right now.
现在有超过一半的人在听。
That's where Webflow comes in.
这就是 Webflow 的用武之地。
Their visual first platform allows you to build, launch, and optimize web pages fast.
他们的视觉优先平台允许您快速构建、启动和优化网页。
That means you can set ambitious business goals, and your site can rise to the challenge.
这意味着您可以设定雄心勃勃的业务目标，并且您的网站可以应对挑战。
Learn how teams like Dropbox, IDEO and Orangetheory trust Webflow to achieve their most ambitious goals today, at webflow.com.
访问 webflow.com，了解 Dropbox、IDEO 和 Orangetheory 等团队如何信任 Webflow 来实现他们最雄心勃勃的目标。
Lenny Rachitsky: Okay, so there's inflections, there's insights, there's Future-Founder Fit, to make this super real for, say, a product manager sitting at a company right now, I want to start a startup, or someone just starting to ideate on ideas, what are some things that you recommend they start to do this week, next month, to start to find a big idea, or to start an idea?
Lenny Rachitsky：好的，所以有变化，有见解，有未来创始人契合度，让这一切变得超级真实，比如说，现在在公司工作的产品经理，我想创办一家初创公司，或者刚刚开始构思想法的人，你建议他们在本周或下个月开始做哪些事情，开始寻找一个大想法，或者开始一个想法？
It doesn't have to be a big idea, an idea that'll take them somewhere.
它不一定是一个伟大的想法，一个能带他们去某个地方的想法。
Mike Maples, Jr.: The number one thing I like to say is, get out of the present.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我想说的第一件事是，摆脱现在。
And so, people talk about getting out of the building, and of course, we should, but getting out of the-
所以，人们谈论离开大楼，当然，我们应该离开，但是离开——
Mike Maples, Jr.: And of course we should, but getting out of the present is a little bit more subtle than that, right?
Mike Maples, Jr.：当然我们应该这样做，但是摆脱现在比这更微妙，对吧？
So William Gibson was right when he said, "The future is already here.
因此，威廉·吉布森说得对：“未来已经到来。
It's just not evenly distributed." So most great startup ideas come from a future that exists right now today.
只是分布不均匀而已。”因此，大多数伟大的创业想法都来自于当下存在的未来。
And so what I like to say to people, and this is a question that I always ask when I'm pitched, "Is this from the future?" And then some people will say to me like, "Hey, I have a mental health startup.
所以我喜欢对人们说，这是我在推销时总是问的一个问题，“这是来自未来的吗？”然后有些人会对我说，“嘿，我有一家心理健康初创公司。
Mental health is a huge problem.
心理健康是一个大问题。
It needs to be solved." And I'll say, "Why is your idea from the future?" "Well in the future I believe mental health needs to be solved." I'm like, "That's not what I'm asking.
它需要解决。”我会说，“为什么你的想法来自未来？” “我相信未来需要解决心理健康问题。”我想，“这不是我要问的。
I'm asking what part of the future have you been living in that gives you the right to have an opinion about the future?"
我问的是，你生活在未来的哪一部分，让你有权对未来发表意见？”
Mike Maples, Jr.: So I like to say, "If you're not living in the future, your opinion about it isn't valid." It's like saying, "I think a customer will do X." And you've never talked to a customer.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：所以我想说，“如果你不是生活在未来，那么你对未来的看法就是无效的。”这就像说：“我认为客户会做某件事。”而且您从未与客户交谈过。
I'm like, "Okay, your opinion's interesting but irrelevant." And so the only relevant opinions about the future come from people who are living in it and coming from people who understand what's new about it in a very visceral way.
我说：“好吧，你的观点很有趣，但无关紧要。”因此，关于未来的唯一相关观点来自生活在其中的人们，来自那些以非常发自内心的方式了解未来新事物的人们。
And there are people who do a good job of this, like Maddie Hall who started Living Carbon.
有些人在这方面做得很好，比如创办 Living Carbon 的麦迪·霍尔 (Maddie Hall)。
She was working at Zenefit and at first she tried to think of a startup and she had ideas that weren't that good.
她在 Zenefit 工作，起初她试图考虑创办一家公司，但她的想法并不好。
She had a laser tag idea and a few other things.
她有激光标签的想法和其他一些想法。
But then she decided to go follow Sam Altman for a year to be his chief of staff.
但后来她决定跟随萨姆·奥尔特曼一年，担任他的幕僚长。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And Sam Altman visits the future multiple times a day with people.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：山姆·奥尔特曼每天都会与人们多次访问未来。
And so that's what led her to this idea that for Living Carbon, which does genetically modified trees.
这就是她产生这个想法的原因：Living Carbon 致力于对树木进行基因改造。
I mean, it couldn't be farther away from Zenefit, right?
我的意思是，它离Zenefit不可能更远了，对吧？
But she saw Microsoft was about to spend a lot of money, a bunch of other companies about to spend a lot of money on carbon takeout.
但她看到微软即将花费大量资金，其他一些公司也将在碳排放方面花费大量资金。
She saw that the genetic engineering technology was getting good enough that you could engineer these trees.
她看到基因工程技术已经足够好了，你可以改造这些树木。
She married the inflections with the need and then off she went.
她将语调变化与需要结合起来，然后就走了。
But she was basically sampling a lot of different futures until she found one that she liked.
但她基本上是在尝试很多不同的未来，直到找到她喜欢的一个。
Lenny Rachitsky: I love that example because it makes it very real what living in the future looks like.
Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这个例子，因为它让未来的生活变得非常真实。
So one is spend time with people that are very far along on some edge of technology or the way people behave.
因此，我们应该花时间与那些在技术或人们行为方式方面走得很远的人在一起。
Another you shared is a work with a company, say that you work with a silicon graphics industrial related magic...
您分享的另一个是与一家公司的合作，比如说您与一家硅图形工业相关的魔术合作...
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的。
So McCracken had a term for it that I've always liked lighthouse customers.
所以麦克拉肯有一个术语，那就是我一直喜欢灯塔顾客。
And so the lighthouse has this light that shines out and obscures the fog.
因此，灯塔发出的光可以照亮并遮蔽雾气。
And not all customers are equal and some customers are living in the future and those customers are gold.
并非所有客户都是平等的，有些客户生活在未来，而这些客户是黄金。
And those customers will, if you solve their needs, take you to the promise land.
如果您解决了这些客户的需求，他们就会带您前往应许之地。
So yeah, you can build what's missing for yourself like Andreessen did or Zuckerberg or Steve Wozniak or Bill Gates, or you can build something for lighthouse customers you have a good relationship with.
所以，是的，你可以像安德森、扎克伯格、史蒂夫沃兹尼亚克或比尔盖茨那样为自己打造缺失的东西，或者你也可以为与你有良好关系的灯塔客户打造一些东西。
Or if you can do neither of those things, the number one question I get asked is, "Hey, that's great if you live in a supercomputer lab or if you were selling to Industrial Light or Magic or all the Salesforce customer.
或者，如果你这两件事都做不到，我被问到的第一个问题是，“嘿，如果你住在超级计算机实验室，或者如果你向 Industrial Light 或 Magic 或所有 Salesforce 客户销售产品，那就太好了。
I'm not one of those.
我不是其中之一。
I'm a second year student at Stanford Business School.
我是斯坦福商学院的二年级学生。
I'm a product manager at company X, I'm whatever the case may be.
我是X公司的产品经理，无论如何我都是这样的。
That's where the Maddie Hall example is really powerful.
这就是麦迪·霍尔的例子真正有力的地方。
Because Maddie proactively got out of the present in a very intentional way.
因为麦迪以非常有意的方式主动摆脱了现在。
So I love her example as a case study.
所以我喜欢她作为案例研究的例子。
Lenny Rachitsky: What signs tell you that a company is one of these lighthouse companies living in the future or a person is just like, you just feel it, they're so far ahead of everyone else.
Lenny Rachitsky：什么迹象告诉你一家公司是生活在未来的灯塔公司之一，或者一个人就像，你只是感觉到，他们远远领先于其他人。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Usually it has to do with how tech forward they are.
Mike Maples, Jr.：通常这与他们的技术领先程度有关。
There was a time when a lot of people didn't think the cloud was going to be a thing because it was insecure.
曾经有一段时间，很多人认为云不会成为现实，因为它不安全。
And I'm not going to host my important data and let somebody else have it.
我不会托管我的重要数据并让其他人拥有它。
But there were a set of customers who really excited about the cloud and they tended to adopt certain kinds of products.
但有一群客户对云真正感兴趣，他们倾向于采用某些类型的产品。
When I used to work in client server startups, you knew that the early adopters were people who were using relational database servers and scalable front end programming interfaces and things like that, were trying to have distributed apps that they would roll out.
当我曾经在客户端服务器初创公司工作时，您知道早期采用者是使用关系数据库服务器和可扩展前端编程接口之类的人，试图拥有他们将推出的分布式应用程序。
You could tell who was trying to play offense with the new trends.
你可以看出谁在试图迎合新趋势。
Lenny Rachitsky: Awesome.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
Okay, before we move on into actions, is there anything else you think might be useful to share in terms of helping people come up with an idea, find a great idea?
好的，在我们采取行动之前，您认为还有什么可以分享的，可以帮助人们提出一个想法，找到一个好主意吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: The number one thing about the ideas goes back to the not playing the comparison game.
Mike Maples, Jr.：这些想法中最重要的一点可以追溯到不玩比较游戏。
So the thing that I see people underestimate when they come up with ideas is the threshold of desperation required in the customer.
因此，我发现人们在提出想法时低估了客户所需的绝望阈值。
So we want to solve problems for desperate people and it's like if we have powerful inflections that really empower and we have something unique, there should be somebody who is irresistibly drawn to that empowerment.
所以我们想为绝望的人解决问题，就像如果我们有真正赋予权力的强大的变化，并且我们有一些独特的东西，那么应该有人不可抗拒地被这种赋予权力所吸引。
They should say, "Oh my God, this is incredible.
他们应该说：“天啊，这太不可思议了。
This is a game changer.
这是一个游戏规则的改变者。
I can't unsee that." Why is that important?
我无法忽视这一点。”为什么这很重要？
I like to say that if a customer has the ability to do something other than what you do to solve their problem, they won't be crazy enough to do business with a startup.
我想说的是，如果客户有能力做一些不同于你所做的事情来解决他们的问题，他们就不会疯狂到与初创公司做生意。
So customer has to be so desperate that when they see what you have, they're like, "I've got to have it."
因此，顾客必须如此绝望，以至于当他们看到你拥有的东西时，他们会说：“我必须拥有它。”
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so I like to say, "You want to force a choice and not a comparison." If everybody's selling apples, I can't be a 10 times better Apple.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以我想说，“你想要强制做出选择，而不是进行比较。”如果每个人都卖苹果，我就不可能成为比苹果好十倍的人。
I want to be the world's first banana.
我想成为世界上第一根香蕉。
And I want to say to people, " You may not want bananas, you may not like them, you may not value the advantage of bananas, but if you value banana-ness, I'm the only person that's got it." It's like, "Come to papa." And so that's like an insight feels like that.
我想对人们说，“你可能不想要香蕉，你可能不喜欢它们，你可能不重视香蕉的优势，但如果你重视香蕉的特性，我是唯一拥有它的人。”就像“到爸爸那里来”。这就像一种洞察力的感觉。
And in the early days, don't spend any of your time with people who love apples because you're not going to convince them and they're going to waste your time.
在早期，不要花任何时间和喜欢苹果的人在一起，因为你无法说服他们，他们会浪费你的时间。
What you want to do is find everybody in the world that values the advantages of bananas as soon as possible, not wasting any time on the people who don't.
你要做的就是尽快找到世界上每个重视香蕉优点的人，而不是在那些不重视香蕉的人身上浪费时间。
And so I'd say that that kind of wraps up the idea of insights is it like we want to force a choice and not a comparison.
所以我想说，这概括了洞察力的想法，就像我们想要强制选择而不是比较一样。
Nobody looks at the Tesla cyber truck and says, oh yeah, well how does that compare to Ford F-150?
没有人看到特斯拉网络卡车后会说，哦，是的，这与福特 F-150 相比如何？
And you may hate the cyber truck, you may think it's stupid, but nobody's neutral about the cyber truck.
你可能讨厌网络卡车，你可能认为它很愚蠢，但没有人对网络卡车持中立态度。
You want to have a product that people can't be neutral about, but that the people who magnetize positively to it just can't imagine a world without.
你想要拥有一种人们无法保持中立的产品，但那些积极地吸引它的人却无法想象没有它的世界。
Lenny Rachitsky: I love that.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢这个。
And going back to your banana example, you want just a few people to be just like, "I need that banana." No matter how much you're charging.
回到你的香蕉例子，你希望只有少数人会说，“我需要那个香蕉。”不管你充电多少。
Mike Maples, Jr.: That's right.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：没错。
And even if it's halfway ripe, because that's the other thing, they need to be willing to tolerate the fact that you can't execute very well because how could a startup execute really well?
即使它已经成熟了一半，因为那是另一回事，他们也需要愿意容忍你不能很好地执行这一事实，因为初创公司怎么可能执行得很好呢？
They have no resources.
他们没有资源。
And so the only chance for a startup to win is to win on a playing field where better doesn't matter where execution isn't as important as, "Got to have that thing.
因此，初创公司获胜的唯一机会是在一个竞争环境中获胜，在这个竞争环境中，更好并不重要，执行力并不像“必须拥有那个东西”那么重要。
I'll take any version of it you give me because I am desperate for it."
我会接受你给我的任何版本，因为我非常渴望它。”
Lenny Rachitsky: Speaking of execution, good segue to the second part of the chat, which is basically you looked into what do the most successful companies and founders do differently?
Lenny Rachitsky：说到执行，请继续讨论第二部分，基本上是您研究了最成功的公司和创始人的不同做法？
And you also found three core things that they all do and many of them do.
您还发现了他们都做的三件核心事情，而且其中很多都做。
Movements, storytelling, disagreeableness.
动作、讲故事、不愉快。
Let's talk about each one, pick whichever one you want to start with.
让我们逐一讨论，选择您想从哪一个开始。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah, so we've talked about thinking different, but it's like the problem though is that asking people to abandon the familiar for an uncertain tomorrow is a provocative act.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的，我们讨论过不同的思考方式，但问题是，要求人们为了不确定的明天而放弃熟悉的事物是一种挑衅行为。
All startups are fundamentally disagreeable.
所有初创公司从根本上来说都是令人不快的。
There are disagreement with how things are done, there are disagreement with the pattern of what is.
对于如何做事存在分歧，对于事情的模式也存在分歧。
And so we need as founders to persuade others to change their habits with our pattern breaking actions.
因此，作为创始人，我们需要通过打破常规的行动来说服其他人改变他们的习惯。
And so what the pattern breaking founder does is they create a stark dichotomy between the world that is and the world that could be.
因此，打破模式的创始人所做的就是在现实世界和未来世界之间创造出一种鲜明的二分法。
And they create an irresistible desire on the part of early believers to move to that different future with them.
它们让早期信徒产生了不可抗拒的渴望，想要与他们一起走向不同的未来。
And so I like to say there are three aspects to acting different, right?
所以我想说表现不同有三个方面，对吗？
One is the other storytelling and the other is disagreeableness.
一是另一种讲故事，二是令人不愉快。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And so the movement piece is the front and centerpiece because most people when they think of movements, they think of it as more like social movements like Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King, or they think of there's artistic movements like Cubism and Picasso.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：所以运动作品是最前面和最核心的部分，因为大多数人在想到运动时，他们认为它更像是民权运动和马丁·路德·金这样的社会运动，或者他们认为有像立体主义和毕加索这样的艺术运动。
But fundamentally, a movement is a different way of developing a market than how most marketing people think about developing the market.
但从根本上来说，运动是开发市场的一种不同方式，与大多数营销人员对开发市场的看法不同。
Most people when they think about marketing, they think, "Okay, I've got a set of targets, I've got a set of programs.
大多数人在考虑营销时会想：“好吧，我有一套目标，我有一套计划。
I've got inbound and outbound.
我有入境和出境。
I've got these things I need to do." What a movement does is it leverages a grievance of a minority against the tyranny of a majority.
我有这些事情需要做。”一场运动的作用是利用少数人的不满来对抗多数人的暴政。
And it takes that and animates it in a way that those early believers are emotionally committed to moving.
它以一种让那些早期的信徒在情感上致力于移动的方式来激发它。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So early customers are not animated by pragmatism, they're animated by belief.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以早期的客户不是被实用主义所激励，而是被信念所激励。
Early customers, early employees, early investors don't decide to go into business with you because of the practical reasons that you unlock.
早期客户、早期员工、早期投资者不会因为你解锁的实际原因而决定与你开展业务。
They do it for aesthetic reasons.
他们这样做是出于审美原因。
They do it because they believe what you believe.
他们这样做是因为他们相信你所相信的。
And so a movement is basically a set of people with the same belief moving together to a different future.
因此，运动基本上是一群具有相同信念的人一起走向不同的未来。
And when you think about it's equally the same, right, for the civil rights movement.
当你想一想，这对于民权运动来说同样是一样的，对吧。
And a movement is a way to crystallize the choice.
运动是使选择具体化的一种方式。
If you believe in civil rights, you can't be half in on that.
如果你相信公民权利，你就不能参与其中。
You either believe that it should be about the content of people's character, not their skin color.
你要么认为这应该是关于人们性格的内容，而不是他们的肤色。
You can't be sort of not racist.
你不可能不种族主义。
You either believe or you don't believe.
你要么相信，要么不相信。
Mike Maples, Jr.: The people who followed Martin Luther King bought into the aesthetically better future that his movement promised.
小迈克·梅普尔斯（Mike Maples, Jr.）：追随马丁·路德·金的人们接受了他的运动所承诺的美学上更美好的未来。
And it turns out, and I don't mean to equate, that was a pretty important movement, right?
事实证明，我并不是想等同，这是一个非常重要的运动，对吧？
It's like some movements are more frivolous.
好像有些动作比较轻浮。
I say an artistic movement.
我说的是艺术运动。
But the notion is similar in that there's a set of early believers who believe they've been enlightened about something that the rest of the world doesn't get yet.
但这个概念的相似之处在于，有一群早期的信徒相信他们已经得到了世界其他人尚未得到的启发。
And they think that the startup founder is sort of like the prime mover of that movement.
他们认为初创公司的创始人有点像这场运动的主要推动者。
And then what happens is that startup markets happen because the movements accumulate and accelerate and more and more people join them.
然后会发生的是，创业市场的出现是因为这些运动不断积累和加速，越来越多的人加入其中。
And what was once heresy becomes the accepted conventional wisdom and now the company's no longer a startup, it's a company, and now all of a sudden it is a valid market and all of a sudden they're the status quo and they got to watch out for the next set of disruptor.
曾经的异端邪说变成了公认的传统智慧，现在公司不再是一家初创公司，而是一家公司，现在突然之间它成为了一个有效的市场，突然之间他们就维持现状了，他们必须提防下一批颠覆者。
So the movement is the first key thing I think in all of this.
因此，运动是我认为在这一切中第一个关键的事情。
Lenny Rachitsky: Is there an example?
Lenny Rachitsky：有例子吗？
Lyft obviously comes to mind with the pink mustaches just as the future.
很明显，当人们想到 Lyft 时，粉红色的小胡子就代表了未来。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Ride-sharing was a movement.
Mike Maples, Jr.：拼车是一项运动。
In my early days starting Floodgate with Anne, we thought that seed investing was a movement.
在我和 Anne 一起创办 Floodgate 的早期，我们认为种子投资是一种运动。
And so we thought that there was going to be a day where seed funds would be a permanent feature of the venture landscape, but people didn't believe that in the late 2000s.
因此，我们认为有一天种子基金将成为风险投资领域的永久特征，但在 2000 年代末人们并不相信这一点。
And so we're like not enough that we just succeed and invest in good companies.
因此，我们认为仅仅取得成功并投资于优秀公司还不够。
We need to get the best LPs in the world to buy into this.
我们需要让世界上最好的有限合伙人来购买这个产品。
We need to get Phil Horsley and Horsley Bridge and Dave Swenson at Yale and people who are respected in the ecosystem to say, "Yeah, I buy into that." And so it was really important to us to get the right early believers in our movement.
我们需要让耶鲁大学的 Phil Horsley、Horsley Bridge 和 Dave Swenson 以及在生态系统中受到尊重的人说：“是的，我相信这一点。”因此，在我们的运动中找到正确的早期信徒对我们来说非常重要。
Judith Elsea at Weathergage, who had just started a new firm.
Weathergage 的 Judith Elsea 刚刚创办了一家新公司。
Mike Maples, Jr.: One of my favorite examples is actually an old one, Clarence Bird's eye.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我最喜欢的例子之一实际上是一个古老的例子，克拉伦斯·伯德的眼睛。
So you go into the supermarket and there's frozen food aisle.
所以你走进超市，就会看到冷冻食品货架。
Well, Clarence Bird's eye discovered how to flash freeze food when he was up in the Arctic looking at Eskimos, and they were flash freezing their fish and he wondered, could you do it for other things?
好吧，克拉伦斯·伯德（Clarence Bird）在北极观察爱斯基摩人时发现了如何快速冷冻食物，他们正在快速冷冻他们的鱼，他想知道，你能用它来做其他事情吗？
And he found out you could fruit and vegetables, but it wasn't enough to just flash freeze the fish or the fruits or the vegetables.
他发现你可以吃水果和蔬菜，但仅仅快速冷冻鱼、水果或蔬菜是不够的。
You had to convince the trains to have a refrigerated car.
你必须说服火车配备冷藏车。
You had to convince the supermarket to have a refrigerated aisle.
你必须说服超市设立冷藏通道。
And so he had to start a movement where a whole lot of people simultaneously believed in this idea of being able to eat food in a more convenient way, not always in season, not always grown locally from where you were.
因此，他必须发起一场运动，让很多人同时相信这样的想法：能够以更方便的方式吃食物，并不总是应季的，也不总是从你所在的地方种植的。
And so all movements have that characteristic where you kind of start with a higher purpose and then you move people to that different future.
因此，所有运动都具有这样的特征：你从更高的目标开始，然后你将人们带向不同的未来。
Lenny Rachitsky: I'm trying to think about what are current movements that are happening.
Lenny Rachitsky：我正在尝试思考当前正在发生的变化。
One that might be a movement is with LLMs just this bet that transformers are the future of how this is going to work, that just more compute is the answer versus trying to find something else.
法学硕士可能会发起一场运动，他们押注变压器是未来的发展方向，更多的计算就是答案，而不是试图寻找其他东西。
Does that sound right?
听起来对吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Another one that I really like is Tesla.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我真正喜欢的另一辆车是特斯拉。
So Tesla's mission says, "Accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy." They don't even say they're a car company.
因此，特斯拉的使命是：“加速世界向可持续能源的转型。”他们甚至不说自己是一家汽车公司。
So Tesla doesn't say, "Here's why we're better than Ford and Toyota." And this is really important, right?
因此，特斯拉不会说：“这就是我们比福特和丰田更好的原因。”这真的很重要，对吧？
Because the great movements do appeal to a higher purpose.
因为伟大的运动确实诉诸更高的目标。
They don't say, "I'm better than company X.
他们不会说：“我比 X 公司更好。
I'm Avis, I try harder than her." They appeal to a more aesthetically higher purpose future.
我是Avis，我比她更努力。”他们诉诸于更美观、更高目标的未来。
And then they show that this startup is the vehicle for that movement to be actualized, which is kind of a good segue to storytelling.
然后他们表明，这家初创公司是实现这一运动的工具，这是讲故事的一个很好的延续。
Lenny Rachitsky: One other quick example I'm thinking about linear is kind of pushing this movement of craft and design and experience matters in B2B software.
Lenny Rachitsky：我正在思考线性的另一个简单例子是推动 B2B 软件中工艺、设计和体验的发展。
And you shouldn't settle for something that you don't love.
而且你不应该满足于你不喜欢的东西。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Very much so.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：非常如此。
And you know what, Chesky, I don't think he even knew he was fully doing this at the time, but Chesky did this brilliantly with Airbnb.
你知道吗，切斯基，我认为他当时甚至不知道自己正在完全这样做，但切斯基在 Airbnb 上做得非常出色。
So he created a movement around living like a local.
因此，他发起了一场围绕“像当地人一样生活”的运动。
And so the other thing that a movement does is it turns the greatest strength of the status quo into its biggest weakness.
因此，一场运动所做的另一件事就是将现状的最大优势转化为最大的弱点。
And so Brian never said, "Hotels suck.
所以布莱恩从来没有说过：“酒店很糟糕。
Death to the Four Season." He just said, "Hey, look, when you go to Paris, you have a choice.
第四季之死。”他只是说，“嘿，听着，当你去巴黎时，你有一个选择。
You can hang out in the Four Seasons and it's going to be just like the Four Seasons everywhere else in the world.
您可以在四季中闲逛，就像世界其他地方的四季一样。
It'll be in the middle of the town, or you can live in Paris like a Parisian." And he's like, "I don't have to say that the Four Seasons is bad for you to decide to choose me.
它将位于市中心，或者你也可以像巴黎人一样住在巴黎。”他说：“我不必说《四个季节》对你决定选择我来说是不好的。
And oh, by the way, if you want to stay in the same kind of hotel everywhere you go, I'm not for you."
哦，顺便说一句，如果你想无论走到哪里都住同一种酒店，我不适合你。”
Mike Maples, Jr.: But so now let's say you're four seasons, your whole business is predicated on doing a good job of having a common experience that people could accept and that they're used to and that they expect.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：但是现在假设你有四个赛季，你的整个业务的基础是做好人们可以接受、习惯和期望的共同体验。
And so now you've taken all of the stuff that you invested decades in and turned it into something you have to apologize for all of a sudden.
所以现在你突然把你投入了几十年的东西变成了你必须道歉的东西。
And so the great startups, they create movements not so much by criticizing the incumbent, but by showing the weakness in the strength of the incumbent.
因此，伟大的初创公司并不是通过批评现任者来发起运动，而是通过展示现任者的弱点来发起运动。
And then just saying to the customer, "Hey, look, you decide it's not up to me to decide what's bad about Four Seasons.
然后对顾客说：“嘿，听着，你认为这不是由我来决定《四季》有什么不好的地方。
It's up to you to decide whether you value my difference or not."
你是否重视我的与众不同，由你来决定。”
Lenny Rachitsky: It reminds me of counter positioning from Hamilton Helmer's Seven Powers book.
Lenny Rachitsky：这让我想起了汉密尔顿·赫尔默（Hamilton Helmer）的《七种力量》书中的反定位。
Lenny Rachitsky: So to make it even more practical for people that are like, "Oh, I need to come up with a movement for my startup.
Lenny Rachitsky：因此，为了使其对于那些“哦，我需要为我的初创公司提出一项行动”的人来说更加实用。
That's why things aren't working." It sounds like it's kind of here's how we want the future to look and why we're doing this.
这就是为什么事情不起作用。”听起来这就是我们希望未来的样子以及我们这样做的原因。
And then it's a combination of marketing, positioning, messaging, repeating it, social media, imagine is that roughly how to think about?
然后是营销、定位、消息传递、重复、社交媒体的组合，想象一下大致是如何思考的？
Mike Maples, Jr.: But I would also say that it's about storytelling.
Mike Maples, Jr.：但我也想说，这与讲故事有关。
And so storytelling, there is a science to storytelling.
所以讲故事，讲故事是有科学的。
And so for example, the hero's journey, you have somebody in the world that is the hero, let's say Luke Skywalker on Tatooine, dusty planet, he's bored out of his mind.
举个例子，英雄的旅程，世界上有一个人是英雄，假设卢克·天行者在塔图因这个尘土飞扬的星球上，他无聊得发疯。
And then a mentor shows up and offers them a call to adventure, Obi-Wan Kenobi.
然后一位导师出现了，并呼吁他们去冒险，他就是欧比旺·克诺比。
And at first they resist the call, but then something bad happens in this case, Luke's like, "Hey, I can't come with you.
起初他们拒绝了这个电话，但随后在这种情况下发生了一些不好的事情，卢克就像，“嘿，我不能和你一起去。
I got chores to do for Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen." But then he comes back to his place and it's all burned down the storm troopers killed his aunt and uncle.
我要为贝鲁阿姨和欧文叔叔做家务。”但当他回到自己的住处时，一切都被烧毁了，冲锋队杀死了他的姑妈和叔叔。
So then he accepts the call.
然后他接听电话。
The mentor has a tool and a magic.
导师有工具和魔法。
In this case, it was the lightsaber was the tool and the magic was the force.
在这种情况下，光剑就是工具，魔法就是力量。
Mike Maples, Jr.: And they need those things because the hero has to have a reason to credibly believe that they can beat the bad guy.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：他们需要这些东西，因为英雄必须有理由相信他们可以击败坏人。
And so then what happens is you find co-conspirators along the way, Han Solo, Chewy, ultimately the princess.
然后发生的事情是，你一路上会发现同谋，汉·索罗、耐嚼，最后是公主。
You rescue her, you blow up the death star, you beat the empire, and then emerge, transform.
你救了她，你炸毁了死星，你打败了帝国，然后出现，转变。
They even get medals at the end of the movie, right?
他们甚至在电影结束时获得奖牌，对吧？
Now, it turns out that the exact same thing applies for startups.
现在，事实证明同样的事情也适用于初创公司。
So if we take the Lyft example, let's just say I'm a rider.
因此，如果我们以 Lyft 为例，就假设我是一名乘客。
In the past, the world that is taxi suck in .
过去，出租车的世界是吸进去的。
I can't even get one.
我连一个都买不到
And when I get one, it's gross and it smells bad and it's late, and they won't take my credit cards.
当我拿到一张时，它很恶心，气味难闻，而且已经很晚了，他们不会拿走我的信用卡。
I have to have cash.
我必须有现金。
They can't rely on them to get me there.
他们不能指望他们能把我带到那里。
I guess my alternatives to park, you can't ever get parking people break into your car.
我想我的停车替代方案是，你永远不可能让停车人员闯入你的车。
That's the world that is.
这就是世界。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Logan and John would engage in a call to adventure, "Try this ride-sharing app.
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：洛根和约翰会呼吁冒险，“试试这个拼车应用程序。
It shows cars on map, you know where they're all the time, they come within five minutes, fist bumped the driver." Now, this was where the genius of the pink mustache came in.
它在地图上显示汽车，你一直知道它们在哪里，它们在五分钟内就来了，用拳头撞了司机。”现在，这就是粉红色小胡子的天才之处。
So the pink mustache honored the fact that a lot of times people resist the call.
因此，粉红色的小胡子尊重了人们很多时候抵制这一呼吁的事实。
It's scary to get into stranger's car.
坐陌生人的车是很可怕的。
So the pink mustache made it seem a little bit less scary.
所以粉红色的小胡子让它看起来不那么可怕了。
When you see these cars driving around in San Francisco, you're like, "Hmm, what's up with that pink mustache?" And you're talking to your friend and they say, "Oh, it's this new thing called Lyft.
当你看到这些汽车在旧金山行驶时，你会想，“嗯，那粉红色的小胡子是怎么回事？”当你和你的朋友聊天时，他们会说：“哦，这是一个叫做 Lyft 的新事物。
It's pretty cool.
非常酷。
It's an app if you've seen it." And so Logan and John did, among the best I've ever seen at honoring the fact that people might resist the call.
如果你见过的话，它就是一个应用程序。”洛根和约翰就这么做了，这是我见过的最好的尊重人们可能会抵制这一呼吁这一事实的做法。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But then part of the story is languaging.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：但是故事的一部分是语言。
This was the genius of Twitter.
这就是 Twitter 的天才之处。
They didn't call it Microblogs, Inc., right?
他们没有称之为 Microblogs, Inc.，对吧？
They created a metaphor around tweeting birds.
他们创造了一个关于鸣叫的鸟的比喻。
The Tesla was this way, right?
特斯拉就是这样的吧？
It wouldn't have survived a comparison with a Porsche of 9/11.
与 9/11 事件中的保时捷相比，它根本无法生存。
The seats weren't as good, the radio wasn't as good, but Elon was telling a story about a different future.
座位没那么好，收音机也没那么好，但埃隆正在讲述一个关于不同未来的故事。
And when you bought the Tesla Roadster, you weren't buying it for practical reasons.
当您购买 Tesla Roadster 时，您并不是出于实际原因而购买它。
You were buying it for aesthetic reasons.
您购买它是出于美观原因。
You were buying it because you thought that that future was something you wanted to be part of.
你购买它是因为你认为你想成为那个未来的一部分。
So the storytelling primitive ends up working spectacularly well for startups, right?
所以讲故事的原语最终对初创公司来说效果非常好，对吧？
We need to describe the world that is, we need to describe the world that could be, which is that different future.
我们需要描述这个世界，也就是说，我们需要描述可能的世界，即不同的未来。
We need to understand, and this is important that your job as the founder is to be Obi-Wan, not Luke.
我们需要明白，这一点很重要，因为你作为创始人的工作是欧比旺，而不是卢克。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So the founders sometimes make the mistake of thinking that they're the hero, but they're not.
Mike Maples, Jr.：所以创始人有时会错误地认为他们是英雄，但事实并非如此。
The early believers are the heroes, and it's the job of the founder to tell a story that emotes early believers to want to move with them and co-create the future with them.
早期的信徒是英雄，创始人的工作就是讲述一个故事，让早期的信徒想要与他们一起前进，与他们共同创造未来。
And the story you tell an employee is different from the story you tell an investor is different from the story you tell a customer because all of them have a different idea of what their hero's journey.
你告诉员工的故事不同于你告诉投资者的故事，也不同于你告诉客户的故事，因为他们对英雄的旅程都有不同的看法。
If you're an investor, maybe your idea of being a hero is to make a hundred times your money and be on some fancy list and make money for your LPs.
如果你是一名投资者，也许你对成为英雄的想法是赚到你的钱的一百倍，并出现在一些花哨的名单上，并为你的有限合伙人赚钱。
If you're an early customer, maybe you're a hero by solving an important business problem and getting recognized for it in your company.
如果您是早期客户，也许您通过解决重要的业务问题并在公司中获得认可而成为英雄。
If you're an early employee, maybe it's you want to work on something you're excited about with really awesome people that don't waste your time with politics and bureaucracy, all of those are different journeys.
如果你是一名早期员工，也许你想和真正优秀的人一起做一些你感兴趣的事情，而不是在政治和官僚主义上浪费你的时间，所有这些都是不同的旅程。
All of those are different transformational ways to self-actualize.
所有这些都是自我实现的不同变革方式。
And we have to meet those people where they are and give them a reason to want to come with us to the world to be.
我们必须在这些人所在的地方与他们会面，并给他们一个想要与我们一起走向未来世界的理由。
Lenny Rachitsky: I had Nancy Duarte on the podcast.
Lenny Rachitsky：我的播客中有 Nancy Duarte。
She is one of the most famous presentation designers, and she had exactly the same advice.
她是最著名的演示设计师之一，她也有完全相同的建议。
When you're trying to tell a story, you basically bounce back between the world that is, the world that could be.
当你试图讲一个故事时，你基本上会在这个世界（即可能的世界）之间反弹。
What is, what could be.
是什么，可能是什么。
What is, what could be, and just keep going back and forth.
是什么，可能是什么，然后不断地来回走动。
Mike Maples, Jr.: A hundred percent.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：百分之一百。
In fact, Nancy is the person who helped me understand this better than any single person.
事实上，南希比任何人都更能帮助我理解这一点。
So Nancy would show me how Steve Jobs's iPhone launch speech.
所以南希会向我展示史蒂夫·乔布斯的 iPhone 发布会演讲。
She'd be like, "Okay, well now notice what he does.
她会说，“好吧，现在注意他做了什么。
He shows how bad phone suck now.
他展示了现在的手机有多糟糕。
They have styluses, they have keyboards." And then he talks about what could be, you could combine an internet communicator, you could combine an iPod, and he goes back and forth between how bad the current state of things is, how it should be, how bad it is, how it should be.
他们有手写笔，有键盘。”然后他谈到了可能的情况，你可以结合一个互联网通讯器，你可以结合一个 iPod，他在当前的状况有多糟糕、它应该如何、它有多糟糕、它应该如何之间来回讨论。
Introducing the iPhone, how bad it was, how awesome it's going to be, how awesome it is.
介绍 iPhone，它有多糟糕，它将会有多棒，它有多棒。
When you look at his speech, he's masterful at toggling.
当你看他的演讲时，你会发现他非常擅长切换。
And by the way, the same is true.
顺便说一句，情况也是如此。
Abe Lincoln with the Gettysburg Address, "Four score and seven years ago, new nation, now we're in a civil war.
亚伯·林肯在葛底斯堡演说中写道：“四年七年前，新国家，现在我们正处于内战之中。
We need to preserve what we stand for as a country.
我们需要维护我们作为一个国家所代表的东西。
We need to go win this war." But he kind of goes back and forth drawing a tension between what has happened in the world that was, and the world that could be.
我们需要赢得这场战争。”但他在过去的世界和未来的世界之间来回描绘了一种紧张关系。
Lenny Rachitsky: Something that I was thinking as you were talking was, I've seen too many founders spend so much time crafting this amazing story and vision of their product, and they have this really cool blog post and big idea, but nobody really cares about their product yet.
Lenny Rachitsky：当你说话时，我在想的是，我看到太多的创始人花了很多时间来制作这个令人惊叹的故事和他们产品的愿景，他们有这篇非常酷的博客文章和伟大的想法，但还没有人真正关心他们的产品。
Do you have any advice of just make sure you're building something people want above all else.
您有什么建议吗？确保您正在构建人们最想要的东西。
And the story is a layer on top of that.
故事是在此之上的一层。
Mike Maples, Jr.: So many startups I see the first slide is like, "We're Acme AI software.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我看到很多初创公司的第一张幻灯片都是这样的，“我们是 Acme AI 软件。
We're located in San Francisco, we're funded by X and Y VCs." That's not storytelling because you're talking about yourself, right?
我们位于旧金山，由 X 和 Y 风险投资公司资助。”这不是讲故事，因为你在谈论你自己，对吧？
And if you're trying to make the person in the audience the hero, they don't care about you yet.
如果你想让观众成为英雄，他们还不关心你。
They care about how you're going to make them a hero.
他们关心你如何让他们成为英雄。
And so when you kind of say, 'Okay, if I'm pitching VCs, what I really need to do is help them understand why they'll be a hero if they invest in my company according to what makes them feel heroic." What you present is different, but what a lot of startup presentations do is they take their sales pitch and they rehost it for every other audience.
因此，当你说，‘好吧，如果我在向风险投资人推销，我真正需要做的是帮助他们理解，如果他们根据让他们感到英雄的东西来投资我的公司，他们会成为英雄。”你所展示的内容是不同的，但很多初创公司的演示所做的是他们采取他们的销售宣传，并为其他观众重新举办。
They rehost it for the press, for investors and for employees and all that.
他们为媒体、投资者和员工等重新举办了这次活动。
And that's wrong because what you're doing is you're talking about yourself to different people, but what you want to do is describe the world that could be, the stakes that are involved, and then each of those individual audiences, you want to meet them where they live in the world that is, and show them how they can engage in a transformational journey to the world it could be.
这是错误的，因为你正在做的是向不同的人谈论你自己，但你想做的是描述可能的世界，所涉及的利害关系，然后每个单独的观众，你想在他们生活的地方见到他们，并向他们展示他们如何参与到可能的世界的变革之旅。
Lenny Rachitsky: And also share your amazing stats and backgrounds and market size and all that stuff.
Lenny Rachitsky：还要分享您令人惊叹的统计数据、背景、市场规模等等。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的。
Although it's funny, I've found that investors are the same.
虽然很有趣，但我发现投资者都是一样的。
Investors, ultimately they believe or they don't believe.
投资者最终要么相信，要么不相信。
A lot of times, this is the other thing I see happen, is the poor founder will get advice from 20 different people about their pitch deck.
很多时候，这是我看到的另一件事，可怜的创始人会从 20 个不同的人那里得到关于他们的融资方案的建议。
And a lot of the people giving them advice are not believers in that different future.
许多给他们建议的人并不相信那种不同的未来。
They're giving generic startup advice or they'll go pitch a bunch of firms and they didn't consider who's prepared to possibly believe, who isn't.
他们给出的是通用的创业建议，或者他们会去推销一堆公司，但他们没有考虑谁准备好相信，谁不准备相信。
And so then they get objections to their pitch from people who aren't going to believe anyway, and then they try to have a slide to meet that objection.
因此，他们会遭到那些无论如何都不会相信的人的反对，然后他们会尝试用幻灯片来满足这种反对意见。
And before you know it, you have what I call a Franken deck.
在你意识到之前，你就拥有了我所说的弗兰肯套牌。
And so you have this huge, gigantic presentation trying to anticipate every objection, and the person who was ready to believe you in the first place doesn't know what you were trying to say because you obscured it with all this other stuff.
所以你有一个巨大的、巨大的演示试图预测每一个反对意见，而一开始准备相信你的人并不知道你想说什么，因为你用所有其他东西掩盖了它。
And so I find that just like with an insight, it's okay if most investors don't like your idea, what you want to find is the ones who are prepared to move with you and make sure they absolutely know why they should.
所以我发现，就像洞察力一样，如果大多数投资者不喜欢你的想法也没关系，你想要找到的是那些准备与你一起行动并确保他们绝对知道为什么他们应该这样做的人。
To me, that's the ideal pitch deck.
对我来说，这是理想的宣传材料。
Lenny Rachitsky: I love this advice.
Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这个建议。
And just to be clear, this is like seed and pre-seed before there's a lot of traction, a lot of data and like that.
需要明确的是，这就像种子和预种子，然后才有很大的吸引力、大量的数据等等。
Lenny Rachitsky: So what's your advice to a founder that's trying to iterate on their deck is it's just like, "Don't show it to too many people." Is it, "Stick to your guns."
Lenny Rachitsky：那么，您对试图迭代其平台的创始人的建议是什么，就像“不要向太多人展示”。是不是“坚持你的枪”。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Okay, here would be my succinct advice.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：好的，这是我的简洁建议。
And other than that, there's about a million details.
除此之外，还有大约一百万个细节。
Slide one, you say what you do as if I literally know nothing.
第一张幻灯片，你说你做了什么，就好像我真的什么都不知道一样。
So it's not, "We're Airbnb, we're a marketplace for unused residential housing space." Bad.
所以这并不是“我们是 Airbnb，我们是一个未使用住宅空间的市场”。坏的。
But you'll get advice that says to do that because VCs think marketplaces are hot, residential real estate's big.
但你会得到这样的建议，因为风险投资家认为市场很热门，住宅房地产规模很大。
What you should instead say is something like, "We're Airbnb, we let you rent an extra room in your house." Because now as the VC, I'm like, ah, I know what you do.
你应该这样说：“我们是 Airbnb，我们让你在家里多租一个房间。”因为现在作为风险投资人，我想，啊，我知道你做什么。
And there are a lot of pitches, I'm 10, 15 minutes in and I'm trying to understand what they do, but I don't know.
有很多推介，我花了 10、15 分钟，我试图了解他们在做什么，但我不知道。
So you just say, "Here's what we do."
所以你只需说：“这就是我们所做的。”
Mike Maples, Jr.: And then the second thing that I say to people is, I think your second slide ought to be, here's the thing we know that's not obvious.
Mike Maples, Jr.：然后我对人们说的第二件事是，我认为你们的第二张幻灯片应该是，这是我们知道的不明显的事情。
So when I was raising fund one for Floodgate, I would go to an LP and say, "We believe that there's a gap between Angels and VCs.
因此，当我为 Floodgate 筹集第一笔资金时，我会去找有限合伙人说：“我们认为天使投资人和风险投资人之间存在差距。
VCs are writing $5 million checks.
风险投资家正在开出 500 万美元的支票。
Angels $250,000 checks.
天使25万美元支票。
We believe that 500,000 is the new 5 million because of Lean Startups.
我们相信，由于精益创业，50 万是新的 500 万。
We believe that there will be a new type of category funds called seed funds.
我们相信将会出现一种新型的类别基金，称为种子基金。
Now, if you don't believe that, nothing else I'm about to say is going to make any sense to you, I can just give you your time back." .
现在，如果你不相信这一点，那么我接下来要说的任何事情对你来说都没有任何意义，我只能把你的时间还给你。” 。
But then once, if they did believe that or they were in a position to lean forward, now when they start mentioning my competitors, I say, "Okay, well, recall Peter Fenton works at Benchmark, he's not going to compete with me because why would Peter Fenton leave Benchmark to start Seed Fund doesn't make sense.
但有一次，如果他们确实相信这一点，或者他们能够向前倾斜，现在当他们开始提到我的竞争对手时，我会说，“好吧，好吧，回想一下彼得·芬顿在 Benchmark 工作，他不会与我竞争，因为彼得·芬顿为什么要离开 Benchmark 去创办种子基金，这是没有意义的。
The only people who are going to try to compete with me from the big funds are the people who aren't performing."
唯一想在大基金中与我竞争的人是那些表现不佳的人。”
Mike Maples, Jr.: But if you set the context of what your insight is, you can always come back to it.
Mike Maples, Jr.：但是如果你设定了你的见解的背景，你就可以随时回到它。
When they bring up competitors, you can always come back to it when they bring up objections and you can say, "Hey, remember I'm just telling you we need to agree on this insight for this to have a chance of being great." So what do we do?
当他们提出竞争对手时，当他们提出反对意见时，你总是可以回到这个话题，你可以说：“嘿，记住我只是告诉你，我们需要就这一见解达成一致，这样才有可能取得成功。”那么我们该怎么办呢？
What's our insight?
我们的见解是什么？
And then slide three is what, if any, proof points do we have?
第三张幻灯片是我们有哪些证据（如果有的话）？
We have any customers?
我们有客户吗？
Do we have great founders?
我们有伟大的创始人吗？
Is there something happened already that should cause you to believe that my insight is vowed?
是否已经发生了一些事情让你相信我的见解是发誓的？
Lenny Rachitsky: I love this.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：我喜欢这个。
I love this tangent we went on...
我喜欢我们继续走的这条切线……
Lenny Rachitsky: Love this.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：喜欢这个。
I love this tangent we went on.
我喜欢我们继续进行的这种切线。
Let me come back to the actions that you found the most successful startups end up taking.
让我回顾一下您发现最成功的初创公司最终采取的行动。
We've talked about movements, we've talked about storytelling.
我们谈论了动作，我们谈论了讲故事。
The third is my favorite, I'm excited to hear you talk about it, which is disagreeableness.
第三个是我最喜欢的，我很高兴听到你谈论它，这是不愉快的。
What is that about?
那是关于什么的？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Earlier, I'd mentioned that you want to escape the comparison trap when you have your insight and when you have your idea, in creating movements and telling stories, you want to break free from the conformity trap.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：早些时候，我提到过，当你有洞察力、有自己的想法时，你想摆脱比较陷阱，在创造动作和讲述故事时，你想摆脱从众陷阱。
We always are under pressure to conform in this world, and people use the pressure of conformity to prevent us from exploring things outside of our limits.
在这个世界上，我们总是面临着顺从的压力，人们利用顺从的压力来阻止我们探索自己极限之外的事物。
There's a book that I love called Jonathan Livingston Seagull, where there's a seagull who wants to fly at infinite speed, and all the other seagulls are like, "Look, we're just destined to eat crap off the surface of the ocean.
我喜欢一本叫做《乔纳森·利文斯顿海鸥》的书，书中有一只海鸥想要以无限的速度飞行，而所有其他海鸥都会说：“看，我们注定要吃海面上的垃圾。
That's just what we are.
我们就是这样。
We're seagulls." He ends up getting banished from the flock because everybody thinks he's crazy.
我们是海鸥。”他最终被赶出了羊群，因为每个人都认为他疯了。
To me, the great founders are kind of like Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
对我来说，伟大的创始人有点像海鸥乔纳森·利文斯顿。
They're willing to pursue something that they're obsessed with, that they think has to happen in this world, and they're willing to sacrifice their status in the socioeconomic sometimes dominance hierarchy because fulfilling the mission is ultimately more important to them than fitting in.
他们愿意追求他们所痴迷的东西，他们认为在这个世界上必须发生的事情，他们愿意牺牲自己在社会经济（有时是统治等级）中的地位，因为完成使命对他们来说最终比融入更重要。
Mike Maples, Jr.: You can't stand out if you always fit in.
Mike Maples, Jr.：如果你总是融入其中，你就无法脱颖而出。
The only people who are different can really make a difference.
只有与众不同的人才能真正发挥作用。
That's kind of the mindset.
这就是一种心态。
I like to say a startup is a fundamentally disagreeable act in the first place, and there's going to be times you need to be disagreeable.
我想说的是，初创公司从根本上来说就是一种令人不快的行为，而且有时你需要表现得令人不快。
I've seen this time and again.
我已经多次看到这种情况了。
I hear people say to me, "I want to work with a founder who's coachable." I'm like, "I'm not really sure." Sometimes I used to joke that when I would meet with Ev Williams, my whole job was to give him advice that he ignored.
我听到人们对我说：“我想与一位可指导的创始人一起工作。”我想，“我不太确定。”有时我常常开玩笑说，当我与埃夫·威廉姆斯见面时，我的全部工作就是给他提供他忽略的建议。
I would say to him, "Hey, Ev.
我会对他说：“嘿，Ev.
I don't think you should raise that much money, because I think you'll spend whatever you raise in 18 months, no matter how much you raise." He said, "Man, so you mean that startups almost always spend their money in 18 months regardless of the amount?" I said, "Yeah.
我认为你不应该筹集那么多钱，因为我认为无论你筹集了多少钱，你都会在 18 个月内花掉你筹集到的所有资金。”他说：“伙计，你的意思是初创公司几乎总是在 18 个月内花掉他们的钱，无论金额是多少？”我说：“是的。
I call it Mike's Law.
我称之为迈克定律。
It almost always happens, because once you have the money, all the pressure is on you to spend it."
这种事几乎总是会发生，因为一旦你有了钱，所有的压力都会落在你身上，让你花掉它。”
Mike Maples, Jr.: He is like, "Man, that is a really good advice.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：他说，“伙计，这真是一个很好的建议。
I'd never thought of it that way before.
我以前从来没有这样想过。
That sounds right to me." Well, he proceeds to go raise a shitload of money, but he did stuff that I didn't think he should do, but it worked.
这对我来说听起来不错。”好吧，他继续筹集大量资金，但他做了一些我认为他不应该做的事情，但它确实有效。
I liked that in him.
我喜欢他的这一点。
A lot of people would say, "Well, doesn't it bother you that he didn't listen to you that much?" No, because he was disagreeable, and he was the right kind of disagreeable.
很多人会说：“那么，他没那么听你的话，你不觉得困扰吗？”不，因为他很令人讨厌，而且他就是那种令人讨厌的人。
He didn't say, "Pound the sand.
他没有说：“捣碎沙子。
I'm not listening to you.
我不听你的。
La-la-la, I'm covering my ears." He listened and he understood what I thought the truth was.
啦啦啦，我捂住耳朵了。”他听了，他明白了我所认为的真相。
He just believed a different truth than I did, and that's fine.
他只是相信与我不同的真理，那很好。
My job as the investor is to just help them see what my perception of the truth is, honestly.
作为投资者，我的工作就是帮助他们诚实地了解我对事实的看法。
If they decide to go in a different direction, that's great.
如果他们决定朝不同的方向前进，那就太好了。
They're the founder, they're the genius.
他们是创始人，他们是天才。
Mike Maples, Jr.: All of them, not all of them, but a whole lot of them are more disagreeable than history lets on.
小迈克·梅普尔斯（Mike Maples, Jr.）：所有的人，不是全部，但他们中的很多人比历史所表现的更令人讨厌。
My dad worked for Bill Gates when he was at Microsoft.
我父亲在微软工作时为比尔·盖茨工作。
Bill Gates is not a warm and fuzzy dude.
比尔·盖茨并不是一个热情而毛茸茸的家伙。
He was tough.
他很坚强。
He was a hard ass.
他是个硬汉。
But great people are inspired by hard asses, as long as the hard ass makes ...
但伟大的人会受到硬驴的启发，只要硬驴能让......
You meld the steel in the heat of the flame of high standards.
您在高标准火焰的热量下熔化钢铁。
Sometimes people can't work for Elon Musk for very long, but almost everybody I know who's worked for him really respects him, because he has high standards, and he's not trying to win friends and influence people.
有时人们不能为埃隆·马斯克工作很长时间，但几乎所有我认识的为他工作过的人都非常尊重他，因为他有很高的标准，而且他并不试图赢得朋友和影响别人。
He's trying to land on Mars, and if you're going to land on Mars, you got to be disagreeable some of the time.
他正试图登陆火星，如果你要登陆火星，你有时会感到不愉快。
I just find that that is a trait that is under-appreciated in these great founders quite often.
我只是发现，这些伟大创始人的这一特质常常被低估。
Lenny Rachitsky: What you just shared reminds me of a recent podcast episode of Jeffrey Pfeffer, which I know you listened to, where he talks about the rules of power, how people acquire power, and the last rule is, "Understand that once you have acquired power, what you did to get it will be forgiven, forgotten, or both." Your Bill Gates example, I think, is a good one where people look at him as such a nice dude when, as you said, he was not so nice a lot of the time.
Lenny Rachitsky：你刚才分享的内容让我想起了 Jeffrey Pfeffer 最近的一集播客，我知道你听过，他在其中谈到了权力规则，人们如何获得权力，最后一条规则是，“要明白，一旦你获得了权力，你为获得权力所做的一切都会被原谅、忘记，或者两者兼而有之。”我认为，你的比尔·盖茨的例子是一个很好的例子，人们认为他是一个好人，而正如你所说，他很多时候并不那么好。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Here's the other thing, and by the way, I listened to that episode from beginning to the end, and I thought it was fantastic, because the next thing I want to do is go to Professor Pfeffer and say, "Can we cast these seven principles through a pattern breaking lens?" Let's assume you're a startup capitalist, you're not at a company, because changing the future requires you to acquire a different form of power than you would, say, in an organization.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：这是另一件事，顺便说一句，我从头到尾听了那一集，我认为这太棒了，因为我想做的下一件事就是去找普费弗教授说：“我们可以通过打破模式的镜头来投射这七个原则吗？”假设您是一位初创资本家，而不是一家公司，因为改变未来需要您获得与组织中不同形式的权力。
But as I was listening to it, I was like, "These principles all apply to pattern breakers, all of them, every single one." The other one is that I think that he said, "Not everybody's going to like you.
但当我听到它时，我想，“这些原则都适用于模式破坏者，所有这些，每一个。”另一个是我认为他说：“不是每个人都会喜欢你。
If you want to be liked, get a dog.
如果你想被人喜欢，就养只狗吧。
But if you want power, there's certain things you're going to have to do and reconcile yourself with."
但如果你想要权力，你就必须做某些事情并与自己和解。”
Mike Maples, Jr.: Acquisition of power has this notion of you've got to wield the carrot and the stick.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：获取权力意味着你必须同时使用胡萝卜和大棒。
If all you do is wield the carrot, you won't create enough activation energy for people to move to that different future.
如果你所做的只是挥舞胡萝卜，你将无法创造足够的激活能量让人们走向不同的未来。
Sometimes you do have to use the stick, and sometimes you have to realize that people are going to use your desire to fit in against you.
有时你确实必须使用大棒，有时你必须意识到人们会利用你的欲望来反对你。
They're going to say, "Oh, you can't do that.
他们会说：“哦，你不能那样做。
That's illegal," or, "You can't do that, that's unethical," or, "You can't do that.
这是非法的，”或者，“你不能那样做，那是不道德的，”或者，“你不能那样做。
You're being some tech bro, bad guy." A lot of what I find with the founders I work with, ironically, before they win, they have to have the courage to be disliked because people don't like their idea.
你是个技术兄弟，坏人。”讽刺的是，我在与我共事的创始人身上发现很多事情，在他们获胜之前，他们必须有勇气被人不喜欢，因为人们不喜欢他们的想法。
They think it's stupid, lonely.
他们认为这是愚蠢的、孤独的。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But then after they win, it's even worse, because everybody says you cheated or you're a bad guy or you broke the rules or you're too powerful, or, "Who gave you the right to decide what the future should be?" They get criticized unfairly in the other direction after they succeed, but in the end, it comes with the territory.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：但在他们获胜后，情况就更糟了，因为每个人都说你作弊，或者你是坏人，或者你违反了规则，或者你太强大了，或者，“谁给了你决定未来的权利？”他们在成功后会受到另一个方面的不公平批评，但最终，它会随着领土而来。
It's part of the job description, unfortunately.
不幸的是，这是工作描述的一部分。
Lenny Rachitsky: Yeah.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：是的。
Elon goes through a lot of that.
埃隆经历过很多这样的事情。
Something I saw you tweet recently along these same lines is that most successful companies, there's tons of chaos internally, and everyone working at these companies is like, "This place a mess.
我最近看到你在推特上说了同样的话，那就是大多数成功的公司，内部都有大量的混乱，在这些公司工作的每个人都会说，“这个地方一团糟。
How is this even working?" But your finding is that that's very common and normal.
这到底是怎么运作的？”但你的发现是，这是非常普遍和正常的。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Especially in startups.
Mike Maples, Jr.：尤其是在初创企业中。
There have been times when I've said things like, "Execution doesn't matter," and people can misinterpret that.
有时我会说“执行并不重要”，但人们可能会误解这一点。
When I mean execution doesn't matter, I don't mean people shouldn't get things done or people shouldn't say, "What did you do this week?" But when I think of execution in a corporate sense, corporations in theory should always win.
当我说执行力并不重要时，我并不是说人们不应该把事情做好，或者人们不应该说：“你这周做了什么？”但当我考虑企业意义上的执行时，理论上企业应该总是获胜。
They have big management team, they have more experienced people, they have customers, suppliers, partners, brand, so a startup never beats a big company by executing better than the big company.
他们拥有庞大的管理团队，拥有更有经验的人员，拥有客户、供应商、合作伙伴、品牌，因此初创公司永远不会通过比大公司更好的执行来击败大公司。
Startup wins over the big company because it proposes a radically different future, disorients the incumbent, and sort of chaotically moves people to that different future.
初创公司之所以能战胜大公司，是因为它提出了一个完全不同的未来，让现任者迷失了方向，并以某种混乱的方式将人们带向了不同的未来。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But like every startup I've ever seen, on the inside was wild.
Mike Maples, Jr.：但就像我见过的每家初创公司一样，其内部也很疯狂。
It was like a capitalist mutation.
这就像资本主义的突变。
It was trying to find a beaked finch in the Galapagos Islands that's never been discovered before, and it's all ambiguous all the time, and people are arguing about what the right direction is all the time.
它试图在加拉帕戈斯群岛寻找一种以前从未被发现的喙雀，但一直都是模棱两可的，人们一直在争论什么是正确的方向。
It's just messy, but movements are messy.
只是乱了，动作也乱了。
That's what comes with the territory.
这就是领土带来的。
A friend of mine, Robin Roberts, once said, "Make your mess your message." It's so true.
我的一个朋友罗宾·罗伯茨曾经说过：“让你的混乱成为你的信息。”这是真的。
Lenny Rachitsky: Oh, man.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：哦，伙计。
That's so funny.
太有趣了。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
I have a couple more questions before we wrap up.
在结束之前我还有几个问题。
Before we leave the actions categories, is there anything else you think is important to share, any other lessons that we haven't touched on?
在我们离开行动类别之前，您认为还有什么值得分享的重要内容，或者我们还没有涉及的任何其他经验教训吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: I think, Lenny, I don't know if you've consciously tried to do this or not, but on some level you've created a movement.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我想，莱尼，我不知道你是否有意识地尝试这样做，但在某种程度上，你已经创造了一场运动。
No one has ever engaged people with product management sensibilities the way you have.
从来没有人像您一样与具有产品管理敏感性的人打交道。
I go to your site, and you even have merch for product managers.
我访问你的网站，你甚至还有产品经理的商品。
I'm like, "What?" I imagine the early posts that you wrote, it probably felt kind of lonely.
我想，“什么？”我想你写的早期帖子可能会让人感到有点孤独。
It's probably, "I wonder if anybody's even reading this stuff," but it starts to accumulate.
它可能是，“我想知道是否有人读过这些东西”，但它开始积累。
More people start to read it, more people start to tell their friends about it, and now all of a sudden, it kind of becomes a thing.
越来越多的人开始阅读它，越来越多的人开始告诉他们的朋友，现在突然间，它变成了一件事情。
In many ways, Lenny's podcast and Lenny's blog and Lenny's newsletter are all examples of facets of this movement that you're creating.
在很多方面，莱尼的播客、莱尼的博客和莱尼的时事通讯都是您正在创建的这一运动的各个方面的例子。
Mike Maples, Jr.: But your movement is not just about the stories you tell or the guests you have or the podcasts or the write-ups you have.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：但你的运动不仅仅是关于你讲述的故事、你的嘉宾、你的播客或你的文章。
You have a point of view about the centrality of a product manager in companies and in businesses and in the future, and honoring that the way Nike honors athletes.
您对产品经理在公司、企业和未来的中心地位有自己的看法，并像耐克尊重运动员一样尊重这一点。
The point of view is the movement, just like the point of view is the company when it's a startup.
观点就是运动，就像初创公司的观点就是公司一样。
This point of view is the story.
这个观点就是故事。
It's the place that people want to go that got animated by the beliefs that you share.
这是人们想去的地方，因为你所分享的信念而充满活力。
Lenny Rachitsky: Fascinating and flattered.
Lenny Rachitsky：令人着迷且受宠若惊。
I have no intention of starting a movement.
我无意发起一场运动。
I could see what you're saying.
我能明白你在说什么。
That sounds like a lot of stress, but I guess-
听起来压力很大，但我想——
Mike Maples, Jr.: I think you already have, whether you met to or not, I think you have.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我认为你已经做到了，无论你是否见过面，我认为你已经做到了。
Lenny Rachitsky: All right.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：好的。
Well, I do have swag, and if you're on YouTube, this is our best-selling item, a hat that just says "Product Manager." People love it.
嗯，我确实有赃物，如果你在 YouTube 上，这是我们最畅销的商品，一顶上面写着“产品经理”的帽子。人们喜欢它。
I have it in the background.
我在后台有它。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Can I wear one if I'm still not one?
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：如果我还没有出生，我可以戴一件吗？
Lenny Rachitsky: Absolutely.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：当然。
You've been one, and so forever product manager.
你曾经是、并且永远是产品经理。
I'll send you a hat.
我送你一顶帽子。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Hopefully, I can get grandfathered in for my past.
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：希望我的过去能够得到尊重。
Lenny Rachitsky: Forever.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：永远。
Forever PM Mike.
永远的总理迈克。
Okay.
好的。
I just have one more question, and this is around your last chapter, which I think is going to be useful to a lot of people.
我还有一个问题，这是关于你的最后一章的，我认为这对很多人都有用。
Your last chapter is about how to apply a lot of these principles to working at a company.
你的最后一章是关于如何将这些原则应用到公司工作中的。
Say you're not a founder, a lot of these principles still apply.
假设您不是创始人，其中许多原则仍然适用。
What advice can you share for people, say, a PM, instead of large company to help them find pattern-breaking ideas, big ideas within the company?
您可以向人们（例如产品经理）而不是大公司分享什么建议，以帮助他们在公司内找到打破模式的想法、伟大的想法？
Mike Maples, Jr.: The first thing I think is important to understand is that everything about a value delivery system when you're doing a pattern-breaking idea is different from a normal idea.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我认为首先要理解的是，当你在做一个打破模式的想法时，价值交付系统的一切都与正常想法不同。
The mistake that most companies make is they say, "I've got this new pattern-breaking idea.
大多数公司犯的错误是他们说：“我有了这个打破模式的新想法。
It needs to be a third of my business in 24 months or three years or whatever." Bad strategy.
它需要在 24 个月或三年之内达到我业务的三分之一。”糟糕的策略。
Let's take a company like, say, Apple, when they did the iPhone.
让我们以苹果公司为例，他们当时推出了 iPhone。
The iPhone was a whole new thing.
iPhone 是一个全新的事物。
It was driven by, in this case, Steve Jobs the founder.
在这种情况下，它是由创始人史蒂夫乔布斯推动的。
You couldn't reconcile it with the original business of the Mac and not really even the iPod.
你无法将它与 Mac 的原始业务调和起来，甚至与 iPod 的业务也无法调和。
You had to treat it as a totally different thing, and that's really hard for companies.
你必须将其视为完全不同的事物，这对公司来说确实很难。
Companies make the mistake of engaging in a pattern-breaking product, but they make it too visible or it's a career-limiting move if it fails.
公司犯了一个错误，那就是开发一种打破模式的产品，但他们把它做得太明显，或者如果失败的话，这将是一个限制职业发展的举动。
Pattern-breaking products have different types of leadership, different types of go-to-market motion as we've described, different types of ideas, different risk profiles.
打破模式的产品具有不同类型的领导力、不同类型的上市行动（正如我们所描述的）、不同类型的想法、不同的风险状况。
Instead of saying this company or this business is too big to fail, I need to make small bets that can fail a lot.
我不是说这家公司或这家企业太大而不能倒，而是需要做一些可能会失败很多次的小赌注。
The same is true with mergers and acquisitions.
并购也是如此。
If I buy a company, I need to ask, am I buying a pattern-breaking company to break the pattern of my business and go in a radically new direction, or am I buying a company that's an extension of my current business?
如果我购买一家公司，我需要问，我购买一家打破模式的公司是为了打破我的业务模式并走向一个全新的方向，还是我购买一家是我当前业务的延伸的公司？
Neither is wrong per se, but the way you think about risk varies enormously.
两者本身都没有错，但人们对风险的看法差异很大。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Some examples that I have in the book of good examples are the iPhone, Steve Jobs, AWS, but some people objected.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我在《好例子》一书中提到的一些例子是 iPhone、史蒂夫·乔布斯、AWS，但有些人表示反对。
They said, "Okay, that's easy for the founders to do because they're founders of the company, and that's Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos." The other example I like is Skunkworks with Lockheed.
他们说：“好吧，这对创始人来说很容易做到，因为他们是公司的创始人，那就是史蒂夫·乔布斯和杰夫·贝佐斯。”我喜欢的另一个例子是洛克希德公司的 Skunkworks。
When they created a fighter plane in a very short amount of time, and that's how they did it, they had an organization totally separate from the main organization, somebody with absolute power, and tried to make it not visible, tried to make it be separate.
当他们在很短的时间内制造出一架战斗机时，他们就是这样做的，他们有一个与主要组织完全分离的组织，一个拥有绝对权力的人，并试图让它不可见，试图让它分离。
Because when you make it visible, you start to drift it back into the tractor beam of acting like a pattern-matching corporation.
因为当你让它变得可见时，你就开始将它带回到像模式匹配公司一样的牵引光束中。
Another good example back in the day was Don Estridge at IBM when they did the IBM PC, but it's almost always an autonomous business headed by a maverick, and you're trying to do something discreetly different rather than a better version of what you've already.
另一个很好的例子是 IBM 的 Don Estridge，当时他们开发了 IBM PC，但它几乎总是一个由特立独行者领导的自主业务，你试图做一些谨慎的不同的事情，而不是对你已经做的事情做一个更好的版本。
Lenny Rachitsky: This aligns very well with, we had two recent podcast episodes talking to PMs at companies that are doing zero-to-one stuff, Mihika and Tanguy.
Lenny Rachitsky：这与我们最近的两集播客节目与从事从零到一工作的公司 Mihika 和 Tanguy 的 PM 进行了交谈。
Tanguy had a really interesting tidbit along the lines you just talked about where he set up his team in a totally different time zone so that people that wanted to bug them just were sleeping during that time, and they weren't even online so that they could just focus on the work they were doing, and it worked out.
Tanguy 有一个非常有趣的花絮，就像你刚才谈到的那样，他在一个完全不同的时区建立了自己的团队，这样那些想打扰他们的人在那段时间就在睡觉，他们甚至都不在线，这样他们就可以专注于他们正在做的工作，结果成功了。
Mike Maples, Jr.: I'm mostly through that episode, and everything that I've listened to so far, I'm like, "Okay, that totally jives with what I've seen." The other person has an interesting take on this is Vinod Kochblok.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我基本上听完了那一集，以及到目前为止我听到的所有内容，我想，“好吧，这与我所看到的完全吻合。”另一个人对此有一个有趣的看法，他是 Vinod Kochblok。
Vinod basically thinks that what companies should do is take some portion of their profits, let's say 10% of your profits, and invest it in projects likely to fail, but with wildly asymmetric upside if they succeed, and then make them not visible to the mothership in the early inning.
维诺德基本上认为，公司应该做的就是拿出一部分利润，比如说你的利润的 10%，并将其投资于可能失败的项目，但如果成功的话，上行空间会非常不对称，然后让它们在早期阶段不被母舰发现。
It's your willingness to fail that lets you have breakthrough success.
正是你愿意失败，才让你取得突破性的成功。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Any coin that says can't lose bad on one side of it might as well say, can't win big on the other side.
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：任何一面说不能输得太惨的硬币，也可能说，在另一面不能赢大钱。
It's your willingness to fail, and it comes back to departing from the consensus, right?
这是你愿意失败，然后又会背离共识，对吗？
It's your willingness to fail that enables success, and every time you depart from the consensus, there's a chance you'll be wrong, you'll underperform the consensus, but it's your willingness to do that that lets you outperform it.
正是你愿意失败才能成功，每次你偏离共识时，你就有可能犯错，你的表现将低于共识，但正是你愿意这样做才让你超越共识。
But there's no shortcuts, right?
但没有捷径，对吧？
The coin that says can't lose, says can't win on the other side, and lose big says, win big on the other side.
硬币一面说不能输，一面说不能赢，输大了就说另一面赢大。
Lenny Rachitsky: Mike, this episode is so full of nuggets, tactical advice, amazing stories, everything I was hoping it would be.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：迈克，这一集充满了金块、战术建议、精彩的故事，以及我所希望的一切。
Before we get to our very exciting lightening round, is there anything else that you think might be useful to share with folks that are trying to start a company or are already along with a company?
在我们开始令人兴奋的闪电轮之前，您认为还有什么可以与正在尝试创办公司或已经加入公司的人们分享的吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的。
The one thing I would say is that it's a lonely existence, and it's okay if most people don't like your idea.
我想说的一件事是，这是一种孤独的存在，如果大多数人不喜欢你的想法也没关系。
It doesn't mean you're right, but it sure as heck doesn't mean you're wrong either.
这并不意味着你是对的，但也不意味着你是错的。
There's not enough people in this world willing to stick their neck out for things that they believe that they see before the rest of us.
这个世界上没有足够多的人愿意为了他们认为在我们其他人之前看到的事情而冒险。
Just for what it's worth, if anybody in your audience is one of those people, you have just my utmost respect and affection.
就其价值而言，如果您的观众中有人是其中之一，我将向您致以最大的尊重和喜爱。
I hope that in those times when it's tempting to not believe, it comes with the territory every great founder has faced, and it doesn't make you wrong.
我希望，在那些让人难以相信的时代，它伴随着每一位伟大创始人都面临过的领域，并且它不会让你错。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
What an empowering, inspiring way to end it.
这是多么有力量、鼓舞人心的结束方式啊。
Mike, with that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round.
迈克，至此，我们进入了非常激动人心的闪电回合。
Are you ready?
你准备好了吗？
Lenny Rachitsky: Here we go.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：我们开始吧。
First question, what are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people?
第一个问题，您向其他人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？
Mike Maples, Jr.: A book called The Five Regrets of the Dying, Top Five Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie Ware.
小迈克·梅普尔斯 (Mike Maples, Jr.)：布朗尼·威尔 (Bronnie Ware) 写的一本名为《临终者的五件遗憾》、《临终者的五件遗憾》的书。
She was a hospice nurse, and she would talk to people in the last 90 days of their lives, and she would find out the things that they'd wish that they had done in their lives that they hadn't.
她是一名临终关怀护士，她会在人们生命的最后 90 天里与他们交谈，她会找出他们希望在生命中做过但没有做过的事情。
I always thought that that was a good book, because it reminds you about what's important, and it reminds you that it isn't going to last forever.
我一直认为那是一本好书，因为它提醒你什么是重要的，它提醒你它不会永远持续下去。
Someday, it'll be the last day.
有一天，这将是最后一天。
Mike Maples, Jr.: There's another book that I really like called Chase, Chance, and Creativity by a guy named James Austin, and I think that it's a good book because it talks about how certain people tend to attract luck more than others and actually that luck is created, you do make luck.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我真的很喜欢另一本书，名叫《追逐、机会和创造力》，作者是詹姆斯·奥斯汀，我认为这是一本好书，因为它讲述了某些人如何比其他人更容易吸引运气，而实际上，运气是创造出来的，你确实会创造运气。
I am just fascinated by this idea of luck and how it can be harnessed.
我只是对运气的想法以及如何驾驭它着迷。
I'd say those two.
我就说那两个
There's a whole bunch of them.
有一大堆。
I've always liked all of Clay Christensen's books.
我一直喜欢克莱·克里斯滕森的所有书。
The other one that I kind of liked that I read recently is by Robert Greene, The Laws of Human Nature.
我最近读到的另一本我有点喜欢的书是罗伯特·格林的《人性法则》。
I liked that one a lot as well.
我也非常喜欢那个。
Then Nancy Duarte's book, Resonate, we talked about Nancy earlier, I like that book a lot.
然后是Nancy Duarte的书，Resonate，我们之前谈到了Nancy，我非常喜欢那本书。
Lenny Rachitsky: I'm buying that first one immediately.
Lenny Rachitsky：我立即购买第一个。
That sounds incredible.
这听起来不可思议。
I need that book.
我需要那本书。
Regrets of the Dying.
临死之悔。
I found it on Amazon as you were talking, and I'm buying it.
正如你所说，我在亚马逊上发现了它，我正在购买它。
Good pick there.
那里是不错的选择。
Okay, next question.
好的，下一个问题。
Is there a favorite recent movie or TV show that you've really enjoyed?
最近有没有您真正喜欢的最喜欢的电影或电视节目？
Mike Maples, Jr.: I really liked the movie about Enzo Ferrari, and I have this huge affinity for 1960s cars, and the way that they replicated these 1960s Ferraris I just thought was magical.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我真的很喜欢关于恩佐·法拉利 (Enzo Ferrari) 的电影，而且我对 20 世纪 60 年代的汽车有着巨大的喜爱，他们复制这些 1960 年代法拉利的方式我觉得很神奇。
I thought that the guys that did the special effects and just the attention to detail I thought was just extraordinary.
我认为那些制作特效和对细节的关注的人非常棒。
Lenny Rachitsky: I have not seen it.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：我还没有看到。
Quick aside, as I was buying this book, your book was recommended on Amazon for me, so good job.
顺便说一句，当我购买这本书时，亚马逊上向我推荐了你的书，干得好。
Lenny Rachitsky: Good job, Amazon.
Lenny Rachitsky：干得好，亚马逊。
I will point people to where to find it at the end of this series of questions, but next question, is there a favorite product that you have recently discovered that you really like?
在这一系列问题的最后，我将向人们指出在哪里可以找到它，但下一个问题是，您最近发现了您真正喜欢的最喜欢的产品吗？
Mike Maples, Jr.: When I was young, before I got into computers, I had a job as a professional calligrapher, and so I really like using calligraphy pens.
Mike Maples, Jr.：当我年轻的时候，在接触计算机之前，我有一份职业书法家的工作，所以我非常喜欢使用书法笔。
Not long ago I sort of discovered the world, it had been a long time since I'd reconnected with that hobby, I discovered the world of vintage fountain pens.
不久前，我有点发现了这个世界，自从我重新拾起这个爱好以来已经很长时间了，我发现了老式钢笔的世界。
My favorite product of recent times, everybody will be like that sounds esoteric, but it's a Mont Blanc 149 first generation celluloid pen.
我最近最喜欢的产品，大家都会觉得这听起来很深奥，但它是万宝龙149第一代赛璐珞笔。
It was right after World War II, and it was the Germans coming back saying, "We've still got it." It was just a product for the ages.
第二次世界大战刚结束，德国人回来说：“我们仍然拥有它。”这只是一个多年来的产品。
It has a flexible nib.
它有一个灵活的笔尖。
Fountain pens don't work the way they used to.
钢笔不再像以前那样工作了。
They used make flexible nibs so that you could write the way scribes wrote in the 1800s and stuff.
他们使用灵活的笔尖，这样你就可以像 1800 年代抄写员那样书写。
But then people in the modern world break those nibs, and they use ballpoint pens anyway.
但现代世界的人们弄坏了这些笔尖，他们还是使用圆珠笔。
But when I use these old flexible pens from 1900 to the 1940s, they're just magical.
但当我使用这些 1900 至 20 世纪 40 年代的旧式柔性钢笔时，它们简直太神奇了。
There's just nothing like it.
没有什么比这更好的了。
Nobody's ever been able to equal that experience in modern times.
在现代，没有人能够比得上这种经历。
Lenny Rachitsky: Wow.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：哇。
I got to try one of these pens.
我必须尝试其中一支笔。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Yeah.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：是的。
I'll give you one of them so you can at least get a feel for it.
我会给你其中一个，这样你至少可以感受到它。
Lenny Rachitsky: Wow.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：哇。
I'll give you a product management hat, I'll get a pen, a beautiful pen.
我会给你一顶产品管理帽子，我会给你一支钢笔，一支漂亮的钢笔。
I think I win in this exchange.
我认为这次交流我赢了。
Two more questions.
还有两个问题。
Do you have a favorite life motto that you often repeat to yourself, share with folks that you find useful to come back to?
您是否有一条最喜欢的人生格言，您经常对自己重复，并与您认为有用的人分享？
Mike Maples, Jr.: I learned it from my dad.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：这是我从我父亲那里学到的。
It sounds simple, but it's kind of profound, "Do your best." What he meant by that is he didn't mean be the best, he meant that life is a gift.
“尽力而为”这句话听起来很简单，但意义却很深。他的意思是，他并不是要成为最好的，他的意思是生命是一份礼物。
You don't know how much time you're going to have.
你不知道你还有多少时间。
Every day is the gift of your time, and the best way to honor the gift of your time is to do your best.
每一天都是你的时间的礼物，而尊重你的时间的礼物的最好方式就是尽力而为。
There'll be times you won't be the best, but if all you did was the best, that's all you could do.
有时你不会是最好的，但如果你所做的一切都是最好的，那就是你能做的一切。
I remember one time, so I was a senior in high school, I'd already gotten into Stanford, I'm totally psyched, I'm going to go.
我记得有一次，我是一名高中生，我已经进入斯坦福大学了，我非常兴奋，我要去。
Last week of the semester of senior year, and I have a test the next day in English.
高年级学期的最后一周，第二天我有英语考试。
Mike Maples, Jr.: My dad's like, "Hey, how are you feeling about the test?" I said, "It doesn't really matter.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我爸爸说，“嘿，你对这次测试感觉怎么样？”我说：“这并不重要。
I get to drop it, and I'm going to get an A in the class, because I've got the goods, so I don't need to do well on it." He looked so disappointed at me, and he was like, "It doesn't sound like you're doing your best." What he was kind of getting at was that the people who achieve greatness, they think everything counts.
我可以放弃它，我会在班上得到 A，因为我已经有能力了，所以我不需要在这方面做得很好。”他看起来对我很失望，他说：“听起来你并没有尽力而为。”他的意思是，那些取得伟大成就的人认为一切都很重要。
I always got a lot from that with him.
和他在一起我总是受益匪浅。
There'd be other times where I wouldn't do so well on something, and he would say, "Well, sometimes you make a careless mistake, but you did your best.
有时我在某件事上做得不太好，他会说：“好吧，有时你会犯一个粗心的错误，但你已经尽力了。
That's all you could have done."
这就是你所能做的一切。”
Mike Maples, Jr.: The idea of doing your best I find to be very profound, and it causes you to realize that the best way to show up in the world is to be your best self.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：我发现尽力而为的想法非常深刻，它让你意识到出现在世界上的最好方式就是成为最好的自己。
There's only one you in this world, and the more that you can show up as your best self, you'll be impossible to compete with, you won't feel the need to copy other folks, you won't feel the need to compare yourself to other people.
这个世界上只有一个你，你越能表现出最好的自己，你就无法与别人竞争，你就不会觉得有必要去模仿别人，你就不会觉得有必要把自己和别人比较。
You'll compare yourself instead to the idea of perfection itself and whatever that means in terms of your own ability to do your best.
相反，你会将自己与完美的想法本身以及完美意味着你自己尽力而为的能力进行比较。
To me, that's probably the most important life lesson I've learned.
对我来说，这可能是我学到的最重要的人生课程。
Lenny Rachitsky: Wow.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：哇。
As you said, very simple but very powerful.
正如你所说，非常简单但非常强大。
Mike Maples, Jr.: It's powerful when you truly internalize it, right?
Mike Maples, Jr.：当你真正内化它时，它会很强大，对吗？
When you take it beyond an aphorism, it's very powerful.
当你把它理解为超越格言时，它的力量就非常强大。
Lenny Rachitsky: It reminds me of your partner, Anne Marie Coe's advice that she got from her dad, which is I think maybe the opposite that she shared on Tim Ferris' podcast of just always do a world-class job at everything you do.
兰尼·拉奇茨基：这让我想起了你的伴侣安妮·玛丽·科从她父亲那里得到的建议，我认为这可能与她在蒂姆·费里斯的播客上分享的相反，即永远在你所做的每一件事上都做到世界一流。
You're doing a world-class job.
你正在做世界一流的工作。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
Okay, I'm going to skip the last question just to end on that, because that was way too beautiful to Sully with another question.
好吧，我要跳过最后一个问题来结束这个问题，因为对于 Sully 来说，另一个问题太漂亮了。
Just to give folks a chance to figure out where to buy your book, when it's available, how to find it, what they should know, do share.
只是为了让人们有机会弄清楚在哪里可以购买您的书，何时有售，如何找到它，他们应该知道什么，并分享。
Mike Maples, Jr.: I guess there's two main ways, right?
Mike Maples, Jr.：我想有两种主要方法，对吗？
Well, we've got a Substack.
好吧，我们有一个子堆栈。
Not everybody's got to buy books, right, so there's patternbreakers.substack.com.
不是每个人都必须买书，对吧，所以有patternbreakers.substack.com。
Then I have a site, patternbreakers.com, but you can also get the book on Amazon or anywhere.
然后我有一个网站，patternbreakers.com，但你也可以在亚马逊或任何地方获得这本书。
It's already available for pre-order, I think.
我想它已经可以预订了。
Lenny Rachitsky: Amazing.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：太棒了。
I usually ask people how listeners can be useful to you.
我通常会问人们听众如何对你有用。
I imagine it's check out the book, share what you've learned.
我想应该是看看这本书，分享你所学到的东西。
Mike Maples, Jr.: My main goal is for the ideas to spread and to help people.
Mike Maples, Jr.：我的主要目标是传播想法并帮助人们。
Hopefully, it will have achieved that goal.
希望它能够实现这一目标。
But just anything that people can do to help spread the ideas.
但人们可以做任何事情来帮助传播这些想法。
Co-conspirators wanted.
通缉同谋。
Lenny Rachitsky: I love these episodes where somebody like you spends hundreds of thousands of hours analyzing data and history and startups and talking to founders and just synthesizing all the things you've learned into a couple of hours.
Lenny Rachitsky：我喜欢这些情节，像你这样的人花费数十万小时分析数据、历史和初创公司，与创始人交谈，然后将你学到的所有东西综合到几个小时内。
I love this.
我喜欢这个。
Thank you, Mike, so much for being here and for sharing all this wisdom with us.
迈克，非常感谢您来到这里并与我们分享所有这些智慧。
Mike Maples, Jr.: Hey.
小迈克·梅普尔斯：嘿。
Well, thanks, Lenny.
好吧，谢谢，莱尼。
It was an honor to be on your show, and it's been fun to see you do so well.
很荣幸能参加你的节目，看到你表现得这么好也很有趣。
Lenny Rachitsky: Thanks, Mike.
莱尼·拉奇茨基：谢谢，迈克。
It's an honor to have you on the show.
很荣幸您能参加这个节目。
Again, the book is called Pattern Breakers: Why Some Start-Ups Change the Future.
同样，这本书的名字是《模式打破者：为什么一些初创企业改变未来》。
Mike, thank you so much for being here.
迈克，非常感谢你来到这里。
Bye, everyone.: Thank you so much for listening.
再见，大家：非常感谢您的聆听。
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如果您发现这很有价值，您可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您最喜欢的播客应用程序上订阅该节目。
Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast.
另外，请考虑给我们评分或留下评论，因为这确实有助于其他听众找到播客。
You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.
您可以在 lennyspodcast.com 上找到所有过去的剧集或了解有关该节目的更多信息。
See you in the next episode.
下一集见。